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Wouldn't it be great if Victoria was found Victoria Day weekend! :rose:
tarabull1
05-13-2009, 10:08 AM
Continue here......
Wouldn't it be great if Victoria was found Victoria Day weekend! :rose:
NOW that would be a real twist of fate!!! And stranger things HAVE happened!!!!
Sounds like the perfect time to me, and yet if she was found today it's still not soon enough!!!
:rose:
FWIW....I also believe the limo ride was set up by LE. I'm just very surprised nobody came forward confirming they saw the limo but who knows what LE has up their sleeve.
Someone mentioned Penny Boudreau....I don't recall what LE did in that case. Was it similar? I thought she and BF fought, she ended up in the hospital from what some believed was an overdose....what did I miss?
Tori coming home this weekend would be odd.
If she does come home this weekend, IMO, I'd say this whole thing was planned.
tarabull1
05-13-2009, 10:19 AM
FWIW....I also believe the limo ride was set up by LE. I'm just very surprised nobody came forward confirming they saw the limo but who knows what LE has up their sleeve.
Someone mentioned Penny Boudreau....I don't recall what LE did in that case. Was it similar? I thought she and BF fought, she ended up in the hospital from what some believed was an overdose....what did I miss?
Statement of facts in Karissa Boudreau murder
http://www.thestar.com/Article/580101
tarabull1
05-13-2009, 10:24 AM
Tori coming home this weekend would be odd.
If she does come home this weekend, IMO, I'd say this whole thing was planned.
M_J
Do you mean it would appear the whole thing was planned if she was to be found ALIVE on Victoria Day Weekend???
cuz this raises another question....
Statement of facts in Karissa Boudreau murder
http://www.thestar.com/Article/580101
OMG! This is the first time I read the graphic details. :crying:
virgogal
05-13-2009, 10:38 AM
Statement of facts in Karissa Boudreau murder
http://www.thestar.com/Article/580101
That story made me feel ill! It's difficult to imagine anyone, let alone a child's own parent exihibiting such callous cruelty!
north-eh
05-13-2009, 10:45 AM
FWIW....I also believe the limo ride was set up by LE. I'm just very surprised nobody came forward confirming they saw the limo but who knows what LE has up their sleeve.
Someone mentioned Penny Boudreau....I don't recall what LE did in that case. Was it similar? I thought she and BF fought, she ended up in the hospital from what some believed was an overdose....what did I miss?
Yes the RCMP pulled off a masterful plan to get Penny Boudreau. Mr. Big was his name and he was head of a big time mafia syndicate. LE were suspecting her all along as did the public but we had no idea what they were doing behind the scenes.
Mr. Big was orchestrated and the sting was on. They appraoched Penny Boudreau saying they knew of her plight and could help make it all go away if she would tell them what happened the night Karissa went missing and for her to reinact what happened. They said in order for them to help her they needed to know first that she had committed this and that she was to trust them that they would help her get away with whatever she did to her daughter.
She was desperate to get away with it and even told them why she did it. She said she loved her BF so much and he gave her an utimatum, either him or Karissa. He of course later said he never meant for Penny to murder her daughter he meant to send her back to her dad or step father to raise. Penny confessed the whole thing while the RCMP had themselves wired for sound.
She even repeated Karissa's last dying words. " mom don't." while she single handedly choked the life out of her daughter with some string that she had with her. She then drove the lifeless body(which was on the floor in the passenger seat BTW) thru Tim Horton's drive-thru to get a coffee where she then put the string and threw it away.
She then drove the body to a small parking lot beside the La Have River and pulled the body out of the car and dumped it down the snow bank but first pulling her pants down to make it look like she had been assulted first. I'm sorry this case is so fresh in my memory as I am from a small town 30 miles from there and know the people so well.
Anyway she too gave a tearful plea for Karissa's return all the while she was dead and people were out looking for her. The family had been kept abreast of these developments but of course couldn't say anything to anyone let alone publicy.
Once the RCMP had this all in place they arrested her and threw her in jail. We thought we would have a trial on our hands but once her attorney found out about Mr. Big and the sting they coped a plea and she is now serving her 20 years in our prison system, big deal I say!
She'll get out and live her life to the fullest as if nothing happend, this is what sickens us.
Life should mean life, NOT 20 years.
N
tarabull1
05-13-2009, 10:46 AM
http://www.eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2008/02/penny-boudreau.html
There is a audio recording of one of PB's tearful public plea's available at the above link. Listen and keep in mind she was the offender the whole time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
north-eh
05-13-2009, 10:51 AM
http://www.eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2008/02/penny-boudreau.html
There is a audio recording of one of PB's tearful public plea's available at the above link. Listen and keep in mind she was the offender the whole time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She sure was! I find it hard still to talk about this case let alone post about it.
I can't watch it anymore thank you tarabull1, but go ahead and check this evil one out, she sure is one sly character.
Where is Victoria and what happened to her?
N
I know. 20 years! What a freakin joke! Poor Karissa.
I am so worried about Tori. I just pray she didn't meet a similar fate. :sad:
tarabull1
05-13-2009, 10:53 AM
http://www.eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2008/02/penny-boudreau.html
There is a audio recording of one of PB's tearful public plea's available at the above link. Listen and keep in mind she was the offender the whole time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see that people have asked the blogger at eyesforlies to address Tori's disappearance - here are the bloggers responses thus far...stay tuned
http://eyesforlies.uservoice.com/pages/14727-topic-suggestions/suggestions/161778-missing-child-victoria-stafford
http://eyesforlies.uservoice.com/pages/14727-topic-suggestions/suggestions/185070-victoria-stafford
I see that people have asked the blogger at eyesforlies to address Tori's disappearance - here are the bloggers responses thus far...stay tuned
http://eyesforlies.uservoice.com/pages/14727-topic-suggestions/suggestions/161778-missing-child-victoria-stafford
http://eyesforlies.uservoice.com/pages/14727-topic-suggestions/suggestions/185070-victoria-stafford
Yes, many of us submitted requests and were quite disappointed in her reply . I think what would be worthy for her is if a reporter asks Tara if she had anything to do with Tori's disappearance.
tarabull1
05-13-2009, 11:11 AM
Yes, many of us submitted requests and were quite disappointed in her reply . I think what would be worthy for her is if a reporter asks Tara if she had anything to do with Tori's disappearance.
Sorry, I'm a late arriver in the case. This has all likely been discussed already. I apologize.
Hoping the blogger is keeping a close eye on Tara and maybe will soon post about the infamous limo ride in particular.
Maybe the blogger does better reading some people in hindsight rather than REAL time. :confused:
Maybe there are no lies to detect. :huh:
Gugug
05-13-2009, 11:16 AM
http://www.eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2008/02/penny-boudreau.html
There is a audio recording of one of PB's tearful public plea's available at the above link. Listen and keep in mind she was the offender the whole time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Michael White of Edmonton made a sobbing -- wiping tears that I did not see -- appeal on TV for his missing pregnant wife, urging whoever had her to let her go. The first thing that came to my mind when I saw it was the non-tearful confession I wrote about yesterday. The person in that case sobbed and heaved, but nary a tear was spilled. In fact, the story was a sham meant to get sympathy from the audience. When it didn't, the show was over instantly. I called a friend to say, "That reminds me of my child's grandmother."
Now, in Michael White's case, he appealed the verdict, claiming it was manslaughter, not murder. The appeals judges disagreed, due to White's post-offence behavior. He had appealed to TV cameras for the safe return of his wife, when he had murdered her himself. This was seen as concealment, and therefore not manslaughter.
http://www.lastlinkontheleft.com/e2005white.html
White did some other things that were taken into account too, like leading a search party which found evidence (surprise!), staging a crime scene with his wife's vehicle, which was recorded on a security camera, and retrieving some bloody clothes from a field and setting them out with his garbage. At the time of the trial, White tried to prevent this incident from being entered as evidence. He said the garbage was his property, so the police should have gotten a search warrant. Too bad for him -- the police waited until the garbage man picked it up, at which point it became public property. Clever.
At one point during the court process, I believe when victim impact statements from his wife's family were being read, White made the outrageous claim that the murder had been hard on him, too, because he'd lost his wife. White has a young daughter who went to live with her grandparents.
Gugug
05-13-2009, 11:31 AM
I'm doing this as a separate post so it won't get lost.
If you read the Michael White story, you will note that various times were reported by the police for finding Lianna White's vehicle. The police later explained that this was done as part of their investigative strategy: they wanted to see what Michael White would do.
Does that sound familiar?
Gugug
05-13-2009, 11:38 AM
Now that you've digested that, here's another important thing about the Michael White case. When Lianna went missing, the police insisted that this was not a criminal investigation.
Bear in mind that they'd already found her vehicle, which was reported to them soon after Michael White placed it in a field.
Early on, they knew what this case was, but they insisted to the media that it was non-criminal. Investigative strategy again: they wanted to see what Michael White would do.
Sound familiar?
virgogal
05-13-2009, 11:40 AM
Gugug...What did he do? How did that work?
Orleaner12
05-13-2009, 11:44 AM
I'm not even convinced that the writing on the heart, held up by Tara yesterday, is the writing of Tori...about the lawyer and wanting to sue for what is written about her on FB......I would think her mind should be on other priorities at this time..namely Tori and her return... I also think that the reason the reporters are not asking her outright if she had anything to do with Tori missing is because they and their newspapers could be sued so they are treading carefully and wording their questions carefully but the suggestion is still being put out there with hopes she does "trip up"...which explains why they continue to hold those daily PC's...IMO
I don't know if anyone noticed it but yesterday, PJ the moderator from LFP posted something about an exclusive interview with Rodney and it was still being put together. Did anyone else see that post? I'm wondering if this is something they're planning on doing or if it was already done and just finalizing it before releasing it?
justmy2cents
05-13-2009, 12:03 PM
pj the moderator said this morning that the interview with rodney yesterday was part of a bigger article to be published at a later date
pj the moderator said this morning that the interview with rodney yesterday was part of a bigger article to be published at a later date
What interview with Rodney yesterday? Did he do a separate interview? TIA!
north-eh
05-13-2009, 12:11 PM
I don't know if anyone noticed it but yesterday, PJ the moderator from LFP posted something about an exclusive interview with Rodney and it was still being put together. Did anyone else see that post? I'm wondering if this is something they're planning on doing or if it was already done and just finalizing it before releasing it?
Yes I did and I've been wondering the same thing. I've been trying to find out myself but nothing yet.
I wonder why it has not being shown already? I was hoping to see it yesterday.
N
Gugug
05-13-2009, 12:12 PM
Gugug...What did he do? How did that work?
One of the biggest things he did was to talk to the media a lot. As that article said, he spoke to the cameras, telling the cameras his wife to "stay where you are, I will find you." Then, apparently frustrated by the lack of action on the part of the police (this is the investigative strategy in action), he led a search party. The party went outside the area the police had designated, and surprise! -- they found a body. Police then stalled about announcing the identity of the body to the public. It was, in fact, the missing Liana White. Michael White promised he would find her, and he did, although the article says White denies leading the search party and denies finding his wife's body. He also denied killing her, but he was found guilty of second-degree murder and a recent appeal was unanimously rejected by an appeals court panel, effectively barring him from taking the case to the Supreme Court.
One thing I assume about the appearance of the police not considering this a criminal matter (they did, but White didn't know it), was that Michael White got careless. He went to a field to retrieve a bag of bloody clothes and other evidence, then set it out with the garbage. He must not have realized they were watching him, because, after all, they said this was not a criminal matter. They appeared to the public to be doing not too much at all. How incorrect that assumption was.
One thing we should note: what about search parties for Tori? Think carefully about who was involved, and how much time they spent searching. What was their reaction during the searches? Do any of them already have lawyers telling them what to do, even if we don't know? Would there be any reason to stand back from searches?
White's young daughter, who was three years old at the time of the murder, was reported in the media to have witnessed the murder, and told her grandmother what she saw. You can find accounts of that online. I will not post here. She apparently suffers from post-traumatic stress, including temper tantrums and other behavior problems. Very, very tragic for that little girl. It would be surprising if she did not have lifelong issues from this.
What interview with Rodney yesterday? Did he do a separate interview? TIA!
Quoting myself.
Nevermind. I now realize what 2 cents meant.
Rodney had an interview yesterday but it wasn't shown yet and they're still working on it.
Can't wait to hear what he has to say.
Gugug
05-13-2009, 12:17 PM
Tara, I am in tears after reading that. I don't know whether to thank you or thump you.
I was horrified (with myself) to realize that when I saw the name Karissa Boudreau, my first thought was "now which one was she again?" My God, has it gotten so bad that I can't remember which child was murdered? How many more must there have to be before we realize our justice system is a joke?
First degree murder must mean at least LWOP, no exceptions, no pleas. I would prefer the death penalty for these animals, althougt I hate to use animals as examples, I know of no other species except humans that kill their own members for sport.
MOO
I see that the Conservatives have proposed a bill that would make any murder associated with organized crime (street gangs, etc.) an automatic first-degree murder charge, carrying a mandatory life sentence (25 years WOP). This has not yet been passed by parliament. For our American readers, there are no consecutive life sentences in Canada. Terms are concurrent. If two people are murdered in the same crime by the same person, the maximum sentence is 25 years WOP.
justmy2cents
05-13-2009, 12:18 PM
before the presser yesterday on the lfp website, pj was said at about 12:50 ish that the reporters were in ingersoll speaking with rodney, they were just finishing up and were on their way to woodstock. All of this was said in the chats before the live presser.
Gugug
05-13-2009, 12:22 PM
In yesterday's press conference, Tara McDonald said the siting of Tori in Alberta was actually one of her nieces. The reporter asked if Tara had two nieces. She answered, "Yes, three."
What's with that?
tarabull1
05-13-2009, 12:26 PM
I'm not even convinced that the writing on the heart, held up by Tara yesterday, is the writing of Tori...about the lawyer and wanting to sue for what is written about her on FB......I would think her mind should be on other priorities at this time..namely Tori and her return... I also think that the reason the reporters are not asking her outright if she had anything to do with Tori missing is because they and their newspapers could be sued so they are treading carefully and wording their questions carefully but the suggestion is still being put out there with hopes she does "trip up"...which explains why they continue to hold those daily PC's...IMO
OK, you know what really wigs me out (though I've been trying to block it out!!!) is that I THOUGHT the same thing - about the heart maybe NOT being made by Tori - which next made me think of the video taped jail visits where CASEY ANTHONY is spewing "the bible says we should love thy neighbour!" maybe not word for word how CA said it but I can look up her exact wording - just so freaking bizarre considering what CA has been charged with - REGARDLESS, I don't like where my mind takes me...:w00t:
I'm trying REALLY hard to not think the worst of Tara!
tarabull1
05-13-2009, 12:37 PM
In yesterday's press conference, Tara McDonald said the siting of Tori in Alberta was actually one of her nieces. The reporter asked if Tara had two nieces. She answered, "Yes, three."
What's with that?
If I understand your question, I think this (bolded) might have something to do with "that"...
[snipped...] She dismissed rumours of Tori being seen in Alberta, where the homes of her brother and her brother's mother were searched last week.
"Those are my nieces, those are his (her brother's) children that are being sighted. They are Victoria's cousins so maybe there is a little bit of similarity," McDonald said.
One of her nieces is eight and one is 10.
"Somebody could very well mistake my youngest niece for Victoria," she said. "I think it is just people grasping at straws."
Sorry if this doesn't answer your question. I'm already confused (is it obvious LOL) hope we get answers SOON!
Gugug
05-13-2009, 12:39 PM
Yes, many of us submitted requests and were quite disappointed in her reply . I think what would be worthy for her is if a reporter asks Tara if she had anything to do with Tori's disappearance.
I think that is because, as I wrote yesterday about a topic I'm not going to discuss any more, some abnormal behavior can be considered "normal" under extenuating circumstances, such as the loss of a child. This behavior could be a temporary reaction to a difficult situation. In other words, people do strange things under stress. Without the context of long-term patterns of behavior, it is hard to judge. Without a direct question that has only two real answers, it is hard to judge.
It is very odd, indeed, that reporters won't come out and ask certain people directly if they had anything to do with Tori's disappearance. You can't get sued for asking. All it takes is yes, no, or no comment for an answer. Two of those answers could get the respondent in a heap of trouble, of course. The more likely scenario is that they'll be cut off from attending PCs or interviewing family members if they do. They may have been warned. Would you like to be the only media outlet with no coverage of this story?
I always find that the eyes tell the truth. So many people wear sunglasses.
Gugug
05-13-2009, 12:44 PM
If I understand your question, I think this (bolded) might have something to do with "that"...
[snipped...] She dismissed rumours of Tori being seen in Alberta, where the homes of her brother and her brother's mother were searched last week.
"Those are my nieces, those are his (her brother's) children that are being sighted. They are Victoria's cousins so maybe there is a little bit of similarity," McDonald said.
One of her nieces is eight and one is 10.
"Somebody could very well mistake my youngest niece for Victoria," she said. "I think it is just people grasping at straws."
Sorry if this doesn't answer your question. I'm already confused (is it obvious LOL) hope we get answers SOON!
Am I a linguistic stickler? (My typing errors would tell you no :smile:)
I would have said, "No, three." Why did she agree with a wrong question? That's what I question. It's like saying, "Yes, that's wrong," instead of, "No, that's wrong."
The correct usage would be, "Yes, that's right," or "No, that's wrong," not "Yes, that's wrong."
Gugug
05-13-2009, 12:51 PM
That's a start, but let's make a life sentence a LIFE sentence - you die in prison. And I have always disagreed with "no consecutive life sentences". So if you're going down for one, why not take more down with them?" The downside of that logic is no murderer expects to be caught imo.
Dangerous Offender status offers some amount of protection to society from the worst of the worst. It provides exceptions to the general rules of sentencing.
Gugug
05-13-2009, 12:53 PM
OK, you know what really wigs me out (though I've been trying to block it out!!!) is that I THOUGHT the same thing - about the heart maybe NOT being made by Tori - which next made me think of the video taped jail visits where CASEY ANTHONY is spewing "the bible says we should love thy neighbour!" maybe not word for word how CA said it but I can look up her exact wording - just so freaking bizarre considering what CA has been charged with - REGARDLESS, I don't like where my mind takes me...:w00t:
I'm trying REALLY hard to not think the worst of Tara!
Please do read the article about Michael White, who had a preacher standing behind him.
virgogal
05-13-2009, 12:56 PM
One little detail I don't think anyone has touched upon yet...
Someone on here said that they made a 'friend request' to JG on Facebook and 'sure enough' he added them!
That means he has access to a computer doesn't it?
Tara says JG is 'here and bot going anywhere'...so then it would seem logical that Tara actually DOES have computer access!:confused:
Orleaner12
05-13-2009, 01:02 PM
not sure about others but I wear sunglasses especially if I go out without makeup (oh the vanity) :blushing:because it gives me a false sense of being hidden from view..silly I know but that's what I do...also I think the eyes are the windows of the soul and we think our actual true expressions are hidden especially with our "Jackie Kennedy" large sunnies........
Gugug
05-13-2009, 01:05 PM
One little detail I don't think anyone has touched upon yet...
Someone on here said that they made a 'friend request' to JG on Facebook and 'sure enough' he added them!
That means he has access to a computer doesn't it?
Tara says JG is 'here and bot going anywhere'...so then it would seem logical that Tara actually DOES have computer access!:confused:
Well, if she did have a computer, she could have looked up a certain psychic's website yesterday morning. The psychic posted that someone in the case would be wearing a heart necklace. Tara McDonald wore a heart necklace at yesterday's PC.
Comments were also made during the PC by viewers noting the wardrobe choice of black and white stripes. This is a fashion show now, not unlike Michelle Obama's expensive designer sneakers worn to a homeless shelter.
Orleaner12
05-13-2009, 01:08 PM
I thought those sneakers worn by Michelle were horrid even though they cost $500.00...but that is the only thing I can complain about regarding Michelle and her fashions.....:thumbsup: O/T I know but.........
Respectfully snipped..........
Eyes for lies says (http://eyesforlies.uservoice.com/pages/14727-topic-suggestions/suggestions/161778-missing-child-victoria-stafford)
"No hot spots for me at this time with regards to these videos, however, they don't say anything worthy of a lie. However their emotions are supportive that they are truly distressed, and worried."
I'm wondering if Eyes for lies would have said the opposite and actually did point a finger at Tara, then that commentary from Eyes for lies would have made it's way to the message board.
I'm not for or against Tara and I pretty much take the same stance as H4T. There's no direct evidence that points at anyone in Tori's family, but it seems people really want to pin Tara for Tori's disappearance, because othewise, why didn't that comment by Eyes for lies make it to this message board?
It made this message board. I posted the link as soon as I got a reply back from her.
On the mogulus site PJ the Moderator says:
"There will be no live-streaming from Woodstock today, fyi. Yesterday's press conference is available in the on demand section of this channel."
Thanks. Did PJ say there was no conference or just not live streaming but will show it later? TIA
Gugug
05-13-2009, 01:34 PM
This has interesting information with links to the source, even if it is off the beaten track:
http://ts-si.org/soc-&-psych/3177-unexpected-ways-a-deceivers-face-betrays-true-emotions.html
I found it interesting in the Boudreau interview to watch just the eyes, or just the mouth, and even turn the sound off.
With that one, I saw it on the news at the time and also instantly thought of the performance I once had the displeasure to be in the audience for in my own life. There is a term for people like that.
I do agree that things are not as clear in this case. However, there is deception at some level, given all the conflicting and misleading information that has come out.
tarabull1
05-13-2009, 01:44 PM
Am I a linguistic stickler? (My typing errors would tell you no :smile:)
I would have said, "No, three." Why did she agree with a wrong question? That's what I question. It's like saying, "Yes, that's wrong," instead of, "No, that's wrong."
The correct usage would be, "Yes, that's right," or "No, that's wrong," not "Yes, that's wrong."
RIIIIIIIIIIGHT, as in correctamundo, as in I am catching your drift
I DO see what you are saying and NO (heaven's NO) you are not a linguistic stickler...
:wink:
Gugug
05-13-2009, 01:59 PM
A useful website:
http://people.ok.ubc.ca/stporter/Welcome.html
If I understand your question, I think this (bolded) might have something to do with "that"...
[snipped...] She dismissed rumours of Tori being seen in Alberta, where the homes of her brother and her brother's mother were searched last week.
"Those are my nieces, those are his (her brother's) children that are being sighted. They are Victoria's cousins so maybe there is a little bit of similarity," McDonald said.
One of her nieces is eight and one is 10.
"Somebody could very well mistake my youngest niece for Victoria," she said. "I think it is just people grasping at straws."
Sorry if this doesn't answer your question. I'm already confused (is it obvious LOL) hope we get answers SOON!
What confuses me is I thought this brother is her step brother so there's no blood relation. How could the nieces look like Tori? I suppose because they're blonde/blue eyed? :shrug:
Oh ok, thanks n/t
Sorry about that, I seriously didn't see it.
It looks like they won't be live streaming today at all.
hmmm so no conference? I wish PJ would've worded it that way instead of no live streaming which could mean they won't stream it live but the conference is still happening. KWIM?
I got the impression they have the same father but different mothers.
If that's the case then he should be her half brother and not step brother. :shrug:
I've read so much about this case n/t and watched the pcs it's getting hard to remember what and where and who.
I'm really sorry but I can't even remember if the brother was mentioned as being a half or step brother.
I just got the impression he was a half brother and when all that name change stuff went on in the newspapers, I gave up trying to follow that aspect of it.
Could it be a case of a reporter not doing their job and double checking/cross referencing anything?
LOL...I gave up on trying to figure out the family. I always thought he was her step brother because IIRC that's how Tara referred to him. Who knows.
I wish one of them was really Tori so at least we'd know she was alive but alas still no sign of her and no word from the police either. *sigh*
brooklinite
05-13-2009, 02:53 PM
If I understand your question, I think this (bolded) might have something to do with "that"...
[snipped...] She dismissed rumours of Tori being seen in Alberta, where the homes of her brother and her brother's mother were searched last week.
"Those are my nieces, those are his (her brother's) children that are being sighted. They are Victoria's cousins so maybe there is a little bit of similarity," McDonald said.
One of her nieces is eight and one is 10.
"Somebody could very well mistake my youngest niece for Victoria," she said. "I think it is just people grasping at straws."
Sorry if this doesn't answer your question. I'm already confused (is it obvious LOL) hope we get answers SOON!
I found this part of the PC strange because Tara seems to contradict herself regarding any similarities between Victoria and her nieces. At first she suggests that people are mistaking her cousins for Victoria, and states that there may be some similarities. Then she says there are no similarities. Finally, we're back to the fact that someone "could very well mistake" her youngest niece for Victoria. I'm probably reading waaaay too much into that, but in the absence of any developments, it just struck me as strange when I heard it. I don't know what to think anymore.
virgogal
05-13-2009, 03:03 PM
Not if she's going to a friend/relative's house. She could even be going to a library.
Not sure why people on here are requesting these things. It's obvious they're only doing it to be nosy and they're not genuine about it at all.
My bold....
Sorry Kinetic can you please clarify what you meant by this??
Gugug
05-13-2009, 03:08 PM
I found this part of the PC strange because Tara seems to contradict herself regarding any similarities between Victoria and her nieces. At first she suggests that people are mistaking her cousins for Victoria, and states that there may be some similarities. Then she says there are no similarities. Finally, we're back to the fact that someone "could very well mistake" her youngest niece for Victoria. I'm probably reading waaaay too much into that, but in the absence of any developments, it just struck me as strange when I heard it. I don't know what to think anymore.
And one is the same age as Tori. Are there two? Yes, three.
Gugug
05-13-2009, 03:13 PM
LOL...I gave up on trying to figure out the family. I always thought he was her step brother because IIRC that's how Tara referred to him. Who knows.
I wish one of them was really Tori so at least we'd know she was alive but alas still no sign of her and no word from the police either. *sigh*
Tara said that John Jacklin-Jacqlin-McDonald-Ferraz is the son of her father's first wife. That could mean that he is a step-brother, a half-brother, or not a brother at all. Are subsequent children of a married couple related after the marriage is terminated in divorce? Were they married? Are subsequent children of a common-law couple related after the relationship ends? What do you call a common-law step sibling after the relationship ends? Yada, yada.
Gugug
05-13-2009, 03:18 PM
I thought those sneakers worn by Michelle were horrid even though they cost $500.00...but that is the only thing I can complain about regarding Michelle and her fashions.....:thumbsup: O/T I know but.........
Fancy expensive shoes to a homeless shelter is one thing. Black and white stripes to a press conference about a missing child? Some inferences were made by people who noticed both. Oversights, I'm sure.
Tara said that John Jacklin-Jacqlin-McDonald-Ferraz is the son of her father's first wife. That could mean that he is a step-brother, a half-brother, or not a brother at all. Are subsequent children of a married couple related after the marriage is terminated in divorce? Were they married? Are subsequent children of a common-law couple related after the relationship ends? What do you call a common-law step sibling after the relationship ends? Yada, yada.
A half brother would mean Tara's father fathered this man and there's a blood relation. A step-brother = no blood relation.
I think step siblings seize to be steps when the relationship ends but I guess depending if the step siblings were close, they would still call each other step brother or step sister. :unsure:
JD1974
05-13-2009, 03:34 PM
Respectfully snipped..........
Eyes for lies says (http://eyesforlies.uservoice.com/pages/14727-topic-suggestions/suggestions/161778-missing-child-victoria-stafford)
"No hot spots for me at this time with regards to these videos, however, they don't say anything worthy of a lie. However their emotions are supportive that they are truly distressed, and worried."
I'm wondering if Eyes for lies would have said the opposite and actually did point a finger at Tara, then that commentary from Eyes for lies would have made it's way to the message board.
I'm not for or against Tara and I pretty much take the same stance as H4T. There's no direct evidence that points at anyone in Tori's family, but it seems people really want to pin Tara for Tori's disappearance, because othewise, why didn't that comment by Eyes for lies make it to this message board?
I read both comments, they did make the board...that's how I found them. The second one is a bit different than the one you quoted. I cannot remember what it did say though, the blogger wants someone to come right out and ask Tara if she had anything to do with Tori's disappearance...I am just going by memory though so I can't be 100% sure.
JD1974
05-13-2009, 03:37 PM
Am I a linguistic stickler? (My typing errors would tell you no :smile:)
I would have said, "No, three." Why did she agree with a wrong question? That's what I question. It's like saying, "Yes, that's wrong," instead of, "No, that's wrong."
The correct usage would be, "Yes, that's right," or "No, that's wrong," not "Yes, that's wrong."
It may be just me but I would be grasping at any straws if my child was missing. I just find so many of her answers odd....
I read both comments, they did make the board...that's how I found them. The second one is a bit different than the one you quoted. I cannot remember what it did say though, the blogger wants someone to come right out and ask Tara if she had anything to do with Tori's disappearance...I am just going by memory though so I can't be 100% sure.
Yes. That's correct. She asked if there were any interviews with Tara when a reporter asked if she had anything to do with Tori's disappearance.
Unfortunately, there haven't been any.
M_J
Do you mean it would appear the whole thing was planned if she was to be found ALIVE on Victoria Day Weekend???
cuz this raises another question....
Well, yes, thats why I was talking about her coming home. Hard for her to "come home" if shes already passed away?!
JD1974
05-13-2009, 03:49 PM
I know because n/t already cleared it up for me.
:thumbsup:
I know, I seen it after I posted of course lol I read something and post without going through all the posts first...:laugh:
virgogal
05-13-2009, 03:51 PM
[QUOTE=virgogal;13099051]
Last week someone from here complained that there was a lurker from FB coming here and now people from here are going onto FB?
What's the point really?
If and when Tori is found, then what? The person that requested the friend request will do what? Take him/herself off the list? Just seems like there's a lot of vultures wanting information when LE already told people if anything comes from FB not to believe it.
Now I have a favour to ask and by no means do I mean to offend. You say you're a psychologist virgogal so please educate people about personality disorders being a mental illness, and yes, there is a difference between mental illness and the insanity plea but somehow these pot shots keep getting brought up. So to set everyone straight, could you please use your professional expertise to demystify some of the myths/misconceptions people have about this particular mental illness instead of handing out updates about what's going on, on FB.
Well, Kinetic I'd be happy to when I get a few moments...I have a client in 12 mins, though.
However I think others on the board have already done a good job already.
I am not a lurker...but I read as much as I can on every site and I think I am as free to ask questions and post ideas as anyone else!
I can't see how my question or observation is any LESS relevant that anyone else's!
Let's face it...none of us have the corner on any 'inside' information...and I thought that the purpose of this board was to discuss the case?? Am I wrong in thinking this?
JD1974
05-13-2009, 03:55 PM
I have a question for anyone who remembers. I just read that LE are calling Tori's disappearance an "isolated incident" is that true? What does that mean for this case, does that mean they think someone from the family is involved? Honestly, how could they come out and say it is isolated if a stranger took her?
I have a question for anyone who remembers. I just read that LE are calling Tori's disappearance an "isolated incident" is that true? What does that mean for this case, does that mean they think someone from the family is involved? Honestly, how could they come out and say it is isolated if a stranger took her?
The fact that they haven't issued any warnings to the people of Woodstock to watch out for their children may answer your question as to where this investigation is headed.
Let's face it....they didn't come out and say the person in the sketch is dangerous, do not approach them ...blah blah blah. I haven't seen anything like that mentioned.
They want people to call the tipline if they recognize the person in the sketch.
Gugug
05-13-2009, 04:19 PM
And with no live telecast of today's PC from Tara McDonald, I believe it's the beginning of the end.
More than a month has passed. There is nothing to report. The press is losing interest in this story, and so are viewers and readers. Sad for Tori, but that's how I see it.
This had to happen eventually.
Gugug
05-13-2009, 04:34 PM
A half brother would mean Tara's father fathered this man and there's a blood relation. A step-brother = no blood relation.
I think step siblings seize to be steps when the relationship ends but I guess depending if the step siblings were close, they would still call each other step brother or step sister. :unsure:
And assuming that "Aunt Pepper" is Linda Jacklin, who i think may be John's mother, the title of "aunt" would save one from all the lengthy explanations that might ensue. Linda Jacklin is the one variously referred to as Tori's and Tara's aunt. She organized Tori's Ride Home.
doctor_J
05-13-2009, 04:46 PM
It may be just me but I would be grasping at any straws if my child was missing. I just find so many of her answers odd....
Hi everyone. Just got online and see there's no news. I thought this comment Tara made that she thought people were just grasping at straws was particularly strange. You would expect a distraught mother to be the one hoping for sightings of any kind. After all, she supposedly has no idea who took her or where she is located. Strange that she would denounce sightings almost as unworthy of her attention.
My laptop is so ancient, it took 21/2 hours to open Windows today. Almost as long as it took me to stand up straight, lol. Any recommendations for a good, fast, but cheap laptop????
I keep wishing the FBI was on this case. Wonder if anyone from the FBI is consulting? Just Good Ole American Bias I know. But the FBI always gets their man :rolleyes:!
Hi everyone. Just got online and see there's no news. I thought this comment Tara made that she thought people were just grasping at straws was particularly strange. You would expect a distraught mother to be the one hoping for sightings of any kind. After all, she supposedly has no idea who took her or where she is located. Strange that she would denounce sightings almost as unworthy of her attention.
My laptop is so ancient, it took 21/2 hours to open Windows today. Almost as long as it took me to stand up straight, lol. Any recommendations for a good, fast, but cheap laptop????
I keep wishing the FBI was on this case. Wonder if anyone from the FBI is consulting? Just Good Ole American Bias I know. But the FBI always gets their man :rolleyes:!
RCMP is the equivalent to your FBI. They're the ones who searched Tara's "brother's" home and his mom's in Alberta
Orleaner12
05-13-2009, 04:58 PM
Hi everyone. Just got online and see there's no news. I thought this comment Tara made that she thought people were just grasping at straws was particularly strange. You would expect a distraught mother to be the one hoping for sightings of any kind. After all, she supposedly has no idea who took her or where she is located. Strange that she would denounce sightings almost as unworthy of her attention.
My laptop is so ancient, it took 21/2 hours to open Windows today. Almost as long as it took me to stand up straight, lol. Any recommendations for a good, fast, but cheap laptop????
I keep wishing the FBI was on this case. Wonder if anyone from the FBI is consulting? Just Good Ole American Bias I know. But the FBI always gets their man :rolleyes:!
I chuckled at your last sentence:thumbsup: that's the slogan of our RCMP ha.....not sure if the FBI would be able to investigate a crime here in Canada though but I do agree with you....
doctor_J
05-13-2009, 05:03 PM
RCMP is the equivalent to your FBI. They're the ones who searched Tara's "brother's" home and his mom's in Alberta
That's the Mounties, right? I know nothing of them and unfortunately, although I actually know how to google, with a computer that moves at the speed of melting glaciers, research is not currently my forte. In fiction, the Mounties are often the victims of bad humor. Good to know they are similar to FBI. So glad to have so many Canadians on the board. I often forget it's a different country and not just a really big 51st state, lol.
I think if Quantico had a day or two with that video of the "abduction" they would know without question if it was Tara. So I"m assuming that is known. What does OPP stand for???
I did try to do some criminal background checks on main charactors and had no luck whatsoever. Too many courts in too many provinces and wayyyy too many alias's (sp). Also there's something involving forgiveness apparently in which a person convicted gets to keep record secret until a chance to cleanse their record.
Orleaner12
05-13-2009, 05:06 PM
That's the Mounties, right? I know nothing of them and unfortunately, although I actually know how to google, with a computer that moves at the speed of melting glaciers, research is not currently my forte. In fiction, the Mounties are often the victims of bad humor. Good to know they are similar to FBI. So glad to have so many Canadians on the board. I often forget it's a different country and not just a really big 51st state, lol.
I think if Quantico had a day or two with that video of the "abduction" they would know without question if it was Tara. So I"m assuming that is known. What does OPP stand for???
I did try to do some criminal background checks on main charactors and had no luck whatsoever. Too many courts in too many provinces and wayyyy too many alias's (sp). Also there's something involving forgiveness apparently in which a person convicted gets to keep record secret until a chance to cleanse their record.
Dr. J if you are in Canada I just saw a flyer today from Staples and they have two Laptops on sale..one is a Toshiba for $529.96 and the other is an Acer for $329.96.......in case you are interested..
That's the Mounties, right? I know nothing of them and unfortunately, although I actually know how to google, with a computer that moves at the speed of melting glaciers, research is not currently my forte. In fiction, the Mounties are often the victims of bad humor. Good to know they are similar to FBI. So glad to have so many Canadians on the board. I often forget it's a different country and not just a really big 51st state, lol.
I think if Quantico had a day or two with that video of the "abduction" they would know without question if it was Tara. So I"m assuming that is known. What does OPP stand for???
I did try to do some criminal background checks on main charactors and had no luck whatsoever. Too many courts in too many provinces and wayyyy too many alias's (sp). Also there's something involving forgiveness apparently in which a person convicted gets to keep record secret until a chance to cleanse their record.
OPP = Ontario Provincial Police
RCMP,,,yup the mounties :smile:
Some Government of Canada records are closed and must be reviewed under the provisions of the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act. Thererfore obtaining any criminal records will be very difficult.
Very different than what y'all can access in the USA.
doctor_J
05-13-2009, 05:12 PM
Dr. J if you are in Canada I just saw a flyer today from Staples and they have two Laptops on sale..one is a Toshiba for $529.96 and the other is an Acer for $329.96.......in case you are interested..
I'm in Mississippi but you gave me an idea. Those are great prices and I will check for the same specials online. My son has mentioned the low prices and good guality of Acers but I've never heard of them until recently. I just bought a new hard drive for my old hand-me-down but I think it was throwing good money after bad.
Orleaner12
05-13-2009, 05:15 PM
Media Interest Fades in Stafford Case
Written by Adam J. Nyp
It looks like the end of the 1 o'clock news conferences in front of Tara McDonald's house.
The mother of missing 8-year-old Tori Stafford was not home today when just three reporters showed up for the daily interview.
The reporters were from Heart FM, Rogers TV and Woodstock-Sentinel-Review. It signifies the first time since the day the story broke where only local media were covering the story of the missing girl.
Since Tori went missing, McDonald has been holding daily news conferences infront of her home to keep the story in the spotlight.
However, local reporters showed up with no subject to interview today.
Neither Tara McDonald nor Rodney Stafford was present.
Police say they have no new information to provide on the case
Media Interest Fades in Stafford Case
Written by Adam J. Nyp
It looks like the end of the 1 o'clock news conferences in front of Tara McDonald's house.
The mother of missing 8-year-old Tori Stafford was not home today when just three reporters showed up for the daily interview.
The reporters were from Heart FM, Rogers TV and Woodstock-Sentinel-Review. It signifies the first time since the day the story broke where only local media were covering the story of the missing girl.
Since Tori went missing, McDonald has been holding daily news conferences infront of her home to keep the story in the spotlight.
However, local reporters showed up with no subject to interview today.
Neither Tara McDonald nor Rodney Stafford was present.
Police say they have no new information to provide on the case
Not surprising. How much more can they really say? No leads, no sightings, no updates from police.
Didn't Tara say there was going to be a vigil? Was that last night or tonight?
doctor_J
05-13-2009, 05:32 PM
my bold
Don't be dissin' Dudley Do-Right!:laugh:
OPP is Ontario Provincial Police.
ROFL! Now I'll be thinking Dudley Do-Right every time that Maitlin press officer speaks. I had not thought of him in years.
Why would Tara not show up as long as one single reporter was there? What is more important for her to do? Do you all think this is good or bad, right or wrong? I realize she has been soundly criticized for holding them but someone has to keep the torch burning. I really don't know what I'd do. Probably become a catatonic ball of useless flesh. But of course, I don't think Tara is an innocent victim here, as I've made clear.
Hi everyone. Just got online and see there's no news. I thought this comment Tara made that she thought people were just grasping at straws was particularly strange. You would expect a distraught mother to be the one hoping for sightings of any kind. After all, she supposedly has no idea who took her or where she is located. Strange that she would denounce sightings almost as unworthy of her attention.
My laptop is so ancient, it took 21/2 hours to open Windows today. Almost as long as it took me to stand up straight, lol. Any recommendations for a good, fast, but cheap laptop????
I keep wishing the FBI was on this case. Wonder if anyone from the FBI is consulting? Just Good Ole American Bias I know. But the FBI always gets their man :rolleyes:!
Hello there doctor_J,
While I agree that there should be more being done by police/RCMP/CSIS to help in finding little Tori, I don't think I agree with your statment I have put in bold.
Keep in mind, I do not want to come off rude in anyway, but I would like to add my opinion...
If the FBI always gets their man, why are their shows such as "America's Most Wanted" ?? I mean, couldn't the FBI just take over all the searches for these wanted men and women, and ta-da, no more AMW.
Sorry if I take offence to that statement, I know you didn't mean anything by it. I just want Canada to do more for Tori, and it seems like she is slipping though the cracks. Not fair for anyone, nevermind a child.
Orleaner12
05-13-2009, 05:41 PM
either Tara had something better to do today or maybe her lawyer has advised her to lay off the PC's..not sure why Rodney didn't attend...it seems interest in the PC's are fading though and I agree as nothing new is revealed...maybe Tara expected Anderson Cooper from CNN to arrive and is peeved because it is only the local Joe from the local tabloid:rolleyes: or.....maybe the OPP are about to spring:w00t:
Orleaner12
05-13-2009, 05:47 PM
MJ...CSIS has nothing to do with crimes such as this one unless national security is involved........I have faith in our OPP and I am sure a lot of overtime has been going on trying to solve this crime... also I chuckled at Dr. J's comment re FBI and I am sure it was only thrown out there in jest...that is also the slogan of our own RCMP ....
MJ...CSIS has nothing to do with crimes such as this one unless national security is involved........I have faith in our OPP and I am sure a lot of overtime has been going on trying to solve this crime... also I chuckled at Dr. J's comment re FBI and I am sure it was only thrown out there in jest...that is also the slogan of our own RCMP ....
I know, but I'm sure you can understand my frustrations.. all of us probably feel the same way.
I know CSIS isn't involved, I was just making a point that SOMEONE should be doing something..
I know OPP is working on it, but it sucks not hearing anything.
(I just said "I know" to start 3 sentences. I suck! haha)
I was reading thru the last page of the previous thread, much about the limo episode.
I haven't heard anyone in the neighborhood who recalls seeing a limo parked anywhere. Even if it was pulled up in an alley, someone surely would have noticed a limo driving along the street to get there. Unless the good people of Woodstock normally hire limo's, I would think that a limo in the neighborhood would have caused @ least some curiosity, and someone would have confirmed seeing it.
Another thing was the phone #. As it was printed (in the news article) Tara had a phone number to call once Tori was returned. That number would be given to the abductors to arrange payment? I really think the abductors would demand the payment before, or @ the least, @ the time of their returning Tori. I don't know, if there really is such a person, would s/he be so dumb as to think the abductors would return Tori and THEN negotiate the monies? Or, is this something Tara concocted, not thinking things thru. If I were an abductor, I would want to be able to take the money and run. It would be risky enough to try to get the money @ the time (come on, this is big news, would the kidnapper think the police wouldn't be watching, waiting to pounce?) I think I would have a slight more chance getting away if I had the money @ the time of returning Tori, but I don't think I would have the chance of a snowball in Hades getting the money after the fact.
There was a mention about Sara and her license to sell vehicles, and could the limo been procured thru her association with this? And, a comment about a limo driver has to have a special license, and they would have to find someone (adding another person to the picture.) Well, when someone is doing something dishonest in the first place, why would anyone expect them to follow the law in another aspect? Any one of them could have (if there really was a limo) driven the limo, license or not.
Orleaner12
05-13-2009, 06:00 PM
Yes MJ I understand but we all know that the police in Canada are very tight lipped and will not release any info until all the dots are connected...I don't blame them as why would they jeopardize their investigations by releasing any information...have faith.......:wink: all will be revealed in time......
doctor_J
05-13-2009, 06:09 PM
Hello there doctor_J,
While I agree that there should be more being done by police/RCMP/CSIS to help in finding little Tori, I don't think I agree with your statment I have put in bold.
Keep in mind, I do not want to come off rude in anyway, but I would like to add my opinion...
If the FBI always gets their man, why are their shows such as "America's Most Wanted" ?? I mean, couldn't the FBI just take over all the searches for these wanted men and women, and ta-da, no more AMW.
Sorry if I take offence to that statement, I know you didn't mean anything by it. I just want Canada to do more for Tori, and it seems like she is slipping though the cracks. Not fair for anyone, nevermind a child.
Hi M_J, notice the rolling eye icon after quoting the FBI motto. I thought that explained that I was being facetious.
doctor_J
05-13-2009, 06:21 PM
I was reading thru the last page of the previous thread, much about the limo episode.
I haven't heard anyone in the neighborhood who recalls seeing a limo parked anywhere. Even if it was pulled up in an alley, someone surely would have noticed a limo driving along the street to get there. Unless the good people of Woodstock normally hire limo's, I would think that a limo in the neighborhood would have caused @ least some curiosity, and someone would have confirmed seeing it.
Another thing was the phone #. As it was printed (in the news article) Tara had a phone number to call once Tori was returned. That number would be given to the abductors to arrange payment? I really think the abductors would demand the payment before, or @ the least, @ the time of their returning Tori. I don't know, if there really is such a person, would s/he be so dumb as to think the abductors would return Tori and THEN negotiate the monies? Or, is this something Tara concocted, not thinking things thru. If I were an abductor, I would want to be able to take the money and run. It would be risky enough to try to get the money @ the time (come on, this is big news, would the kidnapper think the police wouldn't be watching, waiting to pounce?) I think I would have a slight more chance getting away if I had the money @ the time of returning Tori, but I don't think I would have the chance of a snowball in Hades getting the money after the fact.
There was a mention about Sara and her license to sell vehicles, and could the limo been procured thru her association with this? And, a comment about a limo driver has to have a special license, and they would have to find someone (adding another person to the picture.) Well, when someone is doing something dishonest in the first place, why would anyone expect them to follow the law in another aspect? Any one of them could have (if there really was a limo) driven the limo, license or not.
My first thought was that a limo could not go unnoticed in that area. Especially with the press there. It makes no sense. It's not Rodeo Drive. But to claim the pic was inside the limo means that the whole group would have to conspire on the lie, unless they at least had a limo ride (that Tara alone could have arranged online).
The number thing is also nonsensical for reasons you explained. A ransom is not paid AFTER the abductee is recovered. That would be a REWARD. You don't reward the kidnapper. So what number did she give LE? Is she stupid enough just to make one up? Not for a minute do I believe there is an actual rich benefactor, that noone saw but Tara. Come to think of it, noone has even told the story but Tara, unless Sarsh confirmed it in her interview. Of course she could only confirm the limo ride.
This woman is sadly delusional and narcissistic. Exteme MBP, JMO.
I think the OPP is waiting for a body to be found. I asked yesterday if Canada had ever sucessfully prosecuted a murder without a body. Got no reply.
My first thought was that a limo could not go unnoticed in that area. Especially with the press there. It makes no sense. It's not Rodeo Drive. But to claim the pic was inside the limo means that the whole group would have to conspire on the lie, unless they at least had a limo ride (that Tara alone could have arranged online).
The number thing is also nonsensical for reasons you explained. A ransom is not paid AFTER the abductee is recovered. That would be a REWARD. You don't reward the kidnapper. So what number did she give LE? Is she stupid enough just to make one up? Not for a minute do I believe there is an actual rich benefactor, that noone saw but Tara. Come to think of it, noone has even told the story but Tara, unless Sarsh confirmed it in her interview. Of course she could only confirm the limo ride.
This woman is sadly delusional and narcissistic. Exteme MBP, JMO.
I think the OPP is waiting for a body to be found. I asked yesterday if Canada had ever sucessfully prosecuted a murder without a body. Got no reply.
Yes, I believe this article was from 2001. Murder may have happened in 2000?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2001/01/12/murder010112.html
I don't think they don't say if this guy was deemed guilty or not, but at least they were charging him?
days of yore
05-13-2009, 07:38 PM
another thought about the limo ride.....
A while back, I posted a thought that they might have taken the limo ride much earlier (perhaps for a birthday, or another event, OR staged the ride a couple of weeks prior to the abduction), with the plan of announcing the ride just as it happened.
If they took this ride from the airport, easily done, it would have been paid for with cash and the driver would have never even noticed who his clients were.
