Michael Jackson ~ Friday 7/10

[ScoobyDoo]

Michael in his most important role ever, dad:

1. Reportedly had a very bad drug problem.
2. Reports that his kids had to tell him repeatedly that they loved him.
3. Heard that when the children were completely comfortable around Grace but not MJ...they were nervous (ex. when they were singing his song. This may have been disputed.)
4. What's up with MJ calling blanket an "apple head" especially when he was so sensitive growing up about his nose? (I heard it on tv.)
5. Just all the odd things, drama, masks, plastic surgery (not being happy with himself),

The Good Things:
1. Nice manners were taught.
2. Saw the world.
3. Seemed gentle with them.



There was a report that Michael was abducted by aliens. I suppose you believe that too.

[CinderL.]

Serenity:

I found a PDF and transferred to my desktop but don't know how to put in in a link. I will have to ask my son how to do it. I have a Mac.

Basically she was suppose to get 1 million per year for the first three years and a house. After that she was suppose to get 900,000 per year for the next six years. She took him back to court because she needed money and it was only minimal. She turned in a list of bills. It's spelled out. From the way I calculate this, she should be getting another 900,000 this year for the last time. I calculate it because of the oldest, age of 12. Her lawyer was on TV saying she hadn't been receiving money on time or at all. He said she only received 2 million for the first 2 years. I'm looking for that but don't remember the channel.

Anyway, after all payments were made, she was to receive 8.5 million total over the time span. She has visitation rights. Some documents were no longer on the webb.

For now jmo is all I can say.

Do you know when she was last paid?

[CinderL.]

Yes, I think all the children were - I've heard about Jermaine and Janet. Thanks, that was what I have been wondering about. If it was selective or not. Thanks. :smile:

[bkwits]

Exactly, but have the other siblings said that Joe abused them?


I thought I read/heard there was one other boy that was abused, IIRC it was Marlon. I am not sure though.

LaToya said in her autobiograhical book that Joe sexually abused her and Rebbie. Later, after she reconciled with the Jackson family, she said her producer husband made her say that and write it. Her husband, Jack Gordon, did abuse her (if court and police records are correct).

I read Latoya's book many years ago. I can prob find a link if you need it. She also said at the time, but not in her book, "What 35 year old man sleeps with little boys." Again she said Gordon made her say that.

So I don't know what all that means. I believe Rebbie denied the abuse.


IMO

[Calla]

I read in an interview once that Marlon really got the most of the whippings for not performing correctly and Michael felt sort of responsible/ or guilty... because he got it right most of the time.
He did not get the biggest part of punishments from what I understood.

:confused:

I had great parents. It was normal for me to get my azz beat.
I spanked my kids on occasion until they reached an age I felt it unnecessary.. but I never beat them.
I guess it depends on the emotional strength or sensitivity, if you will, of a person as to how traumatic something can be for them

In retrospect, I felt that what I went through was abuse, but what I did was not.
However, I have come to live by a more introspective motto because if it.
That being..life is tough, everyone has been through some tough crap, and we have to get over it and move on. That's what I had to do anyway.

[GoldBug]

------------
ohhhhhhhhhhh it came from Michaels friend.............then that makes it right. lmao

Can you provide a link that it is fake? Never mind, you can never back up what you say

[CinderL.]

There was a report that Michael was abducted by aliens. I suppose you believe that too.

:ohmy: He wasn't? Everyone "thought" he went to Bahrain, but I know what really happened. :laugh:

[Calla]

I believe that Lisa Marie Presley may have said so.

Also read where a decent looking/sounding former employee of his stated that MJ did indeed have a "relationship" with a woman.

I do recall the former employee saying that..not that it made it true. LOL

But I thought I read way back that Lisa Marie and Michael never consummated the marriage.
Like I say though...who knows if what is reported is true or not.

[CinderL.]

I thought I read/heard there was one other boy that was abused, IIRC it was Marlon. I am not sure though.

LaToya said in her autobiograhical book that Joe sexually abused her and Rebbie. Later, after she reconciled with the Jackson family, she said her producer husband made her say that and write it. Her husband, Jack Gordon, did abuse her (if court and police records are correct).

I read Latoya's book many years ago. I can prob find a link if you need it. She also said at the time, but not in her book, "What 35 year old man sleeps with little boys." Again she said Gordon made her say that.

So I don't know what all that means. I believe Rebbie denied the abuse.


IMO Thanks. No I don't need a link. Just curious. Just thinking. Tough job, I know. :laugh:

[Calla]

Lisa Marie said she and Michael were intimate. She was on Oprah.

What does she consider "intimate" ?

That could mean a lot of things.

I do recall other famous people saying they had not had sexual relations when in my opinion they did. LOL

[Tokyo Rose]

Do you know when she was last paid?

