Laurean/Lauterbach Case

[Tokyo Rose]

I am starting a new thread per Coldwater.

[nuttintodo]

Read the article here: http://www.jdnews.com/articles/laurean_63915___article.html/county_order.html


Direct link to gag order: http://video.onset.freedom.com/jdn/kixdjs-gagorder430090001.pdf


Since we've been waiting almost 16 months, I guess we'll be waiting a lot longer now. :sad:

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

Nuttin,

Thanks for the suggestion and I did do that.

Thanks for the links. This gag order really does it. NC just got more secretive than they already are. I wonder what the media thinks of this?
Maybe they will challenge it.

You're right, we will be waiting a lot longer now.

jmo

[sunstar]

NC judge dissolves gag order in Cesar Laurean case

Monday, May 11, 2009

JACKSONVILLE, N.C. — A North Carolina judge has lifted his a gag order in the high-profile case of a 22-year-old Marine accused of killing a pregnant colleague.

The Daily News of Jacksonville reported that Onslow County Superior Court Judge Charles Henry released his decision Monday.

He said the gag ordered he issued last month didn't meet constitutional standards to justify barring lawyers and others involved in the case from talking to the media.

more at: http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/state/nc-judge-dissolves-gag-order-in-cesar-laurean-case-598697.html

[sunstar]

Cesar Laurean arraignment delayed

Published: May 14, 2009

Cesar Laurean’s next court date has been pushed back.

The State and the defense agreed to reschedule the Marine’s arraignment from May 18 to June 8 in Onslow County Superior Court. Laurean is charged with first degree murder for the death of fellow Marine LCpl. Maria Lauterbach, who was pregnant at the time. Prosecutors say Laurean burned her body and burried it in a shallow grave in the backyard of his Onslow County home.

Investigators say Laurean fled to Mexico and was caught by authorities there. He spent nearly a year in a Mexican jail before being extradited back the United States in April. Laurean’s first court appearance was April 20. He was denied bond.

Laurean is expected to plead not guilty at his arraignment.

more at: http://www.wnct.com/nct/news/local/article/cesar_laurean_arraignment_delayed/37320/

[Search4U]

BUMMER - I am on vacation next week and had planned to watch it!.




Cesar Laurean arraignment delayed

Published: May 14, 2009

Cesar Laurean’s next court date has been pushed back.

The State and the defense agreed to reschedule the Marine’s arraignment from May 18 to June 8 in Onslow County Superior Court. Laurean is charged with first degree murder for the death of fellow Marine LCpl. Maria Lauterbach, who was pregnant at the time. Prosecutors say Laurean burned her body and burried it in a shallow grave in the backyard of his Onslow County home.

Investigators say Laurean fled to Mexico and was caught by authorities there. He spent nearly a year in a Mexican jail before being extradited back the United States in April. Laurean’s first court appearance was April 20. He was denied bond.



Laurean is expected to plead not guilty at his arraignment.

more at: http://www.wnct.com/nct/news/local/article/cesar_laurean_arraignment_delayed/37320/

[sunstar]

BUMMER - I am on vacation next week and had planned to watch it!.

Isn't that the way it always goes??!! :wink:

[Kat4Eagles]

Isn't that the way it always goes??!! :wink:

I am sure if this has already been posted or was known?

From WRAL: this afternoon.......

Not Father of the Baby.........

http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/5155972/

[sunstar]

I am sure if this has already been posted or was known?

From WRAL: this afternoon.......

Not Father of the Baby.........

http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/5155972/

No I didn't know ~ thanks so much!

This is very interesting news. :scared:

[AlohaRainbow]

I am sure if this has already been posted or was known?

From WRAL: this afternoon.......

Not Father of the Baby.........

http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/5155972/

it was sort of unofficially mentioned when cesar first returned to the u.s. a few weeks ago, but there was never any real confirmaiton until this article today.

this will really make the case interesting re motive.

[iluvmua]

Why did she accuse him of rape and then later recant her story?
maybe she thought that he was the father.

Could the real father testify at his trial?

[Cardinal]

Why did she accuse him of rape and then later recant her story?
maybe she thought that he was the father.

Could the real father testify at his trial?

Or maybe the rape accusation was to cover the pregnancy. Maybe in the first turmoil of discovering she was pregnant, she panicked and made the rape accusation. Once made, she either had to go through with it or risk serious repercussions from a false accusation.

So, who is Gabriel's father?

[Tokyo Rose]

Here is another link regarding Cesar not being the father.

http://www.jdnews.com/news/marine-64180-laurean-camp.html

[Tokyo Rose]

NC judge dissolves gag order in Cesar Laurean case

Monday, May 11, 2009

JACKSONVILLE, N.C. — A North Carolina judge has lifted his a gag order in the high-profile case of a 22-year-old Marine accused of killing a pregnant colleague.

The Daily News of Jacksonville reported that Onslow County Superior Court Judge Charles Henry released his decision Monday.

He said the gag ordered he issued last month didn't meet constitutional standards to justify barring lawyers and others involved in the case from talking to the media.

more at: http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/state/nc-judge-dissolves-gag-order-in-cesar-laurean-case-598697.html

This is good news for us. :thumbup:

[Tokyo Rose]

it was sort of unofficially mentioned when cesar first returned to the u.s. a few weeks ago, but there was never any real confirmaiton until this article today.

this will really make the case interesting re motive.

This won't change motive if Cesar thought he was the father. It shows he killed her for nothing. Wonder what he is thinking now after finding out he wasn't the father?

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

Why did she accuse him of rape and then later recant her story?
maybe she thought that he was the father.

Could the real father testify at his trial?

IIRC she didn't recant the rape. She recanted the baby being Cesar's after recalculating the dates. I have seen this quoted in the news before this and it has been wrong.

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

Or maybe the rape accusation was to cover the pregnancy. Maybe in the first turmoil of discovering she was pregnant, she panicked and made the rape accusation. Once made, she either had to go through with it or risk serious repercussions from a false accusation.

So, who is Gabriel's father?

IIRC when she made the rape charge she didn't know she was pregnant.

jmo

[sunstar]

This is good news for us. :thumbup:

I agree! And it's not like there's a whole lot of information coming out from the attorneys anyway.

[sunstar]

This won't change motive if Cesar thought he was the father. It shows he killed her for nothing. Wonder what he is thinking now after finding out he wasn't the father?

jmo

I agree, but what's interesting is when he found out. It's something we may never know unless he testifies at his trial. Now that we know he wasn't the baby's father, I wonder if the father is in El Paso. I'm still trying to figure out why she bought the bus ticket to go there. MOO

[baywench]

I agree, but what's interesting is when he found out. It's something we may never know unless he testifies at his trial. Now that we know he wasn't the baby's father, I wonder if the father is in El Paso. I'm still trying to figure out why she bought the bus ticket to go there. MOO


I have to blow the cobwebs outta my brain on this one, but IIRC he did not know at the time she was murdered because they were waiting on the results of the DNA. The white-hot emotional issues involved in this case have always seemed to me to lean toward the theory that this was a crime of passion. Adultery, loss of your career, possible child support for 18 years etc. Each possible motives imo. Laurean is a coward and not too bright obviously. jmo

[sunstar]

I have to blow the cobwebs outta my brain on this one, but IIRC he did not know at the time she was murdered because they were waiting on the results of the DNA. The white-hot emotional issues involved in this case have always seemed to me to lean toward the theory that this was a crime of passion. Adultery, loss of your career, possible child support for 18 years etc. Each possible motives imo. Laurean is a coward and not too bright obviously. jmo

What I'm thinking of as a possible scenario, is Maria had told him he's the baby's father but goes to his house that day and tells him the truth. I do see a crime of passion also, especially if this were what happened. MOO

[baywench]

What I'm thinking of as a possible scenario, is Maria had told him he's the baby's father but goes to his house that day and tells him the truth. I do see a crime of passion also, especially if this were what happened. MOO


I know that saying anything unflattering about Maria since she is the victim is sensitive, however, she was a bit of a strange duck. Normally I would think that she would not have gone by there and told him the truth but who knows? I think it may have even been possible they were still seeing each other now and then. I want to know where she was going to spend the night when she asked if she could leave her car there. I am still on the fence about which one of them killed her, or if they did it together. Maria was throwing around alot of accusations without proof. jmo

[sunstar]

I know that saying anything unflattering about Maria since she is the victim is sensitive, however, she was a bit of a strange duck. Normally I would think that she would not have gone by there and told him the truth but who knows? I think it may have even been possible they were still seeing each other now and then. I want to know where she was going to spend the night when she asked if she could leave her car there. I am still on the fence about which one of them killed her, or if they did it together. Maria was throwing around alot of accusations without proof. jmo

I know what you mean and I'm also trying not to say anything unflatteirng about Maria but there are some things that are already out there like the rape accusation, then recanting it, for example. I can't help but think about the comment Laurean made when he was arrested, I think when asked if he killed her and he said he loved her. There are still just so many unanswered questions that I hope somebody has the answer to. MOO

[baywench]

I know what you mean and I'm also trying not to say anything unflatteirng about Maria but there are some things that are already out there like the rape accusation, then recanting it, for example. I can't help but think about the comment Laurean made when he was arrested, I think when asked if he killed her and he said he loved her. There are still just so many unanswered questions that I hope somebody has the answer to. MOO


I'm wondering how this play out at trial. Will he throw himself on the sword and swear Christinia was clueless? Or will he say that they were in love? That statement has intrigued me for so long. They must have continued to have sex longer they admitted or he would have known absolutely that he was not the father. They would have had no reason to meet the night she left if that were case. Maybe she was getting out of Dodge because she knew for a fact it was not his baby? Why not leave earlier or recant the whole thing? Strange also that Laurean wasn't screaming and denying if he knew for a fact he could not be his. js

[sunstar]

I'm wondering how this play out at trial. Will he throw himself on the sword and swear Christinia was clueless? Or will he say that they were in love? That statement has intrigued me for so long. They must have continued to have sex longer they admitted or he would have known absolutely that he was not the father. They would have had no reason to meet the night she left if that were case. Maybe she was getting out of Dodge because she knew for a fact it was not his baby? Why not leave earlier or recant the whole thing? Strange also that Laurean wasn't screaming and denying if he knew for a fact he could not be his. js

I think this might be one case where the defendant testifies since it seems if he wants to save himself some explanations are necessary. On the other hand though, he'd also have to explain why he said she committed suicide, how her body ended up in his back yard, and why it was burned. :shrug: MOO

[baywench]

I think this might be one case where the defendant testifies since it seems if he wants to save himself some explanations are necessary. On the other hand though, he'd also have to explain why he said she committed suicide, how her body ended up in his back yard, and why it was burned. :shrug: MOO

I agree Sun...I see him as a wimp and a coward. I don't see him standing up to anything in the end. Christinias involvement should come to light. He really isn't very smart so if he tries to lie I think we will be able to see right through it. I hope he will say what the other contact was they had that day.

[sunstar]

I agree Sun...I see him as a wimp and a coward. I don't see him standing up to anything in the end. Christinias involvement should come to light. He really isn't very smart so if he tries to lie I think we will be able to see right through it. I hope he will say what the other contact was they had that day.

Well this definitely isn't a case where the defense can just claim SODDI and not offer some reason why Laurean put her in his back yard even if she had killed herself (which the evidence is inconsistent with anyway). I definitely think the jury will have to know what went on between them during the months they knew each other and the day of her death. MOO

[VC2]

Or maybe the rape accusation was to cover the pregnancy. Maybe in the first turmoil of discovering she was pregnant, she panicked and made the rape accusation. Once made, she either had to go through with it or risk serious repercussions from a false accusation.

So, who is Gabriel's father?

You remember how in the beginning there were a number of stories about her habit of lying? iirc her psychologist uncle said that when she was cornered or in a fix she lied, her mother said she lied and even doubted her on the rape allegation saying she would stand behind her but it had to be the truth. She made up a couple of wild stories in boot camp about her father as well and was sent for counseling bout her lying.

It certainly does not mean that he isn't guilty but i had been strongly and i mean strongly feeling his wife had nothing to do with it. I still feel she had nothing to do with his killing of Maria but now i wonder if she maybe was the killer on her own?

IF the father is in El Paso, and he helped her get a bus ticket etc, especially if she told him she was leaving and not going to testify at anything (iirc that was one of the things said..cant remember if it was confirmed) there was no reason for him to kill her.

