Michael Jackson ~ Friday 7/10

[Pattycake]

I watched the Memorial again this evening. It wasn't quite as sad this time around.
I hope MJ will be remembered for the good and humanitarian efforts of his life... and that people will focus on The Message..Not The Mess.

I can still see him and his brothers on the Ed Sullivan show.

[disneyfreak]

Addressing a few points from yesterday's thread.


Why didn't Santa Barbara prosecute the doctors back then? First of all, MJ's handlers said those drugs weren't for him. Second, there was no reason to do a full drug investigation. This year, the death investigation opened the door to bust them. If the tox comes back positive there is a lot more evidence to prove the docs messed up. Also, when it comes to MJ there has been infighting between Los Angeles and Santa Barbara DA's offices ever since the LA DA was more concerned about politics than pursing the first criminal case.

Athena2, Aphrodite Jones's lack of friends in the business has a lot to do with things outside of MJ. For example, from True Crime author Ann Rule's blog entry on April 17, 2006 (http://www.annrules.com/journal/default.asp?PagePosition=18):

Please remembet that my book on Pat Taylor is called Everything She Ever Wanted. There is a book called All She Ever Wanted--but this is written by a writer named Aprhodite Jones who has taken many of my titles and changed them just a little for her books. She also has one called Cruel Sacrifices--which sounds a lot like my Small Sacrifices. Not surprisingly, I am NOT one of her fans.

[aproudmom]

Morning everyone..wont the tox be back in a week or so? if they even release it as of right now..I just hope this helps others I did some research and more people die from Prescription meds than I ever knew..I was very much shocked..so perhaps in all the madness and sadness things will start changing I had something in my local paper a week ago about tracking and alot of changes and my controlled substances for Anxiety will not even be paid for by my insurance for some reason first time in 5 years I just do not want it to hurt the ones that do not abuse the stuff but I see that happening..

[aproudmom]

boy Joe was a busy man does anyone know if the other siblings had a relationship with Joh'Vonnie Jackson ..maybe KJ should have divorced him years ago..

http://forums.luxuryfashion.com/forums/20428/ShowPost.aspx

[RootBeer]

boy Joe was a busy man does anyone know if the other siblings had a relationship with Joh'Vonnie Jackson ..maybe KJ should have divorced him years ago..

http://forums.luxuryfashion.com/forums/20428/ShowPost.aspx

I can best guess KJ didn't divorce JJ because of her religious beliefs.

[Tokyo Rose]

Did anyone watch LKL last night? Who was MJs friend (not a happy guy) in the Hawaiian shirt? I was running out and didn't catch his name. Blanket looks just like him. imo

That's Marlon Brando's son.

[RootBeer]

Did anyone watch LKL last night? Who was MJs friend (not a happy guy) in the Hawaiian shirt? I was running out and didn't catch his name. Blanket looks just like him. imo

That must be Miko Brando, one of MJ's moochers.

[cutiepatootie61]

OMG, someone needs to keep that Joe Jackson away from Michael's kids, he's already talking about their future as entertainers.

He said Michael's daughter, Paris, who spoke at the Tuesday memorial service, was taking the death hard and was crying whenever Michael's name is mentioned. He said that she might have a future in the entertainment business along with the youngest son, nicknamed Blanket, who "can really dance."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090710/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_investigation

[Tokyo Rose]

OMG, someone needs to keep that Joe Jackson away from Michael's kids, he's already talking about their future as entertainers.

He said Michael's daughter, Paris, who spoke at the Tuesday memorial service, was taking the death hard and was crying whenever Michael's name is mentioned. He said that she might have a future in the entertainment business along with the youngest son, nicknamed Blanket, who "can really dance."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090710/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_investigation




"Meanwhile, Joe Jackson told ABC that he and his wife, Katherine, should have custody of Michael's three children. "They'll grow up to be strong Jacksons," he said."

How does he figure custody would go to HIM and his wife? Meanwhile DR filed a restraining order to keep him away from her kids. I hope she gets it. :scared: jmo

[KatieLady]

"Meanwhile, Joe Jackson told ABC that he and his wife, Katherine, should have custody of Michael's three children. "They'll grow up to be strong Jacksons," he said."

How does he figure custody would go to HIM and his wife? Meanwhile DR filed a restraining order to keep him away from her kids. I hope she gets it. :scared: jmo

Not sure what grounds she has to file it against him. Unless there is something we don't know about IMO

[Tokyo Rose]

While MJ's drug addition was huge, I believe his addition to little boys was far worse. I had forgotten about MJ's maid's little boy. After the little boy told his mother, MJ settled to the tune of 2 million.

While some may say he was a target of scam artists, I think it highly unlikely he could be so unlucky as to have three boys, that we know of, accuse him of exactly the same thing.

If the third boy's mother had of accepted the offered payoff, he wouldn't have had to suffer through a trial that time either.

JMO

[Tokyo Rose]

Not sure what grounds she has to file it against him. Unless there is something we don't know about IMO

I think we know about MJs saying he as well as his brothers were beaten by Joe. jmo

I think that's enough. jmo

[aproudmom]

HOMETOWN MEMORIAL PUTS JACKSON BURIAL FOCUS ON GARY

Fans of MICHAEL JACKSON are beginning to look towards Gary, Indiana for the location of the King of Pop's final resting place, following news the late star's hometown will honour him with a stadium memorial on Friday (10Jul09).

Gary Mayor Clay will join fans at the Indiana memorial on Friday. His representatives are refusing to confirm or deny Jackson's remains will be at the tribute.


http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/hometown-memorial-puts-jackson-burial-focus-on-gary_1109250

[Tokyo Rose]

HOMETOWN MEMORIAL PUTS JACKSON BURIAL FOCUS ON GARY

Fans of MICHAEL JACKSON are beginning to look towards Gary, Indiana for the location of the King of Pop's final resting place, following news the late star's hometown will honour him with a stadium memorial on Friday (10Jul09).

Gary Mayor Clay will join fans at the Indiana memorial on Friday. His representatives are refusing to confirm or deny Jackson's remains will be at the tribute.


http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/hometown-memorial-puts-jackson-burial-focus-on-gary_1109250


Interesting. I guess it would be easier to put up a Graceland type museum there. They already have the house he grew up in. It could be moved to a larger piece of land for starters. jmo

I know the news is reporting Joe and some of the brothers want MJ at Neverland to have a Graceland west and make money, but the executors are the ones who would take that money and put it in the estate. jmo

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Morning everone..I brought this over from yesterday's thread..and once again, I fell off my chair..I reiterate..Why was this not ( drug and medical parphenalia) addressed back then...Michael would be alive today if it had been!!

Originally Posted by FallenAngel♥
WOW

Santa Barbara County Sheriff's deputies who raided Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch back in 2003 found a syringe, powerful narcotics, vials and IV bags containing what could be anesthesia.


-- A vial of Versed -- a powerful sedative
-- Several IV bags containing "a milky white fluid, located in a small cardboard box on top of the bathtub." Propofol and other anesthesias are milky white. As we first reported, Propofol was in Jackson's home the day he died.
-- A vial of Promethazine -- an antihistamine with strong sedative effects
-- A bottle of Alprazolam (generic for Xanax, a powerful anti-anxiety drug)
-- A bottle of Percocet -- a painkiller
-- A syringe
-- A vial with Demerol in it
-- Numerous loose pills outside bottles
-- A bottle of Prednisone -- a steroid
-- Ery-tab -- an antibiotic
-- Prescriptions for Xanax that had been filled
-- A prescription for Alprazolam
-- Oxygen tanks
-- IV stands


http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/10/raid-a...d-heavy-drugs/

Why wasn't someone charged back then?


I just knew that using "Sleep therapy" was NOT something new in MJ's life....and this fact would cooroberate the reporting of "Track Marks" and collapsed veins ( we call sclerotic veins) found on Michael upon autopsy...

Man oh man..what a crying shame !!!

LMS:glare:

[aproudmom]

While MJ's drug addition was huge, I believe his addition to little boys was far worse. I had forgotten about MJ's maid's little boy. After the little boy told his mother, MJ settled to the tune of 2 million.

While some may say he was a target of scam artists, I think it highly unlikely he could be so unlucky as to have three boys, that we know of, accuse him of exactly the same thing.

If the third boy's mother had of accepted the offered payoff, he wouldn't have had to suffer through a trial that time either.

JMO

3? for one if it was my child no amount of money would shut me up..I would not want the person to harm another child I would feel I could have stopped it

[Tokyo Rose]

3? for one if it was my child no amount of money would shut me up..I would not want the person to harm another child I would feel I could have stopped it

I agree and I would feel the same way. As we have seen it's not easy to prosecute a celebrity. The mother of the third boy refused to be paid off and went to trial. I would think the publicity of the first and second boy would have warned any parents away, but I guess it didn't. jmo

[mrsmcgoo]

I am shocked that the LE had clear evidence that drugs were being written and obtained in an illegal manner, yet they didn't do anything?! They need to be called on this. :cursing:

So to me, as much as I blame MJ for his own drug use, I also blame LE for NOT do anything back in 2004. Disgusts me!

JMO

[aproudmom]

do they put IV's in your leg? I think this is a crock of sh** guess someone needs their 15 minutes

http://www.pr-inside.com/jackson-s-spider-bite-was-caused-by-r1378917.htm

He says, "He had the IV (intravenous) stuff back then. It wasn't a spider bite. It was an IV he pulled out of his leg. The needle broke off." Jackson showed off the wound to the Globe at the time, telling the publication, "I really was bitten by spiders. I have been in agony

[~layla~]

While MJ's drug addition was huge, I believe his addition to little boys was far worse. I had forgotten about MJ's maid's little boy. After the little boy told his mother, MJ settled to the tune of 2 million.

While some may say he was a target of scam artists, I think it highly unlikely he could be so unlucky as to have three boys, that we know of, accuse him of exactly the same thing.

If the third boy's mother had of accepted the offered payoff, he wouldn't have had to suffer through a trial that time either.

JMO

Im not sure it would be an addiction as much as it was to a liking of peers. I believe MJ stopped emotional growth at a young age (11-15) and needed those boys around to feel. He searched for comraderie for a very long time.... Brooke Shields, Madonna, Corey Feldman, Emmanual Lewis, and more... these people were huge and slipped into stardom in a huge way. It was a connection .... he understood them, is how they came to be with him. Remember these people were always on HIS (MJ's) invite.. not the other way around.

He moved on to lesser knowns because the "addiction" if you want to label it, was expanding. He wanted to explore some personal things and needed people that would worship him. It was his only barometer of love.

Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why he put beverages into soda cans and called it Jesus Juice? ... There is nothing okay about that. It is a deliberate attempt to deceive the person drinking it. And furthermore, why? What was the need to deceive?

~le sigh~
isnt there a saying.. something to do with religion? "whited sepature" or something like that? (sorry I cant recall the exact phrase, maybe someone with more religious background than I.)

[KatieLady]

I think we know about MJs saying he as well as his brothers were beaten by Joe. jmo

I think that's enough. jmo

Not sure how it works but that was 40 years ago. Unless Joe had hit the grandkids or threatened them in some way I don't know that 40 year old allegations would be enough to get an RO :shrug:

[Tokyo Rose]

It sure shows MJ has been an addict for a very long time. jmo

[aproudmom]

I agree and I would feel the same way. As we have seen it's not easy to prosecute a celebrity. The mother of the third boy refused to be paid off and went to trial. I would think the publicity of the first and second boy would have warned any parents away, but I guess it didn't. jmo

which one IIRC said he would not allow them to leave Neverland? I may be wrong but thought it was a employee..so there was more than just 2 and they were both paid off..I never was a huge fan so I dont recall the 3rd..:confused:

[KatieLady]

really? You think a court would think he deserves another chance? Unbelievable. imo

Where in my post did I say that? We were discussing if DR has grounds to file for an RO or not.

[Tokyo Rose]

Not sure how it works but that was 40 years ago. Unless Joe had hit the grandkids or threatened them in some way I don't know that 40 year old allegations would be enough to get an RO :shrug:

I don't know the reasons or how it is going to work either, but at least she is trying. From reports I have heard, she has filed one. I guess we'll see if it works. Maybe it will be part of the reasons she will use to gain custody. If the grandmother gets them, he will have access to them.

Did you see post #11? He could be planning to exploit these grandkids just like he did his own children.

jmo

[mrsmcgoo]

It sure shows MJ has been an addict for a very long time. jmo

Right!

And LE had and HAS an obligation to protect the public from Dr.'s that operate this way. Not giving MJ a pass, but situations like this are why so many people are dying from prescription drug abuse.

JMO

[KatieLady]

I don't know the reasons or how it is going to work either, but at least she is trying. From reports I have heard, she has filed one. I guess we'll see if it works. Maybe it will be part of the reasons she will use to gain custody. If the grandmother gets them, he will have access to them.

jmo

I agree.....IMO that is exactly what she will use. I'd like to be there (if and when) it happens. Joe will be learning that his past behavior has caught up to him...finally!

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I am shocked that the LE had clear evidence that drugs were being written and obtained in an illegal manner, yet they didn't do anything?! They need to be called on this. :cursing:

So to me, as much as I blame MJ for his own drug use, I also blame LE for NOT do anything back in 2004. Disgusts me!

JMO

Actually I hold all the medical people even more accountable..as Doctors take the "Hippocratic Oath"..which outlines their eithical responsibilities~~

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocratic_oath

The Hippocratic Oath is an oath traditionally taken by physicians pertaining to the ethical practice of medicine. It is widely believed that the oath was written by Hippocrates, the father of western medicine, in the 4th century BC, or by one of his students.[1] It is thus usually included in the Hippocratic Corpus. Classical scholar Ludwig Edelstein proposed that the oath was written by Pythagoreans, a theory that has been questioned due to the lack of evidence for a school of Pythagorean medicine.[2] The phrase "Above all, do no harm" is usually attributed to the oath. Although mostly of historical and traditional value, the oath is considered a rite of passage for practitioners of medicine, although nowadays the modernized version of the text varies among the countries


Being a medical practitioner myself..I hold this oath sacrosanct to this profession!

LMS:angry:

[KatieLady]

IMO that is all hype. Didn't DR deny that article?

I'm not sure Athena. There have been so many flying around. lol

[Firehead11]

I agree. Well it seems like now ANS's and MJ's deaths are finally bringing this national crisis to the forefront. Can't understand why what they are trying to do now didn't happen after Elvis' death. These doctors are worse than street drug-pushers because they are supposed to adhere to a code of ethics. :angry:


Athena, you know I just recently came back here but have the rules changed so much? I see many a poster posting things without a link to back it up?

Good Morning !

[Tokyo Rose]

which one IIRC said he would not allow them to leave Neverland? I may be wrong but thought it was a employee..so there was more than just 2 and they were both paid off..I never was a huge fan so I dont recall the 3rd..:confused:

The first boy was the maid's son. The second boy was Jordy Chandler. The third boy was the one who was not allowed to leave Neverland. That was the trial. There were three we have heard about.

jmo

[aproudmom]

Morning everone..I brought this over from yesterday's thread..and once again, I fell off my chair..I reiterate..Why was this not ( drug and medical parphenalia) addressed back then...Michael would be alive today if it had been!!

Originally Posted by FallenAngel♥
WOW

Santa Barbara County Sheriff's deputies who raided Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch back in 2003 found a syringe, powerful narcotics, vials and IV bags containing what could be anesthesia.


-- A vial of Versed -- a powerful sedative
-- Several IV bags containing "a milky white fluid, located in a small cardboard box on top of the bathtub." Propofol and other anesthesias are milky white. As we first reported, Propofol was in Jackson's home the day he died.
-- A vial of Promethazine -- an antihistamine with strong sedative effects
-- A bottle of Alprazolam (generic for Xanax, a powerful anti-anxiety drug)
-- A bottle of Percocet -- a painkiller
-- A syringe
-- A vial with Demerol in it
-- Numerous loose pills outside bottles
-- A bottle of Prednisone -- a steroid
-- Ery-tab -- an antibiotic
-- Prescriptions for Xanax that had been filled
-- A prescription for Alprazolam
-- Oxygen tanks
-- IV stands


http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/10/raid-a...d-heavy-drugs/

Why wasn't someone charged back then?


I just knew that using "Sleep therapy" was NOT something new in MJ's life....and this fact would cooroberate the reporting of "Track Marks" and collapsed veins ( we call sclerotic veins) found on Michael upon autopsy...

Man oh man..what a crying shame !!!

LMS:glare:

ok I knew they did not return stuff to him after he was found NG ..but I think they should have wondered why he would have all those things..some are very common but some are not as we know but then I wonder why a Court of law and a judge would not find it odd he owed so much to 1 pharmacy also..

[kjt200]

The latest gossip (let's call it what it is) is that Joe and Jermaine Jackson are the ones pushing hard for the burial at Neverland. Clearly it is for the money potential.

There are many things I am curious about, but the main one is Katherine Jackson. She holds all of the cards in that family now, not Joe. My hope is that she finds empowerment and does what she thinks is right. I've heard that the trust could be broken into two different distributions of the 40% left to Katherine:

1. She can do whatever she wants with it. This means she could give as much money to Joe and her children as she wants. Is there enough money to take care of all of them for the rest of their lives? Probably not right now, but surely would be with future earnings. Would it be enough for the siblings if they could live comfortably (minus Janet as she has her own wealth) or do some or all of the siblings yearn for the fame and fortune Michael had? Are they nuts enough to think the world will launch them back to the stardom they enjoyed as young people? I think Jermaine may think so............

2. The 40% is given for "Katherine's Use" and she has to submit annual budgets and documentation for monies spent. This would make it much harder for her to take care of all the family members. What would you do if you were Michael Jackson and setting up the trust? Are you bitter that your family seemed to to view you as a cash cow and try to stop that dynamic through the trust? Do you think that despite everything they are family and set it up for your mom to take care of them financially? It's hard to tell.

As said, I just hope Katherine Jackson embraces the power granted to her through this will. Her husband is like a used car dealer and won't stop unless she firmly puts her foot down. If I were her, I would just buy him off and make sure he faded away...........

Thanks for listening. Sorry for the long post. My own opinion. Be well.

[aproudmom]

<snip>

Why do you continue to bring up this BS when CW has asked that we not rehash the trial? We are supposed to be discussing current news and all this does is serve to derail the thread.

:ohmy:sorry I did reply cause I never knew some of the stuff..

[Tokyo Rose]

No -- we are supposed to provide links although you are correct in that many do not. :rolleyes:

I thought we could have our opinions as long as we advise in our posts they are our opinions. I never heard a link had to be given for every post.:confused:

[lilismom]

I agree.....IMO that is exactly what she will use. I'd like to be there (if and when) it happens. Joe will be learning that his past behavior has caught up to him...finally!

Being completely left out of the Will and Trust by MJ is a HUGE payback for his past as well. The biggest one there is in fact. MJ and the team that drew up those papers knew exactly what they were doing.

IMO,
Lilismom

[KatieLady]

I thought we could have our opinions as long as we advise in our posts they are our opinions. I never heard a link had to be given for every post.:confused:

not for an opinion IMO Only if stated as fact

[KatieLady]

Being completely left out of the Will and Trust by MJ is a HUGE payback for his past as well. The biggest one there is in fact. MJ and the team that drew up those papers knew exactly what they were doing.

IMO,
Lilismom

Yes they did. Along with the statement that he left nothing to DR on purpose. I believe that stops her from being able to contest the will IMO

[Tokyo Rose]

Im not sure it would be an addiction as much as it was to a liking of peers. I believe MJ stopped emotional growth at a young age (11-15) and needed those boys around to feel. He searched for comraderie for a very long time.... Brooke Shields, Madonna, Corey Feldman, Emmanual Lewis, and more... these people were huge and slipped into stardom in a huge way. It was a connection .... he understood them, is how they came to be with him. Remember these people were always on HIS (MJ's) invite.. not the other way around.

He moved on to lesser knowns because the "addiction" if you want to label it, was expanding. He wanted to explore some personal things and needed people that would worship him. It was his only barometer of love.

Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why he put beverages into soda cans and called it Jesus Juice? ... There is nothing okay about that. It is a deliberate attempt to deceive the person drinking it. And furthermore, why? What was the need to deceive?

~le sigh~
isnt there a saying.. something to do with religion? "whited sepature" or something like that? (sorry I cant recall the exact phrase, maybe someone with more religious background than I.)


He put wine in soda cans mixed with the soda and called it "Jesus Juice". He gave this to the boys. Of course the boys he chose to give it to would get loose and happy. jmo

[lilismom]

Yes they did. Along with the statement that he left nothing to DR on purpose. I believe that stops her from being able to contest the will IMO


I heard, I think on CNN, that there was a "no-contest" clause in the Trust documents. Meaning that if anyone named in the Will contests it, they are automatically disinherited. MJ knew what would happen and took the necessary steps to stop it. From the grave. Expertly drafted.

IMO,
Lilismom

[aproudmom]

I agree. Well it seems like now ANS's and MJ's deaths are finally bringing this national crisis to the forefront. Can't understand why what they are trying to do now didn't happen after Elvis' death. These doctors are worse than street drug-pushers because they are supposed to adhere to a code of ethics. This is really sad and it affects us in all walks of life that start out taking prescription drugs legitimately and build up a tolerance to them until they just take more and more and more...... These were just exposed because it happened to celebrities. :angry:

very true..and xanax is one of them..it is a fast acting drug but does not stay in your system as long a say klonopin and your body needs more and more if you start abusing it..I know I take it and fought the docs for years because I never wanted to be addicted to something. but 2 years ago I had to after losing my uncle and a nasty divorce but I take the lowest dose and take less than I am even prescribed only as needed..but I can see someone becoming addicted to Benzidine's and pain meds very easy..

[KatieLady]

BS. MJ was NEVER seen giving any children alcohol. They helped themselves when he wasn't even at NL. Again - you need to research this. These were not the innocent children some are trying to make them out to be - they were street-wise south LA kids who tried to shake down everyone they met. There are links all over this board re: this. :rolleyes:

Athena, this may be true but who was the adult in that house? Who left them unattended with liquor available? I can't believe that you would blame the kids and not MJ for this. Amazes me!

[~layla~]

brought over from last thread:

" 07-10-2009, 09:50 AM
Athena2
Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 3,254

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~layla~
It is, you are not confused.


edited to address the payoffs.

I think Jordan Chandler should either give ALL the money back... meaning ANYTHING he earned or bought or recieved due to the money that MJ paid him and/or his family (and I mean every single dime and item) ..... or STHU. I think JC feels a sense of guilt because he was a kid, and his parents may or may not have been greedy.... but all the talk about him has not feeling so great about life/himself/family/whatever.

Personally, I do believe he was molested. I think the payoff money was to shut them up... ALL of the family. I think they took it and gladly walked away, but Jordan wasnt grown, his life wasnt his own at that point. Today it is, and hindsight and all..... maybe the money means nothing because his name is forever connected to MJ in the most salicious way. Im sure he doesnt like it.


__________________________________________________ __________
His father got the bulk of the money (laylas response.. dont know who wrote that, but wasnt me)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

That's not true. His father got 2 million and so did his mother.

The 20 million plus was secured in a special needs trust for JC.

JC has since changed his name and has moved quite a few times. Oh...and he hasn't really spoken to his mother in all these years....he blames her for basically selling him.

IMO

If you believe he was molested, why should he give the money back or STHU? If you have a link to an interview he gave, or know he's off running his mouth somewhere ...please link it.



I can only address my writings.. (not sure about bulk of the money etc)
Yes I know he hasnt spoken to his mother.... makes no diff to me.

The idea is out there about him recanting. If you recant and say NOTHING ever happened .... my family made me... someone put words in my mouth.... whatever it is he has said to people that got these words out (no link, just what Ive read in the last few years/days) then he needs to give it all back.... start his life over and deal with life as it comes. Period.
That kid isnt deserving of any passes that his parents arent. He is an adult now.. he could have gone to an atty and said.. hey I want no part of this.... this isnt me... my parents are crazy.. make it stop and I want to go life on my own, be my own man, pay for my own education, cars, homes etc.
He did NOTHING of the sort. He has taken that money and made a life for himself.... good or bad. So that makes it seem as if he wasnt that upset about the "blood money" his parents supposedly sold him out for.

btw. I do think he was molested. I think his family took the money on his and their own behalf so I really think JC has no right to say a thing other than... yes I was molested and I accepted the money when I turned 18 or no, I wasnt molested, my parents sold me to the payout, and here ... I dont want it, its blood money and I dont feel like its mine to live a nice decent life with.

[*Serenity*]

BS. MJ was NEVER seen giving any children alcohol. They helped themselves when he wasn't even at NL. Again - you need to research this. These were not the innocent children some are trying to make them out to be - they were street-wise south LA kids who tried to shake down everyone they met. There are links all over this board re: this. :rolleyes:

Hi Athena

This video clip has a lot of the information in which you have repeatedly supplied for posters here. :) I especially like the dates
provided in the clip and KJ speaking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lVUvOLdg50

[KatieLady]

I certainly hope that you and some others here never serve on a jury.
IMO

I always thought that personal attacks were against TOS :confused:

[~layla~]

I certainly hope that you and some others here never serve on a jury.
IMO

Sorry to disappoint you, I have served on a jury.
I dont think you should be the decider of such tasks. Even on a messege board.

[GentleBreeze]

While MJ's drug addition was huge, I believe his addition to little boys was far worse. I had forgotten about MJ's maid's little boy. After the little boy told his mother, MJ settled to the tune of 2 million.

While some may say he was a target of scam artists, I think it highly unlikely he could be so unlucky as to have three boys, that we know of, accuse him of exactly the same thing.

If the third boy's mother had of accepted the offered payoff, he wouldn't have had to suffer through a trial that time either.

JMO

Really? Three children and he was 50 years old and around 100s or 1000s of children during those decades?

Here is what I think.

IMOO, I think it takes a very naive person to think they would never settle a case if they were innocent. For years, I, have said that over and over for years but of course I can do that because I have never come face to face with a false allegation that could not only ruin my own life but the lives of my family as well. So in the recent days I have seriously thought about what I really would do if faced with the worst nightmare in the world.

I have come to the conclusion if I had MJs money I would want to make it all go away and I would do so in a heartbeat. This is the worst allegation that can be lodged against anyone. Even if the person is found NG of wrongdoing it doesn't stop the ruination. That is blatantly obvious that is true in THIS very case.

It is also naive thinking imo that the accused would demand to go to criminal court instead and rolling the loaded dice where their life is held in the palm of only 12 people. Going to trial is like playing Russian Roulette. Never have I seen anyone that was innocent calling a Prosecutor and telling them they wanted them to try them in a court of law.

I do not believe for one second that MJ was a child molester but he was an easy target and rather stubborn. Even after the insurance company settled he would not change having sleepovers with children. IMO, he stubbornly, immaturely and foolishly thought since he knew he had done nothing to harm children if he changed his pattern then that would be affirming that something he had done was wrong.

I think that MJ was a man/child totally caught up in a child's world unless he was on center stage performing. Dr. K even said that when he and his staff had toured one time with him that MJ could not sleep and they ALL had to go lay down in his bedroom and stay in the room with him so he could sleep.

A lot of what happened in his childhood he could not shake. No birthday celebrations, no Christmas gifts, no celebrating them at all and the only comfort he seemed to have remembered was sleeping in one bedroom with all of his brothers. That is when he felt secure and not alone.

So while having sleepovers with children is not the norm for adults to do neither is having to have adults in the room too so he can sleep. But neither one proves he molested any children. MJ never denied he had sleepovers with children.

Of course he also told people years and years ago that he had Vitilio but once again MJs truth was pushed aside and his thoughts replaced by the media's gossip and rumors who has made billions from this man's pain and suffering and they will extend it as far as it will reach. He was their favorite cash cow, they couldn't be happier that he has died so they once again can crush him into the ground as the ratings go up and the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ comes pouring in.

imo

[Tokyo Rose]

BS. MJ was NEVER seen giving any children alcohol. They helped themselves when he wasn't even at NL. Again - you need to research this. These were not the innocent children some are trying to make them out to be - they were street-wise south LA kids who tried to shake down everyone they met. There are links all over this board re: this. :rolleyes:

They helped themselves? LOL How would any kid know what he called his little concoction unless he told them when giving it to them.

Now the children are to blame?

Excuses, Excuses.

jmo

[Pretty Leaf]

Do not know how to bring over a post from last night so this is my attempt

Initial post by me
Page 13
Post 507
July 09


Personally I am on a ****load of medication for my health issues prescibed by a specialist.The highest dosage my family doc has ever seen, enough to fell a horse was his exact word,

So I can take it and have no signs I am taking them but most of you would be flat out. So you cannot take a dosageand say wow look at how much, not the same for everyone.

Reply
Posted by ScoobieDoo
Page 13
Post 511
Thurs Julty 10

Hopefully the next thread won't have your name on its title.



My reply today

No matter how many try to explain something there is still ignorance on this board. I take you reply personally offensive and I suggest you actually educate yourself and write constructive posts rather than your reply as listed above.

[Tokyo Rose]

Really? Three children and he was 50 years old and around 100s of children during those decades?

Here is what I think.

IMOO, I think it takes a very naive person to think they would never settle a case if they were innocent. For years, I, have said that over and over for years but of course I can do that because I have never come face to face with a false allegation that could not only ruin my own life but the lives of my family as well. So in the recent days I have seriously thought about what I really would do if faced with the worst nightmare in the world.

I have come to the conclusion if I had MJs money I would want to make it all go away and I would do so in a heartbeat. This is the worst allegation that can be lodged against anyone. Even if the person is found NG of wrongdoing it doesn't stop the ruination. That is blatantly obvious that is true in THIS very case.

It is also naive thinking imo that the accused would demand to go to criminal court instead and rolling the loaded dice where their life is held in the palm of only 12 people. Going to trial is like playing Russian Roulette. Never have I seen anyone that was innocent calling a Prosecutor and telling them they wanted them to try them in a court of law.

I do not believe for one second that MJ was a child molester but he was an easy target and rather stubborn. Even after the insurance company settled he would not change having sleepovers with children. IMO, he stubbornly, immaturely and foolishly thought since he knew he had done nothing to harm children if he changed his pattern then that would be affirming that something he had done was wrong.

I think that MJ was a man/child totally caught up in a child's world unless he was on center stage performing. Dr. K even said that when he and his staff had toured one time with him that MJ could not sleep and they ALL had to go lay down in his bedroom and stay in the room with him so he could sleep.

A lot of what happened in his childhood he could not shake. No birthday celebrations, no Christmas gifts, no celebrating them at all and the only comfort he seemed to have remembered was sleeping in one bedroom with all of his brothers. That is when he felt secure and not alone.

So while having sleepovers with children is not the norm for adults to do neither is having to have adults in the room too so he can sleep. But neither one proves he molested any children. MJ never denied he had sleepovers with children.

Of course he also told people years and years ago that he had Vitilio but once again MJs truth was pushed aside and his thoughts replaced by the media's gossip and rumors who has made billions from this man's pain and suffering and they will extend it as far as it will reach. He was their favorite cash cow, they couldn't be happier that he has died so they once again can crush him into the ground as the ratings go up and the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ comes pouring in.

imo

Three that we know of. Yes, three is a lot to know about. Actually one is too many wouldn't you say? jmo

[cutiepatootie61]

Not sure how it works but that was 40 years ago. Unless Joe had hit the grandkids or threatened them in some way I don't know that 40 year old allegations would be enough to get an RO :shrug:

I thought LaToya and another sibling had alledged sexual abuse by Joe Jackson as well as physical.... I will try to find a link. I know he was never charged formerly, but the rumor mill is full of Joe Jackson allegations.

[KatieLady]

PrettyLeaf...personal attacks, instead of discussing the posts, seem to be in abundance here :sad:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Apparantly MJ had been offered yet another potent "Painkiller"..Yikes do these doctors have no shame..shopping around themselves trying to find yet another nail to put into MJ's coffin!!

http://www.tmz.com/category/michael-jackson/

Jackson Doc Offers 'Potent Narcotic' Solution
Posted Jul 10th 2009 2:20AM by TMZ Staff

One of Michael Jackson's doctors wanted Michael Jackson to trade his dependence on Demerol for another "potent narcotic."

Dr. Alex Farshchian wrote Michael Jackson a letter -- dated July 21, 2002 -- in which he writes, "Buprinex (sic) is the potent narcotic I told you about last week. It is just like the D but better." Buprenex is an injectable narcotic painkiller.

Here's what I could find on that drug:

http://www.drugs.com/cdi/buprenex.html

Interesting tidbit:

Before using Buprenex :
Some medical conditions may interact with Buprenex . Tell your doctor or pharmacist if you have any medical conditions, especially if any of the following apply to you:
if you are pregnant, planning to become pregnant, or are breast-feeding
if you are taking any prescription or nonprescription medicine, herbal preparation, or dietary supplement
if you have allergies to medicines, foods, or other substances
if you have a history of blood or electrolyte problems, breathing or lung problems (eg, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease), underactive thyroid, adrenal gland problems (eg, Addison disease), liver or kidney problems, an enlarged prostate gland, trouble urinating, a blockage of your bladder or urethra, gallbladder problems, or stomach problems
if you have a history of recent head injury, growths in the brain (eg, tumor), or increased pressure in the brain, or muscle problems (eg, myasthenia gravis)
if you have a history of mental or mood problems, drug or alcohol abuse, or if you have a physical dependence on narcotic medicines (eg, morphine) or other opiates (eg, heroin)
Some MEDICINES MAY INTERACT with Buprenex . Tell your health care provider if you are taking any other medicines, especially any of the following:

Azole antifungals (eg, ketoconazole), HIV protease inhibitors (eg, ritonavir), or macrolide antibiotics (eg, erythromycin) because the side effects of Buprenex may be increased
Benzodiazepines (eg, diazepam), cimetidine, narcotic pain medicine (eg, codeine), phenothiazines (eg, chlorpromazine), or sodium oxybate (GHB) because the risk of severe drowsiness, severe breathing problems, and seizures may be increased
Naltrexone or rifampin because the effectiveness of Buprenex may be decreased
Methadone because effectiveness may be decreased by Buprenex
This may not be a complete list of all interactions that may occur. Ask your health care provider if Buprenex may interact with other medicines that you take. Check with your health care provider before you start, stop, or change the dose of any medicine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buprenex

Contraindication
Like full agonist opiates, buprenorphine can cause drowsiness, vomiting and respiratory depression. Taking buprenorphine in conjunction with central nervous system (CNS) depressants such as sedatives, hypnotics, tranquilizers, alcohol, and especially benzodiazepines can be particularly dangerous.[16] Falling asleep while abusing this drug, especially while combining it with other central nervous system depressants, can be extremely dangerous and thus greatly increases the chance of serious complications or death.


[edit] Recreational use
Buprenorphine is also used recreationally, typically by opioid users. Typical effects include analgesia, a sense of euphoria and increased verbal communication

It sure does seem that Michael was offered a smorgasboard of drugs to get whatever effect he wanted..

My goodness, I guess I knew this stuff went on..however when a famous person dies from a diet of treatments they agree to, it makes it far more likely to be exposed, and dealt with !! At least I hope that MJ's and ANS's case truly help to correct this!!

LMS

[kjt200]

First of all Neverland had nothing to do with Katherine or Joe Jackson. The executors and the current deed holder have control over Neverland.

I believe MJ would want to be buried there and quite frankly, I believe his remains would be more secure there with all these grave robbers out here drooling at the mouth. JMO



I don't believe that the executors have any say on where Michael Jackson will be laid to rest. That is the decision of his family. I believe it is his mother who will legally make that final decision. If the family determines that Neverland is the proper place, then the executors and current deed holders come into play. Maybe it will be possible, maybe it won't be. That remains to be seen.

It seems that Mr. Jackson did not specify where he would like to laid to rest. It seems that he didn't mention Neverland one way or another in his will. I don't think anyone who didn't know him really has the ability to "know where he wanted to be buried." How in the world is that possible? It has been said that his mother believes that Michael never wanted to return to Neverland as he considered it tainted. If true, that's good enough for me...who am I to question that further?

Oh and one more thing. I am not aware that of a celebrity grave robbing ring is running rampant. Celebrities are buried all over and I've yet to hear of even one being dug up by a crazed grave robber. I think sometimes we can tend to let our imaginations get the better of us.

Thanks for listening. My own opinion. Be well.

[cutiepatootie61]

I thought LaToya and another sibling had alledged sexual abuse by Joe Jackson as well as physical.... I will try to find a link. I know he was never charged formerly, but the rumor mill is full of Joe Jackson allegations.

Oops... sorry I take it back as she later recanted the claim..



Joe and Reebie denied LaToya’s claims. Latoya, whose singing career was short-lived, later recanted her claims

http://www.chicagodefender.com/article-1453-joe-jackson-turns-80.html

[~layla~]

Junkies run out of veins...yes, they often use their legs, necks, hands, feet...etc...IMO

Some of us that have never used an IV drug run out of veins. They can put in ports so we dont have to go through the pain of trying to find a vein only to have it roll or collapse as the needle is threaded in. (Mostly cancer patients with chemo get the chest/neck port)
I know from exp. It sucks. Ive never used IV drugs in my life except in the hosp.... yet you cant imagine the looks and distain I get from people when I have to tell them... get the best in the hosp... or call my doc over to explain to them. My life is very much in danger at this point.... time is of the essence for the IV to go in. Ive gladly volunteered my legs, feet, chest... any vein I can see for them to use. Its very scary. Trust me Ive asked for them to use my feet or femoral... they always tell me no. (not yet).... there are other options still because I think those are the last. Even a neck IV has been used over the veins in my feet.

[Tokyo Rose]

I certainly hope that you and some others here never serve on a jury.
IMO

Let me see if this is OK with you. It's OK to give underage little boys booze? One who was fighting cancer and didn't have a kidney or a spleen?

[who_is_it]

Jackson Docs Not Cooperating, Coroner Claims

"Law enforcement sources tell TMZ two doctors who treated Michael Jackson have not been forthcoming with their medical records.

Sources say Dr. Arnold Klein and Dr. Conrad Murray have not turned over the medical records the L.A. County Coroner's office has requested. We're told both doctors have turned over some records, but the coroner's office has not gotten the complete file from either doctor.

And there's this ... We've learned a driver for Michael Jackson told coroner's officials shortly after Jackson's death that the singer was going to Dr. Klein's office multiple times a week in the months preceding his death and sometimes would spend 3 to 4 hours inside"

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/10/michael-jackson-doctors-not-cooperating-coroner-claims/

Dr. Klein is my suspect #1 from the beginning on (imo).

[GentleBreeze]

Three that we know of. Yes, three is a lot to know about. Actually one is too many wouldn't you say? jmo

Yes, it is very sad that mothers or fathers will extort money from those who only befriended their child.

It is equally sad that a case can be brought against someone when the allegations had no credibility in the first place.

He was target. Three in all those years makes me very glad that the countless other parents and children did not stoop to extorting money from a wealthy man they knew loved children.

imo

[Tokyo Rose]

Do you realize there are parents who use their kids to get money in any ways, be damned the consequence? Why would you think that someone who can commit welfare fraud is above using her child as a cash cow?

jmo

First of all those are way different crimes for you to hang your hat on. Her son had cancer or didn't you know that? I really don't believe she would go along with Jesus Juice for money. jmo

Excuses, Excuses. It's the parents or the kids or LE or the prosecutor, but in NO WAY is it innocent MJ. jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

Yes, it is very sad that mothers or fathers will extort money from those who only befriended their child.

It is equally sad that a case can be brought against someone when the allegations had no credibility in the first place.

He was target. Three in all those years makes me very glad that the countless other parents and children did not stoop to extorting money from a wealthy man they knew loved children.

imo

That we know of. jmo Three is too many, don't you think? One is too many. jmo
Excuses. jmo

[aproudmom]

That's the problem -- when people rehash this stuff - we do want to reply so as not to let falsehoods spread. But it just gets old -- and derails the thread when someone continues to repeat the same BS over and over again on every thread. I will just put her on iggy now so I don't have to read it. :shrug:

K sorry about that my bad..I was just totally lost by the number 3
do you need a hug today Athena..:wink:

[*Serenity*]

Yes, it is very sad that mothers or fathers will extort money from those who only befriended their child.

It is equally sad that a case can be brought against someone when the allegations had no credibility in the first place.

He was target. Three in all those years makes me very glad that the countless other parents and children did not stoop to extorting money from a wealthy man they knew loved children.

imo

Hi GB :)

The youtube link I posted had KJ speaking, and her words about this mess speak volumes, especially at the very end of the clip. She drives the message home loud and clear. In my opinion.

[who_is_it]

While MJ's drug addition was huge, I believe his addition to little boys was far worse. I had forgotten about MJ's maid's little boy. After the little boy told his mother, MJ settled to the tune of 2 million.

While some may say he was a target of scam artists, I think it highly unlikely he could be so unlucky as to have three boys, that we know of, accuse him of exactly the same thing.

If the third boy's mother had of accepted the offered payoff, he wouldn't have had to suffer through a trial that time either.

JMO

Here you go how a juror reacted after he was on the stand:

Reporter Says Jackson Juror Mocked Witness

"All I heard was, 'He was like uh-huh-huh (imitating a crying sound),' and then I heard laughter. It sounded like they had just heard this kid crying, and they were kind of laughing at what had happened, mimicking him."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,1046011,00.html

Btw, I've read his testimony, too. He claimed he has mental problems because his thigh was once touched when playing in shorts at Neverland.

Sneddon didn't find any witnesses who could confirm what the AV claimed; so he had to put this laughing stock on the stand.

[GentleBreeze]

That we know of. jmo Three is too many, don't you think? One is too many. jmo
Excuses. jmo

Yes, three is way too many.

False allegations can ruin someone's life.

MJ stated he did not molest children. Even when he settled to relieve the threats and stress he did not admit to any wrong doing in fact he was adamant he had not molested anyone.

So three unsupported allegations is way too many but really not shocking since this people were perfectly willing for MJ to be around their child. But they had to see that happened beforehand for the extortion to work.

imo

[*Serenity*]

Yes, you are absolutely right and I am very very sorry for your difficultly!

In my opinion, MJ's collapsed veins were due to his being a junkie...not from any legitimate condition. I should have been clearer. Please accept my apology.

WOW ... did the autopsy report come out describing collapsed veins, or is this from the tabloid (The Sun) which was debunked from the coroners office the very next day about the false autopsy claims.

Guess I missed the release of the report, where I can locate this?

Thanks in advance.

[GentleBreeze]

Why are all of those former bed buddies so strangely quiet now? Not a one showed up or issued a statement to my knowledge.

Who in their right mind would want to get in the middle of this smear campaign?

Why should they speak out?

imo

[Tokyo Rose]

Here you go how a juror reacted after he was on the stand:

Reporter Says Jackson Juror Mocked Witness

"All I heard was, 'He was like uh-huh-huh (imitating a crying sound),' and then I heard laughter. It sounded like they had just heard this kid crying, and they were kind of laughing at what had happened, mimicking him."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,1046011,00.html

Btw, I've read his testimony, too. He claimed he has mental problems because his thigh was once touched when playing in shorts at Neverland.

Sneddon didn't find any witnesses who could confirm what the AV claimed; so he had to put this laughing stock on the stand.


That was when a mistrial should have happened. It's obvious the jury was tainted. jmo

[Firehead11]

WITH DEATH, AN END TO JACKSON'S FALSE ABUSE ACCUSATIONS

You could say that Michael Jackson not only was the King of Pop, but also the King of False Accusations, as the hearsay against him over a decade and a half gave false child sex abuse charges a face and put the subject on the map. He is gone, now, and while I know his music will live forever I'm hopeful, too, the taboo subject of false child sex abuse charges will be addressed by our legislature with a repeal of the Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA). One thing is for certain - Michael Jackson will never be falsely accused of child abuse, again!

http://www.newswithviews.com/Tong/dean117.htm

In all honesty, I doubt that this is true. I am waiting for others to come forward now. Look at the woman who claimed she was the mother of all 3 children, was his widow, wanted all of his estate turned over to her now... There are plenty of sick people who just might take a stab at trying to get money from the estate. It happened during his life, I can see it happening after his death.

[who_is_it]

Let me see if this is OK with you. It's OK to give underage little boys booze? One who was fighting cancer and didn't have a kidney or a spleen?

It's worse to use the tragic disease cancer to make money...:

"USA Today reported on March 1, 2005, that the mother used the boy as a prop to get money from Mike Tyson, Adam Sandler, Jim Carrey, Jay Leno and others, "even though insurance was paying his bills."
http://www.counterpunch.org/reed06292009.html

[Tokyo Rose]

Who in their right mind would want to get in the middle of this smear campaign?

Why should they speak out?

imo

To help their innocent friend MJ??? To say they were never molested?

jmo

[who_is_it]

In all honesty, I doubt that this is true. I am waiting for others to come forward now. Look at the woman who claimed she was the mother of all 3 children, was his widow, wanted all of his estate turned over to her now... There are plenty of sick people who just might take a stab at trying to get money from the estate. It happened during his life, I can see it happening after his death.

I believe the same. Others who want to make money will come forward with false allegations.

[magnolia]

BS. MJ was NEVER seen giving any children alcohol. They helped themselves when he wasn't even at NL. Again - you need to research this. These were not the innocent children some are trying to make them out to be - they were street-wise south LA kids who tried to shake down everyone they met. There are links all over this board re: this. :rolleyes:

Bolding is mine. WOW...can't believe what I'm reading. These savvy teenagers shook down eveyone they met, did they?

[GentleBreeze]

WOW ... did the autopsy report come out describing collapsed veins, or is this from the tabloid (The Sun) which was debunked from the coroners office the very next day about the false autopsy claims.

Guess I missed the release of the report, where I can locate this?

Thanks in advance.

It shows perfectly how all the media has to do is put anything...anything at all out there for consumption and they know the viewers/readers will gobble it up hook, line and sinker.

Never mind that the MEs office made a statement that the tabloid trash article was filled with false information. It is accepted as truth. That is where we are getting our news from now and the cable networks have become just as cheesy as the tabloids.

Amazing the power that the media has. They say it. The people believe it.:rolleyes:

imo

[Tokyo Rose]

It's worse to use the tragic disease cancer to make money...:

"USA Today reported on March 1, 2005, that the mother used the boy as a prop to get money from Mike Tyson, Adam Sandler, Jim Carrey, Jay Leno and others, "even though insurance was paying his bills."
http://www.counterpunch.org/reed06292009.html

So that makes it ok for MJ to feed him Jesus Juice?

[who_is_it]

That was when a mistrial should have happened. It's obvious the jury was tainted. jmo

If someone claims he suffers from psychological damage because his thigh was touched -- many years after this happened -- I couldn't help laughing, too. Like Rev. Al Sharpton said: MJ "wasn't strange. There were strange things he had to deal with." :blink:

[who_is_it]

Yea --he "groomed" them so well she met with a Civil Attorney PRIOR to the family ever meeting Michael Jackson. This was all brought out during the trial. Also MJ was sooooo stupid he molested this boy AFTER the Bashir documentary. If anyone believes that I have a bridge to sell. JMO

Yep, that's the "best" part of the grifter story. MJ first announced it on tv ..., then the AV spoke to social workers who much fun it is to be around MJ... and then MJ allegedly molested him. Hahaha!

[GentleBreeze]

Let me remind everyone too that not ONE BUT TWO grand juries FAILED TO INDICT MJ for the 1993 allegations.

Two Grand Juries which consisted of 24 peers in two different counties, an extensive search of Michael Jackson’s Neverland Ranch, Century City condo, his parent’s Encino home, and even Michael Jackson’s body search, interviews with over 200 men, women, boys and girls, and even traveling out of the country to interview witnesses, did not produce any evidence to support a criminal indictment for child molestation.

http://site2.mjeol.com/redemption-excerpt/das-admit-civil-case-had-nothing-to-do-with-criminal-case-redemption-excerpt.html

WOW! I had forgotten about all that.

It makes me so sad........so very sad.

No wonder he over medicated himself. I don't see how he withstood it all.

imo

[Tokyo Rose]

If someone claims he suffers from psychological damage because his thigh was touched -- many years after this happened -- I couldn't help laughing, too. Like Rev. Al Sharpton said: MJ "wasn't strange. There were strange things he had to deal with." :blink:

It should have been a mistrial and you should never be on a jury. imo

[who_is_it]

Really? Then why didn't ANY of those listed testify to that???

I don't know why the mentioned celebrities weren't on the witness stand. The one who confirmed what the others claimed was Chris Tucker.

[Tokyo Rose]

Why didn't he just give them pills and tell them they were aspirin and knock them out? Maybe he could have shared his anesthesia? I just cant take the word of some kid under the influence of his scam artist mother,not buying it.

jmo

Maybe he did. There was enough pills around. It's easier to give something in a soda to a child. jmo

[lilismom]

Hmmm..... seems to me 12 jurors acquitted him due to lack of evidence.

Athena - I didn't follow the trial AT ALL. Would you mind sending me what you think is the best link to "read all about it"?

Thanks.

IMO,
Lilismom

[who_is_it]

Can you even possible imagine how difficult it is for a man to tell the world he was molested?

One victim of a Catholic Priest even killed himself before he was to take the stand.


I really don't understand why it's so difficult for some to grasp the reluctance and unwillingness of victims of sexual assault to speak up and out. It's a tragic, painful, personal and private thing. And sadly, it's incredible embarrassing.

If there had been the suspicion of molestation at least close-ones would have known about it imo... As far as I remember nobody - not even the media - ever mentioned that the man was molested.

[who_is_it]

Jay Leno was....why don't you look up what he said.

:confused:

"Leno, 55, explained that the voice on the other end of the phone sounded "overly effusive," very grown-up and "a little scripted," the Associated Press reports. But he said the boy never asked for money."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,1065018,00.html

Despite the last sentence I believe to recall he said something different in a police interview. But I could be wrong.

[aproudmom]

OK this is my opinion and I will only say it 1 time because as Athena said we are to be talking about current things not the allegations..when I took a break off of here because of all the nasty comments I watched the Martin B doc on YouTube his interview with Oprah and IIRC one with dateline..IMO MB made MJ look like something he was not it almost made me ill..yes he was holding the kids hand but the kid even said he would sleep in the floor and so on I am sure you all have seen it I just see it in a different light that kid was almost as big as he was.. MJ loved children he wanted to make sure if they were ill he helped and in the long run he paid his NG verdict did not matter he was already broken by then how far and how much can 1 person deal with..should he have stopped after the first time YES but his words IMO were twisted in that doc I read some physcologist no link but anyway he said MJ in his opinion was not a child molester he had the peter pan syndrome a man living pretty much in a child's body because he never had that he had no childhood...all JMO

OK done talking about the allegations and trial he was found NG

[GentleBreeze]

Yea --he "groomed" them so well she met with a Civil Attorney PRIOR to the family ever meeting Michael Jackson. This was all brought out during the trial. Also MJ was sooooo stupid he molested this boy AFTER the Bashir documentary. If anyone believes that I have a bridge to sell. JMO

I was amazed that there were people who really thought he molested the boy after the documentary.:lol:

Unbelievable. LOL!

[who_is_it]

It should have been a mistrial and you should never be on a jury. imo

Who's judgemental?!

[Tokyo Rose]

I was amazed that there were people who really thought he molested the boy after the documentary.:lol:

Unbelievable. LOL!

I wonder if I saw the same documentary as you? The one where he admitted to sleeping with boys?

[~layla~]

I suggest you do some reading about pedophiles and the molestation of male children. The fact is...most boys NEVER tell. Most pedophiles molest upwards of 35 children before one speaks up. You should also educate yourself about pedophiles grooming habits. Typically they allow "cool" things parents would never permit. Like drinking, cursing and viewing porn. They carefully select their prey..and their parents. They don't just groom the children...they groom the parents too by gaining their trust.

I agree. He did "groom" the parents.. even the siblings.
Some people really are naive to the way molestation and manipulation occurs.
Its almost the same as human trafficking of many runaways. The "finders" as they are referred as often befriend them, only to set them up for the **** to swoon in and take over. The "nice" week is always present in the takeover of a human.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

WOW ... did the autopsy report come out describing collapsed veins, or is this from the tabloid (The Sun) which was debunked from the coroners office the very next day about the false autopsy claims.

Guess I missed the release of the report, where I can locate this?

Thanks in advance.

Serenit, it took me awhile to find..but I knewI heard similar claims on a reputible site..and it was on CNN during discussions about numerous claims and reports...Here's the transcript and I highlighted the comment associated with the claim of "Vein Issues"~~


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/08/ec.01.html

BROWN: Now, our Randi Kaye has been uncovering some new details about Michael Jackson's health. She's in L.A. right now with former CNN anchor Jim Moret, who is also now chief correspondent for "Inside Edition," and Dr. Jorge Rodriguez, who is a surgeon, joining us tonight as well to help us get a little more insight on some of this.

And, Randi, you have got a lot of details to share about the condition of Jackson's body. Walk us through it.


We spoke with two sources who are very close to this investigate. And they both painted a very similar picture for us. I want to share some of those details with you. I'm quoting here. One source said -- quote -- "He had numerous track marks on his arms." The other source told us that he had -- quote -- "collapsed veins which could suggest frequent I.V. drug use."

The other sources as well told us that some of the marks on his arms were fresh, others were older. Now, you have to keep in mind here that, of course, the emergency personnel who were trying to save him may have used I.V. drips and such. And that could be what accounts for some of these more -- the fresher-looking marks on his arms


DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, SURGEON: Well, what you can deduce from anybody that has collapsed veins or scarred veins, which is what I interpret it as, is that this is something that didn't happen overnight. For someone to have sclerosed veins, track marks, is a chronic use of that vein, so that it becomes inflamed and then, eventually, that turns into a scar.

So, having that as evidence means that this person -- this didn't happen overnight. This is a chronic, month-long, maybe year-long occurrence

So it does seem there is a spot of truth to the suggestion...

LMS

[GentleBreeze]

Why didn't he just give them pills and tell them they were aspirin and knock them out? Maybe he could have shared his anesthesia? I just cant take the word of some kid under the influence of his scam artist mother,not buying it.

jmo

And there were times MJ wasn't even there and these kids were. No telling what they got into. Yeah I bet they did find his JJ and have them some.

Wouldn't this boy come in and demand that the help make him a drink? I seem to remember something about that.

imo

[Firehead11]

I am going to point this out again, Coldwater does NOT want the trial to be rehashed. She did threaten to close down this Jackson site. Please do not take the bait. Neither side is going to change their minds about it.

Thank You

[GentleBreeze]

IMO and I've said it before...MJ wants what he wants...he had already invested time and $$$$$$$$ in the boy and that family. Obviously, he thought he could get away with it. And why wouldn't he? He did the same thing....again and again. A 2 million payout...a year later...a close call to the tune of 20 million....and yet...Mother's still sent their little boys off to Michael Jackson's bed. IMO

He has always invested time and lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to many kids and their families.:confused:

[GentleBreeze]

Key word- SLEEPING, maybe some just dont get the word and assume sleeping means sex.

jmo

BINGO!

imo

[VC2]

The latest gossip (let's call it what it is) is that Joe and Jermaine Jackson are the ones pushing hard for the burial at Neverland. Clearly it is for the money potential.

There are many things I am curious about, but the main one is Katherine Jackson. She holds all of the cards in that family now, not Joe. My hope is that she finds empowerment and does what she thinks is right. I've heard that the trust could be broken into two different distributions of the 40% left to Katherine:

1. She can do whatever she wants with it. This means she could give as much money to Joe and her children as she wants. Is there enough money to take care of all of them for the rest of their lives? Probably not right now, but surely would be with future earnings. Would it be enough for the siblings if they could live comfortably (minus Janet as she has her own wealth) or do some or all of the siblings yearn for the fame and fortune Michael had? Are they nuts enough to think the world will launch them back to the stardom they enjoyed as young people? I think Jermaine may think so............

2. The 40% is given for "Katherine's Use" and she has to submit annual budgets and documentation for monies spent. This would make it much harder for her to take care of all the family members. What would you do if you were Michael Jackson and setting up the trust? Are you bitter that your family seemed to to view you as a cash cow and try to stop that dynamic through the trust? Do you think that despite everything they are family and set it up for your mom to take care of them financially? It's hard to tell.

As said, I just hope Katherine Jackson embraces the power granted to her through this will. Her husband is like a used car dealer and won't stop unless she firmly puts her foot down. If I were her, I would just buy him off and make sure he faded away...........

Thanks for listening. Sorry for the long post. My own opinion. Be well.

excuse me how could it be for financial reasons? Thomas Barrack the billionaire holds 76% of Neverland. They are in the midst of restoring it as it used to be but any profits etc. would go to him apart from a small amount which would go to MJ's estate NOT jermaine or joe or the family, presumably in trust for the children

IMO

[magnolia]

IMO and I've said it before...MJ wants what he wants...he had already invested time and $$$$$$$$ in the boy and that family. Obviously, he thought he could get away with it. And why wouldn't he? He did the same thing....again and again. A 2 million payout...a year later...a close call to the tune of 20 million....and yet...Mother's still sent their little boys off to Michael Jackson's bed. IMO

And if MJ was alive today, I bet more mothers would send their children off to MJ's bed, including some of the posters here.

[GentleBreeze]

I wonder if I saw the same documentary as you? The one where he admitted to sleeping with boys?

Yes, he has never tried to deny it, the one where Bashir sliced and edited. That one.

Sleeping is the keyword.

imo

[~layla~]

Yes, you are absolutely right and I am very very sorry for your difficultly!

In my opinion, MJ's collapsed veins were due to his being a junkie...not from any legitimate condition. I should have been clearer. Please accept my apology.

oh no I was with you on that.
I just have a reg illness for life and ran out of veins... or they roll/collaspe all the time. People just get frustrated because I need the IV drugs in asap ... being intubated comes second to the intravaneous drugs... mainly to knock me out into oblivion as not to fight back. Ive beeen given verced, and another paralytic..its really okay .. ya know when you only need it to stablize another condition.

Now looking back... MJ and the hyperbaric chamber sleeping and other BS tabloid stories, maybe as far back as the 80's he was getting those surgical paralytics.... and slept in the hyperbaric chamber to regulate the o2????

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I guess, I am outa here..not many wish to discuss current, and applicable convo towards issue today regarding MJ..This past stuff is a moot point in the Investigation around Michaels Death is what I am seening..so have at the past..I let it go so long ago!!

Salut
LMS:mad:

[KatieLady]

I guess, I am outa here..not many wish to discuss current, and applicable convo towards issue today regarding MJ..This past stuff is a moot point in the Investigation around Michaels Death is what I am seening..so have at the past..I let it go so long ago!!

Salut
LMS:mad:

I am right behind you!

[aproudmom]

Let me see if this is OK with you. It's OK to give underage little boys booze? One who was fighting cancer and didn't have a kidney or a spleen?

is this the same one that stood in the kitchen and said he had been told to plan for his death and thanks to MJ he was alive? I am so confused on who is who..but the one I saw there was a girl I am guessing his sister saying they told him he would not live long..but it was a miracle was it the Jesus Juice? I have heard of Casey Kool-Aid..no really I do think he was a easy target if I thought he was guilty I would say it I have 2 sons..

[Firehead11]

[/B]

And if MJ was alive today, I bet more mothers would send their children off to MJ's bed, including some of the posters here.

Exactly what do you mean by this?

[magnolia]

Exactly what do you mean by this?

That there are people, including here, who see no problem with allowing their boys to sleep with a non-relative adult (ex. MJ).

[GentleBreeze]

Exactly what do you mean by this?

Maybe CW should ask her? I have not seen one poster say they would let their child sleep with an non family adult. Maybe Magnolia can show us who it was.

I am outta here!

imo

[aproudmom]

I guess, I am outa here..not many wish to discuss current, and applicable convo towards issue today regarding MJ..This past stuff is a moot point in the Investigation around Michaels Death is what I am seening..so have at the past..I let it go so long ago!!

Salut
LMS:mad:

I think this helped to kill him I think he was a broken spirit and for what he was being alleged to have done so in a around about way I feel he was numbing the pain of things other than physical pain..JMO

[magnolia]

Maybe CW should ask her? I have not seen one poster say they would let their child sleep with an non family adult. Maybe Magnolia can show us who it was.

I am outta here!

imo

There have been plenty.

[Tokyo Rose]

There would be a line. IMO

1400 officers for crowd control. imo

[Tokyo Rose]

Honestly Lilismom -- I followed the trial faithfully and downloaded transcripts and what the media reported v what actually happened were like night and day. EVERY single night I sent emails to CTV with a list of discrepancies and they never responded.

I actually and truly believed MJ was guilty when he was initially charged. As the trial progressed, I was totally convinced that MJ never abused any child and the family had a history of being scam artists.

If I referred you to books or websites -- they would be from Jackson supporters (meaning the articles are written by people who concluded MJ was not guilty).

Honestly, defense attorneys always turn the victim to the bad guy in trials. I'm not surprised at all. It's their job. jmo

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I think this helped to kill him I think he was a broken spirit and for what he was being alleged to have done so in a around about way I feel he was numbing the pain of things other than physical pain..JMO


I would tend to agree to a certain point..however, it does appear that MJ's usage of less than mainstream treatments long preceeded any allegations whats so ever...So, yes in the final 10 years..his initial reasons for getting involved with drugs (dangerous ones) may have been just fueled yet he still denied any drug problems, tho many of his confidents pleaded with him to stop and get help..His re-hab stints obviously didnt help:crying:

I blame the medical community that enabled him to continually feed his addictions. They above all people should have known the repercussions!!

LMS

LMS

[lilismom]

Honestly Lilismom -- I followed the trial faithfully and downloaded transcripts and what the media reported v what actually happened were like night and day. EVERY single night I sent emails to CTV with a list of discrepancies and they never responded.

I actually and truly believed MJ was guilty when he was initially charged. As the trial progressed, I was totally convinced that MJ never abused any child and the family had a history of being scam artists.

If I referred you to books or websites -- they would be from Jackson supporters (meaning the articles are written by people who concluded MJ was not guilty).

Its ok. I don't mind starting from not guilty. I mean, he was found not guilty right? I'll read back from there. PM me if you like.

IMO,
Lilismom

[kjt200]

excuse me how could it be for financial reasons? Thomas Barrack the billionaire holds 76% of Neverland. They are in the midst of restoring it as it used to be but any profits etc. would go to him apart from a small amount which would go to MJ's estate NOT jermaine or joe or the family, presumably in trust for the children

IMO

It's pretty obvious isn't it? Looking into the future, how much money will the property generate if turned into Graceland II vs. simple restoration? Even if the seemingly small percentage still owned by Michael Jackson would mushroom into endless monies throughout the years. Not to mention that the major lease holder could easily enter into a shared agreement with the Jackson family if desired which could very possibly enlarge future earnings.

It all depends on various factors like..........would the county be open to a large scale tourist attraction? I'm very familiar with this geographic area and there are clearly pro's and con's...........Who is in control of image, likeness and name? In other words, who can license or use his image and market his name? At this point, it is the executor, but there could be additional information in the trust itself.

As I'm sure most of us who are old enough to remember, Elvis really became more wealthy in death than he was at the end. His image was controlled by his ex-wife who really did a pretty good job of managing the marketing end of things....including Graceland. Yes, his daughter reaped the majority of proceeds, but her mom didn't do too bad herself.

I guess what I am trying to say is this. I have never trusted Joe Jackson. He seems to be an opportunist. I also don't trust Jermaine Jackson. I found his statement "I was his voice" at the Memorial distasteful. I think he is just trying to make himself important. And I think that there are those in the family that see Neverland as a way to make money....I could be wrong. Have been wrong...And would be the first to admit it......My opinion really means nothing in the broader picture, but hey.......I like to speculate as much as the next person.

Pardon this long rambling post. My own opinion of course. Be well.

[aproudmom]

I wonder if I saw the same documentary as you? The one where he admitted to sleeping with boys?

No really Tokyo when it first came out I was creeped out but then I watched it again and seen how he was trying to get him to say he was actually sleeping with the boys in the bed for other reasons than watching a movie or what ever the boy said he told MJ if he loved him he would sleep in the bed and not the floor..that is what I am talking about..it was very twisted IMO and easily taken the wrong way..I am not real familiar with everything I just know that doc was twisted by that guy..all I know is they found him NG and parents went for money over their children would never happen if I thought someone touched my children I would be behind bars

[Hanalei]

I do believe there are more boys IMO but not all of them will won't to talk about it. Look at all the kids that were molested by priests they didn't come forward until they were older.

Oh please. If he was so "addicted to boys" why the 10 year gap. Sorry these parents were all extortionists. The "little boy" NEVER told his mother. His mother went to a tabloid -- and it was also proven she lied and admitted it under cross during the trial. I truly believe you need to research the documentation on these so-called accusers. This boy even told police to stop putting words in his mouth and make him say things that never happened. :shrug:

[DeeN]

BS. MJ was NEVER seen giving any children alcohol. They helped themselves when he wasn't even at NL. Again - you need to research this. These were not the innocent children some are trying to make them out to be - they were street-wise south LA kids who tried to shake down everyone they met. There are links all over this board re: this. :rolleyes:

Way before the charges, my girlfriend Mindy, was a private flight attendent who serviced on private lear jets. MJ was often one of her passengers. She told me (again before the charges) that on many occasions, she saw him give young boys (9 years-11) soda in cans that he laced with liquor.

[Hanalei]

Correction the payout was $15 million not $20 and $3 million went to lawyer fees so really the payout for the family was $12 million.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0616041jacko1.html



brought over from last thread:

" 07-10-2009, 09:50 AM
Athena2
Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 3,254

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~layla~
It is, you are not confused.


edited to address the payoffs.

I think Jordan Chandler should either give ALL the money back... meaning ANYTHING he earned or bought or recieved due to the money that MJ paid him and/or his family (and I mean every single dime and item) ..... or STHU. I think JC feels a sense of guilt because he was a kid, and his parents may or may not have been greedy.... but all the talk about him has not feeling so great about life/himself/family/whatever.

Personally, I do believe he was molested. I think the payoff money was to shut them up... ALL of the family. I think they took it and gladly walked away, but Jordan wasnt grown, his life wasnt his own at that point. Today it is, and hindsight and all..... maybe the money means nothing because his name is forever connected to MJ in the most salicious way. Im sure he doesnt like it.


__________________________________________________ __________
His father got the bulk of the money

---------------------------------------------------------------------

That's not true. His father got 2 million and so did his mother.

The 20 million plus was secured in a special needs trust for JC.

JC has since changed his name and has moved quite a few times. Oh...and he hasn't really spoken to his mother in all these years....he blames her for basically selling him.

IMO

If you believe he was molested, why should he give the money back or STHU? If you have a link to an interview he gave, or know he's off running his mouth somewhere ...please link it.

[CinderL.]

IMO it would s**k to be famous. YIkes.

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=fc5679f2-0f20-4267-9a2c-73771394695b

[CinderL.]

Why doesn't it surprise me that these two Dr.'s aren't producing the medical records. I would bet that Dr. Murray doesn't have any records. IMO

***************

Jackson Docs Not Cooperating, Coroner Claims

Posted Jul 10th 2009 10:35AM by TMZ Staff

Law enforcement sources tell TMZ two doctors who treated Michael Jackson have not been forthcoming with their medical records.

Sources say Dr. Arnold Klein and Dr. Conrad Murray have not turned over the medical records the L.A. County Coroner's office has requested. We're told both doctors have turned over some records, but the coroner's office has not gotten the complete file from either doctor.

And there's this ... We've learned a driver for Michael Jackson told coroner's officials shortly after Jackson's death that the singer was going to Dr. Klein's office multiple times a week in the months preceding his death and sometimes would spend 3 to 4 hours inside.

The driver told coroner's officials Jackson appeared disoriented when he left Klein's office. This is consistent with what a bodyguard told Santa Barbara County Sheriff's deputies in 2004 ... when Jackson left the offices of Klein and other doctors.

[aproudmom]

I would tend to agree to a certain point..however, it does appear that MJ's usage of less than mainstream treatments long preceeded any allegations whats so ever...So, yes in the final 10 years..his initial reasons for getting involved with drugs (dangerous ones) may have been just fueled yet he still denied any drug problems, tho many of his confidents pleaded with him to stop and get help..His re-hab stints obviously didnt help:crying:

I blame the medical community that enabled him to continually feed his addictions. They above all people should have known the repercussions!!

LMS

LMS

I agree something needs to change and not after we lose another famous person even though it happens to the average person also.. I have took alot of time watching and reading the past few days..and the sad thing is this did not have to happen..but deep down it started with something and progressed and he I am sure thought he would be ok if he had someone with him..I just wish he had got help when Janet and them tried what happened is very normal they push away the ones who are only trying to help you because they love you..they are in denial IMO..I think these doctors need to be held accountable..they have a code of ethics to go by

[Hanalei]

IMO If this is all true when was MJ even awake to take care of his kids??? Dang that's a heck of a lot of drugs to have in your system thankgod there were nannies around to take care of the kids because MJ wasn't even in his right mind if he was popping 10 xanax a day. I had to take one when my sister died because I was upset and it knocked me out I can't imagine taking 10 of those a day you wouldn't be able to do anything you would be heavly asleep for most of the day!



Morning everone..I brought this over from yesterday's thread..and once again, I fell off my chair..I reiterate..Why was this not ( drug and medical parphenalia) addressed back then...Michael would be alive today if it had been!!

Originally Posted by FallenAngel♥
WOW

Santa Barbara County Sheriff's deputies who raided Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch back in 2003 found a syringe, powerful narcotics, vials and IV bags containing what could be anesthesia.


-- A vial of Versed -- a powerful sedative
-- Several IV bags containing "a milky white fluid, located in a small cardboard box on top of the bathtub." Propofol and other anesthesias are milky white. As we first reported, Propofol was in Jackson's home the day he died.
-- A vial of Promethazine -- an antihistamine with strong sedative effects
-- A bottle of Alprazolam (generic for Xanax, a powerful anti-anxiety drug)
-- A bottle of Percocet -- a painkiller
-- A syringe
-- A vial with Demerol in it
-- Numerous loose pills outside bottles
-- A bottle of Prednisone -- a steroid
-- Ery-tab -- an antibiotic
-- Prescriptions for Xanax that had been filled
-- A prescription for Alprazolam
-- Oxygen tanks
-- IV stands


http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/10/raid-a...d-heavy-drugs/

Why wasn't someone charged back then?


I just knew that using "Sleep therapy" was NOT something new in MJ's life....and this fact would cooroberate the reporting of "Track Marks" and collapsed veins ( we call sclerotic veins) found on Michael upon autopsy...

Man oh man..what a crying shame !!!

LMS:glare:

[aproudmom]

Why doesn't it surprise me that these two Dr.'s aren't producing the medical records. I would bet that Dr. Murray doesn't have any records. IMO

***************

Jackson Docs Not Cooperating, Coroner Claims

Posted Jul 10th 2009 10:35AM by TMZ Staff

Law enforcement sources tell TMZ two doctors who treated Michael Jackson have not been forthcoming with their medical records.

Sources say Dr. Arnold Klein and Dr. Conrad Murray have not turned over the medical records the L.A. County Coroner's office has requested. We're told both doctors have turned over some records, but the coroner's office has not gotten the complete file from either doctor.

And there's this ... We've learned a driver for Michael Jackson told coroner's officials shortly after Jackson's death that the singer was going to Dr. Klein's office multiple times a week in the months preceding his death and sometimes would spend 3 to 4 hours inside.

The driver told coroner's officials Jackson appeared disoriented when he left Klein's office. This is consistent with what a bodyguard told Santa Barbara County Sheriff's deputies in 2004 ... when Jackson left the offices of Klein and other doctors.
ok that is the one I kept talking about
I thought Klein said he gave everything to the coroner..I seen the media taping him going into a doctors office in his last 2 months alot.just could not find out who or what doctor it was..it is all on YouTube..

[mrsmcgoo]

Actually I hold all the medical people even more accountable..as Doctors take the "Hippocratic Oath"..which outlines their eithical responsibilities~~

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocratic_oath

The Hippocratic Oath is an oath traditionally taken by physicians pertaining to the ethical practice of medicine. It is widely believed that the oath was written by Hippocrates, the father of western medicine, in the 4th century BC, or by one of his students.[1] It is thus usually included in the Hippocratic Corpus. Classical scholar Ludwig Edelstein proposed that the oath was written by Pythagoreans, a theory that has been questioned due to the lack of evidence for a school of Pythagorean medicine.[2] The phrase "Above all, do no harm" is usually attributed to the oath. Although mostly of historical and traditional value, the oath is considered a rite of passage for practitioners of medicine, although nowadays the modernized version of the text varies among the countries


Being a medical practitioner myself..I hold this oath sacrosanct to this profession!

LMS:angry:

I can understand your anger, given your profession!

I have a very personal reason for wanting these Dr.'s help accountable, this shouldn't be happening, yet it does, again and again.

An investigation needs to be held into why the LE did nothing with the information about the prescription drugs found in the home. They dropped the ball. It isn't even just about MJ, it is about anyone that has an addiction to prescription medication.

JMO

[DeeN]

Don't know who u are - don't know who Mindy is and she didn't testify. According to the flight attendant WHO DID testify -said she NEVER saw MJ give the children alcohol.

I don't know who u are either for heavens sake. Mindy did not want to get involved. She was in an industry that is definately a "don't tell". She was serving people who were Kings, Presidents, Rock Stars etc. She wanted to keep her job-and blabbing about what goes on in the jets is not the way to do that.

So, I really, do not care if you believe me or not. I'm just telling you what I know-and as I stated- Mindy told me this long before this all broke in the news.
Have a Good Day :smile:

[*Serenity*]

Serenit, it took me awhile to find..but I knewI heard similar claims on a reputible site..and it was on CNN during discussions about numerous claims and reports...Here's the transcript and I highlighted the comment associated with the claim of "Vein Issues"~~


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/08/ec.01.html

BROWN: Now, our Randi Kaye has been uncovering some new details about Michael Jackson's health. She's in L.A. right now with former CNN anchor Jim Moret, who is also now chief correspondent for "Inside Edition," and Dr. Jorge Rodriguez, who is a surgeon, joining us tonight as well to help us get a little more insight on some of this.

And, Randi, you have got a lot of details to share about the condition of Jackson's body. Walk us through it.


We spoke with two sources who are very close to this investigate. And they both painted a very similar picture for us. I want to share some of those details with you. I'm quoting here. One source said -- quote -- "He had numerous track marks on his arms." The other source told us that he had -- quote -- "collapsed veins which could suggest frequent I.V. drug use."

The other sources as well told us that some of the marks on his arms were fresh, others were older. Now, you have to keep in mind here that, of course, the emergency personnel who were trying to save him may have used I.V. drips and such. And that could be what accounts for some of these more -- the fresher-looking marks on his arms


DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, SURGEON: Well, what you can deduce from anybody that has collapsed veins or scarred veins, which is what I interpret it as, is that this is something that didn't happen overnight. For someone to have sclerosed veins, track marks, is a chronic use of that vein, so that it becomes inflamed and then, eventually, that turns into a scar.

So, having that as evidence means that this person -- this didn't happen overnight. This is a chronic, month-long, maybe year-long occurrence

So it does seem there is a spot of truth to the suggestion...

LMS


I find it appalling they state sources close to the investigation, and then go on to say 'other sources'. Nothing like leaks from LE if that is their souce close to the investigation, and from what the cororner came out and stated to debunk the tabloids- stating that information was indeed false.

:shrug: In my opinion with so many conflicting reports about Michael Jackson's death- one source doesn't seem to know much more than the other- therefore to keep the ratings up and rumors running, they must embellish the truth as far as they can.

[Hanalei]

Yeah well everyone around MJ said they never saw MJ take drugs but we all know now he pretty much had his own pharmacy in his house. There were open wine and liquor bottles in MJ bathroom. If MJ was allowing kids to be in there he is responsible if the kids were drinking it that should be locked up away from children:angry: Note in the article it didn't say open bottle it says open bottles. Any responsible adult will not have alcohol around where children will be. I know MJ had locks on his bedroom door so no one can say oh the kids just walked in MJ had to know the kids were going to be in there and he could be the one that were making the drinks for them IMO.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/michaeljackson/010605jacksonhouse.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0113051jackson1.html




BS. MJ was NEVER seen giving any children alcohol. They helped themselves when he wasn't even at NL. Again - you need to research this. These were not the innocent children some are trying to make them out to be - they were street-wise south LA kids who tried to shake down everyone they met. There are links all over this board re: this. :rolleyes:

[who_is_it]

Way before the charges, my girlfriend Mindy, was a private flight attendent who serviced on private lear jets. MJ was often one of her passengers. She told me (again before the charges) that on many occasions, she saw him give young boys (9 years-11) soda in cans that he laced with liquor.

I can confirm what Athena said. I remember her testimony as well.

[Firehead11]

I am certainly glad that I live in a country where one is to be presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Since this HAS NOT happened in regards to Michael Jackson, I will live by my Constitution.


Now, I wonder what the tox tests will show since all of this drug info is being posted. I also wonder how MJ passed the 5 hour physical he had to take in order to be insured for this series of concerts.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b131275_michael_jackson_passed_09_physical_tour.ht ml

Wouldn't they have run blood tests?

[*Serenity*]

I guess, I am outa here..not many wish to discuss current, and applicable convo towards issue today regarding MJ..This past stuff is a moot point in the Investigation around Michaels Death is what I am seening..so have at the past..I let it go so long ago!!

Salut
LMS:mad:


:thumbup:

Couldn't agree more. I'm still anxious to find out more about the autopsy, doctor's invloved, and why all those oxygen tanks were
at MJ's home. ALSO would like to know what will become of the
LAPD's investigation for NOT securing that home.

Have a good day.

[aproudmom]

looks like the same office to me

Roxbury Medical Building In Beverly Hills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guOcILXglA4&feature=channel

Michael Jackson Visits Bedford Medical Center
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWCv2UStO4w&feature=channel

what is a Cambridge doctor?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHFVE3BlDT8&feature=channel

[CinderL.]

I am certainly glad that I live in a country where one is to be presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Since this HAS NOT happened in regards to Michael Jackson, I will live by my Constitution.


Now, I wonder what the tox tests will show since all of this drug info is being posted. I also wonder how MJ passed the 5 hour physical he had to take in order to be insured for this series of concerts.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b131275_michael_jackson_passed_09_physical_tour.ht ml

Wouldn't they have run blood tests?

Good question. You would think they would have run blood tests. Didn't someone say the production company had insurance coverage for drug overdose? Maybe they did know he had drugs in his system. ???

[*Serenity*]

I am certainly glad that I live in a country where one is to be presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Since this HAS NOT happened in regards to Michael Jackson, I will live by my Constitution.


Now, I wonder what the tox tests will show since all of this drug info is being posted. I also wonder how MJ passed the 5 hour physical he had to take in order to be insured for this series of concerts.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b131275_michael_jackson_passed_09_physical_tour.ht ml

Wouldn't they have run blood tests?


I posted a link the other night where they are also testing his brain.
Sounds creepy that his brain is not with his body, yet it will be returned to the family once the testing is complete. Could be another reason why they are holding off on the burial. But- anyway it was stated they would be able to tell if there were any previous over doses etc. from the brain. I don't have the link saved, however I could probably search or google again for that if you need it.

:)

[Hanalei]

I'm not surprised. MJ defenders will always find away to blame everyone else for MJ's problems but him and now they will say that MJ loaded up on pain pills and IV drips because of the media. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. If MJ couldn't handle the pressures of being famous he should have retired a long time ago but his drive and ego to be on top is what killed him. He wanted to have a normal life but you can't have that and be famous all over the world it's not going to happen. A smart person would have made their money and get out and invest their money but MJ didn't do that he spent way too much and for that reason he had to stay in the business to make the money back and that's another form of addiction. All of this is IMO



Athena, this may be true but who was the adult in that house? Who left them unattended with liquor available? I can't believe that you would blame the kids and not MJ for this. Amazes me!

[FallenAngel♥]

Neverland Ranch Raid photos


http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/neverland_ranch_raid_pictures

[FallenAngel♥]

IMO MJ needed a couple more maids because that bedroom was HORRIBLE barf

[Firehead11]

I posted a link the other night where they are also testing his brain.
Sounds creepy that his brain is not with his body, yet it will be returned to the family once the testing is complete. Could be another reason why they are holding off on the burial. But- anyway it was stated they would be able to tell if there were any previous over doses etc. from the brain. I don't have the link saved, however I could probably search or google again for that if you need it.

:)


Thanks for the offer but I did read that also. I hope that they tested the hair also. Maybe that could tell how long and possibly what he was taking.

I think there may be another reason he is not buried yet, I wonder if both autopsies and the testing will have the same results.

[Firehead11]

IMO MJ needed a couple more maids because that bedroom was HORRIBLE barf


Those pictures were after the raid. Did you ever see what cops do to a house?

[FallenAngel♥]

Those pictures were after the raid. Did you ever see what cops do to a house?

that was AFTER the raid or during it? some how i doubt that bedroom was spotless before they got there.

[*Serenity*]

Way before the charges, my girlfriend Mindy, was a private flight attendent who serviced on private lear jets. MJ was often one of her passengers. She told me (again before the charges) that on many occasions, she saw him give young boys (9 years-11) soda in cans that he laced with liquor.

How did she know what was in the soda cans? Did she see him pour the alcohol in the can, or did she taste everyone's drink?

Reminds me of my friend Harry knew Sally who was best friends with Monica who found out from Larry that he flew with Michael and watched him hand out soda cans to little boys.

LOL

[Hanalei]

If someone is a pedophile doesn't mean he had to molest 100's of kids. Look at David Westerfield he was convicted when he was in his 50's and he was accused of being with only one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danielle_Van_Dam



Really? Three children and he was 50 years old and around 100s or 1000s of children during those decades?

Here is what I think.

IMOO, I think it takes a very naive person to think they would never settle a case if they were innocent. For years, I, have said that over and over for years but of course I can do that because I have never come face to face with a false allegation that could not only ruin my own life but the lives of my family as well. So in the recent days I have seriously thought about what I really would do if faced with the worst nightmare in the world.

I have come to the conclusion if I had MJs money I would want to make it all go away and I would do so in a heartbeat. This is the worst allegation that can be lodged against anyone. Even if the person is found NG of wrongdoing it doesn't stop the ruination. That is blatantly obvious that is true in THIS very case.

It is also naive thinking imo that the accused would demand to go to criminal court instead and rolling the loaded dice where their life is held in the palm of only 12 people. Going to trial is like playing Russian Roulette. Never have I seen anyone that was innocent calling a Prosecutor and telling them they wanted them to try them in a court of law.

I do not believe for one second that MJ was a child molester but he was an easy target and rather stubborn. Even after the insurance company settled he would not change having sleepovers with children. IMO, he stubbornly, immaturely and foolishly thought since he knew he had done nothing to harm children if he changed his pattern then that would be affirming that something he had done was wrong.

I think that MJ was a man/child totally caught up in a child's world unless he was on center stage performing. Dr. K even said that when he and his staff had toured one time with him that MJ could not sleep and they ALL had to go lay down in his bedroom and stay in the room with him so he could sleep.

A lot of what happened in his childhood he could not shake. No birthday celebrations, no Christmas gifts, no celebrating them at all and the only comfort he seemed to have remembered was sleeping in one bedroom with all of his brothers. That is when he felt secure and not alone.

So while having sleepovers with children is not the norm for adults to do neither is having to have adults in the room too so he can sleep. But neither one proves he molested any children. MJ never denied he had sleepovers with children.

Of course he also told people years and years ago that he had Vitilio but once again MJs truth was pushed aside and his thoughts replaced by the media's gossip and rumors who has made billions from this man's pain and suffering and they will extend it as far as it will reach. He was their favorite cash cow, they couldn't be happier that he has died so they once again can crush him into the ground as the ratings go up and the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ comes pouring in.

imo

[CinderL.]

Neverland Ranch Raid photos


http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/neverland_ranch_raid_pictures

:ohmy: What a mess.

[who_is_it]

If someone is a pedophile doesn't mean he had to molest 100's of kids. Look at David Westerfield he was convicted when he was in his 50's and he was accused of being with only one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danielle_Van_Dam

Want to add to Athena's post: Feldman already made big bucks in 1993. He earned 3 millions. Even the involved psychologist, Stanley Katz, was the same.

[JHP]

that was AFTER the raid or during it? some how i doubt that bedroom was spotless before they got there.

The fake children were kind of scary IMO.

[MiamiNice1]

I am certainly glad that I live in a country where one is to be presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Since this HAS NOT happened in regards to Michael Jackson, I will live by my Constitution.


Now, I wonder what the tox tests will show since all of this drug info is being posted. I also wonder how MJ passed the 5 hour physical he had to take in order to be insured for this series of concerts.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b131275_michael_jackson_passed_09_physical_tour.ht ml

Wouldn't they have run blood tests?

Great question about running blood tests! Another example of enablers letting MJ off the hook - and for something so important. Was it for cash? That's the only answer I can come up with - they didn't "know" him enough to be so "caring" .....

Here's the answer to why didn't they do anything about all the drugs found back at the time of trial:

http://www.tmz.com/

"By the way, most of the evidence involving drugs was never admitted at trial, because authorities felt it was not relevant to the molestation charge."

:mad:

imo

[who_is_it]

that was AFTER the raid or during it? some how i doubt that bedroom was spotless before they got there.

It doesn't matter if AFTER or DURING... -- all what counts is that the mess probably wasn't before.

[*Serenity*]

I apologize to Lynda et al for my part for responding to posts not associated with current events. I have asked several times for posters not to bring up the trial. It is not in my nature to ignore posts that spread falsehoods. I have now placed those posters on ignore and will leave it as is. :(

I have to give you kudos for having the patience to deal with them.
Most that know you realize you can debunk the false allegations, but hey they need someone to talk to anyway. LOL

To me- it's like watching paint dry.

Thanks for your many links and information for both old news, and new news. I'm getting the eerie feeling that this investigation is going to drag out for quite awhile, simply because so many doctors are involved, and it is like one huge spider web, in a sense.

Even when tox reports come back, I am thinking the autopsy will remain sealed by LE due to the investgation- therefore it may be quite awhile before anything will be reported correctly.

[Firehead11]

Great question about running blood tests! Another example of enablers letting MJ off the hook - and for something so important. Was it for cash? That's the only answer I can come up with - they didn't "know" him to be so "caring" .....

Here's the answer to why didn't they do anything about all the drugs found back at the time of trial:

http://www.tmz.com/

"By the way, most of the evidence involving drugs was never admitted at trial, because authorities felt it was not relevant to the molestation charge."

:mad:

imo

Oh but it was important that he came the children Jesus Juice? I don't buy it. As it was pointed out, why not give the child a pill? I think if there was any way that a child could be impaired, these pills would have been brought into the trial.

[MiamiNice1]

It sure does. What annoys me is that these people around MJ are denying it. Did you hear Mesero (spl?) claim he never saw him do drugs during the trial. Really? All you had to do was tune in to see how drugged up MJ he was. imo
The denial to save their own skin is reprehensible. Now, Dr. Klein is saying he didn't see the puncture marks in MJ's neck! As a dermatologist, how could he possibly miss THOSE??

Scroll down to "Injection Marks on Jackson's Neck"

http://www.tmz.com/

imo

[MiamiNice1]

Oh but it was important that he came the children Jesus Juice? I don't buy it.
Good point. Makes me wonder how much was doled out for people to look the other way?

imo

[kennedy06]

The fake children were kind of scary IMO.

Looked like he thought a lot of Shirley Tmple

[annalicious]

Why doesn't it surprise me that these two Dr.'s aren't producing the medical records. I would bet that Dr. Murray doesn't have any records. IMO

***************

Jackson Docs Not Cooperating, Coroner Claims

Posted Jul 10th 2009 10:35AM by TMZ Staff

Law enforcement sources tell TMZ two doctors who treated Michael Jackson have not been forthcoming with their medical records.

Sources say Dr. Arnold Klein and Dr. Conrad Murray have not turned over the medical records the L.A. County Coroner's office has requested. We're told both doctors have turned over some records, but the coroner's office has not gotten the complete file from either doctor.

And there's this ... We've learned a driver for Michael Jackson told coroner's officials shortly after Jackson's death that the singer was going to Dr. Klein's office multiple times a week in the months preceding his death and sometimes would spend 3 to 4 hours inside.

The driver told coroner's officials Jackson appeared disoriented when he left Klein's office. This is consistent with what a bodyguard told Santa Barbara County Sheriff's deputies in 2004 ... when Jackson left the offices of Klein and other doctors.

Dr. Murray issued a statement he won't talk before the autopsy results are released. Could it be Diprivan doesn't show up in tests if it moves through the body quickly?

[tiptop]

IMO MJ needed a couple more maids because that bedroom was HORRIBLE barf

Oh my gosh - the whole place looks like a messy garage sale. In pic 17 are those boy mannequins?

[DeeN]

I don't recall how old MJ was when they must have taken these pics. Even my teenagers room never looked this bad.

Interesting. I wonder if we'll see new pics of his current abode? Was it any better? Or, still the same?


Neverland Ranch Raid photos


http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/neverland_ranch_raid_pictures

[MiamiNice1]

I don't recall how old MJ was when they must have taken these pics. Even my teenagers room never looked this bad.

Interesting. I wonder if we'll see new pics of his current abode? Was it any better? Or, still the same?
IIRC, Didn't Nanny Grace mention in that (supposedly fake) interview that when she recently went to see Paris for her birthday that the house was run down? That no one was taking care of anything? Many of the staff had been let go.

imo

[aproudmom]

IMO If this is all true when was MJ even awake to take care of his kids??? Dang that's a heck of a lot of drugs to have in your system thankgod there were nannies around to take care of the kids because MJ wasn't even in his right mind if he was popping 10 xanax a day. I had to take one when my sister died because I was upset and it knocked me out I can't imagine taking 10 of those a day you wouldn't be able to do anything you would be heavly asleep for most of the day!

try to remember that is media all I ever saw was syringes..and Xanax I am pres 4 a day as needed and it sure does not knock me out..only helps with anxiety attacks..and I have raised my children for the past 19 years just fine...it reacts different in everyone

[PBJMOM4]

The fake children were kind of scary IMO.

definitely strange and the one in the thrown with his or her legs straight up in the air, very freaky. Not suggesting MJ put the life sized dolls in those positions, just a little freaky and caughtmy eyes everytime they were in a photo.

[DeeN]

She smelled the cans, and yes she told me she took a sip. She flew with him often.

Anyway, I really don't care who wants to challange my statement-it's not important to me. So, I won't answer anymore questions about it, or defend what I said.

Have a nice day everyone! Off to work.

How did she know what was in the soda cans? Did she see him pour the alcohol in the can, or did she taste everyone's drink?

Reminds me of my friend Harry knew Sally who was best friends with Monica who found out from Larry that he flew with Michael and watched him hand out soda cans to little boys.

LOL

[kennedy06]

This is just getting sadder and sadder to realize what was going on behind the scenes.

This morning I caught on one of the main morning news shows...Nancy P. speaking up...there is no HR 600 for him...NP explaining the reasons it won't go forward for a discussion...then Sheila J. was shown making a comment (sheepishly IMO) about it was right after the funeral or something like that and she will keep trying (paraphrasing from my memory) JMO

She should never have gotten up before millions and his family at that service and announced that before she was aware if it would have gone through or not. JMO

[tiptop]

Looked like he thought a lot of Shirley Tmple

Yes, she is in many of the pics.

Pic 33 is interesting to me. It's almost like the Last Supper painting with MJ in the center surrounded by (well, looks like to me) Abe Lincoln, JFK, Walt Disney, Charlie Chaplin - plus a few I cant recognize.

[*Serenity*]

She smelled the cans, and yes she told me she took a sip. She flew with him often.

Anyway, I really don't care who wants to challange my statement-it's not important to me. So, I won't answer anymore questions about it, or defend what I said.

Have a nice day everyone! Off to work.

LOL

Why didn't she come forward during his trial to give LE her inside scoop?
She stooped to the all time low to taste everyone's drink. WOW and she just stood by and let young children drink alcohol while she was on duty?

okie dokie

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I understand that it was "Lloyds of London" that carried an insurance policy on Michael, and that he received a "Clean" bill of health just weeks before his death..My question is for all you linkmysters...anyone have a link on the parameters for a policy like this??..I have to ask, cause given the rumors, MJ did not sound like he was in a "Clean Bill of Health" category to me?..I would like to know which Doctors, what tests they did, who gave the medical history to them..??? If labwork was done...could it be someone other than MJ supplied those specimens??..I guess I have become so cynical having heard what I have in the last 2 weeks..Sorry 'bout that I dont mean to be so accusatory, but something just doesnt ring true????

LMS

[annalicious]

Honestly, defense attorneys always turn the victim to the bad guy in trials. I'm not surprised at all. It's their job. jmo

I'm a lurker. I've followed the discussion for a while.

Don't take it as an offense. Do you have a personal problem? Did you or your family members fall victim to a child molester?

[MiamiNice1]

She smelled the cans, and yes she told me she took a sip. She flew with him often.

Anyway, I really don't care who wants to challange my statement-it's not important to me. So, I won't answer anymore questions about it, or defend what I said.

Have a nice day everyone! Off to work.
Thanks for sharing the story, DeeN. I believe her, and this goes to show that there was a LOT of evidence out there that was not heard by the jury.

Here's the thing.....no one can possibly defend this man if they do not know him personally. I mean, even IF anyone here knew MJ personally, they probably STILL would NOT know the TRUTH. NO ONE can possibly know except for Michael - especially about something so deeply disturbing as pedophilia.

Like with any crime, we usually do not have a "videotape" of the event and decisions must be made with the evidence presented. Many of us came to the "guilty" conclusion and others thought differently.....that should be respected, but it should not be used as a factual opinion of any sort.......because NO ONE can possibly know the truth of what happened.

imo

[who_is_it]

This is just getting sadder and sadder... the news on so much of this...spiraling down hill quickly as the news is coming out.

This morning I caught on one of the main morning news shows...Nancy P. speaking up...there is no HR 600 for him...NP explaining the reasons it won't go forward for a discussion...then Sheila J. was shown making a comment (sheepishly IMO) about it was right after the funeral or something like that and she will keep trying (paraphrasing from my memory) JMO

She should never have gotten up before millions and his family at that service and announced that before she was aware if it would have gone through or not. JMO

I feel the same like you. I believe there are hundreds of pics of the raid... but they digged the worst ones out.

[aproudmom]

Guess they didn't care

All these photos were taken inside the house, as deputies faced the daunting task of sifting through all of MJ's stuff.

By the way, most of the evidence involving drugs was never admitted at trial, because authorities felt it was not relevant to the molestation charge. Most of this evidence hasn't surfaced until we combed through tens of thousands of documents and photos.
http://www.tmz.com/

[*Serenity*]

I understand that it was "Lloyds of London" that carried an insurance policy on Michael, and that he received a "Clean" bill of health just weeks before his death..My question is for all you linkmysters...anyone have a link on the parameters for a policy like this??..I have to ask, cause given the rumors, MJ did not sound like he was in a "Clean Bill of Health" category to me?..I would like to know which Doctors, what tests they did, who gave the medical history to them..??? If labwork was done...could it be someone other than MJ supplied those specimens??..I guess I have become so cynical having heard what I have in the last 2 weeks..Sorry 'bout that I dont mean to be so accusatory, but something just doesnt ring true????

LMS


I think TMZ has a link where LofLondon had a death clause in the policy to cover overdose--- but NOT death by natural causes. Hinky Meter!

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I think TMZ has a link where LofLondon had a death clause in the policy to cover overdose--- but NOT death by natural causes. Hinky Meter!

LOL..You have one of those too???? (my bolding)

Well, I am more interested in understanding how the claim of "Clean Bill of Health" could be claimed over and over again by people..like AEG person..and others..Cant recall the names right now..sorry

LMS

[CinderL.]

Dr. Murray issued a statement he won't talk before the autopsy results are released. Could it be Diprivan doesn't show up in tests if it moves through the body quickly?

I think it may not show up.

[mrsmcgoo]

I understand that it was "Lloyds of London" that carried an insurance policy on Michael, and that he received a "Clean" bill of health just weeks before his death..My question is for all you linkmysters...anyone have a link on the parameters for a policy like this??..I have to ask, cause given the rumors, MJ did not sound like he was in a "Clean Bill of Health" category to me?..I would like to know which Doctors, what tests they did, who gave the medical history to them..??? If labwork was done...could it be someone other than MJ supplied those specimens??..I guess I have become so cynical having heard what I have in the last 2 weeks..Sorry 'bout that I dont mean to be so accusatory, but something just doesnt ring true????

LMS

Awesome post!

I couldn't agree more. How could he ever have passed this test, unless like you said, someone else supplied the specimens?

Hope LE keeps digging and trace back what Dr. gave him the 5 hour physical. Disgusts me!

JMO

[CinderL.]

it has been pointed out before and is really obvious when you look at the pics: The police created this mess!! How come posters are acting as if these photos could show that MJ was a "messy" instead?

I think you are right. The police made the mess. MJ did have a lot of stuff though. :wink:

[*Serenity*]

[/B]

LOL..You have one of those too???? (my bolding)

Well, I am more interested in understanding how the claim of "Clean Bill of Health" could be claimed over and over again by people..like AEG person..and others..Cant recall the names right now..sorry

LMS

Yes... maaam..... I sure do. LOL

A clean bill of health yet the insurance throw in a clause to cover for OD... not natural death speaks volumes, at least for me. They knew- someone knew- or this would NOT have been stated.

I still remain with the opinion that MJ may have went over the edge with his already problem, when he found out they signed him up for additional concerts, when he thought originally he was only doing 10.
That probably did freak / stress him out even more, knowing he could not do that.

But hey-- I'm just a person reading information and know nothing more than anyone else. :)

[MiamiNice1]

He must be a blind dematologist. j/k All of them are in deep. imo

If you scroll down further it states:

"Sources say Dr. Arnold Klein and Dr. Conrad Murray have not turned over the medical records the L.A. County Coroner's office has requested. We're told both doctors have turned over some records, but the coroner's office has not gotten the complete file from either doctor."

:scared:
Yes, I wondered if any of these doctors were crazy enough to have kept a written record of their dealings with MJ? How could they? They were probably smart enough to know how to cover their unethical backsides.

Look what's happening now......if they have no written records, then it didn't happen? :rolleyes:

imo

[*Serenity*]

I think you are right. The police made the mess. MJ did have a lot of stuff though. :wink:

Once LE gets that precious warrant they do whatever the H they want. In some cases LE has raided the wrong homes and destroyed them, and guess what... they say oh well. Clean it up yourself and oopsy!

I have never agreed with the ways LE destroys personal property when they raid anyone, they go just a tad over the top with tossing everything around the home.

[CinderL.]

I understand that it was "Lloyds of London" that carried an insurance policy on Michael, and that he received a "Clean" bill of health just weeks before his death..My question is for all you linkmysters...anyone have a link on the parameters for a policy like this??..I have to ask, cause given the rumors, MJ did not sound like he was in a "Clean Bill of Health" category to me?..I would like to know which Doctors, what tests they did, who gave the medical history to them..??? If labwork was done...could it be someone other than MJ supplied those specimens??..I guess I have become so cynical having heard what I have in the last 2 weeks..Sorry 'bout that I dont mean to be so accusatory, but something just doesnt ring true????

LMS

Or the lab work came back with drugs in his system, then they got the Lloyds of London policy with the drug overdose clause. ??? Maybe???

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I think it may not show up.

Its only an educated guess CinderL..but if MJ died during this treatment, there would not have been the time for his body to metabolize it completely...I have a sneaky feelng the reason for delay in calling for help was to bide time, and efforts to maintain Cardiac function (compressions) and Oxygen circulating to allow for that to happen..not to mention get rid of all the other treatment paraphenalia.

All this would explain just why Dr. Murray isnt going to say a word until he learns if his efforts were fruitful...I tend to think..something is going to show up...

LMS

[cutiepatootie61]

I think it may not show up. But if this diprivan is the reason for death, it should show up shouldn't it? I mean if once its removed the patient wakes up, that is not the case with MJ. If when Dr. Murray entered the room to remove the IV drip, he noticed that MJ was not breathing and began it administer CPR as he stated, It sounds like MJ was already deceased when he found him. Without the heart pumping, everything else shuts down, including metabolism, so this drug if responsible for his death should be detected, there was no metabolism to rid of it, get what I mean?

I understand they will never be able to determine the length of usage due to the half life, but if it killed him, it should be there. moo

[lilismom]

OK. So I don't duplicate anything -- did you read the articles I posted in the links thread?


Yep. Wow. Will keep reading...

IMO,
Lilismom

[CinderL.]

Makes sense, but if they didn't test for Diprovan right away, would it still show up in the samples? I have no idea. ??

[Firehead11]

I think you are right. The police made the mess. MJ did have a lot of stuff though. :wink:


Did you see a lot of prescription drugs in any of the photos? I sure as hell didn't.

[*Serenity*]

Yes, I wondered if any of these doctors were crazy enough to have kept a written record of their dealings with MJ? How could they? They were probably smart enough to know how to cover their unethical backsides.

Look what's happening now......if they have no written records, then it didn't happen? :rolleyes:

imo

But..... they still leave a footprint in their systems when it comes to their billing records. oopsy

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Makes sense, but if they didn't test for Diprovan right away, would it still show up in the samples? I have no idea. ??

Yep, it sure will, in it's various stages of breakdown..they will find it in the brain, the liver and possibly the kidney/bladder (urine)..These metabolites are not influenced ( to my knowledge) by decomposition, and also the specimens retrieved by the coroner would have been preserved..so I guess we will jst have to wait on see??

LMS

[tiptop]

Makes sense, but if they didn't test for Diprovan right away, would it still show up in the samples? I have no idea. ??

According to CNN's Dr Gupta, it should but it does depend on how long before death the drug was injected.

http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/06/should-diprivan-propofol-be-a-controlled-substance/?eref=time_health

[*Serenity*]

Did you see a lot of prescription drugs in any of the photos? I sure as hell didn't.

I also noticed their were NO photos of any bagged evidence and where were their gloves?

:)

[Nic99]

Yep. Wow. Will keep reading...

IMO,
Lilismom

Ditto, just wanted to say a big thanks to Athena2 for her excellent information on this site and I have found it all very enlightening. I can see why she is so sure of MJ's innocence and why the jury found him NG; justice served full stop.

I am sure the truth will be revealed as to what actually caused Michael's death and I hope the Doctors that continued to prescribe him dangerous levels/cocktails of drugs are held accountable, so that this is not allowed to happen EVER again. As has been linked on this thread, Doctors sign an oath and, as such imo, are trusted professionals and our life is trusted in their hands.

[*Serenity*]

Yep, it sure will, in it's various stages of breakdown..they will find it in the brain, the liver and possibly the kidney/bladder (urine)..These metabolites are not influenced ( to my knowledge) by decomposition, and also the specimens retrieved by the coroner would have been preserved..so I guess we will jst have to wait on see??

LMS

Hey Lynda--

I'm no medical expert so I was really amazed to learn that the brain will also show previous overdoses. That will be very interesting... imo

[MiamiNice1]

But..... they still leave a footprint in their systems when it comes to their billing records. oopsy
Cash? No footprint - it just goes *POOF*

imo

[CinderL.]

Did you see a lot of prescription drugs in any of the photos? I sure as hell didn't.

I wasn't talking about drugs, just stuff. Like stuff you would have to dust. :laugh:

[MiamiNice1]

Records? No way! All those drugs would have to be reported to the government. Did you see The Today Show this a.m.? The hired a once famous person to go undercover. He showed just how easy it was to get these drugs if you are famous. He went to a well known Dr. to the Stars. Gave the Dr. lots of cash and came out with a bag full of all sorts of stuff.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/

Web only: Conaway on celebrities, drugs
No, I didn't see that - and thanks for sharing. It sounds more and more like this is a HUGE problem. From people who are nobody (I know of an acquaintance who easily doctor shops here in Miami) to the rich and famous.

Seems the only way to stem this tide is to go tot he source - crack down HARD on the ones providing the drugs - the DOCTORS. If they would start busting them big time, odds are, those doctors probably wouldn't keep doing it.

imo

[*Serenity*]

Not if you are being paid with cash under the table like MJ was doing. imo


The prescriptions with alias names they located at his home with the Dr. prescribing will certainly lead to further investigation of them,
and I would like to see the pharmacies nailed for handing out prescriptons with NO name at all on the bottles.

[CinderL.]

Yep, it sure will, in it's various stages of breakdown..they will find it in the brain, the liver and possibly the kidney/bladder (urine)..These metabolites are not influenced ( to my knowledge) by decomposition, and also the specimens retrieved by the coroner would have been preserved..so I guess we will jst have to wait on see??

LMS

OK good. If it is there, I think the Dr.'s, the one that started the IV and whoever got the drug, have a lot to answer for. IMO

[Nic99]

well, if no one can possibly know the truth, then these accusations should never have been published or gone to court. Why should anyone respect a "guilty" conclusion if it can never be proven or refuted? Sounds like defamation.
imo

Exactly right and why have we got a legal system :rolleyes:

[MoonHarvest]

Oh brother. Joe Jackson suspects foul play? Only if you were born yesterday would you believe this. Joe, you are not getting any of MJs insurance money since he over dosed. imo

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090710/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_investigation

Hello, I just read the same article and came here to post.

This caught my attention:

"He said Michael's daughter, Paris, who spoke at the Tuesday memorial service, was taking the death hard and was crying whenever Michael's name is mentioned. "

Poor little Paris.

"He said that she might have a future in the entertainment business along with the youngest son, nicknamed Blanket, who "can really dance.""

I sure hope for the sake of the children this is only if they are ready, able, and willing, "to have a future in the entertainment business." (thud) Not so sure the "entertainment business" proved to be so good for Michael Jackson. Given the outcome, and the results of his start, with "Joe" as his manager.

[MiamiNice1]

well, if no one can possibly know the truth, then these accusations should never have been published or gone to court. Why should anyone respect a "guilty" conclusion if it can never be proven or refuted? Sounds like defamation.
imo
I agree. They did not go to court with adequate or organized information. They did not present a good case, imo. I was very disappointed with the prosecutor.

imo

[*Serenity*]

Cash? No footprint - it just goes *POOF*

imo

Hmmm.... well what about the pharmacy issuing the drug... where does that come into play with any of the doctors prescribing said drugs to alias names?

Hard for me to think like a criminal doctor. LOL

[Lyndawitha"Y]

According to CNN's Dr Gupta, it should but it does depend on how long before death the drug was injected.

http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/06/should-diprivan-propofol-be-a-controlled-substance/?eref=time_health

Dont mean to be picky tiptop..but this drug being discussed is not just an injection..but an "Infusion"..as when the infusion (IV fluids) stops so does the effect....and even when the person wakes up, they have to be monitored very very closely..

Just a side note..since this drug is not on any list for Drug Controls like narcotics/opiates are, and in the past, DEA and Coroners have seen extrememly few of such abuses, it would have been difficult to prosecute..as IF any death resulted from this drug..it was usually in a hospital enviornment, not in someones home..(outside of the few examples of aneasthetist-self medicating)

LMS

[kennedy06]

I would like to know how long one has to take xanax before one can reach the level of needing them in the double digits to feel their effects.

[Tokyo Rose]

I don't recall how old MJ was when they must have taken these pics. Even my teenagers room never looked this bad.

Interesting. I wonder if we'll see new pics of his current abode? Was it any better? Or, still the same?


It's hard to keep a bedroom clean when it's stuffed full of toys for his guests.
jmo

[MiamiNice1]

Hmmm.... well what about the pharmacy issuing the drug... where does that come into play with any of the doctors prescribing said drugs to alias names?

Hard for me to think like a criminal doctor. LOL
It's a small world and it would probably surprise us how many doctors are acquainted with the pharmacists in their areas - it happens here in Miami, even with its massive urban sprawl.

The pharmacy is to blame if there are no names on the bottles. But how sould the pharmacy be to blame if it is filling out prescriptions to unknown people that are written by a doctor?

Would it sound too much like "paranoia" if I said everyone is probably in cahoots? :ohmy:

imo

[Tokyo Rose]

Excuse me - if MJ wasn't home it would be the parents' responsibility. His mother was there. JMO

Ahhhh I think he kept the mother separate in a guest house all the time. jmo

[lilismom]

I wasn't talking about drugs, just stuff. Like stuff you would have to dust. :laugh:



What room or rooms are these pictures of?

IMO,
Lilismom

[*Serenity*]

It's a small world and it would probably surprise us how many doctors are acquainted with the pharmacists in their areas - it happens here in Miami, even with its massive urban sprawl.

The pharmacy is to blame if there are no names on the bottles. But how sould the pharmacy be to blame if it is filling out prescriptions to unknown people that are written by a doctor?

Would it sound too much like "paranoia" if I said everyone is probably in cahoots? :ohmy:

imo


See-- I don't know how they can go after one without going after the other, because it is like a chain reaction to me. Alias name, cash for said Dr. to prescibe meds, phones pharmacy requesting no name or alias and then pharmacy produces bottles of drugs, either for pick up or delivery in order to protect the celebrity. IIRC Janet even had a prescription which was in someone else's name in order to protect her idenity. I found that link sometime last week, so I don't have it handy.

[MiamiNice1]

Bet this case will blow the doors wide open on these greedy, star stuck doctors who are breaking the law. Must be some changes in the law.

Let's be real here. MJ never took no for an answer. He would have gotten these hard core drugs in Europe, Asia or Mexico if he couldn't get them here. imo
Seems the LAW is the only thing that could put a stop to this. If doctors are afraid for themselves, the prescribing would never happen and MJ would have been reported, he would be forced to account....then the ball could start rolling towards MJ getting help.

But in the real world of drug addiction, you've made an excellent observation; An addict will do whatever it takes to get their drugs. How unreal - the only entity able to give a big NO to DRUGS to Michael, STILL probably could not be effective in stemming his drug use because MJ had unlimited resources.

Let's face it - MJ was too rich and powerful to be stopped.

imo

[MoonHarvest]

Did Michael want his children to "be in the business?" Not so sure, as he did have them wear veils when out in public.

[Firehead11]

I would like to know how long one has to take xanax before one can reach the level of needing them in the double digits to feel their effects.


One of my family members had her back broken while she worked in a home. The doctors stated she would never walk again. This was many years ago. During her recovery period she was taking peradan (sp) like they were M&M's. I would lay odds that she must have had about 30 pills a day. She took these pills for years and I can truthfully tell you that you would have never known that she had so many pills in her. Thankfully she is walking and now off that medication. So you can never tell the tolerence level of any one person.

[CinderL.]

What room or rooms are these pictures of?

IMO,
Lilismom

:unsure: Don't know.

[Firehead11]

Did Michael want his children to "be in the business?" Not so sure, as he did have them wear veils when out in public.

I don't know but it was not him that wanted the veils on the children. It was DR's suggestion. The link is in these threads.

[Pretty Leaf]

Hmmm.... well what about the pharmacy issuing the drug... where does that come into play with any of the doctors prescribing said drugs to alias names?

Hard for me to think like a criminal doctor. LOL

What I don't get is the prescritions being given out in alias, when filled, does the doctors name go on the label from the pharmacy?

I can see a doctor giving a prescrpition to Joe Blow but when filled it would be Joe Blow and lisitng Dr, So and So.?

So were there alias both for the patient and the doctor?

[MiamiNice1]

See-- I don't know how they can go after one without going after the other, because it is like a chain reaction to me. Alias name, cash for said Dr. to prescibe meds, phones pharmacy requesting no name or alias and then pharmacy produces bottles of drugs, either for pick up or delivery in order to protect the celebrity. IIRC Janet even had a prescription which was in someone else's name in order to protect her idenity. I found that link sometime last week, so I don't have it handy.
To me, the pharmacy is absolved if the prescriptions are made in other people's names. I mean, how could they possibly know these are aliases? The person comes to the pharmacy, pays in cash, no identification is necessary.

In this case, the prescribing doctor would be held accountable, right?

Now, IF the bottles were BLANK.....then the pharmacy is probably involved.

imo

[missinglink]

Hi Lynda --

Geez. Just trying to get a handle on all of these.

Isn't versed also an anaesthesia ?? Percocet can become addictive within 2-3 weeks and they have just been recently banned along with vicodin because of liver damage caused by the high doses of acetaminophen.

I would think the prednisone and Promethazine was taken for the Lupus/vitiligo - very common in auto-immune diseases.

Athena2, I love your posts but just wanted to say that Percocet and Vicodin have not been banned YET. It could possibly happen soon, but the FDA hasn't decided yet.

[Firehead11]

I wasn't talking about drugs, just stuff. Like stuff you would have to dust. :laugh:


Oh I know but don't you think it was strange that some rooms were completely in order and others were not? And since they have released the name of all those drugs that were found during that search warrant, wouldn't you think that you would see many prescriptions laying around?

[who_is_it]

Most. stupid. poll. ever.

One should vote "high" or "dry". If you watch the videos you just get a glimpse for 2 seconds. Furthermore his face is covered on several occasions. Based on what they could see (or better: not see) more than 60% voted "high". Downright stupid.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/10/michael-jackson-doctor-visits-video/

[MoonHarvest]

Doesn't it make you want to be sick? It sure does me. He's a vulture, imo. Katherine better keep his greedy, no class paws away from them.


It makes, me very concerned and sad. However, on the other hand, everything he says while out there giving these interviews, is a reflection of him and open for anyone to see. Hope the Judge who decides the fate of the children takes notes well.

I do believe their daddy loved them, and most likely would not have wanted them paraded before the public. As he knew all to well what a terrible toll it can take. ESPECIALLY on children who NEED to be able to be children.

[*Serenity*]

What I don't get is the prescritions being given out in alias, when filled, does the doctors name go on the label from the pharmacy?

I can see a doctor giving a prescrpition to Joe Blow but when filled it would be Joe Blow and lisitng Dr, So and So.?

So were there alias both for the patient and the doctor?

Well- see that is what I'm thinking but then if that is the case, well it blows me away that the pharmacy is nothing more than a legal kinda sorta -aka- drug dealer on our street!

So many people really need medication for health reasons, and they cannot obtain the necessary meds due to Dr.'s not prescribing or no money to get them. oh well- that's a whole new topic ..hey?

[Hanalei]

Where is the proof that she met with a civil attorney prior to meeting MJ did this civil attorney testify during the trial if not then it's just hearsay from MJ attorney. Link please to this so called civil attorney's testimony.


Yea --he "groomed" them so well she met with a Civil Attorney PRIOR to the family ever meeting Michael Jackson. This was all brought out during the trial. Also MJ was sooooo stupid he molested this boy AFTER the Bashir documentary. If anyone believes that I have a bridge to sell. JMO

[CinderL.]

Oh I know but don't you think it was strange that some rooms were completely in order and others were not? And since they have released the name of all those drugs that were found during that search warrant, wouldn't you think that you would see many prescriptions laying around?

The hallway wasn't messed up, with the Christmas decorations, is this what you are talking about. I looked quickly at the pics. I'll look again later. Are there are other pictures that show them collecting drugs maybe? I don't have a clue. Today is the first time I have heard anything about them finding drugs back then. But, I didn't follow it at all then. :shrug:

[lilismom]

Oh I know but don't you think it was strange that some rooms were completely in order and others were not? And since they have released the name of all those drugs that were found during that search warrant, wouldn't you think that you would see many prescriptions laying around?



Exactly why I asked what rooms these pictures are of? Anyone know?

IMO,
Lilismom

[GentleBreeze]

Most. stupid. poll. ever.

One should vote "high" or "dry". If you watch the videos you just get a glimpse for 2 seconds. Furthermore his face is covered on several occasions. Based on what they could see (or better: not see) more than 60% voted "high". Downright stupid.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/10/michael-jackson-doctor-visits-video/

He doesn't look high to me. He looks like he is trying to shade his eyes from the sun.

Well what kind of poll do you expect to see? This after all is on TMZ! LOL

[Hanalei]

Chris Tucker:laugh: He not a celebrity just an over paid actor he did a few big movies and haven't been in any since. IMO I won't watch any movies with him in it anymore because of his voice it's like nails on a chalkboard.


I don't know why the mentioned celebrities weren't on the witness stand. The one who confirmed what the others claimed was Chris Tucker.

[CinderL.]

Exactly why I asked what rooms these pictures are of? Anyone know?

IMO,
Lilismom

Here is a link that shows some of the rooms before they messed them up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1197565/Sheriffs-raid-Michael-Jacksons-Neverland-Ranch.html

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I read this and think MJ was a cash cow. Greed took over. The part that really makes me mad is no one bothered to remove the kids from the home because they were living with a drug addict. imo

The big problem here is how does a "Complaintant" prove it if everyone in the household have signed a confidentialty agreement...Having these agreements is a double edge sword legally, while it does protect someone's privacy, it also Hides alot of dirty laundry..Very difficult to bridge that gap with accusations, or suggestions..and in MJ's case, those that did allege..were branded as "seeking 15 minutes of fame" or "attacking" a cash cow..a term I have read here alot!

All this did not happen in a vaccum..there were alot of players that enabled this to happen, including MJ himself. He was not duped into abusing himself with drugs and treatments that put him at risk..IMO

LMS

[ScoobyDoo]

I am a firm believer in...If it walks like a duck...........quacks like a duck.......and looks like a duck...For goodness sake, it's a DUCK!

How come there aren't more people like Michael Jackson, arrested sexual development , grown men sleeping with little boys, buying the children expensive gifts, spending lots of free time with children. I mean, if all it takes is a rotten childhood, why aren't more high profile, respected men doing the same...

OH WAIT....There are...they're called pedophiles!

IMO

Except that Michael Jackson was NOT a pedophile. Do you enjoy seeing innocent people arrested, and their lives and families destroyed by false allegations. I would hope not.

[Pretty Leaf]

Doesn't it make you want to be sick? It sure does me. He's a vulture, imo. Katherine better keep his greedy, no class paws away from them.

Since Katherine lives in Encino and Joe in Las Vegas for the past 10 yrs I can't see him getting past Katherine to groom another kid for the entertainment business.

[GentleBreeze]

And so how can they possibly be normal? It amazes me how people think that because his daughter made a statement that she is so well adjusted. :confused:

Their father was an addict; they don't go to school; they go out wearing masks and veils. And how about saying "We love you, Daddy" every time they saw him. And now they're in the hands of the most dysfunctional family on earth. GMAB!

moo

They don't have to go to school. They have been tutored from a very young age and reading by the age of 2. The nurse that was coming this years said they are very intelligent, social and giving children who love to interact with each other and others.

She said that MJ always interacted with his children and was one of the most humble people she had ever met.

So yeah, since Paris has really known him for 11 years, I believe her over others who have never met MJ.

[ScoobyDoo]

And so how can they possibly be normal? It amazes me how people think that because his daughter made a statement that she is so well adjusted. :confused:

Their father was an addict; they don't go to school; they go out wearing masks and veils. And how about saying "We love you, Daddy" every time they saw him. And now they're in the hands of the most dysfunctional family on earth. GMAB!

moo


I know I think it because every single person who had personal contact with those kids, have said so.

[GoldBug]

I read this and think MJ was a cash cow. Greed took over. The part that really makes me mad is no one bothered to remove the kids from the home because they were living with a drug addict. imo

CPS found nothing wrong

[Hanalei]

IMO And this is why I won't be surprised at some of the MJ defenders come to find out that their own kids might be molested because they think it's ok for an grown adult to sleep in bed with their kids. That's scary


I agree. He did "groom" the parents.. even the siblings.
Some people really are naive to the way molestation and manipulation occurs.
Its almost the same as human trafficking of many runaways. The "finders" as they are referred as often befriend them, only to set them up for the **** to swoon in and take over. The "nice" week is always present in the takeover of a human.

[Nic99]

They don't have to go to school. They have been tutored from a very young age and reading by the age of 2. The nurse that was coming this years said they are very intelligent, social and giving children who love to interact with each other and others.

She said that MJ always interacted with his children and was one of the most humble people she had ever met.

So yeah, since Paris has really known him for 11 years, I believe her over others who have never met MJ.

Great post:thumbsup:

[*Serenity*]

-------------

i think it all goes back to the manufacturers who produce all these drugs. taken off assembly lines (theft) and sold on the streets to drug dealers. therefore by-passing pharmacys. i'll bet when its all said and done, no one will b prosecuted. this is JMO


Well- I somewhat agree with your post, however it is coming out that pharmacies were doling out prescription drugs without a NAME on the prescription! I find that to be criminal because let's say you or even myself are pulled over by LE for a traffic violation, and we have prescription drugs in our car in someone's else's name, that is illegal right there. So- if Michael Jackson is going to a pharmacy or one of his employees, they are picking up medication for a 'no name' on the bottle.
Does the pharmacy actually have the legal right to not name anyone on a bottle of medication? AND when I pick up medication for my husband I have to sign documents with the pharmacy who I am, print/sign the form and then name relationship. I guess I just don't get this so called legal way to get around all of this.

With the sloppy police investigation of not securing this home, and now trying to backtrack, and then no real paper trail. ....... I guess I can agree that no criminal charges will be happening. :( Seriously- who is to blame for such a tangled mess of unethical practice here?

[GentleBreeze]

Here is a link that shows some of the rooms before they messed them up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1197565/Sheriffs-raid-Michael-Jacksons-Neverland-Ranch.html

Thank you for the link.

I have never seen these photos before. It is sad how LE tore everything apart and just left the mess behind but they often do that.

imo

[GoldBug]

Oh brother. Joe Jackson suspects foul play? Only if you were born yesterday would you believe this. Joe, you are not getting any of MJs insurance money since he over dosed. imo

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090710/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_investigation

Link Please
TIA

[Hanalei]

ITA MJ even had his own pharmacy in his house. He could buy anything and anyone he wanted. IMO


IMO and I've said it before...MJ wants what he wants...he had already invested time and $$$$$$$$ in the boy and that family. Obviously, he thought he could get away with it. And why wouldn't he? He did the same thing....again and again. A 2 million payout...a year later...a close call to the tune of 20 million....and yet...Mother's still sent their little boys off to Michael Jackson's bed. IMO

[Pretty Leaf]

And so how can they possibly be normal? It amazes me how people think that because his daughter made a statement that she is so well adjusted. :confused:

Their father was an addict; they don't go to school; they go out wearing masks and veils. And how about saying "We love you, Daddy" every time they saw him. And now they're in the hands of the most dysfunctional family on earth. GMAB!

moo

bolding mine

they are home schooled like so many children, and the veils were DR request as she had threats to kidnap the children.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-513206/My-life-mother-Michael-Jacksons-children-Debbie-Rowe.html

"She is unhappy, however, that the children's faces have been revealed.
"The veils were my idea, not Michael's. I had kidnap threats when they were babies. "

"

[GoldBug]

So that makes it ok for MJ to feed him Jesus Juice?

Please supply a link to this

[GentleBreeze]

She was brought up for eleven years by a drug addicted freak. I bet she has no friends....just cousins who are the children of his crazy siblings.

She needs to get away from the Jacksons and have a normal childhood.

moo

She needs to remember her daddy's teachings. He told her life is about loving others and to always being appreciative of what one has.

She needs to stay grounded like he raised her to be.

She will be just fine and so will the other two.

imo

[Tokyo Rose]

Oh I know but don't you think it was strange that some rooms were completely in order and others were not? And since they have released the name of all those drugs that were found during that search warrant, wouldn't you think that you would see many prescriptions laying around?

Pictures were taken of the drugs. They were labeled and put into evidence bags. They would also list where they were found. They were taken as evidence. jmo

It looked like the rooms they were interested in were MJ's master bedroom, his master closet and bathroom, and his secret room. jmo

[Nic99]

They DO have to go to school. That's where children learn socialization. And if they were home schooled it wasn't too often because they were on the road with MJ most of the time. I have no doubt that they are lacking a fine education.

moo

Of course they don't 'have' to go to school. Thousands of US children are home-educated and grown up perfectly socialised and well-balanced. Tutors can travel too, so I am sure they were tutored during their times of travel with their Dad. They probably have a better education than most of the kids in your average US state school, due to more one-on-one education imo.

[MoonHarvest]

My heart breaks for those children, especially little Paris after what I have seen and read. Their grief and confusion has to be painful.

I only hope that divine forces ,karma, fate, what ever other worldy forces out there that I am unable to see, know, or grasp, provide a healthy path allowing these children to flourish.

I fear that little Paris may have been trying to be M J's caretaker. I hope not.

[Tokyo Rose]

Please supply a link to this

A link to my question? I don't think so. LOL

[Hanalei]

But they were defending MJ for doing it. Sleeping doesn't always mean sex but you can molest a child without having sex.


Maybe CW should ask her? I have not seen one poster say they would let their child sleep with an non family adult. Maybe Magnolia can show us who it was.

I am outta here!

imo

[ScoobyDoo]

She was brought up for eleven years by a drug addicted freak. I bet she has no friends....just cousins who are the children of his crazy siblings.

She needs to get away from the Jacksons and have a normal childhood.

moo


It never ceases to amaze me how a complete stranger, looking in from the outside, feels they are in a position to make this kind of judgement. I wonder if the wishes of the kids are ever considered in those judgments.

[GentleBreeze]

They DO have to go to school. That's where children learn socialization. And if they were home schooled it wasn't too often because they were on the road with MJ most of the time. I have no doubt that they are lacking a fine education.

moo

Sorry but, I will rely on the vast many who have spoken out that really knew these children and really knew their father.

All of them have had nothing but the highest praises for how well adjusted these three children are and what a wonderful daddy they had.

[lilismom]

IMO And this is why I won't be surprised at some of the MJ defenders come to find out that their own kids might be molested because they think it's ok for an grown adult to sleep in bed with their kids. That's scary


I haven't read enough yet to really say what I believe re: his guilt, but I think I'm correct in saying that I don't think that is what any of the "MJ defenders" as you called them are saying. They're saying that they don't believe MJ to be a pedophile and neither did the jurors charged with deciding the issue. MJ believed it was ok to "share your bed" with people you love whether related to you or not. The parents of these children obviously did not object. At least not at first. Most people, however, do not think it is OK for adults to sleep with children.

IMO,
Lilismom

[Tokyo Rose]

Thank you for the link.

I have never seen these photos before. It is sad how LE tore everything apart and just left the mess behind but they often do that.

imo

That's not LE's job to be a clean up service. jmo

[GentleBreeze]

It never ceases to amaze me how a complete stranger, looking in from the outside, feels they are in a position to make this kind of judgment. I wonder if the wishes of the kids are ever considered in those judgments.

LOL!

Amazing isn't it?

[ScoobyDoo]

They DO have to go to school. That's where children learn socialization. And if they were home schooled it wasn't too often because they were on the road with MJ most of the time. I have no doubt that they are lacking a fine education.

moo

I have to ask if you made your new nic, for the express purpose of coming here and hurling rumors, of which you have no belief or knowledge of the truth?

[GentleBreeze]

That's not LE's job to be a clean up service. jmo

Yeah, I know they have all the power to destroy property and they know it.

Go in like gang busters just cuz they can.

imo

[Hanalei]

When I had to testify in my ex friend's murder trial the defence tried to make me not look credible and I have no criminal record and they tried to mess me up by asking things I didn't remember well because these were things that happened yrs ago. It's their job to make anyone testifying look bad.


Honestly, defense attorneys always turn the victim to the bad guy in trials. I'm not surprised at all. It's their job. jmo

[Nic99]

Reply to: ScoobyDoo

Probably lol - not as if it hasn't happened before!

[Lyndawitha"Y]

A link to my question? I don't think so. LOL

Thats okay Tokyo Rose, I heard that term during the trial, and in testimony..so all the poster has to do is go to the archived files and find it...I've got your back with your question....Dont need a link to some Magazine Rag..to back up that accusation..I heard it with my very own ears...LOL

LMS:laugh:

[MoonHarvest]

Sorry but, I will rely on the vast many who have spoken out that really knew these children and really knew their father.

All of them have had nothing but the highest praises for how well adjusted these three children are and what a wonderful daddy they had.


Thanks for reminding me Gentle.

[VC2]

Hello, I just read the same article and came here to post.

This caught my attention:

"He said Michael's daughter, Paris, who spoke at the Tuesday memorial service, was taking the death hard and was crying whenever Michael's name is mentioned. "

Poor little Paris.

"He said that she might have a future in the entertainment business along with the youngest son, nicknamed Blanket, who "can really dance.""

I sure hope for the sake of the children this is only if they are ready, able, and willing, "to have a future in the entertainment business." (thud) Not so sure the "entertainment business" proved to be so good for Michael Jackson. Given the outcome, and the results of his start, with "Joe" as his manager.

I read that Paris wants to be a fashion designer, the older son is interested in producing films iirc.

Joe is just babbling on trying to have some importance. I am not to concerned because imo even if katherine was unable to stop him from interfering, janet, jermaine and the other sons would.

[lilismom]

Yeah, I know they have all the power to destroy property and they know it.

Go in like gang busters just cuz they can.

imo

And probably based on the charges, they were even more careless than usual. IMO, of course.

IMO,
Lilismom