Friday, April 24

[Themis]

Stockton Record newspaper article Friday, April 24 at 6:00 a.m.

A Stockton attorney, John Schick, who is also an instructor at the Humphreys College Laurence Drivon School of Law, has expressed his opinion that it is unlikely that Melissa Huckaby will enter a plea at today's hearing. [JMO * Themis]

Full article below at the link:

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090424/A_NEWS/904240326/-1/A_SPECIAL0263

[MoonFlwr]

Hi Themis

Thanks for the new thread. :)

Interesting article.

I wonder when 'we' will hear news from the media. I think the hearing is at 1:30 (on the West Coast), so I wonder if there will be news reported after that.

[daisywva]

Searching The The Again Yesterday

They searched the church again yesterday for more evidence

http://www.news10.net/news/story.aspx?storyid=58295&catid=2

[dinojen]

SAN FRANCISCO -- Though Melissa Huckaby's attorneys plan to withdraw their motion to exhume Sandra Cantu's body, the prosecution and defense remain on a collision course over the forensic evidence from her autopsy.

The defense is attacking the credibility of the pathologist whose findings will be used to support charges that Melissa Huckaby raped the 8-year-old - an allegation that could bring the death penalty if the one-time Sunday school aide is convicted. Huckaby is scheduled to make her second court appearance Friday.

At the center of the conflict is San Joaquin County's chief medical examiner, Dr. Bennet Omalu, who has been in the spotlight before.

The 40-year-old neuropathologist gained national media attention for his research on the damaged brains of dead NFL players.

He is also a government witness in a federal corruption case against his former boss, celebrity pathologist Dr. Cyril Wecht, who has earned millions of dollars investigating high-profile deaths, including those of Elvis Presley and JonBenet Ramsey.

In a phone interview with The Associated Press before a judge issued a gag order in the Huckaby case, Public Defender Peter Fox questioned Omalu's objectivity.

http://www.kcra.com/news/19265920/detail.html

:unsure:


Sure wish today's hearing was going to be televised... have a feeling that's going to be the case during this whole thing...:angry:

[dinojen]

By Scott Smith
Record Staff Writer
April 24, 2009 6:00 AM

STOCKTON - Intense interest in Melissa Huckaby's case has caused court officials to take extraordinary measures for the 28-year-old Tracy woman's hearing today on charges she murdered, kidnapped and raped 8-year-old Sandra Cantu.

San Joaquin County Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus has banned media cameras from the hearing, and members of the public who want a seat inside the courtroom will have to win one through a drawing.

Huckaby is scheduled for her second appearance for arraignment on the charge of murder with three special circumstances of kidnapping, rape with an instrument and lewd and lascivious acts on a child younger than 14.

Huckaby has yet to enter a plea, and that isn't likely to happen today, said Stockton attorney John Schick, who is an instructor at Humphreys College Laurence Drivon School of Law. Schick is not part of the case but agreed to comment on the court process.

San Joaquin County Public Defender Sam Behar and his investigator likely know little about the prosecution's case at this point, Schick said.

"They probably have learned more about this case from what they have read in the media or seen on TV," Schick said. "That lack of information makes it really difficult for it to move forward."

At this stage, he said Huckaby's attorney will likely ask prosecutors for all the evidence that the Tracy Police Department and FBI have collected, such as the interview investigators had with Huckaby the night of her arrest.

Thomas Testa, a San Joaquin County deputy district attorney, is considering whether he will take Huckaby's case to a grand jury - which considers indictments behind closed doors - or put it through a preliminary hearing - which is public.

"A grand jury would indict this thing in a minute," Schick said.

Huckaby's mental health issues - an inevitable part of the case - will likely come up later in the case, Schick said.



That's what they did in the Tracy Teen Torture case.. took it to the grand jury.. thus going straight to trial.... no prelim. hearing..

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090424/A_NEWS/904240326

[Themis]

Hi Themis

Thanks for the new thread. :)

Interesting article.

I wonder when 'we' will hear news from the media. I think the hearing is at 1:30 (on the West Coast), so I wonder if there will be news reported after that.
You're welcome, MoonFlwr. You may be correct about the time of the hearing; perhaps it has been changed from what I read earlier.

**My last info is based on yesterday's article, 4-23, which said the hearing is scheduled for 12:45 P.M. PDT (Pacific Daylight Time).**

That is too late for any 'local' TV channels that have a 12 Noon News show. The Judge has said absolutely no cameras in the courtroom.
It is possible that HLN (HeadLine News) will have made arrangements with a reporter in the courtroom to give a report immediately after the hearing ends. Of course, only those people who have cable or dish reception will be able to see that. Maybe CNN will break into their normal schedule but I would not bet on that.

Actually, I would suggest checking in at the link below. It is for the Stockton Record newspaper. They seem to have the best coverage online; they have set up an entire section on their website devoted to Sandra Cantu. Scott Smith is the newspaper's main person assigned to cover court related news. So, for a text article, check out:

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=A_SPECIAL0263

Note: At the above, text articles are arranged on the left. Video coverage is on the right side.

[JMO * Themis]

[aproudmom]

Morning everyone..still could not sleep dino were is my latte..lol

I started searching the net once again and have always wondered who
ran the dairy farm or owned it and I finally found it on this site..and another one which I put in the links..I was wondering did we ever hear about the ribbon I know we talked about it but it was never confirmed it is reported here there was a red ribbon on it if true how stupid is this sick person she must have never thought she would get caught or perhaps she did want to get caught...well going to try one more time to go take a nappy..

Ann Silva, who owns the Bacchetti and Silva Dairy Farm where the container was found, said she doesn’t know anything about the investigation being conducted on her property.

Police won’t let her on her farm on the banks of a slough called Sugar Cut, which drains into Old River.

San Joaquin County Sheriff, Tracy police, FBI, Coroner and media at scene of found container. ( Possibly black Garment bag or suitcase, with a red ribbon around it.)

http://calfire.blogspot.com/2009/04/update-missing-sandra-cantu-sugar-cut.html

[dinojen]

Geesh woman ya think this is going to be a daily thing me getting you latte's...:tonguewag: Heading that way in about 5 will pick it up and tell them extra hot... so it stays warm.

Check KCRA this morning and nothing new about the WA church talks.. wonder what that was all about.

All the local channels have been talking about the hearing today and the lottery for tickets to get in. Remember the lottery for the Peterson trial. The judge might also be having this closed trying to keep some control as to hopefully not have a change of venue... but heck this story is national so I don't see how they could move it anywhere.. everyone is talking about it or reporting on it.

Still reporting the hearing starts at 12:45 today.. have a feeling it won't be that long.. guess we will have to just wait for reports outside after ..:angry:

Heading out.. put your hand out the window as I drive by to grab your latte dear...:wink:

[aproudmom]

Searching The The Again Yesterday

They searched the church again yesterday for more evidence

http://www.news10.net/news/story.aspx?storyid=58295&catid=2

yeah they have to have a reason all I saw was blinds or a screen from what I saw..which makes me wonder why they had not took them when they had the other warrants..did they get more info perhaps..and then the search of another church that the family may be connected to..something is alittle odd IMO..and they had no gloves on so they were not taking them for DNA or fingerprints...:confused:

Have a wonderful day everyone..
:seeya:

[kitty1182]

Good morning.....Just wondering, MH's grandma said she was home that day...Where was grandpa? :confused:

[dinojen]

Starbucks delivered...:thumbsup:

:sad: Kind of creepy if a red ribbon really was tied around the suitcase.. I'm hoping it was like a bow.. maybe they meant a red ribbon on the handle like people do to recognize their suitcases on turntables at the airport.. just a thought.. I can't imagine anyone wrapping a red ribbon like a package.. but then again we have heard worst things I guess..

Wonder how much of this is going to be kept under wrap till trial.. that's going to drive us insane you realize if nothing is released till the trial:w00t:

[AmndaRcknwth]

Geesh woman ya think this is going to be a daily thing me getting you latte's...:tonguewag: Heading that way in about 5 will pick it up and tell them extra hot... so it stays warm.

Check KCRA this morning and nothing new about the WA church talks.. wonder what that was all about.

All the local channels have been talking about the hearing today and the lottery for tickets to get in. Remember the lottery for the Peterson trial. The judge might also be having this closed trying to keep some control as to hopefully not have a change of venue... but heck this story is national so I don't see how they could move it anywhere.. everyone is talking about it or reporting on it.

Still reporting the hearing starts at 12:45 today.. have a feeling it won't be that long.. guess we will have to just wait for reports outside after ..:angry:

Heading out.. put your hand out the window as I drive by to grab your latte dear...:wink:


The only thing I could find about the pastor they traveled to see had reference to Cottonwood, ID... but no church refernce (I'm assuming Baptist?)

About the search of CRBChurch yesterday... it looks like they removed boards/wood/lumber. I'm disturbed about why.
I saved a few pics from the video.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Sandra%20Cantu/

[dinojen]

The only thing I could find about the pastor they traveled to see had reference to Cottonwood, ID... but no church refernce (I'm assuming Baptist?)

About the search of CRBChurch yesterday... it looks like they removed boards/wood/lumber. I'm disturbed about why.
I saved a few pics from the video.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Sandra%20Cantu/

Weird unless there is possible DNA on them.. or something.. hate not knowing what is going on... bet it has to be hard if your a investigator not to talk to someone about it... :sad: I mean if you were married to one of the investigators.. I know I would be asking a zillion questions.. he would probably have to move out till it was over with all my questions.:tonguewag:

[meadowlark]

things I really wonder about.

the red ribbon
Was there really a red ribbon
if not, how did that ever come about.
If so, I can see why they changed it and said there was not.

the note
how did she misspell suitcase.
What is the other street name on the note.
Why won't they show it?

Old River
the cadaver dogs hit here, yet they found "nothing"
It is on Old River
what made them go there right off

11th
they were also searching 11th street area
why?
were they alerted to the area of Bird & Chrisman?

Tom Paine Slough
Is there any reason "Melissa" would choose to take Sandra's body to the Tom Paine Slough area.
She said she had been out to the Bacchetti/Silva Dairy Before
Who with, and where at out there? was she ever out at the collection pond? Why?
Or was that just a convenient place located in the Tom Paine Slough Area.



I would like to see them dredge that whole Tom Paine Slough Area.
And dig up that whole area on Old River.

I am looking for an old red cabin with a shallow creek running by, have never been able to locate this place.

also looking for an older green/blue stationwagon

and did they find a ton of old newspapers?

just a few thoughts of mine.

if clifford lane lawless moves, it will be very interesting to see "where".

[AmndaRcknwth]

meadowlark, do you think this is moving in the direction of Lane Lawless being involved in some way?

I do. Otherwise there wouldn't be any reason to go asking "people" about "other people" or so says Pastor Bill Creutzberg.

From the article:
"They were trying to put the pieces of their puzzle together. They were asking about certain people who might be able to lead them to other people. But I do not know exactly what they were looking for," Pastor Bill Creutzberg said by phone.

Sources close to the Cantu investigation told KCRA 3 that most of the FBI's questions centered on Pastor Lane Lawless.
http://www.kcra.com/news/19266204/detail.html

[juliekan]

The only thing I could find about the pastor they traveled to see had reference to Cottonwood, ID... but no church refernce (I'm assuming Baptist?)

About the search of CRBChurch yesterday... it looks like they removed boards/wood/lumber. I'm disturbed about why.
I saved a few pics from the video.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Sandra%20Cantu/

meadowlark posted some closer photos last night. guesses were that they looked like blinds or something rolled up.

[meadowlark]

The only thing I could find about the pastor they traveled to see had reference to Cottonwood, ID... but no church refernce (I'm assuming Baptist?)

About the search of CRBChurch yesterday... it looks like they removed boards/wood/lumber. I'm disturbed about why.
I saved a few pics from the video.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Sandra%20Cantu/

I believe the church is
First Church Of God
Clarkston, WA
sitting on the Wa, Idaho border.
the person they talked to, referenced in the news is the pastor of that church

I found some lawless families living in the clarkston area. One is 60 years old and will try to figure out if it is relative of CLL.

I will be gone til late afternoon but will try to figure this out when I get home.

I am also wondering if they are looking for the person who was "supposedly" abused by CLL. Whatever they are doing, the news said that they were looking for people to lead them to other people, and most of the questions were about CLL. This really does not seem to be about Melissa.

I don't know where their interest lies in all of this, or the time period, but that clarkston/lewiston area was a wild wild wild place in years back, and basically still is when you get off up in the canyons.

[RockStarGirl]

meadowlark posted some closer photos last night. guesses were that they looked like blinds or something rolled up.

My guess is blinds and video screens. Probably found on some type of video evidence? Not really my guess. Saw it on a very credible website. This case is going to get really bad, JMO. :sad:

[AmndaRcknwth]

Thanks juliekan, I should have read last nights posts before jumping in, looks like a lot of really interesting and disturbing stuff in last nights discussion..

[meadowlark]

meadowlark, do you think this is moving in the direction of Lane Lawless being involved in some way?

I do. Otherwise there wouldn't be any reason to go asking "people" about "other people" or so says Pastor Bill Creutzberg.

From the article:
"They were trying to put the pieces of their puzzle together. They were asking about certain people who might be able to lead them to other people. But I do not know exactly what they were looking for," Pastor Bill Creutzberg said by phone.

Sources close to the Cantu investigation told KCRA 3 that most of the FBI's questions centered on Pastor Lane Lawless.
http://www.kcra.com/news/19266204/detail.html


my personal opinion, and always has been from day one, is there is a "group" involved in this. I am reluctant to say a lot about this until a few more things surface that will help to back up what I am saying. In my own mind there was enough in the very beginning to convince me this is a "group" thing; a group I have been following for years. The more that comes out, the more I am convinced.

I am always one to say I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I have seen to much pop up already that I expected to pop up, and it just keeps doing so.

Having a theory of a "group" responsible for things like this is a very unpopular theory, so I tend to not say much. But that is my belief 100% and always has been. It is what brought me to this case in the first place.

I believe the feds know about this "group" but they either don't REALLY know the extent of it, or they just can't figure it out because it is so bizarre and they can't get anyone to understand how this could be, so they just hush these cases up and try to find a "person" to put it all of on, while they continue to investigate "the group".

I believe its very possible CLL is a long time part of the group. Its wrong for me to just accuse the guy, or anyone, but its my personal opinion there has long been a group in that area, and he could very well be one of them. Do I know this or could prove it? not yet, but I am personally convinced Melissa has "some" kind of connection to these people, and it could very well be through her family.

[dinojen]

CLARKSTON, Wash. -- An investigation into the slaying of Tracy resident Sandra Cantu has taken FBI investigators to a small church in eastern Washington.

Earlier this month, the FBI went to the First Church of God in Clarkston, Wash., to ask questions about Lane Lawless, who is Huckaby's grandather and currently serves as pastor of Clover Road Baptist Church in Tracy.

Meanwhile, a source close to the investigation said that back in in the mid-'80s there were allegations of child abuse and/or molestation somehow connected to the First Church of God. Lawless was working at the Clarkston church at the time and was questioned regarding the allegations, but nobody was ever charged.

Current First Church of God pastor Bill Creutzberg, who was not at the church at the time the allegations were made, said he was aware of the earlier investigation.

"There are deep emotions about that incident," Creutzberg told KCRA 3. "People here never mention it."

Creutzberg said he was unsure if FBI agents visited First Church of God in relation to the earlier investigation or the Cantu case.

Clarkston residents were unnerved by a possible connection between their town and Cantu's killing.

Cid Johnson called the link a "scary thing," adding she worries that her security may be at risk.

Investigators also returned Thursday to Clover Road Baptist Church to gather more information. The church is located a short distance from the mobile home park were Cantu lived.

http://www.kcra.com/news/19269800/detail.html

[dinojen]

Video link of visit to church in WA

http://www.kcra.com/video/19268247/index.html

[meadowlark]

CLARKSTON, Wash. -- An investigation into the slaying of Tracy resident Sandra Cantu has taken FBI investigators to a small church in eastern Washington.

Earlier this month, the FBI went to the First Church of God in Clarkston, Wash., to ask questions about Lane Lawless, who is Huckaby's grandather and currently serves as pastor of Clover Road Baptist Church in Tracy.

Meanwhile, a source close to the investigation said that back in in the mid-'80s there were allegations of child abuse and/or molestation somehow connected to the First Church of God. Lawless was working at the Clarkston church at the time and was questioned regarding the allegations, but nobody was ever charged.

Current First Church of God pastor Bill Creutzberg, who was not at the church at the time the allegations were made, said he was aware of the earlier investigation.

"There are deep emotions about that incident," Creutzberg told KCRA 3. "People here never mention it."

Creutzberg said he was unsure if FBI agents visited First Church of God in relation to the earlier investigation or the Cantu case.

Clarkston residents were unnerved by a possible connection between their town and Cantu's killing.

Cid Johnson called the link a "scary thing," adding she worries that her security may be at risk.

Investigators also returned Thursday to Clover Road Baptist Church to gather more information. The church is located a short distance from the mobile home park were Cantu lived.

http://www.kcra.com/news/19269800/detail.html

hmmm mid 80's, okay lets see what all is going on up there in mid 80's.
looking for missing and unsolved murders in the area.

Funny his records never mentioned he was a pastor up there, so now here is just one more area he moved around to over the years. so he would be familiar with that idaho area.

now what does the first church of god have to do with Baptist pastors? are they an off-branch? or what?

and who is this CID johnson?

[dinojen]

hmmm mid 80's, okay lets see what all is going on up there in mid 80's.
looking for missing and unsolved murders in the area.

Funny his records never mentioned he was a pastor up there, so now here is just one more area he moved around to over the years. so he would be familiar with that idaho area.

now what does the first church of god have to do with Baptist pastors? are they an off-branch? or what?

and who is this CID johnson?


I was wondering the same thing about the Cid Johnson comment.. wonder who it is.:confused: and why would she be worried about her security?

I googled Cid Johnson and got a classmate page from Yakima, WA !!!!

[meadowlark]

I was wondering the same thing about the Cid Johnson comment.. wonder who it is.:confused: and why would she be worried about her security?

I googled Cid Johnson and got a classmate page from Yakima, WA !!!!


there was a bob johnson on the video also, might be her husband?

yes, why are they worried about their "security".

how is the fbi up there asking questions about CLL, a threat to their "security"?

something up with that?

and the whole church never mentions the incident of "that guy".

perhaps...and just thinking out loud here, CID was a witness to something, or knows something about this whole thing and so they feel threatened because this is coming out? I don't know.

again, I have to go to town and won't be back til late this afternoon, but I will start digging on this stuff and comparing to any old notes I have around.

again, there is something here ringing a bell with me.

[AmndaRcknwth]

Video link of visit to church in WA

http://www.kcra.com/video/19268247/index.html

This vid is way more clear than the one from KRON. From that one, I saw wood. This one shows the objects are clearly not lumber.

[omsk99]

~ snip

"The forensic evidence from the girl's autopsy remains a point of contention. Public defender Peter Fox has attacked the credibility of San Joaquin County's chief medical examiner and complained that the autopsy results were biased in favor of prosecutors.

Investigators have yet to disclose the cause of Sandra's death and a judge has issued a gag order in the case, preventing authorities from making public comments."

http://www.news10.net/news/story.aspx?storyid=58320&catid=2

The above link also has a photo of Sandra that I had not seen before :sad:

[oodi]

I was wondering the same thing about the Cid Johnson comment.. wonder who it is.:confused: and why would she be worried about her security?

I googled Cid Johnson and got a classmate page from Yakima, WA !!!!

Based on the video that aired on KCRA late news last night, Cid Johnson is one of 2 or 3 Clarkston residents that they interviewed, and asked their thoughts on the possible connection between Clarkston, WA and the Sandra Cantu case. So nothing more that the viewpoint of "John and Jane Q Public."

[omsk99]

Starbucks delivered...:thumbsup:

:sad: Kind of creepy if a red ribbon really was tied around the suitcase.. I'm hoping it was like a bow.. maybe they meant a red ribbon on the handle like people do to recognize their suitcases on turntables at the airport.. just a thought.. I can't imagine anyone wrapping a red ribbon like a package.. but then again we have heard worst things I guess..

Wonder how much of this is going to be kept under wrap till trial.. that's going to drive us insane you realize if nothing is released till the trial:w00t:

I think you might be on to something regarding the ribbon. I remember the images and videos of the suitcase just outside the water (laying on the ground), and it wasn't wrapped in anything, I mean like a ribbon. If it was indeed there, I think you are right - it was probably wrapped around the handle or something else small, for identification purposes.

[omsk99]

I was following online as well when this case broke. The initial reports were that it was wrapped in a red ribbon. Then, I think that was removed and the reports were all saying there was no red ribbon.
Maybe it was on the handle but they used the word wrapped from the get go which really was key to me. I think it was wrapped.

I think more will come out about this Lawless "pastor" and he will end up being "that guy" that the whole town seems to know about, enough so that they won't even say his name. And this all goes to SO like MH are made. If she is an abused victim herself, I'd pin my bet on the "good" pastor himself. They've just gone back to the church and removed projector screens fgs.

Maybe they have uncovered a porn ring who knows. I think it will be something more along the lines of a familial molestation type of thing.
MH's undoing seemed to start at adolescence and that is usually the time that some SO start hurting little girls. I wonder, if something was happening in her own home, to cause her to be suicidal and slash her own wrists. I think this does not qualify for an insanity defense. She isn't insane, she's sick. Her whole family may be sick. That town, knows something, and we need to find out who "that guy" is from the WA/ID church.

When did she slash her wrists? The only suicide attempt I know of was swallowing the blades. Were there other suicide attempts reported? If so, she has been "successfully unsuccessful" at them! :cursing:

[omsk99]

http://cbs13.com/local/sandra.cantu.Congress.2.992699.html

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Congressman_Honors_Sandra_Cantu_Bay_Area.html

:rose:

[oodi]

Ok... something I've been pondering...

The church in Clarkston, WA is First Church of God. The church that CLL is at now is Clover Road Baptist Church. It is my understanding (which could be entirely wrong) that these churches are different denominations.

Any theologians that can explain what, if any differences and is there any significance to the switch from one church to the other?

[oodi]

When did she slash her wrists? The only suicide attempt I know of was swallowing the blades. Were there other suicide attempts reported? If so, she has been "successfully unsuccessful" at them! :cursing:


I had read something somewhere (can't remember where) that MH had been a "cutter." I tried looking at the video of her arraignment... but couldn't see any scarring anywhere that was visible.

[dinojen]

Well... going to be an interesting day. DA considering asking the judge to drop the gag order...:thumbsup: but I highly doubt she would do it.

PD pondering asking for a change of venue... don't know how that one will fly either.. everyone knows about this case...

STOCKTON (KRON) -- Legal experts say there's a good chance Melissa Huckaby will once again put off entering a plea to murder, kidnapping, and rape charges in connection with the death of eight-year old Sandra Cantu.

Huckaby will be in court this afternoon for more legal proceedings in the case. Analysts say the San Joaquin County public defender could ask for more evidence from prosecutors instead of entering a plea. The D.A's office reportedly is considering asking Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus to lift a gag order imposed earlier this week.

There's also widespread speculation defense attorneys could ask for a change of venue in the case saying it will be impossible for Huckaby to get a fair trial in San Joaquin county or the Bay Area. They may push to move the case to Southern California.

http://kron.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1178/reftab/36/t/Huckaby-Could-Delay-Plea-at-Today-s-Hearing/Default.aspx

[dinojen]

I had read something somewhere (can't remember where) that MH had been a "cutter." I tried looking at the video of her arraignment... but couldn't see any scarring anywhere that was visible.

Think it was one of her anonymous friends that made the comment about her being a cutter and a previous talk of suicide... that was awhile back when she was first arrested someone came out and talked about her past.. Haven't really seen anything else about a suicide attempt.:confused:

[For Gabriel]

My guess is blinds and video screens. Probably found on some type of video evidence? Not really my guess. Saw it on a very credible website. This case is going to get really bad, JMO. :sad:

If they are still haveing Sunday services as well as possible Weds. Night services, wouldn't some evidence be tampered with. with folks walking around, in & out, etc?

[For Gabriel]

I just heard on the Neal Bortz (sp) show that your stomach acids can actually eat razor blades when ingested! :confused:

I have always said from day one that the Grandfather left me feeling chilled. Something doesn't jive w/ him....and the LE going back to the church. That was why I questioned the cot thing all along.

[meadowlark]

the slashing wrists info came from here

Another friend — who said she knew Huckaby very well during the two years before Huckaby was assaulted and also asked for anonymity — said she knew the preacher’s daughter had deep-seated troubles, but never knew their extent. The friend said she knew Huckaby would slash her wrists at times, and wore long-sleeved shirts in the summer to hide the self-inflicted gashes.

http://tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Huckaby%20told%20friends%20she%20was%20raped%20=&page_label=home&id=2341927-Huckaby+told+friends+she+was+raped&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

just giving info where it came from, not sure what I beleive about it.

[Firefly]

I have almost the completely opposite opinion about this case from most everyone else I've spoken with. I don't think we are looking at a sexual molestation case with murder. I think we're looking at a simple murder.

I believe that if Melissa Huckaby was a serial sexual assaulter, there would be an entire history of her aggressing against other children. The prosecution has called for the public to come forward and report on these and except for one case, he has not gotten it.

The one case he did get was for the 7 year old girl who was also a playmate of Melissa Huckaby's child. It seems pretty clear that Melissa Huckaby drugged this child. And most have pointed to this as evidence that this indicates that MH is a sexual predator. What stands out to me is that, MH had this child in her possession for many hours, and although this child was later taken to a hospital and examined, there must have been no evidence of sexual assault...otherwise the police WOULD have arrested her.

So where are all the other victims? We have one girl that the medical examiner says has evidence of "genital trauma" and we have another girl that was taken by Melissa Huckaby but returned without evidence of sexual assault. So I had questions about that. What is "genital trauma" and how does a medical examiner go about determining this after a body decomposes in water for ten days? From looking at the suitcase photo, taken by helicopter, I was struck by how small the suitcase looked. So I started questioning what damage might have been done to the body if it was folded up, shoved, and otherwise positioned in the suitcase. Add in decomposition, the effect of long term exposure to water on skin...and I began to wonder what was being looked at by the medical examiner. Does someone turn to a pile of bones after ten days or blowup from all the compressed gases and explode? I'm no doctor so I was curious. Or phrased more simply, curious if something else that might have been done to Sandra could account for "genital trauma" or is the ONLY explanation rape?

The only person who has examined Sandra Cantu's body to determine this is the medical examiner. So I looked at the medical examiner's record. If he had turned out to be the worlds expert on forensic examination of rape victims...then he'd know what he's looking at and I'm asking questions for nothing.

Dr. Bennet Omalu graduated from a Nigerian medical school in the early 90's and moved to the United States. He has been a doctor for 14 years and a medical examiner for eight years since 2000. He *is* considered to be the world's expert.......on brain trauma to football players. He's written books on it. His main focus of study has been and apparently continues to be, the brain. He moved to the San Joaquin area in 2007 and is the chief medical examiner. Doing an internet search, I am unable to locate any reference to Dr. Omalu giving forensic testimony in rapes cases. He has a huge number of "hits" for testifying in cases involving brain injury of all types, including damage from "date rape" drugs, but *I* am unable to find references to him being an expert on forensic examination of sexual assault victims. There ARE people who specialize in this and perhaps I just lack the internet skills to find Dr. Omalu's record on this, or perhaps his testimony in these types of cases never makes it to the internet.

Before learning all this, I had already been calling for a second autopsy of Sandra's body. I have a personal opinion that at least one or more other people were involved in Sandra's disappearance. Moving her body if nothing else. I had hoped a second autopsy might be done with an eye toward determining if other evidence of a second person might be located.

And if for no other reason, I wanted a second autopsy just to have a second opinion. If you were told you had cancer, would you want to base your surgery on one doctor's word? I think the prosecutions case would have been made immensely stronger if a second autopsy had been done...if it found evidence of genital trauma. Why was a second autopsy not signed off on by the prosecution? Personally, I think that the prosecution initially thought that having a second autopsy would only weaken their case....because it could cast doubt on the medical examiner's findings...and because the prosecution had put out a call for all the OTHER VICTIMS of Melissa Huckaby to come forward. If several people came forward, as I believe the prosecutor thought would happen, saying, "My child got bruises at church in Huckaby's class", then the medical examiner's findings were going to be irrelevant. You'd have 20 other people reporting on Melissa Huckaby's propensity to commit sexual assault. The medical examiner's report would just be the exclamation point that sexual assault was a given.

Except....no people are coming forward. The one child's case that was brought to light shows that kidnapping may have occured, drugging almost certainly occured,...but that the hospital apparently didn't find any evidence of sexual assault. Now the prosecution has got to rely SOLELY on the word and the findings of the medical examiner to show sexual molestation. From the prosecution's stand point, the LAST THING you want to do is go to court, spend 3 or 4 days presenting your evidence of how Sandra Cantu was sexually assault...only to have another forensic examiner (perhaps one who specializes in forensic rape examinations) to step to the stand and say, "No...this happens to every human cadaver left in water for 5 days...it just looks like rape, but it isn't." Then throw down some photos from boating accidents that proves it. It's the "last thing" you want to have happen...because the doubt generated over this could extend to other areas of your case. Probably not so hugely an extension that a murderess walks free...but maybe embarrassing enough and casting enough doubt on the chain of evidence so that a lesser conviction has to be settled for. (Which I would consider a crime.)

Don't get me wrong. I believe Melissa Huckaby is a murderess. I believe that when she drugged the child back in January and went to three different parks that she was intending to murder the child and probably make it look like an accident. (Which is what she's claiming now about Sandra so I've heard reported.) Why would she do that if she isn't a sexual deviant? Speculating, I think it was jealousy/envy that motivated her to kill. Both of the children who were targeted by Melissa Huckaby were playmates of her child. Melissa Huckaby's child is 5. The other two children were older than her child. When they came over to play, they almost certainly were better at game playing. Older. Better hand eye coordination. Stronger. Prettier maybe. Maybe Melissa didn't like her child being bettered by these other children. Got tired of her kid coming crying to her. And decided it was time to do something. Who knows? I'm just speculating. But I think I've got some evidence from Melissa's past that supports this idea of her having jealousy "issues" more so than a sexual assault history. The media says she may have set a couple of fires in the past. One possible reason for doing that is that you envy what someone else has and you want to destroy it. That same "kink" in Melissa's personality that can justify burning down a building because you dislike, are jealous, or envy what someone else has, could occur and be directed toward playmates if they were demonstrating they were "better" than her own kid.

Personally, I think it's telling that the people targeted by Melissa Huckaby were both playmates, and both older, than her own child.

As I said before, it seems odd that if Melissa Huckaby is sexual predator that she doesn't have more reports against her. Most sexual predators don't wait this long and they usually aren't so discriminating in who they target.

Anyway...

[Themis]

Thanks to everyone for the good links! Very impressive work.

Just looked up Clarkson, Washington; it is a small town with less than 8,000 population (2000 census) and small in area, too -- only 2 square miles. It is adjacent to Lewiston, Idaho so their nickname is 'the twin cities'; named for Lewis and Clark, the explorers.

As for comments about pastor (Clifford) Lane Lawless and his wife, Connie, up above, I am remembering the early days and the videos, etc.

1. Video dated 4-7-09 when reporters question the couple while they are seated in their car, and Connie does 95% of the talking. The pastor has very little to say and most of it is inaudible either because he looks down and lowers his voice or mumbles or the mike malfunctions. Link below from Channel 13 (CBS), Sacramento:

http://cbs13.com/video/?id=51564@kovr.dayport.com

2. Video dated 4-23-09 when reporters question Brian Lawless, father of Melissa Huckaby. He says family members cried and prayed with her. You can see the pastor in the early part of the film (white shirt with green horizontal stripes) but he says nothing. I think he purposely is hanging back and actually moves out of camera range. Brian says he and his mother, Connie, talked to Melissa with a window separating them. I think this is odd because Lane Lawless is obviously the one who is a trained/educated pastor and yet he did not take part. Again, he is physically (and emotionally?) removing himself from his own grand daughter in her most dire time of need for pastoral counseling. Avoiding speaking with reporters, too? Link below from Channel 13 (CBS), Sacramento:

http://www.truveo.com/Raw-Video-Suspect%E2%80%99s-Family-At-Jail/id/2151805497

3. Text article dated 4-20 says that pastor Lane Lawless told reporter David Begnaud that he has not seen Melissa since her arrest and has no plans to visit her in jail. Additionally, he tells reporter that he will have a lot to say when this is all over. Really?! Link below from Channel 13 (CBS), Sacramento:

http://cbs13.com/crime/melissa.huckaby.grandfather.2.989048.html


It appears, to me at least, that he does not see himself as a patriarch of his family even though he evidently still does when it comes to his church of 15-25 members. I find it odd. I would expect him to be there for his son, Brian, and his own wife, Connie, at least.
[JMO * Themis]

[dinojen]

They had services in the church for Easter and again after that.. so you would think they would be done with it.. it is kind of odd that they went back for more evidence (if that's what it was) after how many people have been in and out of there. :confused:

Think today's hearing is just going to be setting things up.. as for change of venue, lifting the gag (which I don't see happening IMO).. don't think we will hear a plea.. and maybe the judge may set a few more rules..

Dang it's only 10:30 here.. geesh...:rolleyes:

[meadowlark]

If they are still haveing Sunday services as well as possible Weds. Night services, wouldn't some evidence be tampered with. with folks walking around, in & out, etc?

yes, any evidence coming out of there has been contaminated. Or evidence could have been removed or taken and put there.

I don't see how it can be used in a court of law and I am sure it will be challenged at some point. Especially, if they end up saying the church was a crime scene.

[lunchlady]

Cutters don't just cut their wrists. Some of them want to hide it so they cut their thighs or their belly. The wrists are hard to conceal, but of course some cutters like that. Some of them who do the wrists cut to different depths depending how distressed they are.
Wrist cutting isn't actually a very efficient way to kill yourself, unless you cut deeply enough and discourage clotting at the site. It can certainly be done but a lot of wrist cutting is provocative or serves some other purpose than attempting suicide.

Cutting is usually just a symptom of some larger problem.

[oodi]

yes, any evidence coming out of there has been contaminated. Or evidence could have been removed or taken and put there.

I don't see how it can be used in a court of law and I am sure it will be challenged at some point. Especially, if they end up saying the church was a crime scene.

They couldn't use it for any biological or fingerprint evidence, and obviously that wasn't what they were looking for. BUT... they could use it for identification purposes, if the blinds match something in pics or videos, for example.

