June 15th thru 8/4

[cherylt]

Per CW's request, here is a new thread for this week.

I'm sure many of you talked about this already, but his story always sounded fishy to me. And is probably why it did not take that long to arrest this maniac! How in he world can you strangle 3 members of your family, with two of them YOUR OWN KIDS? I know rational people can never understand the irrational mind of a psychopath but FGS, as MANY have said, D-I-V-O-R-C-E !

imo - I also thought he was creepy form day 1 too. I guess he must have had a charming side at some point, but some times you can just tell when someone is off...

Anyone know when the next court hearing (pretrial or other motions) will be?

[darcie]

Thanks for the new thread!

I have posted search warrant documents previously on the other thread, but this link shows ALL search warrants, 73 pages. It's kinda nice that they are linked all together.

http://www.fox2now.com/media/acrobat/2009-05/47161772.pdf

[desmom]

Updated: Chris Coleman's home near foreclosure
http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov-st-louis-news-090615-coleman-court.823acf7b.html

WARNING MATERIAL GRAPHIC IN NATURE: View entire court records
http://www.kmov.com/news/colemanwarrant.pdf

ETA ~ Update: Judge OKs Coleman home sale
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/D934C657188776DA862575D6005B89C4?OpenDocument

[cherylt]

Wow - thanks desmom & darcie. Awesome links to dive into!

:thumbsup:

[KittyMom]

Updated: Chris Coleman's home near foreclosure
http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov-st-louis-news-090615-coleman-court.823acf7b.html

WARNING MATERIAL GRAPHIC IN NATURE: View entire court records
http://www.kmov.com/news/colemanwarrant.pdf

ETA ~ Update: Judge OKs Coleman home sale
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/D934C657188776DA862575D6005B89C4?OpenDocument

Thanks, des! Very interesting reading. Motive and lots of potential clues!

[Ice Cycle]

Thanks, des! Very interesting reading. Motive and lots of potential clues!

Since it appears they previously cashed out when the loan was put in his name their will probably not be any proceeds but debt especially if it is going to foreclosure sale. Glad her family does get her/their belongings though.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/D934C657188776DA862575D6005B89C4?OpenDocument
The order, filed today in Monroe County, states that Sheri Coleman's mother is allowed to enter the couple's former home in Columbia and “secure, inventory and remove” items of personal property of her daughter's and grandchildren.

Sheri Coleman, 31, and her sons Gavin, 9 and Garett, 11, were found strangled May 5. Chris Coleman, the surviving husband and father, was arrested last month for their murders. He is currently jailed and awaiting trial.

Proceeds from the sale of the home are ordered to be deposited in a trust account of Sheri Coleman's family's attorney.

[darcie]

http://www.bnd.com/homepage/story/808876.html

But Sheri Coleman remained on the $230,850 mortgage for the same house. The original mortgage on the home in 2005 was $202,269. The new mortgage would have reflected between $28,000 and $30,000 in cash equity that would have been taken from the home, Carey has said.

Carey and Chicago attorney Enrico Mirabelli, Sheri's cousin, said they will investigate what happened to the equity as the lawsuit proceeds.

[Ice Cycle]

http://www.bnd.com/homepage/story/808876.html

But Sheri Coleman remained on the $230,850 mortgage for the same house. The original mortgage on the home in 2005 was $202,269. The new mortgage would have reflected between $28,000 and $30,000 in cash equity that would have been taken from the home, Carey has said.

Carey and Chicago attorney Enrico Mirabelli, Sheri's cousin, said they will investigate what happened to the equity as the lawsuit proceeds.

So she was on the Mortgage but not the deed, as I said I have heard it done the other way around on the deed but not Mortgage (if non working). Wonder if any $ was in a savings account anywhere? Surly her parents would know if they had done any remodeling or purchased something big.

[Leanne Weich]

Sounds like Chris was clever in getting her to sign a quit claim - he could deal with the property as he wished yet she'd still be financially responsible.

[Ninja108]

Psycho/sociopaths have no feelings of love, caring or compassion. Their families mean nothing to them. When these men (and in rarer cases women),get tired of their current life and wish to start a new one, killing their spouse/family means nothing to them. To them, it's the best way to start a new life, by wiping the slate clean. Their feelings are the only ones that matter, loved ones of the victim(s) be damned.
Coleman fits this profile perfectly and sadly the family will have to sit through a trial, because like all psychopaths,Coleman will NEVER admit he did it. If there's any justice, he'll kick the bucket before trial and spare everyone the ordeal of a trial.

[Musterion]

Updated: Chris Coleman's home near foreclosure
http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov-st-louis-news-090615-coleman-court.823acf7b.html

WARNING MATERIAL GRAPHIC IN NATURE: View entire court records
http://www.kmov.com/news/colemanwarrant.pdf

ETA ~ Update: Judge OKs Coleman home sale
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/D934C657188776DA862575D6005B89C4?OpenDocument

Good morning, Desmom!

How are you doing?!

Thank you for the links.

Do you know, or anyone, if Chris' pastor has been to see him in jail?

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I'm not sure if these have been posted yet.

http://community.fox2now.com/_Chris-Coleman-hearing-details/BLOG/343509/96301.html?widgetId=158902

http://www.kmov.com/perl/common/slideshow/sspop.pl?recid=16533&nextimage=0

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Psycho/sociopaths have no feelings of love, caring or compassion. Their families mean nothing to them. When these men (and in rarer cases women),get tired of their current life and wish to start a new one, killing their spouse/family means nothing to them. To them, it's the best way to start a new life, by wiping the slate clean. Their feelings are the only ones that matter, loved ones of the victim(s) be damned.
Coleman fits this profile perfectly and sadly the family will have to sit through a trial, because like all psychopaths,Coleman will NEVER admit he did it. If there's any justice, he'll kick the bucket before trial and spare everyone the ordeal of a trial.

You are right about sociopaths.

I am wondering if there is any more information on Chris and his past behaviours, relationships.

The only material I have read reported that he was a good, decent and kind man, according to people who knew him. Friends and people he went to school with, IIRC.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Sounds like Chris was clever in getting her to sign a quit claim - he could deal with the property as he wished yet she'd still be financially responsible.

Hi Leanne,

It is all overwhelming, isn't it? Unfathomable.

I'm sure people that love Sheri and the boys and even Chris cannot wrap their minds and hearts around what has happened the last five weeks or so. A whirlwind of grief.

Prayers for all of them.

IMO.
M.

[Deannalynn]

Sounds like Chris was clever in getting her to sign a quit claim - he could deal with the property as he wished yet she'd still be financially responsible.

What confuses me (at this point in time) is the fact that Chris would bother having Sheri sign a quick claim. What for if he planned to murder her. No need. Just sayin.:shrug:
JMO

[Debb]

You are right about sociopaths.

I am wondering if there is any more information on Chris and his past behaviours, relationships.

The only material I have read reported that he was a good, decent and kind man, according to people who knew him. Friends and people he went to school with, IIRC.

IMO.
M.

I'm not surprised if he had many people fooled. Often times sociopaths are well known for their kindness and good nature within the community. What few people know is what the person is like behind closed doors. It's like they have an evil twin. They only let certain people see the evil side. This allows them to use people and manipulate. Not all of them kill people, but they don't really have any objection to doing whatever they have to in order to get what they want. Some don't even let the spouse see them, until it's too late.

They are actually very self-absorbed. They believe everyone should believe anything they say simply because they say it. It is unconceivable that someone should call then on a lie or prove they are lying.

I'm a Dexter fan too, but most of what I learned about sociopaths, besides doing research, was dating one. LOL. If you took a poll among this guy's co-workers, neighbors, college friends, etc., they would say he was a great guy, give you the shirt off his back, always offers a kind word with a smile. They didn't know the how he really was. This is why I can't stand it when people step up to defend defendants and say the person is incapable of committing the crime because they are such a good person. YOu just don't know that.

[Ice Cycle]

What confuses me (at this point in time) is the fact that Chris would bother having Sheri sign a quick claim. What for if he planned to murder her. No need. Just sayin.:shrug:
JMO

Yeah that has been puzzling to me also, the only thing I can think as I posted previously is maybe he though their would be less probate issues if in his name only. Even if he was contemplating divorce back then he surly did not think that would eliminate her off any further equity, as divorce judges usually don't recognize who's name it is in unless it was purchased prior to marriage (as a marriage asset as well as the Mortgage being a married debt). Probably will never know what the reason was.

[Leanne Weich]

What confuses me (at this point in time) is the fact that Chris would bother having Sheri sign a quick claim. What for if he planned to murder her. No need. Just sayin.:shrug:
JMO

I'm not sure that Chris' initial intention was to annihilate his whole family. I think he probably thought he could get the quit claim signed, divorce Sherri and keep the home. When he found out that that was not how it was going to work out, I think he went to plan "B". JMHO.

[Leanne Weich]

Hi Leanne,

It is all overwhelming, isn't it? Unfathomable.

I'm sure people that love Sheri and the boys and even Chris cannot wrap their minds and hearts around what has happened the last five weeks or so. A whirlwind of grief.

Prayers for all of them.

IMO.
M.

Hey M. This is one of those cases that even if we had all the knowledge of what was going on in Chris' head, it would still not make any sense even if we could think in a depraved manner.

My heart breaks for Sheri's family. This has to be the most agonizing thing one could ever go through. Chris' family's reaction in Court left me shaking my head and, to be honest, I did wonder if they are such cold and compassionless people, how much that played into Chris' psychopathy. Not making excuses for him but, hell, I've never heard of a pastor who behaves in this way. I just can't believe a grandparent can have so little regard for their grandchildren - seems they're cut from the same cloth as the Anthonys - tragic.

[Musterion]

"Belleville Attorney Jack Carey is helping Sheri's family find everything Chris Coleman owned. The preliminary hearing revealed Coleman had a secret cell phone and a secret credit card with his mistress. Now the Weiss family (Sheri's side) wants to know about money Chris Coleman may have raised right after the murders of Sheri and their two kids.

Attorney Carey said, "They were soliciting at the wake and they were soliciting at the service --you know, contributions or funds for poor Christopher Coleman."

Carey said they found this out recently from one contributor who is not happy."

http://www.fox2now.com/ktvi-coleman-murders-husband-money-061609,0,4180665.story

"It's obvious Chris Coleman and his Mom and Dad have lots of support because at least 13 friends and/or church members came to the preliminary hearing. I wrote about this in an earlier blog and one viewer was upset of my mention that the Coleman's were smiling and sometimes laughing before the hearing. Because cameras were not allowed in the court room, we do not have video proof, but I explained it further to this viewer later. I made no judgments about the smiling/ laughing. It's just what I saw. It wasn't just for a minute or two, but it was a vibe that lasted about 45 minutes prior to the hearing. I also really noticed it because Sheri's family was very silent and somber -- a direct contrast. It's also important to consider that the Colemans, having such a large group of people surrounding them, were dealing with the stress by talking about other things. For instance, an intern who was with me that morning said two Coleman supporters near her talked about shopping the entire time.

Everything seemed to change during and then after last week's preliminary hearing. I could not see much reaction from anyone. And it was apparently the details from this preliminary hearing that caused a contributor to Chris Coleman's fund to regret it."

http://community.fox2now.com/_Fundraiser-for-Chris-Coleman/blog/373003/96301.html

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Hey M. This is one of those cases that even if we had all the knowledge of what was going on in Chris' head, it would still not make any sense even if we could think in a depraved manner.

My heart breaks for Sheri's family. This has to be the most agonizing thing one could ever go through. Chris' family's reaction in Court left me shaking my head and, to be honest, I did wonder if they are such cold and compassionless people, how much that played into Chris' psychopathy. Not making excuses for him but, hell, I've never heard of a pastor who behaves in this way. I just can't believe a grandparent can have so little regard for their grandchildren - seems they're cut from the same cloth as the Anthonys - tragic.

I'm with you on heartbreaking for Sheri's family. Every picture I see of her brother breaks my heart. He is broken and grief stricken and I pray he can walk through this, as hard as it is. I cannot even imagine in my worst nightmare....

I haven't seen anything or heard anything, directly, from Sheri's mother. But, being a mom myself, nothing could ever get me through losing my baby and her babies. God would have to walk me through each day on earth with His gentleness and grace because without that, without Him, I'd probably join those babies by my own hand. :sad:

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

http://suburbanjournals.stltoday.com/articles/2009/06/16/monroe/news/0617cla-repasz0.txt

IMO.
M.

Sheri :rose:
Gavin :rose:
Garett: :rose:

[Leanne Weich]

I'm with you on heartbreaking for Sheri's family. Every picture I see of her brother breaks my heart. He is broken and grief stricken and I pray he can walk through this, as hard as it is. I cannot even imagine in my worst nightmare....

I haven't seen anything or heard anything, directly, from Sheri's mother. But, being a mom myself, nothing could ever get me through losing my baby and her babies. God would have to walk me through each day on earth with His gentleness and grace because without that, without Him, I'd probably join those babies by my own hand. :sad:

IMO.
M.

M< ITA with your entire post. My 1st g/d died 1 1/2 days after she was born - while I was on my way to meet her. It damn near killed me even though I never got to see her alive. Had I had had years to have known her, I have no doubt I wouldn't be here typing right now.

The last link you posted about the 2 young kids' fundraising is just too precious for words.

[Musterion]

M< ITA with your entire post. My 1st g/d died 1 1/2 days after she was born - while I was on my way to meet her. It damn near killed me even though I never got to see her alive. Had I had had years to have known her, I have no doubt I wouldn't be here typing right now.

The last link you posted about the 2 young kids' fundraising is just too precious for words.

Ohhhh...I'm so sorry Leanne. You've had your share of grief, my friend.

We, humans, were not built for death, IMO. It is foreign to us and, even though it happens every day, our spirits repel and cannot accept the finality of what seems the cessation of life.

IMO.
M.

[darcie]

Many people have commented on the *no-divorce* policy At JM Ministries. Seems they hire people that HAVE been divorced, but fire people if they are GOING through a divorce while employed. I dont mean to portray that is always the case, although that is what the article basically states. I don't know that it is a written rule for JMM, it is obviously an assumed rule.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/columnists.nsf/keepthefaith/story/5BB1245EEE3DEE1C862575D40008AD3E?OpenDocument

Coleman case brings up question of evangelical divorce

Three former employees of the ministry described the no-divorce policy for the Post-Dispatch, though they couldn't say whether it was a written rule, or just an ingrained part of the Joyce Meyer Ministries culture. They said that people who have already gone through a divorce can be hired to work at the ministry, but that anyone divorced while working at the ministry is let go.

[dgfred]

I thought there were several stipulations of what was allowed during a divorce, but certain things were not like adultery. confused dgfred.

[Ice Cycle]

I thought there were several stipulations of what was allowed during a divorce, but certain things were not like adultery. confused dgfred.

Their is obviously some truth to it but how much is the questions since JMM will not speak on the issue- which is suspicious. It personally seems like it would be unlawful to be able to fire someone because of that but due to it being a religious organization it might not be. However even if so they surly would not try to use that as a defense if he is responsible for murdering his children and wife.

[darcie]

"There is no law in Missouri that forbids discrimination on the basis of marital status," said Mary Anne Sedey, an employment attorney at Sedey Harper.

Eric Sowers, an employment attorney at Sowers & Wolf, said he'd never heard of anyone at a secular organization fired over marital status. He said religious organizations are exempt from the Missouri Human Rights Act. Wilcox said the First Amendment gives religious institutions wide latitude "to shape their employment policies so they're consistent with their religious teachings."

-----

The above is snipped from the link posted above. It doesn't sound legal, but I guess if there is a *DIVORCE RULE* inside JMM, it's legal in the State of Missouri.

[darcie]

Coleman lawyers ask for new judge

Defense attorneys for Chris Coleman have asked for a new judge to preside over the case.

The murder case, which has generated national headlines, is presently assigned to Monroe County Judge Dennis Doyle.

In Illinois, defendants have an automatic right to a new judge if they argue their current judge is so prejudiced against the defendant that it will hinder a fair trial. The move for a new judge is common in Illinois.

The prosecution also has a right to make the same request.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/5B0F3E46CC7F480C862575D900618781?OpenDocument

[Topher]

They want a new judge? The only thing that would allow the defense to win at trial would be a new defendant...

[darcie]

:They want a new judge? The only thing that would allow the defense to win at trial would be a new defendant...

:lol::lol:

[NatalieB]

They want a new judge? The only thing that would allow the defense to win at trial would be a new defendant...

:laugh:

If this turns out to be policy at JMM, I find it appalling that they'd fire someone who was getting divorced, but had no qualms about hiring a registered sex offender who was a minister at the time of the arrest.

The more I learn about this ministry, the more troubled it makes me.

[sunstar]

Coleman lawyers ask for new judge

Defense attorneys for Chris Coleman have asked for a new judge to preside over the case.

The murder case, which has generated national headlines, is presently assigned to Monroe County Judge Dennis Doyle.

In Illinois, defendants have an automatic right to a new judge if they argue their current judge is so prejudiced against the defendant that it will hinder a fair trial. The move for a new judge is common in Illinois.

The prosecution also has a right to make the same request.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/5B0F3E46CC7F480C862575D900618781?OpenDocument

What exactly is their complaint about this judge though? :confused:

[dgfred]

Evidently they think this judge will have undue prejudice against him already... hoping to get a slacker judge or just hoping in general.

[sunstar]

Evidently they think this judge will have undue prejudice against him already... hoping to get a slacker judge or just hoping in general.
thanks ~ it sounds like CC & his defense might be just a little paranoid about a certain conviction, and probably rightly so. :smile: MOO

[bkwits]

I've just returned from a trip to St. Louis. My route takes me on I-255 across the Jefferson Barracks bridge. I needed gas before I got to STL so I drove to a station in Columbia, IL, just a couple of miles out of my way. I passed a sign that said Columbia Lakes (the subdivision where the Coleman house is). That subdv is north of town and very, very close to JB bridge. Since I was going to my sis's (who lives about 1/2 mile from the gym), I clocked it at about 13 minutes. There was a fair amount of traffic.

[darcie]

Sunstar, now we get to wonder about two judges??:cursing: Kinda interesting. Not real sure what has taken place--or een said? or maybe this is just the first of many stall tactics? Since this all has enfolded, I always figured CC would work out some kind of plea deal, and it would never really go to trial. But maybe they think, what they heck? Give it a try.

But as bkwits just posted (thank you kindly), the time line pretty well fits. CC leaves home at 5:43, and if I remember right, they have him on surveillance video at the gym at 6:00 a.m. 17 minutes. They view him going in to the bathroom, but that is all? I don't think it was ever reported that he actually worked out. I figure the gym has a shower, I wondered if he would have took a long hot shower, get himself together, before making the call to the LE (neighbor). I am also curious if he left the house in the same clothes which he returned an hour later in?

CC just didn't leave alot to work with for a defense in my thoughts. The threatening letters stem from a computer he used, the timeline fits, the g/f-fiance scenario, debt up to his eyeballs apparently. he appears to be just another grown up spoiled brat that wants his way!!

I kinda got sidetracked, lol. I was just going to post the update of the judge situation.


Updated

The motion by Chris Coleman's defense attorneys to replace the judge presiding over the triple murder case was granted today.

Two judges -- Circuit Judge Dennis Doyle and Circuit Judge Dennis Hatch -- were disqualified from hearing the case.

"The defendant has reason to believe that Judge Doyle and Judge Dennis Hatch are so prejudiced against him that he cannot receive a fair trial,'' said the motion filed today by William Margulis, Coleman's defense attorney.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/5B0F3E46CC7F480C862575D900618781?OpenDocument

[Musterion]

Sunstar, now we get to wonder about two judges??:cursing: Kinda interesting. Not real sure what has taken place--or een said? or maybe this is just the first of many stall tactics? Since this all has enfolded, I always figured CC would work out some kind of plea deal, and it would never really go to trial. But maybe they think, what they heck? Give it a try.

But as bkwits just posted (thank you kindly), the time line pretty well fits. CC leaves home at 5:43, and if I remember right, they have him on surveillance video at the gym at 6:00 a.m. 17 minutes. They view him going in to the bathroom, but that is all? I don't think it was ever reported that he actually worked out. I figure the gym has a shower, I wondered if he would have took a long hot shower, get himself together, before making the call to the LE (neighbor). I am also curious if he left the house in the same clothes which he returned an hour later in?

CC just didn't leave alot to work with for a defense in my thoughts. The threatening letters stem from a computer he used, the timeline fits, the g/f-fiance scenario, debt up to his eyeballs apparently. he appears to be just another grown up spoiled brat that wants his way!!

I kinda got sidetracked, lol. I was just going to post the update of the judge situation.


Updated

The motion by Chris Coleman's defense attorneys to replace the judge presiding over the triple murder case was granted today.

Two judges -- Circuit Judge Dennis Doyle and Circuit Judge Dennis Hatch -- were disqualified from hearing the case.

"The defendant has reason to believe that Judge Doyle and Judge Dennis Hatch are so prejudiced against him that he cannot receive a fair trial,'' said the motion filed today by William Margulis, Coleman's defense attorney.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/5B0F3E46CC7F480C862575D900618781?OpenDocument

Hi darcie!

Thanks for the info! :)

Looks like 'standard procedure'.

"Substitution of judge. (a) Within 10 days after a cause involving only one defendant has been placed on the trial call of a judge the defendant may move the court in writing for a substitution of that judge on the ground that such judge is so prejudiced against him that he cannot receive a fair trial. Upon the filing of such a motion the court shall proceed no further in the cause but shall transfer it to another judge not named in the motion. The defendant may name only one judge as prejudiced, pursuant to this subsection; provided, however, that in a case in which the offense charged is a Class X felony or may be punished by death or life imprisonment, the defendant may name two judges as prejudiced."

(Bolding Mine)

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=072500050K114-5

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Sunstar, now we get to wonder about two judges??:cursing: Kinda interesting. Not real sure what has taken place--or een said? or maybe this is just the first of many stall tactics? Since this all has enfolded, I always figured CC would work out some kind of plea deal, and it would never really go to trial. But maybe they think, what they heck? Give it a try.

But as bkwits just posted (thank you kindly), the time line pretty well fits. CC leaves home at 5:43, and if I remember right, they have him on surveillance video at the gym at 6:00 a.m. 17 minutes. They view him going in to the bathroom, but that is all? I don't think it was ever reported that he actually worked out. I figure the gym has a shower, I wondered if he would have took a long hot shower, get himself together, before making the call to the LE (neighbor). I am also curious if he left the house in the same clothes which he returned an hour later in?

CC just didn't leave alot to work with for a defense in my thoughts. The threatening letters stem from a computer he used, the timeline fits, the g/f-fiance scenario, debt up to his eyeballs apparently. he appears to be just another grown up spoiled brat that wants his way!!

I kinda got sidetracked, lol. I was just going to post the update of the judge situation.


Updated

The motion by Chris Coleman's defense attorneys to replace the judge presiding over the triple murder case was granted today.

Two judges -- Circuit Judge Dennis Doyle and Circuit Judge Dennis Hatch -- were disqualified from hearing the case.

"The defendant has reason to believe that Judge Doyle and Judge Dennis Hatch are so prejudiced against him that he cannot receive a fair trial,'' said the motion filed today by William Margulis, Coleman's defense attorney.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/5B0F3E46CC7F480C862575D900618781?OpenDocument

Those are good questions. Did he work out??? Did he just shower? What was he wearing?

IMO. If I was the defense, I would take it to trial. I would figure, as you say, what the heck. They have nothing to lose. Plea deal only means life versus death.

I don't think it is a slam dunk case. To us, it is. Within the realm of 'legaleze' I think that reasonable doubt can be, and will most likely be, heavily displayed in the court room.

As for time of death. Dr. Baden will be disputed. And, if I was the defense, I'd call experts in Cadaveric Spasm. Cadaveric Spasm
occurs under extremely violent physical and emotional circumstances.

As a matter of fact, Dr. Baden, himself says:

"What is cadaveric spasm? Have you ever seen it?

"Cadaveric spasm" refers to a kind of instant rigor mortis. After we die, the muscles of the body stiffen, from using up its oxygen supply and because wastes - carbon dioxide and urea - are no longer brought away from the muscle cells. It also has to do with the depletion of muscle enzymes. So, cadaveric spasm is a muscle phenomenon in which some muscles of the body become stiff instantly, rather than in the usual two to eight hours normal rigor takes to develop. The reason for such rapid rigor mortis, usually, is the extreme exertion of the muscles during the act of dying, especially as can happen during a struggle."

http://www.hbo.com/autopsy/baden/qa_5.html

At trial, as a defense attorney, I would dismiss his TOD and bring attention to the struggle that Sheri had with her killer before death, hence, 'cadaveric spasm'.

Children and the elderly do not have muscle mass, which affects the onset of rigor.

I believe the defense, if they are good, and from what I've heard Chris' attorneys are the best, may use some of these 'reasonable doubt' techniques.

IMO.
M.

[CarolinaStar]

They want a new judge? The only thing that would allow the defense to win at trial would be a new defendant... You hit the nail on the head!

[kelloggirl]

Those are good questions. Did he work out??? Did he just shower? What was he wearing?

IMO. If I was the defense, I would take it to trial. I would figure, as you say, what the heck. They have nothing to lose. Plea deal only means life versus death.

I don't think it is a slam dunk case. To us, it is. Within the realm of 'legaleze' I think that reasonable doubt can be, and will most likely be, heavily displayed in the court room.

As for time of death. Dr. Baden will be disputed. And, if I was the defense, I'd call experts in Cadaveric Spasm. Cadaveric Spasm
occurs under extremely violent physical and emotional circumstances.

As a matter of fact, Dr. Baden, himself says:

"What is cadaveric spasm? Have you ever seen it?

"Cadaveric spasm" refers to a kind of instant rigor mortis. After we die, the muscles of the body stiffen, from using up its oxygen supply and because wastes - carbon dioxide and urea - are no longer brought away from the muscle cells. It also has to do with the depletion of muscle enzymes. So, cadaveric spasm is a muscle phenomenon in which some muscles of the body become stiff instantly, rather than in the usual two to eight hours normal rigor takes to develop. The reason for such rapid rigor mortis, usually, is the extreme exertion of the muscles during the act of dying, especially as can happen during a struggle."

http://www.hbo.com/autopsy/baden/qa_5.html

At trial, as a defense attorney, I would dismiss his TOD and bring attention to the struggle that Sheri had with her killer before death, hence, 'cadaveric spasm'.

Children and the elderly do not have muscle mass, which affects the onset of rigor.

I believe the defense, if they are good, and from what I've heard Chris' attorneys are the best, may use some of these 'reasonable doubt' techniques.

IMO.
M.

Very well-thought out response and ironic, considering Baden will likely testify for the State in this case and this could be used against him. With high-profile cases, expert witnesses for sale to the highest bidder, and juries who expect CSI-level damning DNA evidence, I agree that there is no such thing as a slam-dunk case in this day and age.

That said, I think this is about as close as you can get. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

[darcie]

Morning M!!

As usual, when it seems cases are pretty simple and obvious, they never are. I like you have heard CC's attornies are top notch~~So you are right, I'm sure they will find lots of things to plant the reasonable doubt.

I TRY to follow cases, but works and daily life always gets me sidelined so I tend to miss things. I have never even heard of 'cadaveric spasm'.:confused: And after reading your link, you are probabably right about it being tossed out there to muddy the waters. I really wish Baden wouldn't have been called in. For some reason that guy just makes me nervous when he enters the picture. He flaps his jaws to much.

I will say that the Marguils are pretty tight lipped. Sure haven't heard much from them! Or the Coleman family for that matter. If I ever get time, I am going to see what kind of *big* cases they have worked on.

I do wonder what else LE has. I'm really curious to see if Sheri had CC DNA under her nails. But with being married, I guess there is some kind of monkey wrench the Defense could throw out there to muddy the waters for that also.

The Belleville News had an article about the judges also. Not much different than the link I posted earlier, except a creepy looking picture of CC. He looks *evil* in this one. I might have saw it before, and dismissed it, but today it gives me the creeps!

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/813310.html

I quess 1 trial will be held for all three murders? or will they try them seperately? Any ideas?

[Amy]

Morning M!!

As usual, when it seems cases are pretty simple and obvious, they never are. I like you have heard CC's attornies are top notch~~So you are right, I'm sure they will find lots of things to plant the reasonable doubt.

I TRY to follow cases, but works and daily life always gets me sidelined so I tend to miss things. I have never even heard of 'cadaveric spasm'.:confused: And after reading your link, you are probabably right about it being tossed out there to muddy the waters. I really wish Baden wouldn't have been called in. For some reason that guy just makes me nervous when he enters the picture. He flaps his jaws to much.

I will say that the Marguils are pretty tight lipped. Sure haven't heard much from them! Or the Coleman family for that matter. If I ever get time, I am going to see what kind of *big* cases they have worked on.

I do wonder what else LE has. I'm really curious to see if Sheri had CC DNA under her nails. But with being married, I guess there is some kind of monkey wrench the Defense could throw out there to muddy the waters for that also.

The Belleville News had an article about the judges also. Not much different than the link I posted earlier, except a creepy looking picture of CC. He looks *evil* in this one. I might have saw it before, and dismissed it, but today it gives me the creeps!

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/813310.html

I quess 1 trial will be held for all three murders? or will they try them seperately? Any ideas?

@ first blush, I tho't, since it is obvious they all died @ the same time, or in the same incident, he would be tried @ once for all 3. They would give him a sentence for each count.

Then, I tho't of Darlie Routier. They only tried her for one of the boys' murder. If I understand it correctly, that was done so that if she didn't get enough of a sentence for the first one, or perhaps wasn't found guilty, whatever might come up, they could always then go back and try her for the other.

So, guess this one is a wait and see. I haven't followed cases in that area, so don't know how it is usually done there.

[NatalieB]

Those are good questions. Did he work out??? Did he just shower? What was he wearing?

IMO. If I was the defense, I would take it to trial. I would figure, as you say, what the heck. They have nothing to lose. Plea deal only means life versus death.

I don't think it is a slam dunk case. To us, it is. Within the realm of 'legaleze' I think that reasonable doubt can be, and will most likely be, heavily displayed in the court room.

As for time of death. Dr. Baden will be disputed. And, if I was the defense, I'd call experts in Cadaveric Spasm. Cadaveric Spasm
occurs under extremely violent physical and emotional circumstances.

As a matter of fact, Dr. Baden, himself says:

"What is cadaveric spasm? Have you ever seen it?

"Cadaveric spasm" refers to a kind of instant rigor mortis. After we die, the muscles of the body stiffen, from using up its oxygen supply and because wastes - carbon dioxide and urea - are no longer brought away from the muscle cells. It also has to do with the depletion of muscle enzymes. So, cadaveric spasm is a muscle phenomenon in which some muscles of the body become stiff instantly, rather than in the usual two to eight hours normal rigor takes to develop. The reason for such rapid rigor mortis, usually, is the extreme exertion of the muscles during the act of dying, especially as can happen during a struggle."

http://www.hbo.com/autopsy/baden/qa_5.html

At trial, as a defense attorney, I would dismiss his TOD and bring attention to the struggle that Sheri had with her killer before death, hence, 'cadaveric spasm'.

Children and the elderly do not have muscle mass, which affects the onset of rigor.

I believe the defense, if they are good, and from what I've heard Chris' attorneys are the best, may use some of these 'reasonable doubt' techniques.

IMO.
M.

The defense can attempt to attack the TOD, but I think, if they want to hold any creditability with jurors at all, they'd better not attempt to insult their intelligence by tossing out wild theories. Yes, it's true, that body temperature is based on many variables that opens it up for debate. Yes it's true that rigor doesn't set in the same with everyone after death. Yes, it's also true that lividity doesn't have a set chart for everyone either. Combine them together however and you can get a pretty good idea of the TOD. Remember too, that while each of these things aren't the same for every death, there are guidelines that can be used. For example, a corpse will not drop 10 degrees in 1 hour no matter what defense expert testifies to the contrary. Lividity and Rigor work the same way. You can't just get on that stand and say, determining TOD is voo doo science because it's not.

Now I know Michael Baden is for sale and that really troubles me, but the man does know pathology inside and out. I really wish they'd have gotten someone else to try and ascertain the TOD. Not because his science is faulty, but because his character is.

Unlike you however, I do believe this one is a slam dunk. The fact that the LE officer across the street had cameras on CC's residence alone is going to fry him.

The state will prove he sent himself threats. They'll show this by the computer, the air card, and the misspelling of, opportunity.

They have the faceplate from the DVR. They have the gloves. They have the vine thingy he used to strangle his family to death. They have the receipt of the gloves and paint being purchased from Home Depot.

Add his behavior with Sherri's family. No call to her family for how many days and when that call was placed, wasn't it by LE and not CC? Refused her family's request for funeral arrangements. They had to take legal action for everything, including funeral rights and rights to Sherri's possessions.

It just goes on, and on, and on, and on..... ad nauseam.

I believe it is a slam dunk and I believe he should cop any plea deal that the state may offer him.

[sunstar]

@ first blush, I tho't, since it is obvious they all died @ the same time, or in the same incident, he would be tried @ once for all 3. They would give him a sentence for each count.

Then, I tho't of Darlie Routier. They only tried her for one of the boys' murder. If I understand it correctly, that was done so that if she didn't get enough of a sentence for the first one, or perhaps wasn't found guilty, whatever might come up, they could always then go back and try her for the other.

So, guess this one is a wait and see. I haven't followed cases in that area, so don't know how it is usually done there.

Hi! I don't remember any case other than what you mentioned where there were separate trials for each victim of the same crime. There would still be three separate verdicts in this case, but only one trial. I just can't see the state splitting them up when the three deaths were all inside the same house and one continuous crime. MOO

[NatalieB]

Hi! I don't remember any case other than what you mentioned where there were separate trials for each victim of the same crime. There would still be three separate verdicts in this case, but only one trial. I just can't see the state splitting them up when the three deaths were all inside the same house and one continuous crime. MOO


I'm not sure she was talking about separate trials. Sometimes, the state will not try a defendant for all the deaths in case it's somehow dismissed on a technicality or is found NG or any host of other circumstances. This is done routinely to ensure that they get the guilty party and are able to keep him/her locked up behind bars.

I think they've even got deaths on Charles Manson that they've not tried him on just in case he's ever paroled.

I know for a fact Andrea Yates was never charged with the deaths of all 5 of her children. Of course in her case, she's proved insanity, so to try her for the other children, the state would now have to prove her not insane in addition to the guilt beyond a reasonable doubt burden.

In many cases, they'll try them for the youngest child's death because it alone is enough in many states to seek death. Some states it's 12 and under, and I think some are even 7 and under. The state may withhold the older child's murder just in case the perp is ever released back into society.

[sunstar]

I'm not sure she was talking about separate trials. Sometimes, the state will not try a defendant for all the deaths in case it's somehow dismissed on a technicality or is found NG or any host of other circumstances. This is done routinely to ensure that they get the guilty party and are able to keep him/her locked up behind bars.

I think they've even got deaths on Charles Manson that they've not tried him on just in case he's ever paroled.

I know for a fact Andrea Yates was never charged with the deaths of all 5 of her children. Of course in her case, she's proved insanity, so to try her for the other children, the state would now have to prove her not insane in addition to the guilt beyond a reasonable doubt burden.

In many cases, they'll try them for the youngest child's death because it alone is enough in many states to seek death. Some states it's 12 and under, and I think some are even 7 and under. The state may withhold the older child's murder just in case the perp is ever released back into society.
Thanks for the information ~ I had no idea! I followed the Entwistle case and he was tried for his wife & baby girl's murders in the same trial as they were both found shot next to each other in bed. Then of course were more famous cases, like OJ (both Nicole & Ron murdered together), Menendez (both parents murdered together) and Susan Smith (both boys died together in the car). I really hadn't thought of the DA not trying the defendant for all the victims at the same time, especially with the victims being together at the same location. :sad: MOO

[Sharmayla]

Hi. This reminds me of my dad. He was EXTREMELY abusive to his wife and kids, but treated everyone else he came into contact with like gold. I never understood that. I wish a psychiatrist or psychologist could explain to me why someone would be like that. I hope it's okay to keep bringing up my own personal issues. I'm not sure if it's allowed or not. Thank you! :smile:



You are right about sociopaths.

I am wondering if there is any more information on Chris and his past behaviours, relationships.

The only material I have read reported that he was a good, decent and kind man, according to people who knew him. Friends and people he went to school with, IIRC.

IMO.
M.

[Leanne Weich]

Hi. This reminds me of my dad. He was EXTREMELY abusive to his wife and kids, but treated everyone else he came into contact with like gold. I never understood that. I wish a psychiatrist or psychologist could explain to me why someone would be like that. I hope it's okay to keep bringing up my own personal issues. I'm not sure if it's allowed or not. Thank you! :smile:

I don't think that is unusual Sharmayla. Look how often (in almost all murder cases) you find people saying "oh ... could not possibly be the murderer. He is such a nice person".

[Sharmayla]

You're right, of course. But I still don't understand it. I often wonder why my dad didn't kill all of us. He sure came close to it plenty of times.


I don't think that is unusual Sharmayla. Look how often (in almost all murder cases) you find people saying "oh ... could not possibly be the murderer. He is such a nice person".

[Sharmayla]

Wow - I never made that connection before. I thought that these people really WERE nice, and just snapped. But maybe they were just like my dad the whole time - monsters to their families, but treating everyone else like gold!

[sunstar]

I don't think that is unusual Sharmayla. Look how often (in almost all murder cases) you find people saying "oh ... could not possibly be the murderer. He is such a nice person".

There are a lot of them out there with "Jekyl & Hyde" personalities. CC isn't that unusual. MOO

[Musterion]

Very well-thought out response and ironic, considering Baden will likely testify for the State in this case and this could be used against him. With high-profile cases, expert witnesses for sale to the highest bidder, and juries who expect CSI-level damning DNA evidence, I agree that there is no such thing as a slam-dunk case in this day and age.

That said, I think this is about as close as you can get. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

I agree, kelloggirl. Many expert witnesses cancel one another out, or confuse everyone in the courtroom, and juries are left with 'did the defendant have motive and opportunity'. Yes, to both of these for Chris. It just takes one juror, though, to cause a mistrial.

I look at trials differently since OJ Simpson walked. And, I look at investigations differently since Jon Benet Ramsey. Nothing surprises me much anymore.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Morning M!!

As usual, when it seems cases are pretty simple and obvious, they never are. I like you have heard CC's attornies are top notch~~So you are right, I'm sure they will find lots of things to plant the reasonable doubt.

I TRY to follow cases, but works and daily life always gets me sidelined so I tend to miss things. I have never even heard of 'cadaveric spasm'.:confused: And after reading your link, you are probabably right about it being tossed out there to muddy the waters. I really wish Baden wouldn't have been called in. For some reason that guy just makes me nervous when he enters the picture. He flaps his jaws to much.

I will say that the Marguils are pretty tight lipped. Sure haven't heard much from them! Or the Coleman family for that matter. If I ever get time, I am going to see what kind of *big* cases they have worked on.

I do wonder what else LE has. I'm really curious to see if Sheri had CC DNA under her nails. But with being married, I guess there is some kind of monkey wrench the Defense could throw out there to muddy the waters for that also.

The Belleville News had an article about the judges also. Not much different than the link I posted earlier, except a creepy looking picture of CC. He looks *evil* in this one. I might have saw it before, and dismissed it, but today it gives me the creeps!

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/813310.html

I quess 1 trial will be held for all three murders? or will they try them seperately? Any ideas?

Hi darcie!

It is hard to follow cases without RL getting in the way! Never enough time for research.

I agree about Baden.

That photo of Chris is disturbing. He just looks hollow. Vacant. I hope that his pastor is trying to speak with him. But, I haven't heard if he has had visits by him.

