May 8 to May 12

[Katie]

I'm new to this board...
Yesterday's PC left me with more questions...
WHY, WHY, WHY did Rodney say he'd not reported Victoria being seen in the school yard, on the other side of the school, to the police... I don't get that... I can't see where that has been clarified & hope that PJ gets the reporters to ask today about it.
Did that really bother anyone else?

[girlfriday]

Just a little bit about the VOI

If you look at the footage of the VOI on YouTube - the time stamp is visable (when it shows the portions that are not 'cleaned-up') At the bottom of the screen, it looks to me like the time was 3:37 when the car passed.

Mind you, the 'day' stamp looks to me like "00" when I'd expect to see "08".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryYis...e=channel_page

[girlfriday]

I'm new to this board...
Yesterday's PC left me with more questions...
WHY, WHY, WHY did Rodney say he'd not reported Victoria being seen in the school yard, on the other side of the school, to the police... I don't get that... I can't see where that has been clarified & hope that PJ gets the reporters to ask today about it.
Did that really bother anyone else?

The only part of that I would be concerned about is WHO told him that.

If he heard that direct from kids I'd think they were mistaken. But, if an adult was trying to stress that to him (with our fore knowledge that the footage was not known about immediately) I'd be taking a careful look at the adult's involvement and determining how soon they told me that (before or after the footage was known to identify Tori) because if they were involved in some way they would be wanting to send others in the wrong direction, so to speak.

[girlfriday]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryYisYGew3s&feature=channel_page

[n/t]

I'm new to this board...
Yesterday's PC left me with more questions...
WHY, WHY, WHY did Rodney say he'd not reported Victoria being seen in the school yard, on the other side of the school, to the police... I don't get that... I can't see where that has been clarified & hope that PJ gets the reporters to ask today about it.
Did that really bother anyone else?

Hi Katie,

Welcome to the board. Yes, I found that odd. He should've given that information to the police.

[n/t]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryYisYGew3s&feature=channel_page

So that would mean the car passed by 5 seconds after Tori and the abductor were in that spot, right? Maybe it's just me but he/she seems to be driving at a normal speed. Not slowing down when he approaches that area.

I think this car is just a deterrent to what's really going on. I can't see how the person would even notice anything of importance if Tori and the abductor were just walking along like any other pedestrian unless of course he/she saw some sort of struggle.

[Lovethechild]

Thanks for Christie Blatchford's article, n/t. This paragraph gave me the willies.

~When out in public, she said, "People have said to me, 'You know people are looking at you,' and it doesn't faze me at all. Like some people have come up to us like acting like we're some kind of movie star, 'Omigod I can't believe that it's you!' - they want to hug us and everything.~

Is Tori's mother a victim or a suspect?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...PStory/Comment

my bold

imo, if someone was saying that people were suspecting me, I would be "faze"d:ohmy:

Page not found..Link isn't working.

[BeetlebrowII]

WOW!!!

I see we have some new posters here. Welcome to the newbies.....don't be afraid to ask questions we all were new at some point.

To the "seasoned posters" (Kellog, Lizzie...etc) who have started to post here we need your perspective. This case is so crazy and the mom (Tara) is just.........:scared:

Luckily the press seems to be taking an interest FINALLY in all the odd things that have been going on. Seems like they have been bending over backwards to not upset the family involved and its only taken a month :rolleyes: for them to start questioning the inconsistencys.

[BeetlebrowII]

Thanks for Christie Blatchford's article, n/t. This paragraph gave me the willies.

~When out in public, she said, "People have said to me, 'You know people are looking at you,' and it doesn't faze me at all. Like some people have come up to us like acting like we're some kind of movie star, 'Omigod I can't believe that it's you!' - they want to hug us and everything.~

Is Tori's mother a victim or a suspect?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...PStory/Comment

my bold

imo, if someone was saying that people were suspecting me, I would be "faze"d:ohmy:

This is par for the course with Tara. Have you seen her earlier interviews. She basically came out punching!!. I think she had a "not so great reputation" in Woodstock before this happened but the fact that she has:

1. Been very defensive from DAY 1.
2. Refuses on numerous occasions to "ask" the kidnappers to release her daughter.
3. Has not shown any palpable sadness and becomes angry when questioned about this.
4. Seems extremely interested in and upset by the "negative" things that have been posted online. (She actually said everyone should stop posting on line and start looking for Tori when she herself has apparently spent lots of time online and has not bothered to physically look for Tori OR ask questions of people she knows have information)
5. I just realized this coluld become an extremely long list ut u get the point.

Shows that she is very focused on how this is affecting HER and that she may know and be pissed off whomever has Tori.

[BeetlebrowII]

So we now know the bff is Sarah Leeper. I did not see any red flags when I read her interview but it is strange that she just moved back to Woodstock one week before Tori's kidnapping.

I also do not understand how she can be on the list of people allowed to pick up Tori at school if she has only been back for a week. If the "friend" on the list is indeed her otherwise who could it be??.

It seems like the more we know......the more we don't know. These reporters at Tara's press conferences need to get their rears in gear and star asking the obvious questions. Tara has been "allowed" to answer in a vague fashion or respond with "I don't know" without any follow up as to why she dosen't know something that she so obviously SHOULD!!!. :cursing:

[BeetlebrowII]

Hey Virgo!!!

Full moon tonite!!!. Tara is a Scorpio and as such her ruler is the moon. She is affected by the phases of the moon more than any other sun sign. Maybe something will happen??

I think Tara bringing Daryn to the press conference is the beginning of Tara's sympathy play. She knows people are getting angry/suspicious with her and she really does "care" alot about what people think. It probably rubs her the wrong way to have to ask for sympathy but I think we are about to see some DRAMA that will create sympathy for Tara.

WHERE IS JAMES GORIS!!!! Does anyone else think it is odd that he has dropped COMPLETELY off the radar??. He just gave me the heebie jeebies.....:sad:

[BeetlebrowII]

Beetle, I'm back and forth so often on theories, my brain is getting rug burn. For no reason I can convey, cuz I don't have one, I don't think it's the biker connection.

IMO Tara is in here neck-deep. I don't know what, but I think something got out of her control, and now she's stuck. The limo story was just too "out there" for me to believe, my gut turned on that one.

What I don't have is a good theory as to what happened, only that I think drugs may be involved. Maybe money? FWIW, I don't think Rodney knows anything.

This is completely my opinion, we have so few facts.

I look forward to many other ideas being posted.

Hey Lizzie,

I also do not believe this has to do with the bandido trial. But I never realized how many motorcycle clubs (most of them tame) there are in Woodstock and the surrounding areas. Tara obviously knows bikers and with some bike clubs there comes the question of drugs.

Tara's trouble with housing, lack of any permanent employment (also no one knows what boyfriend does for a living), multiple rumors of drug use, her inability to remember even the simplest things at the pressors, partying in the limo.....etc lead me to believe that Tara is most definitely involved with drugs in a very pertinant way but to what extent......only the police know. This also makes me wonder if someone did not take Tori away from Tara because they were concerned with Tori's welfare.

One more thing....Tara keeps referring to the abductor "THEY". She has never to my knowledge (I have watched all the pressors from the beginning) referred to the kidnapper in the singular. To me this points to a group which most likely means drugs.

[BeetlebrowII]

I suck at posting links:cursing:. Try googling Christie Blatchford, it's the May 8 column. If not, pm me your email, I've got it on C&P.

Lizzie highlight the link that is the top or furthest up on the page (should be in the box next to the back and foward arrows). MAKE SURE that you keep the curser (arrow) IN the box where the link is when you LEFT CLICK. Then just chose copy. Voila!!

Hubby works for Microsoft and works from home so if you have computer questions I would be glad to ask him, he does not mind. :smile:

[BeetlebrowII]

my bold

So am I, and you are exactly right. I don't need to look out the window or at a lunar calendar to know when the full moon is near. I know.

My sun is in Taurus (5/10) but my moon is in Scorpio. Not at all surprised that "KNOW". Scorpios tend to feel highly emotional during a full moon.....I always recommend a swim in a pool, bath, shower....etc because water is VERY cleansing for Scorpio energy.

Tara show LOTS of Scorpio traits. Scorpios tend to act like they are not affected when wronged by someone else. But WATCH OUT because as soon as they get the chance (and they will wait for this as long as it takes) that scorpion stinger will strike and it will hit a bullseye every time.....they KNOW how to exact revenge without it appearing that they have!!. I sense that Tara not only knows who took Tori, but as soon as she finds out where is.......she will exact her revenge. :w00t:

[kelloggirl]

Thanks for Christie Blatchford's article, n/t. This paragraph gave me the willies.

~When out in public, she said, "People have said to me, 'You know people are looking at you,' and it doesn't faze me at all. Like some people have come up to us like acting like we're some kind of movie star, 'Omigod I can't believe that it's you!' - they want to hug us and everything.~

Is Tori's mother a victim or a suspect?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...PStory/Comment

my bold

imo, if someone was saying that people were suspecting me, I would be "faze"d:ohmy:

Also from that same article is this quote/attitude which I find bizarre:

"...the 30-year-old mother was asked if detectives from the Ontario Provincial Police-led investigation “have ever actually come out and said to you they consider you a suspect?”

“Not blatantly, no,” Ms. McDonald replied. “Not flat out.”

But literally in the next breath, she began to back-pedal from that statement.

“Ummm, like I mean, they've said they have to rule out from the inside out first, and that's all they've said. You know, like I mean like I said, if something was wrong, then I'm sure I wouldn't be standing here right now.”

She has offered a similar explanation before when speaking of her polygraph test, never saying directly that she had passed, but rather that if she hadn't, she wouldn't be a free woman now."

Is she really that clueless as to believe that she's not a suspect just because she's not in handcuffs? Or is it more of her defensive and unemotional behavior?

Thanks for the shout-out Beetlebrow! I'm still working on a theory, but I'm not sure I have enough details on the timeline to make it work.

1. Trying to figure out exactly how much time elapsed between when we see Tori and her abductor on video and the time that Daryn came home from school - time stamp was about 3:30 and Daryn was home at 4:15 correct? So, 45 minutes, one hour tops?

I also have other questions:

2. Is it verified that Tara WAS home when Daryn arrived? (By Daryn, not Tara - something we'll probably never know unless LE tells us)

3. Where was James Goris when Daryn got home from school?

4. Did they (including Daryn) all pile into the car and go look for Tori back at the school? When was Tara's mother called and did they pick her up on the way or did she meet them there?

[Gugug]

My child went to an elementary school with more than 600 students. Different grades went out different doors. The school was in a square shape, and some of the doors were not visible from other parts of the school, nor the street. Supervision at the end of the day was lax, and it wasn't so good during the day, either.

My child's teachers had a class of 72 children in two grades. They sent a group of about 20 to play in the playground, then went around a corner to play a game with the rest. There were three teachers. No one stayed with the group of 20. My child went missing, but I didn't find out until he didn't come home on the bus. Time went by. Another parent on the playground saw him, and asked why he hadn't gone home on the bus, because her child was in the same class. The school did not apologize for the lack of supervision during school hours. My child, a primary student, had wandered off before class ended.

A kindergarten student went missing during school hours soon after. The teacher took the children out for play time (not during regular recess). We found out later that a non-custodial father took the child, and didn't bring him back until well after the morning kindergarten class had let out. The school did not notify the police immediately, but did its own search. Parent volunteers were pressed into action. I should note that the teacher did not notice the child was missing until the students went back inside after playtime, and she took attendance.

This school also didn't lock doors during class hours, until parental pressure finally convinced the principal to give in.

Now, those forms parents fill out are very nice, but unless your child is going home on the school bus, it would be very easy to get around this at the end of the day. Missing bus students are noticed, because the bus drivers where we live cannot leave the school until each child is accounted for.

If a person of authority has not signed for the child in the school office, or a parent has not notified the school in advance, that bus will be parked. My child's new school has a policy that anyone who shows up at the end of the day with a letter of authorization to take a child will be refused. This is to prevent people using forged signatures. Even if the signature is real, it's not acceptable unless provided in advance.

I moved my child to a small school, where strangers are noticed. I also told my child who he was allowed to leave with, and no one else. We've repeated this many times, especially after his GPs started threatening me. We told him to kick and scream if anyone not on our list tries to take him. We told him to kick and scream if his GPs tried to take him. We also wrote on the school form who our child is not allowed to leave with, and told them to call the police if those people show up.

We hope our instructions will be followed. Welcome to modern times.

[Gugug]

Why does this happen? Perhaps the family has told those people that if they get out of line, they will be banned from the press conferences and denied any access to the family. The family could have warned them. After all, look at how they have handled social networking.

You wouldn't want to be the only media outlet in the country without the story, would you? They're walking a fine line.

[n/t]

They're setting up for today's conference.

http://www.mogulus.com/lfpress

[BeetlebrowII]

Also from that same article is this quote/attitude which I find bizarre:

"...the 30-year-old mother was asked if detectives from the Ontario Provincial Police-led investigation “have ever actually come out and said to you they consider you a suspect?”

“Not blatantly, no,” Ms. McDonald replied. “Not flat out.”

But literally in the next breath, she began to back-pedal from that statement.

“Ummm, like I mean, they've said they have to rule out from the inside out first, and that's all they've said. You know, like I mean like I said, if something was wrong, then I'm sure I wouldn't be standing here right now.”

She has offered a similar explanation before when speaking of her polygraph test, never saying directly that she had passed, but rather that if she hadn't, she wouldn't be a free woman now."

Is she really that clueless as to believe that she's not a suspect just because she's not in handcuffs? Or is it more of her defensive and unemotional behavior?

Thanks for the shout-out Beetlebrow! I'm still working on a theory, but I'm not sure I have enough details on the timeline to make it work.

1. Trying to figure out exactly how much time elapsed between when we see Tori and her abductor on video and the time that Daryn came home from school - time stamp was about 3:30 and Daryn was home at 4:15 correct? So, 45 minutes, one hour tops?

I also have other questions:

2. Is it verified that Tara WAS home when Daryn arrived? (By Daryn, not Tara - something we'll probably never know unless LE tells us)

3. Where was James Goris when Daryn got home from school?

4. Did they (including Daryn) all pile into the car and go look for Tori back at the school? When was Tara's mother called and did they pick her up on the way or did she meet them there?

Hi Kellog,

I know that the bell rings at Tori's school at 3:25pm. I presume that kids get their stuff together and head for the door where they are supposed to be. I would assume that this would take about 5 min. Then someone came and got her. So I think the time frame between when she is seen in the video and Daryn arrived home is going to be somewhere around 35-40min.

Questions 2,3,4 are the same questions we have had from the beginning and I don't think anyone knows. Despite there being a pressor every week day, the reporters ask the same lame questions every day over and over........ie, how are you?, how is your family, have you heard anything, has LE told you anything?, are you tired?, when is the next fundraiser...etc. When they do get to a rare hard question they stumble over it and seem uncomfortable confronting Tara.

You know how during press conferences in the states reporters fight to get their questions heard?. Well at Tara's pressors there are long drawn out silences where everyone just stands totally still and stares....... usually it is Tara or recently Rodney who break the silence.....it is BIZARRE. Meanwhile we are all screaming questions at our computers. :tonguewag:

[tarabull1]

Barely awake, haven't even had my morning cup o' java but I just heard that tara now says her friend sarah has in the past got together with her, tori and daryn on occasion but yet sarah herself said she has never met tori!?!?!?!?!?

did anyone else catch that?

[Gugug]

From the sound of it, you'd think it was a subdivision. It isn't. Is Tara referring to the Siksika Nation reserve? If so, that's not actually in the town of Bassano, either.

And getting a lawyer to sue everyone for slander? What a waste of time and money.

[BeetlebrowII]

My child went to an elementary school with more than 600 students. Different grades went out different doors. The school was in a square shape, and some of the doors were not visible from other parts of the school, nor the street. Supervision at the end of the day was lax, and it wasn't so good during the day, either.

My child's teachers had a class of 72 children in two grades. They sent a group of about 20 to play in the playground, then went around a corner to play a game with the rest. There were three teachers. No one stayed with the group of 20. My child went missing, but I didn't find out until he didn't come home on the bus. Time went by. Another parent on the playground saw him, and asked why he hadn't gone home on the bus, because her child was in the same class. The school did not apologize for the lack of supervision during school hours. My child, a primary student, had wandered off before class ended.

A kindergarten student went missing during school hours soon after. The teacher took the children out for play time (not during regular recess). We found out later that a non-custodial father took the child, and didn't bring him back until well after the morning kindergarten class had let out. The school did not notify the police immediately, but did its own search. Parent volunteers were pressed into action. I should note that the teacher did not notice the child was missing until the students went back inside after playtime, and she took attendance.

This school also didn't lock doors during class hours, until parental pressure finally convinced the principal to give in.

Now, those forms parents fill out are very nice, but unless your child is going home on the school bus, it would be very easy to get around this at the end of the day. Missing bus students are noticed, because the bus drivers where we live cannot leave the school until each child is accounted for.

If a person of authority has not signed for the child in the school office, or a parent has not notified the school in advance, that bus will be parked. My child's new school has a policy that anyone who shows up at the end of the day with a letter of authorization to take a child will be refused. This is to prevent people using forged signatures. Even if the signature is real, it's not acceptable unless provided in advance.

I moved my child to a small school, where strangers are noticed. I also told my child who he was allowed to leave with, and no one else. We've repeated this many times, especially after his GPs started threatening me. We told him to kick and scream if anyone not on our list tries to take him. We told him to kick and scream if his GPs tried to take him. We also wrote on the school form who our child is not allowed to leave with, and told them to call the police if those people show up.

We hope our instructions will be followed. Welcome to modern times.

ITA Gugug,

I have been saying all along that I find it NO ONE has questioned the schools responsibility in all this. This girl is 8 YEARS OLD. IMO the press here would be all over this and school would be forced to respond with at least a statement!!. No one has questioned the school until Tara brought it up at yesterdays conference.

If grandma had been picking Tori up.....was the school aware of this and were they notified that Tori was now walking home??
If Tori regularily waited for her brother to walk her home did no one question why a stranger would take her or why she was not waiting for her brother??? Apparently this is not important to the news because there have been no questions OR even one statement from anyone connected to the school. I am not saying they are responsible but you would think there would at least be other parents wanting to know what happened......:confused:

[tarabull1]

From the sound of it, you'd think it was a subdivision. It isn't. Is Tara referring to the Siksika Nation reserve? If so, that's not actually in the town of Bassano, either.

And getting a lawyer to sue everyone for slander? What a waste of time and money.

Siksika Nation is very near Bassano - southeast of Calgary.

[Gugug]

And Rodney hung out with her, too. Holy cow. Could that be the someone he knew in high school? And he just said that Sara looks like the composite sketch?

[BeetlebrowII]

Barely awake, haven't even had my morning cup o' java but I just heard that tara now says her friend sarah has in the past got together with her, tori and daryn on occasion but yet sarah herself said she has never met tori!?!?!?!?!?

did anyone else catch that?

Did the reporters question her on it??......let me guess....

[tarabull1]

Siksika Nation is very near Bassano - southeast of Calgary.


According to google maps directions from Calgary to Bassano, AB =
139 km – about 1 hour 26 mins

[ginky41]

My sun is in Taurus (5/10) but my moon is in Scorpio. Not at all surprised that "KNOW". Scorpios tend to feel highly emotional during a full moon.....I always recommend a swim in a pool, bath, shower....etc because water is VERY cleansing for Scorpio energy.

Tara show LOTS of Scorpio traits. Scorpios tend to act like they are not affected when wronged by someone else. But WATCH OUT because as soon as they get the chance (and they will wait for this as long as it takes) that scorpion stinger will strike and it will hit a bullseye every time.....they KNOW how to exact revenge without it appearing that they have!!. I sense that Tara not only knows who took Tori, but as soon as she finds out where is.......she will exact her revenge. :w00t:

Ouch....I'm a scorpio and I don't find that that description fits me ;) You could be right about Tara though, I don't think she's anything like me either. Who knows. :confused:

[BeetlebrowII]

From the sound of it, you'd think it was a subdivision. It isn't. Is Tara referring to the Siksika Nation reserve? If so, that's not actually in the town of Bassano, either.

And getting a lawyer to sue everyone for slander? What a waste of time and money.

I only caught the end of the PC. What is this about Bassano??

[ginky41]

And Rodney hung out with her, too. Holy cow. Could that be the someone he knew in high school? And he just said that Sara looks like the composite sketch?

Whoa....you may be on to something here. I for one, think that sketch looks more like this Sara than it does Tara. Too weird.

[ginky41]

In an effort to save my marriage (:rolleyes:) I've only been checking in on this case while I'm at work. Therefore, I've been a bit out of the loop for the past week or so. Did the girl from the vigil who looks like a suspect ever get identified/interviewed? Can someone fill me in on her? TIA.

[Orleaner12]

there is a large reserve in south west Calgary.. next to an army base...will think of the name but at this time it alludes me....

[Gugug]

ITA Gugug,

I have been saying all along that I find it NO ONE has questioned the schools responsibility in all this. This girl is 8 YEARS OLD. IMO the press here would be all over this and school would be forced to respond with at least a statement!!. No one has questioned the school until Tara brought it up at yesterdays conference.

If grandma had been picking Tori up.....was the school aware of this and were they notified that Tori was now walking home??
If Tori regularily waited for her brother to walk her home did no one question why a stranger would take her or why she was not waiting for her brother??? Apparently this is not important to the news because there have been no questions OR even one statement from anyone connected to the school. I am not saying they are responsible but you would think there would at least be other parents wanting to know what happened......:confused:

As far as I was concerned, my child's school was responsible. Note that every safeguard failed him. Even the school bus driver did not stay put. The school was supposed to put him on the bus, because there was no authorization to do otherwise. Every single check and control was not followed that day, and that upset me as much as anything. I was in the school office having a word with the principal as soon as I could drive there.

After the non-apology, I went down the hall to my child's class and asked the teachers why they'd left my child unattended in the playground during school hours. They were rude, actually, and made some comment about well, I had him now, so what was the problem?

School policy changed after this. I was sick with a migraine the next day and couldn't get out of bed. Thank goodness it was a PD day, because I couldn't have sent my child to school. Doesn't anybody do their jobs these days? How often do children go missing at school without anyone in the public knowing?

Tori's case is different in that the school day had ended. She did not ride the bus. I don't know the policies of her school board. However, children do slip through policies and procedures. What are those policies and procedures in Tori's school? This is every parent's nightmare.

[BeetlebrowII]

Ouch....I'm a scorpio and I don't find that that description fits me ;) You could be right about Tara though, I don't think she's anything like me either. Who knows. :confused:

To me Tara shows alot of the qualities of a Scorpio.
I guess I should have prefaced with the lesson for Scorpios is to learn and take the high road and not give in to need for revenge. Some Scorpios have risen above, but most are somewhere in between. If you are on or near the cusp, or have a conflicting moon sign and or many of your planets in conflicting signs (for u that would be fire and air signs) this can also have a negating effect on the effect of your sun sign. I know a great website where you can do your own chart for free and the explanations are easy to read. I will PM u.

[Orleaner12]

okay it is the Scarcee Indian Reserve that borders the city of Calgary near the Scarcee army base...could this be the one she spoke of?

[juliekan]

In an effort to save my marriage (:rolleyes:) I've only been checking in on this case while I'm at work. Therefore, I've been a bit out of the loop for the past week or so. Did the girl from the vigil who looks like a suspect ever get identified/interviewed? Can someone fill me in on her? TIA.

:laugh:

I think that was the Sara they are discussing here??

[Gugug]

there is a large reserve in south west Calgary.. next to an army base...will think of the name but at this time it alludes me....

No, the Siksika reserve is the one she is referring to, I believe, not the Sarcee, or Tsu Tina Nation.

[juliekan]

I missed the PC today, anyone was to post a brief recap? Pretty please :smile:

[BeetlebrowII]

In an effort to save my marriage (:rolleyes:) I've only been checking in on this case while I'm at work. Therefore, I've been a bit out of the loop for the past week or so. Did the girl from the vigil who looks like a suspect ever get identified/interviewed? Can someone fill me in on her? TIA.

That was Sarah the Bff.

[Gugug]

okay it is the Scarcee Indian Reserve that borders the city of Calgary near the Scarcee army base...could this be the one she spoke of?

She is referring to the Siksika Reserve, or Blackfoot nation. It is very large, between the east edge of Calgary and Bassano.

The Tsu Tina Nation is not the one. It is on the soutwest edge of Calgary, to the edge of Bragg Creek. (The army base is long gone.)

[BeetlebrowII]

She is referring to the Siksika Reserve, or Blackfoot nation. It is very large, between the east edge of Calgary and Bassano.

The Tsu Tina Nation is not the one. It is on the soutwest edge of Calgary, to the edge of Bragg Creek. (The army base is long gone.)

For those of us who missed it....what did she say about an indian reserve???:blink:

[BeetlebrowII]

I missed the PC today, anyone was to post a brief recap? Pretty please :smile:

Ditto...pour favor :tongue:

[Orleaner12]

but isn't that reserve much futher east of Calgary.(an hour or so)...why would she say her brother lives in Calgary.....unless she meant Alberta.....(not that it's important though)...but people could get lost on a reserve.....I believe they have their own police force...no?

I am still mulling over her remark from yesterday...."why would I protect Tori and not her son"...that still remains a slip to me.....protect from whom?

[tarabull1]

Siksika Nation is very near Bassano - southeast of Calgary.

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/snems/location.html

[Gugug]

Barely awake, haven't even had my morning cup o' java but I just heard that tara now says her friend sarah has in the past got together with her, tori and daryn on occasion but yet sarah herself said she has never met tori!?!?!?!?!?

did anyone else catch that?

Yes, and Rodney said something about no wonder people think the composite sketch looks like Sara because it does.

And they all went to high school together.

And Rodney disagrees with Tara on other things, too, like the comments made on a social networking site. He said that at least it keeps Tori's story out there with people talking about her, and people know Tori has not been found.

[Orleaner12]

Today Tara went on and on about her friend Sara and how she didn't give permission for that article and how her friend can't even visit Tara anymore etc. etc. she sounded more worried about her friend than Tori..Rodney was more verbal today and contradicted Tare a few times and didn't agree with her on some issues..She did confirm that she was home at 3:30pm that day... going to ask facebook to take down some pages...

[tarabull1]

For those of us who missed it....what did she say about an indian reserve???:blink:

IF i'm not mistaken - she said that's where her brother lives...his home was searched yesterday.

[ginky41]

That was Sarah the Bff.

That was Sara at the vigil? The one the media picked out and said "who is this woman, she really resembles the sketch." Whoa. That's weird.

[Gugug]

but isn't that reserve much futher east of Calgary.(an hour or so)...why would she say her brother lives in Calgary.....unless she meant Alberta.....(not that it's important though)...but people could get lost on a reserve.....I believe they have their own police force...no?

I am still mulling over her remark from yesterday...."why would I protect Tori and not her son"...that still remains a slip to me.....protect from whom?

Yes, the reserve has tribal police. Different police forces would have to be cooperating, because things are handled differently on a reserve than in a city, for example.

The fact that she said he lives in Calgary is another misleading statement from Tara. Oops, it's not the city, it's somewhere else. But it's in the same province...It's not a city, it's a reserve. This reserve is a big one.

[Orleaner12]

she also said that Sara and her get together quite often...hairdresser/having their nails done etc. and the kids have been around Sara over the years so that makes the comments from Sara moot when it comes to Tori not knowing her... Rodney also said that the sketch does resemble Sara.....think he may be in deep doggy p** after today.....(with Tara)...

[Gugug]

That was Sara at the vigil? The one the media picked out and said "who is this woman, she really resembles the sketch." Whoa. That's weird.

Was it Sara at the sun dress press conference? That is the woman I said looks like the composite sketch, and is about the right height.

Wouldn't the police check the height of the woman by having someone of that supposed height stand out there, film her on the same camera, and compare the images? This would eliminate any need to guess her height based on what they were told is Tori's height.

[Orleaner12]

here is today's PC

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/08/9391431-sun.html


also I think there was a short police PC today.....

[virgogal]

SIGH! More and more contradictions...Where does the truth lie??

It was certainly nice to see Rodney speaking his mind today!!
He is MAD! And deservedly SO!!
I am sure he will fight Tara tooth and nail about having his family's site removed!!

Well...full moon tonight huh? Let's hope something 'break's tonight!!
Jaaaaaames??? Where ARE you????

One thing I noticed is that the last 2 days Tara has said only herself, her best friend and James' mother could pick up the kids...

But I thought all along HER mother was the one dropping off and picking up Tori and Daryn??? hmmmmmmm


I'd sure love a link to the Astrological website that was mentionned earlier...please?

[BeetlebrowII]

Did any one else notice that when Tara was talking about Sara being such a wonderful friend, she has always been there for me, she has never done anything bad to me.........Rodney cleared his throat really loudly in the middle of Tara's compliments......I got the distinct feeling that he does not agree or knows of something that happened in the past....

Then after she is done complimenting Sara's friendship attributes and saying there is no way she has anything to do with this..........Rodney pipes up and says that they cannot eliminate anyone :w00t:

Hmmm.......Rodney sure is growing some cahonees (sp?) Starting to like him more every day.

And Tara, just because your friend was interviewed and the interviewer recorded her without her permission (so what!!) does not mean she cannot come over to house anymore!!! Stop whining and crying about yourself and how this is affecting you and start crying about TORI!!!!

BTW......I just laughed when she got SO MAD talking about when Tori comes home all those mean people online will have to put their big fat at feet in their big fat mouths, I just wish I was there to see it :w00t:
Can you spell R E V E N G E.

I think Tara pissed someone off and she cannot admit it and she will not back down even at the expense of her daughter.....very sad.

[BeetlebrowII]

SIGH! More and more contradictions...Where does the truth lie??

It was certainly nice to see Rodney speaking his mind today!!
He is MAD! And deservedly SO!!
I am sure he will fight Tara tooth and nail about having his family's site removed!!

Well...full moon tonight huh? Let's hope something 'break's tonight!!
Jaaaaaames??? Where ARE you????

One thing I noticed is that the last 2 days Tara has said only herself, her best friend and James' mother could pick up the kids...

But I thought all along HER mother was the one dropping off and picking up Tori and Daryn??? hmmmmmmm


I'd sure love a link to the Astrological website that was mentionned earlier...please?

ITA Virgo........so now she did complete the polygraph....back and forth....back and forth.....

Why would her Bff be on the list if she has only been in town a week???

I am glad Sara's interview was recorded so it is on tape that she never met Tori.

Who is little Aunt Pepper who rides a motorcycle??. At first she said Aunt P is the ONLY one she knows who rides a motorcycle then in the next sentence she says alot of people in her family ride motorcycles. Maybe she meant that Aunt Pepper is the only one in a club??

IF IT UPSETS DARYN TO READ COMMENTS ONLINE THEN WHY IS SHE STILL LETTING HIM!!!. FROM DAY 1 WE HAVE HEARD HOW MUCH IT UPSETS HIM MOVE ON FGS!!!!!

Sending you a PM :smile:

[juliekan]

here is today's PC

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/08/9391431-sun.html


also I think there was a short police PC today.....

Thanks! I love the pic side by side with the sketch. Dead-ringer.

[Orleaner12]

if Sara is Tara's best friend, the one whose name is listed to pick up Tori, how would Tori know her if Sara says that Tori would not know her as she hasn't been around for six years.....is there another best friend? either these people are not good liars or they are trying to confuse on purpose.... good thing the police are recording everything that comes out of Tara's mouth. also Tara mentioned that Sara told her the reporter sat outside and was writing things down in notebook.....what did she think he was doing that for.......

[Gugug]

IF i'm not mistaken - she said that's where her brother lives...his home was searched yesterday.

She had said yesterday at the PC that the police searched the houses of her brother and his mother in Calgary. The brother is the son of her father's first wife.

Today, she said they live on an Indian reserve in Bassano.

It's kind of like saying Woodstock is in Toronto, but no, it's an Indian reserve. The reserve comes close to the town of Bassano, but Bassano is not on reserve land.

[Orleaner12]

She had said yesterday at the PC that the police searched the houses of her brother and his mother in Calgary. The brother is the son of her father's first wife.

Today, she said they live on an Indian reserve in Bassano.

It's kind of like saying Woodstock is in Toronto, but no, it's an Indian reserve. The reserve comes close to the town of Bassano, but Bassano is not on reserve land.

maybe Tara doesn't know that Calgary is a city not a province...:wink:

[Gugug]

I heard one of the reporters piping up that , "We did not record it."

But hey, print reporters can record you. They can then write a transcript of that recording, and use your words. And if you've given permission to be interviewed and said what they said you said, what is the problem?

It is Tara who is complaining. We don't know what the friend thinks, and should not take anyone else's word for what she is thinking. Isn't that hearsay?

This is a diversion.

[BeetlebrowII]

if Sara is Tara's best friend, the one whose name is listed to pick up Tori, how would Tori know her if Sara says that Tori would not know her as she hasn't been around for six years.....is there another best friend? either these people are not good liars or they are trying to confuse on purpose.... good thing the police are recording everything that comes out of Tara's mouth. also Tara mentioned that Sara told her the reporter sat outside and was writing things down in notebook.....what did she think he was doing that for.......

EXACTLY!!......to both points. :thumbsup:

Lets see......you agree to be interviewed, even invite the person onto your porch.....you don't mind if they take notes......you like the article they wrote.....but, you are very upset that they recorded you voice.......:confused: Not video.....voice. (why would you not want someone to hear your voice?....hmmmm)

You are soooo disturbed that you cannot EVER go back over to your best friend since 6th grade's house to give her support like you have been doing every day. Your best friend Tara thinks you can sue because since you did not know you were being recorded it is illegal.....after all your life is over.... Wah Wah Wah Wah Wah Boo Hoo

And what exactly does this have to do with finding Tori??.

[Gugug]

Thanks, Orleaner12.

From that article, speaking about Leeper,:

'She spoke openly with The Free Press. The only question she didn't answer is if she had taken a lie detector test.'

Just another thing that makes me go Hmmmmm.

Yes, that seems to be the person beside Tara in the sun dress press conference. Also, a closer match to the physical description, which we know the police later revised. Nice explanation for the sunglasses that she gave in the interview.

I think that the eyes of the woman in the composite sketch also resemble Tori Stafford's eyes in one of the photos of Tori.

[tarabull1]

Someone over at FB claims Tara has lied by saying in today's PC that she has had no affiliation with the bandito's.

Apparently, there's another FB group called help Wayne kellestine get a fair trial - Wayne Kellestine was the leader of the banditos and is currently in jail for taking part in the massacre of 8 of it's own members and affiliates.

The person claims they researched & discovered this yesterday - now wishes they mentioned it then. Since up until today TARA herself was on many of these people's friends list including family members of Wayne Kellestine.

Just passing on what I'm picking up over there...sounds interesting enough - made me go "hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm"

[tarabull1]

Something I've been wondering about the mystery car video and something Sarah said herself - I'm just going to post it up and see if anyone else has a reading on their hinky meter:

[snipped from her interview...] She spoke openly with The Free Press. The only question she didn’t answer is if she had taken a lie detector test.

Sitting on her spacious backyard deck on the modern home she rents, Leeper described a normal family life disrupted by the accusations.

Her husband works in a body shop and she’s licensed to sell cars. They raise a girl, 9, and a boy, 13, from her first marriage.

[Gugug]

[QUOTE=Orleaner12;13085262
I am still mulling over her remark from yesterday...."why would I protect Tori and not her son"...that still remains a slip to me.....protect from whom?[/QUOTE]

Bringing that up seemed like opening a can of worms. There could be any number of reasons a stranger would take a child, the principal one being opportunity. She was there, wrong place, wrong time, it could happen to anyone...

A better question would have been, "Why Tori? Why us?" And skip the rest.

A targeted child abduction by someone known to the child could have very specific reasons.

So the question becomes did the person who took Tori take her to protect her, and protect her from whom? Protect her from what? Does this mean that Tori is safe?

[Gugug]

Something I've been wondering about the mystery car video and something Sarah said herself - I'm just going to post it up and see if anyone else has a reading on their hinky meter:

[snipped from her interview...] She spoke openly with The Free Press. The only question she didn’t answer is if she had taken a lie detector test.

Sitting on her spacious backyard deck on the modern home she rents, Leeper described a normal family life disrupted by the accusations.

Her husband works in a body shop and she’s licensed to sell cars. They raise a girl, 9, and a boy, 13, from her first marriage.

Cars: the police are looking for a car. People who sell and repair cars have access to lots of different cars, and take them for test drives, don't they?

Do I get the prize?

[virgogal]

maybe Tara doesn't know that Calgary is a city not a province...:wink:



HA! That gave me a good chuckle!!:laugh:

[virgogal]

Someone over at FB claims Tara has lied by saying in today's PC that she has had no affiliation with the bandito's.

Apparently, there's another FB group called help Wayne kellestine get a fair trial - Wayne Kellestine was the leader of the banditos and is currently in jail for taking part in the massacre of 8 of it's own members and affiliates.

The person claims they researched & discovered this yesterday - now wishes they mentioned it then. Since up until today TARA herself was on many of these people's friends list including family members of Wayne Kellestine.

Just passing on what I'm picking up over there...sounds interesting enough - made me go "hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm"


Make that a double hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

[Gugug]

Now at the rate this thing is going, I'd be tempted to say it's Princess Blossom Pepper Doodle Von Yum Yum, the cat from "Fetch With Ruff Ruffman", a children's TV show.

But could it be Linda Jacklin, the aunt who organized Tori's Ride Home? You know, the one with the same last name as the son of Tara's father's first wife, who lives in Alberta, but not in Calgary?

[Katie]

My understanding was that there were 3 people that could sign the kids out from school - ie/ take them out early. And Tara said 1 of those people were her friend that lives in the complex Tara used to live at - she didn't give the friend's name - so imo, Tara wasn't referring to Sara. Also - these names are provided to the schools to sign your kids out ... but as far as afterschool goes, kids can leave & hop into any car to get home.

I've not seen the press conf. today - but will view later - from what I've read on here, Tara says that Sara has met Tori. Tara would have read Sara's story this morning (the story in which Sara says she's never met Tori, as we all did). It doesn't make sense for 1 person to say they'd never met Tori, and the other to say she had ... imo there would be no reason to lie about something like this - meeting your best friend's child...unless you had something to hide, or your friend (Tara) was setting you (Sara) up to look that way.

[Gugug]

Now, it mentions that Sara, friend of Tara, was married previously. Any guesses as to her first husband? I am getting the sickening feeling that things are all twisted up around each other here. What goes backwards goes forward, and on and on...

[Orleaner12]

My understanding was that there were 3 people that could sign the kids out from school - ie/ take them out early. And Tara said 1 of those people were her friend that lives in the complex Tara used to live at - she didn't give the friend's name - so imo, Tara wasn't referring to Sara. Also - these names are provided to the schools to sign your kids out ... but as far as afterschool goes, kids can leave & hop into any car to get home.

I've not seen the press conf. today - but will view later - from what I've read on here, Tara says that Sara has met Tori. Tara would have read Sara's story this morning (the story in which Sara says she's never met Tori, as we all did). It doesn't make sense for 1 person to say they'd never met Tori, and the other to say she had ... imo there would be no reason to lie about something like this - meeting your best friend's child...unless you had something to hide, or your friend (Tara) was setting you (Sara) up to look that way.



that does make more sense..another friend and not this Sara who only moved to Woodstock the week before...

[BeetlebrowII]

My understanding was that there were 3 people that could sign the kids out from school - ie/ take them out early. And Tara said 1 of those people were her friend that lives in the complex Tara used to live at - she didn't give the friend's name - so imo, Tara wasn't referring to Sara. Also - these names are provided to the schools to sign your kids out ... but as far as afterschool goes, kids can leave & hop into any car to get home.

I've not seen the press conf. today - but will view later - from what I've read on here, Tara says that Sara has met Tori. Tara would have read Sara's story this morning (the story in which Sara says she's never met Tori, as we all did). It doesn't make sense for 1 person to say they'd never met Tori, and the other to say she had ... imo there would be no reason to lie about something like this - meeting your best friend's child...unless you had something to hide, or your friend (Tara) was setting you (Sara) up to look that way.

Thanks for clearing that up......Tara "best friend" so I just assumed she meant Sara since she said Sara was her best friend.

I would not necessarily assume that Tara had read the article. She said she does not have a computer and unless she went out and bought a paper....:confused:

[tarabull1]

Now at the rate this thing is going, I'd be tempted to say it's Princess Blossom Pepper Doodle Von Yum Yum, the cat from "Fetch With Ruff Ruffman", a children's TV show.

But could it be Linda Jacklin, the aunt who organized Tori's Ride Home? You know, the one with the same last name as the son of Tara's father's first wife, who lives in Alberta, but not in Calgary?


SO you mean John Jacklin's mommy?

I found a J Jacklin here in Gleichen, AB listed in our local telephone directory.

If you type Gleichen, AB into a google map search you will see how close it is to the Siksika Indian Reserve # 146.

[BeetlebrowII]

Now, it mentions that Sara, friend of Tara, was married previously. Any guesses as to her first husband? I am getting the sickening feeling that things are all twisted up around each other here. What goes backwards goes forward, and on and on...

I think Rodney knows something about Sara that Tara does not want people to know.

Sara had been back in Woodstock for a week but had not seen the daughter of best best best friend for life Tara. Especially since Tori is 8 ans Sara has a daughter who is 9!! Hmmmm...ok Could be.

[BeetlebrowII]

Just googled Sara Leeper And Sarah Leeper in Canada........and there is NOTHING.....a big fat ZERO.....not ONE thing.....maybe someone else can try.....could she have moved back to Woodstock from the U.S.? :confused:

[Brynn2009]

BeetlebrowII Have a look on Canada 411 in Woodstock for S Leeper. The listing would be in line with the desciption of the house the interview took place at but that's all I've found.

[tarabull1]

BeetlebrowII Have a look on Canada 411 in Woodstock for S Leeper. The listing would be in line with the desciption of the house the interview took place at but that's all I've found.

I only see S Leeper in Tillsonburg - I know that's VERY close too Woodstock....but that's all I know for sure.

[virgogal]

It's Linda Jacklin....

I wish we knew who had reproduced with who!!!!

Same father but not the same mother?? So how does he adopt Jacklin as a name...unless the father impregnated sisters?

[virgogal]

On one of the Kellestine sites is a woman named Roxanne....Didn't Tara say she had a step-sister named Roxy at one point??

[Gugug]

SO you mean John Jacklin's mommy?

I found a J Jacklin here in Gleichen, AB listed in our local telephone directory.

If you type Gleichen, AB into a google map search you will see how close it is to the Siksika Indian Reserve # 146.

Yes, Gleichen would make sense.

I wasn't sure if Linda is John's mother, because she has been described as Tara's aunt and Tori's aunt variously in the media. I'm not sure if John is a half-brother, step-brother, or Tara's dad's first wife's child by another man, in which case I'm not sure they're even related at all. When people divorce, and have no offspring from the marriage, do their subsequent offspring become related, or does it end? Getting so confused.

[ginky41]

Weeks ago when the composite was first released, many people were absolutely certain it was Tara. I didn't see it. I DO see Sara in that composite. The side-by-side shot from lfpress.com is uncanny!

Certainly LE would know if that was Sara, right? I mean, the witness who described the suspect would be able to pick Sara out of a line-up, wouldn't they?

This would certainly explain why LE waited several weeks to release the composite..... Perhaps they suspected it was Sara all along (since they may have had the composite early on) but due to a lack of other evidence they finally had to release it and hope that they were flooded with tips.

Actually, if it was Sara that would explain a few things (the HS reference by Rodney, the familiarity by many, etc), but not necessarily a motive. Maybe Tara put it up to her for some reason?

In Sara's defense, perhaps she didn't answer the question about the lie detector because LE specifically told her not to discus it if she did. That makes sense to me. On the other hand, sure seems strange that she would be one of the ones asked to take a LDT. Hmmmmmmmmm.

[tarabull1]

It's Linda Jacklin....

I wish we knew who had reproduced with who!!!!

Same father but not the same mother?? So how does he adopt Jacklin as a name...unless the father impregnated sisters?

Hey you know what I don't WRITE the news I just reports it LOL

[...snipped] McDonald's brother, John Jacklin, hovered close behind them, ready to end the conference at a moment's notice.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/01/9312746-sun.html

(NOTE: there is picture at the link of JJ "hovering close behing")

[ginky41]

Yes, Gleichen would make sense.

I wasn't sure if Linda is John's mother, because she has been described as Tara's aunt and Tori's aunt variously in the media. I'm not sure if John is a half-brother, step-brother, or Tara's dad's first wife's child by another man, in which case I'm not sure they're even related at all. When people divorce, and have no offspring from the marriage, do their subsequent offspring become related, or does it end? Getting so confused.

"My best-friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with this girl that saw Ferris pass out at 31 flavors last night." Recited by heart.... :tonguewag:

Clearly that's poking fun at all the familial confusion in this case. I apologize ahead of time if that offended anyone. But seriously.....I can't even follow the braches anymore :confused:

[juliekan]

Hey you know what I don't WRITE the news I just reports it LOL

[...snipped] McDonald's brother, John Jacklin, hovered close behind them, ready to end the conference at a moment's notice.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/01/9312746-sun.html

(NOTE: there is picture at the link of JJ "hovering close behing")

from the article

McDonald's aunt, Linda Jacklin, reminded reporters about a motorcycle rally Saturday in Woodstock to highlight the case.

wasn't this the PC where JJ was the bouncer?

[tarabull1]

Hey you know what I don't WRITE the news I just reports it LOL

[...snipped] McDonald's brother, John Jacklin, hovered close behind them, ready to end the conference at a moment's notice.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/01/9312746-sun.html

(NOTE: there is picture at the link of JJ "hovering close behing")

Hinky meter can't help but raise when I see Tara also in this picture sporting her pony tail and long white coat. Like is THAT on purpose or what?

[tarabull1]

from the article

McDonald's aunt, Linda Jacklin, reminded reporters about a motorcycle rally Saturday in Woodstock to highlight the case.

wasn't this the PC where JJ was the bouncer?

I dunno sorry, hopefully someone can answer....

but a bouncer at a PC - just what every informative PC needs.

:thumbsup:

[Orleaner12]

I assumed that both her brother and HIS Mother lived in Alberta...I thought she said something, when asked by reporters what name her brother went by that he took HIS Mother's name and not MacDonald because "who would want to be a MacDonald" or something similar to that. Tara went by her step fathers name through high school, or so she says but reverted by to MacDonald? whatever happened to Stafford, Rodney's name.....are they divorced..how in the world would any welfare office keep up with this.......I am assuming she is on some sort of social assistance as nothing much is ever mentioned about whether she works etc. Also is she was living with her B/F wouldn't that be a no no is she was on Mother's Allowance...the whole state of affairs is rather confusing...are there any reserves in the area of Woodstock? Didn't she mention that Sara was part native.....:confused:

[tarabull1]

SNIPPED FOR SPACE.... Didn't she mention that Sara was part native.....:confused:

Sarah Leeper is half Ojibway - as per Sarah's interview.

[streeter]

Hi, folks, it's me Streeter. :D

I've been lurking the past few days, and watching the videos, but not posting because I'm still trying to put all my thoughts together. I'm not done yet, but I have a few observations from the past couple of days.

1. First and foremost: I agree with Beetle that Rodney HAS.IT.IN. for Sarah. BIG time. He was fuming all through the presser today (let's be honest, it was a presser about Sarah). I think he hated that they were focussing on her, I think he hated that Tara was expressing so much more emotion over Sarah than she has for Tori over the past month, and I thinks he HATES Sarah. I think Sarah is definitely the "girl from high school" he referred to in relation to the video. I think Sarah is the person Rebecca referred to when she said that she didn't know the person well enough to say for sure if it was her. Sarah plays a huge role in this mess and Rodney knows it. He may not even dislike her from the past, but he may have enough of a gut feeling about her role in Tori's disappearance that the rage is building up toward a real, live person now. Remember when Rebecca said that she feels she now has someone to whom she can direct her anger.

2. Who the heck needs a license to sell cars? A dealership owner, maybe. But do you really need a license? Regardless of that, she isn't working. You can tell by the wording. Hubby works in detailing and she has a license in so-and-so. Usually that means "I'm not working, but if I were, I'd be doing this." I'm not getting the connection with the car in the video like some folks here, but that's probably because I don't think the car is a suspect vehicle. (JMO)

3. The reporter yesterday prefaced a question with something to the effect of "Tara, forgive me if I'm snooping, but..." What?? You're a reporter, for heaven's sake!

4. Including Daryn in the presser yesterday was disgusting. Then Tara had the gall to scold parents who are talking to their kids about the case. Glass houses = don't throw stones, Tara. If Daryn really wanted to go out, she and Rodney should have said "I understand you want to go, but this is a grown up job. I'm sorry, honey." And then give him a hug. Geez...

5. I also noticed the "why protect Tori and not Daryn" comment.

6. Cops are focussing on Tara and BF (videotaping pressers and watching house), Sarah (as per Sarah herself), and Jacklin/John/JimBob/whateverhisnameis. All the people that went on the limo ride. Hmm...

7. If I were in Sarah's situation, my hubby would be supportive of my being supportive of my friend. He would NOT, however, for one minute tolerate me leaving him and my kids to go on a mystery ride to Toronto with a stranger to meet another stranger in the middle of a case where a child has been taken. At that point, DH would say NFW. And if I'd already done it, he would be mad as a hornet. How reckless for a mother of young children to get involved to that extent.

8. I firmly believe Rodney is innocent, and not just in the technical sense. Nobody could be prepared for this, but there's something about Rodney, maybe the fact that he's back in high school, trying to "fix" things in his life, and this has happened to him...I dunno. I can just feel how this is torturing him. I don't care what he's done in the past as a dad or as a person, if Tori is somewhere watching him, she should feel happy that of all the people standing in front of microphones over the past month, she has this one true champion.

9. Speaking of people in front of mikes, I think even Maitland is being spoonfed information by the investigative team. Either that, or she is one helluva good actress.

[Gugug]

Actually, if it was Sara that would explain a few things (the HS reference by Rodney, the familiarity by many, etc), but not necessarily a motive. Maybe Tara put it up to her for some reason?

In Sara's defense, perhaps she didn't answer the question about the lie detector because LE specifically told her not to discus it if she did. That makes sense to me. On the other hand, sure seems strange that she would be one of the ones asked to take a LDT. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Rodney had another wife who took a lie detector test, correct?

[Gugug]

http://www.insideprison.com/prison-gangs-canada.asp

[tarabull1]

snipped for space.....

#2. Who the heck needs a license to sell cars? A dealership owner, maybe. But do you really need a license? Regardless of that, she isn't working. You can tell by the wording. Hubby works in detailing and she has a license in so-and-so. Usually that means "I'm not working, but if I were, I'd be doing this." I'm not getting the connection with the car in the video like some folks here, but that's probably because I don't think the car is a suspect vehicle. (JMO)


Streeter - Just to address your #2.

Ironically also point #2 - at this link - just FYI:http://www.omvic.on.ca/info/faqs/dealer_registration_faqs.htm

2. How many vehicles can an individual or company sell without being registered as a dealer?

None. Ontario's legislation does not provide for a number of vehicles that an individual or company can sell without the benefit of registration. Unless an individual is selling his/her personal vehicle privately, anybody buying or selling vehicles in order to gain a profit – or as part of their regular business operations (e.g. car rental companies, municipalities, or others that need to periodically renew their fleets) – must be registered as a dealer

My point in my earlier post and the relevancy to the mystery mobile would be that a registered dealer and auto body shop (Sarah's other half) would have access to likely more than their own personal vehicle. Just an observation. Perception is a funny thing.

[BeetlebrowII]

BeetlebrowII Have a look on Canada 411 in Woodstock for S Leeper. The listing would be in line with the desciption of the house the interview took place at but that's all I've found.

Thanks Brynn!!

[virgogal]

You need an OMVIC liscence to selll cars in Canada...so she probably has one. It does not mean that she s workng. In fact I think I read in the LFP that she is a full time housewife (archaic term...but whatever!)

[tarabull1]

You need an OMVIC liscence to selll cars in Canada...so she probably has one. It does not mean that she s workng. In fact I think I read in the LFP that she is a full time housewife (archaic term...but whatever!)

EXACTLY...totally believable IMO.

[Also snipped from the article written as a result of Sarah's interview.....] The afternoon Tori was abducted, she was waiting at home for her own children to get off the school bus — as she does every day, Leeper said.

[juliekan]

Thank you Streeter :thumbup: good post.

Now where oh where is J. Goris?

[streeter]

Streeter - Just to address your #2.

Ironically also point #2 - at this link - just FYI:http://www.omvic.on.ca/info/faqs/dealer_registration_faqs.htm

2. How many vehicles can an individual or company sell without being registered as a dealer?

None. Ontario's legislation does not provide for a number of vehicles that an individual or company can sell without the benefit of registration. Unless an individual is selling his/her personal vehicle privately, anybody buying or selling vehicles in order to gain a profit – or as part of their regular business operations (e.g. car rental companies, municipalities, or others that need to periodically renew their fleets) – must be registered as a dealer

My point in my earlier post and the relevancy to the mystery mobile would be that a registered dealer and auto body shop (Sarah's other half) would have access to likely more than their own personal vehicle. Just an observation. Perception is a funny thing.

Gotcha. And they'd probably have connections in the limo rental business, too. :ohmy:

[Gugug]

Now that it appears that several "cultures" overlap this story, the code of silence within those "cultures" is going to make this case very hard to crack.

It may take a loose cannon to break this one. But there may be a few of those around at the moment.

The poor child, getting caught up in this.

[Gugug]

Sarah Leeper is half Ojibway - as per Sarah's interview.

Tara's brother would be of Blackfoot descent, if he and his mother live on the Blackfoot reserve, as Tara says they do.

[Orleaner12]

Tara had a purple streak in her hair today...was that because it was Tori's favourite colour:ohmy:

[tarabull1]

Gotcha. And they'd probably have connections in the limo rental business, too. :ohmy:

OMG streeter I AM SO reading your mail! Catching your drift! Picking up what you are laying down my friend! :thumbup:

[Gugug]

my bold

I say this every time I read something like that: ~ I will not believe a mother would sacrifice her own child for anything.
I get proven wrong constantly. Sigh.

It is hard for a good person, who has not experienced the dark side of human nature personally, to understand the true meaning of "evil".

Whatever has taken Tori, it is evil.

[Gugug]

http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/archives/reference/indian_inuit/mcr_4027?maxwidth=1200&maxheight=1000&mode=navigator&upperleftx=0&upperlefty=0&lowerrightx=5296&lowerrighty=5640&mag=0.125

[iveyguy]

OMG streeter I AM SO reading your mail! Catching your drift! Picking up what you are laying down my friend! :thumbup:

I'm on the Streeter Train too... Your observations about Rodney at today's press conference are BANG ON! He either hates Sara, or thinks that she's involved, or probably both. And I just don't think there's anyway that Rodney is involved... my heart really goes out to the guy... he's hurting.

But Sara? All of sudden moves back from Woodstock - claims not to know Tori at all, despite only living 30 minutes South of Woodstock for the last 6 years... (haven't Tara and Rodney been separated for six years??? Maybe a coincidence.) Now she's Tara's best friend and a dead-ringer for the composite sketch ("looks NOTHING like her" - Tara). The limo ride sealed the deal for me... I think she's part of this plot SOMEHOW.

But I still think the limo was a police set-up. It just came at the perfect time, under the perfect premise... but yet it was so vague and mysterious, and LE virtually ignored it! It had to be a set-up and I hope they got six good hours worth of auido and video.

How long does Rodney continue to hold united pressers with Tara?

[tarabull1]

http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/archives/reference/indian_inuit/mcr_4027?maxwidth=1200&maxheight=1000&mode=navigator&upperleftx=0&upperlefty=0&lowerrightx=5296&lowerrighty=5640&mag=0.125

Good job Gugug! The closest to Woodstock being Glebe Farm 40B & Six Nations 40. And looks like both are part of Six Nations of the Grand River http://www.aboriginalcanada.gc.ca/acp/community/site.nsf/en/fn121.html

[Gugug]

Good job Gugug! The closest to Woodstock being Glebe Farm 40B & Six Nations 40. And looks like both are part of Six Nations of the Grand River http://www.aboriginalcanada.gc.ca/acp/community/site.nsf/en/fn121.html

I was reading about land claims and Six Nations. I read also about the issue of online gaming. And then there's this, which is something else entirely:

http://www.publicintegrity.org/investigations/tobacco/articles/entry/1230/

And I started thinking, what if this little girl has somehow gotten caught up in something much, much bigger than we think? I know, it's a conspiracy theory. Or not. Since there's nothing to go on, what if?

[streeter]

I'm on the Streeter Train too... Your observations about Rodney at today's press conference are BANG ON! He either hates Sara, or thinks that she's involved, or probably both. And I just don't think there's anyway that Rodney is involved... my heart really goes out to the guy... he's hurting.

But Sara? All of sudden moves back from Woodstock - claims not to know Tori at all, despite only living 30 minutes South of Woodstock for the last 6 years... (haven't Tara and Rodney been separated for six years??? Maybe a coincidence.) Now she's Tara's best friend and a dead-ringer for the composite sketch ("looks NOTHING like her" - Tara). The limo ride sealed the deal for me... I think she's part of this plot SOMEHOW.

But I still think the limo was a police set-up. It just came at the perfect time, under the perfect premise... but yet it was so vague and mysterious, and LE virtually ignored it! It had to be a set-up and I hope they got six good hours worth of auido and video.

How long does Rodney continue to hold united pressers with Tara?

Iveyguy, I've been thinking about the limo ride being a set up, and there's one thing that's bothering me about it:

How would the police be able to control who goes into the limo with Tara? We know they are focussing in on Tara, Sara, brother, and BF (by association). All of whom were in the limo.

Do you think they heard something from the limo and that's why they're investigating these individuals so intensely? Or do you think they knew beforehand that there was some association between them and somehow manipulated the situation so that all four would be in the vehicle?

See, I just can't see the cops going to all that trouble only to have Tara invite Rodney or some other "non-suspect" on the ride.

What do you think?

We do know that the whole thing was a rouse, either by Tara or LE or the "benefactor," because nobody has taken advantage, and Tori has not been found. That is assuming, however, that this is a kidnap situation. Also, of all the cases in the world and all the airports in the world, why would this wealthy person who lost a child make this enormously generous offer for Tori but not for Caylee/Hayleigh/Sandra et al?

Sara confirmed it for me yesterday in her interview that this did not happen. Her description was that it "happened just the way Tara described it." In other words, "go read the transcript of that interview, because I don't want to retell the story in case I screw it up." :angry:

[virgogal]

I looked on another site (which shall remain nameless...see today's 'sticky')

Found Sarah Garland with TM on her 'friend' list. I'm not sure it's the same person though! A bit afraind to post a link after the warning!

SL & SG may be different people!

[BeetlebrowII]

EXACTLY...totally believable IMO.

[Also snipped from the article written as a result of Sarah's interview.....] The afternoon Tori was abducted, she was waiting at home for her own children to get off the school bus — as she does every day, Leeper said.

Actually if her husband was at work, she would either have to be picking up her kids or waiting for them to get home. From what she said she does not live close to Tara and if she picked up her kid (s) then the kids and Tori her kid (s) would be on the video.

I know her 9 yr old daughter would get out at the SAME time as Tori. Unless someone else picked up her children I would say she is in the clear. Unless she went and picked up Tori then took her home quickly so she could meet her kids when they got off the bus. She would not have time to do something to Tori. I hope LE interviewed her kids. I'm starting to think she may have an alibi.....maybe. Especially if both her kids back her up.....that would mean they would both have to lie to LE.

[BeetlebrowII]

I looked on another site (which shall remain nameless...see today's 'sticky')

Found Sarah Garland with TM on her 'friend' list. I'm not sure it's the same person though! A bit afraind to post a link after the warning!

SL & SG may be different people!

I wonder if that is her maiden name (or first marriage). I wonder what her husbands first name is.

[BeetlebrowII]

I think that composite is a sketch of Christina Ricci (http://patrishka.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/christina-ricci-nomakeup.jpg)!!!!!!

http://patrishka.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/christina-ricci-nomakeup.jpg

baaaahaaaaaaa LOL
:tonguewag:

Hey don't laugh, the way this is going Cristina Ricci is probably related to them somehow.....:w00t:

It is a striking resemblence!!

[n/t]

Where's the link to today's PC? Anybody have it? TIA

[n/t]

I hope there's a break in the case soon. I'm getting fed up with the circus.

Where's Tori?

[BeetlebrowII]

I'm on the Streeter Train too... Your observations about Rodney at today's press conference are BANG ON! He either hates Sara, or thinks that she's involved, or probably both. And I just don't think there's anyway that Rodney is involved... my heart really goes out to the guy... he's hurting.

But Sara? All of sudden moves back from Woodstock - claims not to know Tori at all, despite only living 30 minutes South of Woodstock for the last 6 years... (haven't Tara and Rodney been separated for six years??? Maybe a coincidence.) Now she's Tara's best friend and a dead-ringer for the composite sketch ("looks NOTHING like her" - Tara). The limo ride sealed the deal for me... I think she's part of this plot SOMEHOW.

But I still think the limo was a police set-up. It just came at the perfect time, under the perfect premise... but yet it was so vague and mysterious, and LE virtually ignored it! It had to be a set-up and I hope they got six good hours worth of auido and video.

How long does Rodney continue to hold united pressers with Tara?

ITA Ivey guy,

Rodney could not look more innocent. He is obviously becoming deeply disturbed by Tara's actions at this point. It probably wouldn't hurt for LE to do a little "review" type interview with Rodney now, just in case he forgot to mention something. :tonguewag:

:w00t: So Sara only lived 30 minutes away from her best best best, always supportive, always there in time of need, take a bullet for her friend and she never saw Tori in 6 years (and she has a 9yr old girl). Plus Tara said earlier that she put her "bf" on the school list but this turns out to be someone who lived at her old apartments.

Why is Tara pushing this "shes my best best never do wrong ever" friend??? because she obviously is not. But if both her and Tara are involved then I can see Sara completely standing behind Tara at her interviews....and if you ask me, lookin kinda sheepish.

[BeetlebrowII]

LOL BeetlebrowII
At least when I watch a movie with Christina Ricci in it, Ms. Ricci's performance is convincing :laugh:

baaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaa LOL

:thumbsup: She can play the part of Sara because there will obviously be a movie released about this case. No writer could make this up!!!

[tarabull1]

Where's the link to today's PC? Anybody have it? TIA

hey n/t...

sorry for the delay...it's available here:

http://www.mogulus.com/lfpress

[BeetlebrowII]

Where's the link to today's PC? Anybody have it? TIA

Its at the link you provided earlier before the pressor. It was actually up right after todays pressor was over (can u believe it). Just go to "on demand" then May 09 videos. :smile:

[BeetlebrowII]

hey n/t...

sorry for the delay...it's available here:

http://www.mogulus.com/lfpress

Tara, have you found anything with Sara's husband's name on it?.

[days of yore]

I read a post on the LFP chat that this woman came forward and was questioned. That's all that was said, so I assumed that it was a dead end lead.

[n/t]

hey n/t...

sorry for the delay...it's available here:

http://www.mogulus.com/lfpress

Thank you kindly. I just posted a video on the links thread. A video I found while searching for today's PC.

Rodney is getting frustrated and I don't blame him. I'm not even related to Tori and I'm tired and fed up with the games. Someone needs to step up and tell police where Tori is. Someone knows where she is!

Also, as much as I respect CW, I disagree with her sticky and I will PM her to let her know why facebook is important in this case. Help Find Tori website was set up by Rodney's family on facebook and he believes even bad publicity is better than no publicity at all. <paraphrasing>

I admire him for that. He wants his daughter found and if one clue can help bring her home, that's all that matters.

[days of yore]

Actually if her husband was at work, she would either have to be picking up her kids or waiting for them to get home. From what she said she does not live close to Tara and if she picked up her kid (s) then the kids and Tori her kid (s) would be on the video.

I know her 9 yr old daughter would get out at the SAME time as Tori. Unless someone else picked up her children I would say she is in the clear. Unless she went and picked up Tori then took her home quickly so she could meet her kids when they got off the bus. She would not have time to do something to Tori. I hope LE interviewed her kids. I'm starting to think she may have an alibi.....maybe. Especially if both her kids back her up.....that would mean they would both have to lie to LE.

Can't figure out the "why", though....If it is true, and was orchestrated by Tara, at least my gut tells me that Tori will be found alive and well....

[days of yore]

My understanding was that there were 3 people that could sign the kids out from school - ie/ take them out early. And Tara said 1 of those people were her friend that lives in the complex Tara used to live at - she didn't give the friend's name - so imo, Tara wasn't referring to Sara. Also - these names are provided to the schools to sign your kids out ... but as far as afterschool goes, kids can leave & hop into any car to get home.

I've not seen the press conf. today - but will view later - from what I've read on here, Tara says that Sara has met Tori. Tara would have read Sara's story this morning (the story in which Sara says she's never met Tori, as we all did). It doesn't make sense for 1 person to say they'd never met Tori, and the other to say she had ... imo there would be no reason to lie about something like this - meeting your best friend's child...unless you had something to hide, or your friend (Tara) was setting you (Sara) up to look that way.


I wonder if the school would at least confirm that Tara is being honest in saying that "sarah" isn't on that list and just being protected??

[Hope4Tori]

Tara, have you found anything with Sara's husband's name on it?.

Hey BeetlebrowII - and everyone here!- Just sneaking in for a moment with LOTS on my mind as I quietly and peacefully follow the board - but could not resist your question as I had come up with this info - hope this link helps! Perhaps Rick is Sara Leeper's husband?

previous link doesn't work - SORRY - I don't know how to copy but if you type in google as follows - "leeper, woodstock, on" - click on the first story that comes up entitled - Mary Ann Leeper's dream a shinny reality - Woodstock Sentinel ... www.oxfordreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1344244 - 112k

Thanks everyone for your kind comments about me deciding to get away - I guess you and Dr. J are right Beetlebrow - I know now I cannot let go completely until Tori is found safe and sound! But I am trying for balance - time will tell if I succeed!

See you again sometime soon when I have something of value to add!

[BeetlebrowII]

LOL
What was the remake of that one movie Christine Ricci was in? Oh I remember now........

The theme song went a little like this I believe

"They're creepy and they're kooky, mysterious and spooky, they're all together ooky, The Addams Family"

:tongueside:

:laugh: OMg a spew my drink moment.....thanks for that good laugh!! This case is getting so frustrating I needed that. Hey I know who could play Lurch :w00t:

[BeetlebrowII]

Hey BeetlebrowII - and everyone here!- Just sneaking in for a moment with LOTS on my mind as I quietly and peacefully follow the board - but could not resist your question as I had come up with this info - hope this link helps! Perhaps Rick is Sara Leeper's husband?

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Thanks everyone for your kind comments about me deciding to get away - I guess you and Dr. J are right Beetlebrow - I know now I cannot let go completely until Tori is found safe and sound! But I am trying for balance - time will tell if I succeed!

See you again sometime soon when I have something of value to add!

HA!!! I knew you couldn't leave!! I'm so glad you came back to say hi. Take all the time you need hun. This won't be solved in a day. We all miss you and trust me, you will probably get numerous PMs if something really BIG happens!!. See ya whenever :wink:

[days of yore]

Thank you Streeter :thumbup: good post.

Now where oh where is J. Goris?

On the LFP chat, the moderator confirmed that the reporter was told that James has been in the house on every occasion that there was a press conference.

[iveyguy]

See, I just can't see the cops going to all that trouble only to have Tara invite Rodney or some other "non-suspect" on the ride. What do you think?

I think there's only four possibilities and based on process of elimination I like the undercover sting scenario the best. The limo ride:

1. Didn't happen at all.
2. Happened exactly as Tara tells it.
3. Happened exactly as Tara tells it, but was a set-up by LE.
3. Happened, except that Tara met someone else other than a "benefactor".


I just don't believe that she made the entire thing up, and not just because of the iPhone photos, but because of the absurdity of the entire situation... if Tara wanted to completely fabricate a story about a benefactor, why make it so unbelieveable??? A simple "he called me out of the blue" would have sufficed. So scratch #1.

And for reasons covered above, I just can't believe this ACTUALLY happened FOR REAL. So scratch #2.

So it's either a set-up, or some scenario where the group travelled somenoe to meet someone. But if they did travel to meet an associate or Tori or someone else... why publicize it? Maybe because you're a media hound and want to legitimize Tori's disappearance with the offer of a ransom/reward? But again, why tell this almost unbelieveable story in great detail, just to lie about a reward that doesn't exist?

It just seems that LE users undercover operations so much these days. Undercover LE helped to solve the Karissa Boudreau case and I just know that the OPP will use it (likely are using it) at some point during this case. So how did they get the four "suspects" in the car? I think they just got lucky! They figured that Tara would go, probably with now-disappeared boyfriend, and hopefully without Rodney (initially it was 1 pm and Rodney was in school). And LE doubled their pleasure when Tara invited some friends.... to me it's just the most likely explanation. I know that LE commonly uses this type of tactic and it would explain virtually everything about the story. Unfortunatley, it didn't seem to "work"... at least not yet.

[BeetlebrowII]

Hey BeetlebrowII - and everyone here!- Just sneaking in for a moment with LOTS on my mind as I quietly and peacefully follow the board - but could not resist your question as I had come up with this info - hope this link helps! Perhaps Rick is Sara Leeper's husband?

previous link doesn't work - SORRY - I don't know how to copy but if you type in google as follows - "leeper, woodstock, on" - click on the first story that comes up entitled - Mary Ann Leeper's dream a shinny reality - Woodstock Sentinel ... www.oxfordreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1344244 - 112k

Thanks everyone for your kind comments about me deciding to get away - I guess you and Dr. J are right Beetlebrow - I know now I cannot let go completely until Tori is found safe and sound! But I am trying for balance - time will tell if I succeed!

See you again sometime soon when I have something of value to add!

Good find H4T!! I think this is him. Where is Springfurd and how close to Woodstock?.

SHINNY???? :huh:

[n/t]

I had to stop the conference at 21 sec mark. I couldn't take Tara anymore. She showed more emotion talking about her friend than she ever did for Tori.

If she thinks the public is disgusting, I throw it right back at her.

She makes me ill.

I'm out....

Tori, hope you're still alive. Whatever happened to you, you didn't deserve any of it. :rose:

[streeter]

Iveyguy, as I've said before, I have to catch myself sometimes when I'm speculating about this case. Sometimes you just chase your tail for so long that any new little speculative tidbit sends you off in the wrong direction. For this reason, I've been reminding myself all along that the simplist explanation is usually the correct one.

And what you've described is, indeed, what makes the most sense. I hope they did get something, and they're just gathering backup info now.

Regarding the home searches, was there any mention of warrants? Didn't Sara say that she invited them in without a warrant? Or, if they had a search warrant, maybe she's just saying that she didn't look at it or didn't need to see it? :confused:

I could see this being a problem in a future trial. I hate to see people get off on technicalities. :cursing:

I would presume that if LE didn't bring warrants, then maybe they aren't seriously considered as supects, or worse, they do consider them suspects but didn't have enough evidence to support the warrants.

[streeter]

I had to stop the conference at 21 sec mark. I couldn't take Tara anymore. She showed more emotion talking about her friend than she ever did for Tori.

If she thinks the public is disgusting, I throw it right back at her.

She makes me ill.

I'm out....

Tori, hope you're still alive. Whatever happened to you, you didn't deserve any of it. :rose:

I, too, was disgusted, and I only caught the last ten minutes. I'll watch the beginning of it tomorrow. You can only take so much Tara in one day, I guess. :shrug:

Does she not realize that, when she goes off on the public like she did in today's presser, about how she can't wait until Tori is found so that everyone will be sorry and have feet in their mouths and will be groveling at her feet, the public is thinking...but Tara, you should be saying you can't wait until Tori is found because YOU'LL HAVE HER BACK!

Doesn't she watch herself on these pressers? She's a narcissist, for heaven's sake. She should be watching herself over and over. Doesn't she see herself? Doesn't she hear the words coming out of her mouth?

Tara, you can't wait for an end to this because you want vengeance. Revenge is a sweeter result than the return of Tori. Anger at the "negative" public is making you lash out. Is this kind of emotional lashing out, I wonder, what got us all here in the first place?

Her complaints about "negativity" are wearing thin. Well, it's kind of a negative situation, isn't it? Her ravings about negativity remind me of when I was a part of a renowned direct-selling company that shall remain nameless, and whenever someone questioned the outdated business plan or when concerns were raised about how the commission scheme seemed very pyramid-like, they were bashed and/or banished for being negative. I learned after awhile that negativity=truth in some situations, like when someone is trying to sell you a bridge in New York. :unsure:

[Orleaner12]

I doubt the police searched any of the houses without proper authorized warrants..I don't think they would risk that...everything would have to be done legally IMO..... the same with taking the computers.....

[M_J]

Hi all.

I don't think I will be posting much more.

I don't think I have much else to add in, but I will when I can. With all the stuff going on on 'nameless' websites, and people badmouthing, yada yada yada.. I don't know.

I feel as though I have said my opinions many times, and I will try to add my thoughs as often as I can, when I feel it is appropriate.

Thanks to everyone that has been so kind, and welcoming to me. Please, do not hesitate to ever ask any questions about this case if you have any.

I will do what I can to support finding Tori, and helping those of you who feel the same way.

I don't think the pc's are showing much new info, and it is heartwrenching to see them daily.

I wish you all the best.

Don't worry, I'm not gone for good.. haha I'm just not posting as much!:wub:

[doctor_J]

sWhen you go to the ifpress site linked above, how do you pull the current pc? I tried the date, as well as Tara and Tori M. in search engine but no luck. I have the same problem every day if I miss it live. It's supposed to be "ON DEMAND" right. Someone help me out here.:confused:

[iveyguy]

Regarding the home searches, was there any mention of warrants? Didn't Sara say that she invited them in without a warrant? Or, if they had a search warrant, maybe she's just saying that she didn't look at it or didn't need to see it?

From today's PC, no mention of a warrant. Tara said that both she and Sara invited them in. Would they search without a warrant? Good question. LE's competentcy is certainly under review here... and I've been giving them the benefit of doubt throughout... but only time will tell.

They'll analyze her computer and perhaps try to trace some cell phone conversations. They know an awful lot about her and her past and what was going on prior to the disappearance. I'm just really suprised that she hasn't been brought in for more intensive questioning. She's clearly a suspect, but LE has been passive and scattered. I'm beginning to wonder if LE doesn't have that much evidence on her and is really scrambling to search for more suspects...

[streeter]

sWhen you go to the ifpress site linked above, how do you pull the current pc? I tried the date, as well as Tara and Tori M. in search engine but no luck. I have the same problem every day if I miss it live. It's supposed to be "ON DEMAND" right. Someone help me out here.:confused:

Hi, doctor. See the video screen that shows up at that site? You're looking within that. Ignore the rest of the page, the banner, etc.

Look at the grey strip at the bottom of the video screen, there are a few buttons. In the bottom left, there is a "power button" graphic. Beside that, there are four buttons "embed" "full screen" and below those "on air" and "on demand." "On air" is lit up and "on demand" is dimmed. Click on "on demand."

The video screen will shrink and you'll get an "on demand" list consisting of April 2009 and May 2009. All the pressers are filed here. Click on May 2009 and scroll down and you'll see the dates.

Hope this helps!

[doctor_J]

:thumbsup:STREETER-----Thank you, Thank you. I never would have figured that out.!!

[BeetlebrowII]

I had to stop the conference at 21 sec mark. I couldn't take Tara anymore. She showed more emotion talking about her friend than she ever did for Tori.

If she thinks the public is disgusting, I throw it right back at her.

She makes me ill.

I'm out....

Tori, hope you're still alive. Whatever happened to you, you didn't deserve any of it. :rose:

Aww N/T.....I don't think I've ever seen you this upset!!. Take a few days break, then watch the video. It is worth it just to see Rodney take Tara down!!. It is obvious now he doesn't trust her.

Out of all these cases that we follow.....I truely think there is a good chance Tori is alive. Tara is going to bury herself.

n/t :rose:

[doctor_J]

Streeter--I don't have any buttons at the bottom of the video and can't raise any with the mouse.This is frustrating. I like to watch Tara in action, not just the clips on LFP.

Bottom of acreen says ifpress.com. Below that are boxes to choose favorites, bookmark, then comments.

[virgogal]

Kinetic?? Are you online tonight?? Just tried to PM you but it said you are not accepting PM's!?:confused:

[doctor_J]

I quess I'll have to give up.No gray strip. No buttons. Just a choice of languages and channels. GRRRrrrr

[doctor_J]

Hey doctor_J, I put the links to the full vids in the links section all you have to do is press play
:wink:

Thanks so much. I checked earlier and couldn't find one. Just had to try the ifpressmogulus link which does not seem to work "on demand" for me.

[Orleaner12]

Hello H4T, nice to see your post...sorry that MJ and others are leaving but I can understand why....think I will ease off too unless something breaks in the case.. tired of watching Tara and the crap sprouting from her mouth...feel so sorry for Rodney as he is so sincere IMO.. I vowed after the Scott Peterson crime that I wouldn't get involved so much with these crimes anymore and lasted until the Maddy McCann story but only read the forum from the 3 A's...this one is sad mainly because it is on our own turf, so to speak.. so that is what sparked my interest...at day 28 I gave up hope of anyone finding Tori alive but hope to g d that I am wrong.....

[puppyraiser]

Did any other locals catch a blurb on the 11pm news about the focus shifting out West? I caught the preview in passing but was unable to see the 11pm news (CTV or A Channel) to catch the full story.

[Gugug]

Did any other locals catch a blurb on the 11pm news about the focus shifting out West? I caught the preview in passing but was unable to see the 11pm news (CTV or A Channel) to catch the full story.

Didn't see it. I think that's probably a result of TM saying the police searched her bro's place in that city, er, province, out west. Remember, she has been trying to shift the focus away from Woodstock for some time. Just because it came from her does not mean that she knows what the police are doing.

I agree with another poster that the simplest explanation is probably the best. However, I know that the police must be considering every possibility. They know that it is dangerous to get stuck on one track. Going down one track while ignoring all other prospects is a sure way to make an investigation stall or burn out altogether.

[Gugug]

This must be hard for Rodney. Whatever frustration he is feeling is about to boil over. However, his son is still with TM. If he doesn't toe the line, will he be able to see his child every day? Does he have a good idea of what has happened to Tori, and can't say anything yet?

TM looks ready to snap, too. Is more pressure on than we know already?

[streeter]

CTV Calgary (http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090508/CGY_Tori_StaffordSearch_090508/20090508/?hub=CalgaryHome) confirms that it was the RCMP that searched Tara's brothers, uh, home (see pic at link). :unsure:

I've bolded some interesting tidbits:

The search for a missing Ontario girl has moved to Alberta.


CTV News has learned that two homes in Cluny have been searched in connection to the disappearance of Tori Stafford.


One month ago, the eight-year-old went missing from Woodstock, Ontario.


Stafford's uncle says RCMP officers searched his Cluny home on Wednesday. He also says officers searched his mother's home in the same town.


John Jacqlin, who also goes by the name John Ferraz, says he welcomed officers into his home. He says he would do anything to help in the search for Stafford.


A local restaurant in the town say RCMP also visited them.


The owner of Chicken on the Way says police had received reports of Tori Stafford sightings in the town. So they asked to put up posters of the girl with contact information in case she is spotted again.


So we have yet another town name -- Cluny -- and another relative alias -- Ferraz. I'm starting to think we should start a database of relatives and their various names and various locations. :scared:

[kelloggirl]

I had to stop the conference at 21 sec mark. I couldn't take Tara anymore. She showed more emotion talking about her friend than she ever did for Tori.

If she thinks the public is disgusting, I throw it right back at her.

She makes me ill.

I'm out....

Tori, hope you're still alive. Whatever happened to you, you didn't deserve any of it. :rose:

I hear you. She is starting to remind me entirely too much of a horrible combination of both Cindy Anthony and her odious offspring Casey. Let me count the ways:

1. Primary concern is what is being said about HER
2. Inconsistent stories
3. Surrounded by shady cast of characters
4. Odd statements about child's care (Tara: Hopefully she's being bathed (by an evil abductor, really?!?!); George Anthony: "Oh, I'm sure a nice family has her")
5. Mysterious critical element of story (limo = nanny) no one has seen or can verify
6. Blaming public/media for not finding missing child
7. Mysterious knowledge of kidnappers motivations
8. Telling everyone they'll be "sorry" when child is found
9. Sure child is far, far away from home (Tori is in Europe or New York, Caylee is in Puerto Rico or New York)

At least Tori has Rodney, poor Caylee had no one on her side except the men and women of LE. :crying:

OK, I'm about to go off on a rant here, so read at your own peril:

Don't you get it, Tara? YOU control the press conferences. If YOU want the focus on Tori, YOU make it happen. YOU tell stories about her. YOU talk about how much YOU miss her. Tell her YOU'll never stop looking for her. YOU get out and there and post fliers on every surface you can find. Get volunteers together and YOU go search for her, like Nancy Moyer's friends have done EVERY weekend since she went missing, without fail. Do something besides standing there and blaming everyone else for not doing what YOU should be doing.

Then maybe YOU wouldn't have time to go find a lawyer to sue a bunch of random internet posters who might care more about your daughter than YOU seem to.

[Lovethechild]

Streeter,
Thanks for the links! That PC was hard to bear.....Tara this,Tara that....Sara this,Sara that....What about Tori? Rodney is Pissed....and it seems like its toward sara..IDK

[moonlite]

EXACTLY!!......to both points. :thumbsup:

Lets see......you agree to be interviewed, even invite the person onto your porch.....you don't mind if they take notes......you like the article they wrote.....but, you are very upset that they recorded you voice.......:confused: Not video.....voice. (why would you not want someone to hear your voice?....hmmmm)

You are soooo disturbed that you cannot EVER go back over to your best friend since 6th grade's house to give her support like you have been doing every day. Your best friend Tara thinks you can sue because since you did not know you were being recorded it is illegal.....after all your life is over.... Wah Wah Wah Wah Wah Boo Hoo

And what exactly does this have to do with finding Tori??.

Greetings"
Beetle Brow"

I agree with you' todays press release didn't seem to be about Tori. Nor did Tara, make a plea for Tori. I think Tara, just keeps changing things to fit. I'm wondering if Tara even realizes how incriminating she sounds?
The time-line still bothers me!! I'm wondering if Tara has a concrete alibi from 3:15 to 4:pm. Yes' I know she said she was home. But who can verify that?

Moonlite

[n/t]

"She has been here almost every single day since the entire situation has happened and now she feels uncomfortable to even come near me. . . . She doesn't look anything like the woman in the composite sketch. That composite sketch, as far as I'm concerned, I don't know exactly how accurate that could be because whoever the witness was probably didn't get a very good glimpse of the person."

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/09/9403031-sun.html


How does she know the witness probably didn't get a good glimpse of the person?:sneaky:

Most parents would be thrilled to have something, anything including a sketch of the alleged abductor. A clue to who may have their missing child. But no. Nope. Not Tara.

[n/t]

I hear you. She is starting to remind me entirely too much of a horrible combination of both Cindy Anthony and her odious offspring Casey. Let me count the ways:

1. Primary concern is what is being said about HER
2. Inconsistent stories
3. Surrounded by shady cast of characters
4. Odd statements about child's care (Tara: Hopefully she's being bathed (by an evil abductor, really?!?!); George Anthony: "Oh, I'm sure a nice family has her")
5. Mysterious critical element of story (limo = nanny) no one has seen or can verify
6. Blaming public/media for not finding missing child
7. Mysterious knowledge of kidnappers motivations
8. Telling everyone they'll be "sorry" when child is found
9. Sure child is far, far away from home (Tori is in Europe or New York, Caylee is in Puerto Rico or New York)

At least Tori has Rodney, poor Caylee had no one on her side except the men and women of LE. :crying:

OK, I'm about to go off on a rant here, so read at your own peril:

Don't you get it, Tara? YOU control the press conferences. If YOU want the focus on Tori, YOU make it happen. YOU tell stories about her. YOU talk about how much YOU miss her. Tell her YOU'll never stop looking for her. YOU get out and there and post fliers on every surface you can find. Get volunteers together and YOU go search for her, like Nancy Moyer's friends have done EVERY weekend since she went missing, without fail. Do something besides standing there and blaming everyone else for not doing what YOU should be doing.

Then maybe YOU wouldn't have time to go find a lawyer to sue a bunch of random internet posters who might care more about your daughter than YOU seem to.


You pointed out all the similarities and maybe that's why I'm so digusted with Tara because I followed Caylee's case and this is reminding me so much of that one. I pray for a better outcome for Tori but I'm losing hope.

Yes, thankfully Tori still has her dad who will never give up. I wonder if Rodney should step aside from these conferences. Let Tara continue shooting her mouth and continue slipping up in her statements.

Oh and Tara, I have a solution, if Daryn is bawling his eyes out, don't let him read facebook or any other site. He's just a kid. Too bad you didn't think of that.

[n/t]

I noticed I wrote 21 sec...it was 21 min mark. Too late to edit. lol

[n/t]

Didn't see it. I think that's probably a result of TM saying the police searched her bro's place in that city, er, province, out west. Remember, she has been trying to shift the focus away from Woodstock for some time. Just because it came from her does not mean that she knows what the police are doing.

I agree with another poster that the simplest explanation is probably the best. However, I know that the police must be considering every possibility. They know that it is dangerous to get stuck on one track. Going down one track while ignoring all other prospects is a sure way to make an investigation stall or burn out altogether.

They're probably running parallel investigations but so far the focus remains on the family regardless of what Tara thinks.

The search of her step brothers home and his mom's home speaks volumes out in Calgary or wherever they live. Searching the friend's home 3 times is also quite telling.

I hope law enforcement gets the break they need. It's time for an arrest or two and Tori needs to be found.

[n/t]

I think I threw out this theory early on.

I think Tori may have witnessed something and someone wanted to make sure she kept her mouth shut.

Didn't Tara say something about whoever may have taken Tori may have not wanted to go this far but they don't know what to do now?? Or something like that?

[n/t]

Aww N/T.....I don't think I've ever seen you this upset!!. Take a few days break, then watch the video. It is worth it just to see Rodney take Tara down!!. It is obvious now he doesn't trust her.

Out of all these cases that we follow.....I truely think there is a good chance Tori is alive. Tara is going to bury herself.

n/t :rose:

awww thanks for the rose. I usually step away when I get too frustrated. I go watch tv or read a book.

I hope she's found soon. No child deserves to go through this. Even if this turns out to be some horrible hoax and she's being kept somewhere, she's just a child and am sure misses the ones she loves.

[n/t]

CTV Calgary (http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090508/CGY_Tori_StaffordSearch_090508/20090508/?hub=CalgaryHome) confirms that it was the RCMP that searched Tara's brothers, uh, home (see pic at link). :unsure:

I've bolded some interesting tidbits:



So we have yet another town name -- Cluny -- and another relative alias -- Ferraz. I'm starting to think we should start a database of relatives and their various names and various locations. :scared:


Sheesh...no kidding. So where is Cluny? Why did Tara say Bassano? Did you look at the photo of her brother? It's all farm and fields. If that's where Tori is, they'll never find her. :sad:

[n/t]

Map

http://maps.google.ca/maps?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4GGLD_enCA310CA310&q=cluny,+alberta&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=ca&ei=ZHgFSrTmGMyYtgfrrtCKBw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1

[n/t]

Why do people assume aliases? What is John hiding from?:unsure:

[puppyraiser]

Thanks for the link, Streeter....I was pretty sure I'd heard something on CTV's news highlights.

[M_J]

Why do people assume aliases? What is John hiding from?:unsure:


Too many last different last names in that family if you ask me.

[n/t]

Another thing that got to me is Tara saying she's meeting with a lawyer next week regarding slanderous accusations against her. Why not spend the money on hiring a private investigator to look for your daughter?

What a waste of money!

[M_J]

Another thing that got to me is Tara saying she's meeting with a lawyer next week regarding slanderous accusations against her. Why not spend the money on hiring a private investigator to look for your daughter?

What a waste of money!


But - how is she going to possibly sue anybody that says something over the internet?

Hope shes not going to try to sue us, we've just been here for Tori.

[virgogal]

I think a database sounds like a great idea, actually!! Anyone here have any skill in that area??

Wow...John sure doesn't look so tough at his own....ummm....house/trailer/squat!

[n/t]

But - how is she going to possibly sue anybody that says something over the internet?

Hope shes not going to try to sue us, we've just been here for Tori.

She can't and her attorney will probably advise her that it's worthless. I think she's more upset with some people starting facebook sites accusing her of murder. She and Rodney have mentioned the person (s) in the PC's. Rodney has tried to get those sites shut down but the person (s) keep starting new ones.

Tara needs to realize that until law enforcement comes right out and clears her, people will continue to speculate. It's the nature of the beast. Family is always looked at first. This is not the first case and won't be the last.

She needs to get over it and put her entire focus on looking for her precious little girl and stop worrying about what people say about her on the internet. Waste of time and energy.

[M_J]

Tara said in Friday's PC that Sara can't come over because of the cameras..

uhh, last I checked, it was Tara that was calling the pressers there? No?

[n/t]

Tara said in Friday's PC that Sara can't come over because of the cameras..

uhh, last I checked, it was Tara that was calling the pressers there? No?

Another feel sorry for me statement. Sara had no problem giving LFP the interview but now she doesn't want to face the cameras? We've all seen her there before. What difference does it make if she's there or not? People in Woodstock know who she is? And if she has nothing to hide, why not go on camera and tell the world she has nothing to do with it?

According to Tara, Sara was upset that LFP recorded her during the intervew. The reporter was there at yesterday's PC and outright denied it. Why would Sara tell Tara she was recorded? Why lie? And why get upset that she was recorded? :confused:

[virgogal]

Perhaps she has contacted an attorney and has been told to distance herself from Tara??
I know if I were in her shoes...I would have retained a lawyer at the first moment my name was mentioned!!

[Skraps]

Ohhh so frustrating when I think the board is slow and then I remember it goes to a new link and I am behind a gazillion pages again!

Morning all.

Come home today Tori!
It is so frustrating, I feel like she is right there, just open that door or go down that street. It's like she is right in front of all of us and we are missing something so simple:wub:

[Skraps]

imo, if someone was saying that people were suspecting me, I would be "faze"d:ohmy:

Yup.
It would completely sicken me to think I was suspect in my own daughter's disappearance.

[Skraps]

Hey Lizzie,

I also do not believe this has to do with the bandido trial. But I never realized how many motorcycle clubs (most of them tame) there are in Woodstock and the surrounding areas. Tara obviously knows bikers and with some bike clubs there comes the question of drugs.

Tara's trouble with housing, lack of any permanent employment (also no one knows what boyfriend does for a living), multiple rumors of drug use, her inability to remember even the simplest things at the pressors, partying in the limo.....etc lead me to believe that Tara is most definitely involved with drugs in a very pertinant way but to what extent......only the police know. This also makes me wonder if someone did not take Tori away from Tara because they were concerned with Tori's welfare.

One more thing....Tara keeps referring to the abductor "THEY". She has never to my knowledge (I have watched all the pressors from the beginning) referred to the kidnapper in the singular. To me this points to a group which most likely means drugs.


Ya, it does seem obvious that she could easily say "SHE took my baby..."

But I wonder as a mom, if using words that take her away from specific people/men/women/etc allows her to take her mind away from what those people/men/women might be doing to her baby.

[kelloggirl]

OK, I have been thinking about the odd statement/slip up of Tara's - "Why would I protect Tori and not Daryn?" and trying to think of what that could mean if this is truly a case where Tara has hidden Tori away somewhere, together with n/t's theory that Tori witnessed something that requires protection.

One obvious answer is of course, some manner of illegal activity involving drugs.

Another much more sinister theory came to me last night involving live-in boyfriends and mothers who are too in love to turn in the man and "protect" their children.

I'm afraid to say much more since I'll probably get sued :rolleyes:, but I'm sure you can all read between the lines.

[Skraps]

It was interesting to hear Rodney say that maybe for all anyone knows, some kid at school was with Tori and she banged her head, died and the kid rolled her in a pile of leaves.

hinky meter.... as Daryn enters left...

[virgogal]

I dunno Skraps...I can't imagine if Daryn were involved he would be able to keep it a secret. Besides, if it were an accident, what would be the motive for covering it up?

[Orleaner12]

as per other sites there seems to be a lot of balloon events planned for the next couple of weeks....everyone is getting in on the act.. think it is great that these people want to keep her name and plight out there but not sure how balloons are going to achieve that....:huh: posters, yes.........environmentalists may not like that......

[BeetlebrowII]

I dunno Skraps...I can't imagine if Daryn were involved he would be able to keep it a secret. Besides, if it were an accident, what would be the motive for covering it up?

Because if the family had previously been investigated by Canada's child services (don't know what this is called) it is possible Daryn would be taken away from his family.

However, I think the Daryn scenario is unlikely considering the video with an adult woman taking Tori away.

I think we can definitely say that Tara is very focused on money and revenge.....who thinks about sueing people on the internet for their comments when your 8yr old daughter is missing??

Tara is mad......she is redirecting her anger every time something happens because she cannot direct it at the person or persons who have/killed Tori without implicating herself or someone she is protecting.

I think we finally have some clues now, the news has finally started to question obvious inconsistancies, and Tara is starting to lose control IMO.

I think we just need to watch and wait as the truth seems to be slowly starting to unfold. I hope the truth isn't as ugly as I sense it might be. :sneaky:

[BeetlebrowII]

as per other sites there seems to be a lot of balloon events planned for the next couple of weeks....everyone is getting in on the act.. think it is great that these people want to keep her name and plight out there but not sure how balloons are going to achieve that....:huh: posters, yes.........environmentalists may not like that......

I really liked the T-shirt that Rodney made. I think he could sell them and use the money to help look for Tori. Of course only if you know who had no involvement with this. :thumbsup:

[Amy]

"She has been here almost every single day since the entire situation has happened and now she feels uncomfortable to even come near me. . . . She doesn't look anything like the woman in the composite sketch. That composite sketch, as far as I'm concerned, I don't know exactly how accurate that could be because whoever the witness was probably didn't get a very good glimpse of the person."

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/09/9403031-sun.html


How does she know the witness probably didn't get a good glimpse of the person?:sneaky:

Most parents would be thrilled to have something, anything including a sketch of the alleged abductor. A clue to who may have their missing child. But no. Nope. Not Tara.

Odd statement to make, since I think I read in the Sara interview from a couple of days ago that even Sara tho't there was a resemblance in the composite to her? (Not inferring in any way that she th't she was the person, just that there was a resemblance.)

If the person who was tapped for the composite (IIRC, it was the fellow in the video who was walking w/his son?) it looked like he was pretty darn close and could discern features. And, it's not like everything was in fast motion--he would have been able to SEE her, not just "a glimpse." Actually, one would think that the only persons who could say for sure how "good a glimpse" the witness got of the lady in the white coat would be the fellow himself and the lady in the white coat.

[Amy]

You pointed out all the similarities and maybe that's why I'm so digusted with Tara because I followed Caylee's case and this is reminding me so much of that one. I pray for a better outcome for Tori but I'm losing hope.

Yes, thankfully Tori still has her dad who will never give up. I wonder if Rodney should step aside from these conferences. Let Tara continue shooting her mouth and continue slipping up in her statements.

Oh and Tara, I have a solution, if Daryn is bawling his eyes out, don't let him read facebook or any other site. He's just a kid. Too bad you didn't think of that.

Absolutely, the mother can protect her son from reading facebook. After all, they would have to go to some trouble to make it available, unless she got her computer back. Even so, I am sure there is some way to block access to facebook on her own computer. He's what? 11? Aren't parents supposed to monitor their children's activity on the computer? Either she blocks access to the site, or sits with him if he is on the computer, and don't let him go there. If there isn't someone right there to monitor, then perhaps he should not be allowed on---many parents use these methods to monitor computer use.

[Amy]

It was interesting to hear Rodney say that maybe for all anyone knows, some kid at school was with Tori and she banged her head, died and the kid rolled her in a pile of leaves.

hinky meter.... as Daryn enters left...

I have to go back and catch up on reading and links and pcs. But, if something like this happened, where does the video w/the white-coat lady come in?

[Orleaner12]

that witness would also have had more than a passing glance at the 'lady in white" because I am sure he was looking in that direction before she passed by him...both Tara and Sara do look attractive and most men will more than glance at an attractive female..so I would think he gave a very good description.... whoever the person with Tori was she must have been rather pi**ed when the video came out........:w00t:

[Amy]

So we now know the bff is Sarah Leeper. I did not see any red flags when I read her interview but it is strange that she just moved back to Woodstock one week before Tori's kidnapping.

I also do not understand how she can be on the list of people allowed to pick up Tori at school if she has only been back for a week. If the "friend" on the list is indeed her otherwise who could it be??.

It seems like the more we know......the more we don't know. These reporters at Tara's press conferences need to get their rears in gear and star asking the obvious questions. Tara has been "allowed" to answer in a vague fashion or respond with "I don't know" without any follow up as to why she dosen't know something that she so obviously SHOULD!!!. :cursing:

If Rodney has visitation (or even shared custody, whatever the arrangement) one would wonder why the child's father is not on the can pick up list? Since it appears that his visitations are not supervised, one would assume it would be unlikely that he would pick the kids up from school and disappear.

[Amy]

Barely awake, haven't even had my morning cup o' java but I just heard that tara now says her friend sarah has in the past got together with her, tori and daryn on occasion but yet sarah herself said she has never met tori!?!?!?!?!?

did anyone else catch that?

Very interesting. One or the other is lying. Now, to figure out which one (and Daryn, if LE is allowed to ask, could be the tie breaker) and what the one who is lying has to hide. Hope Daryn can be asked before his mom can get to him to suggest what answer to give, if she is the one not quite truthful here.

[Orleaner12]

does Tara owned a car or her BF...it almost seems whoever took Tori and crossed over to nursing home parking lot may have been someone familar with the home and may have left their car there.....

[Amy]

here is today's PC

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/08/9391431-sun.html


also I think there was a short police PC today.....

When police released the composite sketch, her first reaction was "oh oh," Leeper said, because of the similarities.

Even tho Tara claims there is no resemblance, Sara's "first reaction" to the composite sketch shows that SARA saw the similarities. So it doesn't make sense for Tara to claim there is none and, come on, Rodney and the rest of the world see the resemblance, too. Tara seems to be the only one who can't.

Also, includes the statement about Tori wouldn't be able to pick her out in a crowd. And Sara's vague statement about what she was doing that day. I probably could not remember EXACT things, but I don't think I would say "maybe" I bought groceries, "maybe" I did this or that. I agree w/posters who have said--if your bff's daughter was abducted, you most likely would remember what else had gone on in your day--even enough so to remember even if it was a couple of weeks before you were questioned about it.

[Amy]

Did any one else notice that when Tara was talking about Sara being such a wonderful friend, she has always been there for me, she has never done anything bad to me.........Rodney cleared his throat really loudly in the middle of Tara's compliments......I got the distinct feeling that he does not agree or knows of something that happened in the past....

Then after she is done complimenting Sara's friendship attributes and saying there is no way she has anything to do with this..........Rodney pipes up and says that they cannot eliminate anyone :w00t:

Hmmm.......Rodney sure is growing some cahonees (sp?) Starting to like him more every day.

And Tara, just because your friend was interviewed and the interviewer recorded her without her permission (so what!!) does not mean she cannot come over to house anymore!!! Stop whining and crying about yourself and how this is affecting you and start crying about TORI!!!!

BTW......I just laughed when she got SO MAD talking about when Tori comes home all those mean people online will have to put their big fat at feet in their big fat mouths, I just wish I was there to see it :w00t:
Can you spell R E V E N G E.

I think Tara pissed someone off and she cannot admit it and she will not back down even at the expense of her daughter.....very sad.

Right. What difference does it make whether or not the reporter records the interview. She has to figure her statements are going to be made public--after all, that is WHY the reporter is talking to her. I guess, if one is NOT taped, one could always claim the reporter misquoted one's statements, or took them out of context. Seems recording the interview would be a GOOD thing--so one could PROVE if a reporter misquoted or something. Or, if one contested the report, the reporter would have a back up for proof of what was said. Besides, who is worried about her being taped? Sara? Or Tara?

[days of yore]

Very interesting. One or the other is lying. Now, to figure out which one (and Daryn, if LE is allowed to ask, could be the tie breaker) and what the one who is lying has to hide. Hope Daryn can be asked before his mom can get to him to suggest what answer to give, if she is the one not quite truthful here.

I actually thought the same thing, but when I re-read the article, Sarah says that she hadn't even met Tori yet that week or soemthing to the effect of 'since moving back'. Later, she just goes on to say that Tori couldn't pick her out of a lineup, or along those lines, indicating that they hadn't seen each other much over the years....

[days of yore]

Right. What difference does it make whether or not the reporter records the interview. She has to figure her statements are going to be made public--after all, that is WHY the reporter is talking to her. I guess, if one is NOT taped, one could always claim the reporter misquoted one's statements, or took them out of context. Seems recording the interview would be a GOOD thing--so one could PROVE if a reporter misquoted or something. Or, if one contested the report, the reporter would have a back up for proof of what was said. Besides, who is worried about her being taped? Sara? Or Tara?

I apologize if this has been talked about already (reading posts backwards..i know, silly!! :blushing:), but I think I heard the reporter who did the interview speak up at the pc from the background and say that they 'didn't' record that. I wonder if Sarah was just so caught off guard by how much the reporter actually caught of their conversation, that she just assumed that it was recorded. The reporter probably used shorthand and got everything!!

On another note, ITA with everyone who noted Rodney not liking the praise for Sarah. I honestly believe that this is the individual that Rodney eluded to when he said that the sketch reminded him of someone from high school It hadn't been clear until the PC, that there was a highschool link there...

[tarabull1]

I actually thought the same thing, but when I re-read the article, Sarah says that she hadn't even met Tori yet that week or soemthing to the effect of 'since moving back'. Later, she just goes on to say that Tori couldn't pick her out of a lineup, or along those lines, indicating that they hadn't seen each other much over the years....

[snipped from article...] She and McDonald have known each other since Grade 6.

“Tara and I were really super close when we were younger. We are close but we have taken different paths.”

Those different paths took Leeper out of Woodstock. For the past six years, the pair kept in touch mainly by Internet and phone calls.

Leeper missed her hometown, but her husband and children didn’t want to move.

“I fought tooth and nail to come here,” she said, with a laugh. “I love Woodstock. I still do.”

She moved a week before Tori was abducted — another sign, say her accusers, of something suspicious.

In that week, though, Leeper said, she didn’t get a chance to meet Tori.

Police say Tori knew her abductor well enough to leave school with her.

“Tori couldn’t pick me out of a crowd,” Leeper said. “I don’t even know Tori.”

Police have asked Leeper to account for her whereabouts the day of the abduction.

“I don’t remember. Got up, put the kids on the bus, maybe cleaned the house, maybe got groceries,” she told The Free Press.

The afternoon Tori was abducted, she was waiting at home for her own children to get off the school bus — as she does every day, Leeper said.

When police released the composite sketch, her first reaction was “oh oh,” Leeper said, because of the similarities.

“Absolutely I did because I am Tara’s best friend. This is an obvious conclusion to come to.”

[M_J]

[snipped from article...] She and McDonald have known each other since Grade 6.

“Tara and I were really super close when we were younger. We are close but we have taken different paths.”

Those different paths took Leeper out of Woodstock. For the past six years, the pair kept in touch mainly by Internet and phone calls.

Leeper missed her hometown, but her husband and children didn’t want to move.

“I fought tooth and nail to come here,” she said, with a laugh. “I love Woodstock. I still do.”

She moved a week before Tori was abducted — another sign, say her accusers, of something suspicious.

In that week, though, Leeper said, she didn’t get a chance to meet Tori.

Police say Tori knew her abductor well enough to leave school with her.

“Tori couldn’t pick me out of a crowd,” Leeper said. “I don’t even know Tori.”

Police have asked Leeper to account for her whereabouts the day of the abduction.

“I don’t remember. Got up, put the kids on the bus, maybe cleaned the house, maybe got groceries,” she told The Free Press.

The afternoon Tori was abducted, she was waiting at home for her own children to get off the school bus — as she does every day, Leeper said.

When police released the composite sketch, her first reaction was “oh oh,” Leeper said, because of the similarities.

“Absolutely I did because I am Tara’s best friend. This is an obvious conclusion to come to.”

My bold. (The one in red..)

Didn't Tara say in Friday's pc that Tori didn't know Sara that well?
So - which is it? Did she not know her well, or did she not know her at all?

[tarabull1]

My bold. (The one in red..)

Didn't Tara say in Friday's pc that Tori didn't know Sara that well?
So - which is it? Did she not know her well, or did she not know her at all?

do you suppose someone might raise a few of these questions at the next PC?

[days of yore]

do you suppose someone might raise a few of these questions at the next PC?

I'm not sure....when Tara mentioned that Sarah had seen them on a few occasions, it might have been a 'hi', 'bye' type thing. Not sure that anything in her statements during this PC raised any red flags for me, but I'm certainly not defending either of them!! :sneaky:

[doctor_J]

The thing that impressed me about the pc was that Rodney openly disagreed with Tara at least 3 times. He seemed to be tired of Tara putting the focus on everything other than Tori. Good for him. Trying to stand united with her all this time reminded me of David Smith.

Apparently, Tara has phoned an attorney and intends to single-handedly close down the Right to Free Speech on the internet, particularly on Facebook. The funny thing about slander, you have to prove it is not true. Or said another way, Truth is an absolute defense to slander. Seems to me the cops are thinking along the lines of the general public. They're just not buying what Tara is selling.

[moonlite]

The thing that impressed me about the pc was that Rodney openly disagreed with Tara at least 3 times. He seemed to be tired of Tara putting the focus on everything other than Tori. Good for him. Trying to stand united with her all this time reminded me of David Smith.

Apparently, Tara has phoned an attorney and intends to single-handedly close down the Right to Free Speech on the internet, particularly on Facebook. The funny thing about slander, you have to prove it is not true. Or said another way, Truth is an absolute defense to slander. Seems to me the cops are thinking along the lines of the general public. They're just not buying what Tara is selling.

Greetings"
Doctor J'

I agree with you, that Rodney is getting tired of Tara's self centeredness. If it were me and my child was missing, my press conferences would be all about my child. I would be making pleas every chance I got to the abductor!!!
I would never waste a press conference on trying to defend a friend.
As far as I'm concerned that friend is an adult and can defend herself.
A missing child needs every resource in their corner.

Moonlite

[n/t]

Does anyone remember when Sara stopped going to Tara's? We've seen her on camera on many occasions inside the home or at the PC's. Was it shortly after the sketch was released?:sneaky:

[M_J]

n/t..

The last time I saw Sara and Tara together was when they did that open interview in Tara's living room..

I don't remember seeing her since then.

[north-eh]

I'm just popping in to say Happy Mother's Day to of you wonderful mother's out there.
I pray this will be the day little Tori comes home to those who love and care for her. I keep following the case and reading this board above all and I wanted to say that you all are doing a great job here as usual keeping us all updated.
I don't post as much as I should I suppose but if something does come up that strikes me in any particular fashion I will obligue.

Praying for Tori to be found today. :rose:
N

[douglasd]

I've been reading here for awhile, just joined. I'm impressed with some of the details you all have found.

I just wanted to point out a couple of things that come to mind, maybe not important.

On the OPP Missing Person's site, if you click on Additional Photos, the sketch is there, with the description, so they have not removed it.

The woman in Brantford that looked like the sketch did come forward to police with her husband. She actually didn't look all that much like the sketch.

The video of Tori walking with the woman in white... the other person waiting for their child was actually a woman, not a man. That may have some relevance to the sketch. I think a woman would remember details better, but I could be wrong.

[n/t]

I've been reading here for awhile, just joined. I'm impressed with some of the details you all have found.

I just wanted to point out a couple of things that come to mind, maybe not important.

On the OPP Missing Person's site, if you click on Additional Photos, the sketch is there, with the description, so they have not removed it.

The woman in Brantford that looked like the sketch did come forward to police with her husband. She actually didn't look all that much like the sketch.

The video of Tori walking with the woman in white... the other person waiting for their child was actually a woman, not a man. That may have some relevance to the sketch. I think a woman would remember details better, but I could be wrong.

Are you sure it was a woman? First I heard of this. Do you mind telling us where this was reported? TIA

She surely doesn't look like a woman. :confused:

[n/t]

The OPP Missing Persons (http://www.missing-u.ca/qryUI_Intro/MPDetail.aspx?MPs=%3Ckey%3E%3Ccv%3E%3Cc%3EtblMissi ng.MID%3C%2Fc%3E%3Cv%3E349%3C%2Fv%3E%3C%2Fcv%3E%3C cv%3E%3Cc%3EtblMissing.PersonID%3C%2Fc%3E%3Cv%3E81 2%3C%2Fv%3E%3C%2Fcv%3E%3Ccv%3E%3Cc%3EtblInvest.Inv estID%3C%2Fc%3E%3Cv%3E1149%3C%2Fv%3E%3C%2Fcv%3E%3C cv%3E%3Cc%3EtblPhoto.PhotoID%3C%2Fc%3E%3Cv%3E77904 %3C%2Fv%3E%3C%2Fcv%3E%3Ccv%3E%3Cc%3EtblPerson.Pers onID%3C%2Fc%3E%3Cv%3E812%3C%2Fv%3E%3C%2Fcv%3E%3Ccv %3E%3Cc%3EtblLocation.LocID%3C%2Fc%3E%3Cv%3E652%3C %2Fv%3E%3C%2Fcv%3E%3Ccv%3E%3Cc%3EtblClothing.Cloth ingID%3C%2Fc%3E%3Cv%3E125484%3C%2Fv%3E%3C%2Fcv%3E% 3C%2Fkey%3E) website changed the details of the POI again. This time, the details for the POI is not there at all. This is the 4th time the OPP has done this. They changed the height 3 times and now this.
There were a few chatters asking the mod of the chat to ask his colleagues on site to inquire about this while live streaming of the pcs is happening and they don't.
This is what leads me to believe LE doesn't have anything to go on.


If you click on additional photos, they still have the sketch there.

[n/t]

I'm just popping in to say Happy Mother's Day to of you wonderful mother's out there.
I pray this will be the day little Tori comes home to those who love and care for her. I keep following the case and reading this board above all and I wanted to say that you all are doing a great job here as usual keeping us all updated.
I don't post as much as I should I suppose but if something does come up that strikes me in any particular fashion I will obligue.

Praying for Tori to be found today. :rose:
N


Happy Mother's Day to you too. :smile:

[Gugug]

Thanks n/t
I didn't bother to check that because the last time I did they only had the photos of the jacket and the bratz purse. I guess the public will be looking for Tori's captor(s) between 51-53"? I know they probably mean 5'1" - 5'3" and hasn't that changed again too?
Still it's changed four times and I'd like to know why and the press has been asked by the viewers in that chat room during the pcs several times on various occasions and the members of the press won't ask. It's not that difficult of a question for them to ask.

I think initially they went on what Tori's family said was her height, then gave the mystery woman's height based on that. The better way would be to film someone on the same camera, in the same place that the woman and Tori were seen. Film several people of different heights, even, then compare those to that grainy image we've seen so many times. This would allow them to accurately state the height of the mystery person.

They also know the height of the eyewitness, and could even ask that person to stand in the same place in order to make sure this is accurate.

[douglasd]

Are you sure it was a woman? First I heard of this. Do you mind telling us where this was reported? TIA

She surely doesn't look like a woman. :confused:

One of the Stafford brothers confirmed it on the FB site.

[Gugug]

Sheesh...no kidding. So where is Cluny? Why did Tara say Bassano? Did you look at the photo of her brother? It's all farm and fields. If that's where Tori is, they'll never find her. :sad:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=cluny

Cluny, Gleichen and Bassano all border the Siksika reserve. This reserve is large. Some farmers in the area lease farm land from the band.

You will notice on the map that there is another reserve bordering that one.

[n/t]

Thanks n/t
I didn't bother to check that because the last time I did they only had the photos of the jacket and the bratz purse. I guess the public will be looking for Tori's captor(s) between 51-53"? I know they probably mean 5'1" - 5'3" and hasn't that changed again too?
Still it's changed four times and I'd like to know why and the press has been asked by the viewers in that chat room during the pcs several times on various occasions and the members of the press won't ask. It's not that difficult of a question for them to ask.

I don't know. I really didn't pay too much attention to the height as I did to the woman's face. The best way to exclude any suspicions on Tara or Sara would be to do a recreation. I wonder if they were asked.

Also, some believe the Bratz bag Tori had was not the one being shown in the photo but could be one like this: http://www.mgae.com/2006_product_pages/Products/Bratz/BratzSportzSleepover.asp


It would explain why we don't see Tori carrying a school bag but we see the alleged abductor carrying something with a black strap. Was the abductor carrying Tori's bag?

I hope the reporters ask Tara what kind of school bag Tori had.


This one is not big enough to put books in it, imo. http://www.portstanleynews.com/s1024/images/image/Tori.jpg

[n/t]

One of the Stafford brothers confirmed it on the FB site.

hmmm....well that's interesting. Funny how everyone assumed she was a man.

Thanks.

[Gugug]

CTV Calgary (http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090508/CGY_Tori_StaffordSearch_090508/20090508/?hub=CalgaryHome) confirms that it was the RCMP that searched Tara's brothers, uh, home (see pic at link). :unsure:

I've bolded some interesting tidbits:



So we have yet another town name -- Cluny -- and another relative alias -- Ferraz. I'm starting to think we should start a database of relatives and their various names and various locations. :scared:

Now one thing reporters are supposed to do is spell the name right. It's a very basic thing, drilled into their heads in journalism school. Usually, they would ask the person in question to spell it out loud, letter by letter. So is this poor reporting, or misleading information given by the person him/herself? Is it Jacklin, or Jacqlin, or Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis? No, it's Ferraz, or Ferris Buhler, or....

Notice that Tara McDonald said her brother lives on an Indian Reserve in Bassano. First she said it was Calgary, then she said it was an Indian reserve in Bassano. Then the truth comes out that it was a home in Cluny. Cluny is not on reserve land. Bassano is not on reserve land. Why so many misleading bits of information? I know where my brother lives, do you?

Or is he really a brother?

And why this need to tell the world her friend is half Ojibway, and her brother lives on a reserve (therefore has Indian blood)? Given the track record of incorrect information, is this another distraction tossed out for the entertainment of viewers?

[Gugug]

I, too, was disgusted, and I only caught the last ten minutes. I'll watch the beginning of it tomorrow. You can only take so much Tara in one day, I guess. :shrug:

Does she not realize that, when she goes off on the public like she did in today's presser, about how she can't wait until Tori is found so that everyone will be sorry and have feet in their mouths and will be groveling at her feet, the public is thinking...but Tara, you should be saying you can't wait until Tori is found because YOU'LL HAVE HER BACK!

Doesn't she watch herself on these pressers? She's a narcissist, for heaven's sake. She should be watching herself over and over. Doesn't she see herself? Doesn't she hear the words coming out of her mouth?

Tara, you can't wait for an end to this because you want vengeance. Revenge is a sweeter result than the return of Tori. Anger at the "negative" public is making you lash out. Is this kind of emotional lashing out, I wonder, what got us all here in the first place?

Her complaints about "negativity" are wearing thin. Well, it's kind of a negative situation, isn't it? Her ravings about negativity remind me of when I was a part of a renowned direct-selling company that shall remain nameless, and whenever someone questioned the outdated business plan or when concerns were raised about how the commission scheme seemed very pyramid-like, they were bashed and/or banished for being negative. I learned after awhile that negativity=truth in some situations, like when someone is trying to sell you a bridge in New York. :unsure:

I'm glad you have noticed that need for revenge, and the big picture.

"Negativity" is in the eye of the beholder. Given that anyone who dares to think someone that this person doesn't like is "negative", the police surely must be "negative" in this person's eyes. Or are they just doing their jobs, considering all possibilities, and investigating all leads, not just the "positive" ones? I wonder who phoned in that tip that Tori had been seen in Alberta? This is looking like a cat and mouse game.

[Gugug]

Thanks n/t
I didn't bother to check that because the last time I did they only had the photos of the jacket and the bratz purse. I guess the public will be looking for Tori's captor(s) between 51-53"? I know they probably mean 5'1" - 5'3" and hasn't that changed again too?
Still it's changed four times and I'd like to know why and the press has been asked by the viewers in that chat room during the pcs several times on various occasions and the members of the press won't ask. It's not that difficult of a question for them to ask.

The thing is, the press conferences are Tara McDonald's. The reporters should ask the police forces who are conducting the investigation this question. Maybe they already have. They may not get an answer anyways.

[Gugug]

...owner says nothing surprises him in Cluny. I guess.

[Gugug]

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/631018

There is a slight difference between Calgary and Cluny. Cluny has three businesses. That's like saying Toronto is a village with three businesses.

Note: John what's-his-name is John McDonald now.

[M_J]

The best idea I have is maybe theres nothing to it? Maybe it has nothing to do with the case?

Personally, I imagine I could go with any one of three or four last names.

My Mother's maiden name was Jones*, and when she married my biological Father, she took on his last name, which was Brown*. When my brother and I were born, we obviously took on the family name, Brown*.

My parents seperated, and eventually divorced. My Mother went back to her maiden name, Jones*, my brother and I stayed Brown's*

My Mother married the man whom I consider my Dad, but I will call my step-dad for now, to help everyone understand better.. (my Mom and Bio-Father were divorced before I was 5, and passed when I was .. I believe 6 years old..) My step-dad and my Mom had my sister, who took my step-dad's last name Smith.*

(Just to keep everyone on track..

Me & my brother = Brown's
My Mom = Jones
My step dad & sister = Smith.)

Now .. although I have called my other half "my husband" on the board, we aren't married yet ahha.. September 19th, of this year.. and we will be!! :) yay!

So, as of then, I will be a Young*

So, in my life, I could have taken as many as 4 different last names.

I hope that helps?? I know, messed up eh? <-- yes, I'm Canadian.. no, I don't live in an igloo.

* I changed all the last names.. I don't think anyone would be able to prounounce all of the real ones lol..

But - the story in itself is 100% true.

Did that help anyone?

[M_J]

I'm glad Kinetic.

That was the whole reason I did that.

No offence to anyone else, but I think maybe this last name thing is being read into a little too much..

Someone can legally change their name, just because they want to.

It doesn't mean it has anything to do with Tori's dissaparence.

[Gugug]

Sorry to quote myself but I never thought about it this way. The press shouldn't only be asking LE about this, but they should also be asking Rodney or Tara about this. I'd have to believe that any parent of a missing child would show great concern if LE has changed the captor(s) height description that many times. Makes me think LE doesn't know what they're looking for. The media can take control of the pcs any given moment and they choose not to.

Remember the PC with Obama and Harper? Usually, the American press is screened in this way: submit questions, some will be chosen. Is this what Canadian journalism has sunken to now?

Major thing that bugged me: the Toronto Star reported Tara's claims as truth and fact. They didn't verify anything. They didn't say, "McDonald said that..." or "McDonald claims..." Nope. They published it as fact, and it wasn't.

As for the many names, in the case of relatives of my spouse, this is done to conceal things. It's not always innocent, even though it is legal to go by any name you want, provided you use legal names on documents.

[n/t]

Respectfully snipped



It helped me M_J and thank you for sharing. I can't speak for others but can only say I don't really care how many names someone has because you just gave a perfect example of how names can change. I do admit it's nice to know who all the characters are so that I can follow the story but as to how they're all related, I don't really care and for the media to go out of their way and lay out, well this person used to go by such and such name, went by that name and now goes by this name kind of deal, I end up asking myself "Who cares?" because I don't see how it pertains to Tori's disappearance and finding her and locating her captor(s). Guess I'm just trying to understand why all these name changes are a big deal because I can't figure out how it's relevant and I'm hoping someone can explain it to me how name changes are relevant.

The only reason I see it as being relevant is if one of them assumed an alias to hide from something which may or may not have anything to do with this case.

As an example....if it was gang or drug related and Tori was abducted out of revenge for something one of them did. KWIM?

[n/t]

I think our frustrations should be directed at Law Enforcement more so than the media, imo.

If you think about it, it's kind of embarassing to hear Tara say she knows the cops are there taping her. I mean if they really wanted to hear what she has to say, why not just bring her in for questioning. If they want to tape her conferences, why not do it discreetly?

Do they think she'll lawyer up and stop talking if they take her in for questioning? That's the only explanation I can come up with.

[Lorelei]

Hi all,

Yet another inconsistency in this case. I have read Sara Leeper's interview, she says that she 'has never met Tori' and 'Tori couldn't even pick me out of a crowd' - However, in one of Tara's interviews, Tara says that Sara has met Tori on at least two occassions. Not sure which of them to believe.

At the point where the mysterious benefactor comes into play, is when I started to think this whole affair was really bizzare. The benefactor story is just so difficult to believe to say the least.

My concern also is that Tara says she gave the school a list of people who were permitted to pick her up after school: herself, her boyfriend's mother and a girl she met in a townhouse she lived in before. If Tara knew that her son was to pick up another (disabled) girl after school, why didn't Tara make arrangements for these other people to pick her up or at least have gone to pick up her up herself. A 10 mins walk home for a little girl by herself is like an eternity in this day and age, anything can happen.

I do hope the authorities have interviewed the mother of the disabled girl and the girl that Tara says was on that list of people who were permitted to pick her up. Praying for Tori to be found safe and sound!

[n/t]

Hi lorelei,

You bring up some of the same questions and concerns we all have about this bizarre case.

Why didn't Tori go along with Daryn and they could've walked home together afterwards? :shrug:

So many things don't add up and I wish someone would get to the bottom of it. Tori needs to be found and the only way that can happen is if someone clears up these inconsistencies and get to the truth.

[Gugug]

The only reason I see it as being relevant is if one of them assumed an alias to hide from something which may or may not have anything to do with this case.

As an example....if it was gang or drug related and Tori was abducted out of revenge for something one of them did. KWIM?

I see this as another distraction. There are many misleading bits of information (intentional or not?) about other things, like places.

The thing about so many names for everyone in this story? It's one thing to have had many names. It's another thing to use them all simultaneously. Some of the players are doing just that. Is that normal?

All the conflicting information is laying down a pattern of behavior: tell a story, amend the story, then amend it again. It's this, it's that, it's something else.

The story is falling apart.

[Gugug]

Sheesh...no kidding. So where is Cluny? Why did Tara say Bassano? Did you look at the photo of her brother? It's all farm and fields. If that's where Tori is, they'll never find her. :sad:

Farm and fields, yes, but not far from Highway 24, which is the back road to Calgary/Highway 1 from the American border. And on nice, sunny days on the weekend, you can see plenty of Harley-riding bikers in those half-shell helmets they favor, driving up and down that highway.

[Lorelei]

Sorry if I was a bit late with my observations, I posted before I had finished reading the whole thread, and glad others have noticed what I noticed about Tara and Sara contradicting eachother about Sara knowing Tori.

I may be going off on a tangent here, another thing I noticed which may or may not be significant is when Tara pleaded with the abductor to 'drop her off in a field' (gosh I would never ask anyone to drop my child off in a field, oh well) and shortly thereafter, the police were asking farmers to 'watch their fields carefully and report anything strange'. It felt like Tara was sending someone a message.... Probably just my imagination....?
-----
Hope someone brings the precious home soon to end the agony.

[tarabull1]

Sorry if I was a bit late with my observations, I posted before I had finished reading the whole thread, and glad others have noticed what I noticed about Tara and Sara contradicting eachother about Sara knowing Tori.

I may be going off on a tangent here, another thing I noticed which may or may not be significant is when Tara pleaded with the abductor to 'drop her off in a field' (gosh I would never ask anyone to drop my child off in a field, oh well) and shortly thereafter, the police were asking farmers to 'watch their fields carefully and report anything strange'. It felt like Tara was sending someone a message.... Probably just my imagination....?
-----
Hope someone brings the precious home soon to end the agony.


Lorelei!!! WOW....my wheels were already turning, but even more so now!

Makes me wonder if maybe Tara was lining up her own C~Y~A KNOWING full well Tori will be found in a field.

[tarabull1]

Lorelei!!! WOW....my wheels were already turning, but even more so now!

Makes me wonder if maybe Tara was lining up her own C~Y~A KNOWING full well Tori will be found in a field.

Sorry to quote myself but I'd like to elaborate - I'm thinking more along the lines that Tori is already in a field and Tara is putting it out there for the public so that when she is found she can say of course she is in a field, I told them to put her there - as a defence.

Not so much seeing Tara's direction to leave her in a field as being said to the person that has her.

(THAT is the light that just went on for me > YES she is covering for where the body will be found by saying "field")

[doctor_J]

I was under the impression she said "remote field". That really impressed me because just thinking about it made me shiver. A remote field is a place a living child could possibly never find her way out of, KWIM?

[Lorelei]

Dr_J: she DID say 'remote field' actually, you are right, I just didn't say it cuz I too was creeped out :( - I too doubt she would be able to find her way out of a 'remote field'.

[doctor_J]

When Tara says something as outrageous as "drop her off in a remote field", here's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking she's trying to set herself up a defense. She's planting the seed of a defense. She wants to be able to say IF she's shown evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that she, herself, did this crime. that she did the kidnapping, for a "mildly vindictive" reason.....then it blew up in the media and OPP got involved and she didn't know how to get out of it. So she dropped her off in a remote field but will swear she did not kill her. She must have died because she got lost..... child endangerment and willful disregard for human life or even manslaughter is a lot better for the perp than kidnapping and murder one. Besides, dropping her off in a remote field is something she might could claim an "insane" person would do.

Tara has been a "little down" lately but not for Tori, for herself. She's so disappointed that so many people suspect her. She's so disappointed the donations are not pouring in. She's so disappointed she not seen as a suffering, grief-stricken sympathetic character. She's so disappointed she's not front page news in the US, and replacing CA on the NG show. The whole fiasco has been a disappointment.

[streeter]

Lorelei, thank you for making the connection between Tara's "remote field" comment and LE's plea to farmers to watch their fields. I hadn't thought of it. :thumbup:

Kinetic et al: I share your frustrations with the media for not asking the tough questions, but I think we got our answer to that last week when it was revealed that there is an officer at each of Tara's pressers videotaping everything. I think the reporters are intimidated by this, and that the official's presence, along with his making of an "official record" of the presser, is affecting the way they do their jobs. It shouldn't, but I think it does.

[Amy]

I'm not sure....when Tara mentioned that Sarah had seen them on a few occasions, it might have been a 'hi', 'bye' type thing. Not sure that anything in her statements during this PC raised any red flags for me, but I'm certainly not defending either of them!! :sneaky:

The red flag raised for me is that Sara says she has never seen Tori, and Tara says she has. Doesn't matter if it was hi and bye or a longer conversation, IMO.

[Amy]

Respectfully snipped



It helped me M_J and thank you for sharing. I can't speak for others but can only say I don't really care how many names someone has because you just gave a perfect example of how names can change. I do admit it's nice to know who all the characters are so that I can follow the story but as to how they're all related, I don't really care and for the media to go out of their way and lay out, well this person used to go by such and such name, went by that name and now goes by this name kind of deal, I end up asking myself "Who cares?" because I don't see how it pertains to Tori's disappearance and finding her and locating her captor(s). Guess I'm just trying to understand why all these name changes are a big deal because I can't figure out how it's relevant and I'm hoping someone can explain it to me how name changes are relevant.

Perhaps, since there seem to be no leads, reporters are looking for anyone that might have what could be perceived as a "shady" background. Someone with a shady background could be a person who could abduct a little girl. Maybe they are trying to decipher what is shady in someone's background, to see if it could be relevant to the abduction. When there is no news from LE, "investigative reporters" go out on their own to see what they can find, sometimes.

[n/t]

Hoping there will be a break in the case this week and Tori will be found. Someone knows where she is and they need to speak up now!:sad:

[days of yore]

The red flag raised for me is that Sara says she has never seen Tori, and Tara says she has. Doesn't matter if it was hi and bye or a longer conversation, IMO.

I believe she stated that she hadn't seen Tori in that week, pertaining to, since she moved back...

We discussed this on page 6 and someone was kind enough to paste the whole interview there for our review.

She says that Tori wouldn't be able to pick her out of a crowd, or something like that, which just tells me, IMHO, that she didn't see much of her over the years.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not defending Tara or Sarah and am certainly not indicating that I think that either is innocent here. I just don't think that the wording raises any red flags for me.

[Gugug]

It seems to me that there is nothing to report, so maybe editors are pushing reporters to find something, anything to say. Then they work whatever angle they have at the moment.

For example, the police probably wouldn't verify the search in Cluny, so some reporters just reported it as a search in Calgary, that it had happened just like TM said it did. Oops, some details were wrong.

Consider, for a moment, the case of Michael White in Edmonton. White's pregnant wife was reported missing one morning after she failed to show up for work. Her vehicle was found with her purse on the seat, but nothing missing. Michael White made a tearful plea on TV to her abductor to set her free. He went out with a search party and found some evidence for the police.

Then it turned out that Michael White had killed his wife, and disposed of her body. Police had evidence that was not disclosed until later, including a security video of White dropping off his wife's vehicle and setting the scene. They also had a garbage bag full of bloody clothes, that White had retrieved from a field, then set out with the garbage in his back alley.

White recently appealed his murder conviction, seeking a reduced charge of manslaughter. However, the appeals court declined his request.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2009/03/27/edm-white-appeal-court-decision.html?ref=rss

White's dramatic, tearful plea to her abductors in front of TV cameras and other post-offence conduct clearly showed his attempt to conceal his own involvement, thereby making the manslaughter appeal out of the question.

[justmy2cents]

http://www.myfmradio.ca/1057/wire/news/00008_Stafford_Search_Moves_Out_Of_Woodstock_08261 5.php

not sure if i did this right....may be something???

[Lorelei]

She says that Tori wouldn't be able to pick her out of a crowd, or something like that, which just tells me, IMHO, that she didn't see much of her over the years.


This is exactly what she said, I am pasting this from the interview:

In that week, though, Leeper said, she didn't get a chance to meet Tori.

Police say Tori knew her abductor well enough to leave school with her.

"Tori couldn't pick me out of a crowd," Leeper said. "I don't even know Tori."

[Gugug]

[QUOTE=not sure if i did this right....may be something???[/QUOTE]

I realize this is the fault of Calgary CTV, which reported Cluny as being northeast of Calgary. If you look on the map, it is southeast of Calgary. How hard can it be to get the simple things straight? The devil is in the details:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=map%20of%20cluny%20alberta

[Gugug]

How long do you think it will be before the media stop sending reporters to the TM PCs, and only the local media remain?

How long before the police stop holding PCs?

[n/t]

Hi Amy :seeya:

ITA with what you've said too but when I see articles like this Finding little Tori the top priority
(http://www.fyilondon.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?p=28413&x=letters&l_publish_date=&s_publish_date=&s_keywords=&s_topic=&s_letter_type=POV&s_topic=&s_letter_status=Active&s=letters)

"Unfortunately, in today's world there is no shortage of people willing to accept and spread lies, misinformation and hateful or hurtful messages."

Are these reporters kidding me? Spreading lies, misinformation and hateful or hurtful messages? The press is the one reporting to us. They're the ones digging up all this dirt to either embed doubt or suspicion in the public mind. The media knows what they're doing. I half agree Tara has control of the pcs, but to say the press doesn't when they're writing garbage like this, as if to say they're not responsible for the garbage they do write? When I read that article I felt as if the author was chastising me and all I was doing was reading it and then they have the nerve to write this.

"If people would just stop the nonsense and let the police and the media do their job, let Tori's parents find whatever solace they can, at least an already unbearable pain won't get worse."

So I agree with this guy in this regard. Yes, let the media do their job, by asking questions that are relevant and quit writing garbage articles like this one telling their readers what to do after they reported it for the sole purpose to embed that suspicion/doubt in the public mind.

The reporter of this article is the same reporter who mentioned in another article how he was getting tired of Tara McDonald, but yet they have no problem reporting to the public about stuff that really isn't relevant and then media turns around and tells the public to stop speculating? I have an idea, how about the media stop writing garbage? It's kind of like what came first, the chicken or the egg?


A lot of what's reported comes from Tara and Rodney's own mouths. Tara even volunteers information at these pressers. One example was the McDonald name and how most didn't want to be associated with it or something to that effect. Of course, as a reporter, I'd go digging to find out what she meant by that. It could be nothing or it could be something.

Another example was the limo ride. She volunteered to give that information. Remember she herself said she wasn't sure if she should be sharing that information. And then of course, there are all the inconsistencies in her statements.

I don't totally blame the media.

[Gugug]

Finding little Tori the top priority
(http://www.fyilondon.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?p=28413&x=letters&l_publish_date=&s_publish_date=&s_keywords=&s_topic=&s_letter_type=POV&s_topic=&s_letter_status=Active&s=letters)

"If people would just stop the nonsense and let the police and the media do their job, let Tori's parents find whatever solace they can, at least an already unbearable pain won't get worse."



Yes, the press really want people to stop buying their newspapers and stop reading the articles!

Any family seeking solace would continue on with their daily routine. They would not stay home holding daily press conferences and granting interviews. They would avoid the limelight.

However, this family has chosen to place itself front and centre. They have stated that they want to keep Tori's name and her disappearance in the public eye, in the hope that she will be found. There is a price for this, and it is lack of privacy. They have deemed this necessary, a price they are willing to pay.

And they have succeeded in doing what they set out to do: bring attention to the case.

I do believe it's a case of nothing to report, so time for some navel-gazing, er, introspection. And the job that this article refers to? It is the job of the media to sell newspapers, air time, etc. They are doing that rather well, too.

[juliekan]

http://www.mogulus.com/lfpress

today's PC is on.

Rodney knocked on door, no one answered. Then he received a call that Tara would not be there today.

[n/t]

http://www.mogulus.com/lfpress

today's PC is on.

Rodney knocked on door, no one answered. Then he received a call that Tara would not be there today.

Oh well. At least Rodney is still there. I can't hear what he's saying though.

[Orleaner12]

Tara was not there only Rodney...at least we didn't have to listen to a bunch of crap from Tara...her ego always seems to get the better of her though as she texted Rodney just after the PC started and said she would not be there......now I am sure she could have done that before the poor guy knocked on the door..no she just had to get her bit in there with the reporters... Poor Rodney....so pleased he said they didn't want any donations etc.. only keep Tori's name out there......

[juliekan]

Today's PC

Rodney shows up and knocks on door, but nobody answers.

reporters ask Rodney what's up, he says he doesn't know but he got a text from Daryn, but did not return it because he was already almost to the house for PC.

then he gets a call/text from Tara saying she would not be there today (chat room says anything from "wasn't Tara seeing her attorney in Toronto today?" to "on facebook they said Daryn's dog was at the vet.")

questions about John Jacklin being in town before Tori went missing, Rodney says he wasn't here until 3 days after Tori went missing.

Asked about rumors of sightings of Tori over the weekend (from FB?), Rodney says he doesn't really pay attention to those until he hears it from the police.

He's going to Hamilton for a ribbons, flyers handout this pm. A "bunch" are scheduled upcoming, including Toronto.

Asked about disagreements between families, Rodney said "hard feelings" were "built on frustration" that Tori was missing. He said his family did not want to accept donations. Said the families have put all that aside now.

Asked about neighbor woman whose name was on pick-up list at school, Rodney said if it is the neighbor he thinks it is, she had children of her own and "I have no fear" that she would do something to Tori.

Looked like the press was following and asking more questions as he walked off.

(one note of humor: one chatter posted at the beginning when Tara wasn't answering the door: "go to the back door, we know she always answers when someone knocks on her back door." :tonguewag:)

[virgogal]

Does anyone remember an Aunt living in Alberta? Who would that be??

WOODSTOCK, Ont. — One night last July, little Victoria Stafford was homesick while visiting an aunt in Alberta when she couldn't reach her mother right away on the phone. She panicked and called her aunt Randi Millen in Woodstock, Ont., instead, just to feel connected to home.


"I spoke with her for a fair amount of time and I comforted her," Millen said at her home Tuesday.

[n/t]

Does anyone remember an Aunt living in Alberta? Who would that be??

WOODSTOCK, Ont. — One night last July, little Victoria Stafford was homesick while visiting an aunt in Alberta when she couldn't reach her mother right away on the phone. She panicked and called her aunt Randi Millen in Woodstock, Ont., instead, just to feel connected to home.


"I spoke with her for a fair amount of time and I comforted her," Millen said at her home Tuesday.


I believe that's Rodney's sister.

[virgogal]

Hi there...yes Randi is Rod's sister...but I wodered which Aunt she was visiting in AB??

[virgogal]

Someone on another site just reminded me...that would be her Aunt Rebecca (Rodney's sister)

[virgogal]

If Daryn has a cell phone and can text his Dad...I wonder if Tori had one too?? Surely LE could 'ping' it if she had it with her!

[Gugug]

I believe that's Rodney's sister.

Aunt Rebecca Stafford was studying at NAIT in Edmonton. Some media outlet said she left her home in Sherwood Park, skipping some final exams, to return to Woodstock after Tori disappeared.

She is the one who spoke out against the donations and fundraising.

[Orleaner12]

I am positive that the OPP have lots of info but they are being tight-lipped about it, as they usually do until they can connect all the dots...I have faith in them... this also reminds me of little Maddie McCann when the police in Portugal stopped informing the parents once they had come to the conclusion that maybe her parents WERE involved somehow... It puzzles me that when the press writes that Tori may have been spotted in Alberta and I think that news was public on Friday, the parents didn't contact the police to question this...at least that is what Rodney said today when asked about it and then said he was planning on calling this afternoon... I think I would have done that ASAP before I ventured to another balloon release! So from what I have observed through these PC's, the police and the family are not in contact with each other re: updates.....

[juliekan]

you're welcome...so glad I tried to transcribe what I heard at today's PC.