Too broke for the ER, patients flee

[daniel green]

Even as rising unemployment strips people of health insurance, sending many to emergency departments for care, doctors on the front lines say the lingering recession is also prompting an unexpected outcome.
More patients, they say, are refusing potentially costly procedures ranging from tests to confirm heart attacks to overnight stays to monitor dangerous infections. “I have definitely seen an increase in this problem,” said Dr. Sara L. Laskey, who works in the emergency department of MetroHealth Medical Center in Cleveland, Ohio. “They’re really making conscious decisions about what they do and don’t want done.” Just last month, Laskey saw a woman with bronchitis and pneumonia with life-threatening oxygen levels who refused hospital admission because she had no insurance. Even when Laskey arranged for her to have an oxygen kit to take home, the woman turned it down because of the cost. “She refused, saying she would share her husband’s oxygen,” Laskey said. “Ultimately she left without the oxygen or an admission.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30628634/

[TBIBeg]

Those types of sacrifices were unheard of 10 - 15 years ago. .

That's bunk IMO.

Part of the problem is that my parents generation was willing to make sacrifices to carry health coverage. Today, too many people figure they will walk into an ER for treatment if they really need it and never worry about paying the bill.

Families should consider the expense of health care to be just as important as food, clothing and shelter IMO.

i see a lot of families that put new cars, new homes and toys much higher on their 'necessity' list than they do healthcare.

[theal3]

We have to to health care undercontrol and costs down, for the common good, IMHO, public health is very important to raising families and have productive, energetic workers, and health neighbors and friends. To me it's a natiional security issue, too. Healthy people for all kinds of important work in our country.

[emdragon]

U R Welcome.

I doubt they'll be read, too...but one can always hope.

They don't want to read that, since 2001, the cost of family coverage from an employer climbed by almost 80 percent, compared with only a 24 percent rise in workers' earnings.

1.9-2.2 million Americans annually file for medical bankruptcy. That means every 30 seconds someone new is forced to contend with the double whammy of medical and financial catastrophe.

Most of those who filed for medical bankruptcy were middle-class homeowners who had been to college and had responsible jobs.

Three-quarters of the medically bankrupt had health insurance.


http://public-healthcare-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/medical_bankruptcy_epidemic#ixzz0FDtWqzOK&B


I guess what you fail to see is that the problem is people have to choose between FOOD and Health care.

[YoYo]

That's bunk IMO.

Part of the problem is that my parents generation was willing to make sacrifices to carry health coverage. Today, too many people figure they will walk into an ER for treatment if they really need it and never worry about paying the bill.

Families should consider the expense of health care to be just as important as food, clothing and shelter IMO.

i see a lot of families that put new cars, new homes and toys much higher on their 'necessity' list than they do healthcare.

ITA :patriot:

[emdragon]

Where is this happening?

Not where I live.



imo

You are not serious are you?
It is happening everywhere. Go visit some senior centers and ask them how much money they have left for food on a fixed income after paying for their health care and medications.

Then go visit some folks living on minimum wage and ask them the same thing.

How many parents do you think go without health care so their kids don't have to?

Absolutely unbelievable to me that anyone would try and deny and pretend this isn't a serious problem and even worse is that anyone would try justify it.

[TBIBeg]

You are not serious are you?
It is happening everywhere. Go visit some senior centers and ask them how much money they have left for food on a fixed income after paying for their health care and medications.

And you think that universal healthcare is going to provide them anything better than what Medicare provides them now? Dream on.

[emdragon]

And you think that universal healthcare is going to provide them anything better than what Medicare provides them now? Dream on.

I think pretending what we have now is working is just burying your head in the sand.
Maybe you are one of those people who figure you have what you need so everyone else can suffer.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Even as rising unemployment strips people of health insurance, sending many to emergency departments for care, doctors on the front lines say the lingering recession is also prompting an unexpected outcome.
More patients, they say, are refusing potentially costly procedures ranging from tests to confirm heart attacks to overnight stays to monitor dangerous infections. “I have definitely seen an increase in this problem,” said Dr. Sara L. Laskey, who works in the emergency department of MetroHealth Medical Center in Cleveland, Ohio. “They’re really making conscious decisions about what they do and don’t want done.” Just last month, Laskey saw a woman with bronchitis and pneumonia with life-threatening oxygen levels who refused hospital admission because she had no insurance. Even when Laskey arranged for her to have an oxygen kit to take home, the woman turned it down because of the cost. “She refused, saying she would share her husband’s oxygen,” Laskey said. “Ultimately she left without the oxygen or an admission.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30628634/

Sounds to me like she wasn't broke enough. jmo

[Lady_Jean_La]

ITA :patriot:

Yes. it is obvious. :thumbup:

[Lady_Jean_La]

You are not serious are you?
It is happening everywhere. Go visit some senior centers and ask them how much money they have left for food on a fixed income after paying for their health care and medications.

Then go visit some folks living on minimum wage and ask them the same thing.

How many parents do you think go without health care so their kids don't have to?

Absolutely unbelievable to me that anyone would try and deny and pretend this isn't a serious problem and even worse is that anyone would try justify it.

Don't the seniors have Medicare?

[emdragon]

Don't the seniors have Medicare?

Do you think Medicare is free? Are you aware of how high the costs of medications are?


[QUOTE]ohioguy44138
Quote:
Originally Posted by emdragon
I guess what you fail to see is that the problem is people have to choose between FOOD and Health care.
Excuse me?????????????? [QUOTE]

What part of my post don't you understand?

[daniel green]

Sounds to me like she wasn't broke enough. jmo

Unbelievable. :ohmy:

[emdragon]

http://feedingamerica.org/faces-of-hunger/hunger-101/senior-hunger.aspx

28.7 percent of client households with seniors indicated that they have had to choose between food and medical care and 31 percent had to choose between food and paying for heat/utilities.

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:tJtxNx-PyVUJ:www.ksl.com/%3Fnid%3D148%26sid%3D5248578+choosing+between+food +or+health+care&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a



Seeing your doctor for preventive care may keep you from getting seriously ill later on. But financially, some people are having to make choices between food and the elective health care.

http://degette.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=467:-degette-delivers-health-care-speech&catid=76:press-releases-&Itemid=227

“Ladies and gentlemen, no mother or father should ever have to feel like a failure because they can’t care for their children. No child should ever go without medical attention because their parents have to choose between food and health care. And no nation should—and certainly not the wealthiest in the world—should tolerate it.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Do you think Medicare is free? Are you aware of how high the costs of medications are?


[QUOTE]ohioguy44138
Quote:
Originally Posted by emdragon
I guess what you fail to see is that the problem is people have to choose between FOOD and Health care.
Excuse me?????????????? [QUOTE]

What part of my post don't you understand?

I thought Medicare was very reasonable. I am unaware everyone has high medication costs.

jmo

[theal3]

Don't the seniors have Medicare?

Yes, we do. And we pay a premium every month. And while working money was taken out of paycheck each month, like SS, for medicare.

You qualify at age 65, and it comes out of the SS check. It covers about 80% of costs, and it has deductibles for the year; the prescription drug add on, cause the primium to triple since put in effect a few years ago, and not all is covered, so seniors I know, if they can afford it buy a supplemental for around $200 a month; the prescription part HAS to be with a supplemental who covers that. So with the SS premium taken out each month, and the supplemental you choose, the cost each month is about $300 a person and that does not include dental or vision. Medicare doesn't cover dental or vision, and if you want it, you get it through your supplemental. Which we do not, we just got supplemental for what Medicare doesn't cover and for prescription. For the two of us, still pay about $600 a month, and still get bills, as there are deductibles for medicare and the supplementals.

[daniel green]

http://feedingamerica.org/faces-of-hunger/hunger-101/senior-hunger.aspx



http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:tJtxNx-PyVUJ:www.ksl.com/%3Fnid%3D148%26sid%3D5248578+choosing+between+food +or+health+care&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a





http://degette.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=467:-degette-delivers-health-care-speech&catid=76:press-releases-&Itemid=227


Thanks for the facts, em.

I thought everyone knew that. :ohmy:

From the op:
About 21 percent of people discharged against advice had no insurance, compared to about 7 percent of routine discharges, according to AHRQ.

[daniel green]

Yes it is sad.

snipped

It's just totally unbelievable.

It 1) did not make any sense and 2) wow.

I am so sorry that you are going through that, Reaper, as an American family.

It is my hope that this administration corrects that.

[emdragon]

[QUOTE=emdragon;13092916]Do you think Medicare is free? Are you aware of how high the costs of medications are?


[QUOTE]ohioguy44138
Quote:
Originally Posted by emdragon
I guess what you fail to see is that the problem is people have to choose between FOOD and Health care.
Excuse me??????????????

I thought Medicare was very reasonable. I am unaware everyone has high medication costs.

jmo

If your comment wasn't so absurd it would almost be funny.
Have you not had to go to the pharmacy lately?

My mother is on Medicare- it isn't free and while her prescriptions are discounted she still pays hundreds- yes HUNDREDS of dollars a month on her medications and her only medical conditions are high cholesterol and COPD. Call your local pharmacy and ask them how much medications like Advair (which has no generic alternative) cost.

With my insurance Advair was a tier 2 med. That means they pay 50% which is still $100 and that is per month. (I had to switch to a different lower cost medication that doesn't work as well)

With Medicare my mother and I take the same medication Flo-vent my insurance pays most of the cost for that one I pay $10 with Medicare for the same medication she has to pay $60..

Are you starting to get it now?

[emdragon]

[QUOTE=emdragon;13092916]Do you think Medicare is free? Are you aware of how high the costs of medications are?


[QUOTE]ohioguy44138
Quote:
Originally Posted by emdragon
I guess what you fail to see is that the problem is people have to choose between FOOD and Health care.
Excuse me??????????????

What makes you think I fail to see that the problem is people have to choose between food and health care? For cripes sake..I'm trying to stand up for and defend people who can't afford health care... What is your problem?

Well your post to me was a bit confusing and read like you disagreed with me- glad to know that isn't the case. Not sure what happened but my post #34 was not suppose to be to your post. The quotes are wigging out again.

[daniel green]

Daniel as we have posted together over the months the situation is clear. Some people in no way want to except that our health care system just stinks. It is what it is. I got mine, the h@ll with you.

snipped.

There is a Cuban saying which, literally translated, means "trying to cover the sun with two fingers." You know, desperately--and, impossibly, trying to deny the obvious truth.

Thankfully, the great majority of Americans believe that all Americans deserve affordable health care and do not want our seniors, or any Americans, being without it.

You take care, Reaper. Change is here.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Yes, we do. And we pay a premium every month. And while working money was taken out of paycheck each month, like SS, for medicare.

You qualify at age 65, and it comes out of the SS check. It covers about 80% of costs, and it has deductibles for the year; the prescription drug add on, cause the primium to triple since put in effect a few years ago, and not all is covered, so seniors I know, if they can afford it buy a supplemental for around $200 a month; the prescription part HAS to be with a supplemental who covers that. So with the SS premium taken out each month, and the supplemental you choose, the cost each month is about $300 a person and that does not include dental or vision. Medicare doesn't cover dental or vision, and if you want it, you get it through your supplemental. Which we do not, we just got supplemental for what Medicare doesn't cover and for prescription. For the two of us, still pay about $600 a month, and still get bills, as there are deductibles for medicare and the supplementals.

If you pay a premium you are not broke. In some states if you are broke you can go to ER for treatment. jmo

[watcher2005]

... Some people in no way want to except that our health care system just stinks.
...


In the 18th century, guys would go around with a wagon selling cure-all's across the country side. The fact that there were sick people who bought them in desperation did not make it good for them.

What are we buying? What is the cost? (economically, and otherwise)

[daniel green]

If you pay a premium you are not broke. In some states if you are broke you can go to ER for treatment. jmo

Did you read the OP article? :confused:

Because even a cursory glance at it would show you this is not the case, that ER is free.:rolleyes:

As to the "if you pay a premium you are not broke," well that is another thing that just ain't so.

[Lady_Jean_La]

It's just totally unbelievable.

It 1) did not make any sense and 2) wow.

I am so sorry that you are going through that, Reaper, as an American family.

It is my hope that this administration corrects that.

It should be easy with Edward Kennedy leading the way, Nancy Pelosi pushing ahead and Barack Obama signing the new legislation. jmo

[Lady_Jean_La]

{{snip}}
Are you starting to get it now?

What does any of that have to do with being broke and going to ER?:confused:

[Lady_Jean_La]

Did you read the OP article? :confused:

Because even a cursory glance at it would show you this is not the case, that ER is free.:rolleyes:

As to the "if you pay a premium you are not broke," well that is another thing that just ain't so.

Where I live patients at ER are treated. jmo

[emdragon]

[QUOTE=emdragon;13093026][QUOTE=Lady_Jean_La;13092971]

No she doesn't. Never has, never will. In my opinion anyway. That's why IGGY is good.

One has to pay for Medicare supplement D also. My father had it ( thank god ), because his 7 week hospitalization ran over 500,000.00. He never made it out and died in Hospice care. The supplement and my stepmother ( who is quite a bit younger ), insurance did pick up the whole tab. Thank god because it would have bankrupted her.

Em I can get the generic Ventolin for 9.00 without insurance. Can your mom use that? I believe it's similar to Flo-Vent.

I'll have her check with her Dr on the Ventolin- it is really bizarre though because when she was taken Advair she paid less than she did for the Flo-vent... (Advair made her really hoarse)

I guess people think Medicare is handled the same in every state which it isn't- Mom paid much less in Oregon than she does here in WA.

[theal3]

Where I live patients at ER are treated. jmo

They are at many hospitals cause of hypocratic oath, "first do no harm," but the cost is passed on to those who DO have insurance, and the premiums just keep going up and up. If it's a life or death situation, they are treated, if it's not life or death, from a discussion I heard on the radio regarding the Texas area, and there are other hospitals in the area, they are sent elsewhere. Where we live, there is one hospital, often very serious cases are flown to bigger city hospitals. Our state also has program for the poor or working poor to cover care and children with a combination of federal and state taxes.

[Lady_Jean_La]

They are at many hospitals cause of hypocratic oath, "first do no harm," but the cost is passed on to those who DO have insurance, and the premiums just keep going up and up. If it's a life or death situation, they are treated, if it's not life or death, from a discussion I heard on the radio regarding the Texas area, and there are other hospitals in the area, they are sent elsewhere. Where we live, there is one hospital, often very serious cases are flown to bigger city hospitals. Our state also has program for the poor or working poor to cover care and children with a combination of federal and state taxes.

Yes, that is what I was saying but you did it much better. :thumbsup:

[snookums1]

Disprove my assertions if you feel they are wrong.

Health reform was the big talk of Hilary and Bill when he ran for POTUS.

People have always had to sacrifice one way or another when it comes to health or well-being.

JMHO Maybe in this country. That is why we rank so low compared to other industrialized nations. And people should not have to die because they cannot afford health insurance. I have been to too darn many funerals caused by just that in the last 5 years. All good people that deserved better than to die needlessly. :mad:

[watcher2005]

I wonder if those funny clouds that pop up after some airplanes pass have anything to do with so many posters with breathing problems.

[snookums1]

[QUOTE=emdragon;13093164][QUOTE=Reaper;13093079]

There is a generic available for Advair, but not for Flovent.

When a pharmaceutical company first markets a drug, it is usually under a patent that allows only the pharmaceutical company that developed the drug to sell it. In the US, drug patents give twenty years of protection, but they are applied for before clinical trials begin, so the effective life of a drug patent tends to be between seven and twelve years.

This allows the company to recoup the cost of developing that particular drug. After the patent on a drug expires, any pharmaceutical company can manufacture and sell that drug. Since the drug has already been tested and approved, the cost of simply manufacturing the drug will be a fraction of the original cost of testing and developing that particular drug. Four of the drugs that my husband and I have to take daily do not have generics. It is why my husband always falls into the donut hole every year. When that happens, if our doctor does not have samples available, he has to go without meds he needs to stay alive because our entire pension goes toward health insurance and medicare D.

[emdragon]

[QUOTE=ABC;13093170][QUOTE=Reaper;13093149]


I was given that when I had Bronchitis but since it's a cronic case yes, I should be taking some form of it. Oh well.

You are using Pro-Air if it's a red body. Ventolin works better the Pro-Air ( for me anyway ), but not as well as the old generic Albuteral. You might want to try it. Many Pharmacies will substitute either, or. The cost should be the same for both.

I have a real hard time with the Pro-Air i can't get it deep enough in my lungs so I use Maxair (Pirbuterol) but it does cost more.

part of the health care problems are the pharmaceutical companies- they know if you need the drug you will pay for it and many insurance plans don't have good prescription coverage.

[emdragon]

[QUOTE=emdragon;13093164][QUOTE=Reaper;13093079]

There is a generic available for Advair, but not for Flovent.

When a pharmaceutical company first markets a drug, it is usually under a patent that allows only the pharmaceutical company that developed the drug to sell it. In the US, drug patents give twenty years of protection, but they are applied for before clinical trials begin, so the effective life of a drug patent tends to be between seven and twelve years.

This allows the company to recoup the cost of developing that particular drug. After the patent on a drug expires, any pharmaceutical company can manufacture and sell that drug. Since the drug has already been tested and approved, the cost of simply manufacturing the drug will be a fraction of the original cost of testing and developing that particular drug.

They actually gave me Flovent as the alternative to Advair because there is no generic Advair yet- if their was I'd be using it- the Flovent is ok but does not work near as well as the Advair. But if you weigh the cost- $10 or $80 (cheapest Advair cost I found was Costco) what can you do.

[emdragon]

Is there a contest to see who can screw up quoting others the most?

you do understand that it is a board glitch right? posters are not doing it deliberately.

[emdragon]

Do these posters use "Preview"? These "glitches" are avoidable/fixable, normally I wouldn't comment on it but this is an interesting subject and these "glitches" make it very difficult to follow the thread.

I normally don't use preview- just don't think about it most of the time. But I have been trying to double check my posts this afternoon before the edit time runs out.

Not sure why but this quote thing happens every now and then.

[emdragon]

Good point.
I don't claim to have all the answers here, but I do think our current system could use some reforming. I just am not impressed with what is being proposed by the Obama admin. either. I don't think universal healthcare/socialized medicine will be all it is cracked up to be.

There is no way there will be enough doctors, nurses, facilities, monies to do it all for everyone. There will be rationing imo, and it may be all of you who seem to have breathing problems. You all have made me feel healthy - I am a good risk and won't cost anyone half as much!!
jmo

I don't understand why you feel there would be a shortage of Dr's or why in the world you would think rationing would occur and I understand even less why the comment is directed at those of us with Asthma.

Unless you are saying these shortages will occur if everyone gets care so those who can't afford it now should continue to not receive health care.

[emdragon]

[QUOTE=ohioguy44138;13093265][QUOTE=Reaper;13093208]
Why did the govrnment do that? Whats their beef against the old propellenrs?

The Ozone...

[Details]

Excerpt of Clinton's Speech from September 22,1993:

“ Millions of Americans are just a pink slip away from losing their health insurance, and one serious illness away from losing all their savings. Millions more are locked into the jobs they have now just because they or someone in their family has once been sick and they have what is called the preexisting condition. And on any given day, over 37 million Americans -- most of them working people and their little children -- have no health insurance at all. And in spite of all this, our medical bills are growing at over twice the rate of inflation, and the United States spends over a third more of its income on health care than any other nation on Earth. ”


Sound familiar to what Obama is spinning?

Deja Vu:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan


http://www.fff.org/freedom/0194c.asp



JMHOIt's the truth - and the truth doesn't change. We spend more, for less, than anywhere else. Why? Because of bloated insurance companies, a patchwork system, uninsured people unable to get the cheaper preventative care instead end up either dead or so sick they need a ton of expensive emergency care.

That's why Obama sounds the same - the truth doesn't change.

[Details]

Why didn't the Dems fix it then? They had a chance to save these millions and just what did they do?

JMOWhat did they do? They tried to fix it. And were stopped. With Republican funded Harry and Louise scare tactics that continue to be quoted by opponents to health care reform, with political opposition of all kinds that has not ceased.

Now we're trying to fix it again. And if people oppose a fix because it wasn't fixed before - it could always be stopped.

[Details]

From what I've read under universal health care decisions to withhold treatment will be made based on if you smoked, overweight, age, and many other variables. People need to check out the problems others countries offering UHC have and they might not like what they see. Take Massachusetts healthcare, a model for disaster: (http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/01/massachusetts-health-care-a-model-for-disaster/)Other countries with UHC are quite happy with it. Like anything, there are areas for improvement, and like life, you don't always get everything you want. However, every single measure of health care shows they are getting far better results (lifespan, child mortality, etc.) for their fewer dollars than we are for our higher premiums.

I don't know what you've read - but I've read nothing saying health care is denied to those with other problems - age, overweight, smoker. There are medical treatments not appropriate if you have certain problems - that exists today - simple medical facts mean some treatments will not work well for patients with certain problems.

But covering services not everyone needs (as mentioned in your quote) is what health care is all about. If I never get a heart attack, is it a failing that my health insurance covers heart attacks? Is IVF appropriate? We'll need to decide that, what is and is not appropriate for standard coverage. And people whose issues aren't covered will raise a fuss - but they do that today with insurance companies that are FAR worse than the government plans, with denials for preexisting conditions meaning some people can never be covered, with denials based on profit, with denials based on some company doctor deciding without looking at your that you don't have the condition your doctors say you do.

[Details]

Great information. Thanks! :thumbsup:

I'm so happy to see our Pres. and this Adm. are going to finally overhaul our healthcare system. You know the one, where our health is big business for profit! The U.S. is the onlly industrialized country, in the world, who has a healthcare system based on profit. Yikes!

jmhoThat's a nice way to put it. Whether you live or die, how healthy you are able to be should never be based on how profitable it is to help you.

There are limits - cost-benefit analysis to be done. For an example, a group did an analysis of care, came up with their list of the top wasteful care done. At the top of the list - life support for an ancelphalic baby. A baby born without a brain, will definitely die within a few days at the longest, if given immense and expensive life support and care - and there is no brain, no person in there to hurt or feel, no chance for survival, no chance for an emotional connection with the mother - nothing. To fund that is pointless and wasteful. But we can cover most of the useful care needed by all of our citizens for less than we pay today.

I think there are options we shouldn't pay - medical insurance should cover the necessities. So, no plastic surgery (aside from fixing major deformations - accident or burn damage, birth defects, etc.), IVF, gender reassignment, etc.

But today, an uninsured asthmatic will often either die, or suffer damage to their health as they cannot afford to have standard preventative care, and have to wait for a major attack to cut off their breathing to get any treatment. Then it's rush to the hospital, huge expenses, possible death, and more bills you cannot pay, that the hospital has to eat it's expenses - when some far more inexpensive preventative care, medicine would have prevented the whole thing. It's a horrible choice, very cost-ineffective, not to mention that it kills people. So we spend more money, for a worse outcome. It's stupid.

[Details]

There are laws to assist the uninsured - but you still get charged, you can still be bankrupted by your medical costs. Yeah, they'll help you no matter what, but that doesn't eliminate the bill. So, the choice remains - food or medicine - treatment I might or might not need to survive, or bankruptcy, maybe homelessness? The middle class gets the worst of it, since we have money to go after, but not enough to pay the medical bills for a bad problem without losing everything.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Is there a contest to see who can screw up quoting others the most?I think that would be a TOS violation. jmo

[Lady_Jean_La]

you do understand that it is a board glitch right? posters are not doing it deliberately.

Funny thing because it doesn't happen to me. :confused:

[Lady_Jean_La]

Do these posters use "Preview"? These "glitches" are avoidable/fixable, normally I wouldn't comment on it but this is an interesting subject and these "glitches" make it very difficult to follow the thread.And I believe if you quote a quote incorrectly you can be banned. jmo

[Lady_Jean_La]

With regard to the first young man mentioned in the article and how he walked out of Woodhull Hospital....Baloney!

Woodhull is a city hospital and there are laws to assist the uninsured:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/87431.php

I would not be surprised if there were alternate options for the others as well.

This is just a slanted MSNBC article. :rolleyes: No surprise here.



imo

Nope, no surprise at all. jmo

[Lady_Jean_La]

There are laws to assist the uninsured - but you still get charged, you can still be bankrupted by your medical costs. Yeah, they'll help you no matter what, but that doesn't eliminate the bill. So, the choice remains - food or medicine - treatment I might or might not need to survive, or bankruptcy, maybe homelessness? The middle class gets the worst of it, since we have money to go after, but not enough to pay the medical bills for a bad problem without losing everything.

Very true, the middle class or the poor but not the broke. jmo

[Susan43]

I buy all my meds in Canada. I was so angry when they passed that gawd-awful drug bill that I refused to sign up. And if I had signed up I would actually be paying more then I do buying from Canada.

Here's the link.

http://www.canadadrugs.com/index.php?REF=Redirect/keyword=canadiandrugs.ca

[Susan43]

The benifits depend on the state and plan folks are in. lWe need no supplement in my state, including those in nursing homes. Our Senior HMO costs is covered totally by the Governments $500.00 and my $96.00 a month, and that includes the prescription plan ($3.00 for generic). We do get a dental discount with my plan, the vision test is free and completely covered with a discount for glasses. The copay is $10.00 and $20.00 for a specialist and $25.00 for the Quick Care. Can't beat it. I had brain surgery and paid not one nickel as Senior Dimensions covered the costs. No deductible either. The company was bought a year ago and now we have a $250.00 hospital stay cost.

I was kind of surprised that no one answered this post. It seems to me that you are already on a government plan.

http://www.seniordimensions.com/

I wonder if your state takes federal funds for this and why this wouldn't be good for the whole country. It sounds like you have a very good deal here and I can't imagine that you wouldn't want everyone to have such a good deal too.

[emdragon]

With regard to the first young man mentioned in the article and how he walked out of Woodhull Hospital....Baloney!

Woodhull is a city hospital and there are laws to assist the uninsured:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/87431.php

I would not be surprised if there were alternate options for the others as well.

This is just a slanted MSNBC article. :rolleyes: No surprise here.



imo

Technically everyone that goes to an ER must be treated regardless of their ability to pay or not.

BUT- Once treated the hospital does not have to admit them or cover the cost for any other tests or treatments they may need.

[20 Mule Team]

And I believe if you quote a quote incorrectly you can be banned. jmo


Not from a board fault / error. Sorry.

[Lady_Jean_La]

You bet it would be good for the country. No, just plain olde Medicare with my plan B payment. I am all for it and want it done tomorrow and supported Hillary in the nineties when she tried to help people. I see no reason why the Government can't pay $500.00 a month for every man, woman and child in America. With or without our own copay.

:thumbsup:Citizens of USA deserve it.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Not from a board fault / error. Sorry.

Good to know but I'm not sure Coldwater has time to investigate. When I see many of those, I prefer to leave so I don't get misunderstood. Confusing at best, bannable at worst. jmo

[Susan43]

You bet it would be good for the country. No, just plain olde Medicare with my plan B payment. I am all for it and want it done tomorrow and supported Hillary in the nineties when she tried to help people. I see no reason why the Government can't pay $500.00 a month for every man, woman and child in America. With or without our own copay.


It really looks terrific. I went to the website and looked around and you folks are really lucky. We don't have anything like this in WA.

I want it done tomorrow too but I'm afraid the GOP is going to throw plenty of roadblocks up, so we'll just have to see what happens. I'm with Ed that I am highly suspicious of the all the "help" the insurance companies want to give them.

[20 Mule Team]

Good to know but I'm not sure Coldwater has time to investigate. When I see many of those, I prefer to leave so I don't get misunderstood. Confusing at best, bannable at worst. jmo


Nah they were aware of it I'm sure. The error appears to have been corrected.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Nah they were aware of it I'm sure. The error appears to have been corrected.I'm glad of that.

[flareon]

And I believe if you quote a quote incorrectly you can be banned. jmo

It is usually a problem of one person making a mistake with the quote function and then everyone's post after that shows the quote function incorrectly.

It would be a good idea not to quote any post when the quote function has been messed up.

[Barbara2]

It is usually a problem of one person making a mistake with the quote function and then everyone's post after that shows the quote function incorrectly.

It would be a good idea not to quote any post when the quote function has been messed up.

Or you can fix it before you hit "submit". Usually it's a missing bracket. Someone snips a post and cuts off a bracket. That's been my experience anyway.

[Lady_Jean_La]

It is usually a problem of one person making a mistake with the quote function and then everyone's post after that shows the quote function incorrectly.

It would be a good idea not to quote any post when the quote function has been messed up.Good idea!

:thumbup:

[Brentwood]

This isn't anything new. This went on during the Clinton and Bush Administrations.

Socialized medicine is not the answer. You want it to be, but it is not going to help . JMO

Healthcare reform was tried during the Clinton admin and was torpedoed by the repubs.

So you think it is ok that so many do not have the healthcare they need. Do you mean you don't care that reform will save lives. You think it wont help because saving lives for those who do not have the means is like welfare or something, taking money out of your pocket.

You say it wont help....or do you mean it is not going to help the money in your pocket if people who need help get the help.

I so strongly disagree with you, I must put you on iggy.

[Lady_Jean_La]

It is usually a problem of one person making a mistake with the quote function and then everyone's post after that shows the quote function incorrectly.

It would be a good idea not to quote any post when the quote function has been messed up.
I was quoting post and it wasn't happening to me, that was the strange part.

[20 Mule Team]

You cannot make those statements at this point. They may your opinion, but that's all. The Health Care Reform Package is still being drafted. For anyone to try and spread fear about Health Care Reform is disingenuous, to say the least.

Why is it the right wing are so afraid of equality for all? Afraid it might cost some a bit of extra money? Good!

imho


Dead on Omega I agree!

[Lady_Jean_La]

You cannot make those statements at this point. They may your opinion, but that's all. The Health Care Reform Package is still being drafted. For anyone to try and spread fear about Health Care Reform is disingenuous, to say the least.

Why is it the right wing are so afraid of equality for all? Afraid it might cost some a bit of extra money? Good!

imho

The right wing can't stop it. Just write it, pass it and git er done. :thumbsup:

[Lady_Jean_La]

Obama talked about Health Care Reform for two years while campaigning for President and its just being drafted now? Whats up with that? I would have though the plan would have had final approval by now and ready to go into action.

I think Senator Kennedy deserves some credit too.

[emdragon]

Obama talked about Health Care Reform for two years while campaigning for President and its just being drafted now? Whats up with that? I would have though the plan would have had final approval by now and ready to go into action.

What a shame that he didn't know he would have to deal with bank failures and forclosures before he could focus on much else.

[emdragon]

I think Senator Kennedy deserves some credit too.

What a shame that Kennedy had a BRAIN TUMOR and almost died before he could get the health care plan finished and passed.

[20 Mule Team]

That's bunk IMO.

Part of the problem is that my parents generation was willing to make sacrifices to carry health coverage. Today, too many people figure they will walk into an ER for treatment if they really need it and never worry about paying the bill.

Families should consider the expense of health care to be just as important as food, clothing and shelter IMO.

i see a lot of families that put new cars, new homes and toys much higher on their 'necessity' list than they do healthcare.



Hummm. I see. Mortgage, Home and car insurance, food, gas, utilities. If it means ones home vs health insurance they can't afford I think the home expenses win every time.

Sorry I disagree and am now adding you to the Iggy list.:seeya:

[flareon]

Am I supposed to be hurt by your decision to put me on iggy? :confused:



Just consider it a badge of honor, plus it gives the small ones a chance to get attention. :biggrin:

[daniel green]

Where I live patients at ER are treated. jmo

For free, eh?

I would really suggest reading the OP article before making these kind of statements.

[daniel green]

From what I've read under universal health care decisions to withhold treatment will be made based on if you smoked, overweight, age, and many other variables. snipped

Oh, absolutely not true.

[daniel green]

Technically everyone that goes to an ER must be treated regardless of their ability to pay or not.

BUT- Once treated the hospital does not have to admit them or cover the cost for any other tests or treatments they may need.

Absolutely.

Just as in the OP article, the woman who could not afford to buy the oxygen and said she would have to use her husband's.

[Lady_Jean_La]

For free, eh?

I would really suggest reading the OP article before making these kind of statements.I read it.

[daniel green]

Healthcare reform was tried during the Clinton admin and was torpedoed by the repubs.

snipped.

Yep. And the whole thing was done wrong, to boot.

This time what was awsome was to see the very ppl who torpedoed the Clinton health care reform (shame on them) up on that stage WITH the President.

Right from the beginning.

So no torpedoes.

Not this time.

[daniel green]

Obama talked about Health Care Reform for two years while campaigning for President and its just being drafted now? Whats up with that? I would have though the plan would have had final approval by now and ready to go into action.

Oh, ABC. You made me laugh out loud with this!

[20 Mule Team]

I'm with you! I've seen that posted word for word by 3-4 posters on different threads since January. Roboposting once again!

jmho



Same here. Different story if you're on the receiving end. My opinion

[daniel green]

BO said he's going to try an lower healthcare costs. There are only so many ways you can do that. Either offer less services (rationing), which is common in socialized healthcare. Cap doctor and nurse's pay, which will result in less people going into the field. Or you force companies to lower costs of equipment and drugs, which will hurt companies and result in more lay offs.

snipped.

None of that is true. Well, with the exception of the fact that the President said he will lower healthcare costs. But the rest is just not true. Not at all.

[daniel green]

Right, Omega. Because a presidentELECT has control of the staff, and the cabinet and can make agreements with the folks he had on stage with him today (the AMA, Pharma, Hosp Assoc of America, etc) before taking office.

Truly, :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Lady_Jean_La]

The article is BS.




imo

Too cheap for the ER, patients flee would be a more realistic title. Years ago a friend of mine went to emergency and was treated, receiving a few stitches. When it was time to have the stitches removed he did it himself to save the cost. Apparently, many people do this and recently a friend received some stitches and they asked him if he wanted a suture removal kit. I removed his stitches.

In both cases the friends weren't broke, they were cheap. They didn't want to pay the costs. I think that is what the OP is about - being cheap.

[Lady_Jean_La]

You just made our point. So, since she probably CANNOT pay for the Oxygen, she shouldn't be given it, and instead, be allowed to die, if it comes to that??

Can you NOT see the problem with our Health Care system?

It doesn't get more heartless than this, folks.

jmho

What does that have to do with, Too broke for the ER, patients flee? You are talking about health system, not being broke in the ER.

jmo

[20 Mule Team]

It's a real shame but this thread is going down the tubes. Our heath care system is broken. Badly. It needs to be fixed so everyone can afford health care. Period.

Now I'm done and refuse to post any further on it.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Unfortunately, it's NOT about being cheap. We all know there are cheap people in this world, but there are a few million people in the U.S. who are not insured and can't begin to pay for medical services. They don't have the money. Period. Face it, don't try to spin the situation into a farce.
jmhoWhere I am, I can call 911 and an ambulance will come for me. I will be taken to ER and be treated. If I am broke, it is free. jmo

No spin, just fact.

[Lady_Jean_La]

It's a real shame but this thread is going down the tubes. Our heath care system is broken. Badly. It needs to be fixed so everyone can afford health care. Period.

Now I'm done and refuse to post any further on it.Not to worry. Senator Kennedy, Speaker Pelosi and President Obama will fix healthcare.

For the rich. the poor and the too broke.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Exactly!

ETA - Everyone should be insured. No question about it. But that doesn't mean that anyone has to leave an emergency room without the appropriate treatment for fear that they won't be able to pay the bill.

There's too much baloney being posted here.


imo

Exactly. I think the problem is some people are trying to turn an ER thread into a healthcare thread. jmo

[Susan43]

Cover The Uninsured

CURRENT STATISTICS

*45 Million uninsured Americans
*80% of them working family
*Last decade Premium increased 119% while worker earnings increased only 34%

http://uninsuredamerica.blogspot.com/

This website has some suggestions for the uninsured.

[MiamiNice1]

"What Happens When the Uninsured Go to the Emergency Room?

http://www.articlesbase.com/insurance-articles/what-happens-when-the-uninsured-go-to-the-emergency-room-640036.html

"So hospitals make a rational decision. They spread all the unpaid bills among those who can pay. In other words, whether you are paying out of your pocket or you are relying on your health insurance to pay for your treatment, a percentage of every hospital's bills is a provision for bad debts against the uninsured. The irony is that every insured is also insuring the uninsured for their emergency room visits."


moo
Thank you for posting the actual FACTS as they happen. The article at the beginning of the thread is nothing more than fear-mongering. Things have worked this way for ages.

Yes, there are big time problems with health care in this country - but that is NOT what the thread is about - it is about "patients fleeing from the ER."

imo

[snookums1]

Thank you for posting the actual FACTS as they happen. The article at the beginning of the thread is nothing more than fear-mongering. Things have worked this way for ages.

Yes, there are big time problems with health care in this country - but that is NOT what the thread is about - it is about "patients fleeing from the ER."

imoSo, in other words, you think it is ok that a 25 hour hospital visit I just experienced was priced at 72,000 dollars. I have insurance thankfully. But what if I did not? And then there is the little problem of having to wait in the EMERGENCY rooms for hours to be seen because people are going there for things that should be taken care of by a family physician. When I broke an arm and was in pain, I had to wait 14 hours in the waiting room of a huge hospital to be seen in a waiting room where a girl was vomiting so frequently that I, pain and all, went to a desk concerned that she might be dehydrated. Even though she came in after me, I insisted she be seen first. We have major problems with our health care. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a fool. It is something that needs to be addressed if we ever hope to be up to the standards of other industrialized countries.

[MiamiNice1]

So, in other words, you think it is ok that a 25 hour hospital visit I just experienced was priced at 72,000 dollars. I have insurance thankfully. But what if I did not? And then there is the little problem of having to wait in the EMERGENCY rooms for hours to be seen because people are going there for things that should be taken care of by a family physician. When I broke an arm and was in pain, I had to wait 14 hours in the waiting room of a huge hospital to be seen in a waiting room where a girl was vomiting so frequently that I, pain and all, went to a desk concerned that she might be dehydrated. Even though she came in after me, I insisted she be seen first. We have major problems with our health care. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a fool. It is something that needs to be addressed if we ever hope to be up to the standards of other industrialized countries.
So in other words....why are you putting all this misplaced anger of yours onto me? I never even mentioned a visit to the ER in my post and here you are, making things up. You are putting words in my mouth and it is not appreciated. In my post I said we have "big time problems with healthcare."

Who HASN'T spent HOURS and HOURS in the ER and who HASN'T spent thousands of dollars (paid by insurance)? NO ONE wants to take a trip to the ER because of those very reasons. Your situation is not special or unique.

Hopefully you'll read back on the thread and read the factual info provided about provisions to those who cannot pay. Your outrage belongs on another thread - one about HEALTHCARE.

imo

[snookums1]

So in other words....why are putting all this misplaced anger of yours onto me? I never even mentioned a visit to the ER in my post and here you are, making things up. You are putting words in my mouth and it is not appreciated. In my post I said we have "big time problems with healthcare."

Who HASN'T spent HOURS and HOURS in the ER and who HASN'T spent thousands of dollars (paid by insurance)? NO ONE wants to take a trip to the ER because of those very reasons. Your situation is not special or unique.

Hopefully you'll read back on the thread and read the factual info provided about provisions to those who cannot pay. Your outrage belongs on another thread - one about HEALTHCARE.

imo I never said my experience is unique. The fact that it is not unique IS THE PROBLEM. I cannot understand why so many people are against socialized medicine when it would be better for all of us, whether we have insurance or not. Everyone would be treated and it would cost all of us less. Why should we lag behind other countries when it comes to care for our citizens? Not one of us is any better than any other of us.

[snookums1]

That is exactly the problem, Snookums!

Unfortunately, there's a group of people that do think they're better than everyone else, and oddly, they think 'others' are not entitled to the same health care they receive. Go figure? :shrug:

jmho I have known people, hard working people, that could not afford insurance. One illness, one accident, and it was either declare bankruptcy or lose everything, including their homes. There is something very, very wrong with that. Yet, I have a daughter-in-law that was born and raised in France, rated at the top when it comes to health care, that has socialized medicine and no one ever has to experience anything like that. And when you figure the cost, it is much less than we pay for insurance.

[snookums1]

I just don't want my tax dollars going for elective surgeries or procedures, such as abortions when the mother's health is not at risk.

As far as people fleeing ERs if they really need more care, they are foolish. I have known poor that do not have to pay. One illegal alien ran up a 500,000 bill and didn't pay nor was expected to. If there is a hospital bill, they usually allow you to make payments. It's not like you have to pay upfront and they don't repossess your pace maker. Why anyone would walk away and risk serious illness or death to save a few bucks doesn't make sense. Many of us are paying on medical bills. It's not the end of the world. Well guess what, you will end up paying either by raised insurance or by having to pay for what your insurance does not cover for everyone that gets free care and it will be a heck of a lot more than if your taxes covered it.

[MiamiNice1]

I just don't want my tax dollars going for elective surgeries or procedures, such as abortions when the mother's health is not at risk.

As far as people fleeing ERs if they really need more care, they are foolish. I have known poor that do not have to pay. One illegal alien ran up a 500,000 bill and didn't pay nor was expected to. If there is a hospital bill, they usually allow you to make payments. It's not like you have to pay upfront and they don't repossess your pace maker. Why anyone would walk away and risk serious illness or death to save a few bucks doesn't make sense. Many of us are paying on medical bills. It's not the end of the world.
In Miami, those who do not have insurance (including the illegals) are sent to the ER at Jackson Memorial Hospital. The citizens of Miami voted many years back to be taxed a half of one percent MORE in taxes to support Jackson and ER care to those who do not have insurance.

The TAXPAYERS are helping foot the bill.

imo

[snookums1]

In Miami, those who do not have insurance (including the illegals) are sent to the ER at Jackson Memorial Hospital. The citizens of Miami voted many years back to be taxed a half of one percent MORE in taxes to support Jackson and ER care to those who do not have insurance.

The TAXPAYERS are helping foot the bill.

imo
That is the point I am trying to make. The way it is now, we ALL pay more. If everyone pitched in that is working and paying taxes and insurance companies were out of the equasion, we would all have better care and it would cost us all less. The number one reason so many companies are moving overseas is they do not have to provide healthcare. Where does that leave our workers?

[snookums1]

For goodness sake, elective surgeries will have to be paid for by the individual, just as they are now. I see you have an Agenda with regard to Abortion, and that's fine, but it's yours alone. It's a very controversial subject that really has no business being hashed about on a message board. Don't know why you felt the need to throw in that business about the illegal alien. Trying to make a point I guess. :shrug: jmho

Your compassion for those you cited above, is frightening, but I realize that's the right wing mentality.

Are you paying on $500,000. for medical bills? How long do you think someone will have to live to pay it off?

Do you realize that often individuals go to their Dr. and find out they need surgery, or they'll die, and they have no insurance, and they do not qualify for all those "free" services the right wing talk about. They're not poor enough. Try checking into the hospital without insurance, or a cashier's check. I can assure you that's how it works in the real world.

jmhoI have attended the funerals of friends that worked all their lives and could not afford health care insurance. They died from things that were treatable but they could not afford the treatment. It is beyond sad, it is tragic. As I stated before, anyone that thinks we have a good health care system is a fool. And what many with insurance don't realize is if they have a catastrophic accident or are diagnosed with a disease that is ongoing, or need an organ transplant or even have a heart attack that requires major surgery, their insurance will not cover all of it and they will be left with HUGE bills that most people cannot cover and they could lose everything too.

[theal3]

That is the point I am trying to make. The way it is now, we ALL pay more. If everyone pitched in that is working and paying taxes and insurance companies were out of the equasion, we would all have better care and it would cost us all less. The number one reason so many companies are moving overseas is they do not have to provide healthcare. Where does that leave our workers?

Yes, great post. It won't be free but everyone according to means an choices would have access to affordable care. IMHO, what's screwed everthing up is that the ins. companies decides medical decisions, in effect, what gets paid for or not. An ins. people make more than nurses or doctors! Especially the CEO's. I abosolutely hated when HMOs came in, in the 80s. There we were with 20 years into a job with insurance, and all of a sudden, the ins. Co, told you the ONLY Dr.s in town, you could go to. Of course you could still keep the same Dr. but it would be out of pocket etc. It was NUTS, as the Drs. or clinics "acceptable" to the the Ins. Co., then said: full, not taking anymorej patients. Well by the late 90s, the employer an state stepped in and they went back to reg. ins. but of course the premiums rose and rose and rose.

[snookums1]

It's beyond tragic! There aren't words to describe those horrific situations, of which there are many.

jmho I have a friend that had good insurance. His wife had a heart problem that required a pump that injected medication to keep her alive and healthy. It was a very costly procedure. His insurance company, they best, would not cover it. To keep her alive they divorced and she went on welfare. They paid for it out of our tax dollars. Then there is my grandson. At the age of 3 he was diagnosed with (I can't spell it) Hinocks Shalom Purpera. His blood vessels starting breaking down and he was covered with bruises. Doctors said it would advance to his organs and would be fatal. There was a new treatment for it but was very expensive and my son's insurance refused to pay for it. To keep my grandson alive, my son quit his job and went on welfare. Welfare paid for the treatment. My grandson is alive and healthy and is 24 years old today. We all pay more today, whether in insurance payments or in taxes for health care than is necessary.

[Narcissist71]

Yes, great post. It won't be free but everyone according to means an choices would have access to affordable care. IMHO, what's screwed everthing up is that the ins. companies decides medical decisions, in effect, what gets paid for or not. An ins. people make more than nurses or doctors! Especially the CEO's. I abosolutely hated when HMOs came in, in the 80s. There we were with 20 years into a job with insurance, and all of a sudden, the ins. Co, told you the ONLY Dr.s in town, you could go to. Of course you could still keep the same Dr. but it would be out of pocket etc. It was NUTS, as the Drs. or clinics "acceptable" to the the Ins. Co., then said: full, not taking anymorej patients. Well by the late 90s, the employer an state stepped in and they went back to reg. ins. but of course the premiums rose and rose and rose.

Am I wrong, but wasn't the solution supposed to be the creation of the HMOs? Sorry, that just seems to be my recollection....not sure under which Administration....

Just seems that the HMOs have added to the problem that they were to have been the solution.

Maybe someone has better recollection as to when and why HMOs were being created.

[snookums1]

Yes, great post. It won't be free but everyone according to means an choices would have access to affordable care. IMHO, what's screwed everthing up is that the ins. companies decides medical decisions, in effect, what gets paid for or not. An ins. people make more than nurses or doctors! Especially the CEO's. I abosolutely hated when HMOs came in, in the 80s. There we were with 20 years into a job with insurance, and all of a sudden, the ins. Co, told you the ONLY Dr.s in town, you could go to. Of course you could still keep the same Dr. but it would be out of pocket etc. It was NUTS, as the Drs. or clinics "acceptable" to the the Ins. Co., then said: full, not taking anymorej patients. Well by the late 90s, the employer an state stepped in and they went back to reg. ins. but of course the premiums rose and rose and rose.
Hell Theal, I have a friend that needs a heart transplant. It was refused because he is gay. Our health system sucks. He is an honest, kind human being and he has been told he has no value whatsoever and would be better off dead.

[snookums1]

Am I wrong, but wasn't the solution supposed to be the creation of the HMOs? Sorry, that just seems to be my recollection....not sure under which Administration....

Just seems that the HMOs have added to the problem that they were to have been the solution.

Maybe someone has better recollection as to when and why HMOs were being created.Any insurance company is the problem, whether HMO or not. They are all in it for the profit, not for the care of the person.

[Narcissist71]

Okay found something on the topic.....

History of HMOs (http://ezinearticles.com/?The-History-of-HMO-Plans&id=2113007)

[Narcissist71]

Any insurance company is the problem, whether HMO or not. They are all in it for the profit, not for the care of the person.

I'm not debating, just discussing......

Profit isn't necessarily a bad word.......

Eventually the insurance companies will see a decline in profit because fewer and fewer people will be able to afford care, as we are seeing today. I noticed the Insurance Companies and other Health Care Institutions went to Obama with a plan that is supposed to cut cost by $2 Trillion over the next 10 years.

Do I think some of the costs and profits to be a bit gross for these companies? Yes.

I'm not saying I don't want to see everyone covered, but I'd like to possibly find a way that does that without the government being in control.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from on that issue.

[snookums1]

Okay found something on the topic.....

History of HMOs (http://ezinearticles.com/?The-History-of-HMO-Plans&id=2113007)The friend I have that needs a heart transplant has an HMO. He lives in Pennsylvania but went to visit his family in Maryland. While there he started having chest pains and a hard time breathing. His mother tried to contact his doctor in PA but since it was a weekend could not reach him, only his answering service. It became so severe that he was transported to a hospital. They insisted on keeping him. He checked himself out after a 24 hr stay because he knew his insurance would not pay for it (he was correct) because his doctor had not authorized it. He actually drove to Pennsylvania in that condition in order to get the help he needed. Under an HMO there are only certain doctors and certain hospitals that they will cover. Any hospital visit without the authorization of the doctor they will cover will not be paid.

[Narcissist71]

The friend I have that needs a heart transplant has an HMO. He lives in Pennsylvania but went to visit his family in Maryland. While there he started having chest pains and a hard time breathing. His mother tried to contact his doctor in PA but since it was a weekend could not reach him, only his answering service. It became so severe that he was transported to a hospital. They insisted on keeping him. He checked himself out after a 24 hr stay because he knew his insurance would not pay for it (he was correct) because his doctor had not authorized it. He actually drove to Pennsylvania in that condition in order to get the help he needed. Under an HMO there are only certain doctors and certain hospitals that they will cover. Any hospital visit without the authorization of the doctor they will cover will not be paid.

Yes I had a situation like that, but under my plan since it was an emergency and I went to a hospital that was covered under my HMO they did cover it. Luckily for me. I don't know if part of the equation was that I did try to call, and did leave a message with the doctor.

And another time I didn't call the doctor, but went to the ER after being jumped....but I worked at the hospital, and they covered it, eventhough I didn't call the doctor. I was really surprised by that, because I worried for weeks that I would get a huge bill, but again I worked at the hospital and they provided my HMO plan.

Anyway, it is a shame that even when you do have Health Care Insurance that you aren't always covered. No matter what type of insurance....it gets annoying reading through a policy with all the exceptions and the addenda thinking what are they actually covering me on.

[snookums1]

I'm not debating, just discussing......

Profit isn't necessarily a bad word.......

Eventually the insurance companies will see a decline in profit because fewer and fewer people will be able to afford care, as we are seeing today. I noticed the Insurance Companies and other Health Care Institutions went to Obama with a plan that is supposed to cut cost by $2 Trillion over the next 10 years.

Do I think some of the costs and profits to be a bit gross for these companies? Yes.

I'm not saying I don't want to see everyone covered, but I'd like to possibly find a way that does that without the government being in control.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from on that issue.I understand where you are coming from but do you honestly think that any enterprise that is profit minded will think in terms of what is best for humans if it is costly? Or will do what is best for those that pay them without strict guidelines? My sister-in-law actually works for a health care insurance company. Her job entails denying doctors requests for tests they want done on their patients. Some of those tests are vital to diagnosis and treatment but her job is to deny them. I ran into that myself. My doctor wanted a CT. My insurance denied it because I had not been diagnosed with cancer. In order to get the CT I had to have 3 other invasive tests done first. None of them found the problem. Finally, my insurance company okayed the CT since my doctor was insistant. It found the problem and it was corrected. But it took the insistance of my doctor fighting the insurance company.

[snookums1]

Well that's just not true.

If you're in an HMO and fall ill in another state, you have to contact the emergency number for the HMO. There are provisions for that.



imo Sorry, but it did happen whether you believe it or not.

[Narcissist71]

Well that's just not true.

If you're in an HMO and fall ill in another state, you have to contact the emergency number for the HMO. There are provisions for that.



imo

True, I did have an emergency number....forgot about that......I think that was the issue on my first case......I didn't call the emergency number, but they ended up covering it, though it was in the same state. I just called the doctor and left a message when I was supposed to have called the emergency number if I couldn't reach the doctor.

[snookums1]

Yes I had a situation like that, but under my plan since it was an emergency and I went to a hospital that was covered under my HMO they did cover it. Luckily for me. I don't know if part of the equation was that I did try to call, and did leave a message with the doctor.

And another time I didn't call the doctor, but went to the ER after being jumped....but I worked at the hospital, and they covered it, eventhough I didn't call the doctor. I was really surprised by that, because I worried for weeks that I would get a huge bill, but again I worked at the hospital and they provided my HMO plan.

Anyway, it is a shame that even when you do have Health Care Insurance that you aren't always covered. No matter what type of insurance....it gets annoying reading through a policy with all the exceptions and the addenda thinking what are they actually covering me on. His mother did call and did leave a message and a call back number. None of that helped him. He had to pay the full cost.

[Narcissist71]

I understand where you are coming from but do you honestly think that any enterprise that is profit minded will think in terms of what is best for humans if it is costly? Or will do what is best for those that pay them without strict guidelines? My sister-in-law actually works for a health care insurance company. Her job entails denying doctors requests for tests they want done on their patients. Some of those tests are vital to diagnosis and treatment but her job is to deny them. I ran into that myself. My doctor wanted a CT. My insurance denied it because I had not been diagnosed with cancer. In order to get the CT I had to have 3 other invasive tests done first. None of them found the problem. Finally, my insurance company okayed the CT since my doctor was insistant. It found the problem and it was corrected. But it took the insistance of my doctor fighting the insurance company.

My friend works doing the same thing.....she is a registered nurse. There are sometimes that a doctor does order unnecessary tests. They are there as a check and balance against that......And just because they might initially deny test, that doesn't mean that the doctor can't contact them and explain the reasons for the test. I have no problem with a check and balance system.

*adding* Sorry that the insurance company denied it even after your doctor told of the reason. I do believe we need serious reform. *end of add*

[Narcissist71]

His mother did call and did leave a message and a call back number. None of that helped him. He had to pay the full cost.

I believe what you are saying. That is a shame, and shouldn't be happening. IMO

[MiamiNice1]

True, I did have an emergency number....forgot about that......I think that was the issue on my first case......I didn't call the emergency number, but they ended up covering it, though it was in the same state. I just called the doctor and left a message when I was supposed to have called the emergency number if I couldn't reach the doctor.
Sorry you were jumped....how awful!

I think many problems arise when people do not know how to work their plan or what to do in emergencies. As forensicpsy pointed out, there IS an EMERGENCY NUMBER to call.

There are provisions for which people simply do not or do not know how to avail themselves. (and when recounting something that happened to someone else, well, there is room for error in the telling or error in what phone number the person actually called or what the person actually did)

I also agree with your previous post about the HMOs.......this is when all the problems began.

imo

[Narcissist71]

Sorry you were jumped....how awful!

I think many problems arise when people do not know how to work their plan or what to do in emergencies. As forensicpsy pointed out, there IS an EMERGENCY NUMBER to call.

There are provisions for which people simply do not or do not know how to avail themselves. (and when recounting something that happened to someone else, well, there is room for error in the telling or error in what phone number the person actually called or what the person actually did)

I also agree with your previous post about the HMOs.......this is when all the problems began.

imo

Well that's what you get for walking from a bar/club at 2:30am intoxicated in an iffy area. Not the worst area, but I should have walked through the campus instead of down the road where the lighting was almost non-existent at that time of night.

Reading the history of HMO was interesting.....especially the part that the author says basically that it was more about poor investments by insurance companies that caused much of the problem.

[Narcissist71]

I believe that your friend checked himself out, but sadly, he didn't really have to. The HMO would have paid the bill.

Here's a link to ER medical treatment and New York Insurance laws. I'm sure other states are the same:

http://www.ins.state.ny.us/ogco2008/rg080704.htm

Actually I'm not sure of that....about most states being the same. That was one of the things that McCain wanted to address. Competition among the different states, and one of the problems was there wasn't much uniformity among the different states.

JMO.....just what I recall.

[MiamiNice1]

Well that's what you get for walking from a bar/club at 2:30am intoxicated in an iffy area. Not the worst area, but I should have walked through the campus instead of down the road where the lighting was almost non-existent at that time of night.

Reading the history of HMO was interesting.....especially the part that the author says basically that it was more about poor investments by insurance companies that caused much of the problem.
Dangerous living, Narcissist! :sneaky: Thankfully, you are now ok!

I forgot to thank you for the link - it had no idea they began as far back as 1973 and yes, it is interesting to know about the poor investments by the insurance companies.

[MiamiNice1]

This is so true, MiamiNice.

Many people are running on scared because of the carp they read and see on on such channels as MSNBC. They don't really know how to work the insurance company or what is provided them.

In addition,I pointed out on an earlier post that the first example given in the OPs link is a young man who went to Woodhull Hospital in Brooklyn. The law states that he didn't, in fact, have to leave and was entitled to financial aid.

Many people are simply unaware of what is available to them.

imo
"Knowledge is power" and when it comes to insurance companies, I believe they purposefully complicate and confuse. Many people do not know what they are entitled to and end up in a lot of trouble because of their lack of knowledge.

I read your post upthread about his not having to leave and that was also my first thought.

I don't understand the point of using these scare tactics now....:confused:

imo

[Narcissist71]

Hi Narcissist! Good to see you.

Here is the law in California:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/09/business/fi-emergency9

Don't know about the other states but I tend to think most of them have the same provisions.

I'm not saying you are wrong about this particular issue.

You did point to two of the more liberal states. LOL

But as far as this particular you may be correct, I'm definitely not saying that I'm right or in the position to say that. :)

And hi, how are you? I'm doing fine. :)

[Lady_Jean_La]

Thank you for posting the actual FACTS as they happen. The article at the beginning of the thread is nothing more than fear-mongering. Things have worked this way for ages.

Yes, there are big time problems with health care in this country - but that is NOT what the thread is about - it is about "patients fleeing from the ER."

imo

Well said, but like most threads it went off topic rather quickly. jmo

[Lady_Jean_La]

So, in other words, you think it is ok that a 25 hour hospital visit I just experienced was priced at 72,000 dollars. I have insurance thankfully. But what if I did not? And then there is the little problem of having to wait in the EMERGENCY rooms for hours to be seen because people are going there for things that should be taken care of by a family physician. When I broke an arm and was in pain, I had to wait 14 hours in the waiting room of a huge hospital to be seen in a waiting room where a girl was vomiting so frequently that I, pain and all, went to a desk concerned that she might be dehydrated. Even though she came in after me, I insisted she be seen first. We have major problems with our health care. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a fool. It is something that needs to be addressed if we ever hope to be up to the standards of other industrialized countries.

When I have been to ER patients are taken in the order that qualified medical professionals decide not the insistance of other patients. I think that is a more trusted system. jmo

[Lady_Jean_La]

For goodness sake, elective surgeries will have to be paid for by the individual, just as they are now. I see you have an Agenda with regard to Abortion, and that's fine, but it's yours alone. It's a very controversial subject that really has no business being hashed about on a message board. Don't know why you felt the need to throw in that business about the illegal alien. Trying to make a point I guess. :shrug: jmho

Your compassion for those you cited above, is frightening, but I realize that's the right wing mentality.

Are you paying on $500,000. for medical bills? How long do you think someone will have to live to pay it off?

Do you realize that often individuals go to their Dr. and find out they need surgery, or they'll die, and they have no insurance, and they do not qualify for all those "free" services the right wing talk about. They're not poor enough. Try checking into the hospital without insurance, or a cashier's check. I can assure you that's how it works in the real world.

jmho

Someone has to decide what is elective and what is not. jmo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Well that's just not true.

If you're in an HMO and fall ill in another state, you have to contact the emergency number for the HMO. There are provisions for that.



imoExactly. Even out of the country. jmo

[Lady_Jean_La]

I believe what you are saying. That is a shame, and shouldn't be happening. IMO
Many times mistakes are made and people need a negotiator who knows what they are doing. jmo

[Lady_Jean_La]

His mother did call and did leave a message and a call back number. None of that helped him. He had to pay the full cost.
Did they try negotiating?

[Keno]

That's bunk IMO.

Part of the problem is that my parents generation was willing to make sacrifices to carry health coverage. Today, too many people figure they will walk into an ER for treatment if they really need it and never worry about paying the bill.

Families should consider the expense of health care to be just as important as food, clothing and shelter IMO.

i see a lot of families that put new cars, new homes and toys much higher on their 'necessity' list than they do healthcare.

I can remember my parents going without big ticket items in place of health care. They waited until the TV - washing machine - etc broke down before buying a new one. Tonsils removed, eye surgeries etc were more important back in those days and that is the simple truth.

Today, people go out and buy items they really do not need. We still have a regular TV (not a plasma) and we will not buy a new TV until this one goes out. we did buy a new living room set but we had our sofas for 16 yrs and my physical therapist told us L A Z Boy were good for the back. My car is a 1990 Toyota - My husband drives a 6 yr old truck. I do not work NOR do I get disability and we make sure I get my medications and have surgeries if needed. Your health is so much more important. We have insurance and we have a high deductible but worth it.

[Details]

I remember my grandmother saying to me when I got married. "You need to be careful with money. I always had the money for the tonsilectomy". Thats when they did it at home on the kitchen table.Yeah - and how much does it cost, at home on the kitchen table, unsterile, risk of death, one doctor - versus properly in a hospital with nurses and expensive equipment on standby to save your life if something goes wrong.

Health care back then cost a very different amount than health care now does.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Pelosi promises 'sweeping' health-care bill by July

AP

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090513/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_overhaul;_ylt=AhSQ_hZCqYTXemzwkisb33Os0N UE;_ylu=X3oDMTJqaTB2Ym90BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNTEzL3 VzX2hlYWx0aF9vdmVyaGF1bARjcG9zAzEEcG9zAzIEc2VjA3lu X3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDcGVsb3NpcHJvbWlz

[Details]

Details, my point was about using money for medical bills and in response to the Keno post of his/her Grandparents saving money. My grandmother said the cost was $75.00 but this was back in the twenties. Sadley, I have seen patients die from the tonsilectomy in the hospital. In any event, health care was what it was and not making a commentary about home VS hospital surgery.The point I am making is not about home versus hospital surgery - it is about the practicality of being able to save enough money for medical costs now versus then. We've had inflation - but not enough to make saving up enough money for a $75.00 tonsilectomy equivalent to $72,000 dollars for 25 hours in the hospital, let alone costs for if you dare have a heart attack (back then you died - cheap!), diabetes, asthma, etc.

Saving 10% of your income, let's say, for medical costs - that may be practical for those who have enough money after paying for basic rent and food bills. But when medical costs can be at 100% of your income (after taxes, I don't think I've got a spare $72000 sitting around even if we didn't pay for rent, food, nor any luxuries!) - this is a different era, a different situation. Insurance is also extremely expensive, more expensive, and covers even less if you have to buy it as an individual. And if you dare have a preexisting condition, many won't even sell to you.

So this notion that it's just irresponsible people buying flatscreen TV's, rather than saving money for doctor visits and emergencies - it really doesn't apply. One simple trip to the emergency room can easily cost a few hundred flatscreen TV's worth.

[Details]

Details, my point was about using money for medical bills and in response to the Keno post of his/her Grandparents saving money. My grandmother said the cost was $75.00 but this was back in the twenties. Sadley, I have seen patients die from the tonsilectomy in the hospital. In any event, health care was what it was and not making a commentary about home VS hospital surgery. What would the equivelant $75 dollars in 1929 be to dollars today? Anyone know? My grandmother certainly though it was a lot of money, particulary for the working low income folk.According to the consumer price index - it would be $942. According to the unskilled wage index, it would be $2977. For a tonsilectomy today - you pay between $4100 and $6300. Which - depending which calculator you are using, is a great bargain, considering now that includes a prelim visit, anesthesia, and post-surgery visits. http://www.costhelper.com/cost/health/tonsil-removal.html

Neither of these numbers comes close to what you would pay today for that 25 hours in the hospital, in an earlier poster's comment - there are many more diseases that are curable, that you no longer have to just simply endure or die from today. It's just not as affordable as it was back then, because we can do more, because costs are higher (part of that has to do with us not having a universal health plan - those are able to negotiate costs more effectively).

Great relative dollar calculator here:
http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/

[Lady_Jean_La]

this isn't something that should be pushed through hastily hasn't she learned from the stimulus bill? :rolleyes:

We need it as fast as possible to save the economy. Medical cost are killing the USA. jmo