7/7, 7/8 Memorial thread, #2 & Wed. Daily thread

[4Life]

That's your opinion and you don't know him so how do you know he wasn't these things? I think when someone has close contact with children we should all be aware of their actions. IMO

And I can say the same to you. How do you know he was these things?

[MoonHarvest]

That's your opinion and you don't know him so how do you know he wasn't these things? I think when someone has close contact with children we should all be aware of their actions. IMO

I did hear his lawyer say last night that CPS had seen MJ and his children.

[*Serenity*]

That statement would be liable and slander unless you can prove what you say with facts. Please post a link to this information for us. If not please retract your statement.

This is so off topic!! But here ya go Logger




Here is what the record to date shows: Mr. Limbaugh’s housekeeper, Wilma Cline, approached Florida media and Florida authorities to reveal that she had acted as Rush Limbaugh’s drug buyer for years, purchasing "more than 30,000 hydrocodone, Lorcet and OcyContin pills," and she reports he "took as many as 30 OxyContin pills a day."**** Florida authorities then began investigating, and Ms. Cline’s allegations have apparently proved solid, certainly solid enough for the State of Florida to take action.

http://www.bradleyreport.net/commentary/StonedRush.htm

[Hanalei]

I hope they aren't dragging him into court:scared:


And FYI there is a case coming up about the children

Is there a Michael Jackson court case going on right now? He is being dragged into court again? :confused:

[4Life]

I did hear his lawyer say last night that CPS had seen MJ and his children.

And what was the out come? Nothing wrong right? Cps never took his children away from him, so makes perfect sense that nothing wrong was found

[MoonHarvest]

And what was the out come? Nothing wrong right? Cps never took his children away from him, so makes perfect sense that nothing wrong was found


Correct indeed.

[Hanalei]

Never said he was but you said he wasn't. You can't say he didn't do anything wrong you didn't live with him. Only MJ knows what he did or didn't do we will never know the truth. The subject is like beating a dead horse.

And I can say the same to you. How do you know he was these things?

[4Life]

I hope they aren't dragging him into court:scared:


And FYI there is a case coming up about the children

And for YOUR info, that case has nothing to do with MJ
The case is to decide who gets custody of the children since MJ died

[4Life]

Never said he was but you said he wasn't. You can't see he didn't do anything wrong you didn't live with him. Only MJ knows what he did or didn't do we will never know the truth.

Lets see you just registered and your 1st post out of ALL these pages was in response to mine. Hmmm

[*Serenity*]

Sorry your nerve has been touched..and I will respectfully back off..I Have never accused MJ as a Bad parent..Nor have I ever said one word or blamed Michael as a man..I guess..you have only read a few words of my postings..and jumped to conclusions..OKay..I was only responding to responses to MY posts and MY rationale..Sorry to ruffle your feathers...

BTW.. for the record..I HAVE NEVER Badmouthed Michael..BTW..I said from the day of his death..I HAVE MOVED ON...and only interested in finding out what happened..maybe you didnt get that?!

LMS

I owe you a big apology...
I posted to the wrong Linda.............and went back and deleted my post. The other Linda on here is the poster ranting page after page about what a p-poor Father Michael was.

I hope you can forgive me for clicking on the incorrect Linda.

:wub:

[Callie]

It's not like she had anyone to compare him to or knows any different. She loved him...fine. That doesn't make him a "good parent" IMO

Most children would say the same about their parent...and we know that's not the reality.

Who compares their parents to others?
A child does know when they are loved, treated well and feel secure.
God forbid they've ever seen the other side of that.
Yes, it does make him a good parent.

[CinderL.]

Is there a Michael Jackson court case going on right now? He is being dragged into court again? :confused:

I have only been talking about medications he may have been taking, and his Dr's. I said that I believe there will be court cases.

[VC2]

Excuse me...I don't give a rats butt what the boys mother did or did do.

The defense strategy was brilliant ...gotta give them credit where credit is due.

BUT SHE WASN'T ON TRIAL......It was Michael Jackson and I believed her son was VERY CREDIBLE.

IMO

The son who admitted to lying under oath in another sexual assault case you found very credible????????????

imo

[4Life]

Never said he was but you said he wasn't. You can't say he didn't do anything wrong you didn't live with him. Only MJ knows what he did or didn't do we will never know the truth. The subject is like beating a dead horse.

Was he ever proven and found guilty to be one of those things I listed?
NO
So YES I can say he was never any of those things

[who_is_it]

I am not a "hater", didn't watch the trial, didn't care. I do care HOW he died. Things need to change. Between ANS and her enablers, and MJ and his enablers, maybe Dr.s will take a good look at themselves, and stop this practice of prescribing anything people ask for. For the "fans", just because MJ's is now dead, that doesn't erase his life. IMO of course.

I care how he died but am also emotional about his death. I wasn't a fan... but after the trial I started to appreciate his music and talent more than before. His talent and music didn't become my main concern; I wished him justice -- justice in a way that the media spread truth and facts the same way they've beaten him up.

During and after the trial I've spent much time on reading about Michael Jackson. This made me somehow empathize with what has happened to him... but still beyond my imagination how much he got hurt.

Therefore I wouldn't call myself a "typical fan" (of his music) but for me he was an important topic and I empathized to some degree.

In consequence what you wrote applies to me, too: His life isn't erased in a way that I wouldn't care anymore.

[4Life]

I owe you a big apology...
I posted to the wrong Linda.............and went back and deleted my post. The other Linda on here is the poster ranting page after page about what a p-poor Father Michael was.

I hope you can forgive me for clicking on the incorrect Linda.

:wub:I did the same thing to the linda with a y the other day
After it was too late is when I noticed it was the wrong Linda

[Hanalei]

After the trial in 2005 MJ took off to other countries.I'm not saying he's a molester BUT if he was it's easier to get away with it overseas. IMO


Making really bad choices does not equal being a child molester.

He apparently DID stop associating with children not his own after 2005unless you have information that others don't or that is not public?

Michael Jackson was "accused" with child molestation twice. The first time his liability insurance carrier determined that it was less expensive to offer a cash settlement to the accusor's parents than defend any potential criminal case at trial. A pay off is not an admission of guilt. As a matter of fact, most global settlement releases contain specific language exercising the settlement of an admission of anything.

It's been widely reported that MJ was set up by the parents (particularly the father) of the first boy that accused MJ of molestation, to the point where the father (a dentist) used sodium pentathol on his own child to "get him to remember" what happened.

As to the second case, DA Sneddon went to court with really bad evidence. It is now known that the mother of the boy had talked to others about how to "set up" Jackson. It says something that after MJ was acquitted, the second boy and/or his family never filed a civil suit, as would have been their right and was, quite frankly, what they were expected to do.

Did Michael Jackson make bad choices? He absolutely did. He acted with total ingnorance. He was not the first, and will not be the last, high profile person to make such mistakes.

If Michael were in fact a pedophile and child molester, why are there no reports of any subsequent "victims". I'm not an expert, but I thought a lot of the problem with sexual predators of any kind is that they can't "stop" and rehabilitation is rare.


But since you claim that he "did not stop", I'm going to wait for your link and/or story and/or source related to any charges or accusations of child molestation made against Michael Jackson after 2005. Remember, we have the entire world to work from, including the United States, Great Britain, Sweden, Bahrain and every place else he traveled from 2005 to 2008.

[Hanalei]

Done! Now ask everyone else to drop it.

You first, lay down your whip.

[*Serenity*]

LOL..I am Lynda with a Y.. not "i", However..I am glad you apologized..yikes..I could not fathom your rath..I never said nothing about Michael..in fact I am more angry with Dr,. Murray...

Anyway..I accept your apology... BTW..can you can hand it out!!

LMS:ohmy:


Thank you so much for forgiving me. I was a tad riled after reading so many pages of the Michael is a p-poor father and yadda yadda yadda... unfortunately I saw the nic Linda and you were the unfortuante one to receive my frustration after catching up on the
thread.

I appreciate your information about the drugs located in Michaels room, and I appreciate you listening when I post my concerns about those oxygen tanks.

I'm taking a little breaky now... LOL


:)

[Hanalei]

IMO as long as Joe isn't around I don't care if MJ's mother gets the kids.

lol Debbie? If she wants to fight this losing battle, she needs to pay here own att. fees. Her losing battle, she doesn't ask for the Jackson's to pay att. fee. She has to know where Michael children want to be.

[MoonHarvest]

lol Debbie? If she wants to fight this losing battle, she needs to pay here own att. fees. Her losing battle, she doesn't ask for the Jackson's to pay att. fee. She has to know where Michael children want to be.

I'm not going to count Debbie out yet.

Did she want those children in the past? We don't know. Did MJ want her in their lives if she might have wanted to be? We don't know.
Did she at one time think she didn't need or want children like so many other women decide? We don't know. If she did make that decision, was a Judge able to realize in her defense, that she just might have a change of heart someday?


I did see a picture that was supposedly taken of DR outside of the Staples Center yesterday. Was she trying to be near or see those children? We don't know.

[VC2]

well finally i heard a doctor say something smart.

This "collapsed vein news" was answered by an ER doc on HLN saying, sure it could be due to drugs but uhh if he had a cardiac arrest - i.e his heart was not pumping blood - that causes veins to collapse too bc you need the veins open with blood. Also mentioned dehydration can collapse veins

Then Vinnie asked about track marks found and she said of course you often see that in street drug users, etc however again, if you are being treated by something intravenously - example chemo - that will collapse a vein as well. Said if he was being put to sleep with diprivan it cant be used on babies bc it has some alcohol which irritates and can cause vein trouble (plus pain)

IMO

It was a pure pleasure to hear a guest be reasonable

[4Life]

I jumped on someone -- don't remember who when I did not realize there was an "Athene" posting and thought someone was misquoting me and spelled my name incorrectly and I too had to apologize. LOL Nice to see people own up to their mistakes though; it does go to their credibility. :)

Is that the day we had too much wine? lol

[Callie]

After the trial in 2005 MJ took off to other countries.I'm not saying he's a molester BUT if he was it's easier to get away with it overseas. IMO

He left to get away from all the crap and get a breath of fresh air. Not to mention the hurt and pain caused by such vile accusations.

[4Life]

Can we all agree to put the trial to rest? I highly doubt anyone is going to change their minds about the conclusion they came to and all it does is serve to derail the thread.

I have yet to figure out what the trial has to do with his death and why some here want to keep bringing it up
I'm just guessing people like drama

[4Life]

He left to get away from all the crap and get a breath of fresh air. Not to mention the hurt and pain caused by such vile accusations.

He also left to get away from all the tablolids that kept hounding him and would have continued to hound him

[Hanalei]

People can be these things without being found guilty people everyday get away with murder,rape,robbery etc.

He was never proven to be a molester but he could have been one they just couldn't prove it . Just saying IMO

Child molestation cases are hard to prove in court unless you have witnesses that saw it happen or DNA. Let's not talk about this anymore on this thread it just isn't the place and it could become a nasty heated discussion.


Was he ever proven and found guilty to be one of those things I listed?
NO
So YES I can say he was never any of those things

[VC2]

I believe it was because his nail beds on some fingers remained very dark.

yes which makes sense when you take vitiligo into account. It is one area you cannot do depigmentation

[Hanalei]

Don't you have a job?:tonguewag: You are on here a lot!

Is that the day we had too much wine? lol

[who_is_it]

I have yet to figure out what the trial has to do with his death and why some here want to keep bringing it up
I'm just guessing people like drama

You know my position on the trial.... Imo the pain this man had to go through is beyond imagination. Maybe his alleged addiction problem increased in this situation filled with fear and pain. He was a superstar playing on stage for 100,000 people... but became totally seclusive. I think the trial had a big impact on his life and is -- imo to some degree - relevant for his alleged drug problem and soon death.

[4Life]

. Let's not talk about this anymore on this thread it just isn't the place and it could become a nasty heated discussion.

Well if you read the whole thread, I was not the one that kept bringing this up. I only responded to the person that was.
I have been saying since day one that these threads are not to bring up the old cases
If you read the 1st post on this thread, which I started, it says memorial thread only

[MoonHarvest]

I have yet to figure out what the trial has to do with his death and why some here want to keep bringing it up
I'm just guessing people like drama

I cannot speak for anyone. However, I have thought of how hard this possibly could be, for someone who may have been abused, and also of not only being abused, but not to have been heard and or believed.

[MoonHarvest]

And how hard it would for a person to have been falsely accused as well.

Absolutely, without a doubt. Which could very well have in turn brought Mr Jackson to a place where he is.:sad:

[4Life]

Don't you have a job?:tonguewag: You are on here a lot!

Lets see, I do and most days I have the luxurary of being able to work from home.

