Michael Jackson Tues 6/30

[Athena2]

OK here's the new thread.

[CinderL.]

BREAKING NEWS / Mike - TMZ on HLN -- Drugs are most likely the cause of MJ's death (not yet confirmed - toxic combination) Even the private coroner 2nd autopsy -- 6 weeks before report is issued. Says it is gonna be a dog fight. Branca is submitting MJs will to the court - he is also going to be working on securing those numerous bank accounts. According to TMZ Debbie Rowe IS going to seek custody of the kids. Said this is going to get messy because everyone will be coming with their hands out.

Hearing on Monday custody, guardianship and the estate -- getting messy real quick.

Says the spending has stopped, estate is increasing, downloads, music sales are soaring and everyone is going to want a piece.

Has a lot of lawsuits pending

Lisa Bloom brought up interesting point -- Joe Jackson is NOT on the guardianship and they believe it was a smart, strategic move by Katherine to keep him out of it. You go Katherine


Just checked TMZ - nothing on line yet.

Wow. I heard that the press about Debbie R. was a lie. And now it begins.

PS. Thanks for waiting till I was the last post AGAIN before starting another one. :laugh:

[CinderL.]

I heard on CNN/HLN or one of the two that Michael's 2 oldest children were allowed to see him in the hospital after he passed.
How sad for them, Mrs. Jackson was comforting his daughter.
If nothng more... people should have respect for the life these kids have ahead of them. They should be with the Jackson family.


As Janet stated: To you Michael was an icon, to us..Michael was family and we miss him very much".

I was hoping that the stories about Debbie R. were true, and that she didn't want custody. I did hear somewhere today that it wasn't true, but I was hoping. This is going to be a mess. Those poor kids. Geez.

[aproudmom]

OK here's the new thread.

thank you deary...

[CinderL.]

I don't trust TMZ. I heard tonight..again.... there was definitely no cause of death and wouldn't be for weeks.

Katherine knows what she is doing! :wub:
I think Debbie is going for the kids. I was surprised when the story broke that she wouldn't. That she was just a vessel, or something. I was hoping that was true. We'll see. Things change minute to minute.

I am not going to stay up all night tonight. Twenty min. more. that is it.

[aproudmom]

I don't trust TMZ. I heard tonight..again.... there was definitely no cause of death and wouldn't be for weeks.

Katherine knows what she is doing! :wub:

wouldn't we be shocked it had nothing to do with to much meds..I thought of that today..

[CinderL.]

wouldn't we be shocked it had nothing to do with to much meds..I thought of that today..

But then what could it be, if the coroner said that everything is normal. What is left? Other than an imbalance of some kind, with the working out at the show, and not enough fluids.???

[aproudmom]

I think Debbie is going for the kids. I was surprised when the story broke that she wouldn't. That she was just a vessel, or something. I was hoping that was true. We'll see. Things change minute to minute.

I am not going to stay up all night tonight. Twenty min. more. that is it.

I think she is just waiting if it is true she was not getting the money she had been promised monthly and the mask not on the kids I see her doing it once things die down..If she did right now alot of people would be very angry at her..IMO

[CinderL.]

Night all. :seeya:

[*Serenity*]

Night all. :seeya:
Sweet Dreams..........

[CinderL.]

I think she is just waiting if it is true she was not getting the money she had been promised monthly and the mask not on the kids I see her doing it once things die down..If she did right now alot of people would be very angry at her..IMO
I think people will be mad at her regardless of when or if she tries for those kids. That she sold. IMO

[aproudmom]

But then what could it be, if the coroner said that everything is normal. What is left? Other than an imbalance of some kind, with the working out at the show, and not enough fluids.???

natural causes..you know what thanks alot Cinder I feel stupid now.:tonguewag:.your right they would not have to wait on the tox to come back..duh on my part

[CinderL.]

Sweet Dreams.......... Now I am going......:laugh: Thanks.

[CinderL.]

natural causes..you know what thanks alot Cinder I feel stupid now.:tonguewag:.your right they would not have to wait on the tox to come back..duh on my part

Ok ....one more. No you should not feel stupid, because it could still be something in the, brain, or one of the organs that they still have to study. So there. :tonguewag:

[*Serenity*]

About the same time a judge granted Katherine Jackson authority over at least some of her son's estate Friday, pickup trucks and a large dump truck towing a flatbed were seen entering the 2,500-acre Neverland Ranch, a major piece of the singer's debt-strapped financial empire. It was not clear who had requested the fleet or for what purpose.

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/49424762.html

Curious as to what the pick up trucks and dump truck with flatbed are doing at Neverland. ?? Possible resting place for Michael in the works??

[aproudmom]

I think people will be mad at her regardless of when or if she tries for those kids. That she sold. IMO

Yeah I am sure you are correct..I did notice on Geraldo the home is only in Katherine's name and the one in Vegas is in Joe's wonder why they have been married 60yrs..did they even live together..

[aproudmom]

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/49424762.html

Curious as to what the pick up trucks and dump truck with flatbed are doing at Neverland. ?? Possible resting place for Michael in the works??

if so Joe was lying today he said he would not be buried there..

[*Serenity*]

I think people will be mad at her regardless of when or if she tries for those kids. That she sold. IMO

She sold them- signed contracts and has not been a part of their lives. Her ranch and the money has kept her pretty happy thusfar... the only thing I can think right now is that her monthly or yearly income from Michael might be at stake now with him dead, hence she would need the kids back to obtain additional funds.

Hopefully a judge can see right through her antics and keep the children's best interest in mind.

[*Serenity*]

if so Joe was lying today he said he would not be buried there..

Oh... I missed that itty bitty tid bit from today. Did he give any clues as to where they will take Michael? I wonder where Michael wanted to be when he died?

[aproudmom]

well the Bio remembers special is on again yay hope I can stay up for it..just caught the end of it earlier

BTW Farrah will be laid to rest today I will keep both families in my thoughts and prayers

[juliekan]

carp, i posted on the other thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aproudmom
I thought is was very odd I have 2 cousins who are RN they said in the hospital when someone needs CPR they put one of the boards under them..or they do were they work anyway..

http://www.zoll.com/CodeCommunicatio...onsJan2008.pdf

see page 2, table 5 and look at the surface being "foam". in a hospital that would be regular bed with an eggcrate mattress. mean % compression goes from 94 to 44%.

personally never saw an MD do anything but show up after we had already started cpr on a patient, never saw one do compressions, breathing, or ambu-bagging ever, and all of us being ACLS certified had to tell them what probably should be given next (med. wise). only worked as an ICU nurse for 20 years so....and half the time they said, "now what do i do next?"

not kidding.

love your nurses

[aproudmom]

Oh... I missed that itty bitty tid bit from today. Did he give any clues as to where they will take Michael? I wonder where Michael wanted to be when he died?

nope he just said it is not a easy job because MJ was a icon or something to that effect...and they were not sitting a date they had one more thing to do which I am guessing the Autopsy..I wondered if they were going to have some sort of Muslim faith memorial..they are Jehovah Witnesses right??

[juliekan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Serenity*
He had a cell phone on him but couldn't call 911 because he didn't know where he was. (address) Then located the chef in the home who in turn got a security guard to call. So- the Dr. left Michael to go find someone-- leaving him without CPR and then I would assume he starts CPR again upon making it back to Michael's bed.
Strange if you ask me... a home that massive IMO probably had an intercom system to call out throughout the home in order for someone to hear him. I don't know... just strange.. even if the Dr. phoned 911 and said he didn't know the address but was at Michael Jacksons home in the area close by they possibly could have done something quick to track the address.

I've heard lately that 911 only works on land lines? Thus cell phone calls would need to give addresses. Not sure if this is true, but did read it somewhere.

I know in Bashir's documentary they showed an intercom system at Neverland. Don't know if this rental had anything like that.

[*Serenity*]

Neverland doesn't belong to Michael anymore...how can be be buried there??
Thanks for starting the new thread, Athena.

Someone from the Jackson camp reported they were trying to work something out, so guess today Joe said NO that wouldn't be happening. Guess things didn't work out. I didn't catch the update today and have been waiting to hear where they plan on taking Michael. Maybe they really don't know at this point??? With him being so big that would be a tough decision.

[aproudmom]

Neverland doesn't belong to Michael anymore...how can be be buried there??
Thanks for starting the new thread, Athena.

I was just saying what Joe said

Asked about the funeral, the elder Jackson noted that they "don't have a time frame yet" because they're still awaiting the results of the second autopsy. But he shot down rumors that Jackson would be buried in Neverland Ranch

[*Serenity*]

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Serenity*
He had a cell phone on him but couldn't call 911 because he didn't know where he was. (address) Then located the chef in the home who in turn got a security guard to call. So- the Dr. left Michael to go find someone-- leaving him without CPR and then I would assume he starts CPR again upon making it back to Michael's bed.
Strange if you ask me... a home that massive IMO probably had an intercom system to call out throughout the home in order for someone to hear him. I don't know... just strange.. even if the Dr. phoned 911 and said he didn't know the address but was at Michael Jacksons home in the area close by they possibly could have done something quick to track the address.

I've heard lately that 911 only works on land lines? Thus cell phone calls would need to give addresses. Not sure if this is true, but did read it somewhere.

I know in Bashir's documentary they showed an intercom system at Neverland. Don't know if this rental had anything like that.
The arial views of the home show it is massive mansion so I know that large of home has to have the intercom system. I have large sq ft home and no it is not a mansion or anything but have intercom due to the sq ft and trying to find each other around the home.

[aproudmom]

Someone from the Jackson camp reported they were trying to work something out, so guess today Joe said NO that wouldn't be happening. Guess things didn't work out. I didn't catch the update today and have been waiting to hear where they plan on taking Michael. Maybe they really don't know at this point??? With him being so big that would be a tough decision.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b131816_joe_jackson_press_conference_funeral.html

Joe Jackson Press Conference: Funeral, Grandkids and, Um, His Record Label

[*Serenity*]

nope he just said it is not a easy job because MJ was a icon or something to that effect...and they were not sitting a date they had one more thing to do which I am guessing the Autopsy..I wondered if they were going to have some sort of Muslim faith memorial..they are Jehovah Witnesses right??

I'm not sure about any of their religions except I did read that Michael had converted like his brother to Isalm, and also read that Michael had been reading and knew the scriptures. I bet AS will be at the helm no matter what.

[aproudmom]

The arial views of the home show it is massive mansion so I know that large of home has to have the intercom system. I have large sq ft home and no it is not a mansion or anything but have intercom due to the sq ft and trying to find each other around the home.

wow never thought of that..

[aproudmom]

I'm not sure about any of their religions except I did read that Michael had converted like his brother to Isalm, and also read that Michael had been reading and knew the scriptures. I bet AS will be at the helm no matter what.

Thanks was not sure if he had converted IIRC they are suppose to be laid to rest with in so many days..which I am sure it is not the same with every one..I just heard that somewhere..

[*Serenity*]

wow never thought of that..

I just know Michael would have had an intercom system espcially with the children. Yea it is a leased home but when you look at the home from the aerial views - it was massive. The master bedroom always has a wall panel intercom with intercoms. (( I am also a Realtor here in California so I pay attention to intercoms and security systems.. lol ))
At any rate I really think that mansion had to have had one.

[juliekan]

i apologize if this has already been posted. just felt like it was a hometown article that might have more info about the doctor.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ent/6501143.html

Lawyer: Doctor denies giving Jackson Demerol

[aproudmom]

Neverland doesn't belong to Michael anymore...how can be be buried there??
Thanks for starting the new thread, Athena.

Suz it is not true then that he could have bought the note back for neverland? not sure just what they called it..but I though MJ could actually get Neverland back if he had the money..but could be wrong or bad reporting

[aproudmom]

i apologize if this has already been posted. just felt like it was a hometown article that might have more info about the doctor.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ent/6501143.html

Lawyer: Doctor denies giving Jackson Demerol

thank you julie and I have not seen it appreciate the link

[aproudmom]

I have never seen this..I guess I was just 7

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078504/
The Wiz (1978)

[juliekan]

The arial views of the home show it is massive mansion so I know that large of home has to have the intercom system. I have large sq ft home and no it is not a mansion or anything but have intercom due to the sq ft and trying to find each other around the home.

not necessarily so...

dh is a residential appraiser, and he says that intercoms "date" a house now...like makes them look like they are from the 70's-80's. JH(his)O. :shrug:

Maybe the houses he appraises just don't think they are "celebrity enough" for intercoms :rolleyes:

[aproudmom]

well I am going to watch this doc on Bio channel I can not multi-task and it is very good so far...see ya all..

[juliekan]

well I am going to watch this doc on Bio channel I can not multi-task and it is very good so far...see ya all..

come back tomorrow and tell us if it was good :smile:

[*Serenity*]

not necessarily so...

dh is a residential appraiser, and he says that intercoms "date" a house now...like makes them look like they are from the 70's-80's. JH(his)O. :shrug:

Maybe the houses he appraises just don't think they are "celebrity enough" for intercoms :rolleyes:

Technology and intercoms have come a long way... at least in the high end homes where I am located in So Cal. I know Celebs would have top of the line and their mansions would need a system like that-- that is massive square footage. Just a thought really and I would think the Dr would have had that available to him right there in the bedroom.
AND with stating he had a cell phone but didn't know the address he could have told 911 it was Michael Jackson's leased home with approximate cross street-- he couldn't have been that lost... IMO.
I just think even with a cell phone he could have done something.

[GentleBreeze]

Morning!

Does anyone know when the documentary is supposed to air this week?

I saw the guy that produced it on TV last week and he said it is about how wholesome a place Neverland really was.

I would love to see it.

TIA

[CRRJJ]

I was hoping that the stories about Debbie R. were true, and that she didn't want custody. I did hear somewhere today that it wasn't true, but I was hoping. This is going to be a mess. Those poor kids. Geez.

Yes, it is going to be tough on the kids and so sad because they had no say in how their life would be, but let's not forget, because he was so used to manipulating people for a lot of his life, HE was the one to come up with the idea on how these kids would be conceived, born, and raised. So now people are supposed to be careful what they say about him so the kids don't read or hear about it. They had to know that something wasn't right with their father. Faces covered all those years? What in the world?
Every child that loses a parent goes through a very sad time but he created this mess for them, no one else. I do wish them well. :sad:

[Scampi]

Good morning everyone. Interesting discussion about the possibility of an intercom in the bedroom and why Murray failed to use it.

Anyone have thoughts on what the detectives removed from the home yesterday in those two pink plastic bags? At least one of them appeared to have clothing, towels or sheets in them to me.

[who_is_it]

AP Exclusive: Jackson wrapped video before death

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jRg37cgg0-mEAX5cdx48aMi2calgD994LOEG2

[who_is_it]

Good morning everyone. Interesting discussion about the possibility of an intercom in the bedroom and why Murray failed to use it.

Anyone have thoughts on what the detectives removed from the home yesterday in those two pink plastic bags? At least one of them appeared to have clothing, towels or sheets in them to me.

What you suggested: all items of evidence like sheets and clothes imo.

[Dunlurken]

I found it interesting that the doctor, why can't I remember his name, Murray?

Anyway, he had just become Jackson's doctor in April I think it was, even though they had been friends since 2006. Man, my memory is shot. LOL.

Debbie Rowe? What a joke she is.

Michael's assets are about $1 billion. But with his debts...... I don't know. JMO.

[flipflop]

Michael Jackson signed a will in 2002 providing for his children and his mom, but leaving nothing to daddy Joe -- this according to the Wall Street Journal.

http://www.tmz.com/



I really hope this is true.

[Dunlurken]

Michael Jackson signed a will in 2002 providing for his children and his mom, but leaving nothing to daddy Joe -- this according to the Wall Street Journal.

http://www.tmz.com/



I really hope this is true.TMZ is usually correct. I thought they jumped the gun when they said he was deceased about 1/2 hour before network news channels reported anything.

I'm sure Michael had a will. Why it supposedly won't stand up in court makes no sense to me.

[Dunlurken]

So do I.

Question - has it been established for a fact that Joe and Michael's mother do not live together? Do we know what kind of contol he exerts over her now? Just curious.
Joe stays in Las Vegas, she stays in Encino. They own two homes... he stays in one, she stays at the other. I think I heard that Michael bought his Mom's. Not sure about Joe's though. JMO.

[who_is_it]

Michael's doc won't attend funeral

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/michaels-doc-wont-attend-funeral/

I could imagine he gets death threads. So much blame shifted on him. He might have made mistakes but I still believe accidentally. I hope he's not at risk to commit suicide.

[flipflop]

You know how it is. Some always look for a scapegoat and it looks like he may be a primary target in this case.

I don't think he "killed" MJ. I just have questions about some of his actions.

[Dunlurken]

You know how it is. Some always look for a scapegoat and it looks like he may be a primary target in this case.

There needs to be some sort of data base where doctors can see what other doctors are prescribing. But, then again, enablers get meds in their own name, and give them to the person. That's what happened with Anna Nicole Smith, and probably Michael too.

[PBJMOM4]

Looks like Joe Jackson was cut out from the Will.
(according to TMZ site)

[Dunlurken]

Looks like Joe Jackson was cut out from the Will.
(according to TMZ site)

Can you give us the link? I hope that guy never sees those kids. I wish Catherine would divorce him, but I'm sure she won't.

[flipflop]

Looks like Joe Jackson was cut out from the Will.
(according to TMZ site)

I sure hope so. It might be a small, last dig at his father but MJ at least got the last "HA"

[who_is_it]

Can you give us the link? I hope that guy never sees those kids. I wish Catherine would divorce him, but I'm sure she won't.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/jacksons-dad-aced-out-of-will/

[PBJMOM4]

Can you give us the link? I hope that guy never sees those kids. I wish Catherine would divorce him, but I'm sure she won't.

I'll try, don't remember how to link.
http://www.tmz.com/

[who_is_it]

correction of my post above:
--> threats

[who_is_it]

I'll try, don't remember how to link.
http://www.tmz.com/

I already posted the deep link. For a deep link you have to click on the article, then copy the address you see in your browser and paste it in your post.

[PBJMOM4]

I already posted the deep link. For a deep link you have to click on the article, then copy the address you see in your browser and paste it in your post.

Thank you!

[tv4me]

NOt sure if this is true as I haven't seen or heard anything about this. A co-worker last night told me that one of the boys (not sure if it's the 93 or 05 case) held a press conference and announced that all the charges he made against MJ were a lie and he had been forced to lie to the grand jury by his dad. Said he felt terrible for what he had done to MJ. I was also told that the kid put his confession on Youtube, but it has since been taken down.

Is this true? Is so, why isn't it all over the news? Has anyone else heard this or have I been "punked" by a co-worker?

[who_is_it]

Technology and intercoms have come a long way... at least in the high end homes where I am located in So Cal. I know Celebs would have top of the line and their mansions would need a system like that-- that is massive square footage. Just a thought really and I would think the Dr would have had that available to him right there in the bedroom.
AND with stating he had a cell phone but didn't know the address he could have told 911 it was Michael Jackson's leased home with approximate cross street-- he couldn't have been that lost... IMO.
I just think even with a cell phone he could have done something.

@ your post on the old thread:

There are people who are like children in practical life... and yes, there are people who don't have a cell... but a doctor who always has to be prepared for an emergency? I also can't imagine there was no staff around... and anyone of the staff must have had a mobile and known the address.

I believe that MJ already died at this home but there was a reason why the doc doesn't want to believe the authorities and public he died at home.

Imo one reason could be that he just didn't want to be responsible for MJ's death in his presence. Another reason could be that there were drugs involved and that there's any medical reason why he wanted to pretend the official time of death was later than it actually was.

I believe Michael died accidentally.

[who_is_it]

NOt sure if this is true as I haven't seen or heard anything about this. A co-worker last night told me that one of the boys (not sure if it's the 93 or 05 case) held a press conference and announced that all the charges he made against MJ were a lie and he had been forced to lie to the grand jury by his dad. Said he felt terrible for what he had done to MJ. I was also told that the kid put his confession on Youtube, but it has since been taken down.

Is this true? Is so, why isn't it all over the news? Has anyone else heard this or have I been "punked" by a co-worker?

There was a hoax all over the web. Unfortunately it was a hoax.

[flipflop]

NOt sure if this is true as I haven't seen or heard anything about this. A co-worker last night told me that one of the boys (not sure if it's the 93 or 05 case) held a press conference and announced that all the charges he made against MJ were a lie and he had been forced to lie to the grand jury by his dad. Said he felt terrible for what he had done to MJ. I was also told that the kid put his confession on Youtube, but it has since been taken down.

Is this true? Is so, why isn't it all over the news? Has anyone else heard this or have I been "punked" by a co-worker?

I have not heard this. Hope someone posts a link, if true.

[flipflop]

We've learned Michael Jackson was not the biological father of any of his children. And Debbie Rowe is not the biological mother of the two kids she bore for Michael. All three children were conceived in vitro -- outside the womb.


TMZ article. Wow.

[who_is_it]

@tv4me

As I'm convinced Michael never molested Gavin Arvizo and Jordan Chandler I would have hoped so much one of the men says the truth. Nevertheless it won't happen as they would be prosecuted for PERJURY if they admitted their past allegations were false.

[PBJMOM4]

We've learned Michael Jackson was not the biological father of any of his children. And Debbie Rowe is not the biological mother of the two kids she bore for Michael. All three children were conceived in vitro -- outside the womb.


TMZ article. Wow.

<THUD> Just when I thought it would be a slower news day!

[KatieLady]

Could that really happen, though, considering they were a kid under the coersion of a parent?

IMO LE would go after the dad not the boy

[Dunlurken]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/jacksons-dad-aced-out-of-will/

Thank you. Sorry, I was vacuuming my house. LOL.

[Dunlurken]

We've learned Michael Jackson was not the biological father of any of his children. And Debbie Rowe is not the biological mother of the two kids she bore for Michael. All three children were conceived in vitro -- outside the womb.


TMZ article. Wow.

I find that hard to believe. That one girl looks just like Debbie Rowe. Could it be she provided the eggs and the sperm was not Michael's? JMO. I definitely don't think the two oldest are bi-racial. JMO.

[warhorse46]

We've learned Michael Jackson was not the biological father of any of his children. And Debbie Rowe is not the biological mother of the two kids she bore for Michael. All three children were conceived in vitro -- outside the womb.


TMZ article. Wow.


In vitro conception does not mean the embryo did not come from the ova of the woman whom it was implanted in. Rowe's own ova could have been used. Only dna testing would tell if she is the biological mother or not.

[who_is_it]

Could that really happen, though, considering they were a kid under the coersion of a parent?

I didn't consider this aspect. Yes, you're absolutely right. The parents would go to jail.

Jordan Chandler fell out with his father. So there would be a chance. The father is believed to suffer from an incurable disease. Maybe he would speak out after his death.

I don't think Gavin Arvizo would like to see his mother prosecuted again -- "again" because she was convicted for wellfare fraud after the Jackson trial.

[flipflop]

In vitro conception does not mean the embryo did not come from the ova of the woman whom it was implanted in. Rowe's own ova could have been used. Only dna testing would tell if she is the biological mother or not.

Multiple sources deeply connected to the births tell us Michael was not the sperm donor for any of his kids. Debbie's eggs were not used. She was merely the surrogate, and paid well for her services in the births of Michael Jr. and Paris.

That is from the same article.

[Dunlurken]

I think BOTH of the children look like Debbie Rowe. DNA will prove/disprove any claims. Who is saying Debbie isn't the bio-mother?

I think TMZ. Hi War! :seeya:

It wouldn't surprise me if Michael isn't the bio-dad, but why not just give his sperm. I guess DNA tests will prove if both of them are, or are not, the bio-parents. JMO.

[Dunlurken]

Just wait until the third child's bio-Mom comes into the picture. IIRC, Michael supposedly grabbed the child with the umbilical chord still attached and whisked it away. Blanket. JMO.

[Mairi II]

I think TMZ. Hi War! :seeya:

It wouldn't surprise me if Michael isn't the bio-dad, but why not just give his sperm. I guess DNA tests will prove if both of them are, or are not, the bio-parents. JMO.

Maybe he didn't have any to donate? If he was receiving hormone therapy to maintain his high voice, let's say, I wonder if that would inhibit sperm production?

[Dunlurken]

Maybe he didn't have any to donate? If he was receiving hormone therapy to maintain his high voice, let's say, I wonder if that would inhibit sperm production?
I think he received hormone therapy at an early age, to keep his voice high. Joe probably asked and made that happen. So, maybe Michael was not able to produce sperm. You have a good point.

[Mairi II]

I think he received hormone therapy at an early age, to keep his voice high. Joe probably asked and made that happen. So, maybe Michael was not able to produce sperm. You have a good point.

I was wondering if he had the therapy and then stopped if he could start producing sperm again. I dunno.

He was being treated by a Mayo Clinic doctor with hormones in the 1980-1985'ish. This I know for a fact because the doctor who was treating him was a personal friend of my ex's and myself.

[VC2]

I think TMZ. Hi War! :seeya:

It wouldn't surprise me if Michael isn't the bio-dad, but why not just give his sperm. I guess DNA tests will prove if both of them are, or are not, the bio-parents. JMO.

and with vitiligo, since one of the causes is believed to be genetic, MJ likely wouldn't want to chance passing it on given his own issues with his looks.

IMO

[cutiepatootie61]

Multiple sources deeply connected to the births tell us Michael was not the sperm donor for any of his kids. Debbie's eggs were not used. She was merely the surrogate, and paid well for her services in the births of Michael Jr. and Paris.

That is from the same article.

Just when you think this can't get anymore "out there". I assume since they were married and she carried these children that would by law make them hers anyway? The circus grows by the minute!

[vonna]

I think TMZ. Hi War! :seeya:

It wouldn't surprise me if Michael isn't the bio-dad, but why not just give his sperm. I guess DNA tests will prove if both of them are, or are not, the bio-parents. JMO.

It would surprise me if he were.

[cutiepatootie61]

Entertainment Tonight is claiming that Debbie Rowe is the mother of MJ's oldest two children. They claim to have uncovered the bio dad, saying it is the dermatologist that MJ was treated by and the office in which Debbie worked.

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/06/75922/index.html

[SDMermaid]

She was just a surrogate she isn't even the bio mother and neither is MJ which I knew anyways.

http://www.tmz.com/

I think people will be mad at her regardless of when or if she tries for those kids. That she sold. IMO

[Citygirl]

and with vitiligo, since one of the causes is believed to be genetic, MJ likely wouldn't want to chance passing it on given his own issues with his looks.

IMO


..and since being African American is genetic also..and Michael was tryin so hard to be Caucasian he didn't want to pass along "being black" either..
he prolly went to "the" bank and picked a male that he wanted to end up lookin like..and so he and the children would match at some point..
that's what I think happened..

[LiLMaggie]

Not sure if this was posted yet.

Jackson Court Hearings Set for July 6

"In the papers, Billie Jean Jackson claims to be the mother of Michael Jackson's son, Prince Michael Jackson II aka Blanket. Billie Jean filed for joint legal and physical custody of Blanket in December 2008, and asked for $1 billion in child support and to participate in Blanket's education and weekend life."

http://extratv.warnerbros.com/2009/06/jackson_court_hearings_set_for.php

[Unperson1984]

@tv4me

As I'm convinced Michael never molested Gavin Arvizo and Jordan Chandler I would have hoped so much one of the men says the truth. Nevertheless it won't happen as they would be prosecuted for PERJURY if they admitted their past allegations were false.

They were minors at the time of their testimony and the statute of limitations is long passed for perjury charges.

[LiLMaggie]

Then she shouldn't have a problem with DNA testing. MO

I completely agree.

[SDMermaid]

MJ didn't like the way he looked so that's why he didn't use his sperm he probably didn't want people to tease his kids like he was teased for his acne and big nose. IMO

I think TMZ. Hi War! :seeya:

It wouldn't surprise me if Michael isn't the bio-dad, but why not just give his sperm. I guess DNA tests will prove if both of them are, or are not, the bio-parents. JMO.

[lilismom]

Not sure if this was posted yet.

Jackson Court Hearings Set for July 6

"In the papers, Billie Jean Jackson claims to be the mother of Michael Jackson's son, Prince Michael Jackson II aka Blanket. Billie Jean filed for joint legal and physical custody of Blanket in December 2008, and asked for $1 billion in child support and to participate in Blanket's education and weekend life."

http://extratv.warnerbros.com/2009/06/jackson_court_hearings_set_for.php


and did I read wrong or does the petition also claim that Billie Jean claims she is Michael's wife? Billie Jean? Come on. This cannot be for real.

Billie Jean is not my lover, she's just a girl that claims that I am the one...

RIP Michael. Some day.

IMO,
Lilismom

[SDMermaid]

I believe this news is nothing compared to what will come out in the next week with having to divide the property and fighting on who gets what and who will get the kids. I wonder if Grace will write a book she put up with MJ for 17 yrs and he fired her many times because she was just trying to save him from himself it would be interesting to see what the real MJ was beyond the icon image. The Jackson family better pay her off quick!

Just when you think this can't get anymore "out there". I assume since they were married and she carried these children that would by law make them hers anyway? The circus grows by the minute!

[mrsmcgoo]

He never adopted the children! Wow!

http://www.tmz.com/

[SDMermaid]

OMG the real dad is MJ's dermatologist???:scared: So does he have a claim?


Entertainment Tonight is claiming that Debbie Rowe is the mother of MJ's oldest two children. They claim to have uncovered the bio dad, saying it is the dermatologist that MJ was treated by and the office in which Debbie worked.

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/06/75922/index.html

[SDMermaid]

TMZ hasn't been wrong yet


How did you know?

[lilismom]

He never adopted the children! Wow!

http://www.tmz.com/


Who would he have had to adopt them from? I'm confused.

This just gets more and more complicated as the minutes go by.

IMO,
Lilismom

[mrsmcgoo]

Wasn't he married to Debbie Rowe when the first two children were born? Why would he need to adopt? MO

If both were not biological parents, somebody has to adopt them.

JMO

[SDMermaid]

She's just some crazy fan. She claims her and MJ were married


Not sure if this was posted yet.

Jackson Court Hearings Set for July 6

"In the papers, Billie Jean Jackson claims to be the mother of Michael Jackson's son, Prince Michael Jackson II aka Blanket. Billie Jean filed for joint legal and physical custody of Blanket in December 2008, and asked for $1 billion in child support and to participate in Blanket's education and weekend life."

http://extratv.warnerbros.com/2009/06/jackson_court_hearings_set_for.php

[mrsmcgoo]

Who would he have had to adopt them from? I'm confused.

This just gets more and more complicated as the minutes go by.

IMO,
Lilismom

Not sure just what they are saying, just as per the link I provided.

[SDMermaid]

If he paid for them to be made would he have to adopted them?


He never adopted the children! Wow!

http://www.tmz.com/

[lilismom]

She filed because she's always arrested when she tries to visit?

Is she the crazy stalker or...really the mother of one of his sons? Very interesting.

Who the heck knows. What a mess.

No matter what though, adopted, biological, or not, Michael is the only parent those kids know. How sad for them.

IMO,
Lilismom

[Unperson1984]

He never adopted the children! Wow!

http://www.tmz.com/

He didn't need to adopt the older two, they were born during his marriage to Rowe. He did need to adopt the youngest.

[mrsmcgoo]

If he paid for them to be made would he have to adopted them?

Good point, not sure how this would work. :confused:

[lilismom]

He didn't need to adopt the older two, they were born during his marriage to Rowe. He did need to adopt the youngest.

Isn't there some sort of signed legal document between surrogates and the would be parents that would prevent these issues from coming up in the future?

IMO,
Lilismom

[Scampi]

Not sure if this was posted yet.

Jackson Court Hearings Set for July 6

"In the papers, Billie Jean Jackson claims to be the mother of Michael Jackson's son, Prince Michael Jackson II aka Blanket. Billie Jean filed for joint legal and physical custody of Blanket in December 2008, and asked for $1 billion in child support and to participate in Blanket's education and weekend life."

http://extratv.warnerbros.com/2009/06/jackson_court_hearings_set_for.php


Hmm, interesting. Did this woman ever dance on the floor in the round?







lol

[mrsmcgoo]

Hmm, interesting. Did this woman ever dance on the floor in the round?







lol


:lol: That was funny!

[Prissie]

..and since being African American is genetic also..and Michael was tryin so hard to be Caucasian he didn't want to pass along "being black" either..
he prolly went to "the" bank and picked a male that he wanted to end up lookin like..and so he and the children would match at some point..
that's what I think happened..


He really did want to be white didn't he? That says so much about his inner turmoil about his dad and wanting to be so different.
I feel so bad for him or anyone with all that sadness in him.

[CinderL.]

:seeya: morning.

I see that the news people are starting to mess with peoples lives early today. When are they going to go back to reporting the "news" instead of creating it? Just one of my pet peeves lately.

[Scampi]

:lol: That was funny!

:wink: This case is going to bring out all the little wingnuts.

I see Debbie Rowe and Joe Jackson contesting this will, doesn't matter if they have a case or not, imo, they can gum up the works if they want too and the executor may feel it's just better to pay them off so everything can be settled quickly.

I think California is one of the states that publishes wills, anyone know for sure?

[Unperson1984]

Isn't there some sort of signed legal document between surrogates and the would be parents that would prevent these issues from coming up in the future?

IMO,
Lilismom

The fact that he was legally married to Rowe means that she can't be called a surrogate. In California a child born to a wife is the legal child of the husband, unless the husband challenges the child's paternity.

[SDMermaid]

IMO I think it's sad that MJ was a parent in the first place. He needed to get his act together and be stable before bring kids in the picture. He was a mental mess and I hope his kids didn't pick up his weird behaviors. If Joe is as bad as everyone says he is how come no one in that family is as messed up as MJ was? Those other brothers and sisters didn't get a childhood either.


Who the heck knows. What a mess.

No matter what though, adopted, biological, or not, Michael is the only parent those kids know. How sad for them.

IMO,
Lilismom

[SDMermaid]

Of all the surgeries MJ had what's with the thing he did to his chin? I looks like it has a dent in it

[MoonHarvest]

Of all the surgeries MJ had what's with the thing he did to his chin? I looks like it has a dent in it

I think it's some kind of plastic/metal plate/piece he had inserted.

[CinderL.]

Of all the surgeries MJ had what's with the thing he did to his chin? I looks like it has a dent in it

chin implant.

[Mimi428]

------------

I can imagine the books these kids will write when they get older. Remember Christina Crawford? jmo

I think every person who spent a significant amount of time involved with MJ's day-to-day activities could probably write a book that would either curl your hair or take the curl right out of it (depending on how your hair is to begin with!).

JMO

[CinderL.]

Does anyone know if that Dateline show last night.....the repeat of the Basur (sp) documentary was only the one part? I never saw the show when it first aired. Watched part of it last night. Don't know if there is more or just the one hour. :confused:

[lilismom]

Of all the surgeries MJ had what's with the thing he did to his chin? I looks like it has a dent in it

To question one thing is to question it all. Who knows what he and the doctors that did the surgeries were thinking.

So sad.

IMO,
Lilismom

[CinderL.]

MJ claimed he never had any plastic surgery. :rolleyes:

That made me laugh when I head him say that on the documentary.

[SDMermaid]

Yeah he probably did get it worse then the rest of the kids. I witnessed my parents having sex 2 times when I was 6 and at 7 didn't know what the heck was going on but I tried to save my mom I thought my dad was hurting her because she was screaming lol! And when I was 11 I spent the night on my friends boat in Catalina Island and witnessed my friends parents doing something under the covers but that didn't mess me up.


I think things were different for MJ, though, because he was the star and all the pressure was on him....especially from his father. I'm sure he got the brunt of the beatings. (those were the dynamics in DH's family, he got the brunt of the beatings and he ended up with a whole different set of problems than his brothers)

I'm sure it also didn't help matters that he was stuck in a hotel room as a child witnessing adults having sex. IMO, that right there has a lot to do with MJ's issues.

[SDMermaid]

I don't care for Sharpton nor Jesse they remind me of Donald Trump all media whores.


Al Sharpton and MJ have known each other for 35 years. Al Sharpton was also very instrumental in attempting to keep MJs spirit up during the trial too

[SDMermaid]

His chin was fine...but then the rest of him was fine 1984-1985

chin implant.

[lilismom]

OK...............here's my message to all the people who think they r the bio parents of the 3 kids................TAKE A DNA TEST ALREADY AND SHUT THE HELL UP. just please let the kids go on to live a normal happy life for once. jmo


well said. reminds me of the kooks coming out of the woodwork to claim Dannielynn. where were these people when it wasn't about the money?

IMO,
Lilismom

[SDMermaid]

I heard him say once that he only had 2 nose jobs. I like Dolly Parton at least she's honest about getting everything done on her lol!


MJ claimed he never had any plastic surgery. :rolleyes:

[emdragon]

She sold them- signed contracts and has not been a part of their lives. Her ranch and the money has kept her pretty happy thusfar... the only thing I can think right now is that her monthly or yearly income from Michael might be at stake now with him dead, hence she would need the kids back to obtain additional funds.

Hopefully a judge can see right through her antics and keep the children's best interest in mind.

So does it change anyone's opinion on Debbie now that we are hearing she was only the surrogate and is not the biological mother?


If not then I have to ask again why is it wrong and vile for Debbie but it was fine and dandy for Michael to BUY children.

[CinderL.]

His chin was fine...but then the rest of him was fine 1984-1985

Yes, I thought he was very cute. And then he started messing with everything. Not good. I actually think his plastic surgeon ought to lose his/ her license.

[FallenAngel♥]

Hmm, interesting. Did this woman ever dance on the floor in the round?







lol

OMG you are too much.

:lol:

[CinderL.]

So does it change anyone's opinion on Debbie now that we are hearing she was only the surrogate and is not the biological mother?


If not then I have to ask again why is it wrong and vile for Debbie but it was fine and dandy for Michael to BUY children.

If she was just the surrogate, she got paid for her services, and that is that. If she now wants the kids, that is another story. I have heard conflicting (big surprise) stories about whether she does or doesn't. MO

[FallenAngel♥]

Yes, I thought he was very cute. And then he started messing with everything. Not good. I actually think his plastic surgeon ought to lose his/ her license.

i might be wrong but i think he went to several plastic surgeons because that one dr that was on LKL the other night had a letter he sent MJ back in 2002 telling him he would not work with him anymore because he felt like he had already had too many surgeries.

[CinderL.]

Near the end of yesterday's thread annalyzer posted links to the documentary on You Tube - think it is 7 parts. Might wanna watch that one too as Maury Povich also shows how it was taken out of context due to editing.

So far I haven't seen anything really all that controversial. Except how many urns can one person possible need? :laugh: He must have bought 30 of them at some shop in Vegas. YIKES

[CinderL.]

i might be wrong but i think he went to several plastic surgeons because that one dr that was on LKL the other night had a letter he sent MJ back in 2002 telling him he would not work with him anymore because he felt like he had already had too many surgeries.

Good for him. True, as has been stated, if someone wants surgeries, drugs, whatever, unfortunately there is a Dr. out there that will do it.

[CinderL.]

-------------

who bought 30 urns?

MJ, in the documentary was in some antique shop showing all of the stuff he bought.

[Ice Cycle]

Not sure if this was posted yet.

Jackson Court Hearings Set for July 6

"In the papers, Billie Jean Jackson claims to be the mother of Michael Jackson's son, Prince Michael Jackson II aka Blanket. Billie Jean filed for joint legal and physical custody of Blanket in December 2008, and asked for $1 billion in child support and to participate in Blanket's education and weekend life."

http://extratv.warnerbros.com/2009/06/jackson_court_hearings_set_for.php

Ok not been posting much on this tread but had to reply to this- this can't be for real. So he gets a surrogate Mother that just happens to be the title of his song he did about 20 years prior. This is suppose to be a coincidence, or did he know her back then?
Really "Off the Wall"! Wondering is their a forth child out there somewhere, named Chance?? Or whatever he says in the song.

[KaraokeDiva]

I didn't consider this aspect. Yes, you're absolutely right. The parents would go to jail.

<snipped>fell out with his father. So there would be a chance. The father is believed to suffer from an incurable disease. Maybe he would speak out after his death.

I don't think <snipped> would like to see his mother prosecuted again -- "again" because she was convicted for wellfare fraud after the Jackson trial.Are we allowed to post the names of minors now?

I got banned for posting the first name only of a minor child yet you're posting full names and people are quotting you w/o snipping the names out.

:confused:

[Dunlurken]

Are we allowed to post the names of minors now?

I got banned for posting the first name only of a minor child yet you're posting full names and people are quotting you w/o snipping the names out.

:confused:

I think we can, because the news is reporting their names all over the place. JMO. Don't quote me though.

[aproudmom]

Michael studied with a Rabbi and other religious leaders.
Janet was wearing a big diamond cross last night... representtive of Christian beliefs. Their parents are , or were practicing Jehovah witnesses.
If Reverend Sharpton or Jesse Jackson are at the helm so be it.
They have been great civil rights leaders as well as spiritual advisors to the black community.
I would be honored if one of them performed my funeral service.
In any case,,,,,,that is neither here nor there.
A person's religious beliefs are personal and priviledged.
my bolding

You just said what I was asking if it was his religion it is his beliefs then what he would want should happen it will be his memorial not any of the others you named..I do not care I just ask if he had converted to Islam or not did not need a lecture on everyone's religion..MJ beliefs could have not been the same so I was not asking about AS Jessie J, or anyone in the Jackson family I was asking about Michael Jackson thank you

NOT A BIG DEAL NO NEED TO HAVE A RELIGION BATTLE it was just a simple question :rolleyes:

[flipflop]

We've just learned Michael Jackson's body is set to be driven to Neverland Ranch late Thursday morning.


http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/jacksons-body-to-return-to-neverland/

[aproudmom]

So the memorial will be at Neverland....

[MoonHarvest]

"Report: Dermatologist is Jacko's Kids Biological Father"

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06302009/news/nationalnews/dermatologist_is_jacko_kids_biological_f_176868.ht m

"A Los Angeles dermatologist who treated Michael Jackson for years is the biological father of Jackson's son and daughter, according to a bombshell new report."


:angry:All things aside, shame on the press and everyone involved, the children don't need or deserve this now.:sad:

[KaraokeDiva]

I think we can, because the news is reporting their names all over the place. JMO. Don't quote me though.
I don't believe we are allowed to...but then maybe only some people get banned for posting the name of a minor child...

I got banned forever because I posted the first name of a child and I only knew that name because his mother and grandmother had posted it here...and I don't believe the last name was known by anyone other than the mother and grandmother.

So I don't believe posting the full name of a minor is allowed.

Those who have posted the name should ask to have their posts removed...and those who quoted the posts with the names should do the same.

In the recent case of the 8 year old child who was charged with double murder, we were not allowed to post his name. Being the victim of a famous person doesn't change the forum rules IMO.

ETA...I quoted you on it. lol

[MoonHarvest]

I saw the interview Athena. For me right now the only sane and reliable voice right now throughout this is: Deepak Chopra.

[aproudmom]

omg outside the APOLLO is packed for the musical memorial for MJ..Live CNN

[MoonHarvest]

I agree with you but I would add Tom Mesereau to that as well. I thought he shared some insight I haven't heard from others and thought it enlightening. JMO


I understand, but as a rule: I just don't trust lawyers.

[aproudmom]

I agree with you but I would add Tom Mesereau to that as well. I thought he shared some insight I haven't heard from others and thought it enlightening. JMO

I agree saw him last night on one of the shows

[emdragon]

I don't believe we are allowed to...but then maybe only some people get banned for posting the name of a minor child...

I got banned forever because I posted the first name of a child and I only knew that name because his mother and grandmother had posted it here...and I don't believe the last name was known by anyone other than the mother and grandmother.

So I don't believe posting the full name of a minor is allowed.

Those who have posted the name should ask to have their posts removed...and those who quoted the posts with the names should do the same.

In the recent case of the 8 year old child who was charged with double murder, we were not allowed to post his name. Being the victim of a famous person doesn't change the forum rules IMO.

ETA...I quoted you on it. lol

Jackson's children are not part of a criminal investigation, they are neither a victim of a violent crime or the perpetrator.

Do you understand the difference?

[MoonHarvest]

-----------

Very true but i'm sure the kids r being sheltered from hearing anything in the press. Also.....lets face it.........sooner or later they will learn a lot about who the bio parents are. But now is not the time. jmo

Has the press or whomever first released this no limit? Yes, in time perhaps, IF the children wanted to know. But right now? Their little hearts , no matter what anyone reports, have to be very fragile, broken, and afraid. They lost their FATHER, whom I'm sure was very real to them. (sigh):sad:

[CinderL.]

We've just learned Michael Jackson's body is set to be driven to Neverland Ranch late Thursday morning.


http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/jacksons-body-to-return-to-neverland/

They are going to have a lot of work to do there. I heard yesterday, the place is a mess. Grounds and house. All of the rides are gone, and most of the furniture. :confused:

[CinderL.]

----------

I remember many years ago when it was reported that he bought a watch for 6 million dollars. now can someone tell me how a watch could be worth that much money? lol

Diamonds??? Big ones???

[aproudmom]

http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/101532/fans-to-honor-michael-jackson-at-the-apollo/Default.aspx

thanks I knew they were planning something there all those people:ohmy:..thank you appreciate the link

[flipflop]

They are going to have a lot of work to do there. I heard yesterday, the place is a mess. Grounds and house. All of the rides are gone, and most of the furniture. :confused:


Yeah. I don't know. They don't have much time.

[aproudmom]

Diamonds??? Big ones???

lol I could see that just watching the reality show with the Housewives they have some hefty huge diamonds that are as big as them...:wink:

[KaraokeDiva]

Jackson's children are not part of a criminal investigation, they are neither a victim of a violent crime or the perpetrator.

Do you understand the difference?I'm not referring to Jackson's children. But then you do make a good point, they are also minor children...

I was referring to posting the names of the molestation victims or alleged victims, depending on your perspective. The '93 victim may not be a minor anymore but the other one definitely is still a minor.

[CinderL.]

Yeah. I don't know. They don't have much time.

Sad that it got so bad. It seemed like a wonderful place. I would have liked to see it at it's best.

[emdragon]

Are they going to bury him at Neverland as well?

I am having a slight tantrum just hearing the viewing will be there- can nothing Jackson do not parallel ELVIS?

Will Neverland be the Graceland of the west? :angry:

Meanwhile anyone know the time of Farrah's service? And since CNN is busy with the Apollo are they even going to cover it?

[aproudmom]

Yeah. I don't know. They don't have much time.

I did NOT like how they said it on CNN his body would be moved back to Neverland on Thursday..and they are worried about the traffic first of all his body did not leave there MJ left there maybe I am being picky on words but he loved the place and he pretty much lost it all he did not leave because he wanted to he could not afford it..and you 2 are right they were talking yesterday or the day before how it was not in the greatest shape....

breaking news MJ body will be brought back to Neverland thursday by motorcade..makes it sound like this is were he died..

[dinojen]

Are they going to bury him at Neverland as well?

I am having a slight tantrum just hearing the viewing will be there- can nothing Jackson do not parallel ELVIS?

Will Neverland be the Graceland of the west? :angry:

Meanwhile anyone know the time of Farrah's service? And since CNN is busy with the Apollo are they even going to cover it?

Farrah's services are at 4 PM PST at the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels ... today.. and it is PRIVATE.. I'm sure it will be quite as she would of wanted it.. She makes a wonderful angel..

[Scampi]

CNN is reporting that a public viewing is planned for Friday at Neverland and that a private memorial for the family is planned for Sunday.

No information on where MJ will be buried.

I bet we see fans lining the route from LA to the Santa Barbara hills and Neverland. I think this is an excellent choice because the Jackson family can control security very well there.

[emdragon]

I'm not referring to Jackson's children. But then you do make a good point, they are also minor children...

I was referring to posting the names of the molestation victims or alleged victims, depending on your perspective. The '93 victim may not be a minor anymore but the other one definitely is still a minor.

Well I don't know why but I know that we post the names of the children of people in the news all the time with no problem.. the Palin,Obama kids as examples.

What minors are you talking about? If is the two alleged victims they are no longer minors- if not them then I must have missed the posts you have an issue with.

[aproudmom]

Are they going to bury him at Neverland as well?

I am having a slight tantrum just hearing the viewing will be there- can nothing Jackson do not parallel ELVIS?

Will Neverland be the Graceland of the west? :angry:

Meanwhile anyone know the time of Farrah's service? And since CNN is busy with the Apollo are they even going to cover it?

his father said he would not be buried there but it has not been reported just were he will be laid to rest..Joe said he would not be buried there yesterday so maybe they are just having the memorial there..

I was just looking for Farrah's but it is all private and invitation only so do not know if we will see anything..not sure on the time they are a few hours behind me just said this afternoon not sure the time

[Scampi]

Why are you having a tantrum? Elvis had Graceland - MJ had Neverland?

Don't see the big deal. JMO

I don't see the problem either and perhaps these are Michael Jackson's wishes.

[emdragon]

Farrah's services are at 4 PM PST at the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels ... today.. and it is PRIVATE.. I'm sure it will be quite as she would of wanted it.. She makes a wonderful angel..

Thanks! (dial up at work so I hadn't checked CNN yet)
I'm glad Redmond will be there and that thanks to MJ the media won't- but I would expect acknowledgment of the service.

[aproudmom]

Are they going to bury him at Neverland as well?

I am having a slight tantrum just hearing the viewing will be there- can nothing Jackson do not parallel ELVIS?

Will Neverland be the Graceland of the west? :angry:

Meanwhile anyone know the time of Farrah's service? And since CNN is busy with the Apollo are they even going to cover it?

this is just the first one I found they are not releasing much Ryan did all the planning and wants it private
http://www.kansascity.com/stargazing/story/1296186.html

[Ice Cycle]

This is what Wikipedia has to say about the song Billy Jean, wondering if he actually knew her.

Billie Jean" is a dance-pop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance-pop) R&B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%26B) song by American recording artist Michael Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson). It was written by Jackson and produced by Quincy Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quincy_Jones) for the singer's sixth solo album, Thriller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thriller_(album)) (1982). Originally disliked by Jones, the track was almost removed from the album after he and Jackson had numerous disagreements. The song's lyrics refer to a real-life experience, in which a mentally ill female fan claimed that Jackson fathered one of her twins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twins). The song is well known for its distinctive bass line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_line) and Jackson's vocal hiccups. The song was mixed 91 times by Bruce Swedien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Swedien) before it was finalized.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billie_Jean

[MoonHarvest]

IMO If Joe had his way...he'd load the body on the back of a trailer and take it on tour.


:lol::lol::lol:more than likely.

[aproudmom]

CNN said they are the only ones allowed in?? anyway here is live feed

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream3

[emdragon]

Why are you having a tantrum? Elvis had Graceland - MJ had Neverland?

Don't see the big deal. JMO

Because Jackson always wanted to be Elvis and he did things in his life to insure it- just listen to Lisa Marie when she said he knew he would die like Elvis.
Graceland-----Neverland no similarities at all right?

It has always annoyed me- always thought "Michael be original"
Michael Jackson is not and never was Elvis.

And sadly for his children no one in the Jackson camp is Priscilla- that woman grew a fortune and made sure her daughter would always be taken care of and that Elvis would always be remembered well.

I am afraid the Jackson's will never find one person who can agree on how things will be done- and no not Janet either. I believe if Janet was the tower of strength many think she is she would have the children not Kathrine.

