The Obama Haters’ Silent Enablers

[daniel green]

The question, Shepard Smith said on Fox last week, is “if there is really a way to put a hold on” those who might run amok. We’re not about to repeal the First or Second Amendments. Hard-core haters resolutely dismiss any “mainstream media” debunking of their conspiracy theories. The only voices that might penetrate their alternative reality — I emphasize might — belong to conservative leaders with the guts and clout to step up as McCain did last fall. Where are they? The genteel public debate in right-leaning intellectual circles about the conservative movement’s future will be buried by history if these insistent alarms are met with silence...No matter. Last week it was business as usual, as Republican leaders nattered ad infinitum over the juvenile rivalry of Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich at the party’s big Washington fund-raiser. Few if any mentioned, let alone questioned, the ominous script delivered by the actor Jon Voight with the G.O.P. imprimatur at that same event. Voight’s devout wish was to “bring an end to this false prophet Obama.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/opinion/14rich.html?_r=2

Excellent piece by Frank Rich.

[Brat2002]

I am soooo tired of people being accused of hate or racism just because they happen to disagree with something BO does. If anyone doesn't toe the line, they are impugned.

Did people who disagreed with any other president get called a "hater"?

[theal3]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/opinion/14rich.html?_r=2

Excellent piece by Frank Rich.

Yes, he's a very credible journalist. All I hear from the Right talkers is: socialism, everything is failing, and failure is all that will happen, fear of government, fear of SS in 2035, and re-written history like: Barack let Fannie May Fail, when it happened under Bush, and Barack cause all this, and then the constant Newt and Sarah news, and now Liz Cheney is everywhere, too. It's very strange. It's like reading a tabloid from the supermarket. And the terrible MSM. These folks don't seem to like America, IMHO. What I don't hear are solutions, or them working together to help solve problems. It ALWAYS has to be a negative.

[daniel green]

Theal--I think Rich is right that GOPers need to step up and ratch down this hate/violence rhetoric.

The "joke" Limbaugh told about bullets and Pelosi is truly horrific.

[LisaM22]

The odd thing is, the rhetoric doesn't work. Didn't before, didn't during the election, and doesn't now. Yet, the right continues to ratchet it up.....Makes one wonder.......:confused:

I think they believe that if you keep repeating a lie often enough, eventually people will believe it, think they need to read about the little boy who cried wolf

[vonna]

The conservative hate has been around for a long time.....When they were in control for the last 8 agonizing years, it manifested itself as 'if you disagree with us, you're not patriotic, you're un-American, you're a traitor'. Kinda like the old cry, when they told Americans who disagreed with them, 'you're a communist'.

The non-liberals love to hate. That does not change - only the words they use to describe the other side does.

[Lady_Jean_La]

I am soooo tired of people being accused of hate or racism just because they happen to disagree with something BO does. If anyone doesn't toe the line, they are impugned.

Did people who disagreed with any other president get called a "hater"?
It is a good strategy when one can't debate the issues. imo

[YoYo]

I am of the opinion that President Obama would not approve if he knew how much "hate" his supporters are instigating here and how much wider they are making the gap between Dems, GOP, and those of other groups instead of working toward unity. Flies/honey and all of that. MO

[rowstreeter]

I really like Frank Rich, and kudo's to Shepard Smith at Fox News for speaking out frankly.

eally, I don't understand someone salivating at the sound of Bill O'Reilly's voice, or calling Bill a hero

[Brat2002]

IMO, that is a liberal myth that has been peddled by the Left to try and justify their radical positions.

The thing is, when a question is asked regarding major issues, like paying for the healthcare plan, cap and trade, etc., we are simply accused of bashing and we get these unfounded and totally unfair insults in lieu of an actual answer. I think it's just a dodging technique. If you don't know the answer or just don't want to give the answer, just make the other person look bad for asking in the first place. I wonder if some just cannot tolerate being questioned at all. The president should be used to some tough Q and A sessions by now, as most presidents have been in the past.

[ortiga]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/opinion/14rich.html?_r=2

Excellent piece by Frank Rich.

Thanks for that link. It's as though we've become desensitized. What would a person have to say these days, other than what Jon Voight said other than the 29 times BOR called Tiller a killer or similar? I mean at what point do the moderate republicans say "enough, simply enough"?

[ortiga]

BOR and JV speak the truth, IMO. Once again, you are obsessing about their language, versus the merits of their arguements.


Those who continually use that label "obsessing" for others here on the board..........reveal a lot about themselves. As, those that speak in those terms usually think in those terms too, IMO.

In the case of BOR, Jon Voigt, Palin, Limbaugh....their language skills, or lack there of, leave nothing to be guessed about their arguments.

IMO

[Lady_Jean_La]

Well said, the right has used it for a shield for years:sad:
It's is popular when you are in and used against the out party. Nothing changes. imo

[ABC]

Those who continually use that label "obsessing" for others here on the board..........reveal a lot about themselves. As, those that speak in those terms usually think in those terms too, IMO.

In the case of BOR, Jon Voigt, Palin, Limbaugh....their language skills, or lack there of, leave nothing to be guessed about their arguments.

IMO

Voight, Limbaugh and the Governor don't have an UMM, UHHH or YOU KNOW between them.

[daniel green]

I really like Frank Rich, and kudo's to Shepard Smith at Fox News for speaking out frankly.

snipped

I see that the RW is all to pieces about Smith and want him fired.

Unreal, huh?

[daniel green]

Thanks for that link. It's as though we've become desensitized. What would a person have to say these days, other than what Jon Voight said other than the 29 times BOR called Tiller a killer or similar? I mean at what point do the moderate republicans say "enough, simply enough"?


I think it is desensitization. But, really, the stuff being said is crazy, and it's been followed by 5 murders?

Rich pegged it right, I think, by saying that it is Republicans who have got to get these folks to stop talking like this. Or saying they don't speak for them.

[daniel green]

In reading this thread I find, yet again, a total lack of understanding of the difference between "bashing" (which seems to be a very elastic term here) and talk of violence and inciting violence.

[Susan43]

I am soooo tired of people being accused of hate or racism just because they happen to disagree with something BO does. If anyone doesn't toe the line, they are impugned.

Did people who disagreed with any other president get called a "hater"?

I'm curious about something. Why would you take this personally? We know that not every conservative is a RW fanatic, and some of us find that talk a little scary. There really are real conservatives that are saying the same thing about ratcheting down the violence talk.

Lately we liberals have been called socialists, communists, fascists among other things. I know they don't apply to me since I am none of those things.

Can you really say that there isn't a lot of violent rhetoric speech lately?

[YoYo]

I see that the RW is all to pieces about Smith and want him fired.

Unreal, huh?

Other than Rush and a couple of blogs, I haven't heard a hue and cry from anyone.

[daniel green]

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/12/741721/-Fox-News-Viewers:-Fire-the-Messenger-(Shep-Smith)

List of who/what is asking for Smith's firing.

[rowstreeter]

I see that the RW is all to pieces about Smith and want him fired.

Unreal, huh?

IMO Shepard Smith showed real journalistic credentials during Katrina on Fox, I watched him then, and loved it. I think he is the ONLY person with enough credibility, honesty, candor, and true patriotism on that news channel.

[Susan43]

In reading this thread I find, yet again, a total lack of understanding of the difference between "bashing" (which seems to be a very elastic term here) and talk of violence and inciting violence.

I really do find it puzzling. There are actually RW blogs calling for Shepard Smith to leave his job for talking about the violent emails he receives. I just find that goofy.

I watched Mike Murphy and Joe Scarborough today on MTP. Two smart conservatives that are also speaking up about the violent rhetoric. If the party starts listening to men like these they wouldn't be as deep in the weeds as they are.

Maybe I'm the nutty one, but personally I don't think it would hurt the conservative movement at all among most people if they made an effort to tone down the violent talk. I'd be willing to bet that more people are turned off by it, then turned on. But :shrug:

[YoYo]

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/12/741721/-Fox-News-Viewers:-Fire-the-Messenger-(Shep-Smith)

List of who/what is asking for Smith's firing.

Mostly blogs............

[ridrea]

Those who continually use that label "obsessing" for others here on the board..........reveal a lot about themselves. As, those that speak in those terms usually think in those terms too, IMO.

In the case of BOR, Jon Voigt, Palin, Limbaugh....their language skills, or lack there of, leave nothing to be guessed about their arguments.

IMO

Condescending remarks about others reveals a lot as well!

[rowstreeter]

Mostly blogs............

Do you find Shepard Smith a most reasonable and honest anchor? I do, just wondering about you.

[Susan43]

Mostly blogs............

Well, where do you think that most of the violent rhetoric is posted? The NYT's?

[YoYo]

I see that the RW is all to pieces about Smith and want him fired.

Unreal, huh?

Susan, you might want to read what began my input here.

The RW is all to pieces? I don't think these people make up the entire RW..........

[PoppySeeds]

I see that the RW is all to pieces about Smith and want him fired.

Unreal, huh?


I like him. I really like the way he doesn't let personal political feelings color his journalistic skills.

[Susan43]

Susan, you might want to read what began my input here.

The RW is all to pieces? I don't think these people make up the entire RW..........

I agree with you that the blogs don't make up the entire RW. But where else should we be getting our information on the right? I certainly don't believe everything I read on RW blogs, but dang, some of them really do seem to encourage conspiracy theories, exclusion and violence. And although there are people like Mike Murphy and Christopher Buckley trying to speak out, there are a very large percentage of the right trying to shut them up.

Did you know there is a Baptist minister praying for Obama to die? Don't you think that's just nutty? Unamerican and nutty. I've tried not to be mean about this, but we need to somehow ratchet down the rhetoric before we really have a disaster caused by some fanatic that listens to the hate talk.

[YoYo]

<snip>

Did you know there is a Baptist minister praying for Obama to die? Don't you think that's just nutty? Unamerican and nutty. I've tried not to be mean about this, but we need to somehow ratchet down the rhetoric before we really have a disaster caused by some fanatic that listens to the hate talk.

There are nut cases out there and yes, I agree that we need to tone down the rhetoric, but at the same time I think people need to stop assuming that everyone on the "other" side agrees with everything that is written or said.

[MercedesV]

There was a time when intellectual honesty was not considered unpatriotic; when compassion for, and understanding of, your fellow man was a sign of strength, not weakness. There was a time when the phrase Have you no shame? meant something, and the First Amendment was not used as toilet paper to wipe up the excremental verbal degradation of vulnerable segments of the American population. A time when it was expected that citizens would understand the difference between free speech and irresponsible speech. Somewhere along the line, a cancerous segment of American popular culture and media cunningly metastasized themselves to the long-standing, honorable American "cowboy" motif and mentality, and recast it in their own image. They grafted cruelty, divisiveness, and ignorance to it, making the two appear indistinguishable, and natural allies. And they are neither, or at least ought not to be.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-rowe/the-holocaust-museum-shoo_b_214133.html

I hope people will take a moment and read the above linked piece I quoted. I think it says what a lot of people are thinking. And the above quoted paragraph sums it up well.

It's long past time for us to remember the difference between free speech and irresponsible speech. And to remember to stand up and fight against it whoever the speaker, whatever the political leaning.

[daniel green]

http://mediamatters.org/columns/200906120037

[YoYo]

There was a time when intellectual honesty was not considered unpatriotic; when compassion for, and understanding of, your fellow man was a sign of strength, not weakness. There was a time when the phrase Have you no shame? meant something, and the First Amendment was not used as toilet paper to wipe up the excremental verbal degradation of vulnerable segments of the American population. A time when it was expected that citizens would understand the difference between free speech and irresponsible speech. Somewhere along the line, a cancerous segment of American popular culture and media cunningly metastasized themselves to the long-standing, honorable American "cowboy" motif and mentality, and recast it in their own image. They grafted cruelty, divisiveness, and ignorance to it, making the two appear indistinguishable, and natural allies. And they are neither, or at least ought not to be.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-rowe/the-holocaust-museum-shoo_b_214133.html

I hope people will take a moment and read the above linked piece I quoted. I think it says what a lot of people are thinking. And the above quoted paragraph sums it up well.

It's long past time for us to remember the difference between free speech and irresponsible speech. And to remember to stand up and fight against it whoever the speaker, whatever the political leaning.

You have always tried to be a diplomat. Thanks.

[rowstreeter]

...

Did you know there is a Baptist minister praying for Obama to die? Don't you think that's just nutty? Unamerican and nutty. I've tried not to be mean about this, but we need to somehow ratchet down the rhetoric before we really have a disaster caused by some fanatic that listens to the hate talk.

I saw that interview, with someone who CLAIMS to be a man of the cloth. I think people like that are just one step away from the shooter in the Hollacost Museum.


I hope the FBI is watching this man and his followers. I hope he trades his church for a jail cell soon.

[daniel green]

snipped

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-rowe/the-holocaust-museum-shoo_b_214133.html

.

EXCELLENT piece, Mercedes, thx for posting it.

As a group, they are the pop culture equivalent of necrotic carrion beetles, crawling with insectile determination from one infected open wound in the American psyche to another. The wounds include fear of race, fear of foreigners, fear of sexuality, fear of difference, hysterical religious fundamentalism, violent nationalism, and paranoia. They lay their eggs in the infected abrasion, then scuttle away. When the eggs hatch, disgorging rage and discontent, they start counting money.

That's exactly right. Excellent description.

[MercedesV]

You have always tried to be a diplomat. Thanks.

And thank you for your kind words. Maybe if all of us stopped encouraging this offensive kind of discourse it would ease up. If ratings or book sales dropped it couldn't be claimed that they were giving the people what they want. Or somehow that makes it acceptable. The public has to take responsibility for encouraging this kind of media behaviour.

And when something is wrong, it is plain wrong no matter who is doing it I believe.

[LisaM22]

There are nut cases out there and yes, I agree that we need to tone down the rhetoric, but at the same time I think people need to stop assuming that everyone on the "other" side agrees with everything that is written or said.

it would help if people were not defending it, say something, stand up and let it be known when you disagree with your party, I do, everyone should, don't stay silent just cause you support the fanatics views