Friday, May 29, 2009 #1

[Lapis]

I guess they do things differently in Florida... Here in California, the few times I've had to be at depositions, lawyers for ALL sides are there.. Not all asking questions, but all are there observing...

All attorneys have to be noticed but they can waive their appearance. In NJ we do not have depositions in criminal cases but in civil cases if I have a client who I know has limited funds, I may waive my appearance for a witness who I know based on the facts of the case can't cause any harm to my client. For example, I represented a small pigment supplier in an environmental exposure case. He was self insured. I waived my appearance in the depositions of the paper towel supplier. By contrast in cases where an insurance company is paying my bills, I attend every deposition, every motion, even if my client is not directly affected by the deposition or motion. JMO

[JHP]

I think we decided earlier today that child is much older now -- like 19 or into his/her 20's. The article saying she had a 9 year old was written in the 90's.


Thank you so much, thats so much better than a 9yo.

[gaelicpeas]

with regards to the Ted Bundy comment....

This is all JMO. Cindy made a comment in an early interview about the deaths of a couple of family dogs. I will have to search for that interview, so JMO.

Then we have KioMarie's testimony that this school area was a burial ground for family pets.

We know that psychopaths have a history of early "killings"... mainly of pets.

Anyway.. just wanted to toss this out there for discussion.

[Lapis]

with regards to the Ted Bundy comment....

This is all JMO. Cindy made a comment in an early interview about the deaths of a couple of family dogs. I will have to search for that interview, so JMO.

Then we have KioMarie's testimony that this school area was a burial ground for family pets.

We know that psychopaths have a history of early "killings"... mainly of pets.

Anyway.. just wanted to toss this out there for discussion.

IIRC the pets they buried were things like hampsters which IIRC have a very limited life span especially with children as their primary caregivers. JMO

[really3997]

Don't forget your law books and pork rinds the next time. How is the gang at Starbucks?

They are doing fabulous. busy little squirrels if you ask me

[gaelicpeas]

[QUOTE=Lapis;13152215]IIRC the pets they buried were things like hampsters which IIRC have a very limited life span especially with children as their primary caregivers. JMO[/QUOE]I agree that KioMarie mentioned hamsters. However, in a very early interview, Cindy mentioned that a couple of their dogs had died rather suddenly. I have to go look for this interview, so for now, I will just say JMO.

[CelticDawn]

with regards to the Ted Bundy comment....

This is all JMO. Cindy made a comment in an early interview about the deaths of a couple of family dogs. I will have to search for that interview, so JMO.

Then we have KioMarie's testimony that this school area was a burial ground for family pets.

We know that psychopaths have a history of early "killings"... mainly of pets.

Anyway.. just wanted to toss this out there for discussion.


Yep...Id like to know about these earlier deaths of Anthony pets....or any of Caseys close friends pets for that matter....


Only thing is in the psycho cases where these entities have killed animals and graduated to humans....it is STILL a rarre thing for them to kill one of their OWN!!!

this casey is a prototype for something.....what, I am not so sure yet!!

[Imperfect4]

I guess they do things differently in Florida... Here in California, the few times I've had to be at depositions, lawyers for ALL sides are there.. Not all asking questions, but all are there observing...

Casey's team of attorneys and the Anthonys are trying real hard to simply ignore the civil case. But it isn't going away. Quite the opposite, it has gathered an impressive amount of steam. John Morgan's no slouch. I think before all is said and done, Casey's attorneys and her parents will regret being so disrespectful and dismissive of the civil suit.

[ttcRider]

IIRC the pets they buried were things like hampsters which IIRC have a very limited life span especially with children as their primary caregivers. JMO

My parents were always 'in charge' of funeral arrangements of our small pets when they died. I could just hear my mom now.. WTH are you going with dead Petie!? :scared: GO WASH YOUR HANDS!!

[JHP]

I agree. I think we're going to find out that Andrea is truly awesome. I hate to see Casey benefit from her talents! And yes, the trial just became a very interesting prospect. Much as I don't want Andrea on Casey's side, I do look forward to seeing her in action :wink:

I'm thankful she is there too. It's going to be extremely hard for Casey to appeal after she's convicted on the grounds of ineffective counsel with her on board.
Plus I think Baez will not be able to pull too much crap.

JMO

[gaelicpeas]

Yep...Id like to know about these earlier deaths of Anthony pets....or any of Caseys close friends pets for that matter....


Only thing is in the psycho cases where these entities have killed animals and graduated to humans....it is STILL a rarre thing for them to kill one of their OWN!!!

this casey is a prototype for something.....what, I am not so sure yet!!
Yeah... there are several hinky death-related things in this case. There are these pet deaths... then there is the supposed death of Caylee's father around her 2nd birthday.. and then there is this miscarriage on Valentine's Day in 2007, I believe....

[CelticDawn]

And potatoes too! :laugh: I think the best one was Cindy comparing it to her refrigerator though.

Not only would my family disown me but I WOULD DISOWN ME if I EVER allowed a refrigerator to smell THAT BAD.....The ONLY other time I can even think of a refrigerator smelling so bad that public health officials just duct taped it shut and put them out by the curb for major cleanup to take straight to the landfil was right after the Katrina flood......

WERE THESE PEOPLE THAT NASTY THAT THEY LET a refrigerator get THAT BAD???

If so.....THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THEM TOO!!!!!

[Imperfect4]

I tend to agree, although "how to make chloroform" is interesting if the amounts found in the car are sizeable. In any case, the searches aren't what stand out to me. Not reporting your child for a month after she's been missing and, in the meantime, carrying on like she did. . .well, that would something I couldn't get beyond. Adding everything else in, all the items traced back to the house, the car smell, the cadaver dogs, the LIES - all of it. There wouldn't be (and isn't) any room for reasonable doubt. JMO but I just can't imagine how any reasonable person on a jury could look at all this and conclude anything but Casey being at fault. :shrug:

ITA. Her culpability will be impossible, imo, to get around. That's why I think the defense HAS to present some story as to the impact of 22 years lived in the House of Anthony. It's the only way, imo, to generate even a little sympathy for Casey.

[sunstar]

ITA. That is exactly what happened. I believe she was killed at home, put in the back yard and then, per the neighbors account, she backed her car into the driveway and put Caylee in the trunk. I do believe it went down as you described. And there was nothing smart about that.

I actually hope she does get LWOP. Death is too quick. She needs to live out the rest of her life getting her just deserts in a real prison, without special treatment, and living in the general population with others like her. I don't think she will be liked at all by the other inmates. She'll pay her dues there. That's my hope.

On the other hand, I can't see how her new attorney is going to solicit any remorse for Casey in terms of sparing her life. Casey is a lot like Chris Coleman. I just posted about him over on that thread because someone on TV did a personality profile on him. Casey, like him, feels nothing for anyone. She doesn't have feelings unless they are involved with how she is going to be affected. She's a psychopath, imo, and is therefore capable of throwing caylee out like trash. But, as I heard tonight from this same profiler, psychopaths are not necessarily smart.

I just pray to God that she doesn't, for any reason, walk. OMG - that would be abosolutely horrific if she doesn't pay for that precious little girl's life.

for Caylee, little angel - :rose:

I still believe that's how it went down, and you're so right, psychopaths aren't necessarily smart. I'm watching the repeat of NG's show tonight and heard the same thing just being said about Coleman. He and Casey do seem to be so much alike in that the crimes weren't thought out although the alleged perps (him and Casey) seems to believe they had planned them perfectly. I don't think Casey will be acquitted but I do think she'll get LWOP, just because some jurors might not see Caylee's murder as heinous enough for the DP, or Lyons might get one of them to believe in her "redemption" message. MOO

[sunstar]

Not only would my family disown me but I WOULD DISOWN ME if I EVER allowed a refrigerator to smell THAT BAD.....The ONLY other time I can even think of a refrigerator smelling so bad that public health officials just duct taped it shut and put them out by the curb for major cleanup to take straight to the landfil was right after the Katrina flood......

WERE THESE PEOPLE THAT NASTY THAT THEY LET a refrigerator get THAT BAD???

If so.....THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THEM TOO!!!!!

I know!!! That's exactly why I can't fathom her even saying something like that. Anyone who has encountered a dead body, even a short time, indoors in a climate-controlled environment, wouldn't think of that comparison. I sure wouldn't want to eat at her house!! :scared: MOO

[gaelicpeas]

Not only would my family disown me but I WOULD DISOWN ME if I EVER allowed a refrigerator to smell THAT BAD.....The ONLY other time I can even think of a refrigerator smelling so bad that public health officials just duct taped it shut and put them out by the curb for major cleanup to take straight to the landfil was right after the Katrina flood......

WERE THESE PEOPLE THAT NASTY THAT THEY LET a refrigerator get THAT BAD???

If so.....THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THEM TOO!!!!!lol.... well, Annie Downing says this family is basically OCD about cleaning house.

But, nothing for nothing, I must admit that over my lifetime, there have been at least several times when I have discovered some really bad stuff in my frig.. despite my cleaning habits!

[djmsmom]

July 1st. IIRC Jesse's dad was afraid she was there to actually plant something.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0904/08/ng.01.html

about 1/3 of the way down the page.

eta: He was afraid she was there to grab something.

But the minute he told me that, I just had this chill that maybe she was there to grab something from that bathroom

I know this is way out there, but maybe the hairs that dr. lee found in the trunk came from jesse's brush???

[Imperfect4]

lol.... well, Annie Downing says this family is basically OCD about cleaning house.

But, nothing for nothing, I must admit that over my lifetime, there have been at least several times when I have discovered some really bad stuff in my frig.. despite my cleaning habits!

Honestly, that house is crammed full of so much STUFF, they must spend night and day cleaning. Just moving all that STUFF out of the way to clean would consume hours at a time.

[JHP]

Honestly, that house is crammed full of so much STUFF, they must spend night and day cleaning. Just moving all that STUFF out of the way to clean would consume hours at a time.

Thats what I was just going to post. They have way too much clutter to be too ocd about cleaning. They just don't go together. I had wondered if Cindy had contacted her ocd cleaning tendency about June16.