[MoonHarvest]

I think they know where their heart is. Her change of heart about HIS kids after he dies(or whenever$) is nonsense.:thumbup:

How do you know? Please share your enlightenment.

[4Life]

I cannot speak for anyone. However, I have thought of how hard this possibly could be, for someone who may have been abused, and also of not only being abused, but not to have been heard and or believed. I wasn't refering to you, friend

[Hanalei]

I never understood why he choose to go all the way white it's rare that a patient does this unless repigmentation techniques fail and that's if they are more than 50 percent loss of pigment of the exposed areas including the hands, arms, and face which I never saw MJ having this problem. Did anyone else notice anything on his face or arms? I know he said it started on his hand but I never noticed it anywhere else. And he started to lighten his face before he even wore his famous glove IMO

http://nvfi.org/pages/info_depigmentation.php


yes which makes sense when you take vitiligo into account. It is one area you cannot do depigmentation

[MoonHarvest]

DR was not there.

First of all, it would have been impossible for anyone without press credentials or a wristband/ticket combo to be outside of Staples. The barriers were two city blocks away.

:shrug:If I find the time I will try to look for the picture later. Perhaps she was at a satellite site.

[MoonHarvest]

Moon -- did you see the link to the transcript of her court appearance in 2001? It is back a few pages but a good read.

No. However I still stand at this time...we do not know what truly resides in her heart, at this place in time. Hopefully, a very very good judge will be able to determine that, for the sake of all involved.

[4Life]

I did see a picture that was supposedly taken of DR outside of the Staples Center yesterday. Was she trying to be near or see those children? We don't know.

DR was not there
She told the press and family she was not going
TMZ has pictures on their site of her watching the service from home and showed a pic of her in tears while Paris was speaking about her dad

[MoonHarvest]

This is true. Don't envy the judge for sure. :ohmy:

Neither do I.

[4Life]

All I can say to your suggestions is "Give it Up"..MJ has moved on to a much higher court than earthly courts can ever give him..and that court WILL KNOW THE TRUTH....I moved on since June 25/09..Maybe time for others to do the same...Believe it or not believe it..doesnt matter any more..and dwelling on it only degrades the "Good Things" he brought to the table in his lifetime!!
LMS

You should post this on every new page of this thread
Perfectly said

[MoonHarvest]

DR was not there
She told the press and family she was not going
TMZ has pictures on their site of her watching the service from home and showed a pic of her in tears while Paris was speaking about her dad

Haven't seen, heard, or looked into report, at least we know she was crying.

[4Life]

I seen the pic where she's covering her face. Don't recall where she was at or where I seen the pic.That is the one I am talking about
On TMZ, she was home

TMZ made a comment about her watching TV outside her home

[4Life]

She was there: (statement underneath the video)

"For some reason, she was watching the service outside."


http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/08/debbie-rowe-breaks-down-watching-paris/

Read the 1st sentence

"Debbie Rowe didn't go to Michael Jackson's memorial yesterday "

Plus look at that pic
Isn't that the same sign in other pics of her from her home and stables

[Hanalei]

The subject will never go away so I guess asking people to not discuss it isn't fair of me. I'm on the fence on the subject. I would love to see what the police collected in the 1993 and in the 2005 trial to make up my mind.


Well if you read the whole thread, I was not the one that kept bringing this up. I only responded to the person that was.
I have been saying since day one that these threads are not to bring up the old cases
If you read the 1st post on this thread, which I started, it says memorial thread only

[september]

People can be these things without being found guilty people everyday get away with murder,rape,robbery etc.

He was never proven to be a molester but he could have been one they just couldn't prove it . Just saying IMO

Child molestation cases are hard to prove in court unless you have witnesses that saw it happen or DNA. Let's not talk about this anymore on this thread it just isn't the place and it could become a nasty heated discussion.

I agree with you. I feel sorry for the victims that will never get justice. However, lets drop it. Once a person is dead it is not pc to say a negative thing. Michael Jackson is my hero. He always got what he wanted.

[who_is_it]

<snipped>
Child molestation cases are hard to prove in court unless you have witnesses that saw it happen or DNA. Let's not talk about this anymore on this thread it just isn't the place and it could become a nasty heated discussion.

Not to discuss but just to think about:

How hard or even impossible is it then to PROVE someone INNOCENT after false allegations of child molestation???

[MoonHarvest]

Read the 1st sentence

"Debbie Rowe didn't go to Michael Jackson's memorial yesterday "

This is what I remember reading.

"For some reason, she was watching the service outside."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/08/debbie-rowe-breaks-down-watching-paris/

Thanks to the poster who posted that .:smile:

[kennedy06]

All I can say to your suggestions is "Give it Up"..MJ has moved on to a much higher court than earthly courts can ever give him..and that court WILL KNOW THE TRUTH....I moved on since June 25/09..Maybe time for others to do the same...Believe it or not believe it..doesnt matter any more..and dwelling on it only degrades the "Good Things" he brought to the table in his lifetime!!
LMS

I have had this discussion with others, but I say it is a fine line one draws speaking only good and basically wiping the slate clean of anything one wishes to question about one that has passed. If it is done for one who many loved, should it be done for all others throughout history that meant something to other masses in the world?

[GentleBreeze]

Maybe his children were there too.

Kicking back, eating popcorn, candy or whatever, telling stories, watching TV and just having fun.... comfortably.

He saw himself as like Peter Pan. Are we to believe Peter Pan of our childhood days was a pervert? I think it was all totally innocent.

Guess it was a good way for some folks to get lots of bucks at the expense of their children.barf

I think it was all innocent. MJ tried so hard to explain that it had nothing to do with sex. It was just sharing a big old bed. No one wanted to listen to what he actually had to say. For some of them through their eyes, not HIS, it HAD TO BE SEXUAL...it just had to be. Why did some immediately see it in only in a sexual way? That has always puzzled me.

I believe MJ would never harm a child. I still think MJ was Asexual and stayed a man/child because that is a part of him there never happened when he was a child. The kid at heart loved to have the kid sleepovers and pretend he was one of the kids who had pillow fights, ate cookies, watched movies and just hung out like any kid would do.

I know this when I was little my mom and I lived with my grandparents for awhile and I had very bad reoccurring nightmares. I would go get in the bed with my grandfather where I felt safe, protected and loved. My cousins both boys and girls would lay on the bed together for hours reading books to each other or playing a board game in the middle of the bed. Have we become so jaded that automatically we assume everything has to have a sexual intent???

While these children weren't his children imo MJ loved all children deeply and felt a kinship with each one of them. That is why it does not matter the race of Prince, Paris or Blanket...he would have loved them if they had been purple polka dotted. He truly loved all children imo.

imo

[CinderL.]

I seen the pic where she's covering her face. Don't recall where she was at or where I seen the pic.

I saw that picture. I think the one I saw, they said was taken at her house. Why she was watching the program outside is anyone's guess.

[Hanalei]

WOW thanks for sharing I never saw those before! Now I believe he had it bad all over and didn't want to go white. Why didn't he show this pics to the world so they would stop hating on him for not being black anymore?

He was MORE than 50% lighter. Even his lips were affected which is why he wore that lipstick though I thought he could have chosen a color other than red.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15TSEKXXIvI

[4Life]

Read the 1st sentence

"Debbie Rowe didn't go to Michael Jackson's memorial yesterday "

Plus look at that pic
Isn't that the same sign in other pics of her from her home and stables

Los Angeles, CA (CNS) - Michael Jackson's ex-wife is not coming to his memorial service. Debbie Rowe, who bore two of the King of Pop's three children, said she changed her mind about attending Tuesday's service.

Her attorney, Marta Almli, told ABC's "Good Morning America" that Rowe will continue to celebrate her ex-husband's memory privately.

"The onslaught of media attention has made it clear her attendance would be an unnecessary distraction to an event that should focus exclusively on Michael's legacy."



http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7015712443?Debbie%20Rowe%20Not%20Attending%20Ex-Husband%20Michael%20Jackson's%20Memorial%20Service

[MoonHarvest]

WOW thanks for sharing I never saw those before! Now I believe he had it bad all over and didn't want to go white. Why didn't he show this pics to the world so they would stop hating on him for not being black anymore?

If the world might have stopped hating MJ might just be here right now.:sad:

[MoonHarvest]

Los Angeles, CA (CNS) - Michael Jackson's ex-wife is not coming to his memorial service. Debbie Rowe, who bore two of the King of Pop's three children, said she changed her mind about attending Tuesday's service.

Her attorney, Marta Almli, told ABC's "Good Morning America" that Rowe will continue to celebrate her ex-husband's memory privately.

"The onslaught of media attention has made it clear her attendance would be an unnecessary distraction to an event that should focus exclusively on Michael's legacy."



http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7015712443?Debbie%20Rowe%20Not%20Attending%20Ex-Husband%20Michael%20Jackson's%20Memorial%20Service

Don't care if she was there or not, she was crying. I think you cry if I am not mistaken when you feel something.

[4Life]

Hi 4life - it was confusing to me -- it just said she didn't go but then it said she watched it from outside and just connected the two to mean she watched it outside Staples Center so my bad.

Here's an article that does say she was watching from home:

Debbie was pictured looking distraught while watching the memorial service at her Southern California ranch.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1198375/Debbie-Rowe-breaks-tears-watching-Pariss-emotional-tribute-Michael-Jackson.html

It confused me too at 1st, but I looked at the pic again and remembered that sign behind her as being in other shots of her from her farm

[Hanalei]

How could he be asexual but have those girly mags in his room. The police collected many for the 2005 trial including nude book of pics of men and alcohol from his room I thought he didn't drink?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/michaeljackson/010605jacksonhouse.html




I think it was all innocent. MJ tried so hard to explain that it had nothing to do with sex. It was just sharing a big old bed. No one wanted to listen to what he actually had to say. For some of them through their eyes, not HIS, it HAD TO BE SEXUAL...it just had to be. Why did some immediately see it in only in a sexual way? That has always puzzled me.

I believe MJ would never harm a child. I still think MJ was Asexual and stayed a man/child because that is a part of him there never happened when he was a child. The kid at heart loved to have the kid sleepovers and pretend he was one of the kids who had pillow fights, ate cookies, watched movies and just hung out like any kid would do.

I know this when I was little my mom and I lived with my grandparents for awhile and I had very bad reoccurring nightmares. I would go get in the bed with my grandfather where I felt safe, protected and loved. My cousins both boys and girls would lay on the bed together for hours reading books to each other or playing a board game in the middle of the bed. Have we become so jaded that automatically we assume everything has to have a sexual intent???

While these children weren't his children imo MJ loved all children deeply and felt a kinship with each one of them. That is why it does not matter the race of Prince, Paris or Blanket...he would have loved them if they had been purple polka dotted. He truly loved all children imo.

imo

[4Life]

Don't care if she was there or not, she was crying. I think you cry if I am not mistaken when you feel something.

Hey I didn't say anything about DR
All I said was she wasn't there
I understood why she didn't want to be there

[CinderL.]

Check'n the news


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MICHAEL_JACKSON_MEMORIAL_COST?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

It is waste like this that makes me mad. Grrr

"In a letter to the emergency management department, Greuel criticized the nearly $49,000 expense for police officers' lunches, which were ordered from a restaurant located 80 miles from Los Angeles.

Greuel said her office called a local sandwich shop that could have provided box lunches for less than $17,500. The purchase would have had the added benefit of supporting a local business, she said."

[who_is_it]

I think it was all innocent. MJ tried so hard to explain that it had nothing to do with sex. It was just sharing a big old bed. No one wanted to listen to what he actually had to say. For some of them through their eyes, not HIS, it HAD TO BE SEXUAL...it just had to be. Why did some immediately see it in only in a sexual way? That has always puzzled me.

<snipped>

imo

Some think in certain stereotypes categories... and there's nothing but these categories -- no nuances.

Was MJ a stereotype? -- No.

[MoonHarvest]

Hey I didn't say anything about DR
All I said was she wasn't there
I understood why she didn't want to be there

O I know 4Life...words alone on a screen are hard to decipher sometimes. (all is well)

[GentleBreeze]

Not to discuss but just to think about:

How hard or even impossible is it then to PROVE someone INNOCENT after false allegations of child molestation???

It is impossible. How does one ever get over a false allegation like this one? Imo they don't. It is a sadder state of affairs that he would even have to prove himself innocent and still call himself a citizen of the US.

The mere allegation alone is enough to ruin someone's life. Maybe Sneddon knew that all along because he had to know more than anyone his case was totally weak.

imo

[who_is_it]

<snipped>
IF there are victims...they need to get appropriate councilling..
<snipped>
LMS

Maybe by Dr. Stanley Katz? He must be a real expert.

[MoonHarvest]

I care about what Michael's kids need now. Not Deb's sudden "change of heart$

I care about their needs too, believe it or not.

[Hanalei]

I wouldn't say he got whatever he wanted he never had a chance to just go somewhere and be himself without people following him. I get to do that eveyday and I wouldn't trade that for all his money. I would never want to be famous....rich hell ya but not famous.

I agree with you. I feel sorry for the victims that will never get justice. However, lets drop it. Once a person is dead it is not pc to say a negative thing. Michael Jackson is my hero. He always got what he wanted.

[MoonHarvest]

It is impossible. How does one ever get over a false allegation like this one? Imo they don't. It is a sadder state of affairs that he would even have to prove himself innocent and still call himself a citizen of the US.



imo

Quoting..

:sad::sad:For a person who innocently loved, admired, and understood children it had to hurt like H_ _ _.

[GentleBreeze]

How could he be asexual but have those girly mags in his room. The police collected many for the 2005 trial including nude book of pics of men and alcohol from his room I thought he didn't drink?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/michaeljackson/010605jacksonhouse.html

I still say it all ties into being a kid. Boys sneak around and look at racy mags. Were the poses of men erotica or just poses of naked men? What some may see as porn others see as art.

I imagine when he wasn't there the kids that were secretly did a lot of stuff. They could have drank his Jesus Juice. He may have had a drink when he was among adults. Didn't the boy's mom drink there?

imo

[who_is_it]

It is impossible. How does one ever get over a false allegation like this one? Imo they don't. It is a sadder state of affairs that he would even have to prove himself innocent and still call himself a citizen of the US.

The mere allegation alone is enough to ruin someone's life. Maybe Sneddon knew that all along because he had to know more than anyone his case was totally weak.

imo

Yep, you're right. Maybe he never intended to get Michael jailed. He knew to bring him on trial would be enough to ruin his life (imo).

[CinderL.]

For all of you that don't want to discuss the trial, why do you keep talking about it? Or can you only talk about it if you think he is innocent? Just asking. :confused:

[GentleBreeze]

DR was not there
She told the press and family she was not going
TMZ has pictures on their site of her watching the service from home and showed a pic of her in tears while Paris was speaking about her dad

True, she said she did not want to be a distraction.

imo

[kennedy06]

I am NOT suggesting to Wipe any slate clean kennedy..I am only suggesting moving on from badmouthing and accusing at this point because it wont help..There are some who will always believe he molested some kids..and there are some who will never believe it..so what the point..since we cannot prove it one way or the other??

Suffice to say, MJ did do some GOOD/GREAT things..and added alot to this world as we know it..so, all I am saying is to try to remember the Good Things..and not dwell on the possible Bad things...

I have always said..I was not a particular fan..but appreciated his art form and talent..So..take it for what it is worth :mellow:

LMS

But this is a message board not the Pearly Gates!

[MoonHarvest]

I think it's obvious after seeing those kids with their Uncles, Grandparents and most particularly, their three Aunts, who has been taking care of their needs for almost two weeks now.

We can't forget that DR has had visitation in place since 2005 and has chosen not to exercise that right.

She did and didn't ? I did not realize that.

[who_is_it]

Quoting..

:sad::sad:For a person who innocently loved, admired, and understood children it had to hurt like H_ _ _.

I think no one of us even has an idea how painful it must have been.

"We will never understand what he endured ... being judged, ridiculed. How much pain can one take? Maybe, now, Michael, they will leave you alone." — Marlon Jackson.

[MoonHarvest]

I think no one of us even has an idea how painful it must have been.

"We will never understand what he endured ... being judged, ridiculed. How much pain can one take? Maybe, now, Michael, they will leave you alone." — Marlon Jackson.


Unfortunately, I think some among us may have a tiny idea.

[4Life]

I didn't see Oprah there.

I didn't either but I didn't see alot of people. They are not really saying who was there
I only found out today that B Walters and Larry King was there
I don't think the photags concentrated on who was there. The focus was on MJ and that is what the celebs wanted imo

[CinderL.]

I think it's obvious after seeing those kids with their Uncles, Grandparents and most particularly, their three Aunts, who has been taking care of their needs for almost two weeks now.

We can't forget that DR has had visitation in place since 2005 and has chosen not to exercise that right.

I agree with you. I think the children will be fine with the Jackson family. They did seem close.

[Ionmhainn]

In following this story I find myself in two minds about Debbie Rowe. I've posted elsewhere that I believe these "big stories" are meant to make us pay attention and learn some "lesson." I am reminded of the Mary Beth Whitehead case, years ago, in which she was first vilified for agreeing to be a surrogate mother...then vilified anew when she didn't feel able to give her child up!!!
There was much talk about "fulfilling contracts" etc., but very little about the emotional impact.

Being a surrogate mother has often been seen as a generous and selfless act, but I haven't read anything about that aspect in this case. I'm left wondering if it's wrong to "sell" a child, why isn't it wrong to buy one? This is in no way a comment on whether or not non-biological children can be dearly loved and cherished, by the way. I don't think we know enough about the arrangement between MJ and DR...nor should we, imo. However, they were married and cash settlements are par for the course in divorces, as are parents with sole custody.

Anyway, it seems to me that DR is getting much the same treatment as MBW did. Progress.......?

[4Life]

Entertainment news is saying that MJ was either cremated or buried the night before the service.
IMO it could be true. The family may have finally pulled one over on the tabloids and press

[CinderL.]

I just heard Aphrodite Jones on HLN saying that Dr. Murray is going to be the scapegoat for all the other doctors before him.

That's exactly what I have been saying.

imo

I think they are going after all of them. As they should. IMO

[4Life]

I didn't either but I didn't see alot of people. They are not really saying who was there
I only found out today that B Walters and Larry King was there
I don't think the photags concentrated on who was there. The focus was on MJ and that is what the celebs wanted imo I just found this:
Some of these people I didn't see there



Last updated: 11:32 am
July 8, 2009
Posted: 2:32 am
July 8, 2009

Everyone from Queen Latifah to Brooke Shields spoke at yesterday's Michael Jackson memorial -- but there were just as many boldface names who quietly sat in the crowd to honor their friend.

Longtime Jackson pals and mentors Dionne Warwick and Cicely Tyson were there.

So were actors Spike Lee, Wesley Snipes and LeVar Burton.

Jackson's trainer, Lou Ferrigno -- "The Incredible Hulk" TV actor who was getting the singer ready for his 50-show marathon in London -- watched the goings-on from his seat in the audience.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson -- a close confidant of the Jackson family who has been helping them cope with the singer's death June 25 -- was there, but, surprisingly, didn't speak.

Slipping into the crowd -- and photographed shaking hands with and hugging the Rev. Al Sharpton -- was controversial Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan.

Performers who showed up but didn't take the stage included Sean "P. Diddy" Combs, Chris Brown and Kenneth "Babyface" Edmonds.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07082009/news/nationalnews/whos_who_of_celebs_joins_star_studded_se_178137.ht m

[MoonHarvest]

In following this story I find myself in two minds about Debbie Rowe. I've posted elsewhere that I believe these "big stories" are meant to make us pay attention and learn some "lesson." I am reminded of the Mary Beth Whitehead case, years ago, in which she was first vilified for agreeing to be a surrogate mother...then vilified anew when she didn't feel able to give her child up!!!
There was much talk about "fulfilling contracts" etc., but very little about the emotional impact.

Being a surrogate mother has often been seen as a generous and selfless act, but I haven't read anything about that aspect in this case. I'm left wondering if it's wrong to "sell" a child, why isn't it wrong to buy one? This is in no way a comment on whether or not non-biological children can be dearly loved and cherished, by the way. I don't think we know enough about the arrangement between MJ and DR...nor should we, imo. However, they were married and cash settlements are par for the course in divorces, as are parents with sole custody.

Anyway, it seems to me that DR is getting much the same treatment as MBW did. Progress.......?

Again~ we often overlook the emotional impact, which may not be known for quite a while in some cases. How hard is it to give away a child? How long can and does one deny their feelings? If, she had feelings how able was she to carry her wishes out? Would it have been too painful to have a semi relationship with the kids. Or is she unfeeling and now seeing $$$$ we as the audience just don't know.

[4Life]

-----------

For safety reasons jmo

That is what I have heard too
Diana Ross said that the other day too in a phone interview

[CinderL.]

I sure see a resemblance between all three of the children. Especially the two boys. :ohmy:

[GentleBreeze]

WOW thanks for sharing I never saw those before! Now I believe he had it bad all over and didn't want to go white. Why didn't he show this pics to the world so they would stop hating on him for not being black anymore?

I think he was so embarrassed by it. He was supposed to be the unblemished perfect music icon. It truly had to cause him much inner pain.

I knew all along that is what the media wanted us to believe. MJ was proud he was black. His idol was James Brown........a lot of his charities were to help black people.

It was just a smear campaign by the media so they could sell more tabloid trash and get higher ratings.

No matter what he had done it wouldn't have matter to them. They sold the viewers on their thoughts..... not MJs. He admitted years ago he had Vitilio. Of course no one believed him because the media told them not to believe it.

I have even wondered if it had racial overtones. It seemed like the media wanted the blacks to turn away from MJ by constantly saying that he wanted to be white. It didn't work though and I think it is well known among his true fans that he suffered from this.

imo

[CinderL.]

I just found this:
Some of these people I didn't see there



Last updated: 11:32 am
July 8, 2009
Posted: 2:32 am
July 8, 2009

Everyone from Queen Latifah to Brooke Shields spoke at yesterday's Michael Jackson memorial -- but there were just as many boldface names who quietly sat in the crowd to honor their friend.

Longtime Jackson pals and mentors Dionne Warwick and Cicely Tyson were there.

So were actors Spike Lee, Wesley Snipes and LeVar Burton.

Jackson's trainer, Lou Ferrigno -- "The Incredible Hulk" TV actor who was getting the singer ready for his 50-show marathon in London -- watched the goings-on from his seat in the audience.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson -- a close confidant of the Jackson family who has been helping them cope with the singer's death June 25 -- was there, but, surprisingly, didn't speak.

Slipping into the crowd -- and photographed shaking hands with and hugging the Rev. Al Sharpton -- was controversial Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan.

Performers who showed up but didn't take the stage included Sean "P. Diddy" Combs, Chris Brown and Kenneth "Babyface" Edmonds.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07082009/news/nationalnews/whos_who_of_celebs_joins_star_studded_se_178137.ht m


I wonder why Jesse Jackson didn't speak???

[MoonHarvest]

yes.

At the time of the Santa Barbara hearing DR went back to court regarding the children.

DR had believed that she had terminated her parental rights at the time of the divorce and was going back to try to "overturn" and seek custody and/or visitation, mostly as a result of the criminal trial. (Interestingly enough, she did a 180 when testifying at MJ's criminal trial - in total contrast to her family court pleadings as to why she was coming back to seek custody.)

The court determined that she did NOT in fact relinquish her parental rights at the time of the divorce based on a section of the California Family Law Code that requires a child custody evaluation take place before a living parent terminates their rights. Also, child custody and visitation in California is NEVER really final, and remains fluid and subject to change of circumstances.

[This is not the same as adoption or surrogate proceedings - those are in fact "final". But custody outside of adoption and/or surrogate are never really final.]

So, the Court determined that DR really did not relinquish rights. Custody was not overturned or modified NOT because of a Court decision but because DR dropped the Motion in exchange for a Stipulation re Visitation and...........child support.

She received the child support, but never exercised the visitation.

Basically, she sold out those kids TWICE.

(I hope this was not too confusing to read)

No, I got it. Will ponder and write back later, as I have to go pick up some fresh strawberries for the tart I am making.

[CinderL.]

Exactly! But someone was posting specifically about Dr Murray and I see him as the last link in a long chain of enablers.

He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

imo

Wrong place, wrong time, no experience with this drug, not enough equipment to administer this drug. IMO

[4Life]

ON CBS right now ET said they are about to show photos of MJ and the kids from last christmas

[CinderL.]

LOL -- I posted my observation on the memorial thread yesterday but no one responded. He did go up on stage at the end when the family did. IMO the family deliberately blocked him from taking the mike. Just MY personal observation.

I missed your comment yesterday. Maybe Al and Jesse flipped a coin, and Jesse lost...

[4Life]

LOL -- I posted my observation on the memorial thread yesterday but no one responded. He did go up on stage at the end when the family did. IMO the family deliberately blocked him from taking the mike. Just MY personal observation.

Ahem my friend, I replied and said I noticed that too

[GentleBreeze]

It was just reported on HLN that there were needlemarks all over MJs body....old ones and more recent ones.

Who really knows what he was taking and when?

HLN is one of the worst stations about reporting unsubstantiated rumors.

