Obama's mother posthumously baptized into LDS Church

[Lady_Jean_La]

http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_12301237

It is not yet clear whether Obama is troubled by the practice. The White House declined to comment Tuesday.

[crocdog1]

As per the article, the Morman Church seems to have a penchant to do this to folks who, in life, would not have any desire to be in their Church.

I have no idea why they keep wanting to force people (even in death), to be members of their Church.

[dref99]

As per the article, the Morman Church seems to have a penchant to do this to folks who, in life, would not have any desire to be in their Church.

I have no idea why they keep wanting to force people (even in death), to be members of their Church.

They don't "force people". In "the spirit world" they are given the option. It is a good idea to understand the rituals before commenting on same. The detail in the article explains the process.

"Such proxy baptisms are nothing more than a way to give people in the spirit world a chance to reject or accept the gospel"


Disclaimer: I am not a member of the church - I have seen many of my ancestors treated in this fashion (by distant relatives) - and know they would have laughed at the practice/process. It is quite irrelevant to those who are not members of the church & like most religious happenings, should be ignored.

jmo

[Tracian]

Here is the reason according to the LDS:

Baptisms for the Dead

Jesus Christ taught that baptism is essential to the salvation of all who have lived on earth (see John 3:5). Many people, however, have died without being baptized. Others were baptized without proper authority. Because God is merciful, He has prepared a way for all people to receive the blessings of baptism. By performing proxy baptisms in behalf of those who have died, Church members offer these blessings to deceased ancestors. Individuals can then choose to accept or reject what has been done in their behalf.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d 82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=1ec52f2324d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____


I understand it is what they believe, but it seems odd to me, that they rarely pick the dead at random, it seems most often those chosen are famous for some reason or another.

[crocdog1]

Here is the reason according to the LDS:

Baptisms for the Dead

Jesus Christ taught that baptism is essential to the salvation of all who have lived on earth (see John 3:5). Many people, however, have died without being baptized. Others were baptized without proper authority. Because God is merciful, He has prepared a way for all people to receive the blessings of baptism. By performing proxy baptisms in behalf of those who have died, Church members offer these blessings to deceased ancestors. Individuals can then choose to accept or reject what has been done in their behalf.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d 82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=1ec52f2324d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____


I understand it is what they believe, but it seems odd to me, that they rarely pick the dead at random, it seems most often those chosen are famous for some reason or another.

What about those of us that do not want to accept the offerings of the Religious groups. How, do you know if they want to accept it in death? We do know that they rejected it in life. Sounds to me like people forcing their Religious beliefs and convictions on people who have already rejected their "offering."

It still seems a bit strange to me. I mean, if you did not accept their teachings whIle you were alive, why you accept it when you were dead.

Why were the Holocaust Jews chosen?

I do not believe this what was meant in the Christianity expressed by Jesus Christ, as He never forced other people to accept his teachings. And, he did not teach that people were going to Hell if they did not accept the faith based beliefs, values and convictions of certain Christian denominations.

JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION

[Tracian]

What about those of us that do not want to accept the offerings of the Religious groups. How, do you know if they want to accept it in death? We do know that they rejected it in life. Sounds to me like people forcing their Religious beliefs and convictions on people who have already rejected their "offering."

It still seems a bit strange to me. I mean, if you did not accept their teachings whIle you were alive, why you accept it when you were dead.

Why were the Holocaust Jews chosen?

I do not believe this what was meant in the Christianity expressed by Jesus Christ, as he never forced other people to accept his teachings. And, he did not teach that people were going to Hell if they did not accept the Christian beliefs, values and convictions of certain Christian denominations.

JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION


I am not a Mormon, I just offered the link just to give what they believe.

What it seems to me, is that according to their beliefs, once one crosses over, they cannot make the choice to be baptisted Mormon, rather, it has to be done on earth, by proxy with a Mormon in good standing with the church....the spirit, on the other side, then has the choice to accept the baptism, or not to accept the baptism.

From what I have been able to find out in regards to this practice, members bring the 'prospect' before the elders, and if elders agree to the prospect then the baptism is sactioned and done.

(That is my understanding, so if anyone can confirm, or correct..TIA)

So far, honestly, and this is not an attack on the Mormon Chruch...it seems that the majority of 'random' persons picked are those that are famous for some reason.

Here is something rather interesting:

The Catholics are not the only non-Mormons on the Church's International Genealogical Index (IGI), a list of those baptised or cleared for the rite in which a Mormon undergoes a full immersion baptism at a temple in the name of the dead person.

Jewish Holocaust victims, Protestant reformers Martin Luther and John Calvin and Mohammed ibn Abdel-Wahhab, founder of Saudi Arabia's stern version of Islam, have all popped up on the list.

A purged version of the IGI is on the Internet, at http://www.familysearch.org, a Web site run by the LDS church, but does not show which rites have been performed.

That data is reserved only for Mormons, who can consult it at one of the 3,400 Family History Centres worldwide where they go to enter names for these rites using special software. The rites are then performed at temples off-limits to non-Mormons.



http://www.javno.com/en-celebrities/will-pope-benedict-become-a-mormon-after-he-dies_18946

here is something else:

Nazi hunter off Mormon's heavenly list
December 20, 2006

Reuters

In life, Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal was among the most famous Jews of the 20th century.

In death, he wound up on a list of people eligible to be posthumously baptised as Mormons so they could enter heaven.

Bowing to protests from Jewish groups, The Church of Latter Day Saints has removed Wiesenthal's name from its International Genealogical Index, a database of names of people who be could be baptised after death.

A church spokesman said the Nazi hunter's name was taken off the list after receiving a complaint from the Simon Wiesenthal Centre, a Jewish human rights group named in his honour.

Rabbi Marvin Heir, the dean and founder of the group, said, "From their point of view they thought they were doing him a favour by making sure he can get into heaven.

"For us, it is very offensive. Simon Wiesenthal dedicated his whole life to Jews. I don't think he needs help getting into heaven."

In 1995, after the Wiesenthal Centre learned that the church was baptising Holocaust victims posthumously, the church agreed to stop the practice and removed 400,000 names from the index.

Mormon church spokesman Bruce Olsen said Wiesenthal was off the list. He also said it is policy "that members submit only names of their own ancestors for vicarious baptisms" and that the 1995 agreement was still in force.




more at link:

http://truthandgrace.com/deadbaptism.htm

[dref99]

I think perhaps you only get publicity about the "famous" folks in regard to the baptisms. Anyone who researches their family history makes use of the incredible resources provided free of charge by the LDS and finds the millions (billions?) who have gone through this process. Most non LDS researchers ignore the religious issues and are very happy to find the information about their family members.

Many thanks for your descriptions Tracian - much better than mine - although I do understand the concepts involved. I would think the President has more pressing issues to address than this one.


jmo

[Casspian]

As death is marching into the great unknown, I think anything that might help us is okay. For all I know, anyone or all of these religions could be right.

That could be one way to look at it, but I still find this practice disturbing for many reasons. Maybe I am just sick of others not honoring my religious beliefs. Since I moved, the JW's have been at my door on average about once a week. What's disturbing is that they have to doubly invade my privacy to do this because they have to open a gate into my front courtyard to even get at my door. I took it down now, but there was even a very visible 'no soliciting' sign by the front door. I would not want my name on anyone's list to be baptized into their church. It's almost like being on the 'too dirty or not quite good enough yet to get into heaven until we help them' list. It's arrogant.