Michael Jackson Tues 6/30

[kellabeck]

question:

The lawyer of Dr Murray said -- contradicting to Murray's original statement -- Michael Jackson still had a pulse after the emergency had arrived.

Is there any source (for example police, hospital) which confirmed he still had a pulse?

I hadn't heard that from the lawyer.

But it doesn't add up. Lawyer said Dr Murray claimed that Jackson wasn't breathing but had faint pulse when he initiated CPR.

We now hear he didn't phone 911 for 30 minutes.

And the person who did call 911 said that the patient wasn't breathing and the doctor was pumping him. So how could Jackson not breathe for 30 minutes and yet have a pulse that whole time?

The more I hear from this doctor, the fishier it sounds.

[CinderL.]

Paula Abdul was born in 1962, 4 yrs after Jackson, according to Wikipedia.

Hummmmm. So another guy that got it wrong. grrrr.

[SDMermaid]

Wow I didn't know MJ got the 3rd child from San Diego that's where I live. I wonder if a woman that gave up a child on that date will come forward?

[MoonHarvest]

Unfortunately, I have trouble seeing the positive side that you mentioned.It seems like MJ had a compulsion to be around children, like most pedophiles do. Think about it, a pedophile does not usually stop seeking ways to be with children even after they are convicted and serve time for an offense against a child. IINM, the recidivism rate is the highest of all types of crimes.

Now, it was not proven in a court of law that MJ is a pedophile, but if it walks like a duck.....etc.

IMO

Or someone with a bad case of arrested development wants to be with kids because mentally he is still there.

Just don't know.

[vonna]

Well, I can sure see both sides of the whole mess. Peter Pan, childlike guy that loved children, and felt more comfortable with the innocence of them, or the pedofile, who built a place to be alone with kids. Either way, a prudent person would have stopped the practice of being surrounded by children after the first allegations. What was he thinking???

That's the problem. He didn't do much rational thinking - especially when it came to his physiognomy.

[Great Dane]

TMZ is reporting that the children do not have MJ or DR's DNA....why do you think he would have three children, without using his own DNA?

[emdragon]

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=6247930

Link to abcnews article about the deed to Neverland.

Oh, I can see it now! $$$$$$ The company turns Neverland into Graceland with a shrine to Michael Jackson for fans to visit from around the world.

NO!!!!

(ok guess you can tell that would make my head explode. but I called it already just hope it doesn't happen)

[MoonHarvest]

TMZ is reporting that the children do not have MJ or DR's DNA....why do you think he would have three children, without using his own DNA?


Well for one if he really did have Vitalago (sp?) he wouldn't want to share the possibility of it.

[kellabeck]

Unfortunately, I have trouble seeing the positive side that you mentioned.It seems like MJ had a compulsion to be around children, like most pedophiles do. Think about it, a pedophile does not usually stop seeking ways to be with children even after they are convicted and serve time for an offense against a child. IINM, the recidivism rate is the highest of all types of crimes.

Now, it was not proven in a court of law that MJ is a pedophile, but if it walks like a duck.....etc. IMO

Would you say that it was not proven in a court of law that Orenthal Simpson slaughtered Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman? Yes, he was acquitted, but if you followed the evidence, you have an opinion, I am sure.

Just as in that case, although the molestation trial was not televised, I followed the evidence as closely as I could, and imo, he WAS proven guilty although that jury, like Simpson's, refused to convict the celebrity.

The more facts you know about Jackson, the clearer the picture becomes, imo.

[GentleBreeze]

I bet if he is buried there he will haunt the place:scared:

I think it will become a happy place again where all children of all ages from young to old can enjoy the wholesome atmosphere there.

There will be life again there with trains going, ferris wheels turning and the sound of little children shouting with excitement.

They will know that Michael finally is home again at Neverland where he should have always been.

RIP Michael. Even in death you are a shining star and so many are hurting.

Your fans want you to go back home MJ. Home to Neverland forevermore.

imo

[emdragon]

TMZ is reporting that the children do not have MJ or DR's DNA....why do you think he would have three children, without using his own DNA?

OH OH ASk me Aske me <waving arms in air>

He tried his whole life to change how he looked and who he was- why would want to pass on the same genes he hated to his kids? (not to mention the vitaligo)

[kellabeck]

TMZ is reporting that the children do not have MJ or DR's DNA....why do you think he would have three children, without using his own DNA?

Same reason he mutilated his own face. Self-loathing. Hatred of father Joe. They don't have any of his DNA either. Or maybe he wanted children as white as he made himself.

It's all sad, sad, sad. Those poor kids!

[Great Dane]

Well for one if he really did have Vitalago (sp?) he wouldn't want to share the possibility of it.

I was actually thinking that maybe he didn't want the kids to be dark, or have his old nose.....but, your reason makes sense too....

[CinderL.]

NO!!!!

(ok guess you can tell that would make my head explode. but I called it already just hope it doesn't happen)


Can you imagine how the people of Santa Barbara county will feel about this. OMG

IMO it will never happen. Those folks will pull out all stops for this not to happen. Zoning laws, etc.

[who_is_it]

I hadn't heard that from the lawyer.

But it doesn't add up. Lawyer said Dr Murray claimed that Jackson wasn't breathing but had faint pulse when he initiated CPR.

We now hear he didn't phone 911 for 30 minutes.

And the person who did call 911 said that the patient wasn't breathing and the doctor was pumping him. So how could Jackson not breathe for 30 minutes and yet have a pulse that whole time?

The more I hear from this doctor, the fishier it sounds.

I've posted my opinion about it several times. I don't think there was any foul play. I could imagine that the doc "simply" didn't wanted to be the one in whose presence Michael Jackson died. Maybe there's also a medically / pharmaceutically explainable reason why he intended to pretend more time between taking any drugs and the death has passed than it actually has.

[aproudmom]

love to see a smile on his face..to bad it had to be his last it took years for him to smile again..
http://justjared.buzznet.com/gallery/photos.php?yr=2009&mon=06&evt=jackson-rehearsal&pic=michael-jackson-final-rehearsal-01.jpg

[kellabeck]

And it is apparent that you followed TH's such as DD and others who reported ERRONEOUS information. The transcripts proved DD's spin.

You keep saying that and yet you don't produce this "ERRONEOUS" information.

Why didn't Jackson sue Diane Dimond? She wrote a whole book on the case. Why not sue Vanity Fair? You can't say he wasn't litigious.

[ruth66]

SOMEONE ask about Farrah here is a link to go to...video to the side I am not sure Farrah wanted a big public thing alot are saying she has got no coverage because of MJ maybe in some ways but I am sure her funeral was to be very private by her wishes anyway..

http://cbs2.com/local/Farrah.Fawcett.Died.2.1065103.html

Thanks aproudmom for the link! I was wondering about her memorial. God bless her family. May she R.I.P.

[vonna]

Well for one if he really did have Vitalago (sp?) he wouldn't want to share the possibility of it.

Key words here are "really did."

[SDMermaid]

ITA! Pedophiles won't stop trying to hang with children until they die. I wonder what will be found on his computer? I bet the family has a huge job ahead to get rid of stuff (pics) if he is really a pedo.


Unfortunately, I have trouble seeing the positive side that you mentioned.It seems like MJ had a compulsion to be around children, like most pedophiles do. Think about it, a pedophile does not usually stop seeking ways to be with children even after they are convicted and serve time for an offense against a child. IINM, the recidivism rate is the highest of all types of crimes.

Now, it was not proven in a court of law that MJ is a pedophile, but if it walks like a duck.....etc.

IMO

[MoonHarvest]

Key words here are "really did."


I do think he may have. Then bleached all of his skin to match. But I really don't know.

Look Deepak spoke well of Mike Jackson to me that says a lot. I do think Deepak is a stand up guy.

[kellabeck]

I've posted my opinion about it several times. I don't think there was any foul play. I could imagine that the doc "simply" didn't wanted to be the one in whose presence Michael Jackson died. Maybe there's also a medically / pharmaceutically explainable reason why he intended to pretend more time between taking any drugs and the death has passed than it actually has.

I am not suggesting that the doctor murdered Jackson. But it's possible that he injected him with drugs and then panicked when Jackson stopped breathing. And I think the inconsistencies and strangeness is compatible with that explanation. The doctor is trying to avoid responsibility.

[GentleBreeze]

TMZ is reporting that the children do not have MJ or DR's DNA....why do you think he would have three children, without using his own DNA?

I dunno. Must be for the same reason when other parents have children who are no relation to them.

In California he is the legally recognized father since he has been known as their father since birth. One only has two years to refute he is not the legal father and that time is long past now.

imo

[Great Dane]

OH OH ASk me Aske me <waving arms in air>

He tried his whole life to change how he looked and who he was- why would want to pass on the same genes he hated to his kids? (not to mention the vitaligo)

You are very funny, I actually typed the same thing...minus the clever arm waving....lol

Okay, so here is my question....it is fairly obviously that he disliked himself, his features and he seemed to lean more towards being white than black, even when he decided to have kids, it appears as though they were at the very least "mixed"....yet, he is very loved by the black community....obviously for his tremendous dance/musincal skill, the barriers he broke through as an entertainer....but, I'm actually amazed now, how he held such personal negativity and was never really shunned by the black community.....

[who_is_it]

Though Frank Dileo, Randy Phillips and all other main contributers to the shows deserve a 100% dignity stamp imo I must say: Michael didn't employ enough professionals who could handle his affairs now. If there had been a spokesperson who could deal with the press the humiliating Bashir "documentary" wouldn't have been broadcasted but the rebuttal video instead.

[SDMermaid]

If MJ molested other kids I bet the were paid off under the table just like the maid's son. Just because MJ was around 100's of kids doesn't mean he's going to molest all of them. Pedophiles have types just like we do I like men and dated a lot of guys but I didn't have sex with all of them.

In order to understand the "JF" story you would have to read the transcript. His testimony was totally called into question by the defense and when originally quetioned LE even tried to coerce him into making statements; there is a psychiatric term for it -- called "false memories" based on what he has been told. He was 7 when the allegation was made not by him but by his mother. MJ settled with that mother and she also went to the tabloids and was paid by Hard Copy.

JC - it was his father who planted this in his son's head while under sodium penethol - and there is a transcript of a tape where his father was recorded that said he would bring MJ down due to MJ's failure to help him with a business project. Also it is mistakenly believed by many that MJ settled -- and it was NOT MJ but his insurance company. Sure would love to have access to JC's trial against his father which started 2 months after MJ's trial.

GA -- In his testimony there were a few statements that were almost verbatim out of JC's complaint that was widely available on the internet. The family admitted they KNEW the entire story about JC -- and they were the ones who INSISTED on meeting MJ.

MJ has been around hundreds of children. Where are the stories? IMO the history surrounding the complaints clearly show money was the motive.

MJ was an easy target; a sitting duck and my conclusion was arrived at by studying the evidence; downloding the transcripts; as I inititally thought MJ was guilty as well. ALL MOO

[kellabeck]

Can you imagine how the people of Santa Barbara county will feel about this. OMG

IMO it will never happen. Those folks will pull out all stops for this not to happen. Zoning laws, etc.

If this comes to pass, I predict there will be two factions: one wanting to stop it and another promoting it and arguing how good it would be for their economy. Mark my words.

[mrsmcgoo]

Heading out and just wanted to say....

We are doing very well posting our different views here!

WTG posters!! :thumbsup:

[missinglink]

The woman who gave birth to "Blanket" never knew the identity of the parent who "took" "Blanket". It was a totally closed process where none of the adults involved met, spoke or anything like that.

Of course, now that the identity of the hospital where "Blanket" was born has been released, there is some woman out there who may put two and two together...interestingly though, the legal process of Jackson taking custody of "Blanket" was doen through the Los Angeles County Courts, not San Diego County.

Also, Michael was NOT the one who took the baby from the hospital. An attorney and social worker took the baby and delivered him to Jackson. The birth mother never saw the child.

Regardless, it matters not who the birth mother of "Blanket" is, or even who the bio mom and dad of the two older ones are. The Court will make custody decisions based on the best interests of the three children together.

Debbie Rowe has absolutely no connection to "Blanket". She gave birth to the other two while she and Michael were married. A Judge is not going to split up those three kids. Also, regardless of whose genetics the kids carried, in California Family Law there is a presumption of parentage. In other words, if Michael 1) held himself out publically to be the father; 2) supported them as their father; 3) the kids knew him as their father; 4) had a relationship with them as their father, as far as the State of California is concerned, he is their father, no matter whose sperm helped conceive them.

What an excellent post! :thumbsup:

[MoonHarvest]

Heading out and just wanted to say....

We are doing very well posting our different views here!

WTG posters!! :thumbsup:

:seeya:take care.

[who_is_it]

I was actually thinking that maybe he didn't want the kids to be dark, or have his old nose.....but, your reason makes sense too....

Another poster, VC2, shared her thoughts either on this thread or yesterday's thread: He was supposed to suffer from vitiligo. Furthermore he suffered from his looks and admitted so in (imo) heartbreaking statements.

[kellabeck]

Though Frank Dileo, Randy Phillips and all other main contributers to the shows deserve a 100% dignity stamp imo I must say: Michael didn't employ enough professionals who could handle his affairs now. If there had been a spokesperson who could deal with the press the humiliating Bashir "documentary" wouldn't have been broadcasted but the rebuttal video instead.

