Murder or Accident

[Mr_JaBob]

Hello everyone,

to make a long story short my uncle in law was killed about 3 years ago in what the local police ruled a (Personal Injury Accident) PIA. now.. the detective that was called to the scene was called in off his vacation and had closed the case that night. His Ex-wife who he divorced 3 days prior to that preceded to illegally collect $111,000 from an insurance policy the estate at that time did not know about. When they were divorced the house was protested by the ex at the last minute and the judge ruled for it to be settled at a later date. By the time that date came he was already dead and she showed up at court trying to make it look as if he were still alive and just did not show up, so that it would default to her since he wasn't there. We found out about the court date and had the probate lawyer there and the house was then turned over to probate for ruling with the estate. There are MANY more strange things about this case and me and the family would really appreciate some other opinions. We have made a web site www.gaylordgenaw.com (i dunno if this is against the rules??) most of the legal documents (autopsy, Police Reports, 2 PI Reports, and more) are there. We'd love to here your opinions. Please let us know

God Bless
Bob

[Cornblossom]

I'd get a lawyer..statutes of limitations may be running out on things if there is anything. I'm sorry for your loss.

[lite]

hello i am gaylords neice i have started a web site and message board on the web site there you will find what the family has on this. There is the autopsy, autopsy photos, photos of the car and the scene, legal documents, police reports, private investagative reports hired by the family and much more. This is a work in progress and the site is updated at least once a week. What the family needs is a good legal eye and someone to look at this case. We need a lab to test clothing we have found at the scene. We also need a non bias medical examiner to tell te family how gaylords body could have ended up in the condition it was in, the car having no blood, hair, skin in it, the seat being all the way forward gaylords body would never fit behind the wheel, there are so many unanswered questions and we have no local help. Any help will be appreached . Thank you



please refer to www.gaylordgenaw.com for information on this case

[withay]

I looked at some of the info (not the pix, I have a weak stomach) and it certainly sounds questionable. The problem is "proving it". This may be one of those cases that gets a conviction years down the line.
As far as I know, there is not a statute of limitations on murder anywhere in the USA.
Good Luck and sorry your family is going through this.

[annalyzer]

How was your uncle supposed to have received his injuries? From the car rolling over him? Was there blood and bits of flesh on the outside of the car?

[lite]

The police told the family that he was ejected out of the side window, but the car never landed,rolled ect on him. No blood nothing on under or in the car. No airbag dust on or in any cuts, no glass on or in any cuts. his arm was almost torn off and his lungs and heart exposed. He had 21 broken bones, that included his fumer bone and a widely separation\fracture of the knee his pelvis. His neck had a total seperation and both shoulders were dislocated. There were lacerations of the brain, heart, liver and spleen, aorta, pulmonary artery and veins. There are wat too many to list everything.

the funeral home wanted the family to have a closed casket but my father refused and it took days to sew gaylord up do the embalming fluid would not leak. they did the best they could but gaylord didnt look like himself


Cindy has told multiple stories on what happened that night and who found her, who she talked to, how and why she got out of the car, not calling 911 but alaska, ohio, my brother and meny other calls wild walking down the road then changing that to just 2 calls, her claim of walking down the road yet no one seeing her there. not the yale cop, the first responder who lived down that road and had to drive by her. not the 2 boys that road there bikes down to the scene no one. but her story changes again from her steping off the road when people were comming down the road to her actually talking to a emergency worker in a truck that told her gaylord was dead and again her story changes that the first time she was told he died was at the scene a fireman who was holding a flash light on foot. But then the police claim they were the ones that told her and she collapsed in the road at the scene. Once again there are too many stories to tell. I am trying to put everything i have online and my webmaster is doing the best he can to get the updates online so please be patient with us but i promise i will not stop until my family gets the answers they need to heal and regain their piece of mind. Thanks for reading


please refer to www.gaylordgenaw.com for info on this case

[lite]

one more thing i should mention this so called accdent happened on a country road no curves the road in good condition. the car left the road and hit a shallow ditch was lanched in the air and turned over and tumbled and came to rest in a bean field there were no trees rocks ect nothing gaylords body would have hit but the ground. the police say he was ejected and landed thats it but there is unexplained brusing and injuries the car was dented and such but in my opnion dont really look bad for a roll over what do you think? pitcures are on the website


please refer to www.gaylordgenaw.com for more info on this case

[Cornblossom]

I looked at some of the info (not the pix, I have a weak stomach) and it certainly sounds questionable. The problem is "proving it". This may be one of those cases that gets a conviction years down the line.
As far as I know, there is not a statute of limitations on murder anywhere in the USA.
Good Luck and sorry your family is going through this.No,there isn't a statute of limitations on murder,but there is in filing documents,certain degrees of homicide,etc etc.

[lite]

Thank you cornblossom and i will check out what needs to be done. Its things like this the family needs to know so we can keep moving forward. I myself have never been in a situation like this and have no clue on how to go about it. If you have any other information that can help please let me know.

[Cornblossom]

Did anyone ever wonder why his jeans were undone? Did you ever contact the insurance company...maybe they'd investigate for fraud?

[Cornblossom]

How did he get ejected from the car....it looks as tho all windows are up,doors are closed and the windshield is still intact? I would definately have it reinvestigated if at all possible. Good luck!

[Cornblossom]

I wondered the same thing. In one of the photos it looks like the belt was undone not torn.and they are unzipped.....in one photo where the black strip is hiding the "manhood"...you can see blood on his underwear.

[Cornblossom]

When I was a kid we lived by railroad tracks and a car got hit. When we got to the car the young man was on the road. He was alive and his injuries were not as bad as this mans. I just don't get how these injuries would have been inflicted if not by the accident. Also the statement that he bled out in 7 seconds and there seems to be minimal blood around his body.When I was 16,my boyfriend was killed in a car accident....he was in the backseat and was half in and half out of the car as it rolled up a ditch embankment into a cornfield. Each time the car rolled it rolled on him and he didn't look this bad. This man's injuries-IMO-are not consistant with this accident. And being ejected...I don't see how with the doors closed,windows up,and windshield intact.

[incidentally]

When I was a kid we lived by railroad tracks and a car got hit. When we got to the car the young man was on the road. He was alive and his injuries were not as bad as this mans. I just don't get how these injuries would have been inflicted if not by the accident. Also the statement that he bled out in 7 seconds and there seems to be minimal blood around his body.

Hi stptheracket,

I'm confused by the part I have put in bold. The autopsy picture where it shows his organs in his chest exposed would lead me to believe he certainly could and would have bled out very quickly. What I don't understand is the lack of blood in the vehicle and/or around the body as well as the lack of airbag dust on the body.

[Cornblossom]

Hi stptheracket,

I'm confused by the part I have put in bold. The autopsy picture where it shows his organs in his chest exposed would lead me to believe he certainly could and would have bled out very quickly. What I don't understand is the lack of blood in the vehicle and/or around the body as well as the lack of airbag dust on the body.
ITA.....what caused the injuries to the upper torso? There was nothing inside the car that I noticed that would have caused such an injury,where is the blood? Too many questions and not enough answers.

[lite]

Did anyone ever wonder why his jeans were undone? Did you ever contact the insurance company...maybe they'd investigate for fraud?

Yes the family questioned the pants and shirt one the pants being pulled down and the shirt being pulled up this didnt make sense the zipper in the jeans was torn open this shirt was shredded diagonally and blood soaked. The jeans have a tear on the thigh and a piece of his thigh was missing ripped off but was not found on the car or in the car. The insurance company will not help because they are afraid they will have to pay the money again to the estate so they are fighting the family.

we have all the clothes he was wearing that night and we found a white shirt on the road the next day it looks to have a white powder something like cornstarch on it it sparkles in the sunlight the powder falls off the shirt very easy its is also torn just like gaylords was.

[incidentally]

The air bag dust I think can be explained by the car going airborne and by the time it hit and air bags deploying he was already ejected from the vehicle. I just don't get the lack of blood on the vehicle. There was nothing on the car, not a hair not a drop of blood, no tissue nothing. How did he get so torn up hitting sand? The bean plants around him don't even look disturbed. Seems he would have rolled and would have bean plants tangled up around him, or at least be coverd in soil.

Got it. Maybe he wasn't even in the vehicle. This whole situation makes no sense. Many things do not add up.

[lite]

His injuries seem so extreme for the condition of the car. I just don't see how he ended up in the condition he was in from landing in a field that looks very sandy. What are your family's thoughts?


If you look at the car pics you will see ont he passanger side in the frount fender by the tire a sizeable dent that looks like a place where he may have hit , the windshield is caved inward and looks like a elbow may have hit it. Our family thinks he was the one that got out of the car and she took off down the road turned around and ran him over. What happened before this is unknowen but i have asked doctors and they have stated that if he bled out that fast he should not have brused and his body have alot of brusing.

The fact that they were divorced and 3 days later hes dead and she is the only one with him. When she was questioned at the divorce the judge asked if cindy wanted her maiden name back and her answer was no. Why maybe so she could do everything she has done with the estate and house and telling the police they were back together she lived in Ohio 8 days before he died her address was in Ohio.

The family don't know for sure what happened that night we would like to know we would like to have answers but no one will help us i am hopeing that the internet will be be a sorse where we can find experts that can tell us the answers we seek.

[Cornblossom]

If you look at the car pics you will see ont he passanger side in the frount fender by the tire a sizeable dent that looks like a place where he may have hit , the windshield is caved inward and looks like a elbow may have hit it. Our family thinks he was the one that got out of the car and she took off down the road turned around and ran him over. What happened before this is unknowen but i have asked doctors and they have stated that if he bled out that fast he should not have brused and his body have alot of brusing.

The fact that they were divorced and 3 days later hes dead and she is the only one with him. When she was questioned at the divorce the judge asked if cindy wanted her maiden name back and her answer was no. Why maybe so she could do everything she has done with the estate and house and telling the police they were back together she lived in Ohio 8 days before he died her address was in Ohio.

The family don't know for sure what happened that night we would like to know we would like to have answers but no one will help us i am hopeing that the internet will be be a sorse where we can find experts that can tell us the answers we seek.I think I'd contact TV shows such as "Dateline", "20/20", tell them my story,show my proof and ask for their help...maybe if they think you have a case they will either help you or tell you to drop it.

[Mr_JaBob]

Got it. Maybe he wasn't even in the vehicle. This whole situation makes no sense. Many things do not add up.

Thank you all for your great replies. keep the questions and opinions comeing. incidentally you are thinking along the lines of our opinions there are so many things that just smell fishy about this whole thing and you dont even know the half of them yet. i dont get a lot of time to reply but lite, my mother in law will do her best to answer everyones questions.

[GoldBug]

Yes the family questioned the pants and shirt one the pants being pulled down and the shirt being pulled up this didnt make sense the zipper in the jeans was torn open this shirt was shredded diagonally and blood soaked. The jeans have a tear on the thigh and a piece of his thigh was missing ripped off but was not found on the car or in the car. The insurance company will not help because they are afraid they will have to pay the money again to the estate so they are fighting the family.

we have all the clothes he was wearing that night and we found a white shirt on the road the next day it looks to have a white powder something like cornstarch on it it sparkles in the sunlight the powder falls off the shirt very easy its is also torn just like gaylords was.

Sounds like the air bag "dust" to me

Talcum powder or corn starch is used to line the inside of the air bag and is released from the air bag as it is opened.
http://www.answers.com/topic/airbag

[Details]

Sounds very suspicious. One thing to remember though - if he was ejected (and I don't currently see how) - you cannot compare his injuries to anyone injured in a car crash who stayed in the car - your car is very well designed to protect you. Once he's out, you can expect all kinds of injuries, depending on the manner of ejection - anything from nothing at all (if ejected close to the ground), to a huge amount of catastrophic injuries if thrown into the air.

The ex seems to be a money grubber - but that's not enough proof - that can be coincidence. The forensics will prove this case to get it to trial, not so much her actions (unless any of them show a forsight of his death).

[lite]

I haven't read the site, yet. But, wouldn't the attorneys for GG know he was dead before the court date? They are officers of the court. So are the attorneys for the ex. So is the Judge.

:confused:

very good question and i will try to explain
gaylord had a divorce attorney his name was jame pratt when the divorce was granted the judge (adair) let cindy argue( she had no attorney at this time) that the house was in her and gaylords name and that she had the right to half (even though the divorce was in default, cindy didnt answer her part)so the house was to be settled at a later date and the divorce was granted gaylord getting everything in the house. they were divorced on the 3rd of july 2006 on the 6th of july 2006 gaylord dies and his oldest son(not cindys son but from gaylords first marage) hired james pratt 3 days after his father died thinking james pratt would know how to handle the house problem and to file probate. mr pratt never filed probate until dec 2006 this is when gaylord jr recieved his papers for head of the estate. then pratt does nothing while cindy is cleaning out the house ect. jr then fires pratt and hires heyboer mean while cindy has hired dave black as her attorney and he files a motion for the house to be settled in judge adairs court but leaves out the fact that gaylord is dead (this is 7 months after gaylord died) and then black sends one of his assistants to court on feb 12, 2007 and they act like gaylords still alive but not showing up to court leaving cindy to gain ownership of the house by default. I seen the court date online and contacted mr heyboer and he shows up in court presents a death certificate and adair sends the house to probate court to decide who owns what intrest in the home. this is on the web site under house transcripts and divorce transcripts


by this time feb 2007 cindy owes the estate $68,340. 46 and the house was listed for 70,000.00 if cindy would have acomplished her deception of gaylord being alive and the ownership being hers by way of default then she ould have walked away with all the money and never paid the estate a penny.


hope this help you to understand a little better thanks for posting

for more info on this case please refer to gaylordgenaw.com

[lite]

Sounds very suspicious. One thing to remember though - if he was ejected (and I don't currently see how) - you cannot compare his injuries to anyone injured in a car crash who stayed in the car - your car is very well designed to protect you. Once he's out, you can expect all kinds of injuries, depending on the manner of ejection - anything from nothing at all (if ejected close to the ground), to a huge amount of catastrophic injuries if thrown into the air.

The ex seems to be a money grubber - but that's not enough proof - that can be coincidence. The forensics will prove this case to get it to trial, not so much her actions (unless any of them show a forsight of his death).


i agree the family just want answers to these questions but we have no one here that has the answers. we need outside help a medical examiner and forensic expert someone to look at this and tell the family how this could have happened

[lite]

Sounds like the air bag "dust" to me

Talcum powder or corn starch is used to line the inside of the air bag and is released from the air bag as it is opened.
http://www.answers.com/topic/airbag



yes me too but the powder was not found on gaylords clothes just the white shirt that was found the next day there is a pic of the shirt on the web site



please refer to www.gaylordgenaw.com for more info on this case

[dkny]

IMO, this guy was not driving this vehicle and the injuries seem extreme for the accident. IMO it looks like he was hit by the car went into the windshield and was then thrown off the car @ a high rate of speed. The windshield looks like someone hit the windshield from outside not came from inside. JMHO

[Shameonme]

IMO, this guy was not driving this vehicle and the injuries seem extreme for the accident. IMO it looks like he was hit by the car went into the windshield and was then thrown off the car @ a high rate of speed. The windshield looks like someone hit the windshield from outside not came from inside. JMHO


That what I also see. When I seen the car though its more than clear it was in some kind of bad accident but that windshield was broken from the outside. The mans injuries on his face could of been caused by hitting that windshield IMO. I have not read everything yet but was glass in his face when they did the Autopsy? When I first seen his face it looked as if he had been beaten ed to death. It also appears to me as if he was laid out on that area or as you say he rolled off the hood onto the ground. Why would LE and the Coroner all conspire a cover up is what I wonder.

[lite]

That what I also see. When I seen the car though its more than clear it was in some kind of bad accident but that windshield was broken from the outside. The mans injuries on his face could of been caused by hitting that windshield IMO. I have not read everything yet but was glass in his face when they did the Autopsy? When I first seen his face it looked as if he had been beaten ed to death. It also appears to me as if he was laid out on that area or as you say he rolled off the hood onto the ground. Why would LE and the Coroner all conspire a cover up is what I wonder.


there was no glass in any wounds of gaylords this is mind numbing to me with all the lacerations he suffered.

as for the cover-up this area is knowen for questionable deaths
there are many cases the sheriff dept has botched up then coverered their butts on. one for example was a so called "suicide" this young man was visiting a neighbor and then shot himself in the neighbors home with the neighbors gun. it took the family a long time but that case has been reopened refer to www.robsimpsoncase.com. The genaw family found out the detective in gaylords case was called in from his vacation and in my opinion he rushed this and went back on his vacation. but thats my opinion because everything rolls down from this one detecive. the case was closed the night of gaylords death even though there are oblivious things that are questionable.

[incidentally]

lite,

You said it was told to you that your uncle bled out in approximately 7 seconds which would make sense given the mortal wound to his chest cavity. Was there sufficient blood at the scene of the accident, where his body was found to confirm that?

The amount of injuries, the placement of the injuries are suspect to me. Also, you stated the windows were closed, a/c on. I could make better sense of the chest and arm injuries if the window had been open. Is there proof that window was closed. I know many times I will run my air while I have the a/c on, especially if I'm smoking a cigarette.

Are there pictures of the actual scene of the accident? Pictures that show where the body was in relation to the car?

As far as his ex-wife, I think your family needs to separate criminal from civil matters, otherwise you are just muddying the waters, so to speak.

Regards,

tally

[incidentally]

Never mind, Lite. I just found the crash scene photos.

ETA: I find no copious amounts of blood in those pictures. Are those the only pictures taken?

[lite]

lite,

You said it was told to you that your uncle bled out in approximately 7 seconds which would make sense given the mortal wound to his chest cavity. Was there sufficient blood at the scene of the accident, where his body was found to confirm that?

The amount of injuries, the placement of the injuries are suspect to me. Also, you stated the windows were closed, a/c on. I could make better sense of the chest and arm injuries if the window had been open. Is there proof that window was closed. I know many times I will run my air while I have the a/c on, especially if I'm smoking a cigarette.

Are there pictures of the actual scene of the accident? Pictures that show where the body was in relation to the car?

As far as his ex-wife, I think your family needs to separate criminal from civil matters, otherwise you are just muddying the waters, so to speak.

Regards,

tally


thanks for your questions and i will try to answer them as best as i can

1. i have asked my medical doctor “Doctors of Internal Medicine.” and he stated that gaylords aorta was cut in half and that the heart still beats and in his opinion gaylord bled out in 7 seconds as for the blood at the scene i have to say in my opinion there was not enough there but talking to my brother he thinks the blood went into the plowed ground. but the car has no blood in it his clothes were soked in blood but thats all i have on it other then the pictures that we optained from the sheriff department.


2 the windows were closed if you look at the car pitcures you will see in the weather stripping all the wy around the window here is glass the window was up or there would be no glass there. and gaylord was not a smoker he would not allow it in his caddy from anyone.


3. the pictures at the scene. The pitcures at the secen are the ones we have on the website you can see the emergency lights in the backround. There was no pitcures of the body v the car to show locations i wish there was.


4. i understand your thoughts on the civil v the criminal matters and i thought about this alot before putting it on the site. my reasoning was to show motive in my mind. when you add the fact the divorce was only 3 days after the death. the mention to dective patterson the night of the death if she had to trun over any property of gaylords to the genaw family. hiding the insurance check from her sons and stepsons all the time knowing she was excluded from claiming the money because of the divorce but did it anyway. all these things makes me question the death also.

[lite]

Did anyone ever check out any other vehicles. What about ex's brothers. I dont see how he could have been in or hit by his vehicle. No blood, tissue or hair in or on his car. If someone had taken his body to that spot there should have been foot prints. What if ex called her brother before the accident and he hit Gaylord they then crashed his car into the feild. Did the find any shoe prints or did they even look?


no mention of any shoe prints anywhere in any reports i dont think the looked for anything that may have led them to anything but a accdent

yes i totally understand your questions about the car and no sign of gaylord being in that car or hit? This is exactly why the family has questions.

[lite]

Never mind, Lite. I just found the crash scene photos.

ETA: I find no copious amounts of blood in those pictures. Are those the only pictures taken?


sorry i was repling and didnt see this

[kitty1182]

Never mind, Lite. I just found the crash scene photos.

ETA: I find no copious amounts of blood in those pictures. Are those the only pictures taken?

Looks to me like he was beaten..:sad:

ETA..I was looking for more blood inside the car too.

[lite]

Looks to me like he was beaten..:sad:

ETA..I was looking for more blood inside the car too.

yes i agree and the family has thought something else happened that night we have allways felt that but we cant prove it. thats what makes our search for experts so inportant

thanks for your comment and please check back i will be giving notice of updates on the web site on this forum also

[TBIBeg]

yes i agree and the family has thought something else happened that night we have allways felt that but we cant prove it. thats what makes our search for experts so inportant

thanks for your comment and please check back i will be giving notice of updates on the web site on this forum also


Lite I sent you a PM

[kitty1182]

yes i agree and the family has thought something else happened that night we have allways felt that but we cant prove it. thats what makes our search for experts so inportant

thanks for your comment and please check back i will be giving notice of updates on the web site on this forum also

I will keep checking back..I hope you find something out...

[angellaw]

Looks to me like he was beaten..:sad:

ETA..I was looking for more blood inside the car too.

I was just going to post the exact same thing kitty. He looks like he was beaten and IMO I think he was dumped there and his car was set up somehow to make it look like he was in an accident...I'm not up on the methods of doing such a thing, but I think there are people out there that know how to make anything look like an accident.... again MOO

[kitty1182]

I was just going to post the exact same thing kitty. He looks like he was beaten and IMO I think he was dumped there and his car was set up somehow to make it look like he was in an accident...I'm not up on the methods of doing such a thing, but I think there are people out there that know how to make anything look like an accident.... again MOO

I agree...You would think there would be a lot of blood on windshield and steering wheel and such...It does look like he was beaten and it was made to look like he wrecked...IMO

[annalyzer]

If you look at the car pics you will see ont he passanger side in the frount fender by the tire a sizeable dent that looks like a place where he may have hit , the windshield is caved inward and looks like a elbow may have hit it. Our family thinks he was the one that got out of the car and she took off down the road turned around and ran him over. What happened before this is unknowen but i have asked doctors and they have stated that if he bled out that fast he should not have brused and his body have alot of brusing.

.


Even if she ran him over there should be blood and bits of flesh on the car.

[Lyndilu1]

Looks to me like he was beaten..:sad:

ETA..I was looking for more blood inside the car too.

I think so too Kitty. Doesn't look like a car wreck victim.

[desmom]

I am very sorry for your Uncle's tragic death. It is hard when a loved one dies unexpectedly.

I am not surprised by the lack of blood on or inside the car. LE's reports state the car was traveling at 70.37 mph on a graveled roadway and he was ejected from the car. Almost 6 weeks after the accident the investigator noted tire tracks and the first contact point were still visible in the ditch and field.

I am confused by the statement in the lst post that states "illegally collect $111,000 from an insurance policy the estate at that time did not know about". Was this a life insurance policy? Was she listed as the primary beneficiary?


jmo

[angellaw]

I agree...You would think there would be a lot of blood on windshield and steering wheel and such...It does look like he was beaten and it was made to look like he wrecked...IMO


ITA...did you see the one pic with that big hunk of skin missing from his face area...where did it go???...not any on the car...not around him...not inside the car????

I smell something funky around this case.

God Bless the family...I sure hope the get some resolution that makes some king of scence.

[angellaw]

yes i agree and the family has thought something else happened that night we have allways felt that but we cant prove it. thats what makes our search for experts so important

thanks for your comment and please check back i will be giving notice of updates on the web site on this forum also

I am so sad your family has to go through this. I was hit by a car..but there was very little blood around me as most of my injuries we internal. By the looks of the pics, I would think there should have been more blood around his head at the very least.

I will pray your family finds the proper people to help you find the truth.

[lite]

I am very sorry for your Uncle's tragic death. It is hard when a loved one dies unexpectedly.

I am not surprised by the lack of blood on or inside the car. LE's reports state the car was traveling at 70.37 mph on a graveled roadway and he was ejected from the car. Almost 6 weeks after the accident the investigator noted tire tracks and the first contact point were still visible in the ditch and field.

I am confused by the statement in the lst post that states "illegally collect $111,000 from an insurance policy the estate at that time did not know about". Was this a life insurance policy? Was she listed as the primary beneficiary?


jmo


yes it was a accdental death policy attached to the morage. and she was listed beneficiary at the time the house was bought. What makes it illegal is the divorce that was finalized 3 days pryor to his death. Cindy was present in court and it was explained to her that any insurance policys that named her as beneficiary was over turned and when she was asked if she understood this her answer was yes. but then she puts in a claim to the insurance company and it was cleared and she recieves the check cashes it and leaves state. She did this knowing she was not the legal beneficiary.




as for the lack of blood i think i should clear something up. the car was not looked at by a forensics person. just by the family and police with a naked eye. i was woundering if you could tell me more about the lack of blood your opinion is very inportant to me . If there is some logical explanation i would like to hear it so the family has some answers thanks for posting and trying to help us

[incidentally]

I am very sorry for your Uncle's tragic death. It is hard when a loved one dies unexpectedly.

I am not surprised by the lack of blood on or inside the car. LE's reports state the car was traveling at 70.37 mph on a graveled roadway and he was ejected from the car. Almost 6 weeks after the accident the investigator noted tire tracks and the first contact point were still visible in the ditch and field.

I am confused by the statement in the lst post that states "illegally collect $111,000 from an insurance policy the estate at that time did not know about". Was this a life insurance policy? Was she listed as the primary beneficiary?


jmo

Look at this picture depicting where each "gouge" (where car hit ground while flipping in the air) and where the body was found. It would appear to me, it was during the fourth gouge the body would have been ejected.

How could there not be blood visible to the naked eye, in the car, given that much trauma introduced before he was "ejected" from the car".

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/PR02/035.html

[desmom]

yes it was a accdental death policy attached to the morage. and she was listed beneficiary at the time the house was bought. What makes it illegal is the divorce that was finalized 3 days pryor to his death. Cindy was present in court and it was explained to her that any insurance policys that named her as beneficiary was over turned and when she was asked if she understood this her answer was yes. but then she puts in a claim to the insurance company and it was cleared and she recieves the check cashes it and leaves state. She did this knowing she was not the legal beneficiary.




as for the lack of blood i think i should clear something up. the car was not looked at by a forensics person. just by the family and police with a naked eye. i was woundering if you could tell me more about the lack of blood your opinion is very inportant to me . If there is some logical explanation i would like to hear it so the family has some answers thanks for posting and trying to help us


Thank you for the explanation on the insurance. I would think a good lawyer could straighten that out.

I am not an forensics expert and can only speak from personal experience when I was an EMT many many moons ago and I apologize if it is upsetting.

During a rollover, it is not uncommon for the doors to fly open, hood and trunk lids to be ripped off the car or seat position mechanisms to fail.

IMO, he may have experienced some bumps, bruises and maybe even a broken bone when the car hit the ditch. I think the trauma came when he became a projectile from the car. He was probably ejected from the car during one of the first rollovers. He would have been moving at the same speed or pretty close to the same speed as the car. His injuries appear to be very similar to what I witnessed in motorcycle accidents... massive blunt force trauma and road rash.

Like many others on this board, I am a true crime follower. I can only speak my opinion based on what I saw in the pictures and the reports. I am so sorry.

jmo

[desmom]

Look at this picture depicting where each "gouge" (where car hit ground while flipping in the air) and where the body was found. It would appear to me, it was during the fourth gouge the body would have been ejected.

How could there not be blood visible to the naked eye, in the car, given that much trauma introduced before he was "ejected" from the car".

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/PR02/035.html

He was drunk.
http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/autopsy/001.html

jmo

[incidentally]

He was drunk.
http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/autopsy/001.html

jmo

Hi desmom,

Yes, he was drunk but I'm not sure how that explains no blood or tissue being present in the car much less seemingly finally being thrown from the car on the fourth "rollover".

Also notice how close the seat is to the steering wheel and how low the steering wheel is. Apparently neither were misplaced because of the accident. It would appear to me, a man his size would not be sitting that close nor have the steering wheel that low. His knees would have been up near his ears.

[desmom]

Hi desmom,

Yes, he was drunk but I'm not sure how that explains no blood or tissue being present in the car much less seemingly finally being thrown from the car on the fourth "rollover".

Also notice how close the seat is to the steering wheel and how low the steering wheel is. Apparently neither were misplaced because of the accident. It would appear to me, a man his size would not be sitting that close nor have the steering wheel that low. His knees would have been up near his ears.

Have you ever known anyone drunk, fell and should have been injured, but was not?

I saw pretty strange things in rollover/cartwheeling car accidents. One that really sticks out in my mind is the winter coat of a toddler sticking out of an engine compartment of a car that had came to rest on it's roof. This car rolled 3 times according to witness statements. A man walked up to us and said the coat belonged to his granddaughter and she was not with them. This man was the driver. He is the only one that walked away from the car without any injuries. He was a wearing a seat belt. The other 3 had been thrown from the car. The only door open was the passenger front door.

How can you be so sure the seat and steering wheel are in the same position they were in before the accident?

jmo

[incidentally]

Have you ever known anyone drunk, fell and should have been injured, but was not?

I saw pretty strange things in rollover/cartwheeling car accidents. One that really sticks out in my mind is the winter coat of a toddler sticking out of an engine compartment of a car that had came to rest on it's roof. This car rolled 3 times according to witness statements. A man walked up to us and said the coat belonged to his granddaughter and she was not with them. This man was the driver. He is the only one that walked away from the car without any injuries. He was a wearing a seat belt. The other 3 had been thrown from the car. The only door open was the passenger front door.

How can you be so sure the seat and steering wheel are in the same position they were in before the accident?

jmo

According to what I read on the accident reports as well as the pictures is why it is my belief they were not re-positioned. Also, something else stood out to me. All windows and car doors were reported closed (side and passenger) and the only way he could have been ejected was through the windshield. The windshield is imploded toward the inside of the car, not positioned as if a body had been ejected. Also, no glass was found on or in his body upon autopsy.

[desmom]

According to what I read on the accident reports as well as the pictures is why it is my belief they were not re-positioned. Also, something else stood out to me. All windows and car doors were reported closed (side and passenger) and the only way he could have been ejected was through the windshield. The windshield is imploded toward the inside of the car, not positioned as if a body had been ejected. Also, no glass was found on or in his body upon autopsy.

Windows: http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR01/002.html The windows had glass at the edges, indicating that they had been up at the time the accident occurred, but had broken during the collision.

no window in passenger door http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/pix/carpix/Car08.html

buckled windshield with hole on driver's side http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/pix/carpix/Car06.html

Or the door was opened and shut by the force of the rolling/cartwheeling car.

jmo

[incidentally]

Windows: http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR01/002.html The windows had glass at the edges, indicating that they had been up at the time the accident occurred, but had broken during the collision.

no window in passenger door http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/pix/carpix/Car08.html

buckled windshield with hole on driver's side http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/pix/carpix/Car06.html

Or the door was opened and shut by the force of the rolling/cartwheeling car.

jmo

Oh, I didn't see that page. That does change things, doesn't it. It still doesn't seem to account for lack of glass on his clothes, in or on his body. It does however change the chances of ejection.

Thank you for pointing that out.

[Cornblossom]

Even drunk people bleed,and the way his injuries are,there should be blood in and around that car if he was drunk or sober. imo. Google forensic specialists and contact them ALL and request their help...you might get lucky and one will do it for free or a reduced rate.

[desmom]

Even drunk people bleed,and the way his injuries are,there should be blood in and around that car if he was drunk or sober. imo. Google forensic specialists and contact them ALL and request their help...you might get lucky and one will do it for free or a reduced rate.

If they were closed injuries, there would be no blood.

jmo

[kitty1182]

Even drunk people bleed,and the way his injuries are,there should be blood in and around that car if he was drunk or sober. imo. Google forensic specialists and contact them ALL and request their help...you might get lucky and one will do it for free or a reduced rate.

I agree..By the looks of him, there should have been some blood..MO

[incidentally]

If they were closed injuries, there would be no blood.

jmo

Closed injuries? His chest was ripped open, and he had multiple open wounds on his body. His face alone was all but sheered off on one side.

Just when I think it makes sense, it doesn't.

[kitty1182]

If they were closed injuries, there would be no blood.

jmo

Did you look at the pics....Anything but closed...Looks like a tire iron was took to his head...

[Citygirl]

yes it was a accdental death policy attached to the morage. and she was listed beneficiary at the time the house was bought. What makes it illegal is the divorce that was finalized 3 days pryor to his death. Cindy was present in court and it was explained to her that any insurance policys that named her as beneficiary was over turned and when she was asked if she understood this her answer was yes. but then she puts in a claim to the insurance company and it was cleared and she recieves the check cashes it and leaves state. She did this knowing she was not the legal beneficiary.




................................snipped........... ..................................


If someone designates a beneficiary to his life insurance..how can a judge change that..I've never heard of that before..
if your uncle wanted it changed, he should have changed it..

[angellaw]

He was drunk.
http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/autopsy/001.html

jmo


No direspect intended...but what does that have to do with the lack of blood around the body, in the car...etc...???

[angellaw]

................................snipped........... ..................................


If someone designates a beneficiary to his life insurance..how can a judge change that..I've never heard of that before..
if your uncle wanted it changed, he should have changed it..

ITA, it should have ben changed prior to the death..but it was only 3 days between the divorce and his death...lots of emotion going on during a divorce..he may have been waiting until it wasf inalized before chanign the beneficiary, especially if children were involved...which I am not possitive there were any...but if one is in a depression over the divorce.. and/or did not recall the motgage policy... persoanally can see where that could have been overlooked,

[lite]

Windows: http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR01/002.html The windows had glass at the edges, indicating that they had been up at the time the accident occurred, but had broken during the collision.

no window in passenger door http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/pix/carpix/Car08.html

buckled windshield with hole on driver's side http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/pix/carpix/Car06.html

Or the door was opened and shut by the force of the rolling/cartwheeling car.

jmo


the doors on that car locked when you put it in gear. no way did they open and shut during the car rolling. also if he rode the car accdent out and then was ejected then were is the airbag dust. the caddy had sensors all around it not just in the front end but in the door ect and 4 airbags were deployed. thank you for helping

[Citygirl]

ITA, it should have ben changed prior to the death..but it was only 3 days between the divorce and his death...lots of emotion going on during a divorce..he may have been waiting until it wasf inalized before chanign the beneficiary, especially if children were involved...which I am not possitive there were any...but if one is in a depression over the divorce.. and/or did not recall the motgage policy... persoanally can see where that could have been overlooked,


Hey sweetheart..OK..I see what you are sayin..but if this is what happened..she was still the beneficiary..he could have waited a week or a month or two months..she would have still been the beneficiary until he changed it..
if this was against the law somehow..the insurance company would have found her and taken her to court for the return of the money I would think..insurance companies don't mess around..

[lite]

Sad that no one else had contacted the insurance company - to let them know (at the time of the divorce) of a change in beneficiary. Did he, if fact, change the benefiiciary? Was his attorney supposed to do that? An attorney should be able to chase her down and get some of the money back - and certainly what she did must is illegal IF he had indeed changed the beneficiary. Would the judge finalizing the divorce take an interest?
In this day of tight LE bugets and crowded jails it may be hard to deal with it. I would be upset not to see her butt in jail.
Sorry, - I just read back to the 1st post. This may just have fallen between the cracks - and she could legally get it. The house thing wasn't settled on the day of the divorce. Would love to know what the judge says about it. Certainly worth following up on - though the money is probably long gone by now.


yes the judgment of the divorce states that she could not be the beneficiary. michigan law states that it has to be decided in the divorce.

the judgment was in favor of the estate and cindy had no right to the money and she knew it

the house was sent to probate court after she tryed to get a default judgment by leaving the fact out that gaylord was dead (the court date to settle the house was 5 months after gaylord died)

on the web site the legal documents are posted with judgements and criminal contempt charges

[lite]

Closed injuries? His chest was ripped open, and he had multiple open wounds on his body. His face alone was all but sheered off on one side.

Just when I think it makes sense, it doesn't.


yes i know i have been back and forth with this for years thats why i need the experts. it is hard to figure out and never makes sence

[lite]

................................snipped........... ..................................


If someone designates a beneficiary to his life insurance..how can a judge change that..I've never heard of that before..
if your uncle wanted it changed, he should have changed it..


and i understand this, but in michigan the divorce has to be final before you can make changes on money ect. you cant change titles, bank accounts, anything that the married couple had together. the fact that he was dead 3 days after the divorce and if he didnt want it changed then he would not have had that entered into judgment in the divorce

[Citygirl]

yes i know i have been back and forth with this for years thats why i need the experts. it is hard to figure out and never makes sence


I sure do admire you for spending so much time on the death of your uncle..he would be so proud of you..and I'm sure you have learned a lot too..my hat is off to you for being so interested in this after all this time..good luck to you and your family..


ETA: We were posting to each other at the same time.. thanks for the reply..

[lite]

I sure do admire you for spending so much time on the death of your uncle..he would be so proud of you..and I'm sure you have learned a lot too..my hat is off to you for being so interested in this after all this time..good luck to you and your family..


ETA: We were posting to each other at the same time.. thanks for the reply..



thank you i love my whole family but gaylord was very special. he had a laugh that would turn your blues into smiles. he had a way of making you feel very special and loved no matter what you have done in your life, and i know if the shoe was on the other foot and i was dead he would never give up on me and just let it go. i have been told that i should move on and just let it be but i cant my heart still hurts as much as the day he died.

[Citygirl]

There has to be some investigative TV show that would be interested in this..I would start and go to them all..CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, A & E..
Bill Kurtis maybe..

[NatalieB]

I've not read all the documents on the site, but briefly checked over them, including many of the photos. Crime scene photos don't bother me, it's knowing the intricate details that I have the problem with.

I'd certainly not 2nd guess those at the scene from the luxury of my living room, but I can tell you this much. My mother died in '94 by being hit by an automobile as she was crossing a road. I was told that EVERY bone in her entire body was broken with the exception of a bone in her right hand. I couldn't look at her initially, but my step father and my husband both did. Like your case, they too insisted upon an open casket (to my horror - but keep in mind, I only had my own visuals to go by at this point). I was asked to provide a photo of my mother so they could get her as close to herself as possible. The thought horrified me to no end and I admit, I was VERY upset that they were pushing for an open casket. Ultimately, they did a very good job and I'm glad they pushed to have it open as I think I'd still be hoping it weren't true, that somehow, someone else was in that casket.

In the end, my mother's injuries were NOTHING like the injuries of this man. I realize that every accident is different, but given the conditions of of the area you're talking about (my mom was on concrete and rock, not simply ground and she was flown thru the air), I find it hard to believe this story is entirely on the up and up.

BTW, my FIL just rolled over his minivan in I think it was January February. He did not have a seat belt on; he's a big guy and has a heart defibrillator in, so the seat belt really bothers him. His van rolled and he was ejected out the driver's side window. He was life flighted to the nearest trauma unit and it's been a long couple of months for him (he's getting up there in age), but he's now walking again. He didn't land on concrete or stone either, though. He simply landed on the ground too.

Again, one accident means nothing when compared to another, but I really think you should hire someone to reconstruct the accident. Someone trained should be able to sum it up in no time flat, IMO. That's where I'd start.

[kitty1182]

There has to be some investigative TV show that would be interested in this..I would start and go to them all..CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, A & E..
Bill Kurtis maybe..

Hi neighbor....That's a great idea!!!!

[desmom]

Closed injuries? His chest was ripped open, and he had multiple open wounds on his body. His face alone was all but sheered off on one side.

Just when I think it makes sense, it doesn't.

When? Before or after the aorta was lacerated?

As for the facial injuries...the only thing I have to go off is the pics posted. It is road rash and believe me the word rash is used very loosely. I have seen a lot worse.

jmo

[Cornblossom]

If they were closed injuries, there would be no blood.

jmoI take it you didn't look at the photos? there should have been blood and lots of it.

[desmom]

the doors on that car locked when you put it in gear. no way did they open and shut during the car rolling. also if he rode the car accdent out and then was ejected then were is the airbag dust. the caddy had sensors all around it not just in the front end but in the door ect and 4 airbags were deployed. thank you for helping

All electronic. Electronics fail when the battery loses connection.

IMO, he did not ride out the accident.

[Cornblossom]

There has to be some investigative TV show that would be interested in this..I would start and go to them all..CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, A & E..
Bill Kurtis maybe..
I agree....I'd even contact Geraldo if I had to and I can't stand Geraldo!

[desmom]

I take it you didn't look at the photos? there should have been blood and lots of it.

I did look at the photos, read the autopsy report, LE's reports and the private investigator's reports. I expressed my opinion.

[desmom]

No direspect intended...but what does that have to do with the lack of blood around the body, in the car...etc...???

It happens every day:

http://blog.nola.com/tpnorthshore/2008/09/driver_arrested_in_fatal_slide_1.html
A Slidell man who was allegedly drunk when he slammed his pickup into a car last week, killing its driver,...Drawdy was taken to Slidell Memorial Hospital with minor injuries...

http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=121
...sentenced 21-year-old Joshua Buckner to a combined 30 years in prison for three counts of aggravated DUI and five years for leaving the scene of an accident resulting in injury or death. Buckner then left the scene on foot, cut through a nearby wooded area and returned to the party, Bartlett said.

Back at the party, Buckner changed clothes and put mints in his mouth to disguise the smell of alcohol, Assistant District Attorney Frank Clark said. Buckner also confessed to fellow party-goers he had wrecked his vehicle, but made no mention of his injured friends, Clark said. He even planned to report his vehicle stolen to cover up his role in the crime, Clark said.

jmo

[lite]

All electronic. Electronics fail when the battery loses connection.

IMO, he did not ride out the accident.


this is true. but the radio was blasting in the field when the car laned and firefighters cut the battery cables in the field and we lost all the information that was in the black box the cadillac was a front wheel drive all eletric windows, seats, locks ect. he loved that car and babied it he hated to take it down dirt roads. its kind of ironic

[withay]

All electronic. Electronics fail when the battery loses connection.

IMO, he did not ride out the accident.

My doors automatically lock when the car is put in gear but they also automatically unlock when the ignition is cut off.

But I agree that the more I read, the more it seems he was not in the car. There just does not seem to be any evidence of how he got out of the car unless it was before the crash!

[lite]

When? Before or after the aorta was lacerated?

As for the facial injuries...the only thing I have to go off is the pics posted. It is road rash and believe me the word rash is used very loosely. I have seen a lot worse.

jmo


please look at the face photo 6th row last picture is there a whole above his eyes on his forhead looks to me to be a rectangular puncture it looks that way to me but i dont know that picture has bothered me for 3 years and in my opinion looks like he was hit with something but i dont know could i have your opinion please

[lite]

please look at the face photo 6th row last picture is there a whole above his eyes on his forhead looks to me to be a rectangular puncture it looks that way to me but i dont know that picture has bothered me for 3 years and in my opinion looks like he was hit with something but i dont know could i have your opinion please



the thing that gets me is his brain was lacerated (cut right) not just his brain but alot of his organs inside him were cut and punctured i understand bones breaking and puncturing organs but cuts i dont understand that maybe someone could help me understand that

[desmom]

please look at the face photo 6th row last picture is there a whole above his eyes on his forhead looks to me to be a rectangular puncture it looks that way to me but i dont know that picture has bothered me for 3 years and in my opinion looks like he was hit with something but i dont know could i have your opinion please

the thing that gets me is his brain was lacerated (cut right) not just his brain but alot of his organs inside him were cut and punctured i understand bones breaking and puncturing organs but cuts i dont understand that maybe someone could help me understand that

Those injuries could have been caused by flying debris from the car or debris in the field. His internal injuries were probably caused by the impact.

Hun, I am really sorry. It is so hard when a loved one passes and even more difficult when it is an unexpected death. I send prayers for you and your family and hope you can find the answers you are seeking.

Des ~

[Postergeist]

to Bob and lite-

is the vehicle still in the family's possession? Is it too late to have the interior dusted for fingerprints?

I was reading how you said the car seat, etc. appeared to be adjusted for someone that would be smaller than your uncle.

I will pass your site on to some people that may be able to help you.

My condolences in the loss of your family member.

[Lavinia]

the thing that gets me is his brain was lacerated (cut right) not just his brain but alot of his organs inside him were cut and punctured i understand bones breaking and puncturing organs but cuts i dont understand that maybe someone could help me understand that

Organs are often punctured and lacerated from broken bones. A broken bone can be sharp as a razor.

[Mr_JaBob]

i notice we were moved to a different section... i appologize to the moderators. i really thought open court sounded more pertinent.

[Lavinia]

This site has a ton of crime scene investigation techniques and their meanings. You might find some info here.

http://www.tncrimlaw.com/forensic/f_crimescene.html

[lite]

This site has a ton of crime scene investigation techniques and their meanings. You might find some info here.

http://www.tncrimlaw.com/forensic/f_crimescene.html



thank you I am checking it out.

someone asked about the car being available for fingerprints no its not it has been crushed by the towing company

[PatC]

This is definitely a disturbing story. I have only skimmed the information but here are some things that jump out at me.

1. Somewhere I read where LE opined that the victim was not wearing a seat belt and was thrown clear via a window. How when the windows are UP?

2. Doors automatically locked and power still on after the car came to rest (until cut by first responders) make it unlikely he was thrown out a door.

3. The white shirt... whose shirt is it? Did it fit the victim? Was the residue proven to be from the air bags?

4. IF the victim was truly thrown from the vehicle when it started tumbling, I can "buy" there not being any blood or tissue left in the car. IF the car didn't roll over him, there being no blood or tissue on the outside of the car either is feasible.

5. The rapid "bleed out" with little visible blood on the ground... could it be explained by INTERNAL bleeding?

Were any tests made to determine if he might have been dragged, perhaps behind a vehicle?

very disturbing indeed. Good luck to the family in finding answers.

[lite]

This is definitely a disturbing story. I have only skimmed the information but here are some things that jump out at me.

1. Somewhere I read where LE opined that the victim was not wearing a seat belt and was thrown clear via a window. How when the windows are UP?

2. Doors automatically locked and power still on after the car came to rest (until cut by first responders) make it unlikely he was thrown out a door.

3. The white shirt... whose shirt is it? Did it fit the victim? Was the residue proven to be from the air bags?

4. IF the victim was truly thrown from the vehicle when it started tumbling, I can "buy" there not being any blood or tissue left in the car. IF the car didn't roll over him, there being no blood or tissue on the outside of the car either is feasible.

5. The rapid "bleed out" with little visible blood on the ground... could it be explained by INTERNAL bleeding?

Were any tests made to determine if he might have been dragged, perhaps behind a vehicle?

very disturbing indeed. Good luck to the family in finding answers.

hello
i will try to help answer your questions


1. yes the windows here up but broken out when the car started tumbling is my opinion. if he was ejected and went through a window i would have to think there would be glass or airbag dust on him or in his cuts but nothing

2. yea i agree i dont think he went out the door


3. the family found the white shirt at he scene the next day. it was not gaylords shirt and looks to have in my opinion blood on it. we would like to get it tested to see just whats on it and if it is in fact blood and maybe whos blood? the shirt resembles gaylords he wore that night as it goes to the condition of it (shreadded like maybe somone was in a fight or something) i have contacted some labs ( thanks to the wounderfull people on this forum ) and I am waiting for a answer back will update with everyone as soon as i hear from them.


4. there was 200cc of liquid blood in what i understand was his lungs and 250 cc of bloos in his stomach i was told thats about a cup of blood in his body this is on page 5 and 6 of the autopsy report.


5 no tests were made at all the police closed the case the night of the crash and never questioned anything that looked odd or even obviously questionable

thanks for your help and please keep comming back and helping the family needs all the help we can get

[Mandysmom]

My condolences on the loss of your loved one. He looked like he was a really nice guy.

I hope you find the answers you are looking for and are able to finally get some peace of mind.

Is the Daniel Spitz listed as the M.E. the one who is the son (I think) of Werner Spitz?

[lite]

My condolences on the loss of your loved one. He looked like he was a really nice guy.

I hope you find the answers you are looking for and are able to finally get some peace of mind.

Is the Daniel Spitz listed as the M.E. the one who is the son (I think) of Werner Spitz?


yes he is i dont know the man personally but i googled him and Werner is his father .

here is another case were Mr Daniel Spitz was involved in

http://www.robsimpsoncase.com/marie_notes.pdf

[Mandysmom]

yes he is i dont know the man personally but i googled him and Werner is his father .

here is another case were Mr Daniel Spitz was involved in

http://www.robsimpsoncase.com/marie_notes.pdf
Thank you lite. I thought I had seen him on tv before but wasn't sure if he was the same one.

I didn't go into the photos on your site, but did try to read some of the documents. I wish I had some expert opinion to help you with, but I don't.

Hopefully, you will find someone who can be of help to find out what happened and give you some answers.

:sad:

[lite]

I wanted to ask about the screams heard by the witnesses. The witness said he was told it was just a passerby. Was this woman ever identified. I would imagine the police would have taken a witness statement from her as it sounds like whoever she is she was first on scene.



ok this is where it gets kind of weird to me the 911 callers hear a woman scream right, (they are next to the crash scene and watch the car flipping but not close enough to see any people just lights and stuff flying) but they dont see a car passing by the scene going either way, and how did the first responders find out it was a passer by? By the time they were there wasnt it being blocked off or could anybody just drive by. I know that it was blocked off that night but the explanation about the screams dont make any scence. Also gaylords son Jason kept telling everyone at the funeral that he heard his father die on the phone but if Cindy was walking down the road as she states then how could he ever have heard that? Gaylord did not have a cell phone but Cindy did. as for the police they never checked with any witnesses that night just cindy and her brother.

[lite]

I cannot believe that this thread is actually here. Why in the world are you coming on to a "message" board to ask "opinions" of people on a very serious legal issue? What are you thinking?

Go to the Legal Aid Society if you cannot afford an attorney to investigate this.

The opinions on this board have no evidential value in a court of law. If you want sympathy, direct people to your website so that they may comment there. But I can assure you, your website will not carry any weight in court either.

There are also many many Legal websites that can connect you with any help you may need.

yes i understand how you feel but you must remember it has been over 3 years and dont think we have not tryed to do this other ways but all of that was in vien sence the police refused to talk to any genaws except the next of kin and if you look at he first police report you will see they list that as CINDY GENAW his ex wife they give the right to claim gaylords body and i have learned sence then she was going to have his remains cremated.

but thanks for your opinion and if we could have done this differently we would have . and i apologize if i have offended you in any way

[drip~drop1]

The police told the family that he was ejected out of the side window, but the car never landed,rolled ect on him. No blood nothing on under or in the car. No airbag dust on or in any cuts, no glass on or in any cuts. his arm was almost torn off and his lungs and heart exposed. He had 21 broken bones, that included his fumer bone and a widely separation\fracture of the knee his pelvis. His neck had a total seperation and both shoulders were dislocated. There were lacerations of the brain, heart, liver and spleen, aorta, pulmonary artery and veins. There are wat too many to list everything.

the funeral home wanted the family to have a closed casket but my father refused and it took days to sew gaylord up do the embalming fluid would not leak. they did the best they could but gaylord didnt look like himself


Cindy has told multiple stories on what happened that night and who found her, who she talked to, how and why she got out of the car, not calling 911 but alaska, ohio, my brother and meny other calls wild walking down the road then changing that to just 2 calls, her claim of walking down the road yet no one seeing her there. not the yale cop, the first responder who lived down that road and had to drive by her. not the 2 boys that road there bikes down to the scene no one. but her story changes again from her steping off the road when people were comming down the road to her actually talking to a emergency worker in a truck that told her gaylord was dead and again her story changes that the first time she was told he died was at the scene a fireman who was holding a flash light on foot. But then the police claim they were the ones that told her and she collapsed in the road at the scene. Once again there are too many stories to tell. I am trying to put everything i have online and my webmaster is doing the best he can to get the updates online so please be patient with us but i promise i will not stop until my family gets the answers they need to heal and regain their piece of mind. Thanks for reading


please refer to www.gaylordgenaw.com for info on this case

:ohmy: That's a whole lot of injuries for ejecting out a closed vehicle.:confused:

I'm sorry for your family's loss. Hopefully your Uncles case will be re-opened and resolved soon.

[Mandysmom]

yes i understand how you feel but you must remember it has been over 3 years and dont think we have not tryed to do this other ways but all of that was in vien sence the police refused to talk to any genaws except the next of kin and if you look at he first police report you will see they list that as CINDY GENAW his ex wife they give the right to claim gaylords body and i have learned sence then she was going to have his remains cremated.

but thanks for your opinion and if we could have done this differently we would have . and i apologize if i have offended you in any way

Thank you lite for the link to the Rob Simpson case. I have been reading it too and find it so sad.

Maybe with the reopening of that case, you have a chance at getting them to take a second look at Gaylord's.

I hope it gets someone to take notice and look at it again for your family. My best wishes and prayers for you and your family.

[desmom]

I wanted to ask about the screams heard by the witnesses. The witness said he was told it was just a passerby. Was this woman ever identified. I would imagine the police would have taken a witness statement from her as it sounds like whoever she is she was first on scene.

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR02/005.html

Officer Todd of Yale PD said Cindy was standing in the street. When she was told Gaylord was deceased, she fell to her knees and screamed. jmo

[Mandysmom]

It was in the interview with Mark Dumar. He heard the screams.

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR01/003.html

[desmom]

The scream i was referring to was just minutes after the crash. Cant remember where I read it but it was supposedly before any emergency vehicles showed up. I think the witness said with in 5 min of the crash.

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR01/003.html
Mark Dumar's statement

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR01/006.html
Office Haehnle and Will Hislop of the Kenockee Twp Volunteer Fire Department statements.

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR01/007.html
Ross brothers' statement

[lite]

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR02/005.html

Officer Todd of Yale PD said Cindy was standing in the street. When she was told Gaylord was deceased, she fell to her knees and screamed. jmo



cindy states a fireman told her gaylord was deceased to captian brockdorf

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/PR02/013.html


cindy states a fireman wiht his lights on pulled up to her and he told her gaylord was dead this was stated to det patterson

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/PR02/008.html


deputies schwartzkopf and fontenot find cindy and they tell her gaylord was dead

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/PR01/002.html

[lite]

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR02/005.html

Officer Todd of Yale PD said Cindy was standing in the street. When she was told Gaylord was deceased, she fell to her knees and screamed. jmo

yale police officer states in first investagator report he arrived at 10 and stayed 30-40 min and seen cindy collapse

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR01/006.html


yale police officer state in second police report that he stay at the scene 15 min and cindy screamed and collapsed on the road


http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR02/005.html


i dont know if he remembers exactly what happened sence he cat remember how long he was at the crash scene witnesses said he was there until the sherrif arrived

[desmom]

lite dear, do you really believe that all the LE, fire dept. personnel, ME and private investigator are in some big conspiracy...some big cover-up?

[lite]

[QUOTE=desmom;13288792]lite dear, do you really believe that all the LE, fire dept. personnel, ME and private investigator are in some big conspiracy...some big cover-up?[/QUOTE


No i dont believe that at all but i do think this case was mishandled and the reports were made by trying to remember what happened not by the actual events

what ive posted are just a few discrepancies the police reports are really messed up, the investagators were paid for by he family and are actual interviews of glenn dingman and cindy genaw. and i dont totaly blame the police. after all cindy is a lier and its not easy to get the truth from her.



the reports all reflect what cindy and her brother is telling the police, investagators, as for the fireman that part i do believe but the time the screams were disgust glen dingman was at the scene and he was the one that told the fireman he thought cindy was in the car. remember this in the country and everyone knows everyone here i am sure glenn knew some of these fire fighters ect so it he told them it was a passer by they would believe him. having a name or statement from this passer by makes me question it.


heres more that i question

1. the police found the divorce papers in the field and knew they were divorced but still put in there report it was uncertian

2. knowing she was divorced they still named her (cindy) next of kin. this is important because the morgue would release the body to her and she could have had his body creamated.

3. patterson questioned no body that night but cindy and jeff who arrived after the crash. but the first responder , 911 callers , the boys that were on there bikes, (these boys are never talked to just there mother and a neighbor that don't seam to care for them) the many others that could have helped them.

4. patterson telling me personally that cindy took a shower that night before he interviewed her, the fact that we took him the insurance money and his comment was $111,000.00 was not alot of money (but before finding the policy he said if there was one it could be a "smoking gun" then when we found out no airbag dust was on or in his body, he said i had to prove he couldn't get out of the car without having it on him, and finally he states the only thing is a witness that seen her behind the wheel. why would he be this way is it his job to investagate or what . my uncle was told to investagate this case himself and then he hired the private investagators.


5. i dont believe anything would have made him question cindy and glenn and there is a statement in the second police report that cindy states about giving any of gaylords things to the genaws and that didnt even make him think ( he laying in the field dead and shes worried about giving gaylords things to the genaws )


6. to *** it all up in my opinion he rushed this and went back on his vacation and now patterson is covering his butt.

[lite]

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR02/005.html

Officer Todd of Yale PD said Cindy was standing in the street. When she was told Gaylord was deceased, she fell to her knees and screamed. jmo



they were looking for cindys body in the field with a thermal heat camera and the screams were heard before cindy arrived at the scene by the 911callers

[Mr_JaBob]

Again thank you everyone for your great replies. i'm just jumping on here to say hello and that we're still here. If anyone else has any questions or coments please say so we'd love to hear them. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we'd like to hear it regardless of if its the same as ours. we've had 3 years to run threw many different scenarios and the injuries just seem to extreem for simply being ejected into a bean feild.
Thank you all again

God Bless
Bob

[Lavinia]

Is anyone looking in to what happened anymore (other than the family, of course)?

[Mr_JaBob]

http://www.gaylordgenaw.com/reports/IR02/005.html

Officer Todd of Yale PD said Cindy was standing in the street. When she was told Gaylord was deceased, she fell to her knees and screamed. jmo

first before i say anything i would like to say that lite knows all the details much better then me and she may elaborate some. But i wanted to say that its sort of strange cindy would suggest a suit for gaylord. Before JR was appointed head of the estate. cindy was trying to have gaylord cremated. second cindy has shot and and actually shot gaylord in the past before this

[Mr_JaBob]

actually i was just informed that cindy did not actually shoot gaylord, but only shot at him, and luckily missed his head.

[Postergeist]

Again thank you everyone for your great replies. i'm just jumping on here to say hello and that we're still here. If anyone else has any questions or coments please say so we'd love to hear them. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we'd like to hear it regardless of if its the same as ours. we've had 3 years to run threw many different scenarios and the injuries just seem to extreem for simply being ejected into a bean feild.
Thank you all again

God Bless
Bob

Hi Bob- I still haven't heard back from a poster that I was hoping could get in contact with people he knows at 48 Hours.

I can pass along the opinion of my dad- who while not an expert, did work in the funeral home business and saw his share of accident, murder and suicide victims. After viewing your site, he said "that car didn't kill him". Basically- he didn't think that he expired due to being ejected from the car.

[lite]

Hi Bob- I still haven't heard back from a poster that I was hoping could get in contact with people he knows at 48 Hours.

I can pass along the opinion of my dad- who while not an expert, did work in the funeral home business and saw his share of accident, murder and suicide victims. After viewing your site, he said "that car didn't kill him". Basically- he didn't think that he expired due to being ejected from the car.


I would like to thank you and everyone for helping our family I have sence been in contact with a reconstruction expert in colorado I also have emails into 48 hours and several others. I am hoping to hear from them soon.

Plase keep comming back and if you think of anything at all that can help let us know

[Mr_JaBob]

Hi Bob- I still haven't heard back from a poster that I was hoping could get in contact with people he knows at 48 Hours.

I can pass along the opinion of my dad- who while not an expert, did work in the funeral home business and saw his share of accident, murder and suicide victims. After viewing your site, he said "that car didn't kill him". Basically- he didn't think that he expired due to being ejected from the car.

hi postergeist, thank you for helping us. as lite said we are trying to follow up on some of the advise we have been getting here. your fathers thoughts are much like our own. we dont know what really happened that night other than we dont think its what the LE reports it to be. we have thought maybe she hit him with the car and there are a few things in the pictures of the car that could be where he was hit but still seems strange there also is no blood on the inside or outside the car.. so many things that dont make sence.

[Mr_JaBob]

Updates to the site. Video's of the Dingmans in court now available for download. Watch the judge roll his eyes as marshal starts cross examining glen and how he searches his paper for answers and does not know what to say when the answer is clearly not on it.

[incidentally]

Updates to the site. Video's of the Dingmans in court now available for download. Watch the judge roll his eyes as marshal starts cross examining glen and how he searches his paper for answers and does not know what to say when the answer is clearly not on it.

Hi JaBob,

I'm short on time right now so can't watch the videos until later. I am somewhat put off by your introduction to the DVD's. I understand you're all very upset, confused and angry but professional goes a lot further, especially if you hope this will hit the main stream media.

At this point, I don't know what to think. It does seem suspect in some ways but again, if it were me, I would not call people dingbats or use other such language in your presentation.

regards,

tally

[AnnInOhio]

My hinky meter goes off that if you've been put out of a car in the middle of the night driven by your drunken ex-husband, who apparently you've been staying with for a few days while your divorce is being finalized, why don't you use your cell phone to immediately call your brother who lives a few miles down the road to come pick you up? Why walk on a dark road in the country any further than you have to? Where was she going to stay that night? If nothing else, wouldn't she have needed to get hold of her brother to arrange a place to stay for the night? It was 10:00 ish...why wait til it gets even later if you're gonna knock on his door for help soon anyway? After all, they were on that road at her request so she could get to her brother for help. Why call Ohio instead? Why call Alaska? Why not call your brother and tell him you need a ride? Any insight anyone?

[AnnInOhio]

Also it seems to me that the family may not be thinking out of the box. They seem to think the ex-wife hit him with the car. Maybe he wasn't killed by a car at all...maybe he was beaten to death with something like a shovel. Maybe nobody was in the car when it crashed. Maybe that's why the seat was pulled so far forward - maybe the gas pedal was rigged. It's too odd to me that the divorce papers and gun were conveniently found lying near the body. Did he have them in his hands or something? Maybe the white shirt was used to get the gas pedal prop out of the wrecked car and discarded because somebody didn't want to leave fingerpints - that could explain how it got powder on it. I've been looking at satellite maps of the area...its seems there is a lot of distance between houses in that area.

[AnnInOhio]

Can any of the family members address what the relationship was like between Gaylord and his ex-wife? Why did she stay with Gaylord for the few day she was "home" to finalize the divorce when she had family in the area?

[AnnInOhio]

I read on a blog that there were two sets of keys for the cadillac found at the scene: one in the ignition and a set in Gaylord's pocket. Is that true?

[lite]

Also it seems to me that the family may not be thinking out of the box. They seem to think the ex-wife hit him with the car. Maybe he wasn't killed by a car at all...maybe he was beaten to death with something like a shovel. Maybe nobody was in the car when it crashed. Maybe that's why the seat was pulled so far forward - maybe the gas pedal was rigged. It's too odd to me that the divorce papers and gun were conveniently found lying near the body. Did he have them in his hands or something? Maybe the white shirt was used to get the gas pedal prop out of the wrecked car and discarded because somebody didn't want to leave fingerpints - that could explain how it got powder on it. I've been looking at satellite maps of the area...its seems there is a lot of distance between houses in that area.

First of all thank you Ann for your interest in my uncles case. At first we thought that he was beat to death and the car crash was staged. But there are things we found out about that night we believe there was a party around Duce road area and that Gaylord and Cindy were at the party some sort of argument started and we do believe that Gaylord was beaten. A woman that is related to the Dingmans told me that Cindy had to help Gaylord in the car that night at his Babcock home she said Cindy made sure Gaylord was drunk and that Cindy was driving that night not Gaylord also the divorce was final but the judge left the home up in the air and we believe that Cindy just refused to leave her name was on the deed and she was not leaving. Gaylord was still in love with Cindy but i believe that Cindy was no longer in love with him. she made statements to me before she left him in march 2006 like " she wished god would take gaylord in his sleep" also " her love for gaylord has turned to hate" . I have also found out that she was cheating on him for quite some time before she left him. I will be putting the tablet we found at gaylords house the next day after gaylord died were she was making lists of things like get auctioneer for sale of things in the house, contact realtor, get outfit ans so on i will be posting it on the website as soon as possible. Cindy left my uncle in march 2006 and went to Ohio were she found a new man who she was living with he was sued for selling the car that belonged to the estate. (the details are on the web site) i also have a letter she wrote to another man a week after my uncle died asking him for wild sex with no ties. There is alot more to come so please keep checking back

[lite]

I read on a blog that there were two sets of keys for the cadillac found at the scene: one in the ignition and a set in Gaylord's pocket. Is that true?


Yes it is true there were 2 sets of keys one in the pocket and one still in the ignition. she makes alot of statements about the car like looking at the speedometer and he was going 70 but it could have been faster because of the angle she was looking at it. but the speedometer was digital no way would it be anything else. also she states that when Gaylord took off in the caddy after letting her out that he spun his tires and through rocks all over her but that never happened because the caddy was a front wheel drive the back tires would not spin. one time she states it looked like gaylord turned on another road then she said that she watched his.

[lite]

Can any of the family members address what the relationship was like between Gaylord and his ex-wife? Why did she stay with Gaylord for the few day she was "home" to finalize the divorce when she had family in the area?

No one but Cindy has said that she was staying with Gaylord sense the divorce was on July 3, 2006 and he died July 6, 2006 I do not believe that she was living there but if she was it was because Gaylord could not legally get her out sense her name was on the deed and she had every right to stay there even if Gaylord wanted her out

[lite]

Hi JaBob,

I'm short on time right now so can't watch the videos until later. I am somewhat put off by your introduction to the DVD's. I understand you're all very upset, confused and angry but professional goes a lot further, especially if you hope this will hit the main stream media.

At this point, I don't know what to think. It does seem suspect in some ways but again, if it were me, I would not call people dingbats or use other such language in your presentation.

regards,

tally


I agree and we have changed the intro to the dvds i am sorry that i let my emotions and my anger take over my common sense and reason thank you for reminding me that I am better then that and there will be no more cheap shots like that on the web site again. This is a serious subject and i would never jeopardize it with a lapse in judgment

[AnnInOhio]

Has anybody ever converted Gaylord's blood alcohol level to something someone like me would understand? Like a 1.8 (give or take) is usually impaired driving level, etc. If his BAC was 3 times the legal limit and Cindy knew it and allowed him to drive anyway, did you ever consider a wrongful death action against her?

I thought I saw in the records where Cindy says they left for their drive around dark, yet the route she said they took doesn't look like it would take much more than 30 minutes and it was pitch dark when the accident occurred according to witnesses.

And how and when did her relationship get so bad with her kids?

[AnnInOhio]

How close to the body were the gun and divorce papers found? It seems odd to me that everything that came out of the car would fly out and land at roughly the same point the body did given the difference in weights and sizes. Were those the only items laying loose in the car?

I have a very similar Cadillac (a '99) and the electric driver's seat in mine won't just slide forward - it's electric. I can't think even an impact as described would move the seat forward like that unless it broke the seat loose from the rails. And on mine, FYI, there is both digital and analog speedometer that can be easily seen from the passenger seat. The digital display can be turned on and off.

And what exactly did son Jason say he heard when he "heard" his dad dying? And what was the fight about at the funeral?? Was the family already blaming Cindy that soon?

Sorry for all the questions, but its an interesting "non" case of a case!

[lite]

How close to the body were the gun and divorce papers found? It seems odd to me that everything that came out of the car would fly out and land at roughly the same point the body did given the difference in weights and sizes. Were those the only items laying loose in the car?

I have a very similar Cadillac (a '99) and the electric driver's seat in mine won't just slide forward - it's electric. I can't think even an impact as described would move the seat forward like that unless it broke the seat loose from the rails. And on mine, FYI, there is both digital and analog speedometer that can be easily seen from the passenger seat. The digital display can be turned on and off.

And what exactly did son Jason say he heard when he "heard" his dad dying? And what was the fight about at the funeral?? Was the family already blaming Cindy that soon?

Sorry for all the questions, but its an interesting "non" case of a case!

Hello Anninohio thank you for asking questions i take no offense to anyone asking questions. Cindy says alot to the police and investigators and she contradicts herself alot who really knows when she is lying or telling the truth? As for the family blaiming cindy right away yes we did after all she shot at him the day she left him in March, the same day she told me she wished he would die in his sleep, she made comments like she could shoot him in the head and everyone would think it was suicide and the fact that she divorced him she never said she wanted to try to get back together in court she just wanted her half of the house then he dies 3 days later and cindy is the only one there when he dies, then after he dies she claims they were together and plainning to have another baby come on now. Even if this never sees a court room i want my uncles story told and i know in my heart that cindy will get hers when she meets her maker. Jason cindys oldest son tryed to attack my father gaylords brother my dad was 68 years old my father and mother left the funeral home called the police and the pulled over our cusin bob who is in his 60s and arrested him he did nothing. it really was nothing i really think the reason the cops were called was because Jason broke the funeral home door. Jason told alot of people that he heard his father die that night he never explained anything but said aND I QUOTE" I heard my father die on the phone that night"

[lite]

Has anybody ever converted Gaylord's blood alcohol level to something someone like me would understand? Like a 1.8 (give or take) is usually impaired driving level, etc. If his BAC was 3 times the legal limit and Cindy knew it and allowed him to drive anyway, did you ever consider a wrongful death action against her?

I thought I saw in the records where Cindy says they left for their drive around dark, yet the route she said they took doesn't look like it would take much more than 30 minutes and it was pitch dark when the accident occurred according to witnesses.

And how and when did her relationship get so bad with her kids?

gaylord had 2 boys by his first wife one was a stepson and 2 by cindy

cindy never had a good relationship with her stepkids

cindy owes the estate alot of money all ready. and athere is no lawyer that will take a case that is uncollectable . he will not get payed and athe family would never get anything from her. money would not bring gaylord back and in our eyes is not justice for his death.

[AnnInOhio]

Hello Anninohio thank you for asking questions i take no offense to anyone asking questions. Cindy says alot to the police and investigators and she contradicts herself alot who really knows when she is lying or telling the truth? As for the family blaiming cindy right away yes we did after all she shot at him the day she left him in March, the same day she told me she wished he would die in his sleep, she made comments like she could shoot him in the head and everyone would think it was suicide and the fact that she divorced him she never said she wanted to try to get back together in court she just wanted her half of the house then he dies 3 days later and cindy is the only one there when he dies, then after he dies she claims they were together and plainning to have another baby come on now. Even if this never sees a court room i want my uncles story told and i know in my heart that cindy will get hers when she meets her maker. Jason cindys oldest son tryed to attack my father gaylords brother my dad was 68 years old my father and mother left the funeral home called the police and the pulled over our cusin bob who is in his 60s and arrested him he did nothing. it really was nothing i really think the reason the cops were called was because Jason broke the funeral home door. Jason told alot of people that he heard his father die that night he never explained anything but said aND I QUOTE" I heard my father die on the phone that night"

If I'm reading the records correctly, isn't Jason the son in Alaska who Cindy called while Gaylord was driving "crazy" - driving fast and swerving ditch-to-ditch to scare Cindy - and told his mom to get out of that car? I gathered from something I read that Jason and Gaylord didn't particularly get along - is that accurate? Put in that context, if Jason agrees with cops that his dad died as a result of reckless/drunk driving, I guess I can understand him saying he heard his dad die that night in that he heard during that phone call how erratically Gaylord was driving that night. Have his brothers and other family members never sat down and talked calmly to Jason about what he heard that night during his conversation with their mom while she was in the car just prior to his death?

And where did you hear Cindy planned to have another baby with Gaylord?

[AnnInOhio]

First of all thank you Ann for your interest in my uncles case. At first we thought that he was beat to death and the car crash was staged. But there are things we found out about that night we believe there was a party around Duce road area and that Gaylord and Cindy were at the party some sort of argument started and we do believe that Gaylord was beaten. A woman that is related to the Dingmans told me that Cindy had to help Gaylord in the car that night at his Babcock home she said Cindy made sure Gaylord was drunk and that Cindy was driving that night not Gaylord also the divorce was final but the judge left the home up in the air and we believe that Cindy just refused to leave her name was on the deed and she was not leaving. Gaylord was still in love with Cindy but i believe that Cindy was no longer in love with him. she made statements to me before she left him in march 2006 like " she wished god would take gaylord in his sleep" also " her love for gaylord has turned to hate" . I have also found out that she was cheating on him for quite some time before she left him. I will be putting the tablet we found at gaylords house the next day after gaylord died were she was making lists of things like get auctioneer for sale of things in the house, contact realtor, get outfit ans so on i will be posting it on the website as soon as possible. Cindy left my uncle in march 2006 and went to Ohio were she found a new man who she was living with he was sued for selling the car that belonged to the estate. (the details are on the web site) i also have a letter she wrote to another man a week after my uncle died asking him for wild sex with no ties. There is alot more to come so please keep checking back

Witnesses in the past have not always reported to authorities exactly what you expect them to report. Why do you think that is? I didn't see anything in the police reports indicating you ever gave law enforcement that information. From all I've read it looks like the family has only asked them to investigate and consider whether or not Cindy could have hit and killed Gaylord with the car.

When did Cindy get together with her "new man" who I assume was Mr. Pelfrey - before or after Gaylord's death? The car she transferred that belonged to the estate was purchased after she received the life insurance money. Just my opinion, but you tend to muddy your "case for murder" facts when you group after-the-fact actions in with before-the-fact actions. It makes sense to me that there would be such a "to do" list found at the home after the divorce hearing. She and Gaylord would have had to discuss how the value of the home would be determined and steps that would need to be done before the next hearing about the division of the home. If Gaylord didn't have sufficient money to pay cash for her half, or income to borrow the money against the house to pay her, they may well have considered needing to sell some of the personal property he was awarded at auction.

I was somehow under the impression that Cindy had taken some items of value with her when she left in March, including cashing in some kind of insurance policy other than the accidental death policy she collected on. Is that so?

[AnnInOhio]

Help me sort out the issue of screams heard the night Gaylord died.
Liedecker & Dumar, the guys who called 911, went to the scene as soon as emergency workers arrived and both reported hearing screaming about 5-10 minutes after the accident occurred. They came from the south and weren't allowed close to the scene and couldn't tell where the screams were coming from.

Will Hislop learned upon arrival the 911 callers were saying they'd heard a woman screaming so he used a thermal camera to look for other possible victims. He says he stopped after learning the screams came from a woman going by the scene in a vehicle, yet he says 10-15 minutes after his arrival is when a hysterical Cindy arrived in a white pickup.

My question is were there two sets of screams? If Will was present when Cindy arrived on scene he'd have surely heard her screams himself and not been relying on what the 911 callers said. How much traffic was allowed to go past the site before the roadblocks were set up that would allow a passing truck to drive by with a woman able to see enough in the dark to cause her to scream? There were so few people there when the 911 callers came on scene that you'd think they'd see any vehicles passing by on the road where they were probably standing.

[AnnInOhio]

Pete Neilson is the fireman who saw Cindy collapse screaming on the road. Pete says he arrived on scene 5 minutes after Tom Skelton. Tom lives on Duce Road just 2 miles north of the scene and got the call at 10:02 and arrived on scene at 10:10. That would put Pete arriving on scene at about 10:15. Pete was walking north on Duce as Cindy was walking south when she came up to him about 5-10 minutes after his arrival. That puts Pete seeing Cindy screaming at about 10:20 or so. That doesn't seem to gibe with when the 911 callers heard the screams that caused the thermal imaging to occur. I'm not sure how Will knows a hysterical Cindy arrived 10-15 minutes after his arrival - if he actually saw her or if that's the time he learned about her being on scene from others.

[HALE 2d GNAW]

Hello everyone,

to make a long story short my uncle in law was killed about 3 years ago in what the local police ruled a (Personal Injury Accident) PIA. now.. the detective that was called to the scene was called in off his vacation and had closed the case that night. His Ex-wife who he divorced 3 days prior to that preceded to illegally collect $111,000 from an insurance policy the estate at that time did not know about. When they were divorced the house was protested by the ex at the last minute and the judge ruled for it to be settled at a later date. By the time that date came he was already dead and she showed up at court trying to make it look as if he were still alive and just did not show up, so that it would default to her since he wasn't there. We found out about the court date and had the probate lawyer there and the house was then turned over to probate for ruling with the estate. There are MANY more strange things about this case and me and the family would really appreciate some other opinions. We have made a web site www.gaylordgenaw.com (i dunno if this is against the rules??) most of the legal documents (autopsy, Police Reports, 2 PI Reports, and more) are there. We'd love to here your opinions. Please let us know

God Bless
Bob


Is it common in your state for this PIA ruling? I have never heard of LE using it. Very interesting. I didn't see it on the blog but would love to learm more.

The divorce judgment posted on your blog is unsigned. You have it up as divorce papers. It merely has a stamp for the judge's siggy. This is not enforceable since no sigs on it IMO. Does another one have siggys?

Divorce finalization posted = transcript of 7/3/06 hearing.

House transcript = judge's assignment of jurisdiction of house claims to probate court.

Realtor agreement = no signature


How did brother get body if Cindy objected?

[lite]

If I'm reading the records correctly, isn't Jason the son in Alaska who Cindy called while Gaylord was driving "crazy" - driving fast and swerving ditch-to-ditch to scare Cindy - and told his mom to get out of that car? I gathered from something I read that Jason and Gaylord didn't particularly get along - is that accurate? Put in that context, if Jason agrees with cops that his dad died as a result of reckless/drunk driving, I guess I can understand him saying he heard his dad die that night in that he heard during that phone call how erratically Gaylord was driving that night. Have his brothers and other family members never sat down and talked calmly to Jason about what he heard that night during his conversation with their mom while she was in the car just prior to his death?

And where did you hear Cindy planned to have another baby with Gaylord?

i am afraid that talking to jason would be inpossible sence he wants nothing to do with any of us. his younger brother jeff has tryed to talk to him but gets nowhere. jason made it clear that he heard his father die not that he was thinking his father woud get in a accdent and die nothing like that to anyone at the funeral and he told alot of people that and none of them told me that they thought he ment anything else. jason loves his dad but he never has anything good to say about him. jason left michigan to get out of paying his child suport he would go to jail if he comes back to michigan. i love jason alot but i do not agree with his lifestyle and how he dodges his responsibility. as for his stepbrothers jason has threatened them and has went as far as to tell jr that he could end up the same way his dad has. jason has burned alot of bridges here but if he would ever want to sit down and talk i would be more then happy to but he would have to keep his anger and temper in check. and i would agree to listen to his story as i would hope he would mine

[GossipGirl]

To reiterate a question Ann asked, Why haven't you filed a wrongful death thing on her if she let him drive drunk?
Other than that, Ann is asking everything I'm thinking about.

GG

[GossipGirl]

Well, as an RN, I think, after seeing and reading, that it was an accident.
it appears he flew through the windshield, and his totally dislocated shoulder happened because it most likely was on the top of the wheel, and the impact sent it backwords as his body moved forwards, thereby ripping it. The massive head injuries are from the impact site on the windshield, which is visible.
When the car rolled over, the windshield popped back inwards as it landed on it's wheels again.
There is not a lot of blood because he died so quickly, meaning all of his blood stopped being pumped, leaving it right where it was, in his veins. The cardiac/chest injuries left blood pooling in his body, and gravity pulled this downwards, towards the back of his body as he was lying on his back. The autopsy report accounts for around a half litre of lost blood.
He had his aorta cut, just like Princess Diana, and the blood, once it quit flowing after those 7 seconds, simply stayed put.
The ground is obviously so sandy that the wife's story of dirt being strewn around makes sense.
I find the car to be totaled, and I also believe the force of his body going through the windshield did in fact allow for the seat to be moved forward.
There would be no blood in the car as the injuries occured after he left it. His only point of internal impact seems to be his forhead and the windshield. By internal, I mean in the vehicle.
I would venture a guess he was zipping along and lost control and ended up in the field where the car quickly rolled and ejected him.


As for her, her confusion at the scene means little. It's not uncommon for survivors to go wandering around, screaming etc. I don't think she killed him, tho she may have gotten the insurance money because it was in her name still. Their divorce would not have been finalized for awhile after the court, here in NJ there's a 6 month waiting period before the final papers are recorded.
Don't know about Michigan.
Very sad case all around.

GG

[lite]

To reiterate a question Ann asked, Why haven't you filed a wrongful death thing on her if she let him drive drunk?
Other than that, Ann is asking everything I'm thinking about.

GG

well lawyers tell our family that cindy is uncollectable so no one would take the case. Also Cindy allready owes the estate $83,990.46 effective august 2, 2007 with intrest sence that date and has paid nothing. she lives with her boyfriend in ohio and he owns a business and employees her but he pays her cash and there for it can not be garnished. the money she owes belongs to gaylords boys not any other genaw gaylords brothers and other family members have been accused of suing the dingmans for profit this is no true. the fact is that cindy stole from her ow boys and gaylords sons fom another marriage

[lite]

Well, as an RN, I think, after seeing and reading, that it was an accident.
it appears he flew through the windshield, and his totally dislocated shoulder happened because it most likely was on the top of the wheel, and the impact sent it backwords as his body moved forwards, thereby ripping it. The massive head injuries are from the impact site on the windshield, which is visible.
When the car rolled over, the windshield popped back inwards as it landed on it's wheels again.
There is not a lot of blood because he died so quickly, meaning all of his blood stopped being pumped, leaving it right where it was, in his veins. The cardiac/chest injuries left blood pooling in his body, and gravity pulled this downwards, towards the back of his body as he was lying on his back. The autopsy report accounts for around a half litre of lost blood.
He had his aorta cut, just like Princess Diana, and the blood, once it quit flowing after those 7 seconds, simply stayed put.
The ground is obviously so sandy that the wife's story of dirt being strewn around makes sense.
I find the car to be totaled, and I also believe the force of his body going through the windshield did in fact allow for the seat to be moved forward.
There would be no blood in the car as the injuries occured after he left it. His only point of internal impact seems to be his forhead and the windshield. By internal, I mean in the vehicle.
I would venture a guess he was zipping along and lost control and ended up in the field where the car quickly rolled and ejected him.


As for her, her confusion at the scene means little. It's not uncommon for survivors to go wandering around, screaming etc. I don't think she killed him, tho she may have gotten the insurance money because it was in her name still. Their divorce would not have been finalized for awhile after the court, here in NJ there's a 6 month waiting period before the final papers are recorded.
Don't know about Michigan.
Very sad case all around.

GG

my brother dino and i were both very close to cindy and it has been very hard on the both of us. nobody understands that we thought the only involvement cindy had in my uncles death at first was the fact she left him and he was so upset that he lost it just like she wanted us to belive. but my father and gaylords brothers knew better so i decided to investigate this and i found out that there was alot more to the story. the seat position in the car. no airbag dust on him or in his cuts, way to many injuries for just being ejected from the car in a bean field, the consistant lying cindy does the meny stories she tells, the things that happened before she left him and statements she made. the crazy calling that night alaska then ohio, my brother but never 911 or glen dingman? or did she call glen? she states it both ways. the intrest in things and money the night gaylord died, all the people that went down that road but no one sees her until she shows up at the scene? all the people that first tells her gaylord died. the police state they told her? but then cindy tells that a fireman tells her at the scene and hes holding a flashlight and again she states that a fireman pulls up to her as she walking down the road and tells her? you would think she could get that right after all i will never forget that night and how i was told. its this and so much more that has convinced me that cindy is hiding alot and in my oppnion my uncle was murdered.


if he went through the windshield and there was massave injuries i personall would believe there would be some blood or flsh tissue something there

the seat was not broken it was not pulled up from the floor they are electric so i dont believ that they would move unless the button was pushed to make them move. the inside of that car was white leather and no blood you really think so? and his arm i dont understand how it was ripped off why is the windhields caved in not out? and if he went out the windshield weres the airbag dust? the police have told us that he went out the passanger side window before the airbags deployed but the car had sensors on all sides of the careven the back bumperalso the body wa found at the beginning of the crash if he would have rode the crash out there would have been blood everywherer but not one drop in that car. thank you for your oppnion and i will check it out with the family and see what they think.

also she didnt wonder around her brother took her to his house if you read the pi reports her brother found her collasped in the road she was not on the scene that long and she took a shower? detective patterson told me she took a shower why? his arm was cut under the arm not on top both shoulders were totally dislocated and his neck was broken making his head free flowing from his body (only holding on by the skin) i was told he bled out in with in seconds but no blood in the car what about the brusing all over his body if he bled out that fast an was dead they should not be there. please help me understand what you are saying


the roads in michigan are gravel not sand and there is no way a front wheel drive will spin the back tires, also in michigan when the judge signes and the stamp is on that paper they are then no longer married cindy knew this also agreed to everything in the divorce that happed 3 days before the crash. in the divorce papers she agreed to and signed it states that either party could collect any benifits and cindy was well aware of that fact

[lite]

The court dvds are on the web site this is glenn dingmans trial
i put these online to show just how honest the dingmans are