June 6, 7

[adair]

[QUOTE=adair;13175460][QUOTE=Sus2;13175212]

She had a very expensive plan. Her phone bills were between $300-$500. {shakes head}


I would like to see the records of how she paid, or didn't pay....money order etc, stolen check.........Which makes me wonder again about oc using zfg as an alias.....or has she used Cindy's name/ss for the account information. I wonder if oc could have a post office box.

It would be cheaper, well for most NORMAL families (choke, cough, choke) to put kc on with their cell plan, but then I forgot that kc's job was paying for her phone, and they were gonna reimburse her.........(banging head against the wall)!!!!!!

[Amy]

Does anyone know if Cindy is still seeing a therapist and if so can the state subpoena her file? No one can hold this pain inside. Their has to be someone that George or Cindy have told their suspicions to. Image the nightmare these people have when they close their eyes. You can fool yourself when your awake but you can't fool your dreams.

I don't know if they could subpeona the therapy records of someone other than the defendant. I can't see Cindy (from all that we have seen of and heard from her) telling a therapist ANYTHING that would implicate her Casey, anyway. IMO

[Sun]

Found this in a search for Andrea Lyon cases in Florida

http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/briefs/2003/3mer/1ami/2003-0931.mer.ami.pdf

On page 13 + 14
In light of that focus, a basic rule of representation in
capital cases is to avoid taking a position in the guilt phase
that could compromise arguments for leniency in the sentencing
phase. “Ideally, the theory of the trial must complement,
support, and lay the groundwork for the theory of mitigation. Consistency is crucial because * * * counsel
risks losing credibility by making an unconvincing argument
in the first phase that the defendant did not commit the
crime, then attempting to show in the penalty phase why the
client committed the crime.” ABA Death Penalty Guidelines
10.11 cmt. (31 Hofstra L. Rev. at 1059) (internal quotation
marks and footnote omitted); see id. at 10.10.1 cmt. (31
Hofstra L. Rev. at 1047-1048); Scott E. Sundby, The Capital
Jury and Absolution: The Intersection of Trial Strategy,
Remorse, and the Death Penalty, 83 Cornell L. Rev. 1557,
1558-1559 (1998); Streib, supra, at 409; White, supra, at 356-
358; Goodpaster, supra, at 329. In the words of one attorney,
“[i]t is not good to put on a ‘he didn’t do it’ defense and a
‘he is sorry he did it’ mitigation. This just does not work.
The jury will give the death penalty to the client and, in
essence, the attorney.” Andrea D. Lyon, Defending the
Death Penalty Case: What Makes Death Different?, 42
Mercer L. Rev. 695, 708 (1991); see Lingar, 176 F.3d at 459.

bolding by me. If these are her words to a defense of a DP case then JB is going to have to follow. imo If I am reading this wrong please let me know. TIA

Thanks for finding and posting this. In the post-court hearing interview last month, both Baez and Lyon stated that Casey was "innocent." (chuckles... does Lyon realize that Baez has already lost all credibility with the media and the public?)

[CelticDawn]

Does anyone know if Cindy is still seeing a therapist and if so can the state subpoena her file? No one can hold this pain inside. Their has to be someone that George or Cindy have told their suspicions to. Image the nightmare these people have when they close their eyes. You can fool yourself when your awake but you can't fool your dreams.

Confidentiality would be a major factor in anything there....Also, for the prosecution to want to go there, they would have to be looking for something that indicated foreknowledge and knowledge DIRECTLY of the crime....IMO....

[adair]

And, even if I were on the outs w/my Mom, if I couldn't find one of my kids, I would certainly be calling her, OMG, I can't find my baby nor the babysitter!!!! And, if I hadn't already tho't of calling hospitals and police and such, my Mom would probably direct me to start that up. Tell me to get home right away and we'd start calling. Abduction of my baby whilst in the care of the nanny whom I trusted for so long, and where there was nothing prior that would make me think she would up and take off with my baby would NEVER cross my mind!!!

Of course, she then changed to the abduction in the park, where OBVIOUSLY it was an abduction w/threats and all that. So, of course, no calls to check on accidents and such.

I just don't see where the defense can get around the first story. And, then, to try to call in the SECOND story--nope, they are falling in a deep well on that. There is absolutely nothing about either story that would hold water, IMO.


I wonder if there is a camera at that park.......wouldn't that be interesting. With all of the SO I think that a park would be a good place for a camera for the safety of all children. I have no idea how large that park is.....I am sure that it would be a difficult task. jmo

[Pam1569]

Thanks for finding and posting this. In the post-court hearing interview last month, both Baez and Lyon stated that Casey was "innocent." (chuckles... does Lyon realize that Baez has already lost all credibility with the media and the public?)

Sun, I bet since she hadn't even looked at the discovery documents yet and was basing her statement on JB's word. Which is going to floor her once she does read the discovery. I wonder if she ever thought that this case might undue all of her credibility. jmo

[Amy]

Found this in a search for Andrea Lyon cases in Florida

http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/briefs/2003/3mer/1ami/2003-0931.mer.ami.pdf

On page 13 + 14
In light of that focus, a basic rule of representation in
capital cases is to avoid taking a position in the guilt phase
that could compromise arguments for leniency in the sentencing
phase. “Ideally, the theory of the trial must complement,
support, and lay the groundwork for the theory of mitigation. Consistency is crucial because * * * counsel
risks losing credibility by making an unconvincing argument
in the first phase that the defendant did not commit the
crime, then attempting to show in the penalty phase why the
client committed the crime.” ABA Death Penalty Guidelines
10.11 cmt. (31 Hofstra L. Rev. at 1059) (internal quotation
marks and footnote omitted); see id. at 10.10.1 cmt. (31
Hofstra L. Rev. at 1047-1048); Scott E. Sundby, The Capital
Jury and Absolution: The Intersection of Trial Strategy,
Remorse, and the Death Penalty, 83 Cornell L. Rev. 1557,
1558-1559 (1998); Streib, supra, at 409; White, supra, at 356-
358; Goodpaster, supra, at 329. In the words of one attorney,
“[i]t is not good to put on a ‘he didn’t do it’ defense and a
‘he is sorry he did it’ mitigation. This just does not work.
The jury will give the death penalty to the client and, in
essence, the attorney.” Andrea D. Lyon, Defending the
Death Penalty Case: What Makes Death Different?, 42
Mercer L. Rev. 695, 708 (1991); see Lingar, 176 F.3d at 459.

bolding by me. If these are her words to a defense of a DP case then JB is going to have to follow. imo If I am reading this wrong please let me know. TIA

So, since AL says "the client is innocent" (before reading up on the case!!!!) we can assume that she is going to go for "She didn't do it" defense first of all. What happens then, when defense loses and Casey is convicted? By her words, whatever they try for mitigating circumstances to get the sentencing to be less than the DP, their case is already cooked.

Seems the only way to get around this would be a plea bargain to get LWOP instead of going thru trial and possibly getting the DP. I just can't see that a supposedly (by all accounts, by all reviews, etc etc) intelligent person would have started out with such an outlandish statement about being innocent but not knowing the case. That is just so.....stupid, IMO. I would have more respect for her if she had just said, she was new to the case, had a lot to read up on, and then, as she commenced to say later--I will not be giving information to the press, all that needs to be known will plainly be in the motions I present in court. You WILL KNOW by the motions exactly where I am going, what I am doing.

IMO

[Lapis]

Confidentiality would be a major factor in anything there....Also, for the prosecution to want to go there, they would have to be looking for something that indicated foreknowledge and knowledge DIRECTLY of the crime....IMO....

Under ordinary circumstances, a person's medical records are cannot be released unless the person's health is at issue in the case. For instance in a civil personal injury lawsuit, because the person's medical condition is at issue opposing counsel can obtain the records. In a criminal case, if the the defendant is pleading insanity, the records can be obtained. But, here under these circumstances, I cannot see the records being released. JMO

[Pam1569]

So, since AL says "the client is innocent" (before reading up on the case!!!!) we can assume that she is going to go for "She didn't do it" defense first of all. What happens then, when defense loses and Casey is convicted? By her words, whatever they try for mitigating circumstances to get the sentencing to be less than the DP, their case is already cooked.

Seems the only way to get around this would be a plea bargain to get LWOP instead of going thru trial and possibly getting the DP. I just can't see that a supposedly (by all accounts, by all reviews, etc etc) intelligent person would have started out with such an outlandish statement about being innocent but not knowing the case. That is just so.....stupid, IMO. I would have more respect for her if she had just said, she was new to the case, had a lot to read up on, and then, as she commenced to say later--I will not be giving information to the press, all that needs to be known will plainly be in the motions I present in court. You WILL KNOW by the motions exactly where I am going, what I am doing.

IMO

Ditto Amy with what I bolded. I think that she being a DPQ lawyer she should have gone this route and not the route JB had told her before she even learned the discovery.

[CelticDawn]

Celtic,
I think this should explain it.


http://www.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/doctor-patient-confidentiality

thank You.

[Kathlb]

Found this in a search for Andrea Lyon cases in Florida

http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/briefs/2003/3mer/1ami/2003-0931.mer.ami.pdf

On page 13 + 14
In light of that focus, a basic rule of representation in
capital cases is to avoid taking a position in the guilt phase
that could compromise arguments for leniency in the sentencing
phase. “Ideally, the theory of the trial must complement,
support, and lay the groundwork for the theory of mitigation. Consistency is crucial because * * * counsel
risks losing credibility by making an unconvincing argument
in the first phase that the defendant did not commit the
crime, then attempting to show in the penalty phase why the
client committed the crime.” ABA Death Penalty Guidelines
10.11 cmt. (31 Hofstra L. Rev. at 1059) (internal quotation
marks and footnote omitted); see id. at 10.10.1 cmt. (31
Hofstra L. Rev. at 1047-1048); Scott E. Sundby, The Capital
Jury and Absolution: The Intersection of Trial Strategy,
Remorse, and the Death Penalty, 83 Cornell L. Rev. 1557,
1558-1559 (1998); Streib, supra, at 409; White, supra, at 356-
358; Goodpaster, supra, at 329. In the words of one attorney,
“[i]t is not good to put on a ‘he didn’t do it’ defense and a
‘he is sorry he did it’ mitigation. This just does not work.
The jury will give the death penalty to the client and, in
essence, the attorney.” Andrea D. Lyon, Defending the
Death Penalty Case: What Makes Death Different?, 42
Mercer L. Rev. 695, 708 (1991); see Lingar, 176 F.3d at 459.

bolding by me. If these are her words to a defense of a DP case then JB is going to have to follow. imo If I am reading this wrong please let me know. TIA

You know, I've been wondering this off and on since Lyons' came on the case because of the death penalty. How can they put out the defense that Casey had nothing to do with it but x,y and z did have the opportunity and the motive to do it, and then in the dp phase say, well she did do it but she doesn't deserve the death penalty. I haven't followed trials as long as most of you so I'm not sure how this is dealt with. Any insights to share from cases you've followed where the death penalty was on the table and how they handled it?

Oops, I see Amy already asked. :-)

[Sun]

Sun, I bet since she hadn't even looked at the discovery documents yet and was basing her statement on JB's word. Which is going to floor her once she does read the discovery. I wonder if she ever thought that this case might undue all of her credibility. jmo

I think that Casey is sticking with the "I did NOT COMMIT this crime" much like she wrote in one of those affidavits that she has signed. I think that Casey is telling her attornerys that she isn't responsible for Caylee's death.

Not quite sure how well this will work for Casey, when a jury does find her guilty. However, what is said in the media and what actually is said in the courtroom can be different. Waiting for the trial to start is becoming difficult for me.

[Dick Tracy]

Bolding mine, after this much time of listening to how the OC communicates, I wonder if talking in code is the norm for her and if so, in her mind she was thinking she was giving information to then but no one knows how to talk to her. I listen to jailhouse tapes of conversation between OC and Lee and the entire thing is code talking.

I read a transcript of a phone call from between Lee and the OC. He ask her a question, and she gives what appears to be a just a answer filled with double talk.

Lee answers: Perfect.............

[sammy62]

Cindy just can't stand to be wrong, or for Rick to point out that she is wrong. And, Cindy will lie, lie, lie, before she will let anyone say that she is wrong about anything. JMO

and the minute she is losing a battle...she pulls the "grieving grandma" scenerio. gag me.

[Unleashed]

Does anyone know if Cindy is still seeing a therapist and if so can the state subpoena her file? No one can hold this pain inside. Their has to be someone that George or Cindy have told their suspicions to. Image the nightmare these people have when they close their eyes. You can fool yourself when your awake but you can't fool your dreams.


IIRC, CA stated in one of her emails that she was seeing someone. With that statement, it is probably safe to assume she is not. :glare:

JMO

[Pam1569]

I think that Casey is sticking with the "I did NOT COMMIT this crime" much like she wrote in one of those affidavits that she has signed. I think that Casey is telling her attornerys that she isn't responsible for Caylee's death.

Not quite sure how well this will work for Casey, when a jury does find her guilty. However, what is said in the media and what actually is said in the courtroom can be different. Waiting for the trial to start is becoming difficult for me.

Sun, I agree that the waiting is awful. But I do think that Burdick will represent the case very well showing all the evidence they had before and after the GJ indictment and that Lyons is going to have a difficult time handling a guilty verdict and then try at the penalty phase to get any jury to believe OC is not deserving of death. I do believe Lyons would be better off trying to talk OC into admitting what she has done and trying to ask the state for a plea down to LWOP. If she cannot talk OC into this you might see her walk just as Lenamon did. jmo

[Tornado]

I read a transcript of a phone call from between Lee and the OC. He ask her a question, and she gives what appears to be a just a answer filled with double talk.

Lee answers: Perfect.............

Honestly their code talk is crafted. This is not something that they would be able to come up with in a short amount of time. I just wonder if everything that she has told anybody about Caylee or any conversation that she has ever had with anyone is nothing more than code talk and she doesn't know how to not talk like this. To an unknowing person, it appears to be sentences that just dance around a question or statment, to her she is communicating the only way she knows how. It is scary none the less.

[Explorer]

just like in the scott peterson case gregoros told the jury that he was going to prove someone else did it and when he fell short he lost credibility with the jury.

[haveaniceday]

[QUOTE=Kathlb;13175615]You know, I've been wondering this off and on since Lyons' came on the case because of the death penalty. How can they put out the defense that Casey had nothing to do with it but x,y and z did have the opportunity and the motive to do it, and then in the dp phase say, well she did do it but she doesn't deserve the death penalty.

AL stated that she wants the DP off the table BEFORE they go to trial.
If that is done, then they can proceed with the defense that someone else did it. Also the juror won't be as harsh

[Sun]

and the minute she is losing a battle...she pulls the "grieving grandma" scenerio. gag me.

LOL... George has this perfected. Oh poor me.

[kOOkie1]

June 7, 2008
(Ricardo Morales Interview 7/25/08)

EE: She comes over to your house that morning though? Uh, Saturday morning, the 7th?

RM: No that, that's p.m. when I saw her on Saturday.
EE: Oh, p.m.?
RM: 11:00 p.m.
EE: Saturday the 7th?
RM: Yeah (affirmative).
EE: Uh, Casey and Caylee?
RM: Yes.
EE: And they stay at your house?
RM: Uh-hum (affirmative).
EE: Through the morning of the 8th?
RM: Yes.
EE: What time do they leave on the 8th?
RM: I would say late morning.
DR: Okay.
EE: Excuse me.
DR: They leave late morning?
(Corporal Edwards exits the room.)
RM: Yes.
....Casey sure wasted no time between Ricardo and TonE, did she?? Weird that she showed up with Caylee at 11 pm. or maybe it's just me:huh:

[Dick Tracy]

Honestly their code talk is crafted. This is not something that they would be able to come up with in a short amount of time. I just wonder if everything that she has told anybody about Caylee or any conversation that she has ever had with anyone is nothing more than code talk and she doesn't know how to not talk like this. To an unknowing person, it appears to be sentences that just dance around a question or statment, to her she is communicating the only way she knows how. It is scary none the less.

Code talk I'm not sure of. Casey seemed to double talk to the police and investigators that same way as well.

Lee: Perfect. That would be -- I would encourage that 110 percent. So, um, is there anything specific? I know you're going to meet with -- um, you know, the investigators and everything, but you know, is there anything, specifically the details, that you want to clarify to me now, so when I'm following up on my own leads and my own information -- putting this stuff together -- you know, that I can start working on it now?

Casey: Um, at the moment there's nothing specific or nothing that, you know, should probably be said here. Um, again, I'll put something together before I see Jose, or when I see Jose, and, you know, make sure I have something also to put out.

Lee: Right.

Casey: So that we can get everything.

Lee: OK, and just remember: When you get to talk to those guys -- um, you know, you mention that, you know, you're going to have your prep and everything with Jose.

Casey: Mmhmm.

Lee: But remember: Truth don't hurt.

Casey: Oh, I know it doesn't.

================================

Casey: I'm, again, everybody's biggest resource. You've said that. Jose has said that. Mom and Dad have said that.***


***Casey has a need to feel important in this case. Unfortunately, the truth did not come out, so she was not a resource. She just reassures herself in this stupid statement.

[Dick Tracy]

June 7, 2008
(Ricardo Morales Interview 7/25/08)

EE: She comes over to your house that morning though? Uh, Saturday morning, the 7th?

RM: No that, that's p.m. when I saw her on Saturday.
EE: Oh, p.m.?
RM: 11:00 p.m.
EE: Saturday the 7th?
RM: Yeah (affirmative).
EE: Uh, Casey and Caylee?
RM: Yes.
EE: And they stay at your house?
RM: Uh-hum (affirmative).
EE: Through the morning of the 8th?
RM: Yes.
EE: What time do they leave on the 8th?
RM: I would say late morning.
DR: Okay.
EE: Excuse me.
DR: They leave late morning?
(Corporal Edwards exits the room.)
RM: Yes.
....Casey sure wasted no time between Ricardo and TonE, did she?? Weird that she showed up with Caylee at 11 pm. or maybe it's just me:huh:

She might have left TL's with Caylee, and head over to RM's, telling TL that she's headed home.

[Kathlb]

[QUOTE=Kathlb;13175615]You know, I've been wondering this off and on since Lyons' came on the case because of the death penalty. How can they put out the defense that Casey had nothing to do with it but x,y and z did have the opportunity and the motive to do it, and then in the dp phase say, well she did do it but she doesn't deserve the death penalty.

AL stated that she wants the DP off the table BEFORE they go to trial.
If that is done, then they can proceed with the defense that someone else did it. Also the juror won't be as harsh

Thanks, but I was thinking if the jury convicts her and the dp is still on, how do they justify it in the penalty phase? How can they turn it around and admit she did it but doesn't deserve death?

[Sun]

Sun, I agree that the waiting is awful. But I do think that Burdick will represent the case very well showing all the evidence they had before and after the GJ indictment and that Lyons is going to have a difficult time handling a guilty verdict and then try at the penalty phase to get any jury to believe OC is not deserving of death. I do believe Lyons would be better off trying to talk OC into admitting what she has done and trying to ask the state for a plea down to LWOP. If she cannot talk OC into this you might see her walk just as Lenamon did. jmo

I just don't see Casey admitting to anything, so I can't ever see her even asking for a plea. I believe that in Casey's warped mind, she believes that she will have no problems getting at least some of the jury to vote not guilty on all the charges against her. Casey has a habit of thinking that everyone should believe her lies/stories.

[Sun]

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3581916879/m/48019429001

I didn't know that both Kasen and Baez had worked together on a murder case of a child. But this article says that they did.

[kOOkie1]

She might have left TL's with Caylee, and head over to RM's, telling TL that she's headed home.

Thats true..
I think according to RM they had broke up in mid April,but continued to have a sexual relationship up until June 9th or 10th. Does anyone off hand remember when she met or starting dating TonE???
She's a piece of work that one!

[Pam1569]

I just don't see Casey admitting to anything, so I can't ever see her even asking for a plea. I believe that in Casey's warped mind, she believes that she will have no problems getting at least some of the jury to vote not guilty on all the charges against her. Casey has a habit of thinking that everyone should believe her lies/stories.

Sun, If this is the case and she doesn't take Lyon's advice on how this should proceed for her own benefit then she (OC) is going to get the surprise of her life with a guilty verdict is read and then Lyon's is going to try her best to get the DP off the table (if Lyon's doesn't walk before the guilty phase even takes place), but imo it will be then at that time the DP jury will be non favorable to her and just may give her what she never thought was possible. jmo

[Tornado]

Code talk I'm not sure of. Casey seemed to double talk to the police and investigators that same way as well.

Lee: Perfect. That would be -- I would encourage that 110 percent. So, um, is there anything specific? I know you're going to meet with -- um, you know, the investigators and everything, but you know, is there anything, specifically the details, that you want to clarify to me now, so when I'm following up on my own leads and my own information -- putting this stuff together -- you know, that I can start working on it now?

Casey: Um, at the moment there's nothing specific or nothing that, you know, should probably be said here. Um, again, I'll put something together before I see Jose, or when I see Jose, and, you know, make sure I have something also to put out.

Lee: Right.

Casey: So that we can get everything.

Lee: OK, and just remember: When you get to talk to those guys -- um, you know, you mention that, you know, you're going to have your prep and everything with Jose.

Casey: Mmhmm.

Lee: But remember: Truth don't hurt.

Casey: Oh, I know it doesn't.

================================

Casey: I'm, again, everybody's biggest resource. You've said that. Jose has said that. Mom and Dad have said that.***


***Casey has a need to feel important in this case. Unfortunately, the truth did not come out, so she was not a resource. She just reassures herself in this stupid statement.

I understand what you are saying but is she doing this intentionally or is this her reality and that she is that mentally off?

[Lapis]

I have stated here before that I am not a DP qualified attorney so I'm not sure that I have any more insight than anyone else.

I do know that it is always difficult to argue cases in the alternative. By that I mean that it is always best to pick a strategy and stick with it. Often times the foundation you lay on one issue can have an effect on another issue. For instance in civil cases, if you may not be able to convince a jury that your client is not responsible, but the defense you have presented may mitigate the damages.

I suppose they could stand up at the penalty phase and say something like "We tried to demonstrate her innocence but we accept your verdict and this is why you should spare her life....." and then present the evidence of mitigation.

JMO

[Katprint]

I have stated here before that I am not a DP qualified attorney so I'm not sure that I have any more insight than anyone else.

I do know that it is always difficult to argue cases in the alternative. By that I mean that it is always best to pick a strategy and stick with it. Often times the foundation you lay on one issue can have an effect on another issue. For instance in civil cases, if you may not be able to convince a jury that your client is not responsible, but the defense you have presented may mitigate the damages.

I suppose they could stand up at the penalty phase and say something like "We tried to demonstrate her innocence but we accept your verdict and this is why you should spare her life....." and then present the evidence of mitigation.

JMO
<bolding mine>
I totally agree. I always thought Mark Geragos should have presented a psychological expert to testify about the phenomenon of men who freak out over the responsibilities of fatherhood, ongoing or impending. I think Scott Peterson might have seemed less like a selfish inhuman monster if there had been some evidence showing how some men are unusually susceptible to this type of psychological stress. Instead there was a parade of witnesses who basically told the jury their guilty verdict was wrong, which IMO firmed up the jury's desire to hold Scott Peterson accountable in the ultimate way.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[farrahrani]

I understand what you are saying but is she doing this intentionally or is this her reality and that she is that mentally off?

No...she NEEDS to feel important. She was given a psychiatric evaluation and found to not be incompetent or whatever the results were, she was aware of her reality.

And all that inane chatter is bs. There is no code. She simply lies and hints at things, and her lies are called 'code'. She may reference things that are familiar only to family, but that's the limit of it. Lies, mistruths, code, all the same thing. And all that chatter is mostly so they can hear their own voices, and sound like they are conferring on something. It's all just babble if you read it. They like to think they are important and that their speech needs to be analyzed. Also, some liars have issues with silence, so they fill it up with as much chatter as possible, not realizing they might be speaking nonsense, repeating themselves, or even contradicting themselves or their alibi, lol.


IMO

[Dick Tracy]

No...she NEEDS to feel important. She was given a psychiatric evaluation and found to not be incompetent or whatever the results were, she was aware of her reality.

And all that inane chatter is bs. There is no code. She simply lies and hints at things, and her lies are called 'code'. She may reference things that are familiar only to family, but that's the limit of it. Lies, mistruths, code, all the same thing. And all that chatter is mostly so they can hear their own voices, and sound like they are conferring on something. It's all just babble if you read it. They like to think they are important and that their speech needs to be analyzed. Also, some liars have issues with silence, so they fill it up with as much chatter as possible, not realizing they might be speaking nonsense, repeating themselves, or even contradicting themselves or their alibi, lol.

IMO

It's just babble if you read it. I couldn't agree more. Did the OC ever give a reason for not taking a polygraph? Anyone know?

[Tornado]

Thats true..
I think according to RM they had broke up in mid April,but continued to have a sexual relationship up until June 9th or 10th. Does anyone off hand remember when she met or starting dating TonE???
She's a piece of work that one!

May 24th is what I am remembering. I will have to go look to be exact.

[court~critic1®]

<bolding mine>
I totally agree. I always thought Mark Geragos should have presented a psychological expert to testify about the phenomenon of men who freak out over the responsibilities of fatherhood, ongoing or impending. I think Scott Peterson might have seemed less like a selfish inhuman monster if there had been some evidence showing how some men are unusually susceptible to this type of psychological stress. Instead there was a parade of witnesses who basically told the jury their guilty verdict was wrong, which IMO firmed up the jury's desire to hold Scott Peterson accountable in the ultimate way.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions



Correct me if I am wrong, please. From what you posted I understand you are saying that if Casey had a psychological phenomenon of being a mother, then she should be forgiven and let off. Or any other killer. I am sure you can find all kinds of phenonmenon in their lives.

That sounds just like the new lawyer she has now. imohoo Casey will not get the dp. She may get life though. It will have nothing to do with the dramtics, or antics of the new lawyer, or LKB.

[need2no]

May 24th is what I am remembering. I will have to go look to be exact.


Yes, that's correct.

MAY 21:

Casey and Tony meet on Facebook

MAY 24:

Tony invites Casey to a birthday party so they can meet in person. She shows up with two friends. Also meets Clint.

[sammy62]

It's just babble if you read it. I couldn't agree more. Did the OC ever give a reason for not taking a polygraph? Anyone know?

You are sooooo funny. She would throw the chart off the wall. All the fuses would blow, and they would be sitting in the dark. :tonguewag:

[seeing_eye]

You are sooooo funny. She would throw the chart off the wall. All the fuses would blow, and they would be sitting in the dark. :tonguewag:

Once Casey invoked her rights to an attorney, she certainly is not going to agree to a polygraph. Besides, what good would it do anyway? The machine would just explode and maybe kill the OC.

I've changed my mind. Maybe it would do some good after all.

[Dick Tracy]

You are sooooo funny. She would throw the chart off the wall. All the fuses would blow, and they would be sitting in the dark. :tonguewag:

Yeah! I wasn't trying to be funny, but it's just my nature in conversation. They'd have to hook that polygraph up to Hoover Dam to get enough power to handle that polygraph.

KING: Hoover Dam? No kidding. Weird.

[Tornado]

Yes, that's correct.

MAY 21:

Casey and Tony meet on Facebook

MAY 24:

Tony invites Casey to a birthday party so they can meet in person. She shows up with two friends. Also meets Clint.

Thank you, it was a toss up between the 24th and the 27th . Trying to clean and blog at the same time. :biggrin:

[Sun]

Yeah! I wasn't trying to be funny, but it's just my nature in conversation. They'd have to hook that polygraph up to Hoover Dam to get enough power to handle that polygraph.

I did see a mention once, where LE/FBI may have conducted a voice stress test on Casey's statements. Or, maybe it was just one of them asking if one had been done.

[Sandy001]

Am I the only one here that can watch the jailhouse videos over and over and over? NG is a repeat of the Ants and the OC at the jail.. I can pick up on so much body language each time. I've read and seen, that when a person is lying, they look to their left a lot. I notice it with OC, and I remember Scott Peterson doing it while being interviewd by Diane Sawyer in his house.A lawyer friend who had to take a class on the direction the eyes take -e.g., what part of memory are they accessing (visual, audio) said left and down means no memory to access. Very interesting because as you said that's EXACTLY where Peterson's eyes went in his interviews.

The only problem I have with KC and the jail video is that I believe the monitor they look at to see the persons they are watching is lower than the camera but I'm not sure. But in every way, KC is deceptive.

[enigma™]

Yeah! I wasn't trying to be funny, but it's just my nature in conversation. They'd have to hook that polygraph up to Hoover Dam to get enough power to handle that polygraph.

KING: Hoover Dam? No kidding. Weird.

Niagara Falls could not sustain the lies charted by a LDT of the "mother of the year". The black-out would paralyze the nation.

[sammy62]

Once Casey invoked her rights to an attorney, she certainly is not going to agree to a polygraph. Besides, what good would it do anyway? The machine would just explode and maybe kill the OC.

I've changed my mind. Maybe it would do some good after all.

Maybe the 4 A's could have a contest...see who can get the best score.
We could all take bets and pay for bozo's team. or not....:thumbdown:

[Katprint]

Correct me if I am wrong, please. From what you posted I understand you are saying that if Casey had a psychological phenomenon of being a mother, then she should be forgiven and let off. Or any other killer. I am sure you can find all kinds of phenonmenon in their lives.

That sounds just like the new lawyer she has now. imohoo Casey will not get the dp. She may get life though. It will have nothing to do with the dramtics, or antics of the new lawyer, or LKB.
Yikes! Don't put words in my mouth!

I am NOT saying that if Casey had some sort of psychological problem then she should be forgiven and let off. I AM saying that when a person has been convicted of First Degree Murder and is facing the death penalty, showing that a person did something because they suffered from a genuine psychological affliction is more likely to persuade a jury to spare their life. The convicted murderer would still spend the rest of their life in prison without possibility of parole (LWOP).

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[Sandy001]

everyone is entitled to a defense-- i think most defense attorneys dont want to know Honorable (my term) defense attorneys go into defense work to make sure the defendent gets a fair trial, not necessarily to prove them "innocent." A truly ethical atty will recuse him/herself if they KNOW of guilt. Most will stay on and continue the "spin." They do NOT have to recuse themselves, but most do NOT want to know guilt or innocense as it messes with their strategy (and their heads).

I know of two friends who went into law who will NOT defend someone they know is guilty. But that's two out of how many? They don't make the big bucks either.

I jsut watched a program on the Menendez Bros and how Leslie Abrams would only take the case if she was paid a million.

[Bala]

I would love to see what would happen if someone offered to give the Cindy and George a million $ to take a lie detector test. If they pass they get the money.:thumbsup:

[martha]

casey would never take a test she knows she is not telling the truth about anything that really happened and the other a;s know they or not telling the truth. Does cindy ever go to see her dad now. It is not long until father;s day I just wonder if she will go see him. I have not heard one word about cindy seeing her mother and daddy. I guess george don;t see his mother or day eather. This is a strange family.jmho

[shelkobe]

I don't think there's any real code between Casey and Lee, I just think she is a pathological liar, and the family is used to not getting straight answers from her. She talks in circles and is cryptic because she can't keep track of all her lies.

[martha]

I would love to see what would happen if someone offered to give the Cindy and George a million $ to take a lie detector test. If they pass they get the money.:thumbsup:they would not take the test because they know they would not pass it and they or making so much money now they don;t need the million. they have not worked since this all started where is all the money coming from to pay all their bills? I guess they have their house paid of by now. jmho

[Sandy001]

Yikes! Don't put words in my mouth!

I am NOT saying that if Casey had some sort of psychological problem then she should be forgiven and let off. I AM saying that when a person has been convicted of First Degree Murder and is facing the death penalty, showing that a person did something because they suffered from a genuine psychological affliction is more likely to persuade a jury to spare their life. The convicted murderer would still spend the rest of their life in prison without possibility of parole (LWOP).

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Kat, am I correct in saying that narcissism and sociopathy are NOT considered genuine psychological affliction? They are classified as personality disorders. Casey would have to be schizophrenic, bipolar, or other genuine affliction as defined by the DSM IV.
Always only my own opinions[/QUOTE]

[Dick Tracy]

A lawyer friend who had to take a class on the direction the eyes take -e.g., what part of memory are they accessing (visual, audio) said left and down means no memory to access. Very interesting because as you said that's EXACTLY where Peterson's eyes went in his interviews.

The only problem I have with KC and the jail video is that I believe the monitor they look at to see the persons they are watching is lower than the camera but I'm not sure. But in every way, KC is deceptive.

I've noticed her eyes on those interviews. Left and down. No memory to recall. That is extremely interresting to me.

[martha]

Honorable (my term) defense attorneys go into defense work to make sure the defendent gets a fair trial, not necessarily to prove them "innocent." A truly ethical atty will recuse him/herself if they KNOW of guilt. Most will stay on and continue the "spin." They do NOT have to recuse themselves, but most do NOT want to know guilt or innocense as it messes with their strategy (and their heads).

I know of two friends who went into law who will NOT defend someone they know is guilty. But that's two out of how many? They don't make the big bucks either.

I jsut watched a program on the Menendez Bros and how Leslie Abrams would only take the case if she was paid a million.ITA with you they just want to get them off but they don;t really want to know if they or guilty. I don;t see how they can defend baby killers or any other killer. jmho

[Amy]

Under ordinary circumstances, a person's medical records are cannot be released unless the person's health is at issue in the case. For instance in a civil personal injury lawsuit, because the person's medical condition is at issue opposing counsel can obtain the records. In a criminal case, if the the defendant is pleading insanity, the records can be obtained. But, here under these circumstances, I cannot see the records being released. JMO

I wonder if the psych evals Casey had to go thru prior release on bond would come into the picture? Probably not, as long as the defense isn't trying to go for insanity. Guess they could be, during the sentencing phase--to go for mitigating circumstance?

I think there was a question maybe yesterday about Cindy's seeing a therapist (Shirley says Cindy couldn't do what the therapist recommended, so quit, but has she since been seeing a therapist?) if HER records could be subpoenaed. IMO, I don't see how they can--since she isn't the defendant?

[kOOkie1]

Thank you, it was a toss up between the 24th and the 27th . Trying to clean and blog at the same time. :biggrin:

Thank you both!:smile:
I tell ya it's hard to keep up sometimes.

[Sandy001]

<bolding mine>
I totally agree. I always thought Mark Geragos should have presented a psychological expert to testify about the phenomenon of men who freak out over the responsibilities of fatherhood, ongoing or impending. I think Scott Peterson might have seemed less like a selfish inhuman monster if there had been some evidence showing how some men are unusually susceptible to this type of psychological stress. Instead there was a parade of witnesses who basically told the jury their guilty verdict was wrong, which IMO firmed up the jury's desire to hold Scott Peterson accountable in the ultimate way.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions Kat, Garegos tried like crazy to get manslaughter into the instructions to the jury. The judge did NOT allow it because at no time did the defense attempt to prove that it might have been accidental, in the middle of a fight, or anything like that. Just like Casey is the "perfect mother," Scott was the "perfect husband" in the "perfect marriage." If Baez hopes to get her off the death penalty, he had better change his tune and unlock himself out of the "innocent" stance. I know that good defense attorneys will keep their options open, but Baez has NOT done that. I don't know if it is jsut him or if it is Casey, but he'd better get some flexibility soon.

I think Baez has convinced Casey that he will "win" this case. I think she has a different definition of "win" than he does. jmo

[Amy]

Honestly their code talk is crafted. This is not something that they would be able to come up with in a short amount of time. I just wonder if everything that she has told anybody about Caylee or any conversation that she has ever had with anyone is nothing more than code talk and she doesn't know how to not talk like this. To an unknowing person, it appears to be sentences that just dance around a question or statment, to her she is communicating the only way she knows how. It is scary none the less.


And, Casey is telling the A's that she IS telling LE, they just don't understand her. I think, in one of the LE interviews with her, she is telling the detectives that she is trying to tell them, in her round about way. If that is they way she communicated with EVERYONE, then I'm surprised she ever made it to Fusion or any of the other places @ the same time as any of her friends!!!!

And, Cindy, @ the beginning, said that when Casey lies, there is some truth in there. And she DID say Casey lies!!! She can deny that all she wants, but golly, it's ON TAPE.

[farrahrani]

Kat, am I correct in saying that narcissism and sociopathy are NOT considered genuine psychological affliction? They are classified as personality disorders. Casey would have to be schizophrenic, bipolar, or other genuine affliction as defined by the DSM IV.
Always only my own opinions[/QUOTE]


I think you're right on that.

I'm not even sure about bipolar because that's treated with medications. I don't know if someone could get out of a murder charge with that. My ex is, though he refuses to get diagnosed, and so was my father. Both are prone to being physically abusive, but now manage to deal with their issues and keep their tempers under control. And neither have come close to killing anyone.

Is bipolar also a personality disorder or can it be used in a defense?

[Lapis]

I wonder if the psych evals Casey had to go thru prior release on bond would come into the picture? Probably not, as long as the defense isn't trying to go for insanity. Guess they could be, during the sentencing phase--to go for mitigating circumstance?

I think there was a question maybe yesterday about Cindy's seeing a therapist (Shirley says Cindy couldn't do what the therapist recommended, so quit, but has she since been seeing a therapist?) if HER records could be subpoenaed. IMO, I don't see how they can--since she isn't the defendant?

It has always been my understanding that the medical records of a witness are never subject to a subpeona.

As for psych evals of Casey. IIRC one of the TH (the young blond prosecutor from Fla.) stated that because the state did not elect to seek the death penalty within the time limit set by the court (IIRC 45 days from the filing of the charges) then they have forfeited the right to have Casey evaluated. I don't know about the ones already conducted at the order of the court.

JMO

[Katprint]

Kat, am I correct in saying that narcissism and sociopathy are NOT considered genuine psychological affliction? They are classified as personality disorders. Casey would have to be schizophrenic, bipolar, or other genuine affliction as defined by the DSM IV.
The genuineness of the affliction would be something argued by the attorneys. In my experience, one can ALWAYS find an expert to testify that the person has the requisite affliction.

By way of example, California has a "medical marijuana" compassionate use statute that basically says that California will not spend its resources to prosecute people who use marijuana to treat ailments. Immediately after this law became effective, certain physicians began to advertise that they would write marijuana prescriptions (of course, their fees for office visits, examinations, diagnosis etc. must be paid.) This website http://www.canorml.org/prop/215physicians.html lists "Medicinal Cannabis Specialists." Some physicians have expressed the view that EVERYBODY can benefit from using marijuana. If I ever need an expert to testify that my client had a medical condition - headaches, muscle cramps, whatever - justifying his use of marijuana, I can find one in 5 minutes or less.

Similarly, there are psychological experts who can be relied up to testify that practically every person walking this earth is suffering from some genuine psychological affliction. Not legal insanity and probably not anything big enough to qualify for an "official" disorder listed in the DSM IV (or DSM III which was a little broader with regard to some disorders) but something which might be enough to evoke the tiniest bit of sympathy from a juror who would otherwise vote for the death penalty.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[Amy]

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3581916879/m/48019429001

I didn't know that both Kasen and Baez had worked together on a murder case of a child. But this article says that they did.

Thanks for the link.

I see where Baez "doesn't let his ego" get in the way, and if this man can get a new trial based on the motion, he wishes him luck.

Did I read that the defense had requested a plea and it was rejected by the prosecution?

So, wonder if all Baez is doing is going to end with Casey being able to appeal on ineffective counsel? Actually, I have wondered this all along. Unless Baez is really smart, and just lets people think he is a bumbling, less than knowledgeable attorney, then gives a brilliant defense presentation? If so, wonder if that would be what he had taught his lawyer students in trial preparation?

[Sun]

I think Baez has convinced Casey that he will "win" this case. I think she has a different definition of "win" than he does. jmo

That is EXACTLY what I think too!

[Sandy001]

Thanks for the link.

I see where Baez "doesn't let his ego" get in the way, and if this man can get a new trial based on the motion, he wishes him luck.

Did I read that the defense had requested a plea and it was rejected by the prosecution?

So, wonder if all Baez is doing is going to end with Casey being able to appeal on ineffective counsel? Actually, I have wondered this all along. Unless Baez is really smart, and just lets people think he is a bumbling, less than knowledgeable attorney, then gives a brilliant defense presentation? If so, wonder if that would be what he had taught his lawyer students in trial preparation? Getting a case overturned on ineffective counsel is VERY difficult to do. From what I have read, the atty can be drunk or sleep in court and still not get an appeal on ineffective. Won't happen because Baez is actively pursuing this case and has hired experts up the ying yang. That is NOT what an ineffective counsel does. His ego also will not admit he is ineffective, not even for "his girl"

[Katprint]

Honorable (my term) defense attorneys go into defense work to make sure the defendent gets a fair trial, not necessarily to prove them "innocent." A truly ethical atty will recuse him/herself if they KNOW of guilt. Most will stay on and continue the "spin." They do NOT have to recuse themselves, but most do NOT want to know guilt or innocense as it messes with their strategy (and their heads).

I know of two friends who went into law who will NOT defend someone they know is guilty. But that's two out of how many? They don't make the big bucks either.

I jsut watched a program on the Menendez Bros and how Leslie Abrams would only take the case if she was paid a million.
So the court has to let all the obviously guilty criminals go (like Casey, for instance) because no truly ethical attorneys will agree to represent them? That seems unworkable to me.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[court~critic1®]

Yikes! Don't put words in my mouth!

I am NOT saying that if Casey had some sort of psychological problem then she should be forgiven and let off. I AM saying that when a person has been convicted of First Degree Murder and is facing the death penalty, showing that a person did something because they suffered from a genuine psychological affliction is more likely to persuade a jury to spare their life. The convicted murderer would still spend the rest of their life in prison without possibility of parole (LWOP).

Katprint
Always only my own opinions





Sorry, if I mis-understood you. I said you would correct me, and you did. Thanks! I still do not think Casey will get the DP moo Personally I want her to get life plus 1 day. That way, in most states I believe, she can't get paroled any time soon or later.


safe one!

[desmom]

--snipped--

....Casey sure wasted no time between Ricardo and TonE, did she?? Weird that she showed up with Caylee at 11 pm. or maybe it's just me:huh:

I wonder if Casey was afraid to stay home alone at night.

[spiritwolf46]

Yeah! I wasn't trying to be funny, but it's just my nature in conversation. They'd have to hook that polygraph up to Hoover Dam to get enough power to handle that polygraph.

KING: Hoover Dam? No kidding. Weird.

OMG! ROFLMAO! :lol:

[Amy]

Once Casey invoked her rights to an attorney, she certainly is not going to agree to a polygraph. Besides, what good would it do anyway? The machine would just explode and maybe kill the OC.

I've changed my mind. Maybe it would do some good after all.

But the tester might have been collateral damage, and that wouldn't have been fair to him/her.

[Katprint]

Getting a case overturned on ineffective counsel is VERY difficult to do. From what I have read, the atty can be drunk or sleep in court and still not get an appeal on ineffective. Won't happen because Baez is actively pursuing this case and has hired experts up the ying yang. That is NOT what an ineffective counsel does. His ego also will not admit he is ineffective, not even for "his girl"
Not meaning to pick on you - you just happen to have several interesting posts. Anyway...

One reason why it is so difficult to get the verdict overturned on appeal is because the defendant has to show what would have been done differently and how the defense would have been better if the attorney had been sober or awake or whatever. So, except in cases where the drunk/sleeping attorney failed to call available alibi witnesses or to introduce other evidence tending to prove the defendant's innocence or to do some other specific thing that would have made a real difference in the case, the appeals are denied.

Even when the verdict is overturned, the usual remedy is a new trial with a competent attorney. It takes serious misconduct on the part of the government for the defendant to "get off" and go free.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[Amy]

Honorable (my term) defense attorneys go into defense work to make sure the defendent gets a fair trial, not necessarily to prove them "innocent." A truly ethical atty will recuse him/herself if they KNOW of guilt. Most will stay on and continue the "spin." They do NOT have to recuse themselves, but most do NOT want to know guilt or innocense as it messes with their strategy (and their heads).

I know of two friends who went into law who will NOT defend someone they know is guilty. But that's two out of how many? They don't make the big bucks either.

I jsut watched a program on the Menendez Bros and how Leslie Abrams would only take the case if she was paid a million.

Geragos' price was also a million. Both complained when the money ran out. I know MG asked for public defense funds. Am not sure, but didn't the Mendendez Bro whom Abrams defended in the second trial ask for public funds? Or maybe both. Did Abrams have to settle for what public defense lawyers were allocated @ that time?

[tulpje]

Thanks for the link.

I see where Baez "doesn't let his ego" get in the way, and if this man can get a new trial based on the motion, he wishes him luck.

Did I read that the defense had requested a plea and it was rejected by the prosecution?

So, wonder if all Baez is doing is going to end with Casey being able to appeal on ineffective counsel? Actually, I have wondered this all along. Unless Baez is really smart, and just lets people think he is a bumbling, less than knowledgeable attorney, then gives a brilliant defense presentation? If so, wonder if that would be what he had taught his lawyer students in trial preparation?



Baez imitating Columbo.......

:lol:

[Amy]

casey would never take a test she knows she is not telling the truth about anything that really happened and the other a;s know they or not telling the truth. Does cindy ever go to see her dad now. It is not long until father;s day I just wonder if she will go see him. I have not heard one word about cindy seeing her mother and daddy. I guess george don;t see his mother or day eather. This is a strange family.jmho

They went somewhere for Thanksgiving. That is when Cindy says her computer was probably hacked into (and did she also think someone had a key to get in?) There actual destination was not reported, that I remember, but they also took the opportunity to check out a "sighting" in the area. Wonder if it was her parents or his that they went to for Thanksgiving? Or, just somewhere "out of town."

[kOOkie1]

I wonder if Casey was afraid to stay home alone at night.

I would guess she was the kind of person that was. She seemed to like to always have something going on..either texting or being on the phone or being with other people. Maybe she was afraid to be alone with her own thoughts..I think she always felt more important when she had people around to lie to. I wish some of them would have called her on her bs.

[Kathlb]

I have stated here before that I am not a DP qualified attorney so I'm not sure that I have any more insight than anyone else.

I do know that it is always difficult to argue cases in the alternative. By that I mean that it is always best to pick a strategy and stick with it. Often times the foundation you lay on one issue can have an effect on another issue. For instance in civil cases, if you may not be able to convince a jury that your client is not responsible, but the defense you have presented may mitigate the damages.

I suppose they could stand up at the penalty phase and say something like "We tried to demonstrate her innocence but we accept your verdict and this is why you should spare her life....." and then present the evidence of mitigation.
JMO


Okay thanks Lapis, that make more sense.

[Amy]

I wonder if Casey was afraid to stay home alone at night.

But, she wouldn't have been home alone @ night--George and Cindy were there. And Caylee.

[Barbara fl.]

I read a transcript of a phone call from between Lee and the OC. He ask her a question, and she gives what appears to be a just a answer filled with double talk.

Lee answers: Perfect.............




That's the word's I was looking for "double talk"....that's all Casey ever did...she never once gave any answer that was relevent to Caylee being missing.....it was all "double talk".....

[Barbara fl.]

I have stated here before that I am not a DP qualified attorney so I'm not sure that I have any more insight than anyone else.

I do know that it is always difficult to argue cases in the alternative. By that I mean that it is always best to pick a strategy and stick with it. Often times the foundation you lay on one issue can have an effect on another issue. For instance in civil cases, if you may not be able to convince a jury that your client is not responsible, but the defense you have presented may mitigate the damages.

I suppose they could stand up at the penalty phase and say something like "We tried to demonstrate her innocence but we accept your verdict and this is why you should spare her life....." and then present the evidence of mitigation.

JMO

That sound like the most logical way to approach the mitigating circumstances.....I know they wont be allowed to say that Casey in "not guilty" of this murder once she has been found guilty.....they can probably say it outside of the court to the media but not during the sentencing....

[kOOkie1]

I wonder if the jury will get to go to Suburban drive to see just how close it is to Hopespring??
ohh nevermind..maybe they wont if the trial is not in Orlando.

[saywhat04]

Page 39 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2811544/Casey-Anthony-Documents-Released-Nov-26-013

Email from Shirley Plesea to Rick dated August 13, 2008:

"Dear Rick, I read all the letters. I agree with most of what you said. I know she won't believe any of until she sees that little body or Casey says where she is.

I made her upset the last note I wrote. So what does she think we can do? If they are so sure Caylee is kidnapped, what does she think we can do to find her--look in Myrtle Beach, - or in Mt. Dora?......"

IMO, Shirley knew as early as 8/13 Caylee suspected was deceased. It also sounds like Cindy was giving the family heck for not looking for a kidnapped Caylee. IIRC, Shirley lives in Mt. Dora and Rick lives in Myrtle Beach.

My heart goes out to Shirley. jmo

Wow. So Cindy was telling her elderly, infirm mother to get off her azz and search for a live Caylee, too? :mad:

God forbid Cindy turn any of her anger on her daughter, and demand to know the truth about what happened to Caylee.

I don't think Cindy wanted confirmation from Casey of what had become of little Caylee. That information would, no doubt, highlight Cindy's involvement in whatever precipitated the fight that sent Casey off in a huff, with Caylee in tow. I think Cindy preferred to play Casey's game and accuse everyone else of not doing enough to find her granddaughter, or being involved in Caylee's disappearance.

Shameful behavior. imo

[AlohaRainbow]

A lawyer friend who had to take a class on the direction the eyes take -e.g., what part of memory are they accessing (visual, audio) said left and down means no memory to access. Very interesting because as you said that's EXACTLY where Peterson's eyes went in his interviews.
*snip*.
the way i learned neurolinguistic programming, eyes down and to the left means the person is accessing feelings/kinesthetic 'channel' (rather than visual 'channel'... doesn't necessarily mean that there is no memory to access). eyes up and to the left would indicate constructing a visual image (whereas eyes up and to the right would indicate recalling a visual image).

although, a slight disclaimer... some people are more visually oriented in their everyday approach, while others are more auditorially oriented and others are more feeling oriented. if you listen to the words that people use, it can often give a clue as to their predominate 'channel'. imo, casey saying so adamently "i feel it in my gut" and "it's just a gut feeling that i have" indicates that her kinesthetic/feeling channel often dominates [someone with a more visual approach might say "i can just see it in my mind that caylee is ok".] even though the person in each case might be lying, their eye access cues could be different, depending on which 'channel' is their predominent one.
http://www.blifaloo.com/info/lies_eyes.php

phrases that people use that can give a clue as to how they're oriented:
(visually oriented person) it's clear to me, i see what you're saying


(auditory oriented) clear as a bell, i hear what you're saying


(kinesthetically oriented) if i could just get a handle on the situation, get a grip!, i feel it in my gut

[saywhat04]

Found this in a search for Andrea Lyon cases in Florida

*snipped for space*

bolding by me. If these are her words to a defense of a DP case then JB is going to have to follow. imo If I am reading this wrong please let me know. TIA

Makes perfect sense to me.

If the defense mounts a SODDI argument, the jury doesn't buy it and convicts Casey, their (the defense team's) credibility is already damaged (more or less). To come in during the penalty phase and as much as say, "Okay, you busted us. She did it. But here's why she did it blah blah blah" ... seems to me the defense loses even more credibility, and the chance of avoiding the DP is less.

Seems to me a jury would figure if the defense lied during the guilt phase of the trial, they could be lying during the penalty phase, and they might care a whole lot less about the story Lyon tells to explain what happened in the OC's background to make her do what she did.

[saywhat04]

So, since AL says "the client is innocent" (before reading up on the case!!!!) we can assume that she is going to go for "She didn't do it" defense first of all. What happens then, when defense loses and Casey is convicted? By her words, whatever they try for mitigating circumstances to get the sentencing to be less than the DP, their case is already cooked.

Seems the only way to get around this would be a plea bargain to get LWOP instead of going thru trial and possibly getting the DP. I just can't see that a supposedly (by all accounts, by all reviews, etc etc) intelligent person would have started out with such an outlandish statement about being innocent but not knowing the case. That is just so.....stupid, IMO. I would have more respect for her if she had just said, she was new to the case, had a lot to read up on, and then, as she commenced to say later--I will not be giving information to the press, all that needs to be known will plainly be in the motions I present in court. You WILL KNOW by the motions exactly where I am going, what I am doing.

IMO

ITA. Seems to me Lyon is already on shaky credibility ground by proclaiming the OC *innocent*, and also for assuming the prosecution is up to dirty tricks by puitting the DP back on the table.

[CelticDawn]

ITA. Seems to me Lyon is already on shaky credibility ground by proclaiming the OC *innocent*, and also for assuming the prosecution is up to dirty tricks by puitting the DP back on the table.

Until she goes to trial...any attorney is going to proclaim their clients innocence....HOWever, making accusatory remarks as to the prosecutions motives could backfire.....going along with Baez is going to get her FAR (into a pit she will regret falling into) IMO...

[saywhat04]

No...she NEEDS to feel important. She was given a psychiatric evaluation and found to not be incompetent or whatever the results were, she was aware of her reality.

And all that inane chatter is bs. There is no code. She simply lies and hints at things, and her lies are called 'code'. She may reference things that are familiar only to family, but that's the limit of it. Lies, mistruths, code, all the same thing. And all that chatter is mostly so they can hear their own voices, and sound like they are conferring on something. It's all just babble if you read it. They like to think they are important and that their speech needs to be analyzed. Also, some liars have issues with silence, so they fill it up with as much chatter as possible, not realizing they might be speaking nonsense, repeating themselves, or even contradicting themselves or their alibi, lol.


IMO

Bolding mine.

I totally agree. There is no code. There are no underlying meanings. This family is accustomed to babbling nonsense at one another, and they are simply doing more of the same.

What I find amusing is their arrogance or sense of entitlement or whatever it is causes them to assume the rest of the world is equally as accepting of their nonsense. They really don't get that they sound like a bunch of uneducated BS artists to everyone but themselves. :rolleyes:

[CelticDawn]

Makes perfect sense to me.

If the defense mounts a SODDI argument, the jury doesn't buy it and convicts Casey, their (the defense team's) credibility is already damaged (more or less). To come in during the penalty phase and as much as say, "Okay, you busted us. She did it. But here's why she did it blah blah blah" ... seems to me the defense loses even more credibility, and the chance of avoiding the DP is less.

Seems to me a jury would figure if the defense lied during the guilt phase of the trial, they could be lying during the penalty phase, and they might care a whole lot less about the story Lyon tells to explain what happened in the OC's background to make her do what she did.


I dont see how logicaly any SODDI defense in the trial and mitigating circumstances that caused her to have done it plea in the penalty phase would ever work.....seems to me that IF they say SODDI and try to come back and say she did it because....then they will be seen as nothing but LIARS....and isnt there some law against suborning purgery???...even for the great attorneys?????

[Amy]

Until she goes to trial...any attorney is going to proclaim their clients innocence....HOWever, making accusatory remarks as to the prosecutions motives could backfire.....going along with Baez is going to get her FAR (into a pit she will regret falling into) IMO...

If, once she reviews facts about the case, and I mean really looks @ the case, she then wants to say, "my client is innocent" sounds right. But to say I HAVEN'T READ UP ON THE CASE but my client is innocent makes her lose credibility, IMO. Another thing might be to say, "my client maintains she is innocent. I do have to review more of the case before I can make any more statements, or something along those linew would also be understandable and make sense. But to say you know Jack Schott about the case and proclaim your client is innocent doesn't make sense, IMO.

[CelticDawn]

If, once she reviews facts about the case, and I mean really looks @ the case, she then wants to say, "my client is innocent" sounds right. But to say I HAVEN'T READ UP ON THE CASE but my client is innocent makes her lose credibility, IMO. Another thing might be to say, "my client maintains she is innocent. I do have to review more of the case before I can make any more statements, or something along those linew would also be understandable and make sense. But to say you know Jack Schott about the case and proclaim your client is innocent doesn't make sense, IMO.

No...youre right on that....saying she doesnt know but still saying shes innocent....I never thought about her not knowing statement ...but sounds silly....

[sunstar]

Geragos' price was also a million. Both complained when the money ran out. I know MG asked for public defense funds. Am not sure, but didn't the Mendendez Bro whom Abrams defended in the second trial ask for public funds? Or maybe both. Did Abrams have to settle for what public defense lawyers were allocated @ that time?

About the Menendez brothers, yes, she was allowed to continue representing Erik at the 2nd trial getting the public defenders rate, but Lyle's attorneys from the 1st trial didn't stick around and he got public defenders for the 2nd trial. I wonder too how long it will be before JB needs to ask for funds??? MOO :smile:

[Barbara fl.]

Getting a case overturned on ineffective counsel is VERY difficult to do. From what I have read, the atty can be drunk or sleep in court and still not get an appeal on ineffective. Won't happen because Baez is actively pursuing this case and has hired experts up the ying yang. That is NOT what an ineffective counsel does. His ego also will not admit he is ineffective, not even for "his girl"

And aside from that, Judge Strickland is taking precautions every step of the way to insure that there will not be grounds for a mis-trial.....

[AlohaRainbow]

If, once she reviews facts about the case, and I mean really looks @ the case, she then wants to say, "my client is innocent" sounds right. But to say I HAVEN'T READ UP ON THE CASE but my client is innocent makes her lose credibility, IMO. Another thing might be to say, "my client maintains she is innocent. I do have to review more of the case before I can make any more statements, or something along those linew would also be understandable and make sense. But to say you know Jack Schott about the case and proclaim your client is innocent doesn't make sense, IMO.
ita!
i wonder if she watched her own interview later... and if it sounded lame even to her

[sunstar]

I wonder if the jury will get to go to Suburban drive to see just how close it is to Hopespring??
ohh nevermind..maybe they wont if the trial is not in Orlando.

I don't think it would be necessary in the age of Google maps & satellite imagery. But if that fails, there's always video of Geraldo's brother Craig's little drive down the street that took 40 seconds or Nancy saying every night it's 15 houses down the street (which is a slightly incorrect count). :biggrin: MOO

[Barbara fl.]

This pretty much defines Casey' language.


Meaningless speech that consists of nonsense syllables mixed with intelligible words; gibberish.
Deliberately ambiguous or evasive language. Also called doublespeak.
http://www.answers.com/topic/double-talk



Thanks.....I'm not that good at wording things....:wink:

[saywhat04]

Until she goes to trial...any attorney is going to proclaim their clients innocence....HOWever, making accusatory remarks as to the prosecutions motives could backfire.....going along with Baez is going to get her FAR (into a pit she will regret falling into) IMO...

Addressing the sentence in red ...

This is what I keep reading and hearing. I personally would not trust an attorney who knowingly lies or makes a brash statement like "she's innocent" before she knows the facts of the case. Lies are lies, and credibility is credibility, no matter the profession, imo. I'm uncomfortable with what seems like an accepted practice of lying, especially by an "officer of the court." Just my own personal hang up, I guess.

[saywhat04]

ita!
i wonder if she watched her own interview later... and if it sounded lame even to her

I would hope an attorney with her reputation would take care with every single word she utters in public. I have to believe she meant to say what she said. Which, imo, is disturbing, given all that we know about the circumstances surrounding Caylee's disappearance and murder. There's not a shred of evidence pointing to the involvement of anyone but the OC.

[Pruddennce]

I did see a mention once, where LE/FBI may have conducted a voice stress test on Casey's statements. Or, maybe it was just one of them asking if one had been done.

one reference I saw was in the family services notes.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2008-11/43228283.PDF

last page.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence...*

[Unleashed]

In Florida, a simple 7-5 majority can yield a death sentence and a jury's recommendation of life in prison can be overridden by a judge in certain circumstances.

Just trying to remember something, old-timers, you know!

Does the jury recommend DP at the time of the verdict, or after the sentencing hearing?

TIA

JMO

[apothecary]

the way i learned neurolinguistic programming, eyes down and to the left means the person is accessing feelings/kinesthetic 'channel' (rather than visual 'channel'... doesn't necessarily mean that there is no memory to access). eyes up and to the left would indicate constructing a visual image (whereas eyes up and to the right would indicate recalling a visual image).

although, a slight disclaimer... some people are more visually oriented in their everyday approach, while others are more auditorially oriented and others are more feeling oriented. if you listen to the words that people use, it can often give a clue as to their predominate 'channel'. imo, casey saying so adamently "i feel it in my gut" and "it's just a gut feeling that i have" indicates that her kinesthetic/feeling channel often dominates [someone with a more visual approach might say "i can just see it in my mind that caylee is ok".] even though the person in each case might be lying, their eye access cues could be different, depending on which 'channel' is their predominent one.
http://www.blifaloo.com/info/lies_eyes.php

phrases that people use that can give a clue as to how they're oriented:
(visually oriented person) it's clear to me, i see what you're saying


(auditory oriented) clear as a bell, i hear what you're saying


(kinesthetically oriented) if i could just get a handle on the situation, get a grip!, i feel it in my gut
Wow that was interesting.I know when I try to remember or reconstruct something I visualize looking up in the upper right corner.I don't know if my eyes actually do this but my visualization is in that upper right hand corner of my brain or visual field or whatever.When I visually turn pages or whatever in a book to remember I use the right side.Could be because I am right handed.

[tulpje]

Honorable (my term) defense attorneys go into defense work to make sure the defendent gets a fair trial, not necessarily to prove them "innocent." A truly ethical atty will recuse him/herself if they KNOW of guilt. Most will stay on and continue the "spin." They do NOT have to recuse themselves, but most do NOT want to know guilt or innocense as it messes with their strategy (and their heads).

I know of two friends who went into law who will NOT defend someone they know is guilty. But that's two out of how many? They don't make the big bucks either.

I jsut watched a program on the Menendez Bros and how Leslie Abrams would only take the case if she was paid a million.



I watched the same program last night, Leslie also told their psychologist witness to change his notes.
He did, but then by accident the prosecution received the original notes. Oops.

Watching this Baez and CO came to mind.
Delay delay and more delay, pointing fingers at other people and blaming Le for a the poor job they have done so far.

What to do when you have a guilty client?

[DoubleALady]

The main reason I find the grandparents unworthy of respect is this: After all the TV shows, press conferences, plane trips, fancy meals in fancy hotels, etc., their poor little grandbaby is still a box of bones at the funeral home. Why hasn't this child been buried after all this time?

[Chardonnay]

This FLB here had more time on my hands today, so went back to read CA's depo, and this cracked me up.. This was the last thing she said..She once again purgered herself. I hope this comes back to bite her and has to serve jail time.

MR. MORGAN: Well, you've told the truth at
least.
THE WITNESS: I always told the truth, Mr.
Morgan. I went on TV a while ago and said that it
wasn't her.
MR. DILL: Off the record.

[sunstar]

Just trying to remember something, old-timers, you know!

Does the jury recommend DP at the time of the verdict, or after the sentencing hearing?

TIA

JMO

There's a separate penalty phase after the guilt/innocent phase of the trial. It's like a little trial of it's own where both sides will argue for or against the DP, and call witnesses. Then the jury will go deliberate if she should get DP or not. MOO

[CelticDawn]

This FLB here had more time on my hands today, so went back to read CA's depo, and this cracked me up.. This was the last thing she said..She once again purgered herself. I hope this comes back to bite her and has to serve jail time.

MR. MORGAN: Well, you've told the truth at
least.
THE WITNESS: I always told the truth, Mr.
Morgan. I went on TV a while ago and said that it
wasn't her.
MR. DILL: Off the record.

Oh FGS!!! I can just visualize cindy saying that...!!! :lol: :lol;

[*MoonRider*]

Oh FGS!!! I can just visualize cindy saying that...!!! :lol: :lol;

This is Cindy telling the truth as she crosses herself over Lee. imo
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/wink.jpg

[CelticDawn]

This is Cindy telling the truth as she crosses herself over Lee. imo
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/wink.jpg

If that was Holy water in that bottle it would have exploded!!! :lol:

I wonder.....For somebody who PRAYS and would NOT be told that she cant PRAY....She sure takes a lot of chances....

[saywhat04]

This is Cindy telling the truth as she crosses herself over Lee. imo
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/wink.jpg

:laugh: This pic is right up there with the video (no longer available) of Baez storming out of the A's house with the OC trailing after him ... the one where he throws her car door open so hard it looks like it'll come off. :lol:

Ah, the memories. :sneaky:

[Chardonnay]

Oh FGS!!! I can just visualize cindy saying that...!!! :lol: :lol;

And this quote from her, I had never seen before. Pg 18 of her depo...
And here I thought the first time they heard of the Zanny was after the 911 call.


A... Jesse is the one, excuse me, that started
calling Zanny the nanny. Okay? Casey called her the
baby-sitter. So the nanny came from the Grunds.
Q.... Fair enough. And we're going to get -- I

[sunstar]

If anybody is bored tonight, tune in Nancy's show. It's a repeat of "Tot Mom in Jail - Part 2" and video of Casey's visit in jail from her parents. She's going on and on and on and on about stuff going on at the jail and whatnot, nonstop. CA just passed the phone to GA to listen in. I guess CA's ear needed a rest. :lol:

[Sandy001]

They went somewhere for Thanksgiving. That is when Cindy says her computer was probably hacked into (and did she also think someone had a key to get in?) There actual destination was not reported, that I remember, but they also took the opportunity to check out a "sighting" in the area. Wonder if it was her parents or his that they went to for Thanksgiving? Or, just somewhere "out of town." Wassn't the so-called hacking into her computer to cover her email to someone about how she should have given LE and "dog's toothbrush"?

[*MoonRider*]

:laugh: This pic is right up there with the video (no longer available) of Baez storming out of the A's house with the OC trailing after him ... the one where he throws her car door open so hard it looks like it'll come off. :lol:

Ah, the memories. :sneaky:

I could kick myself for not saving that one on youtube. I'm sure someone has it for trial.

[Sandy001]

It looks like the As have forgotten all about Caylee. They treat OC like she is the star of a show like she is pretending to be. I hate looking at all of them.

William Rivera was chairman of NLH. I wonder if he is related to Geraldo. NLH, Pete Benevides, and Geraldo all grabbed on to Baez and Casey within a week after Casey was charged. Gr's real name is Rivers, I believe

[kingfish]

Currently in Florida, only judges can impose death sentences, but they are required by law to give great weight to recommendations from juries. It takes a vote of 7-5 or greater to recommend death in a first-degree murder case. The only alternative is life in prison without parole.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/1543

Hawkeye said it best

[*MoonRider*]

If anybody is bored tonight, tune in Nancy's show. It's a repeat of "Tot Mom in Jail - Part 2" and video of Casey's visit in jail from her parents. She's going on and on and on and on about stuff going on at the jail and whatnot, nonstop. CA just passed the phone to GA to listen in. I guess CA's ear needed a rest. :lol:
The Hand Family barf

[Chardonnay]

If anybody is bored tonight, tune in Nancy's show. It's a repeat of "Tot Mom in Jail - Part 2" and video of Casey's visit in jail from her parents. She's going on and on and on and on about stuff going on at the jail and whatnot, nonstop. CA just passed the phone to GA to listen in. I guess CA's ear needed a rest. :lol:

Can someone please direct me to the transcripts, Part 1 & 2 ? Pretty Please!! TIA

[sunstar]

Can someone please direct me to the transcripts, Part 1 & 2 ? Pretty Please!! TIA

I'm not sure Nancy ever posted them, but check here anyway!

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/nancy.grace/

Or maybe there's another link with the complete jail recordings somewhere else. :shrug:

[saywhat04]

The Hand Family barf

I was just thinking about that ridiculous analogy, and how the A's were fawning all over each other during those visits. All the Hi Gorgeous's, the I love you's, I miss you's, stay strong, we're here for you, I just want to be home with you guys, and on and on. They went from all that family unity to not one visit since the OC went back to jail for good in October. Not one visit by any member of the Hand Family to their felonious little ring finger in 8 months. :glare:

[Sandy001]

His bio states that his father was Cruz Rivera, a cab driver in NY. He was from Porta Rica. The Riveras in Orlando were from Porta Rica also. His name has changed as many times as his reputation. The only thing agreed upon 100% is that he was GERALD, not Geraldo.

[Amy]

I would hope an attorney with her reputation would take care with every single word she utters in public. I have to believe she meant to say what she said. Which, imo, is disturbing, given all that we know about the circumstances surrounding Caylee's disappearance and murder. There's not a shred of evidence pointing to the involvement of anyone but the OC.

I think what also bothers me is that she outright says, this is not a DP case, period, and that her first motions will be to get the DP off the table. I know, as lay people, many of us will say, @ the beginning of a case---OFF WITH HIS OR HER HEAD!!!!! And, then, thru possibly lawyer type posters on board and/or information from the TH's we learn why a certain case will not be a DP case.

Here, however, NG aside (who DEMANDED the prosecution put DP on the table numerous times) the TH's have time and again said why this should have been a DP case, and I think I have seen links to laws that spell out why this qualifies as a DP case on the boards. And, then, when they found Casey's remains, we were told how the DP could be put on the table--what the time line could be for the state to change its mind for DP, even tho they had decided originally not to.

So, if we, as lay people understand why this qualifies as a DP case, what in the world would motivate this educated, learned, experienced lawyer to out and out declare this is not a DP case?? And, again, THIS IS WITHOUT ACTUALLY READING UP ON THE CASE!!!! Really, you'd think really reading up on the case would put her in a better position to know WHY the DP went on the table. I wonder, as she reads thru all the discovery provided so far, will she still maintain this isn't a DP case? Or, if she actually sees and recognizes why (and I gotta believe she is smart enough to see that) will she con't to blunder on, or will she quietly fade into the woodwork? Even if she can't get the DP off BEFORE the trial, she would be of use during the sentencing phase, so maybe she would stay on for that.

[101Spots]

<respectfully snipped>

So, if we, as lay people understand why this qualifies as a DP case, what in the world would motivate this educated, learned, experienced lawyer to out and out declare this is not a DP case?? And, again, THIS IS WITHOUT ACTUALLY READING UP ON THE CASE!!!! Really, you'd think really reading up on the case would put her in a better position to know WHY the DP went on the table. I wonder, as she reads thru all the discovery provided so far, will she still maintain this isn't a DP case? Or, if she actually sees and recognizes why (and I gotta believe she is smart enough to see that) will she con't to blunder on, or will she quietly fade into the woodwork? Even if she can't get the DP off BEFORE the trial, she would be of use during the sentencing phase, so maybe she would stay on for that.

Yes, she will. It's her mantra, her religion, and her cloak of nobility. Manson, Hitler, Bundy - none would qualify for the DP in her eyes.

[saywhat04]

Yes, she will. It's her mantra, her religion, and her cloak of nobility. Manson, Hitler, Bundy - none would qualify for the DP in her eyes.

Yep. In answer to Amy's question, I believe Ms. Lyon's stance is that no case is a death penalty case.

And I can respect her stance. (I don't agree with it, but I can certainly respect it.) What I can't respect is her admittedly uninformed proclamation of the OC's innocence, nor can I respect her admittedly uninformed position that the state is playing some sort of game by putting the DP back on the table. There's no evidence either of her uninformed positions has any basis in fact.

I guess because almost 100% of what I've read and heard about Lyon borders on reverence for not only her skill, but also her belief system (for lack of a better term), I'm really rather stunned she would make such claims on the courthouse steps before she's reviewed the facts of the case or the evidence.

Poor little Caylee. All she needed was one minor champion. Instead, her mother and accused murderer has an entire stable of people championing her cause. I'll never understand the fairness in that. :mad:

[Chardonnay]

I'm not sure Nancy ever posted them, but check here anyway!

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/nancy.grace/

Or maybe there's another link with the complete jail recordings somewhere else. :shrug:

Boo hoo, couldn't find it. Thanks anyways..

[Sun]

I have no doubt in my mind, that a Jury should be the ones to recommend or not (to the Judge) that Casey receive the Death Penalty if she is found Guilty. Guilty of a crime that took a life.

Is Casey a danger to society? It seems that Casey is a liar, a thief, and clearly avoided notifying LE until made to do so by Cindy. Could this be an instance where a killer was caught and jailed, thus preventing even more killings? A Serial Killer minded person?

I think that it will be a good thing for a Jury to have a choice.

[saywhat04]

I have no doubt in my mind, that a Jury should be the ones to recommend or not (to the Judge) that Casey receive the Death Penalty if she is found Guilty. Guilty of a crime that took a life.

Is Casey a danger to society? It seems that Casey is a liar, a thief, and clearly avoided notifying LE until made to do so by Cindy. Could this be an instance where a killer was caught and jailed, thus preventing even more killings? A Serial Killer minded person?

I think that it will be a good thing for a Jury to have a choice.

I think Casey thought she'd pull off this latest "caper" because she's been allowed to get away with everything all her life. If she was released back into society, I think her undersized brain would process it as just another example of how she gets away with everything in life. I think that further proof of her invincibility, coupled with her psychopathic nature, would definitely make her a continued danger to society. And God forbid she have more babies.

[Sun]

I think Casey thought she'd pull off this latest "caper" because she's been allowed to get away with everything all her life. If she was released back into society, I think her undersized brain would process it as just another example of how she gets away with everything in life. I think that further proof of her invincibility, coupled with her psychopathic nature, would definitely make her a continued danger to society. And God forbid she have more babies.

BINGO!!! You completed my thoughts perfectly! Thank you!

[Amy]

one reference I saw was in the family services notes.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2008-11/43228283.PDF

last page.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence...*
Thanks for the link. Interesting read all the way thru. If I've read it before, I've forgotten, lol.

Some things I noticed--

On 8/25, page 2253. She tells the PI that the father was in KY, but died in a car wreck. Supposedly there was a will and/or trust made w/Cindy and George trustees in case anything ever happened to Casey. So, guess all this would only come in play when Caylee was say, 18 or older? Oh, and his family is in Italy, and we sure wouldn't want to bother them @ this time. Wonder if she tho't to have someone to contact the family in Italy after Caylee was ID'd? See, everyone wants to know who Caylee's daddy is--and he can be traced back thru the will or trust or whatever that must be in the A's house somewhere. Probably in that bottomless drawer w/the baby daddy's obit and nanny's contact information, among other things.

Then, same date, pg 2254, Casey says after she could not find Caylee and the babysitter on her own, she came home and told her parents. Now, to just read that, one would think that one day (well, day 31?) that Casey says, OMG, I'm not getting anywhere w/my investigation. I need to go home to mom and dad (ex-le) so they can help me find my abducted baby. It should have read the MGMX searched and found the MX and dragged her home, and only after some time did MGMX learn the C/V was missing.

On 7/17--pg 2262-the PI writes that MX initiated the 911 call @ the instruction (or insistance, however it was worded) of the MGMX. He talks about the 911 tapes being released to media, but must not have listened to them himself, otherwise he could have heard that all the 911 calls were initiated by Cindy, AND the change of info (from stolen car to kidnapped baby) was ALSO started by Cindy, w/Casey getting on the line when the dispatcher wanted more info.

But, for all the way that Casey and Cindy were trying to put Casey in a good light, this document sure does not paint a nice, rosy, innocent picture of the MX--Casey Anthony.

I did read that Casey @ one point told Cindy to not talk for her, or she'd never get her story out. :biggrin:

[sunstar]

I have no doubt in my mind, that a Jury should be the ones to recommend or not (to the Judge) that Casey receive the Death Penalty if she is found Guilty. Guilty of a crime that took a life.

Is Casey a danger to society? It seems that Casey is a liar, a thief, and clearly avoided notifying LE until made to do so by Cindy. Could this be an instance where a killer was caught and jailed, thus preventing even more killings? A Serial Killer minded person?

I think that it will be a good thing for a Jury to have a choice.
I agree. FL law allows the DA to seek the DP, when certain criteria are met and obviously Caylee being a child is one of them. The jury should be the ones who decide after hearing all the evidence. I don't think the judge will grant Lyon's motion and dismiss it. MOO

[KaraokeDiva]

Not meaning to pick on you - you just happen to have several interesting posts. Anyway...

One reason why it is so difficult to get the verdict overturned on appeal is because the defendant has to show what would have been done differently and how the defense would have been better if the attorney had been sober or awake or whatever. So, except in cases where the drunk/sleeping attorney failed to call available alibi witnesses or to introduce other evidence tending to prove the defendant's innocence or to do some other specific thing that would have made a real difference in the case, the appeals are denied.

Even when the verdict is overturned, the usual remedy is a new trial with a competent attorney. It takes serious misconduct on the part of the government for the defendant to "get off" and go free.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions
I think your view might be simplistic...

Otherwise how do you explain Cynthia Sommer getting a new trial.

(ETA...she did not get a new trial as a new examination of the tissue samples led the prosecution to dismiss the charges, but that is aside the point from this post)

Leaving evidence aside.....and her atty throwing himself on the sword at the side of the road.... Just getting a hearing before the original judge is almost unheard of.

Getting a reversal based upon ineffective counsel because your atty will testify that his decison on legal points was unintentional, not an oversight is just beyond surprising.

How she got a reversal is beyond my comprehension.... I have seen far less effective representation upheld as effective.

I don't have any clue how this all works other than those with the most money, the best attys, best appealate attys and best PR agents win.

:shrug:

[Dick Tracy]

Here's an interesting exchange.... Casey has gone off the deep end complaining about how LE and the MEDIA have misconstrued EVERYTHING SHE'S said.

So how come everybody's saying you're lying?

Because nobody's (DELETED) listening to anything that I'm saying. The media completely misconstrued everything that I said. The (DELETED) detectives told them (DELETED) (DELETED). They got all of their information from me, yet at the same time, they're twisting stuff. They've already said they're going to pin this on me if they don't find Caylee. They've already said that.

The media has simply been airing conversations between LE and Casey. No one misconstrued anything she said. It was straight from the horses mouth. And it ends with, whoah to me if they don't find Caylee. She doesn't say if they don't find Caylee safe and sound. She doesn't say find the Nanny and Caylee. If they don't find Caylee.

Is this the reason that Caylee was found? Because if they don't find her, her goose is cooked?

[Amy]

Just trying to remember something, old-timers, you know!

Does the jury recommend DP at the time of the verdict, or after the sentencing hearing?

TIA

JMO

I think, just as there are usually more than one guilty options, there are more than one choices for sentencing. The jury would make their recommendation during the sentencing phase.

Hopefully, the prosecution (or the judge, whomever makes the final decision) puts more than just capital murder for a verdict. Like whatever is the next highest, sorry I don't know all the terminology for guilty options. And that there will be more than just the DP on the guilty phase, like also LWOP.

I can't remember the case, but there was one (since 2001) that the prosecution only put murder one out for guilty altho (the judge?) there was recommendation to have other options. The prosecutor demanded only murder one, and the defendant walked because the jury couldn't go for murder one. They would have convicted him of something like second degree if that had been an option. So, the prosecutor cut his nose off to spite his face, and instead of being incarcerated for some time, the defendant walked, and could not be tried again. Forever getting away with murder.

Surely, this prosecution team will not make that mistake. :wink:

[saywhat04]

But, for all the way that Casey and Cindy were trying to put Casey in a good light, this document sure does not paint a nice, rosy, innocent picture of the MX--Casey Anthony.


<snipped to address>

It's a hoot, isn't it? The more they lie to improve their image, the worse they end up looking. They leave the impression they're bad characters AND liars. :laugh:

[saywhat04]

Here's an interesting exchange.... Casey has gone off the deep end complaining about how LE and the MEDIA have misconstrued EVERYTHING SHE'S said.

So how come everybody's saying you're lying?

Because nobody's (DELETED) listening to anything that I'm saying. The media completely misconstrued everything that I said. The (DELETED) detectives told them (DELETED) (DELETED). They got all of their information from me, yet at the same time, they're twisting stuff. They've already said they're going to pin this on me if they don't find Caylee. They've already said that.

The media has simply been airing conversations between LE and Casey. No one misconstrued anything she said. It was straight from the horses mouth. And it ends with, whoah to me if they don't find Caylee. She doesn't say if they don't find Caylee safe and sound. She doesn't say find the Nanny and Caylee. If they don't find Caylee.

Is this the reason that Caylee was found? Because if they don't find her, her goose is cooked?

I think you can file virtually everything out of her mouth under "N" for Nothing Is Ever My Fault or Responsibility. She learned this *technique* from the masters -- her mommy and daddy. Wonder how that's working for all of them, NOW?

[Amy]

This is Cindy telling the truth as she crosses herself over Lee. imo
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/wink.jpg (http://%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/wink.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

Does this woman really think she has "gotten the best" of Mr Morgan and company? Geesh, she looks like she has won some verbal tilt--but she is very much deluding herself. IMO. Kind of like Judge Judy, I would imagine that on his worst day, Mr Morgan is smarted than Cindy Anthony on her best day. IMO

[haveaniceday]

Originally Posted by desmom
Page 39 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2811544/...sed-Nov-26-013

These emails between CA and her mother and Rick, are the best.
They truly shows how crazy the ant. family is!

[101Spots]

Does this woman really think she has "gotten the best" of Mr Morgan and company? Geesh, she looks like she has won some verbal tilt--but she is very much deluding herself. IMO. Kind of like Judge Judy, I would imagine that on his worst day, Mr Morgan is smarted than Cindy Anthony on her best day. IMO

Yeah, Cindy got a "Check," or so she thought.

Morgan got a "Checkmate" and Cindy is too stoopid to realize that.

[Amy]

And this quote from her, I had never seen before. Pg 18 of her depo...
And here I thought the first time they heard of the Zanny was after the 911 call.


A... Jesse is the one, excuse me, that started
calling Zanny the nanny. Okay? Casey called her the
baby-sitter. So the nanny came from the Grunds.
Q.... Fair enough. And we're going to get -- I


Well, that kind of pits Cindy Anthony against the Rev Grund who says WAY back @ the beginning (was his just reporter interviews, stints on NG, or did he have a formal LE interview?) that, when he tells Casey his family can no longer be babysitting for Caylee in 2006, Casey responds by telling him that just that day she had hired a nanny named Zanny. I'm just pretty sure he said she gave that name. SO, I guess it comes down to whom you think is more likely to tell the truth--Cindy Anthony or Richard Grund. Even tho she told him that, it seemed that few other people ever heard her call the nanny Zanny until April or May? of 2008?

[Amy]

Wassn't the so-called hacking into her computer to cover her email to someone about how she should have given LE and "dog's toothbrush"?

That is what I remember. Can't remember if the email was to a friend blogger (she and S Kraus got off to a pretty good start, IIRC, altho she soon got mad @ him) or to Kathi Belich. Or, it could have been that whomever received the email forwarded to KB. Sticky situation for CA, regardless, and she was quick to claim hackery.

[iluvmua]

Is it just me or has the "Pork Rind Princess" been gaining weight while in jail?

Pork Rind Princess= Casey's new Nickname :biggrin:

[saywhat04]

Is it just me or has the "Pork Rind Princess" been gaining weight while in jail?

Pork Rind Princess= Casey's new Nickname :biggrin:

She's definitely put on some lbs. Too bad no one on her team seems to have noticed and provided her with clothes that fit.

[kanzz]

I think your view might be simplistic...

Otherwise how do you explain Cynthia Sommer getting a new trial.

(ETA...she did not get a new trial as a new examination of the tissue samples led the prosecution to dismiss the charges, but that is aside the point from this post)

Leaving evidence aside.....and her atty throwing himself on the sword at the side of the road.... Just getting a hearing before the original judge is almost unheard of.

Getting a reversal based upon ineffective counsel because your atty will testify that his decison on legal points was unintentional, not an oversight is just beyond surprising.

How she got a reversal is beyond my comprehension.... I have seen far less effective representation upheld as effective.

I don't have any clue how this all works other than those with the most money, the best attys, best appealate attys and best PR agents win.

:shrug:


Although Judge Deddeh did cite IAC as his reason for granting a new trial in the Sommer case, many of us wondered out loud if the other evidence presented at hearing hadn't influenced his decision - specifically, the perceived juror misconducted about which there was significant testimony.

[Amy]

Gr's real name is Rivers, I believe

According to wikipedia, his name is Rivera:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geraldo_Rivera

But, according to netglimse, his birth name was Riviera

http://www.netglimse.com/celebs/pages/geraldo_rivera/index.shtml

Don't know any other sources. When I googled, it seemed the other choices was for a singer or band or something.

[Amy]

She's definitely put on some lbs. Too bad no one on her team seems to have noticed and provided her with clothes that fit.

Perhaps she is in denial, and is insulted by anyone suggesting a different size in civilian wear. Or maybe she is like some of the characters showing up on the judge shows--dressed more for the night life (tight clothes, blouses bursting @ the buttons, etc) than for a session in court. Really, some of the people who show up do wear what they would wear to the local fair or the nightclubs. I guess some of the younger folk (cuz most of them are in their early 20's) don't realize there are "dress codes" of sorts for different occasions. IMO

[msgatorslayer]

Is it just me or has the "Pork Rind Princess" been gaining weight while in jail?

Pork Rind Princess= Casey's new Nickname :biggrin:

:lol: I like it!!

Remeber the recent mention of her possibly being bulimic? Think it was on NG. I'd say it was a false rumor. Definately!!!!

[saywhat04]

Perhaps she is in denial, and is insulted by anyone suggesting a different size in civilian wear. Or maybe she is like some of the characters showing up on the judge shows--dressed more for the night life (tight clothes, blouses bursting @ the buttons, etc) than for a session in court. Really, some of the people who show up do wear what they would wear to the local fair or the nightclubs. I guess some of the younger folk (cuz most of them are in their early 20's) don't realize there are "dress codes" of sorts for different occasions. IMO

I guess if I was in charge of the dear little thing, she'd have no vote in the matter. She'd either wear street clothes that fit, or her prison garb. Those would be her choices. :mad:

[101Spots]

I guess if I was in charge of the dear little thing, she'd have no vote in the matter. She'd either wear street clothes that fit, or her prison garb. Those would be her choices. :mad:

If I were in charge of the dear little thing, she wouldn't even get soap.

[desmom]

According to wikipedia, his name is Rivera:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geraldo_Rivera

But, according to netglimse, his birth name was Riviera

http://www.netglimse.com/celebs/pages/geraldo_rivera/index.shtml

Don't know any other sources. When I googled, it seemed the other choices was for a singer or band or something.


I am not sure either. Maybe this will help... http://www.snopes.com/media/celebrity/geraldo.asp

[Sun]

If I were in charge of the dear little thing, she wouldn't even get soap.

I was going to comment, then decided I had better keep my mouth shut. LOL

[adair]

I think what also bothers me is that she outright says, this is not a DP case, period, and that her first motions will be to get the DP off the table. I know, as lay people, many of us will say, @ the beginning of a case---OFF WITH HIS OR HER HEAD!!!!! And, then, thru possibly lawyer type posters on board and/or information from the TH's we learn why a certain case will not be a DP case.

Here, however, NG aside (who DEMANDED the prosecution put DP on the table numerous times) the TH's have time and again said why this should have been a DP case, and I think I have seen links to laws that spell out why this qualifies as a DP case on the boards. And, then, when they found Casey's remains, we were told how the DP could be put on the table--what the time line could be for the state to change its mind for DP, even tho they had decided originally not to.

So, if we, as lay people understand why this qualifies as a DP case, what in the world would motivate this educated, learned, experienced lawyer to out and out declare this is not a DP case?? And, again, THIS IS WITHOUT ACTUALLY READING UP ON THE CASE!!!! Really, you'd think really reading up on the case would put her in a better position to know WHY the DP went on the table. I wonder, as she reads thru all the discovery provided so far, will she still maintain this isn't a DP case? Or, if she actually sees and recognizes why (and I gotta believe she is smart enough to see that) will she con't to blunder on, or will she quietly fade into the woodwork? Even if she can't get the DP off BEFORE the trial, she would be of use during the sentencing phase, so maybe she would stay on for that.

ITA

I wished that one of the reporters would have asked her how old was was Caylee when her life ended? Then asked, does her death certificate say homicide? Follow that up with a question regarding the duct tape..............


jmo

[101Spots]

ITA

I wished that one of the reporters would have asked her how old was was Caylee when her life ended? Then asked, does her death certificate say homicide? Follow that up with a question regarding the duct tape..............


jmo

She couldn't answer because she hasn't read up on the case.

Totally ignorant. Don't know nuttin'. 'Cept the DP is no good.

One trick pony, and I'm not impressed with her trick.

No offense to any pony.

[Amy]

I am not sure either. Maybe this will help... http://www.snopes.com/media/celebrity/geraldo.asp

So, technically, both are correct. :wink:

[adair]

So the court has to let all the obviously guilty criminals go (like Casey, for instance) because no truly ethical attorneys will agree to represent them? That seems unworkable to me.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions


Watching the trial of Joseph Duncan, I took an instant disliking to his attorney (cant remember his name). But as the trial went on I realized that by giving JD the best defense he could, he was insuring that JD would spend the rest of his life in jail.

jmo

[Pruddennce]

Thanks for the link. Interesting read all the way thru. If I've read it before, I've forgotten, lol.

Some things I noticed--

On 8/25, page 2253. She tells the PI that the father was in KY, but died in a car wreck. Supposedly there was a will and/or trust made w/Cindy and George trustees in case anything ever happened to Casey. So, guess all this would only come in play when Caylee was say, 18 or older? Oh, and his family is in Italy, and we sure wouldn't want to bother them @ this time. Wonder if she tho't to have someone to contact the family in Italy after Caylee was ID'd? See, everyone wants to know who Caylee's daddy is--and he can be traced back thru the will or trust or whatever that must be in the A's house somewhere. Probably in that bottomless drawer w/the baby daddy's obit and nanny's contact information, among other things.

Then, same date, pg 2254, Casey says after she could not find Caylee and the babysitter on her own, she came home and told her parents. Now, to just read that, one would think that one day (well, day 31?) that Casey says, OMG, I'm not getting anywhere w/my investigation. I need to go home to mom and dad (ex-le) so they can help me find my abducted baby. It should have read the MGMX searched and found the MX and dragged her home, and only after some time did MGMX learn the C/V was missing.

On 7/17--pg 2262-the PI writes that MX initiated the 911 call @ the instruction (or insistance, however it was worded) of the MGMX. He talks about the 911 tapes being released to media, but must not have listened to them himself, otherwise he could have heard that all the 911 calls were initiated by Cindy, AND the change of info (from stolen car to kidnapped baby) was ALSO started by Cindy, w/Casey getting on the line when the dispatcher wanted more info.

But, for all the way that Casey and Cindy were trying to put Casey in a good light, this document sure does not paint a nice, rosy, innocent picture of the MX--Casey Anthony.

I did read that Casey @ one point told Cindy to not talk for her, or she'd never get her story out. :biggrin:

my bold......

yes, which IMO was the most disturbing portion of that interview.

Casey tells the EXACT same story she told LE, complete with her reference to working at Universal, with PAY STUBS to prove it, that LE had it all wrong. AND: thruout that entire interview, Cindy sat their and furthered her lies by SAYING NOTHING, no correction, no interruption; this was August....LE, as well as CASEY HERSELF substantiated she did not work there in the first 24 hours.

but there it is....back to square one....the same lie, which by now, of course, the Blanchard Park story has already been delivered to LE by none other than Cindy herself.

the fascinating part of this case, and which I find incredulous, is this:

Cindy, not once in her pressers states with conviction, that Caylee was dropped off at Sawgrass and ask, did anyone see this happen, did anyone see Caylee leave with someone? and when she obtained the new and improved story, Blanchard Park, not once did she say, did anyone see her abducted?

Cindy simply parachutes into the middle of the story, SHE's ALIVE, LOOK FOR HER.

where?

pack of dangerous liars.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence...*

[Pruddennce]

That is what I remember. Can't remember if the email was to a friend blogger (she and S Kraus got off to a pretty good start, IIRC, altho she soon got mad @ him) or to Kathi Belich. Or, it could have been that whomever received the email forwarded to KB. Sticky situation for CA, regardless, and she was quick to claim hackery.


the news reports states it was KB.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18181289/detail.html#-

here is a link to the email about the hairbrush.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18145599/detail.html

typical Anthony stance and now she is very accustomed to lying to the media: SOMEBODY ELSE DID IT. never heard another thing about a hacker and the FBI supposedly investigated.

jeez, wonder what they found. but the issue is, what she deliberately did....withheld Caylee's hairbrush which is why KB turned the emails over to the FBI. we havent seen them all.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[Dick Tracy]

my bold......

yes, which IMO was the most disturbing portion of that interview.

Casey tells the EXACT same story she told LE, complete with her reference to working at Universal, with PAY STUBS to prove it, that LE had it all wrong. AND: thruout that entire interview, Cindy sat their and furthered her lies by SAYING NOTHING, no correction, no interruption; this was August....LE, as well as CASEY HERSELF substantiated she did not work there in the first 24 hours.

but there it is....back to square one....the same lie, which by now, of course, the Blanchard Park story has already been delivered to LE by none other than Cindy herself.

the fascinating part of this case, and which I find incredulous, is this:

Cindy, not once in her pressers states with conviction, that Caylee was dropped off at Sawgrass and ask, did anyone see this happen, did anyone see Caylee leave with someone? and when she obtained the new and improved story, Blanchard Park, not once did she say, did anyone see her abducted?

Cindy simply parachutes into the middle of the story, SHE's ALIVE, LOOK FOR HER.

where?

pack of dangerous liars.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence...*


Hey there Pru, (where ever have you been!)

You mean the same exact story that she told LE and the FBI, and everyone else? The same exact story that LE misconstrued and didn't get right? And then they released everything to the press that Casey said? And oh my God, the press twisted it all up. That same exact story?

Yes. Exactly the same story. And here she is, as if she's telling it the first time, telling the same story, nary word for word.

She says it, they report it word for word, and it's wrong. I mean the tapes speak for themselves.

This girl has some serious problems. IMO, she's stands a snoballs chance in hell of being acquitted of murder. And those aren't good chances.

[legalmania]

Hey Caylee I've been working real hard this weekend and forgot to dedicate a song to you. I was looking up at the sky tonight and saw a shooting star was that you? If it was looked like you were having fun, this is a song from a movie you might have watched. Miss you and justice is yours baby girl.

----------------
Now playing: Elton John - Circle Of Life (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/elton_john/track/circle_of_life)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[desmom]

One year ago today...........June 8, 2008


Casey and Caylee leave Ricardo’s apartment late morning after spending the night. Ricardo talked to Casey later in the day. She was at home. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1643158/Morales-Ricardo---Statement

Text messages between Casey and Amy: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1772101/AH-and-KC-Text-Messages

Amy to Casey: Not doing as good now. I totally broke down at work. That car was the only thing in my life that was mine. I have no home that is my own. I don’t even sleep in my own bed. My car was my thing. (My note - Amy wrecked her car on June 7)

Casey to Amy 06/08 4:16 p.m.: Are you going to be ok?

Amy to Casey: I have to be. I have to work. I’m just going to have to do it.

Casey to Amy 06/08 4:18 p.m.: Please call me if you need and talk. Definitely call me when you get off.

Amy to Casey: Will do. I'm closing now. . . But I should be done by 11. I’ll call on my walk home.

Casey to Amy 06/08 4:20 p.m.: Sounds good love. Hang in there!

Casey to Amy 06/08 7:03 p.m.: You hanging in there?

Amy to Casey: Yeah. I got it together. I just needed to get out of cry mode.

Casey to Amy 06/08 7:05 p.m.: I'm so proud of you love!

Casey to Amy 06/08 10:03 p.m.: I'm heading to bed but message me when you get back to the boys house. I love you girl! Hugs.

Amy to Casey: We are home. The boys helped me close. They are great.

Casey to Amy 06/08 11:26 p.m.: Good! Take it easy hun.

Amy to Casey: Will do. Love you tons!

Casey to Amy 06/08 11:27 p.m.: Love you too! I’ll call you in the morning.

Amy to Casey: Looking forward to it.

[desmom]

Text message from Amy to Casey on June 8: Not doing as good now. I totally broke down at work. That car was the only thing in my life that was mine. I have no home that is my own. I don’t even sleep in my own bed. My car was my thing. (My note - Amy wrecked her car on June 7)

I feel for Amy. Her landlord sold the house she was renting, she was sleeping on a friend's couch and totaled her car. Then Casey told her the story about G & C giving Casey the house and Amy could live with her and Caylee. On June 17, Amy sent a text to Casey asking for the address because she was going to the post office to do an address change.

Talk about kicking someone when they are down. With a friend like Casey, Amy did not need enemies.

I hope things have turned around for Amy.

jmo

[Amy]

Text message from Amy to Casey on June 8: Not doing as good now. I totally broke down at work. That car was the only thing in my life that was mine. I have no home that is my own. I don’t even sleep in my own bed. My car was my thing. (My note - Amy wrecked her car on June 7)

I feel for Amy. Her landlord sold the house she was renting, she was sleeping on a friend's couch and totaled her car. Then Casey told her the story about G & C giving Casey the house and Amy could live with her and Caylee. On June 17, Amy sent a text to Casey asking for the address because she was going to the post office to do an address change.

Talk about kicking someone when they are down. With a friend like Casey, Amy did not need enemies.

I hope things have turned around for Amy.

jmo

Yep, steal her money, steal her checks, then provide a lie for housing arrangements. What a friend!!!

And, all that I love you!!! in the texts. For pete's sake, it's all I can do to actually get a message typed and sent (without erasiing it, that's a bummer!!!!) I can't see typing in the love you thing every time. I know the kids these days are into "loving" every one they come in contact with, but geeesh!!!!

[Sun]

Good morning desmom. I need to go back and re-listened to Amy's interview with LE, as my memory of her is very faded. Was her somewhat "homeless" sitauation mostly due to Casey telling her that she could move into the Anthony home with Casey? ...I mean that Amy had money to go on vacation to PR, so she wasn't completely too broke to find another rental somewhere.

[Sun]

I have a hard time understanding Amy and Casey's relationship. It does seem as if Casey "used" Amy horribly.

[desmom]

Good morning desmom. I need to go back and re-listened to Amy's interview with LE, as my memory of her is very faded. Was her somewhat "homeless" sitauation mostly due to Casey telling her that she could move into the Anthony home with Casey? ...I mean that Amy had money to go on vacation to PR, so she wasn't completely too broke to find another rental somewhere.

Amy's landlord sold her house she was renting. Amy talks about her housing situation beginning on page 3 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1642949/Huizenga-Amy---Statement

As for the PR trip...IIRC, they stayed with someone's family in PR. (JP's? Ricardo's?) Amy and Casey text back and forth about tickets, flights etc in early May. page 11 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1772101/AH-and-KC-Text-Messages Wouldn't the airline would require payment at that time of the reservation?

Amy probably had her monthly rent, but it would be the $$$ it requires to get a new rental...security deposits, utility hook up fees, etc.

jmo

[Amy]

Amy's landlord sold her house she was renting. Amy talks about her housing situation beginning on page 3 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1642949/Huizenga-Amy---Statement

As for the PR trip...IIRC, they stayed with someone's family in PR. (JP's? Ricardo's?) Amy and Casey text back and forth about tickets, flights etc in early May. page 11 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1772101/AH-and-KC-Text-Messages Wouldn't the airline would require payment at that time of the reservation?

Amy probably had her monthly rent, but it would be the $$$ it requires to get a new rental...security deposits, utility hook up fees, etc.

jmo

IIRC, Casey put the tickets on Cindy's charge card, and the others were to pay her back. (Wonder if they would be writing a check to Cindy or giving the cash to Casey for her to hand over to Cindy snicker, snicker.) What a way to get a big load of cash!!! 3 ticket would be costing what? A couple of hundred bucks? (I don't know, I don't fly so have no idea about cost, except that sometimes they have "specials.")

Another thing about the PR trip I am still curious about. Casey had expressed interest in going, but was thwarted by the need for somewhere for Caylee to stay. I can't remember if Casey had approached the A's about keeping her, if she told them about the proposed trip.

But, didn't the others go @ a time that Casey no longer had to worry about Caylee? She was free, no strings, and IIRC, new bf TonE was going to be gone part of that time. It just seems weird that, after making a fuss, she didn't go. She could have con't the phone contact w/Cindy, still telling her how Caylee is asleep, @ the nanny's. Cindy wouldn't have known if she was right next door, or in another country.

[Sun]

IIRC, Casey put the tickets on Cindy's charge card, and the others were to pay her back. (Wonder if they would be writing a check to Cindy or giving the cash to Casey for her to hand over to Cindy snicker, snicker.) What a way to get a big load of cash!!! 3 ticket would be costing what? A couple of hundred bucks? (I don't know, I don't fly so have no idea about cost, except that sometimes they have "specials.")

Another thing about the PR trip I am still curious about. Casey had expressed interest in going, but was thwarted by the need for somewhere for Caylee to stay. I can't remember if Casey had approached the A's about keeping her, if she told them about the proposed trip.

But, didn't the others go @ a time that Casey no longer had to worry about Caylee? She was free, no strings, and IIRC, new bf TonE was going to be gone part of that time. It just seems weird that, after making a fuss, she didn't go. She could have con't the phone contact w/Cindy, still telling her how Caylee is asleep, @ the nanny's. Cindy wouldn't have known if she was right next door, or in another country.

Sure wish we could see all of Cindy's CC statements and bank account statements to see just how much money Casey was stealing (or was allowed to use). I did see a handwritten list of some things that Lee had made, ...but would love to see "official statements."

[desmom]

IIRC, Casey put the tickets on Cindy's charge card, and the others were to pay her back. (Wonder if they would be writing a check to Cindy or giving the cash to Casey for her to hand over to Cindy snicker, snicker.) What a way to get a big load of cash!!! 3 ticket would be costing what? A couple of hundred bucks? (I don't know, I don't fly so have no idea about cost, except that sometimes they have "specials.")

Another thing about the PR trip I am still curious about. Casey had expressed interest in going, but was thwarted by the need for somewhere for Caylee to stay. I can't remember if Casey had approached the A's about keeping her, if she told them about the proposed trip.

But, didn't the others go @ a time that Casey no longer had to worry about Caylee? She was free, no strings, and IIRC, new bf TonE was going to be gone part of that time. It just seems weird that, after making a fuss, she didn't go. She could have con't the phone contact w/Cindy, still telling her how Caylee is asleep, @ the nanny's. Cindy wouldn't have known if she was right next door, or in another country.

IMO, Casey did not buy anyone's tickets with Cindy's credit cards. I think it is another Anthonyism.

Text Messages between Amy and Casey: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1772101/AH-and-KC-Text-Messages

Amy to Casey 5/07: Right. Should we call the airline about booking? It would be easier if we can all get our own tickets.

Casey to Amy 5/07 10:59 a.m.: Oh, I completely agree. If anything as long as we buy them around the same time we should be OK with our seats. I think we could call the airline and get them adjusted after the fact. As long as we sit together I don't care. Ha ha.

page 23

Casey to Amy 5/14 8:49 a.m.: It's official. As long s we take our trip within the first 2 weeks of July I'm set. I just got my vacation cleared.

Amy to Casey: So the earliest JP can leave is the 8th. Cand you do the 8th through the 15th?

Casey to Amy 5/14 5:53 p.m.: I can.

page 44

Amy to Casey: JP and Ric have their tix. I called my dad again so hopefully I have mine soon. Wanted to make sure you were in the loop cause I wasn't.

Casey to Amy 5/30 3:35 p.m.: I knew about Ric. I'll get mine this weekend then.

[farrahrani]

IIRC, Casey put the tickets on Cindy's charge card, and the others were to pay her back. (Wonder if they would be writing a check to Cindy or giving the cash to Casey for her to hand over to Cindy snicker, snicker.) What a way to get a big load of cash!!! 3 ticket would be costing what? A couple of hundred bucks? (I don't know, I don't fly so have no idea about cost, except that sometimes they have "specials.")

Another thing about the PR trip I am still curious about. Casey had expressed interest in going, but was thwarted by the need for somewhere for Caylee to stay. I can't remember if Casey had approached the A's about keeping her, if she told them about the proposed trip.

But, didn't the others go @ a time that Casey no longer had to worry about Caylee? She was free, no strings, and IIRC, new bf TonE was going to be gone part of that time. It just seems weird that, after making a fuss, she didn't go. She could have con't the phone contact w/Cindy, still telling her how Caylee is asleep, @ the nanny's. Cindy wouldn't have known if she was right next door, or in another country.

I could very easily see how this would have screwed Casey up, if she no longer had to worry about Caylee at the time. Though I am sure IIRC, that Caylee was still with us at that time.

If Casey insisted on taking Caylee, and she was already gone, Cindy would have had a fit, and demanded info, and demanded to speak to the baby all the time. If she couldn't get hold of Casey, she would have just started tracking down the friend's families until she got one of their cell phone numbers and started comparing notes. "Hi, this is Casey's mom, can you tell me how Caylee is? I haven't seen her in days and I want to be sure she is getting enough rest, food, blahblahbalh" "Oh, she isn't' HERE, Casey said she was with you/the nanny/Joe Blow/whomever"

My wouldn't THAT have been an interesting convo. Though I'm sure that was before the murder.

IMO

[margaritaville]

IIRC, Casey put the tickets on Cindy's charge card, and the others were to pay her back. (Wonder if they would be writing a check to Cindy or giving the cash to Casey for her to hand over to Cindy snicker, snicker.) What a way to get a big load of cash!!! 3 ticket would be costing what? A couple of hundred bucks? (I don't know, I don't fly so have no idea about cost, except that sometimes they have "specials.")
Another thing about the PR trip I am still curious about. Casey had expressed interest in going, but was thwarted by the need for somewhere for Caylee to stay. I can't remember if Casey had approached the A's about keeping her, if she told them about the proposed trip.

But, didn't the others go @ a time that Casey no longer had to worry about Caylee? She was free, no strings, and IIRC, new bf TonE was going to be gone part of that time. It just seems weird that, after making a fuss, she didn't go. She could have con't the phone contact w/Cindy, still telling her how Caylee is asleep, @ the nanny's. Cindy wouldn't have known if she was right next door, or in another country.


Today you can get round trip tickets for $238.00
on Cheaptickets.com


Still makes me wonder why Casey didn't go....
Why didn't she fake an e-mail that she needed to be some where and have her parents watch Caylee???

Never made sense to me!! She did it for other things....

[desmom]

Today you can get round trip tickets for $238.00
on Cheaptickets.com


Still makes me wonder why Casey didn't go....
Why didn't she fake an e-mail that she needed to be some where and have her parents watch Caylee???

Never made sense to me!! She did it for other things....


IMO, because Casey never bought a ticket. Maybe Cindy didn't have a visa/mastercard or they were maxed out by the Mother of the Year.

[Sun]

Anyone think that Casey misses being able to use a cell phone? Misses sending and receiving txtmsgs?

[trich]

<snipped to address>

It's a hoot, isn't it? The more they lie to improve their image, the worse they end up looking. They leave the impression they're bad characters AND liars. :laugh:

It is not an impression it is the TRUTH....IMO

[JHP]

I have a hard time understanding Amy and Casey's relationship. It does seem as if Casey "used" Amy horribly.

I think Amy was just too nice and Casey picked up on that and used it to her full advantage.
ONE of the things I find so horrid about Cindy is when she took the money from Caseys wallet when they were with LE. That was Amys money and Cindy knew it. I don't think Cindy ever paid Amy back. They entire family belongs behind bars IMO.

[trich]

Today you can get round trip tickets for $238.00
on Cheaptickets.com


Still makes me wonder why Casey didn't go....
Why didn't she fake an e-mail that she needed to be some where and have her parents watch Caylee???

Never made sense to me!! She did it for other things....


Caylee was already dead by then ......I think she would have had too much to explain to Cindy and George....
Yes she could have said the Nanny had her but I think maybe Cindy would have demanded to see her at that point if they knew Casey was going to PR.

[desmom]

I think Amy was just too nice and Casey picked up on that and used it to her full advantage.
ONE of the things I find so horrid about Cindy is when she took the money from Caseys wallet when they were with LE. That was Amys money and Cindy knew it. I don't think Cindy ever paid Amy back. They entire family belongs behind bars IMO.

Cindy was probably working under the Finder's Keepers mentality.

jmo

[haveaniceday]

Anyone think that Casey misses being able to use a cell phone? Misses sending and receiving txtmsgs?

She is reading law books now LOL

[Unleashed]

New thread for Monday.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13177102#post13177102

[toadii]

From my notes (as my computer sits in the closet) I have Casey to Amy texts only starting after noon:

12:27pm What time do you work today?

12:29pm Howre you feeling today?

12:31pm The saddness will surpass. Glad youre not sore.

12:35pm Yeah i know that feeling. What time are you off tonight?

12:39pm Alright cool. Im staying at the boys tonight so we can all hangout.

3:36pm Caylee just pooped in her potty for the first time!

3:43pm Sorry. Proud momma moment


???? In casey code speak, it is apparent that her proud parent moment "surpassed"

[JHP]

Cindy was probably working under the Finder's Keepers mentality.

jmo


I'm sure that was it. But it sure makes her look pretty yukky. Her Granddaughter was "missing" and she's stealing stolen money from her daughter. Such class those Anthonys:mad:.

[Ladyhawk]

Today you can get round trip tickets for $238.00
on Cheaptickets.com


Still makes me wonder why Casey didn't go....
Why didn't she fake an e-mail that she needed to be some where and have her parents watch Caylee???

Never made sense to me!! She did it for other things....

IMO she didn't go with them because one of the people going didn't like her and she knew he didn't like her and she's not the type to hang with someone that can see through her lies and someone who openly expresses their dislike of her.

[bchand]

IMO she didn't go with them because one of the people going didn't like her and she knew he didn't like her and she's not the type to hang with someone that can see through her lies and someone who openly expresses their dislike of her.

Did JP Chatt go? I know we've read that he didn't like her.

(Ironic that he works for WFTV.)

[Ladyhawk]

Did JP Chatt go? I know we've read that he didn't like her.

(Ironic that he works for WFTV.)

I think he did and I believe it was his parents house where they stayed. I didn't know he works for WFTV...doing what?

[desmom]

I'm sure that was it. But it sure makes her look pretty yukky. Her Granddaughter was "missing" and she's stealing stolen money from her daughter. Such class those Anthonys:mad:.

The apple does fall far from the tree?

Cindy found the money 6-7 hours after she heard Amy's story about the $$ that disappeared on June 2 during their way to Tone's to get Casey. According to Amy, Cindy said "No honey that money's gone. You'll never see it again." page 32 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1642949/Huizenga-Amy---Statement

jmo

[bchand]

I think he did and I believe it was his parents house where they stayed. I didn't know he works for WFTV...doing what?

According to his page, he is an editor there.

http://web.mac.com/jpchatt/JP/About_Me.html


eta: It does look like his family has a home in Puerto Rico. See the photos section.

[Sun]

IMO she didn't go with them because one of the people going didn't like her and she knew he didn't like her and she's not the type to hang with someone that can see through her lies and someone who openly expresses their dislike of her.

Very well said!

[marshmallow]

If I were in charge of the dear little thing, she wouldn't even get soap.

if I were in charge of her she'd get soap but not one bit of attention.

[*MoonRider*]

Anyone think that Casey misses being able to use a cell phone? Misses sending and receiving txtmsgs?

GM, I know I would. Imagine no computer and no message boards. :sad:
Sitting in a crummy cell with no one to comfort her but herself. Eating bologna and grits every day. No more Fusion and no more sunshine. I for one don't understand why she is putting on the poundage. Most lock up shows I watch, the inmates are very much into working out. Even if it is their own cell. The boredom was be horrendous. Bella Vida Casey.

[sammy62]

Today you can get round trip tickets for $238.00
on Cheaptickets.com


Still makes me wonder why Casey didn't go....
Why didn't she fake an e-mail that she needed to be some where and have her parents watch Caylee???

Never made sense to me!! She did it for other things....

At the bond hearing they asked if she had a passport and they said no. She couldn't fly without one.

[sammy62]

GM, I know I would. Imagine no computer and no message boards. :sad:
Sitting in a crummy cell with no one to comfort her but herself. Eating bologna and grits every day. No more Fusion and no more sunshine. I for one don't understand why she is putting on the poundage. Most lock up shows I watch, the inmates are very much into working out. Even if it is their own cell. The boredom was be horrendous. Bella Vida Casey.

I agree...thats why I think LWOP is a better sentence then Death. Death is too good for her.

[bchand]

At the bond hearing they asked if she had a passport and they said no. She couldn't fly without one.

IIRC you don't need a passport to travel to Puerto Rico.

[*MoonRider*]

Cayle Myspace http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=122459029&blogId=493605827

The site has been deleted: thank you
Caylee's Myspace site has been deleted per the request of the Anthony family. For updates, questions answered, and news on other missing persons cases please go to myspace.com/nationalvigilforhope.


Myspace indicated it can take up to 48-hours for changes to take effect, in the meantime thank you to all of those that had a voice for Caylee and continues to remember a little angel that brought a nation together despite the sad circumstances.
We manage other sites for missing people, but this site was the first and sadly wont be the last but Caylee Marie will always hold a very special place in my heart, other sites are hard to close and say good-bye but at 12:31 this morning this site was the hardest; the e-mail address associated with the site was one in which Casey had and in order to close the site I needed to confirm the request, obviously the delay was due to making changing in those areas so the request could take place, but just for a second I thought it was ironic the delay closing the site a little angel was asking me not to, but such is life.


Thank you all for your support and I just hope the 10,000+ friends that came to love Caylee Marie can find it in all of your hearts to continue to love all the kids who need your voice in order for them to be found too. So take a stand and join the efforts in helping to keep the kids safe and help to bring home the missing- together we can all make a difference if only we work together instead of ripping each other apart.

Thanks again,
Michelle A. Bart

[msgatorslayer]

IIRC you don't need a passport to travel to Puerto Rico.

No, you don't. I just watched the visit Puerto Rico tourism commmercial lastnight.