April 17, 18, 19

[Texas48]

I still have no idea what twitter is all about and like you my kiddos did the myspace and facebook for me also..I am not so sure I can learn anymore took me months to get texting down...:biggrin:well..I still don't text...Too easy to just call. lol..I also have myspace at the insistance of grandkids. All I do is look at the pictures..I will leave twitter alone..lol

[aproudmom]

For REAL! He has been in the pout house for some time. Wonder if he is on bread and water? MOO

:laugh:omg poor guy I wonder myself I figured he was in time out shocked to hear he was back on NG...Dr perper has been on alot have not seen Kobe for awhile guess he got tired of the beatings from NG..LOL..J/K got to love her..I will hush about that subject before I get into trouble:wink:

[Texas48]

I know Tex right there with you I was so angry yesterday my poor keyboard was getting a beating...but trying to put the anger away and just see what happens the judge may say no..I really thought she would plea but not so sure now with these new motions coming from her defense..Wish she would just go bye bye also LWOP..JMO
I am still not sure someone did not know what was going on though maybe not until after the fact but it is really bothering me..but they say no one else knew about this...I still wonder was there not red flags going on in that home..but JMO and I read to much I guess even the eyes for lies love reading her stuff may not be right but good reading imo..I agree...good reading for me as well..

[aproudmom]

well..I still don't text...Too easy to just call. lol..I also have myspace at the insistance of grandkids. All I do is look at the pictures..I will leave twitter alone..lol

my kids do not answer though so I had to learn how to text..and myspace is pretty much the same as you..and not going to even go into the twitter thing..Ashton K was on today he out did CNN or something still have no idea what it is but don't care to even check it out..I guess in this case we did get a lot of information from people using it so kudos to those smart people that is how I heard about the blades:ohmy:

[dinojen]

The judge who was scheduled to hear Melissa Huckaby's arraignment may be replaced or taken off the case.

Judge Terrence Van Oss, the judge who was scheduled to hear an arraignment for Huckaby on April 24, could have a conflict of interest because he was the witness for the prosecution in a capital murder case in which Tom Testa, a San Joaquin County deputy district attorney, was the prosecutor, according to KCRA.com.

On April 24, Van Oss was scheduled to hear a possible motion for an independent autopsy and also a continued arraignment for Huckaby.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Huckaby-Judge-May-Be-Taken-Off-Case.html

Maybe we will hear something on this prior to the 24th.. especially if the judge steps down or is replaced..

[aproudmom]

I just seen this sorry if been posted but know a few was wondering why this judge would be ask to remove himself

http://www.kcra.com/news/19212602/detail.html


SAN JOAQUIN COUNTY, Calif. -- A judge who was scheduled to hear Melissa Huckaby's arraignment may be replaced or taken off the case.

Judge Terrence Van Oss, the judge who was scheduled to hear an arraignment for Huckaby on April 24, could have a conflict of interest because he was the witness for the prosecution in a capital murder case in which Tom Testa, a San Joaquin County deputy district attorney, was the prosecutor.
On April 24, Van Oss was scheduled to hear a possible motion for an independent autopsy and also a continued arraignment for Huckaby.

[aproudmom]

The judge who was scheduled to hear Melissa Huckaby's arraignment may be replaced or taken off the case.

Judge Terrence Van Oss, the judge who was scheduled to hear an arraignment for Huckaby on April 24, could have a conflict of interest because he was the witness for the prosecution in a capital murder case in which Tom Testa, a San Joaquin County deputy district attorney, was the prosecutor, according to KCRA.com.

On April 24, Van Oss was scheduled to hear a possible motion for an independent autopsy and also a continued arraignment for Huckaby.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Huckaby-Judge-May-Be-Taken-Off-Case.html

Maybe we will hear something on this prior to the 24th.. especially if the judge steps down or is replaced..


ok we must both be searching for udates sorry did not see your post until I posted it..

[dinojen]

ok we must both be searching for udates sorry did not see your post until I posted it..

Been googling what little brains I have on Behar, the DA and the judge trying to find some info on trials they have done.. that's my project for the day being hubby is working...lol... that and laundry:angry:

All I found out so far is Behar has no dings on his bar license and he got his law degree from Boalt at UC Berkeley... I think it said 1984.

Wonder if this Judge Van Oss will recuse himself:confused:

[lunchlady]

This case is pretty dramatic already and I predict it will get more so. The defendant and her attorneys are going to go all out from the looks of things. It will cause further distress to the Cantu family but I don't think MH gives a darn about that.

I still wonder if there was someone else involved, even though LE says there wasn't. Sandra could have been handed over to someone else, dead or alive, who then eventually threw her into the pond. I wonder about this not so much because MH's a woman, but because of the timeline and her chronic lack of money. Also she seems very passive and this is a very aggressive crime, but that's just an impression I have with no basis in fact. It only takes a few minutes to take a child's life.

I wonder if MH knows that her ex is trying to scoop up their daughter and take her away to Kansas or wherever the ex was when he was avoiding paying child support. If she knows then I think it will increase her determination to beat this rap completely somehow.

The judge's conflict of interest doesn't very significant to me. Is this very common to change judges for such a seemingly unrelated case? Are they worried about the roles being confused or something?

[juliekan]

I respectfully disagree. This second autopsy by the Defense is a relatively new ploy. We saw it in the Anthony case, but Caylee was returned to her "family" and it was their choice.

Are we now going to put every crime victim's family through the ordeal of exhuming their loved ones, just because of a ploy by the defense? What they are asking for, is unconscionable IMO.


To me, this sounds like the defense is already saying that whoever did the autopsy was "out to get" MH. When they did the autopsy, they were looking for cause of death. No one had been arrested. They had no idea what had happened to Sandra. Unless there is a precedent in Florida for this, it would be opening a can of worms. Everyone would be asking for second, maybe third autopsies. It would be like people shopping for experts to testify at trial. If the defense brought in it's OWN doctor for autopsy, it would seem to me that that doctor would have to be biased.

Now if the coroner does not have a solid base in child abuse evidence, the state should hire one and do a second autopsy. Of course, at this point, we don't know WHO was present for the autopsy. There could have been 2 doctors there, we don't really know. With the press this case generated, you would think the coroner's office would dot their i's and cross their t's.

I find it interesting that Behar is going after this evidence...as another poster a couple of pages back said, is it a given that she murdered Sandra, but just didn't do this to her? You would think that Behar would be trying to prove she didn't kill Sandra.

Maybe the sexual assault was the cause of death and that is why Behar is attacking that aspect of the case?

[dinojen]

As much as we dislike what defense attorney's do... if they didn't do it, they wouldn't be doing their jobs.. Sometimes I think it sucks to be a Defense Attorney or PD...but someone has to do it and it's all part of the judicial system.:confused:


Really irritates me that the dad crawled out of the woodwork to do interviews and claim he wants custody... when he's been avoiding for years to do his share in his daughter's life... JMO

[AmndaRcknwth]

If I were Sandra's mother, I would be comforted by Melissa saying I didn't do all those horrible things, it was an accident. i would be further comforted by them trying to find evidence, and get another expert opinion on things so that Sandra's memory won't be so horribly marred by demonic behavior.

If something seems unbelievable, it's worth another look at the evidence.


Rachel, you can't be serious. Being Maria you'd be COMFORTED by hearing some blahblahblah out of Melissa's mouth?

Face it. Melissa IS a demon.

NO WAY should they have to exhume and cut Sandra up any further. When she was autopsied, they did not know it was a woman, a freak or whatever. The autopsy is done without bias.

[AmndaRcknwth]

Think, people, think.

I know we have to be defenders of the defense, etc...

But truly??? A child was TORTURED!!!

Think. A foreign object. Any object, human or not, inserted into an 8 year old.

THAT IS TORTURE.

That is indefensible.

IMO.

[aproudmom]

Been googling what little brains I have on Behar, the DA and the judge trying to find some info on trials they have done.. that's my project for the day being hubby is working...lol... that and laundry:angry:

All I found out so far is Behar has no dings on his bar license and he got his law degree from Boalt at UC Berkeley... I think it said 1984.

Wonder if this Judge Van Oss will recuse himself:confused:

I tried to find stuff also on him and was not to much boy are we nosey:wink:
not sure about the judge you think it will be a conflict? he is a witness in a case the DA is over..so that is the conflict..humm have to look into that case I guess got me wondering now..

[dinojen]

By law she or whoever is still entitled to a fair trial and to have defense council... no matter how outraged the case makes you.

It's part of our justice system... nothing you can do about it.

[dinojen]

I tried to find stuff also on him and was not to much boy are we nosey:wink:
not sure about the judge you think it will be a conflict? he is a witness in a case the DA is over..so that is the conflict..humm have to look into that case I guess got me wondering now..

Hey...I'm determined... lol... don't know why... but just curious to see how they all operate their cases..

Will dink you if I find anything... promise.

First I better go do the breakfast dishes.. I'm such a bum today... geesh..

[AmndaRcknwth]

By law she or whoever is still entitled to a fair trial and to have defense council... no matter how outraged the case makes you.

It's part of our justice system... nothing you can do about it.

Thanks for the reality slap dj.

Fair trial, yes.

Sympathy and excuses, no.

Melissa tortured a little girl to death.

[dinojen]

Thanks for the reality slap dj.

Fair trial, yes.

Sympathy and excuses, no.

Melissa tortured a little girl to death.


I can think of many cases that have just been brutal on the family of the victim.. it happens much to often in today's times. But we have to go by the law.. and have faith in it.

I don't think it's so much sympathy some people are showing to MH.. I think it's just total shock that a woman could do this.. especially one that supposedly showed no signs she was capable of doing anything like this... JMO.

We will just have to trust our judicial system and hope they get it right.

Can totally understand your feelings though.

[nc1948]

I agree ... she has involvement but I don't think alone either
In which case, there is a sicko running around footloose and fancyfree and that is not right

Yet, unless she was truly scared for somebody .. why not give the name? (or names)

Her daughter is safe, right?

So hard to say what is going on .. she could really be a sicko and her experimentation went too far .. she panicked and we see the end result

But asking for the second autopsy tells me something .. so i will wait to pass 100% judgment at this point

Why do you think she did not do this alone. I see that several posters think she had help. I don't understand why so many believe that a woman cannot be evil enough to do this alone. Many woman have killed without assistance. If it were a man no one would question that he had help and would demand he be put under the jail but with a woman so many are looking for the person that made her do this and mental excuses why she did it. I may be wrong, and will apologize if I am, but I do believe that she and she alone did this. No one was treatening her or her child. (If they were, she would have screamed and blamed them immediately). I believe there are evil woman just like there a are evil men. We just give the women lots of slack and want to believe that some evil man forced her to do this. I don't think so.

[Keegan]

I can think of many cases that have just been brutal on the family of the victim.. it happens much to often in today's times. But we have to go by the law.. and have faith in it.

I don't think it's so much sympathy some people are showing to MH.. I think it's just total shock that a woman could do this.. especially one that supposedly showed no signs she was capable of doing anything like this... JMO.

We will just have to trust our judicial system and hope they get it right.

Can totally understand your feelings though.

Trust me. A woman is just as capable of being evil as a man. There have been other cases.

[nc1948]

we have heard a lot of experts say she was more than likely raped herself..I would hope these friends would let LE and her PD know these things if they are true...

If it is true and can be substantiated, does that mean she will get a lighter sentence if convicted> Lots of people have had horrible childhoods, abuse,rape, neglect. Is that now the excuse for sympathy when they murder someone?

[aproudmom]

Rachel, you can't be serious. Being Maria you'd be COMFORTED by hearing some blahblahblah out of Melissa's mouth?

Face it. Melissa IS a demon.

NO WAY should they have to exhume and cut Sandra up any further. When she was autopsied, they did not know it was a woman, a freak or whatever. The autopsy is done without bias.

I am just going to leave it up to the Judge.

[Keegan]

If it is true and can be substantiated, does that mean she will get a lighter sentence if convicted> Lots of people have had horrible childhoods, abuse,rape, neglect. Is that now the excuse for sympathy when they murder someone?

She sure set it up like she has had a horrible life. They fail to mention she had a job in the psycological field and learned tricks of the trade there. Cutting, rape, abuse, and how those things bring sympahty to her and attention. One thing we know, she loves her attention. Nothing is wrong with this woman except she is self involved in making herself get "high" on that sympathy and attention. She cried in court for herself...not for that baby. Look at me, I can hardly hold my head up I hurt so bad. Like we really care? Shoot her and get it done.

[AmndaRcknwth]

Melissa has been raped, according to several of her friends.

She was suicidal from 6th grade on.
She was a cutter.
She was raped by a cop while handcuffed in his back seat.

All REASONS to be psychologically and emotionally damaged.

But not EXCUSES to become a murderer/rapist of a child.

AND--- FGS 'we' never would be giving a man this much sympathy, and that makes me angry. Evil can be female, of course it can.

Remember John Couey? How many people said 'oh poor John' when he tortured and killed Jessie?

[Keegan]

Melissa has been raped, according to several of her friends.

She was suicidal from 6th grade on.
She was a cutter.
She was raped by a cop while handcuffed in his back seat.

All REASONS to be psychologically and emotionally damaged.

But not EXCUSES to become a murderer/rapist of a child.

AND--- FGS 'we' never would be giving a man this much sympathy, and that makes me angry. Evil can be female, of course it can.

Remember John Couey? How many people said 'oh poor John' when he tortured and killed Jessie?


Try to remember that emo was part of that generation.

[AmndaRcknwth]

I am just going to leave it up to the Judge.


I know.

It's not like we have any say anyways. I am just venting my outrage and trying not to type what I really feel. Which in God's eyes may be just as evil as Melissa.

[aproudmom]

If it is true and can be substantiated, does that mean she will get a lighter sentence if convicted> Lots of people have had horrible childhoods, abuse,rape, neglect. Is that now the excuse for sympathy when they murder someone?

I for one have not heard she ever said it but only friends coming out saying she told them she was raped so at this point I do not go by what someone who knows this person who never came forward about this at their word..if it was a cop that raped her sure it can be found out real fast if true....I have to see proof an as you we all have been through stuff in our life does not mean we kill a child many years later...and if true then I would say how dare them for not telling their parents or someone what had happened to their so called friend..jmo

[aproudmom]

I know.

It's not like we have any say anyways. I am just venting my outrage and trying not to type what I really feel. Which in God's eyes may be just as evil as Melissa.

oh you did not see my anger yesterday when I said my keyboard got a beating I meant it my keys are sticking from me being so angry..so I know how you feel..

[aproudmom]

Melissa has been raped, according to several of her friends.

She was suicidal from 6th grade on.
She was a cutter.
She was raped by a cop while handcuffed in his back seat.

All REASONS to be psychologically and emotionally damaged.

But not EXCUSES to become a murderer/rapist of a child.

AND--- FGS 'we' never would be giving a man this much sympathy, and that makes me angry. Evil can be female, of course it can.

Remember John Couey? How many people said 'oh poor John' when he tortured and killed Jessie?

:scared:how could we forget coloring book Couey was he found sane??IIRC yes so don't think it will be to easy for MLH to say she did not know what she was doing..she covered it up she knew it was wrong..not insanity to me ..and yes we do have a double standard and it needs to change

[nc1948]

She sure set it up like she has had a horrible life. They fail to mention she had a job in the psycological field and learned tricks of the trade there. Cutting, rape, abuse, and how those things bring sympahty to her and attention. One thing we know, she loves her attention. Nothing is wrong with this woman except she is self involved in making herself get "high" on that sympathy and attention. She cried in court for herself...not for that baby. Look at me, I can hardly hold my head up I hurt so bad. Like we really care? Shoot her and get it done.

Thanks Keegan, refreshing to see that I am not the only one not buying into the poor me defense. I really get upset with all the ----someone else made her do it, she had been raped, she had a mental problem. She is evil, I think she did it alone, lots of people are raped and do not murder, lots of people have horrid childhoods and do not kill, lots of people have mental illnesses and do not torture a child. There is no excuse for what she did.
NONE

[Texas48]

Hey... I don't have the energy I don't think to learn another technical internet whatever...:w00t: Bad enough I played with my cell phone and now everytime I get a email it sends me a text message on my phone and for the life of me I can't figure out how to stop it.. and it isn't even a Blackberry....:cursing:That is so funny dino..My kids gave me a blackberry(expensive) for Xmas last year and all I know is to make just a plain ole call...Heck..my old cell phone was good I thought..but kids/grandkids insist I keep up w/the times..yea..right..I'll take the *old* ways any old time. lol..I do good turning on and off the computer.

[Texas48]

:laugh:omg poor guy I wonder myself I figured he was in time out shocked to hear he was back on NG...Dr perper has been on alot have not seen Kobe for awhile guess he got tired of the beatings from NG..LOL..J/K got to love her..I will hush about that subject before I get into trouble:wink:I'll say alittle so I don't get in trouble as well mom..lol..sorry CW..I think Kobe was banned from NG...I have to say..I kinda like ole Dr Perper...was not so much of a fan of Kobe..:thumbsup:

[aproudmom]

Try to remember that emo was part of that generation.

emo? what is that heard of it on myspace layouts..:unsure:

[Texas48]

my kids do not answer though so I had to learn how to text..and myspace is pretty much the same as you..and not going to even go into the twitter thing..Ashton K was on today he out did CNN or something still have no idea what it is but don't care to even check it out..I guess in this case we did get a lot of information from people using it so kudos to those smart people that is how I heard about the blades:ohmy:Then I'll leave to you and whoever can do twitter and then post the info here for me cause I put my foot down and am not going to twitter. NO.:scared:of twitter

[aproudmom]

I'll say alittle so I don't get in trouble as well mom..lol..sorry CW..I think Kobe was banned from NG...I have to say..I kinda like ole Dr Perper...was not so much of a fan of Kobe..:thumbsup:

lol I hate it when they get on and change their story when they are all of a sudden on a case such as Kobe...anyone think this monster will end up with a dream team...she sure is going to need one IMO...not so sure any dream team can get her off but some like to put their name on these cases..

[Keegan]

emo? what is that heard of it on myspace layouts..:unsure:

Emo stands for Emotional Mental Outbreaks. It is a mixture of emo music (usually sad and most speak of suicide and dying). Often groups form around emo in schools and the cutting begins. They are usually very self absorbed and do so for attention. They consider themselves to be hard core emotionalists.

[aproudmom]

Hey... I don't have the energy I don't think to learn another technical internet whatever...:w00t: Bad enough I played with my cell phone and now everytime I get a email it sends me a text message on my phone and for the life of me I can't figure out how to stop it.. and it isn't even a Blackberry....:cursing:

:laugh:omg sorry had to laugh on that one..

[Texas48]

:scared:Think, people, think.

I know we have to be defenders of the defense, etc...

But truly??? A child was TORTURED!!!

Think. A foreign object. Any object, human or not, inserted into an 8 year old.

THAT IS TORTURE.

That is indefensible.

IMO.and we don't even know what extent the *torture* was..yet...Honestly I am not sure I want to know. I have a feeling the details of this case is going to knock us off our feet...just a feeling.:scared:

[Texas48]

By law she or whoever is still entitled to a fair trial and to have defense council... no matter how outraged the case makes you.

It's part of our justice system... nothing you can do about it.
very true dino..and if MH tells her attorney that she is guilty? Will he leave it at that or what?

[Mamie]

That is so funny dino..My kids gave me a blackberry(expensive) for Xmas last year and all I know is to make just a plain ole call...Heck..my old cell phone was good I thought..but kids/grandkids insist I keep up w/the times..yea..right..I'll take the *old* ways any old time. lol..I do good turning on and off the computer.


You and me both! I love my computer at home and use one at work but when it comes to all that cell phone stuff and blackberry stuff-----life was much simpler years ago. And I hate going into the grocery store and listening to everyone's conversations on their cell phones. Who cares???!! I certainly don't.

[aproudmom]

No no Mom...I KNOW you are right and I know u have a heart the size of...lets say Texas....I know this case as most likely torn your heart into...I can understand exactly what u are saying...and you are right..My heart just hurts..and I quess I would like for MH's face never to be shown again..for Sandra's mother/familys sake. Thats my heart speaking.

you want to know what I am truly worried about the ME not being able to give the date this trauma was inflicted so they try to say she could have been molested before this date not by MH and as we know they will point at her loved ones or the ones she was close to and fgs do I want to see them victimized anymore than they have been..I pray they have her talking or evidence it happened that day and can say it to a 100 percent of doubt MH did this on that day..this ME is not bias I do agree with that but I don't know the autopsy report so I am not sure how he came to the conclusion he did...have we heard if the tox has come back yet??

[Texas48]

Why do you think she did not do this alone. I see that several posters think she had help. I don't understand why so many believe that a woman cannot be evil enough to do this alone. Many woman have killed without assistance. If it were a man no one would question that he had help and would demand he be put under the jail but with a woman so many are looking for the person that made her do this and mental excuses why she did it. I may be wrong, and will apologize if I am, but I do believe that she and she alone did this. No one was treatening her or her child. (If they were, she would have screamed and blamed them immediately). I believe there are evil woman just like there a are evil men. We just give the women lots of slack and want to believe that some evil man forced her to do this. I don't think so.Good post..I also don't believe MH had *help*...I do believe a female can be as much of a monster as any male. Don't care if she is a mother or a sunday school teacher. Shocked..yes......Unbelievable..NO. jmo

[Texas48]

I am just going to leave it up to the Judge.
You and me both mom..cause I don't think the judge would be willing to listen to us..lol.:biggrin:

[Texas48]

Melissa has been raped, according to several of her friends.

She was suicidal from 6th grade on.
She was a cutter.
She was raped by a cop while handcuffed in his back seat.

All REASONS to be psychologically and emotionally damaged.

But not EXCUSES to become a murderer/rapist of a child.

AND--- FGS 'we' never would be giving a man this much sympathy, and that makes me angry. Evil can be female, of course it can.

Remember John Couey? How many people said 'oh poor John' when he tortured and killed Jessie?
None..plain and simple and to the point.

[Texas48]

oh you did not see my anger yesterday when I said my keyboard got a beating I meant it my keys are sticking from me being so angry..so I know how you feel..I'm willing to bet we ALL feel the same way..pure anger.

[aproudmom]

You and me both! I love my computer at home and use one at work but when it comes to all that cell phone stuff and blackberry stuff-----life was much simpler years ago. And I hate going into the grocery store and listening to everyone's conversations on their cell phones. Who cares???!! I certainly don't.

I will never forget someone was chatting away thought they were talking to me..they had in one of those ear things for their cell phone..I felt like a idiot..I finally said are you talking to me..:biggrin:
I only got my kids phones so I knew were they were and could always get them..my youngest plays a lot of sports so wanted to know he at least had a phone if some creepy person was messing with him and he has used it for that purpose before..plus they can pick up pings and the worrier I am I told them do not ever shut it off so I can find you if something did happen..shocked my kids are not scared to walk out the door..I am very over protective but they have thanked me they see what can happen I even told my son about this case and to see why I say never trust anyone..we never thought this was going to be a women we had all these men convicted from very early on..

[Ninja108]

Cases like MH's are rare. Maybe she didn't do it alone. That's the only suggestion I see as being valid. The rest IMO, that she's afraid of someone, she's covering for some else etc, all have to do with our disbelief that a woman could commit a crime such as this to a child. IMO and with all due respect, if the suspect arrested had been Sinclair, a lot of these posts wouldn't exist.
While it's true most women that commit sexual crimes against children do so with a man vs. alone, women can and have raped,kidnapped, shot, stabbed and pretty much every other horrible thing you can do to human beings. Some make most of the men on death row look like weaklings by comparsion. Women don't commit violent crime as much as men, that's true. But as we've seen from many trials on CTV, they are more than capable.

[aproudmom]

Not me, for sure, because it was 100% believable, and expected. He was a registered pedophile, hiding out in a trailer near the property, and Jessica's body was found in the rockpile next to the trailer.

No surprise - whatsoever - in that case.

don't forget she was in there 2 times when they came to ask about JL she could have been saved I will never forget her or her case it was the sadest thing..and they had her dad convicted for some time and he had nothing to do with it..god bless him he just had another child..and fights for other kids..I am sure these cases really gets to him he is a real fighter IMO

[aproudmom]

Cases like MH's are rare. Maybe she didn't do it alone. That's the only suggestion I see as being valid. The rest IMO, that she's afraid of someone, she's covering for some else etc, all have to do with our disbelief that a woman could commit a crime such as this to a child. IMO and with all due respect, if the suspect arrested had been Sinclair, a lot of these posts wouldn't exist.
While it's true most women that commit sexual crimes against children do so with a man vs. alone, women can and have raped,kidnapped, shot, stabbed and pretty much every other horrible thing you can do to human beings. Some make most of the men on death row look like weaklings by comparsion. Women don't commit violent crime as much as men, that's true. But as we've seen from many trials on CTV, they are more than capable.

Sorry but he is still under my radar..has been from the night he was arrested..since it is JMO I will just say JMO 2 times..and agree I watch all the live trials and see it more and more everyday

[aproudmom]

to much law lingo for me..don't know if this is the conflict or something else
Judge Terrence Van Oss witness for the prosecution in a capital murder case

http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/399/972/546004/

2
* This case concerns the 1980 murder of Vinod "Pete" Patel by Blufford Hayes, Jr. Patel was the resident hotel manager of the Rice Motel in Stockton, California. Hayes was staying in Room 15 of the motel with his sister, Barbara Lord. Hayes once resided at the motel himself, but had been evicted when he stopped paying rent. Several days before Patel's death, Patel had asked the police to arrest Hayes for trespassing because he had broken into his former room. Officers found Hayes in his former room with fresh needle marks on his arm; he admitted to breaking in, but said he intended to pay rent as soon as he could. The police arrested him for trespassing and for being under the influence of a controlled substance.


* In this case, the State knowingly presented false evidence to the jury and made false representations to the trial judge as to whether the State had agreed not to prosecute James on his pending felony charges. James's attorney testified in federal court that there had been a deal between himself and then-Deputy District Attorney Terrence Van Oss. The district court specifically found

[aproudmom]

Wow ProudMom that sounds very possible. All that matters is that they will have a fair trial and for the Judge to dismiss himself from this case it gives me hope no matter what the Judge's reasoning.
~JUSTICE FOR LITTLE SANDRA CANTU~

that is the only case I can find that would be the conflict it dates back pretty far if there is another conflict I can not find the case I know dino is good at finding stuff if this is not the conflict maybe she will find more...

[forensicfan]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517054,00.html

I don't know if anyone else saw this today or not but I wonder if the court will go ahead with this (exhuming her body).

I am curious to know what LE have that leads them to concur they have the right person. I do remember they were investigating the church and had questioned the pastor for 3 hours prior to arresting Melissa so I am under the impression they have something more than her statements but I'm wondering what.

[aproudmom]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517054,00.html

I don't know if anyone else saw this today or not but I wonder if the court will go ahead with this (exhuming her body).

I am curious to know what LE have that leads them to concur they have the right person. I do remember they were investigating the church and had questioned the pastor for 3 hours prior to arresting Melissa so I am under the impression they have something more than her statements but I'm wondering what.

I think we are all wondering just what it is they have..and if they just put these charges due to the autopsy or also evidence or questioning..we really have no idea what they have and don't have

[aproudmom]

The initial autopsy was done by an independant examiner.

That tells me that the LE/prosecutors were thinking ahead of whichever defense was to be defending MH as they most likely full well knew in advance what the defense would plan to do.

It also shows me that the LE/prosecutors had enough compassion for that little girl and her family to seek an independant examiner to avoid what the defense it trying to do at this point.
It is absolutely disgusting to me that the defense set aside the facts discovered by an independant/unbiased examiner and would instead seek to further harrass/molest the body of that innocent little girl.
JMO

So this is a independent examiner??I did not catch that I just thought it was the ME in that county which would still not be bias imo

[MoonHarvest]

Wow
http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Huckaby%20told%20friends%20she%20was%20raped%20=&page_label=home&id=2341927-Huckaby+told+friends+she+was+raped&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

Huckaby was a cutter and was said to have been raped by a police officer.

Sorry if this has been posted.

[aproudmom]

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Huckaby%20told%20friends%20she%20was%20raped%20=&page_label=home&id=2341927-Huckaby+told+friends+she+was+raped&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

They all said the rape occurred at a time when Huckaby’s life began to spiral downward.

Her first serious boyfriend had moved away, which broke her heart.

Her best friend had moved away to college.

Huckaby had trouble getting along with her family, said the friends.

Private letters shared by one source indicate Huckaby was suicidal, and had been since the sixth grade.

According to a passage one of her friends read over the phone, the letter dated May 20, 1999, read: “I just wasn’t meant to live, I guess. No one wants me or even cares if I live or not, and I’m just in the way,

a lot of people have been through all of the above and they never turn into a killer..I for one wonder why they want their names withheld if they want to speak out about why MH may have done this could not be to good of friends to keep this to them self for all this time and going to be hard to find a jury that has not had to deal with the same things and never committed a horrific crime as she has been charged with ...sorry no crying from me here.JMO.:thumbdown:

Well I am off here for awhile everyone have a wonderful afternoon and evening...

[cali650]

Thanks Keegan, refreshing to see that I am not the only one not buying into the poor me defense.
(edit)


Huh?

It appears to me that very few are *buying* the "poor me defense."

[Texas48]

lol I hate it when they get on and change their story when they are all of a sudden on a case such as Kobe...anyone think this monster will end up with a dream team...she sure is going to need one IMO...not so sure any dream team can get her off but some like to put their name on these cases..This is why I said I hope this does not turn into the circus that the other case has been..and I bet there are attorneys who will be jumping up and down to get a case like this....Just imagine....

[aproudmom]

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.d...NEWS/904170320

Most homicide cases involve a single, independent pathologist's report such as the one performed by the San Joaquin County Coroner's Office...

OK I may have misunderstood this and then again maybe not.
For the sake of argument here:
My friends parents own a tow truck company. They bid for the CHP and police tows etc...
They are an independant company and are required to pay for their own seperate business filings, insurance, liability etc...
They place bids for the position. (Now there are so many tow companies that they are on rotation calls etc...)
Is it not typically the same in the case of a Dr. who does work for the county?
It is my understanding that the Medical professional is an independant regardless if they are working for the county or not.
The medical professional is under strict guidelines and rules that cannot place them under any type of umbrella protection by the state period.
They are independant.
(Same situation applies with the medical professionals who work at the prisons etc...)
My husband and I are discussing and debating this issue as I type. LOL

hey I will not argue over it I for one see no bias just know what they are trying to do say they can not prove MH did this to her it could have been before her death..we know the defense will pull every card they can:angry:

[Texas48]

Emo stands for Emotional Mental Outbreaks. It is a mixture of emo music (usually sad and most speak of suicide and dying). Often groups form around emo in schools and the cutting begins. They are usually very self absorbed and do so for attention. They consider themselves to be hard core emotionalists.
what in the world am I reading here Keegan..Oh My goodness. you are serious aren't you...:scared:I don't want to twitter and don't want any emo music..:ohmy:

[aproudmom]

Huh?

It appears to me that very few are *buying* the "poor me defense."

o please put me into that not buying poor me defense...I am right there with you as so many are..

[aproudmom]

I agree 100%. I was just trying to figure it all outloud with ya. LOL
BBL too. I have to help my Mother move today :(
Have a good day :)

you have a great day talk to you later on..you make some great points

[aproudmom]

Emo stands for Emotional Mental Outbreaks. It is a mixture of emo music (usually sad and most speak of suicide and dying). Often groups form around emo in schools and the cutting begins. They are usually very self absorbed and do so for attention. They consider themselves to be hard core emotionalists.

WOW no way ok my sons friend said it is not used by killers it is more like o my parents dont get along with me..POOR ME.. so thanks kinda had me freaking out since I had seen alot of emo layouts on myspace..

[Texas48]

The initial autopsy was done by an independant examiner.

That tells me that the LE/prosecutors were thinking ahead of whichever defense was to be defending MH as they most likely full well knew in advance what the defense would plan to do.

It also shows me that the LE/prosecutors had enough compassion for that little girl and her family to seek an independant examiner to avoid what the defense it trying to do at this point.
It is absolutely disgusting to me that the defense set aside the facts discovered by an independant/unbiased examiner and would instead seek to further harrass/molest the body of that innocent little girl.
JMO
Excellent post..

[aproudmom]

what in the world am I reading here Keegan..Oh My goodness. you are serious aren't you...:scared:I don't want to twitter and don't want any emo music..:ohmy:

just hit emo layouts and you will see tons of them for your myspace page...:biggrin:

[Texas48]

I think we are all wondering just what it is they have..and if they just put these charges due to the autopsy or also evidence or questioning..we really have no idea what they have and don't haveYour right..we have no idea mom...but...IMO the charges were brought by both..ME reports and evidence. Before this is over I think everyones eyes will be popping...I have a feeling its going to be a case like no other..time will tell.:ohmy:

[Texas48]

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Huckaby%20told%20friends%20she%20was%20raped%20=&page_label=home&id=2341927-Huckaby+told+friends+she+was+raped&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

They all said the rape occurred at a time when Huckaby’s life began to spiral downward.

Her first serious boyfriend had moved away, which broke her heart.

Her best friend had moved away to college.

Huckaby had trouble getting along with her family, said the friends.

Private letters shared by one source indicate Huckaby was suicidal, and had been since the sixth grade.

According to a passage one of her friends read over the phone, the letter dated May 20, 1999, read: “I just wasn’t meant to live, I guess. No one wants me or even cares if I live or not, and I’m just in the way,

a lot of people have been through all of the above and they never turn into a killer..I for one wonder why they want their names withheld if they want to speak out about why MH may have done this could not be to good of friends to keep this to them self for all this time and going to be hard to find a jury that has not had to deal with the same things and never committed a horrific crime as she has been charged with ...sorry no crying from me here.JMO.:thumbdown:

Well I am off here for awhile everyone have a wonderful afternoon and evening...very good post mom..and..see ya

[Texas48]

o please put me into that not buying poor me defense...I am right there with you as so many are..
come sit by me mom...there is plenty of room.

[dinojen]

Still trying to find something about Behar and Van Oss..
Wonder what case Testra prosecuted that Judge Van Oss was a witness, still haven't figured that out... but I'm working on it.

Testa, a veteran prosecutor who has put two men on death row and countless others in prison for life, said he wants to fast-track Huckaby’s case, making it a priority because he doesn’t like cases like these “to drag on forever.”

He intends to ask the judge for a “pretrial publicity order,” commonly called a gag order, which prevents anybody involved in the case – like attorneys, investigators and witnesses – from talking outside of court to the media.

Too much talking out of turn could result in a change of venue to another county, he said. Among other logistic complications, trying it elsewhere would be expensive to taxpayers, he said.

The county would have to pay hotel, transportation and meals for the judge, bailiffs, attorneys and witnesses. Testa has tried cases out of town, including that of Wesley Shermantine, one of two death sentences Testa won.

Most recently, Testa won a death sentence against William Jennings Choyce, in a cold case investigation into the serial killer who raped and murdered three prostitutes more than a decade ago.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090413/A_NEWS/90413008

[sunstar]

The initial autopsy was done by an independant examiner.

That tells me that the LE/prosecutors were thinking ahead of whichever defense was to be defending MH as they most likely full well knew in advance what the defense would plan to do.

It also shows me that the LE/prosecutors had enough compassion for that little girl and her family to seek an independant examiner to avoid what the defense it trying to do at this point.
It is absolutely disgusting to me that the defense set aside the facts discovered by an independant/unbiased examiner and would instead seek to further harrass/molest the body of that innocent little girl.
JMO
This is very troubling to me too. Is the defense going to say that Sandra wasn't molested with a foreign object, or that she voluntarily consented? There has to be substantial evidence that she was violated for the ME to come to his conclusions, and we've all seen the last video of her just prior to being abducted, so when and by whom would this molestation have taken place, if not by the killer? :mad: Let this precious child rest in peace. MOO

[aproudmom]

Wow
http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Huckaby%20told%20friends%20she%20was%20raped%20=&page_label=home&id=2341927-Huckaby+told+friends+she+was+raped&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

Huckaby was a cutter and was said to have been raped by a police officer.

Sorry if this has been posted.

yeah sure if we did a poll 90% of us would have been through these things...I know I have..

They all said the rape occurred at a time when Huckaby’s life began to spiral downward.
Not even going to go into this

Her first serious boyfriend had moved away, which broke her heart.
Poor her yeah had that happen many times

Her best friend had moved away to college.
poor her had it happen a lot since I was a single mom and did not go off to college

Huckaby had trouble getting along with her family, said the friends.
who does not have problems at some point in their life with their parents..I did when I was a teen also thought I knew everything

Private letters shared by one source indicate Huckaby was suicidal, and had been since the sixth grade.
suffer from depression have for 15 yrs

bad divorce
been there done that

No child support
been there done that for 18yrs..

trouble finding a job at some point
been there done that also

Cutting
nope have not been there before

criminal record
nope not even a speeding ticket

now I am sure a lot of people have been through all of the above and dealt with it and lead a life not of crime and ending up killing someone a child which is even worse IMO

[fastpitch]

There are women that beat and abuse children everyday. Some of them are their own children, but some of them are children in their care.

I think that women that abuse, have almost always been abused themselves - and they want others to hurt, like they hurt.

But, I bet a vast majority of abused women do not grow up to kill children.

Just as many of the men in prison were dealt a crummy hand when they were little, they had a choice whether to follow in those footsteps or not.

In IL. a few years ago, there was a crazy woman (moo) named Amanda Hamm that let her BF talk her into letting her 3 kids drown in the car, in the lake. She was found guilty of the crime, but only served 5 years in prison. IIRC.

I am tired of the suffering of little children. Sandra was precious and pure. Her killer is pure evil. There should be no second chances, if this woman is convicted of the crime.

[aproudmom]

Still trying to find something about Behar and Van Oss..
Wonder what case Testra prosecuted that Judge Van Oss was a witness, still haven't figured that out... but I'm working on it.

Testa, a veteran prosecutor who has put two men on death row and countless others in prison for life, said he wants to fast-track Huckaby’s case, making it a priority because he doesn’t like cases like these “to drag on forever.”

He intends to ask the judge for a “pretrial publicity order,” commonly called a gag order, which prevents anybody involved in the case – like attorneys, investigators and witnesses – from talking outside of court to the media.

Too much talking out of turn could result in a change of venue to another county, he said. Among other logistic complications, trying it elsewhere would be expensive to taxpayers, he said.

The county would have to pay hotel, transportation and meals for the judge, bailiffs, attorneys and witnesses. Testa has tried cases out of town, including that of Wesley Shermantine, one of two death sentences Testa won.

Most recently, Testa won a death sentence against William Jennings Choyce, in a cold case investigation into the serial killer who raped and murdered three prostitutes more than a decade ago.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090413/A_NEWS/90413008

Posted the only case I could find same one you just posted about

[aproudmom]

come sit by me mom...there is plenty of room.

move on over cause I need a seat..still trying to get off here but darn then I see new post..lol

[MoonHarvest]

yeah sure if we did a poll 90% of us would have been through these things...I know I have..

They all said the rape occurred at a time when Huckaby’s life began to spiral downward.
Not even going to go into this

Her first serious boyfriend had moved away, which broke her heart.
Poor her yeah had that happen many times

Her best friend had moved away to college.
poor her had it happen a lot since I was a single mom and did not go off to college

Huckaby had trouble getting along with her family, said the friends.
who does not have problems at some point in their life with their parents..I did when I was a teen also thought I knew everything

Private letters shared by one source indicate Huckaby was suicidal, and had been since the sixth grade.
suffer from depression have for 15 yrs

bad divorce
been there done that

No child support
been there done that for 18yrs..

trouble finding a job at some point
been there done that also

Cutting
nope have not been there before

criminal record
nope not even a speeding ticket

now I am sure a lot of people have been through all of the above and dealt with it and lead a life not of crime and ending up killing someone a child which is even worse IMO

It's not a contest.


It's in our best interest to try to understand the path to these crimes. I think most likely with intervention this path could have been headed off. Everyone who knew this woman has reported that she was off-course, even the courts apparently wanted her to get mental help.

I keep wondering was her Mother coming for a visit a trigger? Not that it matters, just curious as to what may have set this woman off.

[dinojen]

yeah sure if we did a poll 90% of us would have been through these things...I know I have..

They all said the rape occurred at a time when Huckaby’s life began to spiral downward.
Not even going to go into this

Her first serious boyfriend had moved away, which broke her heart.
Poor her yeah had that happen many times

Her best friend had moved away to college.
poor her had it happen a lot since I was a single mom and did not go off to college

Huckaby had trouble getting along with her family, said the friends.
who does not have problems at some point in their life with their parents..I did when I was a teen also thought I knew everything

Private letters shared by one source indicate Huckaby was suicidal, and had been since the sixth grade.
suffer from depression have for 15 yrs

bad divorce
been there done that

No child support
been there done that for 18yrs..

trouble finding a job at some point
been there done that also

Cutting
nope have not been there before

criminal record
nope not even a speeding ticket

now I am sure a lot of people have been through all of the above and dealt with it and lead a life not of crime and ending up killing someone a child which is even worse IMO

I'm sure many people have been through the above things and made it just fine... but there is always that maybe 10% out of the 90% that don't...

Not defending MH but there are always some that slip by unnoticed that they need help or are going to turn out bad...

[aproudmom]

It's not a contest.


It's in our best interest to try to understand the path to these crimes. I think most likely with intervention this path could have been headed off. Everyone who knew this woman has reported that she was off-course, even the courts apparently wanted her to get mental help.

I keep wondering was her Mother coming for a visit a trigger? Not that it matters, just curious as to what may have set this woman off.

Suicidal from the sixth grade onwards ?
Where was this girl's family is my question

did not say it was a contest saying we have all lived through many of those things and much worse..jmo

[aproudmom]

I'm sure many people have been through the above things and made it just fine... but there is always that maybe 10% out of the 90% that don't...

Not defending MH but there are always some that slip by unnoticed that they need help or are going to turn out bad...

ok just giving my opinion..forget my post if I knew how to just delete it I would..just meant alot of people go through alot worse and this never happens...

[MoonHarvest]

Suicidal from the sixth grade onwards ?
Where was this girl's family is my question

did not say it was a contest saying we have all lived through many of those things and much worse..jmo

Okay.

Yes many have. But I think there are varying factors too. For one, some have other loved ones who fill in the voids. It sounds like this girl didn't.

Yes, suicidal thinking in the sixth grade says quite a lot. That's a flag. What was her family doing/thinking?

[dinojen]

Perfect example is Patrick Scarpaci... my daughter went to school with him since kindergarten.. was a good friend.. always a little odd.. but he was very very likeable. He had some issues which his parents addressed..and he seemed fine. They made it through school together almost always in the same classes... his Mom Kathy worked at the local bookstore and taught a study group class at the high school my daughter was in her class, and also worked with the special ed kids..she loved her... always brought lemon sandwich cookies for the class...lol.

I was soaking in the bathtub after a late late Xmas party trying to recover to attend another one for my company that night when my daughter came breaking through the door screaming Mrs. Scarpaci is dead..she's dead...and they are saying Pat did it... she was hysterical..

Her dad calmed her down... I got on the internet and went to our local city's news board.. and there was Pat's picture.. he had killed his Mom, put her in a ice cooler and in the trunk of her car.

I guess they had talked to him about getting help.. he had spent some time in a mental residency and was on meds.. the parents thought he should return and the hospital said no he's fine... this was right before he killed his Mom.. he just slipped through the cracks.. tragic loss..

After her death.. he's almost comatose... doesn't know he did it.. and is at Atascadero State Mental Hospital.:crying:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/01/02/MN143957.DTL



He really really was a sweet nice kid... it does happen..

[aproudmom]

Okay.

Yes many have. But I think there are varying factors too. For one, some have other loved ones who fill in the voids. It sounds like this girl didn't.

Yes, suicidal thinking in the sixth grade says quite a lot. That's a flag. What was her family doing/thinking?

okay just not going into it anymore..yes her family and these so called friends maybe should have done something before it got to this...

[dinojen]

I got lost (as a receiver of CS) in the system for over a yr., was at the same address, same #. I didn't lose myself, the system lost me. By the time I barged uninvited to the judges courtroom and he heard from me( and gave me a free court appointed att) I wasn't getting nothing. This man/Madison's father moved, the murderer moved, different states, different jobs, different child support systems, (which sucks big time to begin with). Be careful, Britian judged Susan by her looks. How do you know she didn't tell an untruth? He crawled out of the woodwork? What should he have done? The media would have found and hound him. So he came out in the open, now that's wrong. If he hid, would that be a problem too?


He did hide,.. he hid from paying to support his child. I have no tolerance for that. Every chance I get when I get orders to withhold.. I get them to corporate the next day.. there is no reason for it. JMO..

One poster on here think it was Riverwalk showed exactly how many times he was served.. It just ticks me off that men and women don't support their kids..

Just find it odd also.. he can't pay support for all these years but he wants custody... if I was Madison's Grandma.. he would be in for a hell of a fight. Again... jmvho

[kelloggirl]

Count me in in the Ice Cold camp. It makes me nauseous to read all the seeming excuses Melissa and her camp are throwing out. Poor, poor Melissa. She couldn't have done this alone, she's just a woman. There, there. Perhaps we should just let her go, the poor dear has been through so much. I'm exaggerating, but I don't recall such soul-searching going on for John Couey or Joseph Duncan III or other men who kill children.

IMO, she's a world-class attention seeker and manipulator. She'll say and do whatever she needs to say or do to get people to feel sorry for her, including swallowing razor blades (probably to get out of talking to LE once the body was found).

As for the autopsy, a huge percentage of autopsies are done without having defense present, since it often takes days, weeks, months, years, to arrest someone. That's why the ME is an independent agency. That's why reports, notes, records, photographs exist to document the process and findings. This request for exhumation is appalling.

[MoonHarvest]

Perfect example is Patrick Scarpaci... my daughter went to school with him since kindergarten.. was a good friend.. always a little odd.. but he was very very likeable. He had some issues which his parents addressed..and he seemed fine. They made it through school together almost always in the same classes... his Mom Kathy worked at the local bookstore and taught a study group class at the high school my daughter was in her class, and also worked with the special ed kids..she loved her... always brought lemon sandwich cookies for the class...lol.

I was soaking in the bathtub after a late late Xmas party trying to recover to attend another one for my company that night when my daughter came breaking through the door screaming Mrs. Scarpaci is dead..she's dead...and they are saying Pat did it... she was hysterical..

Her dad calmed her down... I got on the internet and went to our local city's news board.. and there was Pat's picture.. he had killed his Mom, put her in a ice cooler and in the trunk of her car.

I guess they had talked to him about getting help.. he had spent some time in a mental residency and was on meds.. the parents thought he should return and the hospital said no he's fine... this was right before he killed his Mom.. he just slipped through the cracks.. tragic loss..

After her death.. he's almost comatose... doesn't know he did it.. and is at Atascadero State Mental Hospital.:crying:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/01/02/MN143957.DTL



He really really was a sweet nice kid... it does happen..

That's heart breaking.:(

[MoonHarvest]

Count me in in the Ice Cold camp. It makes me nauseous to read all the seeming excuses Melissa and her camp are throwing out. Poor, poor Melissa. She couldn't have done this alone, she's just a woman. There, there. Perhaps we should just let her go, the poor dear has been through so much. I'm exaggerating, but I don't recall such soul-searching going on for John Couey or Joseph Duncan III or other men who kill children.

IMO, she's a world-class attention seeker and manipulator. She'll say and do whatever she needs to say or do to get people to feel sorry for her, including swallowing razor blades (probably to get out of talking to LE once the body was found).

As for the autopsy, a huge percentage of autopsies are done without having defense present, since it often takes days, weeks, months, years, to arrest someone. That's why the ME is an independent agency. That's why reports, notes, records, photographs exist to document the process and findings. This request for exhumation is appalling.

Look, try to find a little sympathy ... there is fall out for those around her too. Imagine if someone close to you did something like this. Wouldn't you be shocked?

[dinojen]

That's heart breaking.:(

Yeah it was...and still is.. His Mom was the best...:sad:

One of their friends went not to long ago to see him.. and it's not good.. he's just kind of a shell.. very sad...

[Candlelight]

You don't have kids, do you?

Snazzy...I agree 100%!!!!! At least lets all say a prayer she does not.
SOme people should not be able to reproduce...Melissa and others.....sickos...sickos...

For Sandra :rose:

[doctor_J]

The so-called 6th grade suicide note doesn't sound serious to me. Sounds like a child feeling sorry for herself and wanting attention. I wrote a very similiar note at 11 saying everyone would be better off if I were dead,etc,. All because my family forgot my birthday and I didn't get a gift. BOO HOO.

Remember, we only have MH's word for much of this, like the rape by the police officer. It's easy for some to forget she's a liar and attention seeker. Sounds like an awfully dramatic, poor poor me story, never reported, just liked it so much (the drama of the story), she told it to 3 friends, none of which took it seriously enough to report it to anyone in authority. All these stories sound so much like another pathological liar we have all heard of recently.

If the story comes from noone but MH, I choose not to believe it.
BTW, there was a rape and murder of a teenager by a patrol officer about that time that make national news. May have given her the idea to get sympathy.

As for as I'm concerned, the "rough Patches" she'd had are nothing out of the ordinary except for what she's brought on herself.

[MoonHarvest]

Yeah it was...and still is.. His Mom was the best...:sad:

One of their friends went not to long ago to see him.. and it's not good.. he's just kind of a shell.. very sad...

Poor kid. What happened Diojen did he have a psychotic breakdown when he killed her?

I missed this case. I used to frequent Benicia quite a bit. Now I stick to MOB given the traffic anymore. Napa is as far East as I will go. Only travel that way if I'm taking Amtrack.

[MoonHarvest]

sigh .. .... doctor J

[dinojen]

Poor kid. What happened Diojen did he have a psychotic breakdown when he killed her?

I missed this case. I used to frequent Benicia quite a bit. Now I stick to MOB given the traffic anymore. Napa is as far East as I will go. Only travel that way if I'm taking Amtrack.

I think he hit a rough spot (mentally) and his parents wanted him to go back to the hospital for a bit and he didn't want to.. it's been so long.. hard to remember it all.

Was their senior year in high school...Pat participated in everything.. I guess he just snapped. The kids that went to the hearings and stuff before he was sent away we're just heart broken. This town is so small, one high school.. everyone knows everyone... I won't ever forget my daughter's face.. or the memorial.. When they graduated.. the class gave a beautiful cement aggagrate bench with her picture on it with a poem.. I still think about them when I drive by their old house..

[meadowlark]

to much law lingo for me..don't know if this is the conflict or something else
Judge Terrence Van Oss witness for the prosecution in a capital murder case

http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/399/972/546004/

2
* This case concerns the 1980 murder of Vinod "Pete" Patel by Blufford Hayes, Jr. Patel was the resident hotel manager of the Rice Motel in Stockton, California. Hayes was staying in Room 15 of the motel with his sister, Barbara Lord. Hayes once resided at the motel himself, but had been evicted when he stopped paying rent. Several days before Patel's death, Patel had asked the police to arrest Hayes for trespassing because he had broken into his former room. Officers found Hayes in his former room with fresh needle marks on his arm; he admitted to breaking in, but said he intended to pay rent as soon as he could. The police arrested him for trespassing and for being under the influence of a controlled substance.


* In this case, the State knowingly presented false evidence to the jury and made false representations to the trial judge as to whether the State had agreed not to prosecute James on his pending felony charges. James's attorney testified in federal court that there had been a deal between himself and then-Deputy District Attorney Terrence Van Oss. The district court specifically found


I for one would like to see Judge Van Oss off this case. I think if he were to make any decisions concerning this case it will only come back to help fuel an appeal. Anything and everything Van Oss has ever done out of line in the legal system will surface and be looked at and try to be proven as prejudice against the defendent, as he has the background of lying to a jury in order to get a conviction.

And "IF" Daniel Horowitz does so happen to get involved in this case, Van Oss will be dismissed anyway, as he and Dan have legal conflict issues also.

So the best thing I feel is to remove Van Oss from this case as soon as possible before all of this ends up surfacing anyway. If he isn't removed it will all come out anyway and then the whole trial will be questioned.

I for one do not want a the Judge who presides over this case to be one who believes it is okay to lie to the court and a jury in order to get a conviction.

[MoonHarvest]

I think he hit a rough spot (mentally) and his parents wanted him to go back to the hospital for a bit and he didn't want to.. it's been so long.. hard to remember it all.

Was their senior year in high school...Pat participated in everything.. I guess he just snapped. The kids that went to the hearings and stuff before he was sent away we're just heart broken. This town is so small, one high school.. everyone knows everyone... I won't ever forget my daughter's face.. or the memorial.. When they graduated.. the class gave a beautiful cement aggagrate bench with her picture on it with a poem.. I still think about them when I drive by their old house..

Oh that is sad. I can just see the bench.. so sweet with a poem and her picture. I know Benician's love their public benches.

Do you by any chance know an M Seymour in your little town?

[Candlelight]

I have three children that I love very much.

If I thought one of them had been sexually tortured and killed by a trusted adult, it would about literally kill me.

If there was a chance that finding was incorrect, and in fact the death didn't involve any purposeful mutilation or torture, but rather was an accident, I would be so relieved.

Wouldn't you?


Wow....those Darn Tracy LE I bet they got the evidence wrong and told the mother of Sandra she was raped because it was something they "thought" happened.....Come on...

I think I would believe the Tracy LE over a killer....but hey that is just me.....would you????:angry:

[doctor_J]

The family knew about MH swallowing the razor blades before we did. I wonder if that make them suspicious? Either Mellisa or Grandpa had to call the ambulance for her the night the body was found. Same night ambulances were dispatched for the mom and grandmom of SC. I heard the father say on camera that he didn't know the details of her hospitalization. Later they were quoted in print as saying she had "'digestive issues". We know she had $5000 in ambulance bills on her bankruptcy. Swallowing blades is not a real suicide attempt, not if you immediately go to the hospital or call an ambulance. It's more of a cry for attention and help. Blades can almost always be safely retrieved by a gastroscope and if not, will usually pass with out complication. It does get very painful at the exit, however. This is commonly done by prison inmates for attention and for escape from their cell for a time. It won't likely kill you (if you run to the hospital) but it is quaranteed to get you a lot of attention. I don't understand why they did not hold her on a psychiatric evaluation as is SOP in suicide attempts. Maybe because no insurance, maybe because she was being guarded by police.

Who was it threw out the "bleeding ulcers" idea?

[dinojen]

Cypress police department spokesman Sgt. Tom Bruce said today that the department there conducted an investigation into claims by a Tracy murder suspect that a cop raped her 10 years ago. The investigation cleared the Orange County officer.

Melissa Chantel Huckaby, 28, was arrested on April 10 by Tracy police on suspicion of kidnapping, raping and murdering 8-year-old Tracy girl Sandra Cantu.

On Friday, three of Huckaby’s friends – none of whom knew each other – said she told them that a policeman raped her when she was 18, just out of high school.

Bruce confirmed that there was a report and an investigation, but provided no details and referred all calls to Tracy police.

Tracy police spokesman Sgt. Tony Sheneman said he can’t comment on an report involving Huckaby because it’s now part of an ongoing investigation.

Huckaby was arraigned on Tuesday, but entered no pleas. As charged, she could face the death penalty or life in prison without parole.

How can the print he was cleared if no information was given to that effect.. they provided no details and referred all calls to TPD..who aren't talkling..:confused:


http://tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2345658-SoCal+officer+cleared+of+Huckaby+rape+charge-+probe+found&article-SoCal%20officer%20cleared%20of%20Huckaby%20rape%20 charge-%20probe%20found%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

[datagal]

The family knew about MH swallowing the razor blades before we did. I wonder if that make them suspicious? Either Mellisa or Grandpa had to call the ambulance for her the night the body was found. Same night ambulances were dispatched for the mom and grandmom of SC. I heard the father say on camera that he didn't know the details of her hospitalization. Later they were quoted in print as saying she had "'digestive issues". We know she had $5000 in ambulance bills on her bankruptcy. Swallowing blades is not a real suicide attempt, not if you immediately go to the hospital or call an ambulance. It's more of a cry for attention and help. Blades can almost always be safely retrieved by a gastroscope and if not, will usually pass with out complication. It does get very painful at the exit, however. This is commonly done by prison inmates for attention and for escape from their cell for a time. It won't likely kill you (if you run to the hospital) but it is quaranteed to get you a lot of attention. I don't understand why they did not hold her on a psychiatric evaluation as is SOP in suicide attempts. Maybe because no insurance, maybe because she was being guarded by police.

Who was it threw out the "bleeding ulcers" idea?

Is it for certain that MH's family knew she swallowed razor blades? It is possible that she was throwing up blood and may have told them her ulcers were acting up.

[meadowlark]

ok just giving my opinion..forget my post if I knew how to just delete it I would..just meant alot of people go through alot worse and this never happens...
a lot of people do go through a LOT worse and they get through it with help from someone, whether it be professional help or just having family or friends to talk to who care AND who give good avice.

On the other hand if you go through things and NO ONE cares, or if the people who are "caring" ( or you think care) about you have bad advice or take advantage of your vulnerbility, and then use your vulnerability to push you further over the edge, then you can end up doing whatever makes you feel wanted or accepted by those you THINK are caring about you.

Melissa wanted someone to care about her, to want her, to accept her, to give her attention, and whomever that was(IF ANYONE) it wasn't some really caring person who really wanted to help her.

I believe her note to the police and her going to the police station and rattling on and her trip to the hospital etc, was all to get that attention and acceptance from someone, be it the police who "needed" her help, or to have someone run to the hospital and pay attention to her etc.

Now how she came to the conclusion she needed to kill someone and then interject herself into the investigation to finally get the attention she needed is yet to come out.

who was giving her attention and acting like they cared about her when she would do things. Oh my boyfriend did this to me, care about me; my x husband did this to me, care about me; the cop raped me, care about me; I got arrested, care about me; I'm doing this, I'm doing that, this happened to me, that happened to me, feel sorry for me, pay attention, care about me, need me, etc.

let me help the police, they need me, people are paying attention to me... to the point of getting herself caught.

NOW everyone is paying attention to her. She's on center stage now. Will she tell the truth? or is she still going to play the game?

It is my guess people quit paying attention to her a long time ago. Her family now wants the public to blame the ex husband, and her tough divorce and she was a single mother, but it is more than clear all these problems started long before she was married or had a child. And now we are hearing this goes way back to when she was a child. It just got worse and worse. Now here we are. Is this enough attention for her? or is she going to want more? and what will get her more? Is she going to make up are really good story or is she going to tell the truth?
Is it going to be "oh woe is me, please care about me", or is it going to be "I am the most unique killer of all times; give me attention".

And who is it that she will be trying to impress this time. Her family, the public, someone she knows, etc. Is she going to seek help or is she going to seek approval(and approval from whom).

Does she now want to be a nortorious killer, or does she want to be known for loyalty, or does she want approval from someone. what?

I can bet whatever she decides to say and do will be the direct response to whomever it is she wants to get attention from...whomever that might be at this time.

I would like to see her just tell the truth.

[doctor_J]

Is it for certain that MH's family knew she swallowed razor blades? It is possible that she was throwing up blood and may have told them her ulcers were acting up.

But wouldn't the ER doc have told them as soon as he got the x-ray? Maybe not if she requested they not be informed as to her condition, she is an adult with a right to privacy. But denying them access to the doctor would, in itself, raise red flags. Especially if she had a hx of doing things like that (remember that big hospitlal and ambulance bill). I'm sure if she had a serious, ongoing medical problem we would have heard of it by now. They're dragging up every bad thing they can think of that ever happened to her.

I thought at the time the family seemed awfully unconcerned about her being in the ICU.

[MoonHarvest]

Cypress police department spokesman Sgt. Tom Bruce said today that the department there conducted an investigation into claims by a Tracy murder suspect that a cop raped her 10 years ago. The investigation cleared the Orange County officer.

Melissa Chantel Huckaby, 28, was arrested on April 10 by Tracy police on suspicion of kidnapping, raping and murdering 8-year-old Tracy girl Sandra Cantu.

On Friday, three of Huckaby’s friends – none of whom knew each other – said she told them that a policeman raped her when she was 18, just out of high school.

Bruce confirmed that there was a report and an investigation, but provided no details and referred all calls to Tracy police.

Tracy police spokesman Sgt. Tony Sheneman said he can’t comment on an report involving Huckaby because it’s now part of an ongoing investigation.

Huckaby was arraigned on Tuesday, but entered no pleas. As charged, she could face the death penalty or life in prison without parole.

How can the print he was cleared if no information was given to that effect.. they provided no details and referred all calls to TPD..who aren't talkling..:confused:


http://tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2345658-SoCal+officer+cleared+of+Huckaby+rape+charge-+probe+found&article-SoCal%20officer%20cleared%20of%20Huckaby%20rape%20 charge-%20probe%20found%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&


This case is going to have so many layers when all is said and done.

Honestly, I don't know who to believe.

She may have lied, BUT the police are known at times for sticking together.

[sunstar]

Wow....those Darn Tracy LE I bet they got the evidence wrong and told the mother of Sandra she was raped because it was something they "thought" happened.....Come on...

I think I would believe the Tracy LE over a killer....but hey that is just me.....would you????:angry:

And they even brought in an independent ME for her autopsy. Yes, I also believe the findings and don't see it any way as an accident. MOO

[doctor_J]

This case is going to have so many layers when all is said and done.

Honestly, I don't know who to believe.

She may have lied, BUT the police are known at times for sticking together.

If the guy is still on the force, I would bet she lied. A rapist does not just rape once and get away with it. He would have continued until he got caught. Especially a rapist who is using a position of authority to commit his crimes.

[meadowlark]

But wouldn't the ER doc have told them as soon as he got the x-ray? Maybe not if she requested they not be informed as to her condition, she is an adult with a right to privacy. But denying them access to the doctor would, in itself, raise red flags. Especially if she had a hx of doing things like that (remember that big hospitlal and ambulance bill). I'm sure if she had a serious, ongoing medical problem we would have heard of it by now. They're dragging up every bad thing they can think of that ever happened to her.

I thought at the time the family seemed awfully unconcerned about her being in the ICU.

I hate to say this, but I see it this way, her family seems just non-chalant about everything. she is in the hospital, no one comes. Her mother takes the daughter and is gone and does not even come back when her daughter is arrested for murder. Where is the family when the grandparents are going through all the questioning.

and then when any of them are on tv etc, is seems like they are just oh well about it all. Maybe they just seem that way, maybe they aren't. they all seem like a bunch of zombies to me.

or maybe they just all gave up a long long time ago and just don't care.

[datagal]

But wouldn't the ER doc have told them as soon as he got the x-ray? Maybe not if she requested they not be informed as to her condition, she is an adult with a right to privacy. But denying them access to the doctor would, in itself, raise red flags. Especially if she had a hx of doing things like that (remember that big hospitlal and ambulance bill). I'm sure if she had a serious, ongoing medical problem we would have heard of it by now. They're dragging up every bad thing they can think of that ever happened to her.

I thought at the time the family seemed awfully unconcerned about her being in the ICU.


Well, it could very well be they did not inform the family of her condition on her request. Possible also that she was alone when her diagnosis came in. I have spend time in the E.R. for a gallbladder condition and when family came to pick me up on my release , they were never told anything. Only time anyone in my family knew the whole scoop was if they were present in the room at all times. So, MH could have just told them it was ulcers. Like you said, she is an adult.

[dinojen]

I hate to say this, but I see it this way, her family seems just non-chalant about everything. she is in the hospital, no one comes. Her mother takes the daughter and is gone and does not even come back when her daughter is arrested for murder. Where is the family when the grandparents are going through all the questioning.

and then when any of them are on tv etc, is seems like they are just oh well about it all. Maybe they just seem that way, maybe they aren't. they all seem like a bunch of zombies to me.

or maybe they just all gave up a long long time ago and just don't care.

Everyone see's things differently... I wouldn't say their family appears as zombie's or non chalant about anything... but then that's jmo.

I don't know how you expect them to act when the whole country is calling their daughter monster, murderer, rapists...

Don't get me wrong I am not defending MH.. but I don't think they gave up on her nor do I think they are oh well about it..

[Track292003]

Question for Snazzy:

What is the "F.... O mean? Earlier today, you posted that "I think they may have found the F.... O in the suitcase," and I have no clue what you mean!

TIA.

[magnolia]

Everyone see's things differently... I wouldn't say their family appears as zombie's or non chalant about anything... but then that's jmo.

I don't know how you expect them to act when the whole country is calling their daughter monster, murderer, rapists...

Don't get me wrong I am not defending MH.. but I don't think they gave up on her nor do I think they are oh well about it..

I agree with you. They certainly care and had their reasons. They don't owe us an explanation.

[doctor_J]

I hate to say this, but I see it this way, her family seems just non-chalant about everything. she is in the hospital, no one comes. Her mother takes the daughter and is gone and does not even come back when her daughter is arrested for murder. Where is the family when the grandparents are going through all the questioning.

and then when any of them are on tv etc, is seems like they are just oh well about it all. Maybe they just seem that way, maybe they aren't. they all seem like a bunch of zombies to me.

or maybe they just all gave up a long long time ago and just don't care.
I get the impression she has just worn them out with her inappropriate choices and behavior. I think they sent her away for a geographical cure. Maybe they thought grandparents could get thru to her when they could not. She was probably a source of embarrassment to her family of fundamentalist ministers. I don't suspect they had a clue she would go this far though. I sense they're in shock. The way they say the "Mellisa" they know could not do this, makes me think they believe it, at least from what LE has told them.

[datagal]

Question for Snazzy:

What is the "F.... O mean? Earlier today, you posted that "I think they may have found the F.... O in the suitcase," and I have no clue what you mean!

TIA.

Foreign object?

[MoonHarvest]

I don't believe a word of it. I looked at MH's arms in the arraingment she had no razor scars, where did she cut? So her parents had to have known about this and yet still sent her up to GM's & GP's. Lets see, she was depressed, raped by a cop, a cutter, had issues bigtime , but still had custody of her child? Who are these friends? I think it's totally BS. Bet they make money from the Enquirer!!!!!!!!! JMO


Some cut their tummies and or their inside upper thighs where it can't be seen.

Yes, believe it or not there are women out there with all of those issues who have their children. And in spite of it all raise them.

The friends asked to not be identified, so far.

[meadowlark]

Everyone see's things differently... I wouldn't say their family appears as zombie's or non chalant about anything... but then that's jmo.

I don't know how you expect them to act when the whole country is calling their daughter monster, murderer, rapists...

Don't get me wrong I am not defending MH.. but I don't think they gave up on her nor do I think they are oh well about it..

yes people all do see things differently and that is because we all come from different backgrounds and expect people to act like we ourselves would act if we were in the same situation, or we have seen someone we know act a certain way when in a similar situation, etc. So I see it one way and you or someone else will see it another. But this is okay, because it keeps us all in check that what we personally preceive to be what is going on, might not be.

perhaps I just don't understand why they did not go to the hospital, or why they did not show up to help the grandparents when all this was going on, or why they mother does not end the vacation when the daughter is arrested and go see her, or why the grandparents never went to the cantu home as a pastor and his wife showing concern for the missing girl who was at their house almost everyday, or why it is not bothering them to have easter service in the church where the murder supposedly took place. All of these things just seem TO ME, they are just oh well about it all. like their lives are in a bubble and whatever is going on around them does not affect what they are doing otherwise.