[Scampi]

Yeah, but I would think California would have rules about such things. Can't imagine the legalities of it.

Neverland is a 2800 acre property. I doubt very much they would have any problem burying MJ there if that was what he wanted.

[who_is_it]

Are we allowed to post the names of minors now?

I got banned for posting the first name only of a minor child yet you're posting full names and people are quotting you w/o snipping the names out.

:confused:

Firstly the media print their names, too. Secondly they're not minors anymore. Jordy is in his mid twenties, I guess. Thirdly Janet Arvizo, the accuser's mother convicted for wellfare fraud, married someone called Jackson. Fourthly Gavin Arvizo meanwhile has changed his name.

[who_is_it]

Cops Target Needles in Jackson Search

"We now know what the LAPD was after when it got a search warrant for Michael Jackson's home.

The warrant was specifically targeted to find controlled substances and paraphernalia -- in particular needles."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/cops-targets-meds-in-jackson-search/

[emdragon]

-------------

Elvis is buried in his backyard.

There was already a family plot at Graceland when Elvis died his mother was already resting there.

[vonna]

I don't see the problem either and perhaps these are Michael Jackson's wishes.

His wishes would have been contained in a will which he appears not to have had. This sounds more like the machinations of Joe to me.

[aproudmom]

That's not true. MJ said it no longer felt like home and he never wanted to set foot in it again. Then he left the country.

Since when can a person be buried in their own backyard??? Are they just going to drag his body there for a memorial/viewing ???:confused:

O my bad I thought he loved it and had to leave because people hated him and he could not work in the states even after he was found NG and then his money and debts..I think he left more over the media slamming him for so long..but could be wrong I was actually shocked to hear he would not want to be there but OK...LOL..

Elvis is buried at Graceland but not sure if MJ is actually going to be buried there they say no but guess we shall see..

[who_is_it]

Michael Jackson's Net Worth Revealed

"Despite massive debt, Michael Jackson still claimed to have a net worth of $200 million, this according to papers obtained by the AP."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/michael-jacksons-net-worth-revealed/

He was and is worth more than a figure: appreciation and dignity which increases by trashy media reports day by day.

[Scampi]

His wishes would have been contained in a will which he appears not to have had. This sounds more like the machinations of Joe to me.

There is a will and it has been filed with the court already. Check the links thread.

[MoonHarvest]

Cops Target Needles in Jackson Search

"We now know what the LAPD was after when it got a search warrant for Michael Jackson's home.

The warrant was specifically targeted to find controlled substances and paraphernalia -- in particular needles."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/cops-targets-meds-in-jackson-search/

The needles are exactly what I thought.

Thanks...

[aproudmom]

IMO If Joe had his way...he'd load the body on the back of a trailer and take it on tour.

:laugh:omg ok I will move on

[aproudmom]

I HAVE NO VOLUME but see alot of dancing anyone else watching it??if so let me know if it is my speakers...please:wub:

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream3

[who_is_it]

-----------

Very true but i'm sure the kids r being sheltered from hearing anything in the press. Also.....lets face it.........sooner or later they will learn a lot about who the bio parents are. But now is not the time. jmo

They will never learn it if it was an anonymous egg and sperm donation.

[SDMermaid]

I've seen pics of MJ without his shirt on he is a bean pole not fit as his trainer said. Remember these are paid people talking about MJ. Wait until the death report comes out it should list his weight.


Lou, what kind of shape was Michael Jackson in?

LOU FERRIGNO, JACKSON'S PERSONAL TRAINER: Well, Michael was in great shape when I saw him a few months ago. He looked fine to me. And the reason why he hired me because the fact that I trained him 15 years ago and he wanted to increase his tone and flexibility and stamina because he had this huge tour coming up, and he wanted to be in the best possible physical shape.

COOPER: What kind of training regimen did he work on -- work with him on?

FERRIGNO: Well, I used the exercise ball. We have bands, and then we had a treadmill. And you know, I brought three-pound dumbbells one time to him, and he looked to me and he said, I don't (ph) want to build big muscles. So, he didn't want to handle three- pound dumbbells, so we stuck to the ball, to rubber bands and then to the treadmill.

I mean, he was a great guy, and he trusted me because he felt safe with me, and we had so much fun together. And it was a wonderful friendship.

COOPER: What -- there have been different reports about how much he weighed. Do you have a sense of how much he actually weighed when you were training him?

FERRIGNO: I don't know, because he came downstairs, he had a black tuxedo on, black pants, black shoes, black socks, and black shirt, and I worked with him on the ball exercising. I just moved his body around everything. He looked lean to me, and he looked fit.

He never showed any sign of any difficulty, and he was the best I've seen him compared to like 15 years ago.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0906/29/acd.02.html

[MoonHarvest]

So, so true The problem with this is they are still going to be around other children and I suspect they may be ridiculed and teased. :(

Oh you know they will hear of it. Makes me sad for them. I hope between them they have some strength. They've a long road ahead of them.

[emdragon]

Slightly off topic-

Since we have had no less than 7 Celebrity deaths in the month of June
David Carradine
Ed McMann
Farrah
Michael Jackson
Billy Mays
Gale Storm
Fred Travalena

Is anyone else holding their breath a bit waiting for midnight and June to be over? I'm afraid I'll get a tweet from Harry Levin that Patrick Swayze is gone.

[SDMermaid]

I never had a problem with Debbie giving up her rights she did him a favor. I don't have kids nor do I want them but I would have one for a friend or relative if they couldn't have one.


So does it change anyone's opinion on Debbie now that we are hearing she was only the surrogate and is not the biological mother?


If not then I have to ask again why is it wrong and vile for Debbie but it was fine and dandy for Michael to BUY children.

[MoonHarvest]

Slightly off topic-

Since we have had no less than 7 Celebrity deaths in the month of June
David Carradine
Ed McMann
Farrah
Michael Jackson
Billy Mays
Gale Storm
Fred Travalena

Is anyone else holding their breath a bit waiting for midnight and June to be over? I'm afraid I'll get a tweet from Harry Levin that Patrick Swayze is gone.


It's been a bit much. Even though we don't personally know these people you still feel sad about it.

[who_is_it]

They were minors at the time of their testimony and the statute of limitations is long passed for perjury charges.

Yes, like I replied to mason I didn't consider this aspect. Just the parents could get into trouble for making them testify under coercion if this happened.

[aproudmom]

never mind got volume
http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream3

[SDMermaid]

Yeah you only believe the postive stuff just wait until Grace comes out with her stories about how medicated MJ is I bet you will ignore those:rolleyes: Do you also believe MJ only had 2 nose jobs too?


COOPER: Did you see any sign of drug use? I mean, there are a lot of reports going around. I've talked to people who were close friends to him who said they, you know -- that he had come to them in past years for prescriptions for medication. Did you see any sign that he was taking medication?

FERRIGNO: Not at all. He looked fine to me. He had three kids at the house. I mean, the guy was great. He was alert. He was eager to train. He didn't take any long breaks. He came downstairs. And the time I spent with him was quality time.

And he did everything I told him what to do as far as, like, stretching, all the different exercises. And he seemed -- he looked fabulous.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0906/29/acd.02.html

[MoonHarvest]

never mind got volume
http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream3


Is P Diddy going to be there?:tonguewag:

[CRRJJ]

Are they going to bury him at Neverland as well?

I am having a slight tantrum just hearing the viewing will be there- can nothing Jackson do not parallel ELVIS?

Will Neverland be the Graceland of the west? :angry:

Meanwhile anyone know the time of Farrah's service? And since CNN is busy with the Apollo are they even going to cover it?

Not in a million years will Jackson ever be another Presley. And Neverland will never be another Graceland.

[mrsmcgoo]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/cops-interested-in-another-michael-jackson-doc/

MJ's dermatologist has apparently lawyered up. I have a feeling this man may have more to fear than anyone.

JMO

[aproudmom]

Slightly off topic-

Since we have had no less than 7 Celebrity deaths in the month of June
David Carradine
Ed McMann
Farrah
Michael Jackson
Billy Mays
Gale Storm
Fred Travalena

Is anyone else holding their breath a bit waiting for midnight and June to be over? I'm afraid I'll get a tweet from Harry Levin that Patrick Swayze is gone.

I don't even want to think about it..I have watched Farrah's story and all the charlies Angel shows this week and all the MJ stuff my eyes cant take to much more..Ed omg loved him may they all rest in peace..

[emdragon]

According to many psychic predictions (some of who predicted MJ's death) Elizabeth Taylor is a common one. :(

I told my husband on Thursday after hearing Liz was at the Hospital that the only thing that could upstage Micheal's death would be if Liz Taylor died. (I really was worried about her until she started twittering)

[who_is_it]

I don't trust TMZ. I heard tonight..again.... there was definitely no cause of death and wouldn't be for weeks.

Katherine knows what she is doing! :wub:

I experienced TMZ as comparatively reliable but they are out sensation, too. They spin the story which brings them most readers... -- they try to stick to facts but at the same time try to create the emotional effect of suspicion imo.

[emdragon]

Not in a million years will Jackson ever be another Presley. And Neverland will never be another Graceland.

Thank you- nice to know I'm not alone. lol

[who_is_it]

I told my husband on Thursday after hearing Liz was at the Hospital that the only thing that could upstage Micheal's death would be if Liz Taylor died. (I really was worried about her until she started twittering)

She is / was at the hospital???

[Scampi]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/cops-interested-in-another-michael-jackson-doc/

MJ's dermatologist has apparently lawyered up. I have a feeling this man may have more to fear than anyone.

JMO

I think LE is following the prescription trail, God help any physician over prescribing opiates to MJ, imo.

[MoonHarvest]

I think LE is following the prescription trail, God help any physician over prescribing opiates to MJ, imo.


You got that right.

[aproudmom]

Thank u !!! I didn't have volume either and just assumed it was my application. It works !!! :)

Al is was talking ..guess this is going on for some time..
did yours go off mine did..

[legalmania]

O my bad I thought he loved it and had to leave because people hated him and he could not work in the states even after he was found NG and then his money and debts..I think he left more over the media slamming him for so long..but could be wrong I was actually shocked to hear he would not want to be there but OK...LOL..

Elvis is buried at Graceland but not sure if MJ is actually going to be buried there they say no but guess we shall see..


I wonder if he wants to be buried in his home town Gary Indiana. Maybe they have a family plot there. It is away from the spotlight anyway.

[bkwits]

Thank you- nice to know I'm not alone. lol


Count me in. :smile:

[emdragon]

She is / was at the hospital???

The reported she was- not sure if it was ever true- you know how those first reports were.

[LILMANMAX]

Cops Target Needles in Jackson Search

"We now know what the LAPD was after when it got a search warrant for Michael Jackson's home.

The warrant was specifically targeted to find controlled substances and paraphernalia -- in particular needles."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/cops-targets-meds-in-jackson-search/

FGS
A day late and a buck short...:rolleyes:

Why FGS was a proper search for all of these items not completed Thursday? Somethings never change, like the LAPD. :rolleyes::angry:

[missinglink]

I'm just guessing here, but I think he may be buried in Westwood Village Memorial Park Cemetery in Westwood.

Or he may have wished to be cremated and his ashes spread in a more global way.

JMO.

[who_is_it]

Slightly off topic-

Since we have had no less than 7 Celebrity deaths in the month of June
David Carradine
Ed McMann
Farrah
Michael Jackson
Billy Mays
Gale Storm
Fred Travalena

Is anyone else holding their breath a bit waiting for midnight and June to be over? I'm afraid I'll get a tweet from Harry Levin that Patrick Swayze is gone.

After the death of ANS son I predicted that other people in this saga will die. Shortly after ANS died.

I hope this won't happen but I could imagine the doctor is at risk to commit suicide if crazy fans continue to threaten him and the Jackson family and media make him a scapegoat. Furthermore there will be ugly lawsuits... and I wouldn't wonder if someone dies by the stress and hate induced.

[norwood]

Thank you- nice to know I'm not alone. lol
You are not alone. There would be no Michael Jackson if not for Elvis, he remains the King.

[SDMermaid]

Yeah and he also married his daughter lol! I always thought their marriage was an arrangement and just to add to his collection of stuff he bought. No matter what Lisa thinks she was used by MJ they never even lived together in the 2 yrs they were "married"

Are they going to bury him at Neverland as well?

I am having a slight tantrum just hearing the viewing will be there- can nothing Jackson do not parallel ELVIS?

Will Neverland be the Graceland of the west? :angry:

Meanwhile anyone know the time of Farrah's service? And since CNN is busy with the Apollo are they even going to cover it?

[emdragon]

I think LE is following the prescription trail, God help any physician over prescribing opiates to MJ, imo.

Well before they arrest that Dr I would like to have him write me a script for Versed! That is some seriously good stuff- but I really thought it was only used for surgery or other medical procedures not prescribed for home use.

[GIGI4256]

I never had a problem with Debbie giving up her rights she did him a favor. I don't have kids nor do I want them but I would have one for a friend or relative if they couldn't have one.

I have no problem with Debbie not wanting the children. At least she did something good for someone. If she never wanted children, that's her business and people need to stop putting her down because of it. JMO of course

[SDMermaid]

So it's going to be another James Brown funeral:scared: That was too creepy to see him laying in the coffin on TV.


CNN is reporting that a public viewing is planned for Friday at Neverland and that a private memorial for the family is planned for Sunday.

No information on where MJ will be buried.

I bet we see fans lining the route from LA to the Santa Barbara hills and Neverland. I think this is an excellent choice because the Jackson family can control security very well there.

[LILMANMAX]

After the death of ANS son I predicted that other people in this saga will die. Shortly after ANS died.

I hope this won't happen but I could imagine the doctor is at risk to commit suicide if crazy fans continue to threaten him and the Jackson family and media make him a scapegoat. Furthermore there will be ugly lawsuits... and I wouldn't wonder if someone dies by the stress and hate induced.


This is how I felt about Michael after the trial. I'm surprised he lasted this long after the ridicule he endured during his life.
RIP Michael :rose:

Besides this DR is anything but a scapegoat. JMO

[aproudmom]

I think LE is following the prescription trail, God help any physician over prescribing opiates to MJ, imo.

that is one reason I have not bashed the 1 doctor I think we will see alot of doctors being looked at.

[CinderL.]

I didn't follow the trial at the time, and I have been reading and reading about everything now, and have been going back and forth about how I feel about all of it. Not to rehash all of that now, I know a lot of you were here during all of it. But, I just read that piece in Vanity Fair....and I am again leaning again toward there was something not right with MJ. :confused::confused:

[who_is_it]

That's not true. MJ said it no longer felt like home and he never wanted to set foot in it again. Then he left the country.

<snipped>


A horrific scenario he'll be burried at Neverland -- the place where Bashir and the AV family stayed before they started to destroy his life. Yes, he never returned to Neverland as far as I know.

[CinderL.]

Fox just brought up a good point. Sat. is 4th of July. Can you imagine the traffic going up to Santa Barbara???:ohmy::ohmy:

[SDMermaid]

ITA He would!
:lol:

IMO If Joe had his way...he'd load the body on the back of a trailer and take it on tour.

[aproudmom]

After the death of ANS son I predicted that other people in this saga will die. Shortly after ANS died.

I hope this won't happen but I could imagine the doctor is at risk to commit suicide if crazy fans continue to threaten him and the Jackson family and media make him a scapegoat. Furthermore there will be ugly lawsuits... and I wouldn't wonder if someone dies by the stress and hate induced.

I always thought ANS died of a broken heart from losing her son I know that is not on the DC but I knew she would never be able to go on even for her sweet little girl after Daniels death all the stress and money problems

and as far as this Doctor I said 3 days ago if the family would just ask the fans to wait before passing judgment it would help this doctor but they want to blame someone it is normal but I do feel for him

[who_is_it]

This is how I felt about Michael after the trial. I'm surprised he lasted this long after the ridicule he endured during his life.
RIP Michael :rose:

Besides this DR is anything but a scapegoat. JMO

I also often wondered how someone could bear so much pain induced by the media.

I take solace in this:

"You would think that, on the one hand, the world has kind of beaten him up, and you could forgive him for having some trepidation and fear. But he didn't have any of that," says Holley. 'Words fail to describe what people would have seen with the tour. I couldn't even imagine until last week when it became physically apparent [on the set]. He was ready to show the world, and I so wish there could have been just one concert so the world would have seen.'

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

Like his vocal trainer I would have wished he survived at least one concert to feel the love of the audience.

[KaraokeDiva]

Hey Kara :)

No GA was 15 - the trial ended in 2005 so he would be 18.

Has it really been that long? And why did I think the most recent accuser was only 11 at the time of the alleged molestation?

[SDMermaid]

ITA I think MJ wanted to be as big as Elvis and even married his daughter just to have a part of Elvis with him.

Because Jackson always wanted to be Elvis and he did things in his life to insure it- just listen to Lisa Marie when she said he knew he would die like Elvis.
Graceland-----Neverland no similarities at all right?

It has always annoyed me- always thought "Michael be original"
Michael Jackson is not and never was Elvis.

And sadly for his children no one in the Jackson camp is Priscilla- that woman grew a fortune and made sure her daughter would always be taken care of and that Elvis would always be remembered well.

I am afraid the Jackson's will never find one person who can agree on how things will be done- and no not Janet either. I believe if Janet was the tower of strength many think she is she would have the children not Kathrine.

[who_is_it]

I always thought ANS died of a broken heart from losing her son I know that is not on the DC but I knew she would never be able to go on even for her sweet little girl after Daniels death all the stress and money problems

and as far as this Doctor I said 3 days ago if the family would just ask the fans to wait before passing judgment it would help this doctor but they want to blame someone it is normal but I do feel for him

I had several scenarios: Like you I thought she could die from a broken heart, stress induced by LB's lawsuits and media circus and drugs. I also thought of the possibility HKS would commit suicide.

Hope nothing similar bad happens after the death of Michael.

[boo]

That's not true. MJ said it no longer felt like home and he never wanted to set foot in it again. Then he left the country.

Since when can a person be buried in their own backyard??? Are they just going to drag his body there for a memorial/viewing ???:confused:

This is what I don't get. MJ has no fond memories of Neverland and wanted to leave there and never look back. Neverland was tarnished in Michael's eyes in 1993 and if this "father" proceeds with these plans, he is a horrible man. JMO

[SDMermaid]

That tells me that he will be buried at Neverland because if he wrote it in 2002 he liked it there and they will have to do as the will says. How ironic it is that his final resting place with be the place he never wanted to go back too:ohmy:


There is a will and it has been filed with the court already. Check the links thread.

[aproudmom]

I shut all the way down and went back to the beginning off CNN Live and got it back

I got it now just had to refresh it they are doing it until 8 tonight but will have a moment of silence at the TOD..they are letting 600 in at one time so the 2nd groups will be coming in soon...

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream2
A GLOVE AND HAT AND GLASSES on a chair did you see it:crying:

[CinderL.]

A public viewing....:ohmy:

[SDMermaid]

Isn't Versed the drug that makes you forget what happened during surgery?

Well before they arrest that Dr I would like to have him write me a script for Versed! That is some seriously good stuff- but I really thought it was only used for surgery or other medical procedures not prescribed for home use.

[vonna]

This is what I don't get. MJ has no fond memories of Neverland and wanted to leave there and never look back. Neverland was tarnished in Michael's eyes in 1993 and if this "father" proceeds with these plans, he is a horrible man. JMO

That would probably be the least of the man's transgressions.

[CinderL.]

So in addition to Diane Dimond's setting out to ruin Michael Jackson, so did Martin Bashir? And so I imagine did Maureen Orth among other reporters?

They wanted to ruin him and so they fabricated all these horrible stories? They got witnesses to lie? They told Jordy about the mark on Jackson's genitals so he could describe and draw it accurately?

And btw, for those who said there were lots of innocent ways for Jordy to have seen it--- not true. Because it was on the underside of his penis it wasn't visible unless the penis were erect.

If you would like more information and solid facts about Michael Jackson and his predilection for sleeping with little boys, may I recommend the articles by Maureen Orth in Vanity Fair. VF has assembled them all and you can read them in their entirety online.
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2009/06/michael-jackson-is-gone-but-the-sad-facts-remain.html

I just finished reading that. Puts thing in a different light doesn't it. Why would these people be out to destroy MJ.? I don't get that.

[SDMermaid]

MJ hasn't been right since 1986 and I'm mad he brought kids in his mess of a life:thumbdown: Selfish if you ask me!


I didn't follow the trial at the time, and I have been reading and reading about everything now, and have been going back and forth about how I feel about all of it. Not to rehash all of that now, I know a lot of you were here during all of it. But, I just read that piece in Vanity Fair....and I am again leaning again toward there was something not right with MJ. :confused::confused:

[aproudmom]

Not be snarky or anything- but I can imagine the Jackson family will ask the country to postpone the 4th so that it doesn't get in the way of the Michael worship.

ok i was being snarky but it is something I could honestly see Joe wanting.

I think they are more worried with the 2 lane road going into Neverland the residence have concerns with traffic..but don't think that matters just alot of traffic control I guess...U SNARKY THING YOU just admit it:tonguewag:

[SDMermaid]

I bet if he is buried there he will haunt the place:scared:


A horrific scenario he'll be burried at Neverland -- the place where Bashir and the AV family stayed before they started to destroy his life. Yes, he never returned to Neverland as far as I know.

[Great Dane]

I don't approve of everything Sharpton has done however if it weren't for him in the African American community many things would be swept under the carpet. JMO

Everything isn't always a black or white thing....

While I get the importance of MJ as a black entertainer...for myself, he was just an excellent musician, his creativity was endless, his dance skills and willingness to bring awareness to issue such as hunger, needy children etc. are what made him so powerful to me...I was 8 and collecting those stickers in packs and rushing home to stick them all over my room....lol

And I didn't view him as the best "black" musician, just as a musician...when I listen to the radio, I don't do you really care what color the person is that is singing the song....MANY people thought Madonna was a black artist before seeing her in video's....but, I don't think her race has much to do with her success....

Are you saying if MJ would have been equally as talented and white, it would have lessened his value as a musician for you?

[kellabeck]

That tells me that he will be buried at Neverland because if he wrote it in 2002 he liked it there and they will have to do as the will says. How ironic it is that his final resting place with be the place he never wanted to go back too:ohmy:

I don't believe he owned it anymore. So I can't imagine that happening. Although if someone can make a buck off it, they will try.

And I don't blame a rust belt town like Gary trying to get ahold of Jackson's body. The mayor's thinking of the jobs and tourism it might generate and he WAS from Gary.

This story has legs and will go on and on-- the investigations, the lawsuits, the custody, the will, the debts, the videos, more albums, more dirt, lots more stories coming out, I predict. This is a cottage industry.

[CinderL.]

MJ hasn't been right since 1986 and I'm mad he brought kids in his mess of a life:thumbdown: Selfish if you ask me!

Well, I can sure see both sides of the whole mess. Peter Pan, childlike guy that loved children, and felt more comfortable with the innocence of them, or the pedofile, who built a place to be alone with kids. Either way, a prudent person would have stopped the practice of being surrounded by children after the first allegations. What was he thinking???

[SDMermaid]

They city of Gary is just thinking $$$ that will come into their city if MJ is buried there.

The singer's hometown of Gary, Indiana, is asking the family to have him buried there, according to the mayor's spokeswoman.

Gary Mayor Rudy Clay has been in contact with the Jackson family hoping to make that happen, spokeswoman Lalosa Burns said Tuesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/30/michael.jackson/index.html?eref=rss_mostpopular

[MoonHarvest]

MJ hasn't been right since 1986 and I'm mad he brought kids in his mess of a life:thumbdown: Selfish if you ask me!


Sadly, all too many people do just that everyday.

[SDMermaid]

I think he was making a joke. MJ and Leno didn't hangout together


One of the most noticeable figures remaining silent is Jay Leno. Although he is temporarily off the air, Leno has not even issued a statement about his friend Jackson. This is unusual from Leno who on his last night hosting the Tonight Show thanked "all who made his tenure a successful one - especially Michael Jackson."


http://www.examiner.com/x-11394-Spiritual-Pathways-Examiner~y2009m6d30-Michael-Jacksons-death-A-time-for-support-and-reflection-video

[mrsmcgoo]

I am very puzzled that the coroner got anything from MJ's house, as reported. I would think that the delay would have enabled the hanger ons to do a clean up and keep things clean, to protect MJ's image at least in death.

This leads me to think that perhaps they had other things to take care of that would have been far more damaging than the drugs to clean up?


JMO

[CinderL.]

She says "she was just a vessel" and she not only "never expects to see the kids again", she "does not want too".
I heard that story was a lie, and that she never said that. Don't know.

[aproudmom]

The singer's hometown of Gary, Indiana, is asking the family to have him buried there, according to the mayor's spokeswoman.

Gary Mayor Rudy Clay has been in contact with the Jackson family hoping to make that happen, spokeswoman Lalosa Burns said Tuesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/30/michael.jackson/index.html?eref=rss_mostpopular

yeah they have been wanting something there since the day he died..Gary will never be the next Graceland as the Mayor wanted early on..actually it is a very sad place at this time little Jada was found in cased in cement a few days ago and the home of MJ standing empty..JMO

[kellabeck]

There's a link here somewhere where Bashir says his documentary put MJ in a bad light but he NEVER believed MJ did anything criminal.

Some journalists do anything for a buck. JMO

THE ANATOMY OF A SCAM
PART III

http://surftofind.com/seminal3

They were all scammers, then? All the many little boys he bought and the parents he bought off? Everyone is lying.

And still the little boy in the trial never did sue.

And here's another question for you: if that little boy had been lying and fabricating, why not create a more elaborate story? I mean, if you're gonna lie, why not tell a really lurid one?

After the video of that boy's interview with police was played in court, people present found it extremely compelling. Very believable.

And again I repeat my question which remains unresponded to: If the sleepovers were innocent, then when his fortune, reputation and very freedom were threatened, why not stop?

[CinderL.]

I think he was making a joke. MJ and Leno didn't hangout together

Yes, because he made tons of jokes about MJ.

[aproudmom]

SOMEONE ask about Farrah here is a link to go to...video to the side I am not sure Farrah wanted a big public thing alot are saying she has got no coverage because of MJ maybe in some ways but I am sure her funeral was to be very private by her wishes anyway..

http://cbs2.com/local/Farrah.Fawcett.Died.2.1065103.html

[emdragon]

Isn't Versed the drug that makes you forget what happened during surgery?

Yeah it is- and is really fun lol

but I read it was one of the drugs they found during the trial- and I didn't think it would be a drug used at home....


Guess they could have believed it was used on the victim/s but I imagine it was for recreational use.

[boo]

No kidding, Vonna. If there was ever a doubt in MJ's eyes as to whether or not daddy loved him, he need look no further than today.

Joe Jackson makes me sick and always has. I went to school with the Jacksons, although Michael was/is a few years older than me and I was born in Encino Hospital and although I have moved out of the valley, my mother is still there (on Hayvenhurst no less). My 8 year old and I walked up to his parents house on Friday and I saw it then. The black suits waving people in, Joe in the driveway acting like it was another day in the life and then I watched the BETs and that sealed it for me.

Cal Prep in Encino (our school is long gone now) was a tiny little school and with tiny little schools come big family secrets. Joe is evil in my opinion.

I believe MJ would never want to step on that Neverland property ever again, let alone be memorialized or "celebrated" there.

[SDMermaid]

At least she's telling the truth that she was just a vessel if she isn't the bio mom not like the liar MJ is saying that they are his bio kids.


She says "she was just a vessel" and she not only "never expects to see the kids again", she "does not want too".

[CinderL.]

This is an interesting thing I heard today. A producer or someone was being interviewed and said that the Jackson's came to him when Michael was 13 and wanted him to spruce up their act. Different dances, etc. So this guy puts out a notice for a dance teacher, and who turns up but, Paula Abdul. She was 18 at the time. He said that Paula taught MJ the moonwalk. :ohmy:

[who_is_it]

question:

The lawyer of Dr Murray said -- contradicting to Murray's original statement -- Michael Jackson still had a pulse after the emergency had arrived.

Is there any source (for example police, hospital) which confirmed he still had a pulse?

[kellabeck]

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=6247930

Link to abcnews article about the deed to Neverland.

Oh, I can see it now! $$$$$$ The company turns Neverland into Graceland with a shrine to Michael Jackson for fans to visit from around the world.

[SDMermaid]

He wasn't thinking he paid people to think for him he just did want he wanted because he had the money to get out of trouble he got himself in.


Well, I can sure see both sides of the whole mess. Peter Pan, childlike guy that loved children, and felt more comfortable with the innocence of them, or the pedofile, who built a place to be alone with kids. Either way, a prudent person would have stopped the practice of being surrounded by children after the first allegations. What was he thinking???

[MoonHarvest]

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=6247930

Link to abcnews article about the deed to Neverland.

Oh, I can see it now! $$$$$$ The company turns Neverland into Graceland with a shrine to Michael Jackson for fans to visit from around the world.

Imo, the money vultures are circling for sure.

[kellabeck]

This is an interesting thing I heard today. A producer or someone was being interviewed and said that the Jackson's came to him when Michael was 13 and wanted him to spruce up their act. Different dances, etc. So this guy puts out a notice for a dance teacher, and who turns up but, Paula Abdul. She was 18 at the time. He said that Paula taught MJ the moonwalk. :ohmy:

Paula Abdul was born in 1962, 4 yrs after Jackson, according to Wikipedia.

[SDMermaid]

I know it makes me sick:angry:


Sadly, all too many people do just that everyday.

[MoonHarvest]

I know it makes me sick:angry:

Me too.

I just want those kids to grow up well and healthy. Hope there is a darned good Judge assigned to them.

Deepak Chopra seems balanced. Wish he could lend a hand to them some how.

[missinglink]

Yeah it is- and is really fun lol

but I read it was one of the drugs they found during the trial- and I didn't think it would be a drug used at home....


Guess they could have believed it was used on the victim/s but I imagine it was for recreational use.

Versed is a wonderful drug used for pre-surgury, surgery, etc.

I just googled it and oral versed can be used for insomnia. It's short acting and is used to get to sleep, but not good for staying asleep.

I also read where they offer intraveneous versed to some death row inmates shortly before execution. I learn something every day! :biggrin:

[bkwits]

Well, I can sure see both sides of the whole mess. Peter Pan, childlike guy that loved children, and felt more comfortable with the innocence of them, or the pedofile, who built a place to be alone with kids. Either way, a prudent person would have stopped the practice of being surrounded by children after the first allegations. What was he thinking???


Unfortunately, I have trouble seeing the positive side that you mentioned.It seems like MJ had a compulsion to be around children, like most pedophiles do. Think about it, a pedophile does not usually stop seeking ways to be with children even after they are convicted and serve time for an offense against a child. IINM, the recidivism rate is the highest of all types of crimes.

Now, it was not proven in a court of law that MJ is a pedophile, but if it walks like a duck.....etc.

IMO