May 4, 5, 6, 7

[M_J]

Less and less being said on here daily.

Lets hope for some breaking news.

[n/t]

Good Morning,

Yes. Less and less coverage. It's becoming more and more difficult to follow this case with nothing new reported. OPP isn't saying much.

"McDonald was to participate in a community-organized search yesterday while a police spokesperson said there was "nothing new" in the case. "

Also, dad "rips" Tori's captors online.


http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/04/9337806-sun.html

[n/t]

This is where Rodney wrote the message

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=78966007726

[virgogal]

Have you guys seen this link that appeared over the weekend??

http://crimesearchersonline.com/index.php?option=com_myblog&show=Who-Are-You-.html&Itemid=9

[n/t]

Have you guys seen this link that appeared over the weekend??

http://crimesearchersonline.com/index.php?option=com_myblog&show=Who-Are-You-.html&Itemid=9

Sure did. I hope LE locates her and questions her.

[virgogal]

Me too! It's quite a resemblance! I wonder if she is somehow connected to James Gorris?
If it is just a random look-alike...she must be feeling really anxious having her face plastered all over the net!

[M_J]

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/photo.php?pid=1486128&id=1476651221&ref=nf

this has the sketch with the unknown woman beside..

I'm just not sure why all these people are tagged? Maybe so they can see the picture?.. :confused:

Kind of upsetting when I typed into my search engine (..not sure if I can use website names in here.. can I?) "latest Tori Stafford news".. and nothing new comes up within the last 2 days.

I looked in my local paper (online) to see if there was anything in there, and unsurprisingly, theres not much.

Sadly, this week is the start of the media decline.

Maybe Tara will give us somethign new.. to keep the media going.

JMO.

[M_J]

Morning, M_J, thanks.

I started a new thread at the same time, don't know how to delete it. Any idea?

Good morning.

Great minds think alike. Hahaha.

I have no clue. Maybe just keep posting on either one or the other, and people will see which one to go to? I don't know? aha

[M_J]

Almost 23, 000 views on first thread.
under 4000 on last thread.

Just thought this was.. IDK the right word? Interesting sounds wrong.

[virgogal]

The guy in that video MUST be a relative of James'...they are practically IDENTICAL!

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/missing-ont-girl/#clip164457

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/04/15/tori_stafford_mom_and_BF250.jpg&imgrefurl=http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/04/15/9121336-sun.html&usg=__e1ZEU-9eHqHcx4X4d9ZXO7OYQls=&h=350&w=250&sz=26&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=lauVHyZsiJSvTM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=86&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djames%2Bgoris%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4AC AW_enCA308CA308%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

[virgogal]

It's actually a pretty VILE group with all sorts of mysogynystic and sexual content...

I reported it last night.....

[n/t]

The guy in that video MUST be a relative of James'...they are practically IDENTICAL!

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/missing-ont-girl/#clip164457

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/04/15/tori_stafford_mom_and_BF250.jpg&imgrefurl=http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/04/15/9121336-sun.html&usg=__e1ZEU-9eHqHcx4X4d9ZXO7OYQls=&h=350&w=250&sz=26&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=lauVHyZsiJSvTM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=86&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djames%2Bgoris%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4AC AW_enCA308CA308%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1


This getting more weird everyday. The woman looks like the sketch and the guy looks like mom's boyfriend. If this guy is James brother, could he be the "uncle" Tori was supposed to go to after school?

:blink:

[virgogal]

I was wondering the same thing!!

I'm sure the Police are on it...several people sent it to the OPP last night....

[n/t]

hmmmm.....they're showing Friday's PC now and they hope to go live to Woodstock at 1 pm. Maybe Tara will continue the PC's? :shrug:

http://www.mogulus.com/lfpress

[n/t]

I was wondering the same thing!!

I'm sure the Police are on it...several people sent it to the OPP last night....

Good. Maybe this is the break they're looking for!

[kelloggirl]

Have you guys seen this link that appeared over the weekend??

http://crimesearchersonline.com/index.php?option=com_myblog&show=Who-Are-You-.html&Itemid=9

Wow! The resemblance is quite strong, at least from that angle.

I feel that there is a strong possibility that Tara is involved, I think I wouldn't suspect her as strongly even with all the weird behavior she has exhibited if the video wasn't of a woman who bore such a strong resemblance to Tara. However, seeing the link above is forcing me to consider the possibility that another woman is Tori's abductor, which begs the question, why would someone else take Tori?

1. Childless woman wants child of her own - this has definitely happened, but usually I think the children are babies or very young toddlers. Possibility - very low

2. Woman accomplice of pedophile/child molestor - woman does the luring and takes child back to man. This is a little bit more common of a scenario. Possibility - medium

3. Woman was paid by someone connected to Tori to "kidnap" her - What kind of person would do this and be able to keep up the charade under the media/police scrutinity? Where would the mastermind get the money needed to convince someone to do it and keep Tori for an indefinite amount of time? Possibility - low/medium

4. Woman scorned by Gorris/angry at Tara for whatever reason kidnaps Tori as revenge - This person would have to know where Tara went to school and what time she got out, etc. Could Tara have those types of enemies? Possibility - medium.

5. Woman child predator kidnaps Tori for her own purposes - Like Melissa Huckaby and Sandra Cantu. It happens, but it's EXTREMELY rare. Possibility - Low

Honestly, none of these sound very plausible to me but I'm trying to keep an open mind. Are there other possibilities that make sense for a stranger abduction? And if Tara is involved, how long can she keep up the charade? She seems quite nonchalant, so I'd guess a long time. I really hope OPP will find some clues to break the case wide open.

Also, do any of you locals know of other Missing Children cases in the Woodstock area? Are there any similar disappearances that might lend credence to a stranger abduction theory?

[virgogal]

COULD be! In which case they must be really disconcerted about having their faces all over the net!

On the other hand...what are the odds of BOTH of tm having such incredible resemblances to this case??

[Hope4Tori]

This getting more weird everyday. The woman looks like the sketch and the guy looks like mom's boyfriend. If this guy is James brother, could he be the "uncle" Tori was supposed to go to after school?

:blink:

Hey n/t!:) I was finally able to see the video portion last night and I saw similarities too - but the strange thing for me is that I remember thinking when the sketch was first released how the woman in that drawing seemed to have a similar mouth and chin to James Goris from a photo I had seen of him front on and looking straight at the camera - of course I knew it wasn't him in the sketch but I did wonder about a possible relative of his but presumed that all the people close to the family would have been "looked at" quite closely by LE and other family members. It would appear that the couple in the video/photo from the links are just that - a couple - but perhaps they could just be related like brother/sister or cousin etc. - who knows.

Can anyone here explain to me why if there is a credible eyewitness, (and presuming LE deemed them credible enough to have released the sketch based on their information) and presuming they are seeing all the same public faces we are, they could not confirm or rule out the possible suspects like Tara or this woman or others? And if they could/have done - why are we not hearing about it? What is it about this issue that I don't understand??

[n/t]

Hey n/t!:) I was finally able to see the video portion last night and I saw similarities too - but the strange thing for me is that I remember thinking when the sketch was first released how the woman in that drawing seemed to have a similar mouth and chin to James Goris from a photo I had seen of him front on and looking straight at the camera - of course I knew it wasn't him in the sketch but I did wonder about a possible relative of his but presumed that all the people close to the family would have been "looked at" quite closely by LE and other family members. It would appear that the couple in the video/photo from the links are just that - a couple - but perhaps they could just be related like brother/sister or cousin etc. - who knows.

Can anyone here explain to me why if there is a credible eyewitness, (and presuming LE deemed them credible enough to have released the sketch based on their information) and presuming they are seeing all the same public faces we are, they could not confirm or rule out the possible suspects like Tara or this woman or others? And if they could/have done - why are we not hearing about it? What is it about this issue that I don't understand??


Hiya!

To answer your last question, in my opinion they don't have enough evidence to confirm or rule out anyone yet. The witness may have said the abductor looked like the mom but he/she isn't 100% certain.

I recently read an article on CTV Toronto about Toronto Police releasing sketches of 2 sex assault suspects. Look how clear these sketches are.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090501/assault_suspects_090501/20090501?hub=TorontoNewHome

Maybe the witness in Tori's case didn't get a clear and close up view of the abductor? :shrug:

[M_J]

Also, do any of you locals know of other Missing Children cases in the Woodstock area? Are there any similar disappearances that might lend credence to a stranger abduction theory?

respectfully snipped. :)

All the points you have made very thought provoking. Lets hope LE has people working for them like those in this board.

As I have stated before, I live in Southern Ontario, about 1.5 hours away from Woodstock, and I can honestly say I have not heard about any other recent, abductions at all. That whole area is fairly rural, with cities/towns every few miles, but for the most part is quiet.

But - When I travel to London to see my husbands grandparents, we usually take the more "less travelled" routes..

I know London is big, but other than that.. personaly I don't think theres a lot out there.

I think that was a big reason OPP stepped in and took over from the local PD.

Small towns can be good because people know one another, but if this is the case, why Tori? Why didn't a neighbour or ANYONE stop this abductor.

IMO. People are too concerned about themselves, and they don't give a crud about anyone else. They are far to self-centered (for the most part), and to them, who cares, a little girl was (possibly) crying as someone was walking her home, maybe they thought she was just having a "hissy fit".. or maybe like I said.. they just didn't care. :mad:

[M_J]

Hiya!

To answer your last question, in my opinion they don't have enough evidence to confirm or rule out anyone yet. The witness may have said the abductor looked like the mom but he/she isn't 100% certain.

I recently read an article on CTV Toronto about Toronto Police releasing sketches of 2 sex assault suspects. Look how clear these sketches are.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090501/assault_suspects_090501/20090501?hub=TorontoNewHome

Maybe the witness in Tori's case didn't get a clear and close up view of the abductor? :shrug:


- I think that there is a big difference in Toronto's sketch artists, and Woodstock's sketch artists. Toronto is a much bigger city, and they are aloted much bigger "allowances" for such things. Places like Woodstock, unfoutunately, get left behind.

[M_J]

Thanks, Kinetic. I reported it and requested removal, don't know if it did any good, but it's something!

I did too, I imagine it won't be up much longer.

The person who made the group mentioned something about having to start a new group again.

It must get removed often. They must not care, and just keep re-making it.

[Hope4Tori]

Hiya!

To answer your last question, in my opinion they don't have enough evidence to confirm or rule out anyone yet. The witness may have said the abductor looked like the mom but he/she isn't 100% certain.

I recently read an article on CTV Toronto about Toronto Police releasing sketches of 2 sex assault suspects. Look how clear these sketches are.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090501/assault_suspects_090501/20090501?hub=TorontoNewHome

Maybe the witness in Tori's case didn't get a clear and close up view of the abductor? :shrug:

Thanks so much for your reply n/t:smile: - I am not experienced in the reasoning behind the use of suspect sketches obviously. I am confused because if the person did not get a good look at the suspect, how in the world was such a detailed drawing done up and why would it be released to the public if there was doubt with respect to it's accuracy?

Truthfully, I think if it was not based on a really strong and credible eyewitness description, IMO it could be perceived by the public as having being conveniently drawn up to look like Tara, if she is the prime suspect in the case by LE's point of view, and if that scenario is possible, I find that highly disturbing. JMO - but what do I know!

I am not by nature a skeptic, and I want to have confidence that LE is doing everything possible for Tori, but I have heard that police sometimes set their sights on a suspect before having enough evidence and then they work to make the evidence fit the suspect, while disregarding other possible suspects, and I just hope they are not employing that type of tunnel vision in Tori's case. I can only wonder what's up - because we have no idea of what direction the case is going from LE's standpoint to date.

Whomever has Tori, I hope they return her to safety soon!:wub:

[girlfriday]

hmmmm.....they're showing Friday's PC now and they hope to go live to Woodstock at 1 pm. Maybe Tara will continue the PC's? :shrug:

http://www.mogulus.com/lfpress

I wish someone there would ask about the missing dog rumour!

[Hope4Tori]

[QUOTE=n/t;13070946]Hiya!

respectively snipped
I recently read an article on CTV Toronto about Toronto Police releasing sketches of 2 sex assault suspects. Look how clear these sketches are.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090501/assault_suspects_090501/20090501?hub=TorontoNewHome
QUOTE]

Hey n/t - Perhaps the Woodstock police or OPP should have and maybe still should contact the artist that did those sketches - not everyone's a Rembrandt :rolleyes:- and as a proud Torontonian - I think our police service has access to world class resources - but I'm just being snobby now - sorry!:sneaky:

Hoping for Tori's safe return home - soon!!:wub:

[M_J]

If you scroll right down to the bottom of the page, closer to the bottom of the page, you can click on "Report Group"

[Hope4Tori]

I wish someone there would ask about the missing dog rumour!

Hey Girlfriday - THANK YOU:thumbsup: - Yes, Hello!!! ITA and have been patiently awaiting an answer!:smile:

Hoping for good news about Tori today!:wub:

[n/t]

Sheeesh...they're having the same technical problems they did Friday. :rolleyes:

[n/t]

Who are?:confused:

London free press..the ones who have the live streams of the conferences.

[streeter]

The family also needs an experienced PR person to help them out here imo. Surely someone can volunteer a bit of time?

In my opinion, the only party who can and should be helping Tara and Rodney with their use of the media is the police.

They should be working with the victim's family on this. Even Penny frickin' Boudreau was sitting at a table with police by her side when she made her plea. Why aren't the police advising Tara on what to say and what not to say on camera? They are, IMO, the only "experts" on dealing with abductors. I can see the Woodstock cops dropping the ball on this, but not the OPP.

Unless there is a reason why they aren't helping her, the cops are blundering, too, every time Tara opens her mouth.

[M_J]

I think they really are having technicial difficulties.

Otherwise they'd say they will show it, but not live stream. Correct? Does Tara have a say whether or not it is live?

[days of yore]

The guy in that video MUST be a relative of James'...they are practically IDENTICAL!

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/missing-ont-girl/#clip164457

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/04/15/tori_stafford_mom_and_BF250.jpg&imgrefurl=http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/04/15/9121336-sun.html&usg=__e1ZEU-9eHqHcx4X4d9ZXO7OYQls=&h=350&w=250&sz=26&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=lauVHyZsiJSvTM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=86&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djames%2Bgoris%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4AC AW_enCA308CA308%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

ITA. There seems to be a few Goris boys around the London area, so I am also curious. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the younger brother & girlfriend...

[nova1998]

London Free Press.
I think we're being fed crap.
Think it's possible that Tara's telling them she doesn't want it live streamed because her family is inside the house watching what people type?
That's what I think it is, and if it is then that Editor in Chief from the London Free Press can stick his whole "......getting tired of Tara McDonald...." stance where the sun don't shine.
:cursing:

That could be a good possibility, Kinetic. I wonder if the press arrive and then the family announce they won't do a live PC. No chat box for people to type in, less people watching them so less stress and better control over what they say.

[Hope4Tori]

In my opinion, the only party who can and should be helping Tara and Rodney with their use of the media is the police.

They should be working with the victim's family on this. Even Penny frickin' Boudreau was sitting at a table with police by her side when she made her plea. Why aren't the police advising Tara on what to say and what not to say on camera? They are, IMO, the only "experts" on dealing with abductors. I can see the Woodstock cops dropping the ball on this, but not the OPP.

Unless there is a reason why they aren't helping her, the cops are blundering, too, every time Tara opens her mouth.

OMG Streeter - you are so right on!!! :thumbsup: I too had wondered all along about the lack of police assistance and guidance as stated in one of my earliest posts because IMO the lack of public support on the part of LE for the victim's family gives the impression, intended or not, that the family is suspect - and - as we have all witnessed when the family of the victim is left to their own devices the outcome is less than ideal - and what is most worrisome is that without guidance and support of LE for the family they both may be unwittingly be placing Tori in jeopardy without realizing it, JMO.

And I don't know if the perecived lack of police support for the family is LE's choice or the family's or both, but if it is the LE's choice only and if things do not end up well for Tori, could they not be held liable in some way??

Wishing and hoping for Tori's safe arrival home soon!!:wub:

[M_J]

I don't know :shrug:
London Free Press's Editor in Chief made it sound like his reporters were totally powerless at Tara's pcs.
Today's pc was probably going to be about the bike rally any-ways and the press will probably ask the same lame questions again.

How much money was raised?
Was the bike ride cold?
When did it start raining?
Where will the money go?
Were you hoping for better weather?

LAME!!!!

uhh.. don't forget the latest pressing question

"James said the ride was 'awesome', but you were reportedly bawling. Can you tell us why you were upset?"

Sorry Tara, the news didn't catch you "bawling". How unfourtunate, the one time she bawls, no one saw.

[days of yore]

Brantford is in the opposite direction of London.

It's not too far of a drive. I'm from here and I'm sure many drove to the vigil from a lot of the surrounding areas to show their support.

[girlfriday]

Hey Girlfriday - THANK YOU:thumbsup: - Yes, Hello!!! ITA and have been patiently awaiting an answer!:smile:

Hoping for good news about Tori today!:wub:

It's an angle that needs to be looked at with the mention (rumour?) of Family Day - the Dog Park - the missing dog.

Imagine a perp looking for a target in a public setting (a family with a child and a pet) - Family Day at the Dog Park - the perp decides on a target and then watches and waits (over time) for an opportunity to steal the target families dog when unattended - then the perp watches and waits (over time) for the opportunity to approach target familes child when unattended about having 'found' their dog (perhaps shows the child a cell phone picture of it or describes it perfectly) - the perp immediately attempts to lure the child away (to a waiting vehicle perhaps) in the guise of retrieving the dog and all the while the perp is secure in knowing that they already have a believable back up plan to explain what they are doing leading the child away, since they can actually produce and return the dog, should they be intercepted before they manage to get away with the child.

Likelyhood of that??? (maybe I just read way too may detective rags growing up)

[nova1998]

nova1998 has a good theory and it's the most logical I've heard.
The only way the captor could have gone is to cross the street and go down Walter Street.
A car could've been parked in the parking lot of J&P Variety.
J&P Variety is located on Norwich Avenue.
Norwich Avenue leads to the 401.

If the POI did cross the street to go down Walter Street, this avoids going past where they used to live on Fyfe Street, and also avoids going past Trillium place where an uncle is supposed to live.
In which case, if the person avoided going by these places, it's definitely someone the family and Tori knows/knew that took her.

Hey Kinetic - Did I tell you about the 4:15 p.m. theory I had? Did I post it?

[n/t]

ooops....I didn't realize you posted occam's razor theory.:laugh:

[Hope4Tori]

It's an angle that needs to be looked at with the mention (rumour?) of Family Day - the Dog Park - the missing dog.

Imagine a perp looking for a target in a public setting (a family with a child and a pet) - Family Day at the Dog Park - the perp decides on a target and then watches and waits (over time) for an opportunity to steal the target families dog when unattended - then the perp watches and waits (over time) for the opportunity to approach target familes child when unattended about having 'found' their dog (perhaps shows the child a cell phone picture of it or describes it perfectly) - the perp immediately attempts to lure the child away (to a waiting vehicle perhaps) in the guise of retrieving the dog and all the while the perp is secure in knowing that they already have a believable back up plan to explain what they are doing leading the child away, since they can actually produce and return the dog, should they be intercepted before they manage to get away with the child.

Likelyhood of that??? (maybe I just read way too may detective rags growing up)

Hey Girlfriday - :thumbsup: I truly believe your theory is possible - and if there was a car waiting - as in Nova1998's theory - perhaps the dog was in the car and Tori felt safer to get in without a big fuss. I can totally see that scenario - and maybe I'm crazy - but I cannot help but feel that the dog is important somehow.

Hoping Tori is found alive and well today!!:wub:

[nova1998]

I'm not sure nova1998.
I've been following your theory so far and can't remember now :confused:
Sorry:sad:

OK - Give me a minute or so and I'll post it up - I don't think I did because I was so tired from going through all those vids frame by frame..

[n/t]

FWIW.....I still believe it's someone Tori knew and trusted.

[days of yore]

London Free Press.
I think we're being fed crap.
Think it's possible that Tara's telling them she doesn't want it live streamed because her family is inside the house watching what people type?
That's what I think it is, and if it is then that Editor in Chief from the London Free Press can stick his whole "......getting tired of Tara McDonald...." stance where the sun don't shine.
:cursing:

Oooooh...what an interesting theory!!!

[Hope4Tori]

FWIW.....I still believe it's someone Tori knew and trusted.

Hey n/t - me too - at least someone whom was not a complete stranger - but Girlfriday's do theory is plausible to me because it doesn't rule out that a person "known" to Tori and/or her family could have first stolen the dog for the very purpose of luring Tori away at a later date and as Girlfriday said, if caught in the act when leading Tori away she would have had a viable explanation and I'm sure, if that had happened (being caught) know one in Tori's family would have had reason to suspect her of wrongdoing and would have probably just felt grateful that the dog was being returned. JMO

[nova1998]

When I went back to the previous cases I've looked at, those cases when a boyfriend or husband had a girlfriend/wife go missing, but who were actually found later on to be involved in the disappearance, I looked at their accounts of what happened, and, in all cases, it was the starting point of their timelines which were not in fact true (i.e. I dropped her off at the supermarket at 4 p.m. and never saw her again/We got into a fight and she left the house at 2 p.m. and that was the last I saw her).

So, I decided to question the 4:15 p.m. aspect (the starting point of TM's timeline) because there could be reasons why it not might be factual. So, with that in mind, I thought of the possibility that the boy may have in fact headed towards the new house right after school. And with this a whole new other theory line of reasoning and general sequence of events emerged.


Original Timeline (verion #1)
1. Acc. to TM, boy had off to help some disabled kids back to their old place where they lived (I am sure she had said something about back to their old place).

2. Video taken at 3:33 or so.

3. TM says she was at home when boy arrived back at 4:15p.m.

Assumption: If he gone had in a different direction escorting some kids, and came back at 4:15p.m., then you could assume that it is not him in the video. Their scenario is very plausible: TM at home, boy comes back at 4:15, girl just disappeared.

As an experiment, I disregarded the 4:15 aspect and changed the timeframe around like this:

Timeline version #2
1. Boy doesn't help any disabled kids back to their homes, but leaves for home in that direction. Sister would be leaving around same time.

2. Video taken at 3:33 p.m.

Assumption: It could be them caught in the line of camera. And if the boy knows the man, and the woman is in fact talking to the man, they all know each other.

However, the video came out AFTER the missing persons report was filed that she never returned home. And they would never have known about the video. Therefore, if it was them, the video would be completely contrary to what they said. So, the 4:15 p.m. time aspect is constantly stressed. I would assume that if a fabrication was made in the initial report they would have had to have said the boy went off in some other direction as well at that time because they would have had to account for him as well (Police Officer: Didn't she come back with the brother? TM: No, he wasn't with another boy helping him to his home").

I don't think he has been back to school since, and that may be part of the reason - to keep their own version intact.

Loose lips sinks ships.

[days of yore]

Some great theories:thumbsup:

Anyone have a "WHY"?

On the boards, I've heard everything from 'to pay a drug debt' (with various reasons for the drug debt, ranging from James' drug problem, to James having witnessed a murder with the Bandito's gang, etc.), to trying to raise funds out of pity for the family, to being vindictive to her ex-husband.

I still believe that Tara was trying to be vindictive to Rodney. She did a press conference a while back and when asked the question "why", she replied with something along the lines of....'I think it was someone who was trying to be mildly vindictive to her and that it [the situation] has gotten out of hand and they don't know what to do now'. I think that this is as close as she has gotten to telling the truth and those thoughts are about her. It's gotten out of hand and now she doesn't know how to get herself out of it. :sneaky:

[streeter]

Yup...and I like Occam's razor theory..

"The simplest explanation is usually the best one."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

From that wikipedia entry:

"The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory."

:blink:

I like our definition better. :lol:

[nova1998]

I like your theory/theories nova1998
One thing I'm not quite getting and it's nothing to do with your theory/theories but more with LE
Wouldn't LE have questioned the parents of the disabled children to find out if Daryn did walk those kids home that day?
It was reported that it was customary for Daryn to walk the disabled kids home, surely LE would've inquired about this, wouldn't they have?

Wasn't it also reported that LE searched McDonald's old residence?
I'm thinking this is why LE is meticulously searching the landfill. I think they're hoping to find something from Tara's old residence.

Very possible that they did, and possibly even found such a discrepancy. Or the son may not have been interviewed, so they may not have been able to ascertain exactly whom he was to have escorted home (they may have just interviewed disabled children in the area without knowing who it was he was to escorted). Or should he HAVE been interviewed, he could have said "I didn't know their names, I just went as far as such-and-such a place with them". I leave nothing untouched - LOL

[streeter]

*respectfully snipped*

I still believe that Tara was trying to be vindictive to Rodney. She did a press conference a while back and when asked the question "why", she replied with something along the lines of....'I think it was someone who was trying to be mildly vindictive to her and that it [the situation] has gotten out of hand and they don't know what to do now'. I think that this is as close as she has gotten to telling the truth and those thoughts are about her. It's gotten out of hand and now she doesn't know how to get herself out of it. :sneaky:

Wasn't there a case in Canada in the 80s of a mother going into the bank and leaving the baby in the car, and the baby was abducted, but it turned out to be family members teaching her a lesson about leaving the baby in the car, and something went horribly wrong and the baby died? I tried googling some key words but couldn't find anything. I'm sure this happened in Ontario in the 80s. Anyone?

[n/t]

What's also interesting is we haven't seen anyone (friends, neighbours, etc) say they were there when Tara frantically started to search for Tori. That they helped her search, etc etc. That Tara or Rodney called them in a panic....

Did any of them come forward and I missed it?

[nova1998]

What's also interesting is we haven't seen anyone (friends, neighbours, etc) say they were there when Tara frantically started to search for Tori. That they helped her search, etc etc. That Tara or Rodney called them in a panic....

Did any of them come forward and I missed it?

I haven't been able to find anything like that too. I'm still trying though.

[days of yore]

Wasn't there a case in Canada in the 80s of a mother going into the bank and leaving the baby in the car, and the baby was abducted, but it turned out to be family members teaching her a lesson about leaving the baby in the car, and something went horribly wrong and the baby died? I tried googling some key words but couldn't find anything. I'm sure this happened in Ontario in the 80s. Anyone?

Boy, I'm not sure?!? I do know of a woman who told me a story about her husband doing this. She left her car running in the driveway, warming it up, and her husband came home to see this and drove away with the kids in the car.

Not a nice lesson for the mom, but she did say that this served it's purpose.

I'll have to search around a little bit and see if I can find out about this.

[girlfriday]

Some great theories:thumbsup:

Anyone have a "WHY"?

If it was a stranger - well God forbid - no explaination required.

If it was someone known to the family the why is tougher because of the rumour mill.

But not pointing at anyone - just thinking out loud (based on what I read or heard about before)

- someone in the family taking her away to protect her from her family situation
- financially motivated guise of abduction without (physical) harm to her to generate donations
- financially motivated concent to exploit and or harm her under the guise of abduction in exchange for payment
- intentions of foulplay
-cover-up of situation gone bad (death)

Retaliation and randsom don't seem to fit - since communitcation would have been expected.

JMO

[nova1998]

Right, Daryn may be intimidated, the others wouldn't.

In many cases where the mother/father has been involved in the disappearance of the other spouse or even other child, the other child/children have often known about it. One of the most common rationales given to that child, when being asked to keep something a secret and to say something quite opposite of what happened, is that if they don't, the family will be split up and he/she will have to go to foster care. Of course, this may not be what would really happen - the son might go to the father or the grandmother, but he wouldn't know that.

[n/t]

I haven't been able to find anything like that too. I'm still trying though.

Do we know if Tara went to the school to look for her? Did she talk to anyone at the school? Anybody in the area? :huh:

[nova1998]

If it was a stranger - well God forbid - no explaination required.

If it was someone known to the family the why is tougher because of the rumour mill.

But not pointing at anyone - just thinking out loud (based on what I read or heard about before)

- someone in the family taking her away to protect her from her family situation
- financially motivated guise of abduction without (physical) harm to her to generate donations
- financially motivated concent to exploit and or harm her under the guise of abduction in exchange for payment
- intentions of foulplay
-cover-up of situation gone bad (death)

Retaliation and randsom don't seem to fit - since communitcation would have been expected.

JMO

Hi GirlFriday and Lizziegirl,
As to why, I did make up a list going from most probable to the least probable, with reasons as to why. I even had UFO abduction at the bottom just so I could include everything..I am running out of time now as I soon got to go, but I will post if this evening if you want.

[Hope4Tori]

Some great theories:thumbsup:

Anyone have a "WHY"?

Hey Lizziegirl and everyone here! :smile: I know mine is not a popular theory - especially since I have no facts to support it - but I have had a gut feeling right from the beginning that the perp(s) will end up being somehow loosely connected to Tori's Dad, Rodney - why? Perhaps the woman has a warped fascination with him and may have some sort of crazy jealousy over Tara and whose purpose was to seriously hurt Tara and somehow, in her crazy mind, she thought that she could get closer to Rodney through this experience. Of course that's not an understandable "why" but but it could be possible and we would have to be crazy too to truly understand a crazy person's motivations, IMO.

Is there ever a rational answer as to why anyone would abduct a child other than perhaps by a parent who is rightly or wrongly trying to protect the child from an abusive parent?

If the perp(s) intention was to severely harm Tara, as my gut tells me, that motivation has succeeded, IMO, but now that Rodney has publically and angrily denounced the perp(s) - if my theory proved to have any basis in fact, then I think that could really upset the perp(s) and could prove counterproductive.

I also think based on my intuition only that the perp is all around - hovering in plain sight - but is not a well-known person to the family - kind of like a hanger on type with bizarre fantasies. I know it's really out there - but it too is possible - and when Tara says maybe the person just let the situation get way out of hand - I have no idea as to her reasoning - but to me that could be the case and the abductor and an accomplice, if applicable, could be in way over their heads and not know how to end this well for all concerned.

I have always had the strong feeling that Tori will not be physically/sexually harmed by her abductor(s), and I have always thought she would be found safe and sound or let go by her captor(s), and I hope I'm right about those particular gut feelings above all others, but when I examine the facts that we know, I am left to question my own intuition.

Perhaps my theory only proves that I am a victim of my own wishful thinking.

May today be the day Tori is found safe and sound!:wub:

[days of yore]

Agreed. Have we heard any more about the "mysterious benefactor"?

Nope, only saw an interview with 2 retired police officers who spent 20 some odd years doing profiling. They basically scoffed at the idea of this happening.

Another interview I read (in print, and I think others have mentioned it on here), a retired police officer (might have been a quote from one of the same men), said that this is most likely a family dispute.

I agree with everyone who has said that LE probably knows more than they are saying. It took some retired police officers, not related to the case to speak up. I'm sure those on the job have also been on top of these theories, too. :unsure:

[n/t]

Police give Tori's parents list of possible suspects in her abduction — press conference video later today

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/04/9345966.html


:unsure:

[nova1998]

News about today's PC:
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/04/9345966.html

[n/t]

I never heard of cops giving the parents a list of suspects!!!!!!!!!:cursing:

[girlfriday]

Hi GirlFriday and Lizziegirl,
As to why, I did make up a list going from most probable to the least probable, with reasons as to why. I even had UFO abduction at the bottom just so I could include everything..I am running out of time now as I soon got to go, but I will post if this evening if you want.


LOL - sure thing - we'd like to see you especially explain that one...maybe it can tie into one of the psychic exploits (not that I think they are all exploiting)...:tonguewag:

[Hope4Tori]

I don't know :shrug:
London Free Press's Editor in Chief made it sound like his reporters were totally powerless at Tara's pcs.
Today's pc was probably going to be about the bike rally any-ways and the press will probably ask the same lame questions again.

How much money was raised?
Was the bike ride cold?
When did it start raining?
Where will the money go?
Were you hoping for better weather?

LAME!!!!

OMG Kinetic - I thought when I first saw your post that the above lame questions were actually asked at the pc - glad to see you're just being sarcastic - and skeptical of the press like me - I'm still reading to catch up with everyone's posts of the day and I feel I am falling behind!

Hoping to hear good news for Tori today!:wub:

[nova1998]

LOL - sure thing - we'd like to see you especially explain that one...maybe it can tie into one of the psychic exploits (not that I think they are all exploiting)...:tonguewag:


OK - will do. I have to go now but will be back tonight..

[n/t]

OPP is an embarassment. No offense to my fellow Canadians but c'mon!! Is this a joke??

I have never heard of the police giving parents a list of possible suspects!!!

Good lord.


ETA: And to top it off....parents respond by mom knows none and dad possibly knows some. :cursing:

[Nen]

This case is getting more bizzare by the day. The woman in that link does look like the sketch, but to me so does Tara and Tara's friend. So confusing.

I don't see why the LE would give them a list of suspects. Couldn't that lead to false arrests, finger pointing...things like that.

I'm confident that the OPP know exactly what they're doing.

[nova1998]

OPP is an embarassment. No offense to my fellow Canadians but c'mon!! Is this a joke??

I have never heard of the police giving parents a list of possible suspects!!!

Good lord.


ETA: And to top it off....parents respond by mom knows none and dad possibly knows some. :cursing:

OK - Just one more post before I go.

Speaking of embarrassment - do you know who Kim Rossmo is? And who fired him? He was one of Canada's best - he developed Geographic Profiling. But the Vancouver police department fired him around 2000 or so because they didn't like his suggestions that there was a serial killer in Vancouver, and they dismissed his theories. He turned out to be right - the serial killer was Robert Pickton.

[n/t]

Oh LOL, sorry about that.
That's just me being frustrated with the press now. I think some of us on here are frustrated.
At first I thought the press was doing a good job, but looking back at it, the press hasn't really been outstanding.

Neither have the cops, imo. This was a disaster from the start.:thumbdown:

[Hope4Tori]

my bold

:seeya: H4T. I don't think so.

All of our theories are simply that ~ theories. Any and all need to be considered and respected. My own gut tells me she is safe, I couldn't say unharmed emotionally, but physically OK. I cannot understand using a small child for these personal vendettas, but jealousy, drugs, debts, who knows what, can make people act in ways that are a mystery to those of us who are not there.

All we can do is continue to pray/hope for Tori's safe return. Today??

Thank you Lizziegirl for your respectful post and for not outright laughing at my theory!:) Of course no matter whose theory proves right or even close, that's if ever we will know the answers as we all hope to, surely at the very least Tori will be emotionally scarred for life unless she loses or has already lost the fight. I hate to even think about her in those terms let alone put that possibilibity in writing and I will continue to believe and . . .

hope that Tori will be found alive and well in some moment soon!!:wub:

[days of yore]

OPP is an embarassment. No offense to my fellow Canadians but c'mon!! Is this a joke??

I have never heard of the police giving parents a list of possible suspects!!!

Good lord.


ETA: And to top it off....parents respond by mom knows none and dad possibly knows some. :cursing:

Maybe they are trying to 'jog' the parents' memories about a possible connection, fight, disagreement or other reason for abducting Tori? Maybe they really did have a good reason for postponing today's conference. Let's hope it leads to a break in the case!!

[n/t]

OK - Just one more post before I go.

Speaking of embarrassment - do you know who Kim Rossmo is? And who fired him? He was one of Canada's best - he developed Geographic Profiling. But the Vancouver police department fired him around 2000 or so because they didn't like his suggestions that there was a serial killer in Vancouver, and they dismissed his theories. He turned out to be right - the serial killer was Robert Pickton.

No offense but I think I missed your point. What does that have to do with cops giving the parents of a missing child a list of possible suspects? :unsure:

[n/t]

Maybe they are trying to 'jog' the parents' memories about a possible connection, fight, disagreement or other reason for abducting Tori? Maybe they really did have a good reason for postponing today's conference. Let's hope it leads to a break in the case!!

Where did you get that they postponed today's conference???:confused:

Good lord...are we all following the same case?


Sorry but you don't give "victims" a list of possible suspects and then the "victims" make the announcement that they know who the police have as possible suspects.


If this wasn't so sad, it would be laughable!

[streeter]

Maybe they are trying to 'jog' the parents' memories about a possible connection, fight, disagreement or other reason for abducting Tori? Maybe they really did have a good reason for postponing today's conference. Let's hope it leads to a break in the case!!

Did this information about a suspect list come out of Tara's new conference that wasn't broadcast due to technical difficulties?

Because if that's where it came from -- Tara -- then I'm taking it with a grain of salt.

[days of yore]

Where did you get that they postponed today's conference???:confused:

Good lord...are we all following the same case?


Sorry but you don't give "victims" a list of possible suspects and then the "victims" make the announcement that they know who the police have as possible suspects.


If this wasn't so sad, it would be laughable!

I was just going by the moderator's message on the live feed. Something along the lines of it being available later.

If in fact, Tara is involved, giving a list of possible suspects may panic her. I believe that this is a tactic they are using to 'smoke the bugs out of the woodwork'...

I agree....it's ALL quite sad & laughable!!

[Hope4Tori]

Oh LOL, sorry about that.
That's just me being frustrated with the press now. I think some of us on here are frustrated.
At first I thought the press was doing a good job, but looking back at it, the press hasn't really been outstanding.

Hey Kinetic - :thumbsup: yes agreed - and as you all know I'm on the record with my notoriously long rants about the press and all the other things I find disturbing about Tori's case!

We're all friends here - so let's make sure we all use our energies to focus only on all the glaring shortcomings of the case and not on one another's. And please don't misinterpret my statement, as I am not pointing fingers at anyone - it's just a suggestion and a reminder for all of us because our board is special when compared to any other board out there and I hope to see it stay that way!:wub:

Hoping to hear good news for Tori today!:wub:

[days of yore]

Did this information about a suspect list come out of Tara's new conference that wasn't broadcast due to technical difficulties?

Because if that's where it came from -- Tara -- then I'm taking it with a grain of salt.

No, not from Tara.

Here is the link, with the headline about the video being available later.

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/04/9345966.html

[n/t]

I was just going by the moderator's message on the live feed. Something along the lines of it being available later.

If in fact, Tara is involved, giving a list of possible suspects may panic her. I believe that this is a tactic they are using to 'smoke the bugs out of the woodwork'...

I agree....it's ALL quite sad & laughable!!

They were having technical problems. The conference was held. They just didn't live stream it so they will post it later.

[days of yore]

They were having technical problems. The conference was held. They just didn't live stream it so they will post it later.

yup. That's what I read on the live stream feed. The article that I posted the link to, also said that the police "were" to release an update today on the investigation.

I wonder if it will happen later today??

[days of yore]

No, not from Tara.

Here is the link, with the headline about the video being available later.

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/04/9345966.html

Let me reword this...the article doesn't state who said this, so actually, it may be something that Tara said today in her conference.

[Hope4Tori]

OPP is an embarassment. No offense to my fellow Canadians but c'mon!! Is this a joke??

I have never heard of the police giving parents a list of possible suspects!!!

Good lord.


ETA: And to top it off....parents respond by mom knows none and dad possibly knows some. :cursing:

my bold

Hey n/t - I have not yet reason enough to have confidence never mind blind faith in LE to date - but my mind is always open to change - if based upon something credibly convincing!

This thread has been hopping busy today and I can't keep up but if I may be so bold to suggest, my crazy theory just may have legs . . or at least a few toes!:)

Hoping that today really may be the day Tori is found alive and well!:wub:

[n/t]

Is it me or is the picture a lot clearer than that grainy video that we've been shown?

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/04/9345966.html

Police have released a photo of a vehicle whose driver may have witnessed Tori Stafford's abduction.

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/04/VOI_3.jpg

[Hope4Tori]

Wonder what would've happened if a psychic would've said Burger King?
KIDDING!!!!

Hey Kinetic - A great sense of humour has a wonderful way of instilling much needed perspective - thanks for yours - I always can count on you making me smile!:smile::smile:

Really gotta run now, as usual I'm running late~

Hoping with all my heart that when I turn on 680 News on my car radio I will hear breaking news reporting that Tori has been found alive and well!:wub:

[girlfriday]

Wonder what would've happened if a psychic would've said Burger King?
KIDDING!!!!

Wendy's ? :tonguewag:

[n/t]

It looks a lot clearer to me too.
Wonder if they cleaned it up enough to pull a plate number?

Question pertaining to this article.
Why would it be the police giving names to Tara and Rodney?
Didn't Tara and Rodney give names to LE?
:confused:

There's something just not making sense. If they cleaned it up for this photo, they could've cleaned it up to show the "abductor".

I don't understand how they can get such a clear picture of the car and the surroundings and when it comes to the original video of the alleged abduction, it's black and white and blurred.

What are they holding back and why??

[n/t]

It's a station wagon.

----

The make and the model of the station wagon haven't been identified yet, but police hope the images will spur additional witnesses to come forward.


http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20090504%2fTori_Car_090504

[streeter]

Assuming the LFP got the "list" info from Tara's press conference, I am doubtful that this is a "suspect" list. Tara has screwed up the stories in the re-telling so many times in the past that I don't imagine that the context of the list presented to her is what she thinks it is. I'll have to wait until I see the presser myself to pass any different judgement.

I would be interested to know the amount of time that passed between the abduction and this car passing through the video. It does look clearer, but I also noticed more sunshine in the one released today. Does anyone else notice this? Maitland said the car passed through AFTER the abduction, so maybe enough time passed that the sun came away from behind clouds, or maybe it was many minutes later when the sun came out from behind a building.

[n/t]

Investigators have further been able to confirm through surveillance
video that Victoria Stafford and her abductor were last observed walking east
across Fyfe Ave. and crossing into the parking lot of Caressant Care Nursing
and Retirement home.
Investigators are hopeful that releasing this information of Victoria and
her abductor may assist the public in offering further information.
The release of the footage was postponed as attempts were being made to
enhance the quality of the images before its release.


http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/May2009/04/c8267.html

[n/t]

Do I look impressed? ---------:mad:

It took them more than a month for this? Tori isn't even my child and I'm disgusted and furious.

[n/t]

Doesn't make sense to me either n/t but I agree with you.
It does seem like they're holding something back now that you've mentioned if they can clean up that part of the vid, how come they can't clean up the frame of the abductor?

Also want to thank you for the link.
I would never have guessed that vehicle was a station wagon.
From the grainy footage, I thought it to be a mini van until now.

Well....OPP is not saying what the make of the car is but it seems like reporters figured out on their own just like some of our wonderful posters here figured out which way they were headed and as soon as I read the nursing home, I thought "Well duh,,,,,we could've told you that!"

I am so frustrated.

[n/t]

How about they improve the grainy quality of the actual 'abduction' !! How long will that take:? 3 months? 1 year?

[n/t]

Just thought of this.
That vehicle could belong to someone that works at the nursing home and their shift is over.
Hope LE is looking into anyone that works at the nursing home and might have a car like that.
Could even be a vehicle of someone visiting a resident of the nursing home.

Could be, Kinetic. Or it could just be a car driving by. If we look at what's been released in the video, Tori is not struggling, she's not screaming or yelling. She's walking along with this "woman". A woman who by all accounts could be her own mother, sister, aunt, cousin, babysitter.

If I put myself in the driver seat of that car and I was just driving by, I don't think I'd notice a darn thing........


unless......

that car is involved with her abduction.

[n/t]

Ok make sure I'm following you here.
That means the car could've been waiting in the nursing home parking lot or could've been waiting at the end of Walter Street which is a dead end street.
Am I on your page or way off base?
I think someone would've noticed a car waiting at the end of Walter Street though.

Yes. That's what I meant. A get away car. I doubt it though.

[n/t]

OK...so the media overreacted on the list of possible suspects. :rolleyes:

That's not what it was. It was just a list of names that came up through leads and the cops ran it by the parents to see if they knew them.

What is Tara so busy doing? She said she relaxed all day yesterday.

Relaxed??:unsure:

And today during the PC she said she's always busy. She doesn't have time for anything.

Anybody catch the "we" deposited the money. I thought she said she had nothing to do with that? :closedeyes:

[n/t]

The pc is up. It kept cutting in and out on me as usual. Have to watch it again.
The last part of the chat got interesting as the moderator got told off LOL
Why can't these people just go to a library and access everything from there?
Aren't there little coffee shops that also supply computers or do you have to bring your own?

Thanks for the link. Tara wasn't all that talkative today. She said she was tired.

[Nen]

Can someone explain why it's so imperative that Tara have a computer? It makes no sense. Here's a concept, Tara..stop worrying so much what strangers on the Internet say about you and concentrate on finding Tori. She's so smug it sickens me.

[doctor_J]

Anyone know what drugs James G. was convicted of possessing?

Anyone know what the MacDonald and James G. duo do for a living? That is, of course, BEFORE they started having a missing daughter.

[n/t]

Anyone know what drugs James G. was convicted of possessing?

Anyone know what the MacDonald and James G. duo do for a living? That is, of course, BEFORE they started having a missing daughter.

No clue to both your questions. Reporters never asked. Go figure. They haven't even asked the parents to confirm where in fact Tori was supposed to go after school that day.

I wish I could go back 20 years. I should've been an investigative reporter. These guys are doing a lousy job. :thumbdown:

Geeeez....it's like Tara and Rodney had to pull the questions out of them. What's up with that?

[virgogal]

I read that she is a certified Doula and a part time fitness instructor at a local gym. No idea about James though!

[n/t]

Ok I just got through watching it again without the choppiness.
I noticed that too n/t that Tara wasn't talking all that much.
If she's sick I bet that motorcycle ride didn't do her any good either.
Maybe she's feeling under the weather?
There were parts where it sounded like she was going to cry but could be she's straining to use her voice?
:shrug:

Not sure when they took her computer but could she be starting to feel some pressure from LE?

They didn't take Rodney's computer. :sneaky:

[nova1998]

No offense but I think I missed your point. What does that have to do with cops giving the parents of a missing child a list of possible suspects? :unsure:

Sorry there for any confusion. The comment didn't have anything to do with the police giving a list of suspects to the parents - I had just mentioned another embarrassing situation that has happened in Canada with the RCMP and the Vancouver Police Force, just another example of poor decision-making as it's not uncommon.

[n/t]

I read that she is a certified Doula and a part time fitness instructor at a local gym. No idea about James though!

Oh that's right. I heard about the doula thing too and fitness instructor.

It's believed the woman in the video was wearing runners but I can't make anything out in that video except a white coat and what appears to be a black strap across her body like she's carrying a bag....school bag.

[n/t]

Sorry there for any confusion. The comment didn't have anything to do with the police giving a list of suspects to the parents - I had just mentioned another embarrassing situation that has happened in Canada with the RCMP and the Vancouver Police Force, just another example of poor decision-making as it's not uncommon.

Ahhh...ok. Got it! Thanks for the clarification. :smile:

[Orleaner12]

I'm sure the police know by now what the make and model of that car is..looks to me like a Ford Focus type...

[Orleaner12]

Has anyone checked to see if Tara is registered as a "Doula" in Ontario..or in the Woodstock/London area?

[streeter]

I would never have guessed that vehicle was a station wagon.
From the grainy footage, I thought it to be a mini van until now.

Hi, Kinetic. Just to clarify, this vehicle that they are referring to today is not the same one that appears in the video with Tara and the woman. That one is indeed a minivan. The video of this vehicle was taken by the same camera at a different time - sometime after the abduction.

:smile:

[n/t]

Hi, Kinetic. Just to clarify, this vehicle that they are referring to today is not the same one that appears in the video with Tara and the woman. That one is indeed a minivan. The video of this vehicle was taken by the same camera at a different time - sometime after the abduction.

:smile:


I must've missed that part. Can you provide a link, please to where you read this was taken at a differnet time? TIA

[n/t]

Anyone know if this is supposed to be the money shot of the queen on her chariot? The one CTV didn't get on film of her crying?

Tori's Ride Home Bike Rally (http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv187/trendyposter/20090504.jpg)

Where's Daryn? I thought she said he was riding with her. :confused:

[nova1998]

So Daryn IS back at school now (just in reference to my post #79 where I thought he might not have been) - acc. to the mother in the May 1st pc. I just noticed that on Friday's pc as well as today's pc, both times when there were "technical difficulties", the big burly guy has stayed inside, behind the screen door.

[virgogal]

Sorry but I can't see the pic! Is it supposed to accompany the article??

[doctor_J]

No clue to both your questions. Reporters never asked. Go figure. They haven't even asked the parents to confirm where in fact Tori was supposed to go after school that day.

I wish I could go back 20 years. I should've been an investigative reporter. These guys are doing a lousy job. :thumbdown:

Geeeez....it's like Tara and Rodney had to pull the questions out of them. What's up with that?

I wish you could too, n/t. Then we might get the low-down on this wacky story.

[doctor_J]

I read that she is a certified Doula and a part time fitness instructor at a local gym. No idea about James though!

I read that she was an"occasional" fitness instructor?? What the heck does that mean? Do you think they were only "occasional" eaters?/

[Skraps]

If that high school camera caught the suspect walking Tori out of the school and observed the car driving away shortly thereafter... It must have also caught the reverse... the car arriving and the woman walking to the school, shortly before the abduction.

[ttcRider]

If that high school camera caught the suspect walking Tori out of the school and observed the car driving away shortly thereafter... It must have also caught the reverse... the car arriving and the woman walking to the school, shortly before the abduction.

:ohmy: You would hope the LE had thought of that though.
I hadnt, good catch
Welcome to the boards Skraps :seeya:

[streeter]

Not necessarily, Skraps. First of all, the car is going in the same direction as Tori and the woman. So, it's not like woman picks up Tori at school, walks past camera to car, and then car passes camera in opposite direction. The car is going in the same direction as they are, some time after they (and the other pedestrians) are out of view.

I think this car just came along after the abduction.

If Tori and the woman were in the car, then it must have passed the other way across the camera's range first, and then turned around and came back again. In this case, the cops would be withholding the part of the video that had the first pass.

Occam's Razor again -- Tori and woman walk by, then this car drives by after they are out of sight of the camera.

One thing irks me: the police seem to have some surveillance that shows Tori and the woman going into the parking lot of the nursing home. All we see on the video that's made public is Tori and the woman just as they are starting to cross the street. But according to the police, they see Tori and the woman getting across the street and entering the parking lot.

ETA: Link (http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/May2009/04/c8267.html) to the OPP release and the quote:

Investigators have further been able to confirm through surveillance
video that Victoria Stafford and her abductor were last observed walking east
across Fyfe Ave. and crossing into the parking lot of Caressant Care Nursing
and Retirement home.


Why won't they just show us this? :scared:

[nova1998]

Another thing I've been meaning to mention and I never get around to posting about is the educational trust fund.

It's pretty much guaranteed that if a family is middle income and below, the child applying for OSAP (Ontario Student Assistance Program) (https://osap.gov.on.ca/eng/eng_osap_main.html) will get the loan.

This is why the whole educational trust fund thing isn't making sense to me.

I wondered about that too. The trust fund was being quickly set up, from about 2 weeks into this, wasn't it? The only thing I could think of was that it's being set up for the son, or both son/daughter so that he/they will be taken care of should a parent not be around at the time when they are older. And why wouldn't one or both be around? The only reason I could think of was..incarceration. The money isn't being put towards investigative efforts, it's not being used for searches, it's not being used to donate to Child Find or other groups. It's as if the family (Grandmother, relatives, etc) are suspecting what has happened and are preparing for the outcome. That's my initial theory.

[ttcRider]

I would like to see the video footage of the woman walking to the school to pick Tori up.
I think that was where Skraps was going with her/his post upthread??

[doctor_J]

I wish the SC sheriff that interrogated Susan Smith would have about, uh, let's say, 8 days with Tara.

[virgogal]

Apparently, Tara's grandfather lives in that nursing home...where Tori was last seen heading into the parking lot.

[Lovethechild]

Apparently, Tara's grandfather lives in that nursing home...where Tori was last seen heading into the parking lot.

Where did you hear this? That's interesting!

[virgogal]

There is someone on the FB site who works there and confirmed it!

[Hope4Tori]

Apparently, Tara's grandfather lives in that nursing home...where Tori was last seen heading into the parking lot.

Hi Virgogal::smile:

I had posted an obit of Tori's "special Poppa" Robert Winters, late husband of Tori's maternal grandmother and on the "view tributes/messages" page there was a message for the family from someone an RPN at Caressant Care - which stood out because I am aware that it was the building in the backdrop on the video where Tori is being lead away by her abductor. I think I posted it on a thread over the weekend. I don't know if the grandfather was living there prior to his passing - it could be that the RPN was just a friend of the family who happened to leave a note of condolence.

http://www.longworthfuneralhome.com/runtime.php?Keywords=winters&SiteId=177&NavigatorId=27727

In any case, is this the grandfather you mean? Because if it is, sadly he's no longer living.

Hoping to hear great news about Tori soon!:wub:

[whodunnit]

Thanks to Hope4Tori for sharing such thoughtful insights with all of us. Like her, I have reservations about Tara's prospective involvement in Tori's disappearance. Say what you like about Tara's psychological profile (borderline bipolar?) or her lack of parenting skills or even her narcissism, none of these are tantamount to adducing her culpability in a scheme in which her daughter would be harmed. Perhaps Tara's own explanation of what may have happened to Tori is the one that should be further considered. Perhaps Tori was abducted by someone who, in his or her (unbalanced) mind, wanted to protect Tori from her own mother. This, of course, cannot so easily be achieved. I truly fear the worst for this little girl. The repeated admonitions by LE to the neighbourhood farmers that they should be on the lookout seemingly gives credence to my worst fears.

As for the LE and their 'selection' and 'timing' of information that they release to the public (and to Tara and Rodney), I pray that this is all being done with a view to safeguarding Tori if she is still alive.

[virgogal]

HOLY COW!!!! Read #207 of this post on Websleuths! I'd copy and paste it but I'm afraid of the reprecussions!

It does say Tori has a grandfather residing there!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83674&page=9

[virgogal]

I know!!! I thought the same thing! Not very discreet...but quite enlightening!

[virgogal]

I'd say....Tick Tock Tick Tock Tara!

I tried to register on the site so I could see other posts by the same author....but somehow it would not accept my email addy!?

You could try if you want!

[virgogal]

Haha! Funny! We have a better site anyway! lol

[sparky]

I found it interesting that in todays PC Tara said something to the effect of "I will see a man or woman with a young girl with blond hair, and I look closely to make sure it isn't Tori... Huh? Wouldn't you want it to be her? She should have said something like "I see a little blond girl with a man or woman and I look closely hoping it is her". I just found that weird. And as soon as she said it you could tell she kind of realized what she just said.

[sparky]

One more thing. She says she contacted Child Find today.
Wow, you waited almost a WHOLE MONTH before contacting Child Find...maybe you were too busy opening up trust funds at the bank and organizing bands and barbques to get around to contacting Child Find earlier.:thumbdown:

[Lovethechild]

Child Find? Oh,no. Sounds like the A's. Has childfind ever found a child? :confused:

[aproudmom]

I know!!! I thought the same thing! Not very discreet...but quite enlightening!

I must agree

[aproudmom]

Child Find? Oh,no. Sounds like the A's. Has childfind ever found a child? :confused:

:scared:No don't call Kind Finders they have failed to find 1 child to this day I am wondering when they are going to use their brand new boat to find missing kids..yeah right

[aproudmom]

I found it interesting that in todays PC Tara said something to the effect of "I will see a man or woman with a young girl with blond hair, and I look closely to make sure it isn't Tori... Huh? Wouldn't you want it to be her? She should have said something like "I see a little blond girl with a man or woman and I look closely hoping it is her". I just found that weird. And as soon as she said it you could tell she kind of realized what she just said.

she is still having her press conf..ok how much can she really say everyday to keep the press coming...

[n/t]

:scared:No don't call Kind Finders they have failed to find 1 child to this day I am wondering when they are going to use their brand new boat to find missing kids..yeah right

It's not Kid Finders, mom. It's Child Find Canada. :smile:

http://www.childfind.ca/

[n/t]

I found it interesting that in todays PC Tara said something to the effect of "I will see a man or woman with a young girl with blond hair, and I look closely to make sure it isn't Tori... Huh? Wouldn't you want it to be her? She should have said something like "I see a little blond girl with a man or woman and I look closely hoping it is her". I just found that weird. And as soon as she said it you could tell she kind of realized what she just said.

I noticed that too. Another slip up?

[virgogal]

Good morning all!

For those of you who insist on a good night's sleep...haha!

I found this shocker late last night.....check out post #207

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83674&page=9

Someone is being very indiscreet....but facinating!

[M_J]

Finally. I am going to go try to read the whole thread but Thank Goodness, and Finally. I hope the FBI is giving them a heads up on her behavior. she is totally out of line with her "concern" of what the bloggers think of her. Huge red flag. oh oh Tara.

I'll bet she wasn't very talkative. I dont think this child is still alive.
I will be very surprised to find out she is fine. Not with this mother.

my bold.

good morning all! :biggrin:

bugout - Canada doesn't have fbi, we do however have the RCMP.
We also have Canadian Security Intelligence Service - much like what the US would call the CIA .. ours is CSIS.

[M_J]

Another thing I've been meaning to mention and I never get around to posting about is the educational trust fund.

It's pretty much guaranteed that if a family is middle income and below, the child applying for OSAP (Ontario Student Assistance Program) (https://osap.gov.on.ca/eng/eng_osap_main.html) will get the loan.

This is why the whole educational trust fund thing isn't making sense to me.

Hi there Kinetic,

While I completely agree, most families do get OSAP if they are middle imcome and below - however..

OSAP is expensive. Not at first, but if you can't pay it back by the due date, the intrest climbs quicky. If someone takes out, say a $20 000 OSAP loan for a few years of university, their monthly payments for 9.6 years will be $262, not bad. But, the interest monthly on that will be $349.

Not all lower middle class families can even get OSAP. I grew up fairly "poor".. and we couldn't get it. We live in a area where tourism is vital, and my mom worked in a hotel. She had to go on unemployment during the winter months, which meant even less money around the house.

I started the process for OSAP, but then ended up receiving a scholarship. Pheuf, because they wouldn't give me more then $1500. (Because my family made so little money, they didn't give us a lot, because who knows if we'd repay.) <-- At least, that was their thinking.

Everyone's different, and who knows, maybe OSAP is better then I thought?

JMO.

[juliekan]

Hey doctor_J
After scrolling through that websleuths message board, came across these two links.

Goris makes court appearance on charges (http://www.oxfordreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1526564&auth=Sentinel-Review)

(Fourth paragraph down)
Woodstock police make pot bust (http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/03/03/8597911-sun.html)

KP needs to give up his "life of crime"...he's obviously not too good at it. :laugh:

[M_J]

Oh, no. I don't mind at all. :)

Even if you were being rude, which you were not at all...

To Each His Own right? :)

Thanks for allowing me to clear that one up. Like I've mentioned before, I get ahead of myself as I type, and end up being all confudgeled.:w00t:

[M_J]

Nope, got more or less turned down by OSAP first, then applied for the scholarship.

yeah, smart enough to get the scholarship.. not smart enough to try that route BEFORE OSAP. haha

[M_J]

:thumbup:I had no problem viewing it.

[M_J]

Back to Tori here..

Tara planning a pc today?

[M_J]

It has been mentioned as to why the "mysterious benefactor" would give money for a ransome, not for a reward..

The video shown here http://video.lfpress.ca/video/featured/tara-mcdonald-recounts-tale-of-mysterious-offer/21409253001 mentions that the person had the money to get their child back, but the police would not let them give the ransome to the abductor.

This benefactor.. I don't think is going to give money as a reward if Tori comes back on her own. (If she is left somewhere.) I believe that the money would only be used if the family was contacted by the abductor, asking for a ransome.

[girlfriday]

I've been away from the boards for a lil while and saw so many posts that I was concerned I'd missed something important :laugh:

Cheers all! Nice to hear about the scholarships and OSAP happiness and jobs, etc.

Let's hope TORI is brought home soon!

[n/t]

They're not live streaming again today either
:cursing:

:thumbdown:

[M_J]

I wonder how Daryn will feel about using the trust fund money for school, if God Forbid, Tori doesn't come home.

[n/t]

The moderator should leave the chat open. I love to read what others have to say.

[kelloggirl]

HOLY COW!!!! Read #207 of this post on Websleuths! I'd copy and paste it but I'm afraid of the reprecussions!

It does say Tori has a grandfather residing there!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83674&page=9

Poster's cousin works at the nursing home near Tori's school with someone who's brother is on the Oxford police force. Says police considered Tara a suspect from Day 1, she failed her poly, and she has a white coat identical to the woman's in the video. There's a lot more about Tara as well.

I always take things with a huge grain of salt, but there's something about this post, the details, and the way it's written that has a ring of truth about it. Definitely worth reading.

[M_J]

I wonder how Daryn will feel about using the trust fund money for school, if God Forbid, Tori doesn't come home.

yes, I quoted MYSELF. :laugh:

nevermind even Daryn, how will Tori feel using money raised from her abduction towards school.

Wow.. I smell mental problems there.

[M_J]

But with how stupid Woodstock PD has been, do you think they could pull of a "sting" like that? I mean, sure they could probably come up with the money to do it, but the smarts? I don't know.

[M_J]

Are the RCMP & CSIS involved in this case?

[M_J]

ITA Kinetic!!!!!


See my post here about my welfare/ontario works thoughts.. if you already haven't..

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showpost.php?p=13073745&postcount=238

[juliekan]

I don't believe there was any mysterious benefactor. Either a sting or Tortured Tara looking for attention. IMO

I wish the reporters would ask how Tara and family have decided to handle the mysterious benefactor's offer. Hmmmm...surely they've worked out the details for a generous ransom...I know I would have sat down and worked it out with police by now, and reported at my PC and have all the networks and print media running it, have someone make up a poster that looked like money and put all the info with Tori's picture....

Didn't they first meet with the benefactor a week ago last Thursday?? Almost 2 weeks ago??

[M_J]

I don't think RCMP in Ontario would cover this.

RCMP "O" Division Fact Sheet (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/on/about-apropos/fs-fd-eng.htm)

I can't find on that webpage if they cover missing persons.
Was hoping someone could help me find this out?


http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/omc-ned/index-accueil-eng.htm

Tori's profile on their site: http://www.ourmissingchildren.gc.ca/cgi-bin/case.pl?id=699&lang=eng

[M_J]

Says here:
http://www.ourmissingchildren.gc.ca/cgi-bin/case.pl?id=699&lang=eng

Additional Information: Victoria was wearing butter fly earings.
Maybe someone should inform them that there was more info as to what she looked like/was wearing.

[M_J]

AND - ISN'T BUTTERFLY ONE WORD? ... you'd think the RCMP passed a spelling test?

[virgogal]

Live stream has started!!!

[M_J]

ah! whats the link?

[n/t]

Live stream has started!!!

I guess I missed it? :confused:

[n/t]

Was anything new said ?

[virgogal]

No, it came on and then was shut back off...I think it will be re-broadcast later this afternoon.

Sorry for the false alarm!!

[juliekan]

No, it came on and then was shut back off...I think it will be re-broadcast later this afternoon.

Sorry for the false alarm!!

The moderator earlier posted to check back around 4-5pm to see the pc

[juliekan]

I wish the reporters would ask how Tara and family have decided to handle the mysterious benefactor's offer. Hmmmm...surely they've worked out the details for a generous ransom...I know I would have sat down and worked it out with police by now, and reported at my PC and have all the networks and print media running it, have someone make up a poster that looked like money and put all the info with Tori's picture....

Didn't they first meet with the benefactor a week ago last Thursday?? Almost 2 weeks ago??

If nothing else, this makes the whole deal look fishy. (sorry about talking to myself)

[n/t]

Have you seen this video?

http://lfpress.ca/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?p=264207&x=articles&s=societe

[n/t]

In the clearer video, I believe the woman is wearing sunglasses!!!!

Anybody notice the same?

[nova1998]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/CanadaWorld/2009/05/02/9322271-sun.html

The chat room, as part of the LFP live streaming of the press conferences, have apparently been annoying the mother. So, maybe no "technical difficulties" after all.

[doctor_J]

Sunglasses??? On the abductor that looked like MacDonald??? The same woman that wore a puffy white coat like MacDonald's?? Nooooooo!

I believe the police are trying to find this child in the landfill or hoping a farmer will find her or possibly a meter reader? Then they intend to slap some cuffs on MacDonald. JMO.

[Skraps]

Then again - if Tori was my daughter, she wouldn't be missing.

Wow M J, that is a very powerful statement.

It might just be that very parental naivety that predators feed on.
Child predators are very sly, very tricky and very believable. None of us can be with our children 24/7 - even if they are just in their rooms at night sleeping.

I fear every day for my little girl's safety, however, like you I am sure, I would fight to the death anyone who tried to bring harm unto her.

Tara McDonald will have to face herself for the rest of her life for what has happened to Tori. Whether or not she had anything to do with it - but for the fact that she wasn't with her. Someone took her little girl away and she is her mother and was unable/did not stop it.

[juliekan]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/CanadaWorld/2009/05/02/9322271-sun.html

The chat room, as part of the LFP live streaming of the press conferences, have apparently been annoying the mother. So, maybe no "technical difficulties" after all.

Good article!

[Skraps]

Not to worry, Skraps, I did it too. Us bad.
LOL
Sorry M_J!

[nova1998]

Not necessarily, Skraps. First of all, the car is going in the same direction as Tori and the woman. So, it's not like woman picks up Tori at school, walks past camera to car, and then car passes camera in opposite direction. The car is going in the same direction as they are, some time after they (and the other pedestrians) are out of view.

I think this car just came along after the abduction.

If Tori and the woman were in the car, then it must have passed the other way across the camera's range first, and then turned around and came back again. In this case, the cops would be withholding the part of the video that had the first pass.

Occam's Razor again -- Tori and woman walk by, then this car drives by after they are out of sight of the camera.

One thing irks me: the police seem to have some surveillance that shows Tori and the woman going into the parking lot of the nursing home. All we see on the video that's made public is Tori and the woman just as they are starting to cross the street. But according to the police, they see Tori and the woman getting across the street and entering the parking lot.

ETA: Link (http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/May2009/04/c8267.html) to the OPP release and the quote:



Why won't they just show us this? :scared:

If it is true that there are more surveillance tapes that the police have, I wondered why that we aren't being shown them as well.

I found this link on google last night:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=WQO3WRG-mF8C&pg=PA192&lpg=PA192&dq=why+did+police+withhold+some+of+the+video+surve illance+from+the+public&source=bl&ots=hGKBK35yeg&sig=uZPK3iXV-OOfJ4JEacsY59PSyjY&hl=en&ei=vrD_SaGeHZXMMqaRuNoH&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3

It explains why police may withhold all or some of video tape surveillance when interrogating /questioning suspects (and the parents were brought in to view the tape and discuss it prior to it being released) - in hopes that a suspect may lie or implicate themselves until a proper charge can be laid. If they weren't shown other video clips with the hope such a strategy might point to one of them and help build a case (comparing their statements to what the police know happened on tape), then we unfortunately we wouldn't get to see them either.

It could be a possibility as to why the other tapes, such as the nursing home surveillance and from any other different locations if they exist, haven't been made public.

[Orleaner12]

I wonder if the real reason the PC with Tara is not being shown live is that the police want to view them first before releasing them to public in case Tara slips up.. :sneaky:

[n/t]

McDonald misses press conference (http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1554226)

Uh oh

:huh:

...

[n/t]

Could be she didn't make an appearance for the pc today because she's sick?

Maybe but she wasn't very talkative yesterday and she looked upset. I don't know. Maybe the cops taking her computer and not Rodney's may be weighing on her mind?

She has to know by now that people are very suspicious of her....

[juliekan]

Maybe but she wasn't very talkative yesterday and she looked upset. I don't know. Maybe the cops taking her computer and not Rodney's may be weighing on her mind?

She has to know by now that people are very suspicious of her....

Maybe she didn't know what to talk about SINCE they took her computer? :punch: ouch, ok, I deserved it.

[n/t]

Seems like things are falling through the cracks n/t.
Guess we just have to wait and see what the statement says that Rodney reads.
I'm beginning to feel these pcs are more planned and I'm not one for conspiracy theories but I do feel one is going on.

I was just going to ask what Rodney could've said in his statement. I haven't seen his statement posted online yet. What's taking so long? Geeez. :rolleyes:

[n/t]

Maybe she didn't know what to talk about SINCE they took her computer? :punch: ouch, ok, I deserved it.

lol:laugh:

[virgogal]

Oh my!! Tick Tock...Tara!

[virgogal]

I wonder where Tara is????

[Hope4Tori]

Wow M J, that is a very powerful statement.

It might just be that very parental naivety that predators feed on.
Child predators are very sly, very tricky and very believable. None of us can be with our children 24/7 - even if they are just in their rooms at night sleeping.

I fear every day for my little girl's safety, however, like you I am sure, I would fight to the death anyone who tried to bring harm unto her.

Tara McDonald will have to face herself for the rest of her life for what has happened to Tori. Whether or not she had anything to do with it - but for the fact that she wasn't with her. Someone took her little girl away and she is her mother and was unable/did not stop it.


Hey Skraps - I loved your post :thumbsup: - had read it after MJ made clarification so I have no bads to add yours and Lizziegirl's (smile) - but still your message is so true and one we all can use a reminder about! My children are thankfully all grown, but I worry about my grandchildren all, even though I know they have amazing parents (shameless here), because it is something that could happen to even the most conscientious and dedicated parent.

In Toronto back in October 2003 a child, 9 year old Cecelia Zhang, was taken right out of her bed while her parents slept, and they didn't know she was missing until the next school morning, when she wasn't in her bed. Sadly, she was killed by her abductor who was a 21 yr old Chinese visa student studying here in Canada - and was a renter in the parent's house (basement) - was arrested for Cecelia's abduction and murder after her body was found in March of 2004. I remember her poor parents who seemed like the sweetest most loving people and it was heartbreaking and I believe, while it is a rare occurance, and unlikely to happen to most children and their families, it could indeed happen to anyone.

I feel so sorry for anyone whose child would be taken away from them for any reason! You are also right about Tara - and Rodney too IMO - no matter who is held legally responsible in future for Tori's abduction, the parents will have a very big burden of guilt and sorrow for it ever having happened at all to little Tori, even if/when she is returned to her home.

Thanks again - very well said indeed!!!

Hoping Tori is found alive and well this beautiful May afternoon!:wub:

[virgogal]

Awwww...Poor Dad! I'm glad he feels how much support he has behind him though!!:wub:

[juliekan]

Awwww...Poor Dad! I'm glad he feels how much support he has behind him though!!:wub:

awww, my DH calls my DD "baby girl", and she in turned named her dog baby girl....

[streeter]

Poor Rodney. :crying:

So where was Tara? Did Rodney suggest reading a plea to abductors and message to Tori and she refused? :sneaky:

She was very fragile at the presser yesterday. She seemed shaky, and, dare I say, scared. She -- and keep in mind we're talking about TARA here -- seemed like she couldn't wait for it to be over, and kept trying to end it. Rodney seemed to want to keep going, but she just looked like she wanted to get back in that house. I thought maybe she wanted to go lie down if she were "tired" like she said, but then she mentioned they were going to the bank later to deposit the money.

She sorta didn't wanna be there yesterday, and she definitely didn't wanna be there today! I wonder why?

[streeter]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/CanadaWorld/2009/05/02/9322271-sun.html

The chat room, as part of the LFP live streaming of the press conferences, have apparently been annoying the mother. So, maybe no "technical difficulties" after all.


Where does it say that Tara is annoyed by the chat room part of the live streaming?

I know we were speculating a few days ago that maybe Tara is the reason that the plug was pulled, but was this confirmed somewhere?

[nova1998]

Where does it say that Tara is annoyed by the chat room part of the live streaming?

I know we were speculating a few days ago that maybe Tara is the reason that the plug was pulled, but was this confirmed somewhere?

Just scroll down the article - it's paragraph/point # 16.

[streeter]

Ah, did not see that. Thanks. :thumbup:

[doctor_J]

I got the impression of geniune befuddlement from Rodney the other day about the mysterious "benefactor".

Today he broke my heart when he said he broke his promise to protect her. :crying:

[n/t]

Oh lord....I bawled listening to Rodney. :crying:

As for Tara, I don't understand her. I'm trying to be sympathetic but this is just another example of why I keep questioning her behaviour.

This was the moment they should have been united and she should have been there pleading for Tori's safe return.

I just don't get it. Why? Why wasn't she there?

Tori, hope you're safe little angel. :rose:

[n/t]

Poor Rodney. :crying:

So where was Tara? Did Rodney suggest reading a plea to abductors and message to Tori and she refused? :sneaky:

She was very fragile at the presser yesterday. She seemed shaky, and, dare I say, scared. She -- and keep in mind we're talking about TARA here -- seemed like she couldn't wait for it to be over, and kept trying to end it. Rodney seemed to want to keep going, but she just looked like she wanted to get back in that house. I thought maybe she wanted to go lie down if she were "tired" like she said, but then she mentioned they were going to the bank later to deposit the money.

She sorta didn't wanna be there yesterday, and she definitely didn't wanna be there today! I wonder why?



I wonder why too. Remember in one of the other pressers, Rodney addressed Tori and after he was done, it looked like Tara just turned right around and almost stomped into the house? It was so bizarre. Even at that presser, she didn't address Tori. Nothing.:sad:

[virgogal]

I heard she was not sleeping well and had 'bad dreams'....not surprising!

[nova1998]

I just watched the Youtube link right now, of the dad addressing the abductors. I noticed he said something to the effect of drop her off for the sake of her best friend, for her brother..but he never says for the sake of her mother. She was absent from his plea. I'm wondering if he is also indirectly addressing her , with this plea?

[n/t]

In the pc with Const. Laurie Maitland a reporter stated she noticed a camera attached to the wall of the nursing home too but Const. Maitland couldn't comment.
If there is a cam attached to the side of the nursing home, it's more than likely there to watch for the wandering residents.

Thanks for the link to the video, Kinetic.

Are you sensing they really don't know what happened to Tori? It sounds like they're just running around in circles. I could be wrong and maybe they have a stragey and the pieces are just not fitting in for us just yet. They continue to canvass the highschool. Why? It's been a month. Isn't it time to move on?

*sigh* I'm getting frustrated. Over 2000 leads and no sign of Tori. :sad:

[n/t]

I just watched the Youtube link right now, of the dad addressing the abductors. I noticed he said something to the effect of drop her off for the sake of her best friend, for her brother..but he never says for the sake of her mother. She was absent from his plea. I'm wondering if he is also indirectly addressing her , with this plea?

He also didn't say to drop her off in a field where nobody could see them. That statement by Tara still haunts me.

[nova1998]

He also didn't say to drop her off in a field where nobody could see them. That statement by Tara still haunts me.

That line didn't bother me as much as her pronoun slip halfway through her "plea". It made me think she was not actually talking to anyone.

[n/t]

You're welcome n/t
I have to keep reminding myself to put the links to the vids in the link sticky thread but I'm catching on :wink:

It's weird because I do get a sense LE doesn't know what happened but then I get this feeling they have a method to the madness.
I want to believe LE does have a strategy because someone has to be in control of this show.
Although, I also think that all of us have better hunches than LE at this point!!!!!!

I'm frustrated too n/t, so many tips and it seems LE still can't figure anything out and it is saddening.
I don't know :shrug:


What's very depressing is they have nothing except that video of the alleged abduction. Their biggest mistake is not clearing the family first. They just now took Tara's computer. This should've been done within the same week. They should take Rodney's computer too. Just to rule them out.

Polygraphs
Check the homes
Computers
Cellphones
Interviews
Etc

At least this way, they would know which way they're headed. Whether this was a family abduction or stranger abduction. Right now, it seems like they're focusing on everything and nothing.

[Hope4Tori]

What's very depressing is they have nothing except that video of the alleged abduction. Their biggest mistake is not clearing the family first. They just now took Tara's computer. This should've been done within the same week. They should take Rodney's computer too. Just to rule them out.

Polygraphs
Check the homes
Computers
Cellphones
Interviews
Etc

At least this way, they would know which way they're headed. Whether this was a family abduction or stranger abduction. Right now, it seems like they're focusing on everything and nothing.

Hey n/t - :thumbsup: You are reading my mind! :scared: - and ITA - and have I mentioned the dog? Okay seriously I can't drop that bone!

As to your post, if I may add the Nanna's computer (if she has one) because Tori spent a lot of time with her and she mentioned (Globe & Mail article a couple of days ago and link already posted) how much time Tori spent glued to the computer - and I cannot say enough about phone and cell phones/records!!

Are we not to presume that LE would do these things naturally given the circumstance?? Are we are the only smart people "investigating" Tori's abduction? If so, that is a very scary thought!:scared There must be much more LE is doing and has done than we are aware, because if not, that would actually be criminal, IMO.

Wishing and hoping for Tori's safe homecoming!:wub:

[Hope4Tori]

ITA n/t
What bothers me and maybe I'm not entitled to know, maybe the general public isn't entitled to know any of this but that list you just typed up, I admit it would be nice to know if LE has done those things that you've listed n/t.

Of all the pcs I've watched, I don't recall the press asking LE about any of the things you've listed and it's such a simple yes or no answer. I don't want details but a yes or no would do fine if a reporter asked LE if they've looked into those things.

Ok, want to say you're welcome to H4T too!!!!

Hey Kinetic - I see that you're reading my mind too!:D

No, none of us are entitled to any info, but it sure would make our moonlighting as detectives a lot easier - and as n/t has stated she would have made (and could make, as could we all, IMO) a better investigative reporter than what we have seen from our press!

For whatever reason we aren't getting all the information, if the silence serves to increase Tori's chances of being found alive and well :wub:it will have been well worth our collective frustration in the end!

Hoping for Tori's sake that LE and the press have not and will not completely let her down - it's so hard to be confident, but I do hope!:smile:

[virgogal]

In my line of work (which is TOTALLY above board, by the way!!) I frequently work with the Toronto Police.

When they have all their I's dotted and T's crossed....they will POUNCE!

I really do believe that this is why we are only getting 'snippets' of information!

[M_J]

LOL
Sorry M_J!


Sorry all. I think I seem to have made some of you mad/upset with what I first said. Maybe I should delete that post, so only the the one that was clarified is there?? I dunno!! I hope no one is upset.. I should have been more clear with what I said..

Sorry.:crying::confused::huh:

[Hope4Tori]

In my line of work (which is TOTALLY above board, by the way!!) I frequently work with the Toronto Police.

When they have all their I's dotted and T's crossed....they will POUNCE!

I really do believe that this is why we are only getting 'snippets' of information!

Hey Virgogal: :smile:

I have to believe you are right - and in any case we have no choice about what information we get, when we get it or from whom we get it.

And here's to Toronto's finest from this T.O. gal - nice connection to have Virgogal :thumbsup: and wish they could be involved in Tori's case!!

I hope the impending POUNCE comes in time for Tori - the OPP have a great reputation too, and I so hope they live up to it for Tori and her families' sakes!!

Hoping for Tori's safe return home tonight!:wub:

[virgogal]

Thanks H4T!!

The info I have recieved is that in 99% of cases (home invasions, abduction, shootings etc....) either drugs or gangs are involved.

If you stay away from those factions...you will almost certainly be spared. (Of course there is that tiny 1% of unfortunate cases....but they are very rare)

Just what I have been told.....

[streeter]

In my line of work (which is TOTALLY above board, by the way!!) I frequently work with the Toronto Police.

When they have all their I's dotted and T's crossed....they will POUNCE!

I really do believe that this is why we are only getting 'snippets' of information!

ITA Virgogal! I was very encouraged when we heard that Tara's former home was searched by LE and that they did remove some evidence. We didn't hear that from the cops, but from the landlady, so it's something the cops did without announcing that they had done it. This tells me that there is lots more that they're doing that they haven't talked about publicly.

I am still of the mind that the OPP is hampered somewhat by an inadequate investigation in the first week by a police force that just didn't have the skills to deal with something this big. I think they've probably had to backtrack and in some respects accept that some evidence would be inadmissable in court due to the way it was (mis)handled, and now they have to make up for that.

[Hope4Tori]

Sorry all. I think I seem to have made some of you mad/upset with what I first said. Maybe I should delete that post, so only the the one that was clarified is there?? I dunno!! I hope no one is upset.. I should have been more clear with what I said..

Sorry.:crying::confused::huh:

OMG MJ - NO! NO! NO! Not at all - and I am so sorry if my response to Skraps offended or upset you or gave you the impression that I or anyone here is mad/upset because that was not my intention!!

As I said to Skraps - I had already saw your clarification -and I was making light of Skraps and Lizziegirl's "bads" - and I just thought that Skraps made a good point worth noting because we all - me maybe more than many - sometimes get caught up in the feeling that our kids could never be in the situation Tori is now in because we imagine ourselves to be so protective and cannot relate to how someone like Tara seems to have been careless with Tori's supervision, IMO.

Anyway, as you know I'm terribly bad at getting to my point quickly, but I do get there - and what I'm trying to say is that even without clarifying what you first said or meant - those feelings are natural to many of us - yet what I saw was an opportunity to say we all need to check any illusions about our own perceived or actual higher standards as parents, because sometimes, not always, that loving concern is not enough to protect our children from harm.

I hope my comments bring understanding and don't make you feel worse!

As we have all seen here it is sometimes hard to accurately interpret context when we have only written words to rely on. And in any case, whatever your opinions are - whether everyone agrees or it causes discussion - it's all good and unless someone is being hateful, IMO, no one should be censured for expressing themselves!!

Please let me know if you understand because if I'm not doing a good job of explaining myself - I will try again (and I know with the length of my usual posts you may perceive that as a threat (kidding) - but it's just my invitation to make peace and restore trust between us! I feel terrible if anything I may have said caused you to feel awkward!

[streeter]

I think if we put streeter and n/t in a room tonight, with access to every piece of information, they'd have it solved by tomorrow!!!!


No way! We'd be all ----> :beer: :D

Thanks for the link to the Toronto Star story about the graphics expert. Unfortunately, it sounds like this "expert" is an IT guy in Vancouver who has emailed his opinion to the Star, and they put it front and centre. I wish they would do that with other readers, because it could bias some. There are folks who have written in the comment section that the vehicle looks like a Saturn from the late 90's, and they posted a picture of one, and WOW. It was right on!

I didn't agree with the Dodge Journey opinion because it's more of an SUV (it's a crossover, actually) and the vehicle in question looks like a station wagon sedan. Also the tail lights are too high up from the fender, where as on the Saturn car, they are right on.

I'll try to find that car and post the links.

Okay, here's the link to the Saturn SW1 wagon (http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=119540859&img=http%3A%2F%2Fimg1.classistatic.com%2Fcps%2Fl%2 Fkj%2F09%2F4%2F8%2F573%2Fr2%2F417189l_18.jpeg) that several people insist is the right vehicle. Compare this to the car in the video and the Dodge Journey, both of which are pictured on the Toronto Star page that Kinetic posted above. (http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/629037)

[Hope4Tori]

Thanks H4T!!

The info I have recieved is that in 99% of cases (home invasions, abduction, shootings etc....) either drugs or gangs are involved.

If you stay away from those factions...you will almost certainly be spared. (Of course there is that tiny 1% of unfortunate cases....but they are very rare)

Just what I have been told.....

Hey Virgogal - :smile:ITA - I am pretty much a loner lucky to be living in a nice quiet and safe area of the city - (I love T.O.!) - my gang are my kids/grandkids/friends/extended family/neighbours/ don't know any druggies/ don't know anyone who has a gun - or anyone who has seen a gun / I am friendly and feel safe for the most part in my life - BUT - having said that - those random innocent victims do make me feel very grateful for my family and me having been spared so far - let's hope the odds are always on our side - of course I extend that wish to everyone here!

Wishing the odds are in Tori's favour tonight and always!:wub:

[virgogal]

Hey H4T :smile:

What part of the city are you in? We have a nice, quiet life too! The only people I have known who owned guns were American friends...I too know no one here who does...(well, except the officers I meet with!) It is always a bit odd to see on their hip!

I hope my little 'tip' reassures most people here that THEY are not at much risk at all...

I firmly believe MOST people (though quirky) are very good at heart!

[Hope4Tori]

Hi H4T snipped because I couldn't post without deleting wave!
I think if we put streeter and n/t in a room tonight, with access to every piece of information, they'd have it solved by tomorrow!!!!
No pressure there at all :lol:

I have some questions though.
Isn't there some kind of computer program that would allow LE to type in certain dimensions (they have the wheelbase) of the station wagon?

Also wondering if LE has asked Tara or Rodney if they know anyone that drives this type of car.

In addition, if this station wagon was used as the get away car according to one theory on here, I hope LE would also look at rental places.

p.s. makes me so sad that we can't even just get a tiny yes or no :sad:

Hey Kinetic - Yes, you're so right and how did I overlook Streeter? - and so many other posters here who SIMPLY (Occam theory sp? credit to Streeter if memory serves me right, but I am open always to correction) amaze me with their insights, creativity, intelligence, caring and - hello ... a shared quality of extreme patience in the face of such an information-based-on-facts void!! Yes, I'd gladly split a tiny yes or no with you anyday, Kinetic!

As to the car - I cannot imagine that the police cannot identify it or at least narrow it down - don't car manufacturers all have special paint colours for their particular models? Didn't you (or maybe someone else suggest it could be a Ford Focus? If so, for instance, couldn't the police run down the plates on all those models in the Woodstock area and do a search/interviews with those owners? Could there really be thousands of them in the area?

The police are, by their own admission focusing their search for Tori locally, and I think that the car was driven by someone local because it was on a side street - and it may not be the car of just a witness, but the abductor's accomplice, and as I don't want to think that Tori was taken out of town, and my gut tells me she is still in Woodstock - perhaps much closer than we imagine - it makes sense to me because if she was taken by someone she knew or knew of - it would make sense that they also lived nearby and knew the neighbourhood and how Tori had just moved - and maybe the dog is in the picture as a lure -and that person would keep them in their own house - maybe I think this because I read on an American police site (I would have to go back and dig up the link) that child abductors often keep their victims in their own house - unless the person was from out of town as some here have suggested because the area is in close proximity to the 401.

OMG - That has to be my least logical explanation to date - but I really think Tori was kept close to home and I think the police either know who drives that car or at least they could find out, IMO. I cannot believe that the Woodstock police stopped the initial ground search in the area so quickly - Easter weekend wasn't it called off?- and they didn't resume the active search until OPP was called into "oversee" the case.

Sorry if you cannot follow anything I've said - I sure didn't make it easy for you tonight, Kinetic!

Hoping Tori is found safe and sound and returned to her home now!:wub:

[Amy]

I wonder why too. Remember in one of the other pressers, Rodney addressed Tori and after he was done, it looked like Tara just turned right around and almost stomped into the house? It was so bizarre. Even at that presser, she didn't address Tori. Nothing.:sad:

Maybe she doesn't do so well when the focus is on "Tori is missing and we need to find her?" She seemed quite comfortable in the ones I saw where she seemed to be in charge of how the presser would go, and had pics and things of Tori's she could share (and relate to herself in the process.

[Amy]

In my line of work (which is TOTALLY above board, by the way!!) I frequently work with the Toronto Police.

When they have all their I's dotted and T's crossed....they will POUNCE!

I really do believe that this is why we are only getting 'snippets' of information!

I do think that is the way police departments should go. Get the real down skinny before putting out info that might impede their investigation, or alert a perp so s/he can run.

In about every case I have followed, all the arm chair detectives have some really good ideas about what about searching here? or what about searching that? Have they talked to so-and-so. I gotta believe that most police departments have already done much of what the posters advise. And, possibly there is some LE who might even follow the message boards to the extent that they might investigate in some manner they might not have tho't of, but will now, thanks to a poster on a message board. IMO

[virgogal]

From another site:



a question about TM's boyfriend... is he local? has he always been "around"? Has he ever gone by a different name or a nickname? Has he ever done any time? Is he, by any chance, originally from out west?

The only think I know for sure is that he sometimes used the last name Schott.


Yes, it is a matter of record that he was arrested and went to prison along with 16 other people in a big biker-related drug bust the police carried out in Ontario in 2004. We have speculated here that, considering he must not have done much time for that (Tara says she has been "dating" him for 3 years, which means he would have been in the slammer less than 2 years), he might have cut a deal with the prosecutors and turned "snitch" on his brethren; and that Tori's disappearance might be related to some kind of "pay-back"....

I don't know where he ever lived...but as for his last name, a few months ago T went from relationship to single and people were wondering at things not working out with Schott -- and someone (mind you - literally someone) called him that. I wouldn't have assumed it from that persons info, but along with the postings on T's status....



hmmmmm...INTERESTING!!!

[Amy]

No way! We'd be all ----> :beer: :D

Thanks for the link to the Toronto Star story about the graphics expert. Unfortunately, it sounds like this "expert" is an IT guy in Vancouver who has emailed his opinion to the Star, and they put it front and centre. I wish they would do that with other readers, because it could bias some. There are folks who have written in the comment section that the vehicle looks like a Saturn from the late 90's, and they posted a picture of one, and WOW. It was right on!

I didn't agree with the Dodge Journey opinion because it's more of an SUV (it's a crossover, actually) and the vehicle in question looks like a station wagon sedan. Also the tail lights are too high up from the fender, where as on the Saturn car, they are right on.

I'll try to find that car and post the links.

Okay, here's the link to the Saturn SW1 wagon (http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=119540859&img=http%3A%2F%2Fimg1.classistatic.com%2Fcps%2Fl%2 Fkj%2F09%2F4%2F8%2F573%2Fr2%2F417189l_18.jpeg) that several people insist is the right vehicle. Compare this to the car in the video and the Dodge Journey, both of which are pictured on the Toronto Star page that Kinetic posted above. (http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/629037)

I think it looks more like the Saturn, too. When I saw the pic of the journey, IMO, it was a tad bit boxier than the car in the video (the view on the left, anyway.) The nose of the Journey seemed a bit short, and the back a little "different"--boxy. The car in the video looks more "sleek." Gently sloping instead of boxy. Hard to describe, but seeing the Saturn, it looks a lot more correct. IMO

[Hope4Tori]

Hey H4T :smile:

What part of the city are you in? We have a nice, quiet life too! The only people I have known who owned guns were American friends...I too know no one here who does...(well, except the officers I meet with!) It is always a bit odd to see on their hip!

I hope my little 'tip' reassures most people here that THEY are not at much risk at all...

I firmly believe MOST people (though quirky) are very good at heart!

Hey Virgogal - Thanks for your post friend!:smile:

ITA agree and as I look for the best in others, happily most times I am not disappointed.

G'night and sweet dreams . . .

Hoping Tori will be found tonight and returned safely while we sleep!:wub:

[virgogal]

Ditto H4T!

Sleep tight! May tomorrow bring GOOD news! :sleep:

[Hope4Tori]

[QUOTE=Kinetic;13076594]Ok this is my last post for tonight for sure. I think?
No need for apologies H4T!!!
I love reading your posts as they're always so well written and I think I've been following you alright even though the NHL playoffs have been keeping me up late :lol:
With a lack of sleep I don't comprehend anything

G'nite all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
snipped for emphasis and posting ability - SLEEP!!!!!!!!QUOTE]

Hey Kinetic - thanks for everything you say and how you say it!!!! - and as for keeping up with my convoluted posts even during hockey playoffs?? - obviously you are a brilliant multitasker!:thumbsup:

Get some sleep - you must be posted out for sure!!

Thinking of Tori and hoping for good news when we awake!:wub:

[Hope4Tori]

Ok, for real, this will be my last post (yeah right :lol:)
Before logging off I thought I'd google the names James Schott and James Goris and came across this obit

2005-07-07 - Kenneth Schott of Woodstock (http://cgi.bowesonline.com/pedro.php?id=306&x=obituaries_result&keyword=wallace&order_by=dateofdeath&pos=25&xid=20611#20611)

SCHOTT — Kenneth James Schott of Woodstock, passed away at Princess Margaret Hospital, Toronto on Thursday, July 7, 2005 in his 52nd year. Beloved husband of Bernice (Speers) Schott. Survived by 3 sons and 3 step-daughters. Cherished son of Albert and Violet Schott of Wycombe. Dear brother of Stan and wife Dianne, Paul and wife Dorothy both of Tillsonburg, Gerald and wife Pat of Delhi, Chris Propper and husband Randy of Clear Creek, Dianne Castonguay and husband Roger of Rockton, Barbara Wallace and husband Ian of Cambridge, Betty Cail and husband Bryan of Langton, and Darlene Goris and husband Dave of Woodstock, and Cindy Silverthorn and husband Don of Glen Meyer. Also survived by several grandchildren, nieces, nephews, aunts, uncles, as well as cousins. Predeceased by his sister Charlotte Mathews (1996). Cremation will take place. The Memorial Visitation for Ken will be held on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 from 2-4 & 7-9 p.m. at Ostrander’s Funeral Home, 43, Bidwell St., Thursday, July 14, 2005 at 1:00 p.m. with Rev. Stan Stanhope officiating. Interment of ashes will take place at a later date in the Cultus Cemetery. If desired, memorial donations may be made to the Princess Margaret Hospital or the Sick Children’s Hospital (Toronto) (payable by cheque only). Personal condolences may be sent to www.ostranderfuneralhome.com.

Posted on 2005-07-11

OMG you guys - I can't even begin to analyze this tonight - just to confirm that Darlene Goris is James Goris' mom.

I'll catch up with ya'll in the morn . . . good luck all the remaining nightowls!

Really really, you too Kinetic - get some much deserved sleep!!!!

Holding on to Hope for Tori!:wub:

[virgogal]

Yep looks that way! Darlene is probably James' Mum....

Who here is a genealogy expert!?? It sounds like Tara has a VERY convoluted family tree that we are ALL curious about!!

Anyone have any contacts or skills in that arena??

[virgogal]

Me too Bugout!! I have EXACTLY the same thoughts!

[virgogal]

Surely she has internet access even without her own computer! She could use a friends...

I think one of us should 'add' ourselves as a 'friend' to see what she is posting!

Is that too creepy???:blushing:

[Hope4Tori]

Just popping in to check on today's news. Sad to see no resolution no answers. I wonder if LE will find that this mother has orchestrated this child's abduction for financial gain. If ever a case fit the criteria for it in my mind, it's this one. This mother has an agenda. To me that is clear.
Could that be an older Escort wagon, the teal ones that we see everywhere? I dont know car colors or too much about makes and models but that color is the color used by Ford in their Escorts.
MJ are you doing some enhancing on the video and photos for us in this case? :D You are the best at it.

Tara spends a lot of time online, I think her absence say's one thing to me: She is afraid. Gig is about up.

I was hoping she would produce this child by now if she was still alive.

She just hasn't generated the amount of money she thought she would. That was clear from the motorcycle ride and her comments afterwards. Disappointed, was that what she said regarding the amount? How callous and cold. Reminds me so much of someone else. In London.

It's so hard to have Canadian Law and the silence factor, in the Pinkerton case it was deafening. Was that his name, the pig farmer? That was when I first read about the laws in Canada and how LE remains usually quite silent in their cases. Whether this is a good thing or not I'm still not sure. I just hope that LE is pulling out all the stops in this case, and we are just not privvy to that information.

I could not believe she was more worried about not having INTERNET access, over talking about her child. Another quite narcissistic mother we have here.
Grrrrr. I wonder what we would see if her interrogations were released to the public. If she has thin skin about what is said online about her, just think when we find out the details of her interrogations by Law Enforcement. I shudder to think it. The mother in this case is the number one suspect, to me.

Hey Bugout - :smile:

I had just logged out and made the big mistake of peeking back in and I read you post and of course I was once again hooked as it made me think and then . . . I wonder if Tara does know where Tori is and by whom she was taken? - but not involved in setting it up? I wonder, if you are right about the money angle, as one naturally concludes, because she has given us the impression by her words and actions that she is obsessively interested in that aspect of Tori's case, IMO. Could someone have taken Tori for ransom and perhaps she has not shared this information with police? Perhaps it is someone - a person she knows as an enemy? - or could be blackmailing he as well for some reason? but someone she thinks will not harm Tori if she doesn't talk and only if the ransom can be collected, (by way of donations because if this could be true what other choice would she have insofar as raising money) and paid?

I don't know what I'm saying 'cause I'm so tired it's not funny - but it could be that someone has Tara over a barrel and she doesn't know how to handle the situation and her odd behaviors could be due to extreme stress in trying to raise however much ransom money was demanded by the abductor to buy Tori's safety and ultimate release, just a theory, but is it plausible? In this theory, say Tara knows she is being watched from a distance so to speak and perhaps she feels she cannot trust the police to rescue Tori if she told them the truth and therefore she would be left walking on eggshells as she fears that Tori may be harmed or even killed is she doesn't do as the abductors/extortionist command her to do. And when I say they - it could be one person, more or a gang - all of the above is just a late night theory.

Your thoughts - and I gather you have no time for Tara from what you and everybody else have witnessed - but putting that aside for a moment - could anything I'm saying possibly make sense? I am interested in any and all critique of my theory.

Thanks for your post Bugout - now goodnight and sweet dreams!

Hoping the answers will be found that will bring Tori safely home!:wub:

[Amy]

Hey Bugout - :smile:

I had just logged out and made the big mistake of peeking back in and I read you post and of course I was once again hooked as it made me think and then . . . I wonder if Tara does know where Tori is and by whom she was taken? - but not involved in setting it up? I wonder, if you are right about the money angle, as one naturally concludes, because she has given us the impression by her words and actions that she is obsessively interested in that aspect of Tori's case, IMO. Could someone have taken Tori for ransom and perhaps she has not shared this information with police? Perhaps it is someone - a person she knows as an enemy? - or could be blackmailing he as well for some reason? but someone she thinks will not harm Tori if she doesn't talk and only if the ransom can be collected, (by way of donations because if this could be true what other choice would she have insofar as raising money) and paid?

I don't know what I'm saying 'cause I'm so tired it's not funny - but it could be that someone has Tara over a barrel and she doesn't know how to handle the situation and her odd behaviors could be due to extreme stress in trying to raise however much ransom money was demanded by the abductor to buy Tori's safety and ultimate release, just a theory, but is it plausible? In this theory, say Tara knows she is being watched from a distance so to speak and perhaps she feels she cannot trust the police to rescue Tori if she told them the truth and therefore she would be left walking on eggshells as she fears that Tori may be harmed or even killed is she doesn't do as the abductors/extortionist command her to do. And when I say they - it could be one person, more or a gang - all of the above is just a late night theory.

Your thoughts - and I gather you have no time for Tara from what you and everybody else have witnessed - but putting that aside for a moment - could anything I'm saying possibly make sense? I am interested in any and all critique of my theory.

Thanks for your post Bugout - now goodnight and sweet dreams!

Hoping the answers will be found that will bring Tori safely home!:wub:

But, according to Tara, there is a wealthy benefactor who is willing to put up any ransom that is asked for. Since Tara made this public, that would be a signal to anyone requesting ransom that the moneys are available. (Of course, you have to believe the secret limo ride to believe there is an anonymous benefactor in the picture. It's kind of a hard story to swallow, but heck, it might just be true.)

[Hope4Tori]

But, according to Tara, there is a wealthy benefactor who is willing to put up any ransom that is asked for. Since Tara made this public, that would be a signal to anyone requesting ransom that the moneys are available. (Of course, you have to believe the secret limo ride to believe there is an anonymous benefactor in the picture. It's kind of a hard story to swallow, but heck, it might just be true.)

Hey Amy - :smile:my final post before the clock strikes one! Thanks so much for your reply - LOL - I knew I had forgotten something important - the moneybags benefactor!! Oh well, as I have said here before and I'll say it again, the truth can be stranger than fiction (of course I don't attribute that old saying to me) - if that part of the story turned out to be true, I mean the benefactor, I would eat many of my words after I recovered from from shock, but it merely pokes another hole in my theory I think - (tomorrow after rest I will analyze it myself to see what I was thinking:) - in any case, the hole I refer to as I fall off to sleep is why would Tara tell the public about the donor at a pc when the police would have to then get involved??

Thanks for posting your assessment and for keeping an open mind, Amy and I wish you, and all those who hope for Tori's safe return home, a goodnight!:smile:

[virgogal]

I definitely believe that Tara may be being watched from a distance...either from the abductor/s or the police...and she is starting to 'feel' it.

I believe she is beginning to decomposate....(break down)

Just my opinion!

[virgogal]

I might be very wrong....but it crossed my mind that Tori may be being held downtown and the whole Limo story was an excuse to go spend some time with her????

Hence the whole 'benefactor' story...and a way to appease Victoria???

[streeter]

I'm a little freaked that Tara ducked out of the media spotlight today because she was haunted by "bad dreams" last night.

I dreamt of Tori last night, too.

I was trying to save her. We were on a bus to a little town north of me, or north of her, and she was at the front of the bus with her captors. It was a family, and they were trying to make it seem like Tori was one of them. So me and others on the bus were trying to secretly contact the police. We almost had them, but the bus stopped and everyone got out and we came up with some excuse to make everyone wait around, but the captors got scared and took off with Tori in the car.

I wanted so bad to follow, but I didn't have my car. It was so frustrating. I woke up feeling helpless and useless. :(

Has anyone else been dreaming about Tori?

[doctor_J]

People, remember what little we do know about that the OPP are doing. It has been reported they are searching the landfill. They released that video and they are searching the landfill. They know it's a horrible hoax.

This woman became obsessed with the notoriety of cases like Casey Anthony. She thought she could pull it off, soaking up sympathy and donations. We've seen at least 2 other women do this. A woman in S. Florida claimed a nanny took her baby and she did not even have a baby. Another woman in Ca., Stacy Barker, killed her 18 mo. old and claimed the child had been abducted. I think it's an extreme form of Münchhausen by proxy. The grandmother knows.

My big question. Is anyone else involved? I doubt it.

[Lovethechild]

Just popping in to see what's new. I have a feeling the noose is tightening around Tara as we speak.

[moonlite]

Just popping in to check on today's news. Sad to see no resolution no answers. I wonder if LE will find that this mother has orchestrated this child's abduction for financial gain. If ever a case fit the criteria for it in my mind, it's this one. This mother has an agenda. To me that is clear.
Could that be an older Escort wagon, the teal ones that we see everywhere? I dont know car colors or too much about makes and models but that color is the color used by Ford in their Escorts.
MJ are you doing some enhancing on the video and photos for us in this case? :D You are the best at it.

Tara spends a lot of time online, I think her absence say's one thing to me: She is afraid. Gig is about up.

I was hoping she would produce this child by now if she was still alive.

She just hasn't generated the amount of money she thought she would. That was clear from the motorcycle ride and her comments afterwards. Disappointed, was that what she said regarding the amount? How callous and cold. Reminds me so much of someone else. In London.

It's so hard to have Canadian Law and the silence factor, in the Pinkerton case it was deafening. Was that his name, the pig farmer? That was when I first read about the laws in Canada and how LE remains usually quite silent in their cases. Whether this is a good thing or not I'm still not sure. I just hope that LE is pulling out all the stops in this case, and we are just not privvy to that information.

I could not believe she was more worried about not having INTERNET access, over talking about her child. Another quite narcissistic mother we have here.
Grrrrr. I wonder what we would see if her interrogations were released to the public. If she has thin skin about what is said online about her, just think when we find out the details of her interrogations by Law Enforcement. I shudder to think it. The mother in this case is the number one suspect, to me.

Greetings'
Bugout'

I agree with you!!!

Moonlite

[moonlite]

Just popping in to check on today's news. Sad to see no resolution no answers. I wonder if LE will find that this mother has orchestrated this child's abduction for financial gain. If ever a case fit the criteria for it in my mind, it's this one. This mother has an agenda. To me that is clear.
Could that be an older Escort wagon, the teal ones that we see everywhere? I dont know car colors or too much about makes and models but that color is the color used by Ford in their Escorts.
MJ are you doing some enhancing on the video and photos for us in this case? :D You are the best at it.

Tara spends a lot of time online, I think her absence say's one thing to me: She is afraid. Gig is about up.

I was hoping she would produce this child by now if she was still alive.

She just hasn't generated the amount of money she thought she would. That was clear from the motorcycle ride and her comments afterwards. Disappointed, was that what she said regarding the amount? How callous and cold. Reminds me so much of someone else. In London.

It's so hard to have Canadian Law and the silence factor, in the Pinkerton case it was deafening. Was that his name, the pig farmer? That was when I first read about the laws in Canada and how LE remains usually quite silent in their cases. Whether this is a good thing or not I'm still not sure. I just hope that LE is pulling out all the stops in this case, and we are just not privvy to that information.

I could not believe she was more worried about not having INTERNET access, over talking about her child. Another quite narcissistic mother we have here.
Grrrrr. I wonder what we would see if her interrogations were released to the public. If she has thin skin about what is said online about her, just think when we find out the details of her interrogations by Law Enforcement. I shudder to think it. The mother in this case is the number one suspect, to me.

Greetings'
Bugout"

Maybe' just maybe' that is the problem...The police really need to be talking and interrogating Tara. At this point' it sure would not hurt!!! I think Tara, needs to finish or complete her lye detector tests. I don't think I understand why the police have not done this yet?

Moonlite

[n/t]

No way! We'd be all ----> :D

Thanks for the link to the Toronto Star story about the graphics expert. Unfortunately, it sounds like this "expert" is an IT guy in Vancouver who has emailed his opinion to the Star, and they put it front and centre. I wish they would do that with other readers, because it could bias some. There are folks who have written in the comment section that the vehicle looks like a Saturn from the late 90's, and they posted a picture of one, and WOW. It was right on!

I didn't agree with the Dodge Journey opinion because it's more of an SUV (it's a crossover, actually) and the vehicle in question looks like a station wagon sedan. Also the tail lights are too high up from the fender, where as on the Saturn car, they are right on.

I'll try to find that car and post the links.

Okay, here's the link to the Saturn SW1 wagon (http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=119540859&img=http%3A%2F%2Fimg1.classistatic.com%2Fcps%2Fl%2 Fkj%2F09%2F4%2F8%2F573%2Fr2%2F417189l_18.jpeg) that several people insist is the right vehicle. Compare this to the car in the video and the Dodge Journey, both of which are pictured on the Toronto Star page that Kinetic posted above. (http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/629037)


I agree. It looks more like the saturn. Also, one media report when they first released the video described it as a "station wagon". Of course, the police claim they don't know which I find very bizarre. I think they would know by now whether it was a van or station wagon.

Woodstock has a population of approximately 35,000 people. How long would it take to check out all car registeries? Heck, they can sort by colour...even if it's not the exact colour. They can rule out white, black or red. :unsure:

Maybe they should give the registry to us and we'll sift through it. :biggrin:

I stole your beer. We're only allowed 4 images per post. LOL

[M_J]

Surely she has internet access even without her own computer! She could use a friends...

I think one of us should 'add' ourselves as a 'friend' to see what she is posting!

Is that too creepy???:blushing:

I added her as a friend I think the second day after Tori was missing.

Not creepy, but.. yeahh.. okay maybe a little. :tongueside: I've often wondered what I would do if she was found guilty of anything involving Tori. Could I even bring myself to her page to remove her as a friend?

If you'd like virgogal, and others, I can update you daily if there is anything new on her profile?

She's had about 10 people write on her wall since saying she will be computer-less, they all pretty much say the same thing.. that they are there for her, etc.

[M_J]

I might be very wrong....but it crossed my mind that Tori may be being held downtown and the whole Limo story was an excuse to go spend some time with her????

Hence the whole 'benefactor' story...and a way to appease Victoria???

I've actually wondered if Tori was up there in the hotel room. Not like anyone else would know?.. Everyone else stayed downstairs.

[M_J]

OMG MJ - NO! NO! NO! Not at all - and I am so sorry if my response to Skraps offended or upset you or gave you the impression that I or anyone here is mad/upset because that was not my intention!!

As I said to Skraps - I had already saw your clarification -and I was making light of Skraps and Lizziegirl's "bads" - and I just thought that Skraps made a good point worth noting because we all - me maybe more than many - sometimes get caught up in the feeling that our kids could never be in the situation Tori is now in because we imagine ourselves to be so protective and cannot relate to how someone like Tara seems to have been careless with Tori's supervision, IMO



Snipped.. for space. :)

Thanks H4T. I just thought maybe some people were upset with me?!? Glad to see it was a missunderstanding. Thanks!:thumbup:


Also - I've wondered why posting seems slower in the morning.. maybe it's because your all awake until 1:00AM. I was souuuunnnnddd asleep. :)

[virgogal]

Thanks MJ...I'm interested in changes to her 'wall' or 'status'!

I don't really think the 'downtown' theory has legs...because even if they kept her in the room...the maids or room service staff would see her.

Having worked in a hotel...the staff ALWAYS knows the gossip about the guests!

But it DID cross my mind that she may have been taken there!

[M_J]

I agree. It looks more like the saturn. Also, one media report when they first released the video described it as a "station wagon". Of course, the police claim they don't know which I find very bizarre. I think they would know by now whether it was a van or station wagon.

Woodstock has a population of approximately 35,000 people. How long would it take to check out all car registeries? Heck, they can sort by colour...even if it's not the exact colour. They can rule out white, black or red. :unsure:

Maybe they should give the registry to us and we'll sift through it. :biggrin:

I stole your beer. We're only allowed 4 images per post. LOL

My bold.

ITA!!! I know that LE isn't just sitting back and doing nothing, they can't be, can they!??!? But boy... it seems like it!:cursing:

[M_J]

Thanks MJ...I'm interested in changes to her 'wall' or 'status'!

I don't really think the 'downtown' theory has legs...because even if they kept her in the room...the maids or room service staff would see her.

Having worked in a hotel...the staff ALWAYS knows the gossip about the guests!

But it DID cross my mind that she may have been taken there!

My bold.

Agreed. My mom worked in a hotel - and I would even hear the daily gossip. :rolleyes:

However - in response to what I have put in bold. I'm not sure I agree. With everything available to change haircolour, make up to change the look of the face, different clothing styles.. heck, maybe even wigs.. it's possible someone could walk right by and have no clue.

Maybe thats a little too far fetched?

[n/t]

I added her as a friend I think the second day after Tori was missing.

Not creepy, but.. yeahh.. okay maybe a little. :tongueside: I've often wondered what I would do if she was found guilty of anything involving Tori. Could I even bring myself to her page to remove her as a friend?

If you'd like virgogal, and others, I can update you daily if there is anything new on her profile?

She's had about 10 people write on her wall since saying she will be computer-less, they all pretty much say the same thing.. that they are there for her, etc.

Does she still show her favourite show as "weeds"? I read that on another forum .

Here is what the show is about for those interested. :unsure:

Weeds is an American comedy television series created by Jenji Kohan, produced by Lionsgate Television for the Showtime network.

The plot revolves around a widowed housewife (Mary-Louise Parker) from an affluent California suburb who becomes her neighborhood's marijuana dealer to make ends meet. The title is a play on words, referring to both the slang term for marijuana, and widow's weeds[citation needed]. It also refers to the tendency of American suburbs to grow quickly and pervasively, with the dwellings and their residents being almost as indistinguishable as weeds; this is mirrored in the show's theme song "Little Boxes" and opening credits, and is a recurring theme of the show itself. The theme song changes in the second season. The change consists of a different vocalist every episode.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeds_(TV_series)

[M_J]

Am I allowed to just copy and paste what her "info" is?

if it's posted publically by her, I can, correct?

[n/t]

My bold.

ITA!!! I know that LE isn't just sitting back and doing nothing, they can't be, can they!??!? But boy... it seems like it!:cursing:


After I posted that I thought well...maybe they already checked out the cars seen in that video and this is the only one they couldn't identify because it's not in the Woodstock car registry and the owner of that vehicle hasn't come forward. So.....now that the video is out and surely people have seen the news about Tori across Canada, why hasn't the driver called law enforcement. Is it because...

1) He/she is a suspect

2) He/she is not from Woodstock or Ontario or Canada.

3) They have no idea there's a missing little girl and he/she could be a witness

Any other thoughts?

If they can figure out the make of the car, it wouldn't take much to check a Canada wide registry and/or contact all car dealers selling that type of car....

[n/t]

Am I allowed to just copy and paste what her "info" is?

if it's posted publically by her, I can, correct?

Yes, I believe if it's public, it can be posted.

[M_J]

Thanks n/t.

I will post some of her info in a minute.

Maybe the person driving the car just has no idea? I have been watching the news, and haven't seen really anything about this car.

It could be someone a bit older, who doesn't have access to a computer, and because there isn't much about this on the news, they wouldn't know.

[n/t]

hmmmm...thanks for that MJ.

The one I saw on another board was a screenshot and it showed a photo of Tara &Tori. The hometown was London and her favourite show was weeds.

If I have time later...I'll look for it on the other site and post it.

[Hope4Tori]

I definitely believe that Tara may be being watched from a distance...either from the abductor/s or the police...and she is starting to 'feel' it.

I believe she is beginning to decomposate....(break down)

Just my opinion!

Good morning Virgogal and everyone here!:seeya:

I had wondered the same thing about whether Tara made up the story as a way to meet with Tori and/or her abductors and she could have made up the story to distract LE and the public while hoping to distract them from thinking of that angle. . . just wondering!

The biggest mystery to me since I have been following this case is how Tara and company could go anywhere undetected, let alone get out of town via any mode of travel and not be followed by police?? And would it not be within the rights of LE to demand to know all the details of such a visit to that hotel room, and would they not then, if the trip really took place, and was taken without their knowledge, go to the hotel and the specific hotel room and investigate further? Would they not work to identity the person and his/her motivations for wanting any involvement? LE have said the donor causes them no concern, or words to that effect.

I had wondered here before about surveillance of Tori's family and their homes - phone taps - computer activity monitoring, etc - but as my daughter said to me the police may not have enough resources (staff and/or budget) to devote to doing just that - maybe she's right - but if it's true that no one is under surveillance - all the time and in every posible manner - I think that would be negligent on the part of LE, JMO. Every effort must be made to find Tori no matter the cost, IMO.

How did someone leave a decorated tree in Tara's backyard without being noticed?? Could the tree have been "planted" by her while family members were sleeping?? Has anyone come forward to admit that they in fact left the tree??

It is possible that Tara could have contact with Tori and/or her abductors, IMO, as per my late night post last night - and based on the premise that she was telling the truth about the limo (no matter who arranged it) and the trip to Toronto hotel actually took place, she may or may not have seen Tori while she was there at the hotel room, perhaps she met only with the agent of or the abductor(s) to make a "good faith" installment on any ransom that may have been demanded - just wondering aloud.

Is it possible that Tori's abductor(s), with or without Tara's complicity, actually did make a private ransom demand (whether Tara would benefit only by the safe return of Tori and not actually profit from her kidnapping) - one that Tara has not out of fear for Tori admitted to anyone?? And then could it have happened, just by coincidence, during her struggle to come up with the money by publically appealing for donations, a kind-hearted anonymous person genuinely wanted to help get Tori back and did offer the money? If any of that were true, why would the ransom not have been paid yet and Tori returned safely home - if she has the means now to make that happen and satisfy any ransom demand?? And why would Tara have alerted the public and thereby the police (although she said she had contacted LE to tell them the benefactor story before she went public - who knows?) when it could potentially screw up the chances of getting Tori home safely, if based on the above premise, she was telling the truth and acting out of fear for Tori? Or could she really have planned this whole thing to raise money to pay off debts and pay whomever may be intimidating and/or trying to exhort money from her and/or her boyfriend?

Sorry, I have no answers - just so many questions and possibilities to explore. . .

Hoping to hear news today that Tori :wub:is found safe and sound and the mystery of her abduction is solved!

[n/t]

Here it is, MJ

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt62/elepher50/Tori/Fullfacebookfp.jpg


I got it from here post #336

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3630452#post3630452

[Hope4Tori]

Snipped.. for space.
Thanks H4T. I just thought maybe some people were upset with me?!? Glad to see it was a missunderstanding. Thanks!


Also - I've wondered why posting seems slower in the morning.. maybe it's because your all awake until 1:00AM. I was souuuunnnnddd asleep.

Hey MJ - Thanks for your post MJ!! :thumbsup: I snipped your thumbs up and smile me to give it back to you! :smile: I'm sooo glad to know we're on the same page again - and yes you're probably right, the nightowls are too tired to keep company with everyone here first thing in the morning except maybe n/t who seems to not need any sleep!

As for me, it takes me forever to read and try to keep up with everyone's posts and I often get left far behind while I'm writing my run-on sentence responses!

Hoping for Tori's sake someone will soon rescue her and bring her back home!:wub:

[virgogal]

GREAT post H4T! You write so succintly! (sp?) Your posts are very well though out!

At this point ANYTHING seems possible!

Leland Chapman as a fave celebrity?? You have to be kidding me! That's Dog the Bounty Hunter's idiot son!!

Can't say I agree with her taste in men!

[Hope4Tori]

I'm a little freaked that Tara ducked out of the media spotlight today because she was haunted by "bad dreams" last night.

I dreamt of Tori last night, too.

I was trying to save her. We were on a bus to a little town north of me, or north of her, and she was at the front of the bus with her captors. It was a family, and they were trying to make it seem like Tori was one of them. So me and others on the bus were trying to secretly contact the police. We almost had them, but the bus stopped and everyone got out and we came up with some excuse to make everyone wait around, but the captors got scared and took off with Tori in the car.

I wanted so bad to follow, but I didn't have my car. It was so frustrating. I woke up feeling helpless and useless. :(

Has anyone else been dreaming about Tori?

Hey Streeter - It's so sad that you have had such a dream about Tori but it's no wonder you or anyone - certainly all of us here - would have thoughts of Tori infiltrate our dreams and effect the quality of our sleep! I am not aware of having dreams about Tori, but then I don't often remember my dreams upon waking.

I know one thing though - Tori's very uncertain situation is disturbing to us all and I hope she is found safe and sound soon and I hope you will be able to have happier dreams someday soon!:wub:

[n/t]

I have to go to a lunch meeting and hope to be back for the 1 pm conference.

They will show yesterday's conferences at 12:00

http://www.mogulus.com/lfpress

[kelloggirl]

The biggest mystery to me since I have been following this case is how Tara and company could go anywhere undetected, let alone get out of town via any mode of travel and not be followed by police?? And would it not be within the rights of LE to demand to know all the details of such a visit to that hotel room, and would they not then, if the trip really took place, and was taken without their knowledge, go to the hotel and the specific hotel room and investigate further? Would they not work to identity the person and his/her motivations for wanting any involvement? LE have said the donor causes them no concern, or words to that effect.

...respectfully snipped...

I know. I still haven't decided if I think the Limo thing actually took place. I'm trying to work through all the possibilities and what's most likely.

A.If it did not take place, why would Tara et al make such a story up?

1. She's involved and wants to add credence to the abduction scenario.

2. She's not involved and wants to make people feel bad about not helping/giving money/being suspicious of her by creating this benefactor as an example of how others should be reacting.

B.If there really was a limo and a trip to Toronto, what could the scenarios be for this bizarre occurrence?

1. It was a police setup.

2. Tara and friends wanted a night on the town away from prying eyes to drink, party, do whatever, so hired a limo and "got away"

3. There really is an eccentric, rich benefactor who really wants to help, but only if it really helps - hence the return the child first, then you get the money. Perhaps they're unhinged from the loss of their child.

To me, A1 and B1 are the most likely, followed by B2.

Unfortunately, even if LE proved or disproved the benefactor story, or set it up, we would never hear about it now. They are SO tight-lipped. I understand why, but it's really frustrating!

[virgogal]

Found this on another site....quite humerous and well said!!!

First, the rich person has to research and find out exactly where Tara McDonald lives. He then has to give this driver (a total stranger working for a limo service) these instructions:

(1) Drive from Toronto to Woodstock,
(2) Find such and such address
(3) Don't let the media see your limo
(4) Park around the corner
(5) Sneak through backyards
(6) Find Tara's house from THE BACK
(7) Persuade Tara to go with him back to Toronto without giving out info
(8) Give her two hours, then go back to pick her up
(9) Drive her to Toronto
(10) Wait a couple of hours and drive them back again
(11) Take Tori's brother for a spin
(12) Return to Toronto
(13) Keep all this on the hush-hush

Does this sound plausible? Not to me.

[virgogal]

No live 1pm press conference today.....moderator says if there are any he will upload them as soon as he can.