Michael Jackson ~ Friday 7/10 [Archive] - Page 2

VC2

07-10-2009, 03:31 PM

One of my family members had her back broken while she worked in a home. The doctors stated she would never walk again. This was many years ago. During her recovery period she was taking peradan (sp) like they were M&M's. I would lay odds that she must have had about 30 pills a day. She took these pills for years and I can truthfully tell you that you would have never known that she had so many pills in her. Thankfully she is walking and now off that medication. So you can never tell the tolerence level of any one person.

very true. I have the tolerance of an elephant, drives my doctor nuts because he has seen it in action and has to prescribe what looks like a high amount for it to give me an effect. Always sighs and says "i have to clear all the red flags" as he waits for the scripts to print from the computer. Tylenol 3's i can eat like candy and the pain won't stop so i hate them, destroys the liver and does little pain relief. Demerol i have to take 2 of, one does nothing. My tolerance is due to a drug problem as a teen when i used the a"downers". Gah 30 years later and i still have the resistance.

Its also a problem for someone like MJ or anyone who ever had take a large amount for legitimate pain reasons in their life. Later on they can take far more, or need far more to get relief.

Others just have receptors that naturally tolerate the meds. In fact, if on anti depressants its my belief that tolerance can actually increase because you are changing the neural receptors behavior and even tho its not the opiate receptors, the 3 main neurochemicals all have a cascade effect

IMO

achristie

07-10-2009, 03:34 PM

Hello, I just read the same article and came here to post.

This caught my attention:

"He said Michael's daughter, Paris, who spoke at the Tuesday memorial service, was taking the death hard and was crying whenever Michael's name is mentioned. "

Poor little Paris.

"He said that she might have a future in the entertainment business along with the youngest son, nicknamed Blanket, who "can really dance.""

I sure hope for the sake of the children this is only if they are ready, able, and willing, "to have a future in the entertainment business." (thud) Not so sure the "entertainment business" proved to be so good for Michael Jackson. Given the outcome, and the results of his start, with "Joe" as his manager.

I think Joe Jackson was referring to his wife, Katherine.
She's brokenhearted.
.................................................. ...
Katherine Jackson, who is gearing up for a custody battle for the three Jackson children, still has a hard time even talking about her seventh child.

"She's taking it real hard," Joe Jackson said. "When you start talking about Michael she starts crying

magnolia

07-10-2009, 03:36 PM

Believe what you wish, it really is no concern to me what you believe.

I am not defending his immature decision to have sleepovers with children but yes, I am defending him, when I say and mean, I do not believe for one second he ever molested children.So carry on.......

Bolding is mine...

Why is that? Because he's an entertainer?

magnolia

07-10-2009, 03:37 PM

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 03:39 PM

sorry if already posted

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=8047192&page=1
EXCLUSIVE: Jackson Patriarch Fears 'Foul Play' in Michael Jackson Death
For more on the Joe Jackson exclusive interview tune into a special edition of "Primetime: Family Secrets"-- "The Jackson Family: Life After Michael", Tuesday, July 14,

Nic99

07-10-2009, 03:39 PM

I really didn't want to get in this discussion but since you insist on bringing it up. You weren't there to see if they were "sleeping". I can't believe you would condone strange children sleeping with a grown man. You know what happens when that grown MAN wakes up don't you? Not a world little boys should be exposed to no matter who mj was. It's disgusting.

I don't know if you have little kids, but would you send them out to sleep with a man or even a woman you never met? Or even if you knew them it isn't normal.

How about if your husband came home and said he was having little boys sleep in the bed and you sleep on he couch?

I'm sure you'll come up with more excuses to condone the bad behavior.
imo

Just because you are sleeping in the same bed as someone, does not mean something HAS to happen. It sounds to me like your mind is working in overdrive. MJ was naive yes, in his thinking that no-one else would think the worse (as you do), but I believe nothing untoward ever happened and it is all down to the fact of his lost childhood, etc. Don't you know this went to court and was dissected and a US jury found him NOT GUILTY. Can't you just leave it at that.

lilismom

07-10-2009, 03:40 PM

Eh. I'm done for the day.

Have a wonderful sunny weekend everyone!

IMO,
Lilismom

~layla~

07-10-2009, 03:43 PM

Baited how? I resent that, truly. Some people see M Jackson for the freak that he was. Anyone who disagrees with you is baiting? :confused:

In a short answer, yes.

Nic99

07-10-2009, 03:44 PM

Baited how? I resent that, truly. Some people see M Jackson for the freak that he was. Anyone who disagrees with you is baiting? :confused:

I thought this thread was about the celebration of MJ's life and the sadness of his passing, why is it you think it is okay to try and re-try him after a jury has already done so, and found him NOT GUILTY.

Crikey, I feel blessed that I lived in his lifetime. I grew up with his music and feel honoured that I was around when he was. He was a true music legend and will be sorely missed. His kids are so obviously well adjusted, loved, educated, etc, so what is the problem??

Nic99

07-10-2009, 03:45 PM

And you think MJ is naive? :lol:

This is the most naive post I ever saw.

moo

Oh right and of course the jury were naive as well, duhhh :rolleyes:

VC2

07-10-2009, 03:45 PM

Athena2, I love your posts but just wanted to say that Percocet and Vicodin have not been banned YET. It could possibly happen soon, but the FDA hasn't decided yet.

i really hope they handle it differently. Yes they are addictive narcotics as are all narcotics. The problem is not that, but the danger of what most are cut with.

I think they should simply remove acetominaphen from the pills. There is absolutely no reason it has to be in a narcotic, its like tylenol with codeine, the issue is not the codeine its all the carp they cut it with..acetominaphen and caffeine. If you need codeine then you don't need the extra caffeine. Buy tylenol seperately if an anti inflammatory is indicated too.

They are controlled substances for a reason, the fact they are narcotics. There is very little good justification for loading them up with enough other stuff that they will cause liver failure when the medication that you are actually taking does not.

imo

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 03:45 PM

Eh. I'm done for the day.

Have a wonderful sunny weekend everyone!

IMO,
Lilismom

You too Lilismom,

But I wish I would have a little less sun here in Arizona.:seeya:

KatieLady

07-10-2009, 03:46 PM

I thought this thread was about the celebration of MJ's life and the sadness of his passing, why is it you think it is okay to try and re-try him after a jury has already done so, and found him NOT GUILTY.

Crikey, I feel blessed that I lived in his lifetime. I grew up with his music and feel honoured that I was around when he was. He was a true music legend and will be sorely missed. His kids are so obviously well adjusted, loved, educated, etc, so what is the problem??

This is not a Memorial thread. It is the daily thread. If you want just post to honor him there is a thread for that.

IMO

Brattnt

07-10-2009, 03:46 PM

Jackson not guilty
Jurors acquit pop star of all molestation charges

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 Posted: 5:23 PM EDT

SANTA MARIA, California (CNN) -- A California jury has exonerated Michael Jackson of the child molestation, conspiracy and alcohol charges that could have sent him to prison for nearly 20 years.

The jury deliberated about 32 hours throughout the course of seven days before reaching its decision.

The clerk of court read the verdicts Monday in a packed courtroom while a large crowd of supporters waited outside. Jackson fans cheered, wept and hugged upon hearing the verdicts.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/13/jackson.trial/index.html

This case was 4 years ago...It is over...Can we please get back to discussing his death?....TIA!

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 03:47 PM

Joe needs to hush up first it was well they have kids to play with now and will go to school like they should and now this..he is going to end up ruining the chance of those kids living with KJ by his mouth moving..

Their grandmother -- Katherine -- and I" should raise them, he said. "Yes, there's no one else to do what we can do for them. We should keep them all together and then make them happy, feed 'em like they're supposed to be fed, and let them get rest, plenty of sleep and grow up to be strong Jacksons."

"I don't know -- I keep watching Paris," Joe Jackson said. "She … wants to do something." "And as far as I can see, well, they say Blanket, he can really dance," he added.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=8047192&page=1

Nic99

07-10-2009, 03:48 PM

This is not a Memorial thread. It is the daily thread. If you want just post to honor him there is a thread for that.

IMO

I don't want to just post my honour to him, I want to defend him too, against these untoward posts. I can post where I want. It is not a retrial post however, so...... that has already been tried by a US court of law and jury, accept it.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 03:48 PM

Oh right and of course the jury were naive as well, duhhh :rolleyes:

In a word, yes. They listened to the defense mumbo jumbo. jmo

Mamie

07-10-2009, 03:49 PM

very true. I have the tolerance of an elephant, drives my doctor nuts because he has seen it in action and has to prescribe what looks like a high amount for it to give me an effect. Always sighs and says "i have to clear all the red flags" as he waits for the scripts to print from the computer. Tylenol 3's i can eat like candy and the pain won't stop so i hate them, destroys the liver and does little pain relief. Demerol i have to take 2 of, one does nothing. My tolerance is due to a drug problem as a teen when i used the a"downers". Gah 30 years later and i still have the resistance.

Its also a problem for someone like MJ or anyone who ever had take a large amount for legitimate pain reasons in their life. Later on they can take far more, or need far more to get relief.

Others just have receptors that naturally tolerate the meds. In fact, if on anti depressants its my belief that tolerance can actually increase because you are changing the neural receptors behavior and even tho its not the opiate receptors, the 3 main neurochemicals all have a cascade effect

IMO

I don't know that I have the tolerance of an elephant but for about a year, I took 30mg per day of OxyContin and on the weekends I would increase it to 40mg per day because I wasn't going out of the house. I did this for my arthritis. I was told by someone that what I was taking was very habit forming and I should get off of it, but I think the dosage I was taking probably was not going to be a problem. Anyhow, the amount I took only took the edge off of the pain, it did not take the pain away. I had a horrible mattress so I took 20mg at bedtime and then the other 10mg when I got up in the morning (during the week so that I could work) but again, it only took the edge off the pain. I then started seeing a rheumatologist and haven't had OxyContin for I guess 9 months or so. I'm on prednisone and methotrexate for the pain and the pain is still there although not as bad as it would be if I took nothing. (Since the doctor is slowly taking me off of the prednisone which is a good thing, I wonder what I'm getting next.)

Anyhow I guess my point about writing is that I didn't become hooked on OxyContin in the year that I took it and I don't know if that low of a dosage would hook you or not. If anyone knows, I'd be delighted to find out. Oh, and I also had to fill out this special form with my doctor about monitoring my usage of OxyContin, too, before she would give me another prescription for it.

Nic99

07-10-2009, 03:50 PM

In a word, yes. They listened to the defense mumbo jumbo. jmo

Well that would apply to EVERY case in the US, so you sure have a problem then if you believe its all mumbo jumbo.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 03:51 PM

So some people have their facts wrong. The mother didn't go to a civil lawyer before they met MJ they went after the boy was with MJ:rolleyes:

It became clear as the morning wore on that the current case made its way to trial only after a circuitous journey. In early 2003, after a documentary featuring the boy holding Mr. Jackson's hand had been broadcast, the boy's mother spoke with the owner of a comedy club, Jamie Masada, who had befriended the family. Mr. Masada put her in touch with his lawyer, Bill Dickerman. Mr. Dickerman put her in touch with Mr. Feldman in exchange for a percentage of any money that Mr. Feldman might gain in a civil suit against the singer in connection with the boy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/31/national/31jackson.html?fta=y

KatieLady

07-10-2009, 03:52 PM

I don't want to just post my honour to him, I want to defend him too, against these untoward posts. I can post where I want. It is not a retrial post however, so...... that has already been tried by a US court of law and jury, accept it.

Seems to me that you are the one telling people what they can post RE: the post I quoted

.I don't need to accept it....I did a long time ago. However, people with opposing views have just as much right to post as you do.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 03:52 PM

Well that would apply to EVERY case in the US, so you sure have a problem then if you believe its all mumbo jumbo.

I'm just talking about this case and I believe it was all mumbo jumbo. jmo

Nic99

07-10-2009, 03:54 PM

Seems to me that you are the one telling people what they can post RE: the post I quoted

.I don't need to accept it....I did a long time ago. However, people with opposing views have just as much right to post as you do.

Glad you accepted it, lets move on then

KatieLady

07-10-2009, 03:55 PM

Glad you accepted it, lets move on then

Fine by me

Nic99

07-10-2009, 03:58 PM

I'm just talking about this case and I believe it was all mumbo jumbo. jmo

Oh right, so you believe it was ONLY this case was mumbo jumbo, every other case wasn't. I got ya lol....

Firehead11

07-10-2009, 03:59 PM

the "secret room" appears to be a "safe room", something not at all uncommon in higher income homes, especially in California.

Isn't it also called a "panic room"?

magnolia

07-10-2009, 04:00 PM

Oh right, so you believe it was ONLY this case was mumbo jumbo, every other case wasn't. I got ya lol....

So everyone who is found "not guilty" you just accept and AGREE with it???

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 04:01 PM

Which is even stranger is all the paintings that MJ had with children around him staring at him adoringly. That's just weird. There are plenty of people that love children but I don't see these things in their houses.

The fake children were kind of scary IMO.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 04:01 PM

Isn't it also called a "panic room"?

And it's also called a secret room as in MJ's case. jmo

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 04:03 PM

The court case was already adjudicated..and Not guilty was the verdict..it means Not proven beyond a reasonable doubt...It will never ever be proven since MJ is DEAD...so pleeze, I emplore you guys..move on to what issues are at hand NOW..like Drug abuse, Medical malpractices, and so on..COD hasnt even been pronouced yet, and Investigations are still on going...

Enough already!

LMS

I've been trying, but there are posters who won't let me. jmo

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 04:05 PM

magnolia

07-10-2009, 04:05 PM

Except that Michael Jackson was NOT a pedophile. Do you enjoy seeing innocent people arrested, and their lives and families destroyed by false allegations. I would hope not.

Your own words earlier:

"It never ceases to amaze me how a complete stranger, looking in from the outside, feels they are in a position to make this kind of judgment."

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 04:07 PM

Well I think I will just plant my big butt at home...I am afraid a certain someone may speak and I may boo alittle to loud..JMO

The Michael Jackson Gary memorial: 20,000 expected, family to attend, Karl Malden tribute included

Reverend Al Sharpton and Reverend Jesse Jackson are scheduled to attend as well as Jacksons’ father, Joe Jackson. The Times newspapers reported today that according to Mayor Clay, at least 30 members of the Jackson family will be there, but he didn’t specify which family members.
http://www.examiner.com/x-10998-Chicago-Family-Staycations-Examiner~y2009m7d9-City-of-Gary-announces-Michael-Jackson-memorial-details

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 04:07 PM

Your own words earlier:

"It never ceases to amaze me how a complete stranger, looking in from the outside, feels they are in a position to make this kind of judgment."

The jurys own words "Not Guilty"

Nic99

07-10-2009, 04:08 PM

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 04:09 PM

The painting of the Last Supper with MJ as God freaked me out. jmo

I gotta agree on that one..me to..but guess everyone has their own style

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 04:10 PM

Another painting that freaked me out when I saw it in the Bashir documentary was MJ standing with a flowing loin cloth and little boys with wings flying around him. jmo

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 04:14 PM

IMO He was so high half the time I am surprised he remembers anything about anything.

I bet the little boys remembered everything. jmo

Nic99

07-10-2009, 04:15 PM

IMO He was so high half the time I am surprised he remembers anything about anything.

What is your point here???

Firehead11

07-10-2009, 04:15 PM

I gotta agree on that one..me to..but guess everyone has their own style

Someone had that painted for Jackson, he did not commission it, iirc. I remembering posting about that years back.

Randy

07-10-2009, 04:16 PM

ScoobyDoo

07-10-2009, 04:17 PM

What rumors? I am allowed to post my opinion just like you are.

Oh sorry.. Did you make a new nic for the express purpose of sharing your void-of-fact opinions?

magnolia

07-10-2009, 04:17 PM

The jurys own words "Not Guilty"

Yes I know, but the way some people here rationalize, justify, white-wash, and excuse behavior makes me wonder about the jury. Wonder if the make-up of the jury was similar to the make-up of people here.

Nic99

07-10-2009, 04:19 PM

I like MJ's music and always did, especially his Off The Wall album---

BUT enough is enough----for pete sakes, he was a talented song and dance man, composer, famous entertainer----I was sorry to hear he OD'd as many other good talents, also have in the past---

Just proves to me, how nuts the world is becoming---MOO

Yeah, well unfortunately it isn't for some. They feed on this type of thing and it is so wrong. He should be celebrated for the legend he was and not be retried for the trial that has ALREADY happened. But, unfortunately some people can't move on.

Pretty Leaf

07-10-2009, 04:19 PM

magnolia

07-10-2009, 04:19 PM

Someone had that painted for Jackson, he did not commission it, iirc. I remembering posting about that years back.

So? (I expected a response like this?) Who hung it??? I guess someone else. Michael had all his decisions made for him - at least the bad/poor ones, huh?

ScoobyDoo

07-10-2009, 04:20 PM

Another painting that freaked me out when I saw it in the Bashir documentary was MJ standing with a flowing loin cloth and little boys with wings flying around him. jmo

Its called art. Do you think the statue of David is a clear indication that he was some kind of perv?

magnolia

07-10-2009, 04:21 PM

I like MJ's music and always did, especially his Off The Wall album---

BUT enough is enough----for pete sakes, he was a talented song and dance man, composer, famous entertainer----I was sorry to hear he OD'd as many other good talents, also have in the past---

Just proves to me, how nuts the world is becoming---MOO

I agree with this...I just wonder why some of his adoring fans can't accept the drug abuse. (It seems it's SOMEONE's fault.)

Nic99

07-10-2009, 04:22 PM

I agree with this...I just wonder why some of his adoring fans can't accept the drug abuse. (It seems it's SOMEONE's fault.)

Uhh, yes, perhaps because it was the Doctor's fault that was resident and SUPPOSEDLY caring/looking after him:rolleyes:

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 04:23 PM

I agree with this...I just wonder why some of his adoring fans can't accept the drug abuse. (It seems it's SOMEONE's fault.)

They see it the way they do ... just like you do.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 04:24 PM

repeat my post from before.

Katherine in Encino, Joe lives in LV. No way will he get his hands on the kids, he is not the guardian, Katherine is.

It's been reported he visits and stays at the Encino house from time to time. jmo He does spend time with his grandchildren as he has said. jmo

Nic99

07-10-2009, 04:25 PM

These are the same people who cry when someone they like is found guilty. Proof is all there that proves guilt, but they will ignore it because they are blinded by fame. Same here. He was found not guilty really doesn't mean he is. That wasn't a real trial. It was a circus.

Now we are all finding out just how bad MJ really was. Still some will keep the blinders on because he could sing and dance.

I will continue to believe what I believe and no one here using extra nics and pretending to live in the UK will change that.

:thumbdown: imo

LOL, I knew you would show your true colours soon enough....

magnolia

07-10-2009, 04:25 PM

Uhh, yes, perhaps because it was the Doctor's fault that was resident and SUPPOSEDLY caring/looking after him:rolleyes:

Yes I agree the doctors are partly responsible but so is Michael Jackson. Is that difficult to accept?

Firehead11

07-10-2009, 04:26 PM

So? (I expected a response like this?) Who hung it??? I guess someone else. Michael had all his decisions made for him - at least the bad/poor ones, huh?

Listen, IIRC a fan sent it to him. No need to post "I expected a response like this". I don't know who hung it. And since you seem to want to get catty with me, ignore will be my friend.

ScoobyDoo

07-10-2009, 04:26 PM

Not a fair question to ask of anyone.

The comment was about the masterful way defense lawyers can lie. Do you have an opinion about that or not?

Its not just defense lawyers who are masterful. Have you ever considered the virtually unlimited power and money available to prosecutors?

magnolia

07-10-2009, 04:27 PM

Listen, IIRC a fan sent it to him. No need to post "I expected a response like this". I don't know who hung it. And since you seem to want to get catty with me, ignore will be my friend.

But I did expect a post like that. :)

magnolia

07-10-2009, 04:27 PM

They see it the way they do ... just like you do.

Yes, I agree and get that. :)

ScoobyDoo

07-10-2009, 04:31 PM

I agree with this...I just wonder why some of his adoring fans can't accept the drug abuse. (It seems it's SOMEONE's fault.)

Perhaps you recall the death of John Belushi. In that case it was the woman who administered the drugs who was considered at fault for his death, and she went to prison for it.

Randy

07-10-2009, 04:31 PM

Yeah, well unfortunately it isn't for some. They feed on this type of thing and it is so wrong. He should be celebrated for the legend he was and not be retried for the trial that has ALREADY happened. But, unfortunately some people can't move on.--I was glad he was found "not guilty"---and truly believed he didn't deserve a life sentence or whatever---Whether he was guilty or not, I don't know---With his millions, I don't think he left anybody hanging in the the wind-------This is whole thing is like 'idol worship'---imo

magnolia

07-10-2009, 04:32 PM

Nic99

07-10-2009, 04:33 PM

Yes I agree the doctors are partly responsible but so is Michael Jackson. Is that difficult to accept?

Yes, TBH it is. MJ did not realise these drugs were as harmful as they were. There have been links provided here previously to show that. It is a Doctors job, imo, to be trusted and prescribe and care for the patient, and unfortunately, in this case, they didn't. So, it is the Doctors who should be held accountable. MJ did not realise how serious these drugs were and should never been allowed to be prescribed them in their dosages/cocktails that they were. He didn't want to die, and he wanted to be around for this children, that is a given, so, it is the Doctors mistake. Why do you think there was such a delay, they were trying to cover their mistakes imo...

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 04:33 PM

I'm out of here, finally I have learned enough to know when to go.

Too bad though, cause I really do learn some positive things here.

Later~

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 04:33 PM

There is a thread to sing the praises of MJ...this isn't it.

Please show us where in this thread it states no one can praise MJ

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 04:34 PM

I would like to know how long one has to take xanax before one can reach the level of needing them in the double digits to feel their effects.

you got to be very careful..some days I take 0 and some I may have to take 2 but have never took what I can because of what you just ask I have seen family members struggle with it I do not think he took 30 or 40 at some point and was now taking 10..40 at the 1 2 or 3 mg could kill ya or overdose mine are the lowest dose 0.5 and I have not had to up mine in 2 years..but I am very careful to some are not..I really think MJ had bi-polar no proof but watching him on that documentary he seems to have the highs and lows and the compulsive shopping and anxiety and depression and they handed him that and he had to keep taking more and more and more..my doctor told me to never lose my prescription because even if it fell over the railing into the ocean he would NOT write another one and CVS here is so strict you can get it 1 day before it is due to be refilled..

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 04:34 PM

I feel sorry for those boy mannequins because they can't talk who knows what abuse they went thru:crying:

Oh my gosh - the whole place looks like a messy garage sale. In pic 17 are those boy mannequins?

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 04:36 PM

I feel sorry for those boy mannequins because they can't talk who knows what abuse they went thru:crying:

Uncalled for remark and disgusting of you to imply this

ScoobyDoo

07-10-2009, 04:36 PM

Baited how? I resent that, truly. Some people see M Jackson for the freak that he was. Anyone who disagrees with you is baiting? :confused:

Its a shame you saw a freak, because you missed out. I saw a gentle man, with a pure heart, who lived for the purpose of healing the world, who held the record for his charitable contributions to less fortunate people around the world.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 04:37 PM

Did you start off with talking 4 a day?

try to remember that is media all I ever saw was syringes..and Xanax I am pres 4 a day as needed and it sure does not knock me out..only helps with anxiety attacks..and I have raised my children for the past 19 years just fine...it reacts different in everyone

magnolia

07-10-2009, 04:37 PM

Yes, TBH it is. MJ did not realise these drugs were as harmful as they were. There have been links provided here previously to show that. It is a Doctors job, imo, to be trusted and prescribe and care for the patient, and unfortunately, in this case, they didn't. So, it is the Doctors who should be held accountable. MJ did not realise how serious these drugs were and should never been allowed to be prescribed them in their dosages/cocktails that they were. He didn't want to die, and he wanted to be around for this children, that is a given, so, it is the Doctors mistake. Why do you think there was such a delay, they were trying to cover their mistakes imo...

Unbelievable...I believe MJ was doctor-shopping and I have no doubt he knew it was wrong and that he was addicted. Many loving, caring people in his life tried to stop him. But he refused.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 04:38 PM

Good one. That was funny. imo

Funny???? That was disgusting, not at all funny.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 04:39 PM

Its called art. Do you think the statue of David is a clear indication that he was some kind of perv?

Don't you wonder what the little boys thought when they looked up at that painting of their idol like that? I do. jmo

magnolia

07-10-2009, 04:39 PM

Its a shame you saw a freak, because you missed out. I saw a gentle man, with a pure heart, who lived for the purpose of healing the world, who held the record for his charitable contributions to less fortunate people around the world.

Hmmm...a pure heart? What's your definition of a pure heart?

Nic99

07-10-2009, 04:39 PM

Unbelievable...I believe MJ was doctor-shopping and I have no doubt he knew it was wrong and that he was addicted. Many loving, caring people in his life tried to stop him. But he refused.

Yeah well, you've missed the point here then. It is the DOCTORS who should have refused. That is their duty as Doctors, to care for their patients.

ScoobyDoo

07-10-2009, 04:41 PM

Hmmm...a pure heart? What's your definition of a pure heart?

My definition of "pure heart" is Michael Jackson.

ScoobyDoo

07-10-2009, 04:43 PM

Don't you wonder what the little boys thought when they looked up at that painting of their idol like that? I do. jmo

Actually I think they were all too busy playing and having an awesome time, that they had absolutely no interest in looking at art.

Nic99

07-10-2009, 04:43 PM

My definition of "pure heart" is Michael Jackson.

Too right imo:thumbsup:

kennedy06

07-10-2009, 04:44 PM

Yes, TBH it is. MJ did not realise these drugs were as harmful as they were. There have been links provided here previously to show that. It is a Doctors job, imo, to be trusted and prescribe and care for the patient, and unfortunately, in this case, they didn't. So, it is the Doctors who should be held accountable. MJ did not realise how serious these drugs were and should never been allowed to be prescribed them in their dosages/cocktails that they were. He didn't want to die, and he wanted to be around for this children, that is a given, so, it is the Doctors mistake. Why do you think there was such a delay, they were trying to cover their mistakes imo...

I would think a natural curiosity would lead him to at least wonder what he was using and to what level they were considered a serious drug.On most prescriptions here there is a print out of warnings about the drugs one is picking up, how to take it things like that. I would think he would have questioned their side effects and how it may affect him as a performer if nothing else. I agree the doctors should be held accountable.

Randy

07-10-2009, 04:44 PM

He's dead...was a great entertainer....was probably drug related.

That about says it all doesn't it????? Should we shut the board down until the tox reports come back?

There was MJ the entertainer...and MJ the man. I do not understand the unwillingness to discuss the two separately. Is it really impossible for some to separate?Agreed---great entertainer---I like the term "song and dance' man, myself---I'd like to know why the media has lost their marbles---

KatieLady

07-10-2009, 04:46 PM

Here is a link to a local (Los Angeles) radio station. It is an interview with Dr. Weict(sp)

I will tell you up front that they are not MJ fans but it is a very interesting interview with the Dr. The interview starts about the 1:43 mark

http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/mediaplayer/player.html?redir=yes&mps=kfijohnken.php&mid=http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/LOSANGELES-CA/KFI-AM/JK0709094P.mp3?CPROG=PCAST?CCOMRRMID&CPROG=RICHMEDIA&MARKET=LOSANGELES-CA&NG_FORMAT=talk&NG_ID=kfi640am&OR_NEWSFORMAT=&OWNER=&SERVER_NAME=www.kfiam640.com&SITE_ID=616&STATION_ID=KFI-AM&TRACK=

Edited to add: click on Jacko's brain

Nic99

07-10-2009, 04:48 PM

I would think a natural curiosity would lead him to at least wonder what he was using and to what level they were considered a serious drug.On most prescriptions here there is a print out of warnings about the drugs one is picking up, how to take it things like that. I would think he would have questioned their side effects and how it may affect him as a performer if nothing else. I agree the doctors should be held accountable.

Yeah maybe you're right, but a patient, in my experience, doesn't question what a Doctor will prescribe. You trust the Doctor, because that is what they are qualified in and don't question the side-effects, because you believe that the Doctor would not prescribe anything dangerous imo. Ultimately, it is the Doctor who should be held accountable, crikey the patient is usually too ill to even question imo.

ScoobyDoo

07-10-2009, 04:48 PM

[QUOTE=KatieLady;13271773]Here is a link to a local (Los Angeles) radio station. It is an interview with Dr. Weict(sp)

I will tell you up front that they are not MJ fans but it is a very interesting interview with the Dr. The interview starts about the 1:43 mark
QUOTE]

Katie.. Assuming on my part that you are somewhere close to my age, it might interest you that on 100.3 it is KMET day. They are playing tapes from the KMET era, with most of the discjockeys too. I am waiting for the fish report with a beat. I loved that.

KatieLady

07-10-2009, 04:50 PM

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 04:51 PM

MJ has been a drug addict for yrs. He chose not to stop and take his addiction to a much higher level. No Dr. forced him to go that route, they just helped him along because MJ COULD AFFORD IT.

Blame starts: MJ

imo

I do not think any of us know just what he dealt with and just why he had to start taking prescription meds..just like I said my doctor will not write a prescription out for any reason so doctors are who start it and then people become dependent on it...and in the average Joe they just cut the person off so they go and buy it from people..no one can say MJ wrote himself that first pain meds or anxiety meds..I am not even talking about that other stuff it should never have been in or near him..and he is to blame also but I have not walked in his shoes or had the pressure like he did so I can not say why he did not get help...but the tracking system was not working I guess lets just hope they get that fixed Oxycontin is killing our kids..I was shocked when I met some mothers on myspace that had memorials for their children..and some were even prescribed the stuff and it killed them ..Money should never buy you pills doctors should live up to their ethical code..IMO

magnolia

07-10-2009, 04:52 PM

My definition of "pure heart" is Michael Jackson.

Well that clears that up. Thanks for the details.

ScoobyDoo

07-10-2009, 04:54 PM

WOW! Thanks

If you go to that station online, they have a bunch of pictures too. I met Jim Ladd once, and he invited me to the station, and it was so cool. I was 17 and although I went to his house, he never touched me. I am still shocked by that. He gave me orange juice.

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 05:01 PM

Yeah maybe you're right, but a patient, in my experience, doesn't question what a Doctor will prescribe. You trust the Doctor, because that is what they are qualified in and don't question the side-effects, because you believe that the Doctor would not prescribe anything dangerous imo. Ultimately, it is the Doctor who should be held accountable, crikey the patient is usually too ill to even question imo.

ITA and the pharmacy should be tracking them so red flag goes up if it is something you should not be taking with another medication..I always ask and they get so mad and tell me if there was a problem it would let them know and they would let my doctor know..

I saw someone say they have all the warning on them most will not even look at them for one their doctor they trust they trust the pharmacy and most of it is scares people..should they read it I guess I don't because I ask in person..

Nic99

07-10-2009, 05:05 PM

ITA and the pharmacy should be tracking them so red flag goes up if it is something you should not be taking with another medication..I always ask and they get so mad and tell me if there was a problem it would let them know and they would let my doctor know..

I saw someone say they have all the warning on them most will not even look at them for one their doctor they trust they trust the pharmacy and most of it is scares people..should they read it I guess I don't because I ask in person..

I truly believe that the majority of people DON'T question what a Doctor prescribes and believe that it is in their best interest. Else, what is the point really in having Doctors, we could all prescribe for ourselves.....

~layla~

07-10-2009, 05:08 PM

And we all know CPS always gets it right:rolleyes:

yeah, aside from losing a few foster kids, giving back a few only to be killed by their parents within weeks/months of doing so, and generally just leaving them in the home that was reportedly bad in the first place.

but otherwise they always get it right!

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 05:08 PM

Yes, I have thought of ALL your reasons given. I have read the transcripts of the children and I believe that MJ did nothing wrong. Where are these children now? Not one has come forward. This was all the parents pushing for monetary gain and no more. MJ, I believe is an innocent man, as did the jury, no more, no less.

Do you really expect them to come forward now? Grown men? Do you realize what that would do to them? They may have never told anyone.

They probably have wives and kids by now. They probably never told their parents. Do you think they would want to be subjected to the media frenzy? Pedo's count on kids being so ashamed they keep their mouths shut.

The ones who told their parents were the ones whose parents came forward.

I can't believe you think MJ is innocent because no one else has come forward. This is not all about MJ just so you know.

jmo

magnolia

07-10-2009, 05:11 PM

Yeah maybe you're right, but a patient, in my experience, doesn't question what a Doctor will prescribe. You trust the Doctor, because that is what they are qualified in and don't question the side-effects, because you believe that the Doctor would not prescribe anything dangerous imo. Ultimately, it is the Doctor who should be held accountable, crikey the patient is usually too ill to even question imo.

It sounds like you give MJ a complete pass on his drug abuse. He's a victim, 100%? Give me a break. Now when the doctors said "Michael, tell me what current medications you're on?," do you think he pulled out the very long list and recited it to the doctor.

What do you think he told the next doctor?
Or the next?
Or the nurse?

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 05:12 PM

how do you know this?

where did you hear that it was called a "secret room"?

Don't you remember some detectives being interviewed on TV? I do. jmo

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 05:12 PM

ITA! I find it weird that they always told MJ the loved him everytime they saw him:confused: I understand you can love your children but that's overkill like he had to have his children say that like they were one of his fans. I have never seen children act like this around their parents constantly telling them they love them. And I find it weird that MJ kids didn't have friends of their own...what kind of childhood is that?

And so how can they possibly be normal? It amazes me how people think that because his daughter made a statement that she is so well adjusted. :confused:

Their father was an addict; they don't go to school; they go out wearing masks and veils. And how about saying "We love you, Daddy" every time they saw him. And now they're in the hands of the most dysfunctional family on earth. GMAB!

moo

Nic99

07-10-2009, 05:13 PM

[QUOTE=Tokyo Rose;13271838]Do you really expect them to come forward now? Grown men? Do you realize what that would do to them? They may have never told anyone.

They probably have wives and kids by now. They probably never told their parents. Do you think they would want to be subjected to the media frenzy? Pedo's count on kids being so ashamed they keep their mouths shut.

The ones who told their parents were the ones whose parents came forward.

I can't believe you think MJ is innocent because no one else has come forward. This is not all about MJ just so you know.

jmo[/QUOT

You believe what you want to believe. This went to trial and it was resolved, there is really nothing more to say.

Nic99

07-10-2009, 05:15 PM

LordMisRule

07-10-2009, 05:16 PM

I do not think any of us know just what he dealt with and just why he had to start taking prescription meds..just like I said my doctor will not write a prescription out for any reason so doctors are who start it and then people become dependent on it...and in the average Joe they just cut the person off so they go and buy it from people..no one can say MJ wrote himself that first pain meds or anxiety meds..I am not even talking about that other stuff it should never have been in or near him..and he is to blame also but I have not walked in his shoes or had the pressure like he did so I can not say why he did not get help...but the tracking system was not working I guess lets just hope they get that fixed Oxycontin is killing our kids..I was shocked when I met some mothers on myspace that had memorials for their children..and some were even prescribed the stuff and it killed them ..Money should never buy you pills doctors should live up to their ethical code..IMO

One of those specials they did on Michael Jackson following in days of his death stated that the prescription drug abuse started after he was hurt during the filming of the Pepsi commercial. Can't speculate about the anesthesia abuse, though.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 05:17 PM

Don't take my post out of context...:angry:

Did you or did you not post this is not the place to praise MJ?

Nic99

07-10-2009, 05:18 PM

MJ is the perpetual victim. :barf:

Give me a break...the man was as dumb as a fox. IMO

barfbarf same to you, for no apparent reason.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 05:19 PM

magnolia

07-10-2009, 05:20 PM

Why are the past accusations of Michael Jackson being a child molester important now?
What possible difference could it make? Nothing was ever legally proven and the accusations will have no bearings whatsoever on any potential custody disputes.

It's really a moot subject.
Bolding is mine...

Because he's being held up as a symbol of purity, without fault, an idol, a healer of the world, and almost god-like. He had no hand in his own demise and he was a perpetual victim. EVERYTHING is explained away; those of us who are not pure at heart don't understand his goodness and innocence.

All of the above it just a little hard to swallow sometimes and it's repeated and repeated. (Just as often as the negative is repeated.)

LordMisRule

07-10-2009, 05:20 PM

It sounds like you give MJ a complete pass on his drug abuse. He's a victim, 100%? Give me a break. Now when the doctors said "Michael, tell me what current medications you're on?," do you think he pulled out the very long list and recited it to the doctor.

What do you think he told the next doctor?
Or the next?
Or the nurse?

You are absolutely correct. I've known people who have multiple doctors. Their whole life revolves around shopping for doctors. Medical records on not public, so how is one doctor to know what another doctor prescribed you unless you volunteer that information? And frighteningly enough, there are many unethical doctors who will write a prescription for the right amount of money.

PBJMOM4

07-10-2009, 05:22 PM

Nic99

07-10-2009, 05:23 PM

Bolding is mine...

Because he's being held up as a symbol of purity, without fault, an idol, a healer of the world, and almost god-like. He had no hand in his own demise and he was a perpetual victim. EVERYONE is explained away; those of us who are not pure at heart don't understand his goodness and innocence.

All of the above it just a little hard to swallow sometimes and it's repeated and repeated. (Just as often as the negative is repeated.)

Maybe because he was. He was found not guilty by the people of the US and the very few minority on here wish to slander his name. Well, sorry you don't like it, but you are wrong, as has been proved by the court of law. So, you must live with that and move on....

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 05:23 PM

so the detectives, who were investigating for the prosecutor, who was building a case against MJ, called it a "secret room".

well gee, then it must be true. :sneaky:

What difference does it make if it was called a panic room, secret room, or whatever. MJ used it to keep secret things in his secret room. OK?
Why harp on a word. It's all the same thing. jmo

How do you know what those detectives saw in there anyway?

LordMisRule

07-10-2009, 05:25 PM

This question will seem O/T at the moment :laugh:
but what is Miko's relationship to MJ? Is Miko a friend, an employee or both? Did he have to sign a confidentiality agreement depending on his relationship to Jackson, and if so....do any of the employees confidentiality agreements still hold or are they null and void now that MJ passed?

I believe Miko (and somebody can correct me if I'm wrong), is Marlon Brando's son. Marlon Brando became a very good friend of Michael Jackson, and Miko also became close. Miko was even in the Thriller video. He stated that he was the guy sitting in the front row eating popcorn.

magnolia

07-10-2009, 05:25 PM

Maybe because he was. He was found not guilty by the people of the US and the very few minority on here wish to slander his name. Well, sorry you don't like it, but you are wrong, as has been proved by the court of law. So, you must live with that and move on....

And you're feelings on OJ???

magnolia

07-10-2009, 05:27 PM

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 05:29 PM

how did you determine that MJ's kids didn't have friends of their own?

For one Joe slipped up and said the kids were having a fine time playing with the other grandkids and he actually said it was the first time they got to play with other kids. No link. jmo

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 05:31 PM

Again....I believe he has molested children and I do not believe he should be celebrated like he was the second coming of Christ.

Where is the solid proof he molested children?

You actually think he was sexually aroused by children?

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 05:31 PM

what secret things did MJ keep in that room? Most people that have "safe rooms" use it like a "safe" for cash, documents, jewelry, etc., in addition to water and other things they may need in case of danger.

Please qualify your answer. Please tell us what secret things MJ kept in the secret room.

That information was never released that I know of. jmo

magnolia

07-10-2009, 05:33 PM

I must disagree.

The subject has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on what happens next in the Michael Jackson saga.

I thought we were talking about MJ, not lots and lots of other children. Are you making MJ the poster child to warn children and parents of the dangers of sexual abuse?

Again, I ask, what difference does it make?
Maybe Linda is not in a state of complacency?

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 05:35 PM

is that what I think it is? Man Boy Love Association or something like that..:thumbdown:

Yes, they believe sex with children is a natural thing. You'd have to google it to get more information. jmo

PBJMOM4

07-10-2009, 05:35 PM

I believe Miko (and somebody can correct me if I'm wrong), is Marlon Brando's son. Marlon Brando became a very good friend of Michael Jackson, and Miko also became close. Miko was even in the Thriller video. He stated that he was the guy sitting in the front row eating popcorn.

Thanks.
I was wondering why he is on CNN so often yet didn't say too much of anything and I found that odd considering he has been around MJ for so long. Was thinking he must be sticking to his confidentiality agreement. {if he had signed one}

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 05:35 PM

I believe Miko (and somebody can correct me if I'm wrong), is Marlon Brando's son. Marlon Brando became a very good friend of Michael Jackson, and Miko also became close. Miko was even in the Thriller video. He stated that he was the guy sitting in the front row eating popcorn.

and IIRC he helped with security on tours..and is he not the kids godfather? or MJ is his kids godfather and he married at Neverland.could be wrong but thought he said that the other night

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 05:37 PM

so today you believe everything Joe says.

uhmmm...mmmkay.

I answered your question. You don't want me to? What exactly do you want from me? Just asking.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 05:37 PM

I think I've made myself quite clear on the topic.

I have not seen one link posted by you that shows proof that MJ was a child molester.
The only proof I have seen was the jury finding him not guilty

flipflop

07-10-2009, 05:38 PM

This is being followed on CNN/Wolf Blistzer right now..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jul/10/michael-jackson-death

Michael Jackson death: Murder not ruled out, says LA police chiefPolice chief says that findings from toxicology tests will determine whether Jackson's death becomes a criminal case

LMS

Wow. 10 Xanax a day? Tolerance or not, wouldn't that kill someone?

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 05:38 PM

Yeah and they all never seen MJ take drugs and that he was healthy :rolleyes: Now they are kind of telling the truth because I don't think MJ was popping the pills in front of his friends and these friends weren't with him 24/7 either.

Sorry but, I will rely on the vast many who have spoken out that really knew these children and really knew their father.

All of them have had nothing but the highest praises for how well adjusted these three children are and what a wonderful daddy they had.

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 05:38 PM

Thanks.
I was wondering why he is on CNN so often yet didn't say too much of anything and I found that odd considering he has been around MJ for so long. Was thinking he must be sticking to his confidentiality agreement. {if he had signed one}

No I see a friend in him actually...he did not like everyone talking about stuff before the tox even comes back..can people not just be friends and it be real?

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 05:40 PM

so in other words, you are making claims that cannot be substantiated?

you are saying that Michael kept secret things in a secret room, but since the information was never release (that you know of), you really don't know what you are talking about, do you?

What do you mean by qualified? I have an opinion and that's that. I always know what I'm talking about. The question right now is do you or are you just baiting me?

I believe your last three posts to me have been nothing but baiting. jmo

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 05:40 PM

Wow. 10 Xanax a day? Tolerance or not, wouldn't that kill someone?

I just looked it up no not alone but mixing yes..it could

flipflop

07-10-2009, 05:43 PM

I just looked it up no not alone but mixing yes..it could

That just seemed like a lot to be taking at once. I assume all at one time since it said 10 Xanax at night.

LordMisRule

07-10-2009, 05:43 PM

Thanks.
I was wondering why he is on CNN so often yet didn't say too much of anything and I found that odd considering he has been around MJ for so long. Was thinking he must be sticking to his confidentiality agreement. {if he had signed one}

You know, I think because his own father was such an iconic figure in the celebrity world, Miko probably is reluctant to let out any so called dirt. I do not know what role he played in Michael Jackson's life after the trial, so it might be that he has nothing to contribute in that area. Whenever I see him on tv, he's always recounting stories from Michael Jackson's hey days, nothing about MJ's life after Neverland. Yes, as somebody mentioned in another post, he did serve on MJ's security team, but for how long and when, not sure. Probably during the peak of MJ's popularity.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 05:44 PM

Thankgod for the nannies! IMO if it wasn't for them who knows what would have happened to them if the were just under MJ's care! IMO

Why? These children are very healthy and it is obvious that they had been taken care of very well.

imo

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 05:45 PM

Every time I hear that I want to barf! There is nothing beautiful about sharing your bed and the way his eyes lit up when he said it just gave me the creeps. IMO

Martin Bashir: Is it appropriate for a 44 year old man to have children sleep in his bed? Children who are not related to him?

Michael Jackson: It's a beautiful thing.

:rose:

LordMisRule

07-10-2009, 05:47 PM

and IIRC he helped with security on tours..and is he not the kids godfather? or MJ is his kids godfather and he married at Neverland.could be wrong but thought he said that the other night

The two oldest children's godfather is Macauley Culkin. Blanket's godfather is Al Malnik. Mark Lester is also named as godfather, but I don't know to who. I don't remember reading if MJ named anybody else as godparents. Most likely he did, though.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 05:49 PM

I agree the docs need to be held responsible to the fullest!

That goes without saying really, as he paid the ultimate price for utilizing such risky treatments..and I dont think for one minute he wasnt advised or told..so he does bear some responsibility..but its moot now..but as a Healthcare Professional, I am ashamed that money would corrupt medical professionals to break their Hippocratic Oath..First do no harm!! Thats simply has to stop, and these enabler Medical people have to made an example of to deter such in the future.

OT..Maybe ANS trials of the Doctors (and HKS) will be the start for this precident.

LMS

magnolia

07-10-2009, 05:49 PM

You know, I think because his own father was such an iconic figure in the celebrity world, Miko probably is reluctant to let out any so called dirt. I do not know what role he played in Michael Jackson's life after the trial, so it might be that he has nothing to contribute in that area. Whenever I see him on tv, he's always recounting stories from Michael Jackson's hey days, nothing about MJ's life after Neverland. Yes, as somebody mentioned in another post, he did serve on MJ's security team, but for how long and when, not sure. Probably during the peak of MJ's popularity.

And apparently there's speculation that Miko is the biological father of blanket. Interesting thought as Michael once called Miko's father, Marlon, "a god." Marlon was no one to be thought of as godlike. I guess Marlon could have been the sperm donor also. Who knows?

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 05:50 PM

you can believe what you like; however, didn't you state that MJ kept secret things in the secret room?

are you now saying that is just an opinion? or do you know for a fact that MJ kept secret things in the secret room.

which is it?

Why are you so upset? Calm down. Maybe you should take a nap. jmo

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 05:50 PM

and IIRC he helped with security on tours..and is he not the kids godfather? or MJ is his kids godfather and he married at Neverland.could be wrong but thought he said that the other night

Birth Name
Miko Castaneda Brando

Spouse
Karen Brando (? - ?)

Trivia
Son of Marlon Brando and Movita.

Long-time bodyguard for Michael Jackson.

Is a good friend of Jon Lovitz

Nephew of Jocelyn Brando.

Grandson of Marlon Brando Sr..

Brother of Rebecca Brando.

Father of Prudence Brando and Shane Brando.

Half brother of Teihotu Brando and Christian Brando aka Gary Brown.

Was at a Dodger game with Jon Lovitz and daughter Prudence when his father, Marlon Brando passed away.

At the invitation of Michael Jackson, Miko married his wife Karen at the Neverland Ranch.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1446623/bio

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 05:50 PM

:ohmy:ET can confirm that police were called to the L.A. office of Michael Jackson's former dermatologist on Friday afternoon.

Police arrived at Arnold Klein's office at noon to investigate "suspicious phone calls" received there. We're told the calls were not necessarily threatening in nature, and an investigation into the incident is currently underway.

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/07/76291/

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 05:52 PM

I don't feel sorry for him at all he knew what could happen if he kept on this path he was on. I do feel for his kids for their father for being selfish. It's funny how everyone wants to point blame at all these docs which they all should be punished but MJ is also to blame why he is dead. IMO

So what punishment would you give him for blaming him? Death? I think it is a little late for blame.

imo

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 05:52 PM

And apparently there's speculation that Miko is the biological father of blanket. Interesting thought as Michael once called Miko's father, Marlon, "a god." Marlon was no one to be thought of as godlike. I guess Marlon could have been the sperm donor also. Who knows?

"A god" refering to the acting roles Marlon played
That is what was fully stated during the interview

LordMisRule

07-10-2009, 05:53 PM

And apparently there's speculation that Miko is the biological father of blanket. Interesting thought as Michael once called Miko's father, Marlon, "a god." Marlon was no one to be thought of as godlike. I guess Marlon could have been the sperm donor also. Who knows?

There is so much speculation going around that I think it would be easier to list who could not possibly be the biological father of any of MJ's kids. :wink:

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 05:56 PM

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 05:56 PM

Guess some people believe pedophiles always wear a tattered trench coat, have a scar on their face, never do a decent thing in their life and carry a roll of duct tape & pocket full of candy? Can you please post a link where MJ was found guilty of being a pedophile

TIA

MoonHarvest

07-10-2009, 05:57 PM

magnolia

07-10-2009, 05:58 PM

"A god" refering to the acting roles Marlon played
That is what was fully stated during the interview
Really, where?

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 06:01 PM

Well that does make sense with someone that has a drug abuse history that they would have to take more to do anything to them...I was never a drug addict so that's why one Xanax will kick my butt.

very true. I have the tolerance of an elephant, drives my doctor nuts because he has seen it in action and has to prescribe what looks like a high amount for it to give me an effect. Always sighs and says "i have to clear all the red flags" as he waits for the scripts to print from the computer. Tylenol 3's i can eat like candy and the pain won't stop so i hate them, destroys the liver and does little pain relief. Demerol i have to take 2 of, one does nothing. My tolerance is due to a drug problem as a teen when i used the a"downers". Gah 30 years later and i still have the resistance.

Its also a problem for someone like MJ or anyone who ever had take a large amount for legitimate pain reasons in their life. Later on they can take far more, or need far more to get relief.

Others just have receptors that naturally tolerate the meds. In fact, if on anti depressants its my belief that tolerance can actually increase because you are changing the neural receptors behavior and even tho its not the opiate receptors, the 3 main neurochemicals all have a cascade effect

IMO

magnolia

07-10-2009, 06:03 PM

Guess some people believe pedophiles always wear a tattered trench coat, have a scar on their face, never do a decent thing in their life and carry a roll of duct tape & pocket full of candy?

You forgot the missing puppy, lol.:laugh:

(Quite the picture you painted.)

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 06:03 PM

I'm not upset.

And I don't need a nap.

So, your absence of a response tells me that it is just your opinion that MJ kept "secret" things in a "secret" room, is that correct?

He had a secret room. You decided you wanted to call it a safe room. In a secret room secret things are kept. There was an alarm for the secret room in a cabinet outside the room. There were three more locks on the secret room door to unlock it from outside of the room. Normally safe rooms have locks inside to keep people from getting in once someone encloses themselves inside for safety. This room didn't have that. All this was on the LKL show. Now watch carefully JMO.

I have made myself clear. I don't take well to being interrogated by a message board poster who is doning nothing more than baiting me. JMO JMO JMO JMO

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 06:05 PM

Really, where?

On Oprah when Michael was discussing his video :"You Rock My World"
Marlon was in that video. Oprah asked Michael why he chose Marlon to be in that video

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 06:07 PM

If course Joe would say that he needs to try to protect MJ's image because now we know how much of a drug abuser he was. MJ put drugs before his children which is common for drug addicts to do. IMO If MJ truly loved his children he would have gotten help and now it's coming out he didn't want it.

sorry if already posted

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=8047192&page=1
EXCLUSIVE: Jackson Patriarch Fears 'Foul Play' in Michael Jackson Death
For more on the Joe Jackson exclusive interview tune into a special edition of "Primetime: Family Secrets"-- "The Jackson Family: Life After Michael", Tuesday, July 14,

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 06:08 PM

------------

this sounds like baiting to me.
jmo

Thank you.

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 06:09 PM

Is ENGLISH your first language? I have consistantly stated time and time again... "I believe", "I think" and "In my opinion" he was a pedophile. No LINK NECESSARY!

Got it?

The post I was refering to, you did not say.... "I believe", "I think" and "In my opinion"

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 06:09 PM

Is ENGLISH your first language? I have consistantly stated time and time again... "I believe", "I think" and "In my opinion" he was a pedophile. No LINK NECESSARY!

Got it?

Seems to be an epidemic of this going around. jmo

Pretty Leaf

07-10-2009, 06:09 PM

I agree. Having to tell him they love him every time they see him. They were isolated from other kids. Just too weird. jmo

I haven't heard where they HAD to tell him they loved him every time they saw him. Perhaps the other way around, he used that phrase alot with his fans.

Perhaps more parents should tell their kids and visa vera that they love them. perhaps it would make the world a better place like he sang.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 06:15 PM

Yeah well, you've missed the point here then. It is the DOCTORS who should have refused. That is their duty as Doctors, to care for their patients.

It is their duty, unfortunately money talks to some. IMO MJ knew that and got whatever he wanted. No one made him take the drugs, or injections, or IV's. Maybe now with ANS and MJ , these Dr.'s will think twice. They sure spend a lot of money, and time to get their medical licenses. I can't believe some of these people will just throw it away.

Pretty Leaf

07-10-2009, 06:16 PM

You are absolutely correct. I've known people who have multiple doctors. Their whole life revolves around shopping for doctors. Medical records on not public, so how is one doctor to know what another doctor prescribed you unless you volunteer that information? And frighteningly enough, there are many unethical doctors who will write a prescription for the right amount of money.

For those who have medical insurance an insurance company will not pay for double prescriptions from one doctor to another. That's were the normal red flag go off.

With those like MJ who do not have an insurance plan then doctor shopping would work. However it seems in this case it would not matter how many scripts he got from whom because apparantley they were never in his name anyways, so that is virtually impossible to track.

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 06:16 PM

The two oldest children's godfather is Macauley Culkin. Blanket's godfather is Al Malnik. Mark Lester is also named as godfather, but I don't know to who. I don't remember reading if MJ named anybody else as godparents. Most likely he did, though.

thanks for letting me know I guess MJ is Mikos daughter Prudence, godfather

guess he had several Godfathers..
LOS ANGELES -- He was with Michael Jackson the night before his death and is godfather to his children

"Quincy Jones introduced us at the Del Coronado hotel in San Diego," he explained. "We got along right away and he asked me for my number and we started talking every day. In 1984, when he left on the Victory Tour, he asked me to follow along."

Brando became Jackson's right-hand man, his assistant, his confidante, his bodyguard and his chauffeur.

http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/2009/07/01/9991936-sun.html

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 06:21 PM

It didn't look like storage to me...who stores a fully made bed and has a phone in their storage room???

I think it was termed "secret" because the panel to enter into it was camouflaged so you couldn't tell it was there.

Sounds more like a "safe room" if it has a bed and phone in it

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 06:27 PM

It didn't look like storage to me...who stores a fully made bed and has a phone in their storage room???

I think it was termed "secret" because the panel to enter into it was camouflaged so you couldn't tell it was there.

Who has a zoo and an amusement park in their backyard? We're not talking about "who" - we're talking about MJ. I didn't see anything kinky in those photos.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 06:28 PM

I guess I'll ask this one more time, but this time with a preface:

Personally, I believe that Michael Jackson was an idiot when it come to the position he placed himself in with children not his own. It showed poor judgment, lack of foresight and extreme immaturity about the real world.

That said, I don't personally believe that he molested anyone.

For those of you that do believe that he molested children, again I ask how is that relevant to any potential custody proceedings that may come up and, considering the fact that he was never found criminally guilty or civilly liable for such acts, what difference does it make?

Add to that the fact that he's dead, what difference does it make? He's hardly a danger to anyone at this point.

jewel6

07-10-2009, 06:29 PM

Wow i thought michael had house keepers. That was awful looking. jmo

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 06:32 PM

exactly.

and since he was never found criminally guilty or civilly liable for child molestation, bodily harm, etc., none of this will make any difference whatsoever IF someone challenges Katharine Jackson's guardianship and custody.

IMO, the only factors in a potential custody hearing are the legal parentage (note that: legal, not biological) of the children and KJ's age.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 06:33 PM

I'm sure it came with the house. I have no idea what he did or didn't do in that room..

None of us do. So the relevance is..........?

magnolia

07-10-2009, 06:36 PM

and what difference does any of what you believe make now in the current MJ saga????

Who said what ANY of us thinks makes a difference in the MJ saga? No one. And what you think or question makes no difference either.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 06:37 PM

I beleieve there were two...one had a "secret staircase" leading up to another "secret" bedroom

I didn't see all of the Larry King interview but I saw the Matt Lauer interview. The "secret room" in the closet was barely large enough to hold a cot, never mind a bed. The staircase was completely visibile. Nothing "secret" about it. The master suite was 2 stories.

And again, I fail to see the relevance.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 06:38 PM

I didn't see anything kinky either.

I do find SEVEN LOCKS and DOOR ALARMS and DRUGS laying out in his bedroom problematic.

So maybe he was paranoid. Or maybe he liked his privacy. The drugs, yes, that's problematic.

JHP

07-10-2009, 06:39 PM

I guess I'll ask this one more time, but this time with a preface:

Personally, I believe that Michael Jackson was an idiot when it come to the position he placed himself in with children not his own. It showed poor judgment, lack of foresight and extreme immaturity about the real world.

That said, I don't personally believe that he molested anyone.

For those of you that do believe that he molested children, again I ask how is that relevant to any potential custody proceedings that may come up and, considering the fact that he was never found criminally guilty or civilly liable for such acts, what difference does it make?

What I think is important is that whoever gets custody of the children makes sure they get proper counseling. The 3 children have seen alot, I hope they have had consistent care other then their father so it's as smooth a transistion as can be.

Whether or not they were molested, the lifestyle they led was unconventional to say the least.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 06:40 PM

The only people I feel bad is for his kids not MJ he choose to load up on 30-40 pills a day he choose his path he had the money to get help. I also feel for people that are drug addicts that want help but don't have the money to get the right help.And I also think it was selfish for MJ to ask his employees to get prescriptions for him in their name! They can get in trouble for that and he didn't care! IMO And you know if they said no he would have fired them.IMO

I thought this thread was about the celebration of MJ's life and the sadness of his passing, why is it you think it is okay to try and re-try him after a jury has already done so, and found him NOT GUILTY.

Crikey, I feel blessed that I lived in his lifetime. I grew up with his music and feel honoured that I was around when he was. He was a true music legend and will be sorely missed. His kids are so obviously well adjusted, loved, educated, etc, so what is the problem??

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 06:41 PM

I beleieve there were two...one had a "secret staircase" leading up to another "secret" bedroom

I remember an interview with police and I will search for that where it was stated there was a secret room with dolls on each step leading to a secret room. So obviously there must have been two. jmo

magnolia

07-10-2009, 06:42 PM

if it makes no difference, then why do you keep blasting away?

if you believe Michael was a child molester, fine, but I have to say it looks like most of the people here are more interested in talking about current MJ news (of which there is plenty) then something that happened over a decade ago.

You need to reread what you THINK you've read. I'm not blasting away at MJ being a pedophile.

What I DO post is what I WANT to post. It's not up to you what I post, what I think, or who I post my thoughts to. Sorry, you can't control that.

Ice Cycle

07-10-2009, 06:45 PM

Well I was hear this morning and expected to come back to see this closed due to the the trail rehash but evidently not.
As far as the house looking messy or trashed, that is how I have read that LE leaves it after a raid, I doubt very serious it looked
that way before or shortly after either. It is kind of ridiculous to say that he did not have a house keeper, given his still large income.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 06:45 PM

Don't know?:confused: There was bantering back and forth about the secret room so I googled it. Just trying to be helpful:)

Fair enough. :) I'll be helpful too. Here's the link to the Matt Lauer tour of Neverland, including the secret room.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31709057/ns/entertainment-gossip/

The master suite starts at about 4 minutes.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 06:48 PM

If he was paranoid...why not have alarms & locks on his children's bedroom doors? Ya know..cause he loves them so much ...or make sure they too were sleeping with daddy to keep them safe.

If he wanted "alone time" and privacy...why bed down with other people's children at all?

To respond to your first point, I didn't see video of the children's bedrooms - for all I know, they had the same setup.

As for your second point, that has been discussed ad nauseum, IMHO. Perhaps a different question would be why the children's parents allowed it?

legalmania

07-10-2009, 06:49 PM

None of us do. So the relevance is..........?

Not to mention he hasn't lived there in years. Anyone could have come in there and changed things around.

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 06:49 PM

I think this is wrong I do not care what anyone thinks about MJ no elected official needs to continue this crap...and he is a Republican OFGS I think I will become a Democrat..:cursing:

Republican to fight Jackson honour

Texas Democrat Sheila Jackson Lee represented Congress and the U.S. Black Caucus at the Jackson memorial on Tuesday and announced she'd be spearheading a motion at the U.S. House of Representatives to declare the late star "an American legend and musical icon (and) a world humanitarian".

Lee also showed off a framed copy of the resolution, which will be debated.

But Republican Peter King, who dubbed Jackson a "pervert, child molester, paedophile" in a recent interview, insists he plans to oppose the resolution, stating he'll do "whatever I have to do".

I hope he gets his A$$ sued,,MJ was found NG he should keep his opinion to himself this shows me it had NOTHING TO DO WITH TO MUCH COVERAGE IT WAS A HATE CAMPAIGN AGAISNT MJ...JMO..:angry:

http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/2009/07/09/10071006-wenn-story.html

JHP

07-10-2009, 06:49 PM

IMO, the only factors in a potential custody hearing are the legal parentage (note that: legal, not biological) of the children and KJ's age.

Hi Cardinal, I totally agree. we must keep in mind when the will was written Michaels mom was 72, and Diana Ross was 58. Things do change. I wonder what Michaels thought was. Perhaps it was discussed with his advisors.

Nice to see you!

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 06:49 PM

if it makes no difference, then why do you keep blasting away?

if you believe Michael was a child molester, fine, but I have to say it looks like most of the people here are more interested in talking about current MJ news (of which there is plenty) then something that happened over a decade ago.

You were blasting away at me for how many posts over the secret room?
Five or six, I haven't counted them. Now all of a sudden you're not interested? I don't get it. jmo

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 06:51 PM

you know, if you saw the Larry King interview with Jermaine last week, there doesn't appear to be any way that the "secret" room accessible from the closet was big enough to hold the furniture that is in the "EXTRA" "secret room" photos.

Oh it wasn't an alarm in the cabinet, it was another lock. Sorry.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 06:52 PM

Hi Cardinal, I totally agree. we must keep in mind when the will was written Michaels mom was 72, and Diana Ross was 58. Things do change. I wonder what Michaels thought was. Perhaps it was discussed with his advisors.

Nice to see you!

Nice to see you too, JHP! It has been a while. :)

I think Michael loved his mom and trusted her to raise his children. I think Diana Ross was a bit of nostalgia, coupled with respect for her.

I have some serious concerns about the outcome of a potential custody battle.

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 06:53 PM

SHANGHAI (Reuters) – Chinese developers are commemorating the late Michael Jackson by building a scaled-down replica of his Neverland Ranch on an island off Shanghai, a state-run newspaper said on Friday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090710/en_nm/us_jackson_shanghai_3

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 06:54 PM

Yup that was another weird one...what does that have to do with not having a childhood I'll never know.

Another painting that freaked me out when I saw it in the Bashir documentary was MJ standing with a flowing loin cloth and little boys with wings flying around him. jmo

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 06:55 PM

The same reason parents allow the children to attend sleepovers with the coach, or scout leader or allow their child lots of alone time with their parish priest...TRUST

IMO

Even AFTER the Chandler allegations??? Hardly. Sorry.

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 06:56 PM

Why not start a whole new thread for people that want to rehash the trial and accusations over and over and over again?

I am getting very sick of it also..this is crazy..it is the same stuff over and over I did not know this was about the trial that was several years ago..I really think we should suggest a thread for that because alot of posters are sick of not talking about the topic at hand..JMO

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 06:56 PM

Where is your link? Who painted it?

Someone had that painted for Jackson, he did not commission it, iirc. I remembering posting about that years back.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 06:59 PM

Peter King is my new hero:wub:

Your new hero is someone who defames a dead man who was acquitted by the justice system? Interesting.

JHP

07-10-2009, 06:59 PM

Nice to see you too, JHP! It has been a while. :)

I think Michael loved his mom and trusted her to raise his children. I think Diana Ross was a bit of nostalgia, coupled with respect for her.

I have some serious concerns about the outcome of a potential custody battle.

I do too! I hope that there is not a custody battle at all.
In my own personal will I listed my mother first, because I had several people I could choose from. I thought she could evaluate the situation at the time. And then go from there.

I had wondered if that was Michaels thinking because he did have so many siblings. Hopefully he did discuss this with her. My personal favorite is Jermaine but thats just me.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 07:00 PM

The better question is why would MJ continue to bed boys after the 2 million he paid to the maid, the 20 million to JC ...got out of that one by the skin of his teeth IMO

You want me to believe he was the village idiot?

Because their parents allowed it?

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 07:00 PM

Peter King is my new hero:wub:

He's my hero too. Maybe I'll become a Republican.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 07:02 PM

I do too! I hope that there is not a custody battle at all.
In my own personal will I listed my mother first, because I had several people I could choose from. I thought she could evaluate the situation at the time. And then go from there.

I had wondered if that was Michaels thinking because he did have so many siblings. Hopefully he did discuss this with her. My personal favorite is Jermaine but thats just me.

I've been really touched by what I've seen of Jermaine throughout the aftermath of MJ's death. I think he truly loved his brother.

But I was also touched by Janet with Paris, at this memorial. All in all, I think the Jackson family, sans Joe, is the best for those children.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 07:02 PM

If I was an accused pedophile I wouldn't be hang pics of kids all over my house nor would I have paintings of me with kids adoring me it just adds fuel to the fire. Just like MJ didn't learn his lesson for the first accuser and kept sharing his bed with kids innocent or not it just opens the door to trouble. If MJ wanted to have kids spend the night in his room then the parents should have been there or he shouldn't have had them in there that's where he messed up.

Its called art. Do you think the statue of David is a clear indication that he was some kind of perv?

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 07:03 PM

What's even sadder is that he probably knows absolutely NOTHING about MJ except what he's heard on the media in recent days and we know what the coverage has been. :angry: JMO

I am about over it really..I know we all have our opinions and then people like this guy who people vote in I am at a lose of words it is a hate campaign no one will make me think anything else does anyone really think they want to show our troops being killed over there HECK NO THEY DO NOT..it was the TOT-MOM JON AND KATE AND OCTOMOM before this is that news ???nope not in my opinion..this at least is bringing up the fact of these drugs killing people and doctors being the yes man..not if octomom got a new piggy as a pet

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 07:04 PM

I am getting very sick of it also..this is crazy..it is the same stuff over and over I did not know this was about the trial that was several years ago..I really think we should suggest a thread for that because alot of posters are sick of not talking about the topic at hand..JMO

Report to moderator works, and what is most disgusting in all of this, is a lot of us want to keep the forum/threads going, so we leave for the board bullies to discuss the old trial, pedophile, molestor-- !

I have clicked on who has posted on this thread and it is very telling who the top 2 happen to be-- that dominate the topic of the old trial.
Well-- then I look at how many keep repsonding to them to keep the attention on their topic. Ignore- Skip - Scroll- and report works.

I am hoping you, Athena, Gentle Breeze, LyndawithaY, and many others jump back on board here. :)

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 07:04 PM

you stated that there were "secret things" in the "secret room" because "that's what the detectives said".

then you said the information was never released.

then you said it was your opinion.

now it turns out that the "secret things" and "secret room" were not that much of a secret afterall.

You're right. You don't get it.

Oh please. I should of just googled it and so should have you. jmo

Turns out there were two secret rooms. I didn't realize that. My bad.

jmo

VC2

07-10-2009, 07:05 PM

I guess I'll ask this one more time, but this time with a preface:

Personally, I believe that Michael Jackson was an idiot when it come to the position he placed himself in with children not his own. It showed poor judgment, lack of foresight and extreme immaturity about the real world.

That said, I don't personally believe that he molested anyone.

For those of you that do believe that he molested children, again I ask how is that relevant to any potential custody proceedings that may come up and, considering the fact that he was never found criminally guilty or civilly liable for such acts, what difference does it make?

BRAVO!!! i am in agreement with your preface and your question.

Most of us who are defending him in no way think what he did was smart, but that has nothing to do with the fact i believe he never molested anyone

IMO

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 07:06 PM

I'm with you all the way! Look at the OJ case it was put on poorly and OJ's defense lawyers made witnesses look like liars. We all know OJ did it but he was also found not guilty. I'm glad he is locked up now for steeling his own stuff I find that ironic!

These are the same people who cry when someone they like is found guilty. Proof is all there that proves guilt, but they will ignore it because they are blinded by fame. Same here. He was found not guilty really doesn't mean he is. That wasn't a real trial. It was a circus.

Now we are all finding out just how bad MJ really was. Still some will keep the blinders on because he could sing and dance.

I will continue to believe what I believe and no one here using extra nics and pretending to live in the UK will change that.

:thumbdown: imo

jaxback

07-10-2009, 07:06 PM

What's even sadder is that he probably knows absolutely NOTHING about MJ except what he's heard on the media in recent days and we know what the coverage has been. :angry: JMO

What is saddest of all is that anyone in the Congress is spending any time at all debating anything about an entertainer, ANY ENTERTAINER. Honor, don't honor, he's this, he's that - they should all shut up about it and concentrate on POLITICAL ISSUES! FGS, have they not noticed that there might be a FEW more pressing national problems to focus on, to debate, to vote on? No wonder we're in such a pathetic mess! :angry: jmo

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 07:07 PM

What is saddest of all is that anyone in the Congress is spending any time at all debating anything about an entertainer, ANY ENTERTAINER. Honor, don't honor, he's this, he's that - they should all shut up about it and concentrate on POLITICAL ISSUES! FGS, have they not noticed that there might be a FEW more pressing national problems to focus on, to debate, to vote on? No wonder we're in such a pathetic mess! :angry: jmo

Applause, applause. LOL

legalmania

07-10-2009, 07:09 PM

Peter King is my new hero:wub:

What is he doing to stop the pedophiles who are out on the streets still molesting and killing our children, if all this guy can do is run his mouth after somebody is dead so they can't defend himself, I call him a coward. I think he should be voted out asap.

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 07:10 PM

There is a custody thread.

There is a memorial thread

Why do you and others want to dictate the topic and control the discussion?

Peter King, an elected official made it on current news with his opinion of MJ and YOU posted it.

*cough cough*

You happen to be the #1 poster here... aka leader of the pack with most posts today dictating this thread, so I hardly see where you can accuse anyone else of the number one position you - yourself are holding right now!!

You can't discuss anything other than a pedophile and the old trial, which we have been warned about, however you find yourself to be above what the moderator here has ask from us.

You have been here all day long with repeating the same ole same ole mantra of yours. :)

Here's a newsflash for ya ... okay..................

MICHAEL JACKSON IS DEAD................!!! ................... NOTHING YOU OR ANYONE CAN DO TO A DEAD MAN........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 07:12 PM

Not buying what you are selling. Michael knew his drug addiction was a problem and he has gotten help for it before but choose to keep doctor shopping state to state to get what he wanted.

Yes, TBH it is. MJ did not realise these drugs were as harmful as they were. There have been links provided here previously to show that. It is a Doctors job, imo, to be trusted and prescribe and care for the patient, and unfortunately, in this case, they didn't. So, it is the Doctors who should be held accountable. MJ did not realise how serious these drugs were and should never been allowed to be prescribed them in their dosages/cocktails that they were. He didn't want to die, and he wanted to be around for this children, that is a given, so, it is the Doctors mistake. Why do you think there was such a delay, they were trying to cover their mistakes imo...

Mnchkin426

07-10-2009, 07:12 PM

legalmania

07-10-2009, 07:13 PM

Is it possible to start a thread sans (without) trial postings?? and Pedo accusations??..Maybe those that wish to discuss PAST HISTORY could start their own thread?..I am truly getting frustrated..Iggy doesnt work when quoting of those postings continue..Sorry folks..Not sure the legality on this board to do that?

Just asking??

LMS:sad:

It's not possible Lynda. it happened with Elvis, O.J ,Caylee, Haleigh and now Michael.

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 07:13 PM

well no more Inside edition for me..guess we are going to start seeing LE talking to the boy who the jury did not believe which is just ridiculous it has nothing do with the death of MJ :rolleyes: it is starting they want to release the next is the big raid at Neverland...sick IMO JMO IMHO guess they dont care to much about the kid that made the allegations seeing himself talking on tv again,..

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 07:14 PM

*cough cough*

You happen to be the #1 poster here... aka leader of the pack with most posts today dictating this thread, so I hardly see where you can accuse anyone else of the number one position you - yourself are holding right now!!

You can't discuss anything other than a pedophile and the old trial, which we have been warned about, however you find yourself to be above what the moderator here has ask from us.

You have been here all day long with repeating the same ole same ole mantra of yours. :)

Here's a newsflash for ya ... okay..................

MICHAEL JACKSON IS DEAD................!!! ................... NOTHING YOU OR ANYONE CAN DO TO A DEAD MAN........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, just wow. That's all I can say to that post.

aproudmom

07-10-2009, 07:22 PM

Has anyone heard more information about the situation with Drs. Klein and Murray? Apparently they have turned over some, but not all, their records regarding MJ. Has there been any mention of what they did turn over and what is still missing? Would be interesting to know. MO

sorry I have not been hard to keep up though with all the media junk and talk going on..I think Murray is more than likely hiding out..sorry maybe someone else has heard..Klein said he did on LKL the other night:confused:

legalmania

07-10-2009, 07:22 PM

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 07:23 PM

Then what would be a reason why MJ would have boy mannequins? He wasn't selling clothes and he wasn't a clothing maker? Where they suppose to be pretend friends of his?

Uncalled for remark and disgusting of you to imply this

magnolia

07-10-2009, 07:24 PM

Why not start a whole new thread for people that want to rehash the trial and accusations over and over and over again?

(Ummm...I don't want to.)

Why not start a thread where you can ask, "What difference does it make?, What difference does it make?..."

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 07:25 PM

Not Firehead but ....

Michael Jackson Last Supper
Artist Nate Giorgio signed a deal in 1985 with Michael Jackson to do 50 paintings of him that would be used for private and commercial reasons. This version of the Last Supper hung over Jacko's bed at Neverland. The diciples: Abraham Lincoln, John. F. Kennedy, Thomas Edison (not sure, anyone?), Albert Einstein, Michael Jackson as Christ, Walt Disney, Charlie Chaplin, Elvis Presley and Little Richard (or not, not sure of that one either).

Last Supper Parodies (many, many more at link)

http://culturepopped.blogspot.com/2007/04/suddenly-last-supper.html

Sean Connery Last Supper
Tarantino Last Supper
Mickey Mouse Last Supper
Sopranos Last Supper
Simpsons Last Supper
Superman's Last Supper
The Last Pancake Supper
The Last Breakfast
Cereal Mascot Last Supper
Sesame Street Last Supper
Star Wars Last Supper
Donkey Kong's Last Supper
The Last Software
Hollywood Last Supper
That 7o's show Last Supper
M.A.S.H. Last Supper
Ronald's Last Supper
Last Supper McSupersized
The Very Last Supper

Thank you for the additional information, especially nice to know it wasn't just an ego inflated Michael having his own painting.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 07:25 PM

So do I mainly because KJ is too old unless they consider Grace .....

I wish Rebbie would step up to the plate or even Marlon. Both have been in stable marriages (Rebbie 40 years; Marlon 25 years).

I was trying to identify Rebbie at the memorial service. The hats made it difficult! Reddish hair?

Despite KJ's age, I hope she gets custody of the children. I think it's important that they be surrounded by MJ's family, regardless of the dynamics.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 07:26 PM

Then what would be a reason why MJ would have boy mannequins? He wasn't selling clothes and he wasn't a clothing maker? Where they suppose to be pretend friends of his?

And if they were?

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 07:26 PM

IMO You are in denial if you don't think there are people that do funny stuff to blow up dolls and mannequins.Where have you been?

Funny???? That was disgusting, not at all funny.

bkwits

07-10-2009, 07:27 PM

I'm not upset.

And I don't need a nap.

So, your absence of a response tells me that it is just your opinion that MJ kept "secret" things in a "secret" room, is that correct?

I remember something about a secret room at Neverland. IIRC, one of the children spoke about it. It was around the time of the molestation trial. I think it was recounted in the media. If I have time I'll try to find it.

IMO

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 07:28 PM

Hi lm - it was for more than charities:

HOUSE RESOLUTION 600 /

Whereas Michael Jackson was not only an accomplished recording and performing artist, he was a noted humanitarian;

Whereas, on January 10, 1984, Michael Jackson visited the unit for burn victims at Brotman-Memorial Hospital in Los Angeles, and demonstrated his concern with people suffering from grievous injuries;

Whereas, on April 9, 1984, David Smithee, a 14-year-old boy suffering from cystic fibroses was invited to Michael's home, in response to a dying request to meet Michael. David passed away 7 weeks later;

Whereas, on April 14, 1984, Michael Jackson was single handedly responsible for equipping a 19-bed-unit at Mount Sinai New York Medical Center. This center is now a critical part of the T.J. Martell Foundation for leukemia and cancer research;

Whereas, on July 5, 1984, during the Jackson's press conference at Tavern On The Green, Michael announced that his portion of the earnings from the Victory Tour would be donated to three charitable organizations: The United Negro College Fund, Camp Good Times, and the T.J. Martell Foundation;

Whereas, on July 14, 1984, after the first concert of the Victory Tour, Michael met 8 terminally ill children backstage;

more ....

http://www.examiner.com/x-3035-Everyday-People-Examiner~y2009m7d7-House-Resolution-600--Honoring-Michael-Jackson

I tried to listen to live feed yesterday with NP speaking and could not hear a word she had to say. Do you happen to know what happened?
Just curious, and thanks in advance.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 07:29 PM

So there were alarms on his doors? No wonder no one saw him do anything he was warned when people were coming in.

The bedroom door alarms freaked me out

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 07:29 PM

where are you getting that there were "two" secret rooms"

so far, what's been shown is the small room accessible from the closet and the second story of the Master Bedroom, both of which have been seen.

where is this second secret room?

Are we suppose to be posting about this some more? Are we allowed?

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 07:29 PM

Rebbe had the "medium hat". She's the one that helped Paris with the microphone.

Janet wore the beret. La Toya had the large brimmed hat.

Thanks, Blackbird. But I noted that all of MJ's sisters "enclosed" the children, and I was pleased to see that. Those children need a lot of love and support right now, I think.

legalmania

07-10-2009, 07:29 PM

Hi lm - it was for more than charities:

HOUSE RESOLUTION 600 /

Whereas Michael Jackson was not only an accomplished recording and performing artist, he was a noted humanitarian;

Whereas, on January 10, 1984, Michael Jackson visited the unit for burn victims at Brotman-Memorial Hospital in Los Angeles, and demonstrated his concern with people suffering from grievous injuries;

Whereas, on April 9, 1984, David Smithee, a 14-year-old boy suffering from cystic fibroses was invited to Michael's home, in response to a dying request to meet Michael. David passed away 7 weeks later;

Whereas, on April 14, 1984, Michael Jackson was single handedly responsible for equipping a 19-bed-unit at Mount Sinai New York Medical Center. This center is now a critical part of the T.J. Martell Foundation for leukemia and cancer research;

Whereas, on July 5, 1984, during the Jackson's press conference at Tavern On The Green, Michael announced that his portion of the earnings from the Victory Tour would be donated to three charitable organizations: The United Negro College Fund, Camp Good Times, and the T.J. Martell Foundation;

Whereas, on July 14, 1984, after the first concert of the Victory Tour, Michael met 8 terminally ill children backstage;

more ....

http://www.examiner.com/x-3035-Everyday-People-Examiner~y2009m7d7-House-Resolution-600--Honoring-Michael-Jackson

Yes I remember somebody posted all his accomplishments and it took up the entire page.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 07:32 PM

I remember something about a secret room at Neverland. IIRC, one of the children spoke about it. It was around the time of the molestation trial. I think it was recounted in the media. If I have time I'll try to find it.

IMO

TY bk. I remember an interview of the police where it was called a secret room with dolls on all the steps.

magnolia

07-10-2009, 07:32 PM

What a load!!! You don't want to discuss it??? Really? but refuse to use the ignore feature or simply scroll by posts that are of no interest to you.
Then we have AProudMom posting about what Peter King said...Athenia jumps in and posts her opinion of his knowledge of the case.:rolleyes:

Posting shouldn't be a team sport. It's not about us v. them. We all have our opinions and should be able to discuss them here. IMO Stop trying to control everything. IMO

Many of the people who are complaining about discussing the past or the trail are the ones provided the links for ME to read about the past, lol. Ironic?

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 07:32 PM

OK - Janet had on the beret -- LaToya had on the largest hat in a pantsuit; and Rebbie had dress on and a hat a bit smaller than LaToya's:

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/08/janet-michael-will-live-forever/

Janet's body language and facial expressions are so very sad.
She appears to be taking this so hard and to me it is showing.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 07:32 PM

OK - Janet had on the beret -- LaToya had on the largest hat in a pantsuit; and Rebbie had dress on and a hat a bit smaller than LaToya's:

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/08/janet-michael-will-live-forever/

Thanks, Athena. Then it was LaToya I noticed the most, with the children.

Mnchkin426

07-10-2009, 07:34 PM

I cant post a link to this..so regard it as hearsay..but I did hear LE is having difficulties getting medial records from Murray and Klein..so issued suppeona's..and just in last half hour heard Dr. Klein;s ofice called plice for some reasons..for protection ??dont know at this point why police called out to his office??

LMS

I had heard the same....although not about subpeonas being issued. Was just wondering if LE had mentioned what records they feel are missing....or who in the LE said that. Think there was a Fox News report a few days ago that said that Dr. Murray had been cooperative. Seems like LE may have changed their mind....or TMZ isn't reporting accurately.....something has changed. Is very curious as to why police were called to Dr. Klein's office. MO

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 07:37 PM

I was joking but people can't take a joke...what I said was nothing what Jay Leno has said about MJ:laugh:

First, he/she made a joke. Speaking ill of the dead? You wouldn't be here talking about MJ if he didn't overdose. Are you yelling at the news stations for reporting on MJ every second of the day? I don't get your point. Fact: MJ was a drug abuser. imo

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 07:37 PM

According to everything I've read -- he was closest to Janet. I would imagine it was probably due them being in the same industry as well as their ages. :(

I have the same impression - that he was closest to Janet. I also think (strictly my opinion) that Janet is the one most likely to stand up to Joe.

magnolia

07-10-2009, 07:39 PM

then don't. you keep right on posting here. so either the topic will get shut down or you and others will continue to wallow in rumors, innuendo and unsubstantiated statements.

by all means, have at it.

You really are funny and making me laugh.

Are you sure Blackbird really isn't two people - like a husband and wife team. The wife admonishes the crowd not to talk about the past and the rebellious husband discusses the secret room at Neverland? lol

pssttt...Look back at my posts...I'm not REALLY discussing the trial or the room, lol.

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 07:40 PM

I have the same impression - that he was closest to Janet. I also think (strictly my opinion) that Janet is the one most likely to stand up to Joe.

Yea.. I think she did when she fired him for her manager and then recorded a song or album about control. Good for her... she just looks so sad and taking this so hard.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 07:40 PM

Sorry Cardinal..I am getting lazy..but can someone explain who Rebbie is?..Is she the one Jackson sibbling who never wanted fame??..if you know what I mean? I dont know one thing about her..Sorry:blushing:

LMS

Rebbie is the oldest sibling, I think. And has had her own recording career for years.

Someone who knows more, please correct me.

legalmania

07-10-2009, 07:40 PM

According to everything I've read -- he was closest to Janet. I would imagine it was probably due them being in the same industry as well as their ages. :(

I think they both protected each other from Joe also.

bkwits

07-10-2009, 07:42 PM

Peter King is my new hero:wub:

Gee Linda, this time ITA with you. Honor Jackson for his music and showmanship, but not the other. I don't consider him a humanitarian when he stiffed so many people that he owed money. Many of these people were small business or service people. Nanny Grace said she hadn't been paid for months. Jackson gave money for the glory. IMO

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 07:44 PM

Yea.. I think she did when she fired him for her manager and then recorded a song or album about control. Good for her... she just looks so sad and taking this so hard.

I get the impression that this is hardest (aside from Katherine) for Janet and Jermaine. I honestly think they had the most realistic view of their brother, and I also think they were the ones who didn't look to him to support them.

I don't have rose-colored vision where MJ was concerned, but I do think the rest of the family considered him the rainmaker. And that was just that much more pressure on MJ.

legalmania

07-10-2009, 07:44 PM

Janet fired her father as her manager as soon as she turned 18 and her first CD released under new management was called "Control". LOL

Michael broke away as soon as he could also, he didn't want to let his brothers down, but he had to think about himself.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 07:45 PM

IMO You are in denial if you don't think there are people that do funny stuff to blow up dolls and mannequins.Where have you been?

I actually saw a documentary about that. The whole time my mouth was hanging open. It showed everything. How they are made. How to clean them when they get to filled up. How people feel about them. They dress them and comb their hair and everything. These were very expensive versions of mannequins that were anatomically correct and the skin is realistic. People can have anything made.

JMO

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 07:46 PM

sorry...that cracked me up.

Ya know...all of his charitable donations don't even add up to the known amounts paid to his alleged victims....IMO

Is that so? I assume you did not watch LKL a few nights ago. Michael has donated over $350 million to charities.

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 07:48 PM

----------

one would think that MJ was the only person who donated to charities. many many people donate. maybe for tax credits? jmo

Sure people get a deduction ( not a credit ) for charitable donations. You have a problem with that?

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 07:48 PM

----------

one would think that MJ was the only person who donated to charities. many many people donate. maybe for tax credits? jmo

Michael has donated to more charities than any other pop star
He has donated over $350 million. Show me the many people that have donated that much.
What is the problem with getting a tax credit? Which btw is a deduction not a credit

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 07:49 PM

I saw the NABLA site is still up and it's sick that they think that it's ok to be with young kids as long as the relationship is loving...sounds like someone we heard of before.

Could you please stay on topic?

Mnchkin426

07-10-2009, 07:49 PM

sorry...that cracked me up.

Ya know...all of his charitable donations don't even add up to the known amounts paid to his alleged victims....IMO

Is this just your opinion or do you have a source for the amount of his charitable donations? Would be interested to see the list and the amounts. MO

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 07:49 PM

not as long as someone keeps posting speculation as fact.

I don't. What is wrong with you? I always put it's my opinion. Geez!

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 07:52 PM

I get the impression that this is hardest (aside from Katherine) for Janet and Jermaine. I honestly think they had the most realistic view of their brother, and I also think they were the ones who didn't look to him to support them.

I don't have rose-colored vision where MJ was concerned, but I do think the rest of the family considered him the rainmaker. And that was just that much more pressure on MJ.

MJ wil never be understood by anyone in my opinion. I'm not stating he was a saint by any means, but he did far more in his life to help others than most celebs/entertainers in the industry who could make
a difference if they weren't so selfish.

JMO
IMO

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 07:53 PM

Doctors must only do this with people with money because when I need a refill for a bladder infection they made me come in to pee in a cup to prove I needed the meds!

ITA and the pharmacy should be tracking them so red flag goes up if it is something you should not be taking with another medication..I always ask and they get so mad and tell me if there was a problem it would let them know and they would let my doctor know..

I saw someone say they have all the warning on them most will not even look at them for one their doctor they trust they trust the pharmacy and most of it is scares people..should they read it I guess I don't because I ask in person..

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 07:54 PM

Once again..TY..I did look her up..and wiki did mention a short career..and then her kids..and yes those kids do have some sort of singing careers..It does seem they used their talents to get ahead..and not used their NAME connection to gain recognition..Kudo's to Rebbie!!

LMS

I didn't even know who Rebbie was until the death of Michael.

legalmania

07-10-2009, 07:54 PM

Is that so? I assume you did not watch LKL a few nights ago. Michael has donated over $350 million to charities.

Thanks GoldBug I knew it was a lot.

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 07:54 PM

-----------

watch out, Rose............they gonna ask you for a link. lmao

You're right. I quickly added a JMO, but that won't help me either as I have found out today. LOL

Tokyo Rose

07-10-2009, 07:57 PM

Gee Linda, this time ITA with you. Honor Jackson for his music and showmanship, but not the other. I don't consider him a humanitarian when he stiffed so many people that he owed money. Many of these people were small business or service people. Nanny Grace said she hadn't been paid for months. Jackson gave money for the glory. IMO

Yes, and he never paid DR all the money he agreed to pay her. jmo

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 07:58 PM

I am about over it really..I know we all have our opinions and then people like this guy who people vote in I am at a lose of words it is a hate campaign no one will make me think anything else does anyone really think they want to show our troops being killed over there HECK NO THEY DO NOT..it was the TOT-MOM JON AND KATE AND OCTOMOM before this is that news ???nope not in my opinion..this at least is bringing up the fact of these drugs killing people and doctors being the yes man..not if octomom got a new piggy as a pet

She got a piggy as a pet??? :ohmy: :laugh:

GoldBug

07-10-2009, 07:58 PM

--------

Excuse me....i meant to say deduction. I question a lot of things and its my right to do that. jmo

You just told the other poster you don't have a problem with it, Now you tell me that you question it

Which is it?

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 07:59 PM

Because for some of us to "move on" we need closure. Same as people wanting to know how their loved one died. For me to move on and think he never did anything with kids I need know as many facts from both sides before I can just let it die. And that trial in 2005 was a mess just because 14 people said he was innocent doesn't mean he really was the DA had a weak case because they mother tainted the trial.

Why are the past accusations of Michael Jackson being a child molester important now?

What possible difference could it make? Nothing was ever legally proven and the accusations will have no bearings whatsoever on any potential custody disputes.

It's really a moot subject.

legalmania

07-10-2009, 08:00 PM

As the world continues to mourn the loss of a great artist, the Guiness World Record book remembers Michael Jackson instead as the king of charity.

The Millenium issue listed the music legend under Most Charities Supported By A Pop Star, with a staggering 39 international organizations including the Make-A-Wish Foundation and the American Cancer Society. Those are only the known ones however, as Jackson was also prone to giving away impulsively and anonymously.

Jackson had been known to hand over the proceeds from concerts to local charities and hospitals as he did with the History tour in Bombay, or donate personal items for auction to organisations like UNESCO. It’s been estimated he may have given up to $500 million to charity in his lifetime.

In addition to his charity work, Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, had more Guiness world records than any other artist, including Most Successful Concert Series and Biggest Selling Album for Thriller.

http://jollypeople.com/blog/2009/07/01/michael-jackson-guiness-world-record/

Thank you Athena these are the things the media should be plastering all over the front page.

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 08:02 PM

As the world continues to mourn the loss of a great artist, the Guiness World Record book remembers Michael Jackson instead as the king of charity.

The Millenium issue listed the music legend under Most Charities Supported By A Pop Star, with a staggering 39 international organizations including the Make-A-Wish Foundation and the American Cancer Society. Those are only the known ones however, as Jackson was also prone to giving away impulsively and anonymously.

Jackson had been known to hand over the proceeds from concerts to local charities and hospitals as he did with the History tour in Bombay, or donate personal items for auction to organisations like UNESCO. It’s been estimated he may have given up to $500 million to charity in his lifetime.

In addition to his charity work, Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, had more Guiness world records than any other artist, including Most Successful Concert Series and Biggest Selling Album for Thriller.

http://jollypeople.com/blog/2009/07/01/michael-jackson-guiness-world-record/

Thank you again for information and the link. I am curious if his trust outlined the charities his estate will donate to? I heard the executor would choose, however that was not supported by a source, or at least I didn't read about it.

CinderL.

07-10-2009, 08:03 PM

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 08:03 PM

And don't forget he never had a childhood so it's ok for him to behave like that. I would never get away with inviting the neighborhood kids to my house for sleep overs and sharing my bed with them because I'm not famous nor rich.IMO

MJ is the perpetual victim. :barf:

Give me a break...the man was as dumb as a fox. IMO

Cardinal

07-10-2009, 08:04 PM

MJ wil never be understood by anyone in my opinion. I'm not stating he was a saint by any means, but he did far more in his life to help others than most celebs/entertainers in the industry who could make
a difference if they weren't so selfish.

JMO
IMO

I don't think he was a saint, either. I think he was an amazingly talented musician and performer, who changed the face of pop music forever. I give him full credit for that. He was also an amazingly generous contributor to charitable causes. "We Are The World" brought a new consciousness to a tremendous number of people.

As for the rest, people will think what they think. So be it. But I wish they would at least base their opinions on fact rather than their own issues.

:seeya: Goodnight.

Hanalei

07-10-2009, 08:04 PM

Not me I can't love someone I didn't know.

Exactly, they need to GET OVER IT. MJ is dead now, god bless his soul. RIP Michael, we all love you.

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 08:05 PM

Sure glad I am not the only one!! Yikes, dont ever want to think I am so behind in matters like this..

LMS:sad:

LOL.... well get this..... when I first heard about Rebbie I had ask I think Athena if that was Joe's other child out of wedlock. AND I didn't know about the twin brother that died either, until it was mentioned at the memorial.

GentleBreeze

07-10-2009, 08:06 PM

Wow i thought michael had house keepers. That was awful looking. jmo

His staff was on duty.

These are photos of the home as LE is coming in to tear it apart.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1197565/Sheriffs-raid-Michael-Jacksons-Neverland-Ranch.html

Where he stored the toys would be congested like most closets across America. He had lots of toys and dolls for the children to play with.

imo

*Serenity*

07-10-2009, 08:07 PM

I don't think he was a saint, either. I think he was an amazingly talented musician and performer, who changed the face of pop music forever. I give him full credit for that. He was also an amazingly generous contributor to charitable causes. "We Are The World" brought a new consciousness to a tremendous number of people.

As for the rest, people will think what they think. So be it. But I wish they would at least base their opinions on fact rather than their own issues.

:seeya: Goodnight.

:thumbup: Have a nice evening Cardinal, glad to post with you for a bit.