6/26 to 6/27 --#3

[Avalon]

Would anybody like coffee? I'll be right back.

LOL!

When Jermaine (?) did the announcement, I thought he specifically mentioned "Dr. Murray"....I got the impression it was a long-time personal physician whom they trusted. Or at least it sounded that way to me....could have been just family spin.

[Details]

Yes, it is easy to refuse an addict because there are limits to the amount of narcotics doctors can prescribe without drawing the attention of the DEA. Doctors do it every day (refuse drug-seeking addicts).But - if you're the doctor of a celebrity paying you big bucks to treat them special - saying "No" to any request likely means you will be out of a job.

[n/t]

Obviously something's wrong with this whole picture. If the doctor is indeed a cardiologist, what was he treating MJ for? Why was MJ injected with demerol? Did the doctor know what other drugs MJ was taking? And if MJ had a heart condition and was in cardiac arrest, then his own doctor could've signed off on the death and avoided the autopsy. Something must have gotten the attention of LE right away, MJ being a celebrity notwithstanding. MOO

You're exactly correct that his own doctor could've signed off on the death. The coroner spokesperson mentioned that if a doctor was present, he could've signed off which had me very confused. Did anyone else hear him say that? However, he also mentioned that he was pronounced dead in ER so that could be the reason his personal doctor didn't/couldn't do so.

[annalyzer]

2 hour special 20/20 about MJ on now!

[RootBeer]

Who is watching? I am

[legalmania]

Sorry.. I meant Lidocaine hydrochloride... According to a website I just looked up, they use it when the heart rhythm isn't right. I doubt it would be used for a full arrest like they are saying MJ had.

Here's the site I looked at:
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100001501.html

It's a good thing you told me I was thinking about using them if I felt like I was going to have a heart attack. I'm sure the EMTs would have thought I was a nut case laying there with patches on my chest.

[Avalon]

But - if you're the doctor of a celebrity paying you big bucks to treat them special - saying "No" to any request likely means you will be out of a job.

Yes...I had been responding to the poster who was saying it's not easy for doctors to refuse addicts' demands, relative to addicts in general.

[4Life]

Who is watching? I am

I am going back and fourth between LKL and "Farrah's Story" on NBC

[who_is_it]

You're exactly correct that his own doctor could've signed off on the death. The coroner spokesperson mentioned that if a doctor was present, he could've signed off which had me very confused. Did anyone else hear him say that? However, he also mentioned that he was pronounced dead in ER so that could be the reason his personal doctor didn't/couldn't do so.

i posted on this before.

it's understable that he wanted the death confirmed by other people. firstly there would have been the responsibility question (was he really dead already and no way to help?) secondly he was alone with michael. the accusations start... - can you imagine how many more accusations he would have to face if he himself had pronounced his death?

[who_is_it]

I have to agree. They are paid employees and if they want to keep their job that can't very well refuse the addict what s/he wants. They can advise but that's about it. If what they did was illegal, they should be held accountable tho.

LMP said on her myspace page that she tried to save him from himself. I recently lost someone very close to me that I tried to "save" too...for 17 years, to no avail. It's a losing battle. The addict has to take personal responsibility and that rarely happens.

MO

very rarely. it's part of their disease that they can't.

[Anakerie]

It's a good thing you told me I was thinking about using them if I felt like I was going to have a heart attack. I'm sure the EMTs would have thought I was a nut case laying there with patches on my chest.
lol, I'm glad I looked it up for you! :biggrin:

[Avalon]

The lawyer was there when the kids were told. He didn't mention the doctor being there, IIRC...

LKL is so lame....this friend of MJ said he "knew of" the doctor....LKL didn't ask any follow-up questions about it.....he's SO out-of-it!!!

[who_is_it]

But - if you're the doctor of a celebrity paying you big bucks to treat them special - saying "No" to any request likely means you will be out of a job.

yes, i think so, too.

[emdragon]

Who is watching? I am

I am
to the annoyance of my husband who keeps asking "I love ya honey but isn't there something else on"? me to him "go back to guild wars on your computer" ;)

Someone let me know if the 20/20 is worth watching or just a rehash of last night and today.

[Citygirl]

i posted on this before.

it's understable that he wanted the death confirmed by other people. firstly there would have been the responsibility question (was he really dead already and no way to help?) secondly he was alone with michael. the accusations start... - can you imagine how many more accusations he would have to face if he himself had pronounced his death?


Eggsactly..

[CinderL.]

yes, i think so, too.

I am just jumping in here. TMZ has reported that the Dr. was hired by the production company 11 days ago. The Dr. left his practice to work with Michael. I bet he now wishes he never got that call. :scared:

edited to add....I don't know if this has already been posted, because I can't go back to read everything, sorry if it has.

[Avalon]

The coroner's spokesman said if MJ was under the care of a doctor, that doctor could've signed off on the death certificate. So if this supposedly was his "personal physician", MJ was under his care, right?

[CinderL.]

The coroner's spokesman said if MJ was under the care of a doctor, that doctor could've signed off on the death certificate. So if this supposedly was his "personal physician", MJ was under his care, right?

Only his doc for 11 days.

[Avalon]

Liza (on LKL) looks pretty good these days.

Hey, does anyone think MJ had his nose widened a bit? He looked really good at that London concert announcement. Nose didn't look quite as pinched. Lips definitely had some enhancement. Who is this guy on LKL, are we supposed to know him or he is just a friend of MJ?

[Citygirl]

Only his doc for 11 days.


Oh man..you know that doctor is sayin..boink..I should have had a V8..

[CinderL.]

Oh man..you know that doctor is sayin..boink..I should have had a V8..


:laugh: Exactly. He thought it was the chance of a lifetime. :scared:

[who_is_it]

I am just jumping in here. TMZ has reported that the Dr. was hired by the production company 11 days ago. The Dr. left his practice to work with Michael. I bet he now wishes he never got that call. :scared:

edited to add....I don't know if this has already been posted, because I can't go back to read everything, sorry if it has.

I've read somewhere before he was hired by the production company. Yep, it's like you said. He probably wishes this never happened.

I didn't know that he was working for him only for 11 days.

Poor guy. I also don't wonder that he tried to leave the hospital unseen. He's probably not at all used to deal with the media attention if this was a new job.

[doctor_J]

since his trail i wished to see him once in person. i was hoping so much his comeback would succeed and heal the wounds caused by the media.

i remained sceptical if the concerts would ever take place. it was well known how much he suffered from stage fear. if he didn't make it this would have been end -- as an entertainer and emotionally, i thought. there were always haters and media outlets in alert to release more bad, hurting news.

now he finally took up his creative work again and experienced by the tickets sales that he's still loved by many people -- something he didn't feel during the trial and all the time after.

i don't continue with the conclusion but some of you maybe feel what i mean.

sad that he can't know anymore how many people demanded his music today.

:rose::rose:

Just wanted you to know there are many who feel as you do. Some of us just don't get involved with this thread because of those who feel it is perfectly OK, in fact, Christian, to trash a man who has just suddenly died, before he can even be buried.

You'd think, if people had no compassion for the family and millions of fans who are in mourning, that they would at least have enough respect for each American's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and acknowledge that Michael had that right restored by a jury of his peers, and at least leave their accusations off for a couple of days.

However, a few feel it is not only appropriate to insist, at this tragic time, that the Justice System failed in Michael's case, and that he had to be guilty of perverted dealings with young boys, because, after all, he was different, even certifiably "weird", but they also feel it is absolutely essential to refute every post which expresses love for Michael, by continuous repetition of their accusations. It's like reading someone on auto-pilot. How many times does one person have to say that Michael was a child molester? Apparently, dozens are not enough. I guess that achieves the aim of making it appear that "everyone" or "the majority" feel that way. There will be plenty of time for those allegations to be re-tried on these boards after the man is decently buried..

I had no stomach for it yesterday, when I was near tears all day, and none today. I believe these horrible unjust, unproven, extortionistic accusations caused Michael's death. Regardless of what the autopsy shows, the pain of accusations of which he could not conceive, much less commit, finally killed him. I too, hoped to see him come back, better than ever.

There's plenty to discuss about Michael Jackson and his untimely death. Something could be said of his incredible philanthropic efforts towards children's needs, both in individual cases and in massive worldwide causes.

Michael had unprecedented success and unparalleled tragedy. He was a true creative and musical genius, one of the few of my time.'

Godspeed Michael, the Gloved One, The King of Pop. You rocked my world!

[magnolia]

Liza (on LKL) looks pretty good these days.

Hey, does anyone think MJ had his nose widened a bit? He looked really good at that London concert announcement. Nose didn't look quite as pinched. Lips definitely had some enhancement. Who is this guy on LKL, are we supposed to know him or he is just a friend of MJ?
The guy is Miko Brandon, Marlon's son and Michael's friend.

[who_is_it]

The guy is Miko Brandon, Marlo's son and Michael's friend.

Michael inherited an island by Marlon Brando. Miko Brando was sometimes on the ranch.

[Mayasmimi]

Liza (on LKL) looks pretty good these days.

Hey, does anyone think MJ had his nose widened a bit? He looked really good at that London concert announcement. Nose didn't look quite as pinched. Lips definitely had some enhancement. Who is this guy on LKL, are we supposed to know him or he is just a friend of MJ?


I'm guessing he is Marlon Brando's sun. Liza does look good.

[RootBeer]

Liza (on LKL) looks pretty good these days.

Hey, does anyone think MJ had his nose widened a bit? He looked really good at that London concert announcement. Nose didn't look quite as pinched. Lips definitely had some enhancement. Who is this guy on LKL, are we supposed to know him or he is just a friend of MJ?

Liza does look great, and that voice, I just love it.

[emdragon]

Just wanted you to know there are many who feel as you do. Some of us just don't get involved with this thread because of those who feel it is perfectly OK, in fact, Christian, to trash a man who has just suddenly died, before he can even be buried.

You'd think, if people had no compassion for the family and millions of fans who are in mourning, that they would at least have enough respect for each American's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and acknowledge that Michael had that right restored by a jury of his peers, and at least leave their accusations off for a couple of days.

However, a few feel it is not only appropriate to insist, at this tragic time, that the Justice System failed in Michael's case, and that he had to be guilty of perverted dealings with young boys, because, after all, he was different, even certifiably "weird", but they also feel it is absolutely essential to refute every post which expresses love for Michael, by continuous repetition of their accusations. It's like reading someone on auto-pilot. How many times does one person have to say that Michael was a child molester? Apparently, dozens are not enough. I guess that achieves the aim of making it appear that "everyone" or "the majority" feel that way. There will be plenty of time for those allegations to be re-tried on these boards after the man is decently buried..

I had no stomach for it yesterday, when I was near tears all day, and none today. I believe these horrible unjust, unproven, extortionistic accusations caused Michael's death. Regardless of what the autopsy shows, the pain of accusations of which he could not conceive, much less commit, finally killed him. I too, hoped to see him come back, better than ever.

There's plenty to discuss about Michael Jackson and his untimely death. Something could be said of his incredible philanthropic efforts towards children's needs, both in individual cases and in massive worldwide causes.

