Michael Jackson ~ Friday 7/10 [Archive] - Page 3

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07-10-2009, 08:09 PM

I don't think he was a saint, either. I think he was an amazingly talented musician and performer, who changed the face of pop music forever. I give him full credit for that. He was also an amazingly generous contributor to charitable causes. "We Are The World" brought a new consciousness to a tremendous number of people.

As for the rest, people will think what they think. So be it. But I wish they would at least base their opinions on fact rather than their own issues.

:seeya: Goodnight.Pretty arrogant to think those who believe differently than you are not basing their opinions on fact. I loved him as a performer - but I did see far too many facts to believe him innocent. I saw the trial, saw his defense, read all sides - my opinion is based not on any issue of mine, but on the facts.

My wish would be that people who believe him could refrain from bashing the children, especially refrain from bashing the children based on who their parents were. Most don't - but some do.

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 08:10 PM

Actually surprised. Rebbie recorded "Centipede" during the disco days and was one of the most popular played at the clubs. LOL

okay well are you ready for this...........
I don't even know the song Cetipede, I must have been living under a rock hey?

I think I will youtube and see if I somewhat recognize the tune. lol

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 08:11 PM

Gee Linda, this time ITA with you. Honor Jackson for his music and showmanship, but not the other. I don't consider him a humanitarian when he stiffed so many people that he owed money. Many of these people were small business or service people. Nanny Grace said she hadn't been paid for months. Jackson gave money for the glory. IMO

Stiffed so many he owed? MJ knew he would never be broke that is why he kept on getting financial help because the investors knew it too.

His Beatles catalog alone is worth 2 Billion.

He will leave no one unpaid and he will still leave a vast fortune to his mom, children and charities.

imo

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 08:12 PM

Did someone post earlier the police were going to question the young man who was the victim in the Jackson trial? I thought I saw something about that earlier.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 08:12 PM

Pretty arrogant to think those who believe differently than you are not basing their opinions on fact. I loved him as a performer - but I did see far too many facts to believe him innocent. I saw the trial, saw his defense, read all sides - my opinion is based not on any issue of mine, but on the facts.

My wish would be that people who believe him could refrain from bashing the children, especially refrain from bashing the children based on who their parents were.Those "facts" proved what? Not Guilty

The part of your post I agree with is the part I made bold

Mnchkin426

07-10-2009, 08:13 PM

IMO it seems that when posters make a definitive statement then stick a jmo, imo, mo somewhere on the page (often minimized), they are hoping to convince people that what they are saying is a proven fact. Whether or not this is intentional, it is a way to spread rumors. If what you are saying is just your opinion, PLEASE be upfront about it. Makes for a better discussion and might prevent misunderstandings. This is not directed at anyone in particular. Just a suggestion. Once again, this is JUST MY OPINION.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 08:14 PM

how did you determine that MJ's kids didn't have friends of their own?

Says it right in the article

http://www.theinsider.com/news_event/927816_Michael_Jackson_s_children

magnolia

07-10-2009, 08:15 PM

Stiffed so many he owed? MJ knew he would never be broke that is why he kept on getting financial help because the investors knew it too.

His Beatles catalog alone is worth 2 Billion.

He will leave no one unpaid and he will still leave a vast fortune to his mom, children and charities.

imo

What??? MJ may have know HE wasn't going to be broke, but what about the people he owed??? (I've recently read he still owed the girl from "Thriller" some money.) What does the Beatles music have to do with owing OTHERS? That was his, not others.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 08:15 PM

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 08:16 PM

Stiffed so many he owed? MJ knew he would never be broke that is why he kept on getting financial help because the investors knew it too.

His Beatles catalog alone is worth 2 Billion.

He will leave no one unpaid and he will still leave a vast fortune to his mom, children and charities.

imo

Yea... he is making more money dead than alive right now. His creditors will be paid off, and his estate will grow in order to take care of his Mother and children. Also- I keep in mind that no additional money is being spent with him dead so that alone will add up as additional liquid that is being saved vs spent.

IMO

:) nice to see you again GB

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 08:16 PM

no, I'm not two people.

You certainly are intelligent enough to be two people though.

I so enjoy reading your post.

Thank you.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 08:17 PM

Says it right in the article

http://www.theinsider.com/news_event/927816_Michael_Jackson_s_children

LOL LOL LOL, did you read the end of the article that you posted? That information was not from a news worthy source

DISCLAIMER: This posting was submitted by a user of the site not from The Insider editorial staff. All users have acknowledged and agreed that the submission of their story and its contents is in compliance with our Terms of Use.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 08:18 PM

I actually saw a documentary about that. The whole time my mouth was hanging open. It showed everything. How they are made. How to clean them when they get to filled up. How people feel about them. They dress them and comb their hair and everything. These were very expensive versions of mannequins that were anatomically correct and the skin is realistic. People can have anything made.

JMO

Ewwwwwwww. :w00t:

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 08:18 PM

I don't see him as a healer at all they guy couldn't even take care of his own health. IMO

Bolding is mine...

Because he's being held up as a symbol of purity, without fault, an idol, a healer of the world, and almost god-like. He had no hand in his own demise and he was a perpetual victim. EVERYTHING is explained away; those of us who are not pure at heart don't understand his goodness and innocence.

All of the above it just a little hard to swallow sometimes and it's repeated and repeated. (Just as often as the negative is repeated.)

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 08:20 PM

Anyone that makes excuses for MJ are just enablers no wonder he went on for yrs with drug issues.IMO

Bolding is mine...

Because he's being held up as a symbol of purity, without fault, an idol, a healer of the world, and almost god-like. He had no hand in his own demise and he was a perpetual victim. EVERYTHING is explained away; those of us who are not pure at heart don't understand his goodness and innocence.

All of the above it just a little hard to swallow sometimes and it's repeated and repeated. (Just as often as the negative is repeated.)

Ice Cycle

07-10-2009, 08:20 PM

What??? MJ may have know HE wasn't going to be broke, but what about the people he owed??? (I've recently read he still owed the girl from "Thriller" some money.) What does the Beatles music have to do with owing OTHERS? That was his, not others.

Take a look and I believe this for many reasons but for one I worked at BA when he owed them and it did not appear the added interest that he paid was a problem. Not saying it was right but he surly was being advised by his own financial advisor's.

http://entrepreneur-profiles.suite101.com/article.cfm/why_michael_jackson_could_never_be_broke

Jackson's half ownership in ATV/Sony which owns the Beatles catalog estimated to be worth as much as $2 billion is held in a trust that shields it from his creditors.

(http://entrepreneur-profiles.suite101.com/article.cfm/why_michael_jackson_could_never_be_broke)

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 08:21 PM

IMO You are in denial if you don't think there are people that do funny stuff to blow up dolls and mannequins.Where have you been?

I am simply amazed how some seem to be so fixated on sex, sex, sex.

This didn't look like blow up dolls to me.

This look like dolls that could be placed in chairs at a table where the child or children could pretend that Charlie Chaplin or Shirley Temple was dining with them at their tea party.

But I guess one seeks what they want to find.

imo

legalmania

07-10-2009, 08:22 PM

okay well are you ready for this...........
I don't even know the song Cetipede, I must have been living under a rock hey?

I think I will youtube and see if I somewhat recognize the tune. lol

I found a Cetipede by a Rebbie Jackson is that who we are talking about? Is it a guy or a girl?

Mnchkin426

07-10-2009, 08:22 PM

Says it right in the article

http://www.theinsider.com/news_event/927816_Michael_Jackson_s_children

And just who wrote this article? Did you notice the disclaimer at the bottom of the page? I don't think it is very credible. JMO

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 08:22 PM

I don't see how this would be murder when MJ allowed the drugs to be given to him.IMO

This is being followed on CNN/Wolf Blistzer right now..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jul/10/michael-jackson-death

Michael Jackson death: Murder not ruled out, says LA police chiefPolice chief says that findings from toxicology tests will determine whether Jackson's death becomes a criminal case

LMS

Postergeist

07-10-2009, 08:24 PM

All I am hearing now is what a drug addict he was. Seems that is the big topic about him now. He asked any and everyone he could to help him get them, he did it around his children. I cannot , for the life of me, idolize a drug addict. I was never a big fan, and what I am now hearing on the news programs does nothing to improve that.

NavyMom- my dad just told me yesterday there is talk of the Post Office issuing a stamp in MJ's honor, and said that usually the person has to be deceased 5 yrs. or more to have a stamp made- he also mentioned the talk of MJ's Rx usage.

I then reminded him of the stamps made in honor of Elvis and Marilyn Monroe and at the time both my parents were against the stamps due to the info that came out about both of their issues with addictions/misuse of Rx drugs.

I can understand your feelings on this (I tend to be a stickler on those that tout the praises of famous adulterers) imo

magnolia

07-10-2009, 08:24 PM

Take a look and I believe this for many reasons but for one I worked at BA when he owed them and it did not appear the added interest that he paid was a problem. Not saying it was right but he surly was being advised by his own financial advisor's.

http://entrepreneur-profiles.suite101.com/article.cfm/why_michael_jackson_could_never_be_broke

Jackson's half ownership in ATV/Sony which owns the Beatles catalog estimated to be worth as much as $2 billion is held in a trust that shields it from his creditors.

(http://entrepreneur-profiles.suite101.com/article.cfm/why_michael_jackson_could_never_be_broke)

What??? Just because MJ had disposable income doesn't help the people he owed. That's what I was trying to communicate.

Mnchkin426

07-10-2009, 08:24 PM

I did. I always do. I'm being accused of something I didn't do by a poster here. imo It even says in my signature my posts are moo.

Maybe try capital letters....more visible. LOL JMO

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 08:24 PM

And 2 of the jury members wished they would have not voted not guilty. And don't say they have book deals because no books were ever published.

Maybe because he was. He was found not guilty by the people of the US and the very few minority on here wish to slander his name. Well, sorry you don't like it, but you are wrong, as has been proved by the court of law. So, you must live with that and move on....

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 08:27 PM

I found a Cetipede by a Rebbie Jackson is that who we are talking about? Is it a guy or a girl?

Rebbie is the oldest sister. (( I think ))

legalmania

07-10-2009, 08:28 PM

Great point. :smile:

O.K no more Congressional medals of honor and no more nobel prizes because it takes up way to much time, sorry to all the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan you must not get wounded or killed because no more time should be spent handing out purple hearts. All the scientist no more nobel prizes.

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 08:29 PM

I am simply amazed how some seem to be so fixated on sex, sex, sex.

This didn't look like blow up dolls to me.

This look like dolls that could be placed in chairs at a table where the child or children could pretend that Charlie Chaplin or Shirley Temple was dining with them at their tea party.

But I guess one seeks what they want to find.

imo

You should give little warnings when you post like this.. lol
It cracked me up, and the visual was all too clear. :)

legalmania

07-10-2009, 08:29 PM

Rebbie is the oldest sister. (( I think ))

Well is this the song?

----------------
Now playing: Rebbie Jackson - Centipede (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/rebbie_jackson/track/centipede)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 08:30 PM

Yea... he is making more money dead than alive right now. His creditors will be paid off, and his estate will grow in order to take care of his Mother and children. Also- I keep in mind that no additional money is being spent with him dead so that alone will add up as additional liquid that is being saved vs spent.

IMO

:) nice to see you again GB

Nice to see you, Serenity.

Since June 25, his music has been in the top 5. His estate is making money galore! Millions coming in daily. When this is over with he will not owe a soul and have plenty of money in the estate. This estate will take years because of that very reason. And if the Administrators decides to sell any of his memorabilia that too will go for top dollar. The advantage of it being MJ is he has so many ardent fans all across the world that will be scrambling to bid on anything that belonged to him.

The only way the estate is going is up!

imo

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 08:31 PM

Yeah only because he thought the leader would let the women go because he might be a MJ fan....what an ego! IMO

At least he was trying to help them.

Ice Cycle

07-10-2009, 08:32 PM

What??? Just because MJ had disposable income doesn't help the people he owed. That's what I was trying to communicate.

And what I was trying to communicate is that they could be paid off in a snap and it would still leave him a Millionaire (without the sales from his death) plus that their was alot of interest paid on those loans and you can be sure late fees if late.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 08:32 PM

I read Joe said that too!

For one Joe slipped up and said the kids were having a fine time playing with the other grandkids and he actually said it was the first time they got to play with other kids. No link. jmo

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 08:33 PM

And there is no soild proof that he didn't. IMO

Where is the solid proof he molested children?

You actually think he was sexually aroused by children?

legalmania

07-10-2009, 08:34 PM

NavyMom- my dad just told me yesterday there is talk of the Post Office issuing a stamp in MJ's honor, and said that usually the person has to be deceased 5 yrs. or more to have a stamp made- he also mentioned the talk of MJ's Rx usage.

I then reminded him of the stamps made in honor of Elvis and Marilyn Monroe and at the time both my parents were against the stamps due to the info that came out about both of their issues with addictions/misuse of Rx drugs.

I can understand your feelings on this (I tend to be a stickler on those that tout the praises of famous adulterers) imo

We shouldn't ridicule those who have a drug addiction especially the ones who are in pain. There is no doubt in my mind Michael was in pain. He was probably told many times to stop dancing or he would not be able to walk. Most dancers stop in their late 20's to early 30's. A second chance is what it takes.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 08:38 PM

So I guess if your child was molested and the jury found that person not guilty then that must be ok?

