the children and custody

[who_is_it]

Debbie Rowe -- She Gets Custody if She Wants

"Debbie Rowe is poised to take full custody of the two children she bore for Michael Jackson.

It has been widely reported Debbie Rowe gave up her parental rights to Paris and Michael Jr. That is not true."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/debbie-rowe-michael-jackson-custody-paris-michael-jr-death-overdose-children/

i believe debbie to be a nice person but maybe the children should stay with the staff they know and learned to love like this mrs. r. (name starts with "r").

[Dunlurken]

It's gonna get ugly.

Big time ugly. The children are the heirs to his fortune. JMO. Heck, she sold them before, and hasn't seen them in years. She doesn't deserve them.

[Lyvia]

Sadly, I can't think of anyone likely to get custody who is a great candidate. But I think in the long run, they're going to be better off. I am sure they loved their father and he loved them, but I think he was not equipped to be a parent.

[LisaM22]

Sadly, I can't think of anyone likely to get custody who is a great candidate. But I think in the long run, they're going to be better off. I am sure they loved their father and he loved them, but I think he was not equipped to be a parent.

I am sure the mother will get the children that are hers.. even mary winkler got her children after killing their father

[Cornblossom]

As for whether Rowe will ask for custody .... our sources say you can bet on it. We're told if Rowe gets custody she will get "a huge amount of child support from Jackson's estate."


http://www.tmz.com/<<<<TMZ

[emdragon]

Here reasons for having the children are shallow yes but let's be serious if not her who? The family that made Michael what he was, full of abuse and craziness.

The kids stand a better chance at a normal life with Rowe.

As for the support- let's wait and see what is actually left of the estate for her to be getting.

[LisaM22]

I don't think she wants them. I think she will simply use them as a means to another pile of $$$$$$$$$.

the courts do not care about any of that, like I said even mary winkler got her children after killing their father

[who_is_it]

so sad...

Michael Jackson’s Manager: I ‘Had To Tell The Children’

"We had to tell the children. I didn’t go in alone. I went in with a doctor and a social worker. The nanny was in there and Dr. Murray – Michael’s personal physician. It was, as you would think,' a visibly emotional Dileo continued. 'I can’t even begin to tell you the emotion that flowed out of those children.'"

http://www.accesshollywood.com/michael-jacksons-manager-i-had-to-tell-the-children_article_19755

"'I was with Michael everyday going to rehearsals – Wednesday and Thursday he was the happiest,' the manager recalled. “On Wednesday, he put his arm around me at the end [of the day] and he said, ‘Frank, I’ve never been happier. We’re going to make this work… It’s our time again Frank. We’re going to do this!"

[Citygirl]

I don't see any of MJ's family being given custody since I do not believe for a second the children are biologically related to the Jackson's.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if they actually end up living a normal life, unlike the life they have known so far..I will pray for that.

[LisaM22]

so sad...

Michael Jackson’s Manager: I ‘Had To Tell The Children’

"We had to tell the children. I didn’t go in alone. I went in with a doctor and a social worker. The nanny was in there and Dr. Murray – Michael’s personal physician. It was, as you would think,' a visibly emotional Dileo continued. 'I can’t even begin to tell you the emotion that flowed out of those children.'"

http://www.accesshollywood.com/michael-jacksons-manager-i-had-to-tell-the-children_article_19755

"'I was with Michael everyday going to rehearsals – Wednesday and Thursday he was the happiest,' the manager recalled. “On Wednesday, he put his arm around me at the end [of the day] and he said, ‘Frank, I’ve never been happier. We’re going to make this work… It’s our time again Frank. We’re going to do this!"

you forget how big a house they live in until you think that they did not even know he was dying and had to be told

[jewel6]

So we know for fact that these arent michaels bio children? I dont think they are but i wasnt sure if anyone had come out and said it for fact. JMO

[jewel6]

hi jewel -- does it really matter? MJ bio or not is the childrens' father. He LOVED, CARED, RAISED and SUPPORTED them. They are HIS.
Sperm doesn't make someone a father.

It doesnt matter to me. I know he is still their father. I was just wondering if anyone like michael or debbie or even his family ever said anything for sure. Im nosey. :biggrin: jmo I know he loved those kids.

[LisaM22]

So we know for fact that these arent michaels bio children? I dont think they are but i wasnt sure if anyone had come out and said it for fact. JMO

I do not know that, from looking at their pictures, they sure look like him

[LisaM22]

As for whether Rowe will ask for custody .... our sources say you can bet on it. We're told if Rowe gets custody she will get "a huge amount of child support from Jackson's estate."


http://www.tmz.com/<<<<TMZ

that same statement could be said about anyone that wants custody though really

[Amy S.]

Supposedly, there is a will and the children were taken care of in it. That would be nice, if it were iron clad and sensible.

I haven't looked it up, but the Jacksons would have to be at least 80 YO. I don't see them getting the children.

But, it is a large family.

If the mom of the older 2 is a responsible person, she should get her kids.

I don't know anything about her.

Where did he get the 3rd child from?

I also heard a friend say that none of the children were biologically his. They appear to be caucasian. But, if he legally adopted them, it is neither here nor there. But, if he didn't...... MOO

[VC2]

Unfortunately I don't think Rowe is wrapped too tight either. :(

Isn't MJ's mom and dad separated? What about Rebie -- the older sister? The children also have Godparents. They've been with the nanny all of their lives too !

I wish there was some way for Grace to stay in their lives. She has been a rock.

IMO

[aproudmom]

Lawyer: Mom of 2 of Jackson's kids is inconsolable

http://www.nwitimes.com/articles/2009/06/26/ap/entertainment/d992hf5g0.txt
LOS ANGELES - A lawyer who represented Debbie Rowe in a custody matter says the mother of two of Michael Jackson's three children is inconsolable.

[Citygirl]

Absolutely -- she is actually their mother IMO.


Actually she has been a paid employee for years.

[who_is_it]

like i said before: maybe it would be best if the children stayed with the people they're used to, like for example mrs grace rwaramba if she was still part of the staff.

unlike some of you i don't have a bad opinion about debbie. during the trial the prosecution went out with her for dinner one night before her testimony. but she testified her way, though. furthermore she busted mj's business partners with bad intentions during the trial by taping phone calls.

i've read some weeks ago that michael wanted to perform for his children. there were pictures how they joined him at the places he was rehearsing. one reason more why it's so sad that he had to die now. :rose:

[aproudmom]

I think it is so sad if this becomes the focus before he is even laid to rest..first of all DR did not raise those kids they may be blood to her but let me tell you my ex and his brother were adopted and his parents loved them boys as much as the other 2 children..Blood means nothing it is the love, I really hope someone will step back and do right for these kids not just hand them over to her just because she gave birth to them and then turned them over to him for MONEY and I am sure she will go away with a few more bucks MJ will make more money right now being dead than alive and it should go to his debt and kids not her when you can sell your kids then you should never have them give them kids to the ones who has been there and raised them I am sure they are closer to their nanny than DR they need to just give these kids time..and perhaps they can say who they want to be with they are not babys anymore....all JMO

I think at this point not 1 of us know what agreement they had as far as the kids but having a child DOES NOT make a MOTHER

Debbie Rowe is poised to take full custody of the two children she bore for Michael Jackson.

It has been widely reported Debbie Rowe gave up her parental rights to Paris and Michael Jr. That is not true.

During the custody fight that Rowe had with Jackson in 2005, she attempted to give up her parental rights, saying Michael was the greatest father ever. Retired Judge Stephen Lachs, who presided over the hearing, initially ruled her rights were terminated ... but then Lachs reversed his decision.

[LisaM22]

like i said before: maybe it would be best if the children stayed with the people they're used to, like for example mrs grace rwaramba if she was still part of the staff.

unlike some of you i don't have a bad opinion about debbie. during the trial the prosecution went out with her for dinner one night before her testimony. but she testified her way, though. furthermore she busted mj's business partners with bad intentions during the trial by taping phone calls.

i've read some weeks ago that michael wanted to perform for his children. there were pictures how they joined him at the places he was rehearsing. one reason more why it's so sad that he had to die now. :rose:

maybe the mother will move there and keep the staff?

[aproudmom]

SORRY If I sounded rude did not mean to just hope they do the best for the kids and I guess if it is DR then it is..

[who_is_it]

maybe the mother will move there and keep the staff?

whoever will get custody: i hope the staff will be kept.

[fastpitch]

"If MJ named a legal guardian would it supercede Rowe's claim to them?"

Of course, it is possible that Rowe is the guardian.

Hopefully, for the children, it is all spelled out and Joe isn't involved in it.

[Barbara fl.]

Here reasons for having the children are shallow yes but let's be serious if not her who? The family that made Michael what he was, full of abuse and craziness.

The kids stand a better chance at a normal life with Rowe.

As for the support- let's wait and see what is actually left of the estate for her to be getting.



I would prefer to see them adopted out before letting Rowe (who sold them) get them...I do not believe there is a court in this world that would give children back to a mother who birthed them for money....she would only resell them after the money was gone....:thumbdown:

[kitty1182]

I would prefer to see them adopted out before letting Rowe (who sold them) get them...I do not believe there is a court in this world that would give children back to a mother who birthed them for money....she would only resell them after the money was gone....:thumbdown:

I hope she doesn't get them either!!!!!

[emdragon]

I would prefer to see them adopted out before letting Rowe (who sold them) get them...I do not believe there is a court in this world that would give children back to a mother who birthed them for money....she would only resell them after the money was gone....:thumbdown:

You are clearly mistaken when you say no court would give her custody as it was a JUDGE who wouldn't let her severe all parental rights.

[4Life]

In the wake of shocking news of pop superstar Michael Jackson's death, many are left wondering about the fate of his three children. Early reports by RadarOnline suggest that Jackson's mother Katherine will assume custody of the children.
Prince Michael Jr., 12, Paris Katherine, 11, and 7-year-old Prince Michael Jackson II are currently in their grandmother's care. "The kids are very upset, but the are fine," Jackson's manager, Frank DiLeo, told PEOPLE.




Jackson's ex-wife Debbie Rowe has the legal right to obtain custody of Paris and Michael Jr., the two children she bore for the singer. It was previously believed that Rowe gave up custody of the kids during a legal battle in 2005, and the judge at the hearing initially ruled her rights terminated. But Judge Stephen Lachs later reversed his decision.


http://www.popeater.com/music/article/michael-jackson-children-custody/545142?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.p opeater.com%2Fmusic%2Farticle%2Fmichael-jackson-children-custody%2F545142

[Pashie]

I've read 2 posts up thread...one saying that the children look like Michael, and another saying that they children do not look Caucasian...

I'm wondering what kids ya'll are looking at???

http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/michael_jackson_shopping_for_comics#27861

I don't think they look like him, nor do they look African American...not that it makes any difference in Michael's parenting or love for them. Just curious.

[Details]

I know that but she is the one that has taken care of those kids and nurtured them

Creating and having babies doesn't make you a parentHaving babies doesn't make you a parent. Being paid to take care of them doesn't either.

Hopefully it'll be about who the kids will be best off with. While Rowe did give up her rights (for money, for love, out of threats, to give the kids the best possible life?) - she obviously cared for them as well, tried to keep them safe.

The nanny - I don't know anything about - but she's been paid to care for the children - that doesn't mean there's a bond there.

MJ's family - not sure I like them - the ones who abused him as a child - even if only by taking away his childhood to help them make money, the lawsuits, the battles - I don't think the kids would get a chance at a normal life there.

I'm glad it's the courts who decide - a neutral party who has no interests, who is able to compel whatever testimony and facts and evaluations needed to make the right decision is definitely the one who should decide.

[who_is_it]

Who Will Get Custody of Michael Jackson's Kids?
A Battle May Already Be Brewing Between Jackson's Nanny and Mother Over Fate of Children
By RUSSELL GOLDMAN
June 26, 2009

Grace, is Grace Rwaramba, 42, who has worked for Jackson for nearly two decades, starting as an office assistant who handled insurance for his employees.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=7934658&page=1

I mentioned her before on this thread... and Grace is actually the person I would have thought of. I think she was like a mother to them.

[Citygirl]

I've read 2 posts up thread...one saying that the children look like Michael, and another saying that they children do not look Caucasian...

I'm wondering what kids ya'll are looking at???

http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/michael_jackson_shopping_for_comics#27861

I don't think they look like him, nor do they look African American...not that it makes any difference in Michael's parenting or love for them. Just curious.


I agree with that..yep. Just look at any picture of MJ at the same age his children are now to see there is no resemblance at all to MJ or any of his family. Nope..none.

[who_is_it]

Who's the Godfather Mark Lester (mentioned in the article)? Was he a friend of MJ?

[Citygirl]

I mentioned her before on this thread... and Grace is actually the person I would have thought of. I think she was like a mother to them.


I can't imagine a court giving real and actual custody of these children to a paid custodian..that would be sorta like giving your whole line of thoroughbreds to the stable boy..the one that looked after them and fed them and shoveled up after them..or giving your Renoir's and Reuben's to the maid that dusted them for you.
this will not happen.

[who_is_it]

I can't imagine a court giving real and actual custody of these children to a paid custodian..that would be sorta like giving your whole line of thoroughbreds to the stable boy..the one that looked after them and fed them and shoveled up after them..
this will not happen.

Maybe there would be a solution that the Jackson family gets legal custody and Grace physical custody.

[Shells2]

Don't know for sure if they are bio -- but they do NOT look caucasian ........


http://1manstanding.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/jacksons-children-paris-and-michael.jpg

I think they look half caucasion and half African American..

They do kind of look like MJ imo.

[whitedove007]

Hope the kids go back to there birth mom's.

[Citygirl]

http://1manstanding.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/jacksons-children-paris-and-michael.jpg

I think they look half caucasion and half African American..

They do kind of look like MJ imo.


Come here leetle girl, as it is important?


:wub:

[emdragon]

I've read 2 posts up thread...one saying that the children look like Michael, and another saying that they children do not look Caucasian...

I'm wondering what kids ya'll are looking at???

http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/michael_jackson_shopping_for_comics#27861

I don't think they look like him, nor do they look African American...not that it makes any difference in Michael's parenting or love for them. Just curious.

I have gotten a laugh out of people saying they look just like Michael since Michael stopped looking like Michael years ago.

[Mamie]

Big time ugly. The children are the heirs to his fortune. JMO. Heck, she sold them before, and hasn't seen them in years. She doesn't deserve them.

Darn tootin' it's gonna get ugly----but the judge just might give those kids the choice of whom they'd like to live with----they are old enough. JMO

[fastpitch]

Wikipedia for Katherine states that she and Joe are 78.

Jeremain has 10 kids, but some of the Jackson siblings do not have any children.

There should be more than enough Jacksons that would be able to take the kids.

[bkwits]

I have gotten a laugh out of people saying they look just like Michael since Michael stopped looking like Michael years ago.


Yes, I certainly agree. I read that Debbie Rowe has said that she was inseminated with donor sperm both times. Her two children look nothing like MJ. The youngest may look a little like him. MJ has said that the youngest was born to a surrogate and he donated the sperm. I think this was on TMZ but not sure.

IMO

[sunflowerseeds]

Wikipedia for Katherine states that she and Joe are 78.

Jeremain has 10 kids, but some of the Jackson siblings do not have any children.

There should be more than enough Jacksons that would be able to take the kids.

My vote would go to Janet.

[withay]

Unless Debbie Rowe can be proved to be unfit or she does not want them, she has about a 98% chance of getting the 2 older children.
I worked for social services for years and unless there is proof of unfitness, the remaining parent gets the children when the custodial parent dies. I worked with someone who was dying of cancer (another social worker). Her ex had abandoned her and their 2 children over 10 years before when the kids were babies. She had raised them without any support or visitation (he was not interested) from the father. She had lived with her parents who helped with the day to day care of the children. She started trying to help her parents get custody after her death as soon as the dr's determined she was terminal. Even with all of that there was nothing they could do. When her ex realized that the kids would come with SSA checks of close to $1000 each, he wanted and got custody after her death!

[spydernweb2006]

I forsee a huge and very ugly custody case looming at the expense of these 3 kids.
The Jackson's have alot of money but Debbie Rowe has a huge advantage with DNA. It could legally be game over for the Jackson's regrdless of money IF its proven that Michael, while the birth Father was not the Biological Father. Debbie Rowe has pubically said she was inseminated with donor sperm and IF the Jackson's have no biological tie to these kids custody will go to the surviving biological Parent.

Even if Michael's will says that a certain person is now the guardian of these kids IF the Bio Mom sues the court will side with her. I hope, wish and pray that the 3 children are allowed to grow up together. IMO it would be beyond cruel to separate these 3 kids due to biology.

IMO a scenerio I see happening is Debbie gaining custody of ALL the kids and keeping Grace on as their nanny. I just dont see the elderly and possibly ill Grand Parents who may not have any biological ties to these kids being awarded custody, nor any of Michael's siblings.


JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

[msgatorslayer]

I feel bad for his children. Their life is upside down right now. Everyone will be wanting custody of them.

Mama Jackson, IMO, should not get them. She and Pa Jackson will have them all up on stage singing within a year. Michael may have sheltered them in odd ways {veils and masks in public} but his wacko childhood was something he didn't want his children to have.

As for Rowe, IMO, those kids were nothing but a great chunk of money to her.

Gosh, I cringe to think of any of them getting custody.

[Citygirl]

My vote would go to Janet.


But Janet is not related, not married, and doesn't have a maternal bone in her body from what I've seen..why in the world would you want the children to go to her?

[sunflowerseeds]

But Janet is not related, not married, and doesn't have a maternal bone in her body from what I've seen..why in the world would you want the children to go to her?

She is their aunt. So only married people can raise kids? What a bizarre post. I would want the children to go to her because she appears to be the most normal Jackson (sans Rebi - who might be a good choice as well) around.

[MoonFlwr]

http://1manstanding.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/jacksons-children-paris-and-michael.jpg

I think they look half caucasion and half African American..

They do kind of look like MJ imo.

Yeah, I thought that the boy in that picture has a mouth and nose similar to MJ's..(.before he had all the surgery of course).

[bkwits]

Here are a couple of good photos of Grace.

http://www.makli.com/grace-rwaramba/

[Citygirl]

What do you mean Janet is not related? I think the older sister, Rebi should raise the kids.


All this talkin we are doin about the future parentage of these children is just for our own benefit..so I hope we will not get upset with each other about something that has no significance to the situation at all..

I hope we can remain posting buddies even if our opinion differs..
..and I only meant that a judge will probably lean more towards giving the biological mother a chance to have custody of her own children before "giving" them to Janet or Rebi, who is not blood related to them..

[Barbara fl.]

You are clearly mistaken when you say no court would give her custody as it was a JUDGE who wouldn't let her severe all parental rights.


Well, I guess she will be hoping for the same judge......

[R~O~S]

All this talkin we are doin about the future parentage of these children is just for our own benefit..so I hope we will not get upset with each other about something that has no significance to the situation at all..

I hope we can remain posting buddies even if our opinion differs..
..and I only meant that a judge will probably lean more towards giving the biological mother a chance to have custody of her own children before "giving" them to Janet or Rebi, who is not blood related to them..


A biological mother of an adopted child may be "blood related", but no judge is going to return that child to the biological mother who hasn't seen them since birth. That child is going to someone in the adopting family.

I've never seen a court take "blood relation" into consideration, rather it's the best interest of the children. It wouldn't seem DR is interested enough to even attempt gaining custody unless it's about the money which is still unclear given her recent interview & she is not the biological mother to Blanket.

She doesn't need money & just wants to be left alone on her ranch with her horses in one breath, but she wants a reality show in the next?

TMZ is reporting the children have expressed they want to live with their grandparents. The grandparents are grandparents to all three children. No court is going to split them up & DR has no legitimate claim to Blanket.

They're old enough to make their feelings known on the matter and it will carry weight. She doesn't know her own children & apparently didn't want to, otherwise she wouldn't have tried to have her rights terminated. JMHO, which won't matter a twit because the courts will decide & I wish them infinite wisdom when they do.

[GentleBreeze]

I can't imagine a court giving real and actual custody of these children to a paid custodian..that would be sorta like giving your whole line of thoroughbreds to the stable boy..the one that looked after them and fed them and shoveled up after them..or giving your Renoir's and Reuben's to the maid that dusted them for you.
this will not happen.

I think Grace is much much more than that. I read that all three of the children call her mom and she has been consistently in their lives since their births.

I think MJ has set it up in his Will that Grace be given custody of his children.

imo

[bkwits]

I can't imagine a court giving real and actual custody of these children to a paid custodian..that would be sorta like giving your whole line of thoroughbreds to the stable boy..the one that looked after them and fed them and shoveled up after them..or giving your Renoir's and Reuben's to the maid that dusted them for you.
this will not happen.

It is my understanding that Grace, the Nanny, has been with the family for 20 years (in another capacity in the beginning). She is prob the only mother figure the children have known.

Foster parents, who are paid to take care of children, do frequently adopt them. Do you think the court should not give those children to their paid "custodians"?

I'm not advocating that Grace be given custody since I know nothing about her, but I think she is a far better choice than Debbie Rowe. IMO

[GentleBreeze]

A biological mother of an adopted child may be "blood related", but no judge is going to return that child to the biological mother who hasn't seen them since birth. That child is going to someone in the adopting family.

I've never seen a court take "blood relation" into consideration, rather it's the best interest of the children. It wouldn't seem DR is interested enough to even attempt gaining custody unless it's about the money which is still unclear given her recent interview & she is not the biological mother to Blanket.

She doesn't need money & just wants to be left alone on her ranch with her horses in one breath, but she wants a reality show in the next?

TMZ is reporting the children have expressed they want to live with their grandparents. The grandparents are grandparents to all three children. No court is going to split them up & DR has no legitimate claim to Blanket.

They're old enough to make their feelings known on the matter and it will carry weight. She doesn't know her own children & apparently didn't want to, otherwise she wouldn't have tried to have her rights terminated. JMHO, which won't matter a twit because the courts will decide & I wish them infinite wisdom when they do.

I agree. IMO, no wise and concerned Judge is going to separate these three children either. He/she will not take two of them and place them with Rowe (the no show mom) and leave Blanket behind.

imo

[SDMermaid]

You need to get new glasses because they look white to me and maybe the 3rd kid might be mixed but that kid was adopted from an unknown mother. His first kids with Debbie in my opinion was from a sperm donor because they look nothing like him and look what MJ did to his face he hated they way he looked and it makes sense he didn't want to use his own sperm because he didn't want his kids to have his genes he didn't like about himself. But the thing that bothered me that he went on national TV and flat out lied and said his sperm was used to make those children he could have said no comment about how his kids were made. Why didn't he just adopt kids like Angelina? But he hired (married) Debbie Rowe to be his personal baby carrier. After popping out 2 kids she was done and the marriage was over. I wasn't buying any of his marriages. I always believed that he could be gay and when I got older and he started being seen with little boys and not grown women then I really started to wonder. He was a great entertainer but personally he was really mentally messed up and he should have been spending money on therapy instead of building Neverland. Not everyone had a childhood but they don't go around wanting to be a child everyday and have sleepovers when you are in your 40's! I really hope now that someone that has a good heart will be able to give these kids a normal life and not a "Peter Pan" life like MJ gave them. These kids need be reprogrammed from the strange behaviors their dad did like sharing your bed with kids and way too much surgery. And I really hope that they are raised to be careful how the spend their money because MJ was out of control.

http://www.hollywoodrag.com/images/uploads/mjfamily.jpg

http://sandrarose.com/2008/07/10/celebrity-seed-michael-jackson/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/31564866#31564866


Don't know for sure if they are bio -- but they do NOT look caucasian and MJ is the father since he RAISED, CARED, SUPPORTED and LOVED them.

Rebie is an older sister who by all accounts in the most normal and tried the singing bit but wasn't especially thrilled with it and decided to opt out and raise her children. No one knows who Blanket's mom is but there has been speculation it was the Nanny (RUMOR)

[R~O~S]

ITA. Grace Rawamba has been a constant in the children's lives and has been with and supported MJ for over 20 years. I would ventue to guess that she was probably the one MJ trusted the most. JMO


IMO, if this report from TMZ is accurate, the ideal situation would be custodial custody with the grandparents with stipulation Grace be kept on as their nanny.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/27/jacksons-kids-we-want-to-stay-with-grandma/

Sources close to the Jackson family tell us Michael Jackson's three children -- Michael Joseph, Jr., Paris Michael Katherine and Prince "Blanket" Michael II -- say they want to stay with their grandparents, specifically Katherine.

In my perfect world there would be a trust set up to insure her pay and give her some control in reporting to the court on their well being. I'm not keen on Joe being a custodial parent.

I've never heard anyone say a bad word about Katherine. She may not have control over Joe though. Give that to Grace by way of some sort of court order/title. I don't think she's likely to be given custody of them because she isn't family, unless the rumors Michael married her are true.

[Unperson1984]

http://1manstanding.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/jacksons-children-paris-and-michael.jpg

I think they look half caucasion and half African American..

They do kind of look like MJ imo.

Comparing Michael's pictures as a child and these children, I see no resemblance at all.

[ahlou3]

Don't know but I thought Mr. & Mrs. Jackson are divorced. I think he live in Nevada not California.

Mrs. Jackson would be a great choice and she would have lots of help. The three kids would have lots of family members helping them.

[GentleBreeze]

You need to get new glasses because they look white to me and maybe the 3rd kid might be mixed but that kid was adopted from an unknown mother. His first kids with Debbie in my opinion was from a sperm donor because they look nothing like him and look what MJ did to his face he hated they way he looked and it makes sense he didn't want to use his own sperm because he didn't want his kids to have his genes he didn't like about himself. But the thing that bothered me that he went on national TV and flat out lied and said his sperm was used to make those children he could have said no comment about how his kids were made. Why didn't he just adopt kids like Angelina? But he hired (married) Debbie Rowe to be his personal baby carrier. After popping out 2 kids she was done and the marriage was over. I wasn't buying any of his marriages. I always believed that he could be gay and when I got older and he started being seen with little boys and not grown women then I really started to wonder. He was a great entertainer but personally he was really mentally messed up and he should have been spending money on therapy instead of building Neverland. Not everyone had a childhood but they don't go around wanting to be a child everyday and have sleepovers when you are in your 40's! I really hope now that someone that has a good heart will be able to give these kids a normal life and not a "Peter Pan" life like MJ gave them. These kids need be reprogrammed from the strange behaviors their dad did like sharing your bed with kids and way too much surgery. And I really hope that they are raised to be careful how the spend their money because MJ was out of control.

http://www.hollywoodrag.com/images/uploads/mjfamily.jpg

http://sandrarose.com/2008/07/10/celebrity-seed-michael-jackson/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/31564866#31564866

What difference does this make? They are beautiful children. They are his legally recognized children. Rowe walked out and so did the surrogate mom unless the mom is Grace. People who aren't biological parents adopt children and so do step parents, foster parents, etc.....Since when being bio is the only criteria for legal custody of children?

I don't think MJ was even attracted sexually to either male or females. He seemed to prefer to remain being a child where his life could be all about child fun things to occupy his mind like riding trains, ferris wheels, climbing trees and having his animals that he cherished.

I see nothing proving MJ was ever a pedophile but a man with so much money that he could go back and capture his childhood and live it for as long as he wanted to....

[SDMermaid]

Clay Akien and his record producer Jaymes Foster (the woman that carried his baby). Clay came out and said he was gay so it makes sense since he was never seen dating a woman and wanted a child


Debbie Rowe and Michael Jackson same relationship as stated above but MJ never came out of the closet. Debbie Rowe only agreed to give MJ kids as a friend so I don't know why people are blaming her for not wanting a relationship with her kids. MJ paid her off he only wanted someone to give him some kids. She never planned on having kids until he offered her money to give him some. This is just my opinion but it makes the most sense. I know I will be slammed by some MJ lover but this is reality. If MJ would have came out and said that he was gay then it wouldn't matter to any of his fans or me but being gay and liking young boys is a huge no no. I really think MJ was molested when he was a young boy and then add the jerk of a father he had not wonder he was so messed up. I pray his children have a better life

[SDMermaid]

To say that MJ was special and was not attracted to women men or children is crazy I've never met ANYONE that wasn't attracted to someone. But that's your opinion.


What difference does this make? They are beautiful children. They are his legally recognized children. Rowe walked out and so did the surrogate mom unless the mom is Grace. People who aren't biological parents adopt children and so do step parents, foster parents, etc.....Since when being bio is the only criteria for legal custody of children?

I don't think MJ was even attracted sexually to either male or females. He seemed to prefer to remain being a child where his life could be all about child fun things to occupy his mind like riding trains, ferris wheels, climbing trees and having his animals that he cherished.

I see nothing proving MJ was ever a pedophile but a man with so much money that he could go back and capture his childhood and live it for as long as he wanted to....

[GentleBreeze]

Don't know but I thought Mr. & Mrs. Jackson are divorced. I think he live in Nevada not California.

Mrs. Jackson would be a great choice and she would have lots of help. The three kids would have lots of family members helping them.

Fox news was saying that the Jacksons just celebrated their 60th wedding anniversary about two weeks ago and all the family was there including MJ.

imo

[ahlou3]

Some people post such hate it deserve no response :thumbdown:

[GentleBreeze]

To say that MJ was special and was not attracted to women men or children is crazy I've never met ANYONE that wasn't attracted to someone. But that's your opinion.

There are people out there that are like that. I have seen links to it before in the past. Maybe I can find something on it again.

ETA: I didnt say he was special but I do think he was different than the norm.

imo

[SDMermaid]

I don't care how he had his children he lied to the public and said that he and Debbie did it the old fashion way (sex) he should have not even said anything just like he wants us all to believe he had only 2 nose jobs. I don't like liars just be honest because we can see for ourselves the truth before our eyes. If someone asks you a question and you don't want them to know the answer just say that's none of your business.

What difference does this make? They are beautiful children. They are his legally recognized children. Rowe walked out and so did the surrogate mom unless the mom is Grace. People who aren't biological parents adopt children and so do step parents, foster parents, etc.....Since when being bio is the only criteria for legal custody of children?

I don't think MJ was even attracted sexually to either male or females. He seemed to prefer to remain being a child where his life could be all about child fun things to occupy his mind like riding trains, ferris wheels, climbing trees and having his animals that he cherished.