The Bashir documentary aired because Jackson agreed to the interviews and to giving Bashir months of access to film, no holds barred.

It was humiliating because a grown man cuddling with yet another pre-pubescent boy and declaring it "the most loving thing" to share one's bed was SHOCKING and it opened Pandora's box. But it wasn't Bashir who opened it. It was J A C K S O N and his habit of bedding little boys.

[MoonHarvest]

Another poster, VC2, shared her thoughts either on this thread or yesterday's thread: He was supposed to suffer from vitiligo. Furthermore he suffered from his looks and admitted so in (imo) heartbreaking statements.


I think abuse affected him terribly.

[Great Dane]

Again - you'd have to rehash the entire trial and testimonies to prove it. Like I said I followed it on a daily basis, downloaded the ACTUAL transcripts and followed the evidence. There was absolutely NO proof that MJ molested these children. Bottom line: money was the motivator.

MJ just wanted to get on with his life. This trial totally destroyed his spirit - can understand why he didn't sue. He did sue Victor Guiterrez who published a book about the JC case and WON and the book was banned in the US.

I agree, I think that parents saw MJ as a money machine and sent their children to his home for profit...it's sad and it really makes you disgust any parent that would want to benefit financially from something so horrible...but, people are warped.....

[CinderL.]

If this comes to pass, I predict there will be two factions: one wanting to stop it and another promoting it and arguing how good it would be for their economy. Mark my words.

I am sure there will be some that would want it there, but you know the kind of people who live there. Very wealthy, other celebs. I think they would fight it tooth and nail.

[Great Dane]

thanks -

One more thing I know today.

As some of you have no doubt calculated by the news....Daddy Joe has NO clue what is going on and is not being consulted or included in plans and arrangements regarding finances, the kids, the will, the funeral, etc.

And he was left out of the Will....

While I'm sad to lose MJ, I am happy that he was able to publicly slap his father in the face with that information....

[LILMANMAX]

Again - you'd have to rehash the entire trial and testimonies to prove it. Like I said I followed it on a daily basis, downloaded the ACTUAL transcripts and followed the evidence. There was absolutely NO proof that MJ molested these children. Bottom line: money was the motivator.

MJ just wanted to get on with his life. This trial totally destroyed his spirit - can understand why he didn't sue. He did sue Victor Guiterrez who published a book about the JC case and WON and the book was banned in the US.

Pedophiles just don't stop -- there should have been many more and there aren't -- bottom lines again MONEY was the motivator.

ITA
I followed just like you Athena and there WAS ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF AT ALL. None what so ever.
He never recovered from these ridiculous allegations. Who would? :shrug:

[MoonHarvest]

thanks -

One more thing I know today.

As some of you have no doubt calculated by the news....Daddy Joe has NO clue what is going on and is not being consulted or included in plans and arrangements regarding finances, the kids, the will, the funeral, etc.


Good, glad to hear it.

I don't think Mr and Mrs Jackson live together, and have not for a while.

[SDMermaid]

There was a lot of evidence that was kept out of trial that would have really made MJ guilty but he had a good lawyer and that's why he was so scared to go to trial. MJ got lucky and the jury was hand picked most of them liked MJ and believe children can lie

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/LegalCenter/popup?id=532227


Would you say that it was not proven in a court of law that Orenthal Simpson slaughtered Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman? Yes, he was acquitted, but if you followed the evidence, you have an opinion, I am sure.

Just as in that case, although the molestation trial was not televised, I followed the evidence as closely as I could, and imo, he WAS proven guilty although that jury, like Simpson's, refused to convict the celebrity.

The more facts you know about Jackson, the clearer the picture becomes, imo.

[Great Dane]

Every single criminal charge brought against MJ was decided in a court of law, and he was found NOT GUILTY on each and every one of them. I can remember the prosecutor, and hope one day he will have to answer to God for his part in destroying an innocent man.

imo...of course.

ITA, but MJ didn't help matters much wiht the Jesus Juice, showing up to court in his PJ's, making statements about sharing his bed being the most beautiful thing....While I think MJ was innocent and I think what those people did was horrible....we all need to be held accountable for our role in things..."the road to hell is paved with good intentions"....

[Ice Cycle]

The woman who gave birth to "Blanket" never knew the identity of the parent who "took" "Blanket". It was a totally closed process where none of the adults involved met, spoke or anything like that.

as far as the State of California is concerned, he is their father, no matter whose sperm helped conceive them.

(snipped for space)

Well if that is the case what about this post that was posted earlier todayby a poster- BELOW.

Not sure if this was posted yet.

Jackson Court Hearings Set for July 6

"In the papers, Billie Jean Jackson claims to be the mother of Michael Jackson's son, Prince Michael Jackson II aka Blanket. Billie Jean filed for joint legal and physical custody of Blanket in December 2008, and asked for $1 billion in child support and to participate in Blanket's education and weekend life."

http://extratv.warnerbros.com/2009/0...gs_set_for.php (http://extratv.warnerbros.com/2009/06/jackson_court_hearings_set_for.php)

[emdragon]

Every single criminal charge brought against MJ was decided in a court of law, and he was found NOT GUILTY on each and every one of them. I can remember the prosecutor, and hope one day he will have to answer to God for his part in destroying an innocent man.

imo...of course.

Let's be honest here- innocent or guilty Michael Jackson has no one to blame for destroying his life but himself. Not the accusers, not the lawyers, not Bashir or Diane Diamond.

Michael CHOSE his lifestyle and he refused to compromise what HE wanted no matter what was said about him.

He made himself LOOK guilty the prosecutor didn't do that he just did his job.

[Great Dane]

Re: MJ and the change in skin color - was due to vitiligo. MJ even met DR at the dermatologist's office where he was being treated. For those that may have missed it - this is what happened to MJ:

I think I mentioned before that I have a girlfriend with vitiligo. A determatologist usually recommends that you either lighten or darken your skin and it depends on which is more prominent.


Depigmentation—this treatment involves fading the rest of the skin on the body to match the areas that are already white. For people who have vitiligo on more than 50 percent of their bodies, depigmentation may be the best treatment option. Patients apply the drug monobenzylether of hydroquinone (monobenzone or Benoquin*) twice a day to pigmented areas until they match the already-depigmented areas. You must avoid direct skin-to-skin contact with other people for at least 2 hours after applying the drug, as transfer of the drug may cause depigmentation of the other person's skin. The major side effect of depigmentation therapy is inflammation (redness and swelling) of the skin. You may experience itching or dry skin. Depigmentation tends to be permanent and is not easily reversed. In addition, a person who undergoes depigmentation will always be unusually sensitive to sunlight.

http://www.medicinenet.com/vitiligo/page4.htm#tocl

The change of skin color was "one" aspect of it, but what about the plastic suregery to change his face? Or choosing what appears to have been a white donor for his children (since they clearly look mixed)....

[who_is_it]

The Bashir documentary aired because Jackson agreed to the interviews and to giving Bashir months of access to film, no holds barred.

It was humiliating because a grown man cuddling with yet another pre-pubescent boy and declaring it "the most loving thing" to share one's bed was SHOCKING and it opened Pandora's box. But it wasn't Bashir who opened it. It was J A C K S O N and his habit of bedding little boys.

Bashir who himself didn't believe Michael did anything criminal (see post by Athena) profited. If you don't like someone you don't use this person to make money, right? It's Bashir who opened Pandora's box!

Even if you leave out the main issue of the edited "documentary" it shows how evil Bashir is. Michael entrusted him how he suffers from his looks. He abused his trust to make him appear like a fool and to sensationalize.

[CinderL.]

Let's be honest here- innocent or guilty Michael Jackson has no one to blame for destroying his life but himself. Not the accusers, not the lawyers, not Bashir or Diane Diamond.

Michael CHOSE his lifestyle and he refused to compromise what HE wanted no matter what was said about him.

He made himself LOOK guilty the prosecutor didn't do that he just did his job.

Good point.

[SDMermaid]

The first case 1993 was not given the chance to be tried he paid off the family. That case would have changed MJ whole life IMO he would have been in prison if all the facts that were reported true. We will never know the truth because the kids that were suppose to be molested aren't talking and MJ is dead and he would never think what he might have done was hurtful to children. Child molesters often think what the do with kids is loving because they aren't beating them they think that touching and kissing is showing love.


Every single criminal charge brought against MJ was decided in a court of law, and he was found NOT GUILTY on each and every one of them. I can remember the prosecutor, and hope one day he will have to answer to God for his part in destroying an innocent man.

imo...of course.

[MoonHarvest]

What makes you think that? I guess I need to google. :tongueside:

Makes me think what? His skin or Deepak?

[NotAgain]

The Bashir documentary aired because Jackson agreed to the interviews and to giving Bashir months of access to film, no holds barred.

It was humiliating because a grown man cuddling with yet another pre-pubescent boy and declaring it "the most loving thing" to share one's bed was SHOCKING and it opened Pandora's box. But it wasn't Bashir who opened it. It was J A C K S O N and his habit of bedding little boys.

I agree.

I would not let my son get near someone who was so obviously deranged.

[CinderL.]

ITA with your statement. I would imagine the residents will not want the traffic associated with opening up Neverland to tourists.

The only question I have is that up to the trial it was opened to the public. Did the residents fight it then? Not being argumentative - just curious.

When was it opened to the public? I didn't know that.

[GentleBreeze]

Thank you for reminding me of that. I did hear one of the Legal Analysts making that point. Also there is a law that if the children are born to the mother during their marriage - legally it is the husband's child unless contested and their name is on the birth certificate. So even if a woman were to have an affair while married and become pregnant - the spouse is automatically deemed the father again unless it is contested.

Hi!

Yes, you are right, it is in reverse. A contest of any kind must be made to the court within the first two years of the children's life. Even if a father later on finds out that his spouse cheated on him and finds out the children he thought were his own are not.... then if he has been the father figure to the children for at least 2 years he cannot contest and remains the father to the children.

They do this in the best interest of the children involved who are then bonded with the father.

There is no way in hades that a Judge is going to sit on that bench and rule that MJ isn't the legally recognized father to these children.

I think we all know if we were to meet these three children and ask them who their father is we all know who they would say, with pride, in a nano second.

This is much ado about nothing. Just more tabloid bottom feeders.

imo

[kellabeck]

Again - you'd have to rehash the entire trial and testimonies to prove it. Like I said I followed it on a daily basis, downloaded the ACTUAL transcripts and followed the evidence. There was absolutely NO proof that MJ molested these children. Bottom line: money was the motivator.

MJ just wanted to get on with his life. This trial totally destroyed his spirit - can understand why he didn't sue. He did sue Victor Guiterrez who published a book about the JC case and WON and the book was banned in the US.

Pedophiles just don't stop -- there should have been many more and there aren't -- bottom lines again MONEY was the motivator.

It depends on what you call proof. No, there wasn't a video of him doing it. Molesting -- like other crimes -- is usually committed in secret. But there was a whole lot of evidence--- not least of which was the statement by the boy and his brother. At the VERY LEAST Jackson should have been convicted of plying the children with wine (remember the Jesus Juice and Jesus Blood?)

On the contrary, there were legions of little boys he bedded before and after. You've forgotten LaToya's statements, I guess. Or is she part of the conspiracy?? You may recall that before she was brought back onto the Gravy Train that was Michael, she talked about the parade of little boys through Jackson's Encino bedroom, and the checks to families buying their silence, and how she couldn't stand by with innocent children being hurt. Remember that??

And the alarm system to alert him when anyone came near his bedroom. And the photos of nude boys found in his room, the book of them found right where the boy said it was kept.

And Neverland itself--- a pedophile's dream.

And that's not even to mention all the witnesses whose silence was bought. Like Norma Staikos. And there are the Quindoys.

And why would Michael Jackson give Jimmy Safechuck's parents a $100,000 Rolls Royce? So he could take the boy on tour and the parents' silence was purchased.

There's a lot of blame to go around imo.

[Great Dane]

The first case 1993 was not giving the chance to be tried he paid off the family. That case would have changed MJ whole life IMO he would have been in prison if all the facts that were report true. We will never know the truth because the kids that were suppose to be molested and MJ is dead and he would never think what he might have done was hurtful to children. Child molesters often think what the do with kids is loving because they aren't beating them they think that touching and kissing is showing love.

Shame on the parents that took the payoff....:thumbdown:

[MoonHarvest]

It depends on what you call proof. No, there wasn't a video of him doing it. Molesting -- like other crimes -- is usually committed in secret. But there was a whole lot of evidence--- not least of which was the statement by the boy and his brother. At the VERY LEAST Jackson should have been convicted of plying the children with wine (remember the Jesus Juice and Jesus Blood?)

On the contrary, there were legions of little boys he bedded before and after. You've forgotten LaToya's statements, I guess. Or is she part of the conspiracy?? You may recall that before she was brought back onto the Gravy Train that was Michael, she talked about the parade of little boys through Jackson's Encino bedroom, and the checks to families buying their silence, and how she couldn't stand by with innocent children being hurt. Remember that??

And the alarm system to alert him when anyone came near his bedroom. And the photos of nude boys found in his room, the book of them found right where the boy said it was kept.

And Neverland itself--- a pedophile's dream.

And that's not even to mention all the witnesses whose silence was bought. Like Norma Staikos. And there are the Quindoys.

And why would Michael Jackson give Jimmy Safechuck's parents a $100,000 Rolls Royce? So he could take the boy on tour and the parents' silence was purchased.

There's a lot of blame to go around imo.

I agree about the Jesus Juice, at the very least.

[kellabeck]

Bashir who himself didn't believe Michael did anything criminal (see post by Athena) profited. If you don't like someone you don't use this person to make money, right? It's Bashir who opened Pandora's box!

Even if you leave out the main issue of the edited "documentary" it shows how evil Bashir is. Michael entrusted him how he suffers from his looks. He abused his trust to make him appear like a fool and to sensationalize.

Michael was just a victim of all these evil people! Puh-leeze! Michael CHOSE to do what he pleased and when things got dicey, he used money and his celebrity to buy his continued freedom.

[GentleBreeze]

ITA with your statement. I would imagine the residents will not want the traffic associated with opening up Neverland to tourists.

The only question I have is that up to the trial it was opened to the public. Did the residents fight it then? Not being argumentative - just curious.

Didn't MJ employ a lot of local residents in that area when Neverland was up and running?

imo

[who_is_it]

Let's be honest here- innocent or guilty Michael Jackson has no one to blame for destroying his life but himself. Not the accusers, not the lawyers, not Bashir or Diane Diamond.

Michael CHOSE his lifestyle and he refused to compromise what HE wanted no matter what was said about him.

He made himself LOOK guilty the prosecutor didn't do that he just did his job.

Naive trust as a cause? - Maybe you forgot that the same gang teamed up in the JC case and the AV case: same psychologist, same lawyer, same prosecutor.

Neutral people with social and psychological experience (all teachers, the social workers who visited the AV family after the Bashir "docu") were told what a great friend MJ is!

[CinderL.]

It was an amusement park and was opened to the public just like any other amusement park. I think he bought it in 1988 - so that means from 1988-2004 it was open to the public.

Hum, I didn't know that. Thanks.

[kellabeck]

Making himself look guilty can also be translated as "nothing to hide". In any case, there was no evidence to support all those felony charges, and I disagree that its the job of a prosecutor to proceed with a criminal trial, for which he knows he lacks evidence, but moves forward with it anyway, out of spite and vengeance, which is what I have always believed was the case.


imo...of course.

I maintain more and more dirt will come out --- There was a lot swept under the rug and it's still there.

The prosecutor did have evidence and proceeded legally and the firm belief that the case was made. IMO the only reason Jackson was acquitted was because he was a celebrity. Any neighborhood guy with similar facts in evidence would be behind bars right now.

[who_is_it]

You could believe LaToya if you want - but I can assure you Sneddon did everything he could to get children or the parents to come forward and there WERE NONE. MJ couldn't have paid anyone that kind of money without it becoming public nevermind that he didn't have the money to do so to begin with.

To add: He was almost *advertising* overseas to find some children who would say they were molested... :D but didn't.

[MoonHarvest]

Mr. Jackson spends a good deal of his time in Las Vegas. Mrs. Jackson is there once in a while as well, but Encino is her primary residence.

Oh oaky. I didn't know. I thought they may live apart. Thanks.

[vonna]

Every single criminal charge brought against MJ was decided in a court of law, and he was found NOT GUILTY on each and every one of them. I can remember the prosecutor, and hope one day he will have to answer to God for his part in destroying an innocent man.

imo...of course.

Michael Jackson destroyed himself. He is not the only child to suffer abuse. Others have risen above it an gotten on with a healthy adulthood.

[NotAgain]

Michael was just a victim of all these evil people! Puh-leeze! Michael CHOSE to do what he pleased and when things got dicey, he used money and his celebrity to buy his continued freedom.

Exactly.

The only thing that separates John Wayne Gacy and Michael Jackson is JWG killed the kids.

[Great Dane]

You could believe LaToya if you want - but I can assure you Sneddon did everything he could to get children or the parents to come forward and there WERE NONE. MJ couldn't have paid anyone that kind of money without it becoming public nevermind that he didn't have the money to do so to begin with. MJ's liquid assets declined rapidly after the 1993 allegation. At the time of the 1993 allegation $15.3M was paid by his insurance company not him.


Latoya was looking for her own fame, IMO....

Who would have thought that he would have been able to pay enough people to stay quiet about the fact that the three children he had, were not his...he obviously had the means to keep certain things secret, when he wanted to.....

[CinderL.]

Didn't MJ employ a lot of local residents in that area when Neverland was up and running?

imo

I am sure that the local business would like to see it opened again....just not the residents. Too bad it isn't in my town. We could use the business.

[kellabeck]

You could believe LaToya if you want - but I can assure you Sneddon did everything he could to get children or the parents to come forward and there WERE NONE. MJ couldn't have paid anyone that kind of money without it becoming public nevermind that he didn't have the money to do so to begin with. MJ's liquid assets declined rapidly after the 1993 allegation. At the time of the 1993 allegation $15.3M was paid by his insurance company not him.

Ahem. I guess you didn't hear. It DID become public.

[MoonHarvest]

Going to lunch, will check back later.

[Great Dane]

It's been a long time since I watched that interview, but i don't remember him saying he "cuddled" with the boys in his bed. From what I recall, it was more like a "slumber party" type thing and then when it was time to sleep, MJ slept on the floor and gave the boys the bed.

Not saying that was OK, in our world it's not. But Michael was so far removed from our world that I often wonder if he could even understand how something like that would be viewed to the outside world.

There's a big difference between that and cuddling, imo.


I recall him saying that is was beautiful to "share" your bed with someone....maybe my memory is slip'n....:confused:

[NotAgain]

He was not deranged, just naive where the press were concerned, but let's not forget he was found innocent of all charges.

RIP Michael

He was found Not Guilty. BIG DIFFERENCE.

[GentleBreeze]

Making himself look guilty can also be translated as "nothing to hide". In any case, there was no evidence to support all those felony charges, and I disagree that its the job of a prosecutor to proceed with a criminal trial, for which he knows he lacks evidence, but moves forward with it anyway, out of spite and vengeance, which is what I have always believed was the case.


imo...of course.

I still cant figure out why Sneddon brought the case against MJ. Surely he knew his evidence and his witnesses were weak. Maybe he felt pressured.

I don't think MJ made himself look guilty. I think he tried his very best to tell the world how his mind thought about the sleepovers but the world couldn't relate and some used their own mindset to make it sexual.

I have never seen a pedophile talk as honestly and opening as MJ did. He tried to explain the truth of the matter. Some did not want to really listen and did not want to believe him or understand him, since in their minds any adult who has sleepovers with children do so only for sexual purposes.

I don't think MJ was a pedophile. I think he was Asexual.

imo

[VC2]

Good Interview: Anderson Cooper / Tom Mesereau

IMO Mesereau had great insight into MJs behavior:

COOPER: Today we got a taste of some of the legal battles that may be ahead for Michael Jackson's family and his children. Tom Mesereau defended Michael Jackson against charges of child molestation successfully. Jackson was acquitted on all counts. Mr. Mesereau joins me now.

As you have seen what has gone on the last several days since Michael Jackson's death, what goes through your mind?

TOM MESEREAU, FORMER JACKSON DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I was shocked when I heard he had passed. I was in the middle of a trial in downtown Los Angeles. I came out at 5:30 that afternoon, and when I heard it, I was hoping it one of the many, you know, rumors that often circulated around Michael. And unfortunately, it was not. I'm devastated by it. We've lost a very kind, gentle, wonderful person.

COOPER: You successfully defended him, as we were talking about right before the break. You spent 12 hours a day with him for many months on end. What was he like? I mean, the trial must have taken an awful lot out of him?

MESEREAU: You know, he was a very creative, gentle spirit. He was kind; he was considerate. He really thought he could change the world with music, with art, with kindness, with generosity. He was not built to go through a criminal trial like that.

He sat there facing these horrific charges: people claiming that he had masterminded a conspiracy to abduct children, to falsely imprison a family, to commit extortion, to abuse children. It was a horrifying nightmare for him. And I don't know if he ever fully recovered from it.

COOPER: Do -- I mean, we saw -- we were looking now. We're seeing pictures of him on some of the many days he came to court. There was the day he came wearing what seemed like pajama pants.

There were obviously a lot of allegations. Deepak Chopra had said in past years, Michael Jackson said he came to him asking for prescriptions for OxyContin and Demerol. To your knowledge, was Michael Jackson taking many prescription pills? Did he have a drug problem?

MESEREAU: Well, I heard rumors about this all the time. But I never saw him take any prescription drug or any other type of drug. And during the five-month-long trial, which was five days a week, he was always coherent articulate, cooperative with me. So I'm not a witness to any of this. I did hear the stories, though, repeatedly.

COOPER: I talked to some people who were involved with him in various capacities over the years, who said that at times when they talked to him, it was like talking to somebody on a satellite delay. That he appeared drugged. That did not happen to you?

MESEREAU: Never with me. He was always very lucid, very conscious, very articulate, very intelligent. And it was a pleasure to work with him and a great honor to defend him.

COOPER: What do you think -- I mean, as you look back on this, it's a question I've asked a lot of people, and I don't know that there is an answer. But what do you think happened to Michael Jackson? I mean, you look at those pictures of that young boy, so enthusiastic on stage. You know, the incredible talent he had. The incredible talent we saw in the '80s and even into the '90s. What happened?

MESEREAU: You know, when you're a sensitive artistic genius like he was, you see and feel other movements in the universe that others don't notice.

And when you're compassionate and giving as he was, and you really believe you have a gift that can change the world and make people happier and better, that clashes with the fact that you're wealthy and a celebrity and every shark on the planet wants to get to you because they see you as vulnerable.

And he ended up, I think, very skeptical about people's motives. He couldn't trust people. But at the same time he wanted to heal the universe. And I'll not sure he ever fully resolved that conflict. It was very sad.

COOPER: I talked to one person who was briefly involved with him for only, I think, a few months, who said that Michael Jackson would go days without talking to adults or having real conversations with people. That he had people around him who might, you know, ask to do something. But he didn't really have conversations or contact with a lot of people.

Was that your impression? It's a cliche to say he was incredibly lonely. What was his inner circle like? Were people looking out for his best interests?

MESEREAU: That was the problem. Michael was very distrusting of a lot of people and for good reason. And he often chose the worst people to be around him. Shallow, manipulative, not having his interests in mind. But he needed people so he often would pick people assuming they would do something to him. It was a very sad problem he had. He wanted to reach out and give. He wanted to be kind. And, yet, he was always let done down.

And it made him isolated; it made him a little bit lonely. And it shouldn't have happened to this wonderful person. But this was his burden. Success can bring tremendous burdens, and it did with Michael Jackson.

COOPER: and the news today that Katherine Jackson has been awarded temporary custody, I assume you had interactions with her. How do you feel about that?

MESEREAU: She attended every day of the trial. She's a wonderful, spiritual, giving, kind person. She was Michael's rock during that trial. I was, you know not only would see her in court every day but during breaks, very often I would be in a room with just Michael and her.

And it was very clear how much he loved her, how much she loved him. He trusted her completely. And seeing her with those children just brings a smile to me. I mean, I think it's wonderful that she's going to be taking care of these beautiful children.

COOPER: Well, he was lucky to have you as his defense attorney through the trial, and I appreciate you -- you being on the program tonight.

MESEREAU: Well, thank you for inviting me.

COOPER: Tom Mesereau, thanks very much.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0906/29/acd.01.html

omg omg i missed an interview with Mesereau?????????

:crying::crying::crying:
transcripts just don't show that gorgeous man.

Is there a youtube clip of it? I am willing to spend two hours downloading a 5 min clip if it has mesereau

p.s. i think he is absolutely right about MJ

[SDMermaid]

It's said but many broke parents will sell their kids to molesters for money




I agree.

I would not let my son get near someone who was so obviously deranged.

[NotAgain]

FGS, Michael was innocent and it was proved. He was used by those people and abused. He was a total legend and will be remembered as such. You are being way too harsh imo.

JMHO, the world is a better and safer place for children today.

[Great Dane]

Since you assume those 12 juror's didn't acquit, not because there was no evidence to properly do so, but rather because he was a celebrity, can I assume that you would do the same if serving on a jury? If you feel you are above that, I wonder what facts you can share that makes those 12 jurors less honorable than you?

While I agree that MJ was not proven guilty, celebrity or not....People such as OJ, Paris Hilton etc. did receive special treatment due to their celeb. status, it is not impossible to think that people couldn't see past his fame, or their love for him....his success spans across generations, much like a Cher or Madonna....unlike a Katy Perry who really is just this current generation....

[kellabeck]

It's been a long time since I watched that interview, but i don't remember him saying he "cuddled" with the boys in his bed. From what I recall, it was more like a "slumber party" type thing and then when it was time to sleep, MJ slept on the floor and gave the boys the bed.

Not saying that was OK, in our world it's not. But Michael was so far removed from our world that I often wonder if he could even understand how something like that would be viewed to the outside world.

There's a big difference between that and cuddling, imo.

He didn't say it, HE WAS CUDDLING with the boy while being interviewed!! Since then clips of it pixilate the boy's face. But that's the boy in the trial.

As to that piffle about Michael's sleeping on the floor---- the testimony from HIS OWN WITNESSES was that Michael slept in the bed with each boy he was bedding.

And the nonsense about how BIG his bedroom was... Michael slept with little boys in THEIR bedrooms. And in hotel bedrooms. This was his fixation. And he did it night after night after night after night, for a year or more at at time (I remember the testimony of the sister of the Australian boy Jackson romanced.)

How can you close your eyes to that? YEARS of bedding prepubescent boys. Just harmless, innocent sleepovers.

So--- Why didn't he stop?

[GentleBreeze]

Exactly.

The only thing that separates John Wayne Gacy and Michael Jackson is JWG killed the kids.

Oh good grief.:rolleyes:

Gacy was raping, murdering people and storing them under his house.

MJ hasn't ever been convicted of anything.

[kellabeck]

It was an amusement park and was opened to the public just like any other amusement park. I think he bought it in 1988 - so that means from 1988-2004 it was open to the public.

I think you are quite mistaken. Neverland was private and by invitation. It wasn't a public amusement park!

And yes, Jackson would invited groups of children to Neverland. And by some accounts of employees, he would choose boys to be his "special friend." This was how he trolled for victims. It was in the guise of helping children. It was so insidious!

[kellabeck]

That is an exaggeration as well as the use of your word "bedding" -the boy was leaning his head against MJ's shoulder -- how is that cuddling

They were holding hands!!! What normal heterosexual man would do that??

[Great Dane]

They were holding hands!!! What normal heterosexual man would do that??

With a child? In front of a camera...I think many would have done it, if they felt as though it would provide a sense of ease...

[who_is_it]

Michael was just a victim of all these evil people! Puh-leeze! Michael CHOSE to do what he pleased and when things got dicey, he used money and his celebrity to buy his continued freedom.

I don't have the energy to discuss all these matters again.

Here is the Grand Jury transcript, just a part of what others here on the thread and me have read.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/michaeljackson/021505mjgrandjury.html

After you've read these some hundred pages I would wonder if you still didn't question the inconsistency of the accuser's testimony.

Some of the contradictions summarized you find here:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/michaeljackson/010605jackson.html

It was one of the first articles I've read, mentioning for example that the accuser changed the number of alleged molestations.

[GentleBreeze]

He didn't say it, HE WAS CUDDLING with the boy while being interviewed!! Since then clips of it pixilate the boy's face. But that's the boy in the trial.

As to that piffle about Michael's sleeping on the floor---- the testimony from HIS OWN WITNESSES was that Michael slept in the bed with each boy he was bedding.

And the nonsense about how BIG his bedroom was... Michael slept with little boys in THEIR bedrooms. And in hotel bedrooms. This was his fixation. And he did it night after night after night after night, for a year or more at at time (I remember the testimony of the sister of the Australian boy Jackson romanced.)

How can you close your eyes to that? YEARS of bedding prepubescent boys. Just harmless, innocent sleepovers.

So--- Why didn't he stop?

If he wasnt doing anything wrong why would he stop?

Because he had the mind of a 12 year old child that still liked sleepovers. He had slept with his brothers growing up. They were a huge family in a small house. Evidently those were happy times for MJ. With the stringent rehearsals and his father's nostrils billowing smoke most of the time maybe this was the only time he could feel relaxed and enjoy the camaraderie of grouping up and sharing stories.

imo

[SDMermaid]

I know! I wonder what excuse his handlers would have come up with if he have lived up to his 80's and still play with boys?


Michael Jackson destroyed himself. He is not the only child to suffer abuse. Others have risen above it an gotten on with a healthy adulthood.

[SDMermaid]

Anyone that spends all that free time with kids and not adults would really throw up red flags.


I maintain more and more dirt will come out --- There was a lot swept under the rug and it's still there.

The prosecutor did have evidence and proceeded legally and the firm belief that the case was made. IMO the only reason Jackson was acquitted was because he was a celebrity. Any neighborhood guy with similar facts in evidence would be behind bars right now.

[Great Dane]

If he wasnt doing anything wrong he wouldnt have stopped what he was doing, imo.

Because he had the mind of a 12 year old child that still liked sleepovers. He had slept with his brothers growing up. They were a huge family in a small house. Evidently those were happy times for MJ. With the stringent rehearsals and his father's nostril billowing smoke most of the time maybe this was the only time he could feel relaxed and enjoy the camaraderie of grouping up and sharing stories.

imo

Children tend to be honest, unlike adults...perhaps he felt as though they were more trustworthy....not to mention that he was deprived of a childhood....while we were out at amusement parks, he was preforming in front of audiences, being solicited by women for sex....it's not so "odd" that he grew up into a recluse (sp)...

[kellabeck]

Perhaps you recall the lawsuit brought by a group of Jackson's bodyguards who claimed in their wrongful termination suit that they were fired because they "knew too much."

Jackson had to give a deposition in that suit and when it came to questions about molestation he took the Fifth.


http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19940811&slug=1924860

[NotAgain]

If he wasnt doing anything wrong why would he stop?

Because he had the mind of a 12 year old child that still liked sleepovers. He had slept with his brothers growing up. They were a huge family in a small house. Evidently those were happy times for MJ. With the stringent rehearsals and his father's nostrils billowing smoke most of the time maybe this was the only time he could feel relaxed and enjoy the camaraderie of grouping up and sharing stories.

imo

it is ok to sleep with 12 year old boys when you are 12.....
eventually, you move on.

[aproudmom]

I would like this to stay open please.....

BTW there will be a moment of silence shortly

[Great Dane]

Anyone that spends all that free time with kids and not adults would really throw up red flags.

You and I may have the opportunity to walk freely, be ourselves...but, when you are a celeb at his status, you don't....people befirend you to be famous....for their own personal gain....

[VC2]

I agree with you but I would add Tom Mesereau to that as well. I thought he shared some insight I haven't heard from others and thought it enlightening. JMO

sighs.. my tom mesereau obsession is back in full force.

dang it..can i sue the estate for it? :laugh:

[who_is_it]

They were holding hands!!! What normal heterosexual man would do that??

Soooo many straight men do so, for example in Italy and also India. It's nice to be touchy-feely with other people.

[emdragon]

Naive trust as a cause? - Maybe you forgot that the same gang teamed up in the JC case and the AV case: same psychologist, same lawyer, same prosecutor.

Neutral people with social and psychological experience (all teachers, the social workers who visited the AV family after the Bashir "docu") were told what a great friend MJ is!

Sorry I don't care who was involved in which case- The FACT remains he was accused of sexual acts and yet he continued the same behavior almost defiantly- now maybe that was because he was innocent but that isn't the point- the point is he knew what it looked like to the world and he continued it anyway, there is no way anyone wouldn't expect the rumors and new accusations to follow.

That Michael did himself- no one did it for him.

[vonna]

That is an exaggeration as well as the use of your word "bedding" -the boy was leaning his head against MJ's shoulder -- how is that cuddling

You have 2 boys who accused Jackson - you had many more that spent the night at Jackson's home that said NOTHING HAPPENED. MONEY MONEY MONEY

I'm done - IMO some people who believe MJ was guilty is a result of mass hysteria due to the word "pedophile" and it was NEVER PROVEN period.

We're having a problem with semantics here? What would you call sleeping in the same bed with little boys after giving them warm milk -or was it Jesus Juice?

[SDMermaid]

Nope you are still wrong he was found not guilty doesn't mean he was innocent people are found not guilty everyday but did the crime the DA just didn't prove it's case.:read:


FGS, Michael was innocent and it was proved. He was used by those people and abused. He was a total legend and will be remembered as such. You are being way too harsh imo.

[who_is_it]

Sorry I don't care who was involved in which case- The FACT remains he was accused of sexual acts....
<snippped>



... and acquitted. :D Fact!

[jewel6]

look at this.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31666253/ns/entertainment-access_hollywood/ :scared:

[aproudmom]

so Joe and Katherine were estranged and did not live together..also did anyone see a MJ impersonator with Joe the other night at the BET Awards if so I missed it...I AM ASKING NOT STARTING RUMORS....

[GentleBreeze]

it is ok to sleep with 12 year old boys when you are 12.....
eventually, you move on.

This is not about me. I am not MJ. Each person has their own minds. I do think growing up the way MJ did had a bearing on his need to still feel those happy times again that he had when his brothers and MJ slept together growing up. It may have been the only time MJ was really happy or felt safe with the day ending, knowing the beast (Joe) was sound asleep, where the boys could talk about their day.

To me MC was much more comfortable around children than adults.

Even though I would not do what MJ did I do understand him even if his thinking may be different than mine. I do believe him when he said there was nothing sexual going on and I also realize why that is very hard to understand.

imo

[SDMermaid]

They guy was 50 when he died how much longer was his childhood going to be:rolleyes:


Even abused children have a childhood. MJs literally stopped when he was 9 years old.

[SDMermaid]

Well if you believe what Lisa Marie says about him being a great lover lol! That would make him not asexual


I still cant figure out why Sneddon brought the case against MJ. Surely he knew his evidence and his witnesses were weak. Maybe he felt pressured.

I don't think MJ made himself look guilty. I think he tried his very best to tell the world how his mind thought about the sleepovers but the world couldn't relate and some used their own mindset to make it sexual.

I have never seen a pedophile talk as honestly and opening as MJ did. He tried to explain the truth of the matter. Some did not want to really listen and did not want to believe him or understand him, since in their minds any adult who has sleepovers with children do so only for sexual purposes.

I don't think MJ was a pedophile. I think he was Asexual.

imo

[emdragon]

Children tend to be honest, unlike adults...perhaps he felt as though they were more trustworthy....not to mention that he was deprived of a childhood....while we were out at amusement parks, he was preforming in front of audiences, being solicited by women for sex....it's not so "odd" that he grew up into a recluse (sp)...

Donny Osmond had the same childhood-performing while the rest of us were swimming at the beach, having females throw under ware at him on stage etc. and yet you don't see him behaving like a pre-teen and sleeping with 12yr olds (no matter if it was innocent or not). or any of the other odd behavior Michael had.

I have a huge problem with the "he didn't have a childhood" excuse. The "my father beat me and was a *******" that excuse I could buy.

[who_is_it]

Sorry I don't care who was involved in which case- The FACT remains he was accused of sexual acts and yet he continued the same behavior almost defiantly- now maybe that was because he was innocent but that isn't the point- the point is he knew what it looked like to the world and he continued it anyway, there is no way anyone wouldn't expect the rumors and new accusations to follow.

That Michael did himself- no one did it for him.

@ "looked like to the world"

If I read something I always scrutinize the source and its motivation. How it looks like to the world always depends on the individual's trust in certain media imo.

I expect that new rumors will come up now after his death. Some people are shady enough to make money by someone who passed away and can't defend.

[aproudmom]

Just in case anyone wants to watch here is a link...will soon have a moment of silence and Al will be talking..per CNN...WONDERFUL MUSIC IF ANYONE IS BORED OR NEEDS SOMETHING TO DO..:rolleyes:

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream2

[SDMermaid]

Nope still wrong. Read up on case law someone that is charged but found not guilty doesn't mean they are innocent always.



Not really because when he became a defendant, he was presumed innocent. Couple that with a not guilty verdict, and you are left with an innocent defendant.

[kellabeck]

Children tend to be honest, unlike adults...perhaps he felt as though they were more trustworthy....not to mention that he was deprived of a childhood....while we were out at amusement parks, he was preforming in front of audiences, being solicited by women for sex....it's not so "odd" that he grew up into a recluse (sp)...

It's amazing how people are willing and able to make excuses for such blatent behavior. Only because he's a star.

And I am reminded of something that Jackson said to Harriet Cole, editor of Ebony, in his last big interview. He related his nervousness doing that famous Moonwalk on tv and had practiced hard. He got offstage, he told Cole, and thought he had messed up, until he saw a child who gave him a thumbs up. And he told Cole that's when he knew he'd succeeded because "CHILDREN DON'T LIE."

Unless they are telling the authorities about being molested, apparently.

[dinojen]

Donny Osmond had the same childhood-performing while the rest of us were swimming at the beach, having females throw under ware at him on stage etc. and yet you don't see him behaving like a pre-teen and sleeping with 12yr olds (no matter if it was innocent or not). or any of the other odd behavior Michael had.

I have a huge problem with the "he didn't have a childhood" excuse. The "my father beat me and was a *******" that excuse I could buy.

I haven't posted much on the Jackson board.. kind of OD'ed on all the media coverage.. but.. I wouldn't even think about comparing the Jackson family to the Osmond family... totally totally different.. IMO.

They had two loving parents.. did things as a family.. the Jackson's.. that was a whole different story.. those kids were Joe's cash cows.. IMO.. He's still using his son even after his death IMOOC..

[VC2]

They were holding hands!!! What normal heterosexual man would do that??

uhh i have held the hand of many a little girl when they are in an unfamiliar situation or just skipping along!

i see nothing abnormal about that!

[NotAgain]

It's amazing how people are willing and able to make excuses for such blatent behavior. Only because he's a star.

And I am reminded of something that Jackson said to Harriet Cole, editor of Ebony, in his last big interview. He related his nervousness doing that famous Moonwalk on tv and had practiced hard. He got offstage, he told Cole, and thought he had messed up, until he saw a child who gave him a thumbs up. And he told Cole that's when he knew he'd succeeded because "CHILDREN DON'T LIE."

Unless they are telling the authorities about being molested, apparently.

Excellent point.

[aproudmom]

This is not about me. I am not MJ. Each person has their own minds. I do think growing up the way MJ did had a bearing on his need to still feel those happy times again that he had when his brothers and MJ slept together growing up. It may have been the only time MJ was really happy or felt safe with the day ending, knowing the beast (Joe) was sound asleep, where the boys could talk about their day.

To me MC was much more comfortable around children than adults.

Even though I would not do what MJ did I do understand him even if his thinking may be different than mine. I do believe him when he said there was nothing sexual going on and I also realize why that is very hard to understand.

imo

Very well said GB...I see this thread getting shut down real soon.

[SDMermaid]

Most childhoods only last until you are 18 and then you have to starting acting grownup. MJ's childhood should have ended when he had his first kid it's time to grow up be a responsible adult and pay your bills which from the looks of it he had a big problem with.


Donny Osmond had the same childhood-performing while the rest of us were swimming at the beach, having females throw under ware at him on stage etc. and yet you don't see him behaving like a pre-teen and sleeping with 12yr olds (no matter if it was innocent or not). or any of the other odd behavior Michael had.

I have a huge problem with the "he didn't have a childhood" excuse. The "my father beat me and was a *******" that excuse I could buy.

[aproudmom]

DR lawyer said the kids are hers..:confused:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31666253/ns/entertainment-access_hollywood/

[Great Dane]

It's amazing how people are willing and able to make excuses for such blatent behavior. Only because he's a star.

And I am reminded of something that Jackson said to Harriet Cole, editor of Ebony, in his last big interview. He related his nervousness doing that famous Moonwalk on tv and had practiced hard. He got offstage, he told Cole, and thought he had messed up, until he saw a child who gave him a thumbs up. And he told Cole that's when he knew he'd succeeded because "CHILDREN DON'T LIE."

Unless they are telling the authorities about being molested, apparently.

And the greedy parents had NOTHING to do with the accustations I'm sure....if you have kids, do you allow them to sleep over grown mens homes? I don't....

[who_is_it]

Children tend to be honest, unlike adults...perhaps he felt as though they were more trustworthy....not to mention that he was deprived of a childhood....while we were out at amusement parks, he was preforming in front of audiences, being solicited by women for sex....it's not so "odd" that he grew up into a recluse (sp)...

The AV wasn't a child anymore; according to ALL* his teachers he was a rude teenager.

* every teacher said the same!

[NotAgain]

DR lawyer said the kids are hers..:confused:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31666253/ns/entertainment-access_hollywood/

and they should possibly be..... i don't think they should automatically go to MJ's mom

[emdragon]

... and acquitted. :D Fact!

Guess you don't get it or else just can't seperate the concept from Michael Jackson so I'll put it another way.

If you are accused and aquitted of arson would you then run around with a gas can and match?

[kellabeck]

If he was doing this night after night after night after night....then WHY haven't more victims come forward? Especially with the money involved? There's PLENTY incentive for victims to come forward.

Look at the priest scandal.....once a few victims came forward, then they all started coming forward....especially once victims started getting settlements.

That hasn't happened in this case. Why not?

The night after night after night was with one boy at a time. And there were many payoffs over the years. Jackson would buy off the parent and the parent was --shamefully-- pimping the son.

Their silence was bought. And there's also the shame. But we'll be hearing about more, I predict.

In any case, there were enough known now to show that he was a serial sleeper-with-little-boys.

As to those who say that Jackson loved children--- But he always slept with boys, same ages, same physical types. What a coinky-dinky.

[SDMermaid]

Yeah but was it on the couch and did the girl have her head on your shoulder? When I saw that on the Bashir doc I got the chills. That boy looked in love with MJ and I'm not talking about the innocent love.

uhh i have held the hand of many a little girl when they are in an unfamiliar situation or just skipping along!

i see nothing abnormal about that!

[Great Dane]

Guess you don't get it or else just can't seperate the concept from Michael Jackson so I'll put it another way.

If you are accused and aquitted of arson would you then run around with a gas can and match?

It's not illgal to carry a gas can or a match....it's only illegal if you start a fire....but, to walk around with both and not start a fire, totally fine...was that the point you were trying to make...lol

[aproudmom]

this is good...lol..would love to be at the there
http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream2

[kellabeck]

The AV wasn't a child anymore; according to ALL* his teachers he was a rude teenager.

* every teacher said the same!

After enduring cancer and being sucked into Jackson's tawdry world and being molested, then telling the truth and then having to go through the trial, a boy versus a superstar, and with his broken family, and then after all that, he's told that the jury didn't believe him.

And you don't think that his peers didn't know who he was and teased him about it? No wonder he had a tough time adjusting. Poor kid.

But all your sympathy seems to be with the superstar who who had all the power.

[aproudmom]

Honestly -- aproudmom -- dooesn't matter -- legally they are MJ's and DR's children.

oh I know Athena was just typing what the lawyer said on CNN.

[Great Dane]

Yeah but was it on the couch and did the girl have her head on your shoulder? When I saw that on the Bashir doc I got the chills. That boy looked in love with MJ and I'm not talking about the innocent love.

Children constantly have admiration for adults that they are around, they try and emmulate them....imagine if that were you, sitting holding Michael Jackson's hand....the King of Pop, you wouldn't have been looking at him in awe? Seriously????

[who_is_it]

Guess you don't get it or else just can't seperate the concept from Michael Jackson so I'll put it another way.

If you are accused and aquitted of arson would you then run around with a gas can and match?

emdragon, I get what you mean. No, I wouldn't.

I think you wanted to tell me: If there were already allegations in the past he shouldn't have slept in the room with boys again. I agree.

Nevertheless it doesn't justify really mean and evil intentions, going as far to put someone on trial based on false allegations. The "court of the media" is another topic.

[vonna]

No, we're not having a problem, because there is no problem and the courts decided that. It is you that has the problem, get over it. Michael was a legend and always will be. May he RIP.

Please don't arrogate to yourself the right to tell me what to do.

[kellabeck]

Honestly -- aproudmom -- dooesn't matter -- legally they are MJ's and DR's children.

It is vile what the media is doing. None of them are thinking about these children - just what they can sell. They should all be ashamed of themselves.

:rose: For the children

I agree. These children have it tough enough without this pointless speculating about DNA. The three were the children of Michael Jackson regardless of their bio-origins.

[SDMermaid]

There are plenty of guilty people that go free because the DA didn't prove their case big example OJ or Robert Durst he killed his neighbor chopped him up and dumped the body and was found not guilty


http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/robert_durst/1.html



I'll read up on case law, after you read up on the constitution, which provides every defendant with the presumtion of innocence, unless it is proved otherwise.

[who_is_it]

After enduring cancer and being sucked into Jackson's tawdry world and being molested, then telling the truth and then having to go through the trial, a boy versus a superstar, and with his broken family, and then after all that, he's told that the jury didn't believe him.

And you don't think that his peers didn't know who he was and teased him about it? No wonder he had a tough time adjusting. Poor kid.

But all your sympathy seems to be with the superstar who who had all the power.

These are wrong assumptions about me. You don't know me, you also don't know what my profession is.

I told you before: I don't have the energy anymore to discuss the trial.

Read the links I've posted!

[kellabeck]

emdragon, I get what you mean. No, I wouldn't.

I think you wanted to tell me: If there were already allegations in the past he shouldn't have slept in the room with boys again. I agree.

Nevertheless it doesn't justify really mean and evil intentions, going as far to put someone on trial based on false allegations. The "court of the media" is another topic.

But that's assuming those sleepovers were innocent. Had they been, he could have stopped. Any prudent man faced with ruin-- financial, legal, reputation -- would have. BUT HE DIDN'T.

It was a C O M P U L S I O N. That's why he continued such blatently risky behavior.

[boo]

"Billie Jean Jackson" has been stalking and legally harassing Michael Jackson for years. She changed her name to "Billie Jean Jackson".

She also once tried to convince the media that she and Michael were married.

Howdy, Blackbird, I'm still trying to catch up since I came back from lunch. Yeah, I don't even try and head south of Ventura Boulevard. I park it at Gelsons and walk the block.

Saw Flava Fla there and a few others when I was there but for the most part, it was a circus. Doesn't sound like it's going to be dwindling any time soon (at least the circus atmosphere part of it).

I would love to be a fly on the wall for the reading of the Will. Yikes. :scared:

[Great Dane]

emdragon, I get what you mean. No, I wouldn't.

I think you wanted to tell me: If there were already allegations in the past he shouldn't have slept in the room with boys again. I agree.

Nevertheless it doesn't justify really mean and evil intentions, going as far to put someone on trial based on false allegations. The "court of the media" is another topic.

So, if you weren't doing anything wrong...but, were accused of it...you would stop living your life, your way, to appease people that don't do anything for you...had he stopped, people would have said he stopped because he had been caught, people that are going to talk, are going to talk...so you might as well give them soemthing to talk about IMO....

[kellabeck]

Well Kella -- we have found some common ground here. :)

I am sure that's not the only thing we can agree on, Athena. Reasonable people can agree to disagree and are willing to recognize common ground.

For example, I have never denied Jackson's talent. He was incredibly talented.

[who_is_it]

It's not illgal to carry a gas can or a match....it's only illegal if you start a fire....but, to walk around with both and not start a fire, totally fine...was that the point you were trying to make...lol

I agree with Athena. Great reply!

[emdragon]

It's not illgal to carry a gas can or a match....it's only illegal if you start a fire....but, to walk around with both and not start a fire, totally fine...was that the point you were trying to make...lol

No the point was any SANE person acquitted of arson wouldn't run out and grab a gas can and a match giving people a reason to believe the original charges were really true and you got off on a technicality.

My point was he chose to live his life the way he did regardless of how it looked or what allegations were made- so you can not then scream it was the prosecutor and media that ruined his life.
He had the means to stop it all- if he really wanted to be around children he could have simply never been left alone with them and not had them sleep in his bed.

[CinderL.]

Ok not to change the subject, well, maybe to change the subject....:laugh:


I can't imagine having a public viewing. Isn't that a little strange???:ohmy:

[SDMermaid]

My parents wouldn't have put me in that situation because of him being accused of child molestation but I can see your point.


Children constantly have admiration for adults that they are around, they try and emmulate them....imagine if that were you, sitting holding Michael Jackson's hand....the King of Pop, you wouldn't have been looking at him in awe? Seriously????

[aproudmom]

Well Kella -- we have found some common ground here. :)

I feel so bad for them all this stuff being said about their father that loved them more than anything and they loved him:crying:I wanna cry for them..and for Redmond I know he has been in alot of trouble but he is seeing his mother Farrah laid to rest today and then will have to go back to jail...which he should but hard not to cry for him also..

[Great Dane]

No the point was any SANE person acquitted of arson wouldn't run out and grab a gas can and a match giving people a reason to believe the original charges were really true and you got off on a technicality.

My point was he chose to live his life the way he did regardless of how it looked or what allegations were made- so you can not then scream it was the prosecutor and media that ruined his life.
He had the means to stop it all- if he really wanted to be around children he could have simply never been left alone with them and not had them sleep in his bed.

Your "point" was not lost on me....but, I think your point is foolish....and I'm saying that with respect for your opinion...but, if you weren't doing anything wrong...but, were accused of it...you would stop living your life, your way, to appease people that don't do anything for you...had he stopped, people would have said he stopped because he had been caught, people that are going to talk, are going to talk...so you might as well give them soemthing to talk about IMO....

[kellabeck]

These are wrong assumptions about me. You don't know me, you also don't know what my profession is.

I told you before: I don't have the energy anymore to discuss the trial.

Read the links I've posted!

All I said about you was that your sympathy seems to lie with Jackson.

Mine is with those I believe to be his victims. And all the more because they were sold out by their parents.

[SDMermaid]

YES! Too creepy for me!


Ok not to change the subject, well, maybe to change the subject....:laugh:


I can't imagine having a public viewing. Isn't that a little strange???:ohmy:

[SDMermaid]

I'm with you I'm not blinded by money and talent


All I said about you was that your sympathy seems to lie with Jackson.

Mine is with those I believe to be his victims. And all the more because they were sold out by their parents.

[vonna]

All I said about you was that your sympathy seems to lie with Jackson.

Mine is with those I believe to be his victims. And all the more because they were sold out by their parents.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

[Great Dane]

My parents wouldn't have put me in that situation because of him being accused of child molestation but I can see your point.

Agreed, the parents put those children, in that position, for profit....whether the accusations warrented merit or not...they were placing their children in potentially dangerous situations for profitable gain...they should have been placed in jail...>perhpas Michael related to those kids, because theat is what Joe Jackson did to him....

[aproudmom]

Michael Jackson's Inner-Child

"SMILE" (A Must See - no matter what you think of MJ)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OgQxhAXu5g

you must have been reading my mind was just getting ready to go listen to that...

[CinderL.]

YES! Too creepy for me!

You would think he was a Head of State or something. This whole thing is getting stranger and stranger.
He was a great entertainer but, really, too much.

[VC2]

I remember your "hots" for TM too. :tonguewag:

:blushing::blushing: i guess i never hid it to well

[kellabeck]

I feel so bad for them all this stuff being said about their father that loved them more than anything and they loved him:crying:I wanna cry for them..and for Redmond I know he has been in alot of trouble but he is seeing his mother Farrah laid to rest today and then will have to go back to jail...which he should but hard not to cry for him also..

I feel for all these kids. But I believe that Redmond has drug issues and isn't he locked up for using? Unless I'm wrong and he was some big-time pusher... I believe that treatment should be the way to go. But OTOH, I don't think this was his first time at that rodeo, and maybe the judge is using some tough love on him. Look how many relapses it took for Robert Downey Jr to clean up his act.
I hope that this time Redmond straightens his life out.

[SDMermaid]

Ok how many of adults on here have a book of naked boys that isn't your own children?


Children up to 10 maybe ---- older children - absolutely not. They lie

Wonder what he'd say about a street-wise 15 year old who comes from a family of grifters or a 13 year old who was given sodium penethol by his father who planted false memories. :rolleyes:

[imc_e]

This is a memorial thread for a great entertainer.

Its not the place to discuss allegations or trial.

I would appreciate being able to come on this forum throughout the grief process, without reading about fights that can never and will never EVER be resolved.

Rest in peace Michael Jackson :rose:

Out of respect for the dead I hope other posters can follow in suit and in the very least put posters on ignore instead of fighting with them.

Thank you from myself, and other lurkers.

[missinglink]

Howdy, Blackbird, I'm still trying to catch up since I came back from lunch. Yeah, I don't even try and head south of Ventura Boulevard. I park it at Gelsons and walk the block.

Saw Flava Fla there and a few others when I was there but for the most part, it was a circus. Doesn't sound like it's going to be dwindling any time soon (at least the circus atmosphere part of it).

I would love to be a fly on the wall for the reading of the Will. Yikes. :scared:

JMO, but the Will will surely be contested. If Michael's father was left out of the Will, he'll probably try and claim that Michael wasn't of sound mind when it was drawn up or was unduely influenced. (It probably won't change things but I do think he will contest it.)

The probate of the Will might take a long time. The average time is 6 to 12 months. I think it will be several years to settle things.

If he set up trusts, we may never know the exact details. JMO.

[kellabeck]

I respect your opinion Kellabeck even though we have disagreed. As you can tell I don't have you on ignore and I don't say that lightly.
MJ's judgement now lies with God. :)

Thank you, Athena. I take that as a compliment. I make no bones about my very strong opinions but I try to express them respectfully and thoughtfully and factually. Thanks. I respect your opinion, too.

[CinderL.]

It is now my favorite !!!!! I have it bookmarked on my toolbar.

Thanks CinderL :)

You are very welcome.

:smile:

[emdragon]

Your "point" was not lost on me....but, I think your point is foolish....and I'm saying that with respect for your opinion...but, if you weren't doing anything wrong...but, were accused of it...you would stop living your life, your way, to appease people that don't do anything for you...had he stopped, people would have said he stopped because he had been caught, people that are going to talk, are going to talk...so you might as well give them soemthing to talk about IMO....

With all the same respect you had for my opinion.

You do miss the point- the original post I responded to was that the prosecutor ruined Micheal's Life. That is incorrect because Michael always had the option to change his behavior, or to take precautions to prevent the implication of wrong doing.

Heck I'm not even arguing guilt or innocence here just on who is to blame for all the accusations- and to try take that responsibility away from Michael Jackson is ridiculous.

[SDMermaid]

Yep all the kids he was accused of being with had a physical type he liked. All those famous kids that said that MJ didn't molest them didn't fit the bill MJ went after kids that had a single parent and that needed the money IMO


The night after night after night was with one boy at a time. And there were many payoffs over the years. Jackson would buy off the parent and the parent was --shamefully-- pimping the son.

Their silence was bought. And there's also the shame. But we'll be hearing about more, I predict.

In any case, there were enough known now to show that he was a serial sleeper-with-little-boys.

As to those who say that Jackson loved children--- But he always slept with boys, same ages, same physical types. What a coinky-dinky.

[kellabeck]

JMO, but the Will will surely be contested. If Michael's father was left out of the Will, he'll probably try and claim that Michael wasn't of sound mind when it was drawn up or was unduely influenced. (It probably won't change things but I do think he will contest it.)

The probate of the Will might take a long time. The average time is 6 to 12 months. I think it will be several years to settle things.

If he set up trusts, we may never know the exact details. JMO.

Maybe not! Maybe he thinks his way into the $$$ is through Katherine!! Contesting the will will only prolong matters, cost a lot of money, and probably wouldn't succeed. Much easier just to get along and try to get his way through his wife.

[aproudmom]

I respect your opinion Kellabeck even though we have disagreed. As you can tell I don't have you on ignore and I don't say that lightly. :)

I guess I should check and see if I am on your ignore..lol:wink:

[CinderL.]

This is a memorial thread for a great entertainer.

Its not the place to discuss allegations or trial.

I would appreciate being able to come on this forum throughout the grief process, without reading about fights that can never and will never EVER be resolved.

Rest in peace Michael Jackson :rose:

Out of respect for the dead I hope other posters can follow in suit and in the very least put posters on ignore instead of fighting with them.

Thank you from myself, and other lurkers.

Actually I think there is another thread for memorials. This one is for talking about MJ and all of the surrounding issues. IMO

[Great Dane]

With all the same respect you had for my opinion.

You do miss the point- the original post I responded to was that the prosecutor ruined Micheal's Life. That is incorrect because Michael always had the option to change his behavior, or to take precautions to prevent the implication of wrong doing.

Heck I'm not even arguing guilt or innocence here just on who is to blame for all the accusations- and to try take that responsibility away from Michael Jackson is ridiculous.

Your implication was that MJ made matters worse by not comforming into doing what other people viewed as acceptable....and by continuing his relations with young children...you compared him to an arsonist, walking around with a gas can and a match....

[NotAgain]

sometimes the appearance of an impropriety can be just as bad for you as an actual impropriety.

[SDMermaid]

I think the point is that a person wouldn't be repeating the behavior that they were accused of in the first place like MJ kept hanging out with boys alone and saying it's ok for an adult to sleep in bed with children. Now any sane person in the real world wouldn't allow their kids to hang out with the single male neighbor for sleepovers would they?

It's not illgal to carry a gas can or a match....it's only illegal if you start a fire....but, to walk around with both and not start a fire, totally fine...was that the point you were trying to make...lol

[kellabeck]

This is a memorial thread for a great entertainer.

Its not the place to discuss allegations or trial.

I would appreciate being able to come on this forum throughout the grief process, without reading about fights that can never and will never EVER be resolved.

Rest in peace Michael Jackson :rose:

Out of respect for the dead I hope other posters can follow in suit and in the very least put posters on ignore instead of fighting with them.

Thank you from myself, and other lurkers.

I'm sorry but you are mistaken. There is a thread for only positive remembrances. This is a thread for discussing everything. Although you may not be reading this apparently.

[emdragon]

I feel for all these kids. But I believe that Redmond has drug issues and isn't he locked up for using? Unless I'm wrong and he was some big-time pusher... I believe that treatment should be the way to go. But OTOH, I don't think this was his first time at that rodeo, and maybe the judge is using some tough love on him. Look how many relapses it took for Robert Downey Jr to clean up his act.
I hope that this time Redmond straightens his life out.

proudmom was not saying Redmond shouldn't be locked up- just that she felt bad for him at the loss of his mother- just as she feels bad for Micheal's 3 children.

I am assuming that CA must be the same as WA- prisoners must pay for their own security and they get the choice of either going to the deathbed or the funeral. Hard choice.

[CinderL.]

I guess I should check and see if I am on your ignore..lol:wink:

I don't think anyone is ever really on Ignore, because you can't tell me that everyone doesn't peek. :laugh::laugh:

[kellabeck]

Your implication was that MJ made matters worse by not comforming into doing what other people viewed as acceptable....and by continuing his relations with young children...you compared him to an arsonist, walking around with a gas can and a match....

Yes.
And thank goodness that most people do not find it acceptable to sleep with stranger's little boys.

And his relations that were objectionable were all with BOYS. Not "children." No girls. BOYS. All around the same age. All pretty much looking the same.

[SDMermaid]

If she is the real bio mom and MJ is the real bio dad then why is the docs sealed and Debbie was paid a lot off money not to talk about how the children were made?


oh I know Athena was just typing what the lawyer said on CNN.

[missinglink]

Maybe not! Maybe he thinks his way into the $$$ is through Katherine!! Contesting the will will only prolong matters, cost a lot of money, and probably wouldn't succeed. Much easier just to get along and try to get his way through his wife.

Well, I've thought about that too. I know his way into $$$ would be through Katherine, but his ego may get him to contest it. I agree with what you're saying. It could go either way. And yes, contesting it would really prolong it. I know. A probate I'm going through right now has been going on for 13 months now, in Los Angeles Superior Court.

Ego vs. Money for Joe, JMO.

[Great Dane]

I think the point is that a person wouldn't be repeating the behavior that they were accused of in the first place like MJ kept hanging out with boys alone and saying it's ok for an adult to sleep in bed with children. Now any sane person in the real world wouldn't allow their kids to hang out with the single male neighbor for sleepovers would they?

If I were accused of being a husband stealer...but, I never did anything with anyone's husband...should I never hang around a married man again- because that makes other people uncomfortable?????

If people have an opinion, they are going to continue to have an opinion...and if I avoided married men all together, some would say that was an admission of guilt as well....:tonguewag:

[kellabeck]

proudmom was not saying Redmond shouldn't be locked up- just that she felt bad for him at the loss of his mother- just as she feels bad for Micheal's 3 children.

I am assuming that CA must be the same as WA- prisoners must pay for their own security and they get the choice of either going to the deathbed or the funeral. Hard choice.

Yes, I know what proudmom was saying and what I was saying was that maybe Red shouldn't be in jail. I don't know.

[aproudmom]

I feel for all these kids. But I believe that Redmond has drug issues and isn't he locked up for using? Unless I'm wrong and he was some big-time pusher... I believe that treatment should be the way to go. But OTOH, I don't think this was his first time at that rodeo, and maybe the judge is using some tough love on him. Look how many relapses it took for Robert Downey Jr to clean up his act.
I hope that this time Redmond straightens his life out.

I wont even get into that I knew I should not have even said that..I was just saying I felt for all these kids...yes he is in for drugs and I hope he can get the help he so needs

[kellabeck]

I think the point is that a person wouldn't be repeating the behavior that they were accused of in the first place like MJ kept hanging out with boys alone and saying it's ok for an adult to sleep in bed with children. Now any sane person in the real world wouldn't allow their kids to hang out with the single male neighbor for sleepovers would they?

ITA. And I reiterate that it's MO that he couldn't stop. It was a compulsion.

[emdragon]

Agreed, the parents put those children, in that position, for profit....whether the accusations warrented merit or not...they were placing their children in potentially dangerous situations for profitable gain...they should have been placed in jail...>perhpas Michael related to those kids, because theat is what Joe Jackson did to him....

I agree. Especially after the first allegation. Why would any parent take the chance. And then to later claim surprise while filing police reports.

That is like walking up to a dog, having the owner tell you "don't touch him he will bite" and ignoring it, the dog bites you and then you go and sue the owner. (can ya buy that example ;))

[SDMermaid]

Flava Flav is funny but he is nasty and his show was so trashy lol!



Howdy, Blackbird, I'm still trying to catch up since I came back from lunch. Yeah, I don't even try and head south of Ventura Boulevard. I park it at Gelsons and walk the block.

Saw Flava Fla there and a few others when I was there but for the most part, it was a circus. Doesn't sound like it's going to be dwindling any time soon (at least the circus atmosphere part of it).

I would love to be a fly on the wall for the reading of the Will. Yikes. :scared:

[aproudmom]

Funny -- civil debate is good as long as it is respectful. :)

omg storm kills Jackson tribute coverage..O it is back on CNN...I am civil I think I try to be..

[Great Dane]

If I were accused of being a husband stealer...but, I never did anything with anyone's husband...should I never hang around a married man again- because that makes other people uncomfortable?????

If people have an opinion, they are going to continue to have an opinion...and if I avoided married men all together, some would say that was an admission of guilt as well....

Furthermore, Michael married Lisa Marie and people still made comments that he was a homosexual....>proof of my point

[kellabeck]

I wont even get into that I knew I should not have even said that..I was just saying I felt for all these kids...yes he is in for drugs and I hope he can get the help he so needs

Yes! We agree. Wasn't it heartbreaking to see him visiting his mother, lying so sick in bed, while wearing his leg shackles?? And she didn't recognize him! So sad!
Ryan-- who can be such a jerk -- said something really good to him, that maybe he could reorganize his life as a tribute to her. And maybe he can. Maybe Ryan could, too. Although I have to say he came through for Farrah, didn't he?

Sorry to digress. But the burden so often falls on the children and I just hate to see that. I wish them well. How wonderful it would be for them to live happy and productive lives!

[NotAgain]

If I were accused of being a husband stealer...but, I never did anything with anyone's husband...should I never hang around a married man again- because that makes other people uncomfortable?????

If people have an opinion, they are going to continue to have an opinion...and if I avoided married men all together, some would say that was an admission of guilt as well....:tonguewag:

stealing a husband is not a 'crime', sleeping with little boys is

[aproudmom]

I agree kella. I was reading a post somewhere on this board (not MJ) where one of the states has actually split out their courts for violent and non-violent offenders who are referred to treatment programs as opposed to giving them jailtime. I thought it was a good idea.

he is in intensive drug treatment from the last I heard and his family did pay for him to go to the funeral today I hope he can get the help he needs..it is common unless your in for murder

[Great Dane]

stealing a husband is not a 'crime', sleeping with little boys is

"Both" are acts which cause people to talk....you can't conform to please others....

[kellabeck]

I agree kella. I was reading a post somewhere on this board (not MJ) where one of the states has actually split out their courts for violent and non-violent offenders who are referred to treatment programs as opposed to giving them jailtime. I thought it was a good idea.

I agree. And the money that is spent on incarceration! I don't understand why the violent, the predators, aren't just locked up forever and some other creative punishment could be meted out to the non-violent?

[SDMermaid]

Are you close to his age? Because I'm 35 and I don't find him hot at all:laugh:

:blushing::blushing: i guess i never hid it to well

[imc_e]

Here is the Memorial Thread:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=355391

Thanks, this is not the right place for me.

I can't speak disrespectful to the dead, but hey , have at er.

Enjoy yourselves. :unsure:

[who_is_it]

So, if you weren't doing anything wrong...but, were accused of it...you would stop living your life, your way, to appease people that don't do anything for you...had he stopped, people would have said he stopped because he had been caught, people that are going to talk, are going to talk...so you might as well give them soemthing to talk about IMO....

Athena yesterday quoted about Mark Lester (post #523):

"The Daily Mail today apologised to former Oliver! child actor Mark Lester at the high court and agreed to pay him a five-figure sum in damages. The newspaper had printed allegations falsely accusing him of assaulting his ex-wife and allowing his son to sleep in the same bedroom as Michael Jackson."

I replied (post #574):

"(Not only related to Michael Jackson) but in general: If someone doesn't have the financial means and/or power to sue the fake story becomes reality in the readers' minds."

Imo it's best to fight false allegations at an early stage but for different reasons people sometimes don't / can't do so. Mesereau said it was MJ's biggest mistake not to fight the false allegations of JC.

My reply to emdragon wasn't well considered and somehow superficial. Like I said before: You're post hit the nail.

[CinderL.]

Thanks, this is not the right place for me.

I can't speak disrespectful to the dead, but hey , have at er.

Enjoy yourselves. :unsure:

Thanks......

[aproudmom]

Yes! We agree. Wasn't it heartbreaking to see him visiting his mother, lying so sick in bed, while wearing his leg shackles?? And she didn't recognize him! So sad!
Ryan-- who can be such a jerk -- said something really good to him, that maybe he could reorganize his life as a tribute to her. And maybe he can. Maybe Ryan could, too. Although I have to say he came through for Farrah, didn't he?

Sorry to digress. But the burden so often falls on the children and I just hate to see that. I wish them well. How wonderful it would be for them to live happy and productive lives!

very sad..his daddy had no right telling him to straighten up he got busted also just did not break probation..sorry not a Ryan fan..lol..I was not a huge MJ fan after all the allegations so I had alot of the same feelings as some of you but I guess at this time I am just thinking of his children who have got to be so lost right now..I wish and pray for all of the them...:crying:

[VC2]

Yes, I know what proudmom was saying and what I was saying was that maybe Red shouldn't be in jail. I don't know.

omg we agree on something! I don't think people who use drugs for their personal use should be put in jail. It takes up room and space and often people come out worse rather than better considering all the abuse in prison (not all have the opportunity or type of family help that robert downey jr. had, many return to terrible enviroments).

I would have no problem if they instead were sentenced to 3 months to a year of inpatient drug abuse treatment center at the states cost if they cannot or their family cannot pay for it. (it costs to have them in prison anyway, at least a treatment center might really ensure they don;t continue the revolving door)

Laws needs to be changed and not always to be more strict but more in tune with what might work and what makes sense. I would rather have real criminals in prison

IMO

[who_is_it]

All I said about you was that your sympathy seems to lie with Jackson.

Mine is with those I believe to be his victims. And all the more because they were sold out by their parents.

For different reasons we agree about the parents! At least some kind of agreement!

:thumbsup:

[aproudmom]

But he's in for smuggling drugs into a jail. On a visit. He's also heavily into heroin.

imo

ok sorry I ever said a word....wrong time wrong place sorry..

[SDMermaid]

You aren't seeing the point would you allow your kids to have sleep overs with the grown single male adult that doesn't have kids and is always hanging with kids and not adults? That just raises red flags and any parent should be ashamed of themselves for not protecting their kids for molesters. And the accuse these parents say is oh well he was a friend and he would never do that. I blame the kid's parents as much as I blame MJ.


If I were accused of being a husband stealer...but, I never did anything with anyone's husband...should I never hang around a married man again- because that makes other people uncomfortable?????

If people have an opinion, they are going to continue to have an opinion...and if I avoided married men all together, some would say that was an admission of guilt as well....:tonguewag:

[Mimi428]

The more facts you know about Jackson, the clearer the picture becomes, imo.

<snipped>

And the more you know about pedophiles & the various & sundry ways they groom their targets & the families of their targets, the easier it is to recognize how all those elements were present, in staggering amounts.

JMO

[Ice Cycle]

Forgive if this has already been posed.

Jackson family lawyer says will has surfaced

Published: 6/30/09, 5:26 PM EDT
By NEKESA MUMBI MOODY


http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=7403&eeid=6655607&_sitecat=1479&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=ne&s=en&rg=blsadstrgt&l=hm

[aproudmom]

Well I haven't spoken disrespectful of MJ and hope I did not offend you but yes the discussions can get heated. Take Care.

I had to turn on my A/C it was getting very hot..:wink:

[VC2]

Are you close to his age? Because I'm 35 and I don't find him hot at all:laugh:

I am 45 and think he is absolutely gorgeous! Plus he exudes a sense of power and confidence that in itself is "hot" i almost said power and control but that might say to much lol.

I have always found men in the 40s to 60's more attractive overall. They have a better sense of self and lost the pretty boy look. Mesereau also has a high level of intelligence..add that to his looks..gahhhhh

5 months of watching him..what job he did for Michael Jackson. His cross and direct exams were superb, his research team were some of the best i have seen.

IMO

[bkwits]

Or someone with a bad case of arrested development wants to be with kids because mentally he is still there.

Just don't know.

Arressted development -- Isn't that what pedophilia comes from?

http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia.html

Most pedophiles do like to be around children, and they don't choose to molest most of them. They choose the vulnerable ones of the age and gender that they are attracted to.

IMO

[aproudmom]

OK I posted the live feed on Farrah's thread not sure how much you will see it is private but alot were asking and felt she did not get any coverage since MJ so anyway I should have kept that stuff on her thread instead of this one was just being a mother feeling for the kids who lost their parents....SORRY MY FAULT..

[SDMermaid]

I always thought Michael might be gay and just because he married a woman doesn't make him straight. There are plenty of men that hide who they really are by marrying to fit in.


If I were accused of being a husband stealer...but, I never did anything with anyone's husband...should I never hang around a married man again- because that makes other people uncomfortable?????

If people have an opinion, they are going to continue to have an opinion...and if I avoided married men all together, some would say that was an admission of guilt as well....

Furthermore, Michael married Lisa Marie and people still made comments that he was a homosexual....>proof of my point

[aproudmom]

Why are you sorry? :confused:

I got off topic and was wrong so was just saying sorry..didn't want to cause problems..

[bkwits]

Would you say that it was not proven in a court of law that Orenthal Simpson slaughtered Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman? Yes, he was acquitted, but if you followed the evidence, you have an opinion, I am sure.

Just as in that case, although the molestation trial was not televised, I followed the evidence as closely as I could, and imo, he WAS proven guilty although that jury, like Simpson's, refused to convict the celebrity.

The more facts you know about Jackson, the clearer the picture becomes, imo.

I agree. His actions perfectly mirror the pedophiles. Only MJ could get away with sleeping with young boys and saying it was "innocent." The single guy that lives around the corner from me would be in jail if he did that and there were accusations. IMO

[SDMermaid]

I married some eye candy my husband is 28 and use to be a model (I like the pretty guys):thumbsup: I have a friend like you that goes for the smart guys she finds them sexy.


I am 45 and think he is absolutely gorgeous! Plus he exudes a sense of power and confidence that in itself is "hot" i almost said power and control but that might say to much lol.

I have always found men in the 40s to 60's more attractive overall. They have a better sense of self and lost the pretty boy look. Mesereau also has a high level of intelligence..add that to his looks..gahhhhh

5 months of watching him..what job he did for Michael Jackson. His cross and direct exams were superb, his research team were some of the best i have seen.

IMO

[bkwits]

If I were accused of being a husband stealer...but, I never did anything with anyone's husband...should I never hang around a married man again- because that makes other people uncomfortable?????

If people have an opinion, they are going to continue to have an opinion...and if I avoided married men all together, some would say that was an admission of guilt as well....:tonguewag:

Well, if you were sleeping with other womens' husbands, and refused to stop, I would consider that an admission of guilt.

IMO

[aproudmom]

ok CNN said the tox could be back tomorrow they are full of it..or maybe not but they seem to think they know what killed him they are just not saying...

[flipflop]

Neverland Reps: Watch Out, Santa Barbara

The letter -- sent by a rep for Colony Capital, LLC -- calls Neverland a "temporary sanctuary" for Michael Jackson fans who "will come, with or without permission or an invitation."

The doc also addresses Neverland's dark past by saying, "As we all know, the impressions left by Michael's last interaction with Santa Barbara County were not positive." But it goes on to say, "Michael was accused, tried and acquitted in our county and found innocent on all counts."


http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/neverland-reps-watch-out-santa-barbara/

[aproudmom]

Fans with tickets to Michael Jackson's London concert series are reportedly furious at an offer by the concert promoter that they keep the unusable tickets as a momento, instead of receiving a refund.

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/people/fans-furious-at-ticket-offer-as-promoter-talks-up-jackson-family-tribute-concert-20090701-d43b.html

I am sure they will be on Ebay if I was a big fan I would keep it..

[SDMermaid]

Because of being famous he got away with it for a long time before someone came foward. If MJ didn't molest those kids then I feel bad that he had to go thru false reports but if he is guilty then I hope he doesn't RIP.


I agree. His actions perfectly mirror the pedophiles. Only MJ could get away with sleeping with young boys and saying it was "innocent." The single guy that lives around the corner from me would be in jail if he did that and there were accusations. IMO

[aproudmom]

Michael Jackson had wrapped up work on a project called the "Dome Project" two weeks before his death. The video piece was set to be part of a massive 3D spectacle that would run behind him during his upcoming London concerts. The production would flash images, some inspired by the Thriller area, behind him in 3D while he performed.

http://www.411mania.com/music/news/108833/Details-Revealed-On-Michael-Jackson%5C%5Cs-%5C%5CDome-Project%5C%5C.htm

I saw that this morning

[vonna]

You would think he was a Head of State or something. This whole thing is getting stranger and stranger.
He was a great entertainer but, really, too much.

Isn't that the truth and you can bet dollars to donuts that Joe will milk it for all it is worth.

[aproudmom]

Would you say that it was not proven in a court of law that Orenthal Simpson slaughtered Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman? Yes, he was acquitted, but if you followed the evidence, you have an opinion, I am sure.

Just as in that case, although the molestation trial was not televised, I followed the evidence as closely as I could, and imo, he WAS proven guilty although that jury, like Simpson's, refused to convict the celebrity.

The more facts you know about Jackson, the clearer the picture becomes, imo.

:scared:not even going there..

[SDMermaid]

I would get my money back and donate it to some animal charity.


I am sure they will be on Ebay if I was a big fan I would keep it..

[aproudmom]

Law enforcement sources tell TMZ upwards of a 30 car motorcade -- including Jackson's body -- will be traveling from Los Angeles to Neverland at 10 AM on Thursday.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/jacksons-body-to-return-to-neverland/

You know what that made me think of when he would go to the trial and helicopters would follow him all the way there..don't know why but it brought all that back when they said it this morning..

[SDMermaid]

Don't waste your time trying to explain to someone that idolizes MJ that have selective hearing:laugh:

That's not true. I also read the transcripts everyday, as well as, a professional background treating child victims of sexual abuse so I am very familiar with pedophiles and their behavior.

Did you used to post during the MJ trial as summer and jenny? Whatever happened to CowGirl?

[aproudmom]

Left his did out, gee I wonder way?

they predicted that on CNN earlier..:biggrin:

[norwood]

Not really because when he became a defendant, he was presumed innocent. Couple that with a not guilty verdict, and you are left with an innocent defendant.

Actually in our legal system you are acquited. Not found innocent. It means you were not found guilty of the charges before the court and the jury did not bring a guilty verdict.

In England, under the Queens Bench system, you can be found not guilty and innocent with out a stain upon your character.

He was not found innocent, he simply was not found guilty. Does not mean he was innocent.

[VC2]

Michael Jackson's will: Leaves estate to mom, kids, charity

This will names as executors lawyer John Branca and a veteran music executive named John McClain who was also a friend of Mr. Jackson.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124632881534571569.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124632881534571569.html

YES! smart move!

[VC2]

That's not true. I also read the transcripts everyday, as well as, a professional background treating child victims of sexual abuse so I am very familiar with pedophiles and their behavior.

Did you used to post during the MJ trial as summer and jenny? Whatever happened to CowGirl?

oh my, now i wonder if you really did read the transcripts. You don't remember athena who would type out the transcripts daily side by side with the reporting to debunk it?

[vonna]

Fans with tickets to Michael Jackson's London concert series are reportedly furious at an offer by the concert promoter that they keep the unusable tickets as a momento, instead of receiving a refund.

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/people/fans-furious-at-ticket-offer-as-promoter-talks-up-jackson-family-tribute-concert-20090701-d43b.html

Who can blame them? How self-serving can the promoters get?

[CinderL.]

Neverland Reps: Watch Out, Santa Barbara

The letter -- sent by a rep for Colony Capital, LLC -- calls Neverland a "temporary sanctuary" for Michael Jackson fans who "will come, with or without permission or an invitation."

The doc also addresses Neverland's dark past by saying, "As we all know, the impressions left by Michael's last interaction with Santa Barbara County were not positive." But it goes on to say, "Michael was accused, tried and acquitted in our county and found innocent on all counts."


http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/30/neverland-reps-watch-out-santa-barbara/

Wow, interesting letter.

[vonna]

Don't waste your time trying to explain to someone that idolizes MJ that have selective hearing:laugh:

I wonder how many of these vigorous supporters would permit their sons to sleep over?

[who_is_it]

Michael Jackson's will: Leaves estate to mom, kids, charity

This will names as executors lawyer John Branca and a veteran music executive named John McClain who was also a friend of Mr. Jackson.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124632881534571569.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124632881534571569.html

"Mr. Jackson had rehired Mr. Branca the week before his death last Thursday."

It was probably Mr Phillips' effort that he hired back his old lawyer.

article, published on May 31 -- before his death:

"Phillips's main worry has been how to keep Jackson away “from all these characters I have to fend off from his past". (...) Jackson has tried to reconvene what he calls 'the old team' — that is, his collaborators from the glory days of the 1980s. Frank DiLeo, his former manager, who, according to Phillips, 'has a real good way of dealing with Michael', is back on board."

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article6372171.ece?token=null&offset=24&page=3

Dileo's and Phillip's reactions and words after Michael's death was so classy -- considering that they're financially in big trouble even more.

[CinderL.]

Here is a question for you all.............Do you think they will let Joe talk at the services? :wink:

[CinderL.]

"Mr. Jackson had rehired Mr. Branca the week before his death last Thursday."

It was probably Mr Phillips' effort that he hired back his old lawyer.

article, published on May 31 -- before his death:

"Phillips's main worry has been how to keep Jackson away “from all these characters I have to fend off from his past". (...) Jackson has tried to reconvene what he calls 'the old team' — that is, his collaborators from the glory days of the 1980s. Frank DiLeo, his former manager, who, according to Phillips, 'has a real good way of dealing with Michael', is back on board."

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article6372171.ece?token=null&offset=24&page=3

Dileo's and Phillip's reactions and words after Michael's death was so classy -- considering that they're financially in big trouble even more.

That is sad. It sounds like he was kind of getting his life in order again. Or trying to.

[nsm]

does anyone know if they are still Jehovah's Witnesses?

[vonna]

Here is a question for you all.............Do you think they will let Joe talk at the services? :wink:

Is there a way to shut him up?

[CinderL.]

I hope not; he'll want to promote his new record company. :scared:

:laugh: That was my thinking. I wonder if it is possible to muzzle the guy.

[who_is_it]

I am 45 and think he is absolutely gorgeous! Plus he exudes a sense of power and confidence that in itself is "hot" i almost said power and control but that might say to much lol.

I have always found men in the 40s to 60's more attractive overall. They have a better sense of self and lost the pretty boy look. Mesereau also has a high level of intelligence..add that to his looks..gahhhhh

5 months of watching him..what job he did for Michael Jackson. His cross and direct exams were superb, his research team were some of the best i have seen.

IMO

did you once see him "live" in a court room?

[Cardinal]

I never claimed he was homosexual ...I said he was a pedophile. IMO

I don't believe he was. Not because I'm a "fan" - until last weekend, I hadn't listened to his music in 20 years - or because I have selective hearing. I don't believe he was because I followed the trial, I've read the articles, and it wasn't proven. Not to me, and not to the jury.

[ahlou3]

Here is a question for you all.............Do you think they will let Joe talk at the services? :wink:

Can't imagine why would the father (like him or not) speak at the funeral.

[CinderL.]

Is there a way to shut him up?

I think if Joe wants to talk, Joe is going to talk. Look how Al tried to control him, and that sure didn't work. :laugh:

[Cardinal]

Here is a question for you all.............Do you think they will let Joe talk at the services? :wink:

Oh, yeah, he'll be large and in charge. I don't think anyone could stop him.

[flipflop]

Is there a way to shut him up?

I doubt it.

[CinderL.]

Can't imagine why would the father (like him or not) speak at the funeral.

A lot of family members speak at funerals. Ten bucks says he speaks. :wink:

[who_is_it]

That is sad. It sounds like he was kind of getting his life in order again. Or trying to.

Yep, this is sooooooooo sad. I know this link I posted since it was published on May 31. I was following the progress of the rehearsals as I wanted to get a ticket by ebay.

I already had a good impression about Phillips back then and thought the same like you: "FINALLY he's getting his life in order again. He's surrounded by good people now!"

The time of his death seems to be so unfair. If he only could have been on stage for one single show!!!

[CinderL.]

Does this mean we shouldn't expect to see you there?

No, I just won't be able to make it.

[who_is_it]

I think if Joe wants to talk, Joe is going to talk. Look how Al tried to control him, and that sure didn't work. :laugh:

It would end up in a disaster. The media would ask him why he's left out of MJ's will, then he's in anger, says inappropriate words, people boo....

[RootBeer]

Michael Jackson Fan Documentary Provides Ultimate Eulogy

WE ARE THE CHILDREN is a documentary film that dives deep inside the world of a group of Michael Jackson fans during the 2004-05 trial. The story delves beyond the tabloidesque media coverage of the crazy fan to uncover the human faces of the dedicated supporter. Following a group of California fans from dance parties on Hollywood Blvd to court proceedings in Santa Maria, and vigils at Neverland, WE ARE THE CHILDREN brings some three-dimensionality to people often written off as humorous freaks. The nonjudgmental, unflinching eye of the camera documents fan club gatherings, music collections and impersonators, as fans tell personal tales of inspiration about the King of Pop.

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/watch/we_are_the_children/

Thanks for posting, I will check it out later.

[LiLMaggie]

Don't waste your time trying to explain to someone that idolizes MJ that have selective hearing:laugh:

I think this post is very unfair. Athena has a different opinion than you, and there is nothing wrong with that. She has a right to express it the same as you, and should'nt have to deal with posts like this for it.

IMO

[vonna]

Umm, I realize he was not found innocent. What you and others fail to realize or acknowledge is that as a defendant he was cloaked in a presumption of innocence beginning the moment criminal charges were filed against him. That presumption of innocence is affirmed with a not guilty verdict.

imo... of course.

What a classic example of a rationalization!!

[Cardinal]

Umm, I realize he was not found innocent. What you and others fail to realize or acknowledge is that as a defendant he was cloaked in a presumption of innocence beginning the moment criminal charges were filed against him. That presumption of innocence is affirmed with a not guilty verdict.

imo... of course.

Now, now....don't confuse the issue by stating the very premise of our justice system. :D

[ahlou3]

A lot of family members speak at funerals. Ten bucks says he speaks. :wink:
Double you and sending Mrs. Jackson an email now - she will make sure my twenty is safe:wink:

[TunaMelt]

That is sad. It sounds like he was kind of getting his life in order again. Or trying to.

Going backwards in time is rarely a good way to go into the future.

Times change, times change people, people are different, the dynamic is different.

It wouldn't have worked.

[VC2]

was the statement from Grace today posted? just mentioned on HLN, that she issued one shooting down a lot of the stuff in the sun.

[CinderL.]

Double you and sending Mrs. Jackson an email now - she will make sure my twenty is safe:wink:


Not fair. :cursing: :laugh:

[FallenAngel♥]

A shipment of concrete was just delivered to the Neverland Ranch.

http://www.tmz.com/

[VC2]

Why would I???????....I downloaded the actual transcripts...from a MJ Fan site:blushing: lol I had to pay for them and everything.

I was Linda5NJ back then...

here...I googled for ya

"Linda5NJ
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Sandy Fan
Posts: 4373
Transcripts are ready for downloading!

http://www.mjjforum.com/main/index....selectcat&cat=4

Enjoy, thanks to FF's at MJJForum!"


http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:TNrYJHDTEvQJ:community.mjeol.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D5040+Linda5NJ&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Don't remember me?

yes i do. i was marramambaqueen and opalfires

[Cardinal]

Going backwards in time is rarely a good way to go into the future.

Times change, times change people, people are different, the dynamic is different.

It wouldn't have worked.

I don't know if he could have pulled off those concerts or not. I honestly don't think he could've done 50 of them.

But I wish he'd had the chance to try.

[CinderL.]

Going backwards in time is rarely a good way to go into the future.

Times change, times change people, people are different, the dynamic is different.

It wouldn't have worked.

Probably not, but whoever was watching out for him the last few yrs. wasn't working either. Oh well.

[CinderL.]

was the statement from Grace today posted? just mentioned on HLN, that she issued one shooting down a lot of the stuff in the sun.

I haven't seen a statement from her today.

[GentleBreeze]

Umm, I realize he was not found innocent. What you and others fail to realize or acknowledge is that as a defendant he was cloaked in a presumption of innocence beginning the moment criminal charges were filed against him. That presumption of innocence is affirmed with a not guilty verdict.

imo... of course.

Actually, imo, in Michael Jackson's case if a man was ever presumed guilty before the evidence was even heard, it was Michael Jackson. He had no presumption afforded to him except presuming he was guilty. Fortunately his jurors who actually heard the so called evidence, did not agree.

imo

[CinderL.]

A shipment of concrete was just delivered to the Neverland Ranch.

http://www.tmz.com/

......:ohmy:

[TunaMelt]

JVM:

His memorial service "could be on the order of a state funeral.":scared:

OMG.

Egads, John F. Kennedy (he was the President of the United States who was assassinated in Dallas Texas in 1963, November FYI) was killed and buried in a few days.

What is wrong with the people in this country? in 2009?


:thumbdown:

[TunaMelt]

Michael Jackson Conspiracy

He was the pop icon the media loved to hate. Tremendously wealthy, inarguably eccentric, and one of the most famous people in the world, Michael Jackson was the unenviable target of constant public humiliation. The media poked fun at his skin, his features, his sexuality, and his lifestyle.Here, seasoned crime reporter Aphrodite Jones condemns the media for perpetuating hateful rumors and innuendoes, recounting just the sordid details, and reporting only the most despicable accusations and grisly charges made against Michael Jackson during his criminal trial. They had built a highly profitable industry around the superstar's "freaky life" and banked on his conviction. And, it turns out, they got it all wrong.In their efforts to make money and win ratings, the media missed the truth. It wasn't until after the "not guilty" verdict that Jones had the insight and courage to admit her own unintentional role in the frenzy surrounding the shocking testimony, high drama, and countless celebrities in Michael Jackson's high-profile criminal trial. Here, she makes amends with what is not only a truthful, well-documented chronicle of the entire trial but a powerful indictment against the media for conspiring to distort, dehumanize, and destroy Michael Jackson. Jones argues convincingly that the case against Jackson amounted to nothing more than a media-made, tax-paid scandal, and she makes an impassioned call to action for the public-at-large to think critically, question the integrity, and demand the truth in "the news".

http://www.amazon.com/Michael-Jackson-Conspiracy-Aphrodite-Jones/dp/0979549809

Well.
If Aphrodite Jones :w00t: says so, then it must BE so!:w00t:

[Cardinal]

Michael Jackson Conspiracy

He was the pop icon the media loved to hate. Tremendously wealthy, inarguably eccentric, and one of the most famous people in the world, Michael Jackson was the unenviable target of constant public humiliation. The media poked fun at his skin, his features, his sexuality, and his lifestyle.Here, seasoned crime reporter Aphrodite Jones condemns the media for perpetuating hateful rumors and innuendoes, recounting just the sordid details, and reporting only the most despicable accusations and grisly charges made against Michael Jackson during his criminal trial. They had built a highly profitable industry around the superstar's "freaky life" and banked on his conviction. And, it turns out, they got it all wrong.In their efforts to make money and win ratings, the media missed the truth. It wasn't until after the "not guilty" verdict that Jones had the insight and courage to admit her own unintentional role in the frenzy surrounding the shocking testimony, high drama, and countless celebrities in Michael Jackson's high-profile criminal trial. Here, she makes amends with what is not only a truthful, well-documented chronicle of the entire trial but a powerful indictment against the media for conspiring to distort, dehumanize, and destroy Michael Jackson. Jones argues convincingly that the case against Jackson amounted to nothing more than a media-made, tax-paid scandal, and she makes an impassioned call to action for the public-at-large to think critically, question the integrity, and demand the truth in "the news".

http://www.amazon.com/Michael-Jackson-Conspiracy-Aphrodite-Jones/dp/0979549809

Have you read that book, Athena?

[CinderL.]

JVM:

His memorial service "could be on the order of a state funeral.":scared:

OMG.

Egads, John F. Kennedy (he was the President of the United States who was assassinated in Dallas Texas in 1963, November FYI) was killed and buried in a few days.

What is wrong with the people in this country? in 2009?


:thumbdown:

It is crazy, isn't it.

[vonna]

JVM:

His memorial service "could be on the order of a state funeral.":scared:

OMG.

Egads, John F. Kennedy (he was the President of the United States who was assassinated in Dallas Texas in 1963, November FYI) was killed and buried in a few days.

What is wrong with the people in this country? in 2009?


:thumbdown:

What a sad commentary!

[TunaMelt]

.....:smile:.....








:biggrin: