May 16 thru 5/18

[n/t]

Yes, but it would've been more dignified for her to stay out of sight, listen to the interview and then respond next time if necessary.

lol at Auntie Pepper!

I don't remember Rodney claiming to be "Super Dad"!


No, quite the opposite. He admits not being there for his kids in the past. I think what Tara was referring to were people making him out to be "super dad" when in fact he wasn't until Tori disappeared. It sounds like she's very bitter that he wasn't there for them for "9 years" according to her and now he's perceived as the caring and loving father and she's the bad mother because of all the things about her past coming to surface.

Which makes me wonder if Rodney was geting his life together for the sake of his kids and fight Tara for full custody?

Would that be a motive? Did Rodney threaten to take the kids away from her?

[n/t]

I think she wanted to know if he was saying anything 'bad' about her! She was prepared to respond! Auntie Pepper was at the door too!

I wondered who it was at the door. Auntie Pepper is the one who organized the bike ride, right? What's her relation to Tara? Did we ever figure it out? :unsure:

[n/t]

I watched the surveillance video again. I'm so frustrated that we still don't know who was supposed to pick up Tori that day or what she was supposed to do afterschool. Wait for her brother? Was she told to walk home alone? Why did Tara say she thought Tori got lost?

[M_J]

Starting new here, not sure why the other one closed?

Have a good day all. Hoping for Tori's return today.:wub:

[justmy2cents]

wow i am trying to catch up since yesterday afternoon, alot of great ideas and theories....... You guys really are awesome:thumbsup:

Heres my opinion as to the blow up between Rod and Tara.
- is he a good dad , not in the past but is tryin now. A sad case of you don't know what you got til its gone.
- drug user, weed? ( that's what i caught from the interview yesterday)
- he has tried to be upfront and as honest as he can.
- he has done private interviews
- do we know all about his past
- he does try to keep Tori the main objective in the interviews

now for Tara
-is she a good mom, same as Rodney, not in the past but tryin now ( i haven't walked in her shoes i don't want to judge)
- drug user, Yes (its the not being upfront about it that is causing all the uproar, i believe the public would have been very supportive if she was upfront from the begining.
- she is not being upfront and honest. (come on guys to not even for a second admit that the sketch looks like her friend Sara)
- her private interviews are about HER,
- Tori doesn't seem to be the main objective of her interviews.

She has said and done numerous weird things during her interviews, the susan smith comparison has been mentioned on more then one occassion, I also have noted that during the pressers whenever Tara takes it to another off Tori avenue Rodney either clears his throat or sighs. This blow up has been brewing a long long time.

I think they are both under tremendous (sp) pressure and the communication between them is pooh. I'm sorry but these parents are not on the same page nor are they really working together.

anyway: just my 2 cents

[Hope4Tori]

April 8th 2009 – At approximately 3:32 / 3:37 (time stamp on video?) Victoria (Tori) Stafford was captured on video (video retrieved by LE from College Avenue Secondary School (CASS) April 9/09) walking in front of Caressant Care Nursing Home on Fyfe Avenue, Woodstock with unidentified suspect/abductor?

TM - stated that approximately, 4:15pm on April 8, 2009 - DS was first to arrive home alone? TM has stated she was at home at that time. Had DS or other children seen Tori at all after school? What was his and Tori’s expectation that day? – did they both know that DS would walk disabled friend(s) home? - and if Tori was aware of this, where was she supposed to be waiting for DS? Was she supposed to be waiting for him or was she allowed to walk home alone? When DS saw that Tori was not at the schoolyard waiting for him – was he concerned? – or had he not expected to see her until he arrived at home? Did he ask around the school if anyone had seen Tori? Did DS rush home immediately to let TM know he could not find Tori? TM had stated that she and DS both expected that Tori would arrive home soon after DS and initially were not that concerned. When TM became concerned that Tori was not yet home, whom did TM call? – and at what time? – Was JG home at 4:15? If not when was he notified that Tori had not come home? When was RS and LW notified that Tori had not come home? Did TM ask for help to search the neighbourhood to look for Tori? If so, whom did she ask? Where did TM search and what time was it that these things were done? TM has stated that she and LW met a police officer in front of the school? and was told another young child, a boy, had also been reported missing that afternoon, but had already been located? – LE officer suggested that LW go to police station to file a missing person’s report about Tori? Tori was reported as missing at LE station by LW at a few minutes after 6:00 pm that day? Were there any 911 calls prior or at the same time to report Tori’s disappearance? If so by whom? If not, why not? When LE were formally notified, then what happened? Did police attend the house? Did JG search the neighbourhood or make calls? When RS was first notified of Tori’s disappearance did he search the neighbourhood or make calls? Did TM, DS, RS, JG, LW any or all of them think Tori got lost or went after school to a friend’s house? Were all possible known locals / friends / neighbours / teachers / of Tori’s notified and questioned by family members and/or LE?

TM – said she dropped by to visit her Grandfather (name?) at Caressant Care Nursing Home on the afternoon of April 8th (noon / 12:30 pm?) for a brief period of time (10/15 minutes?) to bring him soft fudge? – Has anyone publically confirmed having seen TM there on that day at that time?

What vehicles do TM, RS, JG, LW, and all other family and / or friends drive or have access to use?

TM had commented that on April 8th during the afternoon, prior to the time Victoria went missing, she had helped her (uncle) clean out a van? Why? Which uncle? Where was he headed after the van was cleaned out? How is he related to Tori? Has LE inspected the van? and thoroughly questioned the uncle?

RS – Stated he was late leaving his high school class that day, and RS was as stated by TM and RS both, expected to pick up Tori (and DS?) after school / later perhaps?, after her planned? home-movie-date (High School Musical 3) with Tori’s friends was finished – TM said there was no set time for the movie to be finished, and the movie/friends play date after school was mentioned to Tori that morning but was not yet confirmed? Did TM see Tori on the morning of April 8th ? Did TM speak to Tori in person about the after school play date? Did she speak to Tori on the phone if Tori had been at LW’s that morning to discuss a play date after school? Did TM contact Tori’s friends’ parents during that day to get permission for Tori’s friends to visit TM’s house after school – if so whom are those contacts and can they be verified? If not, why not? If the play date had been confirmed, were other children and/or parents expecting to walk home that day with Tori to her house? Did any parents of the children Tori was supposed to have to her house to watch the movie call TM to discuss arrangements? Had Tori mentioned the movie play date to any of her teachers and/or friends while at school during that day?

Did LW, Tori’s maternal grandmother (TM’s mother) drop off Tori to school that morning? – by car? –on foot? If so, DS as well or just Tori? Had Tori and DS been together at home on the evening of April 7th? Or were they together at LW’s house on the 7th? Did Tori stay at LW’s house without DS? Had LW been told by TM or others that Tori (and/or DS?) did not need to be picked up on April 8th after school by her or anyone else? Was LW aware that Tori was allowed to walk home alone and if so, did that concern her? Was Tori’s plans after school ever discussed with LW? If Tori had stayed with LW the previous night April 7th, was Tori’s Bratz bag a sleepover kit or a regular purse backpack? Did Tori leave the house that morning with one bag or two? Was Tori dropped off at school with anything else? Was her favourite purple blanket packed inside the backpack/purse?

Was it typical for Tori to wear skirts to school or was she more dressed up than usual that day? Has LW had in the past or does she now have formal or informal custody of Tori and/or DS? If not, has she tried to gain custody either formally through the courts or informally by asking for permission to do so directly to TM and/or RS? Is she now or has she been in the past concerned about Tori and or DS’s safety and well-being due to TM’s, RS’s, or JG’s lifestyle or behaviour? Have any formal complaints been made by LW and/or others directly to LE, CAS, or others with regards to concerns about Tori and DS’s care in the past? Does RS have joint custody of Tori and/or DS? If not, what is the nature of access to Tori and/or DS? Does he have supervised or non-supervised visiting rights with Tori and/or DS? Does Tori have a birth certificate and/or a passport and if so are these items missing? If they exist and one or both is not missing, has this been confirmed by LE?

[Hope4Tori]

Did TM, RS, JG, LW, DS or anyone else notice anything unusual about computer use by Tori and/or DS in the days or weeks prior to Tori’s abduction? Was Tori behaving in any way different than usual in the days or weeks prior to Tori’s abduction? Was there conflict in the home or between Tori and/or RS and/or TM and/or JG and /or DS and /or LW (or any combination of the 6) in the days prior to Tori’s disappearance? Did Tori feel insecure about the change of residence? Did Tori ever mention wanting to live with LW or RS or others? Is the CAS involved currently or have they in the past been involved in investigating any family member, friend, associate regarding any alleged concerns with respect to Tori’s well-being and/or safety?

Are any of the following people drug addicted (in treatment or currently using)?: TM, JG, RS, LW, or other close or loosely associated family members?

What is known about TM’s and RS’s: (past/present): Partners, Parents/In Laws, Step Parents, Grandparents, Partner’s Parents, Brother(s) /Brother(s)In Law/Step Brother(s), Sister(s) / Sister(s)In Law/Step-Sister(s), Cousin(s), Uncles, Aunts, Neighbours, Work Associates (past/present), Friends (past/present), School Associates (past/present) and whom among them had access to Tori and DS? Whom among them would have reason to hurt TM and/or RS and/or JG and/or DS and/or LW – or others - by taking Tori away? Whom among them would want to hurt Tori by taking her away from her family? Whom among them would want to protect Tori by taking her away from her family?

What is known about TM (past/present)? Who is TM’s ex boyfriend(s)? Is there more than one ex? Have alibis been provided and if so have they been established as credible for any of these people? Did TM have a good or poor reputation in Woodstock prior to Tori’s abduction? If not, why not? Does she have a criminal record? Does he have any known enemies? Does she now or in the past use/abuse drugs?

Re: TM’s known friends: Who is Sarah G? Who is Sara L? - Who is R. Knecht (n/n Roxxy)? - Other friends, school, work associates (past/present)? What is known about these people in relationship to TM and/or RS and/or JG and their extended family members and do they have access to Tori and DS (past/present)? Have alibis been provided and if so have they been established as credible for any of these people?

VS - What is the nature of her computer use? Does she have “friends” online?
TM – What is the nature of her computer use? Does she have “friends” online?
RS - What is the nature of his computer use? Does he have “friends” online?
DS - What is the nature of his computer use? Does he have “friends” online?
JG - What is the nature of his computer use? Does he have “friends” online?
LW - What is the nature of her computer use? Does she have “friends” online?

What is known about RS?: Who is RS’s ex-wife? Is there more than one ex-wife? ex-girlfriend? More than one ex-girlfriend? Does RS have other children from previous or current relationships? Does RS have a current girlfriend? What is known about RS’s friends, school work associates (past/present)? Have alibis been provided and if so have they been established as credible for any of these people? Did RS have a good or poor reputation in Woodstock prior to Tori’s abduction? Does he have a criminal record? Does he have any known enemies? Does he now or has he in the past has he used/abused drugs? Why was he absent over the years from Tori’s and DS’s lives?

Whom is responsible financially for Tori and DS’s care? Whom is responsible for Tori and DS’s physical and emotional well-being?

What is known about JG? What is known about JG’s family – Mom, Dad, Sister(s), Brother(s), friends, school, work associates (past/present)? Who is JG’s ex-girfriend(s) /partner(s)? Is there more than one ex? Does JG have other children from previous or current relationships? Have alibis been provided and if so have they been established as credible for any of these people? Did JG have a good or poor reputation in Woodstock prior to Tori’s abduction? If not, why not? Does he have a criminal record? Does he have any known enemies? Does he now or has he in the past has he used/abused drugs?

What is known about LW? (past/present)? What is known about LW’s family – friends, school, work associates (past/present)? Does LW’s have current or ex-boyfriend(s) /partner(s) (now living)? Is there more than one ex? Have alibis been provided and if so has it been established as credible for LW? Did LW have a good or poor reputation in Woodstock prior to Tori’s abduction? If not, why not? Does she have a criminal record? Does she have any known enemies? Does she now or in the past use/abuse drugs?

Re TM – Was the family dog injured accidentally? If so on what date? Were some people told or mislead to believe that the dog was missing when it was actually known to be at the vet’s? Was this a rumour or the truth? If the truth, why lie about the dog to others? Were some people told that the dog was at the vet getting treatment at the time it happened? Was DS told the truth about the dog from the beginning? When the dog injured what were the circumstances? Was the dog ever expected to come back home?

[Hope4Tori]

My message to Tori’s family/friends/associates: It is my opinion, that other than or in addition to holding daily press conferences, conducting print, tv, radio interviews, Fwall reading/commenting, bike rally, community gatherings, fundraisers, balloon ceremonies, poster making and posting – you may find it useful to consider some other approaches that could be made by any of the family/friends/associates that may make a significant difference in helping to find Tori? Has anyone contracted a private investigator(s) to look for Tori? Have any private investigators offered their services to the family? Are the family/friends and associates of Tori willing to fully cooperate with LE and be completely frank about all details of their lives that could potentially, if revealed, hold clues that may help find Tori? Have teams of volunteers been organized to brainstorm? – with the full disclosure of all pertinent details? – have teams of volunteers been organized to search the Woodstock and surrounding areas?– every day? – have teams of volunteers been organized to go door to door? – store to store? – school to school? asking questions of real people and asking for any real help to find Tori? IMO, people would love to see the family take some action – get out in the community everyday and look – talk about Tori – come on the computer to actually brainstorm ideas and leads – don’t try to intimidate well-meaning people who are concerned about Tori and willing to help by talking about lawsuits and shutting down the growing internet communities devoted to helping find Tori – IMO that approach is not helpful. Free speech – without fear of what is being discussed – is what may help find Tori, IMO – and I wonder why anyone would not want and be thankful for that kind of help.

In my opinion, it is time for the secrecy to stop and the truth to be told. IMO, The public is more than willing to do whatever possible to help. The public wants to empathize and understand the family/friends/associates and many people can relate to their human frailties and would refrain from harsh judgement if they felt they were not being mislead with useless and/or distracting or misleading information, IMO.

IMO, the public would gladly offer our genuine support, if we the public had the feeling that the facts were actually being shared honestly by all appropriate parties, without those parties being concerned more about protecting their own privacy and/or reputations and by demonstrating that their only concern is finding Tori alive and having the chance to see her rescued from whomever and wherever she may be, IMO. That type of forthright attitude and information that could prove highly useful and family/friends/associates would actually gain respect of the public, IMO, but it seems to me that it is so far, being actively withheld, IMO.

It’s time for everyone involved in Tori’s life, to cut the crap and stand up and face the public with the truth, IMO. Who cares what people will say or think or write about you if it helps to find Tori? Really – do you care? There is nothing, IMO, that could happen to any of you for being completely honest that has not happened already, IMO, since the worst is the fact that Tori was abducted by someone! Tori is still out there – that’s all that matters – or all that should matter to those whom actually know her and love her, IMO. Maybe instead of thinking about how bad it is to have the public’s attention and subsequent criticism and “negative” focus on family/friends/associates of Tori, you could realize that all everyone wants is to focus on Tori to help find her, IMO. But instead of genuine appreciation for the public’s concern and willingness to spend our own free time to help you to help find Tori, whom is a total stranger to the vast majority of the public, IMO, you seem suspicious of the public’s motives and criticize people for commenting on your choices when you MUST know that your choices are YOUR responsibility and no one else’s, IMO. IMO, other people’s opinions of you cannot hold any importance whatsoever in contrast to Tori’s circumstance, IMO. Family/friends/associates – put yourselves in Tori’s shoes for a moment – it is her feelings that take precedence over everything else until she is found, IMO.

I cannot fathom how anyone who loves Tori cannot understand and appreciate that complete strangers to the situation are on computer’s every day – in the hundreds – even thousands – making sacrifices of time and energy that could be spent with our own families and friends – all because we do feel so sad and sorry for Tori and her many loved ones and we want to help find Tori. No one wants to be unfair or judgemental – so please just start being open and stop being so self-concerned and paranoid about our interest and accept our helping hands, hearts and minds – we want to help you – still – and time is ticking folks – this is a serious thing – please do whatever you humanly can to help the public help you and hopefully – ultimately – and SOON – Tori will be rescued in time. Wishing the family and friends of Tori all the best –and my heart and thoughts and hope continue for Tori’s safe return home to her loved ones!:wub::wub::wub:

[justmy2cents]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

way to go h4t

[days of yore]

H4T, that was brilliant! I actually didn't know that Rodney admitted to being late coming from High School class that day?!?

Since their blowup happened and a lot of animosity came from the fact that Rodney hadn't been around, or didn't do a lot of what he said he was going to do for the kids, I am still leaning towards Tara hiding Tori away to be "mildly vindictive" to Rodney.

A couple of choice words from her:

1) when asked why she think someone would take Tori, her response was that 'she felt that someone was doing this to be mildly vindictive and now that things have gotten so out of hand, they didn't know what to do'.

2) She also blurted something like 'why would I protect Tori and not Daryn, too'...which I am starting to take as "protect them from being hurt by a father who doesn't do what he says he is going to do for his kids"

3) The blow up: ALL about what Rodney has not done for his family & the fact that Tara has done it all to keep it together without the help of Rodney and he isn't "Super-Dad", like everyone thinks.

I really am beginning to think that we will find Tori alive and Tara might be doing her best to survive her drug habit, which may be exacerbated by the stress of what a mess this has become....

Praying for the best!! :smile:

[Lorelei]

I really am beginning to think that we will find Tori alive and Tara might be doing her best to survive her drug habit, which may be exacerbated by the stress of what a mess this has become....

Praying for the best!! :smile:

When Tori is found, I doubt very much she will be brought directly to her parents. No doubt the police will hold her, and she will have tons of social workers and counselors talking to her. Tori may be just 8 years old, but she seems to be a smart and mature kid. And even tho she may not be able to articulate like an adult, she would still be able to remember what happened to her. Unless she was drugged :(

[doctor_J]

Been here reading, good work H4T, nothing to say but I hope she is found alive and well today. Wanted to speak to all Tori's (and my) IS friends!

[days of yore]

When Tori is found, I doubt very much she will be brought directly to her parents. No doubt the police will hold her, and she will have tons of social workers and counselors talking to her. Tori may be just 8 years old, but she seems to be a smart and mature kid. And even tho she may not be able to articulate like an adult, she would still be able to remember what happened to her. Unless she was drugged :(

I agree with you...one thing that has always stuck in my mind from Const. Maitland's last PC was her response to a question that was asked from a reporter.

She was asked something to the effect of 'how it makes her feel, being a human & a local'. Her response, IMO, spoke volumes. It was something like 'looking forward to having her back'. Most people say something like "hoping for her to come home safe", or bring her back home safely", or "back to her parents", etc. Const. Maitland just said "back". Didn't mention home, or family....

Could be my mind working overtime, but it spoke volumes to me, while hearing nothing from the police.

[virgogal]

WOW H4T...When does your mind ever rest??

Fabulous job!

[Orleaner12]

I pinched this from another site..so credit to whoever found it but it appears there was another brother so why does Tara say she is an only child...

Obituary Archive Search Results
Displaying 1 to 4 of 4 results found. search
2008-07-14 - Scott Jeffery MCDONALD of Calgary back
MCDONALD, Scott Jeffery Celebrating the life of Scott Jeffery McDonald, born on April 17, 1965, Woodstock, Ontario, went home to be with the Lord July 14, 2008, Calgary, Alberta. Mourning his passing are his two children Kayla 17, Christopher 16; his mother & stepfather Carolyn & Chris Ferraz; his father Jim McDonald and his wife Sharon; brother and sister in law John and Laurel Ferraz; sister Tara McDonald; grandmother Evelyn Jacklin; aunt Linda Jacklin; his uncle Allen and his wife Norma Jacklin. He was a friend and “Father Figure” to Tyler Huff, a dear friend to Richard Sylvan and many other friends and relatives.

[days of yore]

I pinched this from another site..so credit to whoever found it but it appears there was another brother so why does Tara say she is an only child...

Obituary Archive Search Results
Displaying 1 to 4 of 4 results found. search
2008-07-14 - Scott Jeffery MCDONALD of Calgary back
MCDONALD, Scott Jeffery Celebrating the life of Scott Jeffery McDonald, born on April 17, 1965, Woodstock, Ontario, went home to be with the Lord July 14, 2008, Calgary, Alberta. Mourning his passing are his two children Kayla 17, Christopher 16; his mother & stepfather Carolyn & Chris Ferraz; his father Jim McDonald and his wife Sharon; brother and sister in law John and Laurel Ferraz; sister Tara McDonald; grandmother Evelyn Jacklin; aunt Linda Jacklin; his uncle Allen and his wife Norma Jacklin. He was a friend and “Father Figure” to Tyler Huff, a dear friend to Richard Sylvan and many other friends and relatives.

wow...seems to be more and more relatives popping out of the woodwork. I think Tara might have meant that she was the only child of her mother's. I remember that she mentioned that her father remarried quite a few times and there are a few children with the same father, but perhaps not the same mother. :unsure:

[virgogal]

Tara M is on facebook right now answering q's!
http://www.facebook.com/wall.php?id=100516922558

[virgogal]

2008-07-14 - Scott Jeffery MCDONALD of Calgary back MCDONALD, Scott Jeffery
Celebrating the life of Scott Jeffery McDonald, born on April 17, 1965, Woodstock, Ontario, went home to be with the Lord July 14, 2008, Calgary, Alberta. Mourning his passing are his two children Kayla 17, Christopher 16; his mother & stepfather Carolyn & Chris Ferraz; his father Jim McDonald and his wife Sharon; brother and sister in law John and Laurel Ferraz; sister Tara McDonald; grandmother Evelyn Jacklin; aunt Linda Jacklin; his uncle Allen and his wife Norma Jacklin. He was a friend and “Father Figure” to Tyler Huff, a dear friend to Richard Sylvan and many other friends and relatives.

I had not seen this before....and I had searched!!

[Gugug]

I pinched this from another site..so credit to whoever found it but it appears there was another brother so why does Tara say she is an only child...

Obituary Archive Search Results
Displaying 1 to 4 of 4 results found. search
2008-07-14 - Scott Jeffery MCDONALD of Calgary back
MCDONALD, Scott Jeffery Celebrating the life of Scott Jeffery McDonald, born on April 17, 1965, Woodstock, Ontario, went home to be with the Lord July 14, 2008, Calgary, Alberta. Mourning his passing are his two children Kayla 17, Christopher 16; his mother & stepfather Carolyn & Chris Ferraz; his father Jim McDonald and his wife Sharon; brother and sister in law John and Laurel Ferraz; sister Tara McDonald; grandmother Evelyn Jacklin; aunt Linda Jacklin; his uncle Allen and his wife Norma Jacklin. He was a friend and “Father Figure” to Tyler Huff, a dear friend to Richard Sylvan and many other friends and relatives.

Well, you notice that he calls John Ferraz his brother (note: different last name). Is that a stepbrother? Chris Ferraz is his stepfather, so I would (wrongly, perhaps?) assume John Ferraz is a half-brother. Scott's mother is Carolyn. Is John's mother Carolyn? Or is John Ferraz Chris Ferraz's son by a different woman?

Then there's the Jacklin name, which we have seen spelled various ways.

This just adds to the confusion for me. All I can see is that they are all intertwined in some way, and seem to use each other's family names as it suits them. I, on the other hand, use my legal name all the time, even on weekends.

[virgogal]

oops Days of Yore! I didn't see that you had just posted it!
Sorry for being repetitive guys!

[Gugug]

Tara M is on facebook right now answering q's!
http://www.facebook.com/wall.php?id=100516922558

Dear Lord,

Don't these people know when to call it a day? I'd say now would be a good time, given the fiasco of the last press conference.

Sincerely,

Gugug

[virgogal]

No kidding gugug!
I wish we could open/post a 'family tree' so we could all add family members as we hear of them!

The demographics in this family are so similar to Shannon Matthews'

We you just on the Tara chat on FB?

[virgogal]

I read that John Jacklin=John McDonald=John Ferraz.

Me too...seems like none of the kids cared much for Jim Mc and adopted their step-father's last name.

ie. John Ferraz, Tara Harris.

So if Tara started as Tara MsDonald...then Tara Harris
And John started as John McDonald, the John Harris.........but ended up Ferraz

Does it make sense that Carolyn and Tara's mother, Linda White are sisters?

Johns mother may have remarried again and that is why he has the extra name Ferraz?

Somewhere along the line Jim Mc must have made peace with Tara for her to adopt his name again.

[days of yore]

Tara M is on facebook right now answering q's!
http://www.facebook.com/wall.php?id=100516922558

Hi Virgogal! :seeya: How goes it??? Thanks for posting the link! I was away from the computer for a while, but tried to catch her online with the link, but I guess people were being rude and she left?? Did anyone catch that she said that Tuesday will be her last press conference?? I guess it'll be up to Rodney to continue carrying the torch!!

[Skraps]

On that link, "Tara" said to enjoy this Tuesday's press conference cause it would be her last. She is tired of the fiasco / personal disection.

She also said she prays at 1111am/pm because that is when Tori believed wishes were made (or something like that).

[Gugug]

As far as "such a person" goes, I refer once again to the case of convicted murderer Michael White of Edmonton.

Police in that case played to Michael White's ego. They let him go in front of TV cameras, where he sobbed and pleaded for his wife and put on quite a show.

The police said they did not consider this a criminal matter. They knew soon after White staged a disappearance scene with his wife's vehicle, which was recorded on a security camera, that it was a criminal matter. White must have believed their story, so he went and retrieved a bag of bloody clothes from a field, then set it out with his garbage. The police took it away, as soon as the garbage man picked it up.

They let him lead a search party when he got mad at the police for their apparent inaction. You know, his police skills were so remarkable that he himself found a body, when his party searched outside the area the police had designated.

Then the police took quite some time to confirm gender/identity of the body. Michael White was still free, talking to the media, and under 24-hour surveillance.

In other words, Michael White convicted himself. The police must have appeared stupid and incompetent to him. There is nothing that such people like better than feeling superior. Ego is what sent White to jail.

During the trial, he had the audacity to claim that he was suffering, like the other victims, because his wife was dead.

There is a term for this, and it might be a little stronger than the one suggested earlier.

[Gugug]

I read that John Jacklin=John McDonald=John Ferraz.

That's right. I noted that John X has used all of these names in an older post. He has also been referred to as a "Jacqlin".

Tara said her brother's house in Calgary was searched. Maybe she meant the other brother, the one who is deceased?

[Gugug]

Me too...seems like none of the kids cared much for Jim Mc and adopted their step-father's last name.

ie. John Ferraz, Tara Harris.

So if Tara started as Tara MsDonald...then Tara Harris
And John started as John McDonald, the John Harris.........but ended up Ferraz

Does it make sense that Carolyn and Tara's mother, Linda White are sisters?

Johns mother may have remarried again and that is why he has the extra name Ferraz?

Somewhere along the line Jim Mc must have made peace with Tara for her to adopt his name again.

Or it was Thursday, and that's the perfect name for Thursday...(sarcasm)

[Gugug]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

way to go h4t

It might be a plan, but this is a highly dysfunctional family in question. Chaos and confusion rule the day.

[Gugug]

No, it was John. I saw him on the news (I live in Calgary). His mother's house was searched, too.

That is what he says. The police have not said anything.

And, is it possible they searched the other brother's house, too, or not?

[Gugug]

No kidding gugug!
I wish we could open/post a 'family tree' so we could all add family members as we hear of them!

The demographics in this family are so similar to Shannon Matthews'

We you just on the Tara chat on FB?

No, I don't go to that place. I never have. A relative posted my home phone number there, and I started getting hangups, then had to get a new phone number. This is the relative I've written about here.

[Orleaner12]

the brother/step/half of Tara's from Cluny...did he go by the name James or John... I know her father is Jim...the BF is James but.... so all confusing....

[days of yore]

Or it was Thursday, and that's the perfect name for Thursday...(sarcasm)

HAHAHAH....OMG, you are hilarious!!! :lol:

[doctor_J]

It might be a plan, but this is a highly dysfunctional family in question. Chaos and confusion rule the day.

I agree, Gugag.

The only reason people use alias'/exchangeable names is to juggle criminal activity and bad debt. This is not just a quirky, innocuous family tradition.

[virgogal]

No, I don't go to that place. I never have. A relative posted my home phone number there, and I started getting hangups, then had to get a new phone number. This is the relative I've written about here.


EEEEK! :scared:

Poor Gugug! That is INSANE!! You need a restraining order or something!

Though, I was stalked about 5 years ago and the police do not seem to know what to do AT ALL when the internet is involved!

[virgogal]

I agree, Gugag.

The only reason people use alias'/exchangeable names is to juggle criminal activity and bad debt. This is not just a quirky, innocuous family tradition.

Yep...I bet there is ALOT of both! Ohhhh...how I wish I had access to the police databases and Equifax!!:tonguewag:

[days of yore]

EEEEK! :scared:

Poor Gugug! That is INSANE!! You need a restraining order or something!

Though, I was stalked about 5 years ago and the police do not seem to know what to do AT ALL when the internet is involved!

Yiiikes, Guys!! Lots of crazy characters out there!!!:scared:

[virgogal]

Skraps, my heart just went cold. I have a fear of 11:11, that was the time my dad died, and I had looked at the clock and saw that time just before I got the call.

So sorry to hear that Skraps....HUGS!

[days of yore]

Skraps, my heart just went cold. I have a fear of 11:11, that was the time my dad died, and I had looked at the clock and saw that time just before I got the call.

Lizziegirl, I'm so sorry for your loss and the memory of the pain to come back to you this way....

[doctor_J]

In one of the articles printed in either the London or Woodstock paper, James Goris is refered to as "the common law husband of Tara MacDonald". I swear. Even though, I really can't go back through all of them to find it.

Even in the deep South of the US, Mississippi, where legal matters can sometimes be warped by backward cultural traditions, a couple have to co-habitate MANY more than 3 years to be common law wife and husband. Maybe everyone that shacks up a while is free to adopt the name of their cohabitor. :rolleyes:

[virgogal]

Some interesting quotes from another site!
--------------------------------------------------

Some things Tara tried to clear up on FB, these are some notes.

3:45 Daryn came home...no Tori. I thought Tara originally said 4:15.
4:00-approx 4:30 drove around with my mom and Daryn looking for Tori
4:30 Mom dropped me off to call friends houses, Mom kept driving and lloking....5:21, I called her cell...told her to go to the poilce station....Good enough for everyone????



Tara says “James was in a vehicle with a stolen snowblower, that does not make him a theif...he had possession charges is the year 2000.....9 YEARS AGO!!!!! Do people not change????”

“My uncle was the one cleaning out his van @ 2:00. He needed to remove some seats from the van to move her cousin home from Toronto. He wanted to leave the seats on her front porch.

Tara says “I dont work, james doesnt work, we both got laid off at the same time from the same place...rodney doesnt work either and hasnt way before he started his "changing of his life" What does that have to do with my daughter missing????”

Tara says “I have been speaking to someone over the last 5 weeks if you really must know, to work through my grief....it has helped tremendously”. Does anyone find this a strange statement?

[days of yore]

In one of the articles printed in either the London or Woodstock paper, James Goris is refered to as "the common law husband of Tara MacDonald". I swear. Even though, I really can't go back through all of them to find it.

Even in the deep South of the US, Mississippi, where legal matters can sometimes be warped by backward cultural traditions, a couple have to co-habitate MANY more than 3 years to be common law wife and husband. Maybe everyone that shacks up a while is free to adopt the name of their cohabitor. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I think here it's after 2 years of living together, you are considered common law. What confuses me, is that Tara herself has said they have been on and off, so I guess they didn't remain under the same roof? Would that still constitute a common law marriage, if they are technically still together after 3 years?? Who 'rules' these things?? :shrug: :confused:

[days of yore]

Respectfully Snipped


.....Tara says “I have been speaking to someone over the last 5 weeks if you really must know, to work through my grief....it has helped tremendously”. Does anyone find this a strange statement?

I'm not sure if she misspoke 'grief' for 'guilt'! I do find it strange. I think she would be probably so overwhelmed with guilt and fear, that she's just an explosion waiting to happen. I'm thinking that the desire to get a fix & the feeling of her life spinning out of control would be overwhelming....

[doctor_J]

I don't understand how people live without being homeless and how do you feed and clothe yourself and 2 kids without working?? Canada is not so socialist that everyone just gets a check in the mail for breathing, do they?? Help me out here, Canadians!

[days of yore]

I don't understand how people live without being homeless and how do you feed and clothe yourself and 2 kids without working?? Canada is not so socialist that everyone just gets a check in the mail for breathing, do they?? Help me out here, Canadians!

Er....Actually, yes it does happen...but please don't get me started!!! :cursing:

[virgogal]

Thanks to you and to virgogal.:rose: Time doesn't heal all wounds, sometimes it just puts a bandaid on it.

Yeah...I know....words of comfort...that is all we can offer here!
Oh and another hug!!!:smile:

[virgogal]

I don't understand how people live without being homeless and how do you feed and clothe yourself and 2 kids without working?? Canada is not so socialist that everyone just gets a check in the mail for breathing, do they?? Help me out here, Canadians!


Yes we do have welfare. In fact, while I was in University and a single parent, I recieved welfare payments. Believe me it is NOT generous!
I cleaned other people's houses, under the table, in order to live in a basement apt. and provide my child with a 'normal' early childhood. (ie. a tricycle, a pizza night once a month...etc...)

THAT is how meek the payments are!

I accepted the payments because I knew it was temporary, and I knew one day I would give back in spades. I worked 'under the table' because I wanted my baby to live in a real neighbourhood, not in Ontario Housing.

My baby is now 23 and a University student. I have 'given back' in SPADES! lol!

[doctor_J]

There is so much anger, bitterness and venom in Tara's answers. Dare I say, hatred?

I think I would be supplicant, humble, pleading, begging. I would lay bare my deepest secrets if it would get people to help. What people thought of me would not enter my mind if I could get them to HELP FIND MY CHILD!

Answering the timeline question and saying "Is that good enough for you?" is unbelievable. It's a very important question.

I would also be begging the OPP for a do-over on the LD, cough up every drug dealer I ever used, turn in all my family members for criminal activity, anything that would clear the family and get on with finding my child. I'm telling you, everything would take a back seat to helping LE before it was too late. I wouldn't even consider giving up the pc's as long as 1 camera showed up. When that camera stopped coming I'd be at the TV, radio and newspaper offices daily to try to keep her in the news. If that failed I'd stand on street corners with a big sign.

This whole "missing child thing" has seemed to inconvenience Tara and cause her more anger than sadness and grief.

[virgogal]

There is so much anger, bitterness and venom in Tara's answers. Dare I say, hatred?

I think I would be supplicant, humble, pleading, begging. I would lay bare my deepest secrets if it would get people to help. What people thought of me would not enter my mind if I could get them to HELP FIND MY CHILD!

Answering the timeline question and saying "Is that good enough for you?" is unbelievable. It's a very important question.

I would also be begging the OPP for a do-over on the LD, cough up every drug dealer I ever used, turn in all my family members for criminal activity, anything that would clear the family and get on with finding my child. I'm telling you, everything would take a back seat to helping LE before it was too late. I wouldn't even consider giving up the pc's as long as 1 camera showed up. When that camera stopped coming I'd be at the TV, radio and newspaper offices daily to try to keep her in the news. If that failed I'd stand on street corners with a big sign.

This whole "missing child thing" has seemed to inconvenience Tara and cause her more anger than sadness and grief.

Agreed...Most of us would be willing to 'splay our guts' for our children...never mind becoming 'unpopular'!

[doctor_J]

Yes we do have welfare. In fact, while I was in University and a single parent, I recieved welfare payments. Believe me it is NOT generous!
I cleaned other people's houses, under the table, in order to live in a basement apt. and provide my child with a 'normal' early childhood. (ie. a tricycle, a pizza night once a month...etc...)

THAT is how meek the payments are!

I accepted the payments because I knew it was temporary, and I knew one day I would give back in spades. I worked 'under the table' because I wanted my baby to live in a real neighbourhood, not in Ontario Housing.

My baby is now 23 and a University student. I have 'given back' in SPADES! lol!

I went the starving student route myself, but there was no welfare. What I don't understand is that Tara, James and the kids seem to live in pretty good housing, dress well, have pretty good vehicles, have plenty extra for computers, cell phones,,, internet service. That is not living on a meager welfare check, not to mention having enough to support 2 Oxycontin habits, KWIM?

When I was a grad student and not working, I lived in a trailer park so poor there was a cummunal toilet. I owned 2 pair of jeans for 8 solid years. No phone, No TV. No sunglasses, the same beans and cornbread every night. I know what "not working" looks like and it's not Tara and James. Maybe I was born on the wrong side of the border, lol.

[days of yore]

Yes we do have welfare. In fact, while I was in University and a single parent, I recieved welfare payments. Believe me it is NOT generous!
I cleaned other people's houses, under the table, in order to live in a basement apt. and provide my child with a 'normal' early childhood. (ie. a tricycle, a pizza night once a month...etc...)

THAT is how meek the payments are!

I accepted the payments because I knew it was temporary, and I knew one day I would give back in spades. I worked 'under the table' because I wanted my baby to live in a real neighbourhood, not in Ontario Housing.

My baby is now 23 and a University student. I have 'given back' in SPADES! lol!

You definitely have! :smile:

I know my response must have come off as being all encompassing. Please don't get me wrong... I certainly wasn't just edging at welfare, or the fact it exists. It does and should exist for the very reasons you just stated. Our government provides a lot of handouts to undeserving people all the time. THOSE are the handouts that we see as being too generous, because they are undeserving (ie. i believe that it was a Somoli (sp.) warlord who was hiding out in London, Ontario on our bill, being protected because if he & his family were sent back home, he'd be killed)....that sort of thing, which takes forever (and a lot of $$) to straighten out. I don't even know what happened in the end there...anyone?? Are they even still here???

Anyway, you are right, Virgogal...I am glad programs exist for the honest folk, like yourself who do the country proud!! :thumbsup:

[days of yore]

I went the starving student route myself, but there was no welfare. What I don't understand is that Tara, James and the kids seem to live in pretty good housing, dress well, have pretty good vehicles, have plenty extra for computers, cell phones,,, internet service. That is not living on a meager welfare check, not to mention having enough to support 2 Oxycontin habits, KWIM?

When I was a grad student and not working, I lived in a trailer park so poor there was a cummunal toilet. I owned 2 pair of jeans for 8 solid years. No phone, No TV. No sunglasses, the same beans and cornbread every night. I know what "not working" looks like and it's not Tara and James. Maybe I was born on the wrong side of the border, lol.

I actually had a similar experience to you, but it was because my parents did okay in life and were expected to help me fund my education. They were going through a nasty divorce with one hiding money from the other, and not really interested in the kids' lives at that time, so our needs to education were kinda swept to the side. They didn't want to fork over the money to fund the education, but I couldn't get government assistance either. I scraped by living in the attic of a friend's top floor apt. in an old house with mouldy insulation (which probably had asbestos in it) and no air conditioning in the summer! I worked two jobs just to scrape together my rent & often remember having only a handful of saltine crackers and water to serve as my lunch! KD was a luxury!! :tonguewag:

Here, it seems when you apply for assistance, if your parents don't seem to be in a position to help you, you are 'lucky' to be put in the system based on your current status (ie. ability to make money and how much money you actually make - regardless of whether you are capable of making more). I actually knew a guy from University whose parents weren't very well off, so he had government help to finish his education. BUT while he was in that position, he got himself into subsidized housing and has been there ever since, even though he is now a well paid producer with a national network. Just the consumate bachelor and too good of a deal... Not great for the system, so people can and do take advantage of it. :thumbdown:

[virgogal]

OMG! Thanks DoY

I was EXTREMELY happy the day I could say to my welfare worker "Thank you for everything...but I am going to be employed on xxxxxx)

I believe that we pay INTO the payments and should not be ashamed to use the payout when it is justified!

I'd be interested in knowing Tara's employment history?

After my own experience, I would never judge someone for being on welfare. But unless they are disabled (mentally or physically)
I would hope the means justifies the end!

[days of yore]

There is so much anger, bitterness and venom in Tara's answers. Dare I say, hatred?

I think I would be supplicant, humble, pleading, begging. I would lay bare my deepest secrets if it would get people to help. What people thought of me would not enter my mind if I could get them to HELP FIND MY CHILD!

Answering the timeline question and saying "Is that good enough for you?" is unbelievable. It's a very important question.

I would also be begging the OPP for a do-over on the LD, cough up every drug dealer I ever used, turn in all my family members for criminal activity, anything that would clear the family and get on with finding my child. I'm telling you, everything would take a back seat to helping LE before it was too late. I wouldn't even consider giving up the pc's as long as 1 camera showed up. When that camera stopped coming I'd be at the TV, radio and newspaper offices daily to try to keep her in the news. If that failed I'd stand on street corners with a big sign.

This whole "missing child thing" has seemed to inconvenience Tara and cause her more anger than sadness and grief.

ITA. None of her behavours make sense. Let's hope she cracks sometime soon and ends the pain for everyone (including herself)!!

[days of yore]

OMG! Thanks DoY

I was EXTREMELY happy the day I could say to my welfare worker "Thank you for everything...but I am going to be employed on xxxxxx)

I believe that we pay INTO the payments and should not be ashamed to use the payout when it is justified!

I'd be interested in knowing Tara's employment history?

After my own experience, I would never judge someone for being on welfare. But unless they are disabled (mentally or physically)
I would hope the means justifies the end!

:wub: to virgogal!

ITA to wondering about Tara's employment history. I certainly would not be surprised to learn that the choppiness of her work history would coincide with a very dramatic and traumatic life. It seems life has not been kind...

[doctor_J]

O/T ------ KUDOS to you virgogirl! I didn't have a kid, just a cat (he was very good at supplementing his own diet,) lol. Man did I love that cat. I miss him to this day.

[virgogal]

I went the starving student route myself, but there was no welfare. What I don't understand is that Tara, James and the kids seem to live in pretty good housing, dress well, have pretty good vehicles, have plenty extra for computers, cell phones,,, internet service. That is not living on a meager welfare check, not to mention having enough to support 2 Oxycontin habits, KWIM?

When I was a grad student and not working, I lived in a trailer park so poor there was a cummunal toilet. I owned 2 pair of jeans for 8 solid years. No phone, No TV. No sunglasses, the same beans and cornbread every night. I know what "not working" looks like and it's not Tara and James. Maybe I was born on the wrong side of the border, lol.

LOL...not at all! I recieved meager payments because I started my education when my baby was 22 months old. I drove a 'hyundai pony' which I brought from my marriage....and we lived in a bsmt apt.
Boy oh boy, though, Were we happy!

Haha! I was vegetarian those days, because I could not afford for both of us to eat meat!

Poor as we were, those were wonderful days!

It took me until she was 6 to actually get my BA...then I worked for 12 years but until she was 17 to get my Master's!

I digress...sorry!

I meant to say 'It's OK to accept welfare, if it's a means to an end.

[doctor_J]

:wub: to virgogal!

ITA to wondering about Tara's employment history. I certainly would not be surprised to learn that the choppiness of her work history would coincide with a very dramatic and traumatic life. It seems life has not been kind...

I don't buy into that. Life has never been kind to many of us, but we break the cycle of dysfunction for our children. Maybe my rough and poverty-stricken upbringing made me deaf to people making excuses for failure.

Tara did not deserve, however, to have her child stolen.
(Which I do not believe she did, but IDK)

[virgogal]

O/T ------ KUDOS to you virgogirl! I didn't have a kid, just a cat (he was very good at supplementing his own diet,) lol. Man did I love that cat. I miss him to this day.

Aww...mice or birds, Dr. J?

What is your Professional opinion on this case?? (I wrote you an email LATE last night, when we were both up at a hideous hour!)

[days of yore]

I don't buy into that. Life has never been kind to many of us, but we break the cycle of dysfunction for our children. Maybe my rough and poverty-stricken upbringing made me deaf to people making excuses for failure.

Tara did not deserve, however, to have her child stolen.
(Which I do not believe she did, but IDK)

You are probably right....I just can't help my overactive mind trying to figure out all of the possible scenerios of dysfunction that existed in her childhood. :blushing:

Actually, you are totally right. If I were to put myself in that position, you don't have a choice, do you?!? You have to make that decision to take control of your life when you have kids. No one has the right to mess up their kids and once they're there and it's the parent's responsibility to finally grow up and do what's best....

She is actually quite well spoken and there doesn't seem to be anything physically wrong. With all that family around, it isn't as if possible arrangements couldn't have been made with a grandparent or aunt/uncle, etc. to watch the kids after school while they worked an honest living (without doing drugs and stealing things, I might add)!

[virgogal]

I don't buy into that. Life has never been kind to many of us, but we break the cycle of dysfunction for our children. Maybe my rough and poverty-stricken upbringing made me deaf to people making excuses for failure.

Tara did not deserve, however, to have her child stolen.
(Which I do not believe she did, but IDK)


I agree...we can't make excuses...at some point, regardless of our background, we need to STAND UP!

[virgogal]

JINX DoY! We are in agreement! :wub:

[doctor_J]

Aww...mice or birds, Dr. J?

What is your Professional opinion on this case?? (I wrote you an email LATE last night, when we were both up at a hideous hour!)

Truthfully, both. I did try to save the birds by belling him. He just became more skillful than ever, lol. Mostly he was content keeping the rats and mice out of the out-house. And he hunted for fun more than hunger. He loved beans and cornbread but his favorite all time foods were collard greens and sweet potatoes He was a very Southern cat. When he got terminally ill, my intern year, I called my professors and said, "My cat is sick. I won't be back until it's over". OMG--that was unheard of.!!!!
I thought I'd lose my residency. When I returned a few days later, all these hardazz doctors were sympathetic and offered condolences. I know, I digress

[days of yore]

JINX DoY! We are in agreement! :wub:

That' too funny! We've done a few similar posts at the same time! :tonguewag:

[days of yore]

Truthfully, both. I did try to save the birds by belling him. He just became more skillful than ever, lol. Mostly he was content keeping the rats and mice out of the out-house. And he hunted for fun more than hunger. He loved beans and cornbread but his favorite all time foods were collard greens and sweet potatoes He was a very Southern cat. When he got terminally ill, my intern year, I called my professors and said, "My cat is sick. I won't be back until it's over". OMG--that was unheard of.!!!!
I thought I'd lose my residency. When I returned a few days later, all these hardazz doctors were sympathetic and offered condolences. I know, I digress

Ahhh...:crying: The loss of a pet is absolutely traumatic!! Sounds like a very lovely soul to have shared your life with!! :wub:

[virgogal]

Awww Dr J!

Sounds a bit like when I was doing my 'stats' course and my baby caught 'scarlet fever', TWICE!

WHO gets that anymore? LOL!

[days of yore]

Awww Dr J!

Sounds a bit like when I was doing my 'stats' course and my baby caught 'scarlet fever', TWICE!

WHO gets that anymore? LOL!

OMG!!! Like, you needed that at that time......NOT!!!! :sad:

[days of yore]

Wow..it's already midnight!! I need to get my 'beauty sleep' :rolleyes:, so I will bid everyone a good night!!

'Night all, sleep tight!!! :smile:

...and has H4T would say....

Hoping that tomorrow will bring wonderful news that Tori is found safe and well!! :wub:

[virgogal]

That' too funny! We've done a few similar posts at the same time! :tonguewag:


We Doooo seem to think along the same lines! No wonder 'you know who' pitted us together!

Hope she has joined Matty Gee...and has melded into his miserable armpit! :rolleyes:

[doctor_J]

Ahhh...:crying: The loss of a pet is absolutely traumatic!! Sounds like a very lovely soul to have shared your life with!! :wub:

I'm sitting here with tears streaming, after all these years. If there is a heaven, he's keeping it vermin free, and waiting on his Mom.

[Lorelei]

Truthfully, both. I did try to save the birds by belling him. He just became more skillful than ever, lol. Mostly he was content keeping the rats and mice out of the out-house. And he hunted for fun more than hunger. He loved beans and cornbread but his favorite all time foods were collard greens and sweet potatoes He was a very Southern cat. When he got terminally ill, my intern year, I called my professors and said, "My cat is sick. I won't be back until it's over". OMG--that was unheard of.!!!!
I thought I'd lose my residency. When I returned a few days later, all these hardazz doctors were sympathetic and offered condolences. I know, I digress

Aww :) I have three kitties, all the same litter, I couldn't bare to give them away when they were born, so I kept them.

[virgogal]

Awwww...when did you lose your pet?

I know I cried for 2 weeks after losing my first dog! xo

[doctor_J]

Awwww...when did you lose your pet?

I know I cried for 2 weeks after losing my first dog! xo

Many years and many cats ago. But those were such hard times and he helped me get through them. It's stll hard to talk of him. I was pathologically attached. I'll check in latter, have to do something productive. I'll check my e-mail too, I'm pretty careless with it. BBL.

As H4T says, her drug of choice is hope, Good choice I say.

[virgogal]

Doctor J,

Other than addiction, though it pays a big part in this...what is your opinion??

[virgogal]

ok...back to Tara and her family!

We DEFINITELY need a family tree...one that we can all add on to...as new members emerge!

[doctor_J]

Doctor J,

Between us...and I poted my professional opinion last night....what is yours???

Boy this is tough. Wouldn't you like to have a sit-down with this strange woman?? I'm not really qualified to give one although I did do an internship at the Whitfield State Hospital for the Criminally Insane. Many years ago. I can just say I am fascinated with her. I do not believe she is insane, ie psychotic. I am interested in your opinion in the PD department you posted yesterday. I originally thought some extreme manisfestation of MBP but now that the addiction to OXY has been confirmed, it throws a wrench in that. I posted some theories yesterday, I think it was, all involved Tara. I think the cops know if the tape is her. I do not think they gave the true height and I know it can be easily determined. That confuses me. I really want to get into her psychology and I somehow doubt anyone ever will, kind of like Casey Anthony. There are too many unknowns.

Mostly I believe this case is just what it appears. She's killed her child. Some of the ways I think this may have gone down were posted yesterday. I first thought she was Borderline, now with the drug confirmation, I'm not so sure. I'm out of my depth, for sure.

Educate me if you can!

[doctor_J]

Just to not mislead anyone, I am not a psychiatrist or psychologist. It's just a hobby, kind of. I'm an MD and a DVM (veterinarian). My specialities are zoonosis and biochemical neuropathology. I'm not any more qualified than any other arm chair detective in a case like this. When something comes up regarding medicine, I try to toss in a bone. Kind of trying to repay all the research given up by the computer people.

I wish we had the criminal history and employment history available on cases in the States. I quess on line research is harder on this one.

[virgogal]

Dr J,

I can't either, for lack of information....though I do see traits of hystrionic/narcisstic PD but not borderline.
Yes, I would LOVE it if we could both sit down with her!!!!

Tara is definitely not psychotic. She is clearly in touch with reality.

I am unconvinced that she killed her child. She may have arranged an abduction...out of a revenge scenario...but I doubt she is sufficiently detached to have comitted murder. JMO...I really do not have enough insight or knowledge.

IMO Tara has 'avoided' maturity by escaping into alcohol and drugs whenever life became difficult.
In her 30's she now has poor coping skills and an addiction, which results in poor judgement and life skills.

As a narcissist or a hystrionic...she also demands a LOT of attention and reassurance.

Her PC's and posts online are evidence...She is OVERLY concerned about her public image and WISHES we would all LIKE her and be on her side. She also overreacts and her main oulook is defended.

I would imagine that as a friend or lover, she would be VERY difficult to get along with. She would be very self centered and defensive/argumentative. Not to mention emotionally manipulative...

As a mother I would imagine that she very much enjoyed the 'toddler' years, when her children ADORED her. I would bet it was FAR less rewarding after the age of 7 or so, when children become MORE egocentric, and begin to 'see' their parents flaws and call them on them!

While most parents respect their children and value that stage of development...I would put money down that Tara, as an addict, responded to Tori's normal emotional development with contempt and guilt inducing responses.

IMO I bet that is why Tori started emailing her father.

Just my opinion.....

[virgogal]

I'm going to try to work one out. It's going to take a while, and if you hear screaming, send help, but I'll give it a shot.

Whoo Hoo! I am here to help! WTG Lizzie...we need a family tree!

[doctor_J]

Virgo---when you first posted the histrionic/narcissitic PD theory, I thought, "She nailed her" and I'm more concerned than ever. I know it's impossible and professionally risky to try to Dx. her from afar but it's a MB and not a courtroom, ya know? Do you not think MBP syndrome is a strong possibility? That was my first thoughts until the Oxy came out, which raises soooo many new probabilities. The enormous self-centerness. The NEED for the public to like her best. The ongoing competition with Rodney and the anger that she has not sucessfully manipulated public opinion.

I can't help but wonder if the anger is because the master plan has failed. She made the grand sacifice for nothing.

And I would LOVE to get into the magnanimous benefactor with you. Compare her reactions/interactions with this benefactor with what you would have done if you were being entertained for 2 hours by someone sympathetic and generous to your needs. He supposedly identifed with her plight and money was no object. Think about it. You would beg him to use that resource to help you find her, so many things come to mind with those resourses available. Fairy Godfather comes to mind. Yet all she did was take his number?????

ETA--And if the benefactor story is fiction, which I believe, what a host of complications that raises about her psychology. To have the audacity to try to pull that over on the cops and the public????

[doctor_J]

VG--I am fascinated by your opinion that Tara is not capable of pedicide. Consider the alternative. The successful abduction and detention of a child in broad daylight in public and on video??By a stranger. It's mathematically challenging, to say the least.

When confronted with a problem, the answer is probably the one that makes the least assumptions--Occam's Razor.

Statistics are what I rely on in circumstances in which so many factors are undeterminable (the way her mind works).

Whatever mental issues she has have been immeasurably altered by the biochemical pathology produced by her Oxy addiction. The reactions we're seeing have actually been MUTED. We can't see the high def version.

[juliekan]

ThinkTank

good post

I could go in circles replying, but I think I'll just let it all simmer.

[virgogal]

Welcome Think Tank! :smile:

Those are great observations and insights! I am too tired to reply but will tomorrow!

[doctor_J]

ThinkTank--good job, very well thought out and comprehensive. I am impressed.

I don't agree, but I am impressed.

What up with Tara'a obsession with a trust fund for the kids, one of whom she doesn't know if she'll ever see again???? People who do not know how they'll pay for next year's school supplies don't worry about trust funds. Why not raise money to help search for Tori? Of course the trust fund as a ruse would tie in well with ThinkTank's theory.

[juliekan]

If I may just get something off my chest for a minute:

Back in one of the earlier PC's, Tara was showing the picture of Tori that was taken at school the day before she disappeared. Then she said something like, "I have one of Daryn, too, but I didn't bring it out." She said it as though she regretted that she hadn't brought out Daryn's picture. I found that extremely strange, as Daryn is not the child who is MISSING! She had absolutely no reason to show his picture, and it would have been inappropriate to do so.

I don't think I would have mentioned it, except that she still seems to put Daryn before Tori when she's talking about needing to be there for her kids and whatnot. That makes no sense to me at all.

I agree that in hearing her talk, she seems to put Daryn first in everything. But in the picture thing, I think she was just like me...I never want to favor one child over the other, and at this point, Tori is the main point in everything they do in life...so you feel sorry for the other child left at home, missing their sister, and not EVER being the most important thing in your parents lives for, how long? Well, sometimes it goes on for a lifetime for these kids who have a sister or brother that never comes home

[doctor_J]

I think people are giving the whole white trash/ small time drug dealer/user/addict culture to much intellectual equity. These people are just not that smart or complex or sophisticated. They rarely see more than a few hundred bucks at once in their lifetime. They are not capable of long term planning, research or conspiracy. Any one of them would sell their own for far less than $50,000. No two of them could keep a secret any longer than it took to get the next pill or drink. Or they rat out each other just for the sheer pleasure of it. They couldn't organize their way out of a paper bag much less a grand kidnapping for debt. And again, I'm saying, from experience, drug addicts do not get their drugs on credit, not even to deal. Cash, then drugs. It's a strict pay to play business. The only drug debts have to do with cartel and drug lord business, like that Vegas Grandfather who owed millions to a Mexican drug cartel and had his grandson kidnapped. This is not that league.

[virgogal]

VG--I am fascinated by your opinion that Tara is not capable of pedicide. Consider the alternative. The successful abduction and detention of a child in broad daylight in public and on video??By a stranger. It's mathematically challenging, to say the least.

When confronted with a problem, the answer is probably the one that makes the least assumptions--Occam's Razor.

Statistics are what I rely on in circumstances in which so many factors are undeterminable (the way her mind works).

Whatever mental issues she has have been immeasurably altered by the biochemical pathology produced by her Oxy addiction. The reactions we're seeing have actually been MUTED. We can't see the high def version.

Hi Dr J

It's challenging...but let's admit it. Tara is articulate but not the sharpest knife inthe drawer!
Add the drugs and I feel her Master Plan was not very well thought out!

IMO she truly believes that she is a doting and self-sacrificing parent. The absence of Rondey, I am sure has reinforced that ideology.
I might be wrong but I don't see her as SO detached that she could KILL a child. In fact, I bet she gets LOTS of ego and self esteem through her children. She does not really have anything else to be proud of!

But I think because she is so emotionally immature, she likely makes lax and poor decisions and has lousy forethought.
So, I bet she has likely spent a great deal of her parenting life, doing damage control. (hope that makes sense!)

IMO This is a MASSIVE example of her skewed thinking and poor impulse control.

This has become a situation that she can't control...and I anticipate some more odd stories before she and her co-conspirators are arrested.

I could be wrong...but those are my thoughts!

[juliekan]

ThinkTank--good job, very well thought out and comprehensive. I am impressed.

I don't agree, but I am impressed.

What up with Tara'a obsession with a trust fund for the kids, one of whom she doesn't know if she'll ever see again???? People who do not know how they'll pay for next year's school supplies don't worry about trust funds. Why not raise money to help search for Tori? Of course the trust fund as a ruse would tie in well with ThinkTank's theory.

Trust fund....never heard of that before this case for a missing child. Maybe it's semantics, but that makes no sense. A trust fund is

well here are the purposes re: wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_law

scroll down to purposes, I don't see it, but maybe I'm missing it

[moonlite]

I watched the surveillance video again. I'm so frustrated that we still don't know who was supposed to pick up Tori that day or what she was supposed to do afterschool. Wait for her brother? Was she told to walk home alone? Why did Tara say she thought Tori got lost?

Greetings'
N/T'

I agree' there are too many inconsistencies and not enough of the truth!! Do you know if Tara finished her lie detector test yet?

Hoping Lil Tori is found soon.

Moonlite

[doctor_J]

Hi Dr J

It's challenging...but let's admit it. Tara is articulate but not the sharpest knife inthe drawer!
Add the drugs and I feel her Master Plan was not very well thought out!

IMO she truly believes that she is a doting and self-sacrificing parent. The absence of Rondey, I am sure has reinforced that ideology.
I might be wrong but I don't see her as SO detached that she could KILL a child. In fact, I bet she gets LOTS of ego and self esteem through her children. She does not really have anything else to be proud of!

But I think because she is so emotionally immature, she likely makes lax and poor decisions and has lousy forethought.
So, I bet she has likely spent a great deal of her parenting life, doing damage control. (hope that makes sense!)

IMO This is a MASSIVE example of her skewed thinking and poor impulse control.

This has become a situation that she can't control...and I anticipate some more odd stories before she and her co-conspirators are arrested.

I could be wrong...but those are my thoughts!

Virgo, Virgo, Virgo You are right on about one thing, she's not that smart. She takes some pride in being street smart, but even that's a joke.

But if she didn't kill her, you're saying she had to smarts to pull off a successfull kidnapping AND working with CONSPIRITORS she has managed to outwit the OPP and keep her hidden for over 5 weeks. This demands not only a lot of intelectual equity on Tara's part but also of her accomplices. I can't see it.

I think you might be considering her psychopathology independent of the effects of long term Oxycontin abuse. It would profoundly suppress her emotions, possibly to the point that she could detach enough for the crime. I've never known a Oxy abuser who did not also abuse major tranquilizers, Xanex, Valium, Ativan, etc. Add that to the mix.

[virgogal]

Virgo, Virgo, Virgo You are right on about one thing, she's not that smart. She takes some pride in being street smart, but even that's a joke.

But if she didn't kill her, you're saying she had to smarts to pull off a successfull kidnapping AND working with CONSPIRITORS she has managed to outwit the OPP and keep her hidden for over 5 weeks. This demands not only a lot of intelectual equity on Tara's part but also of her accomplices. I can't see it.

I think you might be considering her psychopathology independent of the effects of long term Oxycontin abuse. It would profoundly suppress her emotions, possibly to the point that she could detach enough for the crime. I've never known a Oxy abuser sho did not also abuse major tranquilizers, Xanex, Valium, Ativan, etc. Add that to the mix.


Nooooo...I am NOT saying that she had the 'smarts'...in fact the opposite! I think she BELIEVED she could outwit everyone...but hasn't.

I am fairly unfamiliar with OXY issues. As I said yesterday, I refer addicts out of my practice, because I believe they are better served by a wholistic team. (ie. CAMH)

You have far more knowledge that I do on OXY. You definitely could be right on the mark!

I am concerned about how she seems to put Daryn first, HIS behaviour at the PC, and Rodney's remark 'A daughter to a father is like a mother's first born son'....(not a quote...I am too tired to fish out the EXACT quote!)

I wonder if Tori contacted her father because she felt her mother favoured her brother...and Tara became enraged and jealous, and 'took Tori away from him', in some way, so to speak???

[doctor_J]

OK, I think I understand you better. However, how do you measure success? The child has not been found, sadly. Someone successfully pulled off an abduction or Tara has killed her child.

[virgogal]

Well, I believe that the LE are actually closing in.

I don't think it would be THAT hard in such a diverse and dysfunctional family, to have ONE ally who agrees to take the child to a remote area for a 'vacation'.
No one else would have to know, and frankly, I think several of the are getting a real thrill out of the media exposure (ie. Aunt Pepper and brother JJ)
I don't get the impression that thisfamily is very analytical. More 'tribal' IMO.
They aren't too close, but when there is drama they all want to be involved. (Not a fact..just my observation)

I think LE are giving her enough rope to hang herself, so to speak.

OOF! I don't know...and I am cross eyed from tiredness right now!
Perhaps we can continue this chat tomorrow???

Night Dr J! :sleep:

[Amy]

In one of the articles printed in either the London or Woodstock paper, James Goris is refered to as "the common law husband of Tara MacDonald". I swear. Even though, I really can't go back through all of them to find it.

Even in the deep South of the US, Mississippi, where legal matters can sometimes be warped by backward cultural traditions, a couple have to co-habitate MANY more than 3 years to be common law wife and husband. Maybe everyone that shacks up a while is free to adopt the name of their cohabitor. :rolleyes:

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/cyf/commonlaw.htm

Common Law Marriage

Common law marriage is permitted in a minority of states. To be defined as a common law marriage within the states listed below, the two parties must: agree that they are married, live together, and hold themselves out as husband and wife. Common-law marriage is generally a non-ceremonial relationship that requires "a positive mutual agreement, permanent and exclusive of all others, to enter into a marriage relationship, cohabitation sufficient to warrant a fulfillment of necessary relationship of man and wife, and an assumption of marital duties and obligations." Black's Law Dictionary 277 (6th ed. 1990).

Of course, this relates to in the states, don't know if it is different in Canada or not.

I was surprised to learn that there does not seem to be a certain amount of time the couple has to be living together for the "marriage" to be recognized.

Another fact that I learned is--if you consider yourself in a common law marriage, you have to get a divorce, just as if you were in a traditional marriage, which not all people seem to know.

[Amy]

Some interesting quotes from another site!
--------------------------------------------------

Some things Tara tried to clear up on FB, these are some notes.

3:45 Daryn came home...no Tori. I thought Tara originally said 4:15.
4:00-approx 4:30 drove around with my mom and Daryn looking for Tori
4:30 Mom dropped me off to call friends houses, Mom kept driving and lloking....5:21, I called her cell...told her to go to the poilce station....Good enough for everyone????



Tara says “James was in a vehicle with a stolen snowblower, that does not make him a theif...he had possession charges is the year 2000.....9 YEARS AGO!!!!! Do people not change????”

“My uncle was the one cleaning out his van @ 2:00. He needed to remove some seats from the van to move her cousin home from Toronto. He wanted to leave the seats on her front porch.

Tara says “I dont work, james doesnt work, we both got laid off at the same time from the same place...rodney doesnt work either and hasnt way before he started his "changing of his life" What does that have to do with my daughter missing????”

Tara says “I have been speaking to someone over the last 5 weeks if you really must know, to work through my grief....it has helped tremendously”. Does anyone find this a strange statement?

A tad bit defensive, it seems.

Anyway, reading H4T's comprehensive lists of questions (good work!!!) I was reminded of a question about the playdate. It was pretty darn confusing.

Since Tara said the playdate hadn't been confirmed, did she talk w/the other mothers during the day? And, if they did confirm their daughters could go there, wonder why they didn't? At least is SOUNDS like they didn't, Tara didn't ever mention the little girls being there and having to have them go back home, or calling their mothers to tell them that the play date was off. Seems she would have mentioned this @ the time she was saying some girls were supposed to watch the movie w/Tori that afternoon.

And, it seems like a lot of planning for one day--have some friends over to watch a movie, and then go w/dad? Unless, of course, the mom wanted the little girl to be "busy" when dad came by, and he might just go back home w/out her.

[Amy]

I don't understand how people live without being homeless and how do you feed and clothe yourself and 2 kids without working?? Canada is not so socialist that everyone just gets a check in the mail for breathing, do they?? Help me out here, Canadians!

I don't know about in Canada, but there are people like that in the states, for sure. Not everyone figures out how to accomplish this, but there are those who do.

[Amy]

OMG! Thanks DoY

I was EXTREMELY happy the day I could say to my welfare worker "Thank you for everything...but I am going to be employed on xxxxxx)

I believe that we pay INTO the payments and should not be ashamed to use the payout when it is justified!

I'd be interested in knowing Tara's employment history?

After my own experience, I would never judge someone for being on welfare. But unless they are disabled (mentally or physically)
I would hope the means justifies the end!

There are folks who genuinely need the assistance, and I don't begrudge them that. I DO begrudge those who are healthy and intelligent enough to be out working, but just find it easier to sit back and collect the check(s)--because there are a plethora of "programs" they get on, once they are on welfare, it isn't just one check fits all kind of thing.

That being said, I have been fortunate enough to not need assistance. Those that I know who DID need it, used it as it was intended, a way to put food on the table and a roof over the head until such time as the person could get employment. These people worked their dogs off to get OFF assistance. There are some people who complain about being on welfare--but since they have been there for a couple of decades, I don't take them seriously. If they wanted to be off, they would be one of the ones who FOUND a way to get off.

[Amy]

I'm sitting here with tears streaming, after all these years. If there is a heaven, he's keeping it vermin free, and waiting on his Mom.

http://www.petloss.com/poems/maingrp/rainbowb.htm

Rainbow Bridge--pet heaven.

[doctor_J]

The OPP knows a lot that we don't and they are searching landfills and telling farmers to closely check their fields. Just doesn't sound like they think there are conspirators holding her alive. They did offer the reward though, I never heard if that was for only a live child or also for her body.

[Amy]

Virgo---when you first posted the histrionic/narcissitic PD theory, I thought, "She nailed her" and I'm more concerned than ever. I know it's impossible and professionally risky to try to Dx. her from afar but it's a MB and not a courtroom, ya know? Do you not think MBP syndrome is a strong possibility? That was my first thoughts until the Oxy came out, which raises soooo many new probabilities. The enormous self-centerness. The NEED for the public to like her best. The ongoing competition with Rodney and the anger that she has not sucessfully manipulated public opinion.

I can't help but wonder if the anger is because the master plan has failed. She made the grand sacifice for nothing.

And I would LOVE to get into the magnanimous benefactor with you. Compare her reactions/interactions with this benefactor with what you would have done if you were being entertained for 2 hours by someone sympathetic and generous to your needs. He supposedly identifed with her plight and money was no object. Think about it. You would beg him to use that resource to help you find her, so many things come to mind with those resourses available. Fairy Godfather comes to mind. Yet all she did was take his number?????

ETA--And if the benefactor story is fiction, which I believe, what a host of complications that raises about her psychology. To have the audacity to try to pull that over on the cops and the public????

There are a couple of reasons I don't buy the benefactor scenario. Even if the limo did not park on her drive, I have to believe that the presence of a limo in a neighborhood would be noted by SOMEONE. Someone who would have reported @ least to police, but probably even to other neighbors who might not have been home @ the time, and the media. "Hey!!! I can verify Tara's story, there was a limo parked @ (whatever address, or in an alley) and I watched the limo drive down the street!!!!" Nope, didn't seem that ANYONE saw a limo that day. It WOULD be an usual sight in most neighborhoods, except for maybe Beverly Hills or some ritzy section of town.

The other thing is--when someone demands a ransom, s/he is very unlikely to return the child in exchange for a phone number to set up the payment after the fact. Nope, a kidnapper would demand the money either prior to releasing the child, or @ least simultaneously. For goodness sake, who is going to take the chance that, once the child is returned, the person who answers the phone will say "SUCKER!!! We have the child, but you'll not see any money!!!!"

I just don't see this as being true.

[Lovethechild]

A tad bit defensive, it seems.

Unless, of course, the mom wanted the little girl to be "busy" when dad came by, and he might just go back home w/out her.

Snipped with respect


She's awfully defensive.

OR she might have wanted RS to come to pick up Tori and find out she was MISSING.....OR throw suspision on rodney as the possible abductor? for example..... Tori never came home....maybe RS abducted her from school? That video footage threw a monkey wrench in her plan. IDK....I feel like she's doing all this to get back at RS.


Also, did Tara call her mom to look for Tori? Or was she already at the home. and WHY didn't Grandma pick up the kids????? She must of been home or close to Tara's home as she was there 15 mins after DS came home without Tori( according to Tara) and drove around with Tara from 4:00-4:30, looking for Tori.:confused:

[juliekan]

There are a couple of reasons I don't buy the benefactor scenario. Even if the limo did not park on her drive, I have to believe that the presence of a limo in a neighborhood would be noted by SOMEONE. Someone who would have reported @ least to police, but probably even to other neighbors who might not have been home @ the time, and the media. "Hey!!! I can verify Tara's story, there was a limo parked @ (whatever address, or in an alley) and I watched the limo drive down the street!!!!" Nope, didn't seem that ANYONE saw a limo that day. It WOULD be an usual sight in most neighborhoods, except for maybe Beverly Hills or some ritzy section of town.

The other thing is--when someone demands a ransom, s/he is very unlikely to return the child in exchange for a phone number to set up the payment after the fact. Nope, a kidnapper would demand the money either prior to releasing the child, or @ least simultaneously. For goodness sake, who is going to take the chance that, once the child is returned, the person who answers the phone will say "SUCKER!!! We have the child, but you'll not see any money!!!!"

I just don't see this as being true.

The most obvious problem with the whole benefactor scenario is that we have never heard THE SPECIFICS OF HOW IT WORKS. We never heard them say in the PCs after it how the people were supposed to call, etc.

Reporters: Please ask Tara how this is supposed to work...with a specific question...for a change.

Of course, as you pointed out, who is going to call for the money AFTER they have returned the child???

[moonlite]

If I may just get something off my chest for a minute:

Back in one of the earlier PC's, Tara was showing the picture of Tori that was taken at school the day before she disappeared. Then she said something like, "I have one of Daryn, too, but I didn't bring it out." She said it as though she regretted that she hadn't brought out Daryn's picture. I found that extremely strange, as Daryn is not the child who is MISSING! She had absolutely no reason to show his picture, and it would have been inappropriate to do so.

I don't think I would have mentioned it, except that she still seems to put Daryn before Tori when she's talking about needing to be there for her kids and whatnot. That makes no sense to me at all.

Greetings'
KittyMama"

I agree' it does appear that Tara does put Daryn, before Tori. IMO, Daryn, doesn't seem to upset that his sister was abducted by a stranger at least what video I have seen. I think Daryn, might know a wee bit more than everyone knows. Children are not stupid and pick up on many things. I just think if this was a true stranger abduction Daryn might be more frantic; being how Tori, is his best friend.
IMO' Nothing that Tara does makes any sense and too many inconsistencies comes out of that womans mouth.
I just want Lil Tori found.

Moonlite

[BJames]

Good morning to all, we finally have some sunshine here! :smile:

I am wondering if in the 'beginning' Tori was meant to just go away for a while...maybe for Tara to have some sort of 'break' from her?
Then when push came to shove and other folks became involved it just spiraled out of control and became a different animal?
I have had so many thoughts flying through my head for the past month...
Generally low/mid level 'dealers' wouldn't have much use for taking a child, an 8 year old girl would certainly put a damper on their lives...I would think it would make more problems than it would be worth to them. And to consider a kidnapping/murder charge instead of a distribution of a controlled substance charge in Ontario....it would be crazy. It sure wouldn't be for money...if Tara couldn't afford to keep using Oxy, her 'dealer' would certainly know that there would be no money available in an abduction scenerio.
I do think the OPP knows much more than they are saying...and whether Tara is going to continue with the PC's or not...they are going to continue following her.
I may be a bit 'PollyAnnaish' but for some reason I can see Tori playing with a bunch of other children in a basement somewhere...I so hope that I am right.

Just my opinion of course...

[MoonFlwr]

Morning BJames

If what you were wondering about is true..(Tori needing to go away for a while, to, perhaps, give Tara a break) why would there have been a need to call the police?

(O/T where are you that you're so happy to see some rays? ;) )

[n/t]

Hi ThinkTank and welcome! :seeya:

I also believe it's drug debt related especially after Rodney made that slip up about phone calls at the home that he wasn't informed about.

Now, whether Tara made Tori "disappear" because of a threat she received in one of those phone calls specific to Tori or whether or not they did take Tori remains to be seen.

Also, Tara's words like why would she "protect" Tori and not Daryn could also be a clue.

If she is the one seen in the video, she may have made plans to get Tori out of town on that day and Daryn may have been picked up by James. I don't believe the story that Daryn walked some other friends home. Nobody has come forward to confirm it which leads me to believe it didn't happen.

All speculation of course. Praying Tori is safe.

o/t Little Briant was found alive in Mexico after he was kidnapped from his home. It looks like it could have been a drug/gang related kidnapping and his family was targeted. Let's pray for another miracle and that Tori comes home safe too. :rose:

[justmy2cents]

Not sure if anyone posted this yet, in canada each province has different commom - law laws, in ontario you have to be living with someone for 1 year to be considered commom - law. Also since Tara stated that her and James both have been laid off it is quite possible that their family can do okay with both of them being on unemployment insurance.

[n/t]

Snipped with respect


She's awfully defensive.

OR she might have wanted RS to come to pick up Tori and find out she was MISSING.....OR throw suspision on rodney as the possible abductor? for example..... Tori never came home....maybe RS abducted her from school? That video footage threw a monkey wrench in her plan. IDK....I feel like she's doing all this to get back at RS.


Also, did Tara call her mom to look for Tori? Or was she already at the home. and WHY didn't Grandma pick up the kids????? She must of been home or close to Tara's home as she was there 15 mins after DS came home without Tori( according to Tara) and drove around with Tara from 4:00-4:30, looking for Tori.:confused:

What's interesting about grandma is according to Tara, she and her mom are not close but yet mom was there on that day? What does grandma know??

[n/t]

Not sure if anyone posted this yet, in canada each province has different commom - law laws, in ontario you have to be living with someone for 1 year to be considered commom - law. Also since Tara stated that her and James both have been laid off it is quite possible that their family can do okay with both of them being on unemployment insurance.

Correct me if I'm wrong but unemployment insurance doesn't last forever. Depending on how much time the person was employed and contributed to UIC, the max would be one year and it's something like 60% of your salary. That may have changed, I don't know.

If they're all on welfare, I want to know WHY because my tax money is going to support them. They look healthy and able to work to me. No reason why they shouldn't have jobs including Rodney who should've paid child support for his children.
:thumbdown:

[BJames]

I am wondering if at the start Tara had asked someone to care for Tori because she was conflicting with her, and maybe withdrawing from the Oxy? Once other folks got involved it became a police matter? Maybe her mother pushed for it? If Tara feels that her mother may have been judging her 'mothering'...it might be pretty hard to tell her that she just needed a 'break'. And things rolled on from there...?
As we have seen in the Anthony saga these things can take on a whole life of their own, stories sometimes just become bigger dramas.

For what it's worth...I don't think Tara ever thought any of it would be caught on tape. Someone has to know who owns a white coat like that...white is not a very popular colour in snow country, and I doubt it was only worn once.

Again....I just can't see a drug connection here. Intent to distribute isn't a 'huge' offense here in low level narcotics, to risk a kidnapping/murder charge? They would have to be as dumb as a box of rocks...they would know that there is no money...risk that to 'teach' someone a lesson? I would think that it would just complicate someone's life...who needs an 8 year old to care for? 'Dealers' are busy...they don't often 'babysit'.
I really believe that someone out there knows who owns that white coat, and where Tori is...who knows what type of story Tara has told them?
Maybe I am just a romantic at heart...I think she's alive.

Just my opinion of course...

[n/t]

Greetings'
N/T'

I agree' there are too many inconsistencies and not enough of the truth!! Do you know if Tara finished her lie detector test yet?

Hoping Lil Tori is found soon.

Moonlite

She said she did. IIRC, in one of the PC's she said she completed it so I'm not sure if the media got it wrong or it's another Tara inconsistency.

IMO, she originally said she couldn't complete it because she was too emotional <maybe wanting to get sympathy> but when people didn't give her what she wanted and they started to question why she didn't take another one that's when she came out with the second version that she did in fact complete it.

[n/t]

That white coat is the biggest clue. I agree with you that we don't see too many white coats in snow country.

You don't think a drug debt could be a possibility? I think it's very possible. No, they won't babysit an 8 year old but they may hold her until the debt is paid, if not........:sad:

I want to hear more about those phone calls. I think they were threats.


ETA: Forgot to add one thing about the white coat. That's why I believe it's Tara in the video. A kidnapper wouldn't wear a colour that would make them stand out from the crowd. KWIM

[n/t]

Another thing that bothers me is Tara saying Tori's disappearance has nothing to do with a drugs or drug debt. How does she know? Wouldn't she want to look at all possibilities? Does she even know who the people giving her these drugs are? Does she have any clue? Does she think they're her best friends?:cursing:

[BJames]

Again...I might just be in denial about the drug situation.

I am so with you on the white coat issue, almost any other colour except white would attract less attention..especially with dark hair being pulled back so dramatically.
A black coat with a hood? It would be much harder to identify, most women have at least one black jacket/coat...somebody has to have seen that coat on someone. And whomever it is did not count on being caught on tape...hair pulled away from her face, no hood...and a white coat.

Just my opinion of course...

[n/t]

Yup, the abductor made no attempt to disguise herself. She had no clue a camera was there, imo.

[mary jane]

But then again it does draw ones attention away from the face to the jacket,,as for drug debt this is small town On not some drug cartell going on here I think that is going down the wrong road.

[n/t]

But then again it does draw ones attention away from the face to the jacket,,as for drug debt this is small town On not some drug cartell going on here I think that is going down the wrong road.

Hi and welcome! :seeya:

IIRC, Tara mentioned that there was a lot of drugs going on in Woodstock. I don't live there so I don't know that for a fact. I'm not saying a drug cartel but let's say they (I'm including James) did owe these drug dealers money...who knows...even $15,000 worth, would that be a motive to kidnap Tori until the money is paid up?

Remember Tara said she felt it was a case of a "mildly vindictive" or something like that. So perhaps she thought the people holding Tori were going to punish her but not harm Tori. She needs to come up with the money or else she may never see her daughter again.

To me, drug dealers are criminals and there aren't any good guy criminals. She may even think these guys won't harm Tori because she considers them as friends in her warped mind. Who knows.

I think if the video wasn't as grainy as it is, we'd see the face but there are witnesses and there's no doubt about that. Someone knows who the abductor is.

Do you mind sharing your theory?

[n/t]

What about loan sharks?

[justmy2cents]

i am just recently on unemployment and i am getting decent money from it and will continue to receive it for 52 weeks, this was based on my wages from my last job as well as my length of time there. In todays economy expecially here in ontario, times are tough, jobs are not available.

in my situation, i am getting enough money from ei as if i was making more then 10$ per hour. I have been on numerous interviews and i feel that even a min wage job is hard to get. After not even being able to get a job that a high school student can get i was very frusterated. It was explained to me that many employers assume based on my education and job experience that I would not be staying at the job for long (just using it until something better comes along), which could be the case in many situations but never the less employers don't want to spend the time and effort to train someone who won't be staying long.

If in fact they are on assistance, they too have worked in the past and pay taxes so it is their money too. Assistance is assistance just that not a career and with her working a some point in the past it is my opinion that she has every right to use the services that this country makes available.

[justmy2cents]

just my thoughts: the calls RS could be talking about i think are to CAS, that would be the situation where he would have wanted to know, again he stated he wasn't in the kids lives so therefore he really wouldn't be privy to information regarding their daily lives.

In a nut shell, he wasn't around if he was he could have done something before to remove the kids from the situation.

as well i find it really hard to believe that a debt of that amount could be acccumulated (sp). This is small town canada, i know some shady people and there is no way that a dealer would allow that sort of amount to be owed.

[justmy2cents]

Here is something that i don't understand, I am asking this from anyone who has a daughter as I do.

From my experience as having a daughter and her many many friends all the girls have long hair. Not maybe all long but not boy short. Tori's hair is boy short (and in all her pictures it is short, leading me to her hair has always been this way) the girls that my daughter plays with who have had boy short hair has been due to lice. I am not saying this is true in all situations but considering Tara herself has long hair and seems to be a girly type woman, Why is this little girls hair so short?

[BeetlebrowII]

I went the starving student route myself, but there was no welfare. What I don't understand is that Tara, James and the kids seem to live in pretty good housing, dress well, have pretty good vehicles, have plenty extra for computers, cell phones,,, internet service. That is not living on a meager welfare check, not to mention having enough to support 2 Oxycontin habits, KWIM?

When I was a grad student and not working, I lived in a trailer park so poor there was a cummunal toilet. I owned 2 pair of jeans for 8 solid years. No phone, No TV. No sunglasses, the same beans and cornbread every night. I know what "not working" looks like and it's not Tara and James. Maybe I was born on the wrong side of the border, lol.

I don't know about the other stuff but from a woman's point of view, Tara certainly has a extensive updated wardrobe. Just sayin :sneaky:

[Hope4Tori]

Hey everyone here -:thumbsup: good morning - it's still morning just barely!

A special hello and welcome Think Tank and Lorelei and BJames and anyone else here whom I may have overlooked - you - we - are all welcome here and I love reading the many amazing posts as I try to catch up . . .
Virgogal - I saw you post the link yesterday evening re TM on FB. I copied and pasted and could not believe what I read! I will share with all once I get a chance - perhaps later today. I don't know if I should hug you or hit you, Virgogal because I was enrapt over there reading and analysing into the wee hours - but truly I thank you for sharing! Big Hugs! :wub: And wicked posts by you and Doctor J (aka Night Owls) - and n/t and Justmy2cents and Days of Yore and hello - everybody on this board - everyone's ideas and opinions are incredibling thought provoking and sometimes I wonder how any of us function with so many thoughts about Tori in our heads - with so much sadness and hope for her in our hearts - and yet, one never knows how much help may come from our efforts, and in any case, IMO, it helps to believe that at least we are trying to doing something to help!

This morning I compiled a few thoughts and here is what I'm thinking about today:


I think there are parallel stories that are like separate entities although they are all connected in some way and these are complicating and convoluting the situation and making it next to impossible to conduct a thorough analyses of Tori’s abduction.

Difficult for me it is to assess the situation in terms of the motive(s), the ability to identify and name a prime suspect because of the huge range of people and personalities with many conflicting and diversionary sideline and background dramas involved in Tori’s life. Many of the primary characters in Tori’s life cause suspicion by their own actions (i.e. TM, RS, JG, SL, IMO) or as in the case of LW, IMO, inaction, distance and silence. LE has a large challenge on its hands from the sheer volume and complexity of potential suspects to investigate.

The suspect/abductor could be any number of people - person(s) capable of taking Tori away with an equally wide ranging motive behind such an act: (list not in order of most likely IMO):

1) by a stranger (unlikely IMO) or someone who knows / knows about the family (directly or through gossip) to kidnap and hide her until a ransom is forthcoming (unlikely IMO);
2) by a family member or close friend in response to a threat involving drugs (if dealer, disputes over turf control perhaps rather than debt), money, harm to TS and/or DS, removal of one or both children from the home by CAS, witness to something dangerous or illegal;
3) by a family member(s) and/or close friend(s) to create a situation that would gain sympathy from others and “buy time” as a way to avoid or be forgiven debts (regular i.e. rent, bills, - gambling,) (IMO quite possible - and perhaps only intended in the beginning to last a much shorter time with the hopes that the effects (i.e. sympathy) would keep the financial pressure off for a long time);
4) by a family member(s) and/or close friend(s) -- Perhaps plan 3) got extended and the story got embellished in response to how much unexpected publicity was garnered, and then it was decided to take advantage of an opportunity to actually profit from the situation to vastly improve the financial future (IMO quite possible),
5) by a family member or close friend to protect her from uncertain and disturbing circumstances at home (IMO, quite possible) with the intention of offering her a different and safer new life (with or without her permission (IMO possible) – with or without TM’s permission (IMO possible);
6) by a family member(s) and/or close friend(s) to punish Tori (IMO unlikely) or someone she loves (IMO possible) including revenge for past grievances;
7) by a family member(s) and/or close friend(s) to teach Tori a lesson about loyalty (IMO possible) if there was interest expressed by Tori that perhaps she would prefer to live elsewhere i.e. with RS or LW or others;
8) by a family member(s) and/or close friend(s) to worry and upset and gain emotional control over others, and to assert a need for control over Tori, and to be perceived by others as the person in control, by “staging” Tori’s disappearance with the intention of it being a short lived drama but then when LE were called in to investigate (by LW being involved) the drama and stories had to continue and the “play” had to continue with no final act yet written – and perhaps writing the script as the days passed (IMO quite possible) and IMO, this scenario could be viewed by someone as “mildly vindictive”;
9) who knows?? This feels to me like the longest and most challenging game of Clue of my life - except that we all know that Tori's situation is unfortunately not a lighthearted diversion for a Sunday afternoon . . .sigh!

I wish whomever is responsible and for whatever reason, the mystery is solved and Tori will be rescued by LE - today!:wub:

[BeetlebrowII]

There is so much anger, bitterness and venom in Tara's answers. Dare I say, hatred?

I think I would be supplicant, humble, pleading, begging. I would lay bare my deepest secrets if it would get people to help. What people thought of me would not enter my mind if I could get them to HELP FIND MY CHILD!

Answering the timeline question and saying "Is that good enough for you?" is unbelievable. It's a very important question.

I would also be begging the OPP for a do-over on the LD, cough up every drug dealer I ever used, turn in all my family members for criminal activity, anything that would clear the family and get on with finding my child. I'm telling you, everything would take a back seat to helping LE before it was too late. I wouldn't even consider giving up the pc's as long as 1 camera showed up. When that camera stopped coming I'd be at the TV, radio and newspaper offices daily to try to keep her in the news. If that failed I'd stand on street corners with a big sign.

This whole "missing child thing" has seemed to inconvenience Tara and cause her more anger than sadness and grief.

I think the chicken is out of the bag as far as Tara suspecting Rodney/family of taking Tori from the beginning. This coupled with her drug addiction explains her anger IMO. Unfortunately for Tori, Tara's anger and insecurity has left her unable to open up to other possibilities.

Tori was an inconvenience to Tara because she was smart and willfull. Daryn became subservient and dutiful to Tara to try and recieve whatever attention was available.

Considering Tara's many explanations for things that happened before, during and after Tori's abduction, I have come to the conclusion that Tara would not have noticed if Tori was abducted from RIGHT UNDER HER NOSE. I am sure there were many who knew this.

No boundries, no schedule, no PROTECTION, no way to contact daddy........this child was on her own most of the time.........:angry:

Please please god......I pray that whomever took her.....maybe they cared :rose:

[BeetlebrowII]

My message to Tori’s family/friends/associates: It is my opinion, that other than or in addition to holding daily press conferences, conducting print, tv, radio interviews, Fwall reading/commenting, bike rally, community gatherings, fundraisers, balloon ceremonies, poster making and posting – you may find it useful to consider some other approaches that could be made by any of the family/friends/associates that may make a significant difference in helping to find Tori? Has anyone contracted a private investigator(s) to look for Tori? Have any private investigators offered their services to the family? Are the family/friends and associates of Tori willing to fully cooperate with LE and be completely frank about all details of their lives that could potentially, if revealed, hold clues that may help find Tori? Have teams of volunteers been organized to brainstorm? – with the full disclosure of all pertinent details? – have teams of volunteers been organized to search the Woodstock and surrounding areas?– every day? – have teams of volunteers been organized to go door to door? – store to store? – school to school? asking questions of real people and asking for any real help to find Tori? IMO, people would love to see the family take some action – get out in the community everyday and look – talk about Tori – come on the computer to actually brainstorm ideas and leads – don’t try to intimidate well-meaning people who are concerned about Tori and willing to help by talking about lawsuits and shutting down the growing internet communities devoted to helping find Tori – IMO that approach is not helpful. Free speech – without fear of what is being discussed – is what may help find Tori, IMO – and I wonder why anyone would not want and be thankful for that kind of help.

In my opinion, it is time for the secrecy to stop and the truth to be told. IMO, The public is more than willing to do whatever possible to help. The public wants to empathize and understand the family/friends/associates and many people can relate to their human frailties and would refrain from harsh judgement if they felt they were not being mislead with useless and/or distracting or misleading information, IMO.

IMO, the public would gladly offer our genuine support, if we the public had the feeling that the facts were actually being shared honestly by all appropriate parties, without those parties being concerned more about protecting their own privacy and/or reputations and by demonstrating that their only concern is finding Tori alive and having the chance to see her rescued from whomever and wherever she may be, IMO. That type of forthright attitude and information that could prove highly useful and family/friends/associates would actually gain respect of the public, IMO, but it seems to me that it is so far, being actively withheld, IMO.

It’s time for everyone involved in Tori’s life, to cut the crap and stand up and face the public with the truth, IMO. Who cares what people will say or think or write about you if it helps to find Tori? Really – do you care? There is nothing, IMO, that could happen to any of you for being completely honest that has not happened already, IMO, since the worst is the fact that Tori was abducted by someone! Tori is still out there – that’s all that matters – or all that should matter to those whom actually know her and love her, IMO. Maybe instead of thinking about how bad it is to have the public’s attention and subsequent criticism and “negative” focus on family/friends/associates of Tori, you could realize that all everyone wants is to focus on Tori to help find her, IMO. But instead of genuine appreciation for the public’s concern and willingness to spend our own free time to help you to help find Tori, whom is a total stranger to the vast majority of the public, IMO, you seem suspicious of the public’s motives and criticize people for commenting on your choices when you MUST know that your choices are YOUR responsibility and no one else’s, IMO. IMO, other people’s opinions of you cannot hold any importance whatsoever in contrast to Tori’s circumstance, IMO. Family/friends/associates – put yourselves in Tori’s shoes for a moment – it is her feelings that take precedence over everything else until she is found, IMO.

I cannot fathom how anyone who loves Tori cannot understand and appreciate that complete strangers to the situation are on computer’s every day – in the hundreds – even thousands – making sacrifices of time and energy that could be spent with our own families and friends – all because we do feel so sad and sorry for Tori and her many loved ones and we want to help find Tori. No one wants to be unfair or judgemental – so please just start being open and stop being so self-concerned and paranoid about our interest and accept our helping hands, hearts and minds – we want to help you – still – and time is ticking folks – this is a serious thing – please do whatever you humanly can to help the public help you and hopefully – ultimately – and SOON – Tori will be rescued in time. Wishing the family and friends of Tori all the best –and my heart and thoughts and hope continue for Tori’s safe return home to her loved ones!:wub::wub::wub:

Isn't it amazing how one poster can sum up what is in all our hearts and minds. Oh H4T, you have a gift and we are so glad you are here with us as we try to find out what happened to this sweet young girl........

I wish there was some way for Tara and/or Rodney to read what you wrote.

[Gugug]

Dr J,

I can't either, for lack of information....though I do see traits of hystrionic/narcisstic PD but not borderline.
Yes, I would LOVE it if we could both sit down with her!!!!

Tara is definitely not psychotic. She is clearly in touch with reality.

I am unconvinced that she killed her child. She may have arranged an abduction...out of a revenge scenario...but I doubt she is sufficiently detached to have comitted murder. JMO...I really do not have enough insight or knowledge.

IMO Tara has 'avoided' maturity by escaping into alcohol and drugs whenever life became difficult.
In her 30's she now has poor coping skills and an addiction, which results in poor judgement and life skills.

As a narcissist or a hystrionic...she also demands a LOT of attention and reassurance.

Her PC's and posts online are evidence...She is OVERLY concerned about her public image and WISHES we would all LIKE her and be on her side. She also overreacts and her main oulook is defended.

I would imagine that as a friend or lover, she would be VERY difficult to get along with. She would be very self centered and defensive/argumentative. Not to mention emotionally manipulative...

As a mother I would imagine that she very much enjoyed the 'toddler' years, when her children ADORED her. I would bet it was FAR less rewarding after the age of 7 or so, when children become MORE egocentric, and begin to 'see' their parents flaws and call them on them!

While most parents respect their children and value that stage of development...I would put money down that Tara, as an addict, responded to Tori's normal emotional development with contempt and guilt inducing responses.

IMO I bet that is why Tori started emailing her father.

Just my opinion.....

Age seven seems to be the magic number for such people. There is a reason for this: it is called the "age of reason". The kind of people you refer to have a problem with their own children reaching this age because they themselves never progressed beyond it mentally and emotionally. They are eternally stuck in the foot-stomping, tantrum-throwing years.

[BeetlebrowII]

Some interesting quotes from another site!
--------------------------------------------------

Some things Tara tried to clear up on FB, these are some notes.

3:45 Daryn came home...no Tori. I thought Tara originally said 4:15.
4:00-approx 4:30 drove around with my mom and Daryn looking for Tori
4:30 Mom dropped me off to call friends houses, Mom kept driving and lloking....5:21, I called her cell...told her to go to the poilce station....Good enough for everyone????



Tara says “James was in a vehicle with a stolen snowblower, that does not make him a theif...he had possession charges is the year 2000.....9 YEARS AGO!!!!! Do people not change????”

“My uncle was the one cleaning out his van @ 2:00. He needed to remove some seats from the van to move her cousin home from Toronto. He wanted to leave the seats on her front porch.

Tara says “I dont work, james doesnt work, we both got laid off at the same time from the same place...rodney doesnt work either and hasnt way before he started his "changing of his life" What does that have to do with my daughter missing????”

Tara says “I have been speaking to someone over the last 5 weeks if you really must know, to work through my grief....it has helped tremendously”. Does anyone find this a strange statement?

How could LE or anyone find anything she says useful. What a mom :thumbdown:

[Gugug]

EEEEK! :scared:

Poor Gugug! That is INSANE!! You need a restraining order or something!

Though, I was stalked about 5 years ago and the police do not seem to know what to do AT ALL when the internet is involved!

Yes, it was a difficult time. We changed our phone number. Then we issued no-contact letters to this person and her inner circle. Then we moved without forwarding information. One important thing: do a temporary relocate with Canada Post (costs the same as permanent relocate), and check the box that does not allow them to sell your information to third parties. This person used unwanted magazine subscriptions to track us before. Never notify a magazine of your new address in such cases. We're going to use a pseudonym for subscriptions in the future.

[Gugug]

Hi and welcome! :seeya:

IIRC, Tara mentioned that there was a lot of drugs going on in Woodstock. I don't live there so I don't know that for a fact. I'm not saying a drug cartel but let's say they (I'm including James) did owe these drug dealers money...who knows...even $15,000 worth, would that be a motive to kidnap Tori until the money is paid up?

Remember Tara said she felt it was a case of a "mildly vindictive" or something like that. So perhaps she thought the people holding Tori were going to punish her but not harm Tori. She needs to come up with the money or else she may never see her daughter again.

To me, drug dealers are criminals and there aren't any good guy criminals. She may even think these guys won't harm Tori because she considers them as friends in her warped mind. Who knows.

I think if the video wasn't as grainy as it is, we'd see the face but there are witnesses and there's no doubt about that. Someone knows who the abductor is.

Do you mind sharing your theory?

If such a debt occurred, it would most likely be a debt owed to one's superiors in the drug-dealing chain. Others have said junkies don't get credit. But dealers?

[BeetlebrowII]

:wub: to virgogal!

ITA to wondering about Tara's employment history. I certainly would not be surprised to learn that the choppiness of her work history would coincide with a very dramatic and traumatic life. It seems life has not been kind...

Life was not kind to Tori.......:crying: IMO

[Hope4Tori]

Hey everyone!! - and Beetlebrow!! :wub:and another newcomer, Mary Jane!:smile:

If in fact TM was actually the person posting yesterday on a FWall site as per the link provided by Virgogal last night, she made some very concerning statements, not to mention that I find it really self-destructive to her cause, IMO, if my assessment of her cause is to put herself out there to make herself a more sympathetic character in the public's view, IMO. She comes across in writing as defensive and self-centred as she does in person, IMO, and therefore it is hard for me to perceive that her "appearance" on Fwall could be a positive thing for her, and IMO, it continues to draw the focus to her and reinforce negative opinions of her by others - all JMO.

In my previous post I tried to explain that there are so many contradictions and distractions surrounding Tori's disappearance and TM has fuelled many of them, IMO. I can totally see why many people see her as suspect, and it is hard to imagine how she cannot see it herself, or if she does see it she seems intent on giving the public more ammunition to use against her, IMO. I worry that while her behaviours and attitude and personality are both fascinating and repellent at once, these things may be attracting our attention and analyses unwisely towards her as a prime suspect, when in fact, it could be someone else, IMO. That is unfortunate, IMO, because I imagine that if TM and RS and JG and LW and others were more ordinary characters with less mystery or hijinks in their lives, perhaps the perpetrator would be much easier to identify and could lead to finding Tori. I see the families and friends like an overgrown forest and somewhere among them lies the one small tree waiting for the sun to shine on the big tree(s) that are getting in the way and need to be located and cut down. Anyway, I'm getting poetic now, so back to TM's statement:

I will paraphrase because I don't want to risk being banned from this board:
TM said she has "bought Oxy's from RS", and cautioned that people shouldn't let his "I didnt know" fool the public. She said that he was also told years ago that TM was beating their kinds when he was on one of his two year hiatuses from his kids. TM commented that she would have kicked down his door if the shoe were on the other foot....but RS has never shown concern because he has never been around. She went on to write - in ALL CAPS - "LISTEN ONCE IN AWHILE....he hasn't been a part of the kids lives and when he was around, I was buying pills from him....SUPERDAD!!!!!"

I know her anger is raging. As a woman and mother, I can understand it to a degree. What I don't get, is how her own behaviours - past and present - don't cause her the same reaction. She lacks insight into herself, IMO, but that type of problem, while disconcerting, does not make her guilty of being involved in Tori's abduction, but it does make her rightly suspicious, IMO, and certainly does nothing to help her convince others of her innocence, IMO.

TM also said that Monday (tomorrow) would be her last pc, unless the press had questions or LE had new developments in the case.

There's more but I've got to go out for a bit - and I've got to eat something!

Hoping for fabulous news when I get back that Tori is rescued!:wub:

[Hope4Tori]

My bold - correction to previous post which was too late to edit.

I will paraphrase because I don't want to risk being banned from this board:
TM said she has "bought Oxy's from RS", and cautioned that people shouldn't let his "I didnt know" fool the public. She said that he was also told years ago that TM was beating their kids when he was on one of his two year hiatuses from his kids. TM commented that she would have kicked down his door if the shoe were on the other foot....but RS has never shown concern because he has never been around. She went on to write - in ALL CAPS - "LISTEN ONCE IN AWHILE....he hasn't been a part of the kids lives and when he was around, I was buying pills from him....SUPERDAD!!!!!"

May today be the end of Tori's ordeal by LE finding her alive and well and returning her finally to safety!:wub:

[BeetlebrowII]

Truthfully, both. I did try to save the birds by belling him. He just became more skillful than ever, lol. Mostly he was content keeping the rats and mice out of the out-house. And he hunted for fun more than hunger. He loved beans and cornbread but his favorite all time foods were collard greens and sweet potatoes He was a very Southern cat. When he got terminally ill, my intern year, I called my professors and said, "My cat is sick. I won't be back until it's over". OMG--that was unheard of.!!!!
I thought I'd lose my residency. When I returned a few days later, all these hardazz doctors were sympathetic and offered condolences. I know, I digress

What a great story. Collard greens huh? That has to be one for the record books. I'm sure he is watching out for you from above and every time you feel that urge to get another cat, trust me, he has something to do with it :tonguewag:

[Lorelei]

Some interesting quotes from another site!
--------------------------------------------------

Some things Tara tried to clear up on FB, these are some notes.

3:45 Daryn came home...no Tori. I thought Tara originally said 4:15.
4:00-approx 4:30 drove around with my mom and Daryn looking for Tori
4:30 Mom dropped me off to call friends houses, Mom kept driving and lloking....5:21, I called her cell...told her to go to the poilce station....Good enough for everyone????


She did say originally that DS came home at 4:15. That's a half hour difference. And surely DS wouldn't have had time to walk the disabled girl home and get home by 3:45. And that would have left TM only 15mins to be filmed on that video and be home in time to see DS at 3:45.. if it was her. That doesn't add up. Why is she changing the times?

I can see all this going down in a 45 mins timefram... from 3:32 to 4:15but not in a 15 mins timeframe. That's just too incredibly unbelievable. As stated on the GTA's most wanted, it would take a child at least 10mins to walk from school to home either way you went. So it's impossible that DS walked a girl home, then made it home by 3:45.

[Orleaner12]

Good Afternoon all...what a bummer of a weekend, weather wise eh!..I see our in house Ms Marple, H4T has been using those little grey cell:wink:...wow, H4T your do make some great points of interest...

I was wondering where Tara's bio father fits into this scenerio....it seems he has had his share of women.....wouldn't be the first time a GF took an interest in a GD...as adorable as little Tori is at times she looked much older to me that 8!

[Orleaner12]

sorry...that should read "than 8"..

[Hope4Tori]

Hey folks - I just wrote a response and my internet connection stopped and when I pressed back it was gone - grrrrr - so here goes again . . .

Lorelei and Kittymama - Great observations! :thumbsup: And IIRC TM did say at a p/c (on the record) that DS got home on or about 4:15 pm and that she was not actually all that concened in the moment because Tori was, and I'm paraphrasing here, known to be a dawdler, and would often be the last kid in the line of kids on the way home and that she often met up with her friends and played on the way home.

As for her reference to RS having been alerted by "someone" that TM was beating her kids, I think she was trying to make the point that she was not in fact beating her kids, but since he was not around and had no way of knowing if that "accusation" was true, she cannot understand why he did nothing to investigate the situation nor did he intervene on behalf of the children and did nothing to protect them. In others words, IIUC, he didn't so much as bother to question the allegation or rumour, and TM's saying her response had the tables been turned, would have been swift and immediate!

Here is more from the FWall (See Virgogal's link posted yesterday and Justmy2cents posted another site link on the links page - very interesting indeed - and big thanks to both for sharing the info!!) - and I must give credit where credit is due - that particular FWall has a very bright, articulate and balanced moderator and as well some intelligent and caring posters! :thumbsup:

FWall Questioner to TM:
"Why did you say that you thought the sketch wasn't credible?
Why did you say the witness only got a quick glance at the suspect?
Did the police tell you this?
Do you know who the witness that provided the info for the sketch is?"

TM's response, (if in fact it was actually TM, which by the "voice" I am inclined to believe it is, as Kittymama also noted)
Paraphrasing here: TM admitted that she does know who the witness is...and went on to say that they only got a brief look at the lady with Tori, that is why she doesn't go on the sketch. She said she has looked at it with every single hair and eye color, with glasses, without, and I cannot identify the person.

Very interesting. . . Does she know who the witness is personally or has LE released to her their identity or did the witness identify themselves directly to her? If she knows the person and the person know her - as in prior to that day they had some sort of casual or closer relationship - then if she was the person identified by the witness why would LE even release a sketch? Why if she is not the person the witness identified, does LE not clear her as a suspect based on that? Unless LE suspects involvement of the witness for some unkown reason and therefore cannot rule out TM? But if the witness was in fact under any suspicion by LE, why would they release the sketch? Unless the witness doesn't know they are being considered as suspicious or somehow involved and neither does TM or anyone else know LE thinks this either? Any thoughts, folks?

Wishing for Tori's safe rescue by LE today!:wub:

[nothingnew]

Here is something that i don't understand, I am asking this from anyone who has a daughter as I do.

From my experience as having a daughter and her many many friends all the girls have long hair. Not maybe all long but not boy short. Tori's hair is boy short (and in all her pictures it is short, leading me to her hair has always been this way) the girls that my daughter plays with who have had boy short hair has been due to lice. I am not saying this is true in all situations but considering Tara herself has long hair and seems to be a girly type woman, Why is this little girls hair so short?

Starting in 2nd grade my hair was short by my choice. I hated the hair brushing by my mom and worse were the head bands or ponytails that gave me headaches. Dad intervened and I got to have my hair short. It stayed that way until maybe 5th or 6th grade. I was still a girly girl, never wore jeans, always in skirts or dresses and had the earrings-just hated having to deal with long hair.

[Lorelei]

Yeah my mother cut my long hair when I was 9, she was tired of dealing with tangles. Kids these days tho IMO are more aware of their looks and what they like. Perhaps it was Tori's choice to have her hair short.

[nothingnew]

If such a debt occurred, it would most likely be a debt owed to one's superiors in the drug-dealing chain. Others have said junkies don't get credit. But dealers?

If someone gives credit to a dealer that is also addicted then they are just looking for too much drama and TIME getting back their investment, so no, not likely to get credit if you are addicted, period. It could happen but probably not more than once.

[doctor_J]

Hi everyone, just checking in for news and reading. Got to do other things today. Just wandering about the Facebook Q and A last night. Whose computer was Tara using? And how is LE going to keep up with them all? They need to know every time she has access to one. Wonder if anyone thought to report that "interview" to LE??

[BeetlebrowII]

I am wondering if at the start Tara had asked someone to care for Tori because she was conflicting with her, and maybe withdrawing from the Oxy? Once other folks got involved it became a police matter? Maybe her mother pushed for it? If Tara feels that her mother may have been judging her 'mothering'...it might be pretty hard to tell her that she just needed a 'break'. And things rolled on from there...?
As we have seen in the Anthony saga these things can take on a whole life of their own, stories sometimes just become bigger dramas.

For what it's worth...I don't think Tara ever thought any of it would be caught on tape. Someone has to know who owns a white coat like that...white is not a very popular colour in snow country, and I doubt it was only worn once.

Again....I just can't see a drug connection here. Intent to distribute isn't a 'huge' offense here in low level narcotics, to risk a kidnapping/murder charge? They would have to be as dumb as a box of rocks...they would know that there is no money...risk that to 'teach' someone a lesson? I would think that it would just complicate someone's life...who needs an 8 year old to care for? 'Dealers' are busy...they don't often 'babysit'.
I really believe that someone out there knows who owns that white coat, and where Tori is...who knows what type of story Tara has told them?
Maybe I am just a romantic at heart...I think she's alive.

Just my opinion of course...

ITA BJ :smile:

I also believe that it was probably hard for Tara to call her mom and tell her Tori was missing/ask for help searching for Tori. I'm sure her mom gave her a piece of her mind. This tells me that Tara really did not have anything to do directly with Tori's abduction. She just made it alot easier with her lifestyle.

If neither Tara nor James has a job..........why in the carp did G-mom have to pick Tori up from school when the weather was bad??????
I think Tara and/or James had a job but like everything else it has been kept private by Tara because "people will judge me".....:sneaky:
And of course I am loosely defining the word "job"....lol.

[BeetlebrowII]

That white coat is the biggest clue. I agree with you that we don't see too many white coats in snow country.

You don't think a drug debt could be a possibility? I think it's very possible. No, they won't babysit an 8 year old but they may hold her until the debt is paid, if not........:sad:

I want to hear more about those phone calls. I think they were threats.


ETA: Forgot to add one thing about the white coat. That's why I believe it's Tara in the video. A kidnapper wouldn't wear a colour that would make them stand out from the crowd. KWIM

I agree with Dr. J that dealers do not let you buy drugs on account.......at least not in large enough amounts to justify kidnapping.
If a drug debt is involved it would have to be something to do with dealing drugs.......and in SIGNIFICANT ($) amounts IMO.

I had no idea about the white jacket stuff......I am currently in Texas....that is interesting, makes you wonder if there are people who know who it is but are afraid to come forward.

Maybe they know who took Tori but do not want Tori returned to drug addicts....:closedeyes:

[BeetlebrowII]

What about loan sharks?

Or Tara/James stole something for $ to buy drugs.

[nothingnew]

Hi everyone, just checking in for news and reading. Got to do other things today. Just wandering about the Facebook Q and A last night. Whose computer was Tara using? And how is LE going to keep up with them all? They need to know every time she has access to one. Wonder if anyone thought to report that "interview" to LE??

Why YES!, someone DID think to report this to LE. Wanna guess who?.............'alleged' Tara! and I too think it's really her. She's "capturing" all of the chat so that she can report some slanderous stuff that was being said by a few posters. Well, so she said anyway. Seemed very proud of herself about the whole reporting to LE thing so they can investigate and we'll just see who's sorry now!

[BeetlebrowII]

Are you hinting that someone wanted Tori to look less feminine?
Like a mother jealous of her own daughter? Or like a mother trying to protect her daughter from drawing too much attention to her? That`s quite possible. I wonder how Tori felt about it.
Then again, my parents used to radically cut my hair at that age too because my dad admired my long neck or something silly like that. And for my mom it had practical advantages.

:laugh: My sister and I had the "Prince Valiant" haircuts with straight accross short bangs and the length just below our ears..........we hated it!!! :angry:

[doctor_J]

Why YES!, someone DID think to report this to LE. Wanna guess who?.............'alleged' Tara! and I too think it's really her. She's "capturing" all of the chat so that she can report some slanderous stuff that was being said by a few posters. Well, so she said anyway. Seemed very proud of herself about the whole reporting to LE thing so they can investigate and we'll just see who's sorry now!

Did Tara say where she got the computer?? Last I heard she was whining about NOT having one and someone on FB was pleading for someone to offer to loan her one. Apparently she couldn't live without one.

[nothingnew]

Did Tara say where she got the computer?? Last I heard she was whining about NOT having one and someone on FB was pleading for someone to offer to loan her one. Apparently she couldn't live without one.

I never saw anything about explaining where the computer came from but I did miss a lot, maybe someone else Heard something. She only answered a couple of the questions asked of her, the rest of the time it was "get a life" type of posting.

[nothingnew]

Oh and there were quite a few times that people offered to pick her (Tara) up when THEY (the FB posters) were going to go searching for Tori but she never responded to those offers.

[BeetlebrowII]

Hey everyone!! - and Beetlebrow!! :wub:and another newcomer, Mary Jane!

If in fact TM was actually the person posting yesterday on a FWall site as per the link provided by Virgogal last night, she made some very concerning statements, not to mention that I find it really self-destructive to her cause, IMO, if my assessment of her cause is to put herself out there to make herself a more sympathetic character in the public's view, IMO. She comes across in writing as defensive and self-centred as she does in person, IMO, and therefore it is hard for me to perceive that her "appearance" on Fwall could be a positive thing for her, and IMO, it continues to draw the focus to her and reinforce negative opinions of her by others - all JMO.

In my previous post I tried to explain that there are so many contradictions and distractions surrounding Tori's disappearance and TM has fuelled many of them, IMO. I can totally see why many people see her as suspect, and it is hard to imagine how she cannot see it herself, or if she does see it she seems intent on giving the public more ammunition to use against her, IMO. I worry that while her behaviours and attitude and personality are both fascinating and repellent at once, these things may be attracting our attention and analyses unwisely towards her as a prime suspect, when in fact, it could be someone else, IMO. That is unfortunate, IMO, because I imagine that if TM and RS and JG and LW and others were more ordinary characters with less mystery or hijinks in their lives, perhaps the perpetrator would be much easier to identify and could lead to finding Tori. I see the families and friends like an overgrown forest and somewhere among them lies the one small tree waiting for the sun to shine on the big tree(s) that are getting in the way and need to be located and cut down. Anyway, I'm getting poetic now, so back to TM's statement:

I will paraphrase because I don't want to risk being banned from this board:
TM said she has "bought Oxy's from RS", and cautioned that people shouldn't let his "I didnt know" fool the public. She said that he was also told years ago that TM was beating their kinds when he was on one of his two year hiatuses from his kids. TM commented that she would have kicked down his door if the shoe were on the other foot....but RS has never shown concern because he has never been around. She went on to write - in ALL CAPS - "LISTEN ONCE IN AWHILE....he hasn't been a part of the kids lives and when he was around, I was buying pills from him....SUPERDAD!!!!!"

I know her anger is raging. As a woman and mother, I can understand it to a degree. What I don't get, is how her own behaviours - past and present - don't cause her the same reaction. She lacks insight into herself, IMO, but that type of problem, while disconcerting, does not make her guilty of being involved in Tori's abduction, but it does make her rightly suspicious, IMO, and certainly does nothing to help her convince others of her innocence, IMO.

TM also said that Monday (tomorrow) would be her last pc, unless the press had questions or LE had new developments in the case.

There's more but I've got to go out for a bit - and I've got to eat something!

Hoping for fabulous news when I get back that Tori is rescued!:wub:

Wow.......let me get this straight.......Tara was buying pills from Rodney.....yet Rodney was not paying child support and she was letting him get away with it (remember she said that she let him off the hook with the child support). I guess we know what the priority was for both of them :cursing:.

Why hasn't someone (Canadian services, family) intervened and gotten those kids out of there. I know LE must know all this.......why is Daryn still there?????

[Hope4Tori]

Hey everyone again . :rolleyes:

There is speculation on that FWall (Virgogal's link posted yesterday) that the reason TM came clean so to speak about publically acknowledging her drug addiction and methadone treatment, is because the family dog, Cosmo was accidentally (or otherwise?) poisoned and that is the reason the dog needed to go to the vet's and she believed that the drug problem would be made public. Someone identified as TM's aunt BB had posted awhile back (mid May) on the FWall that the dog had fell sick (poisoned?) from something it ate in the garbage, but that post was quickly deleted, and therefore it cannot be substantiated by me, and I guess then it is now merely a rumour, to please consider that info as such. More recently the info was changed to the dog having injested something like an object of hard plastic, but perhaps that's just another rumour - who knows? The truth is difficult to ascertain because personally the only person I would believe as to what actally happened to the dog, is the vet, and he's keeping the details confidential.

TM said later in yesterday's FWall conversation, that LE has known about her addiction problem and methadone use from day one. And as for the CAS investigating her, paraphrasing here: TM said that they did come to her house, upon receiving a complaint from an "a*shole neighbour" and they spoke to her and the children and declared that she was doing an amazing job raising the kids on her own. In the p/c TM said JG gets little to no credit for all he had done for the kids - is she raising them on her own or does she have help? I guess that comes down to the on-again off-again nature of TM and JG's relationship?

As well, do you recall when Tori was first missing how RS commented - going on memory here and paraphrasing -that RS was suprised and appreciative of the people in Woodstock community despite some people whom may not have thought well of him in the past, they were all lending him their support (or someting to that effect)? I am asking because yesterday I watched the "blow-up" between RS and TM during Friday, May 15th's p/c and Tara specifically pointed out how even RS's own family wanted nothing to do with him before Tori's abduction but how they were now suddenly giving the public the impression that they are all very close and united. Had RS been doing drugs? Had RS been supplying drugs to TM? During TM's FWall conversation TM cautioned posters to be careful about what they were talking about because - paraphrasing here: RS must have a fly on the wall here and that RS had just called "freaking out" and she wished everyone could have heard that side of him. Are things escalating way out of control in this situation? I hope they both get a breather from everything being written and commented on - they both need to stay away from computers unless they have something of value to add, IMO. They cannot be objective enough to stop fighting for control and sympathy long enough to get busy doing something constructive to help find Tori, IMO.

Were there any "responsible and caring and united family members on either side" prior to Tori's abduction? Was anyone aware of the significant drug issues and if they were present and aware, why did no one step in to protect the best interests of both Tori and DS? TM in Friday's p/c said that her children were completely unaware of her drug habit and that it didn't effect her parenting. Then in almost the same breath when asked if the tension between she and RS could cause her to relapse, her response was immediatelty, no, because she would be no use to DS or to Tori when she gets home and she had to be strong for them. She says methadone makes her feel substantially calmer than when she is abusing drugs, so there is a difference in her behaviour and she in one moments denies it having any impact on her mothering and then acknowledges how important it is for her to remain drug free for the sake of her children.

I wonder if perhaps now, someone close will offer to help and support DS with any issues he may be having. Children are badly effected when parents are in conflict, so his heartache must seem sometimes unbearable, and he doesn't have Tori to turn to for comfort. TM commented yesterday on the FWall that he is getting counselling presently from a member of the clergy whom also happens to be a psychologist - if true, at least that's a step in the right direction?

more to follow . . .

LE - Please find Tori and bring her home safely for her sake and for her brother's sake - please solve this heartbreaking mystery now!:wub:

[BeetlebrowII]

She did say originally that DS came home at 4:15. That's a half hour difference. And surely DS wouldn't have had time to walk the disabled girl home and get home by 3:45. And that would have left TM only 15mins to be filmed on that video and be home in time to see DS at 3:45.. if it was her. That doesn't add up. Why is she changing the times?

I can see all this going down in a 45 mins timefram... from 3:32 to 4:15but not in a 15 mins timeframe. That's just too incredibly unbelievable. As stated on the GTA's most wanted, it would take a child at least 10mins to walk from school to home either way you went. So it's impossible that DS walked a girl home, then made it home by 3:45.

Someone probably pointed out that 45 min., was a long time for Daryn to walk home (even if he helped another student). She seems to adjust things to make herself look better/cover up something, without any thought of whether her statements make sense or not.

I think we should start from a point where everything she says is a lie and work from there! :tonguewag:

[Lorelei]

Wow.......let me get this straight.......Tara was buying pills from Rodney.....yet Rodney was not paying child support and she was letting him get away with it (remember she said that she let him off the hook with the child support). I guess we know what the priority was for both of them :cursing:.

Why hasn't someone (Canadian services, family) intervened and gotten those kids out of there. I know LE must know all this.......why is Daryn still there?????

Beetlebrow, child services won't get involved unless the child is in mortal danger. I knew a woman in Montreal who had 3 kids, her crack addiction was completely out of hand, first thing she did when got her welfare check was go out and spend it all on crack, she'd spend the rest of the month going through garbage to find stuff to sell, and spend the month at food banks getting the bare minimum for her kids. It was digusting, the kids lived on water and peanut butter sandwiches. And child services wouldn't do anything about it because she was providing the bare minimum. Not sure how child services works in Ontario. What the criterias are for removing a child from their home.

[BeetlebrowII]

Oh and there were quite a few times that people offered to pick her (Tara) up when THEY (the FB posters) were going to go searching for Tori but she never responded to those offers.

Uhhh........OK :confused:

Someone probably donated a computer to her because they felt sorry for her. If she figures out that she can get stuff by appealing to ignorant people's sympathy.......watch out, the floodgates will open.

She won't go on searchs.......did not talk to staff at Tori's school........has not talked to Cressant Care staff.........pleeeeeeeze!!!!

IMO she knows who has Tori (not where).........and she knows WHY they took her.........and she is pissssed.

[Hope4Tori]

Did Tara say where she got the computer?? Last I heard she was whining about NOT having one and someone on FB was pleading for someone to offer to loan her one. Apparently she couldn't live without one.

Hey Doctor J!:) Someone posted a message on the FWall they had apparently received from TM saying, "Thanks to Shawn and his family for lending me the computer" ... - paraphrasing now: it goes on to say how TM is cleaning out rude people from her facebook, and how these people ruin things for everbody... The time stamp on the message was Wed 7:34pm - sorry no date.

I hope Tori is found alive and well in the meantime!:wub:

[BeetlebrowII]

I'm surprised CAS hasn't stepped in and removed Daryn. They're normally right on the ball about things like that. Whether placed with relatives or temp foster care, he should not be there. imo

With everything that has come out directly from Tara in the past few days, hopefully they will step up and start an investigation. Maybe they think that removing Daryn from the home would be too much trauma for him at this time because he is still traumatized from the abduction.

[BeetlebrowII]

Beetlebrow, child services won't get involved unless the child is in mortal danger. I knew a woman in Montreal who had 3 kids, her crack addiction was completely out of hand, first thing she did when got her welfare check was go out and spend it all on crack, she'd spend the rest of the month going through garbage to find stuff to sell, and spend the month at food banks getting the bare minimum for her kids. It was digusting, the kids lived on water and peanut butter sandwiches. And child services wouldn't do anything about it because she was providing the bare minimum. Not sure how child services works in Ontario. What the criterias are for removing a child from their home.

This is horrible :crying:

But it is amazing how a little publicity can grease the squeaky wheels!!

[Orleaner12]

Wow.......let me get this straight.......Tara was buying pills from Rodney.....yet Rodney was not paying child support and she was letting him get away with it (remember she said that she let him off the hook with the child support). I guess we know what the priority was for both of them :cursing:.

Why hasn't someone (Canadian services, family) intervened and gotten those kids out of there. I know LE must know all this.......why is Daryn still there?????


maybe Rodney was paying child support only in pill form...hmmmmm he has no job and as per Tara not for some time...I know the Ont. gov. is paying him to go to school so I am sure he will milk that as long as possible... god what a waste of taxpayers $$$$$$...

[nothingnew]

Uhhh........OK :confused:

Someone probably donated a computer to her because they felt sorry for her. If she figures out that she can get stuff by appealing to ignorant people's sympathy.......watch out, the floodgates will open.

She won't go on searchs.......did not talk to staff at Tori's school........has not talked to Cressant Care staff.........pleeeeeeeze!!!!

IMO she knows who has Tori (not where).........and she knows WHY they took her.........and she is pissssed.

Tara's lack of actually searching was what was prompting the offers. There are people that are going out on searches every day but Tara is NOT one of them. That's why there are offers out there to include her, and the offer is open to Rodney as well. Even if she is not searching she can still get to the nearby towns and put up more flyers. But no, it is more important to spend 4 hours of her Saturday on a message board. Like someone there was asking-just how much "quality time" is her son getting?

[BeetlebrowII]

maybe Rodney was paying child support only in pill form...hmmmmm he has no job and as per Tara not for some time...I know the Ont. gov. is paying him to go to school so I am sure he will milk that as long as possible... god what a waste of taxpayers $$$$$$...

Ya know.......I think you are right. Explains why Tara never went after him for child support!! Also explains his disappearance for extended periods of time (things were heating up, had to leave).

I wonder who owns the snowblower James allegedly stole.

I wonder if Rodney has a criminal record in another part of Canada.

I wonder how Rodney will respond to Tara's FB allegations. So far, being honest and up front has worked well for him. I think he is enjoying his fan base. Will reporters have the cahonees to question him about his drug past???.

[days of yore]

We Doooo seem to think along the same lines! No wonder 'you know who' pitted us together!

Hope she has joined Matty Gee...and has melded into his miserable armpit! :rolleyes:

Hey Virgogal! :smile:

Just signing on and catching up from where we left off from last night. I agree, great minds think alike, but I'm a little slow picking up on who 'Matty Gee' is?? :blushing:

[days of yore]

If I may just get something off my chest for a minute:

Back in one of the earlier PC's, Tara was showing the picture of Tori that was taken at school the day before she disappeared. Then she said something like, "I have one of Daryn, too, but I didn't bring it out." She said it as though she regretted that she hadn't brought out Daryn's picture. I found that extremely strange, as Daryn is not the child who is MISSING! She had absolutely no reason to show his picture, and it would have been inappropriate to do so.

I don't think I would have mentioned it, except that she still seems to put Daryn before Tori when she's talking about needing to be there for her kids and whatnot. That makes no sense to me at all.

She certainly has said a lot of things that make ya think twice... For me, because I tend to be in agreement with Virgogal's thinking, I see it as a slip of the tongue. Her most prized possessions are her kids, and for a moment, she forgets that she's there only to discuss her one missing child (which she probably has hidden safely away and therefore not capable of showing what emotions/actions/reactions we expect), slips, as she proudly shows a pic of Tori and mentions her other child while she's showing Tori's.

[days of yore]

Dr J,

I can't either, for lack of information....though I do see traits of hystrionic/narcisstic PD but not borderline.
Yes, I would LOVE it if we could both sit down with her!!!!

Tara is definitely not psychotic. She is clearly in touch with reality.

I am unconvinced that she killed her child. She may have arranged an abduction...out of a revenge scenario...but I doubt she is sufficiently detached to have comitted murder. JMO...I really do not have enough insight or knowledge.

IMO Tara has 'avoided' maturity by escaping into alcohol and drugs whenever life became difficult.
In her 30's she now has poor coping skills and an addiction, which results in poor judgement and life skills.

As a narcissist or a hystrionic...she also demands a LOT of attention and reassurance.

Her PC's and posts online are evidence...She is OVERLY concerned about her public image and WISHES we would all LIKE her and be on her side. She also overreacts and her main oulook is defended.

I would imagine that as a friend or lover, she would be VERY difficult to get along with. She would be very self centered and defensive/argumentative. Not to mention emotionally manipulative...

As a mother I would imagine that she very much enjoyed the 'toddler' years, when her children ADORED her. I would bet it was FAR less rewarding after the age of 7 or so, when children become MORE egocentric, and begin to 'see' their parents flaws and call them on them!

While most parents respect their children and value that stage of development...I would put money down that Tara, as an addict, responded to Tori's normal emotional development with contempt and guilt inducing responses.

IMO I bet that is why Tori started emailing her father.

Just my opinion.....

You are amazing!! I read both this and your earlier post about what you see and I would totally agree with you!! I think your assessment is spot on! :wub:

[days of yore]

I'm going to try to work one out. It's going to take a while, and if you hear screaming, send help, but I'll give it a shot.

May the grace of God be with you!!! :scared: :laugh:

[BeetlebrowII]

Tara's lack of actually searching was what was prompting the offers. There are people that are going out on searches every day but Tara is NOT one of them. That's why there are offers out there to include her, and the offer is open to Rodney as well. Even if she is not searching she can still get to the nearby towns and put up more flyers. But no, it is more important to spend 4 hours of her Saturday on a message board. Like someone there was asking-just how much "quality time" is her son getting?

Well she did say that LE is wasting their time looking in Woodstock. She also alluded to the fact that she thought Tori was in another country. She knows who took her.......that is why she is not searching.

I have to believe someone took Tori away from home because they cared about her well being. It adds up with all we are seeing. It is sooooo rare for a woman to abduct an 8yr old girl.

This person(s) also did not get along with Tara (unfortunately this is probably a large group of suspects :tonguewag:).

I wonder how big Rodney's family is and where they all live. At first I did not suspect his family because Rodney came across as honestly wanting to find Tori. Now I believe that Rodney would probably NOT KNOW if someone from his family is involved because of his alleged past split with them. Hmmm.......and I think this is who Tara suspects too.

[days of yore]

ThinkTank--good job, very well thought out and comprehensive. I am impressed.

I don't agree, but I am impressed.

What up with Tara'a obsession with a trust fund for the kids, one of whom she doesn't know if she'll ever see again???? People who do not know how they'll pay for next year's school supplies don't worry about trust funds. Why not raise money to help search for Tori? Of course the trust fund as a ruse would tie in well with ThinkTank's theory.

I'm wondering if the trust fund thing was perhaps an after thought that they quickly latched to in order to make the 'best' of the situation out of motherly guilt. I mean, it seems like they don't have two cents to rub together and spent it all on drugs!?! :crying:

[doctor_J]

We're missing someone--Kenetic,,,,for a while. She seemed upset the last time she was on. I don't know what's up with that. He/she's been here longer than I have.

[days of yore]

Not sure if anyone posted this yet, in canada each province has different commom - law laws, in ontario you have to be living with someone for 1 year to be considered commom - law. Also since Tara stated that her and James both have been laid off it is quite possible that their family can do okay with both of them being on unemployment insurance.

OMG!!! It's down to 1 year now??!?!?!?!?!? :scared:

[nothingnew]

My favorite theory is that Tori is with friends or relatives of friends somewhere up north where the other kids in the household are homeschooled. Someplace very remote. One thing that keeps me on that track is 3 or 4 weeks ago there were 2 psychics on tv. One of them said that this involved 2 women and a man and said some other stuff-I was only have listening. Immediately afterwards they showed Tara blasting the psychics and saying that these were just people looking for their 15 minutes etc. She was overly defensive in my eyes, especially seeing as not too many people were taking these psychics all that seriously-mostly they were "air filler" for the tv show. OK-fast forward less than a week and she is "allegedly" hoping that Sylvia Brown is going to show up and shine a light on everything?

[days of yore]

What's interesting about grandma is according to Tara, she and her mom are not close but yet mom was there on that day? What does grandma know??

I'm curious, do we know for sure that this is the grandma in question?? Tara's birth mother, or could it be one of the many step-mothers we have been hearing about??? :confused:

[nothingnew]

I'm wondering if the trust fund thing was perhaps an after thought that they quickly latched to in order to make the 'best' of the situation out of motherly guilt. I mean, it seems like they don't have two cents to rub together and spent it all on drugs!?! :crying:

I, on the other hand am thinking that was the original plan-donations pouring in out of sympathy. A lot of problems with that theory but it would mean Tori is possibly safe and off with some family and their kids. I know a lot of people say that this would be cruel being away from her loved ones but when I was a kid I'd spend at least a month away from home with family.

[doctor_J]

We need to remember that Tara is not capable (or barely so) of feeling pain. The neurochemicals that produce painful physical and emotional sensations have been chronically suppressed by opiates. She is continuing to take a powerful pain suppressing opiate. It could take up to 6 months or longer for her brain to start producing the normal neurochemistry necessary for her to experience real pain. That's only going to start after she de-toxs and gets clean.

[Lorelei]

Has anyone been reading FB. Apparently someone called mrsugarcrips has been posting these comments on every video:

mrsugercrisp (2 hours ago)
Reply Tori Stafford
she is with in
a 3.4 miles from the school
100% you just have to look !

[Hope4Tori]

We're missing someone--Kenetic,,,,for a while. She seemed upset the last time she was on. I don't know what's up with that. He/she's been here longer than I have.

Hey Doctor J! :smile:Me too - We're missing you Kinetic!!!! - If you're here reading, come back and participate again soon - or whenever you feel like it, of course, I'm not meaning to add any pressure!

Would the good doctor agree that a change is as good as a rest, as the old saying goes, so maybe he/she (I never guess after Streeter bared her teeth at me for thinking she was a he:)) will come back soon, refreshed with a more objective perspective and even more brilliant insights for us to ponder!!:wub: I know my time-out really made all the difference for me!

[north-eh]

I am wondering if at the start Tara had asked someone to care for Tori because she was conflicting with her, and maybe withdrawing from the Oxy? Once other folks got involved it became a police matter? Maybe her mother pushed for it? If Tara feels that her mother may have been judging her 'mothering'...it might be pretty hard to tell her that she just needed a 'break'. And things rolled on from there...?
As we have seen in the Anthony saga these things can take on a whole life of their own, stories sometimes just become bigger dramas.

For what it's worth...I don't think Tara ever thought any of it would be caught on tape. Someone has to know who owns a white coat like that...white is not a very popular colour in snow country, and I doubt it was only worn once.

Again....I just can't see a drug connection here. Intent to distribute isn't a 'huge' offense here in low level narcotics, to risk a kidnapping/murder charge? They would have to be as dumb as a box of rocks...they would know that there is no money...risk that to 'teach' someone a lesson? I would think that it would just complicate someone's life...who needs an 8 year old to care for? 'Dealers' are busy...they don't often 'babysit'.
I really believe that someone out there knows who owns that white coat, and where Tori is...who knows what type of story Tara has told them?
Maybe I am just a romantic at heart...I think she's alive.

Just my opinion of course...

Good evening to my fellow Canadians and Happy Victoria Day weekend.
I agree about the person in the video not knowing it would be captured on tape. Tara herself commented on that very thing in one of her pc's. Something to the effect that the person was likely surprised when they found out they were videotaped.

I do NOT believe this has anything to do with a drug debt, I really don't. I am of the firm belief that the OPP know more than we think we do. I find it hard to believe that this video cannot be enhanced to see the face of the people in it. There's a lot that makes no sense IMO anyway.
N

[doctor_J]

Has anyone been reading FB. Apparently someone called mrsugarcrips has been posting these comments on every video:

mrsugercrisp (2 hours ago)
Reply Tori Stafford
she is with in
a 3.4 miles from the school
100% you just have to look !

Can someone pm me the FB link. I think CW said something about not posting them here but I can't find it. There are lots of TMs in Ontariol

[Hope4Tori]

TM's comments which blew my mind - had anyone here read or heard these items reported anywhere as fact or rumours? (FYI links posted already by Virgogal :thumbsup: Justmy2cents yesterday)

In response to a question, TM said on yesterday's FWall session, at 4:03 pm - Partial paraphrasing here: that "RS had a cookie (sic) ex wife, that's where the family and children's services came in, not because of any other reasons contrary to what other idiots have printed. They said that under no circumstances were the kids to be in her presence as she was harbouring unhealthy thoughts and feelings towards our children.....BUT HE MARRIED HER ANYWAYS.....she was the first person I sent the police to."

Same conversation, in response to a reference about another person (possibly one of RS's exes or current gf? Sorry, I didn't copy the question so I am presuming the logical explanation (note I didn't assume): "no the ex wife she is referring to is the one he married after CAS came to me and said that there are to be no visitations anywhere near the loony he married who's psychiatrist (hope you can read that word, it's a biggie) called CAS and said she was harbouring unhealthy thoughts and feelings towards our children"

"TM wrote at 1:56pm in FWall Q & A session yesterday In response to comments from a poster re molestation rumours surrounding JG: Please note (names changed to initials by H4T)

Poster Comment: "If the molestation thing is true, then maybe that is why Tori was taken. Either to protect her or get her out of the way."

TM: "Agreed with whoever said that if James was charged with anything against children, would he be in my house???? CAS would have taken DS out of here in a second, which I aklso (sic) might add I did not have an open file with CAS before this, and JG was not charged by me for anything, especially anything to do with hurting my kids. He has been the one here for these kids when their dad was not...even RS has admitted that"

My observation - last item - specific mention of DS but no specific metion of Tori.:sad:

TM: "I could really give a rats *** about Rodney and his family and what they are doing. I have my family support system and just becasue (sic) my mother isnt a part of it should really be none of anyones (sic)business. Then again, 99% of the things I have shared with the media and FB is none of anynes (sic) business, and it has nothing to do with attention. Daryn and Tori have always been the #1 attention getters in my life and as well they should be, they are my pride and joy, and I have lavished all of my time and effort and attention on them since the day they were born. If I could share with you all the home videos I have of me and James and the kids....you would all put your feet in your mouths....I am positive of one thing for sure and that is that we are great parents and our kids show that"

TM in response to poster: "give me some suggestions that you think I should be doing in aiding to find my daughter....you have no idea what my efforts have been....as I have not shared them with FB or the media....I think I may be entitled to sit in front of my computer for a bit...."

Any thoughts, folks?

Let all good intentions serve to help Tori be rescued tonight!:wub:

[Hope4Tori]

Good evening to my fellow Canadians and Happy Victoria Day weekend.
I agree about the person in the video not knowing it would be captured on tape. Tara herself commented on that very thing in one of her pc's. Something to the effect that the person was likely surprised when they found out they were videotaped.

I do NOT believe this has anything to do with a drug debt, I really don't. I am of the firm belief that the OPP know more than we think we do. I find it hard to believe that this video cannot be enhanced to see the face of the people in it. There's a lot that makes no sense IMO anyway.
N

Happy Victoria Day weekend to you North-Eh (love your name:)) and all Canadian posters - and everyone else too of course!!

ITA - not much makes sense - it's a big mystery and I feel for LE - will they be successful in untangling such a mess? - I go from thinking there's too much information - to not enough relevant information! I cannot handle this for much longer - and I'm not even involved . . . can you imagine how this confusion and worry is driving crazy those whom actually know and love Tori and whom have her best interests at heart!

I hope that in the end all of the poor behaviours will inspire some necessary changes among the people Tori and DS depend upon. Sometimes a crisis brings out the worst in people but some people will use the experience to improve. I hope for Tori and DS's sakes it will be a good outcome in all respects and for all concerned!

BTW - thank you for your kind comments a few days ago - I had meant to respond before - but I get easily distracted! Outside my window I can hear early revellers setting off fireworks - I wish Tori's rescue was the reason people were celebrating!:sad:

May Tori be brought to safety by LE tonight!:wub:

[Hope4Tori]

Has anyone been reading FB. Apparently someone called mrsugarcrips has been posting these comments on every video:

mrsugercrisp (2 hours ago)
Reply Tori Stafford
she is with in
a 3.4 miles from the school
100% you just have to look !

Hey Lorelei: That's so crazy! What videos are you referring to? I'm lost!:shrug: TIA


May tonight be the night Tori is rescued!!:wub:

[Lorelei]

Hey Lorelei: That's so crazy! What videos are you referring to? I'm lost!:shrug: TIA


May tonight be the night Tori is rescued!!:wub:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0a6oUxsEpE


that's only one of them, the person in question created the account something like 4 hours ago and in that time posted on 100+ videos with the same exact message

[doctor_J]

H4T--can u pm me the FB link? I can't find it and I can't get a response. U may be the only 1 here besides me.

[doctor_J]

Happy Victoria's Day Weekend to all Canadians! I've got to google to find out why Canadians celebrate Queen Victoria. I'm at a loss on the history of my northern friends.

[Lorelei]

H4T--can u pm me the FB link? I can't find it and I can't get a response. U may be the only 1 here besides me.

I think I did respond to your pm?

[Hope4Tori]

WOW H4T...When does your mind ever rest??

Fabulous job!

Hey Virgogal!:wub: When does yours??? Fabulous psychological insights by you and Doctor J both late last night - was it only last night? - it seems like a week ago already - I just sense that your impressions are highly credible, IMHO. Of course I have only experience and instinct to go on, but so far both have served me fairly well! I imagine your clients benefit greatly from your knowledge and sensitivity as you don't rush to judgement from what I can tell, but you have an empathetic nature that practically jumps off the page with your every post!!:thumbsup:

Going to sneak away now to do the Sunday crossword - don't know yet if I'll be back tonight - so glad tomorrow is a holiday! I hope you're having some fun this weekend at best - or at the very least getting some rest!!

Wishing and hoping for Tori's safe rescue tonight!:wub:

[nothingnew]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0a6oUxsEpE


that's only one of them, the person in question created the account something like 4 hours ago and in that time posted on 100+ videos with the same exact message

It's probably already been mentioned but about 55 seconds into that video when that car is passing Tori and the woman in the white coat and the boy, does the car honk at them? Because that is what it seemed like to me. I was mostly trying to watch "the walk", I haven't really watched the video before.

[doctor_J]

I think I did respond to your pm?

WOW, I should have thought about my old computer acting up. It's showing no pms but I know how to access. Thanks for the nudge in the ribs, lol.

[north-eh]

H4T--can u pm me the FB link? I can't find it and I can't get a response. U may be the only 1 here besides me.

Hi doctor_J did you get that Facebook link you were asking for? I always 2 windows open to Fb besides IS of course because there's always something being said in those groups interesting to read.

It boggles my mind that Tara feels she needs to be on FB commenting to posters all of the time. She certainly isn't doing herself any favours is she?

Hope4Tori hi again.
The celebrations started in our neighbourhood Friday night FGS! As a matter of fact they seem to have them most weekends here from now on, whether it's a holiday or not. :rolleyes: LOL!!!
N

[Hope4Tori]

I had been wondering about Rodney`s credibility ever since he had been shown on presser videos. Keeps rubbing his nose, crosses arms, doesn`t look at anyone straight. Maybe people do act weirder when they are under so much stress or angry but check out this link about body language http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A427277 (oops, not sure if it works...). Anyway, they attest nose rubbing to situations when white lies are told. I would tell white lies too if I had a questionable history.

Also, I read some studies about gait analysis after watching the surveillance video again. Gait is considered a very individual trait that is hard to camouflage and almost as precious as fingerprints. Not sure if it is reality yet but a scientific journal mentioned computer programs that can identify people based on gait only by measuring stride length, speed and other markers. I am sure LE has taken all of this into account as well. Actually, I walk very similar to the abductor in the video. I better stay away from Woodstock.

Now I`m off to fin white jacket studies...
Will post again.


Hey Think Tank!:thumbsup: Was just about to get away from here when I saw your post - great research!! Am literally going to post one last thing - from TM's FWall Q & A Session yesterday (link posted in the links section by Justmy2cents)

RE: Gait (I had suggested LE do this zillions of posts back, not that they didn't think of it first, but I'm glad they did this!)

my bold... (name changed to initials by H4T)

TM: "I have walked the same path for the police, I go to the nursing home frequently, my 87yr old Poppa lives there, I don't recognize the woman in the video, however, that doesnt mean I don't know the person, I have hired someone to try to enhance it better than the police, and JG and I have been taking turns walking DS to school and back, so we walk it frequently as much as it hurts"

Happy researching - Can't wait to see what you find to show and tell - and thanks for doing this - it is very helpful!!

Doctor J - glad to see you found what you were looking for - now if only you could go and find Tori!!! I love this group:wub:

Hoping for a miracle - a real miracle - for Tori tonight!:wub:

[Hope4Tori]

It's probably already been mentioned but about 55 seconds into that video when that car is passing Tori and the woman in the white coat and the boy, does the car honk at them? Because that is what it seemed like to me. I was mostly trying to watch "the walk", I haven't really watched the video before.

Hey nothingnew!:) - you need to change your name because that observation is astute and totally new to me!! Wonder if LE has sound on that video? Wonder if they thought of that? Wonder if they are reading? Hope so! Good thinking!!

Now that's really it for me for now - and going to close my eyes so I can't be tempted by anyone else's amazing posts!!:tonguewag:

Lorelei - thanks for the link!!- that's very bizarre - I truly hope LE are reading that FWall and I'm pretty certain they do!

T.O. Star and my diet coke are beckoning . . .

Praying for Tori and wishing her a happy and safe reunion with loved ones tonight!:wub:

[brooklinite]

I had been wondering about Rodney`s credibility ever since he had been shown on presser videos. Keeps rubbing his nose, crosses arms, doesn`t look at anyone straight. Maybe people do act weirder when they are under so much stress or angry but check out this link about body language http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A427277 (oops, not sure if it works...). Anyway, they attest nose rubbing to situations when white lies are told. I would tell white lies too if I had a questionable history.



Great observations, ThinkTank. The trouble with body language is that we're all so different. Some people are fidgety and nervous most of the time, and appear to be shifty when in fact they're just being themselves. The key is determining what someone's baseline is, and then noting changes from that baseline, and more importantly, what is being discussed when those changes occur. This is the same concept as the innocuous small-talk at the beginning of a lie detector test. It's also important to read a person's behaviours as a whole - groups of deceptive behaviours and their coincidence with sensitive subject matter are far more meaningful that single behaviours. I wonder if those who know the major players have noticed any deviations in their behaviour during the PC's...

[doctor_J]

My take on Rodney's body language all along was that he kept his head down and crossed his arms and fidgeted, etc. because he did not agree with what Tara was saying or how she was conducting the pc. I had the feeling he was saying "I must not have an outburst. I must not anger her. I must stand united for Tori's sake, etc." I think he was angry because he could not say what he really thought for the sake of keeping the peace. We'll see if that's correct now that he doesn't have to worry about keeping the peace any more.

Rodney sure doesn't get any parenting stars from me but he seems honest in his emotions and truthful in his responses. Remember, he could have exposed Tara's secrets all along and chose not to. She's throwing everything she can at him now and her bitterness is truly unbecoming in this situation. Right now, Rodney's past parenting failures are not important. The guy is quilt ridden already. I hope he gets a chance to make it up to her.

Why is it so important for Tara to make him look bad right now?? Why would she toss out that he sold her pills 9 years ago, before Tara's birth?. BTW, she said she'd only been on drugs 4 years so yet another contradiction.

I think Tara and James' addiction to very expensive drugs relates to this abduction but not because of money owed. I believe Tara's need for the drug influenced her judgement in the worst possible way. Her judgement remains impaired, as we all can see.

[BeetlebrowII]

My take on Rodney's body language all along was that he kept his head down and crossed his arms and fidgeted, etc. because he did not agree with what Tara was saying or how she was conducting the pc. I had the feeling he was saying "I must not have an outburst. I must not anger her. I must stand united for Tori's sake, etc." I think he was angry because he could not say what he really thought for the sake of keeping the peace. We'll see if that's correct now that he doesn't have to worry about keeping the peace any more.

Rodney sure doesn't get any parenting stars from me but he seems honest in his emotions and truthful in his responses. Remember, he could have exposed Tara's secrets all along and chose not to. She's throwing everything she can at him now and her bitterness is truly unbecoming in this situation. Right now, Rodney's past parenting failures are not important. The guy is quilt ridden already. I hope he gets a chance to make it up to her.

Why is it so important for Tara to make him look bad right now?? Why would she toss out that he sold her pills 9 years ago, before Tara's birth?. BTW, she said she'd only been on drugs 4 years so yet another contradiction.

I think Tara and James' addiction to very expensive drugs relates to this abduction but not because of money owed. I believe Tara's need for the drug influenced her judgement in the worst possible way. Her judgement remains impaired, as we all can see.

Where did you see the "9 years ago" ???

I was watching some of the first videos and you can definitely see the flat affect of methadone. You would think that methadone would soften Tara's anger and defensiveness but it does not. From day one she has been angry when questioned.....what does that mean??

[Lorelei]

Just rewatched the press conference of 28th April, the one where TM talks about the famous limo ride, she says that after she came back around 11:00 pm, they drove around town with Daryn in the limo... why the heck would the limo driver agree to drive them around town? This doesn't make sense at all. I'm sure the limo guy wanted to get back to business... weird. And I loved when one reporter asked about the hair in the baggie, something like "did you ever think that might be Tori's hair in the bag?" and "maybe they're the ones holding your daughter?". She answered those questions very vaguely, then turned her back to the reporter asking the question and went on to answer something else, like she was avoiding further questions about the hair in the baggie. That whole press conference was strange. Strange story, strange answers and I'm getting strange vibes, feeling is telling me the limo people may be involved.

[doctor_J]

Where did you see the "9 years ago" ???

I was watching some of the first videos and you can definitely see the flat affect of methadone. You would think that methadone would soften Tara's anger and defensiveness but it does not. From day one she has been angry when questioned.....what does that mean??

Geez I made an idiotic mistake, let me clarify that whole reference to Tara's comments is second hand info from FB. I shouldn't have brought that up since I was not there when she commented and those who were cannot confirm it was her Someone posted her comment that when they were together, he sold her pills and I extrapolated that to 9 years. I regret that reference and will be more careful. I had never been to FB before and I have no idea of the relibility of anything from there. I tried to edit but too late.

So I DO NOT KNOW if Tara referred to Rodney giving or selling her pills. That is a rumor I should not have referenced.

My point was that she is apparently mudslinging which is inappropriate for either parent right now. Her judgement is impaired.

[brooklinite]

Hi ThinkTank - didn't mean to imply you weren't being careful with your statements. :biggrin:

In the absence of any significant developments, it's so hard to know where this case is going. I've looked at body language during the PC's too, and wished I had some context. Since we don't, though, all we can do is speculate and put more weight on the verbal statements (which I've been trying to do, but which is driving me equally crazy).

I think Tara must either be the kind of person who routinely manipulates the truth to suit her purposes, or she is fighting a losing battle against covering up what she knows/did. She has committed to so very many inconsistencies - too many to count, which is enough of a red flag in and of itself. She takes it so much further, though, IMO, with her defensiveness. Yes, it's absolutely normal for an innocent person accused of doing something to be increasingly angry and defensive as time goes by, but focusing on libel/slander and the shortcomings and public opinion of an ex-spouse is not where I think this anger would typically be directed. A typical innocent person, when accused of something, is going to do everything they can to shout from the mountaintops "I did not do anything!" and will go out of their way to help prove that fact.

Vague, brusque answers, contradictions, cutting questions off before they've been properly asked, fanciful stories suddenly full of detail (limo ride...?) in an otherwise vague dialogue, underlining the differences between one's own behaviour and that of a guilty person (Susan Smith reference...?), slip ups (again, so many, but "protect" and the occasional use of past-tense come to mind), defensiveness, premature dismissal of potentially helpful information (possible sightings in Calgary, similarity of sketch to Sara, witness getting a good look), withholding of potentially helpful information (drug addiction - although we don't know if this was whithheld from police), concern over public opinion of self - none of these things are what I would expect from someone who truly does not know where their child is and wants them back at any cost. As I've said before, none of this equates to guilt, but I don't think anyone can argue that it just doesn't look good. I realize that I'm probably overanalyzing everything, but there is still nothing that can justify all the inconsistencies.

Sorry for the rant. Just frustrated and upset like everyone else, and, much as I enjoy everyone's insight, wishing there was no need for a board like this.

[doctor_J]

Does anyone else think it's very odd that Tara has not expressed or shown any feelings of guilt. Maybe I missed some. All parents I've ever seen in this type situation feel and express extreme guilt. No matter now innocent they are, they feel and act gulity. They feel they failed their child in some way to protect them. Remember how guilty Beth Holloway and her ex. felt about letting her go to Aruba? Ed Smart and Mark Klaus were racked with guilt and to some extent still are. Rodney has expressed guilt. Tara has attacked the media and public for trying to make her feel guilty (seems that way to me, so MOO).

Could just be the drugs but most drug addicts in a public crisis try to mimic the emotions they think are appropriate .Examples, imo, are Hayleigh Cumming's mom and Trenton Duckett's mom.

[brooklinite]

doctor J, I'm not sure we've seen Tara accept guilt or responsibility for anything yet? I'm quite sure that the people in her life are not without fault, but still it seems that she is really quick to hand out blame to anyone but herself. Even when she spoke of her addiction, I didn't think Tara really held herself accountable for it. If she had, I think she would have admitted that it might have compromised her parenting. Perhaps feelings, or at least expressions, of guilt are foreign to her at this point, whether related to Tori or not? (I am just dipping my toes in on this one as it's way out of my element!)

[doctor_J]

doctor J, I'm not sure we've seen Tara accept guilt or responsibility for anything yet? I'm quite sure that the people in her life are not without fault, but still it seems that she is really quick to hand out blame to anyone but herself. Even when she spoke of her addiction, I didn't think Tara really held herself accountable for it. If she had, I think she would have admitted that it might have compromised her parenting. Perhaps feelings, or at least expressions, of guilt are foreign to her at this point? (I am way out of my element on this one!)

Glad I'm not the only one that thinks that is decidedly peculiar (I think I can safely call it abnormal).

[Lorelei]

Has anyone seen this video, the woman in the pink hat walking with her left hand in pocket and her right arm swinging is apparently TM's best friend SL. Reminds me awfully of the mystery woman, anyone else see that?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snDSLVuTQuc

[Lorelei]

I know a lot of people who walk that way. My Mom walks like that, for example. No, since I've been watching the press conferences, every time I watch the POI video it looks like Tara to me. I didn't think it was her until then. I know people say that the height and age is wrong, but every time I've seen a sketch or a video and the person is later caught, the age and height given for the sketch or video turn out to be wrong.

There was something else I was going to say...oh yeah--why doesn't it seem like she even cares if Tori comes home? I know she'll pay lip service to the idea, but that seems to be as far as it goes. Has she ever even said that she loves Tori?

I gotta be honest, I have no children. The closest I come is cats (who I ADORE!:wub:), but they're like my kids to me. I know it's silly, but it's all I have to go by so I try to imagine a similar situation if one of my cats went missing, and what my reaction would be (work with me here on pretending that a similar situation could happen with a cat, involving abductors and videos, etc.---quit laughing. I hear you laughing!:glare:). Now I do have one who thinks he's an outdoor cat (he's not), and he has disappeared on me once or twice. I flipped out. I couldn't sleep, I searched the neighbourhood for him, and I had no intention of resting, relaxing, eating, sleeping, watching TV, going on the internet (which I am also very fond of!), or doing anything else until he was safely back in the house. I was horrified at the thought of what he might be going through. And that's for a cat. I can't imagine why anyone would be so cavalier about their child.

Then again, I'm not a drug addict. (I swear! Although I'm afraid you will all think so after this crazy cat lady post! LOL!)

Kittymama, I understand completely about your kitties, I have three cats as well and I would feel the same, I never let my cats go out except on the balcony and I supervise them... I would be a complete wreck one of them went missing, I'd be a basket case if it were a child.

****
I like this link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090428.BLATCH28GTAART2245/TPStory/TPComment/Ontario/ this is to do with TM's polygraph interview. Her answers are so confusing, can you imagine what LE are thinking... If a child weren't missing, I would think this whole story is a joke.

[Jester]

Correct me if I'm wrong but unemployment insurance doesn't last forever. Depending on how much time the person was employed and contributed to UIC, the max would be one year and it's something like 60% of your salary. That may have changed, I don't know.

If they're all on welfare, I want to know WHY because my tax money is going to support them. They look healthy and able to work to me. No reason why they shouldn't have jobs including Rodney who should've paid child support for his children.
:thumbdown:

I recently read that the Canadian gov't extended unemployment benefits to 52 weeks - no idea what it was before. There is a maximum amount of about $1600 a month, regardless of income.

[doctor_J]

I know a lot of people who walk that way. My Mom walks like that, for example. No, since I've been watching the press conferences, every time I watch the POI video it looks like Tara to me. I didn't think it was her until then. I know people say that the height and age is wrong, but every time I've seen a sketch or a video and the person is later caught, the age and height given for the sketch or video turn out to be wrong.

There was something else I was going to say...oh yeah--why doesn't it seem like she even cares if Tori comes home? I know she'll pay lip service to the idea, but that seems to be as far as it goes. Has she ever even said that she loves Tori?

I gotta be honest, I have no children. The closest I come is cats (who I ADORE!:wub:), but they're like my kids to me. I know it's silly, but it's all I have to go by so I try to imagine a similar situation if one of my cats went missing, and what my reaction would be (work with me here on pretending that a similar situation could happen with a cat, involving abductors and videos, etc.---quit laughing. I hear you laughing!:glare:). Now I do have one who thinks he's an outdoor cat (he's not), and he has disappeared on me once or twice. I flipped out. I couldn't sleep, I searched the neighbourhood for him, and I had no intention of resting, relaxing, eating, sleeping, watching TV, going on the internet (which I am also very fond of!), or doing anything else until he was safely back in the house. I was horrified at the thought of what he might be going through. And that's for a cat. I can't imagine why anyone would be so cavalier about their child.

Then again, I'm not a drug addict. (I swear! Although I'm afraid you will all think so after this crazy cat lady post! LOL!)

I know EXACTLY how you feel. I told everyone a very brief story about my beloved cat last night. It's been 30 years and I could barely type of losing him while crying. It may be silly to some but not me. Love is love and grief is grief. I now have a son and 2 cats and of course my son comes first. But I would give my life attempting to save either.

I don't think there's any way to rationalize Tara's apathy. IMO, she doesn't care except for the impact on her life. It's chilling. Drugs don't come strong enough to anesthetize that pain. There's something fundamentally wrong with this woman.

[Jester]

Wow.......let me get this straight.......Tara was buying pills from Rodney.....yet Rodney was not paying child support and she was letting him get away with it (remember she said that she let him off the hook with the child support). I guess we know what the priority was for both of them :cursing:.

Why hasn't someone (Canadian services, family) intervened and gotten those kids out of there. I know LE must know all this.......why is Daryn still there?????

I'm late in following this case, so please bear with me while I ask a few catch up questions. How do we know that Tara is addicted to oxycontin, and how do we know she's getting a regular supply on the black market?

Is there evidence that children are in danger in Tara's care? Her daughter disappeared while in the care of the school. The school handed her off to someone that was unauthorized to pick her up. If the person was authorized, and the teachers were paying attention (doing their jobs) they would know who Tori left school with that day.

[doctor_J]

I recently read that the Canadian gov't extended unemployment benefits to 52 weeks - no idea what it was before. There is a maximum amount of about $1600 a month, regardless of income.

I seriously doubt that either draw unemplyment. With an admitted 4 year habit, Tara could not have functioned anytime recently as a Doula or fitness instructor or even a ditch digger. I've had to fire 2 long-time professional employees because of this drug. It becomes obvious, real fast. Heroin addicts don't have jobs,,,,it's the same thing.

To say it does not effect her parenting is an obscenity. I saw what happened to the parenting of those two employees and I can't descibe it here without getting banned. The children will never be fully rid of the scars.

I'm convinced Tori was a casualty of this addiction in a already disturbed mother.

I think they live on welfare supplemented with the sale of narcotics and theft. But JMO.

[Jester]

So she admitted to drug addiction? Is she getting help with that now? Has she really not confronted the school about who was supervising children after school? Was it normal for children to walk home from school alone? What does the school know about the abduction? Sorry ... I need to read up on this case ... what main newspaper is covering the story?

[Jester]

I seriously doubt that either draw unemplyment. With an admitted 4 year habit, Tara could not have functioned anytime recently as a Doula or fitness instructor or even a ditch digger. I've had to fire 2 long-time professional employees because of this drug. It becomes obvious, real fast. Heroin addicts don't have jobs,,,,it's the same thing.

To say it does not effect her parenting is an obscenity. I saw what happened to the parenting of those two employees and I can't descibe it here without getting banned. The children will never be fully rid of the scars.

I'm convinced Tori was a casualty of this addiction in a already disturbed mother.

I think they live on welfare supplemented with the sale of narcotics and theft. But JMO.

I doubt that as well. People have to be fully employed for a continuous period of 6 months to be eligible for unemployment insurance.

Any idea what welfare with two children is worth a month? I doubt it's very much.

[Jester]

It doesn't look like "my mother is a meth addict" is on the list.

http://www.gov.on.ca/children/english/programs/child/protection/STEL02_179715.html

[Jester]

Happy Victoria's Day Weekend to all Canadians! I've got to google to find out why Canadians celebrate Queen Victoria. I'm at a loss on the history of my northern friends.

I think it was more common for countries to declare a National holiday on the Queen's birthday in the past. Today, several countries still celebrate the birthday of the Queen that declared the holiday, even though there is a new Queen. Canada was somewhat British until the time of Trudeau (don't know the history either).

[Jester]

It's probably already been mentioned but about 55 seconds into that video when that car is passing Tori and the woman in the white coat and the boy, does the car honk at them? Because that is what it seemed like to me. I was mostly trying to watch "the walk", I haven't really watched the video before.

The woman in the white coat is walking ahead of Tori, and has her back to the camera towards the end. Who was across the street at that time that she may have been trying to avoid? Also, with her authoritative walk, it seems like she is telling Tori that it's urgent, and to walk faster. She's not holding her hand towards the end by the looks of it, but it does look like she's holding her hand at the beginning. Looks to me like a woman with whitish/blond (dyed color) hair that flips up a bit on the shoulders. She's got a black purse over her shoulder that looks shiny, like fake alligator. There looks to be a black stripe on her coat. How tall is Tori? The woman looks to be about 5'3" and 120-130lbs ... just a guess based on other things in the area. She's got her hands in her pockets. That's a very distinctive coat.

[Jester]

Has anyone posted still shots of the footage? It's like the woman either knows that there's a camera on her, or she knows someone across the street that she is avoiding. Has the man that meets to boy been identified?

[n/t]

Hi Jester,

Good to have you on board following this case. If you go the Links only thread, there are many great articles. London Press has had the best coverage so far and they have live streams of the press conferences everyday.

The woman is described as having black/dark hair and not white/blonde. Also, we can see her right arm swinging as she walks so she's not holding Tori's hand at all, imo. I think towards the end, when they're about to cross the street is when she reaches out to take Tori's hand.

Happy Victoria Day to my fellow Canadians! Praying Tori is found today. :rose:

[north-eh]

Kittymama, I understand completely about your kitties, I have three cats as well and I would feel the same, I never let my cats go out except on the balcony and I supervise them... I would be a complete wreck one of them went missing, I'd be a basket case if it were a child.

****
I like this link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090428.BLATCH28GTAART2245/TPStory/TPComment/Ontario/ this is to do with TM's polygraph interview. Her answers are so confusing, can you imagine what LE are thinking... If a child weren't missing, I would think this whole story is a joke.

Good Monday morning one and all.
I Lorelei, I used your quote as a starting point, thank you for the link.

doctor_J------> in that link and I've snipped it.
Tara says:
She was prescribed medication, she said, but added that she doesn't use it regularly, only when she is feeling "really, really, really anxious."

My concern is this, why would a Dr. prescribe anything more to a drug addict because I would think the possibility of her abusing it would be a given??

I'm praying today is the day that little Tori is brought back home to those who love and care for her.
N

[Amy]

Does anyone else think it's very odd that Tara has not expressed or shown any feelings of guilt. Maybe I missed some. All parents I've ever seen in this type situation feel and express extreme guilt. No matter now innocent they are, they feel and act gulity. They feel they failed their child in some way to protect them. Remember how guilty Beth Holloway and her ex. felt about letting her go to Aruba? Ed Smart and Mark Klaus were racked with guilt and to some extent still are. Rodney has expressed guilt. Tara has attacked the media and public for trying to make her feel guilty (seems that way to me, so MOO).

Could just be the drugs but most drug addicts in a public crisis try to mimic the emotions they think are appropriate .Examples, imo, are Hayleigh Cumming's mom and Trenton Duckett's mom.

That's kind of what I would expect a mom whose daughter has been abducted would say. "If only I had told her to walk the special needs kids home w/Daryn." "If only mom or friend or I had gone to pick her up from school." (Even if they didn't NORMALLY do this, such as if she usually walked w/brother.) So many "If only's"--but she never says that @ all. Of course, not being in her presence 24/7 I could not say she never does. But, instead of showing different things of Tori's, worrying about giving Daryn equal time in the pc, etc, you would think she would have, @ the first @ least, said some "if only's."

[Amy]

Has anyone seen this video, the woman in the pink hat walking with her left hand in pocket and her right arm swinging is apparently TM's best friend SL. Reminds me awfully of the mystery woman, anyone else see that?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snDSLVuTQuc

In this video, just before the 1 min mark, Tara IS showing emotion (I think) with James and Daryn, probably @ a vigil?

[Amy]

Has anyone posted still shots of the footage? It's like the woman either knows that there's a camera on her, or she knows someone across the street that she is avoiding. Has the man that meets to boy been identified?

I read in articles @ the beginning of the case they identified the man waiting for his child, and IIRC, he is who they got the description for the sketch from. (But, it's late, and that was a long time ago--if I have my "facts" wrong, someone will make a correction on it.) But that is how I remember it.

[n/t]

I wish we would get an update from the OPP. Six weeks and still no answers.

The family drama is interesting but I'd like to know what the police are doing. Are they any closer to finding out what may have happened? Do they still believe she's in Woodstock? Any new clues?

[4greatkids]

Tara says:
She was prescribed medication, she said, but added that she doesn't use it regularly, only when she is feeling "really, really, really anxious."

First of all, Happy Victoria Day to my fellow Canadians (or May two four weekend as it is referred to in these parts).

If doesn't make sense to me to be prescribed something for anxiety to be used only when you are really, really, really anxious. Someone having anxiety issues that have become a big enough problem to get a prescription for would have anxiety often not occasionally and the thing with anxiety is everything gets blown out of proportion and each attack becomes really, really, really anxious. I would think that the first twinges of anxiety would make you reach for the prescription to make the feelings stop or else the person could handle it alone and not need the prescription. I am not a Dr though and could be way off. I also think that if my child were missing I would have a 24 hour-a-day anxiety problem.

[n/t]

Tara says:
She was prescribed medication, she said, but added that she doesn't use it regularly, only when she is feeling "really, really, really anxious."

First of all, Happy Victoria Day to my fellow Canadians (or May two four weekend as it is referred to in these parts).

If doesn't make sense to me to be prescribed something for anxiety to be used only when you are really, really, really anxious. Someone having anxiety issues that have become a big enough problem to get a prescription for would have anxiety often not occasionally and the thing with anxiety is everything gets blown out of proportion and each attack becomes really, really, really anxious. I would think that the first twinges of anxiety would make you reach for the prescription to make the feelings stop or else the person could handle it alone and not need the prescription. I am not a Dr though and could be way off. I also think that if my child were missing I would have a 24 hour-a-day anxiety problem.

Oxy as far as I know is not an anti-anxiety medication. It's a pain medication eventhough I suppose it can can make someone relaxed. Maybe she was taking more than one drug. :shrug:

[doctor_J]

Good Monday morning one and all.
I Lorelei, I used your quote as a starting point, thank you for the link.

doctor_J------> in that link and I've snipped it.
Tara says:
She was prescribed medication, she said, but added that she doesn't use it regularly, only when she is feeling "really, really, really anxious."

My concern is this, why would a Dr. prescribe anything more to a drug addict because I would think the possibility of her abusing it would be a given??

I'm praying today is the day that little Tori is brought back home to those who love and care for her.
N

I can only speak of US laws regarding Methadone but ethics are pretty universal. If a person enrolled in a Methadone program here takes any other addictive or mind altering substance, they are susceptible to being kicked out of the program. No competent doctor would prescribe sedative, hypnotic or tranquilizer type drugs to a known Oxycontin addict. It would be malpractice. It is a given that they will abuse these drugs which are also addictive. It is against the law to give an addict addictive drugs (witness the Dr.'s being charged criminally over Anna Nicole Smith--also on Methadone). Also, most of the drugs can have severe adverse, paradoxical or synergistic affects when taken with Methadone. Some of these reactions are highly fatal. As I mentioned previously, a high % of Methadone patients continue to test positive for Oxycontin while in the program. They are usually warned many times and then have to be kicked out of the program for fear of overdose.

When considering the effects of Oxycontin on addicts, you must consider that this drug, more than all others, cannot be reliably and continuously obtained on the street. Dealers only get it sporadically, usually by buying it from people with legal prescriptions or from corrupt doctors and pharmacists. Therefore some of the worst of the behavior profile is due to the fact that these addicts, more than any others, are in a constant cycle of getting high and withdrawing. When in withdrawal, they are completely useless to anyone, including their kids. They may rotate thru 3 cycles a week. So they're either very high, sleepy, passing out, disoriented and satiated or in various stages of withdrawal, which is a nightmare in itself. They refer to this cycle as "spin drying". The children know only the two personalities of the parent, and by 6 or 7, they understand the cause.

As I said previously, I've never seen a Oxy addict that was not also addicted to one or more of the major tranquilizers, Xanax, Ativan or Valium. They use it mostly for the calming of withdrawal, for the insomnia and mostly for the hand tremors that are a dead give-a-way for the Oxy addict. Tara probably takes one of these, but not because a Dr. gave it to her. She no doubt takes far more than prescription dose and if it continues, she will lose her Methadone privileges.

ETA--Wouldn't a mother of a missing child be very very very anxious ALL THE TIME????A patient in a Methadone clinic is not even allowed to see another doctor without having him contact the clinic to see what is allowed. It's part of their contract. If she breaks that contract and gets kicks out, she's in big trouble, and will finally have to de-tox. She should be in a in-house facility doing that right now. Getting clean and in recovery on hopes of keeping Daryn and hopefully Tori.

[4greatkids]

Yes, you are right. I realized after I posted that maybe she wasn't talking about anti-anxiety medication. My mistake.

[doctor_J]

A pharmacy 4 blocks from my home was raided by the FBI, DEA, and local LE 2 weeks ago. Turned out the pharmacist, mother of a 6 and 3 yr. old, the technician, a grandmother of 7, and the clerk, mother of an infant. were illegaly diverting over 1/4 million Oxycontin tablets to the street. They were addicts. Now, with mandatory sentencing, their lives are practically over outside of federal prison.

[Hope4Tori]

I wish we would get an update from the OPP. Six weeks and still no answers.

The family drama is interesting but I'd like to know what the police are doing. Are they any closer to finding out what may have happened? Do they still believe she's in Woodstock? Any new clues?

Hey n/t!:wub: I'm with you on that point as are many if not all of us! For me, I think I've come to the point of not expecting to hear anything useful from the police until there is an arrest and/or Tori has been located. I may be wrong, but from the lack of communication so far by LE to the public, that's what I have come to accept. It's very frustrating to follow Tori's case and not have any new or pertinent information from OPP. The way the parents have handled things so far, we are getting new information about their pasts and personalities, but there is not much, if any discussion about the suspect, their theories, etc. At the end of the p/c on Friday one of the (LFP?) reporters was doing a summary report at the end with someone else, another man and I wondered whom he is, but I don't know - in any case the mystery-to-me man responding to the reporter gave the impression that the police knew the same info as the public and there are no new leads. That, if true, is very disturbing, but perhaps I misunderstood, or if that person is "in the know" (i.e LE family and/or press liaison?), I am more worried about the case and ultimately, Tori's chances of being rescued alive and well. I believe today is the 40 day mark - so incredibly sad!:sad:

I was/am very interested in TM's FWall comments, and from what I read, the "voice", the photo of she and Tori beside every post, I believe it was her, and because she has stated in the past that she does follow and respond to that particular sight, I think those comments are made by TM. When there have been imposters on that site, posing as TM, it is quite obvious because they are obviously trying to put her in a bad light, and though she may do that for herself by her own words, there is a detectable difference, IMO. TM, either reiterates what she has already said, and the way she has said things, and/or adds details that presumably only she would know, IMO.

In any case, TM's comments that I posted last night about RS's ex wife is very interesting information, if true, and if true that LE is aware of this person, I am glad because it made me think that there are probably a lot of additional characters that both sides of the family have provided to LE as potential suspects or perhaps having some involvement, which is encouraging. There is so much the public just does not know!

Last night, I was looking for Coldwater's post - warning - about FWall mentions and could not locate it. As I believe you had said before that you were going to e-mail your concerns about such a warning. Did you? If so, did you get a reply? If so, can you share?

IMO, considering that FWall is an unavoidable topic of dicussion and it is a legitimate element of this case since the family of the victiim had set it up and administers it and many of Tori's family members and friends' of the family, as well as locals, post comments there, and it is a public forum, I think we should be able to mention anything related to it. Do you agree or disagree. Either way, please help clarify what the deal is for my sake and others here, if you know.

Thanks so much n/t! Happy Victoria Day to you and everyone here - Canadian friends and all other friends!

Wishing for Tori's safe return home today!:wub:

[doctor_J]

Yes, you are right. I realized after I posted that maybe she wasn't talking about anti-anxiety medication. My mistake.

No, you were right the first time. She was talking about anti-anxiety drugs. But she should have kept her mouth shut in case the clinic reads the paper. She just can't resist trying to impress the public with her suffering and trying to minimize her drug taking. Typical addict, textbook. If their mouth is moving, they are lying.

[doctor_J]

Wouldn't this long holiday weekend have been the perfect time to launch an all out campaign to get the word out about Tori?? Lots of large gatherings for flyers to be handed out and roadsigns for travelers to see. Good time for media outlets to run recaps of the story and replay the video. What sports are being played? Big games would be a good place to put her pic on the scoreboard with tip line number.Remind people to LOOK for her. Keep her picture fresh. Announce the $50000 reward!

Is anyone doing anything to organize such a media blitz??

[n/t]

Wouldn't this long holiday weekend have been the perfect time to launch an all out campaign to get the word out about Tori?? Lots of large gatherings for flyers to be handed out and roadsigns for travelers to see. Good time for media outlets to run recaps of the story and replay the video. What sports are being played? Big games would be a good place to put her pic on the scoreboard with tip line number.Remind people to LOOK for her. Keep her picture fresh. Announce the $50000 reward!

Is anyone doing anything to organize such a media blitz??

No media blitz but apparently a few events are happening.

http://www.canadaeast.com/news/article/669731

You bring up a good point DJ. For the Canadians....I noticed CTV has stopped covering this case. Has anyone else noticed that? I haven't seen anything coming out from them. WHY?

CTV is National! Why aren't we seeing more coverage about Tori on our National news. The media coverage is all local.

[Hope4Tori]

No media blitz but apparently a few events are happening.

http://www.canadaeast.com/news/article/669731

You bring up a good point DJ. For the Canadians....I noticed CTV has stopped covering this case. Has anyone else noticed that? I haven't seen anything coming out from them. WHY?

CTV is National! Why aren't we seeing more coverage about Tori on our National news. The media coverage is all local.

Hi again n/t - and everyone here - and a special welcome to the board 4greatkids :loveeyes:(me too!) and Jester!:loveeyes:

The coverage has dramatically diminished - no CP24 updates that I catch - no mention on CTV, Global or CBC - it's all local - thank goodness for LFP and Woodstock Sentinel Review and other local reports, otherwise we would get no information about Tori and her face and her story would be completely absent in the media, IMO.

PS - I posted your events link.

Tori is STILL missing and needs to be rescued now!:wub:

[doctor_J]

No media blitz but apparently a few events are happening.

http://www.canadaeast.com/news/article/669731

You bring up a good point DJ. For the Canadians....I noticed CTV has stopped covering this case. Has anyone else noticed that? I haven't seen anything coming out from them. WHY?

CTV is National! Why aren't we seeing more coverage about Tori on our National news. The media coverage is all local.

I know ya'll think I'm a pessimist but if CTV has stopped coverage, could it be because OPP has tipped them off, off the record that they know what happened and there's no live child to search for.?? Well that wouldn't jive with the reward.

Does anyone know if the reward is only for a live Tori? or for info leading to the arrest and conviction??

[Orleaner12]

I know ya'll think I'm a pessimist but if CTV has stopped coverage, could it be because OPP has tipped them off, off the record that they know what happened and there's no live child to search for.?? Well that wouldn't jive with the reward.

Does anyone know if the reward is only for a live Tori? or for info leading to the arrest and conviction??



Isn't the reward for INFO in finding Tori...

[doctor_J]

It also seems strange that media on this case has never left Canada. N. Hollaway, Casey Anthony, Maddie McCann, others I can't think of right now all went international. When they're this bizarre, they usually go international. Seem it should have at least hit the US but I've seen nothing, except online, but you have to be looking for it to find it there.

[Hope4Tori]

I know ya'll think I'm a pessimist but if CTV has stopped coverage, could it be because OPP has tipped them off, off the record that they know what happened and there's no live child to search for.?? Well that wouldn't jive with the reward.

Does anyone know if the reward is only for a live Tori? or for info leading to the arrest and conviction??

Hey Doctor J - good morning - again thank you for your insights about the drugs and how they impact the user/abuser!! :thumbsup:

I don't know about LE tipping off anybody - especially a media outlet - because I don't think they would ever compromise the integrity of their case by risking that any such news might be leaked, JMO. If it were up to me I would not trust the media to keep it quiet - the media is made up of humans after all! And in any case Tori and her captor(s) needs to be found no matter what so the story should be getting coverage.

I don't suspect we will hear from the national media unless and until there is breaking news - i.e. a suspect is named and/or an arrest is made and/or if Tori's whereabouts are discovered and she is found. The odds are not in Tori's favour, IMO, but I will continue to hope for her sake that luck is one her side, just as we are!

I have no idea about the reward whether it is for the safe return of Tori or otherwise, but I hope it would be for either circumstance, because truly, IMO, the case needs to be solved and Tori must be found and returned to her loved ones no matter what the circumstances of her condition.

Praying for Tori's rescue today and may she be found alive and well!:wub:

[Orleaner12]

It also seems strange that media on this case has never left Canada. N. Hollaway, Casey Anthony, Maddie McCann, others I can't think of right now all went international. When they're this bizarre, they usually go international. Seem it should have at least hit the US but I've seen nothing, except online, but you have to be looking for it to find it there.



no that's not surprising at all Dr. J....even the ones you mentioned above have only received a passing mention in the news...the reason we know so much about others is because most watch CNN and read international papers online... I spend time in winter down south and I have never seen any mention of Canada on TV or papers....I can't even find out the weather conditions etc. the only way this "home grown abduction" would hit your news if somehow there was a US connection...... what happens in Canada stays in Canada unless it is something sensational....get my drift :wink: this is not sensational by any means...it is a filler in most national papers if it is even mentioned...sad but true.......

[doctor_J]

It's amazing how little we Americans know about anything in Canada. I'm embarrassed to say I had to google Victoria Day and found out to my amazement that Elizabeth is Queen of Canada!

It's true, Americans think the world revolves around us. :blushing:

[north-eh]

Thank you doctor_J, Hope4Tori and all of you wonderful posters for being so thought provoking and explaining your thoughts so well in this case, I really really appreciate it.

It truly is a pleasure coming here after all of this time and still be able to say IMO anyway, this is best board in town. :thumbsup:

Victoria sweetie, where are you?
N

[Lovethechild]

Hi all! I sure hope we get some good news regarding Tori today!! Can't wait to see the PC ('s) today. Wonder what RC will say about Tara??

[Lovethechild]

It's true, Americans think the world revolves around us. :blushing:


:laugh: I always thought the Canadian's hated us here.:huh:

[doctor_J]

All you good people hold down the fort while I'm gone today. When I check back in I hope to hear all my theories were wrong and Tori is back home safe and sound.

If I quote H4T maybe It well be contagious "My drug of choice is hope"---H4T

[north-eh]

It's amazing how little we Americans know about anything in Canada. I'm embarrassed to say I had to google Victoria Day and found out to my amazement that Elizabeth is Queen of Canada!

It's true, Americans think the world revolves around us. :blushing:

Hi doc, yes it is Queen Victoria's Birthday. We are under a monarchy, some like it some don't, it's an age old debate. Some feel Queen Elizabeth is a figurehead only and serves no real purpose now adays, but we are rich in history and I'm proud to be a Canadian from the cold north. LOL!
We still see the odd tourist drive through with snow skiis on the roof, I know I guess some still believe we have winter here 12 months a year.
Here is southern Ontario we have mainly 2 seasons, hot and humid and very very cold, hardly anything in between.

N

[Hope4Tori]

This is what I've found so far.
http://www.jimsaunders.info/blog/?tag=tori-stafford


Don't know who Tera and Randy are, tho. Guess this blogger isn't too familiar with the case. Ah well, anything to get Tori's name out there!!
Spelling doesn't count when a child is missing.:rose:

Hey Lizziegirl! Happy Victoria Day to you! Thanks so much for your post - I copied your link for you to the links page (trying to build on positive karma!)!:shrug:

Maybe the blogger is a simply a poor speller, and as you suggest - who cares! Perhaps Tera was Tara?? Maybe the Stafford reference was R Millen?? - if so, could it be RS's sister, same first name as blogger posted beginning with an R with an i instead of a y at the end?. Or maybe these people are new public additions to the long, long list of family and friends??

I'm getting tired of the need to be perfect when discussing the case in terms of protecting one's own ability to post without fear of repercussions. IMO, the world is too caught up in being politically and legally correct that it is near impossible to express one's own opinion with candour for fear that one's opinion may be misinterpreted and used to silence any semblance of truth. It's not enough to have only good intentions, everyone expects one to have a link to support it, IMO.

But, I am leading you away from the point of all this, and you are right Lizziegirl, the blogger and others like us are keeping Tori's name and her predicament out there which is necessary if she is ever to be found!

May Tori be rescued and found alive and well now!:wub:

[Gugug]

Hey n/t!:wub: I'm with you on that point as are many if not all of us! For me, I think I've come to the point of not expecting to hear anything useful from the police until there is an arrest and/or Tori has been located. I may be wrong, but from the lack of communication so far by LE to the public, that's what I have come to accept. It's very frustrating to follow Tori's case and not have any new or pertinent information from OPP. The way the parents have handled things so far, we are getting new information about their pasts and personalities, but there is not much, if any discussion about the suspect, their theories, etc. At the end of the p/c on Friday one of the (LFP?) reporters was doing a summary report at the end with someone else, another man and I wondered whom he is, but I don't know - in any case the mystery-to-me man responding to the reporter gave the impression that the police knew the same info as the public and there are no new leads. That, if true, is very disturbing, but perhaps I misunderstood, or if that person is "in the know" (i.e LE family and/or press liaison?), I am more worried about the case and ultimately, Tori's chances of being rescued alive and well. I believe today is the 40 day mark - so incredibly sad!:sad:

I was/am very interested in TM's FWall comments, and from what I read, the "voice", the photo of she and Tori beside every post, I believe it was her, and because she has stated in the past that she does follow and respond to that particular sight, I think those comments are made by TM. When there have been imposters on that site, posing as TM, it is quite obvious because they are obviously trying to put her in a bad light, and though she may do that for herself by her own words, there is a detectable difference, IMO. TM, either reiterates what she has already said, and the way she has said things, and/or adds details that presumably only she would know, IMO.

In any case, TM's comments that I posted last night about RS's ex wife is very interesting information, if true, and if true that LE is aware of this person, I am glad because it made me think that there are probably a lot of additional characters that both sides of the family have provided to LE as potential suspects or perhaps having some involvement, which is encouraging. There is so much the public just does not know!

Last night, I was looking for Coldwater's post - warning - about FWall mentions and could not locate it. As I believe you had said before that you were going to e-mail your concerns about such a warning. Did you? If so, did you get a reply? If so, can you share?

IMO, considering that FWall is an unavoidable topic of dicussion and it is a legitimate element of this case since the family of the victiim had set it up and administers it and many of Tori's family members and friends' of the family, as well as locals, post comments there, and it is a public forum, I think we should be able to mention anything related to it. Do you agree or disagree. Either way, please help clarify what the deal is for my sake and others here, if you know.

Thanks so much n/t! Happy Victoria Day to you and everyone here - Canadian friends and all other friends!

Wishing for Tori's safe return home today!:wub:

...one of the papers reported that RS' ex-wife was among the people who took a lie detector test. Then nothing was mentioned about her again. This made me want to know if she looked anything like the woman in the video, and later, when the composite sketch was released, if she looked like that.

Some time ago, I asked if police could take a swirl in Thailand and turn it into a man's face, why that couldn't be done with a grainy video. My question is the source of that sketch: the video, or the eyewitness report.

You can be sure that anyone the parents are related to and have associated with have been under investigation.

My own personal experience: I was in a restaurant where a shooting occurred and one person was killed. I was never called to court to testify. Then, many years later, another person was murdered in the same restaurant, which had changed names and owners many times. The police tracked me down and questioned me. I had never returned, but the case had gone cold and they were leaving no stone unturned.
Etc.

[Lorelei]

Hi all! I sure hope we get some good news regarding Tori today!! Can't wait to see the PC ('s) today. Wonder what RC will say about Tara??

I very much doubt there will be a conference today since it is Victoria Day and a holiday. I seem to remember TM saying there will be one on Tuesday. And... I cannot reach the lfp page. Can anyone else? I have an old link, can someone maybe post the link so I can try a different route.

[Gugug]

Hey Doctor J - good morning - again thank you for your insights about the drugs and how they impact the user/abuser!! :thumbsup:

I don't know about LE tipping off anybody - especially a media outlet - because I don't think they would ever compromise the integrity of their case by risking that any such news might be leaked, JMO. If it were up to me I would not trust the media to keep it quiet - the media is made up of humans after all! And in any case Tori and her captor(s) needs to be found no matter what so the story should be getting coverage.

I don't suspect we will hear from the national media unless and until there is breaking news - i.e. a suspect is named and/or an arrest is made and/or if Tori's whereabouts are discovered and she is found. The odds are not in Tori's favour, IMO, but I will continue to hope for her sake that luck is one her side, just as we are!

I have no idea about the reward whether it is for the safe return of Tori or otherwise, but I hope it would be for either circumstance, because truly, IMO, the case needs to be solved and Tori must be found and returned to her loved ones no matter what the circumstances of her condition.

Praying for Tori's rescue today and may she be found alive and well!:wub:

They would not tip off a reporter. They could, however, leak information that they want to be leaked. In other words, they might leak some information that would be used as part of investigative strategy. Perhaps they want to see how someone might react to it, someone under surveillance, for example.

Good reporters always question the reason for such leaks, and sometimes they won't report such things, if they have a reason to believe they shouldn't.

[Lorelei]

This is a little snippet from the FB questions and answers:

at 12:08am
No Jessie...Tori was very healthy


*was*?

[Hope4Tori]

...one of the papers reported that RS' ex-wife was among the people who took a lie detector test. Then nothing was mentioned about her again. This made me want to know if she looked anything like the woman in the video, and later, when the composite sketch was released, if she looked like that.

Some time ago, I asked if police could take a swirl in Thailand and turn it into a man's face, why that couldn't be done with a grainy video. My question is the source of that sketch: the video, or the eyewitness report.

You can be sure that anyone the parents are related to and have associated with have been under investigation.

My own personal experience: I was in a restaurant where a shooting occurred and one person was killed. I was never called to court to testify. Then, many years later, another person was murdered in the same restaurant, which had changed names and owners many times. The police tracked me down and questioned me. I had never returned, but the case had gone cold and they were leaving no stone unturned.
Etc.

Hey Gugug - Happy Victoria Day and glad to see you here again today!:thumbsup: Although, I will miss the people I feel I have come to know on this board once Tori is found, I live for the day when we don't have to sign on to check news and brainstorm about where she is and how she is because she will have been found! Then of course, I'm sure we will still follow the court case hoping she will also find justice!

In any case, you certainly have had more than your fair share of dramatic events and I hope your life these days is, as I suspect from your writings, much more uneventful - in a good way, I mean - as I wouldn't wish you the other extreme of total boredom!:tonguewag:

ITA, there are many others that we have not had confirmed by LE as far as being investigated. I am glad though that since Friday's p/c there is a reasonable and growing interest in RS and his ties to family and friends and his past and current activities that may or may not be relevant, but that interest, in fairness to TM, IMO, should exist and all the parties should receive the same kind of scrutiny. IMO, there should be fair balance in the discussion of all those related to Tori, whether closely or merely by some random association, as IMO, until ruled otherwise, all are potentially suspcious persons.

I have felt all along, as I stated in a at-the-time far-fetched theory in a previous thread, that the suspect could well be someone known to RS and whose motive may have been to hurt TM, and as I stated, if that theory insofar as the motive proves to be true, the person's(s') objective has clearly been met, IMO, and IMO, TM's own actions and attitude has unfortunately and inadvertently helped to invigorate the abductor's malevolent purpose, if my theory is proven to be true, IMO.

I have another theory, and this one is based less on feeling, and more on the facts as we know them, and my own experience as a mother, and as a person whose own past includes having a mother whose behaviours were difficult for the child I once was to comprehend. IMO, I think that LW's absence is for a valid reason that is not being publically revealed and discussed, to my knowledge. The lack of information as to details leads me to fill in the blanks, rightly or wrongly, to draw my own conclusions of why there is stress and distance between TM and LW. IMO, the fact that LW and TM in this circumstance are not apparently united and supportive of one another, insofar as one would naturally expect to see of a mother daughter relationship, especially during such a difficut time, leads me to consider LW a suspect in the sense that she is more than likely, IMO, to have and have had a bird's eye view of what Tori's life challenges were and LW could have a strong motive to remove Tori and place her in better circumstances for her own protection, IMO. I do wonder if LW had ever in the past tried to go this route by legal means and perhaps if she had I wonder if her efforts were thwarted? Even though the LW connection is, IMO, a possible theory, I am more inclined in the moment to add more weight to the RS connection theory as stated above.

I hope there is some break in the case today! I'm off to buy smokes now but I'll be back! Oh and thank you for your restraint as you have refrained from giving me a lecture about my addiction - it's true it is an addiction - we all make excuses to for our shortcomings to some degree Gugug and I'm no different. In the scheme of things I'm doing my best and I'm definitely not near perfect - perfection and its pursuit is another dangerous addiction IMO, but that discussion is for another time and place . . .

Thanks for all of your informative and heartfelt posts - see you soon!

Wishing for a miracle for Tori today!:wub:

[astrid]

LE needs to follow family members that have $$$. I had a cousin that worked at Tim Hortons and she had a daughter taken away from her for having a minimum wage job. A wealthy uncle and his wife now have custody of her. I think this may be what is happening in Tori's case.

[north-eh]

LE needs to follow family members that have $$$. I had a cousin that worked at Tim Hortons and she had a daughter taken away from her for having a minimum wage job. A wealthy uncle and his wife now have custody of her. I think this may be what is happening in Tori's case.

Hi astrid and welcome. I was under the impression it was very difficult for even CAS (children's aid services)to take children away from their parents and even if they were it was only a matter of time before they were returned, providing that parent cleaned up his/her act.
I have no personal knowledge of this but that's what I was told.
Yes, can you elaborate for us please?
N

[Lorelei]

LE needs to follow family members that have $$$. I had a cousin that worked at Tim Hortons and she had a daughter taken away from her for having a minimum wage job. A wealthy uncle and his wife now have custody of her. I think this may be what is happening in Tori's case.

I've heard of Ontario Works making people on welfare move if their rent is above what they get on assistance, but I must say I've never heard of anyone having their child removed because they were only making minimum wage. There must more to this story?

And if this were happening in Tori's case, wouldn't the police already know that. I'm sure no one would be hiding it? Social Services would no doubt cooperate with LE. No government agency would hide a child from LE, even if Tori was placed into a protective shelter, the police would need to know that.

[Hope4Tori]

This is a little snippet from the FB questions and answers:

at 12:08am
No Jessie...Tori was very healthy


*was*?

Hey Lorelei! :beer:Thanks for posting this - the use of tense does warrant analyses I suppose, but IMO, a lot of people in the course of natural conversation and in writing often use tense incorrectly and mix its use sometimes in the same conversation or post.

As a stand alone statement, I think the tense being past about Tori "was" healthy is natural in the sense that, the last time TM saw Tori was almost six weeks ago and I don't think that statement necessarily indicates that she knows that Tori is passed or thinks of her as passed - IMO, she is just saying in essence, she was healthy - truly, IMO, it could be just as curious, in fact, more curious had she responded she "is" healthy because that could imply TM has present knowledge of Tori, which if she is innocent of any connection to Tori's abduction, she could not know.

IMO, studying the usage of tense, perhaps by LE, could be useful, but for the most part, IMO, the misuse of tense doesn't raise many red flags for me. In the same vein, as I have posted her before, I am not disturbed by TM's or anyone else's description of the abductor as "they" or "them" even though there is only one suspect so far identified. It is common is speech to refer to an unknown person as "they" or "them", IMO, and I know I do it all the time.

As well, without the question TM is responding to, we cannot be certain of her response because it is taken out of context. Perhaps the questioner asked: When you last saw Tori was she healthy? Then TM's response would be totally appropriate. If the questioner asked TM: Is Tori a healthy child? Then one could argue that her response could be troubling, but just as easily it could be benign. Also when analysing someone's writing, emphasis is sometimes hard to determine i.e. If TM had spoken her answer rather than had put it in writing, and she perhaps emphasized the word "was" - that as well could be troubling, or it could be viewed as another of her sarcastic remarks as in: duh - she was healthy the last time I saw her but how would I know you dumb jerk? Of course, I am being facetious in that example, but I trust you get my point. (smile)

My own interpretation of the remark, since TM begins her response to the person commenting (and perhaps not questioning) "No Jessie . . Tori was very healthy", the person may have commented that he/she had heard or thought there was information suggesting that Tori was not (or is not?) healthy, IMO. I am terrible myself about using improper tense, and often use past when I should use the active voice by using present tense, as demonstrated in my last sentence - it seems to be my natural inclination to use past tense. :w00t:

Only time will tell if there is anything untoward about TM's statement, as hindsight will afford us all 20/20 vision and shine light and context on much more information once Tori's mystery is finally solved, IMO.

May today be the day Tori is rescued and returned safely home by LE!:wub:

[Lorelei]

Hey Lorelei! :beer:Thanks for posting this - the use of tense does warrant analyses I suppose, but IMO, a lot of people in the course of natural conversation and in writing often use tense incorrectly and mix its use sometimes in the same conversation or post.


You're probably right :)

[Hope4Tori]

LE needs to follow family members that have $$$. I had a cousin that worked at Tim Hortons and she had a daughter taken away from her for having a minimum wage job. A wealthy uncle and his wife now have custody of her. I think this may be what is happening in Tori's case.

Hey Astrid! :seeya: Welcome to our board!

Very interesting observation, but IMO, if there were any wealthy relations of Tori's that avenue would have been expoited by someone from either family by now with respect to raising funds for a reward and/or living expenses while Tori is absent.

In fairness, I believe that there have been family members that have together pledged $10,000.00 towards to reward for information that could lead Tori's return, in addition to LE's $50,000.00 for a total of $60,000.00.

But you know what, we certainly don't know all the facts about the case, and your idea could well be right in the end - who knows??

Keep the ideas comin' :thumbsup:

Wishing and hoping for a miracle for Tori right now!:wub:

[TigerLily]

:laugh: I always thought the Canadian's hated us here.:huh:

I'm sorry you got that impression, Lovethechild. Canadians in general are often in opposition to US government policies, but it doesn't extend to individual American citizens. I have never met an American I didn't like. I used to work for an American-owned company, and a good many of their US employees came here to work in our office for a few months. All of them were very friendly and outgoing people, IMO moreso than most Canadians. We tend to be a little bit standoffish, like the British. Maybe that's why you thought we didn't like Americans.