Michael Jackson Wed. 7/1/09

[*Serenity*]

That's an incredible opinion.
Wow.

This country -- and the State of California -- hasn't been in this kind of dire financial straights since Jackson was born. California needs money for a lot of things more important to its entire population than paying for a funeral procession for a pop singer -- the state is paid taxes you are right, but the state's job is to spend that money for the citizenry as a whole, not for one family named Jackson.

Good lord, he sang songs. He danced. He entertained. That's all.

You know, the academy award winning actor Karl Malden died today in California. He was an outstanding actor, I admired him very very much, his performance in "A Streetcar Named Desire" (film and stage) was one of the best ever by any actor.

I would prefer that Karl Malden be carried around California rather than Jackson, and he qualifies as much as does Jackson.

But nobody's crying that the State of CA should pay for Malden's memorial -- and the Malden Family wouldn't have it.

The State deals with matters of the state. Not deaths of entertainers.

Glad we can have our opinions.
You also missed the mark on this. Michael has a huge following and large crowds. Did you notice the hospital crowd and downtown crowds?
It's not a matter of the state making him special, it's about the state controlling the crowds, traffic, and public safety for everyone. He paid his taxes and I'm sure it was more than enough to cover the manpower for his funeral procession +++ much much more.

The state has already made so many poor decisions about cutting programs that I can completely understand why we are broke. That's another topic though, so I digress.

I don't see Malden having a huge crowd wanting to memorialize him... sorry.

[Citygirl]

The only time the state of California shoud pay for funeral processions is when a cop or government worker dies, not for MJ or any celebrity regardless of how much taxes they have ever paid to the state. jmo


Exactly. Farrah nor Ed nor any other celebrity got any "funeral" expense help from the city or county..I can't believe there are some that think the local government should pony up any money for anyone's funeral..

[Citygirl]

Sorry if this was posted already but when I read it maybe he knew he thinks he may be attacked: :scared:

Michael's Doc Won't Attend Funeral

Posted Jun 30th 2009 5:14AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson's doctor -- the one who didn't call 911 for 30 minutes after finding MJ unconscious -- won't be attending his funeral, this according to the doc's rep.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/michaels-doc-wont-attend-funeral/


Quincy Jones, said last night on TV, that he would not be attending the funeral either.

[who_is_it]

"The document was produced by John Branca, a lawyer who began representing Jackson in 1980. Branca and Jackson parted ways in 2006 in a disagreement over other advisors, but on June 17 -- eight days before his death -- Jackson signed a letter once again retaining Branca as his lawyer, according to a source familiar with the relationship."

"(...)John McClain, a founder of Interscope Records and an associate of Jackson since his youth, the source said."

"The paradox is that Michael is one of the brightest and most talented people I've ever known," he [Branca] added. "At the same time, he has made some of the worst choices in advisors in the history of music."

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-jackson-legal1-2009jul01,1,7972399.story

I know that Dileo and Phillips tried to rebuild the "team of the old, glorious days"... but does anyone know WHY Michael Jackson rehired Branca so shortly before his death?

[*Serenity*]

I must disagree with you.

Ventura and Santa Barbara County had plenty to say during the 2005 trial about what it cost them.

This State is drowning in debt. It's not fair for the State to absorb the costs just beacuse Jackson paid taxes.

Further, until you see tax returns, you really don't know how much he paid in taxes. He didn't pay anyone else, why would he have paid the Feds and the State??? And if he did, I'm sure it was just a fraction of what it could have been. Michael was a corporation. He was protected by that corporation insofar as having limited income. Part of the reason why corporations are formed is for tax benefit to both the individual and the business.

Also, I'd kind of like to have the LAPD and ChP available for other things on a long Fourth of July weekend.


It's pretty safe to say that he paid more taxes than all of us on this board will pay in a lifetime. The state doesn't listen to the majority of us about their spending habits, so why would they start now? I"m not going to debate the state of California's budget here.

It would be in the best intesert of the public to have the provisions for this funeral.

[Unperson1984]

I agree she does seem to be the only one who would have their best interests in mind, and care for the children because she loves them and not to get something out of it. She's got her work cut out for her though ~ she'll be 90 when Blanket turns 18. :scared: MOO

It appears that most of the Jackson family was to some degree dependant on Michael for their support. In my opinion that means none of them are appropriate as executor of the Estate.

His appointed executors will get a fee set by the Court, they have no motive to cheat. The important thing is to protect the Estate for the children.

[VC2]

But, the will says that Kathrine is to be guardian of any minor children, AND their estates. :confused: I am confused, unless it is spelled out more clearly in the trust.

that means the childrens estate not MJ's

for example, lets say the trust allocates 150k a month to the children for upkeep and care, katherine would have that use for the kids.

MJ might have (and if he was smart did) put a large amount in the trust to be given to the kids at their age of majority, or the remainder of his assets to be fairly divided as they reached age 18 as an example

Essentially it is saying Katherine can use the money (however it has been arranged in the trust for the kids) as she sees fit for them.

IMO that tells me that its more likely to be a monthly allowance until they are old enough to take the money over themselves

jmo

[sunstar]

Sorry if this was posted already but when I read it maybe he knew he thinks he may be attacked: :scared:

Michael's Doc Won't Attend Funeral

Posted Jun 30th 2009 5:14AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson's doctor -- the one who didn't call 911 for 30 minutes after finding MJ unconscious -- won't be attending his funeral, this according to the doc's rep.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/michaels-doc-wont-attend-funeral/

I'm not surprised. I think a lot of people might be blaming him for MJ's death just to blame somebody. MOO

[who_is_it]

Sorry if this was posted already but when I read it maybe he knew he thinks he may be attacked: :scared:

Michael's Doc Won't Attend Funeral

Posted Jun 30th 2009 5:14AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson's doctor -- the one who didn't call 911 for 30 minutes after finding MJ unconscious -- won't be attending his funeral, this according to the doc's rep.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/michaels-doc-wont-attend-funeral/

At this time a public memorial was discussed. He had received death threats (I think this was reported on TMZ, too, in an article with a title similar to "Doc sad").

[CinderL.]

It's pretty safe to say that he paid more taxes than all of us on this board will pay in a lifetime. The state doesn't listen to the majority of us about their spending habits, so why would they start now? I"m not going to debate the state of California's budget here.

It would be in the best intesert of the public to have the provisions for this funeral.

I don't want to pay for any of it....but, you are right, where ever the funeral is going to be, there is going to have to be security, and traffic control.

[*Serenity*]

Exactly. Farrah nor Ed nor any other celebrity got any "funeral" expense help from the city or county..I can't believe there are some that think the local government should pony up any money for anyone's funeral..

I"m not saying pay for his funeral..... not at all.
The topic started with traffic control, security for the public.
It's a public safety issue at hand, not for the funeral or memorial
at all. At least that is what I'm chatting about.

[RootBeer]

It appears that most of the Jackson family was to some degree dependant on Michael for their support. In my opinion that means none of them are appropriate as executor of the Estate.

His appointed executors will get a fee set by the Court, they have no motive to cheat. The important thing is to protect the Estate for the children.

I agree totally. I heard that Katherine filed bankrupt a few years back. Looks like she is not good with money or spending. jmo

[CinderL.]

That's old news. And what does that have to do with Michael Jackson?

Has the Dr. ever been sued for malpractice? Have there been any complaints against him?

imo

I don't think anyone can get that information.

[Citygirl]

that means the childrens estate not MJ's

for example, lets say the trust allocates 150k a month to the children for upkeep and care, katherine would have that use for the kids.

MJ might have (and if he was smart did) put a large amount in the trust to be given to the kids at their age of majority, or the remainder of his assets to be fairly divided as they reached age 18 as an example

Essentially it is saying Katherine can use the money (however it has been arranged in the trust for the kids) as she sees fit for them.

IMO that tells me that its more likely to be a monthly allowance until they are old enough to take the money over themselves

jmo


Yep..this is the most likely thing VC..and don't forget..because she and her lawyer lied to the court..a very very bad thing..she could be removed and the court could appoint someone other than KJ.

[dinojen]

Can you imagine what our roads are going to look like this weekend? The 101 on a normal weekend is chaotic - this would be insanity. Nope, wouldn't go anywhere near it. :scared:


PLUS consider it being the 4th of July weekend... nope.. not me either.. what a mess it would be..:scared:

[CinderL.]

that means the childrens estate not MJ's

for example, lets say the trust allocates 150k a month to the children for upkeep and care, katherine would have that use for the kids.

MJ might have (and if he was smart did) put a large amount in the trust to be given to the kids at their age of majority, or the remainder of his assets to be fairly divided as they reached age 18 as an example

Essentially it is saying Katherine can use the money (however it has been arranged in the trust for the kids) as she sees fit for them.

IMO that tells me that its more likely to be a monthly allowance until they are old enough to take the money over themselves

jmo

That makes sense. Thanks.:smile:

[boo]

Glad we can have our opinions.
You also missed the mark on this. Michael has a huge following and large crowds. Did you notice the hospital crowd and downtown crowds?
It's not a matter of the state making him special, it's about the state controlling the crowds, traffic, and public safety for everyone. He paid his taxes and I'm sure it was more than enough to cover the manpower for his funeral procession +++ much much more.

The state has already made so many poor decisions about cutting programs that I can completely understand why we are broke. That's another topic though, so I digress.

I don't see Malden having a huge crowd wanting to memorialize him... sorry.

As a Southern California resident, I propose that MJ's fans foot the bill for this fiasco. No way should one red cent be spent on this.

[Unperson1984]

It's pretty safe to say that he paid more taxes than all of us on this board will pay in a lifetime. The state doesn't listen to the majority of us about their spending habits, so why would they start now? I"m not going to debate the state of California's budget here.

It would be in the best intesert of the public to have the provisions for this funeral.


No one gets extra benefits by paying more taxes, nor should they!

The State cannot, and should not, contribute to the cost of a private funeral.

[sunstar]

It appears that most of the Jackson family was to some degree dependant on Michael for their support. In my opinion that means none of them are appropriate as executor of the Estate.

His appointed executors will get a fee set by the Court, they have no motive to cheat. The important thing is to protect the Estate for the children.

I agree with you! I was referring more to his mother taking care of the children and having their best interests at heart when it comes to raising them. The estate, I agree, should be handled by someone outside the family. MOO

[CinderL.]

No one gets extra benefits by paying more taxes, nor should they!

The State cannot, and should not, contribute to the cost of a private funeral.

Who will pay for traffic control to the site? Does the family usually pay for that?

[*Serenity*]

I've lived with this for a week.

Exactly one week and one day ago my colleagues and I were in our office looking for alternative routes to get home because of the crowds at the hospital. My drive home generally takes me down Sunset Boulevard, past Carolwood (where Michael's rented house sat just a block off of Sunset), past UCLA and then North into the Valley.

I accomodated the traffic and worked with it. It was done out of respect and sorrow.

After going into the Valley I have a few choices to get home. One of them involves driving directly past the Jackson compound. The other one involves driving down Ventura, right past it's intersection. The other choices all involve me going out of my way.

I've done that now for a week.

I live in a City and State drowning in debt. 10-20% of California Public School teachers are being laid off. Overtime for cops had been suspended (until MJ died). ER rooms are packed, whether you have health insurance or not. It takes me 1 hour in the a.m. to drive 18 miles to work. This State has burned time and time again for the last three years. Inmates are being released from jail early due to budget cuts. Municipalities and cities all through the State don't even have the money for fireworks. The Writer's Strike last year financially crippled Los Angeles.

I could go on and on and on.

But enough is enough. Someone, please, bury Michael Jackson properly already.

BTW - what you said about Karl Malden was not cool. He was a nice man and a wonderful actor. Truly an American original.

I am living the nightmare right here beside you and I'm not too happy either, but it is what is.

BTW I didn't state that Karl Malden was not cool, nice, nor a wonderful actor--- I simply stated I do not see him attracting large crowds, tons of fans, or needing secuity at high levels-- the following is simply not there like Michael Jackson right now. Just my opinion though.

[Citygirl]

Okay, well, two weeks ago I buried my 94 year old Grand Uncle.

He was a WWII Veteran, Patton's 3rd Army. Other than a small reimbursement I can claim from the Veteran's Administration and the Flag on his coffin, there are no further "benefits" for him.

I'll go out on a limb and say what my Grand Uncle did in WWII far outweighs Jackson's taxes, grammy awards and gold records any damn day of the week.


Awww..my condolences Blackbird..a true American Hero..bless him..:patriot:

[vonna]

Okay, well, two weeks ago I buried my 94 year old Grand Uncle.

He was a WWII Veteran, Patton's 3rd Army. Other than a small reimbursement I can claim from the Veteran's Administration and the Flag on his coffin, there are no further "benefits" for him.

I'll go out on a limb and say what my Grand Uncle did in WWII far outweighs Jackson's taxes, grammy awards and gold records any damn day of the week.

As a sister who lost a brother in the Navy - I agree with you.

[dinojen]

<snippet from Blackbird's post>

BTW - what you said about Karl Malden was not cool. He was a nice man and a wonderful actor. Truly an American original.

He may not be Michael Jackson.. but this man was a terrific actor.. he starred in A Street Car Name Desire.. On The Waterfront.. and then moved to television.. he lead a wonderful life with a wife whom he married in 1938.. has a daughter.. won academy award... a well respected actor that doesn't need a white carriage carrying him through the streets of Los Angeles..

We need to get our priorities straight.. I liked Michael Jackson's music.. I liked his dancing.. but he's human.. no better than any other celebrity.. this is getting way out of hand and too bizarre IMO...

[GentleBreeze]

"The document was produced by John Branca, a lawyer who began representing Jackson in 1980. Branca and Jackson parted ways in 2006 in a disagreement over other advisor's, but on June 17 -- eight days before his death -- Jackson signed a letter once again retaining Branca as his lawyer, according to a source familiar with the relationship."

"(...)John McClain, a founder of Interscope Records and an associate of Jackson since his youth, the source said."

"The paradox is that Michael is one of the brightest and most talented people I've ever known," he [Branca] added. "At the same time, he has made some of the worst choices in advisors in the history of music."

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-jackson-legal1-2009jul01,1,7972399.story

I know that Dileo and Phillips tried to rebuild the "team of the old, glorious days"... but does anyone know WHY Michael Jackson rehired Branca so shortly before his death?

IMO, because MJ knew by then that he could complete the tour and everything was going very well. He had to know this would once again be a defining moment for him and that he would be right back on top being the big money maker. He knew he now needed a shrewed and savvy lawyer again. Someone deep down he knew he could trust and knew when he asked him to be his lawyer again, he would.

I truly feel the show was going to be such a huge success that MJ would be even more famous than he had been before when he was in his prime. I think MJ knew it was the right time.

imo

[legalmania]

yep. Many an attorney has made the mistake of not including the line "intentionally omitting my heirs" and then a challenge has a pretty solid leg. Branca and MJ ensured that pretty well everything was covered. I also think that nominating Diana Ross if Katherine is unable/unwilling underscores his wishes to not have his siblings or father in charge of the kids or anything else. Randy and Jermaine always were looking for an opportunity imo with MJ..not saying they didn't care for him but wanting to take charge and doing so when they could. dont know enough about marlon or tito, but again i don't think they were any closer to him.

Toobin was saying that an attorney of the caliber of Branca would not have included Diana in as guardian unless he spoke to her and got her agreement even though it was not technically necessary.

Giving Katherine guardianship of the children makes perfect sense since he and his mom were so close. Excluding Katherine from rthe finanacial assets and executor positions makes even more sense given Joe and the rest who could pressure her..and if she got alzheimers or dementia..even more so.

IMO

You know the question of his drug use will come into play, was he of sound mind when he had the will drafted. I wonder why he would choose Diana? I would think he would pick someone a little bit younger.

[VC2]

Found a wee bit of Info on Dr, Murray and it does list some of his finacnial woes..

http://artistsforfairplay.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/dr-conrad-robert-murray/

Intersting..snippet~~

Murray’s Nevada medical practice, Global Cardiovascular Associates, has court judgments in excess of $430,000 ($228,000 to Citicorp Vendor Finance Inc., $71,000 to a loan company, and $135,000 to a leasing company.) At least two other cases are pending.

Plus:
$3,700 failure to pay child support judgment.

$1,500 garnishment awarded against his wages for debt to a credit card company.

$1,100 case pending by another credit card company.

$940 outstanding in fines and penalties for driving with an expired license plate and for not having proof of insurance in 2000.

Also it states ( have no idea how legit it is)

Meanwhile, Dr. Murray, who had been living at Jackson’s rented Homlby Hills mansion, can spend his time gathering his thoughts on how best to meet his financial troubles, now his major meal ticket has gone. Murray’s fiscal woes are considerable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Conrad_Murray

Murray is a 1989 graduate of Meharry Medical College in Nashville, Tennessee. He filed for bankruptcy in 1992

I cannot find just how old this guy is..but he must be at least 50 years old...but that is just guesstimating...

LMS

you know i can totally understand someone getting into financial difficulties, even a doctor with a decent practice.

What i have difficulty with is the items in the "plus" part. Sure it may be hard or impossible to come up with 71k or 200k but 940 dollars? And he has a house worth 1.8 million iirc.

jmo

[*Serenity*]

Okay, well, two weeks ago I buried my 94 year old Grand Uncle.

He was a WWII Veteran, Patton's 3rd Army. Other than a small reimbursement I can claim from the Veteran's Administration and the Flag on his coffin, there are no further "benefits" for him.

I'll go out on a limb and say what my Grand Uncle did in WWII far outweighs Jackson's taxes, grammy awards and gold records any damn day of the week.

And what does this have to do with public safety and traffic control for a funeral? Did your family need assistance for the funeral recession for traffic to get from the funeral home to the gravesite? Did you not receive that courtesy?

I'm sorry about your loss, I just don't see where this fits in with the topic though. sorry

peace out...

[TunaMelt]

Glad we can have our opinions.
You also missed the mark on this. Michael has a huge following and large crowds. Did you notice the hospital crowd and downtown crowds?
It's not a matter of the state making him special, it's about the state controlling the crowds, traffic, and public safety for everyone. He paid his taxes and I'm sure it was more than enough to cover the manpower for his funeral procession +++ much much more.

The state has already made so many poor decisions about cutting programs that I can completely understand why we are broke. That's another topic though, so I digress.

I don't see Malden having a huge crowd wanting to memorialize him... sorry.

Sorry is right.

I haven't heard anything so sorry in a long long time.

[aproudmom]

OMG I just got home been gone just a couple of hours turned on the TV in that short amount of time I have heard

No Neverland
New Mommy in the picture says she is the children's mother
Dianna Ross
DEA has joined in the investigation.
I think I could go on and on and on..

[TunaMelt]

<snippet from Blackbird's post>

BTW - what you said about Karl Malden was not cool. He was a nice man and a wonderful actor. Truly an American original.

He may not be Michael Jackson.. but this man was a terrific actor.. he starred in A Street Car Name Desire.. On The Waterfront.. and then moved to television.. he lead a wonderful life with a wife whom he married in 1938.. has a daughter.. won academy award... a well respected actor that doesn't need a white carriage carrying him through the streets of Los Angeles..

We need to get our priorities straight.. I liked Michael Jackson's music.. I liked his dancing.. but he's human.. no better than any other celebrity.. this is getting way out of hand and too bizarre IMO...

That's absolutely right, dino.
:thumbup:

[True2Blues]

Okay, well, two weeks ago I buried my 94 year old Grand Uncle.

He was a WWII Veteran, Patton's 3rd Army. Other than a small reimbursement I can claim from the Veteran's Administration and the Flag on his coffin, there are no further "benefits" for him.

I'll go out on a limb and say what my Grand Uncle did in WWII far outweighs Jackson's taxes, grammy awards and gold records any damn day of the week.

:patriot: Absolutely! God Bless Our Soldiers and Veterans.

I'm sorry for your loss. Without people like your Grand Uncle, MJ wouldn't have had the freedom to live as he wished.

It's all very well to appreciate someone's talent, but raising them to a level far beyond any other person because they could sing and dance is just too much for me.

[Unperson1984]

I"m not saying pay for his funeral..... not at all.
The topic started with traffic control, security for the public.
It's a public safety issue at hand, not for the funeral or memorial
at all. At least that is what I'm chatting about.



If the family cannot afford the necessary traffic control and security for a public service, they should have a private service.

IMO

[vonna]

OMG I just got home been gone just a couple of hours turned on the TV in that short amount of time I have heard

No Neverland
New Mommy in the picture says she is the children's mother
Dianna Ross
DEA has joined in the investigation.
I think I could go on and on and on..

And let's not forget the conspiracy theories. Like Michael was looking for a way to abrogate the 50 appearances by going into a coma - thereby being provided with a "doctor's excuse."

[TunaMelt]

I am living the nightmare right here beside you and I'm not too happy either, but it is what is.

BTW I didn't state that Karl Malden was not cool, nice, nor a wonderful actor--- I simply stated I do not see him attracting large crowds, tons of fans, or needing secuity at high levels-- the following is simply not there like Michael Jackson right now. Just my opinion though.

I don't know about that.

I'd say Karl Malden has a huge following.

They're just not as frenzied a bunch as Jackson's.

You really don't need to diss the good guys just to make your point. I get your point. But the truly good actors and entertainers don't need your insults on the day of their death regardless.

[who_is_it]

Sorry if this was posted already but when I read it maybe he knew he thinks he may be attacked: :scared:

Michael's Doc Won't Attend Funeral

Posted Jun 30th 2009 5:14AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson's doctor -- the one who didn't call 911 for 30 minutes after finding MJ unconscious -- won't be attending his funeral, this according to the doc's rep.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/michaels-doc-wont-attend-funeral/

I have to correct what I said in my first reply to your post; it wasn't reported by TMZ but by a poster who watched Dateline.

06-28-2009, 11:59 PM, #95
mrsmcgoo

Dr. being reported as sad. He is getting death threats. He inherited the problems...all via Dr.'s lawyer. (dateline)

[TunaMelt]

:patriot: Absolutely! God Bless Our Soldiers and Veterans.

I'm sorry for your loss. Without people like your Grand Uncle, MJ wouldn't have had the freedom to live as he wished.

It's all very well to appreciate someone's talent, but raising them to a level far beyond any other person because they could sing and dance is just too much for me.

ITA, True.
:thumbup:

[*Serenity*]

<snippet from Blackbird's post>

BTW - what you said about Karl Malden was not cool. He was a nice man and a wonderful actor. Truly an American original.

He may not be Michael Jackson.. but this man was a terrific actor.. he starred in A Street Car Name Desire.. On The Waterfront.. and then moved to television.. he lead a wonderful life with a wife whom he married in 1938.. has a daughter.. won academy award... a well respected actor that doesn't need a white carriage carrying him through the streets of Los Angeles..

We need to get our priorities straight.. I liked Michael Jackson's music.. I liked his dancing.. but he's human.. no better than any other celebrity.. this is getting way out of hand and too bizarre IMO...

This topic has been totally derailed and how it went from traffic control and public safety to this I have no idea. Michael Jackson happens to be the one that has the huge crowds and following for his funeral and memorial right now. Not saying any other actor or actress is any better or any less than him. Farrah had a very private funeral and nothing was reported with all of her fans in the streets and at her home. I don't see or hear any fans in the streets or at Karl's home either. I'm not by any means making any of them less than Michael Jackson-- Michael Jackson's fans/crowds are out there regardless how well the others were. Hence- security and public safety issues at hand for his funeral.

[Unperson1984]

And what does this have to do with public safety and traffic control for a funeral? Did your family need assistance for the funeral recession for traffic to get from the funeral home to the gravesite? Did you not receive that courtesy?

I'm sorry about your loss, I just don't see where this fits in with the topic though. sorry

peace out...

When my mother passed away two months ago, we had to pay for the two Motorcycle Officers to assist with traffic.

[TunaMelt]

This topic has been totally derailed and how it went from traffic control and public safety to this I have no idea. Michael Jackson happens to be the one that has the huge crowds and following for his funeral and memorial right now. Not saying any other actor or actress is any better or any less than him. Farrah had a very private funeral and nothing was reported with all of her fans in the streets and at her home. I don't see or hear any fans in the streets or at Karl's home either. I'm not by any means making any of them less than Michael Jackson-- Michael Jackson's fans/crowds are out there regardless how well the others were. Hence- security and public safety issues at hand for his funeral.

Then the family should foot the expenses.

That's simple and straightforward and no burden on the State of California.

You haven't any problem with the Jackson family shouldering this financial aspect of his funeral, I'm sure.

[CinderL.]

I don't know about that.

I'd say Karl Malden has a huge following.

They're just not as frenzied a bunch as Jackson's.

You really don't need to diss the good guys just to make your point. I get your point. But the truly good actors and entertainers don't need your insults on the day of their death regardless.

I think she just meant that there won't be 1,000's of fans swarming into LA for Karl M. I think he was great too. And yes, his mourners will be much more dignified. Just like Farah's and Ed McManns. They will all be missed.

[*Serenity*]

I don't know about that.

I'd say Karl Malden has a huge following.

They're just not as frenzied a bunch as Jackson's.

You really don't need to diss the good guys just to make your point. I get your point. But the truly good actors and entertainers don't need your insults on the day of their death regardless.

You are taking my posts out of context. I'm not saying anything negative about any of the other actors/actresses. I am simply stating facts as they are-- Michael Jackson has the crowds/fans out in the public right now, which doesn't mean the others do not have a following--just that their following is not in the streets and gathering at their homes. At least I haven't heard about it.

[VC2]

That's an incredible opinion.
Wow.

This country -- and the State of California -- hasn't been in this kind of dire financial straights since Jackson was born. California needs money for a lot of things more important to its entire population than paying for a funeral procession for a pop singer -- the state is paid taxes you are right, but the state's job is to spend that money for the citizenry as a whole, not for one family named Jackson.

Good lord, he sang songs. He danced. He entertained. That's all.

You know, the academy award winning actor Karl Malden died today in California. He was an outstanding actor, I admired him very very much, his performance in "A Streetcar Named Desire" (film and stage) was one of the best ever by any actor.

I would prefer that Karl Malden be carried around California rather than Jackson, and he qualifies as much as does Jackson.

But nobody's crying that the State of CA should pay for Malden's memorial -- and the Malden Family wouldn't have it.

The State deals with matters of the state. Not deaths of entertainers.

I agree with you in general. However there are some things that become larger than an individual and imo this is one of them

MJ is not a head of state but he is a world figure. Just like Elvis was when he died. I am trying to think of a comparison of someone...perhaps the Dali Lama? He is not a head of state either but everyone in the world knows him and most approve (yes there are a few million who do not and they are in china). If he died and lived in Cali, the state would really need to take some responsibility because of the number of dignitaries, celebrities, and public who would come to say goodbye.

MJ i am not comparing in either what he stood for or goodness but if the state does not take some responsibility then they would be derelict in their duties IMO. The number of fans, the number of people, the extreme high emotion over his death can lead to disaster if the state does not step in to help with traffic issues and some security. The public has made him the figure he is...and like him or not, he is a massive world wide icon. His death is going to bring out many.

How often does a president write a letter of condolence to the family of a celebrity? How often does the death bring some of the most famous and well known public figures - again like em or not like JJ and AS - out in support. How often do people commit suicide over the death of a celebrity?

It is not that he was just a dancer and entertainer but that he was an icon, bigger than his life, his flaws, his music. A symbol to millions for different things.

i am not saying he should be, but that its a simple fact.

One reason that i think a large public memorial is necessary, it will give the public a way to say goodbye and lessen the possibility that his gravesite and/or moms home will be swarmed over and broken into. It is not just his family grieving, the world is, for the loss of an icon. Joe was right...what wasn't right was that no father would say that about his son, but it is what many feel. Some deference needs to be given to the public in this case, unless MJ specifically requested no memorial. And i would hate to see the streets of LA if they tried to bury him without LE as part of security

JMO

ETA and i do think the cost should come out of the estate at the end, but that doesn't make it less necessary

[True2Blues]

<snippet from Blackbird's post>

BTW - what you said about Karl Malden was not cool. He was a nice man and a wonderful actor. Truly an American original.

He may not be Michael Jackson.. but this man was a terrific actor.. he starred in A Street Car Name Desire.. On The Waterfront.. and then moved to television.. he lead a wonderful life with a wife whom he married in 1938.. has a daughter.. won academy award... a well respected actor that doesn't need a white carriage carrying him through the streets of Los Angeles..

We need to get our priorities straight.. I liked Michael Jackson's music.. I liked his dancing.. but he's human.. no better than any other celebrity.. this is getting way out of hand and too bizarre IMO...

I agree with you both. Karl Malden was a great actor and a good and decent man, respected in the industry and loved by family and friends. He deserves respect and is in no way less important than Michael Jackson.

[CinderL.]

OK, not to change the subject, well, maybe.....hehe......does anyone know where the story of the Propopol (sp) first started? Did it start with the nurse?

[*Serenity*]

Then the family should foot the expenses.

That's simple and straightforward and no burden on the State of California.

You haven't any problem with the Jackson family shouldering this financial aspect of his funeral, I'm sure.

You are still missing the point and have not followed the rebirth of this topic all together. It reminds me of playing telephone at young age.
By the time the original statement gets to the end of the line it is nothing like the original statement.


It's a public safety issue and it is a matter of protecting citizens and controlling traffic. period

[flipflop]

OK, not to change the subject, well, maybe.....hehe......does anyone know where the story of the Propopol (sp) first started? Did it start with the nurse?

Cinder, I think tmz reported that police found the drug in the home but I am not for sure. I guess I can go look. I saw you ask this earlier and forgot about it.

[Unperson1984]

You are still missing the point and have not followed the rebirth of this topic all together. It reminds me of playing telephone at young age.
By the time the original statement gets to the end of the line it is nothing like the original statement.


It's a public safety issue and it is a matter of protecting citizens and controlling traffic. period

Then the family should have a private service.

[GentleBreeze]

No one gets extra benefits by paying more taxes, nor should they!

The State cannot, and should not, contribute to the cost of a private funeral.

I guess it is state by state but as far as I can remember back police officers where I live have always been involved in funeral processions whether small or a very large procession where the funeral procession is a mile long or more.

They escort the body to the site, stay at the entrances until services are over and if body is to be interned at another place even miles away they accompany the procession to the graveside. If the internment is in another county further away then another LE team will be sitting waiting at the county lines to take over.

If LE expects and knows that a traffic jam may happen in a certain area imo they would be remiss in their duties if they did not do traffic control if need be in those areas. Doesnt matter what the occasion is. It could be a funeral, baseball game or some other big event.

imo

[CinderL.]

Cinder, I think tmz reported that police found the drug in the home but I am not for sure. I guess I can go look. I saw you ask this earlier and forgot about it.


:ohmy: Don't forget about me. It is very important. :laugh: Thanks.

[*Serenity*]

I agree with you in general. However there are some things that become larger than an individual and imo this is one of them

MJ is not a head of state but he is a world figure. Just like Elvis was when he died. I am trying to think of a comparison of someone...perhaps the Dali Lama? He is not a head of state either but everyone in the world knows him and most approve (yes there are a few million who do not and they are in china). If he died and lived in Cali, the state would really need to take some responsibility because of the number of dignitaries, celebrities, and public who would come to say goodbye.

MJ i am not comparing in either what he stood for or goodness but if the state does not take some responsibility then they would be derelict in their duties IMO. The number of fans, the number of people, the extreme high emotion over his death can lead to disaster if the state does not step in to help with traffic issues and some security. The public has made him the figure he is...and like him or not, he is a massive world wide icon. His death is going to bring out many.

How often does a president write a letter of condolence to the family of a celebrity? How often does the death bring some of the most famous and well known public figures - again like em or not like JJ and AS - out in support. How often do people commit suicide over the death of a celebrity?

It is not that he was just a dancer and entertainer but that he was an icon, bigger than his life, his flaws, his music. A symbol to millions for different things.

i am not saying he should be, but that its a simple fact.

One reason that i think a large public memorial is necessary, it will give the public a way to say goodbye and lessen the possibility that his gravesite and/or moms home will be swarmed over and broken into. It is not just his family grieving, the world is, for the loss of an icon. Joe was right...what wasn't right was that no father would say that about his son, but it is what many feel. Some deference needs to be given to the public in this case, unless MJ specifically requested no memorial. And i would hate to see the streets of LA if they tried to bury him without LE as part of security

JMO

ETA and i do think the cost should come out of the estate at the end, but that doesn't make it less necessary


FINALLY................. someone that wrapped their mind around the topic.

^5 and kudos.............. glad to see the topic make a full circle turn back to the original discussion.

[sunstar]

OMG I just got home been gone just a couple of hours turned on the TV in that short amount of time I have heard

No Neverland
New Mommy in the picture says she is the children's mother
Dianna Ross
DEA has joined in the investigation.
I think I could go on and on and on..
The strangest one of all is the "new mommy", but I'm not surprised either to see her surface! MOO

[CinderL.]

The strangest one of all is the "new mommy", but I'm not surprised either to see her surface! MOO

People have posted today that she has been around before.

[vonna]

I guess it is state by state but as far as I can remember back police officers where I live have always been involved in funeral processions whether small or a very large procession where the funeral procession is a mile long or more.

They escort the body to the site, stay at the entrances until services are over and if body is to be interned at another place even miles away they accompany the procession to the graveside. If the internment is in another county further away then another LE team will be sitting waiting at the county lines to take over.

If LE expects and knows that a traffic jam may happen in a certain area imo they would be remiss in their duties if they did not do traffic control if need be in those areas.

imo


I am unaware of extra costs to the city incurred by Farrah's PRIVATE funeral.

[CinderL.]

Cinder, I think tmz reported that police found the drug in the home but I am not for sure. I guess I can go look. I saw you ask this earlier and forgot about it.

Thanks flipflop. I found it, it was TMZ. I didn't know if it was the Nurse that said it first and the media just ran with the story or not. They have been known to do that.

[*Serenity*]

Then the family should have a private service.

They may end up doing that since everything changes from hour to hour. I'm sure his fans will go crazy regarless of what they do.

Public safety will remain to be the issue either way... in my opinion.
The public demands protection - hence the Jackson's are not responsible for public safety... that's what the tax money is for... remember?

:)

[aproudmom]

No one gets extra benefits by paying more taxes, nor should they!

The State cannot, and should not, contribute to the cost of a private funeral.

I know it will be a circus but I would like to ask do you know if the 10 or more cops i saw standing at the gates yesterday at Farrah's funeral and the motorcycle cops that escorted her body to the church.did the family pay for that??I really doubt it..and like I said I know MJ funeral will be huge and hers was private and I loved Farrah and was so sad over her death so in no way am I saying she did not deserve that but I think it happens alot not just with MJ...JMO

[flipflop]

Thanks flipflop. I found it, it was TMZ. I didn't know if it was the Nurse that said it first and the media just ran with the story or not. They have been known to do that.

Ok, good. I had found the article and was trying to read to see if it said "who" found it before I posted it. :smile:

[sunstar]

People have posted today that she has been around before.

Oh ~ well, then it's more understandable. Is she really the surrogate, or do we know?

[Unperson1984]

I guess it is state by state but as far as I can remember back police officers where I live have always been involved in funeral processions whether small or a very large procession where the funeral procession is a mile long or more.

They escort the body to the site, stay at the entrances until services are over and if body is to be interned at another place even miles away they accompany the procession to the graveside. If the internment is in another county further away then another LE team will be sitting waiting at the county lines to take over.

If LE expects and knows that a traffic jam may happen in a certain area imo they would be remiss in their duties if they did not do traffic control if need be in those areas. Doesnt matter what the occasion is. It could be a funeral, baseball game or some other big event.

imo

When a permit is requested to hold a large public event the cost of security is paid by those hosting the event. As I posted above, for my mother's funeral two months ago we were required to pay for two traffic officers from our church to Holy Cross Cemetery.

[aproudmom]

They may end up doing that since everything changes from hour to hour. I'm sure his fans will go crazy regarless of what they do.

Public safety will remain to be the issue either way... in my opinion.
The public demands protection - hence the Jackson's are not responsible for public safety... that's what the tax money is for... remember?

:)

I am sure it will be a nightmare they could hire private security

[dinojen]

They may end up doing that since everything changes from hour to hour. I'm sure his fans will go crazy regarless of what they do.

Public safety will remain to be the issue either way... in my opinion.
The public demands protection - hence the Jackson's are not responsible for public safety... that's what the tax money is for... remember?

:)


Tax money from a state that is handing out IOU's to pay their vendor's...

This is ridiculous.. He's an entertainer.. I totally understand his fan base.. but my god.. why can't they handle his memorial more privately and hold a memorial later where his fans can attend and not make it a nationwide hysteria moment...it's ridiculous.. IMO.

OT for the highway patrol.. OT for the city maintenance.. it goes on and on.. let the family pay for the OT...

YES.. I realize it's MICHAEL JACKSON.. but we.. our state.. does not have the money to pay for his grand procession to where ever he is going.. maybe Daddy Joe can pay for it...

Farrah Fawcett was memorialized yesterday and I could count on two hands how may law enforcement officers were there..

It's just too much... JMO..

[who_is_it]

IMO, because MJ knew by then that he could complete the tour and everything was going very well. He had to know this would once again be a defining moment for him and that he would be right back on top being the big money maker. He knew he now needed a shrewed and savvy lawyer again. Someone deep down he knew he could trust and knew when he asked him to be his lawyer again, he would.

I truly feel the show was going to be such a huge success that MJ would be even more famous than he had been before when he was in his prime. I think MJ knew it was the right time.

imo

I got what the exact reason was why he hired Branca back 8 days before his death -- out of an article published BEFORE his death:

"When I asked him why he was doing this tour now, he said it was because his kids are old enough to appreciate it and he still felt young enough to do it. He's told me that whatever profit he makes from these shows will go into a trust fund for his children."

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article6372171.ece?token=null&offset=24&page=3

He went their 8 days before his death because he wanted to go the profits from the upcoming tour into the trust fund.

I absolutely agree on your last para. Like his vocal trainer said he was ready to take the world back. I believe what his associates said: that it would have been the biggest show ever.

This is why it's so tragic he had to die -- not from my perspective as a possible concert goer but his perspective: in need to be loved again.

[aproudmom]

That's old news. And what does that have to do with Michael Jackson?

Has the Dr. ever been sued for malpractice? Have there been any complaints against him?

imo

No he doesn't have any malpractice suits against him and is not board certified but that is not uncommon just not able to work in a hospital right?

[CinderL.]

Oh ~ well, then it's more understandable. Is she really the surrogate, or do we know?

I highly doubt it. I think she is just a nut. She said she was married to MJ.

[CinderL.]

That's public information and quite frankly, it was a rhetorical question.

And the answer is no.

imo

I just saw on the Fox Sunday morning show the Dr. said people can't get this information. :shrug: don't know.

eta: I stand corrected. You are right, malpractice is public information, complaints aren't. Sorry. I was not sure, that is why I asked the question.
As the Dr. was supposedly the only one in the room with MJ., questions will be asked.

[CinderL.]

I was attemptin to find out his age..since some other poster asked..and others were feeling sorry for Dr. Muuray for his money wooes..that all..Sorry if I offended you with old news..

Geesh!

Your other querry..regarding Diprivan and Dr Murray..That is my speculation only..note my huge highlighted IF's..!!

Are you trying to be confrontational???

LMS

I am getting that feeling. :rolleyes:

[aproudmom]

Tax money from a state that is handing out IOU's to pay their vendor's...

This is ridiculous.. He's an entertainer.. I totally understand his fan base.. but my god.. why can't they handle his memorial more privately and hold a memorial later where his fans can attend and not make it a nationwide hysteria moment...it's ridiculous.. IMO.

OT for the highway patrol.. OT for the city maintenance.. it goes on and on.. let the family pay for the OT...

YES.. I realize it's MICHAEL JACKSON.. but we.. our state.. does not have the money to pay for his grand procession to where ever he is going.. maybe Daddy Joe can pay for it...

Farrah Fawcett was memorialized yesterday and I could count on two hands how may law enforcement officers were there..

It's just too much... JMO..

all I have to say is I am glad I am in Indiana..

[GentleBreeze]

I got what the exact reason was why he hired Branca back 8 days before his death -- out of an article published BEFORE his death:

"When I asked him why he was doing this tour now, he said it was because his kids are old enough to appreciate it and he still felt young enough to do it. He's told me that whatever profit he makes from these shows will go into a trust fund for his children."

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article6372171.ece?token=null&offset=24&page=3

He went their 8 days before his death because he wanted to go the profits from the upcoming tour into the trust fund.

I absolutely agree on your last para. Like his vocal trainer said he was ready to take the world back. I believe what his associates said: that it would have been the biggest show ever.

This is why it's so tragic he had to die -- not from my perspective as a possible concert goer but his perspective: in need to be loved again.

That is such a heartwarming story. I will always believe MJ lived for his three children.

Do we know if they got to see him rehearse?

I know they will eventually see the videos they took of him. I am sure they will think their daddy was the coolest ever.

:rose:

[incidentally]

I know it will be a circus but I would like to ask do you know if the 10 or more cops i saw standing at the gates yesterday at Farrah's funeral and the motorcycle cops that escorted her body to the church.did the family pay for that??I really doubt it..and like I said I know MJ funeral will be huge and hers was private and I loved Farrah and was so sad over her death so in no way am I saying she did not deserve that but I think it happens alot not just with MJ...JMO

I believe in my state, any officers that participate in a funeral, in any capacity, are provided at a cost to the family. Those exempt are highly recognized public servants as well as fire fighters and police officers (Law enforcement officers) killed in the line of duty.

[*Serenity*]

I am sure it will be a nightmare they could hire private security

They may already have that in place.. I don't really know. AND if they do have that in place I don't see private security would be enough for the public and traffic control.

While watching some of Michaels video clips last night the crowds get pretty crazy and out of control... a few women were hanging on the side of his limo and being drug down the street. Nuts... and then massive crowds were running after the limo or whatever vehicle he was in. Scarey stuff.

[aproudmom]

Tax money from a state that is handing out IOU's to pay their vendor's...

This is ridiculous.. He's an entertainer.. I totally understand his fan base.. but my god.. why can't they handle his memorial more privately and hold a memorial later where his fans can attend and not make it a nationwide hysteria moment...it's ridiculous.. IMO.

OT for the highway patrol.. OT for the city maintenance.. it goes on and on.. let the family pay for the OT...

YES.. I realize it's MICHAEL JACKSON.. but we.. our state.. does not have the money to pay for his grand procession to where ever he is going.. maybe Daddy Joe can pay for it...

Farrah Fawcett was memorialized yesterday and I could count on two hands how may law enforcement officers were there..

It's just too much... JMO..

oh dino you know my post was not directed in a bad way about security and cops at her funeral I was just saying it does happen also you know I loved her to death..but you know what I am not a tax payer there so I am going to not even comment on that stuff the ones that are have their right to voice out their concern over the traffic, crime, safety, and so on...I think they could get private security and should

OMG the Mayor of Gray is on LKL he wants MJ body so bad..:rolleyes:

[CinderL.]

all I have to say is I am glad I am in Indiana..

Don't be to sure. Not if you are in Gary. He may go there. The mayor is on right now on LKL, and pushing for it. :ohmy:

[flipflop]

Michael Jackson Funeral

Posted Jul 1st 2009 9:47PM by TMZ Staff

Everyone's speculating on Michael Jackson's funeral. We know three things for sure.

-- it won't be until next week


Newest TMZ post. http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/michael-jackson-funeral/

[*Serenity*]

Tax money from a state that is handing out IOU's to pay their vendor's...

This is ridiculous.. He's an entertainer.. I totally understand his fan base.. but my god.. why can't they handle his memorial more privately and hold a memorial later where his fans can attend and not make it a nationwide hysteria moment...it's ridiculous.. IMO.

OT for the highway patrol.. OT for the city maintenance.. it goes on and on.. let the family pay for the OT...

YES.. I realize it's MICHAEL JACKSON.. but we.. our state.. does not have the money to pay for his grand procession to where ever he is going.. maybe Daddy Joe can pay for it...

Farrah Fawcett was memorialized yesterday and I could count on two hands how may law enforcement officers were there..

It's just too much... JMO..


I'm not in charge of what becomes of this madness, I am just a California resident speaking out about public safety, controlling crowds, traffic issues, and overall protection from a crowd that can easily get out of control. I don't plan on going anywhere near the memorial unless it happens to be Sunday on my way to LAX to pick up my grandson.

As for nationwide hysteria moment.... some fans have already taken their lives so I don't see too many of the diehard followers backing off from MJ having a funeral/memorial. Seriously.

[VC2]

oh dino you know my post was not directed in a bad way about security and cops at her funeral I was just saying it does happen also you know I loved her to death..but you know what I am not a tax payer there so I am going to not even comment on that stuff the ones that are have their right to voice out their concern over the traffic, crime, safety, and so on...I think they could get private security and should

OMG the Mayor of Gray is on LKL he wants MJ body so bad..:rolleyes:

isn't that disgusting? I could have seen a dignified letter to the family saying that if they chose to do so Gary Indiana would be happy to arrange for MJ to be laid to rest there and develop a park around it, but not this almost begging for his body.

IIRC i don't think MJ ever went back and certainly did not have a bunch of happy memories from it

IMO

eta, has anyone checked flights into LA, both national and international for seat availability this week? I am wondering how many are sold.

[CinderL.]

I will drop this from now on..but you indeed are making accusations based on what?? Dr. Murray was the Dr. there..who was hired to look after his patient at $150,000.00 a month, and if you know anything about this drug..no layperson could administer this drug let alone get ahold of it....so take it for what it's worth.. The term malign..well, that is possible..but I am sure it is rather tame compared what others have been saying..and not even couching it with IF's

I would appreciate a smigget of respect..when I give an opinion..even if it does not comport to your line of thinking..I always try to respect others..and even show some considerations for why they think their way.

With that..I will drop this silliness..
Have a great evening..

LMS:rolleyes:

If that drug was in his system, and IF that drug killed him, someone had to give it to him.

[who_is_it]

That is such a heartwarming story. I will always believe MJ lived for his three children.

Do we know if they got to see him rehearse?

I know they will eventually see the videos they took of him. I am sure they will think their daddy was the coolest ever.

:rose:

Yes, I'm pretty sure they saw him rehearsing. Before Michael's death they were photographed when they went with their father and Kenny Ortega into a studio. I remember Athena posted a pic, mentioning that the son walks like his dad.

By all tragedy the positive is that he was surrounded by his old peers during his last months and not by all the evil advisors of the time before.

[*Serenity*]

Michael Jackson Funeral

Posted Jul 1st 2009 9:47PM by TMZ Staff

Everyone's speculating on Michael Jackson's funeral. We know three things for sure.

-- it won't be until next week


Newest TMZ post.

Thanks flipflop.

According to the statement it will be in the LA area somewhere, possibly Staples but nothing confimed.

Well this settles the 4th of July weekend madness.

whew..........

[Imperfect4]

Okay, well, two weeks ago I buried my 94 year old Grand Uncle.

He was a WWII Veteran, Patton's 3rd Army. Other than a small reimbursement I can claim from the Veteran's Administration and the Flag on his coffin, there are no further "benefits" for him.

I'll go out on a limb and say what my Grand Uncle did in WWII far outweighs Jackson's taxes, grammy awards and gold records any damn day of the week.

:smile:

Thanks for the Reality Check.

There are pop icons. And then there are real heros. :patriot:

[sunstar]

I highly doubt it. I think she is just a nut. She said she was married to MJ.

Yes I noticed she 'adopted' his last name. I do remember hearing something about her before, like maybe the same claim she has now? :scared: MOO

[CinderL.]

:laugh:..Really???(sarcasm meant..) And I dont believe his body guards, or his kids would know the first thing about administering this stuff??

Course..I could be jumping to conclusions..as per some believe..:ohmy:

LMS:

Well, I jumped right along with you. LOL . I also jumped on the dermatologist too. :scared:

I had to steal your "wink".

[*Serenity*]

isn't that disgusting? I could have seen a dignified letter to the family saying that if they chose to do so Gary Indiana would be happy to arrange for MJ to be laid to rest there and develop a park around it, but not this almost begging for his body.

IIRC i don't think MJ ever went back and certainly did not have a bunch of happy memories from it

IMO

eta, has anyone checked flights into LA, both national and international for seat availability this week? I am wondering how many are sold.

My grandson is flying into LAX Sunday... just got his ticket yesterday and United only had a few seats left.

[CinderL.]

Yes, but those are alot of "IFS" for someone to get so angry about.

That's all I was saying.

She was also angry about the CPR IIRC. As a medical professional she can be angry if another professional maybe screwed up. As to this drug, someone had to give it to MJ. It is fast acting. The Dr. himself said he was the only one there. He had to leave MJ to find help. That would, in my mind lead to speculation about the Dr. Unless he was not telling the truth about something.

[aproudmom]

They may already have that in place.. I don't really know. AND if they do have that in place I don't see private security would be enough for the public and traffic control.

While watching some of Michaels video clips last night the crowds get pretty crazy and out of control... a few women were hanging on the side of his limo and being drug down the street. Nuts... and then massive crowds were running after the limo or whatever vehicle he was in. Scarey stuff.

O I know when I watched the tape of them trying to get in the Hospital and sitting off fire alarms I was thinking I would not want to be near there..I just do not see how they will do it some had already got rooms and stuff there for Friday I am sure not so happy it has changed..maybe they should have had a private funeral and a memorial like they did at the APOLLO

[aproudmom]

Yes, but those are alot of "IFS" for someone to get so angry about.

That's all I was saying.

The thing I ask is do we even know it was that drug that was found if not then it makes a huge diffrence the doctor may have just been the unlucky one to be there..

[CinderL.]

The thing I ask is do we even know it was that drug that was found if not then it makes a huge diffrence the doctor may have just been the unlucky one to be there..


From TMZ

"DEA Will Assist in Jackson Case

Posted Jul 1st 2009 9:48PM by TMZ Staff

Law enforcement sources tell TMZ the LAPD has asked the DEA to assist them in its investigation into multiple doctors who treated and prescribed medications for Michael Jackson.

The LAPD wants help in tracking down the source of medications. As we first reported, the powerful anesthesia Propofol was found in Jackson's home and it appears he got the drug through an IV before he died."
********

They seem pretty sure that Propofol was found. So who gave it to him, that is the question.

[aproudmom]

She was also angry about the CPR IIRC. As a medical professional she can be angry if another professional maybe screwed up. As to this drug, someone had to give it to MJ. It is fast acting. The Dr. himself said he was the only one there. He had to leave MJ to find help. That would, in my mind lead to speculation about the Dr. Unless he was not telling the truth about something.

sounds like it is a drug that does not stay in your body very long from what Dr. SANJU G said on LKL..So if they were not even looking for this drug they would not usually test for it...humm

[*Serenity*]

O I know when I watched the tape of them trying to get in the Hospital and sitting off fire alarms I was thinking I would not want to be near there..I just do not see how they will do it some had already got rooms and stuff there for Friday I am sure not so happy it has changed..maybe they should have had a private funeral and a memorial like they did at the APOLLO

With his large following a public memorial with sufficient facilities, parking, seating, emergency medical, etc. would be the only way to control the crowds.. in my opinion AND especially without his body anywhere near the memorial. I think if his body is present it will make the crowd even nuttier than they already are.

[CinderL.]

sounds like it is a drug that does not stay in your body very long from what Dr. SANJU G said on LKL..So if they were not even looking for this drug they would not usually test for it...humm

I don't know if you can test for it, but, from what I was told, and what has been posted......you start the drip.....you go right to sleep....you stop the drip and you wake up right away. It is almost immediate. 30 seconds or so.

[boo]

I was attemptin to find out his age..since some other poster asked..and others were feeling sorry for Dr. Muuray for his money wooes..that all..Sorry if I offended you with old news..

Geesh!

Your other querry..regarding Diprivan and Dr Murray..That is my speculation only..note my huge highlighted IF's..!!

Are you trying to be confrontational???

LMS

Thank you, LyndawithaY, it was me who asked his age and I'm sorry that somebody couldn't handle it. Sheesh is right.

Awww Blackbird, your uncle truly was an American Hero and deserves all the respect and dignity in the world.

So, anyway... how's that age thing coming? :sneaky:

[dinojen]

oh dino you know my post was not directed in a bad way about security and cops at her funeral I was just saying it does happen also you know I loved her to death..but you know what I am not a tax payer there so I am going to not even comment on that stuff the ones that are have their right to voice out their concern over the traffic, crime, safety, and so on...I think they could get private security and should

OMG the Mayor of Gray is on LKL he wants MJ body so bad..:rolleyes:

Silly Mom.. I know that... it's just all this planning in a state that is in such financial turmoil and we are suppose to cover the cost of security for something of the extent that this memorial would cause.. I realize he recognized world wide.. but why are the taxpayers of CA expected to pay for this security or the OT for the traffic control... it's just ridiculous IMO...

That mayor from IN has been begging from the day Jackson stopped breathing for them to bring soul back to his beginnings... :rolleyes:
Everyone has their motives and their hands out.. IMO

[*Serenity*]

From TMZ

"DEA Will Assist in Jackson Case

Posted Jul 1st 2009 9:48PM by TMZ Staff

Law enforcement sources tell TMZ the LAPD has asked the DEA to assist them in its investigation into multiple doctors who treated and prescribed medications for Michael Jackson.

The LAPD wants help in tracking down the source of medications. As we first reported, the powerful anesthesia Propofol was found in Jackson's home and it appears he got the drug through an IV before he died."
********

They seem pretty sure that Propofol was found. So who gave it to him, that is the question.

WOW... JUST WOW.... is all I can say. He was literally put to sleep.
I see someone / possibly a few here that may face some criminal charges.

[flipflop]

Thank you, LyndawithaY, it was me who asked his age and I'm sorry that somebody couldn't handle it. Sheesh is right.

Awww Blackbird, your uncle truly was an American Hero and deserves all the respect and dignity in the world.

So, anyway... how's that age thing coming? :sneaky:

Let me go dig, but I think the doctor is 50/51.

[aproudmom]

From TMZ

"DEA Will Assist in Jackson Case

Posted Jul 1st 2009 9:48PM by TMZ Staff

Law enforcement sources tell TMZ the LAPD has asked the DEA to assist them in its investigation into multiple doctors who treated and prescribed medications for Michael Jackson.

The LAPD wants help in tracking down the source of medications. As we first reported, the powerful anesthesia Propofol was found in Jackson's home and it appears he got the drug through an IV before he died."
********

They seem pretty sure that Propofol was found. So who gave it to him, that is the question.

my bolding

Yeah I know I posted that up thread but until I know for a fact it is that drug TMZ has put out so much crap and the DEA does not even track this drug because it is not used at home or not suppose to be anyway..I am not saying it was not there Cinder I am just saying I do not go by TMZ and their sources..

[VC2]

Thanks flipflop.

According to the statement it will be in the LA area somewhere, possibly Staples but nothing confimed.

Well this settles the 4th of July weekend madness.

whew..........

probably a good idea, but it also cancels the private funeral plans which suggests to me that there was a real upset in all the plans.

You know..i am thinking that apart from the skids put on NL friday by LE, someone with some sense has stepped in, perhaps Branca and the directions in the trust for his death.

At the least this will give time for Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton stop fighting like kangaroo's over who officiates :laugh: - serenity i have to take a girl to the vet tomorrow morning, i hope to come home to read another summary of the days news like that..what a phrase - and for sensible logistics.

I really hope that they do give the fans a chance to say good bye (btw with all the complaints about cost if LE provides security, think of the boost to LA's economy with the fans arriving-hotels, restaurants etc)

I also hope they announce the plans shortly giving ppl time to amend travel arrangements too. It also will allow the battle in court on monday to stand alone with the news :D

[who_is_it]

'Endless' supply of music in Jackson's vaults
copyright AP
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h1B0rMvik5AEmpsOqBnnYsibFV0wD995U5G80

The article quotes Sony man Mottola that there's a "mountain" of new music and that the releases could go on "years over years".

[CinderL.]

my bolding

Yeah I know I posted that up thread but until I know for a fact it is that drug TMZ has put out so much crap and the DEA does not even track this drug because it is not used at home or not suppose to be anyway..I am not saying it was not there Cinder I am just saying I do not go by TMZ and their sources..

I think the DEA was brought in to look into all of the other drugs that were found.

I don't go by TMZ either. But, so far they have been on the money.

[boo]

Let me go dig, but I think the doctor is 50/51.

Thank you, flipflop. Guess I was OCD'ing over it a little. My mind is at ease now. :wink:

[velvetbrown]

As I've posted before, I loved Michael and his many talents...however, I've always wondered if Joe Jackson had MJ made a 'castrata'. It was a procedure done ages ago to keep young choirboys with an ability to hit the high notes after puberty.


That would be one explaination as to why he did not father his own children, his friendships with young boys,and the Peter Pan Syndrome...just pondering...

[who_is_it]

... specially for Athena....

Spike Lee joins thousands in New York to pay tribute to Michael Jackson

http://news-briefs.ew.com/2009/06/spike-lee-joins-thousands-in-new-york-to-pay-tribute-to-michael-jackson-.html

Probably you already knew...

[aproudmom]

is anyone watching Anderson Cooper.they are talking about how hard it is to get..who the heck could have got this stuff

[CinderL.]

sounds like it is a drug that does not stay in your body very long from what Dr. SANJU G said on LKL..So if they were not even looking for this drug they would not usually test for it...humm

I found this article. And, this was self administered. :ohmy:

*************

Evaluation of a fatal propofol intoxication due to self administration
Purchase the full-text article



References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.

Gabriella Klausz Dipl PharmCorresponding Author Contact Information, a, E-mail The Corresponding Author, Kálmán Róna PhDa, István Kristóf MDa and Klára Törő MD PhDa

aSemmelweis University, Department of Forensic and Insurance Medicine, Üllői út 93, 1091 Budapest, Hungary

Received 24 July 2008;
revised 20 October 2008;
accepted 11 December 2008.
Available online 23 January 2009.

Abstract

Propofol is a short acting intravenous anaesthetic, active agent of Diprivan. The abuse potential of propofol has not completely defined, but there are anecdotal case reports in the literature about propofol abuse and dependency. This report presents a fatal case of a middle age female victim who died of self-administered propofol intoxication. The propofol level of the blood sample was measured with gas chromatography–mass spectrometry after liquid–liquid extraction. The results of toxicological investigation suggested that death was not directly caused by propofol intoxication, however, based on the pathomorphological changes detected during the medico-legal autopsy we supposed that the fatal outcome was resulted by respiratory depression after rapid injection.

Keywords: Forensic science; Propofol intoxication; Toxicological evaluation; Gas chromatography–mass spectrometry

[boo]

As I've posted before, I loved Michael and his many talents...however, I've always wondered if Joe Jackson had MJ made a 'castrata'. It was a procedure done ages ago to keep young choirboys with an ability to hit the high notes after puberty.


That would be one explaination as to why he did not father his own children, his friendships with young boys,and the Peter Pan Syndrome...just pondering...

Would also explain why Liza Minelli said "all hell would break loose when the autopsy was concluded". Not saying I believe it, but I believe that she is right in that assessment.

[CinderL.]

If you recall, I was the one who posted yesterday about the TMZ deprivan report and what the nurse said. IIRC the TMZ report came out about the same time as the nurse's story. I found that strange.

But if true, of course someone gave it to him and it could have well been Dr Murray. But I certainly would not condemn him that strongly without knowing and I guess I'm surprised that anyone else would.

imo

Time will tell. The IF's. Who got this drug? Who administered it? Who was with him? IF it was the Dr., he is in big trouble. I sure don't have the answers, or I would be making a lot of money with my psychic abilities.

[velvetbrown]

CinderL,
My husband is an anesthesiologist, and Diprovan is indeed a difficult drug to obtain...

[boo]

LOL! I can handle his age.

Dr. Murray is 56.

imo

Thank you!

Edited because I wasn't finished. Has anybody found out what the connection to MJ is with this doctor and where he came from? I've heard everything from "he treated a sick kid" to him being part of the Nation of Islam group to "one of his brothers introduced him to Murray".

Just curious.

[aproudmom]

I think the DEA was brought in to look into all of the other drugs that were found.

I don't go by TMZ either. But, so far they have been on the money.

yeah you know what as soon as I hit the button I thought of that they are being brought in for other medications that was why they said this drug was not on the DEA list of tracking..I am thinking it could have killed him Cinder I am just wondering how in the heck any one got this all I have heard is mainly only health care providers in a hospital become addicted to it and Pharmacies would not even have it..ALL I GOT TO SAY IS if they find this stuff someone can go down big time..

[CinderL.]

As I've posted before, I loved Michael and his many talents...however, I've always wondered if Joe Jackson had MJ made a 'castrata'. It was a procedure done ages ago to keep young choirboys with an ability to hit the high notes after puberty.


That would be one explaination as to why he did not father his own children, his friendships with young boys,and the Peter Pan Syndrome...just pondering...
:ohmy:....

[CinderL.]

CinderL,
My husband is an anesthesiologist, and Diprovan is indeed a difficult drug to obtain...

Thanks. I would think that very few would be able to get it. Would you ask your husband if any MD can get it? TIA

[flipflop]

Thank you!


Thanks from me too!! I went back what seems like a gazillion pages on TMZ and still haven't found it. (got a little sidetracked too)

[boo]

Did they read the part of the will where MJ gives Paul McCartney the catalog? That'd be a happy ending to a sad story.

[aproudmom]

CinderL,
My husband is an anesthesiologist, and Diprovan is indeed a difficult drug to obtain...

they are the ones I talk to I feel like they have my life in their hands almost more than a doctor..can not be a easy job..but the few small surgery's I have had they have been so wonderful because I am a worrier..lol..so they like to knock me out real fast

[CinderL.]

yeah you know what as soon as I hit the button I thought of that they are being brought in for other medications that was why they said this drug was not on the DEA list of tracking..I am thinking it could have killed him Cinder I am just wondering how in the heck any one got this all I have heard is mainly only health care providers in a hospital become addicted to it and Pharmacies would not even have it..ALL I GOT TO SAY IS if they find this stuff someone can go down big time..

That is what we have been saying. :smile:

[*Serenity*]

If you recall, I was the one who posted yesterday about the TMZ deprivan report and what the nurse said. IIRC the TMZ report came out about the same time as the nurse's story. I found that strange.

But if true, of course someone gave it to him and it could have well been Dr Murray. But I certainly would not condemn him that strongly without knowing and I guess I'm surprised that anyone else would.

imo


With what we know right now Dr Murray was the only person with Michael. Supposedly the children were in their rooms according to one report and another report was the oldest son thought Michael was joking around when he fell to the floor.

Still.. no other reports about any other adult or doctor at the home. Not sure about any other adults or doctors that happen to come and go before noon, so unless this Dr. speaks up he will be the target. The other target behind the Dr. will be whoever supplied him with this IV/Drug.

[aproudmom]

Did they read the part of the will where MJ gives Paul McCartney the catalog? That'd be a happy ending to a sad story.

I did not see that on there

[StickyBeak]

I've been lurking here for weeks it seems, just passing by but just have to say my peace. I was not a MJ fan except for back in 82-84 when I took my children to Disney World in Orlando. We went into one of the Haunted Castle rides I think and thoughout this the "Thriller" songs played. It was amazing to say the least.
I feel so sad for these children that Michael loved so dearly. I am pleased to read "guardianship" is in his Mothers (Katherine) hands. This Diana Ross second choice is baffeling to me at this time. I hate the thought that MJ's Father Joseph could have anything to say in this matter and perhaps that may explain his off the wall remarks made at the award ceremony, IMO. They knew in advance. I can't fanthom that MJ's Mom would have went into court knowing there was a will in a safe just waiting for release, unless in the event of a medical incident with regard to the children, she may have needed some legal coverage.
So very sad, the original arrangements, to me, were nothing less than a circus side show. Come see a superstars body in an encased glass casket! Were they charging?
I hope this Man is laid to rest very soon and privately for his childrens sake. RIP Michael Jackson, may you children find peaceful lives and happiness. JMO

[CinderL.]

Did they read the part of the will where MJ gives Paul McCartney the catalog? That'd be a happy ending to a sad story.

If that is true, it would probably be in the trust papers, I am thinking. ??

[velvetbrown]

Thanks. I would think that very few would be able to get it. Would you ask your husband if any MD can get it? TIA
It is almost impossible to get unless you are an animal vet, or can steal the meds from a vet, if you are a PharmD (a pharmacologist who does research or works only in hospital pharmacy), an OR nurse who can steal the drug, or an anesthesiologist or an anesthetist who could steal the drug from the hospital Pixis an charge it to a pt who had surgery, but never GOT the drug...

[boo]

Thanks from me too!! I went back what seems like a gazillion pages on TMZ and still haven't found it. (got a little sidetracked too)

Oh man, that sidetrack thing is a real buzz kill. I started off earlier today Googling Michael Jackson and ended up on EBay, bidding on a Parker Brothers Board Game from 1938. I still don't know how that happened but I think I'm gonna win it. :sneaky:

[CinderL.]

I've been lurking here for weeks it seems, just passing by but just have to say my peace. I was not a MJ fan except for back in 82-84 when I took my children to Disney World in Orlando. We went into one of the Haunted Castle rides I think and thoughout this the "Thriller" songs played. It was amazing to say the least.
I feel so sad for these children that Michael loved so dearly. I am pleased to read "guardianship" is in his Mothers (Katherine) hands. This Diana Ross second choice is baffeling to me at this time. I hate the thought that MJ's Father Joseph could have anything to say in this matter and perhaps that may explain his off the wall remarks made at the award ceremony, IMO. They knew in advance. I can't fanthom that MJ's Mom would have went into court knowing there was a will in a safe just waiting for release, unless in the event of a medical incident with regard to the children, she may have needed some legal coverage.
So very sad, the original arrangements, to me, were nothing less than a circus side show. Come see a superstars body in an encased glass casket! Were they charging?
I hope this Man is laid to rest very soon and privately for his childrens sake. RIP Michael Jackson, may you children find peaceful lives and happiness. JMO

Very nice post. :smile:

stick around.

[boo]

I did not see that on there

Oops, I should have put a disclaimer in there that this was just a dream, aproudmom, but thank you. :smile:

[velvetbrown]

they are the ones I talk to I feel like they have my life in their hands almost more than a doctor..can not be a easy job..but the few small surgery's I have had they have been so wonderful because I am a worrier..lol..so they like to knock me out real fast

Anesthesiologists are MD's, anesthestists are specially trained RN's who can only work under the supervision of an anesthesiologist...

[crazydazy]

As I've posted before, I loved Michael and his many talents...however, I've always wondered if Joe Jackson had MJ made a 'castrata'. It was a procedure done ages ago to keep young choirboys with an ability to hit the high notes after puberty.


That would be one explaination as to why he did not father his own children, his friendships with young boys,and the Peter Pan Syndrome...just pondering...

This is not the first time I have heard this. I have a friend in L.A. that has been telling me this since the trials...that no way could it be true about the molestation and that the accusers were paid so the truth about him being "castrata" would be kept quiet.
Wonder if its true will it be made public when the autopsy results are in?

[aproudmom]

That is what we have been saying. :smile:

I know I have been to but what I wonder about this doctor he had no privileges at a Hospital IIRC is it easy for Doctors to get who do not practice in a hospital since it is used to put people out..:confused:

[CinderL.]

It is almost impossible to get unless you are an animal vet, or can steal the meds from a vet, if you are a PharmD (a pharmacologist who does research or works only in hospital pharmacy), an OR nurse who can steal the drug, or an anesthesiologist or an anesthetist who could steal the drug from the hospital Pixis an charge it to a pt who had surgery, but never GOT the drug...

That is what I thought. Thanks so much. My ER friend said when they use it, which is often, mostly for kids with broken bones, it is very, very controlled, and all of the precautions that have already been mentioned are employed. :smile:

PS. We love our anesthesiologists. Thanks.

[aproudmom]

This is not the first time I have heard this. I have a friend in L.A. that has been telling me this since the trials...that no way could it be true about the molestation and that the accusers were paid so the truth about him being "castrata" would be kept quiet.
Wonder if its true will it be made public when the autopsy results are in?

:w00t:omg I have no clue I have read alot of autopsy's but have no idea never heard this before..the family can fight to keep it sealed but does not mean it will happen or would not leak out somehow I guess..

[CinderL.]

Ok, um....I'm afraid to ask but....is castrata what I think it is?????:blushing:

I think so. :ohmy:

[StickyBeak]

This is not the first time I have heard this. I have a friend in L.A. that has been telling me this since the trials...that no way could it be true about the molestation and that the accusers were paid so the truth about him being "castrata" would be kept quiet.
Wonder if its true will it be made public when the autopsy results are in?

Hate to bring this up, but in MJ's court case, did they not have the accuser descripe MJ's genitals?
This does sound reasonable, "Castrata", I always wondered how he could possibly have that high voice for a male. Shot full of Progesterone, Good Lord if this comes to light, I can't type what I wish they would do to this man as Katherine stood by. JMO

[aproudmom]

It is almost impossible to get unless you are an animal vet, or can steal the meds from a vet, if you are a PharmD (a pharmacologist who does research or works only in hospital pharmacy), an OR nurse who can steal the drug, or an anesthesiologist or an anesthetist who could steal the drug from the hospital Pixis an charge it to a pt who had surgery, but never GOT the drug...

thank you just what I was thinking..since they said the cases of abuse is usually in the health care field..such as taking it without telling..

[CinderL.]

Hate to bring this up, but in MJ's court case, did they not have the accuser descripe MJ's genitals?
This does sound reasonable, "Castrata", I always wondered how he could possibly have that high voice for a male. Shot full of Progesterone, Good Lord if this comes to light, I can't type what I wish they would do to this man as Katherine stood by. JMO

"Castrata" ?????:wink:

[aproudmom]

I think so. :ohmy:

yep I am sure it is just what your thinking:laugh:

[CinderL.]

If the drug was in the home then someone who works in a hospital got it for him and probably stole it. :ohmy:

It also could have been self-administered.

I'm not ruling out Dr. Murray.

imo

True, the forensic report I posted was self administered, but was a nurse, if IIRC. But, even if he did self administer, someone had to take out the IV before the EMT's got there.

And yes, I am thinking someone stole it ......or that brings me to the dermatologist, who may have done out patient surgeries in his office. Not saying that is so....just saying.

[CinderL.]

Um...ahem...as in removal of a body part??? :ohmy:

:blushing: Well, I am sure I don't know. :laugh:

[aproudmom]

If the drug was in the home then someone who works in a hospital got it for him and probably stole it. :ohmy:

It also could have been self-administered.

I'm not ruling out Dr. Murray.

imo

yep that is why I thought it had to be someone that could get their hands on it..they do not track it since it is not a controlled substance..sounds like they may be adding it to their list of tracking after this per CNN and the hot doc on there..:biggrin:

[CinderL.]

Also true.
and go back and read my edit please. :wink:

[VC2]

yeah you know what as soon as I hit the button I thought of that they are being brought in for other medications that was why they said this drug was not on the DEA list of tracking..I am thinking it could have killed him Cinder I am just wondering how in the heck any one got this all I have heard is mainly only health care providers in a hospital become addicted to it and Pharmacies would not even have it..ALL I GOT TO SAY IS if they find this stuff someone can go down big time..

i havent read anything about addiction with it, it does not seem to me an addictive drug. All it does is knock you out, and most addicts like the way a drug makes you feel - takes a way pain, relaxes you, calms, gives you the fuzzies - if they are into narcotics. For example, i am not an addict but the few times i need demerol i totally enjoy it lol and see how someone can become addicted to it. It works best for me as a pain killer and i get a tooth abcess about once a year, so i have 10 pills or so then.

This drug doesn't do any of that, just makes you go to sleep immediately. I mean there isn't time to feel anything or get a high.

jmo

[aproudmom]

True, the forensic report I posted was self administered, but was a nurse, if IIRC. But, even if he did self administer, someone had to take out the IV before the EMT's got there.

And yes, I am thinking someone stole it ......or that brings me to the dermatologist, who may have done out patient surgeries in his office. Not saying that is so....just saying.

very true Cinder wonder if they could tell if he had a IV's in that morning I would think so since they saw the needle marks on his chest when they were trying to get his heart beat back..did it say on anything you read just how long it stays in your system the Doc on CNN said it is very fast

[StickyBeak]

"Castrata" ?????:wink:

Sorry, I copied from a previous poster without doing research. I assumed the OP meant, sexual reassignment.

[aproudmom]

i havent read anything about addiction with it, it does not seem to me an addictive drug. All it does is knock you out, and most addicts like the way a drug makes you feel - takes a way pain, relaxes you, calms, gives you the fuzzies - if they are into narcotics. For example, i am not an addict but the few times i need demerol i totally enjoy it lol and see how someone can become addicted to it. It works best for me as a pain killer and i get a tooth abcess about once a year, so i have 10 pills or so then.

This drug doesn't do any of that, just makes you go to sleep immediately. I mean there isn't time to feel anything or get a high.

jmo

ok VC give me a break I just got back from a bunch of 13yr olds ..lol..I may have worded it wrong it is usually being used by people in the health care filed...there is that better:wink:
I know it is not listed under a controlled substance I take Xanax and know you have to be very careful or you can become addicted or need more and more but not me I have never abused anything...and never wanted to feel like I did not have control so never touched drugs...

[dinojen]

I read somewhere earlier after MJ's death that he left a portfolio of music that has been unrecorded to his children... can you imagine the worth of Michael's unpublished music.. he was smart in what he did IMO to protect and insure his children were taken care of.

Would be interesting to hear what these songs in this portfolio say.. jmo..

[boo]

I read somewhere earlier after MJ's death that he left a portfolio of music that has been unrecorded to his children... can you imagine the worth of Michael's unpublished music.. he was smart in what he did IMO to protect and insure his children were taken care of.

Would be interesting to hear what these songs in this portfolio say.. jmo..

Probably really heartbreaking for his kids to listen to but what a great thing for him to do for them.

[velvetbrown]

ok VC give me a break I just got back from a bunch of 13yr olds ..lol..I may have worded it wrong it is usually being used by people in the health care filed...there is that better:wink:
I know it is not listed under a controlled substance I take Xanax and know you have to be very careful or you can become addicted or need more and more but not me I have never abused anything...and never wanted to feel like I did not have control so never touched drugs...

Diprovan or generic propophol is a very controlled substance- that is why it is only available in a hospital or in a licensed operating facility. It is NEVER available to the public as it is only an IV med.

[aproudmom]

i havent read anything about addiction with it, it does not seem to me an addictive drug. All it does is knock you out, and most addicts like the way a drug makes you feel - takes a way pain, relaxes you, calms, gives you the fuzzies - if they are into narcotics. For example, i am not an addict but the few times i need demerol i totally enjoy it lol and see how someone can become addicted to it. It works best for me as a pain killer and i get a tooth abcess about once a year, so i have 10 pills or so then.

This drug doesn't do any of that, just makes you go to sleep immediately. I mean there isn't time to feel anything or get a high.

jmo

Did that nurse not say that was why she came forward because she wanted people to know MJ was not a addict he just wanted to sleep and be rested?? and he did not want the high feeling just energy and sleep..not that I think he did not take other prescription medications

[crazydazy]

:blushing: Well, I am sure I don't know. :laugh:

Like made into a eunich...castration.
I truly hope its just a rumor that I have heard many times over the years but if it is true it would explain alot. But as a previous poster said..didnt the accuser describe his genitals and werent pictures taken? I dont really know..the whole situation is just sad. I wish the reports would just hurry so all the speculation(including mine) could end and the man could rest in peace.

[dinojen]

ok VC give me a break I just got back from a bunch of 13yr olds ..lol..I may have worded it wrong it is usually being used by people in the health care filed...there is that better:wink:
I know it is not listed under a controlled substance I take Xanax and know you have to be very careful or you can become addicted or need more and more but not me I have never abused anything...and never wanted to feel like I did not have control so never touched drugs...


One I wouldn't take demerol for anything... I'll live through the pain.. (not referring to you Mom..my brother takes Xanax and swears by it).. many drugs you can become addicted to whether you intend to or not.. my middle son use to sleep with his inhaler for asthma under his pillow.. I finally said.. dude.. it's to be used when you need it.. not when you want it... use it enough it gives you a adrenalin kind of rush.. he finally weaned himself off of it.. many drugs can be addicting without the intention.

I wish MJ would of had people around him that really cared about him.. I don't think one hand knew what the other hand was doing medication wise and if he truly wanted it.. who was going to say NO to Michael Jackson...

Truly a waste if it ends up being he took a drug just to get some sleep...:sad:

[velvetbrown]

Like made into a eunich...castration.
I truly hope its just a rumor that I have heard many times over the years but if it is true it would explain alot. But as a previous poster said..didnt the accuser describe his genitals and werent pictures taken? I dont really know..the whole situation is just sad. I wish the reports would just hurry so all the speculation(including mine) could end and the man could rest in peace.

The testicles are removed, but the sac remans intact. Orbs cn be inserted to give a 'normal' appearance

[aproudmom]

Does anyone know who this women is that they showed and named on either JVM or NG that a women has came forward and said she had MJ child/children not sure who she was talking about but they said she filed something and had also filed before but a judge told her he could not go by the information she was giving..did anyone else hear this tonight

[velvetbrown]

i havent read anything about addiction with it, it does not seem to me an addictive drug. All it does is knock you out, and most addicts like the way a drug makes you feel - takes a way pain, relaxes you, calms, gives you the fuzzies - if they are into narcotics. For example, i am not an addict but the few times i need demerol i totally enjoy it lol and see how someone can become addicted to it. It works best for me as a pain killer and i get a tooth abcess about once a year, so i have 10 pills or so then.

This drug doesn't do any of that, just makes you go to sleep immediately. I mean there isn't time to feel anything or get a high.

jmo

Sorry VC2, you are mistaken. Propophol gives you a very giddy feeling. I've had patients who miscarried giggle about it-it is a very uninhibiting drug that wears off quickly. It's nickname is Milk of Amnesia because you don't remembering anything after it's given to you, and it is milky white in color.

[dinojen]

Probably really heartbreaking for his kids to listen to but what a great thing for him to do for them.

Personally I think it was in Michael's own way of making sure that his kids were taken care of..no matter what... these songs are in their name and will not be able to be attached by anyone.. creditors.. family.. money seeker's.. they are his children's to do with as they wish...

Will see if I can find the link... and will post when I do..:wink:

Would love to hear them some day.. that's for sure...

[disneyfreak]

Did they read the part of the will where MJ gives Paul McCartney the catalog? That'd be a happy ending to a sad story.

There is no mention of that. I heard that this was discussed last year, which was much later than the copy of the current will. In addition, that would most likely be in the trust which is not public.

[emdragon]

OK we have learned a lot about this drug but the gist of it is that it is powerful and it knocks you out fast (one poster last night said 40 seconds)
It can kill- and reports on TMZ is are that he was given it IV that day..

My question to those in the know because I'm confused- how could this drug have killed him if it is true that the oldest son saw his father collapse-which would mean he was up and about- if he was just receiving the IV would he not have already been in bed not up an about?

So can the drug have a delayed reaction that could cause death if taken earlier in the day or is it the type of drug that leaves quickly from the body?

I'm just having a problem see this as the drug that killed him if he was up and about with Prince.

[aproudmom]

Sorry VC2, you are mistaken. Propophol gives you a very giddy feeling. I've had patients who miscarried giggle about it-it is a very uninhibiting drug that wears off quickly. It's nickname is Milk of Amnesia because you don't remembering anything after it's given to you, and it is milky white in color.

is this what they give you for surgeries such as gallbladder removal or out patient surgery's..I had something one time and it burnt and they did something can not remember what I just remember telling them it was hurting..I thought my vein was on fire

[VC2]

ok VC give me a break I just got back from a bunch of 13yr olds ..lol..I may have worded it wrong it is usually being used by people in the health care filed...there is that better:wink:
I know it is not listed under a controlled substance I take Xanax and know you have to be very careful or you can become addicted or need more and more but not me I have never abused anything...and never wanted to feel like I did not have control so never touched drugs...

lol..13 year olds would do it.

i just wanted to stop addiction rumors on it, bc i think there are enough about him lol

[crazydazy]

The testicles are removed, but the sac remans intact. Orbs cn be inserted to give a 'normal' appearance

Thanks for clarifying. I couldn't think of a proper way to describe it..glad you did. I would also explain the accuser testimony if it turns out to be true.

[emdragon]

Sorry VC2, you are mistaken. Propophol gives you a very giddy feeling. I've had patients who miscarried giggle about it-it is a very uninhibiting drug that wears off quickly. It's nickname is Milk of Amnesia because you don't remembering anything after it's given to you, and it is milky white in color.

Like Versed?
(Versed was found during the trial)

We keep reading it knocks you out fast... see my last post- now I'm even more confused.

(and yes I can understand the draw to it if it is the same effects as versed-love that stuff)

[aproudmom]

OK we have learned a lot about this drug but the gist of it is that it is powerful and it knocks you out fast (one poster last night said 40 seconds)
It can kill- and reports on TMZ is are that he was given it IV that day..

My question to those in the know because I'm confused- how could this drug have killed him if it is true that the oldest son saw his father collapse-which would mean he was up and about- if he was just receiving the IV would he not have already been in bed not up an about?

So can the drug have a delayed reaction that could cause death if taken earlier in the day or is it the type of drug that leaves quickly from the body?

I'm just having a problem see this as the drug that killed him if he was up and about with Prince.

I am not so sure we know for a fact he saw him collapse after that was reported the doctors lawyer IIRC said it was not true that MJ was in his room not the living room and his son did not see him collapse..

[VC2]

Sorry VC2, you are mistaken. Propophol gives you a very giddy feeling. I've had patients who miscarried giggle about it-it is a very uninhibiting drug that wears off quickly. It's nickname is Milk of Amnesia because you don't remembering anything after it's given to you, and it is milky white in color.

yeah but giddy for a few seconds, doesn't have an incredibly fast effect? One that has you asleep quickly. If all it does is make you giddy then i cant imagine they use it for any excision surgery...OUCH the pain even if you cant remember it afterwards, it wouyld be like paralysing someone-not saying it paralyzes but some drugs do, cutting them open but giving them an amnesiac as well. Doesn't make it less a torture, just means you won't have a malpractice suite and in fact have patients with ptsd type nightmares if its in their subconscious of being operated on with no painkiller.

IMO

[aproudmom]

omg bubbles is huge now..had not seen him since he was with MJ

[disneyfreak]

is this what they give you for surgeries such as gallbladder removal or out patient surgery's..I had something one time and it burnt and they did something can not remember what I just remember telling them it was hurting..I thought my vein was on fire
Yes it is used for gallbladder surgery. I also had once in outpatient surgery but it was used in conjunction with other medications with a Registered Nurse in the room and 911 on their speed dial.

[*Serenity*]

OK we have learned a lot about this drug but the gist of it is that it is powerful and it knocks you out fast (one poster last night said 40 seconds)
It can kill- and reports on TMZ is are that he was given it IV that day..

My question to those in the know because I'm confused- how could this drug have killed him if it is true that the oldest son saw his father collapse-which would mean he was up and about- if he was just receiving the IV would he not have already been in bed not up an about?

So can the drug have a delayed reaction that could cause death if taken earlier in the day or is it the type of drug that leaves quickly from the body?

I'm just having a problem see this as the drug that killed him if he was up and about with Prince.

That rumor was started with another rumor debunking that event.
IIRC the Doctor is the one that stated the children were not
present. I know... all these conflicting reports makes it so hard
to know who or what to believe.

[velvetbrown]

yeah but giddy for a few seconds, doesn't have an incredibly fast effect? One that has you asleep quickly. If all it does is make you giddy then i cant imagine they use it for any excision surgery...OUCH the pain even if you cant remember it afterwards, it wouyld be like paralysing someone-not saying it paralyzes but some drugs do, cutting them open but giving them an amnesiac as well. Doesn't make it less a torture, just means you won't have a malpractice suite and in fact have patients with ptsd type nightmares if its in their subconscious of being operated on with no painkiller.

IMO

It is not the only anesthetic given in surgery, it's just given FIRST. It works very quickly, and allows the pt to be pain free, relaxed and cooperative while larger IV lines are inserted, surgical prep done, etc.

[aproudmom]

Like Versed?
(Versed was found during the trial)

We keep reading it knocks you out fast... see my last post- now I'm even more confused.

(and yes I can understand the draw to it if it is the same effects as versed-love that stuff)

I think he wanted to sleep they say insomnia is horrible..:confused:

[Imperfect4]

The testicles are removed, but the sac remans intact. Orbs cn be inserted to give a 'normal' appearance

I'm getting quite an eddamification here tonite. :scared:

[velvetbrown]

I'm getting quite an eddamification here tonite. :scared:

Just cover your eyes and say "La la la la la la la..."

[aproudmom]

Yes it is used for gallbladder surgery. I also had once in outpatient surgery but it was used in conjunction with other medications with a Registered Nurse in the room and 911 on their speed dial.

ok I ask tons of questions to the ones who have my life in their hands and I had my gallbladder out not cut open but had to stay over night and then had some other out patient surgery's and just had to stay for observation but was pretty much awake as soon as they rolled me out of the OR..and then of course they give you pain meds..and a nurse right by my side just like you said but I have always been in a hospital when I had them done so no need for 911 in my case..but I remember getting something and it burnt so bad at first and then they gave me something and I was fine not sure if it was the same thing just remember telling them and they gave me something and I was O U T...LOL

[Imperfect4]

Just cover your eyes and say "La la la la la la la..."

Trying! :w00t:

Never heard about the, um, faux testicles. :unsure:

O/T, but would you happen to know what's normally given, outpatient, for colonoscopies and upper endoscopies? From what I understand, I wasn't actually unconscious, but just had no memory of the procedures?

[aproudmom]

OMG They have a dysfunctional marriage..talking about Joe and Katherine I keep hearing they are not really together as a couple

[velvetbrown]

Trying! :w00t:

Never heard about the, um, faux testicles. :unsure:

O/T, but would you happen to know what's normally given, outpatient, for colonoscopies and upper endoscopies? From what I understand, I wasn't actually unconscious, but just had no memory of the procedures?

Sorry, no. Different docs like to use drugs they are comfortable with. There is no "You use this for this proceedure..." That's why sometimes you have great anesthesia, or not so great anesthesia...it all depends on who is administering it...

[aproudmom]

Trying! :w00t:

Never heard about the, um, faux testicles. :unsure:

O/T, but would you happen to know what's normally given, outpatient, for colonoscopies and upper endoscopies? From what I understand, I wasn't actually unconscious, but just had no memory of the procedures?

my bolding
they torture me wont put me out for that and I have to have them alot they spray some sort of numbing med in my throat and say swallow..:angry: but my sister had it and my mom and they were put on something they did not know anything about it..I did the whole darn thing wide awake nothing..I think that hospital hated me

[Imperfect4]

Sorry, no. Different docs like to use drugs they are comfortable with. There is no "You use this for this proceedure..." That's why sometimes you have great anesthesia, or not so great anesthesia...it all depends on who is administering it...

Gotcha. Thanks. :smile:

I've had wonderful luck with all the anesthesiologists and surgeons I've had throughout my many years on the planet.

[aproudmom]

Sorry, no. Different docs like to use drugs they are comfortable with. There is no "You use this for this proceedure..." That's why sometimes you have great anesthesia, or not so great anesthesia...it all depends on who is administering it...

well I know where I wont go anymore..and your right cause I have had some wonderful anesthesiologist and then some were crappy the doctors may say what you get but IMO I put the ones putting me out on the same level as the doctor..

[Imperfect4]

my bolding
they torture me wont put me out for that and I have to have them alot they spray some sort of numbing med in my throat and say swallow..:angry: but my sister had it and my mom and they were put on something they did not know anything about it..I did the whole darn thing wide awake nothing..I think that hospital hated me

I wonder why they don't give you something? :confused:

I'm very lucky. I go out fast and wake up fast -- no nausea or side effects. Usually not even groggy.

[velvetbrown]

I think he wanted to sleep they say insomnia is horrible..:confused:

I have bouts of insomnia, and I've tried practically everything to help me sleep. All the sleeping pills gave me horrible side effects...Lunesta made me walk, cook and eat in my sleep! I went to bed with a clean kitchen and woke up to a mess! It's a miracle I didn't burn down the house...not to mention the weight gain! Another one made me sleep walk and made me forgetful. Now I take Xanex and it relaxes me so I can fall asleep.

[*Serenity*]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090702/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_287


The will doesn't name father Joe Jackson to any position of authority in administering the estate.

The executors moved quickly to take control of all of Michael Jackson's property, going to court hours after filing the will to challenge a previous ruling that gave Katherine Jackson control of 2,000 items from Neverland.

Paul Gordon Hoffman, an attorney for the executors, told Superior Court Judge Mitchell Beckloff his clients are the proper people to take over Jackson's financial affairs. He called Katherine Jackson's speed in getting limited power over her son's property "a race to the courthouse that is frankly improper."

Judge Beckloff urged attorneys from both sides to try to reach a compromise.

"I would like the family to sit down and try to make this work so that we don't have a difficult time in court," the judge said. A hearing on the estate was set for Monday.

The will, dated July 7, 2002, gives the entire estate to the Michael Jackson Family Trust. Details of the trust will not be made public.



I don't think the Jackson's will sit down and do any type of agreement, I think they will fight to the bitter end to get everything, regardless of Michael's wishes in his will and trust. The Atlas Moving Van at Michael's home was sudden and at the same time Katherine rushing to the courts to get power over the estate, children, and 2,000 items at Neverland. And if that's not enough we heard earlier that Katherine was aware of the will, and mis-represented that tid bit of information to the court.

All I can think is Joe is pushing Katherine pretty hard to make all these moves, and he is going to fight even harder after finding out he was completely cut out of everything. He will push hard to get that Doctor prosecuted and then forge ahead with a civil suit for Michael's death.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

IMO

[aproudmom]

Hi all - trying to catch up once again.

I am thinking MJ already had this drug in the house when Dr Murray came on board Let me explain: The nurse said MJ called her in 3 months ago -- Dr. Murray started working with MJ again in mid-May. If he was as emphatic as she says he was he would have had someone get this prior to unless Dr. Murray was the one he called and came before he actually started working with MJ.

Then I thought of this -- It is reported that Dr. Murray has tended to MJ for 3 years. That would be right around the time the trial ended - and I recall after the trial MJ had a close call and something went wrong. I'm wondering if versed was used then and if Dr. Murray administered that and it was just wasn't looked at as closely as this incident because he survived. ..... just thinkiing out loud

thought you got lost.. you have been thinking..he was in Vegas and one of the kids got sick right? and that was how he met this Doctor or am I thinking of another one..

[CinderL.]

I have bouts of insomnia, and I've tried practically everything to help me sleep. All the sleeping pills gave me horrible side effects...Lunesta made me walk, cook and eat in my sleep! I went to bed with a clean kitchen and woke up to a mess! It's a miracle I didn't burn down the house...not to mention the weight gain! Another one made me sleep walk and made me forgetful. Now I take Xanex and it relaxes me so I can fall asleep.


:ohmy::ohmy: remember that show, one of the tru crime shows, where the husband drowned the wife and said it was because of his sleeping meds. Yikes. Your husband is lucky. :laugh: J/K

[aproudmom]

I have bouts of insomnia, and I've tried practically everything to help me sleep. All the sleeping pills gave me horrible side effects...Lunesta made me walk, cook and eat in my sleep! I went to bed with a clean kitchen and woke up to a mess! It's a miracle I didn't burn down the house...not to mention the weight gain! Another one made me sleep walk and made me forgetful. Now I take Xanex and it relaxes me so I can fall asleep.

see Xanax does not help me sleep I see others take it and they are out I take it for anxiety I don't have insomnia but OMG sometimes I try and try to go to sleep and I just cant but a women on HLN today said it was horrible to live with..glad you found something to help you..

[CinderL.]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090702/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_287




I don't think the Jackson's will sit down and do any type of agreement, I think they will fight to the bitter end to get everything, regardless of Michael's wishes in his will and trust. The Atlas Moving Van at Michael's home was sudden and at the same time Katherine rushing to the courts to get power over the estate, children, and 2,000 items at Neverland. And if that's not enough we heard earlier that Katherine was aware of the will, and mis-represented that tid bit of information to the court.

All I can think is Joe is pushing Katherine pretty hard to make all these moves, and he is going to fight even harder after finding out he was completely cut out of everything. He will push hard to get that Doctor prosecuted and then forge ahead with a civil suit for Michael's death.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

IMO

I agree with you, I think they will fight this tooth and nail.

[*Serenity*]

I know anyone can contest a will but I really seriously doubt that the Jacksons will get anything changed. The reason I say this is because as long as his children are covered -- what reason would they use to file a motion ??

That's the million dollar question. lol

Their attornies are probably raking over everything they can to find a loophole. I doubt they can get anything changed either, unless of course they can pull some tricky legal loopholes. I'm not too impressed with them going to the courts misleading the court that they had no knowelege of the will, when infact they met with Michael's attorney and read it. AND going after 2,000 items from Neverland in a rush.

Just thinking out loud here-- the possible hold up with the funeral arrangements could have been something documented in his trust, which we are not privy to. :shrug: maybe not....

[CinderL.]

I know anyone can contest a will but I really seriously doubt that the Jacksons will get anything changed. The reason I say this is because as long as his children are covered -- what reason would they use to file a motion ??

I hope you are right, because I think these guys who MJ chose to be his executors, may just get the mess of MJ's estate in order. They may get this to start actually be making some money.

[emdragon]

my bolding
they torture me wont put me out for that and I have to have them alot they spray some sort of numbing med in my throat and say swallow..:angry: but my sister had it and my mom and they were put on something they did not know anything about it..I did the whole darn thing wide awake nothing..I think that hospital hated me

My endoscopy i got Valium and versed- remember the throat spray, gagging a bit and seeing a little on the screen and then I was awake- By the time I got home maybe 10 minutes later those were in fact the only things I remembered- could not even remember talking to the Doctor afterward.

Had an angiogram and was given Valium/versed and an antihistamine but I didn't get enough and remember most of the procedure- you know just now it dawned on me I remember watching it all on the screen but don't remember them inserting the guide wire. (but since you then have to lay flat for 3 hours they REALLY needed to either give me a lot more or something else cause that was more uncomfortable than the procedure.

Then I had Thyroid surgery and I know I got Valium before I ever got into the surgical suite and now that I think about it what they gave me did burn at first and then he added something else the burning stopped and then I was waking up.

guess I have had both after all.

But I still love that Valium Versed combo...

[aproudmom]

I wonder why they don't give you something? :confused:

I'm very lucky. I go out fast and wake up fast -- no nausea or side effects. Usually not even groggy.

:confused:I never knew until I moved here the hospital I used to go to was a very small hospital maybe they could not afford it. heck I have no clue all I know is they told me I had to be awake to swallow it and I freaked out big time..and watched it go into my stomach remember everything down to what the stupid nurses was talking about and giggling and I was freaking out..but now I am in a bigger town and they put you out there so I know where I am going..

[aproudmom]

sorry if already been posted

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/07/exclusive-godfather-breaks-silence-about-jackson%E2%80%99s-kids

The British godfather of Michael Jackson’s youngest son has exclusively told RadarOnline.com that the superstar would have wanted his mother and former long-time nanny Grace Rwaramba to raise his three children. British osteopath Mark Lester, 50, is godfather to Jackson’s youngest child Prince Michael II (Blanket) and had known the star for almost 30 years

[*Serenity*]

http://www.tmz.com/


Michael Jackson used a slew of aliases to score prescription meds, and we know the two names that could unlock the key to gross abuse by Jackson and some prominent doctors.

We've learned Jackson frequently used the names Omar Arnold and Jack London to get powerful drugs, including Demerol. Jackson also used the name of one of his bodyguards, as well as the name of the office manager for one of his doctors.

Sources tell us the prescription abuse was so egregious, one doctor would call the pharmacy and say Jackson was coming down to get Demerol. The pharmacy would then fill the prescription, leaving the patient's name blank.

Dang.... !!

[aproudmom]

FGS they are even chasing Grace down with cameras in her face..:thumbdown: everything that has been said about her has been very good I haven't heard anything bad..unless I missed it.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/07/exclusive-video-nanny-grace-rwaramba-takes-break-jackson-kids

[aproudmom]

http://www.tmz.com/



[/b]

Dang.... !!

:ohmy:I second that dang

[emdragon]

I have bouts of insomnia, and I've tried practically everything to help me sleep. All the sleeping pills gave me horrible side effects...Lunesta made me walk, cook and eat in my sleep! I went to bed with a clean kitchen and woke up to a mess! It's a miracle I didn't burn down the house...not to mention the weight gain! Another one made me sleep walk and made me forgetful. Now I take Xanex and it relaxes me so I can fall asleep.

Hey I take Xanax for the same reason- and I have for about 11 years. It relaxes me enough that when I do lay down my mind doesn't race with thoughts.

[disneyfreak]

Michael Jackson used a slew of aliases to score prescription meds, and we know the two names that could unlock the key to gross abuse by Jackson and some prominent doctors.

We've learned Jackson frequently used the names Omar Arnold and Jack London to get powerful drugs, including Demerol. Jackson also used the name of one of his bodyguards, as well as the name of the office manager for one of his doctors.

Visions of the current Howard K. Stern criminal charges are now dancing in my head.

[aproudmom]

Maybe something good will come out of MJ's death in that Doctors adhere to their Code of Ethics. This has been going on for just too long and IMO they are just as bad as the pushers who sell illegal drugs. :(

yep and someone said that tonight on some show..that he would not die in vein if others could be saved the docs and the ones filling it all need to know just what can happen if they do this even with stars..they are wanting to do the tracking national I thought they did in all pharmacy's but they said CVS does which I knew that is who I use and they are very strict

[CinderL.]

Maybe something good will come out of MJ's death in that Doctors adhere to their Code of Ethics. These are controlled substances and there are supposed to be legit records. I use Claritin-D which is available in the drug store but not on the shelf and have to show my drivers license and sign a log. This has been going on for just too long and IMO they are just as bad as the pushers who sell illegal drugs. :(

Gerry Brown has started with the Dr.s that got the meds for ANS. It is time that these rogue Dr.'s are held accountable for the drugs they prescribe.

[*Serenity*]

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/06/exclusive-joe-katherine-jacksons-multimillion-dollar-bankruptcy


Michael Jackson's parents have just recently come through their extremely complex and much-challenged bankruptcy proceeding. The couple filed for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy on March 1, 1999, and although their debts were "discharged" on June 13, 2000, there were so many adversarial motions from creditors, there were still filings coming in as of May 22, 2008, according to court documents obtained by RadarOnline.com.

One interesting side note: the couple claimed "month to month tenancy only" on their residence in Encino, CA which they point out is owned by their son.

I tend to think they will do anything/everything in this world to obtain a chunk of Michael's estate. They needed him for everything--especially a home. I'm sure Michael took care of Katherine but no sure how the real estate owned would be handled through the trust, and the monthly living expenses.

[CinderL.]

:ohmy:I second that dang
Third. :wink:

[CinderL.]

Visions of the current Howard K. Stern criminal charges are now dancing in my head.

Yes, and the excuse that they are celebrities, and they all do it to protect themselves, is BS IMO.

[aproudmom]

Paparazzi are horrible and people wonder why MJ sheltered his children. So sad - I guess she is celebrity to them now. :(

I know they say the stars should not Bitc* but they can be very dangerous chasing them to get that shot..:thumbdown:

[aproudmom]

I've had 3 surgeries and have no idea what I was given and felt horrible afterwards. One of them when my surgeon came to see me - told me I was talking like a sailor. Never told me what I said and I have no recollection of it. Horrible. :scared:

omg you sound like my mom when she comes out of it..I have to watch her she hits the nurses..:laugh:

[*Serenity*]

http://www.radaronline.com/related-posts/
**need to scroll down a bit**


Michael Jackson’s family and advisors have finally made a decision on where to hold a memorial service celebrating the late singer’s life and career. It will be Tuesday, July 7 at Los Angeles’ Staples Center, RadarOnline.com has learned exclusively.

The 20,000-seat venue is where Michael spent his last night. He rehearsed there for his upcoming London concerts, right up until midnight on June 24. Jackson died the following afternoon.

Story Developing

[CinderL.]

I've had 3 surgeries and have no idea what I was given and felt horrible afterwards. One of them when my surgeon came to see me - told me I was talking like a sailor. Never told me what I said and I have no recollection of it. Horrible. :scared:
Yes, it is horrible. I had one surgery, and I heard later from the nurse some on the things I was saying. I couldn't believe the things I said.
I was telling some whoppers. :laugh: The nurse was asking me about all of my travels. hahahaha bunch of lies, at the time.

[CinderL.]

I use a local mom and pop pharmacy and they are very strict. But I have also bought Claritin-D from CVS and Walgreens and they are also very strict. They won't even fill a presciption if your DOB and address are not on it and controlled medication has to be signed for. What TMZ said is on some - there was not even a name.

I have a feeling that there will be a few pharmacies, and Dr. that may be going out of business. And good riddance .

[aproudmom]

I use a local mom and pop pharmacy and they are very strict. But I have also bought Claritin-D from CVS and Walgreens and they are also very strict. They won't even fill a presciption if your DOB and address are not on it and controlled medication has to be signed for. What TMZ said is on some - there was not even a name.

yep I went to get my medicine tonight and they would not fill it and the doctor wrote it and he is very strict but he just upped the dose since he was taking me off the other one so they refused to fill it I can call him and have him call them and have it say take 4 a day as needed in a lower mg..so that is just how strict CVS is here anyway with any controlled substances..I have to have my ID and everything has to be filled out and it is tracked I have seen the State in there getting a list of the names so ask my cousin who is a state trooper and there is a warning in my doctors office that they track them and you can go to jail...that is why I do not see how people get their hands on this stuff..

[CinderL.]

I'll see you all tomorrow. Want to catch up with a couple of recorded programs on my DVR. Our group here at SYTYCD is probably wondering where I am too. Haven't posted with them in the Entertainment forum since MJ's death or the Political forum. :seeya:

:seeya:...... I watched SYTYCD but the sound was messed up. I couldn't stand it. I don't know what it is with FOX sometimes.

[legalmania]

I hope you are right, because I think these guys who MJ chose to be his executors, may just get the mess of MJ's estate in order. They may get this to start actually be making some money.

Remember just yesterday Joe put himself in charge of MJ estate. It wouldn't surprise me if he thinks he should handle the estate.

[CinderL.]

Too bad that pharmacy bill was settled that MJ had. Could have asked for itemized receipts with copies of the prescriptions if it were still open and coming out of the estate. :angry:
I am sure they can get it.

[*Serenity*]

Looks like he is making some pretty good sales for now. I can only imagine what the sales will be like if his last rehersal's are released, plus some of his songs that were not released yet. Maybe he saved them for a special time to be released, which would be additional funds for the children and their trust's.


http://mashable.com/2009/07/01/michael-jackson-record-music-sales/

[legalmania]

Drum roll :laugh: Seems like such a long time to not bury someone or is it just me or acually now that I'm thinking about it - maybe it was a condition of the LAPD's due to July 4th weekend? :confused:

I remember Anna Nicole laid in the morgue for 11 days I think it was around 15 days before she was buried.

[CinderL.]

Remember just yesterday Joe put himself in charge of MJ estate. It wouldn't surprise me if he thinks he should handle the estate.

I think these new (old) attnys. can handle Joe. I sure hope so. I think a judge would see right trough Joe. In fact all the Attny's would have to do is show the judge the BET award interview. :laugh:

[CinderL.]

Oh you should join our LRC (Ladies Reality Club) on the SYTYCD entertainment thread. Actually have fun !!! Some of us have been posting together for a few years because of American Idol. Nice people and new "members" are always welcome.

I hope my sound was OK -- I taped it. :)

Oh well..... Goodnight for real :seeya:

I will check it out. Night.

[legalmania]

Oh you should join our LRC (Ladies Reality Club) on the SYTYCD entertainment thread. Actually have fun !!! Some of us have been posting together for a few years because of American Idol. Nice people and new "members" are always welcome.

I hope my sound was OK -- I taped it. :)

Oh well..... Goodnight for real :seeya:

Goodnight Athena.

[*Serenity*]

I'll see you all tomorrow. Want to catch up with a couple of recorded programs on my DVR. Our group here at SYTYCD is probably wondering where I am too. Haven't posted with them in the Entertainment forum since MJ's death or the Political forum. :seeya:

:wave:
Have fun and sweet dreams...!

[CinderL.]

I remember Anna Nicole laid in the morgue for 11 days I think it was around 15 days before she was buried. And, wasn't her son left for a month or more?

[legalmania]

I think these new (old) attnys. can handle Joe. I sure hope so. I think a judge would see right trough Joe. In fact all the Attny's would have to do is show the judge the BET award interview. :laugh:

I hope he doesn't try to fight it because alls he's doing is taking away from the children.

[aproudmom]

I'll see you all tomorrow. Want to catch up with a couple of recorded programs on my DVR. Our group here at SYTYCD is probably wondering where I am too. Haven't posted with them in the Entertainment forum since MJ's death or the Political forum. :seeya:

see ya later I am heading to bed soon..I stay out of Political forum..lol.

[*Serenity*]

I am sure they can get it.

Me thinks some peeps are going to end up in some deep doo doo.

[legalmania]

And, wasn't her son left for a month or more?

I can't remember about her son, but what a tragedy, I was so happy the little girl was Larry's (was that his name)? Instead of Howard's, I just didn't like that guy.

[CinderL.]

Wednesday, July 01, 2009
Music, Television / By Roger Friedman
Tags: AEG Live, Michael Jackson, Nokia Theatre, Staples Center

staples center Michael Jackson Funeral Set for July 7 at Staples CenterThe Michael Jackson funeral is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Tuesday, July 7, at Los Angeles’ Staples Center. Sources tell me that AEG Live, which owns Staples and next-door neighbor Nokia Theatre, will use both facilities and the surrounding plaza.

There’s no official confirmation yet, but I’m told all systems are go.

Insiders also say that AEG will put gigantic screens outside the facilities for the thousands who will not get inside. No word yet on how ticketing will be handled.

In order to do this, the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus, scheduled to begin its run at Staples on July 8, had to be persuaded to postpone moving into Staples by several hours.

Insert your own circus joke here.

Somehow it seems appropriate. It will be a day for the Greatest Show on Earth to follow The Biggest Funeral in History. Jackson would love this, that’s for sure.

Earlier speculation had the funeral being held everywhere from Neverland to Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

[CinderL.]

Me thinks some peeps are going to end up in some deep doo doo.

I think that is an understatement. :laugh::laugh:

[*Serenity*]

I hope he doesn't try to fight it because alls he's doing is taking away from the children.

Joe is all about Joe... he took all of Michael's money before Michael finally broke away from his evil ways. IIRC Joe even commented about laughing all the way to the bank with the money after the news came out about him abusing Michael. I watched a video clip of Michael talking about getting $200,000 checks when he was 12 or 13.

After reading about Joe and Katherine's huge bankruptcy, they need Michael's money to finish living out their lives. I posted a link upthread with some of their bk details.

[CinderL.]

I can't remember about her son, but what a tragedy, I was so happy the little girl was Larry's (was that his name)? Instead of Howard's, I just didn't like that guy.

I didn't like any of them, except for the innocent baby. I think they are all scum.

eta: Howard is going down, the same way whoever provided the drugs to MJ will. I think it is a great thing. It is time.

[*Serenity*]

Wednesday, July 01, 2009
Music, Television / By Roger Friedman
Tags: AEG Live, Michael Jackson, Nokia Theatre, Staples Center

staples center Michael Jackson Funeral Set for July 7 at Staples CenterThe Michael Jackson funeral is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Tuesday, July 7, at Los Angeles’ Staples Center. Sources tell me that AEG Live, which owns Staples and next-door neighbor Nokia Theatre, will use both facilities and the surrounding plaza.

There’s no official confirmation yet, but I’m told all systems are go.

Insiders also say that AEG will put gigantic screens outside the facilities for the thousands who will not get inside. No word yet on how ticketing will be handled.

In order to do this, the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus, scheduled to begin its run at Staples on July 8, had to be persuaded to postpone moving into Staples by several hours.

Insert your own circus joke here.

Somehow it seems appropriate. It will be a day for the Greatest Show on Earth to follow The Biggest Funeral in History. Jackson would love this, that’s for sure.

Earlier speculation had the funeral being held everywhere from Neverland to Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

My bold above is the KEY to all of this funeral/memorial change of plans. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[aproudmom]

I can't remember about her son, but what a tragedy, I was so happy the little girl was Larry's (was that his name)? Instead of Howard's, I just didn't like that guy.

I saw them at Church hill downs he goes every year..Larry Burkhart..he is a hottie :biggrin:

[CinderL.]

My bold above is the KEY to all of this funeral/memorial change of plans. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

OMG. I didn't even see this. Who is going to make money off of this deal. Geez. GMAFB

[legalmania]

Wednesday, July 01, 2009
Music, Television / By Roger Friedman
Tags: AEG Live, Michael Jackson, Nokia Theatre, Staples Center

staples center Michael Jackson Funeral Set for July 7 at Staples CenterThe Michael Jackson funeral is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Tuesday, July 7, at Los Angeles’ Staples Center. Sources tell me that AEG Live, which owns Staples and next-door neighbor Nokia Theatre, will use both facilities and the surrounding plaza.

There’s no official confirmation yet, but I’m told all systems are go.

Insiders also say that AEG will put gigantic screens outside the facilities for the thousands who will not get inside. No word yet on how ticketing will be handled.

In order to do this, the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus, scheduled to begin its run at Staples on July 8, had to be persuaded to postpone moving into Staples by several hours.

Insert your own circus joke here.

Somehow it seems appropriate. It will be a day for the Greatest Show on Earth to follow The Biggest Funeral in History. Jackson would love this, that’s for sure.

Earlier speculation had the funeral being held everywhere from Neverland to Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

There are people already waiting at Neverland, they said they are willing to go wherever he is. In the mean time Farrah was buried today poor Ryan.

[aproudmom]

Wednesday, July 01, 2009
Music, Television / By Roger Friedman
Tags: AEG Live, Michael Jackson, Nokia Theatre, Staples Center

staples center Michael Jackson Funeral Set for July 7 at Staples CenterThe Michael Jackson funeral is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Tuesday, July 7, at Los Angeles’ Staples Center. Sources tell me that AEG Live, which owns Staples and next-door neighbor Nokia Theatre, will use both facilities and the surrounding plaza.

There’s no official confirmation yet, but I’m told all systems are go.

Insiders also say that AEG will put gigantic screens outside the facilities for the thousands who will not get inside. No word yet on how ticketing will be handled.

In order to do this, the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus, scheduled to begin its run at Staples on July 8, had to be persuaded to postpone moving into Staples by several hours.

Insert your own circus joke here.

Somehow it seems appropriate. It will be a day for the Greatest Show on Earth to follow The Biggest Funeral in History. Jackson would love this, that’s for sure.

Earlier speculation had the funeral being held everywhere from Neverland to Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

Thanks kept checking to see if we would hear anything about when it was

[legalmania]

Here is one of my favorites dedicated to you MJ you are so missed.

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Never Can Say Goodbye (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/never_can_say_goodbye)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[emdragon]

I've had 3 surgeries and have no idea what I was given and felt horrible afterwards. One of them when my surgeon came to see me - told me I was talking like a sailor. Never told me what I said and I have no recollection of it. Horrible. :scared:

I had one surgery many years ago that I just know I was put to sleep- but the next day after driving home (about 2 hours) half way there we stopped at target because i was getting stiff and by the next day I could not even get on an off the toilet it hurt so much- next surgery that was the first thing I asked the anesthesiologist he knew exactly what I had been given-promised to use something else and made sure it was in my chart-- that is the only bad experience i've had.

[*Serenity*]

OMG. I didn't even see this. Who is going to make money off of this deal. Geez. GMAFB

From the quote upthread:

AEG Live, which owns Staples and next-door neighbor Nokia Theatre.
Was the tour contracted with AEG.... I am thinking it was, hence they will get some money back for their losses.

[aproudmom]

There are people already waiting at Neverland, they said they are willing to go wherever he is. In the mean time Farrah was buried today poor Ryan.

yesterday she was laid to rest...

[CinderL.]

There are people already waiting at Neverland, they said they are willing to go wherever he is. In the mean time Farrah was buried today poor Ryan.

It is getting pretty sick. I wonder if Al and Jessie have killed each other yet. Who will give the sermon, who is first, who is last. Uggggg

And the biggest question, will they let JOE speak???? :scared:

[emdragon]

Wednesday, July 01, 2009
Music, Television / By Roger Friedman
Tags: AEG Live, Michael Jackson, Nokia Theatre, Staples Center

staples center Michael Jackson Funeral Set for July 7 at Staples CenterThe Michael Jackson funeral is scheduled for 10 a.m. on Tuesday, July 7, at Los Angeles’ Staples Center. Sources tell me that AEG Live, which owns Staples and next-door neighbor Nokia Theatre, will use both facilities and the surrounding plaza.

There’s no official confirmation yet, but I’m told all systems are go.

Insiders also say that AEG will put gigantic screens outside the facilities for the thousands who will not get inside. No word yet on how ticketing will be handled.

In order to do this, the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus, scheduled to begin its run at Staples on July 8, had to be persuaded to postpone moving into Staples by several hours.

Insert your own circus joke here.

Somehow it seems appropriate. It will be a day for the Greatest Show on Earth to follow The Biggest Funeral in History. Jackson would love this, that’s for sure.

Earlier speculation had the funeral being held everywhere from Neverland to Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

What a shame I work at 10 am Tuesday- guess I'll miss the whole circus.

[CinderL.]

From the quote upthread:

AEG Live, which owns Staples and next-door neighbor Nokia Theatre.
Was the tour contracted with AEG.... I am thinking it was, hence they will get some money back for their losses.

Yes it was AEG. This it turning into a huge joke. Were is the dignity?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ And for those that own MJ.....the gift that keeps on giving. YUCK.

[*Serenity*]

There are people already waiting at Neverland, they said they are willing to go wherever he is. In the mean time Farrah was buried today poor Ryan.
I watched a large portion of her special the other day where they followed her battle with cancer via recorders, and she kept a diary.
She read from her diary throughout the show, and it was so heartfelt and sad. Her son obtaining special visitation to get out of jail, yet he had to keep the shackles on -- was just so terrible. Main thing for both of them though is he did get to see her before she left him
forever.

She was a fighter right to the very end.

[CinderL.]

What a shame I work at 10 am Tuesday- guess I'll miss the whole circus.

You may be a lucky one.

[aproudmom]

I am just glad it is not going to be in Gary Indiana since MJ did not say that is what he wanted I am not sure how he feels about his early years and the Mayor wants them to bring his body there for the memorial fgs the man needs to be laid to rest..I was going to go if they did not have him there since I did not like the fact they wanted the family to have his body there..you can tell the Mayor is wanting the town to profit off of MJ and I disagreed...but that is just MO

[legalmania]

Joe is all about Joe... he took all of Michael's money before Michael finally broke away from his evil ways. IIRC Joe even commented about laughing all the way to the bank with the money after the news came out about him abusing Michael. I watched a video clip of Michael talking about getting $200,000 checks when he was 12 or 13.

After reading about Joe and Katherine's huge bankruptcy, they need Michael's money to finish living out their lives. I posted a link upthread with some of their bk details.

Well I think Katherine deserves some money if she is going to be taking care of the children, but I hope she lets him struggle, it's an awful thing to say about an old man, but what goes around comes around.

[CinderL.]

I watched a large portion of her special the other day where they followed her battle with cancer via recorders, and she kept a diary.
She read from her diary throughout the show, and it was so heartfelt and sad. Her son obtaining special visitation to get out of jail, yet he had to keep the shackles on -- was just so terrible. Main thing for both of them though is he did get to see her before she left him
forever.

She was a fighter right to the very end.

And her service was handled with class. Something that IMO is lacking in the MJ service. Why don't they just have the Circus that is coming into the Staple Center there at the same time? A Circus is a Circus.

[*Serenity*]

I am just glad it is not going to be in Gary Indiana since MJ did not say that is what he wanted I am not sure how he feels about his early years and the Mayor wants them to bring his body there for the memorial fgs the man needs to be laid to rest..I was going to go if they did not have him there since I did not like the fact they wanted the family to have his body there..you can tell the Mayor is wanting the town to profit off of MJ and I disagreed...but that is just MO
I was born and raised in Indiana-- left when I turned 19 years old to California and never moved back. My entire family is scattered all over the state, with the exception of Gary, IN

lol

no offense if you live in Gary, IN... ok.....

[disneyfreak]

And her service was handled with class. Something that IMO is lacking in the MJ service. Why don't they just have the Circus that is coming into the Staple Center there at the same time? A Circus is a Circus.

I couldn't agree with you more.

[aproudmom]

I watched a large portion of her special the other day where they followed her battle with cancer via recorders, and she kept a diary.
She read from her diary throughout the show, and it was so heartfelt and sad. Her son obtaining special visitation to get out of jail, yet he had to keep the shackles on -- was just so terrible. Main thing for both of them though is he did get to see her before she left him
forever.

She was a fighter right to the very end.

I cried just seeing her casket since it was so private that is all that was on the live feed beautiful flowers on her casket and Ryan and Red by her side one last time..

[emdragon]

You may be a lucky one.

Well I will of course still be here so you all can keep me posted.

[legalmania]

I watched a large portion of her special the other day where they followed her battle with cancer via recorders, and she kept a diary.
She read from her diary throughout the show, and it was so heartfelt and sad. Her son obtaining special visitation to get out of jail, yet he had to keep the shackles on -- was just so terrible. Main thing for both of them though is he did get to see her before she left him
forever.

She was a fighter right to the very end.

I hope he's able to stay off the drugs for his mom. She suffered so much. Ryan made his other son stay outside.

[aproudmom]

I was born and raised in Indiana-- left when I turned 19 years old to California and never moved back. My entire family is scattered all over the state, with the exception of Gary, IN

lol

no offense if you live in Gary, IN... ok.....

oh no I am not from there have family very close but I am about an hour and a half south of Gary..I will stay just were I am..lol

[aproudmom]

I hope he's able to stay off the drugs for his mom. She suffered so much. Ryan made his other son stay outside.

AMEN to that legal me to..

[legalmania]

I am just glad it is not going to be in Gary Indiana since MJ did not say that is what he wanted I am not sure how he feels about his early years and the Mayor wants them to bring his body there for the memorial fgs the man needs to be laid to rest..I was going to go if they did not have him there since I did not like the fact they wanted the family to have his body there..you can tell the Mayor is wanting the town to profit off of MJ and I disagreed...but that is just MO

You're probably right alls he's thinking about is filling hotels and restaurants, I bet you he didn't invite him there when he was in trouble.

[CinderL.]

I cried just seeing her casket since it was so private that is all that was on the live feed beautiful flowers on her casket and Ryan and Red by her side one last time..

As a service should be.
Now the MJ service....we can charge $$$ and make it a total joke. What a abomination. I thought the funeral of ANS was over the top. This will be much, much worse. What a way to leave this world. Bring on Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus. SAD.

[aproudmom]

Well I will of course still be here so you all can keep me posted.

will do emdragon

[*Serenity*]

Well I think Katherine deserves some money if she is going to be taking care of the children, but I hope she lets him struggle, it's an awful thing to say about an old man, but what goes around comes around.

I'm pretty confident Michael made sure she would have the means to care for the children through the trust, especially since he named her to be primary caregiver to raise them. I will give kudos to Katherine for standing by Michael's side through thick and thin... and especially showing up every single day for his trial and never leaving his side.
I think they were actually the only close members within the entire family.

I can picture Joe pushing/shoving Katherine all the way down to the courthouse to get his son's estate. Joe was pathetic outside Michael's gates with that big smile and thumbs up, and then quite the arse at the BET awards, and it continued over to his live interviews the following day promoting his new record company. Kinda hard to start a new record company without sufficient funds to start one... so he was certainly banking on Michael's cash.

karma

[CinderL.]

Well I will of course still be here so you all can keep me posted.

Ugggg. I don't think I can watch.

[aproudmom]

As a service should be.
Now the MJ service....we can charge $$$ and make it a total joke. What a abomination. I thought the funeral of ANS was over the top. This will be much, much worse. What a way to leave this world. Bring on Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus. SAD.

ITA Cinder and yes it is very very very sad..

[Mayasmimi]

It is getting pretty sick. I wonder if Al and Jessie have killed each other yet. Who will give the sermon, who is first, who is last. Uggggg

And the biggest question, will they let JOE speak???? :scared:

Please. Joe will speak. Me? Wondering if MJ had truly converted to Islam, why are either of these men involved. Secret Muslems? Not too far fetched. Just sayin.

Oh. Joe Jackson. Out there.

This gets worse every day.

Everything I typed is my opinion. Not all factual.

[aproudmom]

Ugggg. I don't think I can watch.

If they have a open casket I will not be watching I do not think that is what MJ would want and that should be for a private service IMO