June 20-21 Weekend #1

[gaelicpeas]

I'm behind (again), so if this was said...sorry

The only problem I have with that scenerio...is....If this was planned out...they certainly would have come up with a more foolproof plan.Actually, I think their plan would have worked... EXCEPT for the fact that Cindy is just so... um.. I dunno.. SPOCK looking. I think she screwed up the plan, IMO.

[sammy62]

I was working on this screen shot when lightning stuck and my power went out. Power is back and here it is http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/hammer1.jpg :chicken:

thats the cindy finger

[anon-o-miss]

Although it seems unnatural for a woman to kill her own children it is not uncommon. More than 200 women kill their children in the US every year, according to a recent study by the American Anthropological Association, http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/14935/why_some_mothers_kill_their_children.html?cat=17
I wasn't referring to women killing her children when I said it was rare. I was talking about a woman killing their child duct taping, trashbagging, possibly chloroforming, dumping them like garbage in the woods on their way out to PARTAY, not reporting them missing, and showing a complete lack of concern for their childs whereabouts, is rare. It's not often you get all that in one case.

[crimeq]

Am I the only one here that thinks this whole thing was staged? A missing child to make money? To me, that is the only thing that makes sense of all the players' actions. JMO

Gaelic, I've come around to thinking more this way, but I waver on that being the initial plan of Casey's, OR Cindy's plan once she realized Caylee was dead--how to make lemonade out of lemons.

It seems clear to me that C&G were into coverup mode so quickly, they simply had to know something concrete early-on.

[enigma™]

Maybe, but do you think Team Jose might be Team Hosebee by the time we get to trial? (Lyons)

Now that Lyons is on the "team", I see Jose's name as bye-azz... as in, ta ta, your services are no longer needed "water boy" (thanks for that, DT).

[*MoonRider*]

Actually, I think their plan would have worked... EXCEPT for the fact that Cindy is just so... um.. I dunno.. SPOCK looking. I think she screwed up the plan, IMO.
:lol: Here's an excerpt from MotherCluckers Weblog
"The Queen winced until the points in her eyebrows became two straight lines." http://motherclucker.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/the-tale-of-king-george-and-queen-cynthia-part-iv/

[Chardonnay]

I was working on this screen shot when lightning stuck and my power went out. Power is back and here it is http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/hammer1.jpg :chicken:

Did you notice she wears her wedding ring on "Lee's" finger?

[anon-o-miss]

I'm afraid the jury will never see her lack of emotion. Casey will surely receive some training prior to her trial when and where to cry, how to act, etc., and I believe she is a fine mime as most psychopaths are, and all she needs is to be cued by someone when to appear to be whatever. She makes a fine appearance; doesn't at all look like someone who would murder anybody let alone her own child IMO. If the jury never hears her voice and never sees her like we've seen her, that may be all she needs to keep her from the needle.
Well they better get on it because they are almost a year in the game with her and it hasn't gotten any better. In fact, I think she manages to get MORE inappropriate in court as time goes on.

[*MoonRider*]

thats the cindy finger
Check out the bling.

[sammy62]

Well, imo, things were a hot mess in that home long before Casey reached legal age. Heck, neither George nor Cindy behave like grown ups, so it was impossible for them to role model anything beyond their own adolescent, deceitful, self-absorbed behavior. The situation at Casa Anthony was too far gone by the time Caylee arrived, imo. She was the fuse. The fire ignited. It was just a matter of time, imo.

My point is, I think it's off the mark to apply the same concepts that work in normal, functioning families to the Anthonys.

I think that is why we are all having problems with this. We are trying to put ourselves in these dysfunctional people's lives. Thats why I cannot go with the killing on Monday afternoon. I need to imagine furious anger to imagine how anyone could do this.

One good thing came out of this. I have learned to spell dysfunctional. lol :tongueside:

[crimeq]

:seeya: Hi everyone!!!
I totally agree. This video, in my opinion gives the most insight into Casey. She wipes her eye to hide a smile when Cindy mentions how sick and upset everyone is ("Lee's been sick"). Then when Cindy says they're not doing good because someone told them today that Caylee was dead, you can actually see a reaction on Casey's face. When Cindy goes on to say that they think Caylee drowned her face relaxes a little then she says "surprise, surprise". Casey was nervous for a second that maybe someone knew something but then relaxed at the drowning theory, she knew Caylee hadn't drowned so she went back to her, they have nothing on me, mindset.

Wasn't this also when Casey made the comment, "I'm so frushtrated I can't even swallow, it hurts."

IIRC that came immediately on the heels of Cindy's comments about Lee being sick ... Casey immediately has to get the "sick" focus back on herself. Who was it who recently disclosed the Casey was "sick" a lot?

[*MoonRider*]

Good night peeps, DH will be home soon. :seeya:

[sammy62]

Check out the bling.

I hate to admit this.....what is a bling?

[*MoonRider*]

I hate to admit this.....what is a bling?
Bling-bling (or simply bling) is a slang term in hip hop culture referring to flashy or elaborate jewelry and ornamented accessories that are carried, worn, or installed,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bling-bling

[Citygirl]

Not to worry, I won't. The majority of us are here for the right reasons. Some others.....not so much.:wink:


..and some of us could be flyin other defenses to see if anything sticks with a few posters..if so..it may fly with the jury..I'm sure that's what some here are doin tonight.
The others of us have gone over all this evidence and watched all the live TV and all the clips and have come to the same conclusion the jury will..Casey Anthony..Guilty of Murder in the First Degree..

[Snoopy50]

Now that Lyons is on the "team", I see Jose's name as bye-azz... as in, ta ta, your services are no longer needed "water boy" (thanks for that, DT).
I think you are 105% correct too.:thumbsup:

[Snoopy50]

..and some of us could be flyin other defenses to see if anything sticks with a few posters..if so..it may fly with the jury..I'm sure that's what some here are doin tonight.
The others of us have gone over all this evidence and watched all the live TV and all the clips and have come to the same conclusion the jury will..Casey Anthony..Guilty of Murder in the First Degree.. From your lips to God's ears.

[sunstar]

Very good points, Button.... Casey does not come across as a crazed killer. The prosecution will present all the facts, that will inevitably lead to Casey. But at the same time, they will have to do something that will get her to "crack" emotionally at the table. JMO
(bolding mine)

A nice peeled raw onion inside Baez's briefcase setting on top the defense table, maybe? :laugh:

[spiritwolf46]

Did you notice she wears her wedding ring on "Lee's" finger?

She will say it doesn't fit on her ring finger anymore due to all the weight she lost not eating (hmmm.....crab puffs come to mind) and all the water she drinks.

Who is the ring finger in that family again? We all know which one is Lee! ROFL!

[impartial]

I agree with Jester here. If you're going to give something then give it with grace. It's my sense that each and every time Cindy babysat it came with a heavy price. They knew Casey was a wild child and had to be in perpetual motion, get out of the house, run free once in a while.

Who knows what would've happened if she got a couple nights out with no pressure, no emotional blackmail? Maybe Casey would've gotten worse, but maybe better.

I just think those parents sucked the big one and even while doing "favors" were cruel.

They most likely encouraged her to have the baby and most likely told her things would be OK, that they would help. Who the heck knows?

Oh well. Y'all can yell at me now. hee hee.


Add to that the demoralization of her in front of her friends, Cindy telling Caylee to call her Mommy ... Caylee was used by Cindy to control Casey, to demean Casey, to run Casey's self-image into the ground. Anyone who wonders why Casey was a pathological liar can look to Cindy for their answer. It is readily apparent that Casey has low self-esteem issues, and Cindy hit where she knew it would hurt. :sneaky:

IMO

[gaelicpeas]

Gaelic, I've come around to thinking more this way, but I waver on that being the initial plan of Casey's, OR Cindy's plan once she realized Caylee was dead--how to make lemonade out of lemons.

It seems clear to me that C&G were into coverup mode so quickly, they simply had to know something concrete early-on.I dunno.. the whole missing children search back in March.. setting up a myspace alert within hours on July 15/16... the behavior of the whole faimily... the foundation.. all just points to one thing IMO.

[sunstar]

Now that Lyons is on the "team", I see Jose's name as bye-azz... as in, ta ta, your services are no longer needed "water boy" (thanks for that, DT).

You think she'll be the one questioning the witnesses during the trial? I believe the "scientific" witnesses will be LKB's but I thought the other ones Baez would question/cross-examine. :shrug: MOO

[spiritwolf46]

From your lips to God's ears.

Again, Snoop, thank you so very much for sharing with us all that you do. It is very appreciated. :)

[gaelicpeas]

:lol: Here's an excerpt from MotherCluckers Weblog
"The Queen winced until the points in her eyebrows became two straight lines." http://motherclucker.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/the-tale-of-king-george-and-queen-cynthia-part-iv/lol... that was a great story.. I read all 12 episodes...

[Snoopy50]

Again, Snoop, thank you so very much for sharing with us all that you do. It is very appreciated. :)
You are most welcome. It's always a pleasure posting with you Spirit.:seeya:

[Chardonnay]

ITA Casey needed time off from what? Time off? Her life was already a constant vacation--no job, no responsibilities, car furnished, food furnished, clothing, medical care for Caylee. What did she do that she needed time off from? Double Gee.

IIRC, Remember what CA said, that KC lied about working so she could spend more time with Caylee..:tonguewag:

[impartial]

You think she'll be the one questioning the witnesses during the trial? I believe the "scientific" witnesses will be LKB's but I thought the other ones Baez would question/cross-examine. :shrug: MOO


Lyons would be a fool to let Baez take any witnesses ...

IMO

[Snoopy50]

Lyons would be a fool to let Baez take any witnesses ...

IMO
Um...do you....uh....really, um, think so?:wink:

[desmom]

Cindy didn't have to look after Cayley while she was asleep during the evening, but it would have been a lot more civil if she had told Casey that she was home anyway, and would be willing to watch Cayley one night a week so Casey could go out (without constantly phoning her). Jesse and TonE (and others, I think) reported that every evening Casey was out, Cindy phoned and told her to get home. Maybe Casey concocted evening work so she could just have one night off now and then.

Phone calls from Cindy each time Casey was out would not prevent Casey from getting pregnant again. I think it was controlling behavior. Cindy was afraid of letting Casey grow up, afraid of empty nest syndrome, and afraid of having nothing in her life except George. I don't believe Casey was pregnant a second time, I think that was her attempt to interfere with another relationship.

Was Caylee a sound sleeper or was she a light sleeper? Would a car horn, barking dog or door slamming wake her? Did she get up for drinks of water?

After reading the text messages between Casey and Amy, IMO, Casey went out 3, 4 and sometimes 5 nights a week without Caylee.

IMO, the phone calls from Cindy was because they had learned Casey lied about working at Sports Authority and knew she lied about working the evening of May 25 when Cindy saw Casey in her uniform she posted on myspace....the American Flag at the Anything but Clothes party.

jmo

[spiritwolf46]

You are most welcome. It's always a pleasure posting with you Spirit.:seeya:

You, too, my dear!!

Looks like this is going to be one long year , if the trial will not start for another year, doesn't it?

[enigma™]

You think she'll be the one questioning the witnesses during the trial? I believe the "scientific" witnesses will be LKB's but I thought the other ones Baez would question/cross-examine. :shrug: MOO


No, I think she is only there to get the DP off the table, or, when the verdict is "guilty", to refute anything that may point to the murderess deserving the DP. She has a role, it will not come into play unless a guilty verdict is rendered.

[jammies]

Glad that I am not the only one.

Also, hey Snoop! Thanks for the updates from what you have known! Appreciated!


Make that 3 of us, spirit!

Thanks to Snoopy too!

Oh, and many thanks to Des for her daily "one year ago" posts.

[Chardonnay]

Good points. Remember that Jesse said he took her to see Santa because "They" were to busy to go to the mall?

I could be wrong, but I thought Jesse dressed up as Santa.. jmo

[Snoopy50]

You, too, my dear!!

Looks like this is going to be one long year , if the trial will not start for another year, doesn't it?
Yes it will. In light of Lyons just coming on board and the fact that this IS a DP case, wouldn't you think the defense needs all the extra time to prepare the OC? I want her to have a good defense, and a fair trial, no glitches that might make an appeal successful. What do you think?

[spiritwolf46]

I don't think Caylee would ever be put to bed in anything other than pajamas or a nightgown. This kid had a wardrobe that most adult women don't have. She had an outfit for every occasion. Nope, Cindy would never put her to bed in shorts. I believe that after Cindy and Caylee's swim, Cindy put her in the pink "Trouble" top and the shorts found with her remains. After Casey came home and the big fight ensued, Casey grabbed Caylee and stormed out. Caylee didn't live through the night, IMO. I don't think that George ever saw them on the 16th. He says that because Cindy grabbed him where it hurts and told him what to say.

Sad and haunting as it is, MyCharlie, I completely agree with you here.

Geo lied through his teeth. He has changed his story a couple of times that I know of now. He never saw them that next day or any other day he would like for us to believe. It was cover up mode for the OC and that is all they care about.

Poor Caylee. :crying:

[impartial]

Um...do you....uh....really, um, think so?:wink:


Lyons is no fool ... but even as I typed that, I wondered to myself if she will allow him some peripheral witnesses. I wouldn't ... no way, no how. I guess it depends on whether whoever is funding this team has a strong say so on whether he will be actively participating in the trial.

IMO

[Snoopy50]

Make that 3 of us, spirit!

Thanks to Snoopy too!

Oh, and many thanks to Des for her daily "one year ago" posts.

Hi Jammies!:seeya:
I so appreciate Desmom and all her info, she is a peach. So many of these posters go the extra mile to provide links and information, all of which I am grateful for.

[spiritwolf46]

Yes it will. In light of Lyons just coming on board and the fact that this IS a DP case, wouldn't you think the defense needs all the extra time to prepare the OC? I want her to have a good defense, and a fair trial, no glitches that might make an appeal successful. What do you think?

I so agree with you, Snoop. I don't want there to be any doubt in a jury's mind, nor any chance at all for the OC to be able to appeal and win an appeal.

Though a long year it will be, let it roll on to ensure that this murderer will be sunk for every single lousy thing that she did to that little baby!

[sammy62]

Bling-bling (or simply bling) is a slang term in hip hop culture referring to flashy or elaborate jewelry and ornamented accessories that are carried, worn, or installed,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bling-bling

now I learned something else new. Not bad for an old lady. :tonguewag:

[Snoopy50]

Lyons is no fool ... but even as I typed that, I wondered to myself if she will allow him some peripheral witnesses. I wouldn't ... no way, no how. I guess it depends on whether whoever is funding this team has a strong say so on whether he will be actively participating in the trial.

IMO

Excellent point. Do we have any idea where all the money for this defense is coming from?

[gaelicpeas]

(bolding mine)

A nice peeled raw onion inside Baez's briefcase setting on top the defense table, maybe? :laugh:I was thinking of the prosecution, not the defense.. but good thought!

[Unleashed]

i've often wondered exactly what she was thinking while she was leading them down the corridor to her "office"...
* 'gee, wonder how i'll get out of this?'...
or
* 'omg! how far do we have to walk before they'll just say ok we believe you' ..
or
* 'they're following me on a f--in' whim!'
or
* ' what a waste, a huge waste! what's wrong with them?! they should be out looking for zenaida fernandez hyphen gongalez! '
or... ?

or
* 'gee, that one's cute. Wonder if he'd like to...............:drool:

Pant...pant....almost caught up. Everybody take 10.
jmo

[spiritwolf46]

Hi Jammies!:seeya:
I so appreciate Desmom and all her info, she is a peach. So many of these posters go the extra mile to provide links and information, all of which I am grateful for.

You and Jammies are so right!

I think that this is one of the best threads ever! So many good people and great ones that provide the links that are needed with record speed, I might add! LOL

Thanks to you all! Pleasure to be here with you!

[Snoopy50]

I so agree with you, Snoop. I don't want there to be any doubt in a jury's mind, nor any chance at all for the OC to be able to appeal and win an appeal.

Though a long year it will be, let it roll on to ensure that this murderer will be sunk for every single lousy thing that she did to that little baby!
What they ALL did to that baby. she had no playmates that we know about, got dragged all over creation so her "mother" could party hardy, was a pawn between two control freaks and Lord knows what else, but I do not believe Caylee had anything close to a "normal" life. The dysfunction in that house did not start in 2008, it began long ago. Caylee paid the price for those years of no accountability, no rules, and no truth.

[sammy62]

or
* 'gee, that one's cute. Wonder if he'd like to...............:drool:


jmo

You do fill my heart with joy and laughter....thanks :wub:

[impartial]

Excellent point. Do we have any idea where all the money for this defense is coming from?


Not me. Very curious as to who is funding this.


After reading the autopsy report today, I am also curious as to the photographs of the tape. The report is unclear whether the tape was over the bridge of the nose, or under the bridge. There must be something about the placement of the tape that the ME ruled undetermined cause of death. If the tape was found in such a way that all airways would have been blocked, the ME could have stated a cause of death ... or in the very least probable/possible cause of death. I've seen many death certs. that list possible causes. Curious.

IMO

[Snoopy50]

Not me. Very curious as to who is funding this.


After reading the autopsy report today, I am also curious as to the photographs of the tape. The report is unclear whether the tape was over the bridge of the nose, or under the bridge. There must be something about the placement of the tape that the ME ruled undetermined cause of death. If the tape was found in such a way that all airways would have been blocked, the ME could have stated a cause of death ... or in the very least probable/possible cause of death. I've seen many death certs. that list possible causes. Curious.

IMO

Hmmm....didn't the report state that the tape was covering the nose too? Something gave me that impression. I wish Dr. G had listed so much as a possible cause of death so that the defense does not get a small hole that they manage to drive a truck through.:ohmy:

[spiritwolf46]

What they ALL did to that baby. she had no playmates that we know about, got dragged all over creation so her "mother" could party hardy, was a pawn between two control freaks and Lord knows what else, but I do not believe Caylee had anything close to a "normal" life. The dysfunction in that house did not start in 2008, it began long ago. Caylee paid the price for those years of no accountability, no rules, and no truth.

