6/28 to 6/29 -- #6

[legalmania]

I thought I'd read that Joe lives in Las Vegas and Katherine in California.

He's probably thinking about what jobs they would be good at.

[CinderL.]

I thought I'd read that Joe lives in Las Vegas and Katherine in California.

That would be good.

[aproudmom]

Sorry if been posted

Upcoming Documentary: The Untold Story of Neverland
http://www.topix.com/who/michael-jackson/2009/03/upcoming-documentary-the-untold-story-of-neverland

[MiamiNice1]

Someone is going to jail. He is crazy tonight. He is staying on it. He is going to find out what happened. :laugh:
He told Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth, the same exact thing. Suuuure, Geraldo.

[MiamiNice1]

I read today that Joe was already married when he met Katherine. I never knew that.
I didn't know that! I'm really disliking him more and more.

imo

[MiamiNice1]

He's probably thinking about what jobs they would be good at.
:laugh: - Good one!

[CinderL.]

Yes. He has an agenda, for sure. I just can't put my finger on it.

Well, he may be right that something bad went on....but when he is like he is tonight...I just can't take him seriously.

[aproudmom]

MJ's song, Gone too Soon, I thought was Caylee's song. I was stunned to read tonight that it was actually Michael Jackson's song...


moo

he wrote it for a boy in Indiana who passed away from AIDS he went to his funeral along with alot of other big names Elton John, Barbra Bush, and so on..was a wonderful tribute to Ryan who only wanted to go to school and be normal..it was horrible the way his family was treated.

[legalmania]

It's late people I gotta get up soon see ya one last song:

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/man_in_the_mirror)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[CinderL.]

I'm thinking if they want MJ buried at Neverland -- it's warm out now- maybe they'll clean it up a bit if they get access and do the entire service there. Just a thought.........

I think that would be very nice. Maybe that was what the brothers were doing there today.

[aproudmom]

YES -- FINALLY someone is showing the other side. Never had a doubt in my mind that this is what they were doing !!!!!!

THANK YOU proudmom. You need to stay around :laugh:

From your link:

"goes beyond the gates of Neverland and into the life of the accuser, GA, and his family...it is revealed that the downtrodden family has anything but a squeaky clean past, and that the decision to turn on Jackson could have been spurred on by ulterior motives to collect money"

you very welcome I love my google lol..he said it will be on next week..he was on Geraldo trying to get the time and channel so we wont forget and all put it on our calendars..lol. I think it is VH1

[tinkerbell]

It's late people I gotta get up soon see ya one last song:

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/man_in_the_mirror)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

That's my personal favorite of MJ's songs...

night legalmania....

[MiamiNice1]

It's late people I gotta get up soon see ya one last song:

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/man_in_the_mirror)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)
Thanks for all your tunes, legalmania. It's one of my MJ favorties. This is the one video that made me sad for our generation, remembering all the "peacemakers" from our past.

[aproudmom]

It's late people I gotta get up soon see ya one last song:

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/man_in_the_mirror)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

Thank you legal that is why I stalk you..lol..you always leave songs for the night on the threads..

[emdragon]

I just saw Donny on the insider talking about MJ..and you just back off Donny was mine always had a crush on him when I was younger..:biggrin: let me see I was born on 8/29/71 same day MJ was born just when did they become famous I only remember MJ music not the Jackson 5..

Must correct you Donny was MINE and since I'm older than you i win :)

Jackson 5 [Active from 1966 to 1990, the Jacksons played from a repertoire of R&B, soul, pop and later disco. During their six-year Motown tenure, The Jackson 5 were one of the biggest pop-music phenomena of the 1970s

The Osmonds the Osmonds started in 1958 (to raise money to buy hearing aides for Tommy and Viril) The were on the Andy Williams show from 1962-1969 And Donny achieved near-superstar status. He had a string of pop hits in the early 1970s, including "Go Away Little Girl" (Billboard #1), "Puppy Love" (#3), and "The Twelfth of Never" (#8). From 1971 to 1976, he had 12 top-40 hits, including 5 in the top 10.[8] The Osmonds brothers (minus Donny) still perform in Branson and Alan's sons perform as the "Osmond Brothers Second Generation.

(ok did I prove Donny was mine? lol)

Donny and Michael really did live parallel lives- almost the light and the dark of the industry (and I don't mean race)

[CinderL.]

Rub it in --- lost my job in Jan. Wish I had to get up :angry:

So sorry. Our business is really bad now too. But, at least I don't owe
$400.000.00 million dollars. wink.

[aproudmom]

Rub it in --- lost my job in Jan. Wish I had to get up :angry:

omg hate to hear that so sorry seems alot are in that shape here lately

[tinkerbell]

I participated in a poll today and voted for that one. LOVE it - but there are so many I like - but I picked the fav out of the list offered.

That's great Athena2, you voted for me too.

:-)

[aproudmom]

Must correct you Donny was MINE and since I'm older than you i win :)

Jackson 5 [

The Osmonds the Osmonds started in 1958 (to raise money to buy hearing aides for Tommy and Viril) The were on the Andy Williams show from 1962-1969 The Osmonds brothers (minus Donny) still perform in Branson and Alan's sons perform as the "Osmond Brothers Second Generation.

(ok did I prove Donny was mine? lol)

Donny and Michael really did live parallel lives- almost the light and the dark of the industry (and I don't mean race)

omg I see a battle I will fight for him.:tonguewag:.I remember loving him as a kid and then it was Bo on the Dukes of Hazard and I always played Farrah with my sisters we fought over who would be her..lol

[CinderL.]

You all have to watch this video. It is showing MJ at his happiest times. And I had no idea he sang this song. "Smile"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OgQxhAXu5g

[CinderL.]

Cnn has a good show on now. And, MJ didn't lose all of his hair in the Pepsi thing, because they were showing him a month later with his normal hair, except for shorter. :confused:

[aproudmom]

has anyone left a comment on his site..there is alot

265,146 memories from Michael Jackson fans worldwide
http://www.michaeljackson.com/

[CinderL.]

Cinder -- Guess you didn't see our post a little further back thanking you.

I dragged it over here after I saw it earlier. Loved it. Shows the inner-child in him and was absolutely beautiful :rose:

Oh....Blushing. No, I missed that. He was so sweet looking then. Why did he mess with perfection?

I think the Cnn show is a repeat.

[aproudmom]

You all have to watch this video. It is showing MJ at his happiest times. And I had no idea he sang this song. "Smile"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OgQxhAXu5g

omg that was a tissue video for sure..thanks for posting it I had never saw it..it was nice to see him smiling

[CinderL.]

omg that was a tissue video for sure..thanks for posting it I had never saw it..it was nice to see him smiling

I loved that, and the song. I didn't want you all to miss it. I posted it all over the place :blushing: That was the man behind Neverland I think.

[aproudmom]

Cnn has a good show on now. And, MJ didn't lose all of his hair in the Pepsi thing, because they were showing him a month later with his normal hair, except for shorter. :confused:

really can not remember who I was posting with the other night but we were shocked to read he was unable to grow his hair back and just how bad the scaring was..so maybe that is why it was short and then he went to wigs perhaps cause we had never heard that and I heard the money he got out of that from Pepsi he gave away to feed children IIRC

[CinderL.]

He went too far with plastic surgery but he does have vitiligo and did not have much choice and is why he had to stay out of the sun. I have a girlfriend with it:

Depigmentation—this treatment involves fading the rest of the skin on the body to match the areas that are already white. For people who have vitiligo on more than 50 percent of their bodies, depigmentation may be the best treatment option. Patients apply the drug monobenzylether of hydroquinone (monobenzone or Benoquin*) twice a day to pigmented areas until they match the already-depigmented areas. You must avoid direct skin-to-skin contact with other people for at least 2 hours after applying the drug, as transfer of the drug may cause depigmentation of the other person's skin. The major side effect of depigmentation therapy is inflammation (redness and swelling) of the skin. You may experience itching or dry skin. Depigmentation tends to be permanent and is not easily reversed. In addition, a person who undergoes depigmentation will always be unusually sensitive to sunlight.

http://www.medicinenet.com/vitiligo/page4.htm#tocl

Yes. My husbands family has quite a few people with it. My Brother and Sister in law have it. Sister-in-law has it really bad. I was so afraid my kids would get it. So far so good. It is horribly disfiguring.

[aproudmom]

I loved that, and the song. I didn't want you all to miss it. I posted it all over the place :blushing: That was the man behind Neverland I think.

oh thank you so much my 13yr old even sit and watched it as I was crying my eyes out..

[tinkerbell]

Good night, sleep well and count your blessings all...

[CinderL.]

really can not remember who I was posting with the other night but we were shocked to read he was unable to grow his hair back and just how bad the scaring was..so maybe that is why it was short and then he went to wigs perhaps cause we had never heard that and I heard the money he got out of that from Pepsi he gave away to feed children IIRC

I don't know, the time line they showed tonight, it looked normal to me after the fire. Somewhere (don't you lose track) today I read he was going bald and gray. Who knows....so many stories.

[CinderL.]

Good night, sleep well and count your blessings all... Night. :seeya:

[CinderL.]

I am now claiming that one as my favorite video. I just loved the fact that every scene showed his inner child and he looked sooo happy !!!

It was just so sweet, and fun. He did look so happy. He really was a kid at heart. I had mixed feelings about the trial. I was really on the fence. But, I really didn't know much or care much about MJ at the time. I liked his music growing up, but I wasn't really a fan of any kind. Now, I really think he thought of himself as one of the kids.

[CinderL.]

MJ is partial owner; he owes $24M to the people that have a lien against it. If the Jacksons can find a way to pay it - the lien is lifted.

Night Cinder, sleep well

Actually I'm outta here too - I had no idea it was this late. :ohmy:

Night. What time zone are you?

[aproudmom]

Yes. My husbands family has quite a few people with it. My Brother and Sister in law have it. Sister-in-law has it really bad. I was so afraid my kids would get it. So far so good. It is horribly disfiguring.

omg I bet it is scary..glad so far all is good..I did not know to much about it until recently but I have learned alot here lately

[aproudmom]

MJ is partial owner; he owes $24M to the people that have a lien against it. If the Jacksons can find a way to pay it - the lien is lifted.

Night Cinder, sleep well

Actually I'm outta here too - I had no idea it was this late. :ohmy:

I know it is late well early it is almost 3 here

[aproudmom]

It was just so sweet, and fun. He did look so happy. He really was a kid at heart. I had mixed feelings about the trial. I was really on the fence. But, I really didn't know much or care much about MJ at the time. I liked his music growing up, but I wasn't really a fan of any kind. Now, I really think he thought of himself as one of the kids.

I dont think he was allowed to be a child and to alot it was odd and like you I was always on the fence about the trial but he was found NG and he is no longer with us so why hate on someone I do not know..BUT it took alot of reading and posting for me to really read about MJ and his life..and I am happy I did..

[aproudmom]

I saw this on MJ website someone posted the link..he is no MJ but very sweet IMO

David Antunes - Tribute to Michael Jackson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7iChi7SSYU
Why did you die

[aproudmom]

SORRY BUT THIS IS AMAZING HAD TO POST IT best one I have heard out of all the tribute songs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt4Jzz7S6ag&NR=1
Here's a song i wrote for Michael Jackson a few years ago. He truly is my biggest music inspiration. I wrote this with Mike Clark. Mike produced the track and demoed it.

[annalyzer]

The 2009 BET Awards: A Tribute To MJ

Posted Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:02pm PDT by Wendy Geller in And The Winner Is...

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/awards/10603/the-2009-bet-awards-a-tribute-to-mj/

[aproudmom]

if this is true some doctors needs to fess up this is playing Russian roulette there are 4 pain medications 3 anti anxiety/depression medications I know for a fact most of these are controlled substances and you have got to see a doctor on a regular basis to even get them..I know for a fact you do not need 3 anxiety meds usually they will put you on Xanax for anxiety and Paxil or Zoloft for Depression there is absolutely no way any doctor or pharmacists should be writing or filling these medication to 1 person it is against the law I have watched the state police go into CVS and write down everyone who gets controlled substances they will bust the doctors and bust you if you try to get them from other pharmacy's but these days it is all in the computers they track it so maybe we need to start busting the ones filling them to because they have got to know and should be reporting it..:thumbdown: or whoever is getting them under their name should also be busted

The Sun newspaper in the UK claims Jackson was taking Xanax, Prilosec, Vicodin, Paxil, Demerol, Soma, Dilaudid and Zoloft.

Vicodin- combination of acetaminophen and hydrocodone. Hydrocodone is in a group of drugs called narcotic pain relievers

Demerol-Meperidine hydrochloride is a narcotic analgesic with multiple actions qualitatively similar to those of morphine; the most prominent of these involve the central nervous system

Dilaudid is in a group of drugs called narcotic pain relievers, also called opioids. It is similar to morphine.

Some-relieving the discomfort that is associated with painful musculoskeletal conditions

Paxil- used to treat depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, anxiety disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder, and premenstrual dysphoric disorder.

Zoloft-effective for the treatment of depression and certain anxiety conditions.

Xanax- a controlled substance that becomes very addictive and have to take more and more used for anxiety..

Prilosec- Prilosec decreases the amount of acid produced in the stomach

This breaks my heart because so many of these are so addictive and your body just needs more and more. I take Xanax and Effexor for Anxiety/Panic attacks and Effexor for Depression and I also have acid reflux and take Protonix I have never in 15yrs took more than prescribed to me actually I take less in fear of becoming addicted to them..I fought my doctors on Xanax for 2 years until my uncle died 2yrs ago I ended up in the ER 3 times with in 24 hours after his death I had so much anxiety I thought I was dying but I have to see a doctor every month to even get refills it is a controlled substance..if he was taking all of this it was bound to end in death..I am not saying I know he took all these but it just broke my heart to see what all he may have been taking and he did not need all of them drugs.

sorry not about me just knew what I take and was in shock to see this..

[aproudmom]

Hello from Indiana - no one over at the Casey string so I thought I'd check in here...and here you are! Did you see the crowd at his boyhood home in Gary? What part of IN are you from mom? I'm about 30 miles east of Indpls...always good to chat with another Hoosier...it is so hard to believe the news about MJ...reminds me of Diana in a way....

hello back from Indiana

[aproudmom]

Hello from Indiana - no one over at the Casey string so I thought I'd check in here...and here you are! Did you see the crowd at his boyhood home in Gary? What part of IN are you from mom? I'm about 30 miles east of Indpls...always good to chat with another Hoosier...it is so hard to believe the news about MJ...reminds me of Diana in a way....

I have not been to Gary seen they were leaving alot of stuff at his childhood home on TV..I am about a hour south of Indy but just moved here about a year ago but my home will always be my small town were Larry Bird grew up..it is pretty small but still love and miss it alot..

[aproudmom]

well time to get some sleepy..lol..bye to anyone who is still on...:seeya:

[aproudmom]

Jacko's funeral to be bigger than Elvis Presley's

Jackson's funeral is expected to take place on Wednesday or Thursday, believably, at the enormous Forest Lawn cemetery in Los Angeles. Following the funeral may be a public service, expected to claim a global audience as big as that of Princess Diana.

Hollywood legend Elizabeth Taylor, 77, who was one of Michael's closest friends, and Sir Paul McCartney, who sang with him but fell out when Jackson bought the back catalogue of Beatles' music from under his nose, are expected to be among mourners
http://entertainment.oneindia.in/music/international/2009/jackos-funeral-bigger-elvis-290609.html

[aproudmom]

omg I hope they do live stream it for all his fans that can not be there...

Michael Jackson’s funeral is sure to be a huge event, as the king of pop was loved around the world. It is expected that the funeral will be broadcast live for the world to see. We will be providing the live feed as well as live blogging the sad event. We will also post pictures along with video when they become available.


Michael Jackson’s funeral has yet to be planned, but is tentatively set for Tuesday. Before the funeral can be planned, the coroner has to release the pop star’s body. The funeral is expected to be the biggest funeral in entertainment history, and will draw thousands of mourners, with hundreds of millions expected to watch the funeral live on tv or via live feed.

We have already begun preparing for Michael Jackson’s funeral live feed, and will live blog as well, so please check back often for updates on the time, date, etc.
http://celebrity.rightpundits.com/?p=6198

[VC2]

Cnn has a good show on now. And, MJ didn't lose all of his hair in the Pepsi thing, because they were showing him a month later with his normal hair, except for shorter. :confused:

I believe that was a wig too, then later he went to the other sort, as the manager in the piece said "the dopey look with the part". hair can grow back but it grows back as stubbly or fuzzy rather than normal if at Jackson later underwent 80 minutes of laser surgery to repair his scalp. His surgeon Dr. Steven Hoefflin, famously known as “Doc Hollywood” who Jackson formed quite an attachment to over the years, said he was able to stitch the wound without having to implant or transplant hair from other parts of Jackson’s head.

According to Leonora Doclis, senior trichologist at the Belgravia Centre, while laser surgery can make the scar smaller, it won’t help in generating hair growth from the scar.

Donald Trump hides his bald spot with a comb over“Apparently the laser treatment reduced the scar to palm-size, but that is huge,” Leonora says. “If the follicles are damaged they will not produce hair. It is very unlikely that his hair grew back after this treatment.”all.
http://www.belgraviacentre.com/blog/michael-jackson%E2%80%99s-hair-loss-what-happened-to-his-bald-spot-084/

and as the original article that explained he wore wigs said, sometimes you could see they weren't on properly and get a glimpse of the scar/fuzz/stubble

imo

eta that article (belgravia) also says that an auto immune disorder would make it hopeless to do hair implantation or something like that. Double whammy for MJ

[VC2]

You still here aproudmom?? LOL I can't sleep grrr

Anyway how far is LA from Las Vegas. Those pictures of MJ in a wheelchair were taken in Las Vegas. Wouldn't that require a plane trip? Was he even there?

plane trip iirc. its close to cali but not LA i dont think.

I thought i read he also rehearsed the day before. I just dont think there is any doubt that he did dance/rehearse the hours before his death because the AEG people were there watching too! and as i said before with the number of ppl at a full runthrough including guys who handle the set, someone would have tipped of the news if it wasn't true.

IMO

eta..if pics are true, lots of reasons for a wheel chair. His back could have been sore from training the previous day, he could have twisted his ankle mildly. One thing for certain, MJ would not have taken a chance of walking if it was something that could have cleared up with 24 hours of rest.

[aproudmom]

On FOX AND FREINDS THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT WAS leaked ABOUT MJ body at autopsy's HOW IN THE He** is this being released???
Doctors lawyer getting ready to talk on Fox and Friends

Michael Jackson's death: The questions still to be answered
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196179/Michael-Jacksons-death-The-questions-answered.html
Last night in LA, Jackson's father Joe told reporters that he had 'a lot of concerns' about his son's final moments, adding: 'I can't get into that right now but I don't like what happened.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1195980/Second-post-mortem-begins-Michael-Jacksons-body-questions-asked-doctor.html
Thumbs up: Michael Jackson's father Joe, with Rev Jesse Jackson, left, waves to the media outside the family home in Los Angeles

[aproudmom]

Larry was the MAN - I was on Spring Break in Daytona beach when Bird and Magic met in the finals...Larry was always the Man - I htought it was funny that he didn't want to play for Bob Knight...great coach...too heavy handed to coach Bird, imo...

Where I grew up, the big tourist attraction is the "Hoosier Gym" - or, even more notoriety than to be the setting for the early playoff rounds for the movie "Hoosiers" with Gene Hackman, and Dennis Hopper...in the Old Knightstown Gym.

http://thehoosiergym.com/celebration/index.htm

Good talkin to you here...Imma go bed...thanks for talkin...ndy

sorry was looking and reading sorry..was not being rude

Bobby Knight yeah he was popular, Larry well I have not seen him for a few years my uncle used to help around his home and he knew my grandparents so I was never star struck but we had tons of people stopping and asking were his home was and school but I feel he kinda let his little town down but that is just MO..I went to school with 1 of his brothers and they all still live there and people are usually shocked he still lives in the same home he bought for his mother IIRC and it is not some huge mansion pretty normal other than the nice basketball court IIRC some of the movie was filmed in the valley..well sorry I missed ya..

wow fox is all over this doctors lawyer..yikes

[Meridian]

I heard his lawyer talking on television about how frail he was and that was all confirmed by the reporters covering the trial, so how did he manage to survive so long? (http://surftofind.com/reporter)


Any ideas, if the drugs killed him, it should have been a very long time ago.
I'm inquisitive about your remark that "it should have been a very long time ago". :huh:

[MoonFlwr]

You still here aproudmom?? LOL I can't sleep grrr

Anyway how far is LA from Las Vegas. Those pictures of MJ in a wheelchair were taken in Las Vegas. Wouldn't that require a plane trip? Was he even there?

The drive is only between 3 and 4 hours max. I do it once a year. It's no biggie.

[Cardinal]

Matt Lauer had an exclusive interview with the family attorney this morning. Maybe it'll be posted on the Today Show website.

The attorney is well-spoken.

[vonna]

On FOX AND FREINDS THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT WAS leaked ABOUT MJ body at autopsy's HOW IN THE He** is this being released???
Doctors lawyer getting ready to talk on Fox and Friends

Michael Jackson's death: The questions still to be answered
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196179/Michael-Jacksons-death-The-questions-answered.html
Last night in LA, Jackson's father Joe told reporters that he had 'a lot of concerns' about his son's final moments, adding: 'I can't get into that right now but I don't like what happened.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1195980/Second-post-mortem-begins-Michael-Jacksons-body-questions-asked-doctor.html
Thumbs up: Michael Jackson's father Joe, with Rev Jesse Jackson, left, waves to the media outside the family home in Los Angeles

Where there's a camera are Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton far behind?

[GentleBreeze]

I am still so upset this morning.

Where in the hell was everyone? Were they all blind? Could they not see that Michael was way too frail to do this tour? Even if he had locked himself in because he felt he had no way out in order to try to come out of debt, where were the logical and caring thinkers that knew this was killing MJ?

Joe makes sure its known to the world that he is in charge of Michael and the kids.:rolleyes: Ok. Then why didn't Joe, Katherine, Janet and the rest of his family go to a Judge and seek help for Michael? They had to see the weight he kept dropping. They had to know that even for him 112 pounds meant he wasn't eating.

Even the working out the night before and not even stopping to hydrate himself was extremely dangerous. Why wasn't there someone there to make sure he did that? It is like no one cared about Michael, the individual man, but cared more about the money it would bring in if the superstar did the tour.

Well imo, Michael died trying.:rose: Not for Joe, Katherine or the rest of his family but for the ones who had always meant everything to him........his fans.

imo

[RootBeer]

Next up is Deepok again to talk about MJ with Matt.

[cassidy]

I am still so upset this morning.

Where in the hell was everyone? Were they all blind? Could they not see that Michael was way too frail to do this tour? Even if he had locked himself in because he felt he had no way out in order to try to come out of debt, where were the logical and caring thinkers that knew this was killing MJ?

Joe makes sure its known to the world that he is in charge of Michael and the kids.:rolleyes: Ok. Then why didn't Joe, Katherine, Janet and the rest of his family go to a Judge and seek help for Michael? They had to see the weight he kept dropping. They had to know that even for him 112 pounds meant he wasn't eating.

Even the working out the night before and not even stopping to hydrate himself was extremely dangerous. Why wasn't there someone there to make sure he did that? It is like no one cared about Michael, the individual man, but cared more about the money it would bring in if the superstar did the tour.
Well imo, Michael died trying.:rose: Not for Joe, Katherine or the rest of his family but for the ones who had always meant everything to him........his fans.

imo

BINGO !! you win.

[Scampi]

I am still so upset this morning.

Where in the hell was everyone? Were they all blind? Could they not see that Michael was way too frail to do this tour? Even if he had locked himself in because he felt he had no way out in order to try to come out of debt, where were the logical and caring thinkers that knew this was killing MJ?

Joe makes sure its known to the world that he is in charge of Michael and the kids.:rolleyes: Ok. Then why didn't Joe, Katherine, Janet and the rest of his family go to a Judge and seek help for Michael? They had to see the weight he kept dropping. They had to know that even for him 112 pounds meant he wasn't eating.

Even the working out the night before and not even stopping to hydrate himself was extremely dangerous. Why wasn't there someone there to make sure he did that? It is like no one cared about Michael, the individual man, but cared more about the money it would bring in if the superstar did the tour.

Well imo, Michael died trying.:rose: Not for Joe, Katherine or the rest of his family but for the ones who had always meant everything to him........his fans.

imo

Just as in the case of Howard Hughes, I don't think anyone could tell Michael Jackson anything. Another case of too much money and no one to regulate.

I think many of us have had experiences with relatives who we see doing things that impact them medically, but if they do not take advice what can you do? I did read that Katherine and Janet attempted an intervention at one point.

It was interesting to learn this morning, thru Matt Lauer that Dr. Murray was not board certified in internal medicine or cardiology.

[GentleBreeze]

Just as in the case of Howard Hughes, I don't think anyone could tell Michael Jackson anything. Another case of too much money and no one to regulate.

I think many of us have had experiences with relatives who we see doing things that impact them medically, but if they do not take advice what can you do? I did read that Katherine and Janet attempted an intervention at one point.

It was interesting to learn this morning, thru Matt Lauer that Dr. Murray was not board certified in internal medicine or cardiology.

Morning,

It is no longer like that. Now there are legal ways to stop someone who is harming themselves by going through the Court system. MJ would not be above that and the Jacksons also have clout in California.

If I was a part of his family who was watching him slip away I would have done everything humanly possible and yes, even going to the court to intervene, to try and save him. Even if it did not work, and I do believe it would in this case, since I believe MJ really should have been hospitalized, I would at least know I tried to save them rather than standing by watching them slipping away in front of my eyes and me doing absolutely nothing.

The doctor is licensed in three different states. I really don't have a problem with the doctor.

imo

[Scampi]

Morning,

It is no longer like that. Now there are legal ways to stop someone who is harming themselves by going through the Court system. MJ would not be above that and the Jacksons also have clout in California.

If I was a part of his family who was watching him slip away I would have done everything humanly possible and yes, even going to the court to intervene, to try and save him. Even if it did not work, and I do believe it would in this case, since I believe MJ really should have been hospitalized, I would at least know I tried to save them rather than standing by watching them slipping away in front of my eyes and me doing absolutely nothing.

The doctor is licensed in three different states. I really don't have a problem with the doctor.

imo

Exactly what court action could any family member have done in regards to an adult Michael Jackson?

Dr. Nancy Snyderman was on with Meredith Viera this morning and from the information we know so far, stated there are "red flags" surrounding the actions of Dr. Murray. I think she's right.

[Scampi]

Dr. Snyderman specifically mentioned the claim of doing CPR in the bed. Sometimes The Today Show has links to interviews, I am going to see if I can find this one and I'll post it if I do. In the meantime, MSNBC is showing this interview also thru out the day.

Nancy Snyderman is starting a new show on MSNBC, at the noon hour, starting today. She will more then likely cover this topic.

[My Gal Sal]

http://celebrity.rightpundits.com/?p=3933

http://celebrity.rightpundits.com/?pp_album=main&pp_cat=&pp_image=Michael_Jackson_1.JPG

:crying:is this really him if so how in the heck did he dance the night before his death:confused:

HI, Before everyone gets all upset. Notice that the date on the wheelchair picture is July 2008.

[Scampi]

Scampi -- Read the posts from the Geraldo show last night -- there's some strange goings on. :ohmy:

Uh, oh......I will, thanks Athena. I do not like that this doctor was not board certified, or that according to reports had financial problems for years.

[GentleBreeze]

Exactly what court action could any family member have done in regards to an adult Michael Jackson?

Dr. Nancy Snyderman was on with Meredith Viera this morning and from the information we know so far, stated there are "red flags" surrounding the actions of Dr. Murray. I think she's right.

The same court action that was taken when my father had become a danger to himself and was not taking care of himself. The same court action that many people all over this country do when their adult loved one is endangering themselves.

I think Dr. Murray did the best he could under the most stressful of circumstances imaginable. He had only resided with MJ in his home 11 days. I am not even sure he was there in a cardiologist capacity but possibly as an overall general practitioner.

imo

[Scampi]

The same court action that was taken when my father had become a danger to himself and was not taking care of himself. The same court action that many people all over this country do when their adult loved one is endangering themselves.

I think Dr. Murray did the best he could under the most stressful of circumstances imaginable. He had only resided with MJ in his home 11 days. I am not even sure he was there in a cardiologist capacity but possibly as an overall general practitioner.

imo

But what court action was that? A commitment for your father? Did you have your father's doctor sign papers? None of that was even remotely possible for Michael's family, imo. Apparently they could not even reach him by telephone. What exactly would you have had them do considering that fact?

[GentleBreeze]

Good morning GB -- I don't know if the family could have done anything. When my brother was hooked on drugs and alcohol my mom and I managed to get the children taken away from him and his wife but we could not do anything to get him into a rehab center through the court and I assure you we tried. We were told over and over again he would have to self-admit. Eventually he did but it wasn't because we had anything to do with it. :(

I think MJ was exploited and betrayed by everyone he trusted and it continues after his death !!!!

BTW - Did you see Geraldo last night ??? Some really strange but possible scenarios came up and some of it actually made sense to me. Ramone Bain was on and said basically the people that surrounded them were the ones that fired her and Grace Rwarmba not MJ and that was in the latter part of last year. From December - June his family was kept away from him - even telephone calls. Something is not right.

Maybe it depends on the state or even maybe the county within the state but here the court will do an intervention most of the time if the family request one if the court finds it warranted. I know a lady where her daughter was on drugs and she was not taking care of herself or her three children. The courts did intervene and not only was she placed in rehab for 18 months but her mother got custody of her kids.

Yes, that is very strange. WHO were these people. Were they forcing MJ to do this tour? Did they know he was in danger of dying? Lots of questions. It is like they shut him away from everyone close to him. Was he in that home with total strangers other than his children?

imo

[My Gal Sal]

Appears Grace Rwarmba was exploited and that Times article by that Daphne person wrote was full of lies and every major media newspaper is quoting it as well as People Magazine. When does it stop? :(

This article is written by Dr. Chapro's daughter:

<snipped>

http://www.intent.com/mallikachopra/blog/bloodsuckers-and-world-michael-jackson

http://floacist.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/re-the-nanny-tells-all-grace-rwaramba-interview/



Thank You Athena2, That sleazy reporter!... You are helping tremendously by keeping me on track and not just following every word as the gospel. :thumbsup:

[flipflop]

Michael Jackson's body was in terrible shape and he had only pills in his stomach when he died, according to a report out of London.

Jackson's hips, thighs and shoulders were riddled with needle wounds, The Sun is reporting. The paper -- which claims to have details of the autopsy -- is saying Jackson was bald at the time of his death and suffered several broken ribs, probably from the failed attempts to revive him.


http://www.tmz.com/

How terribly sad.

[who_is_it]

Wow he's saying that MJ was infuriated because he thought he signed a contract for 10 concerts not 50; that the promoters, agents and other people around him knew this and MJ did not feel he was up to speed .... did they think MJ might not fulfill the contract? Almost like they are implying a possible homicide and they will all be investigated. If it was just an accident then they would get the insurance if not it could wipe out their company out and that is what the promoters are concerned and they would be the ones to reap the rewards.

To be honest that came to my mind, too. My "conspiracy thoughts" were: There maybe was an argument about the number of concerts.* -- The concerts are insuranced if he passes away.

I've changed my mind for several reasons:

1. The doctor wasn't the choice of AEG but Michael's.
2. He rehearsed; he was already able to do a full run-through. It's not possible that it's untrue. Too many people spoke out (Ehrlich, Ortega etc.)
3. I have a good impression about Frank Dileo.

I believe there couldn't have been any foul play by the "Nation of Islam", either, because they were probably interested in his performances. (I leave out the conclusion why...)

* P.S.: I thought that BEFORE his death. When I've read he only wanted to do 10 shows I thought: "The promoters must be angry to read this in the press."

[GentleBreeze]

But what court action was that? A commitment for your father? Did you have your father's doctor sign papers? None of that was even remotely possible for Michael's family, imo. Apparently they could not even reach him by telephone. What exactly would you have had them do considering that fact?

That came after I had filed a petition to be heard on the matter. The Judge did do an emergency injunction to have him removed from his home because he agreed that he thought he was a danger to himself. He asked the family to assist in that and we did, he was brought to our home where he would get proper care.

No direct contact has to be made by family members directly with the one who is jeopardizing their life when filing with the court. The court assigns the physicians and psychiatrists. The court is the one who determines if they believe the person is a danger to themselves.

I think anyone with a gnat's brain would realize that MJ was slowly killing himself and certainly did not know how to care for himself.

I don't think Joe Jackson cared about Michael's best welfare. I think he was too busy suing his son because of him doing the tour rather than doing the show with the original Jackson 5. I don't see the Jackson family hanging out at MJs anyway. Those that sue someone usually aren't close buddies. They were just busy thinking of ways that MJ could make them some more money by riding his coattails which they have always depended on.

They could have tried. They didn't.



imo

[who_is_it]

Coming on fox news in a few minutes re: Leaked autopsy report

<snipped>

Suicide was brought up on Geraldo but Romaine Bain said absolutely NO way - very adamant -- MJ would never have killed himself because of his love for his children

Thought the same. His children meant everything to him.

[GentleBreeze]

Yes...I heard Murray's attny this morning say because Michael was so frail and emaciated, the Dr. Used this techniqe for compressions...He must have been so tiny,...!!

As a medical professional, who has been in attendance of hundreds and hundreds of resusitation attempts..I have only seen one handed compressions done by laypeople..or by professionals on toddlers..and babies you use fingers on chest ( breast bone) to compress with baby on flat firm surface...Never ever heard of sandwiching an adult to compress ones chest to circulate blood???Yikes!!

LMS:ohmy:

Didn't MJ suffer broken ribs because of the chest compressions?

imo

[Topaz]

Where there are downers (narcotics and benzos), there are often UPPERS, like amphetamines.

Keeping that emaciated look, may have had help. And maybe the tox screen will show that too.

Excess use of uppers can cause cardiac arrest.
And Uppers would give temporary energy for the rehearsals, etc.

Elvis mixed them, for example.

[GentleBreeze]

Reports are coming out that he was a skeleton - 5'10" 112 lbs.

Nothing in his stomach but two half dissolved pills.:crying:

[GentleBreeze]

Most likely, he did..especially if those compressions were not done correctly..Compressions are suppose to be on the breast bone..( sternum) large flat bone center of chest...fractures of ribs occur when compressions slip too low or to the side of that bone...Not uncommon when done by laypeople...Humming..maybe this Dr. didn't know the proper technique...I am starting to wonder really???

LMS:sad:

He may have thought he was so fragile that he was afraid to do it the customary way.

I bet due to being so malnourished his bones were so brittle.

It is all so heartbreaking.

Didn't they all know that MJ had to eat to stay alive?

imo

[Scampi]

Keep us posted, please. Thanks.


Dr. Snyderman just did another interview and said that today on her show, among other topics, she will have a roundtable on the death of MJ and said again, Dr. Murray's not being certified in internal medicine and cardiology raises flags, along with the CPR.

Show is on msnbc at noon.

[who_is_it]

I've always wondered why Michael's name wasn't told but then thought they want to avoid a media circus and therefore didn't tell.

Nevertheless a question:

"Ok sir, what's your address?

Los Angeles California, 90077

Carolwood?

Carolwood Drive, yes,"

I conclude they knew by the zip code that it's Carolwood. But how could they know which house it is? If "Carolwood drive" is a big street how could they know about the house?

No conspiracy theory..., I'm just interested how emergency calls work.

[GentleBreeze]

Who is leaking this info if it is in fact true? Kinda hard to believe they would leak to a different country's paper, especially the Sun. During the Madeleine McCann case, I never trusted what they reported. A poster on that board from UK said the Sun and NOTW were ragmags.

Oh I do think there are people who are sleazy in ME offices or LE that will sell this information to the highest bidder. May be better to sell it to a ragmag overseas.

The main news sites seem to be picking it up now. I hate it. I really do but they have sliced and diced MJ up for years. They sure aren't going to miss putting this heartrending information out either.

imo

[RayStar]

Exactly what court action could any family member have done in regards to an adult Michael Jackson?

Dr. Nancy Snyderman was on with Meredith Viera this morning and from the information we know so far, stated there are "red flags" surrounding the actions of Dr. Murray. I think she's right.I stopped reading at your post and I agree with your question. With the laws of protecting one's civil rights, its basically pretty tough to get some legal action done to a person without providing physical proof.

I know that is extremely difficult to watch a person destroy themselves and there is nothing legally you can do to protect them from themselves.
Now Jesse Jackson should go away. I think Sharpton will do ok. I know both are camera hungry.

[GentleBreeze]

Yep, they knew it, also no doubt KNEW he couldn't do 50 shows. He was gonna be their cash cow to make them rich, they could care less about his health.That contract needs to be investigated and exactly what he thought he was signing. I believe he knew he couldn't do 50 shows, so why would he sign that contract? JMO

Right, did they have him cutoff from those he knew? Those that would try to protect MJ knowing that he needed protection.

Was he tricked or forced into signing this document? Did they just tell him to sign and they would fill in all the other stuff later?

Grace knows him the best and she said MJ thought he was signing for 10 shows, iirc, which sounds about right. How did it become 50?

imo

[who_is_it]

MO - they probably bleeped out the street number.

Yes, you're right.

[GentleBreeze]

I've always wondered why Michael's name wasn't told but then thought they want to avoid a media circus and therefore didn't tell.

Nevertheless a question:

"Ok sir, what's your address?

Los Angeles California, 90077

Carolwood?

Carolwood Drive, yes,"

I conclude they knew by the zip code that it's Carolwood. But how could they know which house it is? If "Carolwood drive" is a big street how could they know about the house?

No conspiracy theory..., I'm just interested how emergency calls work.

Hmm for some reason I thought he said 200 Carolwood but I may be wrong.

[who_is_it]

Yep, they knew it, also no doubt KNEW he couldn't do 50 shows. He was gonna be their cash cow to make them rich, they could care less about his health.That contract needs to be investigated and exactly what he thought he was signing. I believe he knew he couldn't do 50 shows, so why would he sign that contract? JMO

You're right by that. They must have known that he couldn't do 50 shows.

I believe Grace that he never knew what he was signing. He signed the 50 shows for his own tour and signed the contract for the Jackson 5 tour.

[GentleBreeze]

That's what one report said, but how do we know the broken ribs were from chest compressions????????

I guess the ME knows if it is a fresh break and where the breaks are aobtd but I wouldn't be surprised at all if during all of this stressful rehearsing that MJ may have fallen at times and hurt himself. I dont think he knew one day without pain.

imo

[RayStar]

Good morning GB -- I don't know if the family could have done anything. When my brother was hooked on drugs and alcohol my mom and I managed to get the children taken away from him and his wife but we could not do anything to get him into a rehab center through the court and I assure you we tried. We were told over and over again he would have to self-admit. Eventually he did but it wasn't because we had anything to do with it. :(

I think MJ was exploited and betrayed by everyone he trusted and it continues after his death !!!!

BTW - Did you see Geraldo last night ??? Some really strange but possible scenarios came up and some of it actually made sense to me. Ramone Bain was on and said basically the people that surrounded them were the ones that fired her and Grace Rwarmba not MJ and that was in the latter part of last year. From December - June his family was kept away from him - even telephone calls. Something is not right.I wish the court would listen more intently to family members seeking assistance for their loved ones. MJ should have had an intervention at least a decade ago.IMO

Good post Athena2 thanks.

[who_is_it]

Something more against these conspiracy theories:

"But, according to reports, AEG Live, the promoter of the "This Is It" 50-date residency, recorded enough of Jackson's rehearsal material to release at least one live CD/DVD."

"Entertainment industry Web site The Wrap reports that Jackson's final rehearsal at the Staples Center on Wednesday was recorded in multi-camera, high-definition video and multi-track audio."

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1614882/20090629/jackson_michael.jhtml

If he had been so frail and weak they wouldn't have recorded the show and wouldn't plan to release it!!!

A bit strange, though, that the final rehearsal was recorded in extraordinary quality... (Not knowing he would die) this wasn't the final rehearsal in LA. There were more rehearsals scheduled.

[who_is_it]

Hmm for some reason I thought he said 200 Carolwood but I may be wrong.

What the other poster said makes sense. They probably beeped it / cut it out not to make myriads of fans show up at the house.

[who_is_it]

more details of the rehearsals:
Michael Jackson's Last Tour Rehearsals Filmed For Possible Release
Show included floating orbs, aerial dancers.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1614882/20090629/jackson_michael.jhtml

Also in this article too many people say it was almost completed. At this stage it's unlikely that they would have killed him to get money from the insurance imo.

[ALL RISE]

Coming on fox news in a few minutes re: Leaked autopsy report

Just speculation on my part -- appears to me that MJ was possibly killed and made to look like an accident because I believe they all realized there was no way he could do 50 concerts - tickets were already sold out - and they stood to lose a lot of money. If it were made to look like too many pills -- it would be classified as accidental overdose and insurance would be collected to cover expenses :(

Suicide was brought up on Geraldo but Romaine Bain said absolutely NO way - very adamant -- MJ would never have killed himself because of his love for his children

..seriously...so it would be another one more debt...would have made more sense to make 'another' public service announcement on television/all the air waves that he had to go into rehab; drs orders; he's done that b/4; maybe he didn't want to go into rehab?!

[Topaz]

Another factor is this:

When you starve, like MJ appears to have done, your body starts consuming its muscles for protein.
It will consume the heart muscle as well. Eventually the heart fails.
This could be a very serious contributing factor and will show up in the slides they took.

Karen Carpenter, of the musical duo the Carpenters, died from this cardiac failure. She was anoretic.

If MJ was not getting enough potassium and magnesium from his diet, and the heart was weakening, it would be unable to sustain contractions properly with low electrolytes added to the muscle loss (which is called sarcopenia). The media claims he was only eating 1 meal a day now.
Unless he was getting mega supplements, he might not have been getting the 4.5 grams of potassium we all need daily to stay alive.

[GentleBreeze]

Something more against these conspiracy theories:

"But, according to reports, AEG Live, the promoter of the "This Is It" 50-date residency, recorded enough of Jackson's rehearsal material to release at least one live CD/DVD."

"Entertainment industry Web site The Wrap reports that Jackson's final rehearsal at the Staples Center on Wednesday was recorded in multi-camera, high-definition video and multi-track audio."

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1614882/20090629/jackson_michael.jhtml

If he had been so frail and weak they wouldn't have recorded the show and wouldn't plan to release it!!!

A bit strange, though, that the final rehearsal was recorded in extraordinary quality... (Not knowing he would die) this wasn't the final rehearsal in LA. There were more rehearsals scheduled.

I think they knew if it was MJ even the rehearsals were gold mines.

I know this, all of these conflicting stories are driving me batty.

We have heard that he was physically fit by those who were at the actual rehearsal with him. We heard he did a grueling 12 song/dance rehearsal the night before without even stopping to drink water.

We also heard a few days ago that the police or MEs office was surprised to see that he appeared in good physical shape.

I do know that MJ has always been extremely lean. I would say he has never weighed more than 140 or 145 pounds even in his prime where he was extremely healthy.

So can someone be this small but yet still be agile too if they have remained small for a number of years?:confused:

[Topaz]

It can be amazing what UPPERS can do when you need alot of energy.
Only problem is the "crash" that follows later.

I think the tox screen will come back positive for some form of stimulant.
JMO

[flipflop]

Jackson Doctor's CPR Technique Explained

Posted Jun 29th 2009 9:53AM by TMZ Staff

Now we know why Dr. Conrad Murray administered CPR on Michael Jackson's bed, even though it's routinely performed on a hard surface -- it was a "firm bed."

http://www.tmz.com/

[mrsmcgoo]

Found this interesting link..describing "Addictive Personalty"..and scanning threw it..humming

http://www.drugrehabtreatment.com/addictive-personality.html

snippet~~~
In addition, abuse or trauma in childhood, profound inconsistencies in parenting, or deprivation or overindulgence early in life may be indicators of addiction. People who are receiving treatment for other mental health conditions, such as depression, attention deficit disorder, and post-traumatic stress disorder, may be at a greater risk for problems with addiction.

If I recall correctly, didnt MJ even attend a "Rehab Centre" at one time?

LMS


I may have my details scrambled, but I believe that Elizabeth Taylor was able to get MJ to go to rehab. I am not sure of the year, but something makes me think MJ was in England?

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Jackson Doctor's CPR Technique Explained

Posted Jun 29th 2009 9:53AM by TMZ Staff

Now we know why Dr. Conrad Murray administered CPR on Michael Jackson's bed, even though it's routinely performed on a hard surface -- it was a "firm bed."

http://www.tmz.com/

Ah, I suspected as much. That makes perfect sense since MJ was plagued with back problems for years. No telling how much that bed and mattress cost.

imo

[who_is_it]

I think they knew if it was MJ even the rehearsals were gold mines.

I know this, all of these conflicting stories are driving me batty.

We have heard that he was physically fit by those who were at the actual rehearsal with him. We heard he did a grueling 12 song/dance rehearsal the night before without even stopping to drink water.

We also heard a few days ago that the police or MEs office was surprised to see that he appeared in good physical shape.

I do know that MJ has always been extremely lean. I would say he has never weighed more than 140 or 145 pounds even in his prime where he was extremely healthy.

So can someone be this small but yet still be agile too if they have remained small for a number of years?:confused:

- Dorian Holley (vocal trainer?)
- Kenny Ortega (choreographer)
- Randy Phillips, AEG (promoter)
- Ed Alonzo (magician)
- Ken Ehrlich (Grammy producer, invited to watch)
- Frank Dileo (manager)

all said how great the performance was and that Mike was looking forward to doing the shows. Some said he danced like in music videos!

I don't get the impression that they were worried he didn't make it.

You're right, Michael always was lean. Remember the last days of the trial!

[who_is_it]

The doctor's life is probably ruined.

He was in debt. Now he has to hire an expensive lawyer to defend against the allegations.

He gets death threats by crazy fans.

Another tragedy.

[GentleBreeze]

- Dorian Holley (vocal trainer?)
- Kenny Ortega (choreographer)
- Randy Phillips, AEG (promoter)
- Ed Alonzo (magician)
- Ken Ehrlich (Grammy producer, invited to watch)
- Frank Dileo (manager)

all said how great the performance was and that Mike was looking forward to doing the shows. Some said he danced like in music videos!

I don't get the impression that they were worried he didn't make it.

You're right, Michael always was lean. Remember the last days of the trial!

Thank you.

Yes the tragedy of it all is it looks like Michael was indeed going to make it and wow thousands of his fans.

He was on his way,..........it was going to happen and now the curtain has been called before he had a chance to step up on that stage to fill the love and to prove he still was the most dynamic entertainer in the world.:sad:

[Cynthia]

I was listening to an old interview with Michael this weekend and he said he has never been a big fan of food. He went on to say that he was healthy and ate regular meals but didn't over do it. Michael referenced that Liz Taylor had been known to hand feed him to make sure he had enough.

[who_is_it]

"In preparing for previous tours, Holley said auditions for backup singers and other performing roles would usually be held via videotape, and it wouldn't be all that uncommon for the two to speak directly only two or three times over the span of a year. But for "This Is It," the London concerts scheduled to begin in July, Jackson was much more present and available, attending auditions and eagerly talking with everyone in the crew about the larger mission behind the tour."

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1614882/20090629/jackson_michael.jhtml

[mrsmcgoo]

Please excuse if this link has been posted...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1195999/24hr-sober-coach-hired-Michael-Jackson-desperate-family-brought-controversial-Doc-Hollywood-save-star.html

Article stating an attempt to get MJ to enter rehab. Also, that he was to start this past weekend attempting to cut back under supervision.

[who_is_it]

Thank you.

Yes the tragedy of it all is it looks like Michael was indeed going to make it and wow thousands of his fans.

He was on his way,..........it was going to happen and now the curtain has been called before he had a chance to step up on that stage to fill the love and to prove he still was the most dynamic entertainer in the world.:sad:

"Jackson had been [B]preparing to take the world back, Holley says, and during the singer's final night, he finally knew he was ready."

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

It sooooo tragic. I feel so sad that he couldn't experience it, I find no words for it.

[bkwits]

Does any of this describe anyone we know?..Sure sounds familiar to me anyway...

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Emotionally-Addictive-Personality&id=585474

Addictive personalities can manifest themselves in a variety of ways that may not, at first glance, be recognized as such. Whether this addiction is an insatiable need instant gratification, attention, reassurances of love or simply always being placed at the top of the household's priority list, the damage can be as emotionally devastating as any drug or alcohol problem.

In cases of the emotionally addictive personality, those living with this individual may find that they are unendingly challenged to "prove" their love, concern or appreciation for the addicted individual

Thus would follow, that they would surround themselves with enablers..who would not say NO ,,and we all know that those that tried to intervene, or say no were excised from that "Inner Circle"...I would also maybe suggest, the decisions to pick those enablers dont always come from well thoughtout places....Mistakenly, the trust given these people are based soley on "Getting" what they want..not on what is "Best" for them ( business-wise or health-wise)


LMS

Certainly seems to fit with the stories we've heard of MJ. Grace states that she was fired many times, for challenging Michael or not caring enough for him. IMO, Michael, like so many celebreties, self-destructed.

Above, IMO.

[who_is_it]

"We would just sit there with our jaws open — it was awesome," Holley says. "He could still do everything ... The only difference now was that he would sometimes talk about how it made him sore."

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

Imo the death was an accident. He showed a lot of power the night before, didn't drink enough, had pain, took pain killers, didn't eat, maybe slept too little. It was a sudden heart attack the doctor couldn't do anything about.

It's more than tragic that he died before he could realise his vision. Don't get me wrong but if he "had to die" (now) I would have wished him he could have died on stage, loved and applauded.

The only comforting is that he wasn't in fear and self confident:

"You would think that, on the one hand, the world has kind of beaten him up, and you could forgive him for having some trepidation and fear. But he didn't have any of that," says Holley."

[who_is_it]

Certainly seems to fit with the stories we've heard of MJ. Grace states that she was fired many times, for challenging Michael or not caring enough for him. IMO, Michael, like so many celebreties, self-destructed.

Above, IMO.

He wasn't self destructed during his last time. All people working together with him said he was totally positive and convinced of his vision he could take with his show the world back.

[who_is_it]

--------------------
but maybe it wasnt the real MJ that was rehearsing.. i dont see how he could have rehearsed in the condition he was in. I still say the guy who made the comeback announcement was not MJ......but a look-alike. he looked too darn good in that video on utube. jmo

Read this. I already posted many quotes.

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

[who_is_it]

BREAKING NEWS


Reported Jackson Autopsy -- A Fake

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/jackson-autopsy-report-a-fake/

[4Life]

BREAKING NEWS


Reported Jackson Autopsy -- A Fake

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/jackson-autopsy-report-a-fake/

I told you when that was posted last night, it was a fake

[4Life]

--------------------
but maybe it wasnt the real MJ that was rehearsing.. i dont see how he could have rehearsed in the condition he was in. I still say the guy who made the comeback announcement was not MJ......but a look-alike. he looked too darn good in that video on utube. jmo

That video was over 3 months old. Some of us here told you we saw the whole press conference live and it was MJ

[who_is_it]

--------------
---------------------

we'll see.

You should just read what I posted in reply to your assumptions.

I don't think high reputed professionals like Kenny Ortega, Holley and Ehrlich would lie and make a fool out of themselves.

[4Life]

BREAKING NEWS


Reported Jackson Autopsy -- A Fake

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/jackson-autopsy-report-a-fake/

The source of that Fake Autopsy was a London Paper,The Sun, This is the same paper that reported sightings of Elvis and said the Princess Diana was pregnant when she died

[flipflop]

BREAKING NEWS


Reported Jackson Autopsy -- A Fake

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/jackson-autopsy-report-a-fake/\

Glad to hear that

[4Life]

Read this. I already posted many quotes.

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

Thanks for the info

You know people are going to say MJ is alive and in hiding just like they did with Elvis

[who_is_it]

The source of that Fake Autopsy was a London Paper,The Sun, This is the same paper that reported sightings of Elvis and said the Princess Diana was pregnant when she died

As far as I know NOTW (which broke the Chandler story yesterday), "The Mirror" (which broke the Terry George story yesterday) and "The Sun" all belong to Rupert Murdoch -- belong to the same media mogul.

[who_is_it]

With all due respect, I have a tendency to view such glowing reports by the Michael Jackson Promotion team with some skeptisicm..Dont think I ever recall any promotional statement claiming their star is weak, ill, addicted, frail or unwell..If they did??? Not good for business is it?

Since there are so many conflicting statements out there..I think I will just sit back and wait for the proof of what is being spinned out there.

LMS

The quoted people don't build a promotion team. There were independent people at the rehearsal, too. For example Ehrlich was just invited to watch.

[CinderL.]

SORRY BUT THIS IS AMAZING HAD TO POST IT best one I have heard out of all the tribute songs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt4Jzz7S6ag&NR=1
Here's a song i wrote for Michael Jackson a few years ago. He truly is my biggest music inspiration. I wrote this with Mike Clark. Mike produced the track and demoed it.\

Very nice. Thanks

[VC2]

As it stands now, Jackson has left a signed will with former attorney and partner John Branca. Branca was the lawyer who helped Jackson buy ATV Music Publishing in the 1980s, then merge with Sony Music Publishing in the early 90s. The result was like giving Jackson a billion-dollar bank account, which he leveraged over and over to accomodate his huge financial needs.
=================================
The fact is, the Jackson family, according to my sources, hasn’t even contacted anyone from Michael’s legal team. And Joseph Jackson—who is said to have instigated a lawsuit against Michael by All Good Productions over the promise of a family concert in New Jersey—can’t be too happy that he’s not the executor of his son’s estate.

http://www.showbiz411.com/jackson-family-where-theres-a-will-theres-a-way

Best news i heard all day! yesterday they were saying no will could be found, imo bc they just didn't want one and they asked his latest attorney or something like that.

Joe in charge would mean mj never rested peacefully

[Scampi]

Jackson Doctor's CPR Technique Explained

Posted Jun 29th 2009 9:53AM by TMZ Staff

Now we know why Dr. Conrad Murray administered CPR on Michael Jackson's bed, even though it's routinely performed on a hard surface -- it was a "firm bed."

http://www.tmz.com/


This explanation by Murray's defense attorneys is not good enough for me. I still have many questions. For example, Murray is claiming that Michael had a weak pulse, but wasn't breathing when he found him. I want to know how soon he told someone to call 911 after he found him in that condition.

It's going to be very interesting to see if the other people at that home corroborate Murray's claims.

[CinderL.]

I believe that was a wig too, then later he went to the other sort, as the manager in the piece said "the dopey look with the part". hair can grow back but it grows back as stubbly or fuzzy rather than normal if at all.
http://www.belgraviacentre.com/blog/michael-jackson%E2%80%99s-hair-loss-what-happened-to-his-bald-spot-084/

and as the original article that explained he wore wigs said, sometimes you could see they weren't on properly and get a glimpse of the scar/fuzz/stubble

imo

eta that article (belgravia) also says that an auto immune disorder would make it hopeless to do hair implantation or something like that. Double whammy for MJ

Thanks. He should have stuck to wigs that looked like his real hair. Some of them did look goofy.

[who_is_it]

Best news i heard all day! yesterday they were saying no will could be found, imo bc they just didn't want one and they asked his latest attorney or something like that.

Joe in charge would mean mj never rested peacefully

Dileo already said right after Michael's death: There IS a will.

[CinderL.]

The drive is only between 3 and 4 hours max. I do it once a year. It's no biggie.

You are speeding if you make it in 3. :biggrin:

[who_is_it]

I do believe that most people at that rehersal either worked for the filming co. or for the Show promoters..or Michael Jackson himself...I heard the opposite from some of those who supposedly attended as well.so once again, I take all comments from where they come..and dont necessarily swallow what is being reported...News Media, Promotors, lawyers, all have their opinions...One prime example Geraldo and his conspiracy theories...One can take any bit of info and make a case for whatever they want to promote...


Ken Ehrlich, executive producer of Grammy Awards, said he met Jackson there on Wednesday for a business meeting and spoke to him for about 20 minutes before Jackson invited him to watch him rehearse.

Ehrlich said he left after watching Jackson work through five or six numbers, but got chills from watching him - a memory that seems especially precious now. The star showed no signs that he would die less than 24 hours later, he said.

It appears that this long time friend, Producer of Grammy Awards, watched him for 1/2 dozen numbers...
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090626/entertainment/us_michael_jackson_final_days

LMS

Thanx for the good link. Some more sources mentioned...

The more I read the sadder I get that he can't experience the shows anymore.

[Scampi]

MSNBC is reporting that Katherine Jackson has filed for guardianship of the children. If MJ had provided for his children's guardian in his will, why would this be necessary?

[VC2]

Another factor is this:

When you starve, like MJ appears to have done, your body starts consuming its muscles for protein.
It will consume the heart muscle as well. Eventually the heart fails.
This could be a very serious contributing factor and will show up in the slides they took.

Karen Carpenter, of the musical duo the Carpenters, died from this cardiac failure. She was anoretic.

If MJ was not getting enough potassium and magnesium from his diet, and the heart was weakening, it would be unable to sustain contractions properly with low electrolytes added to the muscle loss (which is called sarcopenia). The media claims he was only eating 1 meal a day now.
Unless he was getting mega supplements, he might not have been getting the 4.5 grams of potassium we all need daily to stay alive.

i think it is very likely the 2 undigested or semi ingested pills in his stomach were mega vitamins. Someone who does not like to eat much but is managing hours of training a day and workouts with a professional trainer is likely taking mega vitamins. They don't put on weight but they do give some of what is needed.

The daily mail, if i was not on dial up i would go thru their piece para by para and show where they got every part and then where they embellished. Its all in links from before their piece.

dont believe all the stories yet. I have yet to hear anyone even with a decent source and the conspiracy theories imo are just geraldo and others making hay while the sun shines.

IMO

[CinderL.]

Did anyone hear that Debbie R. said she is not going to go for custody of the 2 kids? I heard this morning that she said she had been artificially inseminated, and it was just like she would do with one of her mares. :ohmy: She said she has no maternal feelings and was just doing it for MJ.

[VC2]

i think it is very likely the 2 undigested or semi ingested pills in his stomach were mega vitamins. Someone who does not like to eat much but is managing hours of training a day and workouts with a professional trainer is likely taking mega vitamins. They don't put on weight but they do give some of what is needed.

The daily mail, if i was not on dial up i would go thru their piece para by para and show where they got every part and then where they embellished. Its all in links from before their piece.

dont believe all the stories yet. I have yet to hear anyone even with a decent source and the conspiracy theories imo are just geraldo and others making hay while the sun shines.

IMO

LOL i guess TMZ did it for me, i posted this before i read the info it was a fake.

And posted the same with more examples at 3 am or so.

So remember all, alot of this is all garbage that is being said

[Unperson1984]

MSNBC is reporting that Katherine Jackson has filed for guardianship of the children. If MJ had provided for his children's guardian in his will, why would this be necessary?

Guardianship through a Will is not automatic. Children aren't property and cannot be "Willed" to another party. The Court will take the decedent's wishes into consideration, but they are not bound by those wishes.

I think the Grandmother, although not ideal, is the best choice. IMO

[VC2]

my thoughts which i will keep until the results

1. MJ was very thin, emaciated perhaps, but in decent shape, training and working out for the show.

2. All of that, combined with dehydration, an auto immune disorder or 2 and high stress could cause his heart to give out alone

3. Likely had meds on board, however they could be in therapeutic doses and actually have had nothing to do with his death or they contributed because of his dehydration and his excess pressure on his body.

JMO

[who_is_it]

Guardianship through a Will is not automatic. Children aren't property and cannot be "Willed" to another party. The Court will take the decedent's wishes into consideration, but they are not bound by those wishes.

I think the Grandmother, although not ideal, is the best choice. IMO

My first thought was the nanny Gracy though I don't think it's correct that she spoke out to the media about private matters.

The grandmother is married to Joe Jackson... -- not a good person. Furthermore she's not the youngest. Imagine another caregiver dies!

The Godfather, Mark Lester, said the kids should live in the US (not the UK).

But as you say children can't be "willed" to another person; therefore what would be good has no meaning.

[VC2]

MSNBC is reporting that Katherine Jackson has filed for guardianship of the children. If MJ had provided for his children's guardian in his will, why would this be necessary?

either to fight the guardian ship or because they have not spoken to Branca.

Here is the problem, the parents are not next of kin, the kids are. MJs attorney's have no need to go to the parents, and i suspect a reluctance to do so if Joe is going to be involved.

It would be interesting if the executor is not a family member, they could just file it for probate first. Many if not all were totally disgusted at Joe last night.

IMO

eta and joe said he and katherine were in total charge, i do NOT believe it. No way did Michael leave joe in charge of his estate, not unless he was completely of unsound mind, and i dont mean a few narcotics. Apparently family friends said no will was found, which we now know to be untrue. It just probably was not in his belongings

IMO

[Scampi]

Guardianship through a Will is not automatic. Children aren't property and cannot be "Willed" to another party. The Court will take the decedent's wishes into consideration, but they are not bound by those wishes.

I think the Grandmother, although not ideal, is the best choice. IMO

You're right of course. I misspoke when saying will, I was actually hoping that MJ had a trust that provided for guardianship and funds to take care of the children.

MSNBC is now reporting that Dr. Murray was to be paid $150,000 a month for his services as MJ's personal physician and that he is now claiming he is owed $300,000 in back pay.

I tell ya, I don't like this man, I hope he is looked at very hard by law enforcement.:thumbdown:

[who_is_it]

Can you imagine the change in lifestyle their father's death means for those children? MO = grandmother, and especially grandfather, not a good choice for long term guardianship.

It's horrible as they were very close to their father.

[FallenAngel♥]

You're right of course. I misspoke when saying will, I was actually hoping that MJ had a trust that provided for guardianship and funds to take care of the children.

MSNBC is now reporting that Dr. Murray was to be paid $150,000 a month for his services as MJ's personal physician and that he is now claiming he is owed $300,000 in back pay.

I tell ya, I don't like this man, I hope he is looked at very hard by law enforcement.:thumbdown:

I feel the same way Scampi. Something just doesn't smell right.

[Unperson1984]

My first thought was the nanny Gracy though I don't think it's correct that she spoke out to the media about private matters.

The grandmother is married to Joe Jackson... -- not a good person. Furthermore she's not the youngest. Imagine another caregiver dies!

The Godfather, Mark Lester, said the kids should live in the US (not the UK).

But as you say children can't be "willed" to another person; therefore what would be good has no meaning.


My only reservation about Katherine Jackson is her age. The death of a parent or the primary person in a child's life is so very traumatic that I hate to think of the children going through it a second time in their young lives. Yet with a guardian over eighty-years-old it seems a certainty, especially for the youngest one.

I thought if one of Michael’s brothers had a stable family it would be ideal, parents of the right age and still close to the grandparents. However I know nothing about the brothers lives or circumstances.

I do hope that the Court appoints a financial guardian for the children.

[CinderL.]

I did read that and she is quoted in Huff Post as saying, "she does not want them and does not expect to see the kids again". It is what it is. Children are raised by Grandparents all over America and the World. In countries that have been decimentated by Aids, most of the kids are raised by Grandparents.

I wouldn't have wanted someone who thinks like this to get the kids. Kathrine I think will be good for the kids. But, she is 80 yrs old. Maybe Grace and Kathrine would work together. ??

[CinderL.]

Re: Joe - waving my hand........."We've lost a superstar" not "I've lost my son." Michael was a commodity in his eyes. MO

And still is. :cursing:

[Scampi]

either to fight the guardian ship or because they have not spoken to Branca.

Here is the problem, the parents are not next of kin, the kids are. MJs attorney's have no need to go to the parents, and i suspect a reluctance to do so if Joe is going to be involved.

It would be interesting if the executor is not a family member, they could just file it for probate first. Many if not all were totally disgusted at Joe last night.

IMO

eta and joe said he and katherine were in total charge, i do NOT believe it. No way did Michael leave joe in charge of his estate, not unless he was completely of unsound mind, and i dont mean a few narcotics. Apparently family friends said no will was found, which we now know to be untrue. It just probably was not in his belongings

IMO


ITA with you VC, I doubt Joe and Katherine were designated as executor's of his estate and maybe not even as caretakers for the children.

It's going to be very interesting to see what exactly his directions were and in what form.

Joe and Katherine may not even be in charge of the funeral arrangements, imo.

In life MJ relied on managers and attorneys, I see nothing to indicate he would all of a sudden rely on "family" in death.

[who_is_it]

The article fron Daphne whoever, was debunked. I don't save many links, if someone has it will you post it? Thanks

No, unfortunately I didn't save the orginal link. The was another "Times Online" article about Jackson debunked -- one which I've read but which was not topic here at the board.

[Scampi]

I feel the same way Scampi. Something just doesn't smell right.

Hiya Friend!!! Yep, on Nancy Snyderman's new show this afternoon, she spoke of the red flags regarding Murray:

Improper CPR technique.

No certification and yet passing himself off as a "cardiologist."

No admitting privileges at any hospitals.

Sees patients in three states, panel thought that was ridiculous, as no patient could get proper care.

Ethical problem when an opiate addicted patient with money, isolates himself with a "personal" physican with no peer review.


....and now with MJ not even buried, Murray is whining about money due him. (my thoughts.)

[CinderL.]

Whats with the devotion to Grace? She was fired by MJ, has been quoted all over the net saying terrible things about Michael and she should be raising these kids? I don't think so. You can be sure Ms Jackson will have lots of help.

I have heard that a lot of MJ closest friends were fired it the last few months. And, one very old friend said that the people that were around MJ were keeping him isolated from many of his family and friends. Read the post about Grace not saying much of what was printed. She did raise those kids. And loves them, I believe. Mrs. Jackson also called her to come to LA.

[who_is_it]

Court Fight Over Custody Looms:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090629/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson

"The filings show that Katherine Jackson is also petitioning to take over the children's estate. Its value is listed as "unknown" in the filing."

Court date 8/3/09. It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$ - MO

To be honest I would wish at least some of the new songs in the hands of the promoters (sealed by contracts). The Jackson family gets enough of the cake.

[VC2]

Court Fight Over Custody Looms:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090629/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson

"The filings show that Katherine Jackson is also petitioning to take over the children's estate. Its value is listed as "unknown" in the filing."

Court date 8/3/09. It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$ - MO

yep and katherine does not strike me as the sort to go filing for the estate, i bet my bottom dollar this is a Joe move.

IMO

[MiamiNice1]

Guardianship through a Will is not automatic. Children aren't property and cannot be "Willed" to another party. The Court will take the decedent's wishes into consideration, but they are not bound by those wishes.

I think the Grandmother, although not ideal, is the best choice. IMO
:seeya: Hi Unperson!

I believe this Jackson-filing-for-guardianship move is nothing more than a transparent (Joe Jackson) power play. Do MJ's parents believe it is somehow "first come, first serve?" Do they believe this will "prove" they deserve the kids the most?

Ugh. Let the disaster begin.

imo

[who_is_it]

I have heard that a lot of MJ closest friends were fired it the last few months. And, one very old friend said that the people that were around MJ were keeping him isolated from many of his family and friends. Read the post about Grace not saying much of what was printed. She did raise those kids. And loves them, I believe. Mrs. Jackson also called her to come to LA.

I remain sceptical about the influence of the "Nation of Islam".

Nevertheless I've read an article some months before his death. Randy Phillips said that people surrounded Michael who weren't a good choice. In this interview he said that he tried to get on board his old friends again, like for example Frank Dileo. Maybe THIS is why people have been fired.

[CinderL.]

I remain sceptical about the influence of the "Nation of Islam".

Nevertheless I've read an article some months before his death. Randy Phillips said that people surrounded Michael who weren't a good choice. In this interview he said that he tried to get on board his old friends again, like for example Frank Dileo. Maybe THIS is why people have been fired.

Yeah that is what I think. And Grace. It seems those that had been around him for years were all of a sudden....out. Strange.

[Unperson1984]

Hiya Friend!!! Yep, on Nancy Snyderman's new show this afternoon, she spoke of the red flags regarding Murray:

Improper CPR technique.

No certification and yet passing himself off as a "cardiologist."

No admitting privileges at any hospitals.

Sees patients in three states, panel thought that was ridiculous, as no patient could get proper care.

Ethical problem when an opiate addicted patient with money, isolates himself with a "personal" physican with no peer review.


....and now with MJ not even buried, Murray is whining about money due him. (my thoughts.)

There are so any rumors flying around, but I thought it odd that he didn't sign the Death Certificate.

As far as the $300k, I thought he had only been there 11 days?

[MiamiNice1]

Yeah that is what I think. And Grace. It seems those that had been around him for years were all of a sudden....out. Strange.
The entire scenario of MJ's life (Nanny Grace's account as well) just REEKS of the nightmare of living with a drug addict:

The mooching off others, emaciation, rollercoaster life, anger, financial mess, cutting off the "good" friends, leaving behind a path of emotional, physical and financial destruction.

imo

[sofiesmom]

Thanks. Another song I haven't heard in forever.

I think a little part of my generation died with him. I think my daughter would say the same with regard to her generation. Her first alblum was the one just after Thriller. Yup. Was an LP. Most likely the last LP I ever purchased. Cannot recall the name at the moment. She's 28 and was in tears.

I've known about Michael Jackson since I can remember anything. I think I was 7 or 8 when the Jackson 5 became famous. I was going to marry him, or Donny Osmond.

Still, so sad.I think I finally decided on DO, but MJ was a close second for my husband. I'm late in posting this, but my computer keeps going down. I was absolutely sure I'd marry one of them. I barely remember the Sat. morning cartoons, but I for sure remember MJ's "Off The Wall" album and the others that followed.

My sister went to the "Victory Tour". I will forever regret not going.

[~layla~]

snipped for relevence

Frankly, I don't see the need for speculation of any kind, but that's just me.

IMO


Then why are you here. This board is widely known for speculation.

[CinderL.]

An LA judge has granted temporary custody to Kathrine.

[mrsmcgoo]

AP: Katherine Jackson has been granted guardianship of the 3 children - just announced on FOX

Hi Athena...do you know if she lives with Joe? I remember reading that they didn't live together years ago, am hoping this is true.


JMO

[CinderL.]

Then why are you here. This board is widely known for speculation.
:laugh::laugh:

[CinderL.]

Hi Athena...do you know if she lives with Joe? I remember reading that they didn't live together years ago, am hoping this is true.


JMO

Someone last night said he lives in Vegas. But, I bet he sticks around LA now. Yuck.

[Scampi]

According to Romaine Bain last night on Geraldo she was fired but not by MJ. She was fired by whoever handles his business affairs. The same people fired Romaine Bain and prevented the family from seeing MJ as well. Looks like they cut off anyone from MJ who he trusted.

Sounds like a situation ripe for abuse. I can see someone firing a long time employee, claiming to be delivering MJ's decision and then telling MJ the employee quit. Whoever was isolating MJ had the power, imo.

[AlohaRainbow]

There are so any rumors flying around, but I thought it odd that he didn't sign the Death Certificate.

As far as the $300k, I thought he had only been there 11 days?

re the death certificate, i'm not surprised dr murray didn't sign it because he would need to know the cause of death (other than cardiac arrest, since cardiac arrest can have multiple underlying causes). and IF it's true that he found michael not breathing but with a faint pulse, then apparently there was a respiratory arrest prior to the cardiac arrest. there are enough other things to be suspicious about re dr murray, but i would be more suspicious if he had signed the death certificate.

[MiamiNice1]

http://www.intent.com/mallikachopra/blog/bloodsuckers-and-world-michael-jackson

Aobtd just posted this.
Thanks to Snazzy and Aobtd!

What a fiasco.....but it doesn't really refute anything besides the stomach pumping (which many of us couldn't understand how that could be true).

It is entirely possibly that this Daphne took advantage of Grace in her grief - but I do know from what I have read of the Sheikh, that Grace's story by Daphne is the same story the Sheikh in Bahrain told as explanation for his suing MJ.

I believe much in that story to be true.

imo

[annalyzer]

I don't hold it against DR for stating how she feels. If she in fact said that she only told the truth. She was just a vessel to give MJ children. If she now was wanting custody of the kids people would be saying she is only after money.

Why didn't MJ and DR have children via the normal route, copulation? Why did he marry her?

Rowe - Jackson Marriage:
Michael Jackson's November 15, 1996 marriage to Debbie Rowe, a former nurse, age 37, took place at a hotel suite in Sydney, Australia. She knew Jackson for 15 years before they were married, and was apparently six months pregnant at the time of their marriage.
Although she also cited irreconcilable differences as a reason for their divorce in 1999, on 4/27/05 she testified at the Michael Jackson trial that "[we] never shared a home; we never shared an apartment."
She also stated that she had not seen her children in more than two years. Debbie had been limited to seeing her children only every 45 days, and then for only eight hours under the supervision of a nanny.

After her divorce, she received a $1 million home in Beverly Hills, but had to sign a confidentiality agreement stating that she couldn't speak to the press or anyone in the public about "Michael, the children or our lives together."

http://marriage.about.com/cs/celebritymarriages/p/michaeljackson.htm

[MiamiNice1]

Debbie Rowe deserves them least. I don't think it's a power play. She had to go to court to get legal guardianship. That is very normal. Someone has to have guardianship even in the event they need medical care. What would you have suggested ?
I made NO mention of Debbie Rowe. I find her despicable.

I found the Jacksons, entering this at 9:00am Monday morning, a bit of desperation. I would suggest waiting for the Will (even though as Unperson stated, that is not the decider) and for the Executor decisions.

[Scampi]

I wish Fox News had transcripts. It was also said there are lots of questions swirling around this Dr. Thome (sp). No one knows much about him -- he is from the Middle East and not even sure he is licensed in the US.

According to TMZ the police are interested in talking to this man:

Dr. Tohme says he's Jackson's longtime friend and manager. He tells us, "I don't have anything to do with his (Michael's) medication or health. This is B.S. -- why should I talk to police?"

http://www.tmz.com/tag/dr.+thome+thome/

What a prince. :thumbdown:

[MiamiNice1]

I think there may be certain elements that are truth but much of it is twisted or outright lies. The article was written by Dr. Chapro's daughter. There are two parts to it; thus the two links

Also on Fox News last night it turns out MJ did NOT fire her - his people fired her - and she was the last person to go that he trusted. He has been isolated from his family as well. They couldn't even get telephone calls to him.
I don't know why you're so defensive OR how you could possibly know "much of it is twisted or outright lies." :shrug: And who cares WHO fired Grace - the ultimate boss was Michael and apparently he was fine with the decision.

I'm sure Grace is regretting saying a word to Daphne. Now, what the truth is or what are lies is another matter altogether and NONE of us can possibly know for sure.

[mrsmcgoo]

Thanks for replies in regards to Joe Jackson's residence.

Hopefully he will not be staying with Katherine, but I certainly can see this happening. He is an opportunist as far as I am concerned.

[GentleBreeze]

Debbie Rowe deserves them least. I don't think it's a power play. She had to go to court to get legal guardianship. That is very normal. Someone has to have guardianship even in the event they need medical care. What would you have suggested ?

I think they are doing what Michael would have wanted and expected them to do.

imo

[fizzle]

Actually, the term "Pumping" someones stomach is a very old fashion/old school term used by laypeople when one induces vomiting ..this can be done with drinking warm water with mustard/salt, the old handy dandy toothbrush to gag, finger down the throat...and of course in hospital we use Ipecec..liquid which enduces vomiting...So it may just her way of describing that...

Even us old foggies used that term, when in actual fact we washed out the stomach with tube and water..but only when someone was so obtund and had no gag reflex was that done..Who knows..maybe she had been shown how to do it??We just cant apply our common sense to their circumstances..The whole lifestyle there was certainly Non-Conventional..

LMS:laugh:

I'm shocked that there are hospitals that use Ipecac anymore, since it can cause severe damage to the heart. Charcoal is a more common choice anymore, as far as I know. I know you used to be able to buy ipecac off the shelf and it was recommended to have on hand in case a toddler swallowed something toxic, but I am pretty sure it has not been commonly recommended since the late 80s.

I am guessing she was being specific - they had a "pump", basically a machine that administers charcoal via tube to induce vomiting. I'd also go so far as to venture a guess that it was also used by him to help maintain/lose weight, as horrific as that probably sounds.

[who_is_it]

Yeah that is what I think. And Grace. It seems those that had been around him for years were all of a sudden....out. Strange.

I found what I recalled, here's the source:

"Phillips says he has built 'a protective wall to stop people getting to him the way they used to'. Jackson has tried to reconvene what he calls “the old team” — that is, his collaborators from the glory days of the 1980s. Frank DiLeo, his former manager, who, according to Phillips, 'has a real good way of dealing with Michael', is back on board."

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article6372171.ece?token=null&offset=24&page=3
article BEFORE Michael's death

[who_is_it]

Wow -- "long-time friend and manger" Maybe he's the one that signed that contract for 50 concerts unbeknownst to MJ who thought he was just signing up for 10. Something definitely not right here.

They had plans for more than 50 concerts. There was a three years plan.

"He reveals a phased three-year touring plan that will take Jackson to Europe, then the Far East, winding up in the Americas in 2011."

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article6372171.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1
This article was published BEFORE his death. I had bookmarked it.

Unlike you I believe Michael himself WANTED it -- maybe not as many shows but I believe he wanted a comeback.

[who_is_it]

Thanks for replies in regards to Joe Jackson's residence.

Hopefully he will not be staying with Katherine, but I certainly can see this happening. He is an opportunist as far as I am concerned.

I didn't know this, either. I thought they live together.

[who_is_it]

UPDATE

Michael Jackson -- Drugs Likely Cause of Death
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/michael-jackson-drugs-overdose-demerol/

Now the demerol shot which the doc denied is mentioned again.

[CinderL.]

UPDATE

Michael Jackson -- Drugs Likely Cause of Death
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/michael-jackson-drugs-overdose-demerol/

Now the demerol shot which the doc denied is mentioned again.

I am curious to know how they know he got an injection? If what people were saying and the 911 call is right, the Dr. was the only one with him. How do they find out these things?:confused:

[FallenAngel♥]

UPDATE

Michael Jackson -- Drugs Likely Cause of Death
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/michael-jackson-drugs-overdose-demerol/

Now the demerol shot which the doc denied is mentioned again.

I'm thinking that doc might not be a doc much longer.

[FallenAngel♥]

I am curious to know how they know he got an injection? If what people were saying and the 911 call is right, the Dr. was the only one with him. How do they find out these things?:confused:

injection marks show up quickly after death. at the hospital i'm sure they could tell if he had any injections. and by the marks around the injection they can usually tell how long it had been since it was giving.

i'll try to find a link...i remember this was brought up during some trial.

[Unperson1984]

I am curious to know how they know he got an injection? If what people were saying and the 911 call is right, the Dr. was the only one with him. How do they find out these things?:confused:

Injection marks on the body.

[Citygirl]

I am curious to know how they know he got an injection? If what people were saying and the 911 call is right, the Dr. was the only one with him. How do they find out these things?:confused:


One way would be to actually see with your own eyes..the hole the needle made.
The ME could also examine the tissue at the injection site to learn what med was injected..

[CinderL.]

Wow - looking at those dates he had one night in between each date. :ohmy:

And where was it that we heard that originally the tour was only going to be 10, and the tickets sold out so fast that they added the extra 40, and that was when MJ got p***ed?

[CinderL.]

injection marks show up quickly after death. at the hospital i'm sure they could tell if he had any injections. and by the marks around the injection they can usually tell how long it had been since it was giving.

i'll try to find a link...i remember this was brought up during some trial.


That is true. Forgot about that. But, they wouldn't know what it was....so was someone else there?

[FallenAngel♥]

Wow - looking at those dates he had one night in between each date. :ohmy:

omg.....were they seriously TRYING to kill this guy. Because what kind of human could do all those dates?

[who_is_it]

I was just going to post the same thing. So which is the truth ?

I have no idea but I tend to believe the demerol-and-other-drugs version. This is equal to the first info which was published. The later denial might have been damage control.

[CinderL.]

The doctor claims he did not give him demerol -- apparently someone did - it would show up in the toxicology report. Me thinks someone is going to be charged with negligence if true and worse if he lied about it. Leaks from the autopsy report did say there were needle marks on his thighs or legs? and 4 in his heart (the ones in the heart are believed to adrenalin to kick start the heart)

I think you are right. The Dr.'s attny. sure is adamant that the Dr. didn't give him anything. We'll see.

[FallenAngel♥]

That is true. Forgot about that. But, they wouldn't know what it was....so was someone else there?

they can tell what's in his blood and urine and body tissues.

not sure about demeral but with morphine you can sometimes find it in the tissues around the injection marks.

[VC2]

:seeya: Hi Unperson!

I believe this Jackson-filing-for-guardianship move is nothing more than a transparent (Joe Jackson) power play. Do MJ's parents believe it is somehow "first come, first serve?" Do they believe this will "prove" they deserve the kids the most?

Ugh. Let the disaster begin.

imo

i agree but she has been granted temporary guardianship. ok that makes sense at the moment.

Far as grace goes, i had my suspicions when i read she had to "pump his stomach" many times. That is not a procedure you do at home, and its certainly not one that a someone without medical training does. I believed she was fired by MJ or that he was terrible with his finances or that he took painkillers, but the other stuff? not so sure bc of the pump stomach imo was an obvious lie and not what grace would have said

JMO

[CinderL.]

they can tell what's in his blood and urine and body tissues.

not sure about demeral but with morphine you can sometimes find it in the tissues around the injection marks.

Does this remind you all of another case? Which I won't mention. :wink: