S.F. Zoo settles with Dhaliwal brothers

[dinojen]

Couldn't find it in my heart to put the word "victim" in the thread title.. went to court yesterday in his charges regarding his stealing from Target..

Five years probation.. what the heck is wrong with the system !!

Only good thing he was taken away yesterday to begin serving his 16 month sentence in his parole violation case..:thumbup:


<snippet>

SF Tiger Mauling Victim Sentenced For Shoplifting
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) ―

http://cbs5.com/crime/tiger.attack.deal.2.890811.html

© MMVIII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.




Hope he gets to share a cell with a animal lover.. if you get my drift.

CBS just announced also that the San Francisco Zoo will be closed on Christmas Day this year in remembrance of the Carlos and Tatiana.

[Crispy]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28357674/

The parents of a 17-year-old killed in a tiger attack at the San Francisco Zoo last Christmas sued the city and the zoo Tuesday....

[Details]

The city should countersue, for the loss of the tiger.

I've no doubt that they were harassing the tiger - that well-fed tiger accustomed to her cage didn't just randomly decide to jump a wall.

[warhorse46]

hmmm i have mixed feelings about this. i seriously doubt this would have happen if the boys wouldn't have been harassing the tiger :(



I feel the same way. The tiger was provoked & when she acted like the tiger she is, she was executed.

[Mosgranny]

hmmm i have mixed feelings about this. i seriously doubt this would have happen if the boys wouldn't have been harassing the tiger :(

I am on the tigers side in this matter. Being taunted by them leaning over the rails, dangling their arms down. Even a house cat will take the bait to jump and play after a few seconds or minutes.

It is possible the tiger was thinking they were trying to feed him.

This is strickly my opinion.

Know it has been proven the fence was too short, yet, the animal in all his time at the zoo, never made an attempt to jump it, as he probably never had cause to want to.

[dete]

Why debate this again? Let's just be thankful the zoo did what it should have done years ago and made that grotto more secure.

[dete]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28357674/

The parents of a 17-year-old killed in a tiger attack at the San Francisco Zoo last Christmas sued the city and the zoo Tuesday....

I wondered why they waited so long.

[Mr. Moto2]

Why debate this again? Let's just be thankful the zoo did what it should have done years ago and made that grotto more secure.

I don't even see a debate. All the posts have been in agreement. Anyhow, this case is in the news again, so there's going to be discussion about it. Still, I can't believe a year has gone by since the attack!

[bearwds]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28357674/

The parents of a 17-year-old killed in a tiger attack at the San Francisco Zoo last Christmas sued the city and the zoo Tuesday....

****************************

I'm local and the news broadcast with Sousa's attorney, Michael Cardoza, was quite an odd thing to watch.

He was defending his deceased clients actions.

The lawyer started waving his arms rather frantically, up and over his head. Then said, "Even if somebody was doing this the tiger shouldn't have attacked him".

He's right of course. The fence was too short. The tiger got out.

No way around that and settlement will be reached.

If this goes to trial, I'll be totally surprised.


bearwds

[courtsinsession]

an innocent animal caught up in a very bad situation; the Tiger was harrassed and agitated and the dang fence was too short, allowing the Tiger to do what wild Tigers will do- and the Tiger paid with its life. I always feel badly for animals and small children who are innocent and abused--it is of course unfortunate for the person who died as well.

[dinojen]

While I feel for Carlo's family, they lost a son that got involved with Kulbir and Paul Dhaliwal as I feel they were bad influences, that lied to his family of his whereabouts on Christmas last.

I have always had sympathy for the Souza's and for Tatiana.. if the actions of two useless thugs had not happened, Carlos's would still be with his family and a beautiful animal would still be alive.

I hope the zoo and city settles with the Souza's and the other two thugs don't see a dime. Thankfully Paul is sitting in prison this Xmas and will be there hopefully for his whole sentence of 16 months.

<snippet>

Meanwhile, the Dhaliwal brothers are both in legal trouble for reasons unrelated to the attack. Paul Dhaliwal, 20, is about to be sent to state prison to serve the rest of a 16-month sentence he was given in Santa Clara in August for violating probation by leading police on a 140-mph chase. Kulbir Dhaliwal, 24, has been sentenced to 10 days in jail for a drunken scuffle with police that could cost him his security guard's license.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/24/BAB414U0DJ.DTL&hw=tiger+victim+file+suit&sn=001&sc=1000

[LisaM22]

Why debate this again? Let's just be thankful the zoo did what it should have done years ago and made that grotto more secure.

I have to agree, if this happened to those boys, eventually it could of happened to anyone - not defending the boys actions, just saying the tiger should of been secure

[kitty1182]

hmmm i have mixed feelings about this. i seriously doubt this would have happen if the boys wouldn't have been harassing the tiger :(

I agree...

[sunstar]

I think the Zoo should've had a higher fence and for that they'll probably lose the lawsuit or settle with Sousa's family ~ but ~ at the same time beautiful Tatiana would still be alive today too if these young men hadn't been doing something to provoke her. I do think Sousa was the 'follower' of the group, and it's sad he died ~ an unfortunate accident that also cost Tatiana her life. :sad:

[dete]

I have to agree, if this happened to those boys, eventually it could of happened to anyone - not defending the boys actions, just saying the tiger should of been secure

The taunting is secondary.

I'm also kinda glad the tiger did not survive.If it had,I think it would have remembered how it got out and may have tested the new wall.Taunted or not.

:rose: for Carlos

[Bad JuJu]

While I feel for Carlo's family, they lost a son that got involved with Kulbir and Paul Dhaliwal as I feel they were bad influences, that lied to his family of his whereabouts on Christmas last.

I have always had sympathy for the Souza's and for Tatiana.. if the actions of two useless thugs had not happened, Carlos's would still be with his family and a beautiful animal would still be alive.

I hope the zoo and city settles with the Souza's and the other two thugs don't see a dime. Thankfully Paul is sitting in prison this Xmas and will be there hopefully for his whole sentence of 16 months.

<snippet>

Meanwhile, the Dhaliwal brothers are both in legal trouble for reasons unrelated to the attack. Paul Dhaliwal, 20, is about to be sent to state prison to serve the rest of a 16-month sentence he was given in Santa Clara in August for violating probation by leading police on a 140-mph chase. Kulbir Dhaliwal, 24, has been sentenced to 10 days in jail for a drunken scuffle with police that could cost him his security guard's license.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/24/BAB414U0DJ.DTL&hw=tiger+victim+file+suit&sn=001&sc=1000

Kulbir had a security guard's license???
Geeze, to me that's like leaving the wolf to guard the hen house.

[Bad JuJu]

The taunting is secondary.

I'm also kinda glad the tiger did not survive.If it had,I think it would have remembered how it got out and may have tested the new wall.Taunted or not.

:rose: for Carlos
I really don't agree.

[Details]

I have to agree, if this happened to those boys, eventually it could of happened to anyone - not defending the boys actions, just saying the tiger should of been secureUmmm - coulda happened to anyone who jumps the fence that is part of the enclosure and taunts the tiger - that I might believe. The fence they appear to have jumped, that's part of the enclosure. Decades of safety prove that this could not have happened to anyone, there are hundreds of thousands of visitors it never happened to, over many years, with that exact same tiger.

That enclosure was good enough for the zoo to pass inspection, over and over again. There were higher recommendations - but obviously that was no requirement.

Had Tatiana survived - and I wish she had - she should just have been put into a new enclosure with a higher wall. IIRC, she had to shred her claws - very painful for a cat - to get out. It wouldn't take much more. And it had to have taken some strong motivation for her to make the leap.

[Mr. Moto2]

Ummm - coulda happened to anyone who jumps the fence that is part of the enclosure and taunts the tiger - that I might believe. The fence they appear to have jumped, that's part of the enclosure. Decades of safety prove that this could not have happened to anyone, there are hundreds of thousands of visitors it never happened to, over many years, with that exact same tiger.

