District Attorney watch II thru 10/13

[Serendipitous1]

Seems like a good time to resurrect this thread. The original thread (closed a month ago) can be found here (http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=349546). Other relevant posts are spread throughout later threads and can best be accessed by using the search function.

After the fourth anniversary articles published in the CDT, the candidates for district attorney have all now spoken out (http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2009/04/17/candidates_vow_to_find_missing.aspx) on the matter of the Ray Gricar investigation going forward.

[Politigal]

Some had thought that Gricar's case wouldn't be one of the major points in the candidates platforms.

Glad to see that in fact he is. Apparently, they *do* realize how important it is to solve this case.

:thumbup:

[Politigal]

Interesting to me that JKA says that she would question all law enforcement "past & present" who worked on the case....so I guess that includes Dixon.

[gstickley]

Interesting to me that JKA says that she would question all law enforcement "past & present" who worked on the case....so I guess that includes Dixon.

And DZ, of course.

[2-B]

Thanks for bringing us the link, S1. And thanks to the Collegian for being on top of things.

[J. J. in Phila]

Some had thought that Gricar's case wouldn't be one of the major points in the candidates platforms.

Glad to see that in fact he is. Apparently, they *do* realize how important it is to solve this case.

:thumbup:

Ity isn't. Madeira's answer was the most detailed. Nobody said anything substantial.

It's a political hot potato and Madiera's wearing oven mitts.

[gstickley]

MM's response was more of the same; the only thing new was what he felt when he heard that RG had disappeared. Detailed . . . I think not!

[2-B]

Nobody said anything substantial.


It's a short article in a student newspaper. It would be naive to think all of the candidates could lay out fully detailed proposals for their plans to handle the Gricar case upon their election in such a venue. And it's likely the reporter condensed material from some or all of the candidates to fit allotted space.

I disagree there's nothing substantial from anyone. KA's promise to question all law enforcement past and present is substantial, IMO. TdB's idea regarding what's more or less a cold case squad of retired law enforcement personnel to provide a set of "new eyes" is substantial, IMO.

As for anything MM said, it was nothing but the same old, same old, IMO, and not anything I see as substantial.

[Serendipitous1]

On another thread I posted my thoughts on the CDT vs. The Daily Collegian. I definitely think there is a reason why the latter has scooped the former these past two days. It seems even MM did not appreciate the negative reaction to SG's articles.

I thought it was quite appropriate for the Democratic candidates to chime in at this particular time...because of the political overtones in LE's press release. MM, SW and MR have all spent a considerable amount of energy lately trying to 'schmooz' over the gaffe. But the damage has been done...and the Dems should not let the top LE officer in the county off the hook.

In today's Collegian article, MM again said that no new resources are being applied to the investigation because there are no new credible leads. There are those of us who believe MM is responsible for that, on both counts, and that Tuesday's press release is a clear indication of why.

As tG posted, "walkaway = public scorn and outrage (see: Bride, Runaway)." So then what does the public think now? Here are the results of one poll (http://wearecentralpa.com/content/poll/?poll_id=2661), post-gaffe. There were 570 votes cast in what appears to have been a 1-day poll, and more than 58% think Gricar ran away.

[day2day]

And DZ, of course.

And good old DZ-wouldnt ya love to be a fly on the wall when that happened!! lol!!:tonguewag:

[gstickley]

And good old DZ-wouldnt ya love to be a fly on the wall when that happened!! lol!!:tonguewag:

What I wouldn't give to be the stenographer when that happened!!! I'm thinking about hiring myself out to the new DA. I'd work for free! Heck, I'd pay to do it!!!! :tonguewag:

[Politigal]

On another thread I posted my thoughts on the CDT vs. The Daily Collegian. I definitely think there is a reason why the latter has scooped the former these past two days. It seems even MM did not appreciate the negative reaction to SG's articles.

I thought it was quite appropriate for the Democratic candidates to chime in at this particular time...because of the political overtones in LE's press release. MM, SW and MR have all spent a considerable amount of energy lately trying to 'schmooz' over the gaffe. But the damage has been done...and the Dems should not let the top LE officer in the county off the hook.

In today's Collegian article, MM again said that no new resources are being applied to the investigation because there are no new credible leads. There are those of us who believe MM is responsible for that, on both counts, and that Tuesday's press release is a clear indication of why.

As tG posted, "walkaway = public scorn and outrage (see: Bride, Runaway)." So then what does the public think now? Here are the results of one poll (http://wearecentralpa.com/content/poll/?poll_id=2661), post-gaffe. There were 570 votes cast in what appears to have been a 1-day poll, and more than 58% think Gricar ran away.

that outcome was obviously their objective with the news release

IMO

[Politigal]

And good old DZ-wouldnt ya love to be a fly on the wall when that happened!! lol!!:tonguewag:

definitely....and I'd like to know if there's more to him being taken off the case...if it was due to him making the foul play/homicide likelihood statements.

[2-B]

"I'll call a grand jury."

"I'll ask the State AG's Office to investigate."

Both short answers.



These are your plans. Maybe they are not the plans of the candidates.

And I can see reasons they would not necessarily be so.

The AG's office has already outlined its reasons for refusal to take over the investigation.

A grand jury could result in a no-true bill and wind up dead-ending the case with a crashing halt.

Don't assume the candidates' failure to respond with your answers represents a failure to have plans.

[day2day]

What I wouldn't give to be the stenographer when that happened!!! I'm thinking about hiring myself out to the new DA. I'd work for free! Heck, I'd pay to do it!!!! :tonguewag:

LOL-you would have to stand in line!! I think most of us here would do it for free!! Maybe they should just let US interview him!

[day2day]

definitely....and I'd like to know if there's more to him being taken off the case...if it was due to him making the foul play/homicide likelihood statements.


I agree with you PGal!! I think theres soooo much info that we havent been told! It really makes me mad to think that they witheld so much-(or they are creating new evidence). Either way its unfair to Mr. Gricar's family and those her who want the truth!

[J. J. in Phila]

These are your plans. Maybe they are not the plans of the candidates.

And I can see reasons they would not necessarily be so.

The AG's office has already outlined its reasons for refusal to take over the investigation.


Actually, those were Bob Buehner's plans. :)

No, MM stated why he couldn't ask the AG's office to take the case. He had enough resources. Then six months later he ask the county for another detective and said having more resources might have helped with the Gricar case.


A grand jury could result in a no-true bill and wind up dead-ending the case with a crashing halt.


As opposed to the speeding case we see now? Let's face it, the grand jury might reach a conclusion you don't like, but that might be the correct conclusion.

You just said that you want the case investigated, but you don't want the case investigated.



Don't assume the candidates' failure to respond with your answers represents a failure to have plans.

Reviewing the case isn't really much of a plan. I guess you think I'm Bob Buehner now, since you think those were my plans.

[J. J. in Phila]

BTW, my last post just illustrated the political dilemma MM just put the three Democrats in.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by J.J. in Phila
Then six months later he ask the county for another detective and said having more resources might have helped with the Gricar case.

just another perplexing contradiction from Madeira

[2-B]

I guess you think I'm Bob Buehner now, since you think those were my plans.

I can fully distinguish between you and BB. I can also fully distinguish between you, BB, and the three Democratic candidates for DA.

And I can distinguish how frequently what goes into print is truncated (and, as we've so often seen in this case, how often it is slanted, re-shaped, misquoted, taken out of context, etc.).

I applaud the Collegian for bringing us some news of what the candidates have to say on the Gricar case.

It's naive and unfair to criticize any of the three Democratic candidates for failure to lay out specific plans based on one short article in a college newspaper. Other venues will allow them greater opportunities to detail what they would do. And quite frankly, you have no idea what the reporter asked each, what each responded, and what the reporter may have deleted from responses that each gave. (MM does not get a pass, IMO; he has had years to demonstrate what he would do with the case and for Ray Gricar.) Look no further than what SG's articles have done to TG's comments if you don't understand what I am saying. Even if a reporter isn't slanting information, he/she still makes editorial decisions and usually selects precious little from any interview to include in any article.

[J. J. in Phila]

just another perplexing contradiction from Madeira


Or, he knows the answer.

[Politigal]

that's just crazy...Madeira doesn't know the answer.

Why would Madeira sit on the "answer" ???

Especially after they've been commenting thru the years that they're still investigating, and that as more time passes that it looks more like foul play/homicide????

[J. J. in Phila]

that's just crazy...Madeira doesn't know the answer.

Why would Madeira sit on the "answer" ???

Especially after they've been commenting thru the years that they're still investigating, and that as more time passes that it looks more like foul play/homicide????

Wrong again. It's timing. He announces it over the summer and runs as the guy who solved the Gricar case. It really hurts if JKA is the nominee.

[Politigal]

so ....this DA who's had a myriad of problems while in office....who even withheld evidence in a murder case.....decides he's going to withhold the fact that a case has been solved....just to wait until election time???

Beam me up Scotty :cursing:

[Politigal]

It looks like Michael Madeira is trying to do some last minute damage control in the murder case where he was found to have withheld evidence.

http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/1234660.html

He claims Starr's testimony has since changed....

But that still doesn't change the fact that Madeira withheld the evidence to begin with.

[gstickley]

It looks like Michael Madeira is trying to do some last minute damage control in the murder case where he was found to have withheld evidence.



Yep, damage control aided by the CDT. The 'local hometown newspaper' still hasn't mentioned "The Daily Collegian" article with remarks by the candidates for District Attorney. It's only been 10 hrs. Do you reckon it might be because MM had nothing to say about RG's disappearance?????? (Oops, forgot. We now know how he felt upon hearing RG was missing.) :glare:

[2-B]

(Oops, forgot. We now know how he felt upon hearing RG was missing.)

C'mon, GS. The article was specific about his feelings.

(And meanwhile, SPM is noted as offering she'll do essentially only the obvious, review the case files thoroughly. With all the accolades SPM has had on this board, I'm kind of surprised that hasn't been mentioned as looking a lot less specific than what KA and TdB were noted as offering.)

[gstickley]

C'mon, GS. The article was specific about his feelings.

(And meanwhile, SPM is noted as offering she'll do essentially only the obvious, review the case files thoroughly. With all the accolades SPM has had on this board, I'm kind of surprised that hasn't been mentioned as looking a lot less specific than what KA and TdB were noted as offering.)

Well, that's what I thought too, just didn't say it! :tonguewag:
Had MM in my sights so far today . . . but the day is still young!

[2-B]

Well, that's what I thought too, just didn't say it! :tonguewag:
Had MM in my sights so far today . . . but the day is still young!

With SPM, I'm willing to concede we don't know how the interviews were edited and truncated. With MM, we already know how he would handle the Gricar case if he were the DA and don't need statements from him as to what he "would do" if he were elected.

[Serendipitous1]

What I read is about all I expected to hear from the Democrats at this point. These are smart people who are wise to Madeira's antics. They should all know what to say and when to say it. And Madeira has enough other problems to overcome if he has any hope of being re-elected.

The pall which has hung over his term in office is not Ray Gricar's shadow. Gricar is gone. The pall is of Madeira's own making...it is his office, his staff, his decisions, his screw-ups and his failures. So if he tries to declare some half-baked "closure" in the Gricar case (or gets SW or MR to do it for him), he does so at his own political peril.

As to who would best serve the interests of Centre County in general, and the Gricar case specifically, Stacy Parks Miller has my unwavering support...for whatever that is worth (me not being a Centre County resident).

[J. J. in Phila]

S1, any attempt at "closure" will need evidence.

[gstickley]

Apparently, the Centre Daily Times isn't interested in a "District Attorney Watch". As of this time, there still is nothing in the CDT about the remarks made by the candidates. "The Daily Collegian" had the story at 4:56 AM yesterday.

[sherrijean981]

Apparently, the Centre Daily Times isn't interested in a "District Attorney Watch". As of this time, there still is nothing in the CDT about the remarks made by the candidates. "The Daily Collegian" had the story at 4:56 AM yesterday.

I am a little disappointed in the CDT lately. They didn't even have the info that the Union County DA expected to be notified of any new evidence. The article on Ray had to be searched for and then the comments are no longer there. Most of the news on the online cite has old news from yesterday.

I personally think even in the past, the Daily Collegian gave out more info and still has a lot of items in the archives.

[J. J. in Phila]

I can fully distinguish between you and BB. I can also fully distinguish between you, BB, and the three Democratic candidates for DA.

And I can distinguish how frequently what goes into print is truncated (and, as we've so often seen in this case, how often it is slanted, re-shaped, misquoted, taken out of context, etc.).

I applaud the Collegian for bringing us some news of what the candidates have to say on the Gricar case.

It's naive and unfair to criticize any of the three Democratic candidates for failure to lay out specific plans based on one short article in a college newspaper. Other venues will allow them greater opportunities to detail what they would do. And quite frankly, you have no idea what the reporter asked each, what each responded, and what the reporter may have deleted from responses that each gave. (MM does not get a pass, IMO; he has had years to demonstrate what he would do with the case and for Ray Gricar.) Look no further than what SG's articles have done to TG's comments if you don't understand what I am saying. Even if a reporter isn't slanting information, he/she still makes editorial decisions and usually selects precious little from any interview to include in any article.

How am I being critical (especially since I think at least one of them is great)? They really didn't say anything, except "I'll look at the files." That's not a lot to say. They can't say too much else because they have not seen the file and MM has.

The Gricar case a political hot potato, and Madeira is wearing oven mitts.

[Serendipitous1]

How am I being critical (especially since I think at least one of them is great)? They really didn't say anything, except "I'll look at the files." That's not a lot to say. They can't say too much else because they have not seen the file and MM has.

The Gricar case a political hot potato, and Madeira is wearing oven mitts.One would hope the next DA would not wear blinders. Stacy Parks Miller is the only logical choice IMHO. I know that takes a leap of faith for some Gricar case followers. But it is my sincere belief.

[Politigal]

One would hope the next DA would not wear blinders. Stacy Parks Miller is the only logical choice IMHO. I know that takes a leap of faith for some Gricar case followers. But it is my sincere belief.

In your opinion, what exactly about SPM's experience exceeds that of JKA?

[J. J. in Phila]

In your opinion, what exactly about SPM's experience exceeds that of JKA?

She clearly has more administrative experience, both in the public and private sector.

[Serendipitous1]

Apparently, the Centre Daily Times isn't interested in a "District Attorney Watch". As of this time, there still is nothing in the CDT about the remarks made by the candidates. "The Daily Collegian" had the story at 4:56 AM yesterday.Nothing in MJ's Election Notebook today either...and MJ had been "itching" for the candidates to address Gricar. Something is up...when a student-run college newspaper scoops the CDT.

[J. J. in Phila]

so ....this DA who's had a myriad of problems while in office....who even withheld evidence in a murder case.....decides he's going to withhold the fact that a case has been solved....just to wait until election time???

Beam me up Scotty :cursing:

Ah, they knew about the computer searches 2 1/2 years ago. They knew about the Fenton sighting, that the Wilkes-Barre witness was a cop, that McKnight's witness saw RFG.

[Serendipitous1]

Maybe what's up is that the students, being students, are taking their "journalism" seriously (probably in hopes of landing a better job than one at the Centre Daily Times).Little do they yet know about the "real world"...which makes them kings/queens for the day!

[Serendipitous1]

A silly (but for lack of a better) dedication to Mandy Hofmockel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z64YFNsBGMA&feature=PlayList&p=84DC9DB577484105&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=13) (The Daily Collegian) tonight...with thanks. You will, no doubt, go far.

[Politigal]

bringing this down from the links thread and I'm honestly trying to be impartial & fair

District Attorney Candidates Answer Questions

http://www.centredaily.com/423/story/1235537.html

And the question was:
What are the most important principles that you will apply in organizing the Centre County district attorney’s office, managing its budget and supervising assistant prosecutors?

Format for their responses
1) Principles they would apply
2) How they would organize the DA’s office
3) How they would manage the budget
4) How they would supervise Assistant DA’s

JKA’s responses (in order as listed above)
1) Fairness, accountability, productivity, zero tolerance for conduct by any staff member which jeopardizes the reputation of the office or negatively impacts those who come in contact with it.
2) acquire professional staff in key areas of prosecution who have top-notch trial skills and significant specialized experience
3) emphasis on maximum use of fully funded national training programs
4) assign an assistant district attorney with a general case-load to participate with, observe and occasionally “second-chair” cases at trial with the primary prosecutor in order to build skills and experience in the specialized area over time

SPM’s responses
1) leadership, good judgment and accountability.
2) will refocus the office to confront pressing problems in our community
3) maximize the office’s limited resources for the benefit of the public.
4) will take complete responsibility for my entire staff; will mentor them to over-achieve; ensure that my prosecutors can effectively interpret and apply legal principles; They will be mentored to appraise cases accurately, to adopt effective courses of action; will monitor their ability to establish and maintain successful working relationships with police and the public

IMO, both JKA and SPM gave great responses. I’m not bothering with De boef’s or Madeira’s ...IMO, neither make the grade.

I might add that SPM reiterated her “second in command” (assistant DA) experience twice. But, it still falls short in comparison to JKA’s “second in command” experience.

IMO

[Serendipitous1]

JKA was never in command of anything. She got 'schplotzed' as a teacher of music and she got 'schplotzed' as an ADA...look it up. If you want to have this Gricar thing finalized, back Stacy Parks Miller (realizing that neither you nor I have an actual vote in this matter).

[Politigal]

JKA was never in command of anything. She got 'schplotzed' as a teacher of music and she got 'schplotzed' as an ADA...look it up. If you want to have this Gricar thing finalized, back Stacy Parks Miller (realizing that neither you nor I have an actual vote in this matter).

I was simply referring to JKA's yrs of experience as an ADA vs SPM's....

[Serendipitous1]

I was simply referring to JKA's yrs of experience as an ADA vs SPM's....It goes way beyond that. Centre Countians have no logical choice except Stacy Parks Miller, for better or worse. And I, for one, am thinking it will be for the better.

[Politigal]

It goes way beyond that. Centre Countians have no logical choice except Stacy Parks Miller, for better or worse. And I, for one, am thinking it will be for the better.

I keep seeing your sales pitches...but no legitimate reasons why.

??

[Serendipitous1]

I keep seeing your sales pitches...but no legitimate reasons why.

??Look it up "brazen hussy"...do your own research.

[Politigal]

Look it up "brazen hussy"...do your own research.

Testy aren't we...

Here's a new link to try out.

http://www.ourcampaigns.com/RaceDetail.html?RaceID=537933

[Serendipitous1]

Testy aren't we...

Here's a new link to try out.

http://www.ourcampaigns.com/RaceDetail.html?RaceID=537933I saw that...and there is still nothing there. And I realize the moment you change your signature ("brazen hussy") I will look like the total a-hole I am. Do you think that will bother me in the least?

[Politigal]

I saw that...and there is still nothing there. And I realize the moment you change your signature ("brazen hussy") I will look like the total a-hole I am. Do you think that will bother me in the least?

I'm not changing it...and I took your post in stride...it's nuttin honey

[J. J. in Phila]

You have to ask years of experience doing what?

Hypothetically, you might have a candidate that's been an attorney for 20 years, and never run anything. You might have another candidate that was an attorney for 10 years, but spent five of them running an office.

On that basis, I'd go with SPM (maybe TdB) over JKA.

I'm also troubled that in the last three years, JKA has not been practicing or teaching. I wonder what she was doing?

[Serendipitous1]

I'm not changing it...and I took your post in stride...it's nuttin honeyI love you too, Texas flower! LOL

[Politigal]

Just a little research ---

SPM was an assistant DA in Clearfield County

from 2000 census
population 84,000
crimes 1,544

JKA was an assistant DA in Centre County

from 2000 census
population 135,000
crimes 3,636

[J. J. in Phila]

S1, do you remember the "Guru ad" from Bob Casey in 1986?

[Politigal]

a little more research ---

SPM --
Parks Miller joined the Clearfield County District Attorney’s Office in 1996, when she was first hired by then District Attorney, Judge Paul E. Cherry. Ultimately, Judge Cherry appointed Parks Miller to the position of First Assistant District Attorney, a position Parks Miller held until leaving the D.A.’s Office in 2001 to join the law firm of Miller Kistler & Campbell.
(it doesn’t actually say what year she became an asst DA) – so, she had approx 5 yrs experience as an asst DA

JKA --
I moved to Centre County in 1987 to take a position as an Assistant Public Defender. The following year I was invited by DA Ray Gricar to join his staff as an Assistant District Attorney, and remained in that position until I was discharged by DA Madeira in January, 2006 – so, she had approx 18 yrs experience as an asst DA (and in a more heavily populated county)

[Serendipitous1]

Wow...that is a "real" eye-opener, Politigal. Thanks!

[Politigal]

Wow...that is a "real" eye-opener, Politigal. Thanks!

I don't know about you, but I think 18 yrs experience as an asst DA makes 5 yrs look ...well, inexperienced.

[Serendipitous1]

S1, do you remember the "Guru ad" from Bob Casey in 1986?No...but Bob Casey was an a-hole...no one got "Texas justice" under Bob Casey, despite his tentative (read: Catholic) governship. And his son is the same way. Pity the fools in NEPA. What does this have to do with Gricar?

[Serendipitous1]

I don't know about you, but I think 18 yrs experience as an asst DA makes 5 yrs look ...well, inexperienced.That is wrong (read: drone plane) thinking.

[Politigal]

No...but Bob Casey was an a-hole...no one got "Texas justice" under Bob Casey, despite his tentative (read: Catholic) governship. And his son is the same way. Pity the fools in NEPA. What does this have to do with Gricar?

perhaps we need to don our tin foil hats...

[Politigal]

That is wrong (read: drone plane) thinking.


maybe on Mars

[Serendipitous1]

maybe on MarsOr 9/11 Venus!

[Politigal]

I guess JJ was referring to this on Casey:

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2008/08/the-myth-of-bob.html

Unlike his three previous tries, Casey won the Democratic primary, defeating Philadelphia district attorney (and future governor) Ed Rendell. He then faced Thornburgh's lieutenant governor, William Scranton III in the general election. The race was considered too close to call until the week before the election, when the Casey campaign staff, led by Carville, launched the now infamous "guru ad" which attacked Scranton's practice of transcendental meditation. The ad campaign depicted Scranton as a "dope smoking hippie," complete with 1960s-era pictures of the lieutenant governor wearing long hair, a beard, and tie-dyed clothing. Casey defeated Scranton by a margin of 79,000 votes.

[Politigal]

Or 9/11 Venus!

seriously....

you're 7 yrs old & have a piece of glass in your eye....

would you want your little sister to dig it out....or your Mom?

you're taking a flight to London...

would you want a pilot who had his license 5 yrs at the control or a pilot who had been flying for 18 yrs?

you have a brain tumor....

you get my drift

[Politigal]

Someone commented on the CDT this morning about the candidates...and it was hilarious...but the CDT deleted it shortly after.

They basically said...that all the Democratic candidates could poop in his grandkids Fruity Pebbles and he would still vote for one of them as opposed to a **** bag like Madeira. It cracked me up. :thumbsup:

[Cloudbuster]

In keeping things fair where is Tony Deboefs experience? Im curious about why doesn't he make the grade? There is 3 canidates not just 2. Im not a voting Countain but I am looking at all 3 canidates, and the 4th we know already.

[Politigal]

In keeping things fair where is Tony Deboefs experience? Im curious about why doesn't he make the grade? There is 3 canidates not just 2. Im not a voting Countain but I am looking at all 3 canidates, and the 4th we know already.

here you go CB

http://www.ourcampaigns.com/CandidateDetail.html?CandidateID=213312

[J. J. in Phila]

I guess JJ was referring to this on Casey:

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2008/08/the-myth-of-bob.html

Unlike his three previous tries, Casey won the Democratic primary, defeating Philadelphia district attorney (and future governor) Ed Rendell. He then faced Thornburgh's lieutenant governor, William Scranton III in the general election. The race was considered too close to call until the week before the election, when the Casey campaign staff, led by Carville, launched the now infamous "guru ad" which attacked Scranton's practice of transcendental meditation. The ad campaign depicted Scranton as a "dope smoking hippie," complete with 1960s-era pictures of the lieutenant governor wearing long hair, a beard, and tie-dyed clothing. Casey defeated Scranton by a margin of 79,000 votes.

Now, change "dope smoking hippie" to "loony conspiracy theorist." Run it in Centre County.

[Politigal]

Now, change "dope smoking hippie" to "loony conspiracy theorist." Run it in Centre County.

Naaahhh....it won't fly

the Hindenburg comes to mind...lol

[Serendipitous1]

Now, change "dope smoking hippie" to "loony conspiracy theorist." Run it in Centre County.Now, change "dope smoking hippie" to "loony conspiracy theorist"...and run it from Philadelphia. God have mercy! Will central Pennsylvania survive the onslaught?

[Politigal]

Now, change "dope smoking hippie" to "loony conspiracy theorist"...and run it from Philadelphia. God have mercy! Will central Pennsylvania survive the onslaught?

Personally, I see nothing wrong with being a hippie...:laugh:

[Cloudbuster]

Thanks Pgal:) He seems like a contender. He had experience alongside of RG. I wonder what was it that made RG invite JKA to work for him?

[Politigal]

Thanks Pgal:) He seems like a contender. He had experience alongside of RG. I wonder what was it that made RG invite JKA to work for him?

I don't know. She was working as a public defender....and maybe he saw her passion for the law there.

[J. J. in Phila]

Personally, I see nothing wrong with being a hippie...:laugh:


You are not a voter in Centre County.

It actually has flown, with 58% thinking it's walkaway.

[Cloudbuster]

The only real possible motive for a walk away that I can think of but do NOT believe is Ray's retirement funds. He wanted to retire at 59. I've read that retiring before the proper age can lead to extra taxes being paid. Secondly both ex wifes might be entitled to his pension funds and BG could possibly collect on his SSI. What would be left for him? In that scenario not much is my guess coupled with higher taxes. Also a common law relatonship depending on how many years together might also be entitled to some amount that he made while living with her. I wonder if his former ex EG might have filed to claim her end knowing that it was announced publically that he was retiring in 8 months? Furthermore it would be wiser to let the funds accumulate interest and get to the ripe retirement age. Is it possible 2 weeks before he disappeared he learned of all this? If so I'd leave too.

[J. J. in Phila]

The only real possible motive for a walk away that I can think of but do NOT believe is Ray's retirement funds. He wanted to retire at 59. I've read that retiring before the proper age can lead to extra taxes being paid. Secondly both ex wifes might be entitled to his pension funds and BG could possibly collect on his SSI. What would be left for him? In that scenario not much is my guess coupled with higher taxes. Also a common law relatonship depending on how many years together might also be entitled to some amount that he made while living with her. I wonder if his former ex EG might have filed to claim her end knowing that it was announced publically that he was retiring in 8 months? Furthermore it would be wiser to let the funds accumulate interest and get to the ripe retirement age. Is it possible 2 weeks before he disappeared he learned of all this? If so I'd leave too.

You know CB, you might be on to something. Right question?

[Serendipitous1]

seriously....

you're 7 yrs old & have a piece of glass in your eye....

would you want your little sister to dig it out....or your Mom?

you're taking a flight to London...

would you want a pilot who had his license 5 yrs at the control or a pilot who had been flying for 18 yrs?

you have a brain tumor....

you get my driftI would not trust JKA to pick at my eyes or pilot my plane. She would not...repeat NOT...be my choice for the next Centre County DA.

[Cloudbuster]

Thanks JJ!! I been going over pages and pages of how the pension gets distributed. What I keep finding is each ex might be entitled to what he made during the marriages and some states also reconize common law marriages. Im not done researching but BG was married to him longest which makes for her to be eligable for part in his SSI. They say to go over your divorce decree to see if you are eligable to his ASSETS and pension. I realize BG also worked a job so Im not sure how the distribution would work at retirement there. Then there is EG Im not sure if she worked but she might have it already in her divorce decree about his pension. RG might figure he really couldn't afford to retire and paniced? Leaving the money where it is safe guards it and accumulates interest. No retirement means no sharing of the wealth. Now at some point usually at 70 you have better of done something with it.

[Serendipitous1]

You know CB, you might be on to something. Right question?Would there be any fiduciary reason to have Gricar declared "dead"?

[Politigal]

You are not a voter in Centre County.

It actually has flown, with 58% thinking it's walkaway.


JJ - 58% is your fantasy. If you're referring to one of those online polls...they are sooooo easily manipulated. I voted 4 times in one last week.

And you are not a voter in Centre County either.


jeez

[Politigal]

I would not trust JKA to pick at my eyes or pilot my plane. She would not...repeat NOT...be my choice for the next Centre County DA.

and once again, I have to ask...can you expound on Why????

You keeping making these little remarks...but never provide reasons on why you feel that way.

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ - 58% is your fantasy. If you're referring to one of those online polls...they are sooooo easily manipulated. I voted 4 times in one last week.

And you are not a voter in Centre County either.


jeez

58% was a posted online poll result, posted by S1. Not perfect, but indicative.

[Politigal]

58% was a posted online poll result, posted by S1. Not perfect, but indicative.

yes, indicative of someone manipulating a poll...

[Serendipitous1]

and once again, I have to ask...can you expound on Why???? You keeping making these little remarks...but never provide reasons on why you feel that way.S1 thinks it better not to expound where confidences are involved. Hopefully the candidates will sort themselves out in the next few weeks, so Centre County Democrats can select the strongest person to run against MM.

[J. J. in Phila]

Would there be any fiduciary reason to have Gricar declared "dead"?


The estate would get a lump sum payment at least. The estate might get interest on that as well (which might be subject to income tax). The estate might be able to claim the frozen salary.