Michael had unprecedented success and unparalleled tragedy. He was a true creative and musical genius, one of the few of my time.'

Godspeed Michael, the Gloved One, The King of Pop. You rocked my world!

I was always taught "never speak ill of the dead"

I wasn't a real fan-liked some of what he has done but wouldn't pay to go see him.
I know what I thought until yesterday and next week I may think it again but today I have to think about his kids,family and friends as well as what could have been, and how he got to the point he was....

[sunstar]

Pic of the Dr.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=7939453&page=1

I'm confused if the doctor actually lives in California or Texas? Another article I read last night said he was from Las Vegas. :confused:


eta ~ I just saw another post that said the production company hired him. That answers a lot of questions especially why he couldn't sign off the death certificate.

[4Life]

I was always taught "never speak ill of the dead"



I was taught the same thing

[who_is_it]

Google thought Michael Jackson traffic was attack

"Google has confirmed that the surge of Michael Jackson-related searches on Google News Thursday was first interpreted as an attack on its service."

Look at the chart:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10274137-2.html

[LILMANMAX]

Just wanted you to know there are many who feel as you do. Some of us just don't get involved with this thread because of those who feel it is perfectly OK, in fact, Christian, to trash a man who has just suddenly died, before he can even be buried.

You'd think, if people had no compassion for the family and millions of fans who are in mourning, that they would at least have enough respect for each American's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and acknowledge that Michael had that right restored by a jury of his peers, and at least leave their accusations off for a couple of days.

However, a few feel it is not only appropriate to insist, at this tragic time, that the Justice System failed in Michael's case, and that he had to be guilty of perverted dealings with young boys, because, after all, he was different, even certifiably "weird", but they also feel it is absolutely essential to refute every post which expresses love for Michael, by continuous repetition of their accusations. It's like reading someone on auto-pilot. How many times does one person have to say that Michael was a child molester? Apparently, dozens are not enough. I guess that achieves the aim of making it appear that "everyone" or "the majority" feel that way. There will be plenty of time for those allegations to be re-tried on these boards after the man is decently buried..

I had no stomach for it yesterday, when I was near tears all day, and none today. I believe these horrible unjust, unproven, extortionistic accusations caused Michael's death. Regardless of what the autopsy shows, the pain of accusations of which he could not conceive, much less commit, finally killed him. I too, hoped to see him come back, better than ever.

There's plenty to discuss about Michael Jackson and his untimely death. Something could be said of his incredible philanthropic efforts towards children's needs, both in individual cases and in massive worldwide causes.

Michael had unprecedented success and unparalleled tragedy. He was a true creative and musical genius, one of the few of my time.'

Godspeed Michael, the Gloved One, The King of Pop. You rocked my world!


Thank you DJ for so eloquently speaking my sentiments. I am in total agreement with you.
There will never be another Michael.

[CinderL.]

I'm confused if the doctor actually lives in California or Texas? Another article I read last night said he was from Las Vegas. :confused:


eta ~ I just saw another post that said the production company hired him. That answers a lot of questions especially why he couldn't sign off the death certificate.


From what I heard, he has a practice, (which he just quit 11 days ago) in Tx. but he is also licensed to practice in NV.

Yes the production company hired him. I bet he just wishes he stayed with his practice. If he injected him with Demoral, he could be in trouble. IMO

[Mayasmimi]

I am very impressed with Deepak Chopra. Miko tried to say Michael didn't use drugs more than the average person. Mr. Chopra nipped that in the bud.

[Lyvia]

I was taught the same thing

There is a separate thread for only positive comments. The moderator already posted that we can discuss both positive and negative. The lectures trying to shut down negative discussions are not supposed to be taking place.

Those who can't handle anything but tributes and accolades have a whole thread just for that.

[emdragon]

OK I'm agreeing with Usher.....I am afraid now.

Deepak was very matter of fact and brutally honest. How do we explain the fact that people like him and other rational, intelligent people who actually know MJ didn't see the "molester" could they truly be right and the world was unjust to him?

[CinderL.]

There is a separate thread for only positive comments. The moderator already posted that we can discuss both positive and negative. The lectures trying to shut down negative discussions are not supposed to be taking place.

Those who can't handle anything but tributes and accolades have a whole thread just for that.

I agree. I am not ripping on MJ. I think he was a great musician, but good grief, he had issues. Not all positive.

[CinderL.]

Michael knew him from Vegas.

imo


Yes, I think I did hear that the Dr. saw him when MJ was in Vegas.

[emdragon]

I agree. I am not ripping on MJ. I think he was a great musician, but good grief, he had issues. Not all positive.

I don't think any of the fans here getting upset are saying he didn't have issues or that nothing negative should be talked about. I just think they get tired of the more hateful "he's a molester, i won't shed a tear" that kind of stuff.

I'm not a fan and even I have no use for those type of posts-just makes me wonder why they bother posting it if they don't care.

Myself I want to talk about the good and the bad, the hows and whys.

[Details]

...However, a few feel it is not only appropriate to insist, at this tragic time, that the Justice System failed in Michael's case, and that he had to be guilty of perverted dealings with young boys, because, after all, he was different, even certifiably "weird", but they also feel it is absolutely essential to refute every post which expresses love for Michael, by continuous repetition of their accusations. ...First - not one post has suggested he "had" to be a pedophile because he was different or weird. The reasons people think he is a pedophile has to do with their evaluation of the evidence and facts in his criminal cases and prior settlements - not because he was weird (me - I prefer weird - much better than normal). Please don't put words in other's mouths, no matter what your grief.

Second - speaking for myself - I see no need to refute a post expressing love or regret about MJ passing - but some have been using this time to not express their love of MJ, but their scorn and derision towards all those who accused him of being a pedophile, or believed the accusations. Death does not mean one side gets to get all their jabs in while calling anyone who dares give a contrary opinion disrespectful.

[Mayasmimi]

OK I'm agreeing with Usher.....I am afraid now.

Deepak was very matter of fact and brutally honest. How do we explain the fact that people like him and other rational, intelligent people who actually know MJ didn't see the "molester" could they truly be right and the world was unjust to him?

I think maybe so. Did you read Lisa Marie Presley's blog? To paraphase, Michael was a magnet for things and people that weren't good for/to him. She said she had to leave and distance herself, as trying to make him better was killing her, and she had herself and her children to take care of. She also said their marriage was not a sham.

[Details]

I am just jumping in here. TMZ has reported that the Dr. was hired by the production company 11 days ago. The Dr. left his practice to work with Michael. I bet he now wishes he never got that call. :scared:

edited to add....I don't know if this has already been posted, because I can't go back to read everything, sorry if it has.Hired by the production company....


I wonder if the job he was given was to make Michael able to do the performances, whatever means necessary - and that would be what lead to the overdose? Just a theory. The fact his boss wasn't Michael sets up a potential conflict of interests.

[Lyvia]

I think maybe so. Did you read Lisa Marie Presley's blog? To paraphase, Michael was a magnet for things and people that weren't good for/to him. She said she had to leave and distance herself, as trying to make him better was killing her, and she had herself and her children to take care of. She also said their marriage was not a sham.

She also said that the timing of the relationship was "suspect" on the part of MJ. And that he could use his "force" for very, very bad things.

She was hinting at something dark, imo.

[VC2]

The coroner's spokesman said if MJ was under the care of a doctor, that doctor could've signed off on the death certificate. So if this supposedly was his "personal physician", MJ was under his care, right?

actually he couldnt have, he was not licensed in California as far as i know.

IMO

[Avalon]

I haven't seen much bashing here....just personal opinions. Geez, if you wanted to see bashing, you should've seen the Anna Nicole board when that was going on....

[4Life]

There is a separate thread for only positive comments. The moderator already posted that we can discuss both positive and negative. The lectures trying to shut down negative discussions are not supposed to be taking place.

Those who can't handle anything but tributes and accolades have a whole thread just for that.

I know where it is, thank you very much

All I said was that I was raised not to speak ill of the dead

Did I tell you or any others to stop with the negative comments? Nope, that is up to you what you want to do, but I will act the way I was raised, to show respect

[CinderL.]

I don't think any of the fans here getting upset are saying he didn't have issues or that nothing negative should be talked about. I just think they get tired of the more hateful "he's a molester, i won't shed a tear" that kind of stuff.

I'm not a fan and even I have no use for those type of posts-just makes me wonder why they bother posting it if they don't care.

Myself I want to talk about the good and the bad, the hows and whys.

Well, that sums up how I feel. I don't like the hateful posts.

[Lyvia]

I know where it is, thank you very much
<snip>

You're very welcome!

[emdragon]

I think maybe so. Did you read Lisa Marie Presley's blog? To paraphase, Michael was a magnet for things and people that weren't good for/to him. She said she had to leave and distance herself, as trying to make him better was killing her, and she had herself and her children to take care of. She also said their marriage was not a sham.

Do you have the link to her myspace?

[Mayasmimi]

She also said that the timing of the relationship was "suspect" on the part of MJ. And that he could use his "force" for very, very bad things.

She was hinting at something dark, imo.

I think she was, as well. I now do not doubt that she loved him.

[Avalon]

As for Doc's giving meds to famous/celebrity types..they are only asking for questions and splanations..It is known..even to us lowly nurses..we do not give any narcotic to any patient without doing "VITAL SIGNS".. followed by rechecking of those Vital signs 15-30 minutes after medicating....STANDARD!!, otherwise we would be negligent..in our duties..I wonder just how many times this "CARDIOLOGIST" actually checked Michael's blood pressure or heart rate???..likely never..much less anything else...Man..This Dr really is a fruitcake if he claims ignorance...!!

Thank you. And the first bad sign was that he was doing CPR on the bed. I think at this point even I, a complete medical layperson, knows that CPR should be done on a hard surface. As I recall, they put ANS on the floor of her hotel room when they started CPR on her.

[Lyvia]

I think she was, as well. I now do not doubt that she loved him.

Me, either. That's some raw emotion there. I hope she doesn't blame herself too much.

[emdragon]

I haven't seen much bashing here....just personal opinions. Geez, if you wanted to see bashing, you should've seen the Anna Nicole board when that was going on....

I did and it was ugly- would like to NOT see it happen here.

[CinderL.]

Hired by the production company....


I wonder if the job he was given was to make Michael able to do the performances, whatever means necessary - and that would be what lead to the overdose? Just a theory. The fact his boss wasn't Michael sets up a potential conflict of interests.

I agree with you. They wanted him to practice and get ready for the shows. I read that MJ had only been to two practices.

[Mayasmimi]

Do you have the link to her myspace?

Unfortunately, no. I read excerpts on TMZ. Read the entire post at either X17 or Perez. Sorry cannot remember.

[CinderL.]

I haven't seen much bashing here....just personal opinions. Geez, if you wanted to see bashing, you should've seen the Anna Nicole board when that was going on....

I was there. :scared::biggrin:

[4Life]

Do you have the link to her myspace?

http://blogs.myspace.com/lisamariepresley

[bkwits]

OK I'm agreeing with Usher.....I am afraid now.

Deepak was very matter of fact and brutally honest. How do we explain the fact that people like him and other rational, intelligent people who actually know MJ didn't see the "molester" could they truly be right and the world was unjust to him?

For many years, my husband and I knew and did business with a very, nice, honest man. On of the nicest guys we knew and very reputable, or so we thought. He was truly honest in business dealings, but he was arrested, and put in prison as a sex offender. He molested a 14 year old son of his friend. Come to find out this was not the first time, he had been in trouble for this kind of thing. His business partner came around asking people to send him cards in prison because he was so depressed...well, duh.

So you don't always what others are doing.


IMO

[Mayasmimi]

Me, either. That's some raw emotion there. I hope she doesn't blame herself too much.

Maybe I read between the lines. Does seem to me that she is heartbroken. I assume that she knows she couldn't help, but wonders what else she could have done.

[emdragon]

http://blogs.myspace.com/lisamariepresley

Thank you.

You too Mayasmimi

[4Life]

Unfortunately, no. I read excerpts on TMZ. Read the entire post at either X17 or Perez. Sorry cannot remember.

Entire post here at number 25



http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13228512#post13228512

[Avalon]

Wow, Michael looked like a wisp in the sheet on the way to the coroner. I mean, it actually looked like nothing was under the sheet. But we won't know his weight until the autopsy report, I guess.

OK, I'm watching Greta now.

[emdragon]

For many years, my husband and I knew and did business with a very, nice, honest man. On of the nicest guys we knew and very reputable, or so we thought. He was truly honest in business dealings, but he was arrested, and put in prison as a sex offender. He molested a 14 year old son of his friend. Come to find out this was not the first time, he had been in trouble for this kind of thing. His business partner came around asking people to send him cards in prison because he was so depressed...well, duh.

So you don't always what others are doing.


IMO

True but we are talking about the people closest to him. I just wonder how people trained and knowledgeable in the signs would not see SOMETHING.
People who have no need to ride his coattails for fame or fortune.

[sunstar]

From what I heard, he has a practice, (which he just quit 11 days ago) in Tx. but he is also licensed to practice in NV.

Yes the production company hired him. I bet he just wishes he stayed with his practice. If he injected him with Demoral, he could be in trouble. IMO

I agree, and especially if he wasn't really MJ's treating physician or knew his complete medical history or other drugs he may have been taking. I'm curious why AEG felt MJ needed an on-duty cardiologist?


I'm watching Greta and she's talking about this right now. :smile:

[legalmania]

I did and it was ugly- would like to NOT see it happen here.

It was ugly, Michael had a rough childhood. Imagine a father who made you perform in strip clubs at the total age of 8. He was not allowed to say no. His brothers were afraid of their father also and didn't protect their little brother. I don't think Michael ever felt loved. I think his children were the first time he felt loved unconditionally.

[RootBeer]

Wow, Michael looked like a wisp in the sheet on the way to the coroner. I mean, it actually looked like nothing was under the sheet. But we won't know his weight until the autopsy report, I guess.

OK, I'm watching Greta now.

I will throw a number out there: 118 lbs

[sunstar]

Thank you. And the first bad sign was that he was doing CPR on the bed. I think at this point even I, a complete medical layperson, knows that CPR should be done on a hard surface. As I recall, they put ANS on the floor of her hotel room when they started CPR on her.

I remember that too with ANS. Ideally it is the best place as it is a flat hard surface. MOO

[CinderL.]

I agree, and especially if he wasn't really MJ's treating physician or knew his complete medical history or other drugs he may have been taking. I'm curious why AEG felt MJ needed an on-duty cardiologist?


I'm watching Greta and she's talking about this right now. :smile:

I think they just wanted a doctor with him to get him ready to preform. They are losing a ton of money now. They were only insured for a few shows, not the 50. Yikes. I don't think he would have ever made it to doing the 50 shows, with or without medications. He was just too fragile.

[Mayasmimi]

True but we are talking about the people closest to him. I just wonder how people trained and knowledgeable in the signs would not see SOMETHING.
People who have no need to ride his coattails for fame or fortune.

Dr. Deepak Chopra seems very credible. If you haven't already, please read this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/a-tribute-to-my-friend-mi_b_221268.html

Seems Michael had some very good people in his life.

[CinderL.]

I know that I am way behind. I made it to page 17 before I posted.

I have a burning question. When the ME said that there was no sign of outward drama to the deceased, does that include needle marks administrated by a DR.?

TIA if any one knows.

Or trauma caused by the CPR. ??

[Avalon]

TMZ is all over this doctor. I tend to trust them -- they were the ones reporting MJ was already dead when paramedics got to the house. An hour later, CNN was still reporting he was in a coma.

[Mayasmimi]

Anderson Cooper is good tonight. Not normally a fan. Need to flip between his show and Greta's.

[Mayasmimi]

Anderson Cooper is good tonight. Not normally a fan. Need to flip between his show and Greta's.


Oh Baden. Nevermind.

[CinderL.]

TMZ is all over this doctor. I tend to trust them -- they were the ones reporting MJ was already dead when paramedics got to the house. An hour later, CNN was still reporting he was in a coma.

TMZ is on the money here. I was on another forum reporting that he had died, per TMZ, and Fox and CNN weren't calling it. I kept saying, wait, he is in a coma, no he is dead, it was nuts. They have gotten this one right the whole time.

[emdragon]

Wow. Lisa Marie's blog is truly heartbreaking.

The very last thing i wanted to see happen yesterday was for Michael to be compared to Elvis but all day today it became clear that the parallels can not be ignored.

Lisa leaving Michael to save herself was just what Priscella did and she is right the sights are all the same.

It doesn't take much more than reading the date Aug 16 1977 to bring me to tears but reading it written by Elvis's little girl broke me completely.
Just really realizing that this woman was connected to both these huge emotional and public deaths makes me hurt for her...Wasn't her fathers death and the circus that followed enough for one persons lifetime? She has to do it all again. She has to know how the kids are feeling, as like her they were in the house when their father died but knew nothing.

OK I haven't cried about Michael not that big a fan but I am reduced to sobs just remembering the day Elvis died.

I am so very sorry for Michael's true fans I've been where they are and it sux...

[Avalon]

Well, at least Greta asked Baden some good questions. Not like lame LKL with his scripted list of questions and then not listening to the answers.

Baden said cardiologist wouldn't really have a reason to be prescribing Demerol (but I think we already knew that).

[*Serenity*]

It was ugly, Michael had a rough childhood. Imagine a father who made you perform in strip clubs at the total age of 8. He was not allowed to say no. His brothers were afraid of their father also and didn't protect their little brother. I don't think Michael ever felt loved. I think his children were the first time he felt loved unconditionally.

Performing in the strip clubs at the age 8 and for a few years probably contributed to his detachment from women... maybe not completely but it appears he was not gay nor attached to women.

I can't imagine putting a child in a strip club at that age to perform.

[CinderL.]

Wow. Lisa Marie's blog is truly heartbreaking.

The very last thing i wanted to see happen yesterday was for Michael to be compared to Elvis but all day today it became clear that the parallels can not be ignored.

Lisa leaving Michael to save herself was just what Priscella did and she is right the sights are all the same.

It doesn't take much more than reading the date Aug 16 1977 to bring me to tears but reading it written by Elvis's little girl broke me completely.
Just really realizing that this woman was connected to both these huge emotional and public deaths makes me hurt for her...Wasn't her fathers death and the circus that followed enough for one persons lifetime? She has to do it all again. She has to know how the kids are feeling, as like her they were in the house when their father died but knew nothing.

OK I haven't cried about Michael not that big a fan but I am reduced to sobs just remembering the day Elvis died.

I am so very sorry for Michael's true fans I've been where they are and it sux...

Ditto. What a sad life for all involved. Lisa, Priscilla, Elvis, and MJ. And now MJ's children. Very sad.

[sunstar]

I think they just wanted a doctor with him to get him ready to preform. They are losing a ton of money now. They were only insured for a few shows, not the 50. Yikes. I don't think he would have ever made it to doing the 50 shows, with or without medications. He was just too fragile.

Oh I think I'm understanding it now. The doctor was supposed to be like sort of a safety net for the sponsor, to see that MJ was ok and so forth. I wonder then who his regular physicians were? MOO

[CinderL.]

True but that Harvey Levin is bizarre.

Did anyone ever see the TV show? LOL! Harvey is like Professor Gossip and the others are like his students. :rolleyes:

imo

No, I have never watched his show. I think I remember him for OJ trial. Right?

[Mayasmimi]

TMZ is on the money here. I was on another forum reporting that he had died, per TMZ, and Fox and CNN weren't calling it. I kept saying, wait, he is in a coma, no he is dead, it was nuts. They have gotten this one right the whole time.

I was with ya. They are pretty credible....more so than many other sites.

[CinderL.]

Oh I think I'm understanding it now. The doctor was supposed to be like sort of a safety net for the sponsor, to see that MJ was ok and so forth. I wonder then who his regular physicians were? MOO

That is the way I am seeing it. They were Covering their A**. Unfortunately, it didn't work.

[sunstar]

Well, at least Greta asked Baden some good questions. Not like lame LKL with his scripted list of questions and then not listening to the answers.

Baden said cardiologist wouldn't really have a reason to be prescribing Demerol (but I think we already knew that).

I agree, she had good coverage both last night and now. From what Dr. Baden said, no wonder LE is interested in talking with the doctor. MOO

[CinderL.]

True but that Harvey Levin is bizarre.

Did anyone ever see the TV show? LOL! Harvey is like Professor Gossip and the others are like his students. :rolleyes:

ETA: I'm sure TMZ has had spies in the Jackson camp for years.

imo

The gal from TMZ that I have been hearing on tv, said they have been covering MJ for 30 yrs., so they have lots of contacts.

[sunstar]

That is the way I am seeing it. They were Covering their A**. Unfortunately, it didn't work.

No kidding! :sad:

[Mayasmimi]

No, I have never watched his show. I think I remember him for OJ trial. Right?

Oh. I don't watch the show. Just check the site once in a while.

[sunstar]

Oops, Greta! She just confused Corey Haim & Joey Fatone, both of whom she's interviewing about Michael. :laugh:

[CinderL.]

No kidding! :sad:

Right now the production company is out $480,000.00. That hurts. I don't think they will even come close to recovering much of the money. But, knowing MJ, I think they tried.

[sallemae]

She also said that the timing of the relationship was "suspect" on the part of MJ. And that he could use his "force" for very, very bad things.

She was hinting at something dark, imo.



Like tall dark and handsom.....:rolleyes:

[Lyvia]

Like tall dark and handsom.....:rolleyes:

I have to congratulate you on a great use of an icon. That one is 100% appropriate for your comment, lol.

"Suspect timing" isn't complimentary. Neither is the comment that when he used his force for bad, it was really, really bad.

There's something there, though she may never elaborate.

[sallemae]

IMO That man doesn't owe anyone anything. He was sold by his mother to MJ, and his father only cared about the money. I believe he was molested. There is NO innocent excuse or good reason why he should have known and been able to describe MJ's spotted penis. NONE.