No not yet if I can even find it. It was after MJ died that the complaining about her not being paid was on TV. jmo

[CinderL.]

I read in an interview once that Marlon really got the most of the whippings for not performing correctly and Michael felt sort of responsible/ or guilty... because he got it right most of the time.
He did not get the biggest part of punishments from what I understood.

:confused:

I had great parents. It was normal for me to get my azz beat.
I spanked my kids on occasion until they reached an age I felt it unnecessary.. but I never beat them.
I guess it depends on the emotional strength or sensitivity, if you will, of a person as to how traumatic something can be for them

In retrospect, I felt that what I went through was abuse, but what I did was not.
However, I have come to live by a more introspective motto because if it.
That being..life is tough, everyone has been through some tough crap, and we have to get over it and move on. That's what I had to do anyway.

Nice post. Thank you. :smile:

[MoonHarvest]

I do recall the former employee saying that..not that it made it true. LOL

But I thought I read way back that Lisa Marie and Michael never consummated the marriage.
Like I say though...who knows if what is reported is true or not.

Lisa Marie may have felt she did not have to reveal the "truth." It really is a very intimate and private matter between two people. After all, how much should people be privy to? And if you do tell all, what remains special between the two people involved? I sure don't want my husband talking about our intimate life with others, let alone the whole country.

[*Serenity*]

LOL..I did a quick looky-lou..and apparantly back in 2006 he sued his accountants..give me a minute to find that,,LOL

Michael Jackson Sues Accountants for Failing to Pay His Bills Properly


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,238482,00.html

\yikes its pretty sad..when you have to sue a company like this..He is an artist I get that..but did he never learn how to add and subtract..and write checks?..Maybe not..He's been famous since he was a toddler!!..What a delema!!

LMS:laugh:


I am so far behind at this point because I went swimming with my Grandson and husband... it is so hot here and I needed a break...:)

So back to your thinking... in my opinion he never paid a bill in his life and always had someone else managing the business while he just worked, worked, and he knew he was raking in millions. AND to this day I am still pizzed that the real agents were taking in 100,000 a month for that house..... I'm sure the new guy is not paying that, and Michael had no clue what prices were, nor did he ever investigate any of this... too much money and always thought it would always be there.

[GoldBug]

-----------

hey Einstein..........no, i dont have proof. do u have proof that he did? no.......i seriously doubt it.
.

There are already two or three links about it on yesterdays thread

[trucrimegal]

I don't know. But, one brother sure felt responsible for Michael, said he wished he could have died instead. Said he "took care" of MJ, I believe. Very touching interview.

I believe it was Jermaine who said that...

[GoldBug]

I believe it was Jermaine who said that...

I think you are right

[Calla]

-----------

hey Einstein..........no, i dont have proof. do u have proof that he did? no.......i seriously doubt it.
Yes i did say that it was my opinion that it was not the real MJ at the press conference. I have watched that video over and over and my opinion will not change on that. for cring out loud..............look at the mouth.....his mannerisms..............but if want to believe it is the real MJ, then thats your perogative.


I just wanted to say that I had my doubts as to whether it was him in London as well.
I happened to read a paper form the UK when the announcement was made back in March I think, and that paper was stating the same thing.
It was odd and I will always have doubts about it.

[MoonHarvest]

-------------

i asked u for a link that says its true........i dont see u posting the link.

I have not seen where u can back up your fact.

http://www.intent.com/gothamchopra/blog/michael-jackson-and-kim-jong-il

[trucrimegal]

I think you are right

Just my impression from seeing that interview where Jermaine said that (think it was Larry King) you could visibly see how awful he felt and that he really meant it. IMO

[GoldBug]

----------

yeah there was a link also to the other story about MJ dying in 2005.

does that make it right? Didn't you post that link?

[GoldBug]

Just my impression from seeing that interview where Jermaine said that (think it was Larry King) you could visibly see how awful he felt and that he really meant it. IMO

I know exactly what you are talking about. I got the same impression

[Tokyo Rose]

And your source that he did not pay her in full?? I did not want to get into the "do you have a link? but you have made statments and when asked for a link have balked.


So I googled and have found no article that states he was in arrears to her.


I did find however what was the settlement and she got more than money

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/divorce-papers-reveal-custody-arrangement-details-between-michael-jackson-debbie-rowe/25086

Access Hollywood has uncovered Michael and Debbie's divorce settlement filed on October 13, 1999. Debbie received a settlement of $8.5 million, an SUV and a Beverly Hills home. She got an additional $2 million for entering into a confidentiality agreement

I don't have to add IMO cause I have addressed an actual link, imagine that.