In theory, at least, the estate could have applied for his pension.

[Serendipitous1]

Especially for you locals (http://www.centredaily.com/331/story/1236249.html):
- Candidate interviews to air on C-NET (http://centreconnect.org/) forums starting May 5.
- C-NET will broadcast live Centre County League of Women Voters (http://www.palwv.org/centre/index.html) debates on April 29 and 30.
- The League is working with the CDT on a voters’ guide.
- The CDT will publish letters to the editor in support of candidates (no relatives, no campaign managers, due by May 8, 150 words or less, no attacks).

[J. J. in Phila]

yes, indicative of someone manipulating a poll...


Probably not. There were more than 500 votes in the polls. It's not hugely accurate, as to the result, but too many votes were case.

Why do you possibly thing that anyone:

1. Would want to manipulate the poll?

2. That anyone could get 200-300 people together to do it?

Wow, the conspiracy must been recruiting. :rolleyes:

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks JJ!! I been going over pages and pages of how the pension gets distributed. What I keep finding is each ex might be entitled to what he made during the marriages and some states also reconize common law marriages. Im not done researching but BG was married to him longest which makes for her to be eligable for part in his SSI. They say to go over your divorce decree to see if you are eligable to his ASSETS and pension. I realize BG also worked a job so Im not sure how the distribution would work at retirement there. Then there is EG Im not sure if she worked but she might have it already in her divorce decree about his pension. RG might figure he really couldn't afford to retire and paniced? Leaving the money where it is safe guards it and accumulates interest. No retirement means no sharing of the wealth. Now at some point usually at 70 you have better of done something with it.

In theory, yes, it is possible one (or both) ex-wives could get a piece.

[2-B]

Probably not. There were more than 500 votes in the polls. It's not hugely accurate, as to the result, but too many votes were case.

Why do you possibly thing that anyone:

1. Would want to manipulate the poll?

2. That anyone could get 200-300 people together to do it?

Wow, the conspiracy must been recruiting. :rolleyes:

That seems to me a very naive position. Online polls are manipulated all the time. There were online polls back in October 2008 showing McCain leading Obama 70% to 30%. What makes you think it takes a couple hundred people to fool around with such polls?

[Politigal]

On the candidates..I had read several comments on the CDT about SPM and a former boyfriend or coworker(Bill Shaw) or something...having a little catfight.

Did anyone else see that?

It's being posted about on other sites too:

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/clearfield-pa/T5M6H355T10EL1UT0#c18

and here's the comment that was on the CDT

http://www.centredaily.com/personas/?plckUserId=42b7493266ca459ce19862373a353ed1-17951&insiteUserId=42b7493266ca459ce19862373a353ed1-17951

Maybe she could use some pointers on the topic of domestic violence??

[Politigal]

CB...are you intimating that you have heard of some secret reason that RG brought JKA on board?

[Politigal]

I noticed the cover-up implications, too, Pgal. Centre County has already seen plenty of that, IMO.

It does seem that way from the past few yrs for sure.

[Cloudbuster]

Pgal there is something but I don't think its a huge secret but only she could answer it. I don't think its important but maybe to others it might be. She will still make a good DA. I just wonder if it would be brought up if it would impact anything--on my end it don't mean anything.

[J. J. in Phila]

Perhaps the proper question should be directed to JKA, which is why did RG invite you on? Answers might be what you find in the tabloids or not? Nothing personal and I do like JKA, so cryptic that will have to rest. I think S1 knows what I mean and perhaps JJ.

JJ there is also something coming up in searches about a survior benefit? Can you explain that or Obrett? I mean like if someone is declared dead is that a death benefit or does that mean something else? Is that strictly your pension alone or a separate amount as in death insurance?

It was reported in the Lockhaven paper, IIRC, that the estate would get a lump sum on the pension benefits. There would also the potential of life insurance; I don't know if RFG had any life insurance.

There would be some tax implications, but I tried to factor that into my blog on pensions.

[J. J. in Phila]

That seems to me a very naive position. Online polls are manipulated all the time. There were online polls back in October 2008 showing McCain leading Obama 70% to 30%. What makes you think it takes a couple hundred people to fool around with such polls?


I'm not asking you if the poll could be manipulated, but I'm asking you why it would be manipulated? Two very different questions, and neither nor P'gal have provided an answer.

It takes a few hundred because, more than 300 voted in favor of walkaway, "ran away," in the polls term.

[2-B]

I'm not asking you if the poll could be manipulated, but I'm asking you why it would be manipulated? Two very different questions, and neither nor P'gal have provided an answer.

It takes a few hundred because, more than 300 voted in favor of walkaway, "ran away," in the polls term.

I thought means was the key, not motivation, LOL. It's not as if you can do a Vulcan mind meld with folks with a keyboard, correct? :rolleyes:

Why does anybody manipulate ANY poll? Because it can be done. Because someone is bored. Because someone wants his/her position to appear stronger than it is.

And someone with computer expertise or inside access could do the manipulating without 300 people.

[Politigal]

I thought means was the key, not motivation, LOL. It's not as if you can do a Vulcan mind meld with folks with a keyboard, correct? :rolleyes:

Why does anybody manipulate ANY poll? Because it can be done. Because someone is bored. Because someone wants his/her position to appear stronger than it is.

And someone with computer expertise or inside access could do the manipulating without 300 people.


yep, it's easy to do

You vote, clear your cookies, close your browser, open your browser and vote again...or

You vote, close your browser. Open a different browser (I have IE, Firefox, Opera and Maxthon) and vote again.

As far as *why* someone might want to do that in RG's case....hmmm, let me think. :)

walkaway push

[2-B]

As far as *why* someone might want to do that in RG's case....hmmm, let me think. :)

walkaway push

Eggs-actly.

[Chump#7]

Eggs-actly.


Anything else may tip over the Egg-cart. Messy - won't do that.

[J. J. in Phila]

I thought means was the key, not motivation, LOL. It's not as if you can do a Vulcan mind meld with folks with a keyboard, correct? :rolleyes:

Why does anybody manipulate ANY poll? Because it can be done. Because someone is bored. Because someone wants his/her position to appear stronger than it is.

And someone with computer expertise or inside access could do the manipulating without 300 people.

You and P'gal are the ones claiming that there is some conspiracy to manipulate the result of the poll. I doubt it, because it doesn't do anything.

Please note that now twice, you have not responded. And even with multiple browsers, it does work, unless you are suggesting a few hundred folks with multiple browsers.

Again, why go to all that trouble. Are you suggesting someone has a long term interest in manipulating Internet polls? Financial gain? Why don't you really answer the question?

[2-B]

Not responded to what, JJ?

Pgal and I have both given you answers suggesting

a) ways online polls are routinely manipulated, regardless of subject matter and

b) a specific reason certain factions might want to manipulate the Gricar poll results.

Whether this actually happened is anyone's guess. We have merely said that it can happen much more easily than you claim, and that there's a clear reason (evident many places around the web these days) that certain factions may want to do so.

Please do not twist what we have said into some trumped up conspiracy theory. We've merely been reacting to your claims that such polls can't be manipulated and that there would be no motivation to do so. Clearly those claims are not accurate.

[Serendipitous1]

Especially for you locals (http://www.centredaily.com/331/story/1236249.html):
- Candidate interviews to air on C-NET (http://centreconnect.org/) forums starting May 5.
- C-NET will broadcast live Centre County League of Women Voters (http://www.palwv.org/centre/index.html) debates on April 29 and 30.
- The League is working with the CDT on a voters’ guide.
- The CDT will publish letters to the editor in support of candidates (no relatives, no campaign managers, due by May 8, 150 words or less, no attacks).

S1 thinks it better not to expound where confidences are involved. Hopefully the candidates will sort themselves out in the next few weeks, so Centre County Democrats can select the strongest person to run against MM.To "confidences" add cheap shots...linking to wholly unsubstantiated and irrelevant "trailer-trash" talk from one mindless moron on multiple forums. Nice going! Very classy.

[2-B]

Nice going! Very classy.

Your outrage would be admirable if it applied equally across the board to all candidates, S1. But unmitigated (and unsubstantiated) trashing of other candidates has continued on this board without equal indignation.

[Politigal]

To "confidences" add cheap shots...linking to wholly unsubstantiated and irrelevant "trailer-trash" talk from one mindless moron on multiple forums. Nice going! Very classy.


First, can you provide info that the claims are wholly unsubstantiated? And I think the conduct/ethics of a DA candidate are extremely relevant...and as far as one mindless moron....you are mistaken. There are many people online (not just 1) who have posted on the subject....and granted, they might all be morons in your eyes....but then again...maybe they aren't...

Thx

[J. J. in Phila]

Not responded to what, JJ?

Pgal and I have both given you answers suggesting

a) ways online polls are routinely manipulated, regardless of subject matter and

b) a specific reason certain factions might want to manipulate the Gricar poll results.

Whether this actually happened is anyone's guess. We have merely said that it can happen much more easily than you claim, and that there's a clear reason (evident many places around the web these days) that certain factions may want to do so.

Please do not twist what we have said into some trumped up conspiracy theory. We've merely been reacting to your claims that such polls can't be manipulated and that there would be no motivation to do so. Clearly those claims are not accurate.

You told us how a group of people could manipulate an on-line poll. I doubt the existence of these "factions."

And as soon as you begin to discuss "factions" "manipulating" something, you are talking conspiracy theory.

Your post says it all.

[J. J. in Phila]

First, can you provide info that the claims are wholly unsubstantiated? And I think the conduct/ethics of a DA candidate are extremely relevant...and as far as one mindless moron....you are mistaken. There are many people online (not just 1) who have posted on the subject....and granted, they might all be morons in your eyes....but then again...maybe they aren't...

Thx

I've heard they are as well, first.

Second, claiming that she was the victim of an attack, even wrongly, doesn't relate to her "conduct/ethics."

No, it's just the same 3-4 folks.

[Politigal]

I've heard they are as well, first.

Second, claiming that she was the victim of an attack, even wrongly, doesn't relate to her "conduct/ethics."

No, it's just the same 3-4 folks.

First -- I didn't *claim* anything. I posted some links to what some others were saying about a domestic violence incident where she may have been involved, and where claims were made that the police reports & records of the incident were "disappeared."

And if someone was complicit in something like that....that directly relates to conduct/ethics.

Is any of it true? I have no idea. It seems an odd story for someone to fabricate.

Just as I don't understand those who try to degrade JKA with criticism and unsubstantiated rumor for --

possibly working at a grocery store since being fired by MM (an honest living)

possibly playing an organ at her church (nothing wrong with that)

for filing an appeal some *30* odd yrs ago because she rec'd some unfavorable performance reviews when she was teaching (SPM was probably putting teeth under her pillow then - 3 decades ago)

or for possibly believing the gov't may have played some part in 9/11 (heck, I don't trust anything our gov't did under Bush reign)

I haven't truly followed too many campaigns...but I guess the dirt comes out in all of them.

Deciphering what's really dirt or just fluff, is the hard part.

[2-B]

You told us how a group of people could manipulate an on-line poll. I doubt the existence of these "factions."

And as soon as you begin to discuss "factions" "manipulating" something, you are talking conspiracy theory.

Your post says it all.

No one here argued that manipulation absolutely happened to the Gricar poll. We just responded to your claims that the Gricar poll couldn't be manipulated and that there was no motivation to manipulate it.

Try the "conspiracy theory" somewhere else.

[J. J. in Phila]

No one here argued that manipulation absolutely happened to the Gricar poll. We just responded to your claims that the Gricar poll couldn't be manipulated and that there was no motivation to manipulate it.

Try the "conspiracy theory" somewhere else.

I argue it probably didn't and that there are not really these individual "factions" out there someplace "manipulating" the polls.

Some people have, those that indulge in "conspiracy theories."

[J. J. in Phila]

First -- I didn't *claim* anything. I posted some links to what some others were saying about a domestic violence incident where she may have been involved, and where claims were made that the police reports & records of the incident were "disappeared."


The alleged "involvement" was that she was attacked.

[

And if someone was complicit in something like that....that directly relates to conduct/ethics.


Please explain how being a victim, allegedly, relates to her ethics.


Is any of it true? I have no idea. It seems an odd story for someone to fabricate.


Not if is from someone who is an opponent of the alleged "perpetrator."


Just as I don't understand those who try to degrade JKA with criticism and unsubstantiated rumor for --

possibly working at a grocery store since being fired by MM (an honest living)


I've never seen that posted, until now, but I have heard it. If she was unable, unlike Lance Marshall, to be hired as an attorney or teacher, it speaks to her ability.

I think JKA, and her supporters, should be clear about that three year gap in her resume. I frankly could find any reference to her handling any cases after she left the DA's office.

I heard about months ago, and have not posted it.

[
possibly playing an organ at her church (nothing wrong with that)


That was noted in the press accounts of her candidacy four years ago; I think she has a degree in music as well as law.


for filing an appeal some *30* odd yrs ago because she rec'd some unfavorable performance reviews when she was teaching (SPM was probably putting teeth under her pillow then - 3 decades ago)


I had not heard about this.


or for possibly believing the gov't may have played some part in 9/11 (heck, I don't trust anything our gov't did under Bush reign)


While I've heard some allusions to that on the board, I've never heard it stated so plainly (no pun intended). Yes, if an elected official believes in government conspiracies, that is relevant.


I haven't truly followed too many campaigns...but I guess the dirt comes out in all of them.

Deciphering what's really dirt or just fluff, is the hard part.

Frankly, if half of what you've posted is true, and she is the nominee, Madeira's won't have to worry until 2013.

I could see the Fall campaign now, "Karen, clean up on aisle five!"

[J. J. in Phila]

BTW, P'gal, by mentioning JKA's employment publicly, you just made it an issue.

[Politigal]

BTW, P'gal, by mentioning JKA's employment publicly, you just made it an issue.

I have no idea what her employment is and I seriously doubt it would be an issue.

While some voters might like MM, or De boef, and some might like a pretty blonde, others might just vote for a candidate with the most experience.

[J. J. in Phila]

I have no idea what her employment is and I seriously doubt it would be an issue.

While some voters might like MM, or De boef, and some might like a pretty blonde, others might just vote for a candidate with the most experience.


You doubt is wrong. Interestingly, JKA isn't telling the voters what she was doing over the last three years. That reflects on her experience.

If she was was not in the legal profession and took a job waaaaaay out from that profession, that tells us how much here peers value her performance. If so, that is a damning judgment.

Voters might find that running a district attorney's office is better experience than stacking cans of beans.

They also might be a concerned that a candidate not telling them what they have been doing for the last three years may not reflect well on the candidate's candor.

You've opened up a whole can of beans, er worms. Just remember, you opened it.

[Politigal]

JJ,
you must read a lot of Sci-fi or comics....because your views just aren't very realistic.

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ,
you must read a lot of Sci-fi or comics....because your views just aren't very realistic.


Oh believe me, they are. the subject of your post was one of the reasons I said there were political problems with JKA, if known. You just helped make them known.

I'm fairly certain that MM knew them before.

What isn't realistic is to think that a person who got her clock cleaned by MM will have a better shot now.

What isn't realistic is to think that a candidate who tell the voters what she's been doing for the last three years will engender a reputation for trust.

Others have said it as well. If she should win the primary, MM next real contest won't be until 2013.

And rember this. I've done this in the past, abet on a smaller scale.

[2-B]

Two things, JJ:

1) You imply strongly that KA sought positions in the legal field since MM unceremoniously dumped her upon his ascension to the DA throne and that she was rebuffed in attempts to work in the legal field.

If I were you, I would not float the suggestion that KA sought legal positions and was rejected in those attempts without evidence of such.

It's quite possible that, faced with MM's dumping, she decided to take a break from the pressures of the legal profession after 18 years while she took stock of her next moves. She obviously did not intend to leave the legal profession behind, or she would not have kept her education and licenses current. And clearly she has taken stock and decided that her next move would be to run for DA.

2) You are also wrong to imply that KA has not told voters what she's been doing since MM unceremoniously dumped her. She's told them she took a position in one of her fields. What a scandal that she has degrees in two divergent areas! What a scandal to take a job in an area she's been educated and trained in! I have no idea whether she took a second job as well, and I doubt whether voters would make a decision based on such an issue in these economic times. Good honest work is good honest work. I imagine many voters will relate to what it's like to be laid off after many years of service.

In the end, voters will make their choices. Playing dirty politics on this board or the CDT site doesn't help voters make good or informed choices, IMO.

[2-B]

Instead of good advice, why not encourage the use of a longer and stronger rope?

Excellent point. Forgive me. I wrote my post late at night and perhaps wasn't thinking clearly. In the light of day, your suggestion is the perfect one. Were I as brilliant as you, I would have thought of it myself. :wink:

[J. J. in Phila]

Two things, JJ:

1) You imply strongly that KA sought positions in the legal field since MM unceremoniously dumped her upon his ascension to the DA throne and that she was rebuffed in attempts to work in the legal field.

If I were you, I would not float the suggestion that KA sought legal positions and was rejected in those attempts without evidence of such.

It's quite possible that, faced with MM's dumping, she decided to take a break from the pressures of the legal profession after 18 years while she took stock of her next moves. She obviously did not intend to leave the legal profession behind, or she would not have kept her education and licenses current. And clearly she has taken stock and decided that her next move would be to run for DA.



2-B, first, in a university town, there are other things that an attorney could do, as I've indicated, still in the field but not actually join a firm or practice. There are also other things, such as working as "in house counsel," for business firms, that limit the amount of actual trial activity.

If what you are saying is correct, she did leave the legal profession behind for three years in terms of her actual work activities. It also seems clear that you don't know what she was doing for the past three years.



2) You are also wrong to imply that KA has not told voters what she's been doing since MM unceremoniously dumped her. She's told them she took a position in one of her fields. What a scandal that she has degrees in two divergent areas! What a scandal to take a job in an area she's been educated and trained in! I have no idea whether she took a second job as well, and I doubt whether voters would make a decision based on such an issue in these economic times. Good honest work is good honest work. I imagine many voters will relate to what it's like to be laid off after many years of service.



Well, it is not in her bio (I read candidates bios). I've looked on the Internet, and was not able to find anything. The economy was not tough in 2006-2007. So, what was she doing. Yes, I've heard the same rumor, but I didn't post it.

She was a church organist in 2005, and, as I've indicated, it was mentioned in the the press. That's not criticism, merely fact.


In the end, voters will make their choices. Playing dirty politics on this board or the CDT site doesn't help voters make good or informed choices, IMO.

It isn't "dirty politics" to questions a candidate's record, especially for a position where that record is relevant for that position he/she is seeking. What each candidate has been doing in the legal field is relevant. It becomes more relevant because it is the preceding three years.

If someone were applying for the job for a janitor, honest work, and turned in a resume with a three year gap, the prior three years, questions would be raised. There is nothing wrong with being a janitor, but a District Attorney will have a far greater impact of the lives of a voter.

[J. J. in Phila]

Re: Release of information "on or after July 1."

Group of people = faction ?=? Madeira and Bellefonte Police Department?

Manipulating something ?=? Timing release of Gricar information to help Madeira's re-election campaign?

Are you talking conspiracy theory?

Thanks for the quoted post 2-B. Sometimes I'm almost sorry I use the ignore feature and don't traipse around in blobland.

From the bits and pieces I've seen quoted in others' posts, it seems like there is a conspiracy theory being suggested. Maybe in blobland, too? Or maybe I'm just not getting the full picture?

Disclaimer: As I've said before, I don't believe that the BPD is timing its release of information to assist anybody's campaign.

And these "factions" are leaping onto an Internet poll?

[J. J. in Phila]

Good advice. Although why give it?

Instead of good advice, why not encourage the use of a longer and stronger rope?

OOBrett, are you really suggesting that we shouldn't be asking about candidates job backgrounds, especially when it is relevant to the position that they are seeking?

I thought this was the USA, not the USSR?

[J. J. in Phila]

BTW: I was correct, JKA has a Masters in Music, according to her bio; ashe's also with music in a Bellefonte Church. If someone doesn't want vote for her for that reason, they are free to. It would not negatively affect my vote.

[2-B]

For anyone who has shared the experience of losing a job into which they have poured years of time, effort and commitment, I daresay little need be said concerning the emotional fallout which accompanied my dismissal by DA Madeira on January 3, 2006. I formally retired on County pension at the beginning of 2007, which would have been my twentieth year of service with the County. That of course will change if I am elected District Attorney. My law license is, and has been throughout the past three years, in active status, with all continuing education, fees and other licensing requirements current, and I have maintained state and local bar memberships. I have had the pleasure since the fall of 2006 of serving as Director of Music for a Bellefonte church, with a dedicated choir and a delightful 100-year-old 'tracker' pipe organ.

The past several years have provided a welcome break from the stress which often attended the type of cases which I prosecuted. For that reason, among others, deciding to run again for District Attorney was not an easy decision to make. But I believe that it is a decision which is consistent with the principles by which I have lived my life.

http://arnoldforda.org/2.html

Now, JJ, do you have evidence that KA attempted to get a job in the legal field and could not do so as you have been implying? Or would you like that longer rope?

[J. J. in Phila]

For anyone who has shared the experience of losing a job into which they have poured years of time, effort and commitment, I daresay little need be said concerning the emotional fallout which accompanied my dismissal by DA Madeira on January 3, 2006. I formally retired on County pension at the beginning of 2007, which would have been my twentieth year of service with the County. That of course will change if I am elected District Attorney. My law license is, and has been throughout the past three years, in active status, with all continuing education, fees and other licensing requirements current, and I have maintained state and local bar memberships. I have had the pleasure since the fall of 2006 of serving as Director of Music for a Bellefonte church, with a dedicated choir and a delightful 100-year-old 'tracker' pipe organ.

The past several years have provided a welcome break from the stress which often attended the type of cases which I prosecuted. For that reason, among others, deciding to run again for District Attorney was not an easy decision to make. But I believe that it is a decision which is consistent with the principles by which I have lived my life.

http://arnoldforda.org/2.html

Now, JJ, do you have evidence that KA attempted to get a job in the legal field and could not do so as you have been implying? Or would you like that longer rope?

I would find it significant if she didn't try to get a job in the legal profession, stunning. I have not said that she tried and failed, but even leaving the active practice voluntarily for three years would be telling. The point is, she's not telling the voter, just a three year gap.

I have tried not to cite the "emotional fallout" comment, her's, not mine, but that could also be significant. I didn't quote it, until you did. I would have not have advised her to make it.

It is a valid question to ask what she's been doing for the last three years.

The thing is, you really don't have to worry about me exploiting these things. You do have to worry about them being exploited in the Fall campaign, by the person she'd be running against. I said that I really didn't want to discuss it, yet you and P'gal decided to raise it.

[2-B]

I would find it significant if she didn't try to get a job in the legal profession, stunning.

And why is that? MM put her in the position of being out of the legal profession in the first place. Once there, she chose, for a short time, to opt for full retirement on the county pension. Stunning? Given the position MM put her in and given a climate where many businesses and colleges now offer early retirement with 20 years of service? The state of Connecticut offers judges full retirement with 20 years of service.

You are making way too much of this point, way more than the average voter would make of it. Most voters have common sense and can use it.


I have not said that she tried and failed, but even leaving the active practice voluntarily for three years would be telling.

Sure you have. Here's an exact quote from you: "If she was unable, unlike Lance Marshall, to be hired as an attorney or teacher, it speaks to her ability."

Tell us you're not implying that KA was unable to be hired. Tell us you're not trying to undermine voter confidence in her ability with that statement.


The point is, she's not telling the voter, just a three year gap.

She's not telling the voter? Can you not read and understand what she posted on her website? She explained clearly these things:

MM asked her to leave
She then retired on the county pension at what would have been the start of her 20th year of service
In retirement, she has been able to enjoy putting her other education and training to use as musical director at a Bellefonte church
Meanwhile, she's kept her law license and education current


That is plenty direct, and hardly tainted by scandal.

I have tried not to cite the "emotional fallout" comment, her's, not mine, but that could also be significant. I didn't quote it, until you did. I would have not have advised her to make it.

Oh yes. No voters will have any understanding whatsoever regarding the emotional impact of job loss. :rolleyes:

It is a valid question to ask what she's been doing for the last three years.

KA has clearly explained what she's been doing. If there's a second job out there (and I have no knowledge of this), so what? So long as it is honest work she took during retirement to make ends meet, that is KA's own personal financial business. It is not the business of the voting public.

The thing is, you really don't have to worry about me exploiting these things. You do have to worry about them being exploited in the Fall campaign, by the person she'd be running against. I said that I really didn't want to discuss it, yet you and P'gal decided to raise it.

What you clearly forget, JJ, is that MM, and only MM, is responsible for KA being without a job in the first place. He only opens himself up to criticism should he try to attack KA for whatever she has done or not done since he decided not to keep her on when he came into office.

The obvious response is this: his decision was to fire someone who had brought no disgrace to the county and had been a faithful and loyal servant to her former boss RG and to the citizens of Centre County. Meanwhile, his decision was to keep on the payroll some rather questionable people.

The fact that KA was out of work in the first place says much more about MM than it will ever say about KA. Good luck to him if he tries to exploit "what she was doing" after he dumped her.

[J. J. in Phila]

And why is that? MM put her in the position of being out of the legal profession in the first place. Once there, she chose, for a short time, to opt for full retirement on the county pension. Stunning? Given the position MM put her in and given a climate where many businesses and colleges now offer early retirement with 20 years of service? The state of Connecticut offers judges full retirement with 20 years of service.


No he didn't; she was not disbarred, we've seen with LM that he stayed in the legalk profession, and I've heard nothing about alleged misconduct on JKA's part. The state of Connecticut isn't relevant, at all.


You are making way too much of this point, way more than the average voter would make of it. Most voters have common sense and can use it.


The "average vote" will ask about that three year gap.




Sure you have. Here's an exact quote from you: "If she was unable, unlike Lance Marshall, to be hired as an attorney or teacher, it speaks to her ability."

Tell us you're not implying that KA was unable to be hired. Tell us you're not trying to undermine voter confidence in her ability with that statement.


Note the word "if." That is one possibly. If she chose not to continue not to continue in the field because of "emotional fallout," her words, quoted by you, what does that say about her emotional state?




She's not telling the voter? Can you not read and understand what she posted on her website? She explained clearly these things:

MM asked her to leave
She then retired on the county pension at what would have been the start of her 20th year of service
In retirement, she has been able to enjoy putting her other education and training to use as musical director at a Bellefonte church
Meanwhile, she's kept her law license and education current


That is plenty direct, and hardly tainted by scandal.


Ah, what she was doing for the last three years, in the legal field, a field she's asking the voters put her back into. I have not suggested a scandal, at all.




Oh yes. No voters will have any understanding whatsoever regarding the emotional impact of job loss. :rolleyes:



KA has clearly explained what she's been doing. If there's a second job out there (and I have no knowledge of this), so what? So long as it is honest work she took during retirement to make ends meet, that is KA's own personal financial business. It is not the business of the voting public.


What she has been doing, in the field for the last three years is relevant to the election, if anything. If she chose not to enter that field because of "emotional fallout," she said it and you first quoted it, that is relevant. If she could not enter the field because she couldn't be hired, that is relevant.



What you clearly forget, JJ, is that MM, and only MM, is responsible for KA being without a job in the first place. He only opens himself up to criticism should he try to attack KA for whatever she has done or not done since he decided not to keep her on when he came into office.

The obvious response is this: his decision was to fire someone who had brought no disgrace to the county and had been a faithful and loyal servant to her former boss RG and to the citizens of Centre County. Meanwhile, his decision was to keep on the payroll some rather questionable people.

The fact that KA was out of work in the first place says much more about MM than it will ever say about KA. Good luck to him if he tries to exploit "what she was doing" after he dumped her.

Let's not forget that JKA was rejected by the voters first. With you and P'gal around, MM won't need too much luck. (Hint: You are not helping JKA.)

BTW: Who was the guy that put "some rather questionable people" on the payroll in the first place? Who was the guy that put JKA on the payroll in the first place?

[Serendipitous1]

Female candidates could make history (http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2009/04/29/female_candidates_could_make_h.aspx). Two women run for district attorney in a controversial election.

Student candidates push primary vote (http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2009/04/28/student_candidates_push_primar.aspx). Many students filled out absentee ballots. De Boef got invited to the event...I wonder if the other candidates were as well.

[Politigal]

Any news on the breakfast this am?

[Serendipitous1]

Any news on the breakfast this am?The Midday Report (http://www.centredaily.com/news/breaking_news/story/1257869.html) says read about it in tomorrow's paper. Also, tonight is the League of Women Voters forum which will be broadcast at later dates on C-NET, Channel 7.

[Serendipitous1]

Mike Joseph's C-NET interviews (last week) with the 4 candidates can be viewed here (http://cnet.pegcentral.com/player.php?video=b4f69c5eb73c3712ccf68c69c3ec99fb) ...better if you have a high speed connection (or a whole lot of time to burn). Each candidate managed to mention Ray Gricar (though in MM's case not by name). There were some negative...well, you will just have to decide for yourselves.

[Politigal]

Mike Joseph's C-NET interviews (last week) with the 4 candidates can be viewed here (http://cnet.pegcentral.com/player.php?video=b4f69c5eb73c3712ccf68c69c3ec99fb) ...better if you have a high speed connection (or a whole lot of time to burn). Each candidate managed to mention Ray Gricar (though in MM's case not by name). There were some negative...well, you will just have to decide for yourselves.

thx so much for the link....it was interesting to listen to & watch each candidate, and they each brought their own unique spin to the conversation.

It's evident that JKA feels very passionately about child abuse cases and that's her forte, and she has a good grasp of the functions of the office, the process in going to trial, working closely with law enforcement, etc. and she has 18 yrs of solid (and recent) experience.

It was also evident that SPM is focused more on overall leadership of the office & making sure things are done right. I think she would make sure that mistakes were not made. And, she has several years of criminal law experience, as well as previous prosecutorial experience. I think she would "rule the roost" with a tough hand.

Madeira focused more on community outreach and victim satisfaction during his past 3 1/2 yrs...and his unbroken record of success (cough cough)...

De Boef...I'm sorry....he's just too down home & laid back...I couldn't watch all of his. He was just lacking some "ooomph" or something. It was almost like he was vying for Miss America or something...it's his "dream" to be a DA.

Overall, IMO, both the women are top notch candidates.

[nittany90]

S1 -- thanks for the link.
PG - On behalf of those of us with slooooooooooowwww computers, thanks for the synopsis.
Can you summarize what each candidate said about Gricar? Did anyone give a plan of action in terms of the investigation if they were elected?
Darn I wish I was a CC voter.

[Politigal]

S1 -- thanks for the link.
PG - On behalf of those of us with slooooooooooowwww computers, thanks for the synopsis.
Can you summarize what each candidate said about Gricar? Did anyone give a plan of action in terms of the investigation if they were elected?
Darn I wish I was a CC voter.

From what I watched, none of the candidates discussed the investigation.

JKA spoke of working with Gricar and how she would carry on, but she said she would do some things differently than he did.

SPM spoke of bringing the level of integrity back to the DA's office it once held under Gricar.

And I may have misinterpreted, but Madeira sort of intimated that when Gricar was DA some issues weren't taken care of.

IMO

[nittany90]

From what I watched, none of the candidates discussed the investigation.

JKA spoke of working with Gricar and how she would carry on, but she said she would do some things differently than he did.

SPM spoke of bringing the level of integrity back to the DA's office it once held under Gricar.

And I may have misinterpreted, but Madeira sort of intimated that when Gricar was DA some issues weren't taken care of.

IMO

Well, there's a shocker!!! :thumbdown:
Thanks for the update.

[J. J. in Phila]

Well, there's a shocker!!! :thumbdown:
Thanks for the update.

You might be missing the point a bit. Who hired LM? Who hired TdB and JKA? That is a political point MM could be trying to make.

[nittany90]

You might be missing the point a bit. Who hired LM? Who hired TdB and JKA? That is a political point MM could be trying to make.

No -- i see right thru him. That's why I said, "what a shocker". I see his political strategy -- "He hired these incompetents -- I've spent 3 1/2 years trying to clean up his mess and clean house, yet you want to put them back in office?" Sheesh.

I, for one, hope a good lawyer can prove that MM knew about LM's "inproprieties" and ignored it. I don't see anyone claiming that RG swept LM's indiscretions under the carpet. Except, perhaps, MM. And for that, I'd just consider the source.

[J. J. in Phila]

No -- i see right thru him. That's why I said, "what a shocker". I see his political strategy -- "He hired these incompetents -- I've spent 3 1/2 years trying to clean up his mess and clean house, yet you want to put them back in office?" Sheesh.

I, for one, hope a good lawyer can prove that MM knew about LM's "inproprieties" and ignored it. I don't see anyone claiming that RG swept LM's indiscretions under the carpet. Except, perhaps, MM. And for that, I'd just consider the source.


No, not even that. He claim that the other two are part of the "incompetents."

I think you are grandly underestimating how good a politician MM is.

[2-B]

No -- i see right thru him. That's why I said, "what a shocker". I see his political strategy -- "He hired these incompetents -- I've spent 3 1/2 years trying to clean up his mess and clean house, yet you want to put them back in office?" Sheesh.

I, for one, hope a good lawyer can prove that MM knew about LM's "inproprieties" and ignored it. I don't see anyone claiming that RG swept LM's indiscretions under the carpet. Except, perhaps, MM. And for that, I'd just consider the source.

Nail. On. Head. :thumbsup:

[J. J. in Phila]

Nail. On. Head. :thumbsup:

Still missing the point. There are two candidates in this race that are part of RFG's selection process. Taint that process, and they get tainted.

You assume that being associated with RFG is a good thing, politically. This year, it may not be, when MM get through with it. I'm not happy about it, but he could pull it off if either JKA or TdB are the nominees. :(

[nittany90]

No, not even that. He claim that the other two are part of the "incompetents."

I think you are grandly underestimating how good a politician MM is.

JJ - you may want to re-read my post above. I think it's pretty clear that I get that MM is pointing to TdB and JKA's incompetence, by saying "yet, you want to put them back in office".

He may be a great politician. But a great politician does not a great DA make.

[2-B]

JJ - you may want to re-read my post above. I think it's pretty clear that I get that MM is pointing to TdB and JKA's incompetence, by saying "yet, you want to put them back in office".

He may be a great politician. But a great politician does not a great DA make.

Exactly, N90. But in JJ we have someone who once held political office, as he frequently reminds us. He sees politics as bloodsport, through the eyes of politicians, and less through the eyes of the people those politicians would serve as elected officials.

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ - you may want to re-read my post above. I think it's pretty clear that I get that MM is pointing to TdB and JKA's incompetence, by saying "yet, you want to put them back in office".

He may be a great politician. But a great politician does not a great DA make.

I'm not defending MM, and I have not posted that he is a good DA. A great politician is what makes an elected DA.

[nittany90]

I'm not defending MM, and I have not posted that he is a good DA. A great politician is what makes an elected DA.

I cannot disagree with you on either of those points. Sadly, the best person for the job is not always elected.

[J. J. in Phila]

Exactly, N90. But in JJ we have someone who once held political office, as he frequently reminds us. He sees politics as bloodsport, through the eyes of politicians, and less through the eyes of the people those politicians would serve as elected officials.

First you should make that "public offices," but held elected political positions as well.

Second, you have understand that those "people those politicians would serve" make the politicians successful. MM is very good at influencing those people. I have not said he's a good DA, only good at getting and keeping the post.

Third, you seem to be following into the Morganelli trap, again.

[J. J. in Phila]

I cannot disagree with you on either of those points. Sadly, the best person for the job is not always elected.

This election won't be about a who could be a better DA, but about who is better at getting elected as DA.

[nittany90]

This election won't be about a who could be a better DA, but about who is better at getting elected as DA.

And that is exactly why I hate politics. No offense intended. I hate politics, not necessarily politicians. Past or present.

I get that it's the nature of the beast. And it most offices, it truly doesn't matter. But, a position as important to the community as a DA -- well, I would hope that the person who lands the job is the one who can best serve the community.

But, I don't have a CC vote, so really, it doesn't matter WHAT I think. Hopefully the voters make the right choice.

[J. J. in Phila]

And that is exactly why I hate politics. No offense intended. I hate politics, not necessarily politicians. Past or present.

I get that it's the nature of the beast. And it most offices, it truly doesn't matter. But, a position as important to the community as a DA -- well, I would hope that the person who lands the job is the one who can best serve the community.

But, I don't have a CC vote, so really, it doesn't matter WHAT I think. Hopefully the voters make the right choice.


No offense taken. :) I am however discussing things political, not necessarily who would do better at the point. But remember well, this election will be decided through the political process. That is ultimately what counts.

[Serendipitous1]

Dems take shots at incumbent (http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/1259564.html).

[Politigal]

Dems take shots at incumbent (http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/1259564.html).

Thx...the photos were a little bit amusing IMO --- the guys look a little bit uneasy in this one:

http://media.centredaily.com/smedia/2009/04/29/10/232-043009DA1_PHOTO.standalone.prod_affiliate.42.jpg

[nittany90]

Perhaps not directly related to the election (or is it evidence of a supervisory problem??), but interesting nonetheless.

Via brief, attorney calls Marshall's actions those of a "sexual predator"

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2009/04/30/brief_marshall_abused_power.aspx

[Politigal]

This election won't be about a who could be a better DA, but about who is better at getting elected as DA.

Not necessarily JJ.

That line of thinking assumes voters are ignorant, and I don't think that's the case.

IMO, Madeira is mistakenly holding onto hope that he's going to keep the DA position simply because he's already in there. He comes across as having an over inflated opinion of himself IMO.

SPM is going for a "tough gal" approach with her leadership pitch and wanting to revamp the DA's office, but she's still lacking in prosecutorial experience (5 yrs or less.)

JKA clearly has more experience than all the candidates, but I think needs to focus on communicating in more "to the point" & concise terms than she has so far, to get her message across and maybe pull from some of SPM's "tawanda" charisma.

JMHO

[Politigal]

DA Candidates spar at breakfast

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2009/04/30/da_candidates_spar_at_breakfas.aspx

[sherrijean981]

I watched the link provided for the interviews and was impressed with Karen Arnold's interview more than the other 3. It wasn't about "I" it was about the people, the cases, the issues. She is very well spoken and put the issues out there without patting herself on the back and smirking like one candidate did.

I couldn't get past the one person's slow start and the reason for wanting to be a DA.

But then, I am not a Centre County voter, so it doesn't matter what I think or who I would vote for.

[J. J. in Phila]

Not necessarily JJ.

That line of thinking assumes voters are ignorant, and I don't think that's the case.

IMO, Madeira is mistakenly holding onto hope that he's going to keep the DA position simply because he's already in there. He comes across as having an over inflated opinion of himself IMO.

SPM is going for a "tough gal" approach with her leadership pitch and wanting to revamp the DA's office, but she's still lacking in prosecutorial experience (5 yrs or less.)


First, the office is a large part an administrative one, so prosecutorial experience has less relevance than it use to. Second, who hired her may become quite negative in this election. MM is setting her and TdB up for it. It is not nice, but it is effective.


JKA clearly has more experience than all the candidates, but I think needs to focus on communicating in more "to the point" & concise terms than she has so far, to get her message across and maybe pull from some of SPM's "tawanda" charisma.

JMHO

And what we've been led to believe, zero administrative experience. Even a professor would have more.

[Politigal]

JJ - this line from your post takes the cake:

"prosecutorial experience has less relevance than it use to."

Do you honestly believe that prosecutorial experience has less relevance in the office of District Attorney?

[Politigal]

I watched the link provided for the interviews and was impressed with Karen Arnold's interview more than the other 3. It wasn't about "I" it was about the people, the cases, the issues. She is very well spoken and put the issues out there without patting herself on the back and smirking like one candidate did.

I couldn't get past the one person's slow start and the reason for wanting to be a DA.

But then, I am not a Centre County voter, so it doesn't matter what I think or who I would vote for.

I'm impressed with your honesty SJ....

And I agree with your assessment.

[Serendipitous1]

Thx...the photos were a little bit amusing IMO --- the guys look a little bit uneasy in this one:
http://media.centredaily.com/smedia/2009/04/29/10/232-043009DA1_PHOTO.standalone.prod_affiliate.42.jpgMa ybe it was because JKA was speaking at the time? JK, but I liked the seating arrangement...best to keep SPM as far from MM as possible. Once again MJ was hoping for some 'Dem clashing'. And he is right. If 'dem' gloves are going to come off, it will have to be soon.

I watched most of last week's C-NET interviews (MJ called it "profiling"...which got my back hairs up every time he said it). I agree with you (sort of)...that the ladies came across better than the gents.

But I note that JKA was critical of RG for compartmentalizing ADAs. I will add that to her disparaging remark last time around. But as I recall she asked to be assigned cases in a specific area. And BTW, is Gricar running this year? I thought MM was the opponent.

TdeB made it seem like he and RG were 'sympatico buds' or something (I did not listen to the rest of his segment either). I agree...he seems to want the title more than the duties of the office.

Same with MM. And he suggested RG had a bad rapport with police. It appears that MM has a Republican opponent afterall...a phantom one. Still living in Gricar's shadow I guess.

SPM stayed on target IMO...with a pledge to return the office to the esteem it had held for nearly 20 years, as her only reference to RG.

Gricar is gone. And none of the candidates are going to run the office exactly as Gricar did. We know how Gricar ran the office. We know how MM runs the office. What Centre countians really need to know is how the Dems would run the office.

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ - this line from your post takes the cake:

"prosecutorial experience has less relevance than it use to."

Do you honestly believe that prosecutorial experience has less relevance in the office of District Attorney?

Yes. Look at MM's problems. They are not that he is not effectively arguing cases; the guy has never lost a case. They are that he wasn't keep an eye on how the office was run or doing a poor job of it. LM is the prime example. Nobody is claiming he wasn't a good lawyer. (Those are even your arguments against him.)

You've never understood that.

Even 24 years years ago, in an open seat, RFG made the "prosecutor" argument, and barely won.

[Politigal]

Yes. Look at MM's problems. They are not that he is not effectively arguing cases; the guy has never lost a case. They are that he wasn't keep an eye on how the office was run or doing a poor job of it. LM is the prime example. Nobody is claiming he wasn't a good lawyer. (Those are even your arguments against him.)

You've never understood that.

Even 24 years years ago, in an open seat, RFG made the "prosecutor" argument, and barely won.

"never lost a case"...? what about case failures?

What about withholding evidence in a murder case?

and please show me a link to my arguments you claim above.

You continue to twist and turn JJ. You're saying Madeira didn't do a good job of running the office, yet in other posts you claim that he blames/or will be blaming Gricar for the staff & problems there.

And I understand as well as anyone....

especially that regardless of what anyone posts...YOU will argue with it.

[Serendipitous1]

JJ - this line from your post takes the cake:
"prosecutorial experience has less relevance than it use to."
Do you honestly believe that prosecutorial experience has less relevance in the office of District Attorney?I can appreciate career prosecutors (like Gricar, and JKA, and MM). You can learn a lot by doing. But that certainly would not exclude any experienced criminal-trial attorney from being qualified for the office of DA.

What separates them is the administrative ability and right temperament to lead and to manage the office. This is, IMO, one area where MM has failed (though he no doubt has learned much by doing). But among all of the candidates running IMO, this is where SPM would particularly excel. She has the prosecutorial and administrative experience...and, IMO, the right temperament.

[Politigal]

I can appreciate career prosecutors (like Gricar, and JKA, and MM). You can learn a lot by doing. But that certainly would not exclude any experienced criminal-trial attorney from being qualified for the office of DA.

What separates them is the administrative ability and right temperament to lead and to manage the office. This is, IMO, one area where MM has failed (though he no doubt has learned much by doing). But among all of the candidates running IMO, this is where SPM would particularly excel. She has the prosecutorial and administrative experience...and, IMO, the right temperament.

I'd like to read more about her actual administrative experience...or do we just have her word?

[Politigal]

I don't even find the word "administrative" on SPM's campaign website at all.

???

You'd think if that was her strongest attribute, that it would be mentioned somewhere.

[Politigal]

Also, I'm still very curious about how long SPM was actually an assistant DA. According to her website, she was first hired to work in the DA's office in 1996 and then it goes on to say that *ultimately* she became an assistant DA and then left in 2001.

It doesn't really give the year she became an ADA, so, it's possible she actually has way less than 5 yrs prosecutorial experience.

[Serendipitous1]

Anything else? I do not know how politics are in your neck of the woods. But I know when I see a "flower" in the typical central PA political "garden of gloom". I just wish I had a vote in Centre County.

[J. J. in Phila]

"never lost a case"...? what about case failures?

What about withholding evidence in a murder case?

and please show me a link to my arguments you claim above.

You continue to twist and turn JJ. You're saying Madeira didn't do a good job of running the office, yet in other posts you claim that he blames/or will be blaming Gricar for the staff & problems there.

And I understand as well as anyone....

especially that regardless of what anyone posts...YOU will argue with it.

None that he's ever tried, personally. I surprised when I heard it.

That murder case is being retried and will possibly be decided before the fall.

I have never claimed he's done a good job running the office; I have claimed he will probably blame a lot of the staff problems on RFG. Two different things. I don't know if you understand that they are to different things.

[J. J. in Phila]

Also, I'm still very curious about how long SPM was actually an assistant DA. According to her website, she was first hired to work in the DA's office in 1996 and then it goes on to say that *ultimately* she became an assistant DA and then left in 2001.

It doesn't really give the year she became an ADA, so, it's possible she actually has way less than 5 yrs prosecutorial experience.

She ultimately became First Assistant DA, something neither TdB nor JKA were. She was an ADA from the start, and ended with the senior position below the elected DA.

[Politigal]

She ultimately became First Assistant DA, something neither TdB nor JKA were. She was an ADA from the start, and ended with the senior position below the elected DA.

still, all together less than 5 yrs.

[J. J. in Phila]

still, all together less than 5 yrs.

And substantially more time in administration than either of the other two.

[J. J. in Phila]

SPM is winning the battle of the guest books, handily.

SPM 135

TdB 013

JKA 001

[Politigal]

And substantially more time in administration than either of the other two.

Do you have a link for her administrative work?

[Politigal]

SPM is winning the battle of the guest books, handily.

SPM 135

TdB 013

JKA 001

People using multiple ID's can sign the guestbook, much like what's done in comments on the CDT articles....:tonguewag:

[J. J. in Phila]

People using multiple ID's can sign the guestbook, much like what's done in comments on the CDT articles....:tonguewag:

You can continue the "conspiracy theories." Too many of them are signed and the margin is just too great.

[Politigal]

You can continue the "conspiracy theories." Too many of them are signed and the margin is just too great.

I don't doubt she has some fans.

I found this Penn State comment:

http://www.pennstateclips.com/2009/04/penn-state-football-wednesday-hearing.html

Stacy Parks Miller of Miller, Kistler, Campbell is--dare we say it?--smoking hot.

Yes, she's young, pretty & blonde. But her prosecutorial experience is shallow - 5 or less yrs at best, as compared to Arnold's 18.

What's strange to me JJ - is you & Pete think that if JKA were to win the nomination, that Madeira would pounce on her...for playing her church organ, or working at a grocery store or whatever other stupid reasons might be floating around....

But don't you think if SPM won the nomination that Madeira would also pounce on her history? I think you could count on him digging up whatever he could.

Furthermore, JKA, De Boef and Miller can easily pounce on Madeira's record. And it "ain't" as pretty a picture as he paints.

Hopefully, the voters of Centre County will vote for experience. All the candidates are touting their experience...but JKA has the most.

IMO

[Serendipitous1]

On the nature of newspaper bias and free campaigning (http://www.centredaily.com/331/story/1259580.html).

[J. J. in Phila]

P.gal,

First, if they vote on administrative experience, JKA comes in third in the primary.

Second, I've indicated that I've heard things in Philadelphia regarding JKA. If I've heard about it, MM doesn't have to do too much (You just helped him spread it some more; he really should but you on the payroll). They relate, directly, to her ability to serve as DA.

I've never made any negative comments about JKA's church activities either.

Third, JKA raised the issue of her absence from law in the past three years in her bio. It was a bad political mistake. She was in complete control of what goes into her bio, and she made this mistake. How many more will she make if the nominee?

The thing is, there is lot more MM can hit with her than there is on TdB or SPM. Right now, we're seeing MM push his problems on his predecessor. Both TdB and JKA were hired by his predecessor, as was LM. SPM doesn't have the vulnerabilities.

[Politigal]

I've yet to see any real substantiation of anyone's adminstrative experience.

And JJ, whether you've heard things about JKA in Phila or I've heard things about SPM in TX....it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. We don't count. We aren't Centre County voters.

I think the bottom line is....MM has made mistakes as DA and he isn't as popular as he would lead us to believe. Add to that he's Republican. Voters are turning in droves toward Democrats - as evidenced with the election of Obama. And look at Arlen Specter's defection in your state.

I think voters are much more aware these days. They're paying attention to issues, to finances, looking for integrity & transparency, and they're looking for representatives with experience, and ones they can trust.

IMO, JKA fits that bill.

[gstickley]

I've yet to see any real substantiation of anyone's adminstrative experience.

And JJ, whether you've heard things about JKA in Phila or I've heard things about SPM in TX....it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. We don't count. We aren't Centre County voters.

I think the bottom line is....MM has made mistakes as DA and he isn't as popular as he would lead us to believe. Add to that he's Republican. Voters are turning in droves toward Democrats - as evidenced with the election of Obama. And look at Arlen Specter's defection in your state.

I think voters are much more aware these days. They're paying attention to issues, to finances, looking for integrity & transparency, and they're looking for representatives with experience, and ones they can trust.

IMO, JKA fits that bill.

Very good, Pgal., very good.

[J. J. in Phila]

I've yet to see any real substantiation of anyone's adminstrative experience.

And JJ, whether you've heard things about JKA in Phila or I've heard things about SPM in TX....it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. We don't count. We aren't Centre County voters.

I think the bottom line is....MM has made mistakes as DA and he isn't as popular as he would lead us to believe. Add to that he's Republican. Voters are turning in droves toward Democrats - as evidenced with the election of Obama. And look at Arlen Specter's defection in your state.

I think voters are much more aware these days. They're paying attention to issues, to finances, looking for integrity & transparency, and they're looking for representatives with experience, and ones they can trust.

IMO, JKA fits that bill.

Dream on. The county is Republican, and there was an article a few weeks ago that Democratic registration is down. Ah, so reminiscent of Morganelli's great victory, first in the state, then in Central PA, then in Centre County, last year. :rolleyes:

The thing is, if the rumors are true, people saw JKA working (a "pleasure" I never had).

Keep dreaming. MM is not a strong candidate as he could have been, but he is formidable.

BTW: By talking about it, you are not helping her.

[Politigal]

"people saw JKA working" ...???

So What. Since when is working an honest living a bad thing?

You & Pete are condemning her for being HONEST and honesty/integrity are something sorely needed in law enforcement, and *especially* in Centre County IMO.

I think you & your cronies are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill JJ.

You cannot erase the fact that JKA has 18 yrs solid experience as an assistant DA.

no way no how

[J. J. in Phila]

"people saw JKA working" ...???

So What. Since when is working an honest living a bad thing?

You & Pete are condemning her for being HONEST and honesty/integrity are something sorely needed in law enforcement, and *especially* in Centre County IMO.

I think you & your cronies are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill JJ.

You cannot erase the fact that JKA has 18 yrs solid experience as an assistant DA.

no way no how

Where do you get this "You & Pete" nonsense?

Ah, they need someone who can run the office. Arguing cases or doing something else not running things doesn't give you experience for that. Number of years experience JKA has on that count? ZERO.

We're to talking about if she would be a good choice as an ADA for another employer (Hummmm, why didn't she think of that?). I think she would be. We are talking about if she can run the office.

BTW: How's Morganelli doing as AG? Good thing that "drove" of Democrats elected him.

As for mountain out a mole hill, I wasn't the one who raised the issue. You are.

[2-B]

People using multiple ID's can sign the guestbook, much like what's done in comments on the CDT articles....:tonguewag:

Why would someone even think a "battle of the guestbooks" means anything? What is this, high school?

Oooh, look. Polly got more signatures in her yearbook than Liz did and Bob did. Poor Liz and Bob. But that does it. I'm voting for Polly for homecoming queen!

[2-B]

Add to that he's Republican. Voters are turning in droves toward Democrats - as evidenced with the election of Obama. And look at Arlen Specter's defection in your state.



A bit off topic, but on the Specter point, Pgal, I'm going to have to disagree with you. That move was pure political expediency on his part. He knew he couldn't beat his Republican challenger PT on the Republican ticket. His only hope of running was to change parties.

(I have the really uncomfortable feeling JJ might agree with me on this one. Why does that make me :scared: ?)

[2-B]

"people saw JKA working" ...???

So What. Since when is working an honest living a bad thing?

You & Pete are condemning her for being HONEST and honesty/integrity are something sorely needed in law enforcement, and *especially* in Centre County IMO.



I did have to do a double-take when I read the post saying it was a bad move for KA to be honest with the voters on her bio page.

And how scandalous to see someone working!

[2-B]

As for mountain out a mole hill, I wasn't the one who raised the issue. You are.

Not true, JJ. Your trashing of KA began long, long ago.

The pre-primary trashing of KA that's coming from you is just an extension of that.

If you really don't want to see MM elected, get behind one of the Democratic candidates and shout to the rooftops about how great that candidate is. Don't spend your time trashing one of the people running against MM.

[Politigal]

A bit off topic, but on the Specter point, Pgal, I'm going to have to disagree with you. That move was pure political expediency on his part. He knew he couldn't beat his Republican challenger PT on the Republican ticket. His only hope of running was to change parties.

(I have the really uncomfortable feeling JJ might agree with me on this one. Why does that make me :scared: ?)

I agree...Specter had his motives.

But contrary to what JJ says...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_County,_Pennsylvania

As of November 2008, there are 106,169 registered voters in Centre County [1].

* Democratic: 46,541 (43.84%)
* Republican: 40,881 (38.51%)
* Other Parties: 18,747 (17.66%)

Centre County had for many years been a strongly Republican county like most of rural Pennsylvania. In recent years, however, it has been becoming more competitive. In 2000 George W. Bush defeated Al Gore with 52% of the vote to Gore's 43%. In 2004 Bush won the county by a much smaller margin. Bush won 51% to Kerry's 47%, a margin of only 4%. In 2006, Governor Ed Rendell and Bob Casey Jr. both carried Centre and Democrat Scott Conklin decisively won the State House seat left open by the retirement of Republican Lynn Herman in the 77th district. In 2008, the Democrats captured the countywide registration edge, Barack Obama carried the county with 55% of the vote to McCain's 44%, and the other three statewide winners (Rob McCord for Treasurer, Jack Wagner for Auditor General, and Tom Corbett for Attorney General) also carried Centre.

[Politigal]

Not true, JJ. Your trashing of KA began long, long ago.

The pre-primary trashing of KA that's coming from you is just an extension of that.

If you really don't want to see MM elected, get behind one of the Democratic candidates and shout to the rooftops about how great that candidate is. Don't spend your time trashing one of the people running against MM.

Can you imagine the lucky candidate's glee with JJ's support...lol

[J. J. in Phila]

I did have to do a double-take when I read the post saying it was a bad move for KA to be honest with the voters on her bio page.

And how scandalous to see someone working!



Let me put it this way.

I want to hire a head janitor, basically to supervise about 15 people.

Joe applies for job. Joe has been a janitor for 18 years, but doesn't have any experience supervising anyone. Joe had good reputation as a janitor, but his last boss was a rival and got rid of him 3 years ago; I heard about it.

Joe applies and hands me a resume. The resume stops three years ago. Joe mentions "emotional fallout" from losing the job, but doesn't explain the gap. When asked about the gap of someone who likes Joe, a reference, the friend/reference implies "emotional fallout" explains the gap.

I'm not going to hire Joe as my new head janitor.

[2-B]

But contrary to what JJ says...



Totally agree there's been a subtle shift toward the dems in CC. (That wouldn't be the first time reality was contrary to what JJ says . . . )

[Politigal]

Let me put it this way.

I want to hire a head janitor, basically to supervise about 15 people.

Joe applies for job. Joe has been a janitor for 18 years, but doesn't have any experience supervising anyone. Joe had good reputation as a janitor, but his last boss was a rival and got rid of him 3 years ago; I heard about it.

Joe applies and hands me a resume. The resume stops three years ago. Joe mentions "emotional fallout" from losing the job, but doesn't explain the gap. When asked about the gap of someone who likes Joe, a reference, the friend/reference implies "emotional fallout" explains the gap.

I'm not going to hire Joe as my new head janitor.

Emotional fallout from being fired from a position you loved & excelled at for over 18 years would be a normal/natural thing JJ, especially if the firing was strictly due to politics.

Can you not see that?

Again....I applaud JKA's honesty.

[Politigal]

Are we seeing that same honesty with regard to SPM's past??

hmmm

[2-B]

I'm not going to hire Joe as my new head janitor.

That's you. Not every employer (read: voter) will feel that way.

Let's try it another way. Joe can hand you a resume and just gloss over a three-year gap from janitorial service with no explanation. This would raise your curiosity about what he is hiding.

Or Joe could hand you a resume with a three-year gap from janitorial service explained: his last boss let him go. He had enough years of service to take early retirement, and he did so. In the meantime, he spent time working in another field he also trained in. Now he wants to return to janitorial service. You could find Joe's honesty refreshing and not find the gap in service a concern.

Not unless some pot stirrers on a message board tried to make an issue of it, that is.

[Politigal]

or JJ could hire the other applicant who doesn't really have a lot of janitorial experience but is really good at organizing the cleaning supplies...(supposedly)....lol

[2-B]

Emotional fallout from being fired from a position you loved & excelled at for over 18 years would be a normal/natural thing JJ, especially if the firing was strictly due to politics.

Can you not see that?

Again....I applaud JKA's honesty.

Great post, Pgal. Why is admitting a normal human reaction a bad thing in JJ's world, or in politics?

Heck, it got Hilary's voters all fired up in her favor when she was close to tears during the primary.

[gstickley]

Emotional fallout from being fired from a position you loved & excelled at for over 18 years would be a normal/natural thing JJ, especially if the firing was strictly due to politics.

Can you not see that?

Again....I applaud JKA's honesty.

The following is taken from KA's campaign website.

For anyone who has shared the experience of losing a job into which they have poured years of time, effort and commitment, I daresay little need be said concerning the emotional fallout which accompanied my dismissal by DA Madeira on January 3, 2006.

I cannot believe that there are people who would be insensitive enough to make a 'big deal' about that statement.

I know of the "emotional fallout" from losing a job for no other reason than pure meannesss. Several friends & acquantances in my area have experienced the same thing recently: worked at the same job & liked it for most of their adult lives, let go for no apparent reason, losing their life & health insurance, too young for Social Security. I don't know about Centre Co., PA, but in my area, it certainly has made a difference in how the "employer" is seen. And anybody making a 'big deal' about "emotional fallout" of the employees would be as despicable as the employer.

[2-B]

I know of the "emotional fallout" from losing a job for no other reason than pure meannesss. Several friends & acquantances in my area have experienced the same thing recently: worked at the same job & liked it for most of their adult lives, let go for no apparent reason, losing their life & health insurance, too young for Social Security. I don't know about Centre Co., PA, but in my area, it certainly has made a difference in how the "employer" is seen. And anybody making a 'big deal' about "emotional fallout" of the employees would be as despicable as the employer.

It's the same in Centre County, GS.

My opinion: those running around various sites calling attention to this statement by KA just make MM look bad, which is fine by me.

[J. J. in Phila]

That's you. Not every employer (read: voter) will feel that way.

Let's try it another way. Joe can hand you a resume and just gloss over a three-year gap from janitorial service with no explanation. This would raise your curiosity about what he is hiding.

Or Joe could hand you a resume with a three-year gap from janitorial service explained: his last boss let him go. He had enough years of service to take early retirement, and he did so. In the meantime, he spent time working in another field he also trained in. Now he wants to return to janitorial service. You could find Joe's honesty refreshing and not find the gap in service a concern.

Not unless some pot stirrers on a message board tried to make an issue of it, that is.

There is another problem 2-B. Joe's resume says that he was holding a second job while working. It wasn't a full time job, but Joe was doing it for years, including while he was working as a janitor. Now, Joe is still doing that, but it was never his main job before 2006.

[J. J. in Phila]

It's the same in Centre County, GS.

My opinion: those running around various sites calling attention to this statement by KA just make MM look bad, which is fine by me.

If you feel it is fine to call attention to a candidate's emotional state, especially one that you claim to support, and I don't claim to support, be my guest. But remember, you are the one that brought it up and you are the one that wants to discuss it.

[Politigal]

If you feel it is fine to call attention to a candidate's emotional state, especially one that you claim to support, and I don't claim to support, be my guest. But remember, you are the one that brought it up and you are the one that wants to discuss it.


JJ - you are actually the one that brought it up in your janitor scenario.

[2-B]

There is another problem 2-B. Joe's resume says that he was holding a second job while working. It wasn't a full time job, but Joe was doing it for years, including while he was working as a janitor. Now, Joe is still doing that, but it was never his main job before 2006.

That would be called "moonlighting," JJ. Hundreds of thousands of Americans do it. I've done it.

And I would not be scandalized by it unless it involved someone working a job that's illegal or immoral.

[2-B]

If you feel it is fine to call attention to a candidate's emotional state, especially one that you claim to support, and I don't claim to support, be my guest. But remember, you are the one that brought it up and you are the one that wants to discuss it.

Your ability to rewrite what posters have said and "interpret" what they believe is legendary, JJ.

For the record, I actually have no dog in the Centre County Democratic primary. Like you, I cannot vote in it. I am bothered, however, that you and others have been allowed to engage in unfettered trashing of KA on this board for years, and it is especially bothersome now that KA is a candidate in the primary race. The primary race has simply become an excuse to continue personal attacks on someone who, for whatever flaws you might perceive, was willing to go public with her concerns regarding the stalled Ray Gricar case.

Only a handful of people in Ray's circle have been willing to do that. And for that, she has my respect. For the record, I'm not particularly interested in your evaluations or others' of whether or not she was effective in her efforts. I am saying she was willing to stick her neck out when others have sat by quietly, and that took personal courage. I admire BB and T McK for the same reason: all are colleagues who have stood up for Ray Gricar when others have been essentially silent.

And in terms of who brought up what and who wants to discuss what, I would say you have a very bad memory for someone self-reported to have a "near photographic memory." The public origins of the rumors you are pushing did not come from me or Pgal or anyone else you are pointing a finger at.

[nittany90]

Your ability to rewrite what posters have said and "interpret" what they believe is legendary, JJ.

For the record, I actually have no dog in the Centre County Democratic primary. Like you, I cannot vote in it. I am bothered, however, that you and others have been allowed to engage in unfettered trashing of KA on this board for years, and it is especially bothersome now that KA is a candidate in the primary race. The primary race has simply become an excuse to continue personal attacks on someone who, for whatever flaws you might perceive, was willing to go public with her concerns regarding the stalled Ray Gricar case.

Only a handful of people in Ray's circle have been willing to do that. And for that, she has my respect. For the record, I'm not particularly interested in your evaluations or others' of whether or not she was effective in her efforts. I am saying she was willing to stick her neck out when others have sat by quietly, and that took personal courage. I admire BB and T McK for the same reason: all are colleagues who have stood up for Ray Gricar when others have been essentially silent.

And in terms of who brought up what and who wants to discuss what, I would say you have a very bad memory for someone self-reported to have a "near photographic memory." The public origins of the rumors you are pushing did not come from me or Pgal or anyone else you are pointing a finger at.

Right on, 2B. And, since this IS the Ray Gricar thread, I think this bears bolding. I don't know who's best suited for the DA position. But I know who, politically and personally, went public with her "concerns" about Gricar and how the case was handled, even when voicing those concerns may have not been "politically" brilliant. That speaks volumes to me, of character.

[2-B]

But I know who, politically and personally, went public with her "concerns" about Gricar and how the case was handled, even when voicing those concerns may have not been "politically" brilliant. That speaks volumes to me, of character.

Exactly. In an era where "every man for himself" is the watch word, the integrity necessary to take personal and political risk for the sake of someone else is incredibly admirable. I do not understand how some can claim to care so much about Ray Gricar and simultaneous trash KA when she has stood up for him. What would RG have to say about that?

[sherrijean981]

She ultimately became First Assistant DA, something neither TdB nor JKA were. She was an ADA from the start, and ended with the senior position below the elected DA.


What does it matter anyways? RG had a "first" ADA and he immediately went into active first ADA when RG disappeared. He had 8 months to prove himself and make the investigation more than what it was, but he didn't. A lot more could have been done in those 8 months.

[sherrijean981]

Dream on. The county is Republican, and there was an article a few weeks ago that Democratic registration is down. Ah, so reminiscent of Morganelli's great victory, first in the state, then in Central PA, then in Centre County, last year. :rolleyes:

The thing is, if the rumors are true, people saw JKA working (a "pleasure" I never had).

Keep dreaming. MM is not a strong candidate as he could have been, but he is formidable.

BTW: By talking about it, you are not helping her.


JJ being Democrat might not be a bad thing right now. We just had a loooooong time Republican change to Democrat that shocked all parts of government, all across the US. There were many Republicans besides him that changed party before the presidential election. Probably more now.

As to what JKA did the last 3 years, at least she was doing something, and not just sitting around. You have no idea what she might have been doing in her home, on her computer, furthering her education, keeping up with what is going on. As you, CB and I know it can be done. The internet is amazing!! As to church work, or playing the organ, our county is very religious, and in the church there is organization, ways to help the community. She hasn't laid down and died, she is rip roaring ready to go again.

Personally, after the loss of her boss, RG, you have no idea what she might have been doing in that area either. I don't believe she was sitting on her duff, wondering.

[J. J. in Phila]

That would be called "moonlighting," JJ. Hundreds of thousands of Americans do it. I've done it.

And I would not be scandalized by it unless it involved someone working a job that's illegal or immoral.

"Moonlighting" implies a second job. Okay, I don't have any problem with a second job, or this one in particular. She didn't have a first job according to her bio, or she did, but she isn't telling us what it was.

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ being Democrat might not be a bad thing right now. We just had a loooooong time Republican change to Democrat that shocked all parts of government, all across the US. There were many Republicans besides him that changed party before the presidential election. Probably more now.


Actually, there tends to be a backlash, not great, but it doesn't help. In 1985, in a more Republican Centre County, right after Reagan's massive victory (and he won Centre County), RFG won, by about 600 votes. Compare that to the last election results.


As to what JKA did the last 3 years, at least she was doing something, and not just sitting around. You have no idea what she might have been doing in her home, on her computer, furthering her education, keeping up with what is going on. As you, CB and I know it can be done. The internet is amazing!! As to church work, or playing the organ, our county is very religious, and in the church there is organization, ways to help the community. She hasn't laid down and died, she is rip roaring ready to go again.


She was with her church in the last election, also playing the organ. The other three have been doing a lot, arguing case, serving as attorneys.


Personally, after the loss of her boss, RG, you have no idea what she might have been doing in that area either. I don't believe she was sitting on her duff, wondering.

As far as I'm concerned, fine, she should tell the voters about it. JKA hasn't.

[2-B]

"Moonlighting" implies a second job. Okay, I don't have any problem with a second job, or this one in particular. She didn't have a first job according to her bio, or she did, but she isn't telling us what it was.

Would you mind keeping your stories straight, then?

Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
There is another problem 2-B. Joe's resume says that he was holding a second job while working. It wasn't a full time job, but Joe was doing it for years, including while he was working as a janitor. Now, Joe is still doing that, but it was never his main job before 2006.

You complain "Joe" was holding a second job while working "as a janitor." Then you say that KA (Joe) didn't have a first job. What's the "janitorial" job if not the first job?

Geesh.

[2-B]

She was with her church in the last election, also playing the organ. The other three have been doing a lot, arguing case, serving as attorneys.

If not for MM's actions, KA would still have been arguing cases and serving as an ADA for Centre County.

As far as I'm concerned, fine, she should tell the voters about it. JKA hasn't.

She did, insofar as what she likely wanted to make public.

Has MM made public everything he has done for RG?
Has SPM?
Has TdB?
For that matter, have BB and TMcK made everything they have done public?

KA has put more detail on the public record regarding her thoughts about the Gricar case than just about anyone from the "inner circle" IMO.

Again, I'm not particularly interested in your views or anyone else's as to what you think of the relative success or failure of those efforts.

I'm saying you can't say "she should tell voters about it" when she has already done more than most to do just that.

[Serendipitous1]

C-NET's League of Women Voters' Candidate's Night (http://cnet.pegcentral.com/player.php?video=2428887c77435917cccdcdc28c2781d1) (4/29/09).

[day2day]

I usually try my bestest to stay outta PA political conversations-BUT-I have a question I hope someone can answer for me~~
Is PF out campaigning for her boss-saying what a WONDERFUL job he has done in trying to solve the vanishing of her "beloved" Mr. Ray Gricar?

[J. J. in Phila]

2-B, P'gal posted it, and you decided to include comments from JKA's bio. I actually looked at my old posts where I have repeatedly said that I didn't want to do another candidate's work for them. MM should put both of you on the payroll.

I do admire McKnight and Buehner, but because they suggested a course of action. I've yet to hear any new course of action from anyone in this race. I understand why, but JKA commented on the case extensively, prior to running, and there was none. Heck, I've said more about what should be done than she has, at this point.

The "public origins," if you want to call it that, came in part JKA's own bio. I saw it, but I didn't comment on it, until you decided to, on a public message board. You keep on commenting on it. :rolleyes:
I really didn't want to be the one to comment on it, or see it discussed, but you chose that course of action.

[J. J. in Phila]

I usually try my bestest to stay outta PA political conversations-BUT-I have a question I hope someone can answer for me~~
Is PF out campaigning for her boss-saying what a WONDERFUL job he has done in trying to solve the vanishing of her "beloved" Mr. Ray Gricar?

It's doubtful. I've never heard of her being political.

[J. J. in Phila]

Would you mind keeping your stories straight, then?

Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post


You complain "Joe" was holding a second job while working "as a janitor." Then you say that KA (Joe) didn't have a first job. What's the "janitorial" job if not the first job?

Geesh.

I've known numerous organists over the years, Joe's second job. I've never known them actually making more than a janitor, or more professional position.

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ - you are actually the one that brought it up in your janitor scenario.

Not a few days ago. Remember your post #111 P'gal, found here:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=352081&page=3

The date stamp says: "Last edited by Politigal; 04-22-2009 at 09:41 PM"

Surprisingly, I'd never heard about some of the things you posted, and never commented on JKA's church activities, for that matter.

No, what I had heard about and read, I didn't post. I have no idea what you, a claimed JKA supported were doing posting it on a public website. I'm sure MM will be sending you a check sometime soon.

[Politigal]

Not a few days ago. Remember your post #111 P'gal, found here:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=352081&page=3

The date stamp says: "Last edited by Politigal; 04-22-2009 at 09:41 PM"

Surprisingly, I'd never heard about some of the things you posted, and never commented on JKA's church activities, for that matter.

No, what I had heard about and read, I didn't post. I have no idea what you, a claimed JKA supported were doing posting it on a public website. I'm sure MM will be sending you a check sometime soon.

JJ ...you're really losing it.

Where in that post does it mention emotional fallout ...anywhere???

jeez...

this is so ridiculous

I'm going to follow OOBrett...and make good use of the ignore button again.

It's just not worth the headache.

[Politigal]

C-NET's League of Women Voters' Candidate's Night (http://cnet.pegcentral.com/player.php?video=2428887c77435917cccdcdc28c2781d1) (4/29/09).

thx for the link

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ ...you're really losing it.

Where in that post does it mention emotional fallout ...anywhere???

jeez...

this is so ridiculous

I'm going to follow OOBrett...and make good use of the ignore button again.

It's just not worth the headache.

It is in JKA's bio, and 2-B, remember her, decided to post it as a follow up. Here it is:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=352081&page=4

Post 129, 04-23-2009, 11:14 AM

Now neither of you can even remember what you are posting. Seriously, are you reading these posts?

[2-B]

2-B, P'gal posted it, and you decided to include comments from JKA's bio. I actually looked at my old posts where I have repeatedly said that I didn't want to do another candidate's work for them. MM should put both of you on the payroll.

I do admire McKnight and Buehner, but because they suggested a course of action. I've yet to hear any new course of action from anyone in this race. I understand why, but JKA commented on the case extensively, prior to running, and there was none. Heck, I've said more about what should be done than she has, at this point.

The "public origins," if you want to call it that, came in part JKA's own bio. I saw it, but I didn't comment on it, until you decided to, on a public message board. You keep on commenting on it. :rolleyes:
I really didn't want to be the one to comment on it, or see it discussed, but you chose that course of action.

First, you know perfectly well where the comments on the issue originated. It wasn't here, it wasn't from me or Pgal, and it wasn't on KA's bio. Please do not play coy.

Second and more important, unlike you, many people don't feel as if there's anything that needs to be hidden. The attempts to trash KA on the issue, however, deserved to be addressed.

They have been. Attempts to further the discussion will be on your shoulders.

[Politigal]

for those that may not be able to watch videos on your computer - here's my interpretation/overview of the League of Women Voters "Candidates Night."

Each of the candidates were asked to respond to the same 6 questions, and then they were allowed to make a closing statement. Their responses were limited to 1 min each.

The questions:


How will you keep in touch with the public & your constituents?
What would your priority as DA be?
What have you done for the past 5 yrs?
What are your thoughts on having a Drug Court?
How would you deal with the trend of "sexting?"
What changes would you make in the operation of the DA's office?


Their responses:

Miller

Being open & avail, community outreach, and making sure victim advocates avail
has a vision for "smart prosecution," matching skill sets, efficient mgmt, maximizing resources
practiced crim law which gives insight to the other side as opposed to her opponents
needs to be targeted, work on rehab & punishment, reduce recidivism
need new legislation specifically for juveniles, rehab
smart prosecution, focus on drug & alcohol offenses, skill sets, mentoring, being accountable, overachieving
15 yrs criminal law experience, mentored, took responsibility, good decision making, and is ready to hit the ground running


De Boef

being out & about, having an open door policy
it's hard to set priorities...staff/budget/finding justice/making victims priority
taught constitutional & crim law, defense atty, previous asst DA
need for options as opposed to mandatory sentencing, need diversionary programs
teen court, peer groups, taking 1 case at a time
more efficient scheduling of prelims, jury selections, looking at mgmt issues
it's a hard job, lots of pressure, but he loves it, he hated leaving it, he wants to go back to it, and he's good at it


Arnold

would hold press conferences to discuss & take questions, being avail to the public
openness, accountability, good use of manpower & staff skills, gave stats on inefficient case mgmt & jury selection during Madeira's office
worked 24/7 for 18 yrs til 2006, has the skills, has worked the cases, is aware, & is specialized, gave stats for Madeira's lower case output as opposed to Gricar's
not opposed to a drug court or dui court, but would need to monitor the program to see how well it works, determine the best way to fund it, thinks it would be useful as a hybrid & would require devoting another Judge
has to be addressed thru education & public awareness as much as prosecution, changes need to be made to the laws, needs focus on juvenile system, foresees appellate issues with current law
stressed more openness with the public, developing a better staff, skillsets, mentoring
working closer with law enforcement in daily consultation to prepare the best possible case, has 18 yrs experience, 8 specializing, referred to the lower # of yrs experience her opponents have, has the expertise & has been "in the trenches"


Madeira

been DA 3 1/2 yrs, being out in the community, keeping website up to date with email & phone
been DA 3 1/2 yrs, main focus is administration - not just trials, budget, dealing with drugs & domestic violence
been DA 3 1/2 yrs, prosecuting cases, id'ing ways to work more efficiently
focus on diversionary programs, make it work and reduce recidivism, then focus on drug court
problems with the current law, has visited all the high schools speaking about social & criminal consequences, needs to work on legislation
making the system more efficient, recognizing which cases need to be tried, representing the victims
continue working with the public, said he wants to be more open than the office was under Gricar, work with law enforcement, work with victims/victim services

[2-B]

Thanks for the summary, Pgal. Much appreciated.

[Politigal]

Thanks for the summary, Pgal. Much appreciated.

Thx, I'm going to watch it again more closely tomorrow and get all the details down on the stats that JKA referred to....that part was pretty interesting to me.

I'm not sure, but I think she was saying when Gricar was DA that the office handled more cases in 1 yr than Madeira has in 3 1/2.

[J. J. in Phila]

First, you know perfectly well where the comments on the issue originated. It wasn't here, it wasn't from me or Pgal, and it wasn't on KA's bio. Please do not play coy.

Second and more important, unlike you, many people don't feel as if there's anything that needs to be hidden. The attempts to trash KA on the issue, however, deserved to be addressed.

They have been. Attempts to further the discussion will be on your shoulders.

The comment you made, as has been shown, was posted by you, quoting JKA's bio. I saw it there, but I never commented on it, until you posted it.

Now, there is a three year gap in JKA's bio on her website, and that has been posted.

Link to her bio: http://www.arnoldforda.org/2.html

Link to your post: http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=352081&page=4

Now, it's kind of hard claiming it's untrue when there is a record of them.

I have not been able to find a record of any practice during those three years; it doesn't mean she wasn't only that cannot find any. Yes, I agree that this should not be hidden, though I would it not to be addressed by posters (which is the reason I didn't post what I've heard). And I've heard some other things that I still have not posted, and am not planning to.

As for P'gal's comments, as I've indicated that one I had heard, and one of the others I'd never heard before. Some, I've heard (from the press accounts in the last campaign and was possibly in her last bio) but I didn't see anything wrong with it.

[sherrijean981]

Thx, I'm going to watch it again more closely tomorrow and get all the details down on the stats that JKA referred to....that part was pretty interesting to me.

I'm not sure, but I think she was saying when Gricar was DA that the office handled more cases in 1 yr than Madeira has in 3 1/2.


Exactly! Also Madeira pulled a lot of juries and only used a dozen or so each year, a waste of time and money for others.

I listened to 18 minutes of it and I think JKA and SPM are both well spoken and have ideas. It is 2:30 and I am ready for bed, will watch the rest this weekend. Your summary was right on, pgal.

[Serendipitous1]

Thx, I'm going to watch it again more closely tomorrow and get all the details down on the stats that JKA referred to....that part was pretty interesting to me.

I'm not sure, but I think she was saying when Gricar was DA that the office handled more cases in 1 yr than Madeira has in 3 1/2.I hope you are able to transcribe those stats she was rattling off. Sounded like some good hits being meted out to Mr. ('I am the DA') Madeira.

Being experienced trial attorneys, they all know how to speak...and they all seem to have their own 'talking points' down pretty well. But once again I was not particularly impressed by De Boef (pronounced 'deh-boof', I learned).

Voices recently asked the candidates a question. It must have been by phone interview or something, because the responses seemed to be all chopped up. I had to chuckle at the 'winning the hearts and minds' (http://voicesweb.org/node/2471) wording in the question though...I know some of you will understand.

[Serendipitous1]

It seems MM's "campaign website" (http://www.madeiraforda.com/) is presently the one paid for by all Centre countians. Alternatives:

Dubbia dubbia dubbia dot onetermmike dot com (http://web.archive.org/web/*/madeiraforda.com/*).

The people of Centre County would be well advised to elect me to a second term (http://voicesweb.org/node/2471).

“My biggest concern is we're politicizing something that is specifically in this case our district attorney who has gone missing” (http://wearecentralpa.com/content/fulltext/?cid=29991).

[Serendipitous1]

Here is the third question and the candidates’ responses (http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/1264250.html).

[Politigal]

I hope you are able to transcribe those stats she was rattling off. Sounded like some good hits being meted out to Mr. ('I am the DA') Madeira.

respectfully snipped

I watched the League of Womens Voters Candidates Night question/answers again and these are some of the statistics that J. Karen Arnold made note of:

In response to the question of what would her priority as DA would be, she spoke of better use/mgmt of manpower. She said that while Madeira has been DA, it has been very inefficiently managed.

She noted the numbers of juries pooled versus the number of cases that actually went to trial:

2006 - 64 juries - only 11 cases went to trial
2007 - 72 juries - only 16 cases went to trial
2008 - 59 juries - only 17 cases went to trial

Considering juries consist of 12 jurors & 2 alternates, that's approx 2,100 people that were called to serve, who had to rearrange their work schedules, etc...for naught.

In Arnold's response to what she's done the past 5 yrs, she noted that over the last 3 1/2 yrs Madeira + 7 assistant DA's only tried a total of 44 cases. During Gricar's tenure, *each* assistant DA tried approx 12 cases per year. Madeira's output has been squat.

Finally, during her response to the question of what changes she would make in the DA's office, Arnold noted that developing the staff was key. Madeira has one assistant DA who has only tried 3 cases in the past 3 1/2 yrs, with only partial success in *one* of those cases. She talked of the lack of mentoring and/or training under Madeira.

and there ya' go

[2-B]

Wow. Pretty instructive when laid out that way.

Thanks, Pgal.

[Politigal]

I'm really curious if Sloane is the asst DA who has only tried 3 cases in 3 1/2 yrs (with only 1 case being partially successful).....considering his extended medical leaves.

[J. J. in Phila]

I watched the League of Womens Voters Candidates Night question/answers again and these are some of the statistics that J. Karen Arnold made note of:

In response to the question of what would her priority as DA would be, she spoke of better use/mgmt of manpower. She said that while Madeira has been DA, it has been very inefficiently managed.

She noted the numbers of juries pooled versus the number of cases that actually went to trial:

2006 - 64 juries - only 11 cases went to trial
2007 - 72 juries - only 16 cases went to trial
2008 - 59 juries - only 17 cases went to trial

Considering juries consist of 12 jurors & 2 alternates, that's approx 2,100 people that were called to serve, who had to rearrange their work schedules, etc...for naught.

In Arnold's response to what she's done the past 5 yrs, she noted that over the last 3 1/2 yrs Madeira + 7 assistant DA's only tried a total of 44 cases. During Gricar's tenure, *each* assistant DA tried approx 12 cases per year. Madeira's output has been squat.

Finally, during her response to the question of what changes she would make in the DA's office, Arnold noted that developing the staff was key. Madeira has one assistant DA who has only tried 3 cases in the past 3 1/2 yrs, with only partial success in *one* of those cases. She talked of the lack of mentoring and/or training under Madeira.

and there ya' go

Yes, if they are getting guilty pleas, it is actually a very good thing. Basically, if you can get what you want without a trial, that's great!

[Politigal]

Here is the third question and the candidates’ responses (http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/1264250.html).


I noticed that "delbertm" is still posting his comments about SPM under the article.

[Politigal]

One other piece of info that Arnold included in her responses to questions during the League of Womens Voters session --

She spoke of her own 18 yrs experience as an asst DA, 8 being specialized, and also working daily consultations & doing admin work in child abuse cases. She pointed out that SPM has 5 yrs experience in a DA's office, De Boef has 3 yrs, and this was the part I loved....that besides his 3 1/2 yrs as DA - Madeira had about 10 years for the AG "at a desk type job."

:thumbsup:

[Serendipitous1]

Stacy Parks Miller for Centre County District Attorney (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/centrecountyobama08/gGxJGX)

[Serendipitous1]

Use of drug snitches stretches the law’s intent (http://www.voicesweb.org/node/2488). Comments by MM, SPM, TdeB, etal.

[J. J. in Phila]

One other piece of info that Arnold included in her responses to questions during the League of Womens Voters session --

She spoke of her own 18 yrs experience as an asst DA, 8 being specialized, and also working daily consultations & doing admin work in child abuse cases. She pointed out that SPM has 5 yrs experience in a DA's office, De Boef has 3 yrs, and this was the part I loved....that besides his 3 1/2 yrs as DA - Madeira had about 10 years for the AG "at a desk type job."

:thumbsup:

Being a district attorney, especially in a larger county, is a "desk type job" to the extent that you supervising people and running an office with a large budget. Most of MM's problems have been administrative.

[Politigal]

In the question/answer sessions, each of the candidates have been asked to comment on the DUI Court (and also the possibility of a Drug Court)...here's a little background on the DUI Court:

http://wearecentralpa.com/content/fulltext/news?cid=59931

[Serendipitous1]

A 'colorful' view of the race (http://www.happyhourvalley.com/2009/05/04/centre-county-da-smackdown-09-is-underway/), from "a sport".

[Politigal]

A 'colorful' view of the race (http://www.happyhourvalley.com/2009/05/04/centre-county-da-smackdown-09-is-underway/), from "a sport".

pretty cute

[Politigal]

reiterating what J. Karen Arnold would do if elected DA, with regard to RG's case:

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2009/04/17/candidates_vow_to_find_missing.aspx

If she were voted into office, she would begin by reviewing the case file in detail from the start, examining witness statements, cell phone records and other reports, she wrote.

"I would then sit down with [Bellefonte Police Chief Shawn] Weaver and all officers, past and present, who have been involved at any level in the case, and talk to them in depth about why certain steps were taken or not taken," she wrote.

[J. J. in Phila]

reiterating what J. Karen Arnold would do if elected DA, with regard to RG's case:

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2009/04/17/candidates_vow_to_find_missing.aspx

If she were voted into office, she would begin by reviewing the case file in detail from the start, examining witness statements, cell phone records and other reports, she wrote.

"I would then sit down with [Bellefonte Police Chief Shawn] Weaver and all officers, past and present, who have been involved at any level in the case, and talk to them in depth about why certain steps were taken or not taken," she wrote.

Which is a restatement of what Madeira did in early 2006 and what the PSP-CIA review did in late 2006. Hint: It's 2009.

[2-B]

So using that logic, JJ, I guess you must find little use for cold case squads, since they go over old territory years after someone else has done so. And surprise! Cold case squads often find things those prior reviews of the case did not.

[J. J. in Phila]

So using that logic, JJ, I guess you must find little use for cold case squads, since they go over old territory years after someone else has done so. And surprise! Cold case squads often find things those prior reviews of the case did not.

First, frankly, a cold case squad would probably be better than any candidate running.

Second, no one actually running has suggested some new direction in the investigation. No candidate has actually suggested forming a cold case unit.

[Serendipitous1]

First, frankly, a cold case squad would probably be better than any candidate running.

Second, no one actually running has suggested some new direction in the investigation. No candidate has actually suggested forming a cold case unit.I do not necessarily disagree on the first point, although the DA must be an integral part of it. Your second point is factually incorrect.

[Serendipitous1]

District attorney candidates evaluate office’s accomplishment since Gricar (http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/1278002.html)

[Serendipitous1]

You are entitled to your opinion. And if you are a registered Democrat in CC, you even get to vote for your candidate.

I would point out however that, while MM is the only one to have prosecuted a case in recent years (because he is the incumbent DA), JKA is the only one who has not tried a case in recent years. If the idea is to put forward the Democratic candidate with the best chance of beating MM in the fall, I really do not see JKA as being that person.

[2-B]

Just trying to gather some facts here, S1. Can you tell us what jury cases SPM and TdB have been involved in during the last few years?

[Politigal]

JKA last worked as a prosecutor in 2006. SPM last worked as a prosecutor in 2001.

Right?

[Politigal]

I do not necessarily disagree on the first point, although the DA must be an integral part of it. Your second point is factually incorrect.

I pointed that out to him on Crimelibrary

[Serendipitous1]

Just trying to gather some facts here, S1. Can you tell us what jury cases SPM and TdB have been involved in during the last few years?I can...but am I the only one here who knows how to search?

[Serendipitous1]

JKA last worked as a prosecutor in 2006. SPM last worked as a prosecutor in 2001. Right?Do you believe a defense attorney need be any less prepared than a prosecutor?

[Politigal]

here's one of Stacy P. Miller's cases from recent news

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/20090423_Probation_is_extended_for_Lions__Bowman.h tml

A probation officer said in court yesterday that Bowman, in a meeting earlier this month, admitted to using marijuana twice, a violation of his probation that was scheduled to end next month. Defense attorney Stacy Parks Miller said there was confusion in that statement, and that Bowman clarified to the judge that he used the drug once but had thought about using it a second time this spring.

Bowman's probation was extended until April 2010.

So, I guess she lost?