I would have LOVED for him to have taken the stand in the most recent trial. I believe it would have been very healing for him. MJ still wouldn't have been convicted....but atleast he would have faced his abuser and told him to his face that he knows and remembers what he had done. all in my opinion.


There is NO innocent excuse or good reason why he should have known and been able to describe MJ's spotted penis. NONE.

.......Do you have any idea what a mens bathroom is like?????

[spiritwolf46]

I know some one that I used to call friend, until she got so whacked out on prescription meds that she has lost all contact with the normal world. IMO.

She and her DR. were investigated by the DEA and had a meeting w/ them.

I don't talk to her much anymore so do not know the outcome of the situation.

Ya know, unfortunately, these things happen WAY too often! The Drs. give the patient the meds to begin with. Then the patient needs more because their bodies become used to them and they start calling on a daily basis to get more of the same meds. The Drs, at times, give them what they want to keep peace in their own practice and it becomes a Domino effect!

I have seen it more than a few times. Not a good situation.

I pray that MJ put a guardian for those children! I feel so bad for them!

[sunstar]

When MJ was rehearsing for his upcoming concerts, i wonder if there will be video of it so that we can see it?

I think a little of it was shown last night on either Fox News or CNN. At least that's the way it appeared as the reporter was talking about his rehearsal the night before. :sad:

[Mayasmimi]

Right now the production company is out $480,000.00. That hurts. I don't think they will even come close to recovering much of the money. But, knowing MJ, I think they tried.


Production company, AEG? I read that he was advanced $10,000,000. Also read that the insurance policy was likely very expensive, with many preclusions (Lloyds of London). With refunding ticket prices for 50sold out shows plus their expenses......AEG is likely hurting,

[CinderL.]

When MJ was rehearsing for his upcoming concerts, i wonder if there will be video of it so that we can see it?

I think it was the Staples Center in LA. But, I think he only showed up two times.

[CinderL.]

Production company, AEG? I read that he was advanced $10,000,000. Also read that the insurance policy was likely very expensive, with many preclusions (Lloyds of London). With refunding ticket prices for 50sold out shows plus their expenses......AEG is likely hurting,

Yes, it could be way way more than the $480,000.00, that might just be for the tickets. I don't know. Probably a lot more. :confused:

[Lyvia]

I haven't seen CW post anything today.

You happen to have a link to that?

TIA

It wasn't CW. It was another moderator. It's in the other thread. It's why the tribute thread was started--so those who just can't take anything negative have a place and here, we can discuss the good and bad. If you do a thread search for "moderator" in the other thread, you should find it.

And if you can't find it you could always ask the mod for clarification.

[sallemae]

I have to congratulate you on a great use of an icon. That one is 100% appropriate for your comment, lol.

"Suspect timing" isn't complimentary. Neither is the comment that when he used his force for bad, it was really, really bad.

There's something there, though she may never elaborate.



That icon works for both comments...IMO

Suspect timing.... doesn't have to mean nefarious!!! His force, physical force, mental force......wonder just what kind of force she is talking about.

Wonder if it's just negativity upon negativity.......you know like some of the stuff a person can read on message boards.....IMO

[incidentally]

First - not one post has suggested he "had" to be a pedophile because he was different or weird. The reasons people think he is a pedophile has to do with their evaluation of the evidence and facts in his criminal cases and prior settlements - not because he was weird (me - I prefer weird - much better than normal). Please don't put words in other's mouths, no matter what your grief.

Second - speaking for myself - I see no need to refute a post expressing love or regret about MJ passing - but some have been using this time to not express their love of MJ, but their scorn and derision towards all those who accused him of being a pedophile, or believed the accusations. Death does not mean one side gets to get all their jabs in while calling anyone who dares give a contrary opinion disrespectful.

doctor_J has made some very valuable points as have you have.

I have stayed glued to this thread and the TV. I have no idea why..I really thought I was indifferent to him yet here I sit, very little sleep last night and still awake.

I don't know the truth about allegations regarding pedophilia, but somehow unbeknown to me (until his death), he really did make a big difference in my life.

tally

[CinderL.]

I also heard that AEG was paying the $100,000.00 a month rent on the LA house. Yikes. They are in trouble.

[Mayasmimi]

I think it was the Staples Center in LA. But, I think he only showed up two times.


Not to argue, but just depends on what you read. I read three weeks. Who knows?

[Mayasmimi]

Yes, it could be way way more than the $480,000.00, that might just be for the tickets. I don't know. Probably a lot more. :confused:

K...IIRC....ticket refunds were approaching $85,000,000.

[CinderL.]

doctor_J has made some very valuable points as have you have.

I have stayed glued to this thread and the TV. I have no idea why..I really thought I was indifferent to him yet here I sit, very little sleep last night and still awake.

I don't know the truth about allegations regarding pedophilia, but somehow unbeknown to me (until his death), he really did make a big difference in my life.

tally

Isn't that strange, I feel the same. I didn't think I cared a thing about MJ, but here I am. Maybe it is because that is all that is on the news. I feel sort of sorry for the loved ones of Farrah. She kind of got pushed to the sidelines.

[Lyvia]

<snip>Suspect timing.... doesn't have to mean nefarious!!! <snip>
Of course it does. In this case, in context, it does. It speaks to something a lot of people speculated about at the time. IMO, she confirmed it.

His force, physical force, mental force......wonder just what kind of force she is talking about.<snip>

She said when he used his force for bad, it was very, very bad. That's pretty clear.

Those two things in context show there was something not right that Lisa knew about. imo

[legalmania]

TMZ is on the money here. I was on another forum reporting that he had died, per TMZ, and Fox and CNN weren't calling it. I kept saying, wait, he is in a coma, no he is dead, it was nuts. They have gotten this one right the whole time.

Harvey was the first to start talking to the celeberties. He pays these kids well. They all have scanners they know all the addresses. So they are the first ones there. They already have the story up on the internet when most of the media is still on their way to the scene.

[CinderL.]

Not to argue, but just depends on what you read. I read three weeks. Who knows?

Could be, I just heard he wasn't up to doing what they wanted him to do.

[Mamie]

When MJ was rehearsing for his upcoming concerts, i wonder if there will be video of it so that we can see it?


I'm hoping for the same thing, Bubbles, if video that they release it to the public.

[Avalon]

I have stayed glued to this thread and the TV. I have no idea why..I really thought I was indifferent to him yet here I sit, very little sleep last night and still awake.

Me too. It is the same scenario (with me) as the ANS case. I want to know how he died (I believe it was drug-related) and what happened with this doctor. This is a mystery that is unfolding with new news almost hourly. And I do feel bad, as I mentioned before. He is a very tragic figure who used to be such a cute kid....I feel very sorry for him.

[Mayasmimi]

doctor_J has made some very valuable points as have you have.

I have stayed glued to this thread and the TV. I have no idea why..I really thought I was indifferent to him yet here I sit, very little sleep last night and still awake.

I don't know the truth about allegations regarding pedophilia, but somehow unbeknown to me (until his death), he really did make a big difference in my life.

tally

You put into words, exactly, what I am feeling. So sad that he didn't know he was loved by so many, and sad that we didn't know it either. A little piece of our childhood went with him.:sad:

[CinderL.]

IIRC all of the news media has reported that he is licensed in CA, TX & NV.

Someone I heard said not CA. Just TX, and NV. :shrug:

[incidentally]

Isn't that strange, I feel the same. I didn't think I cared a thing about MJ, but here I am. Maybe it is because that is all that is on the news. I feel sort of sorry for the loved ones of Farrah. She kind of got pushed to the sidelines.

Farrah's death has also touched me but I think we all were prepared. Michael's death was something I didn't even think of.

It is weird, isn't it?

[Mayasmimi]

Could be, I just heard he wasn't up to doing what they wanted him to do.

I know. Also read on FOX that the comeback was never going to happen. He was just too weak, and touring was forever difficult for him, even as a young man. My heart aches for his babies.

[*Serenity*]

LAPD meets with Jackson family @ Michael's home....

http://www.tmz.com/

[CinderL.]

Farrah's death has also touched me but I think we all were prepared. Michael's death was something I didn't even think of.

It is weird, isn't it?

That is so true. We did know it was coming with Farrah's death. Just seems sad that she is put on the back burner. Timing. Very sad week actually. First Ed McMann. Then Farrah, now MJ. Bad week.

[Avalon]

Harvey was the first to start talking to the celeberties. He pays these kids well. They all have scanners they know all the addresses. So they are the first ones there. They already have the story up on the internet when most of the media is still on their way to the scene.

I watch the TMZ show on Sun. late night when there's nothing else on. It can be kind of fun. I didn't realize some of those "kids" on the show are actually producers and very knowledgeable and well-spoken, as we've seen on their interviews today and last night.

[CinderL.]

I know. Also read on FOX that the comeback was never going to happen. He was just too weak, and touring was forever difficult for him, even as a young man. My heart aches for his babies.

Very sad. Just you wait for that BATTLE. That is going to be something.:huh:

[4Life]

Michael’s manager, Frank DiLeo, sobbing, told me this morning: "The show at the Staples Center was amazing. Michael rehearsed 10 or 11 songs. He sang and danced, not always at full power, but the way you do for a run-through. When the show was over, he called me, but I was in the back getting something. He found me, and said, ‘Frank, I am so happy. He said he was just so happy. He said, This is really our time. He put his arm around me."

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/manager-michael-jackson-rehearsed-night-1003988386.story

[incidentally]

You put into words, exactly, what I am feeling. So sad that he didn't know he was loved by so many, and sad that we didn't know it either. A little piece of our childhood went with him.:sad:

Yes, Mayasmimi. I was convinced I never got into his songs yet I find myself hearing clips of them and dancing.

The human spirit is a sensitive and sometimes secretive to us. I had no idea he had permeated and affected my life. No idea until today.

tally

[legalmania]

Farrah's death has also touched me but I think we all were prepared. Michael's death was something I didn't even think of.

It is weird, isn't it?

I'm sure even Farrah would understand, here was somebody who we thought was going to make a comeback at 50. I'm sure it would have been a awesome show. Michael did not want to fail this time.

[CinderL.]

------------------------------

He showed up only twice to rehearse? he was either sick or had no real intentions of doing all those concerts. jmo

I don't think he would ever had made it. 50 shows, no way.

[aproudmom]

I'm hoping for the same thing, Bubbles, if video that they release it to the public.

they said it was 8 hours he had practiced for his tour the night before his death..and it was all on tape...but I bet they sell it to pay off some of his debt..

[doctor_J]

It wasn't CW. It was another moderator. It's in the other thread. It's why the tribute thread was started--so those who just can't take anything negative have a place and here, we can discuss the good and bad. If you do a thread search for "moderator" in the other thread, you should find it.

And if you can't find it you could always ask the mod for clarification.

That's a little misleading. The thread you're referring to clearly states "NO DISCUSSION". :rolleyes:

[Mayasmimi]

That is so true. We did know it was coming with Farrah's death. Just seems sad that she is put on the back burner. Timing. Very sad week actually. First Ed McMann. Then Farrah, now MJ. Bad week.


I know. Don't hate. I just think Ed McMann and Michael Jackson were so much more relevant than Farrah. Still, very sorry for Farrah's loved ones.

[incidentally]

That is so true. We did know it was coming with Farrah's death. Just seems sad that she is put on the back burner. Timing. Very sad week actually. First Ed McMann. Then Farrah, now MJ. Bad week.

Sad week, CinderL. We are losing our youth. I'm not really sure how to explain it.

[CinderL.]

they said it was 8 hours he had practiced for his tour the night before his death..and it was all on tape...but I bet they sell it to pay off some of his debt..

Plus, they are saying there is a cache of his music that is in some vault that hasn't been distributed.

[CinderL.]

I'm not sure I understand your statement, Cinder.

Trauma caused by CPR?

Please explain and TIA.

Oh, you know like bruising from the CPR. But, this was just a preliminary report, so maybe they wouldn't report something like that.

[Avalon]

Did you all see the doctor's letter to his patients on TMZ? It's funny how he said he was "ceasing the practice of medicine". Wouldn't he have just said "leaving the practice" indefinitely?

Anyway, he must be kicking himself...yes indeed it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

[4Life]

------------------------------

He showed up only twice to rehearse? he was either sick or had no real intentions of doing all those concerts. jmoI never heard he only showed twice. I heard he was rehearsing for a few weeks. I heard he was showing up late to some rehearsels

[CinderL.]

I know. Don't hate. I just think Ed McMann and Michael Jackson were so much more relevant that Farrah. Still, very sorry for Farrah's loved ones.

I loved Johnny and Ed. And I did want Farrah's haircut. :smile:

[CinderL.]

Did you all see the doctor's letter to his patients on TMZ? It's funny how he said he was "ceasing the practice of medicine". Wouldn't he have just said "leaving the practice" indefinitely?

Anyway, he must be kicking himself...yes indeed it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

I did read that. He did say he would be back, didn't he? I really bet he is kicking himself big time. Watch out for what you wish for. EEEk.

[aproudmom]

I don't think he would ever had made it. 50 shows, no way.

I agree I do not think he could do 50 shows..that would be hard for a healthy person..he looked better than he had but I do not think he would have made it to all of them..they had to push it back once IIRC at first they said he had cancer on his nose removed but have not heard that again not sure if he was just not ready or if that was even true..

[4Life]

Plus, they are saying there is a cache of his music that is in some vault that hasn't been distributed.

Doesn't he still own the rights to the Beatles music? I'm sure that is worth a huge fortune

[legalmania]

I don't think he would ever had made it. 50 shows, no way.

If Ozzie Osbourne can make a comeback after breaking his neck and all the medication he was on I'm sure Michael could have done 50 shows.

[Lyvia]

Being accused and arrested doesn't mean the allegations are true. For MJ even after the evidence was presented, an impartial jury concluded he was NOT GUILTY, of that which he was accused.

imo..of course.

Which means they weren't convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. Though some jurors said they thought he did it and some thought he molested other children. And some were just so starstruck they weren't impartial. I wonder if a few were afraid to come in with a guilty verdict, knowing how crazed some of his fans were (death threats to Diane Dimond, for one thing).

[Mayasmimi]

I loved Johnny and Ed. And I did want Farrah's haircut. :smile:

Me too girl. With todays products? I could have had it. Such a very beautiful woman.

Just a very sad week.:sad:

[legalmania]

Doesn't he still own the rights to the Beatles music? I'm sure that is worth a huge fortune

Last I heard yes. Poor Paul wants that so bad.

[CinderL.]

Doesn't he still own the rights to the Beatles music? I'm sure that is worth a huge fortune

He owns part of the rights to the Beatles music. I don't know what exactly, but I heard today that Paul M. was really Pi**ed that MJ outbid him and Oko. But, MJ spent way more than he took in. He was in debt 400,000.00 to 500,000.00 dollars.

[Mayasmimi]

Doesn't he still own the rights to the Beatles music? I'm sure that is worth a huge fortune


I read somewhere yesterday that upon his death he bequeathed (sp?) the rights to McCartney's music to McCartney. Guess well see.

[Avalon]

They also said that he hadnt shown up for rehearsal for 3 days. Now they r saying the night before his death.

Well, the problem is that (as the reporters have claimed) you can't believe stuff coming out of Jackson's camp. They are notoriously, uh, inaccurate. Like Brando's son tonight starting to snow us that MJ didn't use prescription drugs excessively....before Chopra cut that off. I really appreciate Chopra's honesty and sensitivity.

[4Life]

If Ozzie Osbourne can make a comeback after breaking his neck and all the medication he was on I'm sure Michael could have done 50 shows.

How old is Cher? She did over 45 concerts in 2008
Did 2 world wide farwell tours
Now she has another 50 or so scheduled for this year

[aproudmom]

-----------

They also said that he hadnt shown up for rehearsal for 3 days. Now they r saying the night before his death.

did they I heard the one was 8hrs on the night before he died and they went in a got all his stuff after his death and that was one thing they got..but it was just on Dateline

[CinderL.]

Me too girl. With todays products? I could have had it. Such a very beautiful woman.

Just a very sad week.:sad:

Ha, yes, we needed today's products. I slept in those stupid giant rollers, and withing 20 min. my hair was flat. :angry:

[Mayasmimi]

If anybody has TV 1 in their area they are showing all of Michael's videos all nite long.

Now they are broadcasting his 30th anniversary special.

Thanks so much. Once the THs are done, I will tune in. Just a few more minutes.

[annalyzer]

I want to order Thriller. What is the difference between Thriller and Michael Jackson 25th Anniversary of Thriller? Anyone know?

[CinderL.]

I've been reading on this as well. Everything legal I read so far is if one parent dies and the other is living the living parent gets custody unless extenuating circumstances prevent it but it would have to get challenged in court. A legal guardian is only recognized if both parents die. When I did a search I did not use MJ's name -- it's like when you name a beneficiary and a contingent beneficiary. Haven't found anything to dispute it either - however it does say the court will take it into consideration when making a decision "in the best interests of the child/children".

I would think the court with a legal guardian would ask the two older children what their preference would be as well.

Look at the case of Sean Goldman who was taken by his mother to Brazil. She dies, and the bio dad, who has been fighting for years to get his son back, still can't.

[legalmania]

I've been reading on this as well. Everything legal I read so far is if one parent dies and the other is living the living parent gets custody unless extenuating circumstances prevent it but it would have to get challenged in court. A legal guardian is only recognized if both parents die. When I did a search I did not use MJ's name -- it's like when you name a beneficiary and a contingent beneficiary. Haven't found anything to dispute it either - however it does say the court will take it into consideration when making a decision "in the best interests of the child/children".

I would think the court with a legal guardian would ask the two older children what their preference would be as well.

Probate court is nothing like naming a beneficiary they do what's in the best interest of the child. Even if she gave up her rights in a divorce she still has rights in probate court. The kids will probably be appointed a guardian ad litem for now, until the court decides who is best qualified to take the kids. I hope they don't break the kids up.

[Mayasmimi]

Ha, yes, we needed today's products. I slept in those stupid giant rollers, and withing 20 min. my hair was flat. :angry:

Ya. Grew up in the South.....humidity won't let the hair go flat. Big, but not pretty. I didn't realize she was so much older than me. I so wanted to look like her. Just the most beautiful woman.

[emdragon]

Farrah's death has also touched me but I think we all were prepared. Michael's death was something I didn't even think of.

It is weird, isn't it?

Like you I thought I was indifferent to MJ I liked some of his songs but thought little of him.

I'm re-thinking some of my opinions of him or at least setting them aside for a bit.

But I haven't cried.

Now Farrah I cried listening to Ryan last night.
I think MJ death is a blessing for Farrah's friends and family- they can say good-bye in peace.

[CinderL.]

How old is Cher? She did over 45 concerts in 2008
Did 2 world wide farwell tours
Now she has another 50 or so scheduled for this year

I don't think Cher has the same baggage that MJ had.

[Mayasmimi]

I want to order Thriller. What is the difference between Thriller and Michael Jackson 25th Anniversary of Thriller? Anyone know?


Not sure. My guess would be better sound, technology. I sure wish I had bought it back when. Those songs are a big part of my early 20's. Hadn't even thought about them until yesterday. I still cannot believe he is gone. IMO....there has never been another like him. Genious.

[legalmania]

How old is Cher? She did over 45 concerts in 2008
Did 2 world wide farwell tours
Now she has another 50 or so scheduled for this year

I think she was over 50 also. Look at Tina Turner she just did something a couple of years ago. Even Keith Richards did a tour with Mick who were both either 60 or older.

[aproudmom]

Ya know, unfortunately, these things happen WAY too often! The Drs. give the patient the meds to begin with. Then the patient needs more because their bodies become used to them and they start calling on a daily basis to get more of the same meds. The Drs, at times, give them what they want to keep peace in their own practice and it becomes a Domino effect!

I have seen it more than a few times. Not a good situation.

I pray that MJ put a guardian for those children! I feel so bad for them!

I totally agree but the sad thing is when the people really need it they can not get it cause of the ones that abuse it or get it and sell it..I know from personal experience and never took anything that was not prescribed to me nor took more than I was told actually usually I took less..

[legalmania]

I want to order Thriller. What is the difference between Thriller and Michael Jackson 25th Anniversary of Thriller? Anyone know?

I can pull it up. It's on my dime.

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Thriller (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/thriller)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[Lyvia]

<snip>And yes, CW is the moderator of this site.<snip>

While I agree there is only one CW and she is indeed a mod, there is another one. I forget her name, but if you search with the other thread (MJ is dead #2, I think) using "moderator," you'll find it.

Which thread can't you find? There's a condolence thread that was started because fans were complaining about negative comments. The moderator suggested it because positive and negative comments are allowed.

[CinderL.]

Ya. Grew up in the South.....humidity won't let the hair go flat. Big, but not pretty. I didn't realize she was so much older than me. I so wanted to look like her. Just the most beautiful woman.

He he. I had no body. Just straight. Finally the hippie days came in for me. :lol:

[doctor_J]

Which means they weren't convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. Though some jurors said they thought he did it and some thought he molested other children. And some were just so starstruck they weren't impartial. I wonder if a few were afraid to come in with a guilty verdict, knowing how crazed some of his fans were (death threats to Diane Dimond, for one thing).

Got a link to jurors saying they thought he did it? That's the 2nd time you've mentioned that so be nice to read it in something credible. Also jurors talking about their fear of death threats, I'd be interested in those comments.

[CinderL.]

Like you I thought I was indifferent to MJ I liked some of his songs but thought little of him.

I'm re-thinking some of my opinions of him or at least setting them aside for a bit.

But I haven't cried.

Now Farrah I cried listening to Ryan last night.
I think MJ death is a blessing for Farrah's friends and family- they can say good-bye in peace.

You may be right about Farrah's family, I hadn't thought about it that way.

[Lyvia]

They weren't convinced because the state failed to present any convincing evidence which would support a guilty verdict. It's quite simple, really.
I disagree. It's a fact that jurors have since said exactly what I posted. Links have been posted. Justice was not done.

imo

[4Life]

I want to order Thriller. What is the difference between Thriller and Michael Jackson 25th Anniversary of Thriller? Anyone know?


The Biggest Album Ever just got bigger. The 25th Anniversary Edition of Thriller celebrates this ground-breaking album with 7 bonus tracks, six of which are previously unreleased. The new tracks include exclusive remixes from Kanye West, Fergie, will.i.am and Akon along with a previously unreleased track from the Thriller sessions, "For All Time," newly mixed and mastered by Michael Jackson. Also included is a BONUS DVD with new, digitally restored versions of the three videos from the album as well as the Michael Jackson's groundbreaking performance of "Billie Jean" on the "Motown 25: Yesterday, Today, Forever" television special (first broadcast on NBC May 16, 1983).

The deluxe version is housed in a hardbound book-style package with a 48-page color booklet of rare photos and lyrics. Also included in all versions of the release is a new personal greeting from Michael Jackson to his fans penned exclusively for this special release.

http://www.amazon.com/Michael-Jackson-Anniversary-Thriller-Casebook/dp/B001041JLE

[CinderL.]

That's a case of corruption.

imo

Probably for another forum, but you are so right. Very sad.

[Mayasmimi]

I don't think Cher has the same baggage that MJ had.


Me either. Michael spent his childhood forced to climb the fame ladder. Just a lost man, who was never able to experience his lost childhood. IMO...Cher found her audience, and is fine with that. Can you even imagine Michael Jackson performing in Vegas? Was reported that he would years ago. So happy he didn't.

[Lyvia]

Got a link to jurors saying they thought he did it? That's the 2nd time you've mentioned that so be nice to read it in something credible. Also jurors talking about their fear of death threats, I'd be interested in those comments.

The links were posted already. How many times should we post the same links because people won't read whole threads? Two jurors said they regretted their verdicts. Others said they thought he molested other children.

I'm always happy to post a link the first time a fact is introduced. But once links are posted, it's silly to keep posting them.

[Daisyspit]

On the 911 call:

Caller was asked by Dispatcher where the victim was, and he answered "on the bed." Caller then said that the Doc was attempting to resusitate.

Now I am no doctor, and its probably been 20 years since I took a CPR class, but why would someone be doing chest compressions to someone who is lying on a soft matress? IMO the chest wouldn't get enough compression on a soft surface.

[CinderL.]

They stated that the Dr. was licensed in LA, CA.

That's what I heard.

Could be. Who knows what is true or not with all of the news going crazy. Either way, I bet he wishes he has stayed in TX.

[4Life]

I think she was over 50 also. Look at Tina Turner she just did something a couple of years ago. Even Keith Richards did a tour with Mick who were both either 60 or older.

Just looked, Cher just turned 63. She was doing all those tours when she was 60/61

[CinderL.]

On the 911 call:

Caller was asked by Dispatcher where the victim was, and he answered "on the bed." Caller then said that the Doc was attempting to resusitate.

Now I am no doctor, and its probably been 20 years since I took a CPR class, but why would someone be doing chest compressions to someone who is lying on a soft matress? IMO the chest wouldn't get enough compression on a soft surface.

They said that in the Anna N. case.

[emdragon]

I want to order Thriller. What is the difference between Thriller and Michael Jackson 25th Anniversary of Thriller? Anyone know?

Not sure but the Thriller I have (not the 25th) has all kinds of interviews with Quincy Jones.

I'd suggest the Essential Michael Jackson- it has all the good songs all the way back to the Jackson 5.

(i refused to buy anything MJ until last night- then I figured the kids could uses the residuals)

[CinderL.]

I think that is a bit different because she took him to a different country.

It is very different, but watch this battle that is coming. Debbie Jackson will want those kids.

[CinderL.]

Just looked, Cher just turned 63. She was doing all those tours when she was 60/61

Yes, but was she doing all of the drugs that MJ was doing. And I think you will see it is Anna N. all over again.

[Lyvia]

Fortunately for MJ, the jury properly held the state to its burden, and in doing so concluded the evidence wasn't sufficent to convict. It's a scary thing knowing there are people on juries who convict without any evidence to support such a verdict. I would think that when a person is holding the life and liberty of another human being in their hands, that they would first make sure the state had proven the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

imo...of course.

And yet three of them regret the verdict and at some believe he molested other children.

So they did their jobs, and as happens in our system, a guilty man went free. That's the way it's set up.

imio

[GentleBreeze]

they said it was 8 hours he had practiced for his tour the night before his death..and it was all on tape...but I bet they sell it to pay off some of his debt..

Neil Cavuto said today that MJs record sales had gone up over 750% since yesterday.

And there is also 100 songs,videos of MJs in his collection that has not been released.

imo

[aproudmom]

Did you all see the doctor's letter to his patients on TMZ? It's funny how he said he was "ceasing the practice of medicine". Wouldn't he have just said "leaving the practice" indefinitely?

Anyway, he must be kicking himself...yes indeed it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

I just now read it..
http://www.tmz.com/

[legalmania]

Yes, but was she doing all of the drugs that MJ was doing. And I think you will see it is Anna N. all over again.

We don't know what medications he was doing yet until we see a tox report. I remember there was a famous models sister can't remember her name and she died from primetine mist.

[aproudmom]

Neil Cavuto said today that MJs record sells had gone up over 750% since yesterday.

And there is also 100 songs,videos of MJs in his collection that has not been released.

imo

oh yeah of course he is worth more dead than alive I guess but they also said the creditors will be jumping to get ahold of that money...just hope there is some left for his kids

[CinderL.]

We don't know what medications he was doing yet until we see a tox report. I remember there was a famous models sister can't remember her name and she died from primetine mist.


True, we don't know for sure, but I bet it is Anna all over again. But, I am guessing.

[CinderL.]

oh yeah of course he is worth more dead than alive I guess but they also said the creditors will be jumping to get ahold of that money...just hope there is some left for his kids

If they start conserving, with the royalties he gets, they should be ok in the end.

[4Life]

We don't know what medications he was doing yet until we see a tox report. I remember there was a famous models sister can't remember her name and she died from primetine mist.

Nicky Taylors sister

[legalmania]

True, we don't know for sure, but I bet it is Anna all over again. But, I am guessing.

I hope not for his kids sake. If his doctor was injecting him with medications he could go up for manslaughter.

[aproudmom]

I see a huge custody battle

Jackson Family Will Fight Rowe Tooth and Nail

Michael Jackson's family will wage an epic battle to make sure Paris and Michael Jr. do not end up in the custody of one Debbie Rowe -- this according to family members who spoke with TMZ.

The family is currently gathered together and they are reacting to our story this morning that Rowe never legally gave up her custody rights. Under California law, Rowe is in a position to get custody of her biological kids if she wants them, provided it would not be detrimental to the children.

The family complained to us the kids don't even know Debbie Rowe -- she hasn't been a part of their lives. They say the kids must remain "within the family."

http://www.tmz.com/

[GentleBreeze]

oh yeah of course he is worth more dead than alive I guess but they also said the creditors will be jumping to get ahold of that money...just hope there is some left for his kids

That wont happen anytime soon. It will take months to even get all that information into the Probate Court. Most have at least 90 days or more to supply the information to the court and then all the hearings will start. This thing is going to be so complex that it will take years to close because MJ was getting millions a year already and that will continue to come in plus any monies made after his death which will constantly come in too.

In the end I don't think the children will be left penniless.

imo

[legalmania]

Nicky Taylors sister


Thank you, I hate when that happens, sometimes I'm up at like 4am and it will come to me.

[4Life]

Ebay has increased their prices on anything MJ 30-50% according to Fox as well.I heard that too. They said Farrahs posters are selling for way over 500.00 a piece. BTW the news announced her funeral is Tuesday

[spydernweb2006]

I expect Anorexia to be listed as a contributor to his cardic arrest in the autopsy. The heart cannot function correctly when your electrolytes are off, and anorexia will cause that. Look at Karen Carpenter and Teresa Schiavo as examples. Extreme dieting/anorexia can and will kill. I hope, wish and pray if nothing else that MJ's death shines more light on this horrible disease. I fully believe Michael had anorexia.

JMHO

Hugs,
Spyder

[4Life]

Thank you, I hate when that happens, sometimes I'm up at like 4am and it will come to me.I've been there too

[emdragon]

If they start conserving, with the royalties he gets, they should be ok in the end.

They SERIOUSLY need to speak to Priscilla Presley

[Mayasmimi]

'Tis Sir Paul. He is an icon. He was knighted by the Queen of our mother country.

He is and will always be more than MJ.

JMO and not trying to start a debate because I will never waiver in my loyalty to the Beatles and their achievements.

MJ didn't have nothing on that. IMO. Granted he tried.

Disagree. Maybe we are from different generations. Paul McCartney....maybe, but still not the same. Agree that the Beatles were great.

It's different with Michael Jackson. There is not a soul living....in America.....who doesn't know Jackson. Neither of my kids, both in their 20s, know a thing about McCartney. Just sayin.

[legalmania]

That wont happen anytime soon. It will take months to even get all that information into the Probate Court. Most have at least 90 days or more to supply the information to the court and then all the hearings will start. This thing is going to be so complex that it will take years to close because MJ was getting millions a year already and that will continue to come in plus any monies made after his death which will constantly come in too.

In the end I don't think the children will be left penniless.

imo

They won't be left penniless believe me. Joe Jackson was a tough father but a good business man. I'm sure he's saved things that when produced will make a fortune. He probably put it in a name that the creditors can't touch.

[CinderL.]

I see a huge custody battle

Jackson Family Will Fight Rowe Tooth and Nail

Michael Jackson's family will wage an epic battle to make sure Paris and Michael Jr. do not end up in the custody of one Debbie Rowe -- this according to family members who spoke with TMZ.

The family is currently gathered together and they are reacting to our story this morning that Rowe never legally gave up her custody rights. Under California law, Rowe is in a position to get custody of her biological kids if she wants them, provided it would not be detrimental to the children.

The family complained to us the kids don't even know Debbie Rowe -- she hasn't been a part of their lives. They say the kids must remain "within the family."

http://www.tmz.com/

Frankly, I think those kids are already totally messed up, so I don't know who would be best to take care of them.

[4Life]

I can't get on the tmz site. Can you please advise what it says.

TIA.

Dr. Conrad Murray sent the note on his letterhead from his medical practice in Las Vegas. He says, "I am deeply saddened to leave you at this point, but please know my absence is not permanent." He continues, "In my absence, I will continue to manage the practice, and be involved as much as possible but from a distance."

from tmz.com

[Mayasmimi]

I can't get on the tmz site. Can you please advise what it says.

TIA.

Just checked. It's all been discussed here. I know that I sometimes have to reset my wireless router. Some sites I can see....others, no. Once I reset, can see everything. A thought.

[legalmania]

Disagree. Maybe we are from different generations. Paul McCartney....maybe, but still not the same. Agree that the Beatles were great.

It's different with Michael Jackson. There is not a soul living....in America.....who doesn't know Jackson. Neither of my kids, both in their 20s, know a thing about McCartney. Just sayin.

Your right it's two different things Michael was known for his unique genius, not only throughout America but the world. The Beatles were known for the revolution of music.

[CinderL.]

Michael Jackson arranged to give Paul McCartney the rights to the Beatles back catalog through his will according to reports published earlier this year.

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/10457

That is great. As it should be. It is his music.

[Mayasmimi]

I like Paul McCartney too but honestly cannot compare to MJ. MJ transcended all races, cultures. When you think about it MJ really has not toured or made recordings in years and yet his sales still top the charts.


Agree. Wish I could find a cassette player. I have thriller right here. So old, probably wouldn't play anyway. Gotta get the CD. Not much on downloading tunes. I like tangible. Old lady....I guess.

[legalmania]

Just checked. It's all been discussed here. I know that I sometimes have to reset my wireless router. Some sites I can see....others, no. Once I reset, can see everything. A thought.

It won't help google is reporting that they have never had a spike like this before. They thought they were gonna crash.

[Mayasmimi]

That is great. As it should be. It is his music.

Read that, too.

[Mayasmimi]

It won't help google is reporting that they have never had a spike like this before. They thought they were gonna crash.

Only saying that TMZ is working. I sometimes, for unknown reasons, cannot access some sites. Every once in a while have to reset the router. Don't know why.

[legalmania]

Only saying that TMZ is working. I sometimes, for unknown reasons, cannot access some sites. Every once in a while have to reset the router. Don't know why.

I just went on with no problem.

[GentleBreeze]

Picture of Grace (nanny) with children:

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2540/gracekidsrarebi0yb9.jpg

She sure seems very relaxed with the children. She does look like a mother figure. I hope Grace still stays with the children. She has been with them all for so long.

imo

[Lyvia]

What do you mean 'which thread can't I find.???.

I never said I couldn't find a thread.

Please enlighten me about what I missed.

TIA

LOL. We're off topic, so if you have any other issues, PM me.

[legalmania]

Here try this

http://www.tmz.com/

[emdragon]

Disagree. Maybe we are from different generations. Paul McCartney....maybe, but still not the same. Agree that the Beatles were great.

It's different with Michael Jackson. There is not a soul living....in America.....who doesn't know Jackson. Neither of my kids, both in their 20s, know a thing about McCartney. Just sayin.

Without argument it goes

Elvis
The Beatles (All 4)

Prince/Michael Jackson (I can't decide #3 because I feel both are genius just Michael go more press and Prince kept a lower profile.)

I really think these 4 changed music and if you read their interviews the Beatles ALL were inspired by Elvis and we Know what Michael thinks of the Beatles..

ok said my piece..

[Mayasmimi]

She sure seems very relaxed with the children. She does look like a mother figure. I hope Grace still stays with the children. She has been with them all for so long.

imo


Hope so,too. She does look like a Mom. The pic is a few years old, though.

[doctor_J]

'Tis Sir Paul. He is an icon. He was knighted by the Queen of our mother country.

He is and will always be more than MJ.

JMO and not trying to start a debate because I will never waiver in my loyalty to the Beatles and their achievements.

MJ didn't have nothing on that. IMO. Granted he tried.

Gotta say, yesterday reminded me of the day John Lennon was shot. They kept reporting it as "The day the music died". So sad. But the Beatles were, for me personally, a little before my time, compared to Jackson. More along the lines of Elvis for me. The Beatles, Elvis, Michael Jackson, they've made huge impacts on how we "hear" the world. Legends for sure. The Beatles have died singly and it defuses a little of the impact but Paul is one of the all time greats.

[CinderL.]

You made me LOL.

I bet he does wish that..


JMo

He he, can you imagine, 11 days ago, the guy thinks this is a great opportunity. Working with MJ, getting payed, probably a ton, quits his practice that he has worked his life for. Geez. Now, all over the news, the cops want to talk to him, and heaven help him if he injected MJ with some fatal dose of narcotic. OMG. Click your heals together 3 times and say, there is no place like home.

[GentleBreeze]

Without argument it goes

Elvis
The Beatles (All 4)

Prince/Michael Jackson (I can't decide #3 because I feel both are genius just Michael go more press and Prince kept a lower profile.)

I really think these 4 changed music and if you read their interviews the Beatles ALL were inspired by Elvis and we Know what Michael thinks of the Beatles..

ok said my piece..

Personally I liked Elvis more than any other singer but then I really always like MJs music/videos too.

I wasn't ever a big fan of the Beatles and Prince I did like.

imo

[legalmania]

Without argument it goes

Elvis
The Beatles (All 4)

Prince/Michael Jackson (I can't decide #3 because I feel both are genius just Michael go more press and Prince kept a lower profile.)

I really think these 4 changed music and if you read their interviews the Beatles ALL were inspired by Elvis and we Know what Michael thinks of the Beatles..

ok said my piece..

Prince how do you figure? Michael had the number one album of all time. He's broken more records than anybody. He invented the moon walk. Prince is a good dancer and purple rain was a good song and movie, but come on.

[CinderL.]

She sure seems very relaxed with the children. She does look like a mother figure. I hope Grace still stays with the children. She has been with them all for so long.

imo

But, Debbie has already been bought off by MJ. If she thinks she can make a buck out of getting the kids back, what do you think she will do. I am looking for a LONG custody battle.

[Mayasmimi]

Without argument it goes

Elvis
The Beatles (All 4)

Prince/Michael Jackson (I can't decide #3 because I feel both are genius just Michael go more press and Prince kept a lower profile.)

I really think these 4 changed music and if you read their interviews the Beatles ALL were inspired by Elvis and we Know what Michael thinks of the Beatles..

ok said my piece..


Agree that The Beatles, as a group might surpass Michael Jackson. I don't think so, but I get what you are saying.

Love Prince......as much as I love him.....not even close.

Remember.....this is my opinion. Just sayin.

[Mamie]

I like Paul McCartney too but honestly cannot compare to MJ. MJ transcended all races, cultures. When you think about it MJ really has not toured or made recordings in years and yet his sales still top the charts.

I agree, Athena.

[GentleBreeze]

He he, can you imagine, 11 days ago, the guy thinks this is a great opportunity. Working with MJ, getting payed, probably a ton, quits his practice that he has worked his life for. Geez. Now, all over the news, the cops want to talk to him, and heaven help him if he injected MJ with some fatal dose of narcotic. OMG. Click your heals together 3 times and say, there is no place like home.

If he did nothing intentionally or recklessly then I feel very sorry for this man. His letter was very warm and kind to his patients. I would think he is devastated that this has happened to MJ.

imo

[aproudmom]

I hope not for his kids sake. If his doctor was injecting him with medications he could go up for manslaughter.

I don't think we will know just what killed him IMO it will be a combination of drugs and if he was taking other meds the doctor did not know about he could have just gave him a shot for pain and it reacted with something else I just heard antibiotics can even cause cardiac arrest mixed with pres. drugs.. I am not sure this doctor was his main doctor for years so they will go back and see what was given to him and he owed alot of money to a pharmacy but they settled this was bound to happen..I think alot of people could have stepped in perhaps his family IMO if your a adult you are responsible for what you do or put into your body unless doctors were writing multiple prescriptions and putting them in other names..I just hate to see this Doctor go down before we know all the facts..he could be totally innocent the people running his tours hired him so I think we will see other doctors come into the picture why would they want him so doped up or dead if he was hired to go on tour with MJ..But we shall see in a few weeks I guess..

they just said he had complained of chest pains on LKL..Liza Minneli just said that anyway..

[Mayasmimi]

Well, that is fine with me. I have no problem with you sheltering your young about the Beatles and giving admiration to MJ.

I would just rather my off-spring know about the Beatles.

JMO


No problem here. Did I suggest I sheltered my offspring (I prefer to call them my kids) from The Beatles? Guess I'll have to read back. All about choices. I don't recall ever sheltering them from any music. Angry much? Geesh.

[GentleBreeze]

But, Debbie has already been bought off by MJ. If she thinks she can make a buck out of getting the kids back, what do you think she will do. I am looking for a LONG custody battle.

I don't even think Debbie likes kids that much. I hope she does the right thing and lets them live with the ones that really knows them and has cared for them for a long time. She doesn't even know them and they don't know her either. It would be such a shame, imo.

imo

[CinderL.]

If he did nothing intentionally or recklessly then I feel very sorry for this man. His letter was very warm and kind to his patients. I would think he is devastated that this has happened to MJ.

imo


I feel really sorry for him. I don't think he had any idea what he was getting into.

[FallenAngel♥]

I posted this on the Farrah thread but i thought i would share it over here also........


Ok...I had a 10 year old make me cry tonight.

My neighbor across the street was coming home from the store and i was watering my flowers and her 10yr old son got out of the car and was screaming my name and said come here, come here ...so i put the hose down and went across the street and he said " did you hear Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett died on the same day" and i said yep i sure did and he said " i know why Michael died " and i was thinking OMG does this baby know about all the drugs and he said " yep i know why he died, he died so he could sing to Farrah while she went to Heaven" and i said wow how do you know about Farrah and Michael and he said " Farrah's on Charlies Angels on TV Land and Michael sings and dances" and then he said " you know why else Michael died" and i thought OMG here comes the drugs and he said " God didn't want the papparrazi to bother Farrah and her family right now" and i almost started to cry.

Straight out of the mouths of babes. If Michael wouldn't have died yesterday the media would be all over Farrah's passing......and i'm not sure Farrah would have liked that BUT i know Michael would have loved all this media attention.

I hope they both are finally at peace tonight... :rose:

[CinderL.]

I don't even think Debbie likes kids that much. I hope she does the right thing and lets them live with the ones that really knows them and has cared for them for a long time. She doesn't even know them and they don't know her either. It would be such a shame, imo.

imo


I hope she will do what is best for the kids. But, unfortunately, I think she will see $$$$$ signs.

[GentleBreeze]

No problem here. Did I suggest I sheltered my offspring (I prefer to call them my kids) from The Beatles? Guess I'll have to read back. All about choices. I don't recall ever sheltering them from any music. Angry much? Geesh.

My grandkids dont even know who the Beatles are. They do know who Elvis and MJ is though.

They have never even mentioned the Beatles because they have no idea who they are in order to mention them in the first place.

imo

[aproudmom]

If he did nothing intentionally or recklessly then I feel very sorry for this man. His letter was very warm and kind to his patients. I would think he is devastated that this has happened to MJ.

imo

ITA and think we need to give this doctor some slack until we know

[GentleBreeze]

I hope she will do what is best for the kids. But, unfortunately, I think she will see $$$$$ signs.

I am keeping my fingers crossed for the children but I wouldn't be surprised if you are right.

imo

[CinderL.]

I posted this on the Farrah thread but i thought i would share it over here also........


Ok...I had a 10 year old make me cry tonight.

My neighbor across the street was coming home from the store and i was watering my flowers and her 10yr old son got out of the car and was screaming my name and said come here, come here ...so i put the hose down and went across the street and he said " did you hear Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett died on the same day" and i said yep i sure did and he said " i know why Michael died " and i was thinking OMG does this baby know about all the drugs and he said " yep i know why he died, he died so he could sing to Farrah while she went to Heaven" and i said wow how do you know about Farrah and Michael and he said " Farrah's on Charlies Angels on TV Land and Michael sings and dances" and then he said " you know why else Michael died" and i thought OMG here comes the drugs and he said " God didn't want the papparrazi to bother Farrah and her family right now" and i almost started to cry.

Straight out of the mouths of babes. If Michael wouldn't have died yesterday the media would be all over Farrah's passing......and i'm not sure Farrah would have liked that BUT i know Michael would have loved all this media attention.

I hope they both are finally at peace tonight... :rose:

That is touching. What a sweet kid.

[Mayasmimi]

I hope she will do what is best for the kids. But, unfortunately, I think she will see $$$$$ signs.

Guess I am different. I just don't think so (hope not). I personally think it's best that the three kids grow up together. Whomever raises them....prayers.

[legalmania]

I don't think we will know just what killed him IMO it will be a combination of drugs and if he was taking other meds the doctor did not know about he could have just gave him a shot for pain and it reacted with something else I just heard antibiotics can even cause cardiac arrest mixed with pres. drugs.. I am not sure this doctor was his main doctor for years so they will go back and see what was given to him and he owed alot of money to a pharmacy but they settled this was bound to happen..I think alot of people could have stepped in perhaps his family IMO if your a adult you are responsible for what you do or put into your body unless doctors were writing multiple prescriptions and putting them in other names..I just hate to see this Doctor go down before we know all the facts..he could be totally innocent the people running his tours hired him so I think we will see other doctors come into the picture why would they want him so doped up or dead if he was hired to go on tour with MJ..But we shall see in a few weeks I guess..

they just said he had complained of chest pains on LKL..Liza Minneli just said that anyway..

It could have been the same thing that killed John Ritter and Tim Russert. You just don't know. It may have not had anything to do with medications at all.

[CinderL.]

ITA and think we need to give this doctor some slack until we know

I just think even if he did give him a shot, he might not have had a clue what was going on, if MJ was taking other things. He was only there for 11 days. How would he know the in's and out's of what was going on? Right now I feel really bad for the guy.

[GentleBreeze]

ITA and think we need to give this doctor some slack until we know

Well if TMZ is trustworthy then the family has been told that LE doesn't think a crime happened in the home.

[FallenAngel♥]

It could have been the same thing that killed John Ritter and Tim Russert. You just don't know. It may have not had anything to do with medications at all.

i'm pretty sure if that's the case they would have said something about his heart today...

[Mayasmimi]

My grandkids dont even know who the Beatles are. They do know who Elvis and MJ is though.

They have never even mentioned the Beatles because they have no idea who they are in order to mention them in the first place.

imo

I know. Thank you. So sorry I started this.

ETA....if we're talking about famous musicians? Remember that David Cassidy proclaimed that he was more important than The Beatles. Yeah. Heard it with my own ears. Hysterical.

[Avalon]

Yeah, I sort of feel a little different about the doctor after seeing that letter. He only signed on for this 11 days ago. I heard MJ knew him for years from Vegas....but I wonder if he had treated MJ before or knew his entire history. Maybe MJ just convinced him that he needed the Demerol, and the dr. was really beholden more to the concert promoter to make sure MJ felt well enough to show up. Although, where'd the Demerol come from....not something a cardiologist would normally be carrying around in his bag, I'd think....but maybe MJ already had it. Oh well, details we'll find out later, I guess....

[Mayasmimi]

i'm pretty sure if that's the case they would have said something about his heart today...

Yes. I see. But, of Lloyds insured him....must have been a very rigorous exam.

[aproudmom]

No problem here. Did I suggest I sheltered my offspring (I prefer to call them my kids) from The Beatles? Guess I'll have to read back. All about choices. I don't recall ever sheltering them from any music. Angry much? Geesh.

omg what are we talking about now..lol..ok I am only saying this cause we are talking what I am guessing is certain music well so many people on this board was so angry that NG would play Gone to Soon every night when she showed little Caylee..to me I did not care it meant alot to me I love the song he wrote it for a boy here in Indiana who died of AIDS..but alot see him in a different way and always will..even though he was found not guilty...just like OJ I know he is a murderer even though he was found Not Guilty..I don't know what MJ did or if any of those claims were true..but his music was wonderful

[emdragon]

Prince how do you figure? Michael had the number one album of all time. He's broken more records than anybody. He invented the moon walk. Prince is a good dancer and purple rain was a good song and movie, but come on.

If you think the moonwalk is music then what can I say.

But Prince was revolutionary to music-he was changing music and doing new things advancing the industry and he was giving us new artists, he was never ONLY about performing.
But like MJ he is and always has been a show stopper.

Prince is a prolific songwriter and musician, having released several hundred songs both under his own name and with other artists. He has won seven Grammy Awards, a Golden Globe, and an Academy Award. He was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame the first year he was eligible in 2004

[4Life]

I think this kid sums it all up perfectly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OTsgRfo4mw

[FallenAngel♥]

Yes. I see. But, of Lloyds insured him....must have been a very rigorous exam.

exactly that's why i don't think it was his heart.
and why was a heart dr living with him?

[legalmania]

Without argument? Ok here it is LOL I think just the album "Thriller" is what catapulted Jackson ahead of them all especially in the international arena. Still the #1 selling album of ALL time and it was recorded 25 years ago. Other than in the US because our citizens are more sensitive to the allegations -- I don't believe either the Beatles or Elvis had a larger following than MJ. JMO

I agree with you Athena by the way I like your name it's my dogs name also, she's a pit and as stubborn as a mule.

[Mayasmimi]

Without argument? Ok here it is LOL I think just the album "Thriller" is what catapulted Jackson ahead of them all especially in the international arena. Still the #1 selling album of ALL time and it was recorded 25 years ago. Other than in the US because our citizens are more sensitive to the allegations -- I don't believe either the Beatles or Elvis had a larger following than MJ. JMO


Totally agree. Thank you.:rose:

Exactly my point.

[emdragon]

It could have been the same thing that killed John Ritter and Tim Russert. You just don't know. It may have not had anything to do with medications at all.

Yes we know.

If it was what killed John Ritter it would have been obvious during autopsy as would any heart condition.
And cause of death would have also been obvious.

[annalyzer]

The Biggest Album Ever just got bigger. The 25th Anniversary Edition of Thriller celebrates this ground-breaking album with 7 bonus tracks, six of which are previously unreleased. The new tracks include exclusive remixes from Kanye West, Fergie, will.i.am and Akon along with a previously unreleased track from the Thriller sessions, "For All Time," newly mixed and mastered by Michael Jackson. Also included is a BONUS DVD with new, digitally restored versions of the three videos from the album as well as the Michael Jackson's groundbreaking performance of "Billie Jean" on the "Motown 25: Yesterday, Today, Forever" television special (first broadcast on NBC May 16, 1983).

The deluxe version is housed in a hardbound book-style package with a 48-page color booklet of rare photos and lyrics. Also included in all versions of the release is a new personal greeting from Michael Jackson to his fans penned exclusively for this special release.

http://www.amazon.com/Michael-Jackson-Anniversary-Thriller-Casebook/dp/B001041JLE

I just ordered Thriller from Amazon. I started to get some others, Bad, Off The Wall and HIStory but I just ordered Thriller ~ Special Edition because Billie Jean is mainly what I wanted and this album is no longer being manufactured. I can get the others later maybe. Thanks for your help. :)

[aproudmom]

Who could have killed himself? MJ?

kill himself no but yes MJ has in the long run killed himself just like Elvis and Anna Smith..the stress and loneliness I think MJ was a very unhappy soul he was on top for so many years and then it was gone pretty much here in the states over the accusations of child Molestation, losing his home and no money he had a hard life starting at a very young age

[legalmania]

If you think the moonwalk is music then what can I say.

But Prince was revolutionary to music-he was changing music and doing new things advancing the industry and he was giving us new artists, he was never ONLY about performing.
But like MJ he is and always has been a show stopper.

Don't insult my intelligence I know the moonwalk was a dance. MJ got 8 Grammies in one night. Prince is weird changing his name to the symbol what was that all about.

[emdragon]

--------------------------

Sorry but i gotta say this...........Prince is a genius? I dont think so. lol

Don't see an Oscar on MJ mantel :biggrin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Prince

You forget he wrote songs other than just his own

Think i missed these
How Come You Don't Call Me - Alicia Keys

I Feel For You - Chaka Khan

Manic Monday - The Bangles

Nothing Compares 2 U - Sinead O'Connor (is on the other list)

[tinkerbell]

Hi all,

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered; but, why would a cardiologist administer CPR to a dying Michael Jackson on top of a bed, rather than on the floor?

[Mayasmimi]

exactly that's why i don't think it was his heart.
and why was a heart dr living with him?

Curious. Guess we'll hear something at some point. Just now..sad.

Just watching LKL again now. Dr. Chopar is great. He knew what was going on with Michael. He must be heartbroken. Again...Miko made lite, and Chopar would not let him do that.

[legalmania]

I don't get it - your link takes me to a Portugal News Paper. Where is Maureen Orth and the VF article?

I must be losing it...

It's not you I got the same thing.

[Cornblossom]

I think this kid sums it all up perfectly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OTsgRfo4mwhmmmmm....so wise so young.

[CinderL.]

exactly that's why i don't think it was his heart.
and why was a heart dr living with him?

Because the production company hired the Dr. to stay with MJ.

[legalmania]

My grandkids dont even know who the Beatles are. They do know who Elvis and MJ is though.

They have never even mentioned the Beatles because they have no idea who they are in order to mention them in the first place.

imo

You think that's bad a few years ago my kid didn't know what an album was. Boy that made me feel old. Good thing there calling them albums again.

[Mayasmimi]

Sorry but I gotta say this .... he most certainly is. I think what some may not realize he is behind the scenes of many artists we have seen. He makes more money writing music than recording music.

Yup. Agree. Writing and producing. Prince is a genious. IMO...not the performer that Michael was, but gets a smidge close.

[aproudmom]

It is not uncommon to break a rib or two or crack a sternum while giving CPR. Bruising is common also especially if the patient lives.

yep they told us that when my grandma had surgery she was so little they said they would probably break her ribs but we had her as DNR because of her age and she had cancer

[emdragon]

Sorry but I gotta say this .... he most certainly is. I think what some may not realize he is behind the scenes of many artists we have seen. He makes more money writing music than recording music.

Thanks...:thumbsup:

[tinkerbell]

Million dollar question.

Thanks, I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one wondering...

BTW, didn't Anna Nicole Smith have CPR administered on her death bed?

[annalyzer]

Hi ya Anna - did you see my post to you re: the 25th anniversary edition v the original? Which one did you get?

Neither. I got Thriller ~ Special Edition. The original is way too expensive so I settled for the Special Edition which was 50 bucks. The original Thriller is 100 bucks.