6/27 to 6/28 -- #5

[4Life]

I can't begin to imagine what she meant. What do you think?

Drugs or disease?
Not sure
I'm just going to wait for the report

[legalmania]

Has there been anything about drugs being in his system, I know with a urine screen test they can tell at least some of the drugs he may have had in his system.

[CinderL.]

Drugs or disease?
Not sure
I'm just going to wait for the report

Maybe it is this. :scared::laugh:

Neverland Ranch Investigators Discover Corpse Of Real Michael Jackson

March 16, 2005 | Issue 41•11


http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30940

[mrsmcgoo]

Got to log out... but one more question:

Probably Jordy never had to work for his living. Does anyone know what his educational background is?


Wasn't this boy 13 when this happened? Weren't all the victims barely teenage boys? So how did they become criminals? Why are they being attacked here? They were children, if you have a beef, take it to their parents. I am not aware of any charges these boys ever faced. They were not put on trial and don't deserve to be here.


JMO

[aproudmom]

Drugs or disease?
Not sure
I'm just going to wait for the report

me to I think perhaps she meant drug abuse and illnesses I do not think she meant anything to do with his body..such as him changing his body parts..so I am with you I will wait

[who_is_it]

Amazing he comes out and says this after MJ is dead. Of course he knew it wasn't criminal. He totally betrayed MJ. He knows he edited that tape - almost 6 hours of it. JMHO

Martin Bashir On Jackson:

Listen to his video statement

"I think all of us were shocked and deeply saddened by the news today. I was actually out running in Central Park when I heard, and came home, showered and came into the office.

Many of us were excited about the prospect of him performing in London. Thousands of people had bought tickets from all over the world. And now to hear to hear this news is very, very sad.

I think it's worth remembering that he was probably, singly, the greatest dancer and musician the world has ever seen.

Certainly when I made the documentary, there was a small part of that which contained a controversy concerning his relationship with other young people. But the truth is that he was never convicted of any crime, I never saw any wrongdoing myself. And last his lifestyle may have been unorthodox, I don't believe it was criminal. And I think the world has now lost the greatest entertainer it's probably ever known."


http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=7933530&page=1

He should just shut his trap imo. "unorthodox"..., he just can't stop to say negative. It was HIS documentary which started the whole mess.

[who_is_it]

Wasn't this boy 13 when this happened? Weren't all the victims barely teenage boys? So how did they become criminals? Why are they being attacked here? They were children, if you have a beef, take it to their parents. I am not aware of any charges these boys ever faced. They were not put on trial and don't deserve to be here.


JMO

I asked for Jordy's educational background (= open question). Nothing more.

[who_is_it]

This kind of person makes me sick, they are just scum. He'll sell his soul to get attention. He had to find a way to get back in the spotlight. If he was lying and knew it he should have to pay every penny back, but he knows with Michael being dead he won't have to.

He never accused MJ of anything (there were no lies) but he edited his footage in a way that he appeared in a bad light. Yep, he sold his soul respectively made money by a person for which he never felt appreciation.

[who_is_it]

One British paper dished the dirt by the fake Terry George story. Terry George himself set up a blog how he was deceived by the media.

http://www.terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?topic=76

[aproudmom]

http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/decisions/appellate/a0422-05.opn.html

SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY

The judge found that plaintiff had proved that he and his father, the defendant, were members of the same household when defendant struck him on the head from behind with a twelve and one-half pound weight and then sprayed his eyes with mace or pepper spray and tried to choke him. The judge also found that the weight could cause serious bodily injury or death. Thus, the judge was satisfied that plaintiff had provided evidence, which if believed, would support a finding of aggravated assault. Despite that finding, the judge refused to issue a final restraining order,

[MoonHarvest]

I am also uncomfortable with the allegations about Mike Jackson. I would hate horribly for him to be accused of molestations if he did not do them. But, at the same time I am really uncomfortable if he did. What I can't get away from is that I've now read about the young man in Great Britain who says M Jackson called him regularly, and at one time, (excuse me here) did something with himself while talking with the then youngster on the phone. :shrug: Now three accusations. I kind of think there may have been a problem. It's all sad no matter.

BTW.. I wonder what Liza M meant with her statement, also Lisa Marie P.

[who_is_it]

Let's not forget there were hours of that documentary edited and much of what was said was edited. Even Martin Bashir now all of a sudden comes out and says - it may have been unorthodox but he doesn't believe it was criminal. Me thinks his conscience is bothering him. Bashir's documentary on Princess Diana put her in a bad light too! He is a sleaze journalist - belongs in the same category with DD JMHO

"Best" was that he got a job at CNN after his biased "documentary".

[who_is_it]

I am also uncomfortable with the allegations about Mike Jackson. I would hate horribly for him to be accused of molestations if he did not do them. But, at the same time I am really uncomfortable if he did. What I can't get away from is that I've now read about the young man in Great Britain who says M Jackson called him regularly, and at one time, (excuse me here) did something with himself while talking with the then youngster on the phone. :shrug: Now three accusations. I kind of think there may have been a problem. It's all sad no matter.

BTW.. I wonder what Liza M meant with her statement, also Lisa Marie P.

READ, PLEASE!

I posted this above before. Read the young man's own website!

http://www.terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?topic=76

[MoonHarvest]

READ, PLEASE!

I posted this above before. Read the young man's own website!

http://www.terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?topic=76


Yes, I had started to pen this before I saw your post.

[legalmania]

Yes, urine will tell alot of about metabolites ( breakdowns )..but mostly they are only positive or negative findings..until more elaborate tests are done on blood, vitreous ( eyeball fluid), liver, etc....

No doubt, the autopsy found metabolites..but require those pesky definitive blood levels and body fluid levels to fit into the puzzle of other tissue findings..

LMS:closed eyes:

At least by now we usually hear he had some traces of narcotics in his system. They are really keeping tight lipped on this one I guess they don't want to make the same kind of mistakes they did when he died. Like some stations had him alive and some had him dead.

[Lyvia]

Hi MoonHarvest -- The guy in Great Britain was a hoax and was debunked a while ago. This stuff is just cropping up all over again as if true. :(

Do you have a link to it being debunked? I don't recall that it ever was. I'll look, too, but during the trial, I remember this and I don't believe it wasn't debunked back then.

[MoonHarvest]

Hi MoonHarvest -- The guy in Great Britain was a hoax and was debunked a while ago. This stuff is just cropping up all over again as if true. :(

Oh my. This is really sad.

I admire many posters here. How does it seem the majority feel in regards to the allegations?

[who_is_it]

Blogger Michael K joked today: "In an interview with the prestigious and well-respected News of the World..." Hahaha!

[aproudmom]

Wasn't this boy 13 when this happened? Weren't all the victims barely teenage boys? So how did they become criminals? Why are they being attacked here? They were children, if you have a beef, take it to their parents. I am not aware of any charges these boys ever faced. They were not put on trial and don't deserve to be here.


JMO

who is being attacked here

[sunstar]

And still no news source to Jordan's statement.

Maybe Geraldo will have something tonight! Anyone email him yet? :laugh:

[Cardinal]

Maybe I'm a little more skeptical of sexual molestation allegations than most. I have a dear friend, a good Christian woman, whose daughter from her first marriage accused her second husband of sexual molestation. Never mind that first husband abandoned the family when the child was 2 and second husband raised her as well as his own daughter; at age 16, she decided she wanted to live with her birth father and made the allegations to keep from being brought home. My friend found emails between the girl and her ex, plotting the whole thing. No matter, CPS got involved and investigated for 2 years. My friend's husband was forced to leave their home and couldn't see his own daughter - and they tried to get his daughter to admit being abused. The older girl eventually admitted she lied, but CPS wouldn't stop the investigation or let my friend's husband move back home. Their lives were nearly destroyed, by a lie.

So I'm not so quick to believe allegations any more. And the allegations against MJ have too many discrepancies for me.

[who_is_it]

Yes, I had started to pen this before I saw your post.

It was parallel, I think.

@ your question: I'm tired of discussing the allegations. I just comment or post links when it's easy to disprove (without many words).

[Lyvia]

Let's not forget there were hours of that documentary edited and much of what was said was edited. Even Martin Bashir now all of a sudden comes out and says - it may have been unorthodox but he doesn't believe it was criminal. Me thinks his conscience is bothering him. Bashir's documentary on Princess Diana put her in a bad light too! He is a sleaze journalist - belongs in the same category with DD JMHO

I am not talking about the Bashir piece. Jackson said he'd let his children sleep with someone accused of child molestation in his CBS interview. It was a fairly long exchange, not edited, and he said exactly what I said he did. Even in his own rebuttal, he makes statements about how great it is for adults to sleep in the bed with children.

So if you fault parents for letting them sleep with Michael Jackson, you have to fault him for saying he'd let his kids sleep with someone accused of child molestation.

How would you like anyone else to teach your kids that? Not that if an adult tries to get you into bed, run. That it's a nice, normal thing. No one who loves children selflessly would say any such thing, imo.

[sunstar]

I don't think it was a big deal what Grace said about MJ even the MJ family lawyer admitted that MJ had a problem and that they were planning to intervention

That's true. I was mainly thinking about her saying anything negative about him right now that might not go over too well with the family. MOO

[aproudmom]

If anyone cares to read the comment it has alot of links going back to when he was accused of molestation...not that it matters people will either think he did wrong or he did not..


2007 October 25 the floacist permalink
http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/where-is-jordan-chandler-now/


Evan Chandler was caught on tape speaking about his extortion plans on the telephone. You can read the whole transcript here

http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/the-tapes-will-come-out-court-transcript-of-chandler

[who_is_it]

@ analyzer

On Sundays TMZ runs its website with little staff only. You could feel so because on Sundays they always post photo albums etc. (which probably have been prepared days before).

[MoonHarvest]

Sigh Athena. A big sigh.

I think he lost a lot of fans, respect, and admiration because it is all so confusing and uncomfortable.

[R~O~S]

Wasn't this boy 13 when this happened? Weren't all the victims barely teenage boys? So how did they become criminals? Why are they being attacked here? They were children, if you have a beef, take it to their parents. I am not aware of any charges these boys ever faced. They were not put on trial and don't deserve to be here.


JMO


What forum are you reading? I've gotten this far in reading back and I don't see a single poster suggesting anything other than the parent who designed the fraud should be held responsible, if in fact there's even been a statement from Jordan. I and everyone else are still waiting for corroboration in the MSM and the exact statement Jordan made in full.

I'm sorry if you're feeling guilty for your assumption which were never even taken to a court room, but it doesn't justify making yet more unfounded accusations here.

[SDMermaid]

ITA with you everyone around MJ is so quick to blame everyone else for MJ's problems but it was his money and he chose to have the people around him and if he didn't like what you said to him your were fired like Grace. I don't feel he was a victim in life he choose to play the victim in his adult life. Let's not forget how many people MJ screwed over in business deals I can't even keep up with all the people suing him. I didn't have the greatest childhood but I am a responsible adult and I know when to spend money and when not to. MJ was not stable enough to raise kids he needed to fix himself first before bring kids in the picture. There are too many mentally ill people that have kids and that is just selfish to have kids if you can't give them a stable life. Just like drug addicts having kids and alcoholics having kids it should happen until they get their life together.

Yes, he punished her a bit. But he also punished the kids for having a caring relationship with someone other than himself. Grace states that the children were "uneasy" with him. MJ was angry at them and they were frightened when Blanket was caught singing and entertaining Grace and the other kids. It doesn't surprised me because of how he was raised, but unlike some others, I don't see him as a life-long victim in all situations and his daily life. Lots of blaming of everyone but MJ.

[who_is_it]

Maybe I'm a little more skeptical of sexual molestation allegations than most. I have a dear friend, a good Christian woman, whose daughter from her first marriage accused her second husband of sexual molestation. Never mind that first husband abandoned the family when the child was 2 and second husband raised her as well as his own daughter; at age 16, she decided she wanted to live with her birth father and made the allegations to keep from being brought home. My friend found emails between the girl and her ex, plotting the whole thing. No matter, CPS got involved and investigated for 2 years. My friend's husband was forced to leave their home and couldn't see his own daughter - and they tried to get his daughter to admit being abused. The older girl eventually admitted she lied, but CPS wouldn't stop the investigation or let my friend's husband move back home. Their lives were nearly destroyed, by a lie.

So I'm not so quick to believe allegations any more. And the allegations against MJ have too many discrepancies for me.

I feel very sorry for the man. What a tragical sorry. Most tragic is that children -- inferior to adults -- are instructed to lie.
:rose:

[Cardinal]

Sigh Athena. A big sigh.

I think he lost a lot of fans, respect, and admiration because it is all so confusing and uncomfortable.

I think you just hit on it. It's confusing and uncomfortable, because it isn't done any more. It isn't done any more because of the heightened awareness about sexual molestation and because it isn't necessary.

But my grandmother had 7 children and 6 brothers living in her house. There were 5 beds. And yes, the younger boys slept with her brothers. In those days, no one thought anything about it.

[Lyvia]

Sigh Athena. A big sigh.

I think he lost a lot of fans, respect, and admiration because it is all so confusing and uncomfortable.

True. To defend a practice he couldn't stop, even when it cost him millions and even when he risked prison, he said he'd let his own children sleep with someone accused of child molestation. His only caveat: "If I know the person." Yeah, most of the time parents know the person who molested their children.

What parent here would want someone their child idolized to suggest sleeping in beds with adults is normal. That's something that could put a child at risk. A pedophile could use that to lure a child. "Michael Jackson said this is the most loving thing...." It's sick. He was so selfish he didn't even think of the possible repercussions.

I am unwilling to violate the copyright rules here to post what he said, but thankfully, posters like Athena keep doing it for me. They do it to dispute my claims, but they only prove them.

imo

[SDMermaid]

I wouldn't blame the people around MJ the were paid to do as he says and if you didn't you were fired.


Maybe he was. He obviously had no clue about money. It's a shame there weren't people in his life who cared about getting him help instead of riding on his coattails. Including his family.

[mrsmcgoo]

What forum are you reading? I've gotten this far in reading back and I don't see a single poster suggesting anything other than the parent who designed the fraud should be held responsible, if in fact there's even been a statement from Jordan. I and everyone else are still waiting for corroboration in the MSM and the exact statement Jordan made in full.

I'm sorry if you're feeling guilty for your assumption which were never even taken to a court room, but it doesn't justify making yet more unfounded accusations here.

I value my membership here, so I will not go back and quote each one. I have read here during the last few days since the news broke, I have read this boys name mentioned many times. That is my point, he was never on trial.

LOL...no need to feel sorry for me. I believe MJ will face his true maker and you and I can not protect him from that fate.

JMO

[Cardinal]

I feel very sorry for the man. What a tragical sorry. Most tragic is that children -- inferior to adults -- are instructed to lie.
:rose:

It was heartbreaking for everyone who knew them, and it took them a long time to get past it. Fortunately, their love and trust in each other got them through it.

But children ARE told to lie by a parent in some cases. The parent's selfish agenda seems to outweigh anything else. And that is what I see in MJ's case.

[Cardinal]

I wouldn't blame the people around MJ the were paid to do as he says and if you didn't you were fired.

Where did I blame anyone? I said it was a shame there was no one to help him.

[MoonHarvest]

True. To defend a practice he couldn't stop, even when it cost him millions and even when he risked prison, he said he'd let his own children sleep with someone accused of child molestation. His only caveat: "If I know the person." Yeah, most of the time parents know the person who molested their children.

What parent here would want someone their child idolized to suggest sleeping in beds with adults is normal. That's something that could put a child at risk. A pedophile could use that to lure a child. "Michael Jackson said this is the most loving thing...." It's sick. He was so selfish he didn't even think of the possible repercussions.

I am unwilling to violate the copyright rules here to post what he said, but thankfully, posters like Athena keep doing it for me. They do it to dispute my claims, but they only prove them.

imo

Between posts like yours and Athena's and all that I have read: is why I remain ambivalent and just stopped taking any interest in Mike Jackson at all. I do regardless of all else feel very very sad for those children. It's always the children who suffer.

[SDMermaid]

I want to see Jordan on tv and the words coming out of his mouth.This story is just hearsay and it was never proven that Jordan said he wasn't molested. The Global Grind sounds like a tabloid magazine.


HOLY SH** - Is this true?

Jordan Chandler Admits MJ Did Not Molest Him

According to the Global Grind Jordan Chandler admits he lied on Michael for his father. They were invited into Michael’s home during hard times. The statement goes as followers;” I never meant to lie and destroy Michael Jackson but my father made me to tell only lies. Now I can’t tell Michael how much I’m sorry and if he will forgive me”.

http://frankpaulgambino.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/jordan-chandler-admits-was-not-molested-by-mjj-in-1993/

[Lyvia]

Athena, did you ever find a link to support your claim that the Terry George story was debunked? I've Googled and can't find it. You might be mistaken, but it would be nice to know for sure.

[R~O~S]

I value my membership here, so I will not go back and quote each one. I have read here during the last few days since the news broke, I have read this boys name mentioned many times. That is my point, he was never on trial.

LOL...no need to feel sorry for me. I believe MJ will face his true maker and you and I can not protect him from that fate.

JMO

Hello!!! Mentioning the name does not make for an accusation or attack of any kind. Back up what you've said, or put a sock in it.

I've read every post on this forum and not one person has demonized or attacked the children or any child. That's a clear statement and I stand by it. Your accusation is unfounded.

But your back peddling from accusations of attack to now it's just a sin to mention the name is telling.

[SDMermaid]

Look at the date Jordan supposely said this in 1993 but was never proven he really said it.




Athena!!! I was expecting it, I was expecting it! After his death -- when it will be too late -- he will tell the truth!!!

OMG, OMG!!!

[Cardinal]

Michael grew up in a relatively small house with 8 siblings, his mother and dad. I suspect there were some sleeping arrangements in that household - especially if visitors came - that some would question.

I remember Elvis' step-mother Dee making a comment on Phil Donahue that there was just something "not right" between Elvis and his mother - horror of horrors - "he lay on the bed with his mother." JD Sumner cut her off at the knees.

I suspect you're right. And I suspect that influenced his idea of what was normal.

[MoonHarvest]

I used to lie down sometimes and nap with my Grandma. Or when my Grandpa went to work late we would fall asleep together. I may have been 17. Believe you me: there was NOTHING funny about my Gran or me. We simply had a very strong and happy grandmother/ granddaughter relationship.

[R~O~S]

Look at the date Jordan supposely said this in 1993 but was never proven he really said it.


Ummm, no. He said he was never molested in 1993 & he supposedly made the statement after Micheal's death.

http://frankpaulgambino.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/jordan-chandler-admits-was-not-molested-by-mjj-in-1993/

& we're all still waiting for a reliable confirmation.

Unless you're talking about something else, a different statement.

[SDMermaid]

Only MJ fans would believe this just because someone printed on their blog that Jordan said he wasn't molested. Wait until he is interviewed exclusively by a real source like People Magazine before you starting saying I knew he wasn't a child molester.


I have Never believed that Michael was a child molester. RIP

[Cardinal]

I used to lie down sometimes and nap with my Grandma. Or when my Grandpa went to work late we would fall asleep together. I may have been 17. Believe you me: there was NOTHING funny about my Gran or me. We simply had a very strong and happy grandmother/ granddaughter relationship.

When I visited my grandmother's house in the summers, I shared a bed with my 2 aunts who were still living at home. Not only was there nothing funny about it, I felt very loved and protected.

[aproudmom]

When you get a chance, please read this:

http://surftofind.com/seminal1

thanks for the link had not seen that before...

[SDMermaid]

The Global Grind is just a blog who knows if the story is true:confused:


Here is the article from the global grind:
http://globalgrind.com/content/778859/JORDAN-CHANDLER-MJ-DID-NOT-MOLEST-ME-I-LIED/

[MoonHarvest]

When I visited my grandmother's house in the summers, I shared a bed with my 2 aunts who were still living at home. Not only was there nothing funny about it, I felt very loved and protected.



Me too.:thumbsup::wub:

[Cardinal]

Only MJ fans would believe this just because someone printed on their blog that Jordan said he wasn't molested. Wait until he is interviewed exclusively by a real source like People Magazine before you starting saying I knew he wasn't a child molester.

IIRC, everyone here said exactly the same thing. RIF

[Lyvia]

It's already on the board and I made that statement AFTER it was posted so feel free to search.

I've done a search of the forums, too (meaning searching within threads). I don't see it even after a long search. I'm guessing it was more of the same rumor and opinion until I find otherwise (and I have looked).

[Lyvia]

IIRC, everyone here said exactly the same thing. RIF

Note everyone, lol. There were a few "OMG I KNEW IT" posts. But not many, which is encouraging.

[Cardinal]

Me too.:thumbsup::wub:

I guess if people never had that kind of experience, it would be difficult for them to imagine the normalcy of it.

[Cardinal]

I so agree with that underlined and bolded by me...and that is why I let it go and have no heart in arguing about his courtcase, or all the accusations...IF or IF NOT true..the real truth will be addressed in a much higher court...but, now that Michael has left behind is one big mess..his true personal identity will be bantied about for years!!...BUT his contributions to the Music Industry will indeed be recognized for what it is...Fantastic..but to dwell on all his negatives and fight amongst each other..is to me ony an exercise in frustrations..

His legacy..that is his music will live on forever..and even people who hated his behaviors..can still appreciate his music and talent...to me they should NOT BE equated...Many past shining stars had "Dark Sides"..but what won out..was their Good Contributions..

LMS

Well said. TY

[R~O~S]

When I visited my grandmother's house in the summers, I shared a bed with my 2 aunts who were still living at home. Not only was there nothing funny about it, I felt very loved and protected.

Oh for Gawd Sakes, the "family bed" was all the rage in the '60's & there was nothing funny about it other than an intention to build a strong loving family bond.

http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/family_bed.html

http://www.bygpub.com/natural/family-bed.htm

http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/familybed.html

& apparently it hasn't gone completely out of style.

How hung up are we as a society that the image of a bed brings on only visions of sexuality?

How stupid are we that the masses believe sexual assault would require a bed?

Last time I checked, there aren't many rape victims that describe a bed in the assault description, back alleys and dark streets yes, a bed, no.

[SDMermaid]

That pic with MJ and that kid holding hands like they are in love is just weird. I don't sit on the couch and cuddle and hold hands with my friend's kids I do that with my husband.


then we have this.........
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/381252/Jordy-Chandlers-secret-diary-of-sex-abuse-with-Michael-Jackson.html

[MoonHarvest]

I guess if people never had that kind of experience, it would be difficult for them to imagine the normalcy of it.

That's too bad, really.

It was grand. My grandparents left me with super memories for a lifetime. An old-fashioned/Old-world/European way of life.

[Cardinal]

Oh for Gawd Sakes, the "family bed" was all the rage in the '60's & there was nothing funny about it other than an intention to build a strong loving family bond.

http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/family_bed.html

http://www.bygpub.com/natural/family-bed.htm

http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/familybed.html

& apparently it hasn't gone completely out of style.

How hung up are we as a society that the image of a bed brings on only visions of sexuality?

How stupid are we that the masses believe sexual assault would require a bed?

Last time I checked, there aren't many rape victims that describe a bed in the assault description, back alleys and dark streets yes, a bed, no.

And another well said!

[magnolia]

I think you just hit on it. It's confusing and uncomfortable, because it isn't done any more. It isn't done any more because of the heightened awareness about sexual molestation and because it isn't necessary.

But my grandmother had 7 children and 6 brothers living in her house. There were 5 beds. And yes, the younger boys slept with her brothers. In those days, no one thought anything about it.
This is totally different than an adult man sleeping with a non-relative boy.

[Cardinal]

That's too bad, really.

It was grand. My grandparents left me with super memories for a lifetime. An old-fashioned/Old-world/European way of life.

As did mine. Memories that I cherish! I think children would be much better adjusted if they had those same experiences.

Oh boy, now I'm probably going to be accused of wanting to sleep with children. LOL

[Lyvia]

Post# 634 was the latest.

LOL, you didn't read the page linked to, did you? I've read it before. Terry George was upset with the story the Sun ran, but he doesn't deny the inappropriate phone content. He's always stuck by that. He just had a problem with how the media handled the story. That's not debunking anything.

On this page (http://terrygeorge.co.uk/home/?topic=837), he quotes a news story in which he says Jackson did make "lewd" comments to him when he was 13. He's stuck by that. His issue wasn't with the Examiner story. It was with the Sun's.

[Cardinal]

[/B]
This is totally different than an adult man sleeping with a non-relative boy.

Is it only innocent if they share a bloodline?

[MoonHarvest]

[/B]
This is totally different than an adult man sleeping with a non-relative boy.

Was it? :shrug: I just don't know.

[MoonHarvest]

Is it only innocent if they share a bloodline?

No, in my O.

[aproudmom]

Only MJ fans would believe this just because someone printed on their blog that Jordan said he wasn't molested. Wait until he is interviewed exclusively by a real source like People Magazine before you starting saying I knew he wasn't a child molester.

I do not think anyone is saying it has been confirmed and just giving their opinions and that is what this forum is here for IIRC..o and BTW I was never a huge fan..

[SDMermaid]

I knew it was a hoax until Jordy comes out to a real reporter and claims he wasn't molested. Only MJ fans would be all over it and believe it just because some blog printed it.



I am looking and it is everywhere..
http://current.com/items/90292625_jordan-chandler-admits-he-lied-about-michael-jackson.htm

http://www.topix.com/news/gay/2009/06/hersband-wife-blog-blog-archive-jordan-chandler-admits-he-lied-about-michael-jackson

http://trashselector.com/evan-chandler-i-lied-for-my-father-im-sorry-michael/

Jordan Chandler Hoax
http://blog.vpjayant.com/?p=21

[magnolia]

Was it? :shrug: I just don't know.
Yes, it is different.

[MoonHarvest]

Our collective psyches have been damaged by too many perverts in the news.:mad:

[R~O~S]

We are probably one of the few countries who believe sharing a bed with a child is not normal although I can understand why. I wish I could find a pic of that bed. It is not what we consider a bed either - it was HUGE !!!! and his bedroom was two stories - larger than some people's apartments and was shown during the trial.


I was thinking the same thing Athena. I have a co-worker who immigrated here from Viet Nam, our society has managed to make him embarrassed for the way he was raised. As is perfectly normal, the entire family including grandparents all live in the same two room dwelling and they all sleep in the same room.

We've become so pampered and so wealthy we've come to believe there's something "wrong" with the way the majority of the world lives every day.

A separate room & bed for every family member is not the norm around the globe, only in the more affluent nations and we have our share of homeless and impoverished that live with a lot less comfort than this nose in the air attitude would allow us to admit.

[magnolia]

What about an adult female sleeping with a non-relative girl?

I knew this was coming, lol. I typed man and boy b/c MJ and Jordy (and others) are being discussed.

For the most part, adults should not be sleeping with children (family excluded).

[SDMermaid]

I wonder what she is talking about...all the drugs he took?:confused:

Was this discussed before? If so I am sorry for bringing it up again

In a interesting new twist, actress Liza Minnelli reveals "all hell's going to break loose" when Michael Jackson's autopsy results are in. During a segment on The Early Show, Minnelli reflected on her long friendship with the 'Thriller' singer, adding that his autopsy results will change everything. "All those who knew him well really know what he was like... So thank God we're celebrating him now," she said.

http://www.popeater.com/music/article/liza-discusses-michael-jacksons-autopsy/545454

[magnolia]

Is it only innocent if they share a bloodline?

It may or may not be innocent if they share a bloodline, but it's not a good idea for adults to be sleeping with children (unless they are family).

[Lyvia]

I knew this was coming, lol. I typed man and boy b/c MJ and Jordy (and others) are being discussed.

For the most part, adults should not be sleeping with children (family excluded).

And we shouldn't teach children to do so as Michael Jackson did. A lot of children heard him say it was the most loving thing to do. He didn't say "check with your parents first" or "If an adult tries to get you in bed without your parents' permission run." No, he said it's loving, wonderful, everyone should do it. A pedophile could use that to lure a child. Someone thinking of children before himself would never be so careless. imo

[Cardinal]

Our collective psyches have been damaged by too many perverts in the news.:mad:

Sad isn't it? On the one hand, I'm glad that victims of abuse now feel empowered to come forward and seek justice.

OTOH, I think we see a boogeyman behind every door.

[magnolia]

And we shouldn't teach children to do so as Michael Jackson did. A lot of children heard him say it was the most loving thing to do. He didn't say "check with your parents first" or "If an adult tries to get you in bed without your parents' permission run." No, he said it's loving, wonderful, everyone should do it. A pedophile could use that to lure a child. Someone thinking of children before himself would never be so careless. imo

:thumbsup:I agree and caring adults need to be more viligent and careful.

[Cardinal]

It may or may not be innocent if they share a bloodline, but it's not a good idea for adults to be sleeping with children (unless they are family).

Why not? That's a sincere question, btw. Why do you think that?

[R~O~S]

I knew it was a hoax until Jordy comes out to a real reporter and claims he wasn't molested. Only MJ fans would be all over it and believe it just because some blog printed it.


So you've said multiple times and been made aware we've all said the same thing. Until it's confirmed by a main stream outlet and we see the full text of the statement, it's rumor. Is there a point to repeating it over and over?

Does it somehow boost your ego to make false allegations regarding what's been posted here?

[MoonHarvest]

Sad isn't it? On the one hand, I'm glad that victims of abuse now feel empowered to come forward and seek justice.

OTOH, I think we see a boogeyman behind every door.

It's very sad Cardinal. It's also very sad if Mike Jackson really did not abuse children and was accused. Don't know what to think.

Gotta go , it's my Dad's B-day and we are taking him to dinner. Will check back here later.

[SDMermaid]

ITA you just have to look at the way the guy spends his money and what he did to his body and know that he was out of control and that's why I bet his family isn't that shocked he is dead it was only a matter of time before everything around him would come to an end.


Yes, 4Life..Liza's comments were brought up..and yes I have said it over and over again, people who had been close to Michael really know the truth of his personal life, his strengths and his frailities..and would venture a guess, most tried to intervene..obviously to no avail!!

I even heard Donald Trump comment about trying to challenge Michael to Stop the Drugs..stop the madness..which of course was not listened to either...

Drugs do terrible things to nice people..common sense, reality and good judgement all fall by the wayside..all to feed the addiction..So sad really!!

Some will never believe that their idol Michael was anything less than perfect..and no one will ever change that perception...People only accept what they want to see or..and that is their choice...i have my own reasons for looking beyond the gloss paint job ..as I have seen many times underneath that "Mop and Glow" many in this world try and portray to the public..Again..Sad...but too true in real life..

LMS:sad:

[Cardinal]

It's very sad Cardinal. It's also very sad if Mike Jackson really did not abuse children and was accused. Don't know what to think.

Gotta go , it's my Dad's B-day and we are taking him to dinner. Will check back here later.

Maybe the truth will eventually be confirmed. Whatever the truth is.

:seeya: Happy Bday to your Dad!

[Cardinal]

ITA you just have to look at the way the guy spends his money and what he did to his body and know that he was out of control and that's why I bet his family isn't that shocked he is dead it was only a matter of time before everything around him would come to an end.

And that appears to please you........why?

[MoonHarvest]

Maybe the truth will eventually be confirmed. Whatever the truth is.

:seeya: Happy Bday to your Dad!

I sure hope so. For his children's sake, and for his legacy..and especially if he was innocent.

Bye-bye and Thanks.

[SDMermaid]

I blame MJ for putting himself in that position and I blame the parents for allowing their kids to do it just because he was MJ.


That's why I always blamed the parents more than I did MJ.

[SDMermaid]

My own uncle that was suppose to be very religious molested his own daughter until she was 17! And her mother never believed her.


Michael Jackson would. He said so himself. Even someone accused of child molestation. He said he'd have to know them personally, but he said nothing about how well or how long. What a terrible thing to say. You could know someone for years and think you know them and not realize what they're capable of. Most of us wouldn't take such a chance with a child.

If you think parents who let their kids sleep with him are bad parents, you have to believe he was, too. Since he said he'd do just what they did. imo

[Cardinal]

My own uncle that was suppose to be very religious molested his own daughter until she was 17! And her mother never believed her.

Aaaah, now it's clearer.

[magnolia]

Why not? That's a sincere question, btw. Why do you think that?

Because it's stupid and I'm not stupid. :)

[SDMermaid]

Like a sex change? I wouldn't be surprised it looked like he was turning into a woman the way his face looked.


Maybe it wasn't just his face he had redone, maybe he had an enire body makeover, if you get my drift.
And it just me speculating..and JMO .

[aproudmom]

BET AWARDS 2009 RED CARPET just came on..

[who_is_it]

And the poster you are referring to reacted with emotion and in her next post said she believed it was a hoax and was the one who suggested we contact TMZ which is exactly what I did and posted my email from them confirming receipt. There is not one person here that I'm aware of that believes it.

Thank you for summarizing it.

[Cardinal]

Excellent post.

Maybe not just the pampered and wealthy who think this way, but some (perhaps) who have been exposed to unpleasant experiences in their own families/relationships. MO

I think we've just witnessed that, actually.

[magnolia]

I was thinking the same thing Athena. I have a co-worker who immigrated here from Viet Nam, our society has managed to make him embarrassed for the way he was raised. As is perfectly normal, the entire family including grandparents all live in the same two room dwelling and they all sleep in the same room.

We've become so pampered and so wealthy we've come to believe there's something "wrong" with the way the majority of the world lives every day.

A separate room & bed for every family member is not the norm around the globe, only in the more affluent nations and we have our share of homeless and impoverished that live with a lot less comfort than this nose in the air attitude would allow us to admit.
Families sleeping together - no big deal.

[Cardinal]

Because it's stupid and I'm not stupid. :)

No, you're not stupid. But why do you think that's stupid?

[magnolia]

I think we've just witnessed that, actually.

Where?????

[Lyvia]

My own uncle that was suppose to be very religious molested his own daughter until she was 17! And her mother never believed her.

I am sorry to hear that. It's just heartbreaking.

This doesn't apply to your niece or post, but I am going to try to clarify something I said earlier.

I think we all care about children. I think we all want them to be safe. And it isn't safe to tell a child that it's beautiful and normal and loving for adults and children to sleep in the same bed. At least not unless you add some qualifiers, like it Mommy and Daddy know and give permission." Michael Jackson didn't do that. Kids idolize him and kids saw those interviews. And everything he said in all those interviews about adults sleeping with kids could have led a child to believe it was just fine for some friend of the family to climb into bed, or to get into some adult's bed because it's so loving.

Children are already at risk for predators. I just hate that Michael Jackson, to defend his hobby, spoke words that could make them less safe. imo

[who_is_it]

It was heartbreaking for everyone who knew them, and it took them a long time to get past it. Fortunately, their love and trust in each other got them through it.

But children ARE told to lie by a parent in some cases. The parent's selfish agenda seems to outweigh anything else. And that is what I see in MJ's case.

The problem of wrong allegations in general is that the falsely accused people are afraid it gets public (by public I mean a circle of friends, at work etc.) and don't fight them aggressively at the very beginning.

If Michael Jackson immediately initiated a police report for false allegations it would have never gone as far imo.

Furthermore I wonder why many US celebrities don't sue media outlets for false stories and why some don't get restraining orders against the paparazzi.

[Cardinal]

I am sorry to hear that. It's just heartbreaking.

This doesn't apply to your niece or post, but I am going to try to clarify something I said earlier.

I think we all care about children. I think we all want them to be safe. And it isn't safe to tell a child that it's beautiful and normal and loving for adults and children to sleep in the same bed. At least not unless you add some qualifiers, like it Mommy and Daddy know and give permission." Michael Jackson didn't do that. Kids idolize him and kids saw those interviews. And everything he said in all those interviews about adults sleeping with kids could have led a child to believe it was just fine for some friend of the family to climb into bed, or to get into some adult's bed because it's so loving.

Children are already at risk for predators. I just hate that Michael Jackson, to defend his hobby, spoke words that could make them less safe. imo

I agree, children are at risk for predators, and they deserve to be protected. And I agree that his words could be misinterpreted and lead to harm. But that doesn't make him a predator.

[aproudmom]

Like a sex change? I wouldn't be surprised it looked like he was turning into a woman the way his face looked.

OFGS your joking right??:rolleyes: never mind no need to even address that to me that is no ones business and last times I checked IT IS NOT A CRIME..I do not think we will find out Michael was actually a Michelle now

[kellabeck]

Perhaps I've missed the post, but I am still waiting for someone to tell me why an innocent man who just enjoyed harmless sleepovers with little boys would not stop this behavior after public humiliation, the threat of prosecution and possible prison time, the payout in tens of millions, and the destruction of his reputation and career, after all that, the man continued to indulge his predilection to have pajama parties with little boys.

WHY NOT JUST STOP??

[Cardinal]

The problem of wrong allegations in general is that the falsely accused people are afraid it gets public (by public I mean a circle of friends, at work etc.) and don't fight them aggressively at the very beginning.

If Michael Jackson immediately initiated a police report for false allegations it would have never gone as far imo.

Furthermore I wonder why many US celebrities don't sue media outlets for false stories and why some don't get restraining orders against the paparazzi.

I think he couldn't believe anyone would want to hurt him like that. I think if there's anything we've learned about MJ, it's that he was very naive.

As to your other point, haven't you noticed - the media rules here. Lawsuits and/or restraining orders just result in freedom of the press cries and more negative publicity. MO, of course.

[Cardinal]

OFGS your joking right??:rolleyes: never mind no need to even address that to me that is no ones business and last times I checked IT IS NOT A CRIME..I do not think we will find out Michael was actually a Michelle now

ROTFL :laugh:

[mrsmcgoo]

I blame MJ for putting himself in that position and I blame the parents for allowing their kids to do it just because he was MJ.

Exactly! :thumbsup:

[who_is_it]

I think he couldn't believe anyone would want to hurt him like that. I think if there's anything we've learned about MY, it's that he was very naive.

As to your other point, haven't you noticed - the media rules here. Lawsuits and/or restraining orders just result in freedom of the press cries and more negative publicity. MO, of course.

I'm German. I just often wondered why celebrities don't try to get restraining orders. What the paparazzi do is sometimes stalking imo. They also don't hesitate to jump onto private properties.

TMZ is the most accurate blogger... but nevertheless I'm no fan. Recently there was a video of Lindsay Lohan posted which should make her look like a fool who desperately knocked at Samantha's door. The truth was that the original video was edited, parts were cut out. They cut out a conversation with the paparazzi. She was furious about the paparazzi and THEREFORE desperate to get into her friend's house a.s.a.p.

[magnolia]

No, you're not stupid. But why do you think that's stupid?

Children need to be protected and taught how to take care of themselves and their bodies. Sleeping together is intimate (not talking about sex) and very casual. Children need their personal space and need to be taught to have boundaries.

For the most part, a non-relative adult does not need to invited children to sleep in their bed.

And as another poster stated, children need to check with their parents before sleeping in an adult's bed. My child better not crawl into an adult's bed without me knowing. :)

[True2Blues]

Perhaps I've missed the post, but I am still waiting for someone to tell me why an innocent man who just enjoyed harmless sleepovers with little boys would not stop this behavior after public humiliation, the threat of prosecution and possible prison time, the payout in tens of millions, and the destruction of his reputation and career, after all that, the man continued to indulge his predilection to have pajama parties with little boys.

WHY NOT JUST STOP??

A sense of entitlement and a predatory urge.

[magnolia]

Perhaps I've missed the post, but I am still waiting for someone to tell me why an innocent man who just enjoyed harmless sleepovers with little boys would not stop this behavior after public humiliation, the threat of prosecution and possible prison time, the payout in tens of millions, and the destruction of his reputation and career, after all that, the man continued to indulge his predilection to have pajama parties with little boys.

WHY NOT JUST STOP??

You might want to catch some zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's while waiting.

Good question...:)

[mrsmcgoo]

Is Grace the Nanny a reliable source? :confused:

[who_is_it]

Michael Jackson: The least weird man Elizabeth Taylor ever knew

Most of Michael Jackson's closest friends had also been child stars

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jun/26/michael-jackson-family-friends

[Cardinal]

Children need to be protected and taught how to take care of themselves and their bodies. Sleeping together is intimate (not talking about sex) and very casual. Children need their personal space and need to be taught to have boundaries.

For the most part, a non-relative adult does not need to invited children to sleep in their bed.

And as another poster stated, children need to check with their parents before sleeping in an adult's bed. My child better not crawl into an adult's bed without me knowing. :)

TY for the response. And I agree, children need to be protected and taught to protect themselves.

And that is the role of their parent(s). And in MJ's case, the parent(s) knew exactly where they were and who they were with. If they had no reason to be concerned before Chandler, they certainly did after, if the allegations are true. So who's to blame for the children after Chandler?

And kellabeck, if it were, as I believe, innocent, and if, as is obvious, the parent(s) permitted it, what was to stop?

[Lyvia]

I agree, children are at risk for predators, and they deserve to be protected. And I agree that his words could be misinterpreted and lead to harm. But that doesn't make him a predator.
No, but he was. imo.

And it's a good indicator of how he thinks of children. He was defending his compulsion (or habit, if you like), so he preached something potentially harmful to children. It was selfish. He wasn't thinking of children when he said it. He was thinking of himself and how best to defend himself so he could rehab his image and keep bringing children into his bed. It's what a predator would do.

imo

[Lyvia]

TY for the response. And I agree, children need to be protected and taught to protect themselves.

And that is the role of their parent(s).<snip>
And someone who knows that parents aren't always protectors (his own) and that children look up to him would never have said what he did. Not if he loved children, really loved them selflessly.

imo

[magnolia]

TY for the response. And I agree, children need to be protected and taught to protect themselves.

And that is the role of their parent(s). And in MJ's case, the parent(s) knew exactly where they were and who they were with. If they had no reason to be concerned before Chandler, they certainly did after, if the allegations are true. So who's to blame for the children after Chandler?

And kellabeck, if it were, as I believe, innocent, and if, as is obvious, the parent(s) permitted it, what was to stop?
I blame both the parents and MJ.

[aproudmom]

I agree, children are at risk for predators, and they deserve to be protected. And I agree that his words could be misinterpreted and lead to harm. But that doesn't make him a predator.

look what people ME INCLUDED need to do is not label people who have been found NG of a crime such as this..yes he paid off someone years ago happens alot maybe not the same situations but it is easier for the stars to just pay and hope it goes away..MJ to me was odd and would I have allowed my 2 boys in his bed He** NO...but I also would not allow my ex to sleep in the nude and alot thought that was odd but I felt the kids did not need to walk in an see daddy hanging out:biggrin:

[Cardinal]

No, but he was. imo.

And it's a good indicator of how he thinks of children. He was defending his compulsion (or habit, if you like), so he preached something potentially harmful to children. It was selfish. He wasn't thinking of children when he said it. He was thinking of himself and how best to defend himself so he could rehab his image and keep bringing children into his bed. It's what a predator would do.

imo

Yes, it's what a predator would do. But it's also, imo, what an innocent, who lived in alternate reality for years, would do.

And to respond to your subsequent post, I'm not saying MJ's love was selfless. On the contrary, I think it was selfish. He needed the kind of unconditional love only children can offer, imo. But I think that's all it was.

[Cardinal]

This is when he made the announcement of his concerts in London. Take a look at this guy .......this is NOT MJ. No way no way !!!!! jmo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjjOEVCj6xs

And I saw Elvis at the WalMart today. :rolleyes:

[mrsmcgoo]

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article6591123.ece

It is stated in this article that Katherine asks Grace where the money is. Today it showed Katherine leaving in a car, does anyone know if she was leaving her own home or where MJ was staying?

[4Life]

This is when he made the announcement of his concerts in London. Take a look at this guy .......this is NOT MJ. No way no way !!!!! jmo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjjOEVCj6xs

Same features,same voice, same nose, same "mark" on the left side of his nose...looks like MJ to me

LOl next week there will be reports the MJ was seen in Pizza Hut

[aproudmom]

This is when he made the announcement of his concerts in London. Take a look at this guy .......this is NOT MJ. No way no way !!!!! jmo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjjOEVCj6xs

what that was just in MARCH

[Lyvia]

Yes, it's what a predator would do. But it's also, imo, what an innocent, who lived in alternate reality for years, would do.

And to respond to your subsequent post, I'm not saying MJ's love was selfless. On the contrary, I think it was selfish. He needed the kind of unconditional love only children can offer, imo. But I think that's all it was.

Well, there's some common ground, lol.

[CinderL.]

OFGS your joking right??:rolleyes: never mind no need to even address that to me that is no ones business and last times I checked IT IS NOT A CRIME..I do not think we will find out Michael was actually a Michelle now

I'm telling ya...........

Neverland Ranch Investigators Discover Corpse Of Real Michael Jackson

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30940

:laugh::laugh:

[aproudmom]

Same features,same voice, same nose...looks like MJ to me

LOl next week there will be reports the MJ was seen in Pizza Hut

I watched this live stream in March when he made the announcement I remember cause it took him 2 hours to get off the darn bus..lol..

[Cardinal]

Well, there's some common ground, lol.

Hey, I knew we'd find some eventually. :D

[4Life]

I watched this live stream in March when he made the announcement I remember cause it took him 2 hours to get off the darn bus..lol..

I saw it too. Yup that was MJ

[CinderL.]

-----------------

Yep.......i read that. really laughable. but i think there is some strange things going on with this whole thing. jmo

His whole life was strange. I think it will end up to be another Anna N. Smith.

[4Life]

----------------

Its not his mannerisms. jmo

It is very much his mannerisms