I know and understand that many people would be happy if Chris was totally abandoned by everyone. That he deserves that. However, IMO, the church he attended, the ministry he worked for, the friends that are christian that he was close to have an opportunity to walk the road that they preach. It is the hardest road to walk.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

The defense can attempt to attack the TOD, but I think, if they want to hold any creditability with jurors at all, they'd better not attempt to insult their intelligence by tossing out wild theories. Yes, it's true, that body temperature is based on many variables that opens it up for debate. Yes it's true that rigor doesn't set in the same with everyone after death. Yes, it's also true that lividity doesn't have a set chart for everyone either. Combine them together however and you can get a pretty good idea of the TOD. Remember too, that while each of these things aren't the same for every death, there are guidelines that can be used. For example, a corpse will not drop 10 degrees in 1 hour no matter what defense expert testifies to the contrary. Lividity and Rigor work the same way. You can't just get on that stand and say, determining TOD is voo doo science because it's not.

Now I know Michael Baden is for sale and that really troubles me, but the man does know pathology inside and out. I really wish they'd have gotten someone else to try and ascertain the TOD. Not because his science is faulty, but because his character is.

Unlike you however, I do believe this one is a slam dunk. The fact that the LE officer across the street had cameras on CC's residence alone is going to fry him.

The state will prove he sent himself threats. They'll show this by the computer, the air card, and the misspelling of, opportunity.

They have the faceplate from the DVR. They have the gloves. They have the vine thingy he used to strangle his family to death. They have the receipt of the gloves and paint being purchased from Home Depot.

Add his behavior with Sherri's family. No call to her family for how many days and when that call was placed, wasn't it by LE and not CC? Refused her family's request for funeral arrangements. They had to take legal action for everything, including funeral rights and rights to Sherri's possessions.

It just goes on, and on, and on, and on..... ad nauseam.

I believe it is a slam dunk and I believe he should cop any plea deal that the state may offer him.

Hi Natalieb,

You are right that the evidence that is said to have been found could be overwhelming to the point of a slam dunk. It is a lot. It seems to be more than enough evidence to convict, many cases don't even have half of this evidence and still convict.

For most every piece of evidence that you have listed, though, there could be and will be reasonable questions asked and reasonable answers given by the defense.

I understand that the LE that lives across the street had a video trained on the front of the Coleman house. However, there was not a video trained at the back of the house, IIRC. That was where the 'break in' was posed to have happened.

We've heard nothing of an 'alibi' from the defense. What we have heard is that Tara said that she talked to Chris the night of the murders and received an email from him the next day saying he had an alibi. The TOD may not even be an issue if there is an alibi for Chris during the hours of 11PM-3AM. Speculation is that the gym is the alibi. But, I have not heard that as the actual alibi Chris has given.

I don't believe that it would insult the intelligence of a jury for the defense to provide possibilities of their client's innocence. If I was on the jury, I would want to hear everything the defense would have to say about why their client is not guilty. I wouldn't want anything left out. I would feel that that would be the only way I could make an informed and intelligent decision.

Sheri, Gavin and Garrett deserve justice. Sheri's family deserves justice. If Chris did this, and it looks like he did, IMO, he should pay with his life. But, he deserves a fair trial. He deserves to have a defense and have his day in court to be heard. If he chooses.

JMO.
M.

[darcie]

And so it begins.............


http://www.bnd.com/372/story/815996.html
Lawyers investigating Coleman church donations; are they being used to help accused killer?

*snipped*
Belleville lawyer Jack Carey, who filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Christopher Coleman on behalf of his slain wife's family, said the donor contacted him and told him about the collection basket at the funerals. Now Carey wants an accounting of collections taken at the May 9 wake and funeral at Grace Church Ministries.

The collection was taken during services for Sheri Coleman, 31, and her sons Garett, 11, and Gavin, 9, who were found strangled in their Columbia home May 5, Carey said. Two weeks after the murders, police arrested Christopher Coleman, who was charged with three counts of first-degree murder.

"We were chagrined at this revelation of this fund and understand it is a sizable amount," Carey said. "I just wonder where that money went and whether it is being used to benefit Christopher Coleman."
-----

I have a feeling this case is going to get nasty. Sheri's family is not going to let this die down~~can't say that I blame them. CC and his family showed little respect to Sheri's family in the beginning. They might just come to regret that. i don't know what I would do if I was in Sheri's moms shoes. With a lawyer being in the family, I tend to think he is guiding Sheri's mom along. They have a long hard battle ahead of them.

[darcie]

Forgot to add in my post above.......

Handing a basket around at the funeral? Tacky...that is what I would call it. Tacky.

I have been to funerals where the family had no insurance, or their were mounting medical bills, or young children left behind, and donations were accepted *in lieu of flowers*, but never have I been to one where they actually passed a collections basket around. I think if I attended, I would be insulted by the gesture. If i wanted to give the coleman family a donation, it would be mailed.....I wouldn't be tossing money in a basket.

Gives me the willies actually!.

:scared:

[darcie]

Ok, it's me again....lol and i got one more comment on the article i just posted.

If the donations were given AT THE FUNERAL, I can see how they shouldln't be used to help defend CC. He wasn't even charged then. .So the people weren't giving to help defend CC, they were giving to offset funeral costs, expenses. That is what I would assume.

If people gave AFTER the murder charges at the the Coleman's church, I think that is their (the givers) rights and shouldn't be stoppped. I am taking into consideration that givers are being told they are giving for CC's defense fund. But if they don't realize that, and the money is being used for his defense....I can see a problem.

MOO

[NatalieB]

Hi Natalieb,

You are right that the evidence that is said to have been found could be overwhelming to the point of a slam dunk. It is a lot. It seems to be more than enough evidence to convict, many cases don't even have half of this evidence and still convict.

For most every piece of evidence that you have listed, though, there could be and will be reasonable questions asked and reasonable answers given by the defense.

I understand that the LE that lives across the street had a video trained on the front of the Coleman house. However, there was not a video trained at the back of the house, IIRC. That was where the 'break in' was posed to have happened.

We've heard nothing of an 'alibi' from the defense. What we have heard is that Tara said that she talked to Chris the night of the murders and received an email from him the next day saying he had an alibi. The TOD may not even be an issue if there is an alibi for Chris during the hours of 11PM-3AM. Speculation is that the gym is the alibi. But, I have not heard that as the actual alibi Chris has given.

I don't believe that it would insult the intelligence of a jury for the defense to provide possibilities of their client's innocence. If I was on the jury, I would want to hear everything the defense would have to say about why their client is not guilty. I wouldn't want anything left out. I would feel that that would be the only way I could make an informed and intelligent decision.

Sheri, Gavin and Garrett deserve justice. Sheri's family deserves justice. If Chris did this, and it looks like he did, IMO, he should pay with his life. But, he deserves a fair trial. He deserves to have a defense and have his day in court to be heard. If he chooses.

JMO.
M.

If Baden is saying the deaths happened between what, midnight and 3 AM, but even give it 5 AM, there is video of CC leaving his house at like 5:53 (this may not be exact). So, any alibi he may have for the hours you've indicated (11 PM to 3 AM) isn't going to matter.

And let's not forget, when LE entered the house thru the back window, they left behind footprints and grass debris. If the killer entered thru this route (or any other window), there were no prints or debris left behind. That would be one thorough killer to have cleaned all that up, graffiti the house, etc.... He's surely know time wouldn't be at issue. He'd also break into a house, steal the gloves from inside that house so as not to get caught, then use the paint that was just bought the day before.

With rigor and lividity fully set in (as LE claims at this point), they were not murdered within the hour. It's scientifically impossible.

[Ice Cycle]

If Baden is saying the deaths happened between what, midnight and 3 AM, but even give it 5 AM, there is video of CC leaving his house at like 5:53 (this may not be exact). So, any alibi he may have for the hours you've indicated (11 PM to 3 AM) isn't going to matter.

And let's not forget, when LE entered the house thru the back window, they left behind footprints and grass debris. If the killer entered thru this route (or any other window), there were no prints or debris left behind. That would be one thorough killer to have cleaned all that up, graffiti the house, etc.... He's surely know time wouldn't be at issue. He'd also break into a house, steal the gloves from inside that house so as not to get caught, then use the paint that was just bought the day before.
With rigor and lividity fully set in (as LE claims at this point), they were not murdered within the hour. It's scientifically impossible.

I don't think they have enough for a slam dunk but probably enough to convict him. Manily because I believe his main excuse was going to be that the person doing the threats did it, so if they do have proof that he sent those, in MO that is a biggy.

[Musterion]

If Baden is saying the deaths happened between what, midnight and 3 AM, but even give it 5 AM, there is video of CC leaving his house at like 5:53 (this may not be exact). So, any alibi he may have for the hours you've indicated (11 PM to 3 AM) isn't going to matter.

And let's not forget, when LE entered the house thru the back window, they left behind footprints and grass debris. If the killer entered thru this route (or any other window), there were no prints or debris left behind. That would be one thorough killer to have cleaned all that up, graffiti the house, etc.... He's surely know time wouldn't be at issue. He'd also break into a house, steal the gloves from inside that house so as not to get caught, then use the paint that was just bought the day before.

With rigor and lividity fully set in (as LE claims at this point), they were not murdered within the hour. It's scientifically impossible.

Hi Natalie!

They have video of him leaving his house, in his car, at that time, that's true. They do not have proof that he was in the house all night. Not to my knowledge. I could be wrong.

It could be argued that there were no footprints or debris left behind because someone could have been hiding in the house and left by the back door or window, not came in through. Footprints outside would depend on time left and conditions of dew settling.

You are probably right about your conclusions, Natalie. My point is that there may be elements of this case that we don't have knowledge of yet. That may give a different light.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

And so it begins.............


http://www.bnd.com/372/story/815996.html
Lawyers investigating Coleman church donations; are they being used to help accused killer?

*snipped*
Belleville lawyer Jack Carey, who filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Christopher Coleman on behalf of his slain wife's family, said the donor contacted him and told him about the collection basket at the funerals. Now Carey wants an accounting of collections taken at the May 9 wake and funeral at Grace Church Ministries.

The collection was taken during services for Sheri Coleman, 31, and her sons Garett, 11, and Gavin, 9, who were found strangled in their Columbia home May 5, Carey said. Two weeks after the murders, police arrested Christopher Coleman, who was charged with three counts of first-degree murder.

"We were chagrined at this revelation of this fund and understand it is a sizable amount," Carey said. "I just wonder where that money went and whether it is being used to benefit Christopher Coleman."
-----

I have a feeling this case is going to get nasty. Sheri's family is not going to let this die down~~can't say that I blame them. CC and his family showed little respect to Sheri's family in the beginning. They might just come to regret that. i don't know what I would do if I was in Sheri's moms shoes. With a lawyer being in the family, I tend to think he is guiding Sheri's mom along. They have a long hard battle ahead of them.

Thank you, darcie, for the link!

I don't know what I'd do if I was Sheri's mom either. I think about her often and feel so much grief for her. No one should lose their baby, and her baby's babies. It's too much to bear.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

"Gummersheimer said she has recently received toxicology results for the case – but is still awaiting a final autopsy report. She wouldn't disclose the toxicology results.

"That information should be made available during the inquest," she said.

The inquest, which isn't required by state law, is scheduled for July 10 at the Monroe County Courthouse. The death information with be presented before a jury.
Gummersheimer said she has subpoenaed only one witness for the public proceeding, Columbia Police Chief Joe Edwards."

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/D0061324AC80B181862575DD0068F3E0?OpenDocument

"We talked amongst ourselves and decided to have the inquest," Gummersheimer said. " ... It's a kind of a check and balance for my office."

http://www.bnd.com/breaking_news/story/817282.html

IMO.
M.

[NatalieB]

"Gummersheimer said she has recently received toxicology results for the case – but is still awaiting a final autopsy report. She wouldn't disclose the toxicology results.

"That information should be made available during the inquest," she said.

The inquest, which isn't required by state law, is scheduled for July 10 at the Monroe County Courthouse. The death information with be presented before a jury.
Gummersheimer said she has subpoenaed only one witness for the public proceeding, Columbia Police Chief Joe Edwards."

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/D0061324AC80B181862575DD0068F3E0?OpenDocument

"We talked amongst ourselves and decided to have the inquest," Gummersheimer said. " ... It's a kind of a check and balance for my office."

http://www.bnd.com/breaking_news/story/817282.html

IMO.
M.

That's quite interesting, huh?

I'm wondering why the need for the inquest? Are they wanting to get something out there before trial? I think the country has already concluded that he's guilty, so I doubt trying to sway public opinion is the main goal. Could it be an attempt to get CC to accept a plea deal? If not, I wonder what's to be gained here? It will be interesting to find out how it plays out.

[Musterion]

That's quite interesting, huh?

I'm wondering why the need for the inquest? Are they wanting to get something out there before trial? I think the country has already concluded that he's guilty, so I doubt trying to sway public opinion is the main goal. Could it be an attempt to get CC to accept a plea deal? If not, I wonder what's to be gained here? It will be interesting to find out how it plays out.

It is interesting. I don't know that once it is said no inquest there is a reversal, in many cases. It has to be strategy by the prosecution.

The way this is stated: "Gummersheimer said she has recently received toxicology results for the case – but is still awaiting a final autopsy report. She wouldn't disclose the toxicology results." is curious. I had thought they had received those results.

You make a great point, though, Natalie, this may be to get CC to accept a plea deal. What kind of plea deal would be good for him in his POV, though? The death penalty guarantees him isolation and out of general population. General population would not be kind to him. IMO.

M.

[Musterion]

The program that Sheri and Chris taught at their home. I have not read or researched all of the intricacies of this program. It may, however, yield some information to the mindsets of those who participated in the program.

http://www.daveramsey.com/

http://www.daveramsey.com/fpu/home/

We may have posted these before, sorry if this is redundant.

IMO.
M.

[darcie]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/4FF7441744534360862575DE00584077?OpenDocument
New judge named to handle Chris Coleman murder case
By Nicholas J.C. Pistor
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
06/23/2009

A new judge has been appointed to preside over the Chris Coleman triple murder case.

John Baricevic, the chief judge of the 20th Judicial Circuit, said today he has appointed himself to handle the case. Defense attorneys for Chris Coleman successfully disqualified two other judges in the circuit last week citing bias against the defendant.

Baricevic isn't certified to preside over a death penalty case. If prosecutors decide to seek the death penalty against Coleman, Baricevic said he would recuse himself and appoint someone else.

[sunstar]

Nancy Grace is talking about the murders tonight, the pending coroner's inquest and the possibility that all three victims could've been drugged prior to strangulation. Awaiting toxicology results now which will be revealed at the inquest.

[sunstar]

Nancy was also discussing Sheri's family's concern about what happened to the donations taken for the family bereavement fund that were collected at the church and the speculation the money might have gone to CC's defense. :mad:

[Musterion]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/4FF7441744534360862575DE00584077?OpenDocument
New judge named to handle Chris Coleman murder case
By Nicholas J.C. Pistor
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
06/23/2009

A new judge has been appointed to preside over the Chris Coleman triple murder case.

John Baricevic, the chief judge of the 20th Judicial Circuit, said today he has appointed himself to handle the case. Defense attorneys for Chris Coleman successfully disqualified two other judges in the circuit last week citing bias against the defendant.

Baricevic isn't certified to preside over a death penalty case. If prosecutors decide to seek the death penalty against Coleman, Baricevic said he would recuse himself and appoint someone else.

Hi darcie,

I think he may have to recuse himself.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Nancy Grace is talking about the murders tonight, the pending coroner's inquest and the possibility that all three victims could've been drugged prior to strangulation. Awaiting toxicology results now which will be revealed at the inquest.

Thanks, sunstar.

I think we are all curious about the toxicology reports. It will be quite telling.

IMO.
M.

[BlueHeron]

Hi,

I'm new to this case & have a question. Does anyone know why the LE officer had a camera trained on the coleman home? Was it a securtiy camera? If so, I think it's odd that it showed a neighbors home. Typically home security cameras are pointed down slightly to caoture anyone trying to enter their property/residence. I just think it's really strange. TIA for any info you can provide!

:seeya:

[darcie]

Hi darcie,

I think he may have to recuse himself.

IMO.
M.

Morning M! Your opinion is probably correct! I have read a few different boards (St. Louis Post and Belleville News) and there are not to many posts that speak highly of Baricevic. I am not sure what is up with that, but I'm going to do some searching. I don't think he has been a judge very long, 4-5 years maybe? But I did notice he is the Chief Judge.

I, too, wonder like you all do what is up with the inquest. It is probably as you all have suggest something to do with the toxicology reports. Shall be interesting!!

[darcie]

Hi,

I'm new to this case & have a question. Does anyone know why the LE officer had a camera trained on the coleman home? Was it a securtiy camera? If so, I think it's odd that it showed a neighbors home. Typically home security cameras are pointed down slightly to caoture anyone trying to enter their property/residence. I just think it's really strange. TIA for any info you can provide!

:seeya:

Hi there Blue!

I have been following the case, but I don't know if I can answer your questions either. Chris Coleman himself had a security camera which the "face plate" was found when police were searching the Interstate 255 median. The DVR was missing from the house when police investigated.

Maybe just maybe, since the cop that had the security camera on the coleman house, was the same one that CC called that morning to check on his family, maybe the neighbor placed it there to help CC find out who was sending the threatening letters? I am not positive about that, it's just a thought!

Glad to see you on board. It might be a interesting case to follow.

Here is a link about CC's dvr
http://www.bnd.com/

[witchywoman]

Hi,

I'm new to this case & have a question. Does anyone know why the LE officer had a camera trained on the coleman home? Was it a securtiy camera? If so, I think it's odd that it showed a neighbors home. Typically home security cameras are pointed down slightly to caoture anyone trying to enter their property/residence. I just think it's really strange. TIA for any info you can provide!

:seeya:

dh and i have security cameras that we use on the front and back of our home, these cams move to the left and to the right with motion, and we often catch images of our neighbors homes as the swinging left and right from the camera, hope that makes sense, lol?

we have front back side to side view of our home, but since cam moves it also shows the neighbors houses..

which they know about and our thankful for, lol

[Amy]

Hi there Blue!

I have been following the case, but I don't know if I can answer your questions either. Chris Coleman himself had a security camera which the "face plate" was found when police were searching the Interstate 255 median. The DVR was missing from the house when police investigated.

Maybe just maybe, since the cop that had the security camera on the coleman house, was the same one that CC called that morning to check on his family, maybe the neighbor placed it there to help CC find out who was sending the threatening letters? I am not positive about that, it's just a thought!

Glad to see you on board. It might be a interesting case to follow.

Here is a link about CC's dvr
http://www.bnd.com/

That is the impression I had. I think the neighbor cop was on of the officers involved in investigating the letters CC had reported to them. IIRC, the camera from his property was part of the watch to see who might be placing the letters in the mailbox. Don't remember which article this info was in.

[sunstar]

Thanks, sunstar.

I think we are all curious about the toxicology reports. It will be quite telling.

IMO.
M.

You're most welcome! I think what's also very interesting about last night's report is the coroner's inquest. Originally they weren't going to do one, and had Dr. Baden give his opinion, etc. Now they've changed their minds. Did it have anything to do with Dr. Baden's credibility? :confused:

[Ice Cycle]

Good Morning,
I just wanted to comment on the toxicology reports as I am curious about the inquest also. I just hope this is not some plan to try to get him to confess to make a deal. Though in general I am usually against the DP, if he did this (which it appears he did) I can't think of anyone more that deserves it, even over CA.

[NatalieB]

Good Morning,
I just wanted to comment on the toxicology reports as I am curious about the inquest also. I just hope this is not some plan to try to get him to confess to make a deal. Though in general I am usually against the DP, if he did this (which it appears he did) I can't think of anyone more that deserves it, even over CA.

If he did this (and I believe he did), he makes what CA did look like child's play.

The planning he would have had to have done is unbelievable. It's hard to believe that he could hate his family this much without them being aware of it. That just might be his only saving grace in front of a jury. One of them may not be able to wrap their brains around the fact that any human being could do this to their own family.

[darcie]

http://www.examiner.com/x-7403-Tampa-Crime-Examiner~y2009m6d15-Chris-Coleman-cold-hearted-killer-or-candidate-for-insanity-defense

Chris Coleman cold hearted killer or candidate for insanity defense


*snipped*
Opening credit cards with the mistress, sending secret E-Mails back and forth, planning out threatening letters and reporting harassment to the police in an attempt to create a suspect, and taking the time to spray paint obscenities throughout the home, including the sheets of the children he just strangled to death seem a far cry from insanity, but rather point to a carefully orchestrated (though poorly at that); detailed, and calculated time of murder.
However, there is a possibility that the defense might look to his religious associations with Joyce Meyer Ministries, and the notes that he allegedly wrote, telling Sheri Coleman to “Deny her God, or else” and referring to Joyce Meyer, his employer as an obscenity as grounds for some sort of insanity. If Coleman were to cop an insanity plea he would need to first undergo a mental health evaluation, and it is possible that his defense might turn to an attack on the religious upbringing that he had to plead insanity for their client. It wouldn’t be the first time that religion was used as a basis for the criminal workings of a man, or woman, that murdered their family.

[sunstar]

If he did this (and I believe he did), he makes what CA did look like child's play.

The planning he would have had to have done is unbelievable. It's hard to believe that he could hate his family this much without them being aware of it. That just might be his only saving grace in front of a jury. One of them may not be able to wrap their brains around the fact that any human being could do this to their own family.

It is almost unimaginable the hatred one would have for his family, especially the little boys. I think if the DA were to ask for the DP, that once the jury convicted him of the murders there wouldn't be any problem giving him the ultimate punishment. The best thing he could do, if the DA seeks the DP, would be to try to make a plea deal to spare his life. MOO

[Ice Cycle]

It is almost unimaginable the hatred one would have for his family, especially the little boys. I think if the DA were to ask for the DP, that once the jury convicted him of the murders there wouldn't be any problem giving him the ultimate punishment. The best thing he could do, if the DA seeks the DP, would be to try to make a plea deal to spare his life. MOO

If they have proof for certain that he did this (which probably) then their should be no deal offered or accepted by the DA and nothing less than the DP, period. I believe the DA is aware that anything less would create public rage. It's MO that this was nothing more than "I want what I want".

[sunstar]

If they have proof for certain that he did this (which probably) then their should be no deal offered or accepted by the DA and nothing less than the DP, period. I believe the DA is aware that anything less would create public rage. It's MO that this was nothing more than "I want what I want".

Oh I agree with you! I was just saying that he would be wise to confess (assuming he's guilty) and try to get LWOP because if the DP is available I think the jury would give him that sentence. MOO

[girlspell]

Is there a DP in Illinois? I'm confused about this . I hear there was and then heard there is a moratorium on the DP in that state.

[sunstar]

Is there a DP in Illinois? I'm confused about this . I hear there was and then heard there is a moratorium on the DP in that state.

Yes there is, but currently there is a moratorium. The convicted can still be sentenced to death it just means no executions are currently taking place. I've also heard the moratorium may be lifted now that there's a new governor, but don't know as fact. MOO

[darcie]

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/824866.html

Joyce Meyer Ministries ready to provide information on Coleman

*snipped*

Joyce Meyer Ministries says it wants the material kept private, but Jack Carey, a lawyer for the family of Coleman's slain wife Sheri, says the family won't agree to confidentiality.

[Ontario]

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/824866.html

Joyce Meyer Ministries ready to provide information on Coleman

*snipped*

Joyce Meyer Ministries says it wants the material kept private, but Jack Carey, a lawyer for the family of Coleman's slain wife Sheri, says the family won't agree to confidentiality.

After what he did she should be willing to give the family or the Lawyer any information with open arms!!!

[KittyMom]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/BF88BA57BE18EBE4862575E4005C54B9?OpenDocument

Sheri Coleman lawyer seeks court order against Joyce MeyerBy Nicholas J.C. Pistor
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

Now, Carey wants a judge to order the internationally known televangelist's organization to hand over information about life insurance policies, safe deposit boxes, pensions, overheard conversations, travel records, private flight plans and other information.

Joyce Meyer Ministries said some of the material requested contains "sensitive information" pertaining to the ministry or information the ministry is "required by law or contract to keep confidential."



I don't see how any of the requested items would be considered sensitive. :confused:

[Nellie]

So....the Joyce Meyer ministries will be drug into this. I didn't think they would escape it. Now I'm curious what sort of information they would want kept confidental. 3 people are dead.....forget about hiding things!

[Musterion]

http://suburbanjournals.stltoday.com/articles/2009/06/30/monroe/crime/0701cla-2coleman0.txt

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

So....the Joyce Meyer ministries will be drug into this. I didn't think they would escape it. Now I'm curious what sort of information they would want kept confidental. 3 people are dead.....forget about hiding things!

Hi Nellie!

Confidentiality for ministers, psychologists, counselours, attorneys, etc. is a sticky matter. Each state has varying legal guidelines regarding confidentiality.

I would be interested to know Illinois law regarding ministries and confidentiality.

Chris may have been, more than likely was, privy to sensitive and private information concerning other employees that could embarrass or devastate them. If this is what JMM is trying to accomplish: protecting other employees from exposure of things they believed would remain confidential, then I can understand, to a point, the language of their answer.

However, it would seem that Sheri's family's attorneys would remain sensitive to those things and take to court only that which pertained to Chris and his actions, words, etc. while employed at JMM.

JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

"We are trying to be as cooperative as we can while still balancing the interests of our client," King said.
Under the ministries proposed agreement, Carey must obtain permission from the ministry before using the documents in memorandums, client communication and press releases because it could cause the ministry "irreparable harm" if made public.

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/827197.html

(Bolding Mine)

Those statements bother me. I'd like to see the context.

But, it does not 'sound' like JMM is trying to be protective of anyone else's privacy issues except for their own, which could cause 'irreparable harm'. Very disturbing wording.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

"Popular TV Evangelist Joyce Meyer is likely combating a mega-migraine as a result.

Coleman worked on Meyer’s security staff. Meyer is probably longing for the day when her worst nightmare was an investigation by Senator Grassley into financial misconduct. The Better Business Bureau maintains that Meyer’s ministry violates the standard for Charitable Accountability."

http://karenzach.wordpress.com/2009/06/30/meyer-murder-migraine/

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

"DOES NOT MEET ONE OR MORE STANDARDS
This charity does not meet one or more of the 20 standards for Charity Accountability. Find out more..."

http://www.bbb.org/charity-reviews/national/toc/joyce-meyer-ministries-in-fenton-mo-3113

IMO.
M.

[darcie]

Good Morning M!

I am not on the *in* enough about charitable operations to really have an opinion towards the business aspect of JMM. I don't see how anything that the family lawyer requested would be interefering, much less cause irrepairable harm to the ministry itself.

They are seeking PAST flight schedules and passenger information, not current so there is no cause for a security breach. I am thinking they just want to see how many times ole Chris met up with ole Tara on JMM's time/money. Actually I would think JMM would be interested in that too.

Sometimes I think lawyers make bigger issues out of things than what there really should be. There is nothing wrong with a lawyer trying to keep JMM's best intrest at heart, but I can't see how anything they requested would make a difference in their operation. Instead the lawyer is bringing MORE scrutiny to JMM by tyring to weasle out of complying. So of course, now I think...what is JMM hiding?

Or maybe I don't have a clue how a ministry/business works, and I don't know a thing about what I am talking about. lol. :laugh:

i find it odd that the Coleman family/ministry has another NEW lawyer, switching from the previous, and has yet to comply with the requests. That makes me think....what are They HIDING?

That makes me take a second hard look at myself, and I guess I would have to admit, I don't trust anyone that makes religion a business. Kinda sad...

[Musterion]

Good Morning M!

I am not on the *in* enough about charitable operations to really have an opinion towards the business aspect of JMM. I don't see how anything that the family lawyer requested would be interefering, much less cause irrepairable harm to the ministry itself.

They are seeking PAST flight schedules and passenger information, not current so there is no cause for a security breach. I am thinking they just want to see how many times ole Chris met up with ole Tara on JMM's time/money. Actually I would think JMM would be interested in that too.

Sometimes I think lawyers make bigger issues out of things than what there really should be. There is nothing wrong with a lawyer trying to keep JMM's best intrest at heart, but I can't see how anything they requested would make a difference in their operation. Instead the lawyer is bringing MORE scrutiny to JMM by tyring to weasle out of complying. So of course, now I think...what is JMM hiding?

Or maybe I don't have a clue how a ministry/business works, and I don't know a thing about what I am talking about. lol. :laugh:

i find it odd that the Coleman family/ministry has another NEW lawyer, switching from the previous, and has yet to comply with the requests. That makes me think....what are They HIDING?

That makes me take a second hard look at myself, and I guess I would have to admit, I don't trust anyone that makes religion a business. Kinda sad...

Hello Miss Darcie!

I agree with your post.

Especially your part about making religion a business.

When Joyce Meyer started out she was 'just' a housewife from Fenton. It was part of her believability and why, IMO, so many embraced her. She spoke honestly, humourously. She spoke how many of us felt, but were afraid to say, in our Christian walk. These were endearing things about her.

Three precious lives were brutally taken. The accused is the one who should have been the one who protected those precious lives. No one should stand in the way, IMO, of the person who did this facing a jury of his peers.

So sad. Sheri's birthday is in two days. I pray her mom and brother, her father and all who love her will be comforted in their grief.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur54369.cfm

IMO.
M.

[Ice Cycle]

http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur54369.cfm

IMO.
M.

Thanks for the link, you know alot of companies are now given employee's better life insurance premiums/policy's for a cheaper rate(probably due to lesser Heath Ins benefits) just wonder if they are looking to see if that was increased lately.

We are not going to sign any confidentiality agreement," Carey told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Meyers had asked that any information they give be kept confidential. Joyce Meyers Ministry was named as a respondent in discovery. The family of Coleman's wife has asked the company to reveal information about Coleman's company related life insurance policies, safe deposit boxes, pension, travel records and overheard conversations.

[darcie]

I think there is a court date this week....isn't there? i am going to have to do some back reading.


Found this article by chance, was kinda interesting with all the different views of JMM and ALL televangelesits and the not for profit organizations. I wonder if anything ever came of it?
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/42538

Joyce Meyer's $23,000 Toilet: A Symbol Of The Prosperity Gospel

[darcie]

Triple murder suspect's job records to get review before release
http://www.bnd.com/372/story/834758.html


Accused triple murderer Christopher Coleman's employment records from his job as a bodyguard for televangelist Joyce Meyer will first be reviewed in her lawyer's private office before they can be made public.

[darcie]

Judge delays ruling in lawsuit over Coleman murders
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/B627C94195E9FB97862575EB00529DFA?OpenDocument

A judge delayed a decision on whether Joyce Meyer Ministries can respond in secret to a civil suit sought by Sheri Coleman's family.

The delay happened because Ron Coleman, the father of Chris Coleman, who is also a respondent in discovery, is in the process of changing attorneys.
----

I read in an article last week that Ron Coleman's attorney was Marguilis, the same attorney representing Chris Coleman.

[Amy]

So, perhaps there is a tad bit of conflict of interest. Wonder if Ron Coleman can have another attorney in the firm? Of course, I guess it would be best if their attorneys were in different firms?

[darcie]

Anxious to hear the toxicology reports!!!!

Coleman inquest convenes Friday

A coroner's jury will hear details today about the deaths of Sheri Coleman and her two sons.

The inquest is open to the public and begins at 10 a.m. in a Monroe County courtroom. Toxicology results are expected to be given.

One law enforcement witness is scheduled to testify, according to the Monroe County coroner.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/E95F69746E3AE810862575EF00189914?OpenDocument

[darcie]

Huh, there wasn't much hoopala to report!

Coroner's jury finds murder by ligature strangulation in Coleman deaths

Monroe County coroner's jury arrived Friday morning at a verdict in the deaths of a Columbia woman and her young sons.

The jury found Sheri Coleman and her sons, Garett, 11, and Gavin, 9, were murdered and the manner of their murders was by ligature strangulation.

http://www.bnd.com/372/story/840175.html

[darcie]

Art Margulis, a defense attorney representing Chris Coleman, was at the inquest today.

He said his client is "doing fine."

Margulis said he is considering a motion to move the trial away from Monroe County. But, he said, the media attention in the case is national, meaning people all over Illinois have heard about the case.

"I'm not sure where we can go," Margulis said.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/E95F69746E3AE810862575EF00189914?OpenDocument

[darcie]

Some might find this interesting.

New: First video of "other woman" in Coleman murder case


http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov-090708-coleman-other-woman-first-video.1ebbd28a.html

[Amy]

Art Margulis, a defense attorney representing Chris Coleman, was at the inquest today.

He said his client is "doing fine."

Margulis said he is considering a motion to move the trial away from Monroe County. But, he said, the media attention in the case is national, meaning people all over Illinois have heard about the case.

"I'm not sure where we can go," Margulis said.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/E95F69746E3AE810862575EF00189914?OpenDocument

He isn't following the news too much, I would think. If the posts to this board reflect the news accounts, they are few and far between these days. Not like the daily coverage, sometimes several stories per day when this all started. It's not like there is a lot of information that is true or rumor or anything going around for him to be concerned about. Now, closer to trial, perhaps it will be head line news again everyday, but I don't think the jury pool is being manipulated by the prosecution or the defense @ this point. IMO

[Ice Cycle]

He isn't following the news too much, I would think. If the posts to this board reflect the news accounts, they are few and far between these days. Not like the daily coverage, sometimes several stories per day when this all started. It's not like there is a lot of information that is true or rumor or anything going around for him to be concerned about. Now, closer to trial, perhaps it will be head line news again everyday, but I don't think the jury pool is being manipulated by the prosecution or the defense @ this point. IMO

I would imagine once the trial gets underway that the news will pick back up, especially locally. Anyone know if a trail date has been set?

[sunstar]

Art Margulis, a defense attorney representing Chris Coleman, was at the inquest today.

He said his client is "doing fine."

Margulis said he is considering a motion to move the trial away from Monroe County. But, he said, the media attention in the case is national, meaning people all over Illinois have heard about the case.

"I'm not sure where we can go," Margulis said.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/E95F69746E3AE810862575EF00189914?OpenDocument

Well, Nancy Grace mentioned the case last night just briefly ~ only to update on the coroner's inquest then she was right back to yet more MJ coverage. So I disagree with the lawyer. This case just isn't "in the national news" anymore. MOO

[Musterion]

"Seeing someone I worked with come through the door in the jump suit, with the handcuffs on, it hurts. It really does," said freelance photojournalist, George Wise, who's been covering the case for the Associated Press and others. "I was just shocked. I was just like, 'this cannot be Chris Coleman. There's no way. This is not the Chris Coleman I know'."

Wise has been covering St. Louis for close to 20 years. For close to 3, he worked as a TV-video specialist for the Joyce Meyer Ministries alongside Chris Coleman and Coleman's wife Sheri, 31.

IMO.
M.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/kplr-coleman-late-0502009,0,6794769.story

[Musterion]

"Edwards told the six jurors and one alternate that Detective Justin Barlow received a call on his cell phone at 6:50 a.m. May 5 from his neighbor Christopher Coleman asking him to check on Coleman's wife and children. Coleman said he was calling from Gold's Gym in south St. Louis County, and that he was concerned because his family wasn't answering the phone. Months earlier, Barlow had investigated Coleman's complaint involving letters threatening his family.
After receiving Coleman's call, Barlow got up, got dressed, then called Columbia police dispatcher for an additional officer. Sgt. Jason Donjon arrived and went to the back of the house, located at 2845 Robert Drive, and discovered an open basement window. Barlow and Donjon entered the home through the window, Edwards testified.
The two went up the basement steps and discovered a spray-painted message on the kitchen wall that Edwards described as "obscene and vulgar."

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/841063.html

[sunstar]

"Edwards told the six jurors and one alternate that Detective Justin Barlow received a call on his cell phone at 6:50 a.m. May 5 from his neighbor Christopher Coleman asking him to check on Coleman's wife and children. Coleman said he was calling from Gold's Gym in south St. Louis County, and that he was concerned because his family wasn't answering the phone. Months earlier, Barlow had investigated Coleman's complaint involving letters threatening his family.
After receiving Coleman's call, Barlow got up, got dressed, then called Columbia police dispatcher for an additional officer. Sgt. Jason Donjon arrived and went to the back of the house, located at 2845 Robert Drive, and discovered an open basement window. Barlow and Donjon entered the home through the window, Edwards testified.
The two went up the basement steps and discovered a spray-painted message on the kitchen wall that Edwards described as "obscene and vulgar."

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/841063.html
Too bad CC never looked up anything regarding establishing time of death. This part sealed his fate ~ since there is no way the murders could've occurred an hour or so before they were found. MOO

"Barlow discovered Garett Coleman's body in his bed, Edwards said. He checked and could not find a pulse. He noticed a ligature mark on the boy's neck and that the body was "cold and stiff," Edwards said.

Donjon found Sheri's body, which was "locked and rigid," Edwards said. There were also ligature marks on her neck."

[Musterion]

Too bad CC never looked up anything regarding establishing time of death. This part sealed his fate ~ since there is no way the murders could've occurred an hour or so before they were found. MOO

"Barlow discovered Garett Coleman's body in his bed, Edwards said. He checked and could not find a pulse. He noticed a ligature mark on the boy's neck and that the body was "cold and stiff," Edwards said.

Donjon found Sheri's body, which was "locked and rigid," Edwards said. There were also ligature marks on her neck."

You're right, sunstar.

I find it very odd that CC was an MP who may have been called upon to investigate crimes scenes, was most assuredly trained in investigating crime scenes, would not have taken rigor mortis into account 'if' he committed these murders.

Very odd.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I would imagine once the trial gets underway that the news will pick back up, especially locally. Anyone know if a trail date has been set?

Hi Ice,

I haven't heard of any date, even tentative. I have a sense that it will be a long and drawn out process, don't you?

IMO.
M.

[darcie]

Hi everyone!

I haven't heard an exact date, but snipped this from the link Musterion posted:

"We anticipate this case will go to trial next year," Margulis told reporters.

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/841063.html


After reading that article a few things stuck out in my mind:

This: (I think it is an odd remark for a Defense Attorney, maybe I am just reading to much into it)

The details of the case are disturbing, clearly," said Coleman's lawyer, Art Margulis, who attended the coroner's inquest. "As anyone would imagine, they are disturbing."

Also this:

Patton found Gavin's body in his bed. He also had ligature marks on his neck, but Patton didn't touch the body because he believed there was "evidence on the body," Edwards said.

"A disturbing message was sprayed on the sheet that covered him," Edwards said.

---

I can't help but wonder, why the words on the sheet that covered one son, and not the other? Why the words for the child anyway? I know we have had *hints* of the messages, I wonder what message was on that sheet? Gavin was the baby......I just find that extrememly sad. Nothing was ever said if anything was spray painted by Sheri.

[Musterion]

Hi everyone!

I haven't heard an exact date, but snipped this from the link Musterion posted:

"We anticipate this case will go to trial next year," Margulis told reporters.

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/841063.html


After reading that article a few things stuck out in my mind:

This: (I think it is an odd remark for a Defense Attorney, maybe I am just reading to much into it)

The details of the case are disturbing, clearly," said Coleman's lawyer, Art Margulis, who attended the coroner's inquest. "As anyone would imagine, they are disturbing."

Also this:

Patton found Gavin's body in his bed. He also had ligature marks on his neck, but Patton didn't touch the body because he believed there was "evidence on the body," Edwards said.

"A disturbing message was sprayed on the sheet that covered him," Edwards said.

---

I can't help but wonder, why the words on the sheet that covered one son, and not the other? Why the words for the child anyway? I know we have had *hints* of the messages, I wonder what message was on that sheet? Gavin was the baby......I just find that extrememly sad. Nothing was ever said if anything was spray painted by Sheri.

Hi darcie!

I think we must not know all of what they found in Sheri's house that morning. Maybe there were words written in areas we don't know about yet. Good investigators, IMO, keep back certain details that only the killer would know.

Assuming Chris did this, I would surmise that he wrote the messages on his child/children for shock value. Meaning, how could a father do that? Only a deranged, disassociated stalker could write horrific messages, especially on a little child's bed sheets. He might think it would point away from him.

Darcie, or anyone, has it been reported that LE did forensics on Tara's computers? I would hope and pray they did.

IMO.
M.

[darcie]

Hi there M! I remember there being quite a few computers taken from the Coleman household. They were listed on a search warrant, but I don't recall if any of them were specified as to being specifically Sheri's. I am at work, so short of time, but i will try to look tonight, and if I find anything outlining Sheri's computer specifically, I'll post it.

Other than that, I would hope LE is searching ALL the computers. It would be interesting to know if Tara was Chris Colemans first *online love*!:wub: ( bet she wasn't!)

Moo

[Musterion]

Hi there M! I remember there being quite a few computers taken from the Coleman household. They were listed on a search warrant, but I don't recall if any of them were specified as to being specifically Sheri's. I am at work, so short of time, but i will try to look tonight, and if I find anything outlining Sheri's computer specifically, I'll post it.

Other than that, I would hope LE is searching ALL the computers. It would be interesting to know if Tara was Chris Colemans first *online love*!:wub: ( bet she wasn't!)

Moo

Hello Miss darcie! Things have sure quieted down, haven't they?

I remember that, too, on the search warrant. I imagine that they would have taken any that were Sheri's exclusively.

I was more interested, though, in Tara's computers. It might be interesting to see if she dialogued with Sheri, through email, or through Facebook, during the time she and Chris were planning their trysts and upcoming marriage.

And, if she did, how many times. Would forensics show her checking and re checking Sheri's Facebook to see if there were any mention of a divorce.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Hi there M! I remember there being quite a few computers taken from the Coleman household. They were listed on a search warrant, but I don't recall if any of them were specified as to being specifically Sheri's. I am at work, so short of time, but i will try to look tonight, and if I find anything outlining Sheri's computer specifically, I'll post it.

Other than that, I would hope LE is searching ALL the computers. It would be interesting to know if Tara was Chris Colemans first *online love*!:wub: ( bet she wasn't!)

Moo

Good point, too, darcie.

It was reported that there had been a rough patch and counseling in Sheri and Chris' marriage last year but that all was 'okay' after the counseling.

Did Sheri find evidence online that Chris was dallying? And, if he was, why have those persons not come forward? Or, maybe they have and it is not being made public.

IMO.
M.

[darcie]

Hey there M! I totally missed the TARA in your first part...lol. I don't know how, but I just read it as Sheri! I have never heard about Tara's computer. But if I was her, I would be cooperating from start to finish (if I really knew nothing about the murders)! So maybe she voluntarily gave them her computer. Who knows, that might be wishful thinking on my part.

Again, sorry for the mixup in my brain....:tongue:

[EMAA]

Hey there M! I totally missed the TARA in your first part...lol. I don't know how, but I just read it as Sheri! I have never heard about Tara's computer. But if I was her, I would be cooperating from start to finish (if I really knew nothing about the murders)! So maybe she voluntarily gave them her computer. Who knows, that might be wishful thinking on my part.

Again, sorry for the mixup in my brain....:tongue:

darcie, are you living in the area of this incident?

[darcie]

Hi there EMAA! Actually I was born and raised in North St. Louis so I kinda know the area. But now I live 130 miles south or so. Close enough!! Cases like these just get under my skin and into my heart. I'll have to follow this one through to the end.

A sad, sad, situation for all involved. And before it is over i bet a lot of lives will be turned upside down!:sad:

Sheri, Gavin, and Garett have been silented, yet ther voices are being heard. As it should be.

By the way, welcome to the thread!

[Musterion]

Hey there M! I totally missed the TARA in your first part...lol. I don't know how, but I just read it as Sheri! I have never heard about Tara's computer. But if I was her, I would be cooperating from start to finish (if I really knew nothing about the murders)! So maybe she voluntarily gave them her computer. Who knows, that might be wishful thinking on my part.

Again, sorry for the mixup in my brain....:tongue:

LOL! Hey, noooo problem! It happens! You're funny!

I would think that LE would be thorough enough to get Tara's computer and find out what she was reading, researching, viewing as well as who she communicated with and how much. I just have not heard that they did that.

As vulnerable as affairs are, I would think that it would not be unlikely for Tara to contact Sheri (being friends for so long) and ask how she was and what was new in her life, knowing that Chris was allegedly divorcing Sheri for her. Making sure he was following through...

JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

darcie, are you living in the area of this incident?

Yes, welcome to the boards!!

What makes you ask darcie if she is living there? If you don't mind answering!!

IMO.
M.

[darcie]

LOL! Hey, noooo problem! It happens! You're funny!

I would think that LE would be thorough enough to get Tara's computer and find out what she was reading, researching, viewing as well as who she communicated with and how much. I just have not heard that they did that.

As vulnerable as affairs are, I would think that it would not be unlikely for Tara to contact Sheri (being friends for so long) and ask how she was and what was new in her life, knowing that Chris was allegedly divorcing Sheri for her. Making sure he was following through...

JMO.
M.

I have to agree that LE probably did take her computer, but I guess a search warrant would be filed in St. Petersburg( whatever county that is), right?

It kinda makes me wonder....as much cr*p as I look up on my puter, I hope like heck no one even remotely close to me does something that LE would want to look at my puter for. It would be just my luck!! LOL :ohmy: I'd have lots and lots of explaining to do.

The information let out sure has been nipped in the bud! These defense attornies say nothing darn't!

[sunstar]

Coleman text message to girlfriend is revealed

07/16/2009

WATERLOO — New search warrants filed today in the Monroe County courthouse revealed that Tara Lintz, Chris Coleman's girlfriend, received text messages from Coleman on the day of his wife and sons' funeral May 9.

In addition, the documents state that the latex glove found lying on the side of Interstate 255 near the Jefferson Barracks Bridge had remnants of red spray paint. Police say they saw obscene messages spray painted in red on the walls of the Columbia, Ill., home where the family was slain May 5. In the upstairs bedrooms, Coleman's wife, Sheri, 31, and sons Garett, 11, and Gavin, 9, were found strangled.

Investigators went to Coleman's place of employment, at Joyce Meyer Ministries, and found a box of gloves similar to the one found on the side of the highway, the documents say. The box of gloves was found in the security manager's office of the ministries. Coleman was Joyce Meyer's chief of security.

The text messages were sent to Lintz's mother's phone, which Tara Lintz was using because her phone had already been taken by police.

"In the text messages, Christopher told her he missed her and loved her," the documents state.

Lintz told investigators she hasn't had contact with Coleman since May 9, the documents state.

But invesigators say they can't verify that story because Lintz says she lost her mother's cell phone while at Busch Gardens in Florida on June 3.

more at http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/C9B9DAA1B15F1366862575F5007A36C7?OpenDocument#tp_n ewCommentAnchor

[darcie]

Geeez...what was he, crazy, head over heals in in love?

It seems like he never gave it a thought that LE would be looking at him first and foremost? I can't believe all the little flub ups he made.
It's like he was almost desperate, but yet for months he had been plotting/planning about leaving Sheri in SOME WAY. I don't think divorce was an option for him. God only knows why . Embarrassment to the family? or was it a job?


The man left left wayyyyy to much evidence for me to not form an opinon on his guilt. The defense is gonna have to convince me his is NOT guilty. (i'd never make a juror for this one). :laugh:

The gloves, letters on his ocmputer, the mispelled word, the time frame, the girlfriend, the supposed divorce, in over their butts in debt.
It just keeps stacking up.


The thing tha bothers me most, is the kids. I just can't figure out where his mind was when he killed his children.

It's hard to imagine Sheri not seeing this coming. What a wicked web some weave.

:angry:

By the way, thanks for the article sunstar!

[darcie]

Call me nosey, but I sure would like to see some of the emails between CC and Tara BEFORE the murder. :drool:

I would think if she knew anything about this before, there would have been charges by now.

Don't ya think?

[sunstar]

You're most welcome, darcie! :smile: I can't figure out killing the children either except that he just wanted to be rid of anything that tied him down so he could start over with his girlfriend. I agree there's so much evidence against him I couldn't be an unbiased juror either. MOO

[sunstar]

Call me nosey, but I sure would like to see some of the emails between CC and Tara BEFORE the murder. :drool:

I would think if she knew anything about this before, there would have been charges by now.

Don't ya think?

I agree she'd be charged if LE had any evidence they planned this together. I think all along he counted on LE believing that somebody was threatening him and his family and that person did it, so he probably told no one what he was really up to. MOO

[Musterion]

Call me nosey, but I sure would like to see some of the emails between CC and Tara BEFORE the murder. :drool:

I would think if she knew anything about this before, there would have been charges by now.

Don't ya think?

Hi darcie and sunstar,

No. I don't think. Something is missing in this case. Other than Tara's cell phone. :huh:

After following these cases I've become aware that LE allows those they suspect to have a lot of latitude. They are careful not to say suspect or even person of interest.

Even in this case, LE went as far as to say that Chris was NOT a suspect at all.

LE may not have Tara's mother's cell phone, which was lost, but you can be sure that they have or will get the phone records, which may contain text messages or, at the very least, incoming and outgoing numbers that were texted.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Geeez...what was he, crazy, head over heals in in love?

It seems like he never gave it a thought that LE would be looking at him first and foremost? I can't believe all the little flub ups he made.
It's like he was almost desperate, but yet for months he had been plotting/planning about leaving Sheri in SOME WAY. I don't think divorce was an option for him. God only knows why . Embarrassment to the family? or was it a job?


The man left left wayyyyy to much evidence for me to not form an opinon on his guilt. The defense is gonna have to convince me his is NOT guilty. (i'd never make a juror for this one). :laugh:

The gloves, letters on his ocmputer, the mispelled word, the time frame, the girlfriend, the supposed divorce, in over their butts in debt.
It just keeps stacking up.


The thing tha bothers me most, is the kids. I just can't figure out where his mind was when he killed his children.

It's hard to imagine Sheri not seeing this coming. What a wicked web some weave.

:angry:

By the way, thanks for the article sunstar!

I agree, my friend. The children's murders haunt me. To be killed in any manner is horrible, but, in their own little beds where they should be safe, and strangled. It is uncommon and such a tragedy. I think about Sheri's mom and brother and family/friends. Their grief must be unbelievable.

Also, the things you list as obvious of Chris' guilt have always given me pause. Those things are so blatantly pointing that Chris did it. Almost too much so. He had motive and opportunity. He had a reason to want to leave his family. But, for someone who was planning for months, someone who had to have been schooled in forensics and murder scenes and rigor mortis as an MP, it seems odd that he was so.....sloppy.

However, sex and passion and hormones make many of us pretty daft.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I have to agree that LE probably did take her computer, but I guess a search warrant would be filed in St. Petersburg( whatever county that is), right?

It kinda makes me wonder....as much cr*p as I look up on my puter, I hope like heck no one even remotely close to me does something that LE would want to look at my puter for. It would be just my luck!! LOL :ohmy: I'd have lots and lots of explaining to do.

The information let out sure has been nipped in the bud! These defense attornies say nothing darn't!

LOL! You are so funny, Miss darcie!!!

M.

[Amy]

I agree, my friend. The children's murders haunt me. To be killed in any manner is horrible, but, in their own little beds where they should be safe, and strangled. It is uncommon and such a tragedy. I think about Sheri's mom and brother and family/friends. Their grief must be unbelievable.

Also, the things you list as obvious of Chris' guilt have always given me pause. Those things are so blatantly pointing that Chris did it. Almost too much so. He had motive and opportunity. He had a reason to want to leave his family. But, for someone who was planning for months, someone who had to have been schooled in forensics and murder scenes and rigor mortis as an MP, it seems odd that he was so.....sloppy.

However, sex and passion and hormones make many of us pretty daft.

IMO.
M.

Bolding mine.

And, to be betrayed by one of the two people in this world who should be protecting them, not killing them.

[Nellie]

I agree, my friend. The children's murders haunt me. To be killed in any manner is horrible, but, in their own little beds where they should be safe, and strangled. It is uncommon and such a tragedy. I think about Sheri's mom and brother and family/friends. Their grief must be unbelievable.

Also, the things you list as obvious of Chris' guilt have always given me pause. Those things are so blatantly pointing that Chris did it. Almost too much so. He had motive and opportunity. He had a reason to want to leave his family. But, for someone who was planning for months, someone who had to have been schooled in forensics and murder scenes and rigor mortis as an MP, it seems odd that he was so.....sloppy.

However, sex and passion and hormones make many of us pretty daft.

IMO.
M.

Hi Musterion! It's almost so sloppy that it could make you pause for a second and think someone "set him up",right? But then you throw in the "time line" and his lack of emotion afterwards and the scratches on his hand and his follow-up pounding of the gurney and lying that is how he got the scratches....plus the girlfriend and plans to marry her....and telling her that his wife would be served with divorce papers the day she is murdered......all convinces me that he did it and is just that stupid! I've seen some pretty stupid criminals, but I think this one leads them all! Even Scott Peterson was a tad smarter than this one!

[Ontario]

Oh I agree with you! I was just saying that he would be wise to confess (assuming he's guilty) and try to get LWOP because if the DP is available I think the jury would give him that sentence. MOO


For me thet are the samehe is going to live in Hell in his new home.

I really do not hear anything about him, or his Parents!! any info my American friends!

[Ontario]

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/824866.html

Joyce Meyer Ministries ready to provide information on Coleman

*snipped*

Joyce Meyer Ministries says it wants the material kept private, but Jack Carey, a lawyer for the family of Coleman's slain wife Sheri, says the family won't agree to confidentiality.

Why would she need confidentiality, what is she trying to hide?:thumbdown:

[Ice Cycle]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/37621E5458877E8D862575F6000D6E0C?OpenDocument#tp_n ewCommentAnchor

Chris Coleman was texting Tara Lintz day of wake and funeral, saying how much he loved her, missed her, etc.

Then she was using her moms cell phone because the LE had taken hers, an she was communicating with him on it, then lost it at like Disney or Busch Gardens, conveniently enough.

So upon shortly after hearing the news that her soon to be husband (according to her) that his wife and children were violently murdered, she went to Disney and Bush Gardens? Yes indeedy.

[darcie]

Hi everyone. I have to agree with you M and Nellie. He was sloppy, and it almost seems TO easy that he would be the responsible party! Don't get me thinking and making me change my mind by over thinking it....lol. I am so fickle!

Anyway, wanted to add this to the mix:

http://www.bnd.com/homepage/story/847628.html

*snipped*
Lintz also told police that she hadn't received a text message or a phone call from Chris Coleman since May 9,

**but she didn't say she hadn't written him, or him her. I wonder if she has ever talked to his parents????

*snipped* from the same article linked:

But nearly six months before their deaths, Chris Coleman reported to Columbia police that he received a threatening e-mail at his Joyce Meyer Ministries account from the e-mail account "destroychris@gmail.com."

"If I can't get to Joyce, then I will get to someone close to her and if I can't get to him then I will kill his wife and kids," the e-mail stated. "I know Joyce's schedule, so I know Chris' schedule. ... During the Houston conference, I will kill them all as they sleep. If I don't hit there, then I will kill them during the book tour or the trip to India. I know where he lives and I know they are alone."


The search warrant ordered the e-mail provider, Google, to provide the Internet provider address to allow police to track the letter's author.

A subpoena sent to AT&T showed that on the morning of the murders, Chris Coleman called his wife's cell phone at 5:44 a.m. -- just one minute after a surveillance video captured Chris Coleman leaving his home to go to a south St. Louis County gym.

He called Sheri Coleman's cell phone three times after that.

----

this guy is making my head spin. :cursing:

He goes from threatening Joyce Myers, to threatening himself, to threatening his wife and kids. I guess I can see why the family lawyer wants info from JMM on trips, etc.
But it is even written erratically! (hope that is spelled right)!
But he starts in threatening JM, then it goes to threatening someone close to her, he writes *him*, him being Chris. Then he identifies Chris by name, and threatens the wife and kids!

And the phone call a minute after he left? Geeeezzz...I wonder if he told LE that he talked to her after he left for the gym?

I need a wall to knock my head against. :laugh:

[darcie]

Ok...this about did me in!! I would have LOVED to seen that page!

A *Fans of Joyce Meyer Bodyguard* fan club?? :lol: Lordy be, I need that wall NOW!!

Same link as above.

http://www.bnd.com/homepage/story/847628.html

[darcie]

Bolding mine.

And, to be betrayed by one of the two people in this world who should be protecting them, not killing them.

Hi there Amy. I just can't fathom what was going through his mind. In one of the articles last week I think it was, it said the youngest boy was found with a sheet covering him. The sheet had a spray painted message on it also. It never said what THAT particular message was. It sure makes me wonder though. But if i think about what he did to those boys, it almost makes me want to puke. If i was his mom and dad, I couldn't look at him with nothing but disgust in my eyes right now. I mean I know they are supporting him, he is their son...but still, I think I would have to haul off and knock him on his patootie, at least once!!!

I better start putting MOO, or IMO or something on my posts, because I have Chris Coleman tried and convicted!!:sneaky:

So........MOO

[darcie]

Didn't Casey Anthony loose her phone at Disney Universal?

This Tara is pretty shady if you ask me. I wonder exactly how much she knew- I wonder if Chris Coleman didn't have the divorce clause in his contract with Joyce Meyer Sheri and her boys would be alive, such a sad case.


I think you are right about the phone loss at Disney with Casey. Weird huh? I guess they think if they loose the phone, they loose the messages? This day and age it seems that with all our new electronic play toys, we are opening ourselves up like a book to LE.

So take note everyone, if you want to *off* someone, loose the phone AND the computer BEFORE you off them.....:tongueside:

[Nellie]

Why would she need confidentiality, what is she trying to hide?:thumbdown:

My question too.....
Sorry, but I have a hard time trusting multi million $$$ ministries.
And I'm a Christian....

[Nellie]

http://www.bnd.com/homepage/story/847628.html

Snipped for space....Bolding mine

*snipped* from the same article linked:

But nearly six months before their deaths, Chris Coleman reported to Columbia police that he received a threatening e-mail at his Joyce Meyer Ministries account from the e-mail account "destroychris@gmail.com."

"If I can't get to Joyce, then I will get to someone close to her and

if I can't get to him then I will kill his wife and kids,"

the e-mail stated. "I know Joyce's schedule, so I know Chris' schedule. ... During the Houston conference, I will kill them all as they sleep. If I don't hit there, then I will kill them during the book tour or the trip to India. I know where he lives and I know they are alone."



This guy is such an idiot. If this mystery monster was saying he would go after Chris if he could get to him.....my question would be....WHAT PREVENTED THIS MONSTER FROM GETTING TO HIM? Seems to me he could have easily killed him instead of them.....but he didn't, did he?

And he says "I know they are alone". How did he know they were alone that particular morning?

What a rambling, idiotic, bogus email!
This guy sure wasn't very bright, was he?

And then he calls her cell phone a minute after he leaves the house?
Can anyone be THIS STUPID???? Get down the road and "Oh yeah, I better call and wake them up for school" when I could have just woke them up before I left. :mad:

[darcie]

My question too.....
Sorry, but I have a hard time trusting multi million $$$ ministries.
And I'm a Christian....

I'm right there with you Nellie. i posted before I have a problem when religion turns into a business!:thumbdown:

[darcie]

This guy is such an idiot. If this mystery monster was saying he would go after Chris if he could get to him.....my question would be....WHAT PREVENTED THIS MONSTER FROM GETTING TO HIM? Seems to me he could have easily killed him instead of them.....but he didn't, did he?

And he says "I know they are alone". How did he know they were alone that particular morning?

What a rambling, idiotic, bogus email!
This guy sure wasn't very bright, was he?

And then he calls her cell phone a minute after he leaves the house?
Can anyone be THIS STUPID???? Get down the road and "Oh yeah, I better call and wake them up for school" when I could have just woke them up before I left. :mad:


Heeheeeheee...wanna borrow my wall Nellie? lol

I am anxious to see what his attornies come up with as a defense. But yet part of me thinks this guy will plea! Who knows though? He doesn't have much to loose with a trial. Especially if they don't go for the death penalty.

[darcie]

This one is just for you Musterion!! :biggrin:

http://images.stltoday.com/stltoday/resources/colemansearchwarrant051909.pdf

Search warrants for Cellphones
---


it won't let me snip, BUT

it states:

Lintz gave consent to investigators to search her computer.

[darcie]

I promise, this is my last post for a little bit!!

This one should remind people that there are many, many good people in this world! I know i need a reminder every once in awhile. After posting on these boards, and watching the news....it gets...depressing. I always ask myself....What in the world does God think of us now?

I am sure he is smiling down on these good folks.
:smile:
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/st-louis-crime-beat/2009/07/16/bikers-raise-money-for-slain-coleman-family/

Bikers raise money for slain Coleman family

As many of you know, the family of Sheri Coleman wants to build a park pavilion in honor of the slain mother and her two sons. They’ve raised close to $11,000 so far.
This year, the “Bikers Save Lives” benefit ride has partnered with Sheri Coleman’s family to raise money for the memorial site, which will be located in Columbia near the Blue Jay football field, where the boys once played. The motorcycle benefit ride is scheduled for Saturday, August 8, 2009 at 12:30 pm.

[Musterion]

This guy is such an idiot. If this mystery monster was saying he would go after Chris if he could get to him.....my question would be....WHAT PREVENTED THIS MONSTER FROM GETTING TO HIM? Seems to me he could have easily killed him instead of them.....but he didn't, did he?

And he says "I know they are alone". How did he know they were alone that particular morning?

What a rambling, idiotic, bogus email!
This guy sure wasn't very bright, was he?

And then he calls her cell phone a minute after he leaves the house?
Can anyone be THIS STUPID???? Get down the road and "Oh yeah, I better call and wake them up for school" when I could have just woke them up before I left. :mad:

Hi Nellie!

It is very odd to think that someone would hate Joyce Meyer and not threaten her children or grandchildren instead of her security guard.

It's, also, odd that this stalker didn't just follow Chris to the gym, road rage him off the road and kill him there and then. There were many opportunities, I would think, for the stalker to have made good on his promise of killing Chris if he couldn't get to Joyce.

I imagine that it could be said someone mentally deranged and psychotic believed that Chris was a protector of what they see as BS and developed a hatred for him because of that.

It will be interesting to hear any defense.

JMO.
M.

[sunstar]

Didn't Casey Anthony loose her phone at Disney Universal?

This Tara is pretty shady if you ask me. I wonder exactly how much she knew- I wonder if Chris Coleman didn't have the divorce clause in his contract with Joyce Meyer Sheri and her boys would be alive, such a sad case.

Yes, Casey said something like that. I don't believe this story either coming from CC's girlfriend. I'm not sure if the divorce clause would've made any difference since I can't really see CC continuing to work for JMM anyway. I think he wanted a totally different lifestyle. MOO

[sunstar]

Hi Nellie!

It is very odd to think that someone would hate Joyce Meyer and not threaten her children or grandchildren instead of her security guard.

It's, also, odd that this stalker didn't just follow Chris to the gym, road rage him off the road and kill him there and then. There were many opportunities, I would think, for the stalker to have made good on his promise of killing Chris if he couldn't get to Joyce.

I imagine that it could be said someone mentally deranged and psychotic believed that Chris was a protector of what they see as BS and developed a hatred for him because of that.

It will be interesting to hear any defense.

JMO.
M.
(bolding mine)

I completely agree!! Assuming the "killer" was waiting outside the house for CC to leave why didn't he just follow CC and, like you said, kill him that morning? Instead, CC wants us to believe the killer was waiting there and as soon as he drove off, went inside and killed his wife and two children? And with the phone ringing (from CC calling a few times) stayed there long enough to spray paint messages throughout the house? I think he'll need a jury with an IQ of zero! :rolleyes: MOO

[Musterion]

This one is just for you Musterion!! :biggrin:

http://images.stltoday.com/stltoday/resources/colemansearchwarrant051909.pdf

Search warrants for Cellphones
---


it won't let me snip, BUT

it states:

Lintz gave consent to investigators to search her computer.

Oh, thank you, darcie!

The warrant is interesting. It talks about LE finding emails on her computer between Chris and Tara. But, did they do forensics on the computer? I'd like to see what sites and when Tara visited them, how often she checked Sheri's Facebook.

I still am questioning why Chris' dad was the one who told LE about Tara. And stated she was a good friend of Sheri's.

Another thing I noticed, which I don't understand, the search warrant was filed on 14 May 2009. The warrant gives a run down of probable cause, all dates from the time of the murder until 9 May. With one exception. Listed is 3 June as Tara saying she lost her mother's cell phone at Busch Gardens. How did LE put Tara's statement of losing that phone in the warrant? How could they have known on or before 14 May that Tara lost the phone in June? Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Maybe there was an addendum. Any thoughts?

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

(bolding mine)

I completely agree!! Assuming the "killer" was waiting outside the house for CC to leave why didn't he just follow CC and, like you said, kill him that morning? Instead, CC wants us to believe the killer was waiting there and as soon as he drove off, went inside and killed his wife and two children? And with the phone ringing (from CC calling a few times) stayed there long enough to spray paint messages throughout the house? I think he'll need a jury with an IQ of zero! :rolleyes: MOO

Hi sunstar!

It is all just too much. Unless Chris was at a neighbour's house having an affair and didn't come home all night and lied to LE to protect whomever, I can't imagine how the defense is going to combat everything that is coming out.

IMO.
M.

[sunstar]

Hi sunstar!

It is all just too much. Unless Chris was at a neighbour's house having an affair and didn't come home all night and lied to LE to protect whomever, I can't imagine how the defense is going to combat everything that is coming out.

IMO.
M.

Exactly! He'd have to completely remove himself from the house for the night and leave directly from wherever to go to the gym. But if he changed his story he'd have to have a very good explanation for why he lied to LE ~ like you said. And then, which version should the jury believe if he were to admit to lying? MOO

[Ice Cycle]

Exactly! He'd have to completely remove himself from the house for the night and leave directly from wherever to go to the gym. But if he changed his story he'd have to have a very good explanation for why he lied to LE ~ like you said. And then, which version should the jury believe if he were to admit to lying? MOO

Yes but seems like I read that the neighbor's video does show him leaving the house at a certain time and knowone going in after that.
I believe I read that, though I read so much early on now I am not certain.

[Musterion]

Yes but seems like I read that the neighbor's video does show him leaving the house at a certain time and knowone going in after that.
I believe I read that, though I read so much early on now I am not certain.

Hi Ice!

I think you are right. But, what did the video show? Did it show Chris leaving from the garage? Did it show Chris walking from the front door to the driveway to the car? To me, that matters.

No one going into the front of the house, to me doesn't matter. I'd like to see video of the back of the house and, to my knowledge, there isn't any where the screen was taken off and the 'perp' entered.

Lots of questions.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

"Investigators spoke to several of Sheri's friends who have received phone calls, texts and instant messages from Sheri since December 2008. In these conversations Sheri talked about Christopher wanting a divorce. She also talked about arguments she had with Christopher regarding their relationship. Investigators have photographed the text messages and instant messages which were still on the phones of Sheri's friends."

http://www.kmov.com/news/090717_colemandocuments.pdf

IMO.
M.

[Ice Cycle]

Hi Ice!

I think you are right. But, what did the video show? Did it show Chris leaving from the garage? Did it show Chris walking from the front door to the driveway to the car? To me, that matters.

No one going into the front of the house, to me doesn't matter. I'd like to see video of the back of the house and, to my knowledge, there isn't any where the screen was taken off and the 'perp' entered.

Lots of questions.

IMO.
M.

Lots, especially with this new information that he called her a minuet after he left the house, which doesn't make any sense any way you look at it. Obviously they did not answer but I wonder if the plan was to say she did. If he did call there I wonder if he called their landline phone (if they had one) as I don't know, would records show if she picked up on a landline or not?
Boy I bet his Attorney is about to pull his hair out with all the crazy actions.

[Nellie]

Wow, Musterion, that's really interesting to learn Sheri told friends he wanted a divorce. So now I find myself asking.....why not follow through with it? I'm surprised that he even discussed it with Sheri, as I saw him as not even looking at divorce as an option. Why bring up a divorce to her if he planned to kill her anyone? Wow....this is a shocker for me.

[Musterion]

Wow, Musterion, that's really interesting to learn Sheri told friends he wanted a divorce. So now I find myself asking.....why not follow through with it? I'm surprised that he even discussed it with Sheri, as I saw him as not even looking at divorce as an option. Why bring up a divorce to her if he planned to kill her anyone? Wow....this is a shocker for me.

I know, my friend Nellie. I know....

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Lots, especially with this new information that he called her a minuet after he left the house, which doesn't make any sense any way you look at it. Obviously they did not answer but I wonder if the plan was to say she did. If he did call there I wonder if he called their landline phone (if they had one) as I don't know, would records show if she picked up on a landline or not?
Boy I bet his Attorney is about to pull his hair out with all the crazy actions.

Hi Ice,

I think the defense might say that he was so concerned for his family that, as he left for his workout, he felt so uneasy he had to check on Sheri and the kids, so he called immediately.

I agree. I bet his attorney is burning the midnight oil.

IMO.
M.

[Amy]

Hi Ice,

I think the defense might say that he was so concerned for his family that, as he left for his workout, he felt so uneasy he had to check on Sheri and the kids, so he called immediately.

I agree. I bet his attorney is burning the midnight oil.

IMO.
M.

OTOH, if one is so "uneasy" about his family's welfare that he would call a minute after he LEFT the house, one should turn right around and go back INTO that house, and perhaps find some kind of workout to do @ home that day. Or, put off his workout until the boys leave for school, and perhaps take the wife along.

Nope, if I were a juror and heard that his unease caused him to call as he was leaving, I would say, I don't think so. Anyone that concerned would not have called, but would have gone back into that house. IMO

[Amy]

Hi Nellie!

It is very odd to think that someone would hate Joyce Meyer and not threaten her children or grandchildren instead of her security guard.

It's, also, odd that this stalker didn't just follow Chris to the gym, road rage him off the road and kill him there and then. There were many opportunities, I would think, for the stalker to have made good on his promise of killing Chris if he couldn't get to Joyce.

I imagine that it could be said someone mentally deranged and psychotic believed that Chris was a protector of what they see as BS and developed a hatred for him because of that.

It will be interesting to hear any defense.

JMO.
M.

I think he made a mistake starting it out to be a threat against Joyce Meyers. Okay, can't get to her, so get to her security guard--even that is a long stretch. I agree that it would seem that her children and grandchildren would be next on the list--certainly not the security guard's family!!!! IMO.

[sunstar]

Yes but seems like I read that the neighbor's video does show him leaving the house at a certain time and knowone going in after that.
I believe I read that, though I read so much early on now I am not certain.

Oh I know ~ it was just a hypothetical that his defense would have to come up with to completely remove him from the house when his family was killed ~ which wasn't during that hour while he was at the gym. That's just it, nobody is seen coming into the house anytime so he's going to have an awful time saying somebody else killed them. MOO

[sunstar]

"Investigators spoke to several of Sheri's friends who have received phone calls, texts and instant messages from Sheri since December 2008. In these conversations Sheri talked about Christopher wanting a divorce. She also talked about arguments she had with Christopher regarding their relationship. Investigators have photographed the text messages and instant messages which were still on the phones of Sheri's friends."

http://www.kmov.com/news/090717_colemandocuments.pdf

IMO.
M.
This is very interesting news! So why wasn't it followed through with? Did Sheri not agree to a divorce, or was it JMM's "policy" that stood in the way? :confused:



o/t I love your signature. Those verses are on a memorial for the victims of TWA800 on Long Island. :rose:

[Ice Cycle]

Coleman text message to girlfriend is revealed

07/16/2009

WATERLOO — New search warrants filed today in the Monroe County courthouse revealed that Tara Lintz, Chris Coleman's girlfriend, received text messages from Coleman on the day of his wife and sons' funeral May 9.

In addition, the documents state that the latex glove found lying on the side of Interstate 255 near the Jefferson Barracks Bridge had remnants of red spray paint. Police say they saw obscene messages spray painted in red on the walls of the Columbia, Ill., home where the family was slain May 5. In the upstairs bedrooms, Coleman's wife, Sheri, 31, and sons Garett, 11, and Gavin, 9, were found strangled.

Investigators went to Coleman's place of employment, at Joyce Meyer Ministries, and found a box of gloves similar to the one found on the side of the highway, the documents say. The box of gloves was found in the security manager's office of the ministries. Coleman was Joyce Meyer's chief of security.

more at http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/C9B9DAA1B15F1366862575F5007A36C7?OpenDocument#tp_n ewCommentAnchor

snipped for space

Just wondering about what is said in this article, are they referring to the security manager as the same as chief of security? Another words, they were found in his desk?

[sunstar]

snipped for space

Just wondering about what is said in this article, are they referring to the security manager as the same as chief of security? Another words, they were found in his desk?

I think that's what it means. Same gloves found alongside the highway and in his office. He's sunk! MOO

[EMAA]

This is very interesting news! So why wasn't it followed through with? Did Sheri not agree to a divorce, or was it JMM's "policy" that stood in the way? :confused:



o/t I love your signature. Those verses are on a memorial for the victims of TWA800 on Long Island. :rose:

If Coleman was "Chief of Security" that would indicate he holds a position of leadership, which would be violated by the scripture that states if a man cannot lead his household, neither can he lead in the church. Usually apart of the Churches Misson Statement or by-laws. jmo

[darcie]

Joyce Meyer attorney delivers Coleman documents for review by slain wife's lawyer

http://www.bnd.com/372/story/851125.html

[darcie]

Judge will hear issue of ministry seeking confidentiality in Coleman wrongful death case
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/BFD572A057010E0E862575F9005E699C?OpenDocument
*snipped*
Attorneys were unable to reach an agreement today over confidentiality in Sheri Coleman's wrongful death lawsuit against Chris Coleman.
*snipped*
A judge will hear the issue of the confidentiality at 1 p.m. Sheri Coleman's familiy filed the suit shortly after the murders.

[Ice Cycle]

Judge rules against Joyce Meyer Ministries in Coleman wrongful death lawsuit
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/BFD572A057010E0E862575F9005E699C?OpenDocument


Judge: Joyce Meyer Ministries to release documents (http://boards.insessiontrials.com/Judge%20rules%20against%20Joyce%20Meyer%20Ministri es%20in%20Coleman%20wrongful%20death%20lawsuit)

http://www.kmov.com/

[darcie]

Thanks for the update Ice Cycle!

*snipped from the link*
Enrico Mirabelli, a Chicago lawyer representing Sheri Coleman's family, said the whole wrongful death case began with security threats to Joyce Meyer, referring to the death threats police say Coleman sent to Meyer and himself.

--I read this as threats were also sent to JM herself. Or am i reading it wrong?

[Ice Cycle]

Thanks for the update Ice Cycle!

*snipped from the link*
Enrico Mirabelli, a Chicago lawyer representing Sheri Coleman's family, said the whole wrongful death case began with security threats to Joyce Meyer, referring to the death threats police say Coleman sent to Meyer and himself.

--I read this as threats were also sent to JM herself. Or am i reading it wrong?

No I think that is right but I think they are saying the threats came from Chris C, the same as he evidently sent to himself. Probably the strongest piece of evidence imo that they have against him is the misspelled word on the threats and his own personal documents. Obviously thought he was too smart for spellcheck.

[sunstar]

Judge rules against Joyce Meyer Ministries in Coleman wrongful death lawsuit
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/BFD572A057010E0E862575F9005E699C?OpenDocument


Judge: Joyce Meyer Ministries to release documents (http://boards.insessiontrials.com/Judge%20rules%20against%20Joyce%20Meyer%20Ministri es%20in%20Coleman%20wrongful%20death%20lawsuit)

http://www.kmov.com/

Thanks so much for the updates! I think the Judge did the right thing. MOO

[sunstar]

No I think that is right but I think they are saying the threats came from Chris C, the same as he evidently sent to himself. Probably the strongest piece of evidence imo that they have against him is the misspelled word on the threats and his own personal documents. Obviously thought he was too smart for spellcheck.

I like the last part about him thinking he was too smart for spellcheck! :laugh: Isn't that the way it usually goes ~ that these criminals think they're so smart they're going to get away with fooling LE and everyone else and they're tripped up by the most stupid things. MOO

[Ice Cycle]

I like the last part about him thinking he was too smart for spellcheck! :laugh: Isn't that the way it usually goes ~ that these criminals think they're so smart they're going to get away with fooling LE and everyone else and they're tripped up by the most stupid things. MOO

I know and I think this guy tops the list. I am beginning to think maybe he was on something and just went into a rage. I mean who would go to the trouble to plan for months with the threat letters and then do some of the stupid things he did, evil but stupid/careless/evil???

[Musterion]

I know and I think this guy tops the list. I am beginning to think maybe he was on something and just went into a rage. I mean who would go to the trouble to plan for months with the threat letters and then do some of the stupid things he did, evil but stupid/careless/evil???

Hi Ice and everyone,

Does Sheri knowing Chris wanted a divorce since December, according to friends of hers, make any difference in this case? In anyone's opinion, and how?

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Wow, Musterion, that's really interesting to learn Sheri told friends he wanted a divorce. So now I find myself asking.....why not follow through with it? I'm surprised that he even discussed it with Sheri, as I saw him as not even looking at divorce as an option. Why bring up a divorce to her if he planned to kill her anyone? Wow....this is a shocker for me.

Nellie,

I am curious as to why there is a lack of response to Sheri knowing Chris wanted out of their marriage.

To me, this adds a new perspective and thought. Not that she and the boys deserved to die, God forbid. But, what transpired.

IMO.
M.

[darcie]

Morning everyone! You guys have brought up good questions about Sheri knowing Chris wanted a divorce~~MaYBe the marriage counseling Chris mentioned was recently? Maybe Sheri thought that things were being worked out, and Chris was sweating because things were not working out as he had planned? Maybe Sheri was under the impression that Chris was unhappy, wanted a divorce, but was willing to try and work it out. Maybe Sheri threatened to take Chris to the, so called cleaners, if he divorced her. Maybe he felt threatened materialistically by her. I am assuming that Sheri didn't know about Tara though. Maybe she did know?

I don't know. It is so hard to *guess* what took place.
It is hard for ME to imagine wanting to remain married to someone that was ready to move on, and had no desire to be married to me.


As I have said before, there are no leaks from friends, family members, lawyers.....no one! Good for the case, but it sure plays havoc on trying to second guess what went on!!:scared:

[darcie]

I can't help but think JMM better hold on for the ride! Whether they like it or not, and whether it is substaniated or not, I have a feeling the ministry is going to be smack dab in the middle of things.

[Ice Cycle]

Morning everyone! You guys have brought up good questions about Sheri knowing Chris wanted a divorce~~MaYBe the marriage counseling Chris mentioned was recently? Maybe Sheri thought that things were being worked out, and Chris was sweating because things were not working out as he had planned? Maybe Sheri was under the impression that Chris was unhappy, wanted a divorce, but was willing to try and work it out. Maybe Sheri threatened to take Chris to the, so called cleaners, if he divorced her. Maybe he felt threatened materialistically by her. I am assuming that Sheri didn't know about Tara though. Maybe she did know?

I don't know. It is so hard to *guess* what took place.
It is hard for ME to imagine wanting to remain married to someone that was ready to move on, and had no desire to be married to me.


As I have said before, there are no leaks from friends, family members, lawyers.....no one! Good for the case, but it sure plays havoc on trying to second guess what went on!!:scared:

Hello,
What I have wondered is about the counseling they supposedly did, I just wonder if possibly the JMM divorce prohibit had some type of stimulation making allowances if counseling had been done. Or possible he thought it would make a difference since he was her chief of security, (by the way some Chief).

[kelloggirl]

Hi Ice and everyone,

Does Sheri knowing Chris wanted a divorce since December, according to friends of hers, make any difference in this case? In anyone's opinion, and how?

IMO.
M.

Haven't posted here in awhile but, this is information is interesting to me. It certainly doesn't change my mind even one bit about who committed the crimes, but I guess if I was the defense I might spin it this way to maybe try to get down to second-degree murder:

Chris had no intention of killing Sheri, he wanted a divorce. She refused because of the boys, or religious reasons, or whatever. He sent the threatening messages to maybe cause her to think that her and the boys would be in danger and she would be better off with the divorce and getting away from him. He never planned to kill her, but this night they had a huge fight and it got violent. Once she was dead, he had no choice but to stage it and kill the boys too, taking advantage of the threat he made. So, it's second-degree murder, not first.

That's the best I can do, and some might buy it, but personally, I can't get past a few things, mainly the killing of the boys. He didn't have to do that. The threats for just being threats sounds weak. He had to have bought gloves and paint in advance. And finally, ligature strangulation doesn't indicate "heat of the moment" to me. Bare-handed, yes, I could buy that. But not with something. Also, if Sheri was killed in her sleep, that's another strike against that theory.

Arrogance. These killers are always brought down by arrogance. I'm sure he thought he knew how to cover his tracks. I'm sure he thought police were not as smart as him. I'm sure they thought they would by his lies.

Count me in on those who believe Tara knew what was going to happen. Maybe not in on the planning, but at least had a feeling. Or at a minimum, doesn't seem to care.

And way to go Chris, you couldn't even hold off on sending your lover text messages from your wife's funeral and wake. You are as heartless and idiotic and led by your lower extremities as Scotty Peterson, and you will likely end up in the same place.

[sunstar]

Hi Ice and everyone,

Does Sheri knowing Chris wanted a divorce since December, according to friends of hers, make any difference in this case? In anyone's opinion, and how?

IMO.
M.

It does make me wonder why it never happened. Did Sheri not want a divorce? By CC bringing it up, it seems he thought it would be ok with JMM. He would also have known he'd have to pay child support and possibly alimony if Sheri agreed to the divorce. So I think what happened is Sheri didn't want one so he reverted to "plan B" and killed all of them. The thing that doesn't make sense is the "threatening e-mails" started in November and Sheri starts telling her friends about him wanting a divorce a month later? I think it should be the other way around. He'd mention the divorce first, then if she refused, start in with the threatening stuff once he decided murder was his "way out". Another thing ~ him asking for a divorce and her refusing seems to go along with some of the spray-painted messages, which almost blame her for the fact she & the boys were killed. :shrug: MOO

[Nellie]

Ok, I'm "thinking out loud" here.
Maybe.....Chris was unhappy and wanted a divorce.
Because of her religious beliefs, Sheri wanted to try to "save the marriage" and he agreed to go to counseling.
He learned through this counseling that a man in "leadership" could not continue to be in "leadership" and divorce. He also learned that a divorce would not allow him to remarry....but death would (according to scripture). So, maybe that is when he decided to move on in his life and keep his standing with JMM, his family needed to die. Sad to think of, huh?

[sunstar]

Ok, I'm "thinking out loud" here.
Maybe.....Chris was unhappy and wanted a divorce.
Because of her religious beliefs, Sheri wanted to try to "save the marriage" and he agreed to go to counseling.
He learned through this counseling that a man in "leadership" could not continue to be in "leadership" and divorce. He also learned that a divorce would not allow him to remarry....but death would (according to scripture). So, maybe that is when he decided to move on in his life and keep his standing with JMM, his family needed to die. Sad to think of, huh?

Good thoughts!! But the timing still seems backward, unless he'd discussed divorce with Sheri a couple of months before she told her friends. That would give her time to say she didn't want one and him to come up with the threatening email as the start to his plan to get rid of her & the boys. I can see him agreeing to the counseling, etc., and her thinking everything had been worked out, until maybe she found out he was seeing somebody or wasn't sincere about them staying together which triggered the timing for the murders. MOO

[Ice Cycle]

Well I have a couple of theories (at least today), the threats was the plan but she suggest the counseling and he then though that possibly if he went to counseling then JMM would see that he tried and not fire him and the plan went to plan B. Sherri found out that day about what's her name and threatened to tell JMM (remember she was also involved in the Ministry) and their was a large fight. He then moved plan B to A and did it that night to prevent her from telling and since the boys heard the fight he included them.

My second theory is a little out there but it explains a few things, in my mind anyway. He started sending the threat letters months before and the reason was to get JMM to pay for him/them a security system. Sherri might of suggest the system since he was away alot at night but he didn't want to spend the $ since they were having financial problems. He started seeing what's her name about that time and did not want to stop the out of town meetings either. The rest is about the same, he told her he wanted a divorce and she suggested counseling. He did not try and still wanted it and she that day found out about her. Their was a large fight & he was in a rage thinking she would tell JMM. While they were sleeping he concluded the plan to use the threats and a perp and include the sons knowing they heard the fight. I guess my only reason for even thinking of this is due to his careless actions just doesn't appear like someone who gave this alot of thought. Of course I realize that could be just plain undeserving arrogance.

[darcie]

Coleman documents from Joyce Meyer Ministries to be given to lawyers, not public

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/853300.html

More than 400 pages of Joyce Meyer Ministries documents filed in a wrongful death lawsuit against former employee Christopher Coleman will be released Thursday to plaintiff's lawyers, but not to the public.

The documents were at the Monroe County Circuit Clerk's office Tuesday being copied. They will be placed under seal until 2 p.m. Thursday, when they are set to be released to Jack Carey, the attorney who represents murder victim Sheri Coleman's mother and brother in the wrongful death lawsuit filed against Christopher Coleman.

"Discovery is no longer filed with the court," Carey explained Tuesday. "The court files just became too voluminous to handle all those documents. The documents are only entered into the court record if there's a dispute."

[sunstar]

Nancy Grace is covering the case tonight. :smile:

[sunstar]

On Nancy's show ~ It's the same thing we've already discussed, about the text messages CC sent his mistress from the funeral "I love you, I miss you". Jean Casares is talking about the video of CC with his parents at the memorial service. Jean explaining how LE got hold of the text messages (wireless transmission "air card") and how they originally found out about the mistress. Nancy also showing the threatening e-mail that CC sent himself. Marc Klaas is also on the show saying very little difference between CC & other sociopathic killers who feel divorce is not an option and feel nothing about totally erasing their family. Sheri's cousin Enrico Mirabelli on talking about the text messages. He says it says a lot about who CC really is. :sad:

[sunstar]

Nancy and an expert are stressing the point that the electronic transmissions ("footprints") are foolproof evidence that CC sent the threatening e-mails to himself.

[kelloggirl]

On Nancy's show ~ It's the same thing we've already discussed, about the text messages CC sent his mistress from the funeral "I love you, I miss you". Jean Casares is talking about the video of CC with his parents at the memorial service. Jean explaining how LE got hold of the text messages (wireless transmission "air card") and how they originally found out about the mistress. Nancy also showing the threatening e-mail that CC sent himself. Marc Klaas is also on the show saying very little difference between CC & other sociopathic killers who feel divorce is not an option and feel nothing about totally erasing their family. Sheri's cousin Enrico Mirabelli on talking about the text messages. He says it says a lot about who CC really is. :sad:

Thanks for the update, Sunstar. I tuned in to Nancy Grace about 10 minutes in to see if she was still talking about Michael Jackson, and she was, so I assumed it would be all MJ for the whole hour.

Very good to know that they have definite proof that he sent the emails to himself. That strengthens the case against him, considering that he went out of his way to stage it so that the threats and the murder seemed connected. If he hadn't gone so overboard, the defense might - might have been able to argue that it was a random intruder unconnected to the threats.

[Ontario]

Thanks for the update, Sunstar. I tuned in to Nancy Grace about 10 minutes in to see if she was still talking about Michael Jackson, and she was, so I assumed it would be all MJ for the whole hour.

Very good to know that they have definite proof that he sent the emails to himself. That strengthens the case against him, considering that he went out of his way to stage it so that the threats and the murder seemed connected. If he hadn't gone so overboard, the defense might - might have been able to argue that it was a random intruder unconnected to the threats.

Not only that, but know they know, he started to call his house 1 minute after he left his house, that also was on the Nancy Grace Show last night, do you not think his parents should tell him to Plead Guilty, as so much money is being wasted, whoever is paying his Lawyer fees, taxes that it is costing the American People, but also for what he is putting both familes through, let the chips fall where they may. As what The Mark Hacking Family did!! Any Response

[Amy]

Not only that, but know they know, he started to call his house 1 minute after he left his house, that also was on the Nancy Grace Show last night, do you not think his parents should tell him to Plead Guilty, as so much money is being wasted, whoever is paying his Lawyer fees, taxes that it is costing the American People, but also for what he is putting both familes through, let the chips fall where they may. As what The Mark Hacking Family did!! Any Response

I agree. I guess that someone who is able to kill his family isn't the type to worry about spending someone else's money (whether it's his family's or the taxpayers) to put off the inevitable. I hear that life in jail is pretty cushy compared to what life in prison would be like. Nor would a person like that worry about how his actions affect not only his side of the family, but also Sheri's family.

I think the Hacking family are fine, upstanding people.

[darcie]

Coleman lawyers to get Major Case Squad reports in triple murder case
Prosecutors have 21 days to hand over documents
http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/856180.html

A judge on Thursday gave prosecutors 21 days to turn over police reports to Christopher Coleman's defense lawyers.

Associate Judge Stephen Rice issued the order after a status conference in the criminal case against Coleman, who is accused of murdering his wife and two sons. He has pleaded not guilty.

William Margulis, an attorney for Coleman, told Rice he had not yet received investigative reports from the Major Case Squad of Greater St. Louis, which handled the investigation. It is standard in criminal cases for the prosecution to have to provide police reports to the defense
I expect these police reports will be quite extensive and voluminous, so that could be the reason for the delay," Margulis said, adding the reports are usually catalogued and indexed

[Crimejunkie]

Hi there,

I am new to the forum but have been following this case. I keep hearing hints that something is not right with Coleman's family - the Rev Ron Coleman, etc. I am eager to read more about his family, their actions and inactions. Can anyone direct me to a site where I can learn more?

Or does anyone here know that family and can lend some insight?

Thanks

BTW, it is a sad and appalling case but I am fascinated/nauseated by the actions of narcissists like CC. And I wonder how a person like him
gets created.

Thanks

[sunstar]

Thanks for the update, Sunstar. I tuned in to Nancy Grace about 10 minutes in to see if she was still talking about Michael Jackson, and she was, so I assumed it would be all MJ for the whole hour.

Very good to know that they have definite proof that he sent the emails to himself. That strengthens the case against him, considering that he went out of his way to stage it so that the threats and the murder seemed connected. If he hadn't gone so overboard, the defense might - might have been able to argue that it was a random intruder unconnected to the threats.

You're most welcome :smile: I was pleasantly surprised she was talking about this case again! I also agree with you about the defense and the term "overboard" is very fitting with what he did to try to make it look like somebody else committed the crimes ~ but yet he was so stupid, imo, to call the house so soon after leaving, sending LE on a welfare check, etc. in addition to sending the "threats". :sneaky: MOO

[sunstar]

Not only that, but know they know, he started to call his house 1 minute after he left his house, that also was on the Nancy Grace Show last night, do you not think his parents should tell him to Plead Guilty, as so much money is being wasted, whoever is paying his Lawyer fees, taxes that it is costing the American People, but also for what he is putting both familes through, let the chips fall where they may. As what The Mark Hacking Family did!! Any Response

I would hope he'd admit to what he did, but it just depends how sociopathic he is, imo. He probably doesn't care about taxpayers money, his parents feelings, or anybody else except himself. Somebody who can kill his two children while they sleep doesn't seem to have much of a conscience. MOO

[darcie]

Hey there crimejunkie! Welcome to the boards. This case is a cruel, eye opener. An average American, middle class family cruelly silented. All but 1 that is. Only the trial will show what really happened that night. Chris Colemanm will have the right to remain silent, while his family will be trying to speak from their grave. I am usually a person that tries to listen to both sides....this one is going to be hard for me to do just that. I view Christopher Coleman as the evil culprit. Maybe the defense team will be able to open my eyes.

I don't know much about the Coleman family. Actually i don't know anything except what has been reported in the papers. Unlike most cases I tend to follow, this one has been eerily silent on both sides. As it should be I suppose. I am just used to hearing so many leaks. Family members on BOTH sides remain silent. Friends of Sheri remain silent. Friends of Chris remain silent.

I hope the truth is heard, and the murderer is behind bars for the rest of his natural life.

Again, welcome to Insession. Things are slow on the case right now, but I think when it gets closer to trial, lots of eyes will be watching.

[firefly75]

Christopher Coleman, accused of strangling his wife and two sons, told Joyce Meyer Ministries in his job application that he worked with the U.S. Secret Service protecting President Bill Clinton and other heads of state.






http://www.bnd.com/breaking_news/story/860282.html

[Ice Cycle]

He received $28k backdated for a 13 months which is about 30K, wonder if that was a lump sum and wasn't that about the time for the restructure of their Mortgage and put into his name?




The document also showed that Coleman received a $10,000 advance the day after his wife and sons were found murdered.

In February, Christopher Coleman's salary rose from $72,000 a year to $100,000 a year. The increase was back-dated to Dec. 14, 2007. It also noted that Christopher Coleman traveled 170 days a year.

http://www.bnd.com/breaking_news/story/860282.html (http://www.bnd.com/breaking_news/story/860282.html)

[darcie]

This is the St. Louis Post Dispatch's update:

Records released in Coleman case
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/08B112BFC7AA98FF86257601000EC805?OpenDocument

This is the Post's Homepage: it has a picture of Joyce Myer's Compound. Huge!!

http://www.stltoday.com/#stl-masthead

[Ice Cycle]

This is the St. Louis Post Dispatch's update:

Records released in Coleman case
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/08B112BFC7AA98FF86257601000EC805?OpenDocument

This is the Post's Homepage: it has a picture of Joyce Myer's Compound. Huge!!

http://www.stltoday.com/#stl-masthead

Ms Darcie,

I don't see a picture of the Compound and I have looked on both links. I did read some of the documents released and just wondering since their is not that many if their are more to come. I was hoping that would release the JMM handbook and not just the page he signed as I wanted to see what it said about divorce.

[sunstar]

Christopher Coleman, accused of strangling his wife and two sons, told Joyce Meyer Ministries in his job application that he worked with the U.S. Secret Service protecting President Bill Clinton and other heads of state.

http://www.bnd.com/breaking_news/story/860282.html

Thanks so much for the new info! Isn't CC only in his early 30s? This would have to be while he was in the USMC, imo, as it's been 9 yrs. since Pres. Clinton left office. :confused: MOO

[Crimejunkie]

Darcie, thanks for your response and welcome.

I will be patient and hope that someone who lives in Chester might see this board and have some info/insight for me.

[darcie]

Ms Darcie,

I don't see a picture of the Compound and I have looked on both links. I did read some of the documents released and just wondering since their is not that many if their are more to come. I was hoping that would release the JMM handbook and not just the page he signed as I wanted to see what it said about divorce.

Darn't~ I am sorry about that Ice Cycle. It was on the front page. The Post always has like the four leading stories with a block that changes pictures. They had an arial view. Maybe

i can find another one! I'll do some searching!!

[Ice Cycle]

Darn't~ I am sorry about that Ice Cycle. It was on the front page. The Post always has like the four leading stories with a block that changes pictures. They had an arial view. Maybe

i can find another one! I'll do some searching!!

Well thanks but don't go to alot of trouble, I will take your word on it. What I read it does sound like their might be more documents released on Thursday.

[kelloggirl]

Darcie, thanks for your response and welcome.

I will be patient and hope that someone who lives in Chester might see this board and have some info/insight for me.

Hi Crimejunkie, welcome!

One source of information that I remember discussing the family and their actions was the Nancy Grace show, when Sherri's cousin was visiting, his name is Enrico. If you don't know how to access/search those transcripts, I'll see what I can find tomorrow.

Also, you might want to check the Links thread HERE (http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=353744) where lots of links to articles can be found.

[Nellie]

Christopher Coleman, accused of strangling his wife and two sons, told Joyce Meyer Ministries in his job application that he worked with the U.S. Secret Service protecting President Bill Clinton and other heads of state.






http://www.bnd.com/breaking_news/story/860282.html

Oh my! :ohmy:

[darcie]

Oh my! :ohmy:



LOL....i wonder if it is true? I guess it has to be, why or how could you lie about something like that? But as sunstar pointed out, he would have been a young pup!

[Ice Cycle]

Oh my! :ohmy:

What is listed on his employment application to JMM was while in the USMC for 4 years he served on numerous Presidential and Heads of State security details. What stood out to me is he left the USMC in 1999 and worked for a Health Center in Security from 5-01-2000 to 11-2000 which is evidently where he was when filling out the application and he lists his salary as $431 a week, which is about 10.00 a hour. Yet it states that at least by 2007 he was making 72,000 with JMM and then a raise to 100,000 at the end of 2008 which was to be back dated to 2007. So what that means that in 2000 before starting at JMM he was making about 20,000 a year and 8 years later would be making 100,000 a year after the recent raise. I could not see what he started out making at JMM but it certainly appears that it was way above the typical 3 or 4 percent raise. If the regulations does state no divorce then I think LE might of found motive. Evil motive but still. See employment application to JMM in 2000 below and the raise document.

http://images.stltoday.com/stltoday/resources/colemanemployment.pdf

http://images.stltoday.com/stltoday/resources/colemansalary.pdf

[Nellie]

LOL....i wonder if it is true? I guess it has to be, why or how could you lie about something like that? But as sunstar pointed out, he would have been a young pup!

Personally....I think it's a lie. Reminds me of that other dude that killed his wife (name escapes me) and he passed himself off as a college man and wasn't.

Wow.....this is going to be an interesting case to follow.
I already have so many questions.
Why such a large salary increase at the end of the year?
That's some raise!
Why the $10,000 wage advance the day after his family is murdered? For their funerals? Or for his attorney fees?
And since it was an advance....on wages not earned....but then he resigned/got fired....will he have to pay that back to JMM?
Interesting comments over on that news article.
I admit to laughing about his work requirements of "born again" and "speaking in tongues"....especially the "speaking in tongues". I wonder if he had to demonstrate that "spiritual gift"? I wonder if he would not have been hired if he didn't "speak in tongues". And my biggest question is.....if this "speaking in tongues" was a gift of the Holy Spirit, how can such evil and the Holy Spirit dwell in the same body?

[sunstar]

Personally....I think it's a lie. Reminds me of that other dude that killed his wife (name escapes me) and he passed himself off as a college man and wasn't.

Wow.....this is going to be an interesting case to follow.
I already have so many questions.
Why such a large salary increase at the end of the year?
That's some raise!
Why the $10,000 wage advance the day after his family is murdered? For their funerals? Or for his attorney fees?
And since it was an advance....on wages not earned....but then he resigned/got fired....will he have to pay that back to JMM?
Interesting comments over on that news article.
I admit to laughing about his work requirements of "born again" and "speaking in tongues"....especially the "speaking in tongues". I wonder if he had to demonstrate that "spiritual gift"? I wonder if he would not have been hired if he didn't "speak in tongues". And my biggest question is.....if this "speaking in tongues" was a gift of the Holy Spirit, how can such evil and the Holy Spirit dwell in the same body?
You're thinking of Mark Hacking, who claimed he was accepted into medical school? Yes, there's a big difference between MP duty as a Marine and actually being in the Secret Service. It sounds like the $10K might have been for the family's funeral expenses, but once he resigned I'm sure it would have to be repaid. Maybe he never cashed the check. I don't find the requirements for employment too unusual ~ it's often common just for membership in some churches. You do have a very good question about good and evil. :smile: MOO

[Ice Cycle]

Personally....I think it's a lie. Reminds me of that other dude that killed his wife (name escapes me) and he passed himself off as a college man and wasn't.

Wow.....this is going to be an interesting case to follow.
I already have so many questions.
Why such a large salary increase at the end of the year?
That's some raise!
Why the $10,000 wage advance the day after his family is murdered? For their funerals? Or for his attorney fees?
And since it was an advance....on wages not earned....but then he resigned/got fired....will he have to pay that back to JMM?
Interesting comments over on that news article.
I admit to laughing about his work requirements of "born again" and "speaking in tongues"....especially the "speaking in tongues". I wonder if he had to demonstrate that "spiritual gift"? I wonder if he would not have been hired if he didn't "speak in tongues". And my biggest question is.....if this "speaking in tongues" was a gift of the Holy Spirit, how can such evil and the Holy Spirit dwell in the same body?

As far as the 10k advance goes it could of very well been that he had not yet gotten the back dated part of his raise and ask for it in a lump sum or he just asked for it for funeral expenses. Somewhere I read that though he had alot of life ins that she did not and no new policy had been taken out (not sure how true that is and don't have a link). As far as the "speaking in tongue" on the application goes, I just can't even say how ridiculous I think that is. Of course I am a believer that no personal questions should be asked on a employment application that doesn't pertain to the ability to do the job. Other than criminal background, so that being on there is just outlandish to me. I mean even if one applies at a Bank they do not ask who you Bank with or is it required that one banks with them. Same as if you work for a auto dealership it is not necessary to buy that brand of car, as so on. If it was a application to join their Ministry that might be another thing. Of course most people that did not believe in that "type" of religion would probably not be applying for employment there but still. I am sure that is one reason JMM did not want the records made public.

[Amy]

As far as the 10k advance goes it could of very well been that he had not yet gotten the back dated part of his raise and ask for it in a lump sum or he just asked for it for funeral expenses. Somewhere I read that though he had alot of life ins that she did not and no new policy had been taken out (not sure how true that is and don't have a link). As far as the "speaking in tongue" on the application goes, I just can't even say how ridiculous I think that is. Of course I am a believer that no personal questions should be asked on a employment application that doesn't pertain to the ability to do the job. Other than criminal background, so that being on there is just outlandish to me. I mean even if one applies at a Bank they do not ask who you Bank with or is it required that one banks with them. Same as if you work for a auto dealership it is not necessary to buy that brand of car, as so on. If it was a application to join their Ministry that might be another thing. Of course most people that did not believe in that "type" of religion would probably not be applying for employment there but still. I am sure that is one reason JMM did not want the records made public.

I can see this not being a question per se on the application. But, I could see the application including something about what you feel are additional quailifications, or one that I do see on applications--what are your strengths. Perhaps it was an open ended question like that, and CC felt the need to expound greatly on his religious background since the job was for a religious organization. Maybe thinking being VERY religious as so to be able to talk in tongues even, would make an impression and give him a tad bit of a boost above other applicants?

[Ice Cycle]

I can see this not being a question per se on the application. But, I could see the application including something about what you feel are additional quailifications, or one that I do see on applications--what are your strengths. Perhaps it was an open ended question like that, and CC felt the need to expound greatly on his religious background since the job was for a religious organization. Maybe thinking being VERY religious as so to be able to talk in tongues even, would make an impression and give him a tad bit of a boost above other applicants?


No it flat out ask, "When did you start speaking in tongues?"
and it also ask "When did your spouse begin speaking in tongues?

This is the link that I posted earlier, scroll down past employment to where it states Spiritual Criteria Form.

http://images.stltoday.com/stltoday/resources/colemanemployment.pdf

[Amy]

No it flat out ask, "When did you start speaking in tongues?"
and it also ask "When did your spouse begin speaking in tongues?

This is the link that I posted earlier, scroll down past employment to where it states Spiritual Criteria Form.

http://images.stltoday.com/stltoday/resources/colemanemployment.pdf

Sorry, I couldn't access them last night, and forgot to look again before I let my fingers loose on the keyboard today.

Hmmm....I don't know. The first part of the application looks pretty normal. Maybe, because it is tax exempt (I would assume) because it is a religious organizaton, that they don't have to worry about asking questions one could not be asked in any other type of business?

Interesting that he only answered the questions, and did not offer any other information about his religious background or qualifications, etc. But, I guess, once you are into speaking in tongues, most everything else shrinks by comparison?

I wonder if Sheri spoke in tongues, or if he just took the liberty to say so on the application?

[Ice Cycle]

Sorry, I couldn't access them last night, and forgot to look again before I let my fingers loose on the keyboard today.

Hmmm....I don't know. The first part of the application looks pretty normal. Maybe, because it is tax exempt (I would assume) because it is a religious organizaton, that they don't have to worry about asking questions one could not be asked in any other type of business?

Interesting that he only answered the questions, and did not offer any other information about his religious background or qualifications, etc. But, I guess, once you are into speaking in tongues, most everything else shrinks by comparison?

I wonder if Sheri spoke in tongues, or if he just took the liberty to say so on the application?


But, I guess, once you are into speaking in tongues, most everything else shrinks by comparison?

Right!

I wonder if Sheri spoke in tongues, or if he just took the liberty to say so on the application?

Maybe that comes with learning to speak in tongue, not that I ever want to know!

[sunstar]

Sorry, I couldn't access them last night, and forgot to look again before I let my fingers loose on the keyboard today.

Hmmm....I don't know. The first part of the application looks pretty normal. Maybe, because it is tax exempt (I would assume) because it is a religious organizaton, that they don't have to worry about asking questions one could not be asked in any other type of business?

Interesting that he only answered the questions, and did not offer any other information about his religious background or qualifications, etc. But, I guess, once you are into speaking in tongues, most everything else shrinks by comparison?

I wonder if Sheri spoke in tongues, or if he just took the liberty to say so on the application?

If the ministry has specific beliefs, I can understand why they would want their employees to be of like mind. Since Pentecostals believe this is a gift of the Holy Spirit I'd imagine the applicant possessing this gift is of great importance, as well as knowing when the applicant was baptized, previous church membership and so forth. I'd think though it would be something that maybe CC could "fake" as it isn't like saying he's fluent in Spanish, for example, which could easily be found out to be untrue if he wasn't. :shrug: MOO

[Musterion]

Morning everyone! You guys have brought up good questions about Sheri knowing Chris wanted a divorce~~MaYBe the marriage counseling Chris mentioned was recently? Maybe Sheri thought that things were being worked out, and Chris was sweating because things were not working out as he had planned? Maybe Sheri was under the impression that Chris was unhappy, wanted a divorce, but was willing to try and work it out. Maybe Sheri threatened to take Chris to the, so called cleaners, if he divorced her. Maybe he felt threatened materialistically by her. I am assuming that Sheri didn't know about Tara though. Maybe she did know?

I don't know. It is so hard to *guess* what took place.
It is hard for ME to imagine wanting to remain married to someone that was ready to move on, and had no desire to be married to me.


As I have said before, there are no leaks from friends, family members, lawyers.....no one! Good for the case, but it sure plays havoc on trying to second guess what went on!!:scared:

Hi everyone,

Good work and thank you for providing all the news and links the last few weeks! I'm still trying to catch up and am thankful you all have posted to make it easier to do that!

You know, one of the first things that came to mind when it was reported that Sheri knew Chris wanted a divorce, was: why didn't Chris tell LE that when they interviewed him, ever? It was reported that he told LE that they had a good marriage, other than the marriage counseling.

Why would he not say that he had told Sheri, since December, that he wanted out of the marriage? Did he not think Sheri had confided to anyone that he kept asking for a divorce? Did he not tell LE because he thought it would make him look guiltier?

I found that very odd.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

As far as the 10k advance goes it could of very well been that he had not yet gotten the back dated part of his raise and ask for it in a lump sum or he just asked for it for funeral expenses. Somewhere I read that though he had alot of life ins that she did not and no new policy had been taken out (not sure how true that is and don't have a link). As far as the "speaking in tongue" on the application goes, I just can't even say how ridiculous I think that is. Of course I am a believer that no personal questions should be asked on a employment application that doesn't pertain to the ability to do the job. Other than criminal background, so that being on there is just outlandish to me. I mean even if one applies at a Bank they do not ask who you Bank with or is it required that one banks with them. Same as if you work for a auto dealership it is not necessary to buy that brand of car, as so on. If it was a application to join their Ministry that might be another thing. Of course most people that did not believe in that "type" of religion would probably not be applying for employment there but still. I am sure that is one reason JMM did not want the records made public.

Hi Ice,

You're right. For funeral expenses.

"Attorney for Joyce Meyer, Michael King, revealed the nature of the $10,000 advance. The money was to be used for burial and funeral expenses. The documents showed that $10,000 in cash had been given to Coleman on May 6, 2009, the day following the murder, yet the documents didn’t reveal the purpose of the cash advance. A statement by Michael King reads, “"He said he didn't have the money at the time for the funeral expense. It was well before anyone knew he was a suspect."

http://www.examiner.com/x-7403-Tampa-Crime-Examiner~y2009m7d29-Chris-Coleman-received-10000-cash-advance-from-Joyce-Meyer-day-after-murders

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Personally....I think it's a lie. Reminds me of that other dude that killed his wife (name escapes me) and he passed himself off as a college man and wasn't.

Wow.....this is going to be an interesting case to follow.
I already have so many questions.
Why such a large salary increase at the end of the year?
That's some raise!
Why the $10,000 wage advance the day after his family is murdered? For their funerals? Or for his attorney fees?
And since it was an advance....on wages not earned....but then he resigned/got fired....will he have to pay that back to JMM?
Interesting comments over on that news article.
I admit to laughing about his work requirements of "born again" and "speaking in tongues"....especially the "speaking in tongues". I wonder if he had to demonstrate that "spiritual gift"? I wonder if he would not have been hired if he didn't "speak in tongues". And my biggest question is.....if this "speaking in tongues" was a gift of the Holy Spirit, how can such evil and the Holy Spirit dwell in the same body?

Hello, Nellie, my friend!

(Bolding Mine)

I think there are a couple of different views on this. Maybe more.

Chris may, very well, not be a christian at all.

Or, if he truly is a born again believer, it is possible, in my understanding of the bible, to sin and still have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Most of us that call ourselves Christians can cause a lot of grief by our actions, by our sins. We are still subject to tempers and jealousies and a host of other un-Christ like emotions and actions. At least, I know that I am.

King David, who was the epitome of what God said was a man after His own heart, lusted after Bathsheba, another man's wife. Called her to his home, had sex with her, got her pregnant. When he found out she was pregnant, he had her husband murdered. Horribly calculated and evil thing to do. But, he was still a man that God called His own. Even with that evil thing.

I'm not saying that Chris is any King David. I don't know Chris' heart. I don't know if he truly loves God, or even knows Him. I'm just saying that people who love God can do really horrible things, even with God's spirit living in them.

All of this is just MHO.
M.

[Musterion]

If the ministry has specific beliefs, I can understand why they would want their employees to be of like mind. Since Pentecostals believe this is a gift of the Holy Spirit I'd imagine the applicant possessing this gift is of great importance, as well as knowing when the applicant was baptized, previous church membership and so forth. I'd think though it would be something that maybe CC could "fake" as it isn't like saying he's fluent in Spanish, for example, which could easily be found out to be untrue if he wasn't. :shrug: MOO

Very well put, sunstar!

IMO.
M.

[sunstar]

Very well put, sunstar!

IMO.
M.

Thank you. It's one of those things that wasn't easy to try to word correctly. :smile:

[Musterion]

Thank you. It's one of those things that wasn't easy to try to word correctly. :smile:

LOL! I understand!

M.

[watson]

But, I guess, once you are into speaking in tongues, most everything else shrinks by comparison?

Right!

I wonder if Sheri spoke in tongues, or if he just took the liberty to say so on the application?

Maybe that comes with learning to speak in tongue, not that I ever want to know!

Anything in there about speaking with a forked tongue? Just wondering. :biggrin:

[Ice Cycle]

If the ministry has specific beliefs, I can understand why they would want their employees to be of like mind. Since Pentecostals believe this is a gift of the Holy Spirit I'd imagine the applicant possessing this gift is of great importance, as well as knowing when the applicant was baptized, previous church membership and so forth. I'd think though it would be something that maybe CC could "fake" as it isn't like saying he's fluent in Spanish, for example, which could easily be found out to be untrue if he wasn't. :shrug: MOO

Hi Sunstar,
I am afraid I see this differently and this is just mo and of course no way begins to excuse his actions, either way.
If it was worded "Do you have a problem with being around people who spoke in tongue" or " would this affect your ability to do your job" or something like that then maybe I could see it but it does say Spiritual Criteria and it is worded with the assumption that one does believe and practice that way, meaning it is expected. I just don't see where that should be a criteria for employment, no more than if Ford required everyone drive a Ford or as I said Bank's require one to Bank at their Bank. Now more than likely most people that worked for a company would use their product because they are adults and realize it is best for their company unless specific reasons. Especially if they are in Sales and are promoting a product and using another, although most adults would not go to work for a company if their believes were that far off from their employer's anyway.
If other businesses were allowed to required this it would then be be against employment law and I don't think a Church or Ministry should be able to hide behind their status and require it let only put it in writing which is probably one reason why JMM did not want those documents released. Plainly because it leans toward cult requirements and that includes if their is a "no divorce" policy. It is just mo it's going over the line into a person's personal life in a non adult way for a Employment Policy.

This really doesn't have much to do with his accused actions because if they would of required his blood and he agreed to it, it obviously would not pertain to his ludicrous actions, knowing the difference between right and wrong.

[sunstar]

Hi Sunstar,
I am afraid I see this differently and this is just mo and of course no way begins to excuse his actions, either way.
If it was worded "Do you have a problem with being around people who spoke in tongue" or " would this affect your ability to do your job" or something like that then maybe I could see it but it does say Spiritual Criteria and it is worded with the assumption that one does believe and practice that way, meaning it is expected. I just don't see where that should be a criteria for employment, no more than if Ford required everyone drive a Ford or as I said Bank's require one to Bank at their Bank. Now more than likely most people that worked for a company would use their product because they are adults and realize it is best for their company unless specific reasons. Especially if they are in Sales and are promoting a product and using another, although most adults would not go to work for a company if their believes were that far off from their employer's anyway.
If other businesses were allowed to required this it would then be be against employment law and I don't think a Church or Ministry should be able to hide behind their status and require it let only put it in writing which is probably one reason why JMM did not want those documents released. Plainly because it leans toward cult requirements and that includes if their is a "no divorce" policy. It is just mo it's going over the line into a person's personal life in a non adult way for a Employment Policy.

This really doesn't have much to do with his accused actions because if they would of required his blood and he agreed to it, it obviously would not pertain to his ludicrous actions, knowing the difference between right and wrong.
I completely understand what you're saying! I agree, using your examples, if this were an application for employment by a bank or auto mfg. company, it would be against the law to have those questions ~ or demands ~ on the application. Since I've never applied for work with any ministry or church I don't know if these are standard questions or if these policies are unique to JMM. I do think they're pretty standard though for membership in some churches. MOO

[Ontario]

Personally....I think it's a lie. Reminds me of that other dude that killed his wife (name escapes me) and he passed himself off as a college man and wasn't.

Wow.....this is going to be an interesting case to follow.
I already have so many questions.
Why such a large salary increase at the end of the year?
That's some raise!
Why the $10,000 wage advance the day after his family is murdered? For their funerals? Or for his attorney fees?
And since it was an advance....on wages not earned....but then he resigned/got fired....will he have to pay that back to JMM?
Interesting comments over on that news article.
I admit to laughing about his work requirements of "born again" and "speaking in tongues"....especially the "speaking in tongues". I wonder if he had to demonstrate that "spiritual gift"? I wonder if he would not have been hired if he didn't "speak in tongues". And my biggest question is.....if this "speaking in tongues" was a gift of the Holy Spirit, how can such evil and the Holy Spirit dwell in the same body?

Mark Hackingw his name, and I do not believe any of this Clearance garbage, he made it up, as we are finding out, the more we learn the more the man was (1) big sham, and I am sure that even his parents at this point do not know where or what to do, they should put a STOP to this, and let his children and wife rest in peace instead of being in the news 24/7.

My question is what the heck is speaking in tongues, is that like Pig Latin?? Have no idea, never heard of it!!

[n/t]

Mark Hackingw his name, and I do not believe any of this Clearance garbage, he made it up, as we are finding out, the more we learn the more the man was (1) big sham, and I am sure that even his parents at this point do not know where or what to do, they should put a STOP to this, and let his children and wife rest in peace instead of being in the news 24/7.

My question is what the heck is speaking in tongues, is that like Pig Latin?? Have no idea, never heard of it!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia

[Ontario]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia

Thank You most appreciated!!

[EMAA]

I completely understand what you're saying! I agree, using your examples, if this were an application for employment by a bank or auto mfg. company, it would be against the law to have those questions ~ or demands ~ on the application. Since I've never applied for work with any ministry or church I don't know if these are standard questions or if these policies are unique to JMM. I do think they're pretty standard though for membership in some churches. MOO


It is standard for churches to ask these questions, reason bein if that is a standard practice (speaking in tounges) then one should be of one heart and mind with the same practices, otherwise it would be constant chaos within the administrtion. The Bible tells us not to be unequally yoked. Now that doesn't mean one cannot communicate or be friends with other faiths but to be like minded when it comes to the doctorine of the church.


Giving him money for funeral expenses is more like the JM that I know and love, even if it were just an advance in pay. Altho' he would be hard pressed to bury 3 people on 10,000.

There is no hiding behind tax exemption when it comes to these things.

My opinion is that Chris had confided things and perhaps the wife had maybe given information that could be detramental againt one another to someone who had entered it into the files. Such as infidelity etc.

Every employer has files that contain information about employees that could cause a ruckus if made public, if anything had occured.

Joyce Meyer is not involved in this whole thing other than to have hired this sack of chit to begin with. MHO

[EMAA]

Hi Ice,

You're right. For funeral expenses.

"Attorney for Joyce Meyer, Michael King, revealed the nature of the $10,000 advance. The money was to be used for burial and funeral expenses. The documents showed that $10,000 in cash had been given to Coleman on May 6, 2009, the day following the murder, yet the documents didn’t reveal the purpose of the cash advance. A statement by Michael King reads, “"He said he didn't have the money at the time for the funeral expense. It was well before anyone knew he was a suspect."

http://www.examiner.com/x-7403-Tampa-Crime-Examiner~y2009m7d29-Chris-Coleman-received-10000-cash-advance-from-Joyce-Meyer-day-after-murders

IMO.
M.

This is more the JM that I know and love. She would not be apart of any scam, ever. Chris is the one who was hard pressed to be able to bury 3 people on 10,000.

[Musterion]

Thinking of Sheri and Garret and Gavin. Three months ago taken from those that loved them.

Please remember:

http://sheriannherboys.com/events.htm

"The 5th Annual “Biker’s Save Lives” benefit ride is partnering up with www.sheriannherboys.com to raise money to honor a local mother & her boys whose innocent lives were taken in May 2009. The proceeds will go towards the building of a memorial site for Sheri, Garett and Gavin who are missed very much by friends and family. This memorial site will be constructed in Columbia, near the Blue Jay football field where both boys played football. Everyone is welcomed to join in our ride, purchase a t-shirt or just come hang out. Thanks for your support."

"The family, friends and community of Columbia Illinois, invite you to donate to a memorial fund for Sheri, Gavin and Garett. These three people have touched so many lives in just the short time they were with us and we want to honor their life in a positive way by raising enough money to build a pavillion in their honor in a park in Columbia Illinois.

We are hoping to raise enough money to have picnic tables, benches, trees and flowers for this area as well. What an appropriate way to celebrate the life of Sheri, Gavin and Garett."

$12,491.30 Raised

Goal $300,000

Let's not forget these precious victims.

IMO.
M.