Obama's birth certificate

[JonDough]

90 minutes later Snopes.com has corrected their information to read "Barrack Hussein Obama, was born on 4 August 1961 at the Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii. (News accounts have also variously reported his birth as having occurred at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu.)"

Now if you will follow me on the links Snopes.com provided above for the evidence that Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii is his place of birth. The Kapiolani link goes off to wikipedia as source proof that Obama was born at this hospital which then links to a Washington Post article as evidence of his birth. But this can't be conclusive evidence from Snopes.com cause they themselves admitted that there are other news accounts that report his birth as having occurred elsewhere. But it even gets worse for Snopes.com and wikipedia.com. By clicking on the link wikipedia provides for information on Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children you find these comments:

"The hospital is the alleged birthplace of Barack Obama, President of the United States, although the hospital refuses to confirm or deny this claim due to privacy policies.[1][2][3][4][5] The release of Obama's official birth certificate, naming the hospital of birth, is the subject of current litigation." link (http://www.valuesvoternews.com/2009/07/snopescom-changes-hospital-of-obamas.html)

Maybe Obama's real place of birth is not even in Hawaii. :shrug: So much for Snopes being a credible source.

[daniel green]

link (http://www.valuesvoternews.com/2009/07/snopescom-changes-hospital-of-obamas.html)

snipped.

Goodness, you'd think that Values Voters would have their hands full with Sanford and their other speakers. Maybe that's why, when making this stuff up outta whole cloth, they can't even spell the President's name correctly.

90 minutes later Snopes.com has corrected their information to read "Barrack Hussein Obama,

:rolleyes:

[kristy5]

link (http://www.valuesvoternews.com/2009/07/snopescom-changes-hospital-of-obamas.html)

Maybe Obama's real place of birth is not even in Hawaii. :shrug: So much for Snopes being a credible source.

I've thought for years that Snopes was slanted to the left and I guess this proves it - JMO

[theal3]

Amazing what folks will cling to, when their party loses two elections. Re-invent this fallacy every 6 mos.....Don't worry about viable conservative candidates for the next election, or a GOP leader.....LOL.


Unbelievable. Well, here they go again with the "birth thing." Yikes.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Goodness, you'd think that Values Voters would have their hands full with Sanford and their other speakers. Maybe that's why, when making this stuff up outta whole cloth, they can't even spell the President's name correctly.



:rolleyes:


Forget "Value Voters" The White House can't spell the presidents name correctly.

White House misspells Obama's name

http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/out-context/2009/jul/09/white-house-misspells-obamas-name/

[Alliekat]

Amazing what folks will cling to, when their party loses two elections. Re-invent this fallacy every 6 mos.....Don't worry about viable conservative candidates for the next election, or a GOP leader.....LOL.

Isn't that the truth!!! :rolleyes: It's pathetic and pitiful!

[Alliekat]

From the article!

"Obama's first name is spelled that way on his birth certificate — probably because there are no C's in Kenya."

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Perhaps Obama will appoint a Spelling Czar.

:lol:

pik, pic meh. :sneaky:

[Alliekat]

Forget "Value Voters" The White House can't spell the presidents name correctly.

White House misspells Obama's name

http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/out-context/2009/jul/09/white-house-misspells-obamas-name/


Did you even READ the link you posted:


"Obama's first name is spelled that way on his birth certificate — probably because there are no C's in Kenya."

AND....Article from WND...WORLD NUT DAILY: :lol: 'nuf said! :rolleyes:

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Did you even READ the link you posted:


"Obama's first name is spelled that way on his birth certificate — probably because there are no C's in Kenya."

AND....Article from WND...WORLD NUT DAILY: :lol: 'nuf said! :rolleyes:


Here sorry about that better links one directly to documents:


http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/07/08/white-house-spells-obamas-name-wrong/

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/07/09/more-spelling-errors-plague-obama-releases/

[Alliekat]

And that is important....because.....????...:huh::confused:

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

And that is important....because.....:huh::confused:

It is just as "important" that the White House misspelled his name, as Daniel Green pointing out that Snopes did.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

One would think... :wink:

[Lady_Jean_La]

From the article!

"Obama's first name is spelled that way on his birth certificate — probably because there are no C's in Kenya."

That is why Kenya has Tzars. imo

[daniel green]

It is just as "important" that the White House misspelled his name, as Daniel Green pointing out that Snopes did.

Nope. Not Snopes.

Value Voters did.

[Alliekat]

Nope. Not Snopes.

Value Voters did.

Value Voters....another RW blog!

Daniel, one would think people who post links would at least READ them properly...:laugh: ya think?
It's almost embarassing to point this out....like stealing candy from a child.!

[daniel green]

That is why Kenya has Tzars. imo

Really? You have proof of that? :rolleyes:

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Nope. Not Snopes.

Value Voters did.


OOps I would think that the White House would take more care in spelling his name than Value Voters, wouldn't you?

[daniel green]

Value Voters....another RW blog!

Daniel, one would think people who post links would at least READ them properly...:laugh: ya think?
It's almost embarassing to point this out....like stealing candy from a child.!

YUP YUP.

Value Voters--you know, the group that ixnayed Sanford from its website within minutes of his press conference confessing to adultery.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Link please. Prove it or you could lose it!!!!:tonguewag:

Here you go my dear friend. Always glad to be of help.

Kenya anti-graft tsar back with warning

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d6e20850-6edc-11dd-a80a-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1

former anti-graft tsar

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSLE15836420080814?feedType=RSS&am=undefined&sp=true

C of E Olympic tsar licensed at St Paul's

http://www.chelmsford.anglican.org/c-of-e-olympic-tsar-licensed-at-st-pauls.html

[Lady_Jean_La]

OOps I would think that the White House would take more care in spelling his name than Value Voters, wouldn't you?
Maybe someone removed 'C' from the keyboards. Doubt it. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Really? You have proof of that? :rolleyes:

Soccer Tzarina

http://www.peacewomen.org/news/Liberia/Dec05/genderandpolitics.html

[watcher2005]

Where's the poll?

[Lady_Jean_La]

You didn't help! your first link is broken, and the other's show the media using the term.....When you find something official, dear friend, please post it.. I'd hate for people to think you can't!!

The point is that Barack is spelled Barak because there is no 'C' in Swahili as there is in English.

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art19717.asp

C is only found coupled with H as CH. This is pronounced as the CH in 'church'

[MercedesV]

The birthers are coming again. And World Net Daily is leading the charge.

The conservative WorldNetDaily.com Web site is the conductor of the Birther train. On the site, you can donate money to rent billboard space that asks "Where's the Birth Certificate?" They've got a petition demanding the president produce his original birth certificate — now signed, they say, by 400,000 people. From the site, you can buy "Where's the Birth Certificate?" yard signs and bumper stickers. The site has recently run stories about a man whose attempts to sell a purported Obama birth certificate from Kenya on eBay have been repeatedly shut down.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/01/worldnetdaily/birthers-claim-gibbs-lied-when-he-said-obamas-birt/

Well worth reading the whole article. Not that I think it will change the minds of the birthers.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Whose point? Your's? Or Moots?

Alliekat Post #12

[daniel green]

The point is that Barack is spelled Barak because there is no 'C' in Swahili as there is in English.

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art19717.asp

The point is that Value Voters misspelled the name by adding an extra r:

has corrected their information to read "Barrack Hussein Obama,
ibid

:rolleyes:

[daniel green]

snipped
Please define Value Voters, first I've heard it till around 20 times from you.
IMO

It's in the OP link.

http://www.valuesvotersummit.org/

The hyperlink in the OP:

http://www.valuesvoternews.com/2009/07/snopescom-changes-hospital-of-obamas.html

[Alliekat]

Are you ladies having a contest to see who can be the clever, Link Queen Czar?
Please define Value Voters, first I've heard it till around 20 times from you.
IMO

GEEZ..do you ever read the links!!! :rolleyes: It's THERE!

[Patriot]

link (http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/story/778482.html) Obama's place of birth is becoming a real concern for many Americans, there has to be a reason Obama is fighting so hard to keep his birth and college documents hidden from the American people.

Original (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/07/obama-scrubs-the-web-of-all-birth-docs.html), vault copy birth certificate -- Not released (lawyers' fees = $2,000,000 ~ birth certificate = $15)


The cynic in me says this one will be thrown out too. It's all about money and power and there is a lot of both keeping the details on his birth a secret.

Interesting about snopes.

[Patriot]

"Opponents of Barack Obama's Presidency Claim Small Court Victory"

"Supporters of a case that disputes the legitimacy of Barack Obama's presidency claimed a small victory today when US District Court Judge David O. Carter told them to fix their paperwork and he would listen to the "merits" of their case. But others present at the courthouse Monday in Santa Ana stressed that the case remains a long way from ever getting a full airing in court and may never get to that point."


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/07/opponents-of-barack-obamas-presidency-claim-small-court-victory.html


Thanks for that link.

Once the paperwork is filed, the government has 60 days to respond.


Well, they need to get on it then. Judge Carter has a lot of guts being willing to listen to the merits of the case but he'd better watch his back and look under his car before he starts it from now on.

[Patriot]

Good for the judge. Hear the case, produce the long version BC and be done with it. If it's stupid, then produce the BC and laugh at the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theoriests.

I find it fascinating that this issue is gaining traction again.

I don't think it ever lost it, it's just that most of the media isn't about to give it any coverage because they don't want the truth to come out and anyone who would want to cover it anyway has been threatened and bullied into silence. JMO.

[Patriot]

No need to declare yourself a cynic, Patriot. Having read the entire article, would love to see the paperwork these folks have filed to date. Think they should hire a legal secretary, at a minimum.

Oh, I'm most definitely a cynic. :wink:

I would love to see the paperwork also. Not that a silly thing like our laws, rights and paperwork that is all in order is going to stop the agenda that is the goal of the power behind Obama. JMO.

[Patriot]

Why? Has someone threatened him? :ohmy:

Not that I know of. That was based on my opinion of the real power behind Obama and getting him elected. :)

[Patriot]

Again, form the OP's article, the agenda would appear to be with Alan Keyes. He certainly has the money to hire a legal secretary to fill out the documents properly. Keyes is not a lawyer, but certainly has both the savvy and education to know how one should file suit. Makes one wonder why he didn't begin with step one. Maybe it's more fun to create controversy and cry foul, when you miss that first procedural step. Props to the judge for his patience.


Sorry if I missed it, but where did you see that Alan Keyes is behind Cook's suit? I searched both links but couldn't find it.

[Len]

LOL. This is becoming like a comedy. It is entertaining to see that there are still people who want to believe that our president is not American (whatever their motives are). This sort of ideation makes the flat earth society look legitimate.

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

[Patriot]

The parade of rafts started with none other than that perennial candidate, Alan Keyes. And as each leaky raft is launched with even more holes, the only thing becoming stronger are the cries of martyrdom. Yikes, at this stage, am surprised even the Swiftboaters aren't embarrassed.


What exactly are the "holes" in the rafts that you see?

What do you mean that the cries of martyrdom are becoming stronger than the accusations of Obama being foreign born? Who is trying to wrap themselves in the martyr cloak and why would that benefit them?

[Brentwood]

Pssssst, I heard that Obama's real father is from the planet Krypton and he was sent to earth by his dad, Korel, to save the earth. It must be true because I read it on the internet. Maybe his fake birth certificate is printed on that kind of paper that 'Dr Who' uses to fake his identity on different planets.

[Patriot]

The case/suit has been filed on numerous occassions in a variety of courts, making it "asked and answered" as well as certified by the State of Hawaii regarding the birth certificate. If there are legitimate concerns, the proper venue is Hawaii, if one thinks asked, answered and certified to be insufficient. Hawaii certified the birth certificate, the 'challenge' would be there, if there is one.

The cries as shown are Keyes and Taitz, et al (et al being the people he represents); probably others, but too many rafts, too little time to follow all the frivolous suits.

Benefits of this frivolity? At a guess attention, controversy and a distraction.


I think there have only been two suits, both thrown out, but I don't think two qualifies it as "numerous". Just because those suits have been dismissed does not mean they did not have merit. Saying it was "certified" sounds very legal and important but what happened is that the state's Department of Health Director simply said it was legitimate. That isn't enough, at least for those who claim they have proof to the contrary, hence the suits. In today's world of politics rife with lies and corruption, most people are not willing to simply accept someone's word. It doesn't help the state will not release the birth certificate (hiding behind a law that it can not be released to someone outside of the family - but the family isn't rushing to release it either).

http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html

I'm not really understanding your use of the word "martyrdom". The word implies that those bringing suit want others to feel sorry for them and I don't follow that. I understand that you believe they are on a witch hunt and the suits are bogus, but why would they want anyone to feel sorry for them and what would that gain them?

[Patriot]

Questions that are still unanswered -


Why won't Obama ask for the birth certificate to be released (as per law - it will not be released to anyone other than he or immediate family or a representative)?

The anonymous source made clear the Hawaii Department of Health would immediately release Obama's original birth certificate, provided Obama requested the document be released, but the Department of Heath has received no such request from the senator or from anyone acting officially on his behalf.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174

That would certainly put an end to the entire issue.



Why did his grandmother say she witnessed his birth in Kenya?

In a startling development, Obama's Kenyan grandmother has reportedly alleged she witnessed Obama's birth at the Coast Provincial Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya (above link)


WND is in possession of an affidavit submitted by Rev. Kweli Shuhubia, an Anabaptist minister in Kenya, who is the official Swahili translator for the annual Anabaptist Conference in Kenya, and a second affidavit signed by Bishop Ron McRae, the presiding elder of the Anabaptists' Continental Presbytery of Africa.

In his affidavit, Shuhubia asserts "it is common knowledge throughout the Christian and Muslim communities in Kenya that Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., was born in Mombasa, Kenya."

Shuhubia further states in his affidavit that he visited Obama's grandmother at her home in the village of Alego-Kogello, on Oct. 16, 2008, in order to conduct a telephone conference interview that would connect with McRae in the United States.

During the telephone interview, McRae specifically asked Sarah Obama two times, "Were you present when your grandson was born in Kenya."

"Both times she specifically replied, 'Yes,'" Shuhubia affirmed in the affidavit.

"Ms. Sarah Hussein Obama was very adamant that her grandson, Senator Barack Hussein Obama, was born in Kenya, and that she was present and witnessed his birth in Kenya, not the United States," Shuhubia continued in the affidavit.


Are Shuhubia and McRae lying? If so, why?


http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=103294

[snookums1]

link (http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/story/778482.html) Obama's place of birth is becoming a real concern for many Americans, there has to be a reason Obama is fighting so hard to keep his birth and college documents hidden from the American people.

Original (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/07/obama-scrubs-the-web-of-all-birth-docs.html), vault copy birth certificate -- Not released (lawyers' fees = $2,000,000 ~ birth certificate = $15)The state of Hawaii has verified that he was in fact born there. Guess what? Hawaii is a state. Was at the time of his birth. But the talking heads won't let it go and as a result, all the fools that believe them are looking like what they are. Stupid.

[snookums1]

:lol: And on Sunday the slowest news day of the week, that's all they have to offer. And every time they bring it up, they look dumber. It is a great conspiracy don't you know. The state of Hawaii is lying. What it all boils down to is they cannot stand the fact that a black man is not only more intelligent than they are, he was voted to become, by millions of people, to be president. Racism at it's finest. They need to get over it. He won. He is our President, whether they like it or not. And the only way they can change it is to vote him out of office. All this silliness over his birth certificate simply makes them look dumber than dumb.

[theal3]

And every time they bring it up, they look dumber. It is a great conspiracy don't you know. The state of Hawaii is lying. What it all boils down to is they cannot stand the fact that a black man is not only more intelligent than they are, he was voted to become, by millions of people, to be president. Racism at it's finest. They need to get over it. He won. He is our President, whether they like it or not. And the only way they can change it is to vote him out of office. All this silliness over his birth certificate simply makes them look dumber than dumb.

Well said, and I was born in 1943 and my kids in the 60s, 70s and 80s and for me and them: to get into grade school certified birth certificate; to get married, certified birth certificate; to get into college and with transcripts of HS, birth birth certificate; to get pass ports certified birth certificate: and when applying for SS# i needed my birth certificate. I'm sure it was that way for Obama, too regarding school, college, marriage etc.

[snookums1]

As another poster said, bone-deep bigotry. Dumb and dumber have not made it to subtle discrimination.

Common sense? The man was a US Senator, ya think he didn't provide proper documentation to prove he was 30? Nah, first and frivoluous filed by Alan Keyes on inauguration day. It is no longer subtle. It is sticking out like a sore thumb. It is very sad. I have a son that is mentally challenged. Last week we took him to a casino because he had saved money and loves to play slot machines. I was unable to sit next to him but was sitting close, next to a black lady. He talks to everyone and was talking to the lady next to him. I said to the black lady "I wish he would not talk to strangers like that" "He does not understand that not everyone wants to communicate with him" "Some people back off as though mental retardation is contageous". She said "I understand that" "A lady I sat next to just tonight was upset that I sat next to her and made her feelings known" "She won't catch black yet she looked terrified" We are all human, whether black or white, straight or gay, Protestant or Catholic or Jew, Christian or non Christian, Irish or Mexican or Polish or Italian. Since we are all human, we are all equal and should be respected or not respected only on our actions, not our color, intelligence, gender or ethnicity. Yet because a black man was elected to be our president, the bigots are outraged and will do anything to discredit him. They had no problem with a white man that lied to them, sent this country to war for no reason and bankrupted it. But lordy, they sure have problems with Obama and have since before he was sworn in.

[snookums1]

That would make WND the best at what they do. I'm fairly certain that isn't what you meant to say.Hmmmm. Didn't RightProper say that one of them admitted it was satire? That, of course, would be The Onion. WND is the same but claims it is truth. Big difference.

[snookums1]

Bigotry is sad, and rarely rises to a level of subtle, unless we accept that imaginary "obligatory friend" with the minority du jour some claim. Maybe we should be thankful dumb and dumber bigots are as dumb as they are. Bless them in their blatency? Doesn't make them easier to live with, but sure does make it easier to step aside and watch them make fools of themselves. AMEN And fools are easy to spot.

[LisaM22]

oh geez, are the republicans back to this again, lol, this has already been proved to be bunk, how pathetic

[snookums1]

oh geez, are the republicans back to this again, lol, this has already been proved to be bunk, how pathetic Pathetic is putting it mildly but apparently that is all they have. :laugh:

[Brat2002]

Questions that are still unanswered -


Why won't Obama ask for the birth certificate to be released (as per law - it will not be released to anyone other than he or immediate family or a representative)?



http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174

That would certainly put an end to the entire issue.



Why did his grandmother say she witnessed his birth in Kenya?

(above link)





Are Shuhubia and McRae lying? If so, why?


http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=103294

Now we see where this started, don't we? I always wondered why this issue came up to begin with. Why would all these people lie? They knew BO personally and seem quite insistent about this fact. So, before some of the BO supporters insult the OP or any of us for continuing to follow this case, perhaps they should direct their anger at the grandmother, Shububia or anyone else who states they witnessed his birth in Kenya.

When BO went to Hawaii to see his sick grandmother, it was reported that he ordered his records sealed in a private meeting and I remember thinking his actions at that time were rather curious. The copy of the birth certificate presented during the campaign had some major differences from other copies from the same time period. Different color background, different wording and no official seal IIRC. Also, there were no creases in the paper and it looked like a fresh copy, not something folded into an envelope and mailed. Why shouldn't people stop and ask why? And if he needed the original for starting school, etc, why wasn't that one shown?

IMO

[watcher2005]

Pssssst, I heard that Obama's real father is from the planet Krypton and he was sent to earth by his dad, Korel, to save the earth. It must be true because I read it on the internet. Maybe his fake birth certificate is printed on that kind of paper that 'Dr Who' uses to fake his identity on different planets.

Actually, isn't that what Obama said? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vws9fTtQgz4

[snookums1]

Now we see where this started, don't we? I always wondered why this issue came up to begin with. Why would all these people lie? They knew BO personally and seem quite insistent about this fact. So, before some of the BO supporters insult the OP or any of us for continuing to follow this case, perhaps they should direct their anger at the grandmother, Shububia or anyone else who states they witnessed his birth in Kenya.

When BO went to Hawaii to see his sick grandmother, it was reported that he ordered his records sealed in a private meeting and I remember thinking his actions at that time were rather curious. The copy of the birth certificate presented during the campaign had some major differences from other copies from the same time period. Different color background, different wording and no official seal IIRC. Also, there were no creases in the paper and it looked like a fresh copy, not something folded into an envelope and mailed. Why shouldn't people stop and ask why? And if he needed the original for starting school, etc, why wasn't that one shown?

IMOActually Brat, the state of Hawaii released their records a long time ago. They showed exactly what they had on record at the Bureau of Vital Statistics. What they had on record was that Obama was in fact born in Hawaii to a mother that was in fact a citizen of the United States of America. Therefore Obama is in fact a citizen of this country. If you care to dispute that, take it up the the Bureau of Vital Statistics in Hawaii.

[snookums1]

:lol: he sure did, and proved to have quite the sense of humor. Thanx for sharing! And once we figure out where Kryton really is, we will know where he was born. :lol:

[snookums1]

:lol: we have better odds on locating that fictional city/state, than de-bunking this myth/thread once and for all.All laughter aside, don't you find it sad that people are more willing to believe the naysayers than they are the Bureau of Vital Statistics in Hawaii? How dumb is that? Or should I say pathetic?

[dref99]

Now we see where this started, don't we? I always wondered why this issue came up to begin with. Why would all these people lie? They knew BO personally and seem quite insistent about this fact. So, before some of the BO supporters insult the OP or any of us for continuing to follow this case, perhaps they should direct their anger at the grandmother, Shububia or anyone else who states they witnessed his birth in Kenya.

When BO went to Hawaii to see his sick grandmother, it was reported that he ordered his records sealed in a private meeting and I remember thinking his actions at that time were rather curious. The copy of the birth certificate presented during the campaign had some major differences from other copies from the same time period. Different color background, different wording and no official seal IIRC. Also, there were no creases in the paper and it looked like a fresh copy, not something folded into an envelope and mailed. Why shouldn't people stop and ask why? And if he needed the original for starting school, etc, why wasn't that one shown?

IMO

It is sad that some folks would stoop to anything to discredit the President of the United States - shame is about all that can be said about all or any of these people who do, in fact, lie.

The reality is President Obama won an election - all the paranoia and false accusations that can be levied by nut cases will not change that fact. That you or anyone else chooses to believe the nonsense reflects not on the President.

jmo

[Details]

Hawaii says he was born there. That IS the ultimate authority. No bit of paper means more than the department of records saying everything adds up, everything is there, he was born there, and his birth certificate that he has presented is indeed correct and valid.

Papers can be forged. The records in the department (of a Republican state, BTW) - those are what is solid. He was born in Hawaii. The ultimate, best source possible, says so.



There's contemporary newspaper birth announcements, the fact he's gone his entire life doing things only a citizen could, and so on and so forth - but all that pales in comparison to the Department of records saying he indeed was born in Hawaii. Given that - there's just nothing rational to discuss.

[Details]

:blink: anyone care to parse/field this one? REAL LIVE BIRTH CERTIFICATE, not the certificate of live birth, which is not a BIRTH CERTIFICATE :blink:They're asking for an impossible document, one which in fact is not taken as indicating your citizenship (many people have attested to that), from the vaults of Hawaii. It's not the real and proper birth certificate any of us would use to verify our citizenship, it's some other form, that only the records department and the hospital (maybe) keeps a copy of.

IMO - purely a made up issue - since Obama presented his proper, legal, state certified birth certificate - they had to find something new to ask for. Sounds nice - but ask any of the people requesting this document where theirs is - and they couldn't prove they were a citizen either! Just sillyness. When the department of records checks, and confirms you were born in Hawaii -that's solid proof.

[Circe]

:blink: anyone care to parse/field this one? REAL LIVE BIRTH CERTIFICATE, not the certificate of live birth, which is not a BIRTH CERTIFICATE :blink:

People seem to have a hard time understanding that their so called REAL LIVE BIRTH CERTIFICATE and that certificate of live birth you get from the state when you request it are one and the same. They seem to think that somewhere, there is some OTHER real live birth certificate.

As to this stupid law suit.......the lady who filed it, Orly Taitz, has a law degree from an on line only university that is NOT accredited by the ABA, which IMHO tell you all you need to know about the validity of this whole thing.

[Len]

Now we see where this started, don't we? I always wondered why this issue came up to begin with. Why would all these people lie? They knew BO personally and seem quite insistent about this fact. So, before some of the BO supporters insult the OP or any of us for continuing to follow this case, perhaps they should direct their anger at the grandmother, Shububia or anyone else who states they witnessed his birth in Kenya.

When BO went to Hawaii to see his sick grandmother, it was reported that he ordered his records sealed in a private meeting and I remember thinking his actions at that time were rather curious. The copy of the birth certificate presented during the campaign had some major differences from other copies from the same time period. Different color background, different wording and no official seal IIRC. Also, there were no creases in the paper and it looked like a fresh copy, not something folded into an envelope and mailed. Why shouldn't people stop and ask why? And if he needed the original for starting school, etc, why wasn't that one shown?

IMO


Excellent points. Obama may well have been born in Kenya or another part of the world. It may yet be another conspiracy of the liberal media to bring socialism to America. Lets also not forget that the earth IS flat and the Pope is NOT Catholic, but the liberal media have been deceiving us all along.

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

[jaxback]

Excellent points. Obama may well have been born in Kenya or another part of the world. It may yet be another conspiracy of the liberal media to bring socialism to America. Lets also not forget that the earth IS flat and the Pope is NOT Catholic, but the liberal media have been deceiving us all along.

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

And please don't forget that, according to Sen. Brownback, we are in imminent threat of mermaids and other "mixed species" taking over.:rolleyes:

[Len]

And please don't forget that, according to Sen. Brownback, we are in imminent threat of mermaids and other "mixed species" taking over.:rolleyes:

Exactly. Good point. Thanks for bringing attention to this very serious issue.

[Len]

Has his birth certificate been made public? If not, why not?:confused:


Because the earth is flat. Have you seen the Pope's Catholic card registration? I have news for you. He is not Catholic. It has been a liberal media conspiracy all along.

[Circe]

1. This AGAIN?? seriously??

2. Stop and think for one moment. If there were any validity to this, don't you think Rove and Rumsfeld would have been all over it long ago?

3. Keep wasting your time with this nonsense and you will not have a viable candidate to run in 2012.

Not to mention that if there was any problem, he wouldn't have been allowed to run in the first place.

And given the campaign that McCain/Palin ran, IMO Sarah would have been front and center with the so called REAL LIVE BIRTH CERTIFICATE showing that Obama had been born on Alpha Centauri......or where ever.

[Brat2002]

It is sad that some folks would stoop to anything to discredit the President of the United States - shame is about all that can be said about all or any of these people who do, in fact, lie.

The reality is President Obama won an election - all the paranoia and false accusations that can be levied by nut cases will not change that fact. That you or anyone else chooses to believe the nonsense reflects not on the President.

jmo

Wow, you're calling Obama's grandmother a nut case? I merely bought up how this may have started and you start in with the attacks. No one wants to comment on who is claiming that they witnessed his birth in Kenya. Why do you think they are saying this? Just curious.

[jaxback]

Thank you!

Now for any really wanting to fly away in a conspiracy, please explain who was ever so clever as to have placed that birth announcement in the Honolulu paper the day he was born, so many years ago. That would be one forward looking conspirer. jmg

RP, you know perfectly well that a really successful conspiracy is the kind that rooted at least forty years before it comes to fruition! :biggrin:

[watcher2005]

...

The reality is President Obama won an election - all the paranoia and false accusations that can be levied by nut cases will not change that fact. ...



I don't think they have claimed he didn't win.

[watcher2005]

Thank you!

Now for any really wanting to fly away in a conspiracy, please explain who was ever so clever as to have placed that birth announcement in the Honolulu paper the day he was born, so many years ago. That would be one forward looking conspirer. jmg


That's the first bit of objective evidence. Not necessarily conclusive. But it is objective evidence. The best evidence would be the "long form" birth certificate being asked for.

[ridrea]

Thank you!

Now for any really wanting to fly away in a conspiracy, please explain who was ever so clever as to have placed that birth announcement in the Honolulu paper the day he was born, so many years ago. That would be one forward looking conspirer. jmg

May I ask how you know the birth announcement was in the newspaper the day he was born?

[watcher2005]

Yes, and that (the birth certificate) too has been provided and certified. The two links provided above are as conclusive as possible, without having the document in my own hands to scan into this post.

Thanx again, to Sunshine@SC

I found it interesting that the link says that the birth question did not originate with "right wingers," didn't you?

But are those pictures of the long form? I really don't even know anymore.

The question raised is that people who were not born in Hawaii in addition to those born there could somehow get the "short form." There's been a lot of "answers" over the past year but not so many to that simple question.

Personally, I believe that it is there and that it is shrewd politically to generate a little mild obfuscation to make opponents look foolish at the eventual big reveal.

Unfortunately, asking questions to orthodoxy is a bad thing these days. To me, asking questions does not lend itself to particular answers, the mere asking is beneficial. But as is commonly pointed out around here, I am just one poster.

[Details]

May I ask how you know the birth announcement was in the newspaper the day he was born?The links been pointed out - but there are many places that report it. Some smart reporters went and looked in the archives of that time to see what they could find - and whaddya know - two separate birth announcements in two papers, in the old microfiche copies.

Although what more anyone needs than the one, unfalsifiable proof - the Hawaiian Department of Vital Records officially stating on the record that indeed Obama was born there, I just cannot imagine.

No form is better than that, no newspaper record, no nothing. We've got the birth certificate, we've got the newspaper announcements - but that really is the ultimate source.

[Details]

http://www.examiner.com/x-6665-Liberal-Examiner~y2009m7d18-Seriously-You-really-think-Obama-was-born-in-Kenya
...a statement by its director, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, as reported by PolitiFact:
...Therefore I, as director of health for the state of Hawaii, along with the registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

According to Janice Okubo, spokeswoman for the Hawaii Department of Health, "There's only one form of birth certificate. When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site. That's the birth certificate."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/01/obamas-birth-certificate-final-chapter-time-we-mea/
On Oct. 31, 2008, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii Department of Health, issued this statement: ..."No state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the state of Hawaii."

Even the governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle, a Republican who at the time was stumping for John McCain, said it was on the up-and-up.
...
As for the theory that Obama's original birth certificate might show he was foreign-born, Okubo (spokeswoman for the Hawaii Department of Health) said the "Certification of Live Birth" would say so. Obama's does not. Again, it says he was born in Honolulu.

[Details]

We talked to reporter Will Hoover, who wrote a well-researched story for the Honolulu Advertiser on Nov. 9, 2008, about Obama's childhood years in the the Aloha State. It ran under the headline "Obama Slept Here."

In researching the story, he went to the microfilm archives and found the birth announcement for Obama. Actually, he found two of them, one in his Honululu Advertiser on Aug. 13 , 1961, and in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin the next day . They both said the same thing: "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, son, Aug. 4."

But here's the thing. Newspaper officials he checked with confirmed those notices came from the state Department of Health.

"That's not the kind of stuff a family member calls in and says, 'Hey, can you put this in?'" Hoover explained. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/01/obamas-birth-certificate-final-chapter-time-we-mea/

[Details]

Same links, same facts, posted over and over again - and no doubt they'll be needed again - but here they are. Obama's birth in Hawaii has been proven beyond any doubt - you have to believe that 40 years ago the state Department of Health was bribed to put notices in a newspaper, that a very pregnant woman flew to another country, that the Republican governor of a Republican state who supported the other guy, along with two other civil servants, decided to lie about what is in Hawaii's records, to believe there's anything other than the obvious truth here. And you have to think all his political opponents, from Hillary Clinton, to McCain, the vetting board for Presidential candidates, the US Passport department, the departments that gave him his initial clearances when he became a Congressman, his schools all throughout his life, all decided not to bother uncovering this.

[PoppySeeds]

:blink: anyone care to parse/field this one? REAL LIVE BIRTH CERTIFICATE, not the certificate of live birth, which is not a BIRTH CERTIFICATE :blink:

In my state a Birth Certificate is issued for a birth in a hospital attended by a doctor or medical staff, a Certificate of Live Birth is issued for home births, or those births that are not attended by a medical staff (like a taxi cab birth).

[Details]

In my state a Birth Certificate is issued for a birth in a hospital attended by a doctor or medical staff, a Certificate of Live Birth is issued for home births, or those births that are not attended by a medical staff (like a taxi cab birth).According to Hawaii, there is no difference. They both show the same thing - whether or not you were born there. His says he was.

[Details]

When my oldest son was born, my parents had their local newspaper put the announcement in their paper.......and it was in a different state than where my son was born.

I also know of people who gave birth in a state different than their state of residence. It happens, but they like to place the announcement in their local paper.If you read my 81 post - these birth announcements did not come from the parents. They came from the state. Not something that could be called in from another location.

[PoppySeeds]

According to Hawaii, there is no difference. They both show the same thing - whether or not you were born there. His says he was.


Don't you think someone should tell his Grandmother that he was born in Hawaii and not, as she has stated in Kenya, with her present?

$2,000,000 is a lot of money to pay to keep records sealed if there is nothing to hide.

I can show a birth announcement for on of my children that was published in three states. Does that mean he was born in three states?

What fuels all the doubt is the lengths he has gone through to keep the records sealed, IMO.

[PoppySeeds]

If you read my 81 post - these birth announcements did not come from the parents. They came from the state. Not something that could be called in from another location.


And the health department will release the information when a birth is registered. Still not proof he was born there. IMO

[Details]

And the health department will release the information when a birth is registered. Still not proof he was born there. IMOOf course it is - and added to the statements of their department of records - it's absolute. The governor there, while campaigning for McCain, says Obama was born in Hawaii - he didn't have to say that. Every bit of evidence is there to prove overwhelmingly, many times over, that Obama was born there.

The newspaper announcements came from the government - not something they could just ask for.

[PoppySeeds]

Thanx, and they are both considered a birth certificate, yes?

I must admit that "REAL LIVE" part had me puzzled for a bit.

They both serve the same purpose, but they are not the same thing. A parent has, IRRC, up to six months to file a Certificate of Live Birth, and if I am not totally mistaken, that is the form that is used for adoption purposes. I seem to recall my brother (adopted at age three) had a Certificate of Live Birth and not a Birth Certificate.
Say, for instance, your child is born on the road during a vacation, in our state, you can elect to not register the birth until you return home.

[PoppySeeds]

Of course it is - and added to the statements of their department of records - it's absolute. The governor there, while campaigning for McCain, says Obama was born in Hawaii - he didn't have to say that. Every bit of evidence is there to prove overwhelmingly, many times over, that Obama was born there.

The newspaper announcements came from the government - not something they could just ask for.

In your opinion, but not in mine.
In my opinion, if it were such a clear and proven thing, Obama would not have spent $2,000,000 to keep the records sealed and hidden from the public.

[snookums1]

What I find sad is all of you non-dumb, non-pathetic, non-BIGOTS sit here day in and day out slamming people who provide links to what might be credible information about your saviour. What I don't see is credible links to a REAL LIVE BIRTH CERTIFICATE, not the certificate of live birth, which is not a BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

Hey, but carry on, because you're the ones who are hypocrital and dumb. LONG LIVE OBAMA, THE SAVIOUR OF AMERICA... (puke)My one and only birth certificate, the only one I have ever had says and I quote "certificate of live birth". Does that mean I, and everyone else born in this state, are not a citizens of the country in which I we were born?

Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said.

http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html



Obama's birth certificate: Final chapter

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

Here's what the DHLL site says now: "The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

[PoppySeeds]

PoppySeeds have you examined the documents provided in the two links by Sunshine@SC? IMO these do show that he was born in Honolulu ... what do you think?

I have a friend who has photo shopped identical documents to show that he is Malcolm Ralph Obama, and is Obama's twin.
I think anything is possible with all of the money that has gone to cover this up.

[Details]

Don't you think someone should tell his Grandmother that he was born in Hawaii and not, as she has stated in Kenya, with her present?

$2,000,000 is a lot of money to pay to keep records sealed if there is nothing to hide.

I can show a birth announcement for on of my children that was published in three states. Does that mean he was born in three states?

What fuels all the doubt is the lengths he has gone through to keep the records sealed, IMO.He has done nothing to keep records sealed. They've stated that as well - that there is nothing different being done to Obama's records than anyone else's. He's presented his birth certificate as he should - there is nothing else, and no need to waste time giving proof to those who accept no proof.

As to Grandma's statement - I wouldn't take it as meaning anything against proof he was born in Hawaii - especially since she could be speaking of his father, she could be mixing up her many grandchildren, or she could be simply misremembering. Doesn't really matter.

Your birth announcement didn't come from the state, right? You called it in? This one was verified as coming from the state.

Although you seem to be ducking the most solid evidence - the department of records looked it up, and confirmed - he was born in Hawaii. What's the explanation for that one? Grand conspiracy between the Hawaiian governor who cleverly campaigns for McCain to appear neutral, the director of health for the state of Hawaii, along with the registrar of Vital Statistics, to all lie about the true records?

Yep, 40 years ago, a grand conspiracy started, by placing some birth announcements (obviously bribing the state board of health back then to place them), and starting 3 people on the path to become governor and the registrar and the director of health, forcing the one to become governor to pretend to be a Republican for his entire political life, so that on this one day he can claim Obama is a citizen!



I dunno - I guess it keeps some people busy.

[jaxback]

I have a friend who has photo shopped identical documents to show that he is Malcolm Ralph Obama, and is Obama's twin.
I think anything is possible with all of the money that has gone to cover this up.

Link to "all the money" please?

And I think anything is possible for some people to bevlieve if they work hard enough to come up with a conspiracy where there isn't one. jmo

[Details]

They both serve the same purpose, but they are not the same thing. A parent has, IRRC, up to six months to file a Certificate of Live Birth, and if I am not totally mistaken, that is the form that is used for adoption purposes. I seem to recall my brother (adopted at age three) had a Certificate of Live Birth and not a Birth Certificate.
Say, for instance, your child is born on the road during a vacation, in our state, you can elect to not register the birth until you return home.Your statements and guesses and recollections do not match what Hawaiian officials say is true in Hawaii.

According to Janice Okubo, spokeswoman for the Hawaii Department of Health, "There's only one form of birth certificate. When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site. That's the birth certificate."http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/01/obamas-birth-certificate-final-chapter-time-we-mea/

[PoppySeeds]

:lol: now we are starting to split hairs.

Two documents, two situations, but both a form of ID.

In the case in question, the document appears to be quite clear that Obama was born 8/4/61 in Honolulu, Hawaii imo


It's an outdated system of records. I live in a state where there are hill people who have children and wait for weeks to make sure the children will actually live before they record the birth.
I was just answering your question as to the difference in the two types of forms.

[Details]

In your opinion, but not in mine.
In my opinion, if it were such a clear and proven thing, Obama would not have spent $2,000,000 to keep the records sealed and hidden from the public.Link?

Because they've said he has done nothing to seal the records. Nor have I seen anything other than paranoid ranting and some people counting the campaigns entire budget for lawyers as all being about this to say he's spent anything really at all on this silly game.

I see you've no reason why you think the governor, registrar, and director all are willing to lie, in your opinion?

[snookums1]

I guess in 1961, the state of Hawaii knew that Obama would someday run for president, therefore the put false data into their records claiming that Obama was born in Honolulu, on the Island of Oahu, at 7:24PM. How astute of them to know that many years ahead that there would be a silly dispute and therefore they documented false evidence.

[snookums1]

And please, don't forget to add with the complicity of the two major newspapers that printed the birth announcement, Aug 1961. Yes amazing that they were that clairvoyient and conspired to lie way back then.

[PoppySeeds]

Yes, in your state. But the state in question here is Hawaii - have you examined the documents provided in the links by Sunshine@SC?

I have examined documents from both sides of the debate, and have found enough to make me have questions.
When there are people who go to this extent:


http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/07/obama-scrubs-the-web-of-all-birth-docs.html

to prove a point, I have to wonder why.

[snookums1]

I have examined documents from both sides of the debate, and have found enough to make me have questions.
When there are people who go to this extent:


http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/07/obama-scrubs-the-web-of-all-birth-docs.html

to prove a point, I have to wonder why.

There are laws regarding the release of medical records. If that hospital released records without authorization, they broke the law.

[snookums1]

Barack Obama ordered his records sealed? :rolleyes:

How would a Senator from Illinois do that?Actually, it is even more ridiculous than that. Here is what the nutjobs are claiming:

Original, vault copy birth certificate -- Not released
Certificate of Live Birth -- Released -- Counterfeit
Obama/Dunham marriage license -- Not released

Obama/Dunham divorce -- Released (by independent investigators)
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license -- Not released
Soetoro adoption records -- Not released

Soetoro/Dunham divorce -- Released (by independent investigators)
Fransiskus Assisi School School application -- Released (by independent investigators)
Punahou School records -- Not released
Selective Service Registration -- Released -- Counterfeit
Occidental College records -- Not released
Passport -- Not released and records scrubbed clean by Obama's terrorism and intelligence adviser.
Columbia College records -- Not released
Columbia thesis -- Not released
Harvard College records -- Not released
Harvard Law Review articles -- None
Baptism certificate -- None
Medical records -- Not released
Illinois State Senate records -- None
Illinois State Senate schedule -- Lost
Law practice client list -- Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None

[Details]

Barack Obama ordered his records sealed? :rolleyes:

How would a Senator from Illinois do that?It wasn't "reported" that he sealed his records - it was rumored and speculated by a few - nothing more. And the Hawaiian officials say there is nothing special being done to Obama's records - they're being treated like every other record in the place. Not sealed, only as private as every other record, as much to be preserved, not handed around for silly games, any more than any other record.

[A-hem_1]

I was born in CA and my birth certificate says "Certificate of Live Birth"

My son was born in CA and says "Certificate of Live Birth"

both of us were born in the hospital.

How many times has this "Obama is not a natural born citizen" going to surface?

[Details]

I was born in CA and my birth certificate says "Certificate of Live Birth"

My son was born in CA and says "Certificate of Live Birth"

both of us were born in the hospital.

How many times has this "Obama is not a natural born citizen" going to surface?Weeellllll - I think it's a good thing.

You see - this thing surfaces because they've got no dirt on Obama. Nothing to work with. Nothing to attack. So this old silly game is the best they can do. So long as Obama remains a good, competent, ethical, excellent President - you can expect this to keep coming up. If they had something real, they'd be going with that.

[Lynden1000]

I was born in CA and my birth certificate says "Certificate of Live Birth"

My son was born in CA and says "Certificate of Live Birth"

both of us were born in the hospital.

How many times has this "Obama is not a natural born citizen" going to surface?

It will never go away for the simple reason that the party that doesn't win cannot accept this fact and must go to great lengths to explain that the winner did so fraudently.

The RW is doing now with this citizenship claim. The LW did it in 2000 when they were claiming that Republicans stole the election, rigged the election, set up roadblocks to prevent minority voters from voting, etc.

It's just a large-scale version of that natural human tendency to do whatever possible to save face.

[A-hem_1]

Weeellllll - I think it's a good thing.

You see - this thing surfaces because they've got no dirt on Obama. Nothing to work with. Nothing to attack. So this old silly game is the best they can do. So long as Obama remains a good, competent, ethical, excellent President - you can expect this to keep coming up. If they had something real, they'd be going with that.

Well, hopefully when my son becomes president all of this "Birth Certificate vs Certificate of Birth" is all ironed out. :wink:

[snookums1]

Doubt the hospital is in any jeopardy. From that same blog: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/07/obama-scrubs-the-web-of-all-birth-docs.html


:lol: What is it about that caveat that says BS? Yeppers, ya don't wanna bore us with the details, just get that ol' assertion out there and fast. Is that like an IMO post without a link or what? I googled 'Obama has birth records sealed' and the only thing that came up were rightwing blogs with as much credibility as the one that was linked. Not one official site or reputable source.

[snookums1]

Well, hopefully when my son becomes president all of this "Birth Certificate vs Certificate of Birth" is all ironed out. :wink: Did you conspire to have his birth announced in a couple newspapers so you can use them as proof of where he was born when he becomes president?

[Len]

video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1nmn2zRMc&e) These people aren't buying Obama being a US citizen.



LOL. Real funny. Someone should give this woman in the video a dollar for her performance.

[A-hem_1]

Did you conspire to have his birth announced in a couple newspapers so you can use them as proof of where he was born when he becomes president?

Ha ha ha absolutely!!!

[Circe]

It will never go away for the simple reason that the party that doesn't win cannot accept this fact and must go to great lengths to explain that the winner did so fraudently.

The RW is doing now with this citizenship claim. The LW did it in 2000 when they were claiming that Republicans stole the election, rigged the election, set up roadblocks to prevent minority voters from voting, etc.

It's just a large-scale version of that natural human tendency to do whatever possible to save face.

Well, they have a right to get their knickers in a knot, the poor things.......after all Rove promised that the Republicans would be in power in perpetuity........he had the math!!!! :tonguewag:

Yeah, the Left went a little bonkers, but not IMO, to the extent that some of the folks on the far edge of the right are. You would not believe some of the things I've seen posted around the net on various blogs and boards like this one. There are some truly scary folks out there, and they all hate Obama.......and a lot of them have guns.

[ridrea]

Sure, the link in post #61, scroll to the bottom of the article and there is a copy of the announcement. Two major Honolulu papers from August 1961, announcing his birth as 8/4/1961.

The family could send in a birth announcement, they were not reported by the hospitals to the newspapers like now and it could have been entered anytime in August, like weeks after the 4th. In 1961 the Hawaiian law allowed a mother to register a birth. There is nothing legitimate about that copy of announcement at that link.
Obama has created all the doubts himself by sealing so many documents such as his college transcripts. There are too many unanswered questions!

[ridrea]

Don't you think someone should tell his Grandmother that he was born in Hawaii and not, as she has stated in Kenya, with her present?

$2,000,000 is a lot of money to pay to keep records sealed if there is nothing to hide.

I can show a birth announcement for on of my children that was published in three states. Does that mean he was born in three states?

What fuels all the doubt is the lengths he has gone through to keep the records sealed, IMO.

Exactly! He has created all the questions himself!!

[Re-Poe]

I totaly believe BO is a natural born American citizen.

However, I wouldn't care if he was a Purple Martian Kangaroo Satanist if he can come up with some ideas to get us out of this mess. It will take a World collaboration. BO is working on that.

JMO

Right on SlickLime. ITA.

[jaxback]

Don't you think someone should tell his Grandmother that he was born in Hawaii and not, as she has stated in Kenya, with her present?

$2,000,000 is a lot of money to pay to keep records sealed if there is nothing to hide.

I can show a birth announcement for on of my children that was published in three states. Does that mean he was born in three states?

What fuels all the doubt is the lengths he has gone through to keep the records sealed, IMO.


Where did you get the $2M figure?

[Details]

The family could send in a birth announcement, they were not reported by the hospitals to the newspapers like now and it could have been entered anytime in August, like weeks after the 4th. In 1961 the Hawaiian law allowed a mother to register a birth. There is nothing legitimate about that copy of announcement at that link.
Obama has created all the doubts himself by sealing so many documents such as his college transcripts. There are too many unanswered questions!Nope. The reporter checked - the announcement came from Hawaii's gov't, not from the family, not from the hospital. I posted the link and story on this a little bit back.

And Obama hasn't sealed a thing. All of the officials in this Republican state have said as much - that his birth certificate is valid, that they have the record of his birth IN HAWAII on record, and that there is nothing being done to his records differently than any other record.

[ridrea]

Nope. The reporter checked - the announcement came from Hawaii's gov't, not from the family, not from the hospital. I posted the link and story on this a little bit back.

And Obama hasn't sealed a thing. All of the officials in this Republican state have said as much - that his birth certificate is valid, that they have the record of his birth IN HAWAII on record, and that there is nothing being done to his records differently than any other record.

So you are taking the reporters word as facts? The only way I'd believe all that 'reporting' would be to hear it in a federal court under oath.

Do you really think there are no liberals in Hawaii?

[Details]

So you are taking the reporters word as facts? The only way I'd believe all that 'reporting' would be to hear it in a federal court under oath.

Do you really think there are no liberals in Hawaii?The governor in question is a Republican who was supporting McCain. The others - it's non-partisan offices - but you have to have all 3 conspire to create that false report. Really? You really think that? A Republican governor, and two separate high level manager types?

Yes, I do take the reporter's word, until someone contradicts it - reporters report. That's what they do - every fact we have in this is either from a reporter reporting what they saw - or even less credible rumors.

What does your 'side' have? Nothing in a federal court under oath. Nothing at all. Not even info from reporters. A bunch of rumors and theories that the Hawaiian gov't says is wrong at every single point. You have to have every single one of those people in on your conspiracy for it to work - and that's ridiculous.

[Details]

Just because someone runs for office using an R or a D after their name, means absolutely nothing in this day and age. They way they vote and they way they change parties when it benefits them politically, has convinced me there is no longer a two party system.

IMOYeah, right. He campaigns for McCain as part of a clever scheme to put Obama in office, as several career bureaucrat lie and risk their careers and criminal charges about the existence of a document in a massive conspiracy, and no one ever tells the truth - and at the same time, a reporter is lying, let's see - everyone is lying, unless it fits the conspiracy, no matter how crazy the source.

[Details]

Just because someone runs for office using an R or a D after their name, means absolutely nothing in this day and age. They way they vote and they way they change parties when it benefits them politically, has convinced me there is no longer a two party system.

IMOYeah, this is definitely someone about to turn Democrat, clearly a secret Obama supporter:http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/oct/16/hawaii-governor-says-nation-wouldnt-be-safe-under-/
(Governor) Lingle, though, repeatedly framed the presidential election in terms of the physical safety of Americans and painted Obama as a mysterious figure who is uncomfortable with leadership.

She said voting for Obama would put the safety of the country’s children in the “hands of someone we hardly know.” (She also added that despite Obama’s touting he is from Hawaii, she has never met him and he has “never called me on the phone.”)And this person - for all she says the nation would not be safe with Obama as President - she's saying he was indeed born in Hawaii.

And now that he's in office - she's still no fan: http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/12013/40/ A few months ago Lingle said if Obama were elected, his plans would devastate our economy. Well, Tuesday was a chance for her to share her ideas with the President-Elect, but she declined the opportunity.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Interesting that President Obama met with the leader of the Mormon churh and was presented with a complete family history. imo

[ridrea]

The governor in question is a Republican who was supporting McCain. The others - it's non-partisan offices - but you have to have all 3 conspire to create that false report. Really? You really think that? A Republican governor, and two separate high level manager types?

Yes, I do take the reporter's word, until someone contradicts it - reporters report. That's what they do - every fact we have in this is either from a reporter reporting what they saw - or even less credible rumors.

What does your 'side' have? Nothing in a federal court under oath. Nothing at all. Not even info from reporters. A bunch of rumors and theories that the Hawaiian gov't says is wrong at every single point. You have to have every single one of those people in on your conspiracy for it to work - and that's ridiculous.
I'm not taking sides, there are too many unanswered questions. The liberals are trying to ignore the subject but there is something missing! Do you think for one second that the public is told everything that goes on in the government, only what they want us to know. Obama wrote those books to put out as much info as he wanted known, hoping to avoid many details. There's about 8 yrs. missing in his stories, we really do not know him!

[Brentwood]

:no: :no: I refuse, I refuse, I refuse

Please ..... no way can I scroll back, yet again, look at those documents, yet again, and attempt one more time to bring daylight to the darkside.

Face it Details, we are all lying and I joined the conspiracy before I was born. My parents don't love me, they never loved me. They just had me to add one more to the conspiracy.

And since Dick Cheney and Obama are cousins, then Cheney wasn't really the vice president. So Cheney must be in on the conspiracy too :biggrinjester:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/10/just-how-closel.html

[Carol25]

Sure, the link in post #61, scroll to the bottom of the article and there is a copy of the announcement. Two major Honolulu papers from August 1961, announcing his birth as 8/4/1961.
Was it in the actual 1961 newspaper or on microfilm?

[Carol25]

Couldn't this all be settled by seeing and analyzing the long form of the birth certificate? Analyzing the date of the paper and the ink and signatures. No sealed birth certificates, everyone would be happy.

No questions left to ask. If some can't be certain of the nationality of our president, then it is serious. Let's be sure, then put it to rest. Why would anyone object to that?

[Carol25]

The word is microfiche, but please, call Hawaii. Am sure some packrat can provide you with a copy.


Or, well dang, ya could OPEN the link and read it. I hope.

I did. It looked like microfiche. Can that be altered?

[Details]

Couldn't this all be settled by seeing and analyzing the long form of the birth certificate? Analyzing the date of the paper and the ink and signatures. No sealed birth certificates, everyone would be happy.

No questions left to ask. If some can't be certain of the nationality of our president, then it is serious. Let's be sure, then put it to rest. Why would anyone object to that?There is nothing sealed, nothing abnormal. And the experts have analyzed it - the registrar and the director - the people responsible for the records. The mere fact that it's there proves the point.

You really think there would be any change in people's opinion? If they think the governor, the registrar, and the director are all lying, they'll think anything that turns up is a fake too - just as they all said and still say Obama's current birth certificate is a fake - even as Hawaii says this is what they issued and it's real.


This is nonsense, and not worth wasting time on, other than for amusement value. The thing about a conspiracy theory is that it never ends. Any proof is only proof of how far the conspiracy goes, and is never enough. They wanted the birth certificate, Obama presented it. They claimed it wasn't a true birth certificate, they could see where it was photoshopped, the seal wasn't there, etc. It was presented for examination to a few reporters - yep, seal was there, another Hawaiian birth certificate was compared to it - same exact layout. Nope, still not good enough. The governor, the director, the registrar all come up and say Obama was born there - and they started asking for the originals and the hospital records. It's the usual bit - any proof presented just means the target shifts.

You really think anyone who is believing the governor who campaigned for McCain, said our economy and our safety would be destroyed under Obama, is merely part of the conspiracy - anyone who believes that - has any rational ability to let one more piece of paper change their mind? Nope. The date on the ink - oh, the expert is part of the conspiracy. Oh, and look at that smudge, obvious photoshopping there. The seal - it's the wrong color! And where are those hospital records?



More than enough evidence to prove Obama was born here has been given - the microfiche, the word of the people who keep the records, the word of the governor, his birth certificate (the official form, the real one the government uses). I'm more sure he was born here than that I was. Beyond that - there's nothing useful to continue trying to convince people who have proved they will not be convinced.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Obama meets with Mormon leader, gets detailed genealogical records for family

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-us-obama-mormon-leader,0,1999893.story

AP

That should clear things.

[Lynden1000]

There is nothing sealed, nothing abnormal. And the experts have analyzed it - the registrar and the director - the people responsible for the records. The mere fact that it's there proves the point.

You really think there would be any change in people's opinion? If they think the governor, the registrar, and the director are all lying, they'll think anything that turns up is a fake too - just as they all said and still say Obama's current birth certificate is a fake - even as Hawaii says this is what they issued and it's real.


This is nonsense, and not worth wasting time on, other than for amusement value. The thing about a conspiracy theory is that it never ends. Any proof is only proof of how far the conspiracy goes, and is never enough. They wanted the birth certificate, Obama presented it. They claimed it wasn't a true birth certificate, they could see where it was photoshopped, the seal wasn't there, etc. It was presented for examination to a few reporters - yep, seal was there, another Hawaiian birth certificate was compared to it - same exact layout. Nope, still not good enough. The governor, the director, the registrar all come up and say Obama was born there - and they started asking for the originals and the hospital records. It's the usual bit - any proof presented just means the target shifts.

You really think anyone who is believing the governor who campaigned for McCain, said our economy and our safety would be destroyed under Obama, is merely part of the conspiracy - anyone who believes that - has any rational ability to let one more piece of paper change their mind? Nope. The date on the ink - oh, the expert is part of the conspiracy. Oh, and look at that smudge, obvious photoshopping there. The seal - it's the wrong color! And where are those hospital records?



More than enough evidence to prove Obama was born here has been given - the microfiche, the word of the people who keep the records, the word of the governor, his birth certificate (the official form, the real one the government uses). I'm more sure he was born here than that I was. Beyond that - there's nothing useful to continue trying to convince people who have proved they will not be convinced.

Excellent post.

Researchers have shown time and time again that humans will go to extraordinary lengths to avoid altering their beliefs, even when presented with evidence. It's almost comical when we see it in action with the conspiracy theorists.

[emdragon]

The family could send in a birth announcement, they were not reported by the hospitals to the newspapers like now and it could have been entered anytime in August, like weeks after the 4th. In 1961 the Hawaiian law allowed a mother to register a birth. There is nothing legitimate about that copy of announcement at that link.
Obama has created all the doubts himself by sealing so many documents such as his college transcripts. There are too many unanswered questions!

One more time for those who missed it-- 2 of my daughters and a nephew were born in Hawaii if my sister and I were to send for the BC now we would in fact get exactly what Obama has.

And as a matter of fact when I sent for my youngest BC in Washington State I also got the exact same thing as what Obama has.

A birth certificate and a Certificate of live birth are BOTH proof of when and where you were born- one does not carry any more weight than the other.

(the birth announcement could have been submitted months after the birth big deal- why would anyone fake an announcement 47 years ago?)

the lack of simple logic by some is truly an astounding thing.

[Circe]

One more time for those who missed it-- 2 of my daughters and a nephew were born in Hawaii if my sister and I were to send for the BC now we would in fact get exactly what Obama has.

And as a matter of fact when I sent for my youngest BC in Washington State I also got the exact same thing as what Obama has.

A birth certificate and a Certificate of live birth are BOTH proof of when and where you were born- one does not carry any more weight than the other.

(the birth announcement could have been submitted months after the birth big deal- why would anyone fake an announcement 47 years ago?)

the lack of simple logic by some is truly an astounding thing.

Logic has nothing to do with this whole conspiracy theory.......fear, hatred and plain old being a bunch of sore losers does.

(And after eight years of hearing it, I get great satisfaction in saying, "He won, get over it!" )

[PoppySeeds]

Has this been mentioned? John McCain was not born in the US.

I thought it didn't matter where you were born, but the nationality of your parents. Even if BO was born in Kenya, his Mother was a US citizen. The decision would come when the child chooses at the age of majority. I could be wrong.

Anyway, I believe BO was born in Hawaii. It's sad his Mother and GrandMother did not live to see this accomplishment.

But McCain was born on a military compound/base, therefore, in the eyes of the national law, on American soil.

[Re-Poe]

But McCain was born on a military compound/base, therefore, in the eyes of the national law, on American soil.

How convenient for McCain. He is a loophole baby. LOL imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-onthemedia22-2009jul22,0,3061950.column

Never mind that the good major appears in this instance to be more agent provocateur than man of arms or that he is represented by Orly Taitz, an Orange County attorney (and dentist) who has made it her life's work to prove Obama isn't one of us.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Has this been mentioned? John McCain was not born in the US.

I thought it didn't matter where you were born, but the nationality of your parents. Even if BO was born in Kenya, his Mother was a US citizen. The decision would come when the child chooses at the age of majority. I could be wrong.

Anyway, I believe BO was born in Hawaii. It's sad his Mother and GrandMother did not live to see this accomplishment.

Barack Obama never filed a declaration. AFAIK

[emdragon]

Barack Obama never filed a declaration. AFAIK

Never filed a Declaration of what? Hawaii was a state he was born in the US no need for any declaration.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Never filed a Declaration of what? Hawaii was a state he was born in the US no need for any declaration.
True but I was replying to the post above suggesting he may have been able to declare.

The decision would come when the child chooses at the age of majority.

Please see complete post I was replying to for more information. TIA

[jaxback]

Barack Obama never filed a declaration. AFAIK

Re-read the post you were answering to. If you are born in the U.S. there is NO DECLARATION NEEDED.

Last I heard, Hawaii was in the U.S. despite the fact that it's an island far, far away.:rolleyes:

[Lady_Jean_La]

Never filed a Declaration of what? Hawaii was a state he was born in the US no need for any declaration.Couldn't Barack Obama declare to be a Kenyan?

[jaxback]

Couldn't Barack Obama declare to be a Kenyan?

??? If my father was born in the UK but I was born in Arizona, could I "declare" myself a British citizen?

And why would he, anyway? He was born in Hawaii, which makes him an American citizen. Some people will undoubtedly keep trying to make this an issue, but it isn't. So what are you really asking? Just curious.

[Lady_Jean_La]

??? If my father was born in the UK but I was born in Arizona, could I "declare" myself a British citizen?

And why would he, anyway? He was born in Hawaii, which makes him an American citizen. Some people will undoubtedly keep trying to make this an issue, but it isn't. So what are you really asking? Just curious.
Yes and so could Barack Obama. He has admitted he was born with dual citizenship and the Supreme Court has not ruled on this area but many legal scholars do not believe a dual citizen qualifies as a natural born citizen. At the time of his birth Kenya was part of the British Empire and Barack would be eliegible to British citizenship. He also went to Indonesia and attended school for Indonesians.

There are many possibilities. imo

[Brentwood]

How convenient for McCain. He is a loophole baby. LOL imo

It is true that our military bases in foreign lands qualify as U.S. soil (also embassies and consulates). BUT....The Act of Congress that eventually incorporated this [bases qualify as US soil] was enacted 2 years AFTER McCain was born. So McCain is not a loophole baby because he was born 2 years before it was enacted. IMO, McCain is a full citizen even though he was not born on US soil.

Obama is obviously a natural born citizen, born in Hawaii.

[Brentwood]

Yes and so could Barack Obama. He has admitted he was born with dual citizenship and the Supreme Court has not ruled on this area but many legal scholars do not believe a dual citizen qualifies as a natural born citizen. At the time of his birth Kenya was part of the British Empire and Barack would be eliegible to British citizenship. He also went to Indonesia and attended school for Indonesians.

There are many possibilities. imo

More baseless rumors.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html

[Lady_Jean_La]

Pentagon orders soldier fired for challenging prez
Army warrior terminated from job after questioning Obama eligibility

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104044

According to the CEO of Simtech Inc., a private company located in Tampa, Fla., and contracted by the Defense Security Services, an agency of the Department of Defense, the federal government has compelled the termination of Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook.

[jaxback]

Yes and so could Barack Obama. He has admitted he was born with dual citizenship and the Supreme Court has not ruled on this area but many legal scholars do not believe a dual citizen qualifies as a natural born citizen. At the time of his birth Kenya was part of the British Empire and Barack would be eliegible to British citizenship. He also went to Indonesia and attended school for Indonesians.

There are many possibilities. imo

Is your point that you don't believe he is an American citizen?

[jaxback]

More baseless rumors.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html

Thank you Brentwood, but I suspect that the time you spent verifiying the facts will have been wasted on those who don't want to accept the truth. They only seem to like so-called "plain talk" when it confirms their misguided and incorrect theories. :wink:

[Lady_Jean_La]

Is your point that you don't believe he is an American citizen?
I have no idea. But I think the question is about being a natural born citizen. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

“For Ghana, Obama’s visit will be a celebration of another milestone in African history as it hosts the first-ever African-American President on this presidential visit to the continent of his birth.”

http://www.thecitizen.com/~citizen0/node/38106

Why the Ghanaian news outlet would report that Obama was born on the continent of Africa, when this would instantly invalidate his entire presidency, is unclear.

[jaxback]

BINGO .... however, as CW is the final word on TOS ... comes a point the "question" is no longer a question, and repeatingly raising a disproven fact is indeed a lie.

Legally speaking in America a person is citizen, whether born in Hawaii or Alabama; we have neither castes nor 'levels' of citizenship. Or, when parsing and non sequitur rise to the level of such nonsense as we have seen from the "birthers."

Exactly what you said, dude(tte). If the choice is to beat a dead horse or beat my head against a brick wall, I choose. . . neither. Enough with the beating metaphors and this topic. As my gov would say, hasta la vista baby. :wink:

[daniel green]

MATTHEWS: He [Obama] wasn’t born here and he’s never gone through a naturalization that you know of, right?

LIDDY: Not that I know of.

MATTHEWS: Therefore he’s here illegally. You’re saying he’s an undocumented alien.

LIDDY: Illegal alien.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/23/gordan-liddy-birther/

[Susan43]

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/23/gordan-liddy-birther/

:lol::lol: I saw him say that. Pretty funny huh? I just wish that the other guest had more facts, like the fact that the tape of his grandmother in Kenya was misquoted. Or that every state sends out the "Certificate of Live Birth" the same way that HI does. I have mine from CA and it looks just like the HI certificate. This is the certificate that you need to get a passport.

[daniel green]

The whole idea is nutty. But this one was a real jumptheshark moment. :biggrin:

[ortiga]

The whole idea is nutty. But this one was a real jumptheshark moment. :biggrin:

I just saw on MSNBC, hardball, that Lou Dobbs is saying on his radio show Obama is "undocumented". So apparently it's a talking point amongst the fringe now.

[Patriot]

Where there's smoke there's fire. MO

Yep. Funny how those old sayings of our grandparents are true, ain't it? Yet you'll just hear more mocking and name calling of "fools" and "stupid" and zero answers to the valid points that are brought up, other than that there's a birth announcement which "proves" he was born here and that Director somebody-or-other in Hawaii has stated that he has seen the birth certificate, lol. Those fall under the "keep throwing it against the wall and hope it sticks" category, lol. I'm glad the issue is staying in the forefront as there are many unanswered questions regarding it. Funny, all Obama has to do is give permission to have the birth certificate released, yet he hires lawyers instead. :shrug:

[Details]

Where there's smoke there's fire. MOWhere there's smoke, there's a bunch of people waving torches trying to create the illusion of a fire.

[theal3]

The Director of Health and the Republican Governor of Hawaii has confirmed the original birth certificate. And Liddy still thinks he's an illegal alien. Liddy, IMHO looked like a doddering old fool. Liddy of the Watergate era, convicted crimminal, he must be in his 80s for crying out loud. He seemed confused to me.

[Patriot]

Why would two newspapers publish the birth announcement if it weren't true he was born there? Were his parents already scheming to get him the position of POTUS some day? That would be just amazing. :confused:


That's already been addressed in every Obama birth topic on the board. If you do a search, I'm sure you will find it and realize what exactly a birth announcement in a newspaper is and is not. :) Provided you can wade through the name calling and insults posted at the 'other side', as there have never been any answers offered to the valid points brought up, so I guess name calling and insults is all there is, in spite of the TOS. :)

[Details]

Yep. Funny how those old sayings of our grandparents are true, ain't it? Yet you'll just hear more mocking and name calling of "fools" and "stupid" and zero answers to the valid points that are brought up, other than that there's a birth announcement which "proves" he was born here and that Director somebody-or-other in Hawaii has stated that he has seen the birth certificate, lol. Those fall under the "keep throwing it against the wall and hope it sticks" category, lol. I'm glad the issue is staying in the forefront as there are many unanswered questions regarding it. Funny, all Obama has to do is give permission to have the birth certificate released, yet he hires lawyers instead. :shrug:These are the real facts you find so funny.

Yes, indeed, the key authorities in Hawaii have said they've checked their records, and the Director and the Registrar have said their records show Obama was born in Hawaii. There is no piece of paper more sure than their statements - these are the ultimate authorities. A released piece of paper can be questioned - and of course will be subject to the same claims as Obama's REAL birth certificate that he already released. The records these men have access to, that they do not release, that are the official records - that's the ULTIMATE source. Not photoshoppable, not questionable.

Yes, the newspaper announcements are important and solid proof by themselves. They came from the Hawaii Department of Health, not something a family can call in, proof all by themselves Obama was born there.

No, there's nothing else to release - the official, real birth certificate has been shown. That is what is official. That is what proves you were born in America. There are no other valid points. The governor of Hawaii - an avid campaigner for McCain, even during the campaign, stated that Obama was born in Hawaii. There is quite simply no rational reason for doubt.

[Patriot]

I just love G. Gordon Liddy. I highly recommend his book - "When I was a kid, this was a free country" - great read. :)

http://www.amazon.com/When-Was-This-Free-Country/dp/0895261065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248401268&sr=1-2

[Details]

Why would two newspapers publish the birth announcement if it weren't true he was born there? Were his parents already scheming to get him the position of POTUS some day? That would be just amazing. :confused:The birth announcements didn't come from his parents, nor his family. They came directly from the Hawaiian Department of Health - something they did automatically in those days, report all births to the local papers. The same reporter who found the announcements checked on where they came from.

[Patriot]

These are the real facts you find so funny.

Yes, indeed, the key authorities in Hawaii have said they've checked their records, and the Director and the Registrar have said their records show Obama was born in Hawaii. There is no piece of paper more sure than their statements - these are the ultimate authorities. A released piece of paper can be questioned - and of course will be subject to the same claims as Obama's REAL birth certificate that he already released. The records these men have access to, that they do not release, that are the official records - that's the ULTIMATE source. Not photoshoppable, not questionable.

Yes, the newspaper announcements are important and solid proof by themselves. They came from the Hawaii Department of Health, not something a family can call in, proof all by themselves Obama was born there.

No, there's nothing else to release - the official, real birth certificate has been shown. That is what is official. That is what proves you were born in America. There are no other valid points. The governor of Hawaii - an avid campaigner for McCain, even during the campaign, stated that Obama was born in Hawaii. There is quite simply no rational reason for doubt.


What's funny is how this issue brings out such anger and fear. And the same old namecalling - "doddering old fool", lol. Every time the issue is brought up on the board, it's same 'ole, same 'ole and so telling.

Yes, I get it. Some men said they have seen it, lol. "The ultimate authority". "solid proof". "unquestionable". "no reason for doubt". No links to any of it though, lol. Meanwhile, the 'other side' has posted multiple, credible links to their arguements. Just easier to call them "stupid" and "fools" I guess.

[Patriot]

I know exactly what a birth announcement is, but thanks. I've even submitted info for one. Place of birth, sex, name, parents, date. Actually, I did it while still in the hospital. A volunteer came around and they collected all the info from anyone who wished it announced. But thanks again .... don't know why there'd be any name-calling over something so simple.

I don't know either. But check out the last topic about this - it was moved for some reason to the poll and 'other comments' area - the discussion was going pretty well until someone came in and declared that anyone who believes other than them is a "fool" and "stupid". It rapidly went downhill from there with nothing but mocking and name calling, and no answers to the links provided. There obviously is not going to be any honest discussion on the issue, so I bowed out, put several on 'ignore' and moved on, as I will do with this one as well. Goodnight. :)

[MiamiNice1]

Yep. Funny how those old sayings of our grandparents are true, ain't it? Yet you'll just hear more mocking and name calling of "fools" and "stupid" and zero answers to the valid points that are brought up, other than that there's a birth announcement which "proves" he was born here and that Director somebody-or-other in Hawaii has stated that he has seen the birth certificate, lol. Those fall under the "keep throwing it against the wall and hope it sticks" category, lol. I'm glad the issue is staying in the forefront as there are many unanswered questions regarding it. Funny, all Obama has to do is give permission to have the birth certificate released, yet he hires lawyers instead. :shrug:

(bolding mine) That is exactly what I wanted to say -

1) I'm glad people like G. Gordon Liddy and Lou Dobbs are keeping this in the forefront. Obama needs to account.

2) Why can't Obama just have it RELEASED instead of allowing the controversy to go on? Why the lawyers? Why the cost? Why the drama?

What is so hard about producing a legitimate Birth Certificate if it is indeed legitimate?

imo

[Brentwood]

The rw is spinning further and further into the fringe. Keep up the good work! Down, down, down the drain they go.

Obama was born in Hawaii....fact!

[Details]

You would think that Obama would want to put this silliness to rest once and for all by waiving his certified long form birth certificate in front of all the naysayers. Can't figure out why he hasn't. Once and for all.

:confused:Hmmm - at first, it was why don't you present your birth certificate. So he did. And they insisted it was fake, wrong color, photoshopped, no seal, etc. So some other people were allowed to look at it - and it was the exact same color as every other Hawaiian birth certificate, had the seal on the back just as the other did, etc. Nope - not good enough, had to be a fake - so the Hawaiian officials stepped up and verified - yes, this is it, it's real.

So now the target is moving again. Were a long form accessible (and it may not be - Hawaii has said they don't keep the originals forever, just the data), it'd be just the same thing. And it's pointless - the one thing required to run for President is to be a natural born citizen. Obama's official birth certificate proves that he is. That is the end of this. Presenting more documents won't silence naysayers - they'll have 50 reasons why it is fake, why it's so suspicious that the doctor dotted his I's on the left side one time, but on the right side the second time, etc. It's useless. More than enough information has been presented to allay any rational doubts. There's just nothing to be gained by feeding a frenzy that will never be satiated - if the form even exists anymore.

You have your long form? Because - if so - try presenting it. It's proof of nothing. You cannot get a passport with it, it won't help you anywhere. It's a souvenir, nothing more. He's proven his birthplace - that is all that should be done.

[MiamiNice1]

You would think that Obama would want to put this silliness to rest once and for all by waiving his certified long form birth certificate in front of all the naysayers. Can't figure out why he hasn't. Once and for all.

:confused:
Yeah....you would think he'd just want this over. Obama not producing it just makes people want to see it more. Why not just show it like most of us must do at certain points or for certain reasons in our lives? Why would he think he is exempt? What could be on there that makes this so difficult or such an issue?

imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

There are tangible documents of BO's birth on Oahu, Hawaii.

Are there any documents which say otherwise?There are many documents on line but anyone can post something on line. Sorting them out is the trick. As said above, why not just release them?

:confused:

[Susan43]

Officials verify birth certificate of Obama

http://www.starbulletin.com/news/hawaiinews/20081101_officials_verify_birth_certificate_of_oba ma.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

“I may be the only person left who specifically remembers his birth. His parents are gone, his grandmother is gone, the obstetrician who delivered him is gone,” said Nelson, referring to Dr. Rodney T. West, who died in February at the age of 98. Here’s the story: Nelson was having dinner at the Outrigger Canoe Club on Waikiki Beach with Dr. West, the father of her college friend, Jo-Anne. Making conversation, Nelson turned to Dr. West and said: “‘So, tell me something interesting that happened this week,’” she recalls.

http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.htm

[Susan43]

There are many documents on line but anyone can post something on line. Sorting them out is the trick. As said above, why not just release them?

:confused:

Just what do you want released? His birth certificate was released over a year ago. It's just that some people don't believe it. But seriously, what documents? President Obama has had a passport for years. Have you ever gotten a passport? You have to show a certified birth certificate just like the one that we have all seen.

And think about this...if this is some kind of conspiracy how many people do you think would have to be involved? You really think the head of the Dept of Health and the Republican governor of HI are in on it? And how do you think the birth announcements got into the newspapers? Are they all in on the conspiracy too? And all the folks at Factcheck and Snopes? Are they in on it too?

It's just crazy thinking IMO.

[MiamiNice1]

Officials verify birth certificate of Obama

http://www.starbulletin.com/news/hawaiinews/20081101_officials_verify_birth_certificate_of_oba ma.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp



http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.htm

First Link) So we should take some official's word that they and/or a friend SAW the certificate? Can you imagine if anyone ELSE said this - say even about "her who shall not be named" ? Can you imagine the guffaws if someone tried defending someone in this manner? With no proof?

Second Link) Why hasn't the ORIGINAL been produced?

Third Link) "Error on Page" and article didn't show.

imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Just what do you want released? His birth certificate was released over a year ago. It's just that some people don't believe it. But seriously, what documents? President Obama has had a passport for years. Have you ever gotten a passport? You have to show a certified birth certificate just like the one that we have all seen.

And think about this...if this is some kind of conspiracy how many people do you think would have to be involved? You really think the head of the Dept of Health and the Republican governor of HI are in on it? And how do you think the birth announcements got into the newspapers? Are they all in on the conspiracy too? And all the folks at Factcheck and Snopes? Are they in on it too?

It's just crazy thinking IMO.

If they have been released then there is no problem. I was replying to a question if they hadn't been released.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

You would think that Obama would want to put this silliness to rest once and for all by waiving his certified long form birth certificate in front of all the naysayers. Can't figure out why he hasn't. Once and for all.

:confused:

From my side of the border,it doesnt matter what Obama does,,cause if he shows his birth Certificate..someone will claim it is fraudulant..then another will say something else..I hate to say this..do you not think there was any vetting done prior to Barrack Obama from even seeking this position?? and You think that during the 2 year of endless debating and vetting..that someone would NOT have found out he wasnt born "American"?

I am truly disgusted with the likes of Liz Cheny and former involved conspirators ( Nixon administration) can even bother to claim such nonsense!!..and yet have supposedly well educaed people swallow the garbage??..Sorry folks...:scared:

I feel sorry for you all..really do..freedom of speech is all well and good..but for media hypes..and agenda politico's to spew this crappolla is nothing short of scandalous..and some just want to get on their bandwagons and shout garbage to the sky's..Man..I think I really have seen it all and heard it all in your (USA) brand of politics...Geesh!

This is not directed to any one poster..just to the general attitudes I have read here..and articles being linked..Yikes..May God Bless you all..You need some blessings..really!!

LMS

[snookums1]

Why would two newspapers publish the birth announcement if it weren't true he was born there? Were his parents already scheming to get him the position of POTUS some day? That would be just amazing. :confused: Yep, all those many years ago, they knew the son they had just had would someday run for president and people would claim he had not been born in this country, therefore they published two birth announcements in Hawaii and paid the Bureau of Vital Statistics millions of dollars to keep a phoney record on file. ;) That way, when the day came and people asked, they could send a birth certificate that looks exactly like mine except mine has a different state name on it.

[snookums1]

I am afraid you are mistaken. I had to have my long form BC with the raised certification to get my passport. I needed it to go on a business trip and 3 people at my office couldn't get their passport because they presented the short form and were told they had to have the certified long form? Maybe it's changed in 8 years. But I HAD to have the long form. :confused: Gee that's funny. My copy that the Bureau of Vital Statistics sent to me when I requested a copy was all that was needed when I applied for my passport. Wonder why you needed something most people don't have.

[Susan43]

First Link) So we should take some official's word that they and/or a friend SAW the certificate? Can you imagine if anyone ELSE said this - say even about "her who shall not be named" ? Can you imagine the guffaws if someone tried defending someone in this manner? With no proof?

Second Link) Why hasn't the ORIGINAL been produced?

Third Link) "Error on Page" and article didn't show.

imo

From the first link...

Health Director Chiyome Fukino said she and the vital statistics registrar viewed and verified Obama's birth certificate.
"No state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii," Fukino said.

So you think the director of health is lying? And if so why hasn't the Republican governor, Linda Lingle spoken up?

And here is the correct link for the third site.

http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html

[theal3]

From the first link...



So you think the director of health is lying? And if so why hasn't the Republican governor, Linda Lingle spoken up?

And here is the correct link for the third site.

http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html

Honestly, I think they do it cause they know it wastes Dems time, Media time, and gets in the news and rallies their base, calls attention to themselves. They like to aggrevate to to aggrevate and watch the otherside try to defend. They are the ones with no credibility. Matthews show Liddy what MSNBC documented and paid for to get, plus lots of other sources, and Liddy says our "FACTS" are what his grandma said. And he insinuated his mother probably but the birth announcement in, so Barack could get American benefits. Geez Louise, she was American, therefore he is too, even if born on Krypton.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Honestly, I think they do it cause they know it wastes Dems time, Media time, and gets in the news and rallies their base, calls attention to themselves. They like to aggrevate to to aggrevate and watch the otherside try to defend. They are the ones with no credibility. Matthews show Liddy what MSNBC documented and paid for to get, plus lots of other sources, and Liddy says our "FACTS" are what his grandma said. And he insinuated his mother probably but the birth announcement in, so Barack could get American benefits. Geez Louise, she was American, therefore he is too, even if born on Krypton.

If he was born on Krypton would he be a natural born citizen of USA? Would he have dual citizenship and have to file a declaration?

[Susan43]

Gee that's funny. My copy that the Bureau of Vital Statistics sent to me when I requested a copy was all that was needed when I applied for my passport. Wonder why you needed something most people don't have.

Me too. As long as the BC is certified by the state it is legal to use to get your passport. Well...at least it was for me.

Are hospital-issued birth certificates acceptable?

No. You must obtain a certified birth certificate from the county/state of birth.

http://urgentpassport.com/faq.cfm

[Susan43]

From your link:



Sadly, I saw two people get turned away at the passport office because they didn't have the "long form"

And if you look at the photos of Obama's birth certificate you will see that it has all the information on it.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

[MiamiNice1]

From the first link...

So you think the director of health is lying? And if so why hasn't the Republican governor, Linda Lingle spoken up?

And here is the correct link for the third site.

http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html
Thanks for the corrected third link. Nothing has changed - All this so called proof sounds like nothing more than "The Telephone Game".....this one heard from that one who wrote this on a napkin, saw this and that and knew this person or that. It wouldn't hold water for anyone else - why is it ok for Obama?

How about Obama being a good citizen and show the certificate if he has nothing to fear - just like the rest of us must when required.

imo

[Susan43]

I hadn't seen this article before and it's really interesting.

Obama's birth certificate: Final chapter

UPDATE, July 2009: It's been a year since we published this article, and Obama's birth certificate is still the subject of much speculation. So on July 1, 2009, we published two Truth-O-Meter items exploring new aspects of the controversy. In one, we explored whether a White House spokesman lied when he claimed Obama's birth certificate is actually posted on the Web, and the other one examined whether a bill in Congress would protect Obama from having to release his birth certificate.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

[Casspian]

Oh, geez, I'm sorry but I just can't read the original article - I did get a HUGE laugh out of the thread title though. :wink:

Liddy ... go away! fly fly

[theal3]

:lol: At first glance, saw Liddy's name and was expecting somehow "space alien" to be the new rumor. How disappointing to learn, no new rumors, just a recycled old face mouthing tired lies. Can't wait to see who the birthers trot out next.

I'm sorry: the root of this is racism: it started in the primaries with the Muslim thing, birth thing, flag pin thing, Ayers thing, Wright thing, Farakon thing, Angry Black Women thing, missing years thing; Acorn thing, exoctic vacation thing ( going home to grandparents and birthplace; "boy" thing, "that one" thing, and Chicago Mafia Politics thing, Kenyan father thing, turban dress thing; watermelon, gorilla, monkey, etc etal things and ******* thing, Chosen One thing,..... and he still got elected. The American people voted in a fair and square election.

The GOP is recycling all of it again. It's like they think how could an AA get elected President, how could someone like THAT, rise through the system to achieve so much so fast in 47 years? Especially in the last 10 years -- they they assume there must be a conspiracy or plot, and God forbid it happens again. They are on fire to save AMERICA from minorities. That's just my opinion.

I keep hear this new theme all the time: now that he's elected there is a "war" against white men..... How silly. The GOP is imploding, IMHO.

[daniel green]

I just saw on MSNBC, hardball, that Lou Dobbs is saying on his radio show Obama is "undocumented". So apparently it's a talking point amongst the fringe now.

How sad.

So it's two of them making the same charge today. How can anyone take these folks seriously?

And Liz Cheney not saying that these fringe folks crazy claim is wrong? How desperate is that?

The whole thing is just beyond pathetic.

[daniel green]

The Director of Health and the Republican Governor of Hawaii has confirmed the original birth certificate. And Liddy still thinks he's an illegal alien. Liddy, IMHO looked like a doddering old fool. Liddy of the Watergate era, convicted crimminal, he must be in his 80s for crying out loud. He seemed confused to me.

Not to mention that even had the President been born outside the US, his mother was a US citizen, making him one. No matter where he was born.

[daniel green]

The Director of Health and the Republican Governor of Hawaii has confirmed the original birth certificate. And Liddy still thinks he's an illegal alien. Liddy, IMHO looked like a doddering old fool. Liddy of the Watergate era, convicted crimminal, he must be in his 80s for crying out loud. He seemed confused to me.

I figured he is so used to ranting about undocumented workers and calling them illegals (same with Dobbs) and then being a birther, he just got confused and put them together and declared the President is an illegal alien. How bizarre. :blushing:

[daniel green]

Isn't he the guy that said to shoot some law-enforcement people in the head or something? :confused:

The very one.

And as a convicted felon, he can't even vote.

[daniel green]

If they have been released then there is no problem. I was replying to a question if they hadn't been released.

Oh, forpetesakes, it was released over a year ago. :rolleyes:

[daniel green]

snipped Matthews show Liddy what MSNBC documented and paid for to get, plus lots of other sources, and Liddy says our "FACTS" are what his grandma said. And he insinuated his mother probably but the birth announcement in, so Barack could get American benefits. Geez Louise, she was American, therefore he is too, even if born on Krypton.

For real, Theal. Even if born in another galaxy, he would still be an American citizen. This "illegal alien" stuff is like crazy to the second power.

I believe that the media reports this stuff because it shows just how far these folks will go.

Matthews and then David Schuster were all saying it was, quote, crazy.

[daniel green]

Me too. As long as the BC is certified by the state it is legal to use to get your passport. Well...at least it was for me.

Are hospital-issued birth certificates acceptable?

No. You must obtain a certified birth certificate from the county/state of birth.

http://urgentpassport.com/faq.cfm

Why, of course so, Susan.

My youngest two had their birth-certificates isssued at age 1, each, because we adopted them at birth. Their birth certificates, certified by the states in which they were born, and with which they got their passports, are the short forms and it shows my husband and I as the parents.

[LisaM22]

I hadn't seen this article before and it's really interesting.

Obama's birth certificate: Final chapter

UPDATE, July 2009: It's been a year since we published this article, and Obama's birth certificate is still the subject of much speculation. So on July 1, 2009, we published two Truth-O-Meter items exploring new aspects of the controversy. In one, we explored whether a White House spokesman lied when he claimed Obama's birth certificate is actually posted on the Web, and the other one examined whether a bill in Congress would protect Obama from having to release his birth certificate.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

thanks, for posting this, hard to believe some republicans are so gullible, just following along like sheep repeating what they were told - jmho

[February]

G Gordon Liddy is a convicted felon. He's a crook.
Barack Obama is President of the United States.

Sigh...just another repub who can't sleep at night.

[snookums1]

Where there's smoke there's fire. MOAnd old saying: A gossip is the creator of the smoke in which stupid people will begin thinking there is a fire. Simply quoting an old, old saying from years past.

[snookums1]

You can keep telling that story, but it will never be true. Since few states even have a long form, the U.S. Passport office does not require it.

Have you looked for a link to back up your statements? I have, and they don't exist on the Federal site for Passports.

Remember, the truth shall set you free. :lol:

MOHaving had to request a copy of my birth certificate from the Bureau of Vital Statistics in my state, I know for a fact that you are correct. And the reason I needed a copy was to obtain a passport. It was sent to me without any problem at all.

[theal3]

This WHOLE born in the USA birth certificate thing, is nuts. AND as I recall it started with REAGAN...... in 1983 or 84, I had a toddler... and two preteens, and they the GOP has TAX REFORMN, and I got serious letters from the REAGAN/GOP govn...saying: next year when you file your tax return, YOU will have to have a SS# for all children in YOUR house, born BEFORE or AFTER.....if you do not do this, YOUR children will NOT be eligile for SS# benefits, you may earn or NOT be eligilble for college loan IN THE FUTURE, or ... get a Job when they enter the work place, etc etal... so my 4 year old and pre teens got SS#s, and also the paper work said: NOW you must add to your income any money in THEIR bank accounts, and ANY money they earn while working in HS or college....OR any intererst in ANY savings accounts you have for your children. In other words: while they are still under your roof, you must report their income with your income and any income in your children's name.....including any interest in your childrens' savings accounts.

AND each of your children with a SS# must file a separate, WWWWWW form, and then you put yours with theirs, and what? send in the money or not:

I jump through those hoops.... for Reagan... and he tanked the economy.... with Bush One.... Clinton turned it around the Dems turned it around.....then we got Bush 2....... Just as my youngest then in 20s....got hit with, bundled loans, as we did with his sisters int he 80s: the banks changed the rules in the 80s, then 2000s.....

IMHO GOPers are bottom feeders..... parasites.....they USE people to make money, cause they know most people will do what ever for their family and life the pursuit of happiness, they are carnivorous....and think the average person is a target.

That' what has been going on in steroids the Bush/Cheney for last 8 years.... and IMHO the GOP relies tries to garner the least educated among us.... cause they most in our country do not have college degrees. Hey like 10% of the population? College is HARD stuff and expensive. It should be free! or not expensive.... An American mind is a terrible thing to waste.


IMHO

[snookums1]

:shrug: We have Ollie North on the history channel. go figure. :blushing: What is it about criminals that some people love, honor and respect? It takes a twisted mind IMO, or is it simply a subconscience wish they too had the courage to break laws?

[vonna]

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/23/gordan-liddy-birther/

Who cares what that jerk thinks?????

[justaguy]

some people have true doubts..tho i don't understand their reasoning. those i assume that if the right documentation (for them) was presented, they would be satisfied.

but many...no matter what is produced..it will never be enough. if a birth certificate is shown..well...it will be a copy...or "i need to examine it myself, not just see it on air or online". the more the obama whitehouse produces..the more they feed into the story. why should they? let those that think he is an illegal alien..go with it. i imagine some dems relish all this. tho it is working up some factions of the republican base, it is making IMO them look petty and vindictive. and no proof will be enough.

btw..i thought gordon liddy looked..awful.. i don't know if he was feeling well...i don't know his age..but he seemed without any energy...somewhat confused by chris matthew's challenges.

[Barbara2]

some people have true doubts..tho i don't understand their reasoning. those i assume that if the right documentation (for them) was presented, they would be satisfied.

but many...no matter what is produced..it will never be enough. if a birth certificate is shown..well...it will be a copy...or "i need to examine it myself, not just see it on air or online". the more the obama whitehouse produces..the more they feed into the story. why should they? let those that think he is an illegal alien..go with it. i imagine some dems relish all this. tho it is working up some factions of the republican base, it is making IMO them look petty and vindictive. and no proof will be enough.

btw..i thought gordon liddy looked..awful.. i don't know if he was feeling well...i don't know his age..but he seemed without any energy...somewhat confused by chris matthew's challenges.

He's 78, will be 79 in November.

[jaxback]

He's 78, will be 79 in November.

78 or 79 does not automatically equal being confused, does it?

[A-hem_1]

I don't get this "short form" and "long form" for a birth certificate. For myself I have always had one Certificate of live birth. For my son also.

[ShooFly]

I have both a short form and long form BC. The short one is a small green card with basic info. The long gives name of parents, etc.
My opinion on this obsession by the right of Obama's citizenship is that they need to don their funnel caps. Maybe they could obsess about McCain and his Panama birth for awhile, lol.:w00t:

[ShooFly]

:shrug: We have Ollie North on the history channel. go figure. :blushing:

It shoudl be called the rewrite history channel.:confused:

[A-hem_1]

How could he have received a social security card or passport if he did not show them his birth certificate? He would have applied for these long before he decided to run for president.

[Lady_Jean_La]

The very one.

And as a convicted felon, he can't even vote.
Link please. TIA

[Lady_Jean_La]

Oh, forpetesakes, it was released over a year ago. :rolleyes:
Then there isn't a problem.

[Lady_Jean_La]

How odd. The only 4 people I've ever heard of having to have the long form of their BC. Might interest you to know that many states do not even have 2 versions.

I'm sure you're mistaken. In reading over the requirements for Passports you will see no mention of any such thing, and I've had a Passport since I was 5 years of age. Have yet to see it as a requiement at any time. :shrug: It's a true mystery, isn't it?? Especially since 'many' states do not have 2 versions of their State BC's. WOWZER!! You certainly have personal knowledge of many, many 'things' that no one else has had personal knowledge with. How lucky is that?? :wink:

MO

The laws and regulations for passports have changed drastically recently. imo

[A-hem_1]

The laws and regulations for passports have changed drastically recently. imo

But not for a social security card.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Who cares what that jerk thinks?????

Apparently quite a few posters. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

But not for a social security card.

:confused:What does that have to do with anything?

[LisaM22]

I haven't seen it, have you? This is the age of transparency.
IMO

it was posted on this very thread :shrug:

[A-hem_1]

:confused:What does that have to do with anything?


You have to show a certified copy of your birth certificate in order to obtain a SS card. That or a green card/visa if you are not a US citizen.

I would imagine Obama had his SS card long before he even dreamed of becoming president or any state office.

[Lady_Jean_La]

You have to show a certified copy of your birth certificate in order to obtain a SS card. That or a green card/visa if you are not a US citizen.

I would imagine Obama had his SS card long before he even dreamed of becoming president or any state office.Wonder when they started that.

[A-hem_1]

Wonder when they started that.

Well, Obama is around my age and I obtained my SS number when I was 13. I remember going with my mother to LA and having to stand in a long hot line in order to get my birth certificate. I obtained my sons SS number when he was 6 month old and had to show a certified copy of his birth certificate.

[FallenAngel♥]

Wonder when they started that.

well i know of at least 50 years they've been doing that because my mom had to get a certified copy of mine when i was 5 so i could get my SS card.

[FallenAngel♥]

I'm the same age as Obama and I didn't have to show a certified copy to get a SS card. :confused:

what did you have to show?
when i was two my mom had to show a certified copy to get my passport and i'm sure obama had a passport at a young age and had to show a certified copy of his then also.

[A-hem_1]

In order to obtain a SS card you must provide proof of citizenship. This is what the SS administration will accept:

U.S. birth certificate
U.S. consular report of birth
U.S. passport
Certificate of Naturalization
Certificate of Citizenship

in order to obtain a passport you need the above documents. (well, except the passport)

[FallenAngel♥]

In order to obtain a SS card you must provide proof of citizenship. This is what the SS administration will accept:

U.S. birth certificate
U.S. consular report of birth
U.S. passport
Certificate of Naturalization
Certificate of Citizenship

in order to obtain a passport you need the above documents. (well, except the passport)

exactly a-hem and i think those were the same rules 50 years ago when my mom got mine.

[Lady_Jean_La]

I'm the same age as Obama and I didn't have to show a certified copy to get a SS card. :confused:
Me either.
:confused:

[daniel green]

Barack Obama never filed a declaration. AFAIK

WHAT????????:confused::huh::tongueside:

[daniel green]

Where there's smoke there's fire. MO

Or a smoke machine.

[A-hem_1]

exactly a-hem and i think those were the same rules 50 years ago when my mom got mine.

I find it quite amusing in a sad kind of way that people are actually questioning his citizenship. Goodness, you have to show a birth certificate in order to be enrolled in kindergarten! Was this a deep dark conspiracy from the day he was born? Was he under some secret democrat control from the day he was born? Sounds like some people need to put down their science fiction novels and get back into reality!

[A-hem_1]

Me either.
:confused:

How did you prove your citizenship?

[daniel green]

And people actually give credence to his ramblings? Yikes.

Only some fringe people, but still. ACK!!!!! :scared:

[daniel green]

I find it quite amusing in a sad kind of way that people are actually questioning his citizenship. Goodness, you have to show a birth certificate in order to be enrolled in kindergarten! snipped

Priceless! :biggrin:

Any word yet on how Dobbs and this other guy, the felon, came up with "illegal," btw?

[Lady_Jean_La]

WHAT????????:confused::huh::tongueside:

Asked and answered, see above.

[daniel green]

How could he have received a social security card or passport if he did not show them his birth certificate? He would have applied for these long before he decided to run for president.

As a young child, actually, when he traveled to Indonesia.

But, go figure. It was all a huge plot. :rolleyes:

[Lady_Jean_La]

Yes he was, and most accept that Sen McCain is a US citizen born of parents who were US citizens.

What is confusing to some is that Pres Obama was born in Hawaii, his mother was a US citizen, as well, and yet the Birthers continue to make outrageous claims to the contrary.I think the main concern is not being a citizen, it is being a natural born citizen of the USA. imo

[daniel green]

Link please. TIA

You want a link to Liddy being a convicted felon or to the fact that felons can't vote? :confused:

[daniel green]

I think the main concern is not being a citizen, it is being a natural born citizen of the USA. imo

Really? Then why call him an "illegal alien?" :rolleyes:

[A-hem_1]

I think the main concern is not being a citizen, it is being a natural born citizen of the USA. imo

Last I heard Hawaii was part of the USA. He was born in Hawaii, why don't you believe that?

[daniel green]

The laws and regulations for passports have changed drastically recently. imo

How?

TIA

[A-hem_1]

I am curious as to why those who say they didn't have to show a birth certificate to obtain a SS number won't answer what they showed to prove citizenship?

[daniel green]

In order to obtain a SS card you must provide proof of citizenship. This is what the SS administration will accept:

U.S. birth certificate
U.S. consular report of birth
U.S. passport
Certificate of Naturalization
Certificate of Citizenship

in order to obtain a passport you need the above documents. (well, except the passport)

YUP YUP

As a naturalized citizen, I had to show my certificate of naturalization to get my passport.

Bless their hearts, how do Dobbs and Liddy think that the President got his Soc Sec card if he was "illegal?"

[Lady_Jean_La]

You want a link to Liddy being a convicted felon or to the fact that felons can't vote? :confused:

A link to Liddy not being able to vote please. TIA

[daniel green]

A link to Liddy not being able to vote please. TIA

Lady, I am kinda blown away by that question, really. The man is a convicted felon who went to prison. He cannot vote.

As Media Matters for America has noted, Liddy served four and a half years in prison in connection with his conviction for his role in the Watergate break-in and the break-in at the office of the psychiatrist of Daniel Ellsberg, the military analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers. Liddy has acknowledged preparing to kill someone during the Ellsberg break-in “if necessary”; plotting to murder journalist Jack Anderson; plotting with a “gangland figure” to murder Howard Hunt to stop him from cooperating with investigators; plotting to firebomb the Brookings Institution; and plotting to kidnap “leftist guerillas” at the 1972 Republican National Convention — a plan he outlined to the Nixon administration using terminology borrowed from the Nazis. (The murder, firebombing, and kidnapping plots were never carried out; the break-ins were.) During the 1990s, Liddy reportedly instructed his radio audience on multiple occasions on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents and also reportedly said he had named his shooting targets after Bill and Hillary Clinton

http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/10/05/mccains-terror-connection-g-gordon-liddy/

[daniel green]

Asked and answered, see above.

Sorry, I did not know we were in a court of law. My bad.

I cannot find either the asked nor answer to my question, though I have looked back. Where is it, pls?

Also, could you pls answer what drastic changes have been made to passport applications recently, as per your allegation?

TIA

[jaxback]

YUP YUP

As a naturalized citizen, I had to show my certificate of naturalization to get my passport.

Bless their hearts, how do Dobbs and Liddy think that the President got his Soc Sec card if he was "illegal?"

This was discussed a few days ago, so you must have forgotten: this plot to get Obama into the presidency was hatched before he was born. Whoever conspired in it managed to secure a realistic looking Soc Sec card, but obviously neglected to do such a bang-up job on the old birth certificate. Remember now? :rolleyes:

[Lady_Jean_La]

Really? Then why call him an "illegal alien?" :rolleyes:

Gets more attention. imo

[daniel green]

The exchange was, at times, excruciating to watch as a largely catatonic Liddy struggled to explain the slew of evidence that points to Obama's U.S. citizenship. At one point, Matthews showed Liddy a certificate of live birth, which he noted was sufficient enough documentation to get a passport issued by the State Department.

"Let me see it, if you would. It's interesting that it's redacted," Liddy said, pointing to a sequence of numbers in the upper right hand corner.

Matthews then produced a copy that wasn't redacted. "What do you think now?" he asked.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/23/gordon-liddy-struggles-em_n_243982.html

[MiamiNice1]

YUP YUP

As a naturalized citizen, I had to show my certificate of naturalization to get my passport.

Bless their hearts, how do Dobbs and Liddy think that the President got his Soc Sec card if he was "illegal?"
In answer to your question, back in the 50s, things were different. My mother came from Brazil in 1957 and instantly got residence, an SS Card and within a couple years received citizenship.

It is nothing like it is now, so I don't think you can use this as an argument.

imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Last I heard Hawaii was part of the USA. He was born in Hawaii, why don't you believe that?

It really doesn't matter what I believe. But even if he wasn't born in Hawaii he could be a natural born USA citizen. imo

[A-hem_1]

In answer to your question, back in the 50s, things were different. My mother came from Brazil in 1957 and instantly got residence, an SS Card and within a couple years received citizenship.

It is nothing like it is now, so I don't think you can use this as an argument.

imo

I am in the same age group as Obama and the rules were that you had to produce a certified copy of your birth certificate. (or as mine says "certificate of live birth". )

[daniel green]

While they ruled out any chance of the ‘birther’ lawsuits holding up in court, lawyers for the McCain campaign did check into the rumors about Obama’s birth and the assertions made by Berg and others. “To the extent that we could, we looked into the substantive side of these allegations,” said Potter. “We never saw any evidence that then-Senator Obama had been born outside of the United States. We saw rumors, but nothing that could be sourced to evidence. There were no statements and no documents that suggested he was born somewhere else. On the other side, there was proof that he was born in Hawaii. There was a certificate issued by the state’s Department of Health, and the responsible official in the state saying that he had personally seen the original certificate. There was a birth announcement in the Honolulu Advertiser, which would be very difficult to invent or plant 47 years in advance.”

http://washingtonindependent.com/52474/mccain-campaign-investigated-dismissed-obama-citizenship-rumors

[Lady_Jean_La]

Lady, I am kinda blown away by that question, really. The man is a convicted felon who went to prison. He cannot vote.



http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/10/05/mccains-terror-connection-g-gordon-liddy/


The legal ability of people with felony convictions to vote varies from state to state. Some states allow felons to vote from prison while other states permanently ban felons from voting even if they have been released from prison, parole, and probation, and paid all their fines.

http://felonvoting.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=286

One of the biggest annoyances to the Left in recent years has been the Constitutional right of states to prohibit felons from voting.

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/05/29/felon-voting-another-troubling-sotomayor-decision/

If you were convicted in another state or in federal court, your right to vote is restored as long as you are not incarcerated for that felony.


http://wei.secstate.wa.gov/osos/en/voterinformation/Pages/felons.aspx

State and federal laws vary and there are exceptions to the law. Records can be expunged, pardons given, etc. Some felons lose voting rights, others don't. Some states restore the rights.

You seem to think Liddy can not vote, I guess that is just your opinion. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Sorry, I did not know we were in a court of law. My bad.

I cannot find either the asked nor answer to my question, though I have looked back. Where is it, pls?

Also, could you pls answer what drastic changes have been made to passport applications recently, as per your allegation?

TIA

I'm not an expert on passports but over the past few years there have been many changes. Appearance, proof, when to show, etc.

[daniel green]

In answer to your question, back in the 50s, things were different. My mother came from Brazil in 1957 and instantly got residence, an SS Card and within a couple years received citizenship.

It is nothing like it is now, so I don't think you can use this as an argument.

imo

Depends where one was from.

My family came to the US as political immigrants in 1961 and we were not granted residency till 5 yrs later (and we had to make one trip out of the country to gain residency). My father had a work permit, but no residency or Soc Sec number. It was not until 1970 that we were able to become citizens.

Surely though, on topic, you do not believe that the President in an "illegal alien?" :ohmy:

[daniel green]

I'm not an expert on passports but over the past few years there have been many changes. Appearance, proof, when to show, etc.

OK, so your allegation about there being "drastic changes" to the methods for getting a passport was just an opinion, based on no facts.

Thx.

[daniel green]

This was discussed a few days ago, so you must have forgotten: this plot to get Obama into the presidency was hatched before he was born. Whoever conspired in it managed to secure a realistic looking Soc Sec card, but obviously neglected to do such a bang-up job on the old birth certificate. Remember now? :rolleyes:

Yikes, where is my head? :blushing:

That had totally slipped my mind. I'd forgotten all about that plot. My bad.

The conspirators managed to get him into American schools and get him an American passport and get him elected to the Ill house and senate and as president, but darn it all, they couldn't get it together on the old birth certificate. If it had not been for that un-named man who studied that birth cert for Townhall blog and called it a fake, the plot would not have been uncovered!!!!!!!!! :ohmy:

[daniel green]

[url]snipped
You seem to think Liddy can not vote, I guess that is just your opinion. imo

Nope. I KNOW he cannot vote.

Whereas, G. Gordon Liddy cannot, as a result of his penal disability: vote, own firearms, work as an attorney, serve or hold public office, travel freely, serve as a Scout Master, or even join the Masons;

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/708175245

[MiamiNice1]

I am in the same age group as Obama and the rules were that you had to produce a certified copy of your birth certificate. (or as mine says "certificate of live birth". )
I was refering to his mother and/or grandparents back in the late 50s, early 60s when he was born and they applied.

imo

[MiamiNice1]

I'm not an expert on passports but over the past few years there have been many changes. Appearance, proof, when to show, etc.
This is TRUE.

imo

[daniel green]

I hadn't seen this article before and it's really interesting.

Obama's birth certificate: Final chapter

UPDATE, July 2009: It's been a year since we published this article, and Obama's birth certificate is still the subject of much speculation. So on July 1, 2009, we published two Truth-O-Meter items exploring new aspects of the controversy. In one, we explored whether a White House spokesman lied when he claimed Obama's birth certificate is actually posted on the Web, and the other one examined whether a bill in Congress would protect Obama from having to release his birth certificate.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

VERY interesting!!!!!
As a fact-checking news Web site, we went to extensive lengths to sort out the truth. We got a copy of his 1992 marriage certificate from the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics. His driver's license record from the Illinois Secretary of State's office. His registration and disciplinary record with the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois. Not to mention all of his property records.

The article links to all the actual documents.

[daniel green]

This is TRUE.

imo

Really?

What drastic changes have been made to applying for a passport?

And how does it tie into the thread topic?

[daniel green]

http://learn.ancestry.com/FindAnswers/findanswers.aspx?id=12962

[daniel green]

Couldn't Barack Obama declare to be a Kenyan?

Finally found your answer.

No, he could not declare to be a Kenyan.

He is an American citizen and the President of the US. Why on earth would he declare to be a Kenyan, anyway????? :confused:

[Lady_Jean_La]

OK, so your allegation about there being "drastic changes" to the methods for getting a passport was just an opinion, based on no facts.

Thx.
My opinion and personal knowledge. You are welcome.


Passport Rules Change History and Passport Legislation

http://studenttravel.about.com/od/uspassports/a/passports_5.htm

Passport changes

http://www.stmservices.com/PassportChanges.html

New Passport and Border Entry Rules

http://public.findlaw.com/new-passport-law/

Passport rules change — again

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19296137/

[Lady_Jean_La]

Nope. I KNOW he cannot vote.


http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/708175245

Thank you that is quite a list. I seem to remember others doing all those things, almost. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Finally found your answer.

No, he could not declare to be a Kenyan.

He is an American citizen and the President of the US. Why on earth would he declare to be a Kenyan, anyway????? :confused:

His father was Kenyan (British).