6/27 -- #4

[aproudmom]

I saw it was well over the 1000 post hope I did this right been awhile...

[shiloh2000]

So what did the coroner have to say? I missed it.

[kellabeck]

Good morning!

Anybody else curious about who it was on the 911 call? Very polite, fairly calm. Knew all the answers-- address including zip code, which was interesting. Who was that?

[aproudmom]

Good morning!

Anybody else curious about who it was on the 911 call? Very polite, fairly calm. Knew all the answers-- address including zip code, which was interesting. Who was that?

I think it will be a employee or a bodyguard

[VC2]

I posted this on other thread, bringing it over:

it wasn't until the article yesterday that i realized how severe the burns were and that he had no hair so had to wear wigs. Also there was lots of facial scarring (and most plastic surgeons manage to hide the scars don't they?), could some of that come from the burns? Added to the fact he injured his back and imo had chronic back pain...well i guess i understand an addiction to pain killers..sighs. I can definitely see how he felt he was unattractive and started on the plastic surgeries to make himself feel better emotionally, what a tragedy that he felt that way.

I feel badly about thinking it was strange he always wore makeup to the extent that he did and wondering at his hair. Sounds like it was necessary for going out in public

[Myka]

I posted this on other thread, bringing it over:

it wasn't until the article yesterday that i realized how severe the burns were and that he had no hair so had to wear wigs. Also there was lots of facial scarring (and most plastic surgeons manage to hide the scars don't they?), could some of that come from the burns? Added to the fact he injured his back and imo had chronic back pain...well i guess i understand an addiction to pain killers..sighs. I can definitely see how he felt he was unattractive and started on the plastic surgeries to make himself feel better emotionally, what a tragedy that he felt that way.

I feel badly about thinking it was strange he always wore makeup to the extent that he did and wondering at his hair. Sounds like it was necessary for going out in public

I too was thinking about all the plastic surgeries, and how many pain killers he took after each operation? We know he had a ton of "work" done, thus he would be in alot of pain.....

also, somewhere along the line in his life, he broke his leg...more pain killers


I am hoping this doesn't end up like the ANS case, like poor Anna, MJ had alot of "yes men" around him, feeding him drugs and everyone making a buck off of him.

[Myka]

Good morning!

Anybody else curious about who it was on the 911 call? Very polite, fairly calm. Knew all the answers-- address including zip code, which was interesting. Who was that?

I agree, one of the calmest 911 calls I've ever heard

[Cardinal]

I think it will be a employee or a bodyguard

I think so, too. He ended nearly every sentence with "sir" - ex-military, maybe?

[VC2]

if the AP report is true and there was evidence of a heart attack (which actually makes sense to me, i had to agree with the doctor on JVM last night that it was probably more likely since he was in the right age group for sudden heart attacks that kill thousands a year) then i hope that LAPD take off the security hold on the findings at autopsy quickly. For the families sake including his kids. They are more than old enough to be following what is said and if he had an addiction to pain killers but it did not cause his death then i think its unfair to have the hold on the findings. The family might know but its still unfair to have the media only talk about the fact he was prescribed an anti depressant and painkiller as if he was loaded to the gills. Which doesn't make much sense either bc no way MJ did 6 hours of rehearsals dancing and singing if he was loaded with narcotics. I am sure he had whatever his tolerance dose was but that is different.

What was said by the coroners spokesman yesterday was very little..he told us he could say almost nothing except no trauma on external viewing and testing is taking place thanks to LE's security hold.

IMO

[who_is_it]

@ aproudmum, post on thread #3

Perez Hilton is a vile person imo. Once Avril Lavigne wrote him a letter she feels hurt by his words about her on his blog. He published the personal letter and poked fun at her emotional reaction.

--------
Since ever Michael suffered from complexes about his looks.

"Michael explained that his face was so covered with acne and his nose so large at that time that visitors to the family home in Encino sometimes wouldn't recognize him. "They would come up, look me straight in the eye and ask if I knew where that 'cute little Michael' was." It was as if the "whole world was saying, 'How dare you grow up on us.' "

Michael said he started looking down at the floor when people approached or would stay in his room when visitors came to the house.

Michael vowed to do whatever it took to make people "love me again." The rejection fueled his ambition to be the biggest pop star in the world and to try to make his face beautiful."

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-me-jackson-hilburn27-2009jun27,0,4897003.story

He entrusted his feelings to Bashir in a similar way. Bashir stabbed him a knife in his back. It must have been so disappointing to entrust your sore point and then find out he uses it to make you a fool. I still hate Bashir for his lack of empathy and exploitation of his honesty, directed on sensation only.

[who_is_it]

I posted this on other thread, bringing it over:

it wasn't until the article yesterday that i realized how severe the burns were and that he had no hair so had to wear wigs. Also there was lots of facial scarring (and most plastic surgeons manage to hide the scars don't they?), could some of that come from the burns? Added to the fact he injured his back and imo had chronic back pain...well i guess i understand an addiction to pain killers..sighs. I can definitely see how he felt he was unattractive and started on the plastic surgeries to make himself feel better emotionally, what a tragedy that he felt that way.

I feel badly about thinking it was strange he always wore makeup to the extent that he did and wondering at his hair. Sounds like it was necessary for going out in public

I think it could be that he had to wear make-up all time.

Based on what I posted just now about his complexes about the injuries probably caused an additional psychological problem for him.

[aproudmom]

I posted this on other thread, bringing it over:

it wasn't until the article yesterday that i realized how severe the burns were and that he had no hair so had to wear wigs. Also there was lots of facial scarring (and most plastic surgeons manage to hide the scars don't they?), could some of that come from the burns? Added to the fact he injured his back and imo had chronic back pain...well i guess i understand an addiction to pain killers..sighs. I can definitely see how he felt he was unattractive and started on the plastic surgeries to make himself feel better emotionally, what a tragedy that he felt that way.

I feel badly about thinking it was strange he always wore makeup to the extent that he did and wondering at his hair. Sounds like it was necessary for going out in public

I know I never knew it was that bad either and they said that is when he was in so much pain and started taking pain killers..

[aproudmom]

I think it could be that he had to wear make-up all time.

Based on what I posted just now about his complexes about the injuries probably caused an additional psychological problem for him.

I keep reading he had some sort of genetic disorder or something does anyone know if he had a disease I think one link said he would need a kidney or liver or something but the autopsy would have show that right??

[aproudmom]

Did Michael Jackson die from 2 auto-immune diseases and prescription drugs?

Earlier today, Deepak Chopra spoke on CNN and described how Michael Jackson suffered from two autoimmune diseases: lupus and vitiligo.
http://www.examiner.com/x-2696-Sacramento-Arts--Entertainment-Examiner~y2009m6d26-Did-Michael-Jackson-die-from-2-autoimmune-diseases-and-prescription-drugs

[VC2]

btw here are the two articles about the burn and scars from the other thread:
http://sify.com/movies/fullstory.php?id=14896597
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529226,00.html

[aproudmom]

never mind found it..just realised his B-day is the same as mine 8/29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson

Michael Jackson was diagnosed in 1986 with vitiligo and lupus; the latter is potentially lethal but was in remission in Jackson's case.[12] In a 90-minute interview with Oprah Winfrey in February 1993, Jackson dismissed suggestions that he bleached his skin, admitting for the first time that he had the illness. The admission went on to promote a public debate on the topic of vitiligo, a relatively unknown condition before then

[who_is_it]

"It's the ultimate irony -- Michael Jackson's death could make his struggling estate flush with cash."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/27/michaels-estate-may-turn-around/

I think there will be tons of new songs released. I've read Michael held them all back in fear the audience wouldn't like them.

[aproudmom]

oh he had leeches galore around him :(

btw here are the two articles about the burn and scars from the other thread:
http://sify.com/movies/fullstory.php?id=14896597
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529226,00.html

yep sure looks that way doesn't it...I hate to say it but this happens all the time my sons friend had a baby well she tore pretty bad they put her on some pain medication and now she is addicted to it and buys it since the doctor stopped giving it to her..maybe they should think some may become addicted and way the good and bad..she has a 1yr old so we are going to keep the baby while she gets help..it is so easy to get addicted to these drugs..

[aproudmom]

http://www.michaeljackson.com/

Remembering Michael Jackson. Share your memory

[n/t]

yep sure looks that way doesn't it...I hate to say it but this happens all the time my sons friend had a baby well she tore pretty bad they put her on some pain medication and now she is addicted to it and buys it since the doctor stopped giving it to her..maybe they should think some may become addicted and way the good and bad..she has a 1yr old so we are going to keep the baby while she gets help..it is so easy to get addicted to these drugs..

If his death will be the result of an overdose, I hope it will spark awareness not only with celebrities but to normal folks like us. Addiction to prescription meds has become more dangerous than meth, cocaine, crack especially in highschool and college kids not forgetting some of the cases we've followed where moms of young children are addicts.

Scary.

[who_is_it]

Michael Jackson spent his final night alive in his favorite spot on Earth: the stage.

"At Staples Center Wednesday night, the performer did a full run-through of his planned comeback concert. He and his company -- dancers, musicians, singers, aerial performers, choreographers and costumers -- planned to fly to England early next week for final dress rehearsals at London's O2 Arena, the site of the pop superstar's 50-night sold-out run."

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-jackson-rehearsal27-2009jun27,0,4699249.story

I was sceptical about his comeback and just wished he would stand the pressure of expectations. At the same time I so, so, so wished him that the shows will take place and that he can feel the love of an audience again after all the negative he had to experience during the last years. There were rumors that he only showed up to 2 rehearsal... but to read now they were already doing a full run-through is breaking my heart. He would soooo have deserved to experience it.

[Scampi]

TMZ is reporting that Mr. Jackson's body was released to the family's mortuary last night. This link also has some information of the family speaking with LE and a picture and information about Dr. Conrad Murray.

http://www.tmz.com/

[Scampi]

Michael Jackson spent his final night alive in his favorite spot on Earth: the stage.

"At Staples Center Wednesday night, the performer did a full run-through of his planned comeback concert. He and his company -- dancers, musicians, singers, aerial performers, choreographers and costumers -- planned to fly to England early next week for final dress rehearsals at London's O2 Arena, the site of the pop superstar's 50-night sold-out run."

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-jackson-rehearsal27-2009jun27,0,4699249.story

I was sceptical about his comeback and just wished he would stand the pressure of expectations. At the same time I so, so, so wished him that the shows will take place and that he can feel the love of an audience again after all the negative he had to experience during the last years. There were rumors that he only showed up to 2 rehearsal... but to read now they were already doing a full run-through is breaking my heart. He would soooo have deserved to experience it.


Thank you for finding and posting this article. I am very happy Mr. Jackson was doing what he loved to do most and it certainly clears up the "frail and sickly" rumors, imo.

[who_is_it]

Thank you for finding and posting this article. I am very happy Mr. Jackson was doing what he loved to do most and it certainly clears up the "frail and sickly" rumors, imo.

Read this quote of the article:
"He didn't even take a moment to grab a bottle of water or take a rest. He went from one number to the other."

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-jackson-rehearsal27-2009jun27,0,4699249.story

Nobody would have expected him to be as fit...

[VC2]

Thank you for finding and posting this article. I am very happy Mr. Jackson was doing what he loved to do most and it certainly clears up the "frail and sickly" rumors, imo.

what is really sad is that it seems he was finally getting it together, keeping his addiction at least under control enough that he could even begin to think about a tour let alone rehearse and get one together, he looked so much stronger and now seems he was so much stronger than the past few years, 4 weeks out from the tours first date ..or was it 3 weeks out? If he did die from an overdose, i am not even sure if it will be due to his addiction per se..after 6 or 8 hours of dancing on stage he might well have been in serious back pain the next day and taken something for that on his own (for example a dilaudid) without mentioning it to the doctor before a shot of demerol. Especially if he was moving stiffly and the doc gave it then in good faith. Problem with someone who has or has had an addiction to pain killers is that you can't give them two motrin and expect it to work on them.

He was expected at the rehearsal hall on the day of his death too, apparently some found out by the media calling them there to get more info, so a pain killer may have been indicated.

dont get me wrong, i am not suggesting that he was not addicted, simply that it was possible he actually needed the drugs for real pain and his addiction only indirectly caused his death because he took more than he should have, or he took some then doc gave him a shot and he didn't want to tell the doc he had already taken something.

jmo

[n/t]

what is really sad is that it seems he was finally getting it together, keeping his addiction at least under control enough that he could even begin to think about a tour let alone rehearse and get one together, he looked so much stronger and now seems he was so much stronger than the past few years, 4 weeks out from the tours first date ..or was it 3 weeks out? If he did die from an overdose, i am not even sure if it will be due to his addiction per se..after 6 or 8 hours of dancing on stage he might well have been in serious back pain the next day and taken something for that on his own (for example a dilaudid) without mentioning it to the doctor before a shot of demerol. Especially if he was moving stiffly and the doc gave it then in good faith. Problem with someone who has or has had an addiction to pain killers is that you can't give them two motrin and expect it to work on them.

He was expected at the rehearsal hall on the day of his death too, apparently some found out by the media calling them there to get more info, so a pain killer may have been indicated.

dont get me wrong, i am not suggesting that he was not addicted, simply that it was possible he actually needed the drugs for real pain and his addiction only indirectly caused his death because he took more than he should have, or he took some then doc gave him a shot and he didn't want to tell the doc he had already taken something.
jmo

<bolding mine>

I think that's what happened. He may have other drugs in his system and the interraction may have caused his death.

Isn't that what happened to Anna Nicole, Elvis and Heath Ledger? Accidental overdose?

[callmetree]

http://www.michaeljackson.com/

Remembering Michael Jackson. Share your memory
thank you for posting this. i haven't seen some of these videos since my daughter was a youngster. brought back alot of memories.:wub:

[n/t]

I can't remember what station it was said that Prince Michael (the older boy) was going to perform a duo with Michael. Did anyone else hear this?

I wonder if Prince Michael will follow in his father's footsteps. That would be awesome.

[RootBeer]

I think so, too. He ended nearly every sentence with "sir" - ex-military, maybe?

Just saying, I think all of Michael's brothers talk like that with excellent manners.

[who_is_it]

Did MJ have a will?


According to Frank Dileo, yes.

"'There’s so much speculation as to a will – there is a will. A team of lawyers are gathering today and we’ll sort through all the stuff for the children,' Dileo explained. '[Michael] talked about making sure that his finances were taken care of – to clean up this mess so his children would be protected, so that’s what I’m going to do… That’s what was important to Michael.'"

http://www.accesshollywood.com/michael-jacksons-manager-i-had-to-tell-the-children_article_19755

[who_is_it]

I can't remember what station it was said that Prince Michael (the older boy) was going to perform a duo with Michael. Did anyone else hear this?

I wonder if Prince Michael will follow in his father's footsteps. That would be awesome.

I've read it but I don't know if it was an untrue rumor only. There were a lot of speculations about the show: animals on stage etc.

Obviously the children sometimes joined the rehearsals.

Madonna had planned a surprise appearance according to her manager.

[R~O~S]

if the AP report is true and there was evidence of a heart attack (which actually makes sense to me, i had to agree with the doctor on JVM last night that it was probably more likely since he was in the right age group for sudden heart attacks that kill thousands a year) then i hope that LAPD take off the security hold on the findings at autopsy quickly. For the families sake including his kids. They are more than old enough to be following what is said and if he had an addiction to pain killers but it did not cause his death then i think its unfair to have the hold on the findings. The family might know but its still unfair to have the media only talk about the fact he was prescribed an anti depressant and painkiller as if he was loaded to the gills. Which doesn't make much sense either bc no way MJ did 6 hours of rehearsals dancing and singing if he was loaded with narcotics. I am sure he had whatever his tolerance dose was but that is different.

What was said by the coroners spokesman yesterday was very little..he told us he could say almost nothing except no trauma on external viewing and testing is taking place thanks to LE's security hold.

IMO

There is usually an underlying cause for the massive heart attack that strikes unexpectedly. Given the intense work up Michael had, a blockage should have been discovered. They would have done an EKG, echo, stress test and all the related cholesterol testing. That midlife massive heart attack is typically brought on by undiagnosed valve or muscle damage from a silent heart attack, arrhythmia or blockage which would have shown up in an exam of this extent.

Lots of people don't get routine health care, they can't, it's very expensive and they don't have health insurance or, they simply don't think they need a doctor. They get that little pressure in their chest, it goes away and they write it off as indigestion. Up to 1/2 of heart attack patients waits 2 to 4 hours to seek treatment.

http://www.rgs.uky.edu/odyssey/spring02/treatment.html

That's actually an improvement, when I first became a CPR instructor the average was a 5 hour delay.

My mom had suffered several silent heart attacks & never sought medical help for them. She had a doctor, she saw him regularly, it was her annual physical that caused the doctor to do the further testing, find and fix the problem (she needed a quadruple by pass & didn't have a clue she had a problem).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090627/ap_en_mu/us_michael_jackson

No quoting because this is an AP article, but in the final paragraph the AEG rep states there were multiple policies covering not Micheal's life, but insuring against cancellation of the shows, which is much more than insuring against death. They insure against his incapacitation due to illness & there's an exclusion clause in the event the incapacitation is due to drugs/medication.

There's a lot riding on those toxicology results. It's really unlikely this was a heart attack due to nothing other than the physical stress of Micheal's preparation for the tour. Respiratory arrest would have brought on a heart attack leaving the question of what brought on the respiratory arrest. I think the Dr on JVM was putting the most positive possible thinking into the statement. JMHO

[callmetree]

I wrote her she shouldn't try to make money by a person she didn't respect during his life time. :angry:
i wrote her also. i'm sure none of us will ever hear from her though. i bet her mailbox is overflowing.:glare:

[n/t]

"It's the ultimate irony -- Michael Jackson's death could make his struggling estate flush with cash."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/27/michaels-estate-may-turn-around/

I think there will be tons of new songs released. I've read Michael held them all back in fear the audience wouldn't like them.

Here's another link:

Fans, meanwhile, are rushing to buy Jackson's old songs in a scramble that began within minutes of his death. Both Amazon and Barnes and Noble reported selling out of Jackson's CDs, and his music accounted for the most downloads at Apple's iTunes store.

Amazon's sales of Jackson's albums and MP3s were 700 times higher on Thursday after news of Jackson's death, and they were running at an even higher rate Friday, according to Bill Carr, the company's vice president of music and video.


http://www.fox2now.com/entertainment/sns-ap-us-michael-jackson-estate,0,4822525.story

[n/t]

I love the polls of people's favourite Michael Jackson songs.

Billie Jean and Thriller seem to be the top 2 in all the polls I've seen so far. :smile:

Hard choice. I like them all.

http://www.fox2now.com/entertainment/sns-ap-us-michael-jackson-estate,0,4822525.story

[who_is_it]

i wrote her also. i'm sure none of us will ever hear from her though. i bet her mailbox is overflowing.:glare:

hahaha! i hope so... :wink:

[RootBeer]

I wrote her she shouldn't try to make money by a person she didn't respect during his life time. :angry:

We might not like what she is saying, but we live in a great country that allows all of us to speak freely. We must appreciate our rights.

jmo

[mrsmcgoo]

I wrote her she shouldn't try to make money by a person she didn't respect during his life time. :angry:

She is an investigative reporter. Just because MJ was talented, doesn't mean that he didn't commit crimes and doesn't make him immune.

JMO

[RootBeer]

Where is MJ going to be buried?

I would love to know that myself. For all we know, Michael may have already purchased some burial grounds for his family.

[VC2]

every time my suspicions of the doctor go down, they go back up again lol

The fact that the doctor had left the scene, was not available to sign the death certificate or answer the family's questions about their son's final moments did sit right at all with the Jacksons, according to Rev. Jackson.

"When did the doctor come? What did he do? Did he inject him? If so, with what?" said Rev. Jackson. "Was he on the scene twice? Before and then reaction to? Did he use the Demerol? It's a very powerful drug. Was he injected once? Was he injected twice?"

Rev. Jackson also said the family is considering and will "probably" order a second independent autopsy.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=7939453&page=1

then again wasn't it the doctor who was with the manager to tell the children after michael died?

Also...the family was suing MJ correct? I am wondering how much is true or not...and if MJ wanted his family apart from mom and latoya to have nothing to with him at the moment. I wouldn't talk to family members who sued me!

The family dynamics are very strange bc it seems to me the outside of strange that it wasn't a family member who informed the children of their dads death. One of them should have been dispatched immediately to the kids.

so not sure if its pot calling kettle in this case.

IMO

[who_is_it]

I love the polls of people's favourite Michael Jackson songs.

Billie Jean and Thriller seem to be the top 2 in all the polls I've seen so far. :smile:

Hard choice. I like them all.

http://www.fox2now.com/entertainment/sns-ap-us-michael-jackson-estate,0,4822525.story

I don't like the title of the story "'may be worth more dead than alive'".

One of my favorite songs is a late song which I only since about 3 years: "Rock my world". I also like "Off the wall". I've started to pay more attention to "Thriller" recently by watching all the impersonators (inmates performing thriller, thriller on public transportation etc.). The dance moves are incredible imo.

I like this video when Michael was rehearsing "Thriller" back in the days. He appears highly committed and ingenius.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-rwJl2m1RkEs/rehearsal_michael_jackson_making_thriller/

[callmetree]

guess what guys.... i just got an email back from DD. she informed me that she was not fired from court tv but left on her on to be with her dying mother. does anyone know if this is true?

[who_is_it]

guess what guys.... i just got an email back from DD. she informed me that she was not fired from court tv but left on her on to be with her dying mother. does anyone know if this is true?

I think she wouldn't write it in a personal mail if it wasn't true...

[who_is_it]

every time my suspicions of the doctor go down, they go back up again lol


http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=7939453&page=1

then again wasn't it the doctor who was with the manager to tell the children after michael died?

IMO

Frank Dileo told his children about their father's death.

"Michael Jackson’s Manager: I ‘Had To Tell The Children’"

http://www.accesshollywood.com/michael-jacksons-manager-i-had-to-tell-the-children_article_19755

[RootBeer]

Actually, this is my first post about her. I haven't trashed her here or anywhere else, but I don't approve of what she is doing.

Not here to argue, just making the point that these "rights" you speak of cut both ways.

To be honest, I don't know that much about her, just heard about her here. I can understand distaste for her if she truly is over bias in her reporting. I just wouldn't bother her with emails, she could probably care less what any of us think. jmo

[who_is_it]

Thank you, I agree!

I feel that she and others that are reporting and speaking about unsavory aspects of MJ's life are reminding us that life was not all sunshine and roses with MJ. He had committed questionable actions over the years that will not be forgotten or don't disappear because he has passed on.

I am concerned with the children's future as well. I hope they are protected as much as possible. Unlike Lisa Marie Presley who had a great mother too watch out for her best interests, these children have no one. The new surge of interest in MJ's music will be a winfall for the estate and hopefully someone with integrity will be over seeing things in the interest of these innoncent children.

JMO

I agree with you that there's not only positive to say about Michael Jackson.

Don't want to get into the trial discussion again..., therefore a different example: his plastic surgery. It depends on HOW you report about it: with or without empathy. He suffered from his looks. This article reports about it in an emotional way:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-me-jackson-hilburn27-2009jun27,1,3825411.story?page=1

That's different to reports which title he looks like monster.

What DD is concerned: She's entitled to a different opinion... but to make money (to improve your own life) by someone you hate is not okay.

[who_is_it]

What? The manager had to tell the children? That is just bizaar to me. Not one person in the family?
imo

Google for pics of Frank Dileo. You can see he's his "old" manager. I've read an article in which Philipps, the AEG man, said he got him back on board. I think Frank Dileo was a longterm friend. Maybe he was closer than any family members.

Furthermore: Were there any other family members but Randy?

[Dunlurken]

Yes, our love affair continues! :wink:

I am very interested in exactly what provisions Mr. Jackson made for his children's care in the event of his death. I hope to learn that he provided for them in a trust and designated someone competent to care for them. My opinion of him will skyrocket if he did that.

I don't think Katherine is the person to assume daily care for these children, but of course should remain in their lives to the extent her health allows.



It was just reported on HLN that the Nanny more than likely has guardianship of the kids in Michael's will. They said he does have one. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[legalmania]

Thanks, I appreciate the info.

I keep hearing on TV the kids should go with Mrs. Jackson. She is old and frail. I bet losing MJ won't fair well for her at all. If she were to die. Who gets the kids?

jmo

I'm sure on of the sisters or brothers will take them in that case, but remember Debbie still has rights to them.

[VC2]

Google for pics of Frank Dileo. You can see he's his "old" manager. I've read an article in which Philipps, the AEG man, said he got him back on board. I think Frank Dileo was a longterm friend. Maybe he was closer than any family members.

Furthermore: Were there any other family members but Randy?

Oh yes! they were all there but it was Dileo and Dr. Murray and a social worker who informed the children:
One of those people who got to know the King of Pop over the years was Frank Dileo, Michael’s longtime manager and a member of Jackson’s inner circle, who was at the hospital when the singer died on Thursday, along with family, friends and Jackson’s children.

“His three children were there. They were in a separate room while the doctors worked on Michael,” Dileo told the “Today” show’s Meredith Vieira on Friday. “I’m very sad for his children, his mother, his father, his brothers and sisters. It was a very rough day yesterday for everybody.”

then he goes on to talk about who was with him and the emotion of it.

and yet the family is upset that Dr. Murray did not sit down with them? Well....i am biting my tongue. At least he went to tell the children and explain what happened to them!

*bites tongue harder*

imo

[legalmania]

What? The manager had to tell the children? That is just bizaar to me. Not one person in the family?
imo

I can imagine the children had to be told right away and the family is spread throughout the country. I just feel so bad for the children Michael was their life. They are going to need therapy. They must be so sad and lost.

[VC2]

odd mrsmcgoo. I am in quebec and the day he died everyone was talking about it, both at the gas station and the general store. Lots of tears too which surprised me from the younger (teen) generation but the adults were all very sad at the news as well.

IMO

[R~O~S]

It was just reported on HLN that the Nanny more than likely has guardianship of the kids in Michael's will. They said he does have one. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.


Interesting!! I hope that's true, and doesn't it kinda lend credence to the rumor she could be Blanket's mom?

Does anyone have any information on Grace? I read that was the rumor here, it's not something I had ever heard before, but I've never been one to follow the gossip tabloids. I've never been a celebrity watcher, I really don't care what they're doing in their personal lives & often find it tragic.

I'm kind of interested in whether that could be true though, could she be age appropriate to be the little ones mom?

[Dunlurken]

Is there something wrong with me? For Michael Jackson to even be mentioned in the same sentence with the Beatles, Elvis and Frank Sinatra is totally awsome. Gone too soon says it very well.

However, as someone said yesterday, can't remember who, can anyone imagine an 80 year old Michael Jackson? Not me.

[VC2]

I can imagine the children had to be told right away and the family is spread throughout the country. I just feel so bad for the children Michael was their life. They are going to need therapy. They must be so sad and lost.

only 2 family members were not there. Joe and LaToya i believe (she was there by the time it was announced i believe). As the article states, his brothers, his sisters and his mother were there along with the children.

IMO

[R~O~S]

I can imagine the children had to be told right away and the family is spread throughout the country. I just feel so bad for the children Michael was their life. They are going to need therapy. They must be so sad and lost.


Can you imagine how horrid it would have been for them had they turned on the television and saw all the speculation?

They had to be told & it couldn't wait the several hours it took to gather the family.

Thank goodness someone had the presence of mind to tell them calmly and take special care to shield them from the insanity.

[Dunlurken]

Interesting!! I hope that's true, and doesn't it kinda lend credence to the rumor she could be Blanket's mom?

Does anyone have any information on Grace? I read that was the rumor here, it's not something I had ever heard before, but I've never been one to follow the gossip tabloids. I've never been a celebrity watcher, I really don't care what they're doing in their personal lives & often find it tragic.

I'm kind of interested in whether that could be true though, could she be age appropriate to be the little ones mom?
Is Grace the Nanny? I saw a picture of the Nanny, and she's very pretty and about 30-35 years old. Don't know if it's a current picture though. JMO.

[legalmania]

Is there something wrong with me? For Michael Jackson to even be mentioned in the same sentence with the Beatles, Elvis and Frank Sinatra is totally awsome. Gone too soon says it very well.

However, as someone said yesterday, can't remember who, can anyone imagine an 80 year old Michael Jackson? Not me.

This sounds like a good time to dedicate this song to Michael. Can anybody see this?

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Gone Too Soon (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/gone_too_soon)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[GentleBreeze]

DD is a great reporter.

MJ, IMO, will be remembered primarily for the child molestation charges. His unusual metamorphisis second and his music last.

I hope the best for his children and family.

I am not so sure that is true. With the outpouring of grief felt around the world it seems MJ will be remembered fondly and terribly missed.

imo

[R~O~S]

Is Grace the Nanny? I saw a picture of the Nanny, and she's very pretty and about 30-35 years old. Don't know if it's a current picture though. JMO.


Dun, don't tell anybody, but on this I'm going on my memory of what I read here. I believe Grace is the nanny's name. (I'm sure my secret is safe with you, I haven't a single link to back me up and I could be sooooo wrong. lol)

[mrsmcgoo]

odd mrsmcgoo. I am in quebec and the day he died everyone was talking about it, both at the gas station and the general store. Lots of tears too which surprised me from the younger (teen) generation but the adults were all very sad at the news as well.

IMO

No, honestly, nothing being said here at all. Well I shouldn't say that, because at work when it was brought up, it wasn't a positive response about his death, so I wasn't really counting that out of respect. I mean as far as fans and people crying and such. Of course the radio played more MJ than usual here, which I think would have been done everywhere. Besides that nothing.

[who_is_it]

Is there something wrong with me? For Michael Jackson to even be mentioned in the same sentence with the Beatles, Elvis and Frank Sinatra is totally awsome. Gone too soon says it very well.

However, as someone said yesterday, can't remember who, can anyone imagine an 80 year old Michael Jackson? Not me.

Falco wasn't as popular in the US but in German speaking countries he has become a legend after his death. Someone said he "died at the right time".

Worried if Michael Jackson could deal with the pressure and expectations of the upcoming tour I thought: What if he doesn't make it? -- It would have been his end as an entertainer forever and he probably would have suffered from a total mental break down. Therefore I thought: Maybe it was the right time. At least he could feel a little bit that he's loved again. Everyone wanted to see him perform again. But since I've read the article how advanced the rehearsals already were I've changed my opinion again. It's tragical that he died now and couldn't experience anymore to be back on stage.

Here's the link again:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-jackson-rehearsal27-2009jun27,0,4699249.story

"He just told me how happy he was and that things were working out the way he wanted," DiLeo said."

I wasn't as emotional shortly after his death but now I have to cry when I read this.

[Dunlurken]

This sounds like a good time to dedicate this song to Michael. Can anybody see this?

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Gone Too Soon (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/gone_too_soon)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

Yes, I could see and hear it. Fantastic! Thank you.

[who_is_it]

Dun, don't tell anybody, but on this I'm going on my memory of what I read here. I believe Grace is the nanny's name. (I'm sure my secret is safe with you, I haven't a single link to back me up and I could be sooooo wrong. lol)

Grace Rwaramba

There's an ABC article about Grace but I didn't save the link.

[Scampi]

(snipped)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090627/ap_en_mu/us_michael_jackson

No quoting because this is an AP article, but in the final paragraph the AEG rep states there were multiple policies covering not Micheal's life, but insuring against cancellation of the shows, which is much more than insuring against death. They insure against his incapacitation due to illness & there's an exclusion clause in the event the incapacitation is due to drugs/medication.

There's a lot riding on those toxicology results. It's really unlikely this was a heart attack due to nothing other than the physical stress of Micheal's preparation for the tour. Respiratory arrest would have brought on a heart attack leaving the question of what brought on the respiratory arrest. I think the Dr on JVM was putting the most positive possible thinking into the statement. JMHO


Thanks ROS! A very interesting article. It appears that it was Mr. Jackson who insisted on Dr. Murray going on the tour with him, because he had a "rapport" going back years with him.

Article also mentions "years of financial" problems the good Doctor had. Oh yes, I see this getting very interesting going forward......

[legalmania]

Yes, I could see and hear it. Fantastic! Thank you.

Thanks Dunlurken I was wondering if other people could see it, I'm spending almost $16 bucks a month and I knew it worked for me but I wasn't sure anybody else could see it. If anybody has any request feel free to ask.

[Dunlurken]

Falco wasn't as popular in the US but in German speaking countries he has become a legend after his death. Someone said he "died at the right time".

Worried if Michael Jackson could deal with the pressure and expectations of the upcoming tour I thought: What if he doesn't make it? -- It would have been his end as an entertainer forever and he probably would have suffered from a total mental break down. Therefore I thought: Maybe it was the right time. At least he could feel a little bit that he's loved again. Everyone wanted to see him perform again. But since I've read the article how advanced the rehearsals already were I've changed my opinion again. It's tragical that he died now and couldn't experience anymore to be back on stage.

Here's the link again:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-jackson-rehearsal27-2009jun27,0,4699249.story

"He just told me how happy he was and that things were working out the way he wanted," DiLeo said."

I wasn't as emotional shortly after his death but now I have to cry when I read this.
Has everyone seen the press announcement, or whatever you want to call it, when he announced his upcoming concert? When he says "this is the last curtain call", I about fell out of my chair. Wish I could find a link to it.

[R~O~S]

I am not so sure that is true. With the outpouring of grief felt around the world it seems MJ will be remembered fondly and terribly missed.

imo


I agree! Gentle, I have a profound sadness over his death & I really haven't sorted through my feelings as to why. I'm confused by my reaction.

I believe Michael was at heart a good man, but a man, not perfect. I think he was a tortured soul who made mistakes. I don't know the extent of his mistakes and it's not for me to judge.

I hope he came to his peace with the man in the mirror before he met his maker.

I expect the dear lord will judge his actions in life, and it's to his judgment to decide if the good he did in this world outweighs any mistakes along with Micheal's remorse if he had any. I wouldn't know.

I haven't been what people would term a "fan" since I was a teen. But I enjoyed his music throughout his career. I don't know what the world will remember most, but I know for me it's not going to be the controversies. The tragedy that I don't believe he was ever truly happy, maybe, but not the controversies.

[Dunlurken]

Thanks Dunlurken I was wondering if other people could see it, I'm spending almost $16 bucks a month and I knew it worked for me but I wasn't sure anybody else could see it. If anybody has any request feel free to ask.

The Clintons were totally in awe. Took me a minute to find the video, but it was worth it. Lower right hand side if anyone else wants to view it. Thanks again.

Let us not forget he wrote it for a young man who had just died of cancer, Ryan something.

[who_is_it]

I am not so sure that is true. With the outpouring of grief felt around the world it seems MJ will be remembered fondly and terribly missed.

imo

Even before his death he was terribly missed. A while ago I've read that Michael is the "most demanded celebrity". People missed him. You could feel very well how the media tried to come up with "any" news shortly before his dead -- just to have news about him. There were a lot of things which were BS like speculations about surprise appearances of others stars etc.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Grace Rwaramba

There's an ABC article about Grace but I didn't save the link.


yikes..dont know how factual this is..but found this..there is a nice picture of Grace..apparantly from 2007:

http://hiphop.popcrunch.com/michael-jackson-grace-rwaramba-married/

here's a much more recent pict..dated yesterday in the article.

http://maggiesnotebook.blogspot.com/2009/06/grace-rwaramba-is-michael-jacksons.html


Yikes just google her name and alot pops up!!

LMS

[Dunlurken]

Grace Rwaramba

There's an ABC article about Grace but I didn't save the link.Thanks, I'll try to google the name. I know she was very pretty in the picture I saw, and she's been with the children since 4-ever.

[who_is_it]

Has everyone seen the press announcement, or whatever you want to call it, when he announced his upcoming concert? When he says "this is the last curtain call", I about fell out of my chair. Wish I could find a link to it.

at 7:14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKaySqh1XPU
Michael Jackson O2 Arena Performances Announcement

[legalmania]

The Clintons were totally in awe. Took me a minute to find the video, but it was worth it. Lower right hand side if anyone else wants to view it. Thanks again.

Let us not forget he wrote it for a young man who had just died of cancer, Ryan something.

Yes I can't remember his name either but he dedicates the song to Ryan. I think Hillary looks pretty.

[Dunlurken]

yikes..dont know how factual this is..but found this..there is a nice picture of Grace..apparantly from 2007:

http://hiphop.popcrunch.com/michael-jackson-grace-rwaramba-married/

here's a much more recent pict..dated yesterday in the article.

http://maggiesnotebook.blogspot.com/2009/06/grace-rwaramba-is-michael-jacksons.html


Yikes just google her name and alot pops up!!

LMSThanks. Yep, that's her.

[who_is_it]

allegedly demo tapes of new, unreleased songs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yulA_LY6-9I

Wow!!! Wow!!!

[who_is_it]

Got to log out as it more and more makes me sad.

[R~O~S]

yikes..dont know how factual this is..but found this..there is a nice picture of Grace..apparantly from 2007:

http://hiphop.popcrunch.com/michael-jackson-grace-rwaramba-married/

here's a much more recent pict..dated yesterday in the article.

http://maggiesnotebook.blogspot.com/2009/06/grace-rwaramba-is-michael-jacksons.html


Yikes just google her name and alot pops up!!

LMS


Thank you for these! She's very pretty. It seems she's totally dedicated to the children I hope she has a permanent & prominent place in their lives going forward.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Thanks. Yep, that's her.

Found this link to a whole lot of pictures/images:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Grace++Rwaramba&FORM=IGRE#

LMS:biggrin:

[Dunlurken]

at 7:14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKaySqh1XPU
Michael Jackson O2 Arena Performances Announcement
Thanks for the link. Amazing. And rather prophetic.

[legalmania]

allegedly demo tapes of new, unreleased songs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yulA_LY6-9I

Wow!!! Wow!!!

I think that is from the cd he released last year and it did not do well. That's was convinced him he had to go on tour.

[GentleBreeze]

I agree! Gentle, I have a profound sadness over his death & I really haven't sorted through my feelings as to why. I'm confused by my reaction.

I believe Michael was at heart a good man, but a man, not perfect. I think he was a tortured soul who made mistakes. I don't know the extent of his mistakes and it's not for me to judge.

I hope he came to his peace with the man in the mirror before he met his maker.

I expect the dear lord will judge his actions in life, and it's to his judgment to decide if the good he did in this world outweighs any mistakes along with Micheal's remorse if he had any. I wouldn't know.

I haven't been what people would term a "fan" since I was a teen. But I enjoyed his music throughout his career. I don't know what the world will remember most, but I know for me it's not going to be the controversies. The tragedy that I don't believe he was ever truly happy, maybe, but not the controversies.

I agree, ROS!

I was never an undying fan of MJs but I do know extraordinary amazing talent when I see it and he was one of the best performers ever, right up there with Elvis, imo. Some of his songs are among my favorites.

Yes, you are right, he, like all of us will have to answer to the errors of our ways someday but also God is all knowing and if MJ was never guilty of the things he was accused of then God will let him know that no one here on Earth can hurt him anymore and he can be at peace now.

I believe that MJ was a man who loved so deeply it puzzled others who do not have those capabilities or depth. MJ has done so much in his lifetime to help needy children all across the world. His charitable contributions seem endless.

I will remember MJ for the entertainment he provided to so many and how good it made me feel watching such an extraordinary man who had so many God given talents. I am glad he shared his gift with the world and imo it has brought happiness to so many because of it. MJ always thought God had given him this talent for a purpose and he was to share it.

I would have loved to have seen him on tour. Now whether his body could endure 50 shows I don't know, but I think MJ would have come out and given 300% of himself to show the world he still had those amazing talents to share with the world.

I had tickets to see Elvis' last show. I would have never wanted a refund. I have them today and wouldn't part with them. They mean way too much to me. I think many MJ fans will want to keep their tickets as well.

imo

[legalmania]

Found this link to a whole lot of pictures/images:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Grace++Rwaramba&FORM=IGRE#

LMS:biggrin:

Was that NG pregnant?

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Was that NG pregnant?

Yepper..it sure was...quite the smattering of pics, eh?

LMS:laugh:

[legalmania]

Yepper..it sure was...quite the smattering of pics, eh?

LMS:laugh:

I wonder if he approved those pictures? After all the nasty things she said during his trial he still has a picture of her.

[Barbara fl.]

I agree, ROS!

I was never an undying fan of MJs but I do know extraordinary amazing talent when I see it and he was one of the best performers ever, right up there with Elvis, imo. Some of his songs are among my favorites.

Yes, you are right, he, like all of us will have to answer to the errors of our ways someday but also God is all knowing and if MJ was never guilty of the things he was accused of then God will let him know that no one here on Earth can hurt him anymore and he can be at peace now.

I believe that MJ was a man who loved so deeply it puzzled others who do not have those capabilities or depth. MJ has done so much in his lifetime to help needy children all across the world. His charitable contributions seem endless.

I will remember MJ for the entertainment he provided to so many and how good it made me feel watching such an extraordinary man who had so many God given talents. I am glad he shared his gift with the world and imo it has brought happiness to so many because of it. MJ always thought God had given him this talent for a purpose and he was to share it.

I would have loved to have seen him on tour. Now whether his body could endure 50 shows I don't know, but I think MJ would have come out and given 300% of himself to show the world he still had those amazing talents to share with the world.

I had tickets to see Elvis' last show. I would have never wanted a refund. I have them today and wouldn't part with them. They mean way too much to me. I think many MJ fans will want to keep their tickets as well.

imo


Your post is beautiful....you too seem like a God loving person....may MJ rest in peace....

I too believe that the tickets that were sold may never be returned for a refund....they would be too prescious to hold on to....I know if I had one I wouldn't let got of it....

[R~O~S]

I have to tear myself away to make the bank before closing. Thank you to everyone here for the information you've all provided and the respectful manner.

I'm truly thankful for the respectful manner in light of the natural diversity of opinion.

Best wishes all.

[who_is_it]

it seems to be true what one poster said here today. according to tila tequila's twitter page perez hilton has mocked the death of michael jackson. some celebs gathered up to "unfollow" perez on twitter.

[Barbara fl.]

yep sure looks that way doesn't it...I hate to say it but this happens all the time my sons friend had a baby well she tore pretty bad they put her on some pain medication and now she is addicted to it and buys it since the doctor stopped giving it to her..maybe they should think some may become addicted and way the good and bad..she has a 1yr old so we are going to keep the baby while she gets help..it is so easy to get addicted to these drugs..



Good morning,

I also know a young lady who was a perfect mother and wife until she started getting severe head aches that couldn't be diagnosed and the doctor's put her on adavan (not sure of the spelling)....to make a long story short...she ended up losing her home, he husband and her job, only has visitation for her children...she lives in one room with a young man who has been known to hit her....it breaks my heart....but there was nothing anyone could do, she just refuses to stop, now she buys it off the streets....

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I wonder if he approved those pictures? After all the nasty things she said during his trial he still has a picture of her.

You know these pictures are actually on Grace's Facebook site..I found that when I clicked on one of the pics to enlarge..

It does seem that MJ was a "Lover" not a fighter..when it comes to being hurt by others...

LMS:wink:

[legalmania]

it seems to be true what one poster said here today. according to tila tequila's twitter page perez hilton has mocked the death of michael jackson. some celebs gathered up to "unfollow" perez on twitter.


perez hilton is just a blogger who got lucky. He has contributed nothing to society. He's got a big mouth and he better remember you meet the same people going down as you do going up.

[Barbara fl.]

it seems to be true what one poster said here today. according to tila tequila's twitter page perez hilton has mocked the death of michael jackson. some celebs gathered up to "unfollow" perez on twitter.


I see Perez Hilton as a very jealous individual...so much so that he has to knock anyone who is/was/or is going to be something.....He is what gives bloggers a bad name....

He needs to get a life that is fulfilling for his own needs and stop trying to ruin other peoples lives....JMO

I really do not know this guy very well, the first I heard of him was when he was cursing Ms. California...but I took an instant dislike for his unprofessional manerism....

[Dunlurken]

I'm very curious about Joe Jackson..... I mentioned this to my daughter earlier today. I know he was really bad to his children (wow, my own statement just gave me pause for thought, the song Bad)..... anyway, if it weren't for Joe's "badness", we never would have had a Michael. Just thinking outloud here. Carry on.

Got to go look up the words to "Bad".

[GentleBreeze]

This sounds like a good time to dedicate this song to Michael. Can anybody see this?

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Gone Too Soon (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/gone_too_soon)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

OMG! They should have him up on a huge screen and this being sung at his funeral.

Such a beautiful song.

imo

[legalmania]

You know these pictures are actually on Grace's Facebook site..I found that when I clicked on one of the pics to enlarge..

It does seem that MJ was a "Lover" not a fighter..when it comes to being hurt by others...

LMS:wink:

Come to think of it I don't remember him saying one bad thing about all the people who constantly put him down. I think there were two Michaels one who had a mental issue and then the talented gentleman who was an inspiration to the needy.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I see Perez Hilton as a very jealous individual...so much so that he has to knock anyone who is/was/or is going to be something.....He is what gives bloggers a bad name....

He needs to get a life that is fulfilling for his own needs and stop trying to ruin other peoples lives....JMO

I really do not know this guy very well, the first I heard of him was when he was cursing Ms. California...but I took an instant dislike for his unprofessional manerism....

I first heard of this guy during the Britney Spears "Meltdown"..and just perptuated all the gossip he got on his blog site...and I am sure he is just going to continue in this manner until his Bloggers smack him down...He is a "Gossip Monger"..no more, no less..Cant seem him doing any field investigations to confirm or deny such gossip??Course, that is my opinion!!

LMS:sneaky:

[GentleBreeze]

I see Perez Hilton as a very jealous individual...so much so that he has to knock anyone who is/was/or is going to be something.....He is what gives bloggers a bad name....

He needs to get a life that is fulfilling for his own needs and stop trying to ruin other peoples lives....JMO

I really do not know this guy very well, the first I heard of him was when he was cursing Ms. California...but I took an instant dislike for his unprofessional manerism....

I can't even stomach this guy for a minute or two when they have a blip about him on the cable news channels.

I had never even heard of him until the Miss CL fiasco and certainly don't intend to keep up with him now. He seems to have major issues not only with his potty mouth but his meltdowns. Seems to be quite the jerk and is proud of it.

imo

[Dunlurken]

Come to think of it I don't remember him saying one bad thing about all the people who constantly put him down. I think there were two Michaels one who had a mental issue and then the talented gentleman who was an inspiration to the needy.

He did write a song about Det. Snodden. I don't think it was very "nice". LOL.

[Dunlurken]

OMG! They should have him up on a huge screen and this being sung at his funeral.

Such a beautiful song.

imo

I'm wondering what kind of memorial service the family is planning. They will need a HUGE one or the fans will go ballistic. I was also surprised that the President actually made a statement about Michael's death. Pretty impressive if you ask me. JMO.

[GentleBreeze]

I'm very curious about Joe Jackson..... I mentioned this to my daughter earlier today. I know he was really bad to his children (wow, my own statement just gave me pause for thought, the song Bad)..... anyway, if it weren't for Joe's "badness", we never would have had a Michael. Just thinking outloud here. Carry on.

Got to go look up the words to "Bad".

While that is true that we wouldn't have had the Jackson 5 or MJ it doesn't take away though that IMO Joe abused the children. Today we would not be able to work those kids into the ground at MJs young age like Joe did. There are protections in place now to protect young children. I think he was abusive, especially to MJ knowing all too well that MJ had become their meal ticket. I think Joe put tremendous stress on MJs shoulders for him to carry them all to fame.

imo

[VC2]

I agree, ROS!

snip

I had tickets to see Elvis' last show. I would have never wanted a refund. I have them today and wouldn't part with them. They mean way too much to me. I think many MJ fans will want to keep their tickets as well.

imo

I agree with you there, imo it would be the height of foolishness to part with the MJ tickets. Even if they don't want to keep them forever, their value will just go up over the next few years to the true fans who were unable to get tickets or waited to see if the tour would happen.

I just feel so sad about all this. As i said earlier, it sounded like he was really getting his life back together after the last few years. addiction to painkillers or not, he was fit again, he was able to work his magic dancing and singing, and something really telling to me is that he came back to the states and rented a house, was seen going out and about etc. He just seemed to have shaken off the gremlins and decided to enjoy his life again.

Unlike Elvis who imo just kept spiralling down at the end of his life, MJ had managed to pick himself back up, looking better and healthier than for a long time. If he was as addicted as many have suggested (some who haven't seen him in a few years closely) he MUST have cut his usage down to be able to do what he was and get fitter. I would imagine the fact he was happier and excited too helped with that. I wonder if what might have happened is that he had therefore lost the tolerance he had and perhaps because of real back pain or whatever didn't think twice about taking something before he got his shot of demerol and it was that which killed him..ironically that he was doing less so the amount he used before proved to be deadly. just speculating.

i hate that he had to die early but even more that he didn't manage to at least do one of the shows. I hate it for his sake, that the world won't see that final performance of a fit and reasonably healthy MJ back in form again.

and yet...his family...still...(i dont mean his mom here) actually suing him for not doing the family concert first yet all saying about how worried they were for him. I wish i had all the details of that lawsuit, if it was me..i would have felt so betrayed. Whatever else, he had to do the 02 tour for financial reasons.

ok im babbling away...i just..it isn't FAIR! (yes i know life is not fair lol)

[KatieLady]

I first heard of this guy during the Britney Spears "Meltdown"..and just perptuated all the gossip he got on his blog site...and I am sure he is just going to continue in this manner until his Bloggers smack him down...He is a "Gossip Monger"..no more, no less..Cant seem him doing any field investigations to confirm or deny such gossip??Course, that is my opinion!!

LMS:sneaky:

I prefer to call him a gossip *****! Can't stand the little twerp :cursing:

[GentleBreeze]

I'm wondering what kind of memorial service the family is planning. They will need a HUGE one or the fans will go ballistic. I was also surprised that the President actually made a statement about Michael's death. Pretty impressive if you ask me. JMO.

I think they may select a public memorial and then have a private one just for close family and friends.

I know they are a little hesitant to let others know where MJ will be buried but they may have a place where they will hire guards to guard it constantly.

Remember when someone tried to steal Elvis's body when he was first entombed in an above ground crypt in Memphis? That is why they moved Elvis and his mother to Graceland.

imo

[Dunlurken]

While that is true that we wouldn't have had the Jackson 5 or MJ it doesn't take away though that IMO Joe abused the children. Today we would not be able to work those kids into the ground at MJs young age like Joe did. There are protections in place now to protect young children. I think he was abusive, especially to MJ knowing all too well that MJ had become their meal ticket. I think Joe put tremendous stress on MJs shoulders for him to carry them all to fame.

imo
That's why I'm conflicted about him/Joe. If not for that pressure..... I don't know. :mellow:

I think all the kids were beaten, not just Michael, but I'm not sure. However, Michael was the youngest.

[VC2]

While that is true that we wouldn't have had the Jackson 5 or MJ it doesn't take away though that IMO Joe abused the children. Today we would not be able to work those kids into the ground at MJs young age like Joe did. There are protections in place now to protect young children. I think he was abusive, especially to MJ knowing all too well that MJ had become their meal ticket. I think Joe put tremendous stress on MJs shoulders for him to carry them all to fame.

imo

and still was putting tremendous stress on him if he is behind the lawsuit

IMO

if not for Joe..MJ might have had a chance of liking himself, of a childhood and lived a happy life. The only decent thing i remember joe doing was to stand behind MJ during the trial but then he went off and tried to capitalize on his acquittal! grrrrr

IMO

[Dunlurken]

I think they may select a public memorial and then have a private one just for close family and friends.

I know they are a little hesitant to let others know where MJ will be buried but they may have a place where they will hire guards to guard it constantly.

Remember when someone tried to steal Elvis's body when he was first entombed in an above ground crypt in Memphis? That is why they moved Elvis and his mother to Graceland.

imo

I'm hoping Michael will be buried at Neverland. I posted that yesterday, but not sure you saw the post.

[legalmania]

While that is true that we wouldn't have had the Jackson 5 or MJ it doesn't take away though that IMO Joe abused the children. Today we would not be able to work those kids into the ground at MJs young age like Joe did. There are protections in place now to protect young children. I think he was abusive, especially to MJ knowing all too well that MJ had become their meal ticket. I think Joe put tremendous stress on MJs shoulders for him to carry them all to fame.

imo

Making his minor children work in strip clubs makes my blood boil. He probably thinks they should thank him, but look at the sickness Michael had, and I believe it was because of him.

[legalmania]

I'm hoping Michael will be buried at Neverland. I posted that yesterday, but not sure you saw the post.

Didn't he lose that property to debt? I wonder if the family will have a private funeral?

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I think they may select a public memorial and then have a private one just for close family and friends.

I know they are a little hesitant to let others know where MJ will be buried but they may have a place where they will hire guards to guard it constantly.

Remember when someone tried to steal Elvis's body when he was first entombed in an above ground crypt in Memphis? That is why they moved Elvis and his mother to Graceland.

imo

Somehow, I get a feeling that MJ will ultimately end up on "Neverland Ranch somewhere....Anyone else?..Maybe this site will be like the "Graceland" for Elvis...Sure would be a great place to continue on the legacy of Michael's works...Just a thought on that?!

LMS:thumbsup:

[GentleBreeze]

That's why I'm conflicted about him/Joe. If not for that pressure..... I don't know. :mellow:

I think all the kids were beaten, not just Michael, but I'm not sure. However, Michael was the youngest.

I think MJ would have done just fine but the treatment by his father fractured MJ where it would forever change him. I think he saw an iron fist when it came to Joe but no fatherly love and affection and all boys want that from their dads.

imo

[VC2]

He did write a song about Det. Snodden. I don't think it was very "nice". LOL.

:laugh: i think that is the only time he ever in any way put one of his bashers down. and to be blunt Sneddon more than deserved it!

no...he never wanted confrontation, he never tried to fight back, it was only the trial when he did and there he didn't have much choice.

imo

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Didn't he lose that property to debt? I wonder if the family will have a private funeral?

Apparantly the Note Owed ( lien) was purchased..cant recall the name..I posted it yesterday somewhere...anyway, apparantly it was never sold or auctioned off as planned...So given what has happened..it could very well happen that this little piece of heaven (for Michael) can be preserved in his memory, and for the future of promoting his legacy of works!

LMS

[GentleBreeze]

Somehow, I get a feeling that MJ will ultimately end up on "Neverland Ranch somewhere....Anyone else?..Maybe this site will be like the "Graceland" for Elvis...Sure would be a great place to continue on the legacy of Michael's works...Just a thought on that?!

LMS:thumbsup:

I think it would be perfect.

Not only for his fans but so MJ can rest in a place he loved so much.

imo

[legalmania]

He did write a song about Det. Snodden. I don't think it was very "nice". LOL.


What song do you know, as many people who put him down one isn't bad.

[legalmania]

Apparantly the Note Owed ( lien) was purchased..cant recall the name..I posted it yesterday somewhere...anyway, apparantly it was never sold or auctioned off as planned...So given what has happened..it could very well happen that this little piece of heaven (for Michael) can be preserved in his memory, and for the future of promoting his legacy of works!

LMS


Maybe he planned on buying it back after the tour. I hope Quincy Jones or someone buys it and preserves it for him to become a tourist attraction like Graceland.

[who_is_it]

I think it would be perfect.

Not only for his fans but so MJ can rest in a place he loved so much.

imo

I disagree. As far as I know he never went back to Neverland after the trial. He loved the place... but it's also the place where the grifters and Bashir started to ruin his life.

[Dunlurken]

Didn't he lose that property to debt? I wonder if the family will have a private funeral?

No, he still has the property, but it "belongs" to the company who was bankrolling the tour. That way Michael could get the property back. Very complicated and I don't understand it. Maybe the correct term is "mortgaged" the property.

[Dunlurken]

What song do you know, as many people who put him down one isn't bad.

Gosh, it was played during the trial. Wish I could remember which one it was.....He mentions Snodden specifically.

Trying to give my grand daughter lunch, so will be back in a minute.

[VC2]

Making his minor children work in strip clubs makes my blood boil. He probably thinks they should thank him, but look at the sickness Michael had, and I believe it was because of him.

makes mine boil too. What sort of father even back then would do that. Oh yes i think most of MJ's emotional issues can be traced back to Joe. I do not believe he ever molested a child but i do believe that in many ways the harm that was reaped upon him made him not only want to help children and give them fun and all the stuff he missed, but it was a way for him to have a childhood in a strange sense. Incredibly bad judgement, and inappropriate behavior for his age but imo it was never for bad reasons, yet it sure made him a target with a bulls eye on it for grifters, scam artists etc. of all types.

IMO

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Maybe he planned on buying it back after the tour. I hope Quincy Jones or someone buys it and preserves it for him to become a tourist attraction like Graceland.

Here's what I found regarding the Neverland Ranch:

On February 25, 2008, Jackson received word from Financial Title Company, the trustee, that unless he paid off $24,525,906.61 by March 19, a public auction would go forward of the land, buildings, and other items such as the rides, trains, and art.[9][10] On March 13, 2008, Londell McMillan, Jackson's lawyer, announced that a private agreement had been reached with the private investment group, Fortress Investment, to save Jackson's ownership of the ranch.[11] Before the agreement, Jackson owed three months' arrears on the property.[11] McMillan did not reveal the details of the deal.

On May 12, 2008, a foreclosure auction for the ranch was canceled after an investment company, Colony Capital LLC, purchased the loan. Jackson was in default on the $24.5 million owed on the 2,500-acre (10 km2) property.[12] In a press release, Jackson stated, "I am pleased with recent developments involving Neverland Ranch and I am in discussions with Colony and Tom Barrack with regard to the Ranch and other matters that would allow me to focus on the future."[13][14]

This the part I am referring to:

Jackson still owned an unknown stake in the property,[16] since Sycamore Valley Ranch was a joint venture between Jackson (represented by attorney L. Londell McMillan) and an affiliate of Colony Capital LLC (an investment company run by billionaire Thomas Barrack, Jr).[17][18][19][20][21


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland_Ranch

LMS:tongueside:

[VC2]

Gosh, it was played during the trial. Wish I could remember which one it was.....He mentions Snodden specifically.

Trying to give my grand daughter lunch, so will be back in a minute.

oh my you are right. It WAS played at the trial too. I cant even imagine how to google it, Sneddon and Michael Jackson would come up with 3 million hits. but wasn't the name changed just a little..you keep saying snodden..that could be what it was called in the song.

[bkwits]

Yes, our love affair continues! :wink:

I am very interested in exactly what provisions Mr. Jackson made for his children's care in the event of his death. I hope to learn that he provided for them in a trust and designated someone competent to care for them. My opinion of him will skyrocket if he did that.

I don't think Katherine is the person to assume daily care for these children, but of course should remain in their lives to the extent her health allows.




It's nice to be onboard with you again, Scampi. AND ITA with your post.

IMO

[Dunlurken]

Here's what I found regarding the Neverland Ranch:

On February 25, 2008, Jackson received word from Financial Title Company, the trustee, that unless he paid off $24,525,906.61 by March 19, a public auction would go forward of the land, buildings, and other items such as the rides, trains, and art.[9][10] On March 13, 2008, Londell McMillan, Jackson's lawyer, announced that a private agreement had been reached with the private investment group, Fortress Investment, to save Jackson's ownership of the ranch.[11] Before the agreement, Jackson owed three months' arrears on the property.[11] McMillan did not reveal the details of the deal.

On May 12, 2008, a foreclosure auction for the ranch was canceled after an investment company, Colony Capital LLC, purchased the loan. Jackson was in default on the $24.5 million owed on the 2,500-acre (10 km2) property.[12] In a press release, Jackson stated, "I am pleased with recent developments involving Neverland Ranch and I am in discussions with Colony and Tom Barrack with regard to the Ranch and other matters that would allow me to focus on the future."[13][14]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland_Ranch

LMS:tongueside:Thanks. He wanted the ranch back, which is why he was going on tour. To get Neverland back. A perfect place for him to buried. Under that tree that he liked to climb. JMO.

[Dunlurken]

oh my you are right. It WAS played at the trial too. I cant even imagine how to google it, Sneddon and Michael Jackson would come up with 3 million hits. but wasn't the name changed just a little..you keep saying snodden..that could be what it was called in the song.

I think Sneddon is right. We called him Snodden (snoddy). LOL. My memory starts to fail me after so many trials.

[VC2]

Ah i think i foudn the title.

It was a cut called D.S.

[VC2]

Here is a link to the lyrics. He did change the name but it was clearly sneddon he was talking about, he does ahve a brother who is a white supremacist etc etc.
http://www.lyrics007.com/Michael%20Jackson%20Lyrics/D.%20S.%20Lyrics.html
IMO

[Maranatha]

The WSJ would do occasional stories on MJ from a financial standpoint, and this report on Neverland was published on 6/13/09. Interesting read.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124484259109711019.html

[Dunlurken]

Here is a link to the lyrics. He did change the name but it was clearly sneddon he was talking about, he does ahve a brother who is a white supremacist etc etc.
http://www.lyrics007.com/Michael%20Jackson%20Lyrics/D.%20S.%20Lyrics.html
IMO

That's it. How did we get on this topic? LOL. I know it was me, but can't remember why I brought it up.

[R~O~S]

Didn't he lose that property to debt? I wonder if the family will have a private funeral?

He never fully lost Neverland, but he no longer considered it his home.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland_Ranch

He doesn't still fully own it, but he still owns a portion of it. I can't imagine he'd want to be put to rest there.

I think the family will do a public memorial, I think there will be tremendous pressure for them to do something public, but I also expect his resting place will either be kept a guarded secret or totally inaccessible to the public. A very private family funeral & burial.

Kinda like everyone knows where Princess Dianna is, but they can't get there because it's on an island on the Althorp Estate & only open to the public once a year under heavy security.

[Dunlurken]

He never fully lost Neverland, but he no longer considered it his home.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland_Ranch

He doesn't still fully own it, but he still owns a portion of it. I can't imagine he'd want to be put to rest there.

I think the family will do a public memorial, I think there will be tremendous pressure for them to do something public, but I also expect his resting place will either be kept a guarded secret or totally inaccessible to the public. A very private family funeral & burial.

Kinda like everyone knows where Princess Dianna is, but they can't get there because it's on an island on the Althorp Estate & only open to the public once a year under heavy security.But remember Princess Diana had a very public Meorial service with the best of the best there. I doubt Michael will get that kind of service, but we shall see. JMO.

John Lennon had ten minutes of silence worldwide. First time I was able to get my three year old to sit still and not say a word.

[R~O~S]

But remember Princess Diana had a very public Meorial service with the best of the best there. I doubt Michael will get that kind of service, but we shall see. JMO.

John Lennon had ten minutes of silence worldwide. First time I was able to get my three year old to sit still and not say a word.

Yes, that's why I compared them. I think it will be very similar. A very public memorial, a very private burial & burial site.

[legalmania]

Here's what I found regarding the Neverland Ranch:

On February 25, 2008, Jackson received word from Financial Title Company, the trustee, that unless he paid off $24,525,906.61 by March 19, a public auction would go forward of the land, buildings, and other items such as the rides, trains, and art.[9][10] On March 13, 2008, Londell McMillan, Jackson's lawyer, announced that a private agreement had been reached with the private investment group, Fortress Investment, to save Jackson's ownership of the ranch.[11] Before the agreement, Jackson owed three months' arrears on the property.[11] McMillan did not reveal the details of the deal.

On May 12, 2008, a foreclosure auction for the ranch was canceled after an investment company, Colony Capital LLC, purchased the loan. Jackson was in default on the $24.5 million owed on the 2,500-acre (10 km2) property.[12] In a press release, Jackson stated, "I am pleased with recent developments involving Neverland Ranch and I am in discussions with Colony and Tom Barrack with regard to the Ranch and other matters that would allow me to focus on the future."[13][14]

This the part I am referring to:

Jackson still owned an unknown stake in the property,[16] since Sycamore Valley Ranch was a joint venture between Jackson (represented by attorney L. Londell McMillan) and an affiliate of Colony Capital LLC (an investment company run by billionaire Thomas Barrack, Jr).[17][18][19][20][21


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland_Ranch

LMS:tongueside:

Thanks Lynda that is very helpful.

[VC2]

He never fully lost Neverland, but he no longer considered it his home.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland_Ranch

He doesn't still fully own it, but he still owns a portion of it. I can't imagine he'd want to be put to rest there.

I think the family will do a public memorial, I think there will be tremendous pressure for them to do something public, but I also expect his resting place will either be kept a guarded secret or totally inaccessible to the public. A very private family funeral & burial.

Kinda like everyone knows where Princess Dianna is, but they can't get there because it's on an island on the Althorp Estate & only open to the public once a year under heavy security.

It depends what he wants done with his body. If he still wants it cryogenetically frozen or whatever the term is then there won't be a "place".

For security purposes i think the best thing would be a cremation with his ashes scattered some place he loved, but after being burned in that fire im not sure he would like the idea of cremation, would surprise me if that was his wish.

A straight burial..its hard because in the US there are pretty strict laws about where a body can be buried. I don't think its easy to get someone buried at their home, 20 years ago it was easier and graceland was going to be kept forever by the estate. Neverland is half mortgaged, has liens on it etc. There would be no way of assuring that it would be kept as his grave spot in perpetuity. It would have to be a crypt in a well guarded cemetary i think.

IMO

[Dunlurken]

Yes, that's why I compared them. I think it will be very similar. A very public memorial, a very private burial & burial site.
Yes, but Graceland is protected, so why not protect Neverland? I still think that's where he would want to buried. JMO. We shall see what his will says. He may want to be cremated, we just don't know yet.

[Dunlurken]

It depends what he wants done with his body. If he still wants it cryogenetically frozen or whatever the term is then there won't be a "place".

For security purposes i think the best thing would be a cremation with his ashes scattered some place he loved, but after being burned in that fire im not sure he would like the idea of cremation, would surprise me if that was his wish.

A straight burial..its hard because in the US there are pretty strict laws about where a body can be buried. I don't think its easy to get someone buried at their home, 20 years ago it was easier and graceland was going to be kept forever by the estate. Neverland is half mortgaged, has liens on it etc. There would be no way of assuring that it would be kept as his grave spot in perpetuity. It would have to be a crypt in a well guarded cemetary i think.

IMOWell then, we need to talk to that dang company that has the lien on Neverland. Graceland is opened up once a year and makes millions. And the theme park at Neverland could attract thousands of tourists and here comes the bucks. JMO.

[legalmania]

Here is a link to the lyrics. He did change the name but it was clearly sneddon he was talking about, he does ahve a brother who is a white supremacist etc etc.
http://www.lyrics007.com/Michael%20Jackson%20Lyrics/D.%20S.%20Lyrics.html
IMO

Here is the song I think

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - D.S. (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/ds)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[bkwits]

http://www.makli.com/grace-rwaramba/

Here are some photos of Grace, the childrens' nanny.

[Dunlurken]

http://www.makli.com/grace-rwaramba/

Here are some photos of Grace, the childrens' nanny.Thank you for the link. There are other links to her back a few pages. She looks like a wonderful woman, kind of strict though. I wonder if she was doing the home schooling? That will be interesting to find out who did the home schooling. JMO.

[R~O~S]

Yes, but Graceland is protected, so why not protect Neverland? I still think that's where he would want to buried. JMO. We shall see what his will says. He may want to be cremated, we just don't know yet.


Oh I know, much too soon to know. I'm not sure they can clear the Neverland title fast enough for this purpose. But your earlier thought is so valid. I can't imagine he would have wanted cremation given the fire injuries.

I haven't the faintest idea what Michael would have wanted, it's all speculation until the family tells us.

I wonder if either Dianna Ross or Elizabeth Taylor will step forward with an appropriate place that could be protected and insured to remain perpetually?

Then there's the religious aspect, what are the Muslim beliefs regarding burial? Is cremation allowed? Favored? I have no idea.

[Dunlurken]

Here is the song I think

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - D.S. (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/ds)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

Yep, that's Sneddon. In one of the photos, he's shaking hands with DD. JMO.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Oh I know, much too soon to know. I'm not sure they can clear the Neverland title fast enough for this purpose. But your earlier thought is so valid. I can't imagine he would have wanted cremation given the fire injuries.

I haven't the faintest idea what Michael would have wanted, it's all speculation until the family tells us.

I wonder if either Dianna Ross or Elizabeth Taylor will step forward with an appropriate place that could be protected and insured to remain perpetually?

Then there's the religious aspect, what are the Muslim beliefs regarding burial? Is cremation allowed? Favored? I have no idea.

Well now..since you asked..here's what I found:

http://islam.about.com/cs/elderly/a/funerals.htm

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/309/6953/521

http://mortuarytransport.com/muslim-funeral-customs/

This is a little information on Muslim death customs. My personal experience has been varied. The most devout Muslims require the bathing, shrouding and burial within 24 hours of death, even if it means delaying the declared time of death

I knew I heard this underlined portion..but it wont happen in this case.

LMS

[legalmania]

I understand severe chronic pain, it makes you unfuntionable. My dr. gave me nothing stronger than Tylenol 4. Their thinking was you can't treat severe, ongoing 24/7 pain with potential additive meds (my 1st drs.). But when you need to function to a certain degree that's all you have. You can't sleep soundly if you constantly wake up in pain from movement. I was starting to get addicted and changed drs. now I don't get nothing but useless Ultram, and I am unable to do many things. I've went to ER to get pain shots maybe 2 times a yr when it was so severe, I do understand, the yrs of him dancing like he did took a toll on his body. When you live it, you understand pain more clearly. RIP Michael. You are loved by many.:wub: JMO

It's a good thing you got off the Tylenol 4 the Tylenol will tear up your liver. I remember I was taking those for pain and it took me 8 weeks to get it out of my body. Ultram makes me sick it doesn't mix well with my asthma medications.

[iamthegradua]

Who is profiting here?

"He's pumping, he's pumping his chest but he's not responding at anything, sir. please."

When the attendant asked the unidentified voice if anybody had witnessed what happened, the unidentified voice asked the Doctor,

"Did you witness what happened?"

Why did this person use the Doctor to dodge a simple question, this was not a medical question?

It appears as if Michael Jackson's executioners are not answering any questions, they are merely trying to create the false impression that there was a genuine effort to resuscitate Michael Jackson while he was lying in bed dying.

I think this story is ugly, and this is probably the best source for understanding the truth about the strange death of Michael Jackson. (http://surftofind.com/change)


I don't think this story is going away any time soon.

[VC2]

I understand severe chronic pain, it makes you unfuntionable. My dr. gave me nothing stronger than Tylenol 4. Their thinking was you can't treat severe, ongoing 24/7 pain with potential additive meds (my 1st drs.). But when you need to function to a certain degree that's all you have. You can't sleep soundly if you constantly wake up in pain from movement. I was starting to get addicted and changed drs. now I don't get nothing but useless Ultram, and I am unable to do many things. I've went to ER to get pain shots maybe 2 times a yr when it was so severe, I do understand, the yrs of him dancing like he did took a toll on his body. When you live it, you understand pain more clearly. RIP Michael. You are loved by many.:wub: JMO

It is why i don't look at MJ as per his death quite as i do some addicts who do not have chronic pain (i feel badly for all addicts but i just find it different). Its more difficult in many ways to get over an addiction when you have a chronic painful condition, be it chronic back pain that can become severe, and lupus itself if it can cause severe attacks of pain. It said he was in remission but its a disease that can come and go as far as sympoms are concerned.

So what is he meant to do when the real pain occurs? I know from experience that many of the "non addictive" pain killers will do absolutely nothing when its really severe. For someone who has an addiction to pain killers because he was prescribed it when needed (burns take a long time to heal when that bad) they are even more useless. It becomes a vicious cycle and yes if he had faced his addiction then fantastic but again, the fear of pain with no relief makes it much harder than just the fear of no drugs like most addicts.

If he died from demerol or a combination of pain killers the sad thing is that he may really have needed the pain killers that day and either a mistake was made or he didn't tell the doctor he had taken something himself bc he didn't think it important or or or or. Which imo does not make him die from drug addiction necessarily as much as die from drugs that were taken for a legitimate reason.

does that make any sense? i know what i am trying to say lol

[R~O~S]

Well now..since you asked..here's what I found:

http://islam.about.com/cs/elderly/a/funerals.htm

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/309/6953/521

http://mortuarytransport.com/muslim-funeral-customs/

This is a little information on Muslim death customs. My personal experience has been varied. The most devout Muslims require the bathing, shrouding and burial within 24 hours of death, even if it means delaying the declared time of death

I knew I heard this underlined portion..but it wont happen in this case.

LMS


TY Linda, I had to go look myself. If I'm reading this right, I don't think cremation is an option. Preferably no embalming, burial as soon as possible, preferably without a coffin where not prohibited by law the body laid to rest on it's side facing Mecca. Only the men accompany the body to the burial site.

http://islam.about.com/cs/elderly/a/funerals.htm

I don't see much of that happening.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

TY Linda, I had to go look myself. If I'm reading this right, I don't think cremation is an option. Preferably no embalming, burial as soon as possible, preferably without a coffin where not prohibited by law the body laid to rest on it's side facing Mecca. Only the men accompany the body to the burial site.

http://islam.about.com/cs/elderly/a/funerals.htm

I don't see much of that happening.

From my reading, there are alot of variations..and it also depends of which particular culture you are living in, and their customs too..Michael has not always been Muslim in his beliefs, so may very well have some considerations by all cultural inputs...Guess we will see how this all goes down.. For all we know he may have commissioned the clear casket, which he tried out in ( hyperbarric or somesort of treatment)..many years back..

We have to know tho, that if Michael has anything to do with the plans..it will be very dramatic!! He certainly was the Consumate Entertainer!! I dont think Cremation is part of the plans either..IMO

LMS

[bkwits]

Was MJ a Muslim? Did he officially leave Jehovah's Witnesses?

[legalmania]

It is why i don't look at MJ as per his death quite as i do some addicts who do not have chronic pain (i feel badly for all addicts but i just find it different). Its more difficult in many ways to get over an addiction when you have a chronic painful condition, be it chronic back pain that can become severe, and lupus itself if it can cause severe attacks of pain. It said he was in remission but its a disease that can come and go as far as symptoms are concerned.

So what is he meant to do when the real pain occurs? I know from experience that many of the "non addictive" pain killers will do absolutely nothing when its really severe. For someone who has an addiction to pain killers because he was prescribed it when needed (burns take a long time to heal when that bad) they are even more useless. It becomes a vicious cycle and yes if he had faced his addiction then fantastic but again, the fear of pain with no relief makes it much harder than just the fear of no drugs like most addicts.

If he died from demerol or a combination of pain killers the sad thing is that he may really have needed the pain killers that day and either a mistake was made or he didn't tell the doctor he had taken something himself bc he didn't think it important or or or or. Which imo does not make him die from drug addiction necessarily as much as die from drugs that were taken for a legitimate reason.

does that make any sense? i know what i am trying to say lol

It was obvious to me the man was in pain, when the judge ordered him to court and he had to come in his pj's because he was in to much pain to change, that was sad. If I was him I would have come on a gurney. He had 3rd degree burns on his head with that commercial. That takes years and there isn't a whole lot of skin on your skull. Look at Tiger Woods getting hurt just playing golf, imagine him jumping and twisting his body for years. Michael was definitely in severe pain.

[R~O~S]

We have to know tho, that if Michael has anything to do with the plans..it will be very dramatic!! He certainly was the Consumate Entertainer!!

I expect you're right, if Michael put any of his wishes in writing or made them known to anyone close to him, it will be a grand farewell.

[Dunlurken]

From my reading, there are alot of variations..and it also depends of which particular culture you are living in, and their customs too..Michael has not always been Muslim in his beliefs, so may very well have some considerations by all cultural inputs...Guess we will see how this all goes down.. For all we know he may have commissioned the clear casket, which he tried out in ( hyperbarric or somesort of treatment)..many years back..

We have to know tho, that if Michael has anything to do with the plans..it will be very dramatic!! He certainly was the Consumate Entertainer!! I dont think Cremation is part of the plans either..IMO

LMSDamm, wonder if we could find his will on line. It should be "filed" somewhere. San Bernandino courts maybe?

[VC2]

Thank you for the link. There are other links to her back a few pages. She looks like a wonderful woman, kind of strict though. I wonder if she was doing the home schooling? That will be interesting to find out who did the home schooling. JMO.

from all accounts MJ was a fantastic father (yes i know he held the baby over the balcony, and Steven Irwin held his baby as he fed a crocodile a chicken..somtimes ppl do stupid things) but i can imagine some strictness was a good thing with him as dad lol.

Probably balanced his spoiling them with a regular routine and lessons and discipline. One thing i give him lots of credit for. He had a not just a good nanny for the kids but he kept her in their life rather than petulantly firing and hiring as some celebs do. The children grew up with some stability no matter how shaky MJ himself could be at times or his life.

imo

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Was MJ a Muslim? Did he officially leave Jehovah's Witnesses?

I found this..guess you can take it or leave it..however, it is interesting who he had surrounded himself with in the past few years..


http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/michael-jackson-muslim

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/17555/michael-jackson-islam


LMS

[R~O~S]

Was MJ a Muslim? Did he officially leave Jehovah's Witnesses?

Well, this is dated 11/08, I assumed it was current & correct? I apologize if I jumped to conclusions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/3494296/Michael-Jackson-converts-to-Islam-and-changes-name-to-Mikaeel.html

The singer, who was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, converted to Islam in a ceremony at a friend's house in Los Angeles.

[Dunlurken]

from all accounts MJ was a fantastic father (yes i know he held the baby over the balcony, and Steven Irwin held his baby as he fed a crocodile a chicken..somtimes ppl do stupid things) but i can imagine some strictness was a good thing with him as dad lol.


imo

snipped to address: Thank you for reminding us about Steve Irwin. That baby was 4 weeks old.

[Mimi428]

Thanks ROS! A very interesting article. It appears that it was Mr. Jackson who insisted on Dr. Murray going on the tour with him, because he had a "rapport" going back years with him.

Article also mentions "years of financial" problems the good Doctor had. Oh yes, I see this getting very interesting going forward......

I'm waiting to find out what the cause was for years of financial problems. Doctors have insurance to take care of lawsuits.

From the moment we heard that the doctor was nowhere to be found, it has made me wonder if he had his own issues with drug use.

I think you are exactly right - it will be very interesting to find out his history & hear what reasons will be put forth for why MJ had to have a live-in physician - especially a cardiologist & most especially a cardiologist who didn't have sense enough to put the patient on a hard surface for CPR. I'm still shaking my head over that one.

[legalmania]

Damm, wonder if we could find his will on line. It should be "filed" somewhere. San Bernandino courts maybe?

Yes but wasn't he born in Indiana? Maybe he wants to be buried in his real hometown. I would think he would want a funeral like Princess Diana. He loved her so much as we all did.

[Amy S.]

Heck, I thought he was Mormon. http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=Michael+Jackson+mormon&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[Mr. Moto2]

Here's the whole GQ article about the Jordy Chandler debacle. It gives, what Paul Harvey would say, "The rest of the story.":

http://www.buttonmonkey.com/misc/maryfischer.html

[VC2]

It was obvious to me the man was in pain, when the judge ordered him to court and he had to come in his pj's because he was in to much pain to change, that was sad. If I was him I would have come on a gurney. He had 3rd degree burns on his head with that commercial. That takes years and there isn't a whole lot of skin on your skull. Look at Tiger Woods getting hurt just playing golf, imagine him jumping and twisting his body for years. Michael was definitely in severe pain.

I can understand why the judge was skeptical and ordered him in since he wasn't an emergency case per se, but i have only twice had my back go out and the idea of changing my pants would have made me shudders..rather look crazy in pajamas than change. Just lifting your leg can cause more agony or the slightest movement to the side. Like you i would have come in on a gurney lol.

You know, considering the emotional state he was in (and there was lots of evidence of that just looking at him, let alone from friends and stuff) and how incredibly private he was, I was surprised that he managed to sit through each day of testimony and endure the trial. Branfman who was brought in by Geragos (his first attorney) said that he told Geragos after meeting MJ that he believed they could win the case but he was not sure that they could keep him alive until the end of it. Apparently after he explained the process, the length of trial what would happen etc, this 45 year old man in a suit threw himself into Branfman's arms sobbing hysterically like a 10 year old would. He was talking about it the day MJ died, and how he was emotionally very child like. Also mentioned as he was trying to soothe him and had his arms around him, he could feel every bone in his back through the suit. It wasn't funny but i did have a little big of a wry smile at the shock the attorney must have felt, not to many adult defendants throw themselves into their arms on a first meeting.

Meserau did a fantastic job of keeping MJ together, ensuring he stuck to the rules of no out of bounds scenes like the truck jumping etc. The only time that there was a problem was pajama day.

IMO

[Mimi428]

I will never believe Michael molested kids. JMO


<snipped>

What's your theory on why all those erotica/porn mags & books were found during the search warrant?

I think the website Smoking Gun had the list way back when, don't know if they still have it - but for someone who has been repeatedly described as asexual, non-sexual, childlike, etc - he sure had plenty of sexually explicit material around. And IIRC, both his fingerprints & those of one or more of the boys were found on the pages.

[Pretty Leaf]

Listened to a doc on a Canadian show who is familiar with MJ, saying his facial surguries were a form of self mutilation because of the abuse that he had at the hands of his father. childhood trauma many times morphs into one wanting to change/hurt themself.

Another thing he had written a new song to be introduced in his farewell tour. One of his freinds (Deppak??) has the only copy that was given out. It arrived with bodyguards wrapped in multiple layers of plastic.

When he died one of my sons said that he had recorded a new song that was said to be a legacy to his children. I had never heard that but now that this is known he had written a new song then that could be true.

Perhaps with it's future release many of his debts that survive him in death may be paid off.

[R~O~S]

Here's the whole GQ article about the Jordy Chandler debacle. It gives, what Paul Harvey would say, "The rest of the story.":

http://www.buttonmonkey.com/misc/maryfischer.html

Which can only bring back memories of a famous quote:

"Which office do I go to get my reputation back?"

May 25th 1987, by Ray Donovan, former US Secretary of Labor after being acquitted along with all six of his co-defendents on all charges for corruption.

[GentleBreeze]

Well then, we need to talk to that dang company that has the lien on Neverland. Graceland is opened up once a year and makes millions. And the theme park at Neverland could attract thousands of tourists and here comes the bucks. JMO.

Graceland is open year round and brings in mega millions each year. The lines are the longest during his birthday in January and on the anniversary week when he died in August but it is a steady stream of people from all over the world even on a regular day. LOL Can ya tell I have been there a few times?:laugh:

Neverland should also be opened year round.

imo

[Mimi428]

from all accounts MJ was a fantastic father


<snipped>

Emotionally child like - or a fantastic father?

You can't be both. Fantastic parents are not emotionally childlike. Adults who remain emotionally childlike are not good parents.

JMO

[who_is_it]

<snipped>
When he died one of my sons said that he had recorded a new song that was said to be a legacy to his children. I had never heard that but now that this is known he had written a new song then that could be true.
<snipped>



allegedly demo tapes of new, unreleased songs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yulA_LY6-9I

there must be tons of unreleased songs which he recorded with akon and will.i.am.

[VC2]

I'm waiting to find out what the cause was for years of financial problems. Doctors have insurance to take care of lawsuits.

From the moment we heard that the doctor was nowhere to be found, it has made me wonder if he had his own issues with drug use.

I think you are exactly right - it will be very interesting to find out his history & hear what reasons will be put forth for why MJ had to have a live-in physician - especially a cardiologist & most especially a cardiologist who didn't have sense enough to put the patient on a hard surface for CPR. I'm still shaking my head over that one.

the 1.8 million dollar house might be one reason for the 400k of debt :laugh:

I can't remember what friend it was of MJ's who said that he was nervous about the tour, about managing to make it through all the dates (which is why some were changed from july to march) health wise. Not nervous in the sense he didn't want to do it but hey reality is, he was 50 years old. He also may not have wanted to deal with calling doctor's in for anything from pain to a twisted ankle at the end of the night, but wanted someone available 24/7.

I remember from the trial, TM said that michael had a habit of treating the middle of the night like daytime and calling with a question at 3 am or wanting to talk. He hardly lived a life like anyone else, incluuding most celebs..he truly was in a bubble, both of his own making and put on him.

It probably was as simple as knowing he could pay (or the tour could) for him to have a dr at his side at all times, and he wanted him.

For drugs doesn't really make a lot of sense as the reason MJ was perfectly capable of swallowing them orally or jabbing himself with a needle all on his own, and at the most having someone else who worked for him do it. Prescriptions can be faxed around the world these days, so again it wouldn't be a case of running out. The doctor cant make drugs appear out of his mouth lol, still has to come from a pharmacy somewhere.

I think he was there because he could have him. Part nerves too. Liza Minelli said he had complained of chest pain before, which could be why he wanted a cardiologist just in case, and he was his personal physician for at least a year.

IMO

Eta or short answer: friends and/or family were all worried about the toll the tour would take on his health and warning him, and he finally said "fine, i will have a doctor at my side at all times" and then proceeded to arrange it.

[GentleBreeze]

from all accounts MJ was a fantastic father (yes i know he held the baby over the balcony, and Steven Irwin held his baby as he fed a crocodile a chicken..somtimes ppl do stupid things) but i can imagine some strictness was a good thing with him as dad lol.

Probably balanced his spoiling them with a regular routine and lessons and discipline. One thing i give him lots of credit for. He had a not just a good nanny for the kids but he kept her in their life rather than petulantly firing and hiring as some celebs do. The children grew up with some stability no matter how shaky MJ himself could be at times or his life.

imo

Well I would be willing to bet that all three of his children knows what it means to be a child and enjoy life while they are.

Everyone that speaks of MJ that knew him on a personal basis said he was a very loving, caring and doting father to his children.

I think Steve Irwin represented what a true loving father and husband is supposed to be. That man exuded nothing but love.

imo

[who_is_it]

<snipped>

What's your theory on why all those erotica/porn mags & books were found during the search warrant?

I think the website Smoking Gun had the list way back when, don't know if they still have it - but for someone who has been repeatedly described as asexual, non-sexual, childlike, etc - he sure had plenty of sexually explicit material around. And IIRC, both his fingerprints & those of one or more of the boys were found on the pages.

There were porn mags on the ranch. So what?

A "Smoking Gun" article mentioned that strangely the boys recalled exactly a list of porn websites they've allegedly visited with MJ... but didn't recall important things like the timeline or number of molestations. You can bet they were given a list with porn websites...

"His exact recollection of which porno urls were surfed from Jackson's bedroom--not to mention the star's "Got Milk?" quip--is striking (and probably seen as incredible by defense lawyers)."

page 3
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/michaeljackson/010605jackson.html

I don't want to get deeper into the trial discussion anymore.

[R~O~S]

I'm waiting to find out what the cause was for years of financial problems. Doctors have insurance to take care of lawsuits.

From the moment we heard that the doctor was nowhere to be found, it has made me wonder if he had his own issues with drug use.

I think you are exactly right - it will be very interesting to find out his history & hear what reasons will be put forth for why MJ had to have a live-in physician - especially a cardiologist & most especially a cardiologist who didn't have sense enough to put the patient on a hard surface for CPR. I'm still shaking my head over that one.

It seems it's the result of financial judgments, not malpractice, at least from the little we know as yet:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local_other/article/JACK27_20090626-222606/276683/

Despite the upscale residence, the 51-year-old was struggling with financial problems. He was hit with hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal judgments last year and has a history of money problems.

In 2008, three judgments were filed against Murray or his company, Global Cardiovascular Associates, in Clark County, Nev., totaling more than $435,000, and two other cases are pending from companies that say Murray owes them a total of $355,000.


I'm sure being a doctor doesn't make anyone a good businessman. It seems he was over extended and his debtors wanted to be paid. At least that's how I read it.

Ed McMahon, God rest his soul, made a lot of money over his career and managed to end up in foreclosure. Mike Tyson made millions on millions and ended up in bankruptcy. Michael himself made fortunes several times over, but spent so much he was always in financial stress of late.

[legalmania]

Listened to a doc on a Canadian show who is familiar with MJ, saying his facial surguries were a form of self mutilation because of the abuse that he had at the hands of his father. childhood trauma many times morphs into one wanting to change/hurt themself.

Another thing he had written a new song to be introduced in his farewell tour. One of his freinds (Deppak??) has the only copy that was given out. It arrived with bodyguards wrapped in multiple layers of plastic.

When he died one of my sons said that he had recorded a new song that was said to be a legacy to his children. I had never heard that but now that this is known he had written a new song then that could be true.

Perhaps with it's future release many of his debts that survive him in death may be paid off.

From what I understand he started looking like his father and that was something he couldn't live with. I'm sure that within the next year his estate will be debt free and his children will be well off. Hopefully he picked a good personal representative who is also a good businessman and will protect his children's money so they can live the life they are accustomed to.

[Dunlurken]

Graceland is open year round and brings in mega millions each year. The lines are the longest during his birthday in January and on the anniversary week when he died in August but it is a steady stream of people from all over the world even on a regular day. LOL Can ya tell I have been there a few times?:laugh:

Neverland should also be opened year round.

imoI think so too. I'm sure the planning is in the works. First of all, the company can get it's money back.

[Mimi428]

Much of Jackson's money went to lawyers.

I have read & heard for more than a couple of years that he was completely irresponsible, financially. The most common remarks were things along the lines of "he was a millionaire who spent money like a billionaire" - & that he had routinely, over the years, spent $20-$30 million more per year than his income for that year.

[R~O~S]

Makes sense to me. :)

They'd need to bring back the theme park and the animals that were housed there. The amusements were sold off long ago and the animals that were there were relocated while Michael was in Bahrain.

http://www.edhat.com/site/tidbit.cfm?id=2752

It didn't take long. On Monday, November 10, Michael Jackson officially deeded over ownership of Neverland's 2,675 oak studded acres to Sycamore Valley Ranch Company, LLC. Neighbors said moving vans and merry-go-rounds have been rolling down Figueroa Mountain Road.

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/neverland%20animals%20find%20new%20homes_1000400

The star has been living in Bahrain for the last 12 months since his acquittal of child molestation charges. Jackson's two tigers, SABU and THRILLER, are now being cared for by actress TIPPI HEDREN. THE BIRDS actress runs the Shambala feline sanctuary and her fiance, Dr MARTIN DINNES, is Jackson's long-time veterinarian. Dinnes says the animals are being removed from Neverland and placed in suitable homes. He explains, "We're being really, really fussy about where they go. We want the best possible environments. Michael is adamant about that." An African bull elephant, a female elephant, and the ranch's horses have also found new homes. Four giraffes, two orangutans and various parrots, reptiles and deer remain at Neverland.

It would cost a fortune and take a lot of time to put Neverland back into the state it was. Time they don't have & money they may not have.

[MoonHarvest]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjgGaXWNyqI

The Game ft. Chris Brown & Boyz II Men - Better on the other Side (MJ TRIBUTE)

I like this version on Pop Sugar better

http://www.popsugar.com/3379821

[VC2]

<snipped>

What's your theory on why all those erotica/porn mags & books were found during the search warrant?

I think the website Smoking Gun had the list way back when, don't know if they still have it - but for someone who has been repeatedly described as asexual, non-sexual, childlike, etc - he sure had plenty of sexually explicit material around. And IIRC, both his fingerprints & those of one or more of the boys were found on the pages.

and it wasn't kiddie porn. It was regular old stuff. Didn't you look at copies of friends dads playboy and stuff as a kid? I sure did. Good thing no one fingerprinted his because if that was the standard i suspect every second dad in the country would be under arrest. (well maybe not now because of the ease of porn on cable or the net)

I don't think anyone has said he was a child, but his enjoyment of being around kids was childlike and not sexual. I don't necessarily think he was completely asexual, more like my neighbor who is one of the first people i met who just did not want to have sex because of the mess of emotions and expectations etc. He was in no way asexual, just preferred to take care of things himself. MJ .. my goodness, can you imagine the tabloids if he used an escort? PLUS with his burns and scars i suspect he didn't want anyone to see them or even take a chance. It wasn't until now that anyone has talked about the fact his skull was burned and couldnt grow hair. I am sure MJ would want to take a chance on that appearing in the national enquirer for the sake of a half hour of sex. NOT. Unless they already had or were very very close friends he didn't have many options considering his wish for privacy and also his self esteem issues.

None of the above makes him a pedophile

IMO
IMO

[Mimi428]

There were porn mags on the ranch. So what?

A "Smoking Gun" article mentioned that strangely the boys recalled exactly a list of porn websites they've allegedly visited with MJ... but didn't recall important things like the timeline or number of molestations. You can bet they were given a list with porn websites...

"His exact recollection of which porno urls were surfed from Jackson's bedroom--not to mention the star's "Got Milk?" quip--is striking (and probably seen as incredible by defense lawyers)."

page 3
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/michaeljackson/010605jackson.html

I don't want to get deeper into the trial discussion anymore.

I'm not discussing the trial - I'm trying to figure out how a person who has repeatedly been described as having never grown up, as being a child in a man's body, as wanting nothing more than to live like a child, as a person who simply loved children - would have porn books, mags & videos all over his personal bedroom & bathroom. The same bedroom & the same bathroom where he had children in what seems to be pretty much constant attendance.

I don't particularly care about adults possessing & viewing legal porn. I do give a crap about adults making porn available to children.

http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=crime&cdn=newsissues&tm=15&gps=280_425_1003_599&f=20&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.thesmokinggun.com/michaeljackson/010605jacksonhouse.html

Pornographic magazines like Club, Barely Legal, and Couples were found in a leather bag next to the bathroom sink,in a box at the base of Jackson's bed,in a Samsonite briefcase, and inside the nightstand.Four "Barely Legal" DVDs and the hustler documentary "**** Up, Ho's Down" comprised his bedroom's video library on the November 2003 morning when investigators arrived unannounced...

Seized item #365 is described as "2 books of photographs of nude women and boys, located in master bedroom."

Jackson's bathroom,where he apparently spends quality time, yielded all sorts of interesting items, including open bottles of Jack Daniels and Pinot Noir, a book "containing nude photographs of men," two nude art magazines, and three "books containing nude photos in plastic bag."

[VC2]

Well I would be willing to bet that all three of his children knows what it means to be a child and enjoy life while they are.

Everyone that speaks of MJ that knew him on a personal basis said he was a very loving, caring and doting father to his children.

I think Steve Irwin represented what a true loving father and husband is supposed to be. That man exuded nothing but love.

imo

ITA!!!! i was so shocked at Steve's death, he adored his family and they adored him. Just like MJ and his kids.

IMO

[R~O~S]

Much of Jackson's money went to lawyers.

Not really, not by percentages. Michael liked spending, he always did.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/14/business/yourmoney/14michael.html

SEATED in a $9,000-a-night luxury suite in the sail-shaped Burj Al Arab hotel in Dubai, Michael Jackson played the role of a wealthy pop star as he met with two senior executives of the Sony Corporation last December. From the opulent setting to Mr. Jackson's retinue of advisers, there was little indication that Sony's troops were paying a visit because they were concerned that he was teetering on the brink of bankruptcy proceedings.

(skip)

"Millions of dollars annually were spent on plane charters, purchases of antiques and paintings," Mr. Malnik continued. "If you want to take a trip to London, that's one thing. If you want to continue that trip and have your entourage of 15 or 20 people go with you, it gets expensive."

It was Micheal's excesses that created the problem. His legal fees were manageable, but Michael wasn't watching anymore and his debts were out of control before he was even aware how bad it was. Granted, his legal fees didn't help, but they weren't the basis for the problem. The problem was already in full swing long before the massive legal fees. The legal fees are what brought the financial difficulties to the public's attention.

[legalmania]

I'm not discussing the trial - I'm trying to figure out how a person who has repeatedly been described as having never grown up, as being a child in a man's body, as wanting nothing more than to live like a child, as a person who simply loved children - would have porn books, mags & videos all over his personal bedroom & bathroom. The same bedroom & the same bathroom where he had children in what seems to be pretty much constant attendance.

I don't particularly care about adults possessing & viewing legal porn. I do give a crap about adults making porn available to children.

http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=crime&cdn=news issues tm=15&gps=280_425_1003_599&f=20&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.thesmokinggun.com/michaeljackson/010605jacksonhouse.html

Pornographic magazines like Club, Barely Legal, and Couples were found in a leather bag next to the bathroom sink,in a box at the base of Jackson's bed,in a Samsonite briefcase, and inside the nightstand.Four "Barely Legal" DVDs and the hustler documentary "**** Up, Ho's Down" comprised his bedroom's video library on the November 2003 morning when investigators arrived unannounced...

Seized item #365 is described as "2 books of photographs of nude women and boys, located in master bedroom."

Jackson's bathroom,where he apparently spends quality time, yielded all sorts of interesting items, including open bottles of Jack Daniels and Pinot Noir, a book "containing nude photographs of men," two nude art magazines, and three "books containing nude photos in plastic bag."

Porn is a multi billion dollar business, I know at least some of the customers are fathers and good fathers. If we arrested everyone who bought those magazines or videos the prison system would drown more than it already is. I think the children made Michael grow up real quick. It was what he needed.

[Mimi428]

and it wasn't kiddie porn. It was regular old stuff.

I don't think anyone has said he was a child, but his enjoyment of being around kids was childlike and not sexual.

None of the above makes him a pedophile

IMO


Where did you get the idea it was all 'regular stuff'? Nude pix of pre-pubescent boys is hardly 'regular stuff'.

What do you know about pedophiles in the first place? Do you know any? Have you had to deal with any, on a personal or professional basis? Can you give educated advice to others on what to look for in regards to 'grooming' behavior towards the children or the families of the children?

The adults that I have known who have possessed & kept erotica or porn do not keep them in a location easily accessible to children.

I haven't kept constant watch on every channel to hear the discussions, but I have heard over the past couple of days (might have been LKL) MJ referred to - more than once - as a child in a man's body.

When I was a kid, any exposure to erotica or porn was after a concerted hunt to find it in the first place. It sure wasn't left in a bathroom we used or a bedroom where any of us slept.

[Mimi428]

Why are we dredging up the trial again? The books that were confiscated were considered porn by some and art by others. Many of them were gifts including from Elizabeth Taylor. Most of the books were packed away and no child saw them - but what is the big deal ? :shrug:

Since when have Hustler DVDs been considered 'art'?

Did you actually read this part?

Pornographic magazines like Club, Barely Legal, and Couples were found in a leather bag next to the bathroom sink, in a box at the base of Jackson's bed ,in a Samsonite briefcase, and inside the nightstand. Four "Barely Legal" DVDs and the hustler documentary "P*I*M*P*s Up, Ho's Down" comprised his bedroom's video library on the November 2003 morning when investigators arrived unannounced...

Seized item #365 is described as "2 books of photographs of nude women and boys, located in master bedroom."

Jackson's bathroom, where he apparently spends quality time, yielded all sorts of interesting items, including open bottles of Jack Daniels and Pinot Noir, a book "containing nude photographs of men," two nude art magazines, and three "books containing nude photos in plastic bag."

Would you allow your child to be repeatedly exposed to all of that? If so, why?

[legalmania]

Just a quick post before I head out to work. Elvis was in debt when he died. It was only the work of Pricilla that put the estate in the black after Elvis' death.

I hope there is someone in MJ's life to do the same. However, I'm afraid that all those family, "friends" etc that surrounded MJ were sychohants who leeched off him.

I believe that the Jackson family will turn this sad situation into a very ugly fight for money.

You say that before you run off to work. I don't agree, the Jackson family have their own money. I think Mrs. Jackson is a very classy lady and has kept the family together. Whenever there is a family fight she finds a way to help them talk it out. She has never let money come between them and I don't think she will let them start now especially after the loss of her son.

[R~O~S]

Why are we dredging up the trial again? The books that were confiscated were considered porn by some and art by others. Many of them were gifts including from Elizabeth Taylor. Most of the books were packed away and no child saw them - but what is the big deal ? :shrug:


That's why most of us are ignoring the attempts to bring this topic there. I've already expressed my thanks to the posters here who've been respectful and informative while struggling with the natural differences of opinion.

This is not the time nor the place. Michael will be judged now by the only being who should, it's not our place and he was acquitted of all charges here on earth.

[who_is_it]

The title of this board is disturbing to me. Am I the only one? "Michael Jackson Expires"

What was he, a carton of milk?

i wondered about the title, too, but my native language isn't english. therefore i thought it's maybe just me who doesn't know one could use "expired" for people as well.

:unsure:

[legalmania]

The title of this board is disturbing to me. Am I the only one? "Michael Jackson Expires"

What was he, a carton of milk?

I found that a little tacky myself. Expire is not a word I associate with death. Maybe if you want you could write CW and see if she could change it to something more appropriate.

[who_is_it]

Since when have Hustler DVDs been considered 'art'?

Did you actually read this part?

Pornographic magazines like Club, Barely Legal, and Couples were found in a leather bag next to the bathroom sink, in a box at the base of Jackson's bed ,in a Samsonite briefcase, and inside the nightstand. Four "Barely Legal" DVDs and the hustler documentary "P*I*M*P*s Up, Ho's Down" comprised his bedroom's video library on the November 2003 morning when investigators arrived unannounced...

Seized item #365 is described as "2 books of photographs of nude women and boys, located in master bedroom."

Jackson's bathroom, where he apparently spends quality time, yielded all sorts of interesting items, including open bottles of Jack Daniels and Pinot Noir, a book "containing nude photographs of men," two nude art magazines, and three "books containing nude photos in plastic bag."

Would you allow your child to be repeatedly exposed to all of that? If so, why?

Everyone knows that Michael didn't have many girlfriends.

Sexual needs - even if it's just porn as a substitute - are natural.

[R~O~S]

Didn't argue with you -- just added to your list much of MJ's money went to legal fees. Sorry legal fees are NOT manageable -- do you realize how many times MJ has been sued and whether right or wrong you have to hire a lawyer and they get paid by the HOUR.

Hope no one here ever gets involved with a civil suit. Neighbor and myself had a property dispute that went to court for 4 days but I had to lay out $22,000 legal fees to protect something that was already mine. Court awarded us costs -- but there is no enforcement. You still then have to get another lawyer to collect your money.
Our property dispute should have never had to go to court - since both of our surveys were in agreement. Stupid neighbor just didn't know how to read it. grrr This is exactly why some people will choose to settle rather than go to court even if it is clear that one party is right. In my case we couldn't settle because I was not giving them any of my property.

Althena, it's a five page article. Give it a read. Michael's legal fees were not the problem, they were minuscule in comparison to his earnings and proportionate to what anyone of his stature would have paid as a course of doing/maintaining business.

By the time he was going to trial and incurring extraordinary legal fees that wouldn't be a part of normal business he was already in dire straights financially.

They didn't help, they also weren't the problem.

[sallemae]

I liked the tribute and do believe it's better for him on the other side.

[Avalon]

And, as I predicted last night despite people who said this was just a rumor, Dr. Murray has not yet spoken to LAPD and would be lawyered-up when he did.

He hired a Houston law firm and supposedly is speaking to LAPD at 4 PM PDT.

[Avalon]

Jesse Jackson all over the doctor on CNN.....

[VC2]

SNIP

When I was a kid, any exposure to erotica or porn was after a concerted hunt to find it in the first place. It sure wasn't left in a bathroom we used or a bedroom where any of us slept.

well at least you admit you hunted for it :laugh:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I found that a little tacky myself. Expire is not a word I associate with death. Maybe if you want you could write CW and see if she could change it to something more appropriate.

Actually, it is a term we use in the "Healthcare Business"..kind of clinical..but says it all..In the past decade or so, the word "Passed" is more common. So, if the term offends alot of posters, maybe CW will alter the title ..to something more soft..less clinical..

When I read it, I blinked..however prefer it to "Dies"..Thats me tho??

LMS:blushing:

[Nic99]

That's why most of us are ignoring the attempts to bring this topic there. I've already expressed my thanks to the posters here who've been respectful and informative while struggling with the natural differences of opinion.

This is not the time nor the place. Michael will be judged now by the only being who should, it's not our place and he was acquitted of all charges here on earth.

ITA agree with that; gee what is it with people.

MJ was a true icon and music genius and I watched an interview on BBC last night and they were comparing the reaction to his death as on a par with Princess Di and far bigger in all their opinions than even Elvis; this is bigger. MJ's music will continue to be played 100 years from now they were saying and it will still be as fresh to the listeners as the day it was made. His music and style never dates and he was someone that they believed we will never see regarding their totality of talent, again. We are all truly blessed to have lived in his lifetime and enjoyed it and I was really looking forward to seeing him at the O2 arena this year, but some things are not meant to be.

Rest in Peace Michael' you were found innocent for good reason; lets leave it at that and enjoy your music you gifted us.

[Mimi428]

This is not the time nor the place. Michael will be judged now by the only being who should, it's not our place and he was acquitted of all charges here on earth.

<snipped>

You know, I read something earlier today from someone who had no problem whatsoever 'judging' the man to be a fabulous humanitarian, an overall good person, a genius, etc. Then after they did all of that, they went on a regular diatribe about how wrong 'judging' was. Classic irony, imo.

Seems like there is a huge double standard when it comes to the subject of 'judging'. I get the notion that as long as you 'judge' him in a positive way, it's all fine, well & good.

But if you really do not believe any commentary should be made about the man (which is a form of 'judging') - so be it. I would certainly hope no one would attempt to force you to write anything about him or anyone else.

[who_is_it]

Technically it is not incorrect, however, it is not a term that is used in civilized dicussion of death by lay people. It may be used in a clinical setting ie: the patient expired at 12:08 PM of cardiac arrest... Otherwise it's pretty cold-hearted.

i just knew "passport expired" or "frequent flyer miles expired".

thanx for the explanation that it's just used in a clinical setting. actually the thread title should be changed into "passed away".

[Dunlurken]

On HLN now, the family is moving the belongings out of the house. A second autopsy has been requested by the family. The remains are in an undisclosed location. JMO.

[Dunlurken]

Did they state why a second autopsy?

No, not yet.

[Cardinal]

Here's the whole GQ article about the Jordy Chandler debacle. It gives, what Paul Harvey would say, "The rest of the story.":

http://www.buttonmonkey.com/misc/maryfischer.html

Thanks very much for this link. Well-written story and many things I hadn't previously known.

From your link:

"But it is possible to take an in-depth look at the people who made the allegations against Jackson and thus gain insight into their character and motives. What emerges from such an examination, based on court documents, business records and scores of interviews, is a persuasive argument that Jackson molested no one and that he himself may have been the victim of a well-conceived plan to extract money from him."

[Dunlurken]

Thanks very much for this link. Well-written story and many things I hadn't previously known.

From your link:

"But it is possible to take an in-depth look at the people who made the allegations against Jackson and thus gain insight into their character and motives. What emerges from such an examination, based on court documents, business records and scores of interviews, is a persuasive argument that Jackson molested no one and that he himself may have been the victim of a well-conceived plan to extract money from him."

That's why he was found not guilty. JMO.

[legalmania]

i just knew "passport expired" or "frequent flyer miles expired".

thanx for the explanation that it's just used in a clinical setting. actually the thread title should be changed into "passed away".

Ya but even in the hospital they say,call it time of death is 10:42. Then they come out and say he didn't make it.

[VC2]

hmm this could get a little messy all over the place.

I hope for everyone's sake the AP's source is correct and it was a heart attack. The last thing needed is more opportunities for blame.

Jackson never communicated to his family who he had in place to handle his business affairs, the person said, adding that they were told by the singer's phalanx of advisers that the singer likely had a will, but it may be many years old. The family is distrustful of what they are being told — but they are determined to find out more, the person said.
"There are decisions going down without the family being in the loop; it's becoming an issue," the person said.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529245,00.html


Didn't DiLeo say there was a will?

in the article AEG also says they had multiple insurance policies in place for show cancellation but that it was going to depend on the toxicology and COD.

ouch. I hope its not due to recreational drug use, that there was some reason to give them if that was the cause, because otherwise couldn't the estate be liable if death due to drug overdose voids the insurance?

[legalmania]

God help the doctor that tells the family that their loved one just expired.


I know I shouldn't be laughing but that is just to funny, or your loved one is dust in the wind.

[Avalon]

Jesse Jackson is only repeating the family's concerns, which are: why the doctor didn't sign the death certif, didn't speak to the coroner, goes missing and when he does resurface, is lawyered-up. And they want their own independent autopsy.

[ABC]

Graceland is open year round and brings in mega millions each year. The lines are the longest during his birthday in January and on the anniversary week when he died in August but it is a steady stream of people from all over the world even on a regular day. LOL Can ya tell I have been there a few times?:laugh:

Neverland should also be opened year round.

imo
My kids took me to Graceland on a Mother's Day weekend. They bought the most expensive ticket, saw everything and it was wonderful. We ate on Beall Street and listened to music.
I,too. think it would be grand to have Neverland open all the time for the kids, with rides, the train, the zoo, etc. I think that would be a wonderful money maker and sick kids get in for free. Who actually owns Neverland now?
I think it was obvious that Michael was a frail and fragile guy. I am not surprised at age 50, dancing with the energy he put out, would induce a heart attack.
Of course the Doctor was in no position to sign the Death Certificate. Those who die suddenly, accidents, murdered, etc have their autopsy done by the coroner. LAPD say the Doctor is cooperating and not a suspect.

[Dunlurken]

MJ was a music genius but his death doesn't change the fact that no parent in their right mind would allow their child to spent time with MJ alone. The guy was beyond eccentric, his behavior explains his nickname IMO.
Okay, I'll bite. Unless the mother wanted money. JMO.

[Cardinal]

That's why he was found not guilty. JMO.

I think so too. I also think Janet Arvizo was looking for the same payoff that Chandler got.

[VC2]

MJ was a music genius but his death doesn't change the fact that no parent in their right mind would allow their child to spent time with MJ alone. The guy was beyond eccentric, his behavior explains his nickname IMO.

Deepak Chopra let his kids spend the night for sleepovers at MJ's and his son went on tour with him one year.

I dont consider him to be out of his right mind.

IMO

[Lyndawitha"Y]

God help the doctor that tells the family that their loved one just expired.

The Informing any family of a death, there is always people there to support them..including a nurse who attended the deceased...Having been in that position, so many times, I recall many different ways of informing the family ..It all depends on the family dynamic..sometimes no words have to be spoken,,like "Im sorry"..or Yes, He/She is gone..or He/she passed..Or we were unable to Bring Him/Her back..But the most common term we used was "Passed"...Expire is just a clinical term ( old fashioned) used in documentation..

LMS:blushing:

[Avalon]

I think that Neverland idea is a good one, if there would be sufficient revenue to operate it. I think some investors may own it now.

Also, some big tribute concert would probably be a big money-maker, don't you think? It's like I can't get enough of his music, now that he's gone so tragically....and seeing it on Youtube isn't quite cutting it.

[bkwits]

<snipped>

Emotionally child like - or a fantastic father?

You can't be both. Fantastic parents are not emotionally childlike. Adults who remain emotionally childlike are not good parents.

JMO

I agree. Notice that interview where he is feeding "blanket" and continuously shaking and jiggling the baby while giving him a bottle. The poor baby prob got sick from all that shaking while being fed. :sad:

[Dunlurken]

Hello? That's what I've been saying. That is why this this board's title is inappropriate.

I agree with you. When I started thread #3, I didn't want to get slapped by CW, so I went with the title of the other threads. Someone needs to send CW an e-mail and ask her to change the title. Not me, though. :laugh:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Hello? That's what I've been saying. That is why this this board's title is inappropriate.

Hello?? and I totally agree with ya..I was only explaining the term..and what it means to myself..and not meaning to argue..

Sorry, I was only attempting to give some rationale to the word being inserted to the Thread Title..I am sorry if I offended you

LMS

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I agree. Notice that interview where he is feeding "blanket" and continuously shaking and jiggling the baby while giving him a bottle. The poor baby prob got sick from all that shaking while being fed. :sad:

Sorry, maybe be OT..but your discription just reminded me of "OctoMom"..and her constant jiggling of her babies...LOL Sorry..

LMS ( give me a smack!)

[Avalon]

This is a gorgeous slideshow of a vacant Neverland....it's currently owned by an LLC that is partially owned by MJ and Colony Capital LLC.....


http://www.flickr.com/photos/tunnelbug/sets/72157603558879859/show/

[R~O~S]

As per TMZ........a second autopsy will be performed. The family wants answers.

They're saying it's already underway:

http://www.tmz.com/

A source close to the family of Michael Jackson tells TMZ the family has requested a second autopsy -- and it is currently underway somewhere in Los Angeles.

No explanation as to why, but I would imagine they'd want to be certain there are no questions left unanswered before they lay him to rest. I'm sure they have someone very well respected and competent conducting it.

I can't imagine how painful it would be to have a loved one exhumed.

[Avalon]

Hey, what was Liza implying last night when she said to MJ, "Why didn't you tell me!" (about David Gest)....MJ said, "I thought you knew".....seemed like the implication was that Gest was on the other team but why would she have expected MJ to recognize that....? Or am I mis-interpreting what she said?

[legalmania]

Hey, what was Liza implying last night when she said to MJ, "Why didn't you tell me!" (about David Gest)....MJ said, "I thought you knew".....seemed like the implication was that Gest was on the other team but why would she have expected MJ to recognize that....? Or am I mis-interpreting what she said?

She also said something that had me wondering, she said "that we'll find out how he died (expired) and then all hell would break loose"?

[Jupiter]

Everyone knows that Michael didn't have many girlfriends.

Sexual needs - even if it's just porn as a substitute - are natural.


If the walls in his bedroom could talk...

[fastpitch]

So, someone is already over at Jackson's house, moving everything out?

That is a huge mansion. I wonder if it came furnished or if he had furnished every room, in his odd way. MOO

It would be difficult for someone to clear out my house, quickly. I can't imagine that mansion. Maybe the rent is up on Tues.?

Anyway, it kinda sounds like what my mother would do (bless her sole), anything that was valuable would be gone and "tucked away" before the day was over.

I guess his mom and dad are the next of kin? But still, they just can't take stuff.

[legalmania]

My comment: MICHAEL JACKSON / NOT GUILTY


THE ANATOMY OF A SCAM

Part I: The Anatomy of a Scam

In January 2000, a woman named Janet Arvizo consulted with a civil lawyer about suing Michael Jackson for having allegedly molested her son.1 This would have been the second child molestation lawsuit filed against Jackson, the first being the result of sexual abuse allegations that were made by a 13-year-old boy in 1993.

The problem, however, is that in January 2000, Janet Arvizo had never met Michael Jackson; neither had her son. In fact, it would still be another seven months before Jackson would even be introduced to the Arvizo family.

http://surftofind.com/seminal1


Oh ya she is just such a hottie that the security guard couldn't resist.

[n/t]

So, someone is already over at Jackson's house, moving everything out?

That is a huge mansion. I wonder if it came furnished or if he had furnished every room, in his odd way. MOO

It would be difficult for someone to clear out my house, quickly. I can't imagine that mansion. Maybe the rent is up on Tues.?

Anyway, it kinda sounds like what my mother would do (bless her sole), anything that was valuable would be gone and "tucked away" before the day was over.

I guess his mom and dad are the next of kin? But still, they just can't take stuff.


Maybe they're taking the childrens stuff?

[Nic99]

Why would they want a second autopsy? The Jackson family was well aware of MJs drug use. It was no secret among them. All they have to do is look at his heft pharmacy bill as well.

It isn't legal for one Dr. to prescribe all those narcotics. Who else was prescribing them?

imo

Because they love their son and want a second opinion. I see no problem with that. I would want the same if I had doubts and would want to be sure in my mind; this is their only chance and they need it and they should have it.

RIP Michael

[FallenAngel♥]

FOX just said the Jackson family want a second autopsy.
I'm glad they are doing this.......I hope we find out something in the next few days.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Maybe they're taking the childrens stuff?

I think it is suffice to say, that removing personal property is in order, as this is a "Rental Property"...and it's not like the Jackson family are doing it entirely themselves..unlike most regualr people..

I also think, the Property owner's would prefer to have things removed for security purposes..there are thousands of nutso's out there who would just love to break in there and take some momento..

Man..I almost fell over..Rental..$100,000.00 a month..yikes!!

LMS

[FallenAngel♥]

Hi Fallen Angel - a link above says the 2nd autopsy is already underway.

Oh great. sorry i just got home from wallyworld and turn on the news.
Dr Kobilinsky just said the tox report should only take a couple of days.

[who_is_it]

I saw this too on the news. He hasn't been dead for more than a day and they are already moving him out? Guess they can't afford $100,000 a month=furnished mansion.

Wonder if this was month to month or a lease?

no matter what the reason is: they definitely could afford it. it's raining money now.

[legalmania]

Because they love their son and want a second opinion. I see no problem with that. I would want the same if I had doubts and would want to be sure in my mind; this is their only chance and they need it and they should have it.

RIP Michael

What did they find with the first autopsy?

[Avalon]

I forget if I asked this, but how did the family manage to get the body out at 9 PM last night with no photos or procession? Think the paps were just being respectful? Nahhh, that doesn't seem possible. They must've snuck it out somehow. Not like it was a huge body; probably could've been easily hidden.

[Beau Zach]

I liked the tribute and do believe it's better for him on the other side.

Don't you think it's better for everybody on the other side, though?

[FallenAngel♥]

IMO this says it all.........


"All those who knew him well really know what he was like, and I'm sure that now the accolades are going and I'm sure when the autopsy comes, all hell's going to break loose. So thank God we're celebrating him now."

- Liza Minnelli told the CBS Early Show on Friday, about her good friend Michael Jackson

[Nic99]

You're doing fine carry on.

Ditto, ignore is your friend with some posters.

[sunstar]

They're saying it's already underway:

http://www.tmz.com/



No explanation as to why, but I would imagine they'd want to be certain there are no questions left unanswered before they lay him to rest. I'm sure they have someone very well respected and competent conducting it.

I can't imagine how painful it would be to have a loved one exhumed.

I think they probably just want to make sure there were no mistakes during the Coroner's autopsy, and the family lawyer has been inferring some foul play as far as the drugs are concerned. Wouldn't the family also be able to do toxicology tests at a private lab and maybe get the results sooner?

[Avalon]

LKL's having an MJ tribute show tonight. Sounds like the same guests as last night -- minus Deepak Chopra, LOL.

[FallenAngel♥]

She knew his drug use is what I think when I read that. imo

yep ITA....

[Nic99]

IMO this says it all.........


"All those who knew him well really know what he was like, and I'm sure that now the accolades are going and I'm sure when the autopsy comes, all hell's going to break loose. So thank God we're celebrating him now."

- Liza Minnelli told the CBS Early Show on Friday, about her good friend Michael Jackson

FGS Michael Jackson was a legend and gave US the privilege of his music and dance and living in his time. We should be thankful for that, I know I am.

[R~O~S]

Oh great. sorry i just got home from wallyworld and turn on the news.
Dr Kobilinsky just said the tox report should only take a couple of days.


Now that's the most justifiable & logical reason I can think of to have it done.

They'll have those private lab results in no time, where as waiting on the state lab will take 4-6 weeks.

I still think even without that reason it's a good idea. How many times have we seen the state coroner make mistakes or come to conclusions that aren't necessarily undisputed? I would rather it be done now rather than having to exhume the body after burial.

That article we had posted on Current Crimes not too long ago about funeral homes returning bodies to the ME because they found evidence of homicide when the ME said natural death is the only reason they should need.

http://teamsugar.com/group/3040631/blog/3228349

It was the second time in 17 months that a Kansas City funeral home returned a homicide victim's body mistakenly ruled a natural death by the medical examiner's office.

The other case was in September 2007 and involved Lorraine Grayson, 77, who had been beaten and sexually assaulted in her home. Police later found out that Grayson's purse was missing and her 46-year-old neighbor was charged with her death.

[Mimi428]

What do you think they are hoping to find?
I wouldn't answer for FA, but I personally think they are hoping to find a scapegoat.

Somebody, anybody, something, anything that will allow them to promote the idea that Michael's death was so out of the ordinary, so unexpected, that it could never be said that he contributed to his own demise.

JMO

[Lyndawitha"Y]

What did they find with the first autopsy?

The only thing they said that there was no sign of foul play..such as trauma to the body,...the rest will hinge of the Toxicology results..which the spokeerson suggested 4-6 weeks..

As for the family doing there own autopsy??Who knows?..maybe they want to find evidence of "Natural Causes"..there is alot hinging on his COD..Insurance policies and so on!!

LMS

[legalmania]

FGS Michael Jackson was a legend and gave US the privilege of his music and dance and living in his time. We should be thankful for that, I know I am.

Speaking of music I think it's time for a song :



----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Dangerous (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/dangerous)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[Cardinal]

My comment: MICHAEL JACKSON / NOT GUILTY

Again many of us who were fair and objective while following MJ's trial already knew this information and this article just confirms what we have said and believed all along. IMO false allegations contributed to the early death of MJ due to its overwhelming stress.

~respectfully snipped~

http://surftofind.com/seminal1

Thanks for this link, Athena. Very enlightening, I must say. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if those false allegations contributed to his death. They must have taken quite a toll.

[who_is_it]

<snipped>

His very popularity made him a sitting duck as did some of his own bad judgement, but when someone is the biggest entertainer in the world at the time and one of the wealthiest, its no surprise that some targeted him. Unfortunately he also made it easy for them in many ways.

imo

i think he was an easier target than other big and wealthy celebrities because his personality was vulnerable. unlike other celebs he was never offensive, not even enough defensive.

furthermore i think michael jackson wasn't a good business man.

[R~O~S]

Raining money? Where? MJ didn't have any. He was and still is in the hole for 400 million dollars. Whatever MJs estate had will go to the creditors. The investors for these concerts need to be paid too.

imo

If what I just heard on CNN is accurate, the tour promoters took all of his $400M debt in exchange for the tour. Couple that with the tour spokesman saying the insurance policies on the tour have an exclusion clause related to drugs, this is going to get very nasty.

It all depends on how the contract is written. Are they on the hook for the $400M in debt because rehearsals were already underway? Are they still on the hook if the exclusion clause causes the policies to not pay?

There is a lot riding on that tox report and it extends way beyond Michael and the children.

Billy Sullivan lost his ownership in the NE Patriots because of a failed Jackson tour.

[Avalon]

CNN just showed a clip of that "Scream" video with Janet. I never liked that video -- too angry and kind of scary.

[Nic99]

Thanks for this link, Athena. Very enlightening, I must say. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if those false allegations contributed to his death. They must have taken quite a toll.

ITA with that. He was found innocent of the charges and, as has been said before, he was an easy target to some. BUT he was innocent and was making a comeback and it is so sad that we weren't able to rejoice and witness that. I had tickets booked for the O2 arena show, cos I missed the show at Wembley 20 years ago and boy, was I looking foward to that. He was an icon and god bless him.

[who_is_it]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...They will blame the doctors.

Dr. Murray and Dr. Thome Thome.

I'm not so sure that the missing Dr. yesterday wasn't Dr. Thome Thome and not Dr. Murray.

imo

i don't get what you meant by your last sentence.

dr. murray is very unlucky. he just worked for him 11 days... and then THIS happened.

they should stop to blame the doctors. dr. murray was michael's choice.

it's tragical what happened but one can't change it by shifting blame on anyone.

[Avalon]

If what I just heard on CNN is accurate, the tour promoters took all of his $400M debt in exchange for the tour. Couple that with the tour spokesman saying the insurance policies on the tour have an exclusion clause related to drugs, this is going to get very nasty.

Maybe there's a specific performance clause -- so if the concerts don't come off, it voids the contract and their responsibility for the debt. OR, maybe I watch too much Court TV.

[Mayasmimi]

Made me cry.

I need to get away from the computer and TV some today.

[doctor_J]

Legalmania--I got a request-----Speaking of the Beatles and Mj last night. Got "Come Together"???

[R~O~S]

Speaking of music I think it's time for a song :



----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Dangerous (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/dangerous)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

I'm feeling really left out here. Am I supposed to click on something when this page opens? I really want to see/hear what you're posting but what I get is a page listing lyrics and various titles, no sound or video. :sad:

I'm really not dumb, I just don't understand the page.

[VC2]

As per TMZ........a second autopsy will be performed. The family wants answers.

the LAPD put a "security hold' on the autopsy findings, so i bet even they were not told what was or was not found.

No wonder they want a second one.