Michael Jackson Wed. 7/1/09

[Athena2]

We were over the 1,000 limit so I started a new thread.

[FallenAngel♥]

ty....................

Ok what's everyones thoughts on the glass coffin?

I hope the paper got that wrong.

[tinkerbell]

ty....................

Ok what's everyones thoughts on the glass coffin?

I hope the paper got that wrong.

I don't like the idea of "viewings" or an open casket for anyone...

I realize that I am most likely in the minority with my feelings...

moo

[FallenAngel♥]

I don't like the idea of "viewings" or an open casket for anyone...

I realize that I am most likely in the minority with my feelings...

moo

i must be in the minority on this also because ITA.

[CinderL.]

I don't like the idea of "viewings" or an open casket for anyone...

I realize that I am most likely in the minority with my feelings...

moo

Well, I sure agree with you. Especially for someone like MJ. He hid from the public. Wore masks for goodness sakes to hide. I can't imagine he would want the "public" to pass by his glass encased casket staring at him. Horrific.

[CinderL.]

Bringing this one over..........



Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena2 View Post
Haven't seen it. Thanks juliekan
From the article..............

"Chernoff, who was present during a 3 1/2-hour questioning session with police, said his client had not injected the powerful painkiller Demerol, despite rumors that the singer received a shot of the narcotic before he went into cardiac arrest Thursday.

“The doctor never prescribed nor administered Demerol to Michael Jackson,” Chernoff said of Murray who left his practices in Houston and Las Vegas three weeks ago to be Jackson’s personal physician. “Nor Oxycontin.”
****
I wonder if they asked the Dr. if he gave MJ Propofol ?

[who_is_it]

If this is true "potent drug used for surgical anesthesia"
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/michael-jackson-propofol-lidocaine-overdose-criminal/

unequals

psychotropic drug IMO

[tinkerbell]

Bringing this one over..........



Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena2 View Post
Haven't seen it. Thanks juliekan
From the article..............

"Chernoff, who was present during a 3 1/2-hour questioning session with police, said his client had not injected the powerful painkiller Demerol, despite rumors that the singer received a shot of the narcotic before he went into cardiac arrest Thursday.

“The doctor never prescribed nor administered Demerol to Michael Jackson,” Chernoff said of Murray who left his practices in Houston and Las Vegas three weeks ago to be Jackson’s personal physician. “Nor Oxycontin.”
****
I wonder if they asked the Dr. if he gave MJ Propofol ?

I believe that Dr Murray's counsel only specifically addressed prescribing and/or administration of the drugs Demerol and Oxycotton...

moo

[tinkerbell]

RIP MIchael. No one knows definitely about your so called drug use.
It's all speculation.
I respected and loved you in life and I honor you in death.

You will be missed more than any celebrity. Because you were larger than life and so was your talent.


I always wanted to be the girl in the video 'The Way You Make ME Feel'

I don't know with certainty that Christopher Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492; but there are reasonable accounts that he did...

moo

[who_is_it]

"A registered nurse has come out and said Jackson begged her for the drug Diprivan -- the brand name for Propofol. She says he needed it for insomnia but she declined to supply it."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/michael-jackson-propofol-lidocaine-overdose-criminal/

Maybe someone working for doctor Klein?

Extremely strange considering he was "the old" like one knew him from his past videos the night before and that all people were surprised how energetic he was dancing...

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-jackson-rehearsal27-2009jun27,0,4699249.story

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090626/entertainment/us_michael_jackson_final_days

... combined with the fact he hired back the lawyer Branca one week before his death.


Got to log out... :seeya:

[tinkerbell]

Christopher Colombus was an alcoholic and a rapist. He gave the Indians blankets infected with small pox. What's your point?

My point is simple; all we really know of history is from verbal and written accounts...

moo

[aproudmom]

We were over the 1,000 limit so I started a new thread.

Thank Athena for the new thread

[aproudmom]

"A registered nurse has come out and said Jackson begged her for the drug Diprivan -- the brand name for Propofol. She says he needed it for insomnia but she declined to supply it."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/michael-jackson-propofol-lidocaine-overdose-criminal/

Maybe someone working for doctor Klein?

Extremely strange considering he was "the old" like one knew him from his past videos the night before and that all people were surprised how energetic he was dancing...

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-jackson-rehearsal27-2009jun27,0,4699249.story

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090626/entertainment/us_michael_jackson_final_days

... combined with the fact he hired back the lawyer Branca one week before his death.


Got to log out... :seeya:

see ya later who..thanks for the links..

[aproudmom]

Suzetta -- There is a memorial thread here:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=355391

Athena do you or anyone else know if the report of Joe and Katherine not living together he lives in Vegas and has for a few years and also is she is good health she really looks good for her age..TIA if anyone knows...O and thank for the link to the memorial thread:wink:

[aproudmom]

me and my oldest son was watching all of his videos on youtube today BTW my son is now a huge MJ fan he is 19..anyway I watched the dancers for his upcoming tour and I got to thinking I felt so bad for them also they had the opportunity to work with a huge Icon a once in a lifetime thing..they were so happy and in tears when they got picked..I just kinda felt bad for them plus they did spend some time with him right up to the night before he passed away:sad:

[aproudmom]

You're welcome :wink:

I had actually thought they did not live together for a long while but someone did say they were living together but he spends a lot of time Las Vegas. I'm really not sure about Katherine's health but according to her lawyer she is (but he would say that anyway I think)

thanks I heard it on CNN and HLN and wondered but did not want to ask and get attacked for asking but knew some of you knew more about MJ and his family...I was talking to my Grandma today and we got to talking about MJ and she said no one knows the pain of burying their child that it should be the other way..I lost my uncle and she has not been the same and I do not know what I would do with out my children..

[emdragon]

I don't like the idea of "viewings" or an open casket for anyone...

I realize that I am most likely in the minority with my feelings...

moo

I'm of mixed feelings. When my Grandfather died I did not want to attend the viewing but did so for my grandmother since it was important to her. I found it creepy and unsettling but fast forward a few years to my grandmothers funeral and I found the viewing comforting and even took photo's of her and all the flowers for my mother who couldn't be there.

Glass coffin? Yeah sadly I can see it. Did you hear the family "cough,cough" Joe i', sure--- believes a million people will come.

A Million people are right now traveling the world on a moments notice all to arrive on Friday. Ok let me know how a million people all got hotels and flights.

[aproudmom]

Has Justin T said anymore about doing his tour I am guessing no since they are telling everyone how to get their refund..he said something the other night that was very sweet and said if you got a ticket and refund send it to MJ kids...wont happen but thought it was sweet of him

[VC2]

I believe that Dr Murray's counsel only specifically addressed prescribing and/or administration of the drugs Demerol and Oxycotton...

moo

if they found propfinol (sp) in him, that would be the reason for the return to the house imo

Its one thing to find syringes in a house, i have a box of a hundred and some different sizes in lesser amounts, but it is another to find the IV kit with the tubing, the stopper etc. (let alone iv bag)

It just made me realize i dont have a new kit and will pick one up at the vets along with a bag of fluids (always want it on hand in case of shock after an accident or dehydration)

A drug they hadn't suspected, and mode of use is a drip so therefore they searched again.

If it was this, its absolutely tragic. imo he looked like he was getting himself back together physically, down to a maintenance dose of demerol and then he dies bc some one gave him a drug for insomnia that was way way wrong outside of a hospital and without at the least an ambu bag and oxygen at hand, as well as intubation materials.

IMO

[aproudmom]

I lost my baby brother when he was 20 -- so I know what it did to my mom :(

Read the Time article -- it's really good. I'm going to call it a night and will see you tomorrow. Goodnight, sleep well. :seeya:

night and so sorry I could not bare to lose one of my sisters..talk to you tomorrow...

[aproudmom]

When they say glass coffin I would think the casket is going to be normal but there will be clear glass over him and instead of the regular opening. If that's the case I actually think it's a good idea. With all the people that are expected -- people get nuts and might want to try to touch him.

I agree we saw them trying to get into that hospital..I can not imagine what it will be like so I got to agree it is a very good idea if true IMO...

[aproudmom]

You know an excellent point was raised by a guest on LKL (didn't catch his name). He said the house was released two days ago. The Jacksons picked up his possessions, LE went back yesterday to obtain more evidence, and if this turns out to be more than a death investigation -- the scene has been contaminated. :ohmy:

they said the same thing on Anderson Cooper..that is why so many are saying they were there for a reason such as perhaps needles . prescription medication..and they know what killed him the brain is what takes awhile for the testing is what the doc said on there

[aproudmom]

if they found propfinol (sp) in him, that would be the reason for the return to the house imo

Its one thing to find syringes in a house, i have a box of a hundred and some different sizes in lesser amounts, but it is another to find the IV kit with the tubing, the stopper etc. (let alone iv bag)

It just made me realize i dont have a new kit and will pick one up at the vets along with a bag of fluids (always want it on hand in case of shock after an accident or dehydration)

A drug they hadn't suspected, and mode of use is a drip so therefore they searched again.

If it was this, its absolutely tragic. imo he looked like he was getting himself back together physically, down to a maintenance dose of demerol and then he dies bc some one gave him a drug for insomnia that was way way wrong outside of a hospital and without at the least an ambu bag and oxygen at hand, as well as intubation materials.

IMO

that nurse even said she had given him IV's but it was some sort of natural medication IIRC

[aproudmom]

I don't like the idea of "viewings" or an open casket for anyone...

I realize that I am most likely in the minority with my feelings...

moo

I hate funerals I hate open caskets but since I was young I would lay and think what if I lost my parents..and when I hit 20 I had my first Panic Attack and since then I can not go to a funeral unless they are cremated like my uncle I would have ended up in the ER 15 years later I am worse than I was with death..but that is just me..

[Unperson1984]

i must be in the minority on this also because ITA.


We must be a large minority.

[aproudmom]

Please give me a break. I just saw on HLN that it was said that Michael Jackson was larger than life. What is up with that? There is no one on this earth that is larger than life. NONE. The tabloid media, HLN, CNN, FOX and MSNBC are milking the story of MJ to the n'th degree. "larger than life", what exactly does that mean. Does that put him in the category of Jesus Christ on Earth? Where are these people comming from? Apparently Pluto. Not from this bloggers perspective. MJ was a talented young child who was never allowed to grow up to be a man. Maybe it should be said that it takes a man or woman to be larger than life. Certainly not a child in a "cough cough" man's body. Less than one tenth of one percent of the population of this world care one wit about who or what MJ was. The blogesphere and Media is making him something he was not.

In this bloggers opinion, Michael Jackson was nothing more or nothing less than a talented "Star" who died of an overdose of drugs with so many others, i.e. "The Real King Elvis", Marilyn Monroe, Heath Ledger, Jim Morrison, Brad Renfro, River Phoenix, Frankie Lymon, Hank Williams, Chris Farley, Jimmie Hendrix, Jim Belushi, and the great Janis Joplin. How many more do you wish me to name? They pissed their lives away for the love of the bad fruit. Do I feel sorry? Hell no I don't. They had their choices. No one shoved that crap down their throats or in their noses or in their veins. The did it to themselves. Why would I feel sorry like the rest of the bleeding hearts out there who want to memoralize a drug addict and a pedophile. Oh, I guess the devil made them do it. Well so be it, no loss to me. I just don't give a damn. In the grand scheme of things my life nor yours will change one lick unless you are obsessed with the fallen "King of Pop".

I guess we all have our opinions..I am far from obsessed do I care he is dead YES my gosh I do not like to see anyone die MJ or joe blow down the road..

[aproudmom]

Yes - can you imagine how excited those dancers were that they were going to perform in MJ's shows. It is very sad. Time did a few interviews with the dancers (more at link):

Jackson had been preparing to take the world back, Holley says, and during the singer's final night, he finally knew he was ready. "You would think that, on the one hand, the world has kind of beaten him up, and you could forgive him for having some trepidation and fear. But he didn't have any of that," says Holley. "Words fail to describe what people would have seen with the tour. I couldn't even imagine until last week when it became physically apparent [on the set]. He was ready to show the world, and I so wish there could have been just one concert so the world would have seen."

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

omg Athena thanks I wondered if any of them had been talking..thanks a bunch for the link

[aproudmom]

well see ya all later gonna hit the sack..

[*Serenity*]

The funniest youtube clips of Michael are funny and cute.
He mentions he does not want to be buried- he wants to live forever in the first one. One of them he mentions he hates going on tours, and one of them he is having a blast with his cousins at the pool.
I spent some time tonight reflecting back on a lot of videos and interviews.




Michaels Funniest Moments Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3BZq...eature=related

Michaels Funniest Moments Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYsc2...eature=related

Michaels Funniest Moments Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMYvW5JAIrA&NR=1

LaToya speaks about Michael in 1994 (yikes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfUC8...eature=related

Janet about Michael 2001 (short but sweet)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q9vV...eature=related


Michael Jackson-- Beat It Interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lfk2n-iRDU&feature=fvw

Michael Jackson -- Jet Interview (relaxed interview)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCKxPWIyOuI&NR=1

Michael Jackson (Bill Clinton Gala)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ubC1...eature=related

[RootBeer]

Neither do I aproudmom but I won't waste a moment of my life grieving over someone who cared less about his own life and many fans, some of whom cared enough to take thier own lives because of him. How very very pathetic that one person could have that kind of influence on some. I do not know how he could ever rest in peace if he knew what he caused. Selfish indulgence is the only answer.

It is not MJ's fault that people are killing themselves. jmo

[Scampi]

Does anyone know how long the Dr. was with MJ before he stopped breathing - or had he just gotten there?

Good morning everyone. Please read Coldwater's sticky and let's keep this forum open.

Athie, this is the million dollar question. Why was Murray there that morning? Was it a routine visit or had he been called because Michael was not feeling well. What time did he arrive and how soon after was 911 called.

I still believe this doctor injected Michael with something, that morning.

[disneyfreak]

Dr. Murray had been with Michael for 30 minutes before the call was made. He had left for a brief period because he didn't have the physical address of the home, and felt he needed it to call 911 as the only working phone was his cell (for "security purposes"). Source is AP (http://preview.tinyurl.com/msrw3u), the Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6503818.html) among other sources.

[Scampi]

Please give me a break. I just saw on HLN that it was said that Michael Jackson was larger than life. What is up with that? (snipped)"King of Pop".

I think the larger then life description stems from Michael Jackson's great influence on the music of his time and the profound impression he left with his millions of fans through out the world.

He was an entertainer par excellence, he could do it all write, dance, sing, play an instrument and act.

He was also human and had flaws.

[PBJMOM4]

"A registered nurse has come out and said Jackson begged her for the drug Diprivan -- the brand name for Propofol. She says he needed it for insomnia but she declined to supply it."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/michael-jackson-propofol-lidocaine-overdose-criminal/

Maybe someone working for doctor Klein?

Extremely strange considering he was "the old" like one knew him from his past videos the night before and that all people were surprised how energetic he was dancing...

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-jackson-rehearsal27-2009jun27,0,4699249.story

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090626/entertainment/us_michael_jackson_final_days

... combined with the fact he hired back the lawyer Branca one week before his death.


Got to log out... :seeya:

I kind of wonder why she called into LKL and Cooper's show and not law enforcement, or the family etc. and when she was asked if the law enforcment contacted her {as af Tuesday night} her answer was, "NO."

[dinojen]

Let the circus begin.. this is so pathetic.. just had the news on and now which I don't really find that hard to believe because both of these fools have ego's as big as god knows what.. Good old Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are now arguing over who is going to officiate over the services..:rolleyes:

Is this a memorial service or pay per view prime time infomercial...

It's being reported just this morning.. first a memorial at the Staples center in LA.. from there a procession some two and a half hours away to Neverland where he will lay in "display" and then Sunday a "private" memorial service for just the family...

This whole thing is just to bizarre. I'm all for memorializing someone in their death.. but this is just downright NUTS... JMVHO

4th of July weekend and they are going to motorcade some two and a half hours up the crazy freeways in so. CA up to Santa Barbara.. I bet the people living near Neverland are just thrilled...:huh: Must be a Joe Jackson Production..

[PBJMOM4]

Let the circus begin.. this is so pathetic.. just had the news on and now which I don't really find that hard to believe because both of these fools have ego's as big as god knows what.. Good old Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are now arguing over who is going to officiate over the services..:rolleyes:

Is this a memorial service or pay per view prime time infomercial...

It's being reported just this morning.. first a memorial at the Staples center in LA.. from there a procession some two and a half hours away to Neverland where he will lay in "display" and then Sunday a "private" memorial service for just the family...

This whole thing is just to bizarre. I'm all for memorializing someone in their death.. but this is just downright NUTS... JMVHO

4th of July weekend and they are going to motorcade some two and a half hours up the crazy freeways in so. CA up to Santa Barbara.. I bet the people living near Neverland are just thrilled...:huh: Must be a Joe Jackson Production..

Reading on TMZ now that area hotels are all booking up if not, already sold out.

[GIGI4256]

I don't know what to say except I think Michael would be appalled by all of this. I wonder if his children were consulted or asked what they think of this. I know they are young, but still - IMO - they should be included in making these decisions.

ITA. This is sickening! Neverland should not be used for this travesty. Michael's children know how he felt and they should definitely be involved. Unfortunately, I believe they are being left out purposely so that others can make money. This IS a circus and a disgrace. JMO of course.:sad:

[n/t]

I don't know what to say except I think Michael would be appalled by all of this. I wonder if his children were consulted or asked what they think of this. I know they are young, but still - IMO - they should be included in making these decisions.

Maybe I'm missing something but why do you think Michael would be appalled by all of this? His fans were his life. Yes, he liked his privacy but when he was on stage, he gave it all for his fans.

We saw him at the trial when he got on that SUV to thank his fans for being there.

IMO, I don't think he would want his funeral to be any other way. Again, for his fans. It's time for his fans to say their goodbyes and to thank him now.

Maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised and it will be a beautiful memorial.

[flipflop]

Maybe I'm missing something but why do you think Michael would be appalled by all of this? His fans were his life. Yes, he liked his privacy but when he was on stage, he gave it all for his fans.

We saw him at the trial when he got on that SUV to thank his fans for being there.

IMO, I don't think he would want his funeral to be any other way. Again, for his fans. It's time for his fans to say their goodbyes and to thank him now.

Maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised and it will be a beautiful memorial.

That is kind of what I think also. MJ led an eccentric lifestyle. He seemed to like the extravagant.

[VC2]

ITA. This is sickening! Neverland should not be used for this travesty. Michael's children know how he felt and they should definitely be involved. Unfortunately, I believe they are being left out purposely so that others can make money. This IS a circus and a disgrace. JMO of course.:sad:

I disagree. MJ fought tooth and nail to keep part of neverland. He could have let the last 25% go but he didn't.Somehow every time it was in danger he pulled something out of the hat. He would love to be memorialized there with thousands of fans able to join in.

This all happened pretty quickly after the will was shown to the family as well. he may have given instructions for this

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I about fell over this morning when I heard on CNN during the interview with the Nurse, who was called by Michael on Fathers Day trying to get this Drug (Diprivan- or Propofol) I have only seen this drug used in a anesthesia situation..or when patient is already intubated (like when in ICU)..What would possess Michael to want to play with meds like this..and why in the world would Dr. Murray allow this to go on!!??

Here's some info on that drug:
http://www.rxlist.com/diprivan-drug.htm

Here's list of Indications:

Table 3. Indications for DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion


Indication Approved Patient Population
Initiation and maintenance of Monitored Anesthesia Care (MAC) sedation Adults only
Combined sedation and regional anesthesia Adults only (See PRECAUTIONS)
Induction of General Anesthesia Patients ≥ 3 years of age
Mainenance of General Anesthesia Patients ≥ 2 months of age
Intensive Care Unit (ICU) sedation of intubated, mechanically ventilated patients Adults only

Man oh Man..This goes way beyond the boundaries for Drug Abuse..This was "Roulette" and accident bound to happen..and yikes Dr. Murray should be ashamed to take part in this without proper equipment...

If you read the above link..(its for Professional Information) youcan see this drug cannot be given by oneself..as its onset is within seconds..not minutes...

All I can say is WOW..This drug is not one I would have ever thought about!!

LMS

[truthdiscern]

I about fell over this morning when I heard on CNN during the interview with the Nurse, who was called by Michael on Fathers Day trying to get this Drug (Diprivan- or Propofol) I have only seen this drug used in a anesthesia situation..or when patient is already intubated (like when in ICU)..What would possess Michael to want to play with meds like this..and why in the world would Dr. Murray allow this to go on!!??

Here's some info on that drug:
http://www.rxlist.com/diprivan-drug.htm

Here's list of Indications:

Table 3. Indications for DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion


Indication Approved Patient Population
Initiation and maintenance of Monitored Anesthesia Care (MAC) sedation Adults only
Combined sedation and regional anesthesia Adults only (See PRECAUTIONS)
Induction of General Anesthesia Patients ≥ 3 years of age
Mainenance of General Anesthesia Patients ≥ 2 months of age
Intensive Care Unit (ICU) sedation of intubated, mechanically ventilated patients Adults only

Man oh Man..This goes way beyond the boundaries for Drug Abuse..This was "Roulette" and accident bound to happen..and yikes Dr. Murray should be ashamed to take part in this without proper equipment...

If you read the above link..(its for Professional Information) youcan see this drug cannot be given by oneself..as its onset is within seconds..not minutes...

All I can say is WOW..This drug is not one I would have ever thought about!!

LMS

the part that is strange...is that for it to get him thru an entire nights sleep as he wanted for insomnia..that it would need to be on a drip..fast acting and over quickly...that has me a little baffled

[truthdiscern]

I disagree. MJ fought tooth and nail to keep part of neverland. He could have let the last 25% go but he didn't.Somehow every time it was in danger he pulled something out of the hat. He would love to be memorialized there with thousands of fans able to join in.

This all happened pretty quickly after the will was shown to the family as well. he may have given instructions for this

Good morning old friend...nice to see you again...truthdiscerner from the old me trial days..

[Scampi]

Good morning all :seeya:

Love the "Athie" :)

I know it was 30 minutes prior to calling 911. We do know that he said he administered CPR for at least an hour. What's missing in the timeline is what time did he get there and in what condition was MJ in when he got there.

What's puzzling to me and someone correct me if I have this wrong -- is did he not say that MJ asked him to sit by him while he slept? How long was he sitting there before MJ showed signs of distress. According to the medical literature I have read on this Propofol -- it ONLY TAKES 40 SECONDS for it to kick in so these dots are just not connecting for me.


The "athie" is because I feel like I have known you forever, we go waaaaay back Athie. :wub:

Well, here is the latest theory, spoken by Contessa somebody on MSNBC just now. That Michael was trying to get out of his contract for the 50 shows, by running himself down and being hospitalized. I'm not buying that one.

I am disturbed by reports that this drug propol (spelling) and lidocaine may have been found in his room, along with an IV kit. If all this is true, Murray may be more involved then his attorneys are admitting.

Michael's liver testing will tell the story.

I hope that the family is following Michael's wishes regarding his funeral.

MSNBC is reporting that the last will and testament will be made public sometime today.

[incidentally]

Good morning all :seeya:

Love the "Athie" :)

I know it was 30 minutes prior to calling 911. We do know that he said he administered CPR for at least an hour. What's missing in the timeline is what time did he get there and in what condition was MJ in when he got there.

snipped

Good morning, Athena. Could you please explain what you mean in the part of your post I bolded? What part of Scampi's post were you referring to with the answer. When you say "I know..", whatever it refers to, is it confirmed or just part of the many different reports we have heard and read.

Thank you,

tally

[Lyndawitha"Y]

the part that is strange...is that for it to get him thru an entire nights sleep as he wanted for insomnia..that it would need to be on a drip..fast acting and over quickly...that has me a little baffled

Truth...if I may call you that...I am willing to bet the farm that IF this was indeed the drug involved...that the delay in contacting 911 was to enable to cleaning up of the scene..you just have to know he likely was on that drip throughout the night..and he suddenly went into Resp. Arrest, or seizures..and I dont believe for one minute this Doctor was all by himself doing this procedure...There had to have been people around to assist him..That household had a "Staff" to maintain it didnt he, all those employee's who have signed that "Confidentiality Agreement"...

Boy, the Old Song " What Goes On Behind Closed Doors" is an understatement...!!!

LMS:ohmy:

[who_is_it]

Good morning all :seeya:

Love the "Athie" :)

I know it was 30 minutes prior to calling 911. We do know that he said he administered CPR for at least an hour. What's missing in the timeline is what time did he get there and in what condition was MJ in when he got there.

What's puzzling to me and someone correct me if I have this wrong -- is did he not say that MJ asked him to sit by him while he slept? How long was he sitting there before MJ showed signs of distress. According to the medical literature I have read on this Propofol -- it ONLY TAKES 40 SECONDS for it to kick in so these dots are just not connecting for me.

After I've read this latest news on TMZ this morning I asked myself the same like you: Why was he sitting next to his bed?

"Interestingly, Propofol burns and the drug Lidocaine is used to reduce the pain associated with the Propofol injection. As we first reported, Lidocaine was found near Jackson's body."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/michael-jackson-propofol-lidocaine-overdose-criminal/

--> near his body means in the bed / next to the bed

It could be he got this Propofol shot, didn't feel well, asked the doctor to watch him, took Lidocaine... or it was already to late.

It would make sense that he got the Propofol shot but the doc didn't want to call 911 that no one else realizes MJ got the anesthesia drug. Therefore he didn't call help earlier.

Btw, is it normal that one does CPR for an hour?

[incidentally]

Good morning incidentally. The Dr's lawyer on the talk shows has said that a 911 call was delayed by 30 minutes because the Dr. did not know MJ's home address and he went searching for a staff member

Am I answering your question?

Yes.

Thanks, Athena.

[truthdiscern]

Truth...if I may call you that...I am willing to bet the farm that IF this was indeed the drug involved...that the delay in contacting 911 was to enable to cleaning up of the scene..you just have to know he likely was on that drip throughout the night..and he suddenly went into Resp. Arrest, or seizures..and I dont believe for one minute this Doctor was all by himself doing this procedure...There had to have been people around to assist him..That household had a "Staff" to maintain it didnt he, all those employee's who have signed that "Confidentiality Agreement"...

Boy, the Old Song " What Goes On Behind Closed Doors" is an understatement...!!!

LMS:ohmy:
most probably why the dr had spent the night..to monitor MJ during sleep...I think I read that he had spent the night before there as well (not sure about that)..speculating here that this was not the first night the drug was used

[who_is_it]

Truth...if I may call you that...I am willing to bet the farm that IF this was indeed the drug involved...that the delay in contacting 911 was to enable to cleaning up of the scene..you just have to know he likely was on that drip throughout the night..and he suddenly went into Resp. Arrest, or seizures..and I dont believe for one minute this Doctor was all by himself doing this procedure...There had to have been people around to assist him..That household had a "Staff" to maintain it didnt he, all those employee's who have signed that "Confidentiality Agreement"...

Boy, the Old Song " What Goes On Behind Closed Doors" is an understatement...!!!

LMS:ohmy:

@ Athena and you: Why do you think he got the shot in the night? Could be he got the shot in the morning. A (demerol) shot IN THE MORNING was the VERY FIRST what was reported after Michael's death.

I also can't imagine that there was nobody else in the house. It's not logical that there was no one around who would have had known the address or had a mobile.

[truthdiscern]

@ Athena and you: Why do you think he got the shot in the night? Could be he got the shot in the morning. A (demerol) shot IN THE MORNING was the VERY FIRST what was reported after Michael's death.

I also can't imagine that there was nobody else in the house. It's not logical that there was no one around who would have had known the address or had a mobile.

perhaps he was on the anethesia all night..and then got the demerol shot which stopped the heart...either way...reckless...especially with an md nearby...
on a side note..I saw a copy of the letter which the dr sent to his patients saying that an incredible opportunity had presented itself and he would be temporarily leaving his practice...if he had only known what was in front of him..wow

[VC2]

aparently LE has developed plans for the 30 car entourage as per HLN, met with family yesterday

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Good morning Lynda. But if the drug only takes 40 seconds to kick in why would he go into distress after being on it all night ??

Go to the link..oh never mind..here it is..it explains how it is used..

http://www.rxlist.com/diprivan-drug.htm

In the Intensive Care Unit (ICU), DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion can be administered to intubated, mechanically ventilated adult patients to provide continuous sedation and control of stress responses only by persons skilled in the medical management of critically ill patients and trained in cardiovascular resuscitation and airway management

Anthena, this is a very complicated drug to use, and simply not something that is done in a home...alot of monitoring equipment is needed..to monitor heart, respirations, blood gases, electrolyte balancing...Potassium, BUN etc..as electrolyte imbalance cause cardiac dysrhythmias, and respirations can easily stop or become an issue with Acidosis etc.... Also this drug Drip has to be done with pump or volumetic control to be titrated according to effects wanted.....This is Not a Drug meant for quick fixes..to get a good nights sleep...LOL at least in my opinion along with any other medical professional I know.

LMS

[who_is_it]

Lynda is the one who said he was on the IV all night; I don't know and had a question for her as well.

Another thought I had -- isn't this Tohme Tohme guy a Dr also ? Had he been there possibly prior to Dr Murray arriving??

I think TMZ has posted BIG BS what "Tohme Tohme" is concerned. He was his manager and spokesperson... and has a Dr degree -- no Dr med.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

@ Athena and you: Why do you think he got the shot in the night? Could be he got the shot in the morning. A (demerol) shot IN THE MORNING was the VERY FIRST what was reported after Michael's death.

I also can't imagine that there was nobody else in the house. It's not logical that there was no one around who would have had known the address or had a mobile.

I think that is the problem...what is reported isnt always the truth..thats why I dont assume things I hear, read or is reported are actually factual...I do hold a little skepticism..especially knowing the sources of some of those facts..

Remember..I am only commenting on the drug Diprivan, because it has been brought out..and I also said IF it was used..I supplied a link ( professionals use) that does explain the drug indications, use, administration, side efects, adverse effects..etc.....

Once again, this information is only to explain what might have happened if this particular Drug was involved in the death of Michael..I wasnt there, as none of us were, so it's still yet another theory..

LMS:rolleyes:

[NikkiG77058]

Good morning everyone. Please read Coldwater's sticky and let's keep this forum open.

Athie, this is the million dollar question. Why was Murray there that morning? Was it a routine visit or had he been called because Michael was not feeling well. What time did he arrive and how soon after was 911 called.

I still believe this doctor injected Michael with something, that morning.


ITA, Regina!! I also believe the reason for the delay in calling 911 is he was busy trying to get rid of the evidence of the IV. Seems he may have missed an important element - the Properal or whatever it is called. IMO

[who_is_it]

source of my post above "in the morning":

"A close member of Michael Jackson's family has told us Jackson received a daily injection of a synthetic narcotic similar to morphine -- Demerol -- and yesterday he received a shot at 11:30 AM".
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/jackson-family-demerol-shot-caused-death/

(In "my" storyline of speculation I replace Demerol by the other drug.)

[truthdiscern]

You are correct. I do think most of us know that there are many conflicting reports being thrown around so all speculation at this point.

The Jackson's lawyer did say last night on LKL that the Jacksons have received the autopsy results from the private one they requested but they have not yet reviewed it.
well..haven't yet reviewed the second autopsy report is suspect...my bet is immediately upon receiving it

[*Serenity*]

The "athie" is because I feel like I have known you forever, we go waaaaay back Athie. :wub:

Well, here is the latest theory, spoken by Contessa somebody on MSNBC just now. That Michael was trying to get out of his contract for the 50 shows, by running himself down and being hospitalized. I'm not buying that one.

I am disturbed by reports that this drug propol (spelling) and lidocaine may have been found in his room, along with an IV kit. If all this is true, Murray may be more involved then his attorneys are admitting.

Michael's liver testing will tell the story.

I hope that the family is following Michael's wishes regarding his funeral.

MSNBC is reporting that the last will and testament will be made public sometime today.


This video clip has Michael live and he states how he does not like going on tour-- he goes through hell. The producer requests a re-take asking him to be positive about going on tour. Another tid bit from this clip is he was afraid of dogs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYsc27R2DqM&feature=related

[who_is_it]

video Lou Ferrigno:
MJ's Trainer: He Could Still Walk the Walk

"(...) in great shape (...)"

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/mjs-trainer-he-could-still-walk-the-walk/

I can't remember that I saw this article posted here or on TMZ on June 30th. Can't imagine that I've overlooked it. Did anyone of you see this video before?

[VC2]

According to this article, and others dated 11/08, MJ doesn't even own a stake in NL anymore:

The fairy tale is really over now.

Michael Jackson has turned the deed to his financially plagued Neverland Ranch over to a company that he has a partial stake in, effectively ending his reign as the King of the House That Pop Built.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b68573_Michael_Jackson_Lets_Neverland_Fly_Away.htm l

because he owns 24% of the company he still owns 24% of Neverland as it was explained by the company somewhere after his death.

IMO

[Lyndawitha"Y]

source of my post above "in the morning":

"A close member of Michael Jackson's family has told us Jackson received a daily injection of a synthetic narcotic similar to morphine -- Demerol -- and yesterday he received a shot at 11:30 AM".
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/jackson-family-demerol-shot-caused-death/

(In "my" storyline of speculation I replace Demerol by the other drug.)

I got what you meant..except this drug Diprivan or Propofol is not administered asan injection..but in a IV Drip...

As for the Demerol Injections he possibily got daily as described by Jackson family member, was what he thought he knew of the routine..however..IF Diprivan was used???why need an injection for pain at all..as you are basically under...as in sedated already??

See what I mean about facts that have been repeated?? However, I do think lab results will sort it out in the end..

LMS ;-)

[Scampi]

ITA, Regina!! I also believe the reason for the delay in calling 911 is he was busy trying to get rid of the evidence of the IV. Seems he may have missed an important element - the Properal or whatever it is called. IMO

Hi Nikki, LTNS!! I want to know exactly what time Murray arrived at the residence that day, or if he was there all night long.

There had to be a very good reason why Murray's car was impounded by LE. Perhaps LE observed IV equipment or other critical evidence in the car?

I would also love to know if an IV pole was found by the bed or in the room.

[who_is_it]

I got what you meant..except this drug Diprivan or Propofol is not administered asan injection..but in a IV Drip...

As for the Demerol Injections he possibily got daily as described by Jackson family member, was what he thought he knew of the routine..however..IF Diprivan was used???why need an injection for pain at all..as you are basically under...as in sedated already??

See what I mean about facts that have been repeated?? However, I do think lab results will sort it out in the end..

LMS ;-)

@ Why the injection for pain? -- He was dancing the whole night before.

"'We would just sit there with our jaws open — it was awesome," Holley says. "He could still do everything ... The only difference now was that he would sometimes talk about how it made him sore."
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

[dinojen]

WOW, guess Neverland is gearing up... they are bringing in the porta potty's..

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/neverland-ranch-porta-potty/



Was just thinking of what a mess the area was up by Neverland Ranch during his trial.. with the fans and the media.. can you even begin to imagine what it is going to be like up there now.. two lane road.. with thousands of people trying to get up it plus the media.. :ohmy: Unbelievable .. truly do wonder what Jackson would be thinking.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

@ Why the injection for pain? -- He was dancing the whole night before.

"'We would just sit there with our jaws open — it was awesome," Holley says. "He could still do everything ... The only difference now was that he would sometimes talk about how it made him sore."
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

Never mind who_is_it, you arent reading my entire post..just jumping on a word or question...One doesnt need analgesic when put out by this drug..they can even do minor surgury under the influence of this drug Diprivan..anyway...I also disagree with waking up a patient to give them their "Sleeping Pills"..course thats just me?? LOL

LMS:laugh:

[VC2]

Well then I'm confused and this confuses me even more. How can he have retained a "small percentage" of ownership but he turned over the title and sold a part of it for $35M and he had already owed $23.5?


"One thing is certain: Jackson only retained a small percentage of ownership in the property at the time of his death. The ranch has been in and out of foreclosure proceedings since 2007 — with last minute deals cut all around to protect it from going into auction. According to Wikipedia, on November 11, 2008 Jackson transferred the title to Sycamore Valley Ranch Company LLC — a joint venture between him and Colony Capital LLC. In return, it appears that he was able to sell an unknown proportion of the property right for $35 million — cash the singer desperately needed to pay off additional debts.

http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/06/26/what-will-happen-to-michael-jacksons-neverland-ranch/

yes but he still owns a portion that Sycamore Valley Ranch has. 24% is the number they talked about.

He transferred the deed to them. He has a stake in it and.or a stake in CC LLC who along with him at the time owns Neverland. It is convoluted but basically it means he kept a small stake in Neverland and i am betting a veto power over what was doen with it too but thats just a guess.

It was a vehicle to get him the cash he needed, stop the auction but still keep some ownership of it

IMO

[who_is_it]

This video clip has Michael live and he states how he does not like going on tour-- he goes through hell. The producer requests a re-take asking him to be positive about going on tour. Another tid bit from this clip is he was afraid of dogs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYsc27R2DqM&feature=related

But THIS TIME he was determined, focused, he wanted to take the world back. See the links I've already posted before:

"Jackson had been preparing to take the world back, Holley says, and during the singer's final night, he finally knew he was ready."
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

"'He just told me how happy he was and that things were working out the way he wanted,' DiLeo said."
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-jackson-rehearsal27-2009jun27,0,4699249.story

"He was energetic, passionate, diligent, prepared, excited and an effective leader," Caswell says, adding that Jackson was an inspiration to his crew."

"There was a sense we had actually seen this comeback that was so important to him," Woodroffe says. He says he wasn't sure Jackson would have lasted through the tour's March 6 finale, "but he would have made it to the start of the race."
http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2009-06-28-jackson-concerts_N.htm

Many, many more people quoted in the articles...

----
Could you save the video on the "links thread"? That would be nice!

[VC2]

Wow -- Ted Rowlands, reporting it is possible that MJ may have not been taking prescription drugs prior to his death.

well well well.... very interesting if true, would fit his change of health to good rather than terrible, his ability to do the tour etc.

i didnt expect they would find massive amounts of drugs in him, perhaps as i have said a maintenance dose or just a dose needed for pain (i.e. legitimate) or a one time overdose rather than a body in terrible health for recent continued abuse of drugs (i know he did before but i mean now)

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I don't know what to say except I think Michael would be appalled by all of this. I wonder if his children were consulted or asked what they think of this. I know they are young, but still - IMO - they should be included in making these decisions.

I am sure they will include his children.

But I don't think MJ would be appalled at all by this. I think MJ had moved on and was ready to meet and greet thousands upon thousands who were coming to see his tour. He was ready. He no longer was shying away... he was right in the thick of it and enjoying it all.

Michael Jackson was back and even better than before from what has been said by the ones who worked with him in rehearsal.

imo

[dinojen]

Just reading some of the comments related to the article and one poster asked "Can TMZ also tell us the color of the toilet paper?" :laugh:

LOL.. give them a few mins.. I'm sure they will and probably what scent they used inside of them... to deodorize them..:rolleyes:

Might even have Jackson's crest on the paper.. wouldn't put it past the producer of this extravaganza...

[Lyndawitha"Y]

yes but he still owns a portion that Sycamore Valley Ranch has. 24% is the number they talked about.

He transferred the deed to them. He has a stake in it and.or a stake in CC LLC who along with him at the time owns Neverland. It is convoluted but basically it means he kept a small stake in Neverland and i am betting a veto power over what was doen with it too but thats just a guess.

It was a vehicle to get him the cash he needed, stop the auction but still keep some ownership of it

IMO

VC2, I do believe I posted a link to this, over the weekend..and your word..Convoluted is an understatement..LOL..This was all done in the eleveth hour before that auction..and by Jackson signing over the deed, yet keep a stake in it..kept this property from being attached by any of his creditors...no doubt the brainy idea of one of his lawyers, and also able to have some say in the final outcome of Neverland Ranch too..Best of both worlds eh?..

LMS

[Lyndawitha"Y]

In that case I'd say he has pretty good lawyers. :wink:

.......:laugh: Is there such a specialty in law for "Financial Bailouts"..milking every last penny out of any asset?? I'll just bet there is and they all worked for Michael...

LMS

[*Serenity*]

[B]


*****SNIPPED FOR B-WIDTH*********

Many, many more people quoted in the articles...

----
Could you save the video on the "links thread"? That would be nice!

Here is another compilation that I posted late last night and I will also post on the links thread. I think it is the 3rd funniest video where he is in a grocery store and it is funny.




Michaels Funniest Moments Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3BZq...eature=related

Michaels Funniest Moments Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYsc2...eature=related

Michaels Funniest Moments Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMYvW5JAIrA&NR=1

LaToya speaks about Michael in 1994 (yikes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfUC8...eature=related

Janet about Michael 2001 (short but sweet)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q9vV...eature=related


Michael Jackson-- Beat It Interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lfk2n-iRDU&feature=fvw

Michael Jackson -- Jet Interview (relaxed interview)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCKxPWIyOuI&NR=1

Michael Jackson (Bill Clinton Gala)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ubC1...eature=related

[who_is_it]

Never mind who_is_it, you arent reading my entire post..just jumping on a word or question...One doesnt need analgesic when put out by this drug..they can even do minor surgury under the influence of this drug Diprivan..anyway...I also disagree with waking up a patient to give them their "Sleeping Pills"..course thats just me?? LOL

LMS:laugh:

It's correct that I didn't follow your entire post because a) my native language isn't English (plus I never lived in an English speaking country) and b) (or in consequence) I'm not familiar with pharmaceutical and medical terminology.

I looked up in a dictionary what "analgesic" means.

You don't know his sleeping habits. Specially artists sometimes work until the wee hours. Maybe he did so, couldn't sleep, asked for a "downer" -- in my words -- as he wanted to sleep during day time.

I'm going to re-read your original post.

[who_is_it]

Here is another compilation that I posted late last night and I will also post on the links thread. I think it is the 3rd funniest video where he is in a grocery store and it is funny.

<snipped>



Links didn't work... but thank you. I'll find them.

[who_is_it]

Wow -- Ted Rowlands, reporting it is possible that MJ may have not been taking prescription drugs prior to his death.

Who's Ted Rowlands?

[*Serenity*]

Links didn't work... but thank you. I'll find them.

Hmmm... strange.
Some work and some do not and all of them work from my email.
NEWHO.. if you search youtube using the headlines all of them
line up for you. Worth watching and short clips.

[*Serenity*]

Who's Ted Rowlands?

Another talking head. LOL
Way better than NG or DD......... IMO
Plus he's not bad on the eyes either.

[Great Dane]

We don't know for sure as that has not been confirmed - but the saddest part would be if he wasn't taking the prescription drugs that he died because he just couldn't sleep :(

That would be sad. Perhaps the upcoming tour was weighing on his mind, all of the details etc....he was if you recall hesitant initially about doing the tour, but in essence needed to do so for the financial gain....

[vonna]

Good morning all :seeya:

Love the "Athie" :)

I know it was 30 minutes prior to calling 911. We do know that he said he administered CPR for at least an hour. What's missing in the timeline is what time did he get there and in what condition was MJ in when he got there.

What's puzzling to me and someone correct me if I have this wrong -- is did he not say that MJ asked him to sit by him while he slept? How long was he sitting there before MJ showed signs of distress. According to the medical literature I have read on this Propofol -- it ONLY TAKES 40 SECONDS for it to kick in so these dots are just not connecting for me.

I am amazed at how many people purport to know what Michael Jackson would approve of or want.

[who_is_it]

You know I said this to you many years ago -- you understand English better than some Americans. :wink:

Thank you, Athena, taught by people like you!

:rose:

[CinderL.]

Never mind who_is_it, you arent reading my entire post..just jumping on a word or question...One doesnt need analgesic when put out by this drug..they can even do minor surgury under the influence of this drug Diprivan..anyway...I also disagree with waking up a patient to give them their "Sleeping Pills"..course thats just me?? LOL

LMS:laugh:

LOL. Waking you up to give you a sleeping pill. That is funny. :laugh:

[who_is_it]

Again something which I already asked myself some days ago:

Coroner Returns to Jackson House for Drugs

"We're told the LAPD retrieved several prescription bottles from Jackson's house ... but the plastic bags by no means were filled with pills."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/coroner-goes-back-to-jackson-house/

The Jackson family had been at his house with vans before the coroner went into the house again. The scene could have been manipulated. How could the drugs they allegedly found be evidence?

[magnolia]

Two thoughts:

I remember MJ saying he never wanted to return there. That too much had happened through the trail and it didn't hold any special meaning for him anymore...so I'm surprised that he's being returned there.

And, I think Joe Jackson already slammed his son. He said something like "we going to make sure they (meaining the kids) get the education they should have had." I heard an implication in his words. I'm not a big MJ supporter but I do think homeschooling was the way to go.

[PBJMOM4]

Again something which I already asked myself some days ago:

Coroner Returns to Jackson House for Drugs

"We're told the LAPD retrieved several prescription bottles from Jackson's house ... but the plastic bags by no means were filled with pills."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/coroner-goes-back-to-jackson-house/

The Jackson family had been at his house with vans before the coroner went into the house again. The scene could have been manipulated. How could the drugs they allegedly found be evidence?


I'm guessing if they found any drugs on the FIRST visit to the home, they are documented as such. {being found PRIOR to the families visit}
I guess it depends WHAT was found on the second visit to the home.

[who_is_it]

I'm guessing if they found any drugs on the FIRST visit to the home, they are documented as such. {being found PRIOR to the families visit}
I guess it depends WHAT was found on the second visit to the home.

Yes, what they've found prior to the family's visit must be documented... but whatever they were searching for on the second visit can't be evidence IMO.

[who_is_it]

The Will is on TMZ (pdf-file)...

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/michael-jacksons-last-will-diana-ross-mentioned/

[VC2]

Two thoughts:

I remember MJ saying he never wanted to return there. That too much had happened through the trail and it didn't hold any special meaning for him anymore...so I'm surprised that he's being returned there.

And, I think Joe Jackson already slammed his son. He said something like "we going to make sure they (meaining the kids) get the education they should have had." I heard an implication in his words. I'm not a big MJ supporter but I do think homeschooling was the way to go.

after a trauma it takes a while for you to feel differently but it does happen. I totally understood his feelings about neverland after the trial.

When i was 16 a few months after i got my license we were on a family vacation and i totalled the family car rolling it a few times. No injuries but when the insurance guy came out to speak to dad (we had to get another car to go home of course ) i burst into tears and said i was never driving again and threw my license in the fireplace. Luckily dad got it out, took about 6 months before i could get behind a wheel but now i love it again.

IMO that was sort of how MJ must have felt, he was betrayed there, lies told, the town had seen him humiliated etc. but once he got himself together he felt differently.

Otherwise imo he would have sold it outright for cash.

[CinderL.]

Yes, what they've found prior to the family's visit must be documented... but whatever they were searching for on the second visit can't be evidence IMO.

I am really surprised that they found anything after the family had been there.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I just realized that one of CNN's talking heads listed Eric Philips, from Austrailia..also has that disease..Vitiligo...I just compared his picture from this one:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/articles/2007/12/18/1197740229199.html

to the one on the CNN site:
http://www.gogomag.com/talkingheads/cnn_cnn_m.htm


It is truly amazing what makeup can do, eh?

LMS

[missinglink]

Again something which I already asked myself some days ago:

Coroner Returns to Jackson House for Drugs

"We're told the LAPD retrieved several prescription bottles from Jackson's house ... but the plastic bags by no means were filled with pills."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/coroner-goes-back-to-jackson-house/

The Jackson family had been at his house with vans before the coroner went into the house again. The scene could have been manipulated. How could the drugs they allegedly found be evidence?

Well, the way I see it, I don't think it has been labeled as a "crime scene". JMO. And if the prescription bottles had Michael's name or others on them, they can follow the source, the RX number, etc. Probably the prescription itself, and not the number of pills were what they were looking for. JMO. Also, if later it is determined to be a crime scene, the evidence will be questioned. But lots of times things are taken from a house later, for example the Casey Anthony case. Things were taken from her parents home months after she was arrested for murder, and listed as evidence.

[PBJMOM4]

Yes, what they've found prior to the family's visit must be documented... but whatever they were searching for on the second visit can't be evidence IMO.

I agree with you, will be a nightmare if this turns into a criminal investigation.

[magnolia]

after a trauma it takes a while for you to feel differently but it does happen. I totally understood his feelings about neverland after the trial.

When i was 16 a few months after i got my license we were on a family vacation and i totalled the family car rolling it a few times. No injuries but when the insurance guy came out to speak to dad (we had to get another car to go home of course ) i burst into tears and said i was never driving again and threw my license in the fireplace. Luckily dad got it out, took about 6 months before i could get behind a wheel but now i love it again.

IMO that was sort of how MJ must have felt, he was betrayed there, lies told, the town had seen him humiliated etc. but once he got himself together he felt differently.

Otherwise imo he would have sold it outright for cash.

So you think MJ asked to be bury at Neverland. I'm not so sure he got over it.

[who_is_it]

Londell McMillan, attorney for Katherine and Joe Jackson, told CNN: "I wonder why anyone would make a comment about something that they don't have much knowledge about. They didn't see the drug administered. It's again because of the Michael Jackson factor."

[KatieLady]

The Will is on TMZ (pdf-file)...

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/michael-jacksons-last-will-diana-ross-mentioned/

My will has more to it than that :ohmy: I wonder if there is a newer one somewhere?

[who_is_it]

So you think MJ asked to be bury at Neverland. I'm not so sure he got over it.

It's not my opinion... but TMZ already started to spin the "manslaughter scenario" -- maybe just to attract readers.

[SDMermaid]

Nope you aren't alone. I won't go to any funeral if it's an open casket it's too creepy for me I rather remember the person when they were alive.


I don't like the idea of "viewings" or an open casket for anyone...

I realize that I am most likely in the minority with my feelings...

moo

[who_is_it]

My will has more to it than that :ohmy: I wonder if there is a newer one somewhere?

I don't think there's a newer one based on what was reported during the last days.

[SDMermaid]

I wouldn't call a $100,000 RX bill a so called drug use. If MJ was so healthy why such a high bill?


RIP MIchael. No one knows definitely about your so called drug use.
It's all speculation.
I respected and loved you in life and I honor you in death.

You will be missed more than any celebrity. Because you were larger than life and so was your talent.


I always wanted to be the girl in the video 'The Way You Make ME Feel'

[KatieLady]

I don't think there's a newer one based on what was reported during the last days.

Not at all the kind of will I would have expected IMO However, his wishes are probably spelled out in his Family Trust. I wonder if we will see that at some point?

[Citygirl]

Yes, what they've found prior to the family's visit must be documented... but whatever they were searching for on the second visit can't be evidence IMO.


Maybe it can..look at all the stuff that was taken from the Anthony's home months after the OC was in jail..months after.

[missinglink]

My will has more to it than that :ohmy: I wonder if there is a newer one somewhere?

I thought it was clearly spelled out. And it was the right thing to do to have the trust...saves on taxes.

The co-executors will get a nice sum of money for their work.

[*Serenity*]

Two thoughts:

I remember MJ saying he never wanted to return there. That too much had happened through the trail and it didn't hold any special meaning for him anymore...so I'm surprised that he's being returned there.

And, I think Joe Jackson already slammed his son. He said something like "we going to make sure they (meaining the kids) get the education they should have had." I heard an implication in his words. I'm not a big MJ supporter but I do think homeschooling was the way to go.

In one of Michaels interviews he talked about having to be home schooled due to the chaos he and the brothers experienced going to school. After watching numerous clips last night it made me stop and think about how he had to be isolated. He could no longer go out in public without bodyguards due to the massive crowds that would chase him. He didn't know anything about everyday normal life at all, he even stated that numerous times. He didn't really know much about friendships either. He did name a few in one interview that he could trust to tell anything, as I recall one mentioned was Diana Ross.

[incidentally]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/01/AR2009070100165.html

Jackson's will cuts out ex-wife Debbie Rowe

[SDMermaid]

Yeah I feel bad for the dancers too.

me and my oldest son was watching all of his videos on youtube today BTW my son is now a huge MJ fan he is 19..anyway I watched the dancers for his upcoming tour and I got to thinking I felt so bad for them also they had the opportunity to work with a huge Icon a once in a lifetime thing..they were so happy and in tears when they got picked..I just kinda felt bad for them plus they did spend some time with him right up to the night before he passed away:sad:

[who_is_it]

"An entertainment attorney who had worked for Jackson produced a 7-year-old will that named him and a music executive as executors."
(...)
"The document was produced by John Branca, a lawyer who began representing Jackson in 1980. Branca and Jackson parted ways in 2006 in a disagreement over other advisors, but on June 17 -- eight days before his death -- Jackson signed a letter once again retaining Branca as his lawyer, according to a source familiar with the relationship."
(...)
"(...)John McClain, a founder of Interscope Records and an associate of Jackson since his youth, the source said."

"The paradox is that Michael is one of the brightest and most talented people I've ever known," he added. "At the same time, he has made some of the worst choices in advisors in the history of music."

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-jackson-legal1-2009jul01,1,7972399.story

The article says Branca was on CNN.

@ those who watched: What is your impression about him as a person? Good or bad guy?

Does the music executive McClain belong to the Dileo / Phillips camp?

[incidentally]

http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0701_mj_will_wm.pdf

[*Serenity*]

I wouldn't call a $100,000 RX bill a so called drug use. If MJ was so healthy why such a high bill?

This has not panned out to be a true rumor... IMO ...Unless you have
a source I am not aware of.

We don't know if that was his personal account or if that was
one of his charity accounts. The way I see things-- as of right now--
most everything being reported is either half-truth or non-truth and
a lot of specualtion due to NOT knowing the real story.

:)

[SDMermaid]

It was nice to say but I think they will have plenty of money the fans should send the money to an animal charity in MJ's name.

Has Justin T said anymore about doing his tour I am guessing no since they are telling everyone how to get their refund..he said something the other night that was very sweet and said if you got a ticket and refund send it to MJ kids...wont happen but thought it was sweet of him

[aproudmom]

Neither do I aproudmom but I won't waste a moment of my life grieving over someone who cared less about his own life and many fans, some of whom cared enough to take thier own lives because of him. How very very pathetic that one person could have that kind of influence on some. I do not know how he could ever rest in peace if he knew what he caused. Selfish indulgence is the only answer.

what some took their own life his fans?

[who_is_it]

Not at all the kind of will I would have expected IMO However, his wishes are probably spelled out in his Family Trust. I wonder if we will see that at some point?

I don't know much about wills..., LOL.

My concern is: Are the executors "good people"? If they belong to the camp Dileo/Phillips I believe: yes.

I would also be interested to know for which particular past music deals the music executive played a role and advised Michael.

[PBJMOM4]

I just realized that one of CNN's talking heads listed Eric Philips, from Austrailia..also has that disease..Vitiligo...I just compared his picture from this one:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/articles/2007/12/18/1197740229199.html

to the one on the CNN site:
http://www.gogomag.com/talkingheads/cnn_cnn_m.htm


It is truly amazing what makeup can do, eh?

LMS

I'm confused!
Are you saying these 2 pictures are of the same person?
Because there are 2 different reporters.
One is Lee Thomas and the other is Eric Phillips.
I thought they were 2 differnt guys ?!

[Scampi]

Yes, what they've found prior to the family's visit must be documented... but whatever they were searching for on the second visit can't be evidence IMO.

I have to disagree with you here Who. I would bet that LE had probable cause to request a search warrant from a Judge, to return to the home and retrieve that evidence.

They did not just waltz in there and take things out, imo.

Any evidence gathered can and will be used in any subsequent criminal trial, imo.

I think they got the probable cause thru interviewing those at that house during Michael's last days.

[who_is_it]

--------------

Did the dancers get a chance to perform with him at the rehearsals?

Go back to my post #103 on this thread where you find 3 links how progressed the rehearsals already were.

[GentleBreeze]

It was nice to say but I think they will have plenty of money the fans should send the money to an animal charity in MJ's name.

I think they should send a part of the refund to one of MJs favorite charities for needy or sick children.

imo

[SDMermaid]

I agree with some of your statement. MJ was an artist but some fans really take it to the next level and worship him like he was a god. I was a fan in my teens but not really since 1989 and after all the surgeries and hanging with boys it just got to weird for me seeing an adult act like a 10 yr on a daily bases. The media takes a story and runs it into the ground. I can't turn on the TV without someone saying something about MJ and just wait until the cause of death comes the media will have a field day:scared:


Please give me a break. I just saw on HLN that it was said that Michael Jackson was larger than life. What is up with that? There is no one on this earth that is larger than life. NONE. The tabloid media, HLN, CNN, FOX and MSNBC are milking the story of MJ to the n'th degree. "larger than life", what exactly does that mean. Does that put him in the category of Jesus Christ on Earth? Where are these people comming from? Apparently Pluto. Not from this bloggers perspective. MJ was a talented young child who was never allowed to grow up to be a man. Maybe it should be said that it takes a man or woman to be larger than life. Certainly not a child in a "cough cough" man's body. Less than one tenth of one percent of the population of this world care one wit about who or what MJ was. The blogesphere and Media is making him something he was not.

In this bloggers opinion, Michael Jackson was nothing more or nothing less than a talented "Star" who died of an overdose of drugs with so many others, i.e. "The Real King Elvis", Marilyn Monroe, Heath Ledger, Jim Morrison, Brad Renfro, River Phoenix, Frankie Lymon, Hank Williams, Chris Farley, Jimmie Hendrix, Jim Belushi, and the great Janis Joplin. How many more do you wish me to name? They pissed their lives away for the love of the bad fruit. Do I feel sorry? Hell no I don't. They had their choices. No one shoved that crap down their throats or in their noses or in their veins. The did it to themselves. Why would I feel sorry like the rest of the bleeding hearts out there who want to memoralize a drug addict and a pedophile. Oh, I guess the devil made them do it. Well so be it, no loss to me. I just don't give a damn. In the grand scheme of things my life nor yours will change one lick unless you are obsessed with the fallen "King of Pop".

[GentleBreeze]

I have to disagree with you here Who. I would bet that LE had probable cause to request a search warrant from a Judge, to return to the home and retrieve that evidence.

They did not just waltz in there and take things out, imo.

Any evidence gathered can and will be used in any subsequent criminal trial, imo.

I think they got the probable cause thru interviewing those at that house during Michael's last days.

In any death investigation the ME can have LE go back and retrieve certain things from the death scene if they think it will help them with the manner and cause of death or if they are trying to rule certain things out.

imo

[who_is_it]

I have to disagree with you here Who. I would bet that LE had probable cause to request a search warrant from a Judge, to return to the home and retrieve that evidence.

They did not just waltz in there and take things out, imo.

Any evidence gathered can and will be used in any subsequent criminal trial, imo.

I think they got the probable cause thru interviewing those at that house during Michael's last days.

Yes, for sure there must have been a search warrant.

Nevertheless it wasn't the same scene anymore like at death time.... but I'm sure there are any forensic methods to preserve traces and find out what has been there before, what has been moved etc.

[aproudmom]

Let the circus begin.. this is so pathetic.. just had the news on and now which I don't really find that hard to believe because both of these fools have ego's as big as god knows what.. Good old Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are now arguing over who is going to officiate over the services..:rolleyes:

Is this a memorial service or pay per view prime time infomercial...

It's being reported just this morning.. first a memorial at the Staples center in LA.. from there a procession some two and a half hours away to Neverland where he will lay in "display" and then Sunday a "private" memorial service for just the family...

This whole thing is just to bizarre. I'm all for memorializing someone in their death.. but this is just downright NUTS... JMVHO

4th of July weekend and they are going to motorcade some two and a half hours up the crazy freeways in so. CA up to Santa Barbara.. I bet the people living near Neverland are just thrilled...:huh: Must be a Joe Jackson Production..

Hi dino..well they said the residence around Neverland are very worried and not real happy ...as far as AS and JJ I will just leave my opinion out about them..but what you just said does NOT surprise me one bit..just heard he wanted Diana Ross to have the kids if his mother was no longer living...well that is what they say his will said...

[lilismom]

Does anyone know if now that the Will has been filed if any of the executors have any power to put the brakes on these funeral/viewing/memorial arrangements?

IMO,
Lilismom

[SDMermaid]

I'm mad at him because if he did let a doc give him this drug he was so selfish to break his kid's hearts and he knew it was dangerous there are other things to take to go to sleep:cursing:


Neither do I aproudmom but I won't waste a moment of my life grieving over someone who cared less about his own life and many fans, some of whom cared enough to take thier own lives because of him. How very very pathetic that one person could have that kind of influence on some. I do not know how he could ever rest in peace if he knew what he caused. Selfish indulgence is the only answer.

[lilismom]

Hi dino..well they said the residence around Neverland are very worried and not real happy ...as far as AS and JJ I will just leave my opinion out about them..but what you just said does NOT surprise me one bit..just heard he wanted Diana Ross to have the kids if his mother was no longer living...well that is what they say his will said...


The Will that has been released....yep....Diana Ross.

IMO,
Lilismom

[Unperson1984]

Again something which I already asked myself some days ago:

Coroner Returns to Jackson House for Drugs

"We're told the LAPD retrieved several prescription bottles from Jackson's house ... but the plastic bags by no means were filled with pills."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/coroner-goes-back-to-jackson-house/

The Jackson family had been at his house with vans before the coroner went into the house again. The scene could have been manipulated. How could the drugs they allegedly found be evidence?

Perhaps LE sealed parts of the house and allowed the family access to the rest.

[LILMANMAX]

Well if this investigation goes beyond a routine death one -- the scene has been contaminated. It was released two days after MJ's death.


No joke. LAPD still up to their old trix.
Absolutely ridiculous. :rolleyes:

[aproudmom]

------------

without having to go back and read, did he perform with the dancers at rehearsal? thanks in advance

I think so.. Athena I think left a link early this morning that was talking about the last night of his rehearsal

[aproudmom]

No joke. LAPD still up to their old trix.
Absolutely ridiculous. :rolleyes:

:biggrin:I was waiting for that one to be said..lol..

[jewel6]

i saw this about michaels son sorry if it has already been discussed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529536,00.html

[KatieLady]

Does anyone know if now that the Will has been filed if any of the executors have any power to put the brakes on these funeral/viewing/memorial arrangements?

IMO,
Lilismom

If Michael expressed his wishes in his will/trust and they aren't what has been planned, I believe they can stop it IMO Although it is my understanding that the family is in control of his remains...so who knows IMO

[truthdiscern]

I'm not so sure MJ was really against going back to NL. He made that statement shortly after the trial when he was very bitter. I would think that if he meant it he would not have struggled as hard as he did to keep it. JMO

I cannot imagine them going to public school but private school would be an option

According to Stacy Brown the children exhibit above normal intelligence.

why leave neverland?...sneddon and evil buddies...that he never fully gave up interest is telling...
i also read that the children speak 4 languages...not indicative of public schooling..unfortunately

[*Serenity*]

------------

without having to go back and read, did he perform with the dancers at rehearsal? thanks in advance

Photos were posted recently with him and some of the dancers right behind him. Could possibly be posted on the links thread or google for Michael and the dancers, or This Is It Concert.

:)

[KatieLady]

I doubt it. The will doesn't specify to my knowledge how he was to be buried so that would be left up to the next of kin. JMO

It could be in his Family Trust

[missinglink]

Does anyone know if now that the Will has been filed if any of the executors have any power to put the brakes on these funeral/viewing/memorial arrangements?

IMO,
Lilismom

No they can't. Although they were listed as executors, they still have to be appointed by the Court. They are to oversee his estate.

Normally, spouses get first dib at funeral arrangements, then children (if adults), then parents. Not always, but usually. JMO.

[SDMermaid]

I think this is what MJ would want for his fans to come and say goodbye in a big way. MJ was always having parties at Neverland so I'm not surprised they are making a big deal about his funeral. I'm so glad I live in San Diego


Let the circus begin.. this is so pathetic.. just had the news on and now which I don't really find that hard to believe because both of these fools have ego's as big as god knows what.. Good old Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are now arguing over who is going to officiate over the services..:rolleyes:

Is this a memorial service or pay per view prime time infomercial...

It's being reported just this morning.. first a memorial at the Staples center in LA.. from there a procession some two and a half hours away to Neverland where he will lay in "display" and then Sunday a "private" memorial service for just the family...

This whole thing is just to bizarre. I'm all for memorializing someone in their death.. but this is just downright NUTS... JMVHO

4th of July weekend and they are going to motorcade some two and a half hours up the crazy freeways in so. CA up to Santa Barbara.. I bet the people living near Neverland are just thrilled...:huh: Must be a Joe Jackson Production..

[emdragon]

I would think the first visit to the house was removed with prescription drugs -- wonder if IV supplies, propofol and licodaine were in the bags the 2nd trip and there had to be a reason they confiscated the Dr.'s car too!

Didn't LE already say the got warrants and went back to the house because of the interview with the Dr. and said there were no :red" flags

http://arkansasmatters.com/content/news/fulltext?cid=233871

No "Red Flag" After Jackson Doctor Interview (Los Angeles, CA) -- A second interview with Michael Jackson's cardiologist didn't find any "red flags" about the circumstances surrounding the superstar's death Thursday.



But all that aside- the Will says if Katherine either died before Michael or was unable to care for the kids he wants them to go to Dianna Ross!!!!!!!!!!

Let's be serious here if there is anyone that comes close to being as bizarre as Michael it is DR. The man could not find even one person he trusted under the age of 60 to care for those kids?
Those of you championing Janet must stop and think why Michael would pic another ICON to raise his kids rather than his family. Almost makes me think he didn't care or want them to have a normal life out of the spotlight.

Don't know what is sadder- that he trusted so few or that he would wish his children to be raised in more craziness.

[aproudmom]

Oh Jesse and Al don't get me started about those twohammer

leave it to dino to get us going there
J/K dino if you see this:tonguewag:

[who_is_it]

Well, the way I see it, I don't think it has been labeled as a "crime scene". JMO. And if the prescription bottles had Michael's name or others on them, they can follow the source, the RX number, etc. Probably the prescription itself, and not the number of pills were what they were looking for. JMO. Also, if later it is determined to be a crime scene, the evidence will be questioned. But lots of times things are taken from a house later, for example the Casey Anthony case. Things were taken from her parents home months after she was arrested for murder, and listed as evidence.

Like I said replied to another poster: TMZ somehow tries to make readers believe it was labeled a "crime scene", mentioning for example:

"if a doctor facilitated it for Jackson and it caused his death, he or she could be prosecuted for manslaughter."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/michael-jackson-propofol-lidocaine-overdose-criminal/

I have no idea if TMZ's aim is to attract readers or if the Jackson family is behind this scenario because they might sue the doctor. I'm pretty sure they're in contact with the family.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I'm confused!
Are you saying these 2 pictures are of the same person?
Because there are 2 different reporters.
One is Lee Thomas and the other is Eric Phillips.
I thought they were 2 differnt guys ?!

Man..call me stupido..I was way off base..however..those pictures do look similar..and assumed Eric being from Australia..Geesh..Smack me with a wet noodle....

Anyway, the article about what this news anchor goes thru is very enlightening isnt it..

Sorry..and TY for correcting me..Me BAD!!

LMS

[truthdiscern]

Didn't LE already say the got warrants and went back to the house because of the interview with the Dr. and said there were no :red" flags

http://arkansasmatters.com/content/news/fulltext?cid=233871





But all that aside- the Will says if Katherine either died before Michael or was unable to care for the kids he wants them to go to Dianna Ross!!!!!!!!!!

Let's be serious here if there is anyone that comes close to being as bizarre as Michael it is DR. The man could not find even one person he trusted under the age of 60 to care for those kids?
Those of you championing Janet must stop and think why Michael would pic another ICON to raise his kids rather than his family. Almost makes me think he didn't care or want them to have a normal life out of the spotlight.

Don't know what is sadder- that he trusted so few or that he would wish his children to be raised in more craziness.

well, Katherine Jackson implies the entire family to me..brothers, sisters, cousins...and what do you know about Diana Ross?..seems to me she has raised beautiful talented children..well adults now..why is it craziness if he trusts someone he knew his entire life?..what IS craziness..is for you to judge something you know absolutely nothing about

[KatieLady]

This is true - the family trust = next of kin which may be the children but due to them being minors it would be his parents ??

They are showing the will right now on CNN Live

In his trust he could very well spell out exactly what he wanted for his funeral. It would then be up to the executors to make that happen. But like I said, as far as I know they are not in control of his remains right now IMO

[who_is_it]

i saw this about michaels son sorry if it has already been discussed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529536,00.html

It was rumored his son should have made a stage debut. I have no trust in the source Stacey Brown. I could be wrong but believe the "family biographer" is no longer in contact with the family.

[aproudmom]

i saw this about michaels son sorry if it has already been discussed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529536,00.html

I read all 4 of them would sing a song can not remember the name of it was a few days ago..

[who_is_it]

Here is what some of how you already had found out earlier -- now confirmed by TMZ:

MJ's Former Nanny: I Never Pumped His Stomach

"I am shocked, hurt and deeply saddened by recent statements the press has attributed to me, in particular, the outrageous and patently false claim that I 'routinely pumped his stomach after he had ingested a dangerous combination of drugs.' I don't even know how to pump a stomach!!"

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/mjs-former-nanny-i-never-pumped-his-stomach/

[*Serenity*]

Didn't LE already say the got warrants and went back to the house because of the interview with the Dr. and said there were no :red" flags
http://arkansasmatters.com/content/news/fulltext?cid=233871
But all that aside- the Will says if Katherine either died before Michael or was unable to care for the kids he wants them to go to Dianna Ross!!!!!!!!!!

Let's be serious here if there is anyone that comes close to being as bizarre as Michael it is DR. The man could not find even one person he trusted under the age of 60 to care for those kids?
Those of you championing Janet must stop and think why Michael would pic another ICON to raise his kids rather than his family. Almost makes me think he didn't care or want them to have a normal life out of the spotlight.

Don't know what is sadder- that he trusted so few or that he would wish his children to be raised in more craziness.

I watched quite a few of his interviews via youtube last night, and one of his interviews he talks about 'trusting relationships/friendships' -- he named Diana Ross as one person he could tell anything without fear of betray. Several slips of LaToya talking about Michael were not really shed in a good light, and seems he was not close to his family except his Mother. His Mother stood beside him everyday in the court room during his trial and pretty much throughout his life. So- an outsider who he trusted for years would totally make sense, in Michael's mind.

Just my little 2cents...

jmo

[jewel6]

It was rumored his son should have made a stage debut. I have no trust in the source Stacey Brown. I could be wrong but believe the "family biographer" is no longer in contact with the family.

Thanks! Thats the first time i had heard of jr making a debut.

[VC2]

It sounds like Branca did a superb job of wrapping that will up tightly with them as executors.

Don Lemon was just reading from it (the pdf stopped for me i think the server is crashing lol) and i so far cant see how it will be challenged. Having attorneys as executors is not abnormal. They ensured no further supposed children can come forward, alive or dead.

They dealt with the restated and re amended trust in March of 2002 as the trust in the will.

Joe jackson must be going NUTS and some of the brothers. IMO

jmo

[VC2]

According to CNN reporting -- The Jacksons have no control over any of MJs assets, estate, etc. The only thing he mentions that he wants KJ as guardian of children; Diana Ross as backup.

Trust is a private document that will not be released to the public

FULL POWER is given to John Branca, John McClean, Barry Seagal over selling, leasing, exchange of any property whether real or otherwise. Power to invest as per their discretion.

MY COMMENTS: This is great because we know the children will be taken care of without all the other Jackson hands in the pot. JMHO

I am so happy with this and pray its not overturned.

someone mentioned diana ross is a really bad choice for guardian..i cant remember hearing anything bad about her, whats the scoop?

[who_is_it]

It sounds like Branca did a superb job of wrapping that will up tightly with them as executors.

Don Lemon was just reading from it (the pdf stopped for me i think the server is crashing lol) and i so far cant see how it will be challenged. Having attorneys as executors is not abnormal. They ensured no further supposed children can come forward, alive or dead.

They dealt with the restated and re amended trust in March of 2002 as the trust in the will.

Joe jackson must be going NUTS and some of the brothers. IMO

jmo

According to the LA Times John Branca was on CNN these days. Did you or anybody else watch? If yes, which impression did you get?

[*Serenity*]

----------

Thanks Serenity. this is what i dont understand.......if he didnt dance with the others, then how r they gonna release a video (as earlier mentioned)? I think i read that it would be released for sale at a later date. jmo

I read somewhere that they recorded quite a bit of one of their last rehearsals, and said to be pretty awesome clip. Some of the photos posted on the internet appeared to be pretty good quality.

I have read so much and visited so many websites that I have no clue where to find this news report.

sorry...

[LILMANMAX]

I read somewhere that they recorded quite a bit of one of their last rehearsals, and said to be pretty awesome clip. Some of the photos posted on the internet appeared to be pretty good quality.

I have read so much and visited so many websites that I have no clue where to find this news report.

sorry...


You Tube had numerous video clips of the auditions the other night. Check there as I'm sure they have rehearsals as well.

[who_is_it]

I read somewhere that they recorded quite a bit of one of their last rehearsals, and said to be pretty awesome clip. Some of the photos posted on the internet appeared to be pretty good quality.

I have read so much and visited so many websites that I have no clue where to find this news report.

sorry...

Here you go...:

Michael Jackson's Last Tour Rehearsals Filmed For Possible Release
Show included floating orbs, aerial dancers.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1614882/20090629/jackson_michael.jhtml

[who_is_it]

You Tube had numerous video clips of the auditions the other night. Check there as I'm sure they have rehearsals as well.

I pretty sure: no. But if you find something I'd be really happy to see... :smile:

[*Serenity*]

Thank you to all who repsonded in regards to the news reports/clips for the last video or documentary in the future for Michael.

Appreciate it....

[aproudmom]

Good morning all :seeya:

Love the "Athie" :)

I know it was 30 minutes prior to calling 911. We do know that he said he administered CPR for at least an hour. What's missing in the timeline is what time did he get there and in what condition was MJ in when he got there.

What's puzzling to me and someone correct me if I have this wrong -- is did he not say that MJ asked him to sit by him while he slept? How long was he sitting there before MJ showed signs of distress. According to the medical literature I have read on this Propofol -- it ONLY TAKES 40 SECONDS for it to kick in so these dots are just not connecting for me.

wait Athena did the lawyers for the Doctor not say MJ ask him to stay that night as he had done a few times. I thought the Doctor was there already not called that morning..we know they said he worked up till midnight if the report is right I think the dancers can verify that along with alot of other..But I am very confused because I had not heard the doc was called that morning I had only heard he stayed at the home that night..did I miss something:confused:

[aproudmom]

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- A lawyer filed Michael Jackson's will -- written seven years ago -- with the Los Angeles County Superior Court on Wednesday morning, court officials said.
Fans pay tribute to the singer at a public memorial Tuesday at Harlem's Apollo Theater.

Fans pay tribute to the singer at a public memorial Tuesday at Harlem's Apollo Theater.

Jackson placed his entire estate in the Michael Jackson Family Trust, which was described in another document being filed in court Wednesday.

Jackson attorney John Branca, attorney Barry Siegel and John McClain, a music industry executive and longtime Jackson friend, were named as executors of the will.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/07/01/jackson.wrap/

OMG I think she likes her payments

:ohmy:"I have intentionally omitted to provide for my former wife, Deborah Rowe Jackson," Jackson's will said

[who_is_it]

wait Athena did the lawyers for the Doctor not say MJ ask him to stay that night as he had done a few times. I thought the Doctor was there already not called that morning..we know they said he worked up till midnight if the report is right I think the dancers can verify that along with alot of other..But I am very confused because I had not heard the doc was called that morning I had only heard he stayed at the home that night..did I miss something:confused:

Yes, that's what the doctor said and -- if I remember it correctly -- AEG also said he permanently was with him. Re-check posts by R~O~S, 911 thread.

[athina]

this is the last will he left and I hope they (Joe) can't find a way to overturn it. I like the part where it MJ says that except of the ppl mentioned in the trust fund he leaves NOTHING to any other of his heirs nor to DR.
I find it strange that he mentions that he is divorced from Debbie Rowe and that he leaves nothing for her but it doesn't mention that he was also once married to Lisa Marie Presley... strange.

I like the will, and hope the trust fund papers are well written and that don't leave much space for interpretation.

I only wish he had put something about funeral arrangements but maybe, just maybe he made the will as a precaution but never really thought he would die so soon. Maybe he kept quiet about funeral arrangements thinking that one day he might just update his will and include them there.

[PBJMOM4]

Man..call me stupido..I was way off base..however..those pictures do look similar..and assumed Eric being from Australia..Geesh..Smack me with a wet noodle....

Anyway, the article about what this news anchor goes thru is very enlightening isnt it..

Sorry..and TY for correcting me..Me BAD!!

LMS

No biggie!!
I just didn't know if the news reporter was one in the same-
Eh, it happens. (putting away the wet noodle)

[CinderL.]

I agree with some of your statement. MJ was an artist but some fans really take it to the next level and worship him like he was a god. I was a fan in my teens but not really since 1989 and after all the surgeries and hanging with boys it just got to weird for me seeing an adult act like a 10 yr on a daily bases. The media takes a story and runs it into the ground. I can't turn on the TV without someone saying something about MJ and just wait until the cause of death comes the media will have a field day:scared:

Just wait until this weekend. :scared:

[who_is_it]

wait Athena did the lawyers for the Doctor not say MJ ask him to stay that night as he had done a few times. I thought the Doctor was there already not called that morning..we know they said he worked up till midnight if the report is right I think the dancers can verify that along with alot of other..But I am very confused because I had not heard the doc was called that morning I had only heard he stayed at the home that night..did I miss something:confused:

ORIGINALLY POSTED BY R~O~S:

Quote:
Randy Phillips, AEG Live president and chief executive, said earlier Friday that it was Jackson who insisted that Dr. Conrad Murray, a financially troubled cardiologist who was with the entertainer when he collapsed Thursday, be put on the tour payroll.

"As a company, we would have preferred not having a physician on staff full-time because it would have been cheaper without the hotels and travel, but Michael was insistent that he be hired," Phillips said. "Michael said he had a rapport with him."

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/siliconalley/media/henry_blodget_michael_jacksons_family_wants_to_kno w_what_role_concert_promoter_aeg_played_in_his_dea th_2009_6.html

---> so full-time

[CinderL.]

No joke. LAPD still up to their old trix.
Absolutely ridiculous. :rolleyes:

The police went back to the Anthony house, and the Van Dam house, months after the houses were released. I didn't know how that worked at the time either.

[missinglink]

OMG I think she likes her payments

:ohmy:"I have intentionally omitted to provide for my former wife, Deborah Rowe Jackson," Jackson's will said

Hello aproudmom.

If he owed her money still, that will be a debt that has to be paid. He may have paid her in one lump sum already, though.

He mentioned her in his will in order to insure she doesn't get any other money. He still has to settle all debts previous to his death.

JMO.

[Unperson1984]

According to CNN reporting -- The Jacksons have no control over any of MJs assets, estate, etc. The only thing he mentions that he wants KJ as guardian of children; Diana Ross as backup.

Trust is a private document that will not be released to the public

FULL POWER is given to John Branca, John McClean, Barry Seagal over selling, leasing, exchange of any property whether real or otherwise. Power to invest as per their discretion.

MY COMMENTS: This is great because we know the children will be taken care of without all the other Jackson hands in the pot. JMHO


This is very good news.

[Dunlurken]

Copy of will:

http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0701_mj_will_wm.pdf

Wow, that's very informative. So, his Mom is not the executor of his will. I don't have time read the whole thing, but Debbie Rowe has no valid control over his estate. Interesting. JMO.

[missinglink]

this is the last will he left and I hope they (Joe) can't find a way to overturn it. I like the part where it MJ says that except of the ppl mentioned in the trust fund he leaves NOTHING to any other of his heirs nor to DR.
I find it strange that he mentions that he is divorced from Debbie Rowe and that he leaves nothing for her but it doesn't mention that he was also once married to Lisa Marie Presley... strange.

I like the will, and hope the trust fund papers are well written and that don't leave much space for interpretation.

I only wish he had put something about funeral arrangements but maybe, just maybe he made the will as a precaution but never really thought he would die so soon. Maybe he kept quiet about funeral arrangements thinking that one day he might just update his will and include them there.

I believe that Will should stand. It will still take a long time for probate.

[aproudmom]

ok I think it is sad if they just move his body around to here and there if this is true I am sad first of all this Mayor since the hour MJ died has been out screaming bury him here..yes he was born in Gary Indiana but the home they lived in sits empty which I am sure is worth a fortune now...I just think it is getting carried away..have his Memorial and lay him to rest..I am not even sure I will go to Gary if they do have him brought there at first I thought I may but I see everyone trying to make money off of a horrible event and he is a humane not a toy to play tug a war with..Maybe it is what he would want I don't know but I think it is sad to move his body around have a memorial and be done with it 1 is enough the Mayor does not need MJ body in Indiana to have a memorial for MJ....sorry but JMO

Jackson's hometown of Gary, Indiana, angled to have its favorite son buried there and planned a massive memorial service at a local ballpark in July.

Gary Mayor Rudy Clay told a Chicago, Illinois, radio station Tuesday that he has been in contact with the Jackson family about the burial.

A burial site could be near a proposed Jackson family museum and a performing arts center, said mayoral spokeswoman Lalosa Burns, who said Clay hadn't received any confirmation.

Clay told WGN that he expects Jackson's body, at the least, will be taken to Gary for a July 10 memorial service at U.S. Steel Works ballpark

[PBJMOM4]

not sure what's factual or not..
but it's been stated that John Braca who wrote up the will with Jackson was fired (or let go} or whatever else years back then was rehired again 3 weeks ago. Seem odd, the timing and all? {If that's even true, of course}

[*Serenity*]

Wow, that's very informative. So, his Mom is not the executor of his will. I don't have time read the whole thing, but Debbie Rowe has no valid control over his estate. Interesting. JMO.

This will more than likely really tick her off that she is intentionally left out for another dime-- which could fuel her up for some vicious fire to fight for the children. She is not going to like reading her name in all CAPS and the stinging word 'intentionally'. Doesn't matter if she really wants the children or not- I see her fuming before this hits the air waves. In my opinion....
:)

[who_is_it]

Branca was involved in the purchase of "The Beatles" catalogue.

source: LA Times, Sept 22 1985
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/music/la-et-hilburn-michael-jackson-sep22,0,452154.story

Frank Dileo was part of the deal, too. I LOVE LOVE LOVE to read this.. because he and Phillips were a few who really cared about Michael -- not altruistically... but they cared. IMO

[Lavinia]

I'm really sorry I have not read back far enough to see if this was covered, (had a lot of errands today), but I'm not understanding Diprivan as a way of getting sleep due to insomnia, anyway. I have seen that many of you correctly identify it as a anesthetic, but it is usually used to induce anesthesia and if not continually given over a period of time, i.e. someone sitting with you and continuing the injection occasionally, it's pretty darn short acting and wouldn't exactly give you a night's sleep. IIRC, it is the one drug that causes the highest amount of death among anesthesiologists and other medical drug abusers because there is a VERY fine line between a therapeutic and a death dose.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Drs. delay in calling 911 was a result of cleaning the scene. Idjit.

[lilismom]

:seeya: *Serenity* - is that you from the ole Bobby Cutts days?

I think he doesn't specifically mention Lisa Marie because he had no reason to think she would try to go after his estate for anything. Debbie Rowe - obviously he wasn't so sure.

IMO,
Lilismom

[CinderL.]

Wow, that's very informative. So, his Mom is not the executor of his will. I don't have time read the whole thing, but Debbie Rowe has no valid control over his estate. Interesting. JMO.

But, he also says Kathrine is guardian of his minor children, of their persons, and estates. So, does that mean she can do what she wants with their estates? Or is she overseen by the executors. I can't copy from the PDF file.

[Unperson1984]

Copy of will:

http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0701_mj_will_wm.pdf

The Will gives Katherine Jackson control of the children's Estate. I'm afraid that will cause Joe to put a lot of pressure on her.

[PBJMOM4]

Branca was involved in the purchase of "The Beatles" catalogue.

source: LA Times, Sept 22 1985
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/music/la-et-hilburn-michael-jackson-sep22,0,452154.story

You're right, thanks.
Went looking online to see how Branca was more recently re hired, was due to the upcoming concert. I should have just looked online before asking!
Thanks.

[CinderL.]

This will more than likely really tick her off that she is intentionally left out for another dime-- which could fuel her up for some vicious fire to fight for the children. She is not going to like reading her name in all CAPS and the stinging word 'intentionally'. Doesn't matter if she really wants the children or not- I see her fuming before this hits the air waves. In my opinion....
:)

I think it is pretty standard. My dad's will states that my ex-sister-in-laws are to be excluded.

[Citygirl]

This will more than likely really tick her off that she is intentionally left out for another dime-- which could fuel her up for some vicious fire to fight for the children. She is not going to like reading her name in all CAPS and the stinging word 'intentionally'. Doesn't matter if she really wants the children or not- I see her fuming before this hits the air waves. In my opinion....
:)


..while I see ol Joe and all the siblings fuming..
and no money for momma or Janet or Grace.

[Unperson1984]

This will more than likely really tick her off that she is intentionally left out for another dime-- which could fuel her up for some vicious fire to fight for the children. She is not going to like reading her name in all CAPS and the stinging word 'intentionally'. Doesn't matter if she really wants the children or not- I see her fuming before this hits the air waves. In my opinion....
:)

It's possible he was making annual payments to her during his life time and the Will is formally ending those payments.

[PBJMOM4]

The Will gives Katherine Jackson control of the children's Estate. I'm afraid that will cause Joe to put a lot of pressure on her.

Yeah, Katherine should update her own Will now, because being that they are married,if something happens to her......Joe gets all.

[missinglink]

DISCLAIMER TO POST BELOW:
I DID NOT MAKE THIS POST :confused:

I didn't say you did. It specifically says athina. :confused:

Maybe you should have put the disclaimer on her post, not mine. WOW!

[athina]

DISCLAIMER TO POST BELOW:
I DID NOT MAKE THIS POST :confused:

Umm and who said you did? I made it and my nickname is ATHINA not ATHENA2, kind of similar but not the same and anyone should be able to notice it's not the same poster.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I'm really sorry I have not read back far enough to see if this was covered, (had a lot of errands today), but I'm not understanding Diprivan as a way of getting sleep due to insomnia, anyway. I have seen that many of you correctly identify it as a anesthetic, but it is usually used to induce anesthesia and if not continually given over a period of time, i.e. someone sitting with you and continuing the injection occasionally, it's pretty darn short acting and wouldn't exactly give you a night's sleep. IIRC, it is the one drug that causes the highest amount of death among anesthesiologists and other medical drug abusers because there is a VERY fine line between a therapeutic and a death dose.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Drs. delay in calling 911 was a result of cleaning the scene. Idjit.

Lavinia..you are correct about the uses for that drug..now I cannot link this but I did hear that Nurse this morning answer that question..about how did Michael even know about this drug, and if he had it before..was it in a hospital setting??

Well, her answer to that was yes, he had it will in hospital, and claimed to the nurse, it was the first time he had had a good sleep..and was adamant about getting it in order to sleep..as per her call from Jackson on Father's Day..She was in Florida when he called her..asking her if she knew someone who could get this drug for him.

I will look for a transcript of this convo..she was also answering questions from Sanja Gupta.

LMS

[Scampi]

But, he also says Kathrine is guardian of his minor children, of their persons, and estates. So, does that mean she can do what she wants with their estates? Or is she overseen by the executors. I can't copy from the PDF file.

It seems to be that the will and trust has been expertly crafted. I would bet the children's "estate" is funded by the trust and for a specified amount yearly. There may also be a clause in the trust to provide for "extraordinary" expenses regarding the children that may arise.

I think Michael was in good hands with those handling his will and trust.

[who_is_it]

You're right, thanks.
Went looking online to see how Branca was more recently re hired, was due to the upcoming concert. I should have just looked online before asking!
Thanks.

Phillips’s main worry has been how to keep Jackson away “from all these characters I have to fend off from his past”. He won’t name them, and you hope they don’t include more litigious parents.
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article6372171.ece?token=null&offset=24&page=3

ONLY 8 DAYS BEFORE HIS DEATH (according to LA Times and an article by Access Hollywood on June 26th) they got the lawyer back!

Did you read what he said about the parents? I fully agree!!!

It's the biggest mess what could have happened to these people who supported him..., it's horrific if you think of Michael how focused he was... but at least the will affairs are not in the hands of the family!

[*Serenity*]

:seeya: *Serenity* - is that you from the ole Bobby Cutts days?

I think he doesn't specifically mention Lisa Marie because he had no reason to think she would try to go after his estate for anything. Debbie Rowe - obviously he wasn't so sure.

IMO,
Lilismom

Hi Lili

Yea... tis me girlie....
I had to add a few accessories to go with my dress LOL...
The asterics before and after are such a nice touch. I started
on the Caylee board and very early on we had a poster that
was -- well pretty much after all of us. Glad to see you again
and keep looking for the new and improved JBL.

I still laugh about watching the carpet for that verdict and sending
that poster down to the courthouse late at night. That was
hysterically funny.

Back on topic :
I posted quite a few youtube interviews with Michael earlier today and last night-- when you get a chance watch some of his funniest moment clips. They show a different side of him.

:)

[solar]

Didn't LE already say the got warrants and went back to the house because of the interview with the Dr. and said there were no :red" flags

http://arkansasmatters.com/content/news/fulltext?cid=233871





But all that aside- the Will says if Katherine either died before Michael or was unable to care for the kids he wants them to go to Dianna Ross!!!!!!!!!!

Let's be serious here if there is anyone that comes close to being as bizarre as Michael it is DR. The man could not find even one person he trusted under the age of 60 to care for those kids?
Those of you championing Janet must stop and think why Michael would pic another ICON to raise his kids rather than his family. Almost makes me think he didn't care or want them to have a normal life out of the spotlight.

Don't know what is sadder- that he trusted so few or that he would wish his children to be raised in more craziness.


I agree with your post for the most part except about Diana Ross. Diana has raised her 6 children in relative normalcy. They seem to have grown up well.

imo
solar

[emdragon]

well, Katherine Jackson implies the entire family to me..brothers, sisters, cousins...and what do you know about Diana Ross?..seems to me she has raised beautiful talented children..well adults now..why is it craziness if he trusts someone he knew his entire life?..what IS craziness..is for you to judge something you know absolutely nothing about

How do you get the entire family out of KATHERINE Jackson?

The will says Katherine or Dianna- not the rest of the family.

Dianna Ross is in her 60's and has had he moments of bizarre- I did make a point that i thought it was sad he only trusted someone so much older. (I personally think he was always in Love with Dianna).

[athina]

Ohhhhh. Thanks. I thought I was going nuts. I haven't seen your NIC before and thought someone was quoting me and just misspelled my name since your original quote was not quoted correctly.

Sorry missinglink :blushing:

No problem! I don't post much and I used to have another nickname but I was banned back in the days of SP's trial LOL!
So I changed it and then I see that there are like 3 of us with similar nicknames.
I still don't want to change it because I will loose my "post record" LOL!!!

[missinglink]

Yeah, Katherine should update her own Will now, because being that they are married,if something happens to her......Joe gets all.

She may not even have a Will. If she died intestate, Joe would get some, and her children would get their share too. And Michael's children would get Michael's share. (This is just her estate, not Michael's children's money from him.)

[lilismom]

Yeah, Katherine should update her own Will now, because being that they are married,if something happens to her......Joe gets all.

I'm confused. How does Katherine or Joe get anything? The Will says "I give my entire estate to the Trustee or Trustees then acting under that certain Amended and Restated Declaration of Trust...". Doesn't that mean that the Trustee or Trustees are in charge of everything up to and including anything left in trust for the children?

IMO,
Lilismom

[Unperson1984]

But, he also says Kathrine is guardian of his minor children, of their persons, and estates. So, does that mean she can do what she wants with their estates? Or is she overseen by the executors. I can't copy from the PDF file.

Depends on several things, the most important being who are the Successor Trustees?

[missinglink]

My sincere apologies missinglink. This is the first time I've ever seen the poster's name and thought it was misspelled. My bad. :blushing:

No problem! :rose:

[Lavinia]

Lavinia..you are correct about the uses for that drug..now I cannot link this but I did hear that Nurse this morning answer that question..about how did Michael even know about this drug, and if he had it before..was it in a hospital setting??

Well, her answer to that was yes, he had it will in hospital, and claimed to the nurse, it was the first time he had had a good sleep..and was adamant about getting it in order to sleep..as per her call from Jackson on Father's Day..She was in Florida when he called her..asking her if she knew someone who could get this drug for him.

I will look for a transcript of this convo..she was also answering questions from Sanja Gupta.

LMS

Boy that's just crazazy, Lynda! I truly can not imagine a worse drug to be taking at home. Well, maybe that combined with succinocholine type drugs (that paralyze the voluntary muscles) which I guess the Diprivan basically had the same effect, (although not a muscle paralyzer), you ain't moving anything if you're not breathing. IF that drug was in fact given, I think manslaughter is too easy a charge. That would go above and beyond malpractice and manslaughter in my book. People never cease to be amazing.

[kellabeck]

I'm bringing this over from the Tues. thread because I posted it there this morning by mistake. And I think it's worth consideration.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...s-final-panic/

Link to an interesting article by Gerald Posner suggesting a possible scenario for Jackson's death.

Summary: Jackson wanted to trigger a medical clause to get out of so many concert dates and may have mixed pills in order to create a need to go to the hospital.

Support for this? Using a medical excuse is not new for Jackson. Remember the pajama day?
Pill taking? Well-known.
50 concert dates? Posner lays out the sequence of events-- Jackson announced 10 dates which then kept expanding reportedly against Jackson's will.
ALSO-- according to Posner, Murray did not routinely sleep over but was asked to stay that night. And the suggestion is that that may have been his "safety net."

The thrust of this is that it was an accident. He wanted to create a minor medical issue that would get him out of the concert dates but it went too far.

[who_is_it]

How do you get the entire family out of KATHERINE Jackson?

The will says Katherine or Dianna- not the rest of the family.

Dianna Ross is in her 60's and has had he moments of bizarre- I did make a point that i thought it was sad he only trusted someone so much older. (I personally think he was always in Love with Dianna).

I believe so, too.

Btw, "Dirty Diana" is one of my favorites.

[who_is_it]

I'm bringing this over from the Tues. thread because I posted it there this morning by mistake. And I think it's worth consideration.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...s-final-panic/

<snipped>



link: 404 error

[*Serenity*]

I think it is pretty standard. My dad's will states that my ex-sister-in-laws are to be excluded.

I don't think Debbie Rowe was pretty standard in Michaels eyes.
He made sure he intentionally left her out, named her personally,
and I picture her getting all fired up. I noticed he didn't mention
Lisa Presley and she was also his ex wife. He wanted nothing
to do with Debbie Rowe- probably from the court battles and
always having to pay her additional money.

Personally- just from reading about DR since I do not know her
in real life..... I have a great dislike for the woman and cringe
at the thought of her even trying to regain custody of the
children. She carried them for Michael and handed them
over on her own free will. She has been all about the money
in my opinion from day one.

[Unperson1984]

Yeah, Katherine should update her own Will now, because being that they are married,if something happens to her......Joe gets all.

If she doesn't have a Will, he would get her Estate, not the children's. If she has a Will he may not get anything, inheritance isn't community property in California.

[CinderL.]

Boy that's just crazazy, Lynda! I truly can not imagine a worse drug to be taking at home. Well, maybe that combined with succinocholine type drugs (that paralyze the voluntary muscles) which I guess the Diprivan basically had the same effect, (although not a muscle paralyzer), you ain't moving anything if you're not breathing. IF that drug was in fact given, I think manslaughter is too easy a charge. That would go above and beyond malpractice and manslaughter in my book. People never cease to be amazing.

It is crazy. We were talking about this late (too late) last night, and I had talked to a friend of mine, an ER nurse, she said there is no way this drug should ever be used outside of a hospital. She said whenever they use it, which is quite often, they have a respiratory therapist right there, just in case. Take vital signs every 3 minutes. Crazy.

[CinderL.]

I don't think Debbie Rowe was pretty standard in Michaels eyes.
He made sure he intentionally left her out, named her personally,
and I picture her getting all fired up. I noticed he didn't mention
Lisa Presley and she was also his ex wife. He wanted nothing
to do with Debbie Rowe- probably from the court battles and
always having to pay her additional money.

Personally- just from reading about DR since I do not know her
in real life..... I have a great dislike for the woman and cringe
at the thought of her even trying to regain custody of the
children. She carried them for Michael and handed them
over on her own free will. She has been all about the money
in my opinion from day one.

I agree about DR.

[aproudmom]

No -- sorry. The Dr. had been living there 24x7 for the past 11 days. My question is when did he actually see MJ that morning?? Did he spend the entire night in MJ's room or was he just monitoring him (in/out)?

oh ok thought so...but my gosh things change by the minute so thought maybe I missed it and he had been called and came that morning...also I know he was married 2 times but he did not have kids with Lisa P that would be one reason he may say nothing was left to DR since they had kids together I am just guessing that if it is even true he said nothing was left for DR I just now saw the link for his will so I am getting ready to read it...

[CinderL.]

Michael Jackson Court Hearing

Posted Jul 1st 2009 1:47PM by TMZ Staff

Michael JacksonThere's a hearing underway over Michael Jackson's will.

Here's the problem. On Monday, Katherine's lawyers got an order from the judge making Katherine the temporary administrator of her son's estate, based on her belief that no will existed.

Now that a will has been filed, the named executors want to make sure they have control over the assets and are asking the judge to nullify Katherine's power to move assets around -- even temporarily.

We're told there isn't a conflict between Katherine and the new executors -- it's just to button things up.

[missinglink]

If she doesn't have a Will, he would get her Estate, not the children's. If she has a Will he may not get anything, inheritance isn't community property in California.

JMO, but if she died without a will, I believe Joe would only get 1/2 of community property and 1/3 of the rest of the intestate estate.

If she is still Jehovah's Witness, I believe she would name a church official as Executor of her estate if she leaves a Will. (JMO based on when several family members died and were JW)

[aproudmom]

I don't think Debbie Rowe was pretty standard in Michaels eyes.
He made sure he intentionally left her out, named her personally,
and I picture her getting all fired up. I noticed he didn't mention
Lisa Presley and she was also his ex wife. He wanted nothing
to do with Debbie Rowe- probably from the court battles and
always having to pay her additional money.

Personally- just from reading about DR since I do not know her
in real life..... I have a great dislike for the woman and cringe
at the thought of her even trying to regain custody of the
children. She carried them for Michael and handed them
over on her own free will. She has been all about the money
in my opinion from day one.

ITA about DR...but as far as LM they have no children so I did not think anything about her not being named in there...but I see DR coming into the picture at some point and it may not be pretty unless who ever has the children continues to pay her she has made it clear those are not her children they are MJ well I guess we shall see if she changes her tune..all JMO

[missinglink]

Michael Jackson Court Hearing

Posted Jul 1st 2009 1:47PM by TMZ Staff

Michael JacksonThere's a hearing underway over Michael Jackson's will.

Here's the problem. On Monday, Katherine's lawyers got an order from the judge making Katherine the temporary administrator of her son's estate, based on her belief that no will existed.

Now that a will has been filed, the named executors want to make sure they have control over the assets and are asking the judge to nullify Katherine's power to move assets around -- even temporarily.

We're told there isn't a conflict between Katherine and the new executors -- it's just to button things up.

That's good.

[who_is_it]

Personally, I found that to be the least alarming part of the other article's claims. I was more interested with the comments that she had to keep the kids away from him due to the drug use being so bad at times and about them receiving no real education and the was they acted around him.

So far...no one is denying those allegations aren't true.

Imo none of it seems to be true...

... as she has says on her website:

"I have never spoken to the Times Online, the original source of the story that has now been picked up worldwide."

http://www.intent.com/mallikachopra/blog/statement-grace-rwaramba-regarding-michael-jackson

I think others posters had come to the result some days ago already.

What I find shocking is that you can't even trust "The Times"! It's actually Britain's quality paper #1.

[CinderL.]

That's good.


I think so too. Can you imagine how much just this funeral is going to cost? :ohmy: Someone needs to get this estate in order.

[Lavinia]

It is crazy. We were talking about this late (too late) last night, and I had talked to a friend of mine, an ER nurse, she said there is no way this drug should ever be used outside of a hospital. She said whenever they use it, which is quite often, they have a respiratory therapist right there, just in case. Take vital signs every 3 minutes. Crazy.

That's right, CinderL. Plus a crash cart with respiratory supportive equipment. Not to mention someone who knows how to do CPR :rolleyes:. OMG, that was the most elementary foul up I have EVER seen. He might as well have been doing compressions on his knee. UN-believable. Add in the 30 minute lapse to call for help and I would rather my 11 year old do a heart valve replacement on me in the garage with a rusty can opener.

[missinglink]

I think so too. Can you imagine how much just this funeral is going to cost? :ohmy: Someone needs to get this estate in order.

I hadn't even thought about the costs associated with the funeral.

Also, if someone is responsible for his death, for example...a doctor, etc., you can bet there will also be a civil suit.

I guess the cost isn't being considered.

[missinglink]

That's right, CinderL. Plus a crash cart with respiratory supportive equipment. Not to mention someone who knows how to do CPR :rolleyes:. OMG, that was the most elementary foul up I have EVER seen. He might as well have been doing compressions on his knee. UN-believable. Add in the 30 minute lapse to call for help and I would rather my 11 year old do a heart valve replacement on me in the garage with a rusty can opener.

Lavinia, Lavinia, you crack me up. You'd be dead either way. Remember I have the artificial mitral valve? I had the best surgeon and I still almost died! :scared:

[aproudmom]

I watched the whole ANS thing play out as her body laid in a morgue and all the hearings and fighting..I just pray to God this does not turn into this..the man has not even been laid to rest as of yet and OFGS lets hope they know where they want him buried I will never forget them waiting to have ANS funeral and burial over her Mom trying to stop it right up to the minute of her funeral..I just hope the family has agreed on everything and they are all on board and we don't hear they are fighting over his burial place or what State I think everyone that is famous should always have their wishes down to who they want to do their service..cause this is getting crazy and I see it getting crazier real soon..

OMG I am going to go put all that stuff in my will and I am just a nobody..

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I hadn't even thought about the costs associated with the funeral.

Also, if someone is responsible for his death, for example...a doctor, etc., you can bet there will also be a civil suit.

I guess the cost isn't being considered.

You know..I actually even hate to mention this..but just a possibility????Maybe the costs will be deferred..as all rights to filming, a..la..ANS..might be done too!! When money is involved..who knows what will happen..exclusives..all rights reserved to da da da...

LMS:huh:

[CinderL.]

That's right, CinderL. Plus a crash cart with respiratory supportive equipment. Not to mention someone who knows how to do CPR :rolleyes:. OMG, that was the most elementary foul up I have EVER seen. He might as well have been doing compressions on his knee. UN-believable. Add in the 30 minute lapse to call for help and I would rather my 11 year old do a heart valve replacement on me in the garage with a rusty can opener.

:laugh: I think I would want your 11 yr. old too.

I think the Dr. has a lot to answer for.....or someone else. Whoever started that IV is in big trouble.

[missinglink]

I watched the whole ANS thing play out as her body laid in a morgue and all the hearings and fighting..I just pray to God this does not turn into this..the man has not even been laid to rest as of yet and OFGS lets hope they know where they want him buried I will never forget them waiting to have ANS funeral and burial over her Mom trying to stop it right up to the minute of her funeral..I just hope the family has agreed on everything and they are all on board and we don't hear they are fighting over his burial place or what State I think everyone that is famous should always have their wishes down to who they want to do their service..cause this is getting crazy and I see it getting crazier real soon..

OMG I am going to go put all that stuff in my will and I am just a nobody..

JMO, everyone should have a Will. And made easily to get access to after death. NEVER put one in a safe deposit box. Best to be in a fireproof safe in attorney's office.

[CinderL.]

I watched the whole ANS thing play out as her body laid in a morgue and all the hearings and fighting..I just pray to God this does not turn into this..the man has not even been laid to rest as of yet and OFGS lets hope they know where they want him buried I will never forget them waiting to have ANS funeral and burial over her Mom trying to stop it right up to the minute of her funeral..I just hope the family has agreed on everything and they are all on board and we don't hear they are fighting over his burial place or what State I think everyone that is famous should always have their wishes down to who they want to do their service..cause this is getting crazy and I see it getting crazier real soon..

OMG I am going to go put all that stuff in my will and I am just a nobody..

The whole thing is shades of ANS. TMZ says they still don't know where they are going to bury MJ. I just can't get out of my head having him in an open casket. Are they going to put one of his masks on him? It is really getting hot here. I really think he would hate people to be looking at him. But, that is JMO.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

:laugh: I think I would want your 11 yr. old too.

I think the Dr. has a lot to answer for.....or someone else. Whoever started that IV is in big trouble.

You know..I just had a thought..with such a big estate as they were living in..you would think they had survallience camara's..i wonder if a "Cleanup Crew" was or could have been captured for that time period prior to that 911 call?..If it was an outside source..than maybe that is why they went back to the house to check for more paraphenalia??? Just sherlock Holmesing...LOL

LMS

[CinderL.]

You know..I just had a thought..with such a big estate as they were living in..you would think they had survallience camara's..i wonder if a "Cleanup Crew" was or could have been captured for that time period prior to that 911 call?..If it was an outside source..than maybe that is why they went back to the house to check for more paraphenalia??? Just sherlock Holmesing...LOL

LMS

Were you on the board when the trucks came to get stuff out of the house? Someone, sorry I don't remember who, was saying there were something like 10 trashcans on the street. I wonder if the LAPD got those trash bags? I don't know about the camera's. I know the news reports with the people gathering showed the trash cans. :ohmy:

[aproudmom]

It's possible he was making annual payments to her during his life time and the Will is formally ending those payments.

um just from what I have heard out of her own mouth NO WAY she will expect her payments if true he was behind on her monthly allowance and she was upset over the kids not wearing mask and had talked to a lawyer a few weeks ago..I DO NOT KNOW IF IT IS TRUE but would not doubt it for one minute she is a vessel not a mother as she puts it...really good to say on TV about the children which we all know they will see one day I thought alot of what she said would break my heart if I heard the women who carried me for 9 months and gave birth to me then to say some of the stuff she has I would feel un-loved and un-wanted by my bio-mother.sorry but that is how I feel about it but I also love my children and could not bare to part with them for any amount of money..JMO

[Unperson1984]

JMO, but if she died without a will, I believe Joe would only get 1/2 of community property and 1/3 of the rest of the intestate estate.

If she is still Jehovah's Witness, I believe she would name a church official as Executor of her estate if she leaves a Will. (JMO based on when several family members died and were JW)

If she died intestate Joe would get 100% of the community property, he already owns half of it. He would also be entitled to half of any assets she held as separate property.

However if she holds separate property, I'm sure she's made a Will.

[CinderL.]

That's a horrible thing to say. Morticians do wonders with makeup. :confused:

I didn't mean it to horrible. He lived the last years of his life while in the public in MASKS. When in the last few years did you see him without one. Why would he want to be viewed by the public now without one. Sorry, didn't mean it in a bad way.

[FallenAngel♥]

That's a horrible thing to say. Morticians do wonders with makeup. :confused:

in life MJ went around with a mask in public why in death would his family NOT put a mask on him?

[ahlou3]

First Crazy Claim in Jackson Case

"Michael Jackson was married and his wife is demanding all of his property -- this according to a woman who just filed a petition in L.A. County Superior Court."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/michael-jackson/

Does anyone know who is this woman - Nona Paris Lola Ankhesenamun Jackson, who lives in London

[FallenAngel♥]

I didn't mean it to horrible. He lived the last years of his life while in the public in MASKS. When in the last few years did you see him without one. Why would he want to be viewed by the public now without one. Sorry, didn't mean it in a bad way.

ITA....there is no way IMO MJ would want to lay there for the public to walk by him like he was a circus freak...he would want his mask.

[CinderL.]

in life MJ went around with a mask in public why in death would his family NOT put a mask on him?

Thank you. That is what I meant. I think he would be horrified to not have one on and have thousands of people staring at him.

[CinderL.]

He wore a mask in public supposedly to not breathe in germs due to his Lupus. Doubt he's going to be breathing anything in now. :shrug:

I don't believe that is why he used the masks. But, that is MO.

[aproudmom]

Were you on the board when the trucks came to get stuff out of the house? Someone, sorry I don't remember who, was saying there were something like 10 trashcans on the street. I wonder if the LAPD got those trash bags? I don't know about the camera's. I know the news reports with the people gathering showed the trash cans. :ohmy:

there was about 20 trash cans out there can not remember who it was but they said it was driving them nuts cause they hate it when people leave the trash cans out of the street after they pick up trash..lol..but I do remember being on here when all the trash cans were talked about...also wonder if they went in and looked under the carpet or hiding places after that report of him hiding money remember they said Katherine called Grace and ask were he hid the money..NOT LIKE I believe that either...but if the family was in there and really wanted to know just what killed him I would not see them taking anything out actually I would think they would call the law if they found anything while getting some of his property...unlike in alot of cases they would not want that to be known so would hide it..how could they have found 2 bags of stuff and the family never have seen it unless it was hidden..OK I just gave myself a headache..I am out of here for a bit my son has a game..everyone have a wonderful day...talk to you soon..:seeya:

[enigma™]

Thank you. That is what I meant. I think he would be horrified to not have one on and have thousands of people staring at him.

That is exactly what would have happened, had he performed his concerts. I do not think he would have been horrified on stage, why in death?

[CinderL.]

First Crazy Claim in Jackson Case

"Michael Jackson was married and his wife is demanding all of his property -- this according to a woman who just filed a petition in L.A. County Superior Court."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/michael-jackson/

Does anyone know who is this woman - Nona Paris Lola Ankhesenamun Jackson, who lives in London


:laugh::laugh:

[PBJMOM4]

First Crazy Claim in Jackson Case

"Michael Jackson was married and his wife is demanding all of his property -- this according to a woman who just filed a petition in L.A. County Superior Court."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/michael-jackson/

Does anyone know who is this woman - Nona Paris Lola Ankhesenamun Jackson, who lives in London

Never heard of her before.

[ahlou3]

He didn't wear mask when he was on stage so know sure what the mask were really about.

[missinglink]

If she died intestate Joe would get 100% of the community property, he already owns half of it. He would also be entitled to half of any assets she held as separate property.

However if she holds separate property, I'm sure she's made a Will.

I guess I should have worded it differently. He would have been entitled to half of her half, according to California Probate Code Section 6401.

Oh well. I could be wrong...usually am...was just going by the Codes.

[Lavinia]

Lavinia, Lavinia, you crack me up. You'd be dead either way. Remember I have the artificial mitral valve? I had the best surgeon and I still almost died! :scared:

Oh gosh, I forgot ML! Scare-eeeee.

You never can tell when something will go wrong. You see where people die from bacteria from an infected tooth going systemic, then you have the little girl who was the lone survivor in the recent plane crash in (India?). Precisely why you shouldn't court danger with a KNOWN horrifically dangerous drug. Things can go bad with the best Dr.s, health, hospitals and meds; much less the worst.

I'm so glad you're doing well now, kiddo.

(If you get sick again, I have a good 11 year old and an empty garage. :wink: Money back guarantee, lol.)

[aproudmom]

I don't believe that is why he used the masks. But, that is MO.

I do not think MJ would want people looking at him in death..but that's JMO I actually hope they do not have his casket open to the public that should be for the private funeral IMO

See ya later on Cinder and Athena and my late night posters..lol..I got to run I am sure I will be so far behind..

[CinderL.]

OT. Is anyone else have trouble with the pages loading? It is really slow for me.

[FallenAngel♥]

First Crazy Claim in Jackson Case

"Michael Jackson was married and his wife is demanding all of his property -- this according to a woman who just filed a petition in L.A. County Superior Court."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/michael-jackson/

Does anyone know who is this woman - Nona Paris Lola Ankhesenamun Jackson, who lives in London

every time i say i've seen it all....i see stuff like this LMBO

[missinglink]

Oh gosh, I forgot ML! Scare-eeeee.

You never can tell when something will go wrong. You see where people die from bacteria from an infected tooth going systemic, then you have the little girl who was the lone survivor in the recent plane crash in (India?). Precisely why you shouldn't court danger with a KNOWN horrifically dangerous drug. Things can go bad with the best Dr.s, health, hospitals and meds; much less the worst.

I'm so glad you're doing well now, kiddo.

(If you get sick again, I have a good 11 year old and an empty garage. :wink: Money back guarantee, lol.)

LOL! You're so sweet! :smile:

[KatieLady]

First Crazy Claim in Jackson Case

"Michael Jackson was married and his wife is demanding all of his property -- this according to a woman who just filed a petition in L.A. County Superior Court."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/michael-jackson/

Does anyone know who is this woman - Nona Paris Lola Ankhesenamun Jackson, who lives in London



Here we go! IMO this is just the beginning :rolleyes:

[missinglink]

OT. Is anyone else have trouble with the pages loading? It is really slow for me.

I'm not having any problems Cinder.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Were you on the board when the trucks came to get stuff out of the house? Someone, sorry I don't remember who, was saying there were something like 10 trashcans on the street. I wonder if the LAPD got those trash bags? I don't know about the camera's. I know the news reports with the people gathering showed the trash cans. :ohmy:

I cant help but get the feeling that the death investigation will leave no stone unturned..but once again..time will only tell??!!

Those trash Cans and their contents will no doubt be part of the investigation..along with looking at the Doctors car..maybe they were looking for more than just drugs.?? Again..Who really knows but those inside of that investigation?

LMS

[PBJMOM4]

Neverland, or NO NEVERLAND?!
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D995PND00&show_article=1

[missinglink]

Neverland, or NO NEVERLAND?!
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D995PND00&show_article=1

I'm still going with Westwood Village Memorial Park Cemetery. JMO.

[FallenAngel♥]

He wore a mask in public supposedly to not breathe in germs due to his Lupus. Doubt he's going to be breathing anything in now. :shrug:

the director for the Thriller video was on LKL last night and he said MJ worn masks so people would recognize him...did you watch LKL last night the director said he got a good laugh out of it and told MJ yep they'll never know its you now.

[KatieLady]

I'm still going with Westwood Village Memorial Park Cemetery. JMO.



LA radio stations are reporting it's Hollywood Memorial Park. That is where his body has been since the release.

[missinglink]

Does anyone know if Michael was practicing any particular religion?

[boo]

I don't believe that is why he used the masks. But, that is MO.

haha, I'm with you, Cinder. I don't believe that for one little tiny second.

[who_is_it]

All I have to say about the funeral is: I believe Michael would have wanted it to be big -- a show.

We don't know how Michael felt about Neverland during his last months... but he could it once a place of no return.

I hope there's enough security at the funeral. If not I could imagine something horrific would happen. It was reported people allegedly commited suicide... and it's beyond imagination what else could happen if there are no controls.

Not to mention how much Joe is hated.

[KatieLady]

Does anyone know if Michael was practicing any particular religion?

Last I heard he was Muslim IMO

[*Serenity*]

I cant help but get the feeling that the death investigation will leave no stone unturned..but once again..time will only tell??!!

Those trash Cans and their contents will no doubt be part of the investigation..along with looking at the Doctors car..maybe they were looking for more than just drugs.?? Again..Who really knows but those inside of that investigation?

LMS

Sorta o/t
The trash/trash cans reminds me of the woman that went to the Anthony home and retrieved their trash. Interesting incident...:)

[missinglink]

LA radio stations are reporting it's Hollywood Memorial Park. That is where his body has been since the release.

Thank you for this info KatieLady!

[KatieLady]

Thank you for this info KatieLady!

not sure it is the truth but IMO there is no way they can do anything public at Neverland. The report I heard was that the family had met with LAPD and Santa Barbara PD about it and that it just couldn't be done and maintain order

[missinglink]

Last I heard he was Muslim IMO

Thank you. Last I heard embalming the body is forbidden. Yikes! JMO.