mary winkler claims former in-laws misused funds

[beattherap]

court case began today, 6/22---

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090622/NEWS03/90622031/1001/NEWS

[RootBeer]

The Grandparents should of had their own seperate collection for donations for their lawyer's fees without saying it is for the Winkler children.

[GossipGirl]

I agree. If it was set up as the Winkler family fund for the kids and she now has custody then they have to open the books and let her in. Also, they shouldn't have used that particular money to buy themselves lawyers. Unless they're OK with Mary submitting her bills to the fund.
I'll split the difference on the postings from the linked site, where locals to her say she's all about the FREE house, free cars etc she's getting, and those who say the opposite.
I do think she should be working, I don't know what's up with that.
GG

[bookie]

That woman sure has guts. She murdered their son then wants to whine about how they spent money donated after she shot her husband in the back!!!

[Tracian]

That woman sure has guts. She murdered their son then wants to whine about how they spent money donated after she shot her husband in the back!!!

A true sociopath...Mary Winkler should have served jail time.

[bookie]

A true sociopath...Mary Winkler should have served jail time.


Definitely. What she is doing now is disgusting and she really needs to be stopped.

[MyHope]

Hi ya beattherap!

Wow. I didn't think we would get to ever see the result of this what with all the gag orders, etc...

More than half the money spent on attorneys. Wow! And very little on the publically advertised use. I can't see how Dan can say this money was collected by the church and belongs to them. The website is taken down now but it clearly spelled out what the funds were to be used for. What they actually were used for doesn't fit into the stated goal of the fund. I said at the time and I say now. Dan Winkler is guilty imho of fraud.

[Details]

That woman sure has guts. She murdered their son then wants to whine about how they spent money donated after she shot her husband in the back!!!Yep! Disgusting case - sounded to me like the jury was so conservative the idea of wearing a wig and having sex was considered so perverted it justified killing your husband. Unbelievable.

[MyHope]

Yep! Disgusting case - sounded to me like the jury was so conservative the idea of wearing a wig and having sex was considered so perverted it justified killing your husband. Unbelievable.

You missed a lot. Details actually matter.

[Details]

You missed a lot. Details actually matter.I read and watched every single bit of that case and everything leading up to it. Details sure didn't seem to matter to the jury - not the full bladder, not any of the details that showed she was free to go where she pleased, not any detail about her job, not a thing about the total lack of evidence of any form of abuse. Just tales and innuendo from the defense - and she was off.

[MyHope]

I think its weird that somehow Dan is claiming these funds belong to the church he pastors. I looked at the Winkler Family Fund website many times before it was taken down and I do not recall that it said anything about the church or about using the money to hire attorneys. It clearly listed Eddie as trustee and clearly spelled out what the funds were for. $30K for "expert" testimony from Dr. Keith Ablow was not part of the list. Hmmmm..... I think Dan Winkler is a fraud.

[beattherap]

I think its weird that somehow Dan is claiming these funds belong to the church he pastors. I looked at the Winkler Family Fund website many times before it was taken down and I do not recall that it said anything about the church or about using the money to hire attorneys. It clearly listed Eddie as trustee and clearly spelled out what the funds were for. $30K for "expert" testimony from Dr. Keith Ablow was not part of the list. Hmmmm..... I think Dan Winkler is a fraud.
hey there :seeya:...

i admit to not remembering 2 funds: one from the church [huntingdon], one public [brentwood]...

i remember a fund for counseling, the children, college, trustee eddie...

i Want to have an opinion, but i can't until this 2-fund thing is clearer.

[GentleBreeze]

A true sociopath...Mary Winkler should have served jail time.

Winkler should have served at least 51 years.

She got away with cold blooded murder now she wants the money collected because she made her children fatherless.

She is some piece of work.:cursing:

Yes, Mary never intends on making a living on her own like many single mom's do.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I read and watched every single bit of that case and everything leading up to it. Details sure didn't seem to matter to the jury - not the full bladder, not any of the details that showed she was free to go where she pleased, not any detail about her job, not a thing about the total lack of evidence of any form of abuse. Just tales and innuendo from the defense - and she was off.

Exactly. You nailed it, Details.

[LisaM22]

court case began today, 6/22---

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090622/NEWS03/90622031/1001/NEWS

omg, she killed the children's father and she has the nerve to complain she did not get enough money from the fund after she won the custody battle? are we seeing a true motive for the fight for the children here? she should just consider herself lucky she got away with killing her husband with nothing more then a slap on the wrist imo

[LisaM22]

I'm sorry GB but MW wasn't convicted of cold blooded murder. Please be careful what you say.

OTOH I don't blame her one bit for trying to expose MW's family for who they really are. Or rather what they really are.

To the poster that thinks that a wig and hooker shoes are all this case was about, who watched every moment of this trial, I guess you forgot about the nightly rape this battered woman sustained. One can only take so much. I'd call this justifiable homicide if ever there was a case.

Sounds like MW had a good teacher, from stealing donation funds to learning to kite money. It's always the pastors isn't it?
MW deserves every dime of any money they collected in the name of those children, and her case.
I hope she wins this case with damages. This was a sad case, but clearly not many have learned about domestic violence from this case.
And that is not something I'm shocked to hear about. It's the silence of spousal abuse that is the silent killer. This time, the victim took the law into her own hands. She has paid her debt to society, so to continually bash her online in print is really horrible, and wrong. Mary PAID her debt to society, and justice, was served.

murder = a unlawful killing , are you saying her killing was lawful? did you forget she was found guilty of a unlawful killing

http://www.tfd.com/murder

[LisaM22]

she killed these poor people son and now is suing them, she is cold as can be, and some say she should be forgiven for her crimes :(

the man's parents should sue her for the unlawful killing of their son if you ask me

[LisaM22]

A true sociopath...Mary Winkler should have served jail time.

I agree 100%, suing the parents of the man you were found guilty of killing, that is a true sign of a sociopath

[LisaM22]

That woman sure has guts. She murdered their son then wants to whine about how they spent money donated after she shot her husband in the back!!!

yep, sounds to me like she thinks she deserves to profit from her crime, her ugly is coming out again, crazy

[LisaM22]

the grandparents used the funds to try and keep their grand children away from a convicted killer, a killer that was convicted of killing their son and she wants to sue them for the amount they spent trying to protect these children, how sick is that

[Leanne Weich]

the grandparents used the funds to try and keep their grand children away from a convicted killer, a killer that was convicted of killing their son and she wants to sue them for the amount they spent trying to protect these children, how sick is that

IMO what is sick is that the in-laws collected donations on the pretext of same being used for the welfare of their grandchildren and, quite clearly, to retain custody of them. Irrespective of whether one believes Mary received a just sentence or not, she stood trial, mounted her defence and served the sentence imposed upon her by the Court. Despite spending a fortune on trying to keep the kids, the in-laws still had to return custody to Mary and, imo, the donations should accompany them. I'm sure the vast majority of donors gave the funds to help the kids and it was speculated on this board and others that the in-laws were using the funds for purposes other than which they were intended. The senior Winklers should have instituted a wrongful death suit and not fraudulently tried to obtain a judgment against Mary by using money clearly intended for their grandchildren.

If Mary isn't working, she should get off her azz and find work pronto. I hope that any and all donated monies will be retained in a trust and administered by an honest and trustworthy trustee but I honestly don't think Mary is wrong in this instance. JMVHO.

[LisaM22]

IMO what is sick is that the in-laws collected donations on the pretext of same being used for the welfare of their grandchildren and, quite clearly, to retain custody of them. Irrespective of whether one believes Mary received a just sentence or not, she stood trial, mounted her defence and served the sentence imposed upon her by the Court. Despite spending a fortune on trying to keep the kids, the in-laws still had to return custody to Mary and, imo, the donations should accompany them. I'm sure the vast majority of donors gave the funds to help the kids and it was speculated on this board and others that the in-laws were using the funds for purposes other than which they were intended. The senior Winklers should have instituted a wrongful death suit and not fraudulently tried to obtain a judgment against Mary by using money clearly intended for their grandchildren.

If Mary isn't working, she should get off her azz and find work pronto. I hope that any and all donated monies will be retained in a trust and administered by an honest and trustworthy trustee but I honestly don't think Mary is wrong in this instance. JMVHO.

spending money to keep the children away from a convicted killer and one who killed their father is using the money for the children, how much would you spend to keep your grandchildren away from a convicted killer that killed your own son - simple as that, mary is wrong to be suing the children's grandparents and the parents of her victim - I do not think any jury will fault the grandparents for trying to protect the children - jmho

[Lady_Jean_La]

spending money to keep the children away from a convicted killer and one who killed their father is using the money for the children, how much would you spend to keep your grandchildren away from a convicted killer that killed your own son - simple as that, mary is wrong to be suing the children's grandparents and the parents of her victim - I do not think any jury will fault the grandparents for trying to protect the children - jmho

Well said. :thumbsup:

[FallenAngel♥]

I totally agree with what Mary's doing. I was abused and i can understand what Mary's going through. I hope she get every dime back for her girls.

[Leanne Weich]

spending money to keep the children away from a convicted killer and one who killed their father is using the money for the children, how much would you spend to keep your grandchildren away from a convicted killer that killed your own son - simple as that, mary is wrong to be suing the children's grandparents and the parents of her victim - I do not think any jury will fault the grandparents for trying to protect the children - jmho

Quite clearly the children didn't need that protection as they've been given back to Mary. Perhaps the court realised Mary is not a threat to her children and was only a threat to the man who was found to have abused her. The fact still remains that the trust fund did not state the money being collected was to attempt to deprive Mary from regaining custody of her children.

At the end of the day, the trust fund was for the benefit of the kids and, quite clearly, at this point in time, it has been decided that the best place for them is with their mom and, imo, the money should be available for the purpose for which it was intended.

[Leanne Weich]

I totally agree with what Mary's doing. I was abused and i can understand what Mary's going through. I hope she get every dime back for her girls.

ITA with you FA. As a fellow abuse victim I too understand what Mary's going through and hope that every cent that was donated will be returned to the trust fund and is administered for whatever needs the kids have or may have in the future.

[RayStar]

I'm sorry GB but MW wasn't convicted of cold blooded murder. Please be careful what you say.

OTOH I don't blame her one bit for trying to expose MW's family for who they really are. Or rather what they really are.

To the poster that thinks that a wig and hooker shoes are all this case was about, who watched every moment of this trial, I guess you forgot about the nightly rape this battered woman sustained. One can only take so much. I'd call this justifiable homicide if ever there was a case.

Sounds like MW had a good teacher, from stealing donation funds to learning to kite money. It's always the pastors isn't it?
MW deserves every dime of any money they collected in the name of those children, and her case.
I hope she wins this case with damages. This was a sad case, but clearly not many have learned about domestic violence from this case.
And that is not something I'm shocked to hear about. It's the silence of spousal abuse that is the silent killer. This time, the victim took the law into her own hands. She has paid her debt to society, so to continually bash her online in print is really horrible, and wrong. Mary PAID her debt to society, and justice, was served.
Great post. Sound advice with warning the poster about what they posted. Perhaps, the g/parents did not know they might have used the funds incorrectly.

[LisaM22]

Quite clearly the children didn't need that protection as they've been given back to Mary. Perhaps the court realised Mary is not a threat to her children and was only a threat to the man who was found to have abused her. The fact still remains that the trust fund did not state the money being collected was to attempt to deprive Mary from regaining custody of her children.

At the end of the day, the trust fund was for the benefit of the kids and, quite clearly, at this point in time, it has been decided that the best place for them is with their mom and, imo, the money should be available for the purpose for which it was intended.

quite clearly she is a convicted killer, that will never change, I hope the kids will be ok living with her, that remains to be seen, how long did there dad live with her before her ugly came out? I see no problem with the grandparents using the money to try and stop a convicted killer that killed their son from getting custody of their grandchildren, that is EXACTLY the kinda thing that money is for, as for the rest of the fund, i think it should be set up as a college fund for the children

[LisaM22]

Great post. Sound advice with warning the poster about what they posted. Perhaps, the g/parents did not know they might have used the funds incorrectly.

we are not in a court of law, she is a convicted killer, that is the term I would use

as for the grandparents, spending the funds to keep a convicted killer from getting custody of the children WOULD be a correct use of the funds

[seawolf4]

I do not see how anyone can think that the Winkler girls, (remember them?) would not be damamged by another court battle between their grandparents and their mother.

Since it would seem the senior Winklers are of modest means and the money will not be returned by the lawyers what will MW gain? Having shot their son in the back, taken their Grandchildren, will she now demand their retirement income? MOO

[seawolf4]

I can't get the link to work, but if you type in Tennesean.com you will get the current article on MW. In this article the senior Winkler mentions 2 funds. One a trust fund which has not been touched and the church fund which is not a trust fund.

IF this is accurate, then the girls trust fund is intact, but MW can't spend that money. MW's greed knowns no bounds. MOO

[RayStar]

we are not in a court of law, she is a convicted killer, that is the term I would use

as for the grandparents, spending the funds to keep a convicted killer from getting custody of the children WOULD be a correct use of the funds This thread is not about her conviction.

[LisaM22]

This thread is not about her conviction.

she is a convicted killer, this thread is about the grandparents using the funds to protect the children from a convicted killer

[LisaM22]

I like the term cold-blooded killer. It is appropriate. She murdered him by shooting him in the back while he slept because "her ugly came out".
MOO :scared:

yep, suing the parents of her victim, that is cold blooded imo

[FREEMORE]

Quite clearly the children didn't need that protection as they've been given back to Mary. Perhaps the court realised Mary is not a threat to her children and was only a threat to the man who was found to have abused her. The fact still remains that the trust fund did not state the money being collected was to attempt to deprive Mary from regaining custody of her children.

At the end of the day, the trust fund was for the benefit of the kids and, quite clearly, at this point in time, it has been decided that the best place for them is with their mom and, imo, the money should be available for the purpose for which it was intended.
ITA It will be interesting to find out how much they have spent. The trip to Disney World was money well spent. Also, I wonder if they were ever legally advised to use extreme caution in dispersing the funds.

[GentleBreeze]

Quite clearly the children didn't need that protection as they've been given back to Mary. Perhaps the court realised Mary is not a threat to her children and was only a threat to the man who was found to have abused her. The fact still remains that the trust fund did not state the money being collected was to attempt to deprive Mary from regaining custody of her children.

At the end of the day, the trust fund was for the benefit of the kids and, quite clearly, at this point in time, it has been decided that the best place for them is with their mom and, imo, the money should be available for the purpose for which it was intended.

I'm not even sure her jury thought she was abused. I know Foreman Berry said he did not believe her abuse story and really that is all it was. A story with him conveniently dead and silenced. There was nothing substantiating that she was abused. Even her story of being hit by him was so convenient, especially when she had just been seen by the church members themselves get hit in the face with a baseball. It was all contrived, imo.

I think they thought she had mental issues and that she perceived there was provocation even when there was none from a sleeping man with a 1000 ml of urine still in his bladder when killed.

All of her abuse story was highly convenient imo. Strange out of 10 years of living with him and no one seeing any hints of abuse she murders him just two hours before he was expected to be at the bank that very day where he would learn the truth about Mary and it wouldn't be the Christian wife he thought he knew.

This verdict made me as nauseated as the day they stood up and said OJ was not guilty. This is what shock and awe and smoke and mirrors from defense attorneys can do with the justice system.

From what I can gather, at least one of the funds does not belong to the children. Each donation had to be signed off by each church member. If it is owned by the members then they can designate to whom it goes to and for what.

If this money is given then it should be held until the children reach the age of maturity.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

This thread is not about her conviction.

I don't think the two can logically ever be separated from each other just like they aren't in any other case.

Yes, she is the woman who coldly shot her husband as he lay sleeping in his own bed with his children in another room with just a wall separating them.

That is the woman who now wants all the money.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I can't get the link to work, but if you type in Tennesean.com you will get the current article on MW. In this article the senior Winkler mentions 2 funds. One a trust fund which has not been touched and the church fund which is not a trust fund.

IF this is accurate, then the girls trust fund is intact, but MW can't spend that money. MW's greed knowns no bounds. MOO

Thank you. That is the way I understood it too.

imo

[RayStar]

I don't think the two can logically ever be separated from each other just like they aren't in any other case.

Yes, she is the woman who coldly shot her husband as he lay sleeping in his own bed with his children in another room with just a wall separating them.

That is the woman who now wants all the money.

imo
The mother wants the grandparents held accountable for spending the money intended for her children. If they have not broken the rules by spending money on lawyers and who knows now what else, I am sure the court will render an appropriate decision on the remaining/returning of the funds.

This is a lawsuit that could have easily been avoided by receiving legal advice from their attorney. Maybe they did.

[GentleBreeze]

I'm sorry GB but MW wasn't convicted of cold blooded murder. Please be careful what you say.

OTOH I don't blame her one bit for trying to expose MW's family for who they really are. Or rather what they really are.

To the poster that thinks that a wig and hooker shoes are all this case was about, who watched every moment of this trial, I guess you forgot about the nightly rape this battered woman sustained. One can only take so much. I'd call this justifiable homicide if ever there was a case.

Sounds like MW had a good teacher, from stealing donation funds to learning to kite money. It's always the pastors isn't it?
MW deserves every dime of any money they collected in the name of those children, and her case.
I hope she wins this case with damages. This was a sad case, but clearly not many have learned about domestic violence from this case.
And that is not something I'm shocked to hear about. It's the silence of spousal abuse that is the silent killer. This time, the victim took the law into her own hands. She has paid her debt to society, so to continually bash her online in print is really horrible, and wrong. Mary PAID her debt to society, and justice, was served.

[QUOTE=bugout;13219830]I'm sorry GB but MW wasn't convicted of cold blooded murder. Please be careful what you say."

So what? Neither was OJ Simpson but people have been voicing their opinions about that for years. The public doesn't have to agree with any verdict handed down in our court system.

I don't think Obama has taken away freedom of speech yet, has he? I absolutely do think she got away with cold blooded murder.

I also believe justice wasn't served.

IMO

[Leanne Weich]

I'm not even sure her jury thought she was abused. I know Foreman Berry said he did not believe her abuse story and really that is all it was. A story with him conveniently dead and silenced. There was nothing substantiating that she was abused. Even her story of being hit by him was so convenient, especially when she had just been seen by the church members themselves get hit in the face with a baseball. It was all contrived, imo.

I think they thought she had mental issues and that she perceived there was provocation even when there was none from a sleeping man with a 1000 ml of urine still in his bladder when killed.

All of her abuse story was highly convenient imo. Strange out of 10 years of living with him and no one seeing any hints of abuse she murders him just two hours before he was expected to be at the bank that very day where he would learn the truth about Mary and it wouldn't be the Christian wife he thought he knew.

This verdict made me as nauseated as the day they stood up and said OJ was not guilty. This is what shock and awe and smoke and mirrors from defense attorneys can do with the justice system.

From what I can gather, at least one of the funds does not belong to the children. Each donation had to be signed off by each church member. If it is owned by the members then they can designate to whom it goes to and for what.

If this money is given then it should be held until the children reach the age of maturity.

imo

TBH, the verdict nauseated me as well. However, she was found guilty of voluntary manslaughter IIRC, served her sentence, fought to regain custody of her children and was successful.

I don't agree with you that any monies which might be given should be held until the children reach maturity as they probably need some counselling now and probably will for time to come. I think a really good trustee could administer the funds to ensure Mary couldn't use them for her own or frivolous needs.

[GentleBreeze]

The mother wants the grandparents held accountable for spending the money intended for her children. If they have not broken the rules by spending money on lawyers and who knows now what else, I am sure the court will render an appropriate decision on the remaining/returning of the funds.

This is a lawsuit that could have easily been avoided by receiving legal advice from their attorney. Maybe they did.

From what I can learn the fund for the children is intact. Mary has no right over the church fund and the members are the ones who decide what is paid and what is not.

Did Mary ever send one dime of support to these children, I wonder. I know she was out pretty quickly on bond and worked.

I hope she gets nothing and is not but in charge of any monies. If the fund is to be given to the children then I hope they can obtain it as they become of age where it will help them with their education.

imo

[LisaM22]

The mother wants the grandparents held accountable for spending the money intended for her children. If they have not broken the rules by spending money on lawyers and who knows now what else, I am sure the court will render an appropriate decision on the remaining/returning of the funds.

This is a lawsuit that could have easily been avoided by receiving legal advice from their attorney. Maybe they did.

I have no doubt she will lose this case, that is not the point, the point is how cold this convicted killer is, going ofter her victims parents like that - anyone in there right mind can understand a grandparent wanting to protect their grandchildren from a convicted killer that had previously killed their own son

[GentleBreeze]

TBH, the verdict nauseated me as well. However, she was found guilty of voluntary manslaughter IIRC, served her sentence, fought to regain custody of her children and was successful.

I don't agree with you that any monies which might be given should be held until the children reach maturity as they probably need some counseling now and probably will for time to come. I think a really good trustee could administer the funds to ensure Mary couldn't use them for her own or frivolous needs.

I would think there are state funded programs for that for children who's fathers has been murdered.

Also I am sure even though Mary murdered Matthew she has been receiving a pretty sizable SS check each month for the three girls.

imo

[FREEMORE]

I hope the funds continue to grow and to take care of the children. Better than we taxpayers doing it.
Mary is the parent she should decide how the money is spent.

[FREEMORE]

I have no doubt she will lose this case, that is not the point, the point is how cold this convicted killer is, going ofter her victims parents like that - anyone in there right mind can understand a grandparent wanting to protect their grandchildren from a convicted killer that had previously killed their own sonIs this thread about a lawsuit of possible misuse of funds or not?

[RayStar]

I would think there are state funded programs for that for children who's fathers has been murdered.

Also I am sure even though Mary murdered Matthew she has been receiving a pretty sizable SS check each month for the three girls.

imoInteresting point about the SS check. Do you think the g/parents got the a SS check before MW retained custody? There may have been state funded programs before but with this economy states are cutting back on many things.

I did read where the one fund has not been touched. That's a good thing and maybe the court should appoint a guardian over it. I believe the g/parents have not wasted the money but how it was spent should be accounted for not only for MW and the girls but for the donors also.

[LisaM22]

Is this thread about a lawsuit of possible misuse of funds or not?

yep, it's about mary suing the parents of her victim for what she claims was a misuse of funds, she doesn't think trying to protect the children from a convicted killer was appropriate use of the funds :(

[bookie]

Interesting point about the SS check. Do you think the g/parents got the a SS check before MW retained custody? There may have been state funded programs before but with this economy states are cutting back on many things.

I did read where the one fund has not been touched. That's a good thing and maybe the court should appoint a guardian over it. I believe the g/parents have not wasted the money but how it was spent should be accounted for not only for MW and the girls but for the donors also.


I disagree. She deserves NOTHING. If it weren't for her actions Matthew would be alive and there would be NO funds to begin with.

[GentleBreeze]

Interesting point about the SS check. Do you think the g/parents got the a SS check before MW retained custody? There may have been state funded programs before but with this economy states are cutting back on many things.

I did read where the one fund has not been touched. That's a good thing and maybe the court should appoint a guardian over it. I believe the g/parents have not wasted the money but how it was spent should be accounted for not only for MW and the girls but for the donors also.

From what I understand the Winklers were never in charge of either fund and what was allowed to be paid was done by the trustees and then the church members as a whole on the one they have.

I cannot speak for all donors but when I donated to the Winklers (Dan and Diane only) I donated to them and the children. I would have never donated any money into the funds if I knew one day Mary Winkler could get her hands on it. I firmly believe that felons shouldn't benefit from their crimes and we can say all day long this money is for the children but IMO Mary will also use this money to benefit herself and I find that not only deplorable but thoroughly disgusting.

I would much rather it be held in a trust then given to them when they each reach the age of maturity to insure that they have funds for college should they want to go and I do feel all three will.

I know other children who are drawing SS from a deceased parent and the money is certainly ample enough to raise them, especially if the other parent is also working to see that they are provided for......

imo

[LisaM22]

From what I understand the Winklers were never in charge of either fund and what was allowed to be paid was done by the trustees and then the church members as a whole on the one they have.

I cannot speak for all donors but when I donated to the Winklers (Dan and Diane only) I donated to them and the children. I would have never donated any money into the funds if I knew one day Mary Winkler could get her hands on it. I firmly believe that felons shouldn't benefit from their crimes and we can say all day long this money is for the children but IMO Mary will also use this money to benefit herself and I find that not only deplorable but thoroughly disgusting.

I would much rather it be held in a trust then given to them when they each reach the age of maturity to insure that they have funds for college should they want to go and I do feel all three will.

I know other children who are drawing SS from a deceased parent and the money is certainly ample enough to raise them, especially if the other parent is also working to see that they are provided for......

imo

exactly... I think many would agree with you

[RayStar]

Bookie What about the girls? Do they deserve to know how the money was spent especially since it was intended for them? I want to know do funds like this ever have to give details of how the money is/were used?

Gentle Breeze In the first paragraph of your 11:05 am post are you saying the trustees approved any amount of money the Winklers asked for? I wonder if the Winklers were ever required to give a reason for the money.

I have nor will I ever say that MW should enjoy a penny of this money but she should have control of how it is spent for the welfare of her children. Unless she gets beauty enhancements or travels to exotic places minus the kids, it may be difficult to prove abuse of the funds if MW wins her suit.

I would like to think MW will be very careful in anything she does now. She must know she is being judged.

[bookie]

Bookie What about the girls? Do they deserve to know how the money was spent especially since it was intended for them? I want to know do funds like this ever have to give details of how the money is/were used?

Gentle Breeze In the first paragraph of your 11:05 am post are you saying the trustees approved any amount of money the Winklers asked for? I wonder if the Winklers were ever required to give a reason for the money.

I have nor will I ever say that MW should enjoy a penny of this money but she should have control of how it is spent for the welfare of her children. Unless she gets beauty enhancements or travels to exotic places minus the kids, it may be difficult to prove abuse of the funds if MW wins her suit.

I would like to think MW will be very careful in anything she does now. She must know she is being judged.


Again, I disagree. She is the only reason the funds exist. She should have no say or control over any money donated due to her shooting her slepping husband in the back.

[LisaM22]

Bookie What about the girls? Do they deserve to know how the money was spent especially since it was intended for them? I want to know do funds like this ever have to give details of how the money is/were used?

Gentle Breeze In the first paragraph of your 11:05 am post are you saying the trustees approved any amount of money the Winklers asked for? I wonder if the Winklers were ever required to give a reason for the money.

I have nor will I ever say that MW should enjoy a penny of this money but she should have control of how it is spent for the welfare of her children. Unless she gets beauty enhancements or travels to exotic places minus the kids, it may be difficult to prove abuse of the funds if MW wins her suit.

I would like to think MW will be very careful in anything she does now. She must know she is being judged.

Mary should never have control of that money, it was not meant for her, the children can go to grandma and grandpa's if they need something from the funds - and a portion should be set up as a trust fund for the children's college expenses that can't be touched by ANYONE

[MyHope]

They are in closing arguments now. Shouldn't be too long cuz the judge sez he has other stuff to do.

Not surprised to see Ocean spreading waves of misinformation today. It's easy enough to see what's going on by reading the live blog at WREG. In fact, Dan signed checks on the account and didn't have to provide any accounting for it at all. And he spent most of the money on his attorneys while he admits he had private resources that could have been spent for that purpose.

[LisaM22]

They are in closing arguments now. Shouldn't be too long cuz the judge sez he has other stuff to do.

Not surprised to see Ocean spreading waves of misinformation today. It's easy enough to see what's going on by reading the live blog at WREG. In fact, Dan signed checks on the account and didn't have to provide any accounting for it at all. And he spent most of the money on his attorneys while he admits he had private resources that could have been spent for that purpose.

why should they use their private money when that money was donated for just that purpose? it was for the children they were fighting, not for themselves, the grandparents did not want to risk losing their grandchildren to the same killer that killed their son, I think most people understand that

[LisaM22]

looks like Mary is no longer wearing the little ol innocent clothes the was wearing to court during the murder trial anymore

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090624/NEWS03/906240383/1009/NEWS02/Chancellor+overrules+motion+to+dismiss+Mary+Winkle r+s+request

now she has big gaudy earrings, did not get a look at her shoes to see what they looked like, would not surprise me if they were much like the ones we saw in court

[GentleBreeze]

why should they use their private money when that money was donated for just that purpose? it was for the children they were fighting, not for themselves, the grandparents did not want to risk losing their grandchildren to the same killer that killed their son, I think most people understand that

The Guardian Ad Litem testified and he said that the Winklers did have the best interest of the children in mind.

[MyHope]

Good ruling. Money belongs to Winkler children. Thanks again to Mary's terrific lawyers. :thumbup:

[GentleBreeze]

Here is a blog report from a reporter with Channel 3 that was in the courtroom.

Guardian Ad Litem

Says he thinks the Winkler's made decisions that were in the children's best interests and that any of us would have done the same thing. Thinks the trip to Disney World and items that were bought benefited the kids.
Wishes "immediate needs" had been defined at the beginning. Never saw anything in excess. All things were done promoting what was in best interest of the children.

Direct accounting for life insurance and social security money.

Thinks remaining money should be paid into the court to avoid any other questions and issues.

Sees a difference between the two trusts that were set up. One was 100% for the kids while the other did not.

http://winklerblog.blogspot.com/

[GentleBreeze]

Good ruling. Money belongs to Winkler children. Thanks again to Mary's terrific lawyers. :thumbup:

Evidently not all of it. While the Winkler family's attorney is doing this pro bono it seems Mary Winkler's attorney, Farese Turner wants her cut paid out of the money.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Good ruling. Money belongs to Winkler children. Thanks again to Mary's terrific lawyers. :thumbup:

And I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself. The Judge has made no ruling and says he needs more time and more documentation.

imo

[LisaM22]

Good ruling. Money belongs to Winkler children. Thanks again to Mary's terrific lawyers. :thumbup:

don't count that money yet, the judge hasn't decided anything, he needs more time... lol

[LisaM22]

Evidently not all of it. While the Winkler family's attorney is doing this pro bono it seems Mary Winkler's attorney, Farese Turner wants her cut paid out of the money.

imo

I think it is like 11,000 left, not gonna go very far whoever gets it

[FallenAngel♥]

looks like Mary is no longer wearing the little ol innocent clothes the was wearing to court during the murder trial anymore

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090624/NEWS03/906240383/1009/NEWS02/Chancellor+overrules+motion+to+dismiss+Mary+Winkle r+s+request

now she has big gaudy earrings, did not get a look at her shoes to see what they looked like, would not surprise me if they were much like the ones we saw in court

she look great to me. looks like a typical soccer mom.

[GentleBreeze]

looks like Mary is no longer wearing the little ol innocent clothes the was wearing to court during the murder trial anymore

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090624/NEWS03/906240383/1009/NEWS02/Chancellor+overrules+motion+to+dismiss+Mary+Winkle r+s+request

now she has big gaudy earrings, did not get a look at her shoes to see what they looked like, would not surprise me if they were much like the ones we saw in court

Yeah, she now dons those big gaudy earrings and frilly clothes.

I noticed she is still seems to be eating rather well even though Turner says Mary is indigent.

So does that mean she is not working again, I wonder?

imo

[GentleBreeze]

she look great to me. looks like a typical soccer mom.

I don't see any soccer mom coming to a soccer field dressed like that.

imo

[Tracian]

The Guardian Ad Litem testified and he said that the Winklers did have the best interest of the children in mind.

Just goes to show that Mary is a very manipulative person; I never bought her act on the stand; I was digusted when the judge gave her custody, and this lastest action just continues to show how cold she really is--sadly, I am sure we will be hearing more about 'Mary' and her horrible actions.

[momof6]

Her children are going to grow up one day, and they will realize how cold and calculating their mother is. I believe the oldest daughter probably already knows that, but has no say in the matter yet.

I would not want Mary to be in charge of any money for those girls. She is out for herself and only herself.

[SKARDYKAT]

Mary W has no standing in the disposition of the funds. So, how can she sue that it was misused?
If the money has been spent in the best interest of the children (in her custody or not) then I don't even know how it went to trial.

[beattherap]

"Chancellor Ron Harmon issued a partial ruling Wednesday evening, finding that a large percentage of the money in a Huntingdon Church of Christ fund established for the daughters of Mary Winkler belong to the three girls."

"But Harmon also said a portion of the money collected was clearly to be used for the grandparents of the three girls, Dan and Diane Winkler. He ruled that this included money used to purchase a van that belonged to Dan Winkler."


"http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090625/NEWS03/90625119/1001/NEWS

[Staceylee]

she is a convicted killer, this thread is about the grandparents using the funds to protect the children from a convicted killer


I agree, I believe that the money was collected because the children had just lost there father and the mother would be going to jail for a long time and possible for life. I think that most of the people who donated to the fund were hoping it would help the grandparents to raise the children and put them through college. And IMO I think the jury really got it wrong with her. She should have been found guilty of first degree premeditated murder and locked up for the rest of her life but she and her defense team were able fool the jurors.

[totallyBARD]

I'm sorry GB but MW wasn't convicted of cold blooded murder. Please be careful what you say.

OTOH I don't blame her one bit for trying to expose MW's family for who they really are. Or rather what they really are.

To the poster that thinks that a wig and hooker shoes are all this case was about, who watched every moment of this trial, I guess you forgot about the nightly rape this battered woman sustained. One can only take so much. I'd call this justifiable homicide if ever there was a case.

Sounds like MW had a good teacher, from stealing donation funds to learning to kite money. It's always the pastors isn't it?
MW deserves every dime of any money they collected in the name of those children, and her case.
I hope she wins this case with damages. This was a sad case, but clearly not many have learned about domestic violence from this case.
And that is not something I'm shocked to hear about. It's the silence of spousal abuse that is the silent killer. This time, the victim took the law into her own hands. She has paid her debt to society, so to continually bash her online in print is really horrible, and wrong. Mary PAID her debt to society, and justice, was served.

I completely agree with you and am disgusted that imo the apparent role models for Matthew's abusive patterns continued to abuse Mary's family further by stealing money clearly meant for the use of the children and not for attorney fees.

I support Mary trying to build a new life for her family, who is finally free of subjugation.

[totallyBARD]

Bookie What about the girls? Do they deserve to know how the money was spent especially since it was intended for them? I want to know do funds like this ever have to give details of how the money is/were used?

Gentle Breeze In the first paragraph of your 11:05 am post are you saying the trustees approved any amount of money the Winklers asked for? I wonder if the Winklers were ever required to give a reason for the money.

I have nor will I ever say that MW should enjoy a penny of this money but she should have control of how it is spent for the welfare of her children. Unless she gets beauty enhancements or travels to exotic places minus the kids, it may be difficult to prove abuse of the funds if MW wins her suit.

I would like to think MW will be very careful in anything she does now. She must know she is being judged.

ITA. The money is for the children. Not for Mary. Not for the two who raised Matthew Winkler. It is for the 3 children, who have suffered enough at the hands of those who publicly professed to care about them. I have faith they are in good hands now and any monies collected on their behalf could help with their future counseling and educational bills.

[KittyMom]

IMO, when Mary Winkler dies she'll bust Hell's gates wide open.

KM

[totallyBARD]

When I looked at this article: http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090624/NEWS03/906240383/1009/NEWS02/Chancellor+overrules+motion+to+dismiss+Mary+Winkle r+s+request


I did not get a negative feel about Mary Winkler's attire.

What I DID get was quite a list of how money for the children was instead used by Matthew's parents to spread their hatred and also for their own needs. I fully support Mary trying to get her children's money returned to them.

BTW, this thread is not about the trial which is long over. It's about trying to get the children's money back for their future use.

[RayStar]

The money wouldn't exist if she had not committed her crime. You can't seperate them.OH yes one can. The children need the money now.

[RayStar]

When I looked at this article: http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090624/NEWS03/906240383/1009/NEWS02/Chancellor+overrules+motion+to+dismiss+Mary+Winkle r+s+request


I did not get a negative feel about Mary Winkler's attire.

What I DID get was quite a list of how money for the children was instead used by Matthew's parents to spread their hatred and also for their own needs. I fully support Mary trying to get her children's money returned to them.

BTW, this thread is not about the trial which is long over. It's about trying to get the children's money back for their future use.ITA The thread is about the children's money. Thanks
I also believe Mary will continue to do everything possible to protect and provide for her children.

[History Buff]

You mean like she helped Matt?

[Staceylee]

I seem to remember that when Mary was on trial something about her losing a bunch of money in some kind of crazy scam. Does anyone remember anything about that.

If she is naive about money is she really the best person to be overseeing the kids college fund? I think not.

[Staceylee]

I seem to remember that when Mary was on trial something about her losing a bunch of money in some kind of crazy scam. Does anyone remember anything about that.

If she is naive about money is she really the best person to be overseeing the kids college fund? I think not.

I just googled it and it has to do with a Check kiting scam called "Nigerian Scam".

For more information check out this link

http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/winkler.htm

then click on wife killed minister after money argument.

[LisaM22]

When I looked at this article: http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090624/NEWS03/906240383/1009/NEWS02/Chancellor+overrules+motion+to+dismiss+Mary+Winkle r+s+request


I did not get a negative feel about Mary Winkler's attire.

What I DID get was quite a list of how money for the children was instead used by Matthew's parents to spread their hatred and also for their own needs. I fully support Mary trying to get her children's money returned to them.

BTW, this thread is not about the trial which is long over. It's about trying to get the children's money back for their future use.

Mary is a convicted killer, that will never change, I do not believe she is trying to sue the children's grandparents for anything but Mary - jmho

[Marcia3]

Bookie What about the girls? Do they deserve to know how the money was spent especially since it was intended for them? I want to know do funds like this ever have to give details of how the money is/were used?

Gentle Breeze In the first paragraph of your 11:05 am post are you saying the trustees approved any amount of money the Winklers asked for? I wonder if the Winklers were ever required to give a reason for the money.

I have nor will I ever say that MW should enjoy a penny of this money but she should have control of how it is spent for the welfare of her children. Unless she gets beauty enhancements or travels to exotic places minus the kids, it may be difficult to prove abuse of the funds if MW wins her suit.

I would like to think MW will be very careful in anything she does now. She must know she is being judged.

Actually, IMO, this lawsuit shows us just the opposite about Mary: she believes whatever she does is justified, up to and including shooting her husband dead. Again, JMO.

[LisaM22]

Actually, IMO, this lawsuit shows us just the opposite about Mary: she believes whatever she does is justified, up to and including shooting her husband dead. Again, JMO.
exactly, she is not just suing for the funds that are left, she is suing her victims parents for the funds that were spent trying to keep the children safe from the one who was convicted of killing the children's father, how cold is that

[Marcia3]

exactly, she is not just suing for the funds that are left, she is suing her victims parents for the funds that were spent trying to keep the children safe from the one who was convicted of killing the children's father, how cold is that


IMO, about as cold as it gets. :angry:

[Suzy Q]

Oh my goodness. Reverend Dan did use the children"s money most inappropriately. Lots of money. More than one fund. Saying it's church money. And HE told his grandchildren their mom robbed a bank. Ironic.

[LisaM22]

Oh my goodness. Reverend Dan did use the children"s money most inappropriately. Lots of money. More than one fund. Saying it's church money. And HE told his grandchildren their mom robbed a bank. Ironic.

attorney fees do not count as inappropriate, the fees were the cost of trying to keep the children safe from the person convicted of killing their father

telling the children mom robbed a bank is why she is in jail was probably what they planned to tell the children rather then MOM KILLED YOUR DADDY, so even if they did say that, it is a non-issue to me

[Suzy Q]

attorney fees do not count as inappropriate, the fees were the cost of trying to keep the children safe from the person convicted of killing their father

telling the children mom robbed a bank is why she is in jail was probably what they planned to tell the children rather then MOM KILLED YOUR DADDY, so even if they did say that, it is a non-issue to meI know you and I have always disagreed on the criminal case, Lisa. But nothing Mary did can justify Reverend Dan's inappropriate behavior. This latest revelation further validates my belief that Matthew called the shots on the finances in the parsonage and learned his tricks from his father.

[Tracian]

I know you and I have always disagreed on the criminal case, Lisa. But nothing Mary did can justify Reverend Dan's inappropriate behavior. This latest revelation further validates my belief that Matthew called the shots on the finances in the parsonage and learned his tricks from his father.


Mary called the last and deadliest shot.

I don't buy her stories...but to give the devil her due...she sure played the role well.

[Suzy Q]

Check out the thread in old cases (closed for the holiday weekend.) Dan Winkler used his granddaughters' money for other purposes than their care while he had custody of them.

[Pat]

I've been following this, but just can't real excited or outraged.

Mary Winkler murdered her husband in cold blood, IMO, and should have been found guilty and sentenced to LWOP. The alleged abuse claim never happened and was nothing more than a defense ploy.

I have no sympathy for her and consider her a psychopath.

MO

[Suzy Q]

I have always found Dan to be the most interesting of everyone involved in this tragedy.

[HansieDZ]

I've been following this, but just can't real excited or outraged.

Mary Winkler murdered her husband in cold blood, IMO, and should have been found guilty and sentenced to LWOP. The alleged abuse claim never happened and was nothing more than a defense ploy.

I have no sympathy for her and consider her a psychopath.

MO

Thank you for saying what I believe too.
ITA.
I pray the girls can overcome the past and have a successful future,but I really worry about them.

[Suzy Q]

There were two funds, right? Which one are you speaking of?

Yeah I put Fund(s) in the subject line. Actually it came out in the recent proceedings there are 3.

[puleeze09]

I've been following this, but just can't real excited or outraged.

Mary Winkler murdered her husband in cold blood, IMO, and should have been found guilty and sentenced to LWOP. The alleged abuse claim never happened and was nothing more than a defense ploy.

I have no sympathy for her and consider her a psychopath.

MO

What the FIL did is nothing compared to murdering a defenseless man in his sleep. That coward mary shouldnt talk. She is a murdering homicidal loser who should be in prison. Spousal abuse claims were a joke. No evidence whatsoever and your gonna take the word of a murdering "woman" that it happened. Yeah right and im the king of the world.

[LisaM22]

Check out the thread in old cases (closed for the holiday weekend.) Dan Winkler used his granddaughters' money for other purposes than their care while he had custody of them.

the grandparents used the money to try and keep the children safe, safe from the one that was convicted of killing their father, the funds were not misused, what is sad is Mary is not just suing her victims parents for the left over funds, she is suing them for the money they spent trying to keep the children safe - jmo

[LisaM22]

The reason I asked - someone told me that the Winklers are claiming the one set up through the church wasn't exclusively for the girls. What do you know about that?

the judge agreed, i do not think anyone would of donated if they thought the killer would eventually get the money - jmho

[kitty1182]

I've been following this, but just can't real excited or outraged.

Mary Winkler murdered her husband in cold blood, IMO, and should have been found guilty and sentenced to LWOP. The alleged abuse claim never happened and was nothing more than a defense ploy.

I have no sympathy for her and consider her a psychopath.

MO

I agree!!!!!

[4ever young]

Lemme see if I can follow...Mary killed her husband, therefore it is just fine for Dan to take the kids' money and squander it on lawyers fees and expert witnesses and then say it was church money?!

[marshmallow]

Lemme see if I can follow...Mary killed her husband, therefore it is just fine for Dan to take the kids' money and squander it on lawyers fees and expert witnesses and then say it was church money?!

protecting those girls and their futures from the person who murdered their father in cold blood is putting the money toward care of the children. pity the murderer didn't care about those children when she killed their father to cover her creative financing.

[4ever young]

Mr. Harmon should order restitution, Dan should have to pay back his granddaughters for attorney fees, money for expert witnesses. He took $100k from one of his six bank accounts and put it in his retirement account, so we know he has that. If he is short any of the money he can ask for more from his c of c friends

[taylor63]

the grandparents used the money to try and keep the children safe, safe from the one that was convicted of killing their father, the funds were not misused, what is sad is Mary is not just suing her victims parents for the left over funds, she is suing them for the money they spent trying to keep the children safe - jmo

I agree this woman has no heart and no concious at all to sue the parents of the man she murdered in coldblood. She is truly one of the most despicable human beings I have ever heard of in my entire life. How those people on that jury who let her off with a slap on the wrist even sleep at night is beyond my comprehension.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

Lemme see if I can follow...Mary killed her husband, therefore it is just fine for Dan to take the kids' money and squander it on lawyers fees and expert witnesses and then say it was church money?!

Nope. You evidently can't follow.

The money was used to protect the children from the murdering woman who gave birth to said children.

[SavannahStar]

I've been following this, but just can't real excited or outraged.

Mary Winkler murdered her husband in cold blood, IMO, and should have been found guilty and sentenced to LWOP. The alleged abuse claim never happened and was nothing more than a defense ploy.

I have no sympathy for her and consider her a psychopath.

MO

I totally agree with all of this.

[Poochie Pie]

I have always found Dan to be the most interesting of everyone involved in this tragedy. Hi Suzy Q..!! I suspected something like this would eventually come out... And though I sympathize with the grief and despair the Winklers obviously suffered at the loss of their Son, I still cannot get over the fact that Dan told the children that Mary had "robbed a Bank"....!! I believe that the fact that they had lost their Father at the hands of their Mother was more than enough....Hope all is well with you..

Poochie

[LisaM22]

Hi Suzy Q..!! I suspected something like this would eventually come out... And though I sympathize with the grief and despair the Winklers obviously suffered at the loss of their Son, I still cannot get over the fact that Dan told the children that Mary had "robbed a Bank"....!! I believe that the fact that they had lost their Father at the hands of their Mother was more than enough....Hope all is well with you..

Poochie

maybe they decided to tell the children that was why mommy was in jail, maybe they thought was better then telling them the truth at their young age, mommy is in jail because she killed your daddy, ya can't protect them from the truth forever, though sadly - jmho

and who knows, might not be completly a lie, that may be why she killed their father, we will never know - jmho

[Poochie Pie]

maybe they decided to tell the children that was why mommy was in jail, maybe they thought was better then telling them the truth at their young age, mommy is in jail because she killed your daddy, ya can't protect them from the truth forever, though sadly - jmho

and who knows, might not be completly a lie, that may be why she killed their father, we will never know - jmho Hi Lisa... Though we have never really seen "eye to eye" on this Case, You make some very good points... Perhaps that IS why Dan told the children that... More than likely lots of things that we will never know... Hope you enjoy this Holiday weekend..

Poochie

[LisaM22]

Hi Lisa... Though we have never really seen "eye to eye" on this Case, You make some very good points... Perhaps that IS why Dan told the children that... More than likely lots of things that we will never know... Hope you enjoy this Holiday weekend..

Poochie

thanks, you too...

[PoppySeeds]

I've been following this, but just can't real excited or outraged.

Mary Winkler murdered her husband in cold blood, IMO, and should have been found guilty and sentenced to LWOP. The alleged abuse claim never happened and was nothing more than a defense ploy.

I have no sympathy for her and consider her a psychopath.

MO

How can you say it never happened? The only people who know what happened are the ones who lived in that house. Many women live silently in abuse for years and no one ever knows about it until the husband goes to far, or the wife snaps.
I honestly feel sorry for her.

[Tracian]

How can you say it never happened? The only people who know what happened are the ones who lived in that house. Many women live silently in abuse for years and no one ever knows about it until the husband goes to far, or the wife snaps.
I honestly feel sorry for her.


And many women use the abuse excuse to get away with murder.

Mary is IMO, one of the most manipulative women I have ever seen.

[PoppySeeds]

And many women use the abuse excuse to get away with murder.

Mary is IMO, one of the most manipulative women I have ever seen.


I didn't follow this trial as closely as I should have, I guess, but I have felt sorry for her from the beginning. The ones I pity the most are the girls, though.
I lean more toward believing that the abuse occured, because I have been in a situation where I was abused and I couldn't get anyone to believe me...Until I ended up in the hospital.
I think it is better to be cautious when it comes to abuse.

[Suzy Q]

Regardless of what one thinks of Mary, Dan's actions against his granddaughters are simply wrong. Chancellor Harmon has done a great job thus far and I have confidence he'll do the right thing for the girls.

[Tracian]

I didn't follow this trial as closely as I should have, I guess, but I have felt sorry for her from the beginning. The ones I pity the most are the girls, though.
I lean more toward believing that the abuse occured, because I have been in a situation where I was abused and I couldn't get anyone to believe me...Until I ended up in the hospital.
I think it is better to be cautious when it comes to abuse.


I followed the case, and Mary's actions, and IMO, this was not a woman that was so sexually, mentally abused that she thought this was her only way out.

I know many women, like you, go through, "not being believed" and IMO, the reasons were in the past, because it was 'none of our business, what goes on between a husband and wife' which has now 'morphed' into some very manipulative women, using this horror that many experienced as a way to get a foot up in divorce court, custody issues, and in Mary's case to get away with a murder.

I agree with being cautious in allegations of abuse, but I believe that caution has to be a two way street.

ITA that my biggest concerns are the girls....I am shocked that (let's say, Mary was abused, and snapped) she regained custody with such ease...because, I would think she would need years and years of therapy to come to terms with her actions, and also, to be able to support her children emotionally, in regards to the death of their father, and the conflict they must have due to the circumstances.

[PoppySeeds]

Regardless of what one thinks of Mary, Dan's actions against his granddaughters are simply wrong. Chancellor Harmon has done a great job thus far and I have confidence he'll do the right thing for the girls.

They should have to provide reciepts for everything they spend to prove it is for the girls.

[Tracian]

They should have to provide reciepts for everything they spend to prove it is for the girls.


The way I understand it, part of the money was used to protect them from a mother convicted of killing their father.

I could be wrong, but that is what I understand.

[Poochie Pie]

I followed the case, and Mary's actions, and IMO, this was not a woman that was so sexually, mentally abused that she thought this was her only way out.

I know many women, like you, go through, "not being believed" and IMO, the reasons were in the past, because it was 'none of our business, what goes on between a husband and wife' which has now 'morphed' into some very manipulative women, using this horror that many experienced as a way to get a foot up in divorce court, custody issues, and in Mary's case to get away with a murder.

I agree with being cautious in allegations of abuse, but I believe that caution has to be a two way street.

ITA that my biggest concerns are the girls....I am shocked that (let's say, Mary was abused, and snapped) she regained custody with such ease...because, I would think she would need years and years of therapy to come to terms with her actions, and also, to be able to support her children emotionally, in regards to the death of their father, and the conflict they must have due to the circumstances. Tracian, you do realize that Dan Winkler voluntarily gave the kids back to Mary.. right..?? Like you, I was shocked as well... I will never figure that one out..

Poochie

[Pat]

No evidence of prior abuse, nor of abuse that night. The only other person who could tell us his side is dead.

She shot her sleeping husband in the back.

Given her behavior since she shot him, I'd go with the NO abuse ever happened.

I'm not fond of people bringing their own personal baggage to a discussion and then trying to take their own experience and layer it over the known facts to support their opinion in a case when there is NO evidence to support such a position.

If the facts won't support the conjecture, don't try to muddy the discussion with an emotionally hot topic issue in an effort to silence those that hold another opinion of this particular woman. Plenty of that went on during the trial and it never changed the fact there was no evidence of abuse.

I don't care if the money was used for lawyers to keep those children away from Winkler, who shouldn't be free in the first place. She is a killer and I don't blame the victim's parents.

[Tracian]

Tracian, you do realize that Dan Winkler voluntarily gave the kids back to Mary.. right..?? Like you, I was shocked as well... I will never figure that one out..

Poochie


IIRC, he did so because he did not want to put them through a legal battle, that experts said he would most likely loose...or so I read...but who knows with the media.

[PoppySeeds]

I followed the case, and Mary's actions, and IMO, this was not a woman that was so sexually, mentally abused that she thought this was her only way out.

I know many women, like you, go through, "not being believed" and IMO, the reasons were in the past, because it was 'none of our business, what goes on between a husband and wife' which has now 'morphed' into some very manipulative women, using this horror that many experienced as a way to get a foot up in divorce court, custody issues, and in Mary's case to get away with a murder.

I agree with being cautious in allegations of abuse, but I believe that caution has to be a two way street.

ITA that my biggest concerns are the girls....I am shocked that (let's say, Mary was abused, and snapped) she regained custody with such ease...because, I would think she would need years and years of therapy to come to terms with her actions, and also, to be able to support her children emotionally, in regards to the death of their father, and the conflict they must have due to the circumstances.

OK, I can see what you mean. I didn't follow it closely, so I didn't see how she acted. I only caught blurbs about the case, in the news. Didn't she get caught somewhere in Alabama?

[Poochie Pie]

Regardless of what one thinks of Mary, Dan's actions against his granddaughters are simply wrong. Chancellor Harmon has done a great job thus far and I have confidence he'll do the right thing for the girls. Agree Suzy Q.... Wonder how Mary and the girls are doing..?? I would love to hear that they are happy and on the road to recovery...

Poochie

[Tracian]

No evidence of prior abuse, nor of abuse that night. The only other person who could tell us his side is dead.

She shot her sleeping husband in the back.

Given her behavior since she shot him, I'd go with the NO abuse ever happened.

I'm not fond of people bringing their own personal baggage to a discussion and then trying to take their own experience and layer it over the known facts to support their opinion in a case when there is NO evidence to support such a position.

If the facts won't support the conjecture, don't try to muddy the discussion with an emotionally hot topic issue in an effort to silence those that hold another opinion of this particular woman. Plenty of that went on during the trial and it never changed the fact there was no evidence of abuse.

I don't care if the money was used for lawyers to keep those children away from Winkler, who shouldn't be free in the first place. She is a killer and I don't blame the victim's parents.


Pat:

In fairness, we all (or at least I am guilty of it) base our opinions on cases, and the people involved according to our own life experiences; as that is how we form our personal perceptions.

You always have great posts, even when I don't agree with you, so please don't think I am attacking you in any way, shape or form.

It is just that I believe what we have seen, heard, and lived as people makes us come to the conclusions that we do.

[Tracian]

OK, I can see what you mean. I didn't follow it closely, so I didn't see how she acted. I only caught blurbs about the case, in the news. Didn't she get caught somewhere in Alabama?

IIRC yes...she took off with the kids on 'vacation' (or that is what she told them)

Oh...BTW..

I was too late to edit, my last post...

When I mentioned that you like other women are not believed, it is because, now it has morphed, and is used by those not abused, so those that are, tend to be treated more cynically.

[PoppySeeds]

IIRC yes...she took off with the kids on 'vacation' (or that is what she told them)

Oh...BTW..

I was too late to edit, my last post...

When I mentioned that you like other women are not believed, it is because, now it has morphed, and is used by those not abused, so those that are, tend to be treated more cynically.

My ex husband was/is a "good boy", who would "never hurt a single soul". The night he put me in the hospital, he told me if I had him arrested, his mom would bail him out and he would come back and kill me. He said he would kill my kids first, and make me watch.
Needless to say, I left AMA and left the state with my kids. A lot of people don't have the options I had open to me.
I have spent many years giving all the spare time I had to women's shelters, to try and give back what had been given to me.

I try and remember everything I went through to keep me from being judgemental about other women. At this point in my life, the only ones I don't feel sorry for are the ones who refuse to leave and say "But he loves me".

[Tracian]

My ex husband was/is a "good boy", who would "never hurt a single soul". The night he put me in the hospital, he told me if I had him arrested, his mom would bail him out and he would come back and kill me. He said he would kill my kids first, and make me watch.
Needless to say, I left AMA and left the state with my kids. A lot of people don't have the options I had open to me.
I have spent many years giving all the spare time I had to women's shelters, to try and give back what had been given to me.

I try and remember everything I went through to keep me from being judgemental about other women. At this point in my life, the only ones I don't feel sorry for are the ones who refuse to leave and say "But he loves me".


I am so sorry...that happens a lot...I have seen it first hand, more times than not they keep going back for many reasons. I have also seen women, first hand that when their marriage falls apart, run to women's groups and swear they have been abused, all as a ploy..because so many women in the past were ignored, they use that FACT as a way to facilitate their revenge.

IMO, when it can be proved a woman out and out lies about abuse, she should serve time..because aside from clogging the system and hurting so many emotionally, it makes LE, courts, and the public cynical to believe.

Too many women are victims, too many times they are killed because they slip through the cracks...too many are forced to take the 'law' into their own hands...and then there are those that USE those horror stories to promote their own agendas.

[Suzy Q]

IIRC, he did so because he did not want to put them through a legal battle, that experts said he would most likely loose...or so I read...but who knows with the media.He did put them through quite a lot as he attempted to keep them from having a relationship with their mother. He spent more than $100,000 of his granddaughters' money on witnesses, private investigators, lawyers. His legal shenanigans were actually quite involved for over a year. But Poochie is correct that finally he decided to "allow" them to be with their mom. I have never read anything that quoted him as giving a reason. Dan had no problem putting them through it just as he had no problem draining their fund(s).

[Poochie Pie]

Magnificent post..!! Can't add a thing to it. I take no pleasure what so ever in the fact that Matthew Winkler lost his life. However, with that said, I do truly believe that Mary and the girls led an abusive, terrifying life within the confines of that Home.

Poochie

[Tracian]

Hmm...

Maybe I missed it..did the girls say they either were abused or witnessed the abuse of their mother?

[LisaM22]

How can you say it never happened? The only people who know what happened are the ones who lived in that house. Many women live silently in abuse for years and no one ever knows about it until the husband goes to far, or the wife snaps.
I honestly feel sorry for her.

I do not think he was the abuser, I think it was the other way around

[beattherap]

Mamma Bear; continue to protect your children from harm. Some with an ounce of a brain know this is what you were really doing, after all those years of abuse.[snip]
BUG
:rose: :rose: :rose:
i'd rather stick to the thread topic--- the funds--- than redo the trial and mary's crazy story about what happened that morning... she beattherap, not the 1st nor last to get away with murder...

i do agree with this statement of yours--- "Some with an ounce of a brain know" mary was protecting her children... it would take an ounce-size brain to believe That...

imo.

[Suzy Q]

Great post, bugout. Mary is standing up for herself and her children by making sure Dan is held accountable for the way he handled the chikdren's money. The Winkler Family Fund website no longer exists. But it stated it was for the immediate needs of the children and anything left over would be for their college education. No where on the website did it say that donations were for Dan Winkler. It did not say the church had anything to do with the fund. It gave the names of those administering it, Eddie Thompson and others in his company. Eddie was on Larry King Live and reiterated what was on the website. I questiin whether you need to spend $8,000 on furniture for three children, but perhaps Dan has a rather expensively furnished home and that was in keeping with that. Disney World would be fun for the kids. But to spend it to finance a legal vendetta against their mom is clearly wrong.

Then there were two other funds and Dan's six bank accounts with what appears to be comingling. And $100,000 put into a retirement fund for Dan.

$11,000 is all that's left. Matthew's $500,000 life insurance policy is being kept by the court so that will benefit the children. But to take money from your own grandkids...wow! If he wants revenge on Mary, fine, but don't take it out on the kids.

[LisaM22]

Great post, bugout. Mary is standing up for herself and her children by making sure Dan is held accountable for the way he handled the chikdren's money. The Winkler Family Fund website no longer exists. But it stated it was for the immediate needs of the children and anything left over would be for their college education. No where on the website did it say that donations were for Dan Winkler. It did not say the church had anything to do with the fund. It gave the names of those administering it, Eddie Thompson and others in his company. Eddie was on Larry King Live and reiterated what was on the website. I questiin whether you need to spend $8,000 on furniture for three children, but perhaps Dan has a rather expensively furnished home and that was in keeping with that. Disney World would be fun for the kids. But to spend it to finance a legal vendetta against their mom is clearly wrong.

Then there were two other funds and Dan's six bank accounts with what appears to be comingling. And $100,000 put into a retirement fund for Dan.

$11,000 is all that's left. Matthew's $500,000 life insurance policy is being kept by the court so that will benefit the children. But to take money from your own grandkids...wow! If he wants revenge on Mary, fine, but don't take it out on the kids.

so will mary get the life insurance too eventually? I did not think they would pay out to mary if she was convicted of killing him, she is one greedy women imo, she basically got away with killing her husband and now she is suing his parents for trying to keep the children safe from the like of her, she has got some balls, if she abuses the parents, my guess is she abused her husband too, the ultimate abuse was shooting the man in the back while he slept after an argument she had early with him - btw, i think it was mary that bought the shoes and the wig too, they seem like something she would buy, not her husband - jmho

[beattherap]

the judge agreed, i do not think anyone would of donated if they thought the killer would eventually get the money - jmho
mary hasn't asked the court to give Her the money... she hasn't even asked to be put in charge of the money...

i definitely remember one of the funds being for the needs of the children, counseling, and education... if the winklers used any of that money for the custody case legal fees, i think they were wrong to.

imo.

[GentleBreeze]

mary hasn't asked the court to give Her the money... she hasn't even asked to be put in charge of the money...

i definitely remember one of the funds being for the needs of the children, counseling, and education... if the winklers used any of that money for the custody case legal fees, i think they were wrong to.

imo.

I think it is all in how one looks at it. At the time they had the mother of their grandchildren charged with killing their own father so therefore imo they did think it was in the best interest of the girls for them to fight for custody of the children.

I am sure the Judge will decide that some of the girls money that was spent was indeed for the girls and other things may not have been. Then after receiving the documentation from both sides he will determine how much was meant for the Winklers.

I am glad that I sent my donations strictly to Diane and Dan Winkler after the first donation to the Winkler Fund because I wanted to donate to them and the girls collectively. I didn't care if they took them out for a nice evening meal or what they did with it.

Whatever is left in the funds I hope it is held in Trust for the girls college education.

IMO, there wouldn't have been a dime donated into either fund if it wasn't for those who knew and respected Dan and Diane Winkler. Or outsiders who knew that raising three children right out of the blue could bring a hardship.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Nope. You evidently can't follow.

The money was used to protect the children from the murdering woman who gave birth to said children.

Simple isn't it?

Mary already knows crime pays. She receives and controls the monthly Social Security benefits that the three girls get because of their DEAD father that Mary blew away.:rolleyes:

Is she working? She is getting money from somewhere to buy those bodacious earrings and fru-fru clothes.

And what's up with Mary's wonderful lawyer? Dan's lawyer is doing the case pro bono but Farese-Turner wants the court to pay her part out of the funds.

imo

[beattherap]

I think it is all in how one looks at it. At the time they had the mother of their grandchildren charged with killing their own father so therefore imo they did think it was in the best interest of the girls for them to fight for custody of the children.

I am sure the Judge will decide that some of the girls money that was spent was indeed for the girls and other things may not have been. Then after receiving the documentation from both sides he will determine how much was meant for the Winklers.

I am glad that I sent my donations strictly to Diane and Dan Winkler after the first donation to the Winkler Fund because I wanted to donate to them and the girls collectively. I didn't care if they took them out for a nice evening meal or what they did with it.

Whatever is left in the funds I hope it is held in Trust for the girls college education.

IMO, there wouldn't have been a dime donated into either fund if it wasn't for those who knew and respected Dan and Diane Winkler. Or outsiders who knew that raising three children right out of the blue could bring a hardship.

imo
i didn't contribute to the fund... based on the appeal to donate, i wouldn't expect money go to the winklers' legal fees---

"One hundred percent of your gift will go to helping heal the hearts of the Winkler girls. The funds will be used to assist with the girls’ immediate needs such as appropriate counseling and care. Any funds remaining as the children graduate from high school will be available as a college fund."

'The fund is a Minor's Trust for the benefit of the Winkler children under the laws of Tennessee.

Again, thank you for willingness to help the Winkler girls."

http://www.thebible.net/modules.php?name=Read&cat=16&itemid=351 ...

imo.

[LisaM22]

i didn't contribute to the fund... based on the appeal to donate, i wouldn't expect money go to the winklers' legal fees---

"One hundred percent of your gift will go to helping heal the hearts of the Winkler girls. The funds will be used to assist with the girls’ immediate needs such as appropriate counseling and care. Any funds remaining as the children graduate from high school will be available as a college fund."

'The fund is a Minor's Trust for the benefit of the Winkler children under the laws of Tennessee.

Again, thank you for willingness to help the Winkler girls."

http://www.thebible.net/modules.php?name=Read&cat=16&itemid=351 ...

imo.

and one of those immediate needs was to keep a convicted killer from getting control of them imo

[LisaM22]

Simple isn't it?

Mary already knows crime pays. She receives and controls the monthly Social Security benefits that the three girls get because of their DEAD father that Mary blew away.:rolleyes:

Is she working? She is getting money from somewhere to buy those bodacious earrings and fru-fru clothes.

And what's up with Mary's wonderful lawyer? Dan's lawyer is doing the case pro bono but Farese-Turner wants the court to pay her part out of the funds.

imo

your right, mary wants part of the funds to go to her lawyer, not to the children - good point

[angellaw]

Justice was not served in this case, she is guilty as h3ll...IMO

She has not right to any $$ the children have or had..I would think..now mind you...I have not read the entire thread...but iIhave had stron feeling in this case since day 1...If $$ was taken, I would hope the "W's" have put it into some kind of trust for the children and Mary is not privy to the info..not that she should be.

Ok..That was MO only...here is where I am not totally up to date on this...does Mary have custody???? I have not heard that..I would pray not...again...MOO.

[angellaw]

your right, mary wants part of the funds to go to her lawyer, not to the children - good point

I did not read this post beofer I posted...but ITA with ya Lisa:thumbsup:

[VII]

just catching up on this case.

Dan "reconciled" with Mary and relinquished custody of the kids to her
but
did not relinquish custody of the van he purchased, instead of using a trade-in, drew money out of the CHurch acct for the down ...
so
why not give the van to Mary cuz it was purchased for the kids?
that is, if he's all about "doing the ~right~ thing.

Just one more "Dan" issue.
They told the kids that their Mom was in jail for robbing a bank :w00t:
Poor girls.
Now they know their grandfather/preacher is a liar and what will THAT do to their "trust" of him and anything that comes out of his mouth?
IMO
He should have taken those girls to counseling and told them the TRUTH from the git'go.

Does anyone know about counseling Mary and the girls may have secured?

TIA

7

[Poochie Pie]

i'd rather stick to the thread topic--- the funds--- than redo the trial and mary's crazy story about what happened that morning... she beattherap, not the 1st nor last to get away with murder...

i do agree with this statement of yours--- "Some with an ounce of a brain know" mary was protecting her children... it would take an ounce-size brain to believe That...

imo. Ahhhh.... beattherap.... My old Nemesis.. I resemble that remark re the "ounce size brain"... LOL... To be honest, I believe, IMO, that Mary would be looked at a bit differently had she committed her "crime" while DIRECTLY protecting the Children... Such as grabbing the gun while he was beating the girls and leaving marks on their legs.. or whilst he was bending over the crib and pinching the baby's nose to stop it from crying... Of course, these could be lies... but as we all know, there is always some truth in a lie.. Anyhoo.. I still respect your opinion as I always have, and hope all is well with you..

Poochie

[angellaw]

just catching up on this case.

Dan "reconciled" with Mary and relinquished custody of the kids to her
but
did not relinquish custody of the van he purchased, instead of using a trade-in, drew money out of the CHurch acct for the down ...
so
why not give the van to Mary cuz it was purchased for the kids?
that is, if he's all about "doing the ~right~ thing.

Just one more "Dan" issue.
They told the kids that their Mom was in jail for robbing a bank :w00t:
Poor girls.
Now they know their grandfather/preacher is a liar and what will THAT do to their "trust" of him and anything that comes out of his mouth?
IMO
He should have taken those girls to counseling and told them the TRUTH from the git'go.

Does anyone know about counseling Mary and the girls may have secured?

TIA

7
Wow.."7"...thanks for the insight. Like I said, I have not been following..but I do not agree with telling the children their mom was a bank robber...WYH....

IIRC...did not the oldest child "hear/see" something that morning, and she told them thir dad was "sick" before she took off for the ocean vacation....seems to me..lying runs in the family. These children know something is not right..no matter if they sae, or just lived through the days after..they know something is not right, and adult lying to them in just no right either. IMO

Again, thanks for the insight "7:...nice to met ya!

[Suzy Q]

Thanks, btr, for posting the exact wording from the Winkler Family Fund website.

[Poochie Pie]

mary hasn't asked the court to give Her the money... she hasn't even asked to be put in charge of the money...

i definitely remember one of the funds being for the needs of the children, counseling, and education... if the winklers used any of that money for the custody case legal fees, i think they were wrong to.

imo. Thank you, btr..!! A very fair and accurate post.. You are correct.. Mary hasn't asked the court to give her the money, and has never asked to be put in charge of the money... :smile:

Poochie

[LisaM22]

Wow.."7"...thanks for the insight. Like I said, I have not been following..but I do not agree with telling the children their mom was a bank robber...WYH....

IIRC...did not the oldest child "hear/see" something that morning, and she told them thir dad was "sick" before she took off for the ocean vacation....seems to me..lying runs in the family. These children know something is not right..no matter if they sae, or just lived through the days after..they know something is not right, and adult lying to them in just no right either. IMO

Again, thanks for the insight "7:...nice to met ya!

it may have been to protect the children from the truth, that their mother was in jail because she killed their father....

[LisaM22]

mary hasn't asked the court to give Her the money... she hasn't even asked to be put in charge of the money...

i definitely remember one of the funds being for the needs of the children, counseling, and education... if the winklers used any of that money for the custody case legal fees, i think they were wrong to.

imo.

then who does mary want the funds to go to, her lawyer and ..... she not only wants the left over funds, she is suing the children's grandparents for the legal fee's incurred to try and keep the children safe

[LisaM22]

Thank you, btr..!! A very fair and accurate post.. You are correct.. Mary hasn't asked the court to give her the money, and has never asked to be put in charge of the money... :smile:

Poochie

what exactly is she suing for then? I think we both know she wants the money or she would not be suing them imo

[Suzy Q]

The fox was guarding the hen house when it came to the children's money. An impartial third party not in anyone's pocket could be put in place to protect the little that is left. Dan never should have had such free access to it and there is no reason to assume Mary will get it either. Why punish the children? And a poster said Mary has balls. Yeah she does and it's past time she got 'em. She can't let their grandfather get away with this. Mama Bear indeed.

[4ever young]

Justice was not served in this case, she is guilty as h3ll...IMO

She has not right to any $$ the children have or had..I would think..now mind you...I have not read the entire thread...but iIhave had stron feeling in this case since day 1...If $$ was taken, I would hope the "W's" have put it into some kind of trust for the children and Mary is not privy to the info..not that she should be.

Ok..That was MO only...here is where I am not totally up to date on this...does Mary have custody???? I have not heard that..I would pray not...again...MOO.If money was taken it was put in trust?! Yeah it was taken, and given to Keith Ablow, a private investigator, and lawyers. A fact that was brought up in the most recent court, please do some research before posting. And yes, Mary is guilty, the jury found her guilty, again please review sone of the facts. TIA

[Poochie Pie]

If money was taken it was put in trust?! Yeah it was taken, and given to Keith Ablow, a private investigator, and lawyers. A fact that was brought up in the most recent court, please do some research before posting. And yes, Mary is guilty, the jury found her guilty, again please review sone of the facts. TIA Thank you, 4ever young... Yes.. Keith Ablow is a forensic psychiatrist who was paid $30,000.00 by Dan Winkler to meet with the children and testify against Mary in her murder trial.. He has (or had) his own TV show much like Dr. Phil.. Agree that Mary is guilty, and the jury found her guilty.. And Mary also admitted to being guilty.. Good post..

www.wreg.com/wreg-winkler-day-2,0,419128.story[/EMAIL]

Poochie

[beattherap]

what exactly is she suing for then? I think we both know she wants the money or she would not be suing them imo
from reading the articles, i understand she wants the money put into a court-controlled fund... she also wants misspent funds replaced...

there's no way She gets the funds...

i thought and still think she commited murder, but that wasn't the verdict... the children are entitled to a fair accounting and handling of the funds.

imo.

[GentleBreeze]

i didn't contribute to the fund... based on the appeal to donate, i wouldn't expect money go to the winklers' legal fees---

"One hundred percent of your gift will go to helping heal the hearts of the Winkler girls. The funds will be used to assist with the girls’ immediate needs such as appropriate counseling and care. Any funds remaining as the children graduate from high school will be available as a college fund."

'The fund is a Minor's Trust for the benefit of the Winkler children under the laws of Tennessee.

Again, thank you for willingness to help the Winkler girls."

http://www.thebible.net/modules.php?name=Read&cat=16&itemid=351 ...

imo.

I still think things that were spent were to help the girls.

"immediate needs such as" which is not very specific at all imo. Written more generically.

I felt by helping the custodians of the girls at the time I was certainly helping the girls. But in the back of my mind after I made the first donation Mary Winkler came to mind so after then I made my check payable to Diane and Dan Winkler.

Did Farese Turner have any witnesses that had donated that did not want the Winklers to get any of the fund? The main reason I gave is because I trusted the Winklers and I still do. Did they spend when they shouldn't have, I suppose that is true but I do not think it was an intentional act to steal the money from the children.

There wouldn't even be a fund if it wasn't for the Winklers.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

just catching up on this case.

Dan "reconciled" with Mary and relinquished custody of the kids to her
but
did not relinquish custody of the van he purchased, instead of using a trade-in, drew money out of the Church acct for the down ...
so
why not give the van to Mary cuz it was purchased for the kids?
that is, if he's all about "doing the ~right~ thing.

Just one more "Dan" issue.
They told the kids that their Mom was in jail for robbing a bank :w00t:
Poor girls.
Now they know their grandfather/preacher is a liar and what will THAT do to their "trust" of him and anything that comes out of his mouth?
IMO
He should have taken those girls to counseling and told them the TRUTH from the git'go.

Does anyone know about counseling Mary and the girls may have secured?

TIA

7

LOL! What did you expect them to tell them? "Ya Moma done been arrested for murder for shooting your own daddy in his back while he slept in his bed" "All that stuff she told you when you were beach bound was just a pack of lies."

They started counseling, therapy immediately after their father's death.

They sure need it. Poor Patricia remembers a lot and remembers that she and her sister was sitting on the floor in front of her parents bedroom door waiting for their mother to come out of the room after they heard the loud BOOM! Patrica saw her own father on the floor dying. You bet the two oldest kids need a lot of therapy. From what everyone said that knew them, Matthew's girls adored their father. They hugged on him all the time. Now Mary she had been chastized by the Elders for being so cold to her children.

PW remembers the phone being on the table too before Mary shut the door in her face and then later came out of the room yet when investigators got there the phone was unplug and sitting out of Matthew's reach.

The one who has consistently lied to these children is Mary Winkler.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

it may have been to protect the children from the truth, that their mother was in jail because she killed their father....

LOL! I really doubt that the girls would have known what a fraud is or check kiting. Heck I doubt Dan did either until MW did it.

imo

[Poochie Pie]

LOL! I really doubt that the girls would have known what a fraud is or check kiting. Heck I doubt Dan did either until MW did it.

imo Gentlebreeze, I don't think you give enough credit to the Winkler girls... They appeared very sharp and intelligent to me... Do you really believe that Dan Winkler couldn't have explained the money scheme that Mary unfortunately got involved in any other way than to tell them that "Mary robbed a Bank"..?? You and I both have grandchildren.. If my daughter had become a victim of the Nigerian scheme, I assure you that I could explain it to them WITHOUT telling them their Mother had "robbed a bank".. and they would understand it.. As far as your comment about doubting that Dan knew what fraud was until MW did it, that remains to be seen... IMO

Poochie

[taylor63]

If God forbid,Mary win's yet another case and gets these funds. I just wonder who will oversee her spending? I just hope a child advocate, or children's right's attorney gets involved in the interest of these poor children. I don't think Mary should be able to profit from her crime.

[taylor63]

I agree 100%, suing the parents of the man you were found guilty of killing, that is a true sign of a sociopath

I remember during the victim's impact portion of the trial that Matthew's mother got on the stand, and looked Mary right in the eye, and not only talked about her own personal grief over losing her son, but also how Mary had hurt so many people including her own children.

Do you think Mary had any shame or remorse over that? No she responded by smiling smuggly at the mother of the man she shot and killed. I remember that clearly because I watched it,and I will never forget it. It was one of the most coldhearted and cruel behaviour I have ever seen on the part of a defendant in a murder trial.

I consider myself a pretty sympathetic person but I don't know if I could ever feel sympathy for this woman. How anyone can is really beyond my comprehension.

[VII]

it may have been to protect the children from the truth, that their mother was in jail because she killed their father....

So
How long do you "protect" these children from such a horrific truth?
at what point do we tell the children,
the truth?

I'll integrate a personal experience in the formation of an opinion, here

As a child, I was "protected from a truth" or 2
It doesn't matter WHEN you tell the child, the "TRUTH" is still going to slam dunk them.
imo
telling "the truth" early on is the BEST way to deal with it.
I was left devastated and didn't know who or what to "trust" afterward.
It took years and years to recover, and it still haunts me.

There was a best way to deal with this, of course, starting with Mary NOT shooting Matt in the first place ...
but as the deed was done
the court reached it's ruling
Mary "served her time"
at what POINT has the best interest of the children been addressed
by ALL parties.
Yes, Dan and Dianne tried to retain custody
but when he decided to "relinquish" to Mary, he/they, should have, at that point, circled the wagons and set aside their personal hurts to help the children deal with all these changes.
As adults, they COULD/SHOULD have done that.

As it is, the kids are left with a dead father, a mother with a rap sheet, and grandparents who demonstrate their hurt/hate toward their mother....
and guess what
the KIDS love all of these people.

So Sad for the girls.

Doing the right thing is never easy but it can be done.

jmo

7

[VII]

LOL! What did you expect them to tell them? "Ya Moma done been arrested for murder for shooting your own daddy in his back while he slept in his bed" "All that stuff she told you when you were beach bound was just a pack of lies."

They started counseling, therapy immediately after their father's death.

They sure need it. Poor Patricia remembers a lot and remembers that she and her sister was sitting on the floor in front of her parents bedroom door waiting for their mother to come out of the room after they heard the loud BOOM! Patrica saw her own father on the floor dying. You bet the two oldest kids need a lot of therapy. From what everyone said that knew them, Matthew's girls adored their father. They hugged on him all the time. Now Mary she had been chastized by the Elders for being so cold to her children.

PW remembers the phone being on the table too before Mary shut the door in her face and then later came out of the room yet when investigators got there the phone was unplug and sitting out of Matthew's reach.

The one who has consistently lied to these children is Mary Winkler.

imo

well, I imagine at SOME point, the girls were told "Your Father has died and gone to Heaven"

how did he die? they would ask
How did the Sr Winkler's answer that question?
ummmm
some deranged woman in a wig and wedged heels shot him in the back?
who was the woman, they would ask ....
OH, just some lady?
gimme a break
building a mountain of lies does NOT protect regardless of how you slice and dice it.
I'm SURE the children would appreciate HONESTY in the midst of spousal abuse, scams, miserable parents and you name it.
Just ONE honest person among them could make a huge difference in how they approach relationships for the rest of their lives.

When they reach the age of majority, they are more than likely going to separate themselves from the entire LOT
inCLUDING their Mother.

The Judge, Chancellor or whatEVer is just doing a job, according to the law. I wouldn't trade jobs with him for the world.

7

[LisaM22]

well, I imagine at SOME point, the girls were told "Your Father has died and gone to Heaven"
<snip>

7

yes, like I said, you can't hide the truth forever, I believe they did tell the girls when they felt the time was right, but at first they told them a white lie until they knew more, trying to turn the grandparents into evil people for trying to protect the children is just plain sad

[4ever young]

People do lie to kids to protect them, but there is usually a way to be truthful and not hurt them, the remark about mom robbing a bank would be scary, not reassuring, and their granddad is a writer and preacher, words are his stock & trade

[GentleBreeze]

Gentlebreeze, I don't think you give enough credit to the Winkler girls... They appeared very sharp and intelligent to me... Do you really believe that Dan Winkler couldn't have explained the money scheme that Mary unfortunately got involved in any other way than to tell them that "Mary robbed a Bank"..?? You and I both have grandchildren.. If my daughter had become a victim of the Nigerian scheme, I assure you that I could explain it to them WITHOUT telling them their Mother had "robbed a bank".. and they would understand it.. As far as your comment about doubting that Dan knew what fraud was until MW did it, that remains to be seen... IMO

Poochie

I give plenty of credit to the girls but they were very young when this happened.

I don't see why Dan would know the correct terminology of a check kiting scheme since when it came known that MW was doing it countless posters right here on this site had no clue what "check kiting" meant and link after link was pulled up so that we could learn. I certainly did not know but then I have never tried to scam anyone much less a bank. If I had discovered that I had been taken by a Nigerian scam I would have immediately notified the bank and security. I certainly wouldn't continue with a check kiting scheme for three months after then.

She was bilking money out of the bank so imo for very young children to understand the "she robbed a bank" is totally understandable to say to them imo.

I think at the time Dan was trying to protect Mary and the children. He was holding her secret that she had been arrested for murder instead of robbing a bank as he phrased it. He did not want them to have to face that terrible trauma it would cause compounded by the loss of their father but they had to tell them something to cover why she was being held in jail. Learning that it WAS their own mother that had killed their father and also that she had bilked money from the bank through her check kitting scheme was way too much. So he picked the lesser of the two degrees of severities and did not want to tell them that MW had murdered their father.

It is very logical that they were trying to protect them, imo.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

People do lie to kids to protect them, but there is usually a way to be truthful and not hurt them, the remark about mom robbing a bank would be scary, not reassuring, and their granddad is a writer and preacher, words are his stock & trade

Oh so you think Dan should have told the real reason MW was in jail and not home with the kids? Just let already traumatized kids, one who had seen her father on the floor dying, and then who were whisked away on a fun trip and lied to the entire time, should have just been doubly traumatized?:confused: Just blurt it out. "1. Oh yeah, your father is dead and 2. your own mother killed him and they have arrested her for murder."

I think it was far better to water it down with "robbed a bank" than telling them their own mother killed their father as he slept and there really wasn't an intruder who did it

Dan did the right thing.

imo

[taylor63]

yes, like I said, you can't hide the truth forever, I believe they did tell the girls when they felt the time was right, but at first they told them a white lie until they knew more, trying to turn the grandparents into evil people for trying to protect the children is just plain sad

It's not just sad, it's downright cruel, and vicious as well.

[MysteryMachine]

I'll never forget when Patricia testified Mary changing seats with her attorney so she would be sitting on the aisle and staring Patricia down in an attempt to scare her from telling the truth. The jurors in that trial were a joke. However, the girls only have their mother left and as we have seen and know, children usually go to their abusers. Did Mary abuse the kids? No, I don't think so. Was life with her husband a picnic?? Probably not. Be all that as it may, my point is Mary has one heck of a set of male body parts and it doesn't surprise me that she is doing this.

But, Mary, and those who support you, realize this...one day your daughters will realize what you did to their dad.

[4ever young]

I think the children know their mom shot their dad, how do you think they could NOT know it? But could we possibly stay on topic, the granddad's handling of the girls' money? TIA

[LisaM22]

I think the children know their mom shot their dad, how do you think they could NOT know it? But could we possibly stay on topic, the granddad's handling of the girls' money? TIA

I am sure they do, and that has to be scary at times for them, especially when mommy gets angry - jmho

[GentleBreeze]

I am sure they do, and that has to be scary at times for them, especially when mommy gets angry - jmho

Oh now of course they do but when it happened and MW was telling them "that a bad MAN hurt daddy" they didn't know it then. At that time they believed their lying mom, the same one that said she called 911 and that their daddy was going to be just fine.

Strange isn't it. Their father was supposed to be so bad according to Mary:rolleyes: yet all along on the fun trip who was on the minds of the children? Their father.

Everything that the Winkler family did was done to protect and support these children.

imo

[LisaM22]

People do lie to kids to protect them, but there is usually a way to be truthful and not hurt them, the remark about mom robbing a bank would be scary, not reassuring, and their granddad is a writer and preacher, words are his stock & trade

scarier then the truth, that she was in jail because she killed their father, come on, get real

[LisaM22]

Oh now of course they do but when it happened and MW was telling them "that a bad MAN hurt daddy" they didn't know it then. At that time they believed their lying mom, the same one that said she called 911 and that their daddy was going to be just fine.

Strange isn't it. Their father was supposed to be so bad according to Mary:rolleyes: yet all along on the fun trip who was on the minds of the children? Their father.

Everything that the Winkler family did was done to protect and support these children.

imo

you wont hear any of the supporters of this killer saying a thing about Mary lying to the children, just shows that mary was already trying to create an excuse back then, too bad for her she got caught before she had a chance to get rid of the shotgun, then again her abuse "excuse" worked almost as well it seems - jmho

[Suzy Q]

The Winkler Family Fund was set up as a minor's trust with Eddie Thompson and four others involved (see link posted by beatherap.) Where are they in all of this? Dan testified it was the church's money. Church members were check signers. Dan was a check signer. I googled but was unable to find out what the guidelines are for a minor's trust in Tennessee.

[beattherap]

The Winkler Family Fund was set up as a minor's trust with Eddie Thompson and four others involved (see link posted by beatherap.) Where are they in all of this? Dan testified it was the church's money. Church members were check signers. Dan was a check signer. I googled but was unable to find out what the guidelines are for a minor's trust in Tennessee.
i'm still not 100% clear on the different funds... i Think the church fund is under different control than the WFF... i Think dan says the church fund, which i don't remember hearing about during the trial, is church money...

imo, the wff, the thompson trustee one, was absolutely portrayed to the public as for the girls --- “One hundred percent of your gift will go to healing the hearts of the Winkler girls." ... there wasn't any addendum, 'Which includes keeping them out of the hands of their killer mom'...

the church fund, i don't know.

imo.

[Suzy Q]

i'm still not 100% clear on the different funds... i Think the church fund is under different control than the WFF... i Think dan says the church fund, which i don't remember hearing about during the trial, is church money...

imo, the wff, the thompson trustee one, was absolutely portrayed to the public as for the girls --- “One hundred percent of your gift will go to healing the hearts of the Winkler girls." ... there wasn't any addendum, 'Which includes keeping them out of the hands of their killer mom'...

the church fund, i don't know.

imo.Thanks, btr. It is confusing to sort out, especially with the limited info available online. There are three funds and Dan has six different personal bank accounts. If money was comingled, it further clouds the issue. I wish the reporter doing the live blog would have spared us the details of where they had lunch and what color Mary was wearing that day and given the actual meat of the hearings.

[LisaM22]

i'm still not 100% clear on the different funds... i Think the church fund is under different control than the WFF... i Think dan says the church fund, which i don't remember hearing about during the trial, is church money...

imo, the wff, the thompson trustee one, was absolutely portrayed to the public as for the girls --- “One hundred percent of your gift will go to healing the hearts of the Winkler girls." ... there wasn't any addendum, 'Which includes keeping them out of the hands of their killer mom'...

the church fund, i don't know.

imo.

they never once said the money would go to mary to spend on the girls, the children can go see grandma and grandpa if they need something unless mary plans to keep the children from seeing them, mary and her lawyers want the money, it was even stated that mary was paying the lawyers WITH the funds if she got them

[4ever young]

Even if the granddad was as poor as a church mouse, get it, church mouse? it would have been wrong for him to use the girls' money on a private investigator to check up on their mom ($3300), Keith Ablow ($30,000) and over $100k to lawyers. But he is well off, has no mortgage because he lives in a parsonage and his salary is $74k a year, I was reading this on line today. That is a lotta money in Tennessee.

[Poochie Pie]

Even if the granddad was as poor as a church mouse, get it, church mouse? it would have been wrong for him to use the girls' money on a private investigator to check up on their mom ($3300), Keith Ablow ($30,000) and over $100k to lawyers. But he is well off, has no mortgage because he lives in a parsonage and his salary is $74k a year, I was reading this on line today. That is a lotta money in Tennessee. That's a lotta money where I come from too, 4ever young..!! The saddest thing is... He spent a LOT of money trying to keep the girls from their Mother, and then turned around one day and just gave them back to her... No explanation (at least a reasonable one) that I have ever heard....

Poochie

[LisaM22]

That's a lotta money where I come from too, 4ever young..!! The saddest thing is... He spent a LOT of money trying to keep the girls from their Mother, and then turned around one day and just gave them back to her... No explanation (at least a reasonable one) that I have ever heard....

Poochie

the grandparents spent a lotta money trying to keep the children safe from a convicted killer...

[Suzy Q]

That's a lotta money where I come from too, 4ever young..!! The saddest thing is... He spent a LOT of money trying to keep the girls from their Mother, and then turned around one day and just gave them back to her... No explanation (at least a reasonable one) that I have ever heard....

Poochie
Yes, that is very odd. And you bring up a point that seems to be lost on many.

[LisaM22]

That's a lotta money where I come from too, 4ever young..!! The saddest thing is... He spent a LOT of money trying to keep the girls from their Mother, and then turned around one day and just gave them back to her... No explanation (at least a reasonable one) that I have ever heard....

Poochie

they did not have a chance, even OJ got custody of his children in the end, they tried until they knew it was useless and then hoped by dropping the custody battle with the killer that the killer would keep the children in their lives, it was a gamble, at least that way they could watch over them, course it doesn't look like mary has any such intentions based on this lawsuit, mary's ugly has come out again and she is not gonna play nice it seems, too bad for the childrens sakes one would hope she would, now the supporters of the killer want the parents to pay her large sums of money that are no longer in the fund, she wants to pay her lawyers with those funds? what is up with mary?

[Adalena935]

This woman's murder trial verdict ranks high on the list of worst jury decisions in recent history. To say she has guts is an understatement. She's an outrage in my opinion. My belief she wanted the kids for money and when has she not been granted her wims, I ask. pfft.

I hope she doesn't shotgun the children to death one day so people can chime in the commonly heard refrain; "..why didn't somebody do something....?"

This is precisely how murderers are allowed to run free to do their evil deeds again and again. Happens all too often as we've seen in so many crimes where people have been in trouble with the law and committed crimes in the past and continue to in their future with alarming catastrophe.

What a legacy the jury gave these poor children not to mention the murdered man's son.

[Adalena935]

I remember during the victim's impact portion of the trial that Matthew's mother got on the stand, and looked Mary right in the eye, and not only talked about her own personal grief over losing her son, but also how Mary had hurt so many people including her own children.

Do you think Mary had any shame or remorse over that? No she responded by smiling smuggly at the mother of the man she shot and killed. I remember that clearly because I watched it,and I will never forget it. It was one of the most coldhearted and cruel behaviour I have ever seen on the part of a defendant in a murder trial.

I consider myself a pretty sympathetic person but I don't know if I could ever feel sympathy for this woman. How anyone can is really beyond my comprehension.

bolding mine>

A resounding No. I agree with everything you've said. I believe she is evil by choice and will remain so.

[4ever young]

Snipped for length
Adalena posted,
What a legacy the jury gave these poor children not to mention the murdered man's son.[/QUOTE]Who is the murdered man, and who is his son?

[4ever young]

Wasn't the money for the benefit of the children? Is it Mary's fault there is no money left in the fund? SHe didn't spend it. I gather you are implying that the children are in some kind of danger from their mother. Do you really think she will kill them? Do you really believe that the grandparents think she will?
Good post, thank you.

[HALE 2d GNAW]

Yep! Disgusting case - sounded to me like the jury was so conservative the idea of wearing a wig and having sex was considered so perverted it justified killing your husband. Unbelievable.

Well one mint condition platform shoe seemed to do the "trick" IYKWIM.

It didn't seem to matter that there was no proof the victim ever purchased, presented or provoked the murderess to don wigs, heels, lingerie. One manly wife's last chance murder-4-romance abuse confession seemed to seal the lenient deal. :barf:

After reading all the Mary Murderer support posts, I now understand why there is support for the psycho that murdered Steve McNair. Had she lived, she would have walked free just like Mary Winkler IMVHO.

[HALE 2d GNAW]

The Winkler Family Fund was set up as a minor's trust with Eddie Thompson and four others involved (see link posted by beatherap.) Where are they in all of this? Dan testified it was the church's money. Church members were check signers. Dan was a check signer. I googled but was unable to find out what the guidelines are for a minor's trust in Tennessee.


If the funds were spent illegally, wouldn't the IRS or the Tennessee Dept of Revenue bring charges against those that perpetrated the fraud? Shouldn't the parents of the murdered Matthew Winkler be afforded the same due process that the murderess, Mary Winkler was afforded? Perhaps the public does't know everything about the donated funds? Perhaps Matthew's parents or his children suffered so terribly that the funds had to be used to survive the turmoil?

Unless the legal system finds the murdered man's parents guilty of some crime, they deserve the same presumption of sweetness, innocence, protection and legal defense afforded the murderess IMVHO

[LisaM22]

Wasn't the money for the benefit of the children? Is it Mary's fault there is no money left in the fund? SHe didn't spend it. I gather you are implying that the children are in some kind of danger from their mother. Do you really think she will kill them? Do you really believe that the grandparents think she will?

Mary is complaining that they spent the money on lawyers for the children when mary herself plans to use the funds for her lawyers if she wins this case, what say you?

[LisaM22]

why Mary would even sue the grandparents is beyond me, guess maybe the parents should file a wrongful death suit against Mary, Mary was already found guilty by the courts, it would be a slam dunk if they decide to go that route imo

[Suzy Q]

why Mary would even sue the grandparents is beyond me, guess maybe the parents should file a wrongful death suit against Mary, Mary was already found guilty by the courts, it would be a slam dunk if they decide to go that route imoThey did file a wrongful death lawsuit, then dropped it.

[Suzy Q]

Snipped for length
Adalena posted,
What a legacy the jury gave these poor children not to mention the murdered man's son.Who is the murdered man, and who is his son?[/QUOTE]

I didn't understand who the poster was referring to either.

[Suzy Q]

If the funds were spent illegally, wouldn't the IRS or the Tennessee Dept of Revenue bring charges against those that perpetrated the fraud? Shouldn't the parents of the murdered Matthew Winkler be afforded the same due process that the murderess, Mary Winkler was afforded? Perhaps the public does't know everything about the donated funds? Perhaps Matthew's parents or his children suffered so terribly that the funds had to be used to survive the turmoil?

Unless the legal system finds the murdered man's parents guilty of some crime, they deserve the same presumption of sweetness, innocence, protection and legal defense afforded the murderess IMVHOI don't know who oversees such matters, and as I said in my post, I was unable to find out anything just being a googler. And yes, I absolutely believe everyone is entitled to due process and a vigorous defense. I am quite the "liberal."

[4ever young]

They did file a wrongful death lawsuit, then dropped it.IIRC, they dropped it at the same time they returned the girls to Mary, never heard the reason for doing either things.

The children have an attorney who has also filed on their behalf against the granddad, and if I could just remind everyone what beat therap pointed out, Mary is not asking for the money, or even control of it.

[4ever young]

Well one mint condition platform shoe seemed to do the "trick" IYKWIM.

It didn't seem to matter that there was no proof the victim ever purchased, presented or provoked the murderess to don wigs, heels, lingerie. One manly wife's last chance murder-4-romance abuse confession seemed to seal the lenient deal. :barf:

After reading all the Mary Murderer support posts, I now understand why there is support for the psycho that murdered Steve McNair. Had she lived, she would have walked free just like Mary Winkler IMVHO.Please stay on topic, join a S McNair thread if you wish, we are discussing the girls money in this thread, TIA

[Mel]

You missed a lot. Details actually matter.

details DO matter...Matthew had a full bladder when Mary murdered him...she claimed he'd been up & gone & yelled at the baby....that poor man was asleep, when Mary decided to shoot him....there was absolutely NO evidence that proved Mary killed him in self defense...that bulky porn-shoe-looking thing could have been ordered online prior to the trial...in fact, i'd be willing to bet it was...Mary should have rotted in prison, but she got away with cold blooded murder....not one bit of evidence to show he'd EVER abused Mary...nothing, but a swollen jaw, from some dental work....a couple of disgruntled neighbors who didn't like Matthew getting upset over the neighbors' yappin dogs.....the jury foreman was an idiot...he out & out said, it was the women that decided she wasn't guilty of 1st degree murder...simply because of that stupid shoe...he even stated, after the trial, he couldn't do anything with the women to make them change their mind, & look at other evidence....what a loser; the whole lot of them...

i don't care what the ex-inlaws did with the money...Mary knows how to make money...she's real good at check kiting:glare:

[Mel]

maybe they decided to tell the children that was why mommy was in jail, maybe they thought was better then telling them the truth at their young age, mommy is in jail because she killed your daddy, ya can't protect them from the truth forever, though sadly - jmho

and who knows, might not be completly a lie, that may be why she killed their father, we will never know - jmho

Matthew was getting very close to finding out about Mary's check kiting...the bank was demanding to talk to Matthew, about their checking account, just days prior to the murder...Mary couldn't put them off any longer...she was getting desperate...afterall, Mary handled the finances, NOT Matthew...that was proven in court...they went thru gobs of bank statements, showing cancelled checks...(the joint checking acct)....Matthew's signature was on none of the checks written..

again, i dont care what the ex-inlaws did with the money...

[taylor63]

You guys, hey. I thought this site or this thread was to discuss the missing funds. INstead it seems to be a thread to bash MW. She has paid her debt to society and she is now free.
Deal. I'm sorry to see so many posts disparging her character here. Especially after all the abuse the children and her were put through.

BugO

Well this is a messageboard, and being that it is, I believe we have a right to state our opinion. In my opinion,there was no proof Mary Winkler was ever abused. I also believe she should have been convicted of first degree murder. And I do not believe she has paid her debt to society. I think she should be sitting in a jail cell for at least a couple of more decades. I also believe it is the height of audacity and cruelty to shoot someone's son in the back,which resulted in his death,and then turn around and sue them a few short years later.

[beattherap]

You guys, hey. I thought this site or this thread was to discuss the missing funds. INstead it seems to be a thread to bash MW. She has paid her debt to society and she is now free.
Deal. I'm sorry to see so many posts disparging her character here. Especially after all the abuse the children and her were put through.

BugO
if you Really want this to be about the funds, you'd skip the 'all the abuse the children and her were put through'... you must know that many people don't think she was abused and even more don't believe the children were abused.

imo.u