You guys know that give me a link and you didn't post a link and you didn't add IMO makes you look foolish. Like children in the playground..it's my ball no it's my ball Geesh grow up.

Ok now I have vented Now thrash me.:ohmy:


I found court papers and yours are similar, but no SUV.

I also didn't see anything about an extra 2 million. I posted about this and will supply a link when I can. These are court documents from when she took him back to court. She didn't receive 8.5 million in a lump sum.

jmo

[trucrimegal]

I know exactly what you are talking about. I got the same impression

I always felt like Michael, Jermaine and Janet were the closest. It seemed that Jermaine and Janet understood him better than the rest of the family.

[Calla]

How many times do you think a woman should be able to sell her kids?

[MoonHarvest]

I looked up the article Dr. Chopra references and it is in the February issue but it costs $18.00 to read so ...... :ohmy:

http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/cgi/content/full/71/2/243


“He did complain about the stresses of his childhood and the verbal and at times physical abuse, and there’s a paper in this year’s February issue of “Psychosomatic Medicine” that linked accumulated childhood stress with autoimmune disorders, including lupus, which he had, and vitiligo, which he had. He had huge patches of discoloration. He had a very poor image of his body. And he had a lot of shame about it, a lot of loathing about it. And his compulsion with cosmetic surgery is part of the self-mutilation that occurs as a result of this body image. He became an isolationist. He hid from people. And the more he hid, the more cruel the media frenzy about his hiding and his covering up, You know, he used to wear clothes to cover up his disfiguration. That really actually hurt him a lot,” Chopra said.

“He was a delicate soul in a cruel world,” he added.

http://stateandlake.net/ado/2009/06/30/deepak-chopra-on-autoimmune-illnesses-and-michael-jackson/

That says it all to me~by a man I respect and admire, ALMOST an idol to me. :-) lol

And yes, that is exactly what I've felt: childhood stress=autoimmune disorders. A body, ESPECIALLY a young body/mind/spirit can only take so much.

Thanks a whole bunch.

[GoldBug]

I always felt like Michael, Jermaine and Janet were the closest. It seemed that Jermaine and Janet understood him better than the rest of the family.

Aren't those the two that always defended him?

[trucrimegal]

Aren't those the two that always defended him?

I believe you're right. I think they also knew he needed help in a BIG way and probably got the closest to talking to him about his addiction -- but even as close as they all three were, that wasn't going to stop Michael, he was already too far gone with the addiction.

[MoonHarvest]

I looked up the article Dr. Chopra references and it is in the February issue but it costs $18.00 to read so ...... :ohmy:

http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/cgi/content/full/71/2/243


“He did complain about the stresses of his childhood and the verbal and at times physical abuse, and there’s a paper in this year’s February issue of “Psychosomatic Medicine” that linked accumulated childhood stress with autoimmune disorders, including lupus, which he had, and vitiligo, which he had. He had huge patches of discoloration. He had a very poor image of his body. And he had a lot of shame about it, a lot of loathing about it. And his compulsion with cosmetic surgery is part of the self-mutilation that occurs as a result of this body image. He became an isolationist. He hid from people. And the more he hid, the more cruel the media frenzy about his hiding and his covering up, You know, he used to wear clothes to cover up his disfiguration. That really actually hurt him a lot,” Chopra said.

“He was a delicate soul in a cruel world,” he added.

http://stateandlake.net/ado/2009/06/30/deepak-chopra-on-autoimmune-illnesses-and-michael-jackson/

Can you imagine, which would explain why he would be leery of intimate relationships.:sad:

[Tokyo Rose]

She was responding to Tokyo Rose who said the press backed off Michael after his trial

Ya, he left the country. LOL

jmo

[MoonHarvest]

“He was a delicate soul in a cruel world,” he added.


The world will eat up, chew till the last drop of blood and beyond, if given the opportunity. Just look around you~even here on these boards.

Later~going to watch a movie.

[Calla]

Can you imagine, which would explain why he would be leery of intimate relationships.:sad:

I totally see and understand it.

I succumbed but I remember the shock when I told my husband..the one thing I swore never to do was love someone. I was only able to love based on how much I was loved first.

I know I grew up with belts, switches etc..definitely abuse in today's society. I learned to be perfect at everything I attempted. so stressful ( & I do have autoimmune def. illnesses)
I also learned there were consequences for my behavior.

I think MJ learned that too, then ended up in a profession that told him the opposite...there were no longer any consequences.

[CinderL.]

What does she consider "intimate" ?

That could mean a lot of things.

I do recall other famous people saying they had not had sexual relations when in my opinion they did. LOL

:lol: OK that was funny.

[CinderL.]

Didn't you post that link? I posted that link once. :laugh:

[GoldBug]

Ya, he left the country. LOL

jmo

There's no press outside the country?