I have not seen one link posted by you that shows proof that MJ was a child molester.
The only proof I have seen was the jury finding him not guilty

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 08:38 PM

Well is this the song?

----------------
Now playing: Rebbie Jackson - Centipede (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/rebbie_jackson/track/centipede)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

It looks like it... but I would have to ask Athena... LOL

She is really pretty, and she had a great imagination for the video.
I think Michael also used a Tiger like that in one of his videos.
This entire family has so much talent... truly amazing !

magnolia

07-10-2009, 08:39 PM

Centipede was a looooong time ago....

I'm old so I know that. LOL

Yes, it was in the PAST!

(Sorry I couldn't resist, lol.)

legalmania

07-10-2009, 08:41 PM

It looks like it... but I would have to ask Athena... LOL

She is really pretty, and she had a great imagination for the video.
I think Michael also used a Tiger like that in one of his videos.
This entire family has so much talent... truly amazing !

It sounds like late 70's early 80's music. I don't remember it though.

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 08:42 PM

This is what I personally would like to see happen since DR and KJ are talking. I think KJ should be granted custody; keep Grace on; and give DR visitation where the kids can get to know her. When KJ passes ... the kids go to DR. JMHO

"We are pleased that the child custody hearing has been continued over until July 20th to further our progress and allow us to privately and amicably resolve this most important matter in a dignified manner for the benefit of the children first and all involved," Katherine's attorney, L. Londell McMillan, said in a statement."

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b133630_jackson_custody_hearing_postponed_again.ht ml

That certainly would be best for these adorable children. I just hope the Jacksons aren't having to come up with a large amount of money to DR to see that the right thing is done.

imo

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 08:42 PM

I don't see how this would be murder when MJ allowed the drugs to be given to him.IMO

Manslaughter is the most they could probably get, IMO.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 08:43 PM

I had a cousin that was molested by her own dad until she was 17. She gained weight (200lbs) to make herself unattractive but it didn't work. Once her dad died she finally felt safe to tell me that her dad molested her. My aunt was really religious and didn't like sex so the father started molesting his own daughter and my cousin told her mom once and she didn't believe her. I'm glad my uncle is died and I hope it was painful death. So this is why I'm not so quick to believe that MJ isn't a molester because his behavior and the need to be around children is a major red flag for me.

I have not seen one link posted by you that shows proof that MJ was a child molester.
The only proof I have seen was the jury finding him not guilty

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 08:46 PM

O.K no more Congressional medals of honor and no more nobel prizes because it takes up way to much time, sorry to all the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan you must not get wounded or killed because no more time should be spent handing out purple hearts. All the scientist no more nobel prizes.

I would hardly compare what MJ has done, to a Medal of Honor recipient, or a nobel prize winner. But, that is just MO.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 08:47 PM

It would not be okay, but personally then I would go after the person in civil court where the burden of proof is much lower.

For some reason the Arviso family didn't do that.

Maybe MJ paid them off to stay out of civil court. I'm sure MJ didn't want to go to civil court. Bad publicity and a high chance of losing. jmo

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 08:48 PM

Nice to see you, Serenity.

Since June 25, his music has been in the top 5. His estate is making money galore! Millions coming in daily. When this is over with he will not owe a soul and have plenty of money in the estate. This estate will take years because of that very reason. And if the Administrators decides to sell any of his memorabilia that too will go for top dollar. The advantage of it being MJ is he has so many ardent fans all across the world that will be scrambling to bid on anything that belonged to him.

The only way the estate is going is up!

imo

Yea and double Yea....

I posted a link earlier where I think it was China making a mini Neverland in honor of the Pop King for all of his fans over there.

He had his own demons to deal with personally, as we all do, only difference is our demons and behavior is not publicly known. AT least for me it is not.

Gee I love to dance and sing and can't do either, so I can't imagine having a gift to offer to this world like MJ did. This entire family was gifted with talent, no doubt!

ps- MJ may have left this earth owing money but they will all get paid-- not many in America right now can do or say the same with this economy right now. BK is at the all time high, foreclosures, unemployment... and if I die today, well I have a reserve that will cover debt but not my funeral. :(

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 08:49 PM

Sounds like a good show for Maury Povich!

There is so much speculation going around that I think it would be easier to list who could not possibly be the biological father of any of MJ's kids. :wink:

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 08:49 PM

Maybe MJ paid them off to stay out of civil court. I'm sure MJ didn't want to go to civil court. Bad publicity and a high chance of losing. jmo

You must be kidding!!! The press would have been all over that IF he paid them off

legalmania

07-10-2009, 08:50 PM

I would hardly compare what MJ has done, to a Medal of Honor recipient, or a nobel prize winner. But, that is just MO.

Oh o.k so feeding hungry children is not allowed or building hospitals for the poor. Helping aids patients no way. Is that what your saying?

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 08:50 PM

That would be it. You still don't at least remember the song? If not, then I'd have to agree you must have been living under a rock. :laugh:

No I don't remember the song.... LOL
I am younger than Michael Jackson, does that count?

Postergeist

07-10-2009, 08:50 PM

We shouldn't ridicule those who have a drug addiction especially the ones who are in pain. There is no doubt in my mind Michael was in pain. He was probably told many times to stop dancing or he would not be able to walk. Most dancers stop in their late 20's to early 30's. A second chance is what it takes.

I'm sorry, I haven't read back thru the thread, just was reading the past 2 pages posts so I haven't seen any ridiculing (and I hope you don't mean that I was ridiculing or that NavyMom was in the post I quoted).

Years ago I saw Guns 'n Roses in concert- after Axl's deplorable performance and then hearing of his alleged issues with heroin, my hubby and I decided that was the last concert of theirs we'd ever go to, as we didn't want our ticket money or any future CDs purchases to contribute to his habit (and I won't even say what was said about where on his body he was alleging shooting up).

I'm more than familiar with those that over-use Rx drugs and dr. shop and who they got to enable them.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 08:51 PM

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 08:51 PM

Exactly what did he do?

He didn't get to do anything because he died a couple weeks after he made the request to try and help

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 08:52 PM

You must be kidding!!! The press would have been all over that IF he paid them off

Not if it were done secretly. Remember this would have been after the criminal case was completed and the press had backed off. jmo

TunaMelt

07-10-2009, 08:52 PM

I would hardly compare what MJ has done, to a Medal of Honor recipient, or a nobel prize winner. But, that is just MO.

No, it's not "just" your Opinion. It's a good opinion, and I share it.

:mellow:

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 08:52 PM

disneyfreak

07-10-2009, 08:53 PM

I buy stamps with the American Flag on them! LOL! I might buy one with a president on it...but that would be it! IMO that's all that should be on a stamp!:laugh:
The only time I don't buy Freedom stamps is when the new Disney ones come out (big surprise there!)

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 08:53 PM

Not if it were done secretly. Remember this would have been after the criminal case was completed and the press had backed off. jmo

The press never backed off

legalmania

07-10-2009, 08:54 PM

I'm sorry, I haven't read back thru the thread, just was reading the past 2 pages posts so I haven't seen any ridiculing (and I hope you don't mean that I was ridiculing or that NavyMom was in the post I quoted).

Years ago I saw Guns 'n Roses in concert- after Axl's deplorable performance and then hearing of his alleged issues with heroin, my hubby and I decided that was the last concert of theirs we'd ever go to, as we didn't want our ticket money or any future CDs purchases to contribute to his habit (and I won't even say what was said about where on his body he was alleging shooting up).

I'm more than familiar with those that over-use Rx drugs and dr. shop and who they got to enable them.

Well I would hate to be the one who brings the bad news but they broke up. Steven Adler was the one with the problem and he was fired. Most of the group has now become clean and sober after getting a second chance.

Postergeist

07-10-2009, 08:55 PM

I buy stamps with the American Flag on them! LOL! I might buy one with a president on it...but that would be it! IMO that's all that should be on a stamp!:laugh:

lol- well I buy different kinds to save, as I consider them little tiny works of art, but I'm selective- they've made beautiful ones over the years and none of them you've been tempted to buy?

(and myself, I'd have to discern which president- all have clay feet but several had round heels!)

imo

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 08:55 PM

I think so too. It will be interesting to see what happens in the ANS case.

Florida re-opened the case to look at Manslaughter charges, but it's been a long time now and they have done nothing yet. They may be waiting until after the CA case is tried.
jmo

magnolia

07-10-2009, 08:55 PM

Yea and double Yea....

I posted a link earlier where I think it was China making a mini Neverland in honor of the Pop King for all of his fans over there.

He had his own demons to deal with personally, as we all do, only difference is our demons and behavior is not publicly known. AT least for me it is not.

Gee I love to dance and sing and can't do either, so I can't imagine having a gift to offer to this world like MJ did. This entire family was gifted with talent, no doubt!

ps- MJ may have left this earth owing money but they will all get paid-- not many in America right now can do or say the same with this economy right now. BK is at the all time high, foreclosures, unemployment... and if I die today, well I have a reserve that will cover debt but not my funeral. :(

Bolding is mine...

See this is what I'm talking about. Owing so many people moneyand not paying is not cool. This is what MJ did.

But his adoring public somehow make it okay. He WAS going to pay. It will all be taken care of. He's better than the rest...blah, blah, blah. Give me a break.

Now I don't really thinking that owing people money is SUCH a BIG deal, but come on people. He was not perfect and everything does not need to be justified or explained away.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 08:57 PM

The press never backed off

Sure they did. When the trial ended it was over. jmo

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 08:57 PM

Florida re-opened the case to look at Manslaughter charges, but it's been a long time now and they have done nothing yet. They may be waiting until after the CA case is tried.
jmo

Even Dr. Perper excused the "fake names" because she was a celebrity. I think he back peddled on that after CA. went after the Dr.'s. Not sure though.

legalmania

07-10-2009, 08:57 PM

The only time I don't buy Freedom stamps is when the new Disney ones come out (big surprise there!)

People still use stamps? If it can't be faxed or electronically filed, or e-mailed I'll pass.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 08:59 PM

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 09:01 PM

Oh o.k so feeding hungry children is not allowed or building hospitals for the poor. Helping aids patients no way. Is that what your saying? Yes, I am saying that. I don't, and won't compare him to a Medal of Honor recipient.

TunaMelt

07-10-2009, 09:01 PM

Oh o.k so feeding hungry children is not allowed or building hospitals for the poor. Helping aids patients no way. Is that what your saying?

It's a good thing.
Many wealthy people do it for many reasons. I'd say most do. Deductions are good things to have in a certain tax bracket.

I'm thinking of Paul Newman's immense financial contribution via his Newman's Own brand of food (100% goes to charity) combined with his and Robert Redford's "Hole in the Wall Gang" charity for children. These are long-standing foundations and the $ amount is huge.

So what Jackson gave or did: none of it sets him apart from other entertainers in any way.

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 09:01 PM

I buy stamps with the American Flag on them! LOL! I might buy one with a president on it...but that would be it! IMO that's all that should be on a stamp!:laugh:

I rarely buy stamps-- I do online banking and ecards and always have the family pick out what they like online for holidays, etc.
So last time I did purchase stamps I purchased the forever stamps that are pretty much generic looking.

I don't think postage stamps are a big deal, except for the collectors out there.

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 09:01 PM

Yes, and they seem to like the kinky, bizarre stuff. I'm not reading anymore of it tonight, makes me sick.
IMO

Well it sure makes my head spin around. lol

I just cant relate sitting there watching a show that shows how they make blow up dolls that have the "intricate parts"?:ohmy:

I just don't get it.

Everything just seems to instill a sexual vision immediately for some.

Heck last week on another site someone thought a little child who was bare chested had been molested simply because the little boy child had no shirt on in the snapshot.

Good grief. Does that mean kids are back to wearing swimsuits up to their necks and down to their knees because soooooooooo many think it must be something sexual if the chest isn't covered. Gee, even today my neighbor's little grandsons were jumping in the pool bare chested. I guess I should have shut my eyes or called the police on her because she was taking their pictures too.:sad:

What about the photographer that took all those beautiful photos of little babies and they had no clothes on but were posed in the cutest ways? I can remember when they were so popular and were given to parents that had just had their children.

imo

VC2

07-10-2009, 09:02 PM

agreed. I still think that after the Anna Nicole Indictments that the State of California is gonna go after someone for the Jackson death - provided of course toxicology shows that the drugs were responsible for the cardiac arrest.

I really think that someone is gonna go down.

blackbird, i think if it is the diprivan they might go for a higher charge than manslaughter as far as the doctor who administered it. From all reports he didn't even have the basic rescue equipment..even for a cardiologist, a defib let alone intubation equipment for respiratory arrest.

That is more than just negligence, it is knowingly using a substance that he is fully aware is lethal if not titrated, monitored and given in a hospital setting (or a minimum a clinical one) and even there can kill. The negligence was for administering it for a usage that no doctor in their right mind would do and certainly is not an approved treatment or even an off label treatment.

How he administered it, may be higher than manslaughter but the minimum would be voluntary manslaughter. He knew perfectly well that he was likely to kill MJ as did any doctor who gave that particular medication outside of a clinical setting.

IMO

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:03 PM

According to Chopra MJ asked if he thought the guy was a fan of his.

Nothing to back it up.

And it doesn't mean he actually would have done anything, anyway.

Too speculative.

imo
Chopra did not get a response back before Michaels death

legalmania

07-10-2009, 09:04 PM

It's a good thing.
Many wealthy people do it for many reasons. I'd say most do. Deductions are good things to have in a certain tax bracket.

I'm thinking of Paul Newman's immense financial contribution via his Newman's Own brand of food (100% goes to charity) combined with his and Robert Redford's "Hole in the Wall Gang" charity for children. These are long-standing foundations and the donations from the two actors is quite big.

So what Jackson gave or did: none of it sets him apart from other entertainers in any way.

The list is about a page long, It's been posted just about a couple of pages ago go back if you want. It was enough to break the world book of records.

bkwits

07-10-2009, 09:04 PM

Stiffed so many he owed? MJ knew he would never be broke that is why he kept on getting financial help because the investors knew it too.

His Beatles catalog alone is worth 2 Billion.

He will leave no one unpaid and he will still leave a vast fortune to his mom, children and charities.

imo

They MAY get paid, but it will be by his estate. Not my Michael Jackson himself. There are many, many instances cited itn various media that he did not pay his bills. If you have not read this or heard it, then you are not keeping up.

IMO

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:04 PM

Even Dr. Perper excused the "fake names" because she was a celebrity. I think he back peddled on that after CA. went after the Dr.'s. Not sure though.

LOL yes he did on TV interviews. He looked like a fool. The problem was all the prescriptions were in Sterns name that were in her body when she died. Perper was an idiot. jmo

At least CA went after them and got them for the drug violations. Just couldn't get them for manslaughter because the death occurred in Florida.jmo

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:04 PM

Sure they did. When the trial ended it was over. jmo

No they didn't, they followed every move Michael made and reported it

Postergeist

07-10-2009, 09:05 PM

Well I would hate to be the one who brings the bad news but they broke up. Steven Adler was the one with the problem and he was fired. Most of the group has now become clean and sober after getting a second chance.

o/t

I said it was years ago- long before the band broke up- I also said it was Axl Rose's performance, it was not Steven's or the rest of the band that was such a azz on the stage - he of course isn't the first to perform being loaded, lots of country singers did too back in the day long before Axl was ever born- but I disagree with you saying that Steven Adler was the only one with a "problem" in that band.

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 09:05 PM

I rarely buy stamps-- I do online banking and ecards and always have the family pick out what they like online for holidays, etc.
So last time I did purchase stamps I purchased the forever stamps that are pretty much generic looking.

I don't think postage stamps are a big deal, except for the collectors out there.

The 1993 Elvis stamp still reins at number one on stamps sold.

I read that they have made it three years after death now and the USPS is hurting for money something awful. This sure would be a boost for them.

imo

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:07 PM

No they didn't, they followed every move Michael made and reported it

Link to how long they followed him around after the trial.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 09:08 PM

There was a phone in there and a bed all set up didn't look like a storage room to me it looked like a secret bedroom.

so it wasn't really a "secret" then, but used for storage.

from your link:

"But "Extra" has learned about something else that police may have found at Neverland-- a secret room hidden behind the star's walk-in closet. It is a place few have seen because in it are photographs of bare-chested children, babies, toys, games, and even an autographed picture of actor Macauley Culkin signed, "Don't leave me alone in the house."

Ice Cycle

07-10-2009, 09:09 PM

So your definition of a pedophile is someone that had to be convicted. What about the ones that are not one but are convicted does that make them a pedophile because the jury said so??? :rolleyes: Do you have a clue how many rapists and murders are running around that haven't been convicted so I guess that doesn't make them rapists and murders right?

I have stayed out of his past issues debate because that is a go nowhere subject and since it has done been decided by 12 jurors. I will say I agree that their are alot of murderers and rapist out there but just because someone points the finger and someone does not make it true, their are many extortionist out there that do play on wealthy people and especially on those those that non intentionally make theirself appear odd. But the last I will say on this because it is history and not something I choose to discuss.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 09:10 PM

Why would anyone have an alarm on a storage room? IMO I think it was on there to warn someone of someone coming in. And there was a bed setup in in there.

that does not make sense.

why have a "secret room" that signals an alarm, but no locks from the inside, only from the outside?

based on your description, it sounds more like a storage closet where things are kept then a "secret room".

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 09:10 PM

LOL yes he did on TV interviews. He looked like a fool. The problem was all the prescriptions were in Sterns name that were in her body when she died. Perper was an idiot. jmo

At least CA went after them and got them for the drug violations. Just couldn't get them for manslaughter because the death occurred in Florida.jmo We'll see what happens after Ca. It is going to be the case to watch, for future cases. IMO

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:12 PM

Link to how long they followed him around after the trial.

You don't need a link for that, just google his name and watch all the stories and photos of him from after the trial and all the way to his death.

Link me to the something that says the press backed off of Michael after the trial

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 09:12 PM

They MAY get paid, but it will be by his estate. Not my Michael Jackson himself. There are many, many instances cited itn various media that he did not pay his bills. If you have not read this or heard it, then you are not keeping up.

IMO

They will get paid because this was MJ who is making money galore.

He owes about 400,000 million. That will be paid. The financial analysts said they expect his estate to rise to a billion and that is not including the Beatles catalog which has been put into a Trust.

If it wasn't MJ they probably wouldn't get paid. They know because it is MJ they will be paid. That is why the billionaire investor was still negotiating with MJ. He knew either way he wasn't going to be broke. If the tour had happened he would have made millions from it.

And then the record sales would begin to flourish again just like it is doing now. And MJ has songs/videos in his vault not even marketed yet.

imo

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 09:13 PM

I think we will come to find out that Miko "I never saw anything" Brando is up to his eyeballs in obtaining drugs for Jackson.

IMO

I think you may be right. IMO too.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:13 PM

We'll see what happens after Ca. It is going to be the case to watch, for future cases. IMO

I'm following it on this board, but it has slowed down to nothing right now.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:14 PM

Why would anyone have an alarm on a storage room? IMO I think it was on there to warn someone of someone coming in. And there was a bed setup in in there.

If you had valuables in their like he did, I would have an alarm on it. He had his outfits from videos and concerts in there that were worth a fortune.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:15 PM

You don't need a link for that, just google his name and watch all the stories and photos of him from after the trial and all the way to his death.

Link me to the something that says the press backed off of Michael after the trial

No, I asked you for a link. You posted as a fact.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:15 PM

LMAO. Do you remember that 18 year old from Louisiana that filed a suit against MJ after the trial and it was dismissed because MJ had never been there? :rolleyes:

Yes, and the press was all over that. That is why I told Toyko to do a google search on Michael

magnolia

07-10-2009, 09:16 PM

LMAO. Do you remember that 18 year old from Louisiana that filed a suit against MJ after the trial and it was dismissed because MJ had never been there? :rolleyes:

Okay, I don't care that YOU are posted about the past; you are free to post whatever you want. Just remember this when you are admonishing others for doing the same.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:17 PM

They will get paid because this was MJ who is making money galore.

He owes about 400,000 million. That will be paid. The financial analysts said they expect his estate to rise to a billion and that is not including the Beatles catalog which has been put into a Trust.

If it wasn't MJ they probably wouldn't get paid. They know because it is MJ they will be paid. That is why the billionaire investor was still negotiating with MJ. He knew either way he wasn't going to be broke. If the tour had happened he would have made millions from it.

And then the record sales would begin to flourish again just like it is doing now. And MJ has songs/videos in his vault not even marketed yet.

imo

How long are people supposed to wait? He didn't pay bills when he was alive is the point. I don't get away with not paying my bills, do you? His rent wasn't even paid. jmo

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 09:18 PM

Why would anyone have an alarm on a storage room? IMO I think it was on there to warn someone of someone coming in. And there was a bed setup in in there.

In case they had valuables in it and someone tried to break in. Or if they are in their private suite asleep and have an intruder they will be alerted.

Many actors have secret storages, alarms and whistles, panic rooms.

This isn't just MJ.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 09:19 PM

What kind of safe room could it be with the locks on the outside how safe it that lol!

Sounds more like a "safe room" if it has a bed and phone in it

legalmania

07-10-2009, 09:19 PM

I would like to dedicate this to Michael we miss you.:seeya::rose: Goodnight.

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/man_in_the_mirror)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:20 PM

People like you are still doing it.

WHY o' WHY can you not leave a dead man to rest in peace?

Is your life really that boring, or filled with such turmoil that you have to create MORE turmoil for MJ even in his death in order to make your own life feel normal, or what?

Basic decency is to let the dead rest and you know something?

What you and a few others are doing here on this thread is FAR morally worse than anything MJ did his entire life.

What joy you are getting out of this goes beyond the term of sick.

Why oh Why are you yelling at me? Obviously your not even reading the thread. jmo

magnolia

07-10-2009, 09:21 PM

How long are people supposed to wait? He didn't pay bills when he was alive is the point. I don't get away with not paying my bills, do you? His rent wasn't even paid. jmo

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/entertainment/Thriller-Actress-In-Shock-Over-Michael-Jacksons-Death.html

The thriller girl filed suit against Jackson LAST month about money owed.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:23 PM

Yes, and the press was all over that. That is why I told Toyko to do a google search on Michael

No problem. You made a post you can't back. jmo

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 09:24 PM

How long are people supposed to wait? He didn't pay bills when he was alive is the point. I don't get away with not paying my bills, do you? His rent wasn't even paid. jmo

They usually have from 90 days to file the claim. But believe mr they will wait as long as it takes.

No, I pay my bills but if I didn't and I was going to make the amount of money he is going to make posthumously then I wouldn't worry about them being paid for they all will be.

Well it happens and he certainly isn't the only one. Ed McMahon was in a financial mess too and I doubt he had the funds after death to pay his creditors but MJ will.

imo

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 09:24 PM

I'm following it on this board, but it has slowed down to nothing right now.

I quit following it here, cause I got in trouble all the time. :ohmy: :laugh:

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:26 PM

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/entertainment/Thriller-Actress-In-Shock-Over-Michael-Jacksons-Death.html

The thriller girl filed suit against Jackson LAST month about money owed.

She's going to have to wait a lot longer now. Hope she can get her pay from the estate.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 09:26 PM

IMO I personally believe members in the MJ family knew MJ had a thing for boys and did nothing to stop him so what's to stop things happening to MJ children this family is so greedy that haven't even buried MJ yet because they need to know where the best place to bury him for the $$$$$.

and what difference does any of what you believe make now in the current MJ saga????

bkwits

07-10-2009, 09:26 PM

How long are people supposed to wait? He didn't pay bills when he was alive is the point. I don't get away with not paying my bills, do you? His rent wasn't even paid. jmo

Yes, and some may never get paid. What if some person who performed a service doesn't have documentation to show the executors? IMO, MJ was self-centered, narrisstic, and had other problems. Posters here go on and on about what a great humanitarian and great dad he was. He only seemed to care when he got the glory.

As for being a great dad, that remains to be seen. From the interview of Nancy Grace (the link should be posted here somewhere), the kids were dragged from pillar to post for several years. It was whoever MJ could mooch off of. How were they educated? How could they have had any kind of normal childhood, when they had to wear veils, and masks. They don't even have proper names. He had to burden them with his given name -- all three of them. He denies them a mother. I don't see a great father in that. IMO

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 09:27 PM

VC2

07-10-2009, 09:27 PM

Bolding is mine...

See this is what I'm talking about. Owing so many people moneyand not paying is not cool. This is what MJ did.

But his adoring public somehow make it okay. He WAS going to pay. It will all be taken care of. He's better than the rest...blah, blah, blah. Give me a break.

Now I don't really thinking that owing people money is SUCH a BIG deal, but come on people. He was not perfect and everything does not need to be justified or explained away.

well i do agree with you on this. MJ was financially irresponsible both in spending and paying on time as are many people.

Like you said, not such a big deal (admittedly he had the money to do it on a much larger scale than we can, he had more to spend) but i don't think most of us who defend him do think he is perfect. We think he had prescription drug abuse problems in his life, we realize he was human, and in fact was a troubled soul. The fact he was troubled is what makes me at least believe you cannot look at his love for kids or his different behaviors the same way we do a normal adult male.

He was not. He had a unique life that was so far from the norm most of us will never understand it. It messed him up emotionally, yet he his gift of music and dance, choreography and stardom made him even more vulnerable as a target of unscrupulous people.

No he was not perfect, imo he was always emotionally a child stuck somewhere around 10 years old with a desperate need to be loved, yet he was an adult in intelligence and business. Emotionally stuck as a child does not mean he could not parent well or care or handle his career but it certainly makes for an almost impossible dichotomy.

IMO

and imo not only did he never molest children but it was the furthest thing from his mind. Just like the 10 or 12 year old he saw love and caring and helping people with rose colored glasses...as adults we know some things are totally inappropriate for an adult to do, but i don't think MJ could ever understand why it was wrong or bad judgement to play with kids or all fall asleep on the same bed or trust only them. Because to him it was nothing more than love and trust and caring. Remember probably the only time he ever did feel secure was sleeping in a bed with all his brothers as a child. So when he says its "a loving thing to do" imo he is saying exactly what he felt as a child..not how an adult pedophile would say it.

IMO

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:28 PM

No problem. You made a post you can't back. jmo

What??? I said google his name and look at all the stories that pop up on Michael from after his trial until his death. Athena already posted one for you. You want me to post the millions that are on google?

You really can't back up your statement that the press left Michael alone after the trial

magnolia

07-10-2009, 09:29 PM

They usually have from 90 days to file the claim. But believe mr they will wait as long as it takes.

No, I pay my bills but if I didn't and I was going to make the amount of money he is going to make posthumously then I wouldn't worry about them being paid for they all will be.
Well it happens and he certainly isn't the only one. Ed McMahon was in a financial mess too and I doubt he had the funds after death to pay his creditors but MJ will.

imo

Oh, I'm sure that brings great comfort to the people who are due the moeny and trying to support themselves, feed their families, etc.:rolleyes:

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:29 PM

They usually have from 90 days to file the claim. But believe mr they will wait as long as it takes.

No, I pay my bills but if I didn't and I was going to make the amount of money he is going to make posthumously then I wouldn't worry about them being paid for they all will be.

Well it happens and he certainly isn't the only one. Ed McMahon was in a financial mess too and I doubt he had the funds after death to pay his creditors but MJ will.

imo

Why didn't he pay his bills on time? People he owed depended on the money too. jmo

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 09:30 PM

magnolia

07-10-2009, 09:30 PM

Some of the lawsuits pending are overinflated too. Remember the lawsuit Mark Schaeffel brought against MJ? The judge ordered MJ to pay $900,000 out of the $3Million he sued for and that was the largest suit he had. :shrug:

Also I had forgotten that MJ sued Granada Productions for the Bashir video and he gave the settlement to charity. I just read it not to long ago - so will find a link
Oh, okay then it's OKAY that MJ didn't pay his bills.

(In my book, MJ owing money doesn't make him a terrrible person. I just can't believe the CRAPPY excuses I'm reading here.)

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 09:31 PM

Some of the lawsuits pending are overinflated too. Remember the lawsuit Mark Schaeffel brought against MJ? The judge ordered MJ to pay $900,000 out of the $3Million he sued for and that was the largest suit he had. :shrug:

Also I had forgotten that MJ sued Granada Productions for the Bashir video and he gave the settlement to charity. I just read it not to long ago - so will find a link

Yes, all of this will have to be sorted out and the Judge and the Administrators will have to get the correct figure owed.

Not some overinflated figure which happens a lot when creditors try to rack up the money they really aren't owed.

imo

magnolia

07-10-2009, 09:34 PM

well i do agree with you on this. MJ was financially irresponsible both in spending and paying on time as are many people.

Like you said, not such a big deal (admittedly he had the money to do it on a much larger scale than we can, he had more to spend) but i don't think most of us who defend him do think he is perfect. We think he had prescription drug abuse problems in his life, we realize he was human, and in fact was a troubled soul. The fact he was troubled is what makes me at least believe you cannot look at his love for kids or his different behaviors the same way we do a normal adult male.

He was not. He had a unique life that was so far from the norm most of us will never understand it. It messed him up emotionally, yet he his gift of music and dance, choreography and stardom made him even more vulnerable as a target of unscrupulous people.

No he was not perfect, imo he was always emotionally a child stuck somewhere around 10 years old with a desperate need to be loved, yet he was an adult in intelligence and business. Emotionally stuck as a child does not mean he could not parent well or care or handle his career but it certainly makes for an almost impossible dichotomy.

IMO

I like your first paragraph best. :) :)

Regarding your second paragraph, I do think lots of posters come across feeling like MJ was perfect. But thank you for being real and recognizing that he wasn't perfect. He was a multi-dimensional human person who was not a god. (Not saying you think so.)

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 09:34 PM

Why didn't he pay his bills on time? People he owed depended on the money too. jmo

I don't know. Maybe filled with pain or spiraling down into a deep depression trying to feed that pain by buying million dollar trinkets to feel better even for just a little while.

All I know is all of the analysts say he is going to make more money in death than when he was alive and that is a LOT so his creditors will be paid.

imo

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 09:34 PM

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:35 PM

What??? I said google his name and look at all the stories that pop up on Michael from after his trial until his death. Athena already posted one for you. You want me to post the millions that are on google?

You really can't back up your statement that the press left Michael alone after the trial

No, here's the point. I made a post that maybe Jackson paid off the accuser so he wouldn't go to civil trial. I was answering another poster.

You jumped on and started the thing about the media which is irrelevant anyway. If you think money can't be paid to someone without the media finding out you are sadly mistaken. If you knew anything about how money can be secretly transferred here and there it really isn't my problem.

Actually, I don't even know why you are keeping this up anyway. If you don't want me asking for a link than post it is your opinion.

jmo

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:35 PM

Why didn't he pay his bills on time? People he owed depended on the money too. jmoWhy don't thousands of other Americans pay their bills on time?

magnolia

07-10-2009, 09:37 PM

I'm not proclaiming he was perfect by any means, and I don't know who was in charge of paying his bills. Obviously he had money managers and I don't think he really knew what was going on, except for what they told him until that last guy came on board to tell him the way it was, and then proceed to fire employees he didn't need, and try to save Neverland from foreclosure. I can't imagine having that much money, and someone else watching out for me... but he did it that way for many years.

JMO

SODDI :rolleyes:

MoonFlwr

07-10-2009, 09:38 PM

well i do agree with you on this. MJ was financially irresponsible both in spending and paying on time as are many people.

Like you said, not such a big deal (admittedly he had the money to do it on a much larger scale than we can, he had more to spend) but i don't think most of us who defend him do think he is perfect. We think he had prescription drug abuse problems in his life, we realize he was human, and in fact was a troubled soul. The fact he was troubled is what makes me at least believe you cannot look at his love for kids or his different behaviors the same way we do a normal adult male.

He was not. He had a unique life that was so far from the norm most of us will never understand it. It messed him up emotionally, yet he his gift of music and dance, choreography and stardom made him even more vulnerable as a target of unscrupulous people.

No he was not perfect, imo he was always emotionally a child stuck somewhere around 10 years old with a desperate need to be loved, yet he was an adult in intelligence and business. Emotionally stuck as a child does not mean he could not parent well or care or handle his career but it certainly makes for an almost impossible dichotomy.

IMO

and imo not only did he never molest children but it was the furthest thing from his mind. Just like the 10 or 12 year old he saw love and caring and helping people with rose colored glasses...as adults we know some things are totally inappropriate for an adult to do, but i don't think MJ could ever understand why it was wrong or bad judgement to play with kids or all fall asleep on the same bed or trust only them. Because to him it was nothing more than love and trust and caring. Remember probably the only time he ever did feel secure was sleeping in a bed with all his brothers as a child. So when he says its "a loving thing to do" imo he is saying exactly what he felt as a child..not how an adult pedophile would say it.

IMO

Love the post! You summed up my thoughts on the whole scenario! :)

Pretty Leaf

07-10-2009, 09:39 PM

Michael Jackson: Custody hearing postponed

Jul 10, 2009, 07:41 PM | by John Young

The custody hearing to determine the guardianship of Michael Jackson's three children has been postponed from July 13 to July 20, according to a Los Angeles Superior Court media advisory released on July 10. The postponement was made at the request of the musician's mother, Katherine Jackson, and the musician's ex-wife, Debbie Rowe.

http://news-briefs.ew.com/2009/07/michael-jackson-children-custody.html

bolding mine

So IMO the negotiations have started..Debbie will get money and will drop her actions to get the kids...mark my words.:sneaky:

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 09:39 PM

Why don't thousands of other Americans pay their bills on time? Thousands of people don't spend $50,000.00 more a month than they take in. And most that don't pay, because they can't. He needed a better money man looking out for him. Which I think he did, when he hired his old attny. a month ago. Now this man unfortunately will be working for his estate.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:40 PM

I quit following it here, cause I got in trouble all the time. :ohmy: :laugh:

Actually I don't see the MJ case exactly like the Anna case. I think MJ was much more aware of what he was doing and taking and it was a lot more his choice. Poor Anna was so drugged up all the time and Stern was keeping her that way for control. I think he just kept pooring meds down her throat for that reason. I guess we'll see.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:40 PM

bolding mine

So IMO the negotiations have started..Debbie will get money and will drop her actions to get the kids...mark my words.:sneaky:

I bet you are right. Needs more money to keep that farm going and her horses fed and groomed

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 09:42 PM

Actually I don't see the MJ case exactly like the Anna case. I think MJ was much more aware of what he was doing and taking and it was a lot more his choice. Poor Anna was so drugged up all the time and Stern was keeping her that way for control. I think he just kept pooring meds down her throat for that reason. I guess we'll see.

Not exactly no. I agree.

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 09:42 PM

Sure they did. When the trial ended it was over. jmo

They never backed off of MJ. He was still stalked wherever he went. His kids still had to wear the masks that DR insisted they wear.

Did you see on TMZ? They pulled their video footage and found where they had videoed him going to the three different doctors right before he died and you think they left him alone?

They will never leave him alone.

imo

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 09:42 PM

I was:rolleyes: Some one brought it up and I was responding same thing you have been doing you haven't been staying topic either IMO

Could you please stay on topic?

VC2

07-10-2009, 09:42 PM

Geragos on LKL -- said all these reports we are hearing today about the drugs are just rehashed allegations by the same NL group. Nothing new. I was reading an article and Chris Carter is one of the guards giving them info. If anyone followed the trial - you may recall that he was supposed to be the state's star witness and he was in jail in Las Vegas for kidnapping and armed robbery. :rolleyes:

Geragos is absolutely right in this instance. I did not realize though it was Chris Carters info that the media has been trumpeting as shocking allegations (making it sound like it was recent). He was completely discredited.

i absolutely believe that he had a drug abuse problem (even though i don't think it was that bad recently..he was way to healthy for it and we all saw over the years how it showed when he was not) but no I don't believe he took 40 xanax a night at anytime or 10. They actually have differing dosages and there are stronger tranquilizers than xanax if he needed that much, i didn't believe it then and i didn't believe it now when reminded of 2004 and i sure as heck DONT believe anything Chris Carter said apart from a general agreement that MJ had a drug problem

IMO

eta absolutely APPALLING that the media did not give their source for the 40 or 10 xanax etc. makes a difference when it was someone asked to give information to LE when he was under arrest for robbery!

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:43 PM

Why don't thousands of other Americans pay their bills on time?

LOL We're not talking about thousands of other Americans. We're talking about a man who had plenty of money to pay his bills and didn't. jmo

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:43 PM

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 09:44 PM

well i do agree with you on this. MJ was financially irresponsible both in spending and paying on time as are many people.

Like you said, not such a big deal (admittedly he had the money to do it on a much larger scale than we can, he had more to spend) but i don't think most of us who defend him do think he is perfect. We think he had prescription drug abuse problems in his life, we realize he was human, and in fact was a troubled soul. The fact he was troubled is what makes me at least believe you cannot look at his love for kids or his different behaviors the same way we do a normal adult male.

He was not. He had a unique life that was so far from the norm most of us will never understand it. It messed him up emotionally, yet he his gift of music and dance, choreography and stardom made him even more vulnerable as a target of unscrupulous people.

No he was not perfect, imo he was always emotionally a child stuck somewhere around 10 years old with a desperate need to be loved, yet he was an adult in intelligence and business. Emotionally stuck as a child does not mean he could not parent well or care or handle his career but it certainly makes for an almost impossible dichotomy.

IMO

and imo not only did he never molest children but it was the furthest thing from his mind. Just like the 10 or 12 year old he saw love and caring and helping people with rose colored glasses...as adults we know some things are totally inappropriate for an adult to do, but i don't think MJ could ever understand why it was wrong or bad judgement to play with kids or all fall asleep on the same bed or trust only them. Because to him it was nothing more than love and trust and caring. Remember probably the only time he ever did feel secure was sleeping in a bed with all his brothers as a child. So when he says its "a loving thing to do" imo he is saying exactly what he felt as a child..not how an adult pedophile would say it.

IMO

I agree with this touching post 100 %.:wub:

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:45 PM

LOL We're not talking about thousands of other Americans. We're talking about a man who had plenty of money to pay his bills and didn't. jmoLOL you are bashing him for not paying his bills and he had the money to do it.

My point is there are "regular" people out there that do the same thing.

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 09:46 PM

bolding mine

So IMO the negotiations have started..Debbie will get money and will drop her actions to get the kids...mark my words.:sneaky:

Yeah, I immediately thought the same.

She is giving them the price now. Bet it has increased even more than what she has already gotten.

imo

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:46 PM

bolding mine

So IMO the negotiations have started..Debbie will get money and will drop her actions to get the kids...mark my words.:sneaky:

If so, good for her. MJ hadn't paid her all the money he owed her anyway. He tended not to pay his bills jmo

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 09:47 PM

If he was such a giving guy then how come he didn't pay the people that he owed money to that helped him get where he is today:rolleyes:

As the world continues to mourn the loss of a great artist, the Guiness World Record book remembers Michael Jackson instead as the king of charity.

The Millenium issue listed the music legend under Most Charities Supported By A Pop Star, with a staggering 39 international organizations including the Make-A-Wish Foundation and the American Cancer Society. Those are only the known ones however, as Jackson was also prone to giving away impulsively and anonymously.

Jackson had been known to hand over the proceeds from concerts to local charities and hospitals as he did with the History tour in Bombay, or donate personal items for auction to organisations like UNESCO. It’s been estimated he may have given up to $500 million to charity in his lifetime.

In addition to his charity work, Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, had more Guiness world records than any other artist, including Most Successful Concert Series and Biggest Selling Album for Thriller.

http://jollypeople.com/blog/2009/07/01/michael-jackson-guiness-world-record/

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 09:48 PM

There are two things to say about him. He was a musical genius; and he was an abused child. By abuse, I do not mean sexual abuse; I mean he was used brutally and callously for money, and clearly imprisoned by a tyrannical father. He had no real childhood and spent much of his later life struggling to get one. He was spiritually and psychologically raped at a very early age - and never recovered. Watching him change his race, his age, and almost his gender, you saw a tortured soul seeking what the rest of us take for granted: a normal life.

But he had no compass to find one; no real friends to support and advise him; and money and fame imprisoned him in the delusions of narcissism and self-indulgence. Of course, he bears responsibility for his bizarre life. But the damage done to him by his own family and then by all those motivated more by money and power than by faith and love was irreparable in the end. He died a while ago. He remained for so long a walking human shell.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/06/thinking-about-michael.html

Athena I agree with much of what you are saying.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:49 PM

If so, good for her. MJ hadn't paid her all the money he owed her anyway. He tended not to pay his bills jmo This is according to who? Debbie? LOL LOL

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:49 PM

LOL you are bashing him for not paying his bills and he had the money to do it.

My point is there are "regular" people out there that do the same thing.

I'm not following you. You're either not comprehending my posts on purpose or you can't comprehend posts. jmo

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 09:50 PM

Where is the solid proof he molested children?

You actually think he was sexually aroused by children?

I sure don't MoonHarvest. I tend to think MJ was Asexual.

He was comfortable living his life as a 10 or 12 year old kid that rode ferris wheels, climbed trees, and had water balloon fights.

imo

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 09:50 PM

There are thousands of people that spend much much more than they make. Doesn't matter if you make a million a month or thousand a month, people will still spend more than they make He had the money. If he could pay a Dr. $150,000.00 a mo., he could pay his bills. IMO

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 09:51 PM

That's all the defenders want to talk about they want to ignore that he had a big problem and that's why he is dead IMO

Exactly. They don't want to mention the good that he has done :(

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:51 PM

I'm not following you. You're either not comprehending my posts on purpose or you can't comprehend posts. jmo

Nah, just think it is the other way around

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 09:52 PM

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 09:52 PM

LOL you are bashing him for not paying his bills and he had the money to do it.

My point is there are "regular" people out there that do the same thing. Yes, there are many people who don't pay their bills that can. How does that excuse MJ?? The old "well he did it too" excuse?

MoonFlwr

07-10-2009, 09:53 PM

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:53 PM

That's all the defenders want to talk about they want to ignore that he had a big problem and that's why he is dead IMO

All you and others want to talk about is bashing a dead man.

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 09:53 PM

Oh, I'm sure that brings great comfort to the people who are due the moeny and trying to support themselves, feed their families, etc.:rolleyes:

I tend to think that the majority of these creditors are high rollers not just the average Joe citizen.

imo

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 09:53 PM

He had the money. If he could pay a Dr. $150,000.00 a mo., he could pay his bills. IMO

Umm.. wasn't the AEG (?) company going to pay the Dr?

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 09:54 PM

If so, good for her. MJ hadn't paid her all the money he owed her anyway. He tended not to pay his bills jmo

Can you lead me in the right direction for a credible source that DR did not receive her money? I have read many links that state the exact opposite. In fact I have read where she got money several times, along with housing, monthly allowance, and kept going back for more.

Heck- anyone in their right mind would eventually cut someone like this off at some point. Never enough for her!

I'm not being snarky at all, I am looking for the truth about her not receiving what she claims is owed to her. PLUS,,,,, I doubt we ever see the legal documents drawn up between her and Michael to justify his side of the story, and especially now that he is dead it is her word against someone who can't speak.

JMO

magnolia

07-10-2009, 09:54 PM

It looks like that catalog includes more than just the Beatles:

Reports of financial problems for Jackson became frequent in 2006 after the closure of the main house on the Neverland Ranch as a cost-cutting measure. Despite all these, according to Forbes,Jackson was still making as much as $75 million a year from his publishing partnership with Sony alone.

Jackson and Sony bought Famous Music LLC from Viacom in 2007. This deal gave him the rights to songs by Eminem, Shakira and Beck, among others.Then to celebrate the 25th anniversary of Thriller, Jackson issued Thriller 25, comprising original material from the album, re-mixes, the previously unreleased song "For All Time" and a DVD. Two singles were released to moderate success: "The Girl Is Mine 2008" and "Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’ 2008".As of November 2008, U.S. sales of Thriller 25 stood at 688,000 copies, making it the best-selling catalog album of 2008.To celebrate Jackson’s 50th birthday, Sony BMG released a compilation album called King of Pop in various countries.

http://chill.badusure.com/2009/07/the-death-of-a-legend-michael-jackson/

Okay so he was making money and STILL not paying his bills???

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:55 PM

Yes, there are many people who don't pay their bills that can. How does that excuse MJ?? The old "well he did it too" excuse?

Did I make an excuse for him? Please point me to where I did. TIA
The other poster is making it sound like Michael is the only one in this world they does not pay his bills and spends more than he made

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 09:55 PM

Yes, I think the same, GB.

Hi there.

nice to see you.:seeya:

VC2

07-10-2009, 09:55 PM

The only problem is that Michael was well aware of the drug, its possible effects etc..so MJ knowingly participated..Michael made a huge error there and paid for it with his life!!....Dr. Murray wasnt the correct person to hire to do what Michael wished..I am at this point, amazed MJ survived this long playing the risk game using drugs such as Diprivan..Yikes....this is not the first time..
but many..many many yikes too many time tempting fate!

Look what happened to Dr. Kevorkian..and his was only following the wishes of the person who wanted to DIE...There should be something more here..But who knows.?.I sometimes wonder about some charges that come out of deaths???

LMS

The problem here Lynda is that MJ did not really believe what SOME told him when other doctors were saying its fine. of course he believed the ones who said what he wanted to hear, but he is not a physician and this drug in this way for this reason is not something that he can be expected to know would kill him. He wasn't using it to get high so just ignored the dangers, to him ...it puts you to sleep in the hospital so since he had terrible insomnia then it makes sense to use it. I seriously doubt MJ fully understood the seriousness of needing all the equipment etc.

Unlike taking pills this was and only could be administered by another who had medical training. Not even something joe blow could administer to him.
There is a vast difference between knowingly taking something yourself for a reason you shouldn't - like a high - and someone else choosing to give you something lethal when you thought it was safe because they were an MD.

Overall i agree with you, most charges that are not straight out murder i often think are overblown especially in medical deaths, or cases where someone throws a punch at another and the person falls in such a way they die from hitting their head where they land...those are outrageous imo bc the prosecutors and cops themselves i am sure punched ppl in their lives and only be pure chance did it not happen to them.

malpractice suits are way to many...doctors make mistakes and sometimes people die but so long as it was not a gross error of the sort that even a layman would know not to do - like amputating a leg when you needed arm surgery - accidents happen.

This diprivan issue i feel strongly is completely different from either "regular" malpractice or negligence. The doctor on the tour in the 90's was a board qualified anaesthesiologist who brought all the equipment needed to "bring him down and wake him up" as safely as possible given it was not in a hospital or ethical to do so.

Murray on the other hand didn't even have the qualifications or bring the equipment needed. That is what makes it rise to manslaughter imo and there is no way MJ should be expected to know that he was not doing even the bare minimum or that a cardiologist has almost no experience with administering the stuff

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 09:57 PM

He had the money. If he could pay a Dr. $150,000.00 a mo., he could pay his bills. IMO

No, you have it wrong. AEG was paying the DR. and the rent on the house

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 09:57 PM

Can you lead me in the right direction for a credible source that DR did not receive her money? I have read many links that state the exact opposite. In fact I have read where she got money several times, along with housing, monthly allowance, and kept going back for more.

Heck- anyone in their right mind would eventually cut someone like this off at some point. Never enough for her!

I'm not being snarky at all, I am looking for the truth about her not receiving what she claims is owed to her. PLUS,,,,, I doubt we ever see the legal documents drawn up between her and Michael to justify his side of the story, and especially now that he is dead it is her word against someone who can't speak.

JMO

I guess I'll google it for you if you can't. I heard it on a TV show. jmo

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 09:57 PM

He has never paid the director of the Thriller video and that was over 20 yrs ago what I nice guy MJ was.:angry:

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b81041_legal_thriller_michael_jackson_sued_by.html

Stiffed so many he owed? MJ knew he would never be broke that is why he kept on getting financial help because the investors knew it too.

His Beatles catalog alone is worth 2 Billion.

He will leave no one unpaid and he will still leave a vast fortune to his mom, children and charities.

imo

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 10:00 PM

All you and others want to talk about is bashing a dead man.

Just because he is dead doesn't change the facts of his life. Whatever those facts may be. LET ME PUT THIS IN BOLD BECAUSE I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO MISUNDERSTAND ME. I AM NOT COMPARING MJ. TO OJ....If OJ died tomorrow, would everyone just be commenting on the positive things in his life? IMO

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 10:01 PM

Umm.. wasn't the AEG (?) company going to pay the Dr? IIRC, the company said that MJ was to pay the Dr.

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 10:02 PM

I sure don't MoonHarvest. I tend to think MJ was Asexual.

He was comfortable living his life as a 10 or 12 year old kid that rode ferris wheels, climbed trees, and had water balloon fights.

imo

I don't know about the asexual. He may have had some exchange with women, later in his life, I do believe he did.

Yes Gentle, he related to children, bless his soul. We should all be so lucky. The child within all of us is of a purest character, I believe. When we are able to stay in touch with that part of humanity within us all, we are blessed, imo.

He was tenderhearted imo. He related to children. I don't see him abusing kids. I just don't see it at all.

Brooke Shields said she thought of him as perched on a crescent moon.

This man/child was not a pedophile.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 10:02 PM

Just because he is dead doesn't change the facts of his life. Whatever those facts may be. LET ME PUT THIS IN BOLD BECAUSE I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO MISUNDERSTAND ME. I AM NOT COMPARING MJ. TO OJ....If OJ died tomorrow, would everyone just be commenting on the positive things in his life? IMO

Did you read the other posters post that I replied too?
If people want to bash Michael, why can't people talk about the good things he has done, without getting attacked?

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 10:04 PM

Hi Cinder :seeya:

AEG owes the Dr money -- not MJ. They were also responsible for paying his rent. I think it is too simple to say he did not pay his "bills". Most of the lawsuits are over contractual issues and are much more complex than paying a bill. However, he definitely had poor money management skills.

Hi,

"The promoter of Jackson’s now-canceled London concerts said the singer insisted the company hire Murray to accompany him to England. The promoter, AEG Live, advanced Jackson money to pay the doctor and had been negotiating to pay him $150,000 a month, AEG president and chief executive Randy Phillips said."

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31855763/ns/entertainment-music/

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 10:05 PM

IIRC, the company said that MJ was to pay the Dr.

Perhaps, probably when all of the money/profits were divided up in the end, after the concerts. But, in the mean time AEG most likely paid the Dr.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 10:07 PM

Oops -- just to clarify -- the comments are not mine. They are from the article. :) Ha, then I agree with some of Andrew S. said. :smile:

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 10:07 PM

That's your opinion

I am simply amazed how some seem to be so fixated on sex, sex, sex.

This didn't look like blow up dolls to me.

This look like dolls that could be placed in chairs at a table where the child or children could pretend that Charlie Chaplin or Shirley Temple was dining with them at their tea party.

But I guess one seeks what they want to find.

imo

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 10:08 PM

No, you have it wrong. AEG was paying the DR. and the rent on the house

Not according to what I have read.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31855763/ns/entertainment-music/

bkwits

07-10-2009, 10:08 PM

I tend to think that the majority of these creditors are high rollers not just the average Joe citizen.

imo

Deadbeats love to stiff the little guys because they often have no recourse. IMO

The fact that Jackson didn't seem to care enough to pay people who were in his life and served him shows he is not a great humanitarian. IMO

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 10:08 PM

I can find another source but you probably won't believe that one too:rolleyes:

And just who wrote this article? Did you notice the disclaimer at the bottom of the page? I don't think it is very credible. JMO

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 10:09 PM

I like your first paragraph best. :) :)

Regarding your second paragraph, I do think lots of posters come across feeling like MJ was perfect. But thank you for being real and recognizing that he wasn't perfect. He was a multi-dimensional human person who was not a god. (Not saying you think so.)

And I might add not a pedophile:biggrin:

VC2

07-10-2009, 10:10 PM

Thousands of people don't spend $50,000.00 more a month than they take in. And most that don't pay, because they can't. He needed a better money man looking out for him. Which I think he did, when he hired his old attny. a month ago. Now this man unfortunately will be working for his estate.

The amount doesnt make it bigger than the thousands of others though. Its percentage that matters. That was probably 10-20% more than he had coming in and thousands do overspend that amount monthly. In dollars its stunning but imo it wasn't that hugely different in percentage than some ppl we all have met.

I absolutely agree about his money managers even though it was ultimately his responsbility. Back again to my belief he was still 10 or 12 emotionally though. He had people looking after everything and like a kid he overspends and assumes they will fix it.

I feel so sad for him that he finally got himself together after twelve to 15 years, and i honestly believe he was. Got rid of the leeches and incompetents of the last few years and hired back his old team who were more than competent. Reduced his drug usage - imo he had to be able to get anywhere close to doing the tour let alone rehearsing.

I am convinced he was starting to get his life back in some order at the time he died.

jmo

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 10:10 PM

Hi Moon

Me too !!! I was looking for something else and came across it. I thought it was well written and captured what happened to MJ. :(

Hi Athena, I thought the author captured it brilliantly.

Ice Cycle

07-10-2009, 10:11 PM

Yeah, I immediately thought the same.

She is giving them the price now. Bet it has increased even more than what she has already gotten.

imo

I am not so sure of that, KJ does not remind me of type that is going to negotiate easily. Especially if DR agreed to a certain amount and got it long ago plus J knows the public opinion of DR is not very high. I can see her offering visitation which is probably the way it should be in least until the kids are old enough to decide for themselves.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 10:12 PM

Not according to what I have read.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31855763/ns/entertainment-music/

From your link

the company hire Murray to accompany him to England.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 10:13 PM

I can't even believe he thought it would even work:laugh: Maybe I can help since I'm a blonde maybe the leader likes blondes?

At least he was trying to help them.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 10:13 PM

Did you read the other posters post that I replied too?
If people want to bash Michael, why can't people talk about the good things he has done, without getting attacked?

I don't have any problem with that, and have posted nice things about MJ myself. I don't remember being attacked about it. I do think he was a very caring man, a very giving man. I have said that numerous times. But, I get a little tired of the people who say you can only say nice things about a person because they are dead. There are many, many dead people that I would have nothing nice to say about. I do have nice things to say about MJ.

Pretty Leaf

07-10-2009, 10:13 PM

If so, good for her. MJ hadn't paid her all the money he owed her anyway. He tended not to pay his bills jmo

And your source that he did not pay her in full?? I did not want to get into the "do you have a link? but you have made statments and when asked for a link have balked.

So I googled and have found no article that states he was in arrears to her.

I did find however what was the settlement and she got more than money

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/divorce-papers-reveal-custody-arrangement-details-between-michael-jackson-debbie-rowe/25086

Access Hollywood has uncovered Michael and Debbie's divorce settlement filed on October 13, 1999. Debbie received a settlement of $8.5 million, an SUV and a Beverly Hills home. She got an additional $2 million for entering into a confidentiality agreement

I don't have to add IMO cause I have addressed an actual link, imagine that.

You guys know that give me a link and you didn't post a link and you didn't add IMO makes you look foolish. Like children in the playground..it's my ball no it's my ball Geesh grow up.

Ok now I have vented Now thrash me.:ohmy:

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 10:14 PM

I am not so sure of that, KJ does not remind me of type that is going to negotiate easily. Especially if DR agreed to a certain amount and got it long ago plus J knows the public opinion of DR is not very high. I can see her offering visitation which is probably the way it should be in least until the kids are old enough to decide for themselves.

Hello Ice, I am waiting to see. At this point I am not writing DR off yet. I agree with visitation negotiations.

magnolia

07-10-2009, 10:15 PM

Did you read the other posters post that I replied too?
If people want to bash Michael, why can't people talk about the good things he has done, without getting attacked?

Cause and effect.

The fans that adore him are over-the-top with their love, god-like worship, and justification. It makes the more realistic people strike back.

Also when the "he's a pedophile" crowd goes for the jugular, it cause the MJ fans to run to his defense and explain why he was so pure and wonderful.

Some middle ground here, but not much.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 10:16 PM

Thanks Cinder. Doesn't make sense to me that they say they advanced MJ money to pay the Dr. though? Why would he need advanced payment if he was going to get $150,000 a month from AEG? He was there less than a month? JMO

ETA: Found this too - sounds to me like the contract was between AEG and the Dr:

Michael Jackson's doctor says concert promoter owes him $300,000 [Updated]
8:07 AM | June 28, 2009

Michael Jackson's personal doctor, who was interviewed Saturday by police detectives over the circumstances surrounding the pop star's death, is owed $300,000 from the concert promoter planning Jackson's comeback concerts, his attorney said today.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/michael-jacksons-doctor-say-concert-promoter-owes-him-300000.html

I don't think he is going to get paid, do you? :laugh:

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 10:16 PM

Cause and effect.

The fans that adore him are over-the-top with their love, god-like worship, and justification. It makes the more realistic people strike back.

Also when the "he's a pedophile" crowd goes for the jugular, it cause the MJ fans to run to his defense and explain why he was so pure and wonderful.

Some middle ground here, but not much.

:lol::lol:

Pretty Leaf

07-10-2009, 10:17 PM

OMG - Joe Jackson needs to keep his mouth shut (watching him CNN) I was giving him a little slack because he seems to be uneducated -- but dang ........ he is going to hurt custody that's for sure!!!

No I don't think Joe will be in the equation. She lives in Encino and he lives in LV. They have been seperated for 10 yrs as was reported at the memorial.

magnolia

07-10-2009, 10:17 PM

The amount doesnt make it bigger than the thousands of others though. Its percentage that matters. That was probably 10-20% more than he had coming in and thousands do overspend that amount monthly. In dollars its stunning but imo it wasn't that hugely different in percentage than some ppl we all have met.

I absolutely agree about his money managers even though it was ultimately his responsbility. Back again to my belief he was still 10 or 12 emotionally though. He had people looking after everything and like a kid he overspends and assumes they will fix it.

I feel so sad for him that he finally got himself together after twelve to 15 years, and i honestly believe he was. Got rid of the leeches and incompetents of the last few years and hired back his old team who were more than competent. Reduced his drug usage - imo he had to be able to get anywhere close to doing the tour let alone rehearsing.

I am convinced he was starting to get his life back in some order at the time he died.

jmo

I'm convinced he was more savvy, adult-like than you think.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 10:17 PM

Here you go...like this one better?:rolleyes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1195851/What-WILL-Michael-Jacksons-children.html

I encourage everyone to click on your link and scroll down to the disclaimer at the bottom of it. The disclaimer says that the article was a "posting" submitted by a user of the site, not a member of the Insider Staff.

Let me know when you come up with something credible.

ScoobyDoo

07-10-2009, 10:17 PM

snipped

I don't see a great father in that. IMO

That might matter if you were one of his children. His children adored him, and thought he was the best dad that you "could ever imagine".
Do you think his daughter was lying?

MoonFlwr

07-10-2009, 10:17 PM

Hi there.

nice to see you.:seeya:

Hiya :seeya:

You too! :)

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 10:18 PM

From your link

the company hire Murray to accompany him to England.
But, they said that MJ was supposed to pay him. Anyway you look at it now....I don't think he will get the money.

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 10:18 PM

I don't think he is going to get paid, do you? :laugh:

He could acquire jail time.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 10:23 PM

IMO So if they really were in it for the money that's what they would have done but didn't so it proves to me they weren't in it for the money. OJ was found not guilty but the family sued OJ and won but no money was every paid. And with MJ's history of paying people I don't even think the accusers family would have seen a dime from MJ if they won a civil suite against him either and think of how expensive it is to pay for a lawyer!

It would not be okay, but personally then I would go after the person in civil court where the burden of proof is much lower.

For some reason the Arviso family didn't do that.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 10:23 PM

He could acquire jail time.

I think you just might be right. I agree. And, if he had any money, which I have read that he doesn't, he might just have a bill waiting for him. :wink:

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 10:23 PM

And face a subsequent malpractice suit too !! :ohmy:

I'm sure much more than he "bargained" for.:ohmy:

VC2

07-10-2009, 10:27 PM

OMG - Joe Jackson needs to keep his mouth shut (watching him CNN) I was giving him a little slack because he seems to be uneducated -- but dang ........ he is going to hurt custody that's for sure!!!

I had the same thought when i heard him on the abc "exclusive". Somebody needs to gag the man.

IMO

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 10:27 PM

I am watching NG...I know, I know, but she makes me laugh. :laugh: Anyway, she was showing the interview with MJ and Oprah, and had the sound bite of her asking him why he thought his father beat him. He said that because he was the "golden boy" he was beaten. Does anyone know if the other siblings ever said anything about being beaten???

bkwits

07-10-2009, 10:27 PM

That might matter if you were one of his children. His children adored him, and thought he was the best dad that you "could ever imagine".
Do you think his daughter was lying?

What else could she know? If I give my kids ice cream and cookies every night for dinner, they would probably think I'm a great mom, but am I? Sometimes parents have to make unpopular choices and sacrifices for the good of their child. IMO

BTW, I thought it was rather cruel to put the young girl out their like that. Poor kid. JMO

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 10:32 PM

Great post! These are just other ways MJ enablers allowed MJ to get away with being an resposible adult why should he if he was never held accountable for his actions. Everyone can't stand to hear anything bad about their idol IMO

Bolding is mine...

See this is what I'm talking about. Owing so many people moneyand not paying is not cool. This is what MJ did.

But his adoring public somehow make it okay. He WAS going to pay. It will all be taken care of. He's better than the rest...blah, blah, blah. Give me a break.

Now I don't really thinking that owing people money is SUCH a BIG deal, but come on people. He was not perfect and everything does not need to be justified or explained away.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 10:33 PM

What else could she know? If I give my kids ice cream and cookies every night for dinner, they would probably think I'm a great mom, but am I? Sometimes parents have to make unpopular choices and sacrifices for the good of their child. IMO

BTW, I thought it was rather cruel to put the young girl out their like that. Poor kid. JMO

I have to say that there are a lot of dad's that want to be the fun parent. My husband is one of those. I kept telling him that he was the parent, not their friend. He travels a lot and wanted to have fun with them when he was home. The difference is that there wasn't the balance of a mother in the home. I hope Grace or whoever their Nanny was, gave them that other side.

VC2

07-10-2009, 10:33 PM

I don't think he is going to get paid, do you? :laugh:

:laugh: Knowing that the diprivan information would come out at autopsy after it was found in the house, for him to have the nerve to complain he was owed money....geeze you kill one of the worlds greatest entertainers and Complain he wasn't paid for his services lmao. Esp[ecially after he or his attorney had said that he was there to sit at MJ's bedside when he slept on certain nights, he didn't even give himself wiggle room to deny he administered it.

imo

MoonFlwr

07-10-2009, 10:35 PM

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 10:35 PM

What else could she know? If I give my kids ice cream and cookies every night for dinner, they would probably think I'm a great mom, but am I? Sometimes parents have to make unpopular choices and sacrifices for the good of their child. IMO

BTW, I thought it was rather cruel to put the young girl out their like that. Poor kid. JMO

They didn't force her to be up there. She wanted to speak out. Even Janet asked her was she sure. She wanted the world to know the deep love she has for her daddy. And the world did hear her and her words were what everyone remembers the most.

imo

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 10:37 PM

I don't know if I agree with that. Children can perceive whether they are cared for or not.

Right and Paris is 11, not a 2 year old.

imo

Kathlb

07-10-2009, 10:38 PM

I'm convinced he was more savvy, adult-like than you think.

I read yesterday (not sure where) that one of his sisters said that little baby voice he talked in was all put on for the fans. When they were alone, he talked in a normal male voice. I am not saying MJ wasn't a nice guy who had lofty ideals about how the world should be and tried to help others. But you have to remember folks, he was an "entertainer" of the first order. That persona brought in millions of dollars over the years. The MJ you saw and heard was his face to the world of entertainment. He had to keep that persona in front of the media and fans at all times. Doesn't mean he didn't have problems that others do in society such as drug abuse, sexual problems and other things. It doesn't make him a monster or an angel, it just makes him what he really was...an entertainer and a real person with lots of problems. Not a devil, not a God, but a human being.

I'm sorry he's gone, but I'm not too happy with him right now and it's strictly about the kids. I don't care what he did to himself, but over the years, there had to be problems with raising those little kids and being strung out on drugs and of course he took that chance of leaving them at any time with overdoses. Not cool for a dad at all. And by leaving them to Kathryn, he put them into a situation with Joe too. Kathryn is not commenting on the fact that Joe is around now and doing the talking for the both of them. Monday will be interesting for sure. MOO

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 10:39 PM

Here you go...like this one better?:rolleyes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1195851/What-WILL-Michael-Jacksons-children.html

No, because The Daily Mail is a Tabloid like The Sun, Enquier and Star

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 10:40 PM

magnolia

07-10-2009, 10:40 PM

I read yesterday (not sure where) that one of his sisters said that little baby voice he talked in was all put on for the fans. When they were alone, he talked in a normal male voice. I am not saying MJ wasn't a nice guy who had lofty ideals about how the world should be and tried to help others. But you have to remember folks, he was an "entertainer" of the first order. That persona brought in millions of dollars over the years. The MJ you saw and heard was his face to the world of entertainment. He had to keep that persona in front of the media and fans at all times. Doesn't mean he didn't have problems that others do in society such as drug abuse, sexual problems and other things. It doesn't make him a monster or an angel, it just makes him what he really was...an entertainer and a real person with lots of problems. Not a devil, not a God, but a human being.

I'm sorry he's gone, but I'm not too happy with him right now and it's strictly about the kids. I don't care what he did to himself, but over the years, there had to be problems with raising those little kids and being strung out on drugs and of course he took that chance of leaving them at any time with overdoses. Not cool for a dad at all. And by leaving them to Kathryn, he put them into a situation with Joe too. Kathryn is not commenting on the fact that Joe is around now and doing the talking for the both of them. Monday will be interesting for sure. MOO

Wow...very well expressed and thought out. :)

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 10:41 PM

I really hate to sound so niave..but who the heck paid Michael's bills..I have never heard of any accountants..nor CEO's..or COO's..Who the hck ran the everyday accounting for Michael Jackson?..You have to know he spent millions..and it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars monthly just to live..So who the heck was responsible to pay the monthly bills??..I truly hate to show my ignorance..But when you speak of MJ's empire..Just who can answer for his "Accounting"?

LMS

LMAO

Hey... you... that's the million dollar question. :)

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 10:42 PM

-----------------

The two women reporters being held captive...............yeah......that story is as fake

Do you have a link that says the story is a fake?
The story came from Michaels friend

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 10:45 PM

-----------------

The two women reporters being held captive...............yeah......that story is as fake as the one that was posted last week about MJ dying in 2005 and being buried under the tracks at Neverland. jmo

Proof please. I really don't think that Deepak Chopra's son is a liar. I find the family to be quite credible.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 10:45 PM

I agree with you. How can MJ kids think he was the best dad they didn't even know other dads to compare him to. Wait until they get old enough to find out that MJ didn't even want his kids to have a mom! IMO

Yes, and some may never get paid. What if some person who performed a service doesn't have documentation to show the executors? IMO, MJ was self-centered, narrisstic, and had other problems. Posters here go on and on about what a great humanitarian and great dad he was. He only seemed to care when he got the glory.

As for being a great dad, that remains to be seen. From the interview of Nancy Grace (the link should be posted here somewhere), the kids were dragged from pillar to post for several years. It was whoever MJ could mooch off of. How were they educated? How could they have had any kind of normal childhood, when they had to wear veils, and masks. They don't even have proper names. He had to burden them with his given name -- all three of them. He denies them a mother. I don't see a great father in that. IMO

VC2

07-10-2009, 10:46 PM

I'm convinced he was more savvy, adult-like than you think.

oh business wise i think he was, just meant that his overspending seemed as heedless as a kids..that emotionally he expected others would fix it. By all accounts he was very bright in business.

Don't get me wrong, when i say emotionally i don't mean that he was childlike in any way but that. Kids are selfish, stubborn, loving, kind. I am an adult but have a childlike emotional reaction to some things brought on by chronic depression and anxiety..on disability for it. I don't THINK i am stupid lol, but i can only handle stress with tears and breakdowns, and often have an almost hysterical reaction to some things that others don't understand...like something being unfair or wrong. I get all worked out and refuse to "see reason". Like i believe that any prosecutor who convicts someone of a crime when they were innocent should have to finish the exonerated persons sentence. I get that to most of the world that is unreasonable, but i personally think anyone who takes the life and liberty of someone should be put in prison especially when they work hard to do it and often hide evidence or twist things to make the person seem guilty (since he was innocent then clearly there was no evidence to show him guilty. I am talking the hundreds of exonerated for rape or murder, not MJ here btw). I still get outraged, burst into tears and cannot for one moment understand why they are given a pass just because its "their job" and at the least civil suits should be allowed against the prosecutor. My premise is that they were wrong, they convicted an innocent man and worked as hard as possible to convince a jury they were responsbile based on no evidence. Because there is no evidence of guilt if someone is innocent.

Yes i have been told i am childish many a time for my beliefs on right and wrong and fairness and unfairness. It does not make me incapable or unable to understand the business world or medical world or adult world in general. But my postman started bringing the mail to my door rather than the big square of mailboxes because i would panic at having to check the mail in case there was a bill. I know its unreasonable but i felt if i didn't get the mail then i didn't have to deal with anything. Stopped panic attacks daily at least, so the mail man would bring me the "good mail" after he stopped to see if i was ok bc the box got full and never emptied and i explained.

IMO

eta...i did have a friend who would go through it and handle the "bad" mail for me once a month.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 10:48 PM

Proof please. I really don't think that Deepak Chopra's son is a liar.

She does not have any proof. She never can back up what she says. She mentioned a week or so ago that at the Michael Jackson press confernece in London, it was not Michael giving that press confernece promoting his tour. LOL LOL

This press conference

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_256XQiS1X8

MoonFlwr

07-10-2009, 10:48 PM

Great post! These are just other ways MJ enablers allowed MJ to get away with being an resposible adult why should he if he was never held accountable for his actions. Everyone can't stand to hear anything bad about their idol IMO

I don't think you should assume that everyone who says supportive things about MJ saw him as an idol.

magnolia

07-10-2009, 10:49 PM

Michael in his most important role ever, dad:

1. Reportedly had a very bad drug problem.
2. Reports that his kids had to tell him repeatedly that they loved him.
3. Heard that when the children were completely comfortable around Grace but not MJ...they were nervous (ex. when they were singing his song. This may have been disputed.)
4. What's up with MJ calling blanket an "apple head" especially when he was so sensitive growing up about his nose? (I heard it on tv.)
5. Just all the odd things, drama, masks, plastic surgery (not being happy with himself),

The Good Things:
1. Nice manners were taught.
2. Saw the world.
3. Seemed gentle with them.

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 10:50 PM

oh business wise i think he was, just meant that his overspending seemed as heedless as a kids..that emotionally he expected others would fix it. By all accounts he was very bright in business.

Don't get me wrong, when i say emotionally i don't mean that he was childlike in any way but that. Kids are selfish, stubborn, loving, kind. I am an adult but have a childlike emotional reaction to some things brought on by chronic depression and anxiety..on disability for it. I don't THINK i am stupid lol, but i can only handle stress with tears and breakdowns, and often have an almost hysterical reaction to some things that others don't understand...like something being unfair or wrong. I get all worked out and refuse to "see reason". Like i believe that any prosecutor who convicts someone of a crime when they were innocent should have to finish the exonerated persons sentence. I get that to most of the world that is unreasonable, but i personally think anyone who takes the life and liberty of someone should be put in prison especially when they work hard to do it and often hide evidence or twist things to make the person seem guilty (since he was innocent then clearly there was no evidence to show him guilty. I am talking the hundreds of exonerated for rape or murder, not MJ here btw). I still get outraged, burst into tears and cannot for one moment understand why they are given a pass just because its "their job" and at the least civil suits should be allowed against the prosecutor. My premise is that they were wrong, they convicted an innocent man and worked as hard as possible to convince a jury they were responsbile based on no evidence. Because there is no evidence of guilt if someone is innocent.

Yes i have been told i am childish many a time for my beliefs on right and wrong and fairness and unfairness. It does not make me incapable or unable to understand the business world or medical world or adult world in general. But my postman started bringing the mail to my door rather than the big square of mailboxes because i would panic at having to check the mail in case there was a bill. I know its unreasonable but i felt if i didn't get the mail then i didn't have to deal with anything. Stopped panic attacks daily at least, so the mail man would bring me the "good mail" after he stopped to see if i was ok bc the box got full and never emptied and i explained.

IMO

eta...i did have a friend who would go through it and handle the "bad" mail for me once a month.

"Like i believe that any prosecutor who convicts someone of a crime when they were innocent should have to finish the exonerated persons sentence. I get that to most of the world that is unreasonable, but i personally think anyone who takes the life and liberty of someone should be put in prison especially when they work hard to do it and often hide evidence or twist things to make the person seem guilty (since he was innocent then clearly there was no evidence to show him guilty. I am talking the hundreds of exonerated for rape or murder, not MJ here btw). I still get outraged, burst into tears and cannot for one moment understand why they are given a pass just because its "their job"

What a GREAT idea!

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 10:51 PM

IMO I refuse to see him this so called stuck 10 yr old. Even his handlers say he was a smart business man. You can't be a naive 10 yr old and raise 3 kids and be a smart business man. Funny how when MJ gets himself in trouble he is painted as this naive 10 yr old boy that never had a childhood but then when it comes to his kids he's the best dad. I hardly know any 10 yrs myself that are great fathers!:glare:

well i do agree with you on this. MJ was financially irresponsible both in spending and paying on time as are many people.

Like you said, not such a big deal (admittedly he had the money to do it on a much larger scale than we can, he had more to spend) but i don't think most of us who defend him do think he is perfect. We think he had prescription drug abuse problems in his life, we realize he was human, and in fact was a troubled soul. The fact he was troubled is what makes me at least believe you cannot look at his love for kids or his different behaviors the same way we do a normal adult male.

He was not. He had a unique life that was so far from the norm most of us will never understand it. It messed him up emotionally, yet he his gift of music and dance, choreography and stardom made him even more vulnerable as a target of unscrupulous people.

No he was not perfect, imo he was always emotionally a child stuck somewhere around 10 years old with a desperate need to be loved, yet he was an adult in intelligence and business. Emotionally stuck as a child does not mean he could not parent well or care or handle his career but it certainly makes for an almost impossible dichotomy.

IMO

and imo not only did he never molest children but it was the furthest thing from his mind. Just like the 10 or 12 year old he saw love and caring and helping people with rose colored glasses...as adults we know some things are totally inappropriate for an adult to do, but i don't think MJ could ever understand why it was wrong or bad judgement to play with kids or all fall asleep on the same bed or trust only them. Because to him it was nothing more than love and trust and caring. Remember probably the only time he ever did feel secure was sleeping in a bed with all his brothers as a child. So when he says its "a loving thing to do" imo he is saying exactly what he felt as a child..not how an adult pedophile would say it.

IMO

Kathlb

07-10-2009, 10:51 PM

I agree with you. How can MJ kids think he was the best dad they didn't even know other dads to compare him to. Wait until they get old enough to find out that MJ didn't even want his kids to have a mom! IMO

It bothers me over those little kids. I noticed that Joe said they were doing just fine and getting to know their cousins. That means that MJ kept them inside, home schooled and no friends or other little relatives. They never even knew them. That's so selfish of MJ and it is a testament to the kids that they are trying to cope now being out of confinement. I see a lot of problems ahead and they all stem from MJ's idea of raising them in a hothouse environment. There are all kinds of abuse. Joe had a physical one for MJ, and MJ passed it on in fine order only in a mental form. To my way of thinking, they both abused children in different ways. Not surprising since a lot of times the abused become abusers. He should have seen to their socialization as a very important part of their upbringing. JMHO

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 10:52 PM

oh business wise i think he was, just meant that his overspending seemed as heedless as a kids..that emotionally he expected others would fix it. By all accounts he was very bright in business.

Don't get me wrong, when i say emotionally i don't mean that he was childlike in any way but that. Kids are selfish, stubborn, loving, kind. I am an adult but have a childlike emotional reaction to some things brought on by chronic depression and anxiety..on disability for it. I don't THINK i am stupid lol, but i can only handle stress with tears and breakdowns, and often have an almost hysterical reaction to some things that others don't understand...like something being unfair or wrong. I get all worked out and refuse to "see reason". Like i believe that any prosecutor who convicts someone of a crime when they were innocent should have to finish the exonerated persons sentence. I get that to most of the world that is unreasonable, but i personally think anyone who takes the life and liberty of someone should be put in prison especially when they work hard to do it and often hide evidence or twist things to make the person seem guilty (since he was innocent then clearly there was no evidence to show him guilty. I am talking the hundreds of exonerated for rape or murder, not MJ here btw). I still get outraged, burst into tears and cannot for one moment understand why they are given a pass just because its "their job" and at the least civil suits should be allowed against the prosecutor. My premise is that they were wrong, they convicted an innocent man and worked as hard as possible to convince a jury they were responsbile based on no evidence. Because there is no evidence of guilt if someone is innocent.

Yes i have been told i am childish many a time for my beliefs on right and wrong and fairness and unfairness. It does not make me incapable or unable to understand the business world or medical world or adult world in general. But my postman started bringing the mail to my door rather than the big square of mailboxes because i would panic at having to check the mail in case there was a bill. I know its unreasonable but i felt if i didn't get the mail then i didn't have to deal with anything. Stopped panic attacks daily at least, so the mail man would bring me the "good mail" after he stopped to see if i was ok bc the box got full and never emptied and i explained.

IMO

eta...i did have a friend who would go through it and handle the "bad" mail for me once a month.

Honey, your honesty is AMAZING. Good for you all the way around.

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 10:53 PM

She does not have any proof. She never can back up what she says. She mentioned a week or so ago that at the Michael Jackson press confernece in London, it was not Michael giving that press confernece promoting his tour. LOL LOL

This press conference

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_256XQiS1X8

OOOO, I do remember that, and thanks.

bkwits

07-10-2009, 10:55 PM

I don't know if I agree with that. Children can perceive whether they are cared for or not.

I have to disagree. Even abused children (not that she was abused) cling to their abusers. What is she going to say when she gets up there? I can't quite see her saying, "Well, he wasn't such a great dad." IMO, she probably loved him but that doesn't make MJ a great dad."

IMHO

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 10:56 PM

Yeah shift the question to some other subject MJ had the money so the question is why didn't he pay what was owed to the people he had to pay. Most people can't pay their bills because they don't have money MJ did....:rolleyes:

Why don't thousands of other Americans pay their bills on time?

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 10:56 PM

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 10:57 PM

-------------------

MJ is NOT the only person who has helped to build hospitals, feed the needy or help aids patients. There has been many others. jmo

Can you list other people that donated close to 500 million to charities?

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 10:58 PM

I really hate to sound so niave..but who the heck paid Michael's bills..I have never heard of any accountants..nor CEO's..or COO's..Who the hck ran the everyday accounting for Michael Jackson?..You have to know he spent millions..and it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars monthly just to live..So who the heck was responsible to pay the monthly bills??..I truly hate to show my ignorance..But when you speak of MJ's empire..Just who can answer for his "Accounting"?

LMS :laugh::laugh:I want to know that too. I sure don't want to make a mistake and hire the same person.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 11:00 PM

-----------------

The two women reporters being held captive...............yeah......that story is as fake as the one that was posted last week about MJ dying in 2005 and being buried under the tracks at Neverland. what will they come up with next? Maybe he had a cure for cancer? jmo

That wasn't true???:ohmy:

magnolia

07-10-2009, 11:00 PM

Your number 4 is wrong
That was on the news today
It was Macaulay Culkin that autographed a picture to Michael and refered to him as 'Apple Head" in it
It was the picture that was in the "closet" in Michaels' room

Except I'm almost positive that I heard it said when watching Michael, maybe it was Prince I and Paris. (The video where Paris sat there looking so sad, in her pretty dress. They all have red makeup on their cheeks.) I'll have to check again, what I watched.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 11:01 PM

Wow you make him sound like he was a slave he wasn't chained up and forced to do hard labor in a field. He liked to entertain and dance so his father might have been hard on him but he was hard on all the kids and you don't see them acting as strange as MJ did.

There are two things to say about him. He was a musical genius; and he was an abused child. By abuse, I do not mean sexual abuse; I mean he was used brutally and callously for money, and clearly imprisoned by a tyrannical father. He had no real childhood and spent much of his later life struggling to get one. He was spiritually and psychologically raped at a very early age - and never recovered. Watching him change his race, his age, and almost his gender, you saw a tortured soul seeking what the rest of us take for granted: a normal life.

But he had no compass to find one; no real friends to support and advise him; and money and fame imprisoned him in the delusions of narcissism and self-indulgence. Of course, he bears responsibility for his bizarre life. But the damage done to him by his own family and then by all those motivated more by money and power than by faith and love was irreparable in the end. He died a while ago. He remained for so long a walking human shell.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/06/thinking-about-michael.html

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 11:03 PM

LOL..I did a quick looky-lou..and apparantly back in 2006 he sued his accountants..give me a minute to find that,,LOL

Michael Jackson Sues Accountants for Failing to Pay His Bills Properly

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,238482,00.html

\yikes its pretty sad..when you have to sue a company like this..He is an artist I get that..but did he never learn how to add and subtract..and write checks?..Maybe not..He's been famous since he was a toddler!!..What a delema!!

LMS:laugh:

I think he was a shrewd business man, not a good money man.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 11:03 PM

What else do you expect when you are famous. If MJ wanted to be left alone and be normal then he should have got out of the business. He can't expect to be famous and not stalked!

They never backed off of MJ. He was still stalked wherever he went. His kids still had to wear the masks that DR insisted they wear.

Did you see on TMZ? They pulled their video footage and found where they had videoed him going to the three different doctors right before he died and you think they left him alone?

They will never leave him alone.

imo

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 11:05 PM

Except I'm almost positive that I heard it said when watching Michael, maybe it was Prince I and Paris. (The video where Paris sat there looking so sad, in her pretty dress. They all have red makeup on their cheeks.) I'll have to check again, what I watched.

Hello, I have one of the most adorable and admired Siamese cats around...he is referred to often in write ups regarding Siamese cats, as an apple head.

http://www.siamesekittens.com/

:laugh::lol::wub:

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 11:06 PM

It wouldn't surprise me the Jackson's are famous for buying off people. Funny how everyone wants to make Debbie look bad what about MJ for paying off someone not to be a mom I guess that's ok. IMO

Yeah, I immediately thought the same.

She is giving them the price now. Bet it has increased even more than what she has already gotten.

imo

VC2

07-10-2009, 11:08 PM

Honey, your honesty is AMAZING. Good for you all the way around.

well i guess i just wanted to explain how someone can be emotionally childlike and still function as an adult in most ways. And i have no where near the issues that MJ does. Just enough though i can understand why he was inappropriate at times but did not see it himself.

have to admit though after i posted it i wanted to run away and hide :blushing:

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 11:08 PM

Can you list other people that donated close to 500 million to charities? Bill Gates??

Ice Cycle

07-10-2009, 11:09 PM

:laugh::laugh:I want to know that too. I sure don't want to make a mistake and hire the same person.

No offense but I don't think that will be a problem because I am sure they were charging him boo coous (not sure how that is spelled). When someone has the amount of money that he did it is not just a matter of adding and subtracting it is about putting and transferring $ in investments that yield the best.
What concerns me is back when he originally borrowed that 200M I believe the Attorney's/ Advisor's were the one's he let go and then rehired and are the one's that is now executor of his will. Of course know one really knows if he followed their advise or who was advising later on.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 11:09 PM

Except I'm almost positive that I heard it said when watching Michael, maybe it was Prince I and Paris. (The video where Paris sat there looking so sad, in her pretty dress. They all have red makeup on their cheeks.) I'll have to check again, what I watched.

According to the New York Post:

The Post's David K. Li reports that a sheriff's evidence-inventory memo states: "The photograph was signed and had a message written on it. The message stated, 'To Apple Head. Always remember keep Apple Head Club Doo Doo Head Alive.' It was signed 'McCauley Caulkin'

http://socialitelife.celebuzz.com/archive/macaulay-culkin/index.php

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 11:10 PM

well i guess i just wanted to explain how someone can be emotionally childlike and still function as an adult in most ways. And i have no where near the issues that MJ does. Just enough though i can understand why he was inappropriate at times but did not see it himself.

have to admit though after i posted it i wanted to run away and hide :blushing:

Honey, of course you wanted to run away and hide, but that was very healthy.imo:thumbup:

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 11:11 PM

Wow you make him sound like he was a slave he wasn't chained up and forced to do hard labor in a field. He liked to entertain and dance so his father might have been hard on him but he was hard on all the kids and you don't see them acting as strange as MJ did.

I asked earlier, but have you heard the other kids say their dad abused them? I am curious? Michael said he was picked on by Joe because he was the "golden boy".

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 11:12 PM

What else do you expect when you are famous. If MJ wanted to be left alone and be normal then he should have got out of the business. He can't expect to be famous and not stalked!

She was responding to Tokyo Rose who said the press backed off Michael after his trial

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 11:12 PM

I asked earlier, but have you heard the other kids say their dad abused them? I am curious? Michael said he was picked on by Joe because he was the "golden boy".

The "golden boy" = the money machine, imo.

ScoobyDoo

07-10-2009, 11:13 PM

What else could she know? If I give my kids ice cream and cookies every night for dinner, they would probably think I'm a great mom, but am I? Sometimes parents have to make unpopular choices and sacrifices for the good of their child. IMO

BTW, I thought it was rather cruel to put the young girl out their like that. Poor kid. JMO

When you heard Paris speak, and then collapse into sobs, it was pure and raw grief. I don't think she was grieving over ice cream and cookies. She is grieving the loss of the most important person in her life, the person she loved most in the world.

But if you think her sobs were about cookies and ice cream... whatever, you are entitled to think what you wish.

bkwits

07-10-2009, 11:14 PM

What else do you expect when you are famous. If MJ wanted to be left alone and be normal then he should have got out of the business. He can't expect to be famous and not stalked!

IMO Michael Jackson's biggest fear was being unnoticed. Why else would he pull all those publicity stunts and wear garish make-up and outlandish outfits? Many celebraties are left alone in their daily lives by acting normal and not calling attention to themselves. He wanted the attention and adoration of his fans, or really of everyone. IMO

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 11:15 PM

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 11:15 PM

No offense but I don't think that will be a problem because I am sure they were charging him boo coous (not sure how that is spelled). When someone has the amount of money that he did it is not just a matter of adding and subtracting it is about putting and transferring $ in investments that yield the best.
What concerns me is back when he originally borrowed that 200M I believe the Attorney's/ Advisor's were the one's he let go and then rehired and are the one's that is now executor of his will. Of course know one really knows if he followed their advise or who was advising later on.

Well now, I resent that. You have no idea how much money I have. :laugh: What ever they did....they weren't adding and subtracting properly if he was spending more a month than he took in. Bad accounting....if you ask me.

magnolia

07-10-2009, 11:17 PM

According to the New York Post:

The Post's David K. Li reports that a sheriff's evidence-inventory memo states: "The photograph was signed and had a message written on it. The message stated, 'To Apple Head. Always remember keep Apple Head Club Doo Doo Head Alive.' It was signed 'McCauley Caulkin'

http://socialitelife.celebuzz.com/archive/macaulay-culkin/index.php

And I just watched the video in the links section, "apple head" was his pet name for his son. His son at the time did have an apple-shaped head (a cute apple, but an apple nevertheless). But I've now read he called more than one person that so maybe it was so bad.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 11:17 PM

The "golden boy" = the money machine, imo. Exactly, but have the other siblings said that Joe abused them?

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 11:20 PM

Exactly, but have the other siblings said that Joe abused them?

I don't know. But, one brother sure felt responsible for Michael, said he wished he could have died instead. Said he "took care" of MJ, I believe. Very touching interview.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 11:21 PM

I don't know. But, one brother sure felt responsible for Michael, said he wished he could have died instead. Said he "took care" of MJ, I believe. I heard that. Sad. I really don't know anything about the Jackson's history. Just wondering if MJ was the only one abused by Joe. I think that would be strange with all of the children they have.

bkwits

07-10-2009, 11:22 PM

When you heard Paris speak, and then collapse into sobs, it was pure and raw grief. I don't think she was grieving over ice cream and cookies. She is grieving the loss of the most important person in her life, the person she loved most in the world.

But if you think her sobs were about cookies and ice cream... whatever, you are entitled to think what you wish.

Well, I guess i should have been more explicit. I didn't mean to imply that this child was given ice cream and cookies for dinner. I merely said that if I did that with my children, I wouldn't be a good mom but they would think I was.

I was trying to point out that an 11 year old child who has only one parent, then that parent dies, and everyone is grief stricken and overly emotional around that child. Of course, the child will be devastated. I'm sure she loved him. He was all she had, besides her brothers, that was a constant in her life.

IMO

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 11:23 PM

I heard that. Sad. I really don't know anything about the Jackson's history. Just wondering if MJ was the only one abused by Joe. I think that would be strange with all of the children they have.

Not really, there are many families where one child is singled out.

I wonder about the serious auto immune diseases the dermatologist reported MJ had. I wonder if some of those don't come about from undue stress to the system.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 11:24 PM

Well, I guess i should have been more explicit. I didn't mean to imply that this child was given ice cream and cookies for dinner. I merely said that if I did that with my children, I wouldn't be a good mom but they would think I was.

I was trying to point out that an 11 year old child who has only one parent, then that parent dies, and everyone is grief stricken and overly emotional around that child. Of course, the child will be devastated. I'm sure she loved him. He was all she had, besides her brothers, that was a constant in her life.

IMOAnd even with two parents, the "fun" parent is always the best.

Calla

07-10-2009, 11:25 PM

I have wondered if MJ ever had an intimate relationship in the sexual sense.

There are rumors and cover stories all over, but has anyone come out and said they had a relationship of that type with him?
*other than the parents and kids involved in the 'pay me off' trial?

Sometimes I could truly see a person remaining celibate their entire life because of their experience with what they were taught about what 'love' is suppose to be while they were growing up. And I could imagine someone being able to love beyond the human lustful norm.

I think it may be possible for someone to be asexual due to choice connected to emotional issues...but I don't know much.:biggrin:

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 11:27 PM

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 11:27 PM

I guess I'll google it for you if you can't. I heard it on a TV show. jmo

Serenity:

I found a PDF and transferred to my desktop but don't know how to put in in a link. They are court papers. I will have to ask my son how to do it. I have a Mac.

Basically she was suppose to get 1 million per year for the first three years and a house. After that she was suppose to get 900,000 per year for the next six years. She took him back to court because she needed money and it was only minimal. She turned in a list of bills. It's spelled out. From the way I calculate this, she should be getting another 900,000 this year for the last time, but not sure I tried to calculate it because of the oldest, age of 12. She might be getting the 900,000 for another three years. Her lawyer was on TV saying she hadn't been receiving money on time or at all. He said she only received 2 million for the first 2 years. I'm looking for that but don't remember the channel.

Anyway, after all payments were made, she was to receive 8.5 million total over the time span. She has visitation rights. Some documents were no longer on the webb.

For now jmo is all I can say.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 11:27 PM

Not really, there are many families where one child is singled out.

I wonder about the serious auto immune diseases the dermatologist reported MJ had. I wonder if some of those don't come about from undue stress to the system.

That is true about being singled out. Read "A Child Called It". Not that I am comparing Dave's (can't remember his last name) with MJ's abuse. Dave's was horrific. But, I was wondering about the others. I don't have any idea if they were also abused. :shrug:

magnolia

07-10-2009, 11:28 PM