[For Gabriel]

Thanks to everyone for the good links! Very impressive work.

Just looked up Clarkson, Washington; it is a small town with less than 8,000 population (2000 census) and small in area, too -- only 2 square miles. It is adjacent to Lewiston, Idaho so their nickname is 'the twin cities'; named for Lewis and Clark, the explorers.

As for comments about pastor (Clifford) Lane Lawless and his wife, Connie, up above, I am remembering the early days and the videos, etc.

1. Video dated 4-7-09 when reporters question the couple while they are seated in their car, and Connie does 95% of the talking. The pastor has very little to say and most of it is inaudible either because he looks down and lowers his voice or mumbles or the mike malfunctions. Link below from Channel 13 (CBS), Sacramento:

http://cbs13.com/video/?id=51564@kovr.dayport.com

2. Video dated 4-23-09 when reporters question Brian Lawless, father of Melissa Huckaby. He says family members cried and prayed with her. You can see the pastor in the early part of the film (white shirt with green horizontal stripes) but he says nothing. I think he purposely is hanging back and actually moves out of camera range. Brian says he and his mother, Connie, talked to Melissa with a window separating them. I think this is odd because Lane Lawless is obviously the one who is a trained/educated pastor and yet he did not take part. Again, he is physically (and emotionally?) removing himself from his own grand daughter in her most dire time of need for pastoral counseling. Avoiding speaking with reporters, too? Link below from Channel 13 (CBS), Sacramento:

http://www.truveo.com/Raw-Video-Suspect%E2%80%99s-Family-At-Jail/id/2151805497

3. Text article dated 4-20 says that pastor Lane Lawless told reporter David Begnaud that he has not seen Melissa since her arrest and has no plans to visit her in jail. Additionally, he tells reporter that he will have a lot to say when this is all over. Really?! Link below from Channel 13 (CBS), Sacramento:

http://cbs13.com/crime/melissa.huckaby.grandfather.2.989048.html


It appears, to me at least, that he does not see himself as a patriarch of his family even though he evidently still does when it comes to his church of 15-25 members. I find it odd. I would expect him to be there for his son, Brian, and his own wife, Connie, at least.
[JMO * Themis]

That has been my question all along. You would think he would be there, etc. He IS the pastor and grandfather, yet he is acting like a shrinking violet. This man has a story, imo!

[For Gabriel]

yes, any evidence coming out of there has been contaminated. Or evidence could have been removed or taken and put there.

I don't see how it can be used in a court of law and I am sure it will be challenged at some point. Especially, if they end up saying the church was a crime scene.

ITA. That church should have been shut & sealed off until after the trial. If the "preacher" wanted to hold services, he could have found another building to do such.

[Themis]

That has been my question all along. You would think he would be there, etc. He IS the pastor and grandfather, yet he is acting like a shrinking violet. This man has a story, imo!
True, Gabriel. His behavior so far has just been odd. I do not expect him to deny or confirm that he thinks MH is guilty or innocent. I do not expect him to be a fountain of information on the family dynamics. Obviously, the family was given the advice to say nothing that could affect a future trial one way or the other.

It just seems to me that as a pastor, a husband, a father, a grandfather to 9... he could express his deep sorrow and condolences to the Cantu family.
He could then ask for everyone to understand that this is an extremely difficult and sad time for all of the Lawless family and request that they be given privacy. But instead, as you said, Gabriel, he is acting like a shrinking violet. Maybe someone else would even use the word 'ostrich.' [JMO * Themis]

[Firefly]

Firefly, I agree with your first paragraph and appreciate the thoughtful information about the medical examiner.

But I think this will turn out to be Murder in the Second degree, that is, a death caused by wanton disregard for life. As in, she allowed Sandra to ride on the hood of the car and she fell off and then ran over her.

I too am alone in my assessment I think, but the fact that everyone is roundly in disbelief that a woman could act alone and do what she is charged with - coupled with the fact that she has confessed but states it was an accident . . . leads me to believe it was an accident. She knows they have the forensics, and still states it was an accident.

I think she could have fallen and caused external bruising, and this has caused this really almost incredible story of sexual assault - a murder with brutal sexual assault, and disposal of the remains - that took place in less than an hour. S T R E T C H E S believability.

Occam's razor - the simplest answer is usually the correct one.

We'll see, probably not anytime soon.

You're using riding on the hood as an example right? Not saying that you believe that was the cause of death? I don't *think* we've had any testimony that people saw Melissa Huckaby driving around the neighborhood with children hanging on the car. :biggrin:

Actually...I find the wanton disregard for life thing to be the stretch. If Melissa had accidentally backed over Sandra with her car, and then panicked and thought "no one will believe me I better hide the body"...then this doesn't explain why there is a second child's case of drugging.

In many ways I think I'm viewing Melissa Huckaby in a far harsher light than people who believe she is a sexual molester. A sexual molester starts because something was done TO THEM. An argument for pity toward the molester can even be made in those cases. "So bend the branch, so grows the tree". Argued because the molester was a victim also and just passed it on again.

Personally, I think Melissa's motivation was far colder in a way. It wasn't born out of a human failing...or some yawning need to fill up some hole in her psyche. She, I believe, simply grew to despise these children who came to play with her daughter. She just didn't like them. Specifically those children. I would argue that this dislike didn't extend to any other children because we have reports of her functioning in society and with no other reports being made against her...except for these two cases. To me, it seems almost like she was regarding these children like vermin. And she was trying to find a way to rid her life of them.

Occam's Razor applied to this whole affair shows that the simplest common denominator...so far...is that both of these children were playmates of her daughter, and that Melissa Huckaby had access (and the suitcase..hers, she admits) and that she is the prime candidate by her actions and words to be charged with murder. After that it gets murky...and I'm worried this "murkiness" could be were the prosecution messes up. If they run with an assumption that is not supported (sexual assult...if indeed it is Not supported..which we don't know if it is or not IMO) and can not back it up, then I worry the CLEAR evidence that is there against Melissa Huckaby (for murder) could be tainted by the errors from these other, less clear, avenues.

I feel bad for the cops and the prosecution. The cops spent a couple of weeks slogging through mud...through fields I probably wouldn't let my DOG go and play in..getting sunburned and insect bit searching for the missing girl...and they get to enjoy five days for having solved the case in a VERY rapid and professional manner...and then have it all shot down when it comes out that they MIGHT have been able to prevent the murder if they had arrested MH back in January. Heros one day; villains the next.

I feel bad for the prosecution because they aren't getting the evidence they thought they would and they may have painted themselves into a corner that they can't back out of. They have made an accusation of sexual assault. Now they have to prove it. That would be a lot easier to show if they had beaucoup people lined up to testify. But that seems to be flopping a bit.

Like you say...we'll see.

[For Gabriel]

True, Gabriel. His behavior so far has just been odd. I do not expect him to deny or confirm that he thinks MH is guilty or innocent. I do not expect him to be a fountain of information on the family dynamics. Obviously, the family was given the advice to say nothing that could affect a future trial one way or the other.

It just seems to me that as a pastor, a husband, a father, a grandfather to 9... he could express his deep sorrow and condolences to the Cantu family.
He could then ask for everyone to understand that this is an extremely difficult and sad time for all of the Lawless family and request that they be given privacy. But instead, as you said, Gabriel, he is acting like a shrinking violet. Maybe someone else would even use the word 'ostrich.' [JMO * Themis]

Now that you mention it, has he even came out w/ a statement to Sandra's family?

[aproudmom]

Geesh woman ya think this is going to be a daily thing me getting you latte's...:tonguewag: Heading that way in about 5 will pick it up and tell them extra hot... so it stays warm.

Check KCRA this morning and nothing new about the WA church talks.. wonder what that was all about.

All the local channels have been talking about the hearing today and the lottery for tickets to get in. Remember the lottery for the Peterson trial. The judge might also be having this closed trying to keep some control as to hopefully not have a change of venue... but heck this story is national so I don't see how they could move it anywhere.. everyone is talking about it or reporting on it.

Still reporting the hearing starts at 12:45 today.. have a feeling it won't be that long.. guess we will have to just wait for reports outside after .

Heading out.. put your hand out the window as I drive by to grab your latte dear...:wink:

Heck ya I need my latte for the day.:tonguewag:.lol..just got back on so have not seen if anything new since this morning..I hate darn gag orders..actually Florida got me spoiled getting all the info in the case..but guess no cameras in this courtroom.

[meadowlark]

They couldn't use it for any biological or fingerprint evidence, and obviously that wasn't what they were looking for. BUT... they could use it for identification purposes, if the blinds match something in pics or videos, for example.

yes, what I should have said and what I meant is, the "crime scene" is contaminated (whether or not this is the actual crime scene, but it has something to do with something done there). Anything there now might not have been there before, or anything there before could have been taken out, things could have been moved to other rooms etc. In a court of law I am sure they will bring this up.

I don't believe they were taking any of the items for any dna or fingerprints, as they were handling them without gloves and they are touching them all over and just kind of tossed them in the back of the truck.

I do believe they are probably trying to match them to things in a video or on film. It is my guess they have film, tapes, net photos or something they are going through and trying to match.

this is all just my own opinion, no one has said they have any of these photographic images, but I personally have thought early on they had sandra's photo somewhere on something. they kept insisting she was alive. I think they saw her live image somewhere. just my guess.

"IF" they are still viewing through things they might be seeing things in these images they remember seeing in the church.

[Ice Cycle]

ITA. That church should have been shut & sealed off until after the trial. If the "preacher" wanted to hold services, he could have found another building to do such.

Hi, Yes I said this along time ago as though it was odd if they thought that was were it happened that they would of opened it back up so soon (for Easter). Alot commented that they do they with crime scenes but I found it odd especially since it was a public place. I have never been certain that the crime was actually committed there, though I know it is possible. The only report I heard was from a reporter that said source close to the investigation, if LE said it happened there then I never heard it.

[aproudmom]

Starbucks delivered...:thumbsup:

:sad: Kind of creepy if a red ribbon really was tied around the suitcase.. I'm hoping it was like a bow.. maybe they meant a red ribbon on the handle like people do to recognize their suitcases on turntables at the airport.. just a thought.. I can't imagine anyone wrapping a red ribbon like a package.. but then again we have heard worst things I guess..

Wonder how much of this is going to be kept under wrap till trial.. that's going to drive us insane you realize if nothing is released till the trial:w00t:

OMG I just had that run through my mind I knew it was reported but we never could confirm it IIRC...I know my sister ties one on her handle so she can find it easier when she travels..maybe that is what it was..

[Themis]

Now that you mention it, has he even came out w/ a statement to Sandra's family?
*IF* I remember correctly, pastor Lawless has not. Maybe he did so more recently and it did not get reported.
However, it was discussed some time ago among posters here that they were stunned that he had not paid a visit to the Cantu family home to express his deep sorrow and to offer condolences.
I cannot offer that as a fact; am only repeating what I have read.
On the other hand, Brian Lawless has, on at least a couple of occasions expressed sorrow and sympathy to the Cantu family. [JMO * Themis]

[aproudmom]

The only thing I could find about the pastor they traveled to see had reference to Cottonwood, ID... but no church refernce (I'm assuming Baptist?)

About the search of CRBChurch yesterday... it looks like they removed boards/wood/lumber. I'm disturbed about why.
I saved a few pics from the video.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Sandra%20Cantu/

I found one in cottonwood last night..that had the name of the pastor that the media had called.. k well I need to get caught up..but did find a link did not post it..I will check out your pic they have been nice to have thanks again..got you in my favorites..lol..

[VC2]

Firefly, I agree with your first paragraph and appreciate the thoughtful information about the medical examiner.

But I think this will turn out to be Murder in the Second degree, that is, a death caused by wanton disregard for life. As in, she allowed Sandra to ride on the hood of the car and she fell off and then ran over her.

I too am alone in my assessment I think, but the fact that everyone is roundly in disbelief that a woman could act alone and do what she is charged with - coupled with the fact that she has confessed but states it was an accident . . . leads me to believe it was an accident. She knows they have the forensics, and still states it was an accident.

I think she could have fallen and caused external bruising, and this has caused this really almost incredible story of sexual assault - a murder with brutal sexual assault, and disposal of the remains - that took place in less than an hour. S T R E T C H E S believability.

Occam's razor - the simplest answer is usually the correct one.

We'll see, probably not anytime soon.

Oh i think the prosecution has convincing evidence about rape with a foreign object. Either it was confessed, or more likely, the foreign object was left in place either in sandra's vagina or anus.

It is not a charge they would come up with based on little evidence in this case. If it was a registered sex offender maybe, but the rape probably didn't even occur to them until either there was actual evidence or a confession.

As far as dying accidentally, well i guess it depends what you call an accident. Most murderers say it was an accident. IMO

far as removing the gag order, i hope they do and i understand why they want to. There are so many crazy rumors going around that they can't comment on because of it, including ones that must scare the parents in the area - such as she wasn't alone etc. They can't even come out and say again that there is no other suspect, she did it alone and parents don't need to be afraid another killer of Sandra's is walking around.

IMO

[ginky41]

Firefly, a couple of thoughts/questions about your posts above:

If MH's intent with these girls is *murder,* then why didn't she murder the other 7yo little girl? Why was she returned to her family later in the evening? If her intent with Sandra is *murder* then why is she claiming her death was an accident? I think Sandra's COD will answer that definitively once it's made public.

Regarding other possible victims of MH.... We only know of two for sure, the 7yo and Sandra. What we don't know is how many may have come forward to LE. Maybe there are more? Maybe there aren't, we just don't know. LE has done a good job of keeping many details private, this could be another. We only know of the ones speaking publicly.

Regarding the jealousy toward the other little girls that played with her daughter... The fact that they are older and played with her daughter who is younger means nothing to me, other than they were neighbors. I have 2 kids at home, they LOVE to play with the neighbors and don't give much thought to their ages. It's simply a matter of logisitics. Perhaps these were the only two other little girls in the MH park and that's why they were playmates.

I don't mean this as an attack your post in any way, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate by asking some questions.

There are so many unknowns in this case. :confused:

[omsk99]

the slashing wrists info came from here

Another friend — who said she knew Huckaby very well during the two years before Huckaby was assaulted and also asked for anonymity — said she knew the preacher’s daughter had deep-seated troubles, but never knew their extent. The friend said she knew Huckaby would slash her wrists at times, and wore long-sleeved shirts in the summer to hide the self-inflicted gashes.

http://tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Huckaby%20told%20friends%20she%20was%20raped%20=&page_label=home&id=2341927-Huckaby+told+friends+she+was+raped&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

just giving info where it came from, not sure what I beleive about it.


Thank you! I hadn't heard about this until today. They seem to be one mssed up family :scared:

[For Gabriel]

*IF* I remember correctly, pastor Lawless has not. Maybe he did so more recently and it did not get reported.
However, it was discussed some time ago among posters here that they were stunned that he had not paid a visit to the Cantu family home to express his deep sorrow and to offer condolences.
I cannot offer that as a fact; am only repeating what I have read.
On the other hand, Brian Lawless has, on at least a couple of occasions expressed sorrow and sympathy to the Cantu family. [JMO * Themis]

Gramps has been kinda hnky for ME from day one. I would hope he has said SOMETHING to the family, it's the least he could do!:rolleyes:

[aproudmom]

Video link of visit to church in WA

http://www.kcra.com/video/19268247/index.html

ok this is getting real weird..very weird..:ohmy: what is going on with these 2 churches being searched the allegations from the 80s..

[omsk99]

It was very inetersting to read what some of you think motivated MH, and why/how this happened.

For one, I personally do not think that MH is a sexual predator, i.e. she is attracted to little girls. I tend to believe, based on everything I've read about this case so far, that she was involved in child pornography, and did it for money. It was easy for her, since she had pretty much unlimited access to little children through her daughter and by being a volunteer Sunday school teacher.

Maybe the other 7-year old passed out, and she fereaked out, and didn't accomplish her "mission". I think she drugged Sandra to take photos/videos, and Sandra died of an overdose. That, in her mind, is an "accident". Also, IIRC, she is charged with murder "in the course of kidnapping", which to me (and I could be completely wrong) implies murder was not the main intention, but it occurred as a consequence of her actions.

I also believe more and more that her GF, the pastor, is involved, based on the continuing searches of the church and the initial searches of his home (although yes, MH lives there, too).

As far as other children/families not coming forward, sadly, children may not report it to their parents or teachers, as they are either ashamed of it, or may not understand the gravity of what had happened to them. Even parents may not come forward for the same reason of "shame", or the fear of being blamed for not having protected their child(ren).

I do hope the gag order will be lifted or lessened (don't know if that's the right word here), so we can learn more about the vidence the prosecution has.

I wish a second autopsy had been done right away (not now), so that it doesn't damage the prosecution's case. But I think they must have very strong evidence to not only say Sandra was raped, but with a "foreign object". They must know what it is, or have it. I do not think MH confessed to the rape, because in that case MH's attorneys wouldn't be asking for a second autopsy to argue with the rape charge. JMO.

[aproudmom]

hmmm mid 80's, okay lets see what all is going on up there in mid 80's.
looking for missing and unsolved murders in the area.

Funny his records never mentioned he was a pastor up there, so now here is just one more area he moved around to over the years. so he would be familiar with that idaho area.

now what does the first church of god have to do with Baptist pastors? are they an off-branch? or what?

and who is this CID johnson?

I was reading a lot since you got me thinking last night and all the comments and blogs and found some that said he was not always a Baptist..not sure if true but did read it..it was being talked about on a lot of media links that he branched off..but not sure if I even saved them so not going to say he has done anything..but is very odd..:confused:

[dinojen]

I'm not too familiar with gag orders. Does this mean we hear NOTHING?

No COD, place of crime etc?

TIA


Yep... if the judge on this case lets the gag order sit.. we won't hear much of anything except for maybe what goes on in the courtroom..

A gag order (or suppression order) is an order, sometimes a legal order by a court or government, other times a private order by an employer or other institution, restricting information or comment from being made public.

Gag orders are often used against participants involved in a lawsuit or criminal trial. They are also a tool to prevent media from publishing unwanted information on a particular topic. A Criminal Court, for instance, will issue a gag order on the media if the judge believes that potential jurors in a future trial will be influenced by the media reporting or speculation on the early stages of a case. Another example might be to ensure police are not impeded in their investigations by media publicity about a case.

In a similar manner, a gag law is intended to limit freedom of the press, as by instituting censorship or restricting access to information.

But don't think that will make the autopsy results available or the tox reports...

[MoonHarvest]

I'm reading here everyday, but not saying much, as I don't know what to think about this case. It will be a very interesting trial.

I hope Sandra's family is able to move. I believe a kind soul out there will probably make a way for them.

[oodi]

Breaking news per KCRA noon newscast:

FBI first went to the church in Clarkson, WA on Good Friday... the same day MH was arrested.

Also, talking to some parishioner(s) of the church in WA... the names "Clifford Lawless" or "Lane Lawless" were not familiar, but the name "Clifford Huckaby" did sound familiar.

[psbperu]

VC2: Great post

The charge of rape with a foreign object most likely is based on good evidence & not frivolously made.

Seem to remember them removing a blind from the Lawless home at the time they removed the computers etc. Photo of LE doing so...will look it up later.

Hope we are privy to more once the gag order is lifted.

[Ice Cycle]

Yep... if the judge on this case lets the gag order sit.. we won't hear much of anything except for maybe what goes on in the courtroom..

A gag order (or suppression order) is an order, sometimes a legal order by a court or government, other times a private order by an employer or other institution, restricting information or comment from being made public.

Gag orders are often used against participants involved in a lawsuit or criminal trial. They are also a tool to prevent media from publishing unwanted information on a particular topic. A Criminal Court, for instance, will issue a gag order on the media if the judge believes that potential jurors in a future trial will be influenced by the media reporting or speculation on the early stages of a case. Another example might be to ensure police are not impeded in their investigations by media publicity about a case.

In a similar manner, a gag law is intended to limit freedom of the press, as by instituting censorship or restricting access to information.

But don't think that will make the autopsy results available or the tox reports...

Well who is going to be able to say what went on in the courtroom, I mean is this order only to officials or also to the general public? Also can reporter uses the sources say and report on it, just curious?

[dinojen]

Well who is going to be able to say what went on in the courtroom, I mean is this order only to officials or also to the general public? Also can reporter uses the sources say and report on it, just curious?

Not sure either how it all works... trying to remember what happened in past trials here in CA. Guess we will find out more shortly maybe...

It's 12:15 here so court should start in about a half hour.

[GentleBreeze]

Firefly, I agree with your first paragraph and appreciate the thoughtful information about the medical examiner.

But I think this will turn out to be Murder in the Second degree, that is, a death caused by wanton disregard for life. As in, she allowed Sandra to ride on the hood of the car and she fell off and then ran over her.

I too am alone in my assessment I think, but the fact that everyone is roundly in disbelief that a woman could act alone and do what she is charged with - coupled with the fact that she has confessed but states it was an accident . . . leads me to believe it was an accident. She knows they have the forensics, and still states it was an accident.

I think she could have fallen and caused external bruising, and this has caused this really almost incredible story of sexual assault - a murder with brutal sexual assault, and disposal of the remains - that took place in less than an hour. S T R E T C H E S believability.

Occam's razor - the simplest answer is usually the correct one.

We'll see, probably not anytime soon.

How could it be 2nd Degree. This murder happened while the defendant was in the commission of committing other felonies (kidnapping and rape), hence the felony murder charge.:confused: Sandra's mother did not know where her daughter was or who had taken her. She gave no one permission to take her child from that MHP.

She was only minutes away from where she threw Sandra away and she said she had been to that farm in the past.

The sexual assault wouldn't have to take a very long time to do extreme damage and create genital trauma.

I do think she is a pedophile and a sociopath. It doesn't shock me that others who she may have abused in the past doesn't come forward. How long did it take the young boys to come forward in the Priests sexual assault cases? Most of them withheld that information until they were way into their adulthood.

I would think it would be just as uncomfortable and humiliating for victims to come forward to say they had been raped or molested by a female, especially if all her victims were little girls. With Huckaby, who knows maybe she drugged her victims each time and their memories were erased by the drugs.

imo

[aproudmom]

They couldn't use it for any biological or fingerprint evidence, and obviously that wasn't what they were looking for. BUT... they could use it for identification purposes, if the blinds match something in pics or videos, for example.

they had no gloves on so I have to agree with you..if they needed them for prints or DNA they would contaminate them by carrying them and placing them in a car like that..so not sure why they took them

[GentleBreeze]

Well who is going to be able to say what went on in the courtroom, I mean is this order only to officials or also to the general public? Also can reporter uses the sources say and report on it, just curious?

The media that is in the hearing will come out and give a synopsis of what was said in the hearing today. The gag order doesn't include them.

imoo

[For Gabriel]

I forget some of you guys are 3 hours behind me. Can someone post as soon as you hear something? I have to turn my puter over to ds so he can check out his Facebook page! LOL:laugh:

[aproudmom]

ITA. That church should have been shut & sealed off until after the trial. If the "preacher" wanted to hold services, he could have found another building to do such.

there is a video of a service they allowed media to come in..anyone know if it is in he links..hate to say it but I remember cause I thought it was dark and gloomy and reminded me of a funeral home..if that makes since or maybe it just creeped me out not knowing what could have happened in there..they did not allow them to video the SS classroom

[aproudmom]

I forget some of you guys are 3 hours behind me. Can someone post as soon as you hear something? I have to turn my puter over to ds so he can check out his Facebook page! LOL:laugh:

Dont you hate having to have to share the puter:biggrin:

[Ice Cycle]

The media that is in the hearing will come out and give a synopsis of what was said in the hearing today. The gag order doesn't include them.

imoo

Well at least that's something, thanks.

[aproudmom]

Pastor Lane Lawless was saved in Wenatchee, Washington, In April of 1960. He was baptized July 9, 1960 by the authority of the Eastside Missionary Baptist Church of East Wenatchee. Elder A.A. Harris administered the ordinance. He was called to the ministry on April 6, 1971 and ordained August 20, 1971 by the Winton MBC.

Pastor Lawless received his theological education from the Alisal Baptist Institute of Salinas and the Baptist Theological Seminary of Hayward. He also studied under the tutelage of Eld. A.A. Harris.

The churches Elder Lawless has pastored are Beacon MBC of Redding and Grace MBC of Gardena. In 1975, he was sent out by Salinas MBC to do mission work in Eureka. He then pastured Sovereign Grace MBC of Mountain View, and has been pastor at the Clover Road Baptist Church since 1981.

Pastor Lawless' wife, Connie, is the daughter of A.A. and Irene Harris. They were married by Eld. Harris on July 9, 1960 in Modesto, CA. They have three grown children Brian, Brett, and Joni, who are all involved in God's work, and nine beloved grandchildren.

So Harris is CL family IIRC so why is this other church not on here??

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/Pastor1.html

[GentleBreeze]

Well at least that's something, thanks.

Of course Dino is right...other than courtroom hearings, I don't think much more information is going to come out unless the media reports what "their sources" are telling them.:smile:

imo

[dinojen]

12:30 here... damn I hate that we don't have live feed... grrrr....

Just curious as what is going to go on...

Don't think they will lift the gag order.. JMO

Don't think they will give the PD a change of venue.. JMO.. CA has no $$$$$$$$$$ and hell everyone in the states have heard and read about this case.. so why move it.

Don't think there will be a plea today.. PD hasn't had the case long enough...


HOPEFULLY the judge will rethink her thought on camera's in the courtroom..:tonguewag:

[dinojen]

The woman accused in the rape and killing of eight-year-old Sandra Cantu is due back court today and dozens of people are lining up hoping to get a seat inside the courtroom.

Melissa Huckaby is scheduled to make her second court appearance in San Joaquin County Court after being charged with murder with special circumstances, including kidnapping and rape with a foreign object.

Widespread interest in the case has the court bracing for an overflow crowd. Those who want a seat will have to win one of 30 seats through a drawing.

"I really want to see history in the making," said Anna Ford who is hoping to get a seat inside the court room. "I want to hear it and see it for myself, not read it from the newspaper or hear somebody talk about it where it could be misconstrued. I want to see it for mayself as it unfolds."

Media cameras will not be allowed in the courtroom but a CBS13 reporter will be there.

Meanwhile, prosecutors and Huckaby's lawyer are at odds over the forensic evidence from the girl's autopsy.

Public defender Peter Fox is attacking the credibility of San Joaquin County's chief medical examiner, Dr. Bennet Omalu. Fox claims that some attorneys have complained that Omalu's opinions in other homicide cases were biased toward the prosecution.

Omalu has not responded to Fox's claims because of a gag order in the case.

http://cbs13.com/local/melissa.huckaby.arraignment.2.993331.html

[ginky41]

How could it be 2nd Degree. This murder happened while the defendant was in the commission of committing other felonies (kidnapping and rape), hence the felony murder charge.:confused: Sandra's mother did not know where her daughter was or who had taken her. She gave no one permission to take her child from that MHP.

She was only minutes away from where she threw Sandra away and she said she had been to that farm in the past.

The sexual assault wouldn't have to take a very long time to do extreme damage and create genital trauma.

I do think she is a pedophile and a sociopath. It doesn't shock me that others who she may have abused in the past doesn't come forward. How long did it take the young boys to come forward in the Priests sexual assault cases? Most of them withheld that information until they were way into their adulthood.

I would think it would be just as uncomfortable and humiliating for victims to come forward to say they had been raped or molested by a female, especially if all her victims were little girls. With Huckaby, who knows maybe she drugged her victims each time and their memories were erased by the drugs.

imo

Really great points Breeze! :seeya:

[dinojen]

http://www.cbs13.com/video/?id=52721@kovr.dayport.com

[omsk99]

STOCKTON — Members of the media are gathering at the San Joaquin County courthouse this morning awaiting the second court appearance of Melissa Huckaby, who is charged with kidnapping, raping and killing an 8-year-old Tracy girl.

About a dozen TV trucks are parked outside, although cameras are not being allowed inside the courtroom.

The 28-year-old single mother is being held without bail in connection with the death of Sandra Cantu, who went missing from her mobile home park March 27 and was found dead April 6.

Supporters of Cantu are out in force as well, wearing their "Justice for Sandra" T-shirts.

Today's court proceedings could involve a number of actions: Huckaby could enter a plea; the results of her mental health evaluation could be released; and there could be a debate over the validity of the forensic examination of Cantu's body, which the defense has suggested is questionable.

There is a gag order on the case, prohibiting lawyers and police from commenting on it, and the court has banned cameras from the courtroom and limited the number of media seats.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_12218843

[omsk99]

~ snip

"Melissa Huckaby's former roommate says she's not surprised at the accusations.

Evelyn Lloyd, who lived with Huckaby for eight months, told NBC Bay Area that she believes Huckaby set her up to take the fall for an arson in 2007. La Palma police confirm Huckaby is now suspected of setting the house fire where she lived with Lloyd.

"No one knows how long she's been doing this and finally got caught," Lloyd said. "

http://www.inlandnewstoday.com/story.php?s=8054

[MoonHarvest]

Thanks Jen ... :seeya:

[aproudmom]

http://www.cbs13.com/video/?id=52721@kovr.dayport.com

is this a video of something there are several on here which one am I suppose to look at..lol.:tonguewag:

[both_of_us]

Just enough spots for media at Huckaby hearing

http://www.ibabuzz.com/onassignment/

[dinojen]

Got my twitter open... yes I was desperate so I got a twitter... whatever... says Dan Herman is in the courtroom for KRON but he's not typing anything.. been in there 18 mins. now...

Maybe they can't use their Blackberry's...lol

[aproudmom]

~ snip

"Melissa Huckaby's former roommate says she's not surprised at the accusations.

Evelyn Lloyd, who lived with Huckaby for eight months, told NBC Bay Area that she believes Huckaby set her up to take the fall for an arson in 2007. La Palma police confirm Huckaby is now suspected of setting the house fire where she lived with Lloyd.

"No one knows how long she's been doing this and finally got caught," Lloyd said. "

http://www.inlandnewstoday.com/story.php?s=8054

yeah didn't this girl spend time in jail over this..the landlord sounded like she needed to have her head checked also..jmo

[aproudmom]

Got my twitter open... yes I was desperate so I got a twitter... whatever... says Dan Herman is in the courtroom for KRON but he's not typing anything.. been in there 18 mins. now...

Maybe they can't use their Blackberry's...lol

oh man you got a link to one in the courtroom? surely someone will sneak one in I would.:biggrin:.lol. sure they are patting people down big time to many want to take the law in their own hands....

[both_of_us]

Melissa huckaby no plea in sandra cantu murder case. She remained silent at arraignment. Next court date 5/22.
2 minutes ago from TwitterBerry

http://twitter.com/iconoscope

[MoonHarvest]

Got my twitter open... yes I was desperate so I got a twitter... whatever... says Dan Herman is in the courtroom for KRON but he's not typing anything.. been in there 18 mins. now...

Maybe they can't use their Blackberry's...lol


:laugh: regarding twitter.

[dinojen]

is this a video of something there are several on here which one am I suppose to look at..lol.:tonguewag:



Geesh click on the link I put for the video... it starts with an interview and goes into a report about the pathologist. :tonguewag:

Been in there 22 mins. now... damn twitter.. why isn't Herman twittering..:huh:

[dinojen]

Melissa huckaby no plea in sandra cantu murder case. She remained silent at arraignment. Next court date 5/22.
2 minutes ago from TwitterBerry

http://twitter.com/iconoscope


Thats what I get for twittering with KRON...lol.

Hell I don't even know what I'm doing...:tongueside:


LMBO just read your twit.. and it says no twittering in the courtroom... lmbo

[MoonHarvest]

Melissa huckaby no plea in sandra cantu murder case. She remained silent at arraignment. Next court date 5/22.
2 minutes ago from TwitterBerry

http://twitter.com/iconoscope

And to think all of those folks stood in line for that.:huh:

[both_of_us]

Thats what I get for twittering with KRON...lol.

Hell I don't even know what I'm doing...:tongueside:

Me neither. :laugh:

Next court date is in a month. :ohmy:

[dinojen]

The woman accused in the rape and killing of eight-year-old Sandra Cantu was back in court today but did not enter a plea in the high-profile case.

Melissa Huckaby made her second court appearance in San Joaquin County Court after being charged with murder with special circumstances, including kidnapping and rape with a foreign object.

A conviction on any of the special circumstances would make her eligible for the death penalty.

Huckaby's defense also formally dropped their request to have Sandra's body exhumed so they could perform a second autopsy. The next hearing in the case was scheduled for May 22.


Wonder if they brought up the gag order or change of venue:confused:

[aproudmom]

Got my twitter open... yes I was desperate so I got a twitter... whatever... says Dan Herman is in the courtroom for KRON but he's not typing anything.. been in there 18 mins. now...

Maybe they can't use their Blackberry's...lol

I got it Kron4 guess they cant use them in the courtroom..darn
#cantu Melissa Huckaby court hearing now scheduled to be underway. KRON 4's Dan Kerman is in the courtroom Update soon
25 minutes ago from web

[KittyMom]

I've followed cases before where the judge did not allow media to be online during the proceedings. They could take notes and then wait for a break to post what'd happened.

[dinojen]

Who's Herman?


Some guy who works for KRON that is a slow twitterer... obviously...:cursing:

LOL...

[VC2]

VC2: Great post

The charge of rape with a foreign object most likely is based on good evidence & not frivolously made.

Seem to remember them removing a blind from the Lawless home at the time they removed the computers etc. Photo of LE doing so...will look it up later.

Hope we are privy to more once the gag order is lifted.

well prosecutors asked the autopsy and tox results be sealed because of the sensational nature of them and the emotional harm to the family they could do. That is weird. The family will find out at trial, doubt it will be any easier then or when its finalized. However if they are so sensational i am even more sure that it was an object left in place that caused the rape charge.

imo
that was from a msnbc reporter who was in the court

[dinojen]

And to think all of those folks stood in line for that.:huh:

No kidding...

[aproudmom]

well next month..:mad: but we pretty much knew it

[juliekan]

Some guy who works for KRON that is a slow twitterer... obviously...:cursing:

LOL...

my twitter link has yet to say anything! Not one tweet from my twitter...:tongueside:

[Riverwalk!]

Headline news just reported:
Gag order need to protect the public from the horrific nature of this crime
Protect the Cantu family
Protect the rights of the accused
(paraphrasing what the Judge said during the short hearing)

[aproudmom]

Some guy who works for KRON that is a slow twitterer... obviously...:cursing:

LOL...

:thumbsup:lol I must agree

[For Gabriel]

Dont you hate having to have to share the puter:biggrin:

Indeed! LOL

[omsk99]

"KRON 4's Dan Kerman says the former Sunday School teacher wore a red jumpsuit and smiled at her attorney during Friday's short proceedings."

"Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus ruled that the results of the autopsy and other medical tests in the case will remain under seal. She said there's a danger of public outrage if the scientific data were to be made public. The judge says releasing the information would also be harmful to the Cantu family's privacy rights. The defense is also formally withdrawing an earlier request for a second autopsy on Sandra's remains."

More here:
http://www.kron.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1187/reftab/36/t/Melissa-Huckaby-s-Arraignment-Delayed-Again-in-Sandra-Cantu-Case/Default.aspx

More outrage? What did she do?!

[Ice Cycle]

well next month..:mad: but we pretty much knew it

Well I am that up on legal procedures but I don't get it ,what is the purpose for the "no plea", I think it makes her look guilty or more guilty.
Why would the court allow this since it is obviously just a stall? Just thinking out loud and my computer is not answering, ha.

[MoonHarvest]

Doggone gag orders ... :thumbdown:

If this woman likes to seek attention as some here have speculated, she sure is getting it now.:rolleyes:

[For Gabriel]

[QUOTE=Riverwalk!;13042166]Headline news just reported:
Gag order need to protect the public from the horrific nature of this crime


.....that part just sends chills down my spine!

[~jomomma~]

Headline news just reported:
Gag order need to protect the public from the horrific nature of this crime
Protect the Cantu family
Protect the rights of the accused
(paraphrasing what the Judge said during the short hearing)

oh wow!

poor Sandra :crying:

[ginky41]

"KRON 4's Dan Kerman says the former Sunday School teacher wore a red jumpsuit and smiled at her attorney during Friday's short proceedings."

"Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus ruled that the results of the autopsy and other medical tests in the case will remain under seal. She said there's a danger of public outrage if the scientific data were to be made public. The judge says releasing the information would also be harmful to the Cantu family's privacy rights. The defense is also formally withdrawing an earlier request for a second autopsy on Sandra's remains."

More here:
http://www.kron.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1187/reftab/36/t/Melissa-Huckaby-s-Arraignment-Delayed-Again-in-Sandra-Cantu-Case/Default.aspx

More outrage? What did she do?!

OMG....I can't even fathom what that might mean.

For Sandra :rose:

[For Gabriel]

"KRON 4's Dan Kerman says the former Sunday School teacher wore a red jumpsuit and smiled at her attorney during Friday's short proceedings."

"Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus ruled that the results of the autopsy and other medical tests in the case will remain under seal. She said there's a danger of public outrage if the scientific data were to be made public. The judge says releasing the information would also be harmful to the Cantu family's privacy rights. The defense is also formally withdrawing an earlier request for a second autopsy on Sandra's remains."

More here:
http://www.kron.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1187/reftab/36/t/Melissa-Huckaby-s-Arraignment-Delayed-Again-in-Sandra-Cantu-Case/Default.aspx

More outrage? What did she do?!

What did she do? I have a feeling we all will be totally shocked when it all comes out....

[oodi]

Well I am that up on legal procedures but I don't get it ,what is the purpose for the "no plea", I think it makes her look guilty or more guilty.
Why would the court allow this since it is obviously just a stall? Just thinking out loud and my computer is not answering, ha.

From the KRON article, it sounds like the defense hasn't gotten all the evidence yet.... it will take 3 to 4 weeks for the DA's office to get everything to them.

[ginky41]

What did she do? I have a feeling we all will be totally shocked when it all comes out....

I agree.... and I hope whatever it is is guaranteed to put her away for life!

[juliekan]

Well I am that up on legal procedures but I don't get it ,what is the purpose for the "no plea", I think it makes her look guilty or more guilty.
Why would the court allow this since it is obviously just a stall? Just thinking out loud and my computer is not answering, ha.

They can defer entering a plea until the defense has seen more of the evidence in the case. JMO

[dinojen]

"KRON 4's Dan Kerman says the former Sunday School teacher wore a red jumpsuit and smiled at her attorney during Friday's short proceedings."

"Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus ruled that the results of the autopsy and other medical tests in the case will remain under seal. She said there's a danger of public outrage if the scientific data were to be made public. The judge says releasing the information would also be harmful to the Cantu family's privacy rights. The defense is also formally withdrawing an earlier request for a second autopsy on Sandra's remains."

More here:
http://www.kron.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1187/reftab/36/t/Melissa-Huckaby-s-Arraignment-Delayed-Again-in-Sandra-Cantu-Case/Default.aspx

More outrage? What did she do?!

Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus ruled that the results of the autopsy and other medical tests in the case will remain under seal. She said there's a danger of public outrage if the scientific data were to be made public.

Okay being the newly registered twitterer that I am...:tonguewag: ROTFLMBO.. I take the judges comment as meaning.. she knows the area of Tracy and outside of Tracy is outraged at the crime that has been committed and she probably doesn't want to see it get worse with information being released.. it is quite possible she didn't mean it as what happened is "horrific" as HLN reported.. Just a thought...

Pretty much already outraged at the thought of a little girl being molested by a woman..


Man we waited all day for these little tidbits.. what's up with that..:angry:

But it did get me to sign up for TWITTER.. :tonguewag:

[juliekan]

What did she do? I have a feeling we all will be totally shocked when it all comes out....

Remember the presser when Sheneman was talking about MH arrest and his looking so upset and pained? And he said increduously, " I have NO idea what her motive was." I knew it was going to be bizarre and bad after that.

[ginky41]

I have a question...

Will the evidence/information be released to the public during the trial or after? Or is there a chance that the public will never know the details. TIA.

[Ice Cycle]

From the KRON article, it sounds like the defense hasn't gotten all the evidence yet.... it will take 3 to 4 weeks for the DA's office to get everything to them.

Ok, got it and Thanks.

[ginky41]

Remember the presser when Sheneman was talking about MH arrest and his looking so upset and pained? And he said increduously, " I have NO idea what her motive was." I knew it was going to be bizarre and bad after that.

Yep, I remember. He was truly shaken. IMO.

[oodi]

They can defer entering a plea until the defense has seen more of the evidence in the case. JMO

I'm wondering if the DA's office is stalling a bit, to do some more investigating.

[For Gabriel]

I agree.... and I hope whatever it is is guaranteed to put her away for life!

Death is good enough for me, course, that's imo, of course.

[MoonHarvest]

Got to go to lunch. Happy twittering Jen.:lol:

[GentleBreeze]

"KRON 4's Dan Kerman says the former Sunday School teacher wore a red jumpsuit and smiled at her attorney during Friday's short proceedings."

"Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus ruled that the results of the autopsy and other medical tests in the case will remain under seal. She said there's a danger of public outrage if the scientific data were to be made public. The judge says releasing the information would also be harmful to the Cantu family's privacy rights. The defense is also formally withdrawing an earlier request for a second autopsy on Sandra's remains."

More here:
http://www.kron.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1187/reftab/36/t/Melissa-Huckaby-s-Arraignment-Delayed-Again-in-Sandra-Cantu-Case/Default.aspx

More outrage? What did she do?!

I am so sickened to read this. I think it is even worse than I had first thought. Oh how my heart breaks for Sandra and what she had to endure. What a despicable monster this woman is.

RIP, Sandra...no one can hurt you now. :rose:

[GentleBreeze]

They can defer entering a plea until the defense has seen more of the evidence in the case. JMO

I have never seen that happening before an arraignment. Strange and it normally takes the DA a couple of months or more to get all the evidence back in. I thought the DA had to turn over discovery in a certain time line before a trial commences. 30 days, iirc.

imo

[dinojen]

Has she seen the evidence? It seems, to me, unlikely that she's seen what forensics they have, and is assuming that details will shock the public.

Got me... she did just get this case on Monday or Tuesday...

Either way it's a horrible crime.. not sure I would take her comment as being worse than we already think it is... but that's jmo.

[juliekan]

I have never seen that happening before an arraignment. Strange and it normally takes the DA a couple of months or more to get all the evidence back in. I thought the DA had to turn over discovery in a certain time line before a trial commences. 30 days, iirc.

imo

Huckaby plea is unlikely
Request for evidence today more probable, attorney says

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090424/A_NEWS/904240326/-1/A_SPECIAL0263

[aproudmom]

Independent Baptist church?
Independent in a church name means they can believe and worship any way they want right?

[GentleBreeze]

I have a question...

Will the evidence/information be released to the public during the trial or after? Or is there a chance that the public will never know the details. TIA.

The evidence will come out if there is a trial. Since a courtroom is public the media will be allowed to attend and then report on what was testified to like they did today.

Now if she goes ahead a pleas we won't know much. The Judge will just most likely ask her is she guilty of each charge and she will say "yes" (if she pleas).

I do think she is contemplating pleading guilty to the charges rather than expose to the world what she did to Sandra.

imo

[ginky41]

The evidence will come out if there is a trial. Since a courtroom is public the media will be allowed to attend and then report on what was testified to like they did today.

Now if she goes ahead a pleas we won't know much. The Judge will just most likely ask her is she guilty of each charge and she will say "yes" (if she pleas).

I do think she is contemplating pleading guilty to the charges rather than expose to the world what she did to Sandra.

imo

Thanks for the legal info, Breeze.

Makes you wonder if MH knows what LE has against her. It could change the playing field quite a bit if MH thinks she has "gotten away" with anything....

[baywench]

Got me... she did just get this case on Monday or Tuesday...

Either way it's a horrible crime.. not sure I would take her comment as being worse than we already think it is... but that's jmo.


Can't speak for everyone but I know for me hearing what she was raped with exactly and what damage was done would make it worse. It sounds like the details are so horrific that it would cause more harm than good to release them. Raped with a foreign object and killed is enough to justify the charges without the details. At least I hope so. Poor little girl...I pray she was drugged. jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Huckaby plea is unlikely
Request for evidence today more probable, attorney says

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090424/A_NEWS/904240326/-1/A_SPECIAL0263

Thanks.

It seems to me he is checking to see if they have the evidence to find her guilty before she has her arraignment. Still have never heard of that but it would save them time and money and the Chavez/Cantu from having to endure a trial if she just plead guilty.

imoo

[aproudmom]

Has she seen the evidence? It seems, to me, unlikely that she's seen what forensics they have, and is assuming that details will shock the public.

I am not so sure we could be anymore shocked..OK guess we might..I think she has read what they have and just listening on HLN the defense agreeing with a lot means there must be some good evidence..of course it is their job to represent her but I have a feeling we may not even want to know what was done to this child..jmo

[oodi]

Independent Baptist church?
Independent in a church name means they can believe and worship any way they want right?

That's why I asked earlier if anyone knew the difference between the First Church of God in WA and the Clover Road Baptist Church. I thought they were different denominations, and if that was correct, I wondered if there was any significance to CLL's switch.

[ginky41]

Thanks.

It seems to me he is checking to see if they have the evidence to find her guilty before she has her arraignment. Still have never heard of that but it would save them time and money and the Chavez/Cantu from having to endure a trial if she just plead guilty.

imoo


I'm with you Breeze. If the PD finds out that the LE's case is a slam dunk they'd be more likely to take a plea. Or even ask for one.

I'm guessing LE's got a lot on MH...IMO.

[baywench]

I am not clear on a couple of things. I realize hindsight is twenty-twenty but once Sandra was missing did LE go to MH as her purple kia had been mentioned in the first abudction of the 7 year old? I don't understand why the first abuduction wasn't taken more seriously once they realized the child had been drugged. Anybody know? Wouldn't MH be the first person they would go to? Or is it possible that they didn't know about the first one? Was MH call to police their first real contact with her? TIA and jmo

[Riverwalk!]

Has she seen the evidence? It seems, to me, unlikely that she's seen what forensics they have, and is assuming that details will shock the public.

The Judge has to keep up/read/view all evidence as it comes to her in order to rule on the evidence; i.e. chain of command, who touched what/where/when, which lab, which Doctor, which officers/FBI, etc. At any time the Defense can ask that certain things be disallowed and she needs to know what's what with the case she is going to hear.

MOO

[Anakerie]

:scared: Uhm.... Blink On Crime has a post up about a possible relative of MH that is in the Sacramento County Jail on the same sex charges as have been filed on MH...

http://blinkoncrime.com/2009/04/24/sandra-cantu-case-sources-lawless-relative-arrested-on-sex-charges/

A lot of the comments are questioning the relationship between MH and this Timothy Lawless that Blink has the inmate information for... I want to know more too... IS this guy a relative of Melissa's? And what the heck is going on if they both are raping children with foreign objects?????

[GentleBreeze]

Thanks for the legal info, Breeze.

Makes you wonder if MH knows what LE has against her. It could change the playing field quite a bit if MH thinks she has "gotten away" with anything....

Who really knows ginky. Maybe she is telling her attorney she wants to plea but he is advising her to wait and let him see what evidence the DA has against her.

I just know it would be so much better for the Cantu/Chavez family. I am not sure I could even watch this trial if IS was allowed to air it.

I kept up with the Jessica Lunsford case continuously before the trial but I just couldn't make myself do it after the trial began. The last one I watched was Carlie Brucia case and I made myself a promise not to do that again. Cases like this against innocent little children are just too nerve wracking and tragic. They make me depressed and I have nightmares.:sad:

imoo

[ginky41]

I am not clear on a couple of things. I realize hindsight is twenty-twenty but once Sandra was missing did LE go to MH as her purple kia had been mentioned in the first abudction of the 7 year old? I don't understand why the first abuduction wasn't taken more seriously once they realized the child had been drugged. Anybody know? Wouldn't MH be the first person they would go to? Or is it possible that they didn't know about the first one? Was MH call to police their first real contact with her? TIA and jmo

IIRC the officer investigating smelled alcohol on the breath of the 7yo's mom and, IMO, discounted her story. I even read one place that he told the mom he thought she did it and has since issued her an apology. They definitely dropped the ball with the original case but I don't think it was intentional. I just don't think they thought MH was a predator of any kind. Plus, there wasn't any evidence of anything other than the drugging and they couldn't PROVE MH did that.

[aproudmom]

this was early on but seems to me that both the grandparents have health issues..per her brother..in another report he said the Pastor was a ill man. For one sounds like he may want to start asking for help to pay for a lawyer with all the stuff coming out about these churches it could not hurt him..and I hope he is also thinking of how the family of Sandra is feeling instead of what time his sister and brother in law was woke up by LE...IIRC the family ask them not to pray for them..I know they may have been in shock when they made that statement but for one they said no one has came to them since she went missing from that family and they did not want them praying for them they can not even bare to live in the MH park they want to move and I sure hope some will help them do that....jmo
http://www.kcba.com/Global/story.asp?S=10148146

Salinas,Calif- Here on the Central Coast the Alisal Baptist Church in Salinas held a prayer meeting Tuesday night for not only for the little girl's family, but for the pastor's brother-in-law Lane Lawless who is being questioned in Sandra Cantu's murder.

Pastor Harris says that his sister Connie has a heart condition and that the interrogation has been extremely hard on the couple

"He's kind, he's nice, he's giving, caring and here's a man who would not even spank his children when they needed it and I'm thinking this man is not capable hurting anybody especially a little child."

Pastor Harris says that The Salinas Baptist Congregation is behind his brother-in-law and sister. He also says that the couple is not in a financial situation to hire a lawyer, but if they asked for one that the church would find ways to provide.

[For Gabriel]

Death is almost too good, IMO, but better than LWOP. Where she'll be going after the needle there's no parole either.


I know the Bible tells us to not judge, but I really have a hard time believing this girl was ever a Christain, given what she has done.

[juliekan]

:scared: Uhm.... Blink On Crime has a post up about a possible relative of MH that is in the Sacramento County Jail on the same sex charges as have been filed on MH...

http://blinkoncrime.com/2009/04/24/sandra-cantu-case-sources-lawless-relative-arrested-on-sex-charges/

A lot of the comments are questioning the relationship between MH and this Timothy Lawless that Blink has the inmate information for... I want to know more too... IS this guy a relative of Melissa's? And what the heck is going on if they both are raping children with foreign objects?????

sheesh, hope it's not a family tradition...

[For Gabriel]

sheesh, hope it's not a family tradition...

IF they are related, OMG...how low can these people go? It's like worms, they just keep crawling out.

[royals02]

Can't speak for everyone but I know for me hearing what she was raped with exactly and what damage was done would make it worse. It sounds like the details are so horrific that it would cause more harm than good to release them. Raped with a foreign object and killed is enough to justify the charges without the details. At least I hope so. Poor little girl...I pray she was drugged. jmo

I agree with you
Also...they still have not said cause of death...but remember when Sheneman said something about a "murder weapon"
I think the condition of her body must have been horrific...and it would not surpise me to learn that MH may have even mutilated/decapitated poor little Sandra. I think from what we have learned about MH, nothing seems beyond the realm of possibility

[GentleBreeze]

I hope they call a grand jury and indict her in a heartbeat and set a trial date.

Me too.

imo

[kitty1182]

I hope they call a grand jury and indict her in a heartbeat and set a trial date.

So do I...

[Riverwalk!]

I don't think that's been done yet, do you? She hasn't even entered a plea - I doubt the judge is involved in deciding what information is permissible at trial.

Yes, I do think she has read and will read everything that comes through her office/court. She has to, imo. The PD office had earlier requested a second autopsy (no plea either) but she has to know what was done, by whom, when, where, and how in order to rule. The PD office withdrew their motion, but she had to know what was what. That's her job.

MOO

[adpilove]

I am not clear on a couple of things. I realize hindsight is twenty-twenty but once Sandra was missing did LE go to MH as her purple kia had been mentioned in the first abudction of the 7 year old? I don't understand why the first abuduction wasn't taken more seriously once they realized the child had been drugged. Anybody know? Wouldn't MH be the first person they would go to? Or is it possible that they didn't know about the first one? Was MH call to police their first real contact with her? TIA and jmo

I read today online on some Tracy, CA news website that because the mother smelled of beer, the police assumed she had something to do with drugging her daughter. She admitted she had had one beer. They ended up taking away her daughter for the night and placing her in foster care. Mom had to walk home from the hospital. (She had taken her to the hospital when she realized her daughter wasn't feeling well, head slumped over.) At the hospital is when the doctors figured out the daughter had muscle relaxers in her system and they started coming down hard on the mother. The mother thinks its because she's had a tough life, previous drug problem, she had another kid taken away from her years ago and she's never seen that child since. So she thinks the police assumed she had something to do with drugging her daughter when really it was MH. She also called the police very early on in the disappearance of Sandra to let them know to look into Melissa. Sad she wasn't taken seriously!

[ginky41]

Agree but it makes me angry that she was able to get away with taking that little girl without permission and they took her word over that of the girl's grandmother and mother...with Melissa having the blinking nerve to say, 'She claimed she lost my cell number.' She didn't have permission and the police should have done something about that.

I agree Fox but it was a he said/she said situation at that point. The only thing LE knew for certain was that the little girl was drugged and the mom had hd a drink. It was an assumption by LE, and tragically, it was the wrong one. Looking back objectively I have to say that without proof either way, LE's hands were tied.

[dinojen]

IIRC the officer investigating smelled alcohol on the breath of the 7yo's mom and, IMO, discounted her story. I even read one place that he told the mom he thought she did it and has since issued her an apology. They definitely dropped the ball with the original case but I don't think it was intentional. I just don't think they thought MH was a predator of any kind. Plus, there wasn't any evidence of anything other than the drugging and they couldn't PROVE MH did that.

I read on Tracy Press the mother was know to the police and had her own past issues.. many... not saying what happened to her daughter was right.. but... she gave them cause to doubt. Will see if I can dig up the link when I get home. It will give you a idea why the police thought in the line they did... Not bashing Ms. Polk.. but I was surprised when I read it.. she has a long history...

Just as everyone is looking into everyone's background in this case.. unfortunately for this mother of the missing girl in Jan has a past also.

Like I said not bashing her.. just makes me understand why the cops acted the way the night she called them. Like I said will see if I can find the link to post.

[dinojen]

I read today online on some Tracy, CA news website that because the mother smelled of beer, the police assumed she had something to do with drugging her daughter. She admitted she had had one beer. They ended up taking away her daughter for the night and placing her in foster care. Mom had to walk home from the hospital. (She had taken her to the hospital when she realized her daughter wasn't feeling well, head slumped over.) At the hospital is when the doctors figured out the daughter had muscle relaxers in her system and they started coming down hard on the mother. The mother thinks its because she's had a tough life, previous drug problem, she had another kid taken away from her years ago and she's never seen that child since. So she thinks the police assumed she had something to do with drugging her daughter when really it was MH. She also called the police very early on in the disappearance of Sandra to let them know to look into Melissa. Sad she wasn't taken seriously!


Thats the article I read... and I believe one of the cops even asked her if she was on crank...

Hey I know in the little sweet Pollyanna town I live in .. once your kids do something wrong.. your stuck with it.. and the cops don't forget it...:rolleyes:

[Riverwalk!]

I read on Tracy Press the mother was know to the police and had her own past issues.. many... not saying what happened to her daughter was right.. but... she gave them cause to doubt. Will see if I can dig up the link when I get home. It will give you a idea why the police thought in the line they did... Not bashing Ms. Polk.. but I was surprised when I read it.. she has a long history...

Just as everyone is looking into everyone's background in this case.. unfortunately for this mother of the missing girl in Jan has a past also.

Like I said not bashing her.. just makes me understand why the cops acted the way the night she called them. Like I said will see if I can find the link to post.

Here is the link. I put it in the links thread

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&article-Mother%20pointed%20finger%20at%20Huckaby%20early%2 0on%20=&id=2425522-Mother+pointed+finger+at+Huckaby+early+on&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

[For Gabriel]

Is the whole family wacked? I might get bashed for this, but I still say Grampa preacher knows something....

[Riverwalk!]

This is a really good link about the California Insanity Defense. Easy to read (good citations) but LONG .... 31 pages.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:tf1oo-atzVMJ:llr.lls.edu/volumes/v36-issue4/documents/10insanity.pdf+California+%22insanity+defense%22&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

[omsk99]

Remember the presser when Sheneman was talking about MH arrest and his looking so upset and pained? And he said increduously, " I have NO idea what her motive was." I knew it was going to be bizarre and bad after that.

Exactly! The exact quote is "I couldn't begin to even theorize what her motive was" (http://supari.org/sandra-cantu/). Can't imagine knowing what he knows, and seeing what he has seen in this case... :angry:

[juliekan]

Looks like they have established the other sickening child molestor is her relative.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2009/04/24/sandra-cantu-case-sources-lawless-relative-arrested-on-sex-charges/

I

my computer freezes up when I go to scaredmonkeys.com

care to translate?

[baywench]

I read on Tracy Press the mother was know to the police and had her own past issues.. many... not saying what happened to her daughter was right.. but... she gave them cause to doubt. Will see if I can dig up the link when I get home. It will give you a idea why the police thought in the line they did... Not bashing Ms. Polk.. but I was surprised when I read it.. she has a long history...

Just as everyone is looking into everyone's background in this case.. unfortunately for this mother of the missing girl in Jan has a past also.

Like I said not bashing her.. just makes me understand why the cops acted the way the night she called them. Like I said will see if I can find the link to post.


Thank you everyone for your answers! I suppose it also impacted the investigation on the first case that MH is a woman. Had the little girl been found with a man and later determined to be drugged I think LE would have taken it more seriously. We were all blindsided by her arrest and of course, LE had no inkling back then. How sad. I think more victims will come forward, she couldn't have flown under the radar this long. jmo

[omsk99]

Death is good enough for me, course, that's imo, of course.

I am with you on this one.

[oodi]

:scared: Uhm.... Blink On Crime has a post up about a possible relative of MH that is in the Sacramento County Jail on the same sex charges as have been filed on MH...

http://blinkoncrime.com/2009/04/24/sandra-cantu-case-sources-lawless-relative-arrested-on-sex-charges/

A lot of the comments are questioning the relationship between MH and this Timothy Lawless that Blink has the inmate information for... I want to know more too... IS this guy a relative of Melissa's? And what the heck is going on if they both are raping children with foreign objects?????

I'm not sure how credible that "Blink" is. We know about the claim yesterday that the Crime Scene Unit was not at the church, yet the video on his own site clearly showed that they were.

I also have to question the excuse given in the comments for not revealing how this person is related to MH. I could see that as reasoning if it was connected to this case, but it obviously wasn't, or he would have been transported to San Joaquin County and jailed there.

[Riverwalk!]

my computer freezes up when I go to scaredmonkeys.com

care to translate?

It's Blinks report. See above. Same thing.

[For Gabriel]

Thank you everyone for your answers! I suppose it also impacted the investigation on the first case that MH is a woman. Had the little girl been found with a man and later determined to be drugged I think LE would have taken it more seriously. We were all blindsided by her arrest and of course, LE had no inkling back then. How sad. I think more victims will come forward, she couldn't have flown under the radar this long. jmo

I'm glad the "woman" was caught, I am saddened that it was at the expense of a beautiful lil girl. At least, for now, there will be no more victims by Melissa!

[GentleBreeze]

I read on Tracy Press the mother was know to the police and had her own past issues.. many... not saying what happened to her daughter was right.. but... she gave them cause to doubt. Will see if I can dig up the link when I get home. It will give you a idea why the police thought in the line they did... Not bashing Ms. Polk.. but I was surprised when I read it.. she has a long history...

Just as everyone is looking into everyone's background in this case.. unfortunately for this mother of the missing girl in Jan has a past also.

Like I said not bashing her.. just makes me understand why the cops acted the way the night she called them. Like I said will see if I can find the link to post.

I think they were biased and as usual took the word of the Pastor's granddaughter that I am sure just sugarcoated it to no end.:mad:

I am sure they thought MH could do no wrong. I hope it haunts them.

imo

[ginky41]

This is a snippet from an article also on BlinkOnCrime....interesting for sure...

"Agents were seen entering the church for approximately 20 minutes, and left with a few “tubes” in their posession. There are unverified reports that the tubes taken into evidence are projection screens. However, Blink on crime has learned that one of the items is a screen, and the others are blinds. The same source, speaking on condition of anonymity, indicated that Tracy Police and the FBI are in posession of video evidence containing footage of blinds; thus the seizure. The agents were seen removing the evidence without a CSI team which may indicate they do not suspect there is physical evidence to link them to Sandra’s murder."

http://blinkoncrime.com/category/sandra-cantu/

Second article down, below CLL's photo.

[LILMANMAX]

Let's peel the onion in this case and get to the bottom of it.
I'm sure that guy is a relative.
Gruesome :sad:

[juliekan]

It's Blinks report. See above. Same thing.

same thing happens to me at blinks

it's a conspiracy :scared:

[omsk99]

Got me... she did just get this case on Monday or Tuesday...

Either way it's a horrible crime.. not sure I would take her comment as being worse than we already think it is... but that's jmo.

I understand what you mean, but I would imagine that with this case being so high profile, she would at least know the COD and what the "object" is. Don't know how much that leaves to imagination :crying:

[Riverwalk!]

same thing happens to me at blinks

it's a conspiracy :scared:

lol. They are one and the same.

[Dogmatic]

Can't speak for everyone but I know for me hearing what she was raped with exactly and what damage was done would make it worse. It sounds like the details are so horrific that it would cause more harm than good to release them. Raped with a foreign object and killed is enough to justify the charges without the details. At least I hope so. Poor little girl...I pray she was drugged. jmo

I think differently. I think the public has the right and the obligation to know the details, so that there is complete and total ourtgage.

Many children fall victim to crime and by the time there bodies are discovered it's too late to determine the level of torture they endured and so the crime is minimized in court and the public is satisfied to believe that the child died painlessly.

The truth needs to be known, no matter the pain or discomfort it may cause. IMO

Through pain comes change

[ginky41]

I think differently. I think the public has the right and the obligation to know the details, so that there is complete and total ourtgage.

Many children fall victim to crime and by the time there bodies are discovered it's too late to determine the level of torture they endured and so the crime is minimized in court and the public is satisfied to believe that the child died painlessly.

The truth needs to be known, no matter the pain or discomfort it may cause. IMO

Through pain comes change


Great post Dog - ITA!!! I can only hope that Sandra's death turns out to be the impetus that blows this thing wide open - whatever it is.

[KatieLady]

You bet,Juliekan:

SANDRA CANTU CASE: SOURCES- LAWLESS RELATIVE ARRESTED ON SEX CHARGES

BREAKING NEWS

Folsom, CA– As Melissa Huckaby awaits her arraignment in court this afternoon in San Joaquin County, Blinkoncrime.com has discovered the arrest last week of Timothy John Lawless, a relative to Huckaby and the Lawless family. Folsom Police Department verified this afternoon Lawless was arrested on April 15.

Read the rest at Blink on Crime:

Good Lord! :scared: He is 45 years old!

[For Gabriel]

I think differently. I think the public has the right and the obligation to know the details, so that there is complete and total ourtgage.

Many children fall victim to crime and by the time there bodies are discovered it's too late to determine the level of torture they endured and so the crime is minimized in court and the public is satisfied to believe that the child died painlessly.

The truth needs to be known, no matter the pain or discomfort it may cause. IMO

Through pain comes change


I'm thankful this bi**h is off the streets! I'm outraged and I hope more parents, etc are as well.

[aproudmom]

my computer freezes up when I go to scaredmonkeys.com

care to translate?

mine does to so I never go on there..

[For Gabriel]

*Thinking out loud here*

My dd is on Benadryl for this rash she's came down with. First dose today, made her nap for almost 2 hrs. Just gave another dose and by-golly, she's out again! Could Melissa possibly used something like that to make a child lethargic?

[psbperu]

I think differently. I think the public has the right and the obligation to know the details, so that there is complete and total ourtgage.

Many children fall victim to crime and by the time there bodies are discovered it's too late to determine the level of torture they endured and so the crime is minimized in court and the public is satisfied to believe that the child died painlessly.

The truth needs to be known, no matter the pain or discomfort it may cause. IMO

Through pain comes change

ITA:

At this point I don't believe there is anything that could shock us more..what needs to be done is let the sunshine in & the truth out.

It will all come out eventually. Yes, it is painful to the family & will continue to cause them pain but eventually there will probably be a trial & wounds ripped open when the truth is known.

Meanwhile the family will be left to imagine the unimagineable day upon day & night upon night. Am hoping that Lady Justice will be swift & sure.

[Details]

I am not so sure we could be anymore shocked..OK guess we might..I think she has read what they have and just listening on HLN the defense agreeing with a lot means there must be some good evidence..of course it is their job to represent her but I have a feeling we may not even want to know what was done to this child..jmoWe probably couldn't be any more shocked - maybe - but the general public, that doesn't follow cases like most on this forum do - they likely could be - and given that this is the jury pool, best to keep the details under wraps.

[omsk99]

"Sandra’s family sat on the opposite side of the room. The girl’s uncle and aunt, Joe and Angie Chavez, sat with Sandra’s grandparents, José and Dolores Chavez. Susan Levy joined them. Sandra’s father, Daniel Cantu, and her mother, Maria Chavez, were absent."

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2443601-Cantu+autopsy+to+remain+sealed+to+avoid+-outrage-&article-Cantu%20autopsy%20to%20remain%20sealed%20to%20avoi d%20-outrage-%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

"Huckaby’s demeanor in court today came as a stark contrast to her near-emotional breakdown at her first arraignment earlier this month. She smiled a few times at her public defender, Sam Behar. She stared calmly at the judge and at the dozens of reporters and the bailiffs who surrounded her during the brief hearing. She wore her hair down.

She sat calmly before the packed courtroom; her family sat behind her in the audience — father, Brian Lawless; grandmother, Connie Lawless; and aunt, Joni Hughes. "

:angry:

[juliekan]

*Thinking out loud here*

My dd is on Benadryl for this rash she's came down with. First dose today, made her nap for almost 2 hrs. Just gave another dose and by-golly, she's out again! Could Melissa possibly used something like that to make a child lethargic?

yes, and is easily accessible, but something like GHB also causes amnesia

[omsk99]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/24/BARH178FCT.DTL

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090424/A_NEWS/90424009

http://mystateline.com/content/fulltext/?cid=62042

Interesting how different reporters all noticed her "new demeanor"! Wonder what her PD has been telling her!

[meadowlark]

Breaking news per KCRA noon newscast:

FBI first went to the church in Clarkson, WA on Good Friday... the same day MH was arrested.

Also, talking to some parishioner(s) of the church in WA... the names "Clifford Lawless" or "Lane Lawless" were not familiar, but the name "Clifford Huckaby" did sound familiar.


just got back from town, trying to catch up here.

they first went to the church in WA same day melissa was arrested?

so if it was before they arrested her, and they arrested her at night after they had her in there questioning for some time. so did the fbi run up there because of something she said during the questioning that afternoon/evening BEFORE her actual arrest? or were they already up there at the WA church before she went to the police station?

if they were already up there before she started blabbing to them, then they had info about the WA church from someone besides melissa. So did they find something in the clover road church that got them looking into the WA church, or was it some "background" check on the grandfather that got them to looking into the WA church. or something they found in CLL mobile when it was searched?

something took them all the way up there.

as soon as I get caught up on the posts I will start "digging"

[oodi]

just got back from town, trying to catch up here.

they first went to the church in WA same day melissa was arrested?

so if it was before they arrested her, and they arrested her at night after they had her in there questioning for some time. so did the fbi run up there because of something she said during the questioning that afternoon/evening BEFORE her actual arrest? or were they already up there at the WA church before she went to the police station?

if they were already up there before she started blabbing to them, then they had info about the WA church from someone besides melissa. So did they find something in the clover road church that got them looking into the WA church, or was it some "background" check on the grandfather that got them to looking into the WA church. or something they found in CLL mobile when it was searched?

something took them all the way up there.

as soon as I get caught up on the posts I will start "digging"

Good questions. The report was done live via phone with the reporter. I'm hoping there will be more info on tonights newscasts.

[For Gabriel]

Poor man, maybe she thinks she has him charmed. I think she is an exhibitionist on top of everything else......thus she liked being seen as a SS teacher and decorating the classroom. She likes to be in the limelight and that is WHY she was so anxious to talk to the Tracy Press....it's a 'Look at me' attitude.
She won't plead guilty, she wants the show of a trial. She won't even mind being an usual prisoner....but she would mind the DP because that would end her performances.

I believe you have nailed her, Fox! ITA!

[tammym]

I don't do Scared Monkeys but did a search....

http://www.sacsheriff.com/inmate_information/inmate_details.cfm?a=396A8A230C2B861953E3C1CC17146 E94D5E017

But how do we know this Lawless is related to MelissaH?
Oh and what date was MH arrested?

Check out the amount of Bail...OMG

[Riverwalk!]

just got back from town, trying to catch up here.

they first went to the church in WA same day melissa was arrested?

so if it was before they arrested her, and they arrested her at night after they had her in there questioning for some time. so did the fbi run up there because of something she said during the questioning that afternoon/evening BEFORE her actual arrest? or were they already up there at the WA church before she went to the police station?

if they were already up there before she started blabbing to them, then they had info about the WA church from someone besides melissa. So did they find something in the clover road church that got them looking into the WA church, or was it some "background" check on the grandfather that got them to looking into the WA church. or something they found in CLL mobile when it was searched?

something took them all the way up there.

as soon as I get caught up on the posts I will start "digging"

There are two churches: 1) Clarkson, Washington
2) Warner Alliance Church, Idaho
http://www.ktvb.com/news/crime/stories/ktvbn-apr2409-lawless_investigation.1080551d5.html

[Riverwalk!]

I don't do Scared Monkeys but did a search....

http://www.sacsheriff.com/inmate_information/inmate_details.cfm?a=396A8A230C2B861953E3C1CC17146 E94D5E017

But how do we know this Lawless is related to MelissaH?
Oh and what date was MH arrested?

Check out the amount of Bail...OMG

Melissa drove herself to the police station on April 10th, Friday, around 6 pm. Arrested around 11 pm and booked on the 11th, Saturday, around 2:30 am.

[oodi]

I don't do Scared Monkeys but did a search....

http://www.sacsheriff.com/inmate_information/inmate_details.cfm?a=396A8A230C2B861953E3C1CC17146 E94D5E017

But how do we know this Lawless is related to MelissaH?
Oh and what date was MH arrested?

Check out the amount of Bail...OMG


We don't know that they are related... only that someone is claiming they are.

MH was arrested on April 10th... Good Friday.

[Riverwalk!]

Everyone bookmark this:

http://www.stocktoncourt.org/courts/media_notice.htm

[tammym]

Melissa drove herself to the police station on April 10th, Friday, around 6 pm. Arrested around 11 pm and booked on the 11th, Saturday, around 2:30 am.
TY...This guy uses Aliases to, so may not be connected, who
know in this case....whoever he is is in BIG trouble..

[tammym]

We don't know that they are related... only that someone is claiming they are.

MH was arrested on April 10th... Good Friday.
Thank you oodi!

[Riverwalk!]

TY...This guy uses Aliases to, so may not be connected, who
know in this case....whoever he is is in BIG trouble..

I don't know how Timothy J. Gomes (45) or Timothy J. Lawless is related. Wife seems to be Chona Gomes (35) aka Lawless aka Neasbitt.

[juliekan]

I don't know how Timothy J. Gomes (45) or Timothy J. Lawless is related. Wife seems to be Chona Gomes (35) aka Lawless aka Neasbitt.

from one of those "how many of me are there" sites

there are 69 Timothy Gomes in the US. There are 31 Timothy Lawless in the US :shrug:

[tammym]

I don't know how Timothy J. Gomes (45) or Timothy J. Lawless is related. Wife seems to be Chona Gomes (35) aka Lawless aka Neasbitt.
Well I guess we will just have to wait for conformation to see
IF they are related.

With MH making no plea again, I kinda wonder if she isn't
talking especially since the FBI went to the Washington
Church where allegations were made in the 80's. imo

[Riverwalk!]

from one of those "how many of me are there" sites

there are 69 Timothy Gomes in the US. There are 31 Timothy Lawless in the US :shrug:

No, it's a paid site I use. Look in Sacramento.

Brian Lawless (MH's dad) has a myspace. WILL NOT post it. Just search on myspace - Brian Lawless - California. Connie is on there and some kids. I looked there to see if Timothy was listed as a "friend". Nope.

I know nothing about Clifford Lane Lawless' brothers or if he has any.

[dinojen]

Well I guess we will just have to wait for conformation to see
IF they are related.

With MH making no plea again, I kinda wonder if she isn't
talking especially since the FBI went to the Washington
Church where allegations were made in the 80's. imo


The other major case in Tracy.. the Tortured Teen... the four defendants have been in and out of court since Dec. and just recently made a plea at least three of them did... the fourth is due in court on Tuesday the 28th... so it's not that unusual

JMO

[aproudmom]

I have one question why is this church in Washington not listed on the churches website they say it was mid 80's well in 81 he was in Tracy Clover Road Baptist Church how can you be a Pastor at 2 churches? I also added in some links. just trying to figure out why so many churches he did not stay at a church for long until Tracy and the dates kinda dont add up..:confused: and yes I am nosey..:wink:


Article about a wedding ceremony performed by Elder Lane Lawless. 1978
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=k60MAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mGMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6306,642377&dq=lane-lawless

The family goes to visit Easter Lawless and Ted Huckabee 1979
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=akcMAAAAIBAJ&sjid=bGMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3902,293651&dq=lane-lawless


1983 Obituary for Esther Lawless Catholic Step-mother of LL his father George L. passed away in 1969
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=5a4MAAAAIBAJ&sjid=i2MDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6532,1662523&dq=lane-lawless


No dates given-Beacon MBC of Redding and Grace MBC of Gardena
1975 mission work in Eureka
1978 Sovereign Grace MBC of Mountain View
1981 Clover Road Baptist Church
mid 80's First Church of God in Clarkston, Wash

mid-80's??? The current pastor of the Washington congregation, Bill Creutzberg, told the Sacramento station he was aware of an investigation into alleged child molestations at the church in the mid-80's when Lawless was the pastor

dino you still on need my Latte:tonguewag:

[meadowlark]

okay I am all caught up now...

I will go find out if timothy john lawless aka timothy gomez is related to melissa.


give me a few minutes or so.

I will post as soon as I find any connection or if I can't find one..

brb

[aproudmom]

The other major case in Tracy.. the Tortured Teen... the four defendants have been in and out of court since Dec. and just recently made a plea at least three of them did... the fourth is due in court on Tuesday the 28th... so it's not that unusual

JMO

It is very usual did one not plea out the coach? but ITA in cases like these that is normal.

[Riverwalk!]

okay I am all caught up now...

I will go find out if timothy john lawless aka timothy gomez is related to melissa.


give me a few minutes or so.

I will post as soon as I find any connection or if I can't find one..

brb

NOTE: The NAME is GOMES.

[aproudmom]

okay I am all caught up now...

I will go find out if timothy john lawless aka timothy gomez is related to melissa.


give me a few minutes or so.

I will post as soon as I find any connection or if I can't find one..

brb

k hurry back lark..

[dinojen]

It is very usual did one not plea out the coach? but ITA in cases like these that is normal.

All plead not guilty :rolleyes: except for Schumacher the male.. they all are to appear in court again on Tuesday.. I'll remind you...

No more latte's till tomorrow morning Missy, your cut off, you'll be up all night.. lol:tonguewag:

We'll do latte's and pastry in the morning .. going to be doing some googling.. you know who has to work all day.. that would be hubby not me thank god...I can google my brains out..:wink:

[aproudmom]

No, it's a paid site I use. Look in Sacramento.

Brian Lawless (MH's dad) has a myspace. WILL NOT post it. Just search on myspace - Brian Lawless - California. Connie is on there and some kids. I looked there to see if Timothy was listed as a "friend". Nope.

I know nothing about Clifford Lane Lawless' brothers or if he has any.

he has 1 bother

[aproudmom]

All plead not guilty :rolleyes: except for Schumacher the male.. they all are to appear in court again on Tuesday.. I'll remind you...

No more latte's till tomorrow morning Missy, your cut off, you'll be up all night.. lol:tonguewag:

We'll do latte's and pastry in the morning .. going to be doing some googling.. you know who has to work all day.. that would be hubby not me thank god...I can google my brains out..:wink:

ok I will wait thanks..lol.I have googled my brain away already..

[juliekan]

he has 1 bother

funny that's what my sister called me!

I wish I was better at this search stuff...appreciate all of you that have the "power" to do it.

[aproudmom]

No, it's a paid site I use. Look in Sacramento.

Brian Lawless (MH's dad) has a myspace. WILL NOT post it. Just search on myspace - Brian Lawless - California. Connie is on there and some kids. I looked there to see if Timothy was listed as a "friend". Nope.

I know nothing about Clifford Lane Lawless' brothers or if he has any.

George Lawless, was married to Jessie Dicus and they had 2 sons and lived in Brewster WA

Obituary for Esther Lawless step-mother
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=5a4MAAAAIBAJ&sjid=i2MDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6532,1662523&dq=lane-lawless

[MoonFlwr]

Got me... she did just get this case on Monday or Tuesday...

Either way it's a horrible crime.. not sure I would take her comment as being worse than we already think it is... but that's jmo.

Yeah, I think you may be right.
Her choice of words is unfortunate though, because it immediately engendered thoughts of unspeakable actions in my mind (and in other peoples' minds, too, probably).
This could lead to even more public outcry than the truth may have caused!

[aproudmom]

funny that's what my sister called me!

I wish I was better at this search stuff...appreciate all of you that have the "power" to do it.

I get to nosey...lol..lark got me thinking last night and have been googling away since..

[jammies]

funny that's what my sister called me!

I wish I was better at this search stuff...appreciate all of you that have the "power" to do it.


Me too, Julie. I usually just sit back and read. Amazing what these posters find!

[jammies]

I get to nosey...lol..lark got me thinking last night and have been googling away since..


Lark askeered us last night, mom! I'm telling ya I ran upstairs to bed and pulled the covers over my head!

[dinojen]

STOCKTON — Results of autopsy and toxicology reports on slain 8-year-old Sandra Cantu could so infuriate the public that a judge asked them to remain sealed.

To release the reports would risk “a danger of public outrage” and threaten the Cantu family’s privacy, said San Joaquin County Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus at an arraignment today for suspected murder-rapist 28-year-old Melissa Chantel Huckaby.

Huckaby entered no pleas.

“There is no doubt that the public considers the rape and murder of a child a heinous crime,” said Lofthus, who issued a gag order Tuesday. To seal all the documents related to the case will ensure a fair trial for both sides, she continued.

The defense dropped its request to exhume the little girl’s body.

Prosecutor Thomas Testa said both sides need about a month to review findings, which includes nearly 500 pages of written evidence and some audio recordings, he said. Lofthus ordered Huckaby back in court at 1 p.m. May 22 in Dept. 14 for further arraignment.

Huckaby’s demeanor in court today came as a stark contrast to her near-emotional breakdown at her first arraignment earlier this month. She smiled a few times at her public defender, Sam Behar. She stared calmly at the judge and at the dozens of reporters and the bailiffs who surrounded her during the brief hearing. She wore her hair down.

She sat calmly before the packed courtroom; her family sat behind her in the audience — father, Brian Lawless; grandmother, Connie Lawless; and aunt, Joni Hughes.

Sandra’s family sat on the opposite side of the room. The girl’s uncle and aunt, Joe and Angie Chavez, sat with Sandra’s grandparents, José and Dolores Chavez. Susan Levy joined them. Sandra’s father, Daniel Cantu, and her mother, Maria Chavez, were absent.

Reporters crowded the courtroom. The judge banned all cameras and audio recorders, so photographers waited outside. The media attention has been overwhelming for everyone involved, the judge said.

“This is the kind of case that we’ve never experienced in San Joaquin County,” Lofthus said.




What about Lacy Peterson.. granted the venue got changed.. but Lacy was from Modesto.. that's San Joaquin County...

Have a feeling this case isn't getting moved.. she's going to be the judge and I think she will do great... JMHO

http://tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2443601-Cantu+autopsy+to+remain+sealed+to+avoid+-outrage-&article-Cantu%20autopsy%20to%20remain%20sealed%20to%20avoi d%20-outrage-%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

[aproudmom]

Oh i think the prosecution has convincing evidence about rape with a foreign object. Either it was confessed, or more likely, the foreign object was left in place either in sandra's vagina or anus.
It is not a charge they would come up with based on little evidence in this case. If it was a registered sex offender maybe, but the rape probably didn't even occur to them until either there was actual evidence or a confession.

As far as dying accidentally, well i guess it depends what you call an accident. Most murderers say it was an accident. IMO

far as removing the gag order, i hope they do and i understand why they want to. There are so many crazy rumors going around that they can't comment on because of it, including ones that must scare the parents in the area - such as she wasn't alone etc. They can't even come out and say again that there is no other suspect, she did it alone and parents don't need to be afraid another killer of Sandra's is walking around.

IMO

my bolding
OMG VC2 I try to not even go there actually every time I hear that about a object it makes me ill..I do hope they got evidence but sure hope they did not get it that way I would much rather hear a confession..that is to sad:crying:

[aproudmom]

Lark askeered us last night, mom! I'm telling ya I ran upstairs to bed and pulled the covers over my head!

heck I was afraid to shut my eyes after that one..lol..

[MoonFlwr]

You bet,Juliekan:

SANDRA CANTU CASE: SOURCES- LAWLESS RELATIVE ARRESTED ON SEX CHARGES

BREAKING NEWS

Folsom, CA– As Melissa Huckaby awaits her arraignment in court this afternoon in San Joaquin County, Blinkoncrime.com has discovered the arrest last week of Timothy John Lawless, a relative to Huckaby and the Lawless family. Folsom Police Department verified this afternoon Lawless was arrested on April 15.

Read the rest at Blink on Crime:

Thanks for the link, foxglove! :)

I don't see more than that snippet of a sentence: 'a relative of Huckaby' about whether he was related to MH or not.

I wonder if this is verified.

[juliekan]

Thanks for the link, foxglove! :)

I don't see more than that snippet of a sentence: 'a relative of Huckaby' about whether he was related to MH or not.

I wonder if this is verified.

Not verified....but some on here are trying to find out now.:thumbup:

[MoonFlwr]

I believe you have nailed her, Fox! ITA!

Ditto! ....

[aproudmom]

Me too, Julie. I usually just sit back and read. Amazing what these posters find!

I can not even tell you how many searches I have done at this time I have 7 browsers open..:biggrin:..and then I go to a lot of media sites and the locals post on there and then I also like to look into ancestry so yeah I am a little obsessed or nosey..thank goodness for that google bar..lol

oh and when you do the searches for whatever I also find a lot on myspace blogs..don't post them just look at the links..there are several on here that are wonderful they will dig until they can find what they are looking for..

[For Gabriel]

I have one question why is this church in Washington not listed on the churches website they say it was mid 80's well in 81 he was in Tracy Clover Road Baptist Church how can you be a Pastor at 2 churches? I also added in some links. just trying to figure out why so many churches he did not stay at a church for long until Tracy and the dates kinda dont add up..:confused: and yes I am nosey..:wink:


Article about a wedding ceremony performed by Elder Lane Lawless. 1978
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=k60MAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mGMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6306,642377&dq=lane-lawless

The family goes to visit Easter Lawless and Ted Huckabee 1979
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=akcMAAAAIBAJ&sjid=bGMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3902,293651&dq=lane-lawless


1983 Obituary for Esther Lawless Catholic Step-mother of LL his father George L. passed away in 1969
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=5a4MAAAAIBAJ&sjid=i2MDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6532,1662523&dq=lane-lawless


No dates given-Beacon MBC of Redding and Grace MBC of Gardena
1975 mission work in Eureka
1978 Sovereign Grace MBC of Mountain View
1981 Clover Road Baptist Church
mid 80's First Church of God in Clarkston, Wash

mid-80's??? The current pastor of the Washington congregation, Bill Creutzberg, told the Sacramento station he was aware of an investigation into alleged child molestations at the church in the mid-80's when Lawless was the pastor

dino you still on need my Latte:tonguewag:

Notice some Huckabee's were in attendance?

[oodi]

OK... here's the latest:

For those local, watch KCRA news at 6pm.

MH's family speaks, and more info on the investigation on the church in WA. They also said it appears that MH's grandmother may have been at home around the time SC disappeared.

[doctor_J]

I agree GentleBreeze, because in Cal when they pull you over to get a headlamp repaired or ANYTHING, they run a quick check on you....They could see in a flash that MH had falsely accused a policeman of rape, was a person of interest in TWO arson cases, was involved in THREE thefts AND accused of taking a child sans permission and yet, she got a free ride.

Bad work.
I don't think so. The only thing showing up on a criminal background check on MH would have been her convictions, and only for a limited period, in my state (not Ca.) it is 6 years. All she would show is 2 (or was it 3) shoplifting convictions. They had to compare this to the cackground check of a drug addict who had a child permanantly removed (chances are she had a long rap sheet of drug convictions). The accusations against the policeman wound not show up since MH was not charged with false reporting. The arson would not show up since someone else was convicted of that crime.

So they had to compare a crug addict with a long hx. of crime (drug user) with a shoplifting Sunday school teacher who lived with a local pastor as her GF. IT was a reasonable assumption that the Polk lady was the liar of the two, esp, since they searched her home and something they saw in it's condition led the office the think she was on crank.

[aproudmom]

Poor man, maybe she thinks she has him charmed. I think she is an exhibitionist on top of everything else......thus she liked being seen as a SS teacher and decorating the classroom. She likes to be in the limelight and that is WHY she was so anxious to talk to the Tracy Press....it's a 'Look at me' attitude.
She won't plead guilty, she wants the show of a trial. She won't even mind being an usual prisoner....but she would mind the DP because that would end her performances.

:scared:O no that sounds like Monster-Mom CA she loves to smile at her bozo Lawyer..when I heard MH talking she sounded just like CA so calm and normal you would never think anyone could do things like this and then be so charming..she really had the media going didnt she..loved the attention..IMO

[aproudmom]

I don't think so. The only thing showing up on a criminal background check on MH would have been her convictions, and only for a limited period, in my state (not Ca.) it is 6 years. All she would show is 2 (or was it 3) shoplifting convictions. They had to compare this to the cackground check of a drug addict who had a child permanantly removed (chances are she had a long rap sheet of drug convictions). The accusations against the policeman wound not show up since MH was not charged with false reporting. The arson would not show up since someone else was convicted of that crime.

So they had to compare a crug addict with a long hx. of crime (drug user) with a shoplifting Sunday school teacher who lived with a local pastor as her GF. IT was a reasonable assumption that the Polk lady was the liar of the two, esp, since they searched her home and something they saw in it's condition led the office the think she was on crank.

I thought they dropped the charges on her ex roommate..IMO they should have looked into MH or the owner when the second fire started and this girl was sitting in jail...did a neighbor not say they had to beat the door down to get her out of there?

[oodi]

I don't think so. The only thing showing up on a criminal background check on MH would have been her convictions, and only for a limited period, in my state (not Ca.) it is 6 years. All she would show is 2 (or was it 3) shoplifting convictions. They had to compare this to the cackground check of a drug addict who had a child permanantly removed (chances are she had a long rap sheet of drug convictions). The accusations against the policeman wound not show up since MH was not charged with false reporting. The arson would not show up since someone else was convicted of that crime.

So they had to compare a crug addict with a long hx. of crime (drug user) with a shoplifting Sunday school teacher who lived with a local pastor as her GF. IT was a reasonable assumption that the Polk lady was the liar of the two, esp, since they searched her home and something they saw in it's condition led the office the think she was on crank.

ITA!! Add the fact that Polk also has an 18 yr old and a 22 yr old. LE may have thought it possible that older kids had the drugs and that the little girl got hold of them some how.

And... Lora Polk had a child removed from her in 1994. She has never seen that child again. I would hazzard to guess that the child was removed because of her history of drug abuse.

[oodi]

I think it's been published many times that Connie was in the Lawless' trailer when Sandra disappeared from the park. She was the one who located Melissa's lost keys and cell phone shortly after Melissa left for the church, using her spare car key - and it was Connie who called Melissa at the church to tell her her keys and cell phone had been located in the trailer during the hour in question when Melissa was at the church and Sandra first went missing. I think it's been fairly well-established all along that Connie was there.

That's what I thought, but they made it sound like it was new info, so I was passing it on so those that are local can watch.

[aproudmom]

OK... here's the latest:

For those local, watch KCRA news at 6pm.

MH's family speaks, and more info on the investigation on the church in WA. They also said it appears that MH's grandmother may have been at home around the time SC disappeared.

o man I wish I was local..OK wait they are speaking so who is the gag order against..if they bring her past in would her family not be brought in at trial?? and yes she was home not sure if Sandra's sister was babysitting or not have never heard if it was true one thing I know we have not heard is where was her GP and I have wondered if this happened at the church and later she dumped her body..since some say she was only gone a hour..anyone know if the grandparents were at home the whole time and why would she stay at the church if she did not have her luggage that was stolen..I always thought if she had drove by Sandras home they would have her KIA on camera but then I saw she could have went down the other way..I do not think she did all this in one hour JMO

[oodi]

They're also acting like this WA church is new news - in fact, the investigation of that church was done weeks ago, before Melissa was arrested. Hmm.

The FBI was there asking questions 2 weeks ago... on the very day MH was arrested.

[For Gabriel]

Is Melissa a "Huckabee" or "Huckaby" did the family change the spelling years ago? *Wondering aloud*

[aproudmom]

They're also acting like this WA church is new news - in fact, the investigation of that church was done weeks ago, before Melissa was arrested. Hmm.

But we never heard about this before did we? so IMO it would be new news..if they explain why it was searched and if he indeed was he the Pastor there at some point since he had been in Tracy since 81 and they say this was in the mid 80's..and it is not listed anywhere on his church website..so I am kinda curious as to what they have to say..

[oodi]

o man I wish I was local..OK wait they are speaking so who is the gag order against..if they bring her past in would her family not be brought in at trial?? and yes she was home not sure if Sandra's sister was babysitting or not have never heard if it was true one thing I know we have not heard is where was her GP and I have wondered if this happened at the church and later she dumped her body..since some say she was only gone a hour..anyone know if the grandparents were at home the whole time and why would she stay at the church if she did not have her luggage that was stolen..I always thought if she had drove by Sandras home they would have her KIA on camera but then I saw she could have went down the other way..I do not think she did all this in one hour JMO

I dunno, mom... I'll have to wait for the 6pm news to find out what they say.

[oodi]

Is Melissa a "Huckabee" or "Huckaby" did the family change the spelling years ago? *Wondering aloud*

It's Huckaby. I haven't heard anything about whether or not her ex-husbands family changed the spelling at any point in time.

[aproudmom]

omg anyone watching NG it is not about this case but the Anthony's a lot of people on here and other forums did a mass email to a organization were they was suppose to speak and Marc Klass is very angry about it..he said they had to cancel them because of security reasons..I even saw the letter he wrote to the Mod on WS..sorry O/T but just heard him talking about all the people sending emails from the forums was the reason..I did not do it..was not worth my time..plus I am to busy googling..lol..

[oodi]

Since they were investigating Lane Lawless, I'm not surprised they investigated another church he was associated with. I have deep respect for this LE - they did a VERY thorough job, and kept their lips buttoned. It is no secret that Lane Lawless came under their microscope - so it kind of follows that they went to his prior church.

What bugs me is it in some of the news stories, you're deep into the story before they admit this is old news, and not a new investigation. : (

I thought the church in WA was a different denomination from the Baptist churches. :confused:

[aproudmom]

Is Melissa a "Huckabee" or "Huckaby" did the family change the spelling years ago? *Wondering aloud*

does no one read my wonderful post??lol no he knows someone by the name of Ted Huckabee no relations he married someone years ago and they are listed as guest

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=k60MAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mGMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6306,642377&dq=lane-lawless

[aproudmom]

I thought the church in WA was a different denomination from the Baptist churches. :confused:

not sure about that one..unless it changed since he was there..

[tammym]

I have tried to do a search under Clarkston Wash..Asotin County to see if any Timothy Lawless/Gomes ever
arrested there but I can't even find jail info there.
Just curious if he had any connection in Wash.

My searching skills leave alot to be desired.

Props to you guys who are good at it..lol

[Leanne Weich]

The evidence will come out if there is a trial. Since a courtroom is public the media will be allowed to attend and then report on what was testified to like they did today.

Now if she goes ahead a pleas we won't know much. The Judge will just most likely ask her is she guilty of each charge and she will say "yes" (if she pleas).

I do think she is contemplating pleading guilty to the charges rather than expose to the world what she did to Sandra.

imo

I haven't read to the end of the thread yet so hope this ? is not redundant. If so, sorry and please just ignore.

If MH pleads guilty, wont a condition of the plea be that she allocutes to the crime?

[For Gabriel]

does no one read my wonderful post??lol no he knows someone by the name of Ted Huckabee no relations he married someone years ago and they are listed as guest

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=k60MAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mGMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6306,642377&dq=lane-lawless

I read it sweetie! Thus my question of a possible name change.

[GentleBreeze]

I haven't read to the end of the thread yet so hope this ? is not redundant. If so, sorry and please just ignore.

If MH pleads guilty, wont a condition of the plea be that she allocutes to the crime?

Hi Leanne, that is usually up to the Judge and what is typical in that jurisdiction.

I have seen some plea and they just affirm that they are guilty of the charges (whatever the plea winds up being) and then in other cases like BTK he gave an in depth confession publicly but I don't know if that was mandatory or if he was just so damned proud of his sick self that he wanted everyone to know.

But with most pleas very little is ever known. Sometimes that can be a factor why they plea so certain evidence is never revealed.

imo

[meadowlark]

supposedly

The Folsom Police Department is saying it is a rumor timothy john lawless is related to Melissa.

I am trying to find the news this came out in that started all this.
brb

I have dug up everything in the world I can find on the lawless family and it is a LOT.

george lawless the father had 2 sons

clifford lane lawless and Paul Lawless.

he divorced their mother and married their step mother, I don't find any other children for george. so that leaves george with two sons who carry the lawless name.... being... clifford lane lawless and paul lawless who is last I found listed in beltsville, MD

so we know who all the sons are of clifford lane and connie lawless. and they can't be timothy and they are to young to have timothy as a son.

so the only other way they can be related is through the brother of clifford lane lawless; Paul Lawless. So now to find out who his sons are. give me a minute and I will look.

now it is possible timothy comes down through the brother of George, but making a son of the son of georges brother to be the the 3rd cousin of melissa. but being paul is back in MD, then timothy ends up in folsom. could be, let me try to see. but then I would have to go clear back and find any brothers of george and then come down the line 3 generations for each brother george might have had. haha.

anything past that is going to be so separated to the nth degree they probably don't know one another anyway.

being the folsom police are saying timothy is not related to melissa, then most likely he is not? but who knows? do the police even know what this family is all about? I really doubt it. I think they might be figuring it out though.

btw, while looking up all this stuff I ran into a ton of info on this family and still looking, something I needed to do a long time ago but did not have time, so I am doing it now and will get it all posted soon

let me go check folsom and find out how timothy is a lawless

[oodi]

Here's a summary of what KCRA said on the 6pm news:

CLL was never the primary focus of the FBI investigation of the church in Clarkston, WA.

The FBI was more interested in the prior pastor of the church, Dale Johnson, who may be known by CLL.

There is no record that CLL ever regularly attended the church in Clarkston, WA.

As for any comments from MH's family... another comment by her maternal uncle that this was totally out of character for MH.

[Themis]

STOCKTON — Results of autopsy and toxicology reports on slain 8-year-old Sandra Cantu could so infuriate the public that a judge asked them to remain sealed.

To release the reports would risk “a danger of public outrage” and threaten the Cantu family’s privacy, said San Joaquin County Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus at an arraignment today for suspected murder-rapist 28-year-old Melissa Chantel Huckaby.

Huckaby entered no pleas.

“There is no doubt that the public considers the rape and murder of a child a heinous crime,” said Lofthus, who issued a gag order Tuesday. To seal all the documents related to the case will ensure a fair trial for both sides, she continued.

The defense dropped its request to exhume the little girl’s body.

Prosecutor Thomas Testa said both sides need about a month to review findings, which includes nearly 500 pages of written evidence and some audio recordings, he said. Lofthus ordered Huckaby back in court at 1 p.m. May 22 in Dept. 14 for further arraignment.

Huckaby’s demeanor in court today came as a stark contrast to her near-emotional breakdown at her first arraignment earlier this month. She smiled a few times at her public defender, Sam Behar. She stared calmly at the judge and at the dozens of reporters and the bailiffs who surrounded her during the brief hearing. She wore her hair down.

She sat calmly before the packed courtroom; her family sat behind her in the audience — father, Brian Lawless; grandmother, Connie Lawless; and aunt, Joni Hughes.

Sandra’s family sat on the opposite side of the room. The girl’s uncle and aunt, Joe and Angie Chavez, sat with Sandra’s grandparents, José and Dolores Chavez. Susan Levy joined them. Sandra’s father, Daniel Cantu, and her mother, Maria Chavez, were absent.

Reporters crowded the courtroom. The judge banned all cameras and audio recorders, so photographers waited outside. The media attention has been overwhelming for everyone involved, the judge said.

“This is the kind of case that we’ve never experienced in San Joaquin County,” Lofthus said.




What about Lacy Peterson.. granted the venue got changed.. but Lacy was from Modesto.. that's San Joaquin County...

Have a feeling this case isn't getting moved.. she's going to be the judge and I think she will do great... JMHO

http://tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2443601-Cantu+autopsy+to+remain+sealed+to+avoid+-outrage-&article-Cantu%20autopsy%20to%20remain%20sealed%20to%20avoi d%20-outrage-%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&
Excuse me, Dinojen but I need to make a correction about info in your post. Easy to get them confused.:smile:

Lacy Peterson, Modesto. Modesto is in Stanislaus County -- not San Joaquin. In fact, Modesto is the county seat of Stanislaus County.

Both Tracy and Stockton are in San Joaquin County. Stockton is the county seat of San Joaquin County.

San Joaquin County and Stanislaus County border one another.

Below is a link to the counties in California so everyone can see and understand the geographical locations.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ca_map_counties.html

[JMO * Themis]

[meadowlark]

Here's a summary of what KCRA said on the 6pm news:

CLL was never the primary focus of the FBI investigation of the church in Clarkston, WA.

The FBI was more interested in the prior pastor of the church, Dale Johnson, who may be known by CLL.

There is no record that CLL ever regularly attended the church in Clarkston, WA.

As for any comments from MH's family... another comment by her maternal uncle that this was totally out of character for MH.

the people on the video worried about their security was cid and bob JOHNSON, maybe that is why they were worried, it might be their relative and they did not want all of that brought up?

[tammym]

Here's a summary of what KCRA said on the 6pm news:

CLL was never the primary focus of the FBI investigation of the church in Clarkston, WA.

The FBI was more interested in the prior pastor of the church, Dale Johnson, who may be known by CLL.

There is no record that CLL ever regularly attended the church in Clarkston, WA.

As for any comments from MH's family... another comment by her maternal uncle that this was totally out of character for MH.
I am confused now...In this link it states Lawless was the Pastor, which Lawless was the Pastor?

The current pastor of the Washington congregation, Bill Creutzberg, told the Sacramento station he was aware of an investigation into alleged child molestations at the church in the mid-80's when Lawless was the pastor. Officials say Lawless was never arrested or charged in connection with the allegations.

http://www.kron.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1182/reftab/36/t/FBI-Visits-Washington-State-Church-Where-Huckaby-s-Grandfather-Was-Once-the-Pastor/Default.aspx

[GentleBreeze]

Here's a summary of what KCRA said on the 6pm news:

CLL was never the primary focus of the FBI investigation of the church in Clarkston, WA.

The FBI was more interested in the prior pastor of the church, Dale Johnson, who may be known by CLL.

There is no record that CLL ever regularly attended the church in Clarkston, WA.

As for any comments from MH's family... another comment by her maternal uncle that this was totally out of character for MH.

Thank you.

Well with all these things being said that have been trying to imply Pastor Lawless was the one they were honing in on has to be breaking this old man down. One can only take just so much and he is already not in good health. If he is guilty of nothing but just being unfortunate to have a POS granddaughter, then I truly feel very sorry for him. If he has done nothing wrong then MH has taken him right down with her.

imo

[tammym]

Thanks Meadowlark for all your research. :smile:

[GentleBreeze]

I am confused now...In this link it states Lawless was the Pastor, which Lawless was the Pastor?

The current pastor of the Washington congregation, Bill Creutzberg, told the Sacramento station he was aware of an investigation into alleged child molestations at the church in the mid-80's when Lawless was the pastor. Officials say Lawless was never arrested or charged in connection with the allegations.

http://www.kron.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1182/reftab/36/t/FBI-Visits-Washington-State-Church-Where-Huckaby-s-Grandfather-Was-Once-the-Pastor/Default.aspx

It never did make sense. Pastor Lawless has been the Pastor in Tracy since 1981.

imo

[oodi]

I am confused now...In this link it states Lawless was the Pastor, which Lawless was the Pastor?

The current pastor of the Washington congregation, Bill Creutzberg, told the Sacramento station he was aware of an investigation into alleged child molestations at the church in the mid-80's when Lawless was the pastor. Officials say Lawless was never arrested or charged in connection with the allegations.

http://www.kron.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1182/reftab/36/t/FBI-Visits-Washington-State-Church-Where-Huckaby-s-Grandfather-Was-Once-the-Pastor/Default.aspx

There's been incorrect info on the KRON site before, so personally, I'm more inclined to believe what KCRA says. JMO

[tammym]

It never did make sense. Pastor Lawless has been the Pastor in Tracy since 1981.

imo
TY There used to be a day where the media actually
checked thier facts before reporting, guess it's more
important to just put anything out now, not all media
but some imo.

[meadowlark]

well the address timother lawless is listed at in folsom does not show him listed with anyone else there.

there are what looks like several households at that same address but on google map it looks like one big building with a blue bus, so might be a church?

also listed as associated to this address of timothy lawless is:
GOLD RUSH CHURCH OF CHRIST

and along with the people listed as associated with that church are people also listed at Yakima Washington and lakebay washington.

so was he living at a church with a bunch of other people?

let me go look up this church

[GentleBreeze]

There's been incorrect info on the KRON site before, so personally, I'm more inclined to believe what KCRA says. JMO

I agree and last night they weren't wording it this way.....

"Officials say Lawless was never arrested or charged in connection with the allegations."

They said.....

LE said they had no records of any abuse allegation made against Pastor Lawless. (paraphrasing)

[meadowlark]

Lawless, Timothy - (M/W) - Age 44 Map It
108 Monowood Dr
Folsom, CA 95630-2718 Verified Address

Reported: 04/15/2009 by Arrest Reporter No. 7205
Source: Folsom PD

F PC289(J) Rape By For. Obj.: (V) Under 14

Bail Amount:
Residing in Arrest Zone: Fair Oaks, Folsom & Roseville
Arrest Report No. 3768894