Friday, June 19, 2009 #1

[cassidy]

With the discussion of the car again, I am wondering where that car is now. I can't remember if LE ever returned it to the Anthony family or if they are holding it as evidence.

Knowing now what we know about that trunk I can not imagine anyone wanting to keep that car. I wouldn't.

I believe it is being held as evidence for the tiral.

[trich]

Does that depend on temp and other conditions?

If you read the definition I posted .....it says it can last on a body for 100 years.
It is resistant to bacteria and can protect a body.

[Lavinia]

I think it was either 6/24 the day george caught her at the house and attempted to go to the trunk, or 6/27 the day she abandoned the car at Amscot and told Amy she had scrapped off the dead thing on the frame of the car, that she put Caylee's body in that swamp.

I do too, Scamp.

[Daffny]

Where does it say gravewax was found? In her car? Where were the papertowels?

I'm confused - TIA.

[summer]

On days like today, when the Anthony's show such visible anger to the world, I wonder if they ever pause for a moment and wonder who they should be truly angry with? I wonder if they go back to that little sad house on HopeSpring Dr and hear faint echoes of a little girl's laughter and look in the mirror and place some of the blame on themselves. I wonder if they wish they could turn the clock back and make Casey accountable for all of the lies she told them before she hit them with the biggest lie of all. I wonder if they wonder if they will ever again find peace in their lives. I wonder if they will ever be able to put the blame for Caylee not being with them where the blame belongs.

JMO

I think I remember Haleigh's dad couldn't even sleep in his place for a while after she went missing. He camped outside or something. Some people might call that extreme but at least he wasn't eating crab puffs with media reps. These people are inappropriate. Pods. Made of stone. IMO.

[HouseOfClark]

IIRC didn't Casey buy large package of paper towel at Target? I wonder if they match up with the same brand of paper towel from the trunk( if LE) looked into that as evidence.


I think she did.

Good question!

What were the Target shopping dates again?

[summer]

I don't recall anyone telling anyone they're not entitled to their opinion here today. Guess I missed something. :confused:

[Tracian]

Grave wax, or adipocere, is a crumbly white, waxy substance that accumulates on those parts of the body that contain fat - the cheeks, breasts, abdomen and buttocks. It is the product of a chemical reaction in which fats react with water and hydrogen in the presence of bacterial enzymes, breaking down into fatty acids and soaps. Adipocere is resistant to bacteria and can protect a corpse, slowing further decomposition. Adipocere starts to form within a month after death and has been recorded on bodies that have been exhumed after 100 years. If a body is readily accessible to insects, adipocere is unlikely to form.


Adipocere or grave wax or mortuary wax is a water-insoluble material consisting mostly of saturated fatty acidFatty acid
In chemistry, especially biochemistry, a fatty acid is a carboxylic acid often with a long unbranched aliphatic tail , which is either saturation or Unsaturated compound....
s. It is formed by the slow hydrolysisHydrolysis
Hydrolysis is a chemical reaction during which one or more water are split into hydrogen and hydroxide ions which may go on to participate in further reactions....
of fats in decomposing material such as a human cadaverCadaver
A cadaver is a dead human body.Cadaver may also refer to:* Cadaver tomb, tomb featuring an effigy in the form of a decomposing body* Cadaver , a video game...
by action of anaerobic bacteriaBacteria
The Bacteria are a large group of unicellular microorganisms. Typically a few micrometres in length, bacteria have a wide range of shapes, ranging from spheres to rods and spirals....
. The transformation of fats into adipocere occurs best in the absence of oxygen in cold and humid environment, such as in wet ground or mud at the bottom of a lake or a sealed cask, and it can occur with both embalmed and untreated bodies. Corpses of infants and overweight persons are particularly prone to adipocere transformation. Adipocere formation begins within a month of death, and in the absence of air it can persist for centuries. An exposed, infested body or a body in a warm environment is unlikely to form deposits of adipocere.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Adipocere



Bolding:

Caylee's age could have something to do with this process, though I wonder, a car trunk would be very warm...maybe Caylee was left in the back yard hidden for a while, that is why the process started.

I just can't shake that the dogs hit in that yard.

[ish]

Wow, I'm really wondering about the adipocere in the trunk.. How long WAS she in that trunk? :confused:

Hi Lavinia, she had to be kept in a cool area away from insects for the grave wax to form, so I don't think she was in the trunk the whole time. I do think when Brian Burner saw her car in the garage she was loading Caylee into the trunk or getting the laundry bag to help move the body.

[Sun]

From Dr. Utz's exam, page 11 -

"Attached to the hair and overlying the posterior mandible and maxilla are SEVERAL PIECES OF OVERLAPPING GRAY TAPE."

Seem the odious creature did an exemplary job of making sure Caylee's mouth was shut forever.

If I am reading this correctly, they failed to locate the hyoid bone, which could have revealed if Caylee was strangled.

..... and remember all of those skull pics found on Casey's computer.

Caylee was of an age to be talking and "tattling" on Casey. Caylee had spent time with Cindy on June 15th. ...seems like a good thing to speculate about.

[FallenAngel♥]

"Adipocere" man, that's a word from the past. Heard it for the first time during the Laci Peterson murder trial.

That LE found it on the paper towels from that trunk is huge, imo. This seals the deal that the dead body was in that trunk.

OMG i just got back..............the guys from Stanley Steamers just left grrrrrrrrr


OMG this is very damning evidence...Yep this seals the deal...She had her baby in the trunk :( and i bet George and Cindy already knew about all this.

[Motomom]

but george is such a liar..we don't know when he last saw her..

I think they now know exactly when that child died. I don't think he ever saw them and if he did, its doubtful his account of what she was wearing is correct. I'm sure they know now, when and where she was killed because of what she was found in. Wonder if on the night of the 15th she had on those shorts?

[norwood]

I believe it is being held as evidence for the tiral.

Thank you I couldn't remember

[TunaMelt]

If that's not a DEPRAVED mind, I don't know what is!!!

:huh:
Mine?

My mind isn't depraved.
:sad:

Not too much anyhow.
:wink:

[FallenAngel♥]

I think it was either 6/24 the day george caught her at the house and attempted to go to the trunk, or 6/27 the day she abandoned the car at Amscot and told Amy she had scrapped off the dead thing on the frame of the car, that she put Caylee's body in that swamp.

Yep i agree Scampi..........

[Lavinia]

Hi Lavinia, she had to be kept in a cool area away from insects for the grave wax to form, so I don't think she was in the trunk the whole time. I do think when Brian Burner saw her car in the garage she was loading Caylee into the trunk or getting the laundry bag to help move the body.

Yeah, I'm thinking this, too. Hmmm. Now my brain has to work and it hurts, lol.

[tmw]

Trying to catch up- Where does the report say anything about the heart sticker???

[Lavinia]

:huh:
Mine?

My mind isn't depraved.
:sad:

Not too much anyhow.
:wink:

No, goof! The person who would ride around with the *remains* of their daughter rattling around in the trunk. (You, too, maybe, just not like her, lol.)

[TunaMelt]

I think it was either 6/24 the day george caught her at the house and attempted to go to the trunk, or 6/27 the day she abandoned the car at Amscot and told Amy she had scrapped off the dead thing on the frame of the car, that she put Caylee's body in that swamp.

So: a week to a possible ten days?

In the trunk.

:ohmy:

[cuddlyrunner]

I grew up in Brixham, England (a small fishing town). Our crab is famous throughout England but I've never heard off crab puffs-what are they?

[margaritaville]

Sorry if this has been brought up..Too much to go through here:

No known medical history?!!

she had never been to the Doctor?????

am i reading that right?

It didn't say no known medical illnesses..it said history....

[kanzz]

I think it was either 6/24 the day george caught her at the house and attempted to go to the trunk, or 6/27 the day she abandoned the car at Amscot and told Amy she had scrapped off the dead thing on the frame of the car, that she put Caylee's body in that swamp.

ITA - one of those two dates. Part of me wants to go with 6/27 because it just seems to fit better. I can see her taking 3 days to figure out what she was going to do and to cook up the squirelly story.

[Postergeist]

On days like today, when the Anthony's show such visible anger to the world, I wonder if they ever pause for a moment and wonder who they should be truly angry with? I wonder if they go back to that little sad house on HopeSpring Dr and hear faint echoes of a little girl's laughter and look in the mirror and place some of the blame on themselves. I wonder if they wish they could turn the clock back and make Casey accountable for all of the lies she told them before she hit them with the biggest lie of all. I wonder if they wonder if they will ever again find peace in their lives. I wonder if they will ever be able to put the blame for Caylee not being with them where the blame belongs.

JMO

beautifully stated cassidy-

"hit them with the biggest lie of all"- :sad: how true and how profoundly sad that little Caylee wasn't even worthy enough to this entire family for any of them to be truthful.

After a year, I don't see them ever being able to shift the blame where it belongs- they started blaming others from the early beginning and continued- blaming the public and the media that if she is found dead it would be the fault of the media, too quick to get angry at Nancy, Greta, Lenny, Tim and local reporters, the leeches, maggots and yet Casey is still sweetheart, gorgeous, beautiful.

imo

[KittyMom]

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801867/detail.html

Page 3 of 13

"grayish colored tape was noted covering the mouth and nasal aperture areas"

This proves murder. She didn't mean for Caylee to take another breath.

[boo]

I have no idea why, other than some find the only way to deal with a sociopath is to go along with them. By watching the videos I'm under the impression Caylee got more love from Cindy than anyone from anyone else. My opinion, which I'm entitled to. I'm sure we'd all like to think we've never made mistakes that could have prevented such a horrible thing from happening. Nobody knows why Casey did this, we won't until the trial. I won't blame her parents for it, Casey killed her ....... they didn't.

I don't believe for a minute we will find out any truth at trial, including and especially, why Caylee was murdered. I think the lies will continue forever and ever and will be buried with the Anthonys.

[happy2bme]

I think it was either 6/24 the day george caught her at the house and attempted to go to the trunk, or 6/27 the day she abandoned the car at Amscot and told Amy she had scrapped off the dead thing on the frame of the car, that she put Caylee's body in that swamp.

Do we have cell phone pings on those dates to see if she was in the area where she dumped Caylee?

[spiritwolf46]

Is anyone able to see me?

Am on a different computer and my email doesn't see me. :(

Let me know!

I think that the judge did an awesome job today and loved when the State asked Geo how many times they went on talk shows and when was the last time after him saying that THEIR privacy was violated time after time!

[summer]

I grew up in Brixham, England (a small fishing town). Our crab is famous throughout England but I've never heard off crab puffs-what are they?

crab meat in puffed pastry i imagine. although i've never had one at the Ritz. :mad:

[desmom]

Something broke down (decomposed) and broke down but good to get adipocere on paper towels in the trunk, IMO. IMO, it was no couple/few days, but a week, at least.



IIRC, the trash was from Tone's apartment. Did Casey "visit" Caylee? Could the adipocere have been under Casey's fingernails? When did Tone say Casey was having nightmares about Caylee?

[Lavinia]

Sorry if this has been brought up..Too much to go through here:

No known medical history?!!

she had never been to the Doctor?????

am i reading that right?

It didn't say no known medical illnesses..it said history....

I have really been bouncing around on this as I've been trying to read between grocery shopping/putting/away, etc. but it seems I read that it said she went to the pedi but not the dentist.

ETA: Let me go look and see what context it said that, because it could be no *contributory* medical HX., or it could be none obtained or none that are known of.

[*MoonRider*]

She obviously has never heard CoCo Chanel's famous advice for women: When you get completely ready for the day, go back and remove one thing. Then you are ready.

Then again, with all that junk on, she might have removed something! Sorry about 10 pages behind and I had to snark on Cindy's tacky jewelry.

She sure has her bling going on. Keep in mind this is only one arm.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/Bling1.jpg

[shelkobe]

I just watched the video of the hearing and I can see Baez is his usual unprepared self by asking for 48 hours to review the judge's ruling with his "team." Jeez, he didn't even bring a motion here.

As for Conway mentioning the interests of the defendant, when he is not even her lawyer, makes me wonder how he thought he was knowledgeable enough on the law to hold that position.

[summer]

Is anyone able to see me?

Am on a different computer and my email doesn't see me. :(

Let me know!

I think that the judge did an awesome job today and loved when the State asked Geo how many times they went on talk shows and when was the last time after him saying that THEIR privacy was violated time after time!

:seeya: Strickland was awesome.

[kanzz]

I think they now know exactly when that child died. I don't think he ever saw them and if he did, its doubtful his account of what she was wearing is correct. I'm sure they know now, when and where she was killed because of what she was found in. Wonder if on the night of the 15th she had on those shorts?

Weren't those shorts the ones she was wearing in the video with her g-grandfather on 6/15?

I think that baby lost her life that night.

[Unleashed]

On days like today, when the Anthony's show such visible anger to the world, I wonder if they ever pause for a moment and wonder who they should be truly angry with? I wonder if they go back to that little sad house on HopeSpring Dr and hear faint echoes of a little girl's laughter and look in the mirror and place some of the blame on themselves. I wonder if they wish they could turn the clock back and make Casey accountable for all of the lies she told them before she hit them with the biggest lie of all. I wonder if they wonder if they will ever again find peace in their lives. I wonder if they will ever be able to put the blame for Caylee not being with them where the blame belongs.

JMO
my bold

That made my heart hurt.

Caylee :rose: You are our sunshine.

JMO

[spiritwolf46]

:seeya: Strickland was awesome.

Hiya summer! He sure was and thank you for letting me know that I am seen here today. Mozilla firefox cannot be seen on some things, so just wanted to make sure. :)

[Lavinia]

IIRC, the trash was from Tone's apartment. Did Casey "visit" Caylee? Could the adipocere have been under Casey's fingernails? When did Tone say Casey was having nightmares about Caylee?

Caylee would not had been at a point of handling at that time Desmom.

ETA: I mean I guess she could have, but, ugh. I doubt if she ever looked back anyway.

[Scampi]

ITA - one of those two dates. Part of me wants to go with 6/27 because it just seems to fit better. I can see her taking 3 days to figure out what she was going to do and to cook up the squirelly story.

This is where her cell phone ping locations will be very helpful, imo.

[True2Blues]

According to this, Adipocere can begin forming in two weeks, if the conditions are right and temperature is one of the conditions it lists as making a difference.

http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/adipocere

[summer]

beautifully stated cassidy-

"hit them with the biggest lie of all"- :sad: how true and how profoundly sad that little Caylee wasn't even worthy enough to this entire family for any of them to be truthful.

After a year, I don't see them ever being able to shift the blame where it belongs- they started blaming others from the early beginning and continued- blaming the public and the media that if she is found dead it would be the fault of the media, too quick to get angry at Nancy, Greta, Lenny, Tim and local reporters, the leeches, maggots and yet Casey is still sweetheart, gorgeous, beautiful.

imo

That's the thing, isn't it. It's almost like their attitude has gotten more confrontational and belligerent as time goes by.

Frankly at this point, even if they held a press conference and apologized to every living soul they've insulted and damaged and accused I still want to see them doing hard penance. Let them do community service picking up trash by the side of the road for a couple months then come back to me.

[kanzz]

This is where her cell phone ping locations will be very helpful, imo.

Yes! I'm not fast or proficient enough to locate the cell phone ping records for those dates. But I'll betcha somebody is...

;-)

[Lavinia]

Is anyone able to see me?

Am on a different computer and my email doesn't see me. :(

Let me know!

I think that the judge did an awesome job today and loved when the State asked Geo how many times they went on talk shows and when was the last time after him saying that THEIR privacy was violated time after time!

See ya' SW! :seeya: Yup, I think an A's blew his own boat out of the water with that question. :thumbsup:

[happy2bme]

This is where her cell phone ping locations will be very helpful, imo.


Do we have that info in the links?

[summer]

They want a foundation like Mark Klaas so very badly - but America seems to be telling them...We know Mark Klass, sir, and YOU'RE no Mark Klaas. Also, Scamthony's, America's Most Wanted already has a host...We know John Walsh, sir, and YOU'RE no John Walsh...Do everyone a favor - JUST SHUTTY ALREADY - I can see China from the hole you are digging!


My my you do have a way with words. :smile:

[True2Blues]

I just watched the video of the hearing and I can see Baez is his usual unprepared self by asking for 48 hours to review the judge's ruling with his "team." Jeez, he didn't even bring a motion here.

As for Conway mentioning the interests of the defendant, when he is not even her lawyer, makes me wonder how he thought he was knowledgeable enough on the law to hold that position.

Those two need to get their roles straight, don't they?

[cassidy]

They want a foundation like Mark Klaas so very badly - but America seems to be telling them...We know Mark Klass, sir, and YOU'RE no Mark Klaas. Also, Scamthony's, America's Most Wanted already has a host...We know John Walsh, sir, and YOU'RE no John Walsh...Do everyone a favor - JUST SHUTTY ALREADY - I can see China from the hole you are digging!

Mark Klaas and John Walsh and Steve Groene and Mark Lunsford and so many many more. All people who did it all right. Each and every one of them let the LE crawl up one side and down the other side of their lives in order to clear them and get on to the task of finding their children. They cooperated with LE in every way they possibly could. They made it clear that finding their children was their #1 priority and did whatever it took to get that done. The Anthony's don't even come close. I cannot imagine that they think they do. They stand alone and not in a good light.

JMO

[KittyMom]

I see the TN lab did a study of pizza even though no pizza was found in the trunk...just a box. Looks like they also studied a squirrel. Covered all the bases. Lyons better start talking to Casey about pleading out if possible.

[happy2bme]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/06/casey-anthony-georges-tears-dont-wash-in-court.html


WFTV's Kathi Belich zeroed in on a central irony in coverage of the case. "George Anthony got very, very emotional as he tried to convince the judge that releasing the autopsy report would hurt his family even more," she said. "But the emotion disappeared when he was asked by a media attorney how many times the Anthonys have appeared on national television."


More at the link

[kOOkie1]

Has there been any mention of the Vacs taken from the A's?? I thought I remember them taking the pesticide sprayer too.
Im surprised cindy left a paper towel in the car!! ughh and to think they cleaned that car!

[Lavinia]

My my you do have a way with words. :smile:

:lol::wink:

[KittyMom]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/06/casey-anthony-georges-tears-dont-wash-in-court.html


WFTV's Kathi Belich zeroed in on a central irony in coverage of the case. "George Anthony got very, very emotional as he tried to convince the judge that releasing the autopsy report would hurt his family even more," she said. "But the emotion disappeared when he was asked by a media attorney how many times the Anthonys have appeared on national television."


More at the link

yep he did, and in just a matter of seconds, too :angry:

[True2Blues]

They want a foundation like Mark Klaas so very badly - but America seems to be telling them...We know Mark Klass, sir, and YOU'RE no Mark Klaas. Also, Scamthony's, America's Most Wanted already has a host...We know John Walsh, sir, and YOU'RE no John Walsh...Do everyone a favor - JUST SHUTTY ALREADY - I can see China from the hole you are digging!


If we're lucky they'll jump into it and pull the dirt back in on themselves, and disappear.

[cassidy]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/06/casey-anthony-georges-tears-dont-wash-in-court.html


WFTV's Kathi Belich zeroed in on a central irony in coverage of the case. "George Anthony got very, very emotional as he tried to convince the judge that releasing the autopsy report would hurt his family even more," she said. "But the emotion disappeared when he was asked by a media attorney how many times the Anthonys have appeared on national television."


More at the link

I noticed that. I'll bet the Judge did too.

JMO

[norwood]

Raw video of JB's interview after hearing.

http://www.wftv.com/video/19802341/index.html

[happy2bme]

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1695396/Casey-Cell-Pings-6-27

[summer4meplz]

I don't recall anyone telling anyone they're not entitled to their opinion here today. Guess I missed something. :confused:



Hi Summer.......I've learned to only read posts pertaining to the Caylee case........poor little baby.....may she rest in peace

[EMAA]

The OC probably went looking for all the dead squirrels she could find to run over. jmo

[boo]

Well, hopefully the prosecution will have enough good witnesses that we can at least have a better idea of what the truth is from someone other than the Anthony's. I'm looking forward to the testimony of her friends. Curious to see if she was as successful at hiding her true self from them as she seems to think she was.

Yep, Tony, Mark Hawkins, Amy and actually Mallory should be interesting, too. Wonder where her moral compass points, once she is on the stand and under oath.

[margaritaville]

According to this, Adipocere can begin forming in two weeks, if the conditions are right and temperature is one of the conditions it lists as making a difference.

http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/adipocere

that makes perfect sense...

She was murdered on the 15th...buried in the backyard..
Dug up on the 27th..Tossed in the trunk for a couple days until mommy though tof the perfect spot (close to home) and tossed her in the woods......Being buried for that time would make the adipocere....
(Wet or damp place)......

MOO

[Lilly12]

I have been racking my brain trying to come up with a defense. Honestly, I don't see how the 'dream team' thinks remotely they will be able to get an aquittal, they may save her from the DP....but I just don't see any possiblity of aquittal.

Baez kept saying "The truth will come out" I cannot figure out any logical way that they are going to negate all the evidence.

The only possiblity, IMO, is to throw some other family member(s) under the bus...too much from where Caylee was found can be traced to the house.


Just wait until tonight. The defense lawyers will say what they have been saying all along, there is no evidence against Casey, and oh yeah, and she cannot get a fair trial. This information should never have been released. etc, etc. You know the drill I am sure.

As for George, have you ever seen such a phony !!! (Excluding Cindy). Both George and Cindy (and their lawyers) are full of IT!! my opinion only.

[summer]

Hi Summer.......I've learned to only read posts pertaining to the Caylee case........poor little baby.....may she rest in peace

Thanks, sis. :wub:

[num1barb]

I have always thought from the 16th to the 24th. The gas can day.

imo

Good afternoon all.

I think she was in the backyard from the 15th/early16th until shovel day, then the trunk until gas can day.

[tybek]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/06/casey-anthony-georges-tears-dont-wash-in-court.html


WFTV's Kathi Belich zeroed in on a central irony in coverage of the case. "George Anthony got very, very emotional as he tried to convince the judge that releasing the autopsy report would hurt his family even more," she said. "But the emotion disappeared when he was asked by a media attorney how many times the Anthonys have appeared on national television."


More at the link


Sure it will hurt their family more when the world sees the overwhelming evidence they have already seen proving that their daughter did this and still they deny it and defend her. What little support and compassion they have remaining will be impacted. And if and when that jailhouse video is released (and I think it will be during the trial), it will be even harder for folks to have any compassion for the Anthony's given their continued denial of Casey's involvement. IMO

[kOOkie1]

Raw video of JB's interview after hearing.

http://www.wftv.com/video/19802341/index.html

Ohhh LOL Kathi is the Best!!!!

[Sun]

Imo, they can't truly grieve without first getting honest about so many, many things that very likely led up to Caylee's murder. They can't grieve, mourn, surrender, accept, or move on without complete honesty.

Honesty is not where these people are at. Imo, they have lived the better part of their lives mired in dishonesty, so not only does the "truth hurt" in this situation, it's a foreign concept to this family.

I don't expect them to go home, turn inward, and begin the healing process anytime soon, if ever.

Whoever is giving them counsel, whether a pastor or a PhD, their attorney or friends, is either not trying to get through to them, or is having no success. Anyone in their circle who might be encouraging or enabling them to stay away from the truth is doing them a disservice.

I can't think of a more appropriate situation for that old saying, "The truth shall set you free."

imo

I agree with you completely! Very well said! IMO, George and Cindy should be going to professional counselors, but I have yet to hear even a hint of a rumour of this happening.

[True2Blues]

Yep, Tony, Mark Hawkins, Amy and actually Mallory should be interesting, too. Wonder where her moral compass points, once she is on the stand and under oath.


If Mallory is still in that family circle and planning to stay and probably raise children there, I'd imagine she's going to take the party line. If she doesn't she'll be thrown out. (which would probably be the best thing that could happen to her)

[Myka]

marijuana:confused:



so she smoke a joint and moved the body?

[summer]

Sure it will hurt their family more when the world sees the overwhelming evidence they have already seen proving that their daughter did this and still they deny it and defend her. What little support and compassion they have remaining will be impacted. And if and when that jailhouse video is released (and I think it will be during the trial), it will be even harder for folks to have any compassion for the Anthony's given their continued denial of Casey's involvement. IMO

That is excellent. Great points.

[cassidy]

Ohhh LOL Kathi is the Best!!!!

LOL was he studiously avoiding her or what?

JMO

[farrahrani]

Hi Lavinia, she had to be kept in a cool area away from insects for the grave wax to form, so I don't think she was in the trunk the whole time. I do think when Brian Burner saw her car in the garage she was loading Caylee into the trunk or getting the laundry bag to help move the body.

That's what I was wondering earlier...if she had been buried in the yard for a time, then moved to the trunk. At that point teh wax could already have formed, and once in the trunk decomp would have sped up, causing the smell to worsen.

Everyone wondered how she could drive with that smell for so long, but if Caylee hadn't been in the car the entire time, that would explain it.

[Amy]

George complains that the family's right to privacy and well-being has been tossed aside repeatedly in the past year. You're right, George but who did the tossing? Cindy with the hammers and lies on the front lawn or Lee when he stormed out of the house to desecrate the burgeoning memorial the day Caylee was found or maybe you with the hose and the tossing of lawn furniture and the lies and the phony concern for Caylee when you didn't even look for her. Rotten, rotten Georgie the man-boy. You stink George! :thumbdown:

Bolding mine:

The only people who threw their privacy and well-being out the window are the two people who put themselves on tv @ every opportunity they had. The ones who made sure they would be out and about for a reporter to shove a mic in their faces. All it would have taken would to have been to decline any offers to get on national tv. Or, as I suspect in some of the cases--calling the networks to see if they could get on a show. Guess this comes under the category of "You reap what you sow." IMO

[cuddlyrunner]

So if I'm reading this right, the adipose formed during the 31 days that Caylee was missing-it takes about a month for grave wax to form so if she cleaned her hands on paper towels after dumping poor Caylee's body then the fluids then decomposed further on the paper towels forming the adipose.

Just how did she live with herself? how does she live with herself? How does Cndy look in the mirror every day?

[ish]

I agree with you completely! Very well said! IMO, George and Cindy should be going to professional counselors, but I have yet to hear even a hint of a rumour of this happening.

wasn't the bald guy in the court next to Cindy also there in court after George made his suicide "attempt" I thought he was some sort of counselor to George.

[kOOkie1]

LOL was he studiously avoiding her or what?

JMO


Yes he did..too funny. Just made himself look like an A** though-
He acts like a little tattle-tale school age bully. Sooo irratating.

[cassidy]

Bolding mine:

The only people who threw their privacy and well-being out the window are the two people who put themselves on tv @ every opportunity they had. The ones who made sure they would be out and about for a reporter to shove a mic in their faces. All it would have taken would to have been to decline any offers to get on national tv. Or, as I suspect in some of the cases--calling the networks to see if they could get on a show. Guess this comes under the category of "You reap what you sow." IMO

Exactly! ! !

[tybek]

I agree with you completely! Very well said! IMO, George and Cindy should be going to professional counselors, but I have yet to hear even a hint of a rumour of this happening.


Not everyone recovers from tragedy. That said, when one of my siblings lost a young child, they were also angry at the world. I thought they should be in grief counseling too until a grief counselor told me that is wasn't uncommon for parents who lose young kids to not go into counseling for some time. He said for the first year they are generally in shock and denial, and not being in counseling in that time in common. He even said it was often futile until the shock/denial period ends.

[Imperfect4]

Pink shirt, blue jean shorts. White sneakers.

No shoes were found with the remains were they?

No shoes mentioned.

Don't forget the Pooh blanket. From Caylee's bedroom. And likely stained.

I'd say it's a good bet her life ended in her bedroom.

[cassidy]

wasn't the bald guy in the court next to Cindy also there in court after George made his suicide "attempt" I thought he was some sort of counselor to George.

I don't know who he is but I did ask earlier. Before the hearing started he was laughing and it looked like Cindy was trying not to laugh with him. Something struck him real funny before the hearing began? :shrug:

[Lavinia]

No shoes mentioned.

Don't forget the Pooh blanket. From Caylee's bedroom. And likely stained.

I'd say it's a good bet her life ended in her bedroom.

That's always been my assertion. Hers or Casey's.

[margaritaville]

Just wait until tonight. The defense lawyers will say what they have been saying all along, there is no evidence against Casey, and oh yeah, and she cannot get a fair trial. This information should never have been released. etc, etc. You know the drill I am sure.

As for George, have you ever seen such a phony !!! (Excluding Cindy). Both George and Cindy (and their lawyers) are full of IT!! my opinion only.


You forgot "Junk science"

moo

[True2Blues]

Raw video of JB's interview after hearing.

http://www.wftv.com/video/19802341/index.html

What an ignorant being he is.

"You're screwing up everybody's sound bites."

Making rude personal comments to a reporter who asks actual questions. (hello, 3rd grade school playground mentality)

The autopsy only says the cause of death is undetermined and a 'couple of speculations'? Um, it's a factual document Jose. :rolleyes:

[summer4meplz]

Raw video of JB's interview after hearing.

http://www.wftv.com/video/19802341/index.html

o m g could baez be any more unprofessional than investigating Kathi......saying what her "real" name is on tv.....telling her she is not well thought of by her peers.........what a baby..,.....

[Imperfect4]

All I can say is O M G !!

Here's a grid of the crime scene which helps make sense of the locations Dr G refers to:

Crime Scene Grid (http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2a9ws5z&s=5)

I believe that was created by steffaroob, a poster here who hasn't been seen in awhile.

You out there, steff?

[callmetree]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/06/casey-anthony-georges-tears-dont-wash-in-court.html


WFTV's Kathi Belich zeroed in on a central irony in coverage of the case. "George Anthony got very, very emotional as he tried to convince the judge that releasing the autopsy report would hurt his family even more," she said. "But the emotion disappeared when he was asked by a media attorney how many times the Anthonys have appeared on national television."


More at the link
thanks happy!

[cassidy]

That's always been my assertion. Hers or Casey's.

Could Casey have kept her in the bedroom for a few days?

[happy2bme]

So if I'm reading this right, the adipose formed during the 31 days that Caylee was missing-it takes about a month for grave wax to form so if she cleaned her hands on paper towels after dumping poor Caylee's body then the fluids then decomposed further on the paper towels forming the adipose.

Just how did she live with herself? how does she live with herself? How does Cndy look in the mirror every day?


Deny, Deny & Deny

[frances1]

Raw video of JB's interview after hearing.

http://www.wftv.com/video/19802341/index.html

Wow, Baez is really intimidated by Cathi Belich (sp?). I assume that's who that reporter is.

[haveaniceday]

Did anyone listen to the interview JB gave after the hearing?
He was very nasty to Kathi B. of ABC news

[ish]

I wonder if JB got permission from AL to be in court today. He originally had no interest in this hearing over the releasing of the autopsy. Suddenly he appears in court (without Casey who is supposed to be there for all motions involving the defense) and wants the autopsy held, when that is denied he throws in "Oh yeah Judge, I think my client may not get a fair trial if it's released"

I think JB and BC wanted to delay the confirmation of the placement of the duct tape. That is to me a very damning piece of evidence. G&C know it too.

And where's Lee.. where is he for his beloved CMA.

[kOOkie1]

o m g could baez be any more unprofessional than investigating Kathi......saying what her "real" name is on tv.....telling her she is not well thought of by her peers.........what a baby..,.....

I liked when she said.."Our ratings dont say that" haha

[cassidy]

Wow, Baez is really intimidated by Cathi Belich (sp?). I assume that's who that reporter is.

LOL and it really shows, doesn't it?

[bballgrl]

Ohhh LOL Kathi is the Best!!!!

"Your not very well thought off by your peers".... WTF??? Is he talking about himself? :rolleyes:

[happy2bme]

o m g could baez be any more unprofessional than investigating Kathi......saying what her "real" name is on tv.....telling her she is not well thought of by her peers.........what a baby..,.....

He must have missed the part about what people think of him???:sneaky:

[True2Blues]

So if I'm reading this right, the adipose formed during the 31 days that Caylee was missing-it takes about a month for grave wax to form so if she cleaned her hands on paper towels after dumping poor Caylee's body then the fluids then decomposed further on the paper towels forming the adipose.

Just how did she live with herself? how does she live with herself? How does Cndy look in the mirror every day?

They don't care about anyone but themselves.

[snowflakes]

Could Casey have kept her in the bedroom for a few days?

I doubt it with that nosy snoop Cindy around.

[callmetree]

Raw video of JB's interview after hearing.

http://www.wftv.com/video/19802341/index.html
i wonder does he realize what a jerk he is? nah....probably not.:glare:

[Lavinia]

so she smoke a joint and moved the body?

Well, there's no time-line in the paper towels, lol. She, (or whoever was around those towels), could have exposed them to marijuana at any time from the time they were bought and unwrapped, to being picked up in the car as evidence. Can't say when she smoked it or where the towels came from. She may have taken them from Tony's apt. :shrug: Or she could have stolen them from anywhere.

[ish]

Could Casey have kept her in the bedroom for a few days?

I doubt it, when Casey wasn't around I'll bet Cindy was all over that room looking for anything she could use to figure out what Casey was up to.

[frances1]

Not everyone recovers from tragedy. That said, when one of my siblings lost a young child, they were also angry at the world. I thought they should be in grief counseling too until a grief counselor told me that is wasn't uncommon for parents who lose young kids to not go into counseling for some time. He said for the first year they are generally in shock and denial, and not being in counseling in that time in common. He even said it was often futile until the shock/denial period ends.

Does shock/denial necessarily include hostility, or are one's existing traits merely magnified?

[True2Blues]

"Your not very well thought off by your peers".... WTF??? Is he talking about himself? :rolleyes:


I doubt he's well thought of in most places. That childish spite act will thrill the Attorneys and experts who have aligned themselves with him.

Professional Demeanor? What do those long words mean? Right Jose?:rolleyes:

[summer]

Does shock/denial necessarily include hostility, or are one's existing traits merely magnified?

I'm also wondering if denial/shock includes accusing innocent people of a crime.

[cassidy]

i wonder does he realize what a jerk he is? nah....probably not.:glare:


It certainly didn't make him look very professional, did it?

[happy2bme]

Well, there's no time-line in the paper towels, lol. She, (or whoever was around those towels), could have exposed them to marijuana at any time from the time they were bought and unwrapped, to being picked up in the car as evidence. Can't say when she smoked it or where the towels came from. She may have taken them from Tony's apt. :shrug: Or she could have stolen them from anywhere.


I wonder if there where any receipts showing the date in the bag?

[cassidy]

I doubt it, when Casey wasn't around I'll bet Cindy was all over that room looking for anything she could use to figure out what Casey was up to.

I guess you're right. I didn't factor her in there.

[Imperfect4]

She would have had to have had some quantity of fat on her then, IMO. Adipocere is made in the same way they use to make soap with animal fat and lye. I'm just wondering what the lowest limit is they can find on something like a paper towel? I don't think Casey would have Caylee's *fat* on her, either. Body fluids, possibly, but *fat*? :confused: Caylee seems to have been rather decomped while still int he trunk, IMO.

Per the report, a body that small in Florida's climate could be completely skeletonized in 10 days. Ten days. Seems if that baby was in the trunk any time at all, the decomp process was well underway right there.

[A.M.]

Casey said she was wearing a blue jean skirt when she dropped her off at the apartment.


If you look at the description in the autopsy of the shorts they found...it would appear that the description is the SAME shorts she is wearing in the last video of her with her great grandpa.

Which confirms what we all thought.

She died that night. :(

[True2Blues]

I'm also wondering if denial/shock includes accusing innocent people of a crime.


Don't forget exploiting a murdered grandchild to make a living and taking every opportunity to be in front of a TV camera.

I think the A's are just being themselves.

[SandyO]

Also known as "grave wax," adipocere (from the Latin, adipo for fat and cera for wax) is a grayish-white postmortem (after death) matter caused by fat decomposition, which results from hydrolysis and hydrogenation of the lipids (fatty cells) that compose subcutaneous (under the skin) fat tissues.

http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/adipocere

Oh how stinking gruesome. This is all just getting way beyond any understanding at all. So this material was found on paper towels which were in Casey's trunk? Oh, God, how much awfuller can this get?

[EMAA]

Could Casey have kept her in the bedroom for a few days?

Hmmmmmm Cindy did say that she cleaned and washed the bed clothes over and over even while Caylee was missing.

