MIchael Jackson~ Monday July 13 [Archive] - Page 2

Unperson1984

07-13-2009, 09:42 PM

It is about time (see below), as I actually read some CA public official, a lady say they think the Jackson family should pay for it.
Ridiculous since CA has more wealthy people than most of the other states.

http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=7404&eeid=6676026&_sitecat=1479&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=en&rg=blsadstrgt&_lid=332&_lnm=tg+en+topnews&ck=&l=hm

LA mayor: City should cover Jackson memorial costs

LOS ANGELES (AP) - Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa (vee-yah-ry-GOH'-sah) has criticized his staff for setting up a Web site seeking donations to cover the city's cost from the Michael Jackson memorial.

Villaraigosa says the city is responsible for protecting public safety and should pick up the $1.4 million tab for police overtime and other services from the event last week at Staples Center.

The mayor, who was on vacation in South Africa during the memorial, called the city's donation Web site "ridiculous." He says he will not ask the public or Staples Center owner AEG Live to pay.

It was not immediately clear on Monday how much money the site raised or if the money would be returned.

That is only half the story. California also has the most poor people and the highest percent of people on welfare in the nation. We also have the highest number of illegal immigrants using our medical system for free.

One other fact, the AEG executives each donated the maximum allowed under the law to Antonio Villaraigosa's reelection campaign.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 09:42 PM

Someone said that early on----was it Grace? Someone said that he didn't know what he was signing. Or said that he probably didn't know what he was signing.

Nancy said he was on drugs at the time. But, he had witness that signed also.

Tracian

07-13-2009, 09:46 PM

It is about time (see below), as I actually read some CA public official, a lady say they think the Jackson family should pay for it.
Ridiculous since CA has more wealthy people than most of the other states.

http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=7404&eeid=6676026&_sitecat=1479&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=en&rg=blsadstrgt&_lid=332&_lnm=tg+en+topnews&ck=&l=hm

LA mayor: City should cover Jackson memorial costs

LOS ANGELES (AP) - Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa (vee-yah-ry-GOH'-sah) has criticized his staff for setting up a Web site seeking donations to cover the city's cost from the Michael Jackson memorial.

Villaraigosa says the city is responsible for protecting public safety and should pick up the $1.4 million tab for police overtime and other services from the event last week at Staples Center.

The mayor, who was on vacation in South Africa during the memorial, called the city's donation Web site "ridiculous." He says he will not ask the public or Staples Center owner AEG Live to pay.

It was not immediately clear on Monday how much money the site raised or if the money would be returned.

IMO, if money was raised, then that could be used. Aside from that, families are always responsible for the cost of memorials etc.

Mamie

07-13-2009, 09:47 PM

Nancy said he was on drugs at the time. But, he had witness that signed also.

No, not Nancy Grace----I mean Grace, the gal that took care of the kids. And as for the witnesses, they only witness the signature of the main party by signing themselves, they don't actually witness what the document in its entirety is.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 09:48 PM

I could be wrong but I think she is referring some of the off comments being made which are not contributing to the discussion. ??

Oh ok thanks. I must have missed those.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 09:50 PM

Hope some of you are watching LKL. Judge Jeanine Pirro (sp) is making some good points. She said if the pharmacies filled prescriptions in different people's names but the bill was going to the same person to be paid -- these pharmacies and doctors will lose their licenses at the low end. Society will no longer tolerate this and neither will our justice system and if the doctors engaged in behavior that deviated from laws - they will face much more serious charges. If malice is proven -- murder 2 (Mark Geragos).

Re: the children. Mark Geragos said he was involved with DCFS during the initial investigation of MJ with the children and it was determined that the children were normal, well-adjusted children. He (and Judge Pirro agreed) that the children should remain with KJ with Grace -- he said this is a good judge also who this custody case is going before.

It guess it wouldn't matter if they paid cash. Right?

Unperson1984

07-13-2009, 09:52 PM

Interesting: Terry Lyles Crisis Expert and Psychologist said he doesn't really think MJ knew the details of the all that was happening him with drugs and the handlers may be more involved than is known right now.

I see a huge flaw in this "control" theory. If MJ was being controlled and handled, why would the handlers allow MJ to contact and rehire John Branca? Branca was always known to be an excellent advisor who looked out for MJ's interest. Seems as though Branca would be the last person handlers would want back in MJ's life.

Of course it makes a great dramatic tale for LaToya and Joe to tell.

IMHO

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 09:56 PM

This wouldn't be the first time. Many lawsuits that have been brought against MJ is because the business managers have signed contracts with details not known to MJ and his financial manager testified to that during the trial; that at meetings MJ attended - the final contracts differed than what he thought he walking away with. According to reports we have read recently MJ believed he was doing 10 concerts not 50 and it was his business manager (Dr. Tohme Tohme) who signed the contracts. JMO

My husband owns his own business and you would be surprised at how contracts contain so many discrepancies than what was discussed it isn't funny and can be missed by the layman. You really need to have a trusted lawyer. Every contract my husband gets is sent to our attorney BEFORE he signs anything.

She was talking about his Will. Saying he was using drugs at the time. But, he had witness saying and signing that he was of sound mind.

Mamie

07-13-2009, 09:58 PM

This wouldn't be the first time. Many lawsuits that have been brought against MJ is because the business managers have signed contracts with details not known to MJ and his financial manager testified to that during the trial; that at meetings MJ attended - the final contracts differed than what he thought he walking away with. According to reports we have read recently MJ believed he was doing 10 concerts not 50 and it was his business manager (Dr. Tohme Tohme) who signed the contracts. JMO

My husband owns his own business and you would be surprised at how contracts contain so many discrepancies than what was discussed it isn't funny and can be missed by the layman. You really need to have a trusted lawyer. Every contract my husband gets is sent to our attorney BEFORE he signs anything.

Good for your hubby----that's good business to practice that way. In this day and age where everybody is out to make a fast buck, or scam someone, you almost need a tape recorder of the session where everything is discussed. In fact, the tape recorder wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

And I have LKL taping tonight at midnight because I have other things taping earlier and I missed part of his show before I read your post about it being very interesting. Doncha just love Pirro?

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 10:00 PM

Unperson1984

07-13-2009, 10:00 PM

It looks to me like they want to have conflicting autopsys. Big mistake, I would have insisted somebody from the Jacksons side be there to watch.

I'd say just the opposite, the Jacksons are laying a defense for MJ's drug use by saying it was forced on him..

In California there is no right to have a representative at an autopsy.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 10:01 PM

Well the Judge for an example brought up that lawsuit that was settled with the pharmacy for $100K+. That is one bill -- but how many prescriptions did that cover and in whose names. So I don't think it would matter if they paid cash unless records were not kept??? But aren't all controlled substances dispensed to pharmacies logged??? They all go into a database???

Anyone ???

All true. I forgot about the huge bill.

Mamie

07-13-2009, 10:07 PM

Absolutely -- I really do love Pirro and she is not a sensationalist like so many other legal analysts. :wub:

Yes -- he does use a tape recorder as well !! :)

See-----I knew it was a good idea! LOL

Exactly right, she isn't a sensationlist. She's got a good head on her shoulders and uses it. JMO

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 10:08 PM

I see your point but I believe that is why MJ brought Branca back into the loop. He also rehired his 30 year financial manager Leonard Rowe. I believe he had started to suspect something wasn't right and was going to let some of those people go. It may have started with the contract also. Supposedly a meeting MJ was in -- said he agreed to 10 concerts and this Dr. Tohme Tohme signed for 50. Leonard Rowe was on CNN the other night saying he was trying to renegotiate it with Randy Philips from AEG and confirmed this.

How can this Thome guy sign for more contracts without MJ signing also?

AEG guy also said they agreed to MJ having Dr. Murray, but that MJ never signed the contract. So they are saying they don't owe the Dr. I think the Dr. has more problems now than getting paid. Although that money may come in real handy soon.

Tracian

07-13-2009, 10:11 PM

I also have a question about "they kept him drugged". I don't think anyone did anything MJ didn't ask them to do.

This was a famous line in ANS....'kept drugged'

It is very sad that addiction, especially for those with a great deal of money and influence seems to be the 'norm', but I don't believe that they are being forced.

As I have stated, my position on MJ has changed in some ways, but I do believe he did have a substance abuse problem; that does not mean he didn't love his children, and I am sure he never thought it would cost him his life.

VC2

07-13-2009, 10:30 PM

I see a huge flaw in this "control" theory. If MJ was being controlled and handled, why would the handlers allow MJ to contact and rehire John Branca? Branca was always known to be an excellent advisor who looked out for MJ's interest. Seems as though Branca would be the last person handlers would want back in MJ's life.

Of course it makes a great dramatic tale for LaToya and Joe to tell.

IMHO

I tend to agree. I think that the fact he had rehired Dileo as well, quite a bit before he returned and rehired Branca also puts paid to the control thing.

In fact i get the sense that from the start the family seemed more distrustful of the good advisors he rehired and considered them the new people

IMO

eta and i think that makes more sense when you think about this crazy "family tour". I cannot imagine what pressure was brought to bear that made MJ sign up for it in the first place and it could easily have been that is the one he was pressured into. I just do not see him in anyway helping Joe again exploit him as the main singer in the "jackson five" if he was not being controlled in some way at the time he signed that.

The 50 concerts? yeah i imagine tohme signed for to many but i don't think that MJ really believed just 10. I suspect there is proof of what Randy Phillips said too about it, that they originally offered 20 or 30 (i cant remember which) and they sold out so fast they then negotiated some more dates. The dates of the first set should be available on line somewhere.

IMO

Tracian

07-13-2009, 10:32 PM

Why were these concerts to be performed in London? Why not in the US? Was MJ afraid to face the American people? i dont get it.

I have a sister living in England. MJ took hits in England, but nothing like what he took here in the media.

In general, Europe accepted the verdict and moved on.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 10:37 PM

Different issue Cinder :) I presume you are referring to LaToya??

I was responding to a question that Mamie had of my original post:

Well, I will wait for Mamie to respond, but I was watching NG and she was talking about the will, saying he didn't know what he was signing. I think. Don't know.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 10:41 PM

This was a famous line in ANS....'kept drugged'

It is very sad that addiction, especially for those with a great deal of money and influence seems to be the 'norm', but I don't believe that they are being forced.

As I have stated, my position on MJ has changed in some ways, but I do believe he did have a substance abuse problem; that does not mean he didn't love his children, and I am sure he never thought it would cost him his life.

I look at the ANS case a little differently. Especially after Daniel died. I do think they kept her drugged. Before he died I don't think so. I think she took what she wanted. MJ. seemed to be more in control of himself. Different from ANS.

VC2

07-13-2009, 10:44 PM

I think "forced" is too strong -- MJ still obviously had to take them.

What I think though it would certainly lead to him being vulnerable and taken advantage of. JMO

athena i know the family is "sticking together" at least publicly right now, but as far as i am concerned any family that sued him for deciding to do the 02 concerts had nothing but their own best interests at heart. I sure don't believe they worried about his health when they did. The stress of being sued by the family would have been detrimental to his health in the first place. With a couple of exceptions, Janet and perhaps Jermaine as well as KJ.

He deliberately kept them at bay the last few months, the same months that he was getting himself in shape for the tour, rehearsing, working with the choreographer and had hired back many of his team from his successful hey day who known to be responsible.

I believe the kids should be with KJ but i sure hope the judge appoints a guardian ad litem as well because i do not trust her to be able to stand against joe and some of the kids. She will want to but if the kids get involved..and thank goodness branca and mclaine will be managing his estate.

I just do not trust La Toya or some of the others. They admit they have not talked to MJ, we know he was sued over the family tour, and they were calling his new team all sorts of things at first. I guess la toya thought the old team was better? all the leeches?

I agree with her that his death was likely a homicide in the technical words..manslaughter is still a homicide but that is over the diprivan. If its other drugs...well there was lots of enabling but he was capable of swallowing the meds all on his own and it is not expected to have rescue equipment to swallow demerol.

imo

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 10:48 PM

I find that a bit strange too Cinder. Why would you hire someone if MJ didn't sign the contract? I know Geraldo can be a kook sometimes but 3 weeks ago he said the promoters allegedly could be up to their eyeballs here. He said according to his sources that MJ was infuriated when he found about these 50 concerts and said no way would he have agreed to that amount especially in one location. Could he have signed in a drugged state? Dunno. If he did not perform -- they could lose their business. I tried to find that on his website "Geraldo at Large" and that show is not even mentioned on it ? but I tivo'd it and saved it.

Does the insurance cover non-performance???

Interesting too is that people that know MJ said he was NOT in shape to do 50 shows yet the promoters said he was. I suspect that is why they released that last rehearsal too - to support their version of his health. Something definitely not right here. :shrug:

Jackson's misgivings were echoed by his son's financial advisor Leonard Rowe, who also told ABC News that the star was in no condition to make a comeback, describing reports that he was in good shape as "totally untrue."

"Michael Jackson was not ready. He was not fit. If you can call weighing about 110 to 115 pounds fit. Besides that MJ told me himself that he never wanted to do 50 shows he only wanted to do 10," Rowe told ABC.

Randy Phillips, chief of concert promoters AEG Live, told ABC that it had been Michael Jackson's idea to increase the original run of concerts from 31 to 50, saying the singer would have been averaging under three shows a week.

"If that was too many, then one would have been too many," Phillips said.

Jackson's physical condition in the days leading up to his death last month has been the subject of intense debate, with sharply different versions offered by the singer's associates.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5821372/Michael-Jacksons-father-condemns-50-date-concert-schedule.html

I also think that AEG knew exactly what drugs MJ was taking after he had his physical....blood work and all. That is when I think they bought the Loyd's of London policy for death by overdose.

Tracian

07-13-2009, 10:48 PM

I look at the ANS case a little differently. Especially after Daniel died. I do think they kept her drugged. Before he died I don't think so. I think she took what she wanted. MJ. seemed to be more in control of himself. Different from ANS.

LOL...I would love to talk ANS with you but back on topic. :smile:

I have been around people dependant, and they are very manipulative. It is tragic...because IMO, it is not that they want to be hurtful, it is because they are hurting.

VC2

07-13-2009, 10:49 PM

I have a sister living in England. MJ took hits in England, but nothing like what he took here in the media.

In general, Europe accepted the verdict and moved on.

Yes and they also reported far more of the facts of the actual trial rather than twisting them or frankly outright lying about them as some of the american media did. (i mean facts of what happened in the court room) This made it much easier to accept the verdict.

I know a couple of posters from the trial have pm'd me that their thoughts on the case are different now, partially because they actually read some of the things that were ignored in the US media at the time since his death. There was only one decent US reporter that i remember and it was Linda Deutsch of the AP who reported the facts without a strong twist and both sides of what happened in the courtroom.

imo

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 10:58 PM

LOL...I would love to talk ANS with you but back on topic. :smile:

I have been around people dependant, and they are very manipulative. It is tragic...because IMO, it is not that they want to be hurtful, it is because they are hurting.

Pssssst. Tracian I think we did. :ohmy::lol: I don't remember the details though so all is good.

OK back on topic. I kind of agree on MJ. I actually think he was the user of people. I think he was hurting, but I think he used his people to get what he wanted, and never gave it a second thought that the Dr.s, pharmacies, the people who worked for him, his family, or children were going to be hurt. I think in with this issue, Drugs, he was very selfish. My thinking, of course.

Tracian

07-13-2009, 11:07 PM

Pssssst. Tracian I think we did. :ohmy::lol: I don't remember the details though so all is good.

OK back on topic. I kind of agree on MJ. I actually think he was the user of people. I think he was hurting, but I think he used his people to get what he wanted, and never gave it a second thought that the Dr.s, pharmacies, the people who worked for him, his family, or children were going to be hurt. I think in with this issue, Drugs, he was very selfish. My thinking, of course.

LOL...bet you are right :smile:

Addicts are selfish, but IMO, not in the general definition. Addiction is an evil being in itself. It takes on a life of its own.

I blame doctors, for being enablers...because they alone leave anyone that would be able to help, powerless.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 11:10 PM

LOL...bet you are right :smile:

Addicts are selfish, but IMO, not in the general definition. Addiction is an evil being in itself. It takes on a life of its own.

I blame doctors, for being enablers...because they alone leave anyone that would be able to help, powerless.

I agree with all of your post. It is just sad that the kids couldn't make the difference. But, as you say, and I say, Addicts are selfish.

Tracian

07-13-2009, 11:12 PM

I agree with all of your post. It is just sad that the kids couldn't make the difference. But, as you say, and I say, Addicts are selfish.

Those kids may have kept him alive longer than he would have been without them.

I dunno...just a thought. I do believe that he did love them beyond reason, because they were the few people in his life that only wanted to be loved back.

No strings.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 11:15 PM

She already did. All you have to do it click on the little arrow to the right and it will take you back to the original posts. We were not talking about NG or the will

Ok sorry....My mistake.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 11:17 PM

Those kids may have kept him alive longer than he would have been without them.

I dunno...just a thought. I do believe that he did love them beyond reason, because they were the few people in his life that only wanted to be loved back.

No strings.

I truly think he did love his children, but unfortunately not above all else. He should have gotten help, for them, if not for him.

ScoobyDoo

07-13-2009, 11:20 PM

Why were these concerts to be performed in London? Why not in the US? Was MJ afraid to face the American people? i dont get it.

I think people in London didn't believe the things that brought Michael Jackson down, and rightly so. I also think it took his death to make American people appreciate his talent. It shows, to me at least, the people of this country are too fixated on gossip, hate, and watching people get torn down, to the point that they can't see beyond that.

imo...of course.

ScoobyDoo

07-13-2009, 11:22 PM

I agree with all of your post. It is just sad that the kids couldn't make the difference. But, as you say, and I say, Addicts are selfish.

Didn't I read one of your posts that said you were a smoker?

Tracian

07-13-2009, 11:24 PM

I truly think he did love his children, but unfortunately not above all else. He should have gotten help, for them, if not for him.

When someone has a doctor(s) that are willing to support them...impossible, they have that reassurance that what they are doing is 'okay'...it is excused. (this I have seen and live first hand with a close family member)

What we need are doctors that take their oath more seriously than the summer home, vacation home, the boats and the 'status' they get for hangin' with a Celeb...or in the case of the non-famous, stop being lazy and doing what is right, rather than what the insurance companies allow.

Prescription addiction is an epidemic ignored unless it is someone 'rich and famous' but they are by far not the only victims of greedy, unethical doctors.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 11:24 PM

No need to be sorry :) Many different discussions on this thread -- not hard to be confused. I use that little icon to the right a lot. LOL I use lots of the little icons on the right. Mostly nicely I hope. :tonguewag: I really try to avoid the eyeroll.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 11:29 PM

That is a problem with drug addicts though. They cannot stop by themselves which is why those around him are called "enablers". No one wanted to put their foot down and say no and kept him from the ones that could have helped. If they were concerned they would have let his family in with or without MJ's approval but they were more concerned about the $. I went through it with my brother. Heck I can't even give up smoking. JMO

I agree. And, psssst. I can't give up smoking either. Addictions all the same. Whether heavy drugs, food, smoking etc. I am no better than MJ. in that respect.

eta: I am as p***ed at me as I am at him. Well, I guess more with me, cause it is my life.

Callie

07-13-2009, 11:29 PM

Let's start this one on a positive and factual note :)

Most Successful Concert Series - Guiness Book Of World Records
Michael Jackson sold out for seven nights at Wembley Stadium, London, England in the summer of 1988. A total of 504,000 people saw Michael perform July 14-16, 22-23, and August 26-27, 1988.

Biggest Selling Album Of All Time - Guiness Book Of World Records
Michael Jackson's "Thriller" Album is the biggest selling album of all time, with over 50 million copies sold worldwide. Thriller is also the biggest selling U.S album with sales of 25 million copies.

80's Most #1 Hits
By The End of the 1980's MIchael Jackson had more #1 hits than any other artist for the decade.

Awards
Michael has more awards than any other artist

http:www.allmichaeljackdon.com/therecords.html

And anyone who watched the Memorial Service knows the rest of his legacy.

Also Guiness Book Of World Records for a music star giving the most money to charities.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 11:31 PM

When someone has a doctor(s) that are willing to support them...impossible, they have that reassurance that what they are doing is 'okay'...it is excused. (this I have seen and live first hand with a close family member)

What we need are doctors that take their oath more seriously than the summer home, vacation home, the boats and the 'status' they get for hangin' with a Celeb...or in the case of the non-famous, stop being lazy and doing what is right, rather than what the insurance companies allow.

Prescription addiction is an epidemic ignored unless it is someone 'rich and famous' but they are by far not the only victims of greedy, unethical doctors.

Wow, I completely agree. Did we agree on the "other" case? I think we must have. :laugh:

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 11:32 PM

Oh I was talking about the arrow to the right of the name to go back to original posts. LOL

ha, I know. I didn't do that. My bad.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 11:35 PM

This was a very articulate post and just not the doctors -- but the enablers around them that take no personal interest in the person but is more concerned with the $. Perhaps that is the difference Tracian. We have both been affected personally with someone we love. I just responded to Cinder as well and mentioned my brother. It was very difficult and was a long, hard road -- but he is OK now.

I am glad your brother made it through. I have had some that I loved that were not so fortunate. Very young guys. Sad.

LordMisRule

07-13-2009, 11:37 PM

I also have a question about "they kept him drugged". I don't think anyone did anything MJ didn't ask them to do.

I agree with you. He was the one who called the Nurse to ask her to provide him with Diprivan. She doesn't have an axe to grind with him, nor does she seem to want money, so I believe her what she has said in interviews. And Chopra has also come forward and stated that MJ asked him for drugs.

TaraCrazyHair

07-13-2009, 11:40 PM

I have been catching up on reading here and i have to interject a thought regarding his drug use (not so much alleged)

If Michael had Drs and people saying he needed to take this drug or that drug .... does that make him an addict in the sense I am gathering most posters take?

He was so child-like in a weird sense yet so business savvy in another ... is it not possible he felt he took his "meds" and was not really addicted in the true sense of the word?

Not certain if making sense of what i want to say but I hope you get my drift

Tracian

07-13-2009, 11:41 PM

Wow, I completely agree. Did we agree on the "other" case? I think we must have. :laugh:

We may have...I am stubborn, and my nick is ALWAYS Tracian... :lol:

It makes me sick...honestly, the way some profit from the misery of others.

I will not even give money to a panhandler, but I will buy them food; but some of these doctors hand out scripts like it is Halloween candy.

And there is no 'treat' there.

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 11:42 PM

I agree with you. He was the one who called the Nurse to ask her to provide him with Diprivan. She doesn't have an axe to grind with him, nor does she seem to want money, so I believe her what she has said in interviews. And Chopra has also come forward and stated that MJ asked him for drugs.

I agree, and both of those people, plus more I think, warned him about this drug. My ER nurse friend was horrified when this first came out. As we all know now, she said it was a crazy drug to use at home. She said they use it quite a bit in the ER, and the hoops they have to go through to use is nuts. She said there is no way one person could possibly administer this drug without the equipment,and at least two people with the patient.

TaraCrazyHair

07-13-2009, 11:42 PM

Tracian

07-13-2009, 11:44 PM

I am glad your brother made it through. I have had some that I loved that were not so fortunate. Very young guys. Sad.

I am happy for Athena as well...it is always a glimmer of hope for others when we hear a story of success and hope.

I am still fighting and hoping for mine...but I do have faith.

My thoughts with you Cinder...I know where you are coming from. :rose:

ScoobyDoo

07-13-2009, 11:45 PM

CinderL.

07-13-2009, 11:47 PM

We may have...I am stubborn, and my nick is ALWAYS Tracian... :lol:

It makes me sick...honestly, the way some profit from the misery of others.

I will not even give money to a panhandler, but I will buy them food; but some of these doctors hand out scripts like it is Halloween candy.

And there is no 'treat' there.

Ha, I remember Trician, I just don't remember the specifics. I didn't ever get banned, just got put in the corner at times, but only by Sammie. I got messed up when it changed from Court TV I think.
There will always be someone to take advantage of someone in distress. IMO

Tracian

07-13-2009, 11:55 PM

Wishing you all the best Tracian. Keep the faith -- and "tough love"

:rose:

You are a Gem...:rose:

'tough love' nearly got her killed...twice.

I think that is why the Jackson's (Janet, from what I have 'read') kinda tread carefully.

Sadly, there is no right or wrong way...but faith, and hope is the only way...hope that makes sense, I am getting misty.

Right now, my concern is on the children. MJ, is in a better place, his children are going to have the rough road to walk--I pray they are not exploited.

CinderL.

07-14-2009, 12:16 AM

Sorry Cinder :rose:

Thanks, friends of my kids. Like my own. They never learn, until something horrible happens. IMO

CinderL.

07-14-2009, 12:18 AM

I am happy for Athena as well...it is always a glimmer of hope for others when we hear a story of success and hope.

I am still fighting and hoping for mine...but I do have faith.

My thoughts with you Cinder...I know where you are coming from. :rose:

I hope it works out well. There is always hope if they are still with us.

CinderL.

07-14-2009, 12:20 AM

This just breaks my heart:

Los Angeles - Michael Jackson's grieving daughter wrapped a heart necklace around his wrist as his body lay in an open coffin.

Paris Jackson, 11, wanted to give the piece of jewellery to her late father when she visited him at Los Angeles' Forest Lawn Cemetery last Monday as she wanted to make sure he always had something to remind him of her.

"Paris told me, 'The heart is in two pieces. I want one half to go to daddy and I will wear the other half forever,'" said Michael's elder sister La Toya, who witnessed the heartbreaking act during the family's private viewing.

"She carefully wrapped it around his wrist and said, 'Daddy this is for you. On daddy, it will be blue because he is cold. On me, it's purple. He's so cold, he is so cold.'"

Paris bought the necklace - which changes colour according to temperature - after Michael died of a suspected cardiac arrest last month and she wore it when she made her emotional tribute to him at his memorial service last Tuesday.

http://www.news24.com/Content/Entertainment/CelebNews/1048/0f0a5cd8d11f4441ad5cf23d6975367c/13-07-2009%2006-07/Paris_Jackson_leaves_trinket

:rose: For the children

Goodnight all

This is so sad, and didn't have to happen. Geez.

CinderL.

07-14-2009, 12:49 AM

Since it seems I am the only one left here tonight. I will say good night, and see you all in two weeks. I am sure when I get back, all ......will have hit the fan, so to speak, with the autopsy coming out...and whatever. So you all be good, and if anyone is not here when I get back, let me know who you are please. I get :confused:. Bye for now. Be good. :seeya:

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 12:59 AM

Are you related to the Jackson's?

Just curious cuz you defend him as if you know him personally. :confused:

mo

I'm inclined to agree with you since reading a few threads here. jmo

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 01:17 AM

I wonder what LaToya knows that she cannot reveal.

The official coroner's report is not due for two weeks but La Toya already knows the results of the family's own toxicology tests on the body and said: "I think everyone will be surprised when the results come out.

Cops removed two dustbin bags-full of prescription drugs from the house.

But La Toya insisted vegetarian Jacko had told her he was on a six-month DETOX.

And the last time they'd met, at 60th wedding anniversary celebrations for their parents in a Beverly Hills curry house three weeks before his death, the singer seemed strong and healthy to his sister.

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/402626/I-will-nail-Michael-Jacksons-killers-sister-La-Toya-vows-to-prove-stars-death-was-foul-play.html

La Toya wouldn't know anything at all about the investigation. The family should have the tox results from the autopsy they paid to have done. I think La Toya is campaigning in the media to start covering for the drugs found in his system. Like he wasn't an addict, he was murdered. The drugs were forced in hm. I think we will see he had a boat load of drugs in his system. Mr. Jackson was an addict and has been for a very long time which was unfortunate for him and his children. He was a very talented performer and now he is silenced.

Even if doctors are charged for drug violations, the ultimate responsibility for his life was his own.

Of course these are my own opinions.

retiredcop

07-14-2009, 01:50 AM

http://www.showbizspy.com/article/189198/michael-jacksons-mom-makes-deal-with-debbie-rowe

Michael Jackson’s Mom Makes Deal With Debbie Rowe

snipped

“The last thing she wanted was for those kids to be looked after by Joe and go through what Michael went through,” a source told the Sunday Mirror newspaper.

snipped

Under the tentative deal struck by Katherine and “Miss Debbie” — as she’s known to the kids not Mom — Rowe promised not to pursue a custody battle in exchange for monthly supervised visits, a source told the New York Post.

Interesting, so she is known to the kids. She must have been around them before.

my opinion of course

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 04:55 AM

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 05:05 AM

Are you related to the Jackson's?

Just curious cuz you defend him as if you know him personally. :confused:

mo

I do not know if GB is related to MJ but I really doubt it I see your a new poster and GB has been around for some time and pretty much post just what GB wants a very compassionate poster since I have been on here..but guess you will get your answer about is GB related to MJ from GB but I really doubt it and this is not the only thread I have posted on with GB not butting in but when I post with someone one on several threads you do learn a little bit about the person and respect their opinions especially when they do not attack others and not saying you are just in general..JMO

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 05:25 AM

I have seen nor heard Quincy confirm that. All tabloid stuff. He has been in many interviews on TV and have never heard him mention anything about MJ's looks period and even if he did; he is NOT a Doctor. JMO

I HAVE NEVER HEARD THAT EITHER...FGS lets see how much we can slam MJ in death no freaking wonder the man had to be on medication There is NO ONE on this forum that knows what MJ went through some fail to read the truth but only read the miss truths because they are to afraid they may be wrong..and that is JMO....BTW not talking about you Athena or anyone particular person just saying it is very sad some do not even want to know the truth they just see the bad..this man lived in pure H*** in life I could not do it..I would probably being smoking and popping everything if i was treated in such a horrible way not even sure I would want to live..yes he took prescription drugs yes he may have seemed odd to alot of us yes he had ALLEGATIONS of messing with a couple of boys who parents only wanted money by gosh if someone touched my child the H*** with money my child's molester would be lucky to be alive I would be their worst nightmare...when your sued for a women dying in a hospital 2 years after you ended up in he ER and felt he caused a 87yr old women to die OMG he was in the ER and they wanted to sue him for being sick and being there and security BTW it was thrown out what a freaking joke IMO..Like he killed the women maybe the doctors did not do their job but you sue someone who just so happens to be sick and in the ER because it is MJ...:angry: and have vultures everywhere just think about the type of life he did have to endure and did it better than alot of people would..this man could not win for losing he tried to help the hungry and help the sick and all that means nothing because some money grubbing parents were looking to make millions off of MJ..GREAT PARENTS THERE I think they are sicker than MJ if they took money for their child's innocence...

all JMO

ScoobyDoo

07-14-2009, 05:30 AM

Are you related to the Jackson's?

Just curious cuz you defend him as if you know him personally. :confused:

mo

Maybe its because of the people who berate, ridicule and, condemn
him, without ever knowing who that person is, what's inside of him, and base the condemnation on gossip news reports.

*shrug*

LordMisRule

07-14-2009, 05:46 AM

I have seen nor heard Quincy confirm that. All tabloid stuff. He has been in many interviews on TV and have never heard him mention anything about MJ's looks period and even if he did; he is NOT a Doctor. JMO

Quincy has never stated that Michael told him that he wanted to be white. From the below link to an interview, it was a statement of opinion on Michael's appearance. No, he's not a doctor, but he had a close relationship to Michael, even to the point of referring to him as his little brother.

It's ridiculous, man! Chemical peels and all of it. And I don't understand it. But he obviously didn't want to be black.

http://men.style.com/details/features/full?id=content_9937

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 06:20 AM

Dr. Klein suggested that the surgeries were done for medical reasons. :rolleyes:

Poor Arnie. He's probably a very good Dr. but this will destroy him.

mo

With all do respect are you a Doctor? for one they are to follow a ethics code and if this poor Arnie was giving MJ any medication knowing he was a addict he broke that ethics code and should lose his license IMO..I think Ol Arnie may wanna hush up he is digging a deeper hole for himself by saying he knew all this and did nothing but MJ is seen coming out of his office many times for 2 months prior to his death did he not give him any type of medication during or after his procedures? do you know? I DO NOT but if a Doctor knows they can be held accountable he was also feeding a addiction so there is no poor anyone here I hope to see Doctors, Pharmacy's and enablers who know someone is getting meds in their name and even picking them up those are the ones that need to be prosecuted and this may keep others from dying I have seen so many people get addicted to pain medication because a doctor handed it out to them they get addicted and then they cut them off cold turkey so they look for it elsewhere..I have seen it I have reported it and I have also helped the ones who needed help for their children..but I blame the doctors also..I blame our blindness to this problem that is killing so many not just the rich and famous either..JMO

ALSO someone said something about he had breathing problems because of his nose for 1 MJ went way to far we all know that 2 it happens it is very hard to breathe even people who have never had surgery's who ever kept doing these surgery's maybe we need to be required to have counseling they did it before they allow anyone to have Bariatric surgery they are MADE to go through a process to make sure they are not using food for other reasons such as child abuse PTS and many other things..so maybe we need to have the same system set up with plastic surgery MJ I feel had his face changed because he was never happy with the way he looked he told OPRAH he could not look in a mirror he hated what he saw he said his father and brothers picked on him about his nose, his acne scars embarrassed him so bad he was not that cute little boy and he remembered a women from years ago asking where is cute little Michael and when he said I am right here she looked at him with disgust over the pimples he had..ALL those things right there could cause someone to be so unhappy with their looks and try to change them and that is what I truly believe happened to MJ and it went way to far..JMO

I was shocked when I heard one of the Olsen twins could not look at her sister because all she could think about is how much she wished she looked like her sister..FGS they are twins but it sent her into a eating disorder..I do not think we have a clue what the Rich and Famous take or feel or how they parent..we just see them on TV not in real life...Delta Burke was a hoarder and we all know she had so many issues with her weight..and guess what everyone WE DO IT TO THEM we read and buy those magazines Who wore it best so and so gained a few pounds..it is disgusting..what some of those magazines say and do..jmo

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 06:32 AM

A doctor must always maintain the highest standards of professional conduct.

A doctor must practice his profession uninfluenced by motives of profit.

The following practices are deemed unethical:

a.Any self advertisement except such as is expressly authorized by the national code of medical ethics;
b.Collaborate in any form of medical service in which the doctor does not have professional independence;
c.Receiving any money in connection with services rendered to a patient other than a proper professional fee, even with the knowledge of the patient.
Any act, or advice which could weaken physical or mental resistance of a human being may be used only in his interest.

A doctor is advised to use great caution in divulging discoveries or new techniques of treatment.

A doctor should certify or testify only to that which he has personally verified.

Duties of Doctors to the Sick
A doctor must always bear in mind the obligation of preserving human life from conception. Therapeutic abortion may only be performed if the conscience of the doctors and the national laws permit.

A doctor owes to his patient complete loyalty and all the resources of his science. Whenever an examination or treatment is beyond his capacity he should summon another doctor who has the necessary ability.

A doctor shall preserve absolute secrecy on all he knows about his patient because of the confidence entrusted in him.

1) the statement "Any act, or advice which could weaken physical or mental resistance of a human being may be used only in his interest", 2) the requirement to be "loyal" to his patient, 3) the requirement to "observe the principles of The Declaration of Geneva", because that document requires that a doctor must not use "medical knowledge contrary to the laws of humanity", and 4) the requirement that a doctor must "practice his profession uninfluenced by motives of profit."]

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 06:51 AM

Quincy has never stated that Michael told him that he wanted to be white. From the below link to an interview, it was a statement of opinion on Michael's appearance. No, he's not a doctor, but he had a close relationship to Michael, even to the point of referring to him as his little brother.

http://men.style.com/details/features/full?id=content_9937

Thanks Lord for the link I had never head him say that either..
I do not think MJ was wanting to be white..he put it best himself..when he said why is it ok for a white person to go and tan and sunbath to darken their skin to be something they are not..I have seen some who look like they are far from white..but if he did have what Dr. K said then he pretty much explained why MJ skin was lighter the pigment I am not a doctor but I have no proof MJ was trying to change what he was and the many people he help of color..who never tuned on him when he was raising millions of dollars to feed them...at this point I do not even read the links they twist stuff so much..

FrankieBones1

07-14-2009, 06:51 AM

I think it would be wise for everyone to watch this video from beginning to end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ6b7kHGsSg

Vitiligo ?? Does Michael Jackson REALLY have this disorder ?

God rest his soul.:rose:

It is so noticeable when he was on stage in that video. His perspiration washed away the dark makeup on his neck and chest. Thanks for posting this, GentleBreeze.

FrankieBones1

07-14-2009, 06:56 AM

The same man that is not cooperating fully with the investigation? I wouldn't believe him if my life depended on it. He didn't know MJ when he started altering himself by in 1982-83 so his word means nadda.

Good Dr. doesn't feed a drug addict. He knew. He's known for a long time too.

Cute nic you've got there.

imoAnd not to mention his interview with Larry King Live last week where he "hints" that he could be the biological father of Michael's kids. This horrible man is out for his fifteen and show off his botoxed forehead. My opinion, of course.

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 07:43 AM

I am hoping any doctor or nurse who has got on nation TV and told all of AMERICA MJ medical treatment are turned in..for one they are bound by law and have no business talking to ANYONE BUT Law Enforcement I have been so Angry over this and did some research and it does exist after death just as I thought..I am happy the nurse talked or any Doctor but I am NOT happy with the way they did it...and I hope they are punished or sued...just think if it was your family member..

A number of others pointed out that there was no reason to set a different privacy standard for deceased individuals than we had for living individuals and that it has been standard practice to release the information of deceased individuals with a valid consent of the executor, next of kin, or specific court order. as at least one example of a state law where the privacy and access provisions of the law continue to apply to the protected health information of a deceased individual following the death of that individual.

Michael Jackson doctor went too far
The dermatologist who exposed the singer's medical history on "Larry King Live" committed a fundamental violation
By Rahul K. Parikh, M.D.

Last week, Dr. Arnold Klein, Michael Jackson's Beverly Hills dermatologist, showed up on "Larry King Live." Klein is usually described as "the father of cosmetic dermatology" (he pioneered the use of botox for wrinkles) and "the dermatologist to the stars." Klein's bio on his Web site shows him to be a well respected, philanthropic and frequently published medical expert. But Google him and you'll notice few serious publications between the numerous results that land you at TMZ and other Hollywood gossip sites. Klein seems to bask in this world like a lizard under a hot sun. And so it was in the spirit of infotainment that Arnie (as his friends call him) made the decision to dish about Jackson. At best, Klein and King behaved in bad taste. At worst, I was left wondering if Klein and his loose lips crossed a medical law.

Klein went on to reveal many other details, like how he was "rebuilding" Jackson's face before his comeback concert. On the subject of drug use, Klein continued to chat up the audience. He admitted to providing Jackson with Demerol to sedate him :sneaky:

Klein, as if he had Jackson's chart in front of him, dished about the singer's past medical history. "Michael, at one time, had an addiction," he said. "And he went to England and he withdrew that addiction Klein's comments struck me as incredibly disrespectful. More than that, if I or any other doctor revealed those kinds of intimate medical details publicly, we might be vulnerable to a charge of violating federal health privacy laws, a punishable offense.

These laws stem from 1990s legislation known as the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act or HIPAA. Basically, the law forbids medical professionals from disclosing health information unless a patient provides consent to do so. Among other things, HIPAA is the reason that your doctor can't fax a letter to you or transfer your records to another doctor without your filling out permission forms.

What's made HIPAA particularly visible -- and health professionals especially paranoid about it -- are recent stories of violations of celebrity health cases. In 2007, 27 New York Hospital employees were suspended for peeking at George Clooney's medical records after he had a motorcycle accident, as CNN reported. More recently, according to the Los Angeles Times, a UCLA Medical Center employee was disciplined for leaking Farrah Fawcett's (remember her?) records to the National Enquirer.

In the shadow of the Fawcett story, it struck me as bizarre that Klein (who is himself on staff at UCLA) went public about Jackson. What made it even more unusual was that on June 30, Klein's attorney, Richard Charnley, released a statement requesting privacy that directly referenced HIPAA:
http://www.salon.com/env/vital_signs/2009/07/13/dr_arnold_klein/

Kathlb

07-14-2009, 07:55 AM

*Respectful Snip*

In the shadow of the Fawcett story, it struck me as bizarre that Klein (who is himself on staff at UCLA) went public about Jackson[/B]. What made it even more unusual was that on June 30, Klein's attorney, Richard Charnley, released a statement requesting privacy that directly referenced HIPAA:
http://www.salon.com/env/vital_signs/2009/07/13/dr_arnold_klein/

Thank you for posting that aproudmom. I think sometimes we get so wrapped up in following and wanting all of the news we can get in a specific case, that we almost forget that basic rules of confidentiality should be followed at all costs. If it were me or my family member that was being discussed and their MD went on television and the net to share private info concerning their treatment, I would be incensed! Thanks for the reminder.

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 08:05 AM

I agree with you but in reality it is very much the opposite. Doctors do not practice their profession uninfluenced by motives of profit at all. They make profit by prescribing drugs. You do not need drugs to heal in many cases. But doctors and others working in this field feel forced to, keeping their job and making money is more important to them than doing the right thing. imo

well maybe they will if they are held accountable..I worked in admissions in a hospital and had to fire co-workers for releasing that a certain patient was in our hospital..and the HIPPA law boy o boy did we get hours of training..and feelings I know they do not always do as they should I had a doctor in my town who could not keep his hands of young women he was turned in and his license was removed finally and he was just a old guy looking for a young girl...I also worked with a wonderful Doctor in the ER he became addicted to meds and one day ended his life he was the best doctor hard working and so kind and loving to everyone and would watch for people who he may think was over medicating..well I know why now deep down he was living it..and I hate he is gone and such a young age...but I know they do not go by the codes..but maybe we should push harder for them to..

Healing is a very powerful word alot of times you may need something to get you through your healing process..some may not but there is nothing wrong with someone needed help with medication maybe not for a long period but personally I do know sometimes it is life or death it just depends on what got you in that place Abuse, PTS, RAPE, Domestic violence, mental conditions, physical conditions, Depression Anxiety..and I am in no way talking about this crap that had no business in a home..I am talking about the pain meds anxiety and depression medications..seeking help is the main thing it should be required in some situations

aproudmom

07-14-2009, 08:26 AM

I defend any man or woman who was persecuted because they had a horrifying skin disorder and was heckled by those who are/were ignorant and media sheep.

imo

Wonderful post and I agree GB
BTW for being called someone who knows MJ and not just a poster boy you sure do have alot of Posts: 12,862 :wink: sorry had to say it I got a laugh out of that other post about you sounding like someone who knew MJ...:biggrin:

ish

07-14-2009, 08:26 AM

Wouldn't that be easy to confirm with the rental agency? I think LaToya is also reporting that 2 million in cash and jewelry was also missing from the rented home.

Do you remember right after he died, someone called a sibling and asked where he kept the money and stuff in the house?

If he had 2 million in cash in the house, why did he owe the pharmacy 100k? I would take everything LaToya says with a BIG grain of salt. She has flip flipped on just about every story she has ever told. Suddenly it's all a conspiracy to kill her brother. Sorry I don't buy it. He wanted those drugs and he found someone to supply them. He knew darn well they were dangerous, if they weren't he wouldn't have had to go to the lengths he did to get them. He thought he was special and he used his celebrity and money to get what he wanted. Yes the doctors were wrong and will most likely be charged in some way, but most of the blame has to be put on MJ himself, no one forced him to take any of those drugs. It seems like a lot of posters are suggesting MJ had no responsibility for his death at all, that he was an innocent victim and that is far from the truth. IMO

vonna

07-14-2009, 08:38 AM

If he had 2 million in cash in the house, why did he owe the pharmacy 100k? I would take everything LaToya says with a BIG grain of salt. She has flip flipped on just about every story she has ever told. Suddenly it's all a conspiracy to kill her brother. Sorry I don't buy it. He wanted those drugs and he found someone to supply them. He knew darn well they were dangerous, if they weren't he wouldn't have had to go to the lengths he did to get them. He thought he was special and he used his celebrity and money to get what he wanted. Yes the doctors were wrong and will most likely be charged in some way, but most of the blame has to be put on MJ himself, no one forced him to take any of those drugs. It seems like a lot of posters are suggesting MJ had no responsibility for his death at all, that he was an innocent victim and that is far from the truth. IMO

Well stated. I totally agree.