What if it was true that they didn't have sex? it sure can't be proven now they did. He would know the paternity test would show he wasn't the dad. Rape? well she had a pretty long history of lying to the point of counselling for it. Her mom or uncle even called her a pathological liar. Any decent lawyer would have told him he was pretty safe.

the only real worry he had is if she was pregnant with his baby. Even then it was a bigger issue with his wife than with a trial, consensual sex explains a baby. Since the accusations of rape and fatherhood were made the issue with his wife was happening anyway.

Someone in that house killed her but i am now wondering WHO.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/16/marine.slaying/index.html

Sat May 16, 2009


Suspect in pregnant Marine's death not father of unborn child

[GentleBreeze]

I am back to wondering what his motive could have been. The rape allegations against him were just too flimsy and filled with inconsistencies and problems for Maria, imo. And if the child wasn't his then that would give him more credibility when Gabriel was born and DNA testing could have been demanded by CL.

Was there really more to the relationship between Maria and Laurean?

Did he believe the child was his for months and then when she told investigators that the Gabriel could not be his it throw him into a fit of rage? Or did he know all along Gabriel wasn't his child?

His words uttered in Mexico when he was arrested left mystery,imo and things that perhaps that haven't been revealed yet.

Quote from CNN article above:
Laurean was 22 when he was arrested in Mexico in April 2008. At the time, a Mexican reporter asked Laurean whether he had killed Lauterbach. The Marine replied, "I loved her."

It is even more of a mystery why she came to his home that day. Why would a woman come to a home of a man that for so many months she said the child she carried belonged to him *thru assault" when she knew the baby wasn't his at all?:confused:

Another sad thing is Gabriel's real father is out there somewhere and he didnt care enough about him to even step up and say he was.:sad:

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I have to blow the cobwebs outta my brain on this one, but IIRC he did not know at the time she was murdered because they were waiting on the results of the DNA. The white-hot emotional issues involved in this case have always seemed to me to lean toward the theory that this was a crime of passion. Adultery, loss of your career, possible child support for 18 years etc. Each possible motives imo. Laurean is a coward and not too bright obviously. jmo

I agree........something sparked this when they both came together that day. I have never seen premeditation in this case. All the other after the crime shows panic and disorganization.

But I am not sure that he thought Gabriel was his child. I think he knew all along......he wasn't. How that plays into all of this will be very interesting to learn.

Even the allegations marked his stellar Marine career and I think that is what was very important to Laurean at the time. Before these allegations his Marine Corps career was very bright and promising. He had already been meritoriously promoted and he knew any black mark would stop all of that in its tracks even if the allegations were never proved.

imo

[Tokyo Rose]

I believe the "relationship" between Maria and Cesar was not consensual.

I believe it occurred in such a way that Cesar actually thought it was. Something like some men actually think "She may have said no, but really wanted it". Cesar is narcissistic and would think that way.

I think this happened more than once, and she reported it because she thought it was a way to get away from him. She didn't want to work in the same area with him anymore.

When she reported the rape she didn't know she was pregnant. Cesar didn't either so he lied to the investigators saying he never had sex with her. Perfect, because it was her word against his. No evidence and no one saw anything. He also knew her so called reputation as a liar.

When she came up pregnant he panicked. If that baby was his, it would be obvious he had lied. His credibility would have gone down hill fast. His career would end. I think everyone assumed the baby was his. The investigators, Cesar, Maria, her family, and everyone else.

As soon as Maria recalculated and realized the baby wasn't Cesar's, she told the investigators, but did not recant the rape.

It really doesn't matter who's baby it was. Cesar killed her because he thought it was his. He killed her for nothing. He was off the hook.

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

IMO Cesar will never talk with the detectives nor will he testify at the trial. That would open the door for the prosecution to rip him apart.

[Tokyo Rose]

I remember RS saying they knew why Maria was gong to El Paso. That will come out in trial, I would think. It could have been to go see the baby's father. Maybe the police already know who he is, and it has been kept quiet. We just don't know.

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

You remember how in the beginning there were a number of stories about her habit of lying? iirc her psychologist uncle said that when she was cornered or in a fix she lied, her mother said she lied and even doubted her on the rape allegation saying she would stand behind her but it had to be the truth. She made up a couple of wild stories in boot camp about her father as well and was sent for counseling bout her lying.

It certainly does not mean that he isn't guilty but i had been strongly and i mean strongly feeling his wife had nothing to do with it. I still feel she had nothing to do with his killing of Maria but now i wonder if she maybe was the killer on her own?

IF the father is in El Paso, and he helped her get a bus ticket etc, especially if she told him she was leaving and not going to testify at anything (iirc that was one of the things said..cant remember if it was confirmed) there was no reason for him to kill her.

What if it was true that they didn't have sex? it sure can't be proven now they did. He would know the paternity test would show he wasn't the dad. Rape? well she had a pretty long history of lying to the point of counselling for it. Her mom or uncle even called her a pathological liar. Any decent lawyer would have told him he was pretty safe.

the only real worry he had is if she was pregnant with his baby. Even then it was a bigger issue with his wife than with a trial, consensual sex explains a baby. Since the accusations of rape and fatherhood were made the issue with his wife was happening anyway.

Someone in that house killed her but i am now wondering WHO.

imo

According to the police and the DA, Christina has been cleared so it wasn't her. That leaves only Cesar, and he is the one sitting in jail awaiting trial, as it should be.

jmo

[FallenAngel♥]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/16/marine.slaying/index.html

Sat May 16, 2009


Suspect in pregnant Marine's death not father of unborn child

I'm still shocked about this.........

[GentleBreeze]

I remember RS saying they knew why Maria was gong to El Paso. That will come out in trial, I would think. It could have been to go see the baby's father. Maybe the police already know who he is, and it has been kept quiet. We just don't know.

jmo

I believe RS said that only two people could answer that question and Maria was dead and at that time Laurean was on the lamb.

I sure want to know why the true biological father of Gabriel never stepped forward to voice his outrage over what had happened to his own son.

I have always sensed there are many things just below the surface we don't know about in this case and exactly what went on and by whom starting even before the rape allegations surfaced.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I'm shocked with the stupidity. Unless he did rape her as she claimed and he automatically assumed it was his for sure.
Hmmm, Wonder who the father was?:confused:

He couldn't have believed that. Maria recanted her story in early November and said the baby wasn't his from the alleged rape. He would have been apprised of all that information from his own attorney. It was Sheriff Brown who said Maria was facing a possible discharge from the Corps. I think the MC had Maria trapped and she knew once Gabriel was born the military Prosecutor would ask for a DNA sample from Laurean anyway and she knew he was not going to be the father. I think all of this was done to protect the identity of the real biological father. And if they have found the father perchance then I wonder how long they had been seeing each other before she got pregnant. Imo, I think he is military and most likely one of higher rank and in their same unit.

Personally I don't think he raped her at all and imo, he knew all along Gabriel wasn't his. He never broke down and admitted it to Christina. He continued to work everyday even though he knew Maria's due date was getting closer. He told Christina all along the child was not his and he said he had no sexual contact with Maria and remember she told one of her friends she needed to get out of a bad situation she had found herself in? I don't think it had anything to do with Laurean but the situation she had found herself in with Gabriel's bio father.

And like Maria's own mother said, when Maria is backed into a corner she will lie to get herself out of it.



imo

[GentleBreeze]

IMO Cesar will never talk with the detectives nor will he testify at the trial. That would open the door for the prosecution to rip him apart.

I am not so sure it would, Rosie.

He has already admitted that he buried Maria in his backyard and tried to cover it up.

He has no criminal record whatsoever before this.

Of course they will hammer him that he fled to Mexico but then he can say he did so because he would knew he would be blamed for Maria's death.

So I don't think he has much to lose at all by testifying. Only he knows what really happened.

The jury can weigh his truthfulness and credibility.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

I believe the "relationship" between Maria and Cesar was not consensual.

I believe it occurred in such a way that Cesar actually thought it was. Something like some men actually think "She may have said no, but really wanted it". Cesar is narcissistic and would think that way.

I think this happened more than once, and she reported it because she thought it was a way to get away from him. She didn't want to work in the same area with him anymore.

When she reported the rape she didn't know she was pregnant. Cesar didn't either so he lied to the investigators saying he never had sex with her. Perfect, because it was her word against his. No evidence and no one saw anything. He also knew her so called reputation as a liar.

When she came up pregnant he panicked. If that baby was his, it would be obvious he had lied. His credibility would have gone down hill fast. His career would end. I think everyone assumed the baby was his. The investigators, Cesar, Maria, her family, and everyone else.

As soon as Maria recalculated and realized the baby wasn't Cesar's, she told the investigators, but did not recant the rape.

It really doesn't matter who's baby it was. Cesar killed her because he thought it was his. He killed her for nothing. He was off the hook.

jmo

He had known she was pregnant for 8 months and there is nothing showing that he did one thing in all that time nor were they ever together at the same workplace or elsewhere as far as we know except for the day the murders happened.

It had been over a month since she had recanted her story about Gabriel.

His lawyer had to tell Laurean that the rape allegation made by Maria were plagued with problems for her. She could prove none of it and she was known to lie frequently so her credibility was already very iffy. And there may be even more issues known about Maria by the Corps that has not been revealed. Anyone that can make up such an outlandish lie about their own father killing their brother can make up another outlandish tale. So I don't think Lauean was afraid he was going to be convicted with rape. I think once the military prosecutor did the testing on Gabriel once he was born they would have started papers to have Maria discharged.

So it makes no sense, just like it makes no sense why she would come to his home knowing he was alone, imo. But both of them had been under extreme stress for months due to this ongoing saga and tempers can flare when emotions have been pent up for months on end.

I think this was a spontaneous combustion where fuel was added to already simmering anger and frustrations and this was the result that day.

imo

[sunstar]

I am not so sure it would, Rosie.

He has already admitted that he buried Maria in his backyard and tried to cover it up.

He has no criminal record whatsoever before this.

Of course they will hammer him that he fled to Mexico but then he can say he did so because he would knew he would be blamed for Maria's death.

So I don't think he has much to lose at all by testifying. Only he knows what really happened.

The jury can weigh his truthfulness and credibility.

imoo

I agree, GB. I also believe only he can explain his version of events that day and try to save himself from being convicted for her murder. MOO

[Tokyo Rose]

I believe RS said that only two people could answer that question and Maria was dead and at that time Laurean was on the lamb.

I sure want to know why the true biological father of Gabriel never stepped forward to voice his outrage over what had happened to his own son.

I have always sensed there are many things just below the surface we don't know about in this case and exactly what went on and by whom starting even before the rape allegations surfaced.

imo

No, IIRC in those questions that were sent to RS and answered by him twice from this board, that question came up and he said they know why she was going to El Paso. That is all he would say.

Many questions won't be answered until trial unfortunately.

I would like to see those questions and answers again. I wonder if Nuttin kept copies?

[Tokyo Rose]

I am not so sure it would, Rosie.

He has already admitted that he buried Maria in his backyard and tried to cover it up.

He has no criminal record whatsoever before this.

Of course they will hammer him that he fled to Mexico but then he can say he did so because he would knew he would be blamed for Maria's death.

So I don't think he has much to lose at all by testifying. Only he knows what really happened.

The jury can weigh his truthfulness and credibility.

imoo

If he is foolish enough to testify, which I am sure will be against his attorney's advice, it will open the door for the prosecution to cross examine him. They will rip him apart, and he will come out looking as guilty as he is. This is why most defendants don't testify, especially in murder cases.

I hope he does testify and I'm sure the prosecution would look at it as a gift from heaven.

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

He had known she was pregnant for 8 months and there is nothing showing that he did one thing in all that time nor were they ever together at the same workplace or elsewhere as far as we know except for the day the murders happened.

It had been over a month since she had recanted her story about Gabriel.

His lawyer had to tell Laurean that the rape allegation made by Maria were plagued with problems for her. She could prove none of it and she was known to lie frequently so her credibility was already very iffy. And there may be even more issues known about Maria by the Corps that has not been revealed. Anyone that can make up such an outlandish lie about their own father killing their brother can make up another outlandish tale. So I don't think Lauean was afraid he was going to be convicted with rape. I think once the military prosecutor did the testing on Gabriel once he was born they would have started papers to have Maria discharged.

So it makes no sense, just like it makes no sense why she would come to his home knowing he was alone, imo. But both of them had been under extreme stress for months due to this ongoing saga and tempers can flare when emotions have been pent up for months on end.

I think this was a spontaneous combustion where fuel was added to already simmering anger and frustrations and this was the result that day.

imo

There was no DNA results. The military was waiting for the birth. Cesar thought the baby was his. How do I know that? He killed her to get rid of the evidence.

Even if he knew Maria recanted the baby being his, which we don't know for sure he did, he knew this was only by her calculations. The Marines still planned a DNA test. He was running scared. Scared enough to beat her head with a crowbar, dig a pit, throw her in, and barbecue over her body.

Even if he was a stellar Marine, he had a dark side. A dark side which may never have been seen. A much darker side than a few lies which the Marines must not have seen as so horrendous since they kept her.

There is another possible motive if that's not enough. Cesar was looking at porno involving pregnant women that afternoon. I think he knew she was coming over. Maybe he wanted sex and this time she fought back and didn't just keep saying no. She was naked from the waist down when found and the baby was not in the birth canal according to the autopsy. It was in her womb area.

Does anyone really think he will sit on the witness stand and try to explain all this to a jury?

He could try to throw Christina under the bus, but she has been cleared by the police and her alibi checked out. How do I know that?
Because she is not sitting in jail waiting to go on trial for 1st Degree Murder. He is, as he should be.:sad:

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

I agree, GB. I also believe only he can explain his version of events that day and try to save himself from being convicted for her murder. MOO

He could try, but after the state presents their case with the physical evidence, photos, witnesses, ect. I don't think the jury will believe him much as he tries to explain all that away, but that's just me.

jmo

[GentleBreeze]

There was no DNA results. The military was waiting for the birth. Cesar thought the baby was his. How do I know that? He killed her to get rid of the evidence.

Even if he knew Maria recanted the baby being his, which we don't know for sure he did, he knew this was only by her calculations. The Marines still planned a DNA test. He was running scared. Scared enough to beat her head with a crowbar, dig a pit, throw her in, and barbecue over her body.

Even if he was a stellar Marine, he had a dark side. A dark side which may never have been seen. A much darker side than a few lies which the Marines must not have seen as so horrendous since they kept her.

There is another possible motive if that's not enough. Cesar was looking at porno involving pregnant women that afternoon. I think he knew she was coming over. Maybe he wanted sex and this time she fought back and didn't just keep saying no. She was naked from the waist down when found and the baby was not in the birth canal according to the autopsy. It was in her womb area.

Does anyone really think he will sit on the witness stand and try to explain all this to a jury?

He could try to throw Christina under the bus, but she has been cleared by the police and her alibi checked out. How do I know that?
Because she is not sitting in jail waiting to go on trial for 1st Degree Murder. He is, as he should be.:sad:

jmo

I don't think he would ever have intentions of throwing Christina under the bus nor she him.

I saw a defense attorney on IS the other day and they were discussing with Jack Ford that more and more defendants are testifying in court than ever before. I still see no reason for him not to especially if he tells what he knows then his story will not change no matter who asks the questions.

I am not sure he had a dark side before this happened. Even Maria told her mother that he was well like and very popular. He seemed like a nice person before this happened. I think this happened because when Maria came there to his home something was said that ignited extreme passion and anger erupted like hot lava.

I don't see any evidence that Cesar thought Gabriel was ever his, in fact I have wondered if this was not the catalyst that caused this to happen when she came face to face with him in his own home. The only thing we know he has said is that he had no sexual contact with Maria. Nothing has been shown to refute that.

She was coming over??? WHY?:confused: Why would she come over to a man's home she had accused of raping her? A man that she had gotten a MRO on?:confused:

Yes, he did panic but I don't think he tried to burn her up. Imo he was trying to disguise the freshly dug shallow grave that was in the middle of his backyard and the best way to do that is put a fire pit over it.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

No, IIRC in those questions that were sent to RS and answered by him twice from this board, that question came up and he said they know why she was going to El Paso. That is all he would say.

Many questions won't be answered until trial unfortunately.

I would like to see those questions and answers again. I wonder if Nuttin kept copies?

RS said that why El Paso was picked could only be answered by Maria or Laurean.

I am sure Nuttin remembers. This was not the ones she emailed to RS but those asked and answered on another site, I believe.

imo

[Tokyo Rose]

RS said that why El Paso was picked could only be answered by Maria or Laurean.

I am sure Nuttin remembers. This was not the ones she emailed to RS but those asked and answered on another site, I believe.

imo

Why Cesar? Why would he have anything to say about where Maria was going or why she was leaving? That certainly wouldn't have been his decision.:shrug:

Oh well, you remember something and I remember something. It has been some time back and this wasn't the most important fact to remember anyway.

[Tokyo Rose]

I don't think he would ever have intentions of throwing Christina under the bus nor she him.

I saw a defense attorney on IS the other day and they were discussing with Jack Ford that more and more defendants are testifying in court than ever before. I still see no reason for him not to especially if he tells what he knows then his story will not change no matter who asks the questions.

I am not sure he had a dark side before this happened. Even Maria told her mother that he was well like and very popular. He seemed like a nice person before this happened. I think this happened because when Maria came there to his home something was said that ignited extreme passion and anger erupted like hot lava.

I don't see any evidence that Cesar thought Gabriel was ever his, in fact I have wondered if this was not the catalyst that caused this to happen when she came face to face with him in his own home. The only thing we know he has said is that he had no sexual contact with Maria. Nothing has been shown to refute that.

She was coming over??? WHY?:confused: Why would she come over to a man's home she had accused of raping her? A man that she had gotten a MRO on?:confused:

Yes, he did panic but I don't think he tried to burn her up. Imo he was trying to disguise the freshly dug shallow grave that was in the middle of his backyard and the best way to do that is put a fire pit over it.

imo

Yes, she was coming over and she did. Why, I don't know. There was contact twice that day and once was when he killed her. Someone probably called someone and set up a time. I sure don't think she knew he was working himself up by looking at porno of pregnant women before she arrived. Quite a coinky dinky I'd say if he didn't know she was coming. She did have a very large 8 month pregnant belly.

After what Cesar did to her, I wouldn't put much past him, would you?:shrug:

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

Gentle Breeze writes:

"I saw a defense attorney on IS the other day and they were discussing with Jack Ford that more and more defendants are testifying in court than ever before. I still see no reason for him not to especially if he tells what he knows then his story will not change no matter who asks the questions."


I hope he does testify and I"m sure the prosecution does also. What he knows is he killed her. If he tells what he knows it will be a confession on the stand. :thumbsup:

jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Yes, she was coming over and she did. Why, I don't know. There was contact twice that day and once was when he killed her. Someone probably called someone and set up a time. I sure don't think she knew he was working himself up by looking at porno of pregnant women before she arrived. Quite a coinky dinky I'd say if he didn't know she was coming. She did have a very large 8 month pregnant belly.

After what Cesar did to her, I wouldn't put much past him, would you?:shrug:

jmo

Why would she care what he was doing as long as he was doing it away from her? Why come at all to his home knowing he would be there alone?

Do you have a link that he was looking at porn of pregnant women? I haven't seen LE divulge that information but I could have missed it though. I had gone onto other cases until he was returned from Mexico.

Thanks in advance, Rosie.

[Tokyo Rose]

http://www.jdnews.com/news/marine-61112-lauterbach-laurean.html


A computer in the Laurean home accessed pornographic Web sites, including some featuring pregnant women, the afternoon of Dec. 14, 2007, according to a source close to the investigation.

[Hannibal]

that's the only logical explanation...

:cursing:

[GentleBreeze]

I feel he thought the child was his...

that's the only logical explanation...

:cursing:

And what if he knew all along the child was not his?

Then what?

[Tokyo Rose]

Good morning Gentle,

I believe if Maria had any idea Cesar was looking at pregnant women porn prior to her arrival, she would have changed her mind about going to his house. I would think that would have scared her especially if it were a planned meeting between the two of them which I think it was.

I still think one contacted the other for the meeting and it was arranged. I also think Maria told Cesar the baby wasn't his, but Cesar didn't believe her and wasn't about to take a chance on her say so only. There was still a military DNA test hanging over his head when the baby was born.

jmo

[bkwits]

And what if he knew all along the child was not his?

Then what?


Then why kill her? :confused:

[penguin01]

Then why kill her? :confused: Why not? Or did she decide NOT to ruin his career after all? She said he raped her. I thought she planned to proceed with that claim. I still think his wife might be involved. I know LE says she is not - but they are sneaky that way.

[bkwits]

Why not? Or did she decide NOT to ruin his career after all? She said he raped her. I thought she planned to proceed with that claim. I still think his wife might be involved. I know LE says she is not - but they are sneaky that way.

I don't think Maria intentionally ruined his military career. He did that himself, as well as ruining his life his family's life, and taking Maria and Gabriel's life.


Maria recanted the rape allegation to the military. If Cesar knew the baby was not his, as GB suggested as a possibility, then there would be no evidence of sexual contact between as far as I know. Ergo, no rape proven, no adultery, no child support. So if he did know all along the child wasn't his, why kill Maria?


IMO



So

[Tokyo Rose]

Good morning Gentle,

I think I know now what LE did say about the trip to El Paso. Actually it makes us both right.

LE said they are pretty sure they know why Maria was going to go to El Paso, but the answer for sure could only come from Maria or Cesar.

I'm still trying to find out for sure if this is what was said for sure.

[Tokyo Rose]

Why not? Or did she decide NOT to ruin his career after all? She said he raped her. I thought she planned to proceed with that claim. I still think his wife might be involved. I know LE says she is not - but they are sneaky that way.

LOL, the police are sneaky that way? Come on Pen, surely this is your sense of humor coming out.

Cesar didn't do Maria's career any good either. Especially because I believe she was raped by him. She didn't recant the rape, only that the baby wasn't his and that came about after a sonogram and her recalculations. She wasn't trying to hide that fact either. She told the investigators at the next appointment after that sonogram.

[baywench]

LOL, the police are sneaky that way? Come on Pen, surely this is your sense of humor coming out.

Cesar didn't do Maria's career any good either. Especially because I believe she was raped by him. She didn't recant the rape, only that the baby wasn't his and that came about after a sonogram and her recalculations. She wasn't trying to hide that fact either. She told the investigators at the next appointment after that sonogram.

I agree with Pen. LE is famous for saying people are not persons of interest and then WHAM arresting them. They needed Christina when Lauren was on the run. Lauren thought he was the father imo.

[Tokyo Rose]

I agree with Pen. LE is famous for saying people are not persons of interest and then WHAM arresting them. They needed Christina when Lauren was on the run. Lauren thought he was the father imo.

That all came about after the Atlanta bombing fiasco at the Olympics. Now the police will not use subject and keep things close to their chest so they won't get sued. It's not sneaky, just necessary with the public looking for any reason to sue. That was a lesson hard learned by all police departments.

jmo

[baywench]

That all came about after the Atlanta bombing fiasco at the Olympics. Now the police will not use subject and keep things close to their chest so they won't get sued. It's not sneaky, just necessary with the public looking for any reason to sue. That was a lesson hard learned by all police departments.

jmo


I never thought about it but you are absolutely right! Hey, we agreed on something! jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

I never thought about it but you are absolutely right! Hey, we agreed on something! jmo

Yes we do which ain't half bad:thumbsup:

[bkwits]

I am confused. :confused: Do some posters disbelieve that Cesar killed Maria?

Or do some think Maria brought it on herself by her actions?:confused:

[baywench]

I am confused. :confused: Do some posters disbelieve that Cesar killed Maria?

Or do some think Maria brought it on herself by her actions?:confused:


Speaking for myself, I do not think there are actions that would merit being killed. I think Cesar killed her. I think Maria's actions were conducive to producing a very volatile situation. This very volatile situation was taken to the next level by Cesar. Maria did not deserve this. Her behavior was irresponsible however and she should never have put herself in a position of being alone with him again. (If that is indeed what happened). jmo

[bkwits]

Speaking for myself, I do not think there are actions that would merit being killed. I think Cesar killed her. I think Maria's actions were conducive to producing a very volatile situation. This very volatile situation was taken to the next level by Cesar. Maria did not deserve this. Her behavior was irresponsible however and she should never have put herself in a position of being alone with him again. (If that is indeed what happened). jmo

Assuming Cesar plunged the knife into Maria ----
Whatever feelings were or weren't between Cesar and Maria, does not mitigate his guilt. He killed a vulmerable, helpless very preganant young woman and an almost full term fetus. The crime is his, the guilt is his. Maria and Gabriel are the victims. Period.

