Apr. 25 & 26th

[ginky41]

and it's on this site ginky41?


Yep, let me see if I can find an example for you. Standby...

[MoonFlwr]

:thumbup: Bravo, Kinetic! It worked!

If I were friends with Tara, I'd advise her that she is going to make a fool of herself if she doesn't consider her comments to the media more carefully!

[Lovethechild]

I wonder WHO that lady is standing behind Tara? Anyone? :confused:

[n/t]

Tori will be featured tonight on AMW

http://www.amw.com/missing_children/brief.cfm?id=64826

Tori :rose:

[n/t]

Hi all!!
GMWTV has posted a half hour segment of Tori's disappearance, maps and all explaining distance and how long it takes to travel to and from Tori's school to where she lives.

Description
Segment 1 in its entirety, as telecast on Rogers TV, Thursday, April 23, 2009, during a special half-hour episode featuring the case of Missing 8 year old Victoria (Tori) Stafford from Woodstock, O...

Seg 1 Special about Tori - GTA's Most Wanted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2389G5xOaUI

Thanks so much for the link!

[n/t]

Greetings'
Nen'

I don't think the police are stupid. I just think they don't' have evidence. I do believe, if they were to put pressure on Tori's mother, I'm talking about backing her into a coroner and make her tell some truths. The truth might be told then' IMO'

Moonlite

Or not. She'll get a lawyer.

I'd like to know why Ronald hasn't been paying child support? Does he work? Where was he on the day Tori disappeared? I read reports that he's gone back to school to get his grade 12 but ummm he has 2 kids to support! Is it day or night school?

I think Ronald should also be looked at, imo!

[days of yore]

Does anyone know the name of the 'uncle' that Tori was supposed to go to after school?

[Maelstrom5]

Or not. She'll get a lawyer.

I'd like to know why Ronald hasn't been paying child support? Does he work? Where was he on the day Tori disappeared? I read reports that he's gone back to school to get his grade 12 but ummm he has 2 kids to support! Is it day or night school?

I think Ronald should also be looked at, imo!

I agree, no one has been eliminated as a person of interest yet. I think the reason Ronald has not been subjected to the same type of scrutiny as Tara has is because he has come across as an honest person, one who is willing to admit his shortcomings. His statements have the ring of truth to them. His answers, feelings, are more in line with how we feel we would respond if placed in his situation. Tara has not said anything that would cause a "Eureka" moment, but her actions, statements, just seem off.

We should note that the OPP is completely aware of the public scrutiny Tara is going through and they have had a number of opportunities to state "At this time, Tara is not a person of interest" They have chosen not to do so.

[n/t]

Does anyone know the name of the 'uncle' that Tori was supposed to go to after school?

I don't think his name was ever mentioned. We don't even know if it was an uncle on mom's side or dad's side. The uncle story was never talked about again after that inital story. According to mom's latest version, Victoria was supposed to be going home after school to watch a movie with 2 of her friends.

[n/t]

I agree, no one has been eliminated as a person of interest yet. I think the reason Ronald has not been subjected to the same type of scrutiny as Tara has is because he has come across as an honest person, one who is willing to admit his shortcomings. His statements have the ring of truth to them. His answers, feelings, are more in line with how we feel we would respond if placed in his situation. Tara has not said anything that would cause a "Eureka" moment, but her actions, statements, just seem off.

We should note that the OPP is completely aware of the public scrutiny Tara is going through and they have had a number of opportunities to state "At this time, Tara is not a person of interest" They have chosen not to do so.

I agree. In the last PC, when they were asked about the sketch resembling mom, they could've said something to that effect but they did NOT.

[Hope4Tori]

Or not. She'll get a lawyer.

I'd like to know why Ronald hasn't been paying child support? Does he work? Where was he on the day Tori disappeared? I read reports that he's gone back to school to get his grade 12 but ummm he has 2 kids to support! Is it day or night school?

I think Ronald should also be looked at, imo!

Morning n/t:)

I think there is way too much focus on the mother. People have to consider all possibilities - and the possibilities are endless . . . and endlessly frustrating. There are so many missing FACTS in this case and all any of us have to go on is speculation. Let's hope that the police have information and evidence that will lead to an answer - soon!

I hope there will be a happy ending for Tori and both families!:)

[Kip]

I don't think his name was ever mentioned. We don't even know if it was an uncle on mom's side or dad's side. The uncle story was never talked about again after that inital story. According to mom's latest version, Victoria was supposed to be going home after school to watch a movie with 2 of her friends.

Yes, we know absolutely nothing about this uncle. Or if he even exists, for that matter.

None of these accounts of what Tori was supposed to do after school adds up. And, the fact, that there is more than one version of what happened is troubling.

If Tori was supposed to go to her uncle's, surely the press would have found and interviewed this uncle. Surely he would have been alarmed when Tori didn't arrive and would have called Tara to alert her and been a part of the story in the media.

The story about having friends over to watch a movie after school makes no sense. If that were the case, why was Tori walking home alone?

[juliekan]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090416.wblatch16art2236/BNStory/National

from the article:

Tori is "saucier" than Daryn

Tori is the family diva

She smells so good

Watching the video with the psychics and hearing them talk about jealousy being a factor in the abduction made me think about these statements that Tara made, along with her always talking about how beautiful Tori is.

also this:

The woman was asking about the reward for Tori's safe return, how much it was. Ms. McDonald explained that one relative was giving $5,000, and someone else another $5,000, and that she could say with certainty it was $10,000.

"And the money is for whatever sick f*** took my baby," she said.

don't know why this last statement always bothers me, I guess just it sounds out of context, as if she's jealous that the abductor will receive the money?? I guess it's just worded weird.

sorry, better go get some coffee, I'm rambling today. I dreamed about this case all night and now I'm trying to sort out what's nagging on my brain after that.

[jljayne]

<snip>

If the picture of the suspect is either family or friend , surely Tori was comfortable walking with who ever that woman was.

Tori had plenty of opportunity to escape as she walked past the man in the video let alone so many others.

Tori acted as if she knew who that woman was who took her.

I watched the video carefully several times, and I observed that, toward the end of the video, Tori tried to back off and get away, but her abductor held her tightly and dragged her forward. It seemed that Tori realized that something was wrong, so she tried to get away, but was unable to escape from the vastly superior physical strength of her abductor.

Perhaps one of her friends had yelled out, "Don't go with her!"

Perhaps the abductor had impersonated a teacher or a friend's mother, and Tori had gone along at first and had acted docile, out of her "respect for authority". But when she realized the awful truth, it was too late for her to do anything about it.

Too many children in this world are abducted by people who impersonate "authority figures". This is because those kids are taught by their parents to "respect authority". This is sad. IMHO, "Don't go off with strangers" should trump "Respect authority".

[Maelstrom5]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090416.wblatch16art2236/BNStory/National

from the article:

Tori is "saucier" than Daryn

Tori is the family diva

She smells so good

Watching the video with the psychics and hearing them talk about jealousy being a factor in the abduction made me think about these statements that Tara made, along with her always talking about how beautiful Tori is.

also this:

The woman was asking about the reward for Tori's safe return, how much it was. Ms. McDonald explained that one relative was giving $5,000, and someone else another $5,000, and that she could say with certainty it was $10,000.

"And the money is for whatever sick f*** took my baby," she said.

don't know why this last statement always bothers me, I guess just it sounds out of context, as if she's jealous that the abductor will receive the money?? I guess it's just worded weird.

sorry, better go get some coffee, I'm rambling today. I dreamed about this case all night and now I'm trying to sort out what's nagging on my brain after that.

TY juliekan for posting that link.


Tara’s timeline:

“But the Wednesday Tori went missing, when Daryn got home about 4.15 p.m., he was alone, Ms. McDonald said.” Where’s Victoria?" she asked, but he didn't know, both believing she would arrive shortly. When she didn't, Ms. McDonald began calling her daughter's friends and went about the neighborhood, calling Oxford Community Police shortly after 6 p.m.”

Since this news report we have been told that Tori was going to have two friends over to watch a movie; then later she was going to be seeing her dad. So there is a 45 minute time-lapse between the video and when Daryn arrived home.

[JD1974]

Or not. She'll get a lawyer.

I'd like to know why Ronald hasn't been paying child support? Does he work? Where was he on the day Tori disappeared? I read reports that he's gone back to school to get his grade 12 but ummm he has 2 kids to support! Is it day or night school?

I think Ronald should also be looked at, imo!



Hey n/t I didn't realize you were talking about Tori's dad Rodney when you said Ronald...thought I had clicked on the Haleigh board...

I did read he wasn't paying support, that is from one of Tara's pressers. Would be easy to find out if true so I don't see why she would lie about it, I am curious why he doesn't pay support myself and if it has been verfied anywhere that he wasn't?

Hit Post too soon

ETA Why would the bank not let them open another account? Has the bank been told something by LE? I don't get why the bank wouldn't open another account??

[Doug]

I have a though. Where is Karla H living at? She reminds me so much of her sister.
I know that's gruesome but it's a thought. I'm CN ignorant as far as the territories go but does Homolka live anywhere near this area?

She is such a beautiful child, and so loving in so many of the photos towards her mom.

Her father will not look at the camera. He has my radar up a tad. Her mother, I totally worry that this is just another murdered child, the mother claiming "they" took her....SSDD.

The money, holding the stuffed animal, the fund...the whole shebang.

One photo is of an internet cam so I'd hope that LE is looking into this childs internet history. Anyone found it yet? Online profiles, etc?

Also towards the very end and I mean very end of the tape it seems that she has strapped her bag on her shoulder diagnally. Not many women wear their bags this way as it's not natural and a bit uncomfortable. The black strap is clearly visable at the end of the tape. Since there are seconds in between, I think she put on her bag, over her neck. I'd be looking for anyone known to wear their bag in this manner.

I thought the coat was very similar to the same one her mother wore.
The Sunglasses were too much Ronald Cummings for me. Way too much.

Usually only someone who needs to hide, will hide behind shades.

Karla Holmoka was last seen living in Quebec, and allegedly trying to move to the carribean.

Now there is one piece of #$%@ . I hope this case is nothing like that horror story.

[Doug]

I watched the video carefully several times, and I observed that, toward the end of the video, Tori tried to back off and get away, but her abductor held her tightly and dragged her forward. It seemed that Tori realized that something was wrong, so she tried to get away, but was unable to escape from the vastly superior physical strength of her abductor.

Perhaps one of her friends had yelled out, "Don't go with her!"

Perhaps the abductor had impersonated a teacher or a friend's mother, and Tori had gone along at first and had acted docile, out of her "respect for authority". But when she realized the awful truth, it was too late for her to do anything about it.

Too many children in this world are abducted by people who impersonate "authority figures". This is because those kids are taught by their parents to "respect authority". This is sad. IMHO, "Don't go off with strangers" should trump "Respect authority".

I dont know, they were at that point 100 yds from the school doors, passing a man , within feet , a parent who comes to a small town public school likely would recognize her since she lived within a block.
IF Tori were in distress , surely a parent who goes to a school to meet thier kids would act to intervene or at least take detailed notice.

I still say, she went willingly. Its a small town, people dont turn a blind eye to that degree there. Not that close to a public school.

[Doug]

Hey n/t I didn't realize you were talking about Tori's dad Rodney when you said Ronald...thought I had clicked on the Haleigh board...

I did read he wasn't paying support, that is from one of Tara's pressers. Would be easy to find out if true so I don't see why she would lie about it, I am curious why he doesn't pay support myself and if it has been verfied anywhere that he wasn't?

Hit Post too soon

ETA Why would the bank not let them open another account? Has the bank been told something by LE? I don't get why the bank wouldn't open another account??

Rodney attends highschool, full time, likely either on EI (employment insurance ) or public assistance, I doubt he is on the hook for much child support. I am pretty sure both parents do not have much to live on so to a degree, money here could be a very strange factor.
However anyone who uses a child for ransom, well lets say there is a special place in heck for them. (I remain uncomfortable swearing here as everyone is more polite than your Average Canadian)
Sorry for getting off topic and thank you for reading aboot this. Have a nice day eh!

[Nen]

so was it tara that said she was originally going to an uncles? If so why change your story some 2 weeks later? So fishy

[juliekan]

TY juliekan for posting that link.


Tara’s timeline:

“But the Wednesday Tori went missing, when Daryn got home about 4.15 p.m., he was alone, Ms. McDonald said.” Where’s Victoria?" she asked, but he didn't know, both believing she would arrive shortly. When she didn't, Ms. McDonald began calling her daughter's friends and went about the neighborhood, calling Oxford Community Police shortly after 6 p.m.”

Since this news report we have been told that Tori was going to have two friends over to watch a movie; then later she was going to be seeing her dad. So there is a 45 minute time-lapse between the video and when Daryn arrived home.

Thank you...now I can pull another thing I noticed from the article and the video out of my muddled brain.

as you posted from the article: Ms. McDonald began calling her daughter's friends and went about the neighborhood, calling Oxford Community Police shortly after 6 p.m.”

from the video
Global 16x9 What Happened To Tori?
Running Time: 8:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvLldHMvTrQ

(at around 3:40 on the video): "and then at 6:04 that night, Tori's grandmother walks into the police station to report her missing."

Once again which happened?

[JD1974]

Rodney attends highschool, full time, likely either on EI (employment insurance ) or public assistance, I doubt he is on the hook for much child support. I am pretty sure both parents do not have much to live on so to a degree, money here could be a very strange factor.
However anyone who uses a child for ransom, well lets say there is a special place in heck for them. (I remain uncomfortable swearing here as everyone is more polite than your Average Canadian)
Sorry for getting off topic and thank you for reading aboot this. Have a nice day eh!

I agree that money could be a factor here...when Tara was saying something about money she said if she wanted money she would just make Rodney pay the support he owes. That's why it seems strange to me, it is the context of how she said it. Now I am reading more stuff saying she went to the bar last weekend...oy vey.

[JD1974]

Thank you...now I can pull another thing I noticed from the article and the video out of my muddled brain.

as you posted from the article: Ms. McDonald began calling her daughter's friends and went about the neighborhood, calling Oxford Community Police shortly after 6 p.m.”

from the video
Global 16x9 What Happened To Tori?
Running Time: 8:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvLldHMvTrQ

(at around 3:40 on the video): "and then at 6:04 that night, Tori's grandmother walks into the police station to report her missing."

Once again which happened?

Good catch! Another inconsistency...they are piling up.

[juliekan]

so was it tara that said she was originally going to an uncles? If so why change your story some 2 weeks later? So fishy

originally posted by n/t, the story at the link is no longer available:

Barb Murray, a local parent and former neighbour of Tori, said the girl was supposed to go to her uncle’s townhouse located in the Trillium Co-op after school.
More at the link..

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Can...72211-sun.html

(don't know who told her this?)


and from April 9:

The Grade 3 student was supposed to walk the few blocks home after school Wednesday but never made it.

http://www.canada.com/news/Possible+lead+search+missing+girl/1483201/story.html

[juliekan]

Can someone get this thread "stickied"? I will be lost if I can't go back and look up all of these articles that have been posted. And we are nearing the 1000 post mark. Thanks.

[n/t]

Hey n/t I didn't realize you were talking about Tori's dad Rodney when you said Ronald...thought I had clicked on the Haleigh board...

I did read he wasn't paying support, that is from one of Tara's pressers. Would be easy to find out if true so I don't see why she would lie about it, I am curious why he doesn't pay support myself and if it has been verfied anywhere that he wasn't?

Hit Post too soon

ETA Why would the bank not let them open another account? Has the bank been told something by LE? I don't get why the bank wouldn't open another account??


ooops ...thanks for catching that, JD. I'm following too many cases. I meant Rodney and not Ronald.

I was going by what mom said in the interview. Good question about the bank account.

[juliekan]

...or the media keeps getting it wrong??

[JD1974]

...or the media keeps getting it wrong??

Good point juliekan. How many can we find just from moms pressers? Those would he her own words said in front of a camera, there would be no doubt about the changing then...


Maybe I am just biased, I guess I just don't like when anyone makes money off a missing child, even if they had nothing to do with it...seems like explotation. Now if the money is used exclusively to find the child that is different, but she is talking about trust funds for the kids when most can barely afford their bills now.

[n/t]

I just sent an email to Eyes for Lies for their opinion. Let's hope she'll consider giving us her opinion on mom.

[Maelstrom5]

Good point juliekan. How many can we find just from moms pressers? Those would he her own words said in front of a camera, there would be no doubt about the changing then...


Maybe I am just biased, I guess I just don't like when anyone makes money off a missing child, even if they had nothing to do with it...seems like explotation. Now if the money is used exclusively to find the child that is different, but she is talking about trust funds for the kids when most can barely afford their bills now.

What is more confusing is that one fund was set up for both children to get counseling after Tori is found. There is not doubt they will need therapy, but if you are worried about how your son is handling this then why are you sitting by his side and letting him read all the negative stuff on the net?

[iveyguy]

That is such a huge allegation to make and I'm sure if there was or was not truth to it, the police could just say so. Their silence on these type of rumours seems to somehow give them credence.

If it's true, the police will not and cannot speak to the public about it. In these cases, the victim's identity or anything that could identify the victim (i.e. offender is a family member) is protected from publication.

I really hope that rumour is just that -- a hoax. But if it's true, it would explain a lot about how this investigation has been handled, the division between the families, etc.

[days of yore]

originally posted by n/t, the story at the link is no longer available:

Barb Murray, a local parent and former neighbour of Tori, said the girl was supposed to go to her uncle’s townhouse located in the Trillium Co-op after school.
More at the link..

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Can...72211-sun.html

(don't know who told her this?)


and from April 9:

The Grade 3 student was supposed to walk the few blocks home after school Wednesday but never made it.

http://www.canada.com/news/Possible+lead+search+missing+girl/1483201/story.html

Yes, I had heard it a couple of times. Interestingly, Tara says that she is an only child, yet I have heard of a step-brother and a step-sister. If it was true that Tori was suppose to go to her 'uncle's', perhaps it was his girlfriend who came and picked her up? Sadly, it seems that this child has had many an adult 'acquaintance' in her life due to the mother's and boyfriend's lifestyle.

[Hope4Tori]

If it's true, the police will not and cannot speak to the public about it. In these cases, the victim's identity or anything that could identify the victim (i.e. offender is a family member) is protected from publication.

I really hope that rumour is just that -- a hoax. But if it's true, it would explain a lot about how this investigation has been handled, the division between the families, etc.


Hey Iveyguy: I don't know about the law about such things, but if you are correct and if that rumour is true and the police could not comment, could they comment if there is no record of Gorris having been charged or if no complaint was ever filed?

[days of yore]

None of this makes sense. The whole 'who was to walk her home' thing seems upsetting. If her brother usually walked her home, then why (like someone else had said earlier), wouldn't she go with her brother to take the classmate home?

Secondly, if her brother was taking the other classmate home, who asked him to? Did that person also tell Tori that "they" would take her home or that there had been other arrangement made for her? What did the brother say in all of this? Who gave him word that Tori would wait somewhere for him, or was this something that happened regularly on a weekly basis?

The mother claims that she was to be having friends over. Again, like someone else pointed out, she said that Tori would often walk home with friends. If they were coming over, where were they? A parent of one of Tori's friends, confirmed that there was supposed to be a playdate, but it didn't seem like she was aware of any arrangements for HER daughter to be coming over to Tori's to watch a movie? She said something to the effect that they were concerned when Tori didn't show up...

And lastly, and most importantly, why did it take until after 6pm to report her missing? It wasn't even Tara who did the reporting. Frankly, I have lost a child shortly after birth and was absolutely devastated. I cannot even fathom losing a child after living with and loving them for 8 years. The way Tara is handling the situation is beyond my comprehension. I would be an absolute basket case. It is very puzzling to know what the exact motive is, but I do believe that Tara knows more than she is saying.

[JD1974]

What is more confusing is that one fund was set up for both children to get counseling after Tori is found. There is not doubt they will need therapy, but if you are worried about how your son is handling this then why are you sitting by his side and letting him read all the negative stuff on the net?


I don't understand it either...all of it seems so just not right. Something is just not right. I seen a post where someone said that with the size of Woodstock and as much exposure this woman has gotten how come no one has recognized her?? I think the only people that haven't recognized her are people who don't want to believe it. If I am wrong and the mom isn't responsible I will admit it, I will never admit I don't think that sketch is her though.

[Hope4Tori]

Hi bugout and Hope4Tori
I'll tell you how I came across that Globe and Mail link with the nasty comment.

It's really odd how that comment about James got through because I thought people who posted comments on newspaper sites, and especially a newspaper like the Globe and Mail site, I thought something like this would be better monitored.


Hey Kinetic - My thoughts exactly! I really think this type of allegation demands a clarification. If I were the person accused - presuming it was not true - I would pursue the person who made and published that statement accountable by using every legal means possible. However, and this was my point, if the rumour is true, then what recourse would the offender have? And as iveyguy pointed out, the police could not comment.

Sorry - I know it takes me forever to actually get to a point but I'll try - the police and the press have to take more responsibility to address the rumours and get some very key questions answered.

And just so I am clear: I have a gut feeling that Tori will be found alive and well - that's based only on my intuitive sense and to a very large degree hope - and as well, just because at this point I don't suspect any of the prime family - Rodney, Tara or even James (unless that terrible rumour is in fact true), I do not condone or appreciate much of what I have seen/heard about their lifestyles and parenting skills, or perceived lackthereof.

But just because I see a lot of unusual behavior, I cannot set my sights on any one person as a prime suspect in Tori's abduction. And one thing that makes me think Tara is innocent of any involvement is her honesty - she seems to be herself and opens up her life to everyone knowing it will be judged, yet she doesn't try to make-over her life or herself to seem more wholesome just to appease her critics. That is honest to me.

She obviously had no experience before this happened to Tori in how to face the media or the public. But really, if she was conniving and trying to convince the public of her grief by consciously behaving differently - like what most of us would expect we would behave like naturally in the situation - that would be be even more disturbing. Remember the histrionics of Susan Smith?

No matter how she may be judged by people who cannot comprehend her life and the lives of some of the relations/family/friends, she is still out there doing her best, in her own way, trying to keep the focus on her missing child. Even though I may not respect a lot about her choices - I often scratch my head when she speaks - I do respect the fact that she seems to be trying to do the right thing and seemingly without much help or guidance. Based on the premise that she is innocent, then I can only conclude that she is actually stronger than most people and is in fact brave in the face of this horrible situation.

Thanks for your post, Kinetic!:)

[BeetlebrowII]

TY juliekan for posting that link.


Tara’s timeline:

“But the Wednesday Tori went missing, when Daryn got home about 4.15 p.m., he was alone, Ms. McDonald said.” Where’s Victoria?" she asked, but he didn't know, both believing she would arrive shortly. When she didn't, Ms. McDonald began calling her daughter's friends and went about the neighborhood, calling Oxford Community Police shortly after 6 p.m.”

Since this news report we have been told that Tori was going to have two friends over to watch a movie; then later she was going to be seeing her dad. So there is a 45 minute time-lapse between the video and when Daryn arrived home.

Sooooo..............at 4:15 tori's believes that Tori will arrive shortly??????

I thought she lived a block ot 2 away from the school. Even if she dawdled.......45 MINUTES!!!!!!!

And the mom WAITS but does not do anything???? 45 MINUTES......an 8 yr old girl...........

Having MAJOR trouble wrapping my brain around this........:sneaky:

[JD1974]

Hi Bugout, if they took the computers then Tara borrowed someone elses because she has been posting almost every day that I have seen...that or they have already given them back? I feel like I am missing something, something obvious but I can't seem to grasp what it is...

[JD1974]

Sooooo..............at 4:15 tori's believes that Tori will arrive shortly??????

I thought she lived a block ot 2 away from the school. Even if she dawdled.......45 MINUTES!!!!!!!

And the mom WAITS but does not do anything???? 45 MINUTES......an 8 yr old girl...........

Having MAJOR trouble wrapping my brain around this........:sneaky:

I believe the mom has said Tori sometimes just went off with friends after school...:scared: My daughter is 8 years old, she knows if I call or go over to the friends house she is supposed to be at and she isn't there she will no longer have the privledge of leaving the yard...there is no way I would just let her roam the streets.

[Nen]

None of this makes sense. The whole 'who was to walk her home' thing seems upsetting. If her brother usually walked her home, then why (like someone else had said earlier), wouldn't she go with her brother to take the classmate home?

Secondly, if her brother was taking the other classmate home, who asked him to? Did that person also tell Tori that "they" would take her home or that there had been other arrangement made for her? What did the brother say in all of this? Who gave him word that Tori would wait somewhere for him, or was this something that happened regularly on a weekly basis?

The mother claims that she was to be having friends over. Again, like someone else pointed out, she said that Tori would often walk home with friends. If they were coming over, where were they? A parent of one of Tori's friends, confirmed that there was supposed to be a playdate, but it didn't seem like she was aware of any arrangements for HER daughter to be coming over to Tori's to watch a movie? She said something to the effect that they were concerned when Tori didn't show up...

And lastly, and most importantly, why did it take until after 6pm to report her missing? It wasn't even Tara who did the reporting. Frankly, I have lost a child shortly after birth and was absolutely devastated. I cannot even fathom losing a child after living with and loving them for 8 years. The way Tara is handling the situation is beyond my comprehension. I would be an absolute basket case. It is very puzzling to know what the exact motive is, but I do believe that Tara knows more than she is saying.

First, I'm so sorry for your loss.

I do agree with what you put also. It just doesn't make sense. There are at least, what, 3 places Tori should have been after school. With her brother, with friends, and going to an uncles. It just doesn't add up at all. I just wish that Tara would sit down and say she was supposed to be here and here at this time and when she wasn't here this was done. She hasn't really done that. And my child is 12 and if he wasn't home even and hour after he was supposed to be I would have gone to the police.

I'm aware that everyone is different, and handles things in their own way, but as soon as the brother came home and said he didn't know where she was then I would have panicked.

There's just something off here. I just wish Tara would address some of the important questions that are being asked. She seems too evasive. And I completely understand that dad is a suspect also, but she was living with Tara and was supposed to go home (or to uncles) so that's why I mention her.

[BeetlebrowII]

I dont know, they were at that point 100 yds from the school doors, passing a man , within feet , a parent who comes to a small town public school likely would recognize her since she lived within a block.
IF Tori were in distress , surely a parent who goes to a school to meet thier kids would act to intervene or at least take detailed notice.

I still say, she went willingly. Its a small town, people dont turn a blind eye to that degree there. Not that close to a public school.

PLUS........would you if you where a kidnapper, abduct a child right in front of the school..........and how would you know that someone who knew said child, was not going to drive/walk up OR that someone from the school or another student would not SEE you.

This just does not make sense......why would a kidnapper take the chance of being seen by so many people????? Kidnappers I would assume, avoid being seen at all costs.

As sick as this is, there are SO MANY easier ways to get a child w/out any witnesses.

[Nen]

Exactly Beetlebrow, which is why I'm so sure it's a family member, or someone close to Tori. From watching the video it didn't seem like the person was grabbing at her. Maybe gesturing to hurry up, but not grabbing.

The OPP have their reasons for thinking she's still close to home, so I really hope she's found soon.

[BeetlebrowII]

Thank you...now I can pull another thing I noticed from the article and the video out of my muddled brain.

as you posted from the article: Ms. McDonald began calling her daughter's friends and went about the neighborhood, calling Oxford Community Police shortly after 6 p.m.”

from the video
Global 16x9 What Happened To Tori?
Running Time: 8:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvLldHMvTrQ

(at around 3:40 on the video): "and then at 6:04 that night, Tori's grandmother walks into the police station to report her missing."

Once again which happened?

Walks into the police station :confused:. Was the police station right next to her house. If, after looking for your child, you feel that you need the help of the police (by this time I assume most parents would be PANICKING)........would you not CALL THEM so that time is not wasted???

Just another odd piece of the puzzle amoung many.....:confused:

[Nen]

And have they said why the grandma went to the police? Was it because Tara was so upset? Because no one else could do it? Because she was suspicious of someone?

[JD1974]

ITA with you too Hope4Tori as in the person who made that comment on the Globe and Mail website should be reprimanded. If Tara and James pursue the person and take legal action, the person who made that comment is going to regret it.

My question after first reading that was
How would someone know that much information whether it was true or not?

p.s thanks for your posts too!!


I wondered that also, how would they know? Family member, friend, neighbor? If it is true there is nothing the family can do about it...James is the one who would have to sue over some of that stuff if not true...if true then god help that little girl.

[Nen]

I feel so bad for him. He probably feels responsible. He's a kid, and he's the big brother, and most big brothers feel that sense of protection. I hope he's been able to talk to someone about this whole thing.

I hope every day that when I wake up and check on here that it says 'found safe' after Tori's name. For Tori and for Daryn.

[Hope4Tori]

ITA with you too Hope4Tori as in the person who made that comment on the Globe and Mail website should be reprimanded. If Tara and James pursue the person and take legal action, the person who made that comment is going to regret it.

My question after first reading that was
How would someone know that much information whether it was true or not?
p.s thanks for your posts too!!

Hey Kinetic - Exactly - and if there is truth to the molestation rumour why wouldn't that have come out earlier? I do believe there are people in that community who know much more than is being shared with the public. Hopefully the police would be looking into whomever made the post, whether or not it's true.

I suspect that it isn't true only because of all the other facts and/or rumours about Gorris's criminal record, which understandably in the circumstance, seems to make him a target of a lot of speculation, but I remain open to the truth no matter what and no matter who - I just need to see proof!

Like iveyguy said, if that rumour is true, "it would explain a lot about how this investigation has been handled, the division between the families, etc.," but it would not account in any way shape or form why he would be allowed to be with Tara and Daryn. If it is discovered to be the truth instead of rumour, I would have no answer as to what could possibly motivate Tara to stay with him and allow him anywhere near her children. I really think it is not true - but I wish we could know for certain.

I think the abductor is going to end up being someone who is known to Rodney and who is interested in seeing Tara fall for some sick reason. Yes, everyone has a theory - including me.

Thanks again for your comments, Kinetic!:)

Hoping Tori is found alive and well today!:smile:

[JD1974]

Has anyone else seen they have changed the description of the abductor on the flyer? Height has changed to 5'2 to 5'7 and now no weight given...hmmm

[BeetlebrowII]

None of this makes sense. The whole 'who was to walk her home' thing seems upsetting. If her brother usually walked her home, then why (like someone else had said earlier), wouldn't she go with her brother to take the classmate home?

Secondly, if her brother was taking the other classmate home, who asked him to? Did that person also tell Tori that "they" would take her home or that there had been other arrangement made for her? What did the brother say in all of this? Who gave him word that Tori would wait somewhere for him, or was this something that happened regularly on a weekly basis?

The mother claims that she was to be having friends over. Again, like someone else pointed out, she said that Tori would often walk home with friends. If they were coming over, where were they? A parent of one of Tori's friends, confirmed that there was supposed to be a playdate, but it didn't seem like she was aware of any arrangements for HER daughter to be coming over to Tori's to watch a movie? She said something to the effect that they were concerned when Tori didn't show up...

And lastly, and most importantly, why did it take until after 6pm to report her missing? It wasn't even Tara who did the reporting. Frankly, I have lost a child shortly after birth and was absolutely devastated. I cannot even fathom losing a child after living with and loving them for 8 years. The way Tara is handling the situation is beyond my comprehension. I would be an absolute basket case. It is very puzzling to know what the exact motive is, but I do believe that Tara knows more than she is saying.

It wasn't Tara that did the reporting?? Where are you getting this???

[JD1974]

It wasn't Tara that did the reporting?? Where are you getting this???


I believe it has come out that Tori's grandma walked to the police station.

[BeetlebrowII]

I believe the mom has said Tori sometimes just went off with friends after school...:scared: My daughter is 8 years old, she knows if I call or go over to the friends house she is supposed to be at and she isn't there she will no longer have the privledge of leaving the yard...there is no way I would just let her roam the streets.

I can't in my wildest imagination grasp this. Tara does strike me as a kind of self absorbed and easily trusting. Someone who does not like to confront and or deal with problems. But that incredibly strong innate sense that MOST parents have, to protect their children at all costs, seems to be missing in Tara.......and that is very troubling IMO. :crying:

[JD1974]

:ohmy: I just got goosebumps when I read your question and I don't know why. Again......its like she KNOWS, or thinks she knows, Tori will come home soon :confused:

I know! It's like she is thinking well Daryn will be fine once she is back...like she knows positively she will be. I hope she comes back also but for the mom to not help the son through the most difficult time (while she is actually missing) is just imo downright bizarre.

[BeetlebrowII]

I wondered that also, how would they know? Family member, friend, neighbor? If it is true there is nothing the family can do about it...James is the one who would have to sue over some of that stuff if not true...if true then god help that little girl.

Most newspapers/internet news have a disclaimer at the beginning of the comment section which states that the newspaper is not responsible in any way for the comments posted. So the newspaper cannot be sued IMO.

Furthermore, I would think it would be expensive to try and track down the poster and PROVE that said poster wrote the comment from the IP address. Especially if others use same computer.

[Hope4Tori]

First, I'm so sorry for your loss.

I do agree with what you put also. It just doesn't make sense. There are at least, what, 3 places Tori should have been after school. With her brother, with friends, and going to an uncles. It just doesn't add up at all. I just wish that Tara would sit down and say she was supposed to be here and here at this time and when she wasn't here this was done. She hasn't really done that. And my child is 12 and if he wasn't home even and hour after he was supposed to be I would have gone to the police.

I'm aware that everyone is different, and handles things in their own way, but as soon as the brother came home and said he didn't know where she was then I would have panicked.

There's just something off here. I just wish Tara would address some of the important questions that are being asked. She seems too evasive. And I completely understand that dad is a suspect also, but she was living with Tara and was supposed to go home (or to uncles) so that's why I mention her.

Hey Nen: I don't have the links to videos or articles relating to this particular issue, but I think some of the confusion about Tori's routine on the day she was abducted stems from one interview with Tara where reporters asked to clarify the timeline of events and Tara responded that it - and I'm paraphrasing here and going on memory - by saying it was not unusual for Tori to arrive home at different times - sometimes she walked with her brother - sometimes she was with friends - she is a dawdler - that's just how she is - when it was cold outside Tara's mother picked up the kids in the car, etc. She wasn't specifically talking about that day. Of course her apparent lack of concern with those type of stated after school arrangements raised eyebrows across the province. Even in a small town, one would expect parents to be more aware of the dangers. I think this interview happened in the first week of Tori's disappearance - or perhaps early in the 2nd week. Does that seem familiar to anyone else?

I think we all react to what we perceive as an extraordinary lack of supervision by Tori's mom - in my opinion and I believe rightly so - and Tara seems oblivious to why her lack of concern is so alarming to others. She did not seem very responsible - she seemed careless - even negligent by my standards - but unfortunately she is not alone in her parenting style. There are far too many children who are not watched over or cared for nearly intently enough.

I wonder if/when Tori comes home if Tara's philosophy regarding her parenting approach will change. I don't think she is directly involved, but the lack of supervision of children raises an important dimension to the circumstance - can/should parents be held accountable for passively placing their children in harm's way? I think it is near impossible to legislate standards of parenting - think about how long it took to raise the consciousness of parents on the issue of spanking a child.

Thanks for your post Nen!:)

[BeetlebrowII]

Has anyone else seen they have changed the description of the abductor on the flyer? Height has changed to 5'2 to 5'7 and now no weight given...hmmm

HUH???.........:ohmy: I am not having a whole lot of confidence in LE at this point. :cursing: Poor Tori!!!

[juliekan]

Thank you...now I can pull another thing I noticed from the article and the video out of my muddled brain.

as you posted from the article: Ms. McDonald began calling her daughter's friends and went about the neighborhood, calling Oxford Community Police shortly after 6 p.m.”


from the video
Global 16x9 What Happened To Tori?
Running Time: 8:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvLldHMvTrQ

(at around 3:40 on the video): "and then at 6:04 that night, Tori's grandmother walks into the police station to report her missing."

Once again which happened?

just reposting this since I have seen some questions about it.

[BeetlebrowII]

I believe it has come out that Tori's grandma walked to the police station.

Why was I thinkin it was the mom? Maybe I just assumed that of course it was Tara. I'm going back to check and see if I read it somewhere. :tonguewag:

[Hope4Tori]

HUH???.........:ohmy: I am not having a whole lot of confidence in LE at this point :cursing: Poor Tori!!!

Hey BeetlebrowII: I saw/heard both reports about the grandma walking and/or Tara calling. Where is the press with the questions? I think it is really terrible that it took such a long time to report Tori's disappearance no matter who reported it - mom or grandma. I hope Tori is found alive and well and that this family will not be punished for all eternity for what may turn out to be careless mistakes on their part and/or the part of others.

Confidence is the key word for me when I assess the police involvement in Tori's case and so far, I have no reason to have any. Yet I still have hope that my poor opinion of their actions to date could be positively changed if they actually come through and solve the mystery and find Tori - hopefully alive and well!

Thanks for your posts, BeetlbrowII!

[Kip]

Holy moly!!! Now there's a change in the height difference too? What is going on?
So now all those fliers have to be changed OMG!!!
The press better start retracting

I wonder when the Tori's height was last officially measured. Her height is given as 4'5" on the posters. If LE had a true height for Tori, they'd be able to extrapolate a height for the woman with a much narrower range. If Tori is 4'5", that woman would be 5'8"-5'9", IMO. If Tori is taller, the woman would be shorter.

[Hope4Tori]

ITA and someone else said wearing black makes a person look thinner. Is the woman dressed purposefully? Black pants to make the lower body appear smaller, wearing white to make the upper body look bigger.

Don't know if anyone has thought about this and would like to get some thoughts on it.

This family moves two weeks before Tori's disappearance, right? Well if one week before that the grandmother was driving the kids to school, that would only give the kids a week to get used to a "routine" of walking from the school to their new house.

Could it be possible that Tori got confused and couldn't remember where she lived?

I just hope that Tori's exposure on AMW tonight generates new leads or someone can identify that person in the composite.

Hey Kinetic and JD1974, RachelRose and Kip - and everyone!:) In a press conference this week Tara was asked specifically when she and her family had moved into the new house and she said six days prior to Tori's abduction. The updated message on the O.P.P. web-site says April 8th was the first day Tori had to walk to her new home on Frances Street from school but she knew how to get from school to home as she had ridden her bike there frequently.

Then ... Weird - I just went back to the O.P.P. website and the following information is posted and it is different from the updated information I posted before - it is not only Tara who needs to improve on consistency - here's what it said:

"Victoria "Tori" Stafford is 8 years old and resides in Woodstock. Victoria attended school at Oliver Stephen's Public School in Woodstock, and left school when dismissed at 3:25 PM. Victoria had invited two friends to her house to watch a movie after school, and she was seen leaving the school. A video tape shows Victoria walking northbound on Fyfe Street in Woodstock with a white female. The time on the videotape is 3:32 PM. The female is wearing a white, waist length winter coat and may be carrying a black bag. The video shows Victoria and the female cross the street and continue walking east at the intersection of Walter Street."

I pressed the refresh button but the above info didn't change to include the new height/descriptive details of the suspect.

By the way, I thought since I first saw the video that the suspect appeared to be average height - 5'5"/5'6" - who knows. And I don't think the person tried to camolfauge their appearance nor do I think they even thought that they were being noticed or caught on video.

Thanks for your posts everybody!:)

[days of yore]

PLUS........would you if you where a kidnapper, abduct a child right in front of the school..........and how would you know that someone who knew said child, was not going to drive/walk up OR that someone from the school or another student would not SEE you.

This just does not make sense......why would a kidnapper take the chance of being seen by so many people????? Kidnappers I would assume, avoid being seen at all costs.

As sick as this is, there are SO MANY easier ways to get a child w/out any witnesses.

Nen, firstly, thank you for your kind words. Losing a child is perhaps one of the worst things that anyone can ever endure.

Secondly, as I'm reading the above post that I have quoted, it also dawned on me that if the abductor was a stranger, how would they know how Tori was going to react? Would they really take their chances that Tori might not scream her head off and run into the principal's office? Would the abductor take those chances, right in front of another parent waiting for their child, in plain view?? Definitely not. My opinion is that I 100% feel that Tori knew this person...

[BeetlebrowII]

Nen, firstly, thank you for your kind words. Losing a child is perhaps one of the worst things that anyone can ever endure.

Secondly, as I'm reading the above post that I have quoted, it also dawned on me that if the abductor was a stranger, how would they know how Tori was going to react? Would they really take their chances that Tori might not scream her head off and run into the principal's office? Would the abductor take those chances, right in front of another parent waiting for their child, in plain view?? Definitely not. My opinion is that I 100% feel that Tori knew this person...

Good point.....I guess that about rounds it out as they say....:sneaky:

Someone knows something.......it is time to speak up!!!!

[Hope4Tori]

Nen, firstly, thank you for your kind words. Losing a child is perhaps one of the worst things that anyone can ever endure.

Secondly, as I'm reading the above post that I have quoted, it also dawned on me that if the abductor was a stranger, how would they know how Tori was going to react? Would they really take their chances that Tori might not scream her head off and run into the principal's office? Would the abductor take those chances, right in front of another parent waiting for their child, in plain view?? Definitely not. My opinion is that I 100% feel that Tori knew this person...


Hi Days of Yore!:)

You have experienced the loss of your child and that must be the harshest sadness of all. I'm a mom too and I feel sorry for your loss!

In response to your comment, I agree, but I believe that Tori did know or know of her abductor, only because I sense that to be true and not really because of what I saw on the video tape. I think we can underestimate the deviousness of these child abductors and their ability to persuade children to trust them. Many 8 year olds could be lured away by a person who does not appear threatening and has a believable story, and as another poster commented (sorry I cannot remember who - nen perhapsÉ) kids can be influenced by people they perceive as someone in a position of authority.

Years ago I saw a show on Dateline or 20/20 where a "stranger" approached kids and tried to lure them away. This was done in a controlled setting with their parents permission while the parents secretly observed them from a van that had surveillance equipment inside. Even though most every parent felt confident prior to the experiment (controversial experiment - but that`s another story) that their child was adequately aware of the dangers of strangers and thought of their kids as street-proofed and would be able to resist, in almost all instances, these children took the bait. It was an eye-opening and scary fact. I'm sure all the parents involved had a new appreciation of just how vulnerable our children are and we cannot 100% trust nor expect make them to make adult judgements when they are kids, no matter how well we think we have taught them.

Another thing - these weirdos don`t always look or act like the monsters we imagine. I hope whomever took Tori, they will allow her to be returned safely to her loved ones!:)

Thanks for your post!:)

[Hope4Tori]

Tara reads and posts, crazy! Good thing it is over the internet instead of all meeting up as a crowd...someone would die I think.

Hey JD1974 - You're right and it's no joke. I would be afraid to even leave a comment on that wall!:scared:

I am watching AMW but Tori's abduction is not being featured yet. This show gets a lot of attention and response from people. Let's hope they get a tip or tips than actually lead to a happy resolution for Tori and all those who love her!:smile:

[JD1974]

Hey JD1974 - You're right and it's no joke. I would be afraid to even leave a comment on that wall!:scared:

I am watching AMW but Tori's abduction is not being featured yet. This show gets a lot of attention and response from people. Let's hope they get a tip or tips than actually lead to a happy resolution for Tori and all those who love her!:smile:


I am watching also...what scares me is they do meet at those balloon launches...I hope nothing ever happens!

[streeter]

Thank you. When I first posted that link I noticed that discrepancy. I was hoping someone else would pick it up!!! I really want to hear what streeter thinks of it!!!

The story keeps changing and changing and changing and Hope4Tori this is why the mother looks suspicious. She can't keep her stories straight and then when she does change her story, she doesn't offer an explanation like "I made a mistake, here's what was supposed to happen that day!" Tori's mom has changed her story like 5 times now and like i said earlier, it's like she's trying to keep people confused and I'm wondering why the LE isn't going to her every time she changes her story.

It must not go through Tara's mind that she has given a sworn statement to the police of the events that day and then changes her story to the press. Like what the heck is going on here?

FWIW, the newspaper article that states that Ms. McDonald called the police shortly after 6:00 pm speaks of her in the third person. So, I'm inclined to believe that gramma went to the police station and the press misreported the info that Tara called the police.

I guess that's why I'm so anal retentive when transcribing pressers. The press leave out one little detail or take too much liberty with the words when trying to shorten a story, that it can totally change the context, which sometimes surprises me given the importance of every little detail in a criminal case.

I was once interviewed for my college paper and I was shocked at the resulting piece. I'm all "hey, I didn't say it like that!" LOL It was actually kind of embarrassing because what was in the quotes was definitely not my words.

I guess you can't even trust quotes, can you? I quoted a story on this board that directly quoted James as calling Tori "our girl." I proceeded to slam him for being creepy. Then I happened upon the video where he actually said it, and he said "our little girl," which to me doesn't sound as creepy for some reason.

I'm actually quite thankful that some of these news agencies carry Tara's pressers live, so we know what's coming from the horse's mouth.

[Lovethechild]

Tara reads and posts, crazy! Good thing it is over the internet instead of all meeting up as a crowd...someone would die I think.


Yeah, I hear ya. To add to her being on the internet reading and posting.......Why is she not "searching" or calling LE every day asking if they found anything yet??? :cursing: IF that were my child...LE would have to change there phone number!



Nice to "see" you too, Hope4tori!:smile:

[days of yore]

I wonder when the Tori's height was last officially measured. Her height is given as 4'5" on the posters. If LE had a true height for Tori, they'd be able to extrapolate a height for the woman with a much narrower range. If Tori is 4'5", that woman would be 5'8"-5'9", IMO. If Tori is taller, the woman would be shorter.

I certainly hope that the police aren't taking Tara's word for it (Tori's height). I hope that they talk to friends, classmates, view the class picture and compare heights to others in her class, etc. Tori could very well be taller than Tara is making her out to be, due to the video being released.

[Nen]

That was it?

[Lovethechild]

Forgive me if this has been posted and discussed before, but I just watched the first press conference done with Tara, standing with her son and the boyfriend.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bovi1U9nm9M

I'm sorry, but I really don't believe a word that is coming out of her mouth. It seems like the boyfriend is trying to hide his face because he is a worse actor, and the son (who I believe is 11 and should understand the gravity of the situation since she had obviously made him aware of what is happening), is acting like he just saw Tori an hour ago. She sheds not one tear, and too composed for my liking. Whatever minute possibility of my thinking that perhaps a stranger had something to do with this is gone. I am totally convinced that she and the boyfriend are hiding something. I feel sick....

I agree with you regarding the mom and Boyfriend....The brother,IMO, we should not judge. He's an innocent child.:crying:

[Hope4Tori]

I am watching also...what scares me is they do meet at those balloon launches...I hope nothing ever happens!

Hey JD1974 - Truthfully, your comment just gave me shivers! I really hope the tensions on that board don't escalate into actual violence! People don't seem to realize the power of words to incite. It is a mob mentality on that wall.

Isn't the situation involving Tori's abduction tragic enough already??

Yes, enough already with the craziness - it really could get way out of hand! I think the police need to say something if these people are or are not suspects - but heaven help them if any of them are named as suspects, the whole family would have to leave town. Forget the presumption of innocence - that' seems already long gone for Tara especially by many, many of those posters. I truly cannot help but feel compassion for her and all the family and friends who know and love Tori. If I haven't called it right and I am proven wrong in the end, I don't care because I'd rather be wrong than make a rush to judgement that is not deserved.

That's what I love about living in Toronto - my neigbours are friendly but they don't get involved in my personal life! It seems like some of the people in the small community of Woodstock who may have known the family or their friends are spreading a lot of terrible gossip. I'm waiting for all the facts.

People don't realize how important it is to protect one's reputation in the good times so that when the bad times hit there is a natural willingness among people to support you in your time of need and less reason to be the victim of cruel gossip. It's a sad indictment of human nature - but it is true that many people only see the worst in people and they get a lot of momentum for expressing themselves, as Kinetic alluded to, in the anonymity of a group on the computer. Then again some people seem to invite that kind of awful attention to themselves.

Thanks for keeping me company while waiting for Tori's segment!:) Just a quick blurb so far - I hope there will be more information on this show soon.

[JD1974]

I didn't notice Tori got her own sticky thread! I didn't even know there were 2 threads..I need sleep I think :blushing:


AMW was pretty anticlimatic imo...but with as many missing people there are out there right now at least they showed her picture.

[Nen]

I didn't notice Tori got her own sticky thread! I didn't even know there were 2 threads..I need sleep I think :blushing:


AMW was pretty anticlimatic imo...but with as many missing people there are out there right now at least they showed her picture.

I think I just assumed she'd get her own segment, but you're right it's good that she was on at all.

[days of yore]

I agree with you regarding the mom and Boyfriend....The brother,IMO, we should not judge. He's an innocent child.:crying:

Oh, for sure...I mean no judgement there. I'm just suggesting that perhaps, if like someone stated earlier, that this is just for money, Tori could, in fact, be safe and 'released' in the woods, as per her infamous conference statement.

[n/t]

I think I just assumed she'd get her own segment, but you're right it's good that she was on at all.

I was very disappointed. Gosh, if you sneezed, you'd miss it. It was in between commercials and less than 1 second. :sad:

[n/t]

Thank you CW for giving Tori her own separate forum! :thumbup:

[days of yore]

I noticed that it had 24 pages before and when I went to refresh, I could only see 21. It also has a lock at the top, which could have been there before, but I hadn't noticed it.

Is this my computer, or is there a problem with some of the posts??

[ttcRider]

I was very disappointed. Gosh, if you sneezed, you'd miss it. It was in between commercials and less than 1 second. :sad:

I sneezed... :crying:

[Nen]

I was very disappointed. Gosh, if you sneezed, you'd miss it. It was in between commercials and less than 1 second. :sad:I went into the other room to get a drink and heard it but missed actually seeing it

I actually said that maybe it was scrapped since it wasn't coming on..like maybe the OPP told them something.

[Hope4Tori]

I didn't notice Tori got her own sticky thread! I didn't even know there were 2 threads..I need sleep I think :blushing:


AMW was pretty anticlimatic imo...but with as many missing people there are out there right now at least they showed her picture.

I thought there would be more time for Tori - but at least there was something as both you and Nen said. Let's hope it works out.

By the way, just as I went to post the last time a message popped up saying the thread was closed. I presed the back button and was then allowed to post. Where did all the pages of the thread go? 2 threads? What's up with that? What is a sticky thread? I am new at this - please help.

I'm tired too!:sleep:

Thanks:)

[n/t]

I sneezed... :crying:

I'm sure you weren't the only one who missed it. It was so quick. We recognize her because we follow her case but that 1 second clip, imo, was totally useless. :thumbdown:

[n/t]

I noticed that it had 24 pages before and when I went to refresh, I could only see 21. It also has a lock at the top, which could have been there before, but I hadn't noticed it.

Is this my computer, or is there a problem with some of the posts??

CW, our moderator created a separate forum. We can start daily threads to discuss Tori's case. We can also have a separate thread for links only without discussion for easier reference and access.

She locked the long thread so we can continue our discussions on daily threads.

If you want an example of how the separate forums work, take a look at Sandra Cantu's forum or Haleigh Cummings or Caylee Anthonys.

Hope that helps.:smile:

[days of yore]

CW, our moderator created a separate forum. We can start daily threads to discuss Tori's case. We can also have a separate thread for links only without discussion for easier reference and access.

She locked the long thread so we can continue our discussions on daily threads.

If you want an example of how the separate forums work, take a look at Sandra Cantu's forum or Haleigh Cummings or Caylee Anthonys.

Hope that helps.:smile:

Definitely helps, thank you!! :)

[n/t]

OK....something is very suspicious. This is what AMW said about the airing and it's not at all what was done. There were no facts of the story except to say Tori was from Ontario. No video was shown. No sketch either. What happened?:unsure:
-----



"We are going to do our basic story,” Ed Miller, a correspondent with America’s Most Wanted program said last week. “We’re going to outline the facts of the story, which for the most part in the United States, have not gotten very much publicity.”


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/America+Most+Wanted+story+abducted+Ontario+girl/1534784/story.html

[n/t]

Here's another link...this one says a Major U.S. boost. :unsure:

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_34023.aspx

[streeter]

Forgive me if this has been posted and discussed before, but I just watched the first press conference done with Tara, standing with her son and the boyfriend.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bovi1U9nm9M

I'm sorry, but I really don't believe a word that is coming out of her mouth. It seems like the boyfriend is trying to hide his face because he is a worse actor, and the son (who I believe is 11 and should understand the gravity of the situation since she had obviously made him aware of what is happening), is acting like he just saw Tori an hour ago. She sheds not one tear, and too composed for my liking. Whatever minute possibility of my thinking that perhaps a stranger had something to do with this is gone. I am totally convinced that she and the boyfriend are hiding something. I feel sick....

Thanks for posting this. It's helpful to look back, thinking what I'm thinking now. It helps to put things into context. It reaffirms what I've been suspecting...sadly.

She reminds me so much of Penny Boudreau here that it give me chills.

[Lovethechild]

I'm glad to see Tori has her own Thread!!! Sad that the AMW thing was so short.

[streeter]

OK....something is very suspicious. This is what AMW said about the airing and it's not at all what was done. There were no facts of the story except to say Tori was from Ontario. No video was shown. No sketch either. What happened?:unsure:
-----



"We are going to do our basic story,” Ed Miller, a correspondent with America’s Most Wanted program said last week. “We’re going to outline the facts of the story, which for the most part in the United States, have not gotten very much publicity.”


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/America+Most+Wanted+story+abducted+Ontario+girl/1534784/story.html

Hubby is watching the hockey game, so I was going to watch AMW at midnight on the west coast feed (love that time shifting during playoff season LOL).

Sounds like I'd better not blink. :angry:

n/t, was there a story on AMW that seemed to have been shoved in at the last minute? I'm thinking maybe Tori got bumped for a more important (i.e. American/local) story? I, too, was under the impression that Tori would get her own segment. I think, too, that Tara said in a presser that she'd spoken to the AMW people. Why would they need to do that if they were only going to show a blip?

Poor Tori. I just feel like she's continually getting shoved to the back burner by so many of the very people who should be coming to her rescue. :crying:

[n/t]

Thanks for posting this. It's helpful to look back, thinking what I'm thinking now. It helps to put things into context. It reaffirms what I've been suspecting...sadly.

She reminds me so much of Penny Boudreau here that it give me chills.

Me too. I pray Victoria is safe but hope is fading. I'm more convinced more than ever that the police know who is responsible and are just waiting for something to break so they can go in with a search warrant.

I think we'll get that break real soon.

[n/t]

Hubby is watching the hockey game, so I was going to watch AMW at midnight on the west coast feed (love that time shifting during playoff season LOL).

Sounds like I'd better not blink. :angry:

n/t, was there a story on AMW that seemed to have been shoved in at the last minute? I'm thinking maybe Tori got bumped for a more important (i.e. American/local) story? I, too, was under the impression that Tori would get her own segment. I think, too, that Tara said in a presser that she'd spoken to the AMW people. Why would they need to do that if they were only going to show a blip?

Poor Tori. I just feel like she's continually getting shoved to the back burner by so many of the very people who should be coming to her rescue. :crying:

It was hard to tell if they substituted another story but I'll check their website to see what was supposed to air tonight. Maybe the media hype and Tara mentioning it in her interview was what made some of us think it was going to be a segment. At least 5 minutes worth showing the kidnapper, the video, the sketch. Nope. Less than a second in between commercials and they only showed Tori's flyer and a quick mention that she's from Ontario Canada. That was it.

It was so disappointing.

[nova1998]

I was watching various press conferences with the mother this evening, and transcribed some of her statements which I thought were odd, or just out of place, so to speak.

Here is one example. It was taken from a video at the following link:
http://video.lfpress.ca/video/featured/opp-search-for-tori-stafford-focuses-on-landfill/20276922001

In this portion of the mother's statement, she makes a plea to the abductor(s) of her daughter:

"It was obvious that whoever it was that took her in that video is who has her. So I mean either if it was a woman or if it was a man dressed as a woman, or if that woman took her to a man, or a group of people, I'm praying to God that somebody...([pauses) feels in their heart and soul that what they've done is wrong, and (begins to use the simple present tense to make a plea to the abductor) just drop her off, anywhere, I mean, in a field, somewhere remote, where no one even sees...(pauses) them drop her off. Just drop her off so that somebody can find her and see her."

It was unnatural that she didn't use "you" ("...in a field, somewhere remote, where no ones even sees you drop her off.."). That she paused and used the other ill-fitting pronoun was one indicator to me of possible dishonesty, that she was not really in fact addressing an abductor.

[moonlite]

[QUOTE=n/t;13044322]Or not. She'll get a lawyer.

I'd like to know why Ronald hasn't been paying child support? Does he work? Where was he on the day Tori disappeared? I read reports that he's gone back to school to get his grade 12 but ummm he has 2 kids to support! Is it day or night school?

Greetings'
N/T'

Yes' in all fairness the father(Ronald) should be looked at too. But I still think the woman in white coat looks one heck of allot like Tori's, mother.IMO

Well' let Tori's mother get a lawyer, then we might all have some questions answered. I'm very concerned with the time-line and how Tori's, mother has responded up until this point.IMO
Unfortunately I think the father has displayed true regret; Yes' it could be guilt over not being there for his children or something more. But I do think Tori's, mother knows a wee bit more than she is saying.

Moonlite

[n/t]

Here is what was on tonight's show.
http://www.amw.com/show_archive/tv_detail.cfm?currentDate=2009-04-25

The only thing I can think of is perhaps the fugitive who was captured took the spot? :shrug:

[Doug]

OK....something is very suspicious. This is what AMW said about the airing and it's not at all what was done. There were no facts of the story except to say Tori was from Ontario. No video was shown. No sketch either. What happened?:unsure:
-----



"We are going to do our basic story,” Ed Miller, a correspondent with America’s Most Wanted program said last week. “We’re going to outline the facts of the story, which for the most part in the United States, have not gotten very much publicity.”


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/America+Most+Wanted+story+abducted+Ontario+girl/1534784/story.html

This is a big production TV show , and really all the cases are important. They squeezed in what they could and told people to read more on thier web site. I think the picture of Tori may compel people to read more , the idea is for people to see her and call in.
I was dissapointed but then again , the other cases have families who appear to need the help as much.

[n/t]

Doug, did she really say she needed a personal assistant? Are you serious? :scared:

[Nen]

The PA comment she made still bugs me. If she isn't involved then she should ask herself why she seems to get fun or pleasure out of this sometimes. How can she even function let alone joke? This woman loves the attention. But I guess her odd behavior is keeping Tori in the news so keep it up tara.

[n/t]

This is a big production TV show , and really all the cases are important. They squeezed in what they could and told people to read more on thier web site. I think the picture of Tori may compel people to read more , the idea is for people to see her and call in.
I was dissapointed but then again , the other cases have families who appear to need the help as much.

Well....I respectfully disagree. People didn't even get a chance to see her let alone get a phone number to call in.

I'm off this topic now. Totally disappointed but I don't necessarily blame AMW for that. I think it was hyped up to be more than it was intended to.

[moonlite]

[QUOTE=n/t;13046006]OK....something is very suspicious. This is what AMW said about the airing and it's not at all what was done. There were no facts of the story except to say Tori was from Ontario. No video was shown. No sketch either. What happened?:unsure:
-----

Greetings'
N/T'

Maybe' just maybe' someone came forward?? I'm talking along shot here as I don't really know or understand about why AMW' did what they aired? Maybe the police know more than what has been said to news media? Maybe they are trying to scare someone? I'm just throwing what if's out there as I'm truly dumb founded.IMO

Moonlite

[Nen]

I'm telling you, the opp know something and that's why the segment was bumped to next to nothing.

I wonder if you could email someone and ask about it. I just don't want to make it come across like the other stories and people weren't just as important, because they are. It's just strange.

[n/t]

The PA comment she made still bugs me. If she isn't involved then she should ask herself why she seems to get fun or pleasure out of this sometimes. How can she even function let alone joke? This woman loves the attention. But I guess her odd behavior is keeping Tori in the news so keep it up tara.

That's for sure. If it wasn't for Tara, I'm sure many wouldn't be following this case.

[Lovethechild]

I was watching various press conferences with the mother this evening, and transcribed some of her statements which I thought were odd, or just out of place, so to speak.

Here is one example. It was taken from a video at the following link:
http://video.lfpress.ca/video/featured/opp-search-for-tori-stafford-focuses-on-landfill/20276922001

In this portion of the mother's statement, she makes a plea to the abductor(s) of her daughter:

"It was obvious that whoever it was that took her in that video is who has her. So I mean either if it was a woman or if it was a man dressed as a woman, or if that woman took her to a man, or a group of people, I'm praying to God that somebody...([pauses) feels in their heart and soul that what they've done is wrong, and (begins to use the simple present tense to make a plea to the abductor) just drop her off, anywhere, I mean, in a field, somewhere remote, where no one even sees...(pauses) them drop her off. Just drop her off so that somebody can find her and see her."

It was unnatural that she didn't use "you" ("...in a field, somewhere remote, where no ones even sees you drop her off.."). That she paused and used the other ill-fitting pronoun was one indicator to me of possible dishonesty, that she was not really in fact addressing an abductor.


One thing that struck me about this is: why on earth would she say to "drop her off in a remote field"??? Why do I get the feeling thats where she'll be found.:crying:

[Doug]

I'm telling you, the opp know something and that's why the segment was bumped to next to nothing.

I wonder if you could email someone and ask about it. I just don't want to make it come across like the other stories and people weren't just as important, because they are. It's just strange.

Well you may be right , LE have to build a case, but I think we are reading way too much into this , desperate as we all are for some news or a solution. I dont think there was a strategy for this dissapointing AMW segment.
I think the media should really keep looking into the mother and BF's past and keep the heat on them.
Simple question , is it standard practice to give the parents and family Lie dectector tests in a case like this?

[Lovethechild]

Yes- its pretty standard to rule out those closest to the missing person first.

[n/t]

One thing that struck me about this is: why on earth would she say to "drop her off in a remote field"??? Why do I get the feeling thats where she'll be found.:crying:

Chilling indeed. :sad:

[Doug]

Yes- its pretty standard to rule out those closest to the missing person first.

Id love to know how the Drug dealing BF who stole a snow blower faired in that .

[Lovethechild]

Id love to know how the Drug dealing BF who stole a snow blower faired in that .


Tara claimed he "passed". Then later said she didn't know...Which is it?:confused:

[BeetlebrowII]

Well you may be right , LE have to build a case, but I think we are reading way too much into this , desperate as we all are for some news or a solution. I dont think there was a strategy for this dissapointing AMW segment.
I think the media should really keep looking into the mother and BF's past and keep the heat on them.
Simple question , is it standard practice to give the parents and family Lie dectector tests in a case like this?

Simple answer: Yes, the sooner the better so they can be eliminated and LE can focus elsewwhere. Most (a VERY high percentage) of child disappearances involve a family member.

This is common knowledge but I will be glad to furnish a link if so requested :smile:

[Lovethechild]

Also Tara said: she thinks she did alright on the lie detector test..cause if not she would have been detained(not an exect quote)...If she truely believes that...she's pretty clueless as to how LE works):sneaky:

[BeetlebrowII]

Id love to know how the Drug dealing BF who stole a snow blower faired in that .

The case goes to court on 4/28!!! :w00t:

Plus, there were 2 other men arrested with him (I already googled their names but could not find anything a prior drug arrest for 1 of them).

I am assuming these are the boyfriends "friends"?? I wonder if possibly Tori overheard or saw something that put her in a precarious position???
This is getting scary.

[Doug]

Tara claimed he "passed". Then later said she didn't know...Which is it?:confused:

I think she would say anything he told her to. Remember how he seemed to loom in the back ground in an early "PC" she held.

The AMW segment is repeated just now on local CTV news. The keep showing that sketch of the abductor.
Today, both parents shy'd away from the media , maybe it was too windy and Tara would have to wear her hair back in a pony tail.

[BeetlebrowII]

Also Tara said: she thinks she did alright on the lie detector test..cause if not she would have been detained(not an exect quote)...If she truely believes that...she's pretty clueless as to how LE works):sneaky:

I think it is fair to say at this point......and this is MOO, Tara seems to be clueless to alot of things :closedeyes:

[Lovethechild]

I think she would say anything he told her to. Remember how he seemed to loom in the back ground in an early "PC" she held.

The AMW segment is repeated just now on local CTV news. The keep showing that sketch of the abductor.
Today, both parents shy'd away from the media , maybe it was too windy and Tara would have to wear her hair back in a pony tail.


LOL..thanks for the laugh. Much needed.:laugh:

[n/t]

I think she would say anything he told her to. Remember how he seemed to loom in the back ground in an early "PC" she held.

The AMW segment is repeated just now on local CTV news. The keep showing that sketch of the abductor.
Today, both parents shy'd away from the media , maybe it was too windy and Tara would have to wear her hair back in a pony tail.

I was just going to post how quiet it was today. We haven't heard a peep from either side. No online updates except for the AMW thing.

Wasn't there a vigil scheduled for tonight? I thought I read that somewhere.

[Doug]

Also Tara said: she thinks she did alright on the lie detector test..cause if not she would have been detained(not an exect quote)...If she truely believes that...she's pretty clueless as to how LE works):sneaky:

Agreed someone this stupid would think they could get away with something. WTH (what the heck) does "did alright on a lie dectector test. LMAO , someone who knew they were innocent wouldnt have doubts about how they did, either guilty or not, there is not sorta pregnant.

Is OJ still looking for the real killers?

[Lovethechild]

Perhaps the calm before the storm?

[Lovethechild]

Is OJ still looking for the real killers?

Not from jail.:laugh:

[streeter]

One thing that struck me about this is: why on earth would she say to "drop her off in a remote field"??? Why do I get the feeling thats where she'll be found.:crying:

Yes, I'd forgotten about this comment. I made me go 'huh???"

As far as the "personal assistant" comment is concerned, I'm pretty sure someone posted on this board that the page that came from was a hoax. I didn't see the comment or web page myself so I can't say for sure, but I thought someone here debunked it. :confused:

[Doug]

If someone had alot of time , assembling the facts and everything Tara has said over the last couple weeks the results of an analysis of her statements would really be interesting. Way too many inconsistancies, subtle and obvious.
Someone a couple weeks ago, quoted stats on abductions, if this is someone she knew, its becoming more obvious every day.

[nova1998]

In Canada, polygraphs can be administered in missing persons cases as a forensic tool. They were used in the Casey Bohun case, (she went missing from B.C. in 1989) and it was only her biological father who was cleared. The Canadian Supreme Court ruled in 1987, however, that the results could not be used as evidence in court.

[Doug]

Not from jail.:laugh:

Yes but doesnt this remind you of OJ's desperate search for the real killers.

[Doug]

I was just going to post how quiet it was today. We haven't heard a peep from either side. No online updates except for the AMW thing.

Wasn't there a vigil scheduled for tonight? I thought I read that somewhere.

Balloon release with pictures today, Parents not there. Think it was in Woodstock.
London Ont, gathering in a park for Tori Sunday.

Whats up with having bands at these get togethers? Is that normal ? Three times I can think of in this case local bands played. AS well the fundraiser in a week will have bands .

[streeter]

I think she would say anything he told her to. Remember how he seemed to loom in the back ground in an early "PC" she held.

The AMW segment is repeated just now on local CTV news. The keep showing that sketch of the abductor.
Today, both parents shy'd away from the media , maybe it was too windy and Tara would have to wear her hair back in a pony tail.

She doesn't work weekends? :glare:

Fewer viewers on weekends? :glare:

Maybe she went back to unpacking boxes, which she said she was doing when she found Tori's "my mommy is great" artwork that she was showing off? :glare:

After yesterday's meltdown and the tougher questions, maybe this is when the pressers get fewer and farther between? With Tara, who knows. Personally, I think it's kind of nice to have a day off from her.

[Lovethechild]

Yes but doesnt this remind you of OJ's desperate search for the real killers.


Yeah, while he was golfing.

[Lovethechild]

I agree with streeter...The PC's will be fewer and fewer. Tara knows that people are looking at her now. She can't play the "poor me" anymore...no one is buying it. :thumbdown:

[Doug]

Yeah, while he was golfing.

He held press conferences and hires a PD. Anyone with an IQ over 40 knows who the real killer was.
Sociopathic behaviour has a pattern.

[Doug]

He held press conferences and hires a PD. Anyone with an IQ over 40 knows who the real killer was.
Sociopathic behaviour has a pattern.

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

What I am talkin aboot eh!

[Lovethechild]

IDK, I just get the feeling that this isn't gonna end well.:crying: If Tara is hiding her somewhere....When she returned, she'd be able to say where she was and with whom.

[days of yore]

Yes, I'd forgotten about this comment. I made me go 'huh???"

As far as the "personal assistant" comment is concerned, I'm pretty sure someone posted on this board that the page that came from was a hoax. I didn't see the comment or web page myself so I can't say for sure, but I thought someone here debunked it. :confused:

No, it wasn't a joke. I was actually reading the comments on the "help find victoria" page and I saw it. I'm not sure if I put 2 & 2 together to notice that it was Tara who posted it (I was just reading the posts, not who posted them) and it was definitely on there. I remember it because it struck me odd that ANYONE would think it was an appropriate comment to post!

[Lovethechild]

I think that was a rumor.:confused:

[Doug]

Why is it that Tara is not seen shoulder to shoulder with the police? Not that she wouldnt want that, but rather the police seem to distance themselves publically from her.
Fair?

[Lovethechild]

Why is it that Tara is not seen shoulder to shoulder with the police? Not that she wouldnt want that, but rather the police seem to distance themselves publically from her.
Fair?

Just makes me think they suspect her,IMO

[days of yore]

But, what about the thought that she would swear the kids to secrecy in order to secure funds for their future? It just seems all a little too odd. They're probably desparate for funds and as it's been pointed out, many have thought that there was a quick focus on fundraising.

These days with Octo-mom and everyone wanting their 15 minutes of fame, is it really too far out there?

If Tori has been sworn to secrecy with the mom guilting her that it's for her (and her brother's) own good, perhaps when she (God willing) is returned to the 'remote location' with no memory of who and what happened to her, the family thinks they get to keep a wad of cash and perhaps a movie deal?? Delusional??

I watch too much reality tv...I know! :blushing:

[Lovethechild]

Its all entirely possible. With people like Octo-mom and the anthony's....I'm sure some people will want to copy that.:thumbdown:

[nova1998]

This quote was taken from an April 12 interview (CTV news).
The first part of it was recorded on camera, but not the second part; the second part appeared in the article which accompanied it.

This was to be a message for her daughter.
Video portion:
"If she's watching TV; if they're letting her watch TV, and she sees us, like, she knows to call home, to get out from wherever it is that she is.."

The second part appeared in the article and I assume followed the above portion:
"She has to wait until that person or people are sleeping or whatever, find a window, find a phone, find any way you can."

Athough this was to have been a message/plea to her daughter, should her daughter have been listening, the daughter is only referred to in the third person with exception to the portion at the end. As well, her name is never used and there are no messages of comfort or support given to the girl, such as "We love you very much", "We want you back home", etc.

[Lovethechild]

Sounds hinky.

[Lovethechild]

This quote was taken from an April 12 interview (CTV news).
The first part of it was recorded on camera, but not the second part; the second part appeared in the article which accompanied it.

This was to be a message for her daughter.
Video portion:
"If she's watching TV; if they're letting her watch TV, and she sees us, like, she knows to call home, to get out from wherever it is that she is.."

The second part appeared in the article and I assume followed the above portion:
"She has to wait until that person or people are sleeping or whatever, find a window, find a phone, find any way you can."

Athough this was to have been a message/plea to her daughter, should her daughter have been listening, the daughter is only referred to in the third person with exception to the portion at the end. As well, her name is never used and there are no messages of comfort or support given to the girl, such as "We love you very much", "We want you back home", etc.

Also, Is it wise to give Tori a plan that the captures could be hearing on TV as well? IDK, Is it just me?:confused:

[streeter]

Also, Is it wise to give Tori a plan that the captures could be hearing on TV as well? IDK, Is it just me?:confused:

That's how I felt yesterday when Tara was badmouthing the "perp" in her presser. I know I would call them every name in the book, myself, but NOT on camera, where it would surely tick off an already clearly unstable person.

She just doesn't seem to have a common sense filter. :unsure:

[Lovethechild]

Hi Hope4Tori
You know this article that we both saw in today's London Free Press? I noticed another discrepancy. If you still have the this newspaper the section that says

Tori Stafford Case Chronology
Wednesday, April 8

"Tori Stafford attends Oliver Stephens public school on Fyfe Avenue in Woodstock. School officials say she left when school let out at 3:25 p.m., not 3:40 p.m. as police reported."

It goes on to say more but I've never come across anything that says the police reported that time. I came across that Global 16x9 segment and it reports 3:40 p.m. Has anyone come across the police reporting this time, because if they didn't, the London Free Press has some real amateur reporters that don't or couldn't be bothered to cross reference.


I thought the Video of her walking away from school was at 3:32pm?:confused:

[streeter]

Hi, Kinetic! :seeya:

I think I read somewhere in the first week that the Woodstock police weren't going by the timestamp on the surveillance camera because the time was off. I think they added five or six minutes to the time, but I'm not sure.

[Breazy]

Helllo to All! Also, thank you for all the informative, well thought-out posts to read. I've only posted sporadically but have followed the case post by post. I still firmly believe, as I have posted in one of my few posts, that Tara is concealing information and protecting the perp. I first thought it was the BF but now I've gotten to wondering if it could be the "friend" who has been seen in video and pictures. She's always been right behind Tara or right beside Tara but has never been identified or quoted. She seems to have a tough demeanor about herself and appears to be somewhat threatening standing there, like "I'm standing right behind you and you better not say a thing or blah, blah, blah." There's such endless possibilities as to a reason for this woman to take Tori and be threatening to Tara, and with very little knowledge of her and Tara's lives or relationships, it's hard to speculate a reason. I just got a weird vibe when someone on the board first pointed her out in the video where she's sitting on the coach next to Tara. Of course, I've gotten vibes before that have been wrong so who knows? Just another possible scenario . . .

Always praying for Tori's safety.

[aproudmom]

Tori will be featured tonight on AMW

http://www.amw.com/missing_children/brief.cfm?id=64826

Tori :rose:

Hi n/t was hoping this little one would have been found already..all these kids going missing..well I need to read up on this in the morning

[girlfriday]

I've been following this case - but it's my first post about it.

I have a question that I'd ask.

Why did'nt Tori have some sort of backpack / bookbag / lunch bag?

Surely, all her daily school needs could not fit in that small Bratz purse.

It seems abnormal to me. I wait with my child at the bus every day and every child (bar none) takes with them a backpack or book bag whether they are in Kindergarten or Grade 8. It seems old to me that there was no mention of one. :confused:

[juliekan]

One thing that struck me about this is: why on earth would she say to "drop her off in a remote field"??? Why do I get the feeling thats where she'll be found.:crying:

I have mostly kept my mouth shut through this whole thing....

but, when I heard that drop her off in a remote field, where no one can find her, and then she can walk until someone can find her, I was ????? Was she giving directions to someone, or was she just stupid....why not "drop her off within sight of some one's home or a gas station or whatever." AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGG

[Maelstrom5]

Good Morning all,

I was sad to see that AMW only posted Tori's picture and a very brief request for people to help find her. Hopefully they will do a more in-depth profile in a few weeks. Better yet Tori will be found and there will be no need.

If you would like to know more about the women whose remains were found on the West Mesa in Albuquerque, New Mexico which was featured on yesterdays AMW you can do so at the link.

11th Set Of Remains Found On Mesa--Albuquerque, New Mexico--Does Anybody Hear Her?
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendId=143252708

[aproudmom]

I agree. In the last PC, when they were asked about the sketch resembling mom, they could've said something to that effect but they did NOT.

Just saw a thread had been opened for Tori..I have been on Sandras but saw when she went missing..IMO that sketch looks alot like the mom but I am catching up since I had no idea this thread was here..the dad thinks he knows who it is from back in HS?

[aproudmom]

Hi aproudmom
I don't know.
I know I never said they said that
and as Tara would say

"She said, he said, he said, she said."

Forgive me if I didn't quote that correctly, but I'm thinking it won't matter by Tara's next pc anyways.
:tongueside:

This is so sad I saw it when it was on the missing persons thread and even posted it on Sandra's thread..but had not seen until late last night all this stuff that is going on..something is sounding fishy to me and I am still trying to play catch up....I pray she is safe

[n/t]

Just saw a thread had been opened for Tori..I have been on Sandras but saw when she went missing..IMO that sketch looks alot like the mom but I am catching up since I had no idea this thread was here..the dad thinks he knows who it is from back in HS?

Hi mom!

Yes, dad thinks he recognizes the woman in the sketch as someone he went to highschool with years ago.

Many of us posted how that didn't make any sense for many reasons. The woman in the video and sketch is described as being 19-25 years old. Dad is 33 so how can he have gone to highschool with this woman?

Also, how would he recognize someone from 10-15 years ago from a grainy video and a police sketch ?

It doesn't make sense to me. The family believes they know who the kidnapper is. We're all speculating that they too may think it's Tara or someone close to her.

[aproudmom]

Hi mom!

Yes, dad thinks he recognizes the woman in the sketch as someone he went to highschool with years ago.

Many of us posted how that didn't make any sense for many reasons. The woman in the video and sketch is described as being 19-25 years old. Dad is 33 so how can he have gone to highschool with this woman?

Also, how would he recognize someone from 10-15 years ago from a grainy video and a police sketch ?

It doesn't make sense to me. The family believes they know who the kidnapper is. We're all speculating that they too may think it's Tara or someone close to her.

just saw a video of him and thought he looked alittle older than the person in the sketch..

[aproudmom]

Hi mom!

Yes, dad thinks he recognizes the woman in the sketch as someone he went to highschool with years ago.

Many of us posted how that didn't make any sense for many reasons. The woman in the video and sketch is described as being 19-25 years old. Dad is 33 so how can he have gone to highschool with this woman?

Also, how would he recognize someone from 10-15 years ago from a grainy video and a police sketch ?

It doesn't make sense to me. The family believes they know who the kidnapper is. We're all speculating that they too may think it's Tara or someone close to her.

Also n/t I saw the video when it first came out were they able to get a better view cause the one I saw you could not tell the features are they also going with witnesses?she does not look to be afraid to go with this person but it reminded me so much of Carlie B. who was on video at the car wash he kinda just took her arm and she was gone and we all know what happened to her..I think these videos with missing kids really grab more attention it did in Sandra's case a little girl skipping away and then gone..so sad..I pray Tori comes home safe.

[aproudmom]

One thing that struck me about this is: why on earth would she say to "drop her off in a remote field"??? Why do I get the feeling thats where she'll be found.:crying:

:ohmy:ofgs a remote field..maybe a gas station, fire station, hospital, anywhere but a remote field..I have heard it all now..does she have a lawyer if so she needs to let he or she do the talking for her..that is a very odd place to say A remote field..okey dokey

[aproudmom]

I agree with streeter...The PC's will be fewer and fewer. Tara knows that people are looking at her now. She can't play the "poor me" anymore...no one is buying it. :thumbdown:

Sorry guys just trying to get caught up..how tall is tori is there a picture of her next to her mother?

also in the video there are 2 males right there so she had to have known this person or you would have thought she would have a said something to this women not just walk away and seems pretty fast IMO..how does a child go missing in broad daylight and no one sees anything..this is why me and my kids had passwords no one knew just in case someone said I sent them or their dad sent them to pick them up from school..if that person did not know the password they were to scream Fire people pay more attention to someone yelling fire than a child who may just be mad and acting out with a parent..

this video makes me think she knew this person....jmo of course

http://video.lfpress.ca/video/featured/opp-search-for-tori-stafford-focuses-on-landfill/20276922001

[n/t]

Also n/t I saw the video when it first came out were they able to get a better view cause the one I saw you could not tell the features are they also going with witnesses?she does not look to be afraid to go with this person but it reminded me so much of Carlie B. who was on video at the car wash he kinda just took her arm and she was gone and we all know what happened to her..I think these videos with missing kids really grab more attention it did in Sandra's case a little girl skipping away and then gone..so sad..I pray Tori comes home safe.

Yes, they're helpful. At least we have some sort of description of the kidnapper in this case. Hope it's not too late for Tori but as each day passes, I'm becoming less hopeful.

I read an article last night and someone posted about the purse the kidnapper had around her. It's a large strap. They wondered if it was a camera or a piece of luggage?

I'm wondering if that was Tori's school bag?

[n/t]

Sorry guys just trying to get caught up..how tall is tori is there a picture of her next to her mother?

also in the video there are 2 males right there so she had to have known this person or you would have thought she would have a said something to this women not just walk away and seems pretty fast IMO..how does a child go missing in broad daylight and no one sees anything..this is why me and my kids had passwords no one knew just in case someone said I sent them or their dad sent them to pick them up from school..if that person did not know the password they were to scream Fire people pay more attention to someone yelling fire than a child who may just be mad and acting out with a parent..

this video makes me think she knew this person....jmo of course

http://video.lfpress.ca/video/featured/opp-search-for-tori-stafford-focuses-on-landfill/20276922001


Her missing flyer says she's 4'5. Many of us believe it's someone Tori knew. I believe LE also felt that it was someone Tori knew and that's why no Amber Alert was issued.

[n/t]

oops, I think CW locked the links thread by mistake. I'll send her a message.

[days of yore]

I've been following this case - but it's my first post about it.

I have a question that I'd ask.

Why did'nt Tori have some sort of backpack / bookbag / lunch bag?

Surely, all her daily school needs could not fit in that small Bratz purse.

It seems abnormal to me. I wait with my child at the bus every day and every child (bar none) takes with them a backpack or book bag whether they are in Kindergarten or Grade 8. It seems old to me that there was no mention of one. :confused:

Good question. Tara stated that she had a book bag with her. Perhaps this is what the abductor had strapped around her body??? Oops...just noticed that someone else said that, too!

[n/t]

Good question. Tara stated that she had a book bag with her. Perhaps this is what the abductor had strapped around her body??? Oops...just noticed that someone else said that, too!

I think that is Tori's bag she's carrying! Why hasn't the family described her book bag? Did I miss it? I only remember the Bratz purse.

[aproudmom]

Her missing flyer says she's 4'5. Many of us believe it's someone Tori knew. I believe LE also felt that it was someone Tori knew and that's why no Amber Alert was issued.

ok well rules out mom then she is pretty tall..

but I still say this looks alot like the sketch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUp4b6-qBx8&feature=related

in the other one I never saw the van go by..and as they walk past the man the women seems to have her head turned away from him..this is so odd I pray no one they knew had anything to do with this but as each day goes by..the harder it will get..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6FyN3Ct1Kg&feature=related

I also saw one is this her husband he seems to really be hiding his face or perhaps it is me reading into it way to much..not sure the date on it but I am sorry I see NO tears..and I know people react in different ways so I will leave it at that...-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bovi1U9nm9M&feature=related

[n/t]

ok well rules out mom then she is pretty tall..

but I still say this looks alot like the sketch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUp4b6-qBx8&feature=related

in the other one I never saw the van go by..and as they walk past the man the women seems to have her head turned away from him..this is so odd I pray no one they knew had anything to do with this but as each day goes by..the harder it will get..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6FyN3Ct1Kg&feature=related

I also saw one is this her husband he seems to really be hiding his face or perhaps it is me reading into it way to much..not sure the date on it but I am sorry I see NO tears..and I know people react in different ways so I will leave it at that...-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bovi1U9nm9M&feature=related


Many believe the kidnapper's description is wrong. They believe the woman is taller than 5'1 - 5'3. Some have calculated that she could be 5'7 - 5'9 based on Tori's height and the kidnapper seen in the video.

[n/t]

mom, that's the bf in the video and Daryn, Tori's 11 year old brother is also in that video.

I don't see tears either. Someone posted that she was reminded of Penny Boudreau when viewing it. I agree.

I hope I'm wrong and Tori is still alive.

[days of yore]

When you go to the page, under the media player, there are 3 video choices on this page. Chose the middle one (around 10minutes long), where Tara speaks with her aunt about Tori, the 'tree of hope' that was left on her porch and the fundraiser.

Many disturbing things...
1) Full makeup
2) Joking with the aunt
3) No tears
4) Tara tells us that the tree was found by her 10 year old son who WAS LEAVING THE HOUSE BY HIMSELF TO GO OUT AND PLAY??? :scared: I'm sorry, but if I just lost a child, I sure as h$#l wouldn't be letting the other one out of my sight!!
5) Large focus on the fundraiser, which Tara passing on to her Aunt to mention (ya, right...sounds bad if you say it yourself??) and then chimes in to clarify the location of the event!!!
6) A lot of blinking, looking off to the left and fake expressions of distress
7) Answers are too pat and quick...(ie. what if Tori is found before the event??) Enough said. See for yourself...

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090420/Tori_missing_090420/20090420?hub=Toronto

[JD1974]

ok well rules out mom then she is pretty tall..

but I still say this looks alot like the sketch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUp4b6-qBx8&feature=related

in the other one I never saw the van go by..and as they walk past the man the women seems to have her head turned away from him..this is so odd I pray no one they knew had anything to do with this but as each day goes by..the harder it will get..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6FyN3Ct1Kg&feature=related

I also saw one is this her husband he seems to really be hiding his face or perhaps it is me reading into it way to much..not sure the date on it but I am sorry I see NO tears..and I know people react in different ways so I will leave it at that...-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bovi1U9nm9M&feature=related

Hi aproudmom...

They changed the flyer and website to put a new discription saying the kidnapper could be 5'7 but I think someone posted the link and it had been changed again! This case is so confusing.


I am not sure about the kidnapper carrying the backpack though, those usually have short straps. Although Tara described down to a T what was in the backpack...how does she know what was in it? Was it left at the school? Or did she just assume the same things would be in it?

Also does anyone know if Tori changed schools or just residences? I am hearing Tori knew how to get home because she had rode her bike home from there, but had only lived in the house for 6 days...

[JD1974]

Too late to edit, I may have gotten the back pack and the Bratz purse confused, now I have to go look for where I seen/read it...

[JD1974]

Yes she is carrying a small purple bratz logo purse. No mention of a back pack, woman was wearing her bag diagonal across her body. Black straps over a white Puffy coat.

I cannot believe she said That she is being a hellion for "them". This is another case, where it is totally a red flag and inappropriate for anyone to use the word "THEM" in an investigative sense in a missing person case. There is no THEM. ?But the mother continues to use this word.

Just who does she think "them" or 'they' are in this case? Now she thinks more than one person has her child? I suspect she will be hauled in for questioning very soon, and warrants for her PC would be a good idea about now, CN LE. :(

I see too many similarities with her and Ms McCann actually. IMO this is another mother who badly wants, needs, and loves the attention that is garnered from her "missing" or murdered child. Bike Rides, Fund Raisers, Heck, where are the Tshirts and wrist bands? No Cuddle cat this time?
Why hasn't LE gone through her home with a fine tooth comb? What is taking so long for them to get a warrant for the PCs in that home?

ITA with everything you said! I keep having McCann flashbacks also...

[Hope4Tori]

good morning everybody!:)

I was reading all the posts as there seems to be no news from the family, press or police since Firday. The AMW thing was so brief I truly thought it was a tralier for the real segment - but sadly, I was wrong.

I know I probably seem like the devil's advocate when expressing my opinions with regards to Tara and my opinion that she is not involved - I too have suspicions but I just don't see the evidence to make a final judgement about anyone in the case of Tori's abduction.

As far as the comment from Tara when she appealed to Tori's abductor and suggested that the person/people let Tori go - drop her off in a field - I watched that pc and it immediately made me wonder - what is she thinking? - I thought about how terrifying that would be for any child to be left in the middle of the wilderness alone after having already been kidnapped and traumatized - BUT - what if Tara's motive for suggesting such a thing was to give the perpetrator an option not to be caught?

Honestly, that's what I thought she was tryiing to do - give the bad person a way out without having to worry about getting caught and without having to resort to harming Tori further.

I see Tara as a very desperate person in this circumstance. I do conclude that she must be a suspect by the police as she is by most people commenting on this case, because the police let her ramble on without any guidance. I wonder if this family was more "middle-class" - less rough-around-the-edges types if the situation would be different. I really think that if they were perceived as more stable, articulate - like what people like to think of as the "average family", they would not be nearly as suspicious and perhaps the police would offer them more support.

If it turns out that Tara and/or any family member has not got any involvement in this crime, wouldn't it be really horrible to realize what additional injustices people put them through while they were suffering through the disappearance of Tori?

There are countless questions that need to be asked - and I think the police need to be answering some of them - as well as the press needs to be asking the family/friends/acquaintances. Apparently the press presence at the last press conference held by Tara on Friday had a third of the reporters as compared to the days prior. I'll try to look up the link to support that - I remember reading it yesterday. Tara has stated that she wants the press to keep focusing on Tori's abduction.

Agreed - there are curiosities in how Tar refers to Tori without using her name - how she seems sometimes more concerned about her son - how she makes flippant comments seemingly without much thought about the repercussions - but while these things among many others may cause suspicion and feed speculation, for me, that's all it is at this point.

I have to go buy smokes - I'll check in again soon. I'd like a miracle for Tori in the meantime - one can always hope!:smile:

[nova1998]

Here is the surveillance tape I watched on Youtube. The times I refer to are based on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6FyN3Ct1Kg&feature=related

At 0.18 (and I paused it here) you see the woman and girl enter the frame. Against the black window of the building across the road, you can see that her left arm is bent, and what appears to be her hand in the pocket of her jacket.Her elbow is extended back at an angle. The jacket, appears to be open, as a dark vertical line is going down. It also looks like there is a hood, or some kind of large collar.

From 0.18 to 0.24, you can see her right arm moving back and forth, but her left arm remains the same - bent and with the corresponding shadow.

From 0.24 to 1.11, you can still see her right arm moving back and forth, and her left arm in the same position.

At the 1.11 point, when she is preparing to cross the street, you can suddenly see the dark diagonal line on the back of her jacket against the black window. However, it doesn't correspond with anything coming up on the lefthand side at the front of her jacket, according to the frames starting at 0.18.

I believe that the dark diagonal line as seen on the back of the jacket might be a crease in the back of her jacket created by the hood or type of collar and the position of her bent arm pressing against that side of the jacket, and the subsequent shadow effects made by the sun.

I tried this with a jacket I have which is also loose-fitting and which has a hood. When I put left the jacket unzipped, bent my elbow and extended it back a bit and put my hand in the pocket - it created the exact same effect - a dark diagonal line starting at the upper righthand corner, going down towards the pocket area. Either that, or it is in fact a part of the jacket design, with a diagonal stripe at the back. I looked carefully over and over, and I didn't get the impression that she was carrying anything.

[days of yore]

Here is the surveillance tape I watched on Youtube. The times I refer to are based on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6FyN3Ct1Kg&feature=related

At 0.18 (and I paused it here) you see the woman and girl enter the frame. Against the black window of the building across the road, you can see that her left arm is bent, and what appears to be her hand in the pocket of her jacket.Her elbow is extended back at an angle. The jacket, appears to be open, as a dark vertical line is going down. It also looks like there is a hood, or some kind of large collar.

From 0.18 to 0.24, you can see her right arm moving back and forth, but her left arm remains the same - bent and with the corresponding shadow.

From 0.24 to 1.11, you can still see her right arm moving back and forth, and her left arm in the same position.

At the 1.11 point, when she is preparing to cross the street, you can suddenly see the dark diagonal line on the back of her jacket against the black window. However, it doesn't correspond with anything coming up on the lefthand side at the front of her jacket, according to the frames starting at 0.18.

I believe that the dark diagonal line as seen on the back of the jacket might be a crease in the back of her jacket created by the hood or type of collar and the position of her bent arm pressing against that side of the jacket, and the subsequent shadow effects made by the sun.

I tried this with a jacket I have which is also loose-fitting and which has a hood. When I put left the jacket unzipped, bent my elbow and extended it back a bit and put my hand in the pocket - it created the exact same effect - a dark diagonal line starting at the upper righthand corner, going down towards the pocket area. Either that, or it is in fact a part of the jacket design, with a diagonal stripe at the back. I looked carefully over and over, and I didn't get the impression that she was carrying anything.


Interesting thoughts. I also watched the video several times and am confused by this diagonal line. Throughout the majority of the video, it looks like the diagonal line is 'under' her arm, rather than over the shoulder, like a bag is usually carried. It isn't until the end where her back is almost completely to the camera, does it appear to be over the shoulder...

[Hope4Tori]

Interesting thoughts. I also watched the video several times and am confused by this diagonal line. Throughout the majority of the video, it looks like the diagonal line is 'under' her arm, rather than over the shoulder, like a bag is usually carried. It isn't until the end where her back is almost completely to the camera, does it appear to be over the shoulder...

Hi Days of Yore and Nova 1998

In the earlier days of the investigation it was often speculated by many people that the black line/bag looked like the kind of bag that is used to carry yoga mats. Tori's mother has been reported to have worked at a fitness centre which caused even more speculation. I have no idea what a yoga mat carrying bag would look like. I also wonder if the police checked into the fitness place where Tara worked. I wonder so many things - wish we all had more information.

On the O.P.P. website a black bag is/was? mentioned as a descriptor of the suspect. If the eyewitness was the man/woman picking up the others child in the video, they (he/she) didn't appear to look back at the woman but maybe after they (he/she and child) turned around they noticed it and perhaps the bag was seen by an eyewitness. That video is very difficult to see details!

As for the use of "them" "they" etc. - I do that myself, as do many people when referring to someone they don't know. And think about it - it is common to hear people say "They said this . . . They always act funny" etc. when in fact they (I'm doing it now and did it above) actually mean a person or people - it could mean singular or plural - when referring to the general and not specifically one person. Am I making my point or have I totally confused you? Sorry if I've not explained what I mean very clearly.

Top 3 stories in today's 680 radio news for Toronto:

Bad thunder/rain storm from yesterday caused a lot of damage

Swine Flu - potential pandemic?

Major Michelle Mendes, 30, fallen Canadian soldier to come home today along the Highway of Heroes - Mendes is the 118th soldier to die in the Afghan mission, which began in 2002.

I don't see anything in the Toronto Star about Tori today.

The press needs to stay involved - I hope Tori is found today!:)

[girlfriday]

Here is the surveillance tape I watched on Youtube. The times I refer to are based on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6FyN3Ct1Kg&feature=related

At 0.18 (and I paused it here) you see the woman and girl enter the frame. Against the black window of the building across the road, you can see that her left arm is bent, and what appears to be her hand in the pocket of her jacket.Her elbow is extended back at an angle. The jacket, appears to be open, as a dark vertical line is going down. It also looks like there is a hood, or some kind of large collar.

From 0.18 to 0.24, you can see her right arm moving back and forth, but her left arm remains the same - bent and with the corresponding shadow.

From 0.24 to 1.11, you can still see her right arm moving back and forth, and her left arm in the same position.

At the 1.11 point, when she is preparing to cross the street, you can suddenly see the dark diagonal line on the back of her jacket against the black window. However, it doesn't correspond with anything coming up on the lefthand side at the front of her jacket, according to the frames starting at 0.18.

I believe that the dark diagonal line as seen on the back of the jacket might be a crease in the back of her jacket created by the hood or type of collar and the position of her bent arm pressing against that side of the jacket, and the subsequent shadow effects made by the sun.

I tried this with a jacket I have which is also loose-fitting and which has a hood. When I put left the jacket unzipped, bent my elbow and extended it back a bit and put my hand in the pocket - it created the exact same effect - a dark diagonal line starting at the upper righthand corner, going down towards the pocket area. Either that, or it is in fact a part of the jacket design, with a diagonal stripe at the back. I looked carefully over and over, and I didn't get the impression that she was carrying anything.

Something about that clip strikes me as odd too - and is what got me wondering if that was a backpack.

The clip seems as if it could be a merge of more than one video because of the strap and also Tori's skirt colour appears to change - but the video is so pixelated that it is hard to be certain about much of it. But, I agree that something about the video does seem off to the eye - but it might just be the poor resolution and lighting and colour changes can happen in pixelated digital images and the strap issue might just be that a fold or hood is hiding the strap until the women is turning so her back is facing the camera.

It is interesting that the physical description of the perp has been modified.

[girlfriday]

I hope that a reporter at one of the daily press conferences SPECIFICALLY asks Tara:

1. Did Tori typically carry a backpack / book bag / lunch bag - did she leave home with one that day?

2. Did Tara herself, or anyone other than her brother ever WALK Tori home from School? If so, when was the last time?

3. How well did Tara know the families of the girls who were supposed to come home with Tori to watch a movie that day? How did the obvious change in those plans get resolved on a moments notice (did the other girls show up at Tori's home or stay at school waiting to leave with Tori)?

[BeetlebrowII]

Yes she is carrying a small purple bratz logo purse. No mention of a back pack, woman was wearing her bag diagonal across her body. Black straps over a white Puffy coat.

I cannot believe she said That she is being a hellion for "them". This is another case, where it is totally a red flag and inappropriate for anyone to use the word "THEM" in an investigative sense in a missing person case. There is no THEM. ?But the mother continues to use this word.

Just who does she think "them" or 'they' are in this case? Now she thinks more than one person has her child? I suspect she will be hauled in for questioning very soon, and warrants for her PC would be a good idea about now, CN LE. :(

I see too many similarities with her and Ms McCann actually. IMO this is another mother who badly wants, needs, and loves the attention that is garnered from her "missing" or murdered child. Bike Rides, Fund Raisers, Heck, where are the Tshirts and wrist bands? No Cuddle cat this time?
Why hasn't LE gone through her home with a fine tooth comb? What is taking so long for them to get a warrant for the PCs in that home?

Hi Bug,

What you said is why I feel like I can barely post anymore. I was hopeful LE had more but I have come to the conclusion that they have acted like the keystone cops. Here is why I don't think the LE is even close.....

1. The obvious bungling of the Amber Alert.
2. Waited a long period of time before using a lie detector on family.
3. Oxford Co. police chief not addressing the public until case is handed over to Canadian LE. And when addressing the public cannot put a sentence together, is visibly shaking and seems generally inept.

4. How many weeks before sketch of suspect is finally released??
5. No correct timeline, correct mom or grandma LE contact person, correct weight and height of victim, correct actions that family expected Tori to take to get home from school.
6. CHANGES the height range of suspect SIGNIFICANTLY on LE website and DOES NOT report to news that the stats have been changed.

7. Not interrogating mom/mom's family even though it is obvious that statements mother has made are inconsistent. Tara even said in the next to last interview that police had still not "formally" interviewed her...what the...
8. Has LE asked Tara if they could search her home/car/area around home with police/dogs????? Additionally search boyfriends car???.
9. Has LE interviewed Daryn?....asked him to take lie detector test.
10. Why do we not know where Tara/Boyfriend are employed?.

:mad: I will say this again......the public is LE's best friend when looking for a child. But the public cannot help LE when information about the disappearance is so confusing. AND confusion as to the facts of the abduction will only lead to MORE inaccurate tips that LE has to spend time following up.

It is obvious to me that someone knows something. It is time for some major questioning. If LE is sitting back and waiting for someone to come foward or screw up I have to say that that seems like an incredibly inappropriate tactic considering there is an 8 year old girl out there somewhere!!

I am getting so depressed.......if this girl is ever found I have the feeling that even though there will be obvious suspects, an inept investigation will hamper any chance that the perp will come to justice.

I am just sitting here crying for this sweet girl.

[nova1998]

Hi Bettlebrow II,

I don't believe the mother, the father, nor the father are employed at the moment.
The biological father is attending school. And the boyfriend recently appeared in court on a theft charge (theft of a snowblower).

[nova1998]

correction:
I meant to say,
I don't believe the mother, BOYFRIEND, nor father are working at the moment.

[Hope4Tori]

Hi Bug,

What you said is why I feel like I can barely post anymore. I was hopeful LE had more but I have come to the conclusion that they have acted like the keystone cops. Here is why I don't think the LE is even close.....

1. The obvious bungling of the Amber Alert.
2. Waited a long period of time before using a lie detector on family.
3. Oxford Co. police chief not addressing the public until case is handed over to Canadian LE. And when addressing the public cannot put a sentence together, is visibly shaking and seems generally inept.

4. How many weeks before sketch of suspect is finally released??
5. No correct timeline, correct mom or grandma LE contact person, correct weight and height of victim, correct actions that family expected Tori to take to get home from school.
6. CHANGES the height range of suspect SIGNIFICANTLY on LE website and DOES NOT report to news that the stats have been changed.

7. Not interrogating mom/mom's family even though it is obvious that statements mother has made are inconsistent. Tara even said in the next to last interview that police had still not "formally" interviewed her...what the...
8. Has LE asked Tara if they could search her home/car/area around home with police/dogs????? Additionally search boyfriends car???.
9. Has LE interviewed Daryn?....asked him to take lie detector test.
10. Why do we not know where Tara/Boyfriend are employed?.

:mad: I will say this again......the public is LE's best friend when looking for a child. But the public cannot help LE when information about the disappearance is so confusing. AND confusion as to the facts of the abduction will only lead to MORE inaccurate tips that LE has to spend time following up.

It is obvious to me that someone knows something. It is time for some major questioning. If LE is sitting back and waiting for someone to come foward or screw up I have to say that that seems like an incredibly inappropriate tactic considering there is an 8 year old girl out there somewhere!!

I am getting so depressed.......if this girl is ever found I have the feeling that even though there will be obvious suspects, an inept investigation will hamper any chance that the perp will come to justice.

I am just sitting here crying for this sweet girl.

Oh BeetlebrowII - I know how you feel!:sad:

1. - Yes it should have been done as soon as she was reported missing even though 2 1/2 hours had passed since the end of the school day! It may not have made a difference, but we will never know!

2. Yes - and what's the point if the results are not released to the public so suspicions can be placed appropriately - or - persons of interest cleared so the public could look elsewhere.

3. - Yes - I hate to sound judgemental, but I got the feeling that the only thing local police was interested in doing, the day the announcement came down about the O.P.P. involvement, was damage control for their role in the investigation to date - and the O.P.P. lead, Bill Renton has not inspired confidence either. The police may in fact be doing their best, but how can anyone say for sure with so little information being shared? And may I remind people that the mother was practically begging the police to call Tori's disappearance and abduction from the beginning and the lady police spokesperson actually said there was no indication of foul play - kept insisting that Tori appeared to go "willingly" with the suspect (which angered me because I expecte the police to know how kidnappers could lure a child away WITHOUT causing a struggle) and that some people who take children do so because they "love" them. Those kind of beliefs coming from any professional LE blew my mind!

5. - Agreed - The police - AND - the press should have worked harder to ask/report on these critical details to clearly establish the timeline for the record.

6. - Not well thought out at all and makes me wonder even more about their capacity to conduct a thorough investigation - although I don't know - was the press not informed of the changes by police?? If they were informed, did they update the info and spread the news? I'm not sure.

7. - Yes, unless they have done formal interviews and instructed her and ALL the family not to comment publically. And I would add the father/stepfather and ALL their family/friends and associates of all sides should be under the same scrutiny. I keep thinking this MUST have been done because it has been 18 days now and it is hard to fathom that the police would not have done this!

8. - Yes but again I would add the father and his relations/associates. And I do recall hearing that police dogs were used but I cannot recall in what capacity they were used to search. If my memory is correct dogs were used sometime in the first few days/Easter weekend.

9. Yes - he should have been interviewed too - I don't know about a lie detector test. That would be a harder call because he is so young, and from my perspective, he is probably very traumatized by Tori's abduction.

10. - Yes - and more about Rodney's scheduled visit that evening? And who exactly and at what time did Tara and her Mom (grandma) contact when they did think Tori was missing? Who is the uncle that Tori was supposed to visit after school? Was Daryn expected to go to the uncle's house too? Tara said Daryn got home at 4:15 pm and was alone and that's when she/they thought she would be along soon but then she never showed up. When she said Daryn arrived "home" where was that - her house - the uncle's house? What are the alibis between 3:25 pm and 6:00pm for all the potential suspects? Have the police asked Tara to put on the white coat that they purportedly took from her and have her walk by that same video camera at the high school with another child of Tori's height 4'5"? That would be very interesting to see and to compare with the actual abduction video. If she is innocent she should want to cooperate with such a request.

11.But the public cannot help LE when information about the disappearance is so confusing. AND confusion as to the facts of the abduction will only lead to MORE inaccurate tips that LE has to spend time following up. - Hello - exactly!

12. It is obvious to me that someone knows something. It is time for some major questioning. If LE is sitting back and waiting for someone to come foward or screw up I have to say that that seems like an incredibly inappropriate tactic considering there is an 8 year old girl out there somewhere!! -- I completely agree with you!

I'm exhausted and discouraged - I really wonder if an answer will be found - but I do so hope it will and Tori will be found alive and well!

Thanks for your comments BeetlebrowII - hang in there!:smile:

[Hope4Tori]

And one more thing - what about phone (land line/cell) records of all potential known suspects? And the computers too should have been confiscated, in my opinion. I would think in this day and age the computer online activity would be a priority on the list of things to check out. Who knows - maybe these things are/were being done.

What about photographers in the area - they often do model searches and the day before she went missing the school photos were taken. I'm not pointing fingers - just hoping all possibilities are being considered by the police and everyone who is trying to help. The police are apparently following up on over 1500 tips. I would like to know how many of those tips have been useful and how many have been ruled out to date.

Tori must be found - let's hope the police investigation proves successful - and soon - for her sake and for all those who love her!:)

[streeter]

Hello streeter!!
So I guess if they have a general time huh?

What's your prediction for Monday? Think Tara will have another pc? I've already been thinking about if she does happen to. Understandably she will be disappointed about AMWs very brief, not even segment.

I'm not quite sure where to put links anymore streeter but also in this London Free Press (http://www.lfpress.com/specialreports/missing.html) article Tara sounds so detached and I think you might have already covered this streeter.

When Tara was asked what she thought/felt about the press turn outs dwindling down she said she thought it was awful and goes on to say

"There is a little girl that's missing...."

This has also been caught on video.

IMO it's odd Tara didn't say something like "My little girl is missing!!!" or "My daughter Tori is missing!!!"

It's just....

"...a little girl that's missing....."

I'll let you read that newspaper article just in case you haven't come across it yet

I agree, Kinetic. She consistently talks about Tori as an object.

My prediction for Monday is that something will come out of this impromptu meeting she had with her favourite blonde reporter on Friday. Remember at the end of the news conference she asked the woman to come in her house after everyone else left? I think something will come of that. I think this woman is the sympathetic female voice I keep hearing in the presser videos, i.e. "Tara, you seem so down today." I think Tara is going to talk exclusively to this woman now that the other reporters have become big meanies.

[iveyguy]

Hope4Tori & BeetlebrowII,

You raise great points, but I just can't believe -- maybe I just don't WANT to believe -- that LE has been that incompetent & indifferent in this case. There are two big unknowns IMO:

1. What happened between 3:25 pm (when school let out) and 6:02 pm when Tori's grandmother went to the police station to report her missing?

2. What do the police know that the public don't about the backgrounds of each of the family member (mom, boyfriend, dad, dad's family)? What we do know about them as fact certainly prompts further questions.

And I just have to believe based on all that I've read and on how LE has acted that there is a significant piece of information that they know, but the public does not. Obviously it's not enough to lead to an arrest, but it could point in a very clear direction. And that would explain SO MUCH about why LE has acted the way they have.

I think they have a suspect and are waiting for him or her to make a mistake. This was exactly the tactic they used in the Karissa Boudreau case, eventually using undercover agents to finally crack the case.

[Hope4Tori]

Hope4Tori & BeetlebrowII,

You raise great points, but I just can't believe -- maybe I just don't WANT to believe -- that LE has been that incompetent & indifferent in this case. There are two big unknowns IMO:

1. What happened between 3:25 pm (when school let out) and 6:02 pm when Tori's grandmother went to the police station to report her missing?

2. What do the police know that the public don't about the backgrounds of each of the family member (mom, boyfriend, dad, dad's family)? What we do know about them as fact certainly prompts further questions.

And I just have to believe based on all that I've read and on how LE has acted that there is a significant piece of information that they know, but the public does not. Obviously it's not enough to lead to an arrest, but it could point in a very clear direction. And that would explain SO MUCH about why LE has acted the way they have.

I think they have a suspect and are waiting for him or her to make a mistake. This was exactly the tactic they used in the Karissa Boudreau case, eventually using undercover agents to finally crack the case.

Hey iveyguy!:) I hope your thoughts/instincts are right about the police and whatever it is that the police do know, that has not been made public, leads to Tori - and hopefully she will be found alive! What scares me is how long this has gone on - as time goes on it is hard to hope for the best for Tori when all we have is speculation to go on. I cannot really have confidence that the police are onto someone, but I do hope they are! I would also hope that the safe return of Tori is their most utmost important priority even if that meant they had to jeopardize gathering evidence for the case in terms of prosecuting whomever has taken her.

Thanks for your comments! By the way, all day the news on CP24 is about the swine flu - WHO worldwide alert etc. - so I wonder if the media will give Tara an opportunity to do her usual 1:00 pm press conference tomorrow - and I wonder why none of the family spoke out over the weekend.

[doctor_J]

OK, I haven't read every single post but 2 things---

What's with MacDonald's sunglasses???? Geez it's like she's got a mask on in every interview. When you can see her eyes, they are dry, not red or swollen, even early on.

Why haven't they determined the exact height of the abductor (at least the women in the video)??? Any mathematician could determine her height, or a geomatrist, from the known height of surrounding objects, even if Tori's exact height is unknown. This is a big problem for me. Tell the public the height of the woman in the video!! Wish I knew the height of the building posts or doors, or the man or the van, I could calculate her height myself.

[streeter]

Regarding the police work, I'm somewhere in the middle of you guys. :smile:

I think Woodstock police bungled the first week. I think OPP took it over and are now trying to build a case from a very poorly constructed base. My opinion is based on Maitland's strange statements the first week about Tori not struggling so it couldn't be an abduction, and the chief's inarticulate press conference. I had to think that this guy was used to old school police work, traffic violations and B&E's. I think this case was way out of their league, and they didn't know how to deal with it.

OPP had to pick up the pieces, and I think they are now holding their cards close. I think they suspect Tara or the BF, but because of early bungling, they are forced to create an environment where Tara, hopefully, breaks. The focus on the forensic dig in the landfill tells me that they know something, but they cannot act upon it for some reason. I have to think that reason is early mistakes in the investigation.

[streeter]

Respectfully snipped...Thanks for your comments! By the way, all day the news on CP24 is about the swine flu - WHO worldwide alert etc. - so I wonder if the media will give Tara an opportunity to do her usual 1:00 pm press conference tomorrow - and I wonder why none of the family spoke out over the weekend.

The swine flu will be to week 3 of this case what Billy Bob Thorton was to week 1 of this case. :sneaky:

[Hope4Tori]

The swine flu will be to week 3 of this case what Billy Bob Thorton was to week 1 of this case. :sneaky:

I'm not sure I understand Streeter - Do you mean the swine flu coverage will be a joke? or be quickly forgotten? If that's what you mean, I don't think so - it's the only thing CP24 is talking about all day long - but then again it's a Sunday.

Or maybe I am wrong because I have no idea what you meant - please spell it out for me - thanks!:)

[streeter]

I'm not sure I understand Streeter - Do you mean the swine flu coverage will be a joke? or be quickly forgotten? If that's what you mean, I don't think so - it's the only thing CP24 is talking about all day long - but then again it's a Sunday.

Or maybe I am wrong because I have no idea what you meant - please spell it out for me - thanks!:)

LOL sorry, Hope4Tori.

What I mean is, during the first week Tori coverage was shelved because of Billy Bob Thorton's CBC radio rant. In the days after Tori went missing, she was a footnote on news website, while Billy Bob Thorton was front and center.

After that finally died down, Tori became the lead story, as she should be.

Today, there are few mentions of Tori, while the swine flu takes the helm, and will likely continue to do so as the week goes on and more cases come to light, which is inevitable.

I'm really afraid that Tori is going to be a footnote again. If any swine flu cases appear in the GTA, she will surely be page five news, which saddens and scares me.

[Hope4Tori]

LOL sorry, Hope4Tori.

What I mean is, during the first week Tori coverage was shelved because of Billy Bob Thorton's CBC radio rant. In the days after Tori went missing, she was a footnote on news website, while Billy Bob Thorton was front and center.

After that finally died down, Tori became the lead story, as she should be.

Today, there are few mentions of Tori, while the swine flu takes the helm, and will likely continue to do so as the week goes on and more cases come to light, which is inevitable.

I'm really afraid that Tori is going to be a footnote again. If any swine flu cases appear in the GTA, she will surely be page five news, which saddens and scares me.


Hey Streeter - thanks very much for the explanation!:thumbup:- I felt like I must be the biggest idiot not to clue in on what you meant!

Well, the swine flu is very scary when I think of how the SARS outbreak effected our city - Toronto - but I think they learned a lot about how poorly that outbreak was handled, and they are trying to make sure the correct information is given in a timely and serious manner should this swine flu turn out to be similar - which I sure hope it does not!

Yes, ITA Tori will become far less 'newsworthy' in light of the swine flu news and other pertinent news of the day. ITA with you again - the prospects for keeping Tori's abduction front and centre in the media is looking less likely and it is indeed scary and sad if that is true. I don't know, but I guess at this point, anyone with information that could actually be helpful would have presumably contacted the police already and it must be just a matter of time before the case is solved. How can the public interest in Tori's case make a difference at this late stage? I don't normally follow abduction cases, so I would be interested in your thoughts.

One more thing - I find it odd that Billy Bob Thorton could capture anyone's interest for more than a few seconds? Who cares!

Thanks Streeter!:smile:

[Orleaner12]

I personally think that the police have asked and have the info on all the questions that the above posters are asking. I think that they are not releasing this info to the public as they do in the US. The Cdn. police always seem to be more closed mouth about crimes and the info is only released once a trial is over. Whoever that person was in the video seems to be in a hurry and the little one is having trouble keeping up with her.

[days of yore]

I personally think that the police have asked and have the info on all the questions that the above posters are asking. I think that they are not releasing this info to the public as they do in the US. The Cdn. police always seem to be more closed mouth about crimes and the info is only released once a trial is over. Whoever that person was in the video seems to be in a hurry and the little one is having trouble keeping up with her.

I agree. At one point, early in the video, Victoria is actually a few steps in front of the abductor. Then it changes where the abductor is moving faster. Still wreaks of familiarity...

[BeetlebrowII]

OK, I haven't read every single post but 2 things---

What's with MacDonald's sunglasses???? Geez it's like she's got a mask on in every interview. When you can see her eyes, they are dry, not red or swollen, even early on.

Why haven't they determined the exact height of the abductor (at least the women in the video)??? Any mathematician could determine her height, or a geomatrist, from the known height of surrounding objects, even if Tori's exact height is unknown. This is a big problem for me. Tell the public the height of the woman in the video!! Wish I knew the height of the building posts or doors, or the man or the van, I could calculate her height myself.

There is a picture of Tori taken at school, a day before her abduction, that shows Tori sitting on the ground leaning up against a plain wooden box with her arm on the box. The picture shows her entire body head to toe. Why cant police call the school photographer and get the measurements of the box, From there the calculations would be easy using the picture and a computer. This is not astro-physics. :smile:

[BeetlebrowII]

Oh BeetlebrowII - I know how you feel!:sad:

1. - Yes it should have been done as soon as she was reported missing even though 2 1/2 hours had passed since the end of the school day! It may not have made a difference, but we will never know!

2. Yes - and what's the point if the results are not released to the public so suspicions can be placed appropriately - or - persons of interest cleared so the public could look elsewhere.

3. - Yes - I hate to sound judgemental, but I got the feeling that the only thing local police was interested in doing, the day the announcement came down about the O.P.P. involvement, was damage control for their role in the investigation to date - and the O.P.P. lead, Bill Renton has not inspired confidence either. The police may in fact be doing their best, but how can anyone say for sure with so little information being shared? And may I remind people that the mother was practically begging the police to call Tori's disappearance and abduction from the beginning and the lady police spokesperson actually said there was no indication of foul play - kept insisting that Tori appeared to go "willingly" with the suspect (which angered me because I expecte the police to know how kidnappers could lure a child away WITHOUT causing a struggle) and that some people who take children do so because they "love" them. Those kind of beliefs coming from any professional LE blew my mind!

5. - Agreed - The police - AND - the press should have worked harder to ask/report on these critical details to clearly establish the timeline for the record.

6. - Not well thought out at all and makes me wonder even more about their capacity to conduct a thorough investigation - although I don't know - was the press not informed of the changes by police?? If they were informed, did they update the info and spread the news? I'm not sure.

7. - Yes, unless they have done formal interviews and instructed her and ALL the family not to comment publically. And I would add the father/stepfather and ALL their family/friends and associates of all sides should be under the same scrutiny. I keep thinking this MUST have been done because it has been 18 days now and it is hard to fathom that the police would not have done this!

8. - Yes but again I would add the father and his relations/associates. And I do recall hearing that police dogs were used but I cannot recall in what capacity they were used to search. If my memory is correct dogs were used sometime in the first few days/Easter weekend.

9. Yes - he should have been interviewed too - I don't know about a lie detector test. That would be a harder call because he is so young, and from my perspective, he is probably very traumatized by Tori's abduction.

10. - Yes - and more about Rodney's scheduled visit that evening? And who exactly and at what time did Tara and her Mom (grandma) contact when they did think Tori was missing? Who is the uncle that Tori was supposed to visit after school? Was Daryn expected to go to the uncle's house too? Tara said Daryn got home at 4:15 pm and was alone and that's when she/they thought she would be along soon but then she never showed up. When she said Daryn arrived "home" where was that - her house - the uncle's house? What are the alibis between 3:25 pm and 6:00pm for all the potential suspects? Have the police asked Tara to put on the white coat that they purportedly took from her and have her walk by that same video camera at the high school with another child of Tori's height 4'5"? That would be very interesting to see and to compare with the actual abduction video. If she is innocent she should want to cooperate with such a request.

11.But the public cannot help LE when information about the disappearance is so confusing. AND confusion as to the facts of the abduction will only lead to MORE inaccurate tips that LE has to spend time following up. - Hello - exactly!

12. It is obvious to me that someone knows something. It is time for some major questioning. If LE is sitting back and waiting for someone to come foward or screw up I have to say that that seems like an incredibly inappropriate tactic considering there is an 8 year old girl out there somewhere!! -- I completely agree with you!

I'm exhausted and discouraged - I really wonder if an answer will be found - but I do so hope it will and Tori will be found alive and well!

Thanks for your comments BeetlebrowII - hang in there!:smile:

Hello H4T, thank you for your thoughtful response.

I can tell that you and others are starting to feel the same type of rising panic that I am. I was sure when I was listening to Tara that Tori was alive. Now as the days go by I am not so sure. I wish that someone in either family would demand to know what OPP is doing and why OPP has not commented on the lack correct information (if they are not keeping the families in the loop which I doubt). Families have the right and Canadians have the right because they pay LE's salary.

Lets make a pact here and now that we will not let this case fade into oblivion. :thumbup:

I think you are right about LE being in CYA mode. Not counting cases that become federal because of certain laws, most local police depts have a cow if the feds come in and try to take over. The Oxford police dept. seemed relieved IMO. So far, I have no idea what OPP are doing. Does anyone else find that odd???. They took over the case and now.......Silence. I pray this is a positive sign.

I have read and commented about many child abductions, but this is the first case where as time goes on.......I actually feel like we are going BACKWARDS as far as information about the abduction.

[BeetlebrowII]

And one more thing - what about phone (land line/cell) records of all potential known suspects? And the computers too should have been confiscated, in my opinion. I would think in this day and age the computer online activity would be a priority on the list of things to check out. Who knows - maybe these things are/were being done.

What about photographers in the area - they often do model searches and the day before she went missing the school photos were taken. I'm not pointing fingers - just hoping all possibilities are being considered by the police and everyone who is trying to help. The police are apparently following up on over 1500 tips. I would like to know how many of those tips have been useful and how many have been ruled out to date.

Tori must be found - let's hope the police investigation proves successful - and soon - for her sake and for all those who love her!:)

ITA.......Another great question for reporters to ask Tara.

H4T, maybe we should make a list of questions that we want the news/reporters to ask Tori (or any family member) and e-mail the list to local news outlets. All posters here could help with questions (some are so obvious). Let me know what you think.

[BeetlebrowII]

Here is the surveillance tape I watched on Youtube. The times I refer to are based on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6FyN3Ct1Kg&feature=related

At 0.18 (and I paused it here) you see the woman and girl enter the frame. Against the black window of the building across the road, you can see that her left arm is bent, and what appears to be her hand in the pocket of her jacket.Her elbow is extended back at an angle. The jacket, appears to be open, as a dark vertical line is going down. It also looks like there is a hood, or some kind of large collar.

From 0.18 to 0.24, you can see her right arm moving back and forth, but her left arm remains the same - bent and with the corresponding shadow.

From 0.24 to 1.11, you can still see her right arm moving back and forth, and her left arm in the same position.

At the 1.11 point, when she is preparing to cross the street, you can suddenly see the dark diagonal line on the back of her jacket against the black window. However, it doesn't correspond with anything coming up on the lefthand side at the front of her jacket, according to the frames starting at 0.18.

I believe that the dark diagonal line as seen on the back of the jacket might be a crease in the back of her jacket created by the hood or type of collar and the position of her bent arm pressing against that side of the jacket, and the subsequent shadow effects made by the sun.

I tried this with a jacket I have which is also loose-fitting and which has a hood. When I put left the jacket unzipped, bent my elbow and extended it back a bit and put my hand in the pocket - it created the exact same effect - a dark diagonal line starting at the upper righthand corner, going down towards the pocket area. Either that, or it is in fact a part of the jacket design, with a diagonal stripe at the back. I looked carefully over and over, and I didn't get the impression that she was carrying anything.

Good analysis nova :smile:

I was thinking that if she was actually carrying something diagonally, that is a strange (not seen often) way to carry it. I have noticed woman on motorcycles who do this with their purse. I wonder if there are motorcycle groups in Woodstock. I know motorcycle groups were involved in some of the fundraising. Is Tara familiar with one or more of these groups. May be a connection. Especially because of the "THEY" references Tara keeps making.

[streeter]

Hey Streeter - thanks very much for the explanation!:thumbup:- I felt like I must be the biggest idiot not to clue in on what you meant!

Well, the swine flu is very scary when I think of how the SARS outbreak effected our city - Toronto - but I think they learned a lot about how poorly that outbreak was handled, and they are trying to make sure the correct information is given in a timely and serious manner should this swine flu turn out to be similar - which I sure hope it does not!

Yes, ITA Tori will become far less 'newsworthy' in light of the swine flu news and other pertinent news of the day. ITA with you again - the prospects for keeping Tori's abduction front and centre in the media is looking less likely and it is indeed scary and sad if that is true. I don't know, but I guess at this point, anyone with information that could actually be helpful would have presumably contacted the police already and it must be just a matter of time before the case is solved. How can the public interest in Tori's case make a difference at this late stage? I don't normally follow abduction cases, so I would be interested in your thoughts.

One more thing - I find it odd that Billy Bob Thorton could capture anyone's interest for more than a few seconds? Who cares!

Thanks Streeter!:smile:

I think that public interest is huge in this case because it puts pressure on LE. This case is already being scrutinized for its early mistakes and further scrutiny can only motivate the new detectives to right some wrongs. When/if Tori is found, especially if the outcome is bad, the questions that have arisen should, IMO, lead to an inquest into how the case was handled in the early hours of her disappearance.

I think the OPP is aware that this is inevitable, but I think public scrutiny has to remain strong.

I also think that as long as Tori is lost, we can't make it seem like she no longer matters, or that the more time that lies between now and the last time we saw her, the less important she is. I know that isn't the case when stories like this fade to the back page, but it feels that way sometimes.

There is still the possibility that this is a stranger abduction (possible though not probable, in my mind). Precautions should be taken until the person is apprehended.

I'm very sensitive about how quickly real human beings fade away in the news, but I accept that it has to happen. I just think it's way too early for this to happen to Tori.

[BeetlebrowII]

I personally think that the police have asked and have the info on all the questions that the above posters are asking. I think that they are not releasing this info to the public as they do in the US. The Cdn. police always seem to be more closed mouth about crimes and the info is only released once a trial is over. Whoever that person was in the video seems to be in a hurry and the little one is having trouble keeping up with her.

I respectfully disagree. Getting info out to the public is a very important key to the investigation of a missing child. IMO most cases that I have seen in the U.S. involve information given out to the public in order encourage people who may have seen something important to come foward. At the same time, the case and the victim's description are kept in the news. Maintaining a repore with the press and the public will not hurt any case they are building behind the scenes.

[girlfriday]

Respectfully snipped.....

What I’d also like to know is how did someone know to go check the surveillance tape? I’d like to know how that came about.



The two schools are part of the same school board - so they have the same high level administration. I'm assuming the question would have come up about the public school and they would have said check the secondary schools footage...

I wonder how many days of footage they keep or whether it just records over itself every day. I still have this funny feeling that the survelance we are being shown is a compilation. Just a thought that has run through my head when trying to reconcile how that strap seems to suddenly appear. But who knows - could be my own keystone cop :rolleyes: abilities on overtime :unsure:

[Hope4Tori]

ITA.......Another great question for reporters to ask Tara.

H4T, maybe we should make a list of questions that we want the news/reporters to ask Tori (or any family member) and e-mail the list to local news outlets. All posters here could help with questions (some are so obvious). Let me know what you think.

Hey BeetlbrowII: I think that's a really creative idea about contacting a reporter with the list of questions compiled by this group - all the ones that are begging to be answered!:) I don't think LE would entertain such a request. I wonder if someone in the press - it would have to be a highly credible person IMO - would be open to a little direction from a group of concerned citizens? I don't know, but it may be worth a try!

I would be interested in what the others in this group think. And I think we have to really consider doing such a thing because I don't want to interfere with a police investigation. There may be reasons we don't understand in this moment, as others have commented, as to why these hard questions have not yet been asked.

I do think that unless the parents are named as suspects, they DO have a right to expect that the police update them with details about the investigation because it is their daughter and they must have a right to know everything that's going on. Believe me, if it were my child in this dreadful circumstance, I would not settle for anything less. They would have to arrest me for harrassment because I could not handle not knowing what was going on and exactly what the police were doing to get to the truth of what happened.

With everything I've observed so far, I have no reason to be that trusting that the police will inform the public about anything that is going on unless and until Tori is found.

Let's keep our hopes up for Tori even against all odds!:sad:

Thanks so much for your ideas Beetlebrow!:)

[Hope4Tori]

I think that public interest is huge in this case because it puts pressure on LE. This case is already being scrutinized for its early mistakes and further scrutiny can only motivate the new detectives to right some wrongs. When/if Tori is found, especially if the outcome is bad, the questions that have arisen should, IMO, lead to an inquest into how the case was handled in the early hours of her disappearance.

I think the OPP is aware that this is inevitable, but I think public scrutiny has to remain strong.

I also think that as long as Tori is lost, we can't make it seem like she no longer matters, or that the more time that lies between now and the last time we saw her, the less important she is. I know that isn't the case when stories like this fade to the back page, but it feels that way sometimes.

There is still the possibility that this is a stranger abduction (possible though not probable, in my mind). Precautions should be taken until the person is apprehended.

I'm very sensitive about how quickly real human beings fade away in the news, but I accept that it has to happen. I just think it's way too early for this to happen to Tori.

Hey Streeter - thank you for your reply - everything you say makes so much sense!

I do think the O.P.P. are not under much pressure from the public to date - it seems everyone's focus is more on the families potential involvement in Tori's disappearance - especially her mom -and most of what I read and observe from the public reaction especially in the past week, doesn't even mention any criticism directed to the police about the lack of information re updates on the status/progress of the investigation.

The LE may be doing such a fabulous job behind the scenes, and may not be deserving of any criticism, but how can anyone know? The parents instead have to bear the weight of all the public speculation, and until either of them or someone is formally named by LE as a suspect, they are, in my opinion, victims along with Tori. The police should have an experienced spokesperson updating the public much more often.

Tori better be found alive and well, as we all hope, or the public outrage about how the police handled this case will be immense, and rightly so, no matter who is ultimately held responsible. Maybe the police will prove themselves to be Tori's heroes any moment now - and no one would welcome that news more than her loved ones, and everyone else who has been effected by her sad circumstance!

If I were a parent living in Woodstock, I certainly would be hyper-vilgilent about my child/children until Tori is found and someone is arrested.

Thanks again for your post, Streeter, have a great night~:smile:

[Hope4Tori]

snipped

I was just watching Rebecca Stafford and I agree that she seems to be the sharpest tool in the shed....so to speak. Its ironic because in the interview she is standing next to a telephone pole with Tori's picture on it. I never noticed before how much she looks like Tori. Much more than Tori's mom.

Hey BeetlebrowII - I thought Kinetic mentioned the resemblance of Tori to her Dad - see my last post - then I noticed it was you and I that shared the eagle eye!:) But this eagle's eyes are blurry from being on the computer for far too long a time!

Have a great night - see ya tomorrow!:)

[girlfriday]

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/#clip164681

Well, that clip just anwered a couple of my questions...well, sort of.

Tara said that Tori was perhaps going to have friends back after school to watch a movie but it wasn't firmed up...that it was only that morning that she had told Tori it would be OK.

Tara also said sometimes Tori's Gramma picked her kids up from school - but she didn't mention if she herself ever did.

The questions about the fund raising is interesting. The family needs to be accountable and prepared to answer those kinds of questions.

Tara mentioned that the bank didn't want to open one of the accounts... that is odd - why would a bank refuse to set up a legitimate trust account (with a trustee to handle the affairs).

[n/t]

Very quiet today. Anything being said locally? I've been away for most of the day and can't find any updates on the case online.

[Nen]

I'm sure this has been asked before but I just watched the enhanced video someone made of the abduction and my question is, have they said what kind of backpack Tori used? Because to me it kind of looks like the woman has the school bag? slung over her shoulder, but around her neck. I hope this makes sense. A lot of kids use those backpacks that look more like purses or something you'd put a laptop in. Basically what I'm saying is that goes with the theory that its someone she knows because adults tend to carry their kids bags after school for them. Especially if it's heavy

And it might blend in in the front because the person is wearing dark clothing.

[n/t]

Another vigil was held today.

Victoria's mother told CTV on Sunday that she wants everybody to do what they can to get the word out about her daughter.

"Keep sending emails to wherever, send balloons to wherever, do whatever you have to do to keep it going," she said.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090426/stafford_case_090426/20090426?hub=Canada

[n/t]

I'm sure this has been asked before but I just watched the enhanced video someone made of the abduction and my question is, have they said what kind of backpack Tori used? Because to me it kind of looks like the woman has the school bag? slung over her shoulder, but around her neck. I hope this makes sense. A lot of kids use those backpacks that look more like purses or something you'd put a laptop in. Basically what I'm saying is that goes with the theory that its someone she knows because adults tend to carry their kids bags after school for them. Especially if it's heavy

And it might blend in in the front because the person is wearing dark clothing.

Nope..no mention of Tori's school bag that I could remember. We brought that up earlier today. The bag the kidnapper is carrying could be Tori's. I hope LE is looking into it.

I used to carry my kids bags when they had a lot of books or if they had soccer practice and I wanted them to walk faster without the heavy weight of a school bag.

I'm more than ever convinced this is Tara in the video. Where is Tori?:sad:

[nova1998]

Hi N/T,
Like you, my gut feeling tells me this is the mother in the video.

I have a theory of what may have happened, which I'll post shortly.

[Nen]

For sure it's tara or someone close to Tori. I can imagine the panic when they realized they were caught on tape. And the relief when they realized you couldn't tell who it was. Taking Tara's white coat does nothing because honestly what could they do with it? They couldn't say 100% what type or style it was from a tape so I don't see why they would take it..unless they think something bad happened and Tori's dna was on it.

[girlfriday]

Another vigil was held today.

Victoria's mother told CTV on Sunday that she wants everybody to do what they can to get the word out about her daughter.

"Keep sending emails to wherever, send balloons to wherever, do whatever you have to do to keep it going," she said.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090426/stafford_case_090426/20090426?hub=Canada

I think it is great that they keep her story out there and I'm trying not to pee on their parade...but this balloon thing has to be re-thought. It is such a bad idea - enviromentally speaking. This is the 2nd time they launched some 1000 balloons into the air...where do they suppose those end up?

[ginky41]

"A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother."
Unknown Source
oi
:lol:


That's funny Kin :) I have a psych degree and I've never heard that!

BTW, you don't have to post links only on the links thread. You are still welcome to post them here. The links thread is a place for people to post links for those who don't want to read thru all the discussion.

Where's Tori?

[girlfriday]

To dispell the apparently prominent belief that she might be the person in the survelance video, perhaps Tara should think about volunteering to put on her own white coat and then walking the viewer through a 12 second clip of herself walking in that same sort of scenario.

I think Tara needs to realize that if people come to believe she is involved, they will also more then likely come to believe her daughter is not alive (based on what we have seen in past cases involving moms). And sadly, right or wrong, that could lead to the public losing hope ... and interest ... and so goes the media.

If I was her - I'd at least make the offer to clear myself to all the eyes I've brought on myself in an effort to keep everyone focused on keeping the faith to keep on talking about Tori and searching for her.

[nova1998]

Here is a theory of what may have happened. It is based on the police's search of her old apartment and seizure of items; the police's concentration on possible locations where a body may be placed (landfills, ponds); and the mother's own responses to different questions during her press conferences (including emotional distancing, distractions being used, some verbal slip ups, various contradictions, and weak reasoning being employed at different points - these all gave me the impression that she was being deceptive).

1. The video of the woman and girl is the mother and daughter. They are walking briskly, and would be normal if they had a schedule of sorts, including getting back to their home for friends to come over or to get ready for the father's scheduled visit.

2. The two individuals cross the street to other side. They continue up Fyfe Avenue, heading up to their previous apartment building on, I believe, 3 Fyfe Avenue, which they moved out of 6 days ago. Perhaps they had to pick up some things and the daughter was to help the mother.

3. Something happens in the apartment itself. The mother may have been under considerable stress - 2 recent deaths in the family - her brother and step-father; unemployment; her boyfriend soon heading to court; mounting financial concerns and obligations. She may have snapped suddenly here in the apartment with the daughter- intentionally or unintentionally.
A missing persons report is made just after 6 and is employed to mask what happened.

[ginky41]

Has it ever been determined who the other woman is that's always in photos/vidoes with Tara? I don't have a link off hand but her face has even been put next to the composite sketch.... Kin ~ I know you know who I'm talking about. Just wondering if anyone has figured out who that is? TIA.

[ginky41]

I haven't come across anything.
Don't think that woman will be seen by Tara's side much now.

Weird.... She sure resembled that composite, IMO.

[nova1998]

Hi Kinetic -

This is for you. The report is from a Canadian Radio Station.

http://www.cfrb.com/shows/912002

[nova1998]

Here is another link, about a different security camera catching them:

http://www.ecanadanow.com/news/canada/police-release-sketch-of-victoria-stafford-abductor-20090422.html

I have to double-check, however, the address of the former co-op residence. I thought is was the one I posted, but now I can't find it anywhere.

[VC2]

Nope..no mention of Tori's school bag that I could remember. We brought that up earlier today. The bag the kidnapper is carrying could be Tori's. I hope LE is looking into it.

I used to carry my kids bags when they had a lot of books or if they had soccer practice and I wanted them to walk faster without the heavy weight of a school bag.

I'm more than ever convinced this is Tara in the video. Where is Tori?:sad:

I don't think it is. The digital forensics they have now are phenomenol. They could downsize Tara in both profile, direct and from the back and match skull, bones, ears. The police know, but imo if it was Tara she would be under arrest.

[nova1998]

Hi Kinetic,

Here is a link re: the recent move from Fyfe Avenue to Frances Street:

http://cambridgereporter.com/news/article/170353

However, there is no street number stated in the article. I'm still looking to see where I saw that.

More tommorrow when I am not so tired

[streeter]

Hi Kinetic -

This is for you. The report is from a Canadian Radio Station.

http://www.cfrb.com/shows/912002

Thanks for this link, nova.

Relevant quote with new info that hasn't been discussed here yet, namely, the forensic search of Tara's previous address:

McDonald, Goris, Tori and Daryn moved two weeks ago Friday just five days before Tori vanished from a co-op housing complex on one side of the children's school to a tiny house on the other side.

Kim Clarke, board president of the co-op, said she went into the now vacant unit a few days ago to get it ready for the next tenant when police arrived shortly after. They asked her to leave, a forensic team came, and they removed some evidence, she said.

[streeter]

I would be curious to see a map showing all points of interest. I'm a visual learner. :read:

Let's say it's Tara in the video walking Tori home. With the layout in my head, it makes no sense for them to have to cross Fyfe Ave on their way home. They are already on the side of the street that they need to be on when they hit Frances Street. So why cross? Is the old apartment on the other side of the street?

This would make more sense to me if I could understand how things are laid out.

I am encouraged that the police had the presence of mind to search the old apartment in the days following Tori's disappearance. I wonder what led them to do so. Was it something Tara said? Since Tori went missing after they moved, what would be the point of searching that apartment? And if they searched that apartment, why not search the current home? They removed evidence, but the apartment was vacant. What would they have found in a vacant apartment? Hmm...

Also, I wonder if they've watched the security video from 3:30 to 6:00 to see if they could corraborate any searching that Tara claimed to do near the school that day when Tori was missing. If Tara traced Tori's tracks from home to school, shouldn't she be seen on the video sometime in that time period? If she claimed to have been searching, and perhaps told cops that she went to the school on foot not knowing about the surveillance camera, and then didn't appear on film, wouldn't that be a smoking gun for the cops, at least enough to justify a search warrant for the home?

[nova1998]

I believe I was wrong with respect to the former street address. Kim Clarke, who is quoted in the article about the police search of the previous residence, might be the president of Trilliium Place Co-op which is located at the southern end of Fyfe Avenue. Their previous address is often referred to as the "Fyfe Avenue Co-op". However, it's actual address is stated as 715 Parkinson Road. If the other articles are correct, then this is where the uncle lives as well. I've not been able to find any housing co-ops on Fyfe.

[nova1998]

Just one more link for tonight:
In this one, a former neighbour states that the girl was supposed to go to the uncle's townhouse located in the Trillium co-op after school, and said it was out of character for the girl not to show up.

http://www.norwichgazette.ca/PrintArticle.aspx?e=1518582

[streeter]

I've been reading up on the Shannon Matthews (UK) case and WOW there are so many parallels! Even the key players (mom, BF, uncle, etc.) are the same in relationship, social class, etc. It's really fascinating.

Someone mentioned questions for media to ask Tara. Here's mine:

"Tara, it's been three weeks with little to no new information. Have you considered moving the money from the bank accounts to the reward fund, in hopes that a larger reward might compel the people who know something to come forward with their information?"

:D

[moonlite]

I believe I was wrong with respect to the former street address. Kim Clarke, who is quoted in the article about the police search of the previous residence, might be the president of Trilliium Place Co-op which is located at the southern end of Fyfe Avenue. Their previous address is often referred to as the "Fyfe Avenue Co-op". However, it's actual address is stated as 715 Parkinson Road. If the other articles are correct, then this is where the uncle lives as well. I've not been able to find any housing co-ops on Fyfe.

Greetings'
Nova1998

What uncle are you referring too? I'm a bit confused here as I thought, Tara was an only child? Does Tori's, father have a brother?

Moonlite

[n/t]

I don't think it is. The digital forensics they have now are phenomenol. They could downsize Tara in both profile, direct and from the back and match skull, bones, ears. The police know, but imo if it was Tara she would be under arrest.

They can't arrest her without evidence. One eye witness who helped with the sketch is not enough for an arrest.

They have to have more and they will.

[n/t]

Wow..thanks for the links and updates. I had no idea LE checked their former place of residence.

Where could Tori be?:sad:

[n/t]

Greetings'
Nova1998

What uncle are you referring too? I'm a bit confused here as I thought, Tara was an only child? Does Tori's, father have a brother?

Moonlite

I believe Tara mentioned she has step siblings. Maybe one of them is the uncle she was supposed to go to after school.

I'm wondering if Tori perhaps didn't want to go to the uncle's house and that's why mom went to get her assuming that is Tara in the video.