That enclosure was good enough for the zoo to pass inspection, over and over again. There were higher recommendations - but obviously that was no requirement.

Had Tatiana survived - and I wish she had - she should just have been put into a new enclosure with a higher wall. IIRC, she had to shred her claws - very painful for a cat - to get out. It wouldn't take much more. And it had to have taken some strong motivation for her to make the leap.

Yes, it's all coming back to me. There was lots of discussion last year about the Zoo's AZA accreditation. I believe there was no hard and fast rule for wall height. The San Francisco Zoo always passed the AZA inspections.

[Tracker]

The city should countersue, for the loss of the tiger.

I've no doubt that they were harassing the tiger - that well-fed tiger accustomed to her cage didn't just randomly decide to jump a wall.

It really isn't about the tiger. The cage wasn't escape proof - the tiger proved that. The zoo is guilty.

[Details]

It really isn't about the tiger. The cage wasn't escape proof - the tiger proved that. The zoo is guilty.The zoo had no reason to think the cage wasn't escape proof, it had worked fine for decades. If the men chose to defeat part of the safety features of the enclosure, by hopping the fence, possibly even providing her an escape ladder in the form of one of their limbs - that is not the fault of the zoo.

If you go to the zoo, find an electrical outlet, and choose to remove the cover and stick a fork in it - is it your fault or the zoos when you get electrocuted?

[Jayne]

well in my dumb opinion..Nothing is Escape Proof..IF someone or something or some animal wants to get out..unless it's glass or plexiglass..but then..let's talk strength..

those kids taunted the tiger...

should they have been mauled? no...should they have not done that in the first place? yes..

you play with fire...sometime..probably..you're gonna get burned.

this is tragic..but what were those kids thinking? or what were they NOT thinking? Maybe that's the real point..lack of common sense or even caring about the consequences..

If my kid...did that...I'd be devastated..but sue the zoo? come on...get real...unless unless unless...it was an unsafe place to begin with..taunting or not.

jmo

J

[Tracker]

The zoo had no reason to think the cage wasn't escape proof, it had worked fine for decades. If the men chose to defeat part of the safety features of the enclosure, by hopping the fence, possibly even providing her an escape ladder in the form of one of their limbs - that is not the fault of the zoo.

If you go to the zoo, find an electrical outlet, and choose to remove the cover and stick a fork in it - is it your fault or the zoos when you get electrocuted?

Obviously some can't leave their emotions out of the debate. No one removed an outlet cover or stuck a fork anywhere. The city and state had their chance to prosecute for any laws that were broken. Now it's the parents turn to sue for damages caused by a negligent zoo. Poor thinking by the zoo is not an excuse to be negligent. They're going to lose or settle out of court.

[dinojen]

Obviously some can't leave their emotions out of the debate. No one removed an outlet cover or stuck a fork anywhere. The city and state had their chance to prosecute for any laws that were broken. Now it's the parents turn to sue for damages caused by a negligent zoo. Poor thinking by the zoo is not an excuse to be negligent. They're going to lose or settle out of court.

I see the zoo or city settling with Sousa's in the end, I don't think it will go to trial and I feel they should be compensated for what happened to their son. As far as the other two.. who instigated this whole mess, lied to Carlo's parents about his whereabouts on Xmas day they are right where they belong, behind bars.. one might be out by now.. but Paul has a 16 mos to serve for his other crimes.. he's exactly where he should be. I hope they don't get one red cent.

A young man lost his life because of their stupidity as well as a beautiful animal. JMVHO

[Tracker]

well in my dumb opinion..Nothing is Escape Proof

jmo

J

That's clearly not true. There are limits to how far and high a big cat can jump. While not required, the recommended distance exceeded the those of the zoo. If the recommended distance was equal to what the zoo had and the cat still managed to get out, I might agree with you.
Saying the "cat never got out before" so why would the zoo suspect it could get out, is alot like saying "the dog's never bitten anyone before now" - and those owners tend to be found negligent in court.
The zoo had been 'lucky' for decades.

[Details]

Obviously some can't leave their emotions out of the debate. No one removed an outlet cover or stuck a fork anywhere. The city and state had their chance to prosecute for any laws that were broken. Now it's the parents turn to sue for damages caused by a negligent zoo. Poor thinking by the zoo is not an excuse to be negligent. They're going to lose or settle out of court.The fence that they appear to have jumped over was a safety measure. From what other patrons say, they were taunting animals, and there were items in the enclosure that suggest they might have thrown something at the tiger.

That is exactly like taking a protective cover off (stepping over the fence) and sticking a fork in (taunting the tiger).

And they didn't prosecute the boys - no doubt so as to not appear unsympathetic. If you stuck the fork in the socket, you probably wouldn't be charged for removing the cap - people generally figure you got your punishment already. Doesn't mean it can't be brought up at the lawsuit.

[daniel green]

The city should countersue, for the loss of the tiger.

I've no doubt that they were harassing the tiger - that well-fed tiger accustomed to her cage didn't just randomly decide to jump a wall.

No kidding.

And it led to the destruction of that gorgeous animal.

[awareness]

This is a terrible thing to have to go through and I feel sorry for the Souza family, but no amount of money will bring their son back. They probably waited so long to sue cause they were torn on what to do, to sue or not to sue. They may have waited also cause they know their son is partly guilty from his own actions with provoking Tatiana.

I also feel the Zoo should ultimately be held responsible for caging the tiger properly - also making sure the general public couldnt get IN the enclosure as well. Im sure that zoo animals get taunted every day from idiot patrons, but most arent going over fences to do so. HOWEVER, it was clear the Zoo had met and passed inspections - so if their prior enclosure wasn't good enough - who's to say the lawsuit is targeting the right groups? Wouldnt they also want to sue whomever/whatever organization created the guidelines that the Zoo apparently met prior to the incident?

The tiger was clearly just being herself and was provoked. I dont blame her in the least and JMO she shouldnt have been killed.

JMO/IMO

[Tracker]

The fence that they appear to have jumped over was a safety measure. From what other patrons say, they were taunting animals, and there were items in the enclosure that suggest they might have thrown something at the tiger.

That is exactly like taking a protective cover off (stepping over the fence) and sticking a fork in (taunting the tiger).

And they didn't prosecute the boys - no doubt so as to not appear unsympathetic. If you stuck the fork in the socket, you probably wouldn't be charged for removing the cap - people generally figure you got your punishment already. Doesn't mean it can't be brought up at the lawsuit.

You've missed the point completely IMO. The tiger was provoked, but any number of things could have caused a tiger to attack such as a kite, balloon, roller skates or who knows what. That it hadn't attacked in the past is no guarantee that it never would attack and that's as weak an excuse as there is, IMO. Clearly, the cage wasn't adequate to protect the public. Do you actually believe a judge or jury will aquit the zoo of any and all responsibilty?

[dinojen]

Love some of the comments of the local people in regards to this suit. While I do feel for the Sousa's.. and I am of the belief they will settle out of court. Do I think the thugs they allowed their son to hang with deserve anything.. yeah.. a jail term longer than they both got for other crimes..

While some of the comments about the Sousa family being out for money I totally disagree with but the consensus about the Dhaliwal's is right on track IMO.

I have been to this zoo so many times as a young child and have taken my own kids there.. it's beautiful.. they met the requirements and were always accredited.. I know improvements have been made since this tragedy and the loss of one young man and a beautiful animal. They closed the zoo this Christmas on the anniversary of this incident.

Just some local people's thoughts on the subject.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/comments/view?f=/c/a/2008/12/24/BAB414U0DJ.DTL

[JD1974]

You've missed the point completely IMO. The tiger was provoked, but any number of things could have caused a tiger to attack such as a kite, balloon, roller skates or who knows what. That it hadn't attacked in the past is no guarantee that it never would attack and that's as weak an excuse as there is, IMO. Clearly, the cage wasn't adequate to protect the public. Do you actually believe a judge or jury will aquit the zoo of any and all responsibilty?

I would aquit them. The enclosure passed every inspection. How is money going to bring their son back, how does money help heal? It doesn't IMO If you lost a child NO amount of money in the world would help you heal. I can see if the parents are suing to make the zoo build a better wall so something like that wouldn't happen again but I am so sick of hearing people say they are suing (for money) because it helps them heal.

I used to not feel this way until my grandfather died due to malpractice, I was all over my grandmother to sue them for what they did. She looked me straight in the face and asked me if suing them would bring my grandfather back...

[dinojen]

I would aquit them. The enclosure passed every inspection. How is money going to bring their son back, how does money help heal? It doesn't IMO If you lost a child NO amount of money in the world would help you heal. I can see if the parents are suing to make the zoo build a better wall so something like that wouldn't happen again but I am so sick of hearing people say they are suing (for money) because it helps them heal.

I used to not feel this way until my grandfather died due to malpractice, I was all over my grandmother to sue them for what they did. She looked me straight in the face and asked me if suing them would bring my grandfather back...

My father died of malpractice in a local hospital at the age of 47, no call was made to tell us he had died.. multiple mistakes.. to a healthy man that had his whole life ahead of him.

My mother did sue, we did testify, jury trial, did it take the pain away.. no.. the only thing good that happened out of the trial was the awareness and changes the hospital made to their procedures so something like this would never happen again.

It really upsets me to see jury's or judges set this outlandish multi-million dollar awards.. in some cases... it's gotten ridiculous IMO.


This poor tiger's paws were shredded trying to get out of her enclosure.. why be so desperate to get out unless you are being taunted.. and she had never attempted this before..

Very sad...

[JD1974]

Love some of the comments of the local people in regards to this suit. While I do feel for the Sousa's.. and I am of the belief they will settle out of court. Do I think the thugs they allowed their son to hang with deserve anything.. yeah.. a jail term longer than they both got for other crimes..

While some of the comments about the Sousa family being out for money I totally disagree with but the consensus about the Dhaliwal's is right on track IMO.

I have been to this zoo so many times as a young child and have taken my own kids there.. it's beautiful.. they met the requirements and were always accredited.. I know improvements have been made since this tragedy and the loss of one young man and a beautiful animal. They closed the zoo this Christmas on the anniversary of this incident.

Just some local people's thoughts on the subject.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/comments/view?f=/c/a/2008/12/24/BAB414U0DJ.DTL



WOW I wonder if this is the jury pool speaking, if so I think the family would be better off dropping the suit...unless as so many posters on that message board are saying they want that token $1

[JD1974]

My father died of malpractice in a local hospital at the age of 47, no call was made to tell us he had died.. multiple mistakes.. to a healthy man that had his whole life ahead of him.

My mother did sue, we did testify, jury trial, did it take the pain away.. no.. the only thing good that happened out of the trial was the awareness and changes the hospital made to their procedures so something like this would never happen again.

It really upsets me to see jury's or judges set this outlandish multi-million dollar awards.. in some cases... it's gotten ridiculous IMO.


This poor tiger's paws were shredded trying to get out of her enclosure.. why be so desperate to get out unless you are being taunted.. and she had never attempted this before..

Very sad...

I am so sorry to hear that about your father, but that is the point I am making, your mother got results from suing not just monetary awards. That imo is the reason to sue, no one wants to admit or change the mistakes so you use to force them to.

[dinojen]

I am so sorry to hear that about your father, but that is the point I am making, your mother got results from suing not just monetary awards. That imo is the reason to sue, no one wants to admit or change the mistakes so you use to force them to.


Exactly, she actually got a call after the trial from the hospital administrator and he assured her that under his watch no one would be treated the way my father or our family was.. and I think he meant, many changes were made.

On a side note, the Dr. that did the "exploratory" surgery who we sued also.. committed suicide two years after the trial due to more malpractice lawsuits filed against him, he was supposedly the best you could have..

It was never about the money.. it was about making changes.. so it wouldn't happen again

[dinojen]

WOW I wonder if this is the jury pool speaking, if so I think the family would be better off dropping the suit...unless as so many posters on that message board are saying they want that token $1

Never even thought about the jury pool... I would think they would think twice about putting the Dhaliwal's on the stand as witnesses...that would do them in right there.

[JD1974]

Exactly, she actually got a call after the trial from the hospital administrator and he assured her that under his watch no one would be treated the way my father or our family was.. and I think he meant, many changes were made.

On a side note, the Dr. that did the "exploratory" surgery who we sued also.. committed suicide two years after the trial due to more malpractice lawsuits filed against him, he was supposedly the best you could have..

It was never about the money.. it was about making changes.. so it wouldn't happen again


See that is the thing that really bothered me about what was written in the paper, the family says suing will bring closure...how does money bring about closure? How does money help heal your family after a loved one is killed? The zoo has put in electric fences now, they have solved the original problem, so you can't really say the family is suing to force them to make changes because they already have. So what is left? MONEY

[JD1974]

Never even thought about the jury pool... I would think they would think twice about putting the Dhaliwal's on the stand as witnesses...that would do them in right there.


I hope someone is keeping track of the public's perception of this lawsuit is...especially the city.

[JD1974]

These are the feelings of others in this case. Besides the ones who hope they are pulled for a jury trial so the plaintiffs won't be awarded something.

This speaks volumes...

Too bad the tiger can't counter-sue

[JD1974]

I have a question. When I lived in Indiana my brother in law was hit by a train, there were no crossing arms, no blinking lights and he slid onto the tracks because of ice. The train driver blew his horn as a warning and could not stop in time.

Ok so that is the case in a nutshell. Now here is what happened. First he did not die, he lived but has some mental issues, he can work, has his own home etc. he is just slow with some things. Anyway his family sued on his behalf (at the time he was still in rehab, he had to relearn how to write, count, feed himself etc. he couldn't even remember my sister had given birth to their only child, he thought she was still pregnant) so anyway his family took over everything and consulted a lawyer. My sister was asked to go in and give a statement because they were actually going to try and change the law about children collecting on behalf of a injured parent.


They offered him 900k almost a million dollars and the family turned it down (my sister was not involved because prior to this they were going through a divorce) they wanted 3 million. They take it to trial, jury finds 50/50 negligence 50% for the brother in law and 50% for the train company so the family gets nothing. These people were horrible, they had houses picked out for themselves, new vehicles etc...it was disgusting.

After all the background my question is, in California do they have a law like that? If both people are at fault there is no award?

[bearwds]

[QUOTE=JD1974..
." The zoo has put in electric fences now....." ....<<SNIP-SNIP>>[/QUOTE]

***************************

Hey JD....... Not only electric fence, but also cameras and a Plexiglas shield on top of an increased barrier.

After attack, zoo said fence was 18-feet. It was actually 12 1/2.

Association of Zoos and Aquariums recommended 16.4-feet, but zoo never cited.


bearwds

[dinojen]

***************************

Hey JD....... Not only electric fence, but also cameras and a Plexiglas shield on top of an increased barrier.

After attack, zoo said fence was 18-feet. It was actually 12 1/2.

Association of Zoos and Aquariums recommended 16.4-feet, but zoo never cited.


bearwds

They weren't cited because they met the "requirements" if I recall.. not the recommended. Only necessary to meet the requirements. Seemed to have worked all the years in the past prior to this incident..

Glad to know they have improved the environment though.. not sure how fair it is to the animal...

[JD1974]

***************************

Hey JD....... Not only electric fence, but also cameras and a Plexiglas shield on top of an increased barrier.

After attack, zoo said fence was 18-feet. It was actually 12 1/2.

Association of Zoos and Aquariums recommended 16.4-feet, but zoo never cited.


bearwds

Because a recommendation is just that, it is an opinion. They zoo was never cited because it fell within the required height. Recommending something and requiring something are two different things, if the inspectors thought it would be a problem they would have required the zoo to change it...they didn't.


ETA Why aren't these parents suing the kids who actually caused the tiger to attack, no money there?

[bearwds]

Because a recommendation is just that, it is an opinion. They zoo was never cited because it fell within the required height. Recommending something and requiring something are two different things, if the inspectors thought it would be a problem they would have required the zoo to change it...they didn't.

***************************

That's why I said "recommended". Like it was only a suggestion.

Moat was also empty.

There is a lady that boards a horse out here that is a volunteer at that zoo. Been there for years. I had heard through media that zoo director was autocratic and didn't work well with others. Bad morale. I asked her about this. She denied that and said there were no problems. He was fired a short time later.


bearwds

[JD1974]

I also agree with another post from there...


Why do we not have a law that states if you do anything that causes harm to yourself while drunk or on drugs disqualifies you from punative damages? I just keep thinking about someone breaking into my house, I shoot them then they sue me because they cannot work anymore due to the wounds I inflicted on them....they broke the law yet I have to pay!

[JD1974]

***************************

That's why I said "recommended". Like it was only a suggestion.

Moat was also empty.

There is a lady that boards a horse out here that is a volunteer at that zoo. Been there for years. I had heard through media that zoo director was autocratic and didn't work well with others. Bad morale. I asked her about this. She denied that and said there were no problems. He was fired a short time later.


bearwds

You also stated the zoo was never cited, why should they be if they are going by the required wall height?

[bearwds]

You also stated the zoo was never cited, why should they be if they are going by the required wall height?

********************************

They were never cited because the Association can only recommend. Height limit was never "required" by anyone. Would think OSHA or another entity will now regulate. Needs to be done. Can't rely on zoos doing a "guess" when safety is is paramount.


bearwds

[Tracker]

How is money going to bring their son back, how does money help heal? It doesn't IMO If you lost a child NO amount of money in the world would help you heal. I can see if the parents are suing to make the zoo build a better wall so something like that wouldn't happen again but I am so sick of hearing people say they are suing (for money) because it helps them heal.

I used to not feel this way until my grandfather died due to malpractice, I was all over my grandmother to sue them for what they did. She looked me straight in the face and asked me if suing them would bring my grandfather back...

I never mentioned money at all. All I'm saying is that IMO if this goes to trial the zoo will lose. The zoo will probably settle out of court.

[JD1974]

I never mentioned money at all. All I'm saying is that IMO if this goes to trial the zoo will lose. The zoo will probably settle out of court.

You didn't THEY did. They said the lawsuit would start the healing process, they are suing for money, last I knew money doesn't heal anything except your financial circumstances. From what I am reading from SF people who are almost begging to be on a jury, the zoo wouldn't lose a thing.


ETA I have read that the tiger used a body or limb to climb out of the enclosure, does anyone know if that is true? If it is they in essence let the tiger out themselves, that has nothing to do with wall height. Also that the tiger bypassed innocent people and only went after those 3???

[Tracker]

[QUOTE=JD1974;12594475] From what I am reading from SF people who are almost begging to be on a jury, the zoo wouldn't lose a thing.

QUOTE]

Because they're the most vocal, but a jury isn't picked or made up of beggars, and it may be heard by a judge.

[dinojen]

[QUOTE=JD1974;12594475] From what I am reading from SF people who are almost begging to be on a jury, the zoo wouldn't lose a thing.

QUOTE]

Because they're the most vocal, but a jury isn't picked or made up of beggars, and it may be heard by a judge.

