July 1 to

[north-eh]

Wishing all of my Canadian friends a Happy Canada Day...eh! I love Canada, she rocks! :thumbsup:

Praying for the recovery of Victoria today.
N

[moonlite]

Greetings"

I was just checking to see if there has been any updates on Tori's case. Sad' that Lil Tori has not been found yet!!

Anyone know if MR has said anything new regarding where Tori can be located?

Moonlite

[n/t]

Greetings"

I was just checking to see if there has been any updates on Tori's case. Sad' that Lil Tori has not been found yet!!

Anyone know if MR has said anything new regarding where Tori can be located?

Moonlite

Sadly, nothing new. No updates on the search. Tori's remains will probably never be found.

I'm just glad they caught the perps and she will get justice.

[north-eh]

Well as slow as news is in this case, I did find this to share with you.


Event raises money for Child Find
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1643826
Expositor Staff


A city event in memory of Victoria (Tori) Stafford raised about $2,400 for Child Find Ontario.

The fundraiser, held at the Brantford Air Force Club and organized by city residents Shelley Norton and Elaine McCabe, included bands, a barbecue and raffles.

Tori's father, Rodney Stafford, spent the day at the event as a willing dunk tank participant.

McCabe said an estimated 300 people attended, with dozens of children getting fingerprinted by city police officers using Child Find kits.

"We were impressed with the community involvement," said McCabe. "For our first event, we consider this a real success."

McCabe and Norton, who organized a candlelight vigil for Tori in Harmony Square in April, now plan to help Rodney with a bicycle trip he is planning in August in honour of his daughter.

A man and a woman have been charged in the abduction and killing of eight-year-old Victoria Stafford, who was last seen leaving her Woodstock school with a woman in early April. Her body hasn't been found.


It was good to hear that Rodney was there participating for the children. :thumbsup:
N

[moonlite]

Well as slow as news is in this case, I did find this to share with you.


Event raises money for Child Find
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1643826
Expositor Staff


A city event in memory of Victoria (Tori) Stafford raised about $2,400 for Child Find Ontario.

The fundraiser, held at the Brantford Air Force Club and organized by city residents Shelley Norton and Elaine McCabe, included bands, a barbecue and raffles.

Tori's father, Rodney Stafford, spent the day at the event as a willing dunk tank participant.

McCabe said an estimated 300 people attended, with dozens of children getting fingerprinted by city police officers using Child Find kits.

"We were impressed with the community involvement," said McCabe. "For our first event, we consider this a real success."

McCabe and Norton, who organized a candlelight vigil for Tori in Harmony Square in April, now plan to help Rodney with a bicycle trip he is planning in August in honour of his daughter.

A man and a woman have been charged in the abduction and killing of eight-year-old Victoria Stafford, who was last seen leaving her Woodstock school with a woman in early April. Her body hasn't been found.


It was good to hear that Rodney was there participating for the children. :thumbsup:
N

Greetings'
North-eh"

Thanks for sharing this and it does sound like they had a good outcome. I would definitely give money for this cause too!!! I think it could possibly help other children.

It's very sad Lil Tori has not been found!! Hopefully we will all learn more when the trial starts next year.
I just can't get over the fact the perp's don't know where Tori is located . I think that just bugs me to know end!! I do think they know' their just not saying!!!

This is one of those times I wish Canada had really strong laws against child murders.IMO I think sending a serious message to other potential perps could help prevent other child murders!! Ok' this is just my opinion.

I think we need to start sending a message to the perps here in America too!! Enough is enough' it's time people and governments get tough with these perps.
No more just slap the person on the wrist with these light sentences!!

Moonlite

[BevAnn]

I just can not tell you how ANGRY it makes me that they have these 2 in custody and we still DO NOT HAVE TORI BACK!!!!

omg, if I was her mom or dad I would be digging a hole under the jail to get in to those 2 and beat the info out of them!! :cursing:

It's absolutely ridiculous!!

[jljayne]

<snip>

Tori's remains will probably never be found.

<snip>

Sad to say it, but:

They that know something are unwilling to speak, and they that are willing to speak don't know anything.

In other words:

Some people would if only they could, and some people could if only they would.

[north-eh]

Well still nothing new to report but I do have this for you.

Still no sign of Tori Stafford, 3 months after Woodstock girl disappeared
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090708/national/missing_girl
WOODSTOCK, Ont. - It was three months ago today that eight-year-old Tori Stafford vanished without a trace in Woodstock, Ont.


On April 8th, a massive search of the community began after Tori was last seen leaving her school with a mystery woman. Police now allege that woman may have been one of two people charged with the girl's kidnapping and murder.


Terri-Lynne McClintic, 19, and Michael Thomas Rafferty, 26, remain in custody at the London-Middlesex Detention Centre.


Rafferty's next court appearance is set for July 17 in Woodstock while McClintic is scheduled to next appear in court on August 14.
Police have not yet found any trace of Tori, who would have turned nine a week from today

O/T here but I just wanted to add that I hope you all are enjoying the summer and the weather is co-operating for you. We haven't had too much in the way of heat here in Southern Ontario but at least the sun is shining and it saves on the a/c. Gotta love that.:smile:
I pray Victoria is recovered and laid to rest so her family can have some peace of mind at least in that regard.
tty soon my friends.
N

[Gugug]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1647474

Hmmm. Stolen goods? Proceeds of crime, perhaps? Things stolen to raise money for drugs? I assume these two will be checked out thoroughly by police for links to other crimes.

[Gugug]

http://www.profilecanada.com/companydetail.cfm?company=2545009_Ontario_Mobile_T ruck_Svc_Woodstock_ON

Could this be the same Richard Wilson of Pawntario, who was arrested?

[Gugug]

From this link: http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1647474

WOODSTOCK — On Tuesday, during the evening hours, the Oxford Community Police Service made two arrests and seized a significant quantity of stolen goods after conducting a search of a Woodstock business.

Acting on information received from the Stratford Police Service, members of the Oxford Community Police Service Criminal Investigations Branch entered Pawntario, located at 451 Dundas St., recovering items stolen from a Stratford area Canadian Tire. Under further authority of a search warrant, police seized approximately $25,000 worth of stolen tools and electronics.

Police have charged the business owner Kenneth Richard Wilson, 36 of Woodstock, and employee Robbie Martin Wilson, 28 of East Zorra Tavistock with Possession Over $5000. They are to attend court on August 18, to answer to the charges.

Thought I'd better copy the article directly, with so many links going defunct.

And from the second link:
http://www.profilecanada.com/companydetail.cfm?company=2545009_Ontario_Mobile_T ruck_Svc_Woodstock_ONOntario Mobile Truck Svc Contact this company
Po Box 22107 Rpo Vansittart
Woodstock ON, N4S 8Y1

Phone #: 519-475-6666
Fax #: 519-475-6999

Key contact: Richard Wilson



Approximately 15 employees work at this location
Sales: $500,000 - $1 Million

Products and Services Description
Truck-repairing & Service
General Automotive Repair Shops

Also, Pawntario info from same site:

Pawntario Contact this company
393 Dundas St
Woodstock ON, N4S 1B6

Phone #: 519-539-1777

Key contact: Ricahrd Wilson



Approximately three employees work at this location
Sales: $1 - $500,000

Products and Services Description
Used Merchandise Stores

I don't know if this is the same individual.

This may be completely irrelevant. However, knowing that things are stolen to finance drug use, and some players in this story have been charged with theft/involved in drug circles, it is within the realm of possibility that people know people.

[doctor_J]

Since I first noticed this case, I was impressed with Tori's appearance. She looked so much older and more intelligent than a 9 year old. It wasn't because she dressed older or wore inappropriate makeup or anything. I think it was just a sparkle in her eyes and that little "bobbed" haircut. She looked so outgoing and approachable but also seemed to be hiding some secret pain, the way kids often do. I know it's probably just because I knew too much about her life at home but it was apparent even at the start of this horror. This child seemed to have "dark knowledge" of the fallibility of adults. And she was so strikingly beautiful! She was going to be a knock-out. I wonder if these scum-bags stalked her and counted on her extroverted and trusting personality or if they just counted on her recognizing TLM.

So much we'll probably never know.

Maybe after these perverts are found gulity and they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by showing remorse, they'll fess up and give up the location of her remains. I know that little trusting town of Woodstock (even the name brings memories of peace and love) will never be the same. People will be invoking Tori's name to warn their children for decades.

We know about TLM's sorry excuse for parents but I wonder if Rafferty has any family support? I hope not. I hope he never sees another smiling face. I wish the coward was facing lethal injection and could dread that every night for the next 20 years. The best thing about the DP is that they have many execution dates set and get last minute reprieves. It's the closest thing you can get to legal torture. These people deserve it. I would hope that Stafford's brother could get to Rafferty but that would just bring more horror to the Stafford family by sending a brother to prison. I wonder if the system would give him a break due to extreme provocation?

Just thinking of Tori and rambling.:blushing:

[north-eh]

Good morning everyone, nice to see you. :seeya:
It appears the search is still on for Tori's remains.

After three months police still searching for Tori
http://woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1648723

Three months have passed since Victoria "Tori" Stafford disappeared from a quiet city street, but police have not slowed in their search for her remains.

While family and friends continue to mourn the eight-year-old -- she would have turned nine next week -- the OPP's emergency response team continues to scour the woodlands and fields in the Fergus area. Despite the massive search area -- Wellington County is almost 2,700 square kilometres -- these officers are still intent on finding Tori, police spokesperson Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland said Wednesday.

"We've certainly not scaled down the investigation,' Maitland said. "The investigation is still a top priority."

Other officers in this joint OPP-Oxford Community Police Service investigation continue to search the region for physical evidence while following up on the almost 5,300 tips received from the public.

"The investigators are still working as diligently as they can, as is the support staff," Maitland said. "Everything is where it was."

As investigators continue to search, the two people accused of the little girl's kidnapping and murder -- 28-year-old Michael Rafferty and 19-year-old Terri-Lynne McClintic -- are being held at the Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre while awaiting trial. Both have made a handful of court appearances since their May 19 arrests for Tori's murder but their lawyers don't expect the actual trial until some time in 2010.

The eight-year-old girl was last seen on April 8 walking north along Fyfe Avenue with a dark-haired young woman shortly after leaving Oliver Stephens Public School at 3:30 p.m. Rafferty's next court appearance is scheduled for July 17 while McClintic is next set to appear on August 12. :sad:

N

[Gugug]

Interesting, it is all linked IMO. Just to get the local picture/ urban layout: the Methadone Clinic and Pawnontario are almost next door, just steps apart. And across from there is the little park mentioned in The Star a while ago:

Quote:
[In Woodstock, it is extremely easy to buy the little pills on the street.

"Give me $20 and two minutes and I will get you (OxyContin) in minutes," said factory worker Chris Gibbons, sitting in a tiny park opposite the methadone clinic on Dundas St. "Yes, it is that easy."

Christina Morrison, a 32-year-old former drug user and a convicted OxyContin dealer, may be exaggerating when she says almost 40 per cent of the town is hooked on the drug, but she remembers there were always at least 10 clients crammed into her downtown Woodstock apartment at any time when she was trafficking.

"And there was always a lineup outside. Always," she said grimly. ]

RW also appears to own a vehicle repair service.

