Tuesday June 23, 2009 #1

[Tia]

I was just looking at the transcripts of NG and the tattoo guy says Casey had two tattoos.

She had the shamrock and then bella one. Didn't she also have one on her right front hip that looked like a gun? Or is that a birthmark? I know I saw it in one of the pictures where she was at the beach with Caylee.

jmo

I never saw that one. I always thought she just had the two.
But I wouldn't put it past her to have a tattoo that looked like a gun!!

[Pam1569]

I fully agree...however, LKB, Baez, Mr. Macaluso, Henry Lee and all the rest would be very happy if they can at least a hung jury....that would give them the notority that they are truly seeking....Otherwise they can end up ruining their own reputation.....

But that's the chance they agreed to take, when they took on this case..

But somewhere they believe they can achieve a hung jury....But I doubt it very strongly....

Barbara exactly to my bold. No way in hades will it be a hung jury. They can hope for this but it isn't going to happen. Maybe that is what they have told the creature or maybe that they can get her entirely off but they are living in a fantasy world now.

[grammaw]

I think the first time I heard cindy was when she being interviewed by greta on the phone and told greta she was tired and not to ask her any stupid questions.....I was really surprised...:scared:

that's because she has no respect(look at her with LE)in the beginning,it was all her feelings!She's so full of herself to this day!

[desmom]

I was just looking at the transcripts of NG and the tattoo guy says Casey had two tattoos.

She had the shamrock and then bella one. Didn't she also have one on her right front hip that looked like a gun? Or is that a birthmark? I know I saw it in one of the pictures where she was at the beach with Caylee.

jmo

She may have got the one on her hip from someone else. :shrug:

I think it is a flower tattoo. picture #28 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1678887/Casey-Anthony-Facebook-Myspace-Photobucket-Photos

[5boxersmom]

I never saw that one. I always thought she just had the two.
But I wouldn't put it past her to have a tattoo that looked like a gun!!

I was wrong. Not a gun. Can't tell what it is. See my post for pic.

jmo

[denjet]

Hi Barb, How did Dr. Spitzer see the autopsy photos? IIRC according to the January 8th court hearing about the photos of the autopsy JB was supposed to start a secure server and only let his team see them. If so his team would be his defense witness list would it not?
http://www.wftv.com/video/18603229/index.html

Also I have been thinking about what happened and came up with this theory (Sorry for it being so long).....


Great post Pam!
~snipped for space~~ refer to post #215
ITA with your assessment! I think KC may have spent some time between the 20th and 27th trying to get the smell out of the car ... and finally abandoned it for good around the 27th? not sure on that but I still find it hard to understand how someone could smell the decomposing of their toddler, knowing she murdered her and put her in the trunk, and be able to drive around with that constant reminder of what she did! Even after she dumped Caylee's body, she seemed more bothered about others smelling the car and getting caught than the events that caused the smell! Unbelievable!

Now that is pure evil !! :cursing:

[Dick Tracy]

Is there anyone at all who thinks Casey is innocent?

I certainly don't, the reason I am asking is that I am wondering how they are ever going to find 12 people in the entire world who will be able to keep an open mind about this case!!

Could you do it?
Could you sit and serve on this jury?
Could you just look at the evidence, and not be overwhelmed by the heartbreaking details of the case?
Could you look at pics of Caylee before and after and be able to remain
objective?
Could you return a fair verdict?

I could not do it.....there is no way they would ever be able to explain all the damaging evidence away to my satisfaction, Casey's behavior after Caylee went missing, and all the lies she has told.

I think this case will be long over before it ever actually enters a courtoom........so, could this actually help Casey.??.....if, someone wanted to argue that she was presumed guilty long before her right to a fair and impartial trial .
Agree?
Disagree?
And, is there anything that could be done about it?
Ex: gag order
Just wondering your thoughts!
Kat

I've been mulling some of these things over. I actually think this case will never go to trial and she'll wrange some sort of a plea, but then there's a part of me that says the State of Florida had a plea deal on the table, and then removed it, and that they WANT to go to trial. She's stated she will NOT take a plea deal.

As for being on the the jury? Could I do it? Sure. I would toss out everything that I've heard and listen to the evidence. Clear Conscious about it. I would weigh the evidence appropriately.

If found guilty, I would have no trouble sending her to the needle. The sooner the better.

[sammy62]

I think he just wanted a night or two away from Cindy and their house...you don't ask the motel clerk where to get the best delivery pizza if you are fixin' to die...saw how nice (and considerably more quiet) his 72 hour vacation from Hell was so he stayed in the Hospital - and away from the circus...

There is no way I like or respect George. But he has my sympathy living with that Hellion.

[summer]

The first time I saw Cindy on tv almost a year ago I thought she was an abuser. Just a feeling I had.

jmo

Interesting. You must be an incredibly intuitive person.

[Barbara fl.]

Is there anyone at all who thinks Casey is innocent?

I certainly don't, the reason I am asking is that I am wondering how they are ever going to find 12 people in the entire world who will be able to keep an open mind about this case!!

Could you do it?
Could you sit and serve on this jury?
Could you just look at the evidence, and not be overwhelmed by the heartbreaking details of the case?
Could you look at pics of Caylee before and after and be able to remain
objective?
Could you return a fair verdict?

I could not do it.....there is no way they would ever be able to explain all the damaging evidence away to my satisfaction, Casey's behavior after Caylee went missing, and all the lies she has told.

I think this case will be long over before it ever actually enters a courtoom........so, could this actually help Casey.??.....if, someone wanted to argue that she was presumed guilty long before her right to a fair and impartial trial .
Agree?
Disagree?
And, is there anything that could be done about it?
Ex: gag order
Just wondering your thoughts!
Kat


They could NEVER find 12 people to go along with innocent....all this defense is looking for is ONE juror that they may be able to sway (a weak link)...like in the PS case....then they walk away and Casey is on her own...and the defense got the publicity they wanted to captivate all the eyes of the bad guys out there...

If they should succeed, all it will mean is that Casey will be retried and found guilty...Casey will not be allowed out while the second case in pending....therefore I hink it safe to say that Casey is where she will be for the rest of her life.....

I wonder if the courts secured her "not guilty plea" just incase, after the trial...that Casey doesn't use the fact that she should have been told by her counsel to plea down to a lesser charge.....

[JHP]

I don't believe Cindy & George ever tried to "correct it."

Cindy and George tried to correct everything except Casey. She is perfect in their eyes.

JMO

[Tia]

She may have got the one on her hip from someone else. :shrug:

I think it is a flower tattoo. picture #28 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1678887/Casey-Anthony-Facebook-Myspace-Photobucket-Photos

Thanks Des! I hadn't seen a lot of those pics before.

Its so sad looking at beautiful little Caylee so full of life and knowing that she was tossed aside like trash.:crying:

[summer]

I have never thought she was abused,if anything she was spoiled rotten!Anyone that stole as much money from her family and was still living comfortably with them,was definitely not abused in my opinion.And one more thing,Spitzer better be careful with his analysis,or he'll be just as held in hign esteem as the one who (oops)lost a broken fingernail!

IMO that's all surface stuff. It's a twisted dance between the abuser and the abused. Ultimately the abused learns the tricks and turns the tables once in a while. I think Casey was definitely abused as a child. Just IMO, of course!

I'm wrong a lot though. :sad:

[desmom]

Desmom...that was a good read. The "O" explanation got me.

What did you think of Blink's theory on the swim diaper and the shorts?

Swimmies are new to me. We only had huggies and pampers when my kids were babies. I did not realize they came in colors.

The shorts theory is very interesting.

jmo

[summer]

Maybe Cindy won all the battles but Casey won the war.

[missinglink]

Did I read the FBI report wrong?

If I'm reading it correctly, the plastic bags that were found with parts (sorry I have to put it that way) of Caylee don't match the plastic bags from the residence? Someone please correct me if I'm reading it wrong.

It basically said that no conclusion could be made on Q71 vs. Q85 and Q86? And that there were no latent fingerprints on the pieces of separate plastic found in the laundry bag?

I noticed the FBI has more testing to do. They repeat that several times.

Also, although the pregnancy test was included in items received in this report, there wasn't anything said about the test results.

Also, it listed the hair mass but no results yet...

[♫Rock*Star♫]

No they didn't...that's how she became what she is....Until Caylee was born, then I believe that Cindy tried to push Casey into being a mother....but it was too late by then....

And I doubt that Casey would have let her mother take custody of Caylee because Casey wouldn't have been able to pretend to be such a loving mother if she allowed Cindy to get custody.....

It was a losing battle for poor Caylee.....

It was definitely a losing battle for Caylee. When it shouldn't have been a battle at all.

I might believe Cindy attempted to persuade Casey to be a mother if I didn't already believe that Cindy had Caylee calling Cindy "momma."

[summer]

I think the first time I heard cindy was when she being interviewed by greta on the phone and told greta she was tired and not to ask her any stupid questions.....I was really surprised...:scared:

That's the exact moment I became interested in this case. She repulsed and fascinated me all at the same time. WEIRD.

[AnniePie]

There is no way I like or respect George. But he has my sympathy living with that Hellion.

She's a hellion, but he's a spineless wimp. They deserve one another.

[Imperfect4]

Definitely an interesting read, imo.

Caylee/Casey Anthony Case: Caylees Autopsy Revelations Part I
http://blinkoncrime.com/2009/06/20/cayleecasey-anthony-case-caylees-autopsy-revelations-part-i/

WOW! Very interesting, des! Thank you for this find!

[EverMoth]

If Caylee was initially hid somewhere else then later transfered to the trunk before her body was finally dumped this could explain some of this.


I agree. It would seem that the first hiding place was the back yard since the dogs hit on it. But for how long would she have been there before having been moved? Let's say the grave wax developed within two weeks instead of month (although that's probably too quickly) that would mean she was in the back yard for almost two weeks before moving her to the trunk. The stench in the yard would be noticed by everyone, including neighbors. Was the moved three times? From the back yard to another location and then to the eventual dump site?

[Kat4Eagles]

I've been mulling some of these things over. I actually think this case will never go to trial and she'll wrange some sort of a plea, but then there's a part of me that says the State of Florida had a plea deal on the table, and then removed it, and that they WANT to go to trial. She's stated she will NOT take a plea deal.

As for being on the the jury? Could I do it? Sure. I would toss out everything that I've heard and listen to the evidence. Clear Conscious about it. I would weigh the evidence appropriately.

If found guilty, I would have no trouble sending her to the needle. The sooner the better.


Thanx for your answer!!
I think this case is going to be extremely emotional and heartbreaking, if and when it gets under way.

I am reminded of the Peterson trial where some Jurors had to undergo therapy for post traumatic stress of dealing with the horror of Laci and Connor's remains and one particular juror suffered from many sleepless nites and nightmares.

I am glad you would be able to remain open and ojective, I think my emotions would cloud me from being able to be so fair.

:beer:

Kat

[Imperfect4]

Of all the despicable things this family has done to so many people, the lowlife attacks on the Grunds are unspeakable.

Here's this family who opens their heart to Casey. Their son has asked her to marry him. Even after the paternity test proves her to be a liar Jesse still wants to marry her. They take Caylee into their home and babysit her the first year of her life until finally Mr. Grund (probably feeling terribly) has to request Casey find other means of babysitting because, you know, he actually has a job and a family and a life to lead.

How many thanks did the Anthonys extend to the Grunds during this time. I'd say probably not many. More like none. Did they buy them gifts? Invite them over to dinner or barbeques, acknowledge them for all the lovely things they've done for their daughter and grandaughter? Unlikely.

And then. And then. Who do they accuse first of harming Caylee? Why the Grund family of course!

So sick.

Someone here the other day said the Anthonys thought the Grunds were just chumps. That's what happens when nice people do good things for reprobates.

Oh, and where are my manners? Good morning, Imp! :seeya:

Good morning, sista summer!

Despite his kind heart, R. Grund is nobody's fool. So smart of him to insist on the paternity test.

And I suspect, after getting to know the rest of Casey's family, he might have further counseled Jesse about the advisability of marrying into it.

[Pam1569]

Great post Pam!
~snipped for space~~ refer to post #215
ITA with your assessment! I think KC may have spent some time between the 20th and 27th trying to get the smell out of the car ... and finally abandoned it for good around the 27th? not sure on that but I still find it hard to understand how someone could smell the decomposing of their toddler, knowing she murdered her and put her in the trunk, and be able to drive around with that constant reminder of what she did! Even after she dumped Caylee's body, she seemed more bothered about others smelling the car and getting caught than the events that caused the smell! Unbelievable!

Now that is pure evil !! :cursing:

H denjet, I still in no way can figure that out at all. She is a creature of some sort just have not figured out what species yet. :tonguewag:

[desmom]

Did I read the FBI report wrong?

If I'm reading it correctly, the plastic bags that were found with parts (sorry I have to put it that way) of Caylee don't match the plastic bags from the residence? Someone please correct me if I'm reading it wrong.

It basically said that no conclusion could be made on Q71 vs. Q85 and Q86? And that there were no latent fingerprints on the pieces of separate plastic found in the laundry bag?

I noticed the FBI has more testing to do. They repeat that several times.

Also, although the pregnancy test was included in items received in this report, there wasn't anything said about the test results.

Also, it listed the hair mass but no results yet...

I would be surprised if they did match. IMO, Caylee was dumped in June and the bags from the A's were not taken into evidence in (I think) December.

jmo

[Sandy001]

Is there anyone at all who thinks Casey is innocent?

I certainly don't, the reason I am asking is that I am wondering how they are ever going to find 12 people in the entire world who will be able to keep an open mind about this case!!

Could you do it?
Could you sit and serve on this jury?
Could you just look at the evidence, and not be overwhelmed by the heartbreaking details of the case?
Could you look at pics of Caylee before and after and be able to remain
objective?
Could you return a fair verdict?

I could not do it.....there is no way they would ever be able to explain all the damaging evidence away to my satisfaction, Casey's behavior after Caylee went missing, and all the lies she has told.

I think this case will be long over before it ever actually enters a courtoom........so, could this actually help Casey.??.....if, someone wanted to argue that she was presumed guilty long before her right to a fair and impartial trial .
Agree?
Disagree?
And, is there anything that could be done about it?
Ex: gag order
Just wondering your thoughts!
Kat
I kNOW it is possible to find a jury that can suspend what they think of now and make a decision based on the information that is shown to them at trial. It's been done before.

A gag order at this point is useless and I don't think it can be used as it's a violation of the Sunshine Laws. I do think, however, that the attorney for the defense should be gagged as he is NOT helping his case in the slightest.

[sammy62]

Wasn't there a ticket in the name of ZG? I have to wonder whose address was on that infraction. LE would have that info. Supposedly a small payment was made on the ticket, then nothing. I just wonder if it's the ZG who is suing or the invisible ZG.

I'm behind...so sorry if this is answered. this is an interesting read on that subject.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2009/01/16/zenaida-gonzalez-annie-leigh-downing%E2%80%99s-excellent-adventure-zannie-and-annie-go-to-traffic-court/

[Kat4Eagles]

They could NEVER find 12 people to go along with innocent....all this defense is looking for is ONE juror that they may be able to sway (a weak link)...like in the PS case....then they walk away and Casey is on her own...and the defense got the publicity they wanted to captivate all the eyes of the bad guys out there...

If they should succeed, all it will mean is that Casey will be retried and found guilty...Casey will not be allowed out while the second case in pending....therefore I hink it safe to say that Casey is where she will be for the rest of her life.....

I wonder if the courts secured her "not guilty plea" just incase, after the trial...that Casey doesn't use the fact that she should have been told by her counsel to plea down to a lesser charge.....


I guess I am just worrying for nothing, it seems like such a slam dunk case, doesn't it?
Your last paragraph makes a good point too, that her plea is on record, so, she was aware of her choices.
Thank you !!
:)
Kat

[5boxersmom]

I agree. It would seem that the first hiding place was the back yard since the dogs hit on it. But for how long would she have been there before having been moved? Let's say the grave wax developed within two weeks instead of month (although that's probably too quickly) that would mean she was in the back yard for almost two weeks before moving her to the trunk. The stench in the yard would be noticed by everyone, including neighbors. Was the moved three times? From the back yard to another location and then to the eventual dump site?

I am still confused about the grave wax. The 16th to the 27th is only 11 days.

She dumped the car on the 27th.

Would decomp fluid left in the car produce grave wax?

jmo

[Tia]

I agree. It would seem that the first hiding place was the back yard since the dogs hit on it. But for how long would she have been there before having been moved? Let's say the grave wax developed within two weeks instead of month (although that's probably too quickly) that would mean she was in the back yard for almost two weeks before moving her to the trunk. The stench in the yard would be noticed by everyone, including neighbors. Was the moved three times? From the back yard to another location and then to the eventual dump site?


Do you think she could have got away with having her in the yard if she were "double bagged" like NG says? Maybe the smell would not have been so bad, for a little while anyway, then she put her in the trunk for a couple of days, then tossed her off the side of the road?

[Kat4Eagles]

I kNOW it is possible to find a jury that can suspend what they think of now and make a decision based on the information that is shown to them at trial. It's been done before.

A gag order at this point is useless and I don't think it can be used as it's a violation of the Sunshine Laws. I do think, however, that the attorney for the defense should be gagged as he is NOT helping his case in the slightest.


I like the idea of gagging the defense!!
:)
Kat

[Unleashed]

Good observation, LB! I agree with you. He doesn't realize that all he really needs to do is be obedient to Cindy, and his life will be just peachy.

I was going to say except for nobody will like him, but they don't anyway!

Why are you calling me bad names? I used Scope.:tonguewag:

JMO

[denjet]

Barbara exactly to my bold. No way in hades will it be a hung jury. They can hope for this but it isn't going to happen. Maybe that is what they have told the creature or maybe that they can get her entirely off but they are living in a fantasy world now.
Hi Pam! :wink:
I can't help but think the defense is trying to keep this in the national news and bring awareness to this case in areas where there is none or very little. I may be wrong, but I think the defense WANTS more people to know about the case in other areas of Florida making COV an impossible task, possibly having to settle on a location and then screaming about not having a impartial jury ....
Why else would pressers and conferences have to be on national TV as opposed to local ?

Another thing that makes me suspicious about what they're up to is Baez (way back) saying he wanted COV and the location to be kept secret until trial ?????? But then he was in the news blabbling about Miami ???? WTH ???

[AnniePie]

I was going to say except for nobody will like him, but they don't anyway!

Why are you calling me bad names? I used Scope.:tonguewag:

JMO

That is so true.

(I call you LB because I :wub: you.)

[Imperfect4]

Desmom...that was a good read. The "O" explanation got me.

Yesterday I made the mistake of Googling images of "adipocere." After the "O" explanation, I now understand what I was looking at in some of those photos. Yikes.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

snipped with respect

Another thing that makes me suspicious about what they're up to is Baez (way back) saying he wanted COV and the location to be kept secret until trial ?????? But then he was in the news blabbling about Miami ???? WTH ???

I don't find that suspicious at all.

I find it shows Baez' idiocy in all things involved in being a defense attorney.

[summer]

Good morning, sista summer!

Despite his kind heart, R. Grund is nobody's fool. So smart of him to insist on the paternity test.

And I suspect, after getting to know the rest of Casey's family, he might have further counseled Jesse about the advisability of marrying into it.

They seem to have an exceptional family dynamic, don't they? Jesse fully acknowledges his father's role as head of the family and his wisdom without losing his own identity. That takes inner strength. Jesse still holds his head up high and we've seen him speak with clarity and confidence. He listens but also has his own ideas and thoughts. They all have the grace of humility.

[Pam1569]

Hi Pam! :wink:
I can't help but think the defense is trying to keep this in the national news and bring awareness to this case in areas where there is none or very little. I may be wrong, but I think the defense WANTS more people to know about the case in other areas of Florida making COV an impossible task, possibly having to settle on a location and then screaming about not having a impartial jury ....
Why else would pressers and conferences have to be on national TV as opposed to local ?

Another thing that makes me suspicious about what they're up to is Baez (way back) saying he wanted COV and the location to be kept secret until trial ?????? But then he was in the news blabbling about Miami ???? WTH ???

Hi denjet :seeya: I would think that if the defense cries foul because of this the state would bring it to the judges attention that it has been the defense that has done this themselves and it would not be an appeal right either. jmo

[Imperfect4]

The first time I saw Cindy on tv almost a year ago I thought she was an abuser. Just a feeling I had.

jmo

Check! :seeya:

[AnnieBell]

Is there anyone at all who thinks Casey is innocent?

I certainly don't, the reason I am asking is that I am wondering how they are ever going to find 12 people in the entire world who will be able to keep an open mind about this case!!

Could you do it?
Could you sit and serve on this jury?
Could you just look at the evidence, and not be overwhelmed by the heartbreaking details of the case?
Could you look at pics of Caylee before and after and be able to remain
objective?
Could you return a fair verdict?

I could not do it.....there is no way they would ever be able to explain all the damaging evidence away to my satisfaction, Casey's behavior after Caylee went missing, and all the lies she has told.

I think this case will be long over before it ever actually enters a courtoom........so, could this actually help Casey.??.....if, someone wanted to argue that she was presumed guilty long before her right to a fair and impartial trial .
Agree?
Disagree?
And, is there anything that could be done about it?
Ex: gag order
Just wondering your thoughts!
Kat


When bozo along with ironside and the rest of the psycho bunch argue the inablility for their money maker,psychopathic individual can not possibly get a fair trial he is insulting each of us. He is attacking our credibility and character because this implies we lack the ability and IQ to make a determination based on the evidence provided whether psychopath is guilty or not. Yes there are going to be particulars that are going to be very emotional but we are capable to follow jury instruction given by the judge in determining guilt or not. If and when she is found guilty it will be based on the facts presented. So yeah I could sit on the jury and give her a fair trial and come to a conclusion of guilt or not. Defense attorneys need to put it to rest when whining that public opinion has already found their client guilty or denied the right of innocent until proven guilty. What about the defense attorneys who go out and put their own spin on the guilt or innocense of their client, making accusations of conspiracy's, pointing the finger of someone elses guilt instead, claims or charges of ulterior motives within LE or the prosecutors, or my client is being picked on or bullied. Rather than questioning a potential juror and his/her morals and ethics, let's start demanding these defense attorneys be held accountable for their own ethic and moral responsibilty. This c***** of claiming a defense attorney has the obligation to defend their client regardless and define this as being ethical is pathetic and goes against the definition of ethical.

[EverMoth]

Do you think she could have got away with having her in the yard if she were "double bagged" like NG says? Maybe the smell would not have been so bad, for a little while anyway, then she put her in the trunk for a couple of days, then tossed her off the side of the road?

Well, it would seem that, unless she were put in an airtight container, the fact that she was stuffed into a laundry bag and then a couple of garbage bags really wouldn't diffuse the smell much. The laundry bag did not close and the garbage bags were the cinch kind, right? They aren't airtight. Regular garbage smells bad even when it is in the bag.

As to 5boxermom's question - from what I understand, grave wax forms on the corpse, not on decomp fluid.

[denjet]

I would be surprised if they did match. IMO, Caylee was dumped in June and the bags from the A's were not taken into evidence in (I think) December.

jmo
Hi desmom!
I wasn't expecting those bags to match what the Ants had at their house in December ... what I was disappointed with in the reports was no mention of the comparison between the crime scene ones and the one that Cindy handed to OSCO in mid-July ... the one that Cindy put stuff from the car in ...

Has anyone seen results of this comparison?

[Imperfect4]

My bold

Where does the grave wax figure in with the 2.5 days in the trunk. Grave wax takes 30 days to accumulate on the corpse, although it could be quicker in warm weather from what I understand. I don't think it would be that quick tho. So, if the paper towels found in the trunk had grave wax on them it either indicates that Caylee was in the trunk for a lot longer or she was moved into the trunk well after decomp set in - well after. I'm not sure how the grave wax fits in but it was found on the paper towels in the trunk. And it does take quite awhile to form on the corpse.

The question, in my mind, is whether decomp residue either from Casey's hands or the trunk carpet could turn into grave wax on the paper towels over a period of time?

[5boxersmom]

Check! :seeya:

Hey you. :biggrin:

Talking about check fraud charges on Fox News.

[Chardonnay]

I have a question. If there is one juror that finds her not guilty, and she gets a retrial, does she keep her same defense team, or does a new on come on board?

[trich]

Nothing happened on 7/22. The text was sent on 7/22. Jesse was asking if they had saved their ticket stubs to show they did go to PR.

IMO, Jesse spent a lot times with the A's the lst week or so after Caylee was reported missing. He probably overheard Cindy and/or George discussing Casey's friends going to PR July 8 - 15, wondering why they all had separate flights and "one of them took Caylee to PR" scenarios.

Ok thanks.
I misunderstood....thinking something happened on 7/22 which of course is after the fact.
I had thought of that a while back...that all of those kids had better have alibis from June 15 and until they found the body.
I am sure they will try and say Jessie or Amy or another put the body
in the woods after Casey was arrested.

Yes I know with the way the vegitation had grow through the bones ...there should be plenty of proof that the body had been in the woods since June.
But the defense is going to try and say that someone else killed Caylee and threw her body in the woods while Casey was in jail.

[Imperfect4]

I saved that one... page 30 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Anthony%20pgs%202751-2800%20f.pdf

Casey Lazzaro, Casey M. Lazzaro, Casey Anthony Lazzaro, Casey M. Anthony Lazzaro

She clearly wasn't interested in trying out her child's name with the Lazarro surname. :angry:

[5boxersmom]

Hi desmom!
I wasn't expecting those bags to match what the Ants had at their house in December ... what I was disappointed with in the reports was no mention of the comparison between the crime scene ones and the one that Cindy handed to OSCO in mid-July ... the one that Cindy put stuff from the car in ...

Has anyone seen results of this comparison?

I think there was a report about those in one of the doc drops. I can't remember.

[imc_e]

Yesterday I made the mistake of Googling images of "adipocere." After the "O" explanation, I now understand what I was looking at in some of those photos. Yikes.

Ya big mistake.

But I noticed that on June 22nd there was a question posed to a specialist on the subject regarding this case.

Question with an Answer.

Scroll to the bottom..

http://writersforensicsblog.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/dead-folks-and-decay/#comments

[EverMoth]

The question, in my mind, is whether decomp residue either from Casey's hands or the trunk carpet could turn into grave wax on the paper towels over a period of time?

I "think" grave wax is something that forms on the actual corpse. It has to do with fatty tissue or some such gross thing.

definition:
Grave wax, or adipocere, is a crumbly white, waxy substance that accumulates on those parts of the body that contain fat - the cheeks, breasts, abdomen and buttocks. It is the product of a chemical reaction in which fats react with water and hydrogen in the presence of bacterial enzymes, breaking down into fatty acids and soaps. Adipocere is resistant to bacteria and can protect a corpse, slowing further decomposition. Adipocere starts to form within a month after death and has been recorded on bodies that have been exhumed after 100 years. If a body is readily accessible to insects, adipocere is unlikely to form.

[denjet]

Hi denjet :seeya: I would think that if the defense cries foul because of this the state would bring it to the judges attention that it has been the defense that has done this themselves and it would not be an appeal right either. jmo

Exactly, and I'm sure every appearance by the defense team and the Ants are being noted and will come back to bite them ... I hoping it may even be cause for NO COV because of their publicizing the case ... IMO :wink:

[Tia]

Well, it would seem that, unless she were put in an airtight container, the fact that she was stuffed into a laundry bag and then a couple of garbage bags really wouldn't diffuse the smell much. The laundry bag did not close and the garbage bags were the cinch kind, right? They aren't airtight. Regular garbage smells bad even when it is in the bag.

As to 5boxermom's question - from what I understand, grave wax forms on the corpse, not on decomp fluid.

I just wonder the bags kept the smell down enough for her to have moved Caylee a couple of times without alerting anyone. If Caylee was in the yard, where the dogs hit, she obviously moved her and was able to keep her in the yard for a period of time without being caught. The smell may not have reached its worse level until she put her in the trunk and most likely left her in there for a couple of days.

Ugh, I just read up on grave wax....you are right, it forms on the corpse not decomp.

[Kat4Eagles]

When bozo along with ironside and the rest of the psycho bunch argue the inablility for their money maker,psychopathic individual can not possibly get a fair trial he is insulting each of us. He is attacking our credibility and character because this implies we lack the ability and IQ to make a determination based on the evidence provided whether psychopath is guilty or not. Yes there are going to be particulars that are going to be very emotional but we are capable to follow jury instruction given by the judge in determining guilt or not. If and when she is found guilty it will be based on the facts presented. So yeah I could sit on the jury and give her a fair trial and come to a conclusion of guilt or not. Defense attorneys need to put it to rest when whining that public opinion has already found their client guilty or denied the right of innocent until proven guilty. What about the defense attorneys who go out and put their own spin on the guilt or innocense of their client, making accusations of conspiracy's, pointing the finger of someone elses guilt instead, claims or charges of ulterior motives within LE or the prosecutors, or my client is being picked on or bullied. Rather than questioning a potential juror and his/her morals and ethics, let's start demanding these defense attorneys be held accountable for their own ethic and moral responsibilty. This c***** of claiming a defense attorney has the obligation to defend their client regardless and define this as being ethical is pathetic and goes against the definition of ethical.

Excellent argument for a fair trial, I see now there are fewer reasons to worry.

The defense may be able to play around with the "undetermined cause of death" and may attempt unsucessfully to suggest the body was moved, but that is all they will have to work with...........and, it won't be enough.......

Thank you, Annie!!
:)
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I have a question. If there is one juror that finds her not guilty, and she gets a retrial, does she keep her same defense team, or does a new on come on board?

Would you want the same defense team?
:lol:
Seriously, that is a good question, though!!
Kat

[grammaw]

Sorry in advance...I just....can't....help myself...must...re-post...picture...crying...laughing...can't....stop ....

http://media.photobucket.com/image/casey%20anthony%20tattoo/bigmouthshelly/kcbozo-1.jpg

This is her future! LOL Thank you for indulging me - I won't post it again....

OMG,that is sooooo funny!I love it!!

[trich]

Hi desmom!
I wasn't expecting those bags to match what the Ants had at their house in December ... what I was disappointed with in the reports was no mention of the comparison between the crime scene ones and the one that Cindy handed to OSCO in mid-July ... the one that Cindy put stuff from the car in ...

Has anyone seen results of this comparison?

If I am not mistaken the bag that was in the trunk was from
TonE's .(empty pizza box etc)
I think they said it had his garbage in it.
Does anyone remember if they checked the bags that the body and other items were in with what TonE had then in his apartment?
But I don't always buy the same garbage bags when I buy them so like it has been mentioned from June to December is quite awhile to be on same roll or box of bags.
But they do have same type of laundry bag found with body and in the house right?

[Chardonnay]

Would you want the same defense team?
:lol:
Seriously, that is a good question, though!!
Kat

Oh Duh... I don't know what I was thinking... :blushing:
I just thought they might try a different tactic..

[grammaw]

Would you want the same defense team?
:lol:
Seriously, that is a good question, though!!
Kat

What I worry the most about is getting one of those,as one poster put it"Rouge"jurors!!Want the fame more than Justice!

[trich]

Would you want the same defense team?
:lol:
Seriously, that is a good question, though!!
Kat

In the Spector trial when they had a hung jury and retried him
it was different attorneys.
Of course it did not do him any good ...since he was convicted
in his second trial.
I am so glad the prosecution tried him again.

[FeelinFroggy617]

Maybe you're right. I thought they both made the comment. What they said about Zenaida sounded so rehearsed they almost used identical words.

I just think the whole concept of "rating" someone on their looks is absolutely ridiculous! Seriously... how many of us talk about someone and rate them?? The whole family is just a train wreck. Just not sure who is the caboose in this family!!! JMO

[Imperfect4]

What did you think of Blink's theory on the swim diaper and the shorts?

Swimmies are new to me. We only had huggies and pampers when my kids were babies. I did not realize they came in colors.

The shorts theory is very interesting.

jmo

I thought that whole part was fascinating, des. Gets us back to pool questions and really makes me wonder, once again, exactly under what conditions Caylee died.

[AnniePie]

Sorry in advance...I just....can't....help myself...must...re-post...picture...crying...laughing...can't....stop ....

http://media.photobucket.com/image/casey%20anthony%20tattoo/bigmouthshelly/kcbozo-1.jpg

This is her future! LOL Thank you for indulging me - I won't post it again....

The best thing about her pork cheesie addiction is that there will be more, more, more room to tatoo. :smile:

[seeing_eye]

My bold

Where does the grave wax figure in with the 2.5 days in the trunk. Grave wax takes 30 days to accumulate on the corpse, although it could be quicker in warm weather from what I understand. I don't think it would be that quick tho. So, if the paper towels found in the trunk had grave wax on them it either indicates that Caylee was in the trunk for a lot longer or she was moved into the trunk well after decomp set in - well after. I'm not sure how the grave wax fits in but it was found on the paper towels in the trunk. And it does take quite awhile to form on the corpse.

According to my understanding (which may or may not be right), grave wax can form within 30 days, not that it takes 30 days to form. Plus, I think I recall reading somewhere that decomp material could have been wiped onto the paper towels and the grave wax could have formed while sitting in the trunk at the tow yard.

[AnnieBell]

I agree Scampi.

I am sure the last these kids wanted to do was go to the A's and discuss all their activities for the past 30 days. Kudos to all of them for stepping up and trying to help.

And for Cindy to set in LE interviews and spew her garbage about they are all into drugs and have connections to make people disappear..... :cursing:

jmo

Lightbulb moment here. If Cindy felt this way about the friends then why didn't she step in and protect that baby,

[desmom]

My bold

Where does the grave wax figure in with the 2.5 days in the trunk. Grave wax takes 30 days to accumulate on the corpse, although it could be quicker in warm weather from what I understand. I don't think it would be that quick tho. So, if the paper towels found in the trunk had grave wax on them it either indicates that Caylee was in the trunk for a lot longer or she was moved into the trunk well after decomp set in - well after. I'm not sure how the grave wax fits in but it was found on the paper towels in the trunk. And it does take quite awhile to form on the corpse.

I have learned more about adipocere since Friday's doc dump than I wanted to know. Yuk!

Anywho.. IMO, the 30 days to accumulate is for an adult.

I read articles about it developing quicker in women and children because of higher body fat; adipocere formation is slower to develop on a body in a plastic bag, but will develop faster on a clothed body in a plastic bag; the moisture content in the soil and temp also plays a role in the development; adipocere is more prominent in the buttocks and cheeks; it can be seen by the naked eye in as few as 2 weeks, but could take 2 months....

IMO, because the way the bones were scattered and the believe scavengers were involved in the scattering of her bones, the adipocere was minimal.

jmo

[summer]

Lightbulb moment here. If Cindy felt this way about the friends then why didn't she step in and protect that baby,

Ding! Ding! Ding!

[kelloggirl]

There have to have been pictures taken at the scene where they found the body as well as pictures taken before the autopsy. I think Spitz is just spewing lies like all the rest of them. I also don't think he has actually seen the body at all - just pictures. The defense is going to have a long road to convince jurors that there was no tape on the body. I have faith in the prosecution and absolutely none in the lie-spewing defense. A good prosecutor can rip holes through what Spitz claims.

BTW, Defense experts always lie to the media. It's what they are paid to do. Always remember, the job of LE and the ME is to find the TRUTH, not to convict someone - at least not at this stage. They go where the evidence leads them and the evidence at all points has led right back to Casey Anthony. Don't forget that all they really knew when the body was found was that it was a child.

moo

I know any logical person knows this, but I get so angry because it is so OUTRAGEOUS that the defense is in insinuating that OSCO, the FBI, and the Orlando Medical's Examiner's office are so desperate to hang Casey that they conspired to cruelly desecrate the remains of an infant that they didn't even know was Caylee by wrapping duct tape around a a deceased child's skull. All of these people should be SO ASHAMED of themselves. I get defense tactics and desperation, but there should be a line that ethics won't let them cross. Nothing Baez says or does suprises me, but I expect better from a supposedly unbiased scientific expert like Dr. Spitz, even if the defense is putting dollars in his pocket.

:cursing:

[sammy62]

The best thing about her pork cheesie addiction is that there will be more, more, more room to tatoo. :smile:

I heard a commedian once talking about that cute rose bud you have on your breast...becomes a long stem rose when you age. :tonguewag:

[imc_e]

According to my understanding (which may or may not be right), grave wax can form within 30 days, not that it takes 30 days to form. Plus, I think I recall reading somewhere that decomp material could have been wiped onto the paper towels and the grave wax could have formed while sitting in the trunk at the tow yard.


Thats what I have read too seeing.

Within 30 days especially in a moist environment and it forms quicker on a small child because of the fat.

[EverMoth]

According to my understanding (which may or may not be right), grave wax can form within 30 days, not that it takes 30 days to form. Plus, I think I recall reading somewhere that decomp material could have been wiped onto the paper towels and the grave wax could have formed while sitting in the trunk at the tow yard.


I looked it up and found out that grave wax forms on the corpse. It is a waxy substance that takes about 30 days to form. It can protect the corpse. It does not form on decomp fluid. It could have formed on Caylee's body either before or after she was in the trunk. I wish the TH's would talk about this. No one has mentioned it.

[denjet]

If I am not mistaken the bag that was in the trunk was from
TonE's .(empty pizza box etc)
I think they said it had his garbage in it.
Does anyone remember if they checked the bags that the body and other items were in with what TonE had then in his apartment?
But I don't always buy the same garbage bags when I buy them so like it has been mentioned from June to December is quite awhile to be on same roll or box of bags.
But they do have same type of laundry bag found with body and in the house right?
Hi trish!
I was talking about the black ones used to bag up Caylee and the one Cindy (inadvertantly) gave to OSCO with stuff from the car in it ... the one in Tony's trunk was a white kitchen bag IIRC

[Imperfect4]

Ya big mistake.

But I noticed that on June 22nd there was a question posed to a specialist on the subject regarding this case.

Question with an Answer.

Scroll to the bottom..

http://writersforensicsblog.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/dead-folks-and-decay/#comments

Interesting! Thanks! I guess that answers my question about whether decomp material could convert to grave wax on a paper towel.

[seeing_eye]

Does anyone else wonder just how many times Crazy has told boyfriends she is pregnant? I bet it is many, many times...nothing screams out desperation like "oops, I think I'm pregnant" and nothing garners more of the undivided attention she so blatantly wanted - hell, craved!

Remember how upset she got at that one party when she saw some old boyfriend there - she immediately stormed away crying and blubbering hysterically...she wanted people to run after her..."what's wrong, sweetie....what's wrong?!?"

And then she told her friends that she had lost the baby (on Valentine's Day - the ultimate day for her imaginary miscarriage)... Women with mental illness do this every day - it is clinical...please pass the DVM-IV we're gonna need another diagnosis for yet another of her many Sybil-like personality disorders...sure is crowded up in her head...lol

If Casey was screaming "Wolf!" -- er-- I mean "Pregnancy!" every time she turned around, why did she remain silent and even denied being pregnant the one time she was actually pregnant? That doesn't make much sense. (But whoever said an Anthony made sense?)

[EverMoth]

I have learned more about adipocere since Friday's doc dump than I wanted to know. Yuk!

Anywho.. IMO, the 30 days to accumulate is for an adult.

I read articles about it developing quicker in women and children because of higher body fat; adipocere formation is slower to develop on a body in a plastic bag, but will develop faster on a clothed body in a plastic bag; the moisture content in the soil and temp also plays a role in the development; adipocere is more prominent in the buttocks and cheeks; it can be seen by the naked eye in as few as 2 weeks, but could take 2 months....

IMO, because the way the bones were scattered and the believe scavengers were involved in the scattering of her bones, the adipocere was minimal.

jmo

Thx for the additional info. Even it the grave wax was minimal, it still was found on paper towels within Casey's car. I feel this evidence is screaming loudly but I don't notice anyone taking note of it in the media.

[5boxersmom]

Interesting! Thanks! I guess that answers my question about whether decomp material could convert to grave wax on a paper towel.

Yeah mine too.

[Lapis]

Is there anyone at all who thinks Casey is innocent?

I certainly don't, the reason I am asking is that I am wondering how they are ever going to find 12 people in the entire world who will be able to keep an open mind about this case!!

Could you do it?
Could you sit and serve on this jury?
Could you just look at the evidence, and not be overwhelmed by the heartbreaking details of the case?
Could you look at pics of Caylee before and after and be able to remain
objective?
Could you return a fair verdict?

I could not do it.....there is no way they would ever be able to explain all the damaging evidence away to my satisfaction, Casey's behavior after Caylee went missing, and all the lies she has told.

I think this case will be long over before it ever actually enters a courtoom........so, could this actually help Casey.??.....if, someone wanted to argue that she was presumed guilty long before her right to a fair and impartial trial .
Agree?
Disagree?
And, is there anything that could be done about it?
Ex: gag order
Just wondering your thoughts!
Kat

I do think that they will be able to seat a jury that has not read as much about the case as the people on this board. I also think that alot of what we have read and seen will not be presented at trial so she will be able to get a fair trial. Alot of what we have seen can be argued either way. There is one fact that she will not be able to get around : 31 days

[Tia]

If Casey was screaming "Wolf!" -- er-- I mean "Pregnancy!" every time she turned around, why did she remain silent and even denied being pregnant the one time she was actually pregnant? That doesn't make much sense. (But whoever said an Anthony made sense?)

They are a very strange bunch. Every last one of them. I often wonder if they realize, (now that they are in the public eye and can watch themselves on TV), how silly they behave and how unlikeable they are.

[Imperfect4]

I know any logical person knows this, but I get so angry because it is so OUTRAGEOUS that the defense is in insinuating that OSCO, the FBI, and the Orlando Medical's Examiner's office are so desperate to hang Casey that they conspired to cruelly desecrate the remains of an infant that they didn't even know was Caylee by wrapping duct tape around a a deceased child's skull. All of these people should be SO ASHAMED of themselves. I get defense tactics and desperation, but there should be a line that ethics won't let them cross. Nothing Baez says or does suprises me, but I expect better from a supposedly unbiased scientific expert like Dr. Spitz, even if the defense is putting dollars in his pocket.

:cursing:

ITA, kg. (Good to see you, btw!)

If ethics won't stop them, maybe laws should be passed about what defense attorneys and experts can and cannot say in public venues about ongoing criminal investigations.

[5boxersmom]

I am reading the autopsy report again.

It says hair underneath the skull. So this does mean the duct tape was wrapped around the head right?

jmo

[summer]

I know any logical person knows this, but I get so angry because it is so OUTRAGEOUS that the defense is in insinuating that OSCO, the FBI, and the Orlando Medical's Examiner's office are so desperate to hang Casey that they conspired to cruelly desecrate the remains of an infant that they didn't even know was Caylee by wrapping duct tape around a a deceased child's skull. All of these people should be SO ASHAMED of themselves. I get defense tactics and desperation, but there should be a line that ethics won't let them cross. Nothing Baez says or does suprises me, but I expect better from a supposedly unbiased scientific expert like Dr. Spitz, even if the defense is putting dollars in his pocket.

:cursing:

This could be the case where the defense finally jumps the shark and truly disgusts people. The pendulum could swing back to more law and order times where LE is always right. Which is too bad because LE is not always right; we've seen corruption in the past. But the whole system is getting abused to the point that people are going to finally stand up and say ENOUGH. We're sick of this. We like our police departments and our States Attorneys and our FBI labs and you are SCUM.

Something like that. Everything is cyclical and I think this case might just make the public so sick and tired of defense tactics that reverberations will be felt for a long time to come.

That's what happens when good and fair concepts are abused. We go back to byzantine days for a while. It'll all sort itself out in the end, like everything else.

[Imperfect4]

Thx for the additional info. Even it the grave wax was minimal, it still was found on paper towels within Casey's car. I feel this evidence is screaming loudly but I don't notice anyone taking note of it in the media.

I predict it shall be a future *BOMBSHELL!* once NG gets past the multiple strips of duct tape.

[Cynthia]

What did you think of Blink's theory on the swim diaper and the shorts?

Swimmies are new to me. We only had huggies and pampers when my kids were babies. I did not realize they came in colors.

The shorts theory is very interesting.

jmo

Hmmm....it has been bounced around that maybe she drowned Caylee in the pool. May be the day of the murder she told Caylee they were going for a swim then proceeded to drown her - would explain the diaper/swimmy. Most two year olds know routine and Caylee probably insisted she wear her diaper/swimmy. After dumping her little body Casey may have realized she forgot to include the shorts in the triple bagging and went and disposed of them after the fact. In her twisted thinking she may thought she had to keep the clothes she was last seen in with the body. I'm really reaching here...

[missinglink]

According to my understanding (which may or may not be right), grave wax can form within 30 days, not that it takes 30 days to form. Plus, I think I recall reading somewhere that decomp material could have been wiped onto the paper towels and the grave wax could have formed while sitting in the trunk at the tow yard.

That's the way I read it too, meaning that the grave wax could have formed on the decomp. I'm going to go back and read it again.

[EverMoth]

I predict it shall be a future *BOMBSHELL!* once NG gets over the multiple strips of duct tape.

:lol: I don't know why, but that hit my funny bone. NG is extremely disgusted and angered by the multiple strips, as we all are.

I hope you are right - the grave wax on paper towels in the trunk was a bombshell to me and I'm already 100% convinced of her guilt.

[AnnieBell]

I agree. It would seem that the first hiding place was the back yard since the dogs hit on it. But for how long would she have been there before having been moved? Let's say the grave wax developed within two weeks instead of month (although that's probably too quickly) that would mean she was in the back yard for almost two weeks before moving her to the trunk. The stench in the yard would be noticed by everyone, including neighbors. Was the moved three times? From the back yard to another location and then to the eventual dump site?

IMO that's where the report George filed regarding the stolen gas cans come into play. George discovered the missing cans on June 24th.

[Imperfect4]

This could be the case where the defense finally jumps the shark and truly disgusts people. The pendulum could swing back to more law and order times where LE is always right. Which is too bad because LE is not always right; we've seen corruption in the past. But the whole system is getting abused to the point that people are going to finally stand up and say ENOUGH. We're sick of this. We like our police departments and our States Attorneys and you are SCUM.

Something like that. Everything is cyclical and I think this case might just make the public so sick and tired of defense tactics that reverberations will be felt for a long time to come.

That's what happens when good and fair concepts are abused. We go back to byzantine days for a while. It'll all sort itself out in the end, like everything else.

... but not before I develop a drinking problem, apparently. :cursing:

I think as forensics testing gets better and more advanced, and juries get wise to the fact LE can and does make mistakes, LE and prosecutors will simply be forced to evolve toward more accuracy across the board when they bring cases to trial.

I'd like to know, though, what system of checks and balances is in place to insure accuracy on the part of defense teams? Seems the game for them, and it is indeed a game, serves the opposite purpose of a search for accuracy and the truth.

[kelloggirl]

The question, in my mind, is whether decomp residue either from Casey's hands or the trunk carpet could turn into grave wax on the paper towels over a period of time?

I read that section several times, and the way I interpreted the report implied that it could. However, you know how those scientific reports are written so as to not state anything very definitively, so it's possible that they are not 100% sure. Maybe they will do futher testing.

Speaking of the report, did anyone else notice that they also did testing using an actual 3-year old deceased little boy? These tests included duplication of air and chemical tests of the decomp fluids. The defense can't really strongly claim that there are no results from infants to compare the air to anymore. Bless him and his family for contributing to the search for justice for Caylee. :rose:

[denjet]

Hey you. :biggrin:

Talking about check fraud charges on Fox News.
Hi 5boxers!
What's the scoop? Anything new on it?

[Sun]

I'm so behind on my reading, but ran across the Blink article. ...whew, the "O" thing is something that is interesting. Of the Anthony family though, who has a medical background and might be familiar with something like this? The Discovery does indicate that Cindy's prints are not on the duct tape, but those strips of tape that were pictured, were severely weathered/worn.

[Imperfect4]

I am reading the autopsy report again.

It says hair underneath the skull. So this does mean the duct tape was wrapped around the head right?

jmo

I'm not sure about the complete wrapping thing after reading Blink.

The hair underneath the skull makes sense to me in any event, though ... as it fell away, that's where it landed.

[AnnieBell]

Excellent argument for a fair trial, I see now there are fewer reasons to worry.

The defense may be able to play around with the "undetermined cause of death" and may attempt unsucessfully to suggest the body was moved, but that is all they will have to work with...........and, it won't be enough.......

Thank you, Annie!!
:)
Kat

Gosh :blushing:

[5boxersmom]

Hi 5boxers!
What's the scoop? Anything new on it?

Hiya den

Nope nothing new.

[seeing_eye]

What did you think of Blink's theory on the swim diaper and the shorts?

Swimmies are new to me. We only had huggies and pampers when my kids were babies. I did not realize they came in colors.

The shorts theory is very interesting.

jmo

You must be younger than me. When my kids were little there were no huggies or pampers. All I had available were cloth diapers and couldn't afford a diaper service to launder them. I did try a "disposable" diaper once, but it was stiff like parchment paper so never tried it again. Sorry for the OT.

[denjet]

I predict it shall be a future *BOMBSHELL!* once NG gets past the multiple strips of duct tape.
Hi Imp!
NG was certainly emotional last night ... she was also stuck on the animal activity ... I'm so glad there's a show like hers that points out the horrendous facts in this case and others ... (even though sometimes she's a bit much) She must be doing something right if the Ants can't stand her!

[Imperfect4]

I'm so behind on my reading, but ran across the Blink article. ...whew, the "O" thing is something that is interesting. Of the Anthony family though, who has a medical background and might be familiar with something like this? The Discovery does indicate that Cindy's prints are not on the duct tape, but those strips of tape that were pictured, were severely weathered/worn.

I don't think a medical background would be necessary, Sun. I think Blink's theory is Casey was watching the "O" happen in real time.

[5boxersmom]

From the report.


It would be expected that decomposition of a small child in Fl. that is deposited in an outdoor environment during the summer months would have occured in less then a month and most likely within two weeks.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801734/detail.html

[denjet]

Hiya den

Nope nothing new.
Thanks! :seeya:
I had to make sure I didn't miss anything! :biggrin:

[summer]

... but not before I develop a drinking problem, apparently. :cursing:

I think as forensics testing gets better and more advanced, and juries get wise to the fact LE can and does make mistakes, LE and prosecutors will simply be forced to evolve toward more accuracy across the board when they bring cases to trial.

I'd like to know, though, what system of checks and balances is in place to insure accuracy on the part of defense teams? Seems the game for them, and it is indeed a game, serves the opposite purpose of a search for accuracy and the truth.

Unfortunately even the best intentioned, most honorable LE officers are humans and it's nearly impossible to achieve perfection every waking hour you're on the job. I'm sure they've improved and will always work toward getting better and better but it's a gargantuan task.

(I have to laugh because I'm extremely anti-authority and I sound like a law & order nut but whatev)

And no, it doesn't seem there are many checks and balances on the defense team!

It's all a game. People wonder how defense attorneys can handle certain cases (kind of like this one with Andrea Lyon) -- but it's play to win. No matter what.

As an aside, I used to work in advertising and it got to the point whether I was marketing a movie, or marketing a Lexus or marketing carpet tiles it didn't matter.

The concept remains the same, only the product changes. Easy peasy.

[summer]

Hi Imp!
NG was certainly emotional last night ... she was also stuck on the animal activity ... I'm so glad there's a show like hers that points out the horrendous facts in this case and others ... (even though sometimes she's a bit much) She must be doing something right if the Ants can't stand her!

All of your descriptions of that show last night had me LOL. I never did get to watch it but that was pretty funny reading about it here.

[denjet]

You must be younger than me. When my kids were little there were no huggies or pampers. All I had available were cloth diapers and couldn't afford a diaper service to launder them. I did try a "disposable" diaper once, but it was stiff like parchment paper so never tried it again. Sorry for the OT.
I'm not, seeing!
Those were the days! Cloth diapers and rubber pants ... :wink:

[Imperfect4]

Hi Imp!
NG was certainly emotional last night ... she was also stuck on the animal activity ... I'm so glad there's a show like hers that points out the horrendous facts in this case and others ... (even though sometimes she's a bit much) She must be doing something right if the Ants can't stand her!

Hi dj!

I often find NG hard to watch due to her dramatics (and snarkiness at times), but you have to admit, she keeps the focus RIGHT ON the damage done to the victims, and she also makes sure she keeps the human face on the subject when her experts get too deep into the technical or scientific.

I give her major props for that. It's too easy to either forget the victims, or begin to view them not really as human beings after awhile.

[EverMoth]

IMO that's where the report George filed regarding the stolen gas cans come into play. George discovered the missing cans on June 24th.

I'm not good at all with remembering dates, lots of details, etc. That's why I come here to read what all of you wonderful people post.

Anyway, so Casey dumps the body in the backyard on the 15th and it is there for about 9 days then. She then puts the body in the trunk and drives around with it until she freaks out and dumps it when George almost opens the trunk on that one day.

She must have been in the back yard long enough for the grave wax to form on the corpse. She probably got it on her hands when she triple bagged Caylee. Then she used paper towels to try and get the "stain" out after she dumped the body. In the process, she transferred the grave wax from her hands to the paper towels. Or maybe she just used the paper towels to get the grave wax off.

I'm getting sick to my stomach thinking about all of this.

Poor Caylee. :crying:

[kelloggirl]

I am reading the autopsy report again.

It says hair underneath the skull. So this does mean the duct tape was wrapped around the head right?

jmo

I think it's possible that the duct tape was wrapped far back enough to catch some hair that fell on the side of her face (like on her cheek), but not all the way wrapped around.

Another possibility, horrible as it is to think about, is that Caylee was fighting and shaking her head, and the duct tape got caught up in her hair in the struggle.

I have to admit, I don't really understand the pretzel-twisting and bending backwards to find implausible scenarios to place the duct tape on Caylee after death. Why is it so hard to believe that this cold and callous monster who did the worst thing possible to her daughter as it is suddenly cares about whether or not Caylee's mouth was open? She put her in a garbage bag, probably immediately after doing the deed, it's not like she had to look at her. Or why would she shy away from using whatever means she had at hand to do the deed and not draw attention to it?

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be harsh with those who are struggling to understand and believe someone can be that horrible, but I have just about had it with the defense and the Anthony's trying to do everything in their power to minimize the horror of what happened to Caylee so that the Odious Creature can go on her merry way to bake brownies, play hide the chorizo with Jose, wreak havoc on everyone's lives, and live happily ever after.

[Imperfect4]

Unfortunately even the best intentioned, most honorable LE officers are humans and it's nearly impossible to achieve perfection every waking hour you're on the job. I'm sure they've improved and will always work toward getting better and better but it's a gargantuan task.

(I have to laugh because I'm extremely anti-authority and I sound like a law & order nut but whatev)

And no, it doesn't seem there are many checks and balances on the defense team!

It's all a game. People wonder how defense attorneys can handle certain cases (kind of like this one with Andrea Lyon) -- but it's play to win. No matter what.

As an aside, I used to work in advertising and it got to the point whether I was marketing a movie, or marketing a Lexus or marketing carpet tiles it didn't matter.

The concept remains the same, only the product changes. Easy peasy.

Good point about LE being human. I was thinking more along the lines of those who decide on a perp and then make the evidence fit their opinion. It happens. But I think it will happen less often as juries get hip to it, and especially with advances in forensics, like DNA testing.

[Unleashed]

Sorry in advance...I just....can't....help myself...must...re-post...picture...crying...laughing...can't....stop ....

http://media.photobucket.com/image/casey%20anthony%20tattoo/bigmouthshelly/kcbozo-1.jpg

This is her future! LOL Thank you for indulging me - I won't post it again....

Please don't, ndy.
Every time I see the link, I click on it wondering which one it is.
Then I have to get yet another water, not to mention clean my keyboard. :laugh:

K<P

[MissElainyS]

Hmmm....it has been bounced around that maybe she drowned Caylee in the pool. May be the day of the murder she told Caylee they were going for a swim then proceeded to drown her - would explain the diaper/swimmy. Most two year olds know routine and Caylee probably insisted she wear her diaper/swimmy. After dumping her little body Casey may have realized she forgot to include the shorts in the triple bagging and went and disposed of them after the fact. In her twisted thinking she may thought she had to keep the clothes she was last seen in with the body. I'm really reaching here...

I don't see the cause of death being drowning at all. Why would Casey take the time to wrap Caylee's head with duct tape and place a heart sticker over her mouth and then drown her when it would be just as simple to just hold her little head under the water far enough down so that there would be minimal kicking and splashing and virtually silent.

I lean more toward either Casey took Caylee out of the house that night after arguing with Cindy, Casey lost her temper in the car when Caylee would not stop crying, pulled over to a remote area on the side of the road and wrapped her little head up in duct tape and then placed the sticker over her mouth and stood there watching Caylee suffocate to death still in a fit of temper. Seeing Casey's jailhouse temper tantrum makes me lean toward this theory.

The second is that after she fought with Cindy, she stormed into her room with Caylee by the arm, locked the door and in her fit of temper against her mother and this PITA child that she resented so much, wrapped Caylee's head in the duct tape to keep Cindy from hearing anything, stuck a heart shaped sticker on the tape over her mouth, Caylee then suffocates similar to Imette St. Gillien from the duct tape covering her mouth and nose, and Casey stuffs Caylee into the canvas laundry bag, throws the baby blanket over that, sneaks out of the house, and proceeds to drive around with a dead baby in the trunk. When George gets too close for comfort insisting that she open the trunk, she finds a place to dump little Caylee's body and parties hearty until she runs out of hallway, but that's another story for another day.

Not for one second do I believe either of George or Cindy's story about the last time they saw Caylee alive. George, Cindy and Lee know more than they are saying. The truth always prevails and it will come out sooner or later.

[imc_e]

Interesting! Thanks! I guess that answers my question about whether decomp material could convert to grave wax on a paper towel.

Also I am reading about toxicological analysis being pulled from adipocere.

:ohmy:

[Imperfect4]

I'm not, seeing!
Those were the days! Cloth diapers and rubber pants ... :wink:

Except when you accidentally stick the baby with the diaper pin ... and you know it before the baby does ... and you stand there helplessly and wait for her little face to crinkle up and the tears to come. :crying:

[EverMoth]

Hi dj!

I often find NG hard to watch due to her dramatics (and snarkiness at times), but you have to admit, she keeps the focus RIGHT ON the damage done to the victims, and she also makes sure she keeps the human face on the subject when her experts get too deep into the technical or scientific.

I give her major props for that. It's too easy to either forget the victims, or begin to view them not really as human beings after awhile.

Have you noticed that her "snarkiness" has gotten worse since the birth of the twins? She has these beautiful children who she obviously is in love with and completely adores. Yet she covers these grisley cases that involve murdering children. I've noticed since the twins came her outrage seems almost uncontainable. It's become like a personal vendentta to avenge these dead and abused children. She doesn't have a wit of tolerance for people on her panel that speak while wearing the "defense attorney" hat. Sometime I wonder if she is going to cross over completely, get up and walk off the set.

[5boxersmom]

The tape remained in place because it was adhered to the hair of the skull. Based on the position of the tape and mandible it can be inferred
that the mandible remained in this position because the tape held it in place prior to the hair forming into a matt on the base of the skull.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801867/detail.html

The base of the skull is in back of the head right?

[denjet]

Hi dj!

I often find NG hard to watch due to her dramatics (and snarkiness at times), but you have to admit, she keeps the focus RIGHT ON the damage done to the victims, and she also makes sure she keeps the human face on the subject when her experts get too deep into the technical or scientific.

I give her major props for that. It's too easy to either forget the victims, or begin to view them not really as human beings after awhile.
Exactly! When I get turned off by NG, I remind myself that at least SHE's keeping these missing persons and victims out there in the public and keeping public outrage strong ... I don't know of any other regular show on everyday that does it as well as she does ... I do believe her goal is justice ...

[Carol25]

Hmmm....it has been bounced around that maybe she drowned Caylee in the pool. May be the day of the murder she told Caylee they were going for a swim then proceeded to drown her - would explain the diaper/swimmy. Most two year olds know routine and Caylee probably insisted she wear her diaper/swimmy. After dumping her little body Casey may have realized she forgot to include the shorts in the triple bagging and went and disposed of them after the fact. In her twisted thinking she may thought she had to keep the clothes she was last seen in with the body. I'm really reaching here...
If Casey was really planning this, the swimmy would have been put on intentionally to catch the bodily fluids after she died. It would have been better than a plain diaper.

[Imperfect4]

Have you noticed that her "snarkiness" has gotten worse since the birth of the twins? She has these beautiful children who she obviously is in love with and completely adores. Yet she covers these grisley cases that involve murdering children. I've noticed since the twins came her outrage seems almost uncontainable. It's become like a personal vendentta to avenge these dead and abused children. She doesn't have a wit of tolerance for people on her panel that speak while wearing the "defense attorney" hat. Sometime I wonder if she is going to cross over completely, get up and walk off the set.

She makes me squirm ... mainly because I just don't feel it's necessary to talk to people the way she does. I realize it's her schtick, but yikes.

What I really find fascinating is there's a defense expert left who will agree to do her show! Is the 30 seconds of air time really worth the brow beating? :laugh:

[summer]

Just to annoy everyone the Anthonys will probably do a massive home renovation - build a MacMansion right there on Hopesprings drive. Everyone thinks we'll move - we'll show them - and that little HOA too!

[Sun]

Blink has an interesting theory on the shorts found on Suburban drive. Have the shorts been pictured in the Discovery that we have seen? I'm thinking that fabric of a little girls top could be quite different that fabric from shorts, thus maybe why one piece held up better to the elements/critters and even birds (nesting material). And, if the shorts were worn "over" a pullup, then may not have quite had the same type of exposure to the decompositional event as the top (maybe?).

[summer]

She makes me squirm ... mainly because I just don't feel it's necessary to talk to people the way she does. I realize it's her schtick, but yikes.

What I really find fascinating is there's a defense expert left who will agree to do her show! Is the 30 seconds of air time really worth the brow beating? :laugh:

Yah, it's gotten too theatrical for me too. Same schtick every night. Feh.

[Sun]

Bolding mine ...

Yes, I can. Business as usual for the Anthonys, imo.

I shouldn't try to ever think what they might do, or what they think. My brain just refuses to work that way. LOL

[EverMoth]

Blink has an interesting theory on the shorts found on Suburban drive. Have the shorts been pictured in the Discovery that we have seen? I'm thinking that fabric of a little girls top could be quite different that fabric from shorts, thus maybe why one piece held up better to the elements/critters and even birds (nesting material). And, if the shorts were worn "over" a pullup, then may not have quite had the same type of exposure to the decompositional event as the top (maybe?).

Talking about Caylee's clothing reminds me of when Casey said, in one of those jailhouse videos, "They haven't even found her clothes yet."

:mad:

[Carol25]

I shouldn't try to ever think what they might do, or what they think. My brain just refuses to work that way. LOL
Aren't you glad? :biggrin:

[MissElainyS]

If Casey was really planning this, the swimmy would have been put on intentionally to catch the bodily fluids after she died. It would have been better than a plain diaper.

Except there's one problem. A soaking wet swimmy holds zippo.

[Carol25]

Except there's one problem. A soaking wet swimmy holds zippo.
Oh. :blushing:

[seeing_eye]

That's the way I read it too, meaning that the grave wax could have formed on the decomp. I'm going to go back and read it again.

Good. I had intended to go back and read too, but don't have time right now. Hope you found out before I get back so I don't have to read it again!

[Sun]

Just to annoy everyone the Anthonys will probably do a massive home renovation - build a MacMansion right there on Hopesprings drive. Everyone thinks we'll move - we'll show them - and that little HOA too!

I thank the Lord that the Anthonys don't live in my neighborhood. I do not think that they would find it a welcoming place to reside, if they were in my neighborhood.

[MissElainyS]

Oh. :blushing:

LOL, no need to be embarrassed. At least you are thinking on your toes and not buying into the Cindy story.

To the poster above, regarding the words "they haven't even found her clothes yet". That and "Don't worry, I haven't said anything" has bothered me ever since they came out of her mouth.

[Imperfect4]

The tape remained in place because it was adhered to the hair of the skull. Based on the position of the tape and mandible it can be inferred
that the mandible remained in this position because the tape held it in place prior to the hair forming into a matt on the base of the skull.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801867/detail.html

The base of the skull is in back of the head right?

Not sure exactly what you're asking, but ...

According to Blink, she (he?) doesn't think the tape was wrapped all the way around Caylee's head. If I go with that, I can envision the strips of tape long enough to flatten the hair around her face, with the ends maybe fixed behind her ears. As decomp progressed, the hair slipped back and down the skull, eventually stopping at the base of her skull (in the back of her head, yes). So the tape would've slipped down a bit with the hair, but the jawbone would still be held in its original position. The base of my skull is in line with the bottom of my ears and the start of my jawbone, more or less.

Am I making any sense? :confused:

[Sun]

Talking about Caylee's clothing reminds me of when Casey said, in one of those jailhouse videos, "They haven't even found her clothes yet."

:mad:

You wouldn't happen to have an idea about which jail video this was.... I would love to listen to it one more time, but hate the thought of listening to several videos just to find it. LOL.... I just can't take that today.

[summer]

I thank the Lord that the Anthonys don't live in my neighborhood. I do not think that they would find it a welcoming place to reside, if they were in my neighborhood.

Gee, yes. Neighbors are so important. Community is so important. Having a toxic neighbor on your block really impacts your quality of life. It's horrible. :mad:

[summer]

You wouldn't happen to have an idea about which jail video this was.... I would love to listen to it one more time, but hate the thought of listening to several videos just to find it. LOL.... I just can't take that today.

It wasn't a jail video IIRC, Sun. I think it was one of Leonard's recounting of something Tracy told him when she was in the Anthony home.

[Carol25]

LOL, no need to be embarrassed. At least you are thinking on your toes and not buying into the Cindy story.

To the poster above, regarding the words "they haven't even found her clothes yet". That and "Don't worry, I haven't said anything" has bothered me ever since they came out of her mouth.
The "Don't worry, I haven't said anything" is a real mystery to me, too! I would love to know what it is. My first thought was that Cindy or Casey has a mental illness that Cindy didn't want exposed.

And thank you for making me feel better! :smile:

[MissElainyS]

Not sure exactly what you're asking, but ...

According to Blink, she (he?) doesn't think the tape was wrapped all the way around Caylee's head. If I go with that, I can envision the strips of tape long enough to flatten the hair around her face, with the ends maybe fixed behind her ears. As decomp progressed, the hair slipped back and down the skull, eventually stopping at the base of her skull (in the back of her head, yes). So the tape would've slipped down a bit with the hair, but the jawbone would still be held in its original position. The base of my skull is in line with the bottom of my ears and the start of my jawbone, more or less.

Am I making any sense? :confused:


If the tape is as you said, it would not have held the jaw in place the way it did. The only way that could possibly happen is if the duct tape went clear around her head. I think that Nancy Grace has seen the photos of the duct tape and that is why from day one that they found the remains, she has been screaming about duct tape being wrapped around Caylee's head. I think this is the reason why she played that clip of Conway last night spewing about how the media has lied about there being anything stuck to duct tape and in the beginning just after they found the remains, we had Baez on the news spewing about how there was no duct tape and that the media (and insinuating that the State) was lying. I think Nancy has seen and I think she knows.

[summer]

Oh. :blushing:

Don't feel bad - I'd be terrified to even mention the word *diaper* here because I've never had children and never babysat one either. I'm literally childproof. At least you tried. :biggrin: :laugh:

[Imperfect4]

I shouldn't try to ever think what they might do, or what they think. My brain just refuses to work that way. LOL

Just imagine living with someone you don't trust, who you lie to regularly, who lies to you regularly, and leisure time is spent trying to figure out what lies you've been told, and how you have been or will be hurt by those lies, and how you will take your revenge.

Voila! The House of Anthony.

[5boxersmom]

Not sure exactly what you're asking, but ...

According to Blink, she (he?) doesn't think the tape was wrapped all the way around Caylee's head. If I go with that, I can envision the strips of tape long enough to flatten the hair around her face, with the ends maybe fixed behind her ears. As decomp progressed, the hair slipped back and down the skull, eventually stopping at the base of her skull (in the back of her head, yes). So the tape would've slipped down a bit with the hair, but the jawbone would still be held in its original position. The base of my skull is in line with the bottom of my ears and the start of my jawbone, more or less.

Am I making any sense? :confused:

Yeah, just trying to figure out how far around the tape went. :biggrin:

[ish]

Except when you accidentally stick the baby with the diaper pin ... and you know it before the baby does ... and you stand there helplessly and wait for her little face to crinkle up and the tears to come. :crying:

off topic did you slide the diaper pin thru your hair first? my mother taught me that trick, I guess the oils in your hair helped the pin glide thru the diaper more smoothly. Off course sometimes I'd stick the pin in my scalp especially in the middle of the night!!

Back to topic, I don't think we will ever know the exact set of circumstances that led to Caylee's death, was it a culmination of many days or months of rage within Casey or a white hot flash of temper? I can see it just as easily being one as the other.

[MissElainyS]

The "Don't worry, I haven't said anything" is a real mystery to me, too! I would love to know what it is. My first thought was that Cindy or Casey has a mental illness that Cindy didn't want exposed.

And thank you for making me feel better! :smile:

Rule number one. Never feel bad on a message board. That being said, I think that there were secrets in that household that are dark and sick and Cindy was eluding to something sinister in that house. Did you ever notice during the televised memorial how when Lee said that he would never tell the secret when he was talking to "CMA" and kissing his bracelet, how Cindy got that look of knowing on her face and then starts petting his back like a puppy? Oddball. Isn't it?

[EverMoth]

It wasn't a jail video IIRC, Sun. I think it was one of Leonard's recounting of something Tracy told him when she was in the Anthony home.


:blushing: Oops. My bad. My memory sure isn't what it used to be.

[Imperfect4]

Talking about Caylee's clothing reminds me of when Casey said, in one of those jailhouse videos, "They haven't even found her clothes yet."

:mad:

What was that stupid remark about, I wonder? Her clothes were in the bags with her, from what I understand.

[Sun]

It wasn't a jail video IIRC, Sun. I think it was one of Leonard's recounting of something Tracy told him when she was in the Anthony home.

Whew! I just am not going to torture myself then. You are probably right though, LP could very well have said that, IIRC also.

[Carol25]

Don't feel bad - I'd be terrified to even mention the word *diaper* here because I've never had children and never babysat one either. I'm literally childproof. At least you tried. :biggrin: :laugh:
Thank you. I'm in the wrong generation. We used rubber over pants with cloth diapers!

[Sun]

Just imagine living with someone you don't trust, who you lie to regularly, who lies to you regularly, and leisure time is spent trying to figure out what lies you've been told, and how you have been or will be hurt by those lies, and how you will take your revenge.

Voila! The House of Anthony.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[EverMoth]

Rule number one. Never feel bad on a message board. That being said, I think that there were secrets in that household that are dark and sick and Cindy was eluding to something sinister in that house. Did you ever notice during the televised memorial how when Lee said that he would never tell the secret when he was talking to "CMA" and kissing his bracelet, how Cindy got that look of knowing on her face and then starts petting his back like a puppy? Oddball. Isn't it?

Yes, I have felt all along that there were some hideous family secrets. Terrible enough for Casey to blackmail her parents into covering up Caylee's death, for instance. I now believe that everyone in that family is involved.

I also believe that Casey is getting ready to throw them under the bus. C and G sought immunity; everyone, including Lee, lawyered up right away. Something is SO not right. Scams, incest and criminal endeavors are possibilities that come to mind. Who IS Caylee's father? This has never seen the light of day for some odd reason. There are so many possibilites in terms of horrible secrets that this family harbors. Right up Andrea Lyon's alley.

[Lavinia]

I was wrong. Not a gun. Can't tell what it is. See my post for pic.

jmo

Hey 5B :seeya:! I thought it was a gun, too. I though it was the butt of a gun and it was made to look like it was peeking out of where your pants might go... :confused:

[Carol25]

Rule number one. Never feel bad on a message board. That being said, I think that there were secrets in that household that are dark and sick and Cindy was eluding to something sinister in that house. Did you ever notice during the televised memorial how when Lee said that he would never tell the secret when he was talking to "CMA" and kissing his bracelet, how Cindy got that look of knowing on her face and then starts petting his back like a puppy? Oddball. Isn't it?
How strange! Why would he even mention "the secret" when he was on television? Just to let the OC know?

Now this is going to bug me all day! It has to be a biggie!

[trich]

Thank you. I'm in the wrong generation. We used rubber over pants with cloth diapers!

Yes I did the same with my kids.
The best thing they ever did for motherhood was "disposable diapers" lol

[Lavinia]

What did you think of Blink's theory on the swim diaper and the shorts?

Swimmies are new to me. We only had huggies and pampers when my kids were babies. I did not realize they came in colors.

The shorts theory is very interesting.

jmo

Hey Des. :seeya: The shorts deteriorating faster than the shirt (or is it the other way around?) doesn't alarm me at all. Depending on the weight of the materials, the fiber content and the age of the material all has a lot to do with it's deterioration. Doesn't bother me in the least.

I know 9-10 years ago, when we were still doing diapers/pull ups, we had some with characters on them like the ones Blink has on her site. That was mostly on the pull-ups.

[imc_e]

2005 Interview with Dr Baden where he discusses obtaining toxicology from adipocere.

http://www.hbo.com/autopsy/baden/qa_11.html

There is some information about obtaining DNA from a adipocere sample to determine the extent of degradation / decomposition.

http://www.science.uts.edu.au/des/StaffPages/BoydDent/shari.html

But I'm not into chemistry so jmo.:scared:

[5boxersmom]

Ok if I am reading this right........ It was like grave wax but not quite. Recent decomposing tissue has higher Oleic Acid because it has not had time to convert.

From report.....


This implies that the conversion of Oleic Acid could have occured during the month the car was sitting in the summer heat.


http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/06/19/6551.6591.pdf

[Tia]

I'm not good at all with remembering dates, lots of details, etc. That's why I come here to read what all of you wonderful people post.

Anyway, so Casey dumps the body in the backyard on the 15th and it is there for about 9 days then. She then puts the body in the trunk and drives around with it until she freaks out and dumps it when George almost opens the trunk on that one day.

She must have been in the back yard long enough for the grave wax to form on the corpse. She probably got it on her hands when she triple bagged Caylee. Then she used paper towels to try and get the "stain" out after she dumped the body. In the process, she transferred the grave wax from her hands to the paper towels. Or maybe she just used the paper towels to get the grave wax off.

I'm getting sick to my stomach thinking about all of this.

Poor Caylee. :crying:

Thats what I was wondering earlier and asked here, could she have kept Caylee in the yard for 9 days with no smell?

[5boxersmom]

Hey 5B :seeya:! I thought it was a gun, too. I though it was the butt of a gun and it was made to look like it was peeking out of where your pants might go... :confused:

I know. I did too. This case has played havoc on my memory. :biggrin:

[5boxersmom]

What was that stupid remark about, I wonder? Her clothes were in the bags with her, from what I understand.

I have always wondered what Lee meant when he ask Casey if it was like the last time. :sneaky:

[missinglink]

Good. I had intended to go back and read too, but don't have time right now. Hope you found out before I get back so I don't have to read it again!

OK, I'm back. First, the paper towels were extracted to try and determine what could have attracted the flies to the paper towels (they were harbouring fly pupae). After the extraction, they found 4-6 major peaks, those being palmitic acid, stearic acid, oleic/cis-vaccenic acid, and myristic acid. It then goes on to say that the fatty acids listed above, that were detected, indicate a fat decomposition product LIKE adipocere (grave wax) present on the paper towels.

So, going by that, they found something LIKE grave wax, or they DID find grave wax. Since the oleic acid had started breaking down more, they said it could have occured during the month the car was sitting in the heat. The way I read it, if the car had been discovered much earlier, the oleic acid would have had a much higher percentage.

[Carol25]

Thats what I was wondering earlier and asked here, could she have kept Caylee in the yard for 9 days with no smell?
I don't know. That seems hard to believe when you think of the hot Florida sun in June. They did have a dog with a heightened sense of smell, too. Remember, the animals in the woods seemed to find her easily with triple bagging.

[Unleashed]

How strange! Why would he even mention "the secret" when he was on television? Just to let the OC know?

Now this is going to bug me all day! It has to be a biggie!

I still think CMA means Cover My (Posterior). Meaning Lee's posterior.

I believe Lee knows a great deal, and he was indicating to the OC that she has to keep up the charade.

JMO

[Cynthia]

How strange! Why would he even mention "the secret" when he was on television? Just to let the OC know?

Now this is going to bug me all day! It has to be a biggie!

Always said when Lee said CMA it stood for Cover My A$$....

[Cynthia]

I still think CMA means Cover My (Posterior). Meaning Lee's posterior.

I believe Lee knows a great deal, and he was indicating to the OC that she has to keep up the charade.

JMO

oops...we posted at the same time Unleashed...:tonguewag:

[Carol25]

Always said when Lee said CMA it stood for Cover My A$$....
I would tend to agree with you. They think they are so clever. :rolleyes:

[Tia]

Yes, I have felt all along that there were some hideous family secrets. Terrible enough for Casey to blackmail her parents into covering up Caylee's death, for instance. I now believe that everyone in that family is involved.

I also believe that Casey is getting ready to throw them under the bus. C and G sought immunity; everyone, including Lee, lawyered up right away. Something is SO not right. Scams, incest and criminal endeavors are possibilities that come to mind. Who IS Caylee's father? This has never seen the light of day for some odd reason. There are so many possibilites in terms of horrible secrets that this family harbors. Right up Andrea Lyon's alley.


I think you could be right. That could be why Geo, Cindy and Lee seem so afraid of her.

And that is an excellent point you bring up.......who IS Caylee's Father??!! It would be so nice if her daddy were around to stand up for her since the Anthony's are too self-absorbed.

[Lavinia]

I think it's possible that the duct tape was wrapped far back enough to catch some hair that fell on the side of her face (like on her cheek), but not all the way wrapped around.

Another possibility, horrible as it is to think about, is that Caylee was fighting and shaking her head, and the duct tape got caught up in her hair in the struggle.

I have to admit, I don't really understand the pretzel-twisting and bending backwards to find implausible scenarios to place the duct tape on Caylee after death. Why is it so hard to believe that this cold and callous monster who did the worst thing possible to her daughter as it is suddenly cares about whether or not Caylee's mouth was open? She put her in a garbage bag, probably immediately after doing the deed, it's not like she had to look at her. Or why would she shy away from using whatever means she had at hand to do the deed and not draw attention to it?

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be harsh with those who are struggling to understand and believe someone can be that horrible, but I have just about had it with the defense and the Anthony's trying to do everything in their power to minimize the horror of what happened to Caylee so that the Odious Creature can go on her merry way to bake brownies, play hide the chorizo with Jose, wreak havoc on everyone's lives, and live happily ever after.

:beer::beer:

[gogo]

I always assumed the Anthonys' were Italian. the phrase representing her own culture. anyone know? Hi!

Nah, I think Casey really liked him and would have ripped Cindy's face off if she said anything about her TonE!

It seemed like Casey was changing her whole persona for TonE. Even the Tattoo being in Italian. She seems the type that molds herself to be whatever her current friend or boyfriend wants. Like Gumby.

[EverMoth]

Thats what I was wondering earlier and asked here, could she have kept Caylee in the yard for 9 days with no smell?

Possibly but, imo, it wouldn't disguise it much. If I cook a chicken at home and throw raw bits of it into the garbage, within a couple of days it would stink to high heaven. Covering it with another garbage bag doesn't help because it is decompsing flesh. Earlier I stated that, IMO, the body would have had to be put in an airtight container in order to avoid the smell. The laundry bag Caylee was stuffed into had two handles and no drawstrings. The garbage bags were the tie type, iirc, but any type of garbage bag leaves an opening at the top. Raw chicken bits is really small scale compared with an entire body decomping.

How could the family not have noticed that a corpse was in their back yard for 9 days? I DO think the entire family knew about it at some point but not that early on. Otherwise I don't think Cindy would have mentioned the dead body in the car on the 911 call.

[nanieliz]

Here is video of Kathi Belich sparring with Baez :drool: after Friday's hearing http://www.wftv.com/video/19802341/index.html He needs a few :punch:



yea,kathie!!!! i hope she is a thorn in his side every time he speaks. :tonguewag: he said kathie wasn't well thought of....bull s#it!!! GO KATHI BELICH...WE THE PEOPLE LOVE YOU!

nanieliz----jmo

[Lavinia]

I always assumed the Anthonys' were Italian. the phrase representing her own culture. anyone know?

I thought they were Italian, too, and often wondered where the Irish love comes from. :confused:

[enigma™]

Thats what I was wondering earlier and asked here, could she have kept Caylee in the yard for 9 days with no smell?

I do not think so, Tia. The summer heat would have intensified any decomposition and odor associated with it. Having visited FL now and again, I can recall the stench from chicken bones/skin after just a couple hours in the trash. It is not pleasant. Decomposing flesh of any kind would wreak. MUO

[EverMoth]

I think you could be right. That could be why Geo, Cindy and Lee seem so afraid of her.

And that is an excellent point you bring up.......who IS Caylee's Father??!! It would be so nice if her daddy were around to stand up for her since the Anthony's are too self-absorbed.

. . .unless her father is someone within the Anthony family. . . .

[Unleashed]

oops...we posted at the same time Unleashed...:tonguewag:

Thats cuz we're goooddd! :tonguewag:

JMO

[5boxersmom]

I thought they were Italian, too, and often wondered where the Irish love comes from. :confused:

Maybe Caylee's father is/was Irish?

jmo

[Chardonnay]

Going back for a second, regarding when Casey said, "They haven't even found her clothes yet", well I YouTubed it, and the site was taken down! I wonder why and my whom? It looks like it was on NG.
Does anyone know how to go back to 12/30 on NG's site and see if it's there?


YouTube - Nancy Grace Dec.30_Caylee Anthony case news_Part 3Nancy Grace Dec.30_Caylee Anthony case news_Part 3. ... Remember Casey stated, "they haven't even found her clothes yet" Could there have been a white bag ...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S-uQKNYN-s - Similar

[imc_e]

The presence of adipocere indicates that the post mortem interval is at least weeks ..imo

WHAT are the chances that Casey had Caylee's body in the trunk of that car, right up until she abandoned it at Amscot?

(I know air tests show 2.5 days but that is vague and she could have been placed in the trunk at the point of 2.5 days decomposition , later disposed in the woods, JUST before she dumped the car)

It actually fits.

If she was killed on June 15th and car was dumped on or about June 27th , is approx. 12 days.

All my opinion.

[gogo]

the show is discussed w/producers and guests before broadcasting. They expect the umbrage, and sometimes even smile. It is part of the stchick. It is fake reality. They allow Nancy to insult and berate. It is an act. all contrived. Her discussing the animal activity over and over ? I question her motive. I find it disgusting . It makes her appear two faced. Have you noticed that her "snarkiness" has gotten worse since the birth of the twins? She has these beautiful children who she obviously is in love with and completely adores. Yet she covers these grisley cases that involve murdering children. I've noticed since the twins came her outrage seems almost uncontainable. It's become like a personal vendentta to avenge these dead and abused children. She doesn't have a wit of tolerance for people on her panel that speak while wearing the "defense attorney" hat. Sometime I wonder if she is going to cross over completely, get up and walk off the set.

[EverMoth]

The presence of adipocere indicates that the post mortem interval is at least weeks ..imo

WHAT are the chances that Casey had Caylee's body in the trunk of that car, right up until she abandoned it at Amscot?

(I know air tests show 2.5 days but that is vague and she could have been placed in the trunk at the point of 2.5 days decomposition later disposed in the woods JUST before she dumped the car)

It actually fits.

That's what I think. She was driving around with it in her trunk all that time. UNIMAGINEABLE! Then, when George wanted to open the trunk, Casey became irritated, wouldn't let him near it and that's when I think she dumped the body.

[Tia]

Possibly but, imo, it wouldn't disguise it much. If I cook a chicken at home and throw raw bits of it into the garbage, within a couple of days it would stink to high heaven. Covering it with another garbage bag doesn't help because it is decompsing flesh. Earlier I stated that, IMO, the body would have had to be put in an airtight container in order to avoid the smell. The laundry bag Caylee was stuffed into had two handles and no drawstrings. The garbage bags were the tie type, iirc, but any type of garbage bag leaves an opening at the top. Raw chicken bits is really small scale compared with an entire body decomping.

How could the family not have noticed that a corpse was in their back yard for 9 days? I DO think the entire family knew about it at some point but not that early on. Otherwise I don't think Cindy would have mentioned the dead body in the car on the 911 call.

Wrapped that way, I agree, they would notice after 9 days. Maybe Casey had her in something else first?

[101Spots]

the show is discussed w/producers and guests before broadcasting. They expect the umbrage, and sometimes even smile. It is part of the stchick. It is fake reality. They allow Nancy to insult and berate. It is an act. all contrived. Her discussing the animal activity over and over ? I question her motive. I find it disgusting . It makes her appear two faced.

Th-th-th-th-that's entertainment, folks!

HLN should change their call letters to HLE. They have totally sold out.

[Carol25]

Wrapped that way, I agree, they would notice after 9 days. Maybe Casey had her in something else first?
The sand box? It did have a tight cover didn't it? Was it a turtle? However, the turtle would have left such a stench...unless Gand C went out and bought a new one...

[EverMoth]

The sand box? It did have a tight cover didn't it? Was it a turtle?

That's an interesting idea. If it did have a tight cover that might have masked the smell to some degree. Was that near the playhouse or the area the dogs hit on?

[Carol25]

That's an interesting idea. If it did have a tight cover that might have masked the smell to some degree. Was that near the playhouse or the area the dogs hit on?
Next to it I think. Boy, if that is what happened, G and C could be in for big trouble!

[gogo]

I mentioned to my dtr recently, while watching images of Caylee, "I wonder if Caylee looked like her father?" I have always wondered. I am sure Casey has had this discussion with Cindy and George. I would ask my dtr. I don't think Caylee looks like Casey. Maybe Caylee's father is/was Irish?

jmo

[EverMoth]

Next to it I think. Boy, if that is what happened, G and C could be in for big trouble!

Yep. There is a reason why they received immunity early on. They all lawyered up real quick too.

[JHP]

The sand box? It did have a tight cover didn't it? Was it a turtle? However, the turtle would have left such a stench...unless Gand C went out and bought a new one...

I do think it's possible that G&C did go out and at least buy new contents for the sandbox. Sand included. Cindy took a week off work in that time. I think she was busy covering up. I hope LE has looked at all the A's purchases for that month.

JMO

[Unleashed]

The sand box? It did have a tight cover didn't it? Was it a turtle? However, the turtle would have left such a stench...unless Gand C went out and bought a new one...


What turtle?
I vewwy confuzzled.:blink:


JMO

[crimeq]

I remember (vaguely) some discussion earlier that the tattoo was misspelled, if she meant to have the Italian version. Should have been a t, ended up a d, or vice-versa.

Wasn't it supposed to match some movie star's tattoo?

[101Spots]

Wasn't it supposed to match some movie star's tattoo?

Yes, if you consider the vacant bimbos (Britney, Lindsey, Paris, et al.) "movie stars."

[margaritaville]

So back in March Casey is researching how to kill her daughter....
The "big fight" on the 15th, [ the hair that broke the camels back]
Gave "Casey" the
reason to go through with it......

Or did she??? What if this was a master plan to frame Casey.....What if everything we know to be true...Really isn't??
What if Cindy did this and framed Casey?? without even GA knowing about it......
What an ultimate revenge....Sounds to me like CA was very upset after leaving the nursing home and finding out that
Casey was stealing from her parents....Maybe CA was sick of Casey and didn't want to be "bothered" by raising Caylee....
We all know that CA had been talking with co-workers about Casey's behavior and having to watch Caylee all the time.
We know what Cindy thought of Casey..[Cindy told Jesse exactly what she thought of Casey.]

(To me Ca is just as sick in the head as KC) the only thing that doesn't support this theory is the decomp in the car.....
Although how long was it that Casey was driving TL's Jeep? Where was her car at the time??

I know this is WAY out there..But I keep wondering how they could pin this on Cindy......
This is my theory of how they could....MOO

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Anthony%20pgs%202751-2800%20f.pdf

pg 49 and 50

When searching for the word "chloroform" within the Excel spreadsheet, it was discovered that Internet searches were conducted by a user using Google search engine. That spreadsheet was filtered for Google searches only. On Monday, March 17, 2008 between the hours of 13:43:41 and 13:55:34, Google searches were conducted for the words "chloraform", "alcohol", "acetone", and "Peroxide". On Friday, March 21, 2008 between the hours of 14:16:30 and 14:28:18, Google searches were conducted for "how to make chloraform", how to make chloroform" [spelled correctly], "self defense", "household weapons", "neck breaking, and the word "shovel"

In addition to the Google searches, Wikipedia searches were conducted on March 17, 2008 between the hours of 13:53:25 and 13:58:38 for the words "inhalation", "chloroform", Alcohol", "Acetone", "peroxide", "hydrogen peroxide"' and "death". Also, on Friday, March 21, 2008 between the hours of 14:16:34 and 14:28:26 hours, a Wikipedia search was conducted for the word "shovel". Also on the 21st of March were searches using other web sources such as blogspot.com, sci-spot.com, druglibrary.org and instructables.com for the words "making weapons out of household products", "chloroformhabit", "chloroform"' "how to make chloroform", and "chloro2".
Mozilla Firefox and Safari Internet browsers were also being used on the laptop computer. the history.dat files for the user "bobby"were imported into Netanalysis and examined for the same search terms as for the HP computer. None were noted.

[Carol25]

What turtle?
I vewwy confuzzled.:blink:


JMO
I thought the sandbox was in the form of a turtle and it has a top that goes on it. It fits on tightly. I had one for my grandchildren.

[nanieliz]

If Casey was really planning this, the swimmy would have been put on intentionally to catch the bodily fluids after she died. It would have been better than a plain diaper.


I know this is kinda hard to talk about but...I wonder if the pullup had any trace of urine or stool? I know tests probably were done but maybe not released yet.

NaieLiz-JMO

[seeing_eye]

Talking about Caylee's clothing reminds me of when Casey said, in one of those jailhouse videos, "They haven't even found her clothes yet."

:mad:

IIRC, Casey didn't say that in a jailhouse video. I think Padilla is the one who told of that statement, and I seem to recall it was supposedly said to someone while traveling in a LE car. I could be wrong.

[Carol25]

So back in March Casey is researching how to kill her daughter....
The "big fight" on the 15th, [ the hair that broke the camels back]
Gave "Casey" the
reason to go through with it......

Or did she??? What if this was a master plan to frame Casey.....What if everything we know to be true...Really isn't??
What if Cindy did this and framed Casey?? without even GA knowing about it......
What an ultimate revenge....Sounds to me like CA was very upset after leaving the nursing home and finding out that
Casey was stealing from her parents....Maybe CA was sick of Casey and didn't want to be "bothered" by raising Caylee....
We all know that CA had been talking with co-workers about Casey's behavior and having to watch Caylee all the time.
We know what Cindy thought of Casey..[Cindy told Jesse exactly what she thought of Casey.]

(To me Ca is just as sick in the head as KC) the only thing that doesn't support this theory is the decomp in the car.....
Although how long was it that Casey was driving TL's Jeep? Where was her car at the time??

I know this is WAY out there..But I keep wondering how they could pin this on Cindy......
This is my theory of how they could....MOO

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Anthony%20pgs%202751-2800%20f.pdf

pg 49 and 50

When searching for the word "chloroform" within the Excel spreadsheet, it was discovered that Internet searches were conducted by a user using Google search engine. That spreadsheet was filtered for Google searches only. On Monday, March 17, 2008 between the hours of 13:43:41 and 13:55:34, Google searches were conducted for the words "chloraform", "alcohol", "acetone", and "Peroxide". On Friday, March 21, 2008 between the hours of 14:16:30 and 14:28:18, Google searches were conducted for "how to make chloraform", how to make chloroform" [spelled correctly], "self defense", "household weapons", "neck breaking, and the word "shovel"

In addition to the Google searches, Wikipedia searches were conducted on March 17, 2008 between the hours of 13:53:25 and 13:58:38 for the words "inhalation", "chloroform", Alcohol", "Acetone", "peroxide", "hydrogen peroxide"' and "death". Also, on Friday, March 21, 2008 between the hours of 14:16:34 and 14:28:26 hours, a Wikipedia search was conducted for the word "shovel". Also on the 21st of March were searches using other web sources such as blogspot.com, sci-spot.com, druglibrary.org and instructables.com for the words "making weapons out of household products", "chloroformhabit", "chloroform"' "how to make chloroform", and "chloro2".
Mozilla Firefox and Safari Internet browsers were also being used on the laptop computer. the history.dat files for the user "bobby"were imported into Netanalysis and examined for the same search terms as for the HP computer. None were noted.
So you've been snooping in Baez's notes, huh? :laugh:

[summer]

The sand box? It did have a tight cover didn't it? Was it a turtle? However, the turtle would have left such a stench...unless Gand C went out and bought a new one...

Holy Toledo! :scared:

Wait... what turtle? :confused:

[bchand]

What turtle?
I vewwy confuzzled.:blink:


JMO

Something like this one Unleashed:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/Bettychand/turtle-sandbox-sandpit-green-with-l.jpg

[summer]

And I'm sure that the amount of money they receive for taking the insults and snarkiness makes it worth their while.

To some, maybe. Guess it depends what price you put on yourself. :crying:

[Sun]

I do think it's possible that G&C did go out and at least buy new contents for the sandbox. Sand included. Cindy took a week off work in that time. I think she was busy covering up. I hope LE has looked at all the A's purchases for that month.

JMO

From what I have been able to determine from the Discovery, George either quit or was fired and his last work day was June 30th. And, he has stated that he started his "new" job on July 14th. I've always wondered just how George kept himself busy, and how many "days off" he might have taken prior to June 30th. He sure is evasive about his work schedule when asked about it by LE/FBI.

[Carol25]

Something like this one Unleashed:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/Bettychand/turtle-sandbox-sandpit-green-with-l.jpg
right! Did she have one of those in the back yard? I thought she did. Forgive me if I am wrong.

[summer]

I thought the sandbox was in the form of a turtle and it has a top that goes on it. It fits on tightly. I had one for my grandchildren.

OOH. I thought Caylee maybe had a pet turtle. Or an imaginary pet turtle. Kinda like the imaginary squirrels plastered under the car.

[Cynthia]

So you've been snooping in Baez's notes, huh? :laugh:

LOL!!!!! good one....:thumbsup:

[summer]

I do think it's possible that G&C did go out and at least buy new contents for the sandbox. Sand included. Cindy took a week off work in that time. I think she was busy covering up. I hope LE has looked at all the A's purchases for that month.

JMO

Wow. Just wow. This is unbelievable.

[Carol25]

Holy Toledo! :scared:

Wait... what turtle? :confused:
Can anyone find a picture of their backyard again? It will show if they had a turtle sand box or not. I thought they did.

[bchand]

right! Did she have one of those in the back yard? I thought she did. Forgive me if I am wrong.

Yes she did. Even a heavier one IIRC. Greta lifted the lid when she was there and it didn't look very light to me.

[summer]

Can anyone find a picture of their backyard again? It will show if they had a turtle sand box or not. I thought they did.

I'm sure you're right Carol. I just never paid much attention. OMG.

[desmom]

Going back for a second, regarding when Casey said, "They haven't even found her clothes yet", well I YouTubed it, and the site was taken down! I wonder why and my whom? It looks like it was on NG.
Does anyone know how to go back to 12/30 on NG's site and see if it's there?


YouTube - Nancy Grace Dec.30_Caylee Anthony case news_Part 3Nancy Grace Dec.30_Caylee Anthony case news_Part 3. ... Remember Casey stated, "they haven't even found her clothes yet" Could there have been a white bag ...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S-uQKNYN-s - Similar


The lst news article I can find re: They haven`t even found the clothes she was wearing. was by WESH TV on 11/19 http://www.wesh.com/news/18009037/detail.html

Padilla was on NG the day before. It was an NG Bombshell:

And tonight, bombshell. We learn tot mom Casey Anthony, just before her final arrest, criticizes police and volunteer search efforts saying, quote, "They haven`t even found the clothes Caylee was wearing," clearly indicating tot mom knows Caylee not alive. Why would they find the clothes separate from the little girl? Think about it!

Here is a link to the transcript: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0811/18/ng.01.html

[Carol25]

OOH. I thought Caylee maybe had a pet turtle. Or an imaginary pet turtle. Kinda like the imaginary squirrels plastered under the car.
Lol! The way you reacted, I thought I solved the case! lol!

[margaritaville]

So you've been snooping in Baez's notes, huh? :laugh:


shhhhhhh... That was suppose to be a secret....:wink:

[bchand]

Can anyone find a picture of their backyard again? It will show if they had a turtle sand box or not. I thought they did.

I see the sandbox here but the lid isn't on it.

http://lefteyeonthemedia.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/anthony-back-yard-dig.jpg

[summer]

Lol! The way you reacted, I thought I solved the case! lol!

No, no, I think you HAVE SOLVED THE CASE. This is GENUIS!
:smile:

[5boxersmom]

Can anyone find a picture of their backyard again? It will show if they had a turtle sand box or not. I thought they did.

http://orlandosentinel.image2.trb.com/orlnews/media/photo/2008-10/42800728.jpg

I can't tell what it is.

[Carol25]

I see the sandbox here but the lid isn't on it.

http://lefteyeonthemedia.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/anthony-back-yard-dig.jpg

Ah, carp! That's not a turtle sand box. Sorry. Thought sure I saw one. Must have been in my dreams. It has to be green and have legs. That's not it at all.

[seeing_eye]

OK, I'm back. First, the paper towels were extracted to try and determine what could have attracted the flies to the paper towels (they were harbouring fly pupae). After the extraction, they found 4-6 major peaks, those being palmitic acid, stearic acid, oleic/cis-vaccenic acid, and myristic acid. It then goes on to say that the fatty acids listed above, that were detected, indicate a fat decomposition product LIKE adipocere (grave wax) present on the paper towels.

So, going by that, they found something LIKE grave wax, or they DID find grave wax. Since the oleic acid had started breaking down more, they said it could have occured during the month the car was sitting in the heat. The way I read it, if the car had been discovered much earlier, the oleic acid would have had a much higher percentage.

Thanks a bunch, Missing. Saved me having to go read those awful reports again.

[summer]

All this time, back and forth, could she have put the body in the yard for any length of time, not possible with family dogs reacting, etc. But replacing the sand in the turtle - well that's just diabolical and an extremely compelling theory!

[Lavinia]

IIRC Casey's birthday is near St. Patty's day, hence the fascination with Irish & shamrocks.

Well, I guess if you have no achievements of your own, you glom on to something close to your b-day to celebrate. :laugh:

[summer]

Ah, carp! That's not a turtle sand box. Sorry. Thought sure I saw one. Must have been in my dreams. It has to be green and have legs. That's not it at all.

Doesn't matter if it isn't a turtle. The theory still stands.

[Carol25]

http://orlandosentinel.image2.trb.com/orlnews/media/photo/2008-10/42800728.jpg

I can't tell what it is.
The sanbox is just a sand box. The picnic table could appear like a turtle.

[summer]

The sanbox is just a sand box. The picnic table could appear like a turtle.

Now the picnic table looks like a turtle? Carol you're losing me. :laugh:

[martha]

Hello everyone I have not had a computer for a long time the lighting got my computer and it is in the shop so I am trying to use a lap top ha,I am so far behind now after the storm.
well we really had 3 storms but we or all ok and I am so gald to be where I can check on what is happening to casey, I sure have missed you all. Do they know when they will have a trial? I guess it will be a long time. I don;t know much about this lap top but maybe I can catch up on the news by reading all your post. I guess casey is still in jail and I hope she stayes there the rest of her life. bye for now be back later all jmho

[seeing_eye]

That brought me out of lurkdom. :biggrin:

OMG, can you imagine these tattooed, pierced young-uns when they're in their 80's?? :scared:

[summer]

You know those pictures in magazines like National Geographic and nature programs on TV where a group of monkies would be grooming each other? That's what Cindy reminds me of. She grooms herself, she grooms George, she grooms Lee, she grooms anyone within grooming distance. Casey constantly grooms herself, too, her hair, her too-tight blouse, her hands, groom, groom, groom.

George does it too. In the tape made during one of the Anthonys' jailhouse visits, the one where Casey became irate, Cindy left her chair to go somewhere, God knows where, at one point. George started picking up things off of Cindy's chair while she was gone, and then when she came back, he picked something off of her back. Several somethings. I think they all have fleas.

It's quite annoying.

Pack o monkeys. I like it. :thumbsup:

[5boxersmom]

Here is the Greta video with the sandbox.


http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=2963763&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/caylee/index.html

[Carol25]

Doesn't matter if it isn't a turtle. The theory still stands.
This is probably silly, but do you see the platform with the umbrella on it in the Sentinel picture? Could that actually be the top of the sand box and it makes into a boat when it's not a sandbox? Or am I reaching?

[Buttoneyes]

I think it's possible that the duct tape was wrapped far back enough to catch some hair that fell on the side of her face (like on her cheek), but not all the way wrapped around.

Another possibility, horrible as it is to think about, is that Caylee was fighting and shaking her head, and the duct tape got caught up in her hair in the struggle.

I have to admit, I don't really understand the pretzel-twisting and bending backwards to find implausible scenarios to place the duct tape on Caylee after death. Why is it so hard to believe that this cold and callous monster who did the worst thing possible to her daughter as it is suddenly cares about whether or not Caylee's mouth was open? She put her in a garbage bag, probably immediately after doing the deed, it's not like she had to look at her. Or why would she shy away from using whatever means she had at hand to do the deed and not draw attention to it?

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be harsh with those who are struggling to understand and believe someone can be that horrible, but I have just about had it with the defense and the Anthony's trying to do everything in their power to minimize the horror of what happened to Caylee so that the Odious Creature can go on her merry way to bake brownies, play hide the chorizo with Jose, wreak havoc on everyone's lives, and live happily ever after.

:thumbsup: Thanks for saying what a lot of us are thinking! :thumbsup:

[nanieliz]

I'm wondering....did CASEY ever say what clothes Caylee was wearing when she"dropped"Caylee off???? George says"jean shorts/skort and white top"when she left.

I think Casey was waitting for George to leave so she could come back to house.

I too think she killed her in a rage. Shook her,strangled her,smothered her. I think she taped her mouth shut because it wouldn't stay closed.

My mom died last Aug.29th.We were home with hospice and they told me how to handle different parts of the death in case no one else was there. It happened while we were alone. I closed her eyes and held her chin so her mouth was closed till the nurse got there. Otherwise it would have gaped open till rigor passed.

Casey is very inmature and I think she was mad at Cindy and G.M.

Cindy can lie all she wants but she chocked Casey the 15th. Cindys mom says Cindy told her.

Nanieliz---JMO

[5boxersmom]

This is probably silly, but do you see the platform with the umbrella on it in the Sentinel picture? Could that actually be the top of the sand box and it makes into a boat when it's not a sandbox? Or am I reaching?

If you look here you will see the lid to the sandbox over by the fence it looks like it has dirt in it. Close to the umbrella you are talking about.

http://orlandosentinel.image2.trb.com/orlnews/media/photo/2008-10/42800728.jpg

[Carol25]

Here is the Greta video with the sandbox.


http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=2963763&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/caylee/index.html
So the sandbox does have a lid of its own.

[desmom]

Can anyone find a picture of their backyard again? It will show if they had a turtle sand box or not. I thought they did.

http://www.cayleemarieanthony.net/casey_anthony_murder_trial_places_of_interest.html

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedImages/Stories/Local/CAYLEE%20BACK%20YARD.jpg

close up at 4:28 on the clock http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=2963763&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,398490,00.html?sPage=fnc/ontherecord/caylee

[Carol25]

If you look here you will see the lid to the sandbox over by the fence it looks like it has dirt in it. Close to the umbrella you are talking about.

http://orlandosentinel.image2.trb.com/orlnews/media/photo/2008-10/42800728.jpg
Thanks, 5Boxersmom!

[5boxersmom]

I'm wondering....did CASEY ever say what clothes Caylee was wearing when she"dropped"Caylee off???? George says"jean shorts/skort and white top"when she left.

I think Casey was waitting for George to leave so she could come back to house.

I too think she killed her in a rage. Shook her,strangled her,smothered her. I think she taped her mouth shut because it wouldn't stay closed.

My mom died last Aug.29th.We were home with hospice and they told me how to handle different parts of the death in case no one else was there. It happened while we were alone. I closed her eyes and held her chin so her mouth was closed till the nurse got there. Otherwise it would have gaped open till rigor passed.

Casey is very inmature and I think she was mad at Cindy and G.M.

Cindy can lie all she wants but she chocked Casey the 15th. Cindys mom says Cindy told her.

Nanieliz---JMO

In Casey's statement to LE she said pink shirt and blue jean skort. Don't remember if she mentioned shoes. George did but if Casey didn't and since none were found with the remains that might be a :w00t: moment.

jmo

[nanieliz]

OMG, can you imagine these tattooed, pierced young-uns when they're in their 80's?? :scared:


I worked in a nursing home years ago...we had a lady about 90 with about 10 tats. Some were in interesting places.


nanieliz

[5boxersmom]

Thanks, 5Boxersmom!

YW. I looked and looked at that picture trying to find the lid. Then I couldn't believe I missed it. :biggrin:

[Chardonnay]

The lst news article I can find re: They haven`t even found the clothes she was wearing. was by WESH TV on 11/19 http://www.wesh.com/news/18009037/detail.html

Padilla was on NG the day before. It was an NG Bombshell:

And tonight, bombshell. We learn tot mom Casey Anthony, just before her final arrest, criticizes police and volunteer search efforts saying, quote, "They haven`t even found the clothes Caylee was wearing," clearly indicating tot mom knows Caylee not alive. Why would they find the clothes separate from the little girl? Think about it!

Here is a link to the transcript: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0811/18/ng.01.html

Thanks Des!! So even a lead investigater confirmed it? Was he with Casey or taking Padilla's word on it? :shrug:

"In the first information released regarding the 10 days Padilla spent with Anthony, he said her remarks rebutted what was being said on TV. A lead investigator confirms that during one of those trips, Anthony blurted out "They haven't even found the clothes she was wearing" about those searching for Caylee.

[Sandy001]

Hi denjet :seeya: I would think that if the defense cries foul because of this the state would bring it to the judges attention that it has been the defense that has done this themselves and it would not be an appeal right either. jmo

I would love to see Baez get smacked down for doing what he is doing. He certainly isn't helping his client any. I am sure he is going for a hung jury. That's OK with me, because they will retry Casey (with a different atty because Baez will disappear claiming he "won." A hung jury gives the prosecution time to tie up those pesky loose ends and present a more solid case the second time around.

[desmom]

I'm wondering....did CASEY ever say what clothes Caylee was wearing when she"dropped"Caylee off???? George says"jean shorts/skort and white top"when she left.

-- snipped --

page 29 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3868229/guide-to-casey-anthony-documents-orlando-sentinel

On the day of her disappearance, Caylee was wearing a pink shirt, with jean shorts, white sneakers and her hair was pulled back in a ponytail.

I think the shorts in pics 12-14 http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19106388/detail.html the ones found with the remains. jmo

[summer]

I'm thinking if Cindy and George bought new sand, even with cash, I bet a storekeeper would've contacted LE.

And then I'm thinking I remember they went to the BEACH around that time. Just the two of them. That always struck me as odd. I just don't see them doing that. But now I'm thinking... Beach... sand... :scared:

[5boxersmom]

page 29 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3868229/guide-to-casey-anthony-documents-orlando-sentinel

On the day of her disappearance, Caylee was wearing a pink shirt, with jean shorts, white sneakers and her hair was pulled back in a ponytail.

Oh man I could have swore one of them Casey or George said blue jean skort.

jmo

[*MoonRider*]

In Casey's statement to LE she said pink shirt and blue jean skort. Don't remember if she mentioned shoes. George did but if Casey didn't and since none were found with the remains that might be a :w00t: moment.

jmo
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/Caseyhandwritten.jpg

Casey's handwritten statements says "white sneakers".

[*Serenity*]

Oh man I could have swore one of them Casey or George said blue jean skort.

jmo

I don't ever recall hearing/reading Casey giving any information about what Caylee was wearing the last time she saw her / dropped her off with the Nanny.

[desmom]

Oh man I could have swore one of them Casey or George said blue jean skort.

jmo

I edited my posted to add

pics 12 - 14 http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19106388/detail.html I think are the shorts found with the remains. LE released these photos in a doc dump in April.

[Chardonnay]

page 29 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3868229/guide-to-casey-anthony-documents-orlando-sentinel

On the day of her disappearance, Caylee was wearing a pink shirt, with jean shorts, white sneakers and her hair was pulled back in a ponytail.

I think the shorts in pics 12-14 http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19106388/detail.html the ones found with the remains. jmo

But no shoes were found at the scene, right? Another one of Casey's "mistruths"...

[desmom]

But no shoes were found at the scene, right? Another one of Casey's "mistruths"...

I don't remember shoes in any of the evidence. jmo

[*Serenity*]

But no shoes were found at the scene, right? Another one of Casey's "mistruths"...

No backpack either-- wonder where the mystery missing backpack is.

[Imperfect4]

You know those pictures in magazines like National Geographic and nature programs on TV where a group of monkies would be grooming each other? That's what Cindy reminds me of. She grooms herself, she grooms George, she grooms Lee, she grooms anyone within grooming distance. Casey constantly grooms herself, too, her hair, her too-tight blouse, her hands, groom, groom, groom.

George does it too. In the tape made during one of the Anthonys' jailhouse visits, the one where Casey became irate, Cindy left her chair to go somewhere, God knows where, at one point. George started picking up things off of Cindy's chair while she was gone, and then when she came back, he picked something off of her back. Several somethings. I think they all have fleas.

It's quite annoying.

ROTFLMAO!!! :lol: :lol:

[happy2bme]

Oh man I could have swore one of them Casey or George said blue jean skort.

jmo

I also thought GA said that.

[desmom]

No backpack either-- wonder where the mystery missing backpack is.

IIRC, Cindy said on one of her many talk show interviews Caylee's backpack was in the car. George said the backpack in the car was not the one Caylee had the last time he saw her.

Sorry no links. I thought it was funny when I read it because their stories do not agree. Just more Anthonyisms.

jmo

[5boxersmom]

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/Caseyhandwritten.jpg

Casey's handwritten statements says "white sneakers".

Yes it does. Been so long since I read it I couldn't remember if she said shoes or not.

jmo

[margaritaville]

IIRC, Cindy said on one of her many talk show interviews Caylee's backpack was in the car. George said the backpack in the car was not the one Caylee had the last time he saw her.

Sorry no links. I thought it was funny when I read it because their stories do not agree. Just more Anthonyisms.

jmo

I believe there was a backpack in the car..But it didn't have monkeys on it....
I am sure cindy will explain how GA was mistaken about the monkey backpack and it actually was the one in the car.

MOO

[5boxersmom]

I also thought GA said that.

Maybe it was George.

[desmom]

Oh man I could have swore one of them Casey or George said blue jean skort.

jmo

Here ya go....page 10 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/georgeanthony%20aug4.pdf

A:Right. And I know she was dressed in her little uh, blue jean skirt, the white tennis shoes, um....

Q: Blue jean skirt.

A: Right. She had a pinkish color top. One of those uh, one has a sleeve on it. She had her little sunglasses on, they was white rim sunglasses...

[desmom]

I believe there was a backpack in the car..But it didn't have monkeys on it....
I am sure cindy will explain how GA was mistaken about the monkey backpack and it actually was the one in the car.

MOO

Oh, I am sure she will.

How the heck is she supposed hold this family together if they will not follow the script? :tonguewag:

[happy2bme]

IIRC, Cindy said on one of her many talk show interviews Caylee's backpack was in the car. George said the backpack in the car was not the one Caylee had the last time he saw her.

Sorry no links. I thought it was funny when I read it because their stories do not agree. Just more Anthonyisms.

jmo

IIRC, the one GA said he saw had monkeys on it. I can remember several posters trying to find similiar back packs on-line.

[5boxersmom]

Here ya go....page 10 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/georgeanthony%20aug4.pdf

A:Right. And I know she was dressed in her little uh, blue jean skirt, the white tennis shoes, um....

Q: Blue jean skirt.

A: Right. She had a pinkish color top. One of those uh, one has a sleeve on it. She had her little sunglasses on, they was white rim sunglasses...



Thank you des. Glad to know my mind has not gone completley. :biggrin:

One has a sleeve on it? What is that?

[5boxersmom]

IIRC, the one GA said he saw had monkeys on it. I can remember several posters trying to find similiar back packs on-line.

Yep white with monkeys. But Dora's sidekick is a monkey. Don't know if it is the same backpack though.

jmo

[happy2bme]

Here ya go....page 10 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/georgeanthony%20aug4.pdf

A:Right. And I know she was dressed in her little uh, blue jean skirt, the white tennis shoes, um....

Q: Blue jean skirt.

A: Right. She had a pinkish color top. One of those uh, one has a sleeve on it. She had her little sunglasses on, they was white rim sunglasses...

Thanks desmom. I thought GA said that.

[Sun]

I found everything became much, much more clear in regards to this case, when I ignored every single statement that every single Anthony made.

They are all liars. They have, and continue to try to mislead everyone.

[Unleashed]

I thought the sandbox was in the form of a turtle and it has a top that goes on it. It fits on tightly. I had one for my grandchildren.


Thank you. I thought we were getting back to burying dead pets again!

JMO

[summer]

I found everything became much, much more clear in regards to this case, when I ignored every single statement that every single Anthony made.

They are all liars. They have, and continue to try to mislead everyone.

Yes, you really go around in circles trying to analyze the actions and motives of imaginary people and events. Can't wait to see the Anthonys, every finger of that creepy hand, on the stand.