Nicholas Francisco [5/30 - CLOSED TILL BREAKING NEWS]

[huskiki]

The 2 older kids are not too young to understand what is going on and everything C does and says regarding their father, they will remember forever. I can see some point in their lives where they will learn the full truth and it will bite her big time in the butt.

I disagree, I think the children are too young and over time will forget. How old were they when he disappeared, 5 and 2 ish? Maybe the little girl will remember but I don't think Christine will do anything to keep his memory alive for them. I just don't see that happening, I hope I'm wrong.

I do agree that if there comes a time when they are older and learn of what happened it will as you say, bite her in the butt.

[n/t]

I disagree, I think the children are too young and over time will forget. How old were they when he disappeared, 5 and 2 ish? Maybe the little girl will remember but I don't think Christine will do anything to keep his memory alive for them. I just don't see that happening, I hope I'm wrong.

I do agree that if there comes a time when they are older and learn of what happened it will as you say, bite her in the butt.

I think Zea will always remember that day. If it's true that daddy was on his way home to make cookies with her, I can see that as being very traumatic for a 4 year old to find out her daddy wouldn't be coming home. I don't think Noah will remember and as for the baby, well he wasn't even born yet so never even met his daddy.

Also a point to remember is Christine didn't shield the two from the media so they were both exposed to the sad news about their daddy. Zea definitely could understand what was being said. Eventhough, IIRC, she played and didn't seem effected by it at the time (in the media), as we know PTSD can show up even years later. Christine mentioned Zea would cry for her daddy. I think that's the only thing I truly believe her on.

There's no doubt these children will want to know what happened to their daddy when their older. Who knows, maybe we'll finally get to see active searches for Nicholas Francisco 10 - 15 years from now.

:rose:

Hi huskiki!

[RainyNiteNTx]

I whole heartedly agree with you on Musterion!

I do have to say that his mother and sisters didn't do that but they haven't really done anything else either. Why do you think that they haven't done anything, that we can see or find? Asking honestly. Don't you wonder why they aren't doing more?

Actually I don't. As Christine stated on her one year anniversary media interview, "just because you don't know what people are doing does not mean they are not doing anything" (paraphrased). From what I have read and what I know (which is very limited) about the Franciscos, they are a God fearing family. I believe they are keeping a quiet, yet steady, God devoted vigil for Nicholas. I believe they are probably working through their pastor for support and guidance.

If Christine (who was NF's wife at the time) refused to contact TES and refused to do prime time interviews, and refused even small things such as putting NF's pic on her MySpace, until those questions are answered, I will not turn the focus on NF's family just because "Seeking Truth" planted that seed here.

JMO

[Musterion]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2009152174_webtukwilabody01m.html

"Tukwila Police Department spokesman Mike Murphy said that police do not yet know how long the body had been in the river, but said it appeared to be "predominantly intact."

"The person they found was taller, skinnier and had a tattoo." (then 13 year old boy who was in a car crash in the Green River in November)

[Cheri_G]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2009152174_webtukwilabody01m.html

"Tukwila Police Department spokesman Mike Murphy said that police do not yet know how long the body had been in the river, but said it appeared to be "predominantly intact."

"The person they found was taller, skinnier and had a tattoo." (then 13 year old boy who was in a car crash in the Green River in November)

Not Nick then. I haven't seen anything about the Pier 52 body since the initial reports. Wonder if they have an ID on that person yet.

[MystryPhobia]

Actually I don't. As Christine stated on her one year anniversary media interview, "just because you don't know what people are doing does not mean they are not doing anything" (paraphrased). From what I have read and what I know (which is very limited) about the Franciscos, they are a God fearing family. I believe they are keeping a quiet, yet steady, God devoted vigil for Nicholas. I believe they are probably working through their pastor for support and guidance.

If Christine (who was NF's wife at the time) refused to contact TES and refused to do prime time interviews, and refused even small things such as putting NF's pic on her MySpace, until those questions are answered, I will not turn the focus on NF's family just because "Seeking Truth" planted that seed here.

JMO
It didn't take Christine posting here for some of us to question what, if anything, they are doing. Just because we may believe that she came her to say that about his family to take the spotlight off herself.. does not take away from the validity of the question. What has his sisters and mother done? What has his father done?

I believe his family knows something and that is why they are not doing anything. Perhaps they believe he is alive. Perhaps they believe he is no longer alive. But.. I am sorry.. I can't help but wonder why no myspace for him, that is updated or at least logged into regularly.. Why is their facebook NEVER been updated.. if only with a message that they are still thinking of him, loving him.. a memoral to him.. SOMETHING! I don't understand the.. wait and let God. It is not often that God just drops the answers that we search for in our laps. We have to be willing to help ourselves, to some extent.

[MystryPhobia]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2009152174_webtukwilabody01m.html

"Tukwila Police Department spokesman Mike Murphy said that police do not yet know how long the body had been in the river, but said it appeared to be "predominantly intact."

"The person they found was taller, skinnier and had a tattoo." (then 13 year old boy who was in a car crash in the Green River in November)

I hoped it was the little boy.. that has to be so horrible for that family!:sad:

Prayers for who ever it is and their family.

[Musterion]

I think Zea will always remember that day. If it's true that daddy was on his way home to make cookies with her, I can see that as being very traumatic for a 4 year old to find out her daddy wouldn't be coming home. I don't think Noah will remember and as for the baby, well he wasn't even born yet so never even met his daddy.

Also a point to remember is Christine didn't shield the two from the media so they were both exposed to the sad news about their daddy. Zea definitely could understand what was being said. Eventhough, IIRC, she played and didn't seem effected by it at the time (in the media), as we know PTSD can show up even years later. Christine mentioned Zea would cry for her daddy. I think that's the only thing I truly believe her on.

There's no doubt these children will want to know what happened to their daddy when their older. Who knows, maybe we'll finally get to see active searches for Nicholas Francisco 10 - 15 years from now.

:rose:

Hi huskiki!

Hi n/t,

I think Zea will remember, as you stated, because Valentine's Day will always be significant for her.

If there are any friends left that knew Christine and Nicholas as a family, maybe those people will keep his memory alive.

I would hope and wish that Nicholas' family would always be part of the little one's lives, reminding them of their dad often.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Not Nick then. I haven't seen anything about the Pier 52 body since the initial reports. Wonder if they have an ID on that person yet.

Good Morning, Cheri!

I have seen nothing on the ID of the Pier 52 body. That is odd.

And you're right that it would not be Nicholas because of the tattoo.

However, it did cross my mind that if he was alive and still in the area for the last year, he just may have gotten a tattoo.

Big stretch.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Actually I don't. As Christine stated on her one year anniversary media interview, "just because you don't know what people are doing does not mean they are not doing anything" (paraphrased). From what I have read and what I know (which is very limited) about the Franciscos, they are a God fearing family. I believe they are keeping a quiet, yet steady, God devoted vigil for Nicholas. I believe they are probably working through their pastor for support and guidance.

If Christine (who was NF's wife at the time) refused to contact TES and refused to do prime time interviews, and refused even small things such as putting NF's pic on her MySpace, until those questions are answered, I will not turn the focus on NF's family just because "Seeking Truth" planted that seed here.

JMO

Hi Rainy,

I do think that they are private people. And what you're saying, I believe could be very true. We might not understand why it appears that, publicly, they are doing nothing, but it doesn't mean that they don't live with the grief and heartache of losing Nicholas, every day.

Devout Catholics, like Rosann and Nicholas' sisters appear to be, are different from many of the mainstream, Evangelical Mega-Church worshippers that are in the public eye today. I'm not making a judgment whether one is better than the other. But, there seems to be a difference in how many of them may conduct their lives. How they deal with issues.

We don't know that they don't have a Private Investigator searching. If they did, that, to them, may be the more private thing to do. They may not want anymore information about Nicholas and his secret life broadcast everywhere out of respect and love for him. Yet, I can see where they would quietly have someone working for them, searching for Nicholas. It would keep more in line with how private they appear to be. IMO.

And, I'm with you, Rainy. I am not going to focus on his family, very much, when the the inconsistencies and apparent lies of Christine seem to warrant close and intricate investigation. Time, IMO, is better spent on those glaring red flags.

M.

[Musterion]

It didn't take Christine posting here for some of us to question what, if anything, they are doing. Just because we may believe that she came her to say that about his family to take the spotlight off herself.. does not take away from the validity of the question. What has his sisters and mother done? What has his father done?

I believe his family knows something and that is why they are not doing anything. Perhaps they believe he is alive. Perhaps they believe he is no longer alive. But.. I am sorry.. I can't help but wonder why no myspace for him, that is updated or at least logged into regularly.. Why is their facebook NEVER been updated.. if only with a message that they are still thinking of him, loving him.. a memoral to him.. SOMETHING! I don't understand the.. wait and let God. It is not often that God just drops the answers that we search for in our laps. We have to be willing to help ourselves, to some extent.

Hi, M.

You're right that it didn't take Christine posting here to spur many of us on to wondering why his family wasn't more public with looking for him. Most of us who follow these cases are used to seeing a mother and sisters, loved ones of the missing, crying on the news or coming to these forums to get encouragement and help with searching.

But, there is a difference, that I stated in my last post about privacy, in this case then in most of the other cases we all have followed for years. Nicholas' secret life was exploded all over the internet by Christine, his wife. She, behind the scenes, manipulated that information coming out. I am not convinced that Detective Holland 'found' the information about the secret life, unprompted by Christine. Doesn't mean that Nicholas didn't have a secret life. But, it does mean something. It means that smearing information, true or not, on the internet and news was done by one person. Christine.

Nicholas' mother and sisters have to see that Christine has done that. It has got to hurt them, horribly. In ways that only a mother and sister could hurt when their loved one is exposed publicly.

This case is different because of that. His family could not feel open or comfortable coming to any of these boards when they know that Christine is lurking here or other places and would, more than likely, try to destroy their credibility and words, using a nic like she has.

They must feel that there is no where to turn after Hurricane Christine blew across the internet and news.

So, no, they don't appear to be public about their grief, asking for help finding Nicholas, or trying to keep his disappearance in the public eye.

It comes back to Christine, M., always. IMO. When Christine threw Nicholas' secret life out into the arena, she had to know that his family would be mortified. She knows them. She has to know how private they are. She knew what she was doing when she exposed Nicholas to the world. I do give her credit for being an expert manipulator. She does wield her manipulation power aggressively.

This case is different, because of Christine. His family has done nothing wrong. Zero. IMO. We might have questioned why they didn't appear to be doing anything to find Nicholas before Christine came here, but until the focus was bearing down hard on her, just when we were all gaining momentum as a group to find some answers about her, just when Christine was getting married, she comes on here and twists that focus to his family and to Nicholas alive and in San Diego. She did not want us getting too close to what we were investigating.

I'm not shifting focus.

M.

[CaresForKids]

I disagree, I think the children are too young and over time will forget. How old were they when he disappeared, 5 and 2 ish? Maybe the little girl will remember but I don't think Christine will do anything to keep his memory alive for them. I just don't see that happening, I hope I'm wrong.

I do agree that if there comes a time when they are older and learn of what happened it will as you say, bite her in the butt.

If Zea is still as distraught as C says she is, crying herself to sleep every night...she will most certainly remember everything. Whether Noah will remember the exact day or not is still up for grabs, however, he will certainly remember how C is acting now and what is being said by her about his father. She obviously does not shield them from her erratic outbursts as shown by her news appearances.

snipped from n/t's post and as for the baby, well he wasn't even born yet so never even met his daddy.


I know the baby wasn't born yet and is too young at this point to have any recollection or understanding of the whole matter...that was just silly to add him and why I did not and specifically stated the 2 OLDER kids.

[n/t]

If Zea is still as distraught as C says she is, crying herself to sleep every night...she will most certainly remember everything. Whether Noah will remember the exact day or not is still up for grabs, however, he will certainly remember how C is acting now and what is being said by her about his father. She obviously does not shield them from her erratic outbursts as shown by her news appearances.

snipped from n/t's post

I know the baby wasn't born yet and is too young at this point to have any recollection or understanding of the whole matter...that was just silly to add him and why I did not and specifically stated the 2 OLDER kids.


That's fine that you didn't add him but I did.. What's the big deal? Why so snippy and saying it was silly? :confused:

[Musterion]

Mystry just sent this news but didn't have time to post:

The man's body was found in Lacey. That is about 45 miles south of SeaTac. About 35 miles from where Nicholas' car was found.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_050109WAB-skull-found-near-school-TP.bf8f195.html

"Mealy says the skull appears to be that of a man in his 30s. It may have been there for more than a year. It does have some dental work that may help in identifying the man.

A spent .38 caliber casing was found about ten feet from the skull, but it’s not know if that is related to the skull."

[Musterion]

http://www.theolympian.com/topstories/story/837779.html

"The skull appears to be from a young male, age 35 to 40, and looks like it has been there a year or longer, according to Lt. Chris Mealy. The skull, which does not include the lower jaw, has some dental work that may aid in identification, Mealy said.

Mealy said that the remains do not match any missing persons cases yet."

[CaresForKids]

Oh M. Oh M. I will cry and feel terribly if he is found lying out in the middle of no where dead from a gunshot to the head. A few cavities, does not mean a few fillings. We really don't even know if he had any filliings, do we. :(

That missing poster stated he had a Dental history: Couple cavities :sad:

http://www.findnicholasfrancisco.com/

[Musterion]

Oh M. Oh M. I will cry and feel terribly if he is found lying out in the middle of no where dead from a gunshot to the head. A few cavities, does not mean a few fillings. We really don't even know if he had any filliings, do we. :(

I know, me too.

I cannot imagine what a missing person's family feels when they hear news that might describe their loved one being found dead.

Whoever this man is, I'm praying for the pain his family has and will feel.

And, of course, praying for Nicholas.

IMO.
M.

[inv]

Unfortunately, with LE not actively searching for Nicholas, we may never know what really happened to him unless someone stumbles upon his remains, or someone sees him and reports it.

I am going to continue searching the web for clues, and working to get the media involved in this case again. Other than that, I plan to continue reading posts here, and on other boards, but I probably won't be posting as much.

Here's to hoping that Nicholas is found safe soon..:rose:

[MystryPhobia]

Hi, M.

You're right that it didn't take Christine posting here to spur many of us on to wondering why his family wasn't more public with looking for him. Most of us who follow these cases are used to seeing a mother and sisters, loved ones of the missing, crying on the news or coming to these forums to get encouragement and help with searching.

But, there is a difference, that I stated in my last post about privacy, in this case then in most of the other cases we all have followed for years. Nicholas' secret life was exploded all over the internet by Christine, his wife. She, behind the scenes, manipulated that information coming out. I am not convinced that Detective Holland 'found' the information about the secret life, unprompted by Christine. Doesn't mean that Nicholas didn't have a secret life. But, it does mean something. It means that smearing information, true or not, on the internet and news was done by one person. Christine.

Nicholas' mother and sisters have to see that Christine has done that. It has got to hurt them, horribly. In ways that only a mother and sister could hurt when their loved one is exposed publicly.

This case is different because of that. His family could not feel open or comfortable coming to any of these boards when they know that Christine is lurking here or other places and would, more than likely, try to destroy their credibility and words, using a nic like she has.

They must feel that there is no where to turn after Hurricane Christine blew across the internet and news.

So, no, they don't appear to be public about their grief, asking for help finding Nicholas, or trying to keep his disappearance in the public eye.

It comes back to Christine, M., always. IMO. When Christine threw Nicholas' secret life out into the arena, she had to know that his family would be mortified. She knows them. She has to know how private they are. She knew what she was doing when she exposed Nicholas to the world. I do give her credit for being an expert manipulator. She does wield her manipulation power aggressively.

This case is different, because of Christine. His family has done nothing wrong. Zero. IMO. We might have questioned why they didn't appear to be doing anything to find Nicholas before Christine came here, but until the focus was bearing down hard on her, just when we were all gaining momentum as a group to find some answers about her, just when Christine was getting married, she comes on here and twists that focus to his family and to Nicholas alive and in San Diego. She did not want us getting too close to what we were investigating.

I'm not shifting focus.

M.

Hi again..

I don't think that you have to shift focus to look at what, if anything, what they have done or not done means. That is just my opinion. One may have nothing to do with the other.

I say this because of things that I have been told. And.. I know you will say that Christine manipulated what was said.. but I have to wonder what she would gain by saying that Nicholas' mother absolutely does not buy the double life stuff and blames Christine for Nicholas disappearing.

I will never understand their silence. I don't think it means anything about Christine and what she may or may not have done. I do think it says something about what they know. That is just my opinion.

[Musterion]

Hi again..

I don't think that you have to shift focus to look at what, if anything, what they have done or not done means. That is just my opinion. One may have nothing to do with the other.

I say this because of things that I have been told. And.. I know you will say that Christine manipulated what was said.. but I have to wonder what she would gain by saying that Nicholas' mother absolutely does not buy the double life stuff and blames Christine for Nicholas disappearing.

I will never understand their silence. I don't think it means anything about Christine and what she may or may not have done. I do think it says something about what they know. That is just my opinion.

Hey, M.!

You know that I know you weren't telling me I had to change my focus! :) I understand your perspective and respect it as you do mine.

In the last year I have noticed that Christine says most everything for a reason. From my view it has usually been to benefit herself. I don't know if she does all of it consciously, or if, because she has had abuse in her childhood she has developed that pattern to survive. But, it's there.

Why did she say that Rosann wouldn't believe that Nicholas had a secret life? From the little tiny bit that we've seen, it seems that maybe Rosann didn't accept Christine. I think that telling people that Rosann blames Christine for Nicholas' disappearance and doesn't believe in the secret life makes Christine a more sympathetic character in this whole mystery. It brings her more sympathy from those who are already lined up with her and believe 100% that Nicholas was a liar and cheat and lived a sordid life for years behind her back and probably left her pregnant and with two little children. It plants a negative about Rosann in those who support Christine. And, if there is a negative about Rosann, then Rosann's actions or inactions will appear more 'suspicious'.

JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Unfortunately, with LE not actively searching for Nicholas, we may never know what really happened to him unless someone stumbles upon his remains, or someone sees him and reports it.

I am going to continue searching the web for clues, and working to get the media involved in this case again. Other than that, I plan to continue reading posts here, and on other boards, but I probably won't be posting as much.

Here's to hoping that Nicholas is found safe soon..:rose:

Oh no, Inv, please don't stop posting! You help me brainstorm and I would miss that if you weren't here regularly.

I'm glad you are still set on investigating about Nicholas. I believe he needs all the people he can to help find out what happened.

Hugs,
M.

[Musterion]

No new news really about the skull found in Olympia.

http://www.theolympian.com/112/story/838401.html

"On Friday morning, investigating detectives with the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office said the skull likely belonged to a 35- to 40-year-old man. The rib – which has not been positively identified as being human – was 30 to 40 yards from the skull.

According to information from the Thurston County coroner, the skull likely was outside for more than a year, Thurston County Sheriff’s Lt. Chris Mealy said.

Detectives don’t yet know the identity of the man or how he died."

[CaresForKids]

No new news really about the skull found in Olympia.

http://www.theolympian.com/112/story/838401.html

"On Friday morning, investigating detectives with the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office said the skull likely belonged to a 35- to 40-year-old man. The rib – which has not been positively identified as being human – was 30 to 40 yards from the skull.

According to information from the Thurston County coroner, the skull likely was outside for more than a year, Thurston County Sheriff’s Lt. Chris Mealy said.

Detectives don’t yet know the identity of the man or how he died."

Nick was 28 so that may out rule him. We can hope...

[AJandTam]

No new news really about the skull found in Olympia.

http://www.theolympian.com/112/story/838401.html

"On Friday morning, investigating detectives with the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office said the skull likely belonged to a 35- to 40-year-old man. The rib – which has not been positively identified as being human – was 30 to 40 yards from the skull.

According to information from the Thurston County coroner, the skull likely was outside for more than a year, Thurston County Sheriff’s Lt. Chris Mealy said.

Detectives don’t yet know the identity of the man or how he died."

Nick was 28, wasn't he?

[AJandTam]

Nick was 28 so that may out rule him. We can hope...

Well you just answered my question. Who else is missing in the area there for the last year??

[RainyNiteNTx]

Well you just answered my question. Who else is missing in the area there for the last year??

Villamu Fale, but according to his wife, he went to Alaska. LE sure takes the spouse's word for a lot of things in that area it seems. Lynn Stafford's husband had a memorial for her due to some suicide note he produced.

Some of the comments indicated it was near a homeless camp, so perhaps it was a homeless person who was not reported missing.

[AJandTam]

Villamu Fale, but according to his wife, he went to Alaska. LE sure takes the spouse's word for a lot of things in that area it seems. Lynn Stafford's husband had a memorial for her due to some suicide note he produced.

Some of the comments indicated it was near a homeless camp, so perhaps it was a homeless person who was not reported missing.

Hey Rainy..
Oh yeah. I forgot about VF, guess he is still missing too.. Could be right on the homeless guy. Yikes. We'll have to keep watching and see what happens..

Figures, suicide note huh? Oh my...

[CaresForKids]

Yeah, suicide notes are never forced or coerced...I'd believe it was authentic too....:sneaky:









NOT!

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hey Rainy..
Oh yeah. I forgot about VF, guess he is still missing too.. Could be right on the homeless guy. Yikes. We'll have to keep watching and see what happens..

Figures, suicide note huh? Oh my...

Hey Tammers :) Yep, this is a wait and see what happens. I've been checking for updates off and on all day.

[CaresForKids]

Wasn't Viliamu 30?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Wasn't Viliamu 30?

Yes, at the time of his disappearance, he was 30.

[AJandTam]

Hey Tammers :) Yep, this is a wait and see what happens. I've been checking for updates off and on all day.

Let us know if you hear anything. You guys ok down there?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Let us know if you hear anything. You guys ok down there?

Oh I will. Doing okay :)

[Musterion]

Skull has been there a year, or longer. And now a young man instead of thirties or forties (of course the age thing is subjective, I suppose).

Oh the waiting....I can't imagine Nicholas' family and how they may be feeling, if they know.

http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-050209-thurstoncountyskull,0,7703622.story

"Investigators combing the area where a human skull was found two days ago have recovered what may be more human remains. Thurston County Sheriff Lieutenant Chris Mealy says crime scene investigators spent Saturday morning searching through a wooded area near Meadows Elementary on Deerbrush Drive S.E., and found what appears to be human bones. Detectives say the skull found Thursday night appears to be from a young man and may have been there a year or longer."

[Musterion]

This is from Komo with pictures of the skull. I don't know why they posted pics of it, but, well, here they are.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/44186837.html

IMO.
M.

[CaresForKids]

My heart just sunk into the pit of my stomach. Whether this is Nick or not, this is a most horrific find for anyone and their family.

[SeattleEddie]

More bones found near school
ROLF BOONE; The Olympian | • Published May 03, 2009

http://http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/839153.html (http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/839153.html)

>>>>The bones later were identified as a human lower jaw bone, a femur (thigh), lower leg bones, upper arm bones, vertebrae (back), both scapulas (shoulder blades) and rib bones, Thurston County Coroner Gary Warnock said.

The Coroner’s Office also found teeth with dental fillings in the skull, he said.

[Cury-us Coyote]

Investigators Say More Possible Human Remains Recovered In Area Where Skull Was Found

Police have no idea how the person died, but say there was no apparent trauma to the skull.

http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-050209-thurstoncountyskull,0,7703622.story

[Shelby1]

Hi everyone! Been away a couple days.

Thanks for all of the news updates. I am praying for the families and for Nicholas. :crying:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hi everyone! Been away a couple days.

Thanks for all of the news updates. I am praying for the families and for Nicholas. :crying:

Hey Shelby - welcome back. I think a lot of us are waiting to see what comes of the remains that have been found. I hope LE is also looking for any other evidence such as a cell phone or a laptop.

[CC I See]

Hey Shelby - welcome back. I think a lot of us are waiting to see what comes of the remains that have been found. I hope LE is also looking for any other evidence such as a cell phone or a laptop.

....they should know right away if the clothes or by this time, scraps of clothing matches the clothes that he was known to be wearing when he disappeared.

As for finding his laptop or cell phone, that has to be long gone by now considering the area the body was found in.

[CaresForKids]

....they should know right away if the clothes or by this time, scraps of clothing matches the clothes that he was known to be wearing when he disappeared.

As for finding his laptop or cell phone, that has to be long gone by now considering the area the body was found in.

They didn't mention finding any clothes, just bones and a skull. He may not have even been wearing the same clothes he had been last seen in as well. Even if there were clothes that resembled what Nick was wearing the night he went missing, they'd still have to do a DNA or dental match to rule without a doubt that the remains are indeed his.

[Musterion]

I went onto the Washington State Missing Persons website last night.http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php

The criteria I put into the database was missing men in the whole state of Washington age 28 plus 5 years, they did not have a choice for more than plus five years. They didn't have an option for years missing. Although they did have recent, within last few months, missing. I eliminated quite a few because they had been missing more than a year and a half.

Eighty Eight names came up with my criteria.

These names fit my criteria before I got banned from the system. I think they've banned me forever! :ohmy: A message comes up and says that you are banned so others may use the system, but try tomorrow. And then, further abuses will result in permanent banning. Oops.

1) Abdifatah Y Isse Date of Birth: Sun Dec-25-1983 Last Seen: Wed Mar-04-2009

2) Robert K Morris Date of Birth: Tue Jul-05-1983 Last Seen: Tue Jan-27-2009

3) Jose Aristeo Ortega jimenez Date of Birth: Sun May-29-1983 Last Seen: Fri Feb-29-2008

4) Matthew Louis Alderman Date of Birth: Fri Feb-11-1977 Last Seen: Fri Apr-17-2009

5) Juan Arteagaesquivel Date of Birth: Thu Apr-25-1985 Last Seen: Mon May-05-2008

IMO.
M.

[AJandTam]

Skull has been there a year, or longer. And now a young man instead of thirties or forties (of course the age thing is subjective, I suppose).

Oh the waiting....I can't imagine Nicholas' family and how they may be feeling, if they know.

http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-050209-thurstoncountyskull,0,7703622.story

"Investigators combing the area where a human skull was found two days ago have recovered what may be more human remains. Thurston County Sheriff Lieutenant Chris Mealy says crime scene investigators spent Saturday morning searching through a wooded area near Meadows Elementary on Deerbrush Drive S.E., and found what appears to be human bones. Detectives say the skull found Thursday night appears to be from a young man and may have been there a year or longer."


Thank you for the links Must

Can't believe they actually showed the skull. Maybe we will have an ID by tomorrow sometime.
Dental records for that guy somewhere. As it sounds like he had dental work done. That makes it easier to ID.

[Musterion]

Thank you for the links Must

Can't believe they actually showed the skull. Maybe we will have an ID by tomorrow sometime.
Dental records for that guy somewhere. As it sounds like he had dental work done. That makes it easier to ID.

Hi AJandTam!

It's so good to see you here!

I would think it would be a cinch for them to ID this person especially because of the dental records.

But, the body that was found under the Pier in Seattle a few weeks ago we haven't heard any news about.

I will never, and hope I never, know the agony a missing person's family goes through. :sad:

IMO.
M.

[AJandTam]

I went onto the Washington State Missing Persons website last night.http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php

The criteria I put into the database was missing men in the whole state of Washington age 28 plus 5 years, they did not have a choice for more than plus five years. They didn't have an option for years missing. Although they did have recent, within last few months, missing. I eliminated quite a few because they had been missing more than a year and a half.

Eighty Eight names came up with my criteria.

These names fit my criteria before I got banned from the system. I think they've banned me forever! :ohmy: A message comes up and says that you are banned so others may use the system, but try tomorrow. And then, further abuses will result in permanent banning. Oops.

1) Abdifatah Y Isse Date of Birth: Sun Dec-25-1983 Last Seen: Wed Mar-04-2009

2) Robert K Morris Date of Birth: Tue Jul-05-1983 Last Seen: Tue Jan-27-2009

3) Jose Aristeo Ortega jimenez Date of Birth: Sun May-29-1983 Last Seen: Fri Feb-29-2008

4) Matthew Louis Alderman Date of Birth: Fri Feb-11-1977 Last Seen: Fri Apr-17-2009

5) Juan Arteagaesquivel Date of Birth: Thu Apr-25-1985 Last Seen: Mon May-05-2008

IMO.
M.


Dang Must, what did you do that made them ban you? I can't believe you did a thing so, who do I complain to, to get you back in. Darn it..

Wasn't there another guy who disappeared around the same time as Nick that was also into the same line of work?? I vaguely recall something like that, but can't recall the details. Aghhhh my memory.

[AJandTam]

Hi AJandTam!

It's so good to see you here!

I would think it would be a cinch for them to ID this person especially because of the dental records.

But, the body that was found under the Pier in Seattle a few weeks ago we haven't heard any news about.

I will never, and hope I never, know the agony a missing person's family goes through. :sad:

IMO.
M.

Nice to see you as well Must.. Thank you. I would think so too, at least hope so. This guy has been missing for a year or more. I'm sure there is someone out there that just wants to know what happened to him. Strange description of the area.. target shooting and homeless encampments. Doesn't that sound weird.. ??

I hear ya about having someone missing. I had a very brief incident w/that a few years ago w/my autistic son. He got up and left one morning at 5 am. thankfully, the LE found him quickly, as the LE had spotted him walking down the street w/his backpack. thought it weird, as no school that day.. so when I put in the 911 call, they knew where he was.. Thank god. He is not one who should have been out there alone. He was 15 at the time, but his condition's pretty severe.

[Musterion]

Nice to see you as well Must.. Thank you. I would think so too, at least hope so. This guy has been missing for a year or more. I'm sure there is someone out there that just wants to know what happened to him. Strange description of the area.. target shooting and homeless encampments. Doesn't that sound weird.. ??

I hear ya about having someone missing. I had a very brief incident w/that a few years ago w/my autistic son. He got up and left one morning at 5 am. thankfully, the LE found him quickly, as the LE had spotted him walking down the street w/his backpack. thought it weird, as no school that day.. so when I put in the 911 call, they knew where he was.. Thank god. He is not one who should have been out there alone. He was 15 at the time, but his condition's pretty severe.

Oh my gosh....I bet you were panicked! It must just be a range of emotions in nanoseconds when you realized your child is gone. I'm glad it turned out so well.

It does sound weird to me about the homeless area there and target shooting. My thoughts, immediately, were if there are people living within feet of this skull and the other bones, as well as people target shooting,......why in the heck didn't someone see this skull sooner?

JMO.
M.

[AJandTam]

Oh my gosh....I bet you were panicked! It must just be a range of emotions in nanoseconds when you realized your child is gone. I'm glad it turned out so well.

It does sound weird to me about the homeless area there and target shooting. My thoughts, immediately, were if there are people living within feet of this skull and the other bones, as well as people target shooting,......why in the heck didn't someone see this skull sooner?

JMO.
M.

OMG Must. Panic isn't the world. You go into like a type of shock and your mind just runs on auto pilot. Scared the heck out of me. W/his condition especially, he didn't know enough not to get into the car w/a pervert. It was so early in the am. No one was out.. Oh and at the time this happened. Ofcourse, my husband was in ICU. .. rough times.. but still standing.

I agree w/you. That is just a strange mix for a dead body to be out there so long. I can't imagine why they didn't find the person. It doesn't sound like the person was buried, so did that body sit out there w/all that activity going on, and decompose, smell and all. You would think? Even if the body was out there in the winter, it would still smell?? Or is that the answer. The man was put out there and at the time, no one was out there because of winter?

[Musterion]

Dang Must, what did you do that made them ban you? I can't believe you did a thing so, who do I complain to, to get you back in. Darn it..

Wasn't there another guy who disappeared around the same time as Nick that was also into the same line of work?? I vaguely recall something like that, but can't recall the details. Aghhhh my memory.

I know. I'm expecting the King County Sheriff to come knocking on my door any moment.....Going to prison for the rest of my life because I abused the missing person's website. The stigma my child would grow up with, sheesh!

Well, Vilimu Fale went missing the day after Nicholas. But, he wasn't a graphic artist.

Duna Florin Iulian went missing not far from where Nicholas' car was found, two years (3 May 2006) before Nicholas went missing. He was an artist from Romania, 27 years old, dark hair.

http://someoneismissing.com/washington/duna-iuly-florin.htm

Also, from Federal Way, Brian Barton. He was 25, White/Pacific Islander, dark hair. Missing in 2005, March 10. The place he was living and was last seen was not far from where Nicholas' car was found.

http://www.myspace.com/brianbartonmissing I can't go on his myspace without crying!

Were any of these who you were thinking of?

JMO.
M.

[SeattleEddie]

Expert called to study bones

VENICE BUHAIN; The Olympian | • Published May 04, 2009

http://http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/839773.html (http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/839773.html)

The human bones found near Meadows Elementary School will be analyzed by an anthropologist ......
...........
The person’s gender, and when and how the person died has not been determined, he said.

??????

[CC I See]

They didn't mention finding any clothes, just bones and a skull. He may not have even been wearing the same clothes he had been last seen in as well. Even if there were clothes that resembled what Nick was wearing the night he went missing, they'd still have to do a DNA or dental match to rule without a doubt that the remains are indeed his.

Yes, I realize that they would have to do a complete DNA match to the remains. But if they find clothing and it seems to be the same as the description as what Nicholas was last seen wearing, it would move the investigation closer to putting the pieces together with somewhere to start in identifying the remains.

[Musterion]

Expert called to study bones

VENICE BUHAIN; The Olympian | • Published May 04, 2009

http://http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/839773.html (http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/839773.html)

The human bones found near Meadows Elementary School will be analyzed by an anthropologist ......
...........
The person’s gender, and when and how the person died has not been determined, he said.

??????

Well, isn't that interesting....

Thanks, SE.

IMO.
M.

[AJandTam]

I know. I'm expecting the King County Sheriff to come knocking on my door any moment.....Going to prison for the rest of my life because I abused the missing person's website. The stigma my child would grow up with, sheesh!

Well, Vilimu Fale went missing the day after Nicholas. But, he wasn't a graphic artist.

Duna Florin Iulian went missing not far from where Nicholas' car was found, two years (3 May 2006) before Nicholas went missing. He was an artist from Romania, 27 years old, dark hair.

http://someoneismissing.com/washington/duna-iuly-florin.htm

Also, from Federal Way, Brian Barton. He was 25, White/Pacific Islander, dark hair. Missing in 2005, March 10. The place he was living and was last seen was not far from where Nicholas' car was found.

http://www.myspace.com/brianbartonmissing I can't go on his myspace without crying!

Were any of these who you were thinking of?

JMO.
M.

Durn King County boys didn't show up did they? The pest. We got work to do.

Not sure those names are right. This one was a graphic's artist.
I think the connection to VF, was his wife worked at Sam's or Costco one of those type places. . IIRC, some thought that Sams/ Costco was the one Nick was headed for.. then that guy disappeared too. Wife wasn't worried. Said he went to Alaska .

[AJandTam]

Expert called to study bones

VENICE BUHAIN; The Olympian | • Published May 04, 2009

http://http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/839773.html (http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/839773.html)

The human bones found near Meadows Elementary School will be analyzed by an anthropologist ......
...........
The person’s gender, and when and how the person died has not been determined, he said.

??????

Hmmmmm I thought they decided already this was a man 30-40/ Then another article said 35/40?? Now they don't know gender?

[AJandTam]

I know. I'm expecting the King County Sheriff to come knocking on my door any moment.....Going to prison for the rest of my life because I abused the missing person's website. The stigma my child would grow up with, sheesh!

Well, Vilimu Fale went missing the day after Nicholas. But, he wasn't a graphic artist.

Duna Florin Iulian went missing not far from where Nicholas' car was found, two years (3 May 2006) before Nicholas went missing. He was an artist from Romania, 27 years old, dark hair.

http://someoneismissing.com/washington/duna-iuly-florin.htm

Also, from Federal Way, Brian Barton. He was 25, White/Pacific Islander, dark hair. Missing in 2005, March 10. The place he was living and was last seen was not far from where Nicholas' car was found.

http://www.myspace.com/brianbartonmissing I can't go on his myspace without crying!

Were any of these who you were thinking of?

JMO.
M.

Did Nick wear glasses? The two people in the links you provided. Had very simular glasses and same hair color..

[CaresForKids]

Durn King County boys didn't show up did they? The pest. We got work to do.

Not sure those names are right. This one was a graphic's artist.
I think the connection to VF, was his wife worked at Sam's or Costco one of those type places. . IIRC, some thought that Sams/ Costco was the one Nick was headed for.. then that guy disappeared too. Wife wasn't worried. Said he went to Alaska .

Bold by me

I always wondered why she reported him missing if she knew where he went. That is unless in the interim, she didn't actually know and then found him or he contacted her. But still for LE to dismiss the case so easily...I truly hope they checked out the story and had LE in Alaska identify Viliamu in Alaska, living and breathing!

[Musterion]

Durn King County boys didn't show up did they? The pest. We got work to do.

Not sure those names are right. This one was a graphic's artist.
I think the connection to VF, was his wife worked at Sam's or Costco one of those type places. . IIRC, some thought that Sams/ Costco was the one Nick was headed for.. then that guy disappeared too. Wife wasn't worried. Said he went to Alaska .

:)

Hm. I can't remember another graphic artist gone missing around then?

Fale's wife reported him missing, IIRC. Then, said it was a personal matter.

The Costco that Nicholas was headed for was the one where Stephanie Fale worked. She denied that they knew Nicholas.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Did Nick wear glasses? The two people in the links you provided. Had very simular glasses and same hair color..

I don't think he did wear glasses.

But, I thought the three of them had similar looks.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Bold by me

I always wondered why she reported him missing if she knew where he went. That is unless in the interim, she didn't actually know and then found him or he contacted her. But still for LE to dismiss the case so easily...I truly hope they checked out the story and had LE in Alaska identify Viliamu in Alaska, living and breathing!

It has baffled me, Cares.

He is still listed as missing on Help Find The Missing:

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/missing_database/?p=250

Yet, Harlett said this:

"Nicholas Francisco and Viliamu Fale cases are not connected according to LE.

I have also talked to Stephanie Fale, Viliamu's wife, she says the cases are not connected." 4/5/08

http://helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2562&page=12

Archived Nicholas Thread, All4Nic said this:

I actually emailed (through MySpace) Viliamu Fale's wife. I was pretty direct in asking her to tell me if she thought the two cases were related. I'm not saying this is *the truth* but this is what she *told* me, exactly:

"Trust me when I say that "I KNOW NOTHING!" You are not the first to inquire where my husband is. There have been so many and I have answered so many questions. My situation is very different from the Nicholas's. I have no idea how my information got out when all I did was file a police report. I would appreciate if everyone would please stop asking me questions. This is a very hard time in my life. My situation is private for now to both our families which is why I have not alerted the media. And these personal and private reasons have nothing to do with Nicholas Francisco." 3/19/08

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:NQ9FbrrDvfMJ:boards.insessiontrials .com/archive/index.php/t-326840.html+Viliamu+Fale+went+to+Alaska&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

IMO
M.

[AJandTam]

Bold by me

I always wondered why she reported him missing if she knew where he went. That is unless in the interim, she didn't actually know and then found him or he contacted her. But still for LE to dismiss the case so easily...I truly hope they checked out the story and had LE in Alaska identify Viliamu in Alaska, living and breathing!

All I can think of is that Vale bailed on her, she didn't know where he went at first, but then found out??

[AJandTam]

:)

Hm. I can't remember another graphic artist gone missing around then?

Fale's wife reported him missing, IIRC. Then, said it was a personal matter.

The Costco that Nicholas was headed for was the one where Stephanie Fale worked. She denied that they knew Nicholas.

IMO.
M.

Right, IF Fale is in Alaska, I assume the LE checked then no big deal. Maybe he just had a fight w/his wife, and dumped her. IF he was really missing, and one guy is headed to the store goes missing, and another w/a wife who works there goes missing. All w/in a day of each other. That would be very interesting. Unfortunately, We really don't know what the deal is w/Fale.. Do we?

Ok, just saw where it says he is still listed as missing. Do they keep that updated? If he is still missing. HIS wife LIED.

[AJandTam]

Oh yeah.. and we always used to mix up whether it was Fale or Vale. Just in case anyone notices.. I'm still doing it. :blushing:

[Musterion]

Right, IF Fale is in Alaska, I assume the LE checked then no big deal. Maybe he just had a fight w/his wife, and dumped her. IF he was really missing, and one guy is headed to the store goes missing, and another w/a wife who works there goes missing. All w/in a day of each other. That would be very interesting. Unfortunately, We really don't know what the deal is w/Fale.. Do we?

Ok, just saw where it says he is still listed as missing. Do they keep that updated? If he is still missing. HIS wife LIED.

I think this is how we got the 'being-in-Alaska' clue.

"At the bottom of Fale's missing person's report was a phone number and it said something like- to request a photo call this number- so I did.

The woman that answered told me that all that they knew was that he was "apparently headed to Alaska to see his mother." She said that it's not technically a crime for an adult to leave, unless foul play is determined/suspected.

I don't know what Viliamu's wife meant by "different" but I'm assuming she might also think he's on his way to Alaska but since he hasn't been found, he's still "missing." :shrug:

Posted by All4nic 3/19/08

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:NQ9FbrrDvfMJ:boards.insessiontrials .com/archive/index.php/t-326840.html+Viliamu+Fale+went+to+Alaska&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

I googled Viliamu's name in Alaska and came up with one Viliamu Fale. I googled Stephanie, his wife's name and her name came up in Alaska as well. He had an address listed with his but she didn't. I don't know if that means they are together there or not. If it is even the right Viliamu.

Help Find The Missing is updated continually and that is why I found it odd that Viliamu is still on there. Especially since Harlett says she has talked to Stephanie.

Viliamu isn't listed on the Washington State Missing Person's website.

IMO.
M.

[AJandTam]

I think this is how we got the 'being-in-Alaska' clue.

"At the bottom of Fale's missing person's report was a phone number and it said something like- to request a photo call this number- so I did.

The woman that answered told me that all that they knew was that he was "apparently headed to Alaska to see his mother." She said that it's not technically a crime for an adult to leave, unless foul play is determined/suspected.

I don't know what Viliamu's wife meant by "different" but I'm assuming she might also think he's on his way to Alaska but since he hasn't been found, he's still "missing." :shrug:

Posted by All4nic 3/19/08

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:NQ9FbrrDvfMJ:boards.insessiontrials .com/archive/index.php/t-326840.html+Viliamu+Fale+went+to+Alaska&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

I googled Viliamu's name in Alaska and came up with one Viliamu Fale. I googled Stephanie, his wife's name and her name came up in Alaska as well. He had an address listed with his but she didn't. I don't know if that means they are together there or not. If it is even the right Viliamu.

Help Find The Missing is updated continually and that is why I found it odd that Viliamu is still on there. Especially since Harlett says she has talked to Stephanie.

Viliamu isn't listed on the Washington State Missing Person's website.

IMO.
M.

Confusing isn't it?? Hard to figure out if he is still missing or not. Kind of sound like there was some domestic troubles and he bailed on her, then they ended up back together in Alaska..

As for heading to alaska to see his mother. Well, everyone who goes missing was headed somewhere.. Right.. Weird case

[Musterion]

Confusing isn't it?? Hard to figure out if he is still missing or not. Kind of sound like there was some domestic troubles and he bailed on her, then they ended up back together in Alaska..

As for heading to alaska to see his mother. Well, everyone who goes missing was headed somewhere.. Right.. Weird case

The whole Nicholas Francisco missing person case is odd. IMO.

What are the odds of Nicholas going missing the night before Valentine's Day and then on Valentine's Day Viliamu goes missing. They live in the same general area. Coincidence. But, really odd.

JMO.
M.

[AJandTam]

The whole Nicholas Francisco missing person case is odd. IMO.

What are the odds of Nicholas going missing the night before Valentine's Day and then on Valentine's Day Viliamu goes missing. They live in the same general area. Coincidence. But, really odd.

JMO.
M.

I agree, Nicks disappearance was very odd. His wife and all she has done since is ODD. Fale going missing isn't odd if he just had a fight w/this wife and took off. Odd would be if he is still missing and his wife lied about him going to Alaska. Wish we could figure out the real deal w/Fale. Is he really missing or is he and his wife back together in Alaska??

[Musterion]

I agree, Nicks disappearance was very odd. His wife and all she has done since is ODD. Fale going missing isn't odd if he just had a fight w/this wife and took off. Odd would be if he is still missing and his wife lied about him going to Alaska. Wish we could figure out the real deal w/Fale. Is he really missing or is he and his wife back together in Alaska??

You're absolutely right, Tam. Finding out if Mrs. Fale lied might lead us to some interesting clues.

JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I have been following this thread started by a 'friend' of Nicholas', since Nicholas' disappearance. Many of you may have been following it as well.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/chit-chat-section/205497-friend-mia-2-kids-1-way-vanished.html

The thread's title is: "Friend, MIA". (Remember 'friend')

He says in his first post on 2/15/08:

"My buddie Nick dissappeared after work on the 13th. He had told his daughter that he would make valentines with her that night when he got home. He called his wife from work letting her know he would be coming home and told his co-worker that he was going to stop by the store on the way. Its been over 48 hours now and he is all over the news up here. Drives a 92 Toyota Paseo. Figure its a long shot, but keep your eyes open and call 911 if you hear of anything. He lives for his family, so I don't see him picking up an splitting." (Bolding mine)

Then on 2/14/09:

"Yea, she's a friend, I've know for a while. I know details but I'm not super close to the investigation... so... out of respect for her and her family I will stay silent until there is either a break in the investigation or she tells you through the media. She did share alot but didn't get too graphic in details. Take in mind that the internet won't change. All the media clips will remain out there in some fashon for her kids to find when they grow up." (Bolding mine)

Nicholas' friend originally, then.....out of respect for Christine. She got to him? IMO.

Our good friend Inv had enough guts to go on this site and tell them the true facts of this case. Only to be ridiculed by some posters, especially, "Nicholas 'friend'" who responded to him with:

"I will say I don't agree with what you do. Quit your day job and do this professionally if you really want to help people and solve crimes. Part time is not good enough if you’re passionate enough about it. Also, keep people that are trying to help people's information off your blogs. Especially their home addresses/email/phone number. And quit calling them!!! For every crime you solve (if you solve any) you’re hurting and exposing many innocent people to your slandering and suspicions. You don't know even 1/10th of what’s going on. Do it professionally. This is not a Choose your own adventure story book. Its peoples lives."

I thought that this person was Nicholas' friend? Wouldn't he want to know the truth?

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

I have been following this thread started by a 'friend' of Nicholas', since Nicholas' disappearance. Many of you may have been following it as well.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/chit-chat-section/205497-friend-mia-2-kids-1-way-vanished.html

The thread's title is: "Friend, MIA". (Remember 'friend')

He says in his first post on 2/15/08:

"My buddie Nick dissappeared after work on the 13th. He had told his daughter that he would make valentines with her that night when he got home. He called his wife from work letting her know he would be coming home and told his co-worker that he was going to stop by the store on the way. Its been over 48 hours now and he is all over the news up here. Drives a 92 Toyota Paseo. Figure its a long shot, but keep your eyes open and call 911 if you hear of anything. He lives for his family, so I don't see him picking up an splitting." (Bolding mine)

Then on 2/14/09:

"Yea, she's a friend, I've know for a while. I know details but I'm not super close to the investigation... so... out of respect for her and her family I will stay silent until there is either a break in the investigation or she tells you through the media. She did share alot but didn't get too graphic in details. Take in mind that the internet won't change. All the media clips will remain out there in some fashon for her kids to find when they grow up." (Bolding mine)

Nicholas' friend originally, then.....out of respect for Christine. She got to him? IMO.

Our good friend Inv had enough guts to go on this site and tell them the true facts of this case. Only to be ridiculed by some posters, especially, "Nicholas 'friend'" who responded to him with:

"I will say I don't agree with what you do. Quit your day job and do this professionally if you really want to help people and solve crimes. Part time is not good enough if you’re passionate enough about it. Also, keep people that are trying to help people's information off your blogs. Especially their home addresses/email/phone number. And quit calling them!!! For every crime you solve (if you solve any) you’re hurting and exposing many innocent people to your slandering and suspicions. You don't know even 1/10th of what’s going on. Do it professionally. This is not a Choose your own adventure story book. Its peoples lives."

I thought that this person was Nicholas' friend? Wouldn't he want to know the truth?

IMO.
M.

I think the red section tells it all. As Nicholas and Christine's friend he knows way more then any of us. We make up might be, could have happen and then start acting like they are facts and we are so smart. This guy knows the many things we don't and seems to have contempt for most of the guess. Funny how everyone who knows them has a very different attitude then the people on the board isn't it?

He seems a bit upset over people who don't know much tell him what to think when he has the real info not the speculation. Maybe he knows what the "true" facts and finds us laughable.

[CaresForKids]

I think the red section tells it all. As Nicholas and Christine's friend he knows way more then any of us. We make up might be, could have happen and then start acting like they are facts and we are so smart. This guy knows the many things we don't and seems to have contempt for most of the guess. Funny how everyone who knows them has a very different attitude then the people on the board isn't it?

He seems a bit upset over people who don't know much tell him what to think when he has the real info not the speculation. Maybe he knows what the "true" facts and finds us laughable.

Or maybe he has just fallen prey into C's little lie trap.

[Musterion]

I think the red section tells it all. As Nicholas and Christine's friend he knows way more then any of us. We make up might be, could have happen and then start acting like they are facts and we are so smart. This guy knows the many things we don't and seems to have contempt for most of the guess. Funny how everyone who knows them has a very different attitude then the people on the board isn't it?

He seems a bit upset over people who don't know much tell him what to think when he has the real info not the speculation. Maybe he knows what the "true" facts and finds us laughable.

Funny, SD, what you bolded: "You don't know even 1/10th of what’s going on." Sounds pretty much like, " I will tell you this… you are all about 30 steps behind the police on this case."

Sunday, March 9th, 2008 in Family by Christine.

http://www.thefranciscos.com/

Sounds, IMO, that he is paraphrase parroting what Christine has said.

JMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

I think the red section tells it all. As Nicholas and Christine's friend he knows way more then any of us. We make up might be, could have happen and then start acting like they are facts and we are so smart. This guy knows the many things we don't and seems to have contempt for most of the guess. Funny how everyone who knows them has a very different attitude then the people on the board isn't it?

He seems a bit upset over people who don't know much tell him what to think when he has the real info not the speculation. Maybe he knows what the "true" facts and finds us laughable.

I expect he only knows what Christine has told him and I think truthfulness is a weak area for her.

[Musterion]

Or maybe he has just fallen prey into C's little lie trap.

What amazes me, CFK, is how quickly Nicholas' 'friend' and these other posters just, without any evidence and only Christine's word, jump to the conclusion that Nicholas did have a secret life and, seemingly, just assume Nicholas took off on his own. Especially after testifying, originally, how wonderful Nicholas was and how he adored his family.

It just astounds me.

JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I expect he only knows what Christine has told him and I think truthfulness is a weak area for her.



LOL! Cheri, you are so delicate and kind in your assessment!

JMO.
M.

[CaresForKids]

What amazes me, CFK, is how quickly Nicholas' 'friend' and these other posters just, without any evidence and only Christine's word, jump to the conclusion that Nicholas did have a secret life and, seemingly, just assume Nicholas took off on his own. Especially after testifying, originally, how wonderful Nicholas was and how he adored his family.

It just astounds me.

JMO.
M.

It's probably because of the anger he feels being "deserted" by his good friend.

[Cheri_G]

What amazes me, CFK, is how quickly Nicholas' 'friend' and these other posters just, without any evidence and only Christine's word, jump to the conclusion that Nicholas did have a secret life and, seemingly, just assume Nicholas took off on his own. Especially after testifying, originally, how wonderful Nicholas was and how he adored his family.

It just astounds me.

JMO.
M.

These are the same people who express great concern about the children's feelings should they read the stuff written about their mother in years to come, but don't seem to extend that same concern for them should they read some of the stuff that they (the friends and posters) and their mother have written regarding their father.

[SilverDove]

What amazes me, CFK, is how quickly Nicholas' 'friend' and these other posters just, without any evidence and only Christine's word, jump to the conclusion that Nicholas did have a secret life and, seemingly, just assume Nicholas took off on his own. Especially after testifying, originally, how wonderful Nicholas was and how he adored his family.

It just astounds me.

JMO.
M.

Really is funny that someone who knew him might know him better then a bunch of strangers isn't it. Might have seen little odd things they ignored until all of this happened. But yes I'm sure stranger have to know what happened much better then the people who saw what was going on before he left.

Not all that unusual for people to say all the nice things at the beginning then as they see what all is going on to let out the stuff they are hiding. But then again strangers always know better then they people who know him. Stupid of them not to listen to some stranger who comes to educate them about what really happened.

[AJandTam]

You're absolutely right, Tam. Finding out if Mrs. Fale lied might lead us to some interesting clues.

JMO.
M.

Thank you. This is how I really do see the Fale situation. It's a toss up as to whether he is, or isn't missing, and very strange that we don't know either way. Just a simple found safe would have done the trick. Ofcourse, preferably from someone other than his wife. The police or his family. Fale himself.. Something..

[AJandTam]

I think the red section tells it all. As Nicholas and Christine's friend he knows way more then any of us. We make up might be, could have happen and then start acting like they are facts and we are so smart. This guy knows the many things we don't and seems to have contempt for most of the guess. Funny how everyone who knows them has a very different attitude then the people on the board isn't it?

He seems a bit upset over people who don't know much tell him what to think when he has the real info not the speculation. Maybe he knows what the "true" facts and finds us laughable.

Hi Silver. As for the friend. I think he is male and sometimes males don't discuss life like females do, maybe that could explain things. Other ways to explain things would really depend on who this friend is, how close he really was to Nick, and/or Christine. .. Maybe good info. Maybe not.. Either way. Nick is still missing and his fate is unknown at this time.. Even if he had this crazy secret lifestyle, and he did run off. Where is he now?? That's still an important factor.

[AJandTam]

Really is funny that someone who knew him might know him better then a bunch of strangers isn't it. Might have seen little odd things they ignored until all of this happened. But yes I'm sure stranger have to know what happened much better then the people who saw what was going on before he left.

Not all that unusual for people to say all the nice things at the beginning then as they see what all is going on to let out the stuff they are hiding. But then again strangers always know better then they people who know him. Stupid of them not to listen to some stranger who comes to educate them about what really happened.

People have a tendency to hide things in their lives that might be bad or embarrassing (men in particular, they don't discuss things like women do). . ., that could have been the case w/Nick and his marriage and or a secret life. . It is also true that we can't predict what our spouses, preacher, neighbors, children, parents ect may do. In truth, no one ever really knows someone as well as they think they do.. It is also true that the closer someone is to you. The more you might miss about what goes on w/them, because you are to close to the situation. Others often can pick up on things, and have a heck of a time convincing a persons friends or family that there is a problem. WE refer to it as denial at times.. I do not know what happened to Nick. I do not know if he is dead or alive. Until Nick either resurfaces alive or his body is found. We have no real way of knowing what is going on.. As for Christine. I do believe she did raise some "redflags".. wouldn't surprise me to hear that she was infact, the one who had the secret life, not Nick. Maybe time will tell, We can only hope and pray.

[Musterion]

Really is funny that someone who knew him might know him better then a bunch of strangers isn't it. Might have seen little odd things they ignored until all of this happened. But yes I'm sure stranger have to know what happened much better then the people who saw what was going on before he left.

Not all that unusual for people to say all the nice things at the beginning then as they see what all is going on to let out the stuff they are hiding. But then again strangers always know better then they people who know him. Stupid of them not to listen to some stranger who comes to educate them about what really happened.

Good Morning, SD,

Sometimes it takes a bunch of strangers to sort out the truth.

Doesn't Nicholas deserve a voice? Is it fair to have just Christine's truth?

Nicholas is more than likely dead. No one has heard from him in over a year. There is no sign of him anywhere.

As for educating anyone about what really happened, I think, maybe Christine's actions speak for themselves. She divorced a missing person and then just over a year that he was missing, she remarried.

That speaks and educates a lot. IMO.

M.

[AJandTam]

Good Morning, SD,

Sometimes it takes a bunch of strangers to sort out the truth.

Doesn't Nicholas deserve a voice? Is it fair to have just Christine's truth?

Nicholas is more than likely dead. No one has heard from him in over a year. There is no sign of him anywhere.

As for educating anyone about what really happened, I think, maybe Christine's actions speak for themselves. She divorced a missing person and then just over a year that he was missing, she remarried.

That speaks and educates a lot. IMO.

M.

I agree w/you. Divorcing a missing person and remarrying that fast. Kind of weird. I still can't figure out how she got the divorce though.

[CC I See]

I agree w/you. Divorcing a missing person and remarrying that fast. Kind of weird. I still can't figure out how she got the divorce though.

....well, she was strongly motivated to move on with her life and divorce was the first step. Obviously, she wanted him out of her life and that was the legal way to do it and when this is a will, there is usually a way to do it.

[CaresForKids]

I agree w/you. Divorcing a missing person and remarrying that fast. Kind of weird. I still can't figure out how she got the divorce though.

These "friends" have no problem with and do not question this yet they believe and hang on every word she speaks defaming Nick, who was supposed to be their best good friend, as if she is some sort of sainted being.

[RainyNiteNTx]

These "friends" have no problem with and do not question this yet they believe and hang on every word she speaks defaming Nick, who was supposed to be their best good friend, as if she is some sort of sainted being.

With friends like that who needs enemies? I'm sure most of us can trust that we have much better friends than what Nicholas had.

[CaresForKids]

We can only hope so. :confused:

[Musterion]

Why, on the 18th of February, did Christine and Detective Holland know that Nicholas' disappearance was foul play? What made them so sure that it was at that point?

"Rinnovibodyspa says:
also his laptop and cell phone were NOT in the car and though there is no physical sign of foul play we all know, even the detective, that this is foul play. please pray.
Posted at 7:34 pm, February 18 2008 EST"

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?t ... 32&page=16

JMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Why, on the 18th of February, did Christine and Detective Holland know that Nicholas' disappearance was foul play? What made them so sure that it was at that point?

"Rinnovibodyspa says:
also his laptop and cell phone were NOT in the car and though there is no physical sign of foul play we all know, even the detective, that this is foul play. please pray.
Posted at 7:34 pm, February 18 2008 EST"

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?t ... 32&page=16

JMO.
M.

I thought we had already decided that Christine lies. So we have no idea if the detective ever said this or it is just another lie. Since Christine said it then it means nothing.

[AJandTam]

....well, she was strongly motivated to move on with her life and divorce was the first step. Obviously, she wanted him out of her life and that was the legal way to do it and when this is a will, there is usually a way to do it.

Morning CC.. I believe in the "When there a will, there is a way" type of thinking. I just feel that her activities raise a few "redflags".. IF Nick was the naughty boy she claims he is.. and how she just found out, right after he disappeared. Would make anyone just want to run out and get married again. No matter who you are, or how strong you are... Sorting out the cause and affects of what happened to you, would be bit of a process. You don't just go, ok, he was bad, NEXT...

[CaresForKids]

Morning CC.. I believe in the "When there a will, there is a way" type of thinking. I just feel that her activities raise a few "redflags".. IF Nick was the naughty boy she claims he is.. and how she just found out, right after he disappeared. Would make anyone just want to run out and get married again. No matter who you are, or how strong you are... Sorting out the cause and affects of what happened to you, would be bit of a process. You don't just go, ok, he was bad, NEXT...

Out of the frying pan and into the fryer...:scared:

[AJandTam]

Out of the frying pan and into the fryer...:scared:

I don't know anything about the new man, so no comments on him. Other than, he better watch his back. He just might not know who he is messing w/.. If I were in his family.. I'd be :scared:

[Musterion]

I thought we had already decided that Christine lies. So we have no idea if the detective ever said this or it is just another lie. Since Christine said it then it means nothing.

Hi SD,

I don't think I've stated that everything that Christine says is a lie. If I did looking at the context of the statement might be helpful.

I think I've said that we might be wary of what she says. That we can't trust everything she says. I believe we have to use discernment in what she says.

Most people who are habitual or compulsive liars may have a shred of truth in what they are saying.

I'm interested in what shred of truth there is with saying that the detective 'knows' it is foul play. That's what I'd like to understand better.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Out of the frying pan and into the fryer...:scared:

Been there, done that. It most often causes more pain for the individuals involved who are desperately trying to get on with life without healing first.

Especially children.

IMO.
M.

[AJandTam]

Been there, done that. It most often causes more pain for the individuals involved who are desperately trying to get on with life without healing first.

Especially children.

IMO.
M.

Morning Musterion. Are we still waiting?? Grrrrrrrr, hate the waiting game. I was thinking that maybe dental records would move this along, and we wouldn't have to wait however long to get DNA??

[Musterion]

Morning Musterion. Are we still waiting?? Grrrrrrrr, hate the waiting game. I was thinking that maybe dental records would move this along, and we wouldn't have to wait however long to get DNA??

Hi Tam,

I have contacted several sources and no answers yet.

Maybe they know the identity and maybe they are waiting to arrest someone in connection with the body found under the pier and/or the skull found in Lacey.

Maybe not.

IMO.
M.

[AJandTam]

Hi Tam,

I have contacted several sources and no answers yet.

Maybe they know the identity and maybe they are waiting to arrest someone in connection with the body found under the pier and/or the skull found in Lacey.

Maybe not.

IMO.
M.

Great Job Musterion, Hope you/we hear something on this body really soon. I don't know IF it is Nick or not because they made it sound like the body was a little bit older than Nick. But who knows, it very well could be.

[AJandTam]

He isnt even listed on the charly project website. :(

The WA state site I have to look see if he is listed there. A year ago he wasn't. I'm with you guys, checking in to see if there is any answer on the dna of the body they found.

Have a good weekend. I think it's really sad that anyone who previously loved someone would feel the need to trash them online and in public.
Friends, wife or otherwise. Well, look at DP tonight. In his bling. :D

Nicholas's case is still listed on AMW. It baffles me that if he is alive, how no one has noticed him by now.

Morning Bug,

I agree. This case as it is being told, does bring attention to the fact that everyone reacts differently. What others don't always understand is the fine line between coping verses emotions. Meaning, you may find out some bad news and some will go to church, some will go to the bar, some may lay in bed for days on end. However, the emotions such as humiliation, disgrace, feeling stupid, duped, ect.. factors still exist. Those are human emotional reactions verses.. acting out.. In this case, I personally felt that acting out was present but the way she acted out, was inconsistant w/emotional factors.. Does that make sense.. ??

DP falls under that category as well..

It's possible but unlikely. As these days communications, laws, and other factors limit being able to disappear w/out a trace, much harder than it used to be. I am not sure how possible it would be these days.. Seems we leave a trail somewhere w/just about anything we do..

[SilverDove]

Morning Bug,

I agree. This case as it is being told, does bring attention to the fact that everyone reacts differently. What others don't always understand is the fine line between coping verses emotions. Meaning, you may find out some bad news and some will go to church, some will go to the bar, some may lay in bed for days on end. However, the emotions such as humiliation, disgrace, feeling stupid, duped, ect.. factors still exist. Those are human emotional reactions verses.. acting out.. In this case, I personally felt that acting out was present but the way she acted out, was inconsistant w/emotional factors.. Does that make sense.. ??

DP falls under that category as well..

It's possible but unlikely. As these days communications, laws, and other factors limit being able to disappear w/out a trace, much harder than it used to be. I am not sure how possible it would be these days.. Seems we leave a trail somewhere w/just about anything we do..

We have millions of illigal aliens all working in the US many with what appear to be good documentation I'd say it is still very possible.

[AJandTam]

We have millions of illigal aliens all working in the US many with what appear to be good documentation I'd say it is still very possible.

HI Silver, LTNS. I wouldn't compare the two. A speciffic person who disappeared under odd circumstances, is a bit different than just looking for anyone working illegally. You can't really compare the two different scenario's. W/an illegal, they can stay under the radar easier because thier names aren't in any databases that others may be looking for.. nor is anyone out looking for a particular face. Now if you took an illegal, personalized him and looked for a speciffic person. . Then you could compare the two..

[SilverDove]

HI Silver, LTNS. I wouldn't compare the two. A speciffic person who disappeared under odd circumstances, is a bit different than just looking for anyone working illegally. You can't really compare the two different scenario's. W/an illegal, they can stay under the radar easier because thier names aren't in any databases that others may be looking for.. nor is anyone out looking for a particular face. Now if you took an illegal, personalized him and looked for a speciffic person. . Then you could compare the two..

Thing is that only a tiny handful of people think of him as a specific person most would just see him and think of him as part of the mass. If he picked up a fake SS# and drivers license, keeps from getting picked up for something else no one will even notice him. Especially if he is some where like California. There he would just blend in with the crowd. Now if he also has friends or even on friend who is renting the apartment, has the check book, etc and he is using his skills to work off the internet it would become even easier. For all we know he could have a new etsy and be selling his skills there and no one would even know.

So although we are looking for a specific person the world would see him as just part of the mass.

[AJandTam]

Thing is that only a tiny handful of people think of him as a specific person most would just see him and think of him as part of the mass. If he picked up a fake SS# and drivers license, keeps from getting picked up for something else no one will even notice him. Especially if he is some where like California. There he would just blend in with the crowd. Now if he also has friends or even on friend who is renting the apartment, has the check book, etc and he is using his skills to work off the internet it would become even easier. For all we know he could have a new etsy and be selling his skills there and no one would even know.

So although we are looking for a specific person the world would see him as just part of the mass.

I disagree, We have amazing communication devices now. The internet alone is a very powerful tool. Unlike the masses, his face was not only on National News, but Local news stories have been done on him. When it comes to the internet... no one knows how many may know of his case. His name and face are in LE's database as a missing person. Those factors make him more than just a face in the crowd.

As for illegal activities like fake SS numbers, drivers license ect.. That doesn't fit here. When people do abandon thier lives and run off. They don't do it like that just to get away from a crazy wife, which seems to be the extent of his major troubles. He wasnt' wanted for any major crimes like theft, murder, ect.. If Nick did this to himself. He would have taken some very drastic and illegal steps to do so.. and continues to do so. As far as i've seen, I think that would be a bit overboard for the problems he had. Now the rest of the story about what happened to his life after he was gone.. That's a very interesting story.. IMHO

[SilverDove]

I disagree, We have amazing communication devices now. The internet alone is a very powerful tool. Unlike the masses, his face was not only on National News, but Local news stories have been done on him. When it comes to the internet... no one knows how many may know of his case. His name and face are in LE's database as a missing person. Those factors make him more than just a face in the crowd.

As for illegal activities like fake SS numbers, drivers license ect.. That doesn't fit here. When people do abandon thier lives and run off. They don't do it like that just to get away from a crazy wife, which seems to be the extent of his major troubles. He wasnt' wanted for any major crimes like theft, murder, ect.. If Nick did this to himself. He would have taken some very drastic and illegal steps to do so.. and continues to do so. As far as i've seen, I think that would be a bit overboard for the problems he had. Now the rest of the story about what happened to his life after he was gone.. That's a very interesting story.. IMHO

I have to disagree that that many people have even paid attention to the fact that he is missing or even have a clue as to what he looks like. There was a missing child experiment that showed that even when it was a child who they had just seen the picture of as they walked into a mall most people didn't even notice. You might be interested in seeing it here. http://www.clickorlando.com/news/16124767/detail.html Now if they didn't even notice a child they had just seen I really can't believe that most people would notice a grown man.

As to the other part of the story well I have always believed that he took off with someone and had no desire to pay child support. I believe it even more now because of the actions or should I say lack of actions of his parents. I think they know where he is and that is why they aren't looking. I think they are helping him to keep from paying support. With the job he had and 3 children and a stay at home wife, support and maintenance would have been very expensive.

[CaresForKids]

I have to disagree that that many people have even paid attention to the fact that he is missing or even have a clue as to what he looks like. There was a missing child experiment that showed that even when it was a child who they had just seen the picture of as they walked into a mall most people didn't even notice. You might be interested in seeing it here. http://www.clickorlando.com/news/16124767/detail.html Now if they didn't even notice a child they had just seen I really can't believe that most people would notice a grown man.

As to the other part of the story well I have always believed that he took off with someone and had no desire to pay child support. I believe it even more now because of the actions or should I say lack of actions of his parents. I think they know where he is and that is why they aren't looking. I think they are helping him to keep from paying support. With the job he had and 3 children and a stay at home wife, support and maintenance would have been very expensive.

He owes nothing to C herself as far as alimony goes. There was no order of support and she can't claim it now being she remarried. He'd only owe child support and that would be calculated by a percentage of what he earns. Visitation would reduce that as well. If BC legally adopts the children, Nick wouldn't have to pay child support at all.

[SilverDove]

He owes nothing to C herself as far as alimony goes. There was no order of support and she can't claim it now being she remarried. He'd only owe child support and that would be calculated by a percentage of what he earns. Visitation would reduce that as well. If BC legally adopts the children, Nick wouldn't have to pay child support at all.

But none of that has anything to do with when he first left. Who knows maybe after the kids get adopted Nick will show up. Then he won't owe anything.

[CaresForKids]

But none of that has anything to do with when he first left. Who knows maybe after the kids get adopted Nick will show up. Then he won't owe anything.

How do you know it has nothing to do why he left? Do you know why he left? Do you know he indeed left on his own? Is that what you are saying?

Earlier, you were so sure he left to pursue his "secret life" at the wetspot and now you believe he left to get out of paying alimony and support?

[SilverDove]

How do you know it has nothing to do why he left? Do you know why he left? Do you know he indeed left on his own? Is that what you are saying?

Earlier, you were so sure he left to pursue his "secret life" at the wetspot and now you believe he left to get out of paying alimony and support?

And you wanted him to come live with you and play video games with you. Guess everyone has their own ideas about what happened. Also there is nothing that would stop him from hanging at the wetspot, then taking off with someone and hiding out to avoid paying support. I really find it hard to believe that he left so that Christine could divorce him and find someone else to marry as his original reason for leaving but who knows you might be right that he did it that way. So at the time he left he would have believed that he would have to pay support and maintenance if they got a divorce.

[CaresForKids]

And you wanted him to come live with you and play video games with you. Guess everyone has their own ideas about what happened. Also there is nothing that would stop him from hanging at the wetspot, then taking off with someone and hiding out to avoid paying support. I really find it hard to believe that he left so that Christine could divorce him and find someone else to marry as his original reason for leaving but who knows you might be right that he did it that way. So at the time he left he would have believed that he would have to pay support and maintenance if they got a divorce.

You truly do not read my posts, do you? I said he come stay here until he got his act together...I did not want him to "live" with me. So the video game components are a plus...gives him something to do rather than sit and stare at a blank wall. Big deal...you wanted to play with him at the Wet Spot. At least I was being a bit more realistic and mature about the whole situation.

I really find it hard to believe that he left so that Christine could divorce him and find someone else to marry as his original reason for leaving but who knows you might be right that he did it that way.

Where exactly did I post this theory? I have NEVER stated this whatsoever. It's good for you to have and use an imagination but you need to hone that skill into something more tangible and truthful. :closedeyes:

[SilverDove]

You truly do not read my posts, do you? I said he come stay here until he got his act together...I did not want him to "live" with me. So the video game components are a plus...gives him something to do rather than sit and stare at a blank wall. Big deal...you wanted to play with him at the Wet Spot. At least I was being a bit more realistic and mature about the whole situation.



Where exactly did I post this theory? I have NEVER stated this whatsoever. It's good for you to have and use an imagination but you need to hone that skill into something more tangible and truthful. :closedeyes:

And you are the only one here who seems to have talked to him. You are the one who knows he likes to be called Nick. You are the one who has hinted at knowing more then you have said. And you know he is sitting and staring at a blank wall? You to seem to have a good use of imagination, too, or is it? hmmm:scared:

[CaresForKids]

And you are the only one here who seems to have talked to him. You are the one who knows he likes to be called Nick. You are the one who has hinted at knowing more then you have said. And you know he is sitting and staring at a blank wall? You to seem to have a good use of imagination, too, or is it? hmmm:scared:

LMAO! Do you need everything fully explained, sweetness? Better than sitting staring at a blank wall if he came and stayed here and had nothing else to do. I have never hinted at knowing more than I have said, you erroneously interpreted my posts that way with your wild eyed imagination. :tonguewag:

Yes I have "spoken" with him in chat, dozens of people did that day. Should we all have ignored him as being the new kid on the block? Yes I did ask if I could call him Nick but I NEVER stated he said he liked to be called by that name. I said ~I~ liked that name because it was my Grampa's. How many times must I explain all this to you? Geez woman (or man), whatever you are...get a grip! :rolleyes:

[SilverDove]

LMAO! Do you need everything fully explained, sweetness? Better than sitting staring at a blank wall if he came and stayed here and had nothing else to do. I have never hinted at knowing more than I have said, you erroneously interpreted my posts that way with your wild eyed imagination. :tonguewag:

Yes I have "spoken" with him in chat, dozens of people did that day. Should we all have ignored him as being the new kid on the block? Yes I did ask if I could call him Nick but I NEVER stated he said he liked to be called by that name. I said ~I~ liked that name because it was my Grampa's. How many times must I explain all this to you? Geez woman (or man), whatever you are...get a grip! :rolleyes:

But I still don't know how you know he is sitting and staring at a blank wall or is that just your imagination? You seem to have a better imagination then a lot of people yourself. :laugh:

[RainyNiteNTx]

But I still don't know how you know he is sitting and staring at a blank wall or is that just your imagination? You seem to have a better imagination then a lot of people yourself. :laugh:


Are you deliberately trying to misconstrue Care's posts or do you truly not understand what she is saying? She didn't say he was sitting and staring at a blank wall - she said it would be better than sitting and staring at a blank wall - a figure of speech. For some reason, Care's extended hand to Nicholas sure has caused you and some others grief, but no amount of care or concern or money or support or anything extended to Christine was a problem at all. And to think, Nicholas is the victim in this case - the one missing under suspicious circumstances.:confused:

[Musterion]

Are you deliberately trying to misconstrue Care's posts or do you truly not understand what she is saying? She didn't say he was sitting and staring at a blank wall - she said it would be better than sitting and staring at a blank wall - a figure of speech. For some reason, Care's extended hand to Nicholas sure has caused you and some others grief, but no amount of care or concern or money or support or anything extended to Christine was a problem at all. And to think, Nicholas is the victim in this case - the one missing under suspicious circumstances.:confused:

Hi Rainy,

I am trying, very hard, to understand why one person who publicly stated she would give a missing person, a person who may have left on their own and be confused, scared or frightened, a place to rest and find compassion, a place to sort things out, is accused of ulterior motives. While the missing person's wife can have many offer her money, a place to live and protective sympathy, AND remarry within fourteen months of his disappearance without question!!!

What about Nicholas? How can people not care about Nicholas, the missing person?

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hi Rainy,

I am trying, very hard, to understand why one person who publicly stated she would give a missing person, a person who may have left on their own and be confused, scared or frightened, a place to rest and find compassion, a place to sort things out, is accused of ulterior motives. While the missing person's wife can have many offer her money, a place to live and protective sympathy, AND remarry within fourteen months of his disappearance without question!!!

What about Nicholas? How can people not care about Nicholas, the missing person?

IMO.
M.

Hey M - I don't know the answer to your question - in fact I've never understood it at all. I think one of the reasons people rallied around Christine is because Christine asked. She asked for all of the things you mention in your post. Nicholas could not ask as he is missing.

[Musterion]

I have to disagree that that many people have even paid attention to the fact that he is missing or even have a clue as to what he looks like. There was a missing child experiment that showed that even when it was a child who they had just seen the picture of as they walked into a mall most people didn't even notice. You might be interested in seeing it here. http://www.clickorlando.com/news/16124767/detail.html Now if they didn't even notice a child they had just seen I really can't believe that most people would notice a grown man.

As to the other part of the story well I have always believed that he took off with someone and had no desire to pay child support. I believe it even more now because of the actions or should I say lack of actions of his parents. I think they know where he is and that is why they aren't looking. I think they are helping him to keep from paying support. With the job he had and 3 children and a stay at home wife, support and maintenance would have been very expensive.

SD,

You know I love ya. But, you would type your fingers to the bone chastising me or anyone else saying things that have not one shred of evidence, even if it is only opinion!

How and why and where do you get that Nicholas' parents know where he is and are covering up for him so he won't have to pay child support?

JMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

SD,

You know I love ya. But, you would type your fingers to the bone chastising me or anyone else saying things that have not one shred of evidence, even if it is only opinion!

How and why and where do you get that Nicholas' parents know where he is and are covering up for him so he won't have to pay child support?

JMO.
M.

I know - I just shook my head at that post. Of course that seed was planted by "seeking truth" that NF's parents knew where he was - blah blah blah.

[CaresForKids]

But I still don't know how you know he is sitting and staring at a blank wall or is that just your imagination? You seem to have a better imagination then a lot of people yourself. :laugh:

:punch:

OI VEY! Rainy explained it already...enough said. If you still don't get it, you never will.

[CaresForKids]

Hi Rainy,

I am trying, very hard, to understand why one person who publicly stated she would give a missing person, a person who may have left on their own and be confused, scared or frightened, a place to rest and find compassion, a place to sort things out, is accused of ulterior motives. While the missing person's wife can have many offer her money, a place to live and protective sympathy, AND remarry within fourteen months of his disappearance without question!!!

What about Nicholas? How can people not care about Nicholas, the missing person?

IMO.
M.

Thank you M! That's all I intended was to offer him a place to heal his soul and figure out how to go about squaring himself away with his kids. Whether he was "asked" to leave or he left on his own, it does not matter to me at this point. His well being is all that matters now.

[MystryPhobia]

How do you know it has nothing to do why he left? Do you know why he left? Do you know he indeed left on his own? Is that what you are saying?

Earlier, you were so sure he left to pursue his "secret life" at the wetspot and now you believe he left to get out of paying alimony and support?

Why do you keep mentioning the Wet Spot and SD in the same sentence?

All she did was bring the place to the attention of posters here. She never said that she went there or that she wanted to meet Nicholas there. That really isn't fair.. is it? Kinda like bringing up the social security stuff.. with the reward money.

This is why I haven't been coming around this thread.. it is just getting snippy, rude and outright mean to posters that don't agree. How is any of this going to help find Nicholas?

Bottom line IMO.. EVERY theory should be considered and respected since none of us know what truly happened to Nicholas.

I am sorry but if he is alive and left his family then IMO what he needs is a swift kick in the butt for what he has put his family and friends through. What an awful thing to do. We can show compassion for what someone is going through without making it okay.

While we can understand you wanting to give him a place to rest and clear his head.. etc.. for those of us that think that he may have abandoned his children.. it is hard to think that he should be treated with kid gloves and given a warm safe place to hide out from reality. I think that is the distinction that we didn't understand about it.

[MystryPhobia]

Thank you M! That's all I intended was to offer him a place to heal his soul and figure out how to go about squaring himself away with his kids. Whether he was "asked" to leave or he left on his own, it does not matter to me at this point. His well being is all that matters now.
Hopefully, if you are offering people places to heal their soul.. and if he left on his own.. that invitation would be extended to those souls that were hurt by him abandoning them.

[CaresForKids]

Hopefully, if you are offering people places to heal their soul.. and if he left on his own.. that invitation would be extended to those souls that were hurt by him abandoning them.

Of course his children can come here and his mom, dad and sisters. But not until we determine what exactly happened.

[CaresForKids]

Why do you keep mentioning the Wet Spot and SD in the same sentence?

All she did was bring the place to the attention of posters here. She never said that she went there or that she wanted to meet Nicholas there. That really isn't fair.. is it? Kinda like bringing up the social security stuff.. with the reward money.

This is why I haven't been coming around this thread.. it is just getting snippy, rude and outright mean to posters that don't agree. How is any of this going to help find Nicholas?

Bottom line IMO.. EVERY theory should be considered and respected since none of us know what truly happened to Nicholas.

I am sorry but if he is alive and left his family then IMO what he needs is a swift kick in the butt for what he has put his family and friends through. What an awful thing to do. We can show compassion for what someone is going through without making it okay.

While we can understand you wanting to give him a place to rest and clear his head.. etc.. for those of us that think that he may have abandoned his children.. it is hard to think that he should be treated with kid gloves and given a warm safe place to hide out from reality. I think that is the distinction that we didn't understand about it.

It doesn't matter who understands my wanting to help Nick or not. That I know what I am doing is all I care about and Nick's well being. That you want to persecute him with prejudice is your own prerogative. SD can take care of herself well enough and if she cannot take the heat, she should not dish it out. I can't help the sick minded who want to believe my intent in helping Nick is more than just a place to get his act together before I help him get back together with his kids and family. I would not be giving him a place to "hide out" IF he did indeed walk out on his own as he would need to face up to his misdeed BUT before any of that happens, he deserves to voice his own side of the story and be heard. We don't know what happened and I highly doubt C was all so innocent in the reasoning behind his disappearance.

[MystryPhobia]

It doesn't matter who understands my wanting to help Nick or not. That I know what I am doing is all I care about and Nick's well being. That you want to persecute him with prejudice is your own prerogative. SD can take care of herself well enough and if she cannot take the heat, she should not dish it out. I can't help the sick minded who want to believe my intent in helping Nick is more than just a place to get his act together before I help him get back together with his kids and family. I would not be giving him a place to "hide out" IF he did indeed walk out on his own as he would need to face up to his misdeed BUT before any of that happens, he deserves to voice his own side of the story and be heard. We don't know what happened and I highly doubt C was all so innocent in the reasoning behind his disappearance.

Yes.. of course.. it all comes down to your feelings for Christine. He deserves the respect that any other human being deserves.. including Christine. You really need to remember that you don't know what happened.. and I have to wonder if Nicholas wouldn't be offended by the mere fact that so many thought of him as a needy man that is unable to speak or stand up for himself against a woman.

I am not persecuting ANYONE. I am just keeping an open mind. We do not know know what happened to him. He could be dead but he could be alive. He may not have left on his own but he may have chose to. It could go either way!

[CaresForKids]

Yes.. of course.. it all comes down to your feelings for Christine. He deserves the respect that any other human being deserves.. including Christine. You really need to remember that you don't know what happened.. and I have to wonder if Nicholas wouldn't be offended by the mere fact that so many thought of him as a needy man that is unable to speak or stand up for himself against a woman.

I am not persecuting ANYONE. I am just keeping an open mind. We do not know know what happened to him. He could be dead but he could be alive. He may not have left on his own but he may have chose to. It could go either way!

It has nothing to do with my feelings for C. She's obviously doing very well for herself and has all the help she needs. She's been heard, loud and clear...Nick deserves the same. Perhaps Nick does not need any help and is why he has not answered my call to help. Perhaps he is alive and well and onto a new life...perhaps it is his skull and bones they found in that area behind the school. You also need to remember you too do not know what happened. I only want to give Nick a place to clear it all up without prejudice...sorry you cannot see the forest for the trees.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Yes.. of course.. it all comes down to your feelings for Christine. He deserves the respect that any other human being deserves.. including Christine. You really need to remember that you don't know what happened.. and I have to wonder if Nicholas wouldn't be offended by the mere fact that so many thought of him as a needy man that is unable to speak or stand up for himself against a woman.

I am not persecuting ANYONE. I am just keeping an open mind. We do not know know what happened to him. He could be dead but he could be alive. He may not have left on his own but he may have chose to. It could go either way!

Hey MP - no, we don't know what happened. What we do know is that Nicholas is listed as missing under suspicious circumstances. The rest is sheer speculation - that he is living it up in another country or another state, living a sordid life....all put out there by his ex-wife. I wondered what her agenda was and now IMO it is very clear what her agenda was. JMO

[AJandTam]

I have to disagree that that many people have even paid attention to the fact that he is missing or even have a clue as to what he looks like. There was a missing child experiment that showed that even when it was a child who they had just seen the picture of as they walked into a mall most people didn't even notice. You might be interested in seeing it here. http://www.clickorlando.com/news/16124767/detail.html Now if they didn't even notice a child they had just seen I really can't believe that most people would notice a grown man.

As to the other part of the story well I have always believed that he took off with someone and had no desire to pay child support. I believe it even more now because of the actions or should I say lack of actions of his parents. I think they know where he is and that is why they aren't looking. I think they are helping him to keep from paying support. With the job he had and 3 children and a stay at home wife, support and maintenance would have been very expensive.

The posters and putting someones face out there is not necessarily designed for strangers to notice strangers. The point of it, is so that people who KNOW a person or has contact w/a person, see's the photo and says.. Oh, I know that guy. People are looking for him.. If he is out there somewhere. Someone sees his face regularly..

As for Child support. You can hide from that for a while..but not forever. They can come after you for child support long after your child is grown and gone. I know people w/very grown children who have gotten bit in the behind on that one.

[MystryPhobia]

It has nothing to do with my feelings for C. She's obviously doing very well for herself and has all the help she needs. She's been heard, loud and clear...Nick deserves the same. Perhaps Nick does not need any help and is why he has not answered my call to help. Perhaps he is alive and well and onto a new life...perhaps it is his skull and bones they found in that area behind the school. You also need to remember you too do not know what happened. I only want to give Nick a place to clear it all up without prejudice...sorry you cannot see the forest for the trees.
Please don't tell me what I can and cannot see. Anything people say here can be twisted to suit anyone's agenda. We have all seen that happen.

I don't know what happened. I admit to going back and forth about what I think happened. But.. at the end of the day.. no matter what I think happened.. doesn't change what really DID happen.

You don't know that he didn't abandon his children.. just like I don't know that Christine didn't kill him. IMO there a valid points to support either theory. You, yourself have said multiple times that you think he may have left, for whatever reason. Are you prepared for that reason to be something other than Christine made his life miserable and he had to run away? Are you prepared for him to say that he made a huge mistake and loves Christine and his children but just didn't know what to do and felt that leaving was the only way? All things being equal.. this could be the case! We have seen NO WHERE where Nichlolas showed anything but that he loved his wife.

If your husband abandoned you and your children.. I would hold him to the same standard that I would hold Nicholas to. I don't know Nicholas. I have no stake (other than the obvious of following this case, like everyone here) in whether he is alive or dead. Just as I would have no stake in whether yours left you or not... but I would still feel compassion for you and what that had done to you and your children. I wouldn't provide excuses for your loved one.. nor a places where he could hide out. I would, of course, extend a hand to him if he needed help in getting back on his feet and figuring things out.

Nicholas was and is not a saint. He is no better.. nor worse than you, me or dare I say.. Christine.

[MystryPhobia]

Hey MP - no, we don't know what happened. What we do know is that Nicholas is listed as missing under suspicious circumstances. The rest is sheer speculation - that he is living it up in another country or another state, living a sordid life....all put out there by his ex-wife. I wondered what her agenda was and now IMO it is very clear what her agenda was. JMO

Hi Rainy.. hope you had a great Mother's Day!

Let's take what Christine has said completely out of the equation. I understand the point that some are making that she put things out there or caused things to be found that made Nicholas look bad.. for her own reasons. So, lets not even consider any of that. IMO.. a good case can be made that while LE may not know what happened to Nicholas.. they are leaning towards him walking away.

I am not saying this is what happened. I am just trying to prove the point that you can take either side and make a legitimant case for it.. here on the boards. Since none of us know for sure.. both schools of thought should be respected.. because either could be true.

Take what is said by Det. H and Sgt. U, who know more than we do. Their quotes in blue

They said that they wouldn't be searching the lakes around FW

This is because we have no reason to believe his body may be in any of those lakes……or that he is even dead at all!

At this point we have absolutely no evidence that would lead us to believe he was the victim of foul play. No physical evidence, no lifestyle indications, and no associations that would lead us to believe he was a victim.

Did he leave voluntarily? Perhaps. Information has come to light that he was keeping some secrets from his wife, and she has now declined to do any further media interviews.

No indication of foul play or that he is dead at all! but "perhaps" he left on his own.

We have no reason to believe Christine Francisco had anything to do with her husband’s disappearance, or knew in advance that we was going to disappear.

Therefore, IF he disappeared as a result of foul play……or IF he disappeared voluntarily, that doesn’t change the fact his family ended up with financial problems.
He states that they do not believe that Christine had anything to do with the disappearance.

Yes it’s a shame that some people have turned on Christine and accused her of things that the Sheriff's Office do not believe is true.

What is true is that there is not a shred of evidence that would indicate foul play.

There is also no evidence that would indicate he left voluntarily.

I have said there is evidence of certain activities (not illegal) that Nicholas was involved in and Christine was not aware of those. However in many relationships that can be the case, and doesn’t positively validate one theory or another.

Again, states that they (veteran detectives) do not believe that she was involved and he again states no evidence of foul play or in his words "not a shred of evidence of foul play".. but does say again, that there was "certain activities" that he was involved in.

Sorry XXXXXXX, but the information I released in an e-mail didn’t come from you. Or more accurately, it came from another source as well…specifically the case detective. This was a calculated decision on our part to squelch some of the public speculation. If asked by Christine if that information came from you, please feel free to say it didn’t, as I was aware of what was going on with Nicolas before you e-mailed me. I just hadn’t released that yet.

What did HO tell the detective about? About the secret life that had to do with meeting people for sexual activities. His response.. I was aware of what was going on with Nicholas before you emailed me.

Sgt. U. on 6/10/08:"There is not an active investigation per se, but we follow up on tips."

There is not an active investigation?? Why?

Yes that is exactly correct. There was no indication whatsoever of foul play. After a background investigation of Nicholas, there were no indicators that he might become the victim of foul play. Finally, there is also nothing to indicate he may have gone missing voluntarily, other than some "stuff" that his wife was not aware of.

So where in the world is Nicholas Francisco? We don't know......



"No indication whatsover of foul play". Nothing to indicate he may have gone missing voluntarily.. except the "stuff" that his wife was not away of? He again says that they do not believe she knew anything but again eludes to a secret life.

Det. Holland

What is the source of the "secret life" information? Did Christine inform LE? Did someone else, if so who - not who as in giving us names, but a "reliable source" etc.? Or was it based on information that was discovered through your investigation? Discovered by me

In a question from Cheri about where the info about the phone call at 4:47 and the $54 withdrawal came from.. he said I’m the originator of that info


Christine is NOT the source of any of this information. Like I have said.. someone could take the same information.. out on the internet and put together a post.. and M has.. that lays out intelligent reasons for people to question and be skeptical of Christine.. Why is it that everytime any of what I posted is brought up.. we are scolded and questioned for only believing what Christine (who is POI to some) has "fed us" and told that we don't care anything about Nicholas.. except to defame his good name. That isn't even true or fair IMO.

Everyone thinks that Christine getting married proves something about what she knows.. IMO.. as someone who has spoken to Christine.. if Nicholas had died of some natural cause.. or divorced her a year ago.. I think she would have still gotten married this early after. I think she is just the type of person that needs to be in a relationship. My best friend died when I was 23. Her husband had another woman living with him a little over a month later. I didn't understand and was very hurt about it at the time, how he could do that if he had loved her.. but the truth was.. it didn't mean he didn't love her.. he just didn't know how to be alone. I think Christine is the same way.

[MystryPhobia]

The posters and putting someones face out there is not necessarily designed for strangers to notice strangers. The point of it, is so that people who KNOW a person or has contact w/a person, see's the photo and says.. Oh, I know that guy. People are looking for him.. If he is out there somewhere. Someone sees his face regularly..

As for Child support. You can hide from that for a while..but not forever. They can come after you for child support long after your child is grown and gone. I know people w/very grown children who have gotten bit in the behind on that one.

But SD is right, in that, at this point Nicholas could walk down any city street and nobody would know him or question who he was. Most likely.. they could see a missing person poster on a door.. walk inside and the person could be in there and they still wouldn't recognize them. Like she stated.. they have done experiments with this same thing and as sad as it is.. the majority don't pay that close of attention.

I often wonder if, even after all of us seeing his photo and being so aware of him, wouldn't recognize him if he walked beside us at the grocery store. I photo of someone is so different than seeing them IRL. I am sure we all hope that wouldn't be the case, and we would, and some will adamantly claim that they would know without a doubt. But.. there is really no way of knowing and history would say it wasn't true.

Classic example of this was Dylan and Shasta Groene. My parents live in St. Regis MT.. where the camp was that JD took them too. The faces of those two children were EVERYWHERE.. you could not go anywhere without seeing them.. hearing about them.. etc. There were missing person flyers in St. Regis since it is right over the border on I90 from Coeur d'Alene ID. St. Regis is very small.. a little grocery store, motel, restaurant/gas station/casino, school, burger place and post office all in about a block. JD took them to the burger place when they went into town. The waitress at the burger place had seen the pictures.. knew of the abduction.. but didn't put the faces with the real individuals... even after they had left and with their faces continually put on the news.. she never connected the two. Only after the GPS on his vehicle.. after he was caught, proved that they were there did she realize what had happened. She had a nervous breakdown.. attemped suicide after realizing it... but, I think it just goes to show that you just never know if people are going to make the connection.

[Cheri_G]

**snipped**
Det. Holland

What is the source of the "secret life" information? Did Christine inform LE? Did someone else, if so who - not who as in giving us names, but a "reliable source" etc.? Or was it based on information that was discovered through your investigation? Discovered by me

In a question from Cheri about where the info about the phone call at 4:47 and the $54 withdrawal came from.. he said I’m the originator of that info


Christine is NOT the source of any of this information. Like I have said..

For the record, Det. Holland did not say what the "secret life" was. What I shared was not the only correspondance I had with him. I can assure you that he would not elaborate on this one way or another unless he felt that doing so would benefit his investigation.

"Need to know" and "want to know"... that's what he told me. "Need" he shares "want" he does not.

He also does not say how he discovered the info which means he could have "discovered" it from Christine telling him.

He did confirm the phone call on Nick's cell phone, though he didn't say if it was Nick calling someone or someone calling him. And he did confirm the withdrawl, an amount which is not enough to go far on if Nick was planning to take off.

[CaresForKids]

Please don't tell me what I can and cannot see. Anything people say here can be twisted to suit anyone's agenda. We have all seen that happen.

I don't know what happened. I admit to going back and forth about what I think happened. But.. at the end of the day.. no matter what I think happened.. doesn't change what really DID happen.

You don't know that he didn't abandon his children.. just like I don't know that Christine didn't kill him. IMO there a valid points to support either theory. You, yourself have said multiple times that you think he may have left, for whatever reason. Are you prepared for that reason to be something other than Christine made his life miserable and he had to run away? Are you prepared for him to say that he made a huge mistake and loves Christine and his children but just didn't know what to do and felt that leaving was the only way? All things being equal.. this could be the case! We have seen NO WHERE where Nichlolas showed anything but that he loved his wife.

If your husband abandoned you and your children.. I would hold him to the same standard that I would hold Nicholas to. I don't know Nicholas. I have no stake (other than the obvious of following this case, like everyone here) in whether he is alive or dead. Just as I would have no stake in whether yours left you or not... but I would still feel compassion for you and what that had done to you and your children. I wouldn't provide excuses for your loved one.. nor a places where he could hide out. I would, of course, extend a hand to him if he needed help in getting back on his feet and figuring things out.

Nicholas was and is not a saint. He is no better.. nor worse than you, me or dare I say.. Christine.

You STILL DON'T get it. I am NOT offering him a place to hide out!! You obviously are blindsighted by something if aint the trees from the forest!

I also KNOW he is no saint. I will reiterate ONCE AGAIN for those who are hard of understanding. I am offering Nick a place to come and give his side of the story to someone with an OPEN MIND not hide him out! I will help him fix whatever is troubling him or whatever trouble he caused IF he so in fact left/abandonded his family willfully and purposefully. IF he left after being told to or forcefully, I would help him to get visitation with his children and back to his birth family. IF he is dead and is found, I would hope to help get him a proper burial with the proper memorial service that he deserves. An officer from my former department is a psychologist as well and is ready and on stand by to help should Nick take up my offer.

[CaresForKids]

And yes, I do know how there are those who would like to twist and misconstrue what is being said here to fit their own agendas...you've been doing that rather well with my words all along. :angry:

[MystryPhobia]

You STILL DON'T get it. I am NOT offering him a place to hide out!! You obviously are blindsighted by something if aint the trees from the forest!

I also KNOW he is no saint. I will reiterate ONCE AGAIN for those who are hard of understanding. I am offering Nick a place to come and give his side of the story to someone with an OPEN MIND not hide him out! I will help him fix whatever is troubling him or whatever trouble he caused IF he so in fact left/abandonded his family willfully and purposefully. IF he left after being told to or forcefully, I would help him to get visitation with his children and back to his birth family. IF he is dead and is found, I would hope to help get him a proper burial with the proper memorial service that he deserves. An officer from my former department is a psychologist as well and is ready and on stand by to help should Nick take up my offer.

Geesh.. again.. not talking about YOU. I was speaking in general. Not everything is about you. As I have stated already, I misinterpreted what you said and apologized!

[MystryPhobia]

For the record, Det. Holland did not say what the "secret life" was. What I shared was not the only correspondance I had with him. I can assure you that he would not elaborate on this one way or another unless he felt that doing so would benefit his investigation.

"Need to know" and "want to know"... that's what he told me. "Need" he shares "want" he does not.

He also does not say how he discovered the info which means he could have "discovered" it from Christine telling him.

He did confirm the phone call on Nick's cell phone, though he didn't say if it was Nick calling someone or someone calling him. And he did confirm the withdrawl, an amount which is not enough to go far on if Nick was planning to take off.

Who cares if it came from Christine or not? (Even though.. I know for a fact that it did NOT come from her. HE FOUND IT and brought it to her attention. She REFUSED to believe it. Which is why when he finally said that she is now saying publically that there was secret life, it makes sense because she was adamant that it was not true.. until he brought her more than she could just ignore.)You don't think a detective with 20+ years of experience is intelligent enough to not just take the word of someone that could twist things to their agenda??

[MystryPhobia]

And yes, I do know how there are those who would like to twist and misconstrue what is being said here to fit their own agendas...you've been doing that rather well with my words all along. :angry:

Funny CFK... since I have no agenda except to find the truth and to block those that are blindsided by their hatred for Christine. You have blinders on and refuse to see the whole picture. That is how I see it and as long as you refuse to let us talk about ALL OF IT.. both sides.. without you getting all twittered and trying to scare us off with your rude and nasty responses to all of those that don't agree with every word you say... then I will continue to put the other side out there.

I am twisting nothing. I have FACTS to back up everything that I say. Where are your facts? A gut instinct isn't fact!

[Cheri_G]

Who cares if it came from Christine or not? (Even though.. I know for a fact that it did NOT come from her. HE FOUND IT and brought it to her attention. She REFUSED to believe it. Which is why when he finally said that she is now saying publically that there was secret life, it makes sense because she was adamant that it was not true.. until he brought her more than she could just ignore.)You don't think a detective with 20+ years of experience is intelligent enough to not just take the word of someone that could twist things to their agenda??

You know for a fact Det. Holland told Christine that Nick was leading a secret sex life? Were you present when he told her or did he tell you this in an email?

Detective Holland never made a comment about Christine "now saying publically that there was a secret life". Sgt. Urquhart said something to that effect but never said that she was repeating information she learned from LE.

I do think that Det. Holland is intelligent enough not to take the word of someone who may twist things to fit their own agenda which is why I think it's relevant that he has never confirmed anything other than the fact that there was a call on Nick's cell phone that afternoon and that he made a withdrawl from an account Christine did not know about.

I have never seen a statement by anyone from KCSO or even a "source close to the investigation" confirming that the secret life as defined by Christine was discovered by LE.

[CaresForKids]

Funny CFK... since I have no agenda except to find the truth and to block those that are blindsided by their hatred for Christine. You have blinders on and refuse to see the whole picture. That is how I see it and as long as you refuse to let us talk about ALL OF IT.. both sides.. without you getting all twittered and trying to scare us off with your rude and nasty responses to all of those that don't agree with every word you say... then I will continue to put the other side out there.

I am twisting nothing. I have FACTS to back up everything that I say. Where are your facts? A gut instinct isn't fact!

NEVER said I hated C. You inserted that into my posts with your own misinterpretation and miscontruing what I've said. If anyone is being rude and nasty, it is YOU. You ASSume I want to help Nick for reasons other than just to help. C has gotten help and has done just fine for herself but this isn't about her. C is not the one missing nor is anyone running around defaming her all over the media in her absence. My facts are NICK IS MISSING AND NO ONE KNOWS WHY. He deserves to be found whether he left by himself or was forced to leave. He deserves to have his side be heard whether he left on his own or was forced to leave. C divorced him...she no longer has any rights over him. You can coddle her and be manipulated by her all you want. I don't choose to and that's just too bad if you cannot accept that. She's moved on and has all but forgotten her promise to find the missing man who was once her lover, husband and father of her children. I don't need nor have to have sympathy for her. I was through with that once she started lying to and bashing those trying to help her. I don't play like that.

[MystryPhobia]

NEVER said I hated C. You inserted that into my posts with your own misinterpretation and miscontruing what I've said. If anyone is being rude and nasty, it is YOU. You ASSume I want to help Nick for reasons other than just to help. C has gotten help and has done just fine for herself but this isn't about her. C is not the one missing nor is anyone running around defaming her all over the media in her absence. My facts are NICK IS MISSING AND NO ONE KNOWS WHY. He deserves to be found whether he left by himself or was forced to leave. He deserves to have his side be heard whether he left on his own or was forced to leave. C divorced him...she no longer has any rights over him. You can coddle her and be manipulated by her all you want. I don't choose to and that's just too bad if you cannot accept that. She's moved on and has all but forgotten her promise to find the missing man who was once her lover, husband and father of her children. I don't need nor have to have sympathy for her. I was through with that once she started lying to and bashing those trying to help her. I don't play like that.


I try very hard to be respectful in my posts even though other people may not agree with me. I know very well that this could go either way and I will be able to stand behind everything that I have said.. without thinking about it. While I am not perfect.. when I am wrong or have done something to someone or said something to someone.. I apologize. I would NEVER use words and bold or capitalize part of a word to say something rude in a post without having to say it. But.. you get away with that and far more. Why? Why argue about it? What do you have to gain by putting others down and being outright rude to them? Can't the truth be that we don't know and anything could be possible?? You say you have no feelings for Christine and yet you go on to slam her through your entire post. Your post are hypocrisy at its greatest. We should believe nothing about Nicholas and everything about Christine. We should disregard anything we are told negative about Nicholas and believe everything about Christine. We should be compassionate and care and fight for Nicholas but we should think the worse of Christine. Nicholas could have abandoned his family and IMO IF he did that.. then that says alot about the person that he was versus the person that he portrayed himself to be. Nobody has said that he doesn't deserve respect. The facts are the facts and his truth is his truth. I did not make it so. You did not make it so. Christine did not make it so. I am only here to say that I believe it to be so.. and that it could have something to do with why he disappeared.

[SilverDove]

Please stop. In Dets statement he himself says there were
NO LIFESTYLES INDICATIONS!

Now. We cannot, and should not be taking the word of a blogger or a wife, for that matter in the case of a missing person. Only
ONLY LE, and what they release to the public is the best information to go on.

Anyone worth their salt following or enduring an investigation knows that:
What family says goes in one file, what friends say in another, what the spouse says all in it's own file.

If this case were gender reversed you would see DPs action or there abouts.

I want to add, that for those who think that NF would want to "come back to his wife and kids" after (IF and I say IF lightly) he did leave of his own accord?
Highly unlikely, a pipedream actually. Rarely would that happen even though I've lived through the worst of something like that. So please bare that in mind: IF he left of his own accord, he isn't going to need a place to stay in order to "go back" to a situation he most likely found intolerable.

And I do believe if he is alive, he found his situation, INTOLERABLE.
Until you live a life where a situation is so intolerable, no matter who your leaving hurts, you go into survival mode. You save yourself. There is nothing to give children or anyone else unless you take care of yourself first. If you are living a lie, in any way....well then.

I do not believe the rumors of a "secret life" because LE said there were
NO LIFESTYLE INDICATORS of anykind. Where is Nicholas? I don't know but I also believe that anyone who loved art if he really did, would have come out by now to say Hey that is my stuff, I CR it, please dont post it, use it, copy it whatever.

I feel badly for those involved in this case because I do know how much this situation hurts. But I also know how much growth can come from a lifetrial such as this. My situation came out totally different.
No one, a loved one, is missing.

And his spouses behavior has not been the behavior of a loving spouse.
A loving spouse, would have still been in the home, crying into her sheets at night because the love of her life, father of her children, was missing and gone. Even a year later.

No, I am sorry. If Nicholas made a clean break, he must have a new ID new SS number and a new Identity. He had some worldly friends, and a HQ in London. It's not completely out of the question. What I doubt and what seems out of the question is that there was LOVE real LOVE there.
Because of the actions taken so soon after Feb 13, 1am that night. Too many lies, too many things said online in print and too many attempts to back track. A LOT of attempts actually. Some that we witnessed live online. Changing profiles, pictures, worrying about hair, makeup, housing, everything it seemed except for Nicholas and his well being.

:( If he left he left for reasons, reasons that were squashing him. But I don't think he "left" of his own accord. I'd like to be convinced however, I'd like him to make a short statement, to LE to close his case, he is alive and want's privacy. That's all he needs to do.

I'm sorry but the detective said there were NO LIFESTYLE INDICATORS that would lead them to believe he was a victim. NOT that there were NO LIFESTYLE INDICATORS of any kind. There is a very big difference between them not leading to them thinking he was a victim and none at all.

The very same email said "Information has come to light that he was keeping some secrets from his wife" so since they have always been very coy about what those secrets were it maybe that they were about lifestyle but not that would lead him to be a victim.

[elf999]

You certainly know hypocrisy and are at it's finest.

You just don't read my posts do you? If you did, you'd have read I said he deserves to be able to tell his side. I NEVER said not to believe he did any of these things C has gone around claiming he's done. I don't care what you or she believe happened or did not happen...it's not about you or your feelings or what you perceive to be facts. It's also not about me or my feelings or what I perceive to be facts. It's not even about C anymore. It's about FINDING NICK. Why can't people get that? NICK is STILL missing! Quit fighting it and help look for him!


I don't post often, but do lurk here once and a while and have an interest in this case, and from what I have seen on these boards, MysteryPhobia has always tried her best to be kind, openminded, objective, unbiased, and tolerant in her viewpoint and posts, not mean spirited, and to imply she is hypocritical is just laughable. I see no one on this board that really wants to help find Nicholas more than she does.

IMO you have difficulty seeing the true nature of people. With MysteryPhobia, and with Christine and Nicholas, too.

IMO, MOO

[Maranatha]

Hey Mystey, prayers for you, you're much braver than I am. Its very hard to put yourself out there in such a respectful manner knowing that you're cannon fodder. But you did it anyway. And took the fire.

Its saddens me that you, looking for the truth, are so insulted and disrepected by those who do not know the truth either, but do not seek it for whatever reason. They're IMO secure in their blindness. And prefer to be blind.

You have a good heart. :)

God bless!

Maranatha

[MystryPhobia]

Then little elfen magic, do tell where in San Diego Nick was spotted so that I may drive down there tomorrow and retrieve him. You nor C has answered that after being asked numerous times. If you are truly ~SeekingTruth~ you would answer. Why don't you and C show this board how much you're upstanding fine human beings and give us this bit of info? Or do you not truly want to find Nick??

If you had been told about the San Diego information.. then you would know that it was not a matter of going down there and looking for him.

As much as people want to say this information came from Christine.. it is not fact. It may have been brought here but it was already being talking about on another site. People on yayhooray were posting on Nicholas' thread on there. THEY said that they knew people from the b3s site that HAD talked to him and saw him since he went missing. Some of those posts have since been deleted but some that elude to it is still on the site. The detective was given this information and he was going to try to get subpoena's for that site since most people are not privy to what is on there. You have to be invited to be a member there by another memeber. Nicholas was and most likely is still a member. The owner of the B3s site and Nicholas were relatively close.. even if through the internet.. they were friends on facebook and twitter also. There are laws and since there is no crime.. you can not subpoena information from that site since we all have a constitutional rights to privacy. So.. is the information there? It could be.. but we will never know unless one of those people on that site start talking again.. and since they aren't.. and have chose to delete their information.. there is no specific place to search.. therefore.. nowhere to send you to look.

[SilverDove]

Then little elfen magic, do tell where in San Diego Nick was spotted so that I may drive down there tomorrow and retrieve him. You nor C has answered that after being asked numerous times. If you are truly ~SeekingTruth~ you would answer. Why don't you and C show this board how much you're upstanding fine human beings and give us this bit of info? Or do you not truly want to find Nick??

I'm beginning to wonder if you are here to make fun of other members of the board and be nasty to everyone who isn't hoping that Nicholas shows up on your door step to let you straighten him out.

Everyone here has the right to their own ideas of what may have happen just like you are. It would be nice if we all showed each other a bit of respect or at least not total nastiness.

There are things that point to Nicholas being in Calif but no one has been able to pin it down doesn't mean it isn't possible. Sorry if no one can give you the address so you can run off and pick him up to play video games.

[Musterion]

Hi M.! And everyone!

I think it is a good sign that we are still here, discussing, fifteen months after the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco!

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing! And, I see the points of both CFK and Mystry.

I would rather have this passionate and spirited debate then to have no thread, at all, about Nicholas. I just don't want the good hearts of everyone who posts here to faint and stop because they feel they are misunderstood. There is a chance to solve this mystery if we continue to dialogue. If we need to discuss it with frustration and anger, so be it! But, discuss, dissect, defend positions and don't stop. Three little ones need to find out what happened to their father. And, remember, this is not personal!

Hugs all around to my caring and compassionate fellow posters.

M.

[SilverDove]

At least I didn't suggest I get all gussied up and meet him at the wet spot like someone else here did. Then again, we all knew he wouldn't be there and it was only a hot aired self justifiable excuse for that person to go there.

Not even for a moment can you quit twisting things can you? You just want him to come and stay with you because you are the only one who understands him.

I have never been to the Wet Spot. I have never tried to get him to call me and come live me. Seems that was you if I remember right.

BTW Police seem to believe he had been there but then again no one believed what they said to me even after everyone reported me.

[SeattleEddie]

bugout has it right. If LE knows NF was involved in an erotic subculture, they would not have reported there are "no lifestyle indications" that point to foul play. That type of behaviour would have put him at risk.

No one knows any more than anyone else what happened to Nicholas, or what LE knows or what LE may be doing about it. Only the wife knows for certain whether Nicholas came home that night. Only she knows whether the cookies and Costco story is truth or fiction.

At this point, LE knows far far more than any one of us, and certainly more than the wife herself. They won't show their hand to anyone, and it's just foolish to try to second-guess what they may be thinking.

Sometimes it takes many years for these situations to come to resolution. The truth can't be twisted, or turned, or manipulated; no one has a corner on it; and almost always it comes out in the end.

[RainyNiteNTx]

You certainly know hypocrisy and are at it's finest.

You just don't read my posts do you? If you did, you'd have read I said he deserves to be able to tell his side. I NEVER said not to believe he did any of these things C has gone around claiming he's done. I don't care what you or she believe happened or did not happen...it's not about you or your feelings or what you perceive to be facts. It's also not about me or my feelings or what I perceive to be facts. It's not even about C anymore. It's about FINDING NICK. Why can't people get that? NICK is STILL missing! Quit fighting it and help look for him!

MP is one person that has physically looked for Nicholas - on her own dime and her own time. It helps that she lives in the area because I know several of us would have been right there with her if we had the chance. JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

Are you kidding me? You are not the only one that has done things to find this man so do not even go there with me. You don't think that anyone else except you and those from Cheri's board has searched for him or would do what ever it took to get him back to his family? That is rich CFK and again shows your narrow mindedness. ]

WHAT IF HE DOES NOT WANT TO BE FOUND? Does he still deserve to be found and his story told? What if he doesn't want you to have his story? What if he thinks it is none of your or my business? Are we all prepared for that? It happens all the time!

Hey MP - I hope you had a good mothers day as well.

I've mentioned it several times on this board about you searching for Nicholas, and given kudos to you for it. I still think it admirable that you went on your own without the support of anybody to do this.

However, I also think it admirable that people on any and every board are still trying to find some clues to this puzzle. Wouldn't it be all the more productive that the more people looking for NF - the better?

I don't think that anybody from Cheri's board thinks they are the only ones doing anything and are the only ones who want him back - I've never read anything stating that.

[RainyNiteNTx]

bugout has it right. If LE knows NF was involved in an erotic subculture, they would not have reported there are "no lifestyle indications" that point to foul play. That type of behaviour would have put him at risk.
No one knows any more than anyone else what happened to Nicholas, or what LE knows or what LE may be doing about it. Only the wife knows for certain whether Nicholas came home that night. Only she knows whether the cookies and Costco story is truth or fiction.

At this point, LE knows far far more than any one of us, and certainly more than the wife herself. They won't show their hand to anyone, and it's just foolish to try to second-guess what they may be thinking.

Sometimes it takes many years for these situations to come to resolution. The truth can't be twisted, or turned, or manipulated; no one has a corner on it; and almost always it comes out in the end.

(highlighted by me)
Exactly right Eddie. It would have been like the Jeremy Scully case where his lifestyle DID put him at risk; however, LE has stated just the contrary in NF's case. I would think LE would have had much more to go on and more places to look had NF been leading a Jeremy Scully type of life.

I have always been amazed at Jeremy Scully's girlfriend, his family, and his friends. They loved this guy in spite of his lifestyle and that is what you call unconditional love. Very rare....we have not seen that in NF's case.

JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

I don't post often, but do lurk here once and a while and have an interest in this case, and from what I have seen on these boards, MysteryPhobia has always tried her best to be kind, openminded, objective, unbiased, and tolerant in her viewpoint and posts, not mean spirited, and to imply she is hypocritical is just laughable. I see no one on this board that really wants to help find Nicholas more than she does.

IMO you have difficulty seeing the true nature of people. With MysteryPhobia, and with Christine and Nicholas, too.

IMO, MOO

I would be interested to hear what you believe to be the true nature of Christine, and Nicholas. As for MP I think I know her true nature. She has a good heart and is one of my friends I'm proud to have.

[Shelby1]

bugout has it right. If LE knows NF was involved in an erotic subculture, they would not have reported there are "no lifestyle indications" that point to foul play. That type of behaviour would have put him at risk.

No one knows any more than anyone else what happened to Nicholas, or what LE knows or what LE may be doing about it. Only the wife knows for certain whether Nicholas came home that night. Only she knows whether the cookies and Costco story is truth or fiction.

At this point, LE knows far far more than any one of us, and certainly more than the wife herself. They won't show their hand to anyone, and it's just foolish to try to second-guess what they may be thinking.

Sometimes it takes many years for these situations to come to resolution. The truth can't be twisted, or turned, or manipulated; no one has a corner on it; and almost always it comes out in the end.

I agree.

And, like was posted above, it's really good that there is still so much discussion going on about Nicholas. So many other people get pushed aside and forgotten.

I still don't believe for one second that Nicholas would leave his children willingly.

[elf999]

I would be interested to hear what you believe to be the true nature of Christine, and Nicholas. As for MP I think I know her true nature. She has a good heart and is one of my friends I'm proud to have.

The spins on Christine are mostly what I was talking about, when I mentioned seeing someone's "true nature". For instance taking a little incident, such as Christine feeling her baby kicking too early, earlier in fact, then it would be possible, and trying to turn that into something sinister... or people spinning that because she said Nicholas might be in the water somewhere during an interview, people taking that one statement and believing that indicates that she is a murderer...

In this case over and over I have seen people take little tiny things that Christine has done and tried to turn them into sinister indications of murderous intent, evilness, and sinfulness. Her creative personality has been turned into something evil because of a little exaggeration, her insecurities and fears of being alone have been turned into evil uncaringness....and Christine's divorce and remarriage have both been spun into something extremely suspicious, when she divorced him for the most common reason of all, adultery, and got married again in a time frame that is common for someone that is not comfortable with living alone.

Calling Christine a pathological liar I find unfair and wrong without any real knowledge of whether it is the truth or not. And oh, the stories spun about how Christine was so bad she "drove" "poor" Nicholas away, drove him to leave! Geez, he married her, if he can't stick up to her, that is not her problem, nor her fault. That does not absolve him of responsibity and allow him to cheat, and leave, if that's what he did.

All when the truth most likely lies, in the area of where all truth lies, they are just two dysfunctional people who had problems. The truth lies, where the ego, does not.

I could go on and on, but I'm just repeating things that have been said before anyway.. Human nature makes us not see clearly, I think, and some are more skewed in their views than others, and some situations make us more blinded than others....

This society does not give us the opportunity to know ourselves well enough, I think if we knew ourselves better, then we could understand others better, too... One tries to go to therapy in this society to try to find someone to talk to, and they shove pills down your throat.

I agree with you about MysteryPhobia, she seems a very kind person. I practice a form of Buddhism and work on cultivating compassion for all people, and it isn't easy, but Mystery is far more tolerant of people and things than I could ever be no matter how much I practice. I just don't have the natural patience for others that she does, it is a rare quality.

I'm not trying to argue in this post, just trying to give examples of what I meant about people's "true nature"... I think that people spin fantasies about others, and that is what life is all about. Buddhists would say it's our "ego" getting in the way of things...Many Eastern philosophies teach that people are not evil, even the worst of us, the murderers, the torturers, are not evil, they teach that people are just people filled with impulses they cannot control.

I believe we all live in a fantasy world, anyway.

Many Blessings

IMO MOO

[MystryPhobia]

Hey MP - I hope you had a good mothers day as well.

I've mentioned it several times on this board about you searching for Nicholas, and given kudos to you for it. I still think it admirable that you went on your own without the support of anybody to do this.

However, I also think it admirable that people on any and every board are still trying to find some clues to this puzzle. Wouldn't it be all the more productive that the more people looking for NF - the better?

I don't think that anybody from Cheri's board thinks they are the only ones doing anything and are the only ones who want him back - I've never read anything stating that.

I wasn't saying specifically what I had done. What I have done is nothing in comparsion to what others do daily, unselfishly for those missing. Those people that go and search every single weekend, rain or shine for Nancy Moyer and those like them are my heroes. Just trying to say that it is not fair to say that only the group that thinks the worse of Christine are the only ones that care about what happened to Nicholas or care to find him. I care a great deal about what happened to him, as I am sure everyone here does. I also think that there is a very real chance that he is out there somewhere and does not wish to be found. I feel like there is a lot of evidence to support that.. aside from what Christine has put out there. Since she doesn't have control of the entire internet. I understand also how people can feel that he is no longer living.. Even if others feel that he isn't.. shouldn't they still be searching for an alive Nicholas? Just as those of us that lean towards him being alive.. shouldn't disregard anything that shows that he may be dead. For example.. LE in Florida believed that Casey killed Caylee but they still investigated the legit sightings of people that looked like Caylee.. just in case, since they didn't have a body.

It is a sad story all around. It is kinda hard not to feel compassion for those involved... and we have ALL devoted lots of time to searching for him.. all in the ways that we are able.. it just so happens that I was able to for this one.. lots of them I haven't been able to and could only cheer on and support those that could. I would never try to make what I think more important because of living close to where he went missing.

[MystryPhobia]

I would be interested to hear what you believe to be the true nature of Christine, and Nicholas. As for MP I think I know her true nature. She has a good heart and is one of my friends I'm proud to have.

Thanks Rainy! I feel the same way!

We are all passionate in our thoughts and feelings. I think that is what draws us here and also what gets the discussion fired up at times. Hopefully it will lead to an "ah ha" moment and lead to what happened to Nicholas.

[MystryPhobia]

The spins on Christine are mostly what I was talking about, when I mentioned seeing someone's "true nature". For instance taking a little incident, such as Christine feeling her baby kicking too early, earlier in fact, then it would be possible, and trying to turn that into something sinister... or people spinning that because she said Nicholas might be in the water somewhere during an interview, people taking that one statement and believing that indicates that she is a murderer...

In this case over and over I have seen people take little tiny things that Christine has done and tried to turn them into sinister indications of murderous intent, evilness, and sinfulness. Her creative personality has been turned into something evil because of a little exaggeration, her insecurities and fears of being alone have been turned into evil uncaringness....and Christine's divorce and remarriage have both been spun into something extremely suspicious, when she divorced him for the most common reason of all, adultery, and got married again in a time frame that is common for someone that is not comfortable with living alone.

Calling Christine a pathological liar I find unfair and wrong without any real knowledge of whether it is the truth or not. And oh, the stories spun about how Christine was so bad she "drove" "poor" Nicholas away, drove him to leave! Geez, he married her, if he can't stick up to her, that is not her problem, nor her fault. That does not absolve him of responsibity and allow him to cheat, and leave, if that's what he did.

All when the truth most likely lies, in the area of where all truth lies, they are just two dysfunctional people who had problems. The truth lies, where the ego, does not.

I could go on and on, but I'm just repeating things that have been said before anyway.. Human nature makes us not see clearly, I think, and some are more skewed in their views than others, and some situations make us more blinded than others....

This society does not give us the opportunity to know ourselves well enough, I think if we knew ourselves better, then we could understand others better, too... One tries to go to therapy in this society to try to find someone to talk to, and they shove pills down your throat.

I agree with you about MysteryPhobia, she seems a very kind person. I practice a form of Buddhism and work on cultivating compassion for all people, and it isn't easy, but Mystery is far more tolerant of people and things than I could ever be no matter how much I practice. I just don't have the natural patience for others that she does, it is a rare quality.

I'm not trying to argue in this post, just trying to give examples of what I meant about people's "true nature"... I think that people spin fantasies about others, and that is what life is all about. Buddhists would say it's our "ego" getting in the way of things...Many Eastern philosophies teach that people are not evil, even the worst of us, the murderers, the torturers, are not evil, they teach that people are just people filled with impulses they cannot control.

I believe we all live in a fantasy world, anyway.

Many Blessings

IMO MOO

Hi Elf and thank you for what you have said.

Your paragraph above about Christine driving Nicholas away. I think is one of the problems that I have had from the beginning. Nicholas was a very intelligent man, by all indications. I find it very hard to believe that Christine somehow destroyed this gentle, loving, kind, caring, unselfish man and made him into a weak willed man that would have to run away from his wife, children, family, home, car and all of his valuables.. to save himself.

I don't think that I have been able to articulate exactly what it is that I am trying to say. But.. It just doesn't make sense to me. Those that feel this way want us to believe that Nicholas' past actions should predict his future actions. He loved his children and cared for them on a daily basis.. therefore he would never leave them. He went to work daily.. therefore he would never be able to walk away from it. He was a devoted family man.. therefore he would never do anything to hurt them. If our past ALWAYS predicates our future then why are there so many murders, suicides and other crimes where loved ones, neighbors and close friends say.. I NEVER saw anything like this coming? That person is the last person I could see doing what they did.. etc?

I am extremely fascinated by the psychologic aspect of this case. Maybe they were two messed up people that came together and tried to make it normal... tried to BE normal. Maybe they were just going through the motions like so many of us do.

I just know that if.. by that same standard of past predicating the future for Nicholas.. and if (not saying anyone else has to) I do believe that he was having extramarital affairs with both men and women... if I believe that he was able to hide this from Christine, his children, his family, his friends, his church.. then I have to wonder what else he could have been able to hide.

Does this mean that I am trying to speak ill of the missing man? Does someone that is missing or possibly dead not have the same standards that we hold those alive too? If you are a victim.. does that automatically make you above reproach from your own truth? This is where I get so upset when chastised for not caring or for trying to "defame" someone. That isn't fair. We are not here to sugar coat things.. we are here for the truth.. and sometimes it isn't pretty. And.. I wonder if those so stuck on not seeing it.. won't, because they fear their own judgements will make them turn their backs and not care anymore. To me.. that is sad!

[SilverDove]

bugout has it right. If LE knows NF was involved in an erotic subculture, they would not have reported there are "no lifestyle indications" that point to foul play. That type of behaviour would have put him at risk.

No one knows any more than anyone else what happened to Nicholas, or what LE knows or what LE may be doing about it. Only the wife knows for certain whether Nicholas came home that night. Only she knows whether the cookies and Costco story is truth or fiction.

At this point, LE knows far far more than any one of us, and certainly more than the wife herself. They won't show their hand to anyone, and it's just foolish to try to second-guess what they may be thinking.

Sometimes it takes many years for these situations to come to resolution. The truth can't be twisted, or turned, or manipulated; no one has a corner on it; and almost always it comes out in the end.

I would have to disagree with you that the police would find someone in the "erotic subculture" would be in danger. I have knowing people in law enforcement, working for the utilities, working for the medical profession, work at Amazon and Microsoft, the truth is you will find people in almost every walk of life involved in the "erotic subculture" you just don't hear it from then if you aren't open minded.

So one person was killed it still doesn't make it dangerous just like being a receptionist isn't a dangerous lifestyle because they seem to get shot first when some idiot goes off in an office.

The thing is that Invreporter's inside contact at the sheriffs office contacted me because I knew more then most posters right after a started posting about the Wetspot. If there was nothing to it why did they want to know what I knew?

The "erotic subculture" in Seattle isn't in and of itself dangerous.

[MystryPhobia]

I would have to disagree with you that the police would find someone in the "erotic subculture" would be in danger. I have knowing people in law enforcement, working for the utilities, working for the medical profession, work at Amazon and Microsoft, the truth is you will find people in almost every walk of life involved in the "erotic subculture" you just don't hear it from then if you aren't open minded.

So one person was killed it still doesn't make it dangerous just like being a receptionist isn't a dangerous lifestyle because they seem to get shot first when some idiot goes off in an office.

The thing is that Invreporter's inside contact at the sheriffs office contacted me because I knew more then most posters right after a started posting about the Wetspot. If there was nothing to it why did they want to know what I knew?

The "erotic subculture" in Seattle isn't in and of itself dangerous.

Did you happen to catch it on the news awhile back? They did a spot with the owner of the wet spot or center for sex positive culture or whatever the name is now? They let the news crew in there and there were bondage rooms and stuff. They are actually a non profit.. which is what the news was trying to point out. She talked about how many members there were and I don't remember the number but it was ALOT.. they are doctors, lawyers, politicians, church goers, CEO's, CFO's.. everyone. I would venture a guess that almost ALWAYS nothing criminal happens to the members. So, when you are talking statistically.. you are talking about a very safe culture of people.

I think it is a stretch to say that there were "no lifestyle indicators that he met with foul play" meant that he was not a member there or engaging in an alt lifestyle... but that is JMO.

[boo]

Good morning to all. I was hoping to find out more on the body and that it had been identified. Hopefully soon.

I was re-reading some of the emails this morning from the Sgt when this was new and thought I'd share them again. Not that they mean a dang thing, as I am more than positive, they know much more now than they did back then, particularily where the "secret" life comes in.

1) Dear Lisa,
Our investigation of the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco is continuing.

At this point we have absolutely no evidence that would lead us to believe he was the victim of foul play. No physical evidence, no lifestyle indications, and no associations that would lead us to believe he was a victim.

Did he leave voluntarily? Perhaps. Information has come to light that he was keeping some secrets from his wife, and she has now declined to do any further media interviews.

So the bottom line is we don’t know what happened to him.

2) Dear Lisa,
We still don’t know what happened to Francisco. And we are no closer to finding him.

We have learned that he led a “secret life” of sorts. At least he was up to things and had e-mail and PayPal accounts that his wife did not know about. Nuff said.

As far as we know, family members of Nick have not heard from him.

His wife, Christine, seems to be willing to “get on with her life”, and refuses and further media interviews.

So there you go.


John

3) I’ll try to keep you updated Lisa if we learn anything else I can share.

I’m sure you understand why I can’t tell you more about our investigation……privacy rights and all that.

While it’s not illegal to “go missing”, we still have an open case and a suspicious circumstance, so we will continue to investigate and follow-up on leads until we find him or know what happened.

We have no idea if he is still in the Seattle area……or in Timbuktu by now!


Regards,

John



I hope one day, we know what happened to Nicholas. I hope his children some day find out what happened to their daddy. Must be an awful feeling not knowing.

[SeattleEddie]

I would have to disagree with you that the police would find someone in the "erotic subculture" would be in danger. I have knowing people in law enforcement, working for the utilities, working for the medical profession, work at Amazon and Microsoft, the truth is you will find people in almost every walk of life involved in the "erotic subculture" you just don't hear it from then if you aren't open minded.

So one person was killed it still doesn't make it dangerous just like being a receptionist isn't a dangerous lifestyle because they seem to get shot first when some idiot goes off in an office.

The thing is that Invreporter's inside contact at the sheriffs office contacted me because I knew more then most posters right after a started posting about the Wetspot. If there was nothing to it why did they want to know what I knew?

The "erotic subculture" in Seattle isn't in and of itself dangerous.

Hello SD, I did not say that everyone who participates in the erotic subculture is at risk. You have informed us time an again that people from all walks of life engage in alternate sexual lifestyles. OK. What I did say is that it would be an area of inquiry if LE truly believed he was a participant. Likewise, if LE knew for sure that NF was having an affair, his girlfriend, her husband and associates would immediately become suspect. If LE knew for sure that NF was involved in sexual activity with numerous parties, that would put him at greater risk than if he were not. First of all because of sheer numbers and secondly because of the risk of emotional involvement, jealousies, resentments, etc, (i.e. Scully) and also increased contacts of an intimate nature. Having sex with strangers is more risky than sitting behind the front desk at an insurance office.

It's not necessary to continually defend the alternate sexual lifestyle. It's not on trial here, and frankly it's boring to hear the same argument over and over. Whatever you do in your spare time is your business and of no interest to me. I would suspect the reason LE wished to talk to you is because you claimed to have inside information about NF.

[elf999]

Hi Elf and thank you for what you have said.

Your paragraph above about Christine driving Nicholas away. I think is one of the problems that I have had from the beginning. Nicholas was a very intelligent man, by all indications. I find it very hard to believe that Christine somehow destroyed this gentle, loving, kind, caring, unselfish man and made him into a weak willed man that would have to run away from his wife, children, family, home, car and all of his valuables.. to save himself.

I don't think that I have been able to articulate exactly what it is that I am trying to say. But.. It just doesn't make sense to me. Those that feel this way want us to believe that Nicholas' past actions should predict his future actions. He loved his children and cared for them on a daily basis.. therefore he would never leave them. He went to work daily.. therefore he would never be able to walk away from it. He was a devoted family man.. therefore he would never do anything to hurt them. If our past ALWAYS predicates our future then why are there so many murders, suicides and other crimes where loved ones, neighbors and close friends say.. I NEVER saw anything like this coming? That person is the last person I could see doing what they did.. etc?

I am extremely fascinated by the psychologic aspect of this case. Maybe they were two messed up people that came together and tried to make it normal... tried to BE normal. Maybe they were just going through the motions like so many of us do.

I just know that if.. by that same standard of past predicating the future for Nicholas.. and if (not saying anyone else has to) I do believe that he was having extramarital affairs with both men and women... if I believe that he was able to hide this from Christine, his children, his family, his friends, his church.. then I have to wonder what else he could have been able to hide.

Does this mean that I am trying to speak ill of the missing man? Does someone that is missing or possibly dead not have the same standards that we hold those alive too? If you are a victim.. does that automatically make you above reproach from your own truth? This is where I get so upset when chastised for not caring or for trying to "defame" someone. That isn't fair. We are not here to sugar coat things.. we are here for the truth.. and sometimes it isn't pretty. And.. I wonder if those so stuck on not seeing it.. won't, because they fear their own judgements will make them turn their backs and not care anymore. To me.. that is sad!

Hi Mystery, Nicholas's secret life seems to me to be a very important part of this missing person case. Morally and spiritually according to my spiritual tradition, as long as it's done with the right intentions and does not do damage to him, I don't see that it is wrong to talk about it, as long as it is with a true desire to help. I do think it is important to speak about it carefully, and in the correct way and at the right time and place, so that it does not do damage.

IMO, and from knowledge gained and my own personal experience, I don't think in any relationship there is one party that is devoid of any responsibility at all for what is going on.... I think people do have a tendency to look at a problem relationship and place the blame very strongly on one person, but sometimes it's very difficult to pinpoint the cause of difficulties. I've seen and discovered (in myself for instance) the root causes of problems to sometimes be very different from what they appear to be.

The way people want to blame Christine makes me think of dysfunctional families, when there is one person who is used as a scapegoat. The scapegoat is the *problem* person in the family, the one with all the difficulties, often times they are just the person that shows the family problems. They may be the most sensitive person, or maybe they are just different, and don't fit well into the family dynamic. Family members blame them for everything and distort the truth so they won't have to see that there is something wrong with their family... it's much easier to just blame the one person than to see things the way they really are. This keeps people feeling loved, and enables them to keep on loving their family members (except for the unfortunate scapegoat, sadly). Maybe something similar is going on here.

I find your statement about Nicholas hiding even more things than we know about, very intriguing! Who knows... I wish we had the answers here, for everyone's sake...

Many Blessings

IMO MOO

[MystryPhobia]

Hello SD, I did not say that everyone who participates in the erotic subculture is at risk. You have informed us time an again that people from all walks of life engage in alternate sexual lifestyles. OK. What I did say is that it would be an area of inquiry if LE truly believed he was a participant. Likewise, if LE knew for sure that NF was having an affair, his girlfriend, her husband and associates would immediately become suspect. If LE knew for sure that NF was involved in sexual activity with numerous parties, that would put him at greater risk than if he were not. First of all because of sheer numbers and secondly because of the risk of emotional involvement, jealousies, resentments, etc, (i.e. Scully) and also increased contacts of an intimate nature. Having sex with strangers is more risky than sitting behind the front desk at an insurance office.

It's not necessary to continually defend the alternate sexual lifestyle. It's not on trial here, and frankly it's boring to hear the same argument over and over. Whatever you do in your spare time is your business and of no interest to me. I would suspect the reason LE wished to talk to you is because you claimed to have inside information about NF.

That whole post is absolutely ridiculous. For one.. SD has said SO MANY times that she does not engage in that lifestyle nor does she go to the Wet Spot. You obviously are choosing to ignore that so that you can make fun of her for your own enjoyment. NOT COOL IMO

There is no defending of the alt lifestyle. She knows people that have been involved in it. Knows somewhat about it. This is like calling someone that knows about child molestation a child molester. Again.. ridiculous.

People in all walks of life DO engage in that lifestyle. YOU would probably be shocked. If you don't believe me check craigslist.. adultfriendfinder.. bootycall.. etc etc.

For the record.. ONE MORE TIME.. LE did not contact her because she claimed to have inside information on Nicholas. Quite the contrary! Someone else posted about the lifestyle and that got her thinking that IF he was involved in it then he would have a ring of people that would protect him and his decisions. Posters started talking about it and she named some places.. such as The Wet Spot.. by the way.. THAT is not the only club in Seattle that are "erotic" in nature. There are several and are full most nights of the week. Christine was reading here and KNEW what the detective had found and SHE contacted the detective and said.. hey, there is this person on this website and they are talking about the Wet Spot and other stuff he was doing and maybe they know something. I think at the same time or close to that time INV also contacted LE about what she was posting. LE emailed SD and asked her what her connection to Nicholas was because she knew more than other writers on the site. The email has been posted here. Try reading it. I think it is further proof of which way the investigation was going.

[SilverDove]

Hello SD, I did not say that everyone who participates in the erotic subculture is at risk. You have informed us time an again that people from all walks of life engage in alternate sexual lifestyles. OK. What I did say is that it would be an area of inquiry if LE truly believed he was a participant. Likewise, if LE knew for sure that NF was having an affair, his girlfriend, her husband and associates would immediately become suspect. If LE knew for sure that NF was involved in sexual activity with numerous parties, that would put him at greater risk than if he were not. First of all because of sheer numbers and secondly because of the risk of emotional involvement, jealousies, resentments, etc, (i.e. Scully) and also increased contacts of an intimate nature. Having sex with strangers is more risky than sitting behind the front desk at an insurance office.

It's not necessary to continually defend the alternate sexual lifestyle. It's not on trial here, and frankly it's boring to hear the same argument over and over. Whatever you do in your spare time is your business and of no interest to me. I would suspect the reason LE wished to talk to you is because you claimed to have inside information about NF.

You were the one who started talking about it not me. Was I just to let you post what ever without having a say. If you find the subject so boring why bring it up? You keep saying it is impossible for him to have been involved in anything or that the police would have done something. Near as I have been able to find out it is likely that the police have talked to people who were involved with him they just haven't said anything to protect those peoples privacy. With the way Christine is treated and I'm treated I'm sure that the police didn't want to make more people subjects of ridicule by people on the board.

As to my life style I don't think I was talking about it so I'm not sure why you wanted to bring it up. Really I hate to say this but it is clear you don't have the first clue about me but feel free to keep showing the how things get twisted and incorrect. It is the exact thing that is happening with Christine.

[SilverDove]

I work for King County Sheriff's Office Missing Persons Unit. The truth is, if Nicholas is missing of his own free will & he contacts me/us, I close the case & stop trying to find him. All I would tell Christine or other family is that I verified he is okay, so I am closing the case & clearing him as missing. In fact, I do not even need to know his location, only that he is okay. Adults have a right to privacy, but unless/until I know he is missing of his own free will, I have to continue searching. I have worked here for 28 years, 10 in Missing Persons, & have NEVER told anyone where a missing person was, if that's what the person wanted.
Additionally, time & resources are being used in this case that should be dedicated to other 1,800 missing person cases we get a year, if Nicholas is alright. Several of those are severely disabled, such as Alzheimer's patients.
You seem to know more about this situation than the average person writing in. If you are Nicholas, know he is okay, or know where he is, I would appreciate hearing from you to get this matter cleared up.
Thank you for your attention to this matter,
Jan Rhodes - 206-296-7692 or 1-800-325-6165 ext. 67692

This is the message that I got a year ago April. I found it interesting that s/he said that I seem to know more about this situation then the average person. So make of it as you will but seems to me I was must have been posting a lot that they already knew just from my guess work.

[RainyNiteNTx]

The spins on Christine are mostly what I was talking about, when I mentioned seeing someone's "true nature". For instance taking a little incident, such as Christine feeling her baby kicking too early, earlier in fact, then it would be possible, and trying to turn that into something sinister... or people spinning that because she said Nicholas might be in the water somewhere during an interview, people taking that one statement and believing that indicates that she is a murderer...

In this case over and over I have seen people take little tiny things that Christine has done and tried to turn them into sinister indications of murderous intent, evilness, and sinfulness. Her creative personality has been turned into something evil because of a little exaggeration, her insecurities and fears of being alone have been turned into evil uncaringness....and Christine's divorce and remarriage have both been spun into something extremely suspicious, when she divorced him for the most common reason of all, adultery, and got married again in a time frame that is common for someone that is not comfortable with living alone.

Calling Christine a pathological liar I find unfair and wrong without any real knowledge of whether it is the truth or not. And oh, the stories spun about how Christine was so bad she "drove" "poor" Nicholas away, drove him to leave! Geez, he married her, if he can't stick up to her, that is not her problem, nor her fault. That does not absolve him of responsibity and allow him to cheat, and leave, if that's what he did.

All when the truth most likely lies, in the area of where all truth lies, they are just two dysfunctional people who had problems. The truth lies, where the ego, does not.

I could go on and on, but I'm just repeating things that have been said before anyway.. Human nature makes us not see clearly, I think, and some are more skewed in their views than others, and some situations make us more blinded than others....

This society does not give us the opportunity to know ourselves well enough, I think if we knew ourselves better, then we could understand others better, too... One tries to go to therapy in this society to try to find someone to talk to, and they shove pills down your throat.

I agree with you about MysteryPhobia, she seems a very kind person. I practice a form of Buddhism and work on cultivating compassion for all people, and it isn't easy, but Mystery is far more tolerant of people and things than I could ever be no matter how much I practice. I just don't have the natural patience for others that she does, it is a rare quality.

I'm not trying to argue in this post, just trying to give examples of what I meant about people's "true nature"... I think that people spin fantasies about others, and that is what life is all about. Buddhists would say it's our "ego" getting in the way of things...Many Eastern philosophies teach that people are not evil, even the worst of us, the murderers, the torturers, are not evil, they teach that people are just people filled with impulses they cannot control.

I believe we all live in a fantasy world, anyway.

Many Blessings

IMO MOO

Thank you for your answer.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Thanks Rainy! I feel the same way!

We are all passionate in our thoughts and feelings. I think that is what draws us here and also what gets the discussion fired up at times. Hopefully it will lead to an "ah ha" moment and lead to what happened to Nicholas.

I doubt it. Seems some here are into playing games and trying to get rid of anybody that doesn't support CF.

Nicholas - if you are alive, I hope you find your inner peace and make things right with your children. I hope you find a better set of people to surround yourself with in your new life than what you left. I hope you find friends that will accept you - I hope you find a church family that will embrace you, and I hope you find someone to share your life with.

If you are dead, I hope and pray that your remains will be discovered so that your parents and siblings can lay you to rest with dignity.

[MystryPhobia]

I doubt it. Seems some here are into playing games and trying to get rid of anybody that doesn't support CF.

Nicholas - if you are alive, I hope you find your inner peace and make things right with your children. I hope you find a better set of people to surround yourself with in your new life than what you left. I hope you find friends that will accept you - I hope you find a church family that will embrace you, and I hope you find someone to share your life with.

If you are dead, I hope and pray that your remains will be discovered so that your parents and siblings can lay you to rest with dignity.

For the record.. I did NOT report one single post from ANYONE! Whatever was said about hypocrisy.. I brought up. Why would I then report someone for saying the same thing back to me?

[SilverDove]

Good morning to all. I was hoping to find out more on the body and that it had been identified. Hopefully soon.

I was re-reading some of the emails this morning from the Sgt when this was new and thought I'd share them again. Not that they mean a dang thing, as I am more than positive, they know much more now than they did back then, particularily where the "secret" life comes in.

1) Dear Lisa,
Our investigation of the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco is continuing.

At this point we have absolutely no evidence that would lead us to believe he was the victim of foul play. No physical evidence, no lifestyle indications, and no associations that would lead us to believe he was a victim.

Did he leave voluntarily? Perhaps. Information has come to light that he was keeping some secrets from his wife, and she has now declined to do any further media interviews.

So the bottom line is we don’t know what happened to him.

2) Dear Lisa,
We still don’t know what happened to Francisco. And we are no closer to finding him.

We have learned that he led a “secret life” of sorts. At least he was up to things and had e-mail and PayPal accounts that his wife did not know about. Nuff said.

As far as we know, family members of Nick have not heard from him.

His wife, Christine, seems to be willing to “get on with her life”, and refuses and further media interviews.

So there you go.


John

3) I’ll try to keep you updated Lisa if we learn anything else I can share.

I’m sure you understand why I can’t tell you more about our investigation……privacy rights and all that.

While it’s not illegal to “go missing”, we still have an open case and a suspicious circumstance, so we will continue to investigate and follow-up on leads until we find him or know what happened.

We have no idea if he is still in the Seattle area……or in Timbuktu by now!


Regards,

John



I hope one day, we know what happened to Nicholas. I hope his children some day find out what happened to their daddy. Must be an awful feeling not knowing.

I find the red very interesting, sounds a lot like the sheriff were the ones who found some of the stuff. Also the "Nuff said" sounds like they don't blame Christine for being upset.

[Cheri_G]

I work for King County Sheriff's Office Missing Persons Unit. The truth is, if Nicholas is missing of his own free will & he contacts me/us, I close the case & stop trying to find him. All I would tell Christine or other family is that I verified he is okay, so I am closing the case & clearing him as missing. In fact, I do not even need to know his location, only that he is okay. Adults have a right to privacy, but unless/until I know he is missing of his own free will, I have to continue searching. I have worked here for 28 years, 10 in Missing Persons, & have NEVER told anyone where a missing person was, if that's what the person wanted.
Additionally, time & resources are being used in this case that should be dedicated to other 1,800 missing person cases we get a year, if Nicholas is alright. Several of those are severely disabled, such as Alzheimer's patients.
You seem to know more about this situation than the average person writing in. If you are Nicholas, know he is okay, or know where he is, I would appreciate hearing from you to get this matter cleared up.
Thank you for your attention to this matter,
Jan Rhodes - 206-296-7692 or 1-800-325-6165 ext. 67692

This is the message that I got a year ago April. I found it interesting that s/he said that I seem to know more about this situation then the average person. So make of it as you will but seems to me I was must have been posting a lot that they already knew just from my guess work.

As I recall, at the time you were posting quite frequently that you thought Nick went to the WS club. You were also posting about how you thought he may have died. I expect somebody reported your posts to LE and they were following up. (No it wasn't me.)

I'm sorry but I don't think what they meant by "You seem to know more about this situation than the average person writing in" was that your theories were better or more accurate, but based on your posts they thought maybe you had personal knowlege of Nick's whereabouts or what may have happened to him which is what lead to the next thing they said to you:

If you are Nicholas, know he is okay, or know where he is, I would appreciate hearing from you to get this matter cleared up

[Cheri_G]

I find the red very interesting, sounds a lot like the sheriff were the ones who found some of the stuff. Also the "Nuff said" sounds like they don't blame Christine for being upset.

Well we knew they'd found the paypal account. I'd forgotten about an email account being mentioned as well until boo posted. It doesn't really tell us much other than that he was keeping something from Christine. How or if whatever it was may have played into why he disappeared is still unknown.

[SilverDove]

As I recall, at the time you were posting quite frequently that you thought Nick went to the WS club. You were also posting about how you thought he may have died. I expect somebody reported your posts to LE and they were following up. (No it wasn't me.)

I'm sorry but I don't think what they meant by "You seem to know more about this situation than the average person writing in" was that your theories were better or more accurate, but based on your posts they thought maybe you had personal knowlege of Nick's whereabouts or what may have happened to him which is what lead to the next thing they said to you:

If you are Nicholas, know he is okay, or know where he is, I would appreciate hearing from you to get this matter cleared up

I never thought he was dead and I don't remember ever posting that he was dead. Also if they didn't think my theories were better why take the time to ask me. Everyone had theories so why did they ask me? There were lots of people saying he was dead do you think they sent them all messages?

[Cheri_G]

I never thought he was dead and I don't remember ever posting that he was dead. Also if they didn't think my theories were better why take the time to ask me. Everyone had theories so why did they ask me? There were lots of people saying he was dead do you think they sent them all messages?

No you didn't post that he was dead. In fact I think you stated regularly that you were in the "walked off" camp. However, an idea of how he may have died was introduced and you were part of that discussion.

Look I'm just telling you what I think happened. I think at the time you seemed fixated on Nick going to that club and somebody may have thought that you'd seen him there or something or knew something about his disappearance and contacted LE.

I think LE was following up on a tip when they contacted you.

[SeattleEddie]

That whole post is absolutely ridiculous. For one.. SD has said SO MANY times that she does not engage in that lifestyle nor does she go to the Wet Spot. You obviously are choosing to ignore that so that you can make fun of her for your own enjoyment. NOT COOL IMO

There is no defending of the alt lifestyle. She knows people that have been involved in it. Knows somewhat about it. This is like calling someone that knows about child molestation a child molester. Again.. ridiculous.

People in all walks of life DO engage in that lifestyle. YOU would probably be shocked. If you don't believe me check craigslist.. adultfriendfinder.. bootycall.. etc etc.

For the record.. ONE MORE TIME.. LE did not contact her because she claimed to have inside information on Nicholas. Quite the contrary! Someone else posted about the lifestyle and that got her thinking that IF he was involved in it then he would have a ring of people that would protect him and his decisions. Posters started talking about it and she named some places.. such as The Wet Spot.. by the way.. THAT is not the only club in Seattle that are "erotic" in nature. There are several and are full most nights of the week. Christine was reading here and KNEW what the detective had found and SHE contacted the detective and said.. hey, there is this person on this website and they are talking about the Wet Spot and other stuff he was doing and maybe they know something. I think at the same time or close to that time INV also contacted LE about what she was posting. LE emailed SD and asked her what her connection to Nicholas was because she knew more than other writers on the site. The email has been posted here. Try reading it. I think it is further proof of which way the investigation was going.

The CFC fan club members are all fixated on Nicholas' sexual behaviour, and have spent countless words discussing whether he went to the Wet Spot; titillating over naked photos of someone they want desperately to believe is NF; searching adult sites and ruminating about his intimate encounters with males and/or females. Hell, what about group sex?

We have heard these theories month after month after month. They originated from the CF fan club.

When someone volunteers to go to the Wet Spot to look for Nicholas, well, that tells us more about the volunteer than about the missing man.

The fact that many or few people engage in an alternate sexual lifestyle is not relevant to the discussion. Assuming to know what would or wouldn't shock me is taking this conversation to a personal level that is totally not appropriate.

And check your assumptions. I did not accuse SD of anything other than continuing to bring up a fascination with the Wet Spot. It's just........weird.

[carterkatt]

I work for King County Sheriff's Office Missing Persons Unit. The truth is, if Nicholas is missing of his own free will & he contacts me/us, I close the case & stop trying to find him. All I would tell Christine or other family is that I verified he is okay, so I am closing the case & clearing him as missing. In fact, I do not even need to know his location, only that he is okay. Adults have a right to privacy, but unless/until I know he is missing of his own free will, I have to continue searching. I have worked here for 28 years, 10 in Missing Persons, & have NEVER told anyone where a missing person was, if that's what the person wanted.
Additionally, time & resources are being used in this case that should be dedicated to other 1,800 missing person cases we get a year, if Nicholas is alright. Several of those are severely disabled, such as Alzheimer's patients.
You seem to know more about this situation than the average person writing in. If you are Nicholas, know he is okay, or know where he is, I would appreciate hearing from you to get this matter cleared up.
Thank you for your attention to this matter,
Jan Rhodes - 206-296-7692 or 1-800-325-6165 ext. 67692

This is the message that I got a year ago April. I found it interesting that s/he said that I seem to know more about this situation then the average person. So make of it as you will but seems to me I was must have been posting a lot that they already knew just from my guess work.


SilverDove - thank you for posting that. I found it very interesting. Now.. to ask what may be a stupid question... Do you or others know how Ms. Rhodes, or others in her office, would verify identity if a missing person called them to say "I'm alive and well... just leave me alone, etc."? Made me curious. TIA

[AJandTam]

Have we ID'ed that body yet? That's what i'm interested in.

[MystryPhobia]

The CFC fan club members are all fixated on Nicholas' sexual behaviour, and have spent countless words discussing whether he went to the Wet Spot; titillating over naked photos of someone they want desperately to believe is NF; searching adult sites and ruminating about his intimate encounters with males and/or females. Hell, what about group sex?

We have heard these theories month after month after month. They originated from the CF fan club.

When someone volunteers to go to the Wet Spot to look for Nicholas, well, that tells us more about the volunteer than about the missing man.

The fact that many or few people engage in an alternate sexual lifestyle is not relevant to the discussion. Assuming to know what would or wouldn't shock me is taking this conversation to a personal level that is totally not appropriate.

And check your assumptions. I did not accuse SD of anything other than continuing to bring up a fascination with the Wet Spot. It's just........weird.

I am not fixated by it nor am I part of any fan club... that is just another way for people to take steps in trying to limit those of us that are posting opinions.. and it is not fair.. and extremely offensive. Please do not put me within some group of people when you don't know me, at all. I do not believe that Christine has done everything right but I also don't believe that she knew or had anything to do with Nicholas' disappearance. That is just MO and I am open to EVERYONE'S opinion that differs with mine. That does not place me in Christine's pocket or a part of her fan club. I do have a mind of my own and can make my own observations.

I am trying to keep everything in perspective. I have laid out why I lean towards him leaving on his own and why I believe that LE is leaning towards that.

There was a time when we could all talk about our theories and not be slammed on or bashed... no matter which side of the fence that we were on. Now.. if we say something that is different than the other "side" then it is taken as a personal attack against them. That is not fair.. from either side. We all have our own thoughts, feelings and experiences that play a part in how we think. In the area of the country that we live on.. we are much more liberal than other parts of the country. I say.. so what if someone was a member of a erotic club or not. So what if they are into the swinging lifestyle. It is their choice.. not mine. Others see this as a slam on him and a horrible thing to say about someone. I feel that it HAS to be part of the conversation because Nicholas was either interested in it or already doing it. It clearly shows a state of mind.. IMO. Does it make me some pervert because I am asking to put it into the big picture? Why is it okay to talk about it only in the context that Christine found out about it and killed him that night in a fit of rage over it?? We can't have it both ways.. we talk about it.. in regards to Christine's guilt.. but not in regards to him leaving on his own or being a victim by someone elses hand? That makes no sense to me and makes me then wonder.. if people want the truth or if they are just looking for anything that makes Christine look guilty.

I have NEVER slammed one person for looking into Christine's inconsistancies. I would ask for you to show me one time. The only time I ever say anything about it is when people embellish the facts to make something look different than it actually is... where she is concerened. AND I only do this because there are so many that will not accept that Nicholas could have been having extra marital affairs and YES that "could" have lead to him wanting to walk away from his life. That "could" have led to someone wanting to harm him. It is another theory. It has been said on here that she was the one that was involved in the extra curricular activites (any NOBODY says a word.. so, it is okay to talk about it regard to her but not him?).. so, I ask.. show me some evidence to show that we could jump to that conclusion. Everything about her and what she has said.. shows that is not her style. It has been said that SHE was the one that had a connnection to the condos in FW. There is absolutely no where that shows a connection to her and those condos. She also said that she nor Nicholas (that she was aware of) had any reason to be in that area and she had only ever been down that way for shopping a couple of times. But.. still both of those things and others have been posted here as fact.

We should ALL be able to talk about our thoughts or what we know... without fear of degradation or humilation.. without being places into any clique of people.

[Cheri_G]

Have we ID'ed that body yet? That's what i'm interested in.

Hi Tam,

Not that I've seen but I haven't spent much time looking today.

[Cheri_G]

I am not fixated by it nor am I part of any fan club... that is just another way for people to take steps in trying to limit those of us that are posting opinions.. and it is not fair.. and extremely offensive. Please do not put me within some group of people when you don't know me, at all. I do not believe that Christine has done everything right but I also don't believe that she knew or had anything to do with Nicholas' disappearance. That is just MO and I am open to EVERYONE'S opinion that differs with mine. That does not place me in Christine's pocket or a part of her fan club. I do have a mind of my own and can make my own observations.

I am trying to keep everything in perspective. I have laid out why I lean towards him leaving on his own and why I believe that LE is leaning towards that.

There was a time when we could all talk about our theories and not be slammed on or bashed... no matter which side of the fence that we were on. Now.. if we say something that is different than the other "side" then it is taken as a personal attack against them. That is not fair.. from either side. We all have our own thoughts, feelings and experiences that play a part in how we think. In the area of the country that we live on.. we are much more liberal than other parts of the country. I say.. so what if someone was a member of a erotic club or not. So what if they are into the swinging lifestyle. It is their choice.. not mine. Others see this as a slam on him and a horrible thing to say about someone. I feel that it HAS to be part of the conversation because Nicholas was either interested in it or already doing it. It clearly shows a state of mind.. IMO. Does it make me some pervert because I am asking to put it into the big picture? Why is it okay to talk about it only in the context that Christine found out about it and killed him that night in a fit of rage over it?? We can't have it both ways.. we talk about it.. in regards to Christine's guilt.. but not in regards to him leaving on his own or being a victim by someone elses hand? That makes no sense to me and makes me then wonder.. if people want the truth or if they are just looking for anything that makes Christine look guilty.

I have NEVER slammed one person for looking into Christine's inconsistancies. I would ask for you to show me one time. The only time I ever say anything about it is when people embellish the facts to make something look different than it actually is... where she is concerened. AND I only do this because there are so many that will not accept that Nicholas could have been having extra marital affairs and YES that "could" have lead to him wanting to walk away from his life. That "could" have led to someone wanting to harm him. It is another theory. It has been said on here that she was the one that was involved in the extra curricular activites (any NOBODY says a word.. so, it is okay to talk about it regard to her but not him?).. so, I ask.. show me some evidence to show that we could jump to that conclusion. Everything about her and what she has said.. shows that is not her style. It has been said that SHE was the one that had a connnection to the condos in FW. There is absolutely no where that shows a connection to her and those condos. She also said that she nor Nicholas (that she was aware of) had any reason to be in that area and she had only ever been down that way for shopping a couple of times. But.. still both of those things and others have been posted here as fact.

We should ALL be able to talk about our thoughts or what we know... without fear of degradation or humilation.. without being places into any clique of people.

I worry about you.

[AJandTam]

Hi Tam,

Not that I've seen but I haven't spent much time looking today.

Thanks Cheri. I keep checking in to see if there is anything. Didn't someone say there was another body that never got ID'ed from the area?? Not sure when?

[Cheri_G]

Thanks Cheri. I keep checking in to see if there is anything. Didn't someone say there was another body that never got ID'ed from the area?? Not sure when?

There was another body found that has not been identified as far as I know. That was at pier 52 in Seattle.

[MystryPhobia]

I worry about you.

I bet you do!

[Cheri_G]

I bet you do!

She doesn't care about you.

[elf999]

I am not fixated by it nor am I part of any fan club... that is just another way for people to take steps in trying to limit those of us that are posting opinions.. and it is not fair.. and extremely offensive. Please do not put me within some group of people when you don't know me, at all. I do not believe that Christine has done everything right but I also don't believe that she knew or had anything to do with Nicholas' disappearance. That is just MO and I am open to EVERYONE'S opinion that differs with mine. That does not place me in Christine's pocket or a part of her fan club. I do have a mind of my own and can make my own observations.

I am trying to keep everything in perspective. I have laid out why I lean towards him leaving on his own and why I believe that LE is leaning towards that.

There was a time when we could all talk about our theories and not be slammed on or bashed... no matter which side of the fence that we were on. Now.. if we say something that is different than the other "side" then it is taken as a personal attack against them. That is not fair.. from either side. We all have our own thoughts, feelings and experiences that play a part in how we think. In the area of the country that we live on.. we are much more liberal than other parts of the country. I say.. so what if someone was a member of a erotic club or not. So what if they are into the swinging lifestyle. It is their choice.. not mine. Others see this as a slam on him and a horrible thing to say about someone. I feel that it HAS to be part of the conversation because Nicholas was either interested in it or already doing it. It clearly shows a state of mind.. IMO. Does it make me some pervert because I am asking to put it into the big picture? Why is it okay to talk about it only in the context that Christine found out about it and killed him that night in a fit of rage over it?? We can't have it both ways.. we talk about it.. in regards to Christine's guilt.. but not in regards to him leaving on his own or being a victim by someone elses hand? That makes no sense to me and makes me then wonder.. if people want the truth or if they are just looking for anything that makes Christine look guilty.

I have NEVER slammed one person for looking into Christine's inconsistancies. I would ask for you to show me one time. The only time I ever say anything about it is when people embellish the facts to make something look different than it actually is... where she is concerened. AND I only do this because there are so many that will not accept that Nicholas could have been having extra marital affairs and YES that "could" have lead to him wanting to walk away from his life. That "could" have led to someone wanting to harm him. It is another theory. It has been said on here that she was the one that was involved in the extra curricular activites (any NOBODY says a word.. so, it is okay to talk about it regard to her but not him?).. so, I ask.. show me some evidence to show that we could jump to that conclusion. Everything about her and what she has said.. shows that is not her style. It has been said that SHE was the one that had a connnection to the condos in FW. There is absolutely no where that shows a connection to her and those condos. She also said that she nor Nicholas (that she was aware of) had any reason to be in that area and she had only ever been down that way for shopping a couple of times. But.. still both of those things and others have been posted here as fact.

We should ALL be able to talk about our thoughts or what we know... without fear of degradation or humilation.. without being places into any clique of people.

You're so right, what a great post Mystery...

Christine has just been raked through the coals! You can pick apart everything someone says and come up with some explanation for it that is devious, but that is just a fantasy. IMO there is a proper way to analyze a case, and that is using logical deduction and analysis, and I don't see nearly enough of that here when it comes to analyzing Christine. I've seen many hurtful things being said without justification. And it upsets me to see any person be treated that way.

There are two criteria that are especially important to use when analyzing a case, the first is understanding how to analyze something logically, and the second is, learning how to be objective and impartial. These skills can in many ways be learned and many people in this case IMO could benefit from learning how to pick apart something and analyze it logically, and learning how to be more objective and not let personal feelings and biases get in the way.

Another thing I see on this board sometimes is people doing the same thing to Christine that they say she is doing that makes her suspicious. For instance, it's been said here that Christine has an agenda and is a pathological liar, but sadly many people here are the ones who really do seem to have an agenda and that is to devalue Christine and I have seen some terrible things stated about her as truth, which just have not been proved to be true. Isn't that akin to lying?

It sure appears to me that people who do this have much buried anger, and for whatever reason Christine and the people who defend her have become a target for it.

I don't think anything you say to the people who want to see Christine as all bad and Nicholas as all good is going to make a difference. It's just no use.

With all the meanness and irrationality on this board, it's not healthy for me to be here, physically or spiritually. Some of the stuff that is said, it gets my stomach in a knot.

Be Well

Many Blessings

IMO MOO

[elf999]

I worry about you.

And you should!!!

[AJandTam]

There was another body found that has not been identified as far as I know. That was at pier 52 in Seattle.

Thanks, News got so slow, that I ended up moving on to the A case.

[Cheri_G]

And you should!!!

Hmmmm...does this mean that you admit that you and others are using her? Taking advantage of her kindness?

[elf999]

Hmmmm...does this mean that you admit that you and others are using her? Taking advantage of her kindness?

How on earth would you think I would be using Mysteryphobia?

I simply meant that she is a formidable and wonderful force here on the board, and you should worry about her because of this, and hopefully her thoughts and opinions will prevail and really help to find Nicholas.

Wow. Is all I can say.

Many Blessings

IMO MOO

[elf999]

Hmmmm...does this mean that you admit that you and others are using her? Taking advantage of her kindness?

Ahh, I see, could you be trying to separate Mystery from her allies by pitting us against each other?

Wow. Wow.

Many Blessings,

IMO, MOO

[Cheri_G]

How on earth would you think I would be using Mysteryphobia?

I simply meant that she is a formidable and wonderful force here on the board, and you should worry about her because of this, and hopefully her thoughts and opinions will prevail and really help to find Nicholas.

Wow. Is all I can say.


Many Blessings

IMO MOO

"Wow" is right!

What you said whether you realize it or not is that I'm right.

Thank you.

[elf999]

Any kind of control and manipulation on this board is one of the things that gets my stomach in a knot.

I prefer honest conversation in the name of helping people.

BBL

Much love to all

IMO MOO

[Cheri_G]

Ahh, I see, could you be trying to separate Mystery from her allies by pitting us against each other?

Wow. Wow.

Many Blessings,

IMO, MOO

Interesting.... you consider her your warrior and are afraid I'm seperating her from your army.

MP, for me you are just the example, I mean nothing personal, but apparently our frined elf believes you to be their slave and is confident you'll do whatever they ask of you.

and this is why I worry.....

[elf999]

Interesting.... you consider her your warrior and are afraid I'm seperating her from your army.

MP, for me you are just the example, I mean nothing personal, but apparently our frined elf believes you to be their slave and is confident you'll do whatever they ask of you.

and this is why I worry.....


I was meditating and finally think I understand the nature of your posts to Mysteryphobia about me.

IMO It appears that you are trying to "warn" MysteryPhobia I am Christine or someone associated with her.

Listen, my friend, I'm just a person that comes from the NE United States. I'm female, age, between 40-90. I have both an interest in psychology and human nature, and an occasional interest in missing persons cases.

I'm particularly drawn to this case for many reasons, one of the initial reasons was when I first noticed Christine being bashed and blamed for so many things right after Nicholas went missing. It really affected me because there was a time in my life, quite a long time ago, when the same thing happened to me, I was bashed and blamed for things that weren't my fault, and accused of having evil and bad motivations for things, it was a family situation, and it really damaged me. So I know from personal experience that this kind of treatment of people can really be damaging.

From the beginning I have read off and on about this case, and let me tell you, the dynamics of what has gone on on the Bulletin Boards is just as interesting, if not more so, than the case itself.

I don't have any personal knowledge of the case, I live on the other side of the country. I know no one associated with the case, nor have I ever spoken to anyone at all involved in it, including any detectives nor anyone else involved in it.

That's who I am. It would be nice if some thoughts or ideas I have about the case help just a little, anyway. I can't post much though because it's very time consuming, and can be very upsetting and stressful at times, too.

So that's who I really am, believe it or not. I have no more time nor energy to defend or explain myself, so don't expect me to. Thanks.


Many Blessings

IMO MOO

[Starkist]

I don't believe stifling anyone's opinions or changing someone's post or telling them to shut up or thinking your opinion is the only one that is right, helps anything. If this forum is turning your stomach, you need to step away. It's not healthy for you to be here. I hope you recover well.

[CC I See]

I don't believe stifling anyone's opinions or changing someone's post or telling them to shut up or thinking your opinion is the only one that is right, helps anything. If this forum is turning your stomach, you need to step away. It's not healthy for you to be here. I hope you recover well.

Ah, a new poster. Welcome to the board so glad that you found us. This case has been a troubling one from day one... with so little information and lots of alligations to go on. You opinions and insight will be most appreciated. What do you think happend to Nicolas as to why he has been missing for over a year? Having you been keeping up with the case?

[Starkist]

Me and some friends were following the Caylee Anthony case but there has been a lull in information lately so I decided to look around and see if Nicholas is still missing. I had heard some year old bones were found and wondered if they were his. Does anyone know? I haven't seen any definite answers anywhere on that.

I don't really have any opinion about what happened to Nicholas but I do think his wife knows more than she is saying. She's obviously trying to tell us through her biblical worded posts. Someone with some bible savvy should put them all together and decipher her code. I'll bet there are a bunch of answers within them.

[CC I See]

Me and some friends were following the Caylee Anthony case but there has been a lull in information lately so I decided to look around and see if Nicholas is still missing. I had heard some year old bones were found and wondered if they were his. Does anyone know? I haven't seen any definite answers anywhere on that.

I don't really have any opinion about what happened to Nicholas but I do think his wife knows more than she is saying. She's obviously trying to tell us through her biblical worded posts. Someone with some bible savvy should put them all together and decipher her code. I'll bet there are a bunch of answers within them.

Great post...sounds like you have some knowledge of the case. Many people have said that she might know more than what she has told LE about why he might be missing. She said right when he went missing that he would never desert her or their children. When did she change her mind and start saying that he voluntarly left her and the kids?

[Starkist]

I think she changed her mind when the investigation started heating up and people started looking at her. People began realizing she had been scamming them for their money and sympathy. She wanted the focus off of herself of course. By making Nicholas out to be the bad guy, the sympathy returns.

[CC I See]

I think she changed her mind when the investigation started heating up and people started looking at her. People began realizing she had been scamming them for their money and sympathy. She wanted the focus off of herself of course. By making Nicholas out to be the bad guy, the sympathy returns.

Like diversion... sort of like Dru Peterson, he does everything to keep the spotlight on himself and not on what he may have done. Just curious, how was she scamming people? What was Nicolas suppose to have done? Sorry, it's been awhile and I have to catch back up.

[Starkist]

She said she paid her mortgage with the donations she received but public record clearly shows she did not. After taking all that money from people, she up and disappeared from the public eye. Then she came back with her divorce and her claim Nicholas had been living an alternative sordid life and abused her and their kids. Now I see she remarried some chapel minister or something. I guess she used the donations to fund her divorce and pay for her honeymoon.

[CC I See]

She said she paid her mortgage with the donations she received but public record clearly shows she did not. After taking all that money from people, she up and disappeared from the public eye. Then she came back with her divorce and her claim Nicholas had been living an alternative sordid life and abused her and their kids. Now I see she remarried some chapel minister or something. I guess she used the donations to fund her divorce and pay for her honeymoon.

I suppose good Christian people feel the need to help by donating to whoever they want to but it seems that it's not a good idea because there is no accountability. Did she use any of the money to help search for her husband when she still wanted to find him?

[Starkist]

I suppose good Christian people feel the need to help by donating to whoever they want to but it seems that it's not a good idea because there is no accountability. Did she use any of the money to help search for her husband when she still wanted to find him?

Did she even search for him? Last I read, people printed up their own flyers and went out posting them around town on their own dime. I think the reward for information fund was also an outside donation from a couple of people or businesses but it never got up to more than $15,000. Pretty sad she wasn't out pleading for more than just donations for herself. Did she ever have the baby or was that all a hoax?

[SilverDove]

The CFC fan club members are all fixated on Nicholas' sexual behaviour, and have spent countless words discussing whether he went to the Wet Spot; titillating over naked photos of someone they want desperately to believe is NF; searching adult sites and ruminating about his intimate encounters with males and/or females. Hell, what about group sex?

We have heard these theories month after month after month. They originated from the CF fan club.

When someone volunteers to go to the Wet Spot to look for Nicholas, well, that tells us more about the volunteer than about the missing man.

The fact that many or few people engage in an alternate sexual lifestyle is not relevant to the discussion. Assuming to know what would or wouldn't shock me is taking this conversation to a personal level that is totally not appropriate.

And check your assumptions. I did not accuse SD of anything other than continuing to bring up a fascination with the Wet Spot. It's just........weird.

I find it interesting that details of the Nicholas' life which might lead to an idea of what happened to him and/or where he might be at this time are seen as off limits but every personal detail about Christine is seen as totally open even when they are totally made up.

If Nicholas had other partners that Christine didn't know about until after he lift it would seem to follow that he might have had people that would have hide him and maybe even helped him leave Washington without notice. Finding these people might lead to where Nicholas is.

I'm not a member of CFC fan club as you call it I think she made a huge number of mistakes as both a wife and a wife of a missing person. At the same time I don't think that makes her a murderer which seems to be the directions the kill CFC club seems to be going.

I'm sorry if you fear going or checking what is needed to find Nicholas but some of us really would like to find him not just hang Christine.

Remember if the wonderful track coach Scully hadn't had his personal life brought to life even now people might not know who killed him.

[Musterion]

If you had been told about the San Diego information.. then you would know that it was not a matter of going down there and looking for him.

As much as people want to say this information came from Christine.. it is not fact. It may have been brought here but it was already being talking about on another site. People on yayhooray were posting on Nicholas' thread on there. THEY said that they knew people from the b3s site that HAD talked to him and saw him since he went missing. Some of those posts have since been deleted but some that elude to it is still on the site. The detective was given this information and he was going to try to get subpoena's for that site since most people are not privy to what is on there. You have to be invited to be a member there by another memeber. Nicholas was and most likely is still a member. The owner of the B3s site and Nicholas were relatively close.. even if through the internet.. they were friends on facebook and twitter also. There are laws and since there is no crime.. you can not subpoena information from that site since we all have a constitutional rights to privacy. So.. is the information there? It could be.. but we will never know unless one of those people on that site start talking again.. and since they aren't.. and have chose to delete their information.. there is no specific place to search.. therefore.. nowhere to send you to look.

Hi M.!,

I'm trying to catch up reading the posts from the last few days. I see I've missed a bit.

One thing I wanted to say is that I agree that there are privacy laws and that it is not a crime to disappear. But, it is a crime to abandon your family, those that are dependent financially on you.

It is a Class C felony. Class C felony is maximum penalty 5 years in prison and $10,000 fine.

Remember that statute we'd talked about months ago?

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=26.20.030

RCW 26.20.030
Family abandonment — Penalty — Exception.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, any person who has a child dependent upon him or her for care, education or support and deserts such child in any manner whatever with intent to abandon it is guilty of the crime of family abandonment.

(2) A parent of a newborn who transfers the newborn to a qualified person at an appropriate location pursuant to RCW 13.34.360 is not subject to criminal liability under this section.

(3) The crime of family abandonment is a class C felony under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

It would seem to me, JMHO, that if there is a chance that Nicholas is on the B3 site and people know that he is alive and are covering for him, they may have some legal troubles of their own.

I would think that LE would approach it as a family abandonment issue to get the subpoena, not as a missing person.

Also, IMHO, if Christine knows this law, which I believe she does, as we've posted it before here when she has been reading, she would pull out every stop, every legal tool she could use to make Nicholas come forward.

My conclusion is that LE isn't making the effort to subpoena B3 because they know Nicholas is not posting there. I may wrong.

IMO.
M.

[Maranatha]

This whole thread should be shut down until there's some sort of a statement from LE. Now there's "two" new posters talking to herself, oops, themselves. This has turned into bullying by a group with the most absurd and more importantly, unfounded accusations and insults, not just against the wife but now other posters not walking in their "light", along with posted fantasies over the man who is missing that are just IMO, downright creepy.

MOO.

[SilverDove]

Hi M.!,

I'm trying to catch up reading the posts from the last few days. I see I've missed a bit.

One thing I wanted to say is that I agree that there are privacy laws and that it is not a crime to disappear. But, it is a crime to abandon your family, those that are dependent financially on you.

It is a Class C felony. Class C felony is maximum penalty 5 years in prison and $10,000 fine.

Remember that statute we'd talked about months ago?

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=26.20.030

RCW 26.20.030
Family abandonment — Penalty — Exception.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, any person who has a child dependent upon him or her for care, education or support and deserts such child in any manner whatever with intent to abandon it is guilty of the crime of family abandonment.

(2) A parent of a newborn who transfers the newborn to a qualified person at an appropriate location pursuant to RCW 13.34.360 is not subject to criminal liability under this section.

(3) The crime of family abandonment is a class C felony under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

It would seem to me, JMHO, that if there is a chance that Nicholas is on the B3 site and people know that he is alive and are covering for him, they may have some legal troubles of their own.

I would think that LE would approach it as a family abandonment issue to get the subpoena, not as a missing person.

Also, IMHO, if Christine knows this law, which I believe she does, as we've posted it before here when she has been reading, she would pull out every stop, every legal tool she could use to make Nicholas come forward.

My conclusion is that LE isn't making the effort to subpoena B3 because they know Nicholas is not posting there. I may wrong.

IMO.
M.

Interesting post but it would seem that until they know how he went missing they can't charge him with a crime and until they charge him with a crime they can't get a subpoena. As to those on the B3 I don't see the Sheriff trying to travel all over the world to arrest people for not telling them he was posting there.

As to them knowing he isn't posting there I'm not sure that would be possible. I have gone through every contact I have world wide to try to get on that board even to the point of having some hacker friends send messages through some of the underground irc channels and couldn't get in. So I don't think LE knows one way or the other if he is posting and have no way to check.

So in the end he may or may not be posting but other then the members of B3 I don't think any outsiders knows.

[Musterion]

Interesting post but it would seem that until they know how he went missing they can't charge him with a crime and until they charge him with a crime they can't get a subpoena. As to those on the B3 I don't see the Sheriff trying to travel all over the world to arrest people for not telling them he was posting there.

As to them knowing he isn't posting there I'm not sure that would be possible. I have gone through every contact I have world wide to try to get on that board even to the point of having some hacker friends send messages through some of the underground irc channels and couldn't get in. So I don't think LE knows one way or the other if he is posting and have no way to check.

So in the end he may or may not be posting but other then the members of B3 I don't think any outsiders knows.

Hi SD!

I don't see that law as being defined on 'how' the parent left but more 'is that parent gone', the parent who was the sole provider.

People, like Christine, can legally divorce a missing person. The presumption being that the missing person is not interested to respond to a divorce or custody. When, in fact, that person could be dead.

I believe that same spirit of the law could be used to charge Nicholas with family abandonment, opening doors to where he is through subpoenas.

JMO.
M.

[Leanne Weich]

Was bored today and landed up reading this:

http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2008/05/christine-francisco.html

I'm sure many of you have read it before but I did find it interesting so thought I'd post it for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

[SilverDove]

Hi SD!

I don't see that law as being defined on 'how' the parent left but more 'is that parent gone', the parent who was the sole provider.

People, like Christine, can legally divorce a missing person. The presumption being that the missing person is not interested to respond to a divorce or custody. When, in fact, that person could be dead.

I believe that same spirit of the law could be used to charge Nicholas with family abandonment, opening doors to where he is through subpoenas.

JMO.
M.
I would love if they would do that but divorce in Washington state is a no fault divorce state. Christine didn't have to have any reason for divorce she just had to say irreconcilable difference. I'm guessing the reason the rest is there is because if there are children you have to file a parenting plan. By filing that he abandoned them my guess is she was no longer required to file the parenting plan and was given full custody.

The police are less likely to file charges until they know what happened I don't think they want charges hanging on the books any more then they want missing people hanging around. If and when he shows up there will be time to file. As to the subpoena I think it would be very hard to get one just because they think he might be or was posting there. The owner of the board and the people posting have a strong right to privacy and it isn't all that simple to get one.

[Cheri_G]

Interesting post but it would seem that until they know how he went missing they can't charge him with a crime and until they charge him with a crime they can't get a subpoena. As to those on the B3 I don't see the Sheriff trying to travel all over the world to arrest people for not telling them he was posting there.

As to them knowing he isn't posting there I'm not sure that would be possible. I have gone through every contact I have world wide to try to get on that board even to the point of having some hacker friends send messages through some of the underground irc channels and couldn't get in. So I don't think LE knows one way or the other if he is posting and have no way to check.

So in the end he may or may not be posting but other then the members of B3 I don't think any outsiders knows.

I don't know if Nick could post openly as himself even on a forum as tightly guarded as B3 without LE finding out.

If LE contacted the site administrators and asked them, I would hope they would tell the truth.

There's also nothing to stop anyone there from calling in an anonymous tip.

[Cheri_G]

Hi SD!

I don't see that law as being defined on 'how' the parent left but more 'is that parent gone', the parent who was the sole provider.

People, like Christine, can legally divorce a missing person. The presumption being that the missing person is not interested to respond to a divorce or custody. When, in fact, that person could be dead.

I believe that same spirit of the law could be used to charge Nicholas with family abandonment, opening doors to where he is through subpoenas.

JMO.
M.

If Christine (and maybe she's done this) asked for child support and asked that it be collected by garnishing his wages, would that put some sort of flag on his SS number?

[SilverDove]

I don't know if Nick could post openly as himself even on a forum as tightly guarded as B3 without LE finding out.

If LE contacted the site administrators and asked them, I would hope they would tell the truth.

There's also nothing to stop anyone there from calling in an anonymous tip.

You might check your own board's TOS if the site administrator was to sent any information to a third party that could be used to identify one of the posters without a subpoena or permission from the user they could be in legal trouble. No reputable administrator gives out information without a subpoena. This is especially true of a closed board like B3.

[Musterion]

I would love if they would do that but divorce in Washington state is a no fault divorce state. Christine didn't have to have any reason for divorce she just had to say irreconcilable difference. I'm guessing the reason the rest is there is because if there are children you have to file a parenting plan. By filing that he abandoned them my guess is she was no longer required to file the parenting plan and was given full custody.

The police are less likely to file charges until they know what happened I don't think they want charges hanging on the books any more then they want missing people hanging around. If and when he shows up there will be time to file. As to the subpoena I think it would be very hard to get one just because they think he might be or was posting there. The owner of the board and the people posting have a strong right to privacy and it isn't all that simple to get one.

(Bolding Mine)

Exactly my point.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

If Christine (and maybe she's done this) asked for child support and asked that it be collected by garnishing his wages, would that put some sort of flag on his SS number?


I would hope so, Cheri. But, with the overwhelming amount of collections I don't know that they would even get to it. Sadly.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

You might check your own board's TOS if the site administrator was to sent any information to a third party that could be used to identify one of the posters without a subpoena or permission from the user they could be in legal trouble. No reputable administrator gives out information without a subpoena. This is especially true of a closed board like B3.

I would wonder why an owner or administrator would want to hold back information from a member who is or could be in a legal bind?

Are these B3 members some sort of gang that takes a sworn blood oath to protect each other at the cost of their own freedom? Are they willing to be jailed to protect a man who wants to avoid child support? Why? Why would they do that? And, even if the threat is not to be jailed, why would they risk any legal dealings?

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

I would wonder why an owner or administrator would want to hold back information from a member who is or could be in a legal bind?

Are these B3 members some sort of gang that takes a sworn blood oath to protect each other at the cost of their own freedom? Are they willing to be jailed to protect a man who wants to avoid child support? Why? Why would they do that? And, even if the threat is not to be jailed, why would they risk any legal dealings?

IMO.
M.

Tos or terms of service are a legally binding contract between the users of a board and the owner of the board. Now do you just break the law any time you think you have a good reason? Would you sign a contract and then break it?

You do have a flair for drama. At this point there is no legal reason for them to violate the contract they agreed to. Is it really that strange that contracts are legally binding?

[MystryPhobia]

Interesting.... you consider her your warrior and are afraid I'm seperating her from your army.

MP, for me you are just the example, I mean nothing personal, but apparently our frined elf believes you to be their slave and is confident you'll do whatever they ask of you.

and this is why I worry.....
For you, I am just the example? You post how I can not and do not have an original thought.. that I am just a puppet on a string fro Elf, SD, and Christine and then say there is nothing personal about it?

Am I in the twilight zone?

Now people are posting that are OBVIOUSLY other posters and saying that they are new here? What the heck? Are we 12 and just going to play games or what?

I thought this thread was about Nicholas and everyone being able to voice their opinions whether other people agree with them or not. I am absolutely in shock right now and extremely disappointed!

[Cheri_G]

You might check your own board's TOS if the site administrator was to sent any information to a third party that could be used to identify one of the posters without a subpoena or permission from the user they could be in legal trouble. No reputable administrator gives out information without a subpoena. This is especially true of a closed board like B3.

I wasn't suggesting anyone give out his address or any other personal contact information.

I was thinking a simple yes or no if asked if Nick was posting there. I don't think that would violate any privacy laws.

[SilverDove]

I wasn't suggesting anyone give out his address or any other personal contact information.

I was thinking a simple yes or no if asked if Nick was posting there. I don't think that would violate any privacy laws.

But we don't know the full TOS for that board and since it is closed tighter then I have seen in almost any board maybe even saying yes or no would be against the TOS. Have you been over there it is impossible to even try to register or see anything on there. I went over it with a fine tooth comb. I have even heard you have to know the owner personally now days to get in.

[Starkist]

This whole thread should be shut down until there's some sort of a statement from LE. Now there's "two" new posters talking to herself, oops, themselves. This has turned into bullying by a group with the most absurd and more importantly, unfounded accusations and insults, not just against the wife but now other posters not walking in their "light", along with posted fantasies over the man who is missing that are just IMO, downright creepy.

MOO.

Where are you reading? I want to see these juicy bits you are referring to. :w00t:

[Cheri_G]

I would hope so, Cheri. But, with the overwhelming amount of collections I don't know that they would even get to it. Sadly.

IMO.
M.

It's been a while since I've done payroll for anyone but as I recall, when a company here has a new hire they have to send in a form to the state notifying them of the new hire and if the new hire has a child support order for their wages to be garnished then generally a notice from whichever state issued the order arrives within a couple weeks.

[MystryPhobia]

I would wonder why an owner or administrator would want to hold back information from a member who is or could be in a legal bind?

Are these B3 members some sort of gang that takes a sworn blood oath to protect each other at the cost of their own freedom? Are they willing to be jailed to protect a man who wants to avoid child support? Why? Why would they do that? And, even if the threat is not to be jailed, why would they risk any legal dealings?

IMO.
M.

They can not just compel the owner of that site to hand over anything. He has constitutional rights to privacy. He has chose to make it not accessable to the general public. LE can not just tell him that he has to hand it over. They can ask him.. he can say "no, he doesn't post here anymore" and they wouldn't be able to do anything different. The supreme court has recently heard a case similar to this one and ruled in favor of the site owner.

Nicholas is not a criminal. Abandonment charges could be brought but they haven't. I, personally have never heard of anyone being charged with abandonment. There are ALOT of dead beat dads (and moms)out there that are not charged with it criminally. It may be on the books.. but I just don't believe it gets used often. Even IF they charged Nicholas with a crime.. I doubt that the court could compel the owner of that site to disclose anything. JMO

[Cheri_G]

But we don't know the full TOS for that board and since it is closed tighter then I have seen in almost any board maybe even saying yes or no would be against the TOS. Have you been over there it is impossible to even try to register or see anything on there. I went over it with a fine tooth comb. I have even heard you have to know the owner personally now days to get in.

I have looked at it. I'm a little curious about how they decide who to invite to join them.

[MystryPhobia]

It's been a while since I've done payroll for anyone but as I recall, when a company here has a new hire they have to send in a form to the state notifying them of the new hire and if the new hire has a child support order for their wages to be garnished then generally a notice from whichever state issued the order arrives within a couple weeks.

Key words "to the state". I do payroll and you have to go on the state website and register your new hires social security number. It is run by each states Support Enforcement. I don't believe there is any cross checking by states. I would be surprised if there was anyway. If he worked in another state.. it could get tricky and IMO LE would have to have access to social security records before they could check it and I am not sure if that is possible or not.

And.. even that state system has flaws. My sisters ex doesn't ever pay his child support.. gets a new job everytime they catch up to him and it is not within a couple of weeks.. more like months before anything is done.

[MystryPhobia]

<respectfully snipped for space>



Sorry to rant, BTW MP, Taxes. Federal Taxes. We all have to pay them. We all have to File. That is the best national link up of any system we have.
Yes we all do pay federal taxes. The thing with federal taxes is that employers pay into an account every month or bi weekly.. depending on the amount of your transfers. You don't give the IRS anymore information except the amount that you are transferring... and how much of it was withheld for fereral taxes.. how much for medicare.. how much for social security... actually you don't HAVE to do that but it makes keeping the records a little easier. When you file your quarterly reports.. which is basically just a form that makes sure that you have paid in the correct amount and closes out the quarter.. again.. you do not put in employee social security numbers on this form. The ONLY time that you enter an employee SS# is when you file unemployment with your state and at the end of the year when our file your w/2's with the social security admin.

Edited to add.. it isn't actually the end of the year since employers have til the end of March to file their w/2s if they are filing electronically.

So.. realistically.. if he is working.. only recently would they have any record of it on a federal level.

[Cheri_G]

Key words "to the state". I do payroll and you have to go on the state website and register your new hires social security number. It is run by each states Support Enforcement. I don't believe there is any cross checking by states. I would be surprised if there was anyway. If he worked in another state.. it could get tricky and IMO LE would have to have access to social security records before they could check it and I am not sure if that is possible or not.

And.. even that state system has flaws. My sisters ex doesn't ever pay his child support.. gets a new job everytime they catch up to him and it is not within a couple of weeks.. more like months before anything is done.

I know for a fact that not all the notices I use to receive telling us to start withholding were for support orders issued in this state so there must be some sort of cross checking in place.

[MystryPhobia]

I know for a fact that not all the notices I use to receive telling us to start withholding were for support orders issued in this state so there must be some sort of cross checking in place.

OK.. yeah, people get child support withheld out of their checks in every state.. like the state of Ohio could come and tell me that one of my employees owes child support in that state for a child they have there.. and I would then have to send the amound deducted to them BUT that is only if they know where they are. The majority of parents don't just disappear. The other parent and child knows where to find them or where to at least look. That isn't the case here. The support enforcement sites are set up through a state egency.. not a federal one.

[Cheri_G]

OK.. yeah, people get child support withheld out of their checks in every state.. like the state of Ohio could come and tell me that one of my employees owes child support in that state for a child they have there.. and I would then have to send the amound deducted to them BUT that is only if they know where they are. The majority of parents don't just disappear. The other parent and child knows where to find them or where to at least look. That isn't the case here. The support enforcement sites are set up through a state egency.. not a federal one.

There is the FCR.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cse/newhire/fcr/fcr.htm

The Federal Case Registry (FCR) contains state Child Support Enforcement (IV-D) and non IV-D case data and serves as a pointer system to help locate persons across state lines. Person data in the FCR are matched daily against employment data in the National Directory of New Hires (NDNH) and sent to states to facilitate case processing and increase collections, especially through automated income withholding. Additionally, matches are sent to states to inform them if a IV-D case participant in their state appears as a participant in a IV-D or non IV-D case in another state.

[Starkist]

bugout
Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 544

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkist
Where are you reading? I want to see these juicy bits you are referring to.

Lol I was reading back and thought of the starkist tuna ads juicy bits when I read your post. Hehe just needed a good laugh.

I have never seen any juicy bits about this case at all. In fact I've always felt it was quite sad, maybe I just commiserate or can ID with this case because I know how it feels.


I guess I should have said I was being sarcastic because I too have never seen any juicy bits or whatever fantasy thoughts that poster was referring to.

It's very sad when someone wants to take this board over and have it shut down because someone does not agree with them. People keep saying we have the right to post our opinions then turn around and tell us we can't post what we want if we're not supporting Christine. Are these people prepared if the case turns out that Christine did indeed cause harm whether directly or indirectly to her husband or forceably have him removed from her home? I don't think these people have imagined this part as they do not wish to think it could be possible. It is possible Nicholas has led a secret life although I am not sure what kind but I think it is more than likely that he is dead.

[MystryPhobia]

I guess I should have said I was being sarcastic because I too have never seen any juicy bits or whatever fantasy thoughts that poster was referring to.

It's very sad when someone wants to take this board over and have it shut down because someone does not agree with them. People keep saying we have the right to post our opinions then turn around and tell us we can't post what we want if we're not supporting Christine. Are these people prepared if the case turns out that Christine did indeed cause harm whether directly or indirectly to her husband or forceably have him removed from her home? I don't think these people have imagined this part as they do not wish to think it could be possible. It is possible Nicholas has led a secret life although I am not sure what kind but I think it is more than likely that he is dead.

who is trying to shut the board down?

Funny.. thought you just got here from the Caylee thread because you were bored and wanted to know if Nicholas had been found yet... yet you have only 7 posts and they are all on Nicholas' thread.

Why not just be honest.. is this a game!

[Starkist]

who is trying to shut the board down?

Funny.. thought you just got here from the Caylee thread because you were bored and wanted to know if Nicholas had been found yet... yet you have only 7 posts and they are all on Nicholas' thread.

Why not just be honest.. is this a game!

It's right here:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showpost.php?p=13100873&postcount=211

Why are you so paranoid about my presence? I don't have to post to read here. I wasn't here on the Caylee board either. I was with a different board.

[MystryPhobia]

There is the FCR.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cse/newhire/fcr/fcr.htm

Thanks for finding that. I had no idea one existed.. still saying.. I don't enter anything into a federal data base.. I enter it for the state of WA support enforcement. They may cross check it but I have a feeling that is a big undertaking and doesn't take into account those that are self employed.

And.. as I have stated before.. you are suppose report new hires but who knows how many employers actually do. If you are working on a 1099 or under your own tax ID number there would be no record of that until you filed a tax return or the person you contracted with turned in their 1099's... and I highly doubt there is a system to cross check all of those records for with support enforcement records.. but who knows.

[Cheri_G]

Thanks for finding that. I had no idea one existed.. still saying.. I don't enter anything into a federal data base.. I enter it for the state of WA support enforcement. They may cross check it but I have a feeling that is a big undertaking and doesn't take into account those that are self employed.

And.. as I have stated before.. you are suppose report new hires but who knows how many employers actually do. If you are working on a 1099 or under your own tax ID number there would be no record of that until you filed a tax return or the person you contracted with turned in their 1099's... and I highly doubt there is a system to cross check all of those records for with support enforcement records.. but who knows.

I didn't know about it either until tonight when I started googling for info about how they can enforce cases where more than one state is involved.

When you mentioned your sister's ex, I realized there had to be something in place. Its a common occurance that some peeps will quit as soon as the support order catches up with them and I think we can safely assume these types don't notify their exes or the O of CS when they get work.

I would think most employers do report their new hires. Its required by law and there are penalties if they get audited and its discovered they don't.

I think you're probably right about 1099 people.

[Musterion]

Tos or terms of service are a legally binding contract between the users of a board and the owner of the board. Now do you just break the law any time you think you have a good reason? Would you sign a contract and then break it?

You do have a flair for drama. At this point there is no legal reason for them to violate the contract they agreed to. Is it really that strange that contracts are legally binding?

LOL! I was being facetious!

My point is why in the world would anyone want to protect Nicholas from paying child support? Nicholas hasn't murdered anyone and has people convinced he's being framed! IMO, there would be zero need to 'hide' him.

As far as a contract being binding, well, marriage is a contract and over half of Americans break that contract, don't they? There are exceptions to contracts and rules, IMO.

ALL JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

They can not just compel the owner of that site to hand over anything. He has constitutional rights to privacy. He has chose to make it not accessable to the general public. LE can not just tell him that he has to hand it over. They can ask him.. he can say "no, he doesn't post here anymore" and they wouldn't be able to do anything different. The supreme court has recently heard a case similar to this one and ruled in favor of the site owner.

Nicholas is not a criminal. Abandonment charges could be brought but they haven't. I, personally have never heard of anyone being charged with abandonment. There are ALOT of dead beat dads (and moms)out there that are not charged with it criminally. It may be on the books.. but I just don't believe it gets used often. Even IF they charged Nicholas with a crime.. I doubt that the court could compel the owner of that site to disclose anything. JMO

Yes and Christine and the three children have constitutional rights as well. Do the rights to privacy of an individual who may know the status of a missing person who has abandoned their family trump her rights and the children's?

Christine has an attorney for family law, I would suggest consulting him.

The law is on the books for a reason. Not just for looks, IMO. Christine has a right to pursue that law. And, again, I'd encourage her to do that.

IMO.
M.

[MystryPhobia]

Yes and Christine and the three children have constitutional rights as well. Do the rights to privacy of an individual who may know the status of a missing person who has abandoned their family trump her rights and the children's?

Christine has an attorney for family law, I would suggest consulting him.

The law is on the books for a reason. Not just for looks, IMO. Christine has a right to pursue that law. And, again, I'd encourage her to do that.

IMO.
M.

Hi M!

I am sure it is there for a reason.. I just have never heard anyone ever being charged with it. I don't know why they don't charge more people with it. Is it a criminal or civil matter?

I think half of the problem would be.. how do you charge a man with a crime if you do not know if he is alive or dead. Doesn't seem right to charge him with abandonment if someone killed him. Talk about adding salt to a wound for family and friends but I really have no clue about any of it.. just going off the top of my head about it.

Can he still be charged with abandonment if the children are adopted? (if that is even possible while they have a missing father) Would support enforcement continue to go after him if the the children are adopted? I wonder.

[MystryPhobia]

Hi again M-

I just went and was trying to research child abandonment cases in WA. I can't really find any that have anything to do with people leaving their children with a spouse. Most of them are parents leaving children in the home alone.. without an adult.. and not coming back for an extended amount of time... which places the life of the children in danger. And.. cases where children are dropped off in a dumpster or something similar.. where there is no one to care for the children. So, I guess I was wrong.. it is a used law. I am still looking to see if I can find something similar to this case and what the outcome of that was.. just as a reference.

[SilverDove]

LOL! I was being facetious!

My point is why in the world would anyone want to protect Nicholas from paying child support? Nicholas hasn't murdered anyone and has people convinced he's being framed! IMO, there would be zero need to 'hide' him.

As far as a contract being binding, well, marriage is a contract and over half of Americans break that contract, don't they? There are exceptions to contracts and rules, IMO.

ALL JMO.
M.

The other side of the coin is he hasn't done anything so why would they feel compelled to contact the LE. I'm not sure that people using a message board would feel any need to contact anyone over a poster, well other then on a crime board. If he isn't posting there why won't the owner just reply to emails say no we haven't seen him on the board?

Another thing is someone could have contacted LE but they haven't been able to get an answer from the owner and/or haven't been able to convince a judge that a subpoena is needed since even if there is someone posting using his information it wouldn't have to be him.

[Starkist]

Desertion is frequently coupled with nonsupport, which is a failure to provide monetary resources for those to whom such an obligation is due. Nonsupport is a crime in a majority of states but prosecutions are uncommon.

In the modern, no-fault divorce, desertion is not recognized, although the marital partners may have been living apart prior to the divorce.


http://www.answers.com/topic/desertion

[Musterion]

Hi M!

I am sure it is there for a reason.. I just have never heard anyone ever being charged with it. I don't know why they don't charge more people with it. Is it a criminal or civil matter?

I think half of the problem would be.. how do you charge a man with a crime if you do not know if he is alive or dead. Doesn't seem right to charge him with abandonment if someone killed him. Talk about adding salt to a wound for family and friends but I really have no clue about any of it.. just going off the top of my head about it.

Can he still be charged with abandonment if the children are adopted? (if that is even possible while they have a missing father) Would support enforcement continue to go after him if the the children are adopted? I wonder.

Hi M.!

If a person can be sued for divorce and they are missing, then I think that they would be able to charge that person for abandonment.

Maybe the laws need to be more specific.

I think if that person's children are adopted by someone else the legal obligation is gone. If there was back child support I imagine that could still be pursued to collect, though.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Hi M.!

If a person can be sued for divorce and they are missing, then I think that they would be able to charge that person for abandonment.

Maybe the laws need to be more specific.

I think if that person's children are adopted by someone else the legal obligation is gone. If there was back child support I imagine that could still be pursued to collect, though.

IMO.
M.

In the Seattle area with the Sound people go missing all the time in the water. Many of these bodies are wash 100 of miles away and many are never found. Depending on the scenario that Coast Guard comes up with some of these people may not be able to be declared dead for 7 years. Would it really be fair for the spouse to have to remain unmarried for 7 years because the person is most likely dead?

Another case I have heard of the man was married in the 70's in California. He moved back to Washington. He doesn't have his "wife's" SS number or anything but her name and hasn't heard from her in years if he wants to legally married he will have to divorce to be sure he isn't married to two woman at the same time.

The no fault divorce laws were created so that anyone can get a divorce without someone trying to stop them. There are many cases where people publish when they can't serve the person they are divorcing. So yes someone can be divorced without knowing where the person is or if they are even alive. It was created that way for a wide variety of reason.

On the other hand slapping someone with an abandonment charge when you aren't sure what happened is over kill. It wouldn't help anyone and would just create more unsolved cases. My thought would be that until they are able to close the missing case they don't want to create an abandonment case. Better to work on one at a time. Also until they have the evidence of what happened they really don't have anything to build a case with.

[Musterion]

In the Seattle area with the Sound people go missing all the time in the water. Many of these bodies are wash 100 of miles away and many are never found. Depending on the scenario that Coast Guard comes up with some of these people may not be able to be declared dead for 7 years. Would it really be fair for the spouse to have to remain unmarried for 7 years because the person is most likely dead?

Another case I have heard of the man was married in the 70's in California. He moved back to Washington. He doesn't have his "wife's" SS number or anything but her name and hasn't heard from her in years if he wants to legally married he will have to divorce to be sure he isn't married to two woman at the same time.

The no fault divorce laws were created so that anyone can get a divorce without someone trying to stop them. There are many cases where people publish when they can't serve the person they are divorcing. So yes someone can be divorced without knowing where the person is or if they are even alive. It was created that way for a wide variety of reason.

On the other hand slapping someone with an abandonment charge when you aren't sure what happened is over kill. It wouldn't help anyone and would just create more unsolved cases. My thought would be that until they are able to close the missing case they don't want to create an abandonment case. Better to work on one at a time. Also until they have the evidence of what happened they really don't have anything to build a case with.

I understand how and why the law came about for no fault divorces.

I think, IMO, if anyone would if they could slap an abandonment charge on a missing spouse, it would be Christine. What it tells me is that she isn't doing it for a reason. And, to me, it would be because it would not be a benefit to her.

I don't believe what you are saying is correct, SD. I don't think the law or Christine or most people who want their children to be provided for would care if their actions looked like overkill.

Maybe it takes proof, real proof, that that person abandoned them. And, maybe, Christine doesn't have that proof. Maybe she knows it would be fruitless to pursue abandonment because, maybe, she more than likely knows what happened to Nicholas, and it might just not be willful abandonment.

Maybe.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

I understand how and why the law came about for no fault divorces.

I think, IMO, if anyone would if they could slap an abandonment charge on a missing spouse, it would be Christine. What it tells me is that she isn't doing it for a reason. And, to me, it would be because it would not be a benefit to her.

I don't believe what you are saying is correct, SD. I don't think the law or Christine or most people who want their children to be provided for would care if their actions looked like overkill.

Maybe it takes proof, real proof, that that person abandoned them. And, maybe, Christine doesn't have that proof. Maybe she knows it would be fruitless to pursue abandonment because, maybe, she more than likely knows what happened to Nicholas, and it might just not be willful abandonment.

Maybe.

IMO.
M.

Let me try this again. Christine can't press criminal charges against Nicholas only the LE can do that. Until the LE can prove that Nicholas is alive they won't press charges because they have no proof that he abandoned anyone and pressing charges is all about proof. They may suspect that he is alive but without the proof there is no way to charge him. If and when they find out he is alive then they may press charges.

Now I don't know if there is a civil law about abandonment if there is then Christine could take him to court on that but I don't think she could get any more then the divorce gave him and without knowing where he is the judgment against him wouldn't be worth any more then the paper it was written on because there wouldn't be any more chance of collecting it then there is a way for her to collect what he owes her from the divorce. So there is no reason for her to go to the expense of an civil suit.

[Musterion]

Let me try this again. Christine can't press criminal charges against Nicholas only the LE can do that. Until the LE can prove that Nicholas is alive they won't press charges because they have no proof that he abandoned anyone and pressing charges is all about proof. They may suspect that he is alive but without the proof there is no way to charge him. If and when they find out he is alive then they may press charges.

Now I don't know if there is a civil law about abandonment if there is then Christine could take him to court on that but I don't think she could get any more then the divorce gave him and without knowing where he is the judgment against him wouldn't be worth any more then the paper it was written on because there wouldn't be any more chance of collecting it then there is a way for her to collect what he owes her from the divorce. So there is no reason for her to go to the expense of an civil suit.

Hi SD,

You can be as condescending as you want to be with me, I'm still going to be nice to you.

I would think that, as persuasive as Christine seems to be, she might be able to persuade LE to get that proof. But, IMO, that proof may never have existed.

JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Hi Cheri! Hope you are having a great spring/summer. Well, yes, I have a sinking heart that nothing, not a thing in relation to his real name has popped up.
I'm with M all the way, I do not believe this was "willful" abandonment and unless there was documented abuse, that will never hold up in a court of law. The only time it Does "stand" in this manner is when one parent, throws up their hands and does not appear.
Even the most heartless usually want their belongings in the garage.
:(

Hi Bug, my friend!

CC, (I just realized that Christine now has the initials of the might be soon to be charged with triple homicide of his wife and two children does, Chris Coleman :sad:) claims to have documented abuse of Nicholas to her/children.

IMO.
M.

[Starkist]

Let me try this again. Christine can't press criminal charges against Nicholas only the LE can do that. Until the LE can prove that Nicholas is alive they won't press charges because they have no proof that he abandoned anyone and pressing charges is all about proof. They may suspect that he is alive but without the proof there is no way to charge him. If and when they find out he is alive then they may press charges.

Now I don't know if there is a civil law about abandonment if there is then Christine could take him to court on that but I don't think she could get any more then the divorce gave him and without knowing where he is the judgment against him wouldn't be worth any more then the paper it was written on because there wouldn't be any more chance of collecting it then there is a way for her to collect what he owes her from the divorce. So there is no reason for her to go to the expense of an civil suit.

Christine can in fact press charges against Nicholas for abandonment/desertion. The crime of abandonment happened against her, she would be the victim if that so happened but again, she and LE would have to prove it was willful and without cause.

[Starkist]

I have always wanted to ask StarKist Tuna this question: Are you secretly a friend of Chicken of the Sea, and do you really work together?
(jk hehe)

:seeya:

UH OH my underwater cover has been blown!

[SilverDove]

Hi SD,

You can be as condescending as you want to be with me, I'm still going to be nice to you.

I would think that, as persuasive as Christine seems to be, she might be able to persuade LE to get that proof. But, IMO, that proof may never have existed.

JMO.
M.

Sorry I guess I'm getting gun shy about being misunderstood and having had a lot of misinformation about me brought in here because I'm guessing people either misread my posts or deliberately twisted them for some reason that I'm working at being more clear and I guess it is sounding condescending. Lots of twisted information now days.

[Cheri_G]

Hi Cheri! Hope you are having a great spring/summer. Well, yes, I have a sinking heart that nothing, not a thing in relation to his real name has popped up.
I'm with M all the way, I do not believe this was "willful" abandonment and unless there was documented abuse, that will never hold up in a court of law. The only time it Does "stand" in this manner is when one parent, throws up their hands and does not appear.
Even the most heartless usually want their belongings in the garage.
:(

Hi Bug,

I don't believe Nick intended to leave that night. However, at this point both options (Nick alive/Nick dead) are still possibilities until something comes along that clearly points more one way than the other.

Its assumed that if Nick left willingly, he has taken on a new identity. That may not be the case. The only PD that is looking for Nick is KCSO and according to them there is no longer an active investigation, though they follow up tips when received.

The people who know about Nick's case, the people that still keep it in mind are actually a very small group when you think about it. The national media attention his case received was brief.

Nick could conceivably move to another state and live as himself, using his real name, SSN, etc. and people may not know that he is considered a missing person. As long as he did not do anything to draw LE's attention he could go unnoticed indefinately.

If that is the case, then an order of support would be a way to possibly locate him.

[Cheri_G]

Christine can in fact press charges against Nicholas for abandonment/desertion. The crime of abandonment happened against her, she would be the victim if that so happened but again, she and LE would have to prove it was willful and without cause.

I might have this wrong but... I think Christine could file a complaint. Whether or not criminal charges were brought against Nick as a result of the complaint would be up to a DA.

[Musterion]

Sorry I guess I'm getting gun shy about being misunderstood and having had a lot of misinformation about me brought in here because I'm guessing people either misread my posts or deliberately twisted them for some reason that I'm working at being more clear and I guess it is sounding condescending. Lots of twisted information now days.

That's okay! I understand. I don't mind being challenged about my thoughts at all. It makes me think harder!

Thanks for the explanation, SD, not all people would care to answer as you did. Thank you for that.

IMO.
M.

[Starkist]

I might have this wrong but... I think Christine could file a complaint. Whether or not criminal charges were brought against Nick as a result of the complaint would be up to a DA.

Exactly. Anyone who feels a crime has been committed against them, can press charges/file a complaint but it has to be proven in order to arrest, indict and/or convict the person.