[flipflop]

I totally see and understand it.

I succumbed but I remember the shock when I told my husband..the one thing I swore never to do was love someone. I was only able to love based on how much I was loved first.

I know I grew up with belts, switches etc..definitely abuse in today's society. I learned to be perfect at everything I attempted. so stressful ( & I do have autoimmune def. illnesses)
I also learned there were consequences for my behavior.

I think MJ learned that too, then ended up in a profession that told him the opposite...there were no longer any consequences.


I don't think adults realize the effects their actions can have on kids sometimes...even when they love them with all their heart and think at the time what they're doing is best for the child. I wonder how wearing those masks might affect MJ's kids. I know he loved them and I'm aware of his reason for making them wear them but I wonder if the kids liked it.

[CinderL.]

Did anyone watch the tribute to MJ. in Gary, Id. on LKL. I am watching it now. Interesting. Joe so far has kept his mouth shut. :ohmy:

[GoldBug]

I believe you're right. I think they also knew he needed help in a BIG way and probably got the closest to talking to him about his addiction -- but even as close as they all three were, that wasn't going to stop Michael, he was already too far gone with the addiction.

Very sad, you can tell there was alot of love between them. You can see that same love in his 3 children

Well good night, nice chatting with you

[GoldBug]

Did anyone watch the tribute to MJ. in Gary, Id. on LKL. I am watching it now. Interesting. Joe so far has kept his mouth shut. :ohmy:Jessie Jackson is there

[CinderL.]

Jessie Jackson is there

Oh boy. ....

[CinderL.]

------------

Thanks, Calla. glad i'm not the only one.

I am not buying that one, because I don't think anyone could look as strange as MJ. I do think he had some work done recently that made him look more like his old self. But, not in London. IMO

[GoldBug]

----------

I read that last nite. Do i believe it? absolutely not.
Just because someone posts a link, it doesnt make it true.

Well you got your link and I see you say you read it last night, so why did you ask for it again. Now where is your link saying that story was fake? You must have a link since you did not say IMO

[GoldBug]

I am not buying that one, because I don't think anyone could look as strange as MJ. I do think he had some work done recently that made him look more like his old self. But, not in London. IMO

I agree, it did look like he had some work done. IMO he looked better. But you can clearly see it was Michael. Mannerisms and voice. If you look real close at one of the pics from that conference you can clearly see a scare on his nose. Look at a pic from a few years before that and you see the same scar.

Now I am off to bed for real this time.LOL
Enjoy watching Jessie and Joe. LOL

[MoonHarvest]

I totally see and understand it.

I succumbed but I remember the shock when I told my husband..the one thing I swore never to do was love someone. I was only able to love based on how much I was loved first.

I know I grew up with belts, switches etc..definitely abuse in today's society. I learned to be perfect at everything I attempted. so stressful ( & I do have autoimmune def. illnesses)
I also learned there were consequences for my behavior.

I think MJ learned that too, then ended up in a profession that told him the opposite...there were no longer any consequences.

I put my movie on pause .. and my husband said "what happened to the movie?" :lol: I thought "don't ask.":rolleyes:

Okay, I haven't much time but imo: when people say buck up, get over it and move on, that's judgment imo. And expecting someone to do what they aren't able to do at that time and place. Everyone is able to learn, see, deal, move on, get out of their own way when they can. Be it by ability, another example (hard to see and do when you stay alone and sequestered.) I believe no one wants to really be a mess/be in a mes. all Moo.

So, do not judge too harshly unless you have walked in that person's shoes. Poor guy his body hurt. Lupus is no joke.

Are you judging as you may have been judged?

Going back to the movie~ MH

[Hanalei]

And the reason he is dead is not my fault it's his and the doctors that give him the drugs.IMO

All you and others want to talk about is bashing a dead man.

[Hanalei]

Here is your link

http://www.thedeadbolt.com/news/111369/rowesuingjackson.php

Can you lead me in the right direction for a credible source that DR did not receive her money? I have read many links that state the exact opposite. In fact I have read where she got money several times, along with housing, monthly allowance, and kept going back for more.

Heck- anyone in their right mind would eventually cut someone like this off at some point. Never enough for her!

I'm not being snarky at all, I am looking for the truth about her not receiving what she claims is owed to her. PLUS,,,,, I doubt we ever see the legal documents drawn up between her and Michael to justify his side of the story, and especially now that he is dead it is her word against someone who can't speak.

JMO

[Hanalei]

MJ owes more the $400 million that's a lot more then just not paying his bills and you are getting of topic we aren't here to discuss other people's money problems.