The photos could have been taken on another phone, downloaded to a computer and then uploaded to her new iphone with 'doctored' stamp details, such as the date, time, etc. from photoshop.
Who knows, but I certainly agree, that having a special phone number and account made up, just so the abductors can withdraw the money??? What person, in their right mind would want that type of paper trail??? I can see it now...."ah, yes, please...I'm here to pick up my ransom money from Mr. Bigbucks for returning Tori today. Can I please have the money in large, unmarked bills? Amount, you ask? Hmmm...I'm not sure. Mr. Bigbucks didn't say, so why don't we say $100,000.00? I don't want to be greedy because Mr. Bigbucks has been so generous!" :glare:
days of yore
05-13-2009, 07:42 PM
Somebody on Facebook said that Rodney was at a funeral today and that is why there was no press conference.
I guess now that Tara doesn't have her body guards, she won't do a press conference without someone, or did she and Rodney come to some understanding that they need to do all of them together from now on??
Gugug
05-13-2009, 07:53 PM
Yes, I believe this article was from 2001. Murder may have happened in 2000?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2001/01/12/murder010112.html
I don't think they don't say if this guy was deemed guilty or not, but at least they were charging him?
Dr. Abraham Cooper was found guilty of manslaughter in the death of Dr. Doug Snider in Alberta. Snider's body has never been found. Police found Cooper's car at the Edmonton International Airport with blood dripping out of the trunk. There was a history of disagreements between the two. Other doctors had left the Fairview area because of disagreements with Snider, according to news reports at the time. Cooper is free now.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2008/02/08/cooper-out.html
There was also a case more recently in Edmonton. One person was murdered, and body parts were apparently left in various areas, including Saskatchewan. The judge asked the murderer to tell where he'd hidden them, in order to give closure to the family. He would not.
http://www2.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=573b5415-3f4b-4f27-9013-8dbe7dd23cc5&k=0
Cooper didn't tell, either.
Gugug
05-13-2009, 07:55 PM
I know, but I'm sure you can understand my frustrations.. all of us probably feel the same way.
I know CSIS isn't involved, I was just making a point that SOMEONE should be doing something..
I know OPP is working on it, but it sucks not hearing anything.
(I just said "I know" to start 3 sentences. I suck! haha)
Michael White's story may shed some light.
another thought about the limo ride.....
A while back, I posted a thought that they might have taken the limo ride much earlier (perhaps for a birthday, or another event, OR staged the ride a couple of weeks prior to the abduction), with the plan of announcing the ride just as it happened.
If they took this ride from the airport, easily done, it would have been paid for with cash and the driver would have never even noticed who his clients were.
The photos could have been taken on another phone, downloaded to a computer and then uploaded to her new iphone with 'doctored' stamp details, such as the date, time, etc. from photoshop.
Who knows, but I certainly agree, that having a special phone number and account made up, just so the abductors can withdraw the money??? What person, in their right mind would want that type of paper trail??? I can see it now...."ah, yes, please...I'm here to pick up my ransom money from Mr. Bigbucks for returning Tori today. Can I please have the money in large, unmarked bills? Amount, you ask? Hmmm...I'm not sure. Mr. Bigbucks didn't say, so why don't we say $100,000.00? I don't want to be greedy because Mr. Bigbucks has been so generous!" :glare:
Wasn't it Daryn's birthday? Another coincidence? I think we all agree that the limo ride is beyond weird.
We never did find out who left that tree in front of the home? Remember that? Another oddity in the case. Nobody saw that person either. The tree just appeared.
virgogal
05-13-2009, 08:08 PM
But HOW could she hide from family and friends buying a tree...making decorations for said tree, decorating the thing and then planting it on the porch without ANY worried and/or anxious family members, friends or neighbours seeing anything at all??
I tend to think maybe a neighbour made that tree but did not want any fuss...though I would not be caught dead creeping around the property of a missing child at night! LOL
days of yore
05-13-2009, 08:17 PM
But HOW could she hide from family and friends buying a tree...making decorations for said tree, decorating the thing and then planting it on the porch without ANY worried and/or anxious family members, friends or neighbours seeing anything at all??
I tend to think maybe a neighbour made that tree but did not want any fuss...though I would not be caught dead creeping around the property of a missing child at night! LOL
my bold...
HA! Good point & so true!!! I agree, that it was probably some kind hearted person who really met well. It was early on in the case, so perhaps it was before any real red flags were being raised...
days of yore
05-13-2009, 08:23 PM
Still curious about which uncle Tara was helping to clean the van?!?!!? I remember this press conference when she said this and it hit me because I assumed that John didn't arrive until after Tori went missing - for support.
THEN, Rodney tells us during the PC on his own, that he's almost certain that John showed up after the abduction.
Who else would it have been??
I am about 98% positive about her answering the PC question about where she was the day when Tori went missing. I thought I heard her say that she was helping an uncle clean out his van that day. Anyone hear this particular press conference???
days of yore
05-13-2009, 08:36 PM
Even if I didn't want to point fingers at Tara and couldn't prove a thing based on what we do know...
I still find it very disturbing that as the mother of a missing child, she admittedly has done nothing to help in the search of her own child. As somebody mentioned before, there was money raised, and rather than put it in a trust account, it sickens me that every last penny was not spent or even considered for the hiring of a private investigator or put towards some effort to help find her child. :sad:
virgogal
05-13-2009, 08:38 PM
I agree...I hear that too and thought
"Van cleaning+Uncle+Missing child??? Hmmm....could this mean something?"
days of yore
05-13-2009, 08:39 PM
Well, if she did have a computer, she could have looked up a certain psychic's website yesterday morning. The psychic posted that someone in the case would be wearing a heart necklace. Tara McDonald wore a heart necklace at yesterday's PC.....
respectfully snipped...
Hey Gugug! Excuse my ignorance on this one :blushing: May I ask which psychic, or for a link? I wouldn't mind checking this one out and following their insights on the case!!
Orleaner12
05-13-2009, 08:41 PM
Still curious about which uncle Tara was helping to clean the van?!?!!? I remember this press conference when she said this and it hit me because I assumed that John didn't arrive until after Tori went missing - for support.
THEN, Rodney tells us during the PC on his own, that he's almost certain that John showed up after the abduction.
Who else would it have been??
I am about 98% positive about her answering the PC question about where she was the day when Tori went missing. I thought I heard her say that she was helping an uncle clean out his van that day. Anyone hear this particular press conference???
She did mention in a PC last week about helping an uncle clean his van that fatal day.. I didn't think it was this John because he is her step/half/ brother...not an uncle.. I also thought I heard Tara say yesterday when she was giving out the info about what religion etc. they were that Rodney was from the Smith Falls area....anyone else catch that.....also she mentioned something about studying at "St. Jo's" and that's why she was living there for two years....the place where this "St. Jo's" is not Smith Falls.....does it take two years to qualify as a Doula? oh....and where is this St. Jo's...........anyone?
Orleaner12
05-13-2009, 08:45 PM
Even if I didn't want to point fingers at Tara and couldn't prove a thing based on what we do know...
I still find it very disturbing that as the mother of a missing child, she admittedly has done nothing to help in the search of her own child. As somebody mentioned before, there was money raised, and rather than put it in a trust account, it sickens me that every last penny was not spent or even considered for the hiring of a private investigator or put towards some effort to help find her child. :sad:
private snoop...not sure Tara would want to go that route:scared: besides that would one be able to hire one since this is in the hands of the police and an ongoing investigation...doubt whether the police would hand over any evidence that they have to date..........
Skraps
05-13-2009, 08:57 PM
I have a question for anyone who remembers. I just read that LE are calling Tori's disappearance an "isolated incident" is that true? What does that mean for this case, does that mean they think someone from the family is involved? Honestly, how could they come out and say it is isolated if a stranger took her?
Do you have the link for this please, JD?
Skraps
05-13-2009, 09:02 PM
[QUOTE=virgogal;13099250]
Well if others on here have done a good job, there'd be no need for pot shots to be taken.
I'm not accusing you of being the lurker, I'm just saying someone on here complained that there were people coming to this website from FB, lurking. Well let's face it people, when you're copying and pasting links to people's FB profiles and they find out about it, I bet those people are going to be some hopping mad people. It's almost like people from FB can't come here but anyone from this site can go over there and go through people's friend lists and that's all people want to do because they want to check out friend lists, find anyone in the friend list that has dark hair, provide a link and say "This person looks like the sketch!!!!" Give me a break. I'm sure LE already went down this avenue and if that's all people are wanting to join their friend list for, I'd have to say those are people with cruel intentions.
I'm here to discuss the case but when one person from here complains there's a lurker from FB but then people from here go over there, it's almost like people are trying to start a website war.
Now, I really don't wish to discuss FB anymore because of what Coldwater put in the warning post. It's not just to protect the family, that TOS is there to protect us too.
I believe I have done this as well and quite frankly, it is my prerogative to do so.
I suggest, no one take me personally.:closedeyes:
days of yore
05-13-2009, 09:11 PM
She did mention in a PC last week about helping an uncle clean his van that fatal day.. I didn't think it was this John because he is her step/half/ brother...not an uncle.. I also thought I heard Tara say yesterday when she was giving out the info about what religion etc. they were that Rodney was from the Smith Falls area....anyone else catch that.....also she mentioned something about studying at "St. Jo's" and that's why she was living there for two years....the place where this "St. Jo's" is not Smith Falls.....does it take two years to qualify as a Doula? oh....and where is this St. Jo's...........anyone?
It's so confusing when Tara uses relation terms so loosely. Sometimes mentioning "uncle", when she means Tori's uncle, grandpa, when she means not Tori's grandpa, but her grandfather, etc. I can't keep up...WHEW!!
Yes, she said she was Anglican and Rodney was ?? St. Joe's was the hospital where she took her training, and I can't remember where???? London, I believe....she said that she was there for 2 years while going to school, i think??
days of yore
05-13-2009, 10:08 PM
Funny you should mention the 'dog thing' and perhaps being hurt intentionally...
I don't know if there's any truth to this, but someone on FB said that the dog was poisoned?? It would certainly be an interesting fit to your theory, if this were true....
BeetlebrowII
05-13-2009, 11:05 PM
Howdy everyone!
So the mothers day card and the letter written by TM was a much wimpier sympathy ploy than I expected. IMO I still think something more dramatic is on the horizon.
Is she really trying to tell us that she is going to try to stop being angry and try to have forgiveness towards the abductor(s)?. All well and good except.......her anger has been directed toward everyone except whomever took Tori.....n'est pas???. :wink: I think expecting Tara not to be angry is like asking the sun not to set....cannot be done IMO.
Finally, has no one mentioned to Tara the fact that if she sues a poster from that social networking sight, the defendent is entitled to defend themselves by recorded interviews and investigation into Tara's life???. Maybe she is visiting a lawyer for a different reason and does not want that revealed......maybe. Of course the fact that she is doing this while her daughter is missing is hard for sane person to comprehend IMO.
I guess the end of the pressors as we know them was expected. I hope they do not stop completely.......I think once or twice a week would be sufficient......and frankly easier on us since we would not have to watch in frustration every day :tonguewag:.
I also work in the mental health field and simply put......a "personality disorder" does not have an "organic" or physical cause. It is not that they do not suspect that there is a physical element involved, there has just not been any research conducted that proves with any reliability a certain physical component is present in MOST cases(ie.....brain injury, heredity, abnormal brain chemicals....etc). Personality disorders are affected by environment or nurture vs. nature or something that you are born with. Please feel free to correct anything Virgo. :smile:
days of yore
05-14-2009, 12:00 AM
Any of you guys and gals from the U.S. have any idea/statistical information on states with the death penalty?
I *think* I remember hearing that it was reinstated in one or a couple of states and wondered how it worked on lowering the #'s of violent crimes? Anyone ever done any research or have any knowledge of this?
Hope4Tori
05-14-2009, 12:01 AM
Hey everyone here!:)
As I notice that interest in Tori is now waning among the many thousands of people following the case, it is I imagine, to be expected that most people simply cannot devote as much intense energy towards trying to find answers - naturally people get tired and discouraged.
I feel somewhat responsible for the tensions that I am interpreting here on the board as I catch up since my last visit here. The topic of mental illness and personality disorders was mentioned by me on a couple of occasions with my own personal, anecdotal examples, and once in response specifically to Gugog who had I believe mentioned that PDs were not mental illnesses and I had agreed. Kinetic made the case that PDs in fact (in Canada) are classified as such and I conceded to that fact, although I do believe as I had expained there are distinctions. In any case, as I have always stated, I am not a mental health professional nor am I an expert, but I do have valuable experience having family members effected by both PDs and bi-polar illness, and like most people, I and my beliefs are effected by personal experience.
I do not discount science, medicine and research etc., but I have met many mental health pros in my life and they are like others in different fiels - some fabulous and many mediocre. Not everyone who thinks they are an expert in fact are, IMO. I truly believe that the only way to educate anyone about any topic is to sometimes take a step back and allow them to make their own conclusions - even if in one's most sincere opinion that conclusion is misguided. I really believe we come to know and accept truth at our own comfort level and it is naturally influenced by many factors - and what we arrive at it is what I call perspective. There's space for every opinion, IMO!
As far as everyone here goes - you are and have been doing an amazing thing - trying to unravel the mystery of Tori's abduction - so there is no room for much else - and in writing on this board, as I often find in e-mails, it is very hard to accurately interpret tone and intention, and therefore sometimes misunderstandings arise between the mowt well-meaning people.
We are all exhausted by the pace of the investigation and the press and the characters - and generally by all the lack of information - but I do know in my heart, that even when we ALL have had moments of disatisfaction with one or the other on this board, this gathering place is special and supercedes ALL of the others, and I still consider this a friendly and welcoming place to share my thoughts and feelings and it should never become a place where any of us feel judged or unwelcome. That's up to ALL of us who care to protect its integrity and show care and empathy towards one another.
I too peek in on other boards - don't post becasue they are not for me - but I have found that it is helpful to know the rumours as well as the facts. In the end, the difference between them will be clarified.
I was so excited to see the dog issue get the attention it deserved - I wish the press had "pressed" for more clarification on that angle of the story because I have always felt there was more to that story than was being revealed - but maybe I am being histrionic in that regard!:)
Anyways, I am sorry if my post is coming off as a highminded or arrogant lecture - that is not my intention! I'm sorry if any of my longwinded opinions ever caused any one here any confusion or whatever negative emotion and I just hope that the next time I check in I will see that we will have all got some sleep and some much needed perspective and that we will always be "friends" - complete strangers who came together in an atmosphere of trust and goodwill - with all our likes and differences - for a wonderful common cause - as together we hope that our efforts may make some small difference to ensure justice for Tori as we collectively and wholeheartedly wish for Tori's safe return home.:wub:
nothingnew
05-14-2009, 01:28 AM
I think the OPP is waiting for a body to be found. I asked yesterday if Canada had ever sucessfully prosecuted a murder without a body. Got no reply.snipped just to answer specific question, hope i quoted correct person
Found this news article through Google-don't know what outcome was, no time to look now but at the bottom of article it says yes there have been convictions:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2001/01/12/murder010112.html
nothingnew
05-14-2009, 02:05 AM
Regarding conviction without a body in Canada, yes Kenneth McKay was convicted. Here's the link regarding his appeal
http://csc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/news_release/2005/05-12-14.4.wpd/05-12-14.4.wpd.html
Ok, guess this was already covered-running to catch up now.
nothingnew
05-14-2009, 03:13 AM
Hi all, I'm new here although I've been lurking for awhile.
Yeah, so anyway, about Tori...
I'm disappointed to see that people are losing interest in the case, although it's understandable after how long it's been. I've been following it from close to the beginning. I don't know why this particular case interests me so much. I go back and forth from thinking the mother had something to do with it, to thinking she didn't. I really don't know. All I know is that Tori has to be somewhere!
One thing I can contribute (or try to), is about the jacket. After watching the video over and over, I really think there is no black strap. It appears to not be there in the beginning, and so I think it's just a shadow caused by a drawstring at the waist. I could be wrong, though--it does seem like an awfully deep shadow if that's what it is.
Welcome aboard! I'm not convinced that people are losing interest, more like everyones hands are tied. The Tara pc's handed up more questions than answers and according to her last one she now has plans to meet with someone so she can start looking for Tori so maybe she'll be busy doing that for awhile. A few days ago someone here mentioned going to a Dr's appointment in a town about 30 minutes away from Woodstock and said there were no flyers posted around town. If Tara is giving her tv talks every day and no one in the local towns know anything about Tori then the pc's seem kind of useless as far as getting information out to the public. In my opinion the press and police encouraged them more as an investigative tool, to hear what Taras' responses, remember they never had her back to finish her polygraph-no proof, just my opinion. I also think Tara might have been clued into that and so now will limit the meetings. I have to believe that LE is getting close to finding Tori.
I do believe you are correct about that being a shadowand not a strap on the jacket.
streeter
05-14-2009, 03:43 AM
Hi all, I'm new here although I've been lurking for awhile.
Yeah, so anyway, about Tori...
I'm disappointed to see that people are losing interest in the case, although it's understandable after how long it's been. I've been following it from close to the beginning. I don't know why this particular case interests me so much. I go back and forth from thinking the mother had something to do with it, to thinking she didn't. I really don't know. All I know is that Tori has to be somewhere!
One thing I can contribute (or try to), is about the jacket. After watching the video over and over, I really think there is no black strap. It appears to not be there in the beginning, and so I think it's just a shadow caused by a drawstring at the waist. I could be wrong, though--it does seem like an awfully deep shadow if that's what it is.
Welcome Kittymama. :seeya:
I'm not so sure people are losing interest...I think it's the media that's losing interest. My IRL friends know that I follow the case very closely and they are always asking for news about Tori, because, as they say, they can't find anything in the newspapers about her! People are very, very worried, though, and I think everyone is really starving for information -- just something concrete -- from the police.
I don't know what to think of the video anymore. It's just so pixellated when you look up close, and when you look from too far, there's not enough detail. Why bother having cameras when they are such poor quality that they don't pick anything up? I remember when that girl in the US was attacked in a Walmart parking lot in broad daylight and pushed into her car, and the security camera showed the perp. He was, quite literally, a blur zipping across the parking lot. :shrug:
doctor_J
05-14-2009, 03:48 AM
I'm pretty late getting into the internet age but I can't see how anyone that posts information on social networking sites in the internet can have any real expectation of privacy. That's especially true if strangers are allowed as "friends". Not to mention the ever present possibility of hackers. It's bizarre to me that people post private info. online.
This case has gone on far to long. Tara just does not impress me as having the intellect to outsmart the OPP. I agree with Bugout that she was probably angry with herself for forgetting the videocam that recorded the "abduction". It is hard to keep a child hidden for this long. The Shannon Matthews hoax lasted only 24 days. For Tori to be alive there has to be a conspiracy involving several people. The only way I know to keep a secret is to not tell a single soul. I can't see a whole group of these people keeping OPP at bay. What I don't understand is why they are not subjecting the parents and step-parents (or boyfriends) to hours and hours of interrigation. I haven't seen anything about Tara being "lawyered up" so she's fair game for continued questioning.Has this woman ever shown any grief or any emotion other than anger toward criticism?
Anybody get this station and give us a recap of what Rodney has to say?
Rodney Stafford on 570 News
570 News Kitchener | Thursday, May 14th, 2009 6:00 am Kitchener - He re-lives April 8th every day.
It's now been 5 weeks since 8-year-old Victoria Stafford disappeared from outside her Woodstock school. Her father Rodney says it's been a very trying time but the family is still holding out hope the little girl will return home. He made his comments in Toronto last night where a vigil was held in Victoria's honour.
Stafford will appear on 570's Jeff Allan show this morning.
http://www.570news.com/news/local/more.jsp?content=20090514_054510_9040
Mom's no-show at press conference irks father
"I told her this morning (I was going to a funeral)," Stafford said in a brief interview. "I asked her to please make sure she did the press conference."
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/14/9452961-sun.html
virgogal
05-14-2009, 07:49 AM
It must be brutal for Rodney to have to attend a funeral when his child is missing. He's attending ballon launches regularly in addition to the PC's...I think he must be on emotional auto-pilot!
Hoping for some good news soon!
Hi all, I'm new here although I've been lurking for awhile.
Yeah, so anyway, about Tori...
I'm disappointed to see that people are losing interest in the case, although it's understandable after how long it's been. I've been following it from close to the beginning. I don't know why this particular case interests me so much. I go back and forth from thinking the mother had something to do with it, to thinking she didn't. I really don't know. All I know is that Tori has to be somewhere!
One thing I can contribute (or try to), is about the jacket. After watching the video over and over, I really think there is no black strap. It appears to not be there in the beginning, and so I think it's just a shadow caused by a drawstring at the waist. I could be wrong, though--it does seem like an awfully deep shadow if that's what it is.
Hi and welcome! :smile:
There have been many with the same observation as you regarding the black strap.
Just a thought. I wonder if LE cut a portion of the tape and only released what we see? They may have had a reason not to show all of it. Maybe that's why we don't see the black strap at the start but we see it later. Or, like you say, it could be a deep shadow.
I think LE has a lot more on this "abductor" than they're saying.
I'm reposting the surveillance video for those wanting to take another look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0a6oUxsEpE
Good morning all,
wow.. I didn't think I'd have to read 3 pages to catch up!
Welcome to kittymama. :) you'll like us, were usually quite nice, if not at times entertaining! haha
Orleaner12, you asked if Tara was taking a doula course in Smith Falls, she wasn't, she said they lived in London for 2 years while she was taking a course. Rodney asked where she went to school, and thats when she told him St. Jo's.
I hope we can all pull together and continue to add in the pieces of this puzzle wrapped around Tori.
Now that I am going to be late for work, I should get some real clothes on and get out the door. hahaha.
Have a good day all, lets hope for her safe return. Bad weather today. Thunderstorms in S. Ontario. Lets hope she's not outside.:crying:
days of yore
05-14-2009, 09:06 AM
Mom's no-show at press conference irks father
"I told her this morning (I was going to a funeral)," Stafford said in a brief interview. "I asked her to please make sure she did the press conference."
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/14/9452961-sun.html
Thanks for the link, N/T. It was said on FB that Rodney went to a funeral, so it was nice to put some written fact to that comment.
I hope that if Tara is trying to wane interest by not being there and not telling anyone so, Rodney starts taking control of the pc's and keeps them going...
Lorelei
05-14-2009, 09:21 AM
I watched the video again, and noticed around the 19 second mark, the person of interest stumbles a bit (just before they cross the street). Not significant I guess, but something I didn't notice before.
I watched the video again, and noticed around the 19 second mark, the person of interest stumbles a bit (just before they cross the street). Not significant I guess, but something I didn't notice before.
Interesting you mention that. I noticed right before she passes the man/woman standing there waiting for the boy, the black strap is not visible and then when she walks by him/her you see the black strap.
Sometimes it helps to watch these videos again and again just in case there's something missed. :smile:
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 10:33 AM
Anybody get this station and give us a recap of what Rodney has to say?
Rodney Stafford on 570 News
570 News Kitchener | Thursday, May 14th, 2009 6:00 am Kitchener - He re-lives April 8th every day.
It's now been 5 weeks since 8-year-old Victoria Stafford disappeared from outside her Woodstock school. Her father Rodney says it's been a very trying time but the family is still holding out hope the little girl will return home. He made his comments in Toronto last night where a vigil was held in Victoria's honour.
Stafford will appear on 570's Jeff Allan show this morning.
http://www.570news.com/news/local/more.jsp?content=20090514_054510_9040
THanks for the link n/t! Rodney is LIVE as I type! Interesting listening, hope you are all tuned in!
He said there are things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about and that in his opinion the LE are doing a great job!
Did anyone else catch that?? Im sorry what I typed is not word for word, maybe someone else caught it too.
He's gone down the hall to the little boys room, they are getting him another coffee and his sticking around for alittle bit so if you aren't there, get there. Well that is only if you have nothing better to do.
:)
THanks for the link n/t! Rodney is LIVE as I type! Interesting listening, hope you are all tuned in!
He said there are things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about and that in his opinion the LE are doing a great job!
Did anyone else catch that?? Im sorry what I typed is not word for word, maybe someone else caught it too.
He's gone down the hall to the little boys room, they are getting him another coffee and his sticking around for alittle bit so if you aren't there, get there. Well that is only if you have nothing better to do.
:)
Thanks for tuning in and any info is very much appreciated. Unfortunately, I don't get that station!
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 10:37 AM
They are inviting Tara to come to the station anytime to do an on-air interview as well.
She's been invited to sit in the chair Rodney is currently sitting in.
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 10:38 AM
Thanks for tuning in and any info is very much appreciated. Unfortunately, I don't get that station!
click the LISTEN LIVE button in the top right hand corner of the page on the link you sent!!!
days of yore
05-14-2009, 10:38 AM
ya, I'm having difficulty getting it, too. Any recaps would be appreciated! :)
click the LISTEN LIVE button in the top right hand corner of the page on the link you sent!!!
I don't have sound at work and that's why when the conferences are on, I have to wait until I get home to listen to it. I wish they could record this interview and re air it later!!
Are they taking calls from the public?
days of yore
05-14-2009, 10:45 AM
I don't have sound at work and that's why when the conferences are on, I have to wait until I get home to listen to it. I wish they could record this interview and re air it later!!
Are they taking calls from the public?
OOoooo...got it to work. Yep, they're taking calls from the public and asking specific questions.
One was about Rodney's thoughts on the limo ride and his response was "to be honest, I wasn't impressed".
We're at commercial...
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 10:45 AM
the phone number is 1-800-570-5715 taking calls for a few more minutes...
not available from my area :(
OOoooo...got it to work. Yep, they're taking calls from the public and asking specific questions.
One was about Rodney's thoughts on the limo ride and his response was "to be honest, I wasn't impressed".
We're at commercial...
I wonder he means by that? Did he elaborate? Thanks for giving us updates
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 10:51 AM
Q: What are you more frustrated with?
A: Lack of honesty of the people in woodstock because someone out there knows something and they are not ocming forward rodney goes on to referring to all the activity around the school at that time of day and that nobody is coming forward - it impossible that nobody saw anything
Q: When you speak to media beside your ex peppered with question generally you are there but you are like the guy with all the manners, not the first to speak, if they point at you will a bit but do you feel like you want to jump in i know i've seen it in your face?
A: There have been a number of times where i wanted to say something and if it comes to a point where the subject goes to friends or something else i just try to bring it back to tori
Q: What about the limo ride? Is there really someone offering up money? has there been a demand for ransom?
A: NO ransom, I don't know about trip, i found about the trip 2 days after the trip to be honest i wasnt impressed
Q: Yesterday nobody was there for PC?
A: I got ahold of a few members of media the night before, i had a friend from public school pass away on monday so i was to be at a funeral but tara was to be there, as to why she wasn't i'm unaware.
north-eh
05-14-2009, 11:00 AM
My favourite response from Rodney was when a caller asked about psychic tips and how he feels about those. Rodney said "everyone has usual information, I am willing to listen."
This was a great interview.
I wasn't able to help with the interview because my typing is the pits, sorry.
Let's see if Tara takes up the invite and does one herself.
N
days of yore
05-14-2009, 11:02 AM
I wonder he means by that? Did he elaborate? Thanks for giving us updates
no, i think he's being very careful about his wording...
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 11:10 AM
Q: why won't anyone reveal results of lie detector to clear up finger pointing?
A: The first thing the tell you is your results. i had a disturbing time with the genetleman who did the test i felt guilty cuz i stayed at school that day so i felt guilty for not being there for tori when she got out of school so i failed the first question admitedly because he felt guilty because I opted to stay at school to catch up on stuff I was behind on, I was to get them after supper and then got the the call that tori was missing
Q: What about the other half - she came out and said she didn't pass or fail - she was upset?? Did she go back?
A: I have no idea
Q: Were you disappointted with AMW that night, not much air time, 9 seconds?
A: I was thkning about that I was kinda discouraged in a way that they didn't even show the video but they did show a canadian case and her picture that was well more than enough the more i thought about it cus it's an American show and they did throw in this Canadian case.
Q: What about psychics?
A: Everyone has useful info i'll willing to listen in anyone if it will get my daughter back
Q: What else can we do - posters, flyers, money....?
A: Darren got has dog back, someone had got the dog back for him i 'm unaware of who, something tara and evereybody else on her side would know...But flyers posters and stuff like that all i ask is if there is posts or mailboxes with them on - that are damaged by rain please re-post them, help me keep her face out there
Q: Is there a central number to ask for pictures, do you get them from the police?
A: i dont really want to hand out my phone number but i think you can get them from OPP stations, go online have them printed off thru different sites and there are lots of different posters out there an d thank you everybody. I said I'm going to keep his promise to victoria this time and bring her home....a father and his daughter is like a mother with her first born son!
[He's off air now - back to Regular broadcasting.]
no, i think he's being very careful about his wording...
Yah I got that sense from reading the replies you all posted. He's right about someone knowing something and is not speaking up. What puzzles me is why doesn't Rodney speak to school officials? Someone there must've seen something. What about talking to the parents of the children who were picked up that day?
I wonder if LE interviewed any of the children?
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 11:13 AM
A father & his daughter is like a mother with her first born son!
virgogal
05-14-2009, 11:16 AM
Thanks so much Tarabull! I just caught the last couple of minutes! Rodney IS keeping his word and it seems he is doing anything and everything he can to help bring her home!
Now, if only Mum would do the same......SIGH!
north-eh
05-14-2009, 11:17 AM
A father & his daughter is like a mother with her first born son!
Yes, I caught that too. Wasn't that an interesting choice of words?
N
Gugug
05-14-2009, 11:22 AM
Count me in! Gugug, you wanna beer, too!!! ;)
Yes, please. Oh, I suppose that won't sit well with my migraine. Just one mug won't hurt...
Orleaner12
05-14-2009, 11:23 AM
Thank you so much guys for the update and info from the radio interview with Rodney this AM...:thumbup: it was appreciated.
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 11:24 AM
Yes, I caught that too. Wasn't that an interesting choice of words?
N
I hope this comes out right >> I think it is interesting for me - mostly because Tara (still) has Darren, her first born son.
Sorry but my mind does seem to work in a weird weird way.
It sounds like Darren was/is still VERY involved with his kids. Maybe someone was (overly) jealous of that.
Wow!
Great to hear there is more going on then we are aware of.
I wonder if Tara and Rodney are allowed to know what the police are working on.
If they don't, thats understandable,
.. but if they do, it makes me wonder why Tara always says there has been nothing new reported from the police? She could just say "Yes, we do have new information that leaves us hopefull, but we are not able to disclose that info with the media."
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 11:32 AM
Wow!
Great to hear there is more going on then we are aware of.
I wonder if Tara and Rodney are allowed to know what the police are working on.
If they don't, thats understandable,
.. but if they do, it makes me wonder why Tara always says there has been nothing new reported from the police? She could just say "Yes, we do have new information that leaves us hopefull, but we are not able to disclose that info with the media."
We all know that for some people De Nile is NOT just a river in Egypt.
She's saying there's nothing because deep down I feel she's hoping for nothing.
Of course this is only IMO.
north-eh
05-14-2009, 11:33 AM
I hope this comes out right >> I think it is interesting for me - mostly because Tara (still) has Darren, her first born son.
Sorry but my mind does seem to work in a weird weird way.
It sounds like Darren was/is still VERY involved with his kids. Maybe someone was (overly) jealous of that.
Yes I understand what you are saying and I wondered the very same thing myself...I got the impression and this is just me that Tara was closer to Daryn than Tori. I have no way of knowing this of course but just from the way she talks, I thought so.
I think there is a whole other side here that will come out as time goes on and I don't think some are going to like it.
I wondering now if there will be a presser today. I apologize if Rodney said there was, I just didn't hear it.
N
I think girls tend to be closer to their dads and sons to their moms. Not saying that's the case with everyone but it's something I've noticed in a lot of families.
There can be some friction with moms and daughters and I've seen that a lot too especially in the teenage years.
virgogal
05-14-2009, 11:43 AM
Yes...that was quite a statement. My first thought was ???? Then, it dawned on me that he could be alluding to favouritism on TM's part. On the other hand...I hear from mother's of sons that the bond is quite intense and that boys are often VERY protective of their mothers.
As a mother to a daughter I simply can't imagine there being a fiercer love...but I hear it can be true!!
north-eh
05-14-2009, 11:45 AM
I was glad too to hear Rodney address the LD questions we all seem to have, at least for himself. IMO he was honest from the beginning and knows that there are many questions out there unaswered and is of course frustrated himself because he doesn't have the answers.
He says that he can't answer some questions about Tara but I'm wondering if he has the answers already and can't say.
The OPP are working behind the scenes, THAT in itself was encouraging to hear but of course it just leads to more questions.
N
north-eh
05-14-2009, 11:47 AM
I think girls tend to be closer to their dads and sons to their moms. Not saying that's the case with everyone but it's something I've noticed in a lot of families.
There can be some friction with moms and daughters and I've seen that a lot too especially in the teenage years.
Yes I agree I guess sometimes I read too much into things when I shouldn't. I'm old enough to know better too. LOL!
N
Yes I agree I guess sometimes I read too much into things when I shouldn't. I'm old enough to know better too. LOL!
N
I have 2 boys (now men) so no clue how I'd be as a mom of a girl.
I guess I'll have to deal with DIL one day. :huh:
LOL
Gugug
05-14-2009, 11:58 AM
I believe you were the one who brought up the question of prosecuting a murder charge without a body.
Let's hope that is not the case, but...
We know that there have been guilty verdicts in such cases. It takes a lot of investigative effort and evidence in to prove that someone is dead when there is no body. In the case of Abraham Cooper, there was blood on Cooper's clothes and in his vehicle and office. Given a history of conflict between Cooper and Dr. Snider, this was only enough for a manslaughter conviction. So, there was physical evidence and motive, but not enough for a murder charge.
Could this perhaps be part of the reason for the public's frustration with investigators? They must tread very carefully and build a significant file of interviews with witnesses, find other evidence and establish a motive if they attempt to prosecute a murder charge without a body.
Let's hope that this is not the case. Let's hope that they are simply doing what they do: getting enough evidence to make charges (whatever and whomever) stick. And number one, to find Tori.
As the relative of a person who went missing in Ontario, I can say that the OPP was very thorough and professional in its investigation. I laud their efforts and consideration for the family.
days of yore
05-14-2009, 11:59 AM
Yes...that was quite a statement. My first thought was ???? Then, it dawned on me that he could be alluding to favouritism on TM's part. On the other hand...I hear from mother's of sons that the bond is quite intense and that boys are often VERY protective of their mothers.
As a mother to a daughter I simply can't imagine there being a fiercer love...but I hear it can be true!!
I've heard this statement lots of times, too, but wondering how one can truly compare the strength of their feelings towards a son with someone who has only a daughter. Personally, I think it proably has more to do with being a first born. IMHO, as I think over all of the first borns (with siblings), they tend to be the more reserved of the bunch. In my case, probably due to being overprotective with the first child and then loosening up as the years go by with other children... dunno.....:shrug:
juliekan
05-14-2009, 12:04 PM
Thanks so much Tarabull!
I'm relieved to hear that at least Rodney feels LE is doing a good job. :thumbup:
virgogal
05-14-2009, 12:18 PM
I've heard this statement lots of times, too, but wondering how one can truly compare the strength of their feelings towards a son with someone who has only a daughter. Personally, I think it proably has more to do with being a first born. IMHO, as I think over all of the first borns (with siblings), they tend to be the more reserved of the bunch. In my case, probably due to being overprotective with the first child and then loosening up as the years go by with other children... dunno.....:shrug:
You are probably right about that Days of Yore...When mine was a newborn an over-enthusiastic neighbour reached out to take her from my arms and I had a VICERAL protective reaction! It surprised even myself! I realized what was happening and let her hold the baby...but I'll never forget that feeling!
I'd imagine if I had had a second or a third...I'd be CALLING the neighbours asking if the'd please hold the baby for a bit! :laugh:
days of yore
05-14-2009, 12:21 PM
You are probably right about that Days of Yore...When mine was a newborn an over-enthusiastic neighbour reached out to take her from my arms and I had a VICERAL protective reaction! It surprised even myself! I realized what was happening and let her hold the baby...but I'll never forget that feeling!
I'd imagine if I had had a second or a third...I'd be CALLING the neighbours asking if the'd please hold the baby for a bit! :laugh:
HAHAAHAH!!! You are hilarious!! :lol:
north-eh
05-14-2009, 01:03 PM
I believe you were the one who brought up the question of prosecuting a murder charge without a body.
Let's hope that is not the case, but...
We know that there have been guilty verdicts in such cases. It takes a lot of investigative effort and evidence in to prove that someone is dead when there is no body. In the case of Abraham Cooper, there was blood on Cooper's clothes and in his vehicle and office. Given a history of conflict between Cooper and Dr. Snider, this was only enough for a manslaughter conviction. So, there was physical evidence and motive, but not enough for a murder charge.
Could this perhaps be part of the reason for the public's frustration with investigators? They must tread very carefully and build a significant file of interviews with witnesses, find other evidence and establish a motive if they attempt to prosecute a murder charge without a body.
Let's hope that this is not the case. Let's hope that they are simply doing what they do: getting enough evidence to make charges (whatever and whomever) stick. And number one, to find Tori.
As the relative of a person who went missing in Ontario, I can say that the OPP was very thorough and professional in its investigation. I laud their efforts and consideration for the family.
Good post and I totally agree. It's obvious we do things differently in this country with regards to an investigation but I have always had faith in our LE and I think as you do that just because we aren't privey to what they know, although I wish we were in most cases, we are on a need to know bases.
On the flip side, I always need to know.
N
virgogal
05-14-2009, 01:03 PM
Welcome Kittymama!! :smile:
Gugug
05-14-2009, 01:04 PM
Getting back to the lie detector test...
I don't know if you've ever had one, but I did, as a condition of employment. Prospective employees are treated the same as criminals for these things, in part because the people who run private companies that do this are often retired police officers. They might also be filtering out possible criminals, which is the whole point of the thing.
It isn't fun. Is it supposed to be? The people doing the tests try to be confrontational and in your face. They are watching your physical reaction on their monitors. I think any normal person would find it disconcerting. If you are normal, you will have a normal reaction. They know what that is.
It's not just about the data. They observe you. They watch your face. They know what they are looking for. If they don't get the reaction they're after, they'll try harder. I imagine they would record the whole thing, in the case of a criminal investigation.
So there you go.
virgogal
05-14-2009, 01:05 PM
my bold
Questions, we have lots. Answers, not so much.
The biggest question?
Where is Tori?:rose:
Time for some truth serum!
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 01:14 PM
Time for some truth serum!
or a good swift kick in the arse with a frozen muckluck !!
virgogal
05-14-2009, 01:16 PM
:laugh: Tarabull!!
Orleaner12
05-14-2009, 01:25 PM
I am totally convinced that the person in the video was Tara and if indeed it was and she is responsible for this, then she most likely had some outside help.. It is the short time frame that puzzles me..how could she conceal Tori and where between 3:32 and 6PM when the grandmother went to the police station. Also as per Tara they had gone to the school and met a police officer before that so that leaves a very short time span IMO...thus my thoughts on outside help and who better to be in on it than someone very close to her. I don't think it was her very best friend Sara though, although she may have confided in her.......as I said previously, it seems that Tara was cleaning house...first Tori and then the dog....I did read today on some newspaper, London Free Press I think, that a reporter knocked on door yesterday and only heard a dog barking, so I guess the poor dog is home...
juliekan
05-14-2009, 01:38 PM
http://www.mogulus.com/lfpress
chat room moderator says they will live stream at 1pm today.
juliekan
05-14-2009, 02:36 PM
PC today (my audio stank, so I just gleaned a little bit, sorry)
Where was Tara yesterday?
I had no energy or strength to come out here.
Were you at home?
No I "ran away from home" for the day. (sorry I have to interject a:cursing:)
(later she said she didn't know how to let the press know she would not be home)
She talks about all the positive, wonderful e-mails she receives, but then later starts complaining about all the negativity getting to her, "people have no compassion," and "people are so rude."
They asked about the webkinz doll that Rodney said was missing this am on the radio. Audio was bad, so I missed that answer, but sounds like he had that part wrong? Tara said it is a penguin. Reporters ask if anything is missing from the house and they say no.
Tara addresses questions about if she stays in touch with her mom. She says there is not a close relationship with her mom.
Rodney begs for tips from the public "There HAS to be tips out there."
After PC, Tara brings out family picture for press to see, the brings the dog out front (couldn't hear what was said the dog was barking the whole time)
Early in the PC, Tara said something like "people watch these lies and then go on FB", when she was talking about the PCs daily and people commenting on her hair, sunglasses etc. Surely I heard that wrong...
PC today (my audio stank, so I just gleaned a little bit, sorry)
Where was Tara yesterday?
I had no energy or strength to come out here.
Were you at home?
No I "ran away from home" for the day. (sorry I have to interject a:cursing:)
(later she said she didn't know how to let the press know she would not be home)
She talks about all the positive, wonderful e-mails she receives, but then later starts complaining about all the negativity getting to her, "people have no compassion," and "people are so rude."
They asked about the webkinz doll that Rodney said was missing this am on the radio. Audio was bad, so I missed that answer, but sounds like he had that part wrong? Tara said it is a penguin. Reporters ask if anything is missing from the house and they say no.
Tara addresses questions about if she stays in touch with her mom. She says there is not a close relationship with her mom.
Rodney begs for tips from the public "There HAS to be tips out there."
After PC, Tara brings out family picture for press to see, the brings the dog out front (couldn't hear what was said the dog was barking the whole time)
Early in the PC, Tara said something like "people watch these lies and then go on FB", when she was talking about the PCs daily and people commenting on her hair, sunglasses etc. Surely I heard that wrong...
She ran away from home? Good grief. This woman needs to watch how she words things. :scared:
I thought her mom was the one who went to the police station to report Tori missing and now she's saying they don't have a close relationship? Her mom was with her when her daughter went missing!
Thanks for the recap!
Orleaner12
05-14-2009, 02:59 PM
oh oh..Tara slags off her Mother.....not nice..mentioned they don't phone or contact each other even with this going on about Tori... I think Tara slips out some piece info daily just to sit back and read the (NEGATIVITY)...(her favourite word daily) on sites in order to create controversy and then brings them up with her next PC... the (NEGATIVITY) ha.. bothers her more than the fact Tori is missing...she dwells on it IMO...Tori is second...as Rodney says..forget about it....I see she thinks this should go global now.....hmmmm a bit of the McCann me thinks.....I wish that they would hold these PC's at Rodney's and see if Tara turns up...:glare:
Gugug
05-14-2009, 03:02 PM
but is this the infamous heart necklace? If so, TM wore it long before the psychic's post:
http://www.lfpress.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?x=galleries&s=gallery&p=2984&pg=17
That's Sara at Tara's side, correct?
but is this the infamous heart necklace? If so, TM wore it long before the psychic's post:
http://www.lfpress.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?x=galleries&s=gallery&p=2984&pg=17
That's Sara at Tara's side, correct?
Yes that's Sara.
I don't know anything about a heart necklace or a psychic. :shrug:
virgogal
05-14-2009, 03:21 PM
The necklace was mentionned on psychic Christine Hamlett's blog about Tori's disappearance
www.christinehamlett.com/
doctor_J
05-14-2009, 03:28 PM
Good Afternoon everyone. Thanks so much for the radio interview recap of Rodney this am. I am interested in hearing more from him away from Tara. I get the feeling he's having to walk on eggshells. I'm assuming she has custody. He feels a lot of guilt as any father would if unable to protect his child and even more because, as he admitted, he hasn't been the best father. And then there's the child support thing that might make him feel like he doesn't have as much parental rights as Tara. Thia man is hurting.
There are cracks between the 2 parents that are widening. That's probably a good thing. The bolder and more outspoken Rodney gets, the better. I think he may be afraid she is involved and may hurt her if he's not very careful.
Thanks for all the answers on the convictions without a body in Canada.
OMG! The same old complaining from Tara. :cursing:
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 03:31 PM
for those that missed it:
http://www.mogulus.com/lfpress
Domino
05-14-2009, 03:31 PM
Hi All....this case has been driving me crazy. Something dawned on me today that may or may not shed some light on something. Tori was only reported missing at 6 pm and the abduction occurred at 3pm. For arguments sake...if this was all orchestrated...that would give the people involved roughly 3 hours to get out of town. Not knowing the area around Woodstock...if you drove anywhere from 2- 3 hours out of town...where would you be?
doctor_J
05-14-2009, 03:36 PM
About the Psychic stuff, can I, for once, express my opinion without offending anyone????:thumbdown:
These people are NOT HARMLESS. They consume enormous LE resourses with their endless dreams and visions and "feelings". They are CON artists and bilk millions of gullible people out of their hard earned money and take advantage of desperate people who will grasp at anything.
IF you think you are having prophetic dreams or "visions" or talking to dead people, I can recommend some medication that can help you with that,,,,jmo.
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 03:45 PM
Hi All....this case has been driving me crazy. Something dawned on me today that may or may not shed some light on something. Tori was only reported missing at 6 pm and the abduction occurred at 3pm. For arguments sake...if this was all orchestrated...that would give the people involved roughly 3 hours to get out of town. Not knowing the area around Woodstock...if you drove anywhere from 2- 3 hours out of town...where would you be?
Great question!!!!! I immediately think of one place you could be - and as per google:
Driving directions from Woodstock to Toronto Pearson International Airport, Canada
123 km – about 1 hour 19 mins
shucks you could be parked, boarded a plane & long gone
(domestic flights within canada need to only check-in 1 hour in advance).
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 03:51 PM
Domino, I think you could hit Toronto, possibly NY through Niagara Falls. I failed Geography miserably, though, so even though I am originally from TO, I could be off.
SHUCKS! another great point - and as per google:
Driving directions from Woodstock to Niagara Falls, ON, Canada
154 km – about 1 hour 44 mins
SO you could be already across the border & in the US within the 3 hours - no problemo!
Great question!!!!! I immediately think of one place you could be - and as per google:
Driving directions from Woodstock to Toronto Pearson International Airport, Canada
123 km – about 1 hour 19 mins
shucks you could be parked, boarded a plane & long gone
(domestic flights within canada need to only check-in 1 hour in advance).
I wonder if LE checked all flights out that day. I know it's probably a lot of data but well worth it.
I think you still have to show ID for domestic flights. Is that correct?
Domino
05-14-2009, 03:53 PM
My thinking around the distance theory is lets say this was set up by TM for custody or other reasons...she planned to get Tori out with other people obviously...If I was to do that I would wait to get a confirmation that they had arrived wherever they were hiding her before calling the police. Does that make sense?
SHUCKS! another great point - and as per google:
Driving directions from Woodstock to Niagara Falls, ON, Canada
154 km – about 1 hour 44 mins
SO you could be already across the border & in the US within the 3 hours - no problemo!
Passport required. Surely, they'd have a record of her at the border crossing.
I still think she's in Woodstock.......or may be in Alberta.
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 03:55 PM
I wonder if LE checked all flights out that day. I know it's probably a lot of data but well worth it.
I think you still have to show ID for domestic flights. Is that correct?
YES, photo ID, but I have no idea about travelling with children (we are DINKS - Double Income No Kids) rotflma but SERIOUSLY - we are.
:tonguewag:
(it's that or DILDO's - Double Income Loved Dogs Only)
Doctor J, I completely agree. I mean no offense to anyone, but when I see people taking them so seriously, and see the so-called psychics out there at a time like this looking for publicity, it actually makes me angry. There is a million dollar prize awaiting anyone who can prove their psychic abilities. So far there have been nothing but excuses as to why no one's passed the test. Click here (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html) to see what I'm talking about.
I agree. Money is better spent hiring a private detective, imo!
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 04:08 PM
One could also cross the Canada / US Border at Sarnia within that 3 hour timeframe - and, as per google:
Driving directions from Woodstock to Sarnia, ON, Canada
154 km – about 1 hour 40 mins
Domino
05-14-2009, 04:11 PM
I think they are particularly picky about children crossing the border. Don't think it would be wise for them to attempt that. My feeling...is that she's still in Ontario but far from Woodstock. Does anyone know whether the son is Tori's brother or step brother?
juliekan
05-14-2009, 04:12 PM
doctor_J, I think people have been blessed with a gift of foresight (that's not the right word, I know). I tend to call it "gut feeling". Most of us have those feelings and are fortunate to listen to them, they are not often wrong.
"Psychics" on the other hand, in my limited experience, are gifted with the ability to manipulate facts to suit their purpose. They prey on the weak, frightened, and easily misled, soley for monetary gain and publicity.
All jmo.
Last Fri. nite I dreamed all night about some man, who knows the family(per the dream), holding Tori somewhere outside of Woodstock. I could draw you a picture of his face. BUT, I'm not going to bother the authorities with my little "revelation". :lol:
Orleaner12
05-14-2009, 04:13 PM
the only financial lost that Tara would incur if say there was a custody battle would be a reduction in her Mother's allowance, if that is what she is living on...I would say if there were a custody battle it would be between Tara and her Mother not Rodney...if this is what Tara has done...hidden Tori it will all be found out eventually and she will be charged...personally I don't think that is what happened...I think something has happened to Tori, maybe in a fit of anger and she is gone, baby gone.....:sad:
I think they are particularly picky about children crossing the border. Don't think it would be wise for them to attempt that. My feeling...is that she's still in Ontario but far from Woodstock. Does anyone know whether the son is Tori's brother or step brother?
bio brother. Tara and Rodney's son.
Domino
05-14-2009, 04:18 PM
part of the reason I have a hunch on the custody theory is because of something she blurted out in a press conference about why would she protect one child and not the other...no had mentioned anything about "protecting" in the conference and then oddly the tape has been edited. Something was removed right after that then resumed. Has anyone seen that?
I wonder if the children have life insurance.
Domino
05-14-2009, 04:21 PM
ok...so much for my theory...anyone else have any theories? What I find intriguing is the hugely popular notion by many people is that she is somehow involved. I've heard things about connections to biker gang trials and drug debts. It gets to the point where you don't know what to believe.
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 04:22 PM
Found this:
For travel FROM Canada, TO the U.S.A., a new law went into effect in January 2007 that requires a passport for entry by air into the U.S.
Regulations that require a passport for entry to America by land or sea from Canada will go into effect as of June, 2009.
No passport is required for U.S. citizens entering Canada directly from the U.S. by land, sea, or air. The Canadian government has announced no plans to change this.
Government-issued photo I.D. (such as a driver's license) is sufficient for entry from the U.S. into Canada, however since you need a passport to get back into the U.S., most airlines won't board you for a flight to Canada from the U.S. without one.
Still not sure what the deal is with crossing the border with children - and moreso, how does someone cross the border with a child that's not their own?!?!?!?
hmmmmmmmm, anyone know? (just for curiousity sake)
:confused:
doctor_J
05-14-2009, 04:23 PM
Last Fri. nite I dreamed all night about some man, who knows the family(per the dream), holding Tori somewhere outside of Woodstock. I could draw you a picture of his face. BUT, I'm not going to bother the authorities with my little "revelation". :lol:
Good for you. I've only been on MB's a few months but I can't tell you how many times in many cases I've seen posters that report they had a dream or saw what some "psychic" posted on a scam blog and CALLED THE TIP LINE. The tip lines must be clogged with that carp. If you spend your day obscessively reading and posting about a case, is it "psychic" to dream about it that night? I think not.
Don't even get me started on Sylvia Brown and John Edwards. Why would they be interested in proving their abilities to science and claiming a $1,000,000 prize when they can make so much more with their confidence schemes?
part of the reason I have a hunch on the custody theory is because of something she blurted out in a press conference about why would she protect one child and not the other...no had mentioned anything about "protecting" in the conference and then oddly the tape has been edited. Something was removed right after that then resumed. Has anyone seen that?
No I didn't notice that. I do remember her saying why protect Tori and not Daryn.....very odd statement indeed but she's made a few of these "slip ups" in the press conferences.
Maybe we should have a separate thread with all of these unusual statements or comments to see if there is a clue somewhere.
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 04:28 PM
ok...so much for my theory...anyone else have any theories? What I find intriguing is the hugely popular notion by many people is that she is somehow involved. I've heard things about connections to biker gang trials and drug debts. It gets to the point where you don't know what to believe.
Lots of people discredit the drug debt theory...but I do think of Cole Puffinburger - mind you he wasn't taken from school & did make it back home after being dropped off by the kidnappers on the street in a Vegas neighbourhood. (and he wasn't gone 5 long weeks)
http://www.amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=60214
Domino
05-14-2009, 04:28 PM
Its to wonder just how much the police know and aren't revealing. I just pray to God that she comes out of this alive. Seems to be so much bs around this whole thing. All the speculation has to be fueled by something.
Found this:
For travel FROM Canada, TO the U.S.A., a new law went into effect in January 2007 that requires a passport for entry by air into the U.S.
Regulations that require a passport for entry to America by land or sea from Canada will go into effect as of June, 2009.
No passport is required for U.S. citizens entering Canada directly from the U.S. by land, sea, or air. The Canadian government has announced no plans to change this.
Government-issued photo I.D. (such as a driver's license) is sufficient for entry from the U.S. into Canada, however since you need a passport to get back into the U.S., most airlines won't board you for a flight to Canada from the U.S. without one.
Still not sure what the deal is with crossing the border with children - and moreso, how does someone cross the border with a child that's not their own?!?!?!?
hmmmmmmmm, anyone know? (just for curiousity sake)
:confused:
They need parental consent. If the parent is not the custodial parent, they must have a letter by the other parent with a phone number where they can be reached. I'm sure this would apply to family members as well (aunt, uncle, cousin, etc)
This happened to my boss last year. They wouldn't let him through without his son's mom (boss ex wife) permission.
The child needs a photo ID or passport.
Orleaner12
05-14-2009, 04:30 PM
at the moment you can cross over to the states via auto with a drivers licence with picture and your birth certificate...same applies for child only birth certificate for them...flying to the states an adult needs a passport but the child only birth certificate...in June all of the above changes....even flying throughout Canada one still requires photo ID and the child birth certificate or photo ID..... the only people that can pass through the border without either are those of Indian status and I think they have a special lane and pass on their auto...I have seen them pass through many times and it is rather quickly...never have I seen them stopped and a head count done........
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 04:31 PM
Found this:
If Only One Parent or Legal Guardian Is Traveling
Although a parent or legal guardian traveling alone with a child to Canada does not need a notarized letter granting the absent parent or guardian's permission for the trip, you might want to take along a signed letter just in case. Legally separated and divorced parents should carry a copy of the document that details the legal custody arrangements. Single parents can also show official documentation to prove there is no other parent (such as a birth certificate that does not list a father).
If You Are Not the Parent or Legal Guardian
Whether you are a grandparent, aunt, cousin, or family friend traveling with a child, you should take a letter signed by the child's parents or guardians that grants you permission and includes the details of the trip (flights or itinerary with dates), along with the address(es) and phone number(s) of the parents.
You might also consider taking a medical treatment authorization letter in case the child needs medical care during your trip.
http://travelwithkids.about.com/lw/Travel/North-America-and-Caribbean/Crossing-Borders-with-Children-Canada.htm
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 04:32 PM
at the moment you can cross over to the states via auto with a drivers licence with picture and your birth certificate...same applies for child only birth certificate for them...flying to the states an adult needs a passport but the child only birth certificate...in June all of the above changes....even flying throughout Canada one still requires photo ID and the child birth certificate or photo ID..... the only people that can pass through the border without either are those of Indian status and I think they have a special lane and pass on their auto...I have seen them pass through many times and it is rather quickly...never have I seen them stopped and a head count done........
BOLDING WHAT JUMPS OUT AT ME....
:scared:
Domino, I think you could hit Toronto, possibly NY through Niagara Falls. I failed Geography miserably, though, so even though I am originally from TO, I could be off.
Lizziegirl, Toronto, yeah maybe, but I don't think she could get into Niagara Falls or the US within one hour. (If it was implied Tara did it, she would have had to be there and back, so it cuts the timeline down because she would have had to go back and forth.)
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 04:34 PM
New Documentation Requirements
The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) is the implementation plan for Section 7209 of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorist Protection Act of 2004. It requires generally that all travelers into the United States must be documented with a passport or other WHTI designated document. The first phase began in January, 2007 and affected those entering by air.
Beginning January 31, 2008, verbal declarations of citizenship (or Indian status) alone is no longer acceptable as proof of citizenship (or status) at any U.S. land-border and seaport Port of Entry. The Indian Affairs Canada card (INAC) and Tribal Enrollment cards, with an affixed photo, as well as any duly-issued attestation to 51% Indian blood (accompanied by a government-issued photo ID such as a driver's license or Provincial Health Card,) will be accepted and will serve as an identity document for all Native American Indians. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has been, and continues to work with the various tribal organizations in both the U.S. and Canada to develop an identification that will be WHTI compliant.
The final phase, affecting those entering by land or sea, will go into effect at a date to be announced, but no later than June, 2009. Both DHS and the Department of State are aware of the concerns of American Indians regarding changes resulting from implementation of the WHTI.
http://www.consular.canada.usembassy.gov/first_nations_canada.asp
Gugug
05-14-2009, 04:37 PM
SHUCKS! another great point - and as per google:
Driving directions from Woodstock to Niagara Falls, ON, Canada
154 km – about 1 hour 44 mins
SO you could be already across the border & in the US within the 3 hours - no problemo!
And here we get to the Indian angle. I asked why it seemed so important that Tara mentioned her friend's Ojibway heritage, and that her brother lived on an Indian reserve in Bassano (okay, that appears not to be true).
If there are connections to the shady underworld thrown in on top of all this, wouldn't it be relatively easy to hide a child in a shipment of contraband cigarettes, for example, and cross that border unseen?
This is wild conjecture and conspiracy theory all thrown into one, but anything is possible in this increasingly bizarre story. Maybe.
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 04:39 PM
Lizziegirl, Toronto, yeah maybe, but I don't think she could get into Niagara Falls or the US within one hour. (If it was implied Tara did it, she would have had to be there and back, so it cuts the timeline down because she would have had to go back and forth.)
What if Tara was not the transporter??? It is totally feasbile. (check google)
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showpost.php?p=13103880&postcount=201
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showpost.php?p=13103941&postcount=209
Orleaner12
05-14-2009, 04:42 PM
what a great route to Alberta....drive to Buffalo...follow I90 across and enter into Alberta....no worries about alerts etc. from OPP or RCMP......cuts off all the distance going the northern route through Ontario......
Gugug
05-14-2009, 04:42 PM
I wonder if LE checked all flights out that day. I know it's probably a lot of data but well worth it.
I think you still have to show ID for domestic flights. Is that correct?
Interesting you mention that. A story today showed that they did just that in the case that is going on with a certain gang. I would think it would be logical in this case, too. However, with all the names and hyphens, which name would it be?
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 04:43 PM
And here we get to the Indian angle. I asked why it seemed so important that Tara mentioned her friend's Ojibway heritage, and that her brother lived on an Indian reserve in Bassano (okay, that appears not to be true).
If there are connections to the shady underworld thrown in on top of all this, wouldn't it be relatively easy to hide a child in a shipment of contraband cigarettes, for example, and cross that border unseen?
This is wild conjecture and conspiracy theory all thrown into one, but anything is possible in this increasingly bizarre story. Maybe.
We may have just figured out the answer to at least one of our questions that being with TARA WHY.........??????????? :confused:
Domino
05-14-2009, 04:43 PM
I don't think TM would not been the transporter. That would have been too risky and besides which she would have needed a really strong alibi...does anyone know where she was that day?
Gugug
05-14-2009, 04:44 PM
what a great route to Alberta....drive to Buffalo...follow I90 across and enter into Alberta....no worries about alerts etc. from OPP or RCMP......cuts off all the distance going the northern route through Ontario......
People driving from eastern Canada to the west and vice versa often cut through the U.S. to do so. It's apparently faster.
I did mention on Monday that Cluny is close to Highway 24. That is the back road from the U.S. border to Calgary/Trans Canada Highway. Highway 24 also leads to Aldersyde, a place truckers know. And, it is a road where hard-core bikers can be seen taking Sunday drives when the weather is nice. There are plenty of fields, with crops.
Orleaner12
05-14-2009, 04:48 PM
We may have just figured out the answer to at least one of our questions that being with TARA WHY.........??????????? :confused:
okay...can you explain this.....I have a mental block at the moment:confused:
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 04:49 PM
People driving from eastern Canada to the west and vice versa often cut through the U.S. to do so. It's apparently faster.
I've done the drive both ways - and as usual, as per google:
Driving directions from Woodstock via USA to Cluny, Wheatland County, AB
3,163 km – about 1 day 8 hours
Driving directions from Woodstock NOT via USA to Cluny, Wheatland County, AB
3,236 km – about 1 day 11 hours
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 04:52 PM
And here we get to the Indian angle. I asked why it seemed so important that Tara mentioned her friend's Ojibway heritage, and that her brother lived on an Indian reserve in Bassano (okay, that appears not to be true).
If there are connections to the shady underworld thrown in on top of all this, wouldn't it be relatively easy to hide a child in a shipment of contraband cigarettes, for example, and cross that border unseen?
This is wild conjecture and conspiracy theory all thrown into one, but anything is possible in this increasingly bizarre story. Maybe.
We may have just figured out the answer to at least one of our questions that being with TARA WHY.........??????????? :confused:
okay...can you explain this.....I have a mental block at the moment:confused:
key word there "MAY"
and you decide
to each their own perception
my mind goes places some people have never been. LOL
we are brain storming here no???? if NO, forgive me, i'm out.
Domino
05-14-2009, 04:53 PM
I just checked and its a 2600 kms to Alberta from Woodstock. Whoever was involved would not likely want to risk the chance of coming across a road block. I firmly believe that if this was all orchestrated, they would have arrived safe and sound at their destination before the police were called.
Interesting you mention that. A story today showed that they did just that in the case that is going on with a certain gang. I would think it would be logical in this case, too. However, with all the names and hyphens, which name would it be?
Well......there would've had to have been an airline ticket issued to a Victoria Stafford. As far as I know, that's her only name. She's not a McDonald per Tara at one of the PC's.
Gugug
05-14-2009, 04:54 PM
About the Psychic stuff, can I, for once, express my opinion without offending anyone????:thumbdown:
These people are NOT HARMLESS. They consume enormous LE resourses with their endless dreams and visions and "feelings". They are CON artists and bilk millions of gullible people out of their hard earned money and take advantage of desperate people who will grasp at anything.
IF you think you are having prophetic dreams or "visions" or talking to dead people, I can recommend some medication that can help you with that,,,,jmo.
You mean that time Sylvia Browne told the Hornbecks on Montel Williams' show that their abducted son was dead, and he was later found alive was a bad thing?
Found this:
For travel FROM Canada, TO the U.S.A., a new law went into effect in January 2007 that requires a passport for entry by air into the U.S.
Regulations that require a passport for entry to America by land or sea from Canada will go into effect as of June, 2009.
No passport is required for U.S. citizens entering Canada directly from the U.S. by land, sea, or air. The Canadian government has announced no plans to change this.
Government-issued photo I.D. (such as a driver's license) is sufficient for entry from the U.S. into Canada, however since you need a passport to get back into the U.S., most airlines won't board you for a flight to Canada from the U.S. without one.
Still not sure what the deal is with crossing the border with children - and moreso, how does someone cross the border with a child that's not their own?!?!?!?
hmmmmmmmm, anyone know? (just for curiousity sake)
:confused:
Afternoon Tara et all,
I live in the Niagara Falls area, and have travelled "across the borer" a few times. As a kid, when I went with my parents, (keep in mind, I'm in my 20's, so this wasn't THAT long ago..)
When we went across once to go to a theme park, my older brother (I think was around 16 at the time), brought his then girlfriend. Getting into the states was no problem. If we had photo id (either passport or drivers licence) then we used that, if we were too young to drive, we used our birth certificates. The border (police?) would ask us each what our citizenship was, we all replied individually "Canadian".
No problem, all he/she did was check to make sure our ID all said the same city, and we were off to the theme park.
However, getting back into Canada was a different story. (And for some reason always has been for me.)
They gave us a hard time because we were there for the day, and had nothing to declare. (For those that are unaware, they ask you that because if you purchased anything from the US, you are required to pay duty for it.) We told them all we had was a few stuffed animals we won from the theme park, and they didn't believe us.
Bam - we get to go into secondary searching. Awesome!.. not.
I don't remember much of that, I think I was only 12 at the time. They gave us a very hard time becuase my brothers girlfriend was with us. They said they didn't believe she was with us before, etc. (And she obviously was, plus.. she was our neighbour!)
They were just generally upset for no reason, which we later were told that we should have had a written note from the girlfriends mother saying she was allowed to go over.
Recently, my brother ordered new some shiny new corner lenses for my car, and his business partner was going to their mailbox thingie in the states to pick it up. (It's cheaper for them to pick it up and pay the duty then pay for shipping to Canada..) The border "police" (I'm not sure what they are called..) made my bro's business partner tear apart his whole interior. By the time it was back together, he went to his mailbox, and the office was closed. He went to go back, and they did the same thing. Out went his interior. :thumbdown:
(Got the new corner lenses the next day, they look great!) hahaha..
I guess I'm just trying to say, generally, the police at the border are suspicious of everyone. They aren't biased. They'll take you in for questioning if your 12 of if your 30-40 with an 8 year old with you.
They USUALLY ask so many questions, but who knows what could have happened.
Another point I have, is that is someone did bring her through one of the 4 bridges in the Niagara area..
Three of the bridges are controlled. (Meaning there are people "manning" who goes over. The other bridge is the Nexus bridge. No hasseling. (Generally.) People can apply for the Nexus card, and go back and forth often, for up to 5 years. (When you'd have to renew it.)
For more info on Nexus see here: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/nexus/menu-eng.html
So, to conclude this big reply..
I can't see Tori going over the bridges that have border police. Nexus, maybe. I'm not saying either is possible or impossible, it's JMO.
Gugug
05-14-2009, 04:55 PM
Well......there would've had to have been an airline ticket issued to a Victoria Stafford. As far as I know, that's her only name. She's not a McDonald per Tara at one of the PC's.
But if she looks like someone else, say, a cousin who is the same age, how would anybody know for sure? KWIM?
Domino
05-14-2009, 04:56 PM
...only thing though...as TM said, why would she "protect" her daughter and not her son...and moreover what was she protecting her from???
Gugug
05-14-2009, 04:57 PM
key word there "MAY"
and you decide
to each their own perception
my mind goes places some people have never been. LOL
we are brain storming here no???? if NO, forgive me, i'm out.
I believe we are brainstorming.
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 04:59 PM
Afternoon Tara et all,
SNIPPED....So, to conclude this big reply..
I can't see Tori going over the bridges that have border police. Nexus, maybe. I'm not saying either is possible or impossible, it's JMO.
Is more possible or impossible then that she was on a plane somewhere in the sky between Toronto and let say >> Cluny, Alberta before the call went out that she was missing???
Just curious....
I also wanted to add, one of the psychics wrote on their website saying something abotu Tori being able to see the word "Oxford", and that it may have been a road sign.
There is a road not far from Woodstock that I usually drive part of to visit family in London area.
The psychic could have found that info anywhere.
JMO.
Gugug
05-14-2009, 05:01 PM
...only thing though...as TM said, why would she "protect" her daughter and not her son...and moreover what was she protecting her from???
That is the question: motive?
I harken back to that neighbor who was interviewed at the beginning of all this. He said he saw TM leaving her house crying every day. Was this before the abduction? What caused those tears? She did have some family members die recently, as we have been told.
Domino
05-14-2009, 05:01 PM
I've heard that she has a family member who is testifying in the Bandito trials...could this be a way for the Bandito's to ensure that this person suffers a convenient amnesia while on the stand?
Domino
05-14-2009, 05:02 PM
That is the question: motive?
I harken back to that neighbor who was interviewed at the beginning of all this. He said he saw TM leaving her house crying every day. Was this before the abduction? What caused those tears? She did have some family members die recently, as we have been told.
Interesting...would love to know the answer to that one
Is more possible or impossible then that she was on a plane somewhere in the sky between Toronto and let say >> Cluny, Alberta before the call went out that she was missing???
Just curious....
Sorry Tarabull, I'm not sure what you were asking, can you re-phrase that? :wub:
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 05:02 PM
But if she looks like someone else, say, a cousin who is the same age, how would anybody know for sure? KWIM?
I've been surfing thru pictures of Tori around the net looking for shots of her with other kids, hoping to see someone that looks like her...
same hair colour even.....
so far nothing, but I'm sure there are plenty of pics out and about...which is why I keep my peepers peeled but still no one resembling Tori.
If anyone comes across anything - be sure and share OK TEAM?
:thumbup:
Domino
05-14-2009, 05:04 PM
I've been surfing thru pictures of Tori around the net looking for shots of her with other kids, hoping to see someone that looks like her...
same hair colour even.....
so far nothing, but I'm sure there are plenty of pics out and about...which is why I keep my peepers peeled but still no one resembling Tori.
If anyone comes across anything - be sure and share OK TEAM?
:thumbup:
yeah and another thing I would like to see is a video clip of TM walking...
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 05:08 PM
Sorry Tarabull, I'm not sure what you were asking, can you re-phrase that? :wub:
Do you think it's possible then that someone (nobody inparticular) took her from Woodstock, drove to Toronto Airport (1 hr 40 mins drive) borded an domestic flight to Calgary and then drove with her to Cluny???? (obviously without being caught)
IN OTHER WORDS:
Do you think that senerio is more believable than someone driving cross to the US and then back into canada with Tori on their way to Cluny - only using cluny as the example since their were sightings of her there oh wait no there wasn't, it was someone grasping at straws saying they thought someone looked like her???
I need a drink - anyone care to join me? Patron & lime perhaps? or good old fashioned spiced rum, coke & lime? ANYONE???
Again, i'm just curious - what anyone thinks is more possible.
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 05:09 PM
my bold.
We are indeed, tara. Even if we're off track, and we won't know until we know, we're doing something constructive.
I'm glad you're back.:wub:
For the record, I couldn't leave, I"M SO HOOKED....and i do like to brain storm especially in a group....
cheers everybody!
lol
Domino
05-14-2009, 05:10 PM
Do you think it's possible then that someone (nobody inparticular) took her from Woodstock, drove to Toronto Airport (1 hr 40 mins drive) borded an domestic flight to Calgary and then drove with her to Cluny???? (obviously without being caught)
IN OTHER WORDS:
Do you think that senerio is more believable than someone driving cross to the US and then back into canada with Tori on their way to Cluny - only using cluny as the example since their were sightings of her there oh wait no there wasn't, it was someone grasping at straws saying they thought someone looked like her???
I need a drink - anyone care to join me? Patron & lime perhaps? or good old fashioned spiced rum, coke & lime? ANYONE???
Again, i'm just curious - what anyone thinks is more possible.
I'm in!...make mine a double
Orleaner12
05-14-2009, 05:12 PM
that statement from Tara..."why would I protect Tori and not the son"..that bothered me but after mulling it around I now wonder, considering how she is always going on about FB and what people write about her that maybe she meant that as an answer to someone saying that she was in a custody battle or Tori was being abused by someone and Tara has hidden Tori ...in other words she was protecting her....as someone mentioned she always seems to jump into an answer or nod her head before a reporter is finished with his question...
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 05:12 PM
yeah and another thing I would like to see is a video clip of TM walking...
WELL domino, you can bet the LE have that on tape....the day Tori disappeared wasn't the ONLY day the camera was rolling.
I'm thinking they've likely examined it thoroughly.
See I never would have put that together if YOU didn't say hey, I'd sure like to see THAT!
WE ARE really fart smellers, ME especially...lol ooops i mean smart fellers. :wub:
(and for the record I'm not a fella/feller but it had to be a feller to be a smeller tee hee)
Domino
05-14-2009, 05:14 PM
If you were kidnapping a girl or involved in staging a kidnapping...wouldn't you take the path of least resistance? I would gamble that they took her somewhere between Woodstock and Kingston
on our side of the border. Like I said, equivalent to the distance covered in 2 or 3 hours tops...beyond that it would have been way too risky.
Domino
05-14-2009, 05:18 PM
that statement from Tara..."why would I protect Tori and not the son"..that bothered me but after mulling it around I now wonder, considering how she is always going on about FB and what people write about her that maybe she meant that as an answer to someone saying that she was in a custody battle or Tori was being abused by someone and Tara has hidden Tori ...in other words she was protecting her....as someone mentioned she always seems to jump into an answer or nod her head before a reporter is finished with his question...
You could be right Orleaner...hadn't considered that. I'd have to go back and see if there was anything that prompted that response from her.
But if she looks like someone else, say, a cousin who is the same age, how would anybody know for sure? KWIM?
Ahhh ok gotcha!
Orleaner12
05-14-2009, 05:19 PM
If you were kidnapping a girl or involved in staging a kidnapping...wouldn't you take the path of least resistance? I would gamble that they took her somewhere between Woodstock and Kingston
on our side of the border. Like I said, equivalent to the distance covered in 2 or 3 hours tops...beyond that it would have been way too risky.
at that time of the day it would have been hell on the 401 east towards Kingston...I still say someone will find Tori, only it will by chance...like walking their dog.......:sad:
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 05:19 PM
If you were kidnapping a girl or involved in staging a kidnapping...wouldn't you take the path of least resistance? I would gamble that they took her somewhere between Woodstock and Kingston
on our side of the border. Like I said, equivalent to the distance covered in 2 or 3 hours tops...beyond that it would have been way too risky.
With regard to the path of least resistance, have you driven from Ontario to Alberta via Canada, once you leave Toronto area, there's not much of anything in terms of resistance.
Speaking of resistance - how long was it until they issued Tori's Amber Alert? Of course, I'm looking it up but in the meantime....Anyone know???
Great discussion today!! Leaving work and will check in from home! :thumbsup:
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 05:20 PM
at that time of the day it would have been hell on the 401 east towards Kingston...I still say someone will find Tori, only it will by chance...like walking their dog.......:sad:
ITA, or a farmer preparing his fields - like any day now.....
Domino
05-14-2009, 05:21 PM
With regard to the path of least resistance, have you driven from Ontario to Alberta via Canada, once you leave Toronto area, there's not much of anything in terms of resistance.
Speaking of resistance - how long was it until they issued Tori's Amber Alert? Of course, I'm looking it up but in the meantime....Anyone know???
No idea about the timing...and no, I've never driven it. Is anyone here a Mom?
doctor_J
05-14-2009, 05:21 PM
key word there "MAY"
and you decide
to each their own perception
my mind goes places some people have never been. LOL
we are brain storming here no???? if NO, forgive me, i'm out.
I still don't get it. If you have a theory of "Tara...WHY?" then just spit it out. I quess I'm just dense. :confused:
Gugug
05-14-2009, 05:23 PM
Sorry Tarabull, I'm not sure what you were asking, can you re-phrase that? :wub:
Is it likely/possible Tara was long gone before she was reported missing?
Assuming she is farther away than Ontario:
1. A plane would be faster. Airports have video cameras, and lots of them. But apparently Tori has been confused with her cousin, who is the same age, and similar in appearance, according to her mother. Some people in Alberta have spotted her. But was it her? And who were those people? Is this investigative strategy in action (i.e. throw the perps off-track, so they let down their guard?)
2. A car would be less likely, unless someone crossed the border under special status. And if they crossed and didn't cross back.
3. We have heard of human smuggling in cargo trucks. Are trucks with regular routes checked thoroughly every trip across the border?
The most likely thing? Who knows.
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 05:23 PM
Great discussion today!! Leaving work and will check in from home! :thumbsup:
Can't wait! We'll be here with your after work cocktail ready & waiting!
And dinners already on too, if that makes life better ;)
Come along Tori, we are all here waiting for YOU too!!! (and your shirley temple is waiting - obviously no alcohol I'm a good role model honest)
Domino
05-14-2009, 05:23 PM
ITA, or a farmer preparing his fields - like any day now.....
I pray that you are both wrong...
Orleaner12
05-14-2009, 05:24 PM
With regard to the path of least resistance, have you driven from Ontario to Alberta via Canada, once you leave Toronto area, there's not much of anything in terms of resistance.
Speaking of resistance - how long was it until they issued Tori's Amber Alert? Of course, I'm looking it up but in the meantime....Anyone know???
well from what I have read the police were alerted at 6PM by Tara's mother but the media didn't hear about it until 3AM...someone please correct if this is not correct...I didn't think an Amber alert was issued at all, at least not at that time as there was no info to go on..
Domino
05-14-2009, 05:26 PM
Just wondering for those of you who have kids...how long would you wait before reporting your child missing?
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 05:27 PM
Is it likely/possible Tara was long gone before she was reported missing?
Assuming she is farther away than Ontario:
1. A plane would be faster. Airports have video cameras, and lots of them. But apparently Tori has been confused with her cousin, who is the same age, and similar in appearance, according to her mother. Some people in Alberta have spotted her. But was it her? And who were those people? Is this investigative strategy in action (i.e. throw the perps off-track, so they let down their guard?)
2. A car would be less likely, unless someone crossed the border under special status. And if they crossed and didn't cross back.
3. We have heard of human smuggling in cargo trucks. Are trucks with regular routes checked thoroughly every trip across the border?
The most likely thing? Who knows.
There are a tonne of possibilites but is there a common thread in most? hmmmmmmmmmm, who can say. Perception is a funny thing eh team?
Gugug
05-14-2009, 05:28 PM
No idea about the timing...and no, I've never driven it. Is anyone here a Mom?
There was no amber alert, because police said there was no evidence of abduction. That is one of the conditions. In fact, they delayed declaring her missing as well. Does that tell you something?
Driving across the country with a child is a pleasure that mothers know well. It's a long trip, but it is possible, with stops and treats. This is the less likely possibility. But what if they didn't go far, or what if the child was sleeping?
Brainstorming...
Orleaner12
05-14-2009, 05:30 PM
one thing I did wonder at the time re video...I know it was a few weeks after we "sprung ahead" but I wondered if the clock on the video changed by itself or did someone have to manually change it...thus instead of 3:32pm it was actually 4:32pm....it didn't seem to be a lot of kids around that video for that time of day......
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 05:32 PM
Did you all know Tori made snopes.com?
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/missing/stafford.asp
So after she disappeared on April she was classifed as a missing person until April 24th when it was reclassified as an abduction - which is when the Amber Alert was issued....
still looking for the ACTUAL Amber Alert notice.
doctor_J
05-14-2009, 05:32 PM
I think Tara has had to account for all her time from 3:30 until 6. Surely she would have planned an alibi. Traveling by car takes gas, that means seeing people up close if you're going with cash and credit card trails, well, we all know about that. I think planes are out for many reasons, not the least of which is money. Tara doesn't have it.
IF she is being held it is probably very close, in the property of a conspirator. Shannon Matthews was held 24 days in the bottom of a bed less than 1 mile from her home. The step-dad's uncle and her mom and other family members were involved.
Unfortunately, I think it's been too long for such a conspiracy to stay hidden. I think her body was disposed of close to home very soon after the famous video.
We need a meter reader to find her.:crying:
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 05:34 PM
snipped..... But what if they didn't go far, or what if the child was sleeping?
Brainstorming...
i'm reading your mail.....a "sleeping" child could wind up anywhere.
Domino
05-14-2009, 05:34 PM
There was no amber alert, because police said there was no evidence of abduction. That is one of the conditions. In fact, they delayed declaring her missing as well. Does that tell you something?
Driving across the country with a child is a pleasure that mothers know well. It's a long trip, but it is possible, with stops and treats. This is the less likely possibility. But what if they didn't go far, or what if the child was sleeping?
Brainstorming...
that so irritates and frustrates me...really what would it have cost them to issue an alert
tarabull1
05-14-2009, 05:36 PM
snipped....We need a meter reader to find her.:crying:
I pitty the meter reader (etc...) but I THINK it's gonna take someone like that to find her.
(dog walker, meter reader, farmer, bottle picker, highway cleanup crew, kids exploring....)
Orleaner12
05-14-2009, 05:37 PM
that so irritates and frustrates me...really what would it have cost them to issue an alert
in order to issue an amber alert they need to know particular info in order to feed it in an alert...ie: licence # of auto or colour of car or name of a person that could be involved......they had none of these at the time...not sure how soon they found the video info.....
Domino
05-14-2009, 05:39 PM
so many questions...so few answers...:confused:
Domino
05-14-2009, 05:40 PM
in order to issue an amber alert they need to know particular info in order to feed it in an alert...ie: licence # of auto or colour of car or name of a person that could be involved......they had none of these at the time...not sure how soon they found the video info.....
but they still don't have any of that info...
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