[sunstar]

I know this is way out there, but maybe the hairs that dr. lee found in the trunk came from jesse's brush???

It wouldn't surprise me if Casey tried to frame him in some way like that, but his hair is fairly short and even if he used a brush it seems she might have a hard time collecting hairs from it. :shrug: MOO

[MrsHudson]

They can try to do that, but nothing ties Jesse to Caylee's murder except the unfortunate circumstance that he happens to know Casey. Wow, it will be a slam dunk for the defense if they try to frame Jesse for this... NOT!:sneaky:

I agree. There's not a chance in the world that a jury will think Jesse killed Caylee. Not a chance! It's ridiculous. It's only going to make the jury very,very, very angry at Casey and her lawyers.

[lizzard]

Not only would my family disown me but I WOULD DISOWN ME if I EVER allowed a refrigerator to smell THAT BAD.....The ONLY other time I can even think of a refrigerator smelling so bad that public health officials just duct taped it shut and put them out by the curb for major cleanup to take straight to the landfil was right after the Katrina flood......

WERE THESE PEOPLE THAT NASTY THAT THEY LET a refrigerator get THAT BAD???

If so.....THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THEM TOO!!!!!

IIRC, Cindy was described as a clean freak, or words to that effect. So how does she know? Same way George knew what the memorial smelled like without ever going there??

More lies?

[MrsHudson]

Thanks for explaining Cindy's "need to find Caylee" on her 3rd 911 call - I agree with you she was only thinking of herself and not the torment the child could be going thru.

Everyone thought Geregos would put up a baseless defense for Peterson also but he just took his mil. $$$$ and ran without even putting up a fight. Just all talk. I think this "team" will blame the LE of so much mess and try to leave out Nanny, as much evidence as possible and not even try to present a case.

I agree. The defense is going to question the forensics, demonize LE, call the credibility and reputations of all Casey's friends into question and try to confuse the jury at every turn regarding the facts. It's going to be gruesome to witness and it's going to be tedious (to make the jury fall asleep.) Then they will get Lyons to beg for her life. I don't think they will accuse Jesse or Amy and I don't think they will drop the Nanny story. They will handle the nanny story by pointing out how many ZFG's there are in Fla and talking about all the leads LE did not follow. Just my opinion.

[Heyes]

I agree. And no surprise. How long could any normal human being, especially a man who I *think* came into this thing with good intentions, put up with Cindy Anthony?

I have no idea why he decided that teaming with these people might be a good idea. I'm sure really is right, he may not last very much longer. The depositions might have just been his big, *Oh Shi%* moment.

[sunstar]

Yes, she might but I wonder if Lyons has ever tried a case where a mother killed her child in cold blood and tossed her out much the same way you'd chop up a broken chair and toss it in the fireplace. Or throw out an old stack of magazines because they were in your way.

Also, Caylee was extremely adorable, cute, sweet and innocent. I don't know if Lyons is a mother but, because it is about an innocent child, maybe the redeption message won't work. It really woudn't on me. It might work for me in a case where the defendent had feelings and was capable of remorse and was truly sorry for what they did. But, in this case, I'm hoping that the jury will want to see justice for the beautiful innocent 2 year old more than they want redemption for the monster that killed her.

I agree! To be quite honest, I could see the 'redemption message' working better if the defendant were a poor, inner-city kid from a broken home, who got caught up in drugs and with the wrong people, and committed some lesser random crime. Casey is from an upper middle-class home, who has had everything handed to her on a silver platter it seems, even to the point of still living with both parents, getting away with lying to them about her having a job, stealing from them (and her grandparents), and had a beautiful two year old daughter who the state believes she murdered so she could be with her boyfriends and party. I don't even see how the message applies in this case! MOO

[Imperfect4]

Thats what I was just going to post. They have way too much clutter to be too ocd about cleaning. They just don't go together. I had wondered if Cindy had contacted her ocd cleaning tendency about June16.

ITA. That quantity of STUFF and cleaning OCD don't mesh. It might be all neat and tidy appearing, but not so clean. Good thought about those tendencies ... both Cindy AND George have them ... right around 6/16.

[MrsHudson]

snipped...
I think we will see the defense stick to "she didn't do it, there really was a nanny or somebody else did it and anyway you can't prove a thing and Cindy says there was no dead body smell and if there was it was because of the body someone put in the car at the impound yard and we are sure so and so saw Caylee at the mall after the Pros claim she was killed".

Then the big Lyon can mop up as best she can. She can show everyone how good she really is and claim a great victory against all odds.

I agree. The forensics will come under ferocious attack, the car at the impound, other leads, Casey's friends are party animals don't believe what they say....that's the best way to go. To say Jesse did it will make the jury furious. At the penalty phase is when Lyon throws Cindy under the bus.

[lizzard]

I know this is way out there, but maybe the hairs that dr. lee found in the trunk came from jesse's brush???

Not out there at all, djmsmom. She wanted to take a shower there, another poster made the same suggestion earlier.

[Imperfect4]

I agree! To be quite honest, I could see the 'redemption message' working better if the defendant were a poor, inner-city kid from a broken home, who got caught up in drugs and with the wrong people, and committed some random crime. Casey is from an upper middle-class home, who has had everything handed to her on a silver platter it seems, even to the point of still living with both parents, getting away with lying to them about her having a job, stealing from them (and her grandparents), and had a beautiful two year old daughter who the state believes she murdered so she could be with her boyfriends and party. I don't even see how the message applies in this case! MOO

And then there's the question of psychopaths. Can they redeem themselves? I don't think so. They don't feel anything. They are empty vessels, out to satisfy their own urges only. They're not even treatable, much less redeemable, from what I understand.

[really3997]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/05/caylee-anthony-who-cleaned-up-the-makeshift-memorial-.html


did anyone see this. I know everyone was wondering about how George was dressed.

Bristow also talked to a dressed-up George Anthony, who was just back from a job interview. He said June 16 will be a hard day, because it marks a year since he last saw Caylee. But he also plugged the Caylee Marie Anthony Foundation. He showed off one of the stuffed bears the foundation donates to local police departments to give to children enduring tough times.

So did Kidfinders fire him

[MrsHudson]

I agree! To be quite honest, I could see the 'redemption message' working better if the defendant were a poor, inner-city kid from a broken home, who got caught up in drugs and with the wrong people, and committed some lesser random crime. Casey is from an upper middle-class home, who has had everything handed to her on a silver platter it seems, even to the point of still living with both parents, getting away with lying to them about her having a job, stealing from them (and her grandparents), and had a beautiful two year old daughter who the state believes she murdered so she could be with her boyfriends and party. I don't even see how the message applies in this case! MOO

Not upper middle class though. Casey is a middle class spoiled, lazy waste of space kind of person. I think Lyons will have to choice but to throw Cindy under the bus, talk about Casey's age, stresses in her life, how she was a good mother most of the time. Oh and every person who testifies will be asked if Casey was a good mother and as we know most will say yes.

[seeing_eye]

lol.... well, Annie Downing says this family is basically OCD about cleaning house.

But, nothing for nothing, I must admit that over my lifetime, there have been at least several times when I have discovered some really bad stuff in my frig.. despite my cleaning habits!

I would think almost everyone has overlooked some food in their refrigerator to the point of rotting at one time or another. But IMO there is no way it could ever be confused with human decomposition. No way!!

[MrsHudson]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/05/caylee-anthony-who-cleaned-up-the-makeshift-memorial-.html


did anyone see this. I know everyone was wondering about how George was dressed.

Bristow also talked to a dressed-up George Anthony, who was just back from a job interview. He said June 16 will be a hard day, because it marks a year since he last saw Caylee. But he also plugged the Caylee Marie Anthony Foundation. He showed off one of the stuffed bears the foundation donates to local police departments to give to children enduring tough times.
So did Kidfinders fire him


So I guess this blows the rich family in Conn story eh? I hope he gets a real job actually.

[ttcRider]

And then there's the question of psychopaths. Can they redeem themselves? I don't think so. They don't feel anything. They are empty vessels, out to satisfy their own urges only. They're not even treatable, much less redeemable, from what I understand.

I agree, in brain scan comparisons there is a huge difference on activity when exposed to different emotional triggers. They can't 'be fixed'. IMO

[really3997]

So I guess this blows the rich family in Conn story eh? I hope he gets a real job actually.

Oh who the heck is going to hire him...

[lizzard]

Well, that is very interesting if what you are saying is true. According to what I've hear about the new attorney, she is a very feeling being and extremely dedicated. Maybe she will have so much empathy for Caylee and inner outrage at Casey that she will go for a plea deal - LWOP if she comes clean.

This woman seems like the type that won't stand for the tricks and deceit that JB fell for. Also, as she more and more familiarizes herself with the case, she's going to know that Casey will be convicted. A please deal would make sense. Also, wheras JB catered to Casey and was literally eating out of her hand, this new woman will be the reality check I think. And I'm not so sure JB really believes CA is innocent, although I believe he is very interested in getting her clothes off. JMO.


I've always found that a woman can generally tell when another woman is trying to con her. I've always preferred male bosses for that very reason. I think with Lyon at the helm, a lot of the BS will stop, and we're going to see a plea. I'll take that, tho I'd rather see her fry.

[cassidy]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/05/caylee-anthony-who-cleaned-up-the-makeshift-memorial-.html


did anyone see this. I know everyone was wondering about how George was dressed.

Bristow also talked to a dressed-up George Anthony, who was just back from a job interview. He said June 16 will be a hard day, because it marks a year since he last saw Caylee. But he also plugged the Caylee Marie Anthony Foundation. He showed off one of the stuffed bears the foundation donates to local police departments to give to children enduring tough times.

So did Kidfinders fire him

Let's keep in mind that George is not always truthful. :)
JMO

[gaelicpeas]

Honestly, that house is crammed full of so much STUFF, they must spend night and day cleaning. Just moving all that STUFF out of the way to clean would consume hours at a time.
um.... I agree.. I have rented several 30-yard dumpsters over the last few years to get rid of stuff. I must say that we all tend to gather stuff over a lifetime. Anyway... I am not going to cast my guilty plea based on excess stuff in their home. Just sayin'.... JMO

[MrsHudson]

Oh who the heck is going to hire him...

I :confused:dunno.

[MrsHudson]

:beer: I agree completely (except I think frying is to quick and LWOP would be a worse fate for her)

I prefer LWOP.

[Imperfect4]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/05/caylee-anthony-who-cleaned-up-the-makeshift-memorial-.html


did anyone see this. I know everyone was wondering about how George was dressed.

Bristow also talked to a dressed-up George Anthony, who was just back from a job interview. He said June 16 will be a hard day, because it marks a year since he last saw Caylee. But he also plugged the Caylee Marie Anthony Foundation. He showed off one of the stuffed bears the foundation donates to local police departments to give to children enduring tough times.

So did Kidfinders fire him

Well I'll be ding danged! He WAS on a job interview! I stand corrected. Go George! :thumbup: May you get it and KEEP IT. You need a life, dude.

[cassidy]

I've always found that a woman can generally tell when another woman is trying to con her. I've always preferred male bosses for that very reason. I think with Lyon at the helm, a lot of the BS will stop, and we're going to see a plea. I'll take that, tho I'd rather see her fry.

LWOP would be just for Casey. No more parties, no more dancing, no more TonE's and she can sit around for a lifetime with only memories. Growing old in jail.

JMO

[sunstar]

And then there's the question of psychopaths. Can they redeem themselves? I don't think so. They don't feel anything. They are empty vessels, out to satisfy their own urges only. They're not even treatable, much less redeemable, from what I understand.

Yes, that's another good point! And first, to be "redeemed" one must admit their wrong and be remorseful. Do we see any of that with Casey? I don't! MOO

[gaelicpeas]

Thanks for explaining Cindy's "need to find Caylee" on her 3rd 911 call - I agree with you she was only thinking of herself and not the torment the child could be going thru.

Everyone thought Geregos would put up a baseless defense for Peterson also but he just took his mil. $$$$ and ran without even putting up a fight. Just all talk. I think this "team" will blame the LE of so much mess and try to leave out Nanny, as much evidence as possible and not even try to present a case.You are the first person I have ever heard state that, but I agree that Geragos took his money and ran. Absolutely no defense case at all.

As for this case... I agree, the defense will attack all the body farm evidence and anything else that has any semblance of impropriety.

[really3997]

Well I'll be ding danged! He WAS on a job interview! I stand corrected. Go George! :thumbup: May you get it and KEEP IT. You need a life, dude.


All I can say it Office Space and the Guy with the stapler..anyone see that movie

[Imperfect4]

um.... I agree.. I have rented several 30-yard dumpsters over the last few years to get rid of stuff. I must say that we all tend to gather stuff over a lifetime. Anyway... I am not going to cast my guilty plea based on excess stuff in their home. Just sayin'.... JMO

Of course they're not guilty of anything because of the clutter, lol. It's a simple observation, and flies in the face of reports they're obsessively clean. They appear to be neat. Neat collectors and hoarders.

[seeing_eye]

Well, that is very interesting if what you are saying is true. According to what I've hear about the new attorney, she is a very feeling being and extremely dedicated. Maybe she will have so much empathy for Caylee and inner outrage at Casey that she will go for a plea deal - LWOP if she comes clean.

This woman seems like the type that won't stand for the tricks and deceit that JB fell for. Also, as she more and more familiarizes herself with the case, she's going to know that Casey will be convicted. A please deal would make sense. Also, wheras JB catered to Casey and was literally eating out of her hand, this new woman will be the reality check I think. And I'm not so sure JB really believes CA is innocent, although I believe he is very interested in getting her clothes off. JMO.

I also think the new attorney is a very feeling being and extremely dedicated - feeling for criminals and dedicated to helping them get away with their crimes. I think she has an attitude similar to Jane What'sHerName and totally anti-prosecution and anti-LE.

[gaelicpeas]

Yes, she might but I wonder if Lyons has ever tried a case where a mother killed her child in cold blood and tossed her out much the same way you'd chop up a broken chair and toss it in the fireplace. Or throw out an old stack of magazines because they were in your way.

Also, Caylee was extremely adorable, cute, sweet and innocent. I don't know if Lyons is a mother but, because it is about an innocent child, maybe the redeption message won't work. It really woudn't on me. It might work for me in a case where the defendent had feelings and was capable of remorse and was truly sorry for what they did. But, in this case, I'm hoping that the jury will want to see justice for the beautiful innocent 2 year old more than they want redemption for the monster that killed her.Although I agree with everything you posted, I would imagine in the 130 murder cases, of which 30? or so were death penalty cases, that Ms. Lyon has defended a number of not-so-pleasant folks. JMO

[sunstar]

I prefer LWOP.

So do I and think that's exactly what she'll get. MOO

[ttcRider]

All I can say it Office Space and the Guy with the stapler..anyone see that movie

We need to talk about your TPS reports...:laugh:

[sunstar]

I also think the new attorney is a very feeling being and extremely dedicated - feeling for criminals and dedicated to helping them get away with their crimes. I think she has an attitude similar to Jane What'sHerName and totally anti-prosecution and anti-LE.

Jane Weintraub? If so, I'll agree. :smile:

[True2Blues]

I would think almost everyone has overlooked some food in their refrigerator to the point of rotting at one time or another. But IMO there is no way it could ever be confused with human decomposition. No way!!

I agree, another of Cindy's 'not thought out' statements.

[gaelicpeas]

I agree. The defense is going to question the forensics, demonize LE, call the credibility and reputations of all Casey's friends into question and try to confuse the jury at every turn regarding the facts. It's going to be gruesome to witness and it's going to be tedious (to make the jury fall asleep.) Then they will get Lyons to beg for her life. I don't think they will accuse Jesse or Amy and I don't think they will drop the Nanny story. They will handle the nanny story by pointing out how many ZFG's there are in Fla and talking about all the leads LE did not follow. Just my opinion.I agree, Mrs Hudson...

[really3997]

We need to talk about your TPS reports...:laugh:

I will have to come in Saturday..Hey at least Cindy has the "flare" down

[gaelicpeas]

I agree! To be quite honest, I could see the 'redemption message' working better if the defendant were a poor, inner-city kid from a broken home, who got caught up in drugs and with the wrong people, and committed some lesser random crime. Casey is from an upper middle-class home, who has had everything handed to her on a silver platter it seems, even to the point of still living with both parents, getting away with lying to them about her having a job, stealing from them (and her grandparents), and had a beautiful two year old daughter who the state believes she murdered so she could be with her boyfriends and party. I don't even see how the message applies in this case! MOOI so agree with your post. Ms Lyon has made her fame defending minorities with horrible life histories. It will not wash in this case, IMO.

[Imperfect4]

So briefly, how did yesterday's hearing go? I did not get a chance to log on.

Nothing got accomplished. Baez is still beating the 12/11 video taping of Casey's reaction horse to freaking death -- no decision on that -- the media has to reply to the Judge with why it should be released. The cell phone records Baez is requesting from those who objected (Kronk, Amy, Jesse) must be re-requested, with appropriate time frames.

Cindy looked like hell. Conway didn't sit near them. Mr. Grund was there and sat behind the prosecution. The new DPQ attorney was introduced. Casey gained more weight. So did Linda KB. Everyone was badly dressed.

Todd Macawhatever went to the podium and continued Jose's whining about the damn video tape.

That's about it.

Any questions? :laugh:

[Pruddennce]

Not upper middle class though. Casey is a middle class spoiled, lazy waste of space kind of person. I think Lyons will have to choice but to throw Cindy under the bus, talk about Casey's age, stresses in her life, how she was a good mother most of the time. Oh and every person who testifies will be asked if Casey was a good mother and as we know most will say yes.

high class, middle class, low class.....

IMO: no class.

:)


IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence...*

[norwood]

I have been reading every one's reactions to the new DP attorney. From what I have been able to find out from our "Who's Who of Attorneys" at the office she is a good, if very theatrical, attorney and she most definitely is an activist. Her tactics would not play in a Texas court, we have the death penalty, use it, and like it down here. Judges do not suffer outside attorneys well here either. They tend to get what we call "hometowned".

Florida has the death penalty, uses it, and seems to like it too. I have my own doubts as to how well she will play in Florida because of her activist stance. Have no idea how any Judge will react to her but she has already stepped over the line of professionalism when she sat at the defence table and actually spoke in court the other day since she has no credentials in Florida and was not actually the approved dp attorney. Judges do not like attorneys trying to run their courts no matter what state they are in.

This is going to be very interesting. Jose will not go away but I am betting he will be sitting in the back of the bus before this is all over. And that bus is going to be chugging down the road rolling right over people with out stopping.

[gaelicpeas]

I would think almost everyone has overlooked some food in their refrigerator to the point of rotting at one time or another. But IMO there is no way it could ever be confused with human decomposition. No way!!true... most of the gross stuff I have discovered in my frig is usually bagged.. it LOOKS horrible, but no smell as it was in a bag.

[MrsHudson]

Nothing got accomplished. Baez is still beating the 12/11 video taping of Casey's reaction horse to freaking death -- no decision on that -- the media has to reply to the Judge with why it should be released. The cell phone records Baez is requesting from those who objected (Kronk, Amy, Jesse) must be re-requested, with appropriate time frames.

Cindy looked like hell. Conway didn't sit near them. Mr. Grund was there and sat behind the prosecution. The new DPQ attorney was introduced. Casey gained more weight. So did Linda KB. Everyone was badly dressed.

Todd Macawhatever went to the podium and continued Jose's whining about the damn video tape.

That's about it.

Any questions? :laugh:

None at all. Fine recap! I feel like I was there! :biggrin:

[Imperfect4]

I agree. The forensics will come under ferocious attack, the car at the impound, other leads, Casey's friends are party animals don't believe what they say....that's the best way to go. To say Jesse did it will make the jury furious. At the penalty phase is when Lyon throws Cindy under the bus.

But while they're busy disposing of all logical explanations for how Casey did the deed, don't they have to come up with one to replace all the evidence they're disputing? I mean, Caylee IS dead, after all. Manner of death: homicide. Can the defense get away with simply disputing evidence and serving up NO explanation for what supposedly happened?

[Dick Tracy]

I tend to agree, although "how to make chloroform" is interesting if the amounts found in the car are sizeable. In any case, the searches aren't what stand out to me. Not reporting your child for a month after she's been missing and, in the meantime, carrying on like she did. . .well, that would something I couldn't get beyond. Adding everything else in, all the items traced back to the house, the car smell, the cadaver dogs, the LIES - all of it. There wouldn't be (and isn't) any room for reasonable doubt. JMO but I just can't imagine how any reasonable person on a jury could look at all this and conclude anything but Casey being at fault. :shrug:

It's possible that she did the chloroform lookup after seeing someones (I think RM) myspace with that Win her Over... with Chloroform photo. I"m not trying to sound foolish here, but IF (and I mean IF) the kid accidently drowned in that pool, Casey freaks out, and then decides on a very unorganized plot to dispose of the body, hope like hell the car gets stolen at the Amscot, and then just stay on the lamb until she could head west to be with the just recently acquired stolen money that she claimed she needed for a "backup plan". Had someone gotten to her within the first 24 hours of this crime, would we have heard the same ZFG story?? When the heck was that concocted? Prior to a murder? Or after an accidental death?

IMO... (just throwing it out there)

[MrsHudson]

That is VERY good to hear! Thank you for posting that.

Best case scenario
Casey is found guilty of first degree murder.
Lyon throws Cindy under the bus without mercy.
Casey get LWOP instead of death penalty.


I almost like the part where Cindy gets her comeuppance best.

[gaelicpeas]

Ewww. . I hope you are wrong but, yeah, could be. I have no familiarity with her at all except seeing her briefly on TV today. Kind of a three minute size-up. What do you know about her? What makes you think she's like that? Cuz. . .don't want to get my hopes up too high by having an very wrong impression.There have been a few in-depth interviews about Ms Lyon posted... I would check the links. She is basically an anti-death penalty activist and believes that all criminals can be redeemed. She is a formidable attorney, very well-versed in law, and has a great record of getting murderers off of death row.

[MrsHudson]

But while they're busy disposing of all logical explanations for how Casey did the deed, don't they have to come up with one to replace all the evidence they're disputing? I mean, Caylee IS dead, after all. Manner of death: homicide. Can the defense get away with simply disputing evidence and serving up NO explanation for what supposedly happened?

I don't know but I do know the defense does not have to prove anything. Maybe some of our more veteran court watchers can answer your question.

[gaelicpeas]

Nothing got accomplished. Baez is still beating the 12/11 video taping of Casey's reaction horse to freaking death -- no decision on that -- the media has to reply to the Judge with why it should be released. The cell phone records Baez is requesting from those who objected (Kronk, Amy, Jesse) must be re-requested, with appropriate time frames.

Cindy looked like hell. Conway didn't sit near them. Mr. Grund was there and sat behind the prosecution. The new DPQ attorney was introduced. Casey gained more weight. So did Linda KB. Everyone was badly dressed.

Todd Macawhatever went to the podium and continued Jose's whining about the damn video tape.

That's about it.

Any questions? :laugh:lol, good summary, except you forgot the part where Kathi Belich questioned Todd Macawhatever after the hearing and got him all flustered and he stormed off and Kathi followed him asking him questions.

[MrsHudson]

There have been a few in-depth interviews about Ms Lyon posted... I would check the links. She is basically an anti-death penalty activist and believes that all criminals can be redeemed. She is a formidable attorney, very well-versed in law, and has a great record of getting murderers off of death row.

I never thought Casey would get the DP, even thought by law she probably deserves it. So if she only gets LWOP I am going to be very happy.

[sunstar]

I so agree with your post. Ms Lyon has made her fame defending minorities with horrible life histories. It will not wash in this case, IMO.

Exactly! I think Casey may be spared the DP, but it's been my feeling that the jury might not recommend it anyway, with or without her. MOO

[really3997]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-caylee-anthony-memorial-052709,0,6943476.story


A real estate agent who has the property listed said the seller did not remove it.

George Anthony told the Orlando Sentinel that a neighbor told him Tuesday the lot was cleared. He didn't know who did it.


What neighbor..the one Casey borrowed the shovel from..the one that heard the argument, the one that fought with protesters. The Dickens...This is a mystery I am wanting to solve...

[Imperfect4]

lol, good summary, except you forgot the part where Kathi Belich questioned Todd Macawhatever after the hearing and got him all flustered and he stormed off and Kathi followed him asking him questions.

lol, forgot about Kathi. I luvs me some Kathi. :wub:

[gaelicpeas]

I never thought Casey would get the DP, even thought by law she probably deserves it. So if she only gets LWOP I am going to be very happy.
I agree.. it will be interesting to see what happens. My guess is that Lyon will put forth a VERY detailed, well-researched motion as to why Casey should not get the death penalty... Her motion will pass, and then she will leave the defense team.. and we will be back to square-one with Jose... JMO

[Dick Tracy]

But while they're busy disposing of all logical explanations for how Casey did the deed, don't they have to come up with one to replace all the evidence they're disputing? I mean, Caylee IS dead, after all. Manner of death: homicide. Can the defense get away with simply disputing evidence and serving up NO explanation for what supposedly happened?

The short answer is: yes they can. Theoretically they can sit on their thumbs and poke and prod at the forensics. When the DNA stuff comes in, they'll explain DNA to the jury, show the results, and then LKB will mostly like have the guy explain his credentials, get him to admit something that will have the TH's on NG all abuzz for about two shows worth, with a stupid headline on NG's ticker - Could TOT MOM walk?

If you remember Geragos in his opening statement, he had the whole story in his hip pocket, and SP was innocent. But his defense case kind of went to hell in a handbag rather quickly, he offered up some weird story about those two guys in the van across the street... etc. And then they rested.

Maybe the money ran out.

[sunstar]

But while they're busy disposing of all logical explanations for how Casey did the deed, don't they have to come up with one to replace all the evidence they're disputing? I mean, Caylee IS dead, after all. Manner of death: homicide. Can the defense get away with simply disputing evidence and serving up NO explanation for what supposedly happened?

They can try it! They can argue that the scientific evidence is tainted ~ LE did a sloppy job, the crime lab is bad, the cadaver dogs' noses were all off, the Body Farm tests are all unproven, someone else had access to the car at the tow yard, Caylee's body wasn't there on Suburban Dr. since the end of June, and LE didn't really look for the "real" ZFG, they just focused in on Casey as the murderer ~ oh and by the way, there is no COD, so just how did Caylee die? :scared: MOO

[norwood]

But while they're busy disposing of all logical explanations for how Casey did the deed, don't they have to come up with one to replace all the evidence they're disputing? I mean, Kaylee IS dead, after all. Manner of death: homicide. Can the defense get away with simply disputing evidence and serving up NO explanation for what supposedly happened?
They don't have to prove their case. It is prosecution's responsibility to prove their case and leave no reasonable doubt. The defense is just going to try and put that reasonable doubt in the head on one juror. They don't care about who did it or justice for the victim or the victim's family They care about winning, period. A home-run is the client walking out of jail and getting them acquitted. A win is a hung jury. Once the big gun lawyers and experts do that they are finished with the case, they have done their job.

In the Scott Peterson trial his attorney Mark G made a fatal error when he popped off in the media that he was going to prove who did it. Huge mistake. And he was really was ill prepared to even try the case.

[sunstar]

I agree.. it will be interesting to see what happens. My guess is that Lyon will put forth a VERY detailed, well-researched motion as to why Casey should not get the death penalty... Her motion will pass, and then she will leave the defense team.. and we will be back to square-one with Jose... JMO

Oh, I'd actually love to see that (Jose)!! :biggrin: And by the time all this happens, Casey's hair will be down past her waist and/or Barack will be running for a 2nd term. MOO

[gaelicpeas]

When the State announced they were seeking the death penalty I had a very strong feeling it was meant to force Baez out of first chair, and only for that reason. They wanted good representation for Casey to avoid appeals. To take A. Lyons out of Illinois all the way to Florida, I have to wonder where in the world is all of this money coming from? Must be a ton of money to leave her job as a professor and suspend representing her own cases for the next few months just for this. She has a "dream team" that is comparable to Spector, OJ, etc. This is ridiculous! I dont care who they hire though. In the end the prosecution might not get the death penalty but Casey will be going to prison!

I think it is so entertaining to see some of her lawyers getting emphatically upset and disgusted with the so called, "lack of evidence".
Good points. As a side note, in the links previously posted about Ms Lyon, she apparently doesn't try cases any more on a routine basis, but she does take on a few cases a year just to "hone her skills".

ETA: and she does these cases pro-bono, apparently.

[norwood]

When the State announced they were seeking the death penalty I had a very strong feeling it was meant to force Baez out of first chair, and only for that reason. They wanted good representation for Casey to avoid appeals. To take A. Lyons out of Illinois all the way to Florida, I have to wonder where in the world is all of this money coming from? Must be a ton of money to leave her job as a professor and suspend representing her own cases for the next few months just for this. She has a "dream team" that is comparable to Spector, OJ, etc. This is ridiculous! I dont care who they hire though. In the end the prosecution might not get the death penalty but Casey will be going to prison!

I think it is so entertaining to see some of her lawyers getting emphatically upset and disgusted with the so called, "lack of evidence".

I think part of the reason the DP was put back on the table was to ensure that Jose would not give Casey mulitple reasons for appeal that just might get her another trial but not the sole reason.

Also, I doubt seriuosly that Lyons is going to give up her teaching job or put any other cases on hold for this one. Lawyers work multiple cases all the time, even big ones.

[Dick Tracy]

I get the impression that Caylee makes it up as she goes along and that's why there is so much contradiction. She weaves one web and then, when caught, begins another until the whole thing is so convoluted you can't any sense in it.

If it was an accident, would she go to her death without admitting it? Someone like her might just do that. Something doesn't sit right with accidental death, though. But, then, i'm looking at it from a "normal" person's eyes, not a narcissist psychopath's.

Probably not. But if the state can convince the jury that this was premeditated, that will go along way towards a conviction.

I do think she has that capability to make it up as she goes along. If you read her statements, word for word, you'll see she double talks, and routinely gives more information in reply to a question posed to her. Anyway, I think she's toast. Wonder what the odds in Vegas will be.

When I die and go to heaven, I'm going to go and find Caylee before I look for anyone else.

[Imperfect4]

I don't know but I do know the defense does not have to prove anything. Maybe some of our more veteran court watchers can answer your question.

I can't follow that logic. Casey was the last person seen with Caylee, according to George Anthony. The person Casey claimed to have handed Caylee off to does not exist. The next time anyone saw Caylee, she was a collection of bones. The prosecution will lay out a complete scenario for exactly how Caylee went from being seen walking out of the house by George in mid-June, to how she was found in mid-December. I don't think the defense disputing forensics and acting as though the "how" of Caylee's murder has nothing to do with Casey and is someone else's problem to solve, is going to cut it with the jury. It wouldn't cut it with me. I couldn't let them off the hook that easily.

[MrsHudson]

snipped

Wasn't George a little dressed up to apply for a job as a security guard. He didn't dress that well for his show biz career with LKL and others. His executive career with KF has been added to his resume'. I think they have been living off Lee, unemployment benefits and what little they can con off the media appearences.

I hope Kathi Belich writes a book about the As.


I agree with all the above. Plus I think they are learning that the KF venture is going to be unprofitable (not a living wage) they are doing it only for their image.

[Dick Tracy]

They can try it! They can argue that the scientific evidence is tainted ~ LE did a sloppy job, the crime lab is bad, the cadaver dogs' noses were all off, the Body Farm tests are all unproven, someone else had access to the car at the tow yard, Caylee's body wasn't there on Suburban Dr. since the end of June, and LE didn't really look for the "real" ZFG, they just focused in on Casey as the murderer ~ oh and by the way, there is no COD, so just how did Caylee die? :scared: MOO

and you just KNOW that's why LKB is there.

[AbbyNormal]

Nothing got accomplished. Baez is still beating the 12/11 video taping of Casey's reaction horse to freaking death -- no decision on that -- the media has to reply to the Judge with why it should be released. The cell phone records Baez is requesting from those who objected (Kronk, Amy, Jesse) must be re-requested, with appropriate time frames.

Cindy looked like hell. Conway didn't sit near them. Mr. Grund was there and sat behind the prosecution. The new DPQ attorney was introduced. Casey gained more weight. So did Linda KB. Everyone was badly dressed.

Todd Macawhatever went to the podium and continued Jose's whining about the damn video tape.

That's about it.

Any questions? :laugh:Nice summary! Better than Reader's Digest condensed version. Wish I'd seen this before I watched all that gobbledee gook. A few of those lawyers like the sound of their own voice. I am appreciating Judge Strickland more every day :wub:

Hi everybody!

[Imperfect4]

Probably not. But if the state can convince the jury that this was premeditated, that will go along way towards a conviction.

I do think she has that capability to make it up as she goes along. If you read her statements, word for word, you'll see she double talks, and routinely gives more information in reply to a question posed to her. Anyway, I think she's toast. Wonder what the odds in Vegas will be.

When I die and go to heaven, I'm going to go and find Caylee before I look for anyone else.

Bolding mine. You just made me cry, Dick Tracy. :crying:

[sunstar]

I do believe they did actually look for a ZFG. They will have a very hard time proving the FBI was sloppy in collecting the evidence, and the FBI crime lab screwed up. Then they have to explain the entire story Casey came up with about the kidnapping. For someone who talked so little she sure painted herself a deep hole with what she has said.

I was only offering a possible defense argument ~ I know LE did try to believe Casey's story but sadly for her, it was only a big lie. I agree she dug her own deep hole with her way too detailed statements, even including how many cell phone plans ZFG had, how many times she'd moved, and whatnot. And the jury won't be able to overlook one important fact ~ Casey never reported Caylee missing. :wink: MOO

[Dick Tracy]

I remember hearing that Casey said that ZG lived at the sawgrass apartments. I think I also remember hearing that ZG actually did put in a rental application at the sawgrass. There was speculation that Casey saw ZG there that day putting in that app and that's where Casey conceived of the whole nanny thing. I'm not sure if that is true but, if it is, it narrows the possibility of it being some "other" ZFG to miniscule. IMO


ITA, however RM claims to have heard the name Zanny as the Nanny's name back when he was doi uh, dating tot mom.

[lizzard]

It's possible that she did the chloroform lookup after seeing someones (I think RM) myspace with that Win her Over... with Chloroform photo. I"m not trying to sound foolish here, but IF (and I mean IF) the kid accidently drowned in that pool, Casey freaks out, and then decides on a very unorganized plot to dispose of the body, hope like hell the car gets stolen at the Amscot, and then just stay on the lamb until she could head west to be with the just recently acquired stolen money that she claimed she needed for a "backup plan". Had someone gotten to her within the first 24 hours of this crime, would we have heard the same ZFG story?? When the heck was that concocted? Prior to a murder? Or after an accidental death?

IMO... (just throwing it out there)
my bold

We've already got dead squirrels and maggots, let's leave the lambs out of it.

[sunstar]

Nothing got accomplished. Baez is still beating the 12/11 video taping of Casey's reaction horse to freaking death -- no decision on that -- the media has to reply to the Judge with why it should be released. The cell phone records Baez is requesting from those who objected (Kronk, Amy, Jesse) must be re-requested, with appropriate time frames.

Cindy looked like hell. Conway didn't sit near them. Mr. Grund was there and sat behind the prosecution. The new DPQ attorney was introduced. Casey gained more weight. So did Linda KB. Everyone was badly dressed.

Todd Macawhatever went to the podium and continued Jose's whining about the damn video tape.

That's about it.

Any questions? :laugh:
(bolding mine)

God bless him for being there for Caylee! :smile:

[Dick Tracy]

Bolding mine. You just made me cry, Dick Tracy. :crying:

Awwh..... i'll pm you some kleenex there dear.

[Imperfect4]

Nice summary! Better than Reader's Digest condensed version. Wish I'd seen this before I watched all that gobbledee gook. A few of those lawyers like the sound of their own voice. I am appreciating Judge Strickland more every day :wub:

Hi everybody!

Hi Abby. :smile:

[really3997]

good night all:seeya:

[sunstar]

Have a good night everybody! :seeya: Since it's already Saturday I'll see you all later today.

[Imperfect4]

good night all:seeya:

Good-night. Ear plugs? Check!

[kjt200]

If he got a judgement against Cindy any money she made fron the foundation would be accessible funds for a judgement. Boy that would really kill her. I wonder if Morgan can file a class action suit against all the Anthony's and Jose?



If only that were true, but it's not. A nonprofit 501 (C) (3) organization is a legal entity. The foundation itself would have to be sued for them to be liable. Anything else is a personal suit and would not apply to any asset from the foundation. And most nonprofits have board of directors or errors and omissions insurance to cover liability in the event that they are sued for something that does not involve blatant criminal activity.

Sorry for the answer, but it's the way nonprofits work. It's like owning a tire business that is incorporated and it gets sued for making bad tires. It's the corporation at risk, not the people. This is one of the reasons. why groups and businesses incorporate in the first place.

[Imperfect4]

Have a good night everybody! :seeya: Since it's already Saturday I'll see you all later today.

Good-night! Still Friday in my neck of the woods.

[really3997]

Good-night. Ear plugs? Check!

yes putting them in as we speak:thumbsup:

[lizzard]

Have a good night everybody! :seeya: Since it's already Saturday I'll see you all later today.

:seeya: sunstar and really. Sweet dreams.

I'll be going soon too.
Night all.

[Dick Tracy]

I do believe they did actually look for a ZFG. They will have a very hard time proving the FBI was sloppy in collecting the evidence, and the FBI crime lab screwed up. Then they have to explain the entire story Casey came up with about the kidnapping. For someone who talked so little she sure painted herself a deep hole with what she has said.

No, not really. In their defense case in chief, they don't have to mention Zanny at all.

They could call Cindy Anthony up to the stand, point the finger at her and make her admit to the 15 round fight on the night of the 15th of June, that she tried to kill Casey, by choking her. Enraged, Casey flies out of the house with a screaming Caylee under her arm. She throws Caylee into the back seat, goes screeching down the street. When she calms down, she realizes Caylee isn't making noise in the back anymore. She stops the car whereever, and discovers that when she threw little Caylee back there, the kid somehow died of a blow to the head, or broke her neck when she flung her in the backseat. They can even make this story up. It may not be the truth, and it sounds far fetched of course, (all my stuff sounds a little far fetched, especially on a Friday Night) but they could offer it up as an alternative theory, hoping that someone on that jury buys it.

Remember OJ and the defense BS about the drug cartel hit on Nichole?

[Imperfect4]

Yea, we get to see the 10AM Florida court hearings at 7AM then go back to bed wondering what the heck was accomplished. Do you think Ms. Lyons will tell Casey the facts of life?

I think she will, yes.

[Dick Tracy]

Once they had assembled the skeletal remains and examined them, would not a broken neck have been detected?

If they were able to find all of the bones that make up that portion of the skeletal area of the body, probably so, but I'm not 100% sure. As I understand it, the bones were scattered around pretty well. that will be an interesting part of the trial to me. I'm sure they've already looked at that, based on the internet search neck breaking. And we probably would have heard about it by now. I think.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

Yea, we get to see the 10AM Florida court hearings at 7AM then go back to bed wondering what the heck was accomplished. Do you think Ms. Lyons will tell Casey the facts of life?

She'll be explaining the facts of death.

Penalty.

[AbbyNormal]

If they were able to find all of the bones that make up that portion of the skeletal area of the body, probably so, but I'm not 100% sure. As I understand it, the bones were scattered around pretty well. that will be an interesting part of the trial to me. I'm sure they've already looked at that, based on the internet search neck breaking. And we probably would have heard about it by now. I think.

Were there any witnesses to Cindy trying to choke Casey? Lee told somebody, but was he there? Something happened, the neighbor heard the ruckus. What if Casey tried to choke Cindy? (Just thinking and typing outloud.......gotta go tuck in the youngest, brb).

[seeing_eye]

Ewww. . I hope you are wrong but, yeah, could be. I have no familiarity with her at all except seeing her briefly on TV today. Kind of a three minute size-up. What do you know about her? What makes you think she's like that? Cuz. . .don't want to get my hopes up too high by having an very wrong impression.

According to an article on http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2005/11/behind_the_musi.html the Angel of Death Row grew up in the 60s. While Andrea was leading walkouts and organizing demonstrations, her Father was leading the family on peace marches and her Mother was putting on plays by black activists.

I believe she is anti-authority. I realize there are always a few bad apples in any barrel, but Angela says, "To my surprise, even though I've been doing this a long time and I've tried 130 murder cases myself, I can't think of a single case where there hasn't been some form of prosecutorial misconduct. I expected to find it sometimes, I didn't expect to find it all the time. I was surprised."

I don't believe that. I believe most LE and prosecutors are conscientious in their jobs and do the best jobs they can do.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

snipped with respect

It could be that G and C are covering up for Casey.

Guaranteed.

[kjt200]

I agree! To be quite honest, I could see the 'redemption message' working better if the defendant were a poor, inner-city kid from a broken home, who got caught up in drugs and with the wrong people, and committed some lesser random crime. Casey is from an upper middle-class home, who has had everything handed to her on a silver platter it seems, even to the point of still living with both parents, getting away with lying to them about her having a job, stealing from them (and her grandparents), and had a beautiful two year old daughter who the state believes she murdered so she could be with her boyfriends and party. I don't even see how the message applies in this case! MOO

I've read many times about the "upper middle class" thing. I disagree. The Anthony home is a basic tract home and only one adult worked on a routine basis. Before they cashed in on the death of their grand child they were middle class at best, certainly not upper middle class.

My own opinion of course. Thanks for listening. Be well.

[Imperfect4]

I'm off to bed, folks. Good night. :smile:

[AbbyNormal]

I'm off to bed, folks. Good night. :smile:Noooooooooooooo :sad: Say it isn't so.........sigh.

Good night, pleasant dreams

[legalmania]

Probably not. But if the state can convince the jury that this was premeditated, that will go along way towards a conviction.

I do think she has that capability to make it up as she goes along. If you read her statements, word for word, you'll see she double talks, and routinely gives more information in reply to a question posed to her. Anyway, I think she's toast. Wonder what the odds in Vegas will be.

When I die and go to heaven, I'm going to go and find Caylee before I look for anyone else.

That made me think of a song written some time ago.

----------------
Now playing: Blood, Sweat & Tears - And When I Die (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/blood_sweat_tears/track/and_when_i_die)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[Dick Tracy]

Boy oh boy - if that is what happens this whole family is going to hell in a hand basket. Casey already there - C, G and L to follow.

I read some letters on another board - there was a link to an email back and forth between Cindy and her brother Rick. He thinks Casey is undeniable guilty and that Cindy is profoundly stupid. It could be that G and C are covering up for Casey. It's the only way I can see a George, a former cop, suddenly do a 180 turn around from his honest confession that there was human decomp smell in the car. He had no doubt about it. Not to mention the fact that they asked for immunity and, iifc, got it. Immunity for what exactly?

G and C early on said alot of truthful things to LE. They weren't trying to cover up for Casey. Then they started to slowly contradict themselves, and wanted immunity in case what they had said earlier came back to haunt them later on. To this day, I don't think they know what really happened. Only Casey does. They just know she did it.

[AbbyNormal]

True but when you compare Casey Anthony with some poor kid who grew up in a street gang, has been shot and survived twice, was introduced to drugs at age 6, whose mother is a drug addict and father committed suicide in front of his eyes well. . . . .

A kid like that never had a chance. Plus, once taken out of that environment, rehabilitation is possible. Human emotion might be buried in fear or rage but it is there and it exists and can be worked with, nurtured, etc. More than likely the kid in that scenario, with a normal brain, would be capable of accessing emotion for others and seeing the errors of his ways. Redemption is possible.

With Casey - she is incapable of feeling anything for anyone and redemption is not possible with her. There is no capacity to change or feel remorse. She isn't wire that way.

JMO of course :smile:

It wouldn't surprise me if Casey's childhood was also horrendous, just in a different way. I think the house of Anthony harbors a lot of secrets. If Casey was not born a sociopath, then "nurture" in that home finished the job.

Most of me agrees that a sociopath cannot be redeemed, but part of me wants to believe there is always hope.

[AbbyNormal]

G and C early on said alot of truthful things to LE. They weren't trying to cover up for Casey. Then they started to slowly contradict themselves, and wanted immunity in case what they had said earlier came back to haunt them later on. To this day, I don't think they know what really happened. Only Casey does. They just know she did it. They were a handful from the beginning :scared:

It bothers me that when they picked up the car, they didn't call the police right then -- before they even left the tow yard. Instead they went home and searched the backyard?

Even if they knew Casey was capable of something so awful, why in the world were they searching the backyard?

Maybe I should wait for the book to come out? I'm bad about reading the end of books first, and then going back and learning the story.

[Explorer]

I wonder if casey anthony killed some of the family pets when she was younger.

[Dick Tracy]

They were a handful from the beginning :scared:

It bothers me that when they picked up the car, they didn't call the police right then -- before they even left the tow yard. Instead they went home and searched the backyard?

Even if they knew Casey was capable of something so awful, why in the world were they searching the backyard?

Maybe I should wait for the book to come out? I'm bad about reading the end of books first, and then going back and learning the story.

Yes, and then they went back to work!! Even two to three days later after the 15th, some of tot mom's friends showed up at the house for a "pow wow" with the Anthony's, and as I recall, they were all trying to figure out who ZFG was, or Zanny the Nanny. No one knew, not even Cindy. I think then Cindy realized Casey had done something wrong and started to cover up for Casey, shortly after her LE interviews on or about the 28th of July.

GA was just being GA, a worried grandfather who knew nothing except the car smelled like a dead body.

Can't explain the backyard searches.

[AbbyNormal]

I wonder if casey anthony killed some of the family pets when she was younger.I've wondered that too.
I've also wondered if Cindy ever killed any of Casey's pets to "teach her a lesson".

[Explorer]

Isnt that a trait of a serial killer?

[Explorer]

I've wondered that too.
I've also wondered if Cindy ever killed any of Casey's pets to "teach her a lesson".

That would be horrific if it was true.

[Explorer]

If casey anthony ever gets out of prison I would be very afraid for any more children that she had.

[AbbyNormal]

Yes, and then they went back to work!! Even two to three days later after the 15th, some of tot mom's friends showed up at the house for a "pow wow" with the Anthony's, and as I recall, they were all trying to figure out who ZFG was, or Zanny the Nanny. No one knew, not even Cindy. I think then Cindy realized Casey had done something wrong and started to cover up for Casey, shortly after her LE interviews on or about the 28th of July.

GA was just being GA, a worried grandfather who knew nothing except the car smelled like a dead body.

Can't explain the backyard searches. You're right, I forgot they went back to work. This family is so bizzare, I want to look away and I can't!

There is more to George. He just seems mild compared to Cindy's antics. Have you listened to any of the Albatross commentaries on youtube? I'm thinkin' what she's thinkin' (except we can't talk about it here -- yet).

[AbbyNormal]

Isnt that a trait of a serial killer?
Yeah, I've heard that before. When the childhood is looked at many of them started by killing small animals. No conscience, no empathy, no remorse.

[Explorer]

This family has to be the absolute worst family that I have ever heard of.

[Explorer]

Yeah, I've heard that before. When the childhood is looked at many of them started by killing small animals. No conscience, no empathy, no remorse.

kinda like the BKT killer.

[lizzard]

You're right, I forgot they went back to work. This family is so bizzare, I want to look away and I can't!

There is more to George. He just seems mild compared to Cindy's antics. Have you listened to any of the Albatross commentaries on youtube? I'm thinkin' what she's thinkin' (except we can't talk about it here -- yet).

:no::wink:

[Explorer]

Ther is no doubt in my mind that casey anthony would kill again.

[Explorer]

I really think shes loving this its everything she wants attention and feeling that shes outsmarting authority. Yep shes loving this.

[AbbyNormal]

That would be horrific if it was true.
There are two things that Casey said in some of her early police interviews that I belive are true. #1) When the whole family gave the June 9th date, Casey said it had been 31 days since she had last seen Caylee. (Casey also gave the June 9th date -- but the 31 days was correct). #2) Casey said she was more afraid of her mother than anyone.

Something. There is something very wrong in that home.

jmo

[AbbyNormal]

kinda like the BKT killer.I didn't follow that case, only what made the headlines.

[cherish]

Ther is no doubt in my mind that casey anthony would kill again.

Well apparently she lies and steals repeatedly.

[ttcRider]

kinda like the BKT killer.

American Justice just covered BTK again this past week.. It is the most chilling thing to watch.

[Explorer]

There are two things that Casey said in some of her early police interviews that I belive are true. #1) When the whole family gave the June 9th date, Casey said it had been 31 days since she had last seen Caylee. (Casey also gave the June 9th date -- but the 31 days was correct). #2) Casey said she was more afraid of her mother than anyone.

Something. There is something very wrong in that home.

jmo

It reminds me of that movie Phsyco where Norman Bates was so controlled by his crazy mother.

[AbbyNormal]

:no::wink:Hi Lizzie. If/when the albatross theory is shown as evidence, is it still off limits? Do you know?

I understand it's not fair to speculate randomly about something so awful, but it sure would explain a lot about the strange dynamics in the hand family.

[Explorer]

American Justice just covered BTK again this past week.. It is the most chilling thing to watch.

Can anyone else see similarities?

[Explorer]

Is anyone still up? I don't want to be posting away to myself. :smile:

Im here just posting about old horor movies and the bkt and stuff.

[AbbyNormal]

It reminds me of that movie Phsyco where Norman Bates was so controlled by his crazy mother.It's been a long time since I've seen that. Wasn't she long dead and he was still pretending to be her?

An interesting movie about evil having no conscience whatsoever is Virtuosity. Russell Crowe is a composite serial killer used in police training and is brought to life. Denzel Washington has to outsmart him somehow.

[ttcRider]

Can anyone else see similarities?

Well both of them fooled everyone around them that nothing was going on or wrong.
They both seem to enjoy the limelight, no signs of upset or remorse in the courtroom...
He is a very scary evil person, he seemed 'mean'... she just seems sleazy.
He also has a very hi IQ from what I remember... her.. not so high..
I guess thats where the similarities end. haha

what do you think?

[Explorer]

I just think that this case is getting worse and worse. I really hope they dont let her out. I think she and her family are very sick and dangerous and destructive people.

[AbbyNormal]

Is anyone still up? I don't want to be posting away to myself. :smile:Hi Annie, I'm on west coast time too :biggrin:

[Explorer]

Well both of them fooled everyone around them that nothing was going on or wrong.
They both seem to enjoy the limelight, no signs of upset or remorse in the courtroom...
He is a very scary evil person, he seemed 'mean'... she just seems sleazy.
He also has a very hi IQ from what I remember... her.. not so high..
I guess thats where the similarities end. haha

what do you think?

Your right:biggrin:

[Explorer]

No one who knows this story would hire George Anthony. He has proven himself to be a liar, a man with absolutely no integrity.

What happened to the rich family in Conn.?

[ttcRider]

Is anyone still up? I don't want to be posting away to myself. :smile:

Hey sweet Annie! I'm still here for a while. :biggrin:

[AbbyNormal]

I just think that this case is getting worse and worse. I really hope they dont let her out. I think she and her family are very sick and dangerous and destructive people.Yes, agreed. Do you think the rest of the Anthony's will face charges eventually?

[norwood]

I am still here. Took a nap this afternoon and now not sleepy.

I think Casey is probably a sciopath , BTK is a phychopath. There is a slight difference. Not much. I don't think either can be rehabilitated any more than I think a pedophile can be. They are born wired wrong or something is missing.

Cindy and Casey are both most likely sociopaths and that is why they can't get along with each other.

[Dick Tracy]

You're right, I forgot they went back to work. This family is so bizzare, I want to look away and I can't!

There is more to George. He just seems mild compared to Cindy's antics. Have you listened to any of the Albatross commentaries on youtube? I'm thinkin' what she's thinkin' (except we can't talk about it here -- yet).

George early on wanted to just find out what the heck was happening, he was pretty forthcoming with information to LE about Casey and the arrangements and her stealing ALOT of money. He just truly wanted to find his granddaughter, but in the back of his mind, all that time, he can't get the smell of the car out of his mind, and the fact that it was abandoned. He's putting two and two together, and it's all adding up. That smell. The gas cans in the back of the car. Chasing Casey down the freeway. No Caylee. That smell. The pool ladder. Something horrible has happened. My daughter has done something very bad.

[AbbyNormal]

Oh goodie! Stay up with me and parrrrrrtaaaaaaaay!!!!!!!!

I'm trying to catch up here.You're a good girl, I just jumped on in, lol.

[Explorer]

Yes, agreed. Do you think the rest of the Anthony's will face charges eventually?

I think LE is doing a great job. They probably never had a case like this so there are going to be real careful. I dont think they are going to charge the rest of the a's though.

[ttcRider]

I am still here. Took a nap this afternoon and now not sleepy.

I think Casey is probably a sciopath , BTK is a phychopath. There is a slight difference. Not much. I don't think either can be rehabilitated any more than I think a pedophile can be. They are born wired wrong or something is missing.

Cindy and Casey are both most likely sociopaths and that is why they can't get along with each other.

I agree, but I would also add Narcissistic. Theres a find line between sciopath and narcissist. haha IMO :wink:

[Explorer]

I am still here. Took a nap this afternoon and now not sleepy.

I think Casey is probably a sciopath , BTK is a phychopath. There is a slight difference. Not much. I don't think either can be rehabilitated any more than I think a pedophile can be. They are born wired wrong or something is missing.

Cindy and Casey are both most likely sociopaths and that is why they can't get along with each other.

When you look at casey anthony there is NOTHING behind her eyes. She looks blank as if shes in an alternate universe. VERY SCAry.

[Explorer]

What happened with the family from Conn. was that a big fat lie too?

[AbbyNormal]

I am still here. Took a nap this afternoon and now not sleepy.

I think Casey is probably a sciopath , BTK is a phychopath. There is a slight difference. Not much. I don't think either can be rehabilitated any more than I think a pedophile can be. They are born wired wrong or something is missing.

Cindy and Casey are both most likely sociopaths and that is why they can't get along with each other.That is interesting. I didn't know there was a difference between socio & physcho.

Cindy and Casey did have that weird exchange at the jail where they each said how much they were just alike.

[cherish]

What is the albatross theory?

[norwood]

What is the albatross theory?

I am wondering that too.

[AbbyNormal]

I wish someone would interview those Dickens people again. They were the BEST.Mr. Dickens! I can still hear his voice in my head, "Cindy is eeeeeeevil". They were cute those two, the way they related to each other.

[Dick Tracy]

I hate when I keep refreshing the old page, and it doesn't update, and then I realize it's rolled over....

One thing I wanted to say - there is one event in the timeline of things that is the most upsetting to me about Casey Anthony - and it is that on the 20th of June, she was at Fusian, partying, getting drunk, with her glamour girl makeup on, having the boys buy her drinks, and just working it hard - and all during that time -

Caylee was wrapped up in a Winnie the Pooh Blanket stuffed in a trash bag rotting away in the trunk of that car, maybe even by then, with duct tape strapped around her head, covering her mouth.

It just sickens me.

I rest my case.

[AbbyNormal]

I am wondering that too.
Oh, sorry, my bad! She posts commentaries on youtube about the Anthony case. It's a bit rambling, but she makes some very well thought out points. For the sake of brevity, I will say that I think Caylee has George's ears. Here is a link to her videos:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=albatross234&view=videos

[Explorer]

Little Caylee looked so much like cindy. I guess that was a problem for you know who.

[norwood]

That is interesting. I didn't know there was a difference between socio & physcho.

Cindy and Casey did have that weird exchange at the jail where they each said how much they were just alike.

I have had a few discussions with the person that does our physch evals for us. They said there is a slight difference between the two. They also said that something can also trigger a sociopath and they go into a full psychopathic rage sometimes.

The way they explained a phychopath to me was that they can not feel anything. Not sorrow, not love, not grief, nothing. Some find that they do "feel" something when they watch someone die. They do fantasize about what they are going to do and then afterwards will either go back to the body to "relive" that feeling and/or take a souvenir so they can remember or relive the act.

A sciociopath while they don't really feel anything either does want all of the attention, they want to be the star and they think they do no wrong. It is always someone else's fault if something goes wrong. They use people, manipulate, and when they are of no further use to them discard those people from their lives. They do not tend to murder as quickly as a psychopath does but if they do they will blame the person or thing they killed. The victim caused them to have to do it.

[AbbyNormal]

George early on wanted to just find out what the heck was happening, he was pretty forthcoming with information to LE about Casey and the arrangements and her stealing ALOT of money. He just truly wanted to find his granddaughter, but in the back of his mind, all that time, he can't get the smell of the car out of his mind, and the fact that it was abandoned. He's putting two and two together, and it's all adding up. That smell. The gas cans in the back of the car. Chasing Casey down the freeway. No Caylee. That smell. The pool ladder. Something horrible has happened. My daughter has done something very bad.

There is more to George......jmo

[Explorer]

I so agree. In one of the pics from the latest hearing she is chilling. Her eyes are big and vacant. As Impf says, they look like shark's eyes. So creepy.

I really think shes gone in the head if ya know what i mean.

[cherish]

Oh, sorry, my bad! She posts commentaries on youtube about the Anthony case. It's a bit rambling, but she makes some very well thought out points. For the sake of brevity, I will say that I think Caylee has George's ears. Here is a link to her videos:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=albatross234&view=videos

Oh, Oh, the true crime writer, I've seen some of those videos. I'll have to go back and check them out.

My connection is so bad tonight, I'd better check to see if I've paid my bill.

[norwood]

I can't understand why they haven't up 'til this point! I hope they will.

I don't think the DA's office will waste their time or resources to charge and prosecute them at this point. If the A's do something else that is pretty spectacular then maybe. It is going to cost and has already cost a fortune to handle the case of Casey. They do have limited resources and many, many other cases. The Anthony's are just not that important to them to expend those resources on. They will concentrate all of their energy on Casey.

[norwood]

I understand what you're saying and I agree with it to a point. But how does this discourage other criminals from lying up a storm. I think ignoring all the LIES the Anthonys spew is just wrong.


They won't ignore them all. They will use some in court I bet if for no other reason than to show the jury that you can't believe anything they say.

[AbbyNormal]

I hate when I keep refreshing the old page, and it doesn't update, and then I realize it's rolled over....

One thing I wanted to say - there is one event in the timeline of things that is the most upsetting to me about Casey Anthony - and it is that on the 20th of June, she was at Fusian, partying, getting drunk, with her glamour girl makeup on, having the boys buy her drinks, and just working it hard - and all during that time -

Caylee was wrapped up in a Winnie the Pooh Blanket stuffed in a trash bag rotting away in the trunk of that car, maybe even by then, with duct tape strapped around her head, covering her mouth.

It just sickens me.

I rest my case.

It is all very sad. I don't think Caylee spent days in the trunk though. I can't make my mind go there. I think there was seepage from the decomp process. Caylee must have been in the Anthony's backyard to begin with, and moved later.

Casey out partying. I think she may have been celebrating her freedom from Cindy as much as being free from the responsiblities of motherhood? No matter what was on her mind, no one on a jury is going to be able to identify with that behavior.

[Explorer]

On JVM they were discussing the new DP lawyers crying at key points in the trial. Everyone was singing her praises and saying oh shes sooo passionate about her work blah blah blah and one lawyer I think It was Wendy Murphy says "I think she is a master manipulator".

[AbbyNormal]

Oh, Oh, the true crime writer, I've seen some of those videos. I'll have to go back and check them out.

My connection is so bad tonight, I'd better check to see if I've paid my bill.

She is :w00t: Didn't know that!
I am learning a lot tonight

[norwood]

I have said from the beginning, before we even gfound out that the entire Anthony family is a bunch of whack jobs, that no lawyer was going to be able to get past that 31 days. If I was the prosecution I would have a big old poster made with 31 on it and leave it up in the court room if it was allowed by the judge.

31 days.

31 days days and nights

and then it took someone else to call the police and the accussed wanted to know why they would want to talk to her.


31 days can not be explained away.

[norwood]

I am discovering that after a long hard work week and a few glasses of wine I can not type with out typos.

[AbbyNormal]

I have had a few discussions with the person that does our physch evals for us. They said there is a slight difference between the two. They also said that something can also trigger a sociopath and they go into a full psychopathic rage sometimes.

The way they explained a phychopath to me was that they can not feel anything. Not sorrow, not love, not grief, nothing. Some find that they do "feel" something when they watch someone die. They do fantasize about what they are going to do and then afterwards will either go back to the body to "relive" that feeling and/or take a souvenir so they can remember or relive the act.

A sciociopath while they don't really feel anything either does want all of the attention, they want to be the star and they think they do no wrong. It is always someone else's fault if something goes wrong. They use people, manipulate, and when they are of no further use to them discard those people from their lives. They do not tend to murder as quickly as a psychopath does but if they do they will blame the person or thing they killed. The victim caused them to have to do it.

Thank you, that is interesting. Both very scary. It would be nice if people came with warning labels!

[Explorer]

I am discovering that after a long hard work week and a few glasses of wine I can not type with out typos.

I dont have a job or wine and I have tons of typos.

[norwood]

Thank you, that is interesting. Both very scary. It would be nice if people came with warning labels!

They are scary. There have been times when I was working in a law office that defended criminals that I would go straight to the shower when I got home they made me feel so gross. They are very, very scary and are usually very charming people if you don't know what you are dealing with.

[cherish]

I have had a few discussions with the person that does our physch evals for us. They said there is a slight difference between the two. They also said that something can also trigger a sociopath and they go into a full psychopathic rage sometimes.

The way they explained a phychopath to me was that they can not feel anything. Not sorrow, not love, not grief, nothing. Some find that they do "feel" something when they watch someone die. They do fantasize about what they are going to do and then afterwards will either go back to the body to "relive" that feeling and/or take a souvenir so they can remember or relive the act.

A sciociopath while they don't really feel anything either does want all of the attention, they want to be the star and they think they do no wrong. It is always someone else's fault if something goes wrong. They use people, manipulate, and when they are of no further use to them discard those people from their lives. They do not tend to murder as quickly as a psychopath does but if they do they will blame the person or thing they killed. The victim caused them to have to do it.

Interesting, sounds like a fine line. Phychopath sounds like insanity to me, yet the TH's say you can't use an insanity defense since there is premeditation?

[AbbyNormal]

I am discovering that after a long hard work week and a few glasses of wine I can not type with out typos.:biggrin: (I am just old & addled.)

[norwood]

Interesting, sounds like a fine line. Phychopath sounds like insanity to me, yet the TH's say you can't use an insanity defense since there is premeditation?

They are not insane. They are usually smart, some with very high IQ's.

And they are great actors because they live thier lives mimicing what they see as emotion in other people.

[AbbyNormal]

Interesting, sounds like a fine line. Phychopath sounds like insanity to me, yet the TH's say you can't use an insanity defense since there is premeditation?There must be a separate, legal definition -- not just the regular, garden variety, insanity.

[norwood]

There must be a separate, legal definition -- not just the regular, garden variety, insanity.

the legal definition of insanity is someone that is not sane.

[AbbyNormal]

They are not insane. They are usually smart, some with very high IQ's.

And they are great actors because they live thier lives mimicing what they see as emotion in other people.I wonder how old they are when they realize they are not like other people? They must know they are different somehow to even want to mimic emotion.

[AbbyNormal]

It looks like I'm the last man standing. I'll wish you all a good night, and hopefully I'll see you tomorrow.Wondered where you went! Had to scroll up and find out what happened. Goodnight Annie, sleep well.

[Explorer]

I wonder how old they are when they realize they are not like other people? They must know they are different somehow to even want to mimic emotion.

I always wonder how much is environment and how much is genetic.

[norwood]

I wonder how old they are when they realize they are not like other people? They must know they are different somehow to even want to mimic emotion.


That's a good question. Makes you wonder if when they are first put into kindergarten they start seeing that other kids are different. There is a theory that floats around that kids that kill are phychopaths and of course their parents can't handle them.

[AbbyNormal]

the legal definition of insanity is someone that is not sane.:confused: Wouldn't more people be legally insane then? It seems like someone would have to be out of their mind to commit a murder. Or does sane mean rational?

[legalmania]

:confused: Wouldn't more people be legally insane then? It seems like someone would have to be out of their mind to commit a murder. Or does sane mean rational?

There is more to it than that you can't distinguish between right and wrong.

[AbbyNormal]

I always wonder how much is environment and how much is genetic.Me too. There's probably good arguements for each -- and maybe it is a little of both.

[norwood]

I always wonder how much is environment and how much is genetic.

I think it is a combination of both. Some phychopaths and sciociopaths function well in society and never harm other people physically.

With Casey, having been raised by Cindy who shows all the characteristics of a sciociopath herself she never stood a chance of being able to function well with other people for any length of time. The relationship with Jessie Grund shows that she became bored with a "normal" life.

I hope they put the shrink on the stand and have them tell what they have comcluded from examing her. Cindy will probably stroke out right there in the court room if they say she is a sciociopath and her homelife and childhood brought on this behavior.

[Explorer]

I think it is a combination of both. Some phychopaths and sciociopaths function well in society and never harm other people physically.

With Casey, having been raised by Cindy who shows all the characteristics of a sciociopath herself she never stood a chance of being able to function well with other people for any length of time. The relationship with Jessie Grund shows that she became bored with a "normal" life.

I hope they put the shrink on the stand and have them tell what they have comcluded from examing her. Cindy will probably stroke out right there in the court room if they say she is a sciociopath and her homelife and childhood brought on this behavior.

I think thats exactly what will happen. Thats why cindy is fighting tooth and nail.

[AbbyNormal]

That's a good question. Makes you wonder if when they are first put into kindergarten they start seeing that other kids are different. There is a theory that floats around that kids that kill are phychopaths and of course their parents can't handle them. It would take a toll living with anyone that had a neurological peice missing. Are there any commonalities in these families? Or can a child simply be a "bad seed"?

[norwood]

I think thats exactly what will happen. Thats why cindy is fighting tooth and nail.



The only way that Cindy can win this one is if somehow one of the lawyers that works on Casey's case can get her to take a plea deal and never have a trial. At some point she (Casey) had an eval if for no other reason than to assure the court that she is capable of standing trial.

[legalmania]

I think it is a combination of both. Some psychopaths and scociopaths function well in society and never harm other people physically.

With Casey, having been raised by Cindy who shows all the characteristics of a sciociopath herself she never stood a chance of being able to function well with other people for any length of time. The relationship with Jessie Grund shows that she became bored with a "normal" life.

I hope they put the shrink on the stand and have them tell what they have concluded from examining her. Cindy will probably stroke out right there in the court room if they say she is a sciociopath and her homelife and childhood brought on this behavior.


Actually I have read up on sociopaths and Casey nor Cindy do not come close to fitting the profile.

[AbbyNormal]

Actually I have read up on sociopaths and Casey nor Cindy do not come close to fitting the profile.How do they deviate from the typical profile?

[norwood]

The board is running slow for me.

Had to go out and come back in.

Legal I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. The person that does our evals and I discussed this case and they think both of them are sciociopaths.

I am going to bed now and will see everyone off and on tomorrow.

Night all.

[legalmania]

How do they deviate from the typical profile?
I don't mean to leave you hanging but my pills just kicked in and I can't explain it right now talk tomorrow. Go to findlaw dictionary and you can find out there. Sorry. Goodnight.

[Explorer]

It was nice talking to you late niters bye.

[AbbyNormal]

The board is running slow for me.

Had to go out and come back in.

Legal I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. The person that does our evals and I discussed this case and they think both of them are sciociopaths.

I am going to bed now and will see everyone off and on tomorrow.

Night all.Good night

[AbbyNormal]

I don't mean to leave you hanging but my pills just kicked in and I can't explain it right now talk tomorrow. Go to findlaw dictionary and you can find out there. Sorry. Goodnight.Thank you, and good night.

[AbbyNormal]

It was nice talking to you late niters bye.Likewise :smile: Good night

[aproudmom]

looks like everyone is gone for the night..well guess I can catch up a little since I cant sleep

[crimeq]

If only that were true, but it's not. A nonprofit 501 (C) (3) organization is a legal entity. The foundation itself would have to be sued for them to be liable. Anything else is a personal suit and would not apply to any asset from the foundation. And most nonprofits have board of directors or errors and omissions insurance to cover liability in the event that they are sued for something that does not involve blatant criminal activity.

Sorry for the answer, but it's the way nonprofits work. It's like owning a tire business that is incorporated and it gets sued for making bad tires. It's the corporation at risk, not the people. This is one of the reasons. why groups and businesses incorporate in the first place.

Thanks for the clarification. That's what I was looking for. The Ants did do everything possible to set themselves up with a flow of incoming money, and no liability. Monetarily, they are going to be OK no matter what happens, assuming people really make donations to their foundation.