Jury or judge.. either way the details of the escapades of the three young men will come to light along with the comments made by the brothers as they were loaded into the EMT vehicle.

Their behavior that day, use of drugs and underage drinking by two of the three will all play a part in their actions that day.

I think the zoo and the Sousa's would be smart to settle. JMHO

[sunstar]

San Francisco wants tiger victim to repay costs

updated 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
SAN FRANCISCO - Officials want a survivor of a tiger attack at the San Francisco Zoo to reimburse the city more than $75,000 for his medical treatment and are asking that the money come out of any cash settlement the victim may receive.

The city cited regulations that let liens for city-funded medical care be placed against damages recovered in wrongful injury or death cases.

The tax department said in a lien filed this week in federal court that Kulbir Dhaliwal has yet to pay for medical treatment provided by the city after the mauling on Christmas Day 2007.

Dhaliwal, who was 23 at the time of the attacks, suffered deep cuts and bites and underwent surgery to repair damage to his knees, according to a claim he and his brother filed last spring. The lien does not specify what medical care Dhaliwal received from the city.

The filing comes less than two months after Dhaliwal and his younger brother, Paul Dhaliwal, sued the San Francisco Police Department, the zoo and a public relations firm hired by the zoo in the days after the attack.

The lawsuit accuses the zoo of negligence because the tiger enclosure was lower than recommended national standards. The suit, which seeks unspecified damages, also claims the zoo started a smear campaign against the brothers following the attack.

more at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28474480/

[TobyTiger]

Partial justice...


Rest in Peace, Tatiana
:rose:

[Mr. Moto2]

This happened over a month ago. I guess it slipped under our radar.

$900,000 settlement to be split between the Dhaliwal brothers and Geragos:

http://www.ktvu.com/news/19602045/detail.html#

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/30/BAG217TGRP.DTL

[n/t]

It mentions Sousa's family got a settlement also but didn't disclose the amount. I would imagine it would be significantly more than what the Dhaliwal brothers got.

I'm not surprised by the settlement. The zoo was negligent. Let's hope it's an eye opener for other zoos to ensure the safety of their visitors. As with any tragedy, there's always a lesson learned.

[Ninja108]

On one hand, the zoo WAS neglient in the height requirtments. On the other hand, this animal attack occured like many of them do, including bears,rattlesnakes, gila monsters list goes on and on. Sometimes the attacks are unprovoked but in the majority of cases they're like this. Stupid people provoke and taunt the animal and it reacts,sometimes fatally. Wild animals react due to instinct. The choose to torment and tease them is solely a human trait.

[Mr. Moto2]

Kulbir Dhaliwal busted on cocaine charge.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/25/BAB418V7PB.DTL

[Hanford]

I see the zoo or city settling with Sousa's in the end, I don't think it will go to trial and I feel they should be compensated for what happened to their son. As far as the other two.. who instigated this whole mess, lied to Carlo's parents about his whereabouts on Xmas day they are right where they belong, behind bars.. one might be out by now.. but Paul has a 16 mos to serve for his other crimes.. he's exactly where he should be. I hope they don't get one red cent.

A young man lost his life because of their stupidity as well as a beautiful animal. JMVHO

Hi,
I have only read the thread to this point, but I completely agree with this post.
(I also read other sources when the event first happened)

[courtsinsession]

Couldn't find it in my heart to put the word "victim" in the thread title.. went to court yesterday in his charges regarding his stealing from Target..

Five years probation.. what the heck is wrong with the system !!

Only good thing he was taken away yesterday to begin serving his 16 month sentence in his parole violation case..:thumbup:


<snippet>

SF Tiger Mauling Victim Sentenced For Shoplifting
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) ―

http://cbs5.com/crime/tiger.attack.deal.2.890811.html

© MMVIII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.




Hope he gets to share a cell with a animal lover.. if you get my drift.

CBS just announced also that the San Francisco Zoo will be closed on Christmas Day this year in remembrance of the Carlos and Tatiana.
The victim here was poor Taitania(sp)