Apr. 27, 28, 29, 30 [Archive] - In Session Message Boards

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 12:12 PM

I have said from the very beginning of this case that I hope they do not suspend her court hearings and ship her off to a mental instituion where we never hear about this case again. I'm not so much worried about her getting off on an insanity plea, like everyone is stating, there is no legal basis at all for an insanity plea. But they might suspend all court hearings and send her for some evaluation that is never-ending.

It seems they want to go ahead and prosecute this case, but the defense could bring up so much of her past behavior etc and ask to have her evaluated and once there she never returns to court. Its possible her evaluation could go on for years. ugh.

I really hope this does not happen. They need to get this case out in the open where the public knows what is really going on. The public has been naive and in the dark too long about people like Melissa Huckaby.
Wow never thought of that lark..but would they send her away or just keep her in jail until they fought the insanity defense also anything they bring in the DA can attack so both sides have to be very very careful I for one think there is alot more than we know and alot more people who know her that will be talked to..as we see there is not to many people plastered on GMA and all these shows...as they are in some cases..for one anything they say now can be used against them later on..I think that is why her daughters father has went hush hush and I have a feeling the back support will be paid to someone since he came forward on National TV...jmo

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 12:15 PM

I miss having actual news on the case.

And I hate Melissa.

MOO.

I agree have a feeling before long everyone will be moving on until a trial happens which could be years from now..and I hate her :cursing:

lunchlady

04-27-2009, 12:21 PM

I hate gag orders. The judge put one on the Caffey murders in Texas and news ground to a halt immediately. The only news and photos that got out were from court appearances and the sentencings. Terry gave a series of interviews after the sentencing and some details came out then, but the wait was long and dry. All the chatter dried right up.

I predict that gag orders will get more and more common on cases with high public interest. I also wonder if judges don't do this partially to reduce the amount of media people hanging around their court house and jails. Changing the venue just moves the media circus to a new court house, which will annoy the next judge. I bet internet discussion is also a factor in imposing gag orders.

I think gag orders were intended to protect the right of the defendant/defendants to a fair trial, which I guess you could claim was the case for MH, but I suspect there are other reasons.

Erin Caffey's mental evaluation took months, but they ultimately decided that she was to be tried as an adult and that she was fit to stand trial. I predict that MH's mental evaulation will go the same way, even though she has more basis for a claim of mental problems.

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 12:43 PM

I know there is a huge difference in these cases but it does show it can take years to get to court I watched this trial one of the survivors were even posting with us..during the trial..she was found NG after 10yrs in prison. I was very angry I felt she did it but she acted like she was a nut in court but as soon as she walked out she was acting just fine..talking about her upcoming marriage..I do not for one think we should allow someone to sit in prison or a mental institution for 10yrs before a trial just because of the insanity defense..I think if you commit a crime you do the time in prison they can get meds to them just fine..ALL JMO

MH may have problems but in no way do I feel she is so insane she did know what she was doing in both cases they made statements and tried to cover up a crime..that is not insane to me..you know right from wrong your not insane..IMO

After 10 years in state prison without a trial
she had been diagnosed with mental retardation and various psychoses, made the statements involuntarily. She had been initially declared incompetent to stand trial, but after a few weeks of evaluations at Taunton State Hospital, psychiatrists found her competent, meaning she could understand the charges against her and assist in her defense

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 01:04 PM

I hate gag orders. The judge put one on the Caffey murders in Texas and news ground to a halt immediately. The only news and photos that got out were from court appearances and the sentencings. Terry gave a series of interviews after the sentencing and some details came out then, but the wait was long and dry. All the chatter dried right up.

I predict that gag orders will get more and more common on cases with high public interest. I also wonder if judges don't do this partially to reduce the amount of media people hanging around their court house and jails. Changing the venue just moves the media circus to a new court house, which will annoy the next judge. I bet Internet discussion is also a factor in imposing gag orders.

I think gag orders were intended to protect the right of the defendant/defendants to a fair trial, which I guess you could claim was the case for MH, but I suspect there are other reasons.

Erin Caffey's mental evaluation took months, but they ultimately decided that she was to be tried as an adult and that she was fit to stand trial. I predict that MH's mental evaulation will go the same way, even though she has more basis for a claim of mental problems.

I agree some things should never be released before a trial but if this was my town I would be more angry not knowing what was going on in this case..for one so many still think she may have done this alone but other things have came out such as the Tracy 60 and other things..I would want to know my child was safe and if it had anything to do with the investigation of Sandra they can not comment on it..gag orders yes on somethings I agree everyone deserve the right to a fair trial..

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 01:11 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deborah-king/melissa-huckaby-and-the-u_b_188921.html

Melissa Huckaby and the Unthinkable Sex Object:cursing:

I doubt if Huckaby is insane. And as I know both from personal experience and from working with many abused women, rape with a foreign object is not as unusual as one would like to think.

Let me explain. Sexual molestation is not so much about sex as it's about power. Rape, with or without a foreign object, is an act that disempowers the victim so the rapist can somehow reclaim the power/integrity that was stolen from them at some previous time. The rapist may not remember the physical, emotional and/or sexual abuse he or she suffered as a child. It may be buried deep in the psyche. The person never deals with the trauma, never clears the deep shame and humiliation and fear that were the legacy of the abuse, and so may be at risk to repeat the behavior they learned.

Firefly

04-27-2009, 01:32 PM

I look at it this way.. no matter if she claims mental issues she is going to be sent away.. I don't see how she can be innocent.. unless she really is taking the fall for someone and that is a big IF..(I don't really buy that either) The motive is what I really am interested in. I don't need to know what she did to Sandra, how she did, all I need to know is why..

If she is given the death penalty.. it's going to be more like LWOP because a woman hasn't been executed in CA since 1962 and that was Elizabeth Duncan.

Just realized.. the four from the Tracy Teen Torture case are also at French Camp jail.. boy they have a house full of nuts..

I agree. I think she is going to be sent away. The biggest question in my mind is for how long and for what.

I don't think the insanity plea is going to be used. The defense has got to know that won't work. Using the "it was unintentional" defense...I believe...stands a better chance of working...although I personally believe that she was acting deliberately. If she testifies that she had been giving the neighbors kids drugs when they came over to her house to keep them from getting out of control while they played with her daughter, or just to make them generally more managable, I think there there is a good chance she could walk away from this with a manslaughter conviction, or second degree murder conviction and not murder with special circumstances. Then her public statements after she was arrested that it was "an accident" can be used in her defense.

The prosecution MIGHT be able to argue that this was still murder with special circumstances. But the defense would have a strong argument that it was not murder AT ALL. Even the dumping of Sandra's body could be laid off to "panic" or "irrational thinking" after Melissa realizes she's "accidentally" killed a child and worries that no one will believe her when she says it was unintenntional. Or just admit on stand that she knew giving drugs to children was illegal in the first place so she had felt she needed to cover up the crime by hiding the body.....but that she had NOT started out with the intention to kill Sandra.

But if the defense can convince enough people that it WAS an accident, i.e. she didn't purposely start off with the notion of killing Sandra but somehow Sandra had an allergic reaction or accidentally got an overdose, then her sentence might be far less. Even manslaughter. And deaths with "special circumstances", if I understand correctly, have got to be first degree murders.

Then, as I've said before, the issue of whether rape did or did not occur then becomes huge. If there was, the death wasn't an accident. If there wasn't, then Melissa Huckaby at least has a POTENTIAL chance of getting a far, far less conviction and sentence than she would receive for first degree murder with special circumstances.

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 01:41 PM

This is what I mean their every word can be used later for one last night I read one interview that her GM said something Freakish would have had to have happened if she did this..and today I see this and her GP says "I have no doubt in mind she knows right from wrong," her grandfather, Clove Road Baptist Church pastor Lane Lawless, said. "At least I thought she did. Maybe I'm mistaken."

Mother hen OK well yeah maybe she did love children just not in the way some of us do. No one was fearful of her
John Huges Jr., Huckaby's uncle who lives in Whittier, Calif., told The Associated Press that his niece was "from a good home but had hit a rough patch in her life and had moved in with her grandparents in Tracyshe often played "mother hen" to the younger children at family get-together. Hughes told the AP, but there's no way [her grandparents] or anybody would be fearful that anything this horrifying could possible come from that."

This is one reason for them to all keep their pie holes shut I know media prints things wrong but her GM has said things I heard out of her own mouth that really bothered me..and she must have had them all fooled so do not see any insanity defense here...her own family has said she only suffered depression after a divorce..either they did not know her or she was very good at hiding things all jmo

juliekan

04-27-2009, 01:54 PM

ITA It shows she knew right from wrong..she will never get off on some insane def..even if she suffers from depression or bipolar I sure have not read to many kill over those mental illnesses they get help and take meds and live a normal life..stick a fork in her she is done..jmo

people with depression and/or bipolar are most likely to hurt themselves, if they are going to hurt someone.

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 02:21 PM

people with depression and/or bipolar are most likely to hurt themselves, if they are going to hurt someone.

I know that is what does not make since to me when you have depression usually it is yourself that you hurt or kill so her family saying she was depressed over a divorce means nothing to me..she is sane she is just pure EVIL ..IMO

snookums1

04-27-2009, 02:22 PM

This is quickly becoming global. Spain, Germany, Prague and many others. This site updates every 15 minutes on newly reported cases.

http://twitter.com/veratect

dinojen

04-27-2009, 02:27 PM

From my unserstanding she was recently evaluated and thought to be able to deal with charges in the thefts. This case will move forward but since the courts are always so busy, it will take a while.

Yeah this one is going to move at a snails pace... you watch. Heck it's taken them since Dec to get plea's done in the torture case..

She will be evaluated..for sure.. again.. and more than once.

Like I said before... I'm just curious of her motive or reasoning... can't imagine anyone wanting to do this to a child.. especially when you have your own daughter.. Something just doesn't make sense... JMO

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 02:32 PM

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 02:36 PM

Yeah this one is going to move at a snails pace... you watch. Heck it's taken them since Dec to get plea's done in the torture case..

She will be evaluated..for sure.. again.. and more than once.

Like I said before... I'm just curious of her motive or reasoning... can't imagine anyone wanting to do this to a child.. especially when you have your own daughter.. Something just doesn't make sense... JMO

All anyone will say such as experts is they think she was abused/molested and was acting out..I am not sure that is the motive or even true I do find it odd that this would be the first thing like this she has done..we only see theft I would not be surprised it this has not happened before the child just did not die...jmo

Details

04-27-2009, 02:36 PM

ITA...trying to hide the crime and the body and making up that ridiculous "somebody stole my luggage" story SHOWS she knows right from wrong LEGALLY. They may try an insanity plea but it won't wash.Insanity may not wash - and I don't think she was legally insane - but it's not due to trying to hide the crime.

Criminal insanity is when you don't know right from wrong. It doesn't mean, however, that you don't know the laws. A classic example would be someone who really believed God told them to kill a person. They would believe they were doing right (God is always right). However, that wouldn't mean they wouldn't know that the cops and other people would see it as wrong, and a coverup would be the only way to remain free to keep doing God's work. So - hiding the crime, making a story about stolen luggage, doesn't show a knowledge of right from wrong - it just shows a knowledge of what the police might do. It does show a good awareness of the world, kills a diminished capacity defense - but technically - it doesn't do a thing about the criminal insanity defense.

Still, criminal insanity is something you need to prove, and I don't see where they have nearly enough proof. Nothing about this crime suggests insanity - it suggests planning to get what she wanted, rehearsal on another child, etc. It's a high barrier - you need a long history, you need a shrink to testify they are quite divorced from reality, etc. But in the case of the woman who drown her children (thought by doing so she'd save them from Satan) - she called the police right after, and some said that proved she wasn't legally insane - and yet, she was found insane, and has been sentenced that way. She knew the police would find it wrong, lock her up - but she believed it was right. She was insane, legally. However - she had a long history of mental illness, problems, and shrinks examining her had no trouble seeing the insanity. I don't think this person has any of that - she was functioning in the normal world.

KittyMom

04-27-2009, 02:42 PM

Have I missed any news of other victims coming forward? I really think LE needs to looks within that family if she was a babysitter for other family members.

jstwondering

04-27-2009, 02:57 PM

Unless it is depression/bipolar combined with psychopathy/sociopathy/munchausen's. I don't think it's Munchausen's, usually they harm themselves or their own child. OTOH, she could have drugged Sandra, hoping to make a miraculous revival, and it all went awry. Who knows? At this point the only thing I am conviced of is that she raped and killed Sandra and is fit to be executed.:cursing:
IMO

I think that the munchausen's was suggested because she had all those hospital visits in her past and had to declare bankruptcy. Also, it may even have evolved into munchausen's by proxy because her daughter madison was known as very sickly, and she would never let her out of the house.

Firefly

04-27-2009, 03:11 PM

Still, criminal insanity is something you need to prove, and I don't see where they have nearly enough proof. Nothing about this crime suggests insanity - it suggests planning to get what she wanted, rehearsal on another child, etc. It's a high barrier - you need a long history, you need a shrink to testify they are quite divorced from reality, etc.

Well it probably shows that Melissa Huckaby had drugged at least one other child than Sandra before this. If Sandra's toxicology reports come back showing drugs, then you have two cases of children in MH's care who can be shown to have been drugged. So the deliberate drugging of children can fairly clearly be shown. THAT much, if the toxicology agrees, seems clear.

Why she was drugging kids then becomes the issue. The prosecution says for sexual assault which led to murder. But just like there is usually a history of bizarre behavior that would suggest insanity, there is usually a history of aggressive behavior toward previous victims that suggests sexual assault in their background. Usually the first crime a sexual assaulter makes is not a brutal sexual assault with murder. It's usually much smaller acts of sexual assault. And so far that hasn't been shown publicly. There may be tons of evidence the police have gathered from the body, or within MH's home or the church that would clearly prove sexual assault was a motive, but publicly....her previous crimes have been theft. No mention throughout her life of sexual assault by her. Generally described by most people who knew her as occasionally depressed, but not violent. And many people described her as being a nice person. So there's some ambiguity there.

As to planning to get what she wants....rehearsal...some elements seem to suggest that, but a lot about this case seems to have been hurried, not well thought out, and poorly planned if it was intended to be deliberate. It almost seems like it was a spur of the moment thing in some ways and that MH then felt like she had to scurry around afterward trying to clean it up...otherwise why not have another method of moving the body than to use your own suitcase? Or a better alibi for what happened to the suitcase? Or why not have picked a location further away from the home to dump the body? Or for that matter, an entirely different method of concealing the body?

Firefly

04-27-2009, 03:18 PM

I hate to say this but... its POSSIBLE this happened before and the child did die, listed as another missing child somewhere.

Anything is possible. My suggestion to the police would be to go back and look for other children that might have been playmates of Melissa Huckaby's child. Of the two cases we know about, both were linked to Melissa Huckaby by being playmates with her daughter. So maybe the cops should go back to other cities and see if some children who might have been around her daughter at day care, or family meetings, or other events might not have died mysteriously, or gone missing.

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 03:20 PM

All I have to say is I understand the darn gag order but it is driving me nuts cause I am reading all the old stuff..

this is from the 30th says she came home for 2 minutes then left again..in the part we see it does not look like that it looks as if she was going home but then kept walking...I think they have a lot more on that video or Tony S does not know what he is talking about..we did only see seconds of many hours..so from 4pm to 7:53 which is 3hrs and 53 mins I still do not think she did all this in that amount of time..I think she later went back and dumped her body when it was not daylight plus I have never heard how long her family looked for her they did not call 911 right away they first looked around the MH park for her so that would even make it less time than 3hrs and 53 mins..I hope they can prove she did go back and dump her it will show she knew what she had done and had to go cover it up not a crime under the insanity defense or temp/insane defense.If her GP said she was only gone for 1hr I really think there is no way she did it all that in 1 hr JMO

just before 4 seen coming home from friends returning to do homework
mom did not see her come in she was in there less than 2 minutes from the video on the MH
last seen 4pm turned south and last seen

reported missing at 7:53 when she did not come in for supper and they could not find her..one report I just read said they went to the house of one friend and she was not there..so wonder if this is MH daughter she did say Sandra had been at their home that day right?
I think perhaps they did not look into her enough because she was a women and a mother of her little friend..not that any of this could have saved her but it just shows us we have to stop thinking only men do horrific things..

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=4087360&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/

Firefly

04-27-2009, 03:39 PM

All I have to say is I understand the darn gag order but it is driving me nuts cause I am reading all the old stuff..

That's what bothers me too. I'd like to have some idea what the toxicology report says and at least get a description (not keen on seeing the photos) of the autopsy and what the medical examiner found.

As to dumping the body, it will be argued by the prosecution that this shows evidence of "guilty mind". That Melissa had committed a murder and knew it and needed to hide the body. The defense will argue that it shows their client "panicked" and acted irrationally. For example, if MH was giving drugs to her own kid and Sandra, and Sandra accidentally overdoses and dies in her house...MH *knows* that giving the drugs was wrong and that she'll be blamed. So she hides the body. That's still murder by the way...but it might not be first degree murder. Might even reach the manslaughter level. It's then up to the prosecution to show that by no means could it have been an accident, and one really really good argument is hiding the body. So it's strong evidence for the prosecution, but not...completely...a slam dunk.

Firefly

04-27-2009, 03:45 PM

she is sane she is just pure EVIL ..IMO

I agree. I'd probably say, "cold blooded" versus calling her evil. As long as she never does anything against someone else though being evil is actually legally okay. :laugh:

I've said many times I'm not sure I agree she was committing rape on these kids...but my opinion is that she despised them and deliberately set out to kill them. Just because I say that I think her defense is going to be that it was accidental does not mean that I *believe* that for a moment.

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 04:21 PM

just brainstorming....

was anyone in sandra's family, in the navy? her grandfather? anyone know?

I am not sure about that..what you up to lark..lol:wink:

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 04:23 PM

I agree. I'd probably say, "cold blooded" versus calling her evil. As long as she never does anything against someone else though being evil is actually legally okay. :laugh:

I've said many times I'm not sure I agree she was committing rape on these kids...but my opinion is that she despised them and deliberately set out to kill them. Just because I say that I think her defense is going to be that it was accidental does not mean that I *believe* that for a moment.

very cold-blooded
I dont get the accident part of it but guess thanks to the wonderful gag order we wont know for awhile.:thumbdown:

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 04:31 PM

That's what bothers me too. I'd like to have some idea what the toxicology report says and at least get a description (not keen on seeing the photos) of the autopsy and what the medical examiner found.

As to dumping the body, it will be argued by the prosecution that this shows evidence of "guilty mind". That Melissa had committed a murder and knew it and needed to hide the body. The defense will argue that it shows their client "panicked" and acted irrationally. For example, if MH was giving drugs to her own kid and Sandra, and Sandra accidentally overdoses and dies in her house...MH *knows* that giving the drugs was wrong and that she'll be blamed. So she hides the body. That's still murder by the way...but it might not be first degree murder. Might even reach the manslaughter level. It's then up to the prosecution to show that by no means could it have been an accident, and one really really good argument is hiding the body. So it's strong evidence for the prosecution, but not...completely...a slam dunk.

I would love to know what she told them and how they got those charges they had to have enough I would think at that time to add the charges..I would also like to see if they put DP on table and see if she will try to plea down..I for one would ask the DA not to take any deal but I think a lot of cases like this they do ask the family of the victim and if they are OK with a say LWOP or 60yrs instead of a horrible drawn out trial they may go with a plea..

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 04:51 PM

I miss having actual news on the case.

And I hate Melissa.

MOO.

Seems the only one that are getting news are Caylee's the wonderful sunshine law..Tori from Canada is not getting to much I see..so sad all these kids :crying:

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 05:15 PM

am I hear all alone..:biggrin:
j/k I know not to much info so no new news on the case:thumbdown:

MoonHarvest

04-27-2009, 05:17 PM

I worry about the illegals crossing over into the US. How many of them will carry this virus over here and spread it around. What can be done about that?

Kitty, we have so many illegals in this part of the country, it's mind boggling.

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 05:28 PM

once again I am reading old news but some I had never seen..This is all earlier news links..

Investigators on Tuesday evening took a few items from the Clover Road church and looked inside the crawl spaces and a water heater shed out front.?

Lawless, a pastor of the church since 1981, has no criminal history and no civil lawsuits against him in San Joaquin County, court records show. The only property he owns in San Joaquin County is his mobile home.

But the Clover Road Baptist Church seems as physically isolated from the rest of the city, one of the last buildings on a dead-end street, as it seems culturally set apart from other churches in town.

Several Tracy pastors said they don’t know that much about Lawless; he dozen’t join the 15 or 20 other pastors in town for Thursdays prayer breakfasts.

Tim Heinrich of the Crossroads Baptist Church said Lawless declines to network with fellow pastors in town. Other pastors said the church has few events and focuses on church history because it disagrees with some of the tenets of others churches.

Sounds like Ol Gramps did not get to know to many of his fellow Pastors maybe that is why he never went to pray with the family they are Catholics even though it is odd since they knew little Sandra since she was born

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=results_content&id=2261962-Town+mourns+its+lost+child+as+police+look+for+clue s&article-Town%20mourns%20its%20lost%20child%20as%20police%2 0look%20for%20clues%20=&widget=push&open=&

Snoopy

04-27-2009, 05:36 PM

Snippets:
..I think she later went back and dumped her body when it was not daylight....I hope they can prove she did go back and dump her it will show she knew what she had done and had to go cover it up not a crime under the insanity defense or temp/insane defense.If her GP said she was only gone for 1hr I really think there is no way she did it all that in 1 hr JMO

I Totally Agree ! Would that be ITA (?) Because I do!

Snoopy

04-27-2009, 05:46 PM

Snippet:
...But the defense would have a strong argument that it was not murder AT ALL. Even the dumping of Sandra's body could be laid off to "panic" or "irrational thinking" after Melissa realizes she's "accidentally" killed a child and worries that no one will believe her when she says it was unintentional. Or just admit on stand that she knew giving drugs to children was illegal in the first place so she had felt she needed to cover up the crime by hiding the body.....but that she had NOT started out with the intention to kill Sandra.

....Then, as I've said before, the issue of whether rape did or did not occur then becomes huge. If there was, the death wasn't an accident. If there wasn't, then Melissa Huckaby at least has a POTENTIAL chance of getting a far, far less conviction and sentence than she would receive for first degree murder with special circumstances.

ITA (it that means I totally agree) with your first paragraph above. But I am not sure that the defense wouldn't claim that "rape" aspect was also part of the "panic" and an impetuous attempt to make it look like someone else (a male) did this.

dulcinea

04-27-2009, 06:46 PM

Has anything been mentioned about her possibly being part of the child porn ring in the area? I am suspicious because of the drugging of the 7 year old and the alleged rape involving Sandra. Was she possibly drugging children and violating them to make money as part of the porn ring? Aren't children forced into this disgustingness often drugged?

hoopa7p@aol.com

04-27-2009, 06:51 PM

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kitty1182

04-27-2009, 07:21 PM

Here in N.C.

http://www.digtriad.com/news/top/article.aspx?storyid=123180&catid=14

lunchlady

04-27-2009, 07:43 PM

I agree some things should never be released before a trial but if this was my town I would be more angry not knowing what was going on in this case..for one so many still think she may have done this alone but other things have came out such as the Tracy 60 and other things..I would want to know my child was safe and if it had anything to do with the investigation of Sandra they can not comment on it..gag orders yes on somethings I agree everyone deserve the right to a fair trial..

Hopefully the gag order isn't endangering any other children. I would hope LE wouldn't do anything to endanger anyone at all, but if I lived in Tracy I would be pretty freaked out especially about my kids.

cg007

04-27-2009, 08:03 PM

Go to the doctor ASAP.

I called my doctor today and they called in Tamiflu. They didn't indicate that they wanted to see me. I am concerned that I potentially exposed a lot of people. Do I need to be tested?

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 08:17 PM

I Totally Agree ! Would that be ITA (?) Because I do!

yes that would be a ITA I really do think she went back and moved her she was not at the first vigil but at the second one..just a big gut feeling I also got to thinking OMG here I go thinking if she did not tell them when she was killed and they stated before the autopsy was done she was not with us when 911 was even called how do they know that is it because she told them they found evidence of in one of those out buildings or they got someone on camera..I have no idea but IMO there is no way this witch did all this in 1hr as her GP said she was gone that long...:sneaky:

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 08:24 PM

Hopefully the gag order isn't endangering any other children. I would hope LE wouldn't do anything to endanger anyone at all, but if I lived in Tracy I would be pretty freaked out especially about my kids.

omg I have been reading comments on local media and there is alot of locals who are not happy right now..it is their town their community and I don't blame them I would also be upset...they seemed to find those 60 people passing porn around while searching for Sandra but they have not been commenting on that..2 have been arrested IIRC what about the others??I do not think any autopsy photos/report needs to be out but COD why not everyone was outraged along time ago even me way over here in IN..

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 08:28 PM

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 08:31 PM

I agree. I think she is going to be sent away. The biggest question in my mind is for how long and for what.

I don't think the insanity plea is going to be used. The defense has got to know that won't work. Using the "it was unintentional" defense...I believe...stands a better chance of working...although I personally believe that she was acting deliberately. If she testifies that she had been giving the neighbors kids drugs when they came over to her house to keep them from getting out of control while they played with her daughter, or just to make them generally more managable, I think there there is a good chance she could walk away from this with a manslaughter conviction, or second degree murder conviction and not murder with special circumstances. Then her public statements after she was arrested that it was "an accident" can be used in her defense.

The prosecution MIGHT be able to argue that this was still murder with special circumstances. But the defense would have a strong argument that it was not murder AT ALL. Even the dumping of Sandra's body could be laid off to "panic" or "irrational thinking" after Melissa realizes she's "accidentally" killed a child and worries that no one will believe her when she says it was unintenntional. Or just admit on stand that she knew giving drugs to children was illegal in the first place so she had felt she needed to cover up the crime by hiding the body.....but that she had NOT started out with the intention to kill Sandra.

But if the defense can convince enough people that it WAS an accident, i.e. she didn't purposely start off with the notion of killing Sandra but somehow Sandra had an allergic reaction or accidentally got an overdose, then her sentence might be far less. Even manslaughter. And deaths with "special circumstances", if I understand correctly, have got to be first degree murders.

Then, as I've said before, the issue of whether rape did or did not occur then becomes huge. If there was, the death wasn't an accident. If there wasn't, then Melissa Huckaby at least has a POTENTIAL chance of getting a far, far less conviction and sentence than she would receive for first degree murder with special circumstances.

Murder is not a accident IMO

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 09:06 PM

NG talking about Sandra's case don't know how much more she could have since the gag order

tv4me

04-27-2009, 09:29 PM

I read that Melissa has a cousin in prison for the same crime. Could she have done this in an attempt to "free" her cousin; much like the Hill Side Stranglers? That was the case where one of the girlfriends killed someone in hopes that would make the police think they had caught the wrong man and free him.

KittyMom

04-27-2009, 09:45 PM

I guess with a gag order in place we won't hear anything other than court dates until the trial?

KittyMom

04-27-2009, 09:49 PM

http://www.insidebayarea.com/trivalleyherald/localnews/ci_12227190

Covered with love: Woman donates casket blanket to family of slain Tracy girl

For the burial of Sandra, whose body was found dumped in a drained pond April 6, Simpson brought a product of her business: an ornate blanket of pink silk flowers and pink ribbons for the slain girl's casket.

This is so sweet. :crying:

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 09:53 PM

Dr. Perper finds it odd they have sealed the COD autopsy. I was waiting for him to say it was common in a case like this..

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 09:54 PM

http://www.insidebayarea.com/trivalleyherald/localnews/ci_12227190

Covered with love: Woman donates casket blanket to family of slain Tracy girl

This is so sweet. :crying:

how sweet seems alot are doing wonderful things for the family..we need more people like this

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 09:57 PM

Adalena935

04-27-2009, 11:11 PM

Yes it's been reported in Cancun.

http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2009/04/27/9270871-sun.html

http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2009/04/27/9270871-sun.html

US Swine Flu Victims Visited Cancun

Firefly

04-27-2009, 11:19 PM

ITA (it that means I totally agree) with your first paragraph above. But I am not sure that the defense wouldn't claim that "rape" aspect was also part of the "panic" and an impetuous attempt to make it look like someone else (a male) did this.

If there is some evidence of male participation, then that might be a good defense for her actually. They aren't looking for any other suspects though I thought...could be wrong.

oodi

04-27-2009, 11:27 PM

If there is some evidence of male participation, then that might be a good defense for her actually. They aren't looking for any other suspects though I thought...could be wrong.

The last I heard, there were no other suspects. Although if that has changed, I assume we would not hear about it due to the gag order.

Firefly

04-27-2009, 11:34 PM

Murder is not a accident IMO

Well...under the possible scenario I've laid out, MH would be alleging that she was only giving pills to kids who came to her house so they wouldn't "act out". And while Sandra was visiting, she got an overdose...by accident...and dies. (Say that MH was giving both her own child and Sandra some drugs in separate glasses to keep both of them calmed down and not make extra work for Melissa...and because Sandra had been outside and was thirsty she asks Melissa's daughter for her drink, drinks both of them, and overdoses.)

This is still murder from a legal standpoint. But there are levels of murder, and INTENT to murder is a big part of it. Giving the pills to her WITHOUT intent to murder would mean a different sentence and verdict altogether. Assuming the defense can convince a jury.

Firefly

04-27-2009, 11:47 PM

The last I heard, there were no other suspects. Although if that has changed, I assume we would not hear about it due to the gag order.

I think you're right. I hate that too because I personally believe that another person probably was involved. To move and dump the body if nothing else.

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 11:51 PM

Well...under the possible scenario I've laid out, MH would be alleging that she was only giving pills to kids who came to her house so they wouldn't "act out". And while Sandra was visiting, she got an overdose...by accident...and dies. (Say that MH was giving both her own child and Sandra some drugs in separate glasses to keep both of them calmed down and not make extra work for Melissa...and because Sandra had been outside and was thirsty she asks Melissa's daughter for her drink, drinks both of them, and overdoses.)

This is still murder from a legal standpoint. But there are levels of murder, and INTENT to murder is a big part of it. Giving the pills to her WITHOUT intent to murder would mean a different sentence and verdict altogether. Assuming the defense can convince a jury.

yeah it would be like some sort of manslaughter right? I am not sure what the charge would be if that was what happened..

aproudmom

04-27-2009, 11:53 PM

The last I heard, there were no other suspects. Although if that has changed, I assume we would not hear about it due to the gag order.

that is the last I heard also..but like you said with the gag order they can not comment.

Firefly

04-28-2009, 12:08 AM

yeah it would be like some sort of manslaughter right? I am not sure what the charge would be if that was what happened..

That link I posted about capital murder in California had this part about, and I'm paraphrasing, "if a child under 16 is involved, and dies, while a person is committing a felony, then they can be charged with murder with special circumstance."

Now, at least for me, that's when it gets tricky. Giving drugs to an underage person is illegal (overaged person too). It's a felony. But if this isn't murder then can it be capital murder? And if the prosecution has charged Melissa Huckaby with "murder with special circumstance, rape with a foreign object"...but there turns out not to be rape (which we don't know yet if there was or not...genital trauma is the word so far), then can the prosecutor come back and charge her with a different type of capital murder....or does he just have to go with what he presented at the start of her trial? Can he keep adding on new charges as the trial progresses, is what I mean. I don't *think* he can. So if the jury looks at things and says, "Nope. No rape", then can he turn around and say, "But ah ha! The victim was an underaged child given drugs..which is a felony....let me make this different capital murder charge and add it"? I don't think he can. But I don't know.

aproudmom

04-28-2009, 12:17 AM

That link I posted about capital murder in California had this part about, and I'm paraphrasing, "if a child under 16 is involved, and dies, while a person is committing a felony, then they can be charged with murder with special circumstance."

Now, at least for me, that's when it gets tricky. Giving drugs to an underage person is illegal (overaged person too). It's a felony. But if this isn't murder then can it be capital murder? And if the prosecution has charged Melissa Huckaby with "murder with special circumstance, rape with a foreign object"...but there turns out not to be rape (which we don't know yet if there was or not...genital trauma is the word so far), then can the prosecutor come back and charge her with a different type of capital murder....or does he just have to go with what he presented at the start of her trial? Can he keep adding on new charges as the trial progresses, is what I mean. I don't *think* he can. So if the jury looks at things and says, "Nope. No rape", then can he turn around and say, "But ah ha! The victim was an underaged child given drugs..which is a felony....let me make this different capital murder charge and add it"? I don't think he can. But I don't know.

yeah I looked up all the different charges the other night they are very confusing to me..lol..but I see what your saying..I for one would like to know if she in fact said it was a accident since that was reported..but we wont know that for some time I guess

VC2

04-28-2009, 12:19 AM

Dr. Perper finds it odd they have sealed the COD autopsy. I was waiting for him to say it was common in a case like this..

It is very odd, i have never heard of it being sealed like this. Sometimes the whole report is sealed but at least they give the public the cause of death.

It doesn't endanger a fair trial to know the COD, it also doesn't violate family privacy, for gods sake it will be part of the trial! The worst part of her reasoning though was "outrage of the community". That starts to infringe on freedom of the press and the publics right to know. the public does not need the government to protect them from facts that occur in their community, I am not suggesting that there shouldn't be a balance between that and a fair trial but when the reason is they might be outraged...it stinks imo.

Adalena935

04-28-2009, 12:21 AM

I found this article about using anti-viral drugs carefully.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-swine-drugs28-2009apr28,0,5101655.story

Use antiviral drugs carefully, health officials warn

As pharmacies brace for higher demand for Tamiflu and Relenza, experts warn that indiscriminate use could reduce the drugs' effectiveness.

Firefly

04-28-2009, 12:22 AM

I've put these in order of the code for murder in California. If I read this right, and more importantly, understand it (which is dubious...:laugh:)
then it seems like intent MUST be present to have murder with special circumstances. Murder in the first degree they seem to be calling it.

Quoting from the web:

187. (a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a
fetus, with malice aforethought.

188. Such malice may be express or implied. It is express when
there is manifested a deliberate intention unlawfully to take away
the life of a fellow creature. It is implied, when no considerable
provocation appears, or when the circumstances attending the killing
show an abandoned and malignant heart.
When it is shown that the killing resulted from the intentional
doing of an act with express or implied malice as defined above, no
other mental state need be shown to establish the mental state of
malice aforethought. Neither an awareness of the obligation to act
within the general body of laws regulating society nor acting despite
such awareness is included within the definition of malice.

190.2. (a) The penalty for a defendant who is found guilty of
murder in the first degree is death or imprisonment in the state
prison for life without the possibility of parole if one or more of
the following special circumstances has been found under Section
190.4 to be true:

(stuff deleted)

(17) The murder was committed while the defendant was engaged in,
or was an accomplice in, the commission of, attempted commission of,
or the immediate flight after committing, or attempting to commit,
the following felonies:
(A) Robbery in violation of Section 211 or 212.5.
(B) Kidnapping in violation of Section 207, 209, or 209.5.
(C) Rape in violation of Section 261.
(D) Sodomy in violation of Section 286.
(E) The performance of a lewd or lascivious act upon the person of
a child under the age of 14 years in violation of Section 288.
(F) Oral copulation in violation of Section 288a.

Firefly

04-28-2009, 12:24 AM

yeah I looked up all the different charges the other night they are very confusing to me..lol..but I see what your saying..I for one would like to know if she in fact said it was a accident since that was reported..but we wont know that for some time I guess

Oh? Is there a place to look at the charges against her? I have never seen a list of them.

aproudmom

04-28-2009, 12:55 AM

aproudmom

04-28-2009, 12:57 AM

Oh? Is there a place to look at the charges against her? I have never seen a list of them.

oh you havent yeah there is I can see if I can find it..if you havent seen it cause I started putting in the penal codes last night just to see what each thing meant..

aproudmom

04-28-2009, 01:07 AM

Oh? Is there a place to look at the charges against her? I have never seen a list of them.

http://online.recordnet.com/projects/cantu/huckabycomplaint.pdf
I think this is it let me know if not..I got bored and started putting in the penal codes to see what each one meant..since the gag order I have to try to do something..lol..then the other night I started looking at all the CA charges even the ones she is not charged with. like I said I was just bored and started looking at everything..

this is the main site has alot on it..
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090414/A_NEWS/90414009/-1/A_SPECIAL0263

aproudmom

04-28-2009, 01:17 AM

Oh? Is there a place to look at the charges against her? I have never seen a list of them.

not sure if you read all of the penal codes this one is for
Foreign object this was the one I had a hard time reading about..:crying:
California Penal Code Section 289
http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/289.html

aproudmom

04-28-2009, 03:08 AM

They have firmly stated that she acted on her own and I fail to believe that she is the sort who would protect anyone. In one of the arson cases, she let someone else go to jail.

IF there were to be another arrest, we would learn of it right away.

We don't know how long she was actually gone from the house where she lived and the suitcase had wheels. She didn't need a lot of time but she may have stashed the body temporarily until night fall....although the road on which the body was discovered ( in the dry pond ) isn't heavily traveled.

I think she dumped her later that night and I think she dumped her alone it was not real far off the road..jmo

Snoopy

04-28-2009, 03:37 AM

Trial could be moved:

http://kfi640.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=153218&article=5379510

Snoopy

04-28-2009, 04:02 AM

Despite chaos, Tracy church to remain open

http://www.insidebayarea.com/trivalleyherald/localnews/ci_12240467?source=rss

aproudmom

04-28-2009, 05:27 AM

Trial could be moved:

http://kfi640.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=153218&article=5379510

thanks for the links Snoopy

aproudmom

04-28-2009, 05:33 AM

:sad:video

http://kfi640.com/cc-common/mediaplayer/player.html?redir=yes&mps=kfinews.php&mid=http://a1802.v249356.c24935.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1802/24935/v0001/cchannel.download.akamai.com/24935/616/richmedia/Tracy_Tour.wmv?CCOMRRMID=28097434&CPROG=RICHMEDIA&MARKET=LOSANGELES-CA&NG_FORMAT=talk&NG_ID=kfi640am&OR_NEWSFORMAT=&OWNER=616&SERVER_NAME=www.kfiam640.com&SITE_ID=616&STATION_ID=KFI-AM&TRACK=Tracy_tour

aproudmom

04-28-2009, 08:41 AM

Despite chaos, Tracy church to remain open

http://www.insidebayarea.com/trivalleyherald/localnews/ci_12240467?source=rss

does not surprise me one bit..hope everytime they walk in there they think a child could have lost her life in that church.

TXbeaver

04-28-2009, 09:37 AM

does not surprise me one bit..hope everytime they walk in there they think a child could have lost her life in that church.

I know a lot of ppl here support the grandfather, but I can't ditch a creepy vibe I get from him. He has not been accused of anything, so I feel bad about this. It's a gut feeling more than anything else. He portrays himself as a "godly" man, but so did all those Catholic priests who hid behind their robes to molest children. They were supported by men higher up in the church and many of their parishioners for a very long time--decades--because of the mistaken belief that someone who holds that kind of position has a special connection with God and therefore could not be capable of the heinous acts it turns out they commited. Sometimes I wonder if child molesters gravitate to positions of authority over people, esp. children, where they would have easy access and not be questioned.

TXbeaver

04-28-2009, 09:39 AM

At any rate, I feel sure that someone messed with MH when she was a child.

lunchlady

04-28-2009, 09:59 AM

New thread for Sandra.
Should we switch to longer time periods for the threads since the gag order means less info to report?

kitty1182

04-28-2009, 10:37 AM

Good morning..Might be a good idea since we won't be finding out much..
:smile:

GentleBreeze

04-28-2009, 10:38 AM

I am bringing Firefly's post over from yesterday's thread.

Posted by Firefly:
I agree. I think she is going to be sent away. The biggest question in my mind is for how long and for what.

I don't think the insanity plea is going to be used. The defense has got to know that won't work. Using the "it was unintentional" defense...I believe...stands a better chance of working...although I personally believe that she was acting deliberately. If she testifies that she had been giving the neighbors kids drugs when they came over to her house to keep them from getting out of control while they played with her daughter, or just to make them generally more managable, I think there there is a good chance she could walk away from this with a manslaughter conviction, or second degree murder conviction and not murder with special circumstances. Then her public statements after she was arrested that it was "an accident" can be used in her defense.

The prosecution MIGHT be able to argue that this was still murder with special circumstances. But the defense would have a strong argument that it was not murder AT ALL. Even the dumping of Sandra's body could be laid off to "panic" or "irrational thinking" after Melissa realizes she's "accidentally" killed a child and worries that no one will believe her when she says it was unintentional. Or just admit on stand that she knew giving drugs to children was illegal in the first place so she had felt she needed to cover up the crime by hiding the body.....but that she had NOT started out with the intention to kill Sandra.

But if the defense can convince enough people that it WAS an accident, i.e. she didn't purposely start off with the notion of killing Sandra but somehow Sandra had an allergic reaction or accidentally got an overdose, then her sentence might be far less. Even manslaughter. And deaths with "special circumstances", if I understand correctly, have got to be first degree murders.

Then, as I've said before, the issue of whether rape did or did not occur then becomes huge. If there was, the death wasn't an accident. If there wasn't, then Melissa Huckaby at least has a POTENTIAL chance of getting a far, far less conviction and sentence than she would receive for first degree murder with special circumstances.
**************************************************

I just cannot see the defense using the accidental defense in this case. Imo, the only defense they really have is some type of insanity or diminished capacity if that is a legal defense in CL. And imo, it isnt going to work but they have to have a defense of some kind.

The reason that they will not use the accident defense imo, it still does not remove other felonies. Sandra's mother gave no one permission to take Sandra from the MHP. She will testify to that fact, imo. So therefore the kidnapping is still very much at the front and center of this case. And if she accidentally killed her? How did she accidentally kill her? Overdosing her with drugs she legally had no right to give her is not an accident. Accidentally when in the commission of the rape with a foreign object? How can that be considered an accident when it is a felony crime to do so?

She is charged with felony murder, right? Felony murder is a murder that happened while in the commission of another felony or felonies.

So I just don't see how she can maneuver around all of the felonies and get lesser time or lesser degrees.

I do think she will be convicted on all of the top charges. The police seem to be very confident with the evidence they have that Sandra was raped with a foreign object.

Compile that with the other felonies and I don't think she has a chance unless she pleads out and I am not sure the DA will plea this case. Imo, the only reason he would even consider it if it would save the Cantu-Chavez family from having to go through a trial and hearing how their daughter was murdered, raped and thrown away.

imo

SoftHeart

04-28-2009, 11:49 AM

Re: the Posting by Firefly as reposted above.

Firefly - That was well thought out and I agree with pretty much everything you've said. And if she makes a plea deal, I'm afraid we may never find out exactly what happened or why. After learning so much about this case, I really would like to know the what and why answers. (I know it's selfish) -- At the very least, I hope Huckaby gets whatever she deserves if she is guilty of these crimes.

darcie

04-28-2009, 01:09 PM

I didn't see this posted. Thought I would share.

Despite the chaos, Tracy church will remain open

http://www.insidebayarea.com/argus/localnews/ci_12240467

Firefly

04-28-2009, 01:51 PM

I just cannot see the defense using the accidental defense in this case. Imo, the only defense they really have is some type of insanity or diminished capacity if that is a legal defense in CL. And imo, it isnt going to work but they have to have a defense of some kind.

The reason that they will not use the accident defense imo, it still does not remove other felonies. Sandra's mother gave no one permission to take Sandra from the MHP. She will testify to that fact, imo. So therefore the kidnapping is still very much at the front and center of this case. And if she accidentally killed her? How did she accidentally kill her? Overdosing her with drugs she legally had no right to give her is not an accident. Accidentally when in the commission of the rape with a foreign object? How can that be considered an accident when it is a felony crime to do so?

She is charged with felony murder, right? Felony murder is a murder that happened while in the commission of another felony or felonies.

So I just don't see how she can maneuver around all of the felonies and get lesser time or lesser degrees.

I do think she will be convicted on all of the top charges. The police seem to be very confident with the evidence they have that Sandra was raped with a foreign object.

Compile that with the other felonies and I don't think she has a chance unless she pleads out and I am not sure the DA will plea this case. Imo, the only reason he would even consider it if it would save the Cantu-Chavez family from having to go through a trial and hearing how their daughter was murdered, raped and thrown away.

imo

I think, technically, the police have never even filed a missing person's report on the child from January. So there isn't even an ACCUSATION of kidnapping against her. (One wonders why not.) In order for this to be brought up in Sandra's trial as supporting evidence of wrongdoing, I think it would have to have been acted on by the police. I'm not sure of that though.

The defense I would use if I was Melissa Huckaby would be to say, in regard to the kidnapping of the child in January..."No, I had permission from the mother. She just doesn't remember. She's forgetful." and then maybe she raise her hand to her mouth like she's drinking from a bottle, implying that the mother is an alcoholic. This would actually gel with the few facts we have about this incident. The policemen had reported they smelled alcohol on her breath. So MH could just argue that this woman had given permission on a previous day...the previous weekend maybe...but was drunk at the time and just didn't remember giving it. Then she would admit to drugging the child when they went to the park , not with the intention of committing a molestation but just to "keep her from running around so much" or some such statement.

And another strong point for the defense about that incident would be to show that...although the hospital presumably searched the child up and down for signs...MH was never charged for sexual assault of this child. One would presume this means no evidence was found by the hospital staff. So the defense can say, "See? Our client isn't out to molest anyone....however...she does have this one problem...serial drugging to keep kids in her care passive. Which we admit is illegal." (This all falls apart too if the toxicology report comes back with a huge finding of drugs. The the prosecution can say, "What were you trying do Ms. Huckaby....knock out an elephant? There's the equivalent of 50 Valiums on these results! There's no WAY you didn't know this would kill her!")

So yes, she would have to admit to giving drugs to children. Which is a felony. But if you are the defense, and you KNOW that your client is looking at the death penalty, then trying to get her totally free...with the evidence against her...is unrealistic. So set smaller goals. Instead of trying to get her to walk free...try to get her a lesser sentence. Instead of "Death" or "Life in Prison"...try to get "15 years" or "20 years".

After looking at the statute on capital murder, I'm not sure that giving drugs to a child who then dies is actually "murder with special circumstances". Most of those are preceded by the phrase "malice aforethought" or with the phrase, "first degree murder". Implying that this has to be an actual MURDER WITH INTENT in order to be charged under these, and not as the result of an accident. Giving the children the drugs would be no accident. That would be deliberate. But if her goal in giving them was to keep them calm...and not to kill them...then your actions MAY not show deliberate intent. So now her actions may drop to manslaughter.

In addition to a massive toxicology finding of drugs, the rape also becomes a killer for her defense. Dumping the body....she just panicked. Giving drugs to the kids...illegal, immoral, stupid, and she will and should be punished for it...but not necessarily a sign that she was out to do evil. But the rape.....that's the nail in her coffin if it occurred. You can't argue that one away as being "accidental". IF it happened....she's toast. So THAT, in my opinion, becomes the cornerstone of the prosecutions charges. The other stuff could be explained away. That one can't. By no means can it.

The police may be very confident of this charge of rape. They very likely have access to evidence that I don't have. And the prosecutor DID level the charge. However...going by what we've seen of MH's history...she's, admittedly, got issues. Arson maybe. Depression. Some petty theft. I'd even argue drugging of the first child is provable because of the elevated drug readings the hospital found. But..so far...no mass gatherings of ex-church members yelling about the time they had to take little Chrissy or Johnny Jr. to the hospital because Melissa Huckaby had assaulted them. That's not good for the prosecution. It's not insurmountable if they have other evidence, but if she was a registered sex offender with a three time history of cases against kids...this would be easy.

So yes, she'd have to admit to some illegal behavior, and that illegal behavior would have led to the death of a child, but it might not be first degree murder either...if the evidence can at least be construed to show she wasn't acting with intent. And at the moment...for her...that's probably the best deal she can hope for.

It really all comes down to what evidence did they find in that suitcase and around the neighborhood.

aproudmom

04-28-2009, 03:02 PM

Good Afternoon everyone

aproudmom

04-28-2009, 03:22 PM

I know a lot of ppl here support the grandfather, but I can't ditch a creepy vibe I get from him. He has not been accused of anything, so I feel bad about this. It's a gut feeling more than anything else. He portrays himself as a "godly" man, but so did all those Catholic priests who hid behind their robes to molest children. They were supported by men higher up in the church and many of their parishioners for a very long time--decades--because of the mistaken belief that someone who holds that kind of position has a special connection with God and therefore could not be capable of the heinous acts it turns out they committed. Sometimes I wonder if child molesters gravitate to positions of authority over people, esp. children, where they would have easy access and not be questioned.

I am not sure how I feel about him for one he is a Pastor and he never went to talk to the family of someone who's daughter played with his GGD and they say they knew her since she was born and came to their home everyday and then he makes statements like when this is all over things will come out..or something to that fact..he held church and allowed media in the church on Easter Sunday to show they had nothing to hide but umm did not allow them in the SS room/Kitchen area..where is all his members of his church? why is it that only his BIL talks so wonderful about him..why does he choose not to associate with the other Pastors in his community? I don't care if he knew what happened or if he did not know..he IMO is not the kind of Pastor I would ever support and continue to worship with in a gloomy dark Church that looks like a funeral parlor and a child was more than likely killed in a horrible way and stuffed in a luggage bag..so that just about sums it up on how I feel about their actions or lack of them...all JMO and another thing I don't know if he ever did anything but these days we see a lot of pastors,teacher,doctors,coaches, who are molesting child for years so it is time to open eyes to this not saying he is one of them but just because you are a Pastor or a Teacher does not mean you have never committed a crime against children..ALL JMO

GentleBreeze

04-28-2009, 03:46 PM

Thank you, FIrefly, for your well thought out response.

I do not believe under the felony murder rule there has to be intent to kill or premeditation. From what I understand one is guilty of felony murder if a person was killed while the defendant was in the commission of another felony. Of course all charges committed can also be premeditated one. The kidnapping of Sandra imo, which is a felony could result in LWOP on that conviction alone.

Now I guess she could say that she accidentally overdosed Sandra but logical people are going to think "ok but what was your purpose for kidnapping and giving a child drugs anyway? That right there opens the minds of jurors to think her sole purpose must have been so she could molest and rape her with a foreign object. What other reason could it be? That also opens up the theory for the DA to put forth that Sandra either died from severe genital trauma or MH killed her knowing she could not let anyone know what she had done or what has happened to Sandra.

imo

oodi

04-28-2009, 04:23 PM

I'm soooooooooooo confused! :crying:

Which thread are we using? :huh:

lunchlady

04-28-2009, 05:45 PM

I'm soooooooooooo confused! :crying:

Which thread are we using? :huh:

Yesterday's thread seems to have been changed to include today's date, so it's probably best to collapse this thread into that one. Perhaps a frequent poster or a moderator can decide what to do tomorrow?

GentleBreeze

04-28-2009, 07:01 PM

At any rate, I feel sure that someone messed with MH when she was a child.

I am not so sure if I believe that or not. Only 15-25% of female sexual offenders were abused as children.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if she isn't one of the 15-25%. She may be more in the majority who weren't abused rather than those who were abused.

imo

nana6

04-28-2009, 09:05 PM

GentleBreeze

04-28-2009, 09:58 PM

It is very odd, i have never heard of it being sealed like this. Sometimes the whole report is sealed but at least they give the public the cause of death.

It doesn't endanger a fair trial to know the COD, it also doesn't violate family privacy, for gods sake it will be part of the trial! The worst part of her reasoning though was "outrage of the community". That starts to infringe on freedom of the press and the publics right to know. the public does not need the government to protect them from facts that occur in their community, I am not suggesting that there shouldn't be a balance between that and a fair trial but when the reason is they might be outraged...it stinks imo.

They can technically stall on COD even if they have known it very early on, which I think they did. The ME will not even finish his official written report until the toxicology tests results come back and the tissue sample results done. They may think that the amount of drugs found, if any, also was a contributing factor.

I do not think that the Judge is wanting so much to protect the public from this knowledge but I do think she is being very careful that she does not release any information that would be so prejudicial to the defendant that it would almost be impossible to insure she gets a fair trial. That is when the public's right to know goes out the window and the defendant's rights come in. I remember Laci and Conner's autopsy reports were sealed before the trial commenced.

A COD in this case could very well cause more outrage and backlash against the defendant. I think the COD will be extremely difficult for people to consider. So in this particular case, I think the Judge made the absolute correct decision, especially since an arraignment hasn't even come to pass yet.

imo

GentleBreeze

04-28-2009, 10:04 PM

Since we seem to have duplicate threads going for some reason, I am bringing my post over from the other thread.

Quote: GentleBreeze

Thank you, FIrefly, for your well thought out response.

I do not believe under the felony murder rule there has to be intent to kill or premeditation. From what I understand one is guilty of felony murder if a person was killed while the defendant was in the commission of another felony. Of course all charges committed can also be premeditated ones. The kidnapping of Sandra imo, which is a felony could result in LWOP on that conviction alone.

Now I guess she could say that she accidentally overdosed Sandra but logical people are going to think "ok but what was your purpose for kidnapping and giving a child drugs anyway? That right there opens the minds of jurors to think her sole purpose must have been so she could molest and rape her with a foreign object. What other reason could it be? That also opens up the theory for the DA to put forth that Sandra either died from severe genital trauma or MH killed her knowing she could not let anyone know what she had done or what has happened to Sandra.

imo

aproudmom

04-28-2009, 10:07 PM

oh I hate not to have any new news on little Sandra..let us not forget her...:crying:

RIP SWEET CHILD:rose:

dinojen

04-29-2009, 10:55 AM

By The Record
April 28, 2009 7:20 PM

STOCKTON – A judge who last week sealed the reports from 8-year-old Sandra Cantu’s autopsy today sealed a moot prosecution motion opposing the girl’s exhumation, saying the Cantu family’s privacy rights outweigh the public’s need for the information.

San Joaquin County Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus said she also wants to ensure a fair trial for prosecutors and Sandra’s accused killer, Melissa Huckaby. Lofthus filed the motion on her own without a hearing before attorneys.

“The detailed information contained within the pleading and its attachments are inextricably intertwined with prejudicial information,” Lofthus wrote.

Lofthus has also imposed a gag order, preventing attorneys, law enforcement and relatives of Sandra or Huckaby from talking publicly about the case. Huckaby is expected back in court May 22.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090428/A_NEWS/90428010

dinojen

04-29-2009, 10:59 AM

Updated again this morning...

John Schick, a Stockton attorney and instructor at Humphreys College Laurence Drivon School of Law, said it is highly unusual for a judge to seal a document independently in the interest of a victim's family.

"A unilateral ruling like this without the opportunity for parties in the case to have their say is unusual and perhaps improper," he said, adding that the attorneys usually make such request. "Why do we have public trials?"

Last week, on her first full day as the judge assigned to Huckaby's case, Lofthus imposed a gag order, preventing attorneys, law enforcement and relatives of Sandra or Huckaby from talking publicly about the case.

Ruth Jones, an instructor at University of the Pacific McGeorge School of Law in Sacramento and a former prosecutor, said the gag order is an important tool to keep attorneys from giving their opinions in public, where jurors might hear.

"In contrast, the sealing of documents moves closer to private proceedings," she said. "Our judicial system functions best when it is public."

Lofthus did not say it, but she seems to want to protect Sandra's family from seeing gruesome autopsy details, Jones said.

"If it's a high-profile case, those gruesome details will eventually become public if there's a trial," Jones said. "We as a society have a right to see the evidence."

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090429/A_NEWS/904290308

For Gabriel

04-29-2009, 11:04 AM

Thinking of lil Sandra. Had to step away for a while and enjoy the blessings of my children and enjoy every moment with them. Life is to fleeting and I did not want to miss a moment.....

Poochie Pie

04-29-2009, 12:01 PM

Thinking of lil Sandra. Had to step away for a while and enjoy the blessings of my children and enjoy every moment with them. Life is to fleeting and I did not want to miss a moment..... Hi there For Gabriel... What sweet sentiments..!! Reminds of the saying "tomorrow is promised to no one"... I'm glad you have been enjoying your children... The tragic fact that little Sandra's loved ones will never have that priviledge again is so heartbreaking... You are correct... Life IS so fleeting..!! Have a great day.. :smile:

Poochie

aproudmom

04-29-2009, 05:39 PM

Thinking of lil Sandra. Had to step away for a while and enjoy the blessings of my children and enjoy every moment with them. Life is to fleeting and I did not want to miss a moment.....

I agree we all have to at times..I kinda miss all the posters and no news we don't have anything to go on..we can only call some one a EVIL MONSTER so many times...lol..the gag order has halted any information..but guess she is the judge and is thinking of her trial and the family...so what can ya do..

aproudmom

04-29-2009, 05:42 PM

aproudmom

04-29-2009, 05:49 PM

Updated again this morning...

Lofthus did not say it, but she seems to want to protect Sandra's family from seeing gruesome autopsy details, Jones said.

"If it's a high-profile case, those gruesome details will eventually become public if there's a trial," Jones said. "We as a society have a right to see the evidence."

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090429/A_NEWS/904290308

my bolding
<snipped>

Hi dino miss my latte every morning:tonguewag:
I am sure the family knows a lot already I am sure not everything but what they have already had to hear and see is horrible so they are the ones I care about..she will get her day in court..and sure wish I could be there..:angry:

oodi

04-29-2009, 06:14 PM

my bolding
<snipped>

Hi dino miss my latte every morning:tonguewag:
I am sure the family knows a lot already I am sure not everything but what they have already had to hear and see is horrible so they are the ones I care about..she will get her day in court..and sure wish I could be there..:angry:

The family may already have the death certificate, or will have it before too much longer. The coroner cannot withhold it from them indefinitely. If they had any kind of life insurance on Sandra, for example, the family will need to submit a copy of it to collect.

Themis

04-30-2009, 06:05 AM

I agree we all have to at times..I kinda miss all the posters and no news we don't have anything to go on..we can only call some one a EVIL MONSTER so many times...lol..the gag order has halted any information..but guess she is the judge and is thinking of her trial and the family...so what can ya do..
Good points, AProudMom, which I bolded.
I am also thinking Judge Loftus is trying her judicial best to ensure there is not a COV.
It has been reported that there may be a COV to Los Angeles but that comes with a huge additonal cost. There is not a county in California who does not have major budget problems! [JMO * Themis]

dinojen

04-30-2009, 09:56 AM

my bolding
<snipped>

Hi dino miss my latte every morning
I am sure the family knows a lot already I am sure not everything but what they have already had to hear and see is horrible so they are the ones I care about..she will get her day in court..and sure wish I could be there..:angry:

Latte on it's way in about 20 mins... heading that way shortly. Will put it in the mikey for you.. ya want extra whip?

Bean counters are gone out of my office thank god.. now I can get back to looking for info..:thumbsup: God I hate audits.

Been looking around and haven't seen much being reported, both cases out of Tracy are really being kept silent.. no info, no family members speaking.. they are zipped up tight. Probably a good thing.

Another poster mentioned about COV.. you know CA is in such bad shape financially.. all counties are making major cuts.. so moving this case to as far away as LA is just so costly and I don't think it would make any difference in filling a jury box, everyone has heard about this case. I don't think it will be moved. Might try and see how many times Behar and his co PD have asked for COV.

Be back with your latte in a bit.. gotta get ready for my daily fun in the nut house..better known as my job.

OT...Just heard on the news this morning one of the refineries that our guys work at had a guy missing for over 24 hours... they finally found him this morning dead in a tank.. now why did no one know where he was... boy OSHA is going to be in that place today bigger than you know what... someone screwed up... no one is to go alone into a tank or without someone aware you are in there. Guy had worked for Shell for 20 years... feel bad for his family...:sad: Weird..they all wear radios too.. really odd.

dinojen

04-30-2009, 02:21 PM

I'm not going to say this right, so bear with me. I hope the reason for her actions are that she was abused. Not that I want her to have been abused(see what I mean?), I just can't imagine anyone being that horrible without a reason, not that I'm excusing her actions. Anybody understand what I'm trying to say? I guess it's that I cannot understand pure evil with no cause.

I understand what you mean. Not justifying what MH did, but the possibility of her also being abused as a child could be an explanation for her actions (not that it makes what she is accused of and less horrible)

I think she might of lead a very troubled life that possibly didn't start till her late teens and maybe that's why no one in her immediate family saw it coming..:confused:

Sounds like from what we know about her everything was good till her last years in high school and after that.. Guess we will hear more eventually, but sure looks like everyone including ex hubby has zipped their lips.

GentleBreeze

04-30-2009, 08:41 PM

I too doubt she was ever abused but she will probably make up another wild tale about it...like the police rapes and blaming the police for taking so long to find Sandra and blaming her roomie for starting those fires...she takes no responsibility for anything.

The cause of death and autopsy report will of course be revealed at the trial.

I really doubt it too, Foxglove. I think for some it may be easier to digest if they think she was abused as a child or has some type of insanity. However, I believe none of this. I do very much believe that sexual female predators are just spawned by their own deviant thoughts just like male predators are.

The majority of female and male sexual offenders did not endure abuse as a child. Their twisted perversions does not have to be a link to the past.

And I truly believe that society unknowingly has protected the female predator by assuming a female is always trustworthy when they are among our children and they are the ones who have more easy access without it being questioned.

I hope from this case that society and psychological experts will change their old way of thinking about these predators, both male and female. To not do so is abandoning the abused children in our country that already find it extremely hard to come forth to tell someone what is/has happened to them.

Right now, there is such a shameful glaring difference in how female pedophiles are seen and treated in our justice system versus male pedophiles. The females prey upon young children yet they rarely do any time for it at all. We must define our lines more clearly and give equal punishment for equal crimes.

If our children are led to believe that no one will believe them because their predator is a female then society is leaving these scarred children to deal with their abuse on their own and another female predator will get away unscathed to continue victimizing other children.

So I hope that the time has come when the female predator can no longer hide behind "motherhood" or appearing to be meek, trustworthy, endearing and all the while ingratiating themselves into our children's lives with full intentions of robbing them of their innocence.

imo

GentleBreeze

04-30-2009, 10:00 PM

Hi Everybody,

Just checking in to see if there is any news on this case. I know there is a gag order and that is going to stop any flow of information. I believe the judge does know exactly what she is doing. Frankly I do not know how the family is dealing with all of this. Just having a child die would be hard enough to deal with but under the circumstances we have heard about this case I just don't see how they can even function.
On the issue of MH being abused as a child, I do not for one minute believe this would excuse her behavior. There are many people who were sexually and physically abused as children and not many would have escalated to this kind of behavior. Most victims will do more damage to themselves then other people. I know we hear all the times about defendants blaming their actions on child abuse, but to me that is just an excuse to try and get away with what they have done.
Nobody who abuses or kills another deserves to get off without punishment. I believe each case should be judged on its own merits, but having been abused as a child I had to pick myself up by my boot straps and deal with my past. I was tired of hurting and knew I had to do something to get help or else I could have committed suicide.
Once a person comes close to being an adult they have to decide for themselves to continue on the path they are on or change the way they deal with things.
I believe MH is exactly where she needs to be. The public needs the protection from her and what she is capable of doing if indeed she did this all on her own. There are so many things with this case that are off to me and I cannot explain why I feel the way I do but it is just an uneasy feeling I have.
Have we ever heard of any abuse being directed at her daughter? That is something that I think should be looked at. A person just does not start abusing other children, there has to be a history somewhere.

Dino, I am so sorry to hear about the worker that died. My prayers go with his family.

jmoo

Imo, this cannot be the triggering factor to explain away why a female becomes a sexual predator. Iirc,in our country 6 out of 10 females are abused and 4 out of 10 males. Although I think the stats are flawed when it comes to the males because a male is the least likely to tell or report sexual abuse. So many of them go unrecorded and unreported.

If that was the criteria to becoming a pedophile who preys on children then the millions of children who suffered from the same types of abuse would become child predators and that simply is not the case by a long shot. The ones that does this most often were NOT abused in their childhood.

And just because a minority of them were abused as a child doesn't mean this is what make them do these despicable acts. I don't think what may or may not have happened in their past is a key to unlocking and understanding why these monsters do what they do. It is just the adult choice each one of them made and all people of adult ages have their own choices to pick from in life. They chose the side of perversion and lust against vulnerable children.

I think it is much more about controlling a vulnerable naive child. Imo, it is the sickening game they like to play, enticing their victim like a moth to a flame into their fold so they can release their sickening fantasies and desires upon the child. I really see no difference in male pedophiles than female pedophiles. They both entice, they both groom their victims, they both appear to be sweet, unassuming and both gain the trust of the child victim and ingratiate themselves into the life of the child and they both can be vicious and sadistic while they are committing sexual acts against a child.

I just read a link where it said that men are 10 times more likely to contemplate suicide than a female if they were sexually abused. Imo, that is because there is no support system for them. Males don't talk to other males about being abused. People in general tend not see boys as victims if they were sexually abused by a female and the male blames themselves and thinks something must be wrong with them since society in general promotes that if a boy is sexually abused by a woman he should consider himself, lucky.:sad:

It did give me some comfort though when in my own state a school teacher sexually abused a 9 year old boy and did so right on the school campus. She plead her case down and they gave her 25 years.

I still think that MH targeted the 7 year old at first but when the mother got the police involved MH backed up and Sandra then became the next targeted victim.

imo

I

aproudmom

05-01-2009, 05:48 AM

I see nothing new on Tracy's Angel..does not surprise me with the gag order...

BTW did any of you see the story of the 18 month old killed by her mother guess I missed it..happened on the 18th or march and I was on here all the time..anyway another Monster Mom:cursing:

aproudmom

05-01-2009, 05:50 AM

some people have hard time talking about the abuse they experienced...

A normal person yes I agree but this witch was all about getting attention so I am not so sure she would hide anything...jmo

aproudmom

05-01-2009, 06:02 AM

Latte on it's way in about 20 mins... heading that way shortly. Will put it in the mikey for you.. ya want extra whip?

Bean counters are gone out of my office thank god.. now I can get back to looking for info..:thumbsup: God I hate audits.

Been looking around and haven't seen much being reported, both cases out of Tracy are really being kept silent.. no info, no family members speaking.. they are zipped up tight. Probably a good thing.

Another poster mentioned about COV.. you know CA is in such bad shape financially.. all counties are making major cuts.. so moving this case to as far away as LA is just so costly and I don't think it would make any difference in filling a jury box, everyone has heard about this case. I don't think it will be moved. Might try and see how many times Behar and his co PD have asked for COV.

Be back with your latte in a bit.. gotta get ready for my daily fun in the nut house..better known as my job.

OT...Just heard on the news this morning one of the refineries that our guys work at had a guy missing for over 24 hours... they finally found him this morning dead in a tank.. now why did no one know where he was... boy OSHA is going to be in that place today bigger than you know what... someone screwed up... no one is to go alone into a tank or without someone aware you are in there. Guy had worked for Shell for 20 years... feel bad for his family...:sad: Weird..they all wear radios too.. really odd.

hi dino sorry missed my latte...lol.so this guy died in a tank what kind of tank omg he had a radio you think perhaps he had a heart attack or something..so sad..dino did you hear about this Emma from CA that was murdered by her mother..I never saw it but it was a week before Sandra went missing shocked I missed it..she is or was such a little doll:crying: