May 21

[n/t]

Please bring Tori home :crying:

[Lovethechild]

Opps...didn't notice the new thread....thanks..n/t.



I just need to get a few things off my chest.


It's a shame that this thread has become "heated". Those of us with a unpopular theory, are afraid to post it. One or two posters even have the gall to try and make us feel bad for suspecting Tara. One even going so far as to say we "owe" her(tara) and apology. Where are we? In grade school? I think we are forgetting that we don't know the whole story yet. That being said....we will just have to agree to disagree.....Lets just leave it at that.


Have a nice day :)

[MoonFlwr]

Thanks for the new thread, n/t.

What a sad time. :sad:

Now, everyone who was holding out hope has been struck with the crippling blow of extinguished hope.

[Aussie Gal]

Please bring Tori home :crying:

Hi n/t,

I hope they bring Tori home today.
I was hoping they would have found her by now since they had that POS to tell them where she was.

[BJames]

Good morning to all :smile:

A friend and I went to the theater last night...it was sad watching folks taking the missing posters down and knowing that it is anything but a happy 'ending'. The talk in line was sad, angry...confused...
I do hope that Tori can be brought home today and laid to rest by her family, my heart goes out to them...and the many (many) other folks who are waking up this morning and holding their children just a little tighter.
If it can happen in small town Woodstock Ontario...it could happen anywhere.
May peace be with us all :mellow:

[n/t]

Opps...didn't notice the new thread....thanks..n/t.



I just need to get a few things off my chest.


It's a shame that this thread has become "heated". Those of us with a unpopular theory, are afraid to post it. One or two posters even have the gall to try and make us feel bad for suspecting Tara. One even going so far as to say we "owe" her(tara) and apology. Where are we? In grade school? I think we are forgetting that we don't know the whole story yet. That being said....we will just have to agree to disagree.....Lets just leave it at that.


Have a nice day :)

Lovechild, everyone has a right to their opinions and nobody can force you to make an apology if you feel in your heart that Tara shouldn't get one. As for me, I made a public apology yesterday because I was wrong in suspecting her. Yes, perhaps we don't have the whole story yet but I ask you to read the Globe&Mail article posted.

The police were wrong. I was wrong and perhaps many of us here were wrong. Tara may not have been the perfect mother but how many of us are?

I don't want this post to turn out to be a Tara post because in my heart, I believe we, as a society have failed Tori. The police failed her. They should've issued the Amber Alert immediately. Yes I know hindsight is 20/20 but maybe a hard lesson is learned here. They should've known better. The first few hours when a child is missing are crucial. An 8 year old DOES NOT runaway. How many times have we said we hoped the police were doing a parellel investigation? Yes, keep watching the family but there's still that one in a million chance that this was a stranger abduction. They did NOT do that and it's only by the grace of God that they got the break they needed or we would never know what happened to Victoria Stafford.

I will quote Amber Dubois mom. Amber is a 14 year old in Escondido, California who is still missing. The police there told her that a stranger abduction is one in a million. Carrie replied....."This is the one in a million".

The police need to find her and bring Tori home. She deserves that much from them and from us.

[n/t]

Thanks for the new thread, n/t.

What a sad time. :sad:

Now, everyone who was holding out hope has been struck with the crippling blow of extinguished hope.

Hi Moon,

A very sad time indeed. A very unexpected turn. I know many of us still had hope she was alive. I know I did. :sad:

[n/t]

Hi n/t,

I hope they bring Tori home today.
I was hoping they would have found her by now since they had that POS to tell them where she was.

They have to find her. What concerns me is they will make a deal with the devil and give the monster a plea bargain to reveal where her little body is.

Someone posted about our Canadian justice system on yesterday's thread. It's pathetic. If they make a deal, she'll be out in less than 12years. It's sickening.

As for the murderer, he'll probably get 25 years without parole.

[n/t]

Good morning to all :smile:

A friend and I went to the theater last night...it was sad watching folks taking the missing posters down and knowing that it is anything but a happy 'ending'. The talk in line was sad, angry...confused...
I do hope that Tori can be brought home today and laid to rest by her family, my heart goes out to them...and the many (many) other folks who are waking up this morning and holding their children just a little tighter.
If it can happen in small town Woodstock Ontario...it could happen anywhere.
May peace be with us all :mellow:

Ain't that the truth. Crimes don't just happen in big cities anymore. Watch your children. :crying:

[Aussie Gal]

They have to find her. What concerns me is they will make a deal with the devil and give the monster a plea bargain to reveal where her little body is.

Someone posted about our Canadian justice system on yesterday's thread. It's pathetic. If they make a deal, she'll be out in less than 12years. It's sickening.

As for the murderer, he'll probably get 25 years without parole.

I agree the Justice system just isn't right. It is the same here. I would love to see the death penalty brought back, especially for crimes that involve children.

[Aussie Gal]

article on Michael


http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/637413

After he moved to Woodstock, he often spent evenings in Good Time Charlies, a popular bar on the main street

[n/t]

Chief Fraser tried mightily to find a kernel of consolation in these awful events. "Perhaps there is some solace in knowing that, because of Victoria Stafford, every child in this city – and for that matter, this entire country – will be a little safer due to the heightened awareness of the need to better protect our children."

But people do forget, as time passes. Parents make mistakes. Sometimes the unthinkable happens, in a moment of craven opportunity.

And a child vanishes.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/637399



Too bad Chief Fraser didn't send this message out the day Tori disappeared. Child abductors were roaming the streets of Woodstock. Thank God there weren't other victims.

[Aussie Gal]

Search Continues For Body Of Victoria Stafford

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_34731.aspx

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/05/21/stafford-search-police021.html

[BevAnn]

Chief Fraser tried mightily to find a kernel of consolation in these awful events. "Perhaps there is some solace in knowing that, because of Victoria Stafford, every child in this city – and for that matter, this entire country – will be a little safer due to the heightened awareness of the need to better protect our children."

*snip*


His comment hit me kinda funny, and not in a good way. I took it as he is trying to push blame/responsibility on the parents here, which I'm sure her mother is racked with guilt as it is. I felt his comment, being he IS the Chief, would have been more appropriate if he'd said - Perhaps there is sme solace in knowing that, WE WILL ISSUE AMBER ALERTS EARLIER from here on out.

:mad:

[Maelstrom5]

Hi all,

I have not posted on this thread in about 3 weeks but I have followed your discussion and debate.

I just want to make one comment; a number of you posted yesterday that you felt bad for comments/questions you made/had about Tara, I understand your reasons but I don’t feel there was a need to do so. This is a crime board, by its very nature we are going to question the actions of those involved.

Most people here refrained from doing so until something Tara said or did set their hinky meter off. Tara actions and comments not only set it off from most people they became a daily switchboard of inappropriate/strange statements and actions. It was not only us, the press, the police, and the good peeps on every other crime website felt the same way.

I think we now know what Tara was not telling the truth about; not Tori’s disappearance, but her drug use. In one news report it has been stated:

“..Ms. McDonald was on at least one occasion seen by some of her relatives grinding up Oxycontin and snorting it, then emerging for her daily “one o'clock,” as she called the news conferences, to, among other things, deny that she had any connection to drugs or that drug debts could be at the root of her daughter's disappearance…”
From Thursday's Globe and Mail, Thursday, May. 21, 2009 05:47AM EDT

I feel very sorry for all involved, Tara included; and I am devastated to learn that another innocent child lost her life at the hands of monsters, but I do not feel the need to apologize.

We were wrong about the reason for Tara’s strange actions, but we were not wrong in commenting on the fact that they were indeed; strange. If she had told the truth about her drug problem from the get go then many people would have taken that into account when assessing her statements and demeanor. If she had told the truth maybe Tori’s abductors would have been placed behind bars weeks ago.

Sadly nothing, no amount of honesty on Tara‘s part, not even a Amber Alert, would have saved Tori's life.

[n/t]

Hi Peter,

I will have to disagree with your last sentence regarding the Amber Alert. Until we know exactly when Tori took her last breath, the Amber Alert could have saved her life. Sadly, they can't go back and start over. It's too late now.

[moonlite]

Greetings"

All I want to know at this point is why? Why hurt a Lil girl.
What is the motive? What is the true time line of events.
Who was really involved??

Moonlite

[aproudmom]

Opps...didn't notice the new thread....thanks..n/t.



I just need to get a few things off my chest.


It's a shame that this thread has become "heated". Those of us with a unpopular theory, are afraid to post it. One or two posters even have the gall to try and make us feel bad for suspecting Tara. One even going so far as to say we "owe" her(tara) and apology. Where are we? In grade school? I think we are forgetting that we don't know the whole story yet. That being said....we will just have to agree to disagree.....Lets just leave it at that.


Have a nice day :)


I wanted to reply to your post just like I did n/t no one can or should attack any of you I have not posted alot on here but have kept up with all of your postings and watched the PC by Tara you all were only trying so hard to figure out what happened to this child and have given this case your all...so to anyone who tries to make you or anyone else feel bad the H*ll with them...I actually thank so many of you for all your information on this case..it is your opinion and you had and have the right to say as you please..thank you all I am so sad it has ended like this I was in total shock when I came over to read up on any updates and saw we have no little Tori with us anymore..but she is up there playing with all the other little Angles...:wub:

Have a nice day to all of you..IMO no one needs a I am sorry

[Lovethechild]

Brought this over from yesterday's thread....

Doesn't Canada have a registered sexual offenders list? Don't they post that so parents can be aware? I know here in the USA, we have a sexual offenders list.

Moonlite


No Moonlite ..the public does not have access to known sex offenders online here in Canada.Not sure if when one moves into the neighborhood you are notified either.

That's a shame. Everyone should have access to info on these pieces of scum.

[Lovethechild]

I wanted to reply to your post just like I did n/t no one can or should attack any of you I have not posted alot on here but have kept up with all of your postings and watched the PC by Tara you all were only trying so hard to figure out what happened to this child and have given this case your all...so to anyone who tries to make you or anyone else feel bad the H*ll with them...I actually thank so many of you for all your information on this case..it is your opinion and you had and have the right to say as you please..thank you all I am so sad it has ended like this I was in total shock when I came over to read up on any updates and saw we have no little Tori with us anymore..but she is up there playing with all the other little Angles...:wub:

Have a nice day to all of you..IMO no one needs a I am sorry

Thank you so much for your reply,proudmom.:smile: I'm grieving for little Tori.. a young girl I have never met. I hope nobody takes offense to my post.....I just needed to vent.

[moonlite]

Brought this over from yesterday's thread....

Doesn't Canada have a registered sexual offenders list? Don't they post that so parents can be aware? I know here in the USA, we have a sexual offenders list.

Moonlite


No Moonlite ..the public does not have access to known sex offenders online here in Canada.Not sure if when one moves into the neighborhood you are notified either.

Greetings"
Sharon_Siz"

I think all Canadian citizens should be asking then why not is the information not available? I think every parent should be made aware or have access to information to protect children.

I know some would argue' about privacy' etc. Well my thoughts' if a perp has been convicted of a crime against children. Then yes by all means that should be made public. If a sex offender were to move into my neighborhood. I would most certainly want to know.

Don't you all think these kind of laws are important?

Moonlite

[mrsmcgoo]

That's a shame. Everyone should have access to info on these pieces of scum.

I agree completely!

I live in Canada and have sent a few emails to the RCMP regarding this very issue. It leaves our children completely vulnerable to these creeps. It's not right and the response has been the same each time I had contact with the RCMP. They state that in infringes on the criminals rights, which peeves me to no end. It's like our children have not rights to be protected, and not even just children but adults also who may have a convicted rapist or any violent criminal living close by. This in particular is one of the things our Canadian judgical system needs to follow the US's lead.


JMO

[aproudmom]

Hi Peter,

I will have to disagree with your last sentence regarding the Amber Alert. Until we know exactly when Tori took her last breath, the Amber Alert could have saved her life. Sadly, they can't go back and start over. It's too late now.

ITA with you n/t so far all I have read is more than likely she was killed that day/night but until a ME says it you just do not know..most of the time they go by the stats not the case..so far they have yet to find this child so they do not know unless some one confessed then I missed it...

[aproudmom]

I agree completely!

I live in Canada and have sent a few emails to the RCMP regarding this very issue. It leaves our children completely vulnerable to these creeps. It's not right and the response has been the same each time I had contact with the RCMP. They state that in infringes on the criminals rights, which peeves me to no end. It's like our children have not rights to be protected, and not even just children but adults also who may have a convicted rapist or any violent criminal living close by. This in particular is one of the things our Canadian judgical system needs to follow the US's lead.


JMO

omg no way they do not have a a place for parents to check who is around their children..that is terrible.:thumbdown:

[mrsmcgoo]

I followed this case in bits and peices, and I think the information coming out whether it be from police or from Tara herself seemed suspisous. I know people feel bad, but on these boards, we can only go with what information we have and it pointed in that direction in my eyes. Hope all aren't beating themselves up too much.

I also think the Amber Alert not being issued was a HUGE mistake in this case. LE was unprepared for this crime and OPP were playing catch up from the get go. Huge mistakes, HUGE!

I want to know if the home was visited on Wilson Street, because when OPP took over this case, they were canvasing the area all over again. They should have information from someone at that home on Wilson, something.


JMO

[mrsmcgoo]

omg no way they do not have a a place for parents to check who is around their children..that is terrible.:thumbdown:

Nothing at all!

In very very rare cases, it is announced that a criminal is being released in a certain area and is believed to be a risk of reoffending. I am talking maybe 3 times I remember ever hearing about this happening in say the last 20 years. Sickening isn't it? :crying:

[moonlite]

I wanted to reply to your post just like I did n/t no one can or should attack any of you I have not posted alot on here but have kept up with all of your postings and watched the PC by Tara you all were only trying so hard to figure out what happened to this child and have given this case your all...so to anyone who tries to make you or anyone else feel bad the H*ll with them...I actually thank so many of you for all your information on this case..it is your opinion and you had and have the right to say as you please..thank you all I am so sad it has ended like this I was in total shock when I came over to read up on any updates and saw we have no little Tori with us anymore..but she is up there playing with all the other little Angles...:wub:

Have a nice day to all of you..IMO no one needs a I am sorry

Greetings'
Aproudmom"



I'm way sorry too' Yes' I still don't think all of the story has been told. In my heart, I still think Tara has something to do with this, either by great degree of association with these people. IMO

I just hope the police are not so fast on closing this case. I really hope all the true facts come out.
I don't think this was a stranger abduction.

Moonlite

[aproudmom]

Thank you so much for your reply,proudmom.:smile: I'm grieving for little Tori.. a young girl I have never met. I hope nobody takes offense to my post.....I just needed to vent.

nope you have every right to feel that way and vent I have seen the ones on here who was so dedicated to this child and hate to say it I felt so bad when I read it a lot of you was the first I thought of I knew it would be so hard for you..I saw the passion you all had and you know what like I said one day Tara may or may not understand why so many was looking at her I was but do not feel I owe her any I am sorry..you all just keep up your wonderful post...I think this case may bring up other things but I pray they can bring her home to rest in peace...and maybe this will help other kids and parents so this does not keep happening this child walked right off with that person my kids knew better we had a code and if that person did not know it they were to scream FIRE as loud as possible..people do not pay attention to kids hollering they think it is a tantrum but you yell fire you best believe someone will look...

[Lovethechild]

IMO, All missing children and adults should be considered" Abducted "until proven otherwise. Wishful thinking, I know.

[moonlite]

Hi moonlite.:wink:

Of course I think laws need to be changed here.I am a natural born American.:biggrin:I think Canada should have the Death Penalty reinstated.

I still can't believe an Amber Alert was never issued.Unbelievable.

Greetings"
Sharon_Siz"

I think all Canadians should stand up for children rights. I'm not up to date on your Death Penalty?? What exactly are you referring too?
Do you feel the Death Penalty should be applied in Tori's case?

Moonlite

[Lovethechild]

nope you have every right to feel that way and vent I have seen the ones on here who was so dedicated to this child and hate to say it I felt so bad when I read it a lot of you was the first I thought of I knew it would be so hard for you..I saw the passion you all had and you know what like I said one day Tara may or may not understand why so many was looking at her I was but do not feel I owe her any I am sorry..you all just keep up your wonderful post...I think this case may bring up other things but I pray they can bring her home to rest in peace...and maybe this will help other kids and parents so this does not keep happening this child walked right off with that person my kids knew better we had a code and if that person did not know it they were to scream FIRE as loud as possible..people do not pay attention to kids hollering they think it is a tantrum but you yell fire you best believe someone will look...

My mom used to tell us when we were small to yell "fire" if we were being taken against our will. She also used to tell us if we were lost or in trouble.....to find a Mom-type or a grandma-type for help. Sadly...these days we can't even trust women anymore. :unsure:

[mrsmcgoo]

Greetings"
Sharon_Siz"

I think all Canadians should stand up for children rights. I'm not up to date on your Death Penalty?? What exactly are you referring too?
Do you feel the Death Penalty should be applied in Tori's case?

Moonlite


Sorry not Sharon, but the answer is that there is NO death penalty in Canada. Yep, we get to feed em and house em and most get out on parole down the line somewhere.

Does anyone know if we have even a sentence for "the rest of their natural life" for a criminal either? I don't think we even that option here.

Lets just say, I can understand why people take law into their own hands.

JMO

[Maelstrom5]

Hi Peter,

I will have to disagree with your last sentence regarding the Amber Alert. Until we know exactly when Tori took her last breath, the Amber Alert could have saved her life. Sadly, they can't go back and start over. It's too late now.

Hi n/t,

You are right we will have to wait to learn what those involved have to say and see if it corresponds to the forensics found at the gave site. I am going on what has been printed in the press at this time.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you 100% an Amber Alert should have been issued late that night or in the wee hours of the next morning. The local police statements about why they did not do so are just CYA.

