Michael Jackson Tues 6/30

[sunstar]

It looks like it is just blacked out to me not blank. :confused:

The line for the mother has "-- -- --" in it but the blacked out part is where the signatures would be.

[emdragon]

above the blacked out line is the line for MOTHER and it is blank just - - - in the different boxes.

(How is "blanket" a II? The oldest child is simply Michael and he is Prince.)

[sunstar]

I deleted my post when I realized my error. LOL

Sorry I was too quick in answering you! :wink:

[CinderL.]

Well -- not sure about that. The ones that are married have been married a long time and to the same person and they all have children. Never read anything negative about their children or them really. The only ones that have been controversial have been MJ and JJ. :confused:

I don't know....this quoted from the Vanity Fair article.

"As dysfunctional families go, it's hard to top the Jacksons. Katherine Jackson, the matriarch, once filed a petition for divorce and withdrew it, but papers found a few years ago in a warehouse where Jackson-family memorabilia had been stored revealed that she and three of her children had had a six-figure settlement against them for beating up one of the girlfriends of her husband, Joseph Jackson. In addition to his children by Katherine, Joseph has an illegitimate daughter. Rebbie, the eldest of the nine children, reportedly once pressed charges against her father for sexually molesting her when she was 12. Jackie, the eldest son, once suffered a broken leg when his first wife ran over him with a car after having caught him in bed with the singer Paula Abdul. Jermaine, a convert to Islam, has a girlfriend and two wives, one of whom, Alejandra, is in the process of divorcing him. She has one child, Jermajesty, with Jermaine and two with Jermaine's brother Randy, to whom she was engaged before Jermaine stole her away. In 1994 brother Tito's ex-wife drowned in a swimming pool, and her older lover was convicted of murdering her. At the 2004 Super Bowl, Janet caused a nationwide scandal with her "wardrobe malfunction." In 1989, La Toya left home, married her manager, wrote a tell-all book about the family, then returned to the fold, recanted, and accused her husband of beating her. Police recently questioned at least one of Michael Jackson's nephews about his relationship with his uncle."

[aproudmom]

Can Janet take custody of them?

I would think so or Katherine could put it in her will gosh hate to even say that..she does look very good for almost 80..what is Janet doing and living Vegas? they always seemed so very close I lost it when she spoke at the BET awards

[4Life]

I would think so or Katherine could put it in her will gosh hate to even say that..she does look very good for almost 80..what is Janet doing and living Vegas? they always seemed so very close I lost it when she spoke at the BET awards

Last I heard she is filming a new movie and making a new cd

[vonna]

I don't buy the vitiligo story either. Nope, way too convenient, especially when you add in the rest of the things he did to either alter his appearance and then coincidentally have caucasian children. (And yes, I absolutely believe these children are caucasian).

Did you ever hear anything as ridiculous as his answer when asked if he was the sperm donor of his children as they appeared Caucasian/white?? He replied that was why they were called "colored people" because they came in all colors. GMAB. Besides - how could one give credence to anything he said when he claimed to have only two facial surgeries?! Someone should have told him that if you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.

[CinderL.]

:lol::lol:

I just read this to DH, he thought just HIS family was screwed up! LOL!:lol:
I'm telling you they are all messed up.

[vonna]

:lol:
I'm telling you they are all messed up.

They have raised dysfunction to new heights.

[GentleBreeze]

Did you ever hear anything as ridiculous as his answer when asked if he was the sperm donor of his children as they appeared Caucasian/white?? He replied that was why they were called "colored people" because they came in all colors. GMAB. Besides - how could one give credence to anything he said when he claimed to have only two facial surgeries?! Someone should have told him that if you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.

I always felt it highly offensive that anyone would think it was their business how many surgeries he had.

I have never seen someone just come up to someone and ask such an assign question that was none of their business anyway.:mad:

imo

[CinderL.]

They have raised dysfunction to new heights.
Ya think. :laugh:

[CinderL.]

IMO: Possible family members MJs children can live with as an alternate if necessary:

Tito – Widower – 3 children
Rebbie – Married 40 years to her HS sweetheart – 3 children
Marlon – Married to same woman for 25 years – 3 children
Janet Jackson – Single – no children

I vote for Rebbie, or Marlon.

[aproudmom]

I'm sure she could apply through the courts if she wants to. I believe it would be up to a family court judge to determine who is the best person to raise them. The judge might even ask the children or have a psychologist talk to them, etc. MOO

ITA..this is what usually happens or at least at a certain age they ask the child/children who they would wish to be with. I know here it is 13 not sure if it is just our judge or what..but we sure don't have any Pop Icons around here either so I am sure it is alot different

[CinderL.]

I always felt it highly offensive that anyone would think it was their business how many surgeries he had.

I have never seen someone just come up to someone and ask such an assign question that was none of their business anyway.:mad:

imo

Do you think an interviewer that was given access, no holes bared, wouldn't ask MJ how many surgeries he has had? He went from a normal, cute black child, to a weird looking white man. I am so sorry, but when he did Thriller and that period in his life he was so good looking. The change was certainly noticeable.

[CinderL.]

I agree....same thing with reporters grilling him about the biological parentage of his children. That's just rude and uncalled for.

Frankly, none of it is anybody's business, imo.

Now, that I agree with.

[VC2]

VC..I am not trying to argee with you..only wish to correct your mis-understanding of auto-immune disease..It is not the disease that creates a problem with fighting infections..but the treatments for those diseases that lower your immune system..I happen to know this..because I work with these people daily..but here is a link which describes what I mean..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoimmune_disease

snippet~~

Autoimmune diseases arise from an overactive immune response of the body against substances and tissues normally present in the body. In other words, the body really attacks its own cells.


LMS

you are right. But ppl with auto immune diseases have less good health than those without. When your body is attacking itself, an external disease is going to be a problem as well i think? I am better with immune suppression diseases, almost every one of my cats has one or more from FIV+ to feline herpes to chronic respiratory disease. (only one has FIV but a recent arrival is getting tested thursday, something is wrong and i suspect its another chronic issue but she came from 200 km away and i am not aware of what is a norm in that area for feral or barn cat diseases)

I really really hate immune system diseases be them auto like vitiligo and lupus or immune suppressing such as hiv and others. If you are lucky and are detected early, cancer can be excised and treated. same with other bad diseases, but immune diseases the sufferers can live with for 50 years and always have health issues

Just seems so darn unfair for ppl

[sunstar]

I vote for Rebbie, or Marlon.

I would too! :smile:

[Citygirl]

I don't know....this quoted from the Vanity Fair article.

"As dysfunctional families go, it's hard to top the Jacksons. Katherine Jackson, the matriarch, once filed a petition for divorce and withdrew it, but papers found a few years ago in a warehouse where Jackson-family memorabilia had been stored revealed that she and three of her children had had a six-figure settlement against them for beating up one of the girlfriends of her husband, Joseph Jackson. In addition to his children by Katherine, Joseph has an illegitimate daughter. Rebbie, the eldest of the nine children, reportedly once pressed charges against her father for sexually molesting her when she was 12. Jackie, the eldest son, once suffered a broken leg when his first wife ran over him with a car after having caught him in bed with the singer Paula Abdul. Jermaine, a convert to Islam, has a girlfriend and two wives, one of whom, Alejandra, is in the process of divorcing him. She has one child, Jermajesty, with Jermaine and two with Jermaine's brother Randy, to whom she was engaged before Jermaine stole her away. In 1994 brother Tito's ex-wife drowned in a swimming pool, and her older lover was convicted of murdering her. At the 2004 Super Bowl, Janet caused a nationwide scandal with her "wardrobe malfunction." In 1989, La Toya left home, married her manager, wrote a tell-all book about the family, then returned to the fold, recanted, and accused her husband of beating her. Police recently questioned at least one of Michael Jackson's nephews about his relationship with his uncle."


I remember when a lot of this happened..it made the magazines of course but the "media" was not what it is now..and the Jackson family were not that important to have a big expose about all of it..

[CinderL.]

I remember when a lot of this happened..it made the magazines of course but the "media" was not what it is now..and the Jackson family were not that important to have a big expose about all of it..

Oh boy, that is the truth. The media would be all over this stuff now. YIkes.

[VC2]

Well, Al Sharpton is sure making the whole thing an African American issue. Big surprise. Saying MJ made it possible for AA's to go to the for front. Is he forgetting all of those before MJ.? Maybe even Martin L. King. Geez.

Listened to a cbs producer (think it was cbs) when his first video was release. He had to fight with MTV because at the time they refused to play any black artists. In fact he said he threatened them, said that if they did refuse to play MJ's he would go public with their letters and what they told him, which was bluntly they did not play black artists there was no audience for them etc etc.

He made it possible for every AA artist after him to get the exposure in the mainstream.

He really did break barriers, more than just one.

[sunstar]

ITA..this is what usually happens or at least at a certain age they ask the child/children who they would wish to be with. I know here it is 13 not sure if it is just our judge or what..but we sure don't have any Pop Icons around here either so I am sure it is alot different

I think it depends on circumstances and the ages of the children, but in this case I think they're all old enough to have some input if it came to that. I really think they should stay in the family ~ except for being with MJ's father. MOO

[Unperson1984]

I'm sure she can.


Children are not property and cannot be "willed" to someone.

[Citygirl]

I vote for Rebbie, or Marlon.


You realize Rebbie is the illegitimate daughter of Joe..and not related to Michael's mother don't you? Why should MJ's children go to the daughter of the father MJ could hardly abide?

After reading so many of these posters opinions as to who should "get" MJ's children..
I'm glad a learned judge will have that job.

[aproudmom]

IMO: Possible family members MJs children can live with as an alternate if necessary:

Tito – Widower – 3 children
Rebbie – Married 40 years to her HS sweetheart – 3 children
Marlon – Married to same woman for 25 years – 3 children
Janet Jackson – Single – no children

thanks I always wondered what about Latoya does she have kids..not that I think she needs custody..just wondering I have never heard to much about the boys other than Tito and umm omg my brain is off tonight..the other son

[boo]

I agree....same thing with reporters grilling him about the biological parentage of his children. That's just rude and uncalled for.

Frankly, none of it is anybody's business, imo.

I would have had much more respect for him if he would have told them that instead of flat out lying.

[boo]

Did you ever hear anything as ridiculous as his answer when asked if he was the sperm donor of his children as they appeared Caucasian/white?? He replied that was why they were called "colored people" because they came in all colors. GMAB. Besides - how could one give credence to anything he said when he claimed to have only two facial surgeries?! Someone should have told him that if you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.

That was the interview that I was talking about, Vonna! He contradicted (um lied) so many things that have since been proven otherwise. Why lie?

[truthdiscern]

Well -- not sure about that. The ones that are married have been married a long time and to the same person and they all have children. Never read anything negative about their children or them really. The only ones that have been controversial have been MJ and JJ. :confused:
Hi Athena
I came back to say hello and share a moment in honor of MJ..I was here during the MJ trials..'truthdiscerner'...I haven't been back since or before for that matter..something about Sneddons' vileness on national tv made me question the charges..I started to snoop and found the court tv message boards..I learned so much and remember the process, the tedious unfolding of facts, the sham, your daily updates..the divisions in the forum, the hatred..and the day when MJ was acquitted I was here with many of you..and on my knees thanking God...what a day...I never forgot that entire experience which I shared with strangers ..but it was a moment...I thought of that experience immediately upon hearing of his death...I thought we were fierce and determined and logical...and sane...I saw Messereau on tv the other evening..his description of MJ is what I came away from here knowing deep in my heart..I just wanted say to those of you who had that experience here with me....that I'm glad we persevered...and, thanks...

[aproudmom]

You realize Rebbie is the illegitimate daughter of Joe..and not related to Michael's mother don't you? Why should MJ's children go to the daughter of the father MJ could hardly abide?

After reading so many of these posters opinions as to who should "get" MJ's children..
I'm glad a learned judge will have that job.

did not know that either learning more and more

[4Life]

Children are not property and cannot be "willed" to someone.

In your will you can state who you want to have guardianship over the children

[4Life]

Yep - Janet was at the pre-production of the new Tyler Perry's movie when she got the word about MJ.

Thank you, could not remember whose movie

[VC2]

IMO: Possible family members MJs children can live with as an alternate if necessary:

Tito – Widower – 3 children
Rebbie – Married 40 years to her HS sweetheart – 3 children
Marlon – Married to same woman for 25 years – 3 children
Janet Jackson – Single – no children

I vote for Janet.

two reasons. Rebbie who would be my either choice, deliberately chooses to live a non celeb life which is fine but i don't think MJ's kids will ever be able to live without strong protection from celeb paparazzi etc and it sounds like at least one has a love to sing/dance/perform. If its his own wish then Rebbie would not be a great choice imo.

Janet has always seemed bright, together and she knows celebrity inside and out. She would be able to protect from the worst of it, see any possible problems arising and yet still allow them to have a normal life as do many celebs kids - there are schools they all go to etc etc. single or married doesn't make a difference to me, its more whose kids they are and what sort of microscope they will be under. Janet has handled fame well, she broke away from her families control and was close to MJ.

jmo

eta and if Grace is brought back as nanny, it won't interfere with her own career, or be a big change for the kids apart from the obvious loss of their dad

[Unperson1984]

In your will you can state who you want to have guardianship over the children

Yes, but it is still up to the Court. The Court will give great consideration to the decedent's wishes, but is not bound by those wishes.

[aproudmom]

Hi Athena
I came back to say hello and share a moment in honor of MJ..I was here during the MJ trials..'truthdiscerner'...I haven't been back since or before for that matter..something about Sneddons' vileness on national tv made me question the charges..I started to snoop and found the court tv message boards..I learned so much and remember the process, the tedious unfolding of facts, the sham, your daily updates..the divisions in the forum, the hatred..and the day when MJ was acquitted I was here with many of you..and on my knees thanking God...what a day...I never forgot that entire experience which I shared with strangers ..but it was a moment...I thought of that experience immediately upon hearing of his death...I thought we were fierce and determined and logical...and sane...I saw Messereau on tv the other evening..his description of MJ is what I came away from here knowing deep in my heart..I just wanted say to those of you who had that experience here with me....that I'm glad we persevered...and, thanks...

I was not on here then but I had to say what a sweet post,....very sweet..

[vonna]

I agree....same thing with reporters grilling him about the biological parentage of his children. That's just rude and uncalled for.

Frankly, none of it is anybody's business, imo.

You miss the point. It is irrelevent if the question was rude or inappropriate. It was asked and he chose to give that absurd answer.

[CinderL.]

Listened to a cbs producer (think it was cbs) when his first video was release. He had to fight with MTV because at the time they refused to play any black artists. In fact he said he threatened them, said that if they did refuse to play MJ's he would go public with their letters and what they told him, which was bluntly they did not play black artists there was no audience for them etc etc.

He made it possible for every AA artist after him to get the exposure in the mainstream.

He really did break barriers, more than just one.

What about Sammie Davis, Diana Ross, Smokie Robinson, Gladis Knight, The four Tops, All of those people were in the mainstream with Ed Sullivan, and the dance shows.

[4Life]

Yes I did know that but don't see how that would affect her capability of children.

I still hope Katherine gets the children but bring Grace to live with them. Grace has been a stable person in their lives.

I think Katherine or Janet shoudl have them, with Grace there also. I don't think any one of them would use the children for $$$$$. Joe on the other hand..well..I 'll leave it at that

[aproudmom]

Yes I did know that but don't see how that would affect her capability of children.

I still hope Katherine gets the children but bring Grace to live with them. Grace has been a stable person in their lives.

ITA and you have your opinion does not mean yours or my or anyone's opinion will be the one a Judge picks...I really see no problem with someone saying who they think the children should be with..or maybe I am wrong and this turned into a courtroom and not a forum...

I do not know as much as alot of you who have followed MJ and his family for years but I am learning alot so thanks to all...I just want the kids to be happy and MJ loved his mother very much we all know that we have all heard how wonderful Grace is and the kids love her I think at this point it would be nice to see them both care for the kids and all their aunts and uncles just surround them with love during this time..

[4Life]

What about Sammie Davis, Diana Ross, Smokie Robinson, Gladis Knight, The four Tops, All of those people were in the mainstream with Ed Sullivan, and the dance shows.

I think the poster is talking about MTV as the mainstream. Back in the 80's MTV was huge. Artists record sales soared if they got a video on MTV. Once MJ got on MTV, the others follwed. I think Diana Ross started to have videos on MTV right after MJ did

[Ice Cycle]

You realize Rebbie is the illegitimate daughter of Joe..and not related to Michael's mother don't you? Why should MJ's children go to the daughter of the father MJ could hardly abide?

After reading so many of these posters opinions as to who should "get" MJ's children..
I'm glad a learned judge will have that job.

Not according to Wikipedia, Rebbie is their's and the first born. Joh'Vonnie is the daughter with the other person, born in 1974.
See below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_family


Together Joseph and Katherine had ten children. Son Brandon died at birth. The other nine grew up to become professional musicians:

Maureen Reilette "Rebbie" Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebbie_Jackson) (born May 29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_29), 1950 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950))
Sigmund Esco "Jackie" Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Jackson) (born May 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_4), 1951 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951))
Toriano Adaryll "Tito" Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito_Jackson) (born October 15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_15), 1953 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953))
Jermaine LaJaune Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jermaine_Jackson) (born December 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_11), 1954 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954))
La Toya Yvonne Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Toya_Jackson) (born May 29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_29), 1956 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956))
Marlon David Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlon_Jackson) (born March 12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_12), 1957 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957))
Brandon Jackson (born March 12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_12), 1957 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957) - died at birth)
Michael Joseph Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson) (August 29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_29), 1958 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958) – June 25 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_25), 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009))
Steven Randall "Randy" Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Jackson_(musician)) (born October 29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_29), 1961 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961))
Janet Damita Jo Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Jackson) (born May 16 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_16), 1966 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966))
Joseph had an affair with a woman named Cheryl Terrell, which produced a daughter:[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_family#cite_note-4)

Joh'Vonnie Jackson (born 1974), a flight attendant.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_family#cite_note-5)

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jackson_family&action=edit&section=3)] Third generation


Rebbie Jackson and Nathaniel Brown have three children:

Stacee Brown (b. 1971) - Stacee is a singer-songwriter who often records with her younger sister; her son London Blue was born in 2005.
Yashi Brown (b. 1977) - Yashi is a singer-songwriter who often records with her older sister.
Austin "Auggie" Brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Brown_(singer)) (b. 1985) - Auggie is a singer-songwriter and musician.


Jackie Jackson and Enid Spann had two children

Sigmund Esco "Siggy" Jackson, Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DealZ) (b. 1977) - "Siggy", or DealZ, is a rapper and avid motorcyclist.
Brandi Jackson (b. 1982) - An adopted child, Brandi is also a singer.


Tito Jackson and Delores "Dee Dee" Martez had three children

Tariano Adaryll Jackson, Jr. (b. 1973) - member of the successful pop group 3T (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3T)
Taryll "Taryll" Adren Jackson (b. 1975) - member of the successful pop group 3T (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3T)
Tito Joe "TJ" Jackson (b. 1978) - member of the successful pop group 3T (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3T); the first of the members to become a father, his son Royalty was born in 2000.


Jermaine Jackson and Hazel Gordy had three children:

Jermaine Lu Juane Jackson, Jr. (b. 1977)
Autumn Joy Jackson (b. 1978)
Jaimy Jackson (b. 1987)


Jermaine Jackson and Margaret Maldonado never legally married but had two children:

Jeremy Jackson (b. 1986)
Jourdynn Jackson (b. 1989)


Jermaine and Alejandra Oaziaza had two children:

Jaffar Jackson (b. 1996)
Jermajesty Jackson (b. 2000)


Jermaine Jackson and Halima Rashid (4th wife) have no children


LaToya Jackson and Jack Gordon had no children.


Marlon Jackson and Carol Parker have three children:

Valencia Jackson (b. 1977) - has a son, Noah, born in 2006
Brittany Jackson (b. 1978)
Marlon David Jackson, Jr. (b. 1985) - Marlon, Jr. currently is a member of a hip-hop duo.


Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Marie_Presley) had no children.


Michael Jackson and Deborah Jeanne Rowe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Jeanne_Rowe) had two children:

Michael Joseph Prince Jackson (b. 1997)
Paris Michael Katherine Jackson (b. 1998)


Michael Jackson and an unidentified woman (reportedly a surrogate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_mother)) had one child:

Prince Michael Jackson II (aka "Blanket") (b. 2002)


Randy Jackson and Eliza Shaffel had one child:

Steveanna Jackson (b. 1990)


Randy Jackson and Alejandra Oaziaza had three children:

Genevieve Jackson (b. 1989)
Donte Jackson (b. 1991)
Steven Randall Jackson, Jr. (b. 1991)


Janet Jackson and James DeBarge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_DeBarge) had no children.


Janet Jackson and Rene Elizondo, Jr. had no children.


Janet Jackson and Jermaine Dupri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jermaine_Dupri) have no children.

[PBJMOM4]

You realize Rebbie is the illegitimate daughter of Joe..and not related to Michael's mother don't you? Why should MJ's children go to the daughter of the father MJ could hardly abide?

After reading so many of these posters opinions as to who should "get" MJ's children..
I'm glad a learned judge will have that job.

Jovanni Jackson was the illegitimate daughters name.

[4Life]

You realize Rebbie is the illegitimate daughter of Joe..and not related to Michael's mother don't you? Why should MJ's children go to the daughter of the father MJ could hardly abide?

After reading so many of these posters opinions as to who should "get" MJ's children..
I'm glad a learned judge will have that job.

No she's not. Joe had another daughter from someone else but it was not Rebbie.

[CinderL.]

I think the poster is talking about MTV as the mainstream. Back in the 80's MTV was huge. Artists record sales soared if they got a video on MTV. Once MJ got on MTV, the others follwed. I think Diana Ross started to have videos on MTV right after MJ did Yes, but the others had already opened the door for the Jackson's to even be in the mainstream music industry. If it hadn't been for all of the Black artists before them, they would still be playing in Black clubs. The others opened the door. IMO

[4Life]

Yes, but the others had already opened the door for the Jackson's to even be in the mainstream music industry. If it hadn't been for all of the Black artists before them, they would still be playing in Black clubs. The others opened the door. IMO

Ok, I see what you're saying

[aproudmom]

What about Sammie Davis, Diana Ross, Smokie Robinson, Gladis Knight, The four Tops, All of those people were in the mainstream with Ed Sullivan, and the dance shows.

MTV that was a big thing IMO..

[CinderL.]

MTV that was a big thing IMO..

It was, but as I said if the others hadn't opened the door they wouldn't have even been close to MTV.

[VC2]

The question is if he made ANY statement where he wants to be buried.

yes but i disagree that he never wanted to go back.. Right after the trial, no way did he want to, it was to hard but he fought tooth and nail to keep some piece of neverland any time it was in danger. I think Neverland was always his dream home, and he still hoped it could become what he wanted it to. It would have been easy for him to let go of the extra 24% if he never wanted to go back.

I honestly think that he would want to be buried there if it was possible, which it may well not be..IF it was turned back into an amusement park, a place for kids, a place for needy children or kids with cancer to come and stay etc etc.

IMO

[aproudmom]

Yes, but the others had already opened the door for the Jackson's to even be in the mainstream music industry. If it hadn't been for all of the Black artists before them, they would still be playing in Black clubs. The others opened the door. IMO

Oh OK got ya now..sorry did not understand what you were saying...you are correct they did

[PBJMOM4]

That is correct. Thank you so much. I messed up too but just looked it up as well -- not at wiki but in the bio.

no problem-my fellow LI'r! <Suff. Co.>
I don't trust wiki either!

[4Life]

What Cinder is saying is true -- but MJ still was the first one to break the color barrier on MTV. He was also instrumental in establishing the first long-length videos that we are so accustomed to seeing today. He was a musical genius.Thank you, that is what I was trying to say but couldn't put it in words like you did. You get a star for today

[4Life]

Jovanni Jackson was the illegitimate daughters name.

Thanks for the name, I couldn't think of it
OT your screen name is making me want peanut butter and jelly now

[CinderL.]

What Cinder is saying is true -- but MJ still was the first one to break the color barrier on MTV. He was also instrumental in establishing the first long-length videos that we are so accustomed to seeing today. He was a musical genius.

That is true, and I don't dispute that at all. It just kind of p****d me off to listen to Al basically saying that because of the Jackson's, we now have a Black President and how they have don't so much for their race. Give me a break. There are so, so many other, more worthy Black people that have paid a much heaver price to up lift the Black race than the Jackson family.

[VC2]

I think the poster is talking about MTV as the mainstream. Back in the 80's MTV was huge. Artists record sales soared if they got a video on MTV. Once MJ got on MTV, the others follwed. I think Diana Ross started to have videos on MTV right after MJ did

Exactly! MTV was the difference between known or superstars once they came along. The videos went world wide, people who liked a song saw the video and went out to buy it because it went from "like" to love.

Diana Ross was from before MJ but it took MJ for her to get played on MTV.

Its not the same now, especially with youtube etc but at the time MTV was where the most successful artists were. If you weren't played there your sales were lower than all others and until MJ no black artists were played on it. .

IMO

[truthdiscern]

Wow!!!!!!!!! -- of course I remember you. It's like old times. There are a few of us here that followed the trial and it is sooooo good to "see" you -- we were quite the team. :) There are still a couple missing that I remember but haven't seen them since.

I actually posted the transcript from that interview with Mes. He has great insight into MJ and like you said we pretty much what we thought as well.

yep..good to see you as well...and you are right, we were a team...why am I not surprised that you posted the mes interview?...I thought it was insightful and honoring...
i cant remember many names..yours was easy and i knew it was you after reading just a few lines...salem?..who else is here?...strangers with handles that i cant remember but have a bond with...the internet is darned amazing at times...
i remember that we had to go on another site in order to communicate toward the end of the trial just to stop the harassment.. although for the life of me i cant remember who or how we set that up..but we were there...and here
i'm on a couple political sites these days...i found myself defending mj in the past few days and came across similar anger as experienced here initially...i maintained then and now that it is a reflection of the mind of the person reacting..and now, im older, information is so readily available, that i just don't have the same tolerance for shallow accusations...older, wiser, grumpier...
still interested in truth however..

[CinderL.]

Sam Cook
Jackie Wilson

:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:

[Mr. Moto2]

Listened to a cbs producer (think it was cbs) when his first video was release. He had to fight with MTV because at the time they refused to play any black artists. In fact he said he threatened them, said that if they did refuse to play MJ's he would go public with their letters and what they told him, which was bluntly they did not play black artists there was no audience for them etc etc.

He made it possible for every AA artist after him to get the exposure in the mainstream.

He really did break barriers, more than just one.

It's ironic that Michael Jackson ended up being instrumental to MTV's success.

I have to say, the early 80s were really happening. Things were rapidly breaking away from the tired and old ways. Cable TV was booming and MTV spearheaded it. CDs were replacing vinyl. Video tapes were a new way of watching movies. "Home" computers were becoming commonplace, and online services were providing a glimpse of what we have now in the World Wide Web.

[aproudmom]

It was, but as I said if the others hadn't opened the door they wouldn't have even been close to MTV.

My bad I did not read it right and you are correct or at least I agree with you

[4Life]

Actually I don't think it was Michael himself. It was one of his managers or producers who went after MTV. Also Quincy Jones.

imo

Yeah I think it was Joe

[CinderL.]

Will this be an open casket on friday? I don't know but they keep calling it a public viewing. And I think it is horrific it true. MJ would have hated that. IMO

[aproudmom]

Actually I don't think it was Michael himself. It was one of his managers or producers who went after MTV. Also Quincy Jones.

imo

they talked about this last night on that special about him on the Bio channel not sure if anyone else saw it but it was very good alot of people on there who worked with them from the early years up to after the trial..I never realized how creative and everything had to be PERFECT it was about making his fans happy during the concert him flying in the air with a rocket on his back and they said he would even write a check to make it just what he wanted because he wanted it perfect for his fans...

[CinderL.]

OMG - don't wanna say the word. :ohmy: What word??? :confused:

Never mind. OMG

[aproudmom]

I don't know but they keep calling it a public viewing. And I think it is horrific it true. MJ would have hated that. IMO

I agree I think he would like a memorial but not people looking at him he had a hard enough time with that when he was alive I hope they do not do that...IMO

[aproudmom]

Did anyone watch Anderson Cooper the Hot Doctor don't know how to spell his name..anyway he agreed they pretty much how or what killed him and them going back into the home 2 days later after it had been released to the family they were looking for something..the Brain test would be the only thing they would still be waiting on is what he said they have to freeze the fluid or something..sorry not word for word what he said

[aproudmom]

Your link took me to Netflix ??

http://www.tmz.com/

[truthdiscern]

----------------------

wowsa

I have a feeling this is going to be THE drug that killed him and whomever prescribed is gonna have some explaining to do..and an attorney..

[emdragon]

What Cinder is saying is true -- but MJ still was the first one to break the color barrier on MTV. He was also instrumental in establishing the first long-length videos that we are so accustomed to seeing today. He was a musical genius.

Actually that depends on what you consider the color barrier- J.J. Jackson was an original VJ and was of color.

During MTV's first few years on the air, very few black artists were included in rotation on the channel. Those who were in MTV's rotation included Eddy Grant, Tina Turner and Donna Summer

Billie Jean was the first video to be in regular rotation- but contrary to what has been said Michael Jackson was not the first artist to appear on MTV.

(not denying there was a lack of black artists on the channel but I think most of that had more to do with a lack of artists who fit the demographics.)

[aproudmom]

Sorry if this was posted already.

They apparently found the potent anesthetic drug in MJ's house. The drug that the nurse was talking about on CNN. :ohmy:

http://www.tmz.com/

imo

but she said LE has not even talked to her..and they said it is only given through IV's right?:confused: it is a milky liquid they said used for small surgery's because they can be put to sleep and woke up easily after some surgeries IIRC and she did not even know what it was and had to call a doctor she said to find out..she was on LKL and Anderson Cooper by phone..

[truthdiscern]

I don't think you prescribe diprivan. It's an anasthetic used only in hospitals. If true, someone had to get it illegally for him.

imo
did he ask the nurse to get it for him illegally?...

[FallenAngel♥]

OMG - don't wanna say the word. :ohmy:

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2009/06/30/michael-jackson-desperately-sought-sedative-nutritionist-says/

Sounds like he was suicidal to me..........
This whole thing reminds me of Anna Nicole Smith.

[FallenAngel♥]

did he ask the nurse to get it for him illegally?...

well yeah because you aren't suppose to use those kind of drugs outside a operating room.

[FallenAngel♥]

Nurse on CNN right now.

oh yes i heard her earlier on LKL.....

I hope the LE talk to her tomorrow.

She was kind enough to even show MJ how it could kill him. :(

[emdragon]

I was thinking how strange it is that not one doctor or nurse or anyone working in the hospital when MJ died has come forward and said anything. u know..........like their 15 minutes of fame or something. jmo

That most likely is thanks to Farrah who battled UCLA Medical for allowing her medical records to be gone through and leaked.
Farrah's fight resulted in a new medical privacy law that took effect Jan 1

[FallenAngel♥]

Now that TMZ has reported that they found the drug she becomes more credible. Actually she sounded believable to me in the interview. But who knows if she's looking for her 15 minutes or not?

But Anderson did try and trip her up. :angry:

imo

IMO she sounded very credible.

[CinderL.]

I just talked to my friend who is an ER nurse. She said they use it all the time. But, They have to have a resparitory therapist there the whole time. Have to check blood pressure every three minutes. She said there is no way someone would use this in a home setting. :scared:

[FallenAngel♥]

Usually used in an IV prior to surgery :ohmy:

Yes ma'am....i called my mom ( RN surgical nurse ) while i was watching LKL and she said morphine is like an asprin compared to that stuff :scared:

[CinderL.]

My friend said they use it a lot on kids who have broken bones to set the bone. It is fast acting and doesn't last a long time.

But, very dangerous.

[CinderL.]

I don't think MJ was trying to commit suicide -- he wanted to sleep -- if someone gave it to him before -- he probably was able to sleep because he asked her if he had someone monitoring him he would be OK -- and she did tell him no but again if he's had it before he probably just poo-poohed her and went to someone else.

IMO whoever he got this drug from is in trouble.

Big trouble. It is only used in the hospital.

[Ice Cycle]

Sounds like he was suicidal to me..........
This whole thing reminds me of Anna Nicole Smith.

I don't think he was suicidal or he would of not been planning the tour. Though if it is true what the nurse said that he was sleep deprived and thought due to that he was low on energy maybe he had someone else get it for him since she would not and maybe he tried to give it to himself. If so it is doubtful that person will ever come forward and admit it.

[FallenAngel♥]

Did you see how annoyed the lawyer is?

ohhhhhhh yeah he was like so what does this have to do with MJ dying.
I can't wait to see the autopsy report.

[aproudmom]

------------

then how did she know about that drug?

this whole thing is a huge ???????

[4Life]

DIPRIVAN comes in a special glass
container which may be a vial or a
syringe. This will be supplied to
your anaesthetist.
DIPRIVAN is given by an injection
into a vein, usually in the forearm or
the back of the hand.

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcmed.nsf/pages/apcdipri/$File/apcdipri.pdf

[FallenAngel♥]

IMO MJ was probably like Elvis.......... needed stuff to stay awake and needed stuff to sleep...after awhile mild stuff stopped working so he had to go to stronger stuff, then stronger stuff.......

[4Life]

I don't think MJ was trying to commit suicide -- he wanted to sleep -- if someone gave it to him before -- he probably was able to sleep because he asked her if he had someone monitoring him he would be OK -- and she did tell him no but again if he's had it before he probably just poo-poohed her and went to someone else.

IMO whoever he got this drug from is in trouble.

Maybe that is why he was having that doc sleep over more and more

[FallenAngel♥]

Michael was not suicidal.

really? and you know this how? i mean honestly do any of us know how he was feeling?

[CinderL.]

My ER friend said that they HAVE to have the respiratory therapist there to bag the patient in case they stop breathing, if breathing isn't started right away, the medication will stop the heart.

[CinderL.]

I have no doubt this caused his death - but who gave him the drug is the big question

Whoever it is, is in big big trouble.

[aproudmom]

did she say who called her??

http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/music/wire/sns-ap-us-michael-jackson-drugs,0,4770768.story

While in Florida on June 21, Lee was contacted by a member of Jackson's staff. He called and was very frantic and said, 'Michael needs to see you right away.' I said, 'What's wrong?' And I could hear Michael in the background ..., 'One side of my body is hot, it's hot, and one side of my body is cold. It's very cold,'" Lee said.

[CinderL.]

This poses another question. Would MJ have known he had to take this lidocaine to suppress the pain associated with the propofol?

The drug can only be administered with an IV. Interestingly, Propofol burns and the drug Lidocaine is used to reduce the pain associated with the Propofol injection. As we first reported, Lidocaine was found near Jackson's body.

http://www.tmz.com/

That is a great question. And, it is IV. Could MJ give himself an IV?

[CinderL.]

-----------------

i gotta agree with u on this, Angel. I thought from the beginning he may have committed suicide. I'm not so sure that he didnt. jmo Could he have given himself an IV? This drug isn't just a shot. Someone had to give it to him. IMO

[Mayasmimi]

Still so sad. Still cannot believe he is gone. Not a big Joe fan, but my heart aches for Katherine and each of HIS children. Amazing.

Sorry that he didn't know what we thought of him before he passed. Lesson learned.

Me? I choose not to think of the molestation cases. I guess I can separate the two. So sorry if that offends.

[FallenAngel♥]

-----------------

i gotta agree with u on this, Angel. I thought from the beginning he may have committed suicide. I'm not so sure that he didnt. jmo

you know how they say suicide by cop....well i think this might have been suicide by doctor.

i think he had a lot of pain and not physical pain.........I just couldn't imagine the stress he was under with 50 concerts coming up and knowing he wasn't ready.


MOO

[aproudmom]

My ER friend said that they HAVE to have the respiratory therapist there to bag the patient in case they stop breathing, if breathing isn't started right away, the medication will stop the heart.

this is getting sader and sader if so many people knew this..I know he ask for things but someone had to give the stuff to him..

It has also been implicated in drug abuse, with people using it to "chill out" or to commit suicide, Zacny said. Accidental deaths linked to abuse have been reported. The powerful drug has a very narrow therapeutic window, meaning it doesn't take doses much larger than the medically recommended amount to stop a person's breathing.

An overdose that stops breathing can result in a buildup of carbon dioxide, causing the heart to beat erratically and leading to cardiac arrest, said Dr. John Dombrowski, a member of the board of directors of the American Society of Anesthesiologists.

Because it is given intravenously and is not the kind of prescription drug typically available from pharmacists, abuse cases have involved anesthesiologists, nurses and other hospital staffers with easy access to the drug, Zacny said.

[emdragon]

IMO MJ was probably like Elvis.......... needed stuff to stay awake and needed stuff to sleep...after awhile mild stuff stopped working so he had to go to stronger stuff, then stronger stuff.......

Sorry no not like Elvis.
Elvis began using amphetamines in the 60's when it was legal to stay up for performances and then he need help sleeping- his days were nights his nights days.

Jackson had no reason to have his days and nights confused he was a father and should have been with the kids during the day- I think he had plain old insomnia which can be crippling and it was aggravated by an addiction to pain pills.
I really think Michael got this drug often during his surgeries and knew it would let him sleep.

[aproudmom]

you know how they say suicide by cop....well i think this might have been suicide by doctor.

i think he had a lot of pain and not physical pain.........I just couldn't imagine the stress he was under with 50 concerts coming up and knowing he wasn't ready.


MOO

ITA and it is very sad

[CinderL.]

you know how they say suicide by cop....well i think this might have been suicide by doctor.

i think he had a lot of pain and not physical pain.........I just couldn't imagine the stress he was under with 50 concerts coming up and knowing he wasn't ready.


MOO

I don't think this is a drug any regular Dr.'s can even get. It has to come from someone in a hospital.

[CinderL.]

Is it a drip?
I don't know. My friend said they give just a little, and see how they do before they give more.

[Mayasmimi]

Okay. Guess I'll catch up at some point. Night.

[aproudmom]

Sorry no not like Elvis.
Elvis began using amphetamines in the 60's when it was legal to stay up for performances and then he need help sleeping- his days were nights his nights days.

Jackson had no reason to have his days and nights confused he was a father and should have been with the kids during the day- I think he had plain old insomnia which can be crippling and it was aggravated by an addiction to pain pills.
I really think Michael got this drug often during his surgeries and knew it would let him sleep.

yeah and another sad case of people knowing just what was going on and did nothing until he was dead....Star or not the Doctors need to be held responsible also maybe people will not get addicted but the regular person they give them stuff then stop and they have them addicted to the stuff and they search for it on the streets because the doc says NO MO sorry got you addicted and deal with it..JMO

[CinderL.]

Not being accusatory because I don't know but this says it takes 40 seconds -- that would contradict what his Drs lawyer has been saying. This nurse is also saying MJ asked her if she could find someone who could come give it to him and watch him sleep - doesn't sound like he was going to do it himself

Problem: Using propofol (DIPRIVAN) to sedate patients during endoscopic and other diagnostic procedures is gaining momentum in a growing number of hospitals, outpatient surgery centers, and physician offices.(1) In trained hands, propofol offers many advantages over other drugs used for sedation because it:

* Has a rapid onset (about 40 seconds) and a short duration of action

http://www.ismp.org/newsletters/acutecare/articles/20051103.asp

Something is very fishy.

[CinderL.]

It must be IV drip, because the Dr. on CNN was saying it is quick on...as soon as you start the drip, and quick off......as soon as you stop the drip.

[aproudmom]

Okay. Guess I'll catch up at some point. Night.

Night May good luck catching up seems something new quit often

[CinderL.]

Think about it -- the doctor says MJ asked him to sit on the bed and he did (don't know for how long) then the Dr said he left the room and came back and MJ still had a weak pulse. Something definitely not right.

This Dr is also not board certified -- is it possible he never used this drug before and did not know how to administer it or in what quantity?

Just thinking out loud ....................

I remember the other night Geraldo giving scenarios as to why it could have been possible homicide and I thought he was nuts

From what my friend told me, he would have stopped breathing and could have still had a pulse, but he was in big trouble, unless someone intubated him right away.

[CinderL.]

Think about it -- the doctor says MJ asked him to sit on the bed and he did (don't know for how long) then the Dr said he left the room and came back and MJ still had a weak pulse. Something definitely not right.

This Dr is also not board certified -- is it possible he never used this drug before and did not know how to administer it or in what quantity?

Just thinking out loud ....................

I remember the other night Geraldo giving scenarios as to why it could have been possible homicide and I thought he was nuts



http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13234316&highlight=Geraldo#post13234316

Ha, I still think he is nuts. Sometimes he gets it right though. This time I think is wrong. I still think it is accidental. I think the Dr. will be in a whole lot of trouble though.

[aproudmom]

It must be IV drip, because the Dr. on CNN was saying it is quick on...as soon as you start the drip, and quick off......as soon as you stop the drip.

I was going to ask you if you heard that also...same thing I heard..

Lee, 56, is licensed as a registered nurse and nurse practitioner in California, according to the state Board of Registered Nursing's Web site. She attended Los Angeles Southwest College and the Charles Drew University of Medicine and Sciences in Los Angeles.

Comedian Dick Gregory, who knows Lee and her work, said he believes Jackson's insomnia had its roots in the pop star's 2005 trial on child molestation charges. Jackson's health had deteriorated so much that his parents called Gregory, a natural foods proponent, for help.

Gregory said Jackson wasn't eating or drinking at the time and, after he was persuaded by Gregory to undergo testing, ended up hospitalized for severe dehydration.

But Jackson obviously was healthy enough to withstand the level of medical scrutiny needed to insure him for the upcoming high-stakes London concerts, Gregory said. "That you don't trick," he said of the exams.

Lee, who has also worked with Stevie Wonder, Marla Gibbs, Reynaldo Rey and other celebrities, said she was introduced to Jackson by the mother of one of his staff members. Jackson's three children had minor cold symptoms and their pediatrician was out of town.

Lee said she went to the house in January, the first of about 10 visits there through April, and treated the children with vitamins. Michael, intrigued, asked what else she did and took her up on her claim she could boost his energy.

After running blood tests, she devised protein shakes for him and gave him an intravenous vitamin and mineral mixture — known as a "Myers cocktail," after Dr. John Myers — which Lee said she uses routinely in her practice.

"It wasn't that he felt sick," she said. "He just wanted more energy."

Lee said she decided to speak out to protect Jackson's reputation from what she considers unfounded allegations of drug abuse or shortcomings as a parent.

"I think it's so wrong for people to say these things about him," she said. "He was a wonderful, loving father who wanted the best for his children."

http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/music/wire/sns-ap-us-michael-jackson-drugs,0,4770768.story?page=2

[CinderL.]

I was going to ask you if you heard that also...same thing I heard..

Lee, 56, is licensed as a registered nurse and nurse practitioner in California, according to the state Board of Registered Nursing's Web site. She attended Los Angeles Southwest College and the Charles Drew University of Medicine and Sciences in Los Angeles.

Comedian Dick Gregory, who knows Lee and her work, said he believes Jackson's insomnia had its roots in the pop star's 2005 trial on child molestation charges. Jackson's health had deteriorated so much that his parents called Gregory, a natural foods proponent, for help.

Gregory said Jackson wasn't eating or drinking at the time and, after he was persuaded by Gregory to undergo testing, ended up hospitalized for severe dehydration.

But Jackson obviously was healthy enough to withstand the level of medical scrutiny needed to insure him for the upcoming high-stakes London concerts, Gregory said. "That you don't trick," he said of the exams.

Lee, who has also worked with Stevie Wonder, Marla Gibbs, Reynaldo Rey and other celebrities, said she was introduced to Jackson by the mother of one of his staff members. Jackson's three children had minor cold symptoms and their pediatrician was out of town.

Lee said she went to the house in January, the first of about 10 visits there through April, and treated the children with vitamins. Michael, intrigued, asked what else she did and took her up on her claim she could boost his energy.

After running blood tests, she devised protein shakes for him and gave him an intravenous vitamin and mineral mixture — known as a "Myers cocktail," after Dr. John Myers — which Lee said she uses routinely in her practice.

"It wasn't that he felt sick," she said. "He just wanted more energy."

Lee said she decided to speak out to protect Jackson's reputation from what she considers unfounded allegations of drug abuse or shortcomings as a parent.

"I think it's so wrong for people to say these things about him," she said. "He was a wonderful, loving father who wanted the best for his children."

http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/music/wire/sns-ap-us-michael-jackson-drugs,0,4770768.story?page=2

All she said is you would never use it in a home setting. You need to be able to tube them if needed. She said they use it all the time in the ER but it is scary.

[LILMANMAX]

Under a hospital setting this drug would be administered by IV drip with saline. It would not be injected directly into a vein.

I told my Aunt Thursday I thought Michael had been murdered. JMO

This DR is in deep and needs to be charged. Again JMO

Sadly my suspicions seem to be coming true.

This is much worse than I originally thought. My grief is in full blown mode right now and I can only imagine how his Mother, children, family and friends feel right now. :sad:

Charges will be coming very soon.

[CinderL.]

MJ said in that documentary that he had a relationship with the mother of "Blanket". That was a lie. Right?

[aproudmom]

Ha, I still think he is nuts. Sometimes he gets it right though. This time I think is wrong. I still think it is accidental. I think the Dr. will be in a whole lot of trouble though.

I do to I dont think he killed himself..Not that I know that for sure but it is so easy to take something and it kill you..happens all the time

One of my sons classmates went off to college and wanted to be cool so he was drinking and took a xanax they are both downers ..well that is what I call them..he sit against a wall and he passed out his head went forward and it cut off his breathing he is dead I would never have thought that could happen the difference is 2 things killed him the drinking xanax but COD was not overdose he could not breathe

[CinderL.]

He's deceased so we can't ask him...right??
No we can't. So will this woman be coming out of the woodwork too? And why wasn't her name on the birth certificate if it is true?

[SDMermaid]

Great post ITA!

Michael was a great entertainer. Hearing his music so much this week has reminded of how beautiful his songs are. I have very conflicted feelings about him as a person but I decided it doesn't matter. I probably wouldn't have liked VanGogh personally but I love his paintings, Jane Eyre was probably a little dark but I love her novels. I can love the art but not the artist and that is what I choose to do. jmo

[SDMermaid]

I have a problem with his lying too.


This is one of the things that bother me most about MJ. As much as I tried to avoid (well sorta) all the MJ coverage this weekend, it seems as if I got sucked into every documentary ever made. I counted three separate incidents where MJ looked right into the camera and knowingly lied. I really wanted to believe the allegations were false, but after seeing him lie so easily, well... it bothered me.

He could have easily said "I don't want to talk about this" or "no comment on that", etc., but to look right in the lens and lie just shot any cred he almost had.

[CinderL.]

I do to I dont think he killed himself..Not that I know that for sure but it is so easy to take something and it kill you..happens all the time

One of my sons classmates went off to college and wanted to be cool so he was drinking and took a xanax they are both downers ..well that is what I call them..he sit against a wall and he passed out his head went forward and it cut off his breathing he is dead I would never have thought that could happen the difference is 2 things killed him the drinking xanax but COD was not overdose he could not breathe

That is so sad.

I suppose it is possible he could have administered this drug to himself, I just don't think so.

[SDMermaid]

Yeah I know! Next he will say MJ could walk on water lol!


Well, Al Sharpton is sure making the whole thing an African American issue. Big surprise. Saying MJ made it possible for AA's to go to the for front. Is he forgetting all of those before MJ.? Maybe even Martin L. King. Geez.

[LILMANMAX]

There is no way that drug was self-administered.
You can take that to the bank.

[SDMermaid]

MJ lies we don't know the race of his 3rd child because there is no listing on the birth certificate for a mother. This is the same MJ that said he had only 2 nose jobs but nothing else:rolleyes:


In an interview I saw, he claimed he did not care what race his children were. "Rainbow", he said would be good. He also stated Blankets mother was black.

[CinderL.]

I am watching a show, and they are saying that MJ was spending $55,000.00 dollars more a day then he was taking in. :ohmy: Yikes.

[SDMermaid]

You are right! He did say that so that's why I believe he is not the bio kids of any of them just look at the 2 older children now way in heck are those kids made by him they would have gotten the Jackson nose for sure everyone in his family had that same nose.


Another lie, whether intentional or not. He claimed in one interview that Blanket's mother and him were at one time, "in a relationship". In the next documentary (with Besheer I believe), he claimed he never knew her and she was just a surrogate.

[CinderL.]

Doesn't surprise me at all. I don't think he looked at price tags either.

Heavens no, I don't think so either. It is one of those things that "regular" people just can't relate to. I sure know I can't. :laugh: 55 thousand a day more than he was making. :ohmy:

[aproudmom]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196626/Michael-Jacksons-body-fairytale-public-viewing-Neverland-Ranch-funeral-Sunday.html

Michael Jackson's body will have 'fairytale' public viewing at Neverland Ranch before funeral on Sunday

[CinderL.]

You are right! He did say that so that's why I believe he is not the bio kids of any of them just look at the 2 older children now way in heck are those kids made by him they would have gotten the Jackson nose for sure everyone in his family had that same nose.

And when Basir ? asked if he had had a relationship with the mother of Blanket he hesitated and then said YES. So, if true where is she? Who is she? I don't believe it. Sorry.

[SDMermaid]

Do you have a link to the pic because I haven't seen it. I really would like to think MJ was innocent because I grew up with his music in the 80's in his peak before all this mess and now I would like to enjoy his music without feel guilty that he might be a child molester. I wish these kids would come out and say is was all a lie if it was all a lie.

We would have to be MJ to know why he thought he had to keep doing cosmetic surgery.

From his photos taken just days ago at rehearsal it seems he had further surgery and was going back to how he looked when he really was in his prime.

He looked beautiful again in the outfits, especially the one where he has the purple see through shirt/jacket on and his hair done like he use to wear it.

imo

[SDMermaid]

I for one isn't envy at all of MJ spending loads of money on stuff that he didn't need. He should have spent that money on therapy and maybe he would be less messed up in life.


You could clearly see in the "documentary" how emotional and biased Bashir himself was.

He asked a shop assistant 3 times how much Michael spent.

What was the aim of the repeated question? - A high figure.
What does a high figure imply? - He wastes his money.
Why do you want to show this? - People who watch are envy cause they can't "waste" money the same way he did.

This is no journalism but manipulation of emotions.

It's a long time I watched the "documentary" but I felt sympathy when he asked him questions about his plastic surgery. Would you treat anyone who told you he suffers from his looks the same way? That's cruel.

THIS made me tick. How could a journalist be so disgraceful?

[CinderL.]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196626/Michael-Jacksons-body-fairytale-public-viewing-Neverland-Ranch-funeral-Sunday.html

Michael Jackson's body will have 'fairytale' public viewing at Neverland Ranch before funeral on Sunday

Ewww. They are going to have him in a glass case. He would have hated that, I think. Are they going to have his mask on? I can't believe all of this. I think it is sick.

[SDMermaid]

But they were seduced by MJ fame like any parent would be. MJ wasn't stupid he knew his victims well and knew their weakness...money and shopping and free vacations. Heck even I would admit it would be tempting but no way in heck would I let my child sleep in the same bed as him.

Don't think I would defend these horrible parents... but you don't know what their reasons were. Maybe it was comfortable for them that they didn't have to take care of Jordan. They had "free time".

[CinderL.]

There is no reason to bash Michael Jackson. He is no longer living, and it just isn't right. I doubt even one poster here knew him personally, and therefore, have no personal knowledge of anything. There is nothing factual on the news programs, only theories without substance.

The lack of human decency I am seeing on these threads is pathetic. :cursing: BTW, this thread is NOT about the trial in which Michael was acquitted. Surely no one is going to attempt to retry him on a message board!

mo :seeya:

I don't know him, I don't idolize him, or anyone else for that matter. This is a message board to discuss what is going on. I don't see a lack of human decency going on. I didn't know the man. I liked some of his music. That is it. He was human, and had faults. Just because he is dead, I am not going to put him on some pedestal. The fact that they are having some kind of "State Funeral" for him is gross, IMO.

[SDMermaid]

I believe Bashir was setting up MJ but MJ opened his mouth and offered way too much info this is why they have lawyers to protect them from themselves.

[QUOTE=sunstar;13240648]I didn't care for Bashir either and the tone of his questions. MOO[/QUOTE

[SDMermaid]

Me too! I would be shocked if they are his bio kids. I wonder what they have them listed as on their passports? Black or white? My father is from Hawaii but my mother is from Sweden. I put down I'm white because I have blonde hair and green eyes.


I don't buy the vitiligo story either. Nope, way too convenient, especially when you add in the rest of the things he did to either alter his appearance and then coincidentally have caucasian children. (And yes, I absolutely believe these children are caucasian).

[CinderL.]

I'm pretty sure you aren't qualified to know what MJ's mental state was. Just a guess on my part.

mo


By all accounts, he was pretty messed up in the last few years.

[SDMermaid]

MJ just bought whatever he wanted didn't care how much he spent. What a waste he did need all that stuff he was just showing off. Look how lonely and sad the guy was all holed up in Neverland that he had to pay people to be around him I wouldn't trade my life for his no way!


He kept asking the question because MJ was spending a huge amount of money. How many gold leaf tables or urns does one person need? As to his plastic surgeries, people were curious, so the interviewer asked the questions. That was his job at the time.

[SDMermaid]

How is he a pervert?:rolleyes:


I thought HE was the pervert and sleaze ball.

He is a despicable little man.

imo

[FallenAngel♥]

Ewww. They are going to have him in a glass case. He would have hated that, I think. Are they going to have his mask on? I can't believe all of this. I think it is sick.

ITA..... i wonder if they will invite the media in and then have it on tv...This is bizzare, sick and just wrong.


moo

[aproudmom]

I agree aproudmom. And you know what - we know that MJ was on prescription drugs but it does not appear right now that this Propofol was self-administered.

I know I am reading about it and it is not something easy to get from all the stuff I am reading...

I am reading something on the Sun dont believe it
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/hermesfeed/2509846/Second-Michael-Jackson-autopsy-stuns-family.html

[SDMermaid]

So if it didn't matter why didn't he adopt any poor black kids that he donated money too? And for your info Madonna has a rainbow of kids her daughter is mixed race she has a white one with her last hubby and now to black kids. MJ had only white children not this rainbow of kids he said he wanted. If he was ok with being black then why only white wives why only white kids? That's what some of us like to know why.


How do we know that Blanket is a 100% caucasian? Why does it matter. Does Madonna adopt white children only? What about Roy Rogers and Dale Evans? What about other stars that are of one race but adopts a child of another race?

Why would MJ be judged differently from so many others and must adopt only black children?:confused:

Does his kids care what race their daddy was? Nope, not for one nano second imo.

imo

[CinderL.]

Haven't seen it. Thanks juliekan :)

From the article..............

"Chernoff, who was present during a 3 1/2-hour questioning session with police, said his client had not injected the powerful painkiller Demerol, despite rumors that the singer received a shot of the narcotic before he went into cardiac arrest Thursday.

“The doctor never prescribed nor administered Demerol to Michael Jackson,” Chernoff said of Murray who left his practices in Houston and Las Vegas three weeks ago to be Jackson’s personal physician. “Nor Oxycontin.”

I wonder if they asked the Dr. if he gave MJ Propofol ?

[CinderL.]

How is he a pervert?:rolleyes:

...Who????

[SDMermaid]

He sure did have a hard time giving that money to people that earned it too! Look at all the times he was sued for not paying someone their part of the money and these people helped him be as famous as he is today. That Thriller video made him huge and he still owes money to the director:cursing:

I didn't remember what he bought. My intention was on the manipulating questions.

He earned the money he spent... and he was in the guiness book for his donations to charity.

You could critize someone for spending his money if he has a lot but never gives anything to charity.

If the items he bought make sense to you or not is unimportant... or would you want someone else to tell you that the things you buy aren't nice or useful?

Do you know the TMZ poll "good genes" or "good docs"? Everybody who answers "good genes" is a fool. Nobody wouldn't look as young as 20 years ago without any plastic surgery. Like Michael Jackson said: Everyone in Hollywood had. -- Yes, almost everyone.

I log out.
:seeya:

[aproudmom]

By WHOSE accounts? When will people learn not to believe everything the media says? Especially tabloid journals and journalists?

Even CNN has been incorrect.

If you follow a person and thier career you will not have to rely on someone else's perspective or opinion. There was a poster here earlier who didn't know Lisa Marie was his wife and appeared with him in the video You Are Not Alone.

I can not speak for everyone but I think most of us do not believe everything we read we are not stupid we know the media does this alot but just giving opinions do not mean I think everything is true until I see it for my own eyes

[SDMermaid]

And what did you put for MJ... good docs?


I didn't remember what he bought. My intention was on the manipulating questions.

He earned the money he spent... and he was in the guiness book for his donations to charity.

You could critize someone for spending his money if he has a lot but never gives anything to charity.

If the items he bought make sense to you or not is unimportant... or would you want someone else to tell you that the things you buy aren't nice or useful?

Do you know the TMZ poll "good genes" or "good docs"? Everybody who answers "good genes" is a fool. Nobody wouldn't look as young as 20 years ago without any plastic surgery. Like Michael Jackson said: Everyone in Hollywood had. -- Yes, almost everyone.

I log out.
:seeya:

[aproudmom]

They are saying this one confirms the first. The coroner said the first one was inaccurate. I also don't believe that the Jackson's family lawyer, Brian Oxman would be talking to the SUN. It appears, IMO, they are using his name to make it appear credible. Apparently they don't know about propofol since it is not mentioned. :shrug:

yeah just what I thought Athena thanks

[SDMermaid]

ITA but I think Janet is the most stable. His parents are too old to take care of young kids. What if they die then who takes care of the kids?


Frankly, I think the whole family has problems. JMO

[aproudmom]

I have known three or four people that have had it. I didn't know at the time what it was called but I did know that it anguished them greatly and they seemed to be ashamed of it even though they couldn't help it. I remember how people would stare at them. I felt so sad for them.:sad:

No, I have been house painting today but I will. I wished I had seen Tom, he is such a classy man.:wink:

imo

I had never seen anyone with it but today there was a women waiting in line at the Apollo and she had the white patches on her arms and face I wondered if that was the same thing he had..sorry can not remember the name of it..I am sure it is very hard

[aproudmom]

ITA but I think Janet is the most stable. His parents are too old to take care of young kids. What if they die then who takes care of the kids?

Is his mother in bad health? she looks really good for her age I must say..I think right now it is best to keep the kids with her and maybe Grace can help out and allow the kids some time before they are moved around

[aproudmom]

ITA but I think Janet is the most stable. His parents are too old to take care of young kids. What if they die then who takes care of the kids?

It has been reported Joe lives in Vegas she lives in California and they have not lived together for several years..do you know if that is true

[SDMermaid]

Wow that makes my dysfunctional family look normal:scared: Leave it up to one of the Jacksons to name their kid Jermajesty what an ego lol!


I don't know....this quoted from the Vanity Fair article.

"As dysfunctional families go, it's hard to top the Jacksons. Katherine Jackson, the matriarch, once filed a petition for divorce and withdrew it, but papers found a few years ago in a warehouse where Jackson-family memorabilia had been stored revealed that she and three of her children had had a six-figure settlement against them for beating up one of the girlfriends of her husband, Joseph Jackson. In addition to his children by Katherine, Joseph has an illegitimate daughter. Rebbie, the eldest of the nine children, reportedly once pressed charges against her father for sexually molesting her when she was 12. Jackie, the eldest son, once suffered a broken leg when his first wife ran over him with a car after having caught him in bed with the singer Paula Abdul. Jermaine, a convert to Islam, has a girlfriend and two wives, one of whom, Alejandra, is in the process of divorcing him. She has one child, Jermajesty, with Jermaine and two with Jermaine's brother Randy, to whom she was engaged before Jermaine stole her away. In 1994 brother Tito's ex-wife drowned in a swimming pool, and her older lover was convicted of murdering her. At the 2004 Super Bowl, Janet caused a nationwide scandal with her "wardrobe malfunction." In 1989, La Toya left home, married her manager, wrote a tell-all book about the family, then returned to the fold, recanted, and accused her husband of beating her. Police recently questioned at least one of Michael Jackson's nephews about his relationship with his uncle."

[SDMermaid]

Anytime he said things like that he would smile and it just gave me the creeps it's they way he would talk all soft and in la la land.


Did you ever hear anything as ridiculous as his answer when asked if he was the sperm donor of his children as they appeared Caucasian/white?? He replied that was why they were called "colored people" because they came in all colors. GMAB. Besides - how could one give credence to anything he said when he claimed to have only two facial surgeries?! Someone should have told him that if you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.

[SDMermaid]

Well if he didn't want people to know he shouldn't have been in the public eye he can't have his cake and eat it too! It goes with being famous you are going to be built up and then taken apart that's why I'm glad I wasn't ever famous.

I always felt it highly offensive that anyone would think it was their business how many surgeries he had.

I have never seen someone just come up to someone and ask such an assign question that was none of their business anyway.:mad:

imo

[SDMermaid]

I was only 10 when Thriller came out and I would like to know why he went for being cute black guy to what he was last week. Everyone thought he didn't want to be black so I agree that the questions needed to be addressed about what he turned himself into. I still don't know why he kept making his nose smaller each yr. And his eyes and chin was worked on too. Plastic surgery is suppose to improve your looks not completely change into a different person.

Do you think an interviewer that was given access, no holes bared, wouldn't ask MJ how many surgeries he has had? He went from a normal, cute black child, to a weird looking white man. I am so sorry, but when he did Thriller and that period in his life he was so good looking. The change was certainly noticeable.

[SDMermaid]

I think that guy that fought for MJ to be on MTV deserves the credit more then MJ for breaking barriers.


Listened to a cbs producer (think it was cbs) when his first video was release. He had to fight with MTV because at the time they refused to play any black artists. In fact he said he threatened them, said that if they did refuse to play MJ's he would go public with their letters and what they told him, which was bluntly they did not play black artists there was no audience for them etc etc.

He made it possible for every AA artist after him to get the exposure in the mainstream.

He really did break barriers, more than just one.

[*Serenity*]

The funniest youtube clips of Michael are funny and cute.
He mentions he does not want to be buried- he wants to live forever in the first one. One of them he mentions he hates going on tours, and one of them he is having a blast with his cousins at the pool.
I spent some time tonight reflecting back on a lot of videos and interviews.




Michaels Funniest Moments Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3BZqRCvviA&feature=related

Michaels Funniest Moments Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYsc27R2DqM&feature=related

Michaels Funniest Moments Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMYvW5JAIrA&NR=1

LaToya speaks about Michael in 1994 (yikes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfUC82XkO4c&feature=related

Janet about Michael 2001 (short but sweet)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q9vVkKy7Do&feature=related


Michael Jackson-- Beat It Interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lfk2n-iRDU&feature=fvw

Michael Jackson -- Jet Interview (relaxed interview)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCKxPWIyOuI&NR=1

Michael Jackson (Bill Clinton Gala)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ubC10jZQak&feature=related

[magnolia]

I think these children think they were very lucky to have had the daddy they had.

I don't think poor is in their future. They are going to be extremely rich and they have plenty of love and support just like MJ knew they would.

imo

Wow...really? MJ was a great dad? Hmmmm...I'm surprised to read what I'm reading here. I thought on this site there would be more people who believe children when accusing an adult of a crime.

Even if he's completely innocent (as far as the molestation), there are many indicators that he did not provide a safe, secure environment for his children. If the nanny is to be believed, the children were not themselves around him (my words here). Did he love them? Sure. But sometimes love does not translate to appropriate action.

[disneyfreak]

Wow...really? MJ was a great dad? Hmmmm...I'm surprised to read what I'm reading here. I thought on this site there would be more people who believe children when accusing an adult of a crime.

Even if he's completely innocent (as far as the molestation), there are many indicators that he did not provide a safe, secure environment for his children. If the nanny is to be believed, the children were not themselves around him (my words here). Did he love them? Sure. But sometimes love does not translate to appropriate action.

I'm not surprised at all. I heard all of this dating back to the civil and criminal trials in Santa Maria. I just don't get it. All I have read, including legal and legitimate main stream media sources, have shown he was NOT a good parent. Poor parenting skills showed through from the masks preventing them from expressing their personality to the basic poor housekeeping in their home -- (all one needed to do was look at the evidence photographs of Neverland from the criminal case to know what I mean).

[kellabeck]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-06-30/jacksons-final-panic/

Link to an interesting article by Gerald Posner suggesting a possible scenario for Jackson's death.

Summary: Jackson wanted to trigger a medical clause to get out of so many concert dates and may have mixed pills in order to create a need to go to the hospital.

Support for this? Using a medical excuse is not new for Jackson. Remember the pajama day?
Pill taking? Well-known.
50 concert dates? Posner lays out the sequence of events-- Jackson announced 10 dates which then kept expanding reportedly against Jackson's will.
ALSO-- according to Posner, Murray did not routinely sleep over but was asked to stay that night. And the suggestion is that that may have been his "safety net."

The thrust of this is that it was an accident. He wanted to create a minor medical issue that would get him out of the concert dates but it went too far.

[JHP]

I'm not surprised at all. I heard all of this dating back to the civil and criminal trials in Santa Maria. I just don't get it. All I have read, including legal and legitimate main stream media sources, have shown he was NOT a good parent. Poor parenting skills showed through from the masks preventing them from expressing their personality to the basic poor housekeeping in their home -- (all one needed to do was look at the evidence photographs of Neverland from the criminal case to know what I mean).

I have wondered if these children had any kind if education? I hope whoever raises them keeps them in as normal of an enviornment as they can.

[disneyfreak]

I have wondered if these children had any kind if education? I hope whoever raises them keeps them in as normal of an enviornment as they can.

They were "home schooled". I put this in quotes as there was no evidence that they received any education while in Santa Maria. I have heard this hasn't changed, but can't speak on authority regarding that matter. At one point, Jackson stated specifically that it was not safe for his children to attend public school because they would be harassed by other schoolmates.