6/15 to 6/18

[VictimHelp]

But that's the big question, who is responsible, the mom? Was she tearing at him, was she giving him mental abuse for being with his dad, encouraging him to act in some way so she could be back together with him. I mean this all happened after he talked to mom.

Was it Vinnie? Oh but he's dead. And I doubt if he was the cause.

Some posters are assuming there was a cause and someone should be responsible. There was no abuse. The only person responsible for shooting the two men was CR.

A more likely scenario is the boy was manipulative and a patholological liar and that if he didn't get his way, WATCH OUT! Vinnie didn't let him get his way. The cause IMO was the boy. the person responsible IMO was the boy.

GB, you know as well as I do, that sometimes a person is defective, and no parent caused the defect.

[garcia]

VH, no reward poster up yet, no flyers, seems like the mom and family are uninterested in finding the "killers". I'm beginning to think there are no OTHER killers.

[dgfred]

What will happen will happen in this case going forward, I really don't have an opinion on what should or shouldn't happen. But..........

Weren't the conditions of release based on his mothers cooperation in complying with the conditions re school and restrictions for CR?

Isn't that the point? If she's not doing what she agreed to do, if she's taking him out of state without permission, if she's allowing him to miss school, isn't she out of compliance and therefore changes need to be made?

CR is a minor, he requires a guardian be it via confinement or a responsible adult willing to comply with the court orders. If none of this had happened he'd still need a guardian and his guardian would be held accountable for him and his behavior. From what I can see, based on the defense response, his mother is not in compliance. Therefore a hearing needs to be held to address those issues.

What has she not done, that you are 100% sure of?
Maybe she had permission.
Maybe school wasn't held that/those days.
Dugout mess is a bunch of nothing.
Gun issue is NOT an issue.
Only problem I can see is the friend, and whether she is having CR around him.
From what I can see the mother is in compliance, through a most difficult time in her life.

The silence has been un-deafened.

[dgfred]

VH, no reward poster up yet, no flyers, seems like the mom and family are uninterested in finding the "killers". I'm beginning to think there are no OTHER killers.

Release ALL and EVERY piece of evidence, and any subsequent interviews with all concerned... and the search WILL be on. The job will be done by somebody, all they need is the evidence... not the little tidbits that MIGHT or COULD show the boy is responsible. What harm would it do to release all the evidence? Hmmmmmmmm I wonder.

[eagargal]

Just an FYI, per the court calendar tomorrow's proceedings are via teleconference. I can't imagine anything substantive happening if that is the case. IMO.

http://www.apacheclerk.net/calendar.htm

[dgfred]

But that's the big question, who is responsible, the mom? Was she tearing at him, was she giving him mental abuse for being with his dad, encouraging him to act in some way so she could be back together with him. I mean this all happened after he talked to mom.

Was it Vinnie? Oh but he's dead. And I doubt if he was the cause.

Some posters are assuming there was a cause and someone should be responsible. There was no abuse. The only person responsible for shooting the two men was CR.

A more likely scenario is the boy was manipulative and a patholological liar and that if he didn't get his way, WATCH OUT! Vinnie didn't let him get his way. The cause IMO was the boy. the person responsible IMO was the boy.

GB, you know as well as I do, that sometimes a person is defective, and no parent caused the defect.


Yeah, he is a manipulative and pathological liar, that murders two grown men (one of them his dad).... Gee, let's allow him to go live with his mother, that shouldn't be a problem. GB will say they didn't know what else to do with an 8 year old... but no sane Judge in the country would allow that if it was possible for the boy to harm anyone.

[GentleBreeze]

Release ALL and EVERY piece of evidence, and any subsequent interviews with all concerned... and the search WILL be on. The job will be done by somebody, all they need is the evidence... not the little tidbits that MIGHT or COULD show the boy is responsible. What harm would it do to release all the evidence? Hmmmmmmmm I wonder.

Maybe someone should ask Wood or Brewer. They certainly know that is one of the reasons to take a plea to keep the intricate evidence against their client unknown so it will not further inflame the passions of the community.

imo

[dgfred]

Maybe someone should ask Wood or Brewer. They certainly know that is one of the reasons to take a plea to keep the intricate evidence against their client unknown so it will not further inflame the passions of the community.

imo

That is not so. How could the community be more 'inflamed'? That's silly.
The 'reason' for taking the PLEA (if evidence was soooo good- do not offer plea) was to NOT take the chance of being charged later for a murder and to get the boy (soon hopefully) the care he needed. If LE is so sure of the right person, just release ALL the evidence, no one would hate the boy any more than they are already showing. If the entire community thinks he did it, then just release all the evidence, simple solution and no more questions.

[dgfred]

Just an FYI, per the court calendar tomorrow's proceedings are via teleconference. I can't imagine anything substantive happening if that is the case. IMO.

http://www.apacheclerk.net/calendar.htm

What!?!?!? You mean they are not going to slam the boy in jail for all of these grave misdoings? I hope the judge fusses some at the mom for still hanging around with her 'friend' and actually tears into Whiting for the other silly accusations... he earned it.

[VictimHelp]

What has she not done, that you are 100% sure of?
Maybe she had permission.
Maybe school wasn't held that/those days.
Dugout mess is a bunch of nothing.
Gun issue is NOT an issue.
Only problem I can see is the friend, and whether she is having CR around him.
From what I can see the mother is in compliance, through a most difficult time in her life.

The silence has been un-deafened.

If it were me, I wouldn't have violated any of the conditions. And I think you wouldn't have either.

She was warned PREVIOUSLY about the felons but she CHOSE to DISREGARD those warnings. She went out of state ignoring the judge's instructions. She didn't do anything about his school for many months, so I'm not surprized he missed school. And the dugout thing is more serious than you realize. The dugout is reserved for players and coaches only, obviously he was UNSUPERVISED.

And there is SILENCE and will continue to be SILENCE about putting up a reward poster or handing out or posting flyers to look for the "killer" because the family and mom already know who is the "Killer".

Whiting is doing his JOB and is showing no favoritism. All the defense will offer is EXCUSES why they are non-compliant.

JR is doing his JOB by hearing those violations, instead of summarily dismissing them.

[VictimHelp]

Release ALL and EVERY piece of evidence, and any subsequent interviews with all concerned... and the search WILL be on. The job will be done by somebody, all they need is the evidence... not the little tidbits that MIGHT or COULD show the boy is responsible. What harm would it do to release all the evidence? Hmmmmmmmm I wonder.

Hmmmmmm I wonder why MOM, grandpa, or grandma haven't put up one flyer or offered even a $10 reward to find the "killer". Why hasn't mom, grandma and grandpa asked the state to release the evidence if they think it is exonerating.....hmmm, I wonder. maybe they already know he's guilty.

[garcia]

Hmmmmmm I wonder why MOM, grandpa, or grandma haven't put up one flyer or offered even a $10 reward to find the "killer". Why hasn't mom, grandma and grandpa asked the state to release the evidence if they think it is exonerating.....hmmm, I wonder. maybe they already know he's guilty.

If I were CR's mom, I'ld be offering a reward to find the "killers". I'ld post it in town. I'ld hand out flyers. I'ld bug the St. Johns PD every day to find the killers. I'ld ask the evidence be released. I'ld meet the media every day. I certainly wouldn't violate conditions of release. I guess mom knows he's guilty.

[dgfred]

Hmmmmmm I wonder why MOM, grandpa, or grandma haven't put up one flyer or offered even a $10 reward to find the "killer". Why hasn't mom, grandma and grandpa asked the state to release the evidence if they think it is exonerating.....hmmm, I wonder. maybe they already know he's guilty.

Uhhhhh, maybe not.
Are they allowed to speak about the case yet?
Why should they have to ask to release the evidence? If it is so solid, and absolutely shows the boy as the ONLY shooter, why not release it?
It couldn't harm anyone now, the boy has already pled, and it would confirm the boy's support that he is indeed the only suspect, and something had to have caused this, and help could be found somehow for the boy. As it is, with the blurry investigation and initial findings... nobody knows exactly what happened.

[dgfred]

I I were CR's mom, I'ld be offering a reward to find the "killers". I'ld post it in town. I'ld hand out flyers. I'ld bug the St. Johns PD every day to find the killers. I'ld ask the evidence be released. I certainly wouldn't violate conditions of release. I guess mom knows he's guilty.

Another silly bash. How/why would she hand out flyers? She is struggling just to survive. Why would anyone need to bug the PD, just release the evidence..... Just like they did BEFORE with the little bits that showed the boy 'could' have done it... not beyond a doubt. I guess she is trying to help her son, but that is just me. I don't see where she is violating conditions, except for seeing her friend which cannot be allowed. All the other things are hogwash imo.

[VictimHelp]

In all cases, the mom and family are allowed to speak about the case to ask help to find the killers, as long as they don't give details of the case. What about the Ramsays and everyone else who went on daily talk shows. They said they couldn't comment on the case but they wanted to find the real killers and they offered rewards. The gag order only disallows comments on the evidence and the actual case.

Even if it were against the law, what mom wouldn't ask the media to help find a killer, punishment or not. If it were me and I though my child was innocent, I'ld be speaking out every day, and there would be a huge public outcry if they tried to shut me up.

[VictimHelp]

Another silly bash. How/why would she hand out flyers? She is struggling just to survive. Why would anyone need to bug the PD, just release the evidence..... Just like they did BEFORE with the little bits that showed the boy 'could' have done it... not beyond a doubt. I guess she is trying to help her son, but that is just me. I don't see where she is violating conditions, except for seeing her friend which cannot be allowed. All the other things are hogwash imo.

How hard is it to put up one flyer? Or have 1 family member put up 1 flyer? She would bug the PD not to release the evidence but to find the killer? But if she is so convince he's innocent, in court ask for the evidence to be released.

[dgfred]

If it were me, I wouldn't have violated any of the conditions. And I think you wouldn't have either.

She was warned PREVIOUSLY about the felons but she CHOSE to DISREGARD those warnings. She went out of state ignoring the judge's instructions. She didn't do anything about his school for many months, so I'm not surprized he missed school. And the dugout thing is more serious than you realize. The dugout is reserved for players and coaches only, obviously he was UNSUPERVISED.

And there is SILENCE and will continue to be SILENCE about putting up a reward poster or handing out or posting flyers to look for the "killer" because the family and mom already know who is the "Killer".

Whiting is doing his JOB and is showing no favoritism. All the defense will offer is EXCUSES why they are non-compliant.

JR is doing his JOB by hearing those violations, instead of summarily dismissing them.

Do you know if she had permission to leave the state, no.
She has done much, much more for his schooling than you know, so that one is out too.
Do you even know if he went 'into' the dugout, no.
He was not unsupervised, you just don't know it.
If we know the killer, release ALL the evidence... what could it hurt?
It is not an excuse, if nothing happened in the first place, right???
Whiting seems to be buckling under pressure, thereby filing a motion before the facts were fully known... basically to poison the publics opinion even worse than they already have... by releasing milli-evidence
that shows it is 'consistant' with the boy being the shooter.

[dgfred]

How hard is it to put up one flyer? Or have 1 family member put up 1 flyer? She would bug the PD not to release the evidence but to find the killer? But if she is so convince he's innocent, in court ask for the evidence to be released.

Who the heck is saying the mom thinks he is innocent???

How do we know who is bugging and who is not? What good would a flyer do anyway? With no evidence to follow, no information to go on... it would just be silly.

[VictimHelp]

Do you know if she had permission to leave the state, no.
She has done much, much more for his schooling than you know, so that one is out too.
Do you even know if he went 'into' the dugout, no.
He was not unsupervised, you just don't know it.
If we know the killer, release ALL the evidence... what could it hurt?
It is not an excuse, if nothing happened in the first place, right???
Whiting seems to be buckling under pressure, thereby filing a motion before the facts were fully known... basically to poison the publics opinion even worse than they already have... by releasing milli-evidence
that shows it is 'consistant' with the boy being the shooter.

If it were me, I wouldn't have violated any of the conditions. And I think you wouldn't have either.

She was warned PREVIOUSLY about the felons but she CHOSE to DISREGARD those warnings. She went out of state ignoring the judge's instructions. She didn't do anything about his school for many months, so I'm not surprized he missed school. And the dugout thing is more serious than you realize. The dugout is reserved for players and coaches only, obviously he was UNSUPERVISED.

And there is SILENCE and will continue to be SILENCE about putting up a reward poster or handing out or posting flyers to look for the "killer" because the family and mom already know who is the "Killer".

Whiting is doing his JOB and is showing no favoritism. All the defense will offer is EXCUSES why they are non-compliant.

JR is doing his JOB by hearing those violations, instead of summarily dismissing them.

The case ia already pled, he pled guilty, so there can be no poisoning of the public? She should ask the court to release all the evidence if she thinks he's not guilty.

[VictimHelp]

Pray tell where the mom is going to get money to put up a reward for a lost poodle much less anything else. That is about as far fetched as you can get. If information is correct the Mom simply does not have extra money.

For some reason some posts by nics appear to be well written and intelligent but the same nic will some times type up pure nonsense.

Kind of a mystery or is it?

She can put up a poster without a reward if she has no money or the Romero family could put up a reward.

[VictimHelp]

Who the heck is saying the mom thinks he is innocent???

How do we know who is bugging and who is not? What good would a flyer do anyway? With no evidence to follow, no information to go on... it would just be silly.

so than the mom doesn't believe the boy is innocent, OK?

[VictimHelp]

Who the heck is saying the mom thinks he is innocent???

How do we know who is bugging and who is not? What good would a flyer do anyway? With no evidence to follow, no information to go on... it would just be silly.

The purpose of the flyer is to get someone to speak up if they have evidence the boy didn't do it, or if anyone saw something that day at the house, please contact my attorney and the police, that's the purpose. It also shows the mother is trying to do something. It's not silly, many crimes are solved because someone thinks a detail is not important and prodding with a flyer or an interview can convince someone to come forward.

[dgfred]

Well do me a favor then: since I don't live there would YOU be so kind to put up some flyers for me... I want to find out and hopefully some more unbiased people from the area do too. Maybe LE should put them out, since they didn't do so much when the crime actually took place.

[garcia]

It doesn't seem unreasonable, or not unimportant to put up a flyer asking for the community's help. I agree if the family or Eryn think the boy is innocent, this should be done immediately to get the community to bring up eyewitnesses that may have not previously come forward. As far as a reward, if she can not provide one, I'm sure the Romeros could come up with some cash. Also the reward could specify to be only paid upon the conviction of other killers, so nothing would need to be paid unless another killer was convicted. So she could post a reward knowing she would not have to pay unless another was convicted.

[dgfred]

Heck, just release all the evidence and we will try to track them down.

The mom might not know what happened.
The family might not know what happened.

Release evidence, then maybe they would want to 'put out a flyer' or two.

[VictimHelp]

Heck, just release all the evidence and we will try to track them down.

The mom might not know what happened.
The family might not know what happened.

Release evidence, then maybe they would want to 'put out a flyer' or two.

Do both. Put up flyers, and Eryn can ask the court to release everything.

[tottenwess]

If I were CR's mom, I'ld be offering a reward to find the "killers". I'ld post it in town. I'ld hand out flyers. I'ld bug the St. Johns PD every day to find the killers. I'ld ask the evidence be released. I'ld meet the media every day. I certainly wouldn't violate conditions of release. I guess mom knows he's guilty.

I'm just noticing that you and VictimHelp have the same problem of spelling "I'ld" (sic). It would lead me to believe that you are same person....Hmmmm

[VictimHelp]

I'ld or I'd are both spelled correct according to the internet-contraction for I would or I had...

[Details]

:huh: Huh. Say what. Link showing "I'ld" is a correct spelling please. I've been around for almost 60 years and I've never seen I'd spelled I'ld and I've done lots and lots of reading over the years. Internet included. Not even slang. TIA cause a person is never too old to learn something "new".

ETA. I'ld = I had. I don't think so....not even in gibberish. Where the "l" come from??Sounds made up to me. I've never heard of it - not even in British nor Australian dialects of English - I read a ton, everywhere, never seen it once - other than here in those posts. And I've been on the Internet for decades, since long before it was the WWW, the early boards - no I'ld anywhere I've ever seen.

[VictimHelp]

Maybe someone should ask Wood or Brewer. They certainly know that is one of the reasons to take a plea to keep the intricate evidence against their client unknown so it will not further inflame the passions of the community.

imo

The reason they won't release any of the records is because he is a minor, and minors records are sealed. Not even his mom could get them to release the records. I'ld expect the courts to be very strict on that ruling.

[R~O~S]

Heck, just release all the evidence and we will try to track them down.

The mom might not know what happened.
The family might not know what happened.

Release evidence, then maybe they would want to 'put out a flyer' or two.


Heck, since it was the defense that requested the gag order, would you please contact them to have it withdrawn. TIA

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/17945933/detail.html

A defense attorney said a judge has issued a gag order in the case of an 8-year-old boy accused of killing his father and another man, KPHO-TV in Phoenix reported.

As a result, a planned police news briefing may not happen; however, the court hearing is still scheduled for 3 p.m.

Defense attorney Ron Wood said the order prevents police and attorneys from speaking publicly about the case.

I should think they would have done so already if they're hoping to find the "real killer".

[VictimHelp]

If I were the judge, I'd put him on house arrest & slap an ankle bracelet on him so fast his and his mother's heads would spin! He would only be allowed to court ordered psychiatrist appointments and school.

But...since I am not. I would bet the judge will admonish Eryn and the boy will go home w/ her ...just till sentencing.

I agree with you Linda but I'ld suspect nothing will happen except more warnings to mom and boy.

[VictimHelp]

Oh...I wanted to add. The boy's evaluations consist of more than just interviewing the boy. Other people will be spoken to as well...like Tiffany, his teachers...people that actually have a history with this boy.

IMO

Linda even then after being interviewed so many times, I don't think many of those people will want to waste more time talking to more psychologists after they already have with Cady.

[GentleBreeze]

The reason they won't release any of the records is because he is a minor, and minors records are sealed. Not even his mom could get them to release the records. I'ld expect the courts to be very strict on that ruling.

I don't think it is just because he is a minor but that is one of the reasons but when someone pleas their case out the detailed evidence against them is sealed once the plea is struck.

The only way the public may know some of the details is if the Judge stipulates the defendant has to give a statement of guilt and a brief review of what happened before the Judge accepts the plea deal. Other than that everything goes mum and the true evidence against the defendant is never known.

imo

[Crispy]

There are a few more filings up

ETA: It looks as though all of the reason the state wants him back in juvenile have been explained.

[GentleBreeze]

If I were the judge, I'd put him on house arrest & slap an ankle bracelet on him so fast his and his mother's heads would spin! He would only be allowed to court ordered psychiatrist appointments and school.

But...since I am not. I would bet the judge will admonish Eryn and the boy will go home w/ her ...just till sentencing.

Now that is a good idea.

But I am like you, I doubt the Judge will really do anything other than be stern with Eryn and the kid that the stipulations are not to be violated.

I wonder if the evaluating doctors have been made aware of this?

imo

[PHXMOTHER]

Well by the new filings that just came up on Apache County website, doesnt look like he will need to be put on house arrest. Since the mother DID HAVE PERMISSION to take him out of state. He DID NOT miss any schooling since all the teachers were in PHX. The grandma DID NOT want a gun for her self. CR and ERYN ARE LIVING with LIZ.

[GentleBreeze]

There are a few more filings up

ETA: It looks as though all of the reason the state wants him back in juvenile have been explained.

Explained by whom? I only saw the same motion from the defense attorneys submitted twice and Whiting asking for a delay due to a funeral he has to attend that day.

I did notice in the defense answer he did say "even if he is in violation" (Paraphrasing) Hmmmmmmm

The motion is still being held only later in the day of the 16th. So I dont think anything has been cleared up. In fact they do admit that he missed school.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I'm sure.....and I would bet they interviewed and saw right through Eryn, IMO

How true you can bet they are sizing up everyone as they speak with them. They are being analyzed too but they probably dont know it. lol

imo

[PHXMOTHER]

So says...who? Oh Yeah the defense attorney!

I don't believe anything a defense lawyer says...if I did, I may still be out looking for a van full of satanists:rolleyes:

No umm Eryns attorny. So your telling me that there going to file a response claiming that the probation dept would be there to state she did have permission to take him out of the state, and they would just put in a filing claiming that the juvenile education was not in session that day, just for the fun of it right ok then lol:biggrin:

[PHXMOTHER]

Explained by whom? I only saw the same motion from the defense attorneys submitted twice and Whiting asking for a delay due to a funeral he has to attend that day.

I did notice in the defense answer he did say "even if he is in violation" (Paraphrasing) Hmmmmmmm

The motion is still being held only later in the day of the 16th. So I dont think anything has been cleared up. In fact they do admit that he missed school.

imo

I would look again....

[GentleBreeze]

I would look again....

Thanks, well I am sure Whiting has seen this but is going forward. So maybe he has witnesses too.

So we will see what happens.

I don't even think if he did violate the Judge would do much before sentencing.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

All Whiting has to do is unravel one story they are telling and the others will fall.

LOL Someone could even have a cell phone photo of Eryn, the kid and the felon.

From what I understand felons aren't allowed to be around other felons whether they live with them or not.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

What would look REALLY bad is if there are witnesses coming forward that put the boy at the ballpark....ALONE....unbeknownst to Eryn or Liz.

Now wouldnt that be a hoot?:w00t:

[Crispy]

Thanks for the heads up Crispy!

Just so you know...every time I read one of your posts I get a craving for donuts:)

Who doesn't love donuts? LOL

I think if the people at the detention center can actually confirm what is said from Eryns atty in the filing then the judge will take that into consideration and he will not be sent back to juvenile. JMO Probably the only one that they might have trouble with is the whole felon thing. Personally I think the boy can't be found at fault for where the mother takes him(if it's true)

I'm not sure why the prosecutors would file this motion without all of the info.

[PHXMOTHER]

Exactly correct!

I wouldnt assume they are lying he could have been at the park not the ball game, its not against CR's release conditions not to attend anyways. So I dont see the point of them lying he can go to a baseball game the only place he can not go is to school or out of state (WITHOUT written permission). Whiting contradicted his self in the statement anyways, it states they lived with a felon ( marijuana possesion woopeee) then it says Eryn has spent time over there. That is the only concern I think Whiting should have brought up. I personally hope the judge will also be harsh on whiting for him to file a motion with false allegations that apparently Eryn's lawyer has proof from the probation department and the juvenile center that whiting was wrong, then for it to be released as if Eryn is not taking the judge serious is absorbed to me. IMO

[PHXMOTHER]

It never made any sense to me WHY Eryn or Liz would take him to the ball park, to watch a game anyway. My interpretation was ...he was there...unsupervised and caused a problem that could have resulted in harm to him or another.
:shrug:

Don't ya have to have lots of weed to be charged with a felony?

Not in the state of Arizona, I have watched cops where in other states if your caught with a joint they will throw it out, here a joint will land you two years probation with a misdomeanor charge. Anything over is usually a felony... Ive never been in trouble with the law not even a traffic ticket, but I was a wild teenager and new allot of friends that got busted back in the day

[PHXMOTHER]

Oh..Thank you.

You wouldn't happen to have a link would ya?

I'm not certain as I know the laws have changed much over the years...but I thought you had to have enough to be charged for distribution for a felony conviction?

I dont believe there would be a link available since sentencing can vary. My ex was caught with a roach a smoken joint. He was giving 2 yrs probation and charged with a felony now once probation was over it was reduced to a misdomeaner. A lady I work with her son was caught got the same deal for having 10$ worth he failed to pay his probation fines on time, so they violated him, and now he does not have the option of the charged being reduced to a misdomenor it will always be a class 6 felony...It varies case to case, but yes you can get charged with a felony there is not a set limit. Now anything over $60 I know they can say you are selling it, $60 is not a big amount either. IMO its the states way of making easy money IMO

[PHXMOTHER]

Now I do not think that Eryn was using her best judgment in having CR around him, except it makes me wonder did they say CR could not be in his presence or did they just say he could not live with a Felon? I wouldnt think she was a horriable mother that didnt care about her child though. Come on now Tim had drug charges, per the reservation he was a small time drug dealer, and Vince had him living under the same roof as CR. Not that I am trying to down Tim I do not like to talk ill of the dead. Just my Opinion..

[GentleBreeze]

Like I posted above only time will tell....But it clearly looks like it's possible that the officials in St. Johns have a problem of jumping the gun to release information. The release of the video of the so called confession sure did nothing for their public image in this part of the country. If the last release proves to be not true.... I believe it is close to slander.

Whiting was not even the County Attorney for Apache County then.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Very interesting!

Haven't touch the stuff since I turned 18...many many moons ago:biggrin:

I have never tried any type of drugs not even pot. Didn't hang around anyone that did it even when I was a teenager so I guess I was just never exposed to it.

A roach to me is a creepy dirty crawly thing that makes me go ewwww.:biggrin:

[GentleBreeze]

Oh..Thank you.

You wouldn't happen to have a link would ya?

I'm not certain as I know the laws have changed much over the years...but I thought you had to have enough to be charged for distribution for a felony conviction?

Thats the way it still is in my state. For it to be a felony it either has to be a large amount or trafficking drugs.

imo

[Blessed]

Well by the new filings that just came up on Apache County website, doesnt look like he will need to be put on house arrest. Since the mother DID HAVE PERMISSION to take him out of state. He DID NOT miss any schooling since all the teachers were in PHX. The grandma DID NOT want a gun for her self. CR and ERYN ARE LIVING with LIZ.
And him running in a Dugout at a Baseball game never happened either, not sure why anyone made a big deal out of that to begin with, the hearing is all a big waste of time because someone doesn't have a life and continues to nose around this young mother and her sons life making up stories and trying to cause trouble.

[VictimHelp]

So says...who? Oh Yeah the defense attorney!

I don't believe anything a defense lawyer says...if I did, I may still be out looking for a van full of satanists:rolleyes:

Linda you and I know most defense attys will just about do or say anything to get their clients off.

[VictimHelp]

What would look REALLY bad is if there are witnesses coming forward that put the boy at the ballpark....ALONE....unbeknownst to Eryn or Liz.

Alone? Like I said running amuck! If witnesses do come forward that will be very serious since mother is denying.

[PHXMOTHER]

I have never heard of one putting a response in saying something wasn't true and has proof for the heck of it...

[Details]

Defense attorneys say things that are both true and false - so you can't discard something because it comes from a defense attorney - but nor can you take it as credible. Same goes for the prosecution - although less often IMO.

However, saying something blatantly and provably false in this type of situation is not so common - there's no jury to try to influence, there's a judge who will hear the other side from the prosecutor, and there are ethics boards that can cause him trouble for such behavior.

[Details]

How many trials have you watched? LOL I am not intentionally being rude...but come on!!!I've watched many - and I've seen very little of that too - maybe one instance, in an opening argument, not in court papers filed to a judge (Scott Peterson where Gregaros claimed he'd prove a ton of falsehoods). This case - no jury to influence, just a judge - I've never seen it happen there that they post something provably false when only a day will prove it false.

Defense attorneys will present all kinds of false theories, imply that something is true or not true, but to say something flatly untrue and say they have proof, in paperwork filed to a judge that will hear it the next day or so - no, that I've never seen, nor anything like it, and I've followed many trials.

There has to be a reason to do it. A jury to influence, a chance of not being caught - but none of those apply here. No jury. A judge who will be expecting and asking for that proof tomorrow. A prosecutor who would challenge anything false. There's zero to gain from a lie.

It's not impossible they are totally irrational, and we'll find out tomorrow - but a flat out lie, with claimed proof that doesn't exist in papers given to a judge in this type of case? Does not fit - there's no motive to do it.

[GentleBreeze]

Never said he was or wasn't. Note the (s) attached to official. Means more than one the last I knew.


snip. But it clearly looks like it's possible that the officials in St. Johns have a problem of jumping the gun to release information.

What do you mean? They fied a motion. It is a public record site on this case. It would be no different than if the defense attorney had filed a motion of some kind.:confused:

[GentleBreeze]

Defense attorneys say things that are both true and false - so you can't discard something because it comes from a defense attorney - but nor can you take it as credible. Same goes for the prosecution - although less often IMO.

However, saying something blatantly and provably false in this type of situation is not so common - there's no jury to try to influence, there's a judge who will hear the other side from the prosecutor, and there are ethics boards that can cause him trouble for such behavior.

In juvenile cases there is only a Judge presiding.

I don't think for one second that Whiting is unethical. All he has to have done is filed the motion based in good faith and I think he did.

Now can some of it be refuted? Very likely but I think we have to hear Whitings concerns before jumping that he has acted unethically. He has been very lenient on this kid. I for one don't think he is "picking" on him.

I am sure Roca will let both sides show him what they have and will go from there.

But I sure don't think Whiting has some big conspiracy against this kid or has blatantly told lies on him.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I'm lost....this is not related to anything pertaining to my original post, your reply and my reply to that. So I ask "What do you mean"? Go back and read from the beginning.


snip. But it clearly looks like it's possible that the officials in St. Johns have a problem of jumping the gun to release information.

They have always released motion information whether it be a motion from the defense or the state.:confused:

So how are they jumping the gun by filing a motion and it appearing where they always have been released since they established that site for that purpose?

imo

[VictimHelp]

In juvenile cases there is only a Judge presiding.

I don't think for one second that Whiting is unethical. All he has to have done is filed the motion based in good faith and I think he did.

Now can some of it be refuted? Very likely but I think we have to hear Whitings concerns before jumping that he has acted unethically. He has been very lenient on this kid. I for one don't think he is "picking" on him.

I am sure Roca will let both sides show him what they have and will go from there.

But I sure don't think Whiting has some big conspiracy against this kid or has blatantly told lies on him.


imo


But it sounds like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. If she had permission to go out of state, the probation dept. screwed up by not telling Whiting so it could be the out of state and missing school are bogus. But I don't think that's Whitings fault. Still if the sleepovers are true, that is still a serious charge, and if someone disputes the mom about the ballpark that could be serious.

[VictimHelp]

I'm quoting my post to make correction. The red "not" should be deleted. Sorry about that but editing time was out. And having that little word in there completely changed what I was saying.
Just one of my many blunders.

You're OVERREACTING, I Think about all the blunders. First the stepmom allowed the interview because she wanted CR to offer info. to catch the killers, and I think the police went in with that attitude but surprizingly CR confessed. Whiting is doing his job correctly, if they are having sleepovers at felons. It is responsibilty to protect the citizens foremost. The judge will decide if the infractions are significant enough.

[sdn8tv]

If it were me, I wouldn't have violated any of the conditions. And I think you wouldn't have either.

She was warned PREVIOUSLY about the felons but she CHOSE to DISREGARD those warnings. She went out of state ignoring the judge's instructions. She didn't do anything about his school for many months, so I'm not surprized he missed school. And the dugout thing is more serious than you realize. The dugout is reserved for players and coaches only, obviously he was UNSUPERVISED.

And there is SILENCE and will continue to be SILENCE about putting up a reward poster or handing out or posting flyers to look for the "killer" because the family and mom already know who is the "Killer".

Whiting is doing his JOB and is showing no favoritism. All the defense will offer is EXCUSES why they are non-compliant.

JR is doing his JOB by hearing those violations, instead of summarily dismissing them.

Flyers are for promoting car washing and missing puppies...not solving murders.

[sdn8tv]

What do you mean it would not be Whitings fault. He is the DA and is responsible for what he brings before the Judge. I can not be charged and my tail hauled into the court house if there is not something to back up that I need to be there. DAs can not file untruths and not be held accoutable. If someone lied to him or with held the truth they need to be held accountable. If the charges are true they need to be dealt with.

For the sake of Justice I just hope this turns out better than I think it "can".

It is his signature...his career.

[sdn8tv]

Great response by Eryn's attorney!!!:thumbsup:

[sdn8tv]

Well by the new filings that just came up on Apache County website, doesnt look like he will need to be put on house arrest. Since the mother DID HAVE PERMISSION to take him out of state. He DID NOT miss any schooling since all the teachers were in PHX. The grandma DID NOT want a gun for her self. CR and ERYN ARE LIVING with LIZ.

As I've been saying for a week...Truth always prevails...

[sdn8tv]

Explained by whom? I only saw the same motion from the defense attorneys submitted twice and Whiting asking for a delay due to a funeral he has to attend that day.

I did notice in the defense answer he did say "even if he is in violation" (Paraphrasing) Hmmmmmmm

The motion is still being held only later in the day of the 16th. So I dont think anything has been cleared up. In fact they do admit that he missed school.

imo

Missed school when there was no school. In my kids school it is called professional growth days and the kids don't have school.

[sdn8tv]

So says...who? Oh Yeah the defense attorney!

I don't believe anything a defense lawyer says...if I did, I may still be out looking for a van full of satanists:rolleyes:
But you believe anything a prosecution attorney say's...interesting

[sdn8tv]

Now wouldnt that be a hoot?:w00t:

OMG...that would be so funny....

[sdn8tv]

I'm just noticing that you and VictimHelp have the same problem of spelling "I'ld" (sic). It would lead me to believe that you are same person....Hmmmm


Ya think??? I bet they think they are really pulling one over on us:thumbup:

[Shameonme]

:huh: Huh. Say what. Link showing "I'ld" is a correct spelling please. I've been around for almost 60 years and I've never seen I'd spelled I'ld and I've done lots and lots of reading over the years. Internet included. Not even slang. TIA cause a person is never too old to learn something "new".

ETA. I'ld = I had. I don't think so....not even in gibberish. Where the "l" come from??

I wonder what the odds are that 2 people who would use those abb. would end up on the same thread on the same message board are.

[VictimHelp]

Flyers are for promoting car washing and missing puppies...not solving murders.

And flyers and rewards posters are effective at getting someone in the community to step forward with information, unless you already know he's guilty, and then they are useless. Why leave any stones unturned, if you think the boy is innocent. It's worth a try if you believe there are other killers.

[VictimHelp]

But the mom and Romeros are doing nothing in St. Johns to find the killers, so I guess the boy isn't innocent after all. No interviews. No rewards. No flyers. No community involvment. No visits to the police station to prod further investigations. No daily interviews with the media asking for help in finding the boy's killer. If I thought the boy was innocent and I were his mom I'ld do something to prove my boy's innocence. But we all know he confessed and pled guilty and is guilty.

[eagargal]

I dont believe there would be a link available since sentencing can vary. My ex was caught with a roach a smoken joint. He was giving 2 yrs probation and charged with a felony now once probation was over it was reduced to a misdomeaner. A lady I work with her son was caught got the same deal for having 10$ worth he failed to pay his probation fines on time, so they violated him, and now he does not have the option of the charged being reduced to a misdomenor it will always be a class 6 felony...It varies case to case, but yes you can get charged with a felony there is not a set limit. Now anything over $60 I know they can say you are selling it, $60 is not a big amount either. IMO its the states way of making easy money IMO


I found an interesting table that lists the sentences and fines for possession of marijuana in AZ. It appears there is no minimum if one has intent to sell or is caught near a school or school bus.

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4523&wtm_view=penalties

[Shameonme]

LOL and both have very similar opinions. Maybe they are adopted identical twins and got real lucky. One in a zillion. :ohmy:

:thumbsup: 1 IN 1,000,000,000,000,000...

[dgfred]

What would look REALLY bad is if there are witnesses coming forward that put the boy at the ballpark....ALONE....unbeknownst to Eryn or Liz.

Good to see you back around, but still grasping at straws eh.

Maybe the clan can all get together for a big pot of crow stew.

Each and every unfounded accusation crushed to bits. Hopefully the judge will force Whiting to bring his witnesses in to speak of these accusations. Maybe the threat of perjury will get some truth out of them. Maybe Whiting will investigate a little further next time before he starts flinging mud.

[dgfred]

snip. But it clearly looks like it's possible that the officials in St. Johns have a problem of jumping the gun to release information.

They have always released motion information whether it be a motion from the defense or the state.:confused:

So how are they jumping the gun by filing a motion and it appearing where they always have been released since they established that site for that purpose?

imo

What? Like maybe the state investigating the bull before they file such a waste of time for the OFFICIALS. Jumping the gun was probably meant as filing untruths (like this time), and releasing a video of a boy without representation or a family member around naming him as a killer.
Also releasing tid-bits of information showing the boy 'could' have been the shooter, but nothing showing beyond a doubt or anything that shows otherwise. Witchhunt is a pretty accurate word imo.

[dgfred]

I would not be overly optimistic until we find out what happens today at the hearing this afternoon. If CR is having sleepovers at a felon, that is a very serious charge. I have also wondered why Eryn has not been vocal in the media. I had not heard anything of a reward, is there one?


Welcome to the forum :biggrin: .

Who is going to put up a reward?
With a felon is a problem, but I don't think that is the case. What about all the other bull attached to the filing, just shots in the dark?

[garcia]

Missed school when there was no school. In my kids school it is called professional growth days and the kids don't have school.

I'ld have to admit you're going to miss school if you're out of state and if the probation department gave you permission to go out of state, if that's all true.

[tottenwess]

Linda you and I know most defense attys will just about do or say anything to get their clients off.

I don't understand why you say that....prosecutors are the ones that have skin in the game. They are the ones that are voted in; defense attorneys have nothing to lose...they get paid no matter what the outcome is.

[garcia]

From my understanding of Law either can get into trouble and both have to be ethical, but a prosecutor, in general, has to be more objective because he/she represents the public, at least in most jurisdictions.

I'd say the prosecutor is more objective, because they have to consider all evidence good or bad whereas the defense only has to get their client off.

[dgfred]

I'd say the prosecutor is more objective, because they have to consider all evidence good or bad whereas the defense only has to get their client off.


I wouldn't because a defense attorney gets paid win or lose. Only thing to avoid is getting disbarred.
A prosecutor has to consider all the evidence, but bad evidence doesn't always have to come in. And being voted in, you have to avoid public problems AND getting hit by the bar.

[sdn8tv]

LOL and both have very similar opinions. Maybe they are adopted identical twins and got real lucky. One in a zillion. :ohmy:

and never are on line at the same time and post within minutes of each other....just watch it...it's pretty funny.

[dgfred]

Hmmm I would bet that the parents of missing children and the people that pay for billboards for help solving murders...and the FBI's most wanted list hanging at my post office and a few stores I frequent will be shocked to learn getting the word and the need for info out there is restricted for puppies and car washes.

The ones that pay for billboards usually have the funding to do so.

I don't recall anyone posting 'restricted' ??? Probably meant what worked best for flyers imo.

[sdn8tv]

I'ld have to admit you're going to miss school if you're out of state and if the probation department gave you permission to go out of state, if that's all true.


MIghty big two letter word...but since the detention director already said there was no school, she is willing to be at court and say that he didn't miss school....

[tottenwess]

From my understanding of Law either can get into trouble and both have to be ethical, but a prosecutor, in general, has to be more objective because he/she represents the public, at least in most jurisdictions.

Granted, both the prosecutor and defense can be removed from the bar for being unethical, but who has more to lose, who has to appease the public to maintain their job? The prosecution may be willing to push that envelope just a little farther if they know that they may not be re-elected...they have so much more to lose. A defense attorney is still getting paid if he/she loses; the only thing they have to lose is the proverbial notch on the bedpost.

[dgfred]

IMO He is guilty of killing both men. If ALL the latest allegations aren't true, I would suspect there was more then one person relaying false information to the prosecutor.

That speaks more about the community's disgust with the boy being with his mother than it does about the prosecutor just trying to do his job. IMO

Why would you suspect that? Might just be one.

IMO it could be one or two people that are disgusted and there could be several reasons for that, don't ya think? His job would require him to at least confirm a little bit of these accusations before the publics opinion was again poisoned unnessesarily, if he was doing it correctly.

[tottenwess]

I wouldn't because a defense attorney gets paid win or lose. Only thing to avoid is getting disbarred.
A prosecutor has to consider all the evidence, but bad evidence doesn't always have to come in. And being voted in, you have to avoid public problems AND getting hit by the bar.

Sorry dgfred, should have read your post before I posted mine...but at least someone else understands me...

[Details]

Granted, both the prosecutor and defense can be removed from the bar for being unethical, but who has more to lose, who has to appease the public to maintain their job? The prosecution may be willing to push that envelope just a little farther if they know that they may not be re-elected...they have so much more to lose. A defense attorney is still getting paid if he/she loses; the only thing they have to lose is the proverbial notch on the bedpost.The prosecutor - most of their cases aren't being closely watched, unless it's something high profile, they've nothing to lose by being ethical, going with the definite information.

The defense attorney - his whole job is about convincing someone to pay him a lot of money to represent them - in my experience, they're much more likely to push the envelope, because their pay directly relates to how many clients they can get. The prosecutor is paid the same no matter how many cases he prosecutes or not - unless he's losing a ton or doing something major, that's about it.

I've seen a lot more defense attorneys at something sleazy than prosecutors. Of course I've seen a fair bit of both - so I'd never automatically trust either - but defense has definitely been worse.

[Details]

IMO He is guilty of killing both men. If ALL the latest allegations aren't true, I would suspect there was more then one person relaying false information to the prosecutor.

That speaks more about the community's disgust with the boy being with his mother than it does about the prosecutor just trying to do his job. IMOIf a bunch of people are so upset about this case that they're willing to go lie to the prosecutor to try to get the boy locked up - doesn't that say volumes about what the boy and his mother and grandmother are living with? People who don't care about the law, are willing to take actions to hurt the kid - if that's the case - the grandmother has good reason to be worried about protecting themselves.

[GentleBreeze]

A motion filed to terminate a furlough approved by the courts only has to be "on good faith". ??:confused: Maybe that is why there was a plea deal...the double murder charges were based on "good faith". That's really getting the job done. "Not". He needed some strong "evidence" then file the motion. The evidence may be there but according to the responses filed it's possible it not there.

Any attorney can file a motion. Heck Farese filed two motions on the same thing in the Winkler trial when he tried to say it was a fact that the evidence taken in the SW was not admissible. The Judge ruled against him. Any motions filed will be heard by the Judge and its his decision to rule whatever way the evidence presents itself.

The plea deal was based on evidence already in the hands of the DA, Defense Attorneys and the Judge. Had there been no evidence or exonerating evidence Wood would have never plead knowing admitting guilt would change this kid's life forever.

It will be up to Judge Roca to decide if Whiting brought this motion in good faith. I am sure he is aware of Whiting's ethical character since Roca was once a Prosecutor too.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

If a bunch of people are so upset about this case that they're willing to go lie to the prosecutor to try to get the boy locked up - doesn't that say volumes about what the boy and his mother and grandmother are living with? People who don't care about the law, are willing to take actions to hurt the kid - if that's the case - the grandmother has good reason to be worried about protecting themselves.

I don't think we know that they are lying even before they testify. Especially about the dugout and him seeing the felon.

Well Whiting has always expressed not only concern for the community but for the boy as well.

If it is too volatile for him to be out and about on the streets Whiting has to consider his safety and if he is disrupting the town as a whole by being out free then he has to consider what is best for both, him and the community.

I am sure Whiting is very concerned by all of this and it really doesn't seem to be working out very well so far. Maybe he can move away once sentencing has been done.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Wasn't there comments made way back in the beginning of this case made by the judge that both attorneys were fabulous?

In my experience...very often opposing counsel are actually friends when not working. Both are simply trying to do their jobs to the very best of their ability.

In such a small community I am sure all parties know each other rather well.

Yes, they are court adversaries. When not in court they are probably very cordial to each other.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I'm not very familar with that area...Here many are either golf, tennis, racketball, fishing or sailing buddies!!!!

That is the way it is in my area too.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I totally agree.

Who could move away when sentencing is over? I hope not the boy. I do think and hope they will place him in a RTC located far from his community.

I personally think they are going to let him move as quickly as Eryn can get 'er done. I think they all want their little town back like it was before this happened.

I do agree with you that he would be better off in a RTC but I just don't think it is going to happen.

imo

[Details]

Yes, it would speak volumes, I have to agree. While I could understand their frustration, I could never condone lying and deliberately making a mockery of the justice system. If that was the case..I too would fear what would come next, since their little plan will fail.

BUT I'm not so sure everything in that motion is a lie.

I'll have to wait and see ...........just like everyone else.Until we get the results from today - we don't know. But if that scenario is true - sounds possible to me - they do need to make sure these people are protected. Even if only some of what is in the motion is a lie, that speaks volumes - it means some are willing to lie to law enforcement to try to 'get' the boy - who knows what method they would choose if this attempt fails?

No one should ever say a grandmother must abandon her grandson and daughter, or pay a price that includes possible violence, vandalism, and false reports to the police and prosecutors.

[tottenwess]

Ha....that is true Wal-Mart does have posters "for missing children" but who in the world disappeared in this case. I don't believe there has ever been a poster or flyer "anywhere" that is associated with an investigation of a murderer. This flyer business VH and her friend have harped on for days do not come close to being rational. mhoo

Do you mean VH and himself/herself?

[dgfred]

I personally think they are going to let him move as quickly as Eryn can get 'er done. I think they all want their little town back like it was before this happened.

I do agree with you that he would be better off in a RTC but I just don't think it is going to happen.

imo

See, we can agree some times- I hope they can move quickly too.

[dgfred]

Well, I think with the extensive psychological evaluations the judge isn't going to have much of a choice.

There is no way they are gonna say that kid is fine and not a danger. IMO


Of course he is not 'fine'.

The only danger is from misinformed and irrational people with other things on their mind. For all we know he is only suffering from seeing his father and friend dead, then counciling and living with his mom would be the very best thing imo.

[dgfred]

I don't think we know that they are lying even before they testify. Especially about the dugout and him seeing the felon.

Well Whiting has always expressed not only concern for the community but for the boy as well.

If it is too volatile for him to be out and about on the streets Whiting has to consider his safety and if he is disrupting the town as a whole by being out free then he has to consider what is best for both, him and the community.

I am sure Whiting is very concerned by all of this and it really doesn't seem to be working out very well so far. Maybe he can move away once sentencing has been done.

imo

The dugout thing is most likely not true, I am not so sure about the visiting a felon thing.
His concern would seem much greater if he did not poison the public's perception filing with little or no fact.
It would not be volitile if the boy and mom would just be left alone, especially since that really have not been doing anything wrong.
What part is not working?
Falsehoods don't make 'not working out'... just leave them alone and things might work much better.

[dgfred]

Go to the city of Philadelphia, you'll find them often posted on telephone polls requesting information and providing a phone number to leave information anonymously to help solve murders..there's also huge bill boards for the same thing.

IF the mom had the money, she might would do that.
IF the family had the money and some more information (evidence) they might would be willing to do that.
IF investigators would release ALL the evidence, some of us might be willing to do that.

But really, what relevance does it have here to keep harping on about flyers? Is that the best of discussions concerning this case? IMO not.

[Details]

We do know he took a plea deal that spared him from being tried for double murder.

I don't know about you...but that tells me...he has far deeper issues than laying his little eyes on two dead men.The plea deal was a fairly rational thing - many adult defendants have done likewise. Faced with a trial that could go any which way, and would leave him in solitary isolation in jail for much longer - or offered a deal that he just tells them what they want to hear one more time, and he gets to go home - it's no surprise to me that he took it. Definitely no surprise for a child to agree to it - not even much of a shock if an adult had (although they didn't - his mother opposed it, his GAL opposed it).

It's not a deep issue - it's a simple weighting of two choices - more time alone in isolation for a small child - or going home to mommy. I doubt you'd find many perfectly normal children who would be willing to go for the isolation for the abstract (to them) issue of guilt or innocence.

[dgfred]

The point is...money or not, if that were my kid, and I believed he was innocent or there was a single shred of exculpatory evidence, I would be shouting it from the roof tops. I would be calling reporters and the media. I would spend my time and effort getting all of my "supporters" that believed the same to demand the police look for the real killer.
If that meant hanging flyers on every telephone poll in town and neighboring towns, that's exactly what I'd be doing with my 4 hour a day break from supervising my son. I would be talking to everyone that knew Tim and Vince. Hoping to glean some information that the investigators may have missed.

So what is his mother doing?

Well she is probably is doing much of that with her 'supporters', just not easy to see. Her ONLY job is to now support her child in any way SHE sees fit, not exactly the way you would do it. It doesn't matter now what they missed or didn't properly investigate... because they shut-down the investigation pretty early and now everything is 'sealed'... probably to keep the likes of us from knowing exactly how bad they did fowl up. But really the point is, it is up to her how to handle her situation and if she doesn't think 'flyers' are the way to go then that is her decision.

[dgfred]

The boy's attorney publically said his mother was in agreement with the plea deal.

Later, she claimed she opposed it.

I believe she was onboard with the deal

I believe she stood up in court and said she opposed it. Probably the minor changes made in closed session before the plea made her jump
offboard.

[dgfred]

We do know he took a plea deal that spared him from being tried for double murder.

I don't know about you...but that tells me...he has far deeper issues than laying his little eyes on two dead men.

See, the 8 yr old boy took the plea deal... that is most of the problem there. Give him a choice- face trial for double murder OR plea deal and go live with your mom.... what in the heck would you or any 8/9 yr old do???????
I don't know about you but it shows me this whole deal stinks all the way around... from the investigation, to the video release, to the release of pieces of information against the boy, to the plea, to this last pitiful filing.

[GentleBreeze]

The point is...money or not, if that were my kid, and I believed he was innocent or there was a single shred of exculpatory evidence, I would be shouting it from the roof tops. I would be calling reporters and the media. I would spend my time and effort getting all of my "supporters" that believed the same to demand the police look for the real killer.
If that meant hanging flyers on every telephone poll in town and neighboring towns, that's exactly what I'd be doing with my 4 hour a day break from supervising my son. I would be talking to everyone that knew Tim and Vince. Hoping to glean some information that the investigators may have missed.

So what is his mother doing?

And I certainly would do it before he is sentenced.

imo

[Details]

So what is his mother doing?What she should be doing - taking care of her son after he's had a huge trauma, and trying to keep them afloat - a hard thing with all the restrictions. That's a far higher priority than making other people happy by trying to do the job the police should be doing that she has no tools nor money to do.

[Details]

The boy's attorney publically said his mother was in agreement with the plea deal.

Later, she claimed she opposed it.

I believe she was onboard with the dealShe opposed it all the way through. In the court room, after - I've never seen one thing to suggest she ever supported it. Nor did the GAL - he fought back - but the judge didn't let him be heard. And he was right - a child is in no way competent to make this choice.

[Details]

Fair enough about the flyers.

BUT If she truly believed he was innocent she would be saying so...loud clear and not behind the scenes where is does no good. If she had any reason to believe her son was made a patsy, she should be saying so. LOUD and CLEAR

IMOOh, yeah, that'll change minds. She'll just get a bunch more hate from the same people, all about how she's enabling a murderer, and blah, blah - oh, I don't even want to make my mind think that way.

No amount of contrary evidence, forensic or otherwise has changed any opinions - why would a mother's statements do any different, for the haters? Those who just need this kid to be guilty to justify all they've said about him.

[dgfred]

The boy is under the court's jurisdiction. She has to adhere to the conditions and terms of the plea agreement.

According to the state's attorney, she is failing to do that and the way SHE sees fit, is not appropriate.

Well she HAS been trying to do that, it seems misinformed filings are getting in the way :rolleyes: .
"According to the state's attorney" :laugh: yeah, he is right on the mark with this one.
While abiding by the rules, how SHE sees fit is absolutely perfect.

[dgfred]

I am just curious as to why many believe a child that murdered two men doesn't belong in some secure facility getting intensive treatment? Surely 99% of the children residing in such places haven't killed anyone, yet it's okay for them to be there. Is there just something about this kid? Have any of you opposed to it ever even thought about all of the other kids living in a RTC?

If there was a ever a child that needed 24/7 supervision and intensive therapy, this boy is it! IMO

His crimes are far more serious than most can even comprehend. Yet many still believe it's better and perfectly acceptable for this boy to be out and about with his mom?

I just don't get it.

all IMO

Well for me personally: I am not sure that the boy commited the murders. If I had all the evidence... my mind could change. I have zero idea why other kids are in facilities, but with a immediate family member if it is feasible is always gonna be best in my opinion. I'm not sure how this went down, or what went on before that if anything to cause what happened. So really, it is not blindly supporting the boy, but what I feel is right in this case at the present time with what little we know. I still will not think he needs 24/7 therapy, or at least I hope not.

[Details]

I think the only trauma inflicted in the entire situation was caused by the boy.

Like I said....as long as there was a breath in my body, I'd be protesting his innocence, if that's what I believed. That doesn't cost a dime.That's your belief - but that's not even remotely like what he plead guilty to - let alone what I believe happened. And he doesn't belong in some facility, he needs family, support.

And no - I don't remotely believe he killed anyone, nor had anything to do with it. I understand the plea - heck, I might make it myself, knowing how some people are about false confessions - there are still people who think Stephanie Crowe's brother a murderer, and are willing to make up all kinds of mad stories to explain away the forensic evidence that shows he did not - just because the police got a teenage boy to make a false confession. They can get them from adults, teens - getting one from a child is trivial.

[Details]

If there are people that hate her in the community, they're gonna hate her regardless if she's out proclaiming her son's innocence or not.

If she really believes he's innocent, she has nothing to lose and everything to gain for herself and her son. Putting myself in her shoes and assuming she believes he's innocent, I would be hoping someone would cough up an anonymous clue as to who the real killer was. Someone that was afraid to come forward before or wasn't forthright with investigators.

FYI Many opinions have changed since the beginning of this case.


I don't hate anyone. I'm offended you called me or anyone with an opposing POV a "hater." It just so happens, I don't care for murderers, never have.

I have never labeled those with an opposing point a view, a "murderer lover" .....so....... I would appreciate the same respect.I didn't call anyone with an opposing POV a hater. I talked about the haters - didn't label anyone as one. They exist, they're obvious - and I'm not going to pretend they don't. Having an alternate POV doesn't make you a hater - showing an obvious and virulent hatred to this boy, his mother, anyone who dares help him - does. There are many people who think he is killed both men, but are not haters.

[dgfred]

Yeah, but if you would consider the other point of view it would make for alot more pleasant debates. It is plain to see what side you sit on, no need to be sooooo negative with your post and sooooo confrontational with every return post.

Could you not help this boy if he were in your care? Maybe some advice (not negative) could help the mom with your vast experience with foster care. I feel that I and some others have posted alot of useful and insightful material to consider, but it never is. Most every time the exact oppposite of anything positive posted is the side taken.
You say no evidence of abuse... I say no evidence of alot of things.
You say the boy is a murderer... I say I am not so sure.
You say the boy has mental issues... I say I am not so sure and I don't know the circumstances and happenings around that household at the time. I am of the opinion that this did not happen because of mental issues, but something else that happened that we are unaware of.
We should still be friends and enjoy the debate, even if we butt heads on just about every issue here.

[dgfred]

Don't worry, we will get you right up to speed. :wink:

[Details]

It's often easier to not be in the waiting game. I've missed a few verdicts - and it sure is less frustrating than the wait and speculate game. Not that I can pull myself away if I'm able to be there.

[tottenwess]

I am just curious as to why many believe a child that murdered two men doesn't belong in some secure facility getting intensive treatment? Surely 99% of the children residing in such places haven't killed anyone, yet it's okay for them to be there. Is there just something about this kid? Have any of you opposed to it ever even thought about all of the other kids living in a RTC?

If there was a ever a child that needed 24/7 supervision and intensive therapy, this boy is it! IMO

His crimes are far more serious than most can even comprehend. Yet many still believe it's better and perfectly acceptable for this boy to be out and about with his mom?

I just don't get it.

all IMO

He's only Nine........

[R~O~S]

Ha....that is true Wal-Mart does have posters "for missing children" but who in the world disappeared in this case. I don't believe there has ever been a poster or flyer "anywhere" that is associated with an investigation of a murderer. This flyer business VH and her friend have harped on for days do not come close to being rational. mhoo

Apparently you've never heard of the Sund Carrington Foundation.

http://www.lacipeterson.com/sundcarrington.html

They provide funds to families without economic means to help find the missing and provide information to bring violent criminals to justice. They were instrumental in providing reward money for information leading to first the safe return of Laci Petersen and in the end information leading to a conviction. They also stepped forward in the Sandra Cantu case IIRC. They've been providing this support since the loss of their founders, Francis and Carole Carrington's daughter, Granddaughter and a family friend in Yosemite National Park in 1999. FWIW, they're not the only ones, just the organization I know off the top of my head.

[dgfred]

I sure hadn't. Good for them, maybe they will offer their services to the mother, boy and his family. Did they find anything about information leading to finding Laci? How about any information leading to the conviction? Did they help any in the Cantu case?
Also see if they have handle any cases where someone was prematurely named as the killer, little bits of information leaked/given out that show that person 'could' be the killer, then close the investigation and place gag orders on those involved. Apples to oranges.

All the allegations in the filing have been shown to be false, what lengths will the prosecution go to next to poison the public's opinion of the boy? Video = strike one / filings should be = to strike two, strike three and unethical conduct should become a factor.

[R~O~S]

You can lead a horse to water, you can't make them drink. I've provided the information along with a viable link that would allow you to find the answers to your questions.

The point being, not only are fliers, posters and rewards utilized to solve missing persons cases, but to bring to justice the perpetrators of violent crimes. These foundations have been in existence for quite some time and they're quite well known.

Which brings us back to why, if this child didn't commit these crimes, isn't the family seeking the services of such a foundation to help them find the "real killer"?

[Crispy]

New filing up! Order regarding furlough conditions

[GentleBreeze]

New filing up! Order regarding furlough conditions

WOW!:ohmy: They laid down the law this time.

Very clear and he is on house arrest until the evaluators say he is not a danger to himself or others.

I wonder what kind of medication he is on that he MUST take as prescribed.

imo

[Crispy]

IDK, I just took that as a generic statement. I haven't heard of any medication.

[PHXMOTHER]

Sounds to me like someone needed the rules expalined to them ...AGAIN.

I did notice the part where he can't attend any formal events...I don't believe that was there before.


No AP News? No local news reports??? Where is VH??? Was she there at today's hearing???

There was no need to explain the rules to them again, they added rules. Now he can only be out with his mom or grandma. I do not believe that is house arrest but what ever floats there boat. Your on house arrest, but can go places with your mom and grandma doesnt make to much since to me. The medication was a blank rule, does not say he is on meds, so that is spreading false lies...

[PHXMOTHER]

It clearly states the boy is on house arrest. I still think they should have slapped an ankle bracelet on the boy.

The way it's worded sounds to me like he was either at that ball field with someone else or he was out alone.

The way it's worded leads me to believe he was prescribed meds and he's court ordered to take them as prescribed.

No that is a blank if he will be prescribed any medication he will need to take it it does not say the medication you are prescribed, you have to take that part you all wrong IMO

Yes it states he is on house arrest, but he can go out as long as he is with his grandmother or mother, maybe he was with another adult.

This was just added the medication has been there since day one....

Apparently LE had it all wrong since he pulled his filings...

I am sure this is to please the scared people of St. Johns that they will not have to see him whoooppeee he gets to be at home with the two woman that love him the most. I am sure they are very happy with the outcome, she still can take him to the store, the post office whatever, just not to any big events guess it offends the small people of St. Johns to see the boy actually having fun and being a kid. Hopefully he will be able to leave St. Johns soon....IMO

[GentleBreeze]

Sounds to me like someone needed the rules explained to them ...AGAIN.

I did notice the part where he can't attend any formal events...I don't believe that was there before.


No AP News? No local news reports??? Where is VH??? Was she there at today's hearing???

I will have to go back and read the first set of rules put forth but I sure don't remember them being this long or precise.

If Wood went behind closed doors there was more to this than rumor. If not he would have been in the courtroom as fast as he could get there to let the media hear HIM refute ALL of the allegations.

For Roca to add specifically that he cant attend any public events makes me think he did sneak off and go to the dugout.

They even laid the law down that he cant hang around with anyone who is a felon. Not even one on probation.

Sure seems like Judge agreed that the stipulations needed to be lengthened.

Linda what kind of meds do you think they have him on that he MUST take as prescribed?

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

No that is a blank if he will be prescribed any medication he will need to take it it does not say the medication you are prescribed, you have to take that part you all wrong IMO

Yes it states he is on house arrest, but he can go out as long as he is with his grandmother or mother, maybe he was with another adult.

This was just added the medication has been there since day one....

Apparently LE had it all wrong since he pulled his filings...

I am sure this is to please the scared people of St. Johns that they will not have to see him whoooppeee he gets to be at home with the two woman that love him the most. I am sure they are very happy with the outcome, she still can take him to the store, the post office whatever, just not to any big events guess it offends the small people of St. Johns to see the boy actually having fun and being a kid. Hopefully he will be able to leave St. Johns soon....IMO

Yes, I am sure it would offend most anyone if they saw a killer out having fun on their streets while knowing all along two men are in the graveyard because of this fun loving kid. That has to be creepy don't ya think?:ohmy:



imo

[VictimHelp]

IF the mom had the money, she might would do that.
IF the family had the money and some more information (evidence) they might would be willing to do that.
IF investigators would release ALL the evidence, some of us might be willing to do that.

But really, what relevance does it have here to keep harping on about flyers? Is that the best of discussions concerning this case? IMO not.

The only relevance is if the mom and family believe he's innocent. If they know he's guilty, it's a sham to put them up. And there is no cost involved. In St. Johns it would take less than 10 minutes.

[VictimHelp]

The point is...money or not, if that were my kid, and I believed he was innocent or there was a single shred of exculpatory evidence, I would be shouting it from the roof tops. I would be calling reporters and the media. I would spend my time and effort getting all of my "supporters" that believed the same to demand the police look for the real killer.
If that meant hanging flyers on every telephone poll in town and neighboring towns, that's exactly what I'd be doing with my 4 hour a day break from supervising my son. I would be talking to everyone that knew Tim and Vince. Hoping to glean some information that the investigators may have missed.

So what is his mother doing?

Linda--plain and simple the boy is guilty that is why no one has done anthing. If it were my kid and I thought he was innocent, I'ld be doing all those things.

[VictimHelp]

And I certainly would do it before he is sentenced.

imo

We're not talking about hours and days, although I would do that. She could devote 20-30 minutes day doing interviews, calling the police, flyers, etc. And there would be no cost.

[GentleBreeze]

There was no need to explain the rules to them again, they added rules. Now he can only be out with his mom or grandma. I do not believe that is house arrest but what ever floats there boat. Your on house arrest, but can go places with your mom and grandma doesn't make to much since to me. The medication was a blank rule, does not say he is on meds, so that is spreading false lies...

Yes, he is on house arrest. So something made that change.

He will only be allowed to go with either his mom or grandma to designated places like to see the evaluating doctors,school, hearings, etc. His probation officer will have to be notified before he goes.

I have never seen it mandated that drugs must be taken as prescribed if it was just inconsequential drugs. That is usually done when the court and the court appointed doctors thinks they need to take a drug to help them with a particular mental diagnosis they are thinking they may have. They would not list the type or name of drug in the motion imo.

imo

[VictimHelp]

I am just curious as to why many believe a child that murdered two men doesn't belong in some secure facility getting intensive treatment? Surely 99% of the children residing in such places haven't killed anyone, yet it's okay for them to be there. Is there just something about this kid? Have any of you opposed to it ever even thought about all of the other kids living in a RTC?

If there was a ever a child that needed 24/7 supervision and intensive therapy, this boy is it! IMO

His crimes are far more serious than most can even comprehend. Yet many still believe it's better and perfectly acceptable for this boy to be out and about with his mom?

I just don't get it.

all IMO

There are 8 and 9 year olds who have spent far more time in juvie and/or facilities like Adobe Mtn. that have done far less like smoking MJ or vandalism.

[VictimHelp]

If there are people that hate her in the community, they're gonna hate her regardless if she's out proclaiming her son's innocence or not.

If she really believes he's innocent, she has nothing to lose and everything to gain for herself and her son. Putting myself in her shoes and assuming she believes he's innocent, I would be hoping someone would cough up an anonymous clue as to who the real killer was. Someone that was afraid to come forward before or wasn't forthright with investigators.

FYI Many opinions have changed since the beginning of this case.


I don't hate anyone. I'm offended you called me or anyone with an opposing POV a "hater." It just so happens, I don't care for murderers, never have.

I have never labeled those with an opposing point a view, a "murderer lover" .....so....... I would appreciate the same respect.


Great post Linda!

[VictimHelp]

Sounds to me like someone needed the rules expalined to them ...AGAIN.

I did notice the part where he can't attend any formal events...I don't believe that was there before.


No AP News? No local news reports??? Where is VH??? Was she there at today's hearing???

Thank goodness the judge finally did something. At least he won't be running amuck in the community or having sleepovers with felons. I'ld prefer he stay at the juvenile detention center but I can live with this and I think the community can, until sentencing, where he can get REAL therapy.

[VictimHelp]

I will have to go back and read the first set of rules put forth but I sure don't remember them being this long or precise.

If Wood went behind closed doors there was more to this than rumor. If not he would have been in the courtroom as fast as he could get there to let the media hear HIM refute ALL of the allegations.

For Roca to add specifically that he cant attend any public events makes me think he did sneak off and go to the dugout.

They even laid the law down that he cant hang around with anyone who is a felon. Not even one on probation.

Sure seems like Judge agreed that the stipulations needed to be lengthened.

Linda what kind of meds do you think they have him on that he MUST take as prescribed?

imoo

My guess is something like PROZAC.

[VictimHelp]

Linda, I couldn't make it but I wish I had.

[VictimHelp]

I'm all about "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY" and "ACCOUNTABILITY" ...in case you were unable to infer that from my posts.

Personally, I find it sad that so many people these days have made blaming someone else into a full time job! IMO

I am also perplexed so many are unable to draw inferences from information provided. Seems it's a lost art. IMO

I've said from day one, the mom and the boy need to be held accountable and take responsibilty for their actions. I would add in sentencing the boy also needs to show genuine remorse.

[eagargal]

Sounds to me like someone needed the rules expalined to them ...AGAIN.

I did notice the part where he can't attend any formal events...I don't believe that was there before.


No AP News? No local news reports??? Where is VH??? Was she there at today's hearing???

Here are links from two of the Phoenix stations regarding today's hearing:

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/other/story/State-withdraws-request-to-put-9-year-old-back-in/VZhOJvsP506EraIgOIrRRQ.cspx?p=Comments

http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepagetopstory/stories/st-johns-news-061609-child-murder-suspect-custody.870630d7.html

The articles are pretty miserly sources of new information.

The Memorandum of Agreement was vague on many points regarding restrictions vs freedoms allowed during the furlough. The new order strictly defines the court's expectations.

There were probably enought frank violations or misinterpretations of the Agreement to prompt JR to issue the new order.

Also, there was obvious miscommunication between the parties. I'm sure there was a lively discussion in chambers regarding the fact the Probation Officer did not communicate his granting permission for the NM trip to the court. Per the new conditions, all communications are to be directed to the Probation Officer, who is now probably charged with communicating the information to the court and all attornies involved. Which is as it should be.

The medication clause is the same as stipulated in the Memorandum of Agreement. It is probably a standard statement, to be invoked if and when medications are prescribed.

At least the requirements have been clearly defined for all parties. IMO.

[sdn8tv]

We will take the small victories...
Let me tell you Mr. Whiting was made to look like a fool today. He got what I call a good reminder what the justice system is all about. He was basically told...do not waste this courts time again with these filings. You FAILED to notify all parties involved of this filing. From now on Mr. Whiting you will file proper protocal when filing in this court. All partieis will be notified.
How dare he say in his interview...we got what we wanted??? No Mr. Whiting you wanted this child put back in juveline detention...clearly this did not happen... the ONLY discussion about this in court was that Mr. Whiting will withdraw his request. There was a 20 minute discussion in judges quarters...a stern warning to get along. Eryn was NOT called into chambers...nor was she even talked to in the court. The PO was asked to discuss with CR later in the week his furlough conditions.

Those of you claiming that Eryn should be shouting from the roof tops really don't know much about this case.

[VictimHelp]

What kind of victories is house arrest...that means they violated terms of probation. For those of you cheering a boy getting away with double murder, you don't know the case very well...for those who still think he's innocent, still no one has offered a reward, put up any flyer, done any interview asking for the public's help in finding the killer...he confessed, pled guilty and committed the crime...there's not one thing mom and family have done to proclaim his innocence.

[GentleBreeze]

We will take the small victories...
Let me tell you Mr. Whiting was made to look like a fool today. He got what I call a good reminder what the justice system is all about. He was basically told...do not waste this courts time again with these filings. You FAILED to notify all parties involved of this filing. From now on Mr. Whiting you will file proper protocal when filing in this court. All partieis will be notified.
How dare he say in his interview...we got what we wanted??? No Mr. Whiting you wanted this child put back in juveline detention...clearly this did not happen... the ONLY discussion about this in court was that Mr. Whiting will withdraw his request. There was a 20 minute discussion in judges quarters...a stern warning to get along. Eryn was NOT called into chambers...nor was she even talked to in the court. The PO was asked to discuss with CR later in the week his furlough conditions.

Those of you claiming that Eryn should be shouting from the roof tops really don't know much about this case.

If she thought for one second he was innocent she would be protesting it with all her might and she would do so before he is sentenced.

How you deduce all of that I have no idea.

Wood told Whiting to more or less put up or shut up. SO Whiting had his witnesses ready to testify before the public hearing.:smile: Then all of a sudden they are behind closed doors in chambers instead of in a public media filled room. Hmmm

Whiting got exactly what he wanted. They agreed to everything imo even the house arrest.

It shows that Whiting did have legitimate concerns.

Now the guidelines are very clear and precise.

Whiting has him off the street until at least sentencing. It was a good day for CA Whiting.

Now the town will have a chance to calm down some which only escalated when they saw this kid out fancy free.

imoo

[dgfred]

If she thought for one second he was innocent she would be protesting it with all her might and she would do so before he is sentenced.

How you deduce all of that I have no idea.

Wood told Whiting to more or less put up or shut up. SO Whiting had his witnesses ready to testify before the public hearing.:smile: Then all of a sudden they are behind closed doors in chambers instead of in a public media filled room. Hmmm

Whiting got exactly what he wanted. They agreed to everything imo even the house arrest.

It shows that Whiting did have legitimate concerns.

Now the guidelines are very clear and precise.

Whiting has him off the street until at least sentencing. It was a good day for CA Whiting.

Now the town will have a chance to calm down some which only escalated when they saw this kid out fancy free.

imoo

You are wrong, then wrong some more. Whiting got nothing... his witnesses were ready (but not there :rolleyes: ) They were behind closed doors I guess to keep Whiting from being completely humiliated with this waste of time. Everything is almost exactly as it was before with the guidelines, just clearer to each party... the mom was not even in the meeting. How is it a good day for the CA, more like embarrassing.
I don't blame you for grasping straws from this, but you could at least be logical about it and admit the filing was a crock. I bet there aint another one :laugh: . Whiting couldn't put up, so I guess he will have to shut up then.

[dgfred]

What kind of victories is house arrest...that means they violated terms of probation. For those of you cheering a boy getting away with double murder, you don't know the case very well...for those who still think he's innocent, still no one has offered a reward, put up any flyer, done any interview asking for the public's help in finding the killer...he confessed, pled guilty and committed the crime...there's not one thing mom and family have done to proclaim his innocence.

What? Everything is basically the same... just made sure each side was completely clear on the rules. He did NOT violate anything, nice try.
Keep repeating to yourself and your double that the boy committed the crime, admitted it and the family believes he did it... maybe you will even believe it sooner or later. Nobody is cheering anybody 'getting away' with double murder, that is just a piss-poor excuse for logic and reason.

[dgfred]

That's exactly my point. He was only 8 when he murdered two men, one his own father. IMO Without professional 24/7 supervision and intensive therapy what hope does this kid have at growing into a responsible law abiding adult? IMO..NONE!

I find it odd that some of the same people that make excuses for this killer...are wanting to execute / lock up forever ...the young man that butchered cats, labeling him everything from a psychopath to a future serial killer.

Double standard?

If ya ask me...this kid has the cat killer beat by a mile! IMO

Nobody asked. So he is 8 when he supposidly murders his DAD, let's see says the judge... let the boy go live with his mom since he is such a danger to everyone... riiiigggghhhhhht. IMO and it seems the judge's too, the best thing for the boy is being with his mom.

[VictimHelp]

What? Everything is basically the same... just made sure each side was completely clear on the rules. He did NOT violate anything, nice try.
Keep repeating to yourself and your double that the boy committed the crime, admitted it and the family believes he did it... maybe you will even believe it sooner or later. Nobody is cheering anybody 'getting away' with double murder, that is just a piss-poor excuse for logic and reason.

Keep repeating to yourself that the boy is innocent and maybe you'll believe it. The judge put him under house arrest for violating his probation.

[VictimHelp]

Nobody asked. So he is 8 when he supposidly murders his DAD, let's see says the judge... let the boy go live with his mom since he is such a danger to everyone... riiiigggghhhhhht. IMO and it seems the judge's too, the best thing for the boy is being with his mom.

The boy is a danger, that's why he's under house arrest. The best interest of the community, and the boy is to have him in a 24/7 psychological facility. Even it was revealed he's taking meds, sounds like he belongs there now before he kills again.

[Shameonme]

Thank you for providing this "information".

I believe your last paragraph and I'm so sick having to see the peat and repeat. People can shout from their computers what they Would or would NOT do all day long...but I'm here to tell them something they can depend on. Absolutely NO ONE knows what they will do until they are actually faced with a situation. Over the years I've witnessed many know it alls have to eat their words. So this blabbing if they were so and so they would do so and so is utter NONSENSE. It’s also just as disgusting. Is it narrow minds or what?? Or is it only about winning an argument?? MHOO

I could'nt agree more Fep. It's so easy to sit back and act holyer than thou and it makes me sick. Were talking about a very young child who some would like to see treated as if he was 25.

[VictimHelp]

If she thought for one second he was innocent she would be protesting it with all her might and she would do so before he is sentenced.

How you deduce all of that I have no idea.

Wood told Whiting to more or less put up or shut up. SO Whiting had his witnesses ready to testify before the public hearing.:smile: Then all of a sudden they are behind closed doors in chambers instead of in a public media filled room. Hmmm

Whiting got exactly what he wanted. They agreed to everything imo even the house arrest.

It shows that Whiting did have legitimate concerns.

Now the guidelines are very clear and precise.

Whiting has him off the street until at least sentencing. It was a good day for CA Whiting.

Now the town will have a chance to calm down some which only escalated when they saw this kid out fancy free.

imoo

Great Post! It's about time Judge Roca put the boy under house arrest! I'm tired of these liberals who would have all these criminals loose on the streets committing more crimes. Why this boy gets special treatment when other boys his age are in juvie or in state facilities for lesser crimes is beyond me.

[VictimHelp]

I could'nt agree more Fep. It's so easy to sit back and act holyer than thou and it makes me sick. Were talking about a very young child who some would like to see treated as if he was 25.

a young child that cold-bloodedly killed 2 men.

[Shameonme]

a young child that cold-bloodedly killed 2 men.

Could you please show me where he was convicted of cold blooded murder of anyone. TIA

ETA It's funny you would quote my reply hit home did it

[dgfred]

Gentlebreeze is right and you are wrong! If Whiting had nothing why did they put CR under house arrest? :w00t:

OK, that is the rope y'all are going to hang on to, I see the desperation.

What, with this 'house arrest' is different for the boy than before?

[dgfred]

I liked this part:

"Whiting said he did have a list of witnesses on hand at the hearing to testify to what was written in the motion filed on June 5.

He said he decided to work with the other attorneys to find an agreement instead.

He said that agreement, which is an order of furlough conditions, was better than putting people through the burden of testifying.

Williams said he respects Whiting and does not think the motion had any hint or intention of malice."

from the abc article

and this:

"Whiting believes the result of Tuesday's hearing, an order of furlough conditions, will help all parties because it is the first such comprehensive outline of all the conditions.

He said this will make it easier for the mom to understand and easily identify what her son is and is not allowed to do."

Of course he didn't want to put them through the burden of perjury in front of the judge. If the furlough was wanted to be revoked, bring on the witnesses. Why file to revoke, if you are going to back down... and leave the boy with his mom afterall. Yeah, no malice at all... just poison the public's perception even more, just like before. What a waste of of the public's time and money.

[dgfred]

Same question. What is different for the boy with 'house arrest'?

Absolutely nothing.

[PHXMOTHER]

You people are very funny. House arrest hum the only change now is he can only go out with his mom or grandma. So guess what VH you will still see him at walmart, walking down the street with his mom or grandma, you will see him at the convenient store, none of these places are SOCIAL EVENTS. All they did was stop him from going to fun activities with the small minded people in St. Johns that is it...LE will say whatever he wants on T.V, but there were some in the court room that knows the judge was stricked on MR WHITING not ERYN, this was to please the community not wanting him to be at SOCIAL EVENTS... Thats it point blank...Witch is not a big deal hell I have a 10 year old that will not leave this house without my parents, there father, or myself. So I really dont think it is going to be much differant for this little boy. Whats coming up next? 4th of July so easy to sit on your own roof top and enjoy the show, no one can stop him from that:)

[VictimHelp]

Could you please show me where he was convicted of cold blooded murder of anyone. TIA

ETA It's funny you would quote my reply hit home did it

Could you please show me what the Romero's are doing or the mom is doing to "find the supposed killers"? Simple logic shows he's the killer. It's funny that anyone would believe he is innocent since he confessed and pled guilty.

[VictimHelp]

You guys are funny! No one I know except CR has been on house arrest. The only other person I;ve heard of under house arrest is Michael Vick.

[dgfred]

No desperation here...........it turned out almost exactly as I thought & stated it would. A review of the terms & conditions written out in such a way that his mother and he could grasp it. He's exactly where I thought he would be.

Well, it's apparent to me his mother/granny couldn't grasp the seriousness of the boy's situation and claims to not have understood the need for constant supervision ( ballpark incident) and the need to stay away from convicted felons and guns. IMO

'Almost exactly as I thought & stated it would' , yeah right. What happened to the ankle bracelet, what happened to 24/7 therapy, what happened to revoking the furlough, what happened to scolding the mom? I think the review of the terms and conditions were more for Whiting, since he filed without investigation the allegations. He is with his mom and grandma... I'm glad that you now think this is where he should be. Ballpark incident??? what? where is evidence of that?
Nothing changed... yep = desperation imo.

[Shameonme]

Could you please show me what the Romero's are doing or the mom is doing to "find the supposed killers"? Simple logic shows he's the killer. It's funny that anyone would believe he is innocent since he confessed and pled guilty.

You call what was on that tape confessing ? I guess I missed where he plead guilty to cold blooded murder could you please provide a link for that guilty plea.

[GentleBreeze]

OK, that is the rope y'all are going to hang on to, I see the desperation.

What, with this 'house arrest' is different for the boy than before?

Because if he was supposed to be on house arrest all this time and Whiting had credible witnesses saying otherwise and I certainly think he did, then the boy,the mom and the grandma would be in gross violation.

Now if Liz and Eryn even denied he had ever gone to the ball field and credible witnesses lined up before Roca telling him the opposite and he believed the witnesses then that would mean neither Liz nor Eryn knew where in the heck he was.........leaving him certainly not on house arrest but totally unsupervised.

Also I think there were also credible witnesses that Eryn is still hanging out with the felon and brought CR around him when they already knew one felon cant be around another felon.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

You call what was on that tape confessing ? I guess I missed where he plead guilty to cold blooded murder could you please provide a link for that guilty plea.

We are the public we do not have to agree with any case even this one. We are allowed to have our own opinions as to whether he is guilty or not. Like people continue to have their own opinions about OJs double homicides and others.

No one is looking for some unknown mysterious killer in St. John. Not even his own family.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

You sure don't know much. LOL House arrest is a common thing and most of the time they wear that little ankle bracelet and can only leave their house during the day time and that is usually only allowed to go to a job.

So all this jumping for joy about house arrest for the child is all about nothing. It is a very lenient house arrest. And fwiw. I believe it is a good thing....the child's safety is "part" of the reason it's a good thing.

I agree it is a good thing. It protects the boy's safety and it makes sure that the defendant is not allowed in any public venue around the citizens. It serves two very important purposes. Both which were grave concerns for Whiting.

imo

[Shameonme]

We are the public we do not have to agree with any case even this one. We are allowed to have our own opinions as to whether he is guilty or not. Like people continue to have their own opinions about OJs double homicides and others.

No one is looking for some unknown mysterious killer in St. John. Not even his own family.

imo

As you are allowed to have your opinion so am I. What does OJ have to do with this case. So it ok with you for a child of 8 at the time to be treated as an adult. That little boy was so scared he would have signed anything to go home. This is MHO.

[dgfred]

Because if he was supposed to be on house arrest all this time and Whiting had credible witnesses saying otherwise and I certainly think he did, then the boy,the mom and the grandma would be in gross violation.

Now if Liz and Eryn even denied he had ever gone to the ball field and credible witnesses lined up before Roca telling him the opposite and he believed the witnesses then that would mean neither Liz nor Eryn knew where in the heck he was.........leaving him certainly not on house arrest but totally unsupervised.

Also I think there were also credible witnesses that Eryn is still hanging out with the felon and brought CR around him when they already knew one felon cant be around another felon.

imo

Spin it however you want, everyone can see that the mom/boy did nothing wrong and the so-called no-show witnesses were shown to be false in their allegations. No credible witness were there to refute that the boy had done NOTHING wrong. IF there were any witnesses at all, why didn't they bring them on??? Why file to revoke his furlough if you are going to back down? 'One felon can't be around another felon' ooooh, nice cheap shot. But reality is a good thing, in this case especially when nothing changed regarding the boy's furlough, and the filing was shown to be a bunch of malarky. All these credible witnesses (that you feel were available) should have came forward and said what they saw... if they don't mind a little perjury charge. Why waste the state's time and money, IF these credible witnesses were available?
All can see it was a witchhunt all along, and the hunters were scolded and put back in their place. Must have been quite embarrassing for Whiting et al, don't ya think?

[Shameonme]

"Scared"??? I have seen zero evidence the boy is scared of anything.

You don't think trowing an 8 year old child in with kids twice his age would scare him so bad he would do just about anything to go home.

[dgfred]

Your reading comprehension skills aren't quite up to par. I repeatedly said if *I* were the judge *I would slap a ankle bracelet on him.

I repeatedly said, I doubt his furlough would be revoked. I also said the terms and conditions will be gone over AGAIN.

It's not rocket science. It's clearly stated the state had a list of witnesses ready to testify. The newly clarified terms specifically mentions public events and even gives examples.

The defense clearly stated there was no malice in the state's filings.

I am capable of connecting the dots and drawing inferences.

I still believe he will be sentenced to a RTC.

Sorry I don't read as well as you. Little snarky huh, I don't blame you for being disappointed. What is stated and what was shown to be true are two different things. The defense stated that they didn't think any malice was involved... didn't want to further embarrass him one would think. OK, we will try and remember now what your revised 'thinking' was. Nothing changed with the furlough, spin it however you think is appropriate... it will not change the fact that the filing was a pile of junk meant to further poison the public's perception of the boy and mom. I also don't mind you being so defensive when your position was shown to be wrong... am sure Whiting probably acted the same way.

[Shameonme]

LOL about OJ. Some people have trouble detaching one message board case they follow from another but they are all individual cases and certainly not all alike.

Really, I was wondering how this boy and OJ were in anyway connected. It's really sad some what a pound of flesh from a 9 year old.

[Shameonme]

ROFLMAO! The kid wasn't IN anywhere with kids TWICE his age!

You know this how. Juvie is juvie

[dgfred]

There is no witch hunt.....even the boy's attorney confirms that.

Or is he part of your imagined HUGE CONSPIRACY to frame an innocent little boy too?

No huge conspiracy... just incompetance. I'm finding a few diehards that are so hung up on bashing the boy and his mom that they cannot admit they were wrong in their thinking and perceptions... should I have said hardheads, or diehards? Everyone can see that the filing was bull, I don't see why you are so hung up on defending your position when it is plain to see.

[Shameonme]

No huge conspiracy... just incompetance. I'm finding a few diehards that are so hung up on bashing the boy and his mom that they cannot admit they were wrong in their thinking and perceptions... should I have said hardheads, or diehards? Everyone can see that the filing was bull, I don't see why you are so hung up on defending your position when it is plain to see.

H E double hockey sticks that can't even bring their-self to call him a child they have to refer to him as a felon.

[GentleBreeze]

As you are allowed to have your opinion so am I. What does OJ have to do with this case. So it ok with you for a child of 8 at the time to be treated as an adult. That little boy was so scared he would have signed anything to go home. This is MHO.

Where is he being tried? I thought he pled his case down?

Isn't this case being handled by the juvenile justice system? What a adult court are you talking about? Adults who commit one homicide much less two usually go to jail and then to prison if convicted or plea.

Ah, maybe so but his attorney sure wouldn't have if there was one smidgen of exonerating evidence that would have proved he was innocent.

imo

[Shameonme]

dgfred, with some it's only a game... It's all about being right. They play detective from the start and form an opinion with very little sound information. They will NEVER admit being wrong...that is not how the game is played by those who follow cases. They will argue their point till hell freezes over knowing it is wrong all along. May not be so bad if it's done with others who do the same thing but the people who only are interested in one particular case because it happened in their area and is a true concern are not playing the game and it does get awfully frustrating. Just what I’ve observed being on a missing teachers board and checking posting history of some of the game players (for lack of a better term).

ITA Fep and even though I live no where near this town I have to speak up when adults what to bash a little boy. If the tables were turned as I think it was you or fred said I wonder how they would feel. One thing I have learned in 58 years of living is bad things can happen to anyone any family at anytime.

[GentleBreeze]

So some are right back around to talking about posters rather than replying to their posts about the case.

I thought CW frowns on the idea of berating and personally attacking individual posters for their views and wants us to stay on topic about THE CASE????:confused::confused:

I recall recently she locked this board for that very reason because it became such infighting and pettiness.

imo

[PHXMOTHER]

Well I would say people in glass houses should not throw stones IMO accourse

[dgfred]

I'm certain that would suit you just fine, as your position has been shown to be wrong concerning the filing and the results of that filing.
Sorry you are so disappointed that Whiting made such a blunder, and in my opinion he is probably embarrassed too.

[GentleBreeze]

I'm certain that would suit you just fine, as your position has been shown to be wrong concerning the filing and the results of that filing.
Sorry you are so disappointed that Whiting made such a blunder, and in my opinion he is probably embarrassed too.

I am not going to carry on a personal conversatiion with you dgfred. You may want this board closed but I do not. After this I sincerely hope you get back on topic which is THE case not what you think about me which is totally irrelevant to the case and to me.

So this is the last time I will respond to your posts directed AT ME.

You believe what you wish to believe if it makes you feel better. I am in no way disappointed with Whiting. I am very proud of Whiting and I find him a totally honorable man.:rose: I think he had the goods on them with his witnesses and they knew it but he is a tolerant and patient man who has deep legitimate concerns for this boy and for the entire community he represents or he would not have brought the witnesses forth to testify before the Judge. IMO, the defense agreed to every stipulation that Whiting set forth. IMO, Whiting wanted to insure the violations would not continue.

He now has rules in place that are clear and precise and so does ma and grandma. There will be no further excuse, for example "oh I didnt know we couldnt ever see the felon, I just thought we couldnt live with him":rolleyes: OR "Oh I didnt know that just going to a ballgame was seen as a public event":rolleyes:

They have laid it out very clear this time and now there will be no excuse why he should be out at any public gatherings when it is obvious he is not wanted there by the citizens of St. John.

imo

[VictimHelp]

You know this how. Juvie is juvie

Simply put, he shouldn't have committed the crime.

[VictimHelp]

Thanks Shameonme. I live in Georgia and post on the missing teacher's boards at other web sites. I saw this news story on one site and it caught my attention and I've followed it ever sense. I first was only a non member reader here at IS then I wanted to check out a nic that caused us so much trouble on the missing teacher's board so I joined to use the search feature. Then the bashing and expressed hatred got so bad I had to speak up.

I am 59 and have seen bad things happen to good families more times than I care to remember and you're correct it can happen at anytime without warning no matter how good someone thinks they are. That is only "Wisdom".
Our saying here in Georgia is "Don't judge someone or say what you would do if you were them until you've walked in their shoes". Not a single one here will fit into this childs shoes but they might get his Moms and grandmothers own their feet but it would be a poorly fit at best. I fully believe in the saying, "You reap what you sow." The good, bad and ugly. Krama will take a bad and ugly lick at some at some point and time. No doubts. I have to hope I'd have compassion but I may not.

I can't belive there are some diehards on this board who think he is innocent when family and mom haven't done anything to rpoclaim his innocence, when he's confessed and pled guilty. Maybe Karma will come to whoever is responsible for killing Vince and Tim, if you believe in Karma.

[VictimHelp]

I am not going to carry on a personal conversatiion with you dgfred. You may want this board closed but I do not. After this I sincerely hope you get back on topic which is THE case not what you think about me which is totally irrelevant to the case and to me.

So this is the last time I will respond to your posts directed AT ME.

You believe what you wish to believe if it makes you feel better. I am in no way disappointed with Whiting. I am very proud of Whiting and I find him a totally honorable man.:rose: I think he had the goods on them with his witnesses and they knew it but he is a tolerant and patient man who has deep legitimate concerns for this boy and for the entire community he represents or he would not have brought the witnesses forth to testify before the Judge. IMO, the defense agreed to every stipulation that Whiting set forth. IMO, Whiting wanted to insure the violations would not continue.

He now has rules in place that are clear and precise and so does ma and grandma. There will be no further excuse, for example "oh I didnt know we couldnt ever see the felon, I just thought we couldnt live with him":rolleyes: OR "Oh I didnt know that just going to a ballgame was seen as a public event":rolleyes:

They have laid it out very clear this time and now there will be no excuse why he should be out at any public gatherings when it is obvious he is not wanted there by the citizens of St. John.

imo

Excellent post GB. If the boy and mom hadn't violated probation, he wouldn't be under house arrest. IMO.

[Shameonme]

Thanks Shameonme. I live in Georgia and post on the missing teacher's boards at other web sites. I saw this news story on one site and it caught my attention and I've followed it ever sense. I first was only a non member reader here at IS then I wanted to check out a nic that caused us so much trouble on the missing teacher's board so I joined to use the search feature. Then the bashing and expressed hatred got so bad I had to speak up.

I am 59 and have seen bad things happen to good families more times than I care to remember and you're correct it can happen at anytime without warning no matter how good someone thinks they are. That is only "Wisdom".
Our saying here in Georgia is "Don't judge someone or say what you would do if you were them until you've walked in their shoes". Not a single one here will fit into this childs shoes but they might get his Moms and grandmothers own their feet but it would be a poorly fit at best. I fully believe in the saying, "You reap what you sow." The good, bad and ugly. Krama will take a bad and ugly lick at some at some point and time. No doubts. I have to hope I'd have compassion but I may not.

Thanks Fep for the nice reply and ITA with all you said. Sadly I have to leave for the day so you be good and I will try and catch up in the AM

[PHXMOTHER]

Excellent post GB. If the boy and mom hadn't violated probation, he wouldn't be under house arrest. IMO.

That is simple house arrest no cerfew, this was just to make sure he wasnt at any social gatherings, so sorry VH. You will still see him walking around town into the stores ect. He just can not be at SOCIAL GATHERINGS, and he must be out and about with his mother, or grandmother. House arrest doesnt meen that you must stay in your house 24/7. This is to make the small minds of ST. Johns people happy thats it, not that this child did anything wrong. You were not at court you do not know that they judge did not say anything to Eryn only to Whiting because he messed up on this one. Eryn was happy nothing changed except SOCIAL EVENTS!!! So believe me ERYN and CR are happy this morning...

[sdn8tv]

If she thought for one second he was innocent she would be protesting it with all her might and she would do so before he is sentenced.

How you deduce all of that I have no idea.

Wood told Whiting to more or less put up or shut up. SO Whiting had his witnesses ready to testify before the public hearing.:smile: Then all of a sudden they are behind closed doors in chambers instead of in a public media filled room. Hmmm

Whiting got exactly what he wanted. They agreed to everything imo even the house arrest.

It shows that Whiting did have legitimate concerns.

Now the guidelines are very clear and precise.

Whiting has him off the street until at least sentencing. It was a good day for CA Whiting.

Now the town will have a chance to calm down some which only escalated when they saw this kid out fancy free.

imoo

Okay...you know all about this case...

[PHXMOTHER]

LOL. House arrest is SERIOUS! Mom messed up with sleepovers at felons. Next time the judge will offer no leeway. I was at the court and it looked bad for the defense.

Really if you believe it looked bad for the defense, then I so dont believe you were there:w00t:
Tell me what did the judge have to say to Eryn?
What did he have to say to Whiting?

[sdn8tv]

If she thought for one second he was innocent she would be protesting it with all her might and she would do so before he is sentenced.

How you deduce all of that I have no idea.

Wood told Whiting to more or less put up or shut up. SO Whiting had his witnesses ready to testify before the public hearing.:smile: Then all of a sudden they are behind closed doors in chambers instead of in a public media filled room. Hmmm

Whiting got exactly what he wanted. They agreed to everything imo even the house arrest.

It shows that Whiting did have legitimate concerns.

Now the guidelines are very clear and precise.

Whiting has him off the street until at least sentencing. It was a good day for CA Whiting.

Now the town will have a chance to calm down some which only escalated when they saw this kid out fancy free.

imoo

Who were his witnesses?
Whiting ate crow...his own collegues wouldn't even sit with him when he invited them to sit up front with him.

It is so easy to sit behind a computer when one doesn't know a single person "involved" in this case and think they know everything...this is what professional bloggers do.
wait and see what happens next week...

[sdn8tv]

Well...at least it will be finally over....with any luck...on

at 11:30 a.m. on July 16.

Nope...just another status hearing.

[sdn8tv]

LOL. House arrest is SERIOUS! Mom messed up with sleepovers at felons. Next time the judge will offer no leeway. I was at the court and it looked bad for the defense.

I was also at the court...exactly how did this look bad for the defense. They didn't discuss NOT ONE of Mr. Whiting "allegations" What looked bad was the scolding the Mr. Whiting received for not playing by the rules. How did you like when Mr. Whiting tried to change the subject when JR asked him to withdraw the request.

[sdn8tv]

I can't belive there are some diehards on this board who think he is innocent when family and mom haven't done anything to rpoclaim his innocence, when he's confessed and pled guilty. Maybe Karma will come to whoever is responsible for killing Vince and Tim, if you believe in Karma.

I believe it already has...

[Details]

Could you please show me what the Romero's are doing or the mom is doing to "find the supposed killers"? Simple logic shows he's the killer. It's funny that anyone would believe he is innocent since he confessed and pled guilty.The confession was garbage - identical to so many other proven false confessions - he repeated what they said, and DID NOT accurately represent the crime scene - the gold standard for a true confession. Even the smallest details (where was the gun left) - he got wrong.

The plea was a rational choice that he made as many others have - plead to get out of jail, or go to trial and stay in jail.

The forensic evidence shows the shooter to be taller than Tim. It's only rational to look at the evidence that does not have human failings - the forensics. Two downward angled shots to the chest - only one way that happens - if the gun is higher than the chest! The main victim, the one with more bullet holes, and no small bit of overkill - is not the boy's father, but is Tim. So the motive does not fit the boy either.


Do you still believe Stephanie Crowe's brother killed her? He confessed too. In fact, a friend of his also confessed to doing it with him. He was much older than this boy, had a good family and education - but these police tactics (lie to say you have proof, tell them they'll do better if they just admit it, use subtle pressure techniques) are designed to successfully pressure hardened adult criminals - they're overkill and generate false confessions quite often. Which doesn't mean the tactics are wrong - what police are SUPPOSED to do is get details from the suspect (details they DO NOT feed him) that match the crime scene (where did you leave the gun) that no one else would know - and if those details match, then you've got your true confession, otherwise it's a false one. The police lied even about that - they claimed he knew his father was shot in the chest, and with him face down, only the killer would know that. Turns out the father was not shot in the chest - more lies - just like their lies that they knew he'd done it, they had a witness who saw him, that they knew it was his gun.

It was an 8 year old boy, pressured by police who lied to him (just like Stephanie Crowe's brother and friend was lied to) who accepted as a child should, that the adults were in control and they had to follow what they said.


Looking at all the evidence - it all says this is an incredibly weak case, and that they should be looking to other suspects. The prosecutor recognized the first bit of this - that's why the ridiculous plea bargain, blackmailing a 9 year old to plead guilty or remain isolated from his mother in solitary (I don't think any 9 year old would make a different choice). I hope they're quietly doing the second.

[garcia]

Who were his witnesses?
Whiting ate crow...his own collegues wouldn't even sit with him when he invited them to sit up front with him.

It is so easy to sit behind a computer when one doesn't know a single person "involved" in this case and think they know everything...this is what professional bloggers do.
wait and see what happens next week...

Spin it anyway you want. Mom and CR broke the rules and he is under house arrest.

[tottenwess]

Sorry I don't read as well as you. Little snarky huh, I don't blame you for being disappointed. What is stated and what was shown to be true are two different things. The defense stated that they didn't think any malice was involved... didn't want to further embarrass him one would think. OK, we will try and remember now what your revised 'thinking' was. Nothing changed with the furlough, spin it however you think is appropriate... it will not change the fact that the filing was a pile of junk meant to further poison the public's perception of the boy and mom. I also don't mind you being so defensive when your position was shown to be wrong... am sure Whiting probably acted the same way.

:w00t: Ha, Ha, Ha...your funny...Whiting probably did act the same way!!!

[sdn8tv]

"Scared"??? I have seen zero evidence the boy is scared of anything.

Because you personally know his boy right? Oh wait...he's going to blog his fears...:angry:

[sdn8tv]

Spin it anyway you want. Mom and CR broke the rules and he is under house arrest.


The only thing spinning was Whiting's head...:thumbsup:

[VictimHelp]

The confession was garbage - identical to so many other proven false confessions - he repeated what they said, and DID NOT accurately represent the crime scene - the gold standard for a true confession. Even the smallest details (where was the gun left) - he got wrong.

The plea was a rational choice that he made as many others have - plead to get out of jail, or go to trial and stay in jail.

The forensic evidence shows the shooter to be taller than Tim. It's only rational to look at the evidence that does not have human failings - the forensics. Two downward angled shots to the chest - only one way that happens - if the gun is higher than the chest! The main victim, the one with more bullet holes, and no small bit of overkill - is not the boy's father, but is Tim. So the motive does not fit the boy either.


Do you still believe Stephanie Crowe's brother killed her? He confessed too. In fact, a friend of his also confessed to doing it with him. He was much older than this boy, had a good family and education - but these police tactics (lie to say you have proof, tell them they'll do better if they just admit it, use subtle pressure techniques) are designed to successfully pressure hardened adult criminals - they're overkill and generate false confessions quite often. Which doesn't mean the tactics are wrong - what police are SUPPOSED to do is get details from the suspect (details they DO NOT feed him) that match the crime scene (where did you leave the gun) that no one else would know - and if those details match, then you've got your true confession, otherwise it's a false one. The police lied even about that - they claimed he knew his father was shot in the chest, and with him face down, only the killer would know that. Turns out the father was not shot in the chest - more lies - just like their lies that they knew he'd done it, they had a witness who saw him, that they knew it was his gun.

It was an 8 year old boy, pressured by police who lied to him (just like Stephanie Crowe's brother and friend was lied to) who accepted as a child should, that the adults were in control and they had to follow what they said.


Looking at all the evidence - it all says this is an incredibly weak case, and that they should be looking to other suspects. The prosecutor recognized the first bit of this - that's why the ridiculous plea bargain, blackmailing a 9 year old to plead guilty or remain isolated from his mother in solitary (I don't think any 9 year old would make a different choice). I hope they're quietly doing the second.

Yes, mom and the Romeros SHOULD be looking for other suspects, but they are not. Because they know he did it. Mom and boy SHOULD have pled not guilty, but they didn't. CR SHOULD NOT have confessed but he did. And CR SHOULD not have killed the two men, but he did. They SHOULD NOT have violated rules of probation, but they did and he's under HOUSE ARREST.

[VictimHelp]

The only thing spinning was Whiting's head...:thumbsup:

and the mom and noy's head.

[Details]

Yes, mom and the Romeros SHOULD be looking for other suspects, but they are not. Because they know he did it. Mom and boy SHOULD have pled not guilty, but they didn't. CR SHOULD NOT have confessed but he did. And CR SHOULD not have killed the two men, but he did. They SHOULD NOT have violated rules of probation, but they did and he's under HOUSE ARREST.No - there's nothing they can do. They are not police, they cannot approach some drug dealer and ask if he maybe went and killed a few people, they have no money to put up a reward, and with all the haters working so hard to destroy their lives and their son's life, I can't see how they've got any time to do much but try to deal with that. The mom opposed the guilty plea. The boy took it - much like any child would take that deal - he found his father dead, was accused of doing it, locked in solitary for months, then told he could get out, and it could all get away if he'd just make this one statement to the court. His GAL opposed it, his mother opposed it (guess she believed he'd be found innocent,huh? - so much for your idea she thinks he's guilty - but the court said he got to choose (nonsense - you could get a child to agree to pretty much anything with a big enough lollipop, let alone what they were offering).

I don't see where they said he violated any rules - sounds like the supposed skipping school was found to be nonsense, leaving the state was with permission, no statement on the ball game - but because people were upset he doesn't get to go anymore - where did they say one thing about any violation? Eryn didn't get reprimanded, some rules just got made clearer. Changing the name doesn't change the reality.

[Crispy]

I'm not sure how people can't agree that the filing to return to juvenile was premature. The probation department knew where he was. All it would be is one phone call and say Hey was so and so at school? Why not? Also, if he knew the grandma had asked about the gun, why didn't he go and talk to the person she asked?

Even though I think it was a waste of court time, both sides got what they wanted. The boy is not back in juvenile, but he is not wondering around alone. IMO

What does concern me is the fact that this sentencing is taking so stinking long!!! I think the judge should kick this thing in the butt and get it moving.

[dgfred]

I am not going to carry on a personal conversatiion with you dgfred. You may want this board closed but I do not. After this I sincerely hope you get back on topic which is THE case not what you think about me which is totally irrelevant to the case and to me.

So this is the last time I will respond to your posts directed AT ME.

You believe what you wish to believe if it makes you feel better. I am in no way disappointed with Whiting. I am very proud of Whiting and I find him a totally honorable man.:rose: I think he had the goods on them with his witnesses and they knew it but he is a tolerant and patient man who has deep legitimate concerns for this boy and for the entire community he represents or he would not have brought the witnesses forth to testify before the Judge. IMO, the defense agreed to every stipulation that Whiting set forth. IMO, Whiting wanted to insure the violations would not continue.

He now has rules in place that are clear and precise and so does ma and grandma. There will be no further excuse, for example "oh I didnt know we couldnt ever see the felon, I just thought we couldnt live with him":rolleyes: OR "Oh I didnt know that just going to a ballgame was seen as a public event":rolleyes:

They have laid it out very clear this time and now there will be no excuse why he should be out at any public gatherings when it is obvious he is not wanted there by the citizens of St. John.

imo

I could care less what you do, if you post something that is completely off base then expect return replies blowing your statements out of the water. Of course there is always skip/scroll/and ignore.

There is enough disappointment about Whiting, from himself, his colleagues and everyone else to make up for your lack thereof. He bungled this in a big way and everyone sees it... almost.
Yeah, he had the goods BUT- he didn't use those 'goods', the goods were not around, and he was chastized by the judge for not following protecal.
What stipulations did Whiting set forth? Nothing new.
What violations did Whiting make sure wouldn't continue? None were violated.
They did not go to the ballgame! Where are you getting your info?
I'm glad they made it clearer, but it seems to have been done for Whiting so he wouldn't screw up anymore... not for the boy/mom.

Oh it is very honorable what he was trying to pull off: using deception to try to poison public attitude even more towards the boy, and mentioning non-existant credible witnesses to try and do so... yeah right. What in the world? Some here are unbelievable in their defense of the un-defensible, persistant and unbelievable.

[Details]

I truly appreciate your input but I appreciate more that you care enough to take the time to research what has actually transpired and I believe you did that by reading documents available on the case because what you brought out is in the documents.

An informative Post and sound opinions. Thank You.The internet court site is very helpful - sometimes a pain reading all the docs - but worth it.

[VictimHelp]

FEP

Eryn and the Romeros have done nothing, and will continue to do nothing because he's guilty. Research St. Johns, not one flyer or poster. Ask the local cops if she is inquiring about the killers, I have. Watch the media and the Romeros and Eryn not on it. That's my research. Show me in your research where they have done anything to have the public or themselves look for the killers. They don't have to look far, it's CR.

[dgfred]

LOL. House arrest is SERIOUS! Mom messed up with sleepovers at felons. Next time the judge will offer no leeway. I was at the court and it looked bad for the defense.

Ha, ha... nobody here will believe that for one second. If it was so, your post would be informative and reasonable and full of facts... which is far from what has been shown so far.
Nothing changed from the previous furlough, a blind person could see this. Next time.... yeah, keep on hoping.

[lurkinghere2]

Gentlebreeze is right and you are wrong! If Whiting had nothing why did they put CR under house arrest? :w00t:


IMO --
Because when he plead to 1 count of NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE the disposition was supposed to be in April & he was left on furlough until then.
Because the state's evals aren't done & the dispostion is now over 6 weeks late, so the idea of furlough without dispostion is getting on some folks nerves.
Because people don't get "furlough" while he's awaiting disposition, after he's plead to something.
Because when the original memorandum wasn't clear, was done by Carlyn (I think), & Whiting is wanting to put his own teeth into things now.
Because people are whining that he's too free & Whiting thought if it said "house arrest" it would make some feel better about the status of things.

All of this is speculation as to why on my part.

[sdn8tv]

Ha, ha... nobody here will believe that for one second. If it was so, your post would be informative and reasonable and full of facts... which is far from what has been shown so far.
Nothing changed from the previous furlough, a blind person could see this. Next time.... yeah, keep on hoping.


Again...the only thing discussed remotely close to the "alleged violations" was the Mr. Whiting needed to withdraw his request.

P.S. This wasn't a media packed courtroom. The three major AZ news stations were there. If I had to guess a number I would say there were probably a total of 30 people...there were maybe. Most of the scuttle noise I heard in the hallways was how stupid and wrong this was.

[sdn8tv]

And "if" this child was in detention...the state would be clothing him, feeding him, providing his education that he actually gets credit for, health care, dental care, etc...all of which is expected to be provided by Eryn and yet the MOA says CR must be basically glued to her 24/7 so how is she expected to work...go figure...

[Details]

IMO --
Because when he plead to 1 count of NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE the disposition was supposed to be in April & he was left on furlough until then.
Because the state's evals aren't done & the dispostion is now over 6 weeks late, so the idea of furlough without dispostion is getting on some folks nerves.
Because people don't get "furlough" while he's awaiting disposition, after he's plead to something.
Because when the original memorandum wasn't clear, was done by Carlyn (I think), & Whiting is wanting to put his own teeth into things now.
Because people are whining that he's too free & Whiting thought if it said "house arrest" it would make some feel better about the status of things.

All of this is speculation as to why on my part.Sounds about right to me - especially considering Eryn wasn't reprimanded and Whiting was, that no new restrictions - other than the public events bit, was added, nor was any allegation found to be true or a problem.

Judges aren't shy about reprimanding someone breaking probation conditions - they tend to be harsh and direct - used to dealing with criminals who will take any softness as a weakness. If Eryn wasn't chewed out - she wasn't doing anything he saw as wrong.

[sdn8tv]

Sounds about right to me - especially considering Eryn wasn't reprimanded and Whiting was, that no new restrictions - other than the public events bit, was added, nor was any allegation found to be true or a problem.

Judges aren't shy about reprimanding someone breaking probation conditions - they tend to be harsh and direct - used to dealing with criminals who will take any softness as a weakness. If Eryn wasn't chewed out - she wasn't doing anything he saw as wrong.

The only chewing was directed to Mr. Whiting.

[sdn8tv]

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/other/story/State-withdraws-request-to-put-9-year-old-back-in/VZhOJvsP506EraIgOIrRRQ.cspx

Hmmm...the truth be told...

However, the stipulation to those terms, as relayed at the hearing on June 16th, had nothing to do with the State's oral motion to withdraw their previous Request to Terminate Furlough. The State still had the opportunity to call witnesses and put on evidence to support the allegations made against the juvenile and his mother. They claimed to have subpoenaed witnesses, but never formally disclosed what witnesses they planned on calling. The hearing came and went without the State even attempting to substantiate one of the allegations made against the juvenile and his mother, and then attempted to somehow connect their withdrawal of the Request to Terminate Furlough with the stipulated Order Regarding Furlough Conditions.
The State filed a Request to Terminate Furlough and painted a very inaccurate and unfair picture of the boy's mother and her actions while her son has been on furlough. In truth, she has complied with everything the court and the probation department has asked of her."

[Details]

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/other/story/State-withdraws-request-to-put-9-year-old-back-in/VZhOJvsP506EraIgOIrRRQ.cspx

Hmmm...the truth be told...

However, the stipulation to those terms, as relayed at the hearing on June 16th, had nothing to do with the State's oral motion to withdraw their previous Request to Terminate Furlough. The State still had the opportunity to call witnesses and put on evidence to support the allegations made against the juvenile and his mother. They claimed to have subpoenaed witnesses, but never formally disclosed what witnesses they planned on calling. The hearing came and went without the State even attempting to substantiate one of the allegations made against the juvenile and his mother, and then attempted to somehow connect their withdrawal of the Request to Terminate Furlough with the stipulated Order Regarding Furlough Conditions.
The State filed a Request to Terminate Furlough and painted a very inaccurate and unfair picture of the boy's mother and her actions while her son has been on furlough. In truth, she has complied with everything the court and the probation department has asked of her."Ooopsie! Looks like the truth always gets out somehow.

"quickly" withdrew it - sounds like they really, really didn't want to address any questions about the truth of what was in their motion. A bunch of heat and noise, signifying lies - supposedly missed school on a day it wasn't held, an unapproved trip that was in fact approved, a supposed dugout visit they sure as heck don't want to discuss!

And the supposed "new" conditions were really just all the requirements being consolidated into one document. Niiice. Sounds like nothing they'd have us believe about the boy and this hearing was true.

[GentleBreeze]

The only chewing was directed to Mr. Whiting.

I have tried to find any media article that states this. Do you know which reporters said this?

This one which is in other articles as well does not say that.

During the hearing, [B]Judge Michael Roca asked all parties to do a better job sharing information to avoid miscommunication.

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/other/story/State-withdraws-request-to-put-9-year-old-back-in/VZhOJvsP506EraIgOIrRRQ.cspx

[Details]

Sounds like the judge is saying he doesn't want his time wasted anymore with allegations they missed school that wasn't in session, and unapproved trips that were approved, when a simple phone call would have resolved the whole thing.

[GentleBreeze]

Sounds like the judge is saying he doesn't want his time wasted anymore with allegations they missed school that wasn't in session, and unapproved trips that were approved, when a simple phone call would have resolved the whole thing.

Oh I don't think that at all. If that were true he would not have said "Judge Michael Roca asked all parties to do a better job sharing information to avoid miscommunication."

Whiting is not "all parties", in fact since the probation officer was there I think they may be the one that dropped the ball and did not keep records and failed to notify as they should have.

From what I remember it is always the DAs office that must be kept abreast of every bit of the changing information on a defendant who is out on furlough awaiting sentencing. IMO, the probation officer flubbed up and did not do their job leading to misinformation being drawn from their ineptness to notify the proper parties to share the information.

imo

[PHXMOTHER]

Oh I don't think that at all. If that were true he would not have said "Judge Michael Roca asked all parties to do a better job sharing information to avoid miscommunication."

Whiting is not "all parties", in fact since the probation officer was there I think they may be the one that dropped the ball and did not keep records and failed to notify as they should have.

From what I remember it is always the DAs office that must be kept abreast of every bit of the changing information on a defendant who is out on furlough awaiting sentencing. IMO, the probation officer flubbed up and did not do their job leading to misinformation being drawn from their ineptness to notify the proper parties to share the information.

imo


And he didnt call to confirm befor he filed not very smart...IMO I get what you are saying ''ALL PARTIES'' I would think that was the probation dept. ect. Not his mother and especially CR

[VictimHelp]

Oh I don't think that at all. If that were true he would not have said "Judge Michael Roca asked all parties to do a better job sharing information to avoid miscommunication."

Whiting is not "all parties", in fact since the probation officer was there I think they may be the one that dropped the ball and did not keep records and failed to notify as they should have.

From what I remember it is always the DAs office that must be kept abreast of every bit of the changing information on a defendant who is out on furlough awaiting sentencing. IMO, the probation officer flubbed up and did not do their job leading to misinformation being drawn from their ineptness to notify the proper parties to share the information.

imo

GB, so much crap piled high from the mutual I love each other posters. You and I both know the DA is doing his job as he's supposed to. We both know the judge penalized mom and boy putting them under house arrest. We both know the boy is guilty based on a lot of evidence. It was not possible for anyone else in a 3 minute time span to do it. He killed his dad and tricked Tim into coming towards the house. We know Mom and the Romeros know he's guilty. We know they haven't done anything to dispute that. We know the boy got off with murder without any punishment. And posting on this board makes no more sense until sentencing. Now the mutual I love each other posters, and disregard and distort the facts club can post whatever they want and try to talk themselves into believing whatever they want, but that won't change the truth.

[VictimHelp]

And he didnt call to confirm befor he filed not very smart...IMO I get what you are saying ''ALL PARTIES'' I would think that was the probation dept. ect. Not his mother and especially CR

I respectfully say you're wrong.

[PHXMOTHER]

I agree Linda...bunch of degenerates.



No need for the personal attacks... Thank you:rolleyes:

[dgfred]

Frankly, I am tired and bored with the entire discussion. I am not going to change my position. I'm tired of the rude comments and personal attacks.

I'll be back, after the next hearing, when there is actually something new to discuss.

Have at it!:seeya:

Well, that figures. Bye.

[dgfred]

GB, so much crap piled high from the mutual I love each other posters. You and I both know the DA is doing his job as he's supposed to. We both know the judge penalized mom and boy putting them under house arrest. We both know the boy is guilty based on a lot of evidence. It was not possible for anyone else in a 3 minute time span to do it. He killed his dad and tricked Tim into coming towards the house. We know Mom and the Romeros know he's guilty. We know they haven't done anything to dispute that. We know the boy got off with murder without any punishment. And posting on this board makes no more sense until sentencing. Now the mutual I love each other posters, and disregard and distort the facts club can post whatever they want and try to talk themselves into believing whatever they want, but that won't change the truth.

Ouch, that stings. I don't recall the 'I love each other posters' the ones that have been talking to themselves... seems more like the bash sisters have been doing that for quite awhile... but not as much since this blatently deceptive filing was shown to be a farse. Kind of backfired it looks like.

[sdn8tv]

I have tried to find any media article that states this. Do you know which reporters said this?

This one which is in other articles as well does not say that.

During the hearing, [B]Judge Michael Roca asked all parties to do a better job sharing information to avoid miscommunication.

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/other/story/State-withdraws-request-to-put-9-year-old-back-in/VZhOJvsP506EraIgOIrRRQ.cspx

Heard it with my own ears...I was there.

[sdn8tv]

I agree Linda...bunch of degenerates.

You mean the stuff new today didn't support your position so now you're bored...

[sdn8tv]

Oh I don't think that at all. If that were true he would not have said "Judge Michael Roca asked all parties to do a better job sharing information to avoid miscommunication."

Whiting is not "all parties", in fact since the probation officer was there I think they may be the one that dropped the ball and did not keep records and failed to notify as they should have.

From what I remember it is always the DAs office that must be kept abreast of every bit of the changing information on a defendant who is out on furlough awaiting sentencing. IMO, the probation officer flubbed up and did not do their job leading to misinformation being drawn from their ineptness to notify the proper parties to share the information.

imo

How on earth did the PO flubb this up. He granted the travel permit. Whiting got chewed out because he didn't share all of his filings with all four parties involved. It had nothing to do with the Probation department. THe PO is at every hearing and he comes to visit CR EVERY DAY at his home.

[sdn8tv]

GB, so much crap piled high from the mutual I love each other posters. You and I both know the DA is doing his job as he's supposed to. We both know the judge penalized mom and boy putting them under house arrest. We both know the boy is guilty based on a lot of evidence. It was not possible for anyone else in a 3 minute time span to do it. He killed his dad and tricked Tim into coming towards the house. We know Mom and the Romeros know he's guilty. We know they haven't done anything to dispute that. We know the boy got off with murder without any punishment. And posting on this board makes no more sense until sentencing. Now the mutual I love each other posters, and disregard and distort the facts club can post whatever they want and try to talk themselves into believing whatever they want, but that won't change the truth.

The judge penalized the mom and CR by putting "them" on house arrest. Exactly what crime did Eryn commit?
House Arrest and Furlough are the same thing. Nothing has changed except now they have a set of rules. You can't change the rules midstream and not tell everyone involved of the new rules.

[VictimHelp]

How on earth did the PO flubb this up. He granted the travel permit. Whiting got chewed out because he didn't share all of his filings with all four parties involved. It had nothing to do with the Probation department. THe PO is at every hearing and he comes to visit CR EVERY DAY at his home.

Wrong about Whiting...

[VictimHelp]

The judge penalized the mom and CR by putting "them" on house arrest. Exactly what crime did Eryn commit?
House Arrest and Furlough are the same thing. Nothing has changed except now they have a set of rules. You can't change the rules midstream and not tell everyone involved of the new rules.

House arrest is house arrest.