Adoptive parents of 14 handicapped children murdered

[Leanne Weich]

Isn't it strange though even if you've been married 3 different times and can use any of those names and your maiden name that if LE was looking for you, they'd put out all the names you could use. I'd think that would only happen if you routinely went by different names and, if that is the case, I find it extremely odd.

[trigger]

Any clues as to DEA now investigating this?

[jaxback]

Any clues as to DEA now investigating this?

Why do you think the DEA would be involved in this?:confused:

[FallenAngel♥]

Why do you think the DEA would be involved in this?:confused:

I have no clue...i was a little shocked when they announced that.

[Jim]

I wonder if killing the Billings was the main object of the operation, and the robbery was more of a payment for the thugs.
By the way Gonzalez Jr has seven kids.

Wow.. No kidding, 7 kids.
I think he's the trigger man too.
You'd think he would have a little mercy on the other parents.
Now there's 7 more kids with out a Dad.
What a shame for sure.

[courtsinsession]

just heard something weird on foxnews; they said they were looking into the background of Byrd Billings- hmmm- i thought i heard wrong; i guess you have to look into the backgrounds of victims too but they didn't say they were looking into the background of the wife.

[3girls]

No Penny, he was not related. The 16yr old was trying to become a mechanic, and he was offered a job at Fifth Dimensions. Seems he spent a lot of time with his girlfriend and their baby. Obviously not enough.

[n/t]

Just got home and trying to catch up. Thanks to all who gave updates.

Good lord. A woman is now involved and they're seeking 2 more possible suspects??

What in the world? This is unreal.:confused:

[trigger]

Why do you think the DEA would be involved in this?:confused:

Sorry had to get dinner ready. I heard it on the news conference..Ill see if I can get any news on it and get right back.

[trigger]

Just got home and trying to catch up. Thanks to all who gave updates.

Good lord. A woman is now involved and they're seeking 2 more possible suspects??

What in the world? This is unreal.:confused:

I know N/T. The worlds changing for sure. I bet this guys are spilling the beans, ratting each other out. And she knows it and took off.

[n/t]

Doubt they'll find any skeletons in Byrd's closet - anything illegal anyway. Hope not. I've been enjoying reading the comments following pnj.com articles as we go along. I remember a few days ago someone said that Byrd was "very opinionated about his kids - and his conspiracy theories". Someone else shot him down for speaking ill of the dead man, so that was that.
Someone today said that neighbors of Ms. Long reported that they had seen that red van parked at her house several times.

So there was something about a father and son, wasn't there - besides Gonzales Sr and Jr? No? I'm halucinating again? (puts down the funny cig):wink:

I don't like speaking ill of the dead but I'm sure many of us are left scratching our heads wondering what possible motives besides burglary could there be to have 8 people involved and more possible arrests? Murdering a supposedly loving couple who adopted disadvantaged children?

This is just unbelievable.

[n/t]

"Florida Slaying Suspects Didn't Expect Cameras"

http://www.wbt.com/news/details.cfm?ap_id=D99F5E183

"The accomplice assigned to turn off security cameras before an elaborate, deadly break-in at a sprawling Florida Panhandle never did, but the seven people accused of the crime apparently didn't know that, authorities said Wednesday."

Also from the article:

"David Melenkovitz, spokesman for the Drug Enforcement Administration, said Wednesday his agency is assisting in the investigation but would not comment on the case. He said Escombia County officials have also sought help from other federal agencies including the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco and Firearms."


Live PC coming up per CNN


Drug Cartel? Maybe Mr. Billings threatened to expose these monsters and paid for it with his life? Did he have valuable evidence in that safe?

[trigger]

Presser was at 930pm ET...Another one tomorrow morning.

http://www.northescambia.com/?p=9519


Arrest Records on subjects

http://www.pnj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?NoCache=1&Dato=99999999&Kategori=GRAPHICS&Lopenr=90715017&Ref=AR#top

[MiamiNice1]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/15/florida.couple.slain/index.html

Eighth person arrested in Florida couple's shooting deaths


NEW:

- Pamela Long Wiggins faces charge of accessory after the fact of felony murder

- Wiggins was family friend to alleged ringleader, rented property to him

- Authorities seeking person "associated" with home's security system

- DEA participating in investigation of Byrd and Melanie Billings' shooting deaths

[VC2]

Sheriff just said on ac360 that the DEA is NOT INVOLVED in the investigation.

says ppl got confused because in their investigation they came across things and ppl re other crimes and therefore passed it along as a courtesy to the DEA, however they are not inovled at all in the billings murder.

Also reiterated that robbery is just ONE of the motives.

All violent offenders are in custody, now they are looking at the ppl in the peripheray like the woman.

[n/t]

I have a question regarding the safe. Why would they want to take the safe and carry it out and involve all these people? Wouldn't it have been easier to just break it open or have one of the Billings open it for them? Why 7 or 8 people to invade a home? Heck these monsters practiced for days ahead. How big was this safe? Are they that stupid?

I guess I'm just trying to make sense out of this senseless crime and nothing seems to right now. Especially the murder of these loving parents. It's so frustrating and so very sad.

[3girls]

Eighth person arrested. News conference at 11am
I think this news conference is just to state she has been arrested.

[courtsinsession]

The today show showed that woman Pamela Long being arrested. did anyone else see her? she was inappropriately smiling and had a jaunty walk- it was really disgusting; she didn't look concerned one little bit.

[jewel6]

The today show showed that woman Pamela Long being arrested. did anyone else see her? she was inappropriately smiling and had a jaunty walk- it was really disgusting; she didn't look concerned one little bit.

no, i wish i had i wonder if they will have it on there website?

[Lynden1000]

The today show showed that woman Pamela Long being arrested. did anyone else see her? she was inappropriately smiling and had a jaunty walk- it was really disgusting; she didn't look concerned one little bit.

She's probably feeling smug because she expects to get away with a light sentence. She undoubtedly will claim that she failed to show up as planned because she had a last minute change of heart about the robbery and that she had no idea there was to be any killing involved.

I hope it turns out otherwise.

[jewel6]

I found it its on their website. wow she looked really smug. that was a good piece on the suspects and the billings. jmo

[trigger]

I have a question regarding the safe. Why would they want to take the safe and carry it out and involve all these people? Wouldn't it have been easier to just break it open or have one of the Billings open it for them? Why 7 or 8 people to invade a home? Heck these monsters practiced for days ahead. How big was this safe? Are they that stupid?

I guess I'm just trying to make sense out of this senseless crime and nothing seems to right now. Especially the murder of these loving parents. It's so frustrating and so very sad.

Hopefully will get more information soon. What were they going to gain from this? Why so many guys involved? All I know is that Gonzales Sr gave depo involving his son Gonzalez Jr and Wayne Coldiron to this home invasion. He said his son and Wayne were armed and that he jumped into the drivers seat after they entered the residence. He admitted to stripping the van and was re-painting it. He did not know the 3 male blacks names. Sr picked out his son and wayne in photo lineup . Wayne picked Sumner out of a photo lineup as being the driver of a light colored SUV. Thorton and Florence admitted being involved also. Jr Gonzales admitted nothing.

[jewel6]

Hopefully will get more information soon. What were they going to gain from this? Why so many guys involved? All I know is that Gonzales Sr gave depo involving his son Gonzalez Jr and Wayne Coldiron to this home invasion. He said his son and Wayne were armed and that he jumped into the drivers seat after they entered the residence. He admitted to stripping the van and was re-painting it. He did not know the 3 male blacks names. Sr picked out his son and wayne in photo lineup . Wayne picked Sumner out of a photo lineup as being the driver of a light colored SUV. Thorton and Florence admitted being involved also. Jr Gonzales admitted nothing.

They are all gonna turn on jr. i wonder if jr did the shootings if so hell get dp and they will get life for turning on him. jmo

[AZCHARGED]

It's always hard to believe that these cruel, inhumane people manage to find each other somehow.

Even if I try to "think like a criminal," it still amazes me that 8 people went along with this. Even if there is the possibility of a big payout, you have to split that payout with 7 other people and you always have to worry that even just one of those 7 people will turn and squeal.

And buying special outfits?

How do these kooks manage to find each other? Is there some sort of Facebook for criminals? (Bolding mine)

Quite often they meet in the county jail awaiting sentencing or serving time for lesser crimes.

[LILMANMAX]

One or more of them has rolled over. Probably the younger ones of the bunch.
This is a most bizarre case. :confused:

[Barbara fl.]

The today show showed that woman Pamela Long being arrested. did anyone else see her? she was inappropriately smiling and had a jaunty walk- it was really disgusting; she didn't look concerned one little bit.



Something is very wrong in this whole case.....there is much more to it....there is no way all these people would be involved with just an ordinary home invasion or break in....

This Pamela Long has been associated in the drug world with well known drug people...

It seems that they were after this safe...it could not possibly be for the days receipts...there could not have been enough to be split among all that are involved.....they were going after something much bigger.....it also seems that they had the right house, they rehearsed this for a month before going thru with it...It would have been a perfect crime had the ones that were responsible for disarming the security systems did what they were supposed to do...

It is also said that all the arrests are not finished....Pamela Long was arrested for participation after the fact....

There is absolutely no explanation as to why all these people were involved other then there had to be alot of money involved....a whole lot...

[Barbara fl.]

One or more of them has rolled over. Probably the younger ones of the bunch.
This is a most bizarre case. :confused:



It will unfold eventually...I believe what was said at the onset..."this is going to make a movie".....


They will ALL most likely bend to get themselves off of a murder rap...all except the one or ones that pulled the trigger....

[FallenAngel♥]

One or more of them has rolled over. Probably the younger ones of the bunch.
This is a most bizarre case. :confused:

I've never seen a case like this in my life....I can't wait to find out why they did this...

[AZCHARGED]

Post #330, I could not agree more. There is something going on here that has not yet come to light. There will be MUCH more to come, I am sure.

[LILMANMAX]

ITA with you Barbara

There is really something 'BIG' behind this case. I can't get past the fact 'why so many people needed?' for this crime. Like they were expecting armed guards inside or something. I know thats not the case but it is highly unusual for so many perps involved. JMO

[Barbara fl.]

I have no clue...i was a little shocked when they announced that.



LE has already found connections with some of the perps with the drug world....that is probably why the DEA has been brought in....usually people that are involved in the drug world don't go for simple home invasions....

Pamela Long has ties to the drug world....

[AZCHARGED]

Can't imagine any valid reason unless she was married a whole lot of times.

Four names = married and divorced/widowed three times. Actually, for an older woman (and she appears to be at least 50) that is not terribly unusual. Maybe she is younger and has not aged well. I am sure we will hear soon.

I'm thinking maybe she TOLD them she had disabled the security system but couldn't go through with it, or maybe bungled it. She was likely romantically involved with one of the suspects, is my thinking. But then, I've been wrong before!

[Barbara fl.]

ITA with you Barbara

There is really something 'BIG' behind this case. I can't get past the fact 'why so many people needed?' for this crime. Like they were expecting armed guards inside or something. I know thats not the case but it is highly unusual for so many perps involved. JMO



Way too much involvement for a simple break in to family home...Why would anyone go along with such a thing if there wasn't something big in it for all of them....

They knew what they were going in for, they were only inside for 4 minutes.....they murdered 2 people and got a safe out of the home in that short time....so they deffinetly planned this to a T...the only thing that went wrong was the person that was due to disarm the security system...didn't do it....

There is just no way that this amount of people would be involved...would rehearse for a month...buy clothing to suit the raid...if they weren't promised big money for their participation....

I can not wait for this thing to unfold.....

[justmy2cents]

I felt sad when i heard what they said about the 16 year old..i just pray that he is not the one who panicked and shot the parents. Makes more sense for a teen to panic but these jerks should never have taken him along or given him a gun! Yes i know he made a choice but while robbery may seem cool or if as i think it had more to do with adoption papers as opposed to pure cash he may have felt he was helping right a wrong..kids can be sooo stupid. he threw his life away for 4 minutes of nothing.

(yes i am one who believes that kids do not have the same capacity as adults to understand the long term consequences of their actions which is why the don't sign contracts, and i also believe kids can change dramatically between 16 and 21)

jmo

eta and its a sad irony that the very ppl who loved children in need...had a child involved in their death

OT
bbm: I agree with you whole heartedly on this, unfortunately my 15 year old son doesn't seem to agree....:thumbsup:

[Barbara fl.]

Drug Cartel? Maybe Mr. Billings threatened to expose these monsters and paid for it with his life? Did he have valuable evidence in that safe?



I too was thinking along that as ONE reason for this.....we will have to wait fr all to unfold to get to the bottom of this....

I wish it would hurry along....

[Lovethechild]

IMO

The "ringleader" duped the rest of the "gang".......maybe lied to them that he/she knew for a fact that they had a safe full of cash/valubles.

Lied to them that the surveillance was disabled


This just screams "hit" to me....but why, would this person want the B's dead?? IDK

[Lynden1000]

I still can't believe they thought they'd get away with this, even if the security system had been disabled as planned.

Crooks know that other crooks squeal. It's unlikely that eight people would all be able to keep their mouths shut. Somebody would eventually brag, or somebody would get paranoid that others were talking, or someone would kill another for his share and get caught.

They had to know that involving this many people would doom them.

That motive must've been huge!

[LILMANMAX]

And another thought.
Many times when crimes are committed with this many perps involved, some of these perps end up dead before they can be arrested. KWIM

The ring leader never wants many talking heads wondering around. JMO

[Barbara fl.]

IMO

The "ringleader" duped the rest of the "gang".......maybe lied to them that he/she knew for a fact that they had a safe full of cash/valubles.

Lied to them that the surveillance was disabled


This just screams "hit" to me....but why, would this person want the B's dead?? IDK



In my opinion...this was deffinetly a hit...they were sent there to murder these 2 people and get that safe....I think the safe will hold a lot of information (that's if the contents weren't removed before LE got it)...

I believe that these people were paid for this from an outside person or persons....It could not have been for the safe containing money...if anyone keeps large amount of money in a home safe they wouldn't tell anyone at all....Somebody knew of this safe and it's contents...they also wanted the Billing's dead.....

I just hope that the cntents weren't removed by these perps first....but if what ever they were after is still in there it will tell a whole lot......jmo

[Barbara fl.]

And another thought.
Many times when crimes are committed with this many perps involved, some of these perps end up dead before they can be arrested. KWIM

The ring leader never wants many talking heads wondering around. JMO


Your right....they probably didn't have time to do it...they were all arrested pretty fast, due to those camers being left on...


I guess in a round about way those camera's could be considered as saving their lives..

[AZCHARGED]

Press conference delayed ... Fox: Kimberly Guilfoyle reported that Pamela Long Wiggins is being charged with aiding or assisting in the crime, knowing it was a felony which can carry up to a 30 year sentence. Her actions after the crime show a consciousness of guilt (fleeing to Alabama). She was landlord to the apparent ringleader. PLW was charged in 1988 with Grand Theft, but the charge was reduced to petty theft for which she plead guilty. Stallworth (one of the males arrested) has served five tours in Iraq and has Special Forces training.

Press conference delayed again, to start noon eastern time. Sheriff is in consultation with State's Attorney about evidence now being gathered. This is about evidence gathered at marina.

[darcie]

I haven't had a chance to even read the thread yet. But I have been trying to keep up with this on the news. Note that I said TRYING! I guess i have been getting just bits and pieces,but this case just makes my head spin.

I can't keep up, and keep thinking what in the world was the plan? Robbery? And if they had been planning and practicing like reported, how come the big error of the security camera's?

I'll have to read the thread because I know you sleuthers and news junkies (mean no offense by that) have all the little tidbits.

One big question of mine is....are any of these people related to the murdered parents???

[Barbara fl.]

Press conference delayed ... Fox: Kimberly Guilfoyle reported that Pamela Long Wiggins is being charged with aiding or assisting in the crime, knowing it was a felony which can carry up to a 30 year sentence. Her actions after the crime show a consciousness of guilt (fleeing to Alabama). She was landlord to the apparent ringleader. PLW was charged in 1988 with Grand Theft, but the charge was reduced to petty theft for which she plead guilty. Stallworth (one of the males arrested) has served five tours in Iraq and has Special Forces training.

Press conference delayed again, to start noon eastern time. Sheriff is in consultation with State's Attorney about evidence now being gathered. This is about evidence gathered at marina.


Thanks for the info...I was just tuned into HLN and had to watch "Ashley Bansfield" (whom I do not care to watch) but nothing was said about the Billings case....

I'll tune into fox at 12.....I hope they have more to tell on this case....it'
s driving me up a wall.....

[CANDYKISSES]

Sheriff just said on ac360 that the DEA is NOT INVOLVED in the investigation.

says ppl got confused because in their investigation they came across things and ppl re other crimes and therefore passed it along as a courtesy to the DEA, however they are not inovled at all in the billings murder.

Also reiterated that robbery is just ONE of the motives.

All violent offenders are in custody, now they are looking at the ppl in the peripheray like the woman.

VC, looking for confirmation on something I heard on local news too.

Did one of the family members of the alleged ringleader tell LE about the fascination with "RED DAWN" and seeing him re-enact some of it? :confused:

These people sound like a bunch of nuts who just happened to find each other absent the person in charge of cameras....:biggrin:

Thank goodness for that idiot or God knows what would be sitting in front of these people right now. JMOOC.

[Barbara fl.]

Yikes! That's not unusual? Widowed three times and married and divorced? It's unusual where I come from.

An older woman? At least 50 is an older woman? Not where I come from?

imo


It was said that she is 46 years old....

Widowed 3 times...seems a little odd to me.....

And (50) is young to me.....:laugh:

[CANDYKISSES]

Yikes! That's not unusual? Widowed three times and married and divorced? It's unusual where I come from.

An older woman? At least 50 is an older woman? Not where I come from?

imo

:scared:It's unusual here too. When I saw all the AKA's on her I was sitting in my seat like this.....:scared: WOW and she looks pretty harmless IMO.

[Barbara fl.]

VC, looking for confirmation on something I heard on local news too.

Did one of the family members of the alleged ringleader tell LE about the fascination with "RED DAWN" and seeing him re-enact some of it? :confused:

These people sound like a bunch of nuts who just happened to find each other absent the person in charge of cameras....:biggrin:

Thank goodness for that idiot or God knows what would be sitting in front of these people right now. JMOOC.




Oh, I can assure you that this case is a little more then just a bunch of nuts play acting out a fascination.....

Unless they belonged to a club of such (which I doubt very strongly) they were getting paid for their involvement, by even another party that hasn't been arrested yet.......JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

I heard the Sheriff say that the DEA was involved also - but then at the next presser (when they announced they found Ms Long in AL) he said that he was asked not to comment at all on the other agencies involved.

JVM says they are planning another presser this evening. More arrests planned.

I think they're still really having to sift through some of this penny. Just think, they probably have some really great liars in the interview stages who want to turn on the others and sifting fact from fiction must be one hell of a job in itself.

Keeping in mind anything other than BURGULARY thrown into the mix can significantly change charges and consequences, I'm sure they are committed to landing secure charges for the State's Attorney. JMO:unsure:

[Barbara fl.]

I think they're still really having to sift through some of this penny. Just think, they probably have some really great liars in the interview stages who want to turn on the others and sifting fact from fiction must be one hell of a job in itself.

Keeping in mind anything other than BURGULARY thrown into the mix can significantly change charges and consequences, I'm sure they are committed to landing secure charges for the State's Attorney. JMO:unsure:



I do believe that the 16 year old will talk....but who knows if he knows alot....he might have just went along for the ride.....

[Pat]

I have a question regarding the safe. Why would they want to take the safe and carry it out and involve all these people? Wouldn't it have been easier to just break it open or have one of the Billings open it for them? Why 7 or 8 people to invade a home? Heck these monsters practiced for days ahead. How big was this safe? Are they that stupid?

I guess I'm just trying to make sense out of this senseless crime and nothing seems to right now. Especially the murder of these loving parents. It's so frustrating and so very sad.

Oh, the rich irony of these people "practicing" to be able to get in and out in 4 minutes (the reason, IMO, the safe was removed rather than broken into)...then to have every movement caught on tape! :laugh:

BBM---yes, they were that stupid, but Gonzalez Jr. thought he was smarter than everyone else. Now he looks like an idiot that I hope will get the death penalty.

I've given up on trying to make sense of "senseless" crimes. I don't have a criminal mind and simply can't think like one. I'd rather get up every day and go to work and earn my living honestly, as opposed to stealing it from someone else.

[AZCHARGED]

It was said that she is 46 years old....

Widowed 3 times...seems a little odd to me.....

And (50) is young to me.....:laugh:

Well, LOL, I live in a RETIREMENT community, so 50 is a YOUNGSTER to me, too!! (Not necessarily widowed -- widowed/divorced -- whatever would cause a name change -- or just maybe changed for the hek of it!!)

[Debb]

There are people who will kill someone for $100., so these suspects could have an entirely different view on how much money made it worth it to commit this crime. If they had been told by someone who said they knew, even if they didn't, that there was $100,000. in the safe, they may have thought it worth it to each get around $10,000. People are killed for much less than that all the time.

I once knew some people who kept a lot of cash in a home safe. I never thought it was smart, but it was their practice. They would pull it out to make cash purchases on cars, furniture and trips. If the wrong person gets word of it, you could be in danger.

[CANDYKISSES]

The today show showed that woman Pamela Long being arrested. did anyone else see her? she was inappropriately smiling and had a jaunty walk- it was really disgusting; she didn't look concerned one little bit.

I just saw a repeat of that and was left shaking my head. I guess some of these people don't realize the consequences they may be facing after two human beings were heinously murdered. JMO:thumbdown:

[AZCHARGED]

Presser delayed again. Sheriff and State Atty still in conference. Only new info given on FOXNews is that LE has another person of interest who was supposed to remotely turn off the security system.

[AJandTam]

How did they rehearse as one article said?? The Real estate agent get them a blue print of the house? Seems the B's were seriously betrayed by someone. Someone close to them had to have fed these people information. Where the safe was kept ect. Plus, have knowledge on turning off the security equipment? This must be the person that Barb is talking about. The one who wanted them dead. I do think she must be right on this.. Someone w/big money wanted someone to kill these people.. Someone who knew them well IMHO. Someone gained from thier death. I don't know who but someone?? I"m fearing maybe a grown child or business partner?? I don't know. I'm just talking as this one has me a bit stumped.....One article I read early this morning said these people didn't even know each other well, and here they were pulling off a crime together like this. NO worries?? Confused.

[AJandTam]

Presser delayed again. Sheriff and State Atty still in conference. Only new info given on FOXNews is that LE has another person of interest who was supposed to remotely turn off the security system.

Anybody know how that works? Turning off a security system remotely?

[JD1974]

I'm getting just a little bit mixed up over here because I can only follow this w/a short amount of time. Some of these people have a criminal background but not all. If i'm getting this right, some of them it makes sense for them to be doing a robbery but not all?? I'm on the same page w/this as you are right now. I don't think this was a simple robbery, and I can't imagine why they would take a kid of 16 into a group w/middle aged experienced men.. A karate expert and possibly and air force guy mixed w/druggies and people w/bad back grounds.. It's just has a cause feel to me.. then a 16 year old. I'm kind of rambing here, I know.. ??

New to this case but when you lay it out like that it almost sounds like a whodunit on a soap opera....imo

[AJandTam]

New to this case but when you lay it out like that it almost sounds like a whodunit on a soap opera....imo

Sorry JD, I'm all over the map w/this one. Can't make a lick of sense out of what we are hearing. The stumper for me is the amount of folks involved, hard working people w/jobs.. Air force guy, karate teacher, real estate agent .. .then lawn guys, and window cleaners and a 16 year old kid.. I'm looking for the tie that binds. They weren't all buddies so how in the heck..

[LILMANMAX]

Did anyone get anything out of the presser besides the Billings are not under investigation by the DEA ? :confused:

I never thought they were.
This is some kind of twisted case. JMO

You better believe one or more of the perps are TALKING LOUD. Gotta be those younger ones.

[AJandTam]

Did anyone get anything out of the presser besides the Billings are not under investigation by the DEA ? :confused:

I never thought they were.
This is some kind of twisted case. JMO

You better believe one or more of the perps are TALKING LOUD. Gotta be those younger ones.

LOL Lil. I wish they would talk a bit louder so one of us could hear them..:biggrin:

[Citygirl]

Anybody know how that works? Turning off a security system remotely?


There may be systems that you can access from your phone or from a computer..
hey darlin..:seeya:

[LILMANMAX]

LOL Lil. I wish they would talk a bit louder so one of us could hear them..:biggrin:


You bet thats the only way we will get any details. LOL

[taylor63]

Wow.. No kidding, 7 kids.
I think he's the trigger man too.
You'd think he would have a little mercy on the other parents.
Now there's 7 more kids with out a Dad.
What a shame for sure.

Their better off without a monster like that for a dad.

[taylor63]

Sorry JD, I'm all over the map w/this one. Can't make a lick of sense out of what we are hearing. The stumper for me is the amount of folks involved, hard working people w/jobs.. Air force guy, karate teacher, real estate agent .. .then lawn guys, and window cleaners and a 16 year old kid.. I'm looking for the tie that binds. They weren't all buddies so how in the heck..

It's possible they were drug addicts or crack heads, etc... they come from all walks of life. These people will do anything to get a fix,some will even go as far as murder,and if these people knew this couple had alot of money,which they apparently did, that is what was the main motivating factor.

[AZCHARGED]

Report on press conference for those of you without coverage:

Sheriff asked for humanity and compassion for the Billings Family -- we are talking about people's lives.

DEA is providing investigative assistance at the request of Escambia Co S.O. The Sheriff wanted to state, and restate: The Billings Family is not the focus of any investigation, to the best of his knowledge, by the DEA. He is not sure where that started. He asks again consideration for the family.

He turned the mic over to Bill Eddins, FL State Attorney, who reported that the safe has been located which is being processed. Several guns have been located one of which is believed to be the murder weapon. Announced again person who has been arrested for Accessory after the Fact of Murder. Anticipates this first degree felony charge will be made after grand jury meets. He believes this concludes the major part of the investigation. Info will be consolidated. Believes this was a home invasion robbery where the people stole a safe and safe was recovered. Personally believes it was as simple as that.

Sheriff agreed basically with Eddins, however believes additional motives will be found. Sheriff said "But understand something, in law enforcement, on the investigative side, it is what it is, and you follow the leads that are developed and not your speculation." Have 20-30 people of interest we have questioned. We believe we have a couple more to question, but hopefully are at the end of this investigation.

***
I like this Sheriff.

[Debb]

What time was this crime committed? I thought it was in the middle of the night, but the video looks like it is daylight. Is in infra red light?

[AJandTam]

There may be systems that you can access from your phone or from a computer..
hey darlin..:seeya:

Hey Citygirl. Good to see ya.

To access it, wouldn't you have to have codes and other information?? Not just anyone should be able to do it, I would think, as IF they could? Just wondering about inside info from someone who betrayed the B's.. ??

[AJandTam]

You bet thats the only way we will get any details. LOL

I know. I'm wondering if that "Sunshine law" is going to help us any??

[AJandTam]

It's possible they were drug addicts or crack heads, etc... they come from all walks of life. These people will do anything to get a fix,some will even go as far as murder,and if these people knew this couple had alot of money,which they apparently did, that is what was the main motivating factor.

Hey Taylor

Seems drugs are going to play a role somehow. As the DEA is involved. But what in the heck does that have to do w/the Billings or is it a side crime they found in the process of investigating this case. They did say the B's didn't have anything to do w/the drugs.. so maybe you are right. They meet because of something to do w/drugs?

[AJandTam]

Report on press conference for those of you without coverage:

Sheriff asked for humanity and compassion for the Billings Family -- we are talking about people's lives.

DEA is providing investigative assistance at the request of Escambia Co S.O. The Sheriff wanted to state, and restate: The Billings Family is not the focus of any investigation, to the best of his knowledge, by the DEA. He is not sure where that started. He asks again consideration for the family.

He turned the mic over to Bill Eddins, FL State Attorney, who reported that the safe has been located which is being processed. Several guns have been located one of which is believed to be the murder weapon. Announced again person who has been arrested for Accessory after the Fact of Murder. Anticipates this first degree felony charge will be made after grand jury meets. He believes this concludes the major part of the investigation. Info will be consolidated. Believes this was a home invasion robbery where the people stole a safe and safe was recovered. Personally believes it was as simple as that.

Sheriff agreed basically with Eddins, however believes additional motives will be found. Sheriff said "But understand something, in law enforcement, on the investigative side, it is what it is, and you follow the leads that are developed and not your speculation." Have 20-30 people of interest we have questioned. We believe we have a couple more to question, but hopefully are at the end of this investigation.

***
I like this Sheriff.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm "It is what it is?" Interesting... "the leads that are developed and not your speculation"... is he hinting at something w/that statement??

[AJandTam]

What time was this crime committed? I thought it was in the middle of the night, but the video looks like it is daylight. Is in infra red light?

Deb this is one weird aspect of the case. It was around 7ish (pm), as I understand it..

[LILMANMAX]

And another thought of mine.
I just do not see this as a 'hired hit'. JMO

How many does it take to pull off a hit? :confused:
Robbery must be the main motive.

Makes no sense to me.
But of course alot of things make no sense to me.

[Kip]

Deb this is one weird aspect of the case. It was around 7ish (pm), as I understand it..

Yep, weird...still daylight then. Even if the security cameras had been turned off, how many people driving by might have seen that red 15-passenger van (it's probably the only one in the whole county).

[Kip]

The woman charged with abetting the team who allegedly gunned down Florida couple Byrd and Melanie Billings owns nearly a dozen properties in three states, a Rolls Royce, a yacht and is practically swimming in unexplained money, her estranged husband toldABC News. ..."She knew some people, good fellas, henchmen, she once told me about," Malden told "GMA."



http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8096669&page=1

[AJandTam]

And another thought of mine.
I just do not see this as a 'hired hit'. JMO

How many does it take to pull off a hit? :confused:
Robbery must be the main motive.

Makes no sense to me.
But of course alot of things make no sense to me.

I"m w/you Lil. I'm making no sense of this at all. There are so many problems w/adding this many people to the mix.. So why was it necessary?

To many people to keep quiet
To many to split the loot w/.
To many people adds mistake risk
To many people to betray you to get your share of the loot.

I'm sure even more reasons to not have this many involved.

[Citygirl]

Hey Citygirl. Good to see ya.

To access it, wouldn't you have to have codes and other information?? Not just anyone should be able to do it, I would think, as IF they could? Just wondering about inside info from someone who betrayed the B's.. ??


Yep..you have to have the codes to do anything..are any of the perps employees of a security company..or connected in any way..married to someone in the office with access to records..
that's just a wild thought tho..until we get more info I guess I'll be havin more wild thoughts..always good to see you sweetheart..

[AJandTam]

Yep, weird...still daylight then. Even if the security cameras had been turned off, how many people driving by might have seen that red 15-passenger van (it's probably the only one in the whole county).

I agree. The van was a color people would notice. It was old and big.. I wouldn't have used that vehicle. I'd of been afraid it was so old it would have broke down at the scene and got me into trouble..

[AJandTam]

People in the area a speculating (as are we) about all kinds of things - like Gonzales Jr. search for his child. But I think that people's speculation about Byrd maybe being involved in something is upsetting for them. He was a loved a respected man and he did nothing to bring this on himself and his family, IMO

I hear ya Penny. I hope you are right about the Billings not being involved in anything bad, that brought this upon them..The quest for honorable people may actually be a bit complicated. When we are young, we believe in good people and bad people but as we age. We come to realize, we can't hold people, in such high regards, everyone has thier poison.. Sad but I think that might be true..

[Kip]

I"m w/you Lil. I'm making no sense of this at all. There are so many problems w/adding this many people to the mix.. So why was it necessary?

To many people to keep quiet
To many to split the loot w/.
To many people adds mistake risk
To many people to betray you to get your share of the loot.

I'm sure even more reasons to not have this many involved.

I agree. It makes no sense to involve this many people in either a hit or a robbery.

I wonder if everyone they invited in accepted the invitation to join their plot or if anyone turned the opportunity down.

Someone on the Pensacola Daily Journal site refers to Gonzalez, Jr as Knucklehead Jr. Perfect! This group is a real collection of knuckleheads.

[AJandTam]

Yep..you have to have the codes to do anything..are any of the perps employees of a security company..or connected in any way..married to someone in the office with access to records..
that's just a wild thought tho..until we get more info I guess I'll be havin more wild thoughts..always good to see you sweetheart..

It seems to have that information. You would have to work for the security system, have a device that can decode these things and know alot about security systems OR be an insider?? As far as I know, they have not arrested anyone close to the family.. I"ve not heard how long these people had lived at that address. Could the Real estate agent known this info? Recently bought or was about to sell the property???

[AJandTam]

I agree. It makes no sense to involve this many people in either a hit or a robbery.

I wonder if everyone they invited in accepted the invitation to join their plot or if anyone turned the opportunity down.

Someone on the Pensacola Daily Journal site refers to Gonzalez, Jr as Knucklehead Jr. Perfect! This group is a real collection of knuckleheads.

No it doesn't make any sense at all. I do see "knucklehead" factors here. The time of day, the vehicle used, not knowing your "knucklehead" buddy didn't turn off the security system, too many involved, to many people in the home. We've even heard reports that these people didn't know each other very well. I don't know about you but if I was going to do something that could put me in the pokey, I wouldn't do it w/folks I didn't know well enough to trust. Especially if Big bucks were involved and these folks might kill me off to get my share.

For some odd reason, this case reminds me of the show "Leverage"..although they dn't kill people in the show.. Real people who watch to much tv might get ideas and try to plan something like that.. only it's not tv.. Crazy thought, I know but this is what kind of impression i'm getting..

Don't ya get somewhat of a "Drama Queen" feel here. Ninja suits, going into the house from the front and the back.. Rehearsing? I dont' know, maybe it's just me..

[Citygirl]

It seems to have that information. You would have to work for the security system, have a device that can decode these things and know alot about security systems OR be an insider?? As far as I know, they have not arrested anyone close to the family.. I"ve not heard how long these people had lived at that address. Could the Real estate agent known this info? Recently bought or was about to sell the property???


I'm sure LE is lookin into the security aspect..I can't imagine a real estate person having the code unless the property was vacant..
I guess we are all anxious to know stuff we are just comin up with any scenario we can..sounds like the police are really on top of this so we should know soon..plus so many are involved many will be scramblin to give it up and make a good deal for themselves..

[AJandTam]

I'm sure LE is lookin into the security aspect..I can't imagine a real estate person having the code unless the property was vacant..
I guess we are all anxious to know stuff we are just comin up with any scenario we can..sounds like the police are really on top of this so we should know soon..plus so many are involved many will be scramblin to give it up and make a good deal for themselves..

I agree City. The LE have "Busted" this bunch. I'm sure if there was a security system company guy who was involved, they will catch him. I say the Real estate agent because they've tied her name to the security system/surv equipment issue in reports. I was just thinking maybe the B's were going to sell this house for another and maybe didn't want alot of attention draw to the property like signs.. I don't know. Like you say, it's all so puzzling we are just speculating and guessing..scatching our heads while we wait for details to come out..

[AJandTam]

The one who was supposed to turn off the system - clearly from a remote location or these fools would have known they had dropped the ball - may be the next Person oF Interest we will see arrested. It can't have been one of the men currently in custody or they would have know they were being watched on video. I guess it could be the Wiggins/Long lady - but she was good friends with Poff/Gonzales Jr.
If she didn't or couldn't turn it off wouldn't she have called her buddy and suggested he reschedule the invasion? Surely they have cell phones, don't they? Or did they leave cell phones behind so as not to get caught by a call coming thru a nearby tower?

SO I hear they think they have the murder weapon (still being tested). Any news about the 2nd car? Did they find it yet?

Afternoon Penny.. I'm w/you. The whole security system/camera's thing is a big issue. Seems they would have developed some kind of communications to let the others know it was off before they went charging in.. After all, they rehearsed for a month. Right? Even if it was a signal of some kind.

I haven't heard anything about them finding the 2nd vehicle. I might have missed it though, as I can only follow a couple of hours per day.. Darn it. Real life is a drain on my darn fun.. Grrrrrrrr

[msgatorslayer]

No it doesn't make any sense at all. I do see "knucklehead" factors here. The time of day, the vehicle used, not knowing your "knucklehead" buddy didn't turn off the security system, too many involved, to many people in the home. We've even heard reports that these people didn't know each other very well. I don't know about you but if I was going to do something that could put me in the pokey, I wouldn't do it w/folks I didn't know well enough to trust. Especially if Big bucks were involved and these folks might kill me off to get my share.

For some odd reason, this case reminds me of the show "Leverage"..although they dn't kill people in the show.. Real people who watch to much tv might get ideas and try to plan something like that.. only it's not tv.. Crazy thought, I know but this is what kind of impression i'm getting..

Don't ya get somewhat of a "Drama Queen" feel here. Ninja suits, going into the house from the front and the back.. Rehearsing? I dont' know, maybe it's just me..

Hey Tam!

ITA the circumstances of this case are bizarre. After all the planning, all the peeps involved, how could they have went in there not knowing for sure the cameras were off? Could it simply be a 'knucklehead' moment, as you say, lol? Like when a big time drug dealer gets pulled over with pounds of drugs because his tail light is out?

It is also MOO that they must have thought there was ALOT of money, or something, in that home, for all involved to split, making it worth killing 2 people.

How they thought they'd get away with this, [if it wasn't tapped] also has me curious. They barely knew one another. Pulling off a heist [whatever was in that safe] and killing people over it with a bunch of strangers would have me watching my back. People talk! Greed sets in, etc.

[VC2]

Report on press conference for those of you without coverage:

Sheriff asked for humanity and compassion for the Billings Family -- we are talking about people's lives.

DEA is providing investigative assistance at the request of Escambia Co S.O. The Sheriff wanted to state, and restate: The Billings Family is not the focus of any investigation, to the best of his knowledge, by the DEA. He is not sure where that started. He asks again consideration for the family.

He turned the mic over to Bill Eddins, FL State Attorney, who reported that the safe has been located which is being processed. Several guns have been located one of which is believed to be the murder weapon. Announced again person who has been arrested for Accessory after the Fact of Murder. Anticipates this first degree felony charge will be made after grand jury meets. He believes this concludes the major part of the investigation. Info will be consolidated. Believes this was a home invasion robbery where the people stole a safe and safe was recovered. Personally believes it was as simple as that.

Sheriff agreed basically with Eddins, however believes additional motives will be found. Sheriff said "But understand something, in law enforcement, on the investigative side, it is what it is, and you follow the leads that are developed and not your speculation." Have 20-30 people of interest we have questioned. We believe we have a couple more to question, but hopefully are at the end of this investigation.

***
I like this Sheriff.

I do too! one of the few sheriffs that really has impressed me with both their compassion and professionalism. He goes beyond just what is expected, it was really touching the other PC when he brought the daughter there to publicly say he was pleased to tell her that they did what she asked, found the people responsible.

i do find it sad that he had to remind ppl essentially that the billings were victims.

imo

[AJandTam]

LOVE your posts by the way. They are always informative, of course; but the "Knucklehead" and "Drama Queen" images are just SO wonderful and absolutely spot-on. We get so used to hearing of perps as being monsters, etc - your images are so very much more correct as well as refreshing. I love Gonzales whining that they got nothing on him, etc: he is definitely the Drama Queen as well as one of the childish wannabe ninja knuckleheads. When 48 hours or some such TV show gets ready to do this case they should let you write the commentary for it!

Thanks Penny. I like yours too.. If this wasn't a real case, it would sound like a slapstick comedy.

[Lovethechild]

Yep..you have to have the codes to do anything..are any of the perps employees of a security company..or connected in any way..married to someone in the office with access to records..
that's just a wild thought tho..until we get more info I guess I'll be havin more wild thoughts..always good to see you sweetheart..

Some security systems have a keyfob to arm and dis-arm the system..could one of these people have gotton a hold of one of the B's keyfobs?

[AJandTam]

Hey Tam!

ITA the circumstances of this case are bizarre. After all the planning, all the peeps involved, how could they have went in there not knowing for sure the cameras were off? Could it simply be a 'knucklehead' moment, as you say, lol? Like when a big time drug dealer gets pulled over with pounds of drugs because his tail light is out?

It is also MOO that they must have thought there was ALOT of money, or something, in that home, for all involved to split, making it worth killing 2 people.

How they thought they'd get away with this, [if it wasn't tapped] also has me curious. They barely knew one another. Pulling off a heist [whatever was in that safe] and killing people over it with a bunch of strangers would have me watching my back. People talk! Greed sets in, etc.

Hey MsG.. I really, really want to know what was in that safe. W/these folks luck. It'll probably turn out to be nothing special just some every day papers that aren't worth a thing to anyone..

[VC2]

sheriff will be on shep smith at 3 pm

[msgatorslayer]

As soon as this case hit the news, I thought of the X-Box murders because of the amount of people involved.

That was a senseless, horrible crime, they even killed the dog. But they were all young thugs, pizzed off because they accused the people of stealing a gaming system. They had the wolf pack mentality where they just stormed the house and started killing.

Some of the men in this case had careers and families. How did they end up doing this?:sad:

[msgatorslayer]

Hey MsG.. I really, really want to know what was in that safe. W/these folks luck. It'll probably turn out to be nothing special just some every day papers that aren't worth a thing to anyone..

Just like in "In Cold Blood', right? There was no money. They did it and got nothing.

I hope we find out what, if anything was in there.

One of the guys worked at the house, correct? He must have snooped around and formed the plan to rob them.

[AJandTam]

As soon as this case hit the news, I thought of the X-Box murders because of the amount of people involved.

That was a senseless, horrible crime, they even killed the dog. But they were all young thugs, pizzed off because they accused the people of stealing a gaming system. They had the wolf pack mentality where they just stormed the house and started killing.

Some of the men in this case had careers and families. How did they end up doing this?:sad:

I think, I remember that case. Two or three years ago? The bums had been breakiing in and living in the grandparents house while they were out of town or something like that.. w/out permission. The granddaughter came in to live or something and they killed her and her friends? Wasn't that in Florida too. It's been so long ago. I cna't remember all of the details.

[AJandTam]

Just like in "In Cold Blood', right? There was no money. They did it and got nothing.

I hope we find out what, if anything was in there.

One of the guys worked at the house, correct? He must have snooped around and formed the plan to rob them.

Not sure if anyone worked inside the house, did some outside work, I think. But may have brought them in to pay them or something.

Darn it, my times up. I'll check back in as soon as possible to see what the sheriff says in the interview..

[VC2]

As soon as this case hit the news, I thought of the X-Box murders because of the amount of people involved.

That was a senseless, horrible crime, they even killed the dog. But they were all young thugs, pizzed off because they accused the people of stealing a gaming system. They had the wolf pack mentality where they just stormed the house and started killing.

Some of the men in this case had careers and families. How did they end up doing this?:sad:

i don't get it either. Sure gonzales has a history but one was active military, another taught self defense to children, one was a father of another perp, one was a 16 year old, one a seemingly successful and wealthy realtor whether or not she had explained the money.

It has to be one of the most bizarre groups for a simple robbery ever. I still think it has more to do with papers than money, if they wanted money with a group this large they may as well have gone all the way and robbed a bank vault. If they wanted to rob a wealthy home and get a safe, there were far more well to do homes without the sort of massive internal and external security this one had so they could always keep an eye on the many children including those with special needs.

As far as rolling over goes, i think Gonzales senior is the one rolling the most, he started it and i doubt he is stopping. He even gave cops the name of his son.

IMO

eta and with the knowledge that one or two did some work outside the house, well i doubt that was the only well to do home they did work outside of the house for. Just trying to say that it makes no sense unless it was some type of "cause" be it to find gonzales missing daughter or make a statement about kids being "stolen" or something like that. It just doesn't make sense to spend a month training for nothing more than some cash and jewels in probably one of the most secure places around..even if the main system was turned off it would not surprise me if there was more than one security system.

IMO

[Myka]

go to www.wkrg.com it is the CBS affli out of Mobile, they are reporting that Wiggins helped hide the safe


I was looking for a story I saw on WKRG the other day about Gonzales Sr & Jr where Jr told a couple that his him was destroyed by Hurricane Ivan and need to place to rent. The couples goes on to say that Sr posed as the Police Chief of a small Alabama town ( or sherriff) and confirmed that Jr lost his home in Ivan.....of course it was all a lie

when I find it, I'll post the link

[msgatorslayer]

go to www.wkrg.com it is the CBS affli out of Mobile, they are reporting that Wiggins helped hide the safe


I was looking for a story I saw on WKRG the other day about Gonzales Sr & Jr where Jr told a couple that his him was destroyed by Hurricane Ivan and need to place to rent. The couples goes on to say that Sr posed as the Police Chief of a small Alabama town ( or sherriff) and confirmed that Jr lost his home in Ivan.....of course it was all a lie

when I find it, I'll post the link

I heard that same story [posing as LE] on a national outlet lastnight.

So, LE has found the safe but won't say what was in it. Wonder if there was anything left. Also, does anyone close to the family know what was suppose to be in there.

[Myka]

I heard that same story [posing as LE] on a national outlet lastnight.

So, LE has found the safe but won't say what was in it. Wonder if there was anything left. Also, does anyone close to the family know what was suppose to be in there.


:mad: they say Wiggins was freed. she bonded out

I have been working doubles for the last week, getting ready for the National Gov Convention (or whatever it's called) this weekend and haven't had time to post anything on this very sad story.

[msgatorslayer]

:mad: they say Wiggins was freed. she bonded out

I have been working doubles for the last week, getting ready for the National Gov Convention (or whatever it's called) this weekend and haven't had time to post anything on this very sad story.

I'd be to embarrassed to bail out and face my family. And I'd also worry about my own safety.

Only a 10k bond for accessory to murder? That is to low, IMO.:cursing:

[msgatorslayer]

Only $10,000 bond and off she goes!
She is a wealthy woman -owns many properties in several states and her yacht "the Classy Lady". I hope they thought to take her passport: too bad its easy to get around in the world without one if you have your own boat. (Look out Bimini here she comes!) She was in a van with some of the perps, the safe and guns - hid that stuff for the "knuckleheads" in the back yard of one of her houses. (Her husband ratted on her about that).

Good for the Husband.

I'd like to see an interview with him.

[CANDYKISSES]

go to www.wkrg.com it is the CBS affli out of Mobile, they are reporting that Wiggins helped hide the safe


I was looking for a story I saw on WKRG the other day about Gonzales Sr & Jr where Jr told a couple that his him was destroyed by Hurricane Ivan and need to place to rent. The couples goes on to say that Sr posed as the Police Chief of a small Alabama town ( or sherriff) and confirmed that Jr lost his home in Ivan.....of course it was all a lie

when I find it, I'll post the link

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090715/NEWS01/907150329

try this myka.

[MoonHarvest]

Wow what a case this one is, so may layers.

[Myka]

http://www.pnj.com/article/20090715/NEWS01/907150329

try this myka.


thank you Candy

[KatieLady]

Hey, Tam! Good to "see" you. Hope all is well.

A little crime trivia (lol): The guy who told Dick Hickock (In Cold Blood) about the safe at the Clutter farm was named Floyd Wells. He was Hickock"s cellmate in prison and had worked briefly for Herb Clutter.

http://www.enotes.com/cold-blood/q-and-a/does-anyone-know-what-happened-floyd-wells-willie-51393

I just finished re-reading the book. Was as scary as the first time I read it years ago! :w00t:

[KatieLady]

I think it was the first "true crime" best seller. I remember being scared when I read it, too.

Did you see "Capote?"

I did! Looks like you and I were into the crime stuff even as youngsters
:biggrin:

[KatieLady]

Always! LOL!

I made my cousin take me to the Alice Crimmins trial. Sorry for the O/T.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/family/crimmins/1.html

Wow....haven't read about this one. I'm going to go order one of the books on it today! Thanks!

This case is sure an odd one. It is going to be interesting to see what comes out about these jerks in the weeks ahead.

[KatieLady]

The Crimmins case was huge because she dated many shady characters...and because she was accused of killing her children. I was there the day the lady in the window testified. lol! And my friend's dad was the D..A.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/family/crimmins/6.html

Back on topic: I am shocked that Wiggins bonded out for such a low bond. WTF? Must be something we don't know.

I am going to print out the whole thing and read it! :biggrin:

I can't believe it either!! I wonder if the DA has a tail on her? Hoping she will lead them somewhere?

[KatieLady]

Maybe she's supplying information on Leonard Jr. He was a witness at her wedding. :ohmy:

http://www.wkrg.com/crime/article/pamela-long-wiggins-bonds-out-of-jail/188676/Jul-16-2009_1-20-pm/

well....aren't they all just buddy buddy :rolleyes:

[AZCHARGED]

Article on WKRG says ... "Pamela Long Wiggins was released Thursday morning after posting a $10,000 bond." The thing is, I am not sure if she is going through a bail bondsman or not. If so, this would mean that she is posting only 10 percent of the bond and the bondsman is good for the other 90 percent. So, it is possible the bond was set at $100,000.

That is the way it works. I know it is confusing, and it is difficult for me to tell for sure from reading the article what the actual bond was. I am sure we will know sooner rather than later.

Also, a reader stated in the comment section of that same article (so take that for what it is worth), that the safe was found buried at one of PLW's rental houses.

[AZCHARGED]

Maybe she's supplying information on Leonard Jr. He was a witness at her wedding. :ohmy:

http://www.wkrg.com/crime/article/pamela-long-wiggins-bonds-out-of-jail/188676/Jul-16-2009_1-20-pm/

Which wedding? I think there have been AT LEAST three. :confused:

[AZCHARGED]

Which wedding? I think there have been AT LEAST three. :confused:

In further searching, I find I am no longer confused (about that anyway!). The wedding was to Hugh Wiggins. Her official name is:

Pamela Laverne Long Wiggins

unless there is something I have not yet found out about!!

[msgatorslayer]

Article on WKRG says ... "Pamela Long Wiggins was released Thursday morning after posting a $10,000 bond." The thing is, I am not sure if she is going through a bail bondsman or not. If so, this would mean that she is posting only 10 percent of the bond and the bondsman is good for the other 90 percent. So, it is possible the bond was set at $100,000.

That is the way it works. I know it is confusing, and it is difficult for me to tell for sure from reading the article what the actual bond was. I am sure we will know sooner rather than later.

Also, a reader stated in the comment section of that same article (so take that for what it is worth), that the safe was found buried at one of PLW's rental houses.

The 10k is what the bond is. With a bondsman, she'd pay 1k to get out.

She did use ASAP BAIL BONDS. She's charged with a 3rd degree felony. Guess thats why the bond is so low.

I did think it would be much higher, though.

http://www.escambiaclerk.com/xml/xml.asp?ucase_id=2157685

[VC2]

Wow what a case this one is, so may layers.

just heard another one which makes me think again they planned to take the kids in the big van or something like it.

Apparently there was a red minivan ALSO used as a getaway car parked near the billings that was registered to Wiggins, along with the black or gold escalade that was driven to the property.

Mike brooks said the reason it was likely charged "after the fact" is bc they were good friends and seemed like gonzales asked if they could borrow the minivan and she had no prior knowledge. Afterwards of course she allowed the safe and items to be stored. Just thinking though that the reason the bail was so low is she might really not have known it had to do with the billings murder until later-like when a safe was mentioned publicly.

THREE CARS and at least 8 people involved? - given the dismantle the security person???

there is no way at all that this was just a robbery imo.

[VC2]

btw David Mattingly just did a wonderful piece on the couple, it was shown on HLN.

They normally repeat things like that at 6 pm too so fyi

[n/t]

just heard another one which makes me think again they planned to take the kids in the big van or something like it.

Apparently there was a red minivan ALSO used as a getaway car parked near the billings that was registered to Wiggins, along with the black or gold escalade that was driven to the property.

Mike brooks said the reason it was likely charged "after the fact" is bc they were good friends and seemed like gonzales asked if they could borrow the minivan and she had no prior knowledge. Afterwards of course she allowed the safe and items to be stored. Just thinking though that the reason the bail was so low is she might really not have known it had to do with the billings murder until later-like when a safe was mentioned publicly.

THREE CARS and at least 8 people involved? - given the dismantle the security person???

there is no way at all that this was just a robbery imo.

Considering how much time and effort they put into this crime, taking a 15 seater, 25-30 year old van to the crime scene is so outrageous, I don't know what to think.

You would think these idiots would know not to use a very rare and unusual vehicle that would certainly have been tracked down one way or other.

This case is mind boggling.

Besides your theory, VC2 which I think is a good one in lieu of the 15 passenger vehicle, I think another theory would be some sort of hit as stated earlier. They were out to get the Billings. The question is WHY?

[AZCHARGED]

When they say $10,000 bond that is what they mean - its really is only $10,000.

I realize that is what the words mean -- I am just like so totally distrusting of the media. You would have to understand my upbringing, but until I hear the actual facts from a credible source, like a quote from the Judge or the Sheriff, I am never totally convinced.

I do appreciate your explanation, however. And yes, if it is in fact $10,000 I am at a loss to understand that amount.

[msgatorslayer]

When they say $10,000 bond that is what they mean - its really is only $10,000. It is insane, isn't it? From comments a few days ago in pnj.com there were locals who said this judge (a woman they named) will let them all out on the street before sundown. Apparently that was correct only for the woman in this case. She has 6- 8 rental houses in the area - so I assume they thought they were really clever 'cause they didn't bury it at Poff/Gonzales' house. Didn't figure on the husband - LOL. They said husband and not ex-husband contacted LE. I assume he was planning on the "ex" thing anyway....if he isn't one already.

She has a middle school aged daughter and a teenage son.

According to the clerks file on Pamela, she has a male judge.

Since all the others are charged with first degree murder, no judge can let them out. There is no bail.

One of the first article I found about Judge Frank Bell, from Escambia County, is about him being the Judge in the infamous case of Alex and Derek King. The boys who killed their Father.

http://www.sptimes.com/2002/11/04/news_pf/Opinion/Relief_over_Kings__tr.shtml

[Barbara fl.]

Always! LOL!

I made my cousin take me to the Alice Crimmins trial. Sorry for the O/T.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/family/crimmins/1.html



OMG...I too went to that trial but couldn't get in...was outside....talk about memories.....WOW

[msgatorslayer]

Florida double murder victim Byrd Billings served probation for fraudulent adoption

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1019059.ece

[Barbara fl.]

Florida double murder victim Byrd Billings served probation for fraudulent adoption

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1019059.ece



Maybe that is what LE was talking about when they said there may have been other reasons also for these murders.....I think they are going to have to dig real deep on this one....

[AZCHARGED]

Interesting, but wow, this was a l-o-n-g time ago, and probably not as clandestine as it sounds.

[n/t]

I don't see how the 1989 charges have anything to do with this case but maybe more will come out that may connect one or more of the suspects to the Billings in regards to adoption?

Do we know where Bella, alleged missing is? Junior's daughter?

[msgatorslayer]

Interesting, but wow, this was a l-o-n-g time ago, and probably not as clandestine as it sounds.

True. Time will tell.

But he got caught paying a woman to use his then wifes name to give birth to a baby and then put his name on the BC as the father.

What kind of person does that?

He then goes on to marry again, and adopting more children. Does make me wonder if any of those children were illegally obtained.

[3girls]

Latest from Pensacola's WEARTV.COM
ESCAMBIA COUNTY - We're learning more about Pamela Long Wiggins

Since her arrest last night, her estranged husband is speaking out saying she's a smart business women and he wouldn't put any of this past her.

And law enforcement agents say saying she's a smart business women and he wouldn't put any of this past her

Pamela Long Wiggins is a real estate agent who owns several properties in Santa Rosa County.

This morning her estranged husband, James Malden, is speaking out.

Sheriff David Morgan/Escambia County Sheriff's Office: we are taking into custody Ms. Pamela Long Wiggins and she will be charged with accessory after the fact to felony murder

Wiggins, who is 47, is the landlord and family friend of the crew's organizer Leonard Gonzalez Jr. She was found on a yacht in Alabama. Jimmy Malden Jr., is her estranged husband who's been trying to divorce her for years. He says she's swimming in unexplained money.

James Malden Jr./estranged husband of Pamela Wiggins: "She likes to boast a lot about her position in society."

She has nearly a dozen homes in three states, a Rolls Royce, a shopping mall for antiques, the yacht and more. He says she's a strong, smart woman and he wouldn't put any of this past her.

James Malden Jr./estranged husband of Pamela Wiggins: "She knew some people, good fellas, henchman, she once told me about."

Federal Law Enforcement sources say that during interviews with the seven men arrested for the murder of bud and Melanie Billings they learned the crew might be linked to Mexican drug runners and a violent gang known as MS-13.

When they first appeared in the U.S., authorities familiar with the gang told us they are experts at counter-surveillance.

Sgt. George Norris/Prince George's County, MD Police Dept: "They have pictures of a lot of us. They have videotape of a lot of us. While we're doing surveillance on them, they're doing surveillance on us."

Authorities say someone in the crew failed to disable the Billings' surveillance system

Sheriff David Morgan/Escambia County Sheriff's Office) obviously there is an eighth or ninth person that was supposed to have played that part that we've yet to identify.

For now, police will only say the team was after this safe from the Billings' home. It appears they also recovered the second getaway vehicle that was used to access the north side of the home.

Sheriff Morgan says deputies will be looking at two more persons of interest today.

We'll bring you the latest coming up on the news at 4.Pamela Long Wiggins Estranged Husband Speaks Out

[LILMANMAX]

My gut tells me this is not related to any adoptions.
In fact, this robbery motive is starting to not sit well with me either. JMO

Something else going on here. Of course this is my gut feeling and opinion. What was the Billings business ventures? Did I read it was used cars and pawn shops? :confused:

[VC2]

True. Time will tell.

But he got caught paying a woman to use his then wifes name to give birth to a baby and then put his name on the BC as the father.

What kind of person does that?

He then goes on to marry again, and adopting more children. Does make me wonder if any of those children were illegally obtained.

Everything i have heard is those children were essentially the "non adoptables", special needs or children who were troubled from abused backgrounds.

I do not see it in any way sinister, rather that perhaps he did what he thought he did imo to ensure that the child had a good home. Techinically illegal but not criminal in the sense of bad. I notice they did not remove the child from him because of fraudulent adoption.

However, i go back to my belief it has something to do with the children and gonzale's looking for his own daughter. Whether or not one was his, or he used this family to make some sort of statement i don't know.

The one thing i am sure of, all those children were loved and would not have had a decent home without the billings.

IMO

[AZCHARGED]

From FoxNews: Shep Smith reports that Sheriff tells him killing of the couple was "always part of the plan." Brian Wilson (Fox Reporter) feels clearly another motive may be coming out. He reports Bureau of ATF is also there, in addition to DEA. There is "stuff" being reported by some news organizations that Wilson says he is being "waved away from." Shep Smith says you can feel something is about to happen, you can just feel it.
---

A little overly dramatic, but there you go.

[3girls]

I would like to know, where the heck this fits in.
Federal Law Enforcement sources say that during interviews with the seven men arrested for the murder of bud and Melanie Billings they learned the crew might be linked to Mexican drug runners and a violent gang known as MS-13.

[AZCHARGED]

I guess a maybe baby rescuer does that - did that - and it was 20 years ago. And he didn't even have to give up the child.

Exactly what I was thinking. Salt of the earth type person.
But maybe not going about it in exactly the correct way.

[n/t]

Why the secrecy about the other alleged motives? The Sheriff continues to suggest other motives but the DA is keeping it hush. That's the impression I'm getting.

Is it because it's a bigger operation than we are led to believe? Drugs and illegal adoptions from other countries, perhaps?

This is making my head spin. :scared:

[msgatorslayer]

Why the secrecy about the other alleged motives? The Sheriff continues to suggest other motives but the DA is keeping it hush. That's the impression I'm getting.

Is it because it's a bigger operation than we are led to believe? Drugs and illegal adoptions from other countries, perhaps?

This is making my head spin. :scared:

I think theres alot more going on behind the scenes.

[Lovethechild]

Wow...just Wow.....This is really out there.:ohmy:

[msgatorslayer]

I wish NG would stop talking so much about MJ.:cursing:

We'll be lucky if she mentions the Billings murders for the last 10 minutes of her show.

[VC2]

Why the secrecy about the other alleged motives? The Sheriff continues to suggest other motives but the DA is keeping it hush. That's the impression I'm getting.

Is it because it's a bigger operation than we are led to believe? Drugs and illegal adoptions from other countries, perhaps?

This is making my head spin. :scared:

One thing i notice, they always make a point of saying the children are safe, together and in a "secure" location with family.

Another reason i think at least one of the motives may have to do with the kids.

Obviously when any parent dies the kids need to be protected but they are keeping a total lid on where they are and making a point that no one is to try and found out where. normally it is "the children are with the daughter at their home" or something like that

IMO

[msgatorslayer]

This Leonard Patrick guy, I've been reading thru his myspace and see what some of you meant about his Daughter, Bella.

He's trying to do something for Fathers rights. He's mad at the courts. Love his Daughter. Could he have became a radical nut job, and is mad at the Billings for all the kids they have? Does he think they used their money and status to take advantage of the bio parents in some way?

It's hard to get a handle on him.

Awards for the safety program he and his wife teach for children. He has other children. Seems like a swell guy.

I notice that one of his blogs was taken down. He offered a reward for anyone who has 'seen these people'.

His ex-wife has his child. He knows alot about her family and their dealings. Including emails with his ex-mil.

IDK, the whole thing is weird. How'd he get involved with these other people. What is the connection?

And this myspace page of his was only recently created.

Says he wouldn't harm his ex and their family. Loves his Daughter. But raids a house and kills two parents.:mad:

[MiamiNice1]

From FoxNews: Shep Smith reports that Sheriff tells him killing of the couple was "always part of the plan."

Brian Wilson (Fox Reporter) feels clearly another motive may be coming out. He reports Bureau of ATF is also there, in addition to DEA. There is "stuff" being reported by some news organizations that Wilson says he is being "waved away from." Shep Smith says you can feel something is about to happen, you can just feel it.
---

A little overly dramatic, but there you go.

(bolded above by me) - It is driving me nuts wondering what the motive is for killing the Byrds! I cannot imagine Bud and Melanie Byrd, who sacrificed so much to help children that nobody else wanted - could incite anyone to do this to them!

You can't even call these thugs "animals" - it would be insulting real animals, as animals do not kill for no reason.

[jaxback]

I just watched the video of Pamela Wiggins in handcuffs and her smile and swagger were highly reminiscent of Casey Anthony when she was first arrested - the same smirk, the same hip-swinging saunter. I don't get it, where do any of these women get the nerve to "flaunt it?":mad:

[MiamiNice1]

the BILLINGS - Byrds's nickname is Bud - and you are so right. They defy description, don't they? We often read of home invasions where obviously defenseless people are murdered - many times just for a few dollars, Certainly "In Cold Blood" was an example - but I can think of several where there were no books or movies... just innocent dead people for no reason we can understand. Often its by teenagers or mentally ill relatives - but this takes the cake doesn't it? Strangers - and the stupid knuckhead ninja factor - and the drama queen (supposed leader) accusing his dad of bering mentally ill and a liar. I think Poff/Gonzales can certailnly claim his own clear history of lying. He's a career criminal who thinks he is smart. Clearly he is mentally ill and a liar: luckily he is not insane in the legal definition. The man is going down with his cohorts.
Unfortunately that will not bring the loving parents of the children back.
Wow, how did I do that when I know the name is Billings? I even wrote "Byrds" TWICE! :confused:

I am really outraged at this WHOLE thing. You don't find many people like the Billings and these criminals deprived 12 (is that the number?) of the neediest children of probably the only people who will love them like they need to be loved. My heart breaks for them, it just pains me.

The "In Cold Blood" comparison is a good one - good, innocent, hard working people killed for absolutely NOTHING.

I'm so relieved the criminals are locked up - I bet Escambia County is a much safer place now. Who knows what these thugs were doing prior to this?

imo

[Kip]

I just watched the video of Pamela Wiggins in handcuffs and her smile and swagger were highly reminiscent of Casey Anthony when she was first arrested - the same smirk, the same hip-swinging saunter. I don't get it, where do any of these women get the nerve to "flaunt it?":mad:

I don't get it either. If I were guilty as charged, I'd be hanging my head in shame. If I were innocent, I sure as heck wouldn't be smiling. I'd be angry and afraid -- and sad and upset that people I knew had killed two wonderful people. I really can't imagine acting that way in that situation.

[kennedy06]

Had to read the posts and join in here. I just think there is more than meets the eye with this story.

[courtsinsession]

this really is just one of the most bizarre cases ever; so many twists and turns; ones that we don't even know about yet; the killers were in the house for 4 minutes and in that amount of time they executed two people; if this was a simple home invasion, why not tie up the Billings, take the safe and leave the home; they wore masks and couldn't be identified (presumably); at first i thought this was just a home invasion, now I am not sure what it is. that witch Pamela, smirks and smiles inappropriately, as someone pointed out like Casey Anthony and we know that Ms. Anthony is a sociopath. i mean who smiles and smirks as they are being arrested?

[MiamiNice1]

Had to read the posts and join in here. I just think there is more than meets the eye with this story.
I tend to to agree - only because it is too difficult to understand such calculated, heinous acts for such a simple reason as 4 minute robbery.

Guess we'll have to be patient.

[GentleBreeze]

this really is just one of the most bizarre cases ever; so many twists and turns; ones that we don't even know about yet; the killers were in the house for 4 minutes and in that amount of time they executed two people; if this was a simple home invasion, why not tie up the Billings, take the safe and leave the home; they wore masks and couldn't be identified (presumably); at first i thought this was just a home invasion, now I am not sure what it is. that witch Pamela, smirks and smiles inappropriately, as someone pointed out like Casey Anthony and we know that Ms. Anthony is a sociopath. i mean who smiles and smirks as they are being arrested?

Sadly with some home invasions the perps have no intentions of leaving the victims tied up where they could possibly identify them later on. They will kill them without blinking and eye. This case certainly isn't the only case of a home invasion where the victims were murdered.

It seems these commando type killers were all into drama and acting out roles from a movie. I think they just wanted to do it methodically and quickly. The amount of perps would allow for the entire home to be searched with precision very quickly.

I do think the motive here was robbery just like the Sheriff has said. I think it is common for people to want to believe there has to be more to the story but sometimes it is not.

They had car dealerships and it is well known that dealers carry a lot of cash on them and would have a home safe in order to have a place to put it when they came home.

This case has reminded me of another case in Alabama a few years back. A man owned a car dealership and two men came to his home very early in the morning. The man was standing outside with his 10 year old son waiting for the school bus. The two walked up to the boy and shot and killed him right in front of his father....then they shot the father in the head. They went to the backyard and dug a shallow grave and put the father in first and laid the child's body on his chest and covered them up with dirt. Miraculously the father lived although has terrible health issues due to being shot. Both men received the death penalty. They could have robbed this father too and not kill anyone but they did their best to murder them both. One of the men had worked odd jobs at the father's car lot in the past.

So some of these suspects may have done business with the Billings such as doing menial work etc.

imo

[withay]

In one of the links where the daughter is being interveiwed by one of the morning shows, she was stopped from answering when she was asked if any of the arrested suspects had worked for or had any others dealings with her parents. I thought that might be a hint about where this might be going. The interviewer had already said something about one of the suspects doing yardwork and was asking if there was any other connection.

The local news had a pretty long piece on Pamela Wiggins because she was raised near here in Albany, Georgia. They said that she owned a piece of property near a local hospital that used to have a large house on it. The house was unoccupied and burnt down under "very suspicious circumstances" about 10 years ago. The implications of what they were saying was that she seems to be around when "stuff happens".

[courtsinsession]

Sadly with some home invasions the perps have no intentions of leaving the victims tied up where they could possibly identify them later on. They will kill them without blinking and eye. This case certainly isn't the only case of a home invasion where the victims were murdered.

It seems these commando type killers were all into drama and acting out roles from a movie. I think they just wanted to do it methodically and quickly. The amount of perps would allow for the entire home to be searched with precision very quickly.

I do think the motive here was robbery just like the Sheriff has said. I think it is common for people to want to believe there has to be more to the story but sometimes it is not.

They had car dealerships and it is well known that dealers carry a lot of cash on them and would have a home safe in order to have a place to put it when they came home.

This case has reminded me of another case in Alabama a few years back. A man owned a car dealership and two men came to his home very early in the morning. The man was standing outside with his 10 year old son waiting for the school bus. The two walked up to the boy and shot and killed him right in front of his father....then they shot the father in the head. They went to the backyard and dug a shallow grave and put the father in first and laid the child's body on his chest and covered them up with dirt. Miraculously the father lived although has terrible health issues due to being shot. Both men received the death penalty. They could have robbed this father too and not kill anyone but they did their best to murder them both. One of the men had worked odd jobs at the father's car lot in the past.

So some of these suspects may have done business with the Billings such as doing menial work etc.

imo

OMG what a horrible horrible crime: you do make good points about these kind of criminals not wanting anyone left to ID them; I think for normal, non criminal minds, these types of crimes are beyond our understanding;

[aproudmom]

This whole thing has me scratching my head..why them how did they know they had any money if it was just robbery and why so many people..something is not right here..this is the oddest case I have seen in along time..very sad all those kids and their parents are both gone...

[GentleBreeze]

In one of the links where the daughter is being interveiwed by one of the morning shows, she was stopped from answering when she was asked if any of the arrested suspects had worked for or had any others dealings with her parents. I thought that might be a hint about where this might be going. The interviewer had already said something about one of the suspects doing yardwork and was asking if there was any other connection.

The local news had a pretty long piece on Pamela Wiggins because she was raised near here in Albany, Georgia. They said that she owned a piece of property near a local hospital that used to have a large house on it. The house was unoccupied and burnt down under "very suspicious circumstances" about 10 years ago. The implications of what they were saying was that she seems to be around when "stuff happens".

I saw that article, withay. They also said that the arson case remains open so I wonder if they will try to pursue it now.

Although I think there is a statute of limitation on arson, iirc.

imo

[trigger]

In one of the links where the daughter is being interveiwed by one of the morning shows, she was stopped from answering when she was asked if any of the arrested suspects had worked for or had any others dealings with her parents. I thought that might be a hint about where this might be going. The interviewer had already said something about one of the suspects doing yardwork and was asking if there was any other connection.

The local news had a pretty long piece on Pamela Wiggins because she was raised near here in Albany, Georgia. They said that she owned a piece of property near a local hospital that used to have a large house on it. The house was unoccupied and burnt down under "very suspicious circumstances" about 10 years ago. The implications of what they were saying was that she seems to be around when "stuff happens".

Well so shes out on bail. Hope they are tracking her. I hope LE finds more on her, maybe tax invasion etc. Hope it adds up and she goes to jail for a long time. Isnt she married to 2 people at the same time. I know I saw that she was a witness to Gonzales Jr wedding, shes on his marriage cert so she had to know his backgrd. I hope LE takes that smile off her face real soon...I know alot of I hopes....

[aproudmom]

I just watched the video of Pamela Wiggins in handcuffs and her smile and swagger were highly reminiscent of Casey Anthony when she was first arrested - the same smirk, the same hip-swinging saunter. I don't get it, where do any of these women get the nerve to "flaunt it?":mad:

:ohmy:I just saw it on CNN you are right..very strange one there I must say and she is out posted the bond...why did she have so many alias anyone know..sorry if I missed it,..

[aproudmom]

myspace page:

http://tinyurl.com/kkh8jt

omg this is the one they are calling the ring leader on TV? funny how people look so normal and then they can do horrible things...

[GentleBreeze]

This whole thing has me scratching my head..why them how did they know they had any money if it was just robbery and why so many people..something is not right here..this is the oddest case I have seen in along time..very sad all those kids and their parents are both gone...

From what a neighbor said some of the guys role played. One time they were out in the back of the property with weapons, reenacting Red Dawn, iirc.

Imo, they had so many because they had a large house to cover and wanted to do it in record time and get out of there. Just like our Marines who do a full sweep of a home in Iraq or Afghanistan in a minute or two. It also cut down the possibility that anyone in the home would have time to react and be able to call 911 as it was happening.

It really isn't hard to know if someone is known to carry cash. The townsfolk talk about that sometimes, innocently, such as commenting they worry about them sometime because they have all that cash on them and they may have talked with the wrong person about it that knew the perps. Or if any of these goons had done jobs for the Billings at the home or the dealership and they had been paid in cash.

There is a myriad of ways they could have known about the safe. It could have been from an ex employee that may have done work inside of the home or some other person that had seen the safe inside.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

:ohmy:I just saw it on CNN you are right..very strange one there I must say and she is out posted the bond...why did she have so many alias anyone know..sorry if I missed it,..

I am not sure about the aliases but what I have read this woman has been married numerous times.

imo

[aproudmom]

Sounds vigilante to me.. Am I confused. He said on his page that he and his wife have 6 other children at home?? How does that work? Are the other 6 younger than Bella who is 8?? Kind of makes me think maybe he had a fling w/a women that produced a child and this is the one missing??

K I am catching up BTW they will be laid to rest today may god surround all thier loved ones and these people pay..

I do not understand the guys myspace and this Bella but a ex neighbor was on a show last night and said one of them sorry to many to remember the names..him and his family would have some sort of odd training in the back yard and he said it was not like they were just playing..guess maybe he was teaching his kids to be Ninjas..was very strange to me...

THIS GUY I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO THINK
PAtrIck Gonzalez posted new blog entries: THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE HERKEL'S HAVE DONE TO US!!!, Unlawful Visitation Interference, DIVORCE RELATED MALICIOUS MOTHER SYNDROME and Myth: Single-mother-headed households are not detrimental to children. Jun 15


PAtrIck Gonzalez posted new blog entries: Matthew Herkel + murderous mother , All Victims of Child Abuse, Neglect, and Abandonment Throughout the World ...... Battling drug and MY EX-WIFE WILL NOT ALLOW ME TO SEE MY DAUGHTER.

[jewel6]

I beleive this just wasnt a robbery. Its something bigger. jmo :sad:

[aproudmom]

Guess they had no idea they had some money problems??

Court documents show the Billings, who were known for adopting 13 children with special needs, sued their own adult son for child support in 2008 after they took in his daughter - their granddaughter - in 2006, reports CBS News correspondent Terrell Brown.

They also had asked for a $50,000 life insurance policy for the then-18-year-old girl, with themselves as the beneficiaries.

Escambia County Sheriff David Morgan told CBS' "The Early Show" that the police have not investigated the Billings' finances as they've searched for their killers.
http://www.wkrg.com/crime/article/murdered-couple-may-have-had-money-troubles/188594/Jul-16-2009_12-47-pm/

[aproudmom]

I beleive this just wasnt a robbery. Its something bigger. jmo :sad:

I am thinking the same thing..I wonder just were the safe was they were only there 4 minutes right?

just found this..very sweet pictures
http://www.northescambia.com/?p=9487
Melanie and Byrd Billings opened their home and their lives to developmentally disabled children, having adopted eight children in addition to their four.

[msgatorslayer]

K I am catching up BTW they will be laid to rest today may god surround all thier loved ones and these people pay..

I do not understand the guys myspace and this Bella but a ex neighbor was on a show last night and said one of them sorry to many to remember the names..him and his family would have some sort of odd training in the back yard and he said it was not like they were just playing..guess maybe he was teaching his kids to be Ninjas..was very strange to me...

THIS GUY I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO THINK
PAtrIck Gonzalez posted new blog entries: THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE HERKEL'S HAVE DONE TO US!!!, Unlawful Visitation Interference, DIVORCE RELATED MALICIOUS MOTHER SYNDROME and Myth: Single-mother-headed households are not detrimental to children. Jun 15


PAtrIck Gonzalez posted new blog entries: Matthew Herkel + murderous mother , All Victims of Child Abuse, Neglect, and Abandonment Throughout the World ...... Battling drug and MY EX-WIFE WILL NOT ALLOW ME TO SEE MY DAUGHTER.

His myspace is very odd. A ticking time bomb, perhaps? Radical views on child custody?

[firefly75]

omg this is the one they are calling the ring leader on TV? funny how people look so normal and then they can do horrible things...

Here is other one...I found it because he comments on his own blogs.



http://www.myspace.com/481657348


He is one true monster....he plays the victim! He also states he went to Costa Rica for a few months and this is when he lost Bella. I wonder if this might be the reason the DEA might be involved. Just a thought...

[aproudmom]

not sure if you all knew but he has 2 myspace pages

http://www.myspace.com/maryisabellagonzalez

[aproudmom]

Here is other one...I found it because he comments on his own blogs.



http://www.myspace.com/481657348


He is one true monster....he plays the victim! He also states he went to Costa Rica for a few months and this is when he lost Bella. I wonder if this might be the reason the DEA might be involved. Just a thought...

omg how many does he have:ohmy: I just found one also is this all the same sicko

http://www.myspace.com/maryisabellagonzalez
http://www.myspace.com/billherkel

[firefly75]

omg how many does he have:ohmy: I just found one also is this all the same sicko

http://www.myspace.com/maryisabellagonzalez
http://www.myspace.com/billherkel


OK...ok...I think we can diagnosis him with OCD....and murderer..sicko

[aproudmom]

myspace accounts

Patrick Gonzalez
35 / Male
Gulf Breeze, Florida, US
Last Login: 6/14/2009
http://www.myspace.com/maryisabellagonzalez



PAtrIck Gonzalez
35 / Male
US
Last Login: 7/11/2009
http://www.myspace.com/billherkel


Patrick Gonzalez
35 / Male
US
Last Login: 6/28/2009
http://www.myspace.com/481657348

[aproudmom]

His myspace is very odd. A ticking time bomb, perhaps? Radical views on child custody?

omg he is scary all these names he is putting on there yikes shocked he did not go after them

do you think it just had something also to do with them adopting children or did they foster children..this guy is very scary..I mean I feel bad if he did not see his child but sounds like there may have been a reason..he has a wife and many other kids..I am just in awe this is so crazy...he is a very angry person

this is just a small part on one of his many myspace pages

According to Florida law, "It is the custodial parent's responsibility to encourage and foster an ongoing relationship with the non-custodial parent. If the custodial parent is incapable of performing that responsibility the non-custodial parent might have to resort to the court for help,

[aproudmom]

OK...ok...I think we can diagnosis him with OCD....and murderer..sicko

I think so to I am surprised Myspace even allowed those to stay open usually they are very good and I even saw the aunt was being harassed and she was turning him in..and that was Jun 11 2009 10:31 PM after he talked to his ex and this is the one they think was pretty much the ring leader if you want to call it that..and he has the picture of the little girl on one of them..or he says it is her..

[CANDYKISSES]

omg how many does he have:ohmy: I just found one also is this all the same sicko

http://www.myspace.com/maryisabellagonzalez
http://www.myspace.com/billherkel

He is one dangerous freak IMOO.

That pic of him in the suit says it all right there....very sick individual IMO and by no means am I offering him up as misguided, rather VERY EVIL and sounding like a TOTAL CONTROL FREAK.

Can you imagine what his WIFE he is TEACHING is enduring???

Six boys and he wants his Bella....:unsure:. I know the child custody can drive a sane person nuts, but I think he might have been born at the nut factory and carried on from there. :cursing: JMO

[KatieLady]

omg he is scary all these names he is putting on there yikes shocked he did not go after them

do you think it just had something also to do with them adopting children or did they foster children..this guy is very scary..I mean I feel bad if he did not see his child but sounds like there may have been a reason..he has a wife and many other kids..I am just in awe this is so crazy...he is a very angry person

this is just a small part on one of his many myspace pages

According to Florida law, "It is the custodial parent's responsibility to encourage and foster an ongoing relationship with the non-custodial parent. If the custodial parent is incapable of performing that responsibility the non-custodial parent might have to resort to the court for help,

His mood on July 8......"Making a move for humanity" :ohmy:

[CANDYKISSES]

His mood on July 8......"Making a move for humanity" :ohmy:

Unbelievable isn't it? :blink:

[tv4me]

Originally Posted by KatieLady
His mood on July 8......"Making a move for humanity"
Maybe he knew the adult son who was sued and had his own daughter adopted by his parents? Thought the parents deserved to die because they took their son's daughter, just like his wife took his?

Could it be the adult son who was supposed to turn off the alarm?

This case seems far too personal to just be a robbery. Especially since it has bee revealed that the couple were the intended targets all along.

[firefly75]

It is amazing how many crazy freaks are out walking around aLL of us!! This man seems to have several people (family, friends) backing him. He seems like the type that plays the victim and never taling responsibilty for his role in anything!!

I also wonder how the wife (of Patrick) did not know he was planning the break in? I by no means am saying she had a part in it but just makes me wonder....

[CANDYKISSES]

Maybe he knew the adult son who was sued and had his own daughter adopted by his parents? Thought the parents deserved to die because they took their son's daughter, just like his wife took his?

Could it be the adult son who was supposed to turn off the alarm?

This case seems far too personal to just be a robbery. Especially since it has bee revealed that the couple were the intended targets all along.

I have been thinking along those lines too. I wonder if he has yet another ID on MySpace or perhaps FACEBOOK. :unsure:

[VC2]

OMG what a horrible horrible crime: you do make good points about these kind of criminals not wanting anyone left to ID them; I think for normal, non criminal minds, these types of crimes are beyond our understanding;

that case was "normal" though in it was a pair of crooks.

If these 7 guys wanted to ensure no witnesses it meant killing all the children except perhaps infants. Some were obviously special needs but not all. 3 of the children were able to give some description.

i still don't get the motive. There has to be something underlying this other than a cash/jewelry robbery. To many ppl, trained for a month, yet they had to bring this huge old 15 seater van which would be seen on the road if no where else.

[KatieLady]

Unbelievable isn't it? :blink:

His arrogance is just stunning IMO

[aproudmom]

His mood on July 8......"Making a move for humanity" :ohmy:

OK Yeah I think this is more than we know.but why does he keep bringing up the son named MATTHEW HERKEL

well never mind found it he was in his 30's nothing to do with the Billings..

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=468734116&blogId=494778203

http://wiegand.createatribute.com/registryMain.php?PHPSESSID=d97e6848878495e9dc107a1 9d814c70a&i_memorialid=1203019312

[Debb]

I wonder what kind of work he did in Costa Rica? Very interesting.

[BevAnn]

Dude is seriously a nut job!! I am amazed at his audacity to put pics of her family out there like that!! And blatantly say - got info on these people? LORD! Her family should have been very frightened!

I'd LOVE to hear the ex's side of things - I bet she's got some great insights!

[VC2]

He is one dangerous freak IMOO.

That pic of him in the suit says it all right there....very sick individual IMO and by no means am I offering him up as misguided, rather VERY EVIL and sounding like a TOTAL CONTROL FREAK.

Can you imagine what his WIFE he is TEACHING is enduring???

Six boys and he wants his Bella....:unsure:. I know the child custody can drive a sane person nuts, but I think he might have been born at the nut factory and carried on from there. :cursing: JMO

i shouldn't laugh but totally agree with your last description of him.

Sadly i really think this had to do with adoption far more than money. He is just to obsessed with bella, child custody etce etc for me to believe he put all this effort into a robbery while he was obsessing over his daughter unless somehow they were linked in his mind.

JMO

[KatieLady]

Dude is seriously a nut job!! I am amazed at his audacity to put pics of her family out there like that!! And blatantly say - got info on these people? LORD! Her family should have been very frightened!

I'd LOVE to hear the ex's side of things - I bet she's got some great insights!

I bet we will hear from her at some point!

[BevAnn]

I fully agree VC - I think he used his hatred of his ex and her happy family and took it out on this poor family. That's all it was about -for HIM. He probably used the money, etc. to coax the others into helping him, but I'd bet he was the shooter.

[aproudmom]

I fully agree VC - I think he used his hatred of his ex and her happy family and took it out on this poor family. That's all it was about -for HIM. He probably used the money, etc. to coax the others into helping him, but I'd bet he was the shooter.

ITA I am sure she was so scared and her family I am freaking out and I don't even know the sicko actually I keep reading he more than likely was not in it for the money the others may have been..he is full of hate and what is up with this award he has on his blog..wonder if he made it himself...

Project FIGHT BACK ???
June 25, 2009- Tabatha & Patrick Gonzalez recieved the SERVICE TO MANKIND AWARD from the Pensacola Sertoma Club.
The SERVICE TO MANKIND AWARD

[GentleBreeze]

Maybe he knew the adult son who was sued and had his own daughter adopted by his parents? Thought the parents deserved to die because they took their son's daughter, just like his wife took his?

Could it be the adult son who was supposed to turn off the alarm?

This case seems far too personal to just be a robbery. Especially since it has bee revealed that the couple were the intended targets all along.

The crime to me seems very impersonal, cold, calculating and no attachment at all. Just carry it out as it had been planned commando style and walk out.

Most of these adopted children were children with disabilities and the bio parent did not feel they could raise them, aren't they?

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I fully agree VC - I think he used his hatred of his ex and her happy family and took it out on this poor family. That's all it was about -for HIM. He probably used the money, etc. to coax the others into helping him, but I'd bet he was the shooter.

I agree. Now his inner hatred may have fueled him on but I think robbery was the motive. So he picked these kind of people that adopted children, which he may have detested all adoptive parents.

These were the perfect target......they had money.

imo

[Kip]

Here's an article about Gonzalez Jr's ex-wife's family:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090715/ARTICLE/907151028/2055/NEWS?Title=A-suspect-in-slaying-of-parents-haunted-Sarasota-family-

Gonzalez married Katie Herkel while she was away at college in Pensacola, but it was a rocky marriage that ended in 2002, according to court records. Herkel's mother says Gonzalez was supposed to have supervised visits with their daughter, Bella, but he failed to pay child support and did not take required parenting classes.

After his ex-wife won sole custody and moved back to Sarasota, Gonzalez would call the Herkels every few months and lash out at his former in-laws.

Most of the article is about the MySpace stalking of the family.

[CANDYKISSES]

ITA I am sure she was so scared and her family I am freaking out and I don't even know the sicko actually I keep reading he more than likely was not in it for the money the others may have been..he is full of hate and what is up with this award he has on his blog..wonder if he made it himself...

Project FIGHT BACK ???
June 25, 2009- Tabatha & Patrick Gonzalez recieved the SERVICE TO MANKIND AWARD from the Pensacola Sertoma Club.
The SERVICE TO MANKIND AWARD

Maybe it was part of his teaching program for his wife. :unsure: I can't put my finger on it, but just the picture is unsettling and top that with the obsessive blurbs about that innocent child and I see RED.

What is the age of the oldest son that was taken to court by Melanie and Byrd? TIA to anyone who might know.

[KatieLady]

ITA I am sure she was so scared and her family I am freaking out and I don't even know the sicko actually I keep reading he more than likely was not in it for the money the others may have been..he is full of hate and what is up with this award he has on his blog..wonder if he made it himself...

Project FIGHT BACK ???
June 25, 2009- Tabatha & Patrick Gonzalez recieved the SERVICE TO MANKIND AWARD from the Pensacola Sertoma Club.
The SERVICE TO MANKIND AWARD

Here is what the award is all about

http://www.sertoma.org/Page.aspx?pid=190

ETA....I wonder if Bella had a hearing problem? Or one of his other kids?

[KatieLady]

But not until this nut is locked away for good!

I agree! I bet the ex wife is/was terrified of him! IMO

[aproudmom]

ok so they had children coming into the marriage I am guessing...
Mr. Billings had a adopted child with his first wife? boy they really gave alot of children a wonderful home..very sad

[Kip]

There is a Tampa Bay connection to the murders of Byrd and Melanie Billings in Pensacola.

Michael Billings, the 44-year-old son of Byrd Billings from a previous marriage, lives in Indian Shores.

He said he went to Pensacola after the murders but returned to his home after just a few hours. He said he won't be going to the couple's funeral.

"I didn't feel safe there," he said.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1018810.ece

I wonder why he doesn't feel safe there. This is the son whom the parents got custody of his children. I wonder what the reason was behind that - it seems like it would have had to had been a solid reason for any court to go along withit.

aproudmom - like you I also wondered if he was the one who was supposed to turn off the security system. But, being estranged, would he have known how? Maybe he was supposed to -- and thought he knew how, but the system or passwords had changed? If Michael thought he had been wronged and met up with Gonzalez, Jr., it's not too hard to imagine things rolling from there.

[aproudmom]

Here is what the award is all about

http://www.sertoma.org/Page.aspx?pid=190

ETA....I wonder if Bella had a hearing problem? Or one of his other kids?

thanks a bunch Katie appreciate it..I am trying hard to get caught up my gosh this is so hard to get everything so confusing..and still to think all these people went into that home for a safe and to kill them..I just can not believe this amount of people never backed out and talked..to bad and these kids would not be burying their parents today...:sad:

[BevAnn]

Did ya'll see his Christmas family picture? His current wife is beautiful! And those kids are adorable. I'd say the baby is the only that's his. I am so glad her and those babies are not in his presence! I wonder how SHE feels now?

She might even come out of the woodwork and tell us she'd been scared of him too.

He just looks like a thug. You can tell by his rantings he's crazed -and he stupid if he thinks people can not see him for what he really is. He thinks he's being all sincere in his pleas, but it was more than obvious he was obsessed.

[KatieLady]

thanks a bunch Katie appreciate it..I am trying hard to get caught up my gosh this is so hard to get everything so confusing..and still to think all these people went into that home for a safe and to kill them..I just can not believe this amount of people never backed out and talked..to bad and these kids would not be burying their parents today...:sad:

You are welcome!

This whole thing is just incredibly sad and senseless :sad:

[kennedy06]

I'm so confused, I clicked a couple of those myspaces, I don't understand all of this how old is this girl now? Who are the well dressed professional looking people who posted to him on one of the space today? I guess I could have looked but I wanted off of there!


I think these are 2 separate issues his problems and this robbery/murder. I mean why would the other grown men get mixed up in this over any speculative ideas about another man's child even if some money was involved, once divided among all of them and things, I mean this robbery/murder was planned out so well over what, I"m so confused!

Can hardly wait for Geraldo to help me to understand! Thanks guys for your links:smile:

[VC2]

There is a Tampa Bay connection to the murders of Byrd and Melanie Billings in Pensacola.

Michael Billings, the 44-year-old son of Byrd Billings from a previous marriage, lives in Indian Shores.

He said he went to Pensacola after the murders but returned to his home after just a few hours. He said he won't be going to the couple's funeral.

"I didn't feel safe there," he said.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1018810.ece

I wonder why he doesn't feel safe there. This is the son whom the parents got custody of his children. I wonder what the reason was behind that - it seems like it would have had to had been a solid reason for any court to go along withit.

aproudmom - like you I also wondered if he was the one who was supposed to turn off the security system. But, being estranged, would he have known how? Maybe he was supposed to -- and thought he knew how, but the system or passwords had changed? If Michael thought he had been wronged and met up with Gonzalez, Jr., it's not too hard to imagine things rolling from there.

Something is really odd here...i don't mean in any sinister way, just strange that a couple who have so much love and managed to raise their children both bio and adopted with what from all accounts is success have such an issue with this one son.

The daughter )not sure if bio of byrd or his wife) clearly considered both of them her parents, and i haven't heard one negative word about them as parents from the teachers, the community or anyone. Wonder what caused the rift between son and parents and why they had to take their grandchild.

eta not saying it is anything bad on the billings side, many great parents do have a child with issues.

jmo

[Lavinia]

His mood on July 8......"Making a move for humanity" :ohmy:

This is what I was coming to post! :scared: Wow, so *not* like a simple robbery, IMO. (If the statement is any way involved, and I believe it is.)

[VC2]

his comment of "not feeling safe there" i think perhaps he either has some mental health issues or whatever caused the rift was one where the rift was between all the adult children and himself too.
Melanies brother speaking right now on msnbc at pc

[BevAnn]

I would def like to know more about this estranged son. I wonder if he is involved in some way?? Is that why he won't attend the funeral - guilt? Afraid to face other family?

IF IF he was the one that was suposed to turn off the cameras, did he not do it on purpose - feeling guilty and bailed out the last minute and kept cameras on so the others would get caught??

:confused:

[Lavinia]

i shouldn't laugh but totally agree with your last description of him.

Sadly i really think this had to do with adoption far more than money. He is just to obsessed with bella, child custody etce etc for me to believe he put all this effort into a robbery while he was obsessing over his daughter unless somehow they were linked in his mind.

JMO

Unless he thought this robbery might fund his fight against the in-laws and get "Bella"?

[VC2]

This is what I was coming to post! :scared: Wow, so *not* like a simple robbery, IMO. (If the statement is any way involved, and I believe it is.)

what i have been saying for days. The chief knucklehead targeted them for some "cause" reason that had to do iwth his obsession over bella, or child custody laws or something like it. I really doubt Michael was involved, doesn't sound like he was a part of their lives so would not know the codes of the suveillance system.

The security system was not armed though :( which makes some sense, with that amount of kids no one would arm it while awake or until all children were asleep. I know some report said all kids were in bed but not so sure, at least three saw the group that we know of.

I am trying to think of who would know how to disable the surveillance footage but not the alarm system, because it makes far more sense that they carry this out in dark instead of bright daylight especially given the unique look of the van on the road. IMO the time was chosen because the alarm was going to be off at that hour. A safe assumption as i said

[Lavinia]

what i have been saying for days. The chief knucklehead targeted them for some "cause" reason that had to do iwth his obsession over bella, or child custody laws or something like it. I really doubt Michael was involved, doesn't sound like he was a part of their lives so would not know the codes of the suveillance system.

The security system was not armed though :( which makes some sense, with that amount of kids no one would arm it while awake or until all children were asleep. I know some report said all kids were in bed but not so sure, at least three saw the group that we know of.

I am trying to think of who would know how to disable the surveillance footage but not the alarm system, because it makes far more sense that they carry this out in dark instead of bright daylight especially given the unique look of the van on the road. IMO the time was chosen because the alarm was going to be off at that hour. A safe assumption as i said

Something is there for them hitting that time of day, IMO. I would think they would do it under the cover of darkness if they were so afraid of being seen. I've seen where it says they (Billings) had a 7 p.m. bedtime (I wonder how many people knew that?) which is pretty unusual, especially if the kids were out of school. Why not wait until it's dark and people are much more likely to be sleeping if you want the element of surprise?

I don't know. My Mom thought about one of the older children on the first day, before we knew a thing about this case so I'm interested in that angle also.

[Pat]

His myspace is very odd. A ticking time bomb, perhaps? Radical views on child custody?

BBM

I think you are correct...and, unfortunately, he 'exploded' all over the Billings. I also believe if it hadn't been them, eventually it would have been someone else.

I don't think money was the object for him. IMO, it was the thrill of the exercises, leadership of this crazy group and the feeling of power and control.

This is one crazy, stupid individual. I love the fact Florida has the death penalty. He deserves it...and the all the time it will take for the appeals so he can contemplate his death.

I'm with the poster who thinks Gonzales pulled the trigger.

[aproudmom]

I'm so confused, I clicked a couple of those myspaces, I don't understand all of this how old is this girl now? Who are the well dressed professional looking people who posted to him on one of the space today? I guess I could have looked but I wanted off of there!


I think these are 2 separate issues his problems and this robbery/murder. I mean why would the other grown men get mixed up in this over any speculative ideas about another man's child even if some money was involved, once divided among all of them and things, I mean this robbery/murder was planned out so well over what, I"m so confused!

Can hardly wait for Geraldo to help me to understand! Thanks guys for your links:smile:

I looked at a few and to me JMO he made them up one was some elected official.. and one was a lawyer..but not real sure..I will try to google it and see who they are..I saw 2 of the others that are in jail and he is not even on their myspaces

[aproudmom]

:ohmy:ok this video is very freaky it is the girl with her face covered..so strange do not know half of what she is saying it is Spanish I think and then in English but she is referring to the murders...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG1CFknmtrU

[VC2]

Unless he thought this robbery might fund his fight against the in-laws and get "Bella"?

I don't think he was that smart lol. From his april comments it seems bella was given up to foster care or adoption. Not everyone is able to care for a special needs child. That he was actually looking for where Bella was.

the number of vehicles - 1 huge 15 seater van..essentially small bus - a caddilac escalade which has loads of room too and 1 minivan makes me think there is something so bizarre to this. The safe was not that large, maybe heavy but not big so wouldn't take up lots of room. Jewelry and stuff is small. A couple of tv's would easily fit even in the escalade. I don't think they had any intention of ransacking the house though. Practicing for a month with military precision says they wanted to be in and out as quickly as possible. From the latest comments the sheriff gave, seems they did plan to kill the parents.

If this is true it puts another light on it as well. There were 9 children in the house, some without special needs mentally. Unless they planned to kill the kids which they did not imo, cameras on or off the crew was not going to stay in that house for long.

They got in and out in 4 minutes, in that time found and killed the parents and got the safe. There are two possibilities.

1. they wanted the safe and somehow knew it had lots of money or jewelry. imo its possible they knew/believed the adoption papers or birth certificates for the kids were there, perhaps a clue as to who had bella?

2. They planned to take the kids or some of the kids. Most of the really valuable stuff is not large in a home, it doesn't take 3 freaking cars and 7 ppl and a 15 seat van. I don't see them moving a bunch of furniture size stuff or lots of computers bc the van had the seats bolted in. Perhaps to ransom in the sense of 'give us/him his child that was wrongly taken from him and we will return the children" or they may have thought one of the girls were bella and taken them to figure out later which one was.

whatever scenario, this was overkill and to have a 3rd getaway car near the house that no one arrived in empty, screams needing lots and lots of seats and room

IMO

course i could be wrong and it really was just a group that wanted to steal money and decided a house with multi layers of video, security and surveillance which was full of 11 people including the kids was the easiest and safest place to rob. they cant e that stupid though. Any other house all they had to worry about was cutting the security alarm wires and with the number of ppl involved someone knew how to do that. Summer time to, many homes are empty bc people are at the cottage.

JMO

[Lavinia]

One of his ex in-laws (Jen Herkel) posted on another site discussing this case. Poff/ Gonzales would call her periodically to holler at her. She said the knucklehad (that was NOt the term she used) has been harrassing them on Myspace since last spring, but going to LE was no help. A detective (initials TT) refused to make a report - and told them to just to "turn off the computer". Bella is living happily with her mother and has no idea about all this. Poff/Gonzales lost custody due to refusal to take the parenting classes the judge ordered, and of course, refusal to pay child support. He was supposed to have supervised visitation but he didn't agree with that.

I wonder what's behind the parenting classes and supervised visitation. That spells a problem right there.

[firefly75]

:ohmy:ok this video is very freaky it is the girl with her face covered..so strange do not know half of what she is saying it is Spanish I think and then in English but she is referring to the murders...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG1CFknmtrU

The link says it has been removed???? What girl was talking? Thank you for sharing the link:)

[VC2]

BBM

I think you are correct...and, unfortunately, he 'exploded' all over the Billings. I also believe if it hadn't been them, eventually it would have been someone else.

I don't think money was the object for him. IMO, it was the thrill of the exercises, leadership of this crazy group and the feeling of power and control.

This is one crazy, stupid individual. I love the fact Florida has the death penalty. He deserves it...and the all the time it will take for the appeals so he can contemplate his death.

I'm with the poster who thinks Gonzales pulled the trigger.

I am against the death penalty but i sure won't cry if gonzales gets it. I am just so outraged that someone would kill this particular couple.

Not often that people have the will and the resources and the heart to adopt so many unadoptable children. These kids seemed to get the best education they could, treatment and most importantly love. Many would have been in an institution or state run care until they were 18. The ones who were not developmentally challenged came from backgrounds of abuse.

it is sick sick sick. I can understand john couey better. He panicked, did something so horrible that i thought he was the worst but killing these childrens parents was imo torturing and emotionally killing them too.

These creeps had no idea if they would be able to stay together as a family after killing their parents..i think it would have destroyed some of them, thank goodness the billings not only made arrangements in their will but from what the daughter said she is going to keep them all together as a family. That though is pure LUCK that one of their kids is able to do so. No much how someone might like to not everyone is capable of taking on a task like this.

IMO

[aproudmom]

BBM

I think you are correct...and, unfortunately, he 'exploded' all over the Billings. I also believe if it hadn't been them, eventually it would have been someone else.

I don't think money was the object for him. IMO, it was the thrill of the exercises, leadership of this crazy group and the feeling of power and control.

This is one crazy, stupid individual. I love the fact Florida has the death penalty. He deserves it...and the all the time it will take for the appeals so he can contemplate his death.

I'm with the poster who thinks Gonzales pulled the trigger.

I agree he was a ticking time bomb and you know what they will be turning and talking real soon with that many people involved someone will be looking for a deal to spill the beans...

[Pat]

Another worthless individual who goes on to have other children, whines about not being able to see one he won't support...and then kills two people who have taken in special needs children who require a huge financial and emotional investment.

If he was so "upset" over the circumstance with Bella, why didn't he get up off his lazy butt and drive over to Sarasota and start the process to share custody? {Waves hand to answer} He wanted it all his way, but wasn't willing to put the time, energy and money into doing it the legal way...just hand his kid over simply because 'he' says so!

Can't wait to hear what his lawyer will say in defense of this worthless waste of space.

This case infuriates me.

[Lavinia]

:ohmy:ok this video is very freaky it is the girl with her face covered..so strange do not know half of what she is saying it is Spanish I think and then in English but she is referring to the murders...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG1CFknmtrU

Watch it here as it's taken off of YouTube now. HURRY! This is bizarre!

http://watch-hd.com/watch.php?id=83661

[Lavinia]

The link says it has been removed???? What girl was talking? Thank you for sharing the link:)

Watch this! It's a wife (of one of the guys?) saying that the Billing were killed for human trafficking using social services to do so.

http://watch-hd.com/watch.php?id=83661

[KatieLady]

That wraps it up for me...these people are all wacko! :rolleyes:

[aproudmom]

The link says it has been removed???? What girl was talking? Thank you for sharing the link:)

ok well websleuths are turning it in I could not understand it but said it was someones wife..let me see if it will work..I would not give a crap but it is very odd and them guys over there are pulling all kinds of stuff up...dont know who it is or why it is on there but alot of people talking and turning it in..and so am I..very sick IMO...they need to pull it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcJTp7RQZY

[KatieLady]

Anybody know what she is saying in the second Spanish part?

[Pat]

Thanks for the explanation of the video, Lavinia. You're smarter than me...I didn't understand the point of anything she said. :laugh:

So if I have this right...there is a fortune to be made in adopting special needs children, it is trafficking in humans, and this group broke in, killed the Billings and stole their safe...all to bring to light this heinous practice so we American will become aware of this mafia like practice?

And here I thought she was just using these poor people to get attention. :scared:

[firefly75]

Watch it here as it's taken off of YouTube now. HURRY! This is bizarre!

http://watch-hd.com/watch.php?id=83661

WHOA!!!! I am so scared!!! thank you for the link!! Are they trying to say they (Billings) were profiting off having the children in their home? All these children were adopted weren't they? Would they still receive financial help through the gov?

[KatieLady]

Thanks for the explanation of the video, Lavinia. You're smarter than me...I didn't understand the point of anything she said. :laugh:

So if I have this right...there is a fortune to be made in adopting special needs children, it is trafficking in humans, and this group broke in, killed the Billings and stole their safe...all to bring to light this heinous practice so we American will become aware of this mafia like practice?

And here I thought she was just using these poor people to get attention. :scared:

Seems so Pat :rolleyes:

[VC2]

With that many kids there is bound to be a problem with one. I wonder if the support suit for the child was an attempt at tough love? They had temporary custody, maybe it was only supposed to be for a short time while Michael got himself together. But 2 years later
(2008) they still had the child and she was turning 18... perhaps needing some money for college or something?
What was Michael doing all that time, I wonder?

News report on HLN said there wasn't anything much in the safe - children's records mostly; prescription meds, family documents, some jewelry - only of sentimental value.

yes i suspect tough love and perhaps a way to get him to show his daughter that he cares at least a little. I don't think they needed the money.

bolding mine...and i think the crew knew what was probably in the safe and that is why they took it. If they wanted to be assured of money there were lots of pawnable items including jewelry that i am sure the mom had in a jewelry case.

IMO

[KatieLady]

WHOA!!!! I am so scared!!! thank you for the link!! Are they trying to say they (Billings) were profiting off having the children in their home? All these children were adopted weren't they? Would they still receive financial help through the gov?

If they applied for it, yes they would because of the disabilities IMO

[firefly75]

That wraps it up for me...these people are all wacko! :rolleyes:

Me too!!! This is so weird!!! I wonder who her husband is?

[KatieLady]

She said she's the wife of a sex offender named Cruz.

imo

I googled his name and didn't find anything

[KatieLady]

She stated his name is how we know. I have no idea if she is related to any of this but it is strange IMO

[Lavinia]

WHOA!!!! I am so scared!!! thank you for the link!! Are they trying to say they (Billings) were profiting off having the children in their home? All these children were adopted weren't they? Would they still receive financial help through the gov?

Yes, FF. If they are special needs kids they would receive assistance.

I tell you what else got my attention last night. Some show told about the mortgages the Billings took out on their house since 2003, I believe, and they mortgages were for over $500,000, with the worth of the house over $700,000. I don't know about you, but to me, a "very wealthy couple" don't have recent mortgages of that amount on that amount of principle. :confused:

[jaxback]

She said she's the wife of a sex offender named Cruz.

imo

And who in their right mind wouldn't believe a woman hidden behind a jihadist headwrap so that we don't even know if she is doing any talking, announcing:

1. she is married to a convicted sex offender (and perhaps human trafficker himself - I'd have to go back and listen again which I don't think I'll do)

2. claiming these two murder victims were in on some huge moneymaking international scam involving big bucks and children with special needs

3. recorded on a tape that sounds like there are at least two different voices on it

What rock do these people crawl out from under? jmo

[firefly75]

If they applied for it, yes they would because of the disabilities IMO

Thank you for your response!!! I do believ e the Billings were not making a fortune of these children...I am sure it cost more money than the Billings were getting from the goverment!! I also want to add that I think the Billings were very good hearted people and did not do what this crazy person said they did!!

[KatieLady]

And who in their right mind wouldn't believe a woman hidden behind a jihadist headwrap so that we don't even know if she is doing any talking, announcing:

1. she is married to a convicted sex offender (and perhaps human trafficker himself - I'd have to go back and listen again which I don't think I'll do)

2. claiming these two murder victims were in on some huge moneymaking international scam involving big bucks and children with special needs

3. recorded on a tape that sounds like there are at least two different voices on it

What rock do these people crawl out from under? jmo

I don't see where anyone believes her here but it is strange and she directly addressed the Billings murders. So IMO it is up for discussion

[Lavinia]

Yikes! Here he is! I found him.

http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/flyer.do?personId=41865

Absconded and for child molestation.

[VC2]

WHOA!!!! I am so scared!!! thank you for the link!! Are they trying to say they (Billings) were profiting off having the children in their home? All these children were adopted weren't they? Would they still receive financial help through the gov?

no they wouldn't but sounds like these wackos actually believe that adoption through social services is human trafficking and taking kids from rightful parents :scared:

I KNEW that it was something like this. "a move for humanity" and his obsession over bella...

it also explains why he could get such a large group to go for it. They weren't "robbing" them, they were saving kids from human trafficking :cursing: Any of the participants who have low IQ's would think this was true given how obsessed gonzales was and he probably came up with lots of "proof", even the 89 fraudulent adoption thing. the 16 year old, he is not old enough to have known better - to know that killing is wrong yes but not that gonzales was a paranoid freak of a nutcase. It would seem romantic to a kid especially when all the adults are telling him about the evil traffickers i children who were stolen from their parents with government help. Just thinking of how a teens mind would work with that. They often get obsessive over righteous causes in their minds, generally for the good and imo they influenced him to believe it was for the good! Wouldn't you want to help stop kids being stolen and sold with the help of the government? course you wouldn't believe it but teens believe lots of stupid things told to them.

oh i am so disgusted and angry.

eta and no wonder they are keeping a lid on the childrens whereabouts and why michael said "he didn't feel safe", i am sure until every POI and ancillary person has been arrested none of them feel to safe because what if he/she decides to make a point by going after the adult kids who are looking after the kids or in michaels case he gave custody to the gp's.

omg

[MiamiNice1]

Yikes! Here he is! I found him.

http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/flyer.do?personId=41865
Whoa. Absconded. Good find!

(he's all of 5'2" ??)

[jaxback]

No wonder LE is having such a weird time with this!

In Spanish, at the end, she says there is a special place in h3ll for the traffickers of children and something about this being presented before the President and the Governor of Florida.

imo

Right, that special place in h**l is undoubtedly right next to the one where the sex offenders reside, and not too far down the hall from where people like the woman on the tape are housed. jmo:angry:

[MiamiNice1]

Right, that special place in h**l is undoubtedly right next to the one where the sex offenders reside, and not too far down the hall from where people like the woman on the tape are housed. jmo:angry:
Like I said before....I am so RELIEVED these thugs are in jail. Escambia County has to be a safer place, now.

[Lavinia]

OMG. Is this for real?

http://www.sandiegochildtrafficking.com/

Whoa! The internet is the Wild, Wild, West, huh? :scared:

[firefly75]

OMG. Is this for real?

http://www.sandiegochildtrafficking.com/

This is just getting so weird!! Thanks for the link!!

[VC2]

I don't see where anyone believes her here but it is strange and she directly addressed the Billings murders. So IMO it is up for discussion

well i do sort of believe it. These guys must have talked to other ppl too. Normally i pooh pooh conspiracy like theories but this one just seems to fit everything we have heard from gonzales and the bizarre man power, raid like entrance, practicing as if they were going to liberate someone from a hostage situation.

imo

[VC2]

Sure did - just (as I said) didn't believe a word she had to say. Cruz exists, the Judge exists (and I hope we will not use his name) , the Billings were real - I just didn't believe the allegations. But what would I know?- maybe there are big bucks to be made in trafficking special needs children. Everybody wants one (or a dozen), don't they? Apparently this girl is promoting her upcoming radio show.

penny i dont believe a word she is saying about adoptions being child trafficking of special needs kids. What i do believe is that its the type of motive that gonzales and his group believed themselves!!!!

[Lavinia]

penny i dont believe a word she is saying about adoptions being child trafficking of special needs kids. What i do believe is that its the type of motive that gonzales and his group believed themselves!!!!

I can see it. I can also see that's why they left the kids alive even though they can identify them. It's possible.

[VC2]

BINGO!!!! all along it has reminded me of a militia type group/crime even though it "just" killed two people. even had thought of mcveigh and oklahoma bombing, mentioned on one of the threads on this case too. ITA with your post

[Lavinia]

ITA! I think she's using the Billings murder to get publicity for herself and her new radio show.

imo

(Whose new radio show?) TIA!

[jaxback]

penny i dont believe a word she is saying about adoptions being child trafficking of special needs kids. What i do believe is that its the type of motive that gonzales and his group believed themselves!!!!

I don't. If they had taken the children I might have believed that at least one of the ringleaders bought the trafficking nonsense, but they didn't. They went in the house, killed the Billings, took a safe. They left behind all the children - now without adoptive or foster parents - to be sent right back into the system that is being accused of engaging in trafficking.

[Lavinia]

The link I posted above. Read the first paragraph.

http://www.sandiegochildtrafficking.com/

Oh okay, sorry, I just scanned over that. Still looking, actually. Weird.

[Lavinia]

I don't. If they had taken the children I might have believed that at least one of the ringleaders bought the trafficking nonsense, but they didn't. They went in the house, killed the Billings, took a safe. They left behind all the children - now without adoptive or foster parents - to be sent right back into the system that is being accused of engaging in trafficking.

Hey! :punch: Don't unravel our new ball of thread so fast!

(It would HELP if LE would call us and let us in on the down-low. :sneaky:)

[VC2]

I don't. If they had taken the children I might have believed that at least one of the ringleaders bought the trafficking nonsense, but they didn't. They went in the house, killed the Billings, took a safe. They left behind all the children - now without adoptive or foster parents - to be sent right back into the system that is being accused of engaging in trafficking.

I think they did plan to take the children. That is why the 15 seater van even though it was very visible.

Something stopped it, either the one child getting out to go to the neighbors or they realized the surveillance cameras were still on. That they wanted the safe that held mostly the childrens records also points to it.

IMO
eta and all the children were adopted, plans have been made in their will to keep them all together and the daughter says that they will continue to live as a family, i believe she is going to be taking custody. The sheriff confirmed the info in one of his pressers

[Lavinia]

Me too Firefly - sorry if I was snippy. This case gets more and more frustrating, doesn't it?
I know what you mean about not opening links sometimes. I did not open the link within the other link about the woman's upcoming show (shoe?) - the "interactive podcast". I don't plan to participate in that either.
THe "gang must be very disappointed to hear that the safe did not contain any money or valuables. Clearly jewelry is not what the Billings spent their money on.
I hope this helps the gang to decide to tell everything they know about everyone involved in this deed. Whatever they were told - they were duped, weren't they?

Yeah, I have a feeling this gang of knuckleheads is going to be dispersed into housing all over the state after conviction. All of the guys are going to be sworn enemies of the others by the time they all get finished rolling, spinning and otherwise saving their own butts. Oh, this is going to make for some good prison gang violence.

[BevAnn]

okkk.... let me play devil's advocate....and don't yell at me please. :rolleyes:


what if...just IF...there is some truth to her claims? I mean, what if there is something going on the Billings were so well loved and accepted in the community, no one would believe it if someone claimed they were into this type activity.

So, these bunch of dumb arses, very out there in their thinking, decide they have to take down the Billings the only way their demented brains can think to.

Maybe....? I know, it's a stretch but....HEY...a thought, going back to the son...wonder if he had said something along these lines to someone...I don't know. I'm just throwin it out there.

[jaxback]

I think they did plan to take the children. That is why the 15 seater van even though it was very visible.

Something stopped it, either the one child getting out to go to the neighbors or they realized the surveillance cameras were still on. That they wanted the safe that held mostly the childrens records also points to it.

IMO
eta and all the children were adopted, plans have been made in their will to keep them all together and the daughter says that they will continue to live as a family, i believe she is going to be taking custody. The sheriff confirmed the info in one of his pressers

I didn't know the safe held the children's records - that could certainly put a different spin on it. I'm glad the kids are going to be able to remain together. It's all just so twisted and sad. jmo :sad:

[BevAnn]

Lavinia, ITA !! Her ;mouth doesn't move, but her eyes do some times.

Then her perfect mexican accent, goes to true southern at some times.

Here's what I think, she is being video taped by someone else. She probably only speaks spanish. so she does the original part, but who ever is holding the camera is speaking the american part.

Just my opinion.

ETA: cause she seems to be reading from a script too...that's why i dont think it's her speaking.

[firefly75]

Me too Firefly - sorry if I was snippy. This case gets more and more frustrating, doesn't it?
I know what you mean about not opening links sometimes. I did not open the link within the other link about the woman's upcoming show (shoe?) - the "interactive podcast". I don't plan to participate in that either.
THe "gang must be very disappointed to hear that the safe did not contain any money or valuables. Clearly jewelry is not what the Billings spent their money on.
I hope this helps the gang to decide to tell everything they know about everyone involved in this deed. Whatever they were told - they were duped, weren't they?

Penny, YES they were duped! ITA I hope they all are singing like a bird! This case seems like there are going to be lots more rollercoaster rides...so sad the children:(

[MiamiNice1]

Sure did - just (as I said) didn't believe a word she had to say. Cruz exists, the Judge exists (and I hope we will not use his name) , the Billings were real - I just didn't believe the allegations. But what would I know?- maybe there are big bucks to be made in trafficking special needs children. Everybody wants one (or a dozen), don't they? Apparently this girl is promoting her upcoming radio show.
Maybe their warped (to say the least) mindset of "human trafficking" led them to believe there was thousands of dollars in that safe?

[jaxback]

Lavinia, ITA !! Her ;mouth doesn't move, but her eyes do some times.

Then her perfect mexican accent, goes to true southern at some times.

Here's what I think, she is being video taped by someone else. She probably only speaks spanish. so she does the original part, but who ever is holding the camera is speaking the american part.

Just my opinion.

ETA: cause she seems to be reading from a script too...that's why i dont think it's her speaking.

ITA - there are two distinct voices as well as the accent issue. And hey, if she's so proud of her husband and their goals, why not show her face?

[Lavinia]

Lavinia, ITA !! Her ;mouth doesn't move, but her eyes do some times.

Then her perfect mexican accent, goes to true southern at some times.

Here's what I think, she is being video taped by someone else. She probably only speaks spanish. so she does the original part, but who ever is holding the camera is speaking the american part.

Just my opinion.

ETA: cause she seems to be reading from a script too...that's why i dont think it's her speaking.

And why not show her face if she already identifies herself? :confused:

[Lavinia]

ITA - there are two distinct voices as well as the accent issue. And hey, if she's so proud of her husband and their goals, why not show her face?

Oops, ya beat me. Question of mine also.

[Keegan]

One of the first businesses that Billlings owned was an adult entertainment lounge. It looks seedy from the outside. Adult entertainment is not just drinks and dancing. Other things go on in there.

It has been said the DEA is involved and the problem moves outside the states...into other countries.

Billings did move on to used cars after the adult entertainment. Those cars could be used to transport.,

JMO