You better believe it! I don't think that I have ever seen a more controlling and dysfunctional family in my whole life!

[gaelicpeas]

Not me. Very curious as to who is funding this.


After reading the autopsy report today, I am also curious as to the photographs of the tape. The report is unclear whether the tape was over the bridge of the nose, or under the bridge. There must be something about the placement of the tape that the ME ruled undetermined cause of death. If the tape was found in such a way that all airways would have been blocked, the ME could have stated a cause of death ... or in the very least probable/possible cause of death. I've seen many death certs. that list possible causes. Curious.

IMOThe other report said the tape covered her mouth and nose aperture. There is no way to determine whether the tape was placed pre or post-mortem, IMO.

However, the obvious conclusion is that it was placed pre-mortem, IMO.

[Snoopy50]

You better believe it! I don't think that I have ever seen a more controlling and dysfunctional family in my whole life!
Let's hope we never have to again either!!!!:chicken:

[jammies]

Cindy didn't have to look after Cayley while she was asleep during the evening, but it would have been a lot more civil if she had told Casey that she was home anyway, and would be willing to watch Cayley one night a week so Casey could go out (without constantly phoning her). Jesse and TonE (and others, I think) reported that every evening Casey was out, Cindy phoned and told her to get home. Maybe Casey concocted evening work so she could just have one night off now and then.

Phone calls from Cindy each time Casey was out would not prevent Casey from getting pregnant again. I think it was controlling behavior. Cindy was afraid of letting Casey grow up, afraid of empty nest syndrome, and afraid of having nothing in her life except George. I don't believe Casey was pregnant a second time, I think that was her attempt to interfere with another relationship.

Casey was out partying all the time. She had NO JOB, NO NANNY, stole from her mother, lied....... what would have been civil is CASEY being a responsible mother to her child instead of a lying, thieving skank that didn't care about anyone other than her own wants and pleasures.

My toddler son and I lived with my mother for 2 years. During that time I dated my husband. We dated from my mothers family room. Once in a while we went out and my mother watched my son.....but I never went out til after I put him to bed. I didn't EXPECT her to nor did I demand. My mother worked all day as did I. It was enough that she let us live in her home while I got my life back together.
I don't get this idea that grandparents should watch their grandchildren. Casey lived at home for FREE. All Caylee's needs were taken care of by Cindy while Casey sat on her *** in the day, partied and laid on her back at night.

Cindy didn't owe her a thing. Casey used Cindy's love for Caylee to her advantage. She's a user just like her dear old dad. As much I Cindy turns my stomach, it was Cindy that worked, paid the bills, babysat etc. Do I think she was stupid? Yes. She allowed GA and Casey's behavior. I can imagine she was a very frustrated woman having all the responsiblilty in that family.

I imagine Cindy figured out long before Caylee went missing that Casey had no job and was lying about her evening "events". Casey even dropped Caylee off at Cindy's office so she could "work".

So no, I don't think Cindy owed her MORE than what she obviously already was doing.

Golly, can't believe I'm sticking up for Cindy! lol :ohmy:

[jammies]

True, indeed Cindy is not a normal mother, and neither is Casey. Maybe it's a chicken and egg thing, but if Cindy and George had treated Casey like an adult, possibly she would have risen to the occasion.


Kind of a viscious circle, isn't it?

[Snoopy50]

I hope you all enjoy your evening, Hubby wants to watch a movie with our college student, who came home today from the stylist with her naturally blonde hair dyed a very dark red. This may take some getting used to........:sad:
See you tomorrow hopefully.
For Caylee:rose:

[sunstar]

I don't think Caylee would ever be put to bed in anything other than pajamas or a nightgown. This kid had a wardrobe that most adult women don't have. She had an outfit for every occasion. Nope, Cindy would never put her to bed in shorts. I believe that after Cindy and Caylee's swim, Cindy put her in the pink "Trouble" top and the shorts found with her remains. After Casey came home and the big fight ensued, Casey grabbed Caylee and stormed out. Caylee didn't live through the night, IMO. I don't think that George ever saw them on the 16th. He says that because Cindy grabbed him where it hurts and told him what to say.

I tend to agree that she never made it through that night. This would also mean that George didn't really see Casey's car there in the driveway when he got home around 11pm either since by that time Casey would already be gone, imo. She still had to be close to home though since the cell phone pings registered in that area. Maybe at Lee's house? Another thing, if she didn't kill Caylee in the house, she would have to take the bags and the duct tape with her? MOO

[desmom]

Not me. Very curious as to who is funding this.


After reading the autopsy report today, I am also curious as to the photographs of the tape. The report is unclear whether the tape was over the bridge of the nose, or under the bridge. There must be something about the placement of the tape that the ME ruled undetermined cause of death. If the tape was found in such a way that all airways would have been blocked, the ME could have stated a cause of death ... or in the very least probable/possible cause of death. I've seen many death certs. that list possible causes. Curious.

IMO

It sounds like her nose was covered.

page 3, 3rd paragraph http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801867/detail.html

...grayish colored tape was noted covering the mouth and nasal aperture areas.....

jmo

[spiritwolf46]

In sessions will crash when C & G testify to the Pros.case against their daughter.. JMO

They have no choice but to testify if the Pros. calls them. They had better tell the truth and not be their normal, vile selves either. I don't think that Strickland or any other Judge will put up with it. And...IF they lie, then the Pros. will kill em with their own lies while on the stand.

[Jester]

Jester. For cripes sake, casey had a night off more than now and then!

She was out a lot.

A whole lot.

With her toddler packed away in the trunk of her car.

GMAB.

Casey didn't deserve time off because she didn't put in any time ON.

:blink:

gee.

I was referring to the time prior to Cayley's murder.

[sunstar]

Lyons would be a fool to let Baez take any witnesses ...

IMO

That's so true! :wink:

[impartial]

The other report said the tape covered her mouth and nose aperture. There is no way to determine whether the tape was placed pre or post-mortem, IMO.

However, the obvious conclusion is that it was placed pre-mortem, IMO.


I read the report only once ... I will have to sit down and really disect it. The placement of the tape ... kept the mandible in place ... my initial reading made me think that the mandible hadn't dropped as it would have without the tape ... was the tape therefore placed under the mandible and wrapped upwards rather than across?

Like I said, I read only once, and when I am more rested, will go through it more thoroughly.

I'm curious why you think the obvious conclusion is that it was placed pre-mortem?

TIA

IMO

[Jester]

I agree with Jester here. If you're going to give something then give it with grace. It's my sense that each and every time Cindy babysat it came with a heavy price. They knew Casey was a wild child and had to be in perpetual motion, get out of the house, run free once in a while.

Who knows what would've happened if she got a couple nights out with no pressure, no emotional blackmail? Maybe Casey would've gotten worse, but maybe better.

I just think those parents sucked the big one and even while doing "favors" were cruel.

They most likely encouraged her to have the baby and most likely told her things would be OK, that they would help. Who the heck knows?

Oh well. Y'all can yell at me now. hee hee.

I can see it from both sides. Casey was dishonest and her parents never knew what was true, so maybe they thought they had to be after her all the time. On the other hand, if they had treated her with a little respect maybe she wouldn't have resorted to lies to get a night off. If they had tried communication, maybe Casey would have learned to face the facts. When Casey was 7 months pregnant, nurse Cindy pretended that she wasn't. This is equivalent to Cindy endorsing the lies. I also believe that every kind gesture from Cindy came with a price.

[jammies]

In sessions will crash when C & G testify to the Pros.case against their daughter.. JMO


Or it will be dead silent in here as everyone is glued to their tv sets.

[anon-o-miss]

Wasn't this also when Casey made the comment, "I'm so frushtrated I can't even swallow, it hurts."

IIRC that came immediately on the heels of Cindy's comments about Lee being sick ... Casey immediately has to get the "sick" focus back on herself. Who was it who recently disclosed the Casey was "sick" a lot?
Yes, she does shortly after she talks about looking up stuff for her case because "....that has to be my focus right now, that has to be my focus, because that's the only thing I can focus on." Ciny interjects that, "the focus has to be on Caylee." (9:55) Casey really throws quite the tantrum on this video.
She also says, "... this is the first time I've truly truly been angry this entire time, but I'm so beyond frustrated with, with all of this that I can't even swallow right now it hurts." (10:50)
http://www.wftv.com/video/18490326/index.html

[Jester]

Well, imo, things were a hot mess in that home long before Casey reached legal age. Heck, neither George nor Cindy behave like grown ups, so it was impossible for them to role model anything beyond their own adolescent, deceitful, self-absorbed behavior. The situation at Casa Anthony was too far gone by the time Caylee arrived, imo. She was the fuse. The fire ignited. It was just a matter of time, imo.

My point is, I think it's off the mark to apply the same concepts that work in normal, functioning families to the Anthonys.

I don't think it was too late to change the patterns after Cayley was born. Instead of Cindy stepping back, being a grandmother, and letting Casey become a mother, Cindy decided she would mother both Casey and Cayley. She suffocated Casey, competed for Cayley's love, and basically set the stage for what eventually happened. Whatever was going on in that house was bad enough that George moved out, so it must have been pretty ugly.

[impartial]

It sounds like her nose was covered.

page 3, 3rd paragraph http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801867/detail.html

...grayish colored tape was noted covering the mouth and nasal aperture areas.....

jmo


I saw that Des ... that's why I was curious as to whether it was on top of the bridge, under the bridge, or completely covering from the bridge down to the jaw area. The report indicates that the mandible was still retained underneath the base of the cranium, due to the duct tape ... no jaw drop as one would expect. So, just how was the tape wrapped ... across, up and down, both? I want pictures.

[Jester]

Add to that the demoralization of her in front of her friends, Cindy telling Caylee to call her Mommy ... Caylee was used by Cindy to control Casey, to demean Casey, to run Casey's self-image into the ground. Anyone who wonders why Casey was a pathological liar can look to Cindy for their answer. It is readily apparent that Casey has low self-esteem issues, and Cindy hit where she knew it would hurt. :sneaky:

IMO

I'd forgotten about Cindy and Lee telling Casey's friends that she was bad, not to have anything to do with her and so on. Why didn't they get counseling for her? It seems clear that the family knew there were some problems, and rather than help they seemed to aggravate.

[Jester]

I wonder why OC decided not to have an abortion. My own thoughts, have nothing in judging her in this case. But why didn't she have 1? What made her decide she could act the part of responsible adult? Ignoring her "immaculate conception" bs. Cindy failed her, Telling her she can't give the baby up. It was Casey's decision, Cindy said NO!!!! and look who lost. Caylee
They should both be in jail.

From all accounts, Casey and Cindy didn't know that Casey was 7 months pregnant. That's far too late to have an abortion. If she was going to have an abortion, Cindy and Casey had to first face the truth that there was a pregnancy.

[desmom]

I read the report only once ... I will have to sit down and really disect it. The placement of the tape ... kept the mandible in place ... my initial reading made me think that the mandible hadn't dropped as it would have without the tape ... was the tape therefore placed under the mandible and wrapped upwards rather than across?

Like I said, I read only once, and when I am more rested, will go through it more thoroughly.

I'm curious why you think the obvious conclusion is that it was placed pre-mortem?

TIA

IMO

IMO, the width of duct tape on a 3 year old child would cover the nose, the mouth and probably extend under the chin.

[sammy62]

I'm off to bed too....hugs to all.

[jammies]

I saw that Des ... that's why I was curious as to whether it was on top of the bridge, under the bridge, or completely covering from the bridge down to the jaw area. The report indicates that the mandible was still retained underneath the base of the cranium, due to the duct tape ... no jaw drop as one would expect. So, just how was the tape wrapped ... across, up and down, both? I want pictures.



Aperture means "an opening" so I'm assuming it was over the nostril area. ???

[Jester]

Was Caylee a sound sleeper or was she a light sleeper? Would a car horn, barking dog or door slamming wake her? Did she get up for drinks of water?

After reading the text messages between Casey and Amy, IMO, Casey went out 3, 4 and sometimes 5 nights a week without Caylee.

IMO, the phone calls from Cindy was because they had learned Casey lied about working at Sports Authority and knew she lied about working the evening of May 25 when Cindy saw Casey in her uniform she posted on myspace....the American Flag at the Anything but Clothes party.

jmo

Either Casey was a good mom, and Cayley had a regular schedule and slept through the night, or Casey was a lousy mom, and Cayley had sleep disturbance. Can't have it both ways. I think Cayley probably didn't sleep well.

I thought that flag outfit was from the July 4 party.

[Dells]

I agree George is a simpleton. I think Baez put this whole thing into motion, but he didn't want to make the motion himself, so he put the A's and Conway up to it, and hoped to 'use' Caylee's dignity as a sympathy ploy.

Bolding mine.....

I so agree w/you! I do think JB put Conway up to this. Funny how JB showed up at the hearing and when Conway was denied his motion, JB asked for an emergency 48 hour stay. I think it was planned that way in Case Conway was denied (which he was) so that they would have further recourse. Too bad the judge didn't go along w/their little plan. I also think it was a ploy on JB's part because Casey did not have to be at the hearing to discuss the release of the autopsy since her defense team was not the one that filed the initial motion. I guess The Dream Team couldn't trust Casey and what her reaction would be to discussing Caylee's remains. I guess it wouldn't look too good on her part to smirk, flirt, and chit chat w/her attorney's while the potential release of Caylee's autopsy was being discussed.:sneaky:

[anon-o-miss]

Bolding mine.....

I so agree w/you! I do think JB put Conway up to this. Funny how JB showed up at the hearing and when Conway was denied his motion, JB asked for an emergency 48 hour stay. I think it was planned that way in Case Conway was denied (which he was) so that they would have further recourse. Too bad the judge didn't go along w/their little plan. I also think it was a ploy on JB's part because Casey did not have to be at the hearing to discuss the release of the autopsy since her defense team was not the one that filed the initial motion. I guess The Dream Team couldn't trust Casey and what her reaction would be to discussing Caylee's remains. I guess it wouldn't look too good on her part to smirk, flirt, and chit chat w/her attorney's while the potential release of Caylee's autopsy was being discussed.:sneaky:

(bolding is mine)
ITA!!! :thumbsup:

[Dells]

I find it highly INAPPROPRIATE that attorneys (or ANYONE involved ) go on talk shows and discuss the case.
Just makes me so mad there isn't some sort of law preventing that.
(and I'm not one for MORE laws but this seems so WRONG!)

Bolding mine....

I think so too. And then the defense team has the nerve to accuse the prosecution of tainting the potential jury pool by their "leaks" which are actually the legal release of the documents related to this case that the law requires them to release to the public. It's deplorable.:thumbdown:

[Unleashed]

I'm off to bed too....hugs to all.

Night, sammy. Sleep with angels.:wub:

[impartial]

Aperture means "an opening" so I'm assuming it was over the nostril area. ???


One would think ... however, in medical terms it has been used for the following:

The anterior end of the bony nasal opening, connecting the external nose with the skull.

:shrug:

[gaelicpeas]

I read the report only once ... I will have to sit down and really disect it. The placement of the tape ... kept the mandible in place ... my initial reading made me think that the mandible hadn't dropped as it would have without the tape ... was the tape therefore placed under the mandible and wrapped upwards rather than across?

Like I said, I read only once, and when I am more rested, will go through it more thoroughly.

I'm curious why you think the obvious conclusion is that it was placed pre-mortem?

TIA

IMOWhy would you place it post-mortem?

[desmom]

Either Casey was a good mom, and Cayley had a regular schedule and slept through the night, or Casey was a lousy mom, and Cayley had sleep disturbance. Can't have it both ways. I think Cayley probably didn't sleep well.

I thought that flag outfit was from the July 4 party.

Memorial Day.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17564904/detail.html
Photos of Casey Anthony at a May 25 “Anything But Clothes Party,” where she is shown drinking and wearing an American flag.

[desmom]

I saw that Des ... that's why I was curious as to whether it was on top of the bridge, under the bridge, or completely covering from the bridge down to the jaw area. The report indicates that the mandible was still retained underneath the base of the cranium, due to the duct tape ... no jaw drop as one would expect. So, just how was the tape wrapped ... across, up and down, both? I want pictures.

Side to side?

OCSO Supplemental Report page 5 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/3374B%20TO%203463B%20REDO.pdf

The skull appeared to be that of a small child. The duct tape over the mouth area of the skull appears to have caught up the hair along the side of the skull. This is what appears to have kept the tape in place. The hair had to be cut in order for the tape to be properly removed in the way it was found. On the tape within a black oval was written the word "Henkel". Also written on the tape was "Consumer Adhesives Inc. max temp 200 f Avon Ohio 44011." The tape was affixed to the skull in such a manner that the mandible was still adjacent to the skull.

[Dick Tracy]

Why would you place it post-mortem?


HI Gaelic....

I'm still on the fence about pre-mortem, post-mortem with the tape. If the PRP was trying to make it look as though SOMEONE else did the crime, then possibly it was done post-mortem.

It would have been nice to know if the child was sedated, however I don't think she was sedated at all. Maybe it was chloroform overdose that did her in. I just cannot see the PRP struggling with Caylee trying to duct tape her mouth shut. Maybe she put the duct tape on while the child was asleep, and alive. Lots of different angles to look at...

She could have possibly put the tape on post-mortem, to make sure that there would be no fluids escaping from the mouth??? I don't know.

[impartial]

Why would you place it post-mortem?


I'm remembering the SP case ... where twine was wrapped around Conner's neck, and tied in a double tie ... the testimony in that case was that the twine somehow got over the circumferance of Conner's head, and then somehow shrank and tied ... they had to cut the twine off as it would not go over his head.

Say the duck tape was wrapped on the bag, and during the several months with the movement, the animals, water, etc., transferred to the skull? Obviously if it was placed pre-mortem, it was placed on skin, and as the skin eroded away, there would not be sticky attachment to the skull ... the only thing holding the duct tape in place was the attachment to the hair as a result of matting in the hair ... the report did not indicate there was "sticky" attachment to the hair ... but that it was attached due to the matted condition of the hair.

IMO

[impartial]

HI Gaelic....

I'm still on the fence about pre-mortem, post-mortem with the tape. If the PRP was trying to make it look as though SOMEONE else did the crime, then possibly it was done post-mortem.

It would have been nice to know if the child was sedated, however I don't think she was sedated at all. Maybe it was chloroform overdose that did her in. I just cannot see the PRP struggling with Caylee trying to duct tape her mouth shut. Maybe she put the duct tape on while the child was asleep, and alive. Lots of different angles to look at...

She could have possibly put the tape on post-mortem, to make sure that there would be no fluids escaping from the mouth??? I don't know.


The toxicology report specifically ruled out chloroform.

IMO

[desmom]

Night All! :seeya:

:rose: http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=cayle :rose:

[kanzz]

The toxicology report specifically ruled out chloroform.

IMO


It was ruled out? Or is it just that none was found?

Don't I remember hearing something back in Dec about chloroform dissipating readily?

[anon-o-miss]

From all accounts, Casey and Cindy didn't know that Casey was 7 months pregnant. That's far too late to have an abortion. If she was going to have an abortion, Cindy and Casey had to first face the truth that there was a pregnancy.

I doubt Cindy didn't know, she was probably in her denial mode. Rick (Cindy's brother) said when he brought it up to Cindy at his wedding she said something along the lines of, Casey says she would have to have sex to get pregnant so she can't be. Which tells me that Cindy must have suspected something, at the very least, and questioned Casey about it.

[Dick Tracy]

The toxicology report specifically ruled out chloroform.

IMO

Well.... there was evidence of Chloroform in the trunk, right? I was watching an ME discuss this, and he said it would be impossible to know if chloroform was there or NOT because of the skeletal condition of the remains.... Also chlorofom is a volatile liquid, it will evaporate VERY VERY QUICKLY.

[Dick Tracy]

Good evening all.
I don't believe Casey is smart enough to think things out as to make sure there was no fluid escaping from Caylee's mouth.
I will say what I think happened and that would be Casey was very angry with her mother and she took it out on Caylee. Caylee was upset and wouldn't stop crying and Casey reached for the duct tape and violently kept wrapping it around Caylee's mouth, nose and head. She was outraged when she did this and the reports indicates this. It had to be done by someone who was violently out of control.
Casey appears to be the sociopath and narcissistic we have been talking about. :sneaky:
JMO

So, hypothetically, you are saying on the way out of the house, she grabbed some duct tape, with the intent on killing the child? Or do you think she had the roll of DT in the car already?

[impartial]

It was ruled out? Or is it just that none was found?

Don't I remember hearing something back in Dec about chloroform dissipating readily?


No chloroform found ... in the bones, bone marrow or hair. Although chloroform dissipates readily outside of the body, the hair would show if drugs were utilized ... depending on the length of the hair ... short hair, up to 3 months, long hair can be up to one year IIRC.

IMO

[Sandy001]

Good morning everyone. Thank you so much Des, for all of your hard work in arranging these links for us everyday. They are so helpful in our discussions the entire day.

Okay, I am confused by Bill Scheaffer's statement that the shirt found at the crimescene is the exact same shirt george claimed to have seen Caylee leaving the house with. Is it really?

I still believe some of the best evidence against anthony, is the results of the chloroform found soaked into the trunk carpet.

BTW, we still do not know what the "mystery" stain was on the carpet, that george put his nose "down on" from which the death odor came. I believe it will turn out to be additional adipocere (death wax.)

My favorite part of last night's show:


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(Brad Conway on LKL with cindy and george) - We know that there was no flesh and no hair attached to the duct tape, yet that`s what goes out to the media and that`s what people assume to be true. And that`s the unfair part, is that this young lady has not had her opportunity in court yet, yet people have drawn conclusions from discovery that`s out there. Discovery is documents that are put forth by the state, testing, statements, written statements, oral statements, taped statements. But evidence is what happens in court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And we can confirm to you with this autopsy report released today there, in fact, was duct tape, and it in fact, was attached to the hair that was left on that skull.

Conway was shown as the liar he is, imo. Any credibility he had went bye-bye with that statement. Maybe now, he won't believe the lies out of his clients' mouths. We can only hope he will grow a spine and quit like Nejame did. His clients have played him like a fool. jmo

[seeing_eye]

Actually, I think their plan would have worked... EXCEPT for the fact that Cindy is just so... um.. I dunno.. SPOCK looking. I think she screwed up the plan, IMO.

Is that Dr. Spock or Mr. Spock?

[Sandy001]

No chloroform found ... in the bones, bone marrow or hair. Although chloroform dissipates readily outside of the body, the hair would show if drugs were utilized ... depending on the length of the hair ... short hair, up to 3 months, long hair can be up to one year IIRC.

IMO IO believe it would only show up in the hair if it had been used multiple times. It may have only been used just once. I don't think a single use would show up in the hair.

[Sandy001]

I tend to agree that she never made it through that night. This would also mean that George didn't really see Casey's car there in the driveway when he got home around 11pm either since by that time Casey would already be gone, imo. She still had to be close to home though since the cell phone pings registered in that area. Maybe at Lee's house? Another thing, if she didn't kill Caylee in the house, she would have to take the bags and the duct tape with her? MOO I think she slept in the car and snuck back in the house when no one was home. I rememeber someone saying that the car looked like someone had been living in it. moo

[impartial]

Well.... there was evidence of Chloroform in the trunk, right? I was watching an ME discuss this, and he said it would be impossible to know if chloroform was there or NOT because of the skeletal condition of the remains.... Also chlorofom is a volatile liquid, it will evaporate VERY VERY QUICKLY.



No volatiles were found in the bone marrow, bones or hair. The evaporation rate would not affect the toxicology of the tissues/hair if inhaled.

And since it does evaporate very, very quickly, why was it still present in the car one month later? Cleaning by detailer George.

IMO

[Dick Tracy]

No chloroform found ... in the bones, bone marrow or hair. Although chloroform dissipates readily outside of the body, the hair would show if drugs were utilized ... depending on the length of the hair ... short hair, up to 3 months, long hair can be up to one year IIRC.

IMO

The HAIR MIGHT SHOW if drugs were used. It takes blood flow to get traces of any kind of a drug up to the hair. No blood flow equals no transfer of drug use to the hair. That make sense?

[kanzz]

No chloroform found ... in the bones, bone marrow or hair. Although chloroform dissipates readily outside of the body, the hair would show if drugs were utilized ... depending on the length of the hair ... short hair, up to 3 months, long hair can be up to one year IIRC.

IMO

If chloroform was administered shortly before death, there wouldn't have probably been ample time for it to be transferred to the hair. Chemicals that do transfer will remain in the hair indefinitely - no time limit.

[impartial]

IO believe it would only show up in the hair if it had been used multiple times. It may have only been used just once. I don't think a single use would show up in the hair.


Single use of marijuana can show up in the blood for 28 days, and much longer in hair. That's why I tell clients don't agree to blood for a DUI, just in case more than alcohol will be found. :wink:


IMO

[kanzz]

No volatiles were found in the bone marrow, bones or hair. The evaporation rate would not affect the toxicology of the tissues/hair if inhaled.

And since it does evaporate very, very quickly, why was it still present in the car one month later? Cleaning by detailer George.

IMO

So Geo conducted the computer searches for chloroform, etc.?

[kanzz]

The HAIR MIGHT SHOW if drugs were used. It takes blood flow to get traces of any kind of a drug up to the hair. No blood flow equals no transfer of drug use to the hair. That make sense?

Yes. Perfect sense.

[Dick Tracy]

No volatiles were found in the bone marrow, bones or hair. The evaporation rate would not affect the toxicology of the tissues/hair if inhaled.

And since it does evaporate very, very quickly, why was it still present in the car one month later? Cleaning by detailer George.

IMO

I'm going to have to reread the evidence gathered from the trunk.

[scarlet30]

If chloroform was administered shortly before death, there wouldn't have probably been ample time for it to be transferred to the hair. Chemicals that do transfer will remain in the hair indefinitely - no time limit.

I thought Caylee's body was under water for several months due to the heavy rains in that specific area.

[impartial]

So Geo conducted the computer searches for chloroform, etc.?


Naw, I think the chloroform probably cached on her computer as a result of her friend's chloroform Ad. Or, she may have researched chloroform as a result of that Ad. I think the Chloroform is a red herring ... nothing much will come of it.

The prosecution will most likely not bring it up ... they don't have a cause of death, and if they try to supply one with weak evidence, it could backfire. Better to leave the cause of death alone, since anything they bring forward will be speculation. Stick with the strong parts of the case ... no reporting, partying, not worried, not looking, etc., and leave the weaker parts of the case alone. At least that's what I would do.

But that could be a problem for proving premeditation. I still have yet to see any evidence that proves premeditation. I have seen plenty of evidence that proves she didn't want anyone looking for Caylee, but not premed ... yet. It may still be coming though.

IMO

[kanzz]

I thought Caylee's body was under water for several months due to the heavy rains in that specific area.

Yes... but it's late and I'm confused about why this is stated as a response to what I said.

[anon-o-miss]

No volatiles were found in the bone marrow, bones or hair. The evaporation rate would not affect the toxicology of the tissues/hair if inhaled.

And since it does evaporate very, very quickly, why was it still present in the car one month later? Cleaning by detailer George.

IMO
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0619/19802034.pdf
page 36

"In summary, volatiles and drugs were not detected in the specimens obtained from the remains of Skeletal Remains Unidentified; ME 2008-001567. These results do not rule-out the decedent's prior use and/or exposure to volatiles and/or drugs. "
(Bolding mine)

[TaraCrazyHair]

Naw, I think the chloroform probably cached on her computer as a result of her friend's chloroform Ad. Or, she may have researched chloroform as a result of that Ad. I think the Chloroform is a red herring ... nothing much will come of it.

The prosecution will most likely not bring it up ... they don't have a cause of death, and if they try to supply one with weak evidence, it could backfire. Better to leave the cause of death alone, since anything they bring forward will be speculation. Stick with the strong parts of the case ... no reporting, partying, not worried, not looking, etc., and leave the weaker parts of the case alone. At least that's what I would do.

IMO

Well ...hello there stranger (:

I think the most speculative cause of death will be suffocation

I also think the DA will have a difficult time with the technicalities

Something the defense is counting on

[impartial]

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0619/19802034.pdf
page 36

"In summary, volatiles and drugs were not detected in the specimens obtained from the remains of Skeletal Remains Unidentified; ME 2008-001567. These results do not rule-out the decedent's prior use and/or exposure to volatiles and/or drugs.
(Bolding mine)


I read that to mean just that ... prior use .... not use at or near the time of death.

IMO

[kanzz]

Naw, I think the chloroform probably cached on her computer as a result of her friend's chloroform Ad. Or, she may have researched chloroform as a result of that Ad. I think the Chloroform is a red herring ... nothing much will come of it.

The prosecution will most likely not bring it up ... they don't have a cause of death, and if they try to supply one with weak evidence, it could backfire. Better to leave the cause of death alone, since anything they bring forward will be speculation. Stick with the strong parts of the case ... no reporting, partying, not worried, not looking, etc., and leave the weaker parts of the case alone. At least that's what I would do.

IMO

You're probably right about the prosecution's approach. Focus on the hallmarks. I'm curious - you don't believe what was reported about the word chloroform being entered into a search engine?

[anon-o-miss]

Naw, I think the chloroform probably cached on her computer as a result of her friend's chloroform Ad. Or, she may have researched chloroform as a result of that Ad. I think the Chloroform is a red herring ... nothing much will come of it.

The prosecution will most likely not bring it up ... they don't have a cause of death, and if they try to supply one with weak evidence, it could backfire. Better to leave the cause of death alone, since anything they bring forward will be speculation. Stick with the strong parts of the case ... no reporting, partying, not worried, not looking, etc., and leave the weaker parts of the case alone. At least that's what I would do.

But that could be a problem for proving premeditation. I still have yet to see any evidence that proves premeditation. I have seen plenty of evidence that proves she didn't want anyone looking for Caylee, but not premed ... yet. It may still be coming though.

IMO
That might be more believable had she not also looked up neck-breaking, household weapons, how to make chloroform, missing childrens web sites... etc.

[impartial]

Well ...hello there stranger (:

I think the most speculative cause of death will be suffocation

I also think the DA will have a difficult time with the technicalities

Something the defense is counting on


Hey there !!!!!


Have you analyzed the autopsy report yet? I haven't, just read it once. I want to analyze it to see if they were looking for evidence of suffocation in the tissues (ie bone marrow). Not sure if it would show up there, but they did note there was no evidence of subperiosteal hemorrage ... not sure what this would go to.

Nice to see you.

[TaraCrazyHair]

I have to agree on the suffocation as the cause of her death but they can not prove this with Caylee being found 6 months later in skeletal remains.
If she was poked or stabbed or shot or beaten they could have an easy time finding it. Suffocation would be difficult, I'm thinking.
JMO


It will be a CE case

(or should be)

With Casey's lifestyle ... drugging and taping as a "babysitter" will be the most reasonable conclusion

That could be why she is appears to be so unconcerned?

Child endangerment/manslaughter

My guess that is the route the trial will take by the defense and the DA will have to one up it

Moo

[TaraCrazyHair]

Hey there !!!!!


Have you analyzed the autopsy report yet? I haven't, just read it once. I want to analyze it to see if they were looking for evidence of suffocation in the tissues (ie bone marrow). Not sure if it would show up there, but they did note there was no evidence of subperiosteal hemorrage ... not sure what this would go to.

Nice to see you.


The most pertinent thing I took from it was the placement of the duct tape

Shows signs of trying to silence

[seeing_eye]

I can see it from both sides. Casey was dishonest and her parents never knew what was true, so maybe they thought they had to be after her all the time. On the other hand, if they had treated her with a little respect maybe she wouldn't have resorted to lies to get a night off. If they had tried communication, maybe Casey would have learned to face the facts. When Casey was 7 months pregnant, nurse Cindy pretended that she wasn't. This is equivalent to Cindy endorsing the lies. I also believe that every kind gesture from Cindy came with a price.

Cindy didn't just endorse Casey's lies. It's my opinion that Cindy as well as George actually taught Casey to lie. They taught lying to her not only by their own examples, but also by their attitude that they believed nothing is wrong with lying.

[gaelicpeas]

Is that Dr. Spock or Mr. Spock?
Not sure if Spock was a Dr. or a Mr. - but I meant the Star Trek Spock.

[kanzz]

Hey there !!!!!


Have you analyzed the autopsy report yet? I haven't, just read it once. I want to analyze it to see if they were looking for evidence of suffocation in the tissues (ie bone marrow). Not sure if it would show up there, but they did note there was no evidence of subperiosteal hemorrage ... not sure what this would go to.

Nice to see you.

subperiosteal hemorrage might be found in the case of shaken baby syndrome.

[impartial]

The most pertinent thing I took from it was the placement of the duct tape

Shows signs of trying to silence


That was my initial reaction to the report as well ... then as I continued to read it, it seems as though the duct tape was adhered to the hair as a result of the matted condition of the hair.

So, I thought of Conner Peterson and the twine ... the testimony about the watery conditions, the twine going over his head, and becoming tied around his neck due to the water. If the duct tape were on the bags, and as a result of the conditions of the water, animals, etc., the tape transfering to the skull and getting matted in the hair.

So, not sure yet about the duct tape. I want to see the pictures. The tape was described to have been there prior to decomp., inasmuch as the mandible still being retained under the crania. The mandible would normally drop with decomp., but didn't due to the duct tape. Was it under the mandible rather than across it?

IMO

[Dick Tracy]

I myself do not have DT in my vehicle. However more than one poster has indicated they have it in there's. With that and the car being an older model it would be possible that there was duct tape in the car already. Casey mind was racing and she grabbed for the duct tape. Might have been on the floor board or she may have reached for it in the glove box. Dunno. I do NOT believe she "grabbed" for the duct tape on the way out of the house. I do not believe when she grabbed Caylee and left the house her intentions were to do what was done to little Caylee. Thought i would throw some thoughts out there.
JMO
How are you DT, tonight. Hope you're doing well.

I don't carry duct tape in my car either. I think she put the duct tape on when she moved the body from the backyard to the trunk of the car, on or around 18 June. I've heard people contend that duct tape will not stick to decomposing skin. Maybe that's true, but wrapped tight enough, it will certainly stick to itself still, and if wrapped tight enough at that point it wouldn't have to stick to the skin.

I'm okay, thank you for asking. I'm learning a new song on the guitar, so I'm balancing my six string here and reading posts. I like healthy discussion, when some idgit comes in here and gets in someones face, I don't care for that too much..... and I don't participate!!!

But, all is well in Seattle.

[gaelicpeas]

That was my initial reaction to the report as well ... then as I continued to read it, it seems as though the duct tape was adhered to the hair as a result of the matted condition of the hair.

So, I thought of Conner Peterson and the twine ... the testimony about the watery conditions, the twine going over his head, and becoming tied around his neck due to the water. If the duct tape were on the bags, and as a result of the conditions of the water, animals, etc., the tape transfering to the skull and getting matted in the hair.

So, not sure yet about the duct tape. I want to see the pictures. The tape was described to have been there prior to decomp., inasmuch as the mandible still being retained under the crania. The mandible would normally drop with decomp., but didn't due to the duct tape. Was it under the mandible rather than across it?

IMOThe other report.. not the autopsy... said the tape covered the mouth and nose aperture.

[seeing_eye]

I find it highly INAPPROPRIATE that attorneys (or ANYONE involved ) go on talk shows and discuss the case.
Just makes me so mad there isn't some sort of law preventing that.
(and I'm not one for MORE laws but this seems so WRONG!)

There is a law (or at least a judicial order). It's called a "gag" order. Baez fought against it at the very beginning of this case and won.

[Imperfect4]

Cindy didn't just endorse Casey's lies. It's my opinion that Cindy as well as George actually taught Casey to lie. They taught lying to her not only by their own examples, but also by their attitude that they believed nothing is wrong with lying.

Yep, I agree.

[scarlet30]

Yes... but it's late and I'm confused about why this is stated as a response to what I said.

Sorry Kanzz, I am a newbie and wanted to join in on the Caylee Anthony case. I have been following this tragic story since last year...my thoughts were if the body was under water for months, would that not play a role in the lack of Chloroform?

[Lavinia]

Hey there !!!!!


Have you analyzed the autopsy report yet? I haven't, just read it once. I want to analyze it to see if they were looking for evidence of suffocation in the tissues (ie bone marrow). Not sure if it would show up there, but they did note there was no evidence of subperiosteal hemorrage ... not sure what this would go to.

Nice to see you.

IIRC, that would go to previous bone fracture, impartial.

[AlohaRainbow]

Hey there !!!!!


Have you analyzed the autopsy report yet? I haven't, just read it once. I want to analyze it to see if they were looking for evidence of suffocation in the tissues (ie bone marrow). Not sure if it would show up there, but they did note there was no evidence of subperiosteal hemorrage ... not sure what this would go to.

Nice to see you.
trauma could be one cause of subperiostal hemorrhage
also, prolonged pressure (such as a headlock and/or pressures related to scuba diving) can cause ortibal (bone at the edge of the eye socket) subperiosteal hemorrhage

some diseases also, iirc, scurvy and neurofibromatosis...
(the periosteum is a membrane covering the outer surface of bones)

[Jester]

Casey was out partying all the time. She had NO JOB, NO NANNY, stole from her mother, lied....... what would have been civil is CASEY being a responsible mother to her child instead of a lying, thieving skank that didn't care about anyone other than her own wants and pleasures.

My toddler son and I lived with my mother for 2 years. During that time I dated my husband. We dated from my mothers family room. Once in a while we went out and my mother watched my son.....but I never went out til after I put him to bed. I didn't EXPECT her to nor did I demand. My mother worked all day as did I. It was enough that she let us live in her home while I got my life back together.
I don't get this idea that grandparents should watch their grandchildren. Casey lived at home for FREE. All Caylee's needs were taken care of by Cindy while Casey sat on her *** in the day, partied and laid on her back at night.

Cindy didn't owe her a thing. Casey used Cindy's love for Caylee to her advantage. She's a user just like her dear old dad. As much I Cindy turns my stomach, it was Cindy that worked, paid the bills, babysat etc. Do I think she was stupid? Yes. She allowed GA and Casey's behavior. I can imagine she was a very frustrated woman having all the responsiblilty in that family.

I imagine Cindy figured out long before Caylee went missing that Casey had no job and was lying about her evening "events". Casey even dropped Caylee off at Cindy's office so she could "work".

So no, I don't think Cindy owed her MORE than what she obviously already was doing.

Golly, can't believe I'm sticking up for Cindy! lol :ohmy:

I don't think Cindy owed Casey anything more than respect, and regardless of what Cindy did for Casey and Cayley financially, she did not respect Casey. I have no idea what Cindy was trying to do when she denied that Casey was 7 months pregnant, but a decent mother and nurse does not pretend her own daughter is not pregnant. That is the ultimate in disrespect.

[Jester]

Kind of a viscious circle, isn't it?

It is. Cindy treats Casey like dirt, Casey fights for her rights, Cindy tries to get Casey under control, Casey resorts to deception, Cindy plays along with the deception, Casey thinks her mother doesn't care ... it seems to me that the parents set the stage for what happened to Cayley. With that said, Casey was an adult when she murdered her daughter and, as an adult, is entirely responsible for the decisions she made. She could have left home with Cayley and set up an independent life. She chose not to.

[AlohaRainbow]

The other report.. not the autopsy... said the tape covered the mouth and nose aperture.

although this diagram is not of a child, so the proportions would be slightly different, by looking at this skull http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.upstate.edu/cdb/grossanat/imgs/skullantmax5.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.upstate.edu/cdb/grossanat/hnskullantmax5.shtml&h=400&w=319&sz=128&tbnid=dTggBKGStSVAiM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=99&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmaxilla&hl=en&usg=__8ejmmeP06NNWd8mEvOA9DjbAWAc=&ei=Nb49SrCyE5HatgOasoy7Dw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=7&ct=image , a piece of tape across the nostrils (which would be the lower portion of the nasal aperture) would also cover the maxilla and mandible... if long enough, it would cover the temporomandibular joint (tmj) and could catch on any hair that was loose along the side of her face. if the tape was longer and wrapped around more toward the back of her head, it could have caught more of her hair, including a ponytail

after reading the autopsy report with the description of the knot of matted hair at the back of her head, i wondered if her hair was in a ponytail (she is wearing it in a ponytail in the 'you are my sunshine' video)

very sad to try and picture all this :sad:

[Jester]

Memorial Day.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17564904/detail.html
Photos of Casey Anthony at a May 25 “Anything But Clothes Party,” where she is shown drinking and wearing an American flag.

Thanks for the clarification of the date. For the last year I assumed those pictures were taken after Cayley was murdered.

[Jester]

I doubt Cindy didn't know, she was probably in her denial mode. Rick (Cindy's brother) said when he brought it up to Cindy at his wedding she said something along the lines of, Casey says she would have to have sex to get pregnant so she can't be. Which tells me that Cindy must have suspected something, at the very least, and questioned Casey about it.

Nurse Cindy had to have known that Casey was pregnant, yet she stated as fact when Casey was 7 months pregnant that she was not. What does that say about Cindy? It's ludicrous that she denied the pregnancy. It's also incredibly disrespectful for a nurse, or a woman's mother, to tell a 7 month pregnant woman that she is not pregnant.

[Jester]

Since Casey was hardly ever home it may be true that Cindy was not aware that Casey was with child but I find it hard to believe that Casey was totally unaware she was pregnant. That baby is moving freely and it can be felt somewhere between 5-6 months. If she was 7 months pregnant before they confronted the issue Casey waited too long and perhaps Casey was in denial since it was way too late to do anything about it.
What I do think is, Cindy was surprised and disappointed as she has always been with Casey but after awhile she began to accept it and told Casey they would work things out and she had to keep the baby, Giving the baby up after birth was no option, I'm thinking.
Then after a few months of Caylee in their lives Cindy began to realize what the responsibility was and started giving Casey a really hard time about her responsibility as a mother. Casey did not like that at all because in the first 6-8 months of Caylee's life Casey has it really easy.
JMO

I hadn't thought of that. So you're suggesting that possibly Casey was pampered and looked after by Cindy until Cayley was about 6 months, and then it was time for Casey to take responsibility again, go back to work, and carry on ... and that's when the trouble started. I like that idea.

[seeing_eye]

Not sure if Spock was a Dr. or a Mr. - but I meant the Star Trek Spock.

Then it's Mr. Spock. Dr. Spock is the one who ruined all our kids in recent generations. IMO

[AlohaRainbow]

Nurse Cindy had to have known that Casey was pregnant, yet she stated as fact when Casey was 7 months pregnant that she was not. What does that say about Cindy? It's ludicrous that she denied the pregnancy. It's also incredibly disrespectful for a nurse, or a woman's mother, to tell a 7 month pregnant woman that she is not pregnant.

i don't think i'm the only nurse who has her own stethoscope at home... by 7 months gestation, even listening with a regular stethoscope should pick up some fetal heart sounds. if casey had been my daughter (shudder!) and was telling me that she just had some sort of female problem with her abdomen as big as it was at rick's wedding, i would have whipped out my stethoscope... because with her size, i would suspect either she was pregnant or she had a tumor

http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,9851,00.html
Listening for the heartbeat without amplification
Starting at about 20 weeks, the heartbeat can be heard without Doppler amplification. A special stethoscope called a fetoscope can be used, or the bell (concave) side of a regular stethoscope can be pressed firmly onto your abdomen. The heartbeat is best heard over the baby's back, which often seems firm when you feel around on the uterus.

[gaelicpeas]

although this diagram is not of a child, so the proportions would be slightly different, by looking at this skull http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.upstate.edu/cdb/grossanat/imgs/skullantmax5.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.upstate.edu/cdb/grossanat/hnskullantmax5.shtml&h=400&w=319&sz=128&tbnid=dTggBKGStSVAiM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=99&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmaxilla&hl=en&usg=__8ejmmeP06NNWd8mEvOA9DjbAWAc=&ei=Nb49SrCyE5HatgOasoy7Dw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=7&ct=image , a piece of tape across the nostrils (which would be the lower portion of the nasal aperture) would also cover the maxilla and mandible... if long enough, it would cover the temporomandibular joint (tmj) and could catch on any hair that was loose along the side of her face. if the tape was longer and wrapped around more toward the back of her head, it could have caught more of her hair, including a ponytail

after reading the autopsy report with the description of the knot of matted hair at the back of her head, i wondered if her hair was in a ponytail (she is wearing it in a ponytail in the 'you are my sunshine' video)

very sad to try and picture all this :sad:I thought there was a ponytail... they mentioned 6" hair tied.

[gaelicpeas]

Thanks for the clarification of the date. For the last year I assumed those pictures were taken after Cayley was murdered.You are correct... but there are lots of other pics after June 16.

[AlohaRainbow]

I thought there was a ponytail... they mentioned 6" hair tied.

thanks. i just skimmed the report once.
i need to go back and read for detail.

so, my thought is if her hair was in a ponytail, and she apparently seemed to be wearing the same shorts as in the video... likely she died that same evening?

it would seem unlikely that she would have been put to bed with her hair still in a ponytail... and somehwat unlikely that she would have worn the same shorts two days in a row... :shrug:

[gaelicpeas]

thanks. i just skimmed the report once.
i need to go back and read for detail.

so, my thought is if her hair was in a ponytail, and she apparently seemed to be wearing the same shorts as in the video... likely she died that same evening?

it would seem unlikely that she would have been put to bed with her hair still in a ponytail... and somehwat unlikely that she would have worn the same shorts two days in a row... :shrug:Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever know, as we can't really depend on anything that any of the Anthonys say, IMO.

[AlohaRainbow]

Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever know, as we can't really depend on anything that any of the Anthonys say, IMO.

i think you hit it square on the head, and it bears repeating :-)
we can't really depend on anything that any of the Anthonys say

[happygert]

i think you hit it square on the head, and it bears repeating :-)
we can't really depend on anything that any of the Anthonys say


I wouldnt believe them if they told what time of day it was. I'd have to loof for myself..

[rbrnmw]

I am 42 and my daughter (21) made me up a myspace...it was fun, I met other Wiccans through it...of course I have not even looked at it for about 18 months.

I know some people my age have them, pass word protected so they can exchange photos with other family members, or create albums to be viewed for friends and family that live far away.

Cindy's Myspace, IIRC seemed to be more or less like her other activities, ways to gain sympathy--like that blog when Caylee and Casey were 'missing'.

What has always bothered me since the beginning is the 911 call when you hear Cindy tells casey I have already given you 30 days I am not giving you another day. I revisit that every time the Anthony's come out with a new spin lie to protect Casey, I ask myself has it been smoke and mirrors from the beginning did Casey tell them in June the "nanny" took Caylee and they gave her 30 days to find her herself? It sounds outlandish and probaly isn't the case, but just something about this statement bugs me. Does it bug anyone else?

[rbrnmw]

i don't think i'm the only nurse who has her own stethoscope at home... by 7 months gestation, even listening with a regular stethoscope should pick up some fetal heart sounds. if casey had been my daughter (shudder!) and was telling me that she just had some sort of female problem with her abdomen as big as it was at rick's wedding, i would have whipped out my stethoscope... because with her size, i would suspect either she was pregnant or she had a tumor

http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,9851,00.html
Listening for the heartbeat without amplification
Starting at about 20 weeks, the heartbeat can be heard without Doppler amplification. A special stethoscope called a fetoscope can be used, or the bell (concave) side of a regular stethoscope can be pressed firmly onto your abdomen. The heartbeat is best heard over the baby's back, which often seems firm when you feel around on the uterus.
My mother is a nurse she would have forced the issue too if not outright called me a liar There is no way a medical professional could miss a pregnancy in someone as small as Casey

[zinnia]

What has always bothered me since the beginning is the 911 call when you hear Cindy tells casey I have already given you 30 days I am not giving you another day. I revisit that every time the Anthony's come out with a new spin lie to protect Casey, I ask myself has it been smoke and mirrors from the beginning did Casey tell them in June the "nanny" took Caylee and they gave her 30 days to find her herself? It sounds outlandish and probaly isn't the case, but just something about this statement bugs me. Does it bug anyone else?

Yup, bugged me also. My guess is that Casey told Cindy what she wanted to hear; that she was getting her life together, working and had the Nanny to watch Caylee and didn't need her mother involved. Cindy perferred to believe that was true and like the pregnacy went into denial mode. Finally after 30 days she wanted to see Caylee was OK and probably all of the fears she had about Casey being ABLE to care for a 2 year old surfaced and she HAD to see for herself.

No, don't have a lot of sympathy for Cindy but I think she is one of those people who keep talking to convince themselves they are right. She knows somewhere in all this that she created the situation by trying to make an immature, selfish very young woman be accountable for a human life that SHE demanded Casey keep.

Caylee could have had a wonderful life if she had been given up for adoption. Instead Cindy insisted Casey keep her and then got tired of reminding/demanding that Casey be responsible. It all blew up in her face and she lost. She was not honest with herself about what was really happening in her home; my guess is she just went along with it because confronting KC was too much screaming.

There is a poster with the nic "they drew straws and Caylee lost". That about sums it up.

[rbrnmw]

Yup, bugged me also. My guess is that Casey told Cindy what she wanted to hear; that she was getting her life together, working and had the Nanny to watch Caylee and didn't need her mother involved. Cindy perferred to believe that was true and like the pregnacy went into denial mode. Finally after 30 days she wanted to see Caylee was OK and probably all of the fears she had about Casey being ABLE to care for a 2 year old surfaced and she HAD to see for herself.

No, don't have a lot of sympathy for Cindy but I think she is one of those people who keep talking to convince themselves they are right. She knows somewhere in all this that she created the situation by trying to make an immature, selfish very young woman be accountable for a human life that SHE demanded Casey keep.

Caylee could have had a wonderful life if she had been given up for adoption. Instead Cindy insisted Casey keep her and then got tired of reminding/demanding that Casey be responsible. It all blew up in her face and she lost. She was not honest with herself about what was really happening in her home; my guess is she just went along with it because confronting KC was too much screaming.

There is a poster with the nic "they drew straws and Caylee lost". That about sums it up.

Do you think Cindy feels guilty for making Casey keep Caylee and therefore blames herself, so in her twisted logic feels like Casey was driven to that point therefore CA needs to defend her because in some ways it is her fault

[onlykaty]

Yep, I'm a night owl tonite..I have been reading here and keeping up on the case. Lots of very knowledgeable people post on this board. I just cannot get by the 31 days. Casey's actions can be called whatever name they want to call it, but no mother, or anyone who even knew the child could act the way she did if a child is kidnapped. I can find no excuses for Casey no matter what kind of life she had for killing her child or anyone else's as far as that goes. I have zero tolerence for those who can take anothers life. What that poor child suffered during her last few minutes on this earth is probably beyond anything even in our wild imagination we can fathom. No matter how much her parents contributed to Casey's nasty self, its still no excuse. As for George and Cindy I'm sure they will have many sleepless nights. They both need to end living off the death of their grand daughter and go back to work. Maybe if they did they might just be able to get the sympathy that George so begged for in court. "UGLY COPING" I hope she suffers many many times before her death..maybe that sounds mean but I cannot think of anything more horrible than what she did.

[Scampi]

although this diagram is not of a child, so the proportions would be slightly different, by looking at this skull http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.upstate.edu/cdb/grossanat/imgs/skullantmax5.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.upstate.edu/cdb/grossanat/hnskullantmax5.shtml&h=400&w=319&sz=128&tbnid=dTggBKGStSVAiM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=99&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmaxilla&hl=en&usg=__8ejmmeP06NNWd8mEvOA9DjbAWAc=&ei=Nb49SrCyE5HatgOasoy7Dw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=7&ct=image , a piece of tape across the nostrils (which would be the lower portion of the nasal aperture) would also cover the maxilla and mandible... if long enough, it would cover the temporomandibular joint (tmj) and could catch on any hair that was loose along the side of her face. if the tape was longer and wrapped around more toward the back of her head, it could have caught more of her hair, including a ponytail

after reading the autopsy report with the description of the knot of matted hair at the back of her head, i wondered if her hair was in a ponytail (she is wearing it in a ponytail in the 'you are my sunshine' video)

very sad to try and picture all this :sad:

Thank you Aloha for this link. I'm am now wondering if indeed the tape was originally wrapped entirely around poor Caylee's head, but thru time and water exposure some of the tape at the rear of the head is missing, leaving the tape held into place by the hair.

Anyone who went thru the scott peterson trial, will recall the days and days of testimony about the "loop" that was found around little Connor's neck. I think the fight over this tape will make that look like a snap decision.

Morning all.

[Susie419]

IMO they know deep in their hearts that their daughter killed Caylee.
Being a mother of two daughters with children, I try to put myself in their shoes and look at the situation from their perspective.
As awful as it is, as horrific as the loss of Caylee has been for them, they have yet to face the fact that they will again lose another, their daughter. A mothers love is SO deep, so unconditional, I feel that denial is their only way of coping with this whole terrible ordeal.
If it were myself, I'd perhaps be blaming myself for something/someway that I failed my daughter which ultimately led to her actions of killing her baby.I'd convince myself that "she surely is sick" and went temporarily insane to do such an act, I'd then be desperately lost and hopelessly hoping against hope that they'de at least spare my daughters life, yes, in spite of what she did. Deserving she may be, of punishment, but doesn't change the fact that I'd rather see my daughter sit in prison for life, and at least have the chance of seeing her breathe, than to see her put to death, that is not something the A's can cope with, IMO.
Their actions ARE inexcusable. Casey IS a monster. And I do believe she deserves the DP, but I was just trying to analyse it from a parents' perspective, they are frantic at the thought of their once sweet little girl being exterminated for her crimes.Love is unconditional, it is impossible to stop loving, no matter how horrible she has become.
I would hope and pray that I never would be in their shoes, and deep in my heart of hearts, I grieve for them, G&C, and the extended family, for what the future holds for them. There is no light at the end of this dark future tunnel, only desperation and hopelessness and grief.
How truly tragic this whole ordeal has become.:sad:

[~jomomma~]

i have not read all the reports but i think i remember the first report saying something about (is it?) the bottom row of teeth were still in place? i'm sorry if that's wrong....don't remember what i read.

anyway....check this out
http://www.boneclones.com/BC-275.htm

this is a 2 year old skull. they have all different ages. do you think the measurements they give are comparable to real life?
6 1/2" Long x 4 1/2" Wide x 5 1/4" High

if the tape was the common 2" wide...it would very easily cover the nostrils and mouth. i see it wrapped multiple times in order to hold the mandible in place for that amount of time in those conditions.

omg, it makes me sick thinking about it. i hope poor caylee was out of it before this tape was placed. but then, why the need for tape?

by looking at this, the size of skull and tape, the only thing showing would be her beautiful eyes (barely). :crying:

[onlykaty]

Thank you Aloha for this link. I'm am now wondering if indeed the tape was originally wrapped entirely around poor Caylee's head, but thru time and water exposure some of the tape at the rear of the head is missing, leaving the tape held into place by the hair.

Anyone who went thru the scott peterson trial, will recall the days and days of testimony about the "loop" that was found around little Connor's neck. I think the fight over this tape will make that look like a snap decision.

Morning all.

I cannot beleive that anyone could do that to a child. I love my children with all my heart and soul, would gladly lay down my for either one of them. In my heart I beleive she did tape that childs head with duct tape to shut her up, spite her mom and then be able to go off and happily life her life.. Without Kaylee she no longer needed her parents, she could then go off and party and live off stealing and guys who would let her stay with them or sex. CA has no conscious and neither will the jury when they find her "GUILTY" of murder 1. I find her to be one of the most dispicable individuals I have read about, its so obvious she is guilty and she stands not a chance in he** of ever seeing another free moment nor the the good sunshine of light of day, when that happens I will be so gratefull to the jury members that is responsible for putting her where she belongs ...Six feet under or in prison for the rest of her natural life.

I need to stop now, I have never been as worked up as I am about this case, so tragic and so senseless. All the people in this world that cannot have children and someone like Casey gets this darling little child and murders her. I can see now why GA nd CA didn't want the autopsy public, it makes us all realize what a horrible monster they spawned. sorry folks, I'll honestly will stop now..

[desmom]

One year ago today ........ June 21, 2008

Maria Kissh said Casey hung out at Tone’s all weekend. She asked where Caylee was and Casey said at the beach with the nanny. Page 5 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Kissh%20%20Maria-0717.pdf

No text messages between Amy and Casey located in doc dumps.

Casey’s phone records http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2385297/Casey_Anthony_cell_records_615_to_716
Casey’s ping logs: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p6Pnw95vqOo-MgZ7Vsp9pYg&gid=6

[zinnia]

Do you think Cindy feels guilty for making Casey keep Caylee and therefore blames herself, so in her twisted logic feels like Casey was driven to that point therefore CA needs to defend her because in some ways it is her fault

Actually I do think that. I think she falsely believed that since Casey got pregnant she should step up and keep the child; that was the right thing to do. It would be interesting to know if Cindy was pg when she got married to George. At 7 months pg Cindy was in total denial that Casey had had sex; seems to me she was punishing her for it. Casey wasn't done being a child and was not going to be forced into responsible mothering no matter what Cindy said/did. So Caylee was the weapon between them. Cindy wanted Casey to grow up; Casey wanted to keep being a child.
This is a poor illistration but its like the puppy your kid brings home and then you have to take care of it. You tell them to feed, water etc and they don't so you do. Then one day you have had it and tell them to grow up, take responsibility or you are taking it away from them. Only in this case it was a child and Casey reacted by taking her away because she knew that would hurt Cindy more.
I don't think Casey premeditated murdering Caylee. I think she allowed her anger against her mom to be vented on a small child. That the duct tape was a tool her mother used on her to keep her quiet as a child only Caseys rage at that moment (she was going to have to figure out how to take care of herself and her daughter) was so complete that she took it out on Caylee.
Cindy is so irrational in her actions it just seems to me that she has to support Casey or admit her part in this.

[onlykaty]

One year ago today ........ June 21, 2008

Maria Kissh said Casey hung out at Tone’s all weekend. She asked where Caylee was and Casey said at the beach with the nanny. Page 5 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Kissh%20%20Maria-0717.pdf

No text messages between Amy and Casey located in doc dumps.

Casey’s phone records http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2385297/Casey_Anthony_cell_records_615_to_716
Casey’s ping logs: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p6Pnw95vqOo-MgZ7Vsp9pYg&gid=6

desmom I come here everyday to read all your daily posts, even before I registered. It was confusing for me at first to keep the people straight who they actually were and what part they played in CA's life, but the daily posts you make like this makes it all very clear. Just wanted to Thank you for all you do.

[desmom]

We are all shocked about tape being used on Caylee. It is not something new.....

Child's mouth taped shut at martial arts camp
http://www.wellsphere.com/martial-arts-article/child-s-mouth-taped-shut-at-martial-arts-camp/401433

Officials: Neo-natal nurse taped pacifier to child's mouth
http://www.wistv.com/global/story.asp?s=10323958

Newborn Found with Pacifier Taped in Mouth, Nursery Shutdown
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298228,00.html

Lawsuit: Durham Teacher Taped Child's Mouth Shut
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/158486/

Metro teacher suspended for taping child's mouth shut
http://www.nospank.net/n-s23.htm

Another Teacher Stuck in a Tape Investigation
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Another-Prince-Georges-Teacher-Stuck-in-Duct-Tape-Investigation.html

[Explorer]

I cannot beleive that anyone could do that to a child. I love my children with all my heart and soul, would gladly lay down my for either one of them. In my heart I beleive she did tape that childs head with duct tape to shut her up, spite her mom and then be able to go off and happily life her life.. Without Kaylee she no longer needed her parents, she could then go off and party and live off stealing and guys who would let her stay with them or sex. CA has no conscious and neither will the jury when they find her "GUILTY" of murder 1. I find her to be one of the most dispicable individuals I have read about, its so obvious she is guilty and she stands not a chance in he** of ever seeing another free moment nor the the good sunshine of light of day, when that happens I will be so gratefull to the jury members that is responsible for putting her where she belongs ...Six feet under or in prison for the rest of her natural life.

I need to stop now, I have never been as worked up as I am about this case, so tragic and so senseless. All the people in this world that cannot have children and someone like Casey gets this darling little child and murders her. I can see now why GA nd CA didn't want the autopsy public, it makes us all realize what a horrible monster they spawned. sorry folks, I'll honestly will stop now..

Same here. I live for my kids. They are the future. When theyre happy im happy. I cant imagine living in a world without them.

[Explorer]

Another thing, when they were Caylees age they were never left with strangers or babysitters or anything like that. Im their mom im responsible for them and no one else.

[Explorer]

Another thing that twisted me is when casey anthony said Zenaida took Caylee to the WATER PARK???? A waterpark??? 2and a half years old and she is to supposed to have let a babysitter/stranger take her to a waterpark???? never never never:cursing:

[desmom]

i have not read all the reports but i think i remember the first report saying something about (is it?) the bottom row of teeth were still in place? i'm sorry if that's wrong....don't remember what i read.

anyway....check this out
http://www.boneclones.com/BC-275.htm

this is a 2 year old skull. they have all different ages. do you think the measurements they give are comparable to real life?
6 1/2" Long x 4 1/2" Wide x 5 1/4" High

if the tape was the common 2" wide...it would very easily cover the nostrils and mouth. i see it wrapped multiple times in order to hold the mandible in place for that amount of time in those conditions.
--snipped--

Looking around the site you linked, I found a 3 year old's skull model. http://www.boneclones.com/bc-210.htm

The measurements are 6 1/2" Long, 4 3/4" Wide, 5 1/4" High. The only difference between a 2 year old and a 3 year old is the width.

I agree with the width of duct tape being able to cover the mouth and nose of a 3 year old.

My experience with using duct tape: Duct tape must be a man thing because I hate working with it. If the last one to use the roll did not fold the edge over, it is difficult to get a hold of the end. When I try to place the tape where I want it, it always adheres with a bubble or wrinkle in it somewhere....if I can get it there without it sticking to itself. And I can never pull off a small piece. It is always longer than what I needed and have to cut off the excess.

jmo

[zinnia]

Another thing that twisted me is when casey anthony said Zenaida took Caylee to the WATER PARK???? A waterpark??? 2and a half years old and she is to supposed to have let a babysitter/stranger take her to a waterpark???? never never never:cursing:

Whats worse is that no one she told that to said they thought that was a bad idea.

[AnnieBell]

You night owls are going to make me start staying up late at night. Perhaps we're having some trouble making that 24 hour window on June 15 to the 16th fit perfectly because there's a missing piece which I believe some have already touched on. That piece may be Lee. He lived close to the family home which could explain the cell tower pinging, he was probably the only one Casey really trusted and felt understood her. Their relationship has always made me think this is just way not normal. Some blame his laugh as a nervous sign but I get a creep chill up my back. We may need to get out our flashlights and let out the hound dogs and start looking for him. No one has seen or heard from him since his deposition with M&M. Could he have left the state or country so he wouldn't have to testify against his sissy or face charges himself?

[onlykaty]

Another thing, when they were Caylees age they were never left with strangers or babysitters or anything like that. Im their mom im responsible for them and no one else.


same here!! Never have left either of my boys with anyone other than family and that is only when I go christmas shopping or when there is an emergency. As a rule, its either their dad or I that is with them 99% of the time. I am fortunate to be a stay at home mom and I love and cherish every moment of it. As a parent we are responsible for our children and our parents are not responsible to watch them so we can go out and have "BIG FUN" no matter what our age. Once you have a child its time to grow up and think past oneself..jmo

[zinnia]

You night owls are going to make me start staying up late at night. Perhaps we're having some trouble making that 24 hour window on June 15 to the 16th fit perfectly because there's a missing piece which I believe some have already touched on. That piece may be Lee. He lived close to the family home which could explain the cell tower pinging, he was probably the only one Casey really trusted and felt understood her. Their relationship has always made me think this is just way not normal. Some blame his laugh as a nervous sign but I get a creep chill up my back. We may need to get out our flashlights and let out the hound dogs and start looking for him. No one has seen or heard from him since his deposition with M&M. Could he have left the state or country so he wouldn't have to testify against his sissy or face charges himself?

Very good point. Are HIS phone/text messages posted somewhere??

[Explorer]

same here!! Never have left either of my boys with anyone other than family and that is only when I go christmas shopping or when there is an emergency. As a rule, its either their dad or I that is with them 99% of the time. I am fortunate to be a stay at home mom and I love and cherish every moment of it. As a parent we are responsible for our children and our parents are not responsible to watch them so we can go out and have "BIG FUN" no matter what our age. Once you have a child its time to grow up and think past oneself..jmo

Thats when nature kicks in and tells you that party days are going to have to take a back seat there is a child that needs you 24/7.

[AnnieBell]

Very good point. Are HIS phone/text messages posted somewhere??

I think you may be on to something. Has anyone seen any documents pertaining to Mallory Parker, his girlfriend? Curious because in that last dump of docs.. there was an interview with a man who had talked to a waitress who worked with Mallory who stated that Mallory had made comments about this case early on in the case. Don't forget both Mallory and Jodi are listed as board members of the Anthony foundation.

[zinnia]

Thats when nature kicks in and tells you that party days are going to have to take a back seat there is a child that needs you 24/7.

I think this is why it makes me so very angry. Makes a lot of people angry. Cases where the parents neglect or harm their children. Throw them away like trash, abuse them. When you have a child then you are second to what they need.
It takes more to get a drivers license then have a baby.

[zinnia]

I think you may be on to something. Has anyone seen any documents pertaining to Mallory Parker, his girlfriend? Curious because in that last dump of docs.. there was an interview with a man who had talked to a waitress who worked with Mallory who stated that Mallory had made comments about this case early on in the case. Don't forget both Mallory and Jodi are listed as board members of the Anthony foundation.

Didn't know that. Hmmm. Hush money?? Was it stated for certain if Mallory was pregnant? Do you remember the name of the man? I will go look....

[Steps]

You night owls are going to make me start staying up late at night. Perhaps we're having some trouble making that 24 hour window on June 15 to the 16th fit perfectly because there's a missing piece which I believe some have already touched on. That piece may be Lee. He lived close to the family home which could explain the cell tower pinging, he was probably the only one Casey really trusted and felt understood her. Their relationship has always made me think this is just way not normal. Some blame his laugh as a nervous sign but I get a creep chill up my back. We may need to get out our flashlights and let out the hound dogs and start looking for him. No one has seen or heard from him since his deposition with M&M. Could he have left the state or country so he wouldn't have to testify against his sissy or face charges himself?

I agree, AnnieBell, it is very strange that George and Cindy are getting their faces out there as often as they can, but Lee seems to have gone missing! I would like to think that maybe he is realizing how foolish his parents are looking everytime they are opening their mouths and wants to keep a low profile now. Or maybe with his constant giggle the attorneys feel it's best to keep him at home!

[Susie419]

What is it?
Does she really think she's going to get out and go soak up the sun on the beach when this is all over?
Can't she see that nobody believes her lies?
Can't she see that it would benefit herself to admit to losing it in a "fit of rage" and face getting off with maybe 10 yrs with possible parole?
Is it better to take a shot at getting "death penalty" and hoping for aquittal? How dumb is she?
Do ya'll think these attorneys are telling her the "REALITY" of the situation and telling her to plea and admit it?
If you were her parent, instead of covering these lies and pretending to believe everything she says, wouldn't you be begging her to "Please, admit what you've done and take a chance at a plea deal?

With everything that's come out, HOW can she sit there and smile and primp her hair, act like a celebrity, and believe she remotely has a chance to walk out of there?
I find it incredible and unbelivable that nobody has broken through to her and made her aware of the impossible situation she is in.

I guess I just can't fathom the mind of a narcissistic sociopath.
Do they not have some ability to think logically when in dire circumstances such as these?

I've always been fascinated by the criminal mind and it's way of thinking, read many true crime stories(Anne Rule is my fav. author)
but this Casey A. just blows my mind. I just can't get my head around her way of thinking.
But then, my mind goes back to the likes of Scott Peterson, there he sits on DR in SQ, still denying his dirty deed even after being convicted.
Is it worth death, rather than lose face and admit their lies?
Do they just deny it because their parents have put them so high up on a pedestal that they crave that adoration and would rather die than lose their standing in the eyes of their believers?
:confused:

[Explorer]

What is it?
Does she really think she's going to get out and go soak up the sun on the beach when this is all over?
Can't she see that nobody believes her lies?
Can't she see that it would benefit herself to admit to losing it in a "fit of rage" and face getting off with maybe 10 yrs with possible parole?
Is it better to take a shot at getting "death penalty" and hoping for aquittal? How dumb is she?
Do ya'll think these attorneys are telling her the "REALITY" of the situation and telling her to plea and admit it?
If you were her parent, instead of covering these lies and pretending to believe everything she says, wouldn't you be begging her to "Please, admit what you've done and take a chance at a plea deal?

With everything that's come out, HOW can she sit there and smile and primp her hair, act like a celebrity, and believe she remotely has a chance to walk out of there?
I find it incredible and unbelivable that nobody has broken through to her and made her aware of the impossible situation she is in.

I guess I just can't fathom the mind of a narcissistic sociopath.
Do they not have some ability to think logically when in dire circumstances such as these?

I've always been fascinated by the criminal mind and it's way of thinking, read many true crime stories(Anne Rule is my fav. author)
but this Casey A. just blows my mind. I just can't get my head around her way of thinking.
But then, my mind goes back to the likes of Scott Peterson, there he sits on DR in SQ, still denying his dirty deed even after being convicted.
Is it worth death, rather than lose face and admit their lies?
Do they just deny it because their parents have put them so high up on a pedestal that they crave that adoration and would rather die than lose their standing in the eyes of their believers?
:confused:

This case is going to make it in medical journals. An entire mentally ill family and how it resulted in the death of a child.

[Steps]

What is it?
Does she really think she's going to get out and go soak up the sun on the beach when this is all over?
Can't she see that nobody believes her lies?
Can't she see that it would benefit herself to admit to losing it in a "fit of rage" and face getting off with maybe 10 yrs with possible parole?
Is it better to take a shot at getting "death penalty" and hoping for aquittal? How dumb is she?
Do ya'll think these attorneys are telling her the "REALITY" of the situation and telling her to plea and admit it?
If you were her parent, instead of covering these lies and pretending to believe everything she says, wouldn't you be begging her to "Please, admit what you've done and take a chance at a plea deal?

With everything that's come out, HOW can she sit there and smile and primp her hair, act like a celebrity, and believe she remotely has a chance to walk out of there?
I find it incredible and unbelivable that nobody has broken through to her and made her aware of the impossible situation she is in.

I guess I just can't fathom the mind of a narcissistic sociopath.
Do they not have some ability to think logically when in dire circumstances such as these?

I've always been fascinated by the criminal mind and it's way of thinking, read many true crime stories(Anne Rule is my fav. author)
but this Casey A. just blows my mind. I just can't get my head around her way of thinking.
But then, my mind goes back to the likes of Scott Peterson, there he sits on DR in SQ, still denying his dirty deed even after being convicted.
Is it worth death, rather than lose face and admit their lies?
Do they just deny it because their parents have put them so high up on a pedestal that they crave that adoration and would rather die than lose their standing in the eyes of their believers?
:confused:

Excellent post Susie! Anne Rule is one of my favorites too. Casey is like Scott Peterson. She will deny what she did to the bitter end!

[summer4meplz]

Snazzy, I agree.

I'm going to be making a few phone calls this afternoon to Florida officials, that's for sure.

and what are you going to say....."I am a member of a message board and an anonymous member says she knows someone who knows someone that has said things that may or may not be true...."

you really know how to warm up to people.....:thumbdown:

[onlykaty]

Thats when nature kicks in and tells you that party days are going to have to take a back seat there is a child that needs you 24/7.

Exactly! Don't excuse GA or CA for their actions and how they have seemed to be able to live comfortably without working now, but I don't for one second blame them for Casey taking little Kaylee's life. Casey made that choice. Lots of dyfunctional families in this world but they still don't murder their children. No family is perfect. There were lots of different directions Casey could have taken but she chose to take the selfish ones. I honestly think we are born with empathy or we are not. There has to be some reason that some can so callously take a child and be so cruel. George and Cindy both live in denial and feel so guilty that it seems to me they have to play it the way they are or otherwise they couldn't live themselves. I know if a child of mine did what Casey did I always would feel like some where along the line I had failed as a parent, which seems like something neither one are able to admit.. They neither one will ever be happy with all the money they are making off of Kaylee's death, life as they knew it is over. I actually pity them.

[Scampi]

This case is going to make it in medical journals. An entire mentally ill family and how it resulted in the death of a child.

I believe that Andrea Lyon will do her very best to have a forensic psychiatrist do a complete workup of this family, in her effort to "excuse and mitigate" the OC's evil deeds. cindy will just love it.

[summer4meplz]

We are all shocked about tape being used on Caylee. It is not something new.....

Child's mouth taped shut at martial arts camp
http://www.wellsphere.com/martial-arts-article/child-s-mouth-taped-shut-at-martial-arts-camp/401433

Officials: Neo-natal nurse taped pacifier to child's mouth
http://www.wistv.com/global/story.asp?s=10323958

Newborn Found with Pacifier Taped in Mouth, Nursery Shutdown
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298228,00.html

Lawsuit: Durham Teacher Taped Child's Mouth Shut
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/158486/

Metro teacher suspended for taping child's mouth shut
http://www.nospank.net/n-s23.htm

Another Teacher Stuck in a Tape Investigation
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Another-Prince-Georges-Teacher-Stuck-in-Duct-Tape-Investigation.html

Desmom....just wanted to add my note of appreciation for all your links...you are awesome.....:thumbsup:

[onlykaty]

I believe that Andrea Lyon will do her very best to have a forensic psychiatrist do a complete workup of this family, in her effort to "excuse and mitigate" the OC's evil deeds. cindy will just love it.

I completely agree with you. The bottom line is NO ONE can make u take your childs life, that was Casey's decision, it was pure "evil" that made her do it..jmo

[desmom]

I believe that Andrea Lyon will do her very best to have a forensic psychiatrist do a complete workup of this family, in her effort to "excuse and mitigate" the OC's evil deeds. cindy will just love it.

Would it work? No one in that family can tell the truth without twisting, turning and sugar coating the it before it comes out of their mouth.

The forensic psych better come armed with a very good carp detector...imo.

[Explorer]

and what are you going to say....."I am a member of a message board and an anonymous member says she knows someone who knows someone that has said things that may or may not be true...."

you really know how to warm up to people.....:thumbdown:

:thumbsup: ROFLMAO:rolleyes:

[Explorer]

I completely agree with you. The bottom line is NO ONE can make u take your childs life, that was Casey's decision, it was pure "evil" that made her do it..jmo

Well um Ms. Lyon certainly has a lot to work with.

[Explorer]

When you think of it thats the ONLY route they can go. The Zenaida Jesse Amy Kronk Ricardo could have done it just isnt going to cut the mustard.

[Thisbe II]

I believe that Andrea Lyon will do her very best to have a forensic psychiatrist do a complete workup of this family, in her effort to "excuse and mitigate" the OC's evil deeds. cindy will just love it.

Yes I think she will get a complete work up and I imagine she will get a diagnosis of Sociopathic Personality Disorder with Narcisstic and borderline features.

Gin

[Explorer]

Exactly! Don't excuse GA or CA for their actions and how they have seemed to be able to live comfortably without working now, but I don't for one second blame them for Casey taking little Kaylee's life. Casey made that choice. Lots of dyfunctional families in this world but they still don't murder their children. No family is perfect. There were lots of different directions Casey could have taken but she chose to take the selfish ones. I honestly think we are born with empathy or we are not. There has to be some reason that some can so callously take a child and be so cruel. George and Cindy both live in denial and feel so guilty that it seems to me they have to play it the way they are or otherwise they couldn't live themselves. I know if a child of mine did what Casey did I always would feel like some where along the line I had failed as a parent, which seems like something neither one are able to admit.. They neither one will ever be happy with all the money they are making off of Kaylee's death, life as they knew it is over. I actually pity them.

I believe that too. No amount of money is going to ease their troubled black souls.

[Explorer]

What happenes whe they have another grandchild? They look into that angelface and they know how horribly they failed as grandparents.

[haveaniceday]

[QUOTE=~
omg, it makes me sick thinking about it. i hope poor caylee was out of it before this tape was placed. but then, why the need for tape?

by looking at this, the size of skull and tape, the only thing showing would be her beautiful eyes (barely). :crying:[/QUOTE]


IMO KC placed the tape after death. When Caylee started to decompose, maybe fluids were leaking through her mouth. KC taped her mouth shut to avoid any more leakage.
I hope this was the case

[desmom]

Lies, Lies and more lies. The family exists in a world of lies.

The gas cans - When the gas can story came out, George originally said the cans had been returned and a neighbor was responsible.

Tone told LE about going to the house to get the gas cans in his interview dated 7/22/08.
http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_A_Lazzaro072208.htm The public records request for the burglary report was posted on 7/28 http://www.ocso.com/Default.aspx?tabid=547 IMO, this is not something LE would have kept under their hat. I bet they called George on it rather quickly.

On August 5, George admits on national TV Casey took the gas cans. George had known the truth about the gas cans since they day he discovered they had been stolen.

On-line Scam - George told LE he was hooked into one of those on line scams. Shirley Plesea told her sister in an email George was into on line gambling and used newly applied for credit cards to cover the debt.

George said "the kidnappers are being watched", "Caylee has been moved 9 times and I have been to some of the places where she had been".....if the kidnappers were being watched, what the heck was he waiting for? An invitation to come in and visit?

Sports Authority - George told LE he went to Sports Authority and asked Ryan if Casey worked at SA. They knew she did not work there. Where the heck did they think she was going at night when she went to "work"?

jmo

[joolz]

If you bare posting on "inside info" your kids are breaking the rules, and the killer could get off. Please don't jeopardize that. Or may be it's not true.:mad:


:confused: What the heck does "if you bare posting" mean? And who are you lecturing? And why? You can't seriously think that anything posted here will jeopardize this case, can you? :laugh:

[Susie419]

Exactly! Don't excuse GA or CA for their actions and how they have seemed to be able to live comfortably without working now, but I don't for one second blame them for Casey taking little Kaylee's life. Casey made that choice. Lots of dyfunctional families in this world but they still don't murder their children. No family is perfect. There were lots of different directions Casey could have taken but she chose to take the selfish ones. I honestly think we are born with empathy or we are not. There has to be some reason that some can so callously take a child and be so cruel. George and Cindy both live in denial and feel so guilty that it seems to me they have to play it the way they are or otherwise they couldn't live themselves. I know if a child of mine did what Casey did I always would feel like some where along the line I had failed as a parent, which seems like something neither one are able to admit.. They neither one will ever be happy with all the money they are making off of Kaylee's death, life as they knew it is over. I actually pity them.*********************************************

I too, do pity them somewhat. After all, however inexcusable their lies and attempts to cover up their daughters deeds, they must find it to be dreadful to awaken each morning and face a new day, that cloud following them each day, the dark, foreboding truth that they can never escape, Caylee is gone, Casey is forever lost to them, and somehow they must go on.
Work? I can't see how thay can possibly find going back to work at this time the right thing to do. They will be subjected to ridicule, criticizm, opinions, questions, judgements....life as they knew it ended a year ago, and perhaps they want to be advocates for missing children simply because it's more familiar to them, and people who have undergone the similar circumstances make them feel more at ease, around those who know what they have endured.
jmo

[AMS]

I believe that Andrea Lyon will do her very best to have a forensic psychiatrist do a complete workup of this family, in her effort to "excuse and mitigate" the OC's evil deeds. cindy will just love it.

ITA and a psychiatric analysis of that bunch would lead to months and months of testimony :w00t:

imo

[rbrnmw]

Actually I do think that. I think she falsely believed that since Casey got pregnant she should step up and keep the child; that was the right thing to do. It would be interesting to know if Cindy was pg when she got married to George. At 7 months pg Cindy was in total denial that Casey had had sex; seems to me she was punishing her for it. Casey wasn't done being a child and was not going to be forced into responsible mothering no matter what Cindy said/did. So Caylee was the weapon between them. Cindy wanted Casey to grow up; Casey wanted to keep being a child.
This is a poor illistration but its like the puppy your kid brings home and then you have to take care of it. You tell them to feed, water etc and they don't so you do. Then one day you have had it and tell them to grow up, take responsibility or you are taking it away from them. Only in this case it was a child and Casey reacted by taking her away because she knew that would hurt Cindy more.
I don't think Casey premeditated murdering Caylee. I think she allowed her anger against her mom to be vented on a small child. That the duct tape was a tool her mother used on her to keep her quiet as a child only Caseys rage at that moment (she was going to have to figure out how to take care of herself and her daughter) was so complete that she took it out on Caylee.
Cindy is so irrational in her actions it just seems to me that she has to support Casey or admit her part in this.
very well put I agree and I think Cindy is on the brink of a nervous breakdown when the walls start crumbling around her defense mechanisms she will have to believe she created the monster that murdered her beloved granddaughter. I think she will still never ever admit it publicly but I think deep down she knows Casey is the one who killed Caylee but when reality starts to service she pushes it out of her mind She won't even admit to the argument she had with her, she has this alternate reality story of Casey going off on a vacation to bond with Caylee, and how Caylee talked about the elusive zanny the nanny's dogs. She knows it isnt true she forces herself to believe it because the truth is far too horrific to digest IMO

[Explorer]

very well put I agree and I think Cindy is on the brink of a nervous breakdown when the walls start crumbling around her defense mechanisms she will have to believe she created the monster that murdered her beloved granddaughter. I think she will still never ever admit it publicly but I think deep down she knows Casey is the one who killed Caylee but when reality starts to service she pushes it out of her mind She won't even admit to the argument she had with her, she has this alternate reality story of Casey going off on a vacation to bond with Caylee, and how Caylee talked about the elusive zanny the nanny's dogs. She knows it isnt true she forces herself to believe it because the truth is far too horrific to digest IMO

I like your tag line a wise statement from a wise lady. Mrs. Kennedy should know shes been through it all.

[desmom]

*********************************************

I too, do pity them somewhat. After all, however inexcusable their lies and attempts to cover up their daughters deeds, they must find it to be dreadful to awaken each morning and face a new day, that cloud following them each day, the dark, foreboding truth that they can never escape, Caylee is gone, Casey is forever lost to them, and somehow they must go on.
Work? I can't see how thay can possibly find going back to work at this time the right thing to do. They will be subjected to ridicule, criticizm, opinions, questions, judgements....life as they knew it ended a year ago, and perhaps they want to be advocates for missing children simply because it's more familiar to them, and people who have undergone the similar circumstances make them feel more at ease, around those who know what they have endured.
jmo

IMO, G & C have had a lot of hindsight 20/20 type conversations...we should have or if we would have.

G & C returning to work IMO would be very good for them. I think they are probably checking message boards, news outlets and blogs everyday to see what is being said about them or Casey. This is not going to help the healing process but add more to their pain.

G & C being advocates for missing children IMO is an oxymoron. I am sorry, but their behavior, lies and accusations in the media are not the type of people I would want assisting me or my family if we had a child go missing.

jmo

[Scampi]

Would it work? No one in that family can tell the truth without twisting, turning and sugar coating the it before it comes out of their mouth.

The forensic psych better come armed with a very good carp detector...imo.

Des, you think any expert hired by this defense team is actually looking for "the truth?" I don't, they are looking for any smoke, mirror or insinuation that will help free this babykiller.

BTW Des, what defense do you believe Lyon is going to go with?

[Heyes]

Good morning,
just getting caught up with this weeks events. I wached the hearing. George really poured it on, didn't he. Before he spoke to the judge I noticed he would do his best to place Caylee's picture so the press could get a good shot. I personaly gave his acting job a 6. Had I not witnessed his behavior for the past year I might of given him a 9. He worked it best he could I suppose. cindy refused to look at the judge, shaking her head, mumbling things. I was suprised she didn't blert out.. *This is unfair! Our pain and anquish should come before any of Florida's stupid laws. then, (finger shaking, eyes bulging.) YOU WILL PAY FOR THIS! Just like all the other maggots that go against us!
I also noticed george didn't seem to want his wife touching him. He couldn't get further away from her and remain in that chair if he tried. George couldn't maintain. He had to show how upset he was, jumping up, storming out. What a immature lying POS. These people need to be cleaning the sides of Floridas highways in little orange jackets for years to come. And Baez trying to pull that sneaky, I'll save this, nonsense just left me laughing. The judge and everyone else exited the courtroom as he stood there still yammering about,,,well,,,, nothing.
Then there's Brad.....lol lol lol wow Thank heavens he had cindy there to tell him what to say,,,, sheeesh. Maybe he should move cindy up to the table with him so she wont have to strain herself leaning over that rail to give her puppet directions.
What a bunch of knucklheads.
Trial should be very entertaining.

[Explorer]

Good morning,
just getting caught up with this weeks events. I wached the hearing. George really poured it on, didn't he. Before he spoke to the judge I noticed he would do his best to place Caylee's picture so the press could get a good shot. I personaly gave his acting job a 6. Had I not witnessed his behavior for the past year I might of given him a 9. He worked it best he could I suppose. cindy refused to look at the judge, shaking her head, mumbling things. I was suprised she didn't blert out.. *This is unfair! Our pain and anquish should come before any of Florida's stupid laws. then, (finger shaking, eyes bulging.) YOU WILL PAY FOR THIS! Just like all the other maggots that go against us!
I also noticed george didn't seem to want his wife touching him. He couldn't get further away from her and remain in that chair if he tried. George couldn't maintain. He had to show how upset he was, jumping up, storming out. What a immature lying POS. These people need to be cleaning the sides of Floridas highways in little orange jackets for years to come. And Baez trying to pull that sneaky, I'll save this, nonsense just left me laughing. The judge and everyone else exited the courtroom as he stood there still yammering about,,,well,,,, nothing.
Then there's Brad.....lol lol lol wow Thank heavens he had cindy there to tell him what to say,,,, sheeesh. Maybe he should move cindy up to the table with him so she wont have to strain herself leaning over that rail to give her puppet directions.
What a bunch of knucklheads.
Trial should be very entertaining.

Drama Drama Drama. A lot of head shaking, crying, hand waving, anything to distract from the real issue at hand.

[Amy]

nah, you sound like you always do. :tonguewag:


I agree that sometimes we wish the murderers would experience the same pain they inflicted on their victims. Instead we get a glimpse of how well protected they are in jail and free to order whatever the heck they want from the jail commissary. Crazy people even depositing money in their jail account.

It's disgusting.

What is disgusting to me is the whining and complaining about how the methods of carrying out the death penalty is so inhumane. Like, the murderers considered how inhumane the killing of their victims is? The closest DR inmates get to "torture" is waiting to see what the execution date is, whether or not there is will be a stay on the execution.

I was reading somewhere the other day where a poster says that the lethal injection IS painful. I have had concsious sedation several times. If I understand it correctly, this is used, one of the injections being a drug used in concsious sedation. I am here to tell you that, if I felt any pain, or if I had trouble breathing, to this day, I couldn't tell you. I do remember things from several hours later, fuzzy images of people talking, etc. So EVEN IF the lethal injection is "painful" the person would not be aware of it, IMO. The most pain that would be felt is the insertion of the needle. Cry me a river.

[Heyes]

Drama Drama Drama. A lot of head shaking, crying, hand waving, anything to distract from the real issue at hand.

Regarding them going back to work. I watched one of those nightly entertainment shows the other night. They were talking about John Travolta, how he went back to work, but didn't want to do the red carpet or any of the parties or press junkets because he stiil wasn't ready after the death of his son. All I could think of was how george and cindy refuse to go back to work but love nothing more than a press junket or a meet and greet or even a day drag racing.
What's wrong with this picture?

[desmom]

Des, you think any expert hired by this defense team is actually looking for "the truth?" I don't, they are looking for any smoke, mirror or insinuation that will help free this babykiller.

BTW Des, what defense do you believe Lyon is going to go with?

Well buffalo chips what was I thinking!?! :punch: Of course the defense team is not looking for the truth. They will not use anything from a psych that would shine negatively on their client. Sorry. Need more coffee.

I have no idea...Casey was temporarily insane? Casey suffered from PPD? Someone else did it? Someone in the family did it and Casey has been protecting them?

I don't think she will go with any of Cindy's scenarios she provided to LE. :tonguewag:

jmo

[sammy62]

Good Morning All

Happy Father's Day to any dad's here.

Thanks Des....you do a great job. :wub:

[Scampi]

IMO KC placed the tape after death. When Caylee started to decompose, maybe fluids were leaking through her mouth. KC taped her mouth shut to avoid any more leakage.
I hope this was the case

I don't believe this for one second. There is no proof any fluid was leaking from Caylee's mouth or nose and even if there had been, duct tape would not be the ideal choice to stop it, a balled up cloth rag stuffed into the mouth would, imo.

[Explorer]

Regarding them going back to work. I watched one of those nightly entertainment shows the other night. They were talking about John Travolta, how he went back to work, but didn't want to do the red carpet or any of the parties or press junkets because he stiil wasn't ready after the death of his son. All I could think of was how george and cindy refuse to go back to work but love nothing more than a press junket or a meet and greet or even a day drag racing.
What's wrong with this picture?

Thats the difference between sincere and phoney.

[Amy]

IMO, the argument was over her embezzling money from her own grandmother, for cryin' out loud! Money meant to pay for her grandfather's care!! Casey stole money from her mother's parents and I believe Cindy had had it. That embezzlement is far, far more egregious than even asking for money for Puerto Rico.

I agree with the part I bolded above. And would add not only were they cramping her style, they were hectoring her about changing her lifestyle and being more responsible. Further I add the thought that I have been propounding for, it seems, a long, long time: PLUS she took from Cindy that which Cindy loved so very much and she did it to SPITE HER MOTHER.

IMO, Casey's motive was two-fold: a desire to be independent and to spite her mother. Murdering Caylee accomplished both.

IMO, the embezzlement wasn't something new--Cindy had already known about it, and Grandma Shirley was not happy on Father's Day when Cindy hadn't "done anything about" Casey's "problem" of stealing. Grandma Shirley had said in her statement to Yuri that she chose not to press charges, so I guess maybe Cindy had promised to take care of Casey herself?

Anyway, I'm betting that, if there was an arguement, which Cindy says did not occur--and who ARE you going to believe? Cindy? Casey? Or, none of the above---that the arguement probably included the stealing from Grandpa's account, and whether or not she worked (and I'm betting Cindy already knew Casey did not work) and her partying and her lack of responsibility towards Caylee. Even if Casey took her with her to parties and such, knew where she was--it was NOT responsible parenting in anyone's books. Besides Casey, of course.

Grandma Shirley said in her interview w/Yuri--Grandma thinks Casey hates her mom more than she loves Caylee. So, your last sentence about doing this to spite Cindy probably is pretty much spot on.

[Scampi]

Well buffalo chips what was I thinking!?! :punch: Of course the defense team is not looking for the truth. They will not use anything from a psych that would shine negatively on their client. Sorry. Need more coffee.

I have no idea...Casey was temporarily insane? Casey suffered from PPD? Someone else did it? Someone in the family did it and Casey has been protecting them?

I don't think she will go with any of Cindy's scenarios she provided to LE. :tonguewag:

jmo

Ah yes, we must always remember the quote by that defender of wife killers, Alan Dershowitz:


The defendant wants to hide the truth because he's generally guilty. The defense attorney's job is to make sure the jury does not arrive at that truth.

I am anxiously awaiting Lyon's motion regarding the death penalty, it will tip us off as to what route she's taking, imo.

[desmom]

Ah yes, we must always remember the quote by that defender of wife killers, Alan Dershowitz:


The defendant wants to hide the truth because he's generally guilty. The defense attorney's job is to make sure the jury does not arrive at that truth.

I am anxiously awaiting Lyon's motion regarding the death penalty, it will tip us off as to what route she's taking, imo.

Will Lyon wait till closer to trial time to file her motion?

Lyon is going to have a tough job explaining the stain in the trunk, the hair showing signs of decomp found in the trunk that lab results showed belonged to Casey or Caylee, the odor in the trunk, the duct tape with the Henkel emblem that is very similar to the duct tape with the Henkel emblem on the Anthony gas can, the laundry bag with the remains matching the one at the house......

Off the top of my head I can't see how the defense is going to be able to explain SODDI unless they are going to throw someone from the A house under the bus. :shrug:

jmo

[Unleashed]

and what are you going to say....."I am a member of a message board and an anonymous member says she knows someone who knows someone that has said things that may or may not be true...."

you really know how to warm up to people.....:thumbdown:

VERY well said, ITA! :thumbsup:

jmo

[AnnieBell]

Now that Lyon is on the team George and Cindy should be very worried because Lyon has shown the willingness to send someone other than her client to prison. Wonder if this is what Baez's is hoping?

[trich]

I have been wondering and asking the question for ages it seems:
Just how long can the defense put this trial off?
I mean surely there is something in the law that says "enough is enough you have had plenty of time to come up with a defense".
If the prosecution says they are ready in Oct can the defense say
they aren't and the judge keeps allowing that?

Also every time there is a hearing requested by the defense do they have to pay the court system a fee or anything like that?

[ellegna]

Des, you think any expert hired by this defense team is actually looking for "the truth?" I don't, they are looking for any smoke, mirror or insinuation that will help free this babykiller.

BTW Des, what defense do you believe Lyon is going to go with?

Good morning :seeya:

I think Lyon is going to go after Cindy.
Lee made a reference to something Casey told him Cindy told her.

She offered up to me for the first time that uhm, my mother has referred, said to my sister that uhm, even though Caylee's been the best thing and the best mistake that she was indeed a mistake. That she was Casey's mistake

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:M5OdjFCkyKkJ:www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/01%2520Lee%2520Anthony%2520July%252029,%25202008.p df+lee+anthony+interview+july+29+2008&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk


If Cindy continually told Casey she was an unfit mother and Caylee was a mistake, maybe Lyon will try to prove Cindy's constant attempt to control and belittle Casey caused her to snap. It was during this state of mind Casey made the decision she had to eliminate "the mistake"

[Scampi]

Will Lyon wait till closer to trial time to file her motion?

Lyon is going to have a tough job explaining the stain in the trunk, the hair showing signs of decomp found in the trunk that lab results showed belonged to Casey or Caylee, the odor in the trunk, the duct tape with the Henkel emblem that is very similar to the duct tape with the Henkel emblem on the Anthony gas can, the laundry bag with the remains matching the one at the house......

Off the top of my head I can't see how the defense is going to be able to explain SODDI unless they are going to throw someone from the A house under the bus. :shrug:

jmo


Add in that I think they can match the gargage bags to the lot that came from the anthony home. I don't see how they can escape from the fact that someone from that home did it either.

But don't fear, with this million dollar defense team, I'm sure they will be extremely creative and pull out all the stops for this babykiller.

I think we'll get Lyon's DP motion soon.

[AnnieBell]

If the funding for Caseys defense dried up would the sub-team be motiviated to get rid of this case?

[Scampi]

Good morning :seeya:

I think Lyon is going to go after Cindy.
Lee made a reference to something Casey told him Cindy told her.

She offered up to me for the first time that uhm, my mother has referred, said to my sister that uhm, even though Caylee's been the best thing and the best mistake that she was indeed a mistake. That she was Casey's mistake

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:M5OdjFCkyKkJ:www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/01%2520Lee%2520Anthony%2520July%252029,%25202008.p df+lee+anthony+interview+july+29+2008&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk


If Cindy continually told Casey she was an unfit mother and Caylee was a mistake, maybe Lyon will try to prove Cindy's constant attempt to control and belittle Casey caused her to snap. It was during this state of mind Casey made the decision she had to eliminate "the mistake"





"Oh Canada!" :seeya:

I think so too, cindy is the number one target.

[ellegna]

IMO KC placed the tape after death. When Caylee started to decompose, maybe fluids were leaking through her mouth. KC taped her mouth shut to avoid any more leakage.
I hope this was the case

I forget which expert said this on NG. (Koby or Perper)
They said they believed the tape was placed on Caylee premortem. They stated duct tape will not adhere to skin once the body begins to decompose.

[Unleashed]

Regarding them going back to work. I watched one of those nightly entertainment shows the other night. They were talking about John Travolta, how he went back to work, but didn't want to do the red carpet or any of the parties or press junkets because he stiil wasn't ready after the death of his son. All I could think of was how george and cindy refuse to go back to work but love nothing more than a press junket or a meet and greet or even a day drag racing.
What's wrong with this picture?

There is a huge difference between the two. John Travolta is grieving, the A's are denying, lying and covering.

JMO

[ellegna]

She probably came back the next day after George and Cindy left to gather up what she needed to conceal the body in., bags, duct tape, etc.

I agree. That's why, IMO, Casey made the flurry of calls. It wasn't a cry for help but an assurance everyone was at work and she had ample of time.

[5boxersmom]

This is very telling.
If Cindy said this she said it without thinking first. This could be the reason why Cindy kept saying where is Caylee. "Take me to her."
The only question would be, did Casey tell her mother a different story after she murdered Caylee. She couldn't blame her disappearance on the babysitter because she told her mother when she got to TonE's that Caylee was sleeping at the babysitters house.
Why this was not brought up puzzles me. It is VERY telling.
Cindy knows a lot more then she is sharing.
Good reason for throwing Cindy under the bus. No wonder Cindy is vigorously defending Casey. She's just as big of a liar as Casey is. If LE knew she was aware in the beginning that Caylee was (allegedly) missing and she went along with Casey and said Nothing??:ohmy:
jmo


Good morning everyone. :biggrin:

Yes it has bugged me too. Then you have Cindy's myspace post from July 3rd.

imo

[haveaniceday]

I forget which expert said this on NG. (Koby or Perper)
They said they believed the tape was placed on Caylee premortem. They stated duct tape will not adhere to skin once the body begins to decompose.


Thank you.
I was holding out hope that this wouldn't be the case.
KC is one very evil person

[~Dramatica~]

Snazzy, I agree.

I'm going to be making a few phone calls this afternoon to Florida officials, that's for sure.

Before you waste a lot of your time, I would suggest you read the posts first and you will see there is not any inside information, only speculation. It's nice to see such a sunny disposition on Father's Day. :sneaky:

[farrahrani]

I agree. That's why, IMO, Casey made the flurry of calls. It wasn't a cry for help but an assurance everyone was at work and she had ample of time.


Wow. That's a great observation.

I had totally forgotten as a teenager when skipping school, me and my friends would call each other's houses repeatedly to make sure there were no adults home. That totally fits in with her personality, a guilty kid needing to make sure the house is empty. :angry:

[AMS]

Snazzy, I agree.

I'm going to be making a few phone calls this afternoon to Florida officials, that's for sure.

:thumbdown:

I'd go back and read. I don't see any insider info provided.

imo

[Amy]

And the wording of their handwritten statements are very odd.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3868229/guide-to-casey-anthony-documents-orlando-sentinel

Lee - page 33 - She claimed she's been searching for Caylee herself and had other people helping her.

WTH is up with "she claimed"? Was Lee questioning Casey's story?

Cindy's statement on page 35 and does not mention the "nanny" one time. Why wouldn't Cindy tell LE about all the times Casey told her Caylee was with the nanny?

George's statement page 37 - ....and told me that Caylee Marie (our granddaughter) was missing, taken a month ago, by a person by the name of Zany.

He did not say taken by her babysitter or nanny, but "a person by the name of Zany". What is up with that? Wouldn't you think George being former LE he would realize how important it would be to the investigation to write "by her babysitter/nanny named Zany"?

jmo

Casey says ZF-G called her June 12, wonder where she got that date? Did she just remember that it was 3 days later, and since she had said Caylee was taken the ninth, that made the call being on the 12th, going on the June 9 timeline.

I think it rather odd that she could only remember leaving the A's house "between 9am and 1pm" on the 9th---good grief, that is a 4 hour span!!!! One would certainly think she could be a little more specific, even if something horrible hadn't happened that day. Did she leave and go directly to nanny's? That would be easy, she left between say, 12 and 1pm. Or, if they left earlier and went to Publix or somewhere, was that an hour earlier than she needed to leave Caylee off? 4 hours--perhaps, if they left by 9am, they stopped @ Caylee's favorite place, JBP, to play for a bit before Casey went to work. It just seems, if they left by 9ish, that she would say, we went here and there, did this and that before I dropped her off. I am sure, the last moments w/her daughter would be clear in her mind. Especially 31 days later, surely she has gone over and over that in her mind. Oh, my bad. I don't suppose she tho't much about it at all, what with going to Fusion and Target and places.

She says she got no information from ZF-G in that call. She also has not written a thing about fearing for the rest of the family's lives, the threats to harm them, or even the script. Just, ZF-G did call on the 12. None of the threat or script stuff has come up in her written statement. I would sure think something like that would be important.

I notice, in George's written statement, he makes no mention of the description of the clothing Caylee was wearing the last time he saw her. It is interesting that both Casey and George (altho his is @ a later time) DO come up w/the pink shirt. I'd still like to know where they all came up with June 8 (and June 9 for George and Casey) being the last time they saw Caylee. I would think that, by the first week or so, they would have THE DATE they last saw Caylee emblazoned in their memories. Or, that they would have said to LE, it was Father's Day. They don't even say, June 8, Father's Day--and the dates could be sorted out then. And, when did they all talk before writing their statements for George to come up w/June 9?

[desmom]

This is very telling.
If Cindy said this she said it without thinking first. This could be the reason why Cindy kept saying where is Caylee. "Take me to her."
The only question would be, did Casey tell her mother a different story after she murdered Caylee. She couldn't blame her disappearance on the babysitter because she told her mother when she got to TonE's that Caylee was sleeping at the babysitters house.
Why this was not brought up puzzles me. It is VERY telling.
Cindy knows a lot more then she is sharing.
Good reason for throwing Cindy under the bus. No wonder Cindy is vigorously defending Casey. She's just as big of a liar as Casey is. If LE knew she was aware in the beginning that Caylee was (allegedly) missing and she went along with Casey and said Nothing??:ohmy:
jmo

bolding mine - I agree Cindy knows a lot more than she is telling....

Lee told LE during his interview dated 7/29 page 12 http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0923/17540065.pdf

....the door wasn't shut or anything, but she comes into the room, sees that my sister was crying, and she said, and actually the first thing that she asked her, she says, "What have you done?"

jmo

[Amy]

i don't think i'm the only nurse who has her own stethoscope at home... by 7 months gestation, even listening with a regular stethoscope should pick up some fetal heart sounds. if casey had been my daughter (shudder!) and was telling me that she just had some sort of female problem with her abdomen as big as it was at rick's wedding, i would have whipped out my stethoscope... because with her size, i would suspect either she was pregnant or she had a tumor

http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,9851,00.html
Listening for the heartbeat without amplification
Starting at about 20 weeks, the heartbeat can be heard without Doppler amplification. A special stethoscope called a fetoscope can be used, or the bell (concave) side of a regular stethoscope can be pressed firmly onto your abdomen. The heartbeat is best heard over the baby's back, which often seems firm when you feel around on the uterus.

Ah, but you know how unconfrontational that Cindy is!!! In one of her taped interviews, she says she suspected Casey might be pregnant, but that she was waiting for Casey to come to her. Sure, Cindy, I'm betting Casey was really looking forward to have to tell you she is pregnant. I think (from Uncle Rick's saying that Casey wanted to put the baby up for adoption) that Casey would NEVER had said anything, but would have gone somewhere to have the baby and give her up. Altho Casey was a little naive to think no one could tell she was pregnant, and to think that Cindy would never confront her about it.

[Unleashed]

Ah, but you know how unconfrontational that Cindy is!!! In one of her taped interviews, she says she suspected Casey might be pregnant, but that she was waiting for Casey to come to her. Sure, Cindy, I'm betting Casey was really looking forward to have to tell you she is pregnant. I think (from Uncle Rick's saying that Casey wanted to put the baby up for adoption) that Casey would NEVER had said anything, but would have gone somewhere to have the baby and give her up. Altho Casey was a little naive to think no one could tell she was pregnant, and to think that Cindy would never confront her about it.

Does anyone know when Cindy actually acknowledged the pregnancy?

TIA

[trich]

Will Lyon wait till closer to trial time to file her motion?

Lyon is going to have a tough job explaining the stain in the trunk, the hair showing signs of decomp found in the trunk that lab results showed belonged to Casey or Caylee, the odor in the trunk, the duct tape with the Henkel emblem that is very similar to the duct tape with the Henkel emblem on the Anthony gas can, the laundry bag with the remains matching the one at the house......

Off the top of my head I can't see how the defense is going to be able to explain SODDI unless they are going to throw someone from the A house under the bus. :shrug:

jmo

Let's not forget the Grave Wax found on some towels that
were amongst the things found in the trunk of the car.

IMO the ony way the defense can go is to try and blame this
on someone else that supposedly had the key to the house and
to the car.
The Anthonys have already insinuated that someone else had the keys...originally Cindy was saying Zenaida had it by asking Casey in a round about way. but I am sure they will drop that and now say Jessie, Amy, TonE also had keys.
But I don't for a minute think anyone in their right mind is going to believe it.

[5boxersmom]

Why does George write Zany? He even made it a point during his depo to correct Mr. Morgan saying it is spelled Z A N Y. Not Zanny.

Well doesn't Zany mean crazy? Zany?

Zanny which rhymes with Nanny is how Cindy pronounces the name.

jmo

[ellegna]

Before you waste a lot of your time, I would suggest you read the posts first and you will see there is not any inside information, only speculation. It's nice to see such a sunny disposition on Father's Day. :sneaky:

Aw come on. Let them call FL officials. They will come here and read all of our excellent theories and discover what great sleuths we are.
Who knows? We may even provide LE a motive :tonguewag:

[Unleashed]

Yeah, Cindy sure had a lengthy conference with Ironside there but the camera angle did not show her best side.

:laugh::tonguewag: Ironside.

jmo

[kOOkie1]

Does anyone know when Cindy actually acknowledged the pregnancy?

TIA

Good Question..Didnt Cindy have a Sonogram pic on the wall in Caylee or Casey's room?
I think Cindy and Casey are alot alike..they deny and deny till the last minute or till they are called out on it.
It's just hard to believe she would not have known Casey was pregnant..i think she wanted everyone else to think she didnt know:bored:

Happy Father's Day

[Scampi]

I wonder if either anthony can get stop wallowing in self pity long enough to visit their elderly fathers today?

[CelticDawn]

I wonder if either anthony can get stop wallowing in self pity long enough to visit their elderly fathers today?

I think the BEST gift either of those two could give their fathers would be to STAY AWAY from them!

[MissElainyS]

If Caylee died as a result of an assault, i.e. taping her face or administering a drug, it is still murder if it happened during the commission of felony child abuse.

I don't think it was an assault in the sense that she was trying to shut Caylee up without intending to kill her. I think Casey killed Caylee outright, with premeditation and knew full well what she was doing and why. You don't go wrapping a person's head up with duct tape, covering the nose and mouth and then expect to subdue. You do that with the expectation to kill. That's how I see it.

[MissElainyS]

Good Question..Didnt Cindy have a Sonogram pic on the wall in Caylee or Casey's room?
I think Cindy and Casey are alot alike..they deny and deny till the last minute or till they are called out on it.
It's just hard to believe she would not have known Casey was pregnant..i think she wanted everyone else to think she didnt know:bored:

Happy Father's Day

And basically both of them ended up doing the same thing. Casey kept going until she literally ran out of hallway. Cindy kept up the ruse until she literally ran out of gestation time.

[ellegna]

Why does George write Zany? He even made it a point during his depo to correct Mr. Morgan saying it is spelled Z A N Y. Not Zanny.

Well doesn't Zany mean crazy? Zany?

Zanny which rhymes with Nanny is how Cindy pronounces the name.

jmo


George also made a point to correct the pronunciation too.
While I listened to George's depo I had a THEY GOT YOU moment.
I forget who interviewed George but they said Zenny. George became quite upset.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r129/wegworker/Zenny.jpg
I truly believe the name Zenny was stated on purpose because in the Spanish community, the nickname for Zenaida is ZENNY not Zanny.
M&M theory probably was if Casey knew this person for a couple of years, at one point or another her Spanish nanny would have corrected Casey mispronouncing her name.

BTW...My mother's Spanish caregiver corrected my mispronunciation months before the depo.

[jammies]

I think you may be on to something. Has anyone seen any documents pertaining to Mallory Parker, his girlfriend? Curious because in that last dump of docs.. there was an interview with a man who had talked to a waitress who worked with Mallory who stated that Mallory had made comments about this case early on in the case. Don't forget both Mallory and Jodi are listed as board members of the Anthony foundation.


Hi Annie. I think our poster "really" has seen his car in the last few weeks in and out of the A's house.

[Amy]

I believe that Andrea Lyon will do her very best to have a forensic psychiatrist do a complete workup of this family, in her effort to "excuse and mitigate" the OC's evil deeds. cindy will just love it.

Which might come in useful in the sentencing phase, but don't think it would come up in the guilt phase.

There was a fellow who killed his first wife and kids, and his 3rd wife. Wife #2 committed suicide--she married him again after wife #3 died. In order to get him to admit to the murders, a profiler was sent in, telling him they were wanting to research the mental workings of serial killers. That man was so full of himself, tho't of himself as unique and superior to everyone else....and was more than happy to dialog w/the profiler. Don't know what much was "found" about the mental issue, except he was definitely self-centered, no one really mattered except himself.

Wonder what happens when everyone in the same family thinks the world revolves around them, and any purpose of others in this world is only of significance in what those people can do for him?

[jammies]

I have been wondering and asking the question for ages it seems:
Just how long can the defense put this trial off?
I mean surely there is something in the law that says "enough is enough you have had plenty of time to come up with a defense".
If the prosecution says they are ready in Oct can the defense say
they aren't and the judge keeps allowing that?

Also every time there is a hearing requested by the defense do they have to pay the court system a fee or anything like that?


Glad you brought this up, trich. It's something I wonder about also. How much time does the judge give the defense?

[ConchGirl]

Good Question..Didnt Cindy have a Sonogram pic on the wall in Caylee or Casey's room?
I think Cindy and Casey are alot alike..they deny and deny till the last minute or till they are called out on it.
It's just hard to believe she would not have known Casey was pregnant..i think she wanted everyone else to think she didnt know:bored:

Happy Father's Day

I've been giving a lot of thought to the pregnancy issue. According to Casey's employment records it doesn't appear that she had enough of hours to get health benefits. Cindy would not be able to cover her on her plan because Casey was not in school. I don't think Casey had any prenatal care until 7 or 8 months into the pregnancy. When my crackhead SIL came to live with us at 7 months we had a difficult time to find a doctor that would take her because she had no prenatal care. We had to pay cash up front to the only oby/gyn who would take her. Cindy stated in one of her interviews that she did not pay for the delivery. Something just does not add up. jmo

[Unleashed]

Which might come in useful in the sentencing phase, but don't think it would come up in the guilt phase.

There was a fellow who killed his first wife and kids, and his 3rd wife. Wife #2 committed suicide--she married him again after wife #3 died. In order to get him to admit to the murders, a profiler was sent in, telling him they were wanting to research the mental workings of serial killers. That man was so full of himself, tho't of himself as unique and superior to everyone else....and was more than happy to dialog w/the profiler. Don't know what much was "found" about the mental issue, except he was definitely self-centered, no one really mattered except himself.

Wonder what happens when everyone in the same family thinks the world revolves around them, and any purpose of others in this world is only of significance in what those people can do for him?
my bold

Tragically, a child is murdered, and no-one takes responsibility.
That's what happens. :cursing:

JMO

[desmom]

Why does George write Zany? He even made it a point during his depo to correct Mr. Morgan saying it is spelled Z A N Y. Not Zanny.

Well doesn't Zany mean crazy? Zany?

Zanny which rhymes with Nanny is how Cindy pronounces the name.

jmo

I find it odd that in Casey's handwritten statement to LE (page 29) http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3868229/guide-to-casey-anthony-documents-orlando-sentinel and in her interview at home on 6/16 (page 70 same link) she wrote or said "Zenaida". I did not see any Zannys or Zanys in either.

Out of the 67 pages of the interview at Universal on 6/16 (page 85), she only used the word Zanny/Zany twice.

In the handwritten statement, maybe Casey was trying to be professional and use the nanny's legal name.

I would think since they have been friends for over 4 years (or was it 6 years), Casey would have used the name she was used to calling the nanny - Zanny during the oral interview!

Oh...wait there is no nanny, Zany, Zanny.

jmo

[5boxersmom]

George also made a point to correct the pronunciation too.
While I listened to George's depo I had a THEY GOT YOU moment.
I forget who interviewed George but they said Zenny. George became quite upset.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r129/wegworker/Zenny.jpg
I truly believe the name Zenny was stated on purpose because in the Spanish community, the nickname for Zenaida is ZENNY not Zanny.
M&M theory probably was if Casey knew this person for a couple of years, at one point or another her Spanish nanny would have corrected Casey mispronouncing her name.

BTW...My mother's Spanish caregiver corrected my mispronunciation months before the depo.

I also remember a text from Casey to someone and she wrote Zany. It might have been to the cop that got fired.

jmo

[jammies]

"Oh Canada!" :seeya:

I think so too, cindy is the number one target.


Hey there, scamp. Wouldn't they have to put Casey on the stand if they were to point the fickle finger of fate at Cindy? Wouldn't anything Lee or anyone else repeats from Casey be heresay?

[sammy62]

My thoughts for what they are worth:

I believe that casey was premeditating killing George and Cindy...hence the computer searches. I think she was going to get rid of Caylee after the other two. Then the house was hers, and she was free and clear to party..

I don't believe anyone else killed Caylee. Casey is too selfish to be sitting in jail a year to cover for her mom or dad.

I still don't believe Cindy knew about Caylee's murder. I feel her 911 calls are sincere. (but my middle name is Pollyanna).

I think Mallory knows more than we know. Why hasn't her interview been made public. They certainly would have interviewed her.

I can tolerate watching Cindy...better than George. There is something wrong with George. His fake sobs Friday, and carrying around Caylee's picture. Why would anyone come to court carrying her picture. I loved watching the Judge totally ignore George during his whining.

I think Casey meant to kill Caylee eventually. But I think she did it that night totally out of anger and revenge.

What I don't understand is that Casey is so dumb to come up with a story....having 31 days, that didn't have more substance.

well....MOO :cursing:

[summer4meplz]

I think the BEST gift either of those two could give their fathers would be to STAY AWAY from them!

I don't recall any mention of lee and/or casey celebrating FD with george last year....

[jammies]

Good Question..Didnt Cindy have a Sonogram pic on the wall in Caylee or Casey's room?
I think Cindy and Casey are alot alike..they deny and deny till the last minute or till they are called out on it.
It's just hard to believe she would not have known Casey was pregnant..i think she wanted everyone else to think she didnt know:bored:

Happy Father's Day


zactly, kookie. They all lie. How are we to believe that Cindy MADE her keep the baby? Anything out of their mouths is suspect for me.

Casey would say ANYTHING to make her mother look bad and feel sorry for HER (casey). Casey's friends just repeat whatever bs she came up with. Instead of telling the truth about her pregnancy (the circumstances, father) she whines to her friends that her mean mommie is going to make her keep Caylee.

It MAY be true but in this family we will NEVER EVER know.

[haveaniceday]

My thoughts for what they are worth:

I believe that casey was premeditating killing George and Cindy...hence the computer searches. I think she was going to get rid of Caylee after the other two. Then the house was hers, and she was free and clear to party..

I don't believe anyone else killed Caylee. Casey is too selfish to be sitting in jail a year to cover for her mom or dad.

I still don't believe Cindy knew about Caylee's murder. I feel her 911 calls are sincere. (but my middle name is Pollyanna).

I think Mallory knows more than we know. Why hasn't her interview been made public. They certainly would have interviewed her.

I can tolerate watching Cindy...better than George. There is something wrong with George. His fake sobs Friday, and carrying around Caylee's picture. Why would anyone come to court carrying her picture. I loved watching the Judge totally ignore George during his whining.

I think Casey meant to kill Caylee eventually. But I think she did it that night totally out of anger and revenge.

What I don't understand is that Casey is so dumb to come up with a story....having 31 days, that didn't have more substance.

well....MOO :cursing:


I think the 31 days came about because CA said "I gave you thirty days".
Casey for some reason was going with the June 8th day. She is not smart enough to count out the days from 7/15 to 6/8.
She said 31 days because her mother said 30 days IMO

[Amy]

*********************************************

I too, do pity them somewhat. After all, however inexcusable their lies and attempts to cover up their daughters deeds, they must find it to be dreadful to awaken each morning and face a new day, that cloud following them each day, the dark, foreboding truth that they can never escape, Caylee is gone, Casey is forever lost to them, and somehow they must go on.
Work? I can't see how thay can possibly find going back to work at this time the right thing to do. They will be subjected to ridicule, criticizm, opinions, questions, judgements....life as they knew it ended a year ago, and perhaps they want to be advocates for missing children simply because it's more familiar to them, and people who have undergone the similar circumstances make them feel more at ease, around those who know what they have endured.
jmo

Most people have to get back to work because there are bills to be paid. It seems most people who have lost a child/grandchild even to murder had to go back to work. Of course, "most people" haven't put their mugs on tv in a negative way the number of times the A's have, so they probably do garner more sympathy and empathy and less ridicule than the A's do. And, I guess "most people" haven't used the death of their daughter/granddaughter to garner enough money to NOT have to work.

There aren't many people who have undergone the similar circumstance that they can relate to. @ least, not the 31 days, the "script" instead of ransom note. And the acting out on national tv. I haven't seen any shows where the parents act as they do. Maybe, when they do get around to helping out people with missing children, they will coach them to act in the ways they did? They have been to Sutsuma once (well, George did, and was asked to leave) and went to one vigil? Or, is it two now, vigils for missing children. They haven't even taken the darn boat out to help look for missing children. I haven't seen pics of George pulling billboards with faces and names of missing children for months now. (Sure hope the phone listed is connected now, or a new # painted on the darn thing.) I guess, maybe they think their interviews on GMA and TODAY and LKL are helpful to people whose children/grandchildren have gone missing?

[crimeq]

I believe that too. No amount of money is going to ease their troubled black souls.

"I've been rich and I've been poor, and rich is better." -- Sophie Tucker

The money may not ease their troubled souls, but it will ease their life and I despise that they are making their way off Caylee's demise -- a horrible demise at the hands of her own mother.

[Kokopelli]

:laugh::tonguewag: Ironside.

jmo

Once I had a date with Ironside but I stood him up. :laugh:

[summer]

Does anyone know when Cindy actually acknowledged the pregnancy?

TIA

Here's my thought. Cindy knew when Casey knew, probably within the first three months. They spent the next several months arguing, negotiating, scheming... what to do... what to do.

Cindy and Casey could have together come up with the idea of telling Jesse the baby was his.

That fell through when Richard Grund insisted his son do a paternity test. They were outed so no reason for Casey to stay with Jesse anymore - she didn't want to in the first place.

Back to scheming, planning. Then comes the wedding. Well, for appearances sake they have to go as a family. What would it look like if Casey wasn't there? Or maybe Casey herself pleaded to go - she wanted a vacation too - she never got to go anywhere boo hoo - she could houdini-like hide her belly the same way she could walk cops down a hallway all the way to the door of a non-existent job.

OK then. It's a deal. Cindy and Casey have a united front. Casey is NOT pregnant and if any dope in the family says anything that's the story. Who cares what they think anyway?

Back to the ranch. Cindy tells Casey if she keeps the baby her life won't change. She will have help. Not just regular help but the gold-standard of help. Ok so she lied. Big whoop.

Casey agrees to keep the baby.

A few months after the birth Cindy bails on her promises and starts harrassing the hell out of Casey.

Casey is now totally and irrefutably stuck, trapped -- and she becomes more and more enraged. What can she do? She doesn't have the tools to live on her own. She sees a life of nothing but her and Caylee and Cindy and George holed up in that house for years to come.

She hates her mother. She hates her daughter. She hates her life.

The end.

Justathought.

[Steps]

I agree. That's why, IMO, Casey made the flurry of calls. It wasn't a cry for help but an assurance everyone was at work and she had ample of time.

First of all I would like to say that I am an occasional poster, but an all time reader. I am continuely amazed at how many really smart posters are contributing to this board. I have had something in my mind for sometime. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but at one time I seem to recall it coming out in discovery that no fingerprints for George, Cindy, or Lee were found on the duct tape. I don't believe they included OC. Could it be possible that with several layers over Caylee that they might have found a print from Casey? That would surely be a "smoking gun"!

[AnnieBell]

I don't recall any mention of lee and/or casey celebrating FD with george last year....

IIRC Cindy took Caylee with her to the nursing home because George was working that day and Casey didn't show up until later in the evening b/c Cindy stated getting Caylee out of the pool and fixing dinner. Haven't came across anything about where Lee was but MPO Lee didn't care much about being around the family. In the documents both G&C describe the strained relationship George had with both of his kids.

[ellegna]

Hey there, scamp. Wouldn't they have to put Casey on the stand if they were to point the fickle finger of fate at Cindy? Wouldn't anything Lee or anyone else repeats from Casey be heresay?

Not Scamp but thought this may help. Lapis answered that a few days back. It's admissible

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13200208#post13200208

[Kokopelli]

:confused: What the heck does "if you bare posting" mean? And who are you lecturing? And why? You can't seriously think that anything posted here will jeopardize this case, can you? :laugh:
:sad: I have heard of being bare tied to a post but never bare posting?
Happy Fathers Day all you daddies out there.

[crimeq]

IMO, G & C have had a lot of hindsight 20/20 type conversations...we should have or if we would have.

G & C returning to work IMO would be very good for them. I think they are probably checking message boards, news outlets and blogs everyday to see what is being said about them or Casey. This is not going to help the healing process but add more to their pain.

G & C being advocates for missing children IMO is an oxymoron. I am sorry, but their behavior, lies and accusations in the media are not the type of people I would want assisting me or my family if we had a child go missing.

jmo


Haleigh's father didn't want them assisting their family, and they ARE in that situation! "Nuff said for me.

[Amy]

I have been wondering and asking the question for ages it seems:
Just how long can the defense put this trial off?
I mean surely there is something in the law that says "enough is enough you have had plenty of time to come up with a defense".
If the prosecution says they are ready in Oct can the defense say
they aren't and the judge keeps allowing that?

Also every time there is a hearing requested by the defense do they have to pay the court system a fee or anything like that?

Either side can ask for continuances as much as they want. The judge doesn't have to allow any @ all. But, most do--for a while. I don't know @ what point they will be denied further delays.

[summer]

Maybe as a nurse Cindy provided the pre-natal care if there wasn't any insurance. Or maybe if there was insurance use it for the birth and skip the pre-natal co-pay.

I do think Cindy would've insisted on pre-natal attention if she knew Casey was pregnant.

[Unleashed]

Once I had a date with Ironside but I stood him up. :laugh:

:lol::lol:

You are deeply warped. I love that in a poster!

jmo

[Kokopelli]

:lol::lol:

You are deeply warped. I love that in a poster!

jmo

I've luv'ed u guys for long time now :thumbup:

[Unleashed]

:sad: I have heard of being bare tied to a post but never bare posting?
Happy Fathers Day all you daddies out there.

Ditto!
Miss you, dad. :rose:

Now everybody get their clothes back on and keep posting :scared:


JMO