[Lavinia]

Per the report, a body that small in Florida's climate could be completely skeletonized in 10 days. Ten days. Seems if that baby was in the trunk any time at all, the decomp process was well underway right there.

Just brutal. I wish I could whip that chick right about now. :cursing:

[kOOkie1]

I wonder if there where any receipts showing the date in the bag?

Was the paper towel found in the trunk or was it from the bag Caylee was in or bag of trash from TonE's???
Im runnin on information overload I think:blushing:

[tybek]

Does shock/denial necessarily include hostility, or are one's existing traits merely magnified?

All I can say in the one case I've seen it upclose involving the loss of a young child suddenly and tragically, yet it did. It brought about anger at the world...at everyone and everything that wasn't suffering as bad as they were. And I'm not sure counseling would have helped the family move through the denial/shock and anger much quicker because losing a young child is so hard...it's so unnatural to lose a child. That is what the grief counselor told me also. JMO

[5boxersmom]

No shoes mentioned.

Don't forget the Pooh blanket. From Caylee's bedroom. And likely stained.

I'd say it's a good bet her life ended in her bedroom.

You could be right. :sad:

[Myka]

Sorry if this has been brought up..Too much to go through here:

No known medical history?!!

she had never been to the Doctor?????

am i reading that right?

It didn't say no known medical illnesses..it said history....

I asked that earlier.......

there has to be some kind of shot record and dental visit record

[Imperfect4]

With the discussion of the car again, I am wondering where that car is now. I can't remember if LE ever returned it to the Anthony family or if they are holding it as evidence.

Knowing now what we know about that trunk I can not imagine anyone wanting to keep that car. I wouldn't.

It's evidence. Locked up tight and possibly sealed.

I want the jury to smell it.

[Scampi]

"Your not very well thought off by your peers".... WTF??? Is he talking about himself? :rolleyes:

baez proved once again what a tiny man he truly is. Kathy Belich is one of the best investigative reporters on this case and antagonizing her shows just how juvenile and stupid baez is.

I loved how he referred to the ME's findings as "speculation." He should go back to chasing ambulances.

[cuddlyrunner]

I work with year 5 (they are aged 9 and 10-don't know what that would be over in the USA). My children when stressed/stropping exhibit Baez behaviour :-)

How can he as a professional person behave like that in his interview after the hearing?? He's like a stroppy child.

[Adonna]

Well, there's no time-line in the paper towels, lol. She, (or whoever was around those towels), could have exposed them to marijuana at any time from the time they were bought and unwrapped, to being picked up in the car as evidence. Can't say when she smoked it or where the towels came from. She may have taken them from Tony's apt. :shrug: Or she could have stolen them from anywhere.

Casey bought a very large package of paper towel at Target, I bet they match the paper towels found in the trunk with the grave wax on them. LE has probably already looked into this long ago, just more evidence agaist Casey.

[happy2bme]

If you look at the description in the autopsy of the shorts they found...it would appear that the description is the SAME shorts she is wearing in the last video of her with her great grandpa.

Which confirms what we all thought.

She died that night. :(

GA lied.:glare:

[Lavinia]

I wonder if there where any receipts showing the date in the bag?

I hope so. (I wasn't laughing about anyone thinking there was a literal timeline, I just got tickled over the idea of a roll of paper towels being able to bring Casey to justice. I meant no derision or anything. :blushing:)

[court~critic1®]

o m g could baez be any more unprofessional than investigating Kathi......saying what her "real" name is on tv.....telling her she is not well thought of by her peers.........what a baby..,.....


Yeah... he just had to get in a dirty dig to her, as he can't or won't answer the real questions he is asked. Just like the ants. Kathi has more will power than I have. If he had said someting like that to me I would have had to slap him across the mouth. Then I would have gotten arrested for assult, but it would have been worth it. What a peice of horse poo he is.moo

[Dtviewer3]

baez proved once again what a tiny man he truly is. Kathy Belich is one of the best investigative reporters on this case and antagonizing her shows just how juvenile and stupid baez is.

I loved how he referred to the ME's findings as "speculation." He should go back to chasing ambulances.

Layers of duct tape wrapped around Caylees mouth is in no way 'speculation'.

Baez needs to keep quiet and concentrate on defending his client.
His media appearances are doing nothing to help their case.

[Lavinia]

Casey bought a very large package of paper towel at Target, I bet they match the paper towels found in the trunk with the grave wax on them. LE has probably already looked into this long ago, just more evidence agaist Casey.

I have no doubt they have her up one side and down the other Adonna! I sure HOPE so!

[Myka]

Well, there's no time-line in the paper towels, lol. She, (or whoever was around those towels), could have exposed them to marijuana at any time from the time they were bought and unwrapped, to being picked up in the car as evidence. Can't say when she smoked it or where the towels came from. She may have taken them from Tony's apt. :shrug: Or she could have stolen them from anywhere.

that makes sense. I say they were on Tony's apt and exposed to pot smoke

[happy2bme]

I hope so. (I wasn't laughing about anyone thinking there was a literal timeline, I just got tickled over the idea of a roll of paper towels being able to bring Casey to justice. I meant no derision or anything. :blushing:)

Oh, I know:biggrin:


I was just wondering if there was. There has been so much released that I can't keep track of it.

[Imperfect4]

I have no idea why, other than some find the only way to deal with a sociopath is to go along with them. By watching the videos I'm under the impression Caylee got more love from Cindy than anyone from anyone else. My opinion, which I'm entitled to. I'm sure we'd all like to think we've never made mistakes that could have prevented such a horrible thing from happening. Nobody knows why Casey did this, we won't until the trial. I won't blame her parents for it, Casey killed her ....... they didn't.

I suspect Cindy's more obvious love (her brand of it) for Caylee was because Caylee was still entirely under her control. The same can't be said for anyone else in Cindy's world, so it makes sense Cindy aimed most of her affection toward Caylee.

As for blaming the Ants ... we don't yet know what the defense has up their sleeve. So while you may not hold them in any way responsible for either Casey's upbringing or Caylee's death, it's conceivable others will.

[Myka]

Casey bought a very large package of paper towel at Target, I bet they match the paper towels found in the trunk with the grave wax on them. LE has probably already looked into this long ago, just more evidence agaist Casey.

and she used her friend's check to pay for those paper towels

[tmw]

"Your not very well thought off by your peers".... WTF??? Is he talking about himself? :rolleyes:


I'm normally not a physical person, but I would love to slap his smug face.

[spiritwolf46]

Gotta run guys.

Thank you all for some very insightful reading on here today! You all rock!

As for Baez, he acted like a complete FOOL! He is already getting what he deserves and that is the lack of respect that follows him around daily!

Later all!!!! :wub:

[Lavinia]

I know one thing, lol. When our Or Lawn Doe group goes to Fl., we're going to have to pool our money and get a "Tom Park Toyota". That guy has certainly spent his ad dollars sponsoring our links, on WFTV. :laugh:

[Dick Tracy]

Layers of duct tape wrapped around Caylees mouth is in no way 'speculation'.

Baez needs to keep quiet and concentrate on defending his client.
His media appearances are doing nothing to help their case.

The waterboy ambulance chaser BOZO continues with his unprofessionalism.

All that meat - and no potatoes.

[AnnieBell]

So if there was a time delay before Casey removed the baby from the home wouldn't Cindy and especially George who stated that he was meticulous(sic) about his yard work have not noticied something like odor, disturbed grass or dirt. And where did the car sit after Casey threw Caylee into the swamp before it was towed? Would there have been an odor then?

[Imperfect4]

beautifully stated cassidy-

"hit them with the biggest lie of all"- :sad: how true and how profoundly sad that little Caylee wasn't even worthy enough to this entire family for any of them to be truthful.

After a year, I don't see them ever being able to shift the blame where it belongs- they started blaming others from the early beginning and continued- blaming the public and the media that if she is found dead it would be the fault of the media, too quick to get angry at Nancy, Greta, Lenny, Tim and local reporters, the leeches, maggots and yet Casey is still sweetheart, gorgeous, beautiful.

imo

Imo, if they blame Casey, they have to blame themselves. If they force responsibility onto her (which it appears they've never done), they must also take some responsibility onto their own shoulders for enabling her.

That's not what this family is about. This family is about taking no responsibility.

[Snoopy50]

If you look at the description in the autopsy of the shorts they found...it would appear that the description is the SAME shorts she is wearing in the last video of her with her great grandpa.

Which confirms what we all thought.

She died that night. :(
I agree. In reading the conclusion of Dr. G, I was suddenly struck by the thought that I was reading a report about a little girl. One who should be enjoying summer, playing in her playhouse, swimming in her pool. Instead, we are left with pages of writings about bones, bone fragments, and other items inconsistent with the vision of a happy, living, little girl. The one fact that was driven home to me was that the LAYERS of tape were placed over the mouth and nose BEFORE decomposition, which has me believing that Caylee was alive and possibly aware when her life was snuffed out. I cannot wrap my head around that vision, and I am shaken to the core. All of these things we considered, and even suspected, but to see them as facts somehow make this so much worse. I need to step away for a while, I cannot handle it right now. God bless all of you.:rose:

[margaritaville]

If you look at the description in the autopsy of the shorts they found...it would appear that the description is the SAME shorts she is wearing in the last video of her with her great grandpa.

Which confirms what we all thought.

She died that night. :(

She was wearing white shorts and a blue top while visiting G. grandpa
In the report it said the shorts were multi-colored pink, green and orange stiped with a pink button in front...

At the end is Caylee with G. Grandpa...
http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/last-known-video-of-caylee-anthony-warning-gut-wrenching/

[Myka]

So if there was a time delay before Casey removed the baby from the home wouldn't Cindy and especially George who stated that he was meticulous(sic) about his yard work have not noticied something like odor, disturbed grass or dirt. And where did the car sit after Casey threw Caylee into the swamp before it was towed? Would there have been an odor then?

not only that but the Ahole's own little dogs would have found "something dead" in the back yard.

[happy2bme]

IIRC, GA said the last time he saw Caylee she was wearing a denim skirt and a pink shirt and her hair was in a pony tail.

Or am I wrong?

[kOOkie1]

I think Cindy should remove those false eyelashes. They look like two centipedes.

..yea and after the Autopsy report she needs to stop showing up at hearings making puppy eyes for a glimspe from the murderer to smile or wave at her. It looks pitiful and is sickening.
Now is the time to just stop it already. If they want to stand by their daughter fine ..thats on their heads, but, man ohh man quit with the defending her and claiming she is innocent.

[ish]

Just wait until tonight. The defense lawyers will say what they have been saying all along, there is no evidence against Casey, and oh yeah, and she cannot get a fair trial. This information should never have been released. etc, etc. You know the drill I am sure.

As for George, have you ever seen such a phony !!! (Excluding Cindy). Both George and Cindy (and their lawyers) are full of IT!! my opinion only.

Please spare me from Jane Weintraub and her "there's no evidence" BS.:scared:

[Dick Tracy]

All this by a woman who will be found innocent, and when the world finds out the truth, will nominate her for the "Mother of the Year Award", and a lovely girl that any man in America would like to have (as his daughter).

I sooner believe that JFK will rise from the dead, then to bet that the PRP will be found innocent. She's going to fry. I hope they take her choice away, and strap her into Uncle Sparky. All evil people that murder their daughter and wait 4 1/2 weeks before they are "forced" to fess up deserve to die. There shouldn't be any place in this world for people of her kind.

MOO

[Lilly12]

Maybe so. Which doesn't exclude my opinion that she loved Caylee. They haven't acted in the way we would in circumstances we've never dealt with. That doesn't excuse anything. I said .......... I don't understand the logic or nonlogic to the rest of us, they're using, because I am not in their shoes and hopefully never will be. Ok, run with that .....


I don't have to be in Cindy's shoes to know. What was it Cindy said, I don't have to see God to know he is there....... I don't have to be in Cindy's shoes to know, I know MY character........ Not only did Casey killed a precious, innocent baby, but she killer HER precious, innocent baby, and Cindy's precious, innocent grandbaby. .........No, Cindy has no love for her grandbaby, out of sight out of mind. ....... I said this before, there is a way Cindy could support her daughter, while still loving, and respecting her grandbaby, for starters, let the chips fall where they will......... Cindy is out to make a buck, of this I am certain, at the expense of her grandbaby........ No one will ever convince me she loves Calylee........ Maybe she loved her at one time, but loves her, no.......... What is the old saying ---actions speak lounder the words and tells fewer lies. My opinion only.