[Gugug]

Yes, here is the address of the methadone clinic: http://www.supportnet.ca/11-461/05-wmph/461-5.html

[north-eh]

'All in memory of Victoria'
http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1650807

He's a father who wants to make the world a better place for children.

Rodney Stafford plans to bike 3,453 kilometres across Canada to raise money for Child Find Ontario.

"It's all in memory of Victoria," said Stafford.

The "Kilometres for Kids" fundraiser will kick off Aug. 1 with an event at the Oxford Auditorium. The next day, Stafford will set out for Edmonton on his bike.

"I've got it slated so that there will be eight stops along the way to Edmonton," he said.

The stops will be fundraising events for Child Find Ontario. Tori's aunt Rebecca Stafford is organizing one in Edmonton and several families are working on fundraisers in Barrie and Sudbury, he said.

Stafford is looking for local sponsors to pledge 1-cent or 10-cents a kilometre in exchange for company names and logos on "Kilometres for Kids" T-shirts. He's also hoping someone will donate a bike that's capable of a cross-Canada trek.

Stafford aims to reach Edmonton by Sept. 2. After arriving, he plans to release a purple balloon from a mountain in Jasper that Tori visited on a trip with her aunt Rebecca.

"It was probably one of the highest places she ever was, and if it's true she has passed, I want to be as close as I can to release the balloon," said Stafford.

Go Rodney!!! :thumbup:
N

[Gugug]

It sounds very much like Rodney Stafford is going to make a difference. His memorial to Tori is not made of stone, but of service to others.

[n/t]

I am so pleased to know Rodney is getting involved. I wonder if he'll come through my province. I'd love to meet him and offer my support. I'll even offer a place to stay if he needs one. I'll get in contact with his mom.

Go Rodney! Tori will never be forgotten :rose:

[Gugug]

We know that Pawntario is located a few doors down from a methadone clinic on Dundas. I decided to see if there was a nearby pizza place. What do you know: Let's Eat Pizza is also on the same street, a few doors away.

Remember that MR and TLM apparently met in a pizza restaurant? Remember that TLM apparently attended the same methadone clinic as TM?

Pizza: 444 Dundas St.
Pawntario: 451 Dundas St.
Methadone Clinic: 461 Dundas St.

Is this a coincidence?

[Gugug]

Good Time Charlies, a place where TM apparently went during the search for Tori, is at 434 Dundas.

Here's a wiki link with photos of the area:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodstock,_Ontario

I'm not sure where this is going, but once again I hope that investigators have made us of Dr. Kim Rossmo's method of geographic profiling.

[Gugug]

I was reading articles about the Bandidos trial, and saw that investigators found evidence of what they believe to be hydrochloric acid in the barn at WK's farm.

This acid is used in landscaping, to etch concrete. I'll say no more.

[Gugug]

Here's a bit of information that I hadn't seen before:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Murder+charge+laid+girl+abduction/1612290/story.html

It says that MR's mother worked at Saint-Gobain Abrasives, a sandpaper factory in Plattsville, Ont. So, we could add that location to the places with which MR is familiar.

[Gugug]

What do you know: the scout camp which had stolen equipment is in Blandford-Blenheim. So is Plattsville:

http://www.twp.bla-ble.on.ca/

[Gugug]

I don't believe that a bad parent is better than no parent:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=BmAOu9LNnY8C&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=drug+debts+%2B+sale+of+child&source=bl&ots=oqV0fifDAd&sig=tAbk3QL9XjsCdUnqs0fMAjhMOjg&hl=en&ei=JEVZSpv4A5CKsgPn3fiqDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7

[jljayne]

<snip>

He's a father who wants to make the world a better place for children.

Rodney Stafford plans to bike 3,453 kilometres across Canada to raise money for Child Find Ontario.

"It's all in memory of Victoria," said Stafford.

The "Kilometres for Kids" fundraiser will kick off Aug. 1 with an event at the Oxford Auditorium. The next day, Stafford will set out for Edmonton on his bike.

<snip>

Stafford aims to reach Edmonton by Sept. 2. After arriving, he plans to release a purple balloon from a mountain in Jasper that Tori visited on a trip with her aunt Rebecca.

"It was probably one of the highest places she ever was, and if it's true she has passed, I want to be as close as I can to release the balloon," said Stafford.

Go Rodney!!! :thumbup:
N

Wow, what a beautiful and heart-rending sight it will be to see that purple balloon rise into the heavens. I won't be there, but I would like to donate. Anyone know a mailing address for non-Canadian residents to donate to?

[Gugug]

ITA, Gugug, the children`s remarks on parental unavailability and unpredictability are saddening. It creates a burden way too heavy for childhood. Maybe that`s what you saw beyond Tori`s beauty in your description above, Doctor_J.

Here I am remembering a little girl who once told me that she had three dads. She didn't like the second one, because they had to leave in the middle of supper when the police were after them, and she had to leave her swing set behind. You know, that kind of thing...

Not to mention what the book excerpt says about being exposed to other predatory drug users.

[Gugug]

Where you find illegal drugs, organized crime is not far away:

http://www.nicaso.com/pages/doc_page168.html

I imagine things are not much different when it comes to illegal use of prescription drugs.

[jljayne]

Please light a candle for Tori. Your own personal candlelight vigil.

[doctor_J]

ITA, Gugug, the children`s remarks on parental unavailability and unpredictability are saddening. It creates a burden way too heavy for childhood. Maybe that`s what you saw beyond Tori`s beauty in your description above, Doctor_J.

I absolutely believe so ThinkTank. I do not believe for a minute that her homelife with two adult addicts was anything close to idylic. I believe she had already lost more innocence than a child ever should at that age. It still angers me that Tara would claim that drugs had no effect on her parenting. It that were true, she would be the first and belongs in the Guinness Book of World Records. :sneaky:

It is yet to be seen but I also think that her mother and step-father's world of drugs, and whatever crimes were required to support that habit, exposed this precious child to a predator with a grudge to settle. It strains the imagination to believe she was a random victim, when there were so many connections between her guardians and her killer. :thumbdown:

[north-eh]

Good day everyone. I hope everyone is enjoying their summer and praying Victoria will be recovered so the family can have some closure.
Here is the latest that I found.
Tori Stafford's family plans quiet birthday remembrance
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/665628

Tomorrow would have been Tori's birthday
http://thespec.com/News/CanadaWorld/article/599490

Stafford family mourns daughter on ninth birthday
http://www.570news.com/news/local/more.jsp?content=20090714_061045_4420

As far as I know Rodney Stafford would like all donations to go to Childfind Ontario for those who were asking.
Thank you. :smile:
N

[Gugug]

He sounds like the right person for the job:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1655221

His experience will be useful during this investigation.

On another note, the Bandidos mystery witness is set to testify today in London:

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/07/14/10122821-sun.html

[jljayne]

I won't be there, but I would like to donate. Anyone know a mailing address for non-Canadian residents to donate to?

It's probably on Tori's poster or web site. Does anyone know the URLs to her poster and/or web site? (Yes, I know this has probably been posted before by many folks, but with so many threads on this forum, it's going to be hard to find.)

[north-eh]

It's probably on Tori's poster or web site. Does anyone know the URLs to her poster and/or web site? (Yes, I know this has probably been posted before by many folks, but with so many threads on this forum, it's going to be hard to find.)

Hi jljayne here is the link to a Facebook page which is just one of the groups for Victoria.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=101248670810#/group.php?gid=125958323764

In case you couldn't get in this is what is posted on the front page:

Rodney's Kilometres for kids
TD Canada Trust
Branch 2934 (Nelson Plaza London)
Acct- 5208420

* ask for reciept
- the depositors only method to keep track of any deposit, if there are any losses of funds reciept wil have acct info on it.
- On the reciept it should have "Rods Km"

*Please try to make group or family deposit's.
All donation's are welcome!

Now we all can help!
Thank you, Ang

To let everyone know Rodney Stafford and Child Find are setting up a different account called "Kilometer's for kids"
This account is for donating directly to Child Find.


I hope this helps if not I will see what else I can do.
N

[Gugug]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/07/14/10127536.html

This is almost the same article as above but goes into a bit more detail about the star witness MH. The mystery witness.

Updates are on Twitter, I see. It's interesting that one of the Winnipeg chapter members lived in Calgary.

[jljayne]

Hi jljayne here is the link to a Facebook page which is just one of the groups for Victoria.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=101248670810#/group.php?gid=125958323764

In case you couldn't get in this is what is posted on the front page:

Rodney's Kilometres for kids
TD Canada Trust
Branch 2934 (Nelson Plaza London)
Acct- 5208420

* ask for reciept
- the depositors only method to keep track of any deposit, if there are any losses of funds reciept wil have acct info on it.
- On the reciept it should have "Rods Km"

*Please try to make group or family deposit's.
All donation's are welcome!

Now we all can help!
Thank you, Ang

To let everyone know Rodney Stafford and Child Find are setting up a different account called "Kilometer's for kids"
This account is for donating directly to Child Find.


I hope this helps if not I will see what else I can do.
N

Wow, thanks, North!

[Lovethechild]

Just checking in to see if Little Tori has been found....:crying:

I'm still not 100% convinced she's dead. Just a feeling.....

[debbadoo]

Tomorrow would have been Victoria's 9th birthday. This baby girl should be home getting ready for a big birthday party with her little friends from school.....:crying:

[n/t]

Special thoughts of you today Victoria. Happy Birthday.:rose:

[jljayne]

<snip>

Rodney's Kilometres for kids
TD Canada Trust
Branch 2934 (Nelson Plaza London)
Acct- XXXXXXX

<snip>

I am outside Canada and wish to send a donation by mail. Do I just add "Canada" at the bottom of this address? Or do I need to add more?

Also. should I leave off the account name to prevent identity theft?

Thanks, North!

[beemeup]

I am outside Canada and wish to send a donation by mail. Do I just add "Canada" at the bottom of this address? Or do I need to add more?

Also. should I leave off the account name to prevent identity theft?

Thanks, North!

Not sure bout the account name. I would put London Ontario Canada. That really nice :thumbup:

[Hope4Tori]

This link was posted in the links only section as well.

http://www.oxfordreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1657049

Thinking of Tori today on what should have been her 9th birthday!:wub::wub::wub:

[north-eh]

I am outside Canada and wish to send a donation by mail. Do I just add "Canada" at the bottom of this address? Or do I need to add more?

Also. should I leave off the account name to prevent identity theft?

Thanks, North!

Hi jljayne. I apologize for not getting back to you sooner but I did have a reply to you and then I had to reboot my laptop, got busy and then came back.
I wouldn't put the account number or the name of the account on the outside of the envelope. Include this separately on the inside but add Canada as well as the City to which it is going.
Unfortunately this cannot quarantee it will arrive safely but knowing that you wanted to help is wonderful. Good luck. :smile:

Happy 9th Birthday Victoria! God Bless you.
N

[north-eh]

Tori's birthday heightens grief

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/07/15/10137726-sun.html

:sad: N

[bkqueen]

Jjayne:
I looked up the address of that branch and it is:
TD Canada Trust
155 Clarke Road
London, ON
N5W 5C9

So I would add CANADA underneat the N5W 5C9(our version of a 'zip code', postal code in canada)

Then inside just add a note about the account name/number.

[jljayne]

Jjayne:
I looked up the address of that branch and it is:
TD Canada Trust
155 Clarke Road
London, ON
N5W 5C9

So I would add CANADA underneat the N5W 5C9(our version of a 'zip code', postal code in canada)

Then inside just add a note about the account name/number.

Thanks, BkQueen!

[north-eh]

Tori Stafford suspect expected to plead not guilty

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/07/17/10167571.html

The 28-year-old man charged with killing Tori Stafford has a new lawyer who's suggesting his client will plead not guilty when or if the case goes to trial.

Michael Rafferty had a court appearance in Woodstock, this morning where he appeared briefly via video link from the Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre in London.

It was announced at that time that his previous lawyer, Hal Mattson, would no longer be representing him. His case is now being handled by Scott Reid of Derstine-Penman Criminal Lawyers, based out of Toronto.

"This is a considerable process that is just beginning now. Throughout that process Mr. Rafferty, just like every person charged with a criminal offence in this country, is presumed to be innocent." said Rafferty's new lawyer.

It is our intention to vigorously defend this case and to challenge the allegations made against Mr. Rafferty. I would urge people not to rush to judgement or jump to any conclusions. The facts will come out at trial."


When asked if that meant Rafferty would plead not guilty, Mr.Reid said "I don't have any comment on that, but I think at this point, that's a safe assumption."

No reason was given for Rafferty's decision to change lawyers.

His case has been put over until August 21st, 2009.

For the latest local coverage, read The London Free Press on the web or in print
N

[Gugug]

Tori Stafford suspect expected to plead not guilty

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/07/17/10167571.html

The 28-year-old man charged with killing Tori Stafford has a new lawyer who's suggesting his client will plead not guilty when or if the case goes to trial.

Michael Rafferty had a court appearance in Woodstock, this morning where he appeared briefly via video link from the Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre in London.

It was announced at that time that his previous lawyer, Hal Mattson, would no longer be representing him. His case is now being handled by Scott Reid of Derstine-Penman Criminal Lawyers, based out of Toronto.

"This is a considerable process that is just beginning now. Throughout that process Mr. Rafferty, just like every person charged with a criminal offence in this country, is presumed to be innocent." said Rafferty's new lawyer.

It is our intention to vigorously defend this case and to challenge the allegations made against Mr. Rafferty. I would urge people not to rush to judgement or jump to any conclusions. The facts will come out at trial."


When asked if that meant Rafferty would plead not guilty, Mr.Reid said "I don't have any comment on that, but I think at this point, that's a safe assumption."

No reason was given for Rafferty's decision to change lawyers.

His case has been put over until August 21st, 2009.

For the latest local coverage, read The London Free Press on the web or in print
N

This can mean two things: his lawyer withdrew from the case, or MR decided to get a new lawyer. If MR decided to get a new lawyer, it could mean that he didn't like his lawyer's advice (perhaps a suggestion to plead guilty due to the overwhelming amount of evidence against him, for example), or this is a way to stall. If it is the latter, it is not unheard of for an accused person to go through a series of lawyers in a vain attempt to stall (some have even argued that the case should be thrown out because of delays, caused by themselves). In such cases, the judge eventually will get fed up and tell the accused that the case is going ahead, lawyer or not. People who are receiving legal aid really don't have the luxury of lawyer shopping.

If the lawyer was the one who withdrew from the case, there could be many reasons, including referring the case to a larger firm with greater resources to handle its complexity, or an inability to work with the client (who may not be listening to the lawyer's advice, etc.)

There's still the psychiatric evaluation to come once MR enters his plea.

[north-eh]

This can mean two things: his lawyer withdrew from the case, or MR decided to get a new lawyer. If MR decided to get a new lawyer, it could mean that he didn't like his lawyer's advice (perhaps a suggestion to plead guilty due to the overwhelming amount of evidence against him, for example), or this is a way to stall. If it is the latter, it is not unheard of for an accused person to go through a series of lawyers in a vain attempt to stall (some have even argued that the case should be thrown out because of delays, caused by themselves). In such cases, the judge eventually will get fed up and tell the accused that the case is going ahead, lawyer or not. People who are receiving legal aid really don't have the luxury of lawyer shopping.

If the lawyer was the one who withdrew from the case, there could be many reasons, including referring the case to a larger firm with greater resources to handle its complexity, or an inability to work with the client (who may not be listening to the lawyer's advice, etc.)

There's still the psychiatric evaluation to come once MR enters his plea.

:smile: I agree with your post Gugug but delays are certainly welcomed by any defense as we are aware and much to our dismay.

Here is the latest news I have on the bicycle ride that Rodney is doing.
It does sound exciting and Rodney must be pumped. :thumbsup:
Throwing support behind Stafford
http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1661141
N

[n/t]

http://derstinepenman.com/

Sounds like MR`s new lawyer SR is "part pitbull" with recent success in getting a few drug-related criminals cleared. After reading this, I bet MR asked for a stronger defendant. Not sure if the SR on Facebook is the same, no offense intended.You never know what texture lawyers are made of, but he sure looks like he could join forces with MR.... I hope Rodney keeps up his positive spirit and actions. I am starting to have doubts that proper justice for Tori will ever full be achieved.

I'm hoping LE has the evidence they need to convict him. Remember his then girlfriend probably ratted on him and that's what got him arrested. He was there, he did the deed. The jury will see MR for the monster he really is. I have no doubt.

Needless to say, he's better off in jail. God only knows what awaits him if he's acquitted. :sneaky:

[moonlite]

Tori's birthday heightens grief

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/07/15/10137726-sun.html

:sad: N

Greetings'
North-eh"

I have a question? Why is the reporter now saying presumed dead? I thought the police know Tori has passed away? I'm wondering if this was just a mistake by the reporter?

I'm still hoping Tori will be found!!

Moonlite

[Lollilock]

Does anyone know if it's true that Rafferty dropped Mattson because Mattson was not around enough for him?

[doctor_J]

Does anyone know if it's true that Rafferty dropped Mattson because Mattson was not around enough for him?

I haven't heard anything about this but I'd like to know what you've heard and where did you hear or read it? If you're local you'd probably have more info than me. TIA.

[doctor_J]

Greetings'
North-eh"

I have a question? Why is the reporter now saying presumed dead? I thought the police know Tori has passed away? I'm wondering if this was just a mistake by the reporter?

I'm still hoping Tori will be found!!

Moonlite

I surely hope they have more than TLM's word to base their assumption on. It must be absolute he77 on earth for Tori's loved ones if that is all the evidence they've been given.

[moonlite]

I surely hope they have more than TLM's word to base their assumption on. It must be absolute he77 on earth for Tori's loved ones if that is all the evidence they've been given.

Greetings"
Doctor_J'


I really hope so too!! I guess we will have to wait and see!! I mean until the trail with evidence etc. But it does kind of sound like MR, might go for the not guilty plea with his new attorney. I'm just wondering if this new attorney took the case because it's a high profile case? I mean it could help make an attorney's career!! I'm wondering if MR does plead not guilty if this new attorney will get him off?
Gads' all I can say' I sure hope the police have the right people being charged.

I just wish Lil Tori could be found!!

Moonlite

[north-eh]

Good evening fine friends. :seeya:
As far as the crown's evidence that Victoria has been murdered has always been a question for me too. I would hope they have something significant in order to tell the parents that she is passed, I can't for the life of me understand why they would say something like that if in fact there is a possibility that she is not.
Perhaps it was just the wording on the reporter's part rather than state that the two accused murdered her. Sometimes they go easy on our accused IMO and don't want to ruffle any feathers so to speak.


Local firms donate bike to Tori's dad :thumbsup:
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/07/18/10176776-sun.html
N

[Lollilock]

I haven't heard anything about this but I'd like to know what you've heard and where did you hear or read it? If you're local you'd probably have more info than me. TIA.

I have been told that Mattson wasn't doing enough for Rafferty including being there to answer his questions and help him with his "treatment" in prison.

I think that if Mattson seen the opportunity with this high profile case, he would have "been there" for Rafferty. So, knowing the evidence, he has chosen not to expend his valuable time to Rafferty.

Or

Mattson has removed himself from the case due to things revealed to him, in order for his former client to have half a shot at a good outcome at trial (if this case makes it that far).

I was putting the question out there, to see if anyone else had heard anything. My information comes from someone close to the family. But I think they are a little disillusioned by the whole thing, so I am always skeptical.

[moonlite]

Good evening fine friends. :seeya:
As far as the crown's evidence that Victoria has been murdered has always been a question for me too. I would hope they have something significant in order to tell the parents that she is passed, I can't for the life of me understand why they would say something like that if in fact there is a possibility that she is not.
Perhaps it was just the wording on the reporter's part rather than state that the two accused murdered her. Sometimes they go easy on our accused IMO and don't want to ruffle any feathers so to speak.


Local firms donate bike to Tori's dad :thumbsup:
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/07/18/10176776-sun.html
N

Greetings'
North-eh"

Thanks for your input!! I'm so not trying to ruffle anyone's feather's either by asking about the "assumption part". I'm just a very confused person who really wants Lil Tori found. I think if there is any type of hope that Tori is alive would be a Godsend at this point. I just don't understand why up until this point the reporters all said Tori has passed away. Then this reporter just assumes she might be passed away.
I know not all reporter's don't always get things right!! But dang' someone should tell that reporter to really clarify what they are saying.IMO

I think it's a very good thing what Tori's father is doing with child find. Yes' I will donate too!! I think it will truly help other children in the future.IMO

Moonlite

[moonlite]

I have been told that Mattson wasn't doing enough for Rafferty including being there to answer his questions and help him with his "treatment" in prison.

I think that if Mattson seen the opportunity with this high profile case, he would have "been there" for Rafferty. So, knowing the evidence, he has chosen not to expend his valuable time to Rafferty.

Or

Mattson has removed himself from the case due to things revealed to him, in order for his former client to have half a shot at a good outcome at trial (if this case makes it that far).

I was putting the question out there, to see if anyone else had heard anything. My information comes from someone close to the family. But I think they are a little disillusioned by the whole thing, so I am always skeptical.

Greetings"
Lollilock"

Thanks for your input!! Do you think MR will be convicted? What about Lil Tori ever being found? I think the police have really tried in this case to find her. But what just blows mind my MR has not confessed and her body has not been recovered.

Yes' I know their are perp's out there that do murder' etc. But in my experience it's the perp's that are serial in killing that really forget what exactly happened to a person.IMO

I could be very wrong' but MR does not strike me as a serial killer. Now this is just my opinion' MR is a way drama queen!! I have said that from the start too!!
To be very honest at this point I'm way not sure if the police have arrested the right people? I'm confused and think there is much more to Lil Tori's story to be told.IMO

Moonlite

[Lollilock]

Greetings"
Lollilock"

Thanks for your input!! Do you think MR will be convicted? What about Lil Tori ever being found? I think the police have really tried in this case to find her. But what just blows mind my MR has not confessed and her body has not been recovered.

Yes' I know their are perp's out there that do murder' etc. But in my experience it's the perp's that are serial in killing that really forget what exactly happened to a person.IMO

I could be very wrong' but MR does not strike me as a serial killer. Now this is just my opinion' MR is a way drama queen!! I have said that from the start too!!
To be very honest at this point I'm way not sure if the police have arrested the right people? I'm confused and think there is much more to Lil Tori's story to be told.IMO

Moonlite


Moon:

I am not surprised MR has not confessed. He is self-absorbed, and is trying to convince everyone, including himself, that he has not done what he is accused of. He is scared, because he is immature, and he will not confess unless a "deal" is made with him. No deal will be given, until close to trial, IMO. I think LE or the public will find Tori's remains, before a deal would have to be made to give closure. I don't know if Tori will ever be completely put to rest.

There is evidence that MR involved himself in the crime investigation after the abduction. He did something extremely stupid with his phone. There is more evidence than just TLM's statement, of that you can be sure.

I don't know if we will be fully prepared for the details, really.

I pray they find that little girl soon, so her family can grieve in full. It is beyond comprehension, the sadness.

Oh, yeah, I don't think this is MR's first crime. Not by a long shot. There were a series of assaults on or near the campus in Guelph that have been unsolved, the perp not able to complete his act. I think there were other attempts on children, that MR and TLM were going through the motions, experimenting. I think there has been devious behaviour by MR prior to this, for sure.

[doctor_J]

I have totally missed any articles about Rafferty changing lawyers, or my brain is more feeble than I thought. Anyone want to help me out? All of you know I have been here from very Early following this case with you. I will go check the links thread.

I think Rodney's new efforts with Child Find will help him cope as much as anything. It has helped others like Mark Klaus and John Walsh. I do grieve for all her family, including Tara. Yes, I have had my criticisms of her, because I felt her honesty was critical, and I haven't seen that yet but noone deserves to lose a child like she has. The circumstances, the tape that will haunt, the not finding her remains, it's all from a true horror story.j

I wouldn't wish this nightmare on anyone and I wish all of us could change it. I hope Tara, her bf, Rodney, Tara's mother (Shirley?), can find some peace in their faith. That's about all I know to help in such times. I am not really a person of faith. It's the downside of being a scientist, I guess, but I wish I was. Anyway, I do try to pray for this family and I pray that ONLY God will have mercy on the perpertrators because I hope they find none in this life. I really don't see why such people are ever allowed back into society.

Sorry for the ramble, this case just tears me up inside.

[Lollilock]

That is interesting information, Lollilocks.
Is there more you can release about the phone and MR being involved in the crime investigation? Did he join the search teams incognito? And did he take pictures of the crime with his phone at a time, let`s say April 8th, that would have made investigators so sure Tori had passed?
It would match a theory I had all along.

Also, I believe there are new types of "serial killers". As much as we are used to seeing clones of MR with their roaring tinted Hondas in every small town that could well be our best friend`s innocent kids, let`s not forget that there is a whole new culture involved: first, drugs like OxyContin seem to foster the desire for more and more thrill in the sexual department, second, there is a whole online world of home-made video clips exposing deviation and cruelty in its extremes, possibly for money, possibly "just" to raise one`s status in a group of low-lives. This kind of network of drugs and media might quite well produce serial killers looking for new thrills over and over, without respect for others` lives, like little 8-year-old lives that were full of opportunities and dreams.

Interesting what you say about MR`s personality. Immature, yes. With the self-centered mind of a 3-year-old who hurts the family pet but also gets his mom to see only the best in him with a smirky smile, stomps his little feet claiming to be innocent, with the dead pet right there. There is always one child like this per neighbourhood, even at that age. And suddenly they are 28 and have not learned. Just keep stomping your feet and sing la-la-la-la until the evidence goes away, right? I also believe there is more criminal past to him than we know. Not sure if I remember correctly, but having a son he is not allowed (?) to see and a former girlfriend mentioning she would never let him get close to her child really makes you wonder what happened prior to April 8th.

Ontario has the wonderful Early Childhood Education Centres, stressing how important the first 6 years of a child`s life are to form their social integration. It should become mandatory for new parents to join these centres because obviously things are getting out of hand in society. Respect, compassion - it doesn`t take much to keep a child on the right track. But now these worped kids have their own kids already and human robots wil take over. Sorry, off-topic.

Interesting commentary, ThinkTank. Stomp your feet and sing lalalala. That's the way I see it.

I may have mispoke there regarding him involving himself in the "investigation". I certainly believe that he was making posts on the VS Youtube videos, under the handle wmichel80. If you haven't seen those, you won't now, as they are all deleted from Google including cache. I haven't been able to defintitively prove it, but suspect that it was him. He sent Tara a package, after the abduction.

He took his cell phone in to be serviced. That is where LE seized it.

There is evidence Tori's remains have been moved, but I don't know if it is due to animals or Rafferty. I strongly suspect Rafferty moved her. He was very vague to his friends and new girlfriend, regarding the explanation for the "seat" being gone. It is really only the bottom part of the bench missing, along with the trunk carpet, so that makes it even more suspicious, IMO. Apparantly he had blankets and bags and stuff covering the missing bench, his new girlfriend didn't even notice it missing. His best friend did, though, but accepted his vagueness without any question.

There is definitive digital evidence Tori has passed. I trust my source on this. I know you guys don't know me from Adam, so take that for what you will. A judge does not allow warrants based on the word of a known criminal alone. LE has said she has passed, though they don't have a crime scene or a body. They would not just say that based on TLM's word, of that I have confidence. There are so many, many things not released. It is amazing with the number of people involved, that there has not been more leaked out. LE is doing an amazing job. I realize people think that maybe the wrong people are arrested. It's possible. But I don't think so.

[Lollilock]

Thanks for this. Just a quick note: I do remember someone posting the link to the wmichel comments on here a long time ago. I managed to read some and then it was gone. Just from those couple of lines, I felt he was the real MR, writing in some confused and maybe drugged out state of mind but with a semi-clear message to someone that until June 1st there was still time to change things around. I had no clue what it was about but it felt like a desperate act of communication without dropping facts or names.

Yes, you have reminded me of the June 1st thing, which of course is a large coincidence to being the day before TLM turns 19. Maybe he thought she would still be tried as a juvie until 19, or he thought she was turning 18.

[kelloggirl]

I am not surprised MR has not confessed. He is self-absorbed, and is trying to convince everyone, including himself, that he has not done what he is accused of. He is scared, because he is immature, and he will not confess unless a "deal" is made with him. No deal will be given, until close to trial, IMO. I think LE or the public will find Tori's remains, before a deal would have to be made to give closure. I don't know if Tori will ever be completely put to rest.

There is evidence that MR involved himself in the crime investigation after the abduction. He did something extremely stupid with his phone. There is more evidence than just TLM's statement, of that you can be sure.

I don't know if we will be fully prepared for the details, really.

I pray they find that little girl soon, so her family can grieve in full. It is beyond comprehension, the sadness.

Oh, yeah, I don't think this is MR's first crime. Not by a long shot. There were a series of assaults on or near the campus in Guelph that have been unsolved, the perp not able to complete his act. I think there were other attempts on children, that MR and TLM were going through the motions, experimenting. I think there has been devious behaviour by MR prior to this, for sure.

Thank you for your information, Lollilock. After the arrests, some of us on the board were leaning towards TLM being the mastermind/driver of this crime. She seemed cold and composed and just the more violent type based on her MySpace. MR seemed more immature or impulsive, but maybe he is one of those who can cry and show seeming remorse while hiding his true nature well. Do you have a sense of whether one or the other, or both are culpable? Whose idea does it seem like it was based on what you know?

Thanks in advance for any insights.

[Lollilock]

Thank you for your information, Lollilock. After the arrests, some of us on the board were leaning towards TLM being the mastermind/driver of this crime. She seemed cold and composed and just the more violent type based on her MySpace. MR seemed more immature or impulsive, but maybe he is one of those who can cry and show seeming remorse while hiding his true nature well. Do you have a sense of whether one or the other, or both are culpable? Whose idea does it seem like it was based on what you know?

Thanks in advance for any insights.


Of course, TLM's online presence indicated a predisposition to a violent nature. The bandana pic is definately creepy. Her violent criminal history (stabbing a girl at age 14), her horrible upbringing and past, definitely give some insight as to where she is coming from.

There are several different known and speculative online presences for Rafferty. A few of them being his Michael Rafferty MSN (including all those Skydrive pics), his Hi5 Account, his Mychol1980 Myspace, his Facebook (something good is comming my way), his POF, Praize, Guelph Dating. Then there are the speculative online handles including wmichel1980, mychol80, Quazycity. There are links to an escort based out of London, ON. There are postings on an online porn chat site. All of these things (except maybe his Hi5) are wiped. Not a trace.

There are likely many, many more online personalities, as his own BF admitted that he would not have likely used his own name for devious purposes. I think there is more to the Russian/Ukeraine sexual deviance angle, than has been delved into. I think he may have been exploring his own sexuality, as his BF and her husband thought his behaviour might indicate he was a supressed gay, as did his former friend. There was some indication of exploring transgender issues online, but I am not certain if it was him. His 8 year old son by a stripper, has had no contact with him. Apparently, it was a brief encounter, resulting in her pregnancy, and they are not 100% sure it is his, but he has not raised him.

I think the 2 of these people together indulged in evil, heinous thoughts, and then acts, that were not restricted by a conscience. I don't think either TLM or MR has one. They schemed and planned and came up with a crime to satisfy both of their sick needs. I think they were experimenting in evil thoughts and behaviour, even in his own driveway, thereby scaring the daylights out of the neighbour child that recognized TLM in the sketch right away as "the guy" that scared him.

I guess the question is, what gave way to the chain of events leading to the sudden arrests? They already had her. Had her walk the walk, along with 5 others (including TM and presumably Sarah). LE suspected her, had the neighbours tips, the family's suspicions. I think Rafferty made his biggest mistake in going to TLM's house on the 15th, either to get drugs or info out of Carol, or to get "the evidence" (TLM's phone?) that she left at her house upon arrest. When he went there, it set the neighbours off, they finally had a plate, a name, something concrete to give LE about TLM's friend, and LE did their thing in hardlining TLM. Why she caved after all that time? People have suggested jealousy at him dating his new girlfriend (which he started dating on Easter Sunday, BTW). She probably thought she had nothing to lose, she has been in and out of jail anyway, she is so young etc., and damned if he is going to be out running around, while she is inside. But Rafferty did one smart thing - he moved little Tori.

[doctor_J]

I was totally convinced that the wmichel and michol 1980 postings and the porn chat responses were actually Rafferty. I saved all of them and his known (?) writings on MS and the dating sites. I was able to find 3 words identically misspelled and thought the grammar (bad), sentence structure (incorrect) and syntac were the same. But I'm not an expert and I remember someone on this board disagreed with my posting on the subject. I still think it was him and his immaturity and excitement and anxiety over the crime compelled him to post comments on those sites. I think he thought it would point to his innocence. I don't think he's very smart but I do think he's much more manipulative and cunning than we originally thought. The evidence of that is his silence after his arrest and demands on his attorney.

I did have a friend of mine who is a linguistics associate professor look at the postings and she thought, just with a casual comparison, that it was probably the same writer. She did not do an in depth study however.

I did not know he sent a package to Tara. I would like to know more about that. Also I wonder what he returned to the TLM house to retrieve. I suspect he just needed his drugs. Addicts will take any risk to get their fix.

[kelloggirl]

Of course, TLM's online presence indicated a predisposition to a violent nature. The bandana pic is definately creepy. Her violent criminal history (stabbing a girl at age 14), her horrible upbringing and past, definitely give some insight as to where she is coming from.

There are several different known and speculative online presences for Rafferty. A few of them being his Michael Rafferty MSN (including all those Skydrive pics), his Hi5 Account, his Mychol1980 Myspace, his Facebook (something good is comming my way), his POF, Praize, Guelph Dating. Then there are the speculative online handles including wmichel1980, mychol80, Quazycity. There are links to an escort based out of London, ON. There are postings on an online porn chat site. All of these things (except maybe his Hi5) are wiped. Not a trace.

There are likely many, many more online personalities, as his own BF admitted that he would not have likely used his own name for devious purposes. I think there is more to the Russian/Ukeraine sexual deviance angle, than has been delved into. I think he may have been exploring his own sexuality, as his BF and her husband thought his behaviour might indicate he was a supressed gay, as did his former friend. There was some indication of exploring transgender issues online, but I am not certain if it was him. His 8 year old son by a stripper, has had no contact with him. Apparently, it was a brief encounter, resulting in her pregnancy, and they are not 100% sure it is his, but he has not raised him.

I think the 2 of these people together indulged in evil, heinous thoughts, and then acts, that were not restricted by a conscience. I don't think either TLM or MR has one. They schemed and planned and came up with a crime to satisfy both of their sick needs. I think they were experimenting in evil thoughts and behaviour, even in his own driveway, thereby scaring the daylights out of the neighbour child that recognized TLM in the sketch right away as "the guy" that scared him.

I guess the question is, what gave way to the chain of events leading to the sudden arrests? They already had her. Had her walk the walk, along with 5 others (including TM and presumably Sarah). LE suspected her, had the neighbours tips, the family's suspicions. I think Rafferty made his biggest mistake in going to TLM's house on the 15th, either to get drugs or info out of Carol, or to get "the evidence" (TLM's phone?) that she left at her house upon arrest. When he went there, it set the neighbours off, they finally had a plate, a name, something concrete to give LE about TLM's friend, and LE did their thing in hardlining TLM. Why she caved after all that time? People have suggested jealousy at him dating his new girlfriend (which he started dating on Easter Sunday, BTW). She probably thought she had nothing to lose, she has been in and out of jail anyway, she is so young etc., and damned if he is going to be out running around, while she is inside. But Rafferty did one smart thing - he moved little Tori.

Thanks for your insights, Lollilock. We will probably never know the exact circumstances because they will likely turn on each other and try to lie their way out of it. Clearly, they are both very sick and depraved people. My heart breaks thinking about what poor little Tori might've been subjected to.

[doctor_J]

How much info are we going to get from the trial? No cameras in courtroom right? Are reporters allowed to report everything presented in court and is a courtroom sketch artist allowed?

[Gugug]

That is interesting information, Lollilocks.
Is there more you can release about the phone and MR being involved in the crime investigation? Did he join the search teams incognito? And did he take pictures of the crime with his phone at a time, let`s say April 8th, that would have made investigators so sure Tori had passed?
It would match a theory I had all along.

Also, I believe there are new types of "serial killers". As much as we are used to seeing clones of MR with their roaring tinted Hondas in every small town that could well be our best friend`s innocent kids, let`s not forget that there is a whole new culture involved: first, drugs like OxyContin seem to foster the desire for more and more thrill in the sexual department, second, there is a whole online world of home-made video clips exposing deviation and cruelty in its extremes, possibly for money, possibly "just" to raise one`s status in a group of low-lives. This kind of network of drugs and media might quite well produce serial killers looking for new thrills over and over, without respect for others` lives, like little 8-year-old lives that were full of opportunities and dreams.

Interesting what you say about MR`s personality. Immature, yes. With the self-centered mind of a 3-year-old who hurts the family pet but also gets his mom to see only the best in him with a smirky smile, stomps his little feet claiming to be innocent, with the dead pet right there. There is always one child like this per neighbourhood, even at that age. And suddenly they are 28 and have not learned. Just keep stomping your feet and sing la-la-la-la until the evidence goes away, right? I also believe there is more criminal past to him than we know. Not sure if I remember correctly, but having a son he is not allowed (?) to see and a former girlfriend mentioning she would never let him get close to her child really makes you wonder what happened prior to April 8th.

Ontario has the wonderful Early Childhood Education Centres, stressing how important the first 6 years of a child`s life are to form their social integration. It should become mandatory for new parents to join these centres because obviously things are getting out of hand in society. Respect, compassion - it doesn`t take much to keep a child on the right track. But now these worped kids have their own kids already and human robots wil take over. Sorry, off-topic.

Here is the campaign that our own Mr. Dressup (RIP) did a PSA for:

http://www.beststart.org/events/detail/bsannualconf08/presentations/PC4_2_Parenting_Part_ho.pdf

"The years before five last the rest of their lives," is the motto. I believe it.

[n/t]

How much info are we going to get from the trial? No cameras in courtroom right? Are reporters allowed to report everything presented in court and is a courtroom sketch artist allowed?

No cameras in the courtroom. As far as evidence, whatever is presented in the courtroom will be reported by media. Sketches are allowed but I think it all depends on the judge. I know they did in the Homolka/Bernardo trial.

[Hope4Tori]

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090720/090720_remains_found/20090720/?hub=CP24Home

"Suspicious remains have been found in a rural area near Mount Forest, Ont. west of Orangeville on Sunday morning.

Police are at the scene off Concession 6, south of Highway 89 between Mount Forest and Teviotdale. Police also say they have sealed off the area for their investigation.

The remains were found as a team of officers involved with the search for Tori Stafford probed a new area that they had not searched before, about 15 minutes north of areas they had already scoured.

Police say they had been following up on tips and were looking for "landmarks" when they found "a spot."

OPP Sgt. Dave Rektor says police can't confirm the remains are that of Stafford's, but investigators involved with her case are following up on the most recent development."

[Jester]

Were the remains found near Guelph of an 8-ish year old girl those of Tori Stafford?

Who found those bones, and where exactly were they found?

New is, bones of an 8 year old child were found near Guelph and the question is whether they are the remains of Tori Stafford.

[streeter]

Jester, where did you read/hear that the remains were that of an 8ish-year-old? Any reports I've heard have all just said human remains, with no reference to age.

[n/t]

I have a feeling Tori is finally found. :rose:

I'm so emotional. I'm happy she's found but yet so sad that this day has finally arrived.

Tori :rose:

[ellegna]

I have a feeling Tori is finally found. :rose:

I'm so emotional. I'm happy she's found but yet so sad that this day has finally arrived.

Tori :rose:

I share your feelings n/t. It is a bitter sweet day if those remains are hers.

:rose: for Tori

[n/t]

Any updates from our wonderful posters for those of us at work is greatly appreciated. :crying:

[n/t]

I wonder who owns the private property?

[n/t]

How far/close is Mount Forest to where the monster rode with LE in the helicopter?

[n/t]

No one is making any speculations, the remains will be secured (no one is objecting the use of the term "remains"), and a determination will be made ... but word is that the remains of an 8 year old child were found outside of Guelph.

How does that connect to Rafferty?

Didn't he live in Guelph?

[mrsmcgoo]

Jester, where did you read/hear that the remains were that of an 8ish-year-old? Any reports I've heard have all just said human remains, with no reference to age.

I am not Jester, but it is believed to be a child, as per this link.



http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gBMXccQvJ3hpxljKH5m2B2QFx6SQ

[mrsmcgoo]

This is probably old news to most, but was the car seat ever found?

[Hope4Tori]

Just a reminder that there were reports of an attempted abduction, in Mount Forest, of another young girl just five days before Tori was abducted.

No abduction attempts in Fergus, (GuelphMercury.com, by Greg Layson, May 23, 2009)
http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/article/485278

Sue Sgambati, CP24, reported that the lead investigator of Tori Stafford's case (O.P.P., Insp.Bill Renton) would be speaking to the press at 1:00 pm today to update the situation. As well, SS reported that Chief Julian Fantino said investigators have strong leads that make them believe that the remains found will be Victoria Stafford, but cannot yet make that confirmation.

Paraphrasing from SS's report this morning on CP24, police confirmed that an OPP police officer, acting on "information", around noon, drove to 6th Line north of HWY 89 yesterday, and noticed a certain landmark (perhaps as described by TLM in previous searches) and checked out the area and discovered the remains of what appears to be a young child in a rural area, a farm field in a wooded area.

Justmy2cents! I know how you feel - we all feel the same I'm sure - take care!

[Skraps]

Hi all.
That is a very well done map Lollilock.

I haven't heard if it was in fact an officer that found the remains, but Kudos to him/her for taking the initiative and following h gut through that area. The pull of adrenaline in finding the remains and deep sorrow must be tearing that officer apart right now.

I too, deep down, held a hope that Tori would come home safely but that fairly clearly looks like it is not going to be. In finding her remains, it will give her family the ability to physically put their sweet baby to rest. Maybe even wrapping the remains in a soft blanket, allowing mom and dad to hold their little girl one last time.

[Survivor]

May the healing process being...

((((((((((( HUGS for the Family& friends ))))))))))))


((((((((((( KUDOS to Law Enforcement))))))))))

REST IN PEACE VICTORIA:rose:

[Hope4Tori]

Sue Sgambati, CP24, reports that news conference is now confirmed for 1:30 pm today with OPP Insp., Bill Renton and Oxford Community Police Services, Chief of Police.

[kelloggirl]

As you can see, Mount Forest was already a location affiliated somewhat with this investigation.

I am waiting for confirmation of the exact spot, and will update the map momentarily.

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=100279953068513078256.00046ba276b2b212badab&z=8

Thank you so much for posting that very informative and illustrative map. It does show that the remains are right on the perimeter of that 50-minute area very well. I assume that that was the most concrete clue provided by TLM.

I never thought they would find her, honestly. I am amazed and glad, and of course, very saddened by the discovery, but ultimately know that this is a key piece of the puzzle to getting justice for Tori. :rose:

[n/t]

I wonder if the family was told. The first thing I thought of was Rodney's words when he was told Tori was no longer alive. I googled to make sure I didn't misquote anything he said at the time.

These were his words. :crying:

"I just don't know what to say," he said. "Right now, they're saying they have enough evidence to verify that Victoria has passed, but I myself, as Victoria's father, refuse to believe that until I actually see remains of my daughter, or my daughter's body.

"I love her with all my heart and until I see her, I will not lay this to rest," added Stafford, who was wearing a T-shirt with a picture of Victoria that read "Daddy's Little Girl."

"I've been wearing her proudly on my chest and in my heart since the day she was born."

May God give you strength and peace Rodney and to all members of Tori's family :rose:

[mrsmcgoo]

Does anyone that posts on this thread know if the car seat was found? :rolleyes:

[n/t]

Does anyone that posts on this thread know if the car seat was found? :rolleyes:

I don't think it was. There were many tips called in about car seats but we never heard whether or not they actually found the one they were looking for. I wanted to reply earlier but got caught up with work.

Hope you're doing well.

