Adoptive parents of 14 handicapped children murdered

[desmom]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-bk-couple-who-adopted-12-kids-slain-071009,0,6885911.story

The couple were the parents of 16 children -- 12 adopted....

The couple owned several local businesses and were known for their generosity taking in children with disabilities and from troubled backgrounds.

[desmom]

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/jul/10/fla-couple-who-adopted-12-children-found-slain/news-breaking/

The Billingses were featured in a Christmas Day story in the Pensacola News Journal in 2005. At the time, the couple were the proud parents of 16 children. Twelve were adopted — among them, children of drug users, children who were sexually abused and children with developmental disabilities. Six of the 12 had Down syndrome. Two had died.

Pensacola News Journal, Dec. 25, 2005, article about the Billingses:
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090710/NEWS01/907100342

[desmom]

This is so sad. They sound like they were very giving people. I hope LE can get some quality photos off the security cameras.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-bk-couple-who-adopted-12-kids-slain-071009,0,6885911.story

The couple were the parents of 16 children -- 12 adopted....

The couple owned several local businesses and were known for their generosity taking in children with disabilities and from troubled backgrounds.

How very sad. I hope that this had nothing to do with any parent of a child from a "troubled background".


Poor kids!

[abcd]

I am disgusted when I hear stuff like this. It is getting worse and worse. The problem???? People have lost the core values in life like love, God and family respect. I pray for the healing of everyone impacted by this horrible crime

[airportwoman]

How very sad. I hope that this had nothing to do with any parent of a child from a "troubled background".


Poor kids!

Or that the parents themselves were involved in something unsavory.

There is a couple in my area who had adopted a whole herd of hard-to-place children, and everyone knows it's just for the money from the state. :cursing: Those kids would probably still be better off in foster care than in this home; the "parents" use the money for necessities like Caribbean cruises for themselves, and leave the kids alone on the premise that the older kids will look after the younger ones. Of course, the older kids have wild parties, and anyone who cares about their children has long since declared this property off limits.

[Kip]

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090710/NEWS01/907100327

This link has a picture of the van that was at the residence about the time of the murders. It's a pretty good picture. Surely someone will recognize it.

[desmom]

Killings have big impact on small community
The Billings family touched many in their rural Beulah neighborhood
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090711/NEWS01/907110323/1006/NEWS01

Questions mount in Billings slayings
Few answers a day after couple shot to death
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090711/NEWS01/907110322/1006

[n/t]

Wow so sad. :sad:

I wonder if the video cameras were installed recently.

[n/t]

I completely agree, KIP.

An unusual vehicle - a red old 15 passenger van.

Very sad story.

I wonder if the van belonged to them? Police are not releasing much and rightfully so but this is an unusual and probably rare vehicle.

Also, none of the children in the house were harmed. Thank God but it makes me wonder if one of the older kids was involved. :crying:

[Kip]

I don't think the van was theirs. Reading some of the comments left on local newspapers, where many of the posters knew the family at least by sight, none mentioned the van being theirs. Also, the van is apparently 25-30 years old and beat up -- judging by the picture of the family's property, it doesn't look like something they'd own.

Someone on one of those boards speculated that the family has had so many people in the house to help with the kids over the years that one of them may have talked about what a nice house it is and someone got the idea that it would be worth robbing.

I don't know .... robbing a house at 7 pm seems like an odd time to pull something like that off. It seems that if one planned to do something like this, you'd wait and do it after dark, and when the residents were asleep.

[Adalena935]

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/jul/10/fla-couple-who-adopted-12-children-found-slain/news-breaking/

The Billingses were featured in a Christmas Day story in the Pensacola News Journal in 2005. At the time, the couple were the proud parents of 16 children. Twelve were adopted — among them, children of drug users, children who were sexually abused and children with developmental disabilities. Six of the 12 had Down syndrome. Two had died.

Pensacola News Journal, Dec. 25, 2005, article about the Billingses:
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090710/NEWS01/907100342

I remember this story. This is so awful. How can people be so cruel.

[Adalena935]

Any reports of anything actually being stolen?

I would look hard at the bio kids.

That's what I was wondering. Of the stories I've read little has been said about motive or if anything was taken. Beyond tragic. I saw them on tv when the story was done about them adopting so many children. There were also at least one magazine article at the time. So many children depending on them. Thank heavens the children at home at the time were unharmed. I too would imagine there were a lot of people the couple interacted with over the years, including some of the foster children they raised. LE has a huge investigative job on their hands. Makes you want to cry.

[n/t]

I don't think the van was theirs. Reading some of the comments left on local newspapers, where many of the posters knew the family at least by sight, none mentioned the van being theirs. Also, the van is apparently 25-30 years old and beat up -- judging by the picture of the family's property, it doesn't look like something they'd own.

Someone on one of those boards speculated that the family has had so many people in the house to help with the kids over the years that one of them may have talked about what a nice house it is and someone got the idea that it would be worth robbing.

I don't know .... robbing a house at 7 pm seems like an odd time to pull something like that off. It seems that if one planned to do something like this, you'd wait and do it after dark, and when the residents were asleep.

The reason I thought the van might belong to them was because it was a 15 seater. Someone with a big family like theirs would need one. I didn't realize it was 25-30 years old.

I wonder if whoever did this thought the parents wouldn't be home and that's why they went in at 7 pm?

Do we know if they were wearing masks or something to hide their faces?

[airportwoman]

I also find it interesting that only the parents were killed, and not the children.

As for the media covering families like this, the family in my area has been on TV and in the news, and the Sueppels were similarly profiled. If you don't remember, Steve Sueppel of Iowa City, Iowa beat his wife and four adopted Korean children (one autistic, another on dialysis) to death with a baseball bat before ramming his van into a highway overpass abutment; the van exploded and he was nearly cremated.

So, whenever I hear stories like this, I'm always skeptical.

[airportwoman]

I just came from a website where there were posters who knew the family, either personally or through special needs support groups. They said that the parents were very kind, generous, sincere people, but due to the location of the house and that none of the children were harmed (physically, anyway), it looks like some kind of targeted hit.

There can't be too many red 15-passenger vans out there.

:rose:

[Kip]

[snipped]...
Do we know if they were wearing masks or something to hide their faces?

I don't know. A couple of the posters on the newspaper site said the three perps were white, but don't know if video showed that or if any of the kids saw them.

The stories say the three broke in coming in different doors. You'd think at 7 pm the family might be scattered throughout the house (some in the kitchen, some in the family room, some in bedrooms, some in bathrooms) and some of the kids might have seen them.

Those poor kids.... :crying:

[withay]

The only problem with it being someone who had previously in the home is that it was well known that they had cameras monitoring many areas of the home.
I am also frequently skeptical of motives when someone adopts a large number of children. But from all that has been written about this family, it sounds like they were well off. The children had bedroom "suites" with bathrooms and did not wear "hand-me-downs", not that there is anything wrong with that. It just does not seem like either parent had any ulterior motive.
There has got to be a special place in Hell for some people who do things like this; making all of those children orphans at once!

[Amy S.]

I will be glad when they get this case solved. What could the possible motive be?

This slaying almost sounds like a "hit." (Except for that crummy get away vehicle.)

[airportwoman]

I also wonder if whoever did this was someone known to the family, and that's how they got into the house.

[GentleBreeze]

I just came from a website where there were posters who knew the family, either personally or through special needs support groups. They said that the parents were very kind, generous, sincere people, but due to the location of the house and that none of the children were harmed (physically, anyway), it looks like some kind of targeted hit.

There can't be too many red 15-passenger vans out there.

:rose:

The first thing I thought of is... who would need a 15 passenger van?

I really don't see this done by hit men. If the conspirator told them to go there they would have known all about the cameras and surveillance system, imo.

Home invasions have just become so dangerous lately showing no one is safe, no matter where they live.

imo

[desmom]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=8059867&page=1 reporting it was a red, late-1970s or early-'80s model van and authorities want to question three white males seen leaving the scene.

[Kip]

Don't know what it might mean, but someone on the newspaper site thought the van looked liked the old social services van.

I don't think a conspirator told them to go there, I was more thinking along the lines of someone in casual conversation mentioning what a nice house/estate these people have, and somebody hatching some crazy scheme based on that vague information.

[AJandTam]

Hmm interesting story. The van does not belong to the couple, I don't think because of the fact that the police are showing it..and leaving the impression that they have no idea who it belongs too. If they did, I think the articles would say so. I"ve seen vans like that around here. They are usually full of illegal immigrants. So that's an angle to look at, IMHO. It seems to me that whomever did this, didn't seem to know about the camera's. Why are they not showing the faces of these people if they have them on camera?? All i've seen so far is the van pic's..

[Kip]

[snipped] .... Why are they not showing the faces of these people if they have them on camera?? All i've seen so far is the van pic's..

I've been wondering about that too. The perps have been described as white. The only thing that makes sense to me is that LE knows who these guys are and for some reason think releasing the info to the public will be counterproductive.

But I would think these guys would be considered armed and dangerous and if LE has good images or descriptions, the public should be warned.

[wondering?]

This am I saw the surveillance video and saw some men running to the van and driving away. Couldn't see their race although with the way Police can enhance the video, they probably know for sure.
The van looked kind of distinctive, so someone will recognize it!

What a sad story!

[R~O~S]

This was just a blurb on MSNBC and I've been looking for a link to support ever since I heard it. Two "persons of interest" being questioned, a third is sought and believed to still be in the area:

http://www.northescambia.com/?p=9357

The sheriff’s department then questioned the registered owner of the van, but that person is not a suspect in the case. He said the van was being used a family member of that person. That family member and another person were being questioned by deputies Saturday afternoon.

A third person seen in surveillance video from the home has not been located, Morgan said.

[desmom]

Two questioned in killings of Florida couple
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/11/Florida.couple.killed/


Cops Find Van as Kids Cope With Killings
Kids Safe With Relatives; Sheriff Believes People Who Killed Couple Were Experienced
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=8059867&page=1

[AJandTam]

I've been wondering about that too. The perps have been described as white. The only thing that makes sense to me is that LE knows who these guys are and for some reason think releasing the info to the public will be counterproductive.

But I would think these guys would be considered armed and dangerous and if LE has good images or descriptions, the public should be warned.

Hi Kip. I read down a bit further in this thread. Seems they did find the van and now know who had the van. Kind of a wierd story all around. As this sounds like whomever was there for one reason and one reason only.. To kill those people. I haven't heard anything about anything being taken, have you? The parents were killed in thier bedroom, so it sounds like they didn't spook robbers or anything. Although, in that house, it seems like there would have been to many people there to want to rob the place.. One thought I have.. As far as the police not showing the faces of the guys who did this. Can they show faces like that of minors?? Could it be that the guys who did this were under the age of 18 and this is why they didn't show the faces even IF these boys are dangerous.. ?? Later articles say they think these boys are experienced. Wow..

Guess we will know soon because it seems they've caught the guys now..

[Casspian]

nevermind.....

[VC2]

arrest has been made, presser is coming up on CNN

[iluvmua]

www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/12/florida.couple.slain/index.html

[airportwoman]

Here's another story, albeit one with fewer details.

http://news.aol.com/article/florida-couple-with-16-children-killed/566477?icid=main|main|dl1|link5|http%3A%2F%2Fnews. aol.com%2Farticle%2Fflorida-couple-with-16-children-killed%2F566477

It just occurred to me that he was 66 and she was 43. I wonder if he was married before, and there's still bad blood with his ex-wife and/or her family?

[VC2]

sherrif said that they are anxious to get the story to the public but when it comes out it will be a "humdinger" :ohmy:

[airportwoman]

sherrif said that they are anxious to get the story to the public but when it comes out it will be a "humdinger" :ohmy:

They probably want to make sure all information is correct before releasing it.

[airportwoman]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090712/ap_on_re_us/us_florida_couple_slain

This arrest isn't for murder; it's for evidence tampering.

[airportwoman]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090713/ap_on_re_us/us_florida_couple_slain

It looks like the two men arrested so far aren't the only suspects.

[desmom]

Two charged with murder
3rd man held on related charges; more suspects sought
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/907130326

[VC2]

As per CNN, 2 arrests for murder, 1 arrest for tampering with evidence.

Sounds like one of the murder suspects is the son of the older man arrested for tampering - for trying to re-paint his 15 passenger van.

Sounds like they've pretty much solved it.

No word on motive.

helsp if i read the article completely lol

[trigger]

This is so tragic. OMG when you think you heard it all. The 3rd suspect Leonard Gonzales Jr has a my space account. This was onNBC Todays show this morning. It says he is looking for his missing daugter Bella. Heres some of it. Leonard Patrick

Attention anyone that knows jennifer Herkle, william or rebecca Herkle, Katie Herkle Gonzalez or has heard of Bills mobile home repair in Sarasota Florida...My name is (Leonard) Patrick Gonzalez, I have opened this account in an attempt to communicate with my daughter, Mary Isabella Gonzalez (Bella). Today 4/19/09 she turned 8 years old. She was taken from me against my will several years ago, and I miss her very much. I have made many numerous attempts to be a part of my daughters life, but they have kept her from me...for NO GOOD REASON!!!! My wife and I have 6 wonderful children at home, but my heart is so incomplete without Bella. I will ? anyone who can help me get in touch with her. You can emailme at ?