BTW; here in the US if the Amber Alert criteria is not met but the case seems ominous none the less, the police will sometimes go back and rewrite a missing child’s report so it does fit within the confines of the law.

[Hope4Tori]

Good morning everyone here!

I am posting these links - if they have already been posted, my apologies. I will post them in the links thread as well.

A `ladies' man' and his lover
http://www.thestar.com/Article/637404

A life of bars, sports cars and women
http://www.thestar.com/article/637413

Gut feelings drove neighbours
http://www.thestar.com/article/637399

The third one is especially good, IMO, and written by one of my favorite Toronto columnists, Rosie Dimanno.

As well, I don't know if you are all aware, but CP24 (Sue Sgambati) is reporting that she is waiting to hear an update from OPP as charges for co-accused TLM may be upgraded to murder. Information must first be sworn and signed in the Courts before any such upgrade to the charge will be confirmed.

May Tori rest eternally in peace and love!:wub::wub::wub:

[aproudmom]

Greetings'
Aproudmom"



I'm way sorry too' Yes' I still don't think all of the story has been told. In my heart, I still think Tara has something to do with this, either by great degree of association with these people. IMO

I just hope the police are not so fast on closing this case. I really hope all the true facts come out.
I don't think this was a stranger abduction.

Moonlite

Moon I am getting the feeling you are not the only one who may be feeling this way maybe there is alot more to this and you should never be sorry for your gut feeling or your opinion..I can about name off the ones I have seen on this thread everyday and posting and watching videos trying to figure out who was who..that is because you all cared and fell in love with this child..I had just went through Sandra Cantus case and needed some sort of a break so I would just read all your post and listen to Tara's daily PC but most of the information I got was from all of you...and I can pretty much name the ones I saw on here from the start...go with your gut and your feelings that is why we are here..I know how I felt when they found Caylee and Sandra it was heart breaking so we do get where these cases get to us..

All I ask is that no one feels bad for anything I am really seeing the huge hearts in some of you:wub:

[Lovethechild]

This makes me wanna puke.:ohmy:


http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9520401-sun.html

[aproudmom]

Hi n/t,

You are right we will have to wait to learn what those involved have to say and see if it corresponds to the forensics found at the gave site. I am going on what has been printed in the press at this time.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you 100% an Amber Alert should have been issued late that night or in the wee hours of the next morning. The local police statements about why they did not do so are just CYA.

BTW; here in the US if the Amber Alert criteria is not met but the case seems ominous none the less, the police will sometimes go back and rewrite a missing child’s report so it does fit within the confines of the law.

I have noticed they are putting out a lot more like little Bryant they had no car description and then they finally did for Sandra Cantu so it seems they are getting better with the criteria which is good

[n/t]

This makes me wanna puke.:ohmy:


http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9520401-sun.html

Premeditated and planned. Sick ! Poor Tori:sad:

It was just after 10 a.m. on April 8 -- five hours before an abductor lured Tori, 8, to her eventual death -- when Rafferty offered up a typically brief Facebook update that's taking on an ominous new tone.

Good things are coming my way, he wrote

[aproudmom]

I will be thinking of all of you today I know alot are taking this very hard...I will check back in later to see if anything new is going on...

Have a Nice Day to all of you

[dref99]

Greetings'
Aproudmom"



I'm way sorry too' Yes' I still don't think all of the story has been told. In my heart, I still think Tara has something to do with this, either by great degree of association with these people. IMO

I just hope the police are not so fast on closing this case. I really hope all the true facts come out.
I don't think this was a stranger abduction.

Moonlite

From what has been said, the female abducter knew Tara in some way. That obviously made the abduction easier - it does not, however mean Tara had something to do with the abduction of her child - she may not be the worlds best mother - who is - but I disagree with what you are thinking "in your heart".

There seem to be alot of folks at the moment saying "you should never be sorry for your gut feeling" - that well may be, but sometimes "a gut feeling" turns out to be wrong.

So many issues arise in this world because folks will never admit to being wrong - lots of good examples in the world of politics - and in our workplaces and in our families. Sobeit - but it is good to remember - "the gut feeling" is not always the defining line of right.

My defining line for a mother is that most would never harm their child - I know it happens and I accept it happens. I simply give them the benefit of the doubt - until proven otherwise.

jmo

[dref99]

I think we all understand him, and his motivations as sick and twisted as they are.

I don't understand hers. I don't understand what would drive a fairly attractive 18 year old woman to participate in killing an innocent little child, just to get this total loser's approval.

What's in it for her? Why is the approval of a pedophile murderer so important to her that she's now wrecked her life and participated in killing a child?

She won't be the first lass who has been prepared to do almost anything to seek the approval of a particular man. One can only assume she was convinced he would "love her forever" or some such thing if she enticed the child to come with her. I would like to think she didn't realise the child would be killed. Obviously something has driven her to confess, perhaps she could no longer live silently with what happened or what she knows?

I doubt I would ever understand, but it has certainly happened before & sadly may happen again.

jmo

[n/t]

I think we all understand him, and his motivations as sick and twisted as they are.

I don't understand hers. I don't understand what would drive a fairly attractive 18 year old woman to participate in killing an innocent little child, just to get this total loser's approval.

What's in it for her? Why is the approval of a pedophile murderer so important to her that she's now wrecked her life and participated in killing a child?

She has a sick and twisted mind herself. We don't know half of it yet. It wouldn't surprise me if she participated in the horrific act.

There's been references made to the Homolka/Bernardo case. I think if these 2 wouldn't have been caught, we'd have a copy cat case. Tori wouldn't have been the first nor the last.

I'm waiting for the details. I keep wondering if they were involved with Cedrika's disappearance. Snatched in Trois Rivieres, Quebec. Small town with 48,000 people. Lured by a woman/man looking for a missing dog.

[Orleaner12]

Good Morning all...

I hope today that the OPP will find Tori and bring her back to her family..

I appreciate how some of you are feeling guilty of your suspicions of Tara from the get go and have posted same...I applaud you for that...however...not all of us feel the same way at the moment and we too are being honest..as per our posts...I think we should all be able to post our opinions whether for or against in a civil and adult way (as this board has been from the start) and not try to sway others over to our way of thinking or try to make other posters feel guilty whatever their opinions...lets not turn it into another FB trash site..

I will be up front and say as much as I feel sorry for Tori's family in this situation I feel MORE sorry for Tori, a little girl who has had her life snuffed out for whatever reason/s...whether it was because of her parents life style or because of being in the wrong place at the right time....time will tell...

Lets continue to respect each other's posts without repercussions from others...I would hate to have to leave this site suddenly and have someone say...hmmmmm..... (not nice)......:sad:

[n/t]

Anybody know if there is a news conference scheduled today with an update? TIA

I've been searching online and can't find anything.

[Lovethechild]

Good morning all :seeya:

Praying our lil darlin comes home today. :rose:

Lovethechild, I said yesterday, and I'll repeat, I believe we have not heard the last of Tara's involvement. If I am wrong, I will be first in line to shout an apololgy from the rooftops, but I'm waiting for more info.

I feared earlier, and it seems to be coming to fruition, that this thread was going to deteriorate into a Haleigh clone.

Let's allow each other to express opinions and ideas without fear of reprisal, whether it is popular opinion or not, agree to disagree. This board has, in the past, been a forum for just that. Let's all, please, try to keep it that way.

The only other thing I would like to add is that CW has issued a fairly stern warning about rumours. They are not allowed.

Happy posting to all!

ITA, I'd hate to see this thread turn into a Haleigh board. Like you, Lizzie, I'm going to wait for LE to come out and say Tara had nothing to do with this. They HAVE NOT as of yet. I have a feeling more is to come.

[n/t]

o/t - An arrest made in Baby Angel case. It sounds like we may finally get to know the identity of the little boy found in the playground sandbox. http://www.koat.com/news/19524536/detail.html

:rose:

[beespence]

just a thought....take the two of them...place them in general population....and see how long it takes before they decide to tell police exactly where this little girl is....my guess...NOT LONG...:cursing:

We need to STOP protecting these animals and START protecting our children....bring back the death pentalty!!!!!

[justmy2cents]

in this video at the time 0:04 is a woman and at 0:07 and 0:08 is another woman are either of these woman TLM, i just read in an article from crap i don't remember there have been so many this morning...anyway the article said that TLM was helping TM hand out flyers two days after Tori went missing.... that is really bizarre if that is her, maybe it is true that criminals do like to return to the scene (sort of), you know that most serial killers (not saying this is the case here) try to aid the police in finding the killer.

I hope i am not jumping the gun on this as well as I did the FB friend list mess yesterday.

Praying some good will come of this, law changes and amber alert issues immediately no matter what. I know that I again explained to my daughter that under no circumstances is she to go with anyone unless they know the password. And by no means is she to give the person a clue or hint as to what the password is. She is at the age now where she thinks I am out of control ( my boyfriend says I have OOCS - our of control syndrome lol) with the protectiveness but I think she is finally starting to get it with Tori being so close to home and in Canada. As with Sandra Cantu in California, although it was as well a woman my daughter said "come on muma, this is canada, things like this do not happen here". From the mouths of babes, my daughter just turned 11 last week, Tori's story is one that will help us as parents teach our kids about being safe, trusting adults and strangers and stranger danger doesn't always mean a creepy looking old man (by the way is the description I got from my daughter about the types of people not to speak to, who she considered strangers).

Well I think my rant is done sorry for carrying on like that but it really is comforting to know that there is a place I can speak my mind about horrific things that take place in our world.

My prayers and thoughts are with the Stafford/MacDonald families:blushing::blushing::wub:

[mrsmcgoo]

I just read the link with the interview with the neighbors. Holy smokes!!

The neighbor was onto Terri Lynn within a week of Tara missing and CALLED THE COPS!

WTH happened that it took this long for LE to arrest? Terrible, shabby and shameful is all I can say! :cursing:

[mrsmcgoo]

If this is true, I would think Carol McClintic knew her daughter was involved, how couldn't she? :confused:

From this link: http://www.thestar.com/article/637399

About 10 days after Tori went missing, Carol McClintic told Jessica that her daughter and her boyfriend had gone to London to "dispose of some clothes. She said they went to get rid of her (McClintic's) white coat and other clothes."

JMO

[Hope4Tori]

I will be thinking of all of you today I know alot are taking this very hard...I will check back in later to see if anything new is going on...

Have a Nice Day to all of you

Thank you Aproudmom - your support and kindness - as well as that of others here - helps ease my own sense of sadness this morning. :wub:

I think we all have a right to our opinions - I am a huge advocate for freedom of speech - having said that I do think if this is the place for opinions, yesterday especially from my own vantage point, was a day to refrain from speculations about TM and/or RS. I feel that since there have been arrests and LE has stated that no other arrests are imminent, that Tori's family deserves some peace. In the absence of evidence, I feel the speculation about Tori's mother in particular could at least be stalled if not stopped out of respect for all Tori's grieving loved ones.

Unless and until some evidence is found and made public that any of TM's peculiar behaviours are in fact related to Tori's abduction and/or murderers, what good can it do now to discuss all the possibilities? TM has been scrutinized and IMO, she will continue to be - all I'm saying is can it not wait for a more appropriate time? We can longer find Tori alive, that hope is sadly gone forever, so now we must watch and wait until more facts about the accused come to light so that justice will be more than a hope for Tori, it will be guaranteed.

I'm not talking about what many of us have perceived as poor judgement in some of TM's known choices, actions and associations, as I believe given everything we knew and were led to believe warranted further investigation and I don't think anyone in the circumstance should feel badly about having discussed their suspicions. I am talking about how I feel which is that, IMO, it seems fruitless and even unkind to continue to speculate at this time, out of consideration for Tori and all Tori's family.

These are my views. I am certainly not trying to make anyone feel guilty or wrong, as I believe one's own conscience dictates that response. I have been wrong about many things in this case. It's not about who had the right theory or whose opinion was spot on, today, for me it is just about feelings and my wanting not to add insult to Tori's family's most injurious grief! If TM is shown to have had some connection in the future, I will feel no need to offer anyone here an apology for my having been wrong. I have a right to express my own feelings and thoughts just as you all have a right to yours.

I think we have all invested a big part of our hearts and hopes and wishes for Tori and still today the feelings here among us all are so tender and utterly raw. As the days pass I imagine much perspective will be restored but I am sad to know that Tori's family will now spend a lifetime searching for a comforting perspective, for their pain and sorrow is immeasurable to anything any one of us here feels.

IMO, this board is a place where all opinions are welcomed. I guess for me the anger I feel is directed at LE whom may have, if reports with links already posted are true, not acted with sufficent urgency to search everywhere for Tori and investigate every possibility to find her, and what we now know are her killers. LE IMO failed to protect other local and vulnerable children and may have indeed put others at risk with all the precious time wasted looking at TM and for taking a broader aproach to the investigation as they did not give the public so much as an inkling of the impression that we should have been afraid of a predator(s) at large. I know for me, even though I did not actually believe TM was directly involved, the silence of LE spoke volumes to me and I often wondered if TM was actually involved. Her own behaviour unfortunately led to much speculation, but it is sad to know, or at least believe that not only was her child missing, but practically everyone directed their suspicions towards her. That is in hindsight - a terribly sad thing to acknowledge and a burden I wish she had not had added to the heavy burden she will now carry with her for the rest of her life in losing her daughter, Tori.

I live in Toronto and apparently at some point so did the accused MTR so his past ties to this city could very well have brought him and the accused TLM here to do their dirty work. I am still not feeling that I am making my point . . . but thank you all for letting me try . . . and if anyone - everyone - disagrees with me, please feel free to express your opinions directly as I am the first person to stand up for your right to do so! And in the same way I will stand up for my own rights to express the truth as I see it.

I want my focus to be on Tori and on those accused of causing her sadly anticipated homecoming to be the opposite of what any of us had hoped for Tori! . . .now I'll be out for several hours so enjoy the free space!:smile:

Hoping Tori will be found and brought home to her final resting place where she will find everlasting peace and love that cannot die!:wub:

[Gugug]

Hi moonlite.:wink:

Of course I think laws need to be changed here.I am a natural born American.:biggrin:I think Canada should have the Death Penalty reinstated.

I still can't believe an Amber Alert was never issued.Unbelievable.

Amber Alert is a policy, rather than a law. Policies can be changed much more easily than laws. Politicians and police chiefs are the ones who can do this. Letters and lobbying influence policy.

[Gugug]

Premeditated and planned. Sick ! Poor Tori:sad:

It was just after 10 a.m. on April 8 -- five hours before an abductor lured Tori, 8, to her eventual death -- when Rafferty offered up a typically brief Facebook update that's taking on an ominous new tone.

Good things are coming my way, he wrote

That is disgusting.

[Gugug]

article on Michael


http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/637413

After he moved to Woodstock, he often spent evenings in Good Time Charlies, a popular bar on the main street

His girlfriend was a veterinary assistant. Wasn't Karla Homolka a veterinary assistant, too, which is how she got access to the drugs she used to immobilize her victims?

[Gugug]

Good morning everyone here!

I am posting these links - if they have already been posted, my apologies. I will post them in the links thread as well.

A `ladies' man' and his lover
http://www.thestar.com/Article/637404

A life of bars, sports cars and women
http://www.thestar.com/article/637413

Gut feelings drove neighbours
http://www.thestar.com/article/637399

The third one is especially good, IMO, and written by one of my favorite Toronto columnists, Rosie Dimanno.

As well, I don't know if you are all aware, but CP24 (Sue Sgambati) is reporting that she is waiting to hear an update from OPP as charges for co-accused TLM may be upgraded to murder. Information must first be sworn and signed in the Courts before any such upgrade to the charge will be confirmed.

May Tori rest eternally in peace and love!:wub::wub::wub:

That is what the eyewitness, who reported her to police, then did his own sleuthing, says in the article.

[tarabull1]

Streeter - THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing - I had to bring this over from the last thread because it is so deeeeeeeep - you made me think that Tori's 3 small words should be seen everywhere & in her handwriting of course: t-shirts, bumper stickers, billboards, bus shelters, subways, etc....

No doubt that Tori can live on thru her 3 small but powerful words!!!!!

"LOVE YOUR ENIMESE." -- Tori Stafford

__________________________________________________ __________

05-21-2009, 12:15 AM
streeter
Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 137

Love your enimese

--------------------

"Love your enimese."

Tori wrote those words inside a cut-out heart at church the week before she was taken. On Tuesday, May 12, two days after Mother's Day, Tara showed us some pictures and artwork by Tori. This one piece stood out above all the others for me. It appeared to have the same effect on her mother; Tara said that the paper heart, and those words, inspired her to write her Mother's Day letter to Tori.

She said that she will try to do what Tori taught her to do: love her enemies. She said that she was praying that the person who took Tori would look into their soul and find the compassion to bring her back to the people who love her. She said that the message "Love your enimese" helped her to get her feelings out. She said that she also found a piece of Tori's paper with "Love your enimese" on the top, and a line drawn down the middle with her friends on one side and her "enimese" on the other, and Tori was still working on the enimese side when she disappeared.

I feel that there's a reason for this. Bear with me.

Several years ago, while my aunt lie dying of cancer in the hospital, my uncle took a break from his bedside vigil and took a walk around the neighbourhood. He came along a bookstore, and went inside to browse, even though his mind was still down the street in that hospital room. He picked up a book and opened it randomly to somewhere in the middle. The words "How Do I Love Thee?" snapped him out of his detached fog and he immediately remembered that my aunt had given him a card on their anniversary with that poem embossed on the inside. He put the book down, walked a bit, and picked up another book. He opened it to a random page, and the same words, "How Do I Love Thee?" jumped off the page at him. He was spooked! I remember my mom told me this story as he had told it to her at my aunt's funeral, and chills went up and down my spine.

He was perplexed and desperate for an answer. He's not an overly religious man, but he went back to the hospital and sought out the pastor. He relayed the story about the two random books he picked up and opened to random pages to see the Elizabeth Barrett Browning poem, the same poem that had compelled his wife to buy that card for him. The pastor told him that he thought it was my aunt's way of sending a message to him at a time when she was too incompacitated to communicate.

At the funeral, the person who delivered her eulogy read the poem, explaining that she asked her husband to have it read out to her loved ones without mentioning HOW she asked him. I always loved that poem, but during that reading, it became personal for me. I heard her message. She was telling each and every one of us "I shall love thee better after death." It was comforting, excruciating, and exhiliarating at the same time. I can't express how much it affected me. (Last year, I chose it for the closing "prayer" when I married my husband.)

I've been thinking about Tori all afternoon, and I keep hearing her words and thinking about how they compelled Tara to finally, at long last, express some of her pain and make a plea for Tori's return.

Now that we know that Tori was already gone, and keeping in mind my uncle's experience, I've been wondering if Tori was sending a message. I know this is a stretch, especially for someone like me who is usually pretty practical and realistic. I just can't help but think that the past six weeks have been so full of suspicion, fighting, accusations, gossip, fear, and hatred. And in the midst of it all, Tori's message is one of universal love, acceptance and forgiveness. It's simplicity and innocence reminds us all -- and hopefully that includes Tara -- that, well, grownups can sure make a big mess out of things and we should follow the example of a little girl who was trying so hard to learn about forgiveness and acceptance.

My tribute to Tori is to never forget what she taught us by dedicating my sig line to her and her message.

---------------

"Love your enimese" -- Tori Stafford

[Gugug]

She won't be the first lass who has been prepared to do almost anything to seek the approval of a particular man. One can only assume she was convinced he would "love her forever" or some such thing if she enticed the child to come with her. I would like to think she didn't realise the child would be killed. Obviously something has driven her to confess, perhaps she could no longer live silently with what happened or what she knows?

I doubt I would ever understand, but it has certainly happened before & sadly may happen again.

jmo

Speaking of children who grow up in homes with substance-abusing parents...

Not familiar with all details of McClintic's childhood. However, it is not unusual for children of substance-abusing parents to become adults who constantly seek approval. They relive their unfulfilled childhoods eternally. Some decide to get help.

[mrsmcgoo]

I am playing catch up here, sorry if this is posted and discussed. :blushing:

Tara McDonald and her s/o pointed LE in the direction of McClintic when the tape was released.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_34724.aspx


But in a stunning revelation that may explain how authorities were able to hone in on the suspects, McDonald recalled coming up with McClintic's name when she originally saw that video. She and her boyfriend both went to police, possibly placing investigators on the trail that would eventually lead them to the pair standing accused on Wednesday.

She was right about her, poor mother. What a nightmare! :sad:

[Gugug]

If this is true, I would think Carol McClintic knew her daughter was involved, how couldn't she? :confused:

From this link: http://www.thestar.com/article/637399

About 10 days after Tori went missing, Carol McClintic told Jessica that her daughter and her boyfriend had gone to London to "dispose of some clothes. She said they went to get rid of her (McClintic's) white coat and other clothes."

JMO

Yes, if true, that would make her an accessory after the fact. Let's hope the police talk to that neighbor again.

Maybe she turned her daughter in? Or maybe she has cut a deal of her own?

[Gugug]

I am playing catch up here, sorry if this is posted and discussed. :blushing:

Tara McDonald and her s/o pointed LE in the direction of McClintic when the tape was released.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_34724.aspx


But in a stunning revelation that may explain how authorities were able to hone in on the suspects, McDonald recalled coming up with McClintic's name when she originally saw that video. She and her boyfriend both went to police, possibly placing investigators on the trail that would eventually lead them to the pair standing accused on Wednesday.

She was right about her, poor mother. What a nightmare! :sad:

Well, if what the eyewitness said in an article posted above was true, James Goris would have a special insight into McClintic's walk. The eyewitness says she saw James Goris at the McClintic home.

"Jessica said Rafferty told her he was in the construction business. "He was a snappy dresser, and he was polite. You know, always expensive clothes, sunglasses and stuff." While Jessica said she never saw Tara at the McClintic house – even though her ex-husband said he thought they were going to breed their dogs – the neighbour said she often saw Tara's boyfriend, James Goris, there. "I never saw Tara but James, oh yes," she said. "I told the investigators all that.""

From The Star, noted above.

[Lovethechild]

That is what the eyewitness, who reported her to police, then did his own sleuthing, says in the article.


Thank you...I had missed that. So, James Goris was seen at TLM's home? This MIGHT be where they bought there OXY??

Correct me if I'm wrong..but didn't Tara mention one of her PC's that this didn't involve drugs and then she mentioned something about that one thing and LE already checked it out????

[VC2]

That's a shame. Everyone should have access to info on these pieces of scum.

wouldn't have helped here. Rafferty had no criminal history :(

[Lovethechild]

wouldn't have helped here. Rafferty had no criminal history :(


I know.:crying: I just meant SO's in general.

[Lovethechild]

I think the police in this situation should be given permission to 'lean' on these two P.O.S. until they tell where this little girl's body is.

This isn't a case where they accidentally hit her with their car, they planned this and lured her away.

Sick doesn't even begin to describe all of this.

And I read that he was CRYING in court while his mommy looked on! Not such a big tough guy now is he?

Beat them both to death.


They should allow "water-boarding" for these two.:flamemad:

[VC2]

Sorry not Sharon, but the answer is that there is NO death penalty in Canada. Yep, we get to feed em and house em and most get out on parole down the line somewhere.

Does anyone know if we have even a sentence for "the rest of their natural life" for a criminal either? I don't think we even that option here.

Lets just say, I can understand why people take law into their own hands.

JMO

Sort of. We have the "Dangerous Offender" law which means they can be kept indefinitely after their sentence has been finished.

[Gugug]

They should allow "water-boarding" for these two.:flamemad:

Too bad Ms. Rice has left Canada. She was here just days ago.

[Gugug]

Sort of. We have the "Dangerous Offender" law which means they can be kept indefinitely after their sentence has been finished.

Aah, but that usually takes more than one offence.

[Skraps]

A quick question to our American and Far Abroad friends.... I was just wondering if Tori's story has been on your news channels yesterday/today?

I am curious to know if it is an story where you are?
thank-you

[Gugug]

Thank you...I had missed that. So, James Goris was seen at TLM's home? This MIGHT be where they bought there OXY??

Correct me if I'm wrong..but didn't Tara mention one of her PC's that this didn't involve drugs and then she mentioned something about that one thing and LE already checked it out????

She did say that her drug use had nothing to do with Tori's disappearance. Mind you, she also said that she wasn't using any more. Christie Blatchford's article in the Globe and Mail said that she crushed Oxy and snorted it before a PC. Is that the PC where she was chewing gum/sucking a cough drop, and slurring her words? Days of yore, do you remember that one?

[VC2]

She has a sick and twisted mind herself. We don't know half of it yet. It wouldn't surprise me if she participated in the horrific act.

There's been references made to the Homolka/Bernardo case. I think if these 2 wouldn't have been caught, we'd have a copy cat case. Tori wouldn't have been the first nor the last.

I'm waiting for the details. I keep wondering if they were involved with Cedrika's disappearance. Snatched in Trois Rivieres, Quebec. Small town with 48,000 people. Lured by a woman/man looking for a missing dog.

unless they were known to live there that is FAR from woodstock. really far, so i doubt it

[VC2]

Greetings"

All I want to know at this point is why? Why hurt a Lil girl.
What is the motive? What is the true time line of events.
Who was really involved??

Moonlite

according to LE sources, it was sexual :(

[kelloggirl]

Good morning everyone here!

I am posting these links - if they have already been posted, my apologies. I will post them in the links thread as well.

A `ladies' man' and his lover
http://www.thestar.com/Article/637404

A life of bars, sports cars and women
http://www.thestar.com/article/637413

Gut feelings drove neighbours
http://www.thestar.com/article/637399

The third one is especially good, IMO, and written by one of my favorite Toronto columnists, Rosie Dimanno.

As well, I don't know if you are all aware, but CP24 (Sue Sgambati) is reporting that she is waiting to hear an update from OPP as charges for co-accused TLM may be upgraded to murder. Information must first be sworn and signed in the Courts before any such upgrade to the charge will be confirmed.

May Tori rest eternally in peace and love!:wub::wub::wub:

Bless those neighbors and their persistence in following their intuition. Without them, this case wouldn't be solved.

""Did you take Tori?"

It was a month ago that Craig Racine asked his neighbour that question, straight-up.

Bundling together laundry to use his neighbour's washing machine as an excuse, he'd even gone through the next-door house, looking for evidence of the 8-year-old girl's presence, but found nothing.

"Of course not!" Terri-Lynne McClintic retorted hotly.
...

Racine and his girlfriend, Jessica McDonald, drove to London themselves, searching through garbage bins for the coat, but found nothing.

Such was their gut feeling that McClintic and her boyfriend were somehow involved in the youngster's disappearance – the reason they had quietly called in a tip to a police hotline, a week after Tori vanished, and then physically attended at the station to follow through on their suspicions."

[VC2]

I just read the link with the interview with the neighbors. Holy smokes!!

The neighbor was onto Terri Lynn within a week of Tara missing and CALLED THE COPS!

WTH happened that it took this long for LE to arrest? Terrible, shabby and shameful is all I can say! :cursing:

ITA :cursing: i said yesterday, LE had the video experts and could have matched mcclintic to the video since the neighbor figured it out!!!! They could have done it easily.

They just couldn't be bothered bc they thought it was Tara (whom i never saw a motive for and therefore felt was not involved) and seem to have ignored the real leads from others to the perp.

There will be an inquiry into how this case was handled imo. At least that is one thing we do here when it looks like cops screwed up royally.

It makes me sooo angry. From what they said, she was dead the first day but they didn't know that and if she was being kept alive for a while they deliberately ignored the lead to who took her. There isn't an emoticon that expresses what i feel

[Gugug]

Bless those neighbors and their persistence in following their intuition. Without them, this case wouldn't be solved.

""Did you take Tori?"

It was a month ago that Craig Racine asked his neighbour that question, straight-up.

Bundling together laundry to use his neighbour's washing machine as an excuse, he'd even gone through the next-door house, looking for evidence of the 8-year-old girl's presence, but found nothing.

"Of course not!" Terri-Lynne McClintic retorted hotly.
...

Racine and his girlfriend, Jessica McDonald, drove to London themselves, searching through garbage bins for the coat, but found nothing.

Such was their gut feeling that McClintic and her boyfriend were somehow involved in the youngster's disappearance – the reason they had quietly called in a tip to a police hotline, a week after Tori vanished, and then physically attended at the station to follow through on their suspicions."

And they also told police that James Goris had been at the McClintic home, according to Jessica.

[girlfriday]

Yes, if true, that would make her an accessory after the fact. Let's hope the police talk to that neighbor again.

Maybe she turned her daughter in? Or maybe she has cut a deal of her own?

That is doubtful. She is quoted in the news as having declared that the police must have made a mistake - that her daughter couldn't have been involved. It was also reported in the news by her neighbor, that it was her (not her daughter - who was already in custody) who was taken away (and not quietly) by police along with MR, from her house Tuesday evening.

[kelloggirl]

I think we all understand him, and his motivations as sick and twisted as they are.

I don't understand hers. I don't understand what would drive a fairly attractive 18 year old woman to participate in killing an innocent little child, just to get this total loser's approval.

What's in it for her? Why is the approval of a pedophile murderer so important to her that she's now wrecked her life and participated in killing a child?

By all accounts, it seems she had a horrible childhood. She seems angry at the world and is reveling (at least online) in a tough girl persona. Hardcore. Perhaps she's angry at children who have seemingly normal, happy lives, and has no remorse about ruining another's child's life as hers was ruined.

I don't know though. I'm not a psychologist or pretend to be one.

Also, I keep thinking though that she was the instigator of this for some reason. The articles make him out to be quite the ladies' man. Lots of relationship, lots of women, successful at it. Is that a typical profile of a pedophile? Aren't they NOT attracted to adults? Somewhat socially inept? I suppose it could just be extreme sexual deviance - wanting to do taboo things rather than typical pedophilia. Ugh, I'm sick just thinking about it.

:rose: Justice for Tori :rose:

[girlfriday]

ITA :cursing: i said yesterday, LE had the video experts and could have matched mcclintic to the video since the neighbor figured it out!!!! They could have done it easily.

They just couldn't be bothered bc they thought it was Tara (whom i never saw a motive for and therefore felt was not involved) and seem to have ignored the real leads from others to the perp.

There will be an inquiry into how this case was handled imo. At least that is one thing we do here when it looks like cops screwed up royally.

It makes me sooo angry. From what they said, she was dead the first day but they didn't know that and if she was being kept alive for a while they deliberately ignored the lead to who took her. There isn't an emoticon that expresses what i feel

We have no idea how many leads they were following. I know for a fact that they had a lead on someone else that could be almost the carbon copy of the accused woman - background and all. Without much more than the video - they had little to go on. Thank God they somehow got her to crack.

[VC2]

my god this neighbor did more than the cops by FAR to try and find Tori or at least get proof it was the perps.

Bundling together laundry to use his neighbour's washing machine as an excuse, he'd even gone through the next-door house, looking for evidence of the 8-year-old girl's presence, but found nothing.Racine and his girlfriend, Jessica McDonald, drove to London themselves, searching through garbage bins for the coat, but found nothing...........

Such was their gut feeling that McClintic and her boyfriend were somehow involved in the youngster's disappearance – the reason they had quietly called in a tip to a police hotline, a week after Tori vanished, and then physically attended at the station to follow through on their suspicions.
http://www.thestar.com/article/637399

I hope they get the reward. Hell maybe they should replace a couple of the so called professional investigators.

IMO

[Kip]

Bless those neighbors and their persistence in following their intuition. Without them, this case wouldn't be solved.

""Did you take Tori?"

It was a month ago that Craig Racine asked his neighbour that question, straight-up.

Bundling together laundry to use his neighbour's washing machine as an excuse, he'd even gone through the next-door house, looking for evidence of the 8-year-old girl's presence, but found nothing.

"Of course not!" Terri-Lynne McClintic retorted hotly.
...

Racine and his girlfriend, Jessica McDonald, drove to London themselves, searching through garbage bins for the coat, but found nothing.

Such was their gut feeling that McClintic and her boyfriend were somehow involved in the youngster's disappearance – the reason they had quietly called in a tip to a police hotline, a week after Tori vanished, and then physically attended at the station to follow through on their suspicions."

Yes, bless those neighbors. They really went over and above the call of duty. And talk about brave -- thinking your neighbor abducted a child and might have murdered her -- and then asking them outright! It's a wonder McClintic and Rafferty didn't arrange an "accident" for their nosy neighbors.

[Kip]

my god this neighbor did more than the cops by FAR to try and find Tori or at least get proof it was the perps.


http://www.thestar.com/article/637399

I hope they get the reward. Hell maybe they should replace a couple of the so called professional investigators.

IMO

No kidding. These two were great -- noticing the resemblence to the video; asking to do laundry so they could check out the house for signs of Tori; asking about the white jacket and then when told it was dumped in London, driving there and searching through trash bins for it; noting the hair cut (something LE frequently tells people to be on the alert for); asking them outright if they took Tori; calling an anonymous tip in and then following up on it in person.

These two deserve any reward. What great people.

[n/t]

Ontario Provincial Police officers maintained their silence as the operation continued for a second day, but there was little activity throughout the morning at the OPP detachment in Fergus, where the search effort has been based.

:hammer:

http://www.barrieadvance.com/barrieadvance/article/136441

[Jester]

Opps...didn't notice the new thread....thanks..n/t.



I just need to get a few things off my chest.


It's a shame that this thread has become "heated". Those of us with a unpopular theory, are afraid to post it. One or two posters even have the gall to try and make us feel bad for suspecting Tara. One even going so far as to say we "owe" her(tara) and apology. Where are we? In grade school? I think we are forgetting that we don't know the whole story yet. That being said....we will just have to agree to disagree.....Lets just leave it at that.


Have a nice day :)

I think it's time to let it go. Tori's mother had nothing to do with this. She is not a Casey Anthony.

[tarabull1]

I think it's time to let it go. Tori's mother had nothing to do with this. She is not a Casey Anthony.

I agree....altho I think CA has contributed to the publics reaction to Tara. BUT take it out on CA.....please, leave TM alone - she's been thru enough & it's not over yet!!!!

I can't imagine their suffering - all of them - of course especially Tori, but also left to go on living without her - Daryn, Tara & Rodney.

They (like the rest of us) are only human, how much more can they be expected to take....All of our hearts are heavy & our spirits are broken - but try to imagine what THEY are suffering.

Find some compassion.

[VC2]

:cursing::cursing: forensic team has been called to a dumpster, taped off by crime scene team tape. baseline and wellington road

If they put her in a dumpster omg.

[Skraps]

Did you guys get the latest development on the search for Tori?
Looks like the forensics team has just been called in to look through a dumpster north of guelph at wellington 22 and base line road.

:(

[Gugug]

No kidding. These two were great -- noticing the resemblence to the video; asking to do laundry so they could check out the house for signs of Tori; asking about the white jacket and then when told it was dumped in London, driving there and searching through trash bins for it; noting the hair cut (something LE frequently tells people to be on the alert for); asking them outright if they took Tori; calling an anonymous tip in and then following up on it in person.

These two deserve any reward. What great people.

Of course the police must have been searching the garbage dump for the white coat, in addition to other things. I wonder if the dump in London was ever searched. And how about the dump where commercial garbage bins are dumped? There is a separate dump for waste from private companies where I live.

Maybe the mother knows where that coat went. Maybe the coat wasn't the only thing they dumped in London.

Just read post above about dumpsters after posting this.

[days of yore]

I apologize if others have mentioned this already, but the more I hear about these two, the more inclined I am to think that she was the one to do away with Tori.

He obviously is sick and twisted, but as far as killings go, I'm getting the impression that she is the one that is capable of doing so. I certainly hope (as others have mentioned earlier), that she doesn't get off easy just for helping, or implicating Rafferty. As a society, it is natural that we are tend to believe that only the male is capable of such horrific acts, but in this case, I wonder if after he finished with her, McClintic did the final deed.

So sickening. God Rest Tori's Soul.

[VC2]

No kidding. These two were great -- noticing the resemblence to the video; asking to do laundry so they could check out the house for signs of Tori; asking about the white jacket and then when told it was dumped in London, driving there and searching through trash bins for it; noting the hair cut (something LE frequently tells people to be on the alert for); asking them outright if they took Tori; calling an anonymous tip in and then following up on it in person.

These two deserve any reward. What great people.

I don't know how the reward is worded, often no one gets it because LE says they knew of the ppl b4hand etc. however i really think they went beyond any responsibility as a citizen and deserve something. Specially since they were right. If LE had acted on their tip immediately they might have found the coat before it disappeared, perhaps it had a hair of tori's on it or something that would make it clear she was with her.

[VC2]

I apologize if others have mentioned this already, but the more I hear about these two, the more inclined I am to think that she was the one to do away with Tori.

He obviously is sick and twisted, but as far as killings go, I'm getting the impression that she is the one that is capable of doing so. I certainly hope (as others have mentioned earlier), that she doesn't get off easy just for helping, or implicating Rafferty. As a society, it is natural that we are tend to believe that only the male is capable of such horrific acts, but in this case, I wonder if after he finished with her, McClintic did the final deed.

So sickening. God Rest Tori's Soul.

I agree, i get the impression its her to who did the murder. Who knows, but he doesn't seem to have a violent history, a con artist, lives off others, a coward but it looks like she was more twisted of the two. Both twisted of course.

[Gugug]

That is doubtful. She is quoted in the news as having declared that the police must have made a mistake - that her daughter couldn't have been involved. It was also reported in the news by her neighbor, that it was her (not her daughter - who was already in custody) who was taken away (and not quietly) by police along with MR, from her house Tuesday evening.

And that was why many asked if another arrest was pending.

[Gugug]

I'm confused again. Didn't the GF direct them to the Guelph area? Or am I assuming when I shouldn't be :confused:

Referring to news article quoting neighbors saying McClintic's mother told them the coat was being disposed of in "London". Maybe the two didn't go to "London", but put the coat, and other evidence, somewhere else, together.

[Orleaner12]

Referring to news article quoting neighbors saying McClintic's mother told them the coat was being disposed of in "London". Maybe the two didn't go to "London", but put the coat, and other evidence, somewhere else, together.

somehow I think that maybe these two (neighbours) are maybe embellishing their story a little...I doubt that the Mother told them the daugher had ditched her white coat...the Edmonton Journal article from yesterday mentioned that the Mother was dying from cancer and the daughter had moved in to care for her...could be the oxy connection there..

I would say it is the female that killed little Tori as to let her go meant that Tori may have been able to identify her and not the male...

[Orleaner12]

LFP mentioned a possible live PC at 2PM...not sure if they just meant update or a PC with family or police......

[omsk99]

Per this artcile (in French), McClintic told LE Tori's body is in the Guelph area. McClintic will be participating in the search for Tori's body on board of a police helicopter today. Also per this article, Rafferty lived in the Guelph area for at least a year until 2006, and his former boss at a landscaping company said he had an "unstable life" but was a "good employee".

http://www2.canoe.com/infos/societe/archives/2009/05/20090521-124208.html

[Lorelei]

I'm watching CBC news, latest update says police are converging upon a garbage dumpster in Furgus. Poor little sweetheart :(

[n/t]

Per this artcile (in French), McClintic told LE Tori's body is in the Guelph area. McClintic will be participating in the search for Tori's body on board of a police helicopter today. Also per this article, Rafferty lived in the Guelph area for at least a year until 2006, and his former boss at a landscaping company said he had an "unstable life" but was a "good employee".

http://www2.canoe.com/infos/societe/archives/2009/05/20090521-124208.html

Plea deal in the works. No doubt. :cursing:

Thanks for the update.

[omsk99]

Plea deal in the works. No doubt. :cursing:

Thanks for the update.

I am very torn when it comes to plea agreements. On one hand, the body should be found, on the other - the POS doesn't get what she/he deserves :angry:

[Gugug]

somehow I think that maybe these two (neighbours) are maybe embellishing their story a little...I doubt that the Mother told them the daugher had ditched her white coat...the Edmonton Journal article from yesterday mentioned that the Mother was dying from cancer and the daughter had moved in to care for her...could be the oxy connection there..

I would say it is the female that killed little Tori as to let her go meant that Tori may have been able to identify her and not the male...

I do hope that the police go back and reinterview all the crucial witnesses in this case.

[Maelstrom5]

A quick question to our American and Far Abroad friends.... I was just wondering if Tori's story has been on your news channels yesterday/today?

I am curious to know if it is an story where you are?
thank-you

Hi Skraps,

I have had Tori’s name on Google alert since the story first broke. As strange as it may seem this story has not been picked up world wide. There have been a few news reports in the USA and a couple in the UK but nothing like the Madeleine McCann or Natalee Holloway case.

I am not sure why. It could be because Canada is a relatively small country, population wise, but that does not seem to fit the bill.

I think it is more likely to do with the fact that the press is only willing to cover one story at a time. In the USA Caylee Anthony still fills the papers even though nothing new, or important, has been reported in six months. In the UK there has been a lot of news about a missing Chef, Claudia Lawrence. Australia and New Zealand seem to be focused on local stories as well.

The really sad fact is that worldwide, so many go missing at any given time, that only a small fraction of them will ever get any news coverage. We will only know about 1% of them. The other 99% will be missed just as much of course, but only by their family and friends.

[Orleaner12]

from Canadian Press...very reliable source... note what the woman Baker says about Terrilynn and the couch......

http://www.thecanadianpress.com/english/online/OnlineFullStory.aspx?filename=n052131A&newsitemid=211868319&languageid=1

[Gugug]

Hi Skraps,

I have had Tori’s name on Google alert since the story first broke. As strange as it may seem this story has not been picked up world wide. There have been a few news reports in the USA and a couple in the UK but nothing like the Madeleine McCann or Natalee Holloway case.

I am not sure why. It could be because Canada is a relatively small country, population wise, but that does not seem to fit the bill.

I think it is more likely to do with the fact that the press is only willing to cover one story at a time. In the USA Caylee Anthony still fills the papers even though nothing new, or important, has been reported in six months. In the UK there has been a lot of news about a missing Chef, Claudia Lawrence. Australia and New Zealand seem to be focused on local stories as well.

The really sad fact is that worldwide, so many go missing at any given time, that only a small fraction of them will ever get any news coverage. We will only know about 1% of them. The other 99% will be missed just as much of course, but only by their family and friends.

Despite all the ruckus, or maybe because of it, Tori Stafford's family did what they set out to do: keep her story in the news, and keep people aware of the need to keep on looking.

[tarabull1]

Did you guys get the latest development on the search for Tori?
Looks like the forensics team has just been called in to look through a dumpster north of guelph at wellington 22 and base line road.

:(

I just saw the live reports also - maybe they've found the white coat:

[snipped from star article link up thread....]About 10 days after Tori went missing, Carol McClintic told Jessica that her daughter and her boyfriend had gone to London to "dispose of some clothes. She said they went to get rid of her (McClintic's) white coat and other clothes."

(I realize this dumpster isn't London area like the mother suggested, but who knows where they ended up....)

[mrsmcgoo]

It makes me sooo angry. From what they said, she was dead the first day but they didn't know that and if she was being kept alive for a while they deliberately ignored the lead to who took her. There isn't an emoticon that expresses what i feel

I hope you don't mind I snipped this for length VC2.

I completely agree! Unless they have an outright confession from McClintic, they have no way of knowing how long Tori lived. But even regardless of that now, they need to step it up and get things going quickly for the sake of these children. So what if they make a mistake and the child has run away and was not abducted, most of us agree it is better to start a missing person investigation with the thought that time is crucial and do what you can FAST. I don't feel they did that in any shape or form in Tori's case. They didn't do alot and I am mad! :cursing:

JMO

[VC2]

I am very torn when it comes to plea agreements. On one hand, the body should be found, on the other - the POS doesn't get what she/he deserves :angry:

True but i think that it is more important that the body be found and laid to rest. The family needs to have that small amount of comfort and finality. If it knocks a few years off a sentence, or in some states means life without parole vs the death penalty, it is better than never knowing where your loved one was. Also, whatever the plea deal is, it often helps get a conviction because of the evidence with the body and without one there is always the possibility that a jury may have reasonable doubt unless there is extremely strong evidence without it.

jmo

[Gugug]

from Canadian Press...very reliable source... note what the woman Baker says about Terrilynn and the couch......

http://www.thecanadianpress.com/english/online/OnlineFullStory.aspx?filename=n052131A&newsitemid=211868319&languageid=1

So, according to this person, who was a neighbor and whose daughter was Tori's friend, TM and TLM were friends.

And according to another unnamed source, the drug connection was also a factor in the TM-TLM connection.

Please let's hope the police contact and interview all these people, again and again if necessary.

[tarabull1]

from Canadian Press...very reliable source... note what the woman Baker says about Terrilynn and the couch......

http://www.thecanadianpress.com/english/online/OnlineFullStory.aspx?filename=n052131A&newsitemid=211868319&languageid=1


[had to snip...] A source told The Canadian Press that McDonald used to buy Oxycontin - which she has admitted to using in the past - from McClintic.

Baker remembers a different connection.

"Terri-Lynne, I had heard her name last year, speaking with Tara," Baker said.

"I had a friend who was going to buy the couch that Tara had and that fell through and I remember (Tara) saying, 'Oh no, I'm going to give it to my friend Terri-Lynne.' "

[Gugug]

I just saw the live reports also - maybe they've found the white coat:

[snipped from star article link up thread....]About 10 days after Tori went missing, Carol McClintic told Jessica that her daughter and her boyfriend had gone to London to "dispose of some clothes. She said they went to get rid of her (McClintic's) white coat and other clothes."

(I realize this dumpster isn't London area like the mother suggested, but who knows where they ended up....)

Yes, "London".

[omsk99]

True but i think that it is more important that the body be found and laid to rest. The family needs to have that small amount of comfort and finality. If it knocks a few years off a sentence, or in some states means life without parole vs the death penalty, it is better than never knowing where your loved one was. Also, whatever the plea deal is, it often helps get a conviction because of the evidence with the body and without one there is always the possibility that a jury may have reasonable doubt unless there is extremely strong evidence without it.

jmo

I agree with everything you said! I, too, believe it is more important for the family to have closure. I just hope she is not messing with LE in this case, since they still have not located Tori's remains :mad:

[mrsmcgoo]

Plea deal in the works. No doubt. :cursing:

Thanks for the update.

My stomach is sick over this. :sad:

Hopefully the OPP has learned from their dealings with Karla Holmalka and don't make the same mistake twice.

JMO

[omsk99]

Sorry to disagree BUT I don't find the overweight corn rowed weaven Canuck attractive at all.That is probably why it attracted her.A male was paying attention to her unattractive over eating ***.
What's in it for her you ask? Attention and approval.

You think this wouldn't have happened if she were a size 0? :no:

[Skraps]

OPP confirms that the dumpster contains 'items of interest' in relation to Tori's disappearance.
Newsworld Live

[omsk99]

~snipped

"Police are also conducting a meticulous search of a garbage dumpster on a property north of Fergus. Police have cordoned off the dumpster with police tape and an officer is standing guard at the site."

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090520/stafford_search_090521/20090521/?hub=TorontoNewHome

another snip

"I can tell you that she is doing it voluntarily, she feels a real obligation to do this, and genuinely wants to help," Jeanine Leroy told CTV News on Thursday about Terri-Lynne McClintic."

Right, voluntarily and genuinely... :rolleyes:

ETA: "There is word that McClintic may face further charges later today."

[n/t]

True but i think that it is more important that the body be found and laid to rest. The family needs to have that small amount of comfort and finality. If it knocks a few years off a sentence, or in some states means life without parole vs the death penalty, it is better than never knowing where your loved one was. Also, whatever the plea deal is, it often helps get a conviction because of the evidence with the body and without one there is always the possibility that a jury may have reasonable doubt unless there is extremely strong evidence without it.

jmo


12 years...that's what they knocked off Karla. It's not a couple of years. That's why I'm disgusted if there is some sort of plea deal. Yes I want Tori found but there was a huge error in the way this case was handled and the police messed up big time. She should've been found weeks ago. Now they have to play nice with the suspect. Makes me sick to my stomach.

No way she's doing this voluntarily. There's something in it for her and she knows it. UGH! :cursing:

[beemeup]

I see a plea deal in the works MOO

[Maelstrom5]

from Canadian Press...very reliable source... note what the woman Baker says about Terrilynn and the couch......

http://www.thecanadianpress.com/english/online/OnlineFullStory.aspx?filename=n052131A&newsitemid=211868319&languageid=1

TY Orleaner12,

This story is first rate; not because it tell us things we do not already know but because it cuts passed all the facts; all the speculation, and goes to the heart of every missing person case. It deals far less with details, timelines, and accusations, and deals with the terribly profound loss so many people feel. It tells us in ways that make us weep how far the ripples go; it tells us just how many hearts were broken.

Off topic but I think now may be the time to read the poems another murdered child’s mother wrote to her while she was missing.

Alycia Mesiti 14.. Murder Victim; R.I.P. Alycia
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=143252708&albumID=951274&imageID=26958163

[debbadoo]

[QUOTE=omsk99;13126510]~snipped



"I can tell you that she is doing it voluntarily, she feels a real obligation to do this, and genuinely wants to help," Jeanine Leroy told CTV News on Thursday about Terri-Lynne McClintic."

Right, voluntarily and genuinely... :rolleyes: [quote]

Well, isn't THAT real big of her, does she think she is a freaking HERO? :mad::angry:

[n/t]

from Canadian Press...very reliable source... note what the woman Baker says about Terrilynn and the couch......

http://www.thecanadianpress.com/english/online/OnlineFullStory.aspx?filename=n052131A&newsitemid=211868319&languageid=1

I think back to Sandra Cantu's case. I don't know if some of you followed her case but who would've suspected the sunday school teacher? The neighbour. A woman.

Yes, sometimes we can't even trust our neighbours. We grew up fearing the creepy ugly strange looking men. Now it really doesn't matter. They come in all shapes, sizes, race, age and gender. It's a sick and sad world. God bless and help our children and keep them safe.

[Lovethechild]

I think it's time to let it go. Tori's mother had nothing to do with this. She is not a Casey Anthony.

That's YOUR opinion.

[lune3]

OPP confirms that the dumpster contains 'items of interest' in relation to Tori's disappearance.
Newsworld Live

I'm confused about the dumpster. It's been 6 weeks. Unless they dumped clothing and evidence in the last week or so, wouldn't the dumpster's contents have been emptied long before?

[Pinetree]

Why would JG be hanging out at Terrilynns house? Was he wanting to "breed dogs", also?

[omsk99]

I think back to Sandra Cantu's case. I don't know if some of you followed her case but who would've suspected the sunday school teacher? The neighbour. A woman.

Yes, sometimes we can't even trust our neighbours. We grew up fearing the creepy ugly strange looking men. Now it really doesn't matter. They come in all shapes, sizes, race, age and gender. It's a sick and sad world. God bless and help our children and keep them safe.

I am still following Sandra's case (isn't MH supposed to be back in court tomorrow?) :sad: I also mentioned her on Tori's thread yesterday... It blows my mind that NO ONE can be trusted, not a neighbor (Polly Klass), not a Sunday school teacher (Sandra Cantu), not a mother (Caylee Anthony), not a father (Alycia Mestiti), and sadly way too many others. Unfortunately, I feel it's even worse with women, because we tend to let our guard down around them, especially those who are mothers themselves (MH).

[lune3]

I think back to Sandra Cantu's case. I don't know if some of you followed her case but who would've suspected the sunday school teacher? The neighbour. A woman.

Yes, sometimes we can't even trust our neighbours. We grew up fearing the creepy ugly strange looking men. Now it really doesn't matter. They come in all shapes, sizes, race, age and gender. It's a sick and sad world. God bless and help our children and keep them safe.

This also makes me think of Melissa Huckabee. It's chilling. I also have the sick feeling that this Terri Lynne has a much bigger and sinister part in this than the abduction and complicity in covering for Lafferty. And that she's only "cooperating" to save her own skin. I hope LE finds solid evidence that this savage is more involved than appears, plus I hope Lafferty talks about her part.

[tarabull1]

I'm confused about the dumpster. It's been 6 weeks. Unless they dumped clothing and evidence in the last week or so, wouldn't the dumpster's contents have been emptied long before?

riiiiiiight!

Point made! Trash dumpsters are usually picked up & dumped weekly NO?

Weird eh?

Unless Rafferty disposed of something lately, I say Rafferty since it sounds as tho Terri has been in custody.

I just heard they are searching a rock pile....she must have told them something about a rock pile....since last night we heard they were looking in one also....

Just speculating.

[mrsmcgoo]

I don't remember which place had the furniture in the porch, mattresses, carpet and such. It was one of the accused. I hope LE aren't too stupid that they wouldn't check this out for Tori's DNA. I know that is morbid, but I don't have an ounce of confidence in the LE to do this. :crying:

JMO

[mrsmcgoo]

Why would JG be hanging out at Terrilynns house? Was he wanting to "breed dogs", also?

Waiting on that answer also. :cursing:

[kelloggirl]

~snipped

"Police are also conducting a meticulous search of a garbage dumpster on a property north of Fergus. Police have cordoned off the dumpster with police tape and an officer is standing guard at the site."

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090520/stafford_search_090521/20090521/?hub=TorontoNewHome

another snip

"I can tell you that she is doing it voluntarily, she feels a real obligation to do this, and genuinely wants to help," Jeanine Leroy told CTV News on Thursday about Terri-Lynne McClintic."

Right, voluntarily and genuinely... :rolleyes:

ETA: "There is word that McClintic may face further charges later today."

If she really genuinely wanted to help and felt an obligation to help, she would've come forward within days of this happening. Give me a break!!!

I am concerned that they are falling into false assumptions because of her age and her gender. Fine, they need her cooperation now, but as soon as Tori is found, it is time to take off the kid gloves and get to the truth of what happened. Please, LE, don't assume women can't be evil and hurt children. Look at Casey Anthony. Especially, look at Melissa Huckaby and Sandra Cantu. Don't be short-sighted and let her get away with it if she is the ringleader.

[lune3]

I don't remember which place had the furniture in the porch, mattresses, carpet and such. It was one of the accused. I hope LE aren't too stupid that they wouldn't check this out for Tori's DNA. I know that is morbid, but I don't have an ounce of confidence in the LE to do this. :crying:

JMO

Both Lafferty and Terri lynn lived with a parent. I hate to say this but I think they took Tori elsewhere. I don't think Tori was in either of their homes. Lafferty evidently has a beat up Honda Civic (from one of the articles I read). I hope LE has seized that vehicle and is investigating for trace evidence.

[Lovethechild]

I wish we knew how LE knows for sure that Tori is dead..... Are they going on the word of these 2 A******'s? Maybe Pics??? barf

[mrsmcgoo]

Both Lafferty and Terri lynn lived with a parent. I hate to say this but I think they took Tori elsewhere. I don't think Tori was in either of their homes. Lafferty evidently has a beat up Honda Civic (from one of the articles I read). I hope LE has seized that vehicle and is investigating for trace evidence.

Hopefully they have! They seem to need a paint by numbers on how to get this crime solved though, so who knows.

:cursing:

[doctor_J]

Why would JG be hanging out at Terrilynns house? Was he wanting to "breed dogs", also?

We know why. Oxycontin. Hillbilly Heroin. The neighbors of Mcclintic were familiar enough with James G. to know his name. Tara blurted out yesterday that she had visited McClintic at least twice (so we can safely assume more), and Tori's best friend's mother heard Tara refer to Terri Lynn as a "friend". A 30 something mother is "friends" with a teenage wannebe gangster? We know Terri sold Oxy and Tara and James used it. It's now been reported, as suspected, that Tara was actively using during this interval when she claimed to be following the Methadone recovery program. I'm a supporter of Methadone clinics and have lobbied my state legislature for them (we don't). But a person who is denying that the drug has caused them problems is not in recovery.

There is a drug connection. I believe it will eventually come out that Tori was targeted or at least made extremely vulnerable because of the recklessness of associations required by addiction to this drug and those who abuse it. I think we have found the "mildly vindictive" relationship.

[beespence]

I'm confused about the dumpster. It's been 6 weeks. Unless they dumped clothing and evidence in the last week or so, wouldn't the dumpster's contents have been emptied long before?


We have a dumpster at our store and we only have it dumped upon request...when it is full ...I call and then they come and dump it.

[Lovethechild]

We know why. Oxycontin. Hillbilly Heroin. The neighbors of Mcclintic were familiar enough with James G. to know his name. Tara blurted out yesterday that she had visited McClintic at least twice (so we can safely assume more), and Tori's best friend's mother heard Tara refer to Terri Lynn as a "friend". A 30 something mother is "friends" with a teenage wannebe gangster? We know Terri sold Oxy and Tara and James used it. It's now been reported, as suspected, that Tara was actively using during this interval when she claimed to be following the Methadone recovery program. I'm a supporter of Methadone clinics and have lobbied my state legislature for them (we don't). But a person who is denying that the drug has caused them problems is not in recovery.

There is a drug connection. I believe it will eventually come out that Tori was targeted or at least made extremely vulnerable because of the recklessness of associations required by addiction to this drug and those who abuse it. I think we have found the "mildly vindictive" relationship.


Too good to snip.IF TRUE, I wonder why TLM would be "mildly vindictive".....Hmmm......

[Orleaner12]

at the moment Rodney and his family are staying mute on the drug issue and rightly so....but I think after Tori is found and buried etc. all hell will break loose...because I am sure it will be proven that Tara & James were either being supplied by Terrilynn or the reverse and even friendly with her and not just about the dogs mating, which is a lame excuse IMO... Tori knew her abductor there is no doubt...at the moment we have a little girl's body to be found and no doubt the Mother is hurting bad...I think the police will tread carefully at this time but I don't think it is all as clear cut as some would like to believe....
By the way Rodney is talking it almost appears that Daryn is with either him or his family...that's what I think......

[beemeup]

Any more word on the search? Where is the best place for updates-other than here? So many doing a terrific job here.

[VC2]

I think back to Sandra Cantu's case. I don't know if some of you followed her case but who would've suspected the sunday school teacher? The neighbour. A woman.

Yes, sometimes we can't even trust our neighbours. We grew up fearing the creepy ugly strange looking men. Now it really doesn't matter. They come in all shapes, sizes, race, age and gender. It's a sick and sad world. God bless and help our children and keep them safe.

i was thinking of Sandra today too. I don't think it matters who you are, what walk of life or if you know people that are what society calls "fine upstanding citizens" or those who have issues be it drugs or abuse or whatever.

Knowing a pastors daughter and grandaughter (her dad was a pastor too) led to the death of Sandra but of course there was no way to expect that. It doesn't matter that Tara knew McC. Be it bc of oxy, dog breeding, or anything else. No one, ever is going to think an 18 year old woman you know (or a 38 year old) is going to be responsible for abducting, sexually assaulting and murdering your 8 year old daughter. Wouldnt cross your mind.

This sort of crime is not an acquaintance one, in the way robbery is. There is no predilection you can guess at unless you belong to a pedophile ring yourself. Drugs don't make someone a pedophile or abduct a child, or a child murderer, neither does religion, neither does being a shopkeeper or a bar tender or a biker.

It is simply a tragedy for the family whomever they are and whatever their private demons might be. How they react publicly doesn't either. So long as they are trying to keep the story in the news, ensure that everone knows who their child is and what the perps look like over and over, and cooperate with LE as much as possible (i dont mean confessing when you didn't do it lol) is all that can be asked.

imo

[Orleaner12]

ws is a great site to look for updates....

[doctor_J]

I have not seen one blip on network or cable news here about this case, as bizarre and unusual as it is. Difficult to find anything on the web in the media except from Canada.

Here it's all Casey, all the time. Unbelievable. Must be still bringing in ratings even though there's nothing new in months. I don't get it.

Drew P. and Chris Coleman are getting a wee bit of airtime.

[Orleaner12]

i was thinking of Sandra today too. I don't think it matters who you are, what walk of life or if you know people that are what society calls "fine upstanding citizens" or those who have issues be it drugs or abuse or whatever.

Knowing a pastors daughter and grandaughter (her dad was a pastor too) led to the death of Sandra but of course there was no way to expect that. It doesn't matter that Tara knew McC. Be it bc of oxy, dog breeding, or anything else. No one, ever is going to think an 18 year old woman you know (or a 38 year old) is going to be responsible for abducting, sexually assaulting and murdering your 8 year old daughter. Wouldnt cross your mind.

This sort of crime is not an acquaintance one, in the way robbery is. There is no predilection you can guess at unless you belong to a pedophile ring yourself. Drugs don't make someone a pedophile or abduct a child, or a child murderer, neither does religion, neither does being a shopkeeper or a bar tender or a biker.

It is simply a tragedy for the family whomever they are and whatever their private demons might be. How they react publicly doesn't either. So long as they are trying to keep the story in the news, ensure that everone knows who their child is and what the perps look like over and over, and cooperate with LE as much as possible (i dont mean confessing when you didn't do it lol) is all that can be asked.

imo


she may have been a preachers daughter but her past is not so lily white....she was a problem for years....this current one is a stripper's daughter and she also has been a problem for years....one lived in a trailer park and the other in a rundown shanty in the seedier side of town....

[VC2]

snipped......

By the way Rodney is talking it almost appears that Daryn is with either him or his family...that's what I think......

i don't. In one of the links this morning, it was said that Daryn came out for a little while yesterday night on his bike before being called back inside by his step dad. This was at Tori's house.

imo

[Orleaner12]

i don't. In one of the links this morning, it was said that Daryn came out for a little while yesterday night on his bike before being called back inside by his step dad. This was at Tori's house.

imo

true.....I read that myself but also I saw an interview with Rodney last evening outside his Mother's home and when asked where Daryn was, he responded..."he is upstairs bawling his eyes out"....so I took that to mean he was with Rodney...it doesn't really matter...it is moot really...:wink:

[koawally]

Why would JG be hanging out at Terrilynns house? Was he wanting to "breed dogs", also?

It is stated in one paper that Tori's Mom and boyfriend were getting oxy C (drug like heroin) from the alleged female kidnapper.

The paper this was stated in is in the links pg

:sad:

[VC2]

she may have been a preachers daughter but her past is not so lily white....she was a problem for years....this current one is a stripper's daughter and she also has been a problem for years....one lived in a trailer park and the other in a rundown shanty in the seedier side of town....

uhh are you suggesting that sandra cantu was killed because she lived in a trailer park where a sunday school teacher lived with the pastor of the church there? That some how Sandra's mum should have known that by living in a trailer park there was something wrong with Huckaby? Or that people in trailer parks are somehow more likely to murder little children and sexually assault them?

I really don't understand your point. I expect a perps background to be less than lily white (even though rafferty has no criminal history) but that has nothing to do with expecting a woman who comes from what most consider extremely law abiding family including herself - a pastors granddaughter, daughter and herself a sunday school teacher - to be capable of murdering and assaulting a little girl. No parent would have foreseen that unless they were psychic.

and there are MILLIONS of people who can only afford to live in a poor part of town and would never consider harming a child.

and for the record trailer parks are often full of lovely homes, double and triple wides, hard working folk who enjoy the community of the park. In no way does a trailer park suggest income or lifestyle beyond the obvious, they chose to buy or rent a home in a trailer park.

IMO

[Amy]

Lovechild, everyone has a right to their opinions and nobody can force you to make an apology if you feel in your heart that Tara shouldn't get one. As for me, I made a public apology yesterday because I was wrong in suspecting her. Yes, perhaps we don't have the whole story yet but I ask you to read the Globe&Mail article posted.

The police were wrong. I was wrong and perhaps many of us here were wrong. Tara may not have been the perfect mother but how many of us are?

I don't want this post to turn out to be a Tara post because in my heart, I believe we, as a society have failed Tori. The police failed her. They should've issued the Amber Alert immediately. Yes I know hindsight is 20/20 but maybe a hard lesson is learned here. They should've known better. The first few hours when a child is missing are crucial. An 8 year old DOES NOT runaway. How many times have we said we hoped the police were doing a parellel investigation? Yes, keep watching the family but there's still that one in a million chance that this was a stranger abduction. They did NOT do that and it's only by the grace of God that they got the break they needed or we would never know what happened to Victoria Stafford.

I will quote Amber Dubois mom. Amber is a 14 year old in Escondido, California who is still missing. The police there told her that a stranger abduction is one in a million. Carrie replied....."This is the one in a million".

The police need to find her and bring Tori home. She deserves that much from them and from us.

There are probably 8 y/o kids who runaway. But, @ that age, they don't get far before they go back home, or go to a friend's house and call mom.

IMO, once Tara and Rodney told LE they did not recognize the woman with whom Tori was walking, it became an abduction because there was no parental consent or agreement for an unknown person to pick Tori up from school. It doesn't matter whether Tori was walking "willingly" or not--she was 8 years old. It wasn't Tori's "right" to make the decision with whom she would leave school--it was Tara's.

LE better make some changes to their protocol of determining what is an abduction and what is a runaway. And, when it comes right down to that--an 8 y/o runaway should get a heck of a lot of attention and searching from LE. A missing child is quite more helpless than a missing adult. Especially since the adult she left "willing" with did not immediately take Tori home or to LE once the news hit the airwaves, explaining that she had no idea that Tori did not have permission to leave w/her. (Altho, if she didn't talk to Tara herself, she obviously didn't have permission.)

[Amy]

Chief Fraser tried mightily to find a kernel of consolation in these awful events. "Perhaps there is some solace in knowing that, because of Victoria Stafford, every child in this city – and for that matter, this entire country – will be a little safer due to the heightened awareness of the need to better protect our children."

But people do forget, as time passes. Parents make mistakes. Sometimes the unthinkable happens, in a moment of craven opportunity.

And a child vanishes.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/637399




Too bad Chief Fraser didn't send this message out the day Tori disappeared. Child abductors were roaming the streets of Woodstock. Thank God there weren't other victims.


Perhaps, the solace should be that LE would change their stance on an 8 y/o "missing" child who may or may not be a runaway, or any age of a child. Where the holy heck would they think an 8 y/o girl would go? What resources would she have to be on her own? Her desk contents in her school pack? That would put what kind of food in her mouth, would provide her protection from the cold?

I don't know about your Amber Alert in Canada, but I think all missing children should be on an Amber Alert, even if all they have is a picture or a description of the child. If there is a description of someone that is tho't to be capable of abducting a child, or the last person known to be w/that child, it should be aired. There have been Amber Alerts where it is THOUGHT to be a non-custodial parent taking the child (even if it is not witnessed) and that person's description and the car s/he may POSSIBLY be driving are put out on an Amber Alert (as it should be.)

The reason given for some to not be afforded an Amber Alert is because there is no description of a vehicle. Who gives a rat's patootey? Put what information IS known out on an Amber Alert!!!

[beemeup]

[QUOTE=Orleaner12;13126770]ws is a great site to look for updates....[/QUOTE

Thanks so much-truly a heartbreaking case. I'm not far from Woodstock.

[koawally]

It is stated in one paper that Tori's Mom and boyfriend were getting oxy C (drug like heroin) from the alleged female kidnapper.

The paper this was stated in is in the links pg

:sad:

I went searching and found one of the links:

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090521/090521_stafford/20090521/?hub=CP24Home

Police said Wednesday that McClintic "may be familiar" with McDonald.

Tori's father Rodney Stafford said he believes the two, who lived only blocks apart, were acquainted through wanting to breed dogs.

A source told The Canadian Press that McDonald used to buy OxyContin -- which she has admitted to using in the past -- from McClintic.

:sad:

[Jester]

That's YOUR opinion.

It also seems to be the opinion of the police. They've arrested the people behind the kidnapping and murder of Tori, and Tara is not amongst those arrested.

[Amy]

I agree completely!

I live in Canada and have sent a few emails to the RCMP regarding this very issue. It leaves our children completely vulnerable to these creeps. It's not right and the response has been the same each time I had contact with the RCMP. They state that in infringes on the criminals rights, which peeves me to no end. It's like our children have not rights to be protected, and not even just children but adults also who may have a convicted rapist or any violent criminal living close by. This in particular is one of the things our Canadian judgical system needs to follow the US's lead.


JMO


As in many things, the "rights" of one have to be weighed against the "rights" of another. IMO, the right for parents to know what sex offenders live in their area so they can be more protective of their children certainly outweighs the rights of some POS who preys on children. The rights of MANY against the rights of one (unfortunately, there are many perps.) Children should be able to scamper and play about without fear of some POS molesting, accosting, abducting or doing anything else to them. A mom should be able to take her child(ren) to a park and to be able to turn her head to speak to someone without worry that when she turns back, her child has vanished.

In fact, IMO, these POS's should not be allowed to live anywhere but in prison for life. A pediophile does not change his spots. I haven't read anywhere where all those "programs" they attend do one lick of good. But, since LWOP doesn't seem to be in the cards any time soon, the least that can be done for the safety of children is for the parents to know who these POS's are when they move into the neighborhood, or near the school, or even just that they are in that town--cuz they can be walking about to a park or schoolyard, or residential area where they don't reside.

[doctor_J]

uhh are you suggesting that sandra cantu was killed because she lived in a trailer park where a sunday school teacher lived with the pastor of the church there? That some how Sandra's mum should have known that by living in a trailer park there was something wrong with Huckaby? Or that people in trailer parks are somehow more likely to murder little children and sexually assault them?

I really don't understand your point. I expect a perps background to be less than lily white (even though rafferty has no criminal history) but that has nothing to do with expecting a woman who comes from what most consider extremely law abiding family including herself - a pastors granddaughter, daughter and herself a sunday school teacher - to be capable of murdering and assaulting a little girl. No parent would have foreseen that unless they were psychic.

and there are MILLIONS of people who can only afford to live in a poor part of town and would never consider harming a child.

and for the record trailer parks are often full of lovely homes, double and triple wides, hard working folk who enjoy the community of the park. In no way does a trailer park suggest income or lifestyle beyond the obvious, they chose to buy or rent a home in a trailer park.

IMO

Ya know what? This board has functioned quite will and managed to abide by the TOS for several weeks now without a volunteer political correctness monitor. The attack was unwarranted.

If you had been keeping up with Orleaner12's posts all along you would know that s/he was not disparaging people who live in trailer parks but making a statement that people may appear normal but have very troubled backgrounds whether it shows on the surface(TLM) or not (MH).

[tarabull1]

LIVE update at lfp currently happening

and just to add: CP24 said ID UNIT called to rock pile and IS the same rock pile as yesterday BTW

[brooklinite]

Per CP24 news, McClintic is 'assisting' with the search. Forensic ident is processing a rock pile, and McClintic has left that specific area to go back in the air with OPP to 'look for additional scenes.'

[omsk99]

~Bolding is mine

"Several officers were dispatched to watch over the scene just north of Guelph, Ont. - a move that came as a shock to Dean Smith, whose property houses the bin.

He said he returned from work to find a commotion and told police they were welcome to search the bin, which he said is emptied every few weeks and had been used the previous night." :confused:

"Terri-Lynne, I had heard her name last year, speaking with Tara," Baker said.

"I had a friend who was going to buy the couch that Tara had, and that fell through and I remember (Tara) saying, 'Oh no, I'm going to give it to my friend Terri-Lynne.' "

"Tori and Baker's seven-year-old daughter Emma were best friends and would drag the table out from the backyard and have tea parties in front of her kitchen window all summer long, she said.

Since Tori went missing, Emma had been organizing all her stuffed animals, hoping that when Tori returned, they could have a tea party again, Baker said." :crying:

http://www.cjad.com/news/14/932085

[beemeup]

I dont like the fact that she is helping. Of course i want that poor child brought home where she now belongs. Having said that it just reeks of a plea deal. Do any of you have an email address that folks can write to and voice their opines. Especially the missing/abduction issue? I have exhausted my resources. I have some American friends who would like to be heard. Thank You

[Amy]

I am playing catch up here, sorry if this is posted and discussed. :blushing:

Tara McDonald and her s/o pointed LE in the direction of McClintic when the tape was released.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_34724.aspx


But in a stunning revelation that may explain how authorities were able to hone in on the suspects, McDonald recalled coming up with McClintic's name when she originally saw that video. She and her boyfriend both went to police, possibly placing investigators on the trail that would eventually lead them to the pair standing accused on Wednesday.



She was right about her, poor mother. What a nightmare! :sad:


I hadn't read that before. I all remember is Tara saying that she did not recognize the person, while Randy was thinking it looked like someone he knew in high school.

[Amy]

A quick question to our American and Far Abroad friends.... I was just wondering if Tori's story has been on your news channels yesterday/today?

I am curious to know if it is an story where you are?
thank-you

The only place I have seen about Tori's case is on message boards. But, I don't watch local news much, and what little I have lately, there is nothing about Caylee, Haleigh, Sandra nor Tori. I don't even know if Tori's case has been on NG--recently she has honed in on the Coleman case in IL. I think she has talked about Sandra, and for sure Haleigh and Caylee.

[Amy]

ITA :cursing: i said yesterday, LE had the video experts and could have matched mcclintic to the video since the neighbor figured it out!!!! They could have done it easily.

They just couldn't be bothered bc they thought it was Tara (whom i never saw a motive for and therefore felt was not involved) and seem to have ignored the real leads from others to the perp.

There will be an inquiry into how this case was handled imo. At least that is one thing we do here when it looks like cops screwed up royally.

It makes me sooo angry. From what they said, she was dead the first day but they didn't know that and if she was being kept alive for a while they deliberately ignored the lead to who took her. There isn't an emoticon that expresses what i feel

And, really, it didn't matter if Tori was dead within MINUTES of her abduction. She deserved to be found as soon as possible, for her sake, for the family's sake. And for the sake of all the children who remained @ risk because these POS's remained free, and for the sake of peace of mind of parents there. And, even for the LE's sake--think of how much manpower and resources they used. IMO

[doctor_J]

I hadn't read that before. I all remember is Tara saying that she did not recognize the person, while Randy was thinking it looked like someone he knew in high school.

Amy, this article is not talking about Tara and Rodney but a McDonald that was a neighbor of McClintic and suspected her. It is confusing McDonald=neighbor of suspect. MacDonald=Tori's mom.

[Amy]

I'm confused again. Didn't the GF direct them to the Guelph area? Or am I assuming when I shouldn't be :confused:

One of the first articles I was reading yesterday was that the gf was cooperating (or some such wording.) However it was worded, I had the impression that the gf was going to show them where they left Tori. Then I read about the searches and tho't maybe she could only direct them to the general area. I haven't read an article that says she is not cooperating. I do admit to not having read every single article.

[Amy]

Hi Skraps,

I have had Tori’s name on Google alert since the story first broke. As strange as it may seem this story has not been picked up world wide. There have been a few news reports in the USA and a couple in the UK but nothing like the Madeleine McCann or Natalee Holloway case.

I am not sure why. It could be because Canada is a relatively small country, population wise, but that does not seem to fit the bill.

I think it is more likely to do with the fact that the press is only willing to cover one story at a time. In the USA Caylee Anthony still fills the papers even though nothing new, or important, has been reported in six months. In the UK there has been a lot of news about a missing Chef, Claudia Lawrence. Australia and New Zealand seem to be focused on local stories as well.

The really sad fact is that worldwide, so many go missing at any given time, that only a small fraction of them will ever get any news coverage. We will only know about 1% of them. The other 99% will be missed just as much of course, but only by their family and friends.

I had asked the other day if Tori's story has been aired everywhere in Canada? The reason I ask is, if I wasn't involved in these message boards, the only one I would have known about thru local news was Laci Peterson. And,then, just a couple of times @ the beginning of the case, and I think around the time of trial.

I really didn't watch NG and that type of show until Laci came along (well, an actual NG show was later, but LKL and GVS.) There are many people even w/cable who don't watch HLN or CNN or that type of channel, so, if the case isn't local, they haven't heard about it.

[n/t]

For those who have followed the case from the beginning, I need your help...

Do you remember when Tara said one of her best friend was on the list to pick up Tori but she said she felt it wasn't right to reveal her name? IIRC, it wasn't Sara because this friend was someone who was a neighbour at the other place or lived close by and Sara had already made the news at the time.

Anybody remember that? Who is this best friend?:scared:

[Amy]

from Canadian Press...very reliable source... note what the woman Baker says about Terrilynn and the couch......

http://www.thecanadianpress.com/english/online/OnlineFullStory.aspx?filename=n052131A&newsitemid=211868319&languageid=1

Somewhere in articles posted on this thread (or it might have been the one just previous to this, on the last page) it is reported that Tara had been to the house (altho the neighbor quoted who had seen James on more than one occasion, hadn't seen Tara) and had seen there was little furnishings and had offered to give TLM some of her furniture.

I also see @ the bottom of the article the mother of the disabled child (we now know has Asperger's Syndrome) says that her child walked to school w/Daryn and Tori everyday. So, that is to school, maybe there was a different arrangement for after school? Trying to figure out the afterschool walking arrangement was rather confusing--did Tori normally walk home w/them? Or, did Tori normally wait @ the school for Daryn to come back by and they walk home together.

[Orleaner12]

For those who have followed the case from the beginning, I need your help...

Do you remember when Tara said one of her best friend was on the list to pick up Tori but she said she felt it wasn't right to reveal her name? IIRC, it wasn't Sara because this friend was someone who was a neighbour at the other place or lived close by and Sara had already made the news at the time.

Anybody remember that? Who is this best friend?:scared:

n/t Rodney was asked that question in one of the PC's and I believe he answered that is was someone from the co-op where Tara had lived and that person had kids of her own and was trustful..

our favourite two reporters from LFP today mentioned that there were a few reporters from their newspaper scouring Woodstock today to try and talk to friends and places etc. ..here's betting that they will be checking out good old Charlies bar......:wink: a hangout for both Tara and B/F and the perp......

[days of yore]

For those who have followed the case from the beginning, I need your help...

Do you remember when Tara said one of her best friend was on the list to pick up Tori but she said she felt it wasn't right to reveal her name? IIRC, it wasn't Sara because this friend was someone who was a neighbour at the other place or lived close by and Sara had already made the news at the time.

Anybody remember that? Who is this best friend?:scared:

Yes, but it didn't relate to McClintic, though. It was actually a lady, who had kids of her own, that lived near them in their old co-op.

[n/t]

I had asked the other day if Tori's story has been aired everywhere in Canada? The reason I ask is, if I wasn't involved in these message boards, the only one I would have known about thru local news was Laci Peterson. And,then, just a couple of times @ the beginning of the case, and I think around the time of trial.

I really didn't watch NG and that type of show until Laci came along (well, an actual NG show was later, but LKL and GVS.) There are many people even w/cable who don't watch HLN or CNN or that type of channel, so, if the case isn't local, they haven't heard about it.

There was a lot of coverage early on, Amy but not on American Television except for a short segment on AMW (less than a minute) Then, it started to lose focus. There is no doubt people were suspecting Tara and imo so did the media and the police. We slowly started to see the story disappear on National news. CTV which is our National News station stopped the coverage and only reported the bits from Tara's PC's. All media coverage became local. Woodstock Sentinel and London Free Press (who would have the daily live streams of Tara's PC's).

I noticed the winds of change in the media coverage right before and after the AMW short segment and it went downhill from there. People suspected Tara and people thought this was either a money scam and Tori was alive or mom murdering her daughter as in the Karissa Boudreau case. When the truth started coming out about Tara's drug addiction, it only got worse. Nobody expected this.

The "people" included me, BTW. I suspected Tara.

[n/t]

Yes, but it didn't relate to McClintic, though. It was actually a lady, who had kids of her own, that lived near them in their old co-op.

Thanks. I never knew or heard anything else about this woman and it's something I thought about as I was driving home. Glad we can rule her out as being on the list, then.

Tori's on my mind all the time. :sad:

[doctor_J]

For those who have followed the case from the beginning, I need your help...

Do you remember when Tara said one of her best friend was on the list to pick up Tori but she said she felt it wasn't right to reveal her name? IIRC, it wasn't Sara because this friend was someone who was a neighbour at the other place or lived close by and Sara had already made the news at the time.

Anybody remember that? Who is this best friend?:scared:

I remember well, n/t. We talked a lot about the "3 names" and that it was strange that she wouldn't say but I figured she was protecting them from public suspicion and LE knew anyway. Who knows?

I wonder if Tara and James came clean with LE about their drug habits and coughed up their dealers. Seems if McClintic had been mentioned by Tara early as a Oxy supplier then she would have been scutinized much sooner because she had a history with police, outstanding warrants, a probation violation with re-incarceration, and a mother that just might have had a legal prescription for Oxy that was being diverted by Terri.

Seems to me Terri deliberately disquised herself as Tara to pick Tori up without turning heads at school. She might have been privey to knowledge that Tori was going to walk alone that particular day. Just how much communication did Tara and Terri have??? Was Terri a regular supplier? Sounds like it. Did Tara "give" her the sofa or "sell, barter,trade" the sofa? Was Terri satisfied with the deal or feel shorted?? Lots of questions come to mind. She would not have dressed and worn her hair like Tara's if she was planning on just grabbing any unlucky child.

[n/t]

n/t Rodney was asked that question in one of the PC's and I believe he answered that is was someone from the co-op where Tara had lived and that person had kids of her own and was trustful..

our favourite two reporters from LFP today mentioned that there were a few reporters from their newspaper scouring Woodstock today to try and talk to friends and places etc. ..here's betting that they will be checking out good old Charlies bar......:wink: a hangout for both Tara and B/F and the perp......

I've never been to Woodstock, Orleaner but I bet Good Old Charlies Bar is the most popular bar in town.

Let's say for the sake of discussion Tara and BF knew these people as friends or acquaintances. So what? THEY DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO ABDUCT AND MURDER THIS BEAUTIFUL CHILD. I don't care if they were Tara's drug dealers or whatever. THEY HAD NO RIGHT TO TAKE A CHILD'S LIFE AWAY.

They're scum. Cowards. Monsters. Evil. I hope they rot in hell.

[doctor_J]

I've never been to Woodstock, Orleaner but I bet Good Old Charlies Bar is the most popular bar in town.

Let's say for the sake of discussion Tara and BF knew these people as friends or acquaintances. So what? THEY DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO ABDUCT AND MURDER THIS BEAUTIFUL CHILD. I don't care if they were Tara's drug dealers or whatever. THEY HAD NO RIGHT TO TAKE A CHILD'S LIFE AWAY.

They're scum. Cowards. Monsters. Evil. I hope they rot in hell.

I think everyone agrees on this.

[n/t]

I remember well, n/t. We talked a lot about the "3 names" and that it was strange that she wouldn't say but I figured she was protecting them from public suspicion and LE knew anyway. Who knows?

I wonder if Tara and James came clean with LE about their drug habits and coughed up their dealers. Seems if McClintic had been mentioned by Tara early as a Oxy supplier then she would have been scutinized much sooner because she had a history with police, outstanding warrants, a probation violation with re-incarceration, and a mother that just might have had a legal prescription for Oxy that was being diverted by Terri.

Seems to me Terri deliberately disquised herself as Tara to pick Tori up without turning heads at school. She might have been privey to knowledge that Tori was going to walk alone that particular day. Just how much communication did Tara and Terri have??? Was Terri a regular supplier? Sounds like it. Did Tara "give" her the sofa or "sell, barter,trade" the sofa? Was Terri satisfied with the deal or feel shorted?? Lots of questions come to mind. She would not have dressed and worn her hair like Tara's if she was planning on just grabbing any unlucky child.


DJ, I respect you and we've been here for weeks together. I have to totally disagree with you that Terri disguised herself as Tara. We even thought Sara was the abductor.

I will say though that I think Terri may have met Tori and Tori knew her as mom's friend and that's why we see her willingly going with this woman but again, she's an evil person to do this to an 8 year old little girl. Someone who trusted her. Someone who Tori thought was mommy's good friend. It's absolutely the most disgusting and unforgivable of all crimes.

[Orleaner12]

I've never been to Woodstock, Orleaner but I bet Good Old Charlies Bar is the most popular bar in town.

Let's say for the sake of discussion Tara and BF knew these people as friends or acquaintances. So what? THEY DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO ABDUCT AND MURDER THIS BEAUTIFUL CHILD. I don't care if they were Tara's drug dealers or whatever. THEY HAD NO RIGHT TO TAKE A CHILD'S LIFE AWAY.

They're scum. Cowards. Monsters. Evil. I hope they rot in hell.

I haven't either n/t...been to Woodstock that is and I agree that being friendly with these two did not give them that right...but it did put little Tori in harms way...if in fact the friendship was based on drug purchasing and if in fact Tori was acquainted with this unsavoury couple....to date we don't know the extent of that friendship...it could have been just a business dealing for the Oxy or as per the Baker lady a closer relationship...Maybe Tara took pity on her because of her life and it just evolved from there.......who knows at this point but I am sure it will eventually come out in the wash....

just saw a newsclip from Woodstock on my local news...OMG that was the mother of Terrilynn sitting on her stoop with no teeth....and tattoo's ...she told the reporter to "F" off:w00t:

[n/t]

I think everyone agrees on this.

I was watching HLN and they showed a segment of that low life SOB who threw the little baby out of his moving car. As he came out of the police van and about to walk into court, he told the baby's mom that he loves her. We see the mom throw herself on the floor, crying hysterically at the courthouse.

Did she deserve to have her child murdered because she made a mistake getting involved with this guy?

I won't even type what I think should happen to these people who murder children because I'll get banned but believe me, it's not a slap on the wrist w/ life in prison which includes a hot meal 3x a day, exercise time and even computer time to write letters to their crazy supporters.

[Orleaner12]

Just thinking...yesterday's reports say that TLM moved to Woodstock 2 months ago to care for her mother, who is terminally ill with cancer.
(Perhaps in March?)

If that is the case...how long have JG and TM been associated? The neighbour, Baker, said she remembers hearing TLM's name last year!??

Scratching head...

Could TLM's mother be involved? I just saw her on CBC news and she looked as though she had track marks on her arms...


Terrilynn's grandmother was interviewed yesterday and she told the reporter that Terrilynn had been back in Woodstock for a couple of years but she had had no contact with her...The grandmother is on the adopted father's side....maybe she only moved in with her Mother a couple of months ago....

[cantstandnuts]

Opps...didn't notice the new thread....thanks..n/t.



I just need to get a few things off my chest.


It's a shame that this thread has become "heated". Those of us with a unpopular theory, are afraid to post it. One or two posters even have the gall to try and make us feel bad for suspecting Tara. One even going so far as to say we "owe" her(tara) and apology. Where are we? In grade school? I think we are forgetting that we don't know the whole story yet. That being said....we will just have to agree to disagree.....Lets just leave it at that.


Have a nice day :)

Personally, I really do feel bad for suspecting Tara and I wish I could tell her I'm sorry for having felt that way, regardless of how she may have behaved that "caused" me to have those feelings. I know it's probably human nature to suspect as we do, but I still feel bad about not having given her the benefit of the doubt. I didn't post anything about my suspicion and I didn't go on facebook and openly accuse her, but I still feel bad for her because she was in fact innocent and it has to be hell for her, pure hell.

All in all, I just feel sick. This crime was sick. Tori was beautiful and now she's gone and I feel awful. And I would have to multiply that by I don't even know how many times to be feeling what Tara's feeling, so I do feel sorry for having suspected her.

JMO.

[n/t]

I haven't either n/t...been to Woodstock that is and I agree that being friendly with these two did not give them that right...but it did put little Tori in harms way...if in fact the friendship was based on drug purchasing and if in fact Tori was acquainted with this unsavoury couple....to date we don't know the extent of that friendship...it could have been just a business dealing for the Oxy or as per the Baker lady a closer relationship...Maybe Tara took pity on her because of her life and it just evolved from there.......who knows at this point but I am sure it will eventually come out in the wash....

just saw a newsclip from Woodstock on my local news...OMG that was the mother of Terrilynn sitting on her stoop with no teeth....and tattoo's ...she told the reporter to "F" off:w00t:

Maybe it did or maybe it didn't. I don't know. But you know what? We just have to take a look at other cases....Jessica Lunsford. Mark was crucified by the public because he had tattoos and was a biker. Danielle Van Dam....people thought her parents murdered her and all sort of accusations were thrown at them including being swingers and hanging out with wrong crowds.

Both these children were tortured and murdered by strangers.

I could go on and on and on....:sad:

[cantstandnuts]

For those who have followed the case from the beginning, I need your help...

Do you remember when Tara said one of her best friend was on the list to pick up Tori but she said she felt it wasn't right to reveal her name? IIRC, it wasn't Sara because this friend was someone who was a neighbour at the other place or lived close by and Sara had already made the news at the time.

Anybody remember that? Who is this best friend?:scared:


Do you think it was TLM?

[n/t]

Do you think it was TLM?

I thought it could've been but this friend apparently had children of her own. Thanks to those who replied.

[Orleaner12]

I followed the Lunsford crime and I never thought for a minute that the father was involved.....Jesicca was taken from her bed while her grandparents slept and Mark was at his girlfriends..He came across as another Rodney in all his interviews and I for one never suspected him...the only one I did suspect at first was maybe the grandfather..I remember how the Florida cops were called "Keystone" because of the blunders in that case....to think they searched the perps house across the street while Jesicca was still alive and did not find her..... the other crime....no I did not suspect the father who was the only one home at the time but I certainly did not approve of THEIR open marriage and lifestyle....

[Orleaner12]

wow she has herself one top lawyer......wonder who's paying for this...

http://www.jleroylaw.com/

[cantstandnuts]

I thought it could've been but this friend apparently had children of her own. Thanks to those who replied.


Happy Belated Birthday, N/T...just saw it.

[n/t]

wow she has herself one top lawyer......wonder who's paying for this...

http://www.jleroylaw.com/

Us.:cursing:

[n/t]

Happy Belated Birthday, N/T...just saw it.

Thank you. One I will remember forever.

[cantstandnuts]

Thank you. One I will remember forever.

Yes, I'm sorry for that. But, everyone is glad you're here, so remember that your birthday is also cause to celebrate. And although little Tori isn't coming home the way people had prayed she would, at least there are some answers coming and this family will not have to wonder what happened to her for the rest of their lives. That's something. :rose:

[Aussie Gal]

OPP confirms that the dumpster contains 'items of interest' in relation to Tori's disappearance.
Newsworld Live

Has anyone seen anymore news on this?

[doctor_J]

DJ, I respect you and we've been here for weeks together. I have to totally disagree with you that Terri disguised herself as Tara. We even thought Sara was the abductor.

I will say though that I think Terri may have met Tori and Tori knew her as mom's friend and that's why we see her willingly going with this woman but again, she's an evil person to do this to an 8 year old little girl. Someone who trusted her. Someone who Tori thought was mommy's good friend. It's absolutely the most disgusting and unforgivable of all crimes.

I first thought this case was related to something like MBP as one possibility but suspected serious drug addiction. I didn't feel like I could make that suspicion known without getting myself banned because there was no evidence. Once it was in the open, my theories revolved around various and sundry possibilities opened up by my personal and professional knowledge of what that involved. Tara's direct involvement in the murder has been eliminated and for that I am grateful. But the possibilities involving her and James' associates because of their addiction still exist and in fact early reporting is pointing in that direction. I never bought into the Tara recovery due to Methadone, fighting her addiction thing, simply because of her own denial of consequences. It's looks even more like she and James are in active addiction.

Having said that, I in no way at this time, think that Tara could have foreseen or even suspected that TLM could have possessed this kind of evil. At most, she may have suspected she could be putting herself in danger and should have recognized and admitted that being under the influence of powerful narcotics while supervising/driving/attending children effects motor, judgement and cognitive ability and therefore endangers your kids. Not to mention, taking your child around drug dealers shows less that responsible judgement.

There is no way she could have seen this coming and I do not hold her accountable for not seeing that. At this time, I don't see her having any criminal liability.

However, I, personally have no regrets about my suspicions about Tara. I don't approach these boards in any thing but an objective, scientific manner. If I got personally and emotionally involved, I wouldn't do it. The police have to play the statistics and rely on the parents behavior to guide their investigation. If they did not approach cases in that manner, they would be wrong 90+ percent of the time. I look at it the same way.

I feel sorry for everyone who loved this child and for the community at large. I sympathize with WoodstockMom and all mothers who have to add more to their fear list. Mostly I feel for Tori who lost her future. But I have no tears for taking a scientific approach to solving a murder case. Sometimes it feels good to be wrong.

We've yet to see to what extent anyone was wrong. Somehow I doubt Rodney's family is feeling like Tara and James hold no fault and never put Tori in danger with their lifestyle.

[days of yore]

Thanks. I never knew or heard anything else about this woman and it's something I thought about as I was driving home. Glad we can rule her out as being on the list, then.

Tori's on my mind all the time. :sad:

I'm just really baffled as to how McClintic got Tori to walk with her willingly, without any struggle, or notice taken by someone at the school?? I mean, if she didn't know her, wouldn't it take a little convincing, in the least???




------------------------------------------------------------------
Hug your kids hard tonight and watch 'em like a hawk. They're irreplaceable!

[VC2]

I haven't either n/t...been to Woodstock that is and I agree that being friendly with these two did not give them that right...but it did put little Tori in harms way...if in fact the friendship was based on drug purchasing and if in fact Tori was acquainted with this unsavoury couple....to date we don't know the extent of that friendship...it could have been just a business dealing for the Oxy or as per the Baker lady a closer relationship...Maybe Tara took pity on her because of her life and it just evolved from there.......who knows at this point but I am sure it will eventually come out in the wash....

just saw a newsclip from Woodstock on my local news...OMG that was the mother of Terrilynn sitting on her stoop with no teeth....and tattoo's ...she told the reporter to "F" off:w00t:

I saw that!!! she was foul. both mouth and attitude!

[VC2]

I'm just really baffled as to how McClintic got Tori to walk with her willingly, without any struggle, or notice taken by someone at the school?? I mean, if she didn't know her, wouldn't it take a little convincing, in the least???




------------------------------------------------------------------
Hug your kids hard tonight and watch 'em like a hawk. They're irreplaceable!

i dont think it would be hard at all. She didn't even have to know Terri Lynne. Most little girls think of men when told to never go with a stranger, but a nice woman who can come with all sorts of stories like "your mom asked me to come and get you because she had an accident" or "can you come help me find xxx street and i will drive you home"?

she is 8 years old. i doubt it would occur to her that this woman was any danger at all even if she had never seen her, and if she had then for sure not.

[justmy2cents]

I'm just really baffled as to how McClintic got Tori to walk with her willingly, without any struggle, or notice taken by someone at the school?? I mean, if she didn't know her, wouldn't it take a little convincing, in the least???




------------------------------------------------------------------
Hug your kids hard tonight and watch 'em like a hawk. They're irreplaceable!

MOO I believe with all the talk of breeding and TM being at TLM;s house regarding breeding it would be reather easy for TLM to see Tori at school, say hi remember me Terri - lynn i'm your moms friend,remember we were trying to have Cosmo have babies with my dog, well she is having the puppies right now, your mom is there come on lets go see.

[mrsmcgoo]

As in many things, the "rights" of one have to be weighed against the "rights" of another. IMO, the right for parents to know what sex offenders live in their area so they can be more protective of their children certainly outweighs the rights of some POS who preys on children. The rights of MANY against the rights of one (unfortunately, there are many perps.) Children should be able to scamper and play about without fear of some POS molesting, accosting, abducting or doing anything else to them. A mom should be able to take her child(ren) to a park and to be able to turn her head to speak to someone without worry that when she turns back, her child has vanished.

In fact, IMO, these POS's should not be allowed to live anywhere but in prison for life. A pediophile does not change his spots. I haven't read anywhere where all those "programs" they attend do one lick of good. But, since LWOP doesn't seem to be in the cards any time soon, the least that can be done for the safety of children is for the parents to know who these POS's are when they move into the neighborhood, or near the school, or even just that they are in that town--cuz they can be walking about to a park or schoolyard, or residential area where they don't reside.


I agree! It's not fair that children are not protected better in our country. We need to push for a data base. I have no idea if this perp had any history, but regardless we need to get going on this and make it happen!

[justmy2cents]

one other quick note, Daryn is going to need extensive councelling, I can almost hear him now saying if only I walked her home, if only I made her come with me, if only. I know when my daughter fell and cut her lip outside my son who was 10 a the time was devistated and kept blaming himself.

The guilt is something that will never leave him, just another reason for the whole country to want to see these two fry....:cursing::cursing::cursing:

[n/t]

DJ, I think Rodney feels a lot more guilt than probably Tara and James do. He wasn't there to protect her like a daddy should but I won't get into that because I've posted my feelings about Rodney before and none of them, not Tara, Rodney nor James should suffer the pain of losing a child regardless of the choices they made.

Most of all, I think of Daryn and the guilt he must feel for not walking his little sister home that day. I hope and pray that he gets the professional help he needs.

I'm just a stranger to Tori and I feel hurt, frustrated and very sad but I prayed and hoped she was safe every single day. I just can't imagine what her family must be going through right now.

Please God help them find her so she can be brought home.

DJ, you have a wealth of knowledge about drug addiction and mental disorders and illnesses. Please know that even if we don't agree on certain aspects of this case, I appreciate your contribution and most of all for caring about Tori and what happened to her.

[n/t]

Interesting article

Women rarely aid abduction, killing of kids, expert says

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/637386

[n/t]

It's getting dark out and still no news. :sad:

[ellegna]

I apologize if others have mentioned this already, but the more I hear about these two, the more inclined I am to think that she was the one to do away with Tori.

He obviously is sick and twisted, but as far as killings go, I'm getting the impression that she is the one that is capable of doing so. I certainly hope (as others have mentioned earlier), that she doesn't get off easy just for helping, or implicating Rafferty. As a society, it is natural that we are tend to believe that only the male is capable of such horrific acts, but in this case, I wonder if after he finished with her, McClintic did the final deed.

So sickening. God Rest Tori's Soul.

I so agree with you.

We were discussing this case at work today and my coworkers and I came to an agreement McClintic was the mastermind and killed Tori. Her boyfriend appears to be a wimp and we couldn't see him harming Tori but at the same time did not have the b@lls to stop his girlfriend from doing so.

[Hope4Tori]

n/t just scrolled and saw that you posted the same article I found. . .about female abductors . . .

Hey everyone! Hope you are all well this evening!

I bought the Toronto Star Newspaper today which devoted almost the entire front page and several pages of the news section Tori's story - indepth coverage and a compilation of several articles, in addition the those I had posted early today. The posted many photos of Tori and her grief stricken family.

They posted photos and profiles of accused (articles posted earlier). Didn't want to put this info in the same sentence as Tori and her family.

I hope we all remain united here - as we have been all along - because our opinions all come from a place of wisdom, concern and compassion no matter what views we happen to express. I am not going to post more (do I hear the cheers rumbling across the net?) but I wish you all a peaceful heart knowing that although we may not always agree, when we disagree, we do it because we trust the members here and do not question one another's integrity. Thanks for all your wonderful posts today and nightie night! "wubs" to you all!

Update - I'm so slow by the time I press submit I'll probably see it here already!

RS just commented on CP24 that he still has hope for Tori being found alive, but now that Terri-Lynn is "helping" . . . hope is fading.

RS is a broken man, IMO.:wub:

TM has now returned to her home but made no statement to press - but people on her behalf have communicated that she is devastated! :wub:She will never be the same, IMO.

May Tori be found and returned to her family so that she may be laid to rest and forever know eternal peace and love!:wub:

[Missti]

:rose:I had asked the other day if Tori's story has been aired everywhere in Canada? The reason I ask is, if I wasn't involved in these message boards, the only one I would have known about thru local news was Laci Peterson. And,then, just a couple of times @ the beginning of the case, and I think around the time of trial.

I really didn't watch NG and that type of show until Laci came along (well, an actual NG show was later, but LKL and GVS.) There are many people even w/cable who don't watch HLN or CNN or that type of channel, so, if the case isn't local, they haven't heard about it.

I am in Northern Ontario - approx 600 miles from Woodstock where Tori lived.

From the day she went missing it was on the National news, seen here on three channels, as well as our local station news. It was also in our local paper.

Within two days - her Missing posters were seen on the store fronts of Gas stations, 7-11 and Mac's stores - the most popular places. Our local Walmart also has the bulletin boards with missing posters - Tori's poster was also on the entrance and exits of the Walmart store (I saw it within the week of her going missing).

One of the biggest things here in Canada - every store that sells Lottery tickets has a "video" screen - which has a rotating message - Tori was on there as well - so anyone in the store waiting in line would see her picture come up every few minutes as well.

I read the Canada news (on Google) daily - and noticed stories in papers all across Canada - especially the larger centres.

Just thought I would share what I noticed...

Missti

:rose: For Tori

[doctor_J]

:shrug:I am curious as to why LE came out with a statement that Tori had been killed probably within an hour. Without a body, they have nothing but the suspect's word as to TOD.

Maybe it's based solely on compassion for family and community.

[n/t]

n/t just scrolled and saw that you posted the same article I found. . .about female abductors . . .

Hey everyone! Hope you are all well this evening!

I bought the Toronto Star Newspaper today which devoted almost the entire front page and several pages of the news section Tori's story - indepth coverage and a compilation of several articles, in addition the those I had posted early today. The posted many photos of Tori and her grief stricken family.

They posted photos and profiles of accused (articles posted earlier). Didn't want to put this info in the same sentence as Tori and her family.

I hope we all remain united here - as we have been all along - because our opinions all come from a place of wisdom, concern and compassion no matter what views we happen to express. I am not going to post more (do I hear the cheers rumbling across the net?) but I wish you all a peaceful heart knowing that although we may not always agree, when we disagree, we do it because we trust the members here and do not question one another's integrity. Thanks for all your wonderful posts today and nightie night! "wubs" to you all!

Update - I'm so slow by the time I press submit I'll probably see it here already!

RS just commented on CP24 that he still has hope for Tori being found alive, but now that Terri-Lynn is "helping" . . . hope is fading.

RS is a broken man, IMO.:wub:

TM has now returned to her home but made no statement to press - but people on her behalf have communicated that she is devastated! :wub:She will never be the same, IMO.

May Tori be found and returned to her family so that she may be laid to rest and forever know eternal peace and love!:wub:

Thanks for the updates H4T. Sleep well. Hoping Tori will be found and brought home tomorrow.

[days of yore]

"I found a puppy, I think it might be yours."

I agree that it is definitely possible, but judging by the video, Terri went right up to the school to get Tori. I just find it weird that no one took note of the fact that there must have been a few seconds taken to 'set the stage' for the comfort level to be established.

Reports said earlier, that the fact that Tori was Tara's child was a co-incidence. Terri said that she didn't even know that Tara had a child. Was this report just a rumour? I believe I read it in one of the online news reports.

If this is the case, I would expect that there would be about 25 seconds where Terri would be trying to establish a rapport with Tori. Didn't it seem like, in the video, that Terri went right up to the school??!?! Definite balls there. I do think that Tori went too easily for there not to have been a prior connection....



----------------------------------------------------------
Hug your kids hard tonight and watch 'em like a hawk. They're irreplaceable.

[n/t]

:shrug:I am curious as to why LE came out with a statement that Tori had been killed probably within an hour. Without a body, they have nothing but the suspect's word as to TOD.

Maybe it's based solely on compassion for family and community.

I don't understand that either but I do have a theory and it's not one that looks good on LE.

They're covering their behinds, imo. They screwed this one up.

We'll wait and see.

[n/t]

Do you all remember when Rodney made that comment about Tori being at the playground (?) and she was seen by other kids? We all questioned why he hadn't gone to the police about it?

I wonder if that was true. :sad:

[Aussie Gal]

I agree that it is definitely possible, but judging by the video, Terri went right up to the school to get Tori. I just find it weird that no one took note of the fact that there must have been a few seconds taken to 'set the stage' for the comfort level to be established.

Reports said earlier, that the fact that Tori was Tara's child was a co-incidence. Terri said that she didn't even know that Tara had a child. Was this report just a rumour? I believe I read it in one of the online news reports.

If this is the case, I would expect that there would be about 25 seconds where Terri would be trying to establish a rapport with Tori. Didn't it seem like, in the video, that Terri went right up to the school??!?! Definite balls there. I do think that Tori went too easily for there not to have been a prior connection....



----------------------------------------------------------
Hug your kids hard tonight and watch 'em like a hawk. They're irreplaceable.

She must have known that Tori wouldn't be getting picked up that day!
If it was random how was TLM to know the childs mother wasn't behind her or something. Would she risk walking off with a child whose mother could have been close by? I hope this makes sense... It seems she was taken straight after school not like Tori was hanging around the school when most people had left....

[days of yore]

As usual, I jumped in without reading previous posts. I wasn't suggesting Terri was a stranger to Tori, just a way to get her to go. A quick yell of her name could have gotten Tori over to her.
imo

I am so afraid for Tara's already fragile state. The guilt she must be feeling would be overwhelming. God bless them all....

[doctor_J]

I don't understand that either but I do have a theory and it's not one that looks good on LE.

They're covering their behinds, imo. They screwed this one up.

We'll wait and see.

Whoa!! I didn't consider that.

On the Rodney statement, I've missed that one I quess.

[n/t]

She must have known that Tori wouldn't be getting picked up that day!
If it was random how was TLM to know the childs mother wasn't behind her or something. Would she risk walking off with a child whose mother could have been close by? I hope this makes sense... It seems it was taken straight after school not like Tori was hanging around the school when most people had left....

The biggest question STILL is who was supposed to pick up Tori that day and/or was she supposed to walk home alone.

I don't think we ever got an answer. There have been conflicting statements.

1) Daryn was going to get her after he walked the other child.

2) She was going to walk home alone.

3) She was supposed to go to her uncle's house.

[Orleaner12]

oh oh........

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530396.html

[doctor_J]

I am so afraid for Tara's already fragile state. The guilt she must be feeling would be overwhelming. God bless them all....

I doubt it. She would have felt it before now.

Besides she's not chemically capable of experiencing much in the way of pain. Those receptors are flooded with methadone, if not Oxy. It takes at least 6 months for the brain to be able to re-establish those chemical capabilities after de-tox.

[n/t]

Whoa!! I didn't consider that.

On the Rodney statement, I've missed that one I quess.


:wink:

At a news conference, police defended their decision not to call an Amber Alert, the Canadian emergency broadcast system used when children are believed abducted and at risk of harm.

"The criteria of Tori's reported disappearance did not meet the criteria of the Amber Alert," Chief Fraser said. "The amber alert would not have made any difference."

"Having said that we utilized the local media as fast as we could to get the information out."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/20/9510591-sun.html

[n/t]

oh oh........

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530396.html

Ouch! Unbelievable. OMG! They told Daryn that he better go to school or he'd end up like his mother. :scared:

This is disgusting!

[tarabull1]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/21/9523146-cp.html

[snipped...] Only about a kilometre away from the farmer's field, police sealed off a large garbage bin, calling it an item of interest.

Several officers were dispatched to watch over the scene - a move that came as a shock to Dean Smith, whose property houses the bin.

He said he returned from work to find a commotion and told police they were welcome to search the bin, which he said is emptied every few weeks and had been used the previous night.

"I have a nine-year-old daughter. It's sickening," he said.

Ontario Provincial Police Commissioner Julian Fantino told Toronto radio station CFRB that evidence led police to search the area.

[Orleaner12]

another.....

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530511.html

[n/t]

another.....

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530511.html

WTH is going on? :scared:

[Orleaner12]

Ouch! Unbelievable. OMG! They told Daryn that he better go to school or he'd end up like his mother. :scared:

This is disgusting!


I am sure all of this was taped and on video and I am sure a child protection officer was present.....

[north-eh]

"I found a puppy, I think it might be yours."

ITA I think this is how Terri lured Tori so willingly away. If it is true and we don't know this yet, but if Tara was indeed speaking to Terri about breeding dogs, this very well could have been how she got her to go with her.
But better story to give a child...I found a puppy, wanna see?
I sure hope they find her little body soon.
:crying:
N

[Orleaner12]

WTH is going on? :scared:

I saw a blip from CTV tonight and I swear I saw yellow crime tape around the house (Tara's that is)... I think it is a little too soon for her to be trashing the police......

[Gugug]

I agree that it is definitely possible, but judging by the video, Terri went right up to the school to get Tori. I just find it weird that no one took note of the fact that there must have been a few seconds taken to 'set the stage' for the comfort level to be established.

Reports said earlier, that the fact that Tori was Tara's child was a co-incidence. Terri said that she didn't even know that Tara had a child. Was this report just a rumour? I believe I read it in one of the online news reports.

If this is the case, I would expect that there would be about 25 seconds where Terri would be trying to establish a rapport with Tori. Didn't it seem like, in the video, that Terri went right up to the school??!?! Definite balls there. I do think that Tori went too easily for there not to have been a prior connection....



----------------------------------------------------------
Hug your kids hard tonight and watch 'em like a hawk. They're irreplaceable.

Seems unlikely that she didn't know. You see, she offered Tara a bed because Tori didn't have one. That is what came out in news stories today. Maybe that's what TLM told police, because that's what earlier news reports said.

Someone else asked the question: Who was the friend of Tara's that was authorized to pick up Tori?

[n/t]

I am sure all of this was taped and on video and I am sure a child protection officer was present.....

I don't understand. Why would CPS be there taping it?

[Orleaner12]

ITA I think this is how Terri lured Tori so willingly away. If it is true and we don't know this yet, but if Tara was indeed speaking to Terri about breeding dogs, this very well could have been how she got her to go with her.
But better story to give a child...I found a puppy, wanna see?
I sure hope they find her little body soon.
:crying:
N

seriously if you had a meeting with Terrilynn's Mother about breeding your dog, after that first meeting and seeing the condition of both her and her house would you bother with the third meeting (as Tara said in her interview with LFP today)......not buying that at all from Tara.....

[n/t]

I saw a blip from CTV tonight and I swear I saw yellow crime tape around the house (Tara's that is)... I think it is a little too soon for her to be trashing the police......

No way. Please tell me it isn't so.

Was the outburst because she knew what was coming down? :scared:

I'm shocked. Maybe they were arrested because they lashed out at the police?

[Gugug]

I doubt it. She would have felt it before now.

Besides she's not chemically capable of experiencing much in the way of pain. Those receptors are flooded with methadone, if not Oxy. It takes at least 6 months for the brain to be able to re-establish those chemical capabilities after de-tox.

Well, Christie Blatchford reported in the Globe and Mail that Tara crushed an Oxycontin pill and snorted it before one of the press conferences.

[Orleaner12]

I don't understand. Why would CPS be there taping it?

not sure but it looked like yellow tape to me starting at the sidewalk...if you check the CTV news site there are a dozen or so interviews on video on the left side of the page...it was in one of those...I could be wrong and stand corrected if so but.........

[n/t]

Seems unlikely that she didn't know. You see, she offered Tara a bed because Tori didn't have one. That is what came out in news stories today. Maybe that's what TLM told police, because that's what earlier news reports said.

Someone else asked the question: Who was the friend of Tara's that was authorized to pick up Tori?

I asked that question earlier but apparently the woman had children of her own.

OMG! Now I'm having doubts again.

[Orleaner12]

ETA....sorry the RIGHT side of the page......also in one of those interviews with Terrilynns mother it ends with the landlord at the place saying she called the police and the mother was evicted tonight...you see her walking off with a bag and the dog.......

[n/t]

not sure but it looked like yellow tape to me starting at the sidewalk...if you check the CTV news site there are a dozen or so interviews on video on the left side of the page...it was in one of those...I could be wrong and stand corrected if so but.........

CTV Toronto?

[Orleaner12]

here is the link

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090520/stafford_search_090521/20090521?hub=Toronto

[doctor_J]

See what I mean about Tara and feeling Pain. She's ANGRY. Rodney said she "seemed kind of upset" WTH????

Every time she opens her mouth she contradicts herself. It took 3 visits to McClintic's home to recognize that her dog was not a Shih Tzu??? Tara never spoke to Terri but referred to her as a friend and conducted some sort of sofa and bed transaction??? She didn't know Terri but brought up her name as a new person in their lives immediately??

That dog won't hunt.

[Gugug]

Ouch! Unbelievable. OMG! They told Daryn that he better go to school or he'd end up like his mother. :scared:

This is disgusting!

Why does Goris refer to Tori as "the little girl"?

[n/t]

ok....whew! This must be why she was taken to the police station

Missing girl: Police seek mom's help for Tori's DNA
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530511.html

[Orleaner12]

I don't understand. Why would CPS be there taping it?



child was underage....don't you think the police would protect themselves...a child could say anything....I would bet anything that child protection officer was there to protect the child and the police and I am sure all would be on video....

[days of yore]

Seems unlikely that she didn't know. You see, she offered Tara a bed because Tori didn't have one. That is what came out in news stories today. Maybe that's what TLM told police, because that's what earlier news reports said.

Someone else asked the question: Who was the friend of Tara's that was authorized to pick up Tori?

As far as we know (from Tara & Rodney), that this woman was a mother herself, and lived near them in the old co-op.

[doctor_J]

I can't find any video of Terri Lynn's mother. Anyone got a link??

[n/t]

Missing girl: Police mum on body search

Police were mum about what Terri-Lynne McClintic led them to today in a farmer’s field 15 km northeast of here — whether it’s the remains of murdered Grade 3 student Victoria Stafford or evidence in the case.


http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530591.html

[VC2]

Ouch! Unbelievable. OMG! They told Daryn that he better go to school or he'd end up like his mother. :scared:

This is disgusting!

ITA! i hope they sue! They had better have a video tape of the interview for tara's attorneys. That is awful and to interview him with neither guardian is despicable. Yes certain questions about if there had been any sexual abuse in the home may need to be asked but it should be done by a qualified child interviewer in such a way that the child doesn't even realize what is being asked, and none of those would disparage a childs parents to him.

[n/t]

ITA! i hope they sue! They had better have a video tape of the interview for tara's attorneys. That is awful and to interview him with neither guardian is despicable. Yes certain questions about if there had been any sexual abuse in the home may need to be asked but it should be done by a qualified child interviewer in such a way that the child doesn't even realize what is being asked, and none of those would disparage a childs parents to him.

Add the school board to the list.....


Missing girl: School dismissal procedures under spotlight

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530116.html

[Gugug]

Missing girl: Police mum on body search

Police were mum about what Terri-Lynne McClintic led them to today in a farmer’s field 15 km northeast of here — whether it’s the remains of murdered Grade 3 student Victoria Stafford or evidence in the case.


http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530591.html

It's my bet that since Goris and Tara McDonald were taken away in a police car, they are going to ID the remains.

[n/t]

It's my bet that since Goris and Tara McDonald were taken away in a police car, they are going to ID the remains.

I would hope they would ask Rodney to go though. He stayed behind with Daryn. I think the father should've been the one and not the boyfriend. Why wouldn't they have broken the news to Rodney that her remains were found?

Ack! Anything is possible. I have no faith in them. They did everything backwards. :angry:

[doctor_J]

It's my bet that since Goris and Tara McDonald were taken away in a police car, they are going to ID the remains.

No way. She is not recognizable if she died the 8th. Maybe clothes or bag.

[n/t]

I can't find any video of Terri Lynn's mother. Anyone got a link??

Did you try the link Orleaner posted? The CTV one?

I couldn't get the 6 o'clock news update video. I kept getting an error message :shrug:

[doctor_J]

If they left unexpectedly in a cruiser, it's for an interregation.

[Hope4Tori]

I first thought this case was related to something like MBP as one possibility but suspected serious drug addiction. I didn't feel like I could make that suspicion known without getting myself banned because there was no evidence. Once it was in the open, my theories revolved around various and sundry possibilities opened up by my personal and professional knowledge of what that involved. Tara's direct involvement in the murder has been eliminated and for that I am grateful. But the possibilities involving her and James' associates because of their addiction still exist and in fact early reporting is pointing in that direction. I never bought into the Tara recovery due to Methadone, fighting her addiction thing, simply because of her own denial of consequences. It's looks even more like she and James are in active addiction.

Having said that, I in no way at this time, think that Tara could have foreseen or even suspected that TLM could have possessed this kind of evil. At most, she may have suspected she could be putting herself in danger and should have recognized and admitted that being under the influence of powerful narcotics while supervising/driving/attending children effects motor, judgement and cognitive ability and therefore endangers your kids. Not to mention, taking your child around drug dealers shows less that responsible judgement.

There is no way she could have seen this coming and I do not hold her accountable for not seeing that. At this time, I don't see her having any criminal liability.

However, I, personally have no regrets about my suspicions about Tara. I don't approach these boards in any thing but an objective, scientific manner. If I got personally and emotionally involved, I wouldn't do it. The police have to play the statistics and rely on the parents behavior to guide their investigation. If they did not approach cases in that manner, they would be wrong 90+ percent of the time. I look at it the same way.

I feel sorry for everyone who loved this child and for the community at large. I sympathize with WoodstockMom and all mothers who have to add more to their fear list. Mostly I feel for Tori who lost her future. But I have no tears for taking a scientific approach to solving a murder case. Sometimes it feels good to be wrong.

We've yet to see to what extent anyone was wrong. Somehow I doubt Rodney's family is feeling like Tara and James hold no fault and never put Tori in danger with their lifestyle.

ok folks just one more because IMO it is something that needs to be addressed. . . .

Doctor J - :wub: You and I have often openly disgreed about the case - the characters and motivations - but I think it must be said by me, and I am only speaking for me, that you have been tremendously informative about so many "scientific" subjects while posting here and I have expressed my thanks to you for all your many insightful posts because I found the information you shared and spent endless hours explaining in great detail was very helpful to me!

I'm sure you are well aware that I am no idiot about the ways of the world - but I do have a certain idealism that cannot be denied. I am so very appreciative of your support and acceptance of my views even when I was probably driving you (and many others crazy) because you always showed me respect and often offered your support for my "feelings" when stating your own convictions about Tori's case. Heck, it was you Doctor J who admired that Hope is my drug of choice. Yesterday, our hope for Tori was cruelly crushed and as I said it is indeed a dangerous drug! Still I cannot give up the addiction - I don't imagine the world in all its unkindness will ever overpower my need to hope!

I think I might know how you and others are feeling these past couple of days because I remember feeling a little intimidated at first about challenging others opinions when mine did not concur with the popular view. But you know, for better or worse, I said what I believed to be the truth - and sometimes my opinions wavered - because that's what sometimes happens in an open forum where views are expressed and others' opinions influence change. It's all good.

I can recall many posts when you stated your worst-case-scenario opinion and you also stated that you would love to be wrong! You hoped you would be wrong. I believed you then and I believe you now.

Perhaps I am the type of person whom should run away fast from any involvement in Tori's case because admittedly I have a strong emotional attachment and that it painful for me to deal with . . . but I am a big girl and I will cope. My worry is now for Tori - I want to see her come home to rest - and for Daryn, Tara and Rodney, the grandparents, and all the extended families of Tori!

IMO, discussion boards need the cold hard facts and those skilled to analyse them and they also benefit need the more subjective types whom may add a needed dimension to the analyses. I am still a newbie here compared to you and so many others, so what do I really know? I know that for me it always comes down to how I feel if I have to choose. Having said that I am more than grateful for everyone here's imput and have learned so much since I have participated in our joint effort to "search" for hope and justice for Tori!

Lovethechild, Orleaner, yourself and so many others I cannot name them all here, have made invaluable contributions, IMO, to Tori's cause and have always hoped along with all of us here only for the very best.

And one more thing and I just don't want to have this perceived in any way as a jab - I just really don't want to open another post tonight . . . VC2 I love reading your opinions and insofar as the types of people that TM and/or JG had in their lives, even possibly the accused - I think tonight about the heroes of this story - the selfless and determined neighbours - in what I consider to be a less than wholesome neighbourhood, JMO - if I had seen these people anywhere I may have misjudged them as not the types I would want to have around my children or grandchildren - but damn - I would have been so wrong - these very people continued to add pressure on LE and the accused and even drove to London to do their own sleuthing - that is worth a medal and a HUGE reward!

We will not get any medal or reward for having cared about Tori but each of you to me are Tori's heroes too!:wub:

Sorry . . . I will get some sleep now and everyone keep the Hope for Tori because I can feel it - she's going to come home and she will know eternal rest in peace and love!:wub:

[doctor_J]

Did you try the link Orleaner posted? The CTV one?

I couldn't get the 6 o'clock news update video. I kept getting an error message :shrug:

There's about 20. Know which one, counting down the list??

[n/t]

I'm off to bed too, H4T. Good night all.

Tori :rose:

[lune3]

If they left unexpectedly in a cruiser, it's for an interregation.

My understanding is that they were asked to find belongings, shoes etc, and that tooth to bring to the police station.Police picked them up, took them home....unless you are talking about a new development,

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530511.html

"Police also asked for any shoes of Tori, or recent items that might provide DNA, Goris said, calling the task a "grim" one.


Police picked up them up, drove them to the house and gave them a ride home, Goris said. "

[mrsmcgoo]

I would hope they would ask Rodney to go though. He stayed behind with Daryn. I think the father should've been the one and not the boyfriend. Why wouldn't they have broken the news to Rodney that her remains were found?

Ack! Anything is possible. I have no faith in them. They did everything backwards. :angry:

Wonder if it is to question them about the relationship between TLM and them? Not sure, but doesn't make sense to leave the father. Especially when he appears to be the stable parent. :confused:

[Missti]

I can't find any video of Terri Lynn's mother. Anyone got a link??

I don't have a link for it...but just saw it on the CTV news here...

couldn't understand a word she said - she has no teeth - she mumbled/yelled something - I couldn't tell ya what it was.

She could use a bra too....wow - it was scarry.

If these people are on "social assistance"....benefits include a drug card, which provides free prescription medications - including Oxy's - which could be why she/they are selling them. It's a common event here - they get the pills free and make big bucks on them - those things sell for up to $10 bucks a pill on the street.

Back to the mom - the dogs she had sure didn't look like something to be bred - I have a pure bred ****zu and mine looks nothing like the dogs this woman had on the news tonight. IMO.

I get the feeling that there is a much bigger link between these families that will eventually come out.


Missti

[Orleaner12]

There's about 20. Know which one, counting down the list??


okay the third one down shows the yellow tape starting on the sidewalk...the video's keep breaking up so it take a long time to get through them but there is one there that was shown tonight and it shows the mother on the stoop with dog..then the landlady arrives with police and they evict the old dame who is shown leaving with the dog (poor dog, where is SPCA) and a bag...the landlady is the Mother of the Jesicca McDonald who reported all this to the police in the very early days.....as per neighbours in the area the police have been called there on numerous time.. (before any of this happened)...they say there are two dealers in the three apt. block....

[doctor_J]

Good nite, H4T. Boy do I agree with you about those neighbors in the unsavory neighborhood. They went far beyond their civic duty. They are heroes!

[doctor_J]

Missti ----Far more than $10/pill. $1-$2/mg starting at 20 mg up to 180 mg.

And the dog is no Shih Tzu. Hope he has food and good place to sleep tonight. (her, too, but my heart goes to the helpless creatures)

[Orleaner12]

Good nite, H4T. Boy do I agree with you about those neighbors in the unsavory neighborhood. They went far beyond their civic duty. They are heroes!


yeah regular little snopes:thumbsup: but I wonder how long they were keeping tabs on her as wasn't Terrilynn picked up by police on the 12th of April and taken into custody... I doubt if they saw her on the 8th so they had two days to observe her.......that makes me go hmmmmmmm also....

[Orleaner12]

Missti ----Far more than $10/pill. $1-$2/mg starting at 20 mg up to 180 mg.

And the dog is no Shih Tzu. Hope he has food and good place to sleep tonight. (her, too, but my heart goes to the helpless creatures)


yes as bad as the old thing looks and if it is true about her cancer one can't help feeling sorry about her.. I am sure someone will step in in the community to help her find a bed... it almost seems like they were squatters in that place to begin with...not sure how the police could evict her if she was paying her rent on time...but was she????