6/26 to 6/27 --#3

[Dunlurken]

CW asked for a new thread, so here it is.

Post on.

[callmetree]

CW asked for a new thread, so here it is.

Post on.
thanks dunnie! let's hope it stays peaceful.

[RootBeer]

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream1&iref=lb100

[Cynthia]

(snip)
"When the autopsy comes, all hell's going to break loose, so thank God we're celebrating him now," Liza Minnelli told CBS' "The Early Show" by telephone.


What does she know or thinks she knows? His death has bugged me. Really is sad!!:sad:

[RootBeer]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/19866628/detail.html

Jackson's Recording Career Began At Motown
POSTED: Friday, June 26, 2009
UPDATED: 8:58 am EDT June 26, 2009

[Cornblossom]

They are rarely seen in public, and when they are, it is usually with their faces masked or veiled. It is not clear who their biological father is, but they are Michael Jackson’s legal children. The question facing Prince Michael, 12; Paris, 11; and Blanket, 7, now is: Who will raise them to adulthood?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31564994/ns/parenting_and_family/

[Dunlurken]

We know it was cardiac arrest. And yes, toxicology will have to determine what caused that arrest. So it will be weeks before we know for sure. JMO.

[witchywoman]

CW asked for a new thread, so here it is.

Post on.


thnx for the starter thread, i was getting lost....

[Dunlurken]

WOW. HLN just said Google almost shut down their site yesterday because they were getting so many hits, they thought they had a virus. All related to Michael Jackson.

JMO.

[margaritaville]

(snip)
"When the autopsy comes, all hell's going to break loose, so thank God we're celebrating him now," Liza Minnelli told CBS' "The Early Show" by telephone.


What does she know or thinks she knows? His death has bugged me. Really is sad!!:sad:

People were guessing last night that it will be drugs and anorexia...:shrug:

MOO

[Cornblossom]

WOW. HLN just said Google almost shut down their site yesterday because they were getting so many hits, they thought they had a virus. All related to Michael Jackson.

JMO.today's count:
Results 1 - 10 of about 71,100,000 for michael jackson. (0.12 seconds)

[~layla~]

Im calling the COD/MOD ... whichever is the proper term...

Heart attack/failure complicated by prescription drug abuse and anorexia.

I believe he was a musical genius, a perfectionist, a talented creator.

In his life I do believe he endured much abuse, much indulgence, and a lot of coverup. Even within that realm he seemed to be a tortured soul.

That black shroud over his life will forever be there, as will his incredible and generous, outrageous living large days.

[Dunlurken]

Elizabeth Taylor still hasn't commented. Nor has Diana Ross that I've heard of so far. JMO.

[Tracian]

Not according to Jermaine PC yesterday. I can't stand DD, she's another Rita Cosby IMO

One major difference is that DD has not been sued for her book.

[Dunlurken]

Im calling the COD/MOD

snipped to address: COD and MOD are two different things. Method could be a gun shot wound, but the cause could be different things. Blood loss, etc. It's confusing.

[Cornblossom]

Elizabeth Taylor still hasn't commented. Nor has Diana Ross that I've heard of so far. JMO.
Diane Ross said she couldn't stop crying and Elizabeth Taylor said she was shocked and surprised.

http://www.etonline.com/

[gemsbmw]

(snip)
"When the autopsy comes, all hell's going to break loose, so thank God we're celebrating him now," Liza Minnelli told CBS' "The Early Show" by telephone.


What does she know or thinks she knows? His death has bugged me. Really is sad!!:sad:


I believe it is going to be another Elvis/Anna Nicole story.

JMO....

[Dunlurken]

Diane Ross said she couldn't stop crying and Elizabeth Taylor said she was shocked and surprised.

http://www.etonline.com/

Thanks for the link. Preliminary results could be released this afternoon on the autopsy. I think we know what those will be.

[Dunlurken]

The silver mercedes belonging to the doctor was towed away from the home of Michael. They still can't find the doctor. JMO.

[Cornblossom]

http://www.etonline.com/index.html?page=3&tag= supposedly the 911 call whoever this is sure is calm!

[FallenAngel♥]

LOS ANGELES -- Police are searching for a doctor who they hope will help in the investigation of Michael Jackson's death.

Los Angeles police spokeswoman Karen Rayner says that police towed from Jackson's house a BMW owned by one of the superstar's doctors.
Said Rayner: "We have not been able to interview the doctor yet. His car was impounded because it may contain medications or other evidence that may assist the coroner in determining the cause of death."

TMZ.com reported that the doctor lived at the home. Rayner said she could not confirm that and did not know the doctor's identity.

She stressed that the doctor was not under criminal investigation but coroner's investigators wanted to contact him.

http://www.wpxi.com/entertainment/19861926/detail.html

OMG...I just got home........... :ohmy: I think this is going to turn out to be another Anna Nicole Smith death.

[Lyvia]

<snip>Up to you - but please do not believe what DD says about MJ. I don't say this lightly -- anyone here that followed the trial and was fair would tell you that. JMHO
<snip>
Stop speaking for everyone. I followed the trial. I disagree with you. I doubt I am the only one.

[Cornblossom]

Where did you get this story? Los Angeles police are searching for Michael Jackson's personal physician today to question him after allegations that the star received a potentially fatal dose of the painkiller Demerol before his death.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6585015.ece

[Dunlurken]

They just stated on HLN that it's a good possibility that the rights to the Beatles songs (proceeds/royalties) were left to Paul McCartney in MJ's will. We shall see. JMO.

[VC2]

We know it was cardiac arrest. And yes, toxicology will have to determine what caused that arrest. So it will be weeks before we know for sure. JMO.

unless it was structural, at which point i sure hope they put out a statement ASAP at least on that.

I replied to your other thread with this:

Kind of strange since Michael "ran out of money", no one has filed any charges against him. Those people were in cahoots and only wanted Michael's money.

Did the alleged victims mother ever spend time in jail? I was so glad when she was arrested for fraud

[penguinlady]

That trial was far from fair. It was a circus orchestrated by his handlers. Jury was star struck. Had it been your average next door neighbor, he would have been convicted.

imo

Had it been your average next door neighbor he probably wouldn't have been charged.

IMO

[Tracian]

I think that is a huge stretch. Why would MJ do that?

From what I heard, the Beatles catalog is pretty much gone as a resource due to MJ's living expenses.

[VC2]

Elizabeth Taylor still hasn't commented. Nor has Diana Ross that I've heard of so far. JMO.

Elizabeth released a sort of statement last night that she was to devastated to release a full one as yet-head iton the 1 am two hour live LKL or last hour of AC360, Diana Ross's was read on CNN about 20 mins ago as they interviewed Patti Austin but i don't know when it was issued.

[Lyvia]

That trial was far from fair. It was a circus orchestrated by his handlers. Jury was star struck. Had it been your average next door neighbor, he would have been convicted.

imo

These kinds of cases can be so hard to prove, but in this case, based on what we know from the trial, I agree.

[Tracian]

Had it been your average next door neighbor he probably wouldn't have been charged.

IMO



Are you kidding? If a average guy invited young boys to his house, slept in the same room, or bed with them, bragged about it to the world; and then allegations were made that the same man was giving these boys pornographic books and alcohol...it would be all about pitch forks and torches.

Remember, MJ settled a case in the 90's....if he was completely innocent, why would he pay off an alleged victim?

[Cornblossom]

I think that is a huge stretch. Why would MJ do that?
A report from January in the Mirror claimed that Michael Jackson left the publishing rights to the Beatles’ body of work–which Jackson won at auction in 1985–to Paul McCartney, with an insider telling the paper, “Michael told his lawyers he was sad he no longer talks to Sir Paul and said he wanted to make things right.” Jackson’s purchase of the publishing rights resulted in a schism developing between the two artists, who had collaborated on “Say Say Say” and “The Girl Is Mine” in the years prior to the auction.

[VC2]

Not according to Jermaine PC yesterday. I can't stand DD, she's another Rita Cosby IMO

Worse than RC imo. She outright lied about the days court proceedings all the time and if you go back to the original archived thread you will see where athena and others completely debunked her reporting by posting the verbatim court reporters transcripts.

IMO of course

[Dunlurken]

I think that is a huge stretch. Why would MJ do that?

Because they were friends, and unfortunately, he outbid McCartney on what is rightfully Paul's? I don't know. :confused:

[penguinlady]

Are you kidding? If a average guy invited young boys to his house, slept in the same room, or bed with them, bragged about it to the world; and then allegations were made that the same man was giving these boys pornographic books and alcohol...it would be all about pitch forks and torches.

Remember, MJ settled a case in the 90's....if he was completely innocent, why would he pay off an alleged victim?


Easier than a trial..

I don't know..all I know is the average guy next door doesn't have millions of dollars. Most people wouldn't let their kid just spend the night with the guy next door either (of course people with any sense about them shouldn't do that with ANYONE).

To me in way to many ways it was all about the money.

IMO

[Lyvia]

Are you kidding? If a average guy invited young boys to his house, slept in the same room, or bed with them, bragged about it to the world; and then allegations were made that the same man was giving these boys pornographic books and alcohol...it would be all about pitch forks and torches.

Remember, MJ settled a case in the 90's....if he was completely innocent, why would he pay off an alleged victim?

And the payoff was 20 million, wasn't it?

In the other thread, we're talking about a book he owned, The Boy: A Photographic Essay. I can't even link to it, because it's got so many photos of naked children (boys). But I did find it on Wikipedia in a list of books that portray paedophilia or sexual abuse of minors. If anyone wants the link, I'll PM it. I don't even want to give that much information.

[lune3]

Sorry if this has already been posted but tmz is reporting that Debbie Rowe actually did not lose rights to her children. Evidently the judge at the time reversed the decision that all rights were terminated.

Another report states that MJ was already flatlining when EMTs arrived but the personal doc did not want death declared. It seems he also administered Lidocaine in an attempt to revive him.

http://www.tmz.com/

[Dunlurken]

A report from January in the Mirror claimed that Michael Jackson left the publishing rights to the Beatles’ body of work–which Jackson won at auction in 1985–to Paul McCartney, with an insider telling the paper, “Michael told his lawyers he was sad he no longer talks to Sir Paul and said he wanted to make things right.” Jackson’s purchase of the publishing rights resulted in a schism developing between the two artists, who had collaborated on “Say Say Say” and “The Girl Is Mine” in the years prior to the auction.
Thank you for explaining it better.

[penguinlady]

Couldn't be more wrong. Do your research.

All the evidence against MJ and the same exact thing for the average joe, he'd be in jail.

You have your opinion, I have mine.

IMO

[VC2]

One major difference is that DD has not been sued for her book.

There is no way that MJ was going to voluntarily sue anyone, he did not have the stamina or the wish after so many false (and some true - such as nonpayment suits ) suits that took his money, his energy, his time and often were betrayals by people he trusted. He wouldn't sue for anything voluntarily no matter how untrue the book. that has nothing to do with if it was full of the truth or not.

JMO

[VC2]

If Dunlurken were to provide the link so we can read exactly what they said we would most likely figure out that the story isn't true. MJ had to put that up as collateral. MJ is still in debt up to the moon even in death. The creditors will take what ever is left, which I doubt is much now.

tmz

That has nothing to do with him leaving it in his will. It may not be possible to actually do so given creditors but when you write a will you don't not give something you want to someone because you might have debts that are mortgaged on it. Just like houses are left in wills to people even though they are mortgaged to the hilt.