[VC2]

this quote...its rare to see wealthy people (or any ppl) as selfless with their lives as this. (i mean as in doing something that takes up every minute of their personal lives rather than charity giving etc. which is also wonderful.

The Billings had 16 children, 12 of them adopted. The children who were there during the killings, ages 8 to 14, were interviewed by police and are now staying with other family members.

The couple married 18 years ago and each had two children from previous marriages. They eventually started adopting children with developmental disabilities and other problems.

The house was carefully designed to accommodate the children, according to a 2005 story in the Pensacola News Journal. A camera was in every room, and the driveway was long to keep the kids from running into the street. A large swimming pool behind the house was gated.

The couple told the newspaper they wanted to share their wealth with children in need, but didn't imagine their family would grow so large.

"It just happened," Melanie told the newspaper. "I just wanted to give them a better life."

[VC2]

This is so tragic. OMG when you think you heard it all. The 3rd suspect Leonard Gonzales Jr has a my space account. This was onNBC Todays show this morning. It says he is looking for his missing daugter Bella. Heres some of it. Leonard Patrick

Attention anyone that knows jennifer Herkle, william or rebecca Herkle, Katie Herkle Gonzalez or has heard of Bills mobile home repair in Sarasota Florida...My name is (Leonard) Patrick Gonzalez, I have opened this account in an attempt to communicate with my daughter, Mary Isabella Gonzalez (Bella). Today 4/19/09 she turned 8 years old. She was taken from me against my will several years ago, and I miss her very much. I have made many numerous attempts to be a part of my daughters life, but they have kept her from me...for NO GOOD REASON!!!! My wife and I have 6 wonderful children at home, but my heart is so incomplete without Bella. I will ? anyone who can help me get in touch with her. You can emailme at ?

OMG! sheriff was right about a humdinger. tragic and ... oh geeze. it sounds like he thought maybe she was with the billingses and they wouldn't say. I wonder how they ended up getting murdered bc i daresay that it started as a "rescue bella" plan. how tragically stupid...and how so very wrong.

it makes sense in a way, that would be the last house to burglarize, size, always people at home including kids, cameras which i am sure were visible since they were to protect the kids and keep an eye on them from any room in the house. Military precision..yep a target and a reason but ..

omg who would have thought it was a dad wanting his daughter back?
(not defending him, just ....horrified at the end result but if its the motive its hard not to understand the emotions)

[trigger]

Sorry I forgot the link....



http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/31887308#31887264

[n/t]

This is so tragic. OMG when you think you heard it all. The 3rd suspect Leonard Gonzales Jr has a my space account. This was onNBC Todays show this morning. It says he is looking for his missing daugter Bella. Heres some of it. Leonard Patrick

Attention anyone that knows jennifer Herkle, william or rebecca Herkle, Katie Herkle Gonzalez or has heard of Bills mobile home repair in Sarasota Florida...My name is (Leonard) Patrick Gonzalez, I have opened this account in an attempt to communicate with my daughter, Mary Isabella Gonzalez (Bella). Today 4/19/09 she turned 8 years old. She was taken from me against my will several years ago, and I miss her very much. I have made many numerous attempts to be a part of my daughters life, but they have kept her from me...for NO GOOD REASON!!!! My wife and I have 6 wonderful children at home, but my heart is so incomplete without Bella. I will ? anyone who can help me get in touch with her. You can emailme at ?



Wow. The guy has 6 kids and a missing child. I don't understand his motive. Did he think one of the children was his daughter? :confused:

[trigger]

OMG! sheriff was right about a humdinger. tragic and ... oh geeze. it sounds like he thought maybe she was with the billingses and they wouldn't say. I wonder how they ended up getting murdered bc i daresay that it started as a "rescue bella" plan. how tragically stupid...and how so very wrong.

it makes sense in a way, that would be the last house to burglarize, size, always people at home including kids, cameras which i am sure were visible since they were to protect the kids and keep an eye on them from any room in the house. Military precision..yep a target and a reason but ..

omg who would have thought it was a dad wanting his daughter back?
(not defending him, just ....horrified at the end result but if its the motive its hard not to understand the emotions)

Yes OMG. Sheriff said there is multiple motives in this case. I guess one of it being to get his daughter back. On his myspace accont it says Bella's grandmother died and the she loved Bella very much. I think the grandmother died few months ago.

[trigger]

Wow. The guy has 6 kids and a missing child. I don't understand his motive. Did he think one of the children was his daughter? :confused:

Im guessing yes one the the children is Bella, but I guess we will find out soon enough....Now if he has 6 children why couldn't he have Bella too? Somethings fishy.

[n/t]

Im guessing yes one the the children is Bella, but I guess we will find out soon enough....Now if he has 6 children why couldn't he have Bella too? Somethings fishy.

I wonder if Bella is from a previous relationship and mom took her? That's the only thing I can think of.

Still,,,like you say, something is fishy. Why would he not go through proper legal channels to get her? Good lord. Murdering an innocent couple to get to his daughter will get him in the slammer. Not only will he lose Bella but all 6 other kids.

There must be something more to this story.....:huh:

[VC2]

Im guessing yes one the the children is Bella, but I guess we will find out soon enough....Now if he has 6 children why couldn't he have Bella too? Somethings fishy.

He may have been able to parent and provide for the other kids, but if Bella was one of the special needs children, the family enviroment could have been such that CPS did not think it in her best interest to stay there. Or the mother gave her up for adoption if they had separated etc.

Not everyone is able to deal with special needs children and i can imagine a scenario where emotionally, financially and even physically Bella might have been given up or removed from the home.

just a guess

[AJandTam]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,531968,00.html

This article says the suspects went there to burgularize the place. Nothing in this article about Bella??? If this was about Bella? Then where is Bella. It's my understanding that no children were actually taken?

[jewel6]

In the picture of the family there were two girls pictured that might be bella! But why didnt they take her? unless its been so long that he doesnt even know what bella looks like. :ohmy: Will hln or fox show the arraignment today? jmo

[Barbara fl.]

i kind of thought it might be someone enraged about the foster care system.

There really doesn't seem to be anything else possible - these people are beloved, don't seem to be involved in any crimes, romantic entanglements, and it doesn't appear anything was stolen.

Very sad. They will truly leave a void.



Good morning all,

I could understand getting upset with the foster care program, most of these kids are beaten and abused just as much as from the ones whom they were taken from......BUT, to kill 2 people that were doing the finest thing anyone could ever think of doing....To my understanding, this couple opened, not only their home, but their hearts.....

What would have made him think that his daughter was in this home? And even if it turnes out that she was in there...that would have been NO reason to take their lives for caring for his child.....

I hope the DP will be in place for this crime......

[Barbara fl.]

I wonder if Bella is from a previous relationship and mom took her? That's the only thing I can think of.

Still,,,like you say, something is fishy. Why would he not go through proper legal channels to get her? Good lord. Murdering an innocent couple to get to his daughter will get him in the slammer. Not only will he lose Bella but all 6 other kids.

There must be something more to this story.....:huh:



He is going to lose a GREAT deal more then his children....

And, I too think that there is more to this story......

[Barbara fl.]

Yes OMG. Sheriff said there is multiple motives in this case. I guess one of it being to get his daughter back. On his myspace accont it says Bella's grandmother died and the she loved Bella very much. I think the grandmother died few months ago.

Did LE say if anything was stolen from the house? From the camera, I just saw them running, it didn't look like they were carrying anything...

What a terribly tragedy for this family and all these children....I hate to think about what is going to happen to them....

[airportwoman]

I've noticed that the reports say the kids were all asleep at 7pm. I find that rather unusual.

[AJandTam]

He is going to lose a GREAT deal more then his children....

And, I too think that there is more to this story......

I'm in too Barb. Especially if Bella was special needs. I know alot about that and what we know of the father verses how states deal w/special needs children. I don't think that's the case here.. long winded reasons why.. but no..

[AJandTam]

Did LE say if anything was stolen from the house? From the camera, I just saw them running, it didn't look like they were carrying anything...

What a terribly tragedy for this family and all these children....I hate to think about what is going to happen to them....

Barb, I did read that the B's had something in place for the children IF anything were to happen to the two of them. These two were incredible. Beings I have a special needs son, I can truly appreciate the kind of people they were to take these babies..

This story doesn't make sense yet.. Not to me.. They seem to have taken nothing, not a child, not stuff from the home.. Picked an usual vehicle to do a crime like this, picked a house full of people.. didn't know about the camera's before hand? what about a security system? W/austistics in the home, I know why they might not have had one active but robbers know about these things and usually have that figured out ?.. .. picked odd hours for this.. and have so many others involved..

didn't one article say the parents were asleep as were the children??

[VC2]

Did LE say if anything was stolen from the house? From the camera, I just saw them running, it didn't look like they were carrying anything...

What a terribly tragedy for this family and all these children....I hate to think about what is going to happen to them....

I think the kids who are adopted will be ok, I am certain that with their wealth and their love, the billings'es made good arrangements for them in case of their death.

I just hope there are none who are still technically foster children :(

[Kip]

AND, the parents were shot in their bed.

I was so stymied by that thought - that the children, and the parents were all in bed at 7 p.m. on a summer night that I actually discarded it as a media misunderstanding.

Can it possibly be true?

The first reports I read said the parents were in bed, but later ones said they were in their bedroom. The media gets so much wrong, who knows...

I don't find it unusual that children, especially so many with special needs, were in bed at 7. And who knows what they did that day. Maybe they spent all afternoon swimming and the kids were tired out. Maybe the kids were in bed early because they were going somewhere early the next morning.

[AJandTam]

AND, the parents were shot in their bed.

I was so stymied by that thought - that the children, and the parents were all in bed at 7 p.m. on a summer night that I actually discarded it as a media misunderstanding.

Can it possibly be true?

Me too. If they were already asleep. What time would they have gone to bed?? Combine that w/the robbers picking that time to strike.. Even more puzzling??

[AJandTam]

The first reports I read said the parents were in bed, but later ones said they were in their bedroom. The media gets so much wrong, who knows...

I don't find it unusual that children, especially so many with special needs, were in bed at 7. And who knows what they did that day. Maybe they spent all afternoon swimming and the kids were tired out. Maybe the kids were in bed early because they were going somewhere early the next morning.

If they only had one child or maybe two. I would agree w/you, but getting that many children to sleep, that early. WOW. I do think that is weird.

[Kip]

People on the websleuths board have done a lot of research. The guy arrested wrote that years ago he left to go to Costa Rica for six months or something and when he got back his wife had filed for divorce and he somehow lost his daughter in all that. He apparently has several drug arrests, so people were speculating that he's probably not all that great of a dad to his current kids. There's more...I'm just going from memory here.

[AJandTam]

People on the websleuths board have done a lot of research. The guy arrested wrote that years ago he left to go to Costa Rica for six months or something and when he got back his wife had filed for divorce and he somehow lost his daughter in all that. He apparently has several drug arrests, so people were speculating that he's probably not all that great of a dad to his current kids. There's more...I'm just going from memory here.

Hi Kip.. Interesting as you said YEARS ago.. Hmmmmmm do you know how old this Bella is now??

[GentleBreeze]

The first reports I read said the parents were in bed, but later ones said they were in their bedroom. The media gets so much wrong, who knows...

I don't find it unusual that children, especially so many with special needs, were in bed at 7. And who knows what they did that day. Maybe they spent all afternoon swimming and the kids were tired out. Maybe the kids were in bed early because they were going somewhere early the next morning.

I heard they were found in their bedroom. We don't even know if these creeps entered the home and made them go to their bedroom to keep the children away from where they were going to murder them.

I think the media hardly gets anything right, anymore. All they care about is getting the story out.

imo

[trigger]

If they only had one child or maybe two. I would agree w/you, but getting that many children to sleep, that early. WOW. I do think that is weird.

Yes that early, thats a miracle...

[trigger]

Hi Kip.. Interesting as you said YEARS ago.. Hmmmmmm do you know how old this Bella is now??


On his mysapce he said she just turned 8.

[trigger]

People on the websleuths board have done a lot of research. The guy arrested wrote that years ago he left to go to Costa Rica for six months or something and when he got back his wife had filed for divorce and he somehow lost his daughter in all that. He apparently has several drug arrests, so people were speculating that he's probably not all that great of a dad to his current kids. There's more...I'm just going from memory here.


Thanx for the info. LE says he has a long rap sheet.

[AJandTam]

On his mysapce he said she just turned 8.

Thanks for the info Trigger. This one has me scratching my head. So many odd details.. huh?

[Kip]

myspace page:

http://tinyurl.com/kkh8jt

[trigger]

Thanks for the info Trigger. This one has me scratching my head. So many odd details.. huh?

Im his my space on 7/9 the day of the murder which happen at 7pm, he writes at 455pm: Making a move on humanity. Mood: adventureous. Weird. Dont know what to make of it. LE says more arrests to follow.

[AJandTam]

Im his my space on 7/9 the day of the murder which happen at 7pm, he writes at 455pm: Making a move on humanity. Mood: adventureous. Weird. Dont know what to make of it. LE says more arrests to follow.

They said these guys were experienced in some articles. I wonder what exactly they are experienced at.. Are they possibly the vigilante types?? Even though, it seems to me they went after the wrong people. Demented minds do that... so possible. In his mind maybe he was not after his own daughter at that house but thought he was avenging for parents who lost thier children to the system. Thinks what happened to his daughter was not his fault but everyones but his?? Sadly, some people do think like that.

[n/t]

Im his my space on 7/9 the day of the murder which happen at 7pm, he writes at 455pm: Making a move on humanity. Mood: adventureous. Weird. Dont know what to make of it. LE says more arrests to follow.

I was just as confused, trigger. To me it sounds like he is referring to his ex wife's family having Bella.

This is such a mystery.

[AJandTam]

I was just as confused, trigger. To me it sounds like he is referring to his ex wife's family having Bella.

This is such a mystery.

Sounds vigilante to me.. Am I confused. He said on his page that he and his wife have 6 other children at home?? How does that work? Are the other 6 younger than Bella who is 8?? Kind of makes me think maybe he had a fling w/a women that produced a child and this is the one missing??

[Barbara fl.]

Barb, I did read that the B's had something in place for the children IF anything were to happen to the two of them. These two were incredible. Beings I have a special needs son, I can truly appreciate the kind of people they were to take these babies..

This story doesn't make sense yet.. Not to me.. They seem to have taken nothing, not a child, not stuff from the home.. Picked an usual vehicle to do a crime like this, picked a house full of people.. didn't know about the camera's before hand? what about a security system? W/austistics in the home, I know why they might not have had one active but robbers know about these things and usually have that figured out ?.. .. picked odd hours for this.. and have so many others involved..

didn't one article say the parents were asleep as were the children??



Hi AJ &Tam,

Haven't seen you around lately...hope all is OK

I just heard on HLN that when this story comes out it will be enough to make a movie with....they still are not saying all....but a news conference is scheduled for this afternoon....The eldest daughter spoke for a short time, she seems to be devistated (understandably so)...

This is truly horrible....what could ever possess someone to do such a horrble thing....It seems as though this couple have dedicated their lives to these children.....what a loss....

[AJandTam]

Hi AJ &Tam,

Haven't seen you around lately...hope all is OK

I just heard on HLN that when this story comes out it will be enough to make a movie with....they still are not saying all....but a news conference is scheduled for this afternoon....The eldest daughter spoke for a short time, she seems to be devistated (understandably so)...

This is truly horrible....what could ever possess someone to do such a horrble thing....It seems as though this couple have dedicated their lives to these children.....what a loss....

Wow, I did hear this story is a "HUMDINGER".. sounds like what when we heard the LE say that, they weren't kidding. It is horrible. I have no reason to believe that the victims here were anything but compassionate saints who were targeted by these monsters.

[trigger]

myspace page:

http://tinyurl.com/kkh8jt


wow great. Thanx for the link!

[n/t]

How many have been arrested so far? TIA

[trigger]

Wow, I did hear this story is a "HUMDINGER".. sounds like what when we heard the LE say that, they weren't kidding. It is horrible. I have no reason to believe that the victims here were anything but compassionate saints who were targeted by these monsters.

Why kill them, WHY???? So senseless. Hope they get the DP. Does anyone know if court appearance is televised? Heard one suspect was arrested in another county.

[AJandTam]

Why kill them, WHY???? So senseless. Hope they get the DP. Does anyone know if court appearance is televised? Heard one suspect was arrested in another county.

I'm really not sure Trigger. I have this feeling that this was some sort of vigilante group?? Just warped minds who found each other. The cops called them experienced but the crime seems so sloppy.. That vehicle was a bright color, a 15 passenger is rare to see someone in, so noticable, old and could have broken down w/them at the scene it was so old.. Crazy

[Barbara fl.]

Wow, I did hear this story is a "HUMDINGER".. sounds like what when we heard the LE say that, they weren't kidding. It is horrible. I have no reason to believe that the victims here were anything but compassionate saints who were targeted by these monsters.

And probably totally unsuspecting of what was to be.....

Goes to show what a crazed individual is capable of doing and one wouldn't even know to be looking out for it...

Even if one was lookong over their shoulders, it wouldn't have helped in this case....

[trigger]

How many have been arrested so far? TIA


There have been 3 arrested so far. Also Gonzales Jr changed his name. Used to be Patrick Poff. Look at comment from anon.
http://ricksblog.biz/?p=6710

[Barbara fl.]

Can't imagine what the "multiple" reasons for the killings of these wonderful humanitarians will turn out to be. And the Gonzales looking for his daughter Bella - despite being a sad and angry dad - doesn't sound like a violent criminal on his myspace page.
Speaking of "humdingers" - O/T - I'm just an old lady but I really have to say that the Sheriff of Escambia County is a major hunk, is he not?



Is there really an association with "Bella" and this couple? Has that been determined yet?


Your meaning of "Humdinger" got me rolling :lol:......

[trigger]

Alot of reading here on this site.

http://www.pnj.com/

Presser at 3pm CDT.

[VC2]

Can't imagine what the "multiple" reasons for the killings of these wonderful humanitarians will turn out to be. And the Gonzales looking for his daughter Bella - despite being a sad and angry dad - doesn't sound like a violent criminal on his myspace page.
Speaking of "humdingers" - O/T - I'm just an old lady but I really have to say that the Sheriff of Escambia County is a major hunk, is he not?

agreed!!! he sure is lol. :laugh:

i dont get the multiple motives either, or the number of ppl who seem to have been involved :(

[AZCHARGED]

Hi AJ &Tam,

Clipped...

This is truly horrible....what could ever possess someone to do such a horrble thing....It seems as though this couple have dedicated their lives to these children.....what a loss.... Bolding mine

There are, unfortunately, some people in this world who are just nothing but EVIL.

[Kip]

Maybe I just missed it before, but Gonzales SR did more than try to repaint the van - he was the driver :ohmy:

http://www.pnj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090713/NEWS01/907130326&s=d&page=3#pluckcomments

[AJandTam]

And probably totally unsuspecting of what was to be.....

Goes to show what a crazed individual is capable of doing and one wouldn't even know to be looking out for it...

Even if one was lookong over their shoulders, it wouldn't have helped in this case....

You got that right. Strangers can target you for reasons only they understand. It's a scary world out there. We don't think like they do. I can't imagine getting up one morning and planning on spending my day breaking in to someones house and killing them..

[n/t]

Did anyone watch the PC?

[AJandTam]

Can't imagine what the "multiple" reasons for the killings of these wonderful humanitarians will turn out to be. And the Gonzales looking for his daughter Bella - despite being a sad and angry dad - doesn't sound like a violent criminal on his myspace page.
Speaking of "humdingers" - O/T - I'm just an old lady but I really have to say that the Sheriff of Escambia County is a major hunk, is he not?

I hardly ever get to watch the tv anymore. Got a link for the humdinger??

This one guy w/the daughter Bella, in his head, he thinks he's been wronged. I don't know what his real story is but this is what he thinks. I wonder if it's real or if he's just someone who blames everyone but himself for his life?? .

[n/t]

Its supposed to be a 3 pm CT isn't it? In about 5-10 min?

oh ok..I thought it was 3 pm Eastern. Florida is the same time as me and it's now 4. :shrug:

[AJandTam]

It was said by David Morgan duing yeserday afternoon presser - so any of the links to vieoof the presser will have the "humdinger" (and his comments, LOL). Try CNN. Anyway - he'll be on again in a few minutes. I assume CNN will have this afternoon's press conference on their CNNLive site.

Thanks Penny. I'm looking at fox now and can't find a link to the news conference. I'll try CNN..

[n/t]

Any updates for those of us at work very much appreciated. Thanks!

[n/t]

LOL - serves ya right - Faux indeed!
So far he has said that 4 people entered the house thru an unlocked utility door on the N side of the house.... the rest came in the front. There are 6 - 8 people invloved - both black and white people. The whole thing took place in less than 10 minutes. He says we will be shocked - the multiple motivations are chilling.

OMG! Just reading the 6-8 people involved has me :scared:

Thanks for the update penny. I just can't imagine the motives. Burglary?? Did they take anything?

[AZCHARGED]

OMG! Just reading the 6-8 people involved has me :scared:

Thanks for the update penny. I just can't imagine the motives. Burglary?? Did they take anything?

Yes, but no details on anything taken. Sheriff said that burglary was a motive, but not the only motive being looked at currently. (I watched MSNBC which had quite complete coverage.)

[jewel6]

He wasnt gonna tell us the other motives. dang it. This just not make sense to me. The intruders had to know their way around that house. in and out in 4 min. If they were robbing them blind they would of taken alot longer. jmo They knew the lay out of the house and it was a big house. didnt even harm the children? just the mother and father. more arrest to come also. :confused:

[trigger]

OMG! Just reading the 6-8 people involved has me :scared:

Thanks for the update penny. I just can't imagine the motives. Burglary?? Did they take anything?

LE would not let out what was taken...Would not answer if they had alot of cash inside the house. Looking at Kmart, Wlamart. etc videos, for people buying masks, gloves clothing used in the crime.

LE showed the partial video, looking for a blue metallic or metalalic gold vehicle, possibly escalade. 2 more arrests are poss going today.

[JHP]

Poff/Gonzales, Jr is a pretty bad guy and has a history of violence - and I'll bet he doesn't take personal responsibility for that.
Hope you're watching the press conference on CNN Livestream online now. CNN dropped it on TV but I'm still watching and listening online.
But what do you think of the Sheriff, so far?

I hope you don't mind me answering.

The sheriff is hot! When it's made into a movie, which I bet it will be, he can play himself.

I wonder if the myspace page with reference to Bella was just put there to throw people off the real reason for the crime. Scary, it makes me want to go out and buy serveilence (SP?) for my house.

[trigger]

They did have a house alarm but not acitvated, left a door open. Not uncommon in that area. Such a shame. LE said there looking for 3 male blacks, possibly 2 will be arrested soon. and have identified them through the course of the investigation...My computer went nto hybernate mode.

[VC2]

He wasnt gonna tell us the other motives. dang it. This just not make sense to me. The intruders had to know their way around that house. in and out in 4 min. If they were robbing them blind they would of taken alot longer. jmo They knew the lay out of the house and it was a big house. didnt even harm the children? just the mother and father. more arrest to come also. :confused:

This is so bizarre. The robbery part must have been one item, that house is huge. After killing the parents there was lots of time to ransack it, all they had to do was lock the kids in a room or tie them up. So why wouldn't they take the opportunity to grab a lot more than a few minutes worth (including the time to kill)

6-8 people..ringmaster was gonzales imo bc no way would he have gotten his dad involved if it wasn't, not as if they didn't have enough other ppl to drive.

i think the story of bella has something to do with this, perhaps not in the sense of looking for her but given the MS saying "taking on humanity", i wonder if they used the billings'es as an example of the 'evil ppl' who steal others children..in his mind. Another possibility was the sick creep thought they were abusing the children, and a third is the opposite..that they wanted to cause as much pain and shock as possible so since they had been profiled and were well known as adopted parents of special needs kids...

SOMETHING though got a large number of people to join him in this. I doubt it was simple burglary because of the amount needed to make it worthwhile after dividing by 6 or 8. They bought clothes especially for this...something totally crazy and the mastermind convinced others that it was necessary for some reason

imo

[trigger]

The presser is still ongoing now. LE was alterted by one of the children who ran to a neighbor's house and the neighbor called. There were 9 children living at home at the time.

That poor child, OMG.:cursing:

[VC2]

btw HLN is covering it tonight as is NG. no word yet on jvm that i noticed

[trigger]

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713/NEWS01/90713021&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

[jewel6]

In that guys myspace he had military uniform on. But if he was in the military he couldnt have been too smart because he left his myspace up during the murders. jmo

[trigger]

Sheriff stated there are multiple motives - so yes, burglary and Bella may be a couple of them. I wonder if the ringleader is one of the people they have not caught yet. This was such a well organized military-style operation - I just don't see it as having been led by Poff/Gonzales - who is more a violent petty thief type, I think.

Hers Poff/Gonzales arrest record....

http://www.escambiaclerk.com/xml/xml_search.asp?ulname=poff&ufname=patrick&ucasetype2=&ucase=&ucit=&ufromdate=&daterange=0&ucasetype=&uagencynbr=&uagencytype=

Hope it works or just go to this website and put in his name..

[VC2]

omg. David mattingly just showed the walmart surveillance tape of one of the white guys in custody and 2 of the black men they are looking for.

What turned my stomack is Colderine (i think it was him) had a little girl with him, who was looking at him and was holding her little hands. Just looked like a day at the store with dad.

WHY?????? why do this to the people or to their own families who will lose their dads now. I understand if a burglar kills if they find the adults home, but this is clearly not that situation where someone panics and murders, plus there were so many of them.

[VC2]

Sheriff stated there are multiple motives - so yes, burglary and Bella may be a couple of them. I wonder if the ringleader is one of the people they have not caught yet. This was such a well organized military-style operation - I just don't see it as having been led by Poff/Gonzales - who is more a violent petty thief type, I think.

Sheriff said that the ringleader was in custody so either gonzales or colderine

[trigger]

OK Nancy Grace will yell and scream and get most of the facts wrong.... I'd rather wait for the next press conference. What is jvm?

JVM is Jane Veles Mitchel, shes on HLN before Nancy Grace show.

[jewel6]

omg. David mattingly just showed the walmart surveillance tape of one of the white guys in custody and 2 of the black men they are looking for.

What turned my stomack is Colderine (i think it was him) had a little girl with him, who was looking at him and was holding her little hands. Just looked like a day at the store with dad.

WHY?????? why do this to the people or to their own families who will lose their dads now. I understand if a burglar kills if they find the adults home, but this is clearly not that situation where someone panics and murders, plus there were so many of them.

People are just sick! I think something deeper must have gone on here. why not just rob them and be done with it. makes me sick. jmo

[jewel6]

does anyone know about this house? It seems like it must be out aways not in a subdivision?

[VC2]

odd thought. The sheriff said that the red van was NOT owned by gonzales or the people arrested. made it sound like whoever owned it was not involved.

It was a 15 seater very visible van, not exactly one that blends in.

Is it possible they planned to take the children? There was no need to go for such a big van for 3 or 4 ppl and need a separate car (the escalade) for 2 others unless they were either going to take out truckloads or ... take a dozen kids and put them in the seats.

That would explain needing so many people as well. Perhaps actually seeing the special needs children put them off, or the parents were killed and that was not planned chasing them out of the house without the kids

its the only thing i can think of that would explain that choice of getaway car and the need for two of them

[jewel6]

odd thought. The sheriff said that the red van was NOT owned by gonzales or the people arrested. made it sound like whoever owned it was not involved.

It was a 15 seater very visible van, not exactly one that blends in.

Is it possible they planned to take the children? There was no need to go for such a big van for 3 or 4 ppl and need a separate car (the escalade) for 2 others unless they were either going to take out truckloads or ... take a dozen kids and put them in the seats.

That would explain needing so many people as well. Perhaps actually seeing the special needs children put them off, or the parents were killed and that was not planned chasing them out of the house without the kids

its the only thing i can think of that would explain that choice of getaway car and the need for two of them

Good observation! but didnt gonz sr try to paint over van? Why would they want to take the kids? just so sad. im telling you this is a mystery! hope we get some answers soon! jmo

[n/t]

odd thought. The sheriff said that the red van was NOT owned by gonzales or the people arrested. made it sound like whoever owned it was not involved.

It was a 15 seater very visible van, not exactly one that blends in.

Is it possible they planned to take the children? There was no need to go for such a big van for 3 or 4 ppl and need a separate car (the escalade) for 2 others unless they were either going to take out truckloads or ... take a dozen kids and put them in the seats.

That would explain needing so many people as well. Perhaps actually seeing the special needs children put them off, or the parents were killed and that was not planned chasing them out of the house without the kids

its the only thing i can think of that would explain that choice of getaway car and the need for two of them


Good point. I could not understand why they would take a 15 seater for a robbery? It didn't make any sense to me but now that you mentioned perhaps wanting to take the children...it puts a whole new twist. Maybe child porn or prostitution?

Mike Brooks on HLN said that he believes one of them probably knew how to get around the house. Someone who had worked on the house? His theory is that perhaps the parents recognized one of them. Their voice...and that's why they were murdered.

This is just too sad. They showed that photo of the parents with the children and it broke my heart. :crying:

[Kip]

Good observation! but didnt gonz sr try to paint over van? Why would they want to take the kids? just so sad. im telling you this is a mystery! hope we get some answers soon! jmo

Yes, good point about the van, VC2.

Do you think they could have been planning to kidnap the kids and hold them for ransom?

[trigger]

[QUOTE=VC2;13279756]odd thought. The sheriff said that the red van was NOT owned by gonzales or the people arrested. made it sound like whoever owned it was not involved.

It was a 15 seater very visible van, not exactly one that blends in.

Is it possible they planned to take the children? There was no need to go for such a big van for 3 or 4 ppl and need a separate car (the escalade) for 2 others unless they were either going to take out truckloads or ... take a dozen kids and put them in the seats.

That would explain needing so many people as well. Perhaps actually seeing the special needs children put them off, or the parents were killed and that was not planned chasing them out of the house without the kids.
:cursing:
Wow good thinking about taking the children. Maybe your right and something went terribly wrong and had to leave real quick thats why they were inside for a short time. So sad I cannot even think of the children HEARING multiple gun shots. They must have been sooooo scared.:cursing:

[Kip]

[snipped]

This is just too sad. They showed that photo of the parents with the children and it broke my heart. :crying:

I know...one of the posters on the Pensacola Daily Journal site said that the dad's office at his car dealership has pictures of the kids all over the walls.

[n/t]

Sheriff stated there are multiple motives - so yes, burglary and Bella may be a couple of them. I wonder if the ringleader is one of the people they have not caught yet. This was such a well organized military-style operation - I just don't see it as having been led by Poff/Gonzales - who is more a violent petty thief type, I think.

Apparently, it was well planned out according to LE because it was carried out in 4 minutes but how stupid to go in with a 15 seater red van?????

There was another car involved. Did anyone catch the make of it? They mentioned it on HLN but I got interrupted. Did they find the other car?

[trigger]

Apparently, it was well planned out according to LE because it was carried out in 4 minutes but how stupid to go in with a 15 seater red van?????

There was another car involved. Did anyone catch the make of it? They mentioned it on HLN but I got interrupted. Did they find the other car?

A metallic blue or gold esclaide. Does anyone know where the 2 other (new) subjects that are being questioned in Oklahoma County, where is that, does anyone know. Is it in Ok.???

[trigger]

Oh, OK thank you. - you gave NG capitol letters, but not jvm - does that mean anything for you LOL?. I was trying to think of a news outlet or something, not a person.

I did. OMG. Im outside cannot type or see right now. The sun is out and its so bright...Sorry.....

[VC2]

Yes, good point about the van, VC2.

Do you think they could have been planning to kidnap the kids and hold them for ransom?

That or if gonzales jr. had some bee in his bonnet about his daughter bella, then it might have been to take all the kids away from ppl who "steal them" and to make a statement about it.

Another thought would be ransom, you give us bella we let these 12 go.

I have a feeling that some of the other motives will have to do with some kooky thinking. Rather like a mcveigh type who thinks he is making a point and doing some good by blowing up the building in oklahoma.

More i think about it, more i suspect they did plan to take the kids. It is insane to take a van that is so so visible (they only tried to paint it after the description got out)with so many seats to a robbery that lasts 4 minutes. If they owned the van then yes maybe but a bright red 15 seater that they didn't? This was so well planned imo there had to be a good reason.

jmo

eta and that would explain something i heard from david mattingly earlier today, that the kids are all together but until everyone is arrested the family will not say where bc someone might be looking for them. He downplayed it as "not saying they are in any danger but just as a precaution". i thought he meant perhaps to get rid of a witness but i bet its to keep them from being kidnapped

[n/t]

That or if gonzales jr. had some bee in his bonnet about his daughter bella, then it might have been to take all the kids away from ppl who "steal them" and to make a statement about it.

Another thought would be ransom, you give us bella we let these 12 go.

I have a feeling that some of the other motives will have to do with some kooky thinking. Rather like a mcveigh type who thinks he is making a point and doing some good by blowing up the building in oklahoma.

More i think about it, more i suspect they did plan to take the kids. It is insane to take a van that is so so visible (they only tried to paint it after the description got out)with so many seats to a robbery that lasts 4 minutes. If they owned the van then yes maybe but a bright red 15 seater that they didn't? This was so well planned imo there had to be a good reason.

jmo

eta and that would explain something i heard from david mattingly earlier today, that the kids are all together but until everyone is arrested the family will not say where bc someone might be looking for them. He downplayed it as "not saying they are in any danger but just as a precaution". i thought he meant perhaps to get rid of a witness but i bet its to keep them from being kidnapped

On HLN they said the kids were with family members and they're all together.

I think you may be right about Gonzales probably wanting to make a statement about "stealing kids" but why wouldn't he go after his ex wife and her family? Why this family?

If the Billings had Bella, why didn't they just grab her and take off??

[trigger]

Yes VC2 and when the daughter who was interviewed today and could not answer how she found out about her parents being murdered, she couldnt say, one of the children ran to a neighbors house because she and LE were in fear for the childs safety.

[VC2]

On HLN they said the kids were with family members and they're all together.

I think you may be right about Gonzales probably wanting to make a statement about "stealing kids" but why wouldn't he go after his ex wife and her family? Why this family?

If the Billings had Bella, why didn't they just grab her and take off??

his family would not generate the headlines this one did. They may not have had bella but they were still a very high profile target if he wanted to make some sort of sick statement since they had been on the news and well known.

[VC2]

Yes VC2 and when the daughter who was interviewed today and could not answer how she found out about her parents being murdered, she couldnt say, one of the children ran to a neighbors house because she and LE were in fear for the childs safety.

yes... she did mention fear for the childs safety.

i think robbery was the least of the motive :(

[trigger]

Site where they show the subjects entering Walmart.

http://www.weartv.com/

[n/t]

his family would not generate the headlines this one did. They may not have had bella but they were still a very high profile target if he wanted to make some sort of sick statement since they had been on the news and well known.

So something unexpected happened. They couldn't/didn't carry out their plan. They ended up murdering the parents but not taking any of the children nor harming them. Why?

[n/t]

Something else....the Billings had surveillance cameras all over. Did they have an alarm system??

[trigger]

yes... she did mention fear for the childs safety.

i think robbery was the least of the motive :(

I cannot believe they thought they would get away with this. Here they are on video buying ninja type of clothing, Senior Gonzales paints the van , theres cameras all over the house, theres children inside and they could had company at that time. Its amazing to me. Stupid stupid stupid. I hope they get the dp....

[trigger]

Thats what I was wondering. They had the huge van - must have planned to take the kids - why didn't they do it?

Maybe they were planning on lets say, taking a safe or safes. Maybe the van had a lift. Who knows.

[jewel6]

Something else....the Billings had surveillance cameras all over. Did they have an alarm system??

Yes but it wasnt on and doors unlocked. 7.00 pm. I wonder about the kids too? It looked like in the picture some of them might not be able to walk. why take two big vehicles? How well off were the parents? my mind is going crazy! :scared:

[trigger]

On another website WS they are saying they have a elevator, 3playrooms for the children, the girls bedrooms are decorated so nice like a princess suite with chanderliers..Also have a alarm sensor in the driveway and by the pool.

[Lynden1000]

I cannot believe they thought they would get away with this. Here they are on video buying ninja type of clothing, Senior Gonzales paints the van , theres cameras all over the house, theres children inside and they could had company at that time. Its amazing to me. Stupid stupid stupid. I hope they get the dp....

It almost seems like they wanted to get caught.

Maybe the ringleader wanted to get caught in order to make some sort of warped personal statement, and the others were rubes who were promised money or some such thing?

[VC2]

Yes but it wasnt on and doors unlocked. 7.00 pm. I wonder about the kids too? It looked like in the picture some of them might not be able to walk. why take two big vehicles? How well off were the parents? my mind is going crazy! :scared:

They were extremely wealthy, owned a number of businesses and wanted to share what they had with kids in need.

:(

[Keegan]

Possibly a relative owning drug money. A scare tactic?

[n/t]

I hope you are right - that one or more want to make some warped personal statement - or we'll never get to to bottom of this. THe sheriff said that one (or more, not sure) had requested an attorney so they had to stop the questioning,

Do we know who pulled the trigger? I'm wondering if one of the 6 or 8 murdered the parents but that was not the plan and they all took off when gunshots were fired.

3 got caught. The rest got away. Perhaps with money and valuables?

[n/t]

Cameras capture 'chilling' break-in:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090713/ap_on_re_us/us_florida_couple_slain

:crying:

"My mother always told me some people grow up wanting to be doctors or lawyers or teachers. She wanted to be a mommy," Markham said in a statement. "Her lifelong dream was loving her babies and being a voice for them."

[n/t]

From the link, it sounds like that they went in and executed them immediately.

I don't understand the Sherriff saying there seemed to be "numerous motives". They were in and out in less than 10 minutes. HLN said 4 minutes.

Could one of the older children have been involved? The analogy to "In Cold Blood" is disturbing.:sad:

[VC2]

there is apparently another briefing in an hour according to JVM

[VC2]

From the link, it sounds like that they went in and executed them immediately.

I don't understand the Sherriff saying there seemed to be "numerous motives". They were in and out in less than 10 minutes. HLN said 4 minutes.

Could one of the older children have been involved? The analogy to "In Cold Blood" is disturbing.:sad:

i seriously doubt it. Apart from the fact there is zero reason to suspect it, i cannot believe that they wouldn't have told gonzales etc that there was 100%video surveillance inside and outside

They may be stupid but they cant be so stupid as to borrow or use THAT van knowing the extent fo the security outside

imo

[n/t]

i seriously doubt it. Apart from the fact there is zero reason to suspect it, i cannot believe that they wouldn't have told gonzales etc that there was 100%video surveillance inside and outside

They may be stupid but they cant be so stupid as to borrow or use THAT van knowing the extent fo the security outside

imo

I'll have to go with Mike Brooks theory that it was someone who had already been in the house and probably did some work for them. The "In Cold Blood" mentioned by the Sheriff could be a clue as to how this all came down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Cold_Blood

Floyd Wells, who had once worked for the Clutters, said that he thought there was a safe at the ranch where Herb Clutter kept large amounts of cash, but he couldn't be sure. Hickock later contacted Smith about committing the robbery with him. Hickock hatched the idea in prison to commit the robbery, leave no witnesses and start a new life in Mexico with the cash from the Clutter home. Hickock described his plan as "a cinch, the perfect score."[1] The information proved to be false, since Herb Clutter did not keep cash on hand, had no safe, and did all his business using checks to better keep track of transactions.

[n/t]

Gonzales Sr said he didn't know who did the shooting, but his son and his friend both had guns when they went into the house. They have not yet charged others they are talking to now in custody - but I wouldn't say that they "got away". They are hot on the trail of others - I'm convinced they will round them all up. I assume they are working with US Marshalls etc. and those guys are GOOD, let me tell you.

Oh no doubt they'll get caught. I meant got away as in not getting caught yet as did the other 3.

[VC2]

I caught that - and I never know which station to check - HLN, CNN, MSNBC

me either. the sergeant on NH just said that they will have good news at the press conference at 8:30.

did he mean tonight or tomorrow?

[VC2]

I think tonight. What is NH? Similar HLN Headline News? I apparently can't keep up with the acronyms. Post REAL LOUD if you see any new news on it, would you?
lol sorry, i meant NG for nancy grace

[VC2]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/13/florida.couple.slain/index.html?eref=googletoolbar

A fourth suspect has been arrested in the shooting deaths of a Gulf Coast couple known for adopting special-needs children, authorities said late Monday.
Byrd and Melanie Billings did not have any children together but they cared for 16 children over the years.

Five masked men entered the Billingses' home on Thursday and left within 10 minutes, police say.

Gary Lamont Sumner faces a murder charge for his alleged role in the deaths of Byrd and Melanie Billings on Thursday, Escambia County, Florida, Sheriff David Morgan said.

[trigger]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/13/florida.couple.slain/index.html?eref=googletoolbar

Great news. More to come I hope. On weartv.com it says subject Coldirons stepdaughter told news that he worked for them landscapping. Just got back so I dont know if it was posted already, cannot get link up.

[courtsinsession]

This is a particularly disturbing crime; the victims were so kind, so wonderful, it breaks my heart that these monsters executed them with such apparent ease. thank goodness for the surveillance cameras which were used to keep their brood safe. just too awful.

[liberty11]

I wonder if the myspace page with reference to Bella was just put there to throw people off the real reason for the crime. Scary, it makes me want to go out and buy serveilence (SP?) for my house.

I haven't read any posts past yours yet so sorry if this has already been said... If you look at the profiles of the people who have left comments on his myspace page- they are somewhat... fake :confused: looking. Why would a high power public official have their birthdate wrong, have registered for myspace at the same time that this man was beefing up his page with blog entries, and let alone elude to providing legal advice? It is just bizarre.

[trigger]

Alot of good videos so far on wear tv news.

Daughter of Wayne Coldiron speaks out.
http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_2710.shtml

Video of Gonzales Jr at work with children....http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_2711.shtml

[Adalena935]

Thanks for posting the link trigger. What a heartache for even the families of the people who did this horrible crime. Those poor people they murdered and their poor children losing loving parents who loved and cared for them so well. why oh why.

[VC2]

Thanks for posting the link trigger. What a heartache for even the families of the people who did this horrible crime. Those poor people they murdered and their poor children losing loving parents who loved and cared for them so well. why oh why.

yes...it is. and if as i suspect, this is going to have some sort of justification reason - not saying it is justified, but that somehow the people were convinced that it was- and they planned to take the kids, not necessarily kill the parents, then there are going to be so many kids who lost their parents through this...not just the billings kids but the perps like the little girl colderine was holding hands with in the walmart video....all for some stupid idea.

I am anti dealth penalty not just for moral and discriminatory reasons - it goes beyond minorities to geography, whether your pd is any good, the mood of the jury on a given day, if a DA is up for re election - but also for the kids.

Just because the creeps are not able to put their kids first and not commit the crime does not mean that to the little ones they weren't loving daddies or mommies. I think it makes it much harder for a child to grow up well adjusted if the state kills their parent. yes i know the arguments against that, including that they wouldn't grow up well adjusted with one who committed these crimes but many do with dads in prison.

either way it is tragic for all concerned and especially those developmentally handicapped children who don't understand why their world has turned upside down. Or at least some of them don't

[jewel6]

I was talking to my mom who lives in florida and she said she had watched something on tv about this family not long ago. Wonder if these crooks saw it televised? jmo

[Keegan]

Three arrests made overnight...one a sixteen-year-old.

[dgfred]

Wonder why they killed them anyway, if robbery was the motive? Could it have been jealousy, resentment, evil... what reason?

[n/t]

Three arrests made overnight...one a sixteen-year-old.

I haven't heard about the 16 year old.

Here's the latest I could find online

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2009/07/sheriff-expects-more-arrests-in-slaying-of-fla-couple.html

[Keegan]

Breaking news here.....no story

http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_2705.shtml

[Adalena935]

yes...it is. and if as i suspect, this is going to have some sort of justification reason - not saying it is justified, but that somehow the people were convinced that it was- and they planned to take the kids, not necessarily kill the parents, then there are going to be so many kids who lost their parents through this...not just the billings kids but the perps like the little girl colderine was holding hands with in the walmart video....all for some stupid idea.

I am anti dealth penalty not just for moral and discriminatory reasons - it goes beyond minorities to geography, whether your pd is any good, the mood of the jury on a given day, if a DA is up for re election - but also for the kids.

Just because the creeps are not able to put their kids first and not commit the crime does not mean that to the little ones they weren't loving daddies or mommies. I think it makes it much harder for a child to grow up well adjusted if the state kills their parent. yes i know the arguments against that, including that they wouldn't grow up well adjusted with one who committed these crimes but many do with dads in prison.

either way it is tragic for all concerned and especially those developmentally handicapped children who don't understand why their world has turned upside down. Or at least some of them don't

Well I can't argue with you about the DP. It suits me if they'd just leave them locked up but I can't imagine if they were going to take the kids why didn't they take the kids? hm? Or are you thinking some of the kids were taken and LE just hasen't released that info yet? I thought I heard on news (briefly) that the children in the home were not harmed.

Could you expound on what you're thinking about possible justification in the perpetrator's mind(s)? I understand what you mean about "..justification REASON.." in their minds. But I can't think of any possible scenario for that. Well I guess time will tell.

I read one report where it's said they were proportedly in there only 4 min, another that said about 10. Seems like robbery in a home that size would take longer just to look if they thought there was a safe (as the killers thought with the Clutter case from In Cold Blood notoriety).

[Adalena935]

Breaking news here.....no story

http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_2705.shtml

Wow, thanks.

[Adalena935]

After reading Keegan's posted link I can think of a possible motive. Maybe a parent of one of the adopted children? I'm stumped. I don't know any of the details of who all the adopted and fostered children's lives or their bio-parents. Shocking crime.

[n/t]

Breaking news here.....no story

http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_2705.shtml

Thanks Keegan.

This is just unbelievable!

[VC2]

Three arrests made overnight...one a sixteen-year-old.

:( easy at that age to convince someone they are fighting for something "right" if that is what happened

[VC2]

After reading Keegan's posted link I can think of a possible motive. Maybe a parent of one of the adopted children? I'm stumped. I don't know any of the details of who all the adopted and fostered children's lives or their bio-parents. Shocking crime.

yes i was thinking either a parent or even no biological relationship but since the family had been on the news and written up in the papers, they used them as an example of people "stealing" kids from their rightful parents.

Apparently in Gonzales' july 6 MS page he said they were moving closer to the answer or something.

re the time, the total time from the moment they entered the property gates to leaving was 10 minutes. they were in the house 4 minutes. I think they planned to take the kids but someone got antsy and shot the parents or one parent then the other and they all fled.

Just a guess on my part.

[GentleBreeze]

Well I can't argue with you about the DP. It suits me if they'd just leave them locked up but I can't imagine if they were going to take the kids why didn't they take the kids? hm? Or are you thinking some of the kids were taken and LE just hasn't released that info yet? I thought I heard on news (briefly) that the children in the home were not harmed.

Could you expound on what you're thinking about possible justification in the perpetrator's mind(s)? I understand what you mean about "..justification REASON.." in their minds. But I can't think of any possible scenario for that. Well I guess time will tell.

I read one report where it's said they were purportedly in there only 4 min, another that said about 10. Seems like robbery in a home that size would take longer just to look if they thought there was a safe (as the killers thought with the Clutter case from In Cold Blood notoriety).

Hi Adalena!:smile:

I had wondered if they thought these people carried cash in their home. Didn't they own some car dealerships? Maybe they thought the couple had a safe in their bedroom and when they found out they did not they shot them to leave no adult witnesses behind.

I wonder if all of these perpetrators had been unable to see their children or that some of them had been already adopted out and they were still angry about that. I don't know if any specific child of these creeps was adopted by the Billings or if they just had such a raging anger against those that do adopt children but then that might be another motive why they picked this particular couple.

It is so sad that this seems to be happening everywhere for some insane reason or another. No one is safe in their own home no matter where they live.

imo

[n/t]

Anyone who can give those of us at work updates from the 12:00 pm press conference will be very much appreciated!!

[GentleBreeze]

yes i was thinking either a parent or even no biological relationship but since the family had been on the news and written up in the papers, they used them as an example of people "stealing" kids from their rightful parents.

Apparently in Gonzales' july 6 MS page he said they were moving closer to the answer or something.

re the time, the total time from the moment they entered the property gates to leaving was 10 minutes. they were in the house 4 minutes. I think they planned to take the kids but someone got antsy and shot the parents or one parent then the other and they all fled.

Just a guess on my part.

I wonder if they left sooner than planned was because they may have seen the one child flee from the home in order to get help.

imo

[VC2]

Press conference scheduled for about an hour from now.

as per hln

[Keegan]

Greed has to be involved with as many that carried the crime out and not thinking it was grabbing children.

[VC2]

I wonder if they left sooner than planned was because they may have seen the one child flee from the home in order to get help.

imo

could be. I still think they planned on taking the kids and the borrowed fire engine red 15 seat van is the biggest clue in it. You don't need 6 people to commit a robbery, in fact its a bit self defeating since they have to divide the shares. I think robbery was the least of it.

IMO

[GentleBreeze]

could be. I still think they planned on taking the kids and the borrowed fire engine red 15 seat van is the biggest clue in it. You don't need 6 people to commit a robbery, in fact its a bit self defeating since they have to divide the shares. I think robbery was the least of it.

IMO

Well I think they have arrested another one now. From another site I read they got him in Alabama and he may be in the Air Force.

Don't have a link though.

imo

[n/t]

CNN.comLIVE is set up and ready for the presser now. Yesterday CNN TV only showed a bit of it - but the online one stayed on it. I like the opportunity to watch the humdinger (the shreriff) a little longer.

LOL

Thanks for any updates, penny.

[VC2]

i love that sheriff!!

[VC2]

who are the people behind the scheriff?

the daughter and her husband, perhaps a victims advocate as well?

[VC2]

they say a safe but have completely shut down any discussion of what was in the safe.

I am still going back to gonzales and his webpage and wondering..adoption papers that might show where bella is?

Yeah i know im on a not a simple robbery kick but i still don't get that its a simple robbery

[jewel6]

The motive is pure robbery. coldiron had done odd jobs at house and gonz sr had pressure washing business and been to the house. automible detail co had also done work for the couple. thats how everything is connected. they stold a safe from house. they had practiced on robbing this house. two of the guys had military back grounds. Why oh Why did they have kill these people? jmo

[VC2]

hmm i forgot ... florida's sunshine laws! We will get the info sooner than later.

something is wacky in this case..i still say that. it just doesn't add up yet.

However they did a fabulous job in investigating and arresting everyone.

[jewel6]

hmm i forgot ... florida's sunshine laws! We will get the info sooner than later.

something is wacky in this case..i still say that. it just doesn't add up yet.

However they did a fabulous job in investigating and arresting everyone.


excellent job, too bad all crimes cant be investigated like this one. jmo

[VC2]

The motive is pure robbery. coldiron had done odd jobs at house and gonz sr had pressure washing business and been to the house. automible detail co had also done work for the couple. thats how everything is connected. they stold a safe from house. they had practiced on robbing this house. two of the guys had military back grounds. Why oh Why did they have kill these people? jmo

:( god..sheriff said it spiraled out of control.

i still think the robbery was not just for cash/goods. The web page and his comments about moving forward for humanity, then on july 6 getting closer to finding an answer re bella...they reek of papers/adoption/finding. Plus if it was simple robbery for cash i doubt they would have shut down so completely on what was in it. Technically a simple robbery but not necessarily what led to this family being targeted especially since they had far more surveillance cameras than most houses and anyone working there would know it. Why go there for cash alone, lots of other rich people.

imo

[jewel6]

SO you just don't believe what the Sheriff says about motive (s)? He says robbery is just one. What is it you know that he doesn't know?

Sorry didnt mean it like that. I think there are other factors. i was just paraphrasing what they said on tv. for the people at work. i beleive there is something else because why so many people to rob them. and then to kill them on top of that. jmo

[n/t]

Does the Sheriff still believe more than one motive? TIA

[JHP]

Does the Sheriff still believe more than one motive? TIA

I think so. He is a little sketchy about it. But IMO there's more then just a robbery.

[n/t]

I think so. He is a little sketchy about it. But IMO there's more then just a robbery.

Thank you..

[VC2]

Correct. I think the other man who spoke alot is the DA - am I correct? I think that he really wants to keep a lid on info for awhile to protect the cases they will be presenting in court.

I felt sad when i heard what they said about the 16 year old..i just pray that he is not the one who panicked and shot the parents. Makes more sense for a teen to panic but these jerks should never have taken him along or given him a gun! Yes i know he made a choice but while robbery may seem cool or if as i think it had more to do with adoption papers as opposed to pure cash he may have felt he was helping right a wrong..kids can be sooo stupid. he threw his life away for 4 minutes of nothing.

(yes i am one who believes that kids do not have the same capacity as adults to understand the long term consequences of their actions which is why the don't sign contracts, and i also believe kids can change dramatically between 16 and 21)

jmo

eta and its a sad irony that the very ppl who loved children in need...had a child involved in their death

[AJandTam]

they say a safe but have completely shut down any discussion of what was in the safe.

I am still going back to gonzales and his webpage and wondering..adoption papers that might show where bella is?

Yeah i know im on a not a simple robbery kick but i still don't get that its a simple robbery

I think, I agree w/you. There is something here that we don't know that would make this make more sense. What could the B's have had that would make that many people all band together to pull this off. It would have to be something worth alot of money to be able to split it and it be worth it to so many. I think this had something to do w/a cause?? You think? Adoption papers is definately an idea.. As i'm understanding it. Many were involved in planning this but only some of them actually went to the scene to pull it off.. For some reason this has sort of a "Leverage" (the show) feel to it. Like in thier minds, they thought they were taking one for what they think is the good guys. Sort of vigilante type justice type cause.

[JHP]

Correct. I think the other man who spoke alot is the DA - am I correct? I think that he really wants to keep a lid on info for awhile to protect the cases they will be presenting in court.


Can you imagine, a week ago that was a reasonably quiet Florida town.
If I understood correctly the DA now has 6/7 murder trials. Now thats enough to make your head spin.

I felt so sorry for the daughter that was next to the Sheriff. She was so upset. :sad:

[AJandTam]

I felt sad when i heard what they said about the 16 year old..i just pray that he is not the one who panicked and shot the parents. Makes more sense for a teen to panic but these jerks should never have taken him along or given him a gun! Yes i know he made a choice but while robbery may seem cool or if as i think it had more to do with adoption papers as opposed to pure cash he may have felt he was helping right a wrong..kids can be sooo stupid. he threw his life away for 4 minutes of nothing.

(yes i am one who believes that kids do not have the same capacity as adults to understand the long term consequences of their actions which is why the don't sign contracts, and i also believe kids can change dramatically between 16 and 21)

jmo

eta and its a sad irony that the very ppl who loved children in need...had a child involved in their death

I'm getting just a little bit mixed up over here because I can only follow this w/a short amount of time. Some of these people have a criminal background but not all. If i'm getting this right, some of them it makes sense for them to be doing a robbery but not all?? I'm on the same page w/this as you are right now. I don't think this was a simple robbery, and I can't imagine why they would take a kid of 16 into a group w/middle aged experienced men.. A karate expert and possibly and air force guy mixed w/druggies and people w/bad back grounds.. It's just has a cause feel to me.. then a 16 year old. I'm kind of rambing here, I know.. ??

[VC2]

I'm getting just a little bit mixed up over here because I can only follow this w/a short amount of time. Some of these people have a criminal background but not all. If i'm getting this right, some of them it makes sense for them to be doing a robbery but not all?? I'm on the same page w/this as you are right now. I don't think this was a simple robbery, and I can't imagine why they would take a kid of 16 into a group w/middle aged experienced men.. A karate expert and possibly and air force guy mixed w/druggies and people w/bad back grounds.. It's just has a cause feel to me.. then a 16 year old. I'm kind of rambing here, I know.. ??

Yep. I strongly believe it has to do with the papers in the safe more than the cash or jewelry type thing. Or else it would be a simple thing to say they stole cash or goods. Not hurting the prosecution to do that.

I do know what you mean, sort of what i was trying to say too. and to take a 16 yr old on this thing is unforgiveable imo. He may have had trouble or even a juvie record for something (we dont know) but i am betting that he was not a murderer. All these adults if i was his attorney i would be arguing undue influence as part of the defense. Lots of kids try to be more grown up and do what adults do, even bad things but rarely do adults take them with them and give them a freaking gun on a crime. (unless the teen is 18 and the adult 21 or something close)

my words for these freaks would get me banned but i agree it is more a "cause" thing at least for the ringleader/s. Some of the others might have agreed to help bc of whatever they found in cash/goods in the safe but i bet all felt justified somehow.

not sure i have ever been quite so angry at a childs involvement in a crime before, not at the child but those who took him along. If they had not let him come, he would be sitting at home right now thinking omg omg i almost went with them, and perhaps even straighten up.

instead he will be in prison for the rest of his life and i do think the adults influenced him. and if he was the one that pulled the trigger because he panicked then imo they are more culpable than he is since they know how a teen might react to a problem as well as know how guns work being ex marine and stuff.

jmo

eta i think i am partly angry because he is one of the people the billingses would have wanted to help..underprivileged children. That they lost their lives is bad enough without this added to it

[AJandTam]

Yep. I strongly believe it has to do with the papers in the safe more than the cash or jewelry type thing. Or else it would be a simple thing to say they stole cash or goods. Not hurting the prosecution to do that.

I do know what you mean, sort of what i was trying to say too. and to take a 16 yr old on this thing is unforgiveable imo. He may have had trouble or even a juvie record for something (we dont know) but i am betting that he was not a murderer. All these adults if i was his attorney i would be arguing undue influence as part of the defense. Lots of kids try to be more grown up and do what adults do, even bad things but rarely do adults take them with them and give them a freaking gun on a crime. (unless the teen is 18 and the adult 21 or something close)

my words for these freaks would get me banned but i agree it is more a "cause" thing at least for the ringleader/s. Some of the others might have agreed to help bc of whatever they found in cash/goods in the safe but i bet all felt justified somehow.

not sure i have ever been quite so angry at a childs involvement in a crime before, not at the child but those who took him along. If they had not let him come, he would be sitting at home right now thinking omg omg i almost went with them, and perhaps even straighten up.

instead he will be in prison for the rest of his life and i do think the adults influenced him. and if he was the one that pulled the trigger because he panicked then imo they are more culpable than he is since they know how a teen might react to a problem as well as know how guns work being ex marine and stuff.

jmo

eta i think i am partly angry because he is one of the people the billingses would have wanted to help..underprivileged children. That they lost their lives is bad enough without this added to it

I know VC. It just defies our minds that someone would not only break into a house full of children but use a child in the commission of a crime. I wonder if this kid was involved because he is the child of one of the adults involved. Sick, Sick but that's my guess. They were all middle aged men who could have children in that age range.

You are right, I agree. It will be sad irony if this 16 year old turned out to be the shooter. The one case that always got to me where a child was involved in a crime because of a sick adult was the DC Sniper case. I'll always believe the boy involved was a good kid and only killed because he was scared to death and in the hands of that monsterous man... I always thought that kid was a victim too. I still get mad when I think about it. I know some kids have been known to murder on thier own .. I don't know.. I feel like kids are just so vulnerable, even teens..

[Debb]

I hope that after the arrest of the last remaining suspect, LE will provide a few more details of their theory behind the crime. Are these guys working out deals with LE or just giving the names of the other suspects out of the goodness of their hearts?

ABC is still reporting that they were in and out with the safe in 4 minutes. Even with all that manpower, how is that possible? I doubt I could go into my own house with help and get a safe out in 4 minutes and I know every detail of my house very well. Even with a map, it would be difficult to do. If I understand it correctly, they did get the safe out of the house and took off with it them.

[AJandTam]

that the 16 yr old child is not one of the ones with a gun. We don't know whether he did or didn't do we? And we don't know who the shooter or shooters were, do we? The were so many questions at the presser that I could not hear.

In future CNN, FOX - please point out there are no microphones in the audience and ask the speakers to repeat the questions being asked.

Hi Penny.. You are right, we are thinking out loud of what could have been done but we really don't know anything definate. I am figuring that tthis 16 year old is most likely the child of one of the adults involved. But again, this is merely a guess/speculation. All we can do is wait for the story to come out. Unfortunately, what is done is now done and no one can change it..

[VC2]

I know VC. It just defies our minds that someone would not only break into a house full of children but use a child in the commission of a crime. I wonder if this kid was involved because he is the child of one of the adults involved. Sick, Sick but that's my guess. They were all middle aged men who could have children in that age range.

You are right, I agree. It will be sad irony if this 16 year old turned out to be the shooter. The one case that always got to me where a child was involved in a crime because of a sick adult was the DC Sniper case. I'll always believe the boy involved was a good kid and only killed because he was scared to death and in the hands of that monsterous man... I always thought that kid was a victim too. I still get mad when I think about it. I know some kids have been known to murder on thier own .. I don't know.. I feel like kids are just so vulnerable, even teens..

I always felt like that too. Kids can do some heinous atrocious things but often its due to either temper and hormones mixed with not truly understanding the consequences (i mean that they have ruined their own life too and if they had calmed down or waited a year they would be horrified at what they thought of doing) but in the DC sniper case i believed it was a mix of stockholm syndrome, not that he was kidnapped but that he was under such strong influence from the adult that he could do nothing but go along with him and pure fear of the man with no where to turn. Us law abiding and reasonably well educated adults know they can turn themselves in, LE would protect them..sort of..remember the tracy torture case..and there are all sorts of options but they don't or they don't believe it. Just like girls abandoning their babies in a shoe box when there are safe haven laws. First they have to know they are there and second they have to trust them.

I guess i often put myself in the mind of a child who commits a crime and understand it. And my favorite author is proof imo that treating them as children even if they commit murder can result in a good citizen later. Anne Perry committed murder and spent 5 years in juvenile detention for it. It was horrible, bashing her friends mother in with a brick, she and the friend had lured her into the woods to kill her.

Both girls have lived solid lives since then, her friend as a very very religious woman and anne perry of course moved to scotland and is million dollar best selling author of victorian mysteries.

there are many stories like that from times when kids were not treated as adults and turned around but she is probably the best well known. they change, they mature, they grow up.

However the adults in this case are despicable. I was so pleased the sheriff had the sister and her husband at the presser, it was very respectful when announcing they have solved it and arrested them all. another reason i wonder if it has to do with adoption of his daughter whether or not it was the billings, is that his dad was part of it. No matter if your dad has trouble with the law too (i think numerous parking tickets and something else) who in the world convinces their dad to take part in something like this????? like you said, it smells of a "cause"

[MiamiNice1]

This is a good, up-to-the-moment reporting of what they have so far:

Scroll down through the article and you can click on *watch surveillance video of the home invasion*

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/14/florida.couple.slain/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

[Grayson]

I was pretty shocked when I heard about this crime. I am sure there are sub motives behind this ransom and robbery. Maybe they involuntarily knew them, before. It was very sad. The way I heard the story reported over television bothered me. It was reported in a way that used words like "miliraty precision" among others, and after reading the facts I don't think there was anything like miliraty precision in this crime, just a savage breaking and entering.

[dgfred]

I think the timing is what they meant by military precision- both teams arriving at the home at the same time, and leaving the residence in such a short amount of time after getting/doing what they wanted.

[VC2]

just listened to gonzales jr. The man is crazy. He wanted to be released on his own recognizance or a lower bond :mad: as IF.

Also calls the charges heinous against him lol

[AJandTam]

I always felt like that too. Kids can do some heinous atrocious things but often its due to either temper and hormones mixed with not truly understanding the consequences (i mean that they have ruined their own life too and if they had calmed down or waited a year they would be horrified at what they thought of doing) but in the DC sniper case i believed it was a mix of stockholm syndrome, not that he was kidnapped but that he was under such strong influence from the adult that he could do nothing but go along with him and pure fear of the man with no where to turn. Us law abiding and reasonably well educated adults know they can turn themselves in, LE would protect them..sort of..remember the tracy torture case..and there are all sorts of options but they don't or they don't believe it. Just like girls abandoning their babies in a shoe box when there are safe haven laws. First they have to know they are there and second they have to trust them.

I guess i often put myself in the mind of a child who commits a crime and understand it. And my favorite author is proof imo that treating them as children even if they commit murder can result in a good citizen later. Anne Perry committed murder and spent 5 years in juvenile detention for it. It was horrible, bashing her friends mother in with a brick, she and the friend had lured her into the woods to kill her.

Both girls have lived solid lives since then, her friend as a very very religious woman and anne perry of course moved to scotland and is million dollar best selling author of victorian mysteries.

there are many stories like that from times when kids were not treated as adults and turned around but she is probably the best well known. they change, they mature, they grow up.

However the adults in this case are despicable. I was so pleased the sheriff had the sister and her husband at the presser, it was very respectful when announcing they have solved it and arrested them all. another reason i wonder if it has to do with adoption of his daughter whether or not it was the billings, is that his dad was part of it. No matter if your dad has trouble with the law too (i think numerous parking tickets and something else) who in the world convinces their dad to take part in something like this????? like you said, it smells of a "cause"

I completely agree. I think these days people forget children are children. They tend to go overboard w/the way we treat them these days..

Good Post.

[AJandTam]

just listened to gonzales jr. The man is crazy. He wanted to be released on his own recognizance or a lower bond :mad: as IF.

Also calls the charges heinous against him lol

See, this is what we've been saying. These people, whatever reason they had to do this. They saw themselves as hero's/victims.. This is some kind of vigilante/fanatical group. I'm thinking..

[dgfred]

Well the ones that thought it was only a robbery (if that was their plan) sure got a giant suprise when the shooting started... I bet they sing like songbirds on the other suspects.

[crimeq]

I hope that after the arrest of the last remaining suspect, LE will provide a few more details of their theory behind the crime. Are these guys working out deals with LE or just giving the names of the other suspects out of the goodness of their hearts?

ABC is still reporting that they were in and out with the safe in 4 minutes. Even with all that manpower, how is that possible? I doubt I could go into my own house with help and get a safe out in 4 minutes and I know every detail of my house very well. Even with a map, it would be difficult to do. If I understand it correctly, they did get the safe out of the house and took off with it them.

How large was this safe, any reports on that?

[Cavalier]

How large was this safe, any reports on that?

In the PC the sheriff would only describe it as medium. When asked to elaborate, he shut down and stuck with medium.

[crimeq]

In the PC the sheriff would only describe it as medium. When asked to elaborate, he shut down and stuck with medium.

The perps sure moved fast to be carrying a medium safe :confused:

I wonder if either of the two perps who had done jobs on the property had seen Byrd go into that safe to get money to pay them.

This just doesn't sound right to me -- plus the sheriff saying early-on that it would be a "humdinger" -- well, a safe robbery isn't really a humdinger, IMO.

There's got to be more to the story.

[courtsinsession]

I felt sad when i heard what they said about the 16 year old..i just pray that he is not the one who panicked and shot the parents. Makes more sense for a teen to panic but these jerks should never have taken him along or given him a gun! Yes i know he made a choice but while robbery may seem cool or if as i think it had more to do with adoption papers as opposed to pure cash he may have felt he was helping right a wrong..kids can be sooo stupid. he threw his life away for 4 minutes of nothing.

(yes i am one who believes that kids do not have the same capacity as adults to understand the long term consequences of their actions which is why the don't sign contracts, and i also believe kids can change dramatically between 16 and 21)

jmo

eta and its a sad irony that the very ppl who loved children in need...had a child involved in their death


please save your sadness for the victims and the family of the deceased; none of us know anything about this 16 year old; it could have been his idea to murder those people; you don't know; he could be a sociopath; who knows how he got involved; i am in no way giving him a break or feeling said about his sorry azz. he was in fact involved in one of the most vicious crimes against such decent people, I have ever heard of; I haven't got one ounce of sadness for a 16 year old who is involved in a murder; not one ounce.

[BorderCollieMom]

Did I just hear right...1 of the guys is Active Military ? It is HLN.

I missed most of it.

[desmom]

7 Suspects In Custody In Slaying Of Florida Couple
http://www.wftv.com/news/20046872/detail.html

Mug Shots - The Murder Suspects:
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20052825/detail.html

7/14 Sheriff's Presser On Arrests:
http://www.wftv.com/video/20052082/index.html

Images Of Victims, Surveillance:
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20042249/detail.html

7/13 Sheriff's Presser On Arrests:
http://www.wftv.com/video/20042484/index.html

[Kip]

Nice collection of URLs. Thanks, Desmom.

[Pat]

I would be surprised to hear papers relating to the adoptions were in the safe. I would think, given the number of children and issues relating to the special needs, everything would be with their lawyers.

These people had numerous businesses and would know valuable papers shouldn't be stored at home...especially given their location. A bad hurricane going into the mouth of Mobile Bay or related spin-off tornadoes could destroy it or make it so insecure as to be vulnerable to looters. The first place looters would go would be the safe.

This is such asad case. My heart goes out to their children and other family and friends.

[Kip]

It's amazing to me that this group was able to pull it off. Given the number of people involved, it's surprising one of them didn't spill the beans to a friend or family member (who would then hopefully reported it). And how did Gonzalez Jr get so many people on board with this scheme? It makes me wonder if he might have asked others who turned him down.

[trigger]

It's amazing to me that this group was able to pull it off. Given the number of people involved, it's surprising one of them didn't spill the beans to a friend or family member (who would then hopefully reported it). And how did Gonzalez Jr get so many people on board with this scheme? It makes me wonder if he might have asked others who turned him down.

Just got here and im glad they got everyone in custody. What im thinking is ..there must have been alot of money or pricy jewelry inside that house to split between 7 people. The way they entered the house is the way the gypsies do a burglary. 2 go around the back of your house go the side entrance and then 2 go up to your front door. The owner answers the door and they keep the owner occupied while the others get inside, take whatever they can in minutes time and leave. My gf came home for lunch and found them in her house, two were running down the driveway, while her jewelry was falling from under their clothes.

[Pat]

Or it could be these criminals thought there was a lot of money and jewlery in the safe.

Given I'm not a criminal or wannabe murderer, I'm not sure what these people were thinking.

How long do you think it will take for Gonzales Jr.'s lawyer to start making noises about "diminished capacity", given that bizarre statement about outrage over not being released on his own recognisance or at least reduced bail?

This will be a case worth following. At least we know who did it...and regardless of the reason(s), they all deserve nothing less that the DP for the shooter (or all if they knew these people would be killed), and LWOP for the rest of the gang.

IMO, of course.

[AZCHARGED]

I'm amazed there are 7 mugshots - and I don't think they have found the last suspect yet. So included in the mugshots must be the 16 yr old. Thought they couldn't do that - or is it that they just withold his name?

You thought they couldn't take a booking picture of the 16-year old? You can bet your sweet bippy they can!! What they meant was they cannot yet release the name of the "juvenile" due to age. And I have every hope that "sweet" 16-year old can be tried as an adult.

[3girls]

Snipped from WEARTV.com
One of the other men arrested, Donnie Stallworth, is an Airman at Hurlburt Field.

He's worked maintenance in the first special operations wing for nine years.

A wing spokesperson says they're cooperating with civilian investigators and everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

[Citygirl]

You thought they couldn't take a booking picture of the 16-year old? You can bet your sweet bippy they can!! What they meant was they cannot yet release the name of the "juvenile" due to age. And I have every hope that "sweet" 16-year old can be tried as an adult.


You're right..they won't publish his name or picture..yet..it will come out soon tho..

[3girls]

ESCAMBIA COUNTY - This brings the total number of suspects to seven in the deaths of Byrd and Melanie Billings who were found dead last Thursday in their Beulah home.

Here's what we learned today.

Franklin Thornton and 16-year-old Rakeem Florence, who's not pictured here, were arrested in Okaloosa County overnight.

As was Donald Stallworth Jr., who was arrested in Escambia County, Ala.

They join Gary Sumner, Wayne Coldiron, Leonard Gonzalez Jr., and Leonard Gonzalez Sr. in facing charges connected to this crime.

[n/t]

The Sheriff was on JVM and imo, he's doing a little bit of back peddling from his original statement. I don't think the DA wants the other motives out. They're saying it's robbery but I'm with those who believe there is more to this story but they won't release that information just yet for whatever reason.

This case is heartbreaking. I just sit in front of my tv shaking my head and asking why over and over again. :crying:

[KaraokeDiva]

But why would this family be targetted? They seem like nice people...not overly rich... Why would they be targetted in such a fashion???

:confused:

[Pat]

If Stallworth was stationed at Hurlburt (which is in Okaloosa County), it is an interesting side note to know Florence and Thornton were arrested there. Santa Rosa County separates Escambia and Okaloosa Counties, but it is a short drive through all three using Hwy 98 along the coast. I wonder if Stallworth lived in Santa Rosa County or Okaloosa.

I also wonder what his actual "maintenance" job was at Hurlburt. He has been stationed at Hurlburt for nine years...unusual for someone not to have rotated to another base in all that time if they are active duty. I'm betting he didn't have a trouble-free career record if he was involved with this.

And an FYI for those following this case...Most of Escambia County is in Florida...the very small NW portion is Escambia County, Alabama.

[Hey Paula]

But why would this family be targetted? They seem like nice people...not overly rich... Why would they be targetted in such a fashion???

:confused:

Hi KD!

I read they were a wealthy couple who owned several businesses in the area. I think this is why they might have been targeted.

IMO

[n/t]

Hi KD!

I read they were a wealthy couple who owned several businesses in the area. I think this is why they might have been targeted.

IMO

Your post made me think of another possible theory. Could Mr. Billings have had a falling out with someone associated with one of his businesses and these thugs were hired to carry out a job (mobster style)?

Anybody know what kind of businesses they owned? TIA

[Kip]

Billings owned at least one car dealership. I don't know what other businesses he had.

The suspects practiced for up to 30 days (some new recruits practiced less) at Gonzalez Sr's place:

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/local_news/pensacola/Authoritiessuspectspracticedcrime

[n/t]

Billings owned at least one car dealership. I don't know what other businesses he had.

The suspects practiced for up to 30 days (some new recruits practiced less) at Gonzalez Sr's place:

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/local_news/pensacola/Authoritiessuspectspracticedcrime

:scared:

From your link:

He's still very tight-lipped on the focus of those investigations, but he said they involve other businesses, other states, and other countries.

[Hey Paula]

This article mentions two of the businesses, but I believe they owned more.

EXCERPT:

PENSACOLA, Fla. - Byrd Billings, or "Bud" as he was known to friends, owned several businesses in the area. Two of those businesses are Markham Auto Sales and WorldCo financial.

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/crime/Billings_Businesses_Closed_Til_Monday

In another article I read, it stated the men who were arrested worked in auto detailing and power washing businesses. They might have known the Billings, and perhaps even worked for them.

IMO

[n/t]

Hi N/T!

This article mentions two of the businesses, but I believe they owned more.

EXCERPT:

PENSACOLA, Fla. - Byrd Billings, or "Bud" as he was known to friends, owned several businesses in the area. Two of those businesses are Markham Auto Sales and WorldCo financial.

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/crime/Billings_Businesses_Closed_Til_Monday

In another article I read, it stated the men who were arrested worked in auto detailing and power washing businesses. They might have known the Billings, and perhaps even worked for them.

IMO

Thanks Paula. I know it says "worked" for them but I wonder if they were associates for one of the businesses.

There has to be a reason why they were executed in this manner. It was premediated, planned. This was rage, imo. Gangster style.

None of the children were hurt...Thank God but I think that is another clue as to what type of crime this is.

All IMO

[RayStar]

You're right..they won't publish his name or picture..yet..it will come out soon tho..I agree and with that release will come all of the horrible deeds this teenager has done in his short time on earth.

[msgatorslayer]

Viewers comments can get good results. Someone knows someone, who knows.

http://www.pnj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090714/NEWS01/90714015&s=d&page=2#pluckcomments

I'm surprised the Sheriff is withholding the identity, for now. Many times over, I've seen the name and pic released, asap, when the juvenille is arrested for a 'life felony'. Rape, murder, etc.

[Hey Paula]

Thanks Paula. I know it says "worked" for them but I wonder if they were associates for one of the businesses.

There has to be a reason why they were executed in this manner. It was premediated, planned. This was rage, imo. Gangster style.

None of the children were hurt...Thank God but I think that is another clue as to what type of crime this is.

All IMO

I agree that it does seem like the Billings might have been intentionally "executed" (unless they were murdered because they could identify the perps, despite having worn ninja outfits). If the perps merely wanted to steal, they could have entered the house when no one was home.

I wonder if they owned all the WorldCo Financial Services businesses, even those located outside of FL?

http://www.google.com/search?q=worldco+financial&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[Adalena935]

Snipped from WEARTV.com
One of the other men arrested, Donnie Stallworth, is an Airman at Hurlburt Field.

He's worked maintenance in the first special operations wing for nine years.

A wing spokesperson says they're cooperating with civilian investigators and everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

It's amazing how many "innocent" people DA's prosecute isn't it? Obviously the law, DA's offices, ie; the govt believe the people they prosecute are guilty or they wouldn't prosecute them in court and set out to prove their guilt.

That caution applies inside a court of law, excluding the prosecution's side of the case which sets out to prove guilt they have evidence for beforehand.

These guys had the van from the video's & the safe that was recovered. I doubt the murdered couple's safe dropped from the sky into the arrested folks posession magically, or that people set out to impersonate them so they would be arrested for no reason.

Once it gets to court the judge will instruct the jurors to take the iupg concept with them into the deliberation room as it should be. But there's no law against anyone else outside the juror's deliberation room thinking whatever they please. If thinking were illegal we'd all be imprisoned for life.

[Adalena935]

That robbery was one possible motive and other states and even other courtries are possibly involved indicates these murders aren't the only ones inovlved. Sounds like the way these people were murdered is a pattern or LE wouldn't be talking about another more complex set of International crimes are linked.

[Grayson]

I think the timing is what they meant by military precision- both teams arriving at the home at the same time, and leaving the residence in such a short amount of time after getting/doing what they wanted.

However you want to interpret it. I'll call it petty breaking and entering, and you can glorify ot by calling it military precision.

[Pat]

"The primary motive in this case was home invasion robbery," Escambia County prosecutor Bill Eddins said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-14-parentslain_N.htm

When I googled this story, I also found a news site with a picture of the booking photo of the 16 yr-old. Who was also armed during this home invasion robbery.

Be sure to read the articles about this carefully. I have found nothing that implies this couple were engaged in anything illegal that might have triggered a "revenge" killing. However, there are stories claiming some of the perps have criminal ties.

[n/t]

The Escambia County Sheriff's Office has identified the 16-year-old they say was involved in the robbery and murders of Byrd and Melanie Billings.

http://www.wkrg.com/crime/article/fort-walton-teenager-arrested-in-billings-murder/184717/Jul-14-2009_8-25-pm/

[Lynden1000]

Billings owned at least one car dealership. I don't know what other businesses he had.

The suspects practiced for up to 30 days (some new recruits practiced less) at Gonzalez Sr's place:

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/local_news/pensacola/Authoritiessuspectspracticedcrime


Wow. They did their due diligence by practicing for 30 days, yet they didn't seem to know or care that the property was covered in security cameras, and they chose to drive up in the most conspicuous vehicle imaginable.

It's hard to believe they were all that stupid and inept, but I hope that's the case. It will make it easier to convict them and put the trash away!

[Debb]

Wow. They did their due diligence by practicing for 30 days, yet they didn't seem to know or care that the property was covered in security cameras, and they chose to drive up in the most conspicuous vehicle imaginable.

It's hard to believe they were all that stupid and inept, but I hope that's the case. It will make it easier to convict them and put the trash away!

People do some pretty crazy things. This case sort of reminds me of the real life case as portrayed in the book In Cold Blood, (and movie). The killers had been told a big lie while they were in prison that this wealthy family kept a bunch of money in their home safe. They walked into the house in the middle of the night, (doors were not locked) and tried to rob them. There was not a large amount of money, but they killed the entire family anyway. They both got the death penalty I think. It was such a stupid crime and just so senseless.

[Adalena935]

"The primary motive in this case was home invasion robbery," Escambia County prosecutor Bill Eddins said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-14-parentslain_N.htm

When I googled this story, I also found a news site with a picture of the booking photo of the 16 yr-old. Who was also armed during this home invasion robbery.

Be sure to read the articles about this carefully. I have found nothing that implies this couple were engaged in anything illegal that might have triggered a "revenge" killing. However, there are stories claiming some of the perps have criminal ties.

The story's there but I don't see the booking photo and would've liked to read about his having been armed. I clicked on the linked stories at the bottom too. Is it in the bottom blog posts (I didn't read those). Thanks for the link anyway. Horrible that the teenager was armed. I can't believe how some people teach their children to be criminals.

[sunnydale]

This is such a shocking story. All murders are sad but this one really makes you go ...... I'm shocked that 7-8 men even went along with it. This is a sad world we live in. I'm sadden and shocked and pray for the Florida's couple children. I'm not really for the death penalty but if there ever was a reason to use it, then this is it.

[Barbara fl.]

This is such a shocking story. All murders are sad but this one really makes you go ...... I'm shocked that 7-8 men even went along with it. This is a sad world we live in. I'm sadden and shocked and pray for the Florida's couple children. I'm not really for the death penalty but if there ever was a reason to use it, then this is it.

That is the part that really gets to me...How did so many individuals go along with such a thing...? This case has brought more tears to my eyes then any other case...Why didn't they just rob them? Why did they have to murder them? It is so senseless.....The DP by injection is too good for these guys....the chair should be brought back for them...

I believe there is still another one out there that they haven't got yet....They even rehersed for this tragic murder.....

[Leanne Weich]

Per Fox News, they're awaiting a press conference at which the Sheriff is expected to name the 8th person who is apparently a high profile person in Pensacola as well as details of investigations taking place in other counties and even outside of the USA.

[Lynden1000]

That is the part that really gets to me...How did so many individuals go along with such a thing...? This case has brought more tears to my eyes then any other case...Why didn't they just rob them? Why did they have to murder them? It is so senseless.....The DP by injection is too good for these guys....the chair should be brought back for them...

I believe there is still another one out there that they haven't got yet....They even rehersed for this tragic murder.....

It's always hard to believe that these cruel, inhumane people manage to find each other somehow.

Even if I try to "think like a criminal," it still amazes me that 8 people went along with this. Even if there is the possibility of a big payout, you have to split that payout with 7 other people and you always have to worry that even just one of those 7 people will turn and squeal.

And buying special outfits?

How do these kooks manage to find each other? Is there some sort of Facebook for criminals?

[juliekan]

who is Pamela Laverne Long?

this is all I can find

http://www.gulfbreezenews.com/news/2006/0608/Front_Page/001.html

she was one of the people trying to get a liquor license, if this is the same person they are talking about?

[BorderCollieMom]

Is there another thread going on somewhere ? Im lost.

Maybe in the middle of a merge ?

[Kip]

Is there another thread going on somewhere ? Im lost.

Maybe in the middle of a merge ?

I'm lost too. I'm guessing this Pamela person is the 8th person and was just named at the press conference - but this is speculation on my part.

[BorderCollieMom]

I'm lost too. I'm guessing this Pamela person is the 8th person and was just named at the press conference - but this is speculation on my part.


Yes and she is the landlord of "the mastermind" ?

Obama broke into the news...grrrr.

be back later

[juliekan]

New Person of interest Pamela Laverne Long
Per Presser: (no idea if spelling is correct for these aliases)

Pam Long
Pamela Lavervne Long
Pamela Long Wiggins
Pamela L. Mauldin
Pamela Long Link
Pamela Laverne Long Coco

[Barbara fl.]

I'm lost too. I'm guessing this Pamela person is the 8th person and was just named at the press conference - but this is speculation on my part.


It sounds like this Pamela Long was supposed to dislodge the security system but failed to do so.....this almost sounds like the alarm company or employees of the alarm company might have been involved.....

This is real sick.....What did they intend to net from this? It was stated that no money was kept on the premises....and how much money would it have taken to get so many people involved in such a horrible murder?

This really does sound like a movie script.....

[Kip]

In this article, Pamela Laverne Long is described as a real estate agent:

http://herald-zeitung.com/wire.lasso?report=/dynamic/stories/U/US_FLORIDA_COUPLE_SLAIN&-session=HeraldZeitung:42F9448B117551DBE3mGs42B9E85

Authorities investigating the slayings of a Florida Panhandle couple say someone who was supposed to disable the surveillance system before the break-in at their sprawling home never showed up....

They say they don't believe she was at the home when the Billingses were killed but she rented a property to one of the suspects, Leonard Gonzalez Jr.

[Barbara fl.]

It's always hard to believe that these cruel, inhumane people manage to find each other somehow.

Even if I try to "think like a criminal," it still amazes me that 8 people went along with this. Even if there is the possibility of a big payout, you have to split that payout with 7 other people and you always have to worry that even just one of those 7 people will turn and squeal.

And buying special outfits?

How do these kooks manage to find each other? Is there some sort of Facebook for criminals?


I'll never be able to figure this one out....and now a woman is involved....

I guess they must have been shaking in their pants when they saw themselves on TV after thinking that the camera's had been disconnected.....

I hope they put them all in the same cell (maybe they can discuss where they went wrong) while spending the rest of their lives in prison or worse lining up for the DP......

I believe that there will be even more arrests made beside this Pamela Long......

With all these people involved with this BIG haul, one would think that they would have done better off rehearsing for a bank heist....How much money could they have possibly thought to be in this home? The safe they took probably only had birth certificates and important papers in it....(that's what I keep in my small safe) because it's fire and water proof......

[Kip]

I could only find a Pamela M Long in real estate in Pensacola

Same here - could only find the one with M as middle initial.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,532723,00.html

...Long has several aliases and is currently in hiding or on the run, Morgan told reporters Wednesday, holding up a photo of her at a news conference....

I haven't been able to find the photo yet.

[Kip]

This link has a photo of Pamela Long:

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/crime/Billings_Murder_Person_of_Interest

...Investigators say it is Imperative they talk to her as soon as possible. Investigators are also looking at two other persons of interest...
It is the investigators belief that the suspects entered the Billings compound believing the system had been disabled.

[tv4me]

Authorities investigating the slayings say someone who was supposed to disable the surveillance system before the break-in at the home never showed up.

Morgan said Wednesday that an eighth person was supposed to turn it off but did not.

Morgan also says authorities are asking for help from the public finding a real estate agent named Pamela Laverne Long who they want to question.

Leonard Gonzalez Jr., 35, whom Morgan described as a key person in the crime, said in court Tuesday he was innocent. Police also arrested his father, Leonard Gonzalez Sr., 56, who told police he drove the getaway van.



Is it possible that Pamela is the one who told this group of idiots that there was a safe full of money in the house? As a real estate agent, could she have seen the inside of the house?

As for Leonard, didn't it say earlier that he had done some landscaping work for the murdered couple at their house?

I thought perhaps this crime had to do with "saving" the adopted children, but now I'm thinking that perhaps it was just plain greed. (A lot like In Cold Blood)

[vonna]

This is such a shocking story. All murders are sad but this one really makes you go ...... I'm shocked that 7-8 men even went along with it. This is a sad world we live in. I'm sadden and shocked and pray for the Florida's couple children. I'm not really for the death penalty but if there ever was a reason to use it, then this is it.

I certainly agree. I have such a heavy heart for those poor children. I hope those animals are punished to the full extent of the law.

[taylor63]

I wonder if Bella is from a previous relationship and mom took her? That's the only thing I can think of.

Still,,,like you say, something is fishy. Why would he not go through proper legal channels to get her? Good lord. Murdering an innocent couple to get to his daughter will get him in the slammer. Not only will he lose Bella but all 6 other kids.

There must be something more to this story.....:huh:

I bet it is drugs and money. I don't trust a word the guy said, and the nerve of him asking his bond to be lowered the other day when those children will never see their parents again this side of heaven.

[Ladyhawk]

This link has a photo of Pamela Long:

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/crime/Billings_Murder_Person_of_Interest

...Investigators say it is Imperative they talk to her as soon as possible. Investigators are also looking at two other persons of interest...
It is the investigators belief that the suspects entered the Billings compound believing the system had been disabled.

It's possible that someone doublecrossed the perps (or the leader of the perps) by not disarming the system, just told them the system would be disarmed. If the crime was so well planned there would have been a fail safe plan for the disabling of the system...I believe it is possible that this was an amature "hit" related to one of the businesses (the finance company) and the hit was given to the "gang that couldn't shoot straight" and I think that the safe was offered up as part of the payment (as in go in, kill them and whatever is in the safe is yours too). By not disabling the system, these people get caught so there's no worry that one of them will get upset that the safe was empty and come looking for them.

[jewel6]

Supposedly she owned a antique strip mall and was a realetor. she was having money troubles per fox news.

[Hey Paula]

In this article, Pamela Laverne Long is described as a real estate agent:

http://herald-zeitung.com/wire.lasso?report=/dynamic/stories/U/US_FLORIDA_COUPLE_SLAIN&-session=HeraldZeitung:42F9448B117551DBE3mGs42B9E85

Authorities investigating the slayings of a Florida Panhandle couple say someone who was supposed to disable the surveillance system before the break-in at their sprawling home never showed up....

They say they don't believe she was at the home when the Billingses were killed but she rented a property to one of the suspects, Leonard Gonzalez Jr.

This paragraph caught my eye:

From your link:

Morgan also said they are looking for a second person of interest, though he didn't identify that person. He said investigators believe Long has "significant and substantial information" needed to conclude the case.


I believe LE's interest in Ms Long is far more than what was earlier described as her renting property to Gonzalez. She is a real estate agent, so why does LE need help in locating her, unless she ran away? I wonder if she is Gonzalez' girlfriend? I wonder if she sold the Billings' house or if the Billings were thinking of selling it and were contacted by Ms Long.

Also, the fact this crime went on as scheduled leads me to believe the person, who was to disable the surveillance system, was a trusted member, and that they were to have disabled it in advance of the robbery, and that they were not supposed to be present when it went down (or the perps would have noticed the absence of this member and not proceeded with the crime if this key person didn't show up). Whoever this person is apparently knew the house well enough to know where surveillance was set and how to disable it, e.g. the person who installed it, etc.

IMO

[FallenAngel♥]

are they about to have another PC?