911 call - weird...

[who_is_it]

here you can listen to the 911 call:

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-the-911-call

what seems weird to me is that the staff member didn't say: "it's michael jackson!" he didn't mention his name. for sure the ambulance should arrive as fast as possible for every human being... but in SUCH a situation i would have tried to increase pressure by the famous name to get maximum help asap.

but maybe the guy just wanted to avoid media attention by not mentioning mj.

[Lyvia]

Just off the top of my head, I think it was wise not to give the name. It didn't matter and every second before the media/public got wind of it, the better.

Whoever was on the phone was someone I wouldn't mind having around. (sounded like a staff member, rather than family member, imo). He stayed pretty calm, but you can tell he was shaken.

[Lyvia]

If that was Randy, dang, does he ever deserve credit for holding it together for that call.

[4Life]

here you can listen to the 911 call:

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-the-911-call

what seems weird to me is that the staff member didn't say: "it's michael jackson!" he didn't mention his name. for sure the ambulance should arrive as fast as possible for every human being... but in SUCH a situation i would have tried to increase pressure by the famous name to get maximum help asap.

but maybe the guy just wanted to avoid media attention by not mentioning mj.

The 911 call came in at 12:21 and the EMTs were at the home at 12:30

Pretty fast imo

[MoonHarvest]

The 911 call is a big ah-oh for the Dr with Jackson, imo.

What a sad life. The poor children.:sad:

[Topaz]

My impression was that there was no urgency in the voice.

At a doctor's office if you develop a serious thing like this, they call 911 before they do ANYTHING. Then they do the emergency CPR waiting for the EMS.

It sounded to me like the male on the phone just needed a "bus" to carry the body. The responsibility of the official call of death, was not wanted by the attending physician! Who now has become unavailable?

Demerol is very problematic when used frequently. It interacts with other drugs and can cause seizures and respiratory depression with no warning.

[who_is_it]

My impression was that there was no urgency in the voice.

At a doctor's office if you develop a serious thing like this, they call 911 before they do ANYTHING. Then they do the emergency CPR waiting for the EMS.

It sounded to me like the male on the phone just needed a "bus" to carry the body. The responsibility of the official call of death, was not wanted by the attending physician! Who now has become unavailable?

Demerol is very problematic when used frequently. It interacts with other drugs and can cause seizures and respiratory depression with no warning.


@ "no urgency in the voice":

it now surfaced that it was already clear that michael has died. the reason why he was transported to hospital, though, was that the doc wanted it. (maybe that someone else but him confirms the death that he can't be blamed.)

"Medics took over performing CPR but determined Jackson was lifeless -- and wanted to call the coroner to pick up the body. We're told Jackson was flat-lined when EMTs arrived. But our sources say M.J.'s doc demanded EMTs continue performing CPR anyway, and demanded that they take Michael to the hospital."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/emergency-workers-felt-jackson-dead-at-scene/

[funkyflower]

"Pumping him" ....that part all in itself causes great concern. It seems too common and casual of a term. It seems like a term that people who are in the medical field would use commonly. It makes me wonder if they've had to bring him back from an "episode" or OD on more than one occasion. My guess would be they have. Especially since his personal physician was a cardiologist. Why would the MD perform it on the bed anyway?
This personal physician, IMO, was responsible for not only giving him drugs, but for keeping him alive and keeping it private.
MY guess, is this was not the first time for sure and they were able to keep it out of hospitals and media until this final time.

[funkyflower]

Dr. Ghapta (sp?) who is used by media for speculation said last night that if MJ had gone into cardiac arrest that the only thing that would have saved him was a defillibrator (electronic) and had to be used within 5 minutes. He said CPRs are performed on people who have heart attacks and said there is a big difference.

(Not a medical person here - just repeating what was said)


CPR is used to keep the heart artificially pumping and oxygen supplied till the heart can be defibbed if its under arrest.
Its hard to believe that a person can own anything, no pun intended, his heart desired, but didn't have his own debillibrator.
Who knows, maybe he did, and it'll come out later on but it just didn't work.

[aproudmom]

CPR is used to keep the heart artificially pumping and oxygen supplied till the heart can be defibbed if its under arrest.
Its hard to believe that a person can own anything, no pun intended, his heart desired, but didn't have his own debillibrator.
Who knows, maybe he did, and it'll come out later on but it just didn't work.

pretty much anyone can get a Defibrillator these days not sure why a cardiologist was there seems odd unless he had heart problems..but what I found it odd you do not do CPR on a bed that Dr. should have had him pulled to the floor before it was even ask by the 911 operator..I guess we shall see I am sure alot will come out heck heard the Dr. was MIA that was not true...they said he was already cold at the time of arrival do not know if that is true...

[ABC]

@ "no urgency in the voice":

it now surfaced that it was already clear that michael has died. the reason why he was transported to hospital, though, was that the doc wanted it. (maybe that someone else but him confirms the death that he can't be blamed.)

"Medics took over performing CPR but determined Jackson was lifeless -- and wanted to call the coroner to pick up the body. We're told Jackson was flat-lined when EMTs arrived. But our sources say M.J.'s doc demanded EMTs continue performing CPR anyway, and demanded that they take Michael to the hospital."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/emergency-workers-felt-jackson-dead-at-scene/
EMT's are not enpowered to determine whether a patient is dead or alive. They have to take all patients to the hospital and only a Physican can determine whether or not a person is dead. This story is bogus and not in line with EMT polices and proceedures which are done under Physician guidelines. Coroner says NO FOUL PLAY.

[Avalon]

I thought maybe the 911 caller was his assistant. If it was Randy, would he have known the address of a rented home right off the top of his head?

This sounds exactly like the Anna Nicole scenario. She's found not breathing, the staff frantically tries to revive her but does not call 911 immediately so as not to alert the press. Valuable time is lost. And if this doctor had just given him the shot that took him down, he'd for sure not want to alert police or press.

I can't believe there are still doctors willing to enable these celebs' over-use of painkillers, after what happened with ANS.

[LisaM22]

I wonder if he had one of those HeartStart Home Defibrillator if he may have made it?

http://www.heartstarthome.com/animated_demo/demo.asp

[CinderL.]

The person on the phone kept saying he isn't breathing, and the operator asked, "Is he conscious ?" Can you be conscious and not breathing???

[who_is_it]

I thought maybe the 911 caller was his assistant. If it was Randy, would he have known the address of a rented home right off the top of his head?

This sounds exactly like the Anna Nicole scenario. She's found not breathing, the staff frantically tries to revive her but does not call 911 immediately so as not to alert the press. Valuable time is lost. And if this doctor had just given him the shot that took him down, he'd for sure not want to alert police or press.

<snipped>



You don't have to forget one aspect: The stars don't want the publicity being found unconscious, drugged up etc. The staff is in a dilemma to call medical help immediately and to avoid publicity (which causes a scandal). So they maybe wait too long... and in the end it's tragically too late.

Imagine they call medical help "in vain"... and in the end there's a media scandal. Then they are blamed, maybe even fired.

[who_is_it]

I got the impression MJ had done this before, but had been revived. The Dr. had the ambulance summoned only after it was obvious he would not be able to handle the situation.

By what / why did you get the impression?

[Mamie]

My impression was that there was no urgency in the voice.

At a doctor's office if you develop a serious thing like this, they call 911 before they do ANYTHING. Then they do the emergency CPR waiting for the EMS.

It sounded to me like the male on the phone just needed a "bus" to carry the body. The responsibility of the official call of death, was not wanted by the attending physician! Who now has become unavailable?

Demerol is very problematic when used frequently. It interacts with other drugs and can cause seizures and respiratory depression with no warning.


I don't understand why the doctor didn't have him on the floor! I just can't understand that. The caller had to be in the room or see that MJ was in the bed, but everybody knows if you are giving CPR, for chest compressions, the subject needs to be on the floor or a table or some other hard surface------so I think the good doctor must have known that MJ was beyond hope and had been for awhile, anyway. JMO

[Mamie]

pretty much anyone can get a Defibrillator these days not sure why a cardiologist was there seems odd unless he had heart problems..but what I found it odd you do not do CPR on a bed that Dr. should have had him pulled to the floor before it was even ask by the 911 operator..I guess we shall see I am sure alot will come out heck heard the Dr. was MIA that was not true...they said he was already cold at the time of arrival do not know if that is true...


I agree with you, mom, and just said the same thing about MJ needing to be on the floor for CPR, but that tells me that he was already gone. And I thought I also heard on some taped shows either NG or JVM right now, that the doctor lived with MJ? I guess the circumstances of that will come out soon, too.

[GentleBreeze]

Dr. Ghapta (sp?) who is used by media for speculation said last night that if MJ had gone into cardiac arrest that the only thing that would have saved him was a defillibrator (electronic) and had to be used within 5 minutes. He said CPRs are performed on people who have heart attacks and said there is a big difference.

(Not a medical person here - just repeating what was said)

There was another doctor on today, I believe on HLN, and he said sometimes you just cant save them even if you are standing right there when it happens, no matter what is done.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I agree with you, mom, and just said the same thing about MJ needing to be on the floor for CPR, but that tells me that he was already gone. And I thought I also heard on some taped shows either NG or JVM right now, that the doctor lived with MJ? I guess the circumstances of that will come out soon, too.

From what I read the doctor came to stay with MJ about 2 weeks ago. He was hired by the ones who were in charge of the tour that MJ was going to do.

imo

[HandInCookieJar]

Can you be conscious and not breathing???

Sure, if you're choking on a chicken bone.

[2boysMom]

There is an emergency rescue drug called Narcan that reverses the effects of narcotics. It's always kept on hand in medical settings where heavy narcotic use occurs. I would think the MD giving MJ the Narcotics would have had some available. If MJ died from narcotic overdose he could have been saved if someone had Narcanned him right away when symptoms became evident.

Sorry if this has been discussed already.

[MissElainyS]

I wonder if he had one of those HeartStart Home Defibrillator if he may have made it?

http://www.heartstarthome.com/animated_demo/demo.asp

Personally, I think it was just his time to go. I think that all the drugs Michael took over the years, and this is just coming out over the media now, incuding what he told Lisa Marie Presley about ending up like Elvis, I think that all of those drugs just accumulated in his body and that his body just said "enough". God only knows what he was taking as a teenager but the man was 50 years old. That's at least 10 years ago that he was with Lisa talking about his drug addiction in not so many words. Ten years accumulation in the body of drugs is alot. If he graduated from percocet, darvocet, codeine etc. to demerol to morphine, that is telling me that his body was already at the point where he would be taking lethal doses of these drugs just for them to work for his pain and to satisfy his addiction. It's a train wreck waiting to happen. The only thing that would have saved Michael would have been complete rehab and stop taking all forms of pain medications ten or more years ago. The defibrillator would have been a bandaid on a gunshot wound. IMHO

[R~O~S]

There is an emergency rescue drug called Narcan that reverses the effects of narcotics. It's always kept on hand in medical settings where heavy narcotic use occurs. I would think the MD giving MJ the Narcotics would have had some available. If MJ died from narcotic overdose he could have been saved if someone had Narcanned him right away when symptoms became evident.

Sorry if this has been discussed already.


Narcan can reverse, at least partially, an opiate overdose. But it will also bring on withdrawal symptoms. The severity of the symptoms will depend on the severity of the addiction & it only works on opiates.

There's a reason addicts have to go to treatment centers, the withdrawal symptoms are as likely to cause a massive heart attack as the overdose without offset & there are other considerations in the event of an overdose.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/narcan.html

The severity and duration of the withdrawal syndrome are related to the dose of Narcan and to the degree and type of opioid dependence.

(skip)

The decision to use Narcan in septic shock should be exercised with caution, particularly in patients who may have underlying pain or have previously received opioid therapy and may have developed opioid tolerance.

There is a really strong possibility this was medication induced but not necessarily and overdose. I have serious doubts this personal physician was actually giving Michael appropriate care, or that he's a good doctor. But depending on Michael's tolerance level and possible addiction, Narcan really may have been the wrong thing to do.

He was the doctor of Micheal's personal choosing. Micheal may not have been the best judge of what was in his best physical interest. But, this may have been a medication reaction that could be considered a known potential side effect rather than an overdose.

It's just too soon to know.

[who_is_it]

Narcan can reverse, at least partially, an opiate overdose. But it will also bring on withdrawal symptoms. The severity of the symptoms will depend on the severity of the addiction & it only works on opiates.

There's a reason addicts have to go to treatment centers, the withdrawal symptoms are as likely to cause a massive heart attack as the overdose without offset & there are other considerations in the event of an overdose.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/narcan.html



There is a really strong possibility this was medication induced but not necessarily and overdose. I have serious doubts this personal physician was actually giving Michael appropriate care, or that he's a good doctor. But depending on Michael's tolerance level and possible addiction, Narcan really may have been the wrong thing to do.

He was the doctor of Micheal's personal choosing. Micheal may not have been the best judge of what was in his best physical interest. But, this may have been a medication reaction that could be considered a known potential side effect rather than an overdose.

It's just too soon to know.

Why the doctor of his personal chosing? Did you read this somewhere? I thought AEG has chosen the doctor... but I could be wrong.

[R~O~S]

Why the doctor of his personal chosing? Did you read this somewhere? I thought AEG has chosen the doctor... but I could be wrong.

I read it this morning. AEG preferred to hire a doctor in Europe due to the cost of keeping a full time doctor on staff. Michael insisted this doctor be put on the payroll because they had a long term relationship.

I think this link is OK to quote, I hope so anyway:

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/siliconalley/media/henry_blodget_michael_jacksons_family_wants_to_kno w_what_role_concert_promoter_aeg_played_in_his_dea th_2009_6.html

Randy Phillips, AEG Live president and chief executive, said earlier Friday that it was Jackson who insisted that Dr. Conrad Murray, a financially troubled cardiologist who was with the entertainer when he collapsed Thursday, be put on the tour payroll.

"As a company, we would have preferred not having a physician on staff full-time because it would have been cheaper without the hotels and travel, but Michael was insistent that he be hired," Phillips said. "Michael said he had a rapport with him."


ETA: There are lots of other links saying the same thing, but a lot of those can't be quoted and I believe they're all quoting the same source.

[who_is_it]

I read it this morning. AEG preferred to hire a doctor in Europe due to the cost of keeping a full time doctor on staff. Michael insisted this doctor be put on the payroll because they had a long term relationship.

I think this link is OK to quote, I hope so anyway:

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/siliconalley/media/henry_blodget_michael_jacksons_family_wants_to_kno w_what_role_concert_promoter_aeg_played_in_his_dea th_2009_6.html


ETA: There are lots of other links saying the same thing, but a lot of those can't be quoted and I believe they're all quoting the same source.

Thanx for the info.

[2boysMom]

Narcan can reverse, at least partially, an opiate overdose. But it will also bring on withdrawal symptoms. The severity of the symptoms will depend on the severity of the addiction & it only works on opiates.

There's a reason addicts have to go to treatment centers, the withdrawal symptoms are as likely to cause a massive heart attack as the overdose without offset & there are other considerations in the event of an overdose.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/narcan.html



There is a really strong possibility this was medication induced but not necessarily and overdose. I have serious doubts this personal physician was actually giving Michael appropriate care, or that he's a good doctor. But depending on Michael's tolerance level and possible addiction, Narcan really may have been the wrong thing to do.

He was the doctor of Micheal's personal choosing. Micheal may not have been the best judge of what was in his best physical interest. But, this may have been a medication reaction that could be considered a known potential side effect rather than an overdose.

It's just too soon to know.


In a life and death situation, withdrawal is not an immediate concern, especially if it is a known opiate overdose. If the scenario was as reported, that the MD gave him a dose of demerol after which his breathing stopped, narcan may have saved his life and should have been available and given.

[R~O~S]

In a life and death situation, withdrawal is not an immediate concern, especially if it is a known opiate overdose. If the scenario was as reported, that the MD gave him a dose of demerol after which his breathing stopped, narcan may have saved his life and should have been available and given.


I don't think you or I have enough information to know that at this time. But you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I believe his personal physician would be in a much better position to make that determination and you don't know it wasn't administered and therefore the cause of death. That's what the toxicology reports coupled with the interview with and report from the doctor will reveal. JMHO

[2boysMom]

I don't think you or I have enough information to know that at this time. But you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I believe his personal physician would be in a much better position to make that determination and you don't know it wasn't administered and therefore the cause of death. That's what the toxicology reports coupled with the interview with and report from the doctor will reveal. JMHO

I know I don't have all the information, that's why my posts contained "if's" and "may's". :rolleyes:

[R~O~S]

I know I don't have all the information, that's why my posts contained "if's" and "may's". :rolleyes:


Which would call into question your motives with this post. I'm afraid you'll have to look for the argument you seek elsewhere.

As I said and backed up with factual information, you don't know what was or wasn't done at the time & you're not in any position to know what should have been done unless you know the level of tolorance he had and what he was currently taking. On the other hand his doctor did.

Have the nicest day!!

[2boysMom]

Which would call into question your motives with this post. I'm afraid you'll have to look for the argument you seek elsewhere.

As I said and backed up with factual information, you don't know what was or wasn't done at the time & you're not in any position to know what should have been done unless you know the level of tolorance he had and what he was currently taking. On the other hand his doctor did.

Have the nicest day!!

What else would my motive for posting be, other than to speculate that Michael MIGHT still be alive IF the doctor had made the mistake of neglecting to use narcan to reverse the effect of the narcotic he had just given him. Why so argumentative? I'll have a great day! Hope you are able to do the same. :biggrin:

[MissElainyS]

What else would my motive for posting be, other than to speculate that Michael MIGHT still be alive IF the doctor had made the mistake of neglecting to use narcan to reverse the effect of the narcotic he had just given him. Why so argumentative? I'll have a great day! Hope you are able to do the same. :biggrin:

Unless I am misinformed, this is supposed to be a discussion board so that we can discuss the possibilities, the what-ifs, the could've, should've and would'ves of the death of Michael Jackson. I'm not the board monitor but I don't see anything wrong with what you said. I don't think you have "motives" other than to have a healthy discussion. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[who_is_it]

Jackson's Doc -- I Am Not Responsible

"Dr. Conrad Murray -- the personal physician to Michael Jackson -- is certain he is in no way responsible for the death of Jackson.

TMZ spoke with one of Murray's lawyers who told us Dr. Murray will meet with the LAPD today at 4:00 PM. Murray's lawyer, Matt Alford, says Murray is NOT considered by cops to be a suspect, and at this point it is not a criminal investigation.

Alford tells us cops want Dr. Murray to help piece together a timeline of the day's events."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/27/jackson-doc-i-am-not-responsible/

[n/t]

Cops Seek 2nd Person in Jackson Investigation:

Cops want to talk to a second person in their investigation into Michael Jackson's death.

Sources tell TMZ police want to talk to Dr. Tohme Tohme about an "alleged indirect connection" between prescription drugs
and MJ's passing.

Dr. Tohme says he's Jackson's longtime friend and manager. He tells us, "I don't have anything to do with his (Michael's) medication or health. This is B.S. -- why should I talk to police?"

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/27/michael-jackson-investigation-tohme/


Uh oh. If he has nothing to hide, why not talk to them?

I don't know. I just have this feeling that Michael may have revealed a lot of his personal matters to someone. Deepak Chopra, maybe??? The nanny?

[2boysMom]

Unless I am misinformed, this is supposed to be a discussion board so that we can discuss the possibilities, the what-ifs, the could've, should've and would'ves of the death of Michael Jackson. I'm not the board monitor but I don't see anything wrong with what you said. I don't think you have "motives" other than to have a healthy discussion. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Thanks, MissE!

[Postergeist]

I believe the caller was Randy - MJ's brother -- but I can be mistaken.

any more news on who made the call? I know the caller had said "we" several times- but it wasn't clear if the caller ever spoke to anyone else in the room (like did he say something like- he needs to be moved to the floor - passing on the instructions from the 911 operator)

It has made me wonder if the doctor himself was the one making the call and chose not to ID himself as the personal dr.

appreciate any info that someone has heard/read

[Postergeist]

From another thread:
****************
forensicpsy~
Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 634

The 911 call was made by a security guard named Tippy.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06282009...nce_176550.htm
****************************8

thank you for finding that aobtd- but I'm logging back on so late, that link has expired now- so did find it mentioned here

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/jacksons-entourage-called-his-dad-before-911_1107985

where it said that Joe was called first (of course, this link may expire too)

MICHAEL JACKSON's entourage waited for up to 50 minutes to call emergency services after he collapsed.
Jackson biographer Stacy Brown has spoken to the King of Pop's family since his sudden death on Thursday (25Jun09), and reveals their concern at the delay.
Brown claims the star collapsed in the living room of his rented California home at 11.30am local time, but instead of calling 911, his security guard Tippy called Jackson's father Joseph, while his doctor Conrad Murray administered CPR.


found out how many were reportedly there-

Brown said he was told that when Jackson went into cardiac arrest, he was in the living room of the $100,000-per-month Los Angeles rental with the 12-year-old boy — whose full name is "Prince" Michael Joseph Jackson Jr.

Also there were the pop star's personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, his longtime friend and one-time manager, Frank DiLeo, and a security guard named Tippy.



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529321,00.html?mrp

[ish]

Murray was supposed to be paid 150K to be Jackson's personal physician. AEG denies responsiblity for those payments, says the Dr had a contract with Jackson, which Jackson never signed, therefore they are not responsible the Dr will have to go after Jackson's estate.
Sadly this seemed to be a pattern with Jackson, a lot of people over the years have claimed he stiffed them.

I think this is going to go the way of ANna Nicole and ELvis. They always find someone to supply them with what they want.

His family outside of Janet, who has her own solid career, has been very dependent on Michael for money over years. I see Joe gearing himself up to try and cash in on the fan frenzy to make money. Turning Neverland into a Graceland? Joe Jackson is no Priscilla Presley. I don't see this turning out well at all... Years of lawsuits coming.

[Staceylee]

There is an emergency rescue drug called Narcan that reverses the effects of narcotics. It's always kept on hand in medical settings where heavy narcotic use occurs. I would think the MD giving MJ the Narcotics would have had some available. If MJ died from narcotic overdose he could have been saved if someone had Narcanned him right away when symptoms became evident.

Sorry if this has been discussed already.

If he died in his sleep then it is entirely possible that they did not know he was dying until it was to late. He most likely appeared to just be sleeping. IMO

[2boysMom]

If he died in his sleep then it is entirely possible that they did not know he was dying until it was to late. He most likely appeared to just be sleeping. IMO

I agree, Staceylee. You are absolutely correct.

[2boysMom]

Stacylee, you are just too sensible for this thread. :smile:
Most of these posts with medical suppositions are so impossible that it would be funny if they weren't talking about a dead person who hasn't even been buried yet.
IMO

You must have noticed Staceylee said" IF" he had been asleep... The report I read implied that his respiratory distress was evident, in which case, IF true, immediate use of narcan may have saved him, Impossible? No, and not even remotely funny.

[disneyfreak]

Dr. Murray claimed Michael had a pulse. If so, Narcan would have circulated through his system, possibly saving MJ's life.