I see nothing proving MJ was ever a pedophile but a man with so much money that he could go back and capture his childhood and live it for as long as he wanted to....

[SDMermaid]

Are you kidding me!!! She is still with the man the abused MJ! Those poors kids don't have a chance if they are going to be raised by a grandmother that would stay with a man that beat and mentally screwed up that whole family. She has no reason to stay with him MJ had money she could have left him!


Fox news was saying that the Jacksons just celebrated their 60th wedding anniversary about two weeks ago and all the family was there including MJ.

imo

[SDMermaid]

Are you talking about asexual people?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality


There are people out there that are like that. I have seen links to it before in the past. Maybe I can find something on it again.

ETA: I didnt say he was special but I do think he was different than the norm.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Are you talking about asexual people?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality

Yes, I think that is what it is called.

imo

[SDMermaid]

Oh puhleeze -- so what? It was his life and too bad he didn't say it was none of your business. Catch 22 - either way he would have been villified. JMO


So MJ can do no wrong in your eyes :rolleyes: Believe it or not I grew up on his music but I really don't like what he became. I just hope his kids have a better chance in life

[Pashie]

What difference does this make? They are beautiful children. They are his legally recognized children. Rowe walked out and so did the surrogate mom unless the mom is Grace. People who aren't biological parents adopt children and so do step parents, foster parents, etc.....Since when being bio is the only criteria for legal custody of children?

I don't think MJ was even attracted sexually to either male or females. He seemed to prefer to remain being a child where his life could be all about child fun things to occupy his mind like riding trains, ferris wheels, climbing trees and having his animals that he cherished.

I see nothing proving MJ was ever a pedophile but a man with so much money that he could go back and capture his childhood and live it for as long as he wanted to....

I'm not who you quoted, but I also posted about the children not looking like him. I don't think it changes how he loved or raised them.
but..

IMO it is relevant, because *IF* there is a donor out there, he could also become part of this whole custody madness that will most likely ensue.

ETA: It also could put a crimp in them being "blood related" to the rest of the Jacksons

[Unperson1984]

Clay Akien and his record producer Jaymes Foster (the woman that carried his baby). Clay came out and said he was gay so it makes sense since he was never seen dating a woman and wanted a child


Debbie Rowe and Michael Jackson same relationship as stated above but MJ never came out of the closet. Debbie Rowe only agreed to give MJ kids as a friend so I don't know why people are blaming her for not wanting a relationship with her kids. MJ paid her off he only wanted someone to give him some kids. She never planned on having kids until he offered her money to give him some. This is just my opinion but it makes the most sense. I know I will be slammed by some MJ lover but this is reality. If MJ would have came out and said that he was gay then it wouldn't matter to any of his fans or me but being gay and liking young boys is a huge no no. I really think MJ was molested when he was a young boy and then add the jerk of a father he had not wonder he was so messed up. I pray his children have a better life


They didn't have the same relationship, Jackson and Rowe were married. Moreover the California Court has recognized Rowe to be the mother and as having parental rights.

I wouldn’t want to be the Judge making this decision. On one hand it would be a crime to separate the children, on the other hand Rowe is the mother of the older two children.

[ahlou3]

Fox news was saying that the Jacksons just celebrated their 60th wedding anniversary about two weeks ago and all the family was there including MJ.

imo
Thanks for correcting me, GB.

[Unperson1984]

Fox news was saying that the Jacksons just celebrated their 60th wedding anniversary about two weeks ago and all the family was there including MJ.

imo

Courts are often very reluctant to award custody to grandparents in their eighties.

[SDMermaid]

Why do you keep slamming Debbie MJ didn't want her to be their mother he paid her not to be in their lives:rolleyes:

No offense -- she wasn't their "mother" - she gave birth to the children. JMO

Mother IMO is one who nurtures and protects.

[Unperson1984]

No offense -- she wasn't their "mother" - she gave birth to the children. JMO

Mother IMO is one who nurtures and protects.


The State of California may not agree with your definition.

If we are completely honest, MJ was far from a perfect parent. He abused drugs and spent himself into half a billion dollars of debt. Not to mention the fact that they have been dragged all over the world rather than living in one place and establishing normal relationships with other children.

Perhaps one of MJs brothers has a stable home and could assume custody of the children. I think that would be ideal and would give the grandparents a place in the children's lives. IMO

[SDMermaid]

If MJ wanted to have a mother in their lives he would have never picked a woman that didn't want to raise kids. They had an arrangement she would give him kids and he would pay her for carrying them for him. People do it all the time pay others to carry their kids because they can't have any themselves so get over it about her not wanting to be a mother. Look a Sarah Jessica Parker she hired someone to carry her daughters. If MJ wanted his kids to have a mom then he should have gotten married to a woman that wanted kids. IMO MJ was a horrible role model for his kids with his out of control spending drug abuse and face surgeries and if he is really a pedophile I really hope he didn't do anything with his boys :(

He also paid her not to talk about who the real MJ is

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/rowevjack1.html



Because a REAL mother at least wouldn't give up visitation. I am entitled to my opinion. As I said a mother is one who nurtures and protects and I stand by my statement no matter how you feel about it and will continue to do so. All MY opinion.

[Unperson1984]

I think Grace is much much more than that. I read that all three of the children call her mom and she has been consistently in their lives since their births.

I think MJ has set it up in his Will that Grace be given custody of his children.

imo

Children are not property!

One parent cannot will his children to a third unrelated party.

[SDMermaid]

ITA with your statement about MJ as not being a stable parent. I guess time will tell how his kids will turn out. I hope they have his talent but not his behaviors.


The State of California may not agree with your definition.

If we are completely honest, MJ was far from a perfect parent. He abused drugs and spent himself into half a billion dollars of debt. Not to mention the fact that they have been dragged all over the world rather than living in one place and establishing normal relationships with other children.

Perhaps one of MJs brothers has a stable home and could assume custody of the children. I think that would be ideal and would give the grandparents a place in the children's lives. IMO

[R~O~S]

Children are not property!

One parent cannot will his children to a third unrelated party.


ummm, yes you can:

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/objectId/EA2707C0-AFE9-4D7E-88E71D0951B8FFF3/309/298/ART/

Here are some factors to consider when choosing a personal guardian:

* Is the prospective guardian old enough? (You must choose an adult -- 18 years old in most states.)
* Does the prospective guardian have a genuine concern for your children's welfare?
* Is the prospective guardian physically able to handle the job?
* Does he or she have the time?
* Does he or she have kids of an age close to that of your children?
* Can you provide enough assets to raise the children? If not, can your prospective guardian afford to bring them up?
* Does the prospective guardian share your moral beliefs?
* Would your children have to move?

If you're having a hard time choosing someone, take some time to talk with the person you're considering. One or more of your candidates may not be willing or able to accept the responsibility, or their feelings about acting as guardian may help you decide.


Dear friends of the family were named as guardian to my youngest brother (10 years younger than me), until I was old enough and settled enough to be named.

[Unperson1984]

ummm, yes you can:

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/objectId/EA2707C0-AFE9-4D7E-88E71D0951B8FFF3/309/298/ART/






Dear friends of the family were named as guardian to my youngest brother (10 years younger than me), until I was old enough and settled enough to be named.

You overlook two parts of my statement..."one parent" and "unrelated third party." These children have a living mother and grandparents.

While the Court may take a deceased parent’s wishes into consideration, they are not legally bound by those wishes, because children are not property and cannot be willed to an unrelated third party.

[bkwits]

Children are not property!

One parent cannot will his children to a third unrelated party.

Well, IMO, MJ thought of them as his property. He bought them. He gave all three of them his given name. He called the youngest one "blanket."

JMHO

[R~O~S]

You overlook two parts of my statement..."one parent" and "unrelated third party." These children have a living mother and grandparents.

While the Court may take a deceased parent’s wishes into consideration, they are not legally bound by those wishes, because children are not property and cannot be willed to an unrelated third party.

And the dear friends of the family were not related when we had/have a large extended family including aunts, uncles and grandparents. Yes, you can name the guardian to your children in the event of your death & unless there's good reason the courts will abide by those wishes.

DR is not parent to one of those children, the courts will not split them up especially given her lack of past interest in maintaining a relationship with them. In the best interest of the children, they will be kept together and they certainly will not be given to a woman who once sought to sever her own parental rights.

That's why they allow a guardianship provision, blood does not necessarily make for the best or even the most appropriate parent/guardian.

She can contest it, if it exists, but I doubt she has the interest.

[Unperson1984]

And the dear friends of the family were not related when we had/have a large extended family including aunts, uncles and grandparents. Yes, you can name the guardian to your children in the event of your death & unless there's good reason the courts will abide by those wishes.

DR is not parent to one of those children, the courts will not split them up especially given her lack of past interest in maintaining a relationship with them. In the best interest of the children, they will be kept together and they certainly will not be given to a woman who once sought to sever her own parental rights.

That's why they allow a guardianship provision, blood does not necessarily make for the best or even the most appropriate parent/guardian.

She can contest it, if it exists, but I doubt she has the interest.

Neither does the deceased parent's wishes make for the best or even the most appropriate parent/guardian.

That is why we have laws and the Courts.

[R~O~S]

Neither does the deceased parent's wishes make for the best or even the most appropriate parent/guardian.

That is why we have laws and the Courts.

Which is why I said they'll honor it unless there's good reason not to do so. Grace has been the only mother all three of these children have known their entire lives. I think, you'd be hard pressed to show she wasn't completely appropriate & in the best interest of the children.

DR has shown no interest in being a mother to them. She sought to have her own parental rights severed. She didn't bother with the visitation rights she had, hadn't seen then in "years" is how she testified at trial.

& all this speculation is simply that, speculation. According to TMZ the children have expressed they want to stay with Katherine. I can't imagine Katherine would even dream of not keeping Grace on with the children.

[Unperson1984]

Which is why I said they'll honor it unless there's good reason not to do so. Grace has been the only mother all three of these children have known their entire lives. I think, you'd be hard pressed to show she wasn't completely appropriate & in the best interest of the children.

DR has shown no interest in being a mother to them. She sought to have her own parental rights severed. She didn't bother with the visitation rights she had, hadn't seen then in "years" is how she testified at trial.

& all this speculation is simply that, speculation. According to TMZ the children have expressed they want to stay with Katherine. I can't imagine Katherine would even dream of not keeping Grace on with the children.

Are you a friend of the family? You seem to know a great deal about family dynamics.

Do the children have a bad relationship with their grandparents or uncles?

[R~O~S]

Are you a friend of the family? You seem to know a great deal about family dynamics.

Do the children have a bad relationship with their grandparents or uncles?

They've had little contact with any of the family except Katherine especially of late.

The family is in the middle of suing Michael for $20M because he's doing the tour in Europe rather than a reunion concert with them in Texas first.

I haven't stated a thing that isn't readily available in the news & linked on this forum as recently as today.

[smhustoiii]

It's absurd to think Debbie Rowe would have any chance of getiing custody and even more disgusting to think money would drive her to try!!! She has not been apart of their lives and hopefully no court would give her custody.

[R~O~S]

ITA. Just hoping the court does the right thing by these children but guess we'll find out ...............


FWIW Athena, I never imagined I'd be here even discussing any of this. Like I said earlier, I haven't been what anyone would consider a "fan" since I was a teen. I'm certainly not connected to the family. I didn't follow the trial, but I accepted the verdict. I won't argue that case, I hold my opinion to myself.

I have a profound sadness over his death, I'm confused by my own reaction. I haven't sorted out my own feelings yet.

I just wish the best for the children, I can't imagine anyone in their right mind believing that's DR, blood or no blood.

[SDMermaid]

I'm with you. I haven't been a fan since 1989 but I do worry about his kids. I really don't think anyone in the Jackson family should raise the kids well I take that back Janet would be the only one I would trust she seems the most stable. I don't care for Michael's mom since she chose to stay married to an abuser! She's too weak of a woman IMO and would probably allow MJ kids be abused too by their grandfather.


FWIW Athena, I never imagined I'd be here even discussing any of this. Like I said earlier, I haven't been what anyone would consider a "fan" since I was a teen. I'm certainly not connected to the family. I didn't follow the trial, but I accepted the verdict. I won't argue that case, I hold my opinion to myself.

I have a profound sadness over his death, I'm confused by my own reaction. I haven't sorted out my own feelings yet.

I just wish the best for the children, I can't imagine anyone in their right mind believing that's DR, blood or no blood.

[SDMermaid]

When you say family do you mean the whole Jackson family is suing him??? If so if I was MJ I wouldn't leave them anything in my will.:cursing:


Update I just checked and it's the concert promoter that is suing Jackson not his family


They've had little contact with any of the family except Katherine especially of late.

The family is in the middle of suing Michael for $20M because he's doing the tour in Europe rather than a reunion concert with them in Texas first.

I haven't stated a thing that isn't readily available in the news & linked on this forum as recently as today.

[R~O~S]

When you say family do you mean the whole Jackson family is suing him??? If so if I was MJ I wouldn't leave them anything in my will.:cursing:

Yep, the family & their promoters. I don't believe Katherine is part of that. I'll try to find the link.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/feedarticle/8552432

In a lawsuit filed in the federal court in Manhattan, Allgood Entertainment said it made a deal with Jackson's then-manager to produce a reunion concert with the Jackson family this summer and possibly a pay-per-view Jackson family reunion event.

The deal called for Jackson not to perform elsewhere before the event or for at least three months after it.


My mistake, not $20M, it's $40 million.

[SDMermaid]

Wow I just read that he also owes money to the director of the video that made him the most famous!:cursing: Does Michael pay anyone money??? And with his track record how does he go and rent a $100,000 a month house? I wouldn't rent to him!

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Michael-Jackson-Sued-1002203.aspx

[SDMermaid]

So the deal was with MJs manager but did MJ sign a contract? If he did then it's his fault and they should get payment. It just adds to to the pile of MJ broken promises.

Yep, the family & their promoters. I don't believe Katherine is part of that. I'll try to find the link.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/feedarticle/8552432




My mistake, not $20M, it's $40 million.

[ahlou3]

Wow I just read that he also owes money to the director of the video that made him the most famous!:cursing: Does Michael pay anyone money??? And with his track record how does he go and rent a $100,000 a month house? I wouldn't rent to him!

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Michael-Jackson-Sued-1002203.aspx

Of course especially when one does not have a home for rent in that area. Can't blame you at all.

[SDMermaid]

I said if I did I wouldn't rent to him there are plenty of other rich people to rent to in Hollywood that pay their bills.


Of course especially when one does not have a home for rent in that area. Can't blame you at all.

[SDMermaid]

Sorry about the comment about the glasses but MJ nephews look mixed to me but MJs own kids don't look like him at all. I even read that Debbie Rowe admitted that MJ did not father the children and the an unknown sperm donor is the bio father. The truth will come out in a book someday from someone in that family that needs the money.


First your comment re: new glasses was uncalled for. Perhaps you can at least try to be civil. I have not attacked you. IMO the children DO NOT look caucasian. My children are mixed and I have nieces and nephews who are mixed and the skin color varies from white to light black. My son was so white and was born with blue eyes; my husband used to hold him up to the sun and say "boy get some color". It was really funny. My husband has medium colored black skin and I have fair skin with brown eyes. As my son got older he 'darkened' a bit but is still fair. My daughter is closer to her father's skin color and yet I am fair. Many blacks in this country have genes that go back to slavery and are mixed with Native American and white blood. Children from the same ancestry can come out in varying skin tones and different colored eyes. My husband has a cousin - both of his parents are black and he has green eyes and fair skin. My husband's grandfather was half-English and half black with blue eyes.

MJs children are fair but they are NOT Caucasian.

These are pictures of MJs nephews. Tried to find pictures of them when they were younger because they were fairer than they are now.

http://www.blackcelebkids.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/3t.jpg

[SDMermaid]

Everyone keeps talking about Grace but she was fired in Dec MJ didn't want to be saved he brought this on himself and this isn't actions the of the great father that everyone is saying he is he sounds like he was way too messed up to raise kids and that's why he had nannies to raise the kids. I'm suprised he didn't die a long time ago the way Grace was talking about MJ medicating himself

http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20287787_20288160,00.html

[SDMermaid]

Then don't look anything like him if they were his bio kids one of them would look mixed but all 3 look white the first kid was born with blonde hair! Look at Heidi Klum's kids with Seal and look at Halle Berry white mother black father and she looks mixed. Halle had a kid with a white man and here is a pic of her girl below her girl is light skin with light eyes but still looks mixed.


http://justentertainment.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/nahlaaubryhalleberryzoodt4.jpg




http://knockedupcelebs.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/heidiklum.jpg




MJ's kids now:

http://www.celebtots.com/files/2009/06/spl104102_001-michael-jackson-children.jpg

[SDMermaid]

If MJ would have just submitted a DNA test to prove that he is the father then these questions of why he hired a woman to give him children with someone else's sperm would be layed to rest. Look what happened in the Anna Nicole Smith Case she claimed the HKS was the father and Dannilynn looked nothing like HKS I knew there was no way he was the father and I was right.

[anon-o-miss]

Big time ugly. The children are the heirs to his fortune. JMO. Heck, she sold them before, and hasn't seen them in years. She doesn't deserve them.
She's sold them more than once if you will recall. After that Martin Bashir(sp?) documentary she was claiming to want them and then another settlement was given. She just wants whatever money she can get for/from them. :thumbdown:

[anon-o-miss]

Ya know what - this is what is funny - I don't think MJ is the bio father however I do believe if there was a donor he was either black or dark Hispanic thus I do NOT believe the children are Caucasian. One thing about mixed children -- is that it is easy for them to fit in with other mixed children and most mixed children are very pretty/good-looking due to the mixture. Look at his nephews -- and look at MJ's son -- you cannot say they don't fit in

The sad part of this whole conversation is that it doesn't matter. MJ is the FATHER -- he raised, cared, supported and loved them. Sperm does not make a father.
I agree I think it's no different than when a single woman gets in vitro with a donors eggs and sperm. You can't say they are his and then change your mind because he died.

[anon-o-miss]

Then don't look anything like him if they were his bio kids one of them would look mixed but all 3 look white the first kid was born with blonde hair! Look at Heidi Klum's kids with Seal and look at Halle Berry white mother black father and she looks mixed. Halle had a kid with a white man and here is a pic of her girl below her girl is light skin with light eyes but still looks mixed.


http://justentertainment.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/nahlaaubryhalleberryzoodt4.jpg
That means nothing I am mixed and my brother is mixed. My children look more ethnic and my niece has blonde hair and blue eyes. (We know it's my brothers child because he passed away and in order for my niece to get her benefits she had to take a DNA test)




http://knockedupcelebs.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/heidiklum.jpg
That means nothing I am mixed and my brother is mixed. My children look more ethnic and my niece has blonde hair and blue eyes. (We know it's my brothers child because he passed away and in order for my niece to get her benefits she had to take a DNA test). Also my mother and all her siblings have the same parents. My aunt and uncle have milk chocolate skin tones and my mother and her youngest sister are light skinned like me. Anyone that thinks skin color or hair or eye color can betray your race is sadly mistaken.

[Themis]

Everyone keeps talking about Grace but she was fired in Dec MJ didn't want to be saved he brought this on himself and this isn't actions the of the great father that everyone is saying he is he sounds like he was way too messed up to raise kids and that's why he had nannies to raise the kids. I'm suprised he didn't die a long time ago the way Grace was talking about MJ medicating himself

http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20287787_20288160,00.html
If Grace, the Nanny, was fired in December 2008, I think that indicates Michael Jackson did not truly have the welfare of his children as a top priority.

If, as I've read here earlier, Jackson has left written instructions that if he died that his 3 children are to be raised by his own mother, Kathleen, again it tells me the welfare of his children was not his top priority.

MJ's mother was incapable of - or did not care enough - to protect MJ from his own father. And that was when she was in the prime of her life.
I don't think at 79 years old Kathleen is able to protect her grandchildren from their abusive paternal grandfather nor from MJ's greedy manipulative siblings.

[JD1974]

Supposedly, there is a will and the children were taken care of in it. That would be nice, if it were iron clad and sensible.

I haven't looked it up, but the Jacksons would have to be at least 80 YO. I don't see them getting the children.

But, it is a large family.

If the mom of the older 2 is a responsible person, she should get her kids.

I don't know anything about her.

Where did he get the 3rd child from?

I also heard a friend say that none of the children were biologically his. They appear to be caucasian. But, if he legally adopted them, it is neither here nor there. But, if he didn't...... MOO

Estate wise only it doesn't matter if he adopted them or not, if they are named (you can guarantee they are) then they will still recieve what they are entitled to. I am strictly speaking of the will, you can give away your whole estate to anyone you want to. I think he did care for his children and made sure they would be taken care of whether they are related by blood or not.

[JD1974]

The worst thing she did was agree to not having visits or not fighting him on that. Those children don't know her and we are not talking about children up to 3 that can bond easily but they are 10 and 12 and have been with MJ and Grace the nanny. Too bad Grace can't get them. :(

Question: Can Grace be named a legal guardian ???? Just thinking that maybe MJ appointed one in a will.



Usually it doesn't matter because she is not biologically related and as I just read Debbie Rowe still has her parental rights. One parent cannot strip the other of their rights in a will.

[JD1974]

maybe the mother will move there and keep the staff?

Would make sense if Debbie Rowe recieved custody to keep the nanny considering she was so involved in the children's life.

[JD1974]

I feel bad for his children. Their life is upside down right now. Everyone will be wanting custody of them.

Mama Jackson, IMO, should not get them. She and Pa Jackson will have them all up on stage singing within a year. Michael may have sheltered them in odd ways {veils and masks in public} but his wacko childhood was something he didn't want his children to have.

As for Rowe, IMO, those kids were nothing but a great chunk of money to her.

Gosh, I cringe to think of any of them getting custody.


Sadly these kids are a big chunk of money for whomever gets them and you can bet that quite a few of them will try just for the money...sad.

[JD1974]

A biological mother of an adopted child may be "blood related", but no judge is going to return that child to the biological mother who hasn't seen them since birth. That child is going to someone in the adopting family.

I've never seen a court take "blood relation" into consideration, rather it's the best interest of the children. It wouldn't seem DR is interested enough to even attempt gaining custody unless it's about the money which is still unclear given her recent interview & she is not the biological mother to Blanket.

She doesn't need money & just wants to be left alone on her ranch with her horses in one breath, but she wants a reality show in the next?

TMZ is reporting the children have expressed they want to live with their grandparents. The grandparents are grandparents to all three children. No court is going to split them up & DR has no legitimate claim to Blanket.

They're old enough to make their feelings known on the matter and it will carry weight. She doesn't know her own children & apparently didn't want to, otherwise she wouldn't have tried to have her rights terminated. JMHO, which won't matter a twit because the courts will decide & I wish them infinite wisdom when they do.



The difference here is, the biological mother still has her parental rights. In a normal adoption the bio parents rights are severed.

[JD1974]

I think Grace is much much more than that. I read that all three of the children call her mom and she has been consistently in their lives since their births.

I think MJ has set it up in his Will that Grace be given custody of his children.

imo


One parent cannot use a will to sever a biological parents rights. Honestly think about it, what if you had children with your husband, divorced and he recieved custody, he dies and in his will he leaves YOUR children to someone else...no judge will let that happen.

[JD1974]

I agree. IMO, no wise and concerned Judge is going to separate these three children either. He/she will not take two of them and place them with Rowe (the no show mom) and leave Blanket behind.

imo


Sadly they separate children all the time. If a mother has 3 children by 3 different fathers and the mother dies, chances are each father (if they are fit) would get custody of each of their children.

[JD1974]

ummm, yes you can:

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/objectId/EA2707C0-AFE9-4D7E-88E71D0951B8FFF3/309/298/ART/




Dear friends of the family were named as guardian to my youngest brother (10 years younger than me), until I was old enough and settled enough to be named.

That is when there isn't a biological parent in the picture. In my will it states my children will go to my mother, now if I die does that mean my husband cannot have his own children and that they go to my mother? Won't happen.

[JD1974]

It's absurd to think Debbie Rowe would have any chance of getiing custody and even more disgusting to think money would drive her to try!!! She has not been apart of their lives and hopefully no court would give her custody.


She is still their biological mother and she has parental rights.

[JD1974]

I agree I think it's no different than when a single woman gets in vitro with a donors eggs and sperm. You can't say they are his and then change your mind because he died.



You are missing a huge point though, she actually has parental rights. Sperm and egg donors do not, invitro donors that is....

[R~O~S]

These are not normal circumstances. Obviously your husband has contact with your children.

It depends on the circumstances as the prevailing rule is "in the best interest of the children" so this is NOT going to be automatic.
There is going to be real battle in court on this.

Agreed! In divorce cases, the children do not automatically go to the divorced spouse especially if they've not kept contact with the children.

She tried to sever her own parental rights, the only reason she still has them is because the judge wouldn't allow it.

She never took advantage of the visitation rights she had. She was entitled to see them once a month, she never bothered.

She's popped up time and again claiming concern for the children only to crawl back under that rock when a new financial agreement was reached and she'll do so again.

She'll contest it if a guardian was named, but it will only be for the money. Can you imagine, she has the house plastered with pictures of her "babies". Not one of them is of her children, dogs & horses and she calls them her "babies".

The woman has a zero balance on maternal instincts.

[SDMermaid]

I'm shocked with all the money MJ gave her that she isn' leaving in a nice place:confused:


Yes - I read that at one time her wall was covered with the children and she took them down to replace them with her animals. Also the description of the place she owns says it looks impoverished.

[SDMermaid]

But I'm talking about a pure black man having kids with a white women not a mixed man or women having kids with a white man or a white woman. If a mixed woman has kids with a white man with blonde hair most likely child will be light skin and probably with light eyes. Never have I seen a black (not mixed) having kids with white blonde woman and then the kid comes out to be blonde with blue eyes. If you can find a pic of a couple that has a child like this I would be interested to see it. I would be very shocked to find out that MJ is the real bio father of all of his kids now I don't care how he got them or made them but I think it was not right to lie about it if he's not ashamed of how he got/made the kids why lie? Only time will tell when the kids get older who they really look like. It's really hard to say what the 3rd child looks like because their isn't a clear pic of him anywhere. Now If they aren't the bio kids of MJ doesn't that make MJ's parents or sisters and brothers first in line for the inheritance?




That means nothing I am mixed and my brother is mixed. My children look more ethnic and my niece has blonde hair and blue eyes. (We know it's my brothers child because he passed away and in order for my niece to get her benefits she had to take a DNA test). Also my mother and all her siblings have the same parents. My aunt and uncle have milk chocolate skin tones and my mother and her youngest sister are light skinned like me. Anyone that thinks skin color or hair or eye color can betray your race is sadly mistaken.

[Jupiter]

MJ's kids now:

http://www.celebtots.com/files/2009/06/spl104102_001-michael-jackson-children.jpg



And you're saying they don't look caucasian? They look caucasian to me.

[Citygirl]

But I'm talking about a pure black man having kids with a white women not a mixed man or women having kids with a white man or a white woman. If a mixed woman has kids with a white man with blonde hair most likely child will be light skin and probably with light eyes. Never have I seen a black (not mixed) having kids with white blonde woman and then the kid comes out to be blonde with blue eyes. If you can find a pic of a couple that has a child like this I would be interested to see it. I would be very shocked to find out that MJ is the real bio father of all of his kids now I don't care how he got them or made them but I think it was not right to lie about it if he's not ashamed of how he got/made the kids why lie? Only time will tell when the kids get older who they really look like. It's really hard to say what the 3rd child looks like because their isn't a clear pic of him anywhere. Now If they aren't the bio kids of MJ doesn't that make MJ's parents or sisters and brothers first in line for the inheritance?


OK..one last time..there is no blood/sperm/DNA/genes of Michael Jackson in either of his first 2 children. He is not the biological father of either of them. He was married to their mother when they were born and therefore his name is likely on the birth certificate..makin them by law..his children.
For all you that think these children look like any of Michael's family..please seek medical attention at once.

[Citygirl]

Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. :laugh:


Hey sweetness..I guess we will see what we will see later on down the line, huh?

[~layla~]

Id just like to say I do not want those kids going to the Jackson grandparents....

[Amy S.]

I saw Latoya on the news and she said that the house was not rented by Michael. It was rented by AIG (iirc), the production company.

Then, the news reported that Mrs. Jackson had contacted Grace to see if she knew where the money is that Michael always had hidden in the house. I wondered why Grace would have went to the news with that, but if she is no longer the nanny, maybe she would have.

[RayStar]

Really? Well, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she tries to gain custody of them, and you can be SURE to money would be the MAIN DRIVING FORCE behind it all.

IMO
Has Debbie made any public comments on regaining custody? If there is a custody battle, I bet a lot of money will be spent on lawyers.

[n/t]

of her son's three children, CNN has confirmed.

[~layla~]

Huh? OK, but since you probably don't know any more about the whole situation than the next guy on the street, except for what you've read in the gossip mags, or reported by the "media", I doubt you're qualified to know what's best!

MO

oh really?
How about Michael himself in interviews stating the abuse he endured as a young boy/man under the oh so watchful eye of Katherine and the iron hand of the oh so gentle Joe.

pssssh... GTHO.

[~layla~]

Really? Well, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she tries to gain custody of them, and you can be SURE to money would be the MAIN DRIVING FORCE behind it all.

IMO

Really? REALLY?? And you would know Debbies "main driving force" how?

[mrsmcgoo]

Perhaps you could supply us with a credible link to even one of those facts you've stated?? TIA :confused:

I posted the link here yesterday, no biggie though, I can link it again for you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/28/debbie-rowe-michael-is-no_n_222027.html

http://www.watoday.com.au/lifestyle/people/michael-jacksons-children-not-his-20090629-d1r9.html

Lots more available, but I will leave those up to you to search.


:thumbsup:

[gemsbmw]

OK..one last time..there is no blood/sperm/DNA/genes of Michael Jackson in either of his first 2 children. He is not the biological father of either of them. He was married to their mother when they were born and therefore his name is likely on the birth certificate..makin them by law..his children.
For all you that think these children look like any of Michael's family..please seek medical attention at once.


I knew he was not the father! I bet he is not the father of the 3rd.. Would the REAL father come forward.....

[mrsmcgoo]

I just read an article at Huff Post where Debbie is quoted as saying "I was just a vessell. I don't want them and don't expect to see them ever again."

I read that also. That is so sad for these children, which will one day read those words.

:crying:

[Citygirl]

Perhaps you could supply us with a credible link to even one of those facts you've stated?? TIA :confused:


Here is one for ya..was posted before by a nice poster..I guess you missed it..
and before I go..are you here to discuss and give your opinions on this man..
or are you just hear to bait and argue with other posters?

http://www.watoday.com.au/lifestyle/people/michael-jacksons-children-not-his-20090629-d1r9.html

[warhorse46]

He is their father. Sperm donor does not a father make. Ask all of these children living without their "fathers/sperm donors." MO

Incorrect, sperm donor DOES make a father. It does not make a Dad tho. A Dad is the one who supports the children, goes to their sports games/practices, dance lessons/recitals, helps with homework, gives hugs & says "I love you", kisses them good night, etc.

[warhorse46]

Just want to add info

Janet Jackson is also considered to be very business savvy. She is a classy lady.

Rebbie has been married for 40 years to her HS Sweetheart with 3 children.

Tito's sons are the singing group 3T and Rebbie's daughters are the group "Geneva" formerly X-girls. Her son is a solo artist


I don't think Janet was a very classy lady in 2004 @ the Super Bowl when she encountered her "wardrobe malfunction". Nor was she very classy when she refused to issue an apology without the phrase wardrobe malfunction to the network & that caused lots of people to lose their jobs & Janet to be dropped from the Grammy Show.

<<As a result of the incident, CBS would only allow Jackson and Timberlake to appear during the 46th Grammy Awards ceremony if they each made a public apology to the network, without attributing the incident to a "wardrobe malfunction". Timberlake issued an apology, but Jackson refused.[109] Jermaine Dupri resigned from his position on the Grammy Awards committee as a result.[110] The controversy halted plans for Jackson to star in a made-for-TV biopic on the life on singer Lena Horne for ABC-TV. Though Horne was reportedly displeased by the Super Bowl incident and insisted that ABC pull Jackson from the project, according to Jackson's representatives, she withdrew from the project willingly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Jackson#2004.E2.80.932005:_Super_Bowl_XXXVII I_and_Damita_Jo >>

[warhorse46]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/father

fa·ther (fä'thər)
n.

A male person whose sperm unites with an egg, resulting in the conception of a child.
A man who adopts a child.
A man who raises a child.



The first one is a father. The other two are Dads. One does not need to be a sperm donor to be a Dad.

[Citygirl]

The children are with Michael's parents and deservedly so. They will be embraced with love and understanding. The Jackson clan is huge and there's enough love and some to spare.


Are you watchin Dateline right now..they didn't embrace Michael with love and understanding..how do you expect them to change their colors now..
this is so sad to watch MJ talk about how scared he was of his daddy..he would throw up and sometimes faint he was so scared.
And this is the family that should be raising 3 young children..He** No!

[LILMANMAX]

DR has never wanted the children and that will not change now. JMO
Maybe another chunk of change but not the children.

She does not stand a snowball chance of custody. JMO

[warhorse46]

Not according to the reference source. Times have changed, circumstances have changed. People no longer consider only sire = father. MO


That is right, times have changed, there is a difference between a father & a dad. For centuries fathers had no hand in the day to day raising of their offspring. Now they do & that makes them a dad. And I think MJ was neither a father (sperm donor) nor a dad. IMO he was their next of kin on paper only, which is legal.

[Mamie]

You may want to add.... we do know all the CRAP & LIES MJ spewed throughout the years and we do know he FED and PLAYED the media. IMO

Whether MJ was a twisted perverted freak or not is irrelevant at this point. The only reason so many believe he is, is because of his words and actions. No one elses. He deserves nothing less than FULL CREDIT for all of it. IMO


I also noticed you conveniently left out all the stuff LaToya once said publicly that corroborated the molestation allegations of all the alleged victims.
IMO

And yet.................MJ still draws a crowd bigger than any of us here and he will live on in all of us, even you because you're still writing about him.

But LaToya is a whole other show (to borrow a phrase from Oprah).:rolleyes: JMO

[warhorse46]

You certainly have the right to your opinion, but you are wrong on more than one account in your above statement - IMO.


Actually it is all irrelevant @ this point in time since MJ is no longer among the living & for sure has no contact with the children anymore.

[CindR]

Some minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.

Good point.

[SDMermaid]

I feel sad that MJ was their parent. Maybe now they will have one that is more together and maybe they will have a chance to grow up and stay in one place and won't be so sheltered. I think MJ didn't want them to watch tv because he was afraid of his kids hearing about news stories about how odd MJ was.


Actually it is all irrelevant @ this point in time since MJ is no longer among the living & for sure has no contact with the children anymore.

[Foxglove]

So we know for fact that these arent michaels bio children? I dont think they are but i wasnt sure if anyone had come out and said it for fact. JMO

They are Michael's children. His former wife Lisa Marie Presley has spoken out about what a passionate lover he was with her....and unless he was sterile, why wouldn't they be his? I don't believe he was sterile but I think he chose two white women to carry his children because he wanted them to look as white as possible. They can be his children without being dark. His father was of mixed race and has one brown and one Green eye.IMO

[SDMermaid]

I 2nd that lol!

OK..one last time..there is no blood/sperm/DNA/genes of Michael Jackson in either of his first 2 children. He is not the biological father of either of them. He was married to their mother when they were born and therefore his name is likely on the birth certificate..makin them by law..his children.
For all you that think these children look like any of Michael's family..please seek medical attention at once.

[SDMermaid]

I don't care if he isn't the bio dad or not but he lied about it that's what I have a problem with. If he didn't want us to know then he should have shut his mouth but he went on TV and said that they were made the old fashion way and that they are his bio kids. I think I heard it when he was doing the doc with Bashir.


If I wanted to get personal I could in fact post a pic for you with my niece whose father is black and my sister -- my niece has blonde hair and blue eyes. Also told you about my son who hair has since darkened as he got older but looked white with light hair and blue eyes. There are many black people in this country right now who pass for white just as there are hispanics who can pass for white. It depends on the dominant gene. I ask again -- what difference does it make since MJ is legally their FATHER?

ETA: Made it back in time to edit

Do you remember these twins?

Genetics experts say that in most cases a mixed-race woman’s eggs will be a mixture of genes for both black and white skin.

However, much more rarely, the eggs may contain genes for predominantly one skin colour. In this case, Ms Knight has released two such eggs - one with predominantly dark pigmentation genes and one with predominantly fair genes.

http://www.blisstree.com/geneticsandhealth/twins-with-different-skin-color-genes/

[SDMermaid]

I think it's even sadder that MJ didn't want his kids to have a mother:cursing: If he did he would have gotten married and had kids with someone that wanted kids.


I read that also. That is so sad for these children, which will one day read those words.

:crying:

[SDMermaid]

Really a loving caring father that didn't provide them with a stable life? Moving them from home to home and out of the country? Who was watching the kids when Grace was pumping Daddy MJ's stomach more then one time because he was popping too many pills?:cursing:

Wow - I cannot believe you all are still talking about this.

Michael Jackson is the REAL FATHER. He raised, loved, cared and supported them. Those children love him. he loved them and was the ONLY PARENT they knew. :angry:

After those vile comments made by Debbie Rowe this morning IMO she is NOT a REAL mother. It takes more than giving birth to a child to make a mother just as it takes more than sperm to be a father.

DR is not a even a decent human being to make statements such as she did where the children can read them or be teased about it. She should be utterly ashamed of herself.

Some of you don't show any compassion at all and that is sad !! JMO

:rose: For the children

[Foxglove]

The News of The World with the supposed interview with Debbie, makes The National Enquirer look like an upmarket publication.

I definitely believe they are Michael's children even if he couldn't stand to touch Debbie because Lisa Marie said he was one heck of a lover so
whatever the case, they were Michael's children in every sense of the word.IMO

[SDMermaid]

I can't wait until she comes out with a book I would be interested to see how good of a father he really was and how much he took care of the kids and not the nannies.


No doubt he was their legal father...but as far as parenting...I would say their only parent was the nanny.

And oh boy...the stories she can tell! Should be very interesting indeed, should she ever decide to write a book. Jackson's hard core fans adored Grace...watch how fast she goes from beloved to "disgruntled employee" ROFL!

[SDMermaid]

So you are saying People magazine is wrong... of course you would anything about MJ that's not postive has to be wrong to you:mad:

As long as you realize the article that was published was grossly inaccurate.

[SDMermaid]

Thanks for clearing that up:wink:

An adopted child has the same legal rights of inheritence as a "bio" child.

Whether or not Michael Jackson was the biological father of these three children is totally and completely legally irrelevant. He is legally their father. The three kids are his legal next of kin.

[SDMermaid]

Why did MJ have anything to do with his father once he was 18? I don't get it. I had a mean father like MJ and I had nothing to do with him personally after I turned 19 and moved out of the house. My mom was still married to him and holidays was the only time I saw him which was once or 2 times a yr until my mom finally left him and then he killed himself and then finally I was at peace because he threatened to kill my mom if she left him. MJ had enough money for his mom to leave his dad I don't know why she is still married to that a hole!


Are you watchin Dateline right now..they didn't embrace Michael with love and understanding..how do you expect them to change their colors now..
this is so sad to watch MJ talk about how scared he was of his daddy..he would throw up and sometimes faint he was so scared.
And this is the family that should be raising 3 young children..He** No!

[SDMermaid]

She was only being paid off to keep MJ's secrets about how his children were made IMO now that reports are coming out that she might not be the bio mother.


DR has never wanted the children and that will not change now. JMO
Maybe another chunk of change but not the children.

She does not stand a snowball chance of custody. JMO

[SDMermaid]

I can't see MJ being a passionate lover:lol:


They are Michael's children. His former wife Lisa Marie Presley has spoken out about what a passionate lover he was with her....and unless he was sterile, why wouldn't they be his? I don't believe he was sterile but I think he chose two white women to carry his children because he wanted them to look as white as possible. They can be his children without being dark. His father was of mixed race and has one brown and one Green eye.IMO

[Jupiter]

Just saw this on TMZ:

Below quoted from TMZ, here is the link;

http://www.tmz.com/

"We've learned Michael Jackson was not the biological father of any of his children. And Debbie Rowe is not the biological mother of the two kids she bore for Michael. All three children were conceived in vitro -- outside the womb.

Multiple sources deeply connected to the births tell us Michael was not the sperm donor for any of his kids. Debbie's eggs were not used. She was merely the surrogate, and paid well for her services in the births of Michael Jr. and Paris.

In the case of Prince Michael II (the youngest), we're told the surrogate was never told of the identity of the "receiving parent" -- Michael Jackson. Three days after Prince was born at Grossmont Hospital in San Diego County, Jackson's lawyer came to the hospital to pick the baby up and deliver him to Michael.

We do not know if Jackson chose the sperm or egg donors or if he even knew who they were.

Although Rowe is not the biological mother, it's not a slam dunk that she would lose a custody battle. This type of case has never been litigated in California courts. Since Rowe was married to Jackson when Michael Jr. and Paris were born, there's a presumption that she's the biological parent. That presumption can be rebutted by other evidence.

We know there are documents outlining the whole arrangement for the birth of all three kids. Nonetheless, it's still an open issue with the courts. "

[Jupiter]

Quoted from TMZ: http://www.tmz.com/

Here is another quote from TMZ;

"We've learned Michael Jackson never adopted his three children, even though he's not the biological father.

We broke the story that neither Jackson nor Debbie Rowe are the biological parents of Michael Jr. and Paris. And Michael was not the biological parent of Prince Michael II either.

Now here's the rub. We've learned Jackson never filed legal papers to adopt any of his children. Legal experts tell us Jackson would be presumed the father but it's not conclusive by any means.

As for why Jackson didn't formally adopt -- we're told at the time the kids were born there was no third party whom he believed would try and claim custody. For some reason, Jackson never thought Debbie Rowe would mount a custody challenge."

[FreeCell]

I think it's even sadder that MJ didn't want his kids to have a mother:cursing: If he did he would have gotten married and had kids with someone that wanted kids.


I think it's sad too.

But there are alot of women who intentionally become pregnant knowing their child will grow up without a father.

i.e. using a sperm donor or not using birth control when involved with a married man or a man that is clearly not ready to be a father.

[warhorse46]

Some minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.



Thank you, I see you took the time to read that quote in my location. It fits many people IMO. As I stated previously, whos dna created these three children is all irrelevant now. Legally they were MJ's children.

[jewel6]

look at this.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31666253/ns/entertainment-access_hollywood/ The dermatologist? :scared:

[Jupiter]

Everything is so weird. Poor kids.

[starling]

Everything is so weird. Poor kids.

I find it so odd that the children's photos from (obvious) parties/gatherings with others are now in every tabloid mag & on the net. WHO is selling/giving/sharing these?
I know MJ sheltering & masking them was his strange thing.. but he's not even put to rest & his kid's pics are everywhere

JMO

[Jupiter]

I find it so odd that the children's photos from (obvious) parties/gatherings with others are now in every tabloid mag & on the net. WHO is selling/giving/sharing these?
I know MJ sheltering & masking them was his strange thing.. but he's not even put to rest & his kid's pics are everywhere

JMO

Yes, very sad. I really feel sorry for those kids.

[starling]

look at this.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31666253/ns/entertainment-access_hollywood/ The dermatologist? :scared:


from your link~

..."TMZ also claims that Jackson never filed the paperwork necessary to adopt the children"

:read: goodness, he made no safety net whatsoever it appears

JMO

[Debb]

Eveybody who knew Michael says he loved his kids more than anything. They were the center of his universe. Okay, I'm trying to buy it. It sounds right, but did he actual function as a full time parent? I'm not so sure.

Last night I saw an old interview of Michael. Blanket was an infant. Michael was feeding him a bottle of formula while covering the baby's face with a piece of fabric. I assume to protect the face for security reasons. Anyway, the way he handled the baby was so bizarre. He was so awkward and uneasy holding and feeding the baby. It was obvious that he did not usually do it. (He had 2 older children by then) The interviewer even said it made him nervous. Blanket was at least 5-6 months old. This was in London on the same trip he held Blanket over the balcony. It just struck me as very curious. I do hope those kids have received some similance of a normal upbringing.

Also, how much do they know about their heritage? If this is all a big surprise to them, then we can only question why Michael did not prepare the children for eventually finding out about their biological parents. It would be sad for them to find out by googling.

If it's true that his request was for his mother to have the children, then he really did not consider the welfare to the children. Even if Joe Jackson were never to touch the kids, his pure hateful and inappropiate demeanor is enough to make him unfit nonetheless.

[SKARDYKAT]

from your link~

..."TMZ also claims that Jackson never filed the paperwork necessary to adopt the children"

:read: goodness, he made no safety net whatsoever it appears

JMO
I believe that report was regarding the first two children. Debbie had the children - she was married to Michael = he would be the legal father. You don't adopt your own children.

[jewel6]

I saw debbie rowe in a interview and she said it was her idea to mask the kids to protect the identity. i dont have a link because i saw it while i was traveling. jmo

[jewel6]

another thing is has anybody googled the drs picture? I did and its kind of startling to son #1. jmo

[n/t]

What a mess. Those poor kids. :sad:

[n/t]

another thing is has anybody googled the drs picture? I did and its kind of startling to son #1. jmo

Very much so.

http://media-files.gather.com/images/d567/d803/d745/d224/d96/f3/inter.jpg

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/127/97/mjchildren1.0.0.0x0.400x312.jpeg

[jewel6]

Very much so.

http://media-files.gather.com/images/d567/d803/d745/d224/d96/f3/inter.jpg

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/127/97/mjchildren1.0.0.0x0.400x312.jpeg

There is one when he was younger, but i didnt want to post it its more startling. just google his practice. jmo

[Carol25]

I believe Grandma will take care of his children well with help from his nanny. I just hope those 200 songs are secured and will not be published by Joe!

Let the children be left alone and not be troubled. And may Michael dance and sing his way to Eternity strong and healthy forever and ever.

[Debb]

I'm actually quite curious about something. Michael's death has brought out adoring fans from all parts of the world, but how do African American's feel about Michael going to such great lengths to have children with Caucasian features. Not to mention the great lengths he went to in order to eradicate his own features, nose, hair straigtening etc. Do African Americans just ignore that part of Michael? Any thoughts?

[SKARDYKAT]

I'm actually quite curious about something. Michael's death has brought out adoring fans from all parts of the world, but how do African American's feel about Michael going to such great lengths to have children with Caucasian features. Not to mention the great lengths he went to in order to eradicate his own features, nose, hair straigtening etc. Do African Americans just ignore that part of Michael? Any thoughts?

A2 is right. They said a lot about that at the BET awards and on news programs (with Sharfton). If you get to see the re-run, watch Jamie Fox and his statement after dancing the Thriller. It was quite touching.

[Debb]

A2 is right. They said a lot about that at the BET awards and on news programs (with Sharfton). If you get to see the re-run, watch Jamie Fox and his statement after dancing the Thriller. It was quite touching.


I caught some of the BET Award show. I'll try to locate the part you are describing.

[Cornblossom]

I'm actually quite curious about something. Michael's death has brought out adoring fans from all parts of the world, but how do African American's feel about Michael going to such great lengths to have children with Caucasian features. Not to mention the great lengths he went to in order to eradicate his own features, nose, hair straigtening etc. Do African Americans just ignore that part of Michael? Any thoughts?I have watched interviews with African Americans and all of them(the ones interviewed) say,"Michael belonged to us,he is ours......."

[nsm]

some of the news reports are saying those kids are NOT his biological kids OR Debbie Rowes. They are very young now, but when they get older...think of how they will feel! They have absolutly NO link to a biological family tree. They are going to be in limbo as to their lineage. Some kids are totally messed up when they dont know who their father is but have a mother. It just seems so wrong to me.

[nsm]

Diana Ross as next in line to get the kids? MJ seemed like a tormented person. Who could really imagine what went on in that family! For him to totally disregard his brothers and sisters. I can understand the father not being included....but what about the others?

I wonder what Debbie Rowe will think now that his will specifically made sure she got nothing. Maybe she will be angry and go after the kids just because she can. Maybe she was being so low key because she thought she may get a big payout in the will.

This is better than a soap opera.

[Carol25]

I have watched interviews with African Americans and all of them(the ones interviewed) say,"Michael belonged to us,he is ours......."

And to that I say, "Foolishness!" I believe MJ belonged to anyone who became his fan regardless of any color or nationality. And I believe he had a goodness in him that he would say that himself. IMO.

[SKARDYKAT]

some of the news reports are saying those kids are NOT his biological kids OR Debbie Rowes. They are very young now, but when they get older...think of how they will feel! They have absolutly NO link to a biological family tree. They are going to be in limbo as to their lineage. Some kids are totally messed up when they dont know who their father is but have a mother. It just seems so wrong to me.

There are many of us out in the world who are adopted or are the result of doner bio parents. I have no link to bio family and am not messed up. I think all such children go through identity issues as do all teens. How we think of ourselves is learned behavior. Depending on how they are handled is the important thing.
Your concerns are valid, because some families aren't honest. I hope the Jacksons are sensible because these kids could suffer from publicity.

[Debb]

If the Diana Ross part is true, I just wonder about the forethought in placing young children with his mother who is almost 80 and Diana who is almost 70. They may love the children, but it is very likely they may not live to raise the children. What then? They then go to Joe? I hope much thought and planning is devoted to figure out what is TRULY the best arrangment.

[Cornblossom]

And to that I say, "Foolishness!" I believe MJ belonged to anyone who became his fan regardless of any color or nationality. And I believe he had a goodness in him that he would say that himself. IMO.
That's what I thought too......he didn't "belong" to anyone.

[CindR]

I have watched interviews with African Americans and all of them(the ones interviewed) say,"Michael belonged to us,he is ours......."

Jamie Foxx is the only person I've heard say that. Who are the others you have heard say it?

[Citygirl]

There are many of us out in the world who are adopted or are the result of doner bio parents. I have no link to bio family and am not messed up. I think all such children go through identity issues as do all teens. How we think of ourselves is learned behavior. Depending on how they are handled is the important thing.
Your concerns are valid, because some families aren't honest. I hope the Jacksons are sensible because these kids could suffer from publicity.


I agree with what you said..but you had a mother tho she was adopted..they have none..and you had a father tho he was adopted..now they have none.
They have no siblings of their own..all they have actually is each other..
I can't for the life of me see how they are gonna have any roots or anyone that they will truly know loves them in the years to come..and they are so young..they need a stable family so badly..the more I think about this..the more I fear for them..
and who knows where they stand from an educational stand point..they need structure and love and a feeling of belonging..
This is just all so sad to think of..

[Cornblossom]

Jamie Foxx is the only person I've heard say that. Who are the others you have heard say it?there was also a minister from Gary,IN who said it........some lady in a crowd who said it.........a gentleman walking down a Chicago street........and others..sorry I didn't catch their names.

[Patriot]

Diana Ross as next in line to get the kids? MJ seemed like a tormented person. Who could really imagine what went on in that family! For him to totally disregard his brothers and sisters. I can understand the father not being included....but what about the others?

I wonder what Debbie Rowe will think now that his will specifically made sure she got nothing. Maybe she will be angry and go after the kids just because she can. Maybe she was being so low key because she thought she may get a big payout in the will.

This is better than a soap opera.

Only sadder 'cause it's real life. As usual, the kids will be the ones who suffer the most.

[disneyfreak]

I do not speak for African Americans however I will tell you being in a mixed marriage and having two beautiful mixed children; it has been my experience and others that I know; that they are by far more accepted more positively by Black Americans than others. It is what it is. :shrug: JMHO

Black Americans Embrace the King of Pop:

http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=106037895&m=106037888

I think it is geographical. I have a friend in the North East in a mixed marriage. The African American community really cut off her husband once he married a Caucasian woman.

[Ice Cycle]

I also did not say ALL -- it was a general statement however Black Americans have supported MJ since the beginning including through the false allegations. JMHO

Well I at least heard J.F. say it and thought it was uncalled for. As M.J. success was supported by all and all those Thriller albums sold in the 80's were not dominated by Black Americans, not that it matters.

[aproudmom]

She sounds like a real nut job..IMO

http://www.inquisitr.com/27988/nona-paris-lola-ankhesenamun-jackson-claims-she-was-mjs-secret-wife/
Nona Paris Lola Ankhesenamun Jackson claims she was MJ’s secret wife


http://www.blackcelebkids.com/2008/05/29/nona-paris-lola-jackson-loses-again/
Nona Paris Lola Jackson(pictured),the woman who claims to be the mother of all of Michael Jackson’s kids, has lost yet another battle in court. A judge on Wednesday decided not to grant Nona, who describes herself as a ” black Jew born in Britain,” motion for a restraining order against Deborah Rowe, the real mother of two of Jackson’s kids:

Nona Paris Lola Ankhesenamun Jackson Claims to be MJ's Widow
http://bashhh.blogspot.com/2009/07/nona-paris-lola-ankhesenamun-jackson.html

[aproudmom]

http://www.bittenandbound.com/2009/07/01/nona-paris-lola-ankhesenamun-jackson-michael-jackson-secret-wife-photos/

Nona Paris Lola Ankhesenamun Jackson filed a lawsuit this morning in Los Angeles Superior Court, claiming to be Michael Jackson’s secret wife.:laugh:

Following Jackson’s death on June 25, 2009, Nona Jackson posted an online message, stating:

I have become a widow, I have paid ultimately for loving Michael Jackson but it is all I have to give him, the gift of eternity. He had to be loved even once in this lifetime and I have done that. I too, can die in peace some day.

Michael Jackson’s wife, Nona Paris Lola Ankhesenamun Jackson.

[aproudmom]

Al Malnik Godfather to Blanket Jackson, NOT Father (PHOTOS, VIDEO)

Al Malnik appeared on The Today Show this morning with photos and video of Michael Jackson and his children. The refuted mobster from Miami is godfather to Prince Michael Jackson II also known as Blanket.

[aproudmom]

This is getting crazier and crazier..I know MJ is the father of those children.even if not by blood..but the first time I saw this guys picture I wondered if it was true..

http://www.bittenandbound.com/2009/06/30/arnold-klein-md-is-michael-jackson-dermotologist-and-baby-daddy-photos/

[Ice Cycle]

Yes he did say it but what is uncalled for is the media frenzy going on. I think part of the misunderstanding some have is that many black artists feel MJ has been villified, dragged and raked over the coals by the media here in the US and were just making a point and most also believe the allegations against MJ were false in addition to questioning parentage. And most of what is being reported are rumors and innuendoes. It's a cultural thing and black people tend to at least wait until the dead is buried to say anything negative and have voiced that in their interviews. They were also concerned about MJ's children big-time and felt there was no respect given to his family and especially his children during their time of grief.

Not making excuses for him -- but they have a valid point. The media has been horrific with what they've done re: the children. Just horrible with no compassion. They're on an eating frenzy and could care about anyone they hurt in the process and this was their way of speaking out in support of MJ. JMO

Yes I agree but he is by far not the only one, P Diana, Brad & Angela and so on and is not any one specific race. It goes without saying that the Media (tabloids) are completely ridiculous but that's nothing new and most people are aware of that and right or wrong celebrities are aware of that when they choose that path.
Guess I'll end this as kind of all thread subject.

[Debb]

I just saw that Debbie Rowe is asking for custody of the two she had and Blanket too, if possible. I think it was CBS. I'll try to find a link.

www.cbsnews.com

[Shells2]

[QUOTE=aobtd;13240675]

Me too. Just appeared to me he had a bit of a problem because of the veil. I am sure the kids didn't wear veils in the house. :rolleyes:

The veils were Debbies idea.. she was quite upset when they stopped wearing them.

[Shells2]

Yes he did say it but what is uncalled for is the media frenzy going on. I think part of the misunderstanding some have is that many black artists feel MJ has been villified, dragged and raked over the coals by the media here in the US and were just making a point and most also believe the allegations against MJ were false in addition to questioning parentage. And most of what is being reported are rumors and innuendoes. It's a cultural thing and black people tend to at least wait until the dead is buried to say anything negative and have voiced that in their interviews. They were also concerned about MJ's children big-time and felt there was no respect given to his family and especially his children during their time of grief.

Not making excuses for him -- but they have a valid point. The media has been horrific with what they've done re: the children. Just horrible with no compassion. They're on an eating frenzy and could care about anyone they hurt in the process and this was their way of speaking out in support of MJ. JMO


It's not like anything has changed - or this is something new. Unfortunately the media has been like this for quite some time...

[fastpitch]

I do think that some of the Jacksons are capable of loving and raising the children, given the chance.

G'ma could have custody, but they could live elsewhere.

I can see DNA tests are going to be needed to see is Debby Rowe is even the biological mom. BUT, if she is on the birth certificate .....

Fortunately, MJ died in the US. Can you imagine if he had died in another country?

It is awful for children, under the best of circumstances.

I do think that the courts would split up the children. It happens all the time. moo

The kids would be in for real culture shock to go live with "their mom."

I never thought that anything could be worse than the Anna Nicole saga and her mother.

[Debb]

The article says that Rowe wants a court order to keep Joe Jackson away from the children. I think that is a great idea, regardless of who has them. If Katherine was not able to defend children from him when she was in her 20's and 30's, I doubt she is able to do it now.

Michael said in an interveiw that she would scream at Joe to stop, that he was going to kill the kids, but it didn't matter, he beat them anyway. He also described being thrown against a wall by his father. There was also verbal abuse. I don't know why people think time changes people. It doesn't change abusers, they only grow more hardened.

Katherine was a victim for many years. I suspect she still is. She knows Joe is a problem or she wouldn't have fudged on the guardianship papers regarding Joe's address.

[fastpitch]

In regards to Joe, I heard on the news that when Katherine took custody of the children, she put down Joe's address as "unknown."

Also, apparently you can just name anyone as guardian of your children?
I am not sure that D.R. knew she was in the will.

[4Life]

A separate hearing will be held July 13 on the custody of Jackson's three children, who are currently living with Katherine Jackson.

Beckloff today said that he might appoint a lawyer to represent the children.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/MichaelJackson/story?id=8009534&page=1

[Streetdreamer]

I am convinced the children should remain with Michael's mom. They're familiar with her and the remaining family including the other 28 grandchildren. If they go with Debbie Rowe it will be like moving to another planet, completely isolated to the rest of the family.

I dont understand the dilemma with the children going to the Jacksons. I don't believe they're at risk with them. I think people believe the hateful rumors despite the many declarations of how angelic Mother Jackson is. Her age is a factor that I would say puts the best interests of the entire family ahead of her own gain and I suspect Mrs. Rowe is purely out for her own gain. If Mrs. Rowe really wanted her kids, she would've been full throttle after them the second MJJ died. The first thing she should've said is "where are the kids" if she really cared.

There have been greedy bloodhounds and vultures after Michael, even in his death. I fully understand and have been convinced of Mrs. Jackson's competence and haste to protect Michael's best interest. Although, the fact she wasn't aware of a will makes me real curious.

[ish]

I can't see MJ being a passionate lover:lol:

I have to agree here, I think Lisa Marie may not want to look like the fool she may have been for marrying him. Reading most of what any other woman who has been involved with him has to say (Brooke Shields, Tatum O'Neal) sex was not high on his list of priorities. Maybe he was truly hot for Lisa Marie, I don't know, but my instincts say probably not.

Some of the comments from those who have been around Michael and his kids raise some red flags for me too. The son of Deepak Chopra was commenting on how his children would call out to him as he walked from one area to another in the home, "I love you Daddy, I love you Daddy" and another gentleman mentioned that when Micheal asked Paris to wait in another room while they talked "business" she insisted on coming in saying "I love you Daddy, I have to be near you" this seems strange to me, and I wonder if the need to hear the "I love you" was Michael's and that the kids had more or less been trained to that behavior. I think Michael had a great need to be "loved" and having children was to fulfill that need, more than the need to love someone else.

[ish]

Well, IMO, MJ thought of them as his property. He bought them. He gave all three of them his given name. He called the youngest one "blanket."

JMHO

Yes, for all who criticize Debbie Rowe for "selling" her children, Michael deserves the same for "buying" them. There was an exchange of money. Unless he had a physical reason making him unable to father children or was homosexual (like Clay Aiken) there was no resaon he should not have been able to father a child the old fashion way, then if the marriage or relationship went south and he maintained custody of the children, well at least they are his biological children.If he just wanted children why not adopt? Madonna does it, Angelina and Brad. I think one of the reasons is that Michael was used to buying what he wanted and he wanted children so he found someone who for whatever reason was willing to have them and in exchange for money turn them over to him. The marriage was a way to make the exchange of money for children look less obvious. According to reports, Michael also defaulted (or attempted to) on some of the payments to Debbie. that is also typical of his behavior, he has been sued many times in the past and I believe there are current lawsuits out there for non payment. Including payments to pharmacies.

[Luzianne]

Yes, for all who criticize Debbie Rowe for "selling" her children, Michael deserves the same for "buying" them. There was an exchange of money. Unless he had a physical reason making him unable to father children or was homosexual (like Clay Aiken) there was no resaon he should not have been able to father a child the old fashion way, then if the marriage or relationship went south and he maintained custody of the children, well at least they are his biological children.If he just wanted children why not adopt? Madonna does it, Angelina and Brad. I think one of the reasons is that Michael was used to buying what he wanted and he wanted children so he found someone who for whatever reason was willing to have them and in exchange for money turn them over to him. The marriage was a way to make the exchange of money for children look less obvious. According to reports, Michael also defaulted (or attempted to) on some of the payments to Debbie. that is also typical of his behavior, he has been sued many times in the past and I believe there are current lawsuits out there for non payment. Including payments to pharmacies.

I heard someone say on TV last night (sorry, can't remember who or what show), that Michael had said he wanted blonde, blue-eyed children. I think Paris looks a lot like Debbie Rowe. All three of them are adorable.

[Luzianne]

I have to agree here, I think Lisa Marie may not want to look like the fool she may have been for marrying him. Reading most of what any other woman who has been involved with him has to say (Brooke Shields, Tatum O'Neal) sex was not high on his list of priorities. Maybe he was truly hot for Lisa Marie, I don't know, but my instincts say probably not.



Debbie Rowe says she and Michael never had sex. I think Michael was infatuated with the idea of being married/having children with Elvis' daughter. I think if he did have sex with Lisa Marie it is because he really liked the idea of the King of Pop having a child who was the grandchild of the King of Rock. So I think he tried to fake it to make that happen, but Lisa Marie refused to have a child with him so that ruined his plan.

I tend to think, like Brooke Shields said, that Michael was asexual. But then I read that Brooke Shields hadn't even seen Michael since Liz Taylor's wedding in 1991. That's a long time not to see a close friend. How much can you know about someone you didn't see for 18 years? He changed his appearance drastically after 1991; maybe he changed in other ways that Brooke didn't know about.

[Details]

Joe was abusive to his children 40 years ago. That is a true and its awful, but it is a very long time to hold a grudge. Has he hurt anyone in the last few decades? I thought that his children had come to terms with the past (including Michael) and let it ago. Am I wrong about that? Has the family not forgiven him? Not forgotten, but forgiven? Does anyone (in the family) think he is still dangerous?He hasn't had custody of children for the last few decades, right?

I wouldn't want a child abuser - particularly the one who abused me! - around my kids, being a parent to them to any degree at all. It's one thing to be around him as an adult - but to let him have access to kids - I personally wouldn't want that.

[Hanalei]

Great choice for a godfather. A mobster!:scared:

Al Malnik Godfather to Blanket Jackson, NOT Father (PHOTOS, VIDEO)

Al Malnik appeared on The Today Show this morning with photos and video of Michael Jackson and his children. The refuted mobster from Miami is godfather to Prince Michael Jackson II also known as Blanket.

[Tracian]

Joe was abusive to his children 40 years ago. That is a true and its awful, but it is a very long time to hold a grudge. Has he hurt anyone in the last few decades? I thought that his children had come to terms with the past (including Michael) and let it ago. Am I wrong about that? Has the family not forgiven him? Not forgotten, but forgiven? Does anyone (in the family) think he is still dangerous?


MJ spoke about his father, and it was not pretty. IMO, Joe is the reason that MJ did have problems emotionally.

MJ also never named Joe in his will...Never named him as a guardian; IMO, (and I believe the children should stay with the Jacksons) Joe should be kept away from them, unless someone is strong enough to ensure he will not hurt them physically or emotionally.

Joe Jackson, as a father does not impress me...the rest of the family, including Katherine...they love and care for those children, for Joe they are just another ticket to make money.

JMO..and all that, but I defend it to the ground!!!!

[sunstar]

This is getting crazier and crazier..I know MJ is the father of those children.even if not by blood..but the first time I saw this guys picture I wondered if it was true..

http://www.bittenandbound.com/2009/06/30/arnold-klein-md-is-michael-jackson-dermotologist-and-baby-daddy-photos/

I'm not seeing that much of a resemblance at all, especially if Debbie is the bio-mother. The children aren't that fair-skinned. :shrug: MOO

[Hanalei]

I can see how MJ would want to be the father of Elvis's grandchild. When I saw MJ and Lisa on MTV their kiss was really forced and like hurry up and let's get this over with IMO. I never bought that relationship and they never lived together.


http://www.people.com/people/article/0,26334,1043284,00.html



Debbie Rowe says she and Michael never had sex. I think Michael was infatuated with the idea of being married/having children with Elvis' daughter. I think if he did have sex with Lisa Marie it is because he really liked the idea of the King of Pop having a child who was the grandchild of the King of Rock. So I think he tried to fake it to make that happen, but Lisa Marie refused to have a child with him so that ruined his plan.

I tend to think, like Brooke Shields said, that Michael was asexual. But then I read that Brooke Shields hadn't even seen Michael since Liz Taylor's wedding in 1991. That's a long time not to see a close friend. How much can you know about someone you didn't see for 18 years? He changed his appearance drastically after 1991; maybe he changed in other ways that Brooke didn't know about.

[Hanalei]

White kids can get tan I'm white and I have a tan.


I'm not seeing that much of a resemblance at all, especially if Debbie is the bio-mother. The children aren't that fair-skinned. :shrug: MOO

[Hanalei]

ITA with everything you said.:thumbsup:


Yes, for all who criticize Debbie Rowe for "selling" her children, Michael deserves the same for "buying" them. There was an exchange of money. Unless he had a physical reason making him unable to father children or was homosexual (like Clay Aiken) there was no resaon he should not have been able to father a child the old fashion way, then if the marriage or relationship went south and he maintained custody of the children, well at least they are his biological children.If he just wanted children why not adopt? Madonna does it, Angelina and Brad. I think one of the reasons is that Michael was used to buying what he wanted and he wanted children so he found someone who for whatever reason was willing to have them and in exchange for money turn them over to him. The marriage was a way to make the exchange of money for children look less obvious. According to reports, Michael also defaulted (or attempted to) on some of the payments to Debbie. that is also typical of his behavior, he has been sued many times in the past and I believe there are current lawsuits out there for non payment. Including payments to pharmacies.

[Hanalei]

Ok if this guy is the bio dad does he have a claim too? And after reading about how MJ kids would constantly tell MJ they loved him tells me how much MJ needed to hear that someone loved him because I bet his own dad didn't tell him that.


http://www.usmagazine.com/news/arnold-klein-not-michael-jackson-sperm-donor-to-best-of-my-knowledge-200987

[~layla~]

Yes, for all who criticize Debbie Rowe for "selling" her children, Michael deserves the same for "buying" them. There was an exchange of money. Unless he had a physical reason making him unable to father children or was homosexual (like Clay Aiken) there was no resaon he should not have been able to father a child the old fashion way, then if the marriage or relationship went south and he maintained custody of the children, well at least they are his biological children.If he just wanted children why not adopt? Madonna does it, Angelina and Brad. I think one of the reasons is that Michael was used to buying what he wanted and he wanted children so he found someone who for whatever reason was willing to have them and in exchange for money turn them over to him. The marriage was a way to make the exchange of money for children look less obvious. According to reports, Michael also defaulted (or attempted to) on some of the payments to Debbie. that is also typical of his behavior, he has been sued many times in the past and I believe there are current lawsuits out there for non payment. Including payments to pharmacies.

absolutely agreed.
Im sure DR wasnt the first person he asked to do this. Pay to have his kids.

I dont think the kids should go to Katherine.... possibly Janet.. because she has been able to separate life today and life back then.... she seems the only sane/psychologically helped sibling. Its not like she says he was perfect, only that he needed help or things were strange. So calling them out possibly made her less welcome, but at least it was honest.

and to all the stans... im especially surprised that the defense is so adamant and strong.
many of us dont believe he was innocent of the molestation, but are willing to understand not being convicted doesnt mean innocent, it means the evidence wasnt enough ... that doesnt mean it didnt happen, lots of money changed hands for the charges to just stop/go away.

funny how in so many cases (Anthonys', Peterson (e/w) etc) they are willing to jump on the "follow the money guilt train" and its all good.
ALWAYS follow the money. It wont fail to lead to the motivation/ambition of the issue at hand. Good or bad.

[starling]

Video: Dr Arnie Klein on LKL
http://www.americansuperstarmag.com/news/video-michael-jacksons-doctor-arnie-klein-on-cnns-larry-king-live

[Hanalei]

I really don't care if they are MJs bio kids are not but if he isn't then why lie about it on national tv like he did? MJ said that they were made with his sperm. For one I don't believe it because look what MJ did to his face he didn't even like the way he looked surely he wouldn't want his kids to have his features that he hated about himself. None of the kids have his real nose and that Jackson nose runs strong in the family genes. IMO Plus he wouldn't want his gets to have his skins problems and lupus either.

[~layla~]

I really don't care if they are MJs bio kids are not but if he isn't then why lie about it on national tv like he did? MJ said that they were made with his sperm. For one I don't believe it because look what MJ did to his face he didn't even like the way he looked surely he wouldn't want his kids to have his features that he hated about himself. None of the kids have his real nose and that Jackson nose runs strong in the family genes. IMO Plus he wouldn't want his gets to have his skins problems and lupus either.

bolded by me

That is what people do. Im not sure there is a truth telling soul in the whole city of LA that has any ties to the industry. Maybe its me, but Im guessing lying is a skill learned as soon as you step foot on that type of soil.

[RootBeer]

I hope some DNA tests are done soon to find out who the biological parents of these children are.

[Firehead11]

I hope some DNA tests are done soon to find out who the biological parents of these children are.

Why? Do you really think it is important?

[Tracian]

Ok if this guy is the bio dad does he have a claim too? And after reading about how MJ kids would constantly tell MJ they loved him tells me how much MJ needed to hear that someone loved him because I bet his own dad didn't tell him that.


http://www.usmagazine.com/news/arnold-klein-not-michael-jackson-sperm-donor-to-best-of-my-knowledge-200987


Love is a word that is commonly spoke in my family, children, parents, siblings, spouses...

We say it often, because you never know when will be the last time you have the chance.

[Tracian]

Why? Do you really think it is important?


No, IMO, it is not.

What concerns me is Joe Jackson having enfluence on those children.

I hope Katherine is strong enough to keep him at arm's length.

[SKARDYKAT]

No, IMO, it is not.

What concerns me is Joe Jackson having enfluence on those children.

I hope Katherine is strong enough to keep him at arm's length.

Michael Jackson was savy in many ways. Including the execution of his will. I am betting he had a good talk with both his mother and Ms Ross when he delegated guardians.

[forensicfan]

There have been several children taken away from loving adoptive families, the only people they've known since birth, and given back to their biological parents.

Sometimes, the courts don't see things in the way many of us do. I think unless they can prove that Debbie Rowe will harm them, she will likely get custody of these kids. I'm not a fan of hers either but I do think that the courts will award her custody.

While I am sure Katherine would be a good choice, I also do not think Joe is and even though they live separate lives, they are still legally married, aren't they? So what happens to the kids if Katherine does get custody and then something happens to her? Does Joe get them by default? Something to think about.

[Firehead11]

I just love it when people do not read things provided to them.

Have you read the links where DR states that she didn't want the children? She had them for MJ because she knew he wanted children. How about the link where it tells how it was DR's idea to have veil on the children for their own protection?

There are many people in this world that do not want to have their own children or cannot have their own children. There are men and women who are compensated for whatever service they provided in achieving a child being born. Some people do this out of love. Some do it out of need and some are just money hungry.

I will wait to see if all 8 million has been paid to DR, because if it has and she is after more money then that will form one opinion but if she hasn't been paid in full, them pay her the damn balance and let her wait until the children are old enough to decide for themselves.

The only reason I can see DNA testing to be done is to find out if Klein is the father IF he is one of the doctors that kept suppling NJ with dangerous drugs. Then there may be circumstances that might come into play here that we are unaware of.

JMO

PS Hiya Tracian !

[GentleBreeze]

I think at this time DNA is a non-issue on all three of the children. This is a custody case determining who will get custody of Michael Jackson's children now that he has passed away. It is not a case to determine paternity.

And that will be what the Judge will try to determine. By law MJ has been the legal father to these children all of their lives.

I do hope the Jacksons and Rowe are trying to come to some amicable solution so save the two oldest children from further heartache. I hope this time it is done out of compassion, concern and not for a monetary payoff.

Separating three close siblings is not only, not the answer, but it is downright cruel and unusual punishment especially when there is no need for a separation.

So I hope they do remain where they feel more comfortable and loved and it is obvious that is among MJs family. Maybe Katherine will give the Judge a name of someone who will be assisting her should she need help with the children.

I do think DR will most likely be given visitation rights. I hope this time she truly lets them know she cares about them and sees them more often so they can at least get to know her.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

...and I wonder why Michael was NOT the sperm donor for his kids? Why did it have to be another man? Certainly he was capable of providing a sperm sample for them to impregnate D.R. with? And if not, they could have obtained it via a small procedure- which I am sure MJ would have been down with since he could have requested his beloved anesthesia before they did the procedure. I just don't get why he wouldn't want those kids to be at least 1/2 his biologically.
As for that dermatologist- even as much as a pig DR is, I think sleeping w/ the dermatologist would have been grose, grose, grose.. DR is no prize either. But those children- all 3 of them- are beautiful.

Only Michael can answer that but I suspect he worried because he had two diseases (Vitilio and Lupus) and felt he may pass that on to his children. I don't think he would ever want his children to go through the emotional pain and suffering that this had caused him for so many years. The doctors have said it is very painful.

I just saw a gripping video where Michael talks about that and how it has hurt him so much when others said he wanted to be white when he had told them long ago he had Vitilio. He said he was very proud to be a black man but he could not change the fact that he had Vitilio which progressed.

imo

[Firehead11]

Gentle

I have to wonder about the fact that Klein was seeing Jackson, issued him drugs and now, we find out that he MIGHT be the bio father of Jackson's children. I agree with you, in every sense of the word, Jackson was the father.

IF it turns out that Klein is the bio dad AND he is the one that supplied this drug to Jackson and/or his in house doctor, what motivated him to do so? Why are the doctors being so selective about which medical records they are releasing to the coroner's office?

What is Debbie Rowe going to ask for now that Jackson is dead? Visitation? Custody? More money?

I feel for these children. They have lost their Daddy. And now their very lives are going to be decided by a judge who will know only what he is being told. I sincerely hope that the judges asks the oldest children their opinion.

[ellegna]

...and I wonder why Michael was NOT the sperm donor for his kids? Why did it have to be another man? Certainly he was capable of providing a sperm sample for them to impregnate D.R. with? And if not, they could have obtained it via a small procedure- which I am sure MJ would have been down with since he could have requested his beloved anesthesia before they did the procedure. I just don't get why he wouldn't want those kids to be at least 1/2 his biologically.
As for that dermatologist- even as much as a pig DR is, I think sleeping w/ the dermatologist would have been grose, grgrossgrgross DR is no prize either. But those children- all 3 of them- are beautiful.

Just a wild guess but maybe MJ wasn't able to provide his own sperm sample. :shrug:

A high school friend was diagnosed with lupus in the mid 70's. He received chemo like therapy to combat the disease. That treatment rendered him sterile. When he had flare ups, the slightest touch anywhere on his body, and I mean anywhere, would cause excruciating pain. He broke out in horrible eczema like rashes.

He wanted to get married and have a bunch of children however, Lupus denied him the chance to have a serious relationship with a woman. Lupus eventually killed him.

[Tracian]

Also very sad that many are only accepting this after his death and they ridiculed and humiliated him. :(


Sometimes a celebrity is only understood after their death. I have opinions about MJ's behaviors, but to be honest, while I still think is judgement was flawed, after hearing some of the people that knew him speak at his memorial, and reviewing some of his interviews, I have changed my view considerably, in regards to the charges he faced.

[aproudmom]

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/divorce-papers-reveal-custody-arrangement-details-between-michael-jackson-debbie-rowe/25086

Michael and Debbie's divorce settlement filed on October 13, 1999. Debbie received a settlement of $8.5 million, an SUV and a Beverly Hills home. She got an additional $2 million for entering into a confidentiality agreement.

According to the settlement, Debbie was at first awarded visitation once every 45 days.

http://www.accesshollywood.com/divorce-papers-reveal-custody-arrangement-details-between-michael-jackson-and-debbie-rowe_article_20442

http://popsquire.com/michael-jackson/debbie-rowes-divorce-deal-with-michael-jackson/
This arrangement is beyond unusual. Once every 45 days is essentially zero visitation. If Debbie ever wanted to fight the arrangement, she could have won in family court, unless MJ could have shown she was harming the children. This provides more evidence that Debbie saw the kids as a financial arrangement

http://www.totaldivorce.com/blog/2009/06/29/the-michael-jackson-%E2%80%93-rowe-marriage-and-divorce/

[Mamie]

No, IMO, it is not.

What concerns me is Joe Jackson having enfluence on those children.

I hope Katherine is strong enough to keep him at arm's length.

See, and that's where I thought Grace could help Katherine out, is keeping Joe out of things. Grace is very strong willed and younger than Katherine and has all the years of these childrens lives as her experience with them and Katherine could do nothing but benefit from this.

I completely agree with you in that if Joe Jackson has any say on anything and he will because Katherine is not strong enough against him and probably still believes in his promises, not to mention love, that there will be "trouble in River City" for these children at the hands of Joe. JMO

[Mamie]

When children are taken from adoptive parents there are usually extenuating circumstances. It does not happen often where the adoptive parents have had them more than 2 years. The best interests of the child prevail.

Personally I think KJ should retain custody; keep Grace on (which would negate the age issue) and DR should be given visitation to get to know the children. When KJ passes; DR can take over provided the children agree. I think the children are of an age that weight should be given to their choice. This can all be legally worked out during the custody hearings and Joe would not even be a factor to consider. The only reason from what I understand is that KJ did not divorce Joe due to the Jehovah Witness' religion. JMO

I agree that this can all be legally worked out during the custody hearings but Grace needs to be a part of those custody hearings and written in as part of the agreement. I do not know how it would be to write Joe out, in these agreements, but I think something formal needs to be said, that way it takes the pressure off Katherine. Although I don't think he will abide by that---atleast in the beginning---but it may help. He strikes me as the type to always find a way to circumvent the situation, and of course, circumventing could only mean to his advantage. JMO

[forensicfan]

When children are taken from adoptive parents there are usually extenuating circumstances. It does not happen often where the adoptive parents have had them more than 2 years. The best interests of the child prevail.

Personally I think KJ should retain custody; keep Grace on (which would negate the age issue) and DR should be given visitation to get to know the children. When KJ passes; DR can take over provided the children agree. I think the children are of an age that weight should be given to their choice. This can all be legally worked out during the custody hearings and Joe would not even be a factor to consider. The only reason from what I understand is that KJ did not divorce Joe due to the Jehovah Witness' religion. JMO

There was a 2 1/2 yr old boy taken from his adoptive parents in the mid-90's in Schaumburg, IL because the bio mom changed her mind and because she didn't tell the bio dad about the baby, they filed suit and got him back. The woman's name was Daniella. I do not remember the father's name but for some reason Joseph comes to mind and the boy's name was never released but it was a big story here. It was a horrible scene on the news with the little boy being literally pried away from the adoptive mother's arms. Was that "best for the child"? Not in my opinion but how the child felt about it certainly didn't seem to be considered.

There was another little girl, I think her name was Kayla (1994 I THINK) that also was given back to bio mom under the same circumstances. That story got national attention. There was a made for TV movie about the story.

In both cases, I felt as many here do - they voluntarily gave up their babies and should not get them back. The children were both settled and happy (or appeared to be) but the court didn't see it that way. How the child felt about it most certainly wasn't a factor. I felt and still feel the court made the wrong choice in both cases.

The last report I heard was that Debbie Rowe changed her mind about not wanting to take custody and was instead going to try to get them. Maybe it wasn't true. I guess we'll see.

Joe Jackson was on Good Morning America saying he planned to be part of raising those kids and when asked about the kids and the entertainment business, he said he saw that "Paris wants to do something" and he saw potential in Blanket. I initially gave him the benefit of a doubt until I saw him promoting his record label on the red carpet when asked about the death of his son. The Neverland Ranch burial thing cemented my contempt for him since his motive is money.

I'm not in favor of Debbie Rowe getting the kids. I'm just saying that from a legal standpoint (and I am going solely on what the lawyers on JVM & Nancy Grace have had to say about the legal factors since I am not a lawyer), she is likely going to get them.

One way or the other, it's sad for kids. I hope whoever does raise them provides a stable and happy upbringing for them.

[forensicfan]

I found the links to the two stories I mentioned. Baby Richard was the little boy. The dad's name was not Joseph it was Otakar.

The other was not Kayla, it was "Baby Jessica".

Not that either pertains much to this case, but for anyone curious about these cases, I posted the links below.

http://law.jrank.org/pages/3475/Baby-Richard-Trial-1991-95.html

http://law.jrank.org/pages/3578/Baby-Jessica-Case-1993.html

[forensicfan]

So funny -- I just found the Baby Jessica case too. As I mentioned usually there are extenuating circumstances. The adoption was not final yet and the bio father (which is a law now) had not been notified of the child's birth. I do volunteer work at the Spence Chapin Adoption Agency in NYC. When adoptive parents take custody of a child where the birth father has not signed the papers -- they are taking a risk and are notified of the risk. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

"It took six months to process genetic tests to prove that Dan indeed was the father. By the end of 1991, an Iowa court, accepting the proof of Dan Schmidt's parenthood and recognizing that he had never signed away his rights, nullified the adoption before it became final. The court ordered the DeBoers to return Jessica to her biological parents, Clara Clausen and Dan Schmidt.

http://law.jrank.org/pages/3576/Baby-Jessica-Case-1993-Biological-Mother-Regrets-Adoption.html#ixzz0L6a2yaOe&D

I see. Thank you. That is an extenuating circumstance but sad (at least initially) for the child to be taken away from the only parents they've known to be brought to another set of parents that although biological were essentially strangers to them. I just imagine how scared both kids must have been and the scene showed on the news in the baby richard case made me cry.

As I said, I am not in favor of her getting the kids, I am just not certain that court will see in favor of Katherine over Debbie given the biological factor. I'm sure Katherine would be very good to them. It's Joe I am concerned with. I hope if she does get them, she is able to keep him at a distance.

[Tracian]

Did you watch Geraldo last night? The footage of his interview with MJ? MJ clearly states he had made amends with his father and he had come to appreciate the things he was taught by him and the traits they share. The interview was done in 2005.

It seems Ol Joe will have a leg to stand on...since it came from MJ lips and the will was signed back in 2002.

Just because a person forgives their abuser, does not mean that they would want to subject their children to said abuser.

[Tracian]

I don't dispute that.

I am just saying...it looks like Joe does have a leg to stand on.


Well, IMO, it could be argued that the fact that MJ didn't change the WILL after his statement in regards to Joe supports that he still felt the same way about the placement of his children.

[SunflowerKS]

I do not know that, from looking at their pictures, they sure look like him

They are his. He said so on an interview I watched the other day. Maybe some people should do some research and find out the truth. It saves a lot of speculation.

[Barbara fl.]

I really do not see any point in the doctor taking a DNA test to see if he is the bio dad to MJ's children...it wouldn't make a bit of difference....he would be considered a donor, nothing else..he would NOT be entitled to fight for custody....

Michael Jackson was married to Debbie Rowe at the time of the birth of both children, therefore he is legally their father, no matter how you look at it...any child born during a marriage is legally both parents child...no adoption would be necessary unless DR came into the marriage with the 2 children already being born....

I don't think that there is a doubt in anyones mind that MJ is the BIO dad to these children....however, he was the legal father.....

As for DR, she has sold these children twice (as far as I am concerned) and is only looking for another pay day....she didn't concern herself with any worry for these 2 children for the past 11 and 12 years.....ONLY when she saw dollar signs did she suddenly become concerned and as soon as a settlement was reached she disappeared again....

As soon as DR is handed some money she will again walk away from these beautiful children without batting an eyelash.....

I just hope that this time it will be for good......JMOO

[Streetdreamer]

NY Post news article says Debbie Rowe agreed to 4million to not fight for custody. If this is true, talk about how this is in the best interest of the children on MJJ's beleaguered estate?

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07142009/news/nationalnews/mother_lode_for_jacko_ex_179174.htm

[trucrime]

Joe Jackson IMO is the LAST person who needs to be parenting these kids. World tour in 2010? Jackson 3? Has Joe ever really changed and learned from his mistakes?

[Lavinia]

...and I wonder why Michael was NOT the sperm donor for his kids? Why did it have to be another man? Certainly he was capable of providing a sperm sample for them to impregnate D.R. with? And if not, they could have obtained it via a small procedure- which I am sure MJ would have been down with since he could have requested his beloved anesthesia bfore they did the procedure. I just don't get why he wouldn't want those kids to be at least 1/2 his biologically.
As for that dermatologist- even as much as a pig DR is, I think sleeping w/ the dermatologist would have been grose, grose, grose.. DR is no prize either. But those children- all 3 of them- are beautiful.

If he is not the donor, perhaps he was sterile and unable to produce his own children. :shrug:

[kellabeck]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-07-15/jackson-kids-for-sale/?cid=hp:blogunit1

[ScoobyDoo]

Of course it was legal. :rolleyes: His lawyers arranged it so they could skirt the laws about selling children. IMO


Do you view all surrogates as baby sellers?

[CANDYKISSES]

Just because a person forgives their abuser, does not mean that they would want to subject their children to said abuser.

Well stated Tracian. The life long connection between the abuser and the abused child is never over from what I've seen. It transcends the earthly physical side and holds through the afterlife for so many victims.

While it doesn't mean an empowered victim will repeat the same behaviors, it does mean it's never forgotten and looms in darkness sometimes pushing guilt or shame in stressful situations IMOO.

Forgiveness is good for everyone, but it does not by any means indicate you are wiping a slate of pain and abuse clean, it's a way for everyone to move on with caution and respect IMO.

I say Joe has never owned his behaviors or apologized for them and continues to throw it off on others, but that's just a guess after hearing him this week. :sad:

[withay]

Tito Jackson: I am sure that Michael is biological father to Prince Michael, Paris and Blanket

By Nancy Dillon
DAILY NEWS WEST COAST BUREAU CHIEF

Thursday, July 16th 2009, 3:32 PM

LOS ANGELES - Michael Jackson's brother says it's easy as 1-2-3 to tell the King of Pop is the biological father of his three kids.

"They are all Michael's children. Prince looks just like my grandfather. There's no question they are Michael's. They are 100% his," Tito told the U.K.'s Daily Mirror, referring to Prince Michael, 12, Paris, 11, and Blanket, 7.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/michael_jackson/2009/07/16/2009-07-16_tito_no_question_they_are_mj_kids.html#ixzz0LSm fkDJ1

If I was going to bet that any of the children are biologically related to Michael, it would be Blanket. I can see a resemblance there. And I have seen many bi-racial children of the complexion of Prince and Paris. I think Paris looks a lot like Debbie Rowe except darker haired and complexioned. Her eyes are exactly like Debbie's. And to tell the truth, none of this makes any difference. He was legally and emotionally and in all of the ways that really mattered, the father to these children. I have a lot of issues with a lot of things MJ did but, from everything that has ever come out, he was an excellent and loving father.

[daniel green]

http://www.usmagazine.com/news/janet-jackson-jermaine-dupri-split-2009137?utm_source=newsletter&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm _campaign=daily

[daniel green]

snipped

"They are all Michael's children. Prince looks just like my grandfather.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/michael_jackson/2009/07/16/2009-07-16_tito_no_question_they_are_mj_kids.html#ixzz0LSm fkDJ1

And, yet, no other Jackson had a child with blue eyes and white skin.

I, too, have a bi-racial child who we adopted at birth, and have worked with bi-racial children my whole entire life and I see nothing of this in the older two children.

It seems very sad to me, as an adoptive parent, to have the alleged bio reference made over and over again. Families are shaped in many ways, and adoption is one of them. And to stress a bio-relationship to me is to make light of the same connection and bond one has between child/parent with via adoption. surrogacy, etc. Seems like a shame to me.

[Details]

Nope. Just the ones that enter into sham marriages for the purpose of buying children legally. imoAs opposed to buying children legally without the sham marriage? I somehow fail to really see a difference. Either way, you are buying a child. The sham marriage - really, between them.

And - if you think it will be well cared for and loved - there's no shame I can see in helping someone create a child that you will not be raising yourself. I wouldn't have seen MJ as a good father, so I likely would not have helped him have a child - but whatever else, it does seem like Rowe thought so - and it does seem like he's been a fairly decent father so far. We may hear different, but I've seen plenty of far worse parents out there.

Men always have to talk someone into helping them, if they want a child. Some can find a woman who wants to be their lifelong partner with that child, others have to pay for it.

[daniel green]

Whether or not MJ is the bio father; it is very possible those children are bi-racial. They certainly do NOT look like they are 100% caucasian. snipped:

The older two children look 100% Caucasian to me.

Pls see post about MY child, who is biracial.

[daniel green]

snipped Sorry you CANNOT say definitively these children are not bi-racial especially considering D Rowe is extremely white. :shrug:

I'm sorry, it's very clear from my post that it was MY opinion that they are caucasian children. You know, just like it's your opinion that they are not. Certainly that is allowed, right? :confused:

I mean, nobody can say anything "definitively" without DNA or medical histories or having medical records.

[ScoobyDoo]

Nope. Just the ones that enter into sham marriages for the purpose of buying children legally. imo


There was no reason they had to be married. A surrogate arrangement doesn't unsually necessitate marriage. Unless you were a player in their marriage, I don't think you know one way or another, if it was a sham or not. Either way, it was there business, and no one else's.

imo...of course.