Nicholas Francisco [5/30 - CLOSED TILL BREAKING NEWS]

[worried]

Nicholas has been described as 28, 6 foot and 160 pounds with brown hair and brown eyes. He vanished but his car was found. There are two other missing men in his area who have vanished over the last several years. They are around the same age range and description and their cars were found parked elsewhere as well. There is also another man the same age range and description who vanished from his home. If anyone would like this information send me a pm

[Musterion]

It has been over two weeks since the skull found in Lacey was sent to the forensic expert.

What is the hold up?

Still praying for good news about Nicholas.

IMO.
M.

[Starkist]

Didn't they say it could take months before they knew who the skull belonged to? :confused:

[Musterion]

Didn't they say it could take months before they knew who the skull belonged to? :confused:

I think you're right. I am not a doctor or a forensics expert but I wonder, if they have teeth and match them to the missing persons from the area, what could take so long.

I wish they would at least say who they know it is NOT. If they could. Families must be watching and praying and on edge waiting to hear. What agony.

IMO.
M.

[AJandTam]

I think you're right. I am not a doctor or a forensics expert but I wonder, if they have teeth and match them to the missing persons from the area, what could take so long.

I wish they would at least say who they know it is NOT. If they could. Families must be watching and praying and on edge waiting to hear. What agony.

IMO.
M.

I hear ya Musterion. I don't think they've even told us the race of the man or anything.. Have they? Just approximate age.

[dulcinea]

I think you're right. I am not a doctor or a forensics expert but I wonder, if they have teeth and match them to the missing persons from the area, what could take so long.

I wish they would at least say who they know it is NOT. If they could. Families must be watching and praying and on edge waiting to hear. What agony.

IMO.
M.

Unfortunately not everyone goes to the dentist, and some who go don't go regularly. If this person is not from the area, it will be difficult to match up teeth because they won't even know where to look for dental records. However, I would think they could rule some people out right away, like you mentioned. Sometimes I think they like to remain quiet until the end just to be on the safe side. Did the skull have teeth? All of them? If a substantial number of teeth were missing, that could be part of the problem.

[Musterion]

I hear ya Musterion. I don't think they've even told us the race of the man or anything.. Have they? Just approximate age.

Just the approx. age.

And, nothing yet on the man found under the pier in Seattle, either.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Unfortunately not everyone goes to the dentist, and some who go don't go regularly. If this person is not from the area, it will be difficult to match up teeth because they won't even know where to look for dental records. However, I would think they could rule some people out right away, like you mentioned. Sometimes I think they like to remain quiet until the end just to be on the safe side. Did the skull have teeth? All of them? If a substantial number of teeth were missing, that could be part of the problem.

Very true!

I cannot remember how many teeth they found and you are right, I bet that is the problem. They may just be at a standstill.

Frustrating.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

I think you're right. I am not a doctor or a forensics expert but I wonder, if they have teeth and match them to the missing persons from the area, what could take so long.

I wish they would at least say who they know it is NOT. If they could. Families must be watching and praying and on edge waiting to hear. What agony.

IMO.
M.

Sadly if the bodies are of homeless people no one will bother to report them when they are identified. There was a woman's body found in front of a Safeway. No newspaper other then a smaller neighborhood paper had anything about her once she was identified.

The homeless aren't rated as "real" people when they die.

[AJandTam]

Just the approx. age.

And, nothing yet on the man found under the pier in Seattle, either.

IMO.
M.

I don't know what's w/them in Seattle. Seems that there was another fella a long time ago, that we waited for him to get ID'ed.. and as far as I know. I don't think he ever did. Ofcourse, CRS and all. Can't recall much.. Anyone else remember that..

Seattles that way though, I used to live up there. I know of two murders in the King5 viewing area that were never reported on. I saw one of the bodies, in another case, my husband saw a murder scene on his way to work.. But no reporting on it anywhere that we could ever find.

[Starkist]

The report said the skull had some teeth with dental work still intact and they were going to try and match up dental records. I remember it also said they were going to see if there was any DNA left to extract as well.

[CC I See]

The report said the skull had some teeth with dental work still intact and they were going to try and match up dental records. I remember it also said they were going to see if there was any DNA left to extract as well.

Depending on how many teeth they found, but it should take only a few minutes to check the X-rays for dental work. Teeth are distinctive in size, shape and dental work.

[Musterion]

Sadly if the bodies are of homeless people no one will bother to report them when they are identified. There was a woman's body found in front of a Safeway. No newspaper other then a smaller neighborhood paper had anything about her once she was identified.

The homeless aren't rated as "real" people when they die.

(Bolding mine.)

And that, SilverDove, angers me more than I can say.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I don't know what's w/them in Seattle. Seems that there was another fella a long time ago, that we waited for him to get ID'ed.. and as far as I know. I don't think he ever did. Ofcourse, CRS and all. Can't recall much.. Anyone else remember that..

Seattles that way though, I used to live up there. I know of two murders in the King5 viewing area that were never reported on. I saw one of the bodies, in another case, my husband saw a murder scene on his way to work.. But no reporting on it anywhere that we could ever find.

Ya know, Tam. There is something really odd that goes on here. I don't like to be so vocal about it, because, well, heck, I live here and if I need LE I would want them to come! They may not when they see that it is 'that woman on that crime board whacko who dissed us, let's get some donuts before we go to her house to see what's wrong!' Gulp. :(

But, I'm feeling that they are understaffed and can't put resources into much of anything.

Frustrating for me, for us, but think about the people who have missing loved ones, unsolved murders.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

The report said the skull had some teeth with dental work still intact and they were going to try and match up dental records. I remember it also said they were going to see if there was any DNA left to extract as well.

Exactly! Bingo! That is what they said.

Thanks, Starkist. So, perhaps the extracting is a intricate process which takes time....

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

(Bolding mine.)

And that, SilverDove, angers me more than I can say.

IMO.
M.

On this we agree 100% it is really so sad and unforgivable in this country.

[SeattleEddie]

But, I'm feeling that they are understaffed and can't put resources into much of anything.


IMO.
M.

Are you referring to King County Sheriff's Office, or Seattle Police?

[AJandTam]

Ya know, Tam. There is something really odd that goes on here. I don't like to be so vocal about it, because, well, heck, I live here and if I need LE I would want them to come! They may not when they see that it is 'that woman on that crime board whacko who dissed us, let's get some donuts before we go to her house to see what's wrong!' Gulp. :(

But, I'm feeling that they are understaffed and can't put resources into much of anything.

Frustrating for me, for us, but think about the people who have missing loved ones, unsolved murders.

IMO.
M.

Morning Must.. I agree the LE staff is probably suffering from budget cuts like everyone else in the country. What I was referring to was more of the media there. They have a huge viewing area. We lived 45 minutes to an hour out, and got our local news from Seattle. It did seem that the media in Seattle may have been a bit overwhelmed by trying to report on such a big area or something. We were closer to Tacoma but.. well as you know, they don't pick up any slack. So much goes on there. One of the murders was in Parkland and the other was close to Puyallup, that I was referring too.

LOL. I think they must have stayed pretty busy in our area. I kept seeing them on COPS... I'm like OMG, the hoods on tv again..

[CC I See]

My concern is that x-rays of Nicholas' teeth may not be available to compare the teeth found in the skull of this unidentified body.

Has anyone read where such x-rays were available after he went missing, either from the family or from his dentist? Making these available would be on a voluntary bases that may not be honored.

Dentists usually keep x-rays of their patients but only do so for a limited amount of time.

Also, there may not be enough DNA to do a test with any accuracy.
They might can do a skull restoration enough to get an identity but that takes $$$$

As for homeless individuals not getting the attention of LE. It takes family to put pressure on them for results. If the family doesn't know or if they don't care, there case goes cold very quickly.

[Musterion]

Are you referring to King County Sheriff's Office, or Seattle Police?

Hi Eddie,

You know what, I was thinking of King County because that is where the lead detective for Nicholas' disappearance is located, Jon Holland. When I googled to make sure it was King County I found this:

http://www.hollandpolygraph.com/index.html

And, I'm thinking, could this not be a conflict of interest somehow? LOL! Did Jon Holland retire and this is his new business?

"Why should you and/or your organization choose Holland Polygraph Services?

Holland Polygraph Services was created in 2008. Jon Holland, the owner and lead polygraph examiner, has been employed as a law enforcement officer since 1987. Jon brings practical experience to you and your organization and to the field of polygraph examination. The majority of Jon Holland's career has been spent as an investigator. Jon has spent most of his years in law enforcement conducting complex and sometimes high profile investigations which have led to successful prosecutions and positive resolutions. As an employee of one of the largest county law enforcement agencies in the United States, Jon Holland has more investigative experience than many polygraph examiners in the field.

Many polygraph examiners utilize testing techniques and formats that are not scientifically validated. There are many examiners that make claims and provide opinions that are inaccurate. As a graduate of the Marston Polygraph Academy, Jon Holland was trained in techniques and formats that are utilized by the Department of Defense Polygraph Institute (DODPI). The techniques and formats that Holland Polygraph Services will employ for you and your organization are scientifically validated by years of research and ensure the most accurate results possible."

Anyway, Eddie, I was thinking King County!

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Morning Must.. I agree the LE staff is probably suffering from budget cuts like everyone else in the country. What I was referring to was more of the media there. They have a huge viewing area. We lived 45 minutes to an hour out, and got our local news from Seattle. It did seem that the media in Seattle may have been a bit overwhelmed by trying to report on such a big area or something. We were closer to Tacoma but.. well as you know, they don't pick up any slack. So much goes on there. One of the murders was in Parkland and the other was close to Puyallup, that I was referring too.

LOL. I think they must have stayed pretty busy in our area. I kept seeing them on COPS... I'm like OMG, the hoods on tv again..

Hi Tam!

Overwhelmed is a good word!

I know that, recently, there were funds for a Cold Case Squad in Seattle. I was hoping Nicholas would be considered as a Cold Case and be looked at with new eyes.

IMO.
M.

[Starkist]

A lot of cops have side businesses that deal in security type arenas. I don't think it's a conflict of interest however it does seem like it could be a time consuming task. I would think for him to run something like this, he'd have to retire from full time LE work.

[Musterion]

My concern is that x-rays of Nicholas' teeth may not be available to compare the teeth found in the skull of this unidentified body.

Has anyone read where such x-rays were available after he went missing, either from the family or from his dentist? Making these available would be on a voluntary bases that may not be honored.

Dentists usually keep x-rays of their patients but only do so for a limited amount of time.

Also, there may not be enough DNA to do a test with any accuracy.
They might can do a skull restoration enough to get an identity but that takes $$$$

As for homeless individuals not getting the attention of LE. It takes family to put pressure on them for results. If the family doesn't know or if they don't care, there case goes cold very quickly.

(Bolding Mine)

It just grieves me that any person would not have someone to care about them in this big old world. But, I know it does happen.

As far as giving dental x-rays from Nicholas, when it was talked about here and asked Harlett, she didn't know if Christine had those available or not. I, also, asked (okay pleaded) to have some DNA of Nicholas' given to LE. But, unless Christine had wanted to give it, it seemed no one cared to ask.

IMO.
M.

[Starkist]

(Bolding Mine)

It just grieves me that any person would not have someone to care about them in this big old world. But, I know it does happen.

As far as giving dental x-rays from Nicholas, when it was talked about here and asked Harlett, she didn't know if Christine had those available or not. I, also, asked (okay pleaded) to have some DNA of Nicholas' given to LE. But, unless Christine had wanted to give it, it seemed no one cared to ask.

IMO.
M.

It seems so much of Nicholas's investigation was just glossed over and not taken too seriously. From comments the detectives made (ie: "we don't know if he's dead or alive" and "where in the world would we look?") it seemed like they just didn't bother to care. A lot of times I felt like they were just sitting around with cartoon noise captionings floating above their heads.

[SeattleEddie]

Hi Eddie,

You know what, I was thinking of King County because that is where the lead detective for Nicholas' disappearance is located, Jon Holland. When I googled to make sure it was King County I found this:

http://www.hollandpolygraph.com/index.html

And, I'm thinking, could this not be a conflict of interest somehow? LOL! Did Jon Holland retire and this is his new business?

"Why should you and/or your organization choose Holland Polygraph Services?

Holland Polygraph Services was created in 2008. Jon Holland, the owner and lead polygraph examiner, has been employed as a law enforcement officer since 1987. Jon brings practical experience to you and your organization and to the field of polygraph examination. The majority of Jon Holland's career has been spent as an investigator. Jon has spent most of his years in law enforcement conducting complex and sometimes high profile investigations which have led to successful prosecutions and positive resolutions. As an employee of one of the largest county law enforcement agencies in the United States, Jon Holland has more investigative experience than many polygraph examiners in the field.

Many polygraph examiners utilize testing techniques and formats that are not scientifically validated. There are many examiners that make claims and provide opinions that are inaccurate. As a graduate of the Marston Polygraph Academy, Jon Holland was trained in techniques and formats that are utilized by the Department of Defense Polygraph Institute (DODPI). The techniques and formats that Holland Polygraph Services will employ for you and your organization are scientifically validated by years of research and ensure the most accurate results possible."

Anyway, Eddie, I was thinking King County!

IMO.
M.

thanks, Musterion. I'm sure they are both in a financial squeeze, but it does appear that King Co Sheriff's office is plagued with "issues" of one kind or another. Maybe Holland should test out his new equipment on CFC, just to make sure it's calibrated and all. :smile:

[Musterion]

thanks, Musterion. I'm sure they are both in a financial squeeze, but it does appear that King Co Sheriff's office is plagued with "issues" of one kind or another. Maybe Holland should test out his new equipment on CFC, just to make sure it's calibrated and all. :smile:

I think that is a great idea. Which makes me wonder, yet again, if they did a polygraph on Christine. Okay. Well, I know the answer to that. :(
However, if her name was Christopher and his wife was missing, they would have, more than likely, polygraphed.

JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

It seems so much of Nicholas's investigation was just glossed over and not taken too seriously. From comments the detectives made (ie: "we don't know if he's dead or alive" and "where in the world would we look?") it seemed like they just didn't bother to care. A lot of times I felt like they were just sitting around with cartoon noise captionings floating above their heads.

That's an interesting visual Starkist!

And, I agree, it doesn't seem like this disappearance was taken seriously. It seems that there were so many off the cuff remarks made by LE. First, they ask for the public's help. Then, they ridicule the public, message boards, for being so interested. What does that mean.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

A lot of cops have side businesses that deal in security type arenas. I don't think it's a conflict of interest however it does seem like it could be a time consuming task. I would think for him to run something like this, he'd have to retire from full time LE work.

Good point. Maybe he is looking to retire and has that business lined up for his retirement. I hadn't thought of that.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

thanks, Musterion. I'm sure they are both in a financial squeeze, but it does appear that King Co Sheriff's office is plagued with "issues" of one kind or another. Maybe Holland should test out his new equipment on CFC, just to make sure it's calibrated and all. :smile:

I think if he gave a group rate and get Nicholas' family on it then they might actually get somewhere. :thumbsup:

[SilverDove]

That's an interesting visual Starkist!

And, I agree, it doesn't seem like this disappearance was taken seriously. It seems that there were so many off the cuff remarks made by LE. First, they ask for the public's help. Then, they ridicule the public, message boards, for being so interested. What does that mean.

IMO.
M.

I was thinking that it is interesting that they said a couple times that we (the boards) believed things about Christine that they didn't believe were true but they never said the same thing about Nicholas or his secret. Maybe that was a hint.

I don't think the demands for the group from Texas, that someone search the lake and a few other off the wall suggestion didn't help the credibility of the boards with LE.

[Starkist]

Nor did someone's near obsessive desire to get all gussied up and go to The Wet Spot. :scared:

[SilverDove]

Nor did someone's near obsessive desire to get all gussied up and go to The Wet Spot. :scared:

I think you are mistaken. A couple of people talked about taking a flyer and putting it up there. No one talked about getting "gussied" up to go to the Wet Spot. I think there was something about club clothes.

Do you have any comment about LE not believing Christine had done any of the things people on the board were accusing her of or the fact they never said the same thing about Nicholas? Or are you just out to attack others on the board with half truths?

[RainyNiteNTx]

I was thinking that it is interesting that they said a couple times that we (the boards) believed things about Christine that they didn't believe were true but they never said the same thing about Nicholas or his secret. Maybe that was a hint.

I don't think the demands for the group from Texas, that someone search the lake and a few other off the wall suggestion didn't help the credibility of the boards with LE.

I believe it was Christine who first suggested "that group from Texas". Then she came back and said that group did not go outside Texas. She may have been able to spoon feed that to the ETSY folks and have them believe it, but anybody who follows missing cases knew that was not true.

As for searching the lake, again Christine is the first one who mentioned that Nicholas might be "in or near water". Of course that would have meant that LE would have to really search for Nicholas so that was discounted as well.

JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

That's an interesting visual Starkist!

And, I agree, it doesn't seem like this disappearance was taken seriously. It seems that there were so many off the cuff remarks made by LE. First, they ask for the public's help. Then, they ridicule the public, message boards, for being so interested. What does that mean.

IMO.
M.

Hey M - ITA - I have never believed that NF's disappearance was taken seriously. After following another Seattle missing person case, I was shocked to see a pattern.

[Starkist]

I think you are mistaken. A couple of people talked about taking a flyer and putting it up there. No one talked about getting "gussied" up to go to the Wet Spot. I think there was something about club clothes.

Do you have any comment about LE not believing Christine had done any of the things people on the board were accusing her of or the fact they never said the same thing about Nicholas? Or are you just out to attack others on the board with half truths?

The same questions could be asked of you. I have proof of what others have posted about getting gussied up though...:tonguewag:

[Starkist]

That's an interesting visual Starkist!

And, I agree, it doesn't seem like this disappearance was taken seriously. It seems that there were so many off the cuff remarks made by LE. First, they ask for the public's help. Then, they ridicule the public, message boards, for being so interested. What does that mean.

IMO.
M.

"He's got a hell of a big family" always struck me as an odd thing to say. I have a large extended family too. I would expect that if I was missing, they would all be questioned. Why was that so overwhelming for the detective that he had to make a point of Nick's family to the media?

[SilverDove]

The same questions could be asked of you. I have proof of what others have posted about getting gussied up though...:tonguewag:

That is good at least someone was willing to look for him where he was most likely to be. The clubs and not the lakes. :thumbup:

[Starkist]

That is good at least someone was willing to look for him where he was most likely to be. The clubs and not the lakes. :thumbup:

Yeah, most men who go missing are generally found hiding out in night clubs just a few doors down from where they work. :laugh:

[SeattleEddie]

Nor did someone's near obsessive desire to get all gussied up and go to The Wet Spot. :scared:

:lol: obsessive, yes!

[SilverDove]

:lol: obsessive, yes!

I agree that it is strange that a couple of people seem to keep obsessively posting about it, too. Strange isn't it. :tonguewag:

[SilverDove]

Yeah, most men who go missing are generally found hiding out in night clubs just a few doors down from where they work. :laugh:

One missing woman who's husband was put through the ringer was found working in a McDonald's so stranger things have happened.

[Starkist]

One missing woman who's husband was put through the ringer was found working in a McDonald's so stranger things have happened.

You have the monopoly on that now, don't you? :biggrin:

[SilverDove]

You have the monopoly on that now, don't you? :biggrin:

I'm sorry are you trying to make a point your post really doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Starkist]

I'm sorry are you trying to make a point your post really doesn't make a lot of sense.

:blink: Punctuate much?

[SilverDove]

Anyone follow this case about David Lee Rockey?

http://www.examiner-enterprise.com/articles/2007/12/27/news/news014.txt

Well this is the follow up on it.

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2009/05/08/Missing-man-misses-his-mom/UPI-85121241803561/

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090509_11_A11_BARTLE872131

And here is what the wife is doing about it:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20090512_12_0_BRLSIL389842

So it isn't impossible.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Anyone follow this case about David Lee Rockey?

http://www.examiner-enterprise.com/articles/2007/12/27/news/news014.txt

Well this is the follow up on it.

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2009/05/08/Missing-man-misses-his-mom/UPI-85121241803561/

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090509_11_A11_BARTLE872131

And here is what the wife is doing about it:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20090512_12_0_BRLSIL389842

So it isn't impossible.

If I read this correctly, sounds like the wife waited until her husband was found before filing divorce for cruelty. Sounds like she was on her 7th year before doing this. Did I read it wrong? Did the guy ever say why he chose to do that?

[SilverDove]

If I read this correctly, sounds like the wife waited until her husband was found before filing divorce for cruelty. Sounds like she was on her 7th year before doing this. Did I read it wrong? Did the guy ever say why he chose to do that?

You read it correctly Aug of this year would have been 7 years and she was trying to to decide if she would declare him dead. Sounds like they had a lot of assets.

This article:
http://newsok.com/spouse-faces-tough-choices/article/3368121

Says "David Rockey told Bartlesville police he had been under pressure and decided to leave, Holland said."

This page:
http://www.briansprediction.com/miss/cases/r/rockey_david.html

Says: "He had been married for 26 years by 2002, and is described as a very stable, compassionate man."

Very sad she waited all those years and he was just traveling around.

[Starkist]

Anyone follow this case about David Lee Rockey?

http://www.examiner-enterprise.com/articles/2007/12/27/news/news014.txt

Well this is the follow up on it.

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2009/05/08/Missing-man-misses-his-mom/UPI-85121241803561/

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090509_11_A11_BARTLE872131

And here is what the wife is doing about it:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20090512_12_0_BRLSIL389842

So it isn't impossible.

More than 6 1/2 years later....

[RainyNiteNTx]

You read it correctly Aug of this year would have been 7 years and she was trying to to decide if she would declare him dead. Sounds like they had a lot of assets.

This article:
http://newsok.com/spouse-faces-tough-choices/article/3368121

Says "David Rockey told Bartlesville police he had been under pressure and decided to leave, Holland said."

This page:
http://www.briansprediction.com/miss/cases/r/rockey_david.html

Says: "He had been married for 26 years by 2002, and is described as a very stable, compassionate man."

Very sad she waited all those years and he was just traveling around.

Doesn't sound like he was living the high life traveling around. It sounds more like he had some type of mental breakdown, working at McDonalds and living like a homeless person. What would have upset me the most probably is that he wanted to go visit his mother. That would have hurt knowing he was willing to take a chance to come out of hiding for her, but not the wife and children.

[RainyNiteNTx]

More than 6 1/2 years later....

and this is the part I don't get about Christine. I've read numerous missing persons cases where the wives' main concern is their missing husband's safety - not getting remarried. To each their own I guess.

I've read posts on here where people believe she is the type to have to have a man in her life. That doesn't speak well for her in my opinion - that she has to have a man - any man, in order to function. However, it might explain her moving on so quickly. JMO

[SilverDove]

and this is the part I don't get about Christine. I've read numerous missing persons cases where the wives' main concern is their missing husband's safety - not getting remarried. To each their own I guess.

I've read posts on here where people believe she is the type to have to have a man in her life. That doesn't speak well for her in my opinion - that she has to have a man - any man, in order to function. However, it might explain her moving on so quickly. JMO

I think the key is the ones you read about. There are 100's of people that go missing that don't have major internet lives the way that Christine and Nicholas did. Think if this case hadn't had as much about the two of them on the internet. If Christine hadn't friended anyone on the forums. If she had done a couple of interviews and then had just faded away.

My bet is we wouldn't even be talking about it any more. There wouldn't have been much information. His parents and family are said to be quiet people who aren't saying anything since the first week or so. If Christine hadn't changed her name on a web site and pictures weren't posted on another no one would even have known she was married.

There is no real way of knowing how many people just divorce and go on with their lives the best they can. Never giving interviews or posting on the internet.

I know of a married man who when missing in the 70's that isn't on any list. Coast Guard says he may have walked away from a canoing accident because the canoe was found on a beach but you won't find his name listed anywhere and his family have never heard from him since that time.

The cases you read about are the wants where the wife or family wants the information out there. Many just don't have any information out there for anyone to even notice.

Also women aren't the only ones who have to have someone in their lives men do it, too. Both men and women married to soon after the end of a marriage either through death or divorce. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but it isn't really that strange.

[Musterion]

and this is the part I don't get about Christine. I've read numerous missing persons cases where the wives' main concern is their missing husband's safety - not getting remarried. To each their own I guess.

I've read posts on here where people believe she is the type to have to have a man in her life. That doesn't speak well for her in my opinion - that she has to have a man - any man, in order to function. However, it might explain her moving on so quickly. JMO

Hi Rainy, my friend!

It 'might' explain moving on so quickly. Might.

It, also, 'might' insinuate that she has knowledge of why Nicholas disappeared, maybe had a part in it or knows why. Might. Not saying this is what happened. (Gosh, why, in this case, of all cases, we have on IS, this is the one we have to be so incredibly 'careful' of what we say regarding the suspicious moves of the spouse of a missing person, anyone want to elaborate? If Drew Peterson remarried a little over a year after the disappearance of his wife...all over that with a pit bull.) Sorry.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I think the key is the ones you read about. There are 100's of people that go missing that don't have major internet lives the way that Christine and Nicholas did. Think if this case hadn't had as much about the two of them on the internet. If Christine hadn't friended anyone on the forums. If she had done a couple of interviews and then had just faded away.

My bet is we wouldn't even be talking about it any more. There wouldn't have been much information. His parents and family are said to be quiet people who aren't saying anything since the first week or so. If Christine hadn't changed her name on a web site and pictures weren't posted on another no one would even have known she was married.

There is no real way of knowing how many people just divorce and go on with their lives the best they can. Never giving interviews or posting on the internet.

I know of a married man who when missing in the 70's that isn't on any list. Coast Guard says he may have walked away from a canoing accident because the canoe was found on a beach but you won't find his name listed anywhere and his family have never heard from him since that time.

The cases you read about are the wants where the wife or family wants the information out there. Many just don't have any information out there for anyone to even notice.

Also women aren't the only ones who have to have someone in their lives men do it, too. Both men and women married to soon after the end of a marriage either through death or divorce. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but it isn't really that strange.

Hi SilverDove,

I have to ask. Are some of these things being PM'd to you by Christine to put out here on her behalf or are they all your own words and thoughts, unprompted by her?

Because of my interaction with Christine, it just sounds like her.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Doesn't sound like he was living the high life traveling around. It sounds more like he had some type of mental breakdown, working at McDonalds and living like a homeless person. What would have upset me the most probably is that he wanted to go visit his mother. That would have hurt knowing he was willing to take a chance to come out of hiding for her, but not the wife and children.

Rainy,

The two cases sound nothing alike, IMO.

We don't have the end of Nicholas' story to be able to compare the two.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Hi SilverDove,

I have to ask. Are some of these things being PM'd to you by Christine to put out here on her behalf or are they all your own words and thoughts, unprompted by her?

Because of my interaction with Christine, it just sounds like her.

IMO.
M.

Nope not from Christine those are my own thoughts on the case. I keep thinking this through from what I see. I don't compare it or judge it by what might have happened in other cases. I just keep looking at what is going on in this case. What LE has said. How his family behaves. What has been found. What my own gut feelings are.

I do know a lot of stuff has been posted of what if Christine was a man but she isn't she is a dependent woman. In every case I have ever seen of a dependent woman killing her husband she makes sure there is a body so she can get the insurance and other benefits. So if we want to compare it to other case it should be compared other dependent woman.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hi Rainy, my friend!

It 'might' explain moving on so quickly. Might.

It, also, 'might' insinuate that she has knowledge of why Nicholas disappeared, maybe had a part in it or knows why. Might. Not saying this is what happened. (Gosh, why, in this case, of all cases, we have on IS, this is the one we have to be so incredibly 'careful' of what we say regarding the suspicious moves of the spouse of a missing person, anyone want to elaborate? If Drew Peterson remarried a little over a year after the disappearance of his wife...all over that with a pit bull.) Sorry.

IMO.
M.

I've said this many times throughout the past year M. I think this is the only missing person's case on a crime forum where every word has to be measured. I believe it goes back to what SilverDove said in another post. Its rare that the spouse of a missing person starts blogging, PMing strangers on the board, forming alliances, etc. I believe some of those who got involved with CFC lost their objectivity and put a strong arm out in any discussion pertaining to CFC. I believe some forgot that Nicholas is the one missing - not Christine. I also believe that some do not believe he is worthy of being found and that CFC is justified in absolutely everything she did/does. JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

Rainy,

The two cases sound nothing alike, IMO.

We don't have the end of Nicholas' story to be able to compare the two.

IMO.
M.

Hey M - no we don't. A better comparison might be....

Brian Barton, 29 years old, missing since 3-10-2005 from Bremerton, 6'3" 180 pounds, brown hair brown eyes, last seen at his apartment in Federal Way.

Joseph Pilcher, 22 years old, missing since 1-5-06 from Bremerton, 6'2'', 170 lbs, brown hair, hazel eys, car found a few miles away in a restaurant parking lot.

Austin Renshaw, 28, missing since 10-27-03 from Seattle, 6'1'', 160 lbs, brown hair, hazel eyes, car found in parking lot of a middle school.

(thanks to the poster "worried" who provided me with this information)

[Starkist]

Hey M - no we don't. A better comparison might be....

Brian Barton, 29 years old, missing since 3-10-2005 from Bremerton, 6'3" 180 pounds, brown hair brown eyes, last seen at his apartment in Federal Way.

Joseph Pilcher, 22 years old, missing since 1-5-06 from Bremerton, 6'2'', 170 lbs, brown hair, hazel eys, car found a few miles away in a restaurant parking lot.

Austin Renshaw, 28, missing since 10-27-03 from Seattle, 6'1'', 160 lbs, brown hair, hazel eyes, car found in parking lot of a middle school.

(thanks to the poster "worried" who provided me with this information)

I am wondering if anyone is looking for them as well? I also wonder, other than physical features, if all these men have/had something in common?

[Starkist]

Hi Rainy, my friend!

It 'might' explain moving on so quickly. Might.

It, also, 'might' insinuate that she has knowledge of why Nicholas disappeared, maybe had a part in it or knows why. Might. Not saying this is what happened. (Gosh, why, in this case, of all cases, we have on IS, this is the one we have to be so incredibly 'careful' of what we say regarding the suspicious moves of the spouse of a missing person, anyone want to elaborate? If Drew Peterson remarried a little over a year after the disappearance of his wife...all over that with a pit bull.) Sorry.

IMO.
M.

Typically those who move on so quickly, such as after a divorce or spouse/partner's death, have been found to have done so with someone they knew before either of these events took place. It has also been found that the person they have moved on with was someone who had been "lying in wait", so to speak, to take advantage of the situation. However, I don't know what there would be to take of advantage of in this case as C has publicly stated numerous times, she is broke and has no assets to her name. 7 years would be a long time for a user to wait for Nick to be declared dead if there is indeed a hefty sum of a life insurance policy out there. But who really knows?

[elf999]

Found this interesting statistic on the web from a free "Marriage and Family Encyclopedia."

"In the United States, approximately 75 percent of divorced people legally remarry, and they usually do so less than four years after divorce. Nearly one-third, however, remarry within a year after their divorce is legal...."

http://family.jrank.org/pages/1386/Remarriage.html

This is the first time I have included a link in a post, I hope I have done it correctly.

I cannot vouch for the source of the information at that link, however it appears legitimate. If anyone has the time to do research, exact detailed statistics on remarriage would be interesting.

Many Blessings

[Starkist]

And where does this show the percentage of those who divorced less than 6 months after their spouses went missing for unknown reasons and remarried just over 1 year after he/she went missing?

[elf999]

And where does this show the percentage of those who divorced less than 6 months after their spouses went missing for unknown reasons and remarried just over 1 year after he/she went missing?

Certainly there are no meaningful statistics like the ones you mention. Cheating spouses are a very common reason for divorce however. Rather than statistics, you might find something in psychology about that. I am not familiar with any psychological literature that says that the betrayal of adultery would affect one any differently simply because a spouse is missing, or in any such unusual circumstance.

This has already been rehashed here though many times. How about a new route of inquiry? I would like to know exactly what happened that day that Nicholas went missing.

I remember something about his cell phone supposedly either not working, or being uncharged. I have always thought that he had turned it off deliberately.

Many Blessings

[SilverDove]

Hey M - no we don't. A better comparison might be....

Brian Barton, 29 years old, missing since 3-10-2005 from Bremerton, 6'3" 180 pounds, brown hair brown eyes, last seen at his apartment in Federal Way.

Joseph Pilcher, 22 years old, missing since 1-5-06 from Bremerton, 6'2'', 170 lbs, brown hair, hazel eys, car found a few miles away in a restaurant parking lot.

Austin Renshaw, 28, missing since 10-27-03 from Seattle, 6'1'', 160 lbs, brown hair, hazel eyes, car found in parking lot of a middle school.

(thanks to the poster "worried" who provided me with this information)

Info about Brian Barton:
25 at the time he went missing

Missing from his house, sliding screen door found off its track.

Went messing 2005

White/Pacific Islander

Whole family have become very active in trying to find missing persons.
------------------------------
Info about Austin Renshaw:

22 at the time he went missing

Went missing 2003

Lived in Maple Valley
Car found in SeaTac at Chinook Middle School with partially eaten Mc Donald's break fast and receipt showing it was purchased at 7:30 am Oct 27. Damage to the car's hood.

Told sister someone was going to try to kill him a few days before he went missing.

Austin was trying to make a fresh start after a battle with substance abuse. He regularly attended church, and was believed to have been attending several.

-----------------------------------
Info about Joseph Pichler:

18 when he went missing

went missing from Bremerton, WA

Race: white

hair light brown
eyes hazel

He had spent the evening playing cards with some close friends and drinking beer. Later on Joe called one of those friends crying and upset and said he couldn't stop drinking and didn't know why. He asked the friend to stay up for the next hour because he was going to call him back.

Police found a note which they felt was a suicide note inside the locked vehicle in which Joe said he wish he had been a better brother and left items to his family members.

Police also believe Joe possibly jumped from a nearby bridge. No signs of foul play were located inside the vehicle. The car was locked, undisturbed, with clean laundry in the passenger seat where the note was found. Joe's cell phone, driver's license, and a small amount of money and medication was also found inside the vehicle.

[Starkist]

Certainly there are no meaningful statistics like the ones you mention. Cheating spouses are a very common reason for divorce however. Rather than statistics, you might find something in psychology about that. I am not familiar with any psychological literature that says that the betrayal of adultery would affect one any differently simply because a spouse is missing, or in any such unusual circumstance.

This has already been rehashed here though many times. How about a new route of inquiry? I would like to know exactly what happened that day that Nicholas went missing.

I remember something about his cell phone supposedly either not working, or being uncharged. I have always thought that he had turned it off deliberately.

Many Blessings
And still we have no proof of either "theory" other than our own speculations and the word of the less than wholey truthful Mrs. C. There has been nothing to prove Nick went missing due to an adulterous affair nor has there been anything to prove he didn't. Still being there are no statistics answering my query, it would be reasonable for one to fathom that no, it is not within the norm for a person to divorce and remarry so quickly after his/her spouse went missing for such unknown reasons.

[Starkist]

I think we'd all like to know what exactly happened the day Nick went missing. Even his coworkers can't all come up with a similar recantation.

It's not unusual for someone to tell others their cell phone is dead when they simply do not want to answer their phone. I did just that the other day while sitting at chemo and didn't want to talk to anyone else. I even cut my call short telling the person my phone was about to die. I had just charged it the night before. I also do not answer cell calls that appear on my caller ID as "witheld" or "unknown" numbers. If someone was repeatedly calling me that way, it would be more than likely they'd assume either my phone is not working, I have it turned off or my cell battery is dead. We don't know for honest fact if Nick had his turned off or the battery was dead. Again we only have C's word on that.

[Musterion]

Certainly there are no meaningful statistics like the ones you mention. Cheating spouses are a very common reason for divorce however. Rather than statistics, you might find something in psychology about that. I am not familiar with any psychological literature that says that the betrayal of adultery would affect one any differently simply because a spouse is missing, or in any such unusual circumstance.

This has already been rehashed here though many times. How about a new route of inquiry? I would like to know exactly what happened that day that Nicholas went missing.

I remember something about his cell phone supposedly either not working, or being uncharged. I have always thought that he had turned it off deliberately.

Many Blessings

Hi elf,

You don't have to answer, but it might help some of us. How long have you known Christine?

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Certainly there are no meaningful statistics like the ones you mention. Cheating spouses are a very common reason for divorce however. Rather than statistics, you might find something in psychology about that. I am not familiar with any psychological literature that says that the betrayal of adultery would affect one any differently simply because a spouse is missing, or in any such unusual circumstance.

This has already been rehashed here though many times. How about a new route of inquiry? I would like to know exactly what happened that day that Nicholas went missing.

I remember something about his cell phone supposedly either not working, or being uncharged. I have always thought that he had turned it off deliberately.

Many Blessings

http://www.divorcerate.org/

"The divorce rate in America for first marriage, vs second or third marriage 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce, according to Jennifer Baker of the Forest Institute of Professional Psychology in Springfield, Missouri.”

"According to enrichment journal on the divorce rate in America:
The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41%
The divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60%
The divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73%"

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I am wondering if anyone is looking for them as well? I also wonder, other than physical features, if all these men have/had something in common?

I wonder what similarities, as well.

Coincidences that they have similar physical features?

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I've said this many times throughout the past year M. I think this is the only missing person's case on a crime forum where every word has to be measured. I believe it goes back to what SilverDove said in another post. Its rare that the spouse of a missing person starts blogging, PMing strangers on the board, forming alliances, etc. I believe some of those who got involved with CFC lost their objectivity and put a strong arm out in any discussion pertaining to CFC. I believe some forgot that Nicholas is the one missing - not Christine. I also believe that some do not believe he is worthy of being found and that CFC is justified in absolutely everything she did/does. JMO

Hi Rainy,

You have said it continually. And you are right.

I am not trying to be rude. To SilverDove or to elf999, in a post I made a few minutes ago, asking how long they had known Christine.

But, I'm tired of the cat and mouse game. And, it is a game. Christine is on IS every single day. She is camped on the Nicholas forum every single day at some point.

Why?

If elf is Christine or is new husband Brent, why?

This is not a game. This is a man who is missing under suspicious circumstances. He is probably dead.

You don't have to log in to read these forums. You do have to log in to PM. I just feel that if everyone who knows Christine just comes out and says, 'yes, I know her by messaging with her, or met her, or I'm married to her,' then, we can get somewhere. We can put pieces together and make some sense and contacts with people to help Nicholas be found.

Christine, if you want Nicholas to be found for the sake of receiving child support, then just say it. We are all here trying hard, in our own ways, to find him. And whatever information you have, if you come out with it, may help some of us here to find him. For his children and those who care about him. Even if you don't.

I cannot understand, though, why a newly married woman with three small children would still be PM'ing people with information she wants out in cyber world.

All it does is make Christine look more suspicious. It makes me think she has way more knowledge of what happened to Nicholas and she is afraid and keeps trying to manipulate information and continues to monitor this board.

Why does she care? She says that we have treated her terribly. Why has she not gone on with her life? What draws her back and keeps her obsessively trying to keep up?

I'm just tired of it. I'm not going to coddle or play cat and mouse with anyone.

IMO.
M.

[elf999]

Hi elf,

You don't have to answer, but it might help some of us. How long have you known Christine?

IMO.
M.

I have already posted on this board that I have never met nor spoken with Christine or anyone involved in this missing person case. I live in the northeast and have never even been to the west coast.

My interest lies in helping to find the answers to Nicholas's disappearance. I really don't think that Christine is involved. Since she has never even been considered a person of interest by the authorities, I don't think it's unusual that I would believe that.

Many Blessings

[Musterion]

I have already posted on this board that I have never met nor spoken with Christine or anyone involved in this missing person case. I live in the northeast and have never even been to the west coast.

My interest lies in helping to find the answers to Nicholas's disappearance. I really don't think that Christine is involved. Since she has never even been considered a person of interest by the authorities, I don't think it's unusual that I would believe that.

Many Blessings

You, of course, elf, have a right to your thoughts and opinions and they should be respected just like everyone else wants theirs to be.

I don't think it would be unusual for someone to think Christine wasn't involved in Nicholas' disappearance.

In the beginning of this case, I spent a lot of time posting things in context of how I believe they happened. I felt that people would get caught up in something that was out of context and would run with it. I felt and still feel that that is unfair to do to anyone.

Since watching events unfold in this case, I have changed my view of Christine and what she may know.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Info about Brian Barton:
25 at the time he went missing

Missing from his house, sliding screen door found off its track.

Went messing 2005

White/Pacific Islander

Whole family have become very active in trying to find missing persons.
------------------------------
Info about Austin Renshaw:

22 at the time he went missing

Went missing 2003

Lived in Maple Valley
Car found in SeaTac at Chinook Middle School with partially eaten Mc Donald's break fast and receipt showing it was purchased at 7:30 am Oct 27. Damage to the car's hood.

Told sister someone was going to try to kill him a few days before he went missing.

Austin was trying to make a fresh start after a battle with substance abuse. He regularly attended church, and was believed to have been attending several.

-----------------------------------
Info about Joseph Pichler:

18 when he went missing

went missing from Bremerton, WA

Race: white

hair light brown
eyes hazel

He had spent the evening playing cards with some close friends and drinking beer. Later on Joe called one of those friends crying and upset and said he couldn't stop drinking and didn't know why. He asked the friend to stay up for the next hour because he was going to call him back.

Police found a note which they felt was a suicide note inside the locked vehicle in which Joe said he wish he had been a better brother and left items to his family members.

Police also believe Joe possibly jumped from a nearby bridge. No signs of foul play were located inside the vehicle. The car was locked, undisturbed, with clean laundry in the passenger seat where the note was found. Joe's cell phone, driver's license, and a small amount of money and medication was also found inside the vehicle.

Also:

http://someoneismissing.com/washington/duna-iuly-florin.htm

"DUNA IULIAN FLORIN a romanian artist visiting USA was last seen around 8:00pm, on 3 May 2006 at the house were he was renting a room , in AUBURN, Seattle, WA. He was living with his girlfriend Ana and a romanian family.

He left with a bike, a black back pack MAC, an Ipod and some cahs (less than $50). All of his other belongings were left behind."

IMO.
M.

[elf999]

Hi Rainy,

You have said it continually. And you are right.

I am not trying to be rude. To SilverDove or to elf999, in a post I made a few minutes ago, asking how long they had known Christine.

But, I'm tired of the cat and mouse game. And, it is a game. Christine is on IS every single day. She is camped on the Nicholas forum every single day at some point.

Why?

If elf is Christine or is new husband Brent, why?

This is not a game. This is a man who is missing under suspicious circumstances. He is probably dead.

You don't have to log in to read these forums. You do have to log in to PM. I just feel that if everyone who knows Christine just comes out and says, 'yes, I know her by messaging with her, or met her, or I'm married to her,' then, we can get somewhere. We can put pieces together and make some sense and contacts with people to help Nicholas be found.

Christine, if you want Nicholas to be found for the sake of receiving child support, then just say it. We are all here trying hard, in our own ways, to find him. And whatever information you have, if you come out with it, may help some of us here to find him. For his children and those who care about him. Even if you don't.

I cannot understand, though, why a newly married woman with three small children would still be PM'ing people with information she wants out in cyber world.

All it does is make Christine look more suspicious. It makes me think she has way more knowledge of what happened to Nicholas and she is afraid and keeps trying to manipulate information and continues to monitor this board.

Why does she care? She says that we have treated her terribly. Why has she not gone on with her life? What draws her back and keeps her obsessively trying to keep up?

I'm just tired of it. I'm not going to coddle or play cat and mouse with anyone.

IMO.
M.

I'm just curious, how do you know Christine is on the boards every day? I haven't been following these boards that much lately. Have people reported that she has PM'd them every day? There doesn't seem to have been too much posted about Nicholas lately here, so she can't be here every day, or are there other boards?

To me it has always appeared that she cared about what people on the boards have thought of her. Some people will be bothered more by what is being said about them, than others.

Why should she post here, when people say such terrible things about her? If it was me, I could not do it. I would lurk, and PM. Yup. I would.


Many Blessings

[Musterion]

I'm just curious, how do you know Christine is on the boards every day? I haven't been following these boards that much lately. Have people reported that she has PM'd them every day? There doesn't seem to have been too much posted about Nicholas lately here, so she can't be here every day, or are there other boards?

To me it has always appeared that she cared about what people on the boards have thought of her. Some people will be bothered more by what is being said about them, than others.

Why should she post here, when people say such terrible things about her? If it was me, I could not do it. I would lurk, and PM. Yup. I would.


Many Blessings

Hi elf,

Christine has never seemed to me the shy-and-easily-put-off-from confrontation-standing-up-for-herself-kinda-girl.

I don't believe that she is bothered by what people say, as much as she has a need to manipulate situations. This situation being extremely important to her to manipulate.

Elf, Christine has, I'm sure you know, several avenues to stand up for herself. Etsy, supportingchristine.com, and her own personal blog. Each of those are sites where people will not allow anyone to speak derogatorily about Christine. They support her and believe everything that she says. Now, would be a really great opportunity for her to utilize those avenues to defend her life's actions since Nicholas went missing.

But, it seems since she remarried so quickly those sites don't even know. So, maybe I'm wrong, maybe they would not be so quick to defend her because of that.

In any event, anyone can click on a nic and there is information about that person, if they are on, what they are doing. When was the last visit. I suspected she was on here most every day. So I continued to check.

I realize now that she probably will discard that nic, make a new one and continue to lurk and manipulate by PM.

But, that is just my own, IMO.
M.

[elf999]

Hi elf,

Christine has never seemed to me the shy-and-easily-put-off-from confrontation-standing-up-for-herself-kinda-girl.

I don't believe that she is bothered by what people say, as much as she has a need to manipulate situations. This situation being extremely important to her to manipulate.

Elf, Christine has, I'm sure you know, several avenues to stand up for herself. Etsy, supportingchristine.com, and her own personal blog. Each of those are sites where people will not allow anyone to speak derogatorily about Christine. They support her and believe everything that she says. Now, would be a really great opportunity for her to utilize those avenues to defend her life's actions since Nicholas went missing.

But, it seems since she remarried so quickly those sites don't even know. So, maybe I'm wrong, maybe they would not be so quick to defend her because of that.

In any event, anyone can click on a nic and there is information about that person, if they are on, what they are doing. When was the last visit. I suspected she was on here most every day. So I continued to check.

I realize now that she probably will discard that nic, make a new one and continue to lurk and manipulate by PM.

But, that is just my own, IMO.
M.

Thank you for your reply.

Just a couple of comments about your post...

Okay I don't know how you know Christine's ID, or are assured that it is hers, but let's assume that it is her ID, and she is logged in often, or most of the time..... It could be her web browser. I use tabs in the Opera browser and it looks like I'm logged into many sites all day long, when actually often I am only on them a few minutes a day.

I also don't think that Christine is a big-time manipulator. For one thing truly good manipulators would never have said and done some of the things she has that have aroused people's ire. True manipulators know how to play people alot better than that.

I find it sad, anyway, that Christine should have to defend what she has done with her life.

Many Blessings

[Starkist]

C doesn't need to defend what she has done, she simply feels the desire to.

[Musterion]

Thank you for your reply.

Just a couple of comments about your post...

Okay I don't know how you know Christine's ID, or are assured that it is hers, but let's assume that it is her ID, and she is logged in often, or most of the time..... It could be her web browser. I use tabs in the Opera browser and it looks like I'm logged into many sites all day long, when actually often I am only on them a few minutes a day.

I also don't think that Christine is a big-time manipulator. For one thing truly good manipulators would never have said and done some of the things she has that have aroused people's ire. True manipulators know how to play people alot better than that.

I find it sad, anyway, that Christine should have to defend what she has done with her life.

Many Blessings

That is true. About the browser. However, my point is that she is still logging on. For what?

I know Christine's nic because she used to PM me from it.

Please explain what you mean by big time manipulator. I don't understand.

What I find sad, elf, is that Nicholas was said to be coming home to a family that he told almost everyone that he loved and adored, to bake cookies with his little girl. He had pictures of his little one's drawings in his office. He, from the accounts of most everyone who knew him, had a deep love for Christine. Was proud of her. He worked hard, two jobs, to provide for his family. Built a sewing room for Christine's business. Brought her coffee in bed, even though he didn't drink coffee. I think it is sad, that he is missing, and that Christine did not look for him, did not do what love says a person does in her own religion:

'Love is patient, Love is kind,
It does not envy, it does not boast,
It is not proud, It is not rude,
It is not self-seeking,
It is not easily angered,
It keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil,
but rejoices with the truth.
Love always protects, always trusts,
always hopes, always perseveres.
Love bears all things, believes all things,
hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never ends.
L o v e N e v e r F a i l s.
Corinthians 13 : 4 - 8'

Christine is known for her bible verses on various sites. But, she does not come close to the definition of what it is to love someone, from her own religious teachings.

Elf, make no mistake, my friend, this is not about poor Christine. This is about poor Nicholas. Where is Nicholas? Where is the father of three beautiful children? What happened to him. That is what this forum is for. It is for Nicholas.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Good to see you all, and M. I so agree, this thread is about Nicholas's life, and what happened to that life.
Although many may want to help CF sweep this man right under the rug, dead or alive, it's not right and they will not be able to attain this feat.

Nicholas is gone. He is missing, and someone parked that car and moved it several times in that lot.
Now, who had the keys to do that, and who really believes that NF walked away from his life as a dad, married man, artist and loving spouse, without so much as a word, a decree, a letter, a pair of shoes or favorite jacket let alone his things he liked to make in his garage.

No, CF sold all those things at the supposed garage sale that day.
Shame Shame Shame. The things we do for love....
I'd like to know the new BF's alibi of that day, and his exact movements.
I'm sure LE already knows them.
:no:

Oh Bug!! I'm so happy to see you! You are one of my favourite posters.

I pray that those things were not sold. His children will hold dear to so much of his belongings if they were set aside for them.

When you say BF, you do know that Christine has a new husband, right? Brent Carter? A pentecostal minister?

http://www.freewebs.com/joypentecostalcrossing/calendarofevents.htm

I think that maybe Brent took this to heart on this page:

"We belive in being socially relevent here in kitsap county by displaying the love of God by administering Love and mercy to the Poor,Widow's,and the Fatherless."

http://www.freewebs.com/joypentecostalcrossing/index.htm

All I can say is that I'm praying for Pastor Brent. And, Nicholas' children.

IMO.
M.

[elf999]

That is true. About the browser. However, my point is that she is still logging on. For what?

I know Christine's nic because she used to PM me from it.

Please explain what you mean by big time manipulator. I don't understand.

What I find sad, elf, is that Nicholas was said to be coming home to a family that he told almost everyone that he loved and adored, to bake cookies with his little girl. He had pictures of his little one's drawings in his office. He, from the accounts of most everyone who knew him, had a deep love for Christine. Was proud of her. He worked hard, two jobs, to provide for his family. Built a sewing room for Christine's business. Brought her coffee in bed, even though he didn't drink coffee. I think it is sad, that he is missing, and that Christine did not look for him, did not do what love says a person does in her own religion:

'Love is patient, Love is kind,
It does not envy, it does not boast,
It is not proud, It is not rude,
It is not self-seeking,
It is not easily angered,
It keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil,
but rejoices with the truth.
Love always protects, always trusts,
always hopes, always perseveres.
Love bears all things, believes all things,
hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never ends.
L o v e N e v e r F a i l s.
Corinthians 13 : 4 - 8'

Christine is known for her bible verses on various sites. But, she does not come close to the definition of what it is to love someone, from her own religious teachings.

Elf, make no mistake, my friend, this is not about poor Christine. This is about poor Nicholas. Where is Nicholas? Where is the father of three beautiful children? What happened to him. That is what this forum is for. It is for Nicholas.

IMO.
M.

Hi Musterion,

What I meant by big-time manipulator is someone who manipulates a lot, and really knows how to do it well. Have you known the type? I used to have a boss who manipulated people at work, he put on a big act pretending to be really nice and charming, but it was just an act. He really wasn't such a nice guy, he just loved making people think he was. You know, the charming salesman type?

I love your Bible quote on love. I actually have that hanging on the wall in my house. But i do believe that quote is an ideal that as religious people we'd all like to live up to, but who does? It's a work in progress, for me.

I don't know if either Christine or Nicholas really loved the other. IMO I really don't think so.

Many Blessings

[Musterion]

Hi Musterion,

What I meant by big-time manipulator is someone who manipulates a lot, and really knows how to do it well. Have you known the type? I used to have a boss who manipulated people at work, he put on a big act pretending to be really nice and charming, but it was just an act. He really wasn't such a nice guy, he just loved making people think he was. You know, the charming salesman type?

I love your Bible quote on love. I actually have that hanging on the wall in my house. But i do believe that quote is an ideal that as religious people we'd all like to live up to, but who does? It's a work in progress, for me.

I don't know if either Christine or Nicholas really loved the other. IMO I really don't think so.

Many Blessings

I have known people like what you are describing! LOL! I even have one in my family! :sad: Do I think Christine might be like that? Yes, to a degree.

Corinthians is an ideal in love. You are right. But, as 'religious' as Christine portrayed and slapped scripture up on her site, I believe, she is a little more accountable for her actions, for her testimony. I can't give her a pass on this one, Elf. She touts herself as a 'real' christian. 'Real' christians are way more humble and kind than this woman is. IMO. She lacks empathy, she lacks compassion, she lacks any semblance of forgiveness. These are three traits that our Saviour was ALL about. Anything else, matters less.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Also:

http://someoneismissing.com/washington/duna-iuly-florin.htm

"DUNA IULIAN FLORIN a romanian artist visiting USA was last seen around 8:00pm, on 3 May 2006 at the house were he was renting a room , in AUBURN, Seattle, WA. He was living with his girlfriend Ana and a romanian family.

He left with a bike, a black back pack MAC, an Ipod and some cahs (less than $50). All of his other belongings were left behind."

IMO.
M.

I can't really see that any of these have much in common other then some what of a similar description and the fact they are missing. One maybe suicide and another may have been killed by someone he knew. I'm not sure that I see anything other then description that ties these together.

[SilverDove]

I have known people like what you are describing! LOL! I even have one in my family! :sad: Do I think Christine might be like that? Yes, to a degree.

Corinthians is an ideal in love. You are right. But, as 'religious' as Christine portrayed and slapped scripture up on her site, I believe, she is a little more accountable for her actions, for her testimony. I can't give her a pass on this one, Elf. She touts herself as a 'real' christian. 'Real' christians are way more humble and kind than this woman is. IMO. She lacks empathy, she lacks compassion, she lacks any semblance of forgiveness. These are three traits that our Saviour was ALL about. Anything else, matters less.

IMO.
M.

We have all sinned not one of us has the right to claim anything other then through Christ's blood. Anytime we start judging how Christian someone is and pointing fingers we should stop and realize that none of us haven't sinned.

Communicating with someone to try and get all the info can also show lack of compassion and empathy. Not forgiving them when they don't give us all the answers we want is just as unforgiving. Sometimes when we point out others problems we have three fingers pointing back at us.

I really believe religion should be left out of this unless it has something to do with finding Nicholas. We all have our feelings about religion and personally I have found Christians to be some of the most judgmental and unforgiving people around mostly lack in empathy. I have also meet many fewer that I think walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

[Starkist]

We have all sinned not one of us has the right to claim anything other then through Christ's blood. Anytime we start judging how Christian someone is and pointing fingers we should stop and realize that none of us haven't sinned.

Communicating with someone to try and get all the info can also show lack of compassion and empathy. Not forgiving them when they don't give us all the answers we want is just as unforgiving. Sometimes when we point out others problems we have three fingers pointing back at us.

I really believe religion should be left out of this unless it has something to do with finding Nicholas. We all have our feelings about religion and personally I have found Christians to be some of the most judgmental and unforgiving people around mostly lack in empathy. I have also meet many fewer that I think walk the walk and not just talk the talk.
Odd...this truly describes the person who PMed me over the weekend...you must know her well...

[SilverDove]

Just because I don't believe that Christine had anything to do with his disappearance and I don't think she knows where he is, doesn't mean I don't want him found. I still search for anything that might be a trace and I still wonder why his account on yay hooray is being signed into as recently as April 27, 2009. I wonder why the owner of B3 won't just return an email saying no he isn't posting on the board if he isn't. I wonder why his parents aren't still moving heaven and earth to find him. I wonder if he is still has his "second" job on the internet using a friends SS number if he needs one. I wonder why so many people I talk to about him think he is alive and in hiding (including police) but people on the board are still trying to find a way that Christine killed him no matter how far out the idea is.

I wonder why people compare Christine to Drew when the cases are nothing alike but can see anything in common with David Lee Rockey. Maybe it is because I don't follow a set of "rules" of what is or isn't the way missing persons cases go. This is the first time I have followed a case on a board although not the first time I've followed one or known what happened even before it was announced so I follow my own instincts and put the information together the way it makes the most sense to me.

I'm still looking for answers but I still don't see the same things some people seem to see here.

[RainyNiteNTx]

C doesn't need to defend what she has done, she simply feels the desire to.

Exactly! No one asked her to blog about the posters here - she interjected herself into this forum, first from afar, then as a poster pretending to be someone else. I'm with Musterion on this - the game playing is alarming. JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

Thank you for your reply.

Just a couple of comments about your post...

Okay I don't know how you know Christine's ID, or are assured that it is hers, but let's assume that it is her ID, and she is logged in often, or most of the time..... It could be her web browser. I use tabs in the Opera browser and it looks like I'm logged into many sites all day long, when actually often I am only on them a few minutes a day.

I also don't think that Christine is a big-time manipulator. For one thing truly good manipulators would never have said and done some of the things she has that have aroused people's ire. True manipulators know how to play people alot better than that.

I find it sad, anyway, that Christine should have to defend what she has done with her life.

Many Blessings

If Nicholas is found alive, would you also find it sad should he feel the need to defend what he has done with his life?

[n/t]

Just because I don't believe that Christine had anything to do with his disappearance and I don't think she knows where he is, doesn't mean I don't want him found. I still search for anything that might be a trace and I still wonder why his account on yay hooray is being signed into as recently as April 27, 2009. I wonder why the owner of B3 won't just return an email saying no he isn't posting on the board if he isn't. I wonder why his parents aren't still moving heaven and earth to find him. I wonder if he is still has his "second" job on the internet using a friends SS number if he needs one. I wonder why so many people I talk to about him think he is alive and in hiding (including police) but people on the board are still trying to find a way that Christine killed him no matter how far out the idea is.

I wonder why people compare Christine to Drew when the cases are nothing alike but can see anything in common with David Lee Rockey. Maybe it is because I don't follow a set of "rules" of what is or isn't the way missing persons cases go. This is the first time I have followed a case on a board although not the first time I've followed one or known what happened even before it was announced so I follow my own instincts and put the information together the way it makes the most sense to me.

I'm still looking for answers but I still don't see the same things some people seem to see here.

<bolding mine>


The police told you he's alive and hiding?

[elf999]

Just because I don't believe that Christine had anything to do with his disappearance and I don't think she knows where he is, doesn't mean I don't want him found. I still search for anything that might be a trace and I still wonder why his account on yay hooray is being signed into as recently as April 27, 2009. I wonder why the owner of B3 won't just return an email saying no he isn't posting on the board if he isn't. I wonder why his parents aren't still moving heaven and earth to find him. I wonder if he is still has his "second" job on the internet using a friends SS number if he needs one. I wonder why so many people I talk to about him think he is alive and in hiding (including police) but people on the board are still trying to find a way that Christine killed him no matter how far out the idea is.

I wonder why people compare Christine to Drew when the cases are nothing alike but can see anything in common with David Lee Rockey. Maybe it is because I don't follow a set of "rules" of what is or isn't the way missing persons cases go. This is the first time I have followed a case on a board although not the first time I've followed one or known what happened even before it was announced so I follow my own instincts and put the information together the way it makes the most sense to me.

I'm still looking for answers but I still don't see the same things some people seem to see here.

I agree with what you have said, indeed your post voices many of my thoughts exactly.

I find it interesting about his Yah Hooray account being so recently logged into, and the owner of B3 not returning your email.

I think it most likely that he went to meet a male friend the night he went missing. He didn't have much time, a female would probably need more time with him. Also if there was foul play, a male might have an easier time disposing of the body (sorry for being so graphic).

It's also entirely possible that something caused him to decide to not go home again. Too many drugs and passing out, not waking up till the morning and fear of confrontation with the wife, might be a reason. He may have been fantasizing leaving for a long time and just left on impulse. There are many possibilities.

Please keep us updated on the information you find Silver Dove, I really appreciate anything you can come up with.

Many Blessings

[elf999]

If Nicholas is found alive, would you also find it sad should he feel the need to defend what he has done with his life?

If he did leave Christine and the kids high and dry with no income and no warning, I don't feel there is a defense for that. If he really felt the need to leave suddenly, he could have written her a letter soon afterwards and started sending money, for the kids at least.

Of course I would feel bad, and yes sad, for him though. I would hope he gets counseling and finds happiness.

Many Blessings

[SilverDove]

<bolding mine>


The police told you he's alive and hiding?

I didn't say they told me he was alive and hiding, I said they think he is. They were also just making off the cuff comments not official statements. You think he is dead and I think he is alive. Until there is a body or he shows up no one knows

[SilverDove]

If Nicholas is found alive, would you also find it sad should he feel the need to defend what he has done with his life?

I think the only thing he would have to defend is walking out all the rest is just life choices and if he is happy with them there is nothing to defend. Other then not being open with his wife and leaving aren't wrong and none of it is illegal.

[n/t]

I didn't say they told me he was alive and hiding, I said they think he is. They were also just making off the cuff comments not official statements. You think he is dead and I think he is alive. Until there is a body or he shows up no one knows


How in the world do you know what they think? Are you in their head? Are you part of LE? Have insider info? What?

As far as what's been told to the public, they don't know what happened to Nicholas and he's still listed as missing!

[n/t]

I didn't say they told me he was alive and hiding, I said they think he is. They were also just making off the cuff comments not official statements. You think he is dead and I think he is alive. Until there is a body or he shows up no one knows

Oh and add to that.........HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT I THINK?:angry:

[worried]

Hi Silverdove,
How do you know that his parents are not actively searching? I find this odd, but then again, so many families, Nancy Moyers' etc do not seem to actively search. Also, does anyone know what his other life was all about? I have read that he had a life that his wife was not aware of, but I have never seen any details as to what that might be. I always keep an open mind. Have seen sooooooooooooo many weird things with these cases. If you could enlighten me on the church he was attending, I would appreciate that too. You can post it here or send me a PM. Thanks so much!

[SilverDove]

How in the world do you know what they think? Are you in their head? Are you part of LE? Have insider info? What?

As far as what's been told to the public, they don't know what happened to Nicholas and he's still listed as missing!

Of course I only know the words that come out of their mouths or the words they write. I have no way of knowing if they think anything or just open their mouths or let their fingers type things without ever engaging a thought to them.

[Musterion]

We have all sinned not one of us has the right to claim anything other then through Christ's blood. Anytime we start judging how Christian someone is and pointing fingers we should stop and realize that none of us haven't sinned.

Communicating with someone to try and get all the info can also show lack of compassion and empathy. Not forgiving them when they don't give us all the answers we want is just as unforgiving. Sometimes when we point out others problems we have three fingers pointing back at us.

I really believe religion should be left out of this unless it has something to do with finding Nicholas. We all have our feelings about religion and personally I have found Christians to be some of the most judgmental and unforgiving people around mostly lack in empathy. I have also meet many fewer that I think walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

Hi SD!

But, we are to judge. The bible never tells us to not judge. The verses that you may be referring to have got to be taken within their context.

We are to judge righteously. Which really just means that we are to judge ourselves first. We are to keep close and in line with God and His word. Daily, hourly, we have to submit to His voice and what it is saying to us, about our own behaviours, actions and attitudes.

We aren't to judge the hearts and minds of people. Only God knows the truth of what is in our heart and mind. But, we are responsible before God to judge the words and deeds of those within the body of Christ. We do this by holding as our standard, the Word of God.

SD, I know your insinuations are that I am mad at Christine because she wouldn't tell me what she knows about Nicholas' disappearance. And, you are right, to a point. I would love to know what she knows about Nicholas' disappearance.

Mad at and not forgiving Christine are inaccurate. She sought me out for her own purposes. To manipulate information that I would post on this message board. She wanted to use people. Still is using some of you. She lied to me. That is where I take issue and am holding Christine accountable.

Religion has every place in this conversation. Nicholas and Christine's Christian beliefs shape who they are. Christine talks a talk and puts out scripture very self righteously. But, her actions, to people on message boards, that don't agree with her, are anything but Christ like. Yeah, I'll keep holding her accountable for how she portrays Christ. She has a responsibility, along with posting scripture after scripture, in God, to ask forgiveness of those that she has been extremely rude to and used. Never have seen that done. Am holding out hope that she will.

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I agree with what you have said, indeed your post voices many of my thoughts exactly.

I find it interesting about his Yah Hooray account being so recently logged into, and the owner of B3 not returning your email.

I think it most likely that he went to meet a male friend the night he went missing. He didn't have much time, a female would probably need more time with him. Also if there was foul play, a male might have an easier time disposing of the body (sorry for being so graphic).

It's also entirely possible that something caused him to decide to not go home again. Too many drugs and passing out, not waking up till the morning and fear of confrontation with the wife, might be a reason. He may have been fantasizing leaving for a long time and just left on impulse. There are many possibilities.

Please keep us updated on the information you find Silver Dove, I really appreciate anything you can come up with.

Many Blessings

Where has it ever been mentioned that Nicholas might be doing drugs? Why would you even mention that as a possibility?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Of course I only know the words that come out of their mouths or the words they write. I have no way of knowing if they think anything or just open their mouths or let their fingers type things without ever engaging a thought to them.

(highlighted by me)
Well that would go along with my impression of LE's "investigation" into NF's disappearance.

[Musterion]

Just because I don't believe that Christine had anything to do with his disappearance and I don't think she knows where he is, doesn't mean I don't want him found. I still search for anything that might be a trace and I still wonder why his account on yay hooray is being signed into as recently as April 27, 2009. I wonder why the owner of B3 won't just return an email saying no he isn't posting on the board if he isn't. I wonder why his parents aren't still moving heaven and earth to find him. I wonder if he is still has his "second" job on the internet using a friends SS number if he needs one. I wonder why so many people I talk to about him think he is alive and in hiding (including police) but people on the board are still trying to find a way that Christine killed him no matter how far out the idea is.

I wonder why people compare Christine to Drew when the cases are nothing alike but can see anything in common with David Lee Rockey. Maybe it is because I don't follow a set of "rules" of what is or isn't the way missing persons cases go. This is the first time I have followed a case on a board although not the first time I've followed one or known what happened even before it was announced so I follow my own instincts and put the information together the way it makes the most sense to me.

I'm still looking for answers but I still don't see the same things some people seem to see here.

Why would the owner of the B3 answer yours or my questions about Nicholas? As you have stated, many times, this is just a message board with anonymous posters, so why would anyone spill information to them?

Comparison between Christine and Drew, IMO, is because they moved on quickly after their spouse went missing. Those stories have not had endings yet. We don't know how they are going to turn out. Rockey's story does have an ending.

IMO.
M.

[elf999]

Where has it ever been mentioned that Nicholas might be doing drugs? Why would you even mention that as a possibility?

I have not seen it mentioned anywhere that he might be doing drugs that I can recall. The mention of drugs was just speculation, not in any way meant to defame him, devalue him or hurt his reputation, nor imply that he does them. Just another possibility to consider.

Many Blessings

[elf999]

Of course I only know the words that come out of their mouths or the words they write. I have no way of knowing if they think anything or just open their mouths or let their fingers type things without ever engaging a thought to them.

Thanks for the ROFL laugh! Yah, does sound like some people I know lol.

Many Blessings

[Musterion]

Where has it ever been mentioned that Nicholas might be doing drugs? Why would you even mention that as a possibility?

That is exactly what I was just about to post, Rainy. Thank you for asking.

The story that elf has just described is the exact, almost word for word story, that Christine has told.

Elf said s/he had not ever met nor spoken with Christine. Did not say hadn't PM'd or IM'd.

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Thanks for the ROFL laugh! Yah, does sound like some people I know lol.

Many Blessings


Unfortunately though, I believe that SD was referring to LE in that post - her response to a post by N/T. Nothing funny about LE projecting that image. JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

That is exactly what I was just about to post, Rainy. Thank you for asking.

The story that elf has just described is the exact, almost word for word story, that Christine has told.
Elf said s/he had not ever met nor spoken with Christine. Did not say hadn't PM'd or IM'd.

IMO.
M.

(highlighted by me)
I found it quite disgusting - now I find it quite disturbing, along with disgusting.

[Starkist]

Of course I only know the words that come out of their mouths or the words they write. I have no way of knowing if they think anything or just open their mouths or let their fingers type things without ever engaging a thought to them.

Then there are those with overactive imaginations and obsessive fixations on others...

[Starkist]

That is exactly what I was just about to post, Rainy. Thank you for asking.

The story that elf has just described is the exact, almost word for word story, that Christine has told.

Elf said s/he had not ever met nor spoken with Christine. Did not say hadn't PM'd or IM'd.

IMO.
M.

They call posts and posters like that, "plants". All C has grown though, from what I can see, is a very large sap tree.

[Starkist]

(highlighted by me)
I found it quite disgusting - now I find it quite disturbing, along with disgusting.

ITA!

This is not funny nor is it a game. Nick is MISSING and NO ONE HERE knows WHY! I don't care with whom you have spoke or PMed or emailed, it is all mere speculation on the conclusions you have come to and theories you have formed.

[RainyNiteNTx]

ITA!

This is not funny nor is it a game. Nick is MISSING and NO ONE HERE knows WHY! I don't care with whom you have spoke or PMed or emailed, it is all mere speculation on the conclusions you have come to and theories you have formed.

...and some of the theories are quite degrading in nature, and now we learn some of those theories came from Christine. The question is why. JMO

[SilverDove]

...and some of the theories are quite degrading in nature, and now we learn some of those theories came from Christine. The question is why. JMO

Are we trying to find out what might have happened to Nicholas or are we just here to protect his reputation? I've heard some really degrading theories about Christine, too.

I was under the impression that everything needed to be looked into in order to try to find Nicholas. Seems that since we can't be sure of anything about either of them all theories should be open until they are proved false.

[elf999]

(highlighted by me)
I found it quite disgusting - now I find it quite disturbing, along with disgusting.


It is hard to see how speculating about someone is "disgusting". After all, that is what this board is about.

It's too bad you feel disgust for my trying to help in this case, I do care about Nicholas. I can't remember the last time I actually made someone feel disgust and I'm sorry that I made you feel that way. However your "digust" is misguided. And sadly you are deflecting conversation on this board away from trying to find Nicholas, which does no one any good, least of all Nicholas.

And BTW to all who wonder, I will repeat:

I have no acquaintance with Christine nor anybody involved in this case, at all. I have never spoken to, seen, written to, PM'd, or communicated with in any way shape or form, any person involved in this case, whether it be Christine, or Nicholas, or any of their friends or acquaintances, nor written to them, nor PM'd them.

Many Blessings

[Starkist]

Are we trying to find out what might have happened to Nicholas or are we just here to protect his reputation? I've heard some really degrading theories about Christine, too.
I was under the impression that everything needed to be looked into in order to try to find Nicholas. Seems that since we can't be sure of anything about either of them all theories should be open until they are proved false.

So you're under the impression that "tit for tat" is fair play? Because someone degraded her, you find it necessary to even the score by degrading Nick? Is that how you justify it?

If everything needs to be looked at, so does C and what could have been her actions for that evening. If speculating she had killed Nick or had him killed, offends you, then you are not investigating this case with an open mind. A good investigator does not take sides no matter what the situation. We only have one side of the story and until Nick is found, her recant is not the total answer to why he went and is still missing.

[Musterion]

Are we trying to find out what might have happened to Nicholas or are we just here to protect his reputation? I've heard some really degrading theories about Christine, too.

I was under the impression that everything needed to be looked into in order to try to find Nicholas. Seems that since we can't be sure of anything about either of them all theories should be open until they are proved false.

Well, Christine seems to be able to have a mouth and fingers that type so she can have people defend her. Nicholas doesn't. Yes, I think protecting his reputation is a good thing to do. Now, should we talk about his life and a secret life. Yes, respectfully.

I would like to revisit some things. I'd like to revisit why Christine lied about the conception of her child. I'd like to analyze that and find out exactly why. Because that is just one of the many things that, if we know, we may have a little better understanding of what happened to Nicholas.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Well, Christine seems to be able to have a mouth and fingers that type so she can have people defend her. Nicholas doesn't. Yes, I think protecting his reputation is a good thing to do. Now, should we talk about his life and a secret life. Yes, respectfully.

I would like to revisit some things. I'd like to revisit why Christine lied about the conception of her child. I'd like to analyze that and find out exactly why. Because that is just one of the many things that, if we know, we may have a little better understanding of what happened to Nicholas.

IMO.
M.

You have been interested in the exact date of Christine's conception for a while now. I'm really interested in why that is. No matter how I look at it, it would have still been when she and Nicholas were together. Do you know if Nicholas was way from the home when the conception happened? Could it have just been a miscalculation? Maybe she hadn't been to the doctor yet and though she was only just pregnant when Nicholas when missing but was really farther along.

The only way I see this as important is if we know that Nicholas was away or they weren't having relations at the time she conceived.

I guess it could show that she lies but it could also be just a mistake.

I would love to know why you feel this could lead to understanding what happened to Nicholas because I'm just not seeing it.

Also I don't really think this is about defending it is about finding. I also don't see it being that easy for Christine to defend herself since she has already been judged and found wanting in so many ways. At this point some people wouldn't believe anything she tried to say if it wasn't what they wanted to hear.

[Starkist]

Just because Nick was still there when C conceived, does not automatically make him the man that fathered that child. Too bad you cannot see that possibility.

[Musterion]

You have been interested in the exact date of Christine's conception for a while now. I'm really interested in why that is. No matter how I look at it, it would have still been when she and Nicholas were together. Do you know if Nicholas was way from the home when the conception happened? Could it have just been a miscalculation? Maybe she hadn't been to the doctor yet and though she was only just pregnant when Nicholas when missing but was really farther along.

The only way I see this as important is if we know that Nicholas was away or they weren't having relations at the time she conceived.

I guess it could show that she lies but it could also be just a mistake.

I would love to know why you feel this could lead to understanding what happened to Nicholas because I'm just not seeing it.

Also I don't really think this is about defending it is about finding. I also don't see it being that easy for Christine to defend herself since she has already been judged and found wanting in so many ways. At this point some people wouldn't believe anything she tried to say if it wasn't what they wanted to hear.

(Bolding mine.)

No. IMO. Re-read this. Christine is an exceptionally adamant woman about what week this or that is happening. This isn't someone who, well, I kinda think I might be pregnant, or, Oh wow, I hope I'm pregnant. No, she said, at seven weeks that she felt the baby move.

Remember this in response to you then, and now.

"Maybe the inconsistencies I see are nothing at all. Mean nothing. Maybe they mean everything. Let's look at it though.

Christine is saying that her child was born six weeks early. Her baby was born 31 August 2008.

Each of the statements (from Christine's own words herself or what she has told others) below figure the baby to be born around 12 October 2008.

That means, for her to be due around 12 October, the conception would have taken place around 20 January.

"Your due date is October 12, 2008.

Your baby was conceived around January 20, 2008.

Your first trimester begins January 06, 2008.
Your second trimester begins March 31, 2008.
Your third trimester begins July 14, 2008."

Read more: "Due Date Calculator" - http://www.justmommies.com

Throughout these quotes below Christine is basically saying that she was pregnant around 29 or 30 December 2007.

"Your due date is September 22, 2008.

Your baby was conceived around December 31, 2007.

Your first trimester begins December 17, 2007.
Your second trimester begins March 11, 2008.
Your third trimester begins June 24, 2008."

Read more: "Due Date Calculator" - http://www.justmommies.com

"--- "Christine has two children, ages 4 and 2 and has one on the way. She is 7 weeks pregnant today."

Posted by Mineral Magic Cosmetics on February 18, 2008 at 8:46am

http://www.indiepublic.com/profiles/...logPost:298285

(31 December 2007 Conception Date. 22 September 2008 Due Date.)

---20 May "it's a boy"

Christine Francisco on May 20, 2008 at 11:27 am
It’s a Boy!
http://supportingchristine.wordpress.co ...

----I am 7 weeks pregnant today with our 3rd child. (30 December 2007 Conception Date)

Christine
rinnovi body spa
bella style boutique
Posted at 9:50 pm, February 17 2008 EST

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?t ... 50&page=30

---I felt our baby move last night. I was so excited I tried to call Nicholas to tell him but then i remembered......
Posted at 12:15 pm, February 18 2008 EST

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?t ... 50&page=76

--http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?t ... 23&page=53

rinnovibodyspa says:
I hate waiting. it just kills me. i wish i could be out there searching. i wasn't pregnant i would be. i had a miscarriage in june and i don't want to do anything to compromise this pregnancy. I told nicholas i was pregnant on his birthday in january.
Posted at 6:54 pm, February 23 2008 EST

--http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?t ... 23&page=81

yes i am as of today 8 weeks pregnant. you all should understand that this amount of stress and trauma can contribute if not cause a miscarriage in the first trimester. So i need to keep my stress as low as possible at this point (which under the circumstances is nearly impossible).Posted at 10:20 pm, February 23 2008 EST (conception 29 December 2007)

--I will never stop searching for him. i am now 10.5 weeks pregnant with our third, i was 6.5 weeks when he went missing. we all miss him.March 13th, 2008 at 01:36 AM (conception around 30 December 2007)

I start my second trimester Sunday and it will be a relief to be out of the first trimester. (6 April was Sunday) (29 December conception date has second semester starting 9 April 2008)

on April 2, 2008 at 9:25 pm Christine Francisco
http://supportingchristine.wordpress.co ... ur-family/"

Taken from Cheri's board:

http://www.cherigriffiths.com/phpbb3...hp?f=72&t=1441

What I find curious is why the discrepancy. There would be no need for it. If her baby was born three weeks early instead of six, what would that matter? Unless????

JMO.
M

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=351897&page=5

Post #196"

It matters, SD. Whether you want to think it does or not. There is a lie somewhere in here. Finding out why she would lie about that and about billboards that she wouldn't have put up for Nicholas: all she had to do was sign and they would have been up free of charge. Why she would lie about LE saying she could not talk about the case. And more.

I've explained this so many times, but I'll stay on this board and continue to post and re-post the discrepancies for as long as it takes to get answers.

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Are we trying to find out what might have happened to Nicholas or are we just here to protect his reputation? I've heard some really degrading theories about Christine, too.

I was under the impression that everything needed to be looked into in order to try to find Nicholas. Seems that since we can't be sure of anything about either of them all theories should be open until they are proved false.

(highlighted by me)
This seems to only apply to Nicholas.

[RainyNiteNTx]

It is hard to see how speculating about someone is "disgusting". After all, that is what this board is about.

It's too bad you feel disgust for my trying to help in this case, I do care about Nicholas. I can't remember the last time I actually made someone feel disgust and I'm sorry that I made you feel that way. However your "digust" is misguided. And sadly you are deflecting conversation on this board away from trying to find Nicholas, which does no one any good, least of all Nicholas.

And BTW to all who wonder, I will repeat:

I have no acquaintance with Christine nor anybody involved in this case, at all. I have never spoken to, seen, written to, PM'd, or communicated with in any way shape or form, any person involved in this case, whether it be Christine, or Nicholas, or any of their friends or acquaintances, nor written to them, nor PM'd them.

Many Blessings

Elf - your tactics won't work on me. For the record, I find it more than odd that you came up with a theory out of the blue and it is the exact theory that Christine told Musterion. To my knowledge, and I have been on this forum since the day Nicholas went missing, no one has ever suggested he was on drugs. They have suggested everything else, but not drugs. I find that more than a coincidence.

[SilverDove]

Oh now I understand you aren't worried about when the baby is due but about things that seem and/or are lies. With the amount that she posted and the stress she was under I'm personally not surprised there are something that don't match. Also the fact that she found mor information about Nicholas' secret over the weeks after he went missing seemed to cause some of the changes. Stress does some really strange things to the brain. When I was under some of the heaver stress times in my life I could have messed up the Lords Prayer. I'm still really interested in why you think the 3 week difference is so important. I'm just not seeing what it could mean.

I also know that was a "wonderful" post call cry me a river where someone went though and found every little thing the could about Christine and what she had ever posted anywhere complete with their interpretation of all of it always done to make Christine look as bad as possible.

Who was going to put up the Billboards and why did she have to sign off for them? It would seem that if someone wanted to do it they could just pay for them and have them put up. Also did they want to put them up before or after she found out her marriage was broken worse then she had ever thought it could be?

I'm also guessing if I felt like it I could go through the whole cry me a river post and make it all much more innocent.

People here have twisted things I have posted into totally different things then what was posted even in the last page so I guess I feel more for Christine because I have seen my words twisted as bad as Christine's.

[SilverDove]

(highlighted by me)
This seems to only apply to Nicholas.

You or any of the rest of the Anti Christine people haven't been stopped from posting theories you just haven't been agreed with and they have been questioned. Just the same way you and the rest have questioned anything that you feel is some how mean to Nicholas. The people who have been banned for anything here have either posted the wrong link :sad: or have been on the attack against other posters.

I personally have no problem with any of the theories and have tried to make complete posts about what I think instead of just a drive by comment. All the different theories make me think and try to figure if they make sense or if they might be true.

From my point of view it seems the only theories that are welcome here are the ones that make Christine the bad guy.

[RainyNiteNTx]

You or any of the rest of the Anti Christine people haven't been stopped from posting theories you just haven't been agreed with and they have been questioned. Just the same way you and the rest have questioned anything that you feel is some how mean to Nicholas. The people who have been banned for anything here have either posted the wrong link :sad: or have been on the attack against other posters.

I personally have no problem with any of the theories and have tried to make complete posts about what I think instead of just a drive by comment. All the different theories make me think and try to figure if they make sense or if they might be true.

From my point of view it seems the only theories that are welcome here are the ones that make Christine the bad guy.

Follow any of my posts on any forum and you will find I am for the missing. Sorry if that does not set well with you. I believe there is more to this story than meets the eye and I believe you have even stated that as well.

[elf999]

Elf - your tactics won't work on me. For the record, I find it more than odd that you came up with a theory out of the blue and it is the exact theory that Christine told Musterion. To my knowledge, and I have been on this forum since the day Nicholas went missing, no one has ever suggested he was on drugs. They have suggested everything else, but not drugs. I find that more than a coincidence.

I'm sorry that you think there is something underhanded about me, that I employing some kind of "tactics", or that I am somebody that I am not.

I'm pretty sure I saw theories about drugs posted here and there on this board when Nicholas first went missing. Most of them were cut off very quickly if I recall, because people wanted to focus on Christine.

There could be alot more useful discussion involving helping Nicholas if people would just sit back and chill, instead of attacking and making accusations that can't be substantiated.

Many Blessings

[elf999]

As far as Christine's pregnancy is concerned, things can get very confusing when you're just pregnant, let alone have a missing husband. When I was pregnant with my older daughter my due date was changed 2 times. I never knew the date that I conceived. She was premature and she was either 6 weeks, 4 weeks, or 2 weeks early, depending on which due date was actually correct.

Many Blessings

[Musterion]

Oh now I understand you aren't worried about when the baby is due but about things that seem and/or are lies. With the amount that she posted and the stress she was under I'm personally not surprised there are something that don't match. Also the fact that she found mor information about Nicholas' secret over the weeks after he went missing seemed to cause some of the changes. Stress does some really strange things to the brain. When I was under some of the heaver stress times in my life I could have messed up the Lords Prayer. I'm still really interested in why you think the 3 week difference is so important. I'm just not seeing what it could mean.

I also know that was a "wonderful" post call cry me a river where someone went though and found every little thing the could about Christine and what she had ever posted anywhere complete with their interpretation of all of it always done to make Christine look as bad as possible.

Who was going to put up the Billboards and why did she have to sign off for them? It would seem that if someone wanted to do it they could just pay for them and have them put up. Also did they want to put them up before or after she found out her marriage was broken worse then she had ever thought it could be?

I'm also guessing if I felt like it I could go through the whole cry me a river post and make it all much more innocent.

People here have twisted things I have posted into totally different things then what was posted even in the last page so I guess I feel more for Christine because I have seen my words twisted as bad as Christine's.

SD, I am concerned about every lie, discrepancy, that I see or feel that Christine has told.

I think you are a thoughtful poster. I have tried to let you know that, despite being ridiculed by you again and again.

Three weeks is not the issue in and of itself. Please, listen to me. What is at issue is the sum and total of 'discrepancies' or 'lies'.

You are someone who has, from your own admission, followed cases like this for a while. You, also know, that I am someone who, very carefully, called posters on their distortion of what I felt was the context of what Christine was saying, her actions.

If you've followed cases for years, does not one little discrepancy pique your ears? Call you to question?

If you can get past your evident distaste for me, I'd appreciate an answer from a true, middle of the road (as you say you are) investigator.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

As far as Christine's pregnancy is concerned, things can get very confusing when you're just pregnant, let alone have a missing husband. When I was pregnant with my older daughter my due date was changed 2 times. I never knew the date that I conceived. She was premature and she was either 6 weeks, 4 weeks, or 2 weeks early, depending on which due date was actually correct.

Many Blessings

That's interesting, Elf.

But, Christine swore she was an expert on such things.

With the kicking of the baby at seven weeks.

Here is what she told me on 7 May: "I did feel the baby move at 7 weeks. I felt noah move that early too. It's no impossible. Depends on how many pregnancies you have had, how active your baby is, how in tune you are with your body and how your body is built. you see i have a really tiny pelvis structure and such and I'm short waisted. I also started showing a week before i even knew i was pregnant. so just thought i'd give you that tid bit of info since it has always been questioned..."

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I'm sorry that you think there is something underhanded about me, that I employing some kind of "tactics", or that I am somebody that I am not.

I'm pretty sure I saw theories about drugs posted here and there on this board when Nicholas first went missing. Most of them were cut off very quickly if I recall, because people wanted to focus on Christine.

There could be alot more useful discussion involving helping Nicholas if people would just sit back and chill, instead of attacking and making accusations that can't be substantiated.

Many Blessings

Aw...Elf....really? Come on, 'I'm sorry you think' is not any kind of apology but really a 'disguise' of disdain and ridicule. Rise above, my fellow poster.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

You or any of the rest of the Anti Christine people haven't been stopped from posting theories you just haven't been agreed with and they have been questioned. Just the same way you and the rest have questioned anything that you feel is some how mean to Nicholas. The people who have been banned for anything here have either posted the wrong link :sad: or have been on the attack against other posters.

I personally have no problem with any of the theories and have tried to make complete posts about what I think instead of just a drive by comment. All the different theories make me think and try to figure if they make sense or if they might be true.

From my point of view it seems the only theories that are welcome here are the ones that make Christine the bad guy.

We are definitely not reading the same board.

IMO.
M.

[elf999]

SD, I am concerned about every lie, discrepancy, that I see or feel that Christine has told.

I think you are a thoughtful poster. I have tried to let you know that, despite being ridiculed by you again and again.

Three weeks is not the issue in and of itself. Please, listen to me. What is at issue is the sum and total of 'discrepancies' or 'lies'.

You are someone who has, from your own admission, followed cases like this for a while. You, also know, that I am someone who, very carefully, called posters on their distortion of what I felt was the context of what Christine was saying, her actions.

If you've followed cases for years, does not one little discrepancy pique your ears? Call you to question?

If you can get past your evident distaste for me, I'd appreciate an answer from a true, middle of the road (as you say you are) investigator.

IMO.
M.

Hi Musterion,

I just wanted to say something in response to your post, even though it wasn't directed at me.

In the overall scheme of things, I think that we human beings are generally inconsistent creatures.

For instance it has been shown that people's memories of things actually change each time that we have them. I think it works something like, each time you remember something your brain recalls it, and when it stores it again afterwards, it's slightly altered from the way it was recalled... so over time, even our memories change. Another example of our natural inconsistencies as humans might be the way people view and remember an accident or crime for instance. Eyewitnesses to accidents and crimes are notorious for disagreeing among themselves on what happened when they view the *very same* experiences.

I also think many inconstencies can be explained away by simple mistakes, or distractions in thought.

That is why I don't find small inconstencies, with simple potential explanations, in themselves to be suspicious. I need more than that, to become suspicious.

I'm tired and hope I am making sense. JMO of course.

Many Blessings

[elf999]

Aw...Elf....really? Come on, 'I'm sorry you think' is not any kind of apology but really a 'disguise' of disdain and ridicule. Rise above, my fellow poster.

IMO.
M.

I don't really understand your post, I had nothing to apologize to Rainy for, but I am really sorry she thinks that I'm something that I'm not. It would be nice if she could see who I really am.

Many Blessings

[Starkist]

I don't really understand your post, I had nothing to apologize to Rainy for, but I am really sorry she thinks that I'm something that I'm not. It would be nice if she could see who I really am.

Many Blessings

We do know you have something to apologize for though. The altering of a post addressing you and making it appear as though the OP was insulting you. You changed wording and fed it to the moderator which resulted in that poster getting banned for your dishonesty. :thumbdown:

[worried]

I know I am a bit late in the game here, but I just watched the Greta and Christine "Fox" interview this evening. There is something about that whole interview that rubbed me the wrong way. Christine seemed fake and her emotions seemed forced. However, how could she make a man disappear when she was pregnant and had two little children to attend to? Has any of the allegations of Nicholas' "other life" been confirmed or is it just Christine's word? I also find it very hard to believe that someone would voluntarily take off with only $50.00 and no car! Perhaps it was a co-worker or an outside relationship that made him disappear and Christine enjoyed basking in the spotlight for her 10 minutes of fame? Who is this new "religious" man that Christine married? I can see why she hurried along to find a husband. She has three children and very little money. It would be much easier to have help in raising three children. If Nicholas was truly living a double life, perhaps CF found out about it prior to his disappearance which might explain why they dropped out of their church two days before he goes missing. Yet in the Greta interview, CF goes on and on about how much NF loved her and his children. From everything I have read thus far on various sites, CF sure has some loyal believers that she is some sort of Christian saint. This case is just so strange!

[SeattleEddie]

I'm sorry that you think there is something underhanded about me, that I employing some kind of "tactics", or that I am somebody that I am not.

I'm pretty sure I saw theories about drugs posted here and there on this board when Nicholas first went missing. Most of them were cut off very quickly if I recall, because people wanted to focus on Christine.

There could be alot more useful discussion involving helping Nicholas if people would just sit back and chill, instead of attacking and making accusations that can't be substantiated.

Many Blessings

such as, Nicholas was using drugs? Nicholas was having sex with men, women? Nicholas was sending naked photos via internet? Nicholas was participating in sex clubs? etc etc etc

[RainyNiteNTx]

such as, Nicholas was using drugs? Nicholas was having sex with men, women? Nicholas was sending naked photos via internet? Nicholas was participating in sex clubs? etc etc etc

Hey Eddie - yes, those would be the ones.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I know I am a bit late in the game here, but I just watched the Greta and Christine "Fox" interview this evening. There is something about that whole interview that rubbed me the wrong way. Christine seemed fake and her emotions seemed forced. However, how could she make a man disappear when she was pregnant and had two little children to attend to? Has any of the allegations of Nicholas' "other life" been confirmed or is it just Christine's word? I also find it very hard to believe that someone would voluntarily take off with only $50.00 and no car! Perhaps it was a co-worker or an outside relationship that made him disappear and Christine enjoyed basking in the spotlight for her 10 minutes of fame? Who is this new "religious" man that Christine married? I can see why she hurried along to find a husband. She has three children and very little money. It would be much easier to have help in raising three children. If Nicholas was truly living a double life, perhaps CF found out about it prior to his disappearance which might explain why they dropped out of their church two days before he goes missing. Yet in the Greta interview, CF goes on and on about how much NF loved her and his children. From everything I have read thus far on various sites, CF sure has some loyal believers that she is some sort of Christian saint. This case is just so strange!

Hey Worried - what you stated above is the tip of the iceberg. When Nicholas went missing, and we were discussing the case here, Christine was blogging and was adamant that Nicholas loved her, would not leave her, and actually called posters here as having "slandering tunnelvision". We were not to discuss any theories or entertain the thought that Nicholas might have left her. Then suddenly there is a "secret life" and we are all supposed to jump on THAT train.

As for CFC having supporters, I don't find that odd. Even people like Scott Peterson and Casey Anthony have supporters.

I do not believe CFC killed Nicholas; however I do believe there is a lot more to this story than has been told. I believe there are parts of the story that are untrue, and parts that hold half truths. JMO

[elf999]

We do know you have something to apologize for though. The altering of a post addressing you and making it appear as though the OP was insulting you. You changed wording and fed it to the moderator which resulted in that poster getting banned for your dishonesty. :thumbdown:

This is a completely untrue statement. I would never do something like that. Besides, no one can get banned except through their own actions and words. I'd give the moderators a bit more credit than that.

It surprises me that the moderators don't ban some of the people on this board who persistently attack people who have a real interest in helping find Nicholas and are just trying to help in this case.

Many Blessings

[worried]

One of the other things that I am having a hard time with is this: If CF is such a devout Christian, why did she drag her husband through the mud publicly? Why couldn't she just have said "I have recently come into some personal information that leads me to believe that my husband may have left on his own accord" and left it at that. Again, who leaves voluntarily with $50.00 and no transportation? It also bothers me that he would leave on Valentines Day. If there was no longer any love left for the couple, you would think that he would have been there for his kids. Watch the Greta interview. It is chilling. CF seemed so far removed from everything, like she was going through the motions. Any emotions that she showed AT ALL seemed forced. I see she has photos up under Christine Carter. It appears by her photos that she has a love of water. Didn't someone say that she thought Nicholas was near water early on? There was a 4 hour window between the last alleged phone call between CF and NF and the time that CF called authorities. If my husband had called at 6pm and said he was on his way home and did not show, I do not think I would wait for 4hours to call LE. Does anyone know CF's height and weight?

[worried]

The more I hear about CF's derogatory statements about NF, the madder I get. The genuine Christians that I know are not out banging their bibles, quoting scriptures and shouting their religion from the rooftops. They are too busy "walking the walk" to "talk the talk". It has been my experience that the most boisterous and obnoxious religious people are usually using religion to divert attention from their true selves.

[Starkist]

This is a completely untrue statement. I would never do something like that. Besides, no one can get banned except through their own actions and words. I'd give the moderators a bit more credit than that.

It surprises me that the moderators don't ban some of the people on this board who persistently attack people who have a real interest in helping find Nicholas and are just trying to help in this case.

Many Blessings

And again you are wrong on your thoughts.

[Musterion]

One of the other things that I am having a hard time with is this: If CF is such a devout Christian, why did she drag her husband through the mud publicly? Why couldn't she just have said "I have recently come into some personal information that leads me to believe that my husband may have left on his own accord" and left it at that. Again, who leaves voluntarily with $50.00 and no transportation? It also bothers me that he would leave on Valentines Day. If there was no longer any love left for the couple, you would think that he would have been there for his kids. Watch the Greta interview. It is chilling. CF seemed so far removed from everything, like she was going through the motions. Any emotions that she showed AT ALL seemed forced. I see she has photos up under Christine Carter. It appears by her photos that she has a love of water. Didn't someone say that she thought Nicholas was near water early on? There was a 4 hour window between the last alleged phone call between CF and NF and the time that CF called authorities. If my husband had called at 6pm and said he was on his way home and did not show, I do not think I would wait for 4hours to call LE. Does anyone know CF's height and weight?

Hi worried,

You have good insight. IMO.

There was a man who went missing the day before or after Nicholas went missing. Viliamu Fale. His wife worked at the Costco that was near Nicholas' house and where Nicholas was supposed to stop for sugar before going home. For a long time we wondered if the two cases were related. Well, some of us still wonder.

Viliamu was listed, immediately, on LE's missing site. But, a few days later he was taken off. His wife said exactly what you just stated that Christine should have said. She said that it was now a private matter. End of story. No reputation ruined, whether he deserved it or not.

You're right, no one had to know about this secret life. But, it made its way onto the boards and public because Christine was telling people.

IMO. Christine has knowledge of what happened to Nicholas.

M.

[Musterion]

The more I hear about CF's derogatory statements about NF, the madder I get. The genuine Christians that I know are not out banging their bibles, quoting scriptures and shouting their religion from the rooftops. They are too busy "walking the walk" to "talk the talk". It has been my experience that the most boisterous and obnoxious religious people are usually using religion to divert attention from their true selves.

I just want to hug you, worried! I could not have said it better myself! I agree 1000%. Thank you for your post.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

I fear I have made a mistake about the missing persons boards. When I started posting here I thought the purpose was to find the clues to what might have happened to the missing person and if possible using what was found to find them. I have now come to realize that the real purpose is to protect the reputation of the person who is missing no matter if it might have something to do with how they ended up missing. To give them comfort if they walked away. To make life as miserable as possible for anyone who doesn't fall into line or doesn't behave in the "proper" manner. Personally I find that sad. I guess you can all keep looking in the water and churches since of course those are the only two places that a man like Nicholas could possibly be.

[elf999]

I fear I have made a mistake about the missing persons boards. When I started posting here I thought the purpose was to find the clues to what might have happened to the missing person and if possible using what was found to find them. I have now come to realize that the real purpose is to protect the reputation of the person who is missing no matter if it might have something to do with how they ended up missing. To give them comfort if they walked away. To make life as miserable as possible for anyone who doesn't fall into line or doesn't behave in the "proper" manner. Personally I find that sad. I guess you can all keep looking in the water and churches since of course those are the only two places that a man like Nicholas could possibly be.

Sadly, I agree with you Silver Dove. I also would like to add a few things to your list about how this board is being used, instead of helping to find Nicholas:
1)to vent one's personal hostilities, anger and frustration on to both individuals involved in the case that one doesn't like, and individuals whose opinions one disagrees with
2)to gossip and chastise people involved in the case for not being perfect and acting in perfect ways, without regard to how it might hurt them
3)to control and manipulate people
4)to pick on, mock, and ridicule people


Many Blessings

[Cury-us Coyote]

I agree with what you have said, indeed your post voices many of my thoughts exactly.

I find it interesting about his Yah Hooray account being so recently logged into, and the owner of B3 not returning your email.

I think it most likely that he went to meet a male friend the night he went missing. He didn't have much time, a female would probably need more time with him. Also if there was foul play, a male might have an easier time disposing of the body (sorry for being so graphic).

It's also entirely possible that something caused him to decide to not go home again. Too many drugs and passing out, not waking up till the morning and fear of confrontation with the wife, might be a reason. He may have been fantasizing leaving for a long time and just left on impulse. There are many possibilities.

Please keep us updated on the information you find Silver Dove, I really appreciate anything you can come up with.

Many Blessings

From information publically available, is the probability of CF's involvement in drugs less than, equal to, or greater than NF's probability?

[elf999]

From information publically available, is the probability of CF's involvement in drugs less than, equal to, or greater than NF's probability?

I don't have any idea if anybody is involved in drugs. The only reason I mentioned drugs was as a tool to give an example of a possible contributing factor to why Nicholas disappeared. I have already aplogized and stated that I did not intend in any way to state that I thought that Nicholas was involved in drugs, it was just speculation.

As far as to the likelihood of whether Nicholas or Christine was involved in drugs... well, if I must say so I think it is less likely Christine has been recently involved in drugs, because of her recent pregnancy and her stay-at-home mom lifestyle. Nicholas would have had more access to drugs and more freedom away from the home and children to do them.

It's also true, that if either Nicholas or Christine did do drugs, then there is more likelihood that the other did them too, simply because they were married for a few years, and shared many things.

But, I doubt that drugs is a huge factor in this, if any factor at all. Who knows, maybe somebody drugged Nicholas, he passed out and woke up in another town the next day.

Many Blessings

[Starkist]

As stated by LE, Nick has done nothing illegal. Using drugs for recreational purposes whether script or street bought, would be illegal. Therefore the thought that Nick may have been using drugs would be ruled out.

[worried]

Hi Musterion,
Thank you so much for your kind words! Silver Dove and Elf, I am sorry if my perception of things does not fall in line with yours. I am new to this case and I went and read many things about it. I was just stating MY opinions on how I see things. I do not know either party. IF NF took off on his own accord and is not paying child support or having anything to do with his children, of course, that would make him very low in my book. Additonally, if and I mean IF the things that CF said about NF are true in regards to his double life, that too, makes him low in my book. My gut instincts just tell me that he did not leave on his own , as your gut instincts tell you that he did. I have no problem with you writing possible scenarious in regards to NF whether it agrees with my feelings or not. That is what we are here for isn't it? We all have our own opinions and we all want to find out what the heck happened to NF! Here is some food for thought though. Has it occurred to either of you that the Francisco children have a hard road ahead of them. Their father is missing and may not be seen from again. Why would their mother make their situation worse by dragging his name through the mud all over the internet? I realize that they are young now, but it will not be long before they are on the internet. They may have problems at school with rumors, problems with other children, etc. I always thought you should protect your children from undo pain. Now you may want to quit reading at this point. I just have to say it, it is bugging the heck out of me. I don't understand how this Reverend Carter got involved with CF in the first place. Let's face it, not only does she have the hurdle of 3 small children but she also has a missing ex-husband. Reverend Carter is either a saint or he has his own skeletons rattling around in his closet.

[worried]

Elf,
I have gone back and re-read some of the posts. You state that anything said about CF is gossip and used to pick on, mock and redicule her. You also state that we are trying to control and manipulate. To what end? I cannot speak for anyone else on this board, you included, but I have never had any sort of personal involvement with either party. You have a tendency to get really personal when someone does not agree with your views on CF. Why is that? I also have not seen you on any other threads but this one, why is that? Why do you continue to allude to NF's secret life? Where is the proof of this. I truly want to know. Do you have any verifiable proof that NF led a secret life? Even if he was secretly meeting with aliens and had a wife on another planet, I just cannot believe he would leave with only $50.00 and no transportation. I am not being sarcastic when I ask this, but am I missing something? Is there a verifiable secret account with lots of money that went missing after NF disappeared? Additionally, why did CF go on and on and on and on about how NF would NEVER leave her or the children because he loved them so much. Then she does a 360 and pulls out the secret life scenario, again not showing ANY regard for her children but blasting it all over the internet and media. Was there a life insurance policy that I am missing? Perhaps a life insurance policy that would require a body. Was this why CF alluded to NF being near water? Maybe CF found out that NF had quit paying the life insurance and that is what really set her off, not the secret life scenario. See, now I am venting my own feelings, not yours, not silverdoves, just mine. I also do not have any personal hostilities that I am trying to put on someone else. I have a wonderful husband and fabulous children. I originally came to these boards for Amber Dubois, a lovely 14 year old missing in the town that I grew up in. In closing I would like to point out that when you accuse people of all kinds of nasty things and then end it with "Many Blessings", it makes you look a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

[MystryPhobia]

Elf,
I have gone back and re-read some of the posts. You state that anything said about CF is gossip and used to pick on, mock and redicule her. You also state that we are trying to control and manipulate. To what end? I cannot speak for anyone else on this board, you included, but I have never had any sort of personal involvement with either party. You have a tendency to get really personal when someone does not agree with your views on CF. Why is that? I also have not seen you on any other threads but this one, why is that? Why do you continue to allude to NF's secret life? Where is the proof of this. I truly want to know. Do you have any verifiable proof that NF led a secret life? Even if he was secretly meeting with aliens and had a wife on another planet, I just cannot believe he would leave with only $50.00 and no transportation. I am not being sarcastic when I ask this, but am I missing something? Is there a verifiable secret account with lots of money that went missing after NF disappeared? Additionally, why did CF go on and on and on and on about how NF would NEVER leave her or the children because he loved them so much. Then she does a 360 and pulls out the secret life scenario, again not showing ANY regard for her children but blasting it all over the internet and media. Was there a life insurance policy that I am missing? Perhaps a life insurance policy that would require a body. Was this why CF alluded to NF being near water? Maybe CF found out that NF had quit paying the life insurance and that is what really set her off, not the secret life scenario. See, now I am venting my own feelings, not yours, not silverdoves, just mine. I also do not have any personal hostilities that I am trying to put on someone else. I have a wonderful husband and fabulous children. I originally came to these boards for Amber Dubois, a lovely 14 year old missing in the town that I grew up in. In closing I would like to point out that when you accuse people of all kinds of nasty things and then end it with "Many Blessings", it makes you look a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

We have no idea how much money he had. He took out $50. That doesn't mean that was the only money he had or that he wasn't saving up and had money stashed somewhere. We don't know this. So, to say he only had $50, is just as much speculation.

I have been here for a long time but you will not see me on multiple threads. I usually follow one or two cases.. but the majority of my time is spent on this thread. What does that say to you about me?

What is verifiable proof of the secret life? I think Nicholas could be standing in front of some people and saying what he did and they would refuse to believe it. That gets us no closer to the truth. Text messages were discovered that led the investigation into the secret life. Text message from Nicholas' phone. Aside from that.. I, personally have spoken to people that have met Nicholas but knew him as Steven. They have gone to LE with what they know about him and their relationship with him. Has any of this led to Nicholas? NO.. that is the only thing that should matter to us.. who are still wanting to find out what happened to him.

As someone that has spoken with Christine.. I don't buy the life insurance story.. one bit. For one.. he had life insurance through work.. I kinda doubt that they had individual policies besides that. This was a woman that was so completely dependent on Nicholas that I think she lost who she was in him. Which is why I have never been able to see her as harming him. She doesn't fit the profile. IMO If Christine had killed Nicholas.. it would have been more of the Mary Winkler thing than a Drew Peterson thing.

If we try to address the post and not the poster then I think it helps personal feelings not to get in the way so much since I know sometimes it is harder said than done.. not to get personally involved. But.. lately this board has gotten off track with personal attacks. I don't think some even bother to read others posts with an open mind anymore. They see SilverDove's name or Elfs and their posts is scanned for something to argue about.. even if they too have made some valid points. That is sad to me since this board is about Nicholas. Not us.

[RainyNiteNTx]

As stated by LE, Nick has done nothing illegal. Using drugs for recreational purposes whether script or street bought, would be illegal. Therefore the thought that Nick may have been using drugs would be ruled out.

Of course Starkist, and there has never been any hint of illegal activity or drugs associated with Nicholas since he went missing. Why some people are trying to drag him further through the mud speaks more about them than it ever would about him IMO.

[RainyNiteNTx]

From information publically available, is the probability of CF's involvement in drugs less than, equal to, or greater than NF's probability?

From information publically available (which is what is being used as a barometer for Nicholas), it would have to be equal to. I don't believe either one of them were involved with drugs for the record.

[elf999]

There is not much use in my posting here because most are not going to see who I am, just a person who wants to help. People criticize and make accusations when I haven't done anything except try to help. I find myself explaining and apologizing, and it continues on anyway.

The truth is if one cannot speculate about what happened to Nicholas without involving anything that implies that he is less than perfect, one is never going to get anywhere in finding out what happened to him.

I think people are seeing Nicholas as all-good and Christine as all-bad, and seeing anyone who tries to say something about Nicholas they don't like, as all-bad too.

I'm sorry if some of my thoughts and criticisms as of late have seemed harsh. I have spoken the truth as I see it. When people attack a person, they respond in kind. I have been accused over and over again of being Christine and it has been stated as "fact" that I am her. I have been accused of deliberately getting someone banned. I have been criticised for my speculations about what happened to Nicholas. Musterion even said I was writing with "distain" just because I said I was sorry about something, when I was only just sad. These things hurt my feelings and make me a little angry and I try to respond without anger, and I do the best I can.

Maybe if I get a chance to read over the facts in the case again I can come up with some more ideas and I will post them. Most likely though, they will not be about Christine being involved.

It's too bad one of us isn't like Monk or Sherlock Holmes and could just come up with a great insight into this case, one big clue, that might help.

Be back later. Many Blessings to all.

[Starkist]

So much drama....:rolleyes:

Me thinks thou protesteth too much. ~Veritas vos Liberabit~

[worried]

Hi, Again, I am still rather new to this thread. I have spent hours reading and still feel I have barely scratched the surface. There is so much information out there. I only wish EVERY missing person got this much attention. My opinions came from what I have read thus far. In truth, I think part of it is I have a tendency to root for the underdog. We have two parties in this scenario. One party is alive, remarried and has defamed the other party. The other party is missing, possibly deceased and not around to defend himself. I wish some of CF and NF's friends were on this thread so that we could get some insight from people who truly knew them. Does anyone know if NF's family is seeing his children. Silverdove is right, they have been unbelievably quiet. I understand that is not unusual though as sad as that is. There are other missing cases where you barely hear anything from the family. Nancy Moyer's search efforts are being conducted by her loyal co-workers. There is a starting point for this in my opinion. I cannot help but think that the Francisco's seperation from Mars Hill a few days prior to NF's disappearance plays into all of this somehow. For the record, I came to CF being involved with NF's disappearance not based on one factor. The more I read the more all roads led back to her. People do not always behave the way we expect them to. However, it was her total inconsistencies over and over again that screamed out to me. Does anyone know why CF gave away the family pets after the disappearance? I find that odd. First the children loose their father and then their beloved pets. Didn't Shon Pernice dump Renee Pernice's dog in the park after she disappeared?

[worried]

Mysteryphobia,
I have gone back and re-read some older threads. You have stated all along that you want to protect the children. You got very heated when people suggested that the new baby may not have been NF's. Do you see my point at all about how the children are going to feel when they start roaming the internet and see all of their mothers accusations about their missing father? Do you find it odd at all that the mother gave away their family pets after their father went missing? My heart aches for those children. I wonder what they have been told. I certainly hope that CF was not responsible for NF's disappearance and then is telling the children that NF left them and elaborates about what a terrible person he was. Was CF's new husband every involved and or a member of Mars Hill? Just keeping the investigation going!

[SeattleEddie]

I can totally see your point here and I think you are very correct. She didn't respond the way that we thought she should have.

I think that there could be several reasons for this.. not all of them ending with her being his murderer... maybe she is slightly narcissistic. It just seems that some one so conniving as to have plotted and carried out the perfect crime.. up until this point.. would have been more prepared with how she was going to react and act to her husband being a missing person.

In my heart of hearts.. I just don't see her as having did anything to him. I am not closed off to someone showing me different or looking at her inconsistancies.

We do need to remember also.. you can have two people view the exact same thing and when you ask them to recount it.. you could get two totally different stories. It all depends on view point and that individual person. Perhaps some of her inconsistancies are really just us seeing things differently then she does.

Hi MP. I don't, and have never, believed that the wife killed NF. Maybe she crushed his spirit, but no, she did not physically kill him IMO. I do think there's a lot more to this story and the wife's words may reveal a part of it. She knows a lot more than she is saying. The wife is only relevant in so far as she provides clues to finding the missing man, IMO again. Others may disagree, but this is not the venue to support CFC; this is the venue to find NF.

I have my own personal theory about what happened to NF, and it does not include the wife physically killing NF.

On another topic, IF LE suspects CFC's involvement in Nicholas' disappearance, you can be sure they won't let her know until they have all their ducks in a row. Some posters insist that LE suspect CFC of nothing, but I wouldn't give much credence to what LE says at this point.

[SilverDove]

Hi MP. I don't, and have never, believed that the wife killed NF. Maybe she crushed his spirit, but no, she did not physically kill him IMO. I do think there's a lot more to this story and the wife's words may reveal a part of it. She knows a lot more than she is saying. The wife is only relevant in so far as she provides clues to finding the missing man, IMO again. Others may disagree, but this is not the venue to support CFC; this is the venue to find NF.

I have my own personal theory about what happened to NF, and it does not include the wife physically killing NF.

On another topic, IF LE suspects CFC's involvement in Nicholas' disappearance, you can be sure they won't let her know until they have all their ducks in a row. Some posters insist that LE suspect CFC of nothing, but I wouldn't give much credence to what LE says at this point.

Bolded by me.

Here in is the problem we can't believe LE, we can't believe Christine, we can't believe the web sites that were found, we can't believe that anyone emailed Mystery. So everyone is picking and choosing what they want to believe based on their life experience.

Christine killed him or had him killed because we all know the spouse did it. Nicholas was messing around because we all know men do that. Christine is a bad Christian because she doesn't act like a "good" Christian wife should. Nicholas had his spirit crushed so had to take off to protect himself. Christine didn't behave the way we would have so something must be wrong with her and she is hiding something. On and on it goes depending on our own life experience.

Then since we have all thrown out anything we don't want to be a part of this based on our life experience if anyone disagrees it has to be an attack on us because we all know we have to be right because it is our experience so that ends up with us attacking each other because we know if "we" are good and they are disagreeing when "they" must be bad.

In the end we can't agree on what is or isn't important what is true so we go round and round and no one is trying to find Nicholas just defend our own life experience.

[MystryPhobia]

Mysteryphobia,
I have gone back and re-read some older threads. You have stated all along that you want to protect the children. You got very heated when people suggested that the new baby may not have been NF's. Do you see my point at all about how the children are going to feel when they start roaming the internet and see all of their mothers accusations about their missing father? Do you find it odd at all that the mother gave away their family pets after their father went missing? My heart aches for those children. I wonder what they have been told. I certainly hope that CF was not responsible for NF's disappearance and then is telling the children that NF left them and elaborates about what a terrible person he was. Was CF's new husband every involved and or a member of Mars Hill? Just keeping the investigation going!
I do feel terribly for the children and to have people come on this thread and imply that they are not Nicholas' children.. when he is missing and could be dead. To have them say that they look nothing like him.. stuff like that.. is extremely hurtful and I didn't see how it benefited the search for him. It seemed just an attack on Christine at the expense of the baby... which added no real value into his disappearance. That was sad to me.

That being said.. if any of those children are not Nicholas' children than that very well could be a clue into what happened to him. I would definately add another person into the mix of people that could have possibly harmed him.

Also.. if they do ever read this stuff then I feel badly all around for them. Perhaps some day they will get curious and stop taking everyone around them's word for things and will want to see what they can find about their dad's disappearance. As sad and as hard as that would be to see.. I see now that shouldn't deter us from looking at the whole picture. The same can be true of their mother also. I don't imagine that it would be easy for them to read what is said about either of their parents.. know what I mean?

[RainyNiteNTx]

In answer to the question as to why CF gave the family pets away, I don't think anyone knows why. CF originally asked for a place to live where she could keep her cats and Josie the dog. Next thing we knew, she had given them away. There was a big discussion on here about whether CF should even try to keep the pets and I was a strong advocate for her keeping them for the children. I know that children bond with their pets and to have them lose their dad, have to move, and give up their pets seemed too much. However, that is exactly what happened in their little lives.

If I recall correctly, there was a post by "Seeking Truth" which suggested several scenarios as to why CF gave away Josie the dog. Again, IIRC some suggestions were that the dog barked too much - disturbed the neighbors - CF couldn't take care of him, etc. I don't feel like searching for that post, but I think you get the gist. Bottom line - I don't believe anyone really knows why a specific place was sought out in order to keep the pets, only to give them away. It is the children who suffered the most in all of this IMO.

[worried]

Ok, I have dug and dug and still have not come up with any verifiable proof that NF led a secret life. Is there anything that was verified at all?Does anyone know anything about the new husband? Does anyone know if the Francisco's see their grandchildren?