Did I make an excuse for him? Please point me to where I did. TIA
The other poster is making it sound like Michael is the only one in this world they does not pay his bills and spends more than he made

[Calla]

I put my movie on pause .. and my husband said "what happened to the movie?" :lol: I thought "don't ask.":rolleyes:

Okay, I haven't much time but imo: when people say buck up, get over it and move on, that's judgment imo. And expecting someone to do what they aren't able to do at that time and place. Everyone is able to learn, see, deal, move on, get out of their own way when they can. Be it by ability, another example (hard to see and do when you stay alone and sequestered.) I believe no one wants to really be a mess/be in a mes. all Moo.

So, do not judge too harshly unless you have walked in that person's shoes. Poor guy his body hurt. Lupus is no joke.

Are you judging as you may have been judged?

Going back to the movie~ MH

Are you asking me that?

I'm not judging anybody.
I just said I had autoimmune def. illnesses (yes,plural)
Just making the point, that when I was dying, no one believed I was sick, not drs. not even my own mother. Until I kept going one to another until they believed and diagnosed me.
Was not making a judgment or a joke.
I hurt everyday and sleep very little.
I said everyone has had the crap, move on, fight on, basically... because you are hard pressed to find anyone who really cares

[MoonHarvest]

Ya know of course, MJ is partly responsible but drug addicts cannot stop on their own. And short of trying to get them declared mentally ill - interventions through a court for an adult are extremely difficult.

Having said that -- I feel great compassion for MJ. He hurt his back in that Pepsi commercial and legitimately started taking painkillers which he became addicted to. He has vitiligo, lupus, low self-esteem, and has gone through severe stress in his life that I don't think many on this board or the general population have ever been close to experiencing.

Too bad he was surrounded by people who didn't give a damn about him -- just the $ he could pay them. Had intervention been done earlier it is possible he could have gotten psychological assistance as well as a way to manage his pain without abusing drugs. JMHO

I think what you say makes really good sense. it's too bad, cause I do believe he wanted to be better. I bet he did.

[Hanalei]

Ok this is just crazy IMO to think that MJ didn't know what he was doing would kill him and that's why he was doctor shopping and getting meds under other people's names!!! Doctors were turning him down and he had to go out of state to get these meds he knew what he was doing was wrong and dragged other people that he knew to cover his drug addiction. Making excuses for his behavior is as bad as his enablers! IMO



The problem here Lynda is that MJ did not really believe what SOME told him when other doctors were saying its fine. of course he believed the ones who said what he wanted to hear, but he is not a physician and this drug in this way for this reason is not something that he can be expected to know would kill him. He wasn't using it to get high so just ignored the dangers, to him ...it puts you to sleep in the hospital so since he had terrible insomnia then it makes sense to use it. I seriously doubt MJ fully understood the seriousness of needing all the equipment etc.

Unlike taking pills this was and only could be administered by another who had medical training. Not even something joe blow could administer to him.
There is a vast difference between knowingly taking something yourself for a reason you shouldn't - like a high - and someone else choosing to give you something lethal when you thought it was safe because they were an MD.

Overall i agree with you, most charges that are not straight out murder i often think are overblown especially in medical deaths, or cases where someone throws a punch at another and the person falls in such a way they die from hitting their head where they land...those are outrageous imo bc the prosecutors and cops themselves i am sure punched ppl in their lives and only be pure chance did it not happen to them.

malpractice suits are way to many...doctors make mistakes and sometimes people die but so long as it was not a gross error of the sort that even a layman would know not to do - like amputating a leg when you needed arm surgery - accidents happen.

This diprivan issue i feel strongly is completely different from either "regular" malpractice or negligence. The doctor on the tour in the 90's was a board qualified anaesthesiologist who brought all the equipment needed to "bring him down and wake him up" as safely as possible given it was not in a hospital or ethical to do so.

Murray on the other hand didn't even have the qualifications or bring the equipment needed. That is what makes it rise to manslaughter imo and there is no way MJ should be expected to know that he was not doing even the bare minimum or that a cardiologist has almost no experience with administering the stuff

[MoonHarvest]

Are you asking me that?

I'm not judging anybody.
I just said I had autoimmune def. illnesses (yes,plural)
Just making the point, that when I was dying, no one believed I was sick, not drs. not even my own mother. Until I kept going one to another until they believed and diagnosed me.
Was not making a judgment or a joke.
I hurt everyday and sleep very little.
I said everyone has had the crap, move on, fight on, basically... because you are hard pressed to find anyone who really cares

The last part of your last sentence strikes me as sad. There are people who care, but often very hard to happen upon.

It's horrible not to be seen or heard Calla.

Be kind to self, as well as others.

I agree fight on . I think even MJ wanted to fight on.

[Hanalei]

What the heck does he need 75 cars for:scared: That doesn't make sense who the heck is driving those 75 cars?


Divorce Papers Reveal Custody Arrangement Details Between Michael Jackson & Debbie Rowe

FIRST PUBLISHED: July 10, 2009 4:02 PM EDT
LAST UPDATED: July 10, 2009 6:50 PM EDT

Access Hollywood has uncovered Michael and Debbie’s divorce settlement filed on October 13, 1999. Debbie received a settlement of $8.5 million, an SUV and a Beverly Hills home. She got an additional $2 million for entering into a confidentiality agreement.

The divorce agreement also revealed that Michael owned four properties including Neverland, a fleet of 75 vehicles including nine golf carts, two jet skis and five Rolls Royces, as well as 21 different bank accounts.

http://www.accesshollywood.com/divorce-papers-reveal-custody-arrangement-details-between-michael-jackson-and-debbie-rowe_article_20442

[Calla]

The last part of your last sentence strikes me as sad. There are people who care, but often very hard to happen upon.

It's horrible not to be seen or heard Calla.

Be kind to self, as well as others.

I agree fight on . I think even MJ wanted to fight on.

I'm kind to everyone. You will not find a single person who will tell you I wronged them. (maybe a brokenhearted 8th grade boyfriend)
I probably understand MJ better than I could explain

Should add, I guess, that I attempt to make every one I ever meet feel valued and worthy. It is my duty
Nite All

[MoonHarvest]

Just a hunch~ MJ the money machine, performer had to perform when opportunity called. However, it was very obvious that he was no where near ready if he was taking an anesthesia in order to sleep. Crap, what kind of DOCTOR can't see that and say no. One who sees $$$ I imagine.

Both MJ and the dope who gave him that dangerous medicine are responsible.

[GoldBug]

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show me where i asked for the link. I DID NOT. Its my opinion that its fake. but if u want to believe all the nonsense floating around, then so be it. some people really amaze me. lmaoBubbles
Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 478

Quote:

i asked u for a link that says its true........i dont see u posting the link.

I have not seen where u can back up your fact.

[MoonHarvest]

I'm kind to everyone. You will not find a single person who will tell you I wronged them. (maybe a brokenhearted 8th grade boyfriend)
I probably understand MJ better than I could explain

Should add, I guess, that I attempt to make every one I ever meet feel valued and worthy. It is my duty
Nite All

Nite Calla. Take care~

[Hanalei]

She is a child and had only one father how does she know he's the best father who else is she comparing him to? IMO I bet she thinks all kids gets to stay at home all day and play dress up and not have to go to school and go on planes and live in big houses.It's like his kids grew up in Disneyland. IMO I really do feel sorry for them losing the only parent the have known. I really hope someone steps up to take good care of them and not turn them into what their father had become.


That might matter if you were one of his children. His children adored him, and thought he was the best dad that you "could ever imagine".
Do you think his daughter was lying?

[Hanalei]

Now this is something we can agree on:laugh:


I understand that. But he's on TV saying he's going to turn the children into performers .......... he really just needs to shut up and someone needs to reign him in!

[ScoobyDoo]

MJ owes more the $400 million that's a lot more then just not paying his bills and you are getting of topic we aren't here to discuss other people's money problems.

I'm fairly confident that his assets far exceed his debts. All the debtors will be paid, and there will still be a very rich estate for his children, and the charities.

[ScoobyDoo]

I don't even think MJ kids were ever punished if they did something wrong. I can't see MJ doing that since he hated his father when he spanked and whipped him.IMO

Maybe he understood and was aware that there are other methods of punishment besides being spanked and whipped. He said he would never lay a hand on his kids, and never put them through what his Dad put him through. I sense he was a loving father, and I have seen no indication that his children aren't anything but well centered.

[Callie]

I agree and I would feel the same way. As we have seen it's not easy to prosecute a celebrity. The mother of the third boy refused to be paid off and went to trial. I would think the publicity of the first and second boy would have warned any parents away, but I guess it didn't. jmo

Yeah, went to trial and LOST. Probably figured if there was a conviction she'd get bigger bucks.

[Callie]

Oh please. If he was so "addicted to boys" why the 10 year gap. Sorry these parents were all extortionists. The "little boy" NEVER told his mother. His mother went to a tabloid -- and it was also proven she lied and admitted it under cross during the trial. I truly believe you need to research the documentation on these so-called accusers. This boy even told police to stop putting words in his mouth and make him say things that never happened. :shrug:

Hi Athena, It's really a shame, but some of these people here are never gonna get it out of their heads that Michael was a child molester. I agree with your post 100%. Thank goodness some of us a wise enough to see through all the crap.

[Callie]

Most of us are familiar with the United States Constitution.
A Person is Innocent until proven otherwise.
Those who are labeling him really have other issues and are just using that as a scapegoat.
Who know? They could be jealous of his talent. They might not like the fact that he broke color barriers on MTV or had the biggest selling album in history.
It's obvious he loved children and tried to help them. Anything else is utterly ridiculous.

Hi Pattycake :seeya: Thank you, you said it well.

:beer:

[who_is_it]

Thanks Cinder. Doesn't make sense to me that they say they advanced MJ money to pay the Dr. though? Why would he need advanced payment if he was going to get $150,000 a month from AEG? He was there less than a month? JMO

ETA: Found this too - sounds to me like the contract was between AEG and the Dr:

Michael Jackson's doctor says concert promoter owes him $300,000 [Updated]
8:07 AM | June 28, 2009

Michael Jackson's personal doctor, who was interviewed Saturday by police detectives over the circumstances surrounding the pop star's death, is owed $300,000 from the concert promoter planning Jackson's comeback concerts, his attorney said today.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/michael-jacksons-doctor-say-concert-promoter-owes-him-300000.html

Yes, AEG paid for the doctor but they didn't want this doctor.

"Randy Phillips, AEG Live president and chief executive, said earlier Friday that it was Jackson who insisted that Dr. Conrad Murray, a financially troubled cardiologist who was with the entertainer when he collapsed Thursday, be put on the tour payroll.

"As a company, we would have preferred not having a physician on staff full-time because it would have been cheaper without the hotels and travel, but Michael was insistent that he be hired," Phillips said. "Michael said he had a rapport with him.""
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...th_2009_6.html

(link originally posted by R~O~S)

[who_is_it]

Normal life? I consider a normal life as a person who is accepting of others, not judging them and shows compassion when another human being is hurting. Maybe give a sandwich to a homeless person.
<snipped>



:thumbsup:

good post

[who_is_it]

MJ has been on his own since he was 19 if he wanted to have a normal life he could have walked away from the business and Joe had no control over him anymore. MJ choose to stay in the entertainment business.IMO

Huh? A man with these amazing talents should have walked away from entertainment business? Get real, please.

[legalmania]

And that's what killed him IMO he couldn't handle the pressure of fame.That's why he became an addict.

First of all we don't know if he was an addict it is just a rumor, so far. He began using medications because of his pain due to the burn on his head. Then being a dancer you incur a lot of pain. Dancers usually last until their late 20's or early 30's he danced way into his 40's. I believe Michael suffered from a lot of pain.

[who_is_it]

Very sad slide show with music and words of Michael Jackson:

"Here - with the help of his music, and archive images from the days of the Jackson Five to the present - he reflects on his own vulnerabilities".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8121209.stm

[legalmania]

Try dancing like this everyday for decades and tell me you won't be in pain.

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Who Is It (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/who_is_it)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[MoonFlwr]

Huh? A man with these amazing talents should have walked away from entertainment business? Get real, please.

Yeah, absolutely ridiculous suggestion, considering that was all he knew and had been weaned on that. And then of course, there was his talent....walk away from a developed/developing talent? Who would do that?!

As you said, "Get real please"!

[Cardinal]

Pretty arrogant to think those who believe differently than you are not basing their opinions on fact. I loved him as a performer - but I did see far too many facts to believe him innocent. I saw the trial, saw his defense, read all sides - my opinion is based not on any issue of mine, but on the facts.

My wish would be that people who believe him could refrain from bashing the children, especially refrain from bashing the children based on who their parents were. Most don't - but some do.

And pretty defensive to think I was talking about you. I said, that people will believe what they believe, but I wish they would base their opinions on facts rather than their own issues. To clarify - whether or not they agree with me.

[Cardinal]

How do you know MJ didn't judge others did you live with him? The only things you know about him is what has been printed about him. You make him out to sound like a saint he never did anything wrong MJ can't do wrong and if he does there will always be an excuse for it:rolleyes: At least I can admit my mistakes and don't hire people to clean up my messes.

And the only things you know about him are what has been printed about him. And it appears you limit your knowledge to what is printed in the tabloids.

I haven't seen anyone make MJ out to be saint. I have, however, seen many view him with compassion, understanding and respect for his contributions. It's certainly your right to lack those qualities.

[flipflop]

I found this odd, short interview with Joe Jackson. It is difficult to understand, though. Does anyone know if there is one with better quality?

Also, was this the entire interview?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JYFGoegh2c

[magnolia]

And the only things you know about him are what has been printed about him. And it appears you limit your knowledge to what is printed in the tabloids.

I haven't seen anyone make MJ out to be saint. I have, however, seen many view him with compassion, understanding and respect for his contributions. It's certainly your right to lack those qualities.

Bolding is mine...

Have you been reading here the last few days??? The god-like worship coupled with the justification and excusing of his mistakes shows some people view his as Saint Michael.

And I mean every mistake or human failing (even a small one). As soon as a poster says something that might indicate MJ wasn't perfect, his defenders rush in with their SODDI views. I'm wondering if they're admiring someone who didn't exist since they can't seem to accept MJ as he really was.

[trucrimegal]

Very sad, you can tell there was alot of love between them. You can see that same love in his 3 children

Well good night, nice chatting with you

Sorry saw this late...good chatting with you too. Hope to see you on later tonight...

[Cardinal]

Bolding is mine...

Have you been reading here the last few days??? The god-like worship coupled with the justification and excusing of his mistakes shows some people view his as Saint Michael.

And I mean every mistake or human failing (even a small one). As soon as a poster says something that might indicate MJ wasn't perfect, his defenders rush in with their SODDI views. I'm wondering if they're admiring someone who didn't exist since they can't seem to accept MJ as he really was.

I don't know how MJ really was, do you? I'm pretty sure he wasn't perfect, since I've never met anyone who is. But there is a huge gap between saying he wasn't perfect and making judgments about his skin color, his parenting skills, his use/abuse of prescription drugs, etc. based upon the few facts that are known.

Of course he made mistakes and had flaws. And it appears he was fiscally irresponsible, which I don't condone or excuse. But those mistakes and flaws don't, IMO, warrant the rampant level of judgment I've seen in many posts. Nor do they, IMO, negate his musical and charitable accomplishments.

[kellabeck]

Yeah, went to trial and LOST. Probably figured if there was a conviction she'd get bigger bucks.

I would like to point out that the accuser and his family NEVER sued or tried to get money from Jackson. In addition, they did not, contrary to predictions, try to cash in with interviews or book deals. They have remained private.

To me that mitigates against the defense of "extortion." It was very hard for a little boy to stand up to the power of vast treasure and fame. Juries often give celebrities a pass, sad to say.

I believed him and continue to believe him and all the other boys.

[magnolia]

I don't know how MJ really was, do you? I'm pretty sure he wasn't perfect, since I've never met anyone who is. But there is a huge gap between saying he wasn't perfect and making judgments about his skin color, his parenting skills, his use/abuse of prescription drugs, etc. based upon the few facts that are known.

Of course he made mistakes and had flaws. And it appears he was fiscally irresponsible, which I don't condone or excuse. But those mistakes and flaws don't, IMO, warrant the rampant level of judgment I've seen in many posts. Nor do they, IMO, negate his musical and charitable accomplishments.

His musical and charitable accomplishments should not elevate MJ to sainthood...and it has. Maybe not to you, but to others.

[Firehead11]

The family did not go after Jackson in a civil suit because they lost in a criminal trial. She kept private because she got caught in her lies and welfare fraud. But we all knew that she named her new baby Michael Jackson. Yep, I would name my new baby after someone who supposely molested my son. :bored:

[Pretty Leaf]

I just read backward so I don't know what page or post, but someone said that Joe had a press conference about the children going into the biz . and I think they are somewhat worried about that.

Joe is a blowhard, Mr. bigshot with a whip. He should be hanging his head in shame and not given airtime. The only reason he is given a mic is to see what other BS comes out, then people watch, then ratings go up.

He will never be an influence in the kids life. There are 2 many Jackson'sthat will circle the wagon before he gets 20 feet from them.

[jewel6]

Try dancing like this everyday for decades and tell me you won't be in pain.

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Who Is It (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/who_is_it)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

Also lupus can be a painful disease. I noticed where the found prednisone at his house. thats used for lupus. My friends daughter has lupus and shes 20 her joints are awful. she takes pain meds. jmo

[magnolia]

The family did not go after Jackson in a civil suit because they lost in a criminal trial. She kept private because she got caught in her lies and welfare fraud. But we all knew that she named her new baby Michael Jackson. Yep, I would name my new baby after someone who supposely molested my son. :bored:


Where did you read that? I'd like to read it myself.

[magnolia]

Your use of Saint Michael, etc. makes me think you have a strange idea of Sainthood. MJ is dead, we can talk about the pros and cons of his life as we saw them, but his final judgment is not up to us. I think it is just as easy to see the good in anyone as it is to dig for the negative especially after they have passed.
IMO

I'm not the one who is characterizing MJ as a saint, so I think I have a good handle on the definition. As far as his final judgment, yep not up to me. And just because he's passed away, it doesn't change who he was (the good and the not so good).

[kellabeck]

The family did not go after Jackson in a civil suit because they lost in a criminal trial. She kept private because she got caught in her lies and welfare fraud. But we all knew that she named her new baby Michael Jackson. Yep, I would name my new baby after someone who supposely molested my son. :bored:

Do you have a link for that?