When The Sun came out with all of this a day or two after the autopsy the LA Medical Examiner immediately came out and made a statement and said that the Sun article was full of false information.

CNN and HLN have a way of never keeping up with the latest. I doubt they have a clue that the ME even spoke out about this rumor.

Nancy still says he collapsed right in front of Prince in the living room and that was discounted over a week ago yet she still says it.

imo

[4Life]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/08/barbara-walters-spy-cam-at-jackson-memorial/

Geez does Walters every go out without that spy cam?
I can't believe she took it to the service

[4Life]

LOL ET on CBS tomorrow at 730 will have exculsive video when they went with Debbie Rowe for her plastic surgury on her face.

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/08/barbara-walters-spy-cam-at-jackson-memorial/

I wish they would leave these kids alone.:sad: I can understand fans sneaking to take pictures of the stage area but sneaking to take pictures of these kids is deplorable and a reporter should know better or be ethical and abide by the rules in place.



imo

[ScoobyDoo]

Wrong place, wrong time, no experience with this drug, not enough equipment to administer this drug. IMO

Not to mention gross malpractice.
:bored:

[4Life]

Don't have a link
But I had MTV on earlier and they reported that Diana Ross and alot of the org singers from We are the World are talking about getting together to sing it again at MJs birthday in Aug.

[GentleBreeze]

LOL ET on CBS tomorrow at 730 will have exculsive video when they went with Debbie Rowe for her plastic surgury on her face.

So I gesss she sold that to ET? They went with her? (thud)

Was this recently? What did she have done? She looks the same to me.

imo

[CinderL.]

HLN is one of the worst stations about reporting unsubstantiated rumors.

When The Sun came out with all of this a day or two after the autopsy the LA Medical Examiner immediately came out and made a statement and said that the Sun article was full of false information.

CNN and HLN have a way of never keeping up with the latest. I doubt they have a clue that the ME even spoke out about this rumor.

Nancy still says he collapsed right in front of Prince in the living room and that was discounted over a week ago yet she still says it.

imo

No, not Nancy.....:ohmy::laugh:

[4Life]

I wish they would leave these kids alone.:sad: I can understand fans sneaking to take pictures of the stage area but sneaking to take pictures of these kids is deplorable and a reporter should know better or be ethical and abide by the rules in place.



imoAnd you know Walters is going to say she had nothing to do with it and didn't know th eperson she had with her bought in the spy cam

[Hanalei]

I'm just thankful he didn't :laugh:


I wonder why Jesse Jackson didn't speak???

[GentleBreeze]

Most of the books were inscribed by people who had sent him the books as gifts. During the trial I recall researching EVERY single book and they were collector's item with HUGE price tags. One of the books was even given to him by Elizabeth Taylor. Those books were also NOT out where any children had access to them. Out of ALL the books and magazines they found -- they found one magazine that had two or three fingerprints of the two boys and they found a few in the guest room where MJ had NEVER been which indicated the boys had taken the mags on their own. I think some people forget this boy was not a "child". He was a street-wise 15 year old. I also remember GA saying he could teach MJ about the birds and bees.

Thank you for the refresher. I thought I remembered it that way but it has been a long time since I have read back.

imo

[*Serenity*]

Bill O'Reilly on MJ..............

http://www.popeater.com/music/article/bill-oreilly-michael-jackson/562050?icid=webmail|wbml-aol|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.popeater.com%2Fmusi c%2Farticle%2Fbill-oreilly-michael-jackson%2F562050

I have to question how much $$$$$$$ O'Reily has donated to charity, how many fundraisers he has held, throughout his career.

AND his comment about having children with a white man was way over the top!! I wonder what he thinks of other celebs that have adopted children that are not of the same race? AJ and several others are good targets for him next. Look at the children from all over that Mother Theresa cared for and loved, no she didn't adopt them but still. Just sayin... he just proves himself to be the a$$ that he really is!!

My oh my ... how can anyone watch him? That station has been banned from our home long long ago. Even GV...! BO must be related to PK.

[CinderL.]

Not to mention gross malpractice.
:bored:

That too. :wink:

[4Life]

So I gesss she sold that to ET? They went with her? (thud)

Was this recently? What did she have done? She looks the same to me.

imo

I don't know, they are going to have it on the show tomorrow
They should video with her face all marked up before the surgery, video of her wehn she had the bandages removed and her face all puffy etc... and her looking in a mirror they handed her and she says OMG

[GentleBreeze]

And you know Walters is going to say she had nothing to do with it and didn't know th eperson she had with her bought in the spy cam

Oh of course. ALL of the media sickens me more and more each day.

[disneyfreak]

that was on TMZ, ok they outed Barbara, but they were recording to? PKB

Nope. That was a Getty Image. Probably from someone in the photography section.

[4Life]

So I gesss she sold that to ET? They went with her? (thud)

Was this recently? What did she have done? She looks the same to me.

imo

The video footage will be on tomorrow at 730 on CBS

Less than two months ago, DEBBIE ROWE, MICHAEL JACKSON's ex-wife and mother of his two oldest children, underwent a number of cosmetic surgery procedures, including liposuction and the revolutionary thermage. Now, as the bandages are removed and the minimal scars have healed, find out what she looks like today!
http://www.etonline.com/celebrities/2005/02/34719/index.html

[Callie]

I think it was all innocent. MJ tried so hard to explain that it had nothing to do with sex. It was just sharing a big old bed. No one wanted to listen to what he actually had to say. For some of them through their eyes, not HIS, it HAD TO BE SEXUAL...it just had to be. Why did some immediately see it in only in a sexual way? That has always puzzled me.

I believe MJ would never harm a child. I still think MJ was Asexual and stayed a man/child because that is a part of him there never happened when he was a child. The kid at heart loved to have the kid sleepovers and pretend he was one of the kids who had pillow fights, ate cookies, watched movies and just hung out like any kid would do.

I know this when I was little my mom and I lived with my grandparents for awhile and I had very bad reoccurring nightmares. I would go get in the bed with my grandfather where I felt safe, protected and loved. My cousins both boys and girls would lay on the bed together for hours reading books to each other or playing a board game in the middle of the bed. Have we become so jaded that automatically we assume everything has to have a sexual intent???

While these children weren't his children imo MJ loved all children deeply and felt a kinship with each one of them. That is why it does not matter the race of Prince, Paris or Blanket...he would have loved them if they had been purple polka dotted. He truly loved all children imo.

imo

Good post, Gentle. Thank you. My sentiments exactly.

[trucrimegal]

Don't have a link
But I had MTV on earlier and they reported that Diana Ross and alot of the org singers from We are the World are talking about getting together to sing it again at MJs birthday in Aug.

I hope they do -- I think it would be great to have everyone together again to do it on is BDay...I'll see if I can find anything else out about it...

[Ionmhainn]

Again~ we often overlook the emotional impact, which may not be known for quite a while in some cases. How hard is it to give away a child? How long can and does one deny their feelings? If, she had feelings how able was she to carry her wishes out? Would it have been too painful to have a semi relationship with the kids. Or is she unfeeling and now seeing $$$$ we as the audience just don't know.

Agreed..we just don't know about the emotional impact. What one says in public may be very different from the way one feels inside. :shrug:

[Hanalei]

I don't know any hetro male that has a book of nude men art book or not but my gay friends do. I would never give that as a gift to any of my straight male friends they would freak. IMO But the alcohol was found in one of jackson's bathrooms he said he didn't drink:confused:

Most of the books were inscribed by people who had sent him the books as gifts. During the trial I recall researching EVERY single book and they were collector's item with HUGE price tags. One of the books was even given to him by Elizabeth Taylor. Those books were also NOT out where any children had access to them. Out of ALL the books and magazines they found -- they found one magazine that had two or three fingerprints of the two boys and they found a few in the guest room where MJ had NEVER been which indicated the boys had taken the mags on their own. I think some people forget this boy was not a "child". He was a street-wise 15 year old. I also remember GA saying he could teach MJ about the birds and bees.

[4Life]

Looks like it was back in 2005 unless she's had updated surgery. This was shown back in 2005 -- wonder if it is just a repeat?

http://www.etonline.com/celebrities/2005/02/34719/index.html

Ahh I didn't notice that
Maybe ET is just re airing it tomorrow since all this MJ stuff is going on?

[FallenAngel♥]

I'm curious as to where you saw that any toxicology report is back. Tried to google it and was unsuccessful. Could you provide me with a link, please?

If so, turning over the names of MJ's doctors to the LAPD seems like one approach to trying to figure out what happened. There could be several reasons for doing so, including the family being suspicious of the doctors. On the other hand, who else had more information about MJ's physical condition than the doctors treating him. I don't think it just has to mean that there was a drug overdose. Remember, he was being treated for a chronic, potentially fatal illness....Lupus. The coroner's office is the one to determine cause of death and the statement from there said it would take several weeks for the test results to come back.

Still think I'll wait for the official toxicology report. JMO
LOL.........I said IMO the family already has the toxicology report from the SECOND autopsy.

[ahlou3]

Snipped

however to badmouth her for not "visiting"..one could argue..How would she do that..Mickey was in Bahrain,Irleland and moving about like a nomad for years..Just how would you like to catchup with that??..also we really dont know what blockades his "Worker Bee's' did to disable any visitations...So I dont want to completely blame her...

Snipped
LMS
Who is Mickey?
Who are the Worker Bee's?

[who_is_it]

Dr. Klein:
"And Klein reveals he saw Jackson just three days before his tragic death - when the singer was in good health and high spirits as he showed off his fancy footwork in the dermatologist's office: "He danced in my office. He danced for my patients."

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/jacksons-dermatologist-denies-feeding-reported-drug-habit_1109077

If this is true others (the patients) must have seen this...

[*Serenity*]

Oh of course. ALL of the media sickens me more and more each day.
BO just made me want to hurl after reading his garbage.

[GentleBreeze]

I have to question how much $$$$$$$ O'Reily has donated to charity, how many fundraisers he has held, throughout his career.

AND his comment about having children with a white man was way over the top!! I wonder what he thinks of other celebs that have adopted children that are not of the same race? AJ and several others are good targets for him next. Look at the children from all over that Mother Theresa cared for and loved, no she didn't adopt them but still. Just sayin... he just proves himself to be the a$$ that he really is!!

My oh my ... how can anyone watch him? That station has been banned from our home long long ago. Even GV...! BO must be related to PK.

Nothing gives me more satisfaction than the power of the remote when I silence him in a heartbeat.

He needs to sit down and shut up. He is a loon. Why doesn't HE talk about how he settled his sexual harassment case where the woman said he was calling her up talking the nasty?

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I remembered when Steve Irwin died and the grief poured in around the world. O tried his best to demean Steve until he started getting so much hate mail he slacked off. It is like he is such a jealous man and can't stand that others get more attention than him. Ego......a mile high.

Well all I can say, over a billion people didn't watch O'Reily yesterday but they did Michael Jackson's memorial.:smile:

imo

[*Serenity*]

Who is Mickey?
Who are the Worker Bee's?

I'm not Linda with the Y, but I took it to mean
Mickey = Michael
Worker Bees = Anyone working for Michael
ie; security, phones, Nanny, etc etc


:)

[4Life]

Mariah Carey Worries She 'Let Everybody Down' At Jackson Memorial'It was a true and honest emotional moment,' she tells 'Today' of her voice cracking during 'I'll Be There.'
By Jocelyn Vena
Views 23,406


Mariah Carey had the difficult task of being the first performer at the Michael Jackson memorial on Tuesday. And when her voice cracked in the first few moments of her cover of the Jackson 5's "I'll Be There," she said she felt like she disappointed everyone.

On the "Today" show Wednesday (July 8), Carey described how hard it was for her to sing on the show and how seeing the casket made it difficult for her to get through the performance. "I feel a little bit like I let everybody down, but I really did try and it was difficult," she said. "But you know what I think? It was a true and honest emotional moment."

On Tuesday, Mariah also took to her Twitter to share with her fans her disappointment over her performance and how completely emotional she became at the show. "Trying to sing today was basically impossible for me," she wrote. "I could barely keep myself from crying."

She apologized for the performance, during which she was joined by her "MTV Unplugged" duet partner Trey Lorenz. "I'm sorry that I wasn't able to pull it together and really do it right, but I was literally choked up when I saw him there in front of me," she tweeted. "One thing I know is, we will never really have to say goodbye to MJ. His legacy lives on through his music and the millions of people he inspired with his timeless music. He will be forever in our hearts."
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1615530/20090708/jackson_michael.jhtml?rsspartner=unknown

[CinderL.]

I'm just thankful he didn't :laugh::laugh::laugh: I am believe me.

[4Life]

Must be an old article or Deb needs..... :wink:

It is an old article but I was watching ET tonight and tonights show was new because they talked about the memorial. At the end of the show they showed the DR video adn said they will be airing it in full tomorrow

[*Serenity*]

I have to refrain on comment about O Reilly, think CW is watching me, lol.... he's been banned since Shawn Hornbeck came home.


Are you saying BO is banned from here or from your home?
If he is a banned name around here I didn't know that for I did
not follow the SH forum.

His nonsense spewed on the air about MJ is just as low as PK.
I noticed PK didn't shut Times Square down yesterday, and all
the fans in NY that followed the Memorial. LOL I bet he was
hiding under his desk. LOL LOL

[september]

Nothing gives me more satisfaction than the power of the remote when I silence him in a heartbeat.

He needs to sit down and shut up. He is a loon. Why doesn't HE talk about how he settled his sexual harassment case where the woman said he was calling her up talking the nasty?

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I remembered when Steve Irwin died and the grief poured in around the world. O tried his best to demean Steve until he started getting so much hate mail he slacked off. It is like he is such a jealous man and can't stand that others get more attention than him. Ego......a mile high.

Well all I can say, over a billion people didn't watch O'Reily yesterday but they did Michael Jackson's memorial.:smile:

imo

Maybe he doesn't know we are not to speak ill of Michael.
Can we please get back to how wonderful Michael was.

[LILMANMAX]

BO just made me want to hurl after reading his garbage.

You and me both. He needs to put a sock in it.
That is unless he is going to give all the tawdry details about his little SA settlement. Looney Tunes as I live and breath. :rolleyes:

[GentleBreeze]

No, not Nancy.....:ohmy::laugh:

Shocker, huh?:lol:

[CinderL.]

DR could have gone to Court at any time to enforce visitation, which would have included MJ being the one to pay for airfare to send the kids back to California for visitation.

It happens all the time.

Further, MJ and the kids have been back here for a long time.

My siblings and I are blended between bio and adopted. I agree. Genetics do not a parent make. My daddy was the man who married my mother and adopted me.

I don't think she particularly liked kids. I think she was obsessively in love with MJ, and would have done anything he wanted.

[LILMANMAX]

Who is Mickey?
Who are the Worker Bee's?


Yes do tell.
Inquiring minds want to know.

[Ice Cycle]

I sure see a resemblance between all three of the children. Especially the two boys. :ohmy:

Definitely, as I said earlier.

[*Serenity*]

Nothing gives me more satisfaction than the power of the remote when I silence him in a heartbeat.

He needs to sit down and shut up. He is a loon. Why doesn't HE talk about how he settled his sexual harassment case where the woman said he was calling her up talking the nasty?

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I remembered when Steve Irwin died and the grief poured in around the world. O tried his best to demean Steve until he started getting so much hate mail he slacked off. It is like he is such a jealous man and can't stand that others get more attention than him. Ego......a mile high.

Well all I can say, over a billion people didn't watch O'Reily yesterday but they did Michael Jackson's memorial.:smile:

imo


LMAO..... does he like anyone, excluding himself of course.... LOL

I would send him an email but I digress, I will not give him the attention. He needs attention- good or bad-- just as long as he gets it.

:)

IMO

[CinderL.]

Shocker, huh?:lol:

It really is. I have been a faithful fan of NG for years. She never gets it wrong. How can you say that. :ohmy:

:lol: J/K She is always my laugh for the day.

[CinderL.]

Definitely, as I said earlier.

Yes, you did, and I agreed. :smile: And now that I am seeing more pics of the kids.....I see it even more.

[*Serenity*]

When OR was chatting with Greta when Shawn was found, he spewed UGLY remarks. Posters on the thread emaied and got him removed from giving a speech at a missing kids forum. Never have watched him since.

Hmmmm..... so he has a history of the uglies when it comes to children? Glad he was removed for his ugly behavior.

[CinderL.]

agreed.

and I also have to add, because it IS part of the story, the settlement money she received paid for her house and horses.

And, didn't he buy her a house in Beverly Hills? And, a monthly allowance?

[Unperson1984]

Mariah Carey Worries She 'Let Everybody Down' At Jackson Memorial'It was a true and honest emotional moment,' she tells 'Today' of her voice cracking during 'I'll Be There.'
By Jocelyn Vena
Views 23,406


Mariah Carey had the difficult task of being the first performer at the Michael Jackson memorial on Tuesday. And when her voice cracked in the first few moments of her cover of the Jackson 5's "I'll Be There," she said she felt like she disappointed everyone.

On the "Today" show Wednesday (July 8), Carey described how hard it was for her to sing on the show and how seeing the casket made it difficult for her to get through the performance. "I feel a little bit like I let everybody down, but I really did try and it was difficult," she said. "But you know what I think? It was a true and honest emotional moment."

On Tuesday, Mariah also took to her Twitter to share with her fans her disappointment over her performance and how completely emotional she became at the show. "Trying to sing today was basically impossible for me," she wrote. "I could barely keep myself from crying."

She apologized for the performance, during which she was joined by her "MTV Unplugged" duet partner Trey Lorenz. "I'm sorry that I wasn't able to pull it together and really do it right, but I was literally choked up when I saw him there in front of me," she tweeted. "One thing I know is, we will never really have to say goodbye to MJ. His legacy lives on through his music and the millions of people he inspired with his timeless music. He will be forever in our hearts."
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1615530/20090708/jackson_michael.jhtml?rsspartner=unknown


I expected emotions in everyone's voices. I thought her performance was very good.

Her choice of dress is quite another question. I found it very inappropriate to wear a full length black evening gown with a plunging neckline to a morning memorial service. The Jackson ladies, Brooke Shields and others all looked lovely and appropriate. IMO

[VC2]

WOW thanks for sharing I never saw those before! Now I believe he had it bad all over and didn't want to go white. Why didn't he show this pics to the world so they would stop hating on him for not being black anymore?

It took him a long time to go public with vitiligo. iirc it was on oprah.

Would you want to show pictures of yourself disfigured (in his eyes and many others) to the whole world to rabbit about? I think he preferred the few who were silly enough to say he lied about vitiligo and hated being white to the idea of everyone seeing his markings.

One thing for sure, he had very little self confidence about his looks way before the vitiligo. Joe took care of that, the fire was more fuel to his low self esteem and the vitiligo must have finished it. The people who knew and loved him either believed him orwere close enough they saw it.

I am not sure i agree with GB that he was asexual but i am convinced there was no one he was going to expose himself to by having a sexual relationship (except perhaps lisa marie) because imo a pic of his body would have been his nightmare in the tabloids.

IMO

IMO

[CinderL.]

Hmmmm..... so he has a history of the uglies when it comes to children? Glad he was removed for his ugly behavior.

Actually BO has had many judges removed because of the light sentences these judges have given to child molesters. He is very much an advocate for children. I don't know what he said in the case you are talking about but he gives tons of money to children.

[magnolia]

Most of the books were inscribed by people who had sent him the books as gifts. During the trial I recall researching EVERY single book and they were collector's item with HUGE price tags. One of the books was even given to him by Elizabeth Taylor. Those books were also NOT out where any children had access to them. Out of ALL the books and magazines they found -- they found one magazine that had two or three fingerprints of the two boys and they found a few in the guest room where MJ had NEVER been which indicated the boys had taken the mags on their own. I think some people forget this boy was not a "child". He was a street-wise 15 year old. I also remember GA saying he could teach MJ about the birds and bees.

Oh they were collector's items...and cost a lot of money, well I guess that explains it. As long as there expensive, it's okay then??? Or given as gifts??? And he was NEVER in that guest rooom. Oh, o.k. Too bad

<Sarcasm Level = High>

Really, I can't believe how people explain away all the "red flags" that suggest MJ had inappropriate relationships with children. CHILDREN.

[Hanalei]

Which she had to take him to court because he wasn't paying her

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13839870/


And, didn't he buy her a house in Beverly Hills? And, a monthly allowance?

[CinderL.]

Which she had to take him to court because he wasn't paying her

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13839870/




Do you know what happened to the B. Hills house? Did she sell it to buy her Palmdale house?

[VC2]

Fans have thus far donated $17,000, but contributions have been hampered by technical problems, Matt Szabo, a spokesman for Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, said in a statement.

The site received so many hits that the servers crashed Tuesday night and several times Wednesday, Szabo said. The city's information technology department is working to rectify the problems.

well this is absolutely ridiculous. No wonder the city is broke. They ask all the fans to help pay the cost of security and then don't have the technology to handle it. They lost a huge amount of donations because imo many would have paid the day of the memorial but arent going to fight their system.

Also re AEG.

Last month's victory parade for the NBA champion Los Angeles Lakers cost an estimated $2 million.

AEG Live gave $1 million to the city for that event and other private donors stepped in.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MICHAEL_JACKSON_MEMORIAL_COST?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

IMO they have absolutely no responsibility to pay a penny. They have paid/lost money by using the center for the memorial-ringlings paid one day less, picked up all internal security costs and more.

After they paid HALF the cost of the lakers parade i think its enough. They are not LA's personal treasury for public events.

IMO

[Hanalei]

I agree. I can see both sides. I can see why his behavior might have been not innocent and I can see how how could be misunderstood. We will never know what really happened at Neverland.

Oh they were collector's items...and cost a lot of money, well I guess that explains it. As long as there expensive, it's okay then??? Or given as gifts??? And he was NEVER in that guest rooom. Oh, o.k. Too bad

<Sarcasm Level = High>

Really, I can't believe how people explain away all the "red flags" that suggest MJ had inappropriate relationships with children. CHILDREN.

[*Serenity*]

The city of Los Angeles has only received $17,000 of the $1.4 million it cost to put on Michael Jackson's memorial -- but it's not because MJ fans are cheap ... it's because of the complete failure of the official donation website.

Dont'cha just love how they mislead you with title? LOL

Next to nothing because their own website went down... !!

Earlier it was $1 million and now it has increased to 1.4 million...
by midnight it will be up to $2 million. Exaggerations at their best.


They couldn't handle the web traffic for 12 hours.

http://www.tmz.com/

[MoonHarvest]

Agreed..we just don't know about the emotional impact. What one says in public may be very different from the way one feels inside. :shrug:

Which is where I stand . Let the courts decide, may they be very wise. I think this has multiple layers to be decided. I have no doubt given what is visible right now that the children will be staying with the grandma.

[Hanalei]

I'm not sure maybe someone would be able to tell us if she still owns the B.Hills home.


Do you know what happened to the B. Hills house? Did she sell it to buy her Palmdale house?

[CinderL.]

Dr. Kline on LKL.

[mrsmcgoo]

LOL -- I posted my observation on the memorial thread yesterday but no one responded. He did go up on stage at the end when the family did. IMO the family deliberately blocked him from taking the mike. Just MY personal observation.

This is really just a gut feeling, but I think there is bad feelings in that family toward Joe. I noticed yesterday that he was either not mentioned, or mentioned fleetlingly. He was not shown on camera as much as the rest of the family and he never spoke. I bet he is in the black books from his disrespectful behaviour at the Bet Awards and than in his inpromptu press conference....and that leads to Jesse Jackson, who accompanied him on camera in the immediate days following MJ's death.

Just a gut feeling....and just my opinion.

[CinderL.]

I don't think anyone doubts that Michael's choices when it came to visiting children were wrong.

I don't think anyone doubts that Michael behaved inappropriately for an adult by having sleepovers with kids.

I think what people are saying is that to date, there has been no clear and convicing evidence that he was a pedophile or a child molester.

(By the way, I can't remember the last time I've been in the guest room in my house, and while I have some notion of what's on the bookshelf in there, I guess the next time a niece or nephew sleeps over I should really do a full sweep?)

Weren't you in the guest room in the last few days checking if your guest needed anything, and bringing them breakfast in bed??? :w00t:

[Unperson1984]

well this is absolutely ridiculous. No wonder the city is broke. They ask all the fans to help pay the cost of security and then don't have the technology to handle it. They lost a huge amount of donations because imo many would have paid the day of the memorial but arent going to fight their system.

Also re AEG.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MICHAEL_JACKSON_MEMORIAL_COST?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

IMO they have absolutely no responsibility to pay a penny. They have paid/lost money by using the center for the memorial-ringlings paid one day less, picked up all internal security costs and more.

After they paid HALF the cost of the lakers parade i think its enough. They are not LA's personal treasury for public events.

IMO

Then they should stop holding events.

People are losing their jobs, LA isn't just broke they are 500 million in debt. To add insult to injury, the State is in debt too and they are issuing IOUs instead of checks, so unemployment is iffy for those who are laid off.

[magnolia]

I don't think anyone doubts that Michael's choices when it came to visiting children were wrong.

I don't think anyone doubts that Michael behaved inappropriately for an adult by having sleepovers with kids.
I think what people are saying is that to date, there has been no clear and convicing evidence that he was a pedophile or a child molester.

(By the way, I can't remember the last time I've been in the guest room in my house, and while I have some notion of what's on the bookshelf in there, I guess the next time a niece or nephew sleeps over I should really do a full sweep?)

Bolding is mine...there have been several posters who I think would disagree with the bolded statements above. From what I've read, some see no problem with his relationships with children whatsoever. Maybe I need to reread some posts.

As far as MJ NEVER (not once) going into that guest room, I'm sure it's possible. But it seems each time someone says something about what MJ, it's just..........he NEVER, he WOULDN'T, he DIDN'T, someelse DID it, someone else GAVE it, he's just misunderstood. Denials and excuses are given out soooo liberally that the truth gets covered up.

Some people are so taken with celebrity, fame, talent, money, etc.

[Hanalei]

And some of these books were found in MJ bathroom. If they are high end art books what the heck are they doing in the bathroom? That never made any sense to me.


Oh they were collector's items...and cost a lot of money, well I guess that explains it. As long as there expensive, it's okay then??? Or given as gifts??? And he was NEVER in that guest rooom. Oh, o.k. Too bad

<Sarcasm Level = High>

Really, I can't believe how people explain away all the "red flags" that suggest MJ had inappropriate relationships with children. CHILDREN.

[who_is_it]

<snipped>
I think some people forget this boy was not a "child". He was a street-wise 15 year old. I also remember GA saying he could teach MJ about the birds and bees.

I always think the same, people talk about the accuser as if he had been a little boy.

During the police investigation all teachers were questioned. The AV was extremely rude and offensive at school. None of the teachers had to report something positive. Plus shoplifting & J.C. Penny suit. I could imagine pedophiles would prefer young, cute, shy boys to rude, nasty teens as their victims.

[magnolia]

And some of these books were found in MJ bathroom. If they are high end art books what the heck are they doing in the bathroom? That never made any sense to me.

I'm sure someone will say, that his bathroom was the size of your master bedroom so it was perfectly appropriate...see I can even explain away things also. :)

[*Serenity*]

well this is absolutely ridiculous. No wonder the city is broke. They ask all the fans to help pay the cost of security and then don't have the technology to handle it. They lost a huge amount of donations because imo many would have paid the day of the memorial but arent going to fight their system.

Also re AEG.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MICHAEL_JACKSON_MEMORIAL_COST?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

IMO they have absolutely no responsibility to pay a penny. They have paid/lost money by using the center for the memorial-ringlings paid one day less, picked up all internal security costs and more.

After they paid HALF the cost of the lakers parade i think its enough. They are not LA's personal treasury for public events.

IMO



The Emergency Management Department spent $48,826 for 3,500 lunches from Jensen’s Finest Foods in Wrightwood in San Bernardino County for first responders during the memorial.

AND get this----------------


Greuel told Featherstone she would have rejected the expenditure, particularly after her staff called a nearby Subway and was given an estimate of $17,491.25 for 3,500 boxed lunches. “That’s a potential savings to the taxpayers of more than $31,000,” Greuel wrote.


AND --- their website could not handle the traffic pouring in for donations...........!!!



This is laughable--- they overspend for lunches and do not even use LA County -- then they can't handle donations.

[CinderL.]

I'm sure someone will say, that his bathroom was the size of your master bedroom so it was perfectly appropriate...see I can even explain away things also. :)

It was a very big bathroom. :wink:

[Hanalei]

I know. I have never been blinded by any famous person and I have meet many working in LA as a massage therapist. Since the first time MJ was accused of this problem in 1993 he should have stopped having the sleep overs in his room that would have stopped the 2005 trial from happening. I think his friends and family warned him but he did what he wanted and paid a high price for it.

Bolding is mine...there have been several posters who I think would disagree with the bolded statements above. From what I've read, some see no problem with his relationships with children whatsoever. Maybe I need to reread some posts.

As far as MJ NEVER (not once) going into that guest room, I'm sure it's possible. But it seems each time someone says something about what MJ, it's just..........he NEVER, he WOULDN'T, he DIDN'T, someelse DID it, someone else GAVE it, he's just misunderstood. Denials and excuses are given out soooo liberally that the truth gets covered up.

Some people are so taken with celebrity, fame, talent, money, etc.

[CinderL.]

AND get this----------------




AND --- their website could not handle the traffic pouring in for donations...........!!!



This is laughable--- they overspend for lunches and do not even use LA County -- then they can't handle donations.

That lunch deal really P****es me off. Grrrr.

[*Serenity*]

Then they should stop holding events.

People are losing their jobs, LA isn't just broke they are 500 million in debt. To add insult to injury, the State is in debt too and they are issuing IOUs instead of checks, so unemployment is iffy for those who are laid off.

Yea... and then they overspend by $31,000 for lunches, and didn't even keep the lunch money they spent in LA County.....!!
What gives?

[CinderL.]

Dr. Kline on LKL said he warned MJ about Propofol. So, he must have known that MJ was taking it. Right?

[KaraokeDiva]

LOL.........I said IMO the family already has the toxicology report from the SECOND autopsy.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/29/jackson.toxicology.test/index.html


I think it takes time to get the tox results according to this article...

Money can buy a lot of things...but it's can't speed up everything.

[CinderL.]

I agree and appreciated them pushing him in the background, think Janet probably gagged him.:lol:


Joe and Jesse?????

[*Serenity*]

That lunch deal really P****es me off. Grrrr.

I would really like to see their accounting for all of this, because I think they are trying to pull one here, especially since they sent a large amount of employees home, and don't have any final statements as to what they spent.

[Hanalei]

So someone can't be a victim because they are rude and not shy:rolleyes: Unbelievable what people will come up with:thumbdown:


I always think the same, people talk about the accuser as if he had been a little boy.

During the police investigation all teachers were questioned. The AV was extremely rude and offensive at school. None of the teachers had to report something positive. Plus shoplifting & J.C. Penny suit. I could imagine pedophiles would prefer young, cute, shy boys to rude, nasty teens as their victims.

[magnolia]

I know. I have never been blinded by any famous person and I have meet many working in LA as a massage therapist. Since the first time MJ was accused of this problem in 1993 he should have stopped having the sleep overs in his room that would have stopped the 2005 trial from happening. I think his friends and family warned him but he did what he wanted and paid a high price for it.
Regarding the sleepovers, right. And he didn't, couldn't stop that practice or proceed with caution. He could've at the very least had another adult in the room or a camera or whatever (even though these are not great ideas). He should have stopped having children sleep in his room, unless they were HIS family.

[Hanalei]

If that's true then is everyone going to blame the DR and not MJ too? MJ was warned what could happen.


Dr. Kline on LKL said he warned MJ about Propofol. So, he must have known that MJ was taking it. Right?

[Details]

I always think the same, people talk about the accuser as if he had been a little boy.

During the police investigation all teachers were questioned. The AV was extremely rude and offensive at school. None of the teachers had to report something positive. Plus shoplifting & J.C. Penny suit. I could imagine pedophiles would prefer young, cute, shy boys to rude, nasty teens as their victims.Pedophiles, especially repeat ones, prefer victims who are easily discredited, will not be believed. That's a train in the priest pedophile scandal (many of the boys were troubled youth, brought to the priest to be counseled, helped), and so many others.

He was a child. And that should happen to no child, nice or obnoxious.

[CinderL.]

I would really like to see their accounting for all of this, because I think they are trying to pull one here, especially since they sent a large amount of employees home, and don't have any final statements as to what they spent.

I would too.
Does anyone know the final count of the people who came into LA. What happened to the 1/2 million people they were thinking would come? I know I got in big trouble with my husband for not sending someone to pick him up, and made him take the train, because of the huge crowds that were coming. He said he didn't see anything out of the ordinary. :ohmy::ohmy:

[magnolia]

I always think the same, people talk about the accuser as if he had been a little boy.

During the police investigation all teachers were questioned. The AV was extremely rude and offensive at school. None of the teachers had to report something positive. Plus shoplifting & J.C. Penny suit. I could imagine pedophiles would prefer young, cute, shy boys to rude, nasty teens as their victims.

I can't believe what I'm reading. If he was molested, that would explain part of his anger and rudeness.

ANYONE can be a victim...old, young, nice, mean, fat, thin, cute, ugly.

I'm hoping you didn't mean this.

[Hanalei]

If it was me I would have stopped kids can sleep in their own beds.


Regarding the sleepovers, right. And he didn't, couldn't stop that practice or proceed with caution. He could've at the very least had another adult in the room or a camera or whatever (even though these are not great ideas). He should have stopped having children sleep in his room, unless they were HIS family.

[Hanalei]

Me too if I never see them again on tv I will be a happy clam :w00t:


well gagging them both works for me too.

[GentleBreeze]

I don't think anyone doubts that Michael's choices when it came to visiting children were wrong.

I don't think anyone doubts that Michael behaved inappropriately for an adult by having sleepovers with kids.

I think what people are saying is that to date, there has been no clear and convincing evidence that he was a pedophile or a child molester.

(By the way, I can't remember the last time I've been in the guest room in my house, and while I have some notion of what's on the bookshelf in there, I guess the next time a niece or nephew sleeps over I should really do a full sweep?)

It certainly wasn't a wise adult decision that is for sure. It set MJ up for this very allegation that happened to him and made him an easy target for wannabee money grubbers.

I think he was naive in his thinking and he felt since he knew there was no sexual intent involved that there was no harm done. Unfortunately MJ lived a very sheltered life and he didn't know that society in general seems stuck on thinking most everything is sexually connected in some fashion or the other.

You are correct. No, he should not have been having sleepovers with kids but there is absolutely nothing that shows that his intent was to ever molest a child.

imo

[Unperson1984]

Yea... and then they overspend by $31,000 for lunches, and didn't even keep the lunch money they spent in LA County.....!!
What gives?

:shrug:

I live in LA County, but not the city. I just feel so bad for the people losing jobs and getting an IOU from unemployment. And the banks have said that they won't honor the IOUs after the 10th. How are these people going to feed their families?

Actually the city I live in is doing fine.

[Hanalei]

ITA! It's sad that people will come up with excuses for not normal behavior with kids from grown adults.


Pedophiles, especially repeat ones, prefer victims who are easily discredited, will not be believed. That's a train in the priest pedophile scandal (many of the boys were troubled youth, brought to the priest to be counseled, helped), and so many others.

He was a child. And that should happen to no child, nice or obnoxious.

[VC2]

Don't care if she was there or not, she was crying. I think you cry if I am not mistaken when you feel something.

it brought many of us to tears, i am sure it brought DR to tears as well considering she is their mother whether she was in her life or not.

imo

[Hanalei]

He should have learned for what happened to him in 1993 he wasn't that naive. Why put yourself in that position again is beyond me.


It certainly wasn't a wise adult decision that is for sure. It set MJ up for this very allegation that happened to him and made him an easy target for wannabee money grubbers.

I think he was naive in his thinking and he felt since he knew there was no sexual intent involved that there was no harm done. Unfortunately MJ lived a very sheltered life and he didn't know that society in general seems stuck on thinking most everything is sexually connected in some fashion or the other.

You are correct. No, he should not have been having sleepovers with kids but there is absolutely nothing that shows that his intent was to ever molest a child.

imo

[jewel6]

Does anybody besides myself think that MJ1 looks like the Dr.? Its so uncanny !jmo

[Hanalei]

Yes I believe DR does care for her kids. Just because you don't want to raise kids doesn't mean you aren't human! Some people on this board should be ashamed of themselves for saying mean things about Debbie Rowe


it brought many of us to tears, i am sure it brought DR to tears as well considering she is their mother whether she was in her life or not.

imo

[Hanalei]

So if this is true did this ever come up during the trial. It's hard to believe this is true because this would have blown part the DA's case.Where is the proof she met with this civil lawyer the first time.


I agree with everyone that MJ should not have had a kid in his bedroom and it made MJ an easy target.

In January 2000, a woman named Janet Arvizo consulted with a civil lawyer about suing Michael Jackson for having allegedly molested her son.1 This would have been the second child molestation lawsuit filed against Jackson, the first being the result of sexual abuse allegations that were made by a 13-year-old boy in 1993.

The problem, however, is that in January 2000, Janet Arvizo had never met Michael Jackson; neither had her son. In fact, it would still be another seven months before Jackson would even be introduced to the Arvizo family.

Three years after their initial meeting in August 2000, Janet Arvizo’s son accused Michael Jackson of sexual abuse; the pop star is currently preparing to fight these claims in court. During a recent pre-trial hearing, Arvizo’s plans to sue Michael Jackson before she had even met him were made public by Jackson’s lead defense attorney Thomas Mesereau Jr. According to Mesereau, Arvizo had revealed this information to investigators in June 2003, when she and her children first made accusations against Jackson.2

http://surftofind.com/seminal1

[Poochie Pie]

It certainly wasn't a wise adult decision that is for sure. It set MJ up for this very allegation that happened to him and made him an easy target for wannabee money grubbers.

I think he was naive in his thinking and he felt since he knew there was no sexual intent involved that there was no harm done. Unfortunately MJ lived a very sheltered life and he didn't know that society in general seems stuck on thinking most everything is sexually connected in some fashion or the other.

You are correct. No, he should not have been having sleepovers with kids but there is absolutely nothing that shows that his intent was to ever molest a child.

imo Good post, Gentlebreeze..!! And I agree.. I believe Michael was a very kind and generous person, and wanted all children to just be happy.. He never really had a childhood, as far as enjoying the things children normally do.. It appears that from a very early age his days were filled with performing and rehearsals.. long strenous hours.. I will always believe that is why he created Neverland... To enjoy a childhood that he never had..

Poochie

[jewel6]

No -- neither DR or this Dr K guy have any lips either. Not one feature does he have of this Dr. and he doesn't have a caucasian nose either :confused:

im sorry! You know everything! JMO!!!!!!!:w00t:

[GentleBreeze]

Regarding the sleepovers, right. And he didn't, couldn't stop that practice or proceed with caution. He could've at the very least had another adult in the room or a camera or whatever (even though these are not great ideas). He should have stopped having children sleep in his room, unless they were HIS family.

I think MJ knew he had done nothing wrong so there was no need to change. And really he came in close contact with so many children over the decades and I bet he had loads sleepovers during those times. Didnt he buy Neverland in 1987?

Now he made an unwise decision but I do think he thought if he changed what he had always done, that he said was not sexual, then that would be like admitting he did do something wrong and I truly do not believe he ever did.

imo

[Mnchkin426]

LOL.........I said IMO the family already has the toxicology report from the SECOND autopsy.

Oh..okay. IMO there couldn't have been a complete report from the family arranged (SECOND) autopsy since it was done without a part of MJ's brain. Another reason to wait....IMO.

[Unperson1984]

Oh..okay. IMO there couldn't have been a complete report from the family arranged (SECOND) autopsy since it was done without a part of MJ's brain. Another reason to wait....IMO.

The autopsy ruled out pretty much everything but drugs.

[jewel6]

It was brought up in trial and it did break the DA's case and thus MJ was acquitted

I watched the whole trial too!!!! JMO

[CinderL.]

Ther ya go..another phsysician new about this drug..and had warned him..but why would HE need to warn him??..hum...Is he going to throw Dr. Murray under the bus?...Anyway..sound rather hindsight to me..since we have heard about Nurse Lee's statements..about his need for the drug over 3 months ago..

The difference is..a Doctor ( at least in Canada)..can report those who are a threat to themselves or others ( Form 1)...Hummmming..why would he not report this particular Drug seeking??..hummm,,what was he afraid of??

LMS:ohmy:

Good questions. LKL was good tonight with this guy. He sounds like he wants DR to get the kids and Grace. :ohmy:

[GentleBreeze]

I would too.
Does anyone know the final count of the people who came into LA. What happened to the 1/2 million people they were thinking would come? I know I got in big trouble with my husband for not sending someone to pick him up, and made him take the train, because of the huge crowds that were coming. He said he didn't see anything out of the ordinary. :ohmy::ohmy:

I don't know why they thought all those people were coming. I think it was a ploy for more LE to make overtime money.

They told everyone not to come. That no one would be let in around the Center unless they had ticket and wristband and because the people listened and didn't come then they still have to pay for LE they didn't even need.

I think they are wanting to make money on the deal and want the Center to pay plus the donors too. They will probably come out ahead and look how many hotels were filled, restaurants full and parking prices at a ridiculous price.

imo

[Poochie Pie]

Oh..okay. IMO there couldn't have been a complete report from the family arranged (SECOND) autopsy since it was done without a part of MJ's brain. Another reason to wait....IMO. Hi Mnchkin... IMO the family has a VERY good idea what killed him, or they wouldn't be submitting names of Dr.'s to LAPD... You can learn quite a bit from just testing someone's blood, or tissue samples... You are correct.. Best to wait for the full results, but we have yet to learn exactly what was taken out of his home after his death...

Poochie

[jewel6]

Hi Mnchkin... IMO the family has a VERY good idea what killed him, or they wouldn't be submitting names of Dr.'s to LAPD... You can learn quite a bit from just testing someone's blood, or tissue samples... You are correct.. Best to wait for the full results, but we have yet to learn exactly what was taken out of his home after his death...

Poochie

ITA!!! They know what happened! JMO

[CinderL.]

OH Shaheen is on LKL. He is so cute. What a charming kid.

[magnolia]

ITA! It's sad that people will come up with excuses for not normal behavior with kids from grown adults.

Yes, it is sad. Had MJ just been a normal, everday man, he would have been given no excuses.

The things money, fame, talent can buy.

[Tokyo Rose]

Good post, Gentlebreeze..!! And I agree.. I believe Michael was a very kind and generous person, and wanted all children to just be happy.. He never really had a childhood, as far as enjoying the things children normally do.. It appears that from a very early age his days were filled with performing and rehearsals.. long strenous hours.. I will always believe that is why he created Neverland... To enjoy a childhood that he never had..

Poochie

Which of course involved sleepovers. Well that explains why he was in bed with little boys.:rolleyes:

[Unperson1984]

I don't know why they thought all those people were coming. I think it was a ploy for more LE to make overtime money.

They told everyone not to come. That no one would be let in around the Center unless they had ticket and wristband and because the people listened and didn't come then they still have to pay for LE they didn't even need.

I think they are wanting to make money on the deal and want the Center to pay plus the donors too. They will probably come out ahead and look how many hotels were filled, restaurants full and parking prices at a ridiculous price.

imo

The hotels didn't really have a big bump in occupancy according to today's paper. The reality is that there weren't all that many people who came from out of town.

And thanks to the people who entered the ticket lottery with no intention of attending, about 20% of the Staple Center was empty. I think some people entered just to sell the tickets and when they couldn’t sell them the tickets went to waste.

[Mnchkin426]

The autopsy ruled out pretty much everything but drugs.

Maybe so. The toxicology report will provide an answer. Until then, we don't know for sure. Of course, the autopsy doesn't always provide a definitive answer ...unfortunately. JMO

[magnolia]

Does anybody besides myself think that MJ1 looks like the Dr.? Its so uncanny !jmo

Yes, I think the kids resemble him.

[Poochie Pie]

I don't know why they thought all those people were coming. I think it was a ploy for more LE to make overtime money.

They told everyone not to come. That no one would be let in around the Center unless they had ticket and wristband and because the people listened and didn't come then they still have to pay for LE they didn't even need.

I think they are wanting to make money on the deal and want the Center to pay plus the donors too. They will probably come out ahead and look how many hotels were filled, restaurants full and parking prices at a ridiculous price.

imo Oh they made the money alright, Gentlebreeze..!! You are absolutely right.. Even in death, he probably generated thousands and thousands of dollars for LA.. Not to mention the millions he probably brought in for the US and numerous countries over the span of his career...

Poochie

[jewel6]

Maybe so. The toxicology report will provide an answer. Until then, we don't know for sure. Of course, the autopsy doesn't always provide a definitive answer ...unfortunately. JMO


Since when? JMO

[flipflop]

OH Shaheen is on LKL. He is so cute. What a charming kid.


I was watching. Isn't it funny how when he sings you can't hear his English accent? :smile:

[Tokyo Rose]

OH Shaheen is on LKL. He is so cute. What a charming kid.

I wasn't surprised to hear, at the memorial, MJ invited him to meet in England and to sing a song with MJ at each of the 50 concerts. Hmmm:rolleyes:

MJ always liked to travel with kids. jmo

[Poochie Pie]

Which of course involved sleepovers. Well that explains why he was in bed with little boys.:rolleyes: No need for the rolleyes, Tokyo...!! LOL I will be the first to admit that he probably DID enjoy the sleepovers... Something that most kids do enjoy in their childhood... I highly doubt that Michael ever had that...

Poochie

[CinderL.]

I was watching. Isn't it funny how when he sings you can't hear his English accent? :smile: It is funny. Just a really sweet kid.

[LILMANMAX]

I wasn't surprised to hear, at the memorial, MJ invited him to meet in England and to sing a song with MJ at each of the 50 concerts. Hmmm:rolleyes:

MJ always liked to travel with kids. jmo


OH PLEEAAZZE :rolleyes:

You are not the only one here that can :rolleyes:

[VC2]

I am REALLY getting sick and tired of reporters, including AC acting as if what happened 2 years ago from "sources" is part of his death today. They come up with this stunning news the family tried to intervene(true or not) back in 2007 ang GASP he didn't answer his mothers calls after that.

Well since he was at his mom and dads wedding anniversary in 2009 WHAT IN THE WORLD DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF TEA IN CHINA!

Forget drugs, i bet there are many of us, myself included who have gotten mad at our moms especially when they treat us like 3 year olds...doesnt matter if we are acting like it :tonguewag: ... who didn't return their calls for a while.

this is getting ridiculous. Its one thing to talk about his cod but to be bringing out stuff like he didn't talk to his mom 2 freaking years ago is over the top

IMO

ETA and did you hear NG bashing the coroner's office bc the coroner said the autopsy "report" was inaccurate and in parts totally false? of course you see the "sources" they have are better than the coroner.

GAH. eta too. there were only 2 ppl in the room when the autopsy was done. The deputy coroner performing it and the detective. Seems like they dispensed with all others. So please...why would the other sources be more correct?

[LILMANMAX]

Yes, I think the kids resemble him.


Note to self.
Make an immediate appointment with my Opthomologist.

[Poochie Pie]

I am REALLY getting sick and tired of reporters, including AC acting as if what happened 2 years ago from "sources" is part of his death today. They come up with this stunning news the family tried to intervene(true or not) back in 2007 ang GASP he didn't answer his mothers calls after that.

Well since he was at his mom and dads wedding anniversary in 2009 WHAT IN THE WORLD DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF TEA IN CHINA!

Forget drugs, i bet there are many of us, myself included who have gotten mad at our moms especially when they treat us like 3 year olds...doesnt matter if we are acting like it :tonguewag: ... who didn't return their calls for a while.

this is getting ridiculous. Its one thing to talk about his cod but to be bringing out stuff like he didn't talk to his mom 2 freaking years ago is over the top

IMO

ETA and did you hear NG bashing the coroner's office bc the coroner said the autopsy "report" was inaccurate and in parts totally false? of course you see the "sources" they have are better than the coroner.

GAH. eta too. there were only 2 ppl in the room when the autopsy was done. The deputy coroner performing it and the detective. Seems like they dispensed with all others. So please...why would the other sources be more correct? Oh I assure you VC2, it will only get worse..!! Sad isn't it..??

Poochie

[LILMANMAX]

You do realize the family was also aware of the 1993 settlement and used the same attorney? They were grifters!


Arvizo admitted yesterday that she never told the police that such a thing might have happened until she had had several meetings with lawyers, including Larry Feldman, the attorney who got a $20 million settlement for another teenager allegedly molested by Jackson in 1993.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153863,00.html

Seems to me alot of people around here and other places might not know what the term 'grifters' mean. UNREAL.

[4Life]

I wasn't surprised to hear, at the memorial, MJ invited him to meet in England and to sing a song with MJ at each of the 50 concerts. Hmmm:rolleyes:

MJ always liked to travel with kids. jmo So, he wanted the world to this the talent this kid has. Many people yesterday had no idea who he was, that is why the guy called him back to the stage and told the audience who he was. The kid is amazing and MJ saw it too and wanted everyone to see it. imo
MJ was out there to help anyone he could. MJ having this kid perform at his concerts would have made this kid huge. I am sure he will be huge but performing with MJ would only have sped up things and gave him more exposure

[magnolia]

I am REALLY getting sick and tired of reporters, including AC acting as if what happened 2 years ago from "sources" is part of his death today. They come up with this stunning news the family tried to intervene(true or not) back in 2007 ang GASP he didn't answer his mothers calls after that.

Well since he was at his mom and dads wedding anniversary in 2009 WHAT IN THE WORLD DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF TEA IN CHINA!

Forget drugs, i bet there are many of us, myself included who have gotten mad at our moms especially when they treat us like 3 year olds...doesnt matter if we are acting like it :tonguewag: ... who didn't return their calls for a while.

this is getting ridiculous. Its one thing to talk about his cod but to be bringing out stuff like he didn't talk to his mom 2 freaking years ago is over the top

IMO

ETA and did you hear NG bashing the coroner's office bc the coroner said the autopsy "report" was inaccurate and in parts totally false? of course you see the "sources" they have are better than the coroner.

GAH. eta too. there were only 2 ppl in the room when the autopsy was done. The deputy coroner performing it and the detective. Seems like they dispensed with all others. So please...why would the other sources be more correct?

From what I understand, MJ didn't talk to his family (including his mother) because they were trying to conduct an intervention. This is newsworthy and shows a long-term drug problem. Two years ago MJ's family tried to help him and he refused the help and cut off contact for a period of time.

[GentleBreeze]

The hotels didn't really have a big bump in occupancy according to today's paper. The reality is that there weren't all that many people who came from out of town.

And thanks to the people who entered the ticket lottery with no intention of attending, about 20% of the Staple Center was empty. I think some people entered just to sell the tickets and when they couldn’t sell them the tickets went to waste.

Well to me if I couldn't get a ticket to the memorial I would have stayed home to watch it in the comfort of my home or office.

I read that over a billion people watched the memorial. Thank goodness they all did as they were instructed and in a very orderly nice fashion.

But LE kept on and on and on about DON'T COME and they listened.

That place looked packed. One guy said he had to sit up where the oxygen was thin lol but it was worth it.

imo

[CinderL.]

From what I understand, MJ didn't talk to his family (including his mother) because they were trying to conduct an intervention. This is newsworthy and shows a long-term drug problem. Two years ago MJ's family tried to help him and he refused the help and cut off contact for a period of time.

And then it sounded like because the press got word of it, and MJ wasn't talking to them, some of the brothers, and Kathrine wrote a letter saying it wasn't true that they had tried an intervention, signed by all but Janet.

[*Serenity*]

Yes I believe DR does care for her kids. Just because you don't want to raise kids doesn't mean you aren't human! Some people on this board should be ashamed of themselves for saying mean things about Debbie Rowe


The things said on this board are her own words, and many links have been provided, along with court information. I will speak for myself here-- I have nothing to be ashamed of. :)

[magnolia]

He was at his mother's home with the children as late as May, 2009 :confused:

Yes I know, but that's not when they were trying to hold an intervention. It's not unusual to put an intervention on the "back burner" if it doesn't go well.

[GentleBreeze]

He was at his mother's home with the children as late as May, 2009 :confused:

Yes, the entire family including MJ was there for Joe and Katherine's 60th Wedding Anniversary.

[Hanalei]

IMO I think Prince Michael I looks a lot better the Doc is not attractive.

Yes, I think the kids resemble him.

[GentleBreeze]

From what I understand, MJ didn't talk to his family (including his mother) because they were trying to conduct an intervention. This is newsworthy and shows a long-term drug problem. Two years ago MJ's family tried to help him and he refused the help and cut off contact for a period of time.

Where did you read that? I have not heard that. He and the kids were just there at her home in May.

Newsworthy? What news outlet reported that?

[Hanalei]

Why are they even married there aren't even living together. I must be about the money and if they get divorced now Joe can get half. IMO


Yes, the entire family including MJ was there for Joe and Katherine's 60th Wedding Anniversary.

[Poochie Pie]

From what I understand, MJ didn't talk to his family (including his mother) because they were trying to conduct an intervention. This is newsworthy and shows a long-term drug problem. Two years ago MJ's family tried to help him and he refused the help and cut off contact for a period of time. I believe you are correct, magnolia... I do wish they had been able to help him.. Like Anna Nicole, I believe people who become addicted to PRESCRIPTION drugs don't really think they have a problem... since the drugs are prescribed by a Doctor... They don't see themselves as "drug addicts", IMO

Poochie

[magnolia]

Where did you read that? I have not heard that. He and the kids were just there at her home in May.

Newsworthy? What news outlet reported that?

CNN, Anderson Cooper.

[GentleBreeze]

IMO I think Prince Michael I looks a lot better the Doc is not attractive.

Prince I looks nothing like the doc imo. Prince is a beautiful child.

And neither he nor Paris look like DR either.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

CNN, Anderson Cooper.

tonight?

tia

[magnolia]

Yes, the entire family including MJ was there for Joe and Katherine's 60th Wedding Anniversary.
Okay, they were all there for the anniversary. The whole intervention thing was not scheduled for that day and it didn't go well anyway.

[CinderL.]

Prince I looks nothing like the doc imo. Prince is a beautiful child.

And neither he nor Paris look like DR either.

imo

A few of us think all three kids look very much alike. I don't think they look like the Dr. though. Although he was kind of evasive on that question. IMO

[magnolia]

tonight?

tia

Yes, see VC2's (I think) post up thread. I was also watching. YW. :)

[KaraokeDiva]

OH Shaheen is on LKL. He is so cute. What a charming kid.
So cute...

How old is he???

[CinderL.]

Okay, they were all there for the anniversary. The whole intervention thing was not scheduled for that day and it didn't go well anyway.

I thought it was said that Michael told his security people not to let them in.

[magnolia]

A few of us think all three kids look very much alike. I don't think they look like the Dr. though. Although he was kind of evasive on that question. IMO

All the kids are much more attractive than the doctor, but yes I think the older ones have some of his features. (His better ones, lol. I also keep in mind that he's old.)

[4Life]

So cute...

How old is he???

I think he is 12

[CinderL.]

So cute...

How old is he??? 11/12 something like that.

[magnolia]

I thought it was said that Michael told his security people not to let them in.

Yes two separate occassions. One was the intervention in which MJ told his security not to let them in.

[CinderL.]

All the kids are much more attractive than the doctor, but yes I think the older ones have some of his features. (His better ones, lol. I also keep in mind that he's old.)

It would be interesting to see a pic of him at 12. He sure was concerned with the children's future. :ohmy:

[CinderL.]

Yes two separate occassions. One was the intervention in which MJ told his security not to let them in.

I didn't know there were two. Did one take place then?

[GentleBreeze]

I believe you are correct, magnolia... I do wish they had been able to help him.. Like Anna Nicole, I believe people who become addicted to PRESCRIPTION drugs don't really think they have a problem... since the drugs are prescribed by a Doctor... They don't see themselves as "drug addicts", IMO

Poochie

He sure must have been a functioning addict though. The doctor said he saw MJ just three days before he died and he looked great. He was showing him and the doctor's patients his new dance moves and then we know he did the exhaustive rehearsal that lasted until after midnight.

imo

[*Serenity*]

So cute...

How old is he???

I think he is 13 now...

Here he is when he went to Britian's Got Talent

This clip will blow you away.....:)




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVU4IkzMNIo


He sings MJ song... way before MJ invited him to join him in London.
Explains why Michael wanted him onboard, plus his talent.

[magnolia]

I didn't know there were two. Did one take place then?

No, I'm not sure what you are asking, but here's my best shot.

There was ONE report intervention attempt...not successful.

The anniversary had nothing to do with the above. Another poster just asked about it because MJ was associating with his family then. (Not turning them away like he did during the intervention attempt.)

I hope I answered your question.

[Mamie]

She was there: (statement underneath the video)

"For some reason, she was watching the service outside."


http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/08/debbie-rowe-breaks-down-watching-paris/


I'll bet her attorney got hold of her and told her that she'd better get out there and get some positive press, if even a picture, because come court time, her little "smack down" as JVM calls it, just might have a front row seat in that courtroom. I'll bet that's why she changed her mind and went. JMO

[Tokyo Rose]

All the kids are much more attractive than the doctor, but yes I think the older ones have some of his features. (His better ones, lol. I also keep in mind that he's old.)

If you look at his ears, I think they resemble Paris's ears. jmo

[4Life]

Yes two separate occassions. One was the intervention in which MJ told his security not to let them in.

I read the article in people about this (people is the source of this) and it did not mention that MJ stop talking to his family because of this or asked security not to let them in, in fact they were allowed in by MJ and Janet was on the phone. MJ was mad and denied drug use, but he never stopped talking to his family. This information in people says it came from a "Source"

[GentleBreeze]

I was only responding to the post that said they had no contact with MJ since 2007 and that's not true because they did in May 2009.

According to what AC is reporting - it was only Janet that was involved in trying to intervene and it was not clear if she notified the rest of the family about it. I do believe Janet would have done that - the problem still is if the person (just like an alcoholic) doesn't admit it not much you can do about it.

I wouldn't believe the media if I saw their tongues being notarized. There is no way I believe that KJ did not speak or talk to her son in all that time.

imo

[CinderL.]

No, I'm not sure what you are asking, but here's my best shot.

There was ONE report intervention attempt...not successful.

The anniversary had nothing to do with the above. Another poster just asked about it because MJ was associating with his family then. (Not turning them away like he did during the intervention attempt.)

I hope I answered your question.

I thought you were saying there had been two interventions. One where MJ told the security to not let them in. So, ok only the one. Gotcha.

[Hanalei]

IMO MJ had more sleepovers then anyone of us since he bought Neverland. I had a childhood and sleepovers for me were from age 8-16. So when MJ died he was 50 so when was the childhood going to end? He was a parent and once you are a parent your kids needs come first you don't get to have a childhood anymore. Lets take a look at the rest of the Jacksons they didn't have a childhood either and they were always rehearsing and traveling but they didn't have sleepovers with kids.

No need for the rolleyes, Tokyo...!! LOL I will be the first to admit that he probably DID enjoy the sleepovers... Something that most kids do enjoy in their childhood... I highly doubt that Michael ever had that...

Poochie

[magnolia]

I was only responding to the post that said they had no contact with MJ since 2007 and that's not true because they did in May 2009.
According to what AC is reporting - it was only Janet that was involved in trying to intervene and it was not clear if she notified the rest of the family about it. I do believe Janet would have done that - the problem still is if the person (just like an alcoholic) doesn't admit it not much you can do about it.

Bolding is mine...well, I wasn't under the assumption that he cut off communication with his family for an extended period of time. He reportedly did this during the intervention attempt time period.

AC said Janet notified all the family and they were with her, but it was her idea and her extra effort. She's not denying it.

[VC2]

that was on TMZ, ok they outed Barbara, but they were recording to? PKB

I would expect tmz to sneak a recording or a dozen. I did not expect a journalist of the supposed caliber of BW to take unauthorized sleazy (bc unauthorized) of the children with katherine privately in their seats.

This has gone to far.

IMO

[magnolia]

I wouldn't believe the media if I saw their tongues being notarized. There is no way I believe that KJ did not speak or talk to her son in all that time.

imo

That's not what AC said...he did not specify a long period of time of no communication. Just during the intervention time period.

[*Serenity*]

No, I'm not sure what you are asking, but here's my best shot.

There was ONE report intervention attempt...not successful.

The anniversary had nothing to do with the above. Another poster just asked about it because MJ was associating with his family then. (Not turning them away like he did during the intervention attempt.)

I hope I answered your question.

Do you have a link for the intervention?

[4Life]

No, I'm not sure what you are asking, but here's my best shot.

There was ONE report intervention attempt...not successful.

The anniversary had nothing to do with the above. Another poster just asked about it because MJ was associating with his family then. (Not turning them away like he did during the intervention attempt.)

I hope I answered your question.

Yes one took place with the brothers there and Janet on the phone

[magnolia]

I believe you are correct, magnolia... I do wish they had been able to help him.. Like Anna Nicole, I believe people who become addicted to PRESCRIPTION drugs don't really think they have a problem... since the drugs are prescribed by a Doctor... They don't see themselves as "drug addicts", IMO

Poochie

Yes I agree and many people also have the same misguided analysis.

[GentleBreeze]

If you look at his ears, I think they resemble Paris's ears. jmo

What is up with Paris and her ears? You brought up her ears the other night. I am confused. I do not know why and you werent comparing them to the Dr's then but were commenting that they were big, according to you.:confused:

[Mamie]

Prince I looks nothing like the doc imo. Prince is a beautiful child.

And neither he nor Paris look like DR either.

imo

They certainly don't appear to have her chin, do they? JMO

[magnolia]

I read the article in people about this (people is the source of this) and it did not mention that MJ stop talking to his family because of this or asked security not to let them in, in fact they were allowed in by MJ and Janet was on the phone. MJ was mad and denied drug use, but he never stopped talking to his family. This information in people says it came from a "Source"

Well I was listening to Anderson Cooper the last hour and that's what he said.

[4Life]

Well I was listening to Anderson Cooper the last hour and that's what he said.

Well the article in people is the opposite of what AC is saying, AC and People got their info from a source

[magnolia]

What is up with Paris and her ears? You brought up her ears the other night. I am confused. I do not know why and you werent comparing them to the Dr's then but were commenting that they were big, according to you.:confused:

I just saw Paris again on CNN with her hair tucked behind her ears (when she was speaking). Her ears really resemble the doctor's to me. (I just saw him on LKL.)