Michael Jackson Tues 6/30

[VC2]

I shouldn't laugh, but JVM and Jim something (the inside edition guy) just spent 5 minutes complaining about "we will have to do" to get to neverland and how its crazy bc its one highway etc.

i thought it was funny that they really seemed ticked at the traffic etc they would have to go through

IMO

[CinderL.]

As far as I know, MJ was a citizen of this country, and he enjoyed the protection provided under the US constitution, as does every other United States citizen. If you ever are called for jury duty, I would hope that you would let them know ahead of time, that these are your feelings.

imo...of course.

Psssst. I think she agrees with you. :wink:

[kellabeck]

Well.
If Aphrodite Jones :w00t: says so, then it must BE so!:w00t:

Hmmm. I remember Aphro hanging off Mark Geragos during Scottie's trial. Yuck!!!!

[Cardinal]

No I just ordered it -

Please PM me after you've read it, to let me know if it's worth reading.

[CinderL.]

I shouldn't laugh, but JVM and Jim something (the inside edition guy) just spent 5 minutes complaining about "we will have to do" to get to neverland and how its crazy bc its one highway etc.

i thought it was funny that they really seemed ticked at the traffic etc they would have to go through

IMO

hehehe. It is going to be a mess. Glad I am not heading north for the 4th. :scared:

[CinderL.]

Ok. Now I get the connection. Joe Jackson is opening a new company with a partner - Marshall Thompson of the Chi Lites. That's why Marshall was with him at the BET Awards.

imo

Yep. He seems to be with him everywhere. :laugh:

[Cardinal]

Ok. Now I get the connection. Joe Jackson is opening a new company with a partner - Marshall Thompson of the Chi Lites. That's why Marshall was with him at the BET Awards.

Totally inapprppriate venue considering it was a tribute to his son.

imo

And you can bet Joe Jackson is going to exploit this to his own advantage in any way he can. IMO

[CinderL.]

I read online somewhere that Paula Abdul is going to maybe work with the So You Think You Can Dance people to do a MJ. night.

[CinderL.]

And you can bet Joe Jackson is going to exploit this to his own advantage in any way he can. IMO

He sure has been trying.

[CinderL.]

Ooops, sorry. I'm at work, and I can blame the boss.
:laugh:

:laugh:.....

[jewel6]

does anyone know if they are still Jehovah's Witnesses?

I beleive the mother is . jmo

[flipflop]

JVM:

His memorial service "could be on the order of a state funeral.":scared:

OMG.

Egads, John F. Kennedy (he was the President of the United States who was assassinated in Dallas Texas in 1963, November FYI) was killed and buried in a few days.

What is wrong with the people in this country? in 2009?


:thumbdown:

People love/loved him. They are fascinated by him. They are heart broken that he is dead. I am one of those people.

Whether he is guilty of the molestation...I honestly don't know. Of course I don't. I wasn't there. Nonetheless, my heart is heavy that he is gone. I can't do anything to change that even if I wanted.

[who_is_it]

:laugh:.....

I have to log out in a few minutes... but I think I know who you are. Have we been in the cottage together?

[who_is_it]

This article mentions the taped conversations where JC's father said that he wanted to bring Michael down.

who_is_it -- do you still have that transcript?

You mean that one?

http://www.usnewslink.com/framedjackson.htm

[emdragon]

I read online somewhere that Paula Abdul is going to maybe work with the So You Think You Can Dance people to do a MJ. night.

No idea about Paula but yes SYTYCD is trying to get the music cleared to do a Michael Jackson tribute show. (Nigel tweets lol)

[CinderL.]

People love/loved him. They are fascinated by him. They are heart broken that he is dead. I am one of those people.

Whether he is guilty of the molestation...I honestly don't know. Of course I don't. I wasn't there. Nonetheless, my heart is heavy that he is gone. I can't do anything to change that even if I wanted.

Just seems over the top for an entertainer. But, that is just my thinking.
A public viewing for goodness sakes. :ohmy:

I wonder where they will put his casket for all of those people to be able to see him? I am really, truly, not meaning to be morbid, but it is really hot here right now.

[CinderL.]

No idea about Paula but yes SYTYCD is trying to get the music cleared to do a Michael Jackson tribute show. (Nigel tweets lol)

Paula tweeted back to him. :laugh:

[CinderL.]

I have to log out in a few minutes... but I think I know who you are. Have we been in the cottage together?

Huh??? I don't think so.

[who_is_it]

Huh??? I don't think so.

Okay, sorry, then I confused you - specially by mentioning "cottage". Sorry.

[TunaMelt]

People love/loved him. They are fascinated by him. They are heart broken that he is dead. I am one of those people.

Whether he is guilty of the molestation...I honestly don't know. Of course I don't. I wasn't there. Nonetheless, my heart is heavy that he is gone. I can't do anything to change that even if I wanted.

I guess you can't.

And that's what's such a mystery to me.

You have his music, he hasn't been around much to see on stage, and he had some really bad associations that are seriously degenerate.

There are so many people in this world who have lived a better life, been more talented in their art, than Michael Jackson.

I will never get it.

But then there has never ever been a celebrity that I knew or thought I knew or dreamed about -- I don't know them so how can I miss them?

Celebrities are just people, not gods, and Michael Jackson wasn't even close.

You're probably a better person than he was.

Celebrate yourself, not some entertainer. He doesn't deserve it.

:mellow:

[CinderL.]

Okay, sorry, then I confused you.

No problem.

[GentleBreeze]

As far as I know, MJ was a citizen of this country, and he enjoyed the protection provided under the US constitution, as does every other United States citizen. If you ever are called for jury duty, I would hope that you would let them know ahead of time, that these are your feelings.

imo...of course.

I have been on a jury five times.

I most assuredly believe in the jury system. MJs jury made the right verdict however the media and the general public did not. They had him guilty before he even had a chance to have a trial.

imo

[CinderL.]

No that's the one I just posted. I thought you had posted the actual transcript of the telephone call. Sorry maybe it wasn't you.

It was posted.

[emdragon]

Nobody but me questioning why they need so much concrete at Neverland?

[CinderL.]

Nobody but me questioning why they need so much concrete at Neverland?

I am. :ohmy:

[flipflop]

Just seems over the top for an entertainer. But, that is just my thinking.
A public viewing for goodness sakes. :ohmy:

I wonder where they will put his casket for all of those people to be able to see him? I am really, truly, not meaning to be morbid, but it is really hot here right now.


Yes, it probably is a little over the top, lol. Maybe ol Joe is going to charge admission. Seriously, though, I don't know about the casket. I can't begin to imagine the size of the crowd.

[Cardinal]

Will do. I have 2 day shipping and I suspect it will be an easy read. :)

I honestly believe that the media and others who believe he was guilty was part of mass hysteria. The word "pedophile" gets to everyone and is quite understandable but I never really believed the public got the real story. Some of the ones who did have the info based their conclusions just based on the fact that children slept at Neverland and it didn't matter what the evidence was. I believe most children when it comes to abuse; I just did not believe the ones involved in this case. I think one of the biggest turning points for me (I did believe he was guilty at the start) was when GA testified and almost verbatim recited statements from JCs settlement and when questioned on the same exact thing again -- was totally inconsistent like he had forgot what he was supposed to say. His brother as well. Also all of the other state's witnesses were former employees who had lost an lawsuit against MJ and had an axe to grind. They were just not credible. JMO

I believed him guilty at the start, too. There were the Chandler allegations, and the payoff.......of course he was guilty, right? Children don't lie about those things, right?

But their parents do, when they have a financial agenda. And parents have a lot of influence over their children.

By the end of the trial, I was apologizing to MJ in my mind, for the things I thought about him. Not only were the allegations not proven for me, I was outraged by the attempted extortion.

[VC2]

Ok. Now I get the connection. Joe Jackson is opening a new company with a partner - Marshall Thompson of the Chi Lites. That's why Marshall was with him at the BET Awards.

Totally inappropriate venue considering it was a tribute to his son.

imo

:ohmy: we agree on something else!!!

[boo]

Just seems over the top for an entertainer. But, that is just my thinking.
A public viewing for goodness sakes. :ohmy:

I wonder where they will put his casket for all of those people to be able to see him? I am really, truly, not meaning to be morbid, but it is really hot here right now.

Yes it is, Cinder and 9 days is a long time before a viewing. I find the whole thing distasteful, disrespectful and probably everything Michael would not have wanted.

I keep hoping Janet steps up to the plate and files a motion to get those kids.

[aproudmom]

omg I can not believe some of the stuff I am hearing on the media..

[CinderL.]

Yes, it probably is a little over the top, lol. Maybe ol Joe is going to charge admission. Seriously, though, I don't know about the casket. I can't begin to imagine the size of the crowd.

I bet he would, if he could. :laugh:

[aproudmom]

Just seems over the top for an entertainer. But, that is just my thinking.
A public viewing for goodness sakes. :ohmy:

I wonder where they will put his casket for all of those people to be able to see him? I am really, truly, not meaning to be morbid, but it is really hot here right now.

9 days? ...

[emdragon]

Yes Nigel contacted Paula Abdul to choreograph it although I don't know why he did not ask Wade Robson to do it especially since he choreographs for the show now and is a personal friend of MJ:

This is Wade Robson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd2tpOveSds

"Nigel Lythgoe didn't wait a day to try to capitalize on the death of the "King of Pop" Michael Jackson. The judge/producer of Fox's So You Think You Can Dance reached out to American Idol judge Paula Abdul via Twitter on Friday, asking her to choreograph an MJ tribute. Before Paula could respond, he left a tweet rallying fans to help get Paula to agree to do the show"

http://www.examiner.com/x-11474-Miami-Reality-TV-Examiner~y2009m6d29-So-You-Think-You-Can-Dance-plans-Michael-Jackson-tribute-show

Honestly I have to say when Nigel first tweeted he simply said they wanted to do it but were having trouble clearing the songs- there was no begging fans to get Paula to do anything at least not when I was on getting tweets- nothing about Paula at all was brought up.

[aproudmom]

I bet he would, if he could. :laugh:

sorry it was not you that said 9 days..so they will have him at Neverland for that long?

[Cardinal]

Yes it is, Cinder and 9 days is a long time before a viewing. I find the whole thing distasteful, disrespectful and probably everything Michael would not have wanted.

I keep hoping Janet steps up to the plate and files a motion to get those kids.

I live in the southeast. Here, in the African-American community, 9 days is a short time before a viewing. :)

But I agree with you, that Janet would likely be a better choice for guardian.

[who_is_it]

No that's the one I just posted. I thought you had posted the actual transcript of the telephone call. Sorry maybe it wasn't you.

I had saved this video in which you find parts of the phone call:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lVUvOLdg50

phone conversation at 1:10
(before introduced as such by a mod)

[vonna]

I have been on a jury five times.

I most assuredly believe in the jury system. MJs jury made the right verdict however the media and the general public did not. They had him guilty before he even had a chance to have a trial.

imo

Repetition does not make it so.

[CinderL.]

Yes it is, Cinder and 9 days is a long time before a viewing. I find the whole thing distasteful, disrespectful and probably everything Michael would not have wanted.

I keep hoping Janet steps up to the plate and files a motion to get those kids.

Really, a guy that wore masks and avoided people as much as he could in the last years, would hardly want people parading past his casket looking at him. Ewwwww.

[CinderL.]

sorry it was not you that said 9 days..so they will have him at Neverland for that long?
I think they meant 9 days from the day he died.

[legalmania]

According to TMC Debbie Rowe is not the biological mother of the children and Michael Jackson is not the biological father and has never legally adopted them. What a legal mess this is going to be.

[VC2]

I believed him guilty at the start, too. There were the Chandler allegations, and the payoff.......of course he was guilty, right? Children don't lie about those things, right?

But their parents do, when they have a financial agenda. And parents have a lot of influence over their children.

By the end of the trial, I was apologizing to MJ in my mind, for the things I thought about him. Not only were the allegations not proven for me, I was outraged by the attempted extortion.

me too which is why i never joined the forum at the start of the trial. I figured he was guilty and rarely have an interest in a celeb trial plus i appreciated his talent but it wasn't my music. I even used to roll my eyes and mute CTV when they talked bout the jackson trial lmao.

I coudln't avoid it all tho and i am a bear on conviction by media so started listening and reading and i think i started posting shortly before the defense started absolutely convinced by then the allegations were false. that Mrs.Arvizo asked an attorney about charging MJ with molestation before the family had even MET HIM said all i needed to hear.

I still thought Chandler might be true but it didn';t take much research to learn the truth of that one either. Francia spoke for itself, no molestation happened and imo that came through by his own statements in court.

IMO

[FallenAngel♥]

Nobody but me questioning why they need so much concrete at Neverland?

well duh you know i am em.

[Cardinal]

According to TMC Debbie Rowe is not the biological mother of the children and Michael Jackson is not the biological father and has never legally adopted them. What a legal mess this is going to be.

Seriously??? Oh my gosh, mess doesn't even come close to describing it.

[CinderL.]

According to TMC Debbie Rowe is not the biological mother of the children and Michael Jackson is not the biological father and has never legally adopted them. What a legal mess this is going to be.

Debbie R. says that isn't true, she says she is the mom. :shrug: But, if she is or isn't, you are right, it is going to be a mess.

[GentleBreeze]

Nobody but me questioning why they need so much concrete at Neverland?

Since a cubic yard of concrete is about 4,000 pounds per yard based on the psi requested that is not much concrete. Probably a slab made for his casket to sit on under a tent maybe or just a small platform for speakers who will be there.

imo

[emdragon]

According to TMC Debbie Rowe is not the biological mother of the children and Michael Jackson is not the biological father and has never legally adopted them. What a legal mess this is going to be.

TMZ just posted they have the BC for Prince and Paris and Michael is listed as the father and Debbie Rowe is listed as the Mother..

[boo]

I love me some Tuna Melt. :wub:

Cardinal, I respect that, too, however Los Angeles is not the southeast and I don't believe Joe's motives have a thing to do with culture or heritage. JMO

[Cardinal]

me too which is why i never joined the forum at the start of the trial. I figured he was guilty and rarely have an interest in a celeb trial plus i appreciated his talent but it wasn't my music. I even used to roll my eyes and mute CTV when they talked bout the jackson trial lmao.

I coudln't avoid it all tho and i am a bear on conviction by media so started listening and reading and i think i started posting shortly before the defense started absolutely convinced by then the allegations were false. that Mrs.Arvizo asked an attorney about charging MJ with molestation before the family had even MET HIM said all i needed to hear.

I still thought Chandler might be true but it didn';t take much research to learn the truth of that one either. Francia spoke for itself, no molestation happened and imo that came through by his own statements in court.

IMO

I wasn't posting here at all then, just following it in the news. But I read everything I could find, and by the end of it, I was convinced he had NOT molested that child. Or the other one.

[VC2]

According to TMC Debbie Rowe is not the biological mother of the children and Michael Jackson is not the biological father and has never legally adopted them. What a legal mess this is going to be.

Not as far as MJ being the dad.

Under california law if you are married to the woman who gave birth to the children you are presumptively and legally the father. There have even been some cases where the couple divorced and the non biological father was ordered to pay child support because of the law.

Legally at the very least there was no reason to adopt the first 2 children, he was their father. Blanket might be messier but i cant imagine ANY court taking him away from his family to be given to someone who was just a surrogate.

IMO

[Cardinal]

I love me some Tuna Melt. :wub:

Cardinal, I respect that, too, however Los Angeles is not the southeast and I don't believe Joe's motives have a thing to do with culture or heritage. JMO

Well if we're talking about Joe's motives, that's a whole different thing! No, his only motives are about turning this to his advantage, IMO.

[vonna]

Debbie R. says that isn't true, she says she is the mom. :shrug: But, if she is or isn't, you are right, it is going to be a mess.


There is no evidence to suggest that Michael wasn't a loving father and since it is the duty of a judge to do what's best for the children - I believe that they will not be separated but permitted to grow up together. That is as it should be. I just hope that it is not in close proximity to Joe.

[aproudmom]

Michael Jackson Conspiracy

He was the pop icon the media loved to hate. Tremendously wealthy, inarguably eccentric, and one of the most famous people in the world, Michael Jackson was the unenviable target of constant public humiliation. The media poked fun at his skin, his features, his sexuality, and his lifestyle.Here, seasoned crime reporter Aphrodite Jones condemns the media for perpetuating hateful rumors and innuendoes, recounting just the sordid details, and reporting only the most despicable accusations and grisly charges made against Michael Jackson during his criminal trial. They had built a highly profitable industry around the superstar's "freaky life" and banked on his conviction. And, it turns out, they got it all wrong.In their efforts to make money and win ratings, the media missed the truth. It wasn't until after the "not guilty" verdict that Jones had the insight and courage to admit her own unintentional role in the frenzy surrounding the shocking testimony, high drama, and countless celebrities in Michael Jackson's high-profile criminal trial. Here, she makes amends with what is not only a truthful, well-documented chronicle of the entire trial but a powerful indictment against the media for conspiring to distort, dehumanize, and destroy Michael Jackson. Jones argues convincingly that the case against Jackson amounted to nothing more than a media-made, tax-paid scandal, and she makes an impassioned call to action for the public-at-large to think critically, question the integrity, and demand the truth in "the news".

http://www.amazon.com/Michael-Jackson-Conspiracy-Aphrodite-Jones/dp/0979549809

you ordered it..let me know if it is any good or worth reading please..I figured everything would be hard to get that had to do with him..

[kellabeck]

Custody of the children should be awarded based on their best interests and their wishes as well as whatever provisions were made for a legal guardian. I hope the court appoints guardians ad litem so that they get the best outcome.

Regardless of the source of the DNA, Debbie Rowe gave birth, therefore, she is the "mother." She was married to Michael Jackson at the time however phony that was, therefore, he was the father, in the eyes of the law.

All this discussion of the parentage of the parents is not productive! They were Jackson's children and they have lost their only parent. I wish people would act in their best interests.

[aproudmom]

Well if we're talking about Joe's motives, that's a whole different thing! No, his only motives are about turning this to his advantage, IMO.

maybe he is pizzed he was left out of the will:wink:

[CinderL.]

There is no evidence to suggest that Michael wasn't a loving father and since it is the duty of a judge to do what's best for the children - I believe that they will not be separated but permitted to grow up together. That is as it should be. I just hope that it is not in close proximity to Joe.

I agree about the kids. I also agree about Joe. I think he will go back to Vegas and work on his great new project. I hope.

[TunaMelt]

According to TMC Debbie Rowe is not the biological mother of the children and Michael Jackson is not the biological father and has never legally adopted them. What a legal mess this is going to be.

She's not the mother?:scared:

Maybe I'm not getting this: I thought she carried these kids until birth?

:scared:

[R~O~S]

Nobody but me questioning why they need so much concrete at Neverland?

You don't think they'd bury him there and not make sure someone couldn't dig him up without it being VERY difficult and time consuming, do you?

I'd imagine a concrete box lining the grave about two feet thick with metal reinforcement.

[legalmania]

I have been on a jury five times.

I most assuredly believe in the jury system. MJs jury made the right verdict however the media and the general public did not. They had him guilty before he even had a chance to have a trial.

imo

I've been on a jury 5 times also GB, there were two jury members in MJs trial who after the trial changed their minds and said they thought he was guilty and felt pressured into saying he was innocent, these were the two jurors who said there wasn't enough evidence to convict him. I think that their neighbors probably got to them.

[who_is_it]

<snipped>


part of the extorsion phone call by Evan Chandler which Athena remembered:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lVUvOLdg50

phone conversation at 1:10
(before introduced as such by a mod)

Chandler saying:
"This man is going to be humiliated beyond belief. He will not going to believe what is going to happen to him, beyond his worst nightmares. He will not sell one more record."

But you have to LISTEN to the evil voice!!!

[Cardinal]

maybe he is pizzed he was left out of the will:wink:

I hope he was, and I hope he is!!

[TunaMelt]

Custody of the children should be awarded based on their best interests and their wishes as well as whatever provisions were made for a legal guardian. I hope the court appoints guardians ad litem so that they get the best outcome.

Regardless of the source of the DNA, Debbie Rowe gave birth, therefore, she is the "mother." She was married to Michael Jackson at the time however phony that was, therefore, he was the father, in the eyes of the law.

All this discussion of the parentage of the parents is not productive! They were Jackson's children and they have lost their only parent. I wish people would act in their best interests.

Yeah. I agree. I'm confused I guess. They are his kids, he raised them. They're his. And she gave birth to them, so she's the mother, right?
:confused:

This sperm donor stuff makes it sound like the children were hatched.

[Cardinal]

part of the extorsion phone call by Evan Chandler Athena remembered:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lVUvOLdg50

phone conversation at 1:10
(before introduced as such by a mod)

saying:
"This man is going to be humiliated beyond belief. He will not going to believe what is going to happen to him, beyond his worst nightmares. He will not sell one more record."

But you have to LISTEN to the evil voice!!!

I will listen to it, but it isn't necessary. He came through loud and clear in the transcription. I hope Jordan will go through with his court case, for his own sake. And maybe, something else will come of it.

ETA: I listened to it. And I believe there is a special He!! for people who pursue their own agendas by destroying someone else.

[4Life]

Was anyone just watching ET news? They were showing parts of that interview Michael did where he talked about Joe J. Michael said when he was a kid he use to regurgitate everytime Joe (dad) came into the room. Joe was interviewed sometime after that and he was asked about what Michael said. Joe said "I regurgitated all the way to the bank"

[who_is_it]

I've been on a jury 5 times also GB, there were two jury members in MJs trial who after the trial changed their minds and said they thought he was guilty and felt pressured into saying he was innocent, these were the two jurors who said there wasn't enough evidence to convict him. I think that their neighbors probably got to them.

Eleanore Cook and Ray Hultman -- both shopping for a book deal.

[aproudmom]

Custody of the children should be awarded based on their best interests and their wishes as well as whatever provisions were made for a legal guardian. I hope the court appoints guardians ad litem so that they get the best outcome.

Regardless of the source of the DNA, Debbie Rowe gave birth, therefore, she is the "mother." She was married to Michael Jackson at the time however phony that was, therefore, he was the father, in the eyes of the law.

All this discussion of the parentage of the parents is not productive! They were Jackson's children and they have lost their only parent. I wish people would act in their best interests.

:ohmy:we agree on something for once J/K:tonguewag:
that is why I said I could not believe what I was hearing on JVM and TMZ actually the oldest a judge would ask not that he would rule just on what the child or children want but it is common for judges to ask a child who is at that age..as far as DR I don't call her a mother but by law she is..it is just sad these kids will hear all of this..

[vonna]

Was anyone just watching ET news? The were showing parts of that interview Michael where he talked about Joe J. Michael said when he was a kid he use to regurgitate everytime Joe (dad) came into the room. Joe was interviewed sometime after that and he was asked about what Michael said. Joe said "I regurgitated all the way to the bank"

That was probably the most honest moment of his entire life.

[TunaMelt]

I've been on a jury 5 times also GB, there were two jury members in MJs trial who after the trial changed their minds and said they thought he was guilty and felt pressured into saying he was innocent, these were the two jurors who said there wasn't enough evidence to convict him. I think that their neighbors probably got to them.

Agree.

Like Simpson's murder trial, the jurors were pressured, and the jury couldn't go home if they delivered a guilty verdict.

So..........just saying, it's a good system, but it's only as good as the people who take part in it.

The Simpson jury, they didn't play straight. They were in love with him and Johnny Cochran. And the Jackson jury: what you said.

It's really too bad, more than too bad. It's criminal.
:thumbdown:

[CinderL.]

Was anyone just watching ET news? The were showing parts of that interview Michael where he talked about Joe J. Michael said when he was a kid he use to regurgitate everytime Joe (dad) came into the room. Joe was interviewed sometime after that and he was asked about what Michael said. Joe said "I regurgitated all the way to the bank"

He is a pretty sick old man.

[Mr. Moto2]

You mean that one?

http://www.usnewslink.com/framedjackson.htm

I read the court document at the bottom of the article. Jordan gave a pretty detailed description of what he claimed happened. Do you think he was coached, and the story was cooked up?

[kellabeck]

Evan Chandler was angry with how the relationship with Jackson had interfered in his family. According to Jordy, Michael had been trying to poison the boy against his parents who had been dealing amicably with each other before Jackson came into the picture. While it's not admirable, it's understandable how angry he was.

But those feelings have nothing to do with the credibility of the reports his son gave and the facts surrounding them.

IMO it is just ludicrous to think that the accusations were just a fabrication based on nothing when in fact Jackson was sleeping every night with his son and trying to alienate him from his parents and the mother and father from each other.

Stacy Brown is on the phone with JVM. I suggest you read THE MAN BEHIND THE MASK.

[CinderL.]

Nancy is on. Let's see how much she gets right tonight. :laugh:

:laugh: She cracks me up.

[legalmania]

She's not the mother?:scared:

Maybe I'm not getting this: I thought she carried these kids until birth?

:scared:


She was just a surrogate, which she was paid for, they were not her eggs or his sperm.

[CinderL.]

She was just a surrogate, which she was paid for, they were not her eggs or his sperm.

Debbie R. has said that isn't true. But, as has been said, It doesn't matter. Well, unless maybe she decides she wants custody. Would it matter then? I am getting :confused:

[sunstar]

omg I can not believe some of the stuff I am hearing on the media..

Hi! I just turned on Nancy Grace's show and she's reporting about MJ not being the bio dad, that a sperm donor was used, and DR isn't the bio mom. :scared: I heard MJ say he had a surrogate for Blanket but I thought DR was the other two's mother. :confused:

[jewel6]

She was just a surrogate, which she was paid for, they were not her eggs or his sperm.

I agree! She has signed them over to michael. and thats that. jmo

[CinderL.]

I can't listen to her but I do admire her work on behalf of the children.

I admire that too.....but, she is so over the top. Can you imagine a show Geraldo & Nance Grace. :laugh: At least she hasn't said he woke up dead yet. :laugh:

[who_is_it]

What I find kind of funny, though, is that the hoax "Jordan Chandler admitted he lied" is all over the web if you don't google the news but google the web for "Jordan Chandler" and "Jackson".

Media outlets (specially trashy outlets to get a story) were desperately searching for him but they can't find him.

This hoax has become an appeal to his conscience.

Sadly I believe Jordy doesn't know what was true and untrue anymore after he was brain-washed by Evil Chandler and psychiatrists for years.

[sunstar]

Nancy is on. Let's see how much she gets right tonight. :laugh:

:laugh: She cracks me up.

At this point I wouldn't know if Nancy got it right or not since I've been at work all day and haven't a clue what the latest is! :laugh:

[CinderL.]

My favorite Nancyism was that Anna N. Smith died of postmortem depression. :lol:

[who_is_it]

My favorite Nancyism was that Anna N. Smith died of postmortem depression. :lol:

She said this?

LMAO

[legalmania]

I agree! She has signed them over to michael. and thats that. jmo

Well this is from TMZ that I heard this but they said Michael never legally adopted those kids. So this could end up being a real big mess.

[sunstar]

MJ's former dermatologist, Dr. K, is the father of the first two kids. Per reporter talking with Nancy. :scared: This is getting really scary and confusing!!

[CinderL.]

At this point I wouldn't know if Nancy got it right or not since I've been at work all day and haven't a clue what the latest is! :laugh: Really at this point, she could make a mistake, and get it right.
Nothing going on except for the public viewing and service at Neverland. I almost typed Graceland.

[Tracian]

NG covering about the kids....

Blanket's BC says mother NONE?

strange.

[CinderL.]

She said this?

LMAO

Yes. Opps. :laugh:

[CinderL.]

NG covering about the kids....

Blanket's BC says mother NONE?

strange.

That is strange, how can you have no mother. Maybe he was hatched. :confused:

[sunstar]

Really at this point, she could make a mistake, and get it right.
Nothing going on except for the public viewing and service at Neverland. I almost typed Graceland.

I heard that about Neverland ~ motorcade and all. I didn't think there was anything still there except for the house?

[who_is_it]

"Promoter: Tribute shows for Jackson likely"
(AP news)

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jMN6g9A2_7K4cM_l9-aYaYJIP6qQD9956QT83

[aproudmom]

I will listen to it, but it isn't necessary. He came through loud and clear in the transcription. I hope Jordan will go through with his court case, for his own sake. And maybe, something else will come of it.

ETA: I listened to it. And I believe there is a special He!! for people who pursue their own agendas by destroying someone else.

when I read it I thought he sounded jealous or that was the way I took the written transcript..if it is the same one I read the other night..

[CinderL.]

MJ's former dermatologist, Dr. K, is the father of the first two kids. Per reporter talking with Nancy. :scared: This is getting really scary and confusing!!

Someone said, that Debbie R. said, that the baby was Jewish.
But, the Dr. is saying NO COMMENT.

[sunstar]

That is strange, how can you have no mother. Maybe he was hatched. :confused:

I'm sorry but I think this case is the perfect example of modern medicine going too far. The poor children. :sad: MOO

[legalmania]

It doesn't matter.

In California the is a presumption of parentage, legal adoption or not. As far as the California courts are concerned, Michael Jackson IS the father of the children. The Court will not split up the three children and since Debbie Rowe has no connection whatsoever to the third child and, she's been a non-interested and non-involved parent with the first two, I would bet that guardianship will remain with Mrs. Jackson.

It's all about the best interests of the children.

I remember reading a case in California a few years back that the parents legally adopted a child and the mother who gave the child up for adoption didn't tell the biological father and they took the kid away from the adoptive parents after the kid who was 2 years old and gave her to the father. It was awful the kid was screaming for the only parents she knew.

[CinderL.]

I remember reading a case in California a few years back that the parents legally adopted a child and the mother who gave the child up for adoption didn't tell the biological father and they took the kid away from the adoptive parents after the kid who was 2 years old and gave her to the father. It was awful the kid was screaming for the only parents she knew.

I think that happens a lot.

[CinderL.]

I'm sorry but I think this case is the perfect example of modern medicine going too far. The poor children. :sad: MOO


It sure brings up legal issues.

Ha, Debbie R. is now a dental assistant re: Nancy G. :laugh:

[who_is_it]

It doesn't matter.

In California the is a presumption of parentage, legal adoption or not. As far as the California courts are concerned, Michael Jackson IS the father of the children. The Court will not split up the three children and since Debbie Rowe has no connection whatsoever to the third child and, she's been a non-interested and non-involved parent with the first two, I would bet that guardianship will remain with Mrs. Jackson.

It's all about the best interests of the children.

Hey,
this was maybe when YOU've seen him in the studio:

AP Exclusive: Jackson wrapped video before death
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jRg37cgg0-mEAX5cdx48aMi2calgD994JQ480

[boo]

I heard that about Neverland ~ motorcade and all. I didn't think there was anything still there except for the house?

There's not, Sunstar. The place looks terrible except for the grounds directly surrounding the home. The landscaping has all grown over and because we are in a drought, it looks like it hasn't been watered in years. It's 22+ acres dead and dried up. Even the railroad tracks have been removed.

That's what I don't get. Even IF MJ still had fond memories of the place (which he doesn't), it's not even remotely close to the place it once was. I think Joe has lost his mind and even worse, I don't think he cares how he appears to the public. MOO

[My Gal Sal]

I am. :ohmy:

Yeah me too... I thought about the concrete being delivered. I immediately thought it would be used to cover the grave. But this is just my opinion.

[CinderL.]

All you have to remember is "presumed parentage".

Debbie Rowe and Michael Jackson have been presumed to be the parent of Prince Michael for 12 years and Paris for 11 years.

Michael Jackson has been the presumed parent of "Blanket" for 7 years. There is no mother, not even listed on the birth certificate.

When you keep "presumed parentage" in this case in mind, the DNA doesn't matter.

Except the one presumed parent is dead now. So Debbie is the Presumed living parent. So she could get the children. Right?

[legalmania]

"Promoter: Tribute shows for Jackson likely"
(AP news)

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jMN6g9A2_7K4cM_l9-aYaYJIP6qQD9956QT83

He could do well with this if he does it in good taste and it's exciting.

[tmw]

Does anyone have the exact address for Neverland Ranch?? I wanted to google/satelite it.


NG needs to stop just plain out lying for sensationalism. SHe's loosing crediblity for me.

[sunstar]

It sure brings up legal issues.

Ha, Debbie R. is now a dental assistant re: Nancy G. :laugh:

I'm not a fan of sperm donors and surrogate mothers anyway but this just confirms what can go wrong when the person who is raising the kids dies and hasn't legally adopted them. Who do they really belong to? :sad: MOO

[CinderL.]

There's not, Sunstar. The place looks terrible except for the grounds directly surrounding the home. The landscaping has all grown over and because we are in a drought, it looks like it hasn't been watered in years. It's 22+ acres dead and dried up. Even the railroad tracks have been removed.

That's what I don't get. Even IF MJ still had fond memories of the place (which he doesn't), it's not even remotely close to the place it once was. I think Joe has lost his mind and even worse, I don't think he cares how he appears to the public. MOO

I think the co-owner has big plans for Neverland.

[sunstar]

There's not, Sunstar. The place looks terrible except for the grounds directly surrounding the home. The landscaping has all grown over and because we are in a drought, it looks like it hasn't been watered in years. It's 22+ acres dead and dried up. Even the railroad tracks have been removed.

That's what I don't get. Even IF MJ still had fond memories of the place (which he doesn't), it's not even remotely close to the place it once was. I think Joe has lost his mind and even worse, I don't think he cares how he appears to the public. MOO

It was Joe's idea to have this memorial/funeral (sorry I'm not sure which it is) there? I've heard the same things you just posted, that nothing Michael loved about the place is still there. I didn't even think his family could have access to it? :confused:

[sunstar]

I think the co-owner has big plans for Neverland.

Yes, I agree. Anything to make MONEY. :rolleyes: MOO

[CinderL.]

Does anyone have the exact address for Neverland Ranch?? I wanted to google/satelite it.


NG needs to stop just plain out lying for sensationalism. SHe's loosing crediblity for me.

I saw it earlier. You can find in on Google. Fox something Rd.

NG lost credibility for me a long time ago.

[legalmania]

Except the one presumed parent is dead now. So Debbie is the Presumed living parent. So she could get the children. Right?

It's very complicated how much authority does she have as a surrogate parent? She got paid for her end of the contract. Now if the real biological parents come forward this could set precedents as far as what rights a parent has after donating their eggs or sperm?

[SDMermaid]

I have her on ignore so I don't know what you are talking about nor did I say she had selective hearing I was telling the poster don't try to waste their time trying to change the mind of a MJ defender because they will not hear it in their eyes MJ can't do no wrong he is perfect.:rolleyes:


I think this post is very unfair. Athena has a different opinion than you, and there is nothing wrong with that. She has a right to express it the same as you, and should'nt have to deal with posts like this for it.

IMO

[CinderL.]

ONLY if it's in the best interest of the children (the first two). What happens to the third one then?

Would it be in the best interest of the children to break them up, and place the two older ones with a woman they barely know?

Well, I sure don't think so. Who knows if Debbie R. would even want them. But, $$$$ talks. We'll see on July 6. She has been invited by ??? to be at the hearing, I heard.

[boo]

Does anyone have the exact address for Neverland Ranch?? I wanted to google/satelite it.


NG needs to stop just plain out lying for sensationalism. SHe's loosing crediblity for me.

5225 Figueroa Mountain Rd, Los Olivos, CA 93441

[tmw]

I saw it earlier. You can find in on Google. Fox something Rd.

NG lost credibility for me a long time ago.

Thanks, I'll look!

She and her staff do NOT do their homework!! SHe's getting as bad as Greta on that.

Thank you for responding. I'm usually ignored! LOL

[VC2]

There is no evidence to suggest that Michael wasn't a loving father and since it is the duty of a judge to do what's best for the children - I believe that they will not be separated but permitted to grow up together. That is as it should be. I just hope that it is not in close proximity to Joe.

I am really surprised you said that. I agree completely with you but if i believed as you do about the trial etc. i am not sure i would suggest there was no evidence he wasn't a loving father.

i do think he was a very loving father, he was different, he probably spoilt them completely :D and Grace was the balancer. i might be wrong about the spoiling tho, i think he was a friend of theirs in spirit as well as a doting dad but not always a pushover.

My own opinion of MJ with kids including his own is that he became their age when alone with them or to have fun, but he was not nuts letting them do anything they wanted. I have never thought he was a child as in nothing but, yet he had an innocence and love of kids that came from his own lack of childhood.

Unfortunately it is hard to describe.

The closest i can come is from the flower power commune types in the 60's. all peace and love, the body is beautiful (not something i think mj believed but as an eg), being nudists was back to nature with your "family" which often included many other adults and kids etc. Eat organically and love each other and save the world.

Lots of things we could call totally inappropriate or behavior of a pedophile but most of us realise they were not. Deluded perhaps but not anything worse.

IMO

[SDMermaid]

That's ok because you weren't being civil to me either so you are on my ignore. Life goes on!


Thank you; it's OK. I don't see those posts because that poster is on ignore. Debates are great but IMO should be civil and respectful.

[CinderL.]

It's very complicated how much authority does she have as a surrogate parent? She got paid for her end of the contract. Now if the real biological parents come forward this could set precedents as far as what rights a parent has after donating their eggs or sperm?

That would sure slow down business at the sperm banks, I would think.:ohmy:

[tmw]

5225 Figueroa Mountain Rd, Los Olivos, CA 93441


THANK you Boo! You're great!

[SDMermaid]

I beat they would if he was alive!


I wonder how many of these vigorous supporters would permit their sons to sleep over?

[legalmania]

Yes that is sooo sad. Years ago only the biological mother had to put a baby up for adoption. Laws now specify that the bio father must be located, told and agree before an adoption can be made final. Apparently that wasn't done. Was the adoption final or "conditional". I have a girlfriend who did a "conditional" adoption meaning that the child was placed in her home for adoption but they had not been able to locate the father so there was a chance he would seek custody. They did locate the father and the adoption was finalized after the bio father agreed to the adoption.

I don't know what Michael did I'm sure his attorneys told him he couldn't just keep the children with no legal papers. I just heard it on TMZ they said that Michael didn't legally adopt them. Which TMZ is becoming a reliable source of information.

[GentleBreeze]

Custody of the children should be awarded based on their best interests and their wishes as well as whatever provisions were made for a legal guardian. I hope the court appoints guardians ad litem so that they get the best outcome.

Regardless of the source of the DNA, Debbie Rowe gave birth, therefore, she is the "mother." She was married to Michael Jackson at the time however phony that was, therefore, he was the father, in the eyes of the law.

All this discussion of the parentage of the parents is not productive! They were Jackson's children and they have lost their only parent. I wish people would act in their best interests.

She has not been in these children's lives. She may be granted visitation rights but she will not gain custody of the two children imo.

A Judge will place them with a person whom they have had a personal ongoing relationship with and that is not Rowe. The Jackson family is the family of all three children. I have no doubt that the two oldest children have already voiced their concerns and wants to live with members of the Jackson family only.

A Judge will also not separate these three children especially when there will be many Jackson members wanting and willing to raise them, imo.

If it is true that Michael has left a part of his Estate to his mother then she has no ulterior motives to gain the children hoping they are cash cows. She will have plenty of her own money.


imo

[CinderL.]

Thanks, I'll look!

She and her staff do NOT do their homework!! SHe's getting as bad as Greta on that.

Thank you for responding. I'm usually ignored! LOL

I know the feeling. :laugh: Look up....Boo posted it for you.

[Tracian]

Question:

Why wouldn't MJ use his own sperm to create children?

[Unperson1984]

It doesn't matter.

In California the is a presumption of parentage, legal adoption or not. As far as the California courts are concerned, Michael Jackson IS the father of the children. The Court will not split up the three children and since Debbie Rowe has no connection whatsoever to the third child and, she's been a non-interested and non-involved parent with the first two, I would bet that guardianship will remain with Mrs. Jackson.

It's all about the best interests of the children.

He is the legal father of the two children born to Rowe during their marriage. If he never adopted the youngest, there could be problems.

[CinderL.]

Question:

Why wouldn't MJ use his own sperm to create children?

There has been some debate about that today. Some say the Vitaligo, and some say his heritage, and some say he didn't want any of his kids to look like Joe. :confused:

[sunstar]

I simply cannot believe with the boatload of handlers..lawyers and advisors..that they overlooked the most important thing pertaining to adoption ..I was under the impression that Debbie Rowe was the bio mom..so presumptions are natural...however IF She was mearly the incubator for growing these kids..it would explain her lack of maternal instincts..and bio-connection to them...

It does seem that the Jackson Machine worried more about "Confidentiality" and "Secrets" than did about following the law when it comes to things like this...Those kids will know all this (contraversey) now..and all the questions...and many grownups ( youngsters too) do question their roots..and want to know their parentage...Even tho they loved their dad..it doesnt stop the desire to know one's roots of being...Once again..this whole story has become so diverse and sordid..I am very disgusted really ( as an adoptee I understand the whole thing..and the importance of how it is handled).

I do think if Debbie Rowe comes forward to claim custody ( doubt it tho),
I would think that a DNA test would be demanded to prove her rights..Presumption is at question here..Is there a "Statute of Limitations"?

LMS:huh:
With so many little children who are in orphanages and need homes, I just can't see creating them from test tubes, especially if neither the sperm donor or egg donor are going to raise the children. Now I'm wondering if the "real" mother & father have any standing in court? :confused:

[legalmania]

All you have to remember is "presumed parentage".

Debbie Rowe and Michael Jackson have been presumed to be the parent of Prince Michael for 12 years and Paris for 11 years.

Michael Jackson has been the presumed parent of "Blanket" for 7 years. There is no mother, not even listed on the birth certificate.

When you keep "presumed parentage" in this case in mind, the DNA doesn't matter.

Let's say that your relative leaves their kid with you who is two, and they leave them for 8 years, you can't just keep the kid under " presumed parentage" you have to get some kind of legal guardianship. The legal parent can claim that child at anytime unless you have some kind of legal court documents. You have rights to the child under abandonment laws, but it has to be done through the courts.

[CinderL.]

Already resolved. Regardless of DNA -- both children are legally theirs and adoption was not necessary.

Well, it might have been resolved here :wink:, but wait until people start going to court. :laugh:

[Ice Cycle]

I don't know what Michael did I'm sure his attorneys told him he couldn't just keep the children with no legal papers. I just heard it on TMZ they said that Michael didn't legally adopt them. Which TMZ is becoming a reliable source of information.

Something is wrong there as their is no way he would go on raising them if he thought their was a chance of loosing them. Makes me wonder if he is not actually the bio Dad.

[vonna]

I am really surprised you said that. I agree completely with you but if i believed as you do about the trial etc. i am not sure i would suggest there was no evidence he wasn't a loving father.

i do think he was a very loving father, he was different, he probably spoilt them completely :D and Grace was the balancer. i might be wrong about the spoiling tho, i think he was a friend of theirs in spirit as well as a doting dad but not always a pushover.

My own opinion of MJ with kids including his own is that he became their age when alone with them or to have fun, but he was not nuts letting them do anything they wanted. I have never thought he was a child as in nothing but, yet he had an innocence and love of kids that came from his own lack of childhood.

Unfortunately it is hard to describe.

The closest i can come is from the flower power commune types in the 60's. all peace and love, the body is beautiful (not something i think mj believed but as an eg), being nudists was back to nature with your "family" which often included many other adults and kids etc. Eat organically and love each other and save the world.

Lots of things we could call totally inappropriate or behavior of a pedophile but most of us realise they were not. Deluded perhaps but not anything worse.

IMO

If you are surprised that I think MJ was guilty but state there is no evidence to suggest he wasn't a loving father - then you didn't credit me with being objective.

[SDMermaid]

If these tapes where true then MJ would have had a case against the boy's father for blackmail. These tapes don't even exists and if they did then it doesn't make sense to pay out the family $25 million for lying!


You mean that one?

http://www.usnewslink.com/framedjackson.htm

[GentleBreeze]

Evan Chandler was angry with MJ because he wouldn't help him get a business deal going -- VERY angry and vowed to bring Michael down -- what better way than to use his son to accuse MJ of molestation - one of the most heinous crimes. JMO

I also hope you realize that book was written by Bob Jones, a hostile, former employee who was fired. He also wound up changing his testimony and hurt the state's case. Not much I don't know about this case. I think I shoud write a book :tonguewag:

Didn't the secretary that worked for Evan Chandler say that Jordy was coached by his dad?

imo

[CinderL.]

Re: 3rd child: According to the Legal Analsysts they all said that if it was not questioned within 2 years of birth -- the issue is moot.

That would be good. Unless, Debbie R. wants them. :scared:

[Unperson1984]

"Jewish" is a religion, not a race.

So if Debbie really said that, it shows that she is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Thank you. It greatly annoys me when people imply being Jewish is a race distinction. It would be like saying Catholics are a separate race.

There are only three races.

[Tracian]

There has been some debate about that today. Some say the Vitaligo, and some say his heritage, and some say he didn't want any of his kids to look like Joe. :confused:


At risk of getting bashed, it seems that the children do not have any African American genealogy, has this been discussed?

[RootBeer]

anyone watching cnn? they are going to have a nurse on who says mj asked her to inject him with meds and she said no, go to the hospital.

[who_is_it]

No it was Rothman's secretary -- his partner in crime.

Her name is Geraldine Hughes.

[GentleBreeze]

Something is wrong there as their is no way he would go on raising them if he thought their was a chance of loosing them. Makes me wonder if he is not actually the bio Dad.

Debbie Rowe did not want these kids and he knew it.

Evidently the surrogate mother of the youngest boy didn't want him either.

After they are two years old he doesn't have to worry about losing them. In California he is the legally recognized father of all these children who are now 12, 11 and 7.

The Judge will know they are his children. One doesn't leave millions to just any children. I am sure in his Will he refers to them as his children and next of kin.

imo

[Tracian]

Thank you. It greatly annoys me when people imply being Jewish is a race distinction. It would be like saying Catholics are a separate race.

There are only three races.

It can be an ethnicity.

[CinderL.]

At risk of getting bashed, it seems that the children do not have any African American genealogy, has this been discussed?

I don't remember if that was brought up or not, well, it sort of was, because some said that MJ wanted to be white, so made sure his kids were. :shrug: I am more inclined to go with him not wanting his kids to
inherit the vitiligo. It is in my husbands family and it is not pretty. A bad disease.

[VC2]

totally O/T but i just had the most amazing dinner..i used good steak and i was afraid of ruining it but omg.

http://www.recipezaar.com/garlic-mustard-steak-salad-369695?scaleto=4 in the heat of summer this has to be one of the best ever, and i am not one for salads much anyway

[Unperson1984]

Re: 3rd child: According to the Legal Analsysts they all said that if it was not questioned within 2 years of birth -- the issue is moot.


That is an incorrect interpretation of California law. Parentage is subject to a two year challenge, however death of the custodial parent reopens the question of custody.

Blanket has a birth mother somewhere. Hopefully she'll stay quiet, but people become very strange when money is involved.

[GentleBreeze]

No it was Rothman's secretary -- his partner in crime.

Oh Ok. Thanks for refreshing my memory.

imo

[who_is_it]

One of the British trash sources, The Mirror, has partially changed its line.

They digged out the old Terry George story, dismissed by himself. But today they quoted Mesereau... and the funniest thing is:

That Sneddon (!!!) is allegedly sad about Michael's death! They quoted him!
:biggrinjester:

The article isn't worth to read... (trash) and for sure again somehow against Michael, mentioning Michael would have mocked Sneddon by his song "Dom Sheldon".

[SDMermaid]

And never in that tape does it says I'm framing MJ for the false report of molesting my son. I want to hear the whole tape before making up my mind.

I had saved this video in which you find parts of the phone call:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lVUvOLdg50

phone conversation at 1:10
(before introduced as such by a mod)

[Ice Cycle]

Debbie Rowe did not want these kids and he knew it.

Evidently the surrogate mother of the youngest boy didn't want him either.

After they are two years old he doesn't have to worry about losing them. In California he is the legally recognized father of all these children who are now 12, 11 and 7.

The Judge will know they are his children. One doesn't leave millions to just any children. I am sure in his Will he refers to them as his children and next of kin.

imo

Yes but why not make it legal just in case, especially with all the legal troubles he was having. Has it been said for CERTAIN that it was not his sperm?

[CinderL.]

totally O/T but i just had the most amazing dinner..i used good steak and i was afraid of ruining it but omg.

http://www.recipezaar.com/garlic-mustard-steak-salad-369695?scaleto=4 in the heat of summer this has to be one of the best ever, and i am not one for salads much anyway

Yum. I am hungry.:laugh:

[Not Telling]

Donny Osmond had the same childhood-performing while the rest of us were swimming at the beach, having females throw under ware at him on stage etc. and yet you don't see him behaving like a pre-teen and sleeping with 12yr olds (no matter if it was innocent or not). or any of the other odd behavior Michael had.

I have a huge problem with the "he didn't have a childhood" excuse. The "my father beat me and was a *******" that excuse I could buy.

People are individuals and react differently to situations... Not everyone has the same coping skills... jmo

[Tracian]

I don't remember if that was brought up or not, well, it sort of was, because some said that MJ wanted to be white, so made sure his kids were. :shrug: I am more inclined to go with him not wanting his kids to
inherit the vitiligo. It is in my husbands family and it is not pretty. A bad disease.


I just watched 'Living with MJ' last night on Dateline. MJ was very adamant that the children were his sperm.

He was also very clear about how Joe treated him and his siblings.

[sunstar]

Debbie Rowe was a surrogate. CA courts recognize it and the real mother and father wouldn't know anyway - because it was done with anonymous donor eggs and donor.

Then why is Nancy reporting that this doctor (dermatologist) is the bio dad of the first two kids? This is where I'm confused! :confused:

[SDMermaid]

I just never understood why someone that was teased about his face would make his face even more unattractive. He just really started to look creepy like in the last 5 yrs.


Really, a guy that wore masks and avoided people as much as he could in the last years, would hardly want people parading past his casket looking at him. Ewwwww.

[sunstar]

I just watched 'Living with MJ' last night on Dateline. MJ was very adamant that the children were his sperm.

He was also very clear about how Joe treated him and his siblings.

I've watched that a couple of times too and heard him say the same thing. MOO

[CinderL.]

I just watched 'Living with MJ' last night on Dateline. MJ was very adamant that the children were his sperm.

He was also very clear about how Joe treated him and his siblings.
I saw that too. Is there more of that interview? Or was that the whole thing?

[magnolia]

I just watched 'Living with MJ' last night on Dateline. MJ was very adamant that the children were his sperm.He was also very clear about how Joe treated him and his siblings.

Bolding is mine.

If that's what he said, it means he's a liar. Wonder what else he lied about???

(I have heard him say they are HIS children, which is true. I guess it depends on how the question was asked and answered.)

[Tracian]

I saw that too. Is there more of that interview? Or was that the whole thing?


I think there is more, they only showed an hour last night.

[CinderL.]

Then why is Nancy reporting that this doctor (dermatologist) is the bio dad of the first two kids? This is where I'm confused! :confused:

Because NG always gets things wrong. :laugh: She doesn't know anymore than anyone else does.

[vonna]

Question:

Why wouldn't MJ use his own sperm to create children?

Because he didn't want them to be black.

[Tracian]

Bolding is mine.

If that's what he said, it means he's a liar. Wonder what else he lied about???

(I have heard him say they are HIS children, which is true. I guess it depends on how the question was asked and answered.)


That is exactly what he said. In a shy way he explained it was his sperm, and that they are his children.

[Unperson1984]

Let's say that your relative leaves their kid with you who is two, and they leave them for 8 years, you can't just keep the kid under " presumed parentage" you have to get some kind of legal guardianship. The legal parent can claim that child at anytime unless you have some kind of legal court documents. You have rights to the child under abandonment laws, but it has to be done through the courts.

The older two children were born to a married couple. The law presumes that children born to a married couple are the children of said couple. They are the legal children of that married couple, no other legal action is required.

[RootBeer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090701/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_drugs

[sunstar]

Because NG always gets things wrong. :laugh: She doesn't know anymore than anyone else does.

I guess the reporter who was talking to her didn't know either! :biggrin: MOO

[CinderL.]

I am really having a problem with this public viewing deal. Geez. He would have hated that. He hid behind a mask for goodness sakes. I think it is horrible.

[VC2]

Question:

Why wouldn't MJ use his own sperm to create children?

vitiligo is a genetic disease and is horrible. Apart from the disfigurement it causes, it is an auto immune disease which makes you more likely to be unable to fight off colds and regular stuff since your immune system is compromised.

IMO

[magnolia]

Then why is Nancy reporting that this doctor (dermatologist) is the bio dad of the first two kids? This is where I'm confused! :confused:
I believe that the dermatologist is the sperm donor of the two older children. I also think they look like him.

[CinderL.]

I think there is more, they only showed an hour last night. I will look for another Dateline.

[sunstar]

The older two children were born to a married couple. The law presumes that children born to a married couple are the children of said couple. They are the legal children of that married couple, no other legal action is required.

Thanks :smile: So that would mean the only person who could legally claim those two children would be DR, and not any "donor", correct?

[Tracian]

vitiligo is a genetic disease and is horrible. Apart from the disfigurement it causes, it is an auto immune disease which makes you more likely to be unable to fight off colds and regular stuff since your immune system is compromised.

IMO

Fair enough, but again trying to be delicate, why not use sperm from an African American?

[CinderL.]

I guess the reporter who was talking to her didn't know either! :biggrin: MOO :laugh:.....

[sunstar]

I believe that the dermatologist is the sperm donor of the two older children. I also think they look like him.

OK, so that means DR was inseminated with the dermatologist sperm and those kids are her natural children? Or was both sperm and egg donated and she was just the surrogate while she was married to MJ?

[Mr. Moto2]

Really? Was he abused or beaten onto the stage and childhood stopped at 9? MJ had never been to a beach - he wasn't allowed. He couldn't even play with other children. You can't compare one to the other - totally different and each child has different coping skills. JMO

How did the other brothers in the Jackson 5 fare? I never hear much about them. Did the father abuse Michael much more than his brothers?

[Tracian]

Why wouldn't he? It's no one's business. When people adopt children some never reveal it. :confused:


Athena, I am just saying what he said in an interview, that's all.

I watched him last night, and honestly felt very sorry for him; he had fame, talent, money, everything in the world, but it seems he didn't have the self confidence to be true to himself.

[VC2]

I am really having a problem with this public viewing deal. Geez. He would have hated that. He hid behind a mask for goodness sakes. I think it is horrible.

I am not so sure that it will be "public viewing" in the sense of seeing his face and body. It could just be the casket etc.

However if it is a public viewing in the other sense, they will have done a wonderful job at the funeral home to make him as lifelike and normal as possible.

He has always worn large amounts of make up due to the scarring on his face and his vitiligo, it won't be that difficult to make him look like he did in the pics of his rehearsals imo

[magnolia]

That is exactly what he said. In a shy way he explained it was his sperm, and that they are his children.

He's also only had two plastic surgeries. And the sperm was his??? Did he think we are idiots.

Now don't get me wrong, I think MJ was very talented. I do believe he received the "short stick" when fathers were being doled out.

[legalmania]

Question:

Why wouldn't MJ use his own sperm to create children?

Maybe he either couldn't or he didn't want black children. I really don't know.

[magnolia]

OK, so that means DR was inseminated with the dermatologist sperm and those kids are her natural children? Or was both sperm and egg donated and she was just the surrogate while she was married to MJ?

Yes either one would work. I personally think the former.


Edit: At least I think I do, lol.

[Unperson1984]

Thanks :smile: So that would mean the only person who could legally claim those two children would be DR, and not any "donor", correct?


That's Correct.

[vonna]

There is absolutely no proof that the donor is not AA.

Seeing them is proof enough for me - and most people, I'd wager.

[SDMermaid]

What if you aren't married and the father isn't listed on the birth certificate? My sister died at age 24 and she wasn't married and she didn't list a father on the certificate and then the ex boyfriend came and took my niece from my sister's house one week after she died claiming to be the father. My mother was so heart broken that she never put up a fight for custody and she is really not all mentally there to handle raising my niece but I always wanted to know if he was really the father. I'm not sure if he ever went to court to file the paper work to adopt her and he never took a DNA test to be proven the father. He has a past history of beating up women in his life and went to prison for a yr because of it and my sister had him arrested for it one time. That's why I have a close eye on him but so far he has been good to my niece. Part of me wants to get some of my niece's DNA and somehow get his and get a secret DNA test down behind his back but I wouldn't even know what to do if he is not the bio father. She will be 4 yrs old and I would hate to take her away from the only father she has known.


Not as far as MJ being the dad.

Under california law if you are married to the woman who gave birth to the children you are presumptively and legally the father. There have even been some cases where the couple divorced and the non biological father was ordered to pay child support because of the law.

Legally at the very least there was no reason to adopt the first 2 children, he was their father. Blanket might be messier but i cant imagine ANY court taking him away from his family to be given to someone who was just a surrogate.

IMO

[sunstar]

I am really having a problem with this public viewing deal. Geez. He would have hated that. He hid behind a mask for goodness sakes. I think it is horrible.

I don't think he would want to return to Neverland especially the way it is now, without the children, without the carnival rides, without the animals, etc. It looks nothing like it used to and he hasn't lived there for four years. :sad:

[Tracian]

There is absolutely no proof that the donor is not AA.


Well, light skinned blonde haired older son, and the complexion of Paris does not support that...I have not seen Blanket, but it does seem he was trying to distance himself from his AA genealogy.

I watched that interview, and he talked about how mean his dad was, always making comments about his 'big nose' and that 'you don't get that from me'...honestly the pain in his voice was heart breaking...

[CinderL.]

Athena, I am just saying what he said in an interview, that's all.

I watched him last night, and honestly felt very sorry for him; he had fame, talent, money, everything in the world, but it seems he didn't have the self confidence to be true to himself.

I was pretty amazed at that shopping trip and the 30 urns he bought. :ohmy:

[SDMermaid]

Yes Joe is seeing $$$


Well if we're talking about Joe's motives, that's a whole different thing! No, his only motives are about turning this to his advantage, IMO.

[sunstar]

Yes either one would work. I personally think the former.


Edit: At least I think I do, lol.

I know what you mean ~ this whole thing is terribly confusing! And here I thought ANS death was a legal nightmare!! :scared:

[VC2]

Because he didn't want them to be black.

You keep saying that like a mantra. I don't think there is any evidence of that do you have a link?

[velvetbrown]

MICHAEL JACKSON was an extremely talented singer, songwriter, dancer and choreographer. He worked his entire childhood, and his father was and is STILL a bully. MJ was generous with his time and money. He obviously missed not having a childhood by his creating Neverland. He was found NOT GUILTY of sexual abuse by a court of law. I believe he was innocent. I also believe he made bad choices.

I am sad that his life has ended. I hope he is at peace. His music was a big part of my life, and I'll miss him. Thanks for the memories Michael

[CinderL.]

I am not so sure that it will be "public viewing" in the sense of seeing his face and body. It could just be the casket etc.

However if it is a public viewing in the other sense, they will have done a wonderful job at the funeral home to make him as lifelike and normal as possible.

He has always worn large amounts of make up due to the scarring on his face and his vitiligo, it won't be that difficult to make him look like he did in the pics of his rehearsals imo

I am going to get it for this, but I don't think at the end he looked normal in life.....apologize in advance. But that is MOO.

[baywench]

Michael was a great entertainer. Hearing his music so much this week has reminded of how beautiful his songs are. I have very conflicted feelings about him as a person but I decided it doesn't matter. I probably wouldn't have liked VanGogh personally but I love his paintings, Jane Eyre was probably a little dark but I love her novels. I can love the art but not the artist and that is what I choose to do. jmo

[legalmania]

----------------------

Debbie is the mother of the kids. plain and simple.

Read toward the end of the page
http://www.tmz.com/

[boo]

I just watched 'Living with MJ' last night on Dateline. MJ was very adamant that the children were his sperm.

He was also very clear about how Joe treated him and his siblings.

This is one of the things that bother me most about MJ. As much as I tried to avoid (well sorta) all the MJ coverage this weekend, it seems as if I got sucked into every documentary ever made. I counted three separate incidents where MJ looked right into the camera and knowingly lied. I really wanted to believe the allegations were false, but after seeing him lie so easily, well... it bothered me.

He could have easily said "I don't want to talk about this" or "no comment on that", etc., but to look right in the lens and lie just shot any cred he almost had.

[who_is_it]

Athena, I am just saying what he said in an interview, that's all.

I watched him last night, and honestly felt very sorry for him; he had fame, talent, money, everything in the world, but it seems he didn't have the self confidence to be true to himself.

A highly reputed journalist doesn't expose someone's weaknesses and sore points (suffering from his looks, very intimate childhood stories etc.).

THIS article says the same like Bashir about Michael's wounds and weaknesses... but in an empathic way:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-me-jackson-hilburn27-2009jun27,0,4897003.story

P.S.: Wouldn't watch the biased "documentary" anymore. I watched it once -- not before the trial but after. Bashir wanted to make him look like a fool by showing how he climbed on a tree... but what was conveyed was how jealous he was that he can't climb trees.

[SDMermaid]

Funny how everyone is ripping on Debbie but no one is seeing that MJ didn't want his kids to have a mom:rolleyes:


:ohmy:we agree on something for once J/K:tonguewag:
that is why I said I could not believe what I was hearing on JVM and TMZ actually the oldest a judge would ask not that he would rule just on what the child or children want but it is common for judges to ask a child who is at that age..as far as DR I don't call her a mother but by law she is..it is just sad these kids will hear all of this..

[magnolia]

This is one of the things that bother me most about MJ. As much as I tried to avoid (well sorta) all the MJ coverage this weekend, it seems as if I got sucked into every documentary ever made. I counted three separate incidents where MJ looked right into the camera and knowingly lied. I really wanted to believe the allegations were false, but after seeing him lie so easily, well... it bothered me.

He could have easily said "I don't want to talk about this" or "no comment on that", etc., but to look right in the lens and lie just shot any cred he almost had.

Good point. I agree.

[vonna]

You keep saying that like a mantra. I don't think there is any evidence of that do you have a link?

I get it. Asking for a link is intended to disprove one's statement and override one's eyes.

[CinderL.]

Well, light skinned blonde haired older son, and the complexion of Paris does not support that...I have not seen Blanket, but it does seem he was trying to distance himself from his AA genealogy.

I watched that interview, and he talked about how mean his dad was, always making comments about his 'big nose' and that 'you don't get that from me'...honestly the pain in his voice was heart breaking...

Well, Al Sharpton is sure making the whole thing an African American issue. Big surprise. Saying MJ made it possible for AA's to go to the for front. Is he forgetting all of those before MJ.? Maybe even Martin L. King. Geez.

[magnolia]

A highly reputed journalist doesn't expose someone's weaknesses and sore points (suffering from his look, very intimate childhood stories etc.).
THIS article says the same like Bashir about Michael's wounds and weaknesses... but in an empathic way:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-me-jackson-hilburn27-2009jun27,0,4897003.story

P.S.: Wouldn't watch the biased "documentary" anymore. I watched it once -- not before the trial but after. Bashir's wanted to make him look like a fool when he was climbing on a tree... but what was conveyed was how jealous he was that he can't climb trees.

Bolding is mine. I disagree. A journalist delves into what makes people tick and what influences behavior and situations. MJ's childhood is at the heart of why he was who he was. If MJ was willing to talk (which he was), so be it. It took little persuasion to get MJ to discuss his life.

[SDMermaid]

Anytime a grown adult that spends WAY TOO MUCH time with one child that is not their own should raise flags. Jordan traveled a lot with MJ and was photographed with him pretty much everywhere MJ was they were joined to the hip! I believe that something did happend to Jordan and if I was his parents I would have not settled I would make MJ pay by going to prison and then sue his butt.


Evan Chandler was angry with how the relationship with Jackson had interfered in his family. According to Jordy, Michael had been trying to poison the boy against his parents who had been dealing amicably with each other before Jackson came into the picture. While it's not admirable, it's understandable how angry he was.

But those feelings have nothing to do with the credibility of the reports his son gave and the facts surrounding them.

IMO it is just ludicrous to think that the accusations were just a fabrication based on nothing when in fact Jackson was sleeping every night with his son and trying to alienate him from his parents and the mother and father from each other.

Stacy Brown is on the phone with JVM. I suggest you read THE MAN BEHIND THE MASK.

[SKARDYKAT]

You keep saying that like a mantra. I don't think there is any evidence of that do you have a link?

In an interview I saw, he claimed he did not care what race his children were. "Rainbow", he said would be good. He also stated Blankets mother was black.

[who_is_it]

Read toward the end of the page
http://www.tmz.com/

Yes, no mother listed in the birth certificates.

[vonna]

In an interview I saw, he claimed he did not care what race his children were. "Rainbow", he said would be good. He also stated Blankets mother was black.

Those were only words. His actions spoke more loudly by bleaching himself white.

[boo]

Those were only words. His actions spoke more loudly by bleaching himself white.

Another lie, whether intentional or not. He claimed in one interview that Blanket's mother and him were at one time, "in a relationship". In the next documentary (with Besheer I believe), he claimed he never knew her and she was just a surrogate.

[GentleBreeze]

I just never understood why someone that was teased about his face would make his face even more unattractive. He just really started to look creepy like in the last 5 yrs.

We would have to be MJ to know why he thought he had to keep doing cosmetic surgery.

From his photos taken just days ago at rehearsal it seems he had further surgery and was going back to how he looked when he really was in his prime.

He looked beautiful again in the outfits, especially the one where he has the purple see through shirt/jacket on and his hair done like he use to wear it.

imo

[who_is_it]

Bolding is mine. I disagree. A journalist delves into what makes people tick and what influences behavior and situations. MJ's childhood is at the heart of why he was who he was. If MJ was willing to talk (which he was), so be it. It took little persuasion to get MJ to discuss his life.

You could clearly see in the "documentary" how emotional and biased Bashir himself was.

He asked a shop assistant 3 times how much Michael spent.

What was the aim of the repeated question? - A high figure.
What does a high figure imply? - He wastes his money.
Why do you want to show this? - People who watch are envy cause they can't "waste" money the same way he did.

This is no journalism but manipulation of emotions.

It's a long time I watched the "documentary" but I felt sympathy when he asked him questions about his plastic surgery. Would you treat anyone who told you he suffers from his looks the same way? That's cruel.

THIS made me tick. How could a journalist be so disgraceful?

[Unperson1984]

You keep saying that like a mantra. I don't think there is any evidence of that do you have a link?


You have to admit that MJ’s numerous facial surgeries did change his African-American features. And he didn’t choose an African-American woman to give him children.

[vonna]

He did not bleach his skin. He has vitiligo.

A determatologist usually recommends that you either lighten or darken your skin and it depends on which is more prominent.


Depigmentation—this treatment involves fading the rest of the skin on the body to match the areas that are already white. For people who have vitiligo on more than 50 percent of their bodies, depigmentation may be the best treatment option. Patients apply the drug monobenzylether of hydroquinone (monobenzone or Benoquin*) twice a day to pigmented areas until they match the already-depigmented areas. You must avoid direct skin-to-skin contact with other people for at least 2 hours after applying the drug, as transfer of the drug may cause depigmentation of the other person's skin. The major side effect of depigmentation therapy is inflammation (redness and swelling) of the skin. You may experience itching or dry skin. Depigmentation tends to be permanent and is not easily reversed. In addition, a person who undergoes depigmentation will always be unusually sensitive to sunlight.

http://www.medicinenet.com/vitiligo/page4.htm#tocl

Sorry. I don't buy it. My reason prevents it.

[sunstar]

Yes, no mother listed in the birth certificates.

In the b/c for the first two children, MJ is listed as the father and DR is listed as the mother. On the second one, for Paris, she actually signed the certificate.

http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0630_jackson_kids_wm.pdf

[FallenAngel♥]

Sorry. I don't buy it. My reason prevents it.

Are you a doctor?

[who_is_it]

Anytime a grown adult that spends WAY TOO MUCH time with one child that is not their own should raise flags. Jordan traveled a lot with MJ and was photographed with him pretty much everywhere MJ was they were joined to the hip! I believe that something did happend to Jordan and if I was his parents I would have not settled I would make MJ pay by going to prison and then sue his butt.

Don't think I would defend these horrible parents... but you don't know what their reasons were. Maybe it was comfortable for them that they didn't have to take care of Jordan. They had "free time".

[FallenAngel♥]

Yes, no mother listed in the birth certificates.

what?..........

[sunstar]

You could clearly see in the "documentary" how emotional and biased Bashir himself was.

He asked a shop assistant 3 times how much Michael spent.

What was the aim of the repeated question? - A high figure.
What does a high figure imply? - He wastes his money.
Why do you want to show this? - People who watch are envy cause they can't "waste" money the same way he did.

This is no journalism but manipulation of emotions.

It's a long time I watched the "documentary" but I felt sympathy when he asked him questions about his plastic surgery. Would you treat anyone who told you he suffers from his looks the same way? That's cruel.

THIS made me tick. How could a journalist be so disgraceful?
I didn't care for Bashir either and the tone of his questions. MOO

[GentleBreeze]

He did not bleach his skin. He has vitiligo.

A dermatologist usually recommends that you either lighten or darken your skin and it depends on which is more prominent.


Depigmentation—this treatment involves fading the rest of the skin on the body to match the areas that are already white. For people who have vitiligo on more than 50 percent of their bodies, depigmentation may be the best treatment option. Patients apply the drug monobenzylether of hydroquinone (monobenzone or Benoquin*) twice a day to pigmented areas until they match the already-depigmented areas. You must avoid direct skin-to-skin contact with other people for at least 2 hours after applying the drug, as transfer of the drug may cause depigmentation of the other person's skin. The major side effect of depigmentation therapy is inflammation (redness and swelling) of the skin. You may experience itching or dry skin. Depigmentation tends to be permanent and is not easily reversed. In addition, a person who undergoes depigmentation will always be unusually sensitive to sunlight.

http://www.medicinenet.com/vitiligo/page4.htm#tocl

Hence the umbrella.

It is so simple.

This is the treatment he chose.

It makes me wonder just how many people even know about Vitilio. He certainly is not the only person that has endured this. He just happens to be the most famous.

[FallenAngel♥]

OMG - Why are people putting private documents on the internet. This is nuts. :ohmy:

they aren't private they are public records.....

[boo]

I don't buy the vitiligo story either. Nope, way too convenient, especially when you add in the rest of the things he did to either alter his appearance and then coincidentally have caucasian children. (And yes, I absolutely believe these children are caucasian).

[CinderL.]

You could clearly see in the "documentary" how emotional and biased Bashir himself was.

He asked a shop assistant 3 times how much Michael spent.

What was the aim of the repeated question? - A high figure.
What does a high figure imply? - He wastes his money.
Why do you want to show this? - People who watch are envy cause they can't "waste" money the same way he did.

This is no journalism but manipulation of emotions.

It's a long time I watched the "documentary" but I felt sympathy when he asked him questions about his plastic surgery. Would you treat anyone who told you he suffers from his looks the same way? That's cruel.

THIS made me tick. How could a journalist be so disgraceful?

He kept asking the question because MJ was spending a huge amount of money. How many gold leaf tables or urns does one person need? As to his plastic surgeries, people were curious, so the interviewer asked the questions. That was his job at the time.

[sunstar]

OMG - Why are people putting private documents on the internet. This is nuts. :ohmy:

The birth certificates? Aren't they public record? :shrug:

[GentleBreeze]

I didn't care for Bashir either and the tone of his questions. MOO

I thought HE was the pervert and sleaze ball.

He is a despicable little man.

imo

[FallenAngel♥]

The birth certificates? Aren't they public record? :shrug:

Yep they are. so are wills and autopsy reports.

[who_is_it]

what?..........

I didn't see the link posted by someone else.

TMZ wrote:

"On the doc, Prince Michael Jackson II's father is listed as MJ -- but the space where Prince's mother is supposed to be named was left blank."

I didn't know it was about Blanket. "Prince Michael II" made me jump to the conclusion "Prince". "Prince Michael II" is usually known as "Blanket".

[emdragon]

Yes, no mother listed in the birth certificates.

Yes there is. Debbie is not only listed as the mother on both BC she also signed the parental certification for Paris.

And ok but I have to say this to Michael Jackson--"Conceited MUCH" all three of those kids are named "Michael" on the BC it is "Paris-Michael" but at least her middle name isn't Joesph

[jewel6]

OMG - Why are people putting private documents on the internet. This is nuts. :ohmy:

What private documents?

[GentleBreeze]

I don't buy the vitiligo story either. Nope, way too convenient, especially when you add in the rest of the things he did to either alter his appearance and then coincidentally have Caucasian children. (And yes, I absolutely believe these children are Caucasian).

How do we know that Blanket is a 100% caucasian? Why does it matter. Does Madonna adopt white children only? What about Roy Rogers and Dale Evans? What about other stars that are of one race but adopts a child of another race?

Why would MJ be judged differently from so many others and must adopt only black children?:confused:

Does his kids care what race their daddy was? Nope, not for one nano second imo.

imo

[SKARDYKAT]

How do we know that Blanket is a 100% caucasian? Why does it matter. Does Madonna adopt white children only? What about Roy Rogers and Dale Evans? What about other stars that are of one race but adopts a child of another race?

Why would MJ be judged differently from so many others and must adopt only black children?:confused:

Does his kids care what race their daddy was? Nope, not for one nano second imo.

imo

ITA - nope :beer:

[who_is_it]

He kept asking the question because MJ was spending a huge amount of money. How many gold leaf tables or urns does one person need? As to his plastic surgeries, people were curious, so the interviewer asked the questions. That was his job at the time.

I didn't remember what he bought. My intention was on the manipulating questions.

He earned the money he spent... and he was in the guiness book for his donations to charity.

You could critize someone for spending his money if he has a lot but never gives anything to charity.

If the items he bought make sense to you or not is unimportant... or would you want someone else to tell you that the things you buy aren't nice or useful?

Do you know the TMZ poll "good genes" or "good docs"? Everybody who answers "good genes" is a fool. Nobody wouldn't look as young as 20 years ago without any plastic surgery. Like Michael Jackson said: Everyone in Hollywood had. -- Yes, almost everyone.

I log out.
:seeya:

[GentleBreeze]

Honestly - I never knew about it until it happened to my girlfriend. It also affects your self-esteem tremendously.

Did you read the transcript I posted between Anderson and Mesereau? Very good interview and enlightening. Mesereau seemed to have great insight in MJs persona.

I have known three or four people that have had it. I didn't know at the time what it was called but I did know that it anguished them greatly and they seemed to be ashamed of it even though they couldn't help it. I remember how people would stare at them. I felt so sad for them.:sad:

No, I have been house painting today but I will. I wished I had seen Tom, he is such a classy man.:wink:

imo

[flipflop]

Honestly - I never knew about it until it happened to my girlfriend. It also affects your self-esteem tremendously.

Did you read the transcript I posted between Anderson and Mesereau? Very good interview and enlightening. Mesereau seemed to have great insight in MJs persona.

My boyfriend, when I was 16, had this also. He was Italian and the parts that turned white the most were his eyelids, hands elbows. But it was still all over his body. He was very self conscience. I heard some people yell "hey marble", once, as we walked through the mall. I felt so bad for him. He did go to a dermatologist and he went the route of making the light spots darker. I know he had to use some sort of tanning thing. This was right before tanning beds became popular. He also had some injections in his hand that helped the darker pigment spread or maybe it was skin grafting b/c now that I think of it I think I remember him saying they took skin from his butt. This was a long time ago, so maybe I am talking out MY butt, lol.

Anyway,I tried not to ask him too much about it but whatever he was doing worked for about 70 percent of his body.

[emdragon]

Why are people referring to Michael's children as "these poor children?"

It's a shame that we "adults" are the ones who are so judgmental. You think these childrens' peers are thinking "these poor children?"

"these poor children" as in they just lost their father.

[boo]

How do we know that Blanket is a 100% caucasian? Why does it matter. Does Madonna adopt white children only? What about Roy Rogers and Dale Evans? What about other stars that are of one race but adopts a child of another race?

Why would MJ be judged differently from so many others and must adopt only black children?:confused:

Does his kids care what race their daddy was? Nope, not for one nano second imo.

imo

Doesn't matter one bit to me at all. I'm just of the belief that it was a premeditated choice by MJ.

That's all, nothing sinister there.

[GentleBreeze]

Why are people referring to Michael's children as "these poor children?"

It's a shame that we "adults" are the ones who are so judgmental. You think these childrens' peers are thinking "these poor children?"

I think these children think they were very lucky to have had the daddy they had.

I don't think poor is in their future. They are going to be extremely rich and they have plenty of love and support just like MJ knew they would.

imo

[legalmania]

Doesn't matter one bit to me at all. I'm just of the belief that it was a premeditated choice by MJ.

That's all, nothing sinister there.

If the law was that easy we wouldn't need attorneys.

[who_is_it]

I thought HE was the pervert and sleaze ball.

He is a despicable little man.

imo

A man with a heart of stone.

[who_is_it]

Yes there is. Debbie is not only listed as the mother on both BC she also signed the parental certification for Paris.

And ok but I have to say this to Michael Jackson--"Conceited MUCH" all three of those kids are named "Michael" on the BC it is "Paris-Michael" but at least her middle name isn't Joesph

emdragon, I confused "Prince" and "Prince Michael II" (= Blanket). It was a misunderstanding.

[GentleBreeze]

My boyfriend, when I was 16, had this also. He was Italian and the parts that turned white the most were his eyelids, hands elbows. But it was still all over his body. He was very self conscience. I heard some people yell "hey marble", once, as we walked through the mall. I felt so bad for him. He did go to a dermatologist and he went the route of making the light spots darker. I know he had to use some sort of tanning thing. This was right before tanning beds became popular. He also had some injections in his hand that helped the darker pigment spread or maybe it was skin grafting b/c now that I think of it I think I remember him saying they took skin from his butt. This was a long time ago, so maybe I am talking out MY butt, lol.

Anyway,I tried not to ask him too much about it but whatever he was doing worked for about 70 percent of his body.

Through my ignorance at the time..... I thought when I first saw them that they had been burned sometime in their lifetime and it was just smooth scarring.

imo

[who_is_it]

My boyfriend, when I was 16, had this also. He was Italian and the parts that turned white the most were his eyelids, hands elbows. But it was still all over his body. He was very self conscience. I heard some people yell "hey marble", once, as we walked through the mall. I felt so bad for him. He did go to a dermatologist and he went the route of making the light spots darker. I know he had to use some sort of tanning thing. This was right before tanning beds became popular. He also had some injections in his hand that helped the darker pigment spread or maybe it was skin grafting b/c now that I think of it I think I remember him saying they took skin from his butt. This was a long time ago, so maybe I am talking out MY butt, lol.

Anyway,I tried not to ask him too much about it but whatever he was doing worked for about 70 percent of his body.

"hey marble", this is so mean.

[sunstar]

I was thinking the same thing. Didn't he say after the trial that he didn't want to return there?

That's what I remember, and he was true to that ~ he hasn't lived there since 2005. :wink:

[emdragon]

emdragon, I confused "Prince" and "Prince Michael II" (= Blanket). It was a misunderstanding.

I saw that after i posted.. I only reacted to your post because i had literally just closed the page on the BC..

Would really like to see the third BC.

[sunstar]

He was very bitter too when he said that but Neverland will never be the same. I wonder if he put anything in his will about it? :(

I think the Will was drafted in 2002, unless it's been updated. This Neverland idea sounds more like something his father would see as a $$$$$ opportunity. MOO

[4Life]

CW just left us a post on this forum

Coldwater
Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 485

*****attention all posters*****

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What's ahead for this subject??
Wow, the funeral, the custody, the will, the cause of death, etc etc.
Sure makes for an interesting forum, right?? Be nice if it were here, right?

Well it won't be if a few of you cannot stay on a subject, you have plenty to choose from. All of you have the option to PM, to IGNORE,
to REPORT, but few use them.

SOOO, anyone remember his trial forum - it was shut down due to so many infractions - well, this is A WARNING, MANY OF YOU WILL BE BANNED, even if it's ONE rule broken, it may take a while to find you but we will. So now that you've been warned, I'd advise the 'good' posters to report rules broken immediately & "bad" ones to know you will be banned, no questions asked ----

OR THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE IS TO SHUT THE FORUM DOWN COMPLETELY. I would assume the adults would like to keep it open so don't be posting like children just to cause trouble.

And that's my final decision.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=355557

[sunstar]

I hope they are placed with someone (all three together) who will love them the way Michael did.

Amen to that! :smile:

[who_is_it]

I think the Will was drafted in 2002, unless it's been updated. This Neverland idea sounds more like something his father would see as a $$$$$ opportunity. MOO

The question is if he made ANY statement where he wants to be buried.

[4Life]

Amen to that! :smile:

Can Janet take custody of them?

[RootBeer]

Can Janet take custody of them?

Maybe Katherine can leave them to her in he will?

[RootBeer]

The question is if he made ANY statement where he wants to be buried.

For all we know, he may want his ashes mixed with Marlon Brando's. j/k

[4Life]

Maybe Katherine can leave them to her in he will?

I'm sure she can.

[CinderL.]

I was thinking Janet too. Frankly, I think the whole family has problems. JMO

[who_is_it]

Why are people referring to Michael's children as "these poor children?"

It's a shame that we "adults" are the ones who are so judgmental. You think these childrens' peers are thinking "these poor children?"

The father of these children died and there is no mother! Furthermore the grandmother is old. Maybe they will have to face a bitter loss again -- hopefully not.

I think the children's peers are judgmental in a different way: The Jackson kids have more toys, their father was famous. Madonna once said that Lourdes has problems with envy peers and that it takes long discussions to make her understand why other children react this way.

[RootBeer]

Posted Jun 30th 2009 8:53PM by TMZ Staff

http://www.tmz.com/

[RootBeer]

Frankly, I think the whole family has problems. JMO

I know a lot of people who should not be parents. just saying...

[4Life]

Frankly, I think the whole family has problems. JMO

I think Janet is the most secure and "normal"

[SDMermaid]

There are more then 3 races in the world

Thank you. It greatly annoys me when people imply being Jewish is a race distinction. It would be like saying Catholics are a separate race.

There are only three races.

[SDMermaid]

Yes it has and I agree I would eat crow if it is proven to be his bio kids:tonguewag:

At risk of getting bashed, it seems that the children do not have any African American genealogy, has this been discussed?

[who_is_it]

I saw that after i posted.. I only reacted to your post because i had literally just closed the page on the BC..

Would really like to see the third BC.

It's here:

Prince II's Birth Certificate -- No Mother Listed
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/prince-iis-birth-certificate-michael-jackson-surrogate-debbie-rowe/

[emdragon]

Maybe Katherine can leave them to her in he will?

No children aren't property- a will can only express the parents/guardians wishes- A judge could decide something different.

[sunstar]

The question is if he made ANY statement where he wants to be buried.

When he lived at Neverland he probably thought he'd always be there, so he may have made that request but then I'd think he would've changed it after moving out in 2005 and now that it barely missed foreclosure. I understand the Will is going to be filed tomorrow so I'd imagine some accurate reports might come out then. :smile:

[emdragon]

It's here:

Prince II's Birth Certificate -- No Mother Listed
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/prince-iis-birth-certificate-michael-jackson-surrogate-debbie-rowe/

Thank you!

Interesting..Why the redaction? The Doctor I guess I can see- so that no one can break-in to his records but one line should simply be Michael's signature...

ok so I feel a tad bit better the kids are actually- Michael,Paris-Michael and Prince.

[sunstar]

Can Janet take custody of them?

I'm sure she could apply through the courts if she wants to. I believe it would be up to a family court judge to determine who is the best person to raise them. The judge might even ask the children or have a psychologist talk to them, etc. MOO