IMO

[Lyvia]

There are a group of us here who followed the trial WITH THE COURT TRANSCRIPTS and the jury came to the correct conclusion -- not guilty. <snip>

And many of us did the same and believe he is guilty, and that the jury was dead wrong. Just as some of the jury came to believe that.

[KatieLady]

Sorry if this has already been posted

Dr. identified Dr. Conrad Robert Murray

http://www.tmz.com/

[FallenAngel♥]

Los Angeles police are searching for Michael Jackson's personal physician today to question him after allegations that the star received a potentially fatal dose of the painkiller Demerol before his death.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6585015.ece

Does this dr not know how damning it looks with him going into hiding?


Now i'm starting to wonder how long MJ was dead before 911 was called.

[Dunlurken]

The trial is over. Can we stop rehashing the past and move on to the present and future?

[LILMANMAX]

RUMOR CONTROL:

I posted her comment yesterday right after she said it on HLN too and wish I hadn't. She lied much like she has as far as MJ goes for the past 15 years. On HLN she said she got the info from a reliable source - so much for reliability. LOL

Up to you - but please do not believe what DD says about MJ. I don't say this lightly -- anyone here that followed the trial and was fair would tell you that. JMHO

She said Joe Jackson and a friend was with MJ.
Joe Jackson was in Vegas and had not even reached CA by the time MJ was pronounced dead and Randy (his brother) was the one that was with MJ and his physician.

Thanx Athena.
I do not believe a word that comes out of that vile DD mouth. :angry:

[Dunlurken]

Sorry if this has already been posted

Dr. identified Dr. Conrad Robert Murray

http://www.tmz.com/

Thank you. It had not been posted as far as I know.

[Cornblossom]

Can you provide the link to the story? Thanks.
http://www.spinner.com/2009/01/06/jackson-leaving-beatles-songs-to-mccartney-in-will/



http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2009/06/mj_beatles_catalog.htmlAt this time, it's impossible to determine the veracity of this report or if this plan ever advanced past the talking stage. Even if it were true, there would likely be a lengthy court battle before they are returned to their rightful owners, as Reuters reports that there is "a $200 million loan secured against it." Still, we're glad to see that Paul McCartney has put his personal beef aside for the moment and is taking the high road in the wake of the death of his old friend: "I feel privileged to have hung out and worked with Michael. He was a massively talented boy man with a gentle soul. His music will be remembered forever and my memories of our time together will be happy ones."

[KatieLady]

911 tape to be released within an hour per TMZ

[Lyvia]

The trial is over. Can we stop rehashing the past and move on to the present and future?

I guess that's fair if those who are MJ fans stop rehashing his past and only talk about the future.

No, I am not seriously suggesting that. Merely making a point.

And for many of us, the trial was a part of our time here on the boards. There's a thread for just positive comments so you can avoid anything not positive. Isn't that enough?

[Tracian]

There is no way that MJ was going to voluntarily sue anyone, he did not have the stamina or the wish after so many false (and some true - such as nonpayment suits ) suits that took his money, his energy, his time and often were betrayals by people he trusted. He wouldn't sue for anything voluntarily no matter how untrue the book. that has nothing to do with if it was full of the truth or not.

JMO


IF he sued that would have been a good indication that he was appalled by what was printed. Sorry, this frail nonsense to allow someone to slander you is illogical.

Also, just because one does not like what DD printed it does not mean she is a liar; especially when the subject of the alledged 'lies' is willing to allow them to remain without legal objection.

[LILMANMAX]

The trial is over. Can we stop rehashing the past and move on to the present and future?

Apparently not.
Some people never give up. :rolleyes:

Makes me barf

[FallenAngel♥]

this might have been posted already but i just got home and i'm playing catch up


Michael's Final Days: Mystery And Extreme Weight Loss

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20287839,00.html

[LILMANMAX]

DD will be on every channel that will give her a minute to discuss MJ ad nauseam. She made me sick then and sickens me even more now.

I have a feeling his family will not stand for it now and hope they don't.

[Cornblossom]

http://earsucker.com/2009/06/26/michael-jacksons-911-response-not-breathing/

[Lyvia]

DD will be on every channel that will give her a minute to discuss MJ ad nauseam. She made me sick then and sickens me even more now.

I have a feeling his family will not stand for it now and hope they don't.

Oh, good. I've always liked her. She knows her stuff.

I don't know why the family would object or how they would, given that we live in a country with free speech. As long as she avoids slander and libel, which she's apparently always done since no action has been taken, she should be fine (well, if she isn't attacked and threatened by overzealous fans as she was during the trial. Shame on them)

[VC2]

Are you kidding? If a average guy invited young boys to his house, slept in the same room, or bed with them, bragged about it to the world; and then allegations were made that the same man was giving these boys pornographic books and alcohol...it would be all about pitch forks and torches.

Remember, MJ settled a case in the 90's....if he was completely innocent, why would he pay off an alleged victim?

VERY bad legal advice IMO. I understood why he wanted to make it go away but his attorneys should have been disbarred for it given this:

On July 2, 1993, in a private telephone conversation, Chandler was tape recorded as saying,

There was no reason why he [Jackson] had to stop calling me...I picked the nastiest son of a ***** I could find [Evan Chandler's lawyer, Barry Rothman], all he wants to do is get this out in the public as fast as he can, as big as he can and humiliate as many people as he can. He's nasty, he's mean, he's smart and he's hungry for publicity. Everything's going to a certain plan that isn't just mine. Once I make that phone call, this guy is going to destroy everybody in sight in any devious, nasty, cruel way that he can do it. I've given him full authority to do that. Jackson is an evil guy, he is worse than that and I have the evidence to prove it. If I go through with this, I win big-time. There's no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever...Michael's career will be over. [2]
—Evan Chandler

In the same conversation, when asked how this would affect his son, Chandler replied, "That's irrelevant to me...It will be a massacre if I don't get what I want. It's going to be bigger than all us put together...This man [Jackson] is going to be humiliated beyond belief...He will not sell one more record". [2] The recorded conversation was a critical aspect of Jackson's defense against the upcoming allegation made against him. He and his supporters argue that he was the victim of a jealous father whose only goal was to extort money from the singer. [2]

In early August, Chandler, a registered dentist, extracted a tooth from his son's mouth, and was later forced to admit that he used the controversial sedative sodium Amytal during the procedure. [1] Under the influence of the drug, Jordan alleged that Jackson had touched his penis. Experts state that the drug sodium Amytal "makes patients extremely susceptible to suggestions". [1] Dr Lewis Strong, a Los Angeles psychiatrist stated, "You can't trust it, I never use it in my practice. I have found it to be unreliable. It's certainly not a truth serum". [1] Dr Kenneth Gottlieb, a San Francisco psychiatrist who has used the drug, stated, "I would never want to use a drug that tampers with a person's unconscious unless there was no other drug available, and I would not use it without resuscitation equipment in case of allergic reaction". [1]
http://wapedia.mobi/en/1993_child_sexual_abuse_accusations_against_Michae l_Jackson

much much more at the link including the fact that the supposed "penis match" was not an "exact match" as many said and info on who took over the defense, why and why it was settled

IMO

[magnolia]

I'm a bit surprised to find the hero-like adoration of Michael Jackson, here on this site (one seemingly devoted to justice and right/wrong). I had to check to make sure I wasn't on his official fan site.

There's lots of information that he had an unhealthly lifestyle, was bizzare, and had questionable relationships with children. Many seem to excuse the red flags regarding children. Can't believe it the sugar-coating going on.

With this being said, MJ was an amazing talent and could entertain like very few. I'm not happy that he has died but he is no idol. Not even close.

[Lyvia]

VERY bad legal advice IMO. I understood why he wanted to make it go away but his attorneys should have been disbarred for it given this:


http://wapedia.mobi/en/1993_child_sexual_abuse_accusations_against_Michae l_Jackson
Did you happen to look at the sources for that piece? Just curious. It draws heavily on the Taraborelli bio, for example.

[FallenAngel♥]

imo

Thanks FallenAngel.

Days? Really? He's been like this for yrs, right?
Drugs will do that to you.

I have no doubt in my mind now that he over used drugs and this was a drug death .

I also wouldn't be shocked if he weighed less then 140 pounds. His body looked so tiny when they were putting him in the coroners van.

I hope his death helps others in his family get clean. I've felt like for years Janet and LaToya have problems w/ prescription meds.

[*MoonRider*]

brace yourselves, the 911 tape will be released...http://twitter.com/HarveyLevinTMZ
The Michael Jackson 911 tape will be released to the public within an hour and TMZ will stream it live.
http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-911-tape-/

[omsk99]

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Police are looking for Michael Jackson's personal physician but have been unable to contact him, they said Friday.

The doctor's car was towed from Jackson's home Thursday and impounded, authorities said.

The car may contain "medications pertinent to the investigation" into Jackson's death, said detective Agustin Villanueva of the Los Angeles Police Department.

Police did not release the doctors name.

Authorities said Friday the cause of Michael Jackson's death will not be determined officially for weeks.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/26/michael.jackson/index.html

[Lyvia]

Of course he found the right kinda family! That's what pedophiles do. They groom the entire family, some even date women to get close to their children. In MJ's case...he simply bought the mothers then his lawyers ripped the mother's apart. IMO In the most recent case...the defense demonized the mother. There was a TON of evidence against MJ. Way more evidence than most child molestation cases that end in convictions.

I agree.

Now, if it cost you 20 million to avoid a trial that might have ended in conviction, would you (not you, personally) ever sleep in bed with a child you weren't related to again? Unless you couldn't help yourself.

And if you love children, would you go on TV singing the praises of adults and children (not related) sleeping the same bed? A pedophile could use that to harm a child. "Michael Jackson said it's ok." And children hearing Jackson make that claim would think it was acceptable. I just don't see his great love of children when it came to certain areas.

[Tracian]

And if the young man who settled the case had testified perhaps the outcome may have been different; but he didn't. :shrug:

I don't know if the judge would have allowed PBAs into the trial, especially since no charges were filed and a civil suit was negotiated out of court and the parties had agreed not to disclose certain agreements. IMO, that first boy's family got their golden egg and didn't care beyond that.

The sad thing is, is that no one ever tried to help MJ. No one can say that he was looking 'better' as he aged; He was deteriorating due to odd behaviors, obsessive plastic surgery, and self destructive behaviors in regards to his inappropriate ideas and yes, actions, even according to his own admissions with adolescent boys.

I grew up in the 80's loved MJ and his music. I remember sitting up late at night to watch Friday Night Videos...(before MTV) just to catch a glimpse of the new MJ single. It is tragic what MJ became, and even more tragic that those closest that claimed to love him so much did nothing but cover up and make excuses for him, rather than get help for him.

[Lyvia]

This whole thing with the doctor....bizarre.

[Tracian]

I agree.

Now, if it cost you 20 million to avoid a trial that might have ended in conviction, would you (not you, personally) ever sleep in bed with a child you weren't related to again? Unless you couldn't help yourself.

And if you love children, would you go on TV singing the praises of adults and children (not related) sleeping the same bed? A pedophile could use that to harm a child. "Michael Jackson said it's ok." And children hearing Jackson make that claim would think it was acceptable. I just don't see his great love of children when it came to certain areas.


That is true, what a great grooming tool for pedophiles, "You like Michael Jackson, well he does this all the time"

[callmetree]

Had it been your average next door neighbor he probably wouldn't have been charged.

IMO
i totally agree!

[LisaM22]

"The Secret of Michael Jackson's "Smooth Criminal" Forward Leaning Move"

http://gizmodo.com/5302756/the-secret-of-michael-jacksons-smooth-criminal-forward-leaning-move

video on link as well

[Lyvia]

That is true, what a great grooming tool for pedophiles, "You like Michael Jackson, well he does this all the time"

I was so disgusted with the CBS special. It had such a huge viewership, including kids, and he went on and on about how great it was for adults to share their beds with kids. He even said (and I linked to this earlier) that he would let his children sleep with adults he knew, even if they were accused of child molestation. That's how far he was willing to go to defend and normalize that practice. He wasn't thinking of children. I don't even have children and my first thought was for the potential harm to children from his statements.

[FallenAngel♥]

If anyone cares to talk about the recent events.

More current updates.

Emergency Workers Felt Jackson Dead at Scene
Posted Jun 26th 2009 12:45PM by TMZ Staff

When EMTs arrived at Michael Jackson's home yesterday, the medics wanted to pronounce him dead on the scene -- but Michael's personal doctor refused to let them "call it" -- this according to sources close to the situation.
http://www.tmz.com/
I wonder where that dr is today.......
Was he at the hospital when the family got there?

[VC2]

There are a group of us here who followed the trial WITH THE COURT TRANSCRIPTS and the jury came to the correct conclusion -- not guilty. Even those who thought he may have done something with children -- there was absolutely no proof that he did anything to the alleged victim in this case.

right..and i have to add that more than no proof he did anything to the alleged victim, the defense actually proved that there was a pattern of this sort of fraudulent claim with the supposed victim's family.

Correct me if i am wrong Athena but there were at least 3 and i think 4 times that lawsuits were started against people using supposed sexual assult allegations. One when the mother and children were caught shoplifting, she sued the store and the guard saying she was sexually assaulted, another time against someone else saying her daughter was and another time when she used her son as the alleged victim.

It was stunning and so clear that the case was nothing more than trumped up allegations that followed the families earlier pattern of lawsuits.

At the beginning i didn't know if he did it, then i was certain of his innocence but was not sure of what he did with jordie chandler..almost believed it happened until i investigated further and discovered that it was also IMO just another false allegation

IMO

[Lyvia]

I'm no medical expert, but since when does a cardiologist inject you with morphine daily? Now he's on the run.

\

"The doctor who was with Michael Jackson at the time of his death has been identified as a cardiologist from Houston, Texas.

KHOU in Houston reports the man is Dr. Conrad Robert Murray, who had been living with Jackson in his rented mansion. We're told Murray
attempted to revive Michael until paramedics showed up at the scene."

TMZ.com
You're right. That he's a cardiologist makes this all the weirder. Not the doctor you'd normally have around to keep you in narcotics. With Jackson training and working to get ready for his tour, I can see having a physiatrist, maybe a physical therapy, even a cardiologist if there were a problem. But one who (if he did) gave out a lot of narcotics. That would be odd. imo

[Cornblossom]

911 call now on tmz

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-the-911-call/#comments

[VC2]

imo


Even if you aren't a drug addict. Who keeps a dr. in their house at all times? How if you are immersed in debt? Who was paying this guy? Isn't that unethical anyway? This guy is in sooo deep.

one reason is chronic illness and the money to pay him. He had huge debts but he still had hundreds of thousands coming in every month (or more)

Fox reporting the doctor is not missing, police are about to interview them.

as per trace just now

eta and yes he did go to the hospital with MJ so its possible he just did not even try to go back for the car considering fans, LE not letting ppl in etc etc.

i still find it very strange but there is always the possibility that the "missing" part had more to do with the fact that media could not find him and that LE had not managed to contact him yet. Remember its still morning in LA.

IMO

[Brooke]

I feel bad for MJ's children. All that is bound to come out about their father, all he has shielded them from knowing about him and his past, they will soon find out. How will they ever be able to live a normal life?? I dont believe they can... :crying:

[Brooke]

--------------

stange how the caller never says "its Michael Jackson" jmo

Do we know who the caller is?? He states the Dr was the only one with him, even asks the Dr a question in the middle of the call :confused:

[FallenAngel♥]

jmo

Seems he ran off and that is why they towed his car, which happens to belong to his sister. Seems they towed the car rather quickly don't you think? Evidence?

Have no idea if he went to the hospital. Good ? though.

TMZ said he wouldn't let them stop CPR even after he was at the hospital so i just assumed he was there but i might be wrong.

[FallenAngel♥]

Lisa Marie Presley: "Michael Knew He Would Die Like This"

http://blogs.myspace.com/lisamariepresley

[Cornblossom]

TMZ said he wouldn't let them stop CPR even after he was at the hospital so i just assumed he was there but i might be wrong.some doctor he is...he had to be told to put Jackson on the floor to do CPR.

[Lyvia]

And all his detractors will be tickled pink to wallow in it, I have no doubt about that. :smile:

And some of his fans will say ugly things about anyone who dares to speak the truth. Call them haters and such. But at least here, we aren't allowed to attack each other. Right?

[magnolia]

some doctor he is...he had to be told to put Jackson on the floor to do CPR.

Yeah you might want to listen again...and pay again to the order of the conversation. The operator (when he said that) did not know a doctor was there. Sheesh.

[VC2]

Lisa Marie Presley: "Michael Knew He Would Die Like This"

http://blogs.myspace.com/lisamariepresley

omg i am crying at her post. What a heartfelt opening of her feelings.

[Scampi]

I would bet Hub's right arm, that Dr. Conrad Robert Murray retained an attorney soon after Jackson was pronounced dead yesterday. TMZ and FOX are reporting Dr. Murray is with LE now and being questioned. His answers, if he gives any, should be very interesting to say the least.

Did anyone expect that Jackson dying wouldn't involve drama and mystery?

I feel so sorry for those children.

[magnolia]

omg i am crying at her post. What a heartfelt opening of her feelings.

Lisa Marie's writing seems very sincere and genuine. It also indicates that Michael has had severe problems for a very long time.

[Hannibal]

when Jackson's death is announced:

http://www.knoxville.com/news/2009/jun/26/michael-jacksons-death-brings-cheering-sundown/


Whether it was due to the pedophelia charges or to racism is unknown to me....


I didn't agree with some of the things he did but I wouldn't cheer at the news of his death....

:thumbdown:

[Cornblossom]

Yeah you might want to listen again...and pay again to the order of the conversation. The operator (when he said that) did not know a doctor was there. Sheesh.Bless your heart. The operator asks where he is rght now,the caller says he is on the bed,the operator says put him on the floor,the caller says,"Dr.,put him on the floor"

[Citygirl]

I feel bad for MJ's children. All that is bound to come out about their father, all he has shielded them from knowing about him and his past, they will soon find out. How will they ever be able to live a normal life?? I dont believe they can... :crying:


What aspects of their lives do you think have been normal?
These children don't have a clue about normal..IMO

Maybe after the smoke clears they can have some sort of normal life..I hope so anyway.

[taylor63]

imo


Some always refuse to take the blinders off.

Are you saying the people who think he is not guilty of the molestation charges have blinders on?

[taylor63]

when Jackson's death is announced:

http://www.knoxville.com/news/2009/jun/26/michael-jacksons-death-brings-cheering-sundown/


Whether it was due to the pedophelia charges or to racism is unknown to me....


I didn't agree with some of the things he did but I wouldn't cheer at the news of his death....

:thumbdown:

No one on this website has cheered his death,but at least one person said they shed no tears because it mean't there was one less pedophile in the world. The insensitivity of some people at such a sad time is just mindboggling.

[Tracian]

What aspects of their lives do you think have been normal?
These children don't have a clue about normal..IMO

Maybe after the smoke clears they can have some sort of normal life..I hope so anyway.



Exactly. These children don't know about normal, though I do hope they find it.

[mrsmcgoo]

Going over the various news releases and I came across this old Vanity Fair article.

http://www.vanityfair.com/fame/features/2005/07/orth200507

I am about halfway through reading it and wondered if the author ever faced legal action? It certainly cuts to the chase and makes no bones about MJ's actions.

JMO

[VC2]

I would bet Hub's right arm, that Dr. Conrad Robert Murray retained an attorney soon after Jackson was pronounced dead yesterday. TMZ and FOX are reporting Dr. Murray is with LE now and being questioned. His answers, if he gives any, should be very interesting to say the least.

Did anyone expect that Jackson dying wouldn't involve drama and mystery?

I feel so sorry for those children.

well scamp, we disagree vehemently on the trial but i totally agree with you about this Dr.

[emdragon]

I have mixed thoughts on this- A talent he surely was (not the king of POP that title rightfully belongs to Prince) and a dark and twisted soul.

I would not buy his music after the allegations came out but now that money can't go to support his habits so I bought the Essential MJ last night.

I believe in our Justice System however flawed it may be and that says he is "innocent until proven guilty" so I have to give him the benifit of the doubt.

Plus I really thought that if he was as guilty as we thought another kid would have come forward by now and they haven't.

Maybe the guy really was nonsexual and just looking for true unconditional love- kids give you that.

I don't know he was troubled for sure but I can't stop thinking about the kid from the 70's that I grew up with-that MJ is a true innocent.

[Lyvia]

Lisa Marie Presley: "Michael Knew He Would Die Like This"

http://blogs.myspace.com/lisamariepresley

Wow. Amazing stuff.

There are a couple of things in there that are...different than the rest. That there was "suspect timing" on his part in their relationship. And that when he used his force for bad, it could be very, very bad.

There might be an a little bit of self-fulfilling prophecy in this, if it turns out drugs did contribute.

[Pretty Leaf]

Larry King stated yesterday he was to be called as a witness for MJ in his trial for overhearing at a restaurant a discussion that people in the last trial were trying to collaberate and extort money from MJ. He never testified as it was ruled hearsy evidence.

[Lyvia]

Going over the various news releases and I came across this old Vanity Fair article.

http://www.vanityfair.com/fame/features/2005/07/orth200507

I am about halfway through reading it and wondered if the author ever faced legal action? It certainly cuts to the chase and makes no bones about MJ's actions.

JMO

Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten about the other multi-million dollar settlement. So, two settlements and he still kept up the same behavior. IMO, he couldn't stop himself, so even risking more settlements or even prison, he kept doing what he had to.

[magnolia]

Bless your heart. The operator asks where he is rght now,the caller says he is on the bed,the operator says put him on the floor,the caller says,"Dr.,put him on the floor"

Yeah my point being that the operator said to put him on the floor before he knew a doctor was there. Michael didn't need to be on the floor to receive CPR from a doctor. This might not be that clear but I know what I'm saying. :)

[VC2]

What aspects of their lives do you think have been normal?
These children don't have a clue about normal..IMO

Maybe after the smoke clears they can have some sort of normal life..I hope so anyway.

Well...turns out those bizarre veils? They were Debbie Rowe's idea.

Her full interview last year: My life as the mother of Michael Jackson's children, by Debbie Rowe

This week, she invited the Mail into her home for an extraordinary, unsettling interview in which she broke the silence she has maintained for years about her infamous children. When asked about their appearance this week, she reacts with the grunt of a satisfied breeder, rather than a sigh of loss. "I turned out two pretty good-looking kids. For that I am proud."

She is breeding dogs and horses. The picture of the kids though i have to agree, they are GORGEOUS!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-513206/My-life-mother-Michael-Jacksons-children-Debbie-Rowe.html

If the comments and the attitude in the article are correct, i hope that she...does not get custody. it just feels off.

IMO

[Lyvia]

When was Nancy Grace fired?

Or Dimond? I remember that her contract wasn't renewed, but I think it was a financial or reorganization thing. Imo

[Tracian]

NG was not fired. She moved to her own show on HLN. It was during this time that she interviewed Melinda Duckett, who later committed suicide. Just wanted to keep the facts as accurate as possible.

JMO


Right, thank you.

She interviewed Melinda Duckett on HLN..and she is still there.

[magnolia]

Wow. Amazing stuff.

There are a couple of things in there that are...different than the rest. That there was "suspect timing" on his part in their relationship. And that when he used his force for bad, it could be very, very bad.

There might be an a little bit of self-fulfilling prophecy in this, if it turns out drugs did contribute.
Yeah, I took note of the very, very bad stuff. :( Wonder if we will find out what she was referring to.

[Tracian]

Or Dimond? I remember that her contract wasn't renewed, but I think it was a financial or reorganization thing. Imo


I think you are correct, this was around the time when CTV and CNN were moving people around and replacing TH's.

[Lyvia]

I think you are correct, this was around the time when CTV and CNN were moving people around and replacing TH's.

Yeah, I thought that was what went on, but I wasn't sure.

I'm always glad to see someone from the old days pop up on another show. I have really enjoyed almost everyone CTV/TruTV has had on.

[Scampi]

well scamp, we disagree vehemently on the trial but i totally agree with you about this Dr.

Hiya VC!! It's to our credit we can disagree about the trial and still remain friends I think.

FOX just announced a news conference at the Coroner's office at 1:30 pm Cali time and 4:30 EST and that the Coroner is meeting with the family right now.

[Cornblossom]

Or Dimond? I remember that her contract wasn't renewed, but I think it was a financial or reorganization thing. Imo

n 2005, Court TV, citing financial strains from expanded trial coverage on both the Scott Peterson murder case and the Michael Jackson case, decided not to renew Dimond's contract and her entire investigative unit was disbanded

[mrsmcgoo]

I think you are correct, this was around the time when CTV and CNN were moving people around and replacing TH's.

This is what I remember also Tracian.

[Lyvia]

n 2005, Court TV, citing financial strains from expanded trial coverage on both the Scott Peterson murder case and the Michael Jackson case, decided not to renew Dimond's contract and her entire investigative unit was disbanded

Why, thank you!

:)

[GentleBreeze]

TMZ said he wouldn't let them stop CPR even after he was at the hospital so i just assumed he was there but i might be wrong.

Sounds like he rode in the back of the ambulance all the way to the hospital and then went into hospital with MJ.

imo

[Pretty Leaf]

Me too. I got the impression she was not happy being told what she was going to cover on her show. She's getting on my nerves lately with her calling guest TH'S by their last name and being nasty towards Renee Rockwell. :mad:


Who is her very close friend.

[Scampi]

Going over the various news releases and I came across this old Vanity Fair article.

http://www.vanityfair.com/fame/features/2005/07/orth200507

I am about halfway through reading it and wondered if the author ever faced legal action? It certainly cuts to the chase and makes no bones about MJ's actions.

JMO


That is Maureen Orth, the widow of Tim Russert, who wrote those articles. She is a very well respected journalist, imo. To my knowledge no one has ever shown her information to be slanderous.

MSNBC has had her on reporting on Jackson's death.

Every one has a chance to view Jackson's life and form their own conclusion, imo.

[Pretty Leaf]

I fell "in love" with MJ when he sang "Ben". He and I were the same age and I loved that song...until I found out Ben was a rat!

[Scampi]

LOL -- I hope so. I am also friendly with some of the "G"s - remember that? :laugh:

Jackson's trial sure put the strain on some of us, divided us but good. I hate when that happens. :tongueside:

[VC2]

Yeah, I took note of the very, very bad stuff. :( Wonder if we will find out what she was referring to.

lets see..his self destructive behavior, his continuous plastic surgeries that no one could convince him to stop, his terrible financial habits, his refusal or inability to get rid of the vultures and leeches around him, drug use/addiction be it due to prescribed pain killers for a chronic situation that then got enabled to addiction or otherwise.

His refusal to accept help from those who had his best interests at heart, his behavior to creditors.

All "really bad stuff" but nothing sinister, just tragic IMO

eta, and yes i include his refusal to see that the perception of him having kids over and sleep overs etc was close to ruinous. Not that i believe he molested them. He was pretty stubborn.

[GentleBreeze]

Me too. I got the impression she was not happy being told what she was going to cover on her show. She's getting on my nerves lately with her calling guest TH'S by their last name and being nasty towards Renee Rockwell. :mad:

Nancy chews everyone up and spits them out like a spit ball...even the ones that are nice to her and says what she wants them to say.:laugh:

imo

[Tracian]

Me too. I got the impression she was not happy being told what she was going to cover on her show. She's getting on my nerves lately with her calling guest TH'S by their last name and being nasty towards Renee Rockwell. :mad:


She is also the first person to offer prayers and ask for prayers for those very same lawyers she locks horns with when they fall ill or have a sick family member.

No one holds a gun to the heads of her guests, obviously they like her, because the keep coming back on the show.

[kellabeck]

That is Maureen Orth, the widow of Tim Russert, who wrote those articles. She is a very well respected journalist, imo. To my knowledge no one has ever shown her information to be slanderous.

MSNBC has had her on reporting on Jackson's death.

Every one has a chance to view Jackson's life and form their own conclusion, imo.

Hi, Scamp!

Forgive if this is a repeat (I did search but didn't find any other posting) but Maureen Orth appeared on MORNING JOE on MSNBC this morning with Eugene Robinson of Washington Post, discussing Jackson.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/#31565130

[VC2]

Jackson's trial sure put the strain on some of us, divided us but good. I hate when that happens. :tongueside:

sure did! and so do I :D

[Lyvia]

lets see..his self destructive behavior, his continuous plastic surgeries that no one could convince him to stop, his terrible financial habits, his refusal or inability to get rid of the vultures and leeches around him, drug use/addiction be it due to prescribed pain killers for a chronic situation that then got enabled to addiction or otherwise.

His refusal to accept help from those who had his best interests at heart, his behavior to creditors.

All "really bad stuff" but nothing sinister, just tragic IMO
<snip>.

I don't think her phrasing supports your interpretation at all. You don't really use a "force" to get plastic surgery or drug use or anything you've suggested. A "Force" has nothing to with self-destruction, not in the way she's phrased it. She's intimating something there, and especially in context with the "suspect timing" comment, she's hinting at something dark. imo.

[StickyBeak]

Going over the various news releases and I came across this old Vanity Fair article.

http://www.vanityfair.com/fame/features/2005/07/orth200507

I am about halfway through reading it and wondered if the author ever faced legal action? It certainly cuts to the chase and makes no bones about MJ's actions.

JMO

Maureen Orth, widow of Tim Russert. She was on the Today show this morning with Matt Lauer. She was adamant that MJ was a pedophile and unforgiving for what he did to those boys he was accused of assulting. She stated the Mother of the boy was backed into a corner by the defense attorney. I was really surprised with her statements. He Matt Laurer reminded her MJ was acquitted of charges.

[mrsmcgoo]

That is Maureen Orth, the widow of Tim Russert, who wrote those articles. She is a very well respected journalist, imo. To my knowledge no one has ever shown her information to be slanderous.

MSNBC has had her on reporting on Jackson's death.

Every one has a chance to view Jackson's life and form their own conclusion, imo.

Thank you so much for that information. I had no idea that she is Tim Russert's widow.

:smile:

[Lyvia]

What was the 2nd settlement? :confused:

It's in the link. First paragraph. Over two million this time. I am almost certain it was covered in the trial that so many of us say we were glued to and missed not a second of.

[Citygirl]

NG was not fired. She moved to her own show on HLN. It was during this time that she interviewed Melinda Duckett, who later committed suicide. Just wanted to keep the facts as accurate as possible.

JMO


Hey darlin..:seeya: it's a great pleasure to see you..and you are correct..NG was not fired..she just moved on up the ladder..some of the old CTV th's will not be so lucky..

I can't watch the Doctor stuff till later tonight..and I predict there will be bombshells tonight and even more as time goes on..

and how many actually think MJ's children have even a speck of MJ blood/DNA/genes in them..not I.

[VC2]

Just said on the news the kids and the nanny are with MJ's mom. They have not heard from Rowe.

how very motherly of her. Actually after her comment about marriage and "i have done the breeding stage, i don't need the rest of the ^%#$#" (in the link i posted with the interview last year) it doesn't surprise me.

IMO

[LILMANMAX]

I hope LE get some straight answers from the DR.

Why FGS did the home not have the proper medical equip on hand in case of an emergency? Where was the defibulator? The correct medications in case of an OD using strong drugs?

This guy was a cardiologist for crying out loud.

[legalmania]

Some children claim he was a child molester and some don't. The ones with money like Macaulay Culkin and Emanuel Luis said he wasn't and ones with no money said he was so who do you believe?

[VC2]

What was the 2nd settlement? :confused:

Remember the "shorts" guy :laugh: His testimony was ludicrous, iirc we all just about dropped our jaws to the floor with it that the pros even put him on the stand.

You probably forgot it because if anything it bolstered the defense.

[bkwits]

And many of us did the same and believe he is guilty, and that the jury was dead wrong. Just as some of the jury came to believe that.


I followed the trial closely, and I believe the jury made the wrong decision. MJ bought his way out. IMO

[who_is_it]

so sad...

Michael Jackson’s Manager: I ‘Had To Tell The Children’

"We had to tell the children. I didn’t go in alone. I went in with a doctor and a social worker. The nanny was in there and Dr. Murray – Michael’s personal physician. It was, as you would think,' a visibly emotional Dileo continued. 'I can’t even begin to tell you the emotion that flowed out of those children.'"

http://www.accesshollywood.com/michael-jacksons-manager-i-had-to-tell-the-children_article_19755

"'I was with Michael everyday going to rehearsals – Wednesday and Thursday he was the happiest,' the manager recalled. “On Wednesday, he put his arm around me at the end [of the day] and he said, ‘Frank, I’ve never been happier. We’re going to make this work… It’s our time again Frank. We’re going to do this!"

[Lyvia]

I believe he molested children. Groomed many, molested some. We know that pedophiles choose their victims, and tend to pick vulnerable children. And we know children sometimes deny being molested, because of the shame. All in all, with everything I know, I believe Michael Jackson, a great talent, was also someone who hurt children.

Since you asked.

[mrsmcgoo]

Hey darlin..:seeya: it's a great pleasure to see you..and you are correct..NG was not fired..she just moved on up the ladder..some of the old CTV th's will not be so lucky..

I can't watch the Doctor stuff till later tonight..and I predict there will be bombshells tonight and even more as time goes on..

and how many actually think MJ's children have even a speck of MJ blood/DNA/genes in them..not I.

It's a great pleasure to see you! :seeya:

I agree whole heartedly about the bombshell Dr stuff that will trickle out. I bet the Jackson family is in damage control at the moment. I do feel sorry for Katherine. By all accounts she was a kind lady. And of course the children.

[Lyvia]

Remember the "shorts" guy :laugh: His testimony was ludicrous, iirc we all just about dropped our jaws to the floor with it that the pros even put him on the stand.

You probably forgot it because if anything it bolstered the defense.

It sure didn't. It was heartbreaking. And, of course, the settlement was over 2 million dollars.

The other one was twenty million.

He paid millions. He risked prison.

And still...he couldn't stop keep bringing boys into his bed.

He told the world, including children, that adults and children should sleep in the same bed, something that made those children who listened and believed more vulnerable to predators. He even said he'd let his own children sleep in the same bed with an adult, even if that adult had been accused of molesting children. That's how desperate he was to defend his practice.

[legalmania]

how very motherly of her. Actually after her comment about marriage and "i have done the breeding stage, i don't need the rest of the ^%#$#" (in the link i posted with the interview last year) it doesn't surprise me.

IMO

I wouldn't take what I hear right now as a given. She could be sitting there with her children as we speak. Or she may not be welcomed in the home, nobody knows the truth yet.

[VC2]

I hope LE get some straight answers from the DR.

Why FGS did the home not have the proper medical equip on hand in case of an emergency? Where was the defibulator? The correct medications in case of an OD using strong drugs?

This guy was a cardiologist for crying out loud.

My biggest shock is no defibrillator. It should be standard if you have a person like MJ who i think we can all agree had health issues whether or not it was "just" drugs or not. As a cardioligist of ALL doctors to not have a portable defib with him at the house is bizarre. Anything could have happened..yes heart, or overdose, or stress, he was known and admitted eating very little..whether or not he was actually anorexic or not is another issue but that can cause cardiac arrest.

JMO

[happy2bme]

It sure didn't. It was heartbreaking. And, of course, the settlement was over 2 million dollars.

The other one was twenty million.

He paid millions. He risked prison.

And still...he couldn't stop keep bringing boys into his bed.

He told the world, including children, that adults and children should sleep in the same bed, something that made those children who listened and believed more vulnerable to predators. He even said he'd let his own children sleep in the same bed with an adult, even if that adult had been accused of molesting children. That's how desperate he was to defend his practice.

He really said that??:confused:

[Citygirl]

It's a great pleasure to see you! :seeya:

I agree whole heartedly about the bombshell Dr stuff that will trickle out. I bet the Jackson family is in damage control at the moment. I do feel sorry for Katherine. By all accounts she was a kind lady. And of course the children.


I think they started damage control yesterday when they realized he was already cold..they spent 2 hours doin something before 911 was called..hiding stuff/removing stuff/cleaning up before the police got there..yep..they were busy folks IMO..
big smooch to you..I have to run out for a bit..

[sallemae]

Maureen Orth, widow of Tim Russert. She was on the Today show this morning with Matt Lauer. She was adamant that MJ was a pedophile and unforgiving for what he did to those boys he was accused of assulting. She stated the Mother of the boy was backed into a corner by the defense attorney. I was really surprised with her statements. He Matt Laurer reminded her MJ was acquitted of charges.



I just loved Tim Russert, RIP. I found it hard to believe that Maureen and Tim were married, their reporting style differed so much. He was so factual, and she so emotional.

[Lyvia]

He really said that??:confused:

Yes, here's the lin (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/25/entertainment/main5115351_page2.shtml)k. I can't quote, because it's all rights reserved, but it's in there.

Copyright ©2009 CBS Interactive Inc. All rights reserved

[mrsmcgoo]

I think they started damage control yesterday when they realized he was already cold..they spent 2 hours doin something before 911 was called..hiding stuff/removing stuff/cleaning up before the police got there..yep..they were busy folks IMO..
big smooch to you..I have to run out for a bit..

Yep, we are on the same page here girl! I am curious to know who was in the house, who came and went. I see an inquest in the making.

smoochies back at ya!

JMO

[VC2]

Maureen Orth, widow of Tim Russert. She was on the Today show this morning with Matt Lauer. She was adamant that MJ was a pedophile and unforgiving for what he did to those boys he was accused of assulting. She stated the Mother of the boy was backed into a corner by the defense attorney. I was really surprised with her statements. He Matt Laurer reminded her MJ was acquitted of charges.

"backed into a corner by the defense" omg.. yes right. What they did is prove in court that she had a pattern of sexual abuse or assault lawsuit allegations that fit like a glove with this supposed incident. My personal belief is that the reason they went through with the trial is that she believed she would get much more if he was convicted in a civil suit and had Sneddon urging her on. In her other suits she actually settled first but this was a big fish she hooked.

Mesereau backed her into a corner allright, in fact one insurance company that had paid out iirc went after her for it with the evidence that came out in trial or were considering it. He also exposed her welfare fraud, and so much more, but the important thing was the pattern of lawsuits

JMO

[legalmania]

She needs to learn some Grace in her snotty attitude with her GUEST TH'S. There's no reason or excuse to be rude to guests on her show.JMO

RIP Michael

Sometimes I don't understand why she seems so rude and then I remember her fiance was brutally murdered, and she had a very hard time conceiving, so when somebody harms a child I think it brings back the hardships she has suffered.

[Scampi]

My biggest shock is no defibrillator. It should be standard if you have a person like MJ who i think we can all agree had health issues whether or not it was "just" drugs or not. As a cardioligist of ALL doctors to not have a portable defib with him at the house is bizarre. Anything could have happened..yes heart, or overdose, or stress, he was known and admitted eating very little..whether or not he was actually anorexic or not is another issue but that can cause cardiac arrest.

JMO

I wonder if Mr. Jackson had a living will, with instructions not to activate a defibrillator or other limiting instructions?

[Cornblossom]

Remember the "shorts" guy :laugh: His testimony was ludicrous, iirc we all just about dropped our jaws to the floor with it that the pros even put him on the stand.

You probably forgot it because if anything it bolstered the defense.
He paid one child 20/25 million...then he paid a maid's son 2 million didn't he?

[who_is_it]

<snipped>
Maybe the guy really was nonsexual and just looking for true unconditional love- kids give you that.
<snipped>


I believe so but with a shy love for women.

[legalmania]

I thought Dr. Murray was missing? :confused:

He hauled buns. Wonder why? I think we're gonna find Dr. Murray wrote more prescriptions than necessary.

[sallemae]

I was at an amusment park yesterday as the news came out. I did hear some cheering too when people told each other. It wasn't racism either...most were black.


Oh come on now, I find that hard to believe!!!I just read that sales of his music has skyrocketed, and is sold out at online and brick and mortar stores everywhere.

MILLIONS and I do mean MILLIONS loved MJ and his music.

There is no doubt about that!!

[Lyvia]

He paid one child 20/25 million...then he paid a maid's son 2 million didn't he?

Yep. The maid's son testified. That's who VC2 said they laughed at.

(and still....he risked prison and more settlements by bringing young boys into his bed)

imo

[Cornblossom]

I thought Dr. Murray was missing? :confused:
he was but now he is found and speaking to police.

[sallemae]

He paid one child 20/25 million...then he paid a maid's son 2 million didn't he?


He didn't pay the child......... he paid the GREEDY so called parent.... what parent in their right mind collects money for their child supposedly being molested and doesn't press charges and want jail time!!!!!

[Shameonme]

I'm a bit surprised to find the hero-like adoration of Michael Jackson, here on this site (one seemingly devoted to justice and right/wrong). I had to check to make sure I wasn't on his official fan site.

There's lots of information that he had an unhealthly lifestyle, was bizzare, and had questionable relationships with children. Many seem to excuse the red flags regarding children. Can't believe it the sugar-coating going on.

With this being said, MJ was an amazing talent and could entertain like very few. I'm not happy that he has died but he is no idol. Not even close.

Bravo great post and I too am surprised by the pouring of rose's and all. It's not what I expected from a site where a lot of posters say they are child advocates. Comparing him to Elvis must have Elvis turning somersaults in his grave.

[legalmania]

He didn't pay the child......... he paid the GREEDY so called parent.... what parent in their right mind collects money for their child supposedly being molested and doesn't press charges and want jail time!!!!!


The father from what I remember was deeply in debt, I know if my kid was molested I wouldn't rest until he was in jail. Him not even pressing charges was strange.

[kipswife]

Bravo great post and I too am surprised by the pouring of rose's and all. It's not what I expected from a site where a lot of posters say they are child advocates. Comparing him to Elvis must have him turning somersaults in his grave.

DITTO......it was a freak fest here yesterday and if you were not part of it, you were disrespectful to the dead and uncaring and such. glad to see some common sense has show up today

[happy2bme]

Forgive me for asking...I did not follow MJ's trial. My question: Was there actually any evidence proving MJ molested this boy?

[Cornblossom]

I wonder if Mr. Jackson had a living will, with instructions not to activate a defibrillator or other limiting instructions?
If he had a DNR..I don't think they can even do the CPR could they?:seeya:

[VC2]

Yes, here's the lin (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/25/entertainment/main5115351_page2.shtml)k. I can't quote, because it's all rights reserved, but it's in there.

Copyright ©2009 CBS Interactive Inc. All rights reserved

He did NOT say he would let his kids sleep in a room with child molesters!

He said that if someone he knew very well personally had the same ALLEGATIONS as had been made against him in public (remember this was even before a trial) he would have no problem because he knows first hand how the media twists things or makes things up.

I believe under TOS and the fair use law we are still allowed to copy a small part in context so here it is:

"Would you, as a parent, allow your children to sleep in the same bedroom with someone who has the suspicions and allegations that have been made against you and about you today? Would you allow that?" Bradley asked. "If you knew someone who had the same... kind of allegations...that were made against you...would you let your children...sleep in that man's bedroom?"

"If I knew the person personally, because I know how the press is. I know how people can twist the truth. If I knew the person personally, absolutely yes. Absolutely. I wouldn't have a problem with it," Jackson said.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/25/entertainment/main5115351_page2.shtml

[Shameonme]

DITTO......it was a freak fest here yesterday and if you were not part of it, you were disrespectful to the dead and uncaring and such. glad to see some common sense has show up today


Thank you kipswife
I seen that and decided to wait 24 hours to post because I was afarid of what I would say. No sense getting banned over the likes of MJ.

[bkwits]

I'm a bit surprised to find the hero-like adoration of Michael Jackson, here on this site (one seemingly devoted to justice and right/wrong). I had to check to make sure I wasn't on his official fan site.

There's lots of information that he had an unhealthly lifestyle, was bizzare, and had questionable relationships with children. Many seem to excuse the red flags regarding children. Can't believe it the sugar-coating going on.

With this being said, MJ was an amazing talent and could entertain like very few. I'm not happy that he has died but he is no idol. Not even close.


Well said. To admire and enjoy the art, one does not have to admire the person. Many great artists were degenerates or mentally unstable. Picasso hated women. Van Gogh was insane. Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin, Bobby Brown alledgely beat Whitney Houston many times. many artists are or were serious drug users. The list goes on and on.

I like MJ's music an especially his videos with the dancing, but, IMO, he was a flawed human being.

[Cornblossom]

He didn't pay the child......... he paid the GREEDY so called parent.... what parent in their right mind collects money for their child supposedly being molested and doesn't press charges and want jail time!!!!!
the money is supposed to go to the child,usually if the child is a minor-it is put in a trust until he/she is of legal age. I guess the greedy parent is the same as some of the rape victims that get paid off by celebrities and never press charges.

[happy2bme]

The jury didn't think so.

Thank you.

RIP MJ.

[legalmania]

Just like any other pedophile...they carefully chose their victims. For example...a baseball coach doesn't molest every child on the team;)

What about the parents they knew about the accusations and they still allowed their children around him and they let them spend the night. I can see the children not understanding but the adults have no excuse.

[Lyvia]

I believe under TOS and the fair use law we are still allowed to copy a small part in context so here it is:
<snip>
Not when it's ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Edit!

(Even though that proves he said just he'd let his children sleep with an adult accused of chld molestation.

[kellabeck]

Some children claim he was a child molester and some don't. The ones with money like Macaulay Culkin and Emanuel Luis said he wasn't and ones with no money said he was so who do you believe?

The boys who said they were molested. I believe them.

And for all the people who think the last accuser (in a long line of them) did it for money-- then why didn't he and his family ever seek a pay out??

[Lyvia]

What about the parents they knew about the accusations and they still allowed their children around him and they let them spend the night. I can see the children not understanding but the adults have no excuse.

Right. And those are the kinds of parents pedophiles love.

By the way, Michael Jackson said he'd let his children sleep with an adult accused of child molestation (like above). He said as long as he knew the person, but what kind of parent would take that chance, let alone encourage others to! That interview was a disgrace!

[Shameonme]

SHAMEONYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!:tonguewag: I disagree with your post. I just won't believe he ever would or could harm a child. I think these accusations tormented his soul because he knew they were false. JMO

So your ok with him dangling a baby over a 3 story banister and in his own words sleeping with young boys. Unbelievable

[kellabeck]

It sure didn't. It was heartbreaking. And, of course, the settlement was over 2 million dollars.

The other one was twenty million.

He paid millions. He risked prison.

And still...he couldn't stop keep bringing boys into his bed.

He told the world, including children, that adults and children should sleep in the same bed, something that made those children who listened and believed more vulnerable to predators. He even said he'd let his own children sleep in the same bed with an adult, even if that adult had been accused of molesting children. That's how desperate he was to defend his practice.

I'm with ya! As people said during his trial, and I believed, had the defendant been some guy in the jurors' neighborhood with a pinball machine in his garage instead of an estate called Neverland, he would have been convicted in a nanosecond.

[flipflop]

I wonder if there could be a links thread. I have been trying to read here off and on and have been scrolling back and back trying to find links to some of the things being discussed.

[Brooke]

What aspects of their lives do you think have been normal?
These children don't have a clue about normal..IMO

Maybe after the smoke clears they can have some sort of normal life..I hope so anyway.

I dont think any part of their life has been normal. I would like to think (this is just my maternal side) that MJ tried to shield them or protect them from the media circus that followed his every move. I could very well be very wrong though. I do hope at somepoint in their future they will have some sort of normalcy in their lives. JMO

[VC2]

The father from what I remember was deeply in debt, I know if my kid was molested I wouldn't rest until he was in jail. Him not even pressing charges was strange.

If you are really interested, search the MJ trial forum, there were discussions and i believe transcripts of his actual testimony. It wasn't just strange it was testimony far far more helpful to the defense because imo it was clear MJ never molested the maids son and the son came very close to admitting it imo. The reason i and others were laughing at the time was more at how the prosecution must have been absolutely desperate to put him on the stand. His testimony was not quite as ludicrous as "he bumped into me when i was wearing shorts" but it was about as close to molestation and very very strange testimony. The jury did not believe him either. i may be wrong but i think that was one case where the reporting of the testimony was vastly different from the actual testimony

JMO

[jewel6]

The coroners press conference is gonna be shown on

tmz www.tmz.com.

[kellabeck]

Yep. The maid's son testified. That's who VC2 said they laughed at.

(and still....he risked prison and more settlements by bringing young boys into his bed)

That's because he it was a compulsion. It's why molesters reoffend and can't be rehabilitated.
JMO

[Lyvia]

I'm with ya! As people said during his trial, and I believed, had the defendant been some guy in the jurors' neighborhood with a pinball machine in his garage instead of an estate called Neverland, he would have been convicted in a nanosecond.

I think so, too. And what I think is hard for some people to understand is that few if any of us woke up one day and decided to think Michael Jackson was a pedophile. I loved his music so much, from the time I was a child. And I always felt sad for him, because there was a sadness. But I couldn't help coming to the belief that he was guilty of the crimes he was accused of and some he was not.

[Shameonme]

So you just came here to stir the pot?

Hey you quoted me and still didn't answer my ? to you. Your ok with him dangling the baby over a banister and slepping with young boy's.

[lune3]

I'm bothered by the fact that it's reported that MJ's body was cold when EMTs arrived. I might be wrong but body temp lowering to coldness would take more time than 10 minutes wouldn't it?
What was going on before the 911 call was placed? There's a time lapse I find disconcerting.

According to the following, the body should not have been cold to the touch shortly after death.

"Algor mortis, which means "the temperature of death" describes the cooling of the body. In ideal conditions, the rate at which a body cools is one degree per hour. "

and:

"If the body feels:

Warm and not stiff: Not dead more than three hours
Warm and stiff: Dead between 3 and 8 hours
Cold and stiff: Dead between 8 and 36 hours
Cold and not stiff: Dead more than 36 hours"

Investigative Techniques To Determine Time of Death
http://www.studyworld.com/basementpapers/papers/stack12_14.html

[jewel6]

I'm bothered by the fact that it's reported that MJ's body was cold when EMTs arrived. I might be wrong but body temp lowering to coldness would take more time than 10 minutes wouldn't it?
What was going on before the 911 call was placed? There's a time lapse I find disconcerting.

According to the following, the body should not have been cold to the touch shortly after death.

"Algor mortis, which means "the temperature of death" describes the cooling of the body. In ideal conditions, the rate at which a body cools is one degree per hour. "

and:

"If the body feels:

Warm and not stiff: Not dead more than three hours
Warm and stiff: Dead between 3 and 8 hours
Cold and stiff: Dead between 8 and 36 hours
Cold and not stiff: Dead more than 36 hours"

Investigative Techniques To Determine Time of Death
http://www.studyworld.com/basementpapers/papers/stack12_14.html

I think michael had been dead for a while and the doctor knew it. A dr would know if you could bring somebody back. jmo

[kellabeck]

He didn't pay the child......... he paid the GREEDY so called parent.... what parent in their right mind collects money for their child supposedly being molested and doesn't press charges and want jail time!!!!!

The parent who's aware of the power of celebrity and money and the parent who doesn't want to put his child through the rigors of a trial.

I agree that they should have pressed charges instead of settling. The many, many victims that Jackson continued to molest after J**** are on their consciences.

Still, knowing the power of Jackson, I can sympathize if not condone.

And, I do believe that the money went to a trust for J**** not the parents, btw.

[LILMANMAX]

I wonder if Mr. Jackson had a living will, with instructions not to activate a defibrillator or other limiting instructions?

If he had a LW his DR would have called the death. No measures would have been taken.

This DR is making me very suspect to say the least. JMO

[Brooke]

Right. And those are the kinds of parents pedophiles love.

By the way, Michael Jackson said he'd let his children sleep with an adult accused of child molestation (like above). He said as long as he knew the person, but what kind of parent would take that chance, let alone encourage others to! That interview was a disgrace!


I think from Nevaeh to Haylee we can see the type of parents... IMO it is the parents whose friends seem to come before their childrens safety!! JMHO

[*Serenity*]

Coroner to report live within few mins I'm watching cnn

Also Liz comments:

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/06/75813/

[jewel6]

If he had a LW his DR would have called the death. No measures would have been taken.

This DR is making me very suspect to say the least. JMO

Didnt the emts want to call it and call the coroner? thats what i heard so i beleive he had been dead for a while. jmo

[kipswife]

SHAMEONYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!:tonguewag: I disagree with your post. I just won't believe he ever would or could harm a child. I think these accusations tormented his soul because he knew they were false. JMO

wagging your tongue....how childish because you dont like what a poster says. someone needs to grow up

[legalmania]

The boys who said they were molested. I believe them.

And for all the people who think the last accuser (in a long line of them) did it for money-- then why didn't he and his family ever seek a pay out??

In the beginning Michaels attorneys said for him to settle and it would go away. Michael finally decided to stop paying and go to trail. He was found not guilty on all counts. I don't know what happened to those boys, something did, why their parents continually let them hang out with a grown man is beyond my comprehension.

[lune3]

I think michael had been dead for a while and the doctor knew it. A dr would know if you could bring somebody back. jmo

I agree. I also find it strange that this doc insisted on continued CPR efforts long after MJ died, even at the hospital. To me this is a red flag. I think he was panicking for reasons more than the fact MJ collapsed.

[Cornblossom]

Didnt the emts want to call it and call the coroner? thats what i heard so i beleive he had been dead for a while. jmo
yes they wanted to call time,the doctor made them do CPR even after they reached the hospital.

[Ice Cycle]

Bravo great post and I too am surprised by the pouring of rose's and all. It's not what I expected from a site where a lot of posters say they are child advocates. Comparing him to Elvis must have Elvis turning somersaults in his grave.

Well the is many reasons for that, for one he was never proved guilty and secondly he at one time appeared to of led a normal though high profile life and people are relating to performances not his personal life. The truth is that most famous people can go on talk shows and give public interviews and come off appearing great but the fact of it is most of that is acting also. No one really knows what goes on behind close doors and the fact is the public is not suppose to, that is unless it is something unlawful.
I don't think the truth or many of his reasons for doing the things he did will ever be known for sure as tabloids do run ramped on most top stars. For whatever reason he made himself a target with all the voice acting and peculiar ways later on, their could be alot of reasons (many of which I would not agree with) but don't believe the truth will ever be known. Regardless by a court of law he was declared innocent and few would deny that he did make good music and was a icon of many generations and most people choose to remember him that way.

[jewel6]

yes they wanted to call time,the doctor made them do CPR even after they reached the hospital.

Im interested in hearing from the coroner the exact time of death. jmo I think it was way befor they called it. jmo

[kellabeck]

He did NOT say he would let his kids sleep in a room with child molesters!

He said that if someone he knew very well personally had the same ALLEGATIONS as had been made against him in public (remember this was even before a trial) he would have no problem because he knows first hand how the media twists things or makes things up.

I believe under TOS and the fair use law we are still allowed to copy a small part in context so here it is:


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/25/entertainment/main5115351_page2.shtml

And that's ridiculous. How could a responsible parent agree to let a child sleep with an adult against whom there were multiple allegations of molestation?

And the better question is: What man wants to sleep night after night with a series of lookalike prepubescent boys?

[kellabeck]

Oh, of course! Dr. Murray will take the weight for MJ's death (indirectly) and The Jacksons will probably have him arrested.

The truth is that they all knew about Dr. Murray so they should have had him arrested before the death.

Was Dr Murray dispensing drugs against Jackson's will? I doubt it.

Although I don't doubt that he may be vulnerable to charges, it won't be the family having him arrested, imo.

[Scampi]

They are now reporting the news conference has been delayed until 5:30 p.m. EST.

[VC2]

Not when it's ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Edit!

(Even though that proves he said just he'd let his children sleep with an adult accused of chld molestation.

I just reported my post to CW asking her to edit if i was incorrect. I understood it was only AP that we can not copy anything from.

[jewel6]

They are now reporting the news conference has been delayed until 5:30 p.m. EST.

Are you serious? darn it!

[Cornblossom]

Im interested in hearing from the coroner the exact time of death. jmo I think it was way befor they called it. jmoI agree with you...IMO,,,there is something about this death that makes this doctor nervous......

[*Serenity*]

They are now reporting the news conference has been delayed until 5:30 p.m. EST.

What channel?
I'm watching CNN and they went to com/break and coming back?
Just curious-- I don't wanna sit here and wait... lol

[kellabeck]

The jury didn't think so.

And neither did Orenthal Simpson's first jury. That doesn't mean either one was in fact not guilty.

[jewel6]

now they are saying a hour and half to two hour delay!! Why?

[Scampi]

If he had a DNR..I don't think they can even do the CPR could they?:seeya:

Hiya Cornie, no they couldn't. But, I am disturbed by the reports we are hearing of this cardiologist's actions. With a cardiac arrest, if they do not resume breathing within 7 minutes, it is hopeless, imo. To hear reports that Dr. Murray continued CPR for hours seems outrageous to me and denotes an emotional response to the crisis rather then a professional one.

A very curious case, imo.

[Cornblossom]

they are now reporting the news conference has been delayed until 5:30 p.m. Est.
grooooooooooooann!!!

[lune3]

Im interested in hearing from the coroner the exact time of death. jmo I think it was way befor they called it. jmo

According to my link posted up thread, the body cools by 1 degree per hour, and that's rectal temp. There's no way MJ died shortly before the 911 call, by a long shot. His body was cold to the touch. If skin temp was already cold, internal temp must have been way below.
Why was 911 not called right after MJ collapsed? Even if the doc attempted to revive him, and obviously failed, waiting such a length of time is just highly suspect.

[Brooke]

Briefing has been delayed 60-90 minutes at most per CNN

[LisaM22]

And neither did Orenthal Simpson's first jury. That doesn't mean either one was in fact not guilty.

let's be fair, a guilty or not guilty doesn't mean one did it or not, it only says what the jury thinks happened based on the evidence presented to them, they could be wrong no mater what verdict they render, guilty or not guilty

[Shameonme]

Well the is many reasons for that, for one he was never proved guilty and secondly he at one time appeared to of led a normal though high profile life and people are relating to performances not his personal life. The truth is that most famous people can go on talk shows and give public interviews and come off appearing great but the fact of it is most of that is acting also. No one really knows what goes on behind close doors and the fact is the public is not suppose to, that is unless it is something unlawful.
I don't think the truth or many of his reasons for doing the things he did will ever be known for sure as tabloids do run ramped on most top stars. For whatever reason he made himself a target with all the voice acting and peculiar ways later on, their could be alot of reasons (many of which I would not agree with) but don't believe the truth will ever be known. Regardless by a court of law he was declared innocent and few would deny that he did make good music and was a icon of many generations and most people choose to remember him that way.

Thats all well and good but by his own words he told the world what he was. He said and I quote he is ok with taking young boys into his bedroom and sleeping in the same bed with them. How on earth do you get past that.

[GentleBreeze]

He paid one child 20/25 million...then he paid a maid's son 2 million didn't he?

I can see that happening. 25 million to MJ at that time was nothing but a drop in the bucket.

A very close honest Prosecutor friend told me that sometimes the mere criminal allegations made against someone has far more reaching repercussions than even a conviction. And there is nothing more detrimental than being accused of sexual abuse.

imo

[kellabeck]

Right. And those are the kinds of parents pedophiles love.

By the way, Michael Jackson said he'd let his children sleep with an adult accused of child molestation (like above). He said as long as he knew the person, but what kind of parent would take that chance, let alone encourage others to! That interview was a disgrace!

ITA! And I would add that pedophiles usually pick the children from broken homes, vulnerable children who are needy and less able to stand up and accuse, and often are apt to be found not credible.

Let's see, you have some poor little Hispanic boy over here and over there a world-famous, incredibly rich celebrity.

Fair fight? Not on your life.

I believe the accusers.

[lune3]

I agree with you...IMO,,,there is something about this death that makes this doctor nervous......

Exactly. ....Why?

[Scampi]

What channel?
I'm watching CNN and they went to com/break and coming back?
Just curious-- I don't wanna sit here and wait... lol

FOX, but now all of them are reporting the delay.

[jewel6]

I agree with you...IMO,,,there is something about this death that makes this doctor nervous......

Yea kind of scary! The emts wanted to call it when they arrived. That means they had to know by his body that there was no bringing him back. jmo

[Tracian]

Didn't she start doing stand ins for LKL first?

imo


No. When NG left CTV, she was already doing her show on HLN. When she signed off of CTV, she would 'plug' the HLN show, reminding of the time, and station.

She like Crier, and others left CTV shortly before the switch over to TRU.

[Cornblossom]

Hiya Cornie, no they couldn't. But, I am disturbed by the reports we are hearing of this cardiologist's actions. With a cardiac arrest, if they do not resume breathing within 7 minutes, it is hopeless, imo. To hear reports that Dr. Murray continued CPR for hours seems outrageous to me and denotes an emotional response to the crisis rather then a professional one.

A very curious case, imo.Hiya Scamp......I'm with you...he's acting pretty nervous....by making them do CPR that long and by becoming MIA.

[*Serenity*]

FOX, but now all of them are reporting the delay.

thx

just heard there is not a doctor that is willing to sign the death cert

[who_is_it]

Larry King stated yesterday he was to be called as a witness for MJ in his trial for overhearing at a restaurant a discussion that people in the last trial were trying to collaberate and extort money from MJ. He never testified as it was ruled hearsy evidence.

so sad. now they all come up and support him by statements..., now when it's too late. at least larry king supported him indirectly but inviting people from his camp on the show.

[Tracian]

let's be fair, a guilty or not guilty doesn't mean one did it or not, it only says what the jury thinks happened based on the evidence presented to them, they could be wrong no mater what verdict they render, guilty or not guilty


Very true, Lisa.

[jewel6]

thx

just heard there is not a doctor that is willing to sign the death cert

Why? I thought the emergency room dr that called it has to sign it. am i wrong?

[GentleBreeze]

I'm bothered by the fact that it's reported that MJ's body was cold when EMTs arrived. I might be wrong but body temp lowering to coldness would take more time than 10 minutes wouldn't it?
What was going on before the 911 call was placed? There's a time lapse I find disconcerting.

According to the following, the body should not have been cold to the touch shortly after death.

"Algor mortis, which means "the temperature of death" describes the cooling of the body. In ideal conditions, the rate at which a body cools is one degree per hour. "

and:

"If the body feels:

Warm and not stiff: Not dead more than three hours
Warm and stiff: Dead between 3 and 8 hours
Cold and stiff: Dead between 8 and 36 hours
Cold and not stiff: Dead more than 36 hours"

Investigative Techniques To Determine Time of Death
http://www.studyworld.com/basementpapers/papers/stack12_14.html

I think that information is just wrong. Imo the EMTs wouldn't have tried to keep working on him if he was cold to the touch nor would the hospital staff.

I think the media is just buzzing and somethings are in error.

He didnt even look pale and ashen in the death photo.

imo

[Shameonme]

ITA! And I would add that pedophiles usually pick the children from broken homes, vulnerable children who are needy and less able to stand up and accuse, and often are apt to be found not credible.

Let's see, you have some poor little Hispanic boy over here and over there a world-famous, incredibly rich celebrity.

Fair fight? Not on your life.

I believe the accusers.

As do I, like all predators they go for the weakest

[VC2]

grooooooooooooann!!!

i know, i so want to hear at least the preliminary structural report.

lol after waiting this long, we are going to hear "The autopsy was started at 8 am pst and concluded at xx pst. Tissue samples and blood samples were take to be sent to toxicology. The results will take 6-8 weeks, until then we have nothing further to say"

at which point i will pound my head against the wall!!!

IMO

[GentleBreeze]

No. When NG left CTV, she was already doing her show on HLN. When she signed off of CTV, she would 'plug' the HLN show, reminding of the time, and station.

She like Crier, and others left CTV shortly before the switch over to TRU.

I sure wish Crier was back. I really liked her over a lot of the others.

imo

[Cornblossom]

thx

just heard there is not a doctor that is willing to sign the death cert
the guy who does the autopsy's suppose to sign it aren't they? Or the person who pronounces the body dead......?

[magnolia]

SHAMEONYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!:tonguewag: I disagree with your post. I just won't believe he ever would or could harm a child. I think these accusations tormented his soul because he knew they were false. JMO
Why don't you think he could harm a child? Because he was found not guilty??? It's very possible he did - lots of info out there.

[True2Blues]

Michael Jackson was his own worst enemy and any problems he has had, were of his own making!

I am so sick of him being the perpetual victim. He was a grown man with the money to do whatever he pleased....and he did exactly that. Right up until he died. There was no genuine love or concern for children. Not even his. IMO

I would hardly compare welfare fraud to child molestation.....but that's just me. The real victim, the boy....didn't commit welfare fraud. So what his mother was a fruit loop for ever allowing her son alone with MJ. It doesn't mean for a second the boy lied. IMO

Exactly right. I agree with you completely. No matter what has happened to a person, they have no right to victimize others.

[sallemae]

I was so disgusted with the CBS special. It had such a huge viewership, including kids, and he went on and on about how great it was for adults to share their beds with kids. He even said (and I linked to this earlier) that he would let his children sleep with adults he knew, even if they were accused of child molestation. That's how far he was willing to go to defend and normalize that practice. He wasn't thinking of children. I don't even have children and my first thought was for the potential harm to children from his statements.



Share a bed, what a loving thing to do. I take it at face value, and don't go to the gutter with it.

Just think about how many commercials there are with a parent or parents in bed, and for whatever reason, (a child gets scared) and they go and get comforted in the bed.

:unsure: defend and normalize that practice....lol

[kipswife]

I sure wish Crier was back. I really liked her over a lot of the others.

imo

same here. wonder what she is doing these days. anyone know?

[jewel6]

the guy who does the autopsy's suppose to sign it aren't they? Or the person who pronounces the body dead......?

I thought it would be emergency room dr that called it.

[kellabeck]

Why don't you think he could harm a child? Because he was found not guilty??? It's very possible he did - lots of info out there.

There were FANS on that jury. Just like Simpson's first case. No way were they going to convict.

Fans don't want to believe that Michael would harm a child and no amount of evidence will change their minds.

[legalmania]

As do I, like all predators they go for the weakest

Not necessarily I've heard some very well known celeberties who claim to have been molested by their managers, when they were young and some were in their teens.

[GentleBreeze]

I thought it would be emergency room dr that called it.

The doctor that pronounced death would sign off on the death certificate, I would think. They will probably have the head ME come in and review the autopsy findings before he signs off on it. He may not do that now because it is not complete until tox tests come back in.

imo

[who_is_it]

And if the young man who settled the case had testified perhaps the outcome may have been different; but he didn't. :shrug:

i always wished and still wish jordy would speak out. when the case was settled he was too young to judge right from wrong and acted like his parents wanted him to act.

btw, jordy chandler got a restraining order against his father some years ago. he claimed his father wanted to kill him.

[Scampi]

Hiya Scamp......I'm with you...he's acting pretty nervous....by making them do CPR that long and by becoming MIA.

I think Dr. Murray was busy retaining an attorney, he may just need one, imo.

[FallenAngel♥]

I think that information is just wrong. Imo the EMTs wouldn't have tried to keep working on him if he was cold to the touch nor would the hospital staff.

I think the media is just buzzing and somethings are in error.

He didnt even look pale and ashen in the death photo.

imo

didn't the EMT people say ANS was cool to the touch but they did CPR on her.

and he very much looked pale to me and the death photo.

[kenobicat]

I just don't get all the grief stricken hype over him. Almost like worhip as if he was the son of God. I don't care how 'talented' someone is, it does not merit the adoration and passion that people today give celebrities, whether they are media stars or sports stars. People have lost their sense of what should be important.

[Shameonme]

same here. wonder what she is doing these days. anyone know?

Judge Crier is missed by many of us. She was on at 3:00 pm every weekday at my house. With that I bid you a farewell and thanks for your great posts.

[*Serenity*]

Why? I thought the emergency room dr that called it has to sign it. am i wrong?

not sure.... watching CNN
sounds like that is the delay .. CNN was interviewing Dr Perper so he ask him the same question... I'm confused also...

Guess someone/doctor from cororners office needs to sign that death cert...??? Sounds like confusion all over the place right now...

[Lyvia]

Share a bed, what a loving thing to do. I take it at face value, and don't go to the gutter with it.
I don't go to the gutter. I go to reality...

<snip>Just think about how many commercials there are with a parent or parents in bed, and for whatever reason, (a child gets scared) and they go and get comforted in the bed.
...and you go to TV commercials.


(also, key word: parents.)
:unsure: defend and normalize that practice....lol
In interviews, Jackson did just that. What's not to understand?

Would someone who loves children tell children everywhere that it's fine and normal to get into adults' beds? Or would one tell children that if an adult asks you into their bed, go get your parents?

Would someone who loved kids say he'd let his kids into the bed of an adult accused of child molestation, even if he knew the person?

[legalmania]

didn't the EMT people say ANS was cool to the touch but they did CPR on her.

and he very much looked pale to me and the death photo.

I thought they said she had a fever?

[kellabeck]

Share a bed, what a loving thing to do. I take it at face value, and don't go to the gutter with it.

Just think about how many commercials there are with a parent or parents in bed, and for whatever reason, (a child gets scared) and they go and get comforted in the bed.

:unsure: defend and normalize that practice....lol

To compare a PARENT sharing a bed with his/her frightened child is hardly analogous to a grown man, basically a stranger, albeit a famous and rich one, whose habit is to bed a series of prepubescent boys who all coincidentally look alike is absurd.

And let's remember, that assuming the ludicrous notion that this bedding of prepubescents was innocent rather than a sexual compulsion, then wouldn't having to pay out in excess of $20 million dollars to settle a suit and avoid criminal charges be a wake up call?

The fact that he did not stop, rather was compulsive about sleeping with little boys, is evidence of his preferred stimulation. JMO

[magnolia]

Share a bed, what a loving thing to do. I take it at face value, and don't go to the gutter with it.

Just think about how many commercials there are with a parent or parents in bed, and for whatever reason, (a child gets scared) and they go and get comforted in the bed.

:unsure: defend and normalize that practice....lol

Bolding is mine.....................PARENTS yes! Michael Jackson was not a parent or relative to these young boys.

[RootBeer]

Deepak Chopra is talking about MJ on CNN.

[FallenAngel♥]

Did anyone see on FOX where daddy Joe was giving thumbs up and smiling? Seriously what is wrong with this man? :cursing:

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//090626/ids_photos_en/r1386808908.jpg/

[lune3]

I think that information is just wrong. Imo the EMTs wouldn't have tried to keep working on him if he was cold to the touch nor would the hospital staff.

I think the media is just buzzing and somethings are in error.

He didnt even look pale and ashen in the death photo.

imo

I think you are right, I think it must have been faulty reporting. Doesn't make sense otherwise.

I'm also wondering whether the rumour that the doc went missing was an exaggeration. He did go to the hospital didn't he? He may have not gone home afterwards, may have been shaken up and went elsewhere, and was simply not reachable for a couple of hours.

Who knows?

[*Serenity*]

Did anyone see on FOX where daddy Joe was giving thumbs up and smiling? Seriously what is wrong with this man? :cursing:

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//090626/ids_photos_en/r1386808908.jpg/

His own father?

Was he directing this to the audience for being there for support or about his son's death?

strange...

[kellabeck]

IMO That man doesn't owe anyone anything. He was sold by his mother to MJ, and his father only cared about the money. I believe he was molested. There is NO innocent excuse or good reason why he should have known and been able to describe MJ's spotted penis. NONE.

I would have LOVED for him to have taken the stand in the most recent trial. I believe it would have been very healing for him. MJ still wouldn't have been convicted....but atleast he would have faced his abuser and told him to his face that he knows and remembers what he had done. all in my opinion.

I totally agree.

[FallenAngel♥]

I thought they said she had a fever?

she did the day before she died. but remember she was feeling better and ate lobster and all that stuff. then the next morning she died.

[bkwits]

Hey darlin..:seeya: it's a great pleasure to see you..and you are correct..NG was not fired..she just moved on up the ladder..some of the old CTV th's will not be so lucky..

I can't watch the Doctor stuff till later tonight..and I predict there will be bombshells tonight and even more as time goes on..

and how many actually think MJ's children have even a speck of MJ blood/DNA/genes in them..not I.

IMO, it is possible the youngest one that MJ called Blanket might be MJ's bio child.

[legalmania]

In doing some reading, I have come accross some disurbing news about yet more lawsuits that Michael was facing..and yepper..it was between none other than his own family..I heard this on a Talks Show..btu just found something in writing about it..Geesh..

Jacko Accused of Singing Conspiracy

http://www.tmz.com/tag/JanetJackson/

Michael Jackson turned on his own flesh and blood by torpedoing a family reunion concert, according to a lawsuit that was just filed.

AllGood Entertainment just filed a Federal lawsuit, claiming Jackson reneged on his promise to perform with his brothers and sister Janet before performing any other concerts on his own.

After allegedly agreeing to the deal with AllGood -- the company that was producing the family concert -- Jackson inked a separate deal to perform a series of concerts in London.

According to the suit, Jackson and his manager, Frank Dileo, "secretly teamed up with AEG [the London producer]" knowing full well that Jackson committed to doing the family concert first.

AllGood claims its deal with Jacko prohibited him from signing any other contracts until 3 months after he performed the family concert.

Jackson has claimed he never signed the deal with AllGood -- his manager did. AllGood says the manager speaks for Jackson.

AllGood is suing for $20 million -- minimum. The company is also asking the judge to derail the London concerts, scheduled to kick off next month.

I also did hear..that MJ has received a huge sum of money in advance of his "Fairwell Tour" in Europe...wonder if they will sue too??

LMS:blushing:

Well they can't sue now all lawsuits are void as of his death. We're going to hear so many stories over the next few months, people are trying squeeze their last 15 minutes out of Michael.

[FallenAngel♥]

His own father?

Was he directing this to the audience for being there for support or about his son's death?

strange...

Beyond strange IMO...

and yes that's what the picture said.

FOX was like ummm what's that about :scared:

[kellabeck]

IMO, it is possible the youngest one that MJ called Blanket might be MJ's bio child.

Based on what? None of them looked like him. I believe all were purchased, I am very sad to say.

[VC2]

A wonderful Tribute to his friend michael jackson by Deepak Chopra:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/a-tribute-to-my-friend-mi_b_221268.html

He is on cnn right now and is being so honest and so caring.

That person, whom I considered (at the risk of ridicule) very pure, still survived -- he was reading the poems of Rabindranath Tagore when we talked the last time, two weeks ago. Michael exemplified the paradox of many famous performers, being essentially shy, an introvert who would come to my house and spend most of the evening sitting by himself in a corner with his small children. I never saw less than a loving father when they were together (and wonder now, as anyone close to him would, what will happen to them in the aftermath).

[RootBeer]

Deepak Chopra is talking about MJ on CNN.

Deepak is still on talking to Wolfe and he says he as been a close friend to MJ for 20 years. He also said his kids stayed the night at MJ's all the time and even traveled with him.

[Cornblossom]

The doctor that pronounced death would sign off on the death certificate, I would think. They will probably have the head ME come in and review the autopsy findings before he signs off on it. He may not do that now because it is not complete until tox tests come back in.

imohttp://books.google.com/books?id=ftJVYajB9Z4C&pg=PA75&lpg=PA75&dq=who+signs+a+death+certificate%3F&source=bl&ots=PzFnAKylEx&sig=10JtmQMHBCxfwsGL_HJyzyv7gCg&hl=en&ei=VDZFSqeYCY7-NerhhJoB&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6 Ideally the physician who knows the most about the patients cause of death......

[GentleBreeze]

i always wished and still wish jordy would speak out. when the case was settled he was too young to judge right from wrong and acted like his parents wanted him to act.

btw, jordy chandler got a restraining order against his father some years ago. he claimed his father wanted to kill him.

Why in the world would his father want to do that? Was his father afraid that he would speak out about the real facts in the MJ case?:confused:

imo

[Tracian]

Bolding is mine.....................PARENTS yes! Michael Jackson was not a parent or relative to these young boys.


So I have a neighbor, about 45 years old, not married, nice guy.

He has a nice pool, with a slide, and a BBQ area with a soda fountain, he also has a home theater, and loves to spoil the kids in the neighborhood with ice cream, and popcorn movie nights.

The kids just love the guy, he has water fights with them, takes one or two shopping on occasion, buying them things that some of their parents cannot afford on a whim, and would have to save up for their birthdays or Christmas.

Sure, on occasion, he will invite one or two over to spend the night, they normally do so to have video game tournaments.

Oh, did I mention that he likes them all to sleep in the Master bedroom with him?

Nothing strange about it, just he is so in tune with the youth, he thinks it is a loving thing to do...

Now, if this guy lived in your neighborhood, honestly how many would think this is normal behavior and you would allow your children to hang out there? (obviously, this was just a made up story to make a point)

[legalmania]

Based on what? None of them looked like him. I believe all were purchased, I am very sad to say.

I don't think purchased is the proper term here, the 14th amendment stopped the purchasing of humans.

[GentleBreeze]

http://books.google.com/books?id=ftJVYajB9Z4C&pg=PA75&lpg=PA75&dq=who+signs+a+death+certificate%3F&source=bl&ots=PzFnAKylEx&sig=10JtmQMHBCxfwsGL_HJyzyv7gCg&hl=en&ei=VDZFSqeYCY7-NerhhJoB&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6 Ideally the physician who knows the most about the patients cause of death......

Thank you. I read further and it says if the death is not from natural causes or is suspicious then it is signed off by the coroner.

imo

[Tracian]

Why in the world would his father want to do that? Was his father afraid that he would speak out about the real facts in the MJ case?:confused:

imo


Maybe the real fact is that the father was willing to take a pay off for his son's abuse rather than press charges.