I am curious as why Maria was at his house, but it doesn't matter in the end. IMO, he murdered her and her child. Coldly and callously threw them in a pit in his yard, and had built a bonfire over their bodies while he enterained his friends.

He is a cold, cold blooded murderer. IMO.

[GentleBreeze]

Assuming Cesar plunged the knife into Maria ----
Whatever feelings were or weren't between Cesar and Maria, does not mitigate his guilt. He killed a vulnerable, helpless very pregnant young woman and an almost full term fetus. The crime is his, the guilt is his. Maria and Gabriel are the victims. Period.

I am curious as why Maria was at his house, but it doesn't matter in the end. IMO, he murdered her and her child. Coldly and callously threw them in a pit in his yard, and had built a bonfire over their bodies while he enterained his friends.

He is a cold, cold blooded murderer. IMO.

I think how this case came to be will be very relevant most especially the reason why Maria came to the home of the man she had previously accused of rape. I think that any any jury will want to know that answer.

No story starts and ends with just the murder itself and much of the history unfolds for the jury by both sides.

By what the jurors believe that happened can change this case drastically from First Degree to a lessor charge of 2nd Degree and McNeil, who is known as a highly competent defense attorney knows that all too well.

I do believe he killed her but I do not think it was premeditated. If he had put any aforethought into his plan he surely wouldn't have buried Maria in his own backyard nor would he have chosen his own home as the crime scene. There is 156,000 acres on the base alone, much of it remote and isolated areas where he could have lured her to meet him because it seems Maria did not fear him since she did go to his home knowing he was alone.

I believe this was a crime of passion murder and more Second degree, in the heat of the moment, than First Degree. Nothing shows planning. The aftermath shows panic, immaturity and disorganization.

Maria and Gabriel certainly are the victims here without a doubt but a perfect storm doesn't come together without certain things forming and happening to put the tragic events in place.

In the trial imo, we will learn much about what really transpired in the months before Maria and Gabriel died. It will all be relevant so that the jury can understand what happened and why.

imo

[Tokyo Rose]

http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/Statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0014

SUBCHAPTER III. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PERSON.

Article 6.

Homicide.

§ 14‑17. Murder in the first and second degree defined; punishment.

A murder which shall be perpetrated by means of a nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon of mass destruction as defined in G.S. 14‑288.21, poison, lying in wait, imprisonment, starving, torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or which shall be committed in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of any arson, rape or a sex offense, robbery, kidnapping, burglary, or other felony committed or attempted with the use of a deadly weapon shall be deemed to be murder in the first degree, a Class A felony, and any person who commits such murder shall be punished with death or imprisonment in the State's prison for life without parole as the court shall determine pursuant to G.S. 15A‑2000, except that any such person who was under 18 years of age at the time of the murder shall be punished with imprisonment in the State's prison for life without parole. All other kinds of murder, including that which shall be proximately caused by the unlawful distribution of opium or any synthetic or natural salt, compound, derivative, or preparation of opium, or cocaine or other substance described in G.S. 90‑90(1)d., or methamphetamine, when the ingestion of such substance causes the death of the user, shall be deemed murder in the second degree, and any person who commits such murder shall be punished as a Class B2 felon. (1893, cc. 85, 281; Rev., s. 3631; C.S., s. 4200; 1949, c. 299, s. 1; 1973, c. 1201, s. 1; 1977, c. 406, s. 1; 1979, c. 682, s. 6; 1979, c. 760, s. 5; 1979, 2nd Sess., c. 1251, ss. 1, 2; c. 1316, s. 47; 1981, c. 63, s. 1; c. 179, s. 14; c. 662, s. 1; 1987, c. 693; 1989, c. 694; 1993, c. 539, s. 112; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 21, s. 1; c. 22, s. 4; c. 24, s. 14(c); 2001‑470, s. 2; 2004‑178, s. 1; 2007‑81, s. 1.)


Robbery from her dead body makes this 1st degree. Premeditation is not the only element that makes murder 1st degree. There may be other elements that apply also.

I think most understand premeditation can be formed in seconds anyway.

[Tokyo Rose]

http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/Statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0014

SUBCHAPTER III. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PERSON.

Article 6.

Homicide.

§ 14‑17. Murder in the first and second degree defined; punishment.

A murder which shall be perpetrated by means of a nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon of mass destruction as defined in G.S. 14‑288.21, poison, lying in wait, imprisonment, starving, torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or which shall be committed in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of any arson, rape or a sex offense, robbery, kidnapping, burglary, or other felony committed or attempted with the use of a deadly weapon shall be deemed to be murder in the first degree, a Class A felony, and any person who commits such murder shall be punished with death or imprisonment in the State's prison for life without parole as the court shall determine pursuant to G.S. 15A‑2000, except that any such person who was under 18 years of age at the time of the murder shall be punished with imprisonment in the State's prison for life without parole. All other kinds of murder, including that which shall be proximately caused by the unlawful distribution of opium or any synthetic or natural salt, compound, derivative, or preparation of opium, or cocaine or other substance described in G.S. 90‑90(1)d., or methamphetamine, when the ingestion of such substance causes the death of the user, shall be deemed murder in the second degree, and any person who commits such murder shall be punished as a Class B2 felon. (1893, cc. 85, 281; Rev., s. 3631; C.S., s. 4200; 1949, c. 299, s. 1; 1973, c. 1201, s. 1; 1977, c. 406, s. 1; 1979, c. 682, s. 6; 1979, c. 760, s. 5; 1979, 2nd Sess., c. 1251, ss. 1, 2; c. 1316, s. 47; 1981, c. 63, s. 1; c. 179, s. 14; c. 662, s. 1; 1987, c. 693; 1989, c. 694; 1993, c. 539, s. 112; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 21, s. 1; c. 22, s. 4; c. 24, s. 14(c); 2001‑470, s. 2; 2004‑178, s. 1; 2007‑81, s. 1.)


Robbery from her dead body makes this 1st degree. Premeditation is not the only element that makes murder 1st degree. There may be other elements that apply also.

I think most understand premeditation can be formed in seconds.
__________________

[baywench]

from the previous thread I wanted answer BKWITS.

We are in agreement, I did not express it well.

I believe Cesar (and maybe Christinia or both) killed Maria
I do not believe it was premediated.
I believe that Maria lied.
I believe that Christina had more motive than Cesar if she believed he did not have sex with Maria. She would lose her livelyhood, so would he, they would be outcasts, they would lose their possessions, their house, everything from what (to her) was a false charge.
Cesar knew he had sex with Maria or he wouldn't have killed her.
I believe Cesar and Maria were in love with each other at some point.
I believe Maria lied when she realized Cesar did not love her and would not leave his marriage and child.
I do not believe Cesar raped Maria.
I believe they were having sex and at some point it turned ugly between them. SInce Maria was the one that filed charges I believe that Cesar ended the relationship which made Maria mad.
I believe that nothing, nothing, nothing was done by Maria that would have been deserving of murder. Nothing. However, Maria was a liar, that is fact substantiated by her friends and family and the military. Lies hurt people and cause them to be angered. jmo

[bkwits]

from the previous thread I wanted answer BKWITS.

We are in agreement, I did not express it well.

I believe Cesar (and maybe Christinia or both) killed Maria
I do not believe it was premediated.
I believe that Maria lied.
I believe that Christina had more motive than Cesar if she believed he did not have sex with Maria. She would lose her livelyhood, so would he, they would be outcasts, they would lose their possessions, their house, everything from what (to her) was a false charge.
Cesar knew he had sex with Maria or he wouldn't have killed her.
I believe Cesar and Maria were in love with each other at some point.
I believe Maria lied when she realized Cesar did not love her and would not leave his marriage and child.
I do not believe Cesar raped Maria.
I believe they were having sex and at some point it turned ugly between them. SInce Maria was the one that filed charges I believe that Cesar ended the relationship which made Maria mad.
I believe that nothing, nothing, nothing was done by Maria that would have been deserving of murder. Nothing. However, Maria was a liar, that is fact substantiated by her friends and family and the military. Lies hurt people and cause them to be angered. jmo


Thank you for sharing your opinions. I cannot see anything that would support those conclusions. There are many scenarios that one could imagine.

JMO

[bkwits]

http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/Statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0014

SUBCHAPTER III. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PERSON.

Article 6.

Homicide.

§ 14‑17. Murder in the first and second degree defined; punishment.

A murder which shall be perpetrated by means of a nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon of mass destruction as defined in G.S. 14‑288.21, poison, lying in wait, imprisonment, starving, torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or which shall be committed in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of any arson, rape or a sex offense, robbery, kidnapping, burglary, or other felony committed or attempted with the use of a deadly weapon shall be deemed to be murder in the first degree, a Class A felony, and any person who commits such murder shall be punished with death or imprisonment in the State's prison for life without parole as the court shall determine pursuant to G.S. 15A‑2000, except that any such person who was under 18 years of age at the time of the murder shall be punished with imprisonment in the State's prison for life without parole. All other kinds of murder, including that which shall be proximately caused by the unlawful distribution of opium or any synthetic or natural salt, compound, derivative, or preparation of opium, or cocaine or other substance described in G.S. 90‑90(1)d., or methamphetamine, when the ingestion of such substance causes the death of the user, shall be deemed murder in the second degree, and any person who commits such murder shall be punished as a Class B2 felon. (1893, cc. 85, 281; Rev., s. 3631; C.S., s. 4200; 1949, c. 299, s. 1; 1973, c. 1201, s. 1; 1977, c. 406, s. 1; 1979, c. 682, s. 6; 1979, c. 760, s. 5; 1979, 2nd Sess., c. 1251, ss. 1, 2; c. 1316, s. 47; 1981, c. 63, s. 1; c. 179, s. 14; c. 662, s. 1; 1987, c. 693; 1989, c. 694; 1993, c. 539, s. 112; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 21, s. 1; c. 22, s. 4; c. 24, s. 14(c); 2001‑470, s. 2; 2004‑178, s. 1; 2007‑81, s. 1.)


Robbery from her dead body makes this 1st degree. Premeditation is not the only element that makes murder 1st degree. There may be other elements that apply also.

I think most understand premeditation can be formed in seconds.
__________________

Exactly right. I think he will be tried for 1st degree murder. IMO

[Tokyo Rose]

Bay,

Christina was cleared of any involvement by the police and DA. I think we all know that by now. It is a fact.

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

Gentle Breeze wrote in part on previous thread:

In the trial imo, we will learn much about what really transpired in the months before Maria and Gabriel died. It will all be relevant so that the jury can understand what happened and why.
________________________________________________


I believe the defense will have to be very, very careful how they speak about Maria at trial. Alienating the jury is something I would think they would want to avoid.

We must remember here, Maria is the victim and the case being tried is a murder case and not that rape case.

The judge will decide what, if anything, will be brought into the trial and my guess is he will limit that greatly.

That case goes to motive for Cesar to want to kill her anyway. Not good for the defense. They may not think trying to trash Maria is worth it because it is not a good defense for Cesar anyway.

jmo

[baywench]

Bay,

Christina was cleared of any involvement by the police and DA. I think we all know that by now. It is a fact.

jmo

TR - she is cleared for now. She is cleared for what they knew at the time. She maybe charged at a future date, maybe not. I just find it very hard to believe that with everything that happened in her house she didn't notice. There is still more to come out in this case and we all know that also. jmo

[baywench]

Thank you for sharing your opinions. I cannot see anything that would support those conclusions. There are many scenarios that one could imagine.

JMO

I know everyone has different opinions. I was merely trying to let you know that I don't believe there is any reason to kill another human being under any circumstances and that in that respect, I agree with you wholeheartedly. My brain and my fingers are really not in sync today so I suppose I should stop posting until they are! :crying: jmo

[baywench]

Gentle Breeze wrote in part on previous thread:

In the trial imo, we will learn much about what really transpired in the months before Maria and Gabriel died. It will all be relevant so that the jury can understand what happened and why.
________________________________________________


I believe the defense will have to be very, very careful how they speak about Maria at trial. Alienating the jury is something I would think they would want to avoid.

We must remember here, Maria is the victim and the case being tried is a murder case and not that rape case.

The judge will decide what, if anything, will be brought into the trial and my guess is he will limit that greatly.

That case goes to motive for Cesar to want to kill her anyway. Not good for the defense. They may not think trying to trash Maria is worth it because it is not a good defense for Cesar anyway.

jmo


Once again, you are right. It is a murder case. jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

I know everyone has different opinions. I was merely trying to let you know that I don't believe there is any reason to kill another human being under any circumstances and that in that respect, I agree with you wholeheartedly. My brain and my fingers are really not in sync today so I suppose I should stop posting until they are! :crying: jmo

Well surprise, we are in agreement again.:thumbup:

[CANDYKISSES]

TR - she is cleared for now. She is cleared for what they knew at the time. She maybe charged at a future date, maybe not. I just find it very hard to believe that with everything that happened in her house she didn't notice. There is still more to come out in this case and we all know that also. jmo

Add to that the fact she was communicating with Cesar all along IIRC.

I am eager to find out what really went on during that time as well as the time between accusation and death, who she may have been involved with and where everyone was on that fateful day. JMO. :huh:

I think there is still much to learn from this one Bay and with Sutherland being gone by the time trial hits.....oh well....I hope everything is in order. I don't want to see anyone guilty of murder walk away from this tragedy. How could any woman still want a relationship with a man who SHE BELIEVED committed such a heinous act? Only one reason coming to mind here. JMO again. :sad:

[Tokyo Rose]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/07/murdered.marine/index.html

During a press briefing after Lauterbach's body was found, the Marines described her as a "solid Marine" and the fugitive Laurean as a "stellar Marine." Turner called the latter statement "really unexplainable."

"I don't know how you can be a stellar Marine and have another Marine buried in your backyard," he said. "And when that statement was made, those Marines already knew of the tragedy that had befallen Maria."

At this point, the Marines should have skipped describing either Marine as solid or stellar. It was totally uncalled for at the time. Not only that, it was disrespectful for Maria. I believe this was the mind set with which the Marines saw the rape charges from the beginning. Cesar was stellar and therefore had to be the one telling the truth.

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

Add to that the fact she was communicating with Cesar all along IIRC.

I am eager to find out what really went on during that time as well as the time between accusation and death, who she may have been involved with and where everyone was on that fateful day. JMO. :huh:

I think there is still much to learn from this one Bay and with Sutherland being gone by the time trial hits.....oh well....I hope everything is in order. I don't want to see anyone guilty of murder walk away from this tragedy. How could any woman still want a relationship with a man who SHE BELIEVED committed such a heinous act? Only one reason coming to mind here. JMO again. :sad:

Again, the police and the DA have cleared Christina of any involvement and remain committed to that decision. This is based on their investigation. :tonguewag:

jmo

[penguin01]

TR - she is cleared for now. She is cleared for what they knew at the time. She maybe charged at a future date, maybe not. I just find it very hard to believe that with everything that happened in her house she didn't notice. There is still more to come out in this case and we all know that also. jmo

I agree. I'm always surprised when posters say she is cleared and seem to think that is the end of that. I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket. THings tend to change, don't they?
I think they may have cleared her to see what they could get out of her about her husband. Didn't work. She had a great deal to lose in all this. There is SO much more to come and I would be surprised if she remains cleared.

[SavannahStar]

Again, the police and the DA have cleared Christina of any involvement and remain committed to that decision. This is based on their investigation. :tonguewag:

jmo

I'm with you on this, TR, as I always have been in previous discussions, way back when.

Have a good weekend! :smile:

[Tokyo Rose]

I agree. I'm always surprised when posters say she is cleared and seem to think that is the end of that. I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket. THings tend to change, don't they?
I think they may have cleared her to see what they could get out of her about her husband. Didn't work. She had a great deal to lose in all this. There is SO much more to come and I would be surprised if she remains cleared.

If she were going to be charged for anything, she would have been charged by now. Again, she has been cleared. I really don't know what else the police could have done other than to say she is cleared in a press conference on national TV. The police don't need anything out of her.

So if it didn't work, as you say, why hasn't she been arrested?

[Tokyo Rose]

I'm with you on this, TR, as I always have been in previous discussions, way back when.

Have a good weekend! :smile:

You have a good weekend too.:wink:

[penguin01]

If she were going to be charged for anything, she would have been charged by now. Again, she has been cleared. I really don't know what else the police could have done other than to say she is cleared in a press conference on national TV. The police don't need anything out of her.

So if it didn't work, as you say, why hasn't she been arrested?
I don't know. Why would they need to arrest her right now? She's not going anywhere.
Isn't this case ongoing? Has LE said they are all done with any further investigations? Now they are just twiddling their thumbs waiting for time to go to court?
You may be right, Rose - maybe she will stay in the clear. I'm just sayin' - it ain't over till its over.

[CANDYKISSES]

Again, the police and the DA have cleared Christina of any involvement and remain committed to that decision. This is based on their investigation. :tonguewag:

jmo


I'll wait to see what happens since an investigation will continue based on any new information up until the time of trial IMO. Remember this is NC and they do still have OPEN FILE DISCOVERY IIRC. Surely you remember those insisting Nifong was innocent of any wrongdoing. Well, look at the turn of events there. :thumbup:

I seem to remember their clearance of Christina being based on what was available at the time, and that was prior to Cesar returning. Time will tell. :sneaky:

JMO

[penguin01]

I'll wait to see what happens since an investigation will continue based on any new information up until the time of trial IMO. Remember this is NC and they do still have OPEN FILE DISCOVERY IIRC. Surely you remember those insisting Nifong was innocent of any wrongdoing. Well, look at the turn of events there. :thumbup:

I seem to remember their clearance of Christina being based on what was available at the time, and that was prior to Cesar returning. Time will tell. :sneaky:

JMO
I've been trying to find any current LE statements that indicate they "remain commited" to the idea that Chistina is in the clear. Can't find anything - but I'm not the best googler.

[Tokyo Rose]

I've been trying to find any current LE statements that indicate they "remain commited" to the idea that Chistina is in the clear. Can't find anything - but I'm not the best googler.

What would have changed their minds?:shrug: Try googling any LE statements where they don't remain committed.

[penguin01]

What would have changed their minds?:shrug: LOL they haven't shared that info with me. They haven't even told me (all of us) that they are, in fact, still investigating this case, have they? Perhaps they are all done. Is this a closed case now? I'm picturing the DA twiddling thumbs - just waiting for time to go to court.

[Tokyo Rose]

LOL they haven't shared that info with me. They haven't even told me (all of us) that they are, in fact, still investigating this case, have they? Perhaps they are all done. Is this a closed case now? I'm picturing the DA twiddling thumbs - just waiting for time to go to court.

I don't know if the DA is twiddling his thumbs, but it's for sure the defense isn't.:laugh:

[baywench]

Well surprise, we are in agreement again.:thumbup:


People are going to start talking about us. :laugh:

[Tokyo Rose]

People are going to start talking about us. :laugh:


I'll never tell them anything, even if they water board me.:scared:

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/07/murdered.marine/index.html

During a press briefing after Lauterbach's body was found, the Marines described her as a "solid Marine" and the fugitive Laurean as a "stellar Marine." Turner called the latter statement "really unexplainable."

"I don't know how you can be a stellar Marine and have another Marine buried in your backyard," he said. "And when that statement was made, those Marines already knew of the tragedy that had befallen Maria."

At this point, the Marines should have skipped describing either Marine as solid or stellar. It was totally uncalled for at the time. Not only that, it was disrespectful for Maria. I believe this was the mind set with which the Marines saw the rape charges from the beginning. Cesar was stellar and therefore had to be the one telling the truth.

jmo

I think they did the honest and right thing. They were not talking about them on an individual personal basis but how both were known to the Corps and how they fulfilled their duties and expectations as a Marine.

I do believe that all the records they had on CL showed he was a stellar Marine. He had many accomplishments, awards and a meritorious promotion and I believe if this had not happened he would have been given another meritorious promotion up to the rank of Sgt.

I do agree that they may have thought Cesar more trustworthy. Maria had a very bad start on her credibility shortly after she finished boot camp. The military doesn't forget about such things. We can all bet it is still in Maria's personnel folder.

imo

[sunstar]

I don't know. Why would they need to arrest her right now? She's not going anywhere.
Isn't this case ongoing? Has LE said they are all done with any further investigations? Now they are just twiddling their thumbs waiting for time to go to court?
You may be right, Rose - maybe she will stay in the clear. I'm just sayin' - it ain't over till its over.

I think in most cases the investigation continues right up to trial. I'm sure they're not just sitting around waiting to be surprised by anything the defense might come up with. MOO

[Tokyo Rose]

I think they did the honest and right thing. They were not talking about them on an individual personal basis but how both were known to the Corps and how they fulfilled their duties and expectations as a Marine.

I do believe that all the records they had on CL showed he was a stellar Marine. He had many accomplishments, awards and a meritorious promotion and I believe if this had not happened he would have been given another meritorious promotion up to the rank of Sgt.

I do agree that they may have thought Cesar more trustworthy. Maria had a very bad start on her credibility shortly after she finished boot camp. The military doesn't forget about such things. We can all bet it is still in Maria's personnel folder.

The case that is going to trial is not about a rape. It is about a murder.

imo

I believe all the records on Cesar shows how much the military couldn't see Cesar for what he was all along. Cesar was not what he appeared to be. Cesar is a black eye and an embarrassment to the Marines. Imagine readng all those records and knowing what he did.

I think when saying Cesar was a stellar Marine, it must have stuck in their throats. To still say he was stellar was a slap to Maria even though she was dead and buried in his back yard.

Maria was still considered a solid Marine, so what happened at the beginning of her career was no longer important to the Marines.

It doesn't matter to Maria, what if anything, is in her personnel folder now and shouldn't matter to anyone else either.

moo

[bkwits]

I believe all the records on Cesar shows how much the military couldn't see Cesar for what he was all along. Cesar was not what he appeared to be. Cesar is a black eye and an embarrassment to the Marines. Imagine readng all those records and knowing what he did.

I think when saying Cesar was a stellar Marine, it must have stuck in their throats. To still say he was stellar was a slap to Maria even though she was dead and buried in his back yard.

Maria was still considered a solid Marine, so what happened at the beginning of her career was no longer important to the Marines.

It doesn't matter to Maria, what if anything, is in her personnel folder now and shouldn't matter to anyone else either.

moo

I agree, Rose, of course Cesar is nothing but a disgrace and embarrassment to the Marine Corps. I just hope he will do the right thing and admit and show remorse for those evil deeds. MOO

[GentleBreeze]

I believe all the records on Cesar shows how much the military couldn't see Cesar for what he was all along. Cesar was not what he appeared to be. Cesar is a black eye and an embarrassment to the Marines. Imagine Reading all those records and knowing what he did.

I think when saying Cesar was a stellar Marine, it must have stuck in their throats. To still say he was stellar was a slap to Maria even though she was dead and buried in his back yard.

Maria was still considered a solid Marine, so what happened at the beginning of her career was no longer important to the Marines.

It doesn't matter to Maria, what if anything, is in her personnel folder now and shouldn't matter to anyone else either.

moo

Hi Rosie!

I don't agree that he fooled the Marine Corps. The Marine Corps is very hard to fool. They are tough as nails and micromanage all Marines. Up until Maria was killed I do believe wholeheartedly that Laurean was an exemplary Marine. His record of achievements shows it. He cant fake those and it is very hard to be a top Marine who gets meritoriously promoted. Even through great adversity of the allegations lodged against him he continued to do his job and never missed work and returning to base once he had returned from a 10 day leave as he was required to do.

There is no evidence that Laurean ever even had an affair the entire time he was married from the age of 18. Not one mention that he ever sexually harassed anyone. Not one mention of acting violent against others. He had no criminal record or discipline problems. If he had he would not have been awarded his good cookie medal. In fact he was said to be easy going and well liked by his fellow Marines.

So whatever happened the day Maria was killed was totally out of character for Laurean, imo which makes me believe it was a spontaneous explosion when he came face to face with Maria.

What is in her history will matter just like what is in Laurean's.

imo

[bkwits]

Hi Rosie!

I don't agree that he fooled the Marine Corps. The Marine Corps is very hard to fool. They are tough as nails and micromanage all Marines. Up until Maria was killed I do believe wholeheartedly that Laurean was an exemplary Marine. His record of achievements shows it. He cant fake those and it is very hard to be a top Marine who gets meritoriously promoted. Even through great adversity of the allegations lodged against him he continued to do his job and never missed work and returning to base once he had returned from a 10 day leave as he was required to do.

There is no evidence that Laurean ever even had an affair the entire time he was married from the age of 18. Not one mention that he ever sexually harassed anyone. Not one mention of acting violent against others. He had no criminal record or discipline problems. If he had he would not have been awarded his good cookie medal. In fact he was said to be easy going and well liked by his fellow Marines.

So whatever happened the day Maria was killed was totally out of character for Laurean, imo which makes me believe it was a spontaneous explosion when he came face to face with Maria.

What is in her history will matter just like what is in Laurean's.

imo

Doesn't appear to me to be a spontaneous explosion. I think that he anticipated the meeting with Lauterbach. Maybe he didn't plan to kill her, but maybe he did. I think that he was probably obsessed with her. There are no excuses for what he did. IMO

As for being a stellar marine. Apparently the Marine Corps. values didn't sink in because when the chips were down and he had to face what he did, he ran like the coward he is. He is no true Marine. IMO

IMO

[GentleBreeze]

Doesn't appear to me to be a spontaneous explosion. I think that he anticipated the meeting with Lauterbach. Maybe he didn't plan to kill her, but maybe he did. I think that he was probably obsessed with her. There are no excuses for what he did. IMO

As for being a stellar marine. Apparently the Marine Corps. values didn't sink in because when the chips were down and he had to face what he did, he ran like the coward he is. He is no true Marine. IMO

IMO

How would he know that Maria would come to his house with him being there all alone? She had said he was her rapist.:confused:

How could he be obsessed with her and why would he be obsessed? There is no evidence that they had even spoken or seen each other since the MPO had been put in place in May?:confused:

I am not talking about what his status is now. The Marine Corps has discharged him due to him being AWOL for over 30 days. They have not decided his innocence or guilt. That will be up to a local jury.

imo

[Tokyo Rose]

How would he know that Maria would come to his house with him being there all alone? She had said he was her rapist.:confused:

How could he be obsessed with her and why would he be obsessed? There is no evidence that they had even spoken or seen each other since the MPO had been put in place in May?:confused:

I am not talking about what his status is now. The Marine Corps has discharged him due to him being AWOL for over 30 days. They have not decided his innocence or guilt. That will be up to a local jury.

imo

Good Morning Gentle,

Two things make me believe he knew she was coming to his house that day.

RS said there were two contacts that day and one was when he killed her. The other I believe was a phone call from one to the other arranging a meeting. Remember, he knew Christina wouldn't be there.

Also his looking at porn on his computer that afternoon, some of which was pregnant women porn. I believe he had plans for Maria.

I also believe Maria let her guard down because she was leaving town and letting him off the hook for the rape charges as well as taking the evidence with her. The baby's DNA. The DNA tests was not available at that time so neither one of them knew for sure who the baby's father was. I believe Cesar thought that baby was his and when he killed Maria, he thought he was killing his own child too. That is the most disturbing part of Cesar's mental issues.

JMO

[Tokyo Rose]

Hi Rosie!

I don't agree that he fooled the Marine Corps. The Marine Corps is very hard to fool. They are tough as nails and micromanage all Marines. Up until Maria was killed I do believe wholeheartedly that Laurean was an exemplary Marine. His record of achievements shows it. He cant fake those and it is very hard to be a top Marine who gets meritoriously promoted. Even through great adversity of the allegations lodged against him he continued to do his job and never missed work and returning to base once he had returned from a 10 day leave as he was required to do.

There is no evidence that Laurean ever even had an affair the entire time he was married from the age of 18. Not one mention that he ever sexually harassed anyone. Not one mention of acting violent against others. He had no criminal record or discipline problems. If he had he would not have been awarded his good cookie medal. In fact he was said to be easy going and well liked by his fellow Marines.

So whatever happened the day Maria was killed was totally out of character for Laurean, imo which makes me believe it was a spontaneous explosion when he came face to face with Maria.

What is in her history will matter just like what is in Laurean's.

imo

I still don't see how Maria's history, which is not a bad history at all, will matter to the murder case. There is a motive there for killing her, so that part will probably matter.

I don't think it possible for someone to have a spontaneous explosion and commit a murder unless it is in him to begin with.

I think he kept himself under control, which was probably not easy, while around others including the Marines, but could have exploded there also. That is how he fooled the Marines. We also don't know his history while a juvenile growing up.

It's still 1st degree murder becuase he robbed her dead or dying body.

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

Gentle,

On a side note, one can be obsessed with another person and not have contact or be around them. It would just make the obsession grow.

JMO

[bkwits]

How would he know that Maria would come to his house with him being there all alone? She had said he was her rapist.:confused:

How could he be obsessed with her and why would he be obsessed? There is no evidence that they had even spoken or seen each other since the MPO had been put in place in May?:confused:

I am not talking about what his status is now. The Marine Corps has discharged him due to him being AWOL for over 30 days. They have not decided his innocence or guilt. That will be up to a local jury.

imo

LE had said there was contact that previous to her coming to the house. Maybe he lured her to his house.

I said he "might have been" obsessed with Maria. There is no reasonable explanation for obsession. It is an aberration. IMO

[bkwits]

Gentle,

On a side note, one can be obsessed with another person and not have contact or be around them. It would just make the obsession grow.

JMO

Exactly, his accessing porno pics of pregnant women on his computer may tie into such an obsession. I do not believe that Cesar was a victim of Maria. IMO

[GentleBreeze]

Good Morning Gentle,

Two things make me believe he knew she was coming to his house that day.

RS said there were two contacts that day and one was when he killed her. The other I believe was a phone call from one to the other arranging a meeting. Remember, he knew Christina wouldn't be there.

Also his looking at porn on his computer that afternoon, some of which was pregnant women porn. I believe he had plans for Maria.

I also believe Maria let her guard down because she was leaving town and letting him off the hook for the rape charges as well as taking the evidence with her. The baby's DNA. The DNA tests was not available at that time so neither one of them knew for sure who the baby's father was. I believe Cesar thought that baby was his and when he killed Maria, he thought he was killing his own child too. That is the most disturbing part of Cesar's mental issues.

JMO

Good Morning, Rosie!

Oh I didn't know that three contacts had been made that day. I was under the impression that Maria came there after she got off duty and then returned to his home some time later.

For the life of me though Rosie, I can make no sense of why Maria would come there for any reason under the sun if what she had been alleging was remotely true. I have never been able to logically wrap my mind around that. To this day it just makes no sense based on what was to have transpired, according to Maria. And coming when she knew he was alone is even more mind boggling. And returning to his home again is even more mind blowing.

Well a lot of military guys and gals look at porn. I have never looked at porn but I do know millions of others do. I will just have to wait and see if this was a site showing only pregnant women or if it was a multitude of women in several different poses and some happened to be pregnant.

Unfortunately Hudson cant just "think" something. He has to have something to back up his claims if he is going to say that CL didn't know the child wasn't his and I think that is going to be very tough to do. I expect McNeil will have one of the NCIS attorneys testify that Laurean already knew that Maria had recanted her story way back the first of November. There were hearings to discuss this matter where all parties had to attend. So I don't think there is any proof that Laurean thought Gabriel was his. His wife has been pregnant before and I am sure he knows how long a full term pregnancy last.

I respectfully disagree, Rosie. I think Maria knew all along that the child was never his. She tried to recanted it to stop the DNA being taken from CL but she still knew they were going to do the DNA testing anyway. She was in a pickle. She knew the baby wasn't his and I think she felt they would start putting the pressure on her to reveal who the real father was and she was trying to protect him. I think he is married and was of a higher rank than CL. Why wouldnt she want it known who he was. All she had to do is say and then a dna sample would verify it and the Corps would have immediately set up child support payments once the baby was born. The Corps is excellent in doing that.

I don't think he was trying to murder his own child. I do believe his anger and frustration was solely toward Maria.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

LE had said there was contact that previous to her coming to the house. Maybe he lured her to his house.

I said he "might have been" obsessed with Maria. There is no reasonable explanation for obsession. It is an aberration. IMO

Lured her? How? She was in her own vehicle in Jacksonville away from his home.:confused:

I just don't see any obsession. I expect to see witnesses that will testify that CL went about his daily life as he always had after being accused, both off and on duty.

imo

[baywench]

Good Morning, Rosie!

Oh I didn't know that three contacts had been made that day. I was under the impression that Maria came there after she got off duty and then returned to his home some time later.

For the life of me though Rosie, I can make no sense of why Maria would come there for any reason under the sun if what she had been alleging was remotely true. I have never been able to logically wrap my mind around that. To this day it just makes no sense based on what was to have transpired, according to Maria. And coming when she knew he was alone is even more mind boggling. And returning to his home again is even more mind blowing.

Well a lot of military guys and gals look at porn. I have never looked at porn but I do know millions of others do. I will just have to wait and see if this was a site showing only pregnant women or if it was a multitude of women in several different poses and some happened to be pregnant.

Unfortunately Hudson cant just "think" something. He has to have something to back up his claims if he is going to say that CL didn't know the child wasn't his and I think that is going to be very tough to do. I expect McNeil will have one of the NCIS attorneys testify that Laurean already knew that Maria had recanted her story way back the first of November. There were hearings to discuss this matter where all parties had to attend. So I don't think there is any proof that Laurean thought Gabriel was his. His wife has been pregnant before and I am sure he knows how long a full term pregnancy last.

I respectfully disagree, Rosie. I think Maria knew all along that the child was never his. She tried to recanted it to stop the DNA being taken from CL but she still knew they were going to do the DNA testing anyway. She was in a pickle. She knew the baby wasn't his and I think she felt they would start putting the pressure on her to reveal who the real father was and she was trying to protect him. I think he is married and was of a higher rank than CL. Why wouldnt she want it known who he was. All she had to do is say and then a dna sample would verify it and the Corps would have immediately set up child support payments once the baby was born. The Corps is excellent in doing that.

I don't think he was trying to murder his own child. I do believe his anger and frustration was solely toward Maria.

imo


I agree wholeheartedly with you GB. I do not believe that Cl was obsessed with Maria. In fact, it seems the other way to me. She may have been obsessed with him which is why she was so angry with him in the beginning when this all started. I have always felt it was some sort of rejection of her that caused her to cry rape and put all the wheels in motion. She at some point had to know she would be ruining his marriage and his career by rape allegations. That's a pretty mad lady. The Marine Corp was not "fooled" by him FGS. He was a stellar marine up to that point. I am going to get rotting vegetables thrown at me but I was raised in the military. You an be a stellar marine and a creep at the same time. Maria had issues of credibility and had raised flags about her stablility imo. I don't think CL thought for one moment that he was killing his own child. I don't think he thought at all. I don't believe this was premediated. It was a crime of passion if there ever was one. If he did plan it, he's even more of a moron than I thought since his disposal of the body and story left a lot to be desired. jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

Good Morning, Rosie!

Oh I didn't know that three contacts had been made that day. I was under the impression that Maria came there after she got off duty and then returned to his home some time later.

For the life of me though Rosie, I can make no sense of why Maria would come there for any reason under the sun if what she had been alleging was remotely true. I have never been able to logically wrap my mind around that. To this day it just makes no sense based on what was to have transpired, according to Maria. And coming when she knew he was alone is even more mind boggling. And returning to his home again is even more mind blowing.

Well a lot of military guys and gals look at porn. I have never looked at porn but I do know millions of others do. I will just have to wait and see if this was a site showing only pregnant women or if it was a multitude of women in several different poses and some happened to be pregnant.

Unfortunately Hudson cant just "think" something. He has to have something to back up his claims if he is going to say that CL didn't know the child wasn't his and I think that is going to be very tough to do. I expect McNeil will have one of the NCIS attorneys testify that Laurean already knew that Maria had recanted her story way back the first of November. There were hearings to discuss this matter where all parties had to attend. So I don't think there is any proof that Laurean thought Gabriel was his. His wife has been pregnant before and I am sure he knows how long a full term pregnancy last.

I respectfully disagree, Rosie. I think Maria knew all along that the child was never his. She tried to recanted it to stop the DNA being taken from CL but she still knew they were going to do the DNA testing anyway. She was in a pickle. She knew the baby wasn't his and I think she felt they would start putting the pressure on her to reveal who the real father was and she was trying to protect him. I think he is married and was of a higher rank than CL. Why wouldnt she want it known who he was. All she had to do is say and then a dna sample would verify it and the Corps would have immediately set up child support payments once the baby was born. The Corps is excellent in doing that.

I don't think he was trying to murder his own child. I do believe his anger and frustration was solely toward Maria.

imo

Even if he didn't think it was his own child, which I think he was very worried it was, it is chilling he would kill a woman who was eight months pregnant without a thought to the fact he would kill the baby too. Either way it makes him a cold blooded killer.

Is there a lot of pregnant women porn? I myself was shocked to hear there was any at all. I would think he would have to go looking for that. It is just way too coincidental he was looking at that and Maria was on her way.

Actually, there is no proof Maria knew his wife would be gone. She may have thought Christina would be there. I think he invited her over with some sort of a whopper kind of ploy.

The Corps would have had no business asking Maria who the father was. They wouldn't want DNA and proof who the father was. It wasn't Cesar's and that is all they would want to know. It's no one's business now and it is not necessary to know to prove murder against Cesar.

I'm not surprised he could control himself and go about his business while being accused of rape. He did the same thing right after he committed murder. It shows he is very cold, calculating, with no empathy for two human lives.

It was two contacts that day, not three.

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

I really don't know why Cesar would have been so angry and frustrated at Maria to go crazy and beat her to death. She was leaving and he was off the hook. Nope, that wasn't good enough for Cesar. He wanted to make sure she would never come back too.

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

I think Cesar sits in his little cell cusing himself out for having killed Maria for nothing. When he finally heard the DNA results it was Maria reaching out from the grave and slapping him right in the face.

He knows now he would have been off the hook.

She and Gabriel will rest much easier when he is convicted of 1st degree murder and spends the rest of his life in prison. Maybe he'll be a stellar inmate.:wink:

jmo

[martha]

I agree wholeheartedly with you GB. I do not believe that Cl was obsessed with Maria. In fact, it seems the other way to me. She may have been obsessed with him which is why she was so angry with him in the beginning when this all started. I have always felt it was some sort of rejection of her that caused her to cry rape and put all the wheels in motion. She at some point had to know she would be ruining his marriage and his career by rape allegations. That's a pretty mad lady. The Marine Corp was not "fooled" by him FGS. He was a stellar marine up to that point. I am going to get rotting vegetables thrown at me but I was raised in the military. You an be a stellar marine and a creep at the same time. Maria had issues of credibility and had raised flags about her stablility imo. I don't think CL thought for one moment that he was killing his own child. I don't think he thought at all. I don't believe this was premediated. It was a crime of passion if there ever was one. If he did plan it, he's even more of a moron than I thought since his disposal of the body and story left a lot to be desired. jmoITA with you and GB on this. You have a good insight into things and so does gb.I bet we may be shocked what we hear at trial. The way this all happened is just something I can;t understand. There is more to it than we know right now.jmho

[GentleBreeze]

I think Cesar sits in his little cell cusing himself out for having killed Maria for nothing. When he finally heard the DNA results it was Maria reaching out from the grave and slapping him right in the face.

He knows now he would have been off the hook.

She and Gabriel will rest much easier when he is convicted of 1st degree murder and spends the rest of his life in prison. Maybe he'll be a stellar inmate.:wink:

jmo

I think he had already told McNeil that he wasn't the father even before the results came back.

One thing about it no one really knows what happened that day but Laurean and the DA and LE have never had a chance to talk to him but McNeil has and imo he knows much more about the details than the state.

He will probably be a model prisoner if he is convicted, I don't doubt that at all.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

ITA with you and GB on this. You have a good insight into things and so does gb.I bet we may be shocked what we hear at trial. The way this all happened is just something I can;t understand. There is more to it than we know right now.jmho

Hi there, sweet lady.

I totally agree.

There are so many unanswered questions in this case. Something has always been missing imo and some things we know don't make any logical sense.:confused:

imo

[bkwits]

Even if he didn't think it was his own child, which I think he was very worried it was, it is chilling he would kill a woman who was eight months pregnant without a thought to the fact he would kill the baby too. Either way it makes him a cold blooded killer.

Is there a lot of pregnant women porn? I myself was shocked to hear there was any at all. I would think he would have to go looking for that. It is just way too coincidental he was looking at that and Maria was on her way.

Actually, there is no proof Maria knew his wife would be gone. She may have thought Christina would be there. I think he invited her over with some sort of a whopper kind of ploy.

The Corps would have had no business asking Maria who the father was. They wouldn't want DNA and proof who the father was. It wasn't Cesar's and that is all they would want to know. It's no one's business now and it is not necessary to know to prove murder against Cesar.

I'm not surprised he could control himself and go about his business while being accused of rape. He did the same thing right after he committed murder. It shows he is very cold, calculating, with no empathy for two human lives.

It was two contacts that day, not three.

jmo

I totally agree with you, Rose. Cesar is no victim by any means. His actions after he cruelly murdered Maria show what kind of person he is and was. He was sadistic, IMO. Remember how there were baby clothes thrown into the pit with Maria's body? Remember how he had the bonfire party over the bodies of Maria and Gabriel? Remember how he ran to Mexico and left his wife and child to deal with his ghastly deed? He hid out in a shed like a coward that he is.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

I totally agree with you, Rose. Cesar is no victim by any means. His actions after he cruelly murdered Maria show what kind of person he is and was. He was sadistic, IMO. Remember how there were baby clothes thrown into the pit with Maria's body? Remember how he had the bonfire party over the bodies of Maria and Gabriel? Remember how he ran to Mexico and left his wife and child to deal with his ghastly deed? He hid out in a shed like a coward that he is.

JMO

He is not the victim who lost their life, that is for certain but it doesn't mean that there aren't mitigating factors that may come into play in this case just like they do in other cases.

I wholeheartedly believe that Winkler cold blooded murdered her sleeping husband but the jury didn't agree with me and thought there were extenuating circumstances.

If he was so cold and preplanned all of this then why did he hit her only one time against the head and not repeatedly bludgeon her?

I don't think it shows that he was sadistic by throwing the baby clothes in the shallow grave, Imo he was trying to bury any evidence that could be tied back to Maria.

If he had wanted to burn her up he had every opportunity to do so. He certainly wouldn't have covered her up first with dirt over her body and then have a bonfire above the ground.

I think he made the bonfires there because he had dug a shallow grave right in his backyard and wanted to camouflage the freshly turned earth that looked like a makeshift grave. If he had wanted to burn her up then he would have burned a bonfire all the time up until January 10. There is no mention of further bonfires after the Christmas holidays had past.

Yes, he fled to Mexico. Christina must be understanding as to why he did that since she went to visit him in Mexico and when he returned to Jacksonville. It was said she even took his little daughter to see her father.

imo

[baywench]

He is not the victim who lost their life, that is for certain but it doesn't mean that there aren't mitigating factors that may come into play in this case just like they do in other cases.

I wholeheartedly believe that Winkler cold blooded murdered her sleeping husband but the jury didn't agree with me and thought there were extenuating circumstances.

If he was so cold and preplanned all of this then why did he hit her only one time against the head and not repeatedly bludgeon her?

I don't think it shows that he was sadistic by throwing the baby clothes in the shallow grave, Imo he was trying to bury any evidence that could be tied back to Maria.

If he had wanted to burn her up he had every opportunity to do so. He certainly wouldn't have covered her up first with dirt over her body and then have a bonfire above the ground.

I think he made the bonfires there because he had dug a shallow grave right in his backyard and wanted to camouflage the freshly turned earth that looked like a makeshift grave. If he had wanted to burn her up then he would have burned a bonfire all the time up until January 10. There is no mention of further bonfires after the Christmas holidays had past.

Yes, he fled to Mexico. Christina must be understanding as to why he did that since she went to visit him in Mexico and when he returned to Jacksonville. It was said she even took his little daughter to see her father.

imo


The only way I can make ANY sense of Christina's behavior is if she truly believed that he was being framed. In that case, her perspective would be that this woman was trying to destroy her family for no reason that she understood. It would be so interesting to know if Christina believed Cesar or just forgave him. This crime shows so much anger which is why I can't discount that Christina may have had something to do with this. Can you imagine how angry she must have been? I think Cesar killed her, and Christina knew. I would also like to know more about Maria's relationship with her mother. It was so strange and I think would give alot insight into Maria's way of thinking. jmo

[martha]

I to would love to know more about m and her mother and how they got along. To me there is something strange about those two. Was m afraid of her mother? I just don;t know why m had to lie about things to everyone. She seemed to be a nice girl in school and did well. I am sure when she got in the marines she understood how much trouble she could get into for having an affair with someone. I don;t think cl raped her. I do think she was having an affair with someone higher up.jmho

[bkwits]

I to would love to know more about m and her mother and how they got along. To me there is something strange about those two. Was m afraid of her mother? I just don;t know why m had to lie about things to everyone. She seemed to be a nice girl in school and did well. I am sure when she got in the marines she understood how much trouble she could get into for having an affair with someone. I don;t think cl raped her. I do think she was having an affair with someone higher up.jmho

It's not about Maria and her mother. It is about determining who killed her and what his or her punishment should be.

Maria and Gabriel deserve justice. Maria does not deserve someone picking apart her life for no reason.

I believe that Cesar killed her. The rape doesn't really matter but I believe since he has proven to be a violent man (and rape is a violent act) that he did rape her.

He also killled a viable fetus that was very near term. Surely, even if you don't think Maria was innocent, you will concede that Gabriel was totally innocent.

IMO

IMO

[GentleBreeze]

The only way I can make ANY sense of Christina's behavior is if she truly believed that he was being framed. In that case, her perspective would be that this woman was trying to destroy her family for no reason that she understood. It would be so interesting to know if Christina believed Cesar or just forgave him. This crime shows so much anger which is why I can't discount that Christina may have had something to do with this. Can you imagine how angry she must have been? I think Cesar killed her, and Christina knew. I would also like to know more about Maria's relationship with her mother. It was so strange and I think would give alot insight into Maria's way of thinking. jmo

Hi Bay,

Truthfully I think she believes him 100% totally.

So many things I would like to know. I have even wondered before she joined the Marines if she had told other outlandish tales like she spun once getting into the Corps. Now little white lies are one thing but the ones she told were so over the top that they were mind boggling and she must have been good at telling them too because the Marine Corps called Maria to verify her story about her little brother being killed by Maria's father.

I just would have liked to know what made Maria tick and why she felt compelled to spin such incredible yarns. Didn't she even tell someone that she had cancer and had to have a hysterectomy and of course that wasn't true since she was pregnant with Mr. whomever's child.

See I don't see a lot of anger. If a lot of anger was there it seems like he would have bludgeoned her in the head over and over again until his anger was spent. The one blow to the head baffles me.

In the aftermath I see chaos, disorganization with no aforethought.

There are just so many questions in this case.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

It's not about Maria and her mother. It is about determining who killed her and what his or her punishment should be.

Maria and Gabriel deserve justice. Maria does not deserve someone picking apart her life for no reason.

I believe that Cesar killed her. The rape doesn't really matter but I believe since he has proven to be a violent man (and rape is a violent act) that he did rape her.

He also killed a viable fetus that was very near term. Surely, even if you don't think Maria was innocent, you will concede that Gabriel was totally innocent.

IMO

IMO

Of course Gabriel was innocent and didn't deserve any of this and Maria didn't deserve to die either but there still can be extenuating circumstances that caused this tragedy to happen. I sure don't think it was planned.

I think the murder and it has yet to be determined if he is guilty or not was totally out of character for CL. I do not think this man has one thing in his history showing him to be a violent man. Those that worked with him said he was easy going and well liked. The female Marine that worked with him closely said he talked about his little daughter all the time and what the best diapers were to buy. Sure doesn't sound violent to me.

I do not believe Maria's allegation of rape. Maria has a history of making up bodacious stories. Nothing has ever connected Laurean to even having sexual contact with her and NCIS tried to find it for months, in fact they still were trying to find it when the DOD did the DNA paternity test on CL when he returned to Jacksonville and we all know how that turned out. He is not the father but someone sure is and they know who they are yet they refuse to claim Gabriel as their own.

imoo

[sunstar]

I totally agree with you, Rose. Cesar is no victim by any means. His actions after he cruelly murdered Maria show what kind of person he is and was. He was sadistic, IMO. Remember how there were baby clothes thrown into the pit with Maria's body? Remember how he had the bonfire party over the bodies of Maria and Gabriel? Remember how he ran to Mexico and left his wife and child to deal with his ghastly deed? He hid out in a shed like a coward that he is.

JMO

Hi! About the part with him running to Mexico and leaving his wife to deal with his ghastly deed ~ I think it's very possible that it was a joint decision for him to go there to avoid the DP and military court martial. I think she gave him a head start before she even reported he'd left and I think he had some help in getting out of the country. She also went and visited him in Mexico. I also still believe she knew Maria was in the back yard and what happened. So it just doesn't seem she was all that traumatized by his ghastly deed. MOO

[Tokyo Rose]

It's not about Maria and her mother. It is about determining who killed her and what his or her punishment should be.

Maria and Gabriel deserve justice. Maria does not deserve someone picking apart her life for no reason.

I believe that Cesar killed her. The rape doesn't really matter but I believe since he has proven to be a violent man (and rape is a violent act) that he did rape her.

He also killled a viable fetus that was very near term. Surely, even if you don't think Maria was innocent, you will concede that Gabriel was totally innocent.

IMO

IMO


I agree with you 100%. He has proven himself to be a violent man. Violence that irrational doesn't just pop up out of the blue. I wonder what Christina could tell us about Cesar's violence and his love of porn?

There is no excuse for what Cesar did no matter what anyone says about Maria. She and Gabriel are the only victims in this case of cold blooded murder.

The rapes don't matter anymore except Maria's reporting them makes for a motive for what Cesar did.

It certainly doesn't matter about Maria's mother and their relationship. That is no one's business and the jury won't hear anything about that.

jmo

[Tokyo Rose]

Of course Gabriel was innocent and didn't deserve any of this and Maria didn't deserve to die either but there still can be extenuating circumstances that caused this tragedy to happen. I sure don't think it was planned.

I think the murder and it has yet to be determined if he is guilty or not was totally out of character for CL. I do not think this man has one thing in his history showing him to be a violent man. Those that worked with him said he was easy going and well liked. The female Marine that worked with him closely said he talked about his little daughter all the time and what the best diapers were to buy. Sure doesn't sound violent to me.

I do not believe Maria's allegation of rape. Maria has a history of making up bodacious stories. Nothing has ever connected Laurean to even having sexual contact with her and NCIS tried to find it for months, in fact they still were trying to find it when the DOD did the DNA paternity test on CL when he returned to Jacksonville and we all know how that turned out. He is not the father but someone sure is and they know who they are yet they refuse to claim Gabriel as their own.

imoo


I don't believe there are any extenuating circumstances for murder. There are excuses defendants will use, but they mean nothing. After the murder it is too late for cop outs and whining.

I also think Cesar can talk to women without being violent, but with Maria that was a different story.

The prosecutors served a warrant on Cesar for DNA when he returned form Mexico, not the DOJ.

It doesn't matter who the father is and it's no one's business. They just want to know if Cesar is or not. Besides, no one knows if the father has come forward or not.

jmo

[bkwits]

I don't believe there are any extenuating circumstances for murder. There are excuses defendants will use, but they mean nothing. After the murder it is too late for cop outs and whining.

I also think Cesar can talk to women without being violent, but with Maria that was a different story.

The prosecutors served a warrant on Cesar for DNA when he returned form Mexico, not the DOJ.

It doesn't matter who the father is and it's no one's business. They just want to know if Cesar is or not. Besides, no one knows if the father has come forward or not.

jmo


I totally agree with all of your post. If it wasn't so sad, it would be hysterically funny how some make a murderer appear to be a martyr. She made him do it. Gimme a break. He was kind because he covered her dead body with dirt before having his friends over for a bonfire.

Oh yeah, he has no known history of being a cruel sadistic person. How old is he, early 20's? Scott Peterson, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy...people thought they were nice guys too.

IMO

[GentleBreeze]

I don't believe there are any extenuating circumstances for murder. There are excuses defendants will use, but they mean nothing. After the murder it is too late for cop outs and whining.

I also think Cesar can talk to women without being violent, but with Maria that was a different story.

The prosecutors served a warrant on Cesar for DNA when he returned form Mexico, not the DOJ.

It doesn't matter who the father is and it's no one's business. They just want to know if Cesar is or not. Besides, no one knows if the father has come forward or not.

jmo

Yes, but none of us knows that for certain so there certainly could be extenuating circumstances. We see those come forth at a trial not before. Many times that is why verdicts are lesser degrees than the DA was asking.

Hudson said that the DNA paternity testing was going to be done when Laurean returned. I always thought that extremely strange since his own home was filled with his DNA. They are identifying people today even by a strand of hair. But Hudson did not to the testing... that was done by the Department of Defense.

I think it WILL very much matter........it is one of the missing links to this entire saga. The state nor the DOD would have waited a year and a half to get Laurean's DNA to test for fatherhood if another Mr. Whomever had already stepped forward to claim his child. McNeil would not allow it because they would have had no probable cause to test paternity if paternity was already known. They didn't have a clue who the father was and they still don't. I do wonder if Cesar knows though. I wouldn't be surprised if he does. I think the only logical reason for remaining silent is this Mr. Whomever must be very much married, higher rank and many more years of service that CL with much more to lose.

It is never too late to let the entire truth come forward in any case. That is what trials are for.....evidence from both sides not just one side.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I totally agree with all of your post. If it wasn't so sad, it would be hysterically funny how some make a murderer appear to be a martyr. She made him do it. Gimme a break. He was kind because he covered her dead body with dirt before having his friends over for a bonfire.


Oh yeah, he has no known history of being a cruel sadistic person. How old is he, early 20's? Scott Peterson, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy...people thought they were nice guys too.

IMO

Who said that?

It was known even before the trial that SP had repeatedly cheated on his wife. Ted Bundy and John Gacy are mass serial killers so I don't get the relevance.

In a year and a half not one thing has been uncovered that CL was violent or even had an affair on his wife. I do believe that the media would have liked nothing better to uncover any dirt on CL. They didn't find anything because before this happened he was a very squared away Marine who was exemplary which imo shows that whatever happened it was totally out of character for him.

Which makes me feel there are extenuating circumstances that we are unaware of at this time. I do not think he planned this murder whatsoever.

imo

[baywench]

Who said that?

It was known even before the trial that SP had repeatedly cheated on his wife. Ted Bundy and John Gacy are mass serial killers so I don't get the relevance.

In a year and a half not one thing has been uncovered that CL was violent or even had an affair on his wife. I do believe that the media would have liked nothing better to uncover any dirt on CL. They didn't find anything because before this happened he was a very squared away Marine who was exemplary which imo shows that whatever happened it was totally out of character for him.

Which makes me feel there are extenuating circumstances that we are unaware of at this time. I do not think he planned this murder whatsoever.

imo

OK it is so frustrating when any type of questioning about Maria AT ALL soon becomes an accusation that we are somehow saying she asked for it. Come on. I know she did not ask for it, nor of course did little Gabriel. However, to wonder why Maria did some of the things she did is not disrespectful imo. She was not perfect. That does not mean I believe all imperfect people deserved their own murders. I wish that ridiculous argument would stop. Cesar is a POS obviously. But not all POS commit murder and not all victims are angels. jmo

[bkwits]

OK it is so frustrating when any type of questioning about Maria AT ALL soon becomes an accusation that we are somehow saying she asked for it. Come on. I know she did not ask for it, nor of course did little Gabriel. However, to wonder why Maria did some of the things she did is not disrespectful imo. She was not perfect. That does not mean I believe all imperfect people deserved their own murders. I wish that ridiculous argument would stop. Cesar is a POS obviously. But not all POS commit murder and not all victims are angels. jmo

What is the point anyway in trying to find fault and see Maria's imperfections?

Is there any doubt that Cesar killed her and buried her in his back yard?

Why not focus on the killer? Why tear the victims apart? And yes, I do think it is disrespectful since Maria can't tell her side of the story. Cesar can say whatever he wants. Maria can't.

IMO

[bkwits]

Who said that?

It was known even before the trial that SP had repeatedly cheated on his wife. Ted Bundy and John Gacy are mass serial killers so I don't get the relevance.

In a year and a half not one thing has been uncovered that CL was violent or even had an affair on his wife. I do believe that the media would have liked nothing better to uncover any dirt on CL. They didn't find anything because before this happened he was a very squared away Marine who was exemplary which imo shows that whatever happened it was totally out of character for him.

Which makes me feel there are extenuating circumstances that we are unaware of at this time. I do not think he planned this murder whatsoever.

imo

And you know for a fact that Cesar has not cheated on his wife, even though he made a statement to LE that he "loved Maria." IMO, unless you know them very personally, you have no idea whether he was a faithful husband or not.

The media hasn't focused on this case. I don't hear one word about unless I come to this board.

IMO

[GentleBreeze]

And you know for a fact that Cesar has not cheated on his wife, even though he made a statement to LE that he "loved Maria." IMO, unless you know them very personally, you have no idea whether he was a faithful husband or not.

The media hasn't focused on this case. I don't hear one word about unless I come to this board.

IMO


Well there are other sites besides this one that do still discuss it. There is still no evidence that he cheated and the media was very focused on this case for months. Long enough to certainly nose around and uncover it. Just like in over a year and a half there is no proof that he had sexual contact with Maria.

Marines are to love their fellow Marines as a sister or brother.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

OK it is so frustrating when any type of questioning about Maria AT ALL soon becomes an accusation that we are somehow saying she asked for it. Come on. I know she did not ask for it, nor of course did little Gabriel. However, to wonder why Maria did some of the things she did is not disrespectful imo. She was not perfect. That does not mean I believe all imperfect people deserved their own murders. I wish that ridiculous argument would stop. Cesar is a POS obviously. But not all POS commit murder and not all victims are angels. jmo

I agree and the victim many times is very imperfect. I could never understand why when someone is killed they have to become perfect in some people's eyes to be considered a victim. Many victims are far from perfect but that doesn't mean they deserved what happened to them.

But it does bring into play many questions. It is just part of the process. The jury must learn who Maria was even with all of her imperfections just as they should learn and will about CLs. Killings don't just happen in a vacuum there is always a history there unless the killing is done by a stranger. The history on both may be the good, bad and the ugly. We will have to wait and see.

The trial just doesn't jump to Point B before going to Point A. The entire story needs to be told and have fluidity.

The trial has not been held. I do not know what happened and really by whom. That is why evidence is entered in a trial so that can be determined.

Until we hear all the evidence from both sides then the full truth will never be known until then.

imo

[bkwits]

Well there are other sites besides this one that do still discuss it. There is still no evidence that he cheated and the media was very focused on this case for months. Long enough to certainly nose around and uncover it. Just like in over a year and a half there is no proof that he had sexual contact with Maria.

Marines are to love their fellow Marines as a sister or brother.

imo

So he killed his sister Marine and her child? Threw her in a hole? Lied about it? Ran to Mexico instead of facing what he had done?

Some Marine. :glare:

[GentleBreeze]

So he killed his sister Marine and her child? Threw her in a hole? Lied about it? Ran to Mexico instead of facing what he had done?

Some Marine. :glare:

I have no idea. The trial hasn't been held yet. Even the notes he supposedly left behind have not been validated in a court of law or all of the contents. Yes, he did flee to Mexico.

imo

[bkwits]

I have no idea. The trial hasn't been held yet. Even the notes he supposedly left behind have not been validated in a court of law or all of the contents. Yes, he did flee to Mexico.

imo

You are doubtful that he killed Maria and Gabriel? Do you think Christina wrote the notes? Do you think Christina killed Maria and Gabriel?

Even though he admitted it to doing it in his letter? That is a big stretch. IMO

IMO, he killed Maria dumped her in the pit, lit a fire over her dead body, and only admitted to it after he knew he was caught.

I really don't have an opinion as to Christina's involvement after the murders, but, IMO, Cesar did this cowardly deed alone. He is certainly a discredit to the Marine Corps. IMO

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Well there are other sites besides this one that do still discuss it. There is still no evidence that he cheated and the media was very focused on this case for months. Long enough to certainly nose around and uncover it. Just like in over a year and a half there is no proof that he had sexual contact with Maria.
Marines are to love their fellow Marines as a sister or brother.

imo

No proof..hum..We havent had a trial yet have we?...No, so of course us public dont have proof...

Having said that tho, it really isnt a giant leap to speculate some of these accusations of cheating..or had some sort of relationship with Maria. If he was a squared away marine, loyal to his wife..good father and honourable man...then ya just have to ask...Why would he behave this way, beating a women with child to death..bury them in his backyard, burn them up??? flea the country leaving his wife and child behind????Frankly, I see most these actions as "Consiousness of Guilt"..or else why??? Is he just a sicko..enjoys such activities??

Im not here to argue whether he was baby's father..he wasnt, as it is now proven by dna..the BIG BUT tho, was what he thought or felt when he did the deed... Just my outside and objective view point..

LMS:mellow: