Michael Jackson~Tuesday, July 14th [Archive]

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 09:04 AM

Good morning, everyone!

We have discussed MJs enablers and it got me to thinking about something. What if the intent wasn't to enable him to appease him but to make him more vulnerable to being controlled?

Somehow I think those who were around him shortly before his death and their own reasons for being there wasn't so they could get on his good side by supplying him drugs but done more so to get their feet back in the door. At the height of MJs career the money flowed like an ocean. Were they now regrouping knowing that the big money was going to start flowing in again and the MJ would be back up and hugely successful again.

Was everyone that crossed his path then trying to get a piece of the pie? Even the real estate agent that rented him his home? Was there inside deals made on that too that MJ didn't know about? Someone behind the scenes working with the Realtor to make some extra cash on a home that actually should have been $10K a month instead of the staggering $100K? MJ had always lived in luxury so he would have no grasp that it was a ridiculous amount to pay, yet those around him certainly would have known it was way way over the top and what it should have rented for. Did he have no sane person there that handled these things or those that even knew about finances?

While I think LaToya and Joe are the most unstable out of the Jackson family I do think she will be right and this will become a homicide case. Her other predictions are a little far fetched though imo.

Btw, I want to thank the posters who have responded on the post yesterday asking me was I a Jackson family member. Strange I have been asked that same question on so many cases through the years.:smile: I am what I am, on each and every case that is discussed here. I am a very passionate person with deep feelings and a high respect for our court system and the BARD standard. If the evidence is lacking in any case then I will certainly let my opinion about that be known but I try very hard to be respectful to everyone and I don't personally attack anyone and I have been a member here for years and years since the beginning of the CTV site. Some still even know me by my first nic. lol

But I do stand firm on my opinions and still I realize that all others are entitled to their own....they just aren't entitled to mine. lol I have so many posters here I deeply admire and respect who have the capacity to debate civilly and not drag a scorecard along of who they agreed with or disagreed with on a particular case. I could never understand that concept or why anyone on a message board would have the need to do so.:confused:

Now back on topic.

imo

ish

07-14-2009, 09:09 AM

LaToya is profitting off of MJ by telling her very tall tales a little too late. Who is this woman kidding? MJ murdered? Sure. MJ didn't do this to himself. Blame everyone but MJ. They knew he was drugged up for years. They didn't get the kids out of there? LaToya has no credibility. imo

Years ago, she said she thought he was guilty of the child molestation charges, then she flipped to he is innocent. She's peddling her stories to anyone who will pay her, same as Joe Jackson. I see Brian Oxman on HLN, JVM and Nancy Grace nearly every night, he's making a nice bundle, so are other Jackson insiders. The more conspiracy stories there are, the more press, the more money rolls in to whoever wants to get out there and talk, and money is what the Jackson family has been all about..

sofiesmom

07-14-2009, 09:29 AM

(respectivly snipped for space)
While I think LaToya and Joe are the most unstable out of the Jackson family I do think she will be right and this will become a homicide case. Her other predictions are a little far fetched though imo.

Btw, I want to thank the posters who have responded on the post yesterday asking me was I a Jackson family member. Strange I have been asked that same question on so many cases through the years.:smile: I am what I am, on each and every case that is discussed here. I am a very passionate person with deep feelings and a high respect for our court system and the BARD standard. If the evidence is lacking in any case then I will certainly let my opinion about that be known but I try very hard to be respectful to everyone and I don't personally attack anyone and I have been a member here for years and years since the beginning of the CTV site. Some still even know me by my first nic. lol(snipped)

imoITA with everything you said. Nice to meet another BARD standard believer. I DO want to know your first nic. I was e*****. lol

ish

07-14-2009, 09:32 AM

Brought this good post over for aproudmom.

aproudmom
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The Hoosier State
Posts: 8,583

Sorry so long but very important IMO

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I am hoping any doctor or nurse who has got on nation TV and told all of AMERICA MJ medical treatment are turned in..for one they are bound by law and have no business talking to ANYONE BUT Law Enforcement I have been so Angry over this and did some research and it does exist after death just as I thought..I am happy the nurse talked or any Doctor but I am NOT happy with the way they did it...and I hope they are punished or sued...just think if it was your family member..

A number of others pointed out that there was no reason to set a different privacy standard for deceased individuals than we had for living individuals and that it has been standard practice to release the information of deceased individuals with a valid consent of the executor, next of kin, or specific court order. as at least one example of a state law where the privacy and access provisions of the law continue to apply to the protected health information of a deceased individual following the death of that individual.

Michael Jackson doctor went too far
The dermatologist who exposed the singer's medical history on "Larry King Live" committed a fundamental violation
By Rahul K. Parikh, M.D.

Last week, Dr. Arnold Klein, Michael Jackson's Beverly Hills dermatologist, showed up on "Larry King Live." Klein is usually described as "the father of cosmetic dermatology" (he pioneered the use of botox for wrinkles) and "the dermatologist to the stars." Klein's bio on his Web site shows him to be a well respected, philanthropic and frequently published medical expert. But Google him and you'll notice few serious publications between the numerous results that land you at TMZ and other Hollywood gossip sites. Klein seems to bask in this world like a lizard under a hot sun. And so it was in the spirit of infotainment that Arnie (as his friends call him) made the decision to dish about Jackson. At best, Klein and King behaved in bad taste. At worst, I was left wondering if Klein and his loose lips crossed a medical law.

Klein went on to reveal many other details, like how he was "rebuilding" Jackson's face before his comeback concert. On the subject of drug use, Klein continued to chat up the audience. He admitted to providing Jackson with Demerol to sedate him

Klein, as if he had Jackson's chart in front of him, dished about the singer's past medical history. "Michael, at one time, had an addiction," he said. "And he went to England and he withdrew that addiction Klein's comments struck me as incredibly disrespectful. More than that, if I or any other doctor revealed those kinds of intimate medical details publicly, we might be vulnerable to a charge of violating federal health privacy laws, a punishable offense.

These laws stem from 1990s legislation known as the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act or HIPAA. Basically, the law forbids medical professionals from disclosing health information unless a patient provides consent to do so. Among other things, HIPAA is the reason that your doctor can't fax a letter to you or transfer your records to another doctor without your filling out permission forms.

What's made HIPAA particularly visible -- and health professionals especially paranoid about it -- are recent stories of violations of celebrity health cases. In 2007, 27 New York Hospital employees were suspended for peeking at George Clooney's medical records after he had a motorcycle accident, as CNN reported. More recently, according to the Los Angeles Times, a UCLA Medical Center employee was disciplined for leaking Farrah Fawcett's (remember her?) records to the National Enquirer.

In the shadow of the Fawcett story, it struck me as bizarre that Klein (who is himself on staff at UCLA) went public about Jackson. What made it even more unusual was that on June 30, Klein's attorney, Richard Charnley, released a statement requesting privacy that directly referenced HIPAA:
http://www.salon.com/env/vital_signs..._arnold_klein/

This Dr Klein is a oddball, MJ found him thru his doctor shopping and groomed him to be his biggest fan and supplier. Just listening to him you can hear his self importance and ego, HE was the one who stopped Michael from getting additional surgeries on his face. HE was reconstructing his nose (a Dermatologist!!!!). Michael was in his office "dancing for his other patients" 3 days before his death. Michael always inquired about his handicapped brother. Didn't he see that all of that "special attention" was Michael ingratiating himself in order to get Klein to continue giving him what he wanted? Michael worked the same magic on Debbie Rowe, Kleins nurse, flattered her, paid attention to her, cultivated her devotion to him in order to get what he wanted, the kids. Then he did his usual reneging on his end of the deal by failing to make the payments he promised her. He has defaulted on so many agreements, that is why I question LaToya's comment on the 2 million dollars. I doubt Michael had that much cash, his finances were a mess, mortgaging one property to pay for another, always one step ahead of foreclosure.

achristie

07-14-2009, 10:22 AM

If this is true, what in the world has Debbie Rowe done with all this money?

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07142009/news/nationalnews/mother_lode_for_jacko_ex_179174.htm

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 10:29 AM

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 10:47 AM

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07142009/news/nationalnews/mother_lode_for_jacko_ex_179174.htm

Jacko's five remaining brothers were filming an A&E pilot for what they hoped would be a reality series about them launching a reunion tour.

While the five initially agreed to be paid a total of between $200,000 and $300,000 for the pilot, they now want to add footage of Michael's funeral into the mix -- and boost their take to "between $10 million and $20 million," the family source said.

Oh my, if this is true, they are all trying to make money off their brother's death and he isn't even buried yet. Very dysfunctional family in my opinion.

IMO

VC2

07-14-2009, 10:53 AM

http://www.showbizspy.com/article/189198/michael-jacksons-mom-makes-deal-with-debbie-rowe

Under the tentative deal struck by Katherine and “Miss Debbie” — as she’s known to the kids not Mom — Rowe promised not to pursue a custody battle in exchange for monthly supervised visits, a source told the New York Post.

So the children know Debbie Rowe. jmo

yes there was some visiting over the years, not much but some, especially when they were younger.

if this is true, i am again disgusted with her. Not bc she got money the first time, i understood that as a sort of business transaction almost like surrogacy.

However to use his death as a way to get more money on the backs of his children this time...that disgusts me. We all know the 4 mil. will come from the estate that should go to his children.

This time she did not "sell" them to MJ. This time she took the money from her own kids showing a shocking lack of wanting to be a parent - whcih we all knew imo - and a greediness that is almost unheard of.

What is she going to say to them if they want to visit her? Well i preferred 4 million to having you and thought you were better off with katherine????? yeah and so why take money?

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 10:56 AM

http://www.zimbio.com/Michael+Jackson/articles/aaR6_GrseTO/Debbie+Rowe+strikes+deal+MJ+mother+Katherine

A source close to Debbie's attorney told the Sunday Mirror: 'The last thing she wanted was for those kids to be looked after by Joe and go through what Michael went through.

CANDYKISSES

07-14-2009, 10:58 AM

yes there was some visiting over the years, not much but some, especially when they were younger.

if this is true, i am again disgusted with her. Not bc she got money the first time, i understood that as a sort of business transaction almost like surrogacy.

However to use his death as a way to get more money on the backs of his children this time...that disgusts me. We all know the 4 mil. will come from the estate that should go to his children.

This time she did not "sell" them to MJ. This time she took the money from her own kids showing a shocking lack of wanting to be a parent - whcih we all knew imo - and a greediness that is almost unheard of.

What is she going to say to them if they want to visit her? Well i preferred 4 million to having you and thought you were better off with katherine????? yeah and so why take money?

It's a new low for Debbie Rowe (if true, but it's being reported many places) and it will forever seal my opinion of her and the business arrangement. JMO.

:wub:Those lovely children deserve so much more and I am praying there will be a guardian ad litem appointed at some point in this tragedy running amuck. At least a guardian ad litem will be compelled to look out for the best interest of all three children if appointed IMOO.

KatieLady

07-14-2009, 11:00 AM

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 11:03 AM

Guess this is why LaToya decided to use MJ too to make a nice little profit for herself. You said it "very dysfuntional family". No wonder MJ turned out the way he did.

imo

http://www.zimbio.com/Michael+Jackson/articles/aaR6_GrseTO/Debbie+Rowe+strikes+deal+MJ+mother+Katherine

La Toya Suspicious of Nanny

La Toya Jackson has suspicions over her late brother Michael's nanny Grace Rwaramba after she re-joined the family following her sacking last year(08). Rwaramba worked for the King of Pop for 17 years, caring for Prince Michael, 12, Paris, 11, and Prince Michael II 'Blanket', seven, before she was dismissed.
Jackson's mother Katherine has been looking after the children since their dad's death last month, alongside Rwaramba who turned up for a day "and has been there ever since". But La Toya is unsure of the nanny's motives for helping out, telling British newspaper the Mail on Sunday, "The family has mixed feelings abouther. Mother says she wants to be with the kids but I warned her to be careful. It's not like the children like or dislike her. They like everyone. Mother is gullible and feels sorry for her".
Tabloid reports also suggest the child carer was Jackson's "secret girlfriend", but La Toya has insisted her brother wasn't in a relationship with the nanny. She adds, "I heard Grace liked Michael but he didn't like her. He let her go last Christmas. I have a lot of questions about Grace. She was instrumental in keeping the family away. All of a sudden she is back, listening and watching the family. I think her behaviour is odd".

VC2

07-14-2009, 11:07 AM

It's a new low for Debbie Rowe (if true, but it's being reported many places) and it will forever seal my opinion of her and the business arrangement. JMO.

:wub:Those lovely children deserve so much more and I am praying there will be a guardian ad litem appointed at some point in this tragedy running amuck. At least a guardian ad litem will be compelled to look out for the best interest of all three children if appointed IMOO.

i sure hope so. I was perplexed yesterday when i heard the stuff about keeping joe away bc imo there is no way to keep a husband from his wife in a freaking 3rd party custody arrangement without joe signing on to it. I also don't think he will be able to use the kids without janet and jermaine putting their foot down and i doubt he has ever hurt any of his grand kids.

That imo was spin to make the deal sound more palatable publicly. katherine may not have much use for joe any longer but that doesn't mean they won't naturally see each other at times including holidays.

No music fan i would not...or if I did i would be fighting for the children which can be argued were rightfully hers. Not taking money from the children.

IF she hadn't been paid fully as she claims (bs imo) she had the recourse and the agreement to go to court and make a claim on the estate.

imo

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 11:10 AM

yes there was some visiting over the years, not much but some, especially when they were younger.

if this is true, i am again disgusted with her. Not bc she got money the first time, i understood that as a sort of business transaction almost like surrogacy.

However to use his death as a way to get more money on the backs of his children this time...that disgusts me. We all know the 4 mil. will come from the estate that should go to his children.

This time she did not "sell" them to MJ. This time she took the money from her own kids showing a shocking lack of wanting to be a parent - whcih we all knew imo - and a greediness that is almost unheard of.

What is she going to say to them if they want to visit her? Well i preferred 4 million to having you and thought you were better off with katherine????? yeah and so why take money?

I'm not sure of that and would like to see a link. I was under the impression Mr. Jackson hadn't paid her all of the original 8.5 million dollars from the divorce settlement.

in my opinion

CANDYKISSES

07-14-2009, 11:14 AM

i sure hope so. I was perplexed yesterday when i heard the stuff about keeping joe away bc imo there is no way to keep a husband from his wife in a freaking 3rd party custody arrangement without joe signing on to it. I also don't think he will be able to use the kids without janet and jermaine putting their foot down and i doubt he has ever hurt any of his grand kids.

That imo was spin to make the deal sound more palatable publicly. katherine may not have much use for joe any longer but that doesn't mean they won't naturally see each other at times including holidays.

No music fan i would not...or if I did i would be fighting for the children which can be argued were rightfully hers. Not taking money from the children.

IF she hadn't been paid fully as she claims (bs imo) she had the recourse and the agreement to go to court and make a claim on the estate.

imo

Indeed she did VC and I think the only reason coming to mind is that CPS would have been called in to go over both homes and interview the children. IMO neither parent on the birth certificates wanted that to come about. JMO and I will add that MJ did make it through the CPS investigation GA started with the youngest.

So what was Debbie Rowe left to fear if she tried to use the court to enforce her ALLEGEDLY legal contract? She really leaves a bad taste in my mouth, just discussing her. barf

Hoping for a GAL for the children. :thumbup:

VC2

07-14-2009, 11:18 AM

http://www.zimbio.com/Michael+Jackson/articles/aaR6_GrseTO/Debbie+Rowe+strikes+deal+MJ+mother+Katherine

La Toya Suspicious of Nanny

La Toya Jackson has suspicions over her late brother Michael's nanny Grace Rwaramba after she re-joined the family following her sacking last year(08). Rwaramba worked for the King of Pop for 17 years, caring for Prince Michael, 12, Paris, 11, and Prince Michael II 'Blanket', seven, before she was dismissed.
Jackson's mother Katherine has been looking after the children since their dad's death last month, alongside Rwaramba who turned up for a day "and has been there ever since". But La Toya is unsure of the nanny's motives for helping out, telling British newspaper the Mail on Sunday, "The family has mixed feelings abouther. Mother says she wants to be with the kids but I warned her to be careful. It's not like the children like or dislike her. They like everyone. Mother is gullible and feels sorry for her".
Tabloid reports also suggest the child carer was Jackson's "secret girlfriend", but La Toya has insisted her brother wasn't in a relationship with the nanny. She adds, "I heard Grace liked Michael but he didn't like her. He let her go last Christmas. I have a lot of questions about Grace. She was instrumental in keeping the family away. All of a sudden she is back, listening and watching the family. I think her behaviour is odd".

Ok music fan, don't faint but i now agree with you about LaToya. She is either paranoid or totally unable to understand normal dynamics. Grace was the kids essential mom for years. They "like her but they like everyone" is ridiculous. She was their continuing stability and imo one of the reasons that they have seemingly turned out pretty well (i also think MJ was a great dad but the balance bw him and grace made it more like a two parent house even tho one was a nanny)

thiat is a bizarre statement

IMO

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 11:18 AM

LaToya is profitting off of MJ by telling her very tall tales a little too late. Who is this woman kidding? MJ murdered? Sure. MJ didn't do this to himself. Blame everyone but MJ. They knew he was drugged up for years. They didn't get the kids out of there? LaToya has no credibility. imo

ITA did you see her as she was leaving her brothers home just a day after his death she made a point to roll her window down and almost acted like she did not want to stop talking..she is one odd cookie...I do not know what happened but I do think her and Ol Pops need to back off and shut their mouths and let LE do their job instead of turning this into a Jackson circus..it is her brother show him some love now that he has passed away..for one he was not murdered we all know that yes charges will be brought but not some big murder trial..sorry I DO NOT see that happening..JMO

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 11:18 AM

I official deem LaToya out of her cotton picking mind. The maid was let go because she spoke up about MJs drug addiction. As we now are well aware anyone who did that got the boot. Katherine called her back because those kids love her. She was essentially their mother. MJ made sure of that.

If LaToya was so concerned about the kids. Where she been before MJ took his last shot in his veins.

imo

LaToya isn't even with them now is she?

Isn't she saying all this stuff from afar?

She is rather a kooky attention starved woman imo.

imo

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 11:21 AM

Ok music fan, don't faint but i now agree with you about LaToya. She is either paranoid or totally unable to understand normal dynamics. Grace was the kids essential mom for years. They "like her but they like everyone" is ridiculous. She was their continuing stability and imo one of the reasons that they have seemingly turned out pretty well (i also think MJ was a great dad but the balance bw him and grace made it more like a two parent house even tho one was a nanny)

thiat is a bizarre statement

IMO

YEAH VC she seems to be paranoid about alot of people so I must say I agree with music fan, also.. I lost it when I read that the other day..

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 11:27 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090714/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_investigation

Michael Jackson toxicology reports expected soon

4 mins ago
LOS ANGELES – A Los Angeles coroner's official says toxicology reports that may determine the cause of Michael Jackson's death could be completed this week.

vonna

07-14-2009, 11:32 AM

If this is true, what in the world has Debbie Rowe done with all this money?

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07142009/news/nationalnews/mother_lode_for_jacko_ex_179174.htm

Just how much money is enough for bearing two children??? This woman has raised greed to new heights.

VC2

07-14-2009, 11:33 AM

LaToya isn't even with them now is she?

Isn't she saying all this stuff from afar?

She is rather a kooky attention starved woman imo.

imo

you know the world has shifted on its axis when we agree with music fan on something :D

another thing, more i hear from latoya the more i understand why he wouldn't take her calls.

Oh and that guy saying he tried to get rid of neverland????? i call b.s. He fought hard to keep a share in it, much harder than he needed to, and if he wanted to get rid of the shares Wishna could have sold them to so many who would have snapped them up and taken a chunk out of MJ's debt too.

IMO

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 11:33 AM

Your impression is spot on. He didn't pay her all of it and left her with a piece of crap car out of the 75 luxurious cars. Tells ya something doesn't it?

Who would have imagined that? LOL

Rowe owed millions from Jackson.

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/rowe-owed-millions-from-jackson_1108786

imo

Music I do not remember where I read it but there was a document stated what she got maybe someone who followed the case will know how to find it..she did get alot though a nice big house which she does not own any longer, a lump sum of some amount and then she was to be paid so much for so many years IIRC Then when she went in front of a Judge when she was asking for the kids she told them she had a credit card debt in the HIGH THOUSANDS, no insurance and alot of money for her horses so he gave her 250,000 and paid her stuff off IIRC..I will try to find it in a bit.. himself.. I will try to hunt it down if someone else knows I hope they can pass the link on..I will say when it was reported 2 weeks before his death he had not been paying her monthly allowance..don't know if true since it was not a legal doc and she was mad he had the kids faces unmasked...I have to make a phone call my cousins,wife 24yr old brother just killed himself

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 11:39 AM

VC2

07-14-2009, 11:40 AM

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 11:47 AM

Just how much money is enough for bearing two children??? This woman has raised greed to new heights.

I just read she will also we talked to since she knew MJ all these years and someone I guess said she made house calls when she was a nurse for Dr Klein..not that it is true but would not shock me I think I put it in the links can not remember half the stuff I read is bologna anyway..

I guess that GIFT was not a gift or why would you want money if you were only in it to make MJ a daddy since she did not wanted not to be a mother...

RootBeer

07-14-2009, 11:52 AM

bkwits

07-14-2009, 11:59 AM

I official deem LaToya out of her cotton picking mind. The maid was let go because she spoke up about MJs drugg addiction. As we now are well aware anyone who did that got the boot. Katherine called her back because those kids love her. She was essentially their mother. MJ made sure of that.

If LaToya was so concerned about the kids. Where she been before MJ took his last shot in his veins.

imo

It has been reported in many places that the children call Debbie Rowe "Miss Debbie" and have been told that she is a family friend. I wonder what Michael or the family told the children when they asked about their mother. Paris and Prince are certainly old enough to ask and want an answer.

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 12:08 PM

Music I do not remember where I read it but there was a document stated what she got maybe someone who followed the case will know how to find it..she did get alot though a nice big house which she does not own any longer, a lump sum of some amount and then she was to be paid so much for so many years IIRC Then when she went in front of a Judge when she was asking for the kids she told them she had a credit card debt in the HIGH THOUSANDS, no insurance and alot of money for her horses so he gave her 250,000 and paid her stuff off IIRC..I will try to find it in a bit.. himself.. I will try to hunt it down if someone else knows I hope they can pass the link on..I will say when it was reported 2 weeks before his death he had not been paying her monthly allowance..don't know if true since it was not a legal doc and she was mad he had the kids faces unmasked...I have to make a phone call my cousins,wife 24yr old brother just killed himself

http://www.ericphillips.info/media/jackson_judgment_doc.pdf

Here are some partial court documents that Ms. Rowe filed in 2006.
I believe they are partial because it was settled out of court.

It does show the settlement reached in 1999.

At the time, it appears she wasn't going back to court to get more money or asking for the children, but to get money owed. It appears the original 8.5 million settlement was not being paid.

Now, I believe she will get the rest of what was originally owed her and maybe some interest earned.

I think two children, for the price of 8.5 million, was a good deal for Mr. Jackson. After all a child is priceless.

I hope this helps. I am very sorry to hear about your tragedy.

my opinions here are my own

bkwits

07-14-2009, 12:09 PM

Just how much money is enough for bearing two children??? This woman has raised greed to new heights.

Did Debbie Rowe get a divorce settlement in addition to the 8.5 million? Or was that the divorce settlement. It doesn't seem that much for a marriage of 3 years to a star worth $100's of millions.

IMO

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 12:15 PM

Did Debbie Rowe get a divorce settlement in addition to the 8.5 million? Or was that the divorce settlement. It doesn't seem that much for a marriage of 3 years to a star worth $100's of millions.

IMO

I just posted a link to court documents that sheds some light on this subject.

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 12:21 PM

A very helpful one I might add. It does clear up some of the confusion. Thank you.

imo

:thumbsup:

I believe Ms. Rowe is treated very unfairly by the media which fuels unfavorable publicity for her. She has never said anything about the settlement or is able to defend herself. She probably signed a non-disclosure form of some sort.

my opinion only

VC2

07-14-2009, 12:23 PM

VC2, whenever someone asks you for a link, you stop posting and watch. Will you please find where MJ said he would love to return to Neverland. I google for it and come up with "I will never go back, ever". How did you hear differently? Is there some secret interview MJ gave?

imo

first find my post where i said he would love to return to neverland before i find a link for something i do not think i said.

I know he said he would not go back after the trial, absolutely normal reaction. After a few years peoples feelings change and i believe the evidence of that is the fact he worked hard to keep his shares of Neverland rather than sell them all as he could have when it was going to be foreclosed on.

IMO

eta this is not the only forum or board that i post on. I often watch or go and post on other threads and then come back. I just got a huge package from someone in australia who is on recipezaar, filled with macadamia nuts and spices and chocolate so i have been zmailing her thank yous and looking at recipes to tag in the safari supper club cooking tag game forums. Also seeing what tags are due today so i know what i need to cook. Since you seem so concerned about why i am not posting all the time.

IMO

LordMisRule

07-14-2009, 12:25 PM

VC2, whenever someone asks you for a link, you stop posting and watch. Will you please find where MJ said he would love to return to Neverland. I google for it and come up with "I will never go back, ever". How did you hear differently? Is there some secret interview MJ gave?

imo

I think you are spot on. When Jermaine started his interviews with MSNBC and CNN, telling everybody that Neverland was where Michael should be buried, that he would want that - I was shocked. Michael Jackson has always stated that he never never wanted to go back. His feelings were so strong that he removed everything, not even an 8x10 picture frame is there. He could have gone back numerous times over the past years, but he did not. He chose instead to rent a house for an exorbitant amount of money upon arrival in California. I think Jermaine (and most likely others in the Jackson clan), is seeing Neverland as a potential cash cow.

LordMisRule

07-14-2009, 12:34 PM

Watching LKL (transcript above) last night I don't think LaToya was using the word "murder" as in deliberate intent.

IF Dr. Murray gave MJ this anaesthesia that he was not equipped to administer; had no right to administer then the legal TH's are saying that according to CA law; this can result in a Murder 2 charge. JMO

Well, according to the British newspaper that conducted the interview,she suspects her brother was murdered in a conspiracy by a shadowy entourage

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/07/13/jackson.latoya/index.html

By saying the word "conspiracy", this implies that there was premeditation. Not saying that I agree or disagree with her assessment, but IMO, she is clearly stating that it was deliberate, and it was for money.

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 12:39 PM

you know the world has shifted on its axis when we agree with music fan on something :D

another thing, more i hear from latoya the more i understand why he wouldn't take her calls.

Oh and that guy saying he tried to get rid of neverland????? i call b.s. He fought hard to keep a share in it, much harder than he needed to, and if he wanted to get rid of the shares Wishna could have sold them to so many who would have snapped them up and taken a chunk out of MJ's debt too.

IMO

Yes, I find it very suspect when those who had not even seen MJ recently to come out and say what he could or could not do in the last few months of his life. Just wanting to get their name in the mix, imo. LOL! I guess they cant believe that MJ rehearsed all the time and danced and sang at least four hours straight at a time and sometimes longer.

It seems to me that the actual ones around MJ sure thought he could do it while of course those from afar said they knew he couldn't.

He had no clue if MJ had changed his mind. Wasn't Neverland being remodeled. Why would MJ pay a fourth of that? Why even keep a forth if he wanted nothing to do with Neverland ever?

The guy said he tried to sell it.........hmmmm, really? then evidently MJ said "no" because anyone with a lick of sense would have scooped that beautiful home, including almost 3,000 acres of prime land, up in a heartbeat.

imo

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 12:40 PM

2001 signed her rights away..legal document on the link

Q. When is the last time you saw the children?
A. I think it was either August or October of last year when I gave up my visitation rights.

Q. Have you communicated with either of the children --
A. No.

Q. -- Over the past year?
A. Not at all.

Q. Do you wish to communicate with the children?
A. No.

Q. Do you ever have the desire to call the children over the telephone?
A. No.

Q. Do you have a desire to send any cards or letters to the children?
A. No.

Q. Do you want the court to terminate your parental right?
A. Yes

Q. Okay.
A. Because --

Q. That was my next question. Why?
A. Because Michael is a wonderful man, first of all, a brilliant father. And it's the best -- as their mother, it is the best interest for the children. I don't know if Judge Lachs understands this. But when I was seeing them every 45 days, it felt like an intrusion on their life and they're going to have enough intrusions as it is. I don't want to be part of it.

I'm absolutely around if ever Michael needs me, if the children need me for a liver, kidney, a hello, whatever, I will always be around for him. These are his children. I had the children for him. They wouldn't be on this planet if it wasn't for my love of him. I did it for him to become a father. Not for me to become a mother.You earn the title parent. I have done absolutely nothing to earn that title.

]Q. How long have you thought about your decision?
A. Since -- I've thought about it for a year. The reason I didn't do it a year ago, everybody would have gone "UH", "Uh", "Uh", GASP, GASP, GASP. "Oh my God, have you thought this out?" So just so everybody understands, I've thought about this a lot. And this is -- this is for what's the best for the kids.

The only way Rowe has a foot in the door today is because of a technicality; a procedure not correctly followed when executing the termination of her rights caused the termination to be invalid. But there was no doubt she sought to terminate her parental rights and no doubt she appeared not to want any deep connection to Prince and Paris.
http://site2.mjeol.com/mj-related/daming-docs-from-debbie-rowe-parental-rights-termination-hearing.html

Hey Paula

07-14-2009, 12:41 PM

LaToya is profitting off of MJ by telling her very tall tales a little too late. Who is this woman kidding? MJ murdered? Sure. MJ didn't do this to himself. Blame everyone but MJ. They knew he was drugged up for years. They didn't get the kids out of there? LaToya has no credibility. imo

I heard about LaToya's claim that MJ was murdered "because he was worth a lot of money", and it seemed strange to me. How would killing the proverbial golden goose benefit the would-be murderer/s? I'm not following this case, but perhaps you know if anyone in MJ's "entourage" was mentioned in MJ's will, as this would be the only reason her statement might make sense. Do you think she might be referring to the executors of MJ's will since they will control his assets?

TIA for your reply.

CANDYKISSES

07-14-2009, 12:56 PM

I believe this will be settled out of court. If so a guardian ad litem will not be appointed.

In my opinion

That remains to be seen at this time. I'll bet Debbie Rowe doesn't want to let this get too far for a plethora of reasons. Didn't she go to court regarding the children to have her parental rights terminated?

Back to the current state of affairs, I don't recall seeing any paperwork filed in the courts closing out the will or dismissing the postponed hearing concerning child custody. I have great faith in child advocates who will watch closely as this unfolds.

JMOOC. :wink:

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 01:00 PM

CANDYKISSES

07-14-2009, 01:04 PM

aproudmom,

That story is pretty outdated. DRs rights were reinstated per the courts.

Do you have a link explaining why Debbie Rowe was not granted her request to TERMINATE HER PARENTAL RIGHT?

Aproudmom has certainly given us enough to formulate an opinion on Debbie's wishes and Debbie Rowe even went so far as to explain she had considered the negative publicity she might endure, thus explaining her timing IMO.

So where is the beef?

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 01:11 PM

That remains to be seen at this time. I'll bet Debbie Rowe doesn't want to let this get too far for a plethora of reasons. Didn't she go to court regarding the children to have her parental rights terminated?

Back to the current state of affairs, I don't recall seeing any paperwork filed in the courts closing out the will or dismissing the postponed hearing concerning child custody. I have great faith in child advocates who will watch closely as this unfolds.

JMOOC. :wink:

Her parental rights were restored by the courts IIRC.

If the parties settle, they will present the settlement to the judge for approval. I think that will happen. The hearing for child custody continues to be postponed because the parties are working to settle.

The will will be probated on August the 3rd, I believe, and the executors will become permanent. As per Mr. Jackson will, they are now the temporary administrators and not Mr. Jackson's mother any longer.

my opinion of course

bkwits

07-14-2009, 01:13 PM

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 01:20 PM

alot of info on this link..not that I want to bring up a trial but alot I had not read..so just thought I would link it..I know I was on the bad side and did not care if it was a NG verdict without even looking into it for one because once you have a allegation of abuse of a child you will never live that down people will always base their opinion on the Nancy Grace's JVM, Diane Diamonds, MB...which I have not tuned into Nancy or JVM since the day MJ died and I am a huge supporter and fan of Nancy usually watch her 3 times a night..but so sick of the twisted stuff that I listened to years ago...JMO

Media Still Refusing to Accept the Truth a Year after Acquittal? - MB#309 UPDATE
http://site2.mjeol.com/mjeol-bullet/media-still-refusing-to-accept-the-truth-a-year-after-acquittal-–-mb-309-update.html
Maybe it physically hurts for some of them to admit the accuser's testimony was all over the place, illogical in certain instances, and conflicted with that of his siblings? testimony and the testimonies of numerous witnesses?

alot of links
http://site2.mjeol.com/downloads/Download/TrialTranscripts/TrialTranscript:JamieMasadaMarch292005.html

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 01:28 PM

The story did indicate that her rights were reinstated. However, it was only because DR cannot legally terminate her own rights - DCFS has to get involved. It still doesn't take away the truth of the matter or her intention. JMO

I really can't understand what difference the reason for reinstatement makes? The courts reinstated them and that's what's important here. It's seems the original court made an error and the rights were restored. That's the reason in a nut shell.

just my opinion of course

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 01:32 PM

I posted the link on your above post.

Thank you.

Hey Paula

07-14-2009, 01:35 PM

Hi Hey Paula,

She thinks he is worth more dead than alive apparently. No one in his entourage was mentioned in the will that I'm aware of. So what LaToya says (while she collected money for the interview) makes no sense.

Back to the executors. I don't think she is referring to them. The executors were not around MJ in person. Only doctors and his security.

IMO, this is just her way to place blame on anyone but MJ so she can get some dough in her pocket.

imo

Hi Music Fan!

Thanks for your reply and for sharing your opinion. I think you're right. Unlike, Janet, LaToya hasn't had staying power. If her goal was to draw attention to herself, by making such a sensational and startling statement, she certainly succeeded.

IMO

bkwits

07-14-2009, 01:46 PM

I'm going with you on this even though I didn't like what DR got herself into with MJ. Bet ya she regrets it judging by some of her statements. She was used and spat out like a POG. imo

Didn't LaToya say "DR better not try getting the children back or else. I have info on her and will use it?".

If this statement came out of her very altered face. How dumb!! DR has all the inside scoop and has the truth about Blanket. She can use if she wants to. LaToya better back off. imo

Have no idea if it's true, but I read that at least 4 members of the Jackson family are backing custody for Debbie Rowe.

IMO

Rayosunshine

07-14-2009, 01:54 PM

http://www.zimbio.com/Michael+Jackson/articles/aaR6_GrseTO/Debbie+Rowe+strikes+deal+MJ+mother+Katherine

La Toya Suspicious of Nanny

La Toya Jackson has suspicions over her late brother Michael's nanny Grace Rwaramba after she re-joined the family following her sacking last year(08). Rwaramba worked for the King of Pop for 17 years, caring for Prince Michael, 12, Paris, 11, and Prince Michael II 'Blanket', seven, before she was dismissed.
Jackson's mother Katherine has been looking after the children since their dad's death last month, alongside Rwaramba who turned up for a day "and has been there ever since". But La Toya is unsure of the nanny's motives for helping out, telling British newspaper the Mail on Sunday, "The family has mixed feelings abouther. Mother says she wants to be with the kids but I warned her to be careful. It's not like the children like or dislike her. They like everyone. Mother is gullible and feels sorry for her".
Tabloid reports also suggest the child carer was Jackson's "secret girlfriend", but La Toya has insisted her brother wasn't in a relationship with the nanny. She adds, "I heard Grace liked Michael but he didn't like her. He let her go last Christmas. I have a lot of questions about Grace. She was instrumental in keeping the family away. All of a sudden she is back, listening and watching the family. I think her behaviour is odd".

I thought Grace was still the nanny. Who was caring for the children (the nanny) at the time of Michael's death? Thanks

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 01:55 PM

With all the dysfunction and pure greed in the Jackson family, maybe, sad to say, Debbie Rowe should be given custody of the children. After all, horses and dogs are very therapeutic for grieving children.

IMO

My question is how do we know she is any better..anyone who says she does not want a child to call her mom does not want to talk to them and takes money is not what I call a good parent and also those kids would be split up do you want to see that not knowing how she would raise them..I read a interview last night MTV did awhile back all she talked about was her babys and not the 2 beautiful children her dogs and horses....

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 01:58 PM

I thought Grace was still the nanny. Who was caring for the children (the nanny) at the time of Michael's death? Thanks

I think they had a new one..but not sure..since most of what was reported about Grace saying she had to pump his stomach was the same one that said she was worried for the kids with the new nanny..and she has denied those ridiculous media accusations against her or what she did not say

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 02:00 PM

They don't want Joe anywhere near them is why. Good for them if this is true. imo

I thought they said Joe would not be in the picture? that would be part of the agreement is that not true..he needs to hop a plane along with Latoya back to Vegas IMO

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 02:03 PM

Have no idea if it's true, but I read that at least 4 members of the Jackson family are backing custody for Debbie Rowe.

IMO

do you have the link or who wants her to have custody I had not heard that...I can not see 4 of them saying split the kids up and send them off to a mom they do not even know..don't believe everything you read...most is untrue...

CANDYKISSES

07-14-2009, 02:04 PM

The story did indicate that her rights were reinstated. However, it was only because DR cannot legally terminate her own rights - DCFS has to get involved. It still doesn't take away the truth of the matter or her intention. JMO

You bet it doesn't Athena. I can remember hearing the COURT WOULD NOT LET HER without a very scrutinizing and grueling study done by CPS on both names on the BC IIRC. Even that would require the panel to come to a conclusion. I have yet to see where Debbie was ASKING to have her parental right reinstated.

The simple matter is that the RECORD STANDS on the COURT REFUSING HER REQUEST TO HAVE such TERMINATED and her answers are forever documented in the courts. :sad: My heart hurts for those children and I wish nothing but the best for them. :wub:

If the truth be known, I'd rather her stick to the money grubbing (IMOO) as opposed to trying to pretend she really has a maternal bone in her body. Good grief, I'm proud to say, I don't know one woman who could possibly answer those questions as she did EVEN FOR THE LOVE OF MONEY....:thumbup: All JMO.

Rayosunshine

07-14-2009, 02:04 PM

As an R.N., I am really interested in knowing more about the M.D. who was present at the time of his death. All's been very quiet about him.

Also itching for information relative to the diprivan. Thoses bottles/vials have lot numbers on them and the company that distributes would have to keep very clear records as to where what lot went. Could be that someone in a hospital, same day surgery office or plastic surgery office could have their hands in deep doodoo. Or, some private doc could have taken delivery of the drug - I sure hope the LA police know to back track the lot numbers.

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 02:06 PM

I stand by my opinion that it does not change her intention; her statements were taken under oath - giving birth does not make one a mother.

Original order voided

After the lower court refused Jackson's request to overturn that order, he appealed to the 2nd District, which ruled against the entertainer and held that the original order terminating Rowe's parental rights was voided.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-377390/Court-sides-Jacksons-ex-wife.html#ixzz0LG1Ri4Sk&C

In my opinion Mr. Jackson wanted Ms. Rowe to give up her rights and she was complying with what he wanted. This did work out well for her in any event.

my opinion only

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 02:07 PM

ELIZABETH TAYLOR GOES TO HOSPITAL ACHING FOR MJ:sad:

ELIZABETH Taylor is in an LA hos pital. Brought there yesterday from her Beverly Hills home. Not to add aggravation onto the Jacksons, but the source of her condition is simply: The heart's gone out of her.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07142009/gossip/cindy/elizabeth_taylor_goes_to_hospital_aching_179081.ht m

bkwits

07-14-2009, 02:15 PM

My question is how do we know she is any better..anyone who says she does not want a child to call her mom does not want to talk to them and takes money is not what I call a good parent and also those kids would be split up do you want to see that not knowing how she would raise them..I read a interview last night MTV did awhile back all she talked about was her babys and not the 2 beautiful children her dogs and horses....

I'll grant you that she is an unlikeable person. I hope that she and KJ can work something out so that they can share custody or something. If someone like Rebbie or Janet got custody, maybe it wouldn't be too bad, but I think Joe would still be in the mix. DR has said that she would also be willing to raise the youngest child. The Jackson brothers, as well as the father, seem dysfunctional. At least 2 brothers have fathered chidren by the same woman.

IMO

bkwits

07-14-2009, 02:21 PM

do you have the link or who wants her to have custody I had not heard that...I can not see 4 of them saying split the kids up and send them off to a mom they do not even know..don't believe everything you read...most is untrue...

I tried to find the link but haven't been able to so far. It was not in the mainstream media. I did preface that I don't know whether it is true and backed it with IMO. I thought maybe someone else had seen it. I am worried about both scenarious --- being with the Jackson family or with Debbie.

IMO

vonna

07-14-2009, 02:25 PM

Hi Music Fan!

Thanks for your reply and for sharing your opinion. I think you're right. Unlike, Janet, LaToya hasn't had staying power. If her goal was to draw attention to herself, by making such a sensational and startling statement, she certainly succeeded.

IMO

I wonder if she would have that opinion if there were no money in it????

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 02:33 PM

I sure hope these people get turned in..I tried but has to be the person or family..I find this so disgusting and they just keep coming out...no matter what some make think of him he does deserve his privacy by a law and allow LE to do their job with out these idiots coming out of the woodwork..:rolleyes: 3 freaking days do we have any medical person can you put someone under for that long with out having them on machines I know they do not like to put a trachea in singers because of the vocal cords and also it is not good to be put out that long...I do not believe this for one minute

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07142009/news/nationalnews/jacko_wanted_to_be_put_under_for_days_at_179212.ht m
He would spend up to 72 hours lying "like a living corpse", according to former plastic surgery nurse Kathryn Buschelle

Kathryn, 41, the long-term partner of one of Jacko's surgeons, said the star became addicted after being given Diprivan to cope with the pain of continuous laser facial peels to lighten his skin

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 02:36 PM

The Jackson family dissed her. How sad is that? I really thought she wanted to grieve privately according to her twitter comments. They had no problem bringing in people who barely knew him instead. Gets sicker by the minute. imo

Who did they bring in that barely knew him.

Almost everyone that spoke was so emotional that they choked back tears whether it was men, women or his children.

How did they diss Elizabeth. She was seen on the huge screen telling Michael how much she loved him.

imo

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 02:38 PM

NY Post is the worst paper in NY -- they might as well be categorized as a tabloid. They are quoting this tabloid:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2533874/Michael-Jackson-begged-doctors-Put-me-to-sleep.html

IMO, most of it is a gossip rag. You can tell by how it is written.

The Sun is the same one that said DR more or less thought more of her brood mares than her children. She denied she ever talked to them.
The Sun is the one that said the nanny told them she had to pump out MJs stomach. She denied she ever talked to this tabloid and doesnt even know how to pump someone's stomach out.

imo

Ice Cycle

07-14-2009, 02:41 PM

I'll grant you that she is an unlikeable person. I hope that she and KJ can work something out so that they can share custody or something. If someone like Rebbie or Janet got custody, maybe it wouldn't be too bad, but I think Joe would still be in the mix. DR has said that she would also be willing to raise the youngest child. The Jackson brothers, as well as the father, seem dysfunctional. At least 2 brothers have fathered chidren by the same woman.

IMO

Well to me it obvious why he left KJ in charge of the children and Diana R next, for their judgment compared to anyone else in the mix. I personally believe if DR gets visitation rights that she should have to pay child support the same way that anyone else would in her situation especially with the acceptance of millions of dollars to forfeit her rights.

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 02:47 PM

IMO we should not even be allowed to link to a tabloid. They add nothing to a meaningful discussion. I saw that article and totally ignored it until I saw the NY Post article mom linked to. A tabloid reports it and then mainstream media picks it up? This is just sick. The media needs to be held accountable for the horrible information they have disseminated since MJ's death. It is sickening. JMHO

aproudmom - just want to clarify -- you linked to a paper that is supposed to be truthful yet their report is based on a tabloid so this is not personal :)

Yep, that is exactly what CNN and HLNs does too..:rolleyes:

If the Sun prints it ........they just run with it. They never contact the person who is supposed to have given the interview. If they had then DR would have dropped them another F bomb telling them to leave her the h&ll alone and Grace would have a chance to deny her supposed interview too.

imo

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 02:49 PM

LaToya absolutely can be kooky -- but I don't rule out everything she says. When Tito's ex-wife was found in a swimming pool - it was ruled accidental drowning. LaToya is the one that came out and said it was murder; the case was re-opened and she was 100% correct and the guy is serving time right now for murder JMO

Wow, I wasn't aware of that.

bkwits

07-14-2009, 02:51 PM

Well to me it obvious why he left KJ in charge of the children and Diana R next, for their judgment compared to anyone else in the mix. I personally believe if DR gets visitation rights that she should have to pay child support the same way that anyone else would in her situation especially with the acceptance of millions of dollars to forfeit her rights.

Katherine is prob all right, but I don't think she can protect the children from being exploited by others in the family. A seed of that has been planted. At least DR seems to want to protect them, even if some of her ideas are misguided (such as veils and masks). IMO, the children cannot have any degree of normalcy in Katherine's home. Isn't it legally or technically still Joe's home. Can a judge issue a restraining order against a man being in his own home? IMO, Joe (and maybe other Jacksons) will not rest until the children are onstage or getting publicity. However, I do believe that the children should spend ample time with the Jackson family. IMO

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 02:59 PM

I tried to find the link but haven't been able to so far. It was not in the mainstream media. I did preface that I don't know whether it is true and backed it with IMO. I thought maybe someone else had seen it. I am worried about both scenarious --- being with the Jackson family or with Debbie.

IMO

oh no problem I just had not heard that..I believe you I don't know that they can all agree on anything and that is why MJ is still not laid to rest as far as we know I guess...did not mean to sound like I did not believe you just wondered who would be against MJ mother caring for them..she needs to get Joe out of the picture and with all honesty it would be good for the kids to get to know DR in a way in case something would happen to KJ if they can all get along..that would be good for the kids and maybe they could get a bond at some point..I am not sure DR can handle the media and the kids brings media she is a private person from all I have seen and read and does not like being chased down..so that worries me I also read that Latoya said her brother wanted Rebbie to take care of them and they felt there could be another will..now that is out of mouth of LJ pie hole so dont know if true..

boo

07-14-2009, 03:05 PM

Who did they bring in that barely knew him.

Almost everyone that spoke was so emotional that they choked back tears whether it was men, women or his children.

How did they diss Elizabeth. She was seen on the huge screen telling Michael how much she loved him.

imo

John Mayer for one. He openly admitted he never even met Michael Jackson and thought it was a prank call when they called him to perform.

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 03:11 PM

http://www.rxlist.com/diprivan-drug.htm

OVERDOSE
If overdosage occurs, DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion administration should be discontinued immediately. Overdosage is likely to cause cardiorespiratory depression. Respiratory depression should be treated by artificial ventilation with oxygen. Cardiovascular depression may require repositioning of the patient by raising the patient's legs, increasing the flow rate of intravenous fluids, and administering pressor agents and/or anticholinergic agents.

THANKS for the link this should never have been given in a home a doctor and MJ was playing Russian roulette IMO

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 03:14 PM

John Mayer for one. He openly admitted he never even met Michael Jackson and thought it was a prank call when they called him to perform.

Ok. The entire memorial was packed full of singers and those who eulogized MJ.

Do you know more than one that did not know him out of the vast amount who did.

Was he the instrumentalist that MJ had liked?

imo

boo

07-14-2009, 03:15 PM

Ok. The entire memorial was packed full of singers and those who eulogized MJ.

Do you know more than one that did not know him out of the vast amount who did.

Was he the instrumentalist that MJ had liked?

imo

I merely answered the question "who did they bring in that barely knew him".

I answered it.

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 03:24 PM

Evidence, not LaToya helped this case. :rolleyes:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n9_v94/ai_21248720/

LaToya has a long history of lying to get money and then retracting. Google her. You'll see. imo

Wonder if they had the "evidence" why the DA had to re-opened the case?

Maybe the ME was on a vacation or something.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-15991296.html

D.A. reopens drowning case of Tito Jackson's ex-wife.

imo

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 03:25 PM

This info is pretty much known. Lynda(with a Y) posted many articles on this. Who did it is the question ??? :ohmy:

K Athena I am lost I went and read everything what do you mean who did it? did what ?some of it is all doc talk to me...lol

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 03:31 PM

Wonder if they had the "evidence" why the DA had to re-opened the case?

Maybe the ME was on a vacation or something.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-15991296.html

D.A. reopens drowning case of Tito Jackson's ex-wife.

imo

omg I kept trying to find out which of the boys wife died the other night and forgot who someone said...

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 03:31 PM

LOS ANGELES, CA – John Mayer performed at Michael Jackson’s memorial last night. Sources confirm that Mayer was never invited and instead snuck in.

:tonguewag::biggrin::lol:

I do have to admit all of it is so loony but it is hilarious too.

imo

flipflop

07-14-2009, 03:33 PM

tmz has a live stream outside Dr Klein's office.

http://www.tmz.com/

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 03:34 PM

omg I kept trying to find out which of the boys wife died the other night and forgot who someone said...

And we know from past experiences on other cases many times they are reopened because the family kept insisting the death wasn't an accident.

imo

lilismom

07-14-2009, 03:36 PM

I posted that already. As I said above I know for a fact I read this in a tabloid PRIOR to the coroner releasing the info and said Dee Dee could not even swim. LaToya knew about the autopsy as she does in this case as well. They do have a copy of MJ's autopsy from the 2nd one the Jackson's requested. JMHO

Howdy Athena and everyone. Long time no see HEY PAULA. I hope you are well :).

I am waiting on pins and needles for the tox results and autopsy report. I am surprised that we haven't heard the results of the 2nd autopsy yet. Anyone know who performed the 2nd one?

I think the issue of custody will come down to Prince Michael II. He's not Debbie's and I don't think any judge will split them up, especially these 3 kids. Paris and Prince are old enough to be asked their opinion. I wonder if anyone has asked them? Wouldn't it be a hoot if they picked NONE of them? "Um, can we go live with Angelina and Brad"?

IMO,
Lilismom

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 03:38 PM

Who did they bring in that barely knew him.

Almost everyone that spoke was so emotional that they choked back tears whether it was men, women or his children.

How did they diss Elizabeth. She was seen on the huge screen telling Michael how much she loved him.

imo

if true she said they did not allow her to come to the memorial because she was MJ friend and not theirs..now believe it or not..I though she just could not handle it..and in such short notice I am sure it was hard to get everyone there.. I think Justin T could not fly in on time and Madonna had her concert in the UK...plus we all saw the BET awards they did a wonderful job of remembering him...I think it was just to hard on some..

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 03:40 PM

Yes it was because of MJ:
Sheehan was going to perform in the concerts.

"KING: How did they get you to do that? How did they call you? What happened?

JAFARGHOLI: Well, you know, Michael was meant to be doing his string of tour dates and because I was on "Britain's Got Talent," he saw me on YouTube and he wanted me to appear with him on his --

KING: In London.

JAFARGHOLI: Yeah in London. And so you know, unfortunately he passed away. And so they were setting up a memorial very short notice, you know. And they were discussing it with Kenny Ortega, the guy who was going to direct the show in London and you know, they finally agreed -- apparently he used to watch me on YouTube every day. He used to really like me.

KING: Did you like the idea?

JAFARGHOLI: I just, when I first heard, I couldn't believe it. I mean, I was to be honest, honored to be invited. When I found out I was in the '02 dates, that was amazing as well.

KING: You were going to sing in that concert.

JAFARGHOLI: I was going to be singing a duet of "Feel The World" with him."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/08/lkl.01.html

I know he had to be so honored to have a chance to sing with MJ. I sure wish it had happened. I had already heard how much MJ liked him and he is an amazing little singer in his own right. Love those dimples.:smile:

And it was perfect when he stood up there and sang his heart out. IIRC, he said he was singing for Michael. He felt so proud and it showed.

imo

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 03:42 PM

NY Post is the worst paper in NY -- they might as well be categorized as a tabloid. They are quoting this tabloid:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2533874/Michael-Jackson-begged-doctors-Put-me-to-sleep.html

I dont live there but I trust ya..actually I do not trust any of them not TMZ not Fox no one I think they all twist it..

lilismom

07-14-2009, 03:43 PM

Hi ya lilli -- good to c ya. LOL

It was a private autopsy and to my knowledge I do not believe the name was released.

The tox report is supposed to be available by Friday or early next week.

:)

I am shocked that no name was released and I am shocked it wasn't Baden or Wecht or even Perper or some other well known pathologist.

Can't wait. Sick and sad I know, that I can't wait for an autopsy/tox report, but I can't wait for the guessing to be over.

IMO,
Lilismom

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 03:47 PM

I know he had to be so honored to have a chance to sing with MJ. I sure wish it had happened. I had already heard how much MJ liked him and he is an amazing little singer in his own right. Love those dimples.:smile:

And it was perfect when he stood up there and sang his heart out. IIRC, he said he was singing for Michael. He felt so proud and it showed.

imo

he sung MJ song at the audition and then on the tour he played the young MJ it was real cute I watched them the other night on YouTube..that is how MJ saw him on YouTube and told the family he was great..so they called him I was glad to see they used his dancers and back up singers at the memorial..they did a great job

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 03:48 PM

if true she said they did not allow her to come to the memorial because she was MJ friend and not theirs..now believe it or not..I though she just could not handle it..and in such short notice I am sure it was hard to get everyone there.. I think Justin T could not fly in on time and Madonna had her concert in the UK...plus we all saw the BET awards they did a wonderful job of remembering him...I think it was just to hard on some..

I don't believe it for one nano second that they didn't let her come. Preposterous and most of the stuff that is pouring out in rag mags, blogs and media outlets that have turned tabloid is BS imo. If they were excluding her love, they wouldn't have made sure she was up on the big screen telling MJ she loved him. I believe 1/100th of what is coming out like toxic waste.:rolleyes:

Liz loved MJ totally and they would never keep her from that service. I think LT was and is still devastated by losing him and knowing she can never talk or see him again and evidently LT has her own serious medical problems and is getting on up in age. I am sure the crush of the crowd and media would have just been too much stress for her.

imo

Nic99

07-14-2009, 03:48 PM

he sung MJ song at the audition and then on the tour he played the young MJ it was real cute I watched them the other night on YouTube..that is how MJ saw him on YouTube and told the family he was great..so they called him I was glad to see they used his dancers and back up singers at the memorial..they did a great job

Totally agree, crikey, he was amazing and a joy to watch....

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 03:49 PM

There is no reason for you to go searching for info that is relevant to the topic. :thumbdown:
imo

ok thanks you both have me lost now..I read all that why is it posted if it is not relevant...darn it..:wink: I was not going to go search believe me I have read enough about that drug

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 03:52 PM

I don't live there but I trust ya..actually I do not trust any of them not TMZ not Fox no one I think they all twist it..

Yep, they twisted it like a pretzel.

I agree the only ones I half way trust is Associated Press and they too have been known to get somethings wrong.

imo

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 03:56 PM

I don't believe it for one nano second that they didn't let her come. Preposterous and most of the stuff that is pouring out in rag mags, blogs and media outlets that have turned tabloid imo. If they were excluding her love, they wouldn't have made sure she was up on the big screen telling MJ she loved him. I believe 1/100th of what is coming out like toxic waste.:rolleyes:

Liz loved MJ totally and they would never keep her from that service. I think LT was and is still devastated by losing him and knowing she can never talk or see him again and evidently LT has her own serious medical problems and is getting on up in age. I am sure the crush of the crowd and media would have just been too much stress for her.

imo

I know I hope if she is in the hospital she is ok..that was more of what worried me not that she was not there she sent a twitter out saying she was not on suicide watch she just wanted to grieve for her friend in her own way...she was actually the 2nd person I thought of when he died his kids then her..I had watched a video of her decorating his home and tree for Christmas since he never had one and they were so cute opening up the super soakers I bet he got 5 of them..very touching he was like a kid in a candy store..

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 03:58 PM

tmz has a live stream outside Dr Klein's office.

http://www.tmz.com/

Gosh this is about as exciting as watching paint dry. How can someone just sit there watching a door for hours on end?

LOL Crazy!

flipflop

07-14-2009, 04:02 PM

Gosh this is about as exciting as watching paint dry. How can someone just sit there watching a door for hours on end?

LOL Crazy!

I know. What are they waiting to see? Someone walk out carrying a box of files? Big deal. :smile:

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 04:05 PM

I know - I looked at it and figured I'll wait until they report it. LOL

Me too, not my cup of tea.

imo

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 04:09 PM

I know. What are they waiting to see? Someone walk out carrying a box of files? Big deal. :smile:

I am with you flipflop.......just seems like such boring work and who would want to sit there gazing at a door for hours just to see them carry out medical records?

I guess TMZ knows their ardent fans though.

imo

frances1

07-14-2009, 04:14 PM

Rowe's Lawyer -- Debbie Doesn't Want MJ's Money

http://www.tmz.com/

Per CNN right now: DR is denying any deal with Katherine Jackson

She will not give up her parental rights for this children. Her attorney is expected in court.

Okay, Music Fan, I thought she did relinquish her parental rights several years ago. Am I missing something?

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 04:17 PM

Pay no mind. I don't. Can never learn enough. imo

thanks for the advise:tonguewag:

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 04:17 PM

Neither of them were on the list.

http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/michael-jackson-memorial-list-guests-invited-take-part

Why would they be on any list if they couldnt come?:confused:

imo

Nic99

07-14-2009, 04:17 PM

Well in that case you certainly have NO right to say what I have posted or not posted if you have me on ignore especially when you are totally INCORRRECT. You outed yourself. :rolleyes:

Wouldn't be the first time in my experience unfortunately:thumbdown:

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 04:19 PM

Okay, Music Fan, I thought she did relinquish her parental rights several years ago. Am I missing something?

she thought so but due to a technicality it did not happen a judge overturned it even though she said she wanted to give up all rights

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 04:21 PM

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1615719/20090713/jackson_michael.jhtml

Exclusive: Debbie Rowe In Her Own WordsRead MTV News' complete interview with Michael Jackson's ex-wife, mother of Paris and Prince.

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 04:25 PM

Ok, no more help for you. You get your truthful info from the Sun, uk...LOL :tonguewag:

lol truthful I wont hold my breathe on that one..:wink:

Nic99

07-14-2009, 04:25 PM

Ok, no more help for you. You get your truthful info from the Sun, uk...LOL :tonguewag:

Crikey, the Sun, wouldn't give it the time of day, or were you being sarcastic? Don't know what the tabloids are in the US, but the Sun is definitely a no go area over here imo

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 04:30 PM

Very well I might add. Jennifer Hudson didn't know him either. The little boy from the UK was called in by the family. Not because of MJ at all.

Iggy is best. It works for me. imo

I thought he said on LKL that he was going to do a song with him during the tour..so they never met..Jennifer did not know him either? she risk her doctors orders of not flying for someone who she did not know:confused:

lilismom

07-14-2009, 04:30 PM

she thought so but due to a technicality it did not happen a judge overturned it even though she said she wanted to give up all rights

So, she still has her parental rights in tact? Kids she sold and MJ paid millions for? Whether she was paid the entire amount or not, she still was paid some million(s) correct? What do we think she's gonna say in court then? Your Honor, I know what I said back then but: Michael forced me into it? I was blinded by the money? I was out of my head? I didn't really mean it? And now that Michael's gone: I don't want Joe Jackson around Michael's kids? I am the better parent? I don't care what Michael's Will says?

I'm confused as to what her legal standing to the two older children is. I read a few pages back that she supposedly said if they needed a liver, etc. that she would be there for them. Is she their biological mother? If not, how would her liver help them? Could this open the door for any surrogate mother (if in fact that is what she is) to claim the children they gave birth to as their own even if they were paid? Someone said she wasn't paid the full amount. So now she's "repoing" the kids? Is this about Joe Jackson or is it really about the money?

Confused.

IMO,
Lilismom

frances1

07-14-2009, 04:39 PM

All the info is a few pages back. Her rights were reinstated.

Okay, Music Fan, I read back and now understand. My question, though, is has it ever even been proven that DR is the biological mother of the older two, and not just a surrogate? And even if she is, if she were to ask for custody now, what a thorny issue that would be for the court, considering the statements she has made in the past about not wanting to be a 'mother'.

Nic99

07-14-2009, 04:42 PM

Yes and at her convenience. LOL

You got it:rolleyes:

lilismom

07-14-2009, 04:44 PM

Okay, Music Fan, I read back and now understand. My question, though, is has it ever even been proven that DR is the biological mother of the older two, and not just a surrogate? And even if she is, if she were to ask for custody now, what a thorny issue that would be for the court, considering the statements she has made in the past about not wanting to be a 'mother'.

My question above exactly. Is she legally their mother? Is she biologically their mother? She gave birth to them within a marriage right? Does that make her legally their mother?

IMO,
Lilismom

VC2

07-14-2009, 04:46 PM

lilismom

07-14-2009, 04:47 PM

I believe he was going to be invited to sing by Jackson. I don't believe he had met him before. Maybe I missed that.

Jennifer lives out there most of the time. She is going to have her baby out there I think. She didn't know him. While she was an up and coming star which is fairly recently. Where was MJ? he wasn't in the country. He was gone most of the time after the trial.

He didn't go out when he came back to LA. How would they have met?
imo

Not for nuttin but...I would have gone to sing for MJ too if asked and I certainly didn't know him. What's the diff?

IMO,
Lilismom

lilismom

07-14-2009, 04:48 PM

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 04:49 PM

Gosh this is about as exciting as watching paint dry. How can someone just sit there watching a door for hours on end?

LOL Crazy!

lol..I think so..well DR had to call the cops yesterday guess they are staking her place out also..UM is it against the law to take a picture there is no way she will ever be able to raise those kids she hates the cameras and media..

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=23e6dc2f-8527-47ef-a00e-d1f44d372d6e:laugh:

lilismom

07-14-2009, 04:54 PM

Her eggs and she carried them. Sperm from the mystery man.

Hmm. I don't know if I believe that. While those kids look nothing like him, they look nothing like her either. Nothing. Perhaps if we saw her baby pictures?

It all means nothing if they are "legally" hers I guess.

We shall see. In the meantime, everyone have a fantastic evening!

IMO,
Lilismom

Nic99

07-14-2009, 04:55 PM

Hmm. I don't know if I believe that. While those kids look nothing like him, they look nothing like her either. Nothing. Perhaps if we saw her baby pictures?

It all means nothing if they are "legally" hers I guess.

We shall see. In the meantime, everyone have a fantastic evening!

IMO,
Lilismom

Crikey, who knows imo, you have a lovely evening too from the UK:thumbsup:

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 05:01 PM

So, she still has her parental rights in tact? Kids she sold and MJ paid millions for? Whether she was paid the entire amount or not, she still was paid some million(s) correct? What do we think she's gonna say in court then? Your Honor, I know what I said back then but: Michael forced me into it? I was blinded by the money? I was out of my head? I didn't really mean it? And now that Michael's gone: I don't want Joe Jackson around Michael's kids? I am the better parent? I don't care what Michael's Will says?

I'm confused as to what her legal standing to the two older children is. I read a few pages back that she supposedly said if they needed a liver, etc. that she would be there for them. Is she their biological mother? If not, how would her liver help them? Could this open the door for any surrogate mother (if in fact that is what she is) to claim the children they gave birth to as their own even if they were paid? Someone said she wasn't paid the full amount. So now she's "repoing" the kids? Is this about Joe Jackson or is it really about the money?

Confused.

IMO,
Lilismom

here ya go her lawyer had to ask her these questions to make sure she answered them...public record doc in the link..

http://site2.mjeol.com/mj-related/daming-docs-from-debbie-rowe-parental-rights-termination-hearing.html

Q. When is the last time you saw the children?
A. I think it was either August or October of last year when I gave up my visitation rights.

Q. Have you communicated with either of the children --
A. No.

Q. -- Over the past year?
A. Not at all.

Q. Do you wish to communicate with the children?
A. No.

Q. Do you ever have the desire to call the children over the telephone?
A. No.

Q. Do you have a desire to send any cards or letters to the children?
A. No.

Q. Do you want the court to terminate your parental right?
A. Yes

Q. Okay.
A. Because --

Q. That was my next question. Why?
A. Because Michael is a wonderful man, first of all, a brilliant father. And it's the best -- as their mother, it is the best interest for the children. I don't know if Judge Lachs understands this. But when I was seeing them every 45 days, it felt like an intrusion on their life and they're going to have enough intrusions as it is. I don't want to be part of it.

I'm absolutely around if ever Michael needs me, if the children need me for a liver, kidney, a hello, whatever, I will always be around for him. These are his children. I had the children for him. They wouldn't be on this planet if it wasn't for my love of him. I did it for him to become a father. Not for me to become a mother. You earn the title parent. I have done absolutely nothing to earn that title.

Q. How long have you thought about your decision?

A. Since -- I've thought about it for a year. The reason I didn't do it a year ago, everybody would have gone "UH", "Uh", "Uh", GASP, GASP, GASP. "Oh my God, have you thought this out?" So just so everybody understands, I've thought about this a lot. And this is -- this is for what's the best for the kids.

The only way Rowe has a foot in the door today is because of a technicality; a procedure not correctly followed when executing the termination of her rights caused the termination to be invalid. But there was no doubt she sought to terminate her parental rights and no doubt she appeared not to want any deep connection to Prince and Paris

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 05:07 PM

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 05:20 PM

off to a ballgame have a great evening everyone,..play nice..:seeya:

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 05:26 PM

Did Macaulay Culkin, Wade Robson, that kid...Jimmy S...something...can't recall his name but MJ bought him allegedly for a check and a Rolls Royce....show up to the memorial???

Any of them issue a statement?

If so, I missed it

I am not sure half the people there I did not see until after it was over..the family had a ton of tickets so there must have been alot there more than we saw..I never saw Barbra Walters until after or Nicole Richie and MJ was her Godfather, The Hiltons..so we have no clue who was in all those VIP chairs..

RootBeer

07-14-2009, 05:47 PM

Quick Vote
Do you agree with LaToya that Michael was murdered?
Yes 64% 2862
No 36% 1617
Total Votes: 4479

This is not a scientific poll

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/

bkwits

07-14-2009, 06:19 PM

IMO $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
He paid her a lump sum and then was to pay her so much for 5 years he bought her a home she no longer has..then there was a second pay off of 265,000 and paid her bills..I posted this earlier still have to go through the docs for the second amount he gave her...she got paid plenty for a gift she did not have them to be a mother she has made that clear to all of AMERICA

But, she was married to a Mega superstar for 3 years. He was worth 100s of millions at the time. She actually got a very puny property settlement compared to others who have been married to superstars and had children with them. Think of Madonna's husband and so many others.

imo

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 06:28 PM

We've learned the FDA and CDC have issued a warning over certain batches of Propofol -- the drug found in Michael Jackson's home on day he died and the drug that may have killed him.

As far as we know the investigation is not related to Jackson, but certain lots from a pharmaceutical company in Irvine, Calif. have proven to be "tainted" and the company has issued a voluntary recall.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/14/govt-issues-warning-over-propofol/

Now that certainly is uncanny timing.

imo

ish

07-14-2009, 06:57 PM

I am not sure half the people there I did not see until after it was over..the family had a ton of tickets so there must have been alot there more than we saw..I never saw Barbra Walters until after or Nicole Richie and MJ was her Godfather, The Hiltons..so we have no clue who was in all those VIP chairs..

I saw the whole Kardashian crew, (Kris, Kourtney, Kim, and Khloe) was there. They never miss a photo opportunity, at least they wore black. They all posed for the camera with their best "do me" face. Maybe they didn't realize it was a memorial.
I was surprised that a lot of BIG names were a no show. I suspect MJ may have had a falling out or had distanced himself with many of his old friends. As time goes by a lot more people I think will reveal the not so nice underbelly of what MJ's life became. Once the toxicology report is released, they will feel more comfortable talking, cause the facts will be out there, not just speculation and rumor. IMO

Ionmhainn

07-14-2009, 06:59 PM

Interesting! I wonder what effect this will have if the Propofol turns out to be from the tainted batch? It doesn't let the Dr. off the hook as to using the drug inappropriately, but if it was tainted, what then?

ish

07-14-2009, 07:09 PM

Plenty of celebreties manage to raise their children out of the media spot light.

It's easier to raise them out of the media attention when they aren't wearing "masks", "scarves and other face coverings". Common sense tells me that bringing your kids out in public with such things covering their faces, is sure to attract attention. My guess is that was MJ's intent all along, to get attention. He created this bizarre, freakish image and indeed encouraged it with his planting of articles in the tabloids about buying the Elephant Man's remains and sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber (or some equally weird thing). And as far as Debbie Rowe "selling" her children, he was the one purchasing them so it says as much about him as it does her. One can't sell what no one will buy. If he gave her 8 million, he got off cheap, a divorce settlement would have cost him more, look at Paul Mc cartney.

Ionmhainn

07-14-2009, 07:18 PM

I really in truly doubt there was any tainting..as given the descriptions of chils, coldness, signs of infection..are listed very clearly in side effects to expect if "Inproper Handling" in administrations..aka, poor asceptic techniques and poor storage etc...and that would go to the administrator of the drug, and the people "Storing" the drug ..This is just my experience with drugs like this and others..aka "Biologics"..so very familiar with protocols for handling, administering, and documenting drugs used..( recording all Lot #'s and Exp. Date..)..It sounds complicated..but it isnt..cause it is done rountinely..and those that handle it know how to do it!!

Of course, if someone is using this drug..and wishing to hide or conceal the use of that drug..thats another story.???Humming again??:laugh:

LMS

You're right, it sounds complicated, lol! I was just wondering if that could possibly give the Dr. "an out." Probably not, then. Manufacturer's CYA, maybe?

If you know, is it actually illegal to prescribe this drug outwith a hospital setting? TIA

Sunny

07-14-2009, 07:20 PM

on the JVM show who is that guy wearing the hat, apparently with no manners...you don't wear a hat in the house. LOL

ish

07-14-2009, 07:26 PM

IMO Many pick and chose what they want to believe coming from Latoya's lips.

The problem is when a Jackson is talking, you can NEVER know if it's the truth. They ALL LIE, ALL the time. IMO

Personally, don't care for proven liars and tend not to believe anything they say.

I find it amusing that so many are believing every word that falls from La Toyas lips. Look back, she has told countless stories and recanted them, IMO she would have a hard time just reading a coroners report let alone interpereting it. She is out there selling her remarks and interviews to whoever will pay her, just as Joe Jackson is doing. Spinning a vast conspiracy theory insures interest in this story and future income for her, independent from the support I'm sure she gets from the Jackson family trust. They all have depended on Michael to support them. Except perhaps Janet and I'm sure they drain whatever they can from her.

ish

07-14-2009, 07:29 PM

on the JVM show who is that guy wearing the hat, apparently with no manners...you don't wear a hat in the house. LOL

he's a Jackson insider.....trying to maintain the wholesome image of MJ and the family. IMO

ish

07-14-2009, 07:40 PM

Couldn't agree more. When ya live your life like a circus freak....ya shouldn't be shocked & whine when people talk about it. IMO

I wish more celebrities got this message and stopped complaining.

lunchlady

07-14-2009, 07:55 PM

Unperson1984

07-14-2009, 08:02 PM

on the JVM show who is that guy wearing the hat, apparently with no manners...you don't wear a hat in the house. LOL

Perhaps he is Jewish...:shrug:

ish

07-14-2009, 08:07 PM

Michael would have doctor-shopped until he found a doctor to give him what he wanted. He still had cash flow and fame and even MDs are susceptible to those things.

A wiser doctor would pass on the opportunity to be Jackson's or Presley's personal physician (drug supplier). Wonder what Jackson paid Murray for his ministrations.

The more desperate Jackson got, the higher the price he was willing to pay and the less he cared about the doctors credentials. There is always someone out there to supply you if you have enough $$ to make taking the risk worth it for them. If it wasn't Doctor Murray, it would be someone else. If he didn't die that night, mostly likely he would have someday in the not too distant future. The idea of putting yourself under anesthesia to "sleep" tells me that MJ was way, way out there, that is just a nutty idea. If that was his mindset then I question just what kind of a parent he was.

Ionmhainn

07-14-2009, 08:07 PM

It is only my opinion..and please remember..I am Canadian and go by "My" rules of the road..that this drug is not a rountine prescription drug..in that it is not dispensed by pharmacy's that you and I go to..it is ordered by specific units..hospitals, and outpatient surgical units and are sponsored by physicians who are affirming it will be untilized according to the parameters set out by the "Drug Company"...It is a part of aneastheasia..so only those performing surgeries and have appropriate personel and equipement need order....Thus my upset...Diprivan should never have been in MJ's home!..and Dr. Murray is in deep do..do seemingly he was the one administraing this drug minus staff, and proper supportive equipement..

All I can..MJ would not have died if this drug was given according to all the guidelines..and it is what I have heard so far..that I think Dr. Murray stepped over the line..and is culpible..even if MJ demanded it..He should have taken more care, and known the risks..thus "Criminally Negligent Homicide"

LOL, I dont carry "Liability Insurance" for nothing..We "Healthcare givers" are always at risk..when administering treatments.and yep..can be charged..even tho we were only doing our job...So IMO Dr. Murray went way beyond "Doing his job"!!

LMS

Sorry....loooong phone call! Thanks for your reply. I guess I didn't word my question very well, (re "prescribing") but you answered it anyway! Thanks!

who_is_it

07-14-2009, 08:17 PM

Michael would have doctor-shopped until he found a doctor to give him what he wanted. He still had cash flow and fame and even MDs are susceptible to those things.

A wiser doctor would pass on the opportunity to be Jackson's or Presley's personal physician (drug supplier). Wonder what Jackson paid Murray for his ministrations.

I agree Michael would have doctor-shopped until any doc would have given him the drugs he wanted.

IF Dr. Murray administered the drug (what is likely) I don't think it was all about money. I believe he couldn't say "no" because he's a weak character and was a long term friend* of MJ.

* (Yes, I know, true friendship would have been bla bla bla... )

who_is_it

07-14-2009, 08:19 PM

That guy lost the right to even call himself a doctor! He is no different that a drug dealer selling crack on a street corner IMO and MJ was no different than any other drug addict.

I thought the concert producers were footing the doctors bill???

They paid for the bills but actually didn't want to pay for a personal doctor.

Randy Phillips, AEG, that the doc was NOT his choice.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/video/Michael-Jackson-Exclusive-AEG-Chief-Randy-Phillips-Talks-To-Sky-About-Singers-Rehearsal-Day-Before-He-Died/Video/200906415325813?lpos=video_Second_UK_News_Feature_ Teaser_Region_0&lid=VIDEO_15325813_Michael_Jackson_Exclusive%3A_AE G_Chief_Randy_Phillips_Talks_To_Sky_About_Singers_ Rehearsal_Day_Before_He_Died

who_is_it

07-14-2009, 08:23 PM

The more desperate Jackson got, the higher the price he was willing to pay and the less he cared about the doctors credentials. There is always someone out there to supply you if you have enough $$ to make taking the risk worth it for them. If it wasn't Doctor Murray, it would be someone else. If he didn't die that night, mostly likely he would have someday in the not too distant future. The idea of putting yourself under anesthesia to "sleep" tells me that MJ was way, way out there, that is just a nutty idea. If that was his mindset then I question just what kind of a parent he was.

Imo that's not a mindset. He HAD to sleep because of the exhausting rehearsals and the upcoming tour, was under psychic stress... and had an addiction problem over years. One can't blame an addict imo, the unavoidable downward spiral is part of the disease.

who_is_it

07-14-2009, 08:24 PM

I thought he wasn't a long time friend and only recently signed on in the months prior?

As far as I know he treated him for some months, was his full time doc 11 days... but they knew each other for some years.

ish

07-14-2009, 08:33 PM

That guy lost the right to even call himself a doctor! He is no different that a drug dealer selling crack on a street corner IMO and MJ was no different than any other drug addict.

I thought the concert producers were footing the doctors bill???

They cleared that one up right away, LOL No way was that going on their heads. MJ was paying, he even had a contract with the Dr. Of course, MJ never signed it, so let's see how that all works out.

ish

07-14-2009, 08:41 PM

Imo that's not a mindset. He HAD to sleep because of the exhausting rehearsals and the upcoming tour, was under psychic stress... and had an addiction problem over years. One can't blame an addict imo, the unavoidable downward spiral is part of the disease.

I'm sorry I have to disagree here, MJ was a veteran performer, he knew full well the rigors of touring and should have made sure he had sufficient time to plan and prepare. If HIS addiction was getting in the way it was his responsibility to get himself cleaned up. Having yourself put under anesthesia is not acceptable. IMO too much grace is being given to MJ because of his fame. IF this were any other entertainer or celebrity, they would be held to a much higher standard.

Rayosunshine

07-14-2009, 08:42 PM

ish

07-14-2009, 08:44 PM

and I bet he never paid the man either! LOL

His usual modus operandi!! He has a string of failure to pay lawsuits against him. I wonder if Dr KLein has been paid over the years. And how much.

aubrey04

07-14-2009, 08:45 PM

Michael would have doctor-shopped until he found a doctor to give him what he wanted. He still had cash flow and fame and even MDs are susceptible to those things.

A wiser doctor would pass on the opportunity to be Jackson's or Presley's personal physician (drug supplier). Wonder what Jackson paid Murray for his ministrations.

I bet a lot of the doctors MJ went to never knew about the other meds he had been prescribed, especially since Michael was using aliases to get the medications.

What a circus this has turned into. I have read so much about MJ since he died and my opinion of him is very poor. He was no idol like so many are trying to tout him.

I just hope the children end up in a more stable environment than they were living in. I wonder how much of this they witnessed.

imo

ish

07-14-2009, 08:47 PM

who_is_it

07-14-2009, 08:47 PM

I think in this case we can blame the addict for much. He had the money and the opportunity to seek out the very best treatment money could buy....or write an IOU for.

IMO

Some addicts have sensitive souls and are too vulnerable to bear the coldheated and hurtful incidents which occurred to them in their lives. I believe MJ was an addict of this sort. Considering all the disappointment and mockery he had to go through I can empathize why he wanted to escape into a state of numbing.

I would never endorse his addiction but I feel compassion.

aubrey04

07-14-2009, 08:51 PM

His usual modus operandi!! He has a string of failure to pay lawsuits against him. I wonder if Dr KLein has been paid over the years. And how much.

I bet that is the one bill he would pay to keep his RX's filled. I am sure doctor shopping can be very draining, especially when you're zonked out.

Ok...so we figured out the difference between MJ's doctors and common street drug dealers. The dealers get the money up front!

IMO

Good question!

Good point. :sneaky:

bkwits

07-14-2009, 08:53 PM

Just been lurk'n.. but I was downstairs and turned NG on, she showed a very close up of DR. Debbie's skin is totally diff. than the kids, TOTALLY! Look, face, skin complexion, ie freckles, no tan white skin. I see no resemblance. JMO

I also know some kids can be 1 parent dominate in looks. She needs a DNA test, I don't trust her. Prince M1 and Paris have no physical charecteristcs(sp) of her IMO.

I guess it is in the eyes of the beholder. IMO Paris looks very much like Debbie---the shape of her face, her chin, her nose, especially her eyes.

Prince M, also resembles her in the shape of his face.

IMO, Debbie is almost certainly the bio mom.

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 08:55 PM

I guess it is in the eyes of the beholder. IMO Paris looks very much like Debbie---the shape of her face, her chin, her nose, especially her eyes.

Prince M, also resembles her in the shape of his face.

IMO, Debbie is almost certainly the bio mom.

I guess it is. I see no features of DR in either of the two children.

imo

bkwits

07-14-2009, 09:00 PM

No one else has come forward and she birthed them...they're hers.

I don't know what the heck Debbie Rowe did to her skin....but it looks awful! Wonder if Dr. Klein graduated at the bottom of his class? Dematologist???? She worked there?

.......shiver.....:scared:

I believe she said she has allergies (in the interview posted upthread). I have allergies to some weeds and and plants and my arms, neck, chin and even my scalp is broken out. My face is not too bad. I only work out in my yard an hour or so a day. She is prob outside all day. Im not saying it IS allergies. Im just saying it is possible.

IMO

GentleBreeze

07-14-2009, 09:08 PM

I'm humming here..I have a "gut" feeling, that the drug company are trying to trace those missing vials..offering turning in that lot and Exp. date..in order to track that whole stock..believe I document stuff like that daily..so that issues can eventually be tracked down to which LOT is possibly effected..however..I get a vibe they are trying to find out for "other" reasons....like who got this LOT..and the documentation as to where it was used..etc..Call me sherlock..I get my "Inquiring Mind" going ..especially in a case like this one...:huh::scared:

LMS

Hi there, Lynda. Sorry you are so tired from working hard today.

I really am not sure I believe that they only keep up with the drug by lot numbers only. That just makes no sense to me since it is a controlled substance. There has got to be another code on each vile showing where it went individually in case the full lot was not sold to one doctor, don't you think? How many is in a lot if you know?

So since MJ wasn't an anesthesiologist he would have to have a doctor in that knew how to administer it? And the doctor would have to get the controlled substance from another doctor that uses it either in their office or from a hospital? Was Murray affliated with any hospitals in CA?

tia

Somehow more and more I see both Klein and Murray in very big trouble.

imo

vonna

07-14-2009, 09:24 PM

The more desperate Jackson got, the higher the price he was willing to pay and the less he cared about the doctors credentials. There is always someone out there to supply you if you have enough $$ to make taking the risk worth it for them. If it wasn't Doctor Murray, it would be someone else. If he didn't die that night, mostly likely he would have someday in the not too distant future. The idea of putting yourself under anesthesia to "sleep" tells me that MJ was way, way out there, that is just a nutty idea. If that was his mindset then I question just what kind of a parent he was.

I see it as a desire or need for instant gratification.

CANDYKISSES

07-14-2009, 09:25 PM

Very well I might add. Jennifer Hudson didn't know him either. The little boy from the UK was called in by the family. Not because of MJ at all.

Iggy is best. It works for me. imo

I hope by now you have long since provided a LINK and a CREDIBLE ONE AT THAT for the above. TIA. :rolleyes:

Unperson1984

07-14-2009, 09:27 PM

Paul Gorhanson, a man who Radar Online reports is claiming to be the former live-in masseuse and former lover of Dr. Arnold Klein, is speaking out about the ways that the dermatologist allegedly helped get him medication.

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/07/76391/

Looking at Klein's ear and Paris' ear I wonder how far fetched him being the bio-Dad really is?

VC2

07-14-2009, 09:29 PM

That drug company knows exactly to whom that lot was distributed to. They would have to, since it is controlled (at least i am sure it is a controlled substance).

Actually it is not a controlled substance, it just cant be sold by prescription and is only available in hospital pharmacies or surgical clinics (yes outpatient ones or like klein doing surgery in his office)

They have mentioned it at least twice tonight that it is not a controlled substance which makes sense since it doesn't get you "high" and is unavailable completely to the general public, many doctors and outside a clinical setting.

jmo but it was on two different shows with two different doctors.

CANDYKISSES

07-14-2009, 09:43 PM

DR is the bio mother of the older two. That was not in question. The only question was who was the daddy. That we know is not MJ. Blanket is from an unknown surrogate who's daddy is not known. It sure isn't MJ once again.

My take on her and this whole baby mess. MJ had the money and power to rid of her. I think Rowe says a lot of things she doesn't really mean. Now that MJ can't control her, I hope she fights at least to keep that extra creepy Joe Jackson away from them.

imo

Debbie Rowe is known to be the legal mother, just like Michael Jackson is/was the legal father because they were married when the first two children were born and the law recognizes it that way. CHILDREN BORN INTO THE MARRIAGE are presumed to be children of the married couple period IMO.

As to whether she is the BIOLOGICAL MOTHER, I would like to see your link to that proof as I have never seen such a document. TIA.

LINKS requested for Debbie Rowe being the BIOLOGICAL MOTHER....and the young boy from England being asked for by the Jackson family as well as Jennifer Hudson not knowing Michael. Thanks again. :rolleyes:

CANDYKISSES

07-14-2009, 09:45 PM

OH..MAN..Athena..nothing will surprise me anymore..I really dont want to even entertain such stuff..right now:blushing:

LMS

Don't be skeered Lynda, I'll hold your hand whilst they unleash the truth on some of the less than savory characters in this tragedy. :unsure:
JMO

CANDYKISSES

07-14-2009, 10:03 PM

Oh Thankyou Candy kisses..I am soooo..disallusioned right now with the medical eithics..I am reading about..disgust doesnt even touch how i feel...I really do need to be held right now..my whole career is/was based on doing the right thing..and the best you can..It has always helped me deal with failures to save someone..or to help someone..but never have I ever thought I would see such blatant stuff...

ty guys..I really needed to vent that...My whole life has revolved around helping and making a difference in peoples lives..so to see this really hurts my heart...

LMS

I find it equally as disturbing Lynda and especially when I think of the forever those children will have in reading all the presumed true TRASH IMO.

Children don't ask to be born, we choose to bring them into this world and I can't imagine all the ethics violations that we are hearing about and the forever effects that will be left with the CHILDREN as a RESULT.

I have never understood why education and licensing are required to participate in certain sports like hunting and fishing, yet creating precious innocent children require nothing other than a fleeting moment at times. :crying:

I mourn for all the children have lost and all they are left with at the same time. :wub:

What is the RIGHT THING???? ALL JMO.

BorderCollieMom

07-14-2009, 10:03 PM

Just an FYI:

Prime Time ABC 10PM EST - Inside the Jackson Home

Katherine Jackson speaks out

AC360 -- will talk about documents removed from Dr. Klein's office today - also on 10PM EST -- will TIVO AC360

Joe also speaking out. Looks to have interesting footage at the Jackson Compound.

LordMisRule

07-14-2009, 10:04 PM

I hope by now you have long since provided a LINK and a CREDIBLE ONE AT THAT for the above. TIA. :rolleyes:

Does US Magazine count?

http://www.usmagazine.com/news/michael-jacksons-memorial-speakers-hardly-knew-the-singer-200997

Lists what relationships the speakers at Jackson's memorial had with him.

Mamie

07-14-2009, 10:11 PM

Looking at Klein's ear and Paris' ear I wonder how far fetched him being the bio-Dad really is?

I was just looking for a place to plant my comment about this and.....I found just the spot!

I wonder since it seems he's withholding things, partial files and probably hasn't told the whole truth, just how much we can believe him when he says he's not the bio father. I thought it was awfully strange since he appears to be successful why would he donate his sperm. He has children of his own, right? JMO

bkwits

07-14-2009, 10:14 PM

Joe Jackson is on Primtime ABC, trying to rehabilitate his image. :laugh:

Says he never beat Michael...just spanked.

LordMisRule

07-14-2009, 10:16 PM

If you call a celebrity tabloid credible. Sorry couldn't resist.

The young boy was going to tour with MJ and it is in the LKL transcript posted a few pages before. We really don't know if MJ reached out to Jennifer during her tragedy. She did lose a young nephew. Only Jennifer can answer that question. Just because this author didnt see a connection doesn't mean there wasn't one. :shrug:

Okay, how about the Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/09/queen-latifah-never-met-m_n_228473.html

Mamie

07-14-2009, 10:16 PM

Just an FYI:

Prime Time ABC 10PM EST - Inside the Jackson Home

Katherine Jackson speaks out

AC360 -- will talk about documents removed from Dr. Klein's office today - also on 10PM EST -- will TIVO AC360

When are these two programs on? I looked tonight but I don't see any Prime Time scheduled. And what is AC360? TIA

Mamie

07-14-2009, 10:21 PM

Cannot speak for Dr. Klein but many doctors are know to donate their sperm to a sperm bank just like some of us donate blood. JMO

Oh really!! I didn't know that! Well, I guess you can tell that, huh:confused: Why on earth would they want to do that? I know why people donate blood but there's never been a shortage on sperm, has there?

Mamie

07-14-2009, 10:24 PM

I'm watching Prime Time now -- maybe different time zone -- 10PM EST (I'm in NY)

AC = Anderson Cooper / CNN

Yes, when you said 10 eastern, I looked at 7 my time and couldn't find it but it's on at 10 Pacific too, so I'm Tivo-ing it. I'm not used to watching Anderson Cooper, except by accident---don't know why----so thanks for straightening me out on that one.

CANDYKISSES

07-14-2009, 10:25 PM

If you call a celebrity tabloid credible. Sorry couldn't resist.

The young boy was going to tour with MJ and it is in the LKL transcript posted a few pages before. We really don't know if MJ reached out to Jennifer during her tragedy. She did lose a young nephew. Only Jennifer can answer that question. Just because this author didnt see a connection doesn't mean there wasn't one. :shrug:

:thumbsup:THANK YOU VERY MUCH AGAIN ATHENA!

I am appalled at some of the cheap shots the tabloids have taken, but I guess I shouldn't be given their lack of credibility these days. JMO.:thumbdown:

CANDYKISSES

07-14-2009, 10:29 PM

Okay, how about the Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/09/queen-latifah-never-met-m_n_228473.html

OMG, their link is to the other CELEBRITY TABLOID you linked first. Unbelievable how some people just take it and run. I heard the man who brought Shaheen talk about the connection and Athena put a transcript of LKL up to confirm that part. I will wait to see Jennifer Hudson myself since I know HUFFington was actually using the other link. :thumbdown:

JMO

CANDYKISSES

07-14-2009, 10:31 PM

Joe Jackson is on Primtime ABC, trying to rehabilitate his image. :laugh:

Says he never beat Michael...just spanked.

He can work on that image until the cows come home, but I highly doubt anyone takes him seriously anymore. But that is JMO. :wink:

BorderCollieMom

07-14-2009, 10:33 PM

BorderCollieMom

07-14-2009, 10:34 PM

I don't think there is anyone saying that MJ has no responsibility in this. Read the end of last night's thread. Many of us have had family members affected by this and the addict CANNOT stop on his/her own and to intervene is extremely difficult. No different than any substance abuser whether it be smoking, alcohol, etc.
Been there done that - hard to convince someone that has been personally affected because of their own loved ones. As a result I have compassion for MJ -- just too bad he didn't have anyone around him that cared more about him than the $ JMO

Great Post !!!!

CANDYKISSES

07-14-2009, 10:36 PM

That's why I pointed out the time zone -- I don't know anything but EST and sometimes I forget what time zone I'm in :laugh: j/k

Shucks - I thought KJ was going to speak -- it seems to be all Joe :(

Hold up Athena....Nursie is in the house too. I just know you are not surprised by Joe leading the charge on this one, right????

VIDEO of KJ grandparenting the grands.......:unsure: Goodness, I am aghast at some of this. Good night peeps. RIP Michael, when you get to your final resting place anyway.
jmo

Mamie

07-14-2009, 10:37 PM

Ask your doctor the next time you visit. I was definitely told that it is easier for doctors to donate because there is a stringent screening process. JMHO

LOL----all my doctors are women, these days. Used to male doctors but for some reason, my GP is female and the two specialists I go to are also female. (Maybe that's why I don't get embarrassed when my legs aren't shaved.:shrug:)

Unperson1984

07-14-2009, 10:53 PM

I was just looking for a place to plant my comment about this and.....I found just the spot!

I wonder since it seems he's withholding things, partial files and probably hasn't told the whole truth, just how much we can believe him when he says he's not the bio father. I thought it was awfully strange since he appears to be successful why would he donate his sperm. He has children of his own, right? JMO

Who knows, according to one story he's gay.

Probably 2/3 of what we've heard is false.

SusiePMcD

07-14-2009, 10:59 PM

I see it as a desire or need for instant gratification.

Hi Vonna!

I agree with you. (and many others here tonight)

FallenAngel♥

07-14-2009, 11:13 PM

did anyone watch Family Secrets tonight?

I didn't know Katherine was already raising FIVE of her grandchildren.
I wonder who's children she's raising........
Does anyone know?

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 11:16 PM

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1616237/20090714/jackson_michael.jhtml

Jul 14 2009 3:20 PM EDT
No Custody Deal Between Debbie Rowe And Jackson Family, Lawyers Say

"Ms. Rowe has not and will not give up her parental rights. No determination has been reached concerning custody or visitation. And Ms. Rowe has not accepted and will not accept any additional financial consideration beyond the spousal support she and Michael personally agreed to several years ago."

ScoobyDoo

07-14-2009, 11:21 PM

Looking at Klein's ear and Paris' ear I wonder how far fetched him being the bio-Dad really is?

Why would Michael Jackson, if he didn't use his own sperm chose Dr. Klein's. The guy is a middle aged balding, overweight guy. Why wouldnt he pick someone better looking. If the kids look like anyone, I think its Miko Brando.

imo...of course.

tinkerbell

07-14-2009, 11:24 PM

Has anyone seen or read this report from ABC news?

http://abcnews.go.com/

FallenAngel♥

07-14-2009, 11:28 PM

Why would Michael Jackson, if he didn't use his own sperm chose Dr. Klein's. The guy is a middle aged balding, overweight guy. Why wouldnt he pick someone better looking. If the kids look like anyone, I think its Miko Brando.

imo...of course.
what did Dr Klein look like 12 years ago?

ScoobyDoo

07-14-2009, 11:31 PM

what did Dr Klein look like 12 years ago?

Not as good as Miko did 12 years ago.

imo...of course.

FallenAngel♥

07-14-2009, 11:34 PM

Not as good as Miko did 12 years ago.

imo...of course.

true...i wonder why he didn't pick Miko.
did you watch the show tonight on ABC?

tinkerbell

07-14-2009, 11:40 PM

I didn't watch the ABC report; but I posted a link up thread.

I have some questions about the photographs.

FallenAngel♥

07-14-2009, 11:48 PM

I didn't watch the ABC report; but I posted a link up thread.

I have some questions about the photographs.

what you want to know about the photos? they were on the show with a dr talking about them.

tinkerbell

07-14-2009, 11:52 PM

I just noticed that the far right photo shows MJ without the white backdrop and with black shoes/socks; the photos beginning at the left, show MJ with white socks and white backdrop.

Perhaps they weren't taken at the same time?

moo

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 12:08 AM

Hi Lynda -- Missed ya today :)

I agree with you unless she knows something we don't but I wouldn't vote either because there was not a choice like you said for negligence. Not familiar with CA law - Mark Geragos did say he could be charged with Murder 2 because of the nature of the diprivan drug as it goes beyond negligence but that is still not the same as what LaToya is eluding to. JMO

ITA at this time I will not vote since it is a very limited poll..I do see charges just not sure it was Foul play and he was murdered on purpose to make money off of him...I am still in shock was it you that told me Titos wife had passed away? I did not know it was murder..omg how horrible..this family has been through alot and many of the kids have had to grow up with out a parent..Titos kids sing so good I just listened to the song they sung with MJ..amazing singers...IMO

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 12:11 AM

true...i wonder why he didn't pick Miko.
did you watch the show tonight on ABC?

which one Fallen I watched the one with Joe and then nightline..

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 12:13 AM

I didn't watch the ABC report; but I posted a link up thread.

I have some questions about the photographs.

which pics tinker?..if I can help just let me know..not that I can but will try:smile:

tinkerbell

07-15-2009, 12:19 AM

which pics tinker?..if I can help just let me know..not that I can but will try:smile:

Thanks aproudmom, here's my question:

I just noticed that the far right photo shows MJ without the white backdrop and with black shoes/socks; the photos beginning at the left, show MJ with white socks and white backdrop.

Perhaps they weren't taken at the same time?

And here's the link:

http://abcnews.go.com/

TIA

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 12:20 AM

Not as good as Miko did 12 years ago.

imo...of course.

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=3fe7ce84e28f91b9&q=pictures%20of%20miko%20brando%20in%20the%201990s&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bmiko%2Bbrando%2Bin%2B the%2B1990s%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4ADBF_enUS294US295 %26um%3D1

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=af1d2fad037f2f0c&q=pictures%20of%20miko%20brando%20in%20the%201990s&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bmiko%2Bbrando%2Bin%2B the%2B1990s%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4ADBF_ enUS294US295%26sa%3DN%26start%3D21%26um%3D1

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTI2ODEyODkyOF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwMzk5ODgy._V1._ CR0,0,450,450_SS90_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1446623/filmotype&usg=__ZE2-MTWMS3jN_i7bXcGjFbfdR8Q=&h=90&w=90&sz=4&hl=en&start=59&um=1&tbnid=l24XY5GYZal1PM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=78&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bmiko%2Bbrando%2Bin%2B the%2B1990s%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4ADBF_ enUS294US295%26sa%3DN%26start%3D42%26um%3D1

when did Mikos dad pass away not sure how old these are

tinkerbell

07-15-2009, 12:23 AM

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=3fe7ce84e28f91b9&q=pictures%20of%20miko%20brando%20in%20the%201990s&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bmiko%2Bbrando%2Bin%2B the%2B1990s%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4ADBF_enUS294US295 %26um%3D1

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=af1d2fad037f2f0c&q=pictures%20of%20miko%20brando%20in%20the%201990s&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bmiko%2Bbrando%2Bin%2B the%2B1990s%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4ADBF_ enUS294US295%26sa%3DN%26start%3D21%26um%3D1

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTI2ODEyODkyOF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwMzk5ODgy._V1._ CR0,0,450,450_SS90_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1446623/filmotype&usg=__ZE2-MTWMS3jN_i7bXcGjFbfdR8Q=&h=90&w=90&sz=4&hl=en&start=59&um=1&tbnid=l24XY5GYZal1PM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=78&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bmiko%2Bbrando%2Bin%2B the%2B1990s%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4ADBF_ enUS294US295%26sa%3DN%26start%3D42%26um%3D1

when did Mikos dad pass away not sure how old these are

I believe it July 1, 2004...

moo

bkwits

07-15-2009, 12:27 AM

Not as good as Miko did 12 years ago.

imo...of course.

You really think Miko is good looking? IMO, he is very overweight and it seems he has been overweight for many years.

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 12:33 AM

Have we heard his name..he treated Janet also

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/allan-metzger_303x328.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/categories/michael-jackson/page/3/&usg=__HNmDY0_XwlOh5KW5nH8TZrbBbhc=&h=328&w=303&sz=16&hl=en&start=18&um=1&tbnid=kma2DWUsz86PiM:&tbnh=118&tbnw=109&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bdr%2Bklien%2Bmichael% 2Bjacksons%2Bdoctor%2Bin%2Bthe%2B1990s%26hl%3Den%2 6rlz%3D1T4ADBF_enUS294US295%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1
Dr. Allan Metzger's Ties to Michael Jackson Scrutinized

Dr. Allan Metzger, was reprimanded by a Medical Board in September 2000 for "fraudulent medical practice based on prescriptions written for an international entertainer, using a false/fictitious name."

Dr. Metzger confirmed to TMZ that this entertainer is Janet Jackson.

The doctor has also treated Michael Jackson, gone on tour with the star on his HIStory tour in the 1990s and videotaped his wedding to Debbie Rowe.

He is a lupus specialist - Michael Jackson reportedly had the disease.

In the late 90s, Metzger wrote prescriptions for Janet Jackson using the name of her chef, Ricardo Macchi, he admits, saying the prescriptions were for diuretics.

Macchi sued Dr. Metzger over the matter but the suit was dropped.

He also wrote a prescription for a hepatitis B injection - he says he wrote it because Janet was going on tour and wanted to guard against the disease.

"I had done this for Janet for her anonymity," he said.

retiredcop

07-15-2009, 12:41 AM

Miko is repulsive. Ewwwwww

imo

http://www.cryobank.com/

I think Mr. Jackson would pick an anonymous donor from a sperm back before he would pick anyone he knew.

only my opinion

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 12:51 AM

I am so happy Nicole R. cleaned up she has really become a wonderful mother after all the addictions..to bad her Godfather could not get the help he also needed :sad:

Richie has one godmother, Nancy Davis, daughter of Marvin Davis and mother of Brandon Davis. Richie's godfathers are Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones

From a very early age Richie became involved in alcohol and substance abuse. Richie herself has openly admitted that she smoked marijuana at the age of 13, then progressed to cocaine a year later. At 19, she was injecting heroin

I do not have an eating disorder." On October 27, 2006, it was announced that Richie was seeking treatment for "an inability to put on weight," though it is not treatment for an eating disorder.

In March 2007, Richie was taken to the hospital for dehydration. On March 21 her reps announced she was diagnosed with hypoglycemia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicole_Richie

retiredcop

07-15-2009, 12:56 AM

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 01:03 AM

Thank you for the link. Just for a test, I did a search for a brown haired, blue eyed, caucasian sperm donor. Here's what came up: :ohmy:

http://www.cryobank.com/Donor-Search/Search-Results/index.cfm

link did not work for me.. brown eyes dominate in most cases..but I was born with blond hair and blue eyes and at around 3 it all changed I am a brown eyed girl..and dark hair..2 of my sisters have never had light hair or blue eyes but my 21yr old sister is blond and blue eyed..

my son had blue eyes when born and his sperm donor sorry but that is all he is has Cole black hair and blue eyes very unusual but his SS number is 666...lol..

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 01:13 AM

http://www.cryobank.com/

I think Mr. Jackson would pick an anonymous donor from a sperm back before he would pick anyone he knew.

only my opinion

I would think so..I remember him telling Martin B in that doc all he cared about was that the women was healthy and had intelligence so I really do not think he would ask someone who he knew who could turn around and blackmail him..down the road all I want to see is the kids in a stable home their blood means nothing to me MJ was and always will be their father IMO...He also wanted to adopt several children from different countries he said in that documentary

BTW if your a retired cop..I have alot of family in LE..I am very proud of them and their hard work

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 01:28 AM

MJ paid DR 5 million lump 900,000 a year for 5 years bought her a home worth millions she sold it and moved to her horse farm..

she went to try to get the kids back during the trial she did not like them being near Nation of Islam she later dropped it for a pay off
amount sketchy but could be in the millions
she spends 25 thousand a month on her horses and is on a monthly allowance fixed income

Sorry if missed something I was typing a listening to the report on TV..but it sounds pretty much like what I had read on the net..just could not find all the legal documents but guess it helps to be the media you can get your hands on anything

FallenAngel♥

07-15-2009, 01:47 AM

Kathrine is raising five of her grandchildren already.....i wonder who's children they are. and i think with MJ's three that might be a bit much for her...... :sad:

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 01:49 AM

Does US Magazine count?

http://www.usmagazine.com/news/michael-jacksons-memorial-speakers-hardly-knew-the-singer-200997

Lists what relationships the speakers at Jackson's memorial had with him.

may I ask why it is such a big deal who was or was not there..IMO this is so stupid we are talking about who spoke or did not speak why is it always something..I have never seen anything like this WHY DO WE GIVE A CRAP I DO NOT but I can put tons of links of wonderful artist who paid tribute to him after his death maybe not there at the staples center....FGS We are going to blame him for who they ask to sing or speak at his memorial this man can never get peace he is blamed for the most trivial stupid childish things I have ever seen..

all his dancers and back up singers performed wonderful wonderful for the family to do that for those kids the young boy who MJ thought was amazing and had talked about singing a song with on his tour..IMO it was perfect it was not the Golden Globe awards it was a memorial..Are we now saying no one wanted to associate themselves with MJ???why is this such a big deal? they had a time limit and it was put together in a matter of a few days..and it went great..IMO

Did Jenifer Hudson not say she grew up listening to him? and so did Usher..and we know him and Maria were long time friends..not that it is any of our business who he knew or how long he knew them or in what manner he impacted their life..

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 02:47 AM

Does US Magazine count?

http://www.usmagazine.com/news/michael-jacksons-memorial-speakers-hardly-knew-the-singer-200997

Lists what relationships the speakers at Jackson's memorial had with him.

they seemed to have got it a little wrong just so you know..maybe they need to check before they print. .so no they do not count IMO...

for the record Brooke Shields was his date at the '93 grammys. 18 years ago is '91 that was when they met at Liz Taylor's wedding. and who knows when they spoke in between

Mariah Carey covered the Jackson 5 classic "I'll Be There," which she sang at the memorial. Though she worked with Jackson on his 2001 charity single "What More Can I Give?"

US WEEKLY MADE A MISTAKE. JESSE JACKSON WAS THERE. HE DIDN"T SPEAK BUT HE WAS THERE. HE WAS ON STAGE AT THE END STANDING WITH JOE JACKSON AND AL SHARPTON SINGING THE TWO FINAL SONGS. I AM SUPRISED US WEEKLY DIDN'T KNOW THAT. A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW BARBRA WALTERS WAS THERE BUT SHE WAS..SHE WAS SEATED RIGHT BEHIND THE JACKSON FAMILY IN THE SECOND ROW. AND WHO CARES IF THE PEOPLE HAD NOT SPOKE TO MIKE IN YEARS...THEY SPENT TIME WITH HIM BEFORE AND CLEARLY CARED ENOUGH TO SPEAK ABOUT HIM.

tv4me

07-15-2009, 02:52 AM

After Michael's death, didn't DR come out and tell the press that Prince and Paris weren't Michael's nor were they biologically her's? Didn't she say she had been implanted with a fertilized egg for each pregnancy from unknown doners.

I thought that statement alone proved that she'd make a lousy mother. I mean, what kind of mom would tell something like that to the press, when the kids were still reeling from their father's death. It just showed to me that she did not have the children's best interests at heart. No matter how well protected the older children are, I'm sure, now that Debbie has said that, her statements will make it back to the kids. I can only imagine how much that will hurt them (emotionally)

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 02:54 AM

Nation if Islam? MJ was a Jehovah witness. If she was so concerned about her children she should have never sold them.
NOI provides protection to some black celebrities if needed or requested.
If she truly cares about MJ's children she will let them stay with his family..the family they know and love.

he was know longer a JW his parents and a few siblings still are..I have no clue but it is what DR said out of her own mouth..I do not know anything about it but DR is Jewish IIRC and did not like that..why was she worried about them? I really have no clue they were with him during the trial right? sorry I am lost on all this stuff..lol.

SweetLeilani

07-15-2009, 03:08 AM

ITA most of the Jacksons are still living off of MJ. And don't even get me going on what I think of La Toya:tongue: Janet is the only one I would trust to raise those kids I don't trust KJ because she is old and still married to Joe.IMO

I find it amusing that so many are believing every word that falls from La Toyas lips. Look back, she has told countless stories and recanted them, IMO she would have a hard time just reading a coroners report let alone interpereting it. She is out there selling her remarks and interviews to whoever will pay her, just as Joe Jackson is doing. Spinning a vast conspiracy theory insures interest in this story and future income for her, independent from the support I'm sure she gets from the Jackson family trust. They all have depended on Michael to support them. Except perhaps Janet and I'm sure they drain whatever they can from her.

SweetLeilani

07-15-2009, 03:09 AM

There is NOTHING wholesome about MJ or the Jacksons:lol: IMO

he's a Jackson insider.....trying to maintain the wholesome image of MJ and the family. IMO

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 03:17 AM

does anyone know what Macaulay Culkin is doing now..have not seen him in some time..

SweetLeilani

07-15-2009, 03:19 AM

I agree. I've learned so much more now that he is dead and my opinion of him as a person has lowered. He was a great singer and dancer in his prime but he should have quit while he was ahead and retired and moved away and lived of his investments then he wouldn't have had this pressure to perform all these concerts. I personally don't think he was the greatest dad when he was sleeping most of the day. I have to give credit to his nannies that took care of the kids.

I bet a lot of the doctors MJ went to never knew about the other meds he had been prescribed, especially since Michael was using aliases to get the medications.

What a circus this has turned into. I have read so much about MJ since he died and my opinion of him is very poor. He was no idol like so many are trying to tout him.

I just hope the children end up in a more stable environment than they were living in. I wonder how much of this they witnessed.

imo

SweetLeilani

07-15-2009, 03:22 AM

Don't make MJ sound like a victim he choose to take drugs no one put a gun to his head and lets take about all the money MJ owed people. I swear everytime MJ was sued he always had some medical reason why he couldn't make it or he was late. IMO
Some addicts have sensitive souls and are too vulnerable to bear the coldheated and hurtful incidents which occurred to them in their lives. I believe MJ was an addict of this sort. Considering all the disappointment and mockery he had to go through I can empathize why he wanted to escape into a state of numbing.

I would never endorse his addiction but I feel compassion.

SweetLeilani

07-15-2009, 03:24 AM

Debbie was crazy to give MJ kids he needed to grow up and get over his childhood first before becoming a father IMO

I was always very very concerned about those children, since the day he bought each one of them. IMO

I too hope they are able to get out from the Jackson Family Lies and manipulation and can live as normally as possible without the media. IMO

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 03:25 AM

Debbie Rowe said? Well, I'll take that to the bank ! lol Ooops... or maybe she'll beat me there with a check from the sale ( again) of her children.

:laugh:I had to laugh...I will have to look it up and find it..I am not joking or lying she did have a problem with it and also heard she got wind if MJ went to Prison he wanted his mother to have the kids so DR came running until he paid her off...and I would not say that if I had not heard it from many sources and the reason she went after custody when the trial was going on just think about it did she not pull one over on the Prosecutor I DO NOT TRUST HER MOTIVES..but that is just me..and MO..I wonder why they do not get a court appointed person to deal with this like they did with Anna Nicole and her baby..I do not trust Joe either he has no right to be talking about what those kids are going to do they are not his children and they can make that decision not him or any Jackson

SweetLeilani

07-15-2009, 03:31 AM

I'm a masseuse a guy can't be a masseuse! ET is dumb a male massage therapist is called a masseur

Paul Gorhanson, a man who Radar Online reports is claiming to be the former live-in masseuse and former lover of Dr. Arnold Klein, is speaking out about the ways that the dermatologist allegedly helped get him medication.

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/07/76391/

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 03:32 AM

Can't believe you are all still up. I tried to sleep but couldn't so just decided to check the board. LOL

The last I read about Macauly is that he wrote a book and his sister died earlier this year in a hit and run accident. I had posted a link in one of the previous threads - see if I can find it.

hi I took a nap so can not sleep..I read about his sister tonight..actually I am only asking because I was trying to see if he had made any statements since MJ passed since it seems to be so important as to who attended his memorial..and seen he got into some trouble back in 2004 and just wondered if he was doing ok now..I hope he got help..I see a pattern in these young kids who become famous at such a early age..OMG LKL has the funny Judge on from Anna Nicole's case..lol..

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0917042_culkin_2.html

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 03:40 AM

I'm a masseuse a guy can't be a masseuse! ET is dumb a male massage therapist is called a masseur

maybe they are not as good as you and just got it wrong..lol. give them a call and correct them:smile:

SweetLeilani

07-15-2009, 03:42 AM

The first 2 kids look nothing like MJ or any of the Jackson and they have some strong genes! IMO If it doesn't matter then why did MJ say that they are his bio kids?

I don't think the children resemble him either. I think the children are not 100% caucasian either. Not necessarily AA (not impossible) but definitely of another heritage; eg Middle Eastern, Latino; Native American etc. JMO No matter what IMO this is a very private matter.

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 03:43 AM

I think that was when he was arrested for speeding and possession of marijuana. I remember that because it happened either during or right after MJ's trial. (don't feel like reading - so off the top of my head )

I posted a link above to the series he is in.

ok just wanted to see what he was up to..so he is working great I loved Home Alone he will always be that little boy in my mind..and yeah those were the charges in Oklahoma was not meaning to bring his past in just wondered if he was doing ok..I seen that his sister was killed and then seen that and knew he had problems with his parents at a young age..he has had alot of deal with also

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 03:50 AM

The first 2 kids look nothing like MJ or any of the Jackson and they have some strong genes! IMO If it doesn't matter then why did MJ say that they are his bio kids?

maybe it never mattered to him he was a proud father blood does not make you a parent he has raised them for 12 and 11 and 7 years he is their father IMO..by blood I doubt it but who's business is it he was not privy to tell anyone who's sperm was used IMO...He is on the BC as the father..and DR gave all rights up but it was overturned by another judge due to a technicality..not being rude just do not know why it is such a big deal..they are and will always be MJ children...

http://site2.mjeol.com/mj-related/daming-docs-from-debbie-rowe-parental-rights-termination-hearing.html

SweetLeilani

07-15-2009, 03:52 AM

MJ didn't know how to be responsible and that is why he paid people around him to take the fall for his actions. IMO MJ is dead because of his choices of people he had around him and the choices he made. IMO

Yes, they should be brought to justice.

One thing that seems to be totally ignored here, IMO, is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Personal responsibility of the the procurers.

Personal responsibility of the people who take the drugs procured and ingested.

Michael Jackson is responsible for his own actions.

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 03:56 AM

Wade Robson was another childhood friend of MJ's that testified at the trial. I don't know if you watch SYTYCD but he is a famous choreographer now and he and Paula Abdul wanted to do a dance tribute on the show but Sony would not let them use MJ's music. I have no idea why - Nigel mentioned it on the last show. :(

omg really..I don't watch it but my kids do..that is sad I will say I went and seen Paula A years ago in concert you talk about a show..wow it was wonderful I was just telling the boys about it the other night cause we were watching MJ videos and I said PA was the only concert I had been to that could also put on a great show not just singing..but she is in alot of pain now IIRC..so that is the Wade someone ask about earlier..thanks now I know..

aproudmom

07-15-2009, 04:01 AM

Yes, they should be brought to justice.

One thing that seems to be totally ignored here, IMO, is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Personal responsibility of the the procurers.

Personal responsibility of the people who take the drugs procured and ingested.

Michael Jackson is responsible for his own actions.

Slick I have not seen one person on here say he did not pay and in the worst way he is dead..if I am wrong sorry but of all the posters I have seen post they say he is also to blame....but they want to see this stop and I agree.

disneyfreak

07-15-2009, 04:07 AM

ok just wanted to see what he was up to..so he is working great I loved Home Alone he will always be that little boy in my mind..and yeah those were the charges in Oklahoma was not meaning to bring his past in just wondered if he was doing ok..I seen that his sister was killed and then seen that and knew he had problems with his parents at a young age..he has had alot of deal with also

I never liked him as a child actor, but he knocked me away as an adult in the 2003 film Party Monster (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0320244/). I was very impressed.

disneyfreak

07-15-2009, 04:19 AM

I never liked him as a child actor, but he knocked me away as an adult in the 2003 film Party Monster (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0320244/). I was very impressed.

reposted on new thread.

ish

07-15-2009, 07:56 AM

I guess it is. I see no features of DR in either of the two children.

imo

I see a lot of Debbie in Paris, not Debbie now, but the younger Debbie that is in photos with Michael when Prince Michael and Paris were babies.

ish

07-15-2009, 08:32 AM

Apparently you don't know anything about the Jacksons. Your info is from the media. The $$$$ making media.

As for wholesome.. do you have an example to compare them with?
I have NEVER seen such a loving, grieving family come together in support of a loved one.
People are not concerned with the Jacksons per se..they are concerned and irritated with the world wide coverage Michael has received.

Marlon has been married 25 years. The other brothers have been married and have healthy children Rebi has been maried for 40 years to her her high school sweetheart.
Stop hating. Respect the dead. Carma is just around the corner.

They are all arguing over where to bury him, some want him where they can continue to make money off him (NEVERLAND) others just want him to be put to rest. The Jacksons are entertainers and performers (most of them) they love the spotlight. I don't doubt they loved their brother, but they also are loving the new attention to them. WHo has seen LaTOya in years? Now she is all over the papers collecting $$$$. Perhaps a bit more respect for the dead from his own family would be nice.