[seeing_eye]

o m g could baez be any more unprofessional than investigating Kathi......saying what her "real" name is on tv.....telling her she is not well thought of by her peers.........what a baby..,.....

Obviously Jose likes to make digs at the "forces" out to get him and his "girl," namely Kathy B. and the state attorney (Are you all right?).

[True2Blues]

Imo, if they blame Casey, they have to blame themselves. If they force responsibility onto her (which it appears they've never done), they must also take some responsibility onto their own shoulders for enabling her.

That's not what this family is about. This family is about taking no responsibility.

Personal responsibility is not a phrase the A family, as a whole, are familiar with.

[frances1]

baez proved once again what a tiny man he truly is. Kathy Belich is one of the best investigative reporters on this case and antagonizing her shows just how juvenile and stupid baez is.

I loved how he referred to the ME's findings as "speculation." He should go back to chasing ambulances.

Yes, and I wonder what the results would be if attorneys were polled as to whether they consider Jose Baez a good representative of their profession?

[shelkobe]

Those two need to get their roles straight, don't they?
They're a joke, huge joke.

It would irritate me if either was my attorney. The things they get shot down on are very basic.

[True2Blues]

All this by a woman who will be found innocent, and when the world finds out the truth, will nominate her for the "Mother of the Year Award", and a lovely girl that any man in America would like to have (as his daughter).

I sooner believe that JFK will rise from the dead, then to bet that the PRP will be found innocent. She's going to fry. I hope they take her choice away, and strap her into Uncle Sparky. All evil people that murder their daughter and wait 4 1/2 weeks before they are "forced" to fess up deserve to die. There shouldn't be any place in this world for people of her kind.

MOO

Baby Murders probably have a special place in Hell. They don't need one here.

[SandyO]

I think the day she wouldn't let GA near the trunk, is the day she went down the road, opened the trunk and tossed her baby out..:sad:

Isn't this exactly what Lenny Padilla has said, Kitty?

[ish]

So if there was a time delay before Casey removed the baby from the home wouldn't Cindy and especially George who stated that he was meticulous(sic) about his yard work have not noticied something like odor, disturbed grass or dirt. And where did the car sit after Casey threw Caylee into the swamp before it was towed? Would there have been an odor then?

If I recall didn't George and Cindy point out a spot in their yard to the cops that they thought was suspicious? and also there was something about a bush that was moved and another object that was moved to keep Caylee from climbing into the pool.

[A.M.]

She was wearing white shorts and a blue top while visiting G. grandpa
In the report it said the shorts were multi-colored pink, green and orange stiped with a pink button in front...

At the end is Caylee with G. Grandpa...
http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/last-known-video-of-caylee-anthony-warning-gut-wrenching/

It looked to me like the shorts had pastel strips on them. It's a bit hard to see from the video.

[ish]

Obviously Jose likes to make digs at the "forces" out to get him and his "girl," namely Kathy B. and the state attorney (Are you all right?).

If I were Kathi Belich I'd probably say "no my real name is Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales" and watch him **** a brick.:laugh:

[BANJO GRANNY]

:ohmy:
Death penalty mentality. If she could drive around with her baby in the trunk of the car, and live her life like she did -- give her the needle. Or two.

Monster woman.
:mad:

Sorry Tunamelt, I have to disagree with giving her the needle, IMO They need to duct tape her mouth and nose, put her in plastic bags with eye holes in it and a big picture of Caylee hanging up above her where that will be the last thing she see as she smother's to death.

Also I wonder how in the world George, Cindy & Lee can live with themselves knowing what they are IMO trying to help coverup, and trying to make money on that sweet baby's death.

:rose:FOR CAYLEE REST IN PEACE SWEETIE, THERE WILL BE JUSTICE FOR YOU

[Chardonnay]

Did I miss in the report about the heart sticker or residue? I didn't see it.

[happy2bme]

If I recall didn't George and Cindy point out a spot in their yard to the cops that they thought was suspicious? and also there was something about a bush that was moved and another object that was moved to keep Caylee from climbing into the pool.

Yes the bush that like to drove Kitty insane. LOL

[Imperfect4]

I'm also wondering if denial/shock includes accusing innocent people of a crime.

Exactly. It always comes back to that, for me. Hostility toward everyone outside their home, and accusations against others.

Denial/shock/grief? Nope.

[Sun]

Adipocere or grave wax or mortuary wax is a water-insoluble material consisting mostly of saturated fatty acidFatty acid
In chemistry, especially biochemistry, a fatty acid is a carboxylic acid often with a long unbranched aliphatic tail , which is either saturation or Unsaturated compound....
s. It is formed by the slow hydrolysisHydrolysis
Hydrolysis is a chemical reaction during which one or more water are split into hydrogen and hydroxide ions which may go on to participate in further reactions....
of fats in decomposing material such as a human cadaverCadaver
A cadaver is a dead human body.Cadaver may also refer to:* Cadaver tomb, tomb featuring an effigy in the form of a decomposing body* Cadaver , a video game...
by action of anaerobic bacteriaBacteria
The Bacteria are a large group of unicellular microorganisms. Typically a few micrometres in length, bacteria have a wide range of shapes, ranging from spheres to rods and spirals....
. The transformation of fats into adipocere occurs best in the absence of oxygen in cold and humid environment, such as in wet ground or mud at the bottom of a lake or a sealed cask, and it can occur with both embalmed and untreated bodies. Corpses of infants and overweight persons are particularly prone to adipocere transformation. Adipocere formation begins within a month of death, and in the absence of air it can persist for centuries. An exposed, infested body or a body in a warm environment is unlikely to form deposits of adipocere.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Adipocere



Bolding:

Caylee's age could have something to do with this process, though I wonder, a car trunk would be very warm...maybe Caylee was left in the back yard hidden for a while, that is why the process started.

I just can't shake that the dogs hit in that yard.

You can't shake that feeling, because you are probably correct. JMO too.

[True2Blues]

If I were Kathi Belich I'd probably say "no my real name is Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales" and watch him **** a brick.:laugh:

That I'd like to see! :thumbsup:

[kOOkie1]

If I were Kathi Belich I'd probably say "no my real name is Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales" and watch him **** a brick.:laugh:

LOL ish..that would have been perfect.:chicken:

[Motomom]

So if there was a time delay before Casey removed the baby from the home wouldn't Cindy and especially George who stated that he was meticulous(sic) about his yard work have not noticied something like odor, disturbed grass or dirt. And where did the car sit after Casey threw Caylee into the swamp before it was towed? Would there have been an odor then?

I think they did smell "something" back there. Remember they lifted up the little house or something to look for Caylee. I think whenever it was that they realized she was "missing"..they remembered that smell..that's why they looked. It may have been very very faint when they smelled it back there, maybe thinking it was a dead animal in the vicinity maybe? Blowing it off...then come full circle and Caylee is gone, casey has a stinky trunk.. and my best is they remembered (if they ever forgot). I also think they know when she passed and where, maybe not WHEN it was happening, but with all the reports out now and most importantly her clothing, when that information came out I think they knew. I think they started covering when they realized what their daughter had done.. hence George seeing her on the 16thing wearing denim.JMO

[ish]

..yea and after the Autopsy report she needs to stop showing up at hearings making puppy eyes for a glimspe from the murderer to smile or wave at her. It looks pitiful and is sickening.
Now is the time to just stop it already. If they want to stand by their daughter fine ..thats on their heads, but, man ohh man quit with the defending her and claiming she is innocent.

i'll bet Cindy is reading that AUtopsy report on line right now. George is sitting in the dark whimpering.

[shelkobe]

If we're lucky they'll jump into it and pull the dirt back in on themselves, and disappear.
Bwahahahaha! You payin' for my new keyboard now that this one has Diet Dr Pepper all over it?!!

[Dick Tracy]

When Bozo made the comment about Kathi's -

Bozo: Is your real name _______ ? I heard that.

KathiB: Well, we've heard you have a new nickname. W A T E R B O Y.

[True2Blues]

i'll bet Cindy is reading that AUtopsy report on line right now. George is sitting in the dark whimpering.


I see them applying fake tan and calling around to see who will let them get in front of a camera and rant about how sympathetic they are.

[Imperfect4]

As is their right ..... just as it is mine to hold a sociopath murderer responsible for her own actions.

Agreed. And just as it is the right of the majority on this thread to see how the Anthony brand of parenting could easily produce a sociopath murderer.

[True2Blues]

Bwahahahaha! You payin' for my new keyboard now that this one has Diet Dr Pepper all over it?!!

Sorry! :wink:

[kitty1182]

Yes the bush that like to drove Kitty insane. LOL

Yep........:biggrin:

[A.M.]

Wasn't the autopsy supposed to be 20 - 30 pages? Are all the rest pictures?

[jammies]

Desecration of little Caylee's remains must be on G&C if they had prior knowlege that she was in that jungle decomposing. JMO


Well, SOMEONE sent DC to the gravesite and it wasn't the invisible Zanny.

[Postergeist]

So if there was a time delay before Casey removed the baby from the home wouldn't Cindy and especially George who stated that he was meticulous(sic) about his yard work have not noticied something like odor, disturbed grass or dirt. And where did the car sit after Casey threw Caylee into the swamp before it was towed? Would there have been an odor then?

They may have noticed- including the dogs. Maybe the neighbors recalled that the dogs were more vocal in the month of June- but were never asked.

Think back to the interview the Anthonys did with Greta. They pointed out and talked about all the different landscaping they had been doing in early July. IRRC, they pointed out to LE areas were ground had been disturbed- of course- Cindy mentioned that the reason Casey would be doing any digging was due to the bamboo, that it would hurt Caylee's feet.

While Caylee was missing her mom was concerned about the pesky bamboo shoots and Cindy backed her up on that story.

Cindy made a point that George has put his blood and sweat into the yard, and that was why LE dogs hit- (basically, George drips out decomp because the dogs were hitting on cadaver scent).

Somewhere in the links should be the Greta interviews- if you didn't see them the first time, it's worth a look.

And speaking of odor, Cindy has stated several times about all the decomp from groceries in her frig. How things smell "like they died" in her frig.

Basically, imo- a person isn't going to notice the stinky science project in anyone's frig UNTIL they open the frig door and get a whiff.

At some point, the odor IMO stayed in the trunk and would not have been noticable UNTIL the trunk was opened.

(kinda like you aren't really aware that someone has stinky feet- until they take their shoes off!)

Would've been worse if the bags split open and leakage occurred.

Her car had been to various places in those 31 days- but not at her parents for any length of time. Likely others did notice odor, and didn't connect to that particular car, esp. if she made of point of parking it near dumpsters or other cars.

imo

[kitty1182]

Isn't this exactly what Lenny Padilla has said, Kitty?

Yes..:wink:

[Scampi]

Did I miss in the report about the heart sticker or residue? I didn't see it.

The report said the tape was sent off to the FBI lab, it's in that report that we'll learn of the residue from the heart shaped sticker I bet.

[denjet]

Or from that sandbox with the cover on it that Greta pointed out in one of the interviews.

OMG Scampi! Good point ... that would be the same sand box the dogs hit on??? OMG! I didn't connect that ... :scared:

[Imperfect4]

Did I miss in the report about the heart sticker or residue? I didn't see it.

Not a word about it. My guess is it's part of the homicide investigation, separate from autopsy results.

[AMS]

o m g could baez be any more unprofessional than investigating Kathi......saying what her "real" name is on tv.....telling her she is not well thought of by her peers.........what a baby..,.....

He is so unprofessional....imo

Can't stand him.

imo

[flipflop]

Was Casey in court today? thanks

No, she wasn't. I am curious as to why. Anyone know?

[Lavinia]

There are lots of bad parents. I've seen much worse than the Anthony's and their children haven't turned into murderers, especially of their own. Unless Casey was an abused child all her life, locked up in a dark closet, not fed properly .... something that could cause a breakdown with reality .....which so far I haven't seen evidence of. Sorry, but I believe Casey owns this, not her parents.

I think Casey owns this also. But I think her parents are leasing a part of that property from her.

[Buttoneyes]

Just finished reading the material released and sorry if this has been mentioned earlier as I didn't have time to read through all those posts to see, but this was the thing that jumped out at me in reading the autopsy stuff: In the section titled BONES pp. 3.

"A hair mat was noted on the base of the skull and grayish colored tape was noted COVERING THE MOUTH AND NASAL APERTURE AREAS."

Does that mean she wrapped not just Caylee's mouth with the duct tape, but also covered her nose so she couldn't breathe?

[Postergeist]

No, she wasn't. I am curious as to why. Anyone know?

it wasn't her attorney that asked for them to be sealed and she didn't make the request. I don't think she cares too much about matters pertaining to her parents or her parents wishes.

imo

[jammies]

I'm starting to believe that was the day also, Sis.

Yep, especially since GA changed his original story about the "gas can" day. His later story was he got no where near the trunk, IIRC

[flipflop]

it wasn't her attorney that asked for them to be sealed and she didn't make the request. I don't think she cares too much about matters pertaining to her parents or her parents wishes.

imo

Oh, ok thanks. :smile:

[True2Blues]

I think Casey owns this also. But I think her parents are leasing a part of that property from her.

They're certainly responsible for their own actions and those are despicable.

[101Spots]

No, she wasn't. I am curious as to why. Anyone know?

Conway filed the motion for George and Cindy. Casey was not part of that group.

Baez was an after-thought. He was *thinking* of filing a motion, not actually doing it.

[Lavinia]

They're certainly responsible for their own actions and those are despicable.

I quite agree T2B!

[Imperfect4]

If you'll read my posts, I said 'loved' and 'cared'. I believe they're in survival mode right now. She is still their daughter and whether they'll ever be able to accept what she did and deal with it rationally, I don't know, but loving Caylee before she died and not being able to deal with reality in such a horrific situation after, doesn't mean they loved her any less. One doesn't exclude the other. IMO

Part of the reason for trials and sentences is to mete out punishment, and hopefully, to serve as a deterrent for other members of society who might be similarly inclined as the accused.

Part of the examination of the family is for the same reason. Imo, you're skimming the surface here. Mistakes were made and continue to be made all the way around in the Anthony family. Terrible, painful, fatal mistakes. Those can't be ignored or skimmed over, imo, if we as a society have any hope of learning from what happened, and deterring future occurrences.

[101Spots]

Just finished reading the material released and sorry if this has been mentioned earlier as I didn't have time to read through all those posts to see, but this was the thing that jumped out at me in reading the autopsy stuff: In the section titled BONES pp. 3.

"A hair mat was noted on the base of the skull and grayish colored tape was noted COVERING THE MOUTH AND NASAL APERTURE AREAS."

Does that mean she wrapped not just Caylee's mouth with the duct tape, but also covered her nose so she couldn't breathe?

Yes, it does. :sad:

[Lavinia]

Conway filed the motion for George and Cindy. Casey was not part of that group.

Baez was an after-thought. He was *thinking* of filing a motion, not actually doing it.

Kind of like he's "thinking" of mounting a defense. :laugh:

[Dick Tracy]

Just finished reading the material released and sorry if this has been mentioned earlier as I didn't have time to read through all those posts to see, but this was the thing that jumped out at me in reading the autopsy stuff: In the section titled BONES pp. 3.

"A hair mat was noted on the base of the skull and grayish colored tape was noted COVERING THE MOUTH AND NASAL APERTURE AREAS."

Does that mean she wrapped not just Caylee's mouth with the duct tape, but also covered her nose so she couldn't breathe?

Yes, I think so. Mother Mary, what a hell of a way to die.

[denjet]

Tripled bagged in a trunk during the summer months wouldn't take long I wouldn't think. Horrible to know what that baby went through.
That's what I was thinking too, Cyn!
Maybe the decomp was equivalent to a week or more, but being in a hot trunk accelerated the whole process.
so, so sad ... :ohmy::sad:

[shelkobe]

Per the report, a body that small in Florida's climate could be completely skeletonized in 10 days. Ten days. Seems if that baby was in the trunk any time at all, the decomp process was well underway right there.
Oh Lordie, I'm not ready to read the report because the thought of that is so awful. How do you move around the skeletonized body of your daughter and not have the magnitude of what you did hit you like a ton of bricks? How could she not feel remorse and guilt at that point? Even if she were in some sort of psychotic haze when she killed Caylee, she would no longer be in that state many days later while she's moving around her skeleton.

Casey was able to cry for herself during the bond hearing, but when did she cry for Caylee?

[101Spots]

Kind of like he's "thinking" of mounting a defense. :laugh:

Now, cut him some slack. He's got depos to take about things that are unimportant, media appearances, etc. Oh, and toting coffee for LKB and checking the fax for AL.....

Loser.

[margaritaville]

There are lots of bad parents. I've seen much worse than the Anthony's and their children haven't turned into murderers, especially of their own. Unless Casey was an abused child all her life, locked up in a dark closet, not fed properly .... something that could cause a breakdown with reality .....which so far I haven't seen evidence of. Sorry, but I believe Casey owns this, not her parents.


no sorry they own it too...

The "little snot head" has made them enough money to pay off two mortgages and clean up most of their debt....They are bottom feeders who have done nothing but make money off their dead granddaughter.

Even today..this mockery of a hearing was nothing more then them setting out "again" to score a few more spots on the morning programs and news outlets so they can get more$$$$$$$$$...
I wonder how many calls they have recieved since they left the court house?? LKL, Greta , GMA, The Today Show??

They decided to try and stop the "autopsy"...they had no legal basis to do so...and they knew that, as did their attorney....

But as long as they keep their mugs out there, they keep the almighty dollar rolling in....moo

[*MoonRider*]

IIRC, GA said the last time he saw Caylee she was wearing a denim skirt and a pink shirt and her hair was in a pony tail.

Or am I wrong?

Casey's handwritten statement says Pink shirt, jean shorts, white sneakers and hair in ponytail.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/Caseyhandwritten.jpg

Looking for George's anyone?

[callmetree]

Sorry Tunamelt, I have to disagree with giving her the needle, IMO They need to duct tape her mouth and nose, put her in plastic bags with eye holes in it and a big picture of Caylee hanging up above her where that will be the last thing she see as she smother's to death.

Also I wonder how in the world George, Cindy & Lee can live with themselves knowing what they are IMO trying to help coverup, and trying to make money on that sweet baby's death.

:rose:FOR CAYLEE REST IN PEACE SWEETIE, THERE WILL BE JUSTICE FOR YOU
sounds good to me also!:thumbup:

[Imperfect4]

There are lots of bad parents. I've seen much worse than the Anthony's and their children haven't turned into murderers, especially of their own. Unless Casey was an abused child all her life, locked up in a dark closet, not fed properly .... something that could cause a breakdown with reality .....which so far I haven't seen evidence of. Sorry, but I believe Casey owns this, not her parents.

No need to apologize. Casey was raised by her parents, both of whom appear to have significant personality disorders, and lived under their roof until she did the crime she's accused of. It's entirely illogical, imo, to separate the Anthonys from what happened to Caylee.

[ish]

What is wiht Brad Conway and the duct tape? He feels it will be speculated on if the autopsy is released, well what have all of us been doing ever since we heard about the duct tape? The reason everyone speculates is because people like Brad Conway are out there saying that what we read in black and white is not so. He was on LKL saying that the duct tape was not around her head. He was playing word games just like a typical defense attorney. Now he'll spin what was released today and try to make people doubt what is in that report. I think they should have released the photos too. that would end speculation, except as to who may have put it there.

[True2Blues]

Oh Lordie, I'm not ready to read the report because the thought of that is so awful. How do you move around the skeletonized body of your daughter and not have the magnitude of what you did hit you like a ton of bricks? How could she not feel remorse and guilt at that point? Even if she were in some sort of psychotic haze when she killed Caylee, she would no longer be in that state many days later while she's moving around her skeleton.

Casey was able to cry for herself during the bond hearing, but when did she cry for Caylee?

She's probably furious with Caylee for doing this to her. I doubt Casey is capable of crying for anyone but herself.

[Buttoneyes]

Yes, it does. :sad:

Then, isn't suffocation the likely cause of death?

[margaritaville]

Just finished reading the material released and sorry if this has been mentioned earlier as I didn't have time to read through all those posts to see, but this was the thing that jumped out at me in reading the autopsy stuff: In the section titled BONES pp. 3.

"A hair mat was noted on the base of the skull and grayish colored tape was noted COVERING THE MOUTH AND NASAL APERTURE AREAS."

Does that mean she wrapped not just Caylee's mouth with the duct tape, but also covered her nose so she couldn't breathe?

Okay not to sound harsh here...
But

She was murdering her...Caylee breathing, really didn't matter much to her....moo

[Sun]

Raw video of JB's interview after hearing.

http://www.wftv.com/video/19802341/index.html

Thanks for posting this link! Kathi Belich has been like a breath of fresh air when listening to coverage of this case. I like her style, I like her quick thinking, and well-thoughtout questions.

I could not do what she does.... and deal with nasty people like Baez. She is a success in my book, for doing a great job!

[True2Blues]

What is wiht Brad Conway and the duct tape? He feels it will be speculated on if the autopsy is released, well what have all of us been doing ever since we heard about the duct tape? The reason everyone speculates is because people like Brad Conway are out there saying that what we read in black and white is not so. He was on LKL saying that the duct tape was not around her head. He was playing word games just like a typical defense attorney. Now he'll spin what was released today and try to make people doubt what is in that report. I think they should have released the photos too. that would end speculation, except as to who may have put it there.

I'll bet he wouldn't volunteer to have duct tape placed on him as it was described to be on Caylee, and see what happens.

[Amy]

I asked that earlier.......

there has to be some kind of shot record and dental visit record


Kids can get their immunizations @ the county health clinic here. The immunization is administered by an RN or LPN, but there is no physical exam or anything like that. I suppose the parent could discuss issues w/the nurse giving the shot. But, generally, the focus of the visit is on getting the immunizations given and documented on the shot record. So, if Caylee was pretty darn healthy, there very well could be no doctor visits.

There are a lot of kids who don't see a dentist by the age of 2. In the school where I substituted for the nurse, there were kids who had never seen a dentist by the time they were in pre-kindergarden-- most were about 4 years old. Perhaps the A's were of the type who feel that a visit to the dentist when the child still has his/her baby teeth is a waste of time and $$$. If there weren't any evident problems w/her teeth and mouth, it is not unusual from where I am for her to have no dental visits.

Even so, they don't do xrays for little ones on regular exams--unless the dentist thinks there is a problem. I can't remember how old my kids were before they were xrayed, but had been going to the dentist for a couple of years.

[myownopera]

No, she wasn't. I am curious as to why. Anyone know?


I do understand what the others have said regarding it was not her attorney who filed the motion, etc., but I think she truly does not care -- about anything. I don't think she cares that she is in jail -- now that her whole life has been taken away from her -- I don't think she cares about anybody or anything - probably no feelings at all. I wish I thought she was not wanting to be in jail, but I don't think she cares - she does not have to work - does not have to take care of Caylee, does not have to deal with her parents -- she is just that hard and cold. Everytime she has been in court, from the very first time, she has acted like she does NOT CARE!!!

JMOO

[Sun]

wasn't the bald guy in the court next to Cindy also there in court after George made his suicide "attempt" I thought he was some sort of counselor to George.

That fellow has been at every court hearing, I think. Don't know who he is, but due to his "appearance" I've noticed him. LOL Tall fellow, but not too snappy a dresser.

[Scampi]

Parents make terrible, painful mistakes every day. I don't get though what the Anthony's are supposed to have done to Casey to have made her kill her own child. Maybe you can explain it to me.

LOL, all you have to do is wait for this trial, Andrea Lyon will explain it all to you. It is her habit to delve into the personal history of her murdering clients and find someone else to blame for them killing. IMO, she will do the same here. george, lee and cindy are going under the bus.

[ish]

Casey's handwritten statement says Pink shirt, jean shorts, white sneakers and hair in ponytail.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/Caseyhandwritten.jpg

Looking for George's anyone?

by the time Casey wrote that statement, she had been with Cindy all evening, plenty of time for her to have told Cindy who told George. I mean they were home creating my space pages and flyers, so I'm sure what Caylee was wearing according to Casey was mentioned. George took it from that.

Also in the text Casey and Cindy sent to all Casey's friends that morning the caylee has been missing for 31 days. Call me if you know anything. WHy didn't Casey say in that text Zanny kidnapped my baby
31 days ago, if you know where Zanny is call me. Why just say missing?
Another reason to believe that Zanny never existed, how many people do you think wiould have texted back "who is Zanny"

[cassidy]

I'm curious, why? Because of their actions afterwards? What did they do to her before that was so damaging it would make her do this? She seemed perfectly rational out partying and whooping it up, covering her tracks all that time after .... so obviously they didn't drive her insane. How they're acting now imo can't really be an accurate prediction of how Casey was raised, because the situation they're in is just so abnormal. Nope, she owns it all. JMO

She lied. They kept believing. They own part.

[101Spots]

Then, isn't suffocation the likely cause of death?

The signs sure point that way to me.

[trich]

it wasn't her attorney that asked for them to be sealed and she didn't make the request. I don't think she cares too much about matters pertaining to her parents or her parents wishes.

imo

At the end of th ehearing Baez tried to get a stay saying his client was interested in staying it....he never until that moment was a part of with holding the autopsy report.
I think he tried to do that without her being required to appear.
He never filed before hand.
the judge rightly said NO!

[Buttoneyes]

Okay not to sound harsh here...
But

She was murdering her...Caylee breathing, really didn't matter much to her....moo

Wouldn't suffocation then be the likely cause of death? What a repulsive thing to do. Murder is one thing, but I would think that she would have to hate this child A LOT to tape her and watch her struggle and suffocate. Or, maybe she taped her and shut her in the trunk so she wouldn't have to watch her or do anything beyond that. Maybe she and TonE were shopping for movies while she suffocated and tried to free herself. OMG!

[Imperfect4]

Parents make terrible, painful mistakes every day. I don't get though what the Anthony's are supposed to have done to Casey to have made her kill her own child. Maybe you can explain it to me.

They role modeled lying, deceit, lack of morals, disrespect for fellow human beings, arrogance, and taking no responsibility for their words and actions.

Take those lack-of-character traits, sprinkle liberally with enabling and covering behavior, throw them in a blender with a kid with her own personality disorders, and you get Casey.

Cause and effect.

[court~critic1®]

No need to apologize. Casey was raised by her parents, both of whom appear to have significant personality disorders, and lived under their roof until she did the crime she's accused of. It's entirely illogical, imo, to separate the Anthonys from what happened to Caylee.


This is exactly what her new att. wants the jury to believe. It wasn't caseys fault, but her parents that raised her. So therefore casey can;t be held responsible for killing baby Caylee.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that the ants reared a brutal killer. She won't get the DP. I don't care, as long as the killer gets LWOPP.

[Imperfect4]

Really? I think it's illogical to blame anyone but Casey for killing Caylee. No apologies this time. I believe they're her victims also and as many things they've done ... and are doing .... wrong, unless they've abused Casey all her life and driven her insane, they played no part in Caylee's death. She KNEW right from wrong. I doubt there are many perfect parents in this world.

Most parents make an effort.

[Buttoneyes]

The signs sure point that way to me.

I am as disgusted by this as I was at that perverted freak Cooey who buried that little girl alive. I don't think I will be able to eat the dinner that is in the oven.:cursing:

[101Spots]

At the end of th ehearing Baez tried to get a stay saying his client was interested in staying it....he never until that moment was a part of with holding the autopsy report.
I think he tried to do that without her being required to appear.
He never filed before hand.
the judge rightly said NO!

Butbutbutbutbutbut..... he was going to discuss it with *his* team and get back to the judge on that.

"Yeah, Judge, I missed my flight, but you can hold it in mid-air until I decide if I want to get on board. Please?"

Loser.

[Lavinia]

I'm curious, why? Because of their actions afterwards? What did they do to her before that was so damaging it would make her do this? She seemed perfectly rational out partying and whooping it up, covering her tracks all that time after .... so obviously they didn't drive her insane. How they're acting now imo can't really be an accurate prediction of how Casey was raised, because the situation they're in is just so abnormal. Nope, she owns it all. JMO

I think they have fostered a climate of "mis-truths" and lack of personal responsibility and I come to that conclusion by watching the way they have handled all this. In the beginning, I believed they behave the way they do due to extreme denial and grief. I no longer do. It is obvious they are drumming up the funds to both help themselves and Casey in her defense. I don't blame them for loving their daughter. I blame them for throwing Caylee over the side to do so. They are steeped in a personal culture of lying, deceit and cheating, IMO. They lie when it doesn't even pay to do so, just like Casey did. It's just second nature for them. Same with the finances. I think of when she (Cindy) took Amy's money and stuck in her (pocket)?) It was dog-eat-dog there.

I don't think the A's "made her do it". I doubt that they could foretell it would come to this tragedy, but this house was full of dysfunction. Alliances, lies, family secrets, manipulations, etc. I think that Casey was maybe born with the predilection to be a psychopath and the family fed the beast.

These guys can't even tell the truth by accident.

[ish]

That fellow has been at every court hearing, I think. Don't know who he is, but due to his "appearance" I've noticed him. LOL Tall fellow, but not too snappy a dresser.

I'd only seen him the one time before, maybe a local courtroom lookie-loo, we have some here in my town.

[Stella Rose]

Boy, even though we knew a lot of what would be in this report, I feel ill.

When I read the detailed list of what bones were recovered I though I was going to be physically ill.

Just thinking of that sweet little one scattered about for animals to pick at.

I think I need a time out for a bit. Bye all. I'll be back - maybe next week.

[margaritaville]

Oh Lordie, I'm not ready to read the report because the thought of that is so awful. How do you move around the skeletonized body of your daughter and not have the magnitude of what you did hit you like a ton of bricks? How could she not feel remorse and guilt at that point? Even if she were in some sort of psychotic haze when she killed Caylee, she would no longer be in that state many days later while she's moving around her skeleton.

Casey was able to cry for herself during the bond hearing, but when did she cry for Caylee?


Never...
This is what I think and you all can laugh at me but......

I think that Casey was able to mover her dead body around because....

1> She hated her (duct tape)
2> she was finally free

After the deed was done she re-wrote what had happened in her brain and convinced herself it was true..
Such as:
A> Caylee is at Universal
B> Caylee is at the beach
C> Caylee is at Sea World with Zanny and Mom
D> Caylee is better off not being around all the family stuff going on right now.


And Casey is the definition of a Pathological liar......Which explains a lot.
Plus I feel she has other issues along with it....Personality disorders and very narcissistic

Pathological Liar


A pathological liar is usually defined as someone who lies incessantly to get their way and does so with little concern for others. Pathological lying is often viewed as coping mechanism developed in early childhood and it is often associated with some other type of mental health disorder. A pathological liar is often goal-oriented (i.e., lying is focused - it is done to get one's way). Pathological liars have little regard or respect for the rights and feelings of others. A pathological liar often comes across as being manipulative, cunning and self-centered.
http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/confront_a_liar/public/pathological-compulsive.html

And lets not forget Casey's own words

I have no regrets, just a bit worried. I just want for everything to work out okay.

I completely trust my own judgement & know that I made the right decision. I just hope that the end justifies the means.

I just want to know what the future will hold for me. I guess I will soon see -- This is the happiest that I have been in a very long time.

I hope that my happiness will continue to grow -- I've made new friends that I really like. I've surrounded myself with good people -- I am finally happy. Let's just hope that it doesn't change.

[Imperfect4]

Butbutbutbutbutbut..... he was going to discuss it with *his* team and get back to the judge on that.

"Yeah, Judge, I missed my flight, but you can hold it in mid-air until I decide if I want to get on board. Please?"

Loser.

I'd like to hope he'll be just that version of Johnny Come Lately at the criminal trial, however, I'm sure someone else on the "team" will pick up his slack.

[EverMoth]

And, check this out:

"Adipocere starts to form within a month after death"

http://www.deathonline.net/decomposition/body_changes/grave_wax.htm

OMG! Just now got on and WHOA!!!! BIG NEWS!!

I'm trying to catch up here, but got to the "grave wax" part. If the paper towels taken from the trash in the trunk had grave wax on them, wouldn't this mean that Caylee had been dead for at least a month in the car before being dumped? :scared:

[coffee1950j]

Parents make terrible, painful mistakes every day. I don't get though what the Anthony's are supposed to have done to Casey to have made her kill her own child. Maybe you can explain it to me.

IMO, it's not so much what they DID to her, it's what they DIDN'T do. They never made her own up to any wrongdoing she was a part of. And, unfortunately, it's continuing now also, with the death of Caylee.

[Lavinia]

Now, cut him some slack. He's got depos to take about things that are unimportant, media appearances, etc. Oh, and toting coffee for LKB and checking the fax for AL.....

Loser.

I just can't cut any slack for that little weasel Spots. Sorry to let ya' down hon. I'll kiss a rattlesnake for you if it helps. :wub:

[summer]

The Anthonys are not the first people in the world who have a family member killed by another family member. And sadly they won't be the last.

They're not the only people who have suffered this kind of tragedy!!!!

I can't recall another time, ever, where a family has acted this way. I don't think we'll ever see this kind of behavior again either. It's just wacked.

[AnnieBell]

I'm curious, why? Because of their actions afterwards? What did they do to her before that was so damaging it would make her do this? She seemed perfectly rational out partying and whooping it up, covering her tracks all that time after .... so obviously they didn't drive her insane. How they're acting now imo can't really be an accurate prediction of how Casey was raised, because the situation they're in is just so abnormal. Nope, she owns it all. JMO

Why? Because of their actions after and before the child's death. These parents nurtured and supported the psycopathic narsassitic behavior. No they didn't drive her to insane, she was already there but they sure did feed it. Their situation is abnormal because they chose for it to be. By stating that Casey owns this act alone does this release any accountability from others who could have saved Caylee?

[kelloggirl]

Just finished reading the toxicology and forther testing on the car trunk items in this report. FINAL Forensic Report (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2009-06/47589408.pdf)

I admit that I was really skeptical about the choloroform evidence until I read this:

"Looking at the integrated areas under the peaks, the control carpet had approximately 10,270 area counts and the Florida trunk sample had approximately 386,200,000 area counts. 10ng of injected standard yielded an area count of approximately 8,240,000 indicating that the Florida trunk sample had an amount of chloroform present which was in the low parts per million range. Typical concentrations seen during human decompositional events of adults yields amounts in the low parts per trillion range.

...and...

Methanol extracts of the tire well scrapings showed many diverse compounds (Acetic acid, Octadecane, etc). Acetic acid (in an acid environment) and/or acetate ion (in an alkaline environment) are by-products of making chloroform with acetone and chlorine.

That trunk carpet was saturated with chloroform. IMO, Casey dumped chloroform all over the carpet, and put a duct taped Caylee in there, shut the trunk, and went on her merry way, IMO. Horrific.

[Imperfect4]

I know if I was in their shoes I'd run straight to the nearest hospital for meds because I couldn't handle it, so I won't presume to know what they were like raising Casey by judging their behaviour after learning their granddaughter was murdered by their own child. Cause and effect? It could go both ways.

They are who they are. Their character didn't change in the face of this nightmare. These are people in their 50's. Their characters were fixed and set decades ago. They are neither psychotic nor delusional, therefore, what we're seeing in their behavior today is simply an exaggeration of their behavior, normally.

[summer]

Just finished reading the toxicology and forther testing on the car trunk items in this report. FINAL Forensic Report (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2009-06/47589408.pdf)

I admit that I was really skeptical about the choloroform evidence until I read this:

"Looking at the integrated areas under the peaks, the control carpet had approximately 10,270 area counts and the Florida trunk sample had approximately 386,200,000 area counts. 10ng of injected standard yielded an area count of approximately 8,240,000 indicating that the Florida trunk sample had an amount of chloroform present which was in the low parts per million range. Typical concentrations seen during human decompositional events of adults yields amounts in the low parts per trillion range.

...and...

Methanol extracts of the tire well scrapings showed many diverse compounds (Acetic acid, Octadecane, etc). Acetic acid (in an acid environment) and/or acetate ion (in an alkaline environment) are by-products of making chloroform with acetone and chlorine.

That trunk carpet was saturated with chloroform. IMO, Casey dumped chloroform all over the carpet, and put a duct taped Caylee in there, shut the trunk, and went on her merry way, IMO. Horrific.

Wow. That hits me hard. I always felt she died in the trunk, although it's obviously just a feeling...

[Dunlurken]

The signs sure point that way to me.

Me too. sorry, just logging on for the day, but have been following the news as much as possible.

Did you guys already discuss the glitter and that statement "to small to be such trouble", or something like that? TIA

[True2Blues]

They may own part of it taking so long to get Casey arrested, I've never said otherwise. Part in Caylee's death? No. But I agree with another poster who said they will be blamed in court as they are here.

I don't blame the A's for the fact that Casey is a murderer. There's a kink in her make up somewhere. I do think they raised her to be the sociopath she is. I think they are sociopaths too. They raised her to believe she was entitled to do whatever she wanted, to have no sense of personal responsibility, and to be a liar.

I do blame them for obstructing justice, trying to derail an investigation, for pointing to innocent people and making unfounded accusations to take the heat off of Casey, for spewing vitriol at everyone, even people like Tim Miller, who came to help, and for throwing Caylee away again, so they could focus on their media careers and the person who I believe murdered Caylee in cold blood.

You can love your child and hate what they do. You can choose to believe everything they say, but to take part in obstruction and try to frame up innocent people? That's just going too far.

The way they act, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to learn that any, or all, of them helped dispose of the body after the fact.

[Imperfect4]

I could name you a dozen parents in ten seconds who didn't make their children accept responsibility when they should have. I can't name one of their children who's committed a crime. Fortunately, if the jury sees Casey as sane at the time and judges this case by the evidence, they'll place the blame where it belongs.

It was a perfect storm of terrible parenting and a terrible child. It is the parents' responsibility to take action with a terrible child. Casey gave them ample signals, signs and opportunity. They chose not to take it.

[farrahrani]

Is it also possible that Cindy or Casey panicked and tried to clean out the car with chloroform afterward? To possibly degrade or help remove smell of decomp evidence? After Cindy washed those shorts and refused to return the credit card statements I wouldn't put anything past her.

[summer]

Is it also possible that Cindy or Casey panicked and tried to clean out the car with chloroform afterward? To possibly degrade or help remove smell of decomp evidence? After Cindy washed those shorts and refused to return the credit card statements I wouldn't put anything past her.

I think that too. Both as a murder weapon and a cleanup.

[ttcRider]

OMG! Just now got on and WHOA!!!! BIG NEWS!!

I'm trying to catch up here, but got to the "grave wax" part. If the paper towels taken from the trash in the trunk had grave wax on them, wouldn't this mean that Caylee had been dead for at least a month in the car before being dumped? :scared:

On HLN they were saying that Caylee was in the truck for quite sometime before being put in the woods. I think this is all beginning to sound a lot like 'our' original theories. :crying: NG guests will be able to decifer it better for me I hope, I have a hard time understanding/reading the report.

[Lavinia]

An effort to what? She was fed, clothed, they obviously love her to the point they're making themselves look crazy defending her.

Feeding and clothing does not make a parent, IMO. WalMart can feed and clothe but I don't want them raising my baby. I think that's just it. They're making themselves crazy trying to defend the indefensible. They can very quietly let Casey know they love her but they don't love what she did. They need to just shut up. (I understand them now wanting to really fight since the DP is back on the table, but they were fighting justice when they thought she was going to get life. Do they really think she doesn't deserve life for what she did?)

[norwood]

Just finished reading the material released and sorry if this has been mentioned earlier as I didn't have time to read through all those posts to see, but this was the thing that jumped out at me in reading the autopsy stuff: In the section titled BONES pp. 3.

"A hair mat was noted on the base of the skull and grayish colored tape was noted COVERING THE MOUTH AND NASAL APERTURE AREAS."

Does that mean she wrapped not just Caylee's mouth with the duct tape, but also covered her nose so she couldn't breathe?

It means that to me. She did not just put a piece of duct tape over her mouth. She wrapped that child's head in it.

[denjet]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/06/casey-anthony-georges-tears-dont-wash-in-court.html


WFTV's Kathi Belich zeroed in on a central irony in coverage of the case. "George Anthony got very, very emotional as he tried to convince the judge that releasing the autopsy report would hurt his family even more," she said. "But the emotion disappeared when he was asked by a media attorney how many times the Anthonys have appeared on national television."


More at the link

Thanks happy! Ya gotta love Kathi! She certainly has a way with words and getting right to the point! :thumbsup:

[margaritaville]

Wouldn't suffocation then be the likely cause of death? What a repulsive thing to do. Murder is one thing, but I would think that she would have to hate this child A LOT to tape her and watch her struggle and suffocate. Or, maybe she taped her and shut her in the trunk so she wouldn't have to watch her or do anything beyond that. Maybe she and TonE were shopping for movies while she suffocated and tried to free herself. OMG!


I believe she did hate "the little snot head" a lot..
I think Casey blamed everything (including having to steal money) on caylee...And then to top everything off her new boyfriend told her he wants kids someday, but only boys!!

I believe that Casey's grandma said it perfectly......
Casey hated Cindy more then she loved Caylee.....And what would hurt Cindy the most in life?? no more Caylee.....
After the big fight where Cindy wrapped her hands around Casey throat...IMHO Casey stormed into the house grabbed Caylee put her in the car drove off.....Caylee was probably crying so Casey took out the duct tape....Pissed at the world she wrapped it around her head a few times tossed her in the trunk.....
Rumor had it that Casey was seen at a parking lot for a hotel pacing back and forth talking on her cell phone (prob to Tone)
Not thinking twice about her baby dying in the trunk........

All my opinion!

[bchand]

On HLN they were saying that Caylee was in the truck for quite sometime before being put in the woods. I think this is all beginning to sound a lot like 'our' original theories. :crying: NG guests will be able to decifer it better for me I hope, I have a hard time understanding/reading the report.

Unfortunately I think it may be a canned show tonight. She tapes her Friday night shows sometimes and this one is supposed to be on Cindy. Maybe they'll cut it short since the autospy report is out?

I've had my own gkids all day and will not look at the report til they're gone but am enjoying reading all your comments.

[Dunlurken]

You can love your child and hate what they do. You can choose to believe everything they say, but to take part in obstruction and try to frame up innocent people? That's just going too far.





Snipped to address: Especially when it's your three old grand daughter that was murdered. JMO. And they have the gall to explode into tirades when someone mentions Caylee's name.

George: I haven't heard my grand daughter's voice in a long time. Don't talk to me about her. One conflicted dude.

JMO.

[summer]

Feeding and clothing does not make a parent, IMO. WalMart can feed and clothe but I don't want them raising my baby. I think that's just it. They're making themselves crazy trying to defend the indefensible. They can very quietly let Casey know they love her but they don't love what she did. They need to just shut up. (I understand them now wanting to really fight since the DP is back on the table, but they were fighting justice when they thought she was going to get life. Do they really think she doesn't deserve life for what she did?)

"Oh sweetheart, you don't have to get a job." Remember that from a jailhouse convo?

Nope. They don't think she deserves to be in jail at all. IMO. :wub:

(funny, I always feel like kissing Lavinia!)

[Dunlurken]

I am assuming that the Anthony's had already seen the autopsy reports. Am I assuming wrong?

[Unleashed]

I've seen GA's performance on HLN about 26 billion times today, and I am about to throw up.
How does the release of the autopsy report 'tarnish Caylee's memory' to the public?

Anybody?

[Buttoneyes]

I believe she did hate "the little snot head" a lot..
I think Casey blamed everything (including having to steal money) on caylee...And then to top everything off her new boyfriend told her he wants kids someday, but only boys!!

I believe that Casey's grandma said it perfectly......
Casey hated Cindy more then she loved Caylee.....And what would hurt Cindy the most in life?? no more Caylee.....
After the big fight where Cindy wrapped her hands around Casey throat...IMHO Casey stormed into the house grabbed Caylee put her in the car drove off.....Caylee was probably crying so Casey took out the duct tape....Pissed at the world she wrapped it around her head a few times tossed her in the trunk.....
Rumor had it that Casey was seen at a parking lot for a hotel pacing back and forth talking on her cell phone (prob to Tone)
Not thinking twice about her baby dying in the trunk........

All my opinion!

Unfortunately, what you surmise makes sense to me too. To not kill in a fit of white hot anger, but to wrap her head and let her suffocate is beyond hideous, beyond understanding, to do to any child, let alone your own.

[jammies]

So if there was a time delay before Casey removed the baby from the home wouldn't Cindy and especially George who stated that he was meticulous(sic) about his yard work have not noticied something like odor, disturbed grass or dirt. And where did the car sit after Casey threw Caylee into the swamp before it was towed? Would there have been an odor then?


See that's what I find so difficult to swallow. Teeny, tiny backyard and they don't NOTICE a freakin' GRAVE?? At the time they wouldn't have known Caylee was "missing" so I'm going to assume they went about their daily chores, lawn maintenance etc. How could they have MISSED a chunk of their yard dug up?

[Dunlurken]

The Anthony's aren't responsible for the death of Caylee. Furthermore, no one on this forum can say with any degree of certainty that the Anthony's did or didn't, could have and didn't do anything which would have prevented this tragedy, as we have only seen a small window into their lives. We don't know if Cindy had sought help for Casey as she grew up. Perhaps their private insurance didn't cover mental health issues, and she wasn't qualified for state assistance due to Cindy's income. The only thing the Anthony's did wrong was to provide a warm and loving home for Caylee and Casey. What else could they have done? NOTHING.

IMO..OF COURSE
They could have called LE before 31 days passed. They could have met this Zanny the Nanny if they doubted Casey's credibility. They could have done lots. Like Insisted that Caylee be at home in her own bed every night, not sleeping at every Tom, Dick and Harry's house. JMO.

[ttcRider]

Unfortunately I think it may be a canned show tonight. She tapes her Friday night shows sometimes and this one is supposed to be on Cindy. Maybe they'll cut it short since the autospy report is out?

I've had my own gkids all day and will not look at the report til they're gone but am enjoying reading all your comments.

HLN said that NG would be covering it tonight (may not be NG herself but a guest). I think that the Cindy Show was just filler and now that this is out they will have something to cover.

[Lavinia]

"Oh sweetheart, you don't have to get a job." Remember that from a jailhouse convo?

Nope. They don't think she deserves to be in jail at all. IMO. :wub:

(funny, I always feel like kissing Lavinia!)

Hubba Hubba, Momma! :loveeyes:

(Yes, it's krap like that about the job. And Casey's "the boss" :rolleyes:. That kind of krap in the face of what's going on here, makes a monster, IMO.)

[True2Blues]

The Anthony's aren't responsible for the death of Caylee. Furthermore, no one on this forum can say with any degree of certainty that the Anthony's did or didn't, could have and didn't do anything which would have prevented this tragedy, as we have only seen a small window into their lives. We don't know if Cindy had sought help for Casey as she grew up. Perhaps their private insurance didn't cover mental health issues, and she wasn't qualified for state assistance due to Cindy's income. The only thing the Anthony's did wrong was to provide a warm and loving home for Caylee and Casey. What else could they have done? NOTHING.

IMO..OF COURSE

Actually, if no one can say anything about what went on inside the Anthony home with certainty, that includes claiming that it was a warm and loving home. If we don't know, neither do you.

Besides, we are stating what our opinions are, and we can all do that. Whether we think the home was loving or not.

[Lavinia]

And you know what their parenting was like ...... how?

Because of how they're reacting now? Do you really believe they thought she was capable of this?

On the surface I would agree with you, then I hear the folks who discuss the paver issue and have to agree with them. I wouldn't look under my pavers if anything in my house went missing, especially a human. Makes me HAVE to wonder.

[Imperfect4]

And you know what their parenting was like ...... how?

Because of how they're reacting now? Do you really believe they thought she was capable of this?

These people have weak characters, and no apparent moral compass. I've never met a person of bad character, lacking in morality, who made a good parent.

I don't think they expected her to do what she's accused of. I think they had ample evidence she was capable of terrible things. And again, they chose to enable and cover, rather than to at least make an effort to deal productively with the problem.

[bchand]

HLN said that NG would be covering it tonight (may not be NG herself but a guest). I think that the Cindy Show was just filler and now that this is out they will have something to cover.

ty ttc, that's great news.