[mrsmcgoo]

Remains could belong to Tori Stafford, say OPP

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090720/remains_found_090720/20090720/?hub=TorontoNewHome

Stating remains found near rock pile. This is consistant with what we know from other searches, the rock pile.

God Bless this dear child!

[mrsmcgoo]

I don't think it was. There were many tips called in about car seats but we never heard whether or not they actually found the one they were looking for. I wanted to reply earlier but got caught up with work.

Hope you're doing well.


Thanks! Yes, doing great. Hope you are doing well also.

Seems like Tori is found, I feel relieved that the family will get some peace.

What a scary world we live in that things like this have to happen to innocent children. Makes me think sometimes that some humans are not too far removed from animals. :mad:

[KatieLady]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/...s-body452.html

About 10 investigators are conducting a search of the area where the remains were found.

Human remains found in southwestern Ontario are almost certainly those of Victoria Stafford, a Woodstock schoolgirl who has been missing for three months, according to the head of the provincial police.

"We have some very strong leads that cause us to believe that we have in fact located the human remains of [Victoria] Tori Stafford," Ontario Provincial Police Commissioner Julian Fantino said.

The officer who headed the investigation into Victoria's abduction and murder said the discovery was probably the end of the search.

"At this point we are hopeful that we will be able to honour the life of Victoria Stafford by reuniting her with her loved ones in Woodstock," said Det.-Insp. Bill Renton in a news release.

:rose: :rose:

[koawally]

Remains could belong to Tori Stafford, say OPP

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090720/remains_found_090720/20090720/?hub=TorontoNewHome

Stating remains found near rock pile. This is consistant with what we know from other searches, the rock pile.

God Bless this dear child!

WOW...Mount Forest, and here I was looking in Guelph and Fergus area.

Thank God this precious Angel has at long last been found.

:rose: Tori :rose:

:sad:

[~jomomma~]

..........


*sigh*

[n/t]

A black funeral hearse and a forensics truck was seen driving past the police blockade and onto the dirt road where the remains are located. The body was loaded into the hearse. An OPP officer saluted as the hearse drove away.

Const. Mark Cloes said officers will remain on the scene until they are relieved by crime scene investigators.

Cloes said the remains were found off of a dirt road that is well used by the Mennonite community. A detective who is part of the Stafford homicide investigative team was out for a drive when he noticed landmarks familiar to what the suspect described and decided to take a closer look.

"The area fit the profile of what we were looking for," Cloes said. "He went up the laneway and found the remains."

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...TorontoNewHome

:crying:

You will get justice sweet baby girl. :rose:

[Lollilock]

Here are the links (I think!) to where the presser *should* run at 1:30 pm.

London Free Press:

http://www.livestream.com/lfpress?referrer=mogulus

CP24

http://www.ctvdigital.com/news/cp24/player.html

[n/t]

Here are the links (I think!) to where the presser *should* run at 1:30 pm.

London Free Press:

http://www.livestream.com/lfpress?referrer=mogulus

CP24

http://www.ctvdigital.com/news/cp24/player.html

Thank you. I don't have sound at work so any updates would be greatly appreciated.

[Lollilock]

Thank you. I don't have sound at work so any updates would be greatly appreciated.

Lol. Same here, I was hoping someone could update. :rolleyes:

[n/t]

Tori...Tori...Tori....

I don`t think Rodney`s bike challenge will happen now, his heart will want to be close to where she is, not out West.

It is a heavy day.

It's still 2 weeks away. I think he'll still do it with even more determination. I hope so. For his little girl.


(((Rodney))):crying:

[Skraps]

Preview to the News Conference:

"At this point we cannot comment on that"

"No comment"

"Like I said we are unable to confirm or deny that information at this time"

"I don't have information on that"

"That is part of the investigation"

"Thank-you that is all I can release at this time"

Nonetheless, God bless the Police Officers in this case for all that they have, and are, doing.
We do understand that this is all in Tori's best interest.

[Lollilock]

A suspect in the case is purported to have told investigators that Stafford’s remains were dumped in a rural, farm area from which two silos were visible.

Officers at the scene of Sunday’s discovery say they do not know if that information is true.

Two silos are visible from where the remains were found

http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/article/511425

[koawally]

http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=1808466

Child's remains found believed to be those of Victoria Stafford: OPP
Jordana Huber and Linda Nguyen, Canwest News Service
Published: Monday, July 20, 2009

Bill Sandford for National Post
OPP Constable Andy Houston uses a transit to make measurements at the scene east of Mount Forest where a body was found. Police won't speculate if these are the remans of Tori Stafford who went ...

MOUNT FOREST, Ont. -- The Ontario Provincial Police believe that human remains of a child found Sunday in a rural area northwest of Guelph may be those of eight-year-old Victoria Stafford.

"We have some very strong leads that cause us to believe that we have, in fact, located the human remains of Tori Stafford," OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino told Toronto TV station CP24 on Monday. "As sad as this is, we're hopeful this will bring some closure to a very tragic and dastardly crime."

The remains were found by a lone police investigator searching for the little girl Sunday afternoon on a private property in a rural field about 500 metres off Concession No. 6, near Mount Forest, Ont.

The bones were found in a "very well secluded," heavily bushed area, said OPP Sgt. David Rektor.

The area where the remains were found sits across from a little grey house surrounded by lush green farmland.

Farmers use the unserviced access road where the remains were found as a shortcut between main roads.

More than two dozen investigators remained at and around the scene Monday, conducting a search within a five-kilometre area.

A hearse arrived just before noon Monday to transport the remains to the Centre for Forensic Sciences in Toronto for identification. No timeline has been given on when the identification will be made official.

Officers saluted the hearse as it travelled along a rural road en route to Toronto.

More information was expected to be released at a 1:30 p.m. news conference Monday.

Two people -- Terri-Lynne McClintic, 18, and Michael Rafferty, 28 -- have been charged with first-degree murder in connection with the death.

Both lived just blocks away from the girl's family in Woodstock, Ont., about 150 kilometres west of Toronto.

The blond-haired girl was last seen on a surveillance tape, willingly walking after school with an unknown woman on April 8.

According to court documents, it is believed the Grade 3 student was killed the same day she disappeared.

The search for the little girl's body began May 20, after the suspects were arrested and charged.

Woodstock Mayor Michael Harding said Monday the positive identification of these remains will provide closure for his city.

"I think we have all been waiting for the return of this little girl into the arms of her parents, although in tragic circumstances," he said. "The town is here to support this family and it will provide some measures of closure for the community. I don't know whether we will ever be able to move on."

Mr. Harding said he does not plan on speaking to the family about this latest development.

"No, I have not spoke to the family, nor do I contemplate doing so," Mr. Harding said. "What the family does not need is a politician on the other end of the phone. My role is to speak for the community as a whole and I'll leave the family to speak for themselves."

He said this "random" act has changed the community forever.

"I think time is a great healer but I don't think it can permanently heal what has happened to this particular family," Mr. Harding said. "We have claimed Tori as one of our own in the community. We're looking at our kids a little differently than in the past and we can't predict what the long term impact of this will be. But Woodstock remains a safe place for our children. It is not our expectation that this will be a regular occurrence."

Last month, Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland of the Oxford Community Police vowed that investigators would never give up the search for Tori Stafford.

"Ever since the get-go, we have wanted to reunite Tori with her loved ones. It's what anyone would hope for. We're going to continue to follow the evidence," Maitland said at the time. "It's a long process, a meticulous process. It would be beyond difficult for the family to feel any type of closure without a body."

Hundreds of people attended a memorial held in Woodstock in June in the girl's memory.

The high-profile case also drew international headlines when it was featured on the U.S. TV show America's Most Wanted.

From the start, the girl's mother, Tara McDonald held daily news conferences outside her home pleading with the kidnappers to return her baby daughter. At times, these media briefings grew tense when the estranged relationship between Ms. McDonald and her ex-husband Rodney Stafford came to the forefront. One time, the two were recorded arguing in front of the cameras.

This case also brought heavy criticisms onto Ontario's Amber Alert process which was not used in the Stafford case.

The Amber Alert system lets the public know about abducted children who are in imminent danger. At the time of Tori's disappearance, police said the case didn't fit the criteria for an Amber Alert and it was never activated.

Approximately 80 Ontario Provincial Police officers from several detachments and 25 Oxford Community police officers have been working on the case since the young girl's disappearance.

Mount Forest is about 132 kilometres north of Woodstock.

[n/t]

The officers saluted the hearse. It must've been so emotional for them after 2 months of searching for her remains. 2 months to the day.

:sad:

[Gugug]

http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=1808466

Child's remains found believed to be those of Victoria Stafford: OPP
Jordana Huber and Linda Nguyen, Canwest News Service
Published: Monday, July 20, 2009

Bill Sandford for National Post
OPP Constable Andy Houston uses a transit to make measurements at the scene east of Mount Forest where a body was found. Police won't speculate if these are the remans of Tori Stafford who went ...

MOUNT FOREST, Ont. -- The Ontario Provincial Police believe that human remains of a child found Sunday in a rural area northwest of Guelph may be those of eight-year-old Victoria Stafford.

"We have some very strong leads that cause us to believe that we have, in fact, located the human remains of Tori Stafford," OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino told Toronto TV station CP24 on Monday. "As sad as this is, we're hopeful this will bring some closure to a very tragic and dastardly crime."

The remains were found by a lone police investigator searching for the little girl Sunday afternoon on a private property in a rural field about 500 metres off Concession No. 6, near Mount Forest, Ont.

The bones were found in a "very well secluded," heavily bushed area, said OPP Sgt. David Rektor.

The area where the remains were found sits across from a little grey house surrounded by lush green farmland.

Farmers use the unserviced access road where the remains were found as a shortcut between main roads.

More than two dozen investigators remained at and around the scene Monday, conducting a search within a five-kilometre area.

A hearse arrived just before noon Monday to transport the remains to the Centre for Forensic Sciences in Toronto for identification. No timeline has been given on when the identification will be made official.

Officers saluted the hearse as it travelled along a rural road en route to Toronto.

More information was expected to be released at a 1:30 p.m. news conference Monday.

Two people -- Terri-Lynne McClintic, 18, and Michael Rafferty, 28 -- have been charged with first-degree murder in connection with the death.

Both lived just blocks away from the girl's family in Woodstock, Ont., about 150 kilometres west of Toronto.

The blond-haired girl was last seen on a surveillance tape, willingly walking after school with an unknown woman on April 8.

According to court documents, it is believed the Grade 3 student was killed the same day she disappeared.

The search for the little girl's body began May 20, after the suspects were arrested and charged.

Woodstock Mayor Michael Harding said Monday the positive identification of these remains will provide closure for his city.

"I think we have all been waiting for the return of this little girl into the arms of her parents, although in tragic circumstances," he said. "The town is here to support this family and it will provide some measures of closure for the community. I don't know whether we will ever be able to move on."

Mr. Harding said he does not plan on speaking to the family about this latest development.

"No, I have not spoke to the family, nor do I contemplate doing so," Mr. Harding said. "What the family does not need is a politician on the other end of the phone. My role is to speak for the community as a whole and I'll leave the family to speak for themselves."

He said this "random" act has changed the community forever.

"I think time is a great healer but I don't think it can permanently heal what has happened to this particular family," Mr. Harding said. "We have claimed Tori as one of our own in the community. We're looking at our kids a little differently than in the past and we can't predict what the long term impact of this will be. But Woodstock remains a safe place for our children. It is not our expectation that this will be a regular occurrence."

Last month, Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland of the Oxford Community Police vowed that investigators would never give up the search for Tori Stafford.

"Ever since the get-go, we have wanted to reunite Tori with her loved ones. It's what anyone would hope for. We're going to continue to follow the evidence," Maitland said at the time. "It's a long process, a meticulous process. It would be beyond difficult for the family to feel any type of closure without a body."

Hundreds of people attended a memorial held in Woodstock in June in the girl's memory.

The high-profile case also drew international headlines when it was featured on the U.S. TV show America's Most Wanted.

From the start, the girl's mother, Tara McDonald held daily news conferences outside her home pleading with the kidnappers to return her baby daughter. At times, these media briefings grew tense when the estranged relationship between Ms. McDonald and her ex-husband Rodney Stafford came to the forefront. One time, the two were recorded arguing in front of the cameras.

This case also brought heavy criticisms onto Ontario's Amber Alert process which was not used in the Stafford case.

The Amber Alert system lets the public know about abducted children who are in imminent danger. At the time of Tori's disappearance, police said the case didn't fit the criteria for an Amber Alert and it was never activated.

Approximately 80 Ontario Provincial Police officers from several detachments and 25 Oxford Community police officers have been working on the case since the young girl's disappearance.

Mount Forest is about 132 kilometres north of Woodstock.

A CTV news article said that the road is very secluded, but well-known to local Mennonite farmers. So how would MR and TLM have known about it?

[koawally]

A CTV news article said that the road is very secluded, but well-known to local Mennonite farmers. So how would MR and TLM have known about it?

Hi Gugug

The male accused used to work as a butcher in Guelph.
The whole area especially where the remains have been located is in farm country. There are several hidden and not heavily driven roads all over...if you want to hide a body the area is ripe for this.
The area the remains were found is in between farms. When we were searching we all were looking in between the farms. We were also looking for areas where we saw larger rocks in and around these areas.

We looked under EVERY rock area we could find.

No matter what is reported inside info is this is indeed Tori. The LE say they are "hopeful" it is.
Parents have been contacted.
Autopsy expected Wed

[n/t]

No PC yet?

[jljayne]

Just a reminder that there were reports of an attempted abduction, in Mount Forest, of another young girl just five days before Tori was abducted.

<snip>

http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/article/485278



The article reports several attempted abductions of children on their way to/from school. Sadly enough, walking to/from school or to/from a school bus stop is the most dangerous activity known to man. A real crime of opportunity for would-be kidnappers. They observe what happens at the same time each day and therefore know exactly where to find their victims.

[koawally]

No PC yet?

n/t

Yes the PC is over ( short )

see above post

[Gugug]

I see the setting for this PC is Victoria Park. Can't think of a more appropriate place to remember Tori.

[jljayne]

The article reports several attempted abductions of children on their way to/from school. Sadly enough, walking to/from school or to/from a school bus stop is the most dangerous activity known to man. A real crime of opportunity for would-be kidnappers. They observe what happens at the same time each day and therefore know exactly where to find their victims.

Unfortunately, with cities and towns cutting back on police and public safety because of the recession, the problem is going to get worse. We need to start getting our priorities straight.

[koawally]

The article reports several attempted abductions of children on their way to/from school. Sadly enough, walking to/from school or to/from a school bus stop is the most dangerous activity known to man. A real crime of opportunity for would-be kidnappers. They observe what happens at the same time each day and therefore know exactly where to find their victims.

jljayne, you are so right!! more and more of these creeps watch a child prior to kidnapping them and unfortunately these are horrific times our children are living through with so many SO monsters hunting and sharing information with one another.

Farm area children usually have long driveways and parents place a shelter for them at the end of the long laneways to sheild the children from harsh weather while waiting for buses. Bus drivers generally pick-up and drop off the country children.

[n/t]

n/t

Yes the PC is over ( short )

see above post

I see them set up at Victoria Park:confused:

[koawally]

I see them set up at Victoria Park:confused:

strange...I watched it at 1:30 on CBC WIN

[Gugug]

strange...I watched it at 1:30 on CBC WIN

Parents' reaction is on shortly. That's the one in Victoria Park.

No sound, then the camera cut out.

[jljayne]

Tori...Tori...Tori....

I don`t think Rodney`s bike challenge will happen now, his heart will want to be close to where she is, not out West.

It is a heavy day.

That's OK. Rodney (special friend that he is) can keep my donation and give it to Child Find Ontario or do whatever else he wishes with it.

[n/t]

LFP having technical difficulties. :rolleyes:

[koawally]

Parents' reaction is on shortly. That's the one in Victoria Park.

No sound, then the camera cut out.

The 1:30PM was only LE not parents reactions WOW...I'm on a link here trying to watch what you all are looking at...livestream is no good. Does anyone have a TV channel # ???

[Skraps]

Why does it always seem to be raining in Woodstock?

I think maybe it's the Angels crying.

[Gugug]

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/remains-found/#clip195373

Police Press Conference:

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/remains-found/#clip195310

[VC2]

The officers saluted the hearse. It must've been so emotional for them after 2 months of searching for her remains. 2 months to the day.

:sad:

Thanks so much to the officers who did not give up looking for little Tori. Hopefully her mom and brother and dad can have a little comfort knowing she will be laid to rest properly.

One thing i really like is the respect of putting her body in a hearse rather than a coroners van to go to the ME's office.

imo

[Gugug]

The 1:30PM was only LE not parents reactions WOW...I'm on a link here trying to watch what you all are looking at...livestream is no good. Does anyone have a TV channel # ???

I can't watch TV right now, but try CTV Newsnet on cable, or CBC Newsworld. Local Toronto stations probably have coverage, if you're able to get that.

[koawally]

I can't watch TV right now, but try CTV Newsnet on cable, or CBC Newsworld. Local Toronto stations probably have coverage, if you're able to get that.

Thanks Gugug for the links Friend.

So strange...Ontario Provincial Police had a news conference @ 1:30

so this one was after the earlier one...

God Bless lil Tori :wub: and her Family...it's all sooooo sad

It's good to hear the family will continue to help Child Find

[moonlite]

As you can see, Mount Forest was already a location affiliated somewhat with this investigation.

I am waiting for confirmation of the exact spot, and will update the map momentarily.

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=100279953068513078256.00046ba276b2b212badab&z=8

Greetings'
Lollilock"

Thanks for the links. Sounds like the police are pretty confident this is Tori. The map shows other attempted abductions? Do you know if any other children were approached and the time frame. I mean were these attempts right around the time Tori went missing?

Moonlite

[n/t]

Police 'hopeful' remains are those of Tori Stafford

Mon, July 20, 2009

Wellington County - A bit of luck and dogged police work led to the discovery of remains police are hopeful are those of Tori Stafford, Oxford Community Police acting chief Rod Freeman said.

"We are hopeful that they are in fact the remains of Victoria Stafford so we can bring her home to our community and to her family," Freeman said this afternoon at a news conference about one kilometre from where the remains were found.

Today is Freeman's first day on the job - he takes over as chief from Ron Fraser, who announced his retirement shortly after the arrests of two people in connection with Stafford's disappearance.

"The officers have worked very, very hard to get this search together.

"The main goal has been to bring Victoria home."

A police officer driving down Concession Road 6 saw landmarks that matched tips given to police during the Stafford search - a farmhouse, a wooded area.

About 500 metres down the narrow access road, used mostly by the local Mennonites to cut across to the next concession, the officer found human remains, said OPP Sgt. Dave Rektor.

The remains were taken to the Centre of Forensic Sciences in Toronto, taken out just after noon in a hearse.

"It's always a shock" when officers make such discoveries, Rektor added.

Stafford would have celebrated her ninth birthday last Wednesday.

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/07/20/10193006.html

[n/t]

Shortly after a hearse rolled out of a field near Mount Forest, Ont., carrying the remains of a child believed to be eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford, the little girl's family said the discovery may finally provide closure to an agonizing three months since she went missing.

Rebecca Stafford, the girl's aunt, read a brief speech in Woodstock Monday afternoon, saying the family believes the remains, which still need to be examined at the coroner's office in Toronto, are Tori's.

“Although this has not been officially confirmed, it is with a very heavy heart that I stand here today and declare that my hope for the safe return of our sweetheart has finally dissolved. Our entire family is in mourning.”




http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/stafford-family-hopes-discovery-brings-closure/article1224911/


:rose:

[n/t]

Shortly after she spoke, the girl's father Rodney Stafford – said earlier to be too distraught to speak publicly – appeared before reporters and echoed his sister's sentiments.

“At least I don't have to continue being out and about looking. Even until last night I was still doing it. You can help but think was that her just up ahead, or was that her voice in the background. You cant help but hear that.”

Before the discovery of the remains, Mr. Stafford had planned a bike-ride to Alberta as part of a fundraiser for Child Find Canada. It was to begin after a August 1st fundraiser in the community. He said that will still go forward.

“Whatever I can do to help out families out there that might be in a similar situation in bringing their children home, or even prevent other children from disappearing, I'm definitely going to make that goal and be doing this for Victoria,” he said.

“I will say my goodbye to Victoria when I get to the top of the mountain, after my bike ride.”

:crying:
.
.
.
.

[juliekan]

I wonder what sort of condition the body will be in...will they be able to determine cause of death?

[Gugug]

I wonder what sort of condition the body will be in...will they be able to determine cause of death?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Family+feels+relief+human+remains+Tori/1808459/story.html:

MOUNT FOREST, Ont. — Police investigators believe the human remains of a child found Sunday in a rural area northwest of Guelph are those of an eight-year-old Woodstock, Ont., girl who has been missing for more than three months.

"We are hopeful that those are in fact the remains of Victoria Stafford," said Oxford community police chief Rod Freeman Monday. "The reason for that is that we want to be able to bring her home, bring her back to the City of Woodstock and back to her family."

The remains were found by a lone police investigator searching for the little girl Sunday afternoon on private property in a rural field about 500 metres off Concession No. 6, just east of Mount Forest, Ont.

The bones were found in a "very well secluded," heavily bushed area across from a little grey house surrounded by lush green farmland.

Farmers use the unserviced access road where the remains were found as a shortcut between main roads.

More than two dozen investigators remained at and around the scene Monday, conducting a search within a five-kilometre radius.

A hearse arrived just before noon Monday to transport the remains to the Centre for Forensic Sciences in Toronto for identification through dental records.

Officers saluted the hearse as it travelled along a rural road en route to Toronto.

Freeman said that the findings were "consistent" with how remains would appear if they were left out in the elements for "quite some time, quite a number of weeks."

No timeline has been given on when the identification will be made official and the whole process may take weeks.

He attributed the discovery to dedicated police work.

"The intensity of the investigation hasn't been diminished at all," said Freeman. "The officers assigned to this investigation have been putting forth, devoting an absolutely remarkable effort, 24 hours a day in an effort to bring this to a conclusion."

Stafford's father, Rodney, told a news conference Monday that this was not the ending the family had hoped for.

"I've always had hope, I couldn't let it go," Rodney Stafford said. "No one wants to believe their child has been murdered, but if that's the case, at least it coming to a rest."

He said the community has been tragically affected by the killing of his daughter.

"Anybody who knows Victoria's story has been holding their children closer. Like any other time, you are running through all different scenarios," he said. "Out of the scenarios that we came up with, it was the worst of the possibilities."

Stafford's aunt, Rebecca Stafford said that they would've spent a "lifetime" wondering where the little girl was.

"Our mentality going in, regardless of what they (police) had to share, it would be positive. Although it is not the ending we were hoping for, we are (now) not going to be spending a lifetime wondering," she said, through tears. "We're not going to be looking in every car, looking in every back seat that we drive by, of every window of every house that we drive by, we're not going to be wondering if Victoria is in there. So yes, there is a sense of relief."

Police investigators notified the family about the new development Sunday night. A police car was seen parked outside Stafford's mother's Tara McDonald's home, Monday.

Two people — Terri-Lynne McClintic, 18, and Michael Rafferty, 28 — have been charged with first-degree murder in connection with the death.

Both lived just blocks away from the girl's family in Woodstock, Ont., about 150 kilometres west of Toronto.

The blond-haired girl was last seen on a surveillance tape, willingly walking after school with an unknown woman on April 8.

According to court documents, it is believed the Grade 3 student was killed the same day she disappeared.

The search for the little girl's body began May 20, after the suspects were arrested and charged.

Woodstock Mayor Michael Harding said the positive identification of these remains will provide closure for his city.

"I think we have all been waiting for the return of this little girl into the arms of her parents, although in tragic circumstances," he said. "The town is here to support this family and it will provide some measures of closure for the community. I don't know whether we will ever be able to move on."

Harding said this "random" act has changed the community forever.

"I think time is a great healer but I don't think it can permanently heal what has happened to this particular family," Harding said. "We have claimed Tori as one of our own in the community. We're looking at our kids a little differently than in the past and we can't predict what the long term impact of this will be. But Woodstock remains a safe place for our children. It is not our expectation that this will be a regular occurrence."

Last month, hundreds of people attended a memorial held in Woodstock in June in the girl's memory.

The high-profile case also drew international headlines when it was featured on the U.S. TV show America's Most Wanted.

From the start, the girl's mother, Tara McDonald held daily news conferences outside her home pleading with the kidnappers to return her baby daughter. At times, these media briefings grew tense when the relationship between McDonald and her ex-husband Rodney Stafford were recorded in front of the cameras.

This case also brought heavy criticism onto Ontario's Amber Alert process which was not used in the Stafford case.

The Amber Alert system lets the public know about abducted children who are in imminent danger. At the time of Tori's disappearance, police said the case didn't fit the criteria for an Amber Alert and it was never activated.

Approximately 80 Ontario Provincial Police officers from several detachments and 25 Oxford Community police officers have been working on the case since the young girl's disappearance.

Mount Forest is about 132 kilometres north of Woodstock.

There's the answer. Dental records will be used, police have said.

[justmy2cents]

In all honesty, with the OPP saluting the hearse I strongly feel this is indeed Tori, I have never seen LE salute a vehicle driving remains.:crying:

I'm not good with remembering names but just stay with me here: the officer during the presser was asked if clothing or anything else was found with the remains. He stated ( not verbatim ) that he couldn't comment but there was the hesitation before his answer and with family being informed I think it is really safe to assume that this indeed is her. She had specific items with her, which I assume have been seen by LE involved with the remains.

Bless our amazing OPP to have never given up searching for this beautiful girl, Canada's beautiful girl. The OPP's dedication to Tori has made me proud and greatful to live in Ontario.

Victoria Stafford taken too soon, touched all our lives...May she now rest in peace.... I know she has forever changed the safety I have felt for my children living here in southwestern Ontario.

Please no disrespect intended for my American members but I have always had this sense of security here (as false as it may be), these types of things "don't happen here", only in states. My eyes have really been opened to the evils that really lurk in my own back yard. I pray that the two charged ( they don't deserve to be called by their name ) get sentenced to the maximum allowed in Canada, I don't want to wait for Karma to kick in or for them to be judged by God. . .I want them to get theirs NOW...:angry:

[moonlite]

Shortly after she spoke, the girl's father Rodney Stafford – said earlier to be too distraught to speak publicly – appeared before reporters and echoed his sister's sentiments.

“At least I don't have to continue being out and about looking. Even until last night I was still doing it. You can help but think was that her just up ahead, or was that her voice in the background. You cant help but hear that.”

Before the discovery of the remains, Mr. Stafford had planned a bike-ride to Alberta as part of a fundraiser for Child Find Canada. It was to begin after a August 1st fundraiser in the community. He said that will still go forward.

“Whatever I can do to help out families out there that might be in a similar situation in bringing their children home, or even prevent other children from disappearing, I'm definitely going to make that goal and be doing this for Victoria,” he said.

“I will say my goodbye to Victoria when I get to the top of the mountain, after my bike ride.”

:crying:
.
.
.
.

Greetings"
N/T'

Thanks for sharing the articles. Yes' I'm right there with you;crying. Hopefully' Tori's dad will continue to do something positive from this whole event. I commend him for wanting to help other children and families.
I still think TLM & MR, both should get Capital Punishment!! I know some don't agree!!

I think it's a sick person who would harm a child. Sending a strong message to these perp's just might save a child's life in the future.IMO

Moonlite

[doctor_J]

Thanks so much to the locals for the postings in their entirety from the reports.

I'm in shock. I spent so much time preparing myself for her never being found.

I'm so grateful and in complete awe of the dedicated officers who never gave up on this child and her family. This officer obviously had her on his mind constantly. Wonder if he was off duty?

Seeing Lollilocks map, It's unbelievable that she could be found. Truly a needle in a haystack.

I nope there is evidence remaining that will definitively tell Tori's side of the story and convict these suspects (I can't think of an allowable word to call them),

I salute the officers!

[moonlite]

In all honesty, with the OPP saluting the hearse I strongly feel this is indeed Tori, I have never seen LE salute a vehicle driving remains.:crying:

I'm not good with remembering names but just stay with me here: the officer during the presser was asked if clothing or anything else was found with the remains. He stated ( not verbatim ) that he couldn't comment but there was the hesitation before his answer and with family being informed I think it is really safe to assume that this indeed is her. She had specific items with her, which I assume have been seen by LE involved with the remains.

Bless our amazing OPP to have never given up searching for this beautiful girl, Canada's beautiful girl. The OPP's dedication to Tori has made me proud and greatful to live in Ontario.

Victoria Stafford taken too soon, touched all our lives...May she now rest in peace.... I know she has forever changed the safety I have felt for my children living here in southwestern Ontario.

Please no disrespect intended for my American members but I have always had this sense of security here (as false as it may be), these types of things "don't happen here", only in states. My eyes have really been opened to the evils that really lurk in my own back yard. I pray that the two charged ( they don't deserve to be called by their name ) get sentenced to the maximum allowed in Canada, I don't want to wait for Karma to kick in or for them to be judged by God. . .I want them to get theirs NOW...:angry:

Greetings"
Justmy2cents'

I think there are perp's in every community!! We do have the sexual offenders list here in USA. But what is scary' the perp's we don't know about and are out there on the loose.
We just had another little girl go missing in Washington State. I had a false sense of security too here in my town. Well that was until J. Duncan, hit my community. I will say this' it sure made me aware of what is going on around me.

Moonlite

[doctor_J]

Greetings"
N/T'

Thanks for sharing the articles. Yes' I'm right there with you;crying. Hopefully' Tori's dad will continue to do something positive from this whole event. I commend him for wanting to help other children and families.
I still think TLM & MR, both should get Capital Punishment!! I know some don't agree!!

I think it's a sick person who would harm a child. Sending a strong message to these perp's just might save a child's life in the future.IMO

Moonlite

It's not going to happen. Neither is LWOP. That what disgusts me. They'll be out in 25 years (or less, right?) unless they can be declared Habitually Dangerous or something like that. I don't think they qualify, with it being their first murder. I could be wrong but it seems like Canada is very lenient with murderers, counting on rehabilitation.....:rolleyes:

No offense to the Canadians, seems most of you have agreed there should be special sentencing for child sex offenders.

[north-eh]

Why does it always seem to be raining in Woodstock?

I think maybe it's the Angels crying.

Hi Skraps, what an absolutely beautiful thing to say, thank you it is so fitting for such a time as this.
Hubby and I were away most of the day and when I returned I had a message in my FB pm box telling me to go to a link that was reporting the remains discovery. I was shocked but I hope it is Victoria, this family needs to have this stage of closure. It won't be easy but like Rodney said, at least they will now know where she is, IF this is indeed Victoria. In his presser he said he would say his good-byes to her when he takes his bicycle trip and reaches the mountain to launch the balloon.
My heart went out to the family, what a sad day.:crying:
God Bless them.....
N

[Lovethechild]

Just logged on and saw the news. I truely thought she might still be alive. Tori, Rest in peace.:crying: May her family get some peace. To the officer that found her: God bless you.



To her killers: May you rott in h$ll.

[moonlite]

A suspect in the case is purported to have told investigators that Stafford’s remains were dumped in a rural, farm area from which two silos were visible.

Officers at the scene of Sunday’s discovery say they do not know if that information is true.

Two silos are visible from where the remains were found

http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/article/511425

Greetings"
Lollilock"

Have you heard which one of the suspects said where Tori was?

Moonlite

[moonlite]

A CTV news article said that the road is very secluded, but well-known to local Mennonite farmers. So how would MR and TLM have known about it?

Greetings"
Gugug"

Didn't one of the news articles say that MR, grew up around that area? I could be wrong!! But that is what I thought was said.

Moonlite

[streeter]

Rest in peace, Tori. I will light a candle for you tonight and be thankful that you are finally warm and safe. I will try as hard as I can to love my enimese, because you just didn't get that chance.

I'm sorry you had to look into the face of evil.

[Lollilock]

Greetings"
Lollilock"

Have you heard which one of the suspects said where Tori was?

Moonlite

Well, there is only one suspect working with LE that we know of, and so I am presuming TLM.

LE were using a detailed map that she drew for them.

The area originally searched, indicated on my map by the 2 green arrows, looks quite similar to the current area where the remains were found.

To me, this means NO DEAL, NO DEAL, NO DEAL.

[Lollilock]

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Family+feels+relief+human+remains+Tori/1808459/story.html

Click on the video.

[moonlite]

Well, there is only one suspect working with LE that we know of, and so I am presuming TLM.

LE were using a detailed map that she drew for them.

The area originally searched, indicated on my map by the 2 green arrows, looks quite similar to the current area where the remains were found.

To me, this means NO DEAL, NO DEAL, NO DEAL.

Greetings"
Lollilock'

Hopefully' there will be no deal cut now!! What about those other attempted abductions? I'm only asking because this could lead to some sort of defense for MR. I mean causing reasonable doubt!! What is sad these two people could still get out after only spending 25 yrs and have some sort of life!! Lil Tori' will never have that chance!!

Moonlite

[n/t]

I don't think they'll ever get out. No way. Unless there was a deal with TLM and she could get the same deal Karla got.

They will be charged with first degree murder with no possibility of parole for 25 years. These 2 monsters will never see freedom again. I will bet my last looney.