I would like to understand why I see it this way and others don't, but it must just be what is familiar to me in my life is not how I expect someone to act.

[doctor_J]

Some cut their tummies and or their inside upper thighs where it can't be seen.

Yes, believe it or not there are women out there with all of those issues who have their children. And in spite of it all raise them.

The friends asked to not be identified, so far.

The "friends" reported she cut her wrists. You can clearly see no wrist or arm scars from cutting. Even if she did, it's not even close to insanity. Cutting on places people can't see tells they know it's wrong. I only wish she had stuck with hurting only herself. I'm still worried about Madison.

[Track292003]

Got it! Thanks, datagal...I imagine it would make sense to Melissa (if anything did) to try to hide it in the suitcase with Sandra.

[MoonHarvest]

The "friends" reported she cut her wrists. You can clearly see no wrist or arm scars from cutting. Even if she did, it's not even close to insanity. Cutting on places people can't see tells they know it's wrong. I only wish she had stuck with hurting only herself. I'm still worried about Madison.

Sorry, I'm going back and forth between cooking, and did not re check the article. Did you see a close up of her arms/wrists?

Sure cutters know it's wrong.

She could very well have not hurt Madison .

BTW .. I abhor what this woman may have done, and suspect did do in light of her suicide attempt.

[doctor_J]

I would like to know if her primary goal was to rape and molest or murder? Did she want to kill the girl and the rape was done to make police look for a man? Or was her intent to sexually molest for her wown gratification and them realized she'd have to kill her to keep her quiet. Or maybe she realized she had done too much damage internally for it to stay hidden?

We'll have to wait and see but my quess is she wanted her dead, took her to the church to kill her and the rape was done because either her rage got completely out of control or she wanted to throw off police.

Quess I just can't see a mother getting sexual gratification from those acts but I know it's possible.

[dinojen]

yes people all do see things differently and that is because we all come from different backgrounds and expect people to act like we ourselves would act if we were in the same situation, or we have seen someone we know act a certain way when in a similar situation, etc. So I see it one way and you or someone else will see it another. But this is okay, because it keeps us all in check that what we personally preceive to be what is going on, might not be.

perhaps I just don't understand why they did not go to the hospital, perhaps they didn't know she was hospitalized or told there was no need to come up from LAor why they did not show up to help the grandparents when all this was going on,Again perhaps because the grandparents told them it wasn't necessary or why they mother does not end the vacation when the daughter is arrested and go see her,Because no one was allowed to see her till days after she was jailed and then her mother was more than likely caring for Madison or why the grandparents never went to the cantu home as a pastor and his wife showing concern for the missing girl who was at their house almost everyday,Would you go to a house where the uncle has stated he wants to go across the street and punch their lights out.. I think not.. distance was best IMO or why it is not bothering them to have easter service in the church where the murder supposedly took place.Do you have a link showing that the murder happened in their church proof positive..as far as I know the police haven't released that information All of these things just seem TO ME, they are just oh well about it all. like their lives are in a bubble and whatever is going on around them does not affect what they are doing otherwise.
I would like to understand why I see it this way and others don't, but it must just be what is familiar to me in my life is not how I expect someone to act.

My responses are in purple as to your questions. Everyone handles things differently... I absolutely don't blame the grandparents for not going to the Cantu home.. My father passed away many years ago.. malpractice..and the doctor that committed this death.. actually came to our home.. and sat and visited with my stunned mother... it was horrible.. the last thing you want to see is the person that you think is involved or has anything to do with the death... IMOOC.

The family is handling the best way they know how.. maybe not to your satisfaction or mine, but it's theirs to deal with as they choose.

[playnice]

I would like to know if her primary goal was to rape and molest or murder? Did she want to kill the girl and the rape was done to make police look for a man? Or was her intent to sexually molest for her wown gratification and them realized she'd have to kill her to keep her quiet. Or maybe she realized she had done too much damage internally for it to stay hidden?
We'll have to wait and see but my quess is she wanted her dead, took her to the church to kill her and the rape was done because either her rage got completely out of control or she wanted to throw off police.

Quess I just can't see a mother getting sexual gratification from those acts but I know it's possible.


If she is saying it was an accident, I believe the bolded part was what happened. Then she justified it as an accident.
I cant imagine a mother doing any of the above So it will be interesting to hear the truth if/when it comes out.

[sunstar]

I would like to know if her primary goal was to rape and molest or murder? Did she want to kill the girl and the rape was done to make police look for a man? Or was her intent to sexually molest for her wown gratification and them realized she'd have to kill her to keep her quiet. Or maybe she realized she had done too much damage internally for it to stay hidden?

We'll have to wait and see but my quess is she wanted her dead, took her to the church to kill her and the rape was done because either her rage got completely out of control or she wanted to throw off police.

Quess I just can't see a mother getting sexual gratification from those acts but I know it's possible.

I can't see the gratification she'd get from the rape either, so maybe it was to throw off police and make it look like a male SO killed Sandra. I think it will depend what the COD is determined to be, and if it's possible that MH thought Sandra was dead when she penetrated her with the object, but she really wasn't. A lot will also depend on what's in the autopsy report which we haven't seen. :sad: MOO

[meadowlark]

My responses are in purple as to your questions. Everyone handles things differently... I absolutely don't blame the grandparents for not going to the Cantu home.. My father passed away many years ago.. malpractice..and the doctor that committed this death.. actually came to our home.. and sat and visited with my stunned mother... it was horrible.. the last thing you want to see is the person that you think is involved or has anything to do with the death... IMOOC.

The family is handling the best way they know how.. maybe not to your satisfaction or mine, but it's theirs to deal with as they choose.
thank you for explaining the reasons you see their actions differently from the way I see them. It helps me to understand others points of view.

one thing thought that I mean about the grandparents not going to the cantu house when sandra went missing is BEFORE anyone suspected them. If the child was at their home almost everyday and they lived 5 houses away, I personally would have thought one of them would have went to the house, especially his being a pastor. I think most pastors or familys with strong religious beliefs would go help the neighbor if for no other reason than they knew her daughter so well

if my neighbors daughter were missing, I would be the first to go over there to help or at least to encourage them, and I don't even like my neighbor, but it is just the right thing to do.

[Texas48]

just hit emo layouts and you will see tons of them for your myspace page...:biggrin:Do I want to? lol..lol:scared:

[Texas48]

Still trying to find something about Behar and Van Oss..
Wonder what case Testra prosecuted that Judge Van Oss was a witness, still haven't figured that out... but I'm working on it.

Testa, a veteran prosecutor who has put two men on death row and countless others in prison for life, said he wants to fast-track Huckaby’s case, making it a priority because he doesn’t like cases like these “to drag on forever.”

He intends to ask the judge for a “pretrial publicity order,” commonly called a gag order, which prevents anybody involved in the case – like attorneys, investigators and witnesses – from talking outside of court to the media.

Too much talking out of turn could result in a change of venue to another county, he said. Among other logistic complications, trying it elsewhere would be expensive to taxpayers, he said.

The county would have to pay hotel, transportation and meals for the judge, bailiffs, attorneys and witnesses. Testa has tried cases out of town, including that of Wesley Shermantine, one of two death sentences Testa won.

Most recently, Testa won a death sentence against William Jennings Choyce, in a cold case investigation into the serial killer who raped and murdered three prostitutes more than a decade ago.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090413/A_NEWS/90413008Thanks for all the info..

[dinojen]

thank you for explaining the reasons you see their actions differently from the way I see them. It helps me to understand others points of view.

one thing thought that I mean about the grandparents not going to the cantu house when sandra went missing is BEFORE anyone suspected them. If the child was at their home almost everyday and they lived 5 houses away, I personally would have thought one of them would have went to the house, especially his being a pastor. I think most pastors or familys with strong religious beliefs would go help the neighbor if for no other reason than they knew her daughter so well

if my neighbors daughter were missing, I would be the first to go over there to help or at least to encourage them, and I don't even like my neighbor, but it is just the right thing to do.

No problem... do we know they didn't contact the Cantu family when she first went missing? I hadn't even thought of that.... but I sure wouldn't go near that uncle...:scared: I would keep my distance of him..

[meadowlark]

But they did go back to the church for a service, and did go pray with MH at the jail. Ick.

I'm not real clear on what I think of the extended family yet. So I'll wait to learn more till I start bashing them .

I'm not bashing them; I'm just making an observation that they act as though they are oblivious. I am trying to figure out in my own mind what they are like. What affects them how. Some people just are not emotional about things. It does not mean they are bad people etc, it just means they can tune the problems out. Maybe they just learned to tune out Melissa and all of her problems.

[Texas48]

There are women that beat and abuse children everyday. Some of them are their own children, but some of them are children in their care.

I think that women that abuse, have almost always been abused themselves - and they want others to hurt, like they hurt.

But, I bet a vast majority of abused women do not grow up to kill children.

Just as many of the men in prison were dealt a crummy hand when they were little, they had a choice whether to follow in those footsteps or not.

In IL. a few years ago, there was a crazy woman (moo) named Amanda Hamm that let her BF talk her into letting her 3 kids drown in the car, in the lake. She was found guilty of the crime, but only served 5 years in prison. IIRC.

I am tired of the suffering of little children. Sandra was precious and pure. Her killer is pure evil. There should be no second chances, if this woman is convicted of the crime.Very good post..I can't remember where the issue was being discussed but I want to say it was on NG..to the effect that when a baby or child is abused/murdered and the accused(women) goes to trial and found guilty they ..most of the time...are given light sentence...similar to the A. Hamm case...the statement was made that it is almost like the victim child is not considered a *person*....Their little lives are not worth as much as if the victim was an adult..This really stuck with me and has crossed my mind many times...I believe this is rare but it does happen..just like what was posted about Amanda Hamm..her 3 children were murdered by letting them drown in a lake..what a horrific thing to happen and she gets 5...FIVE years..does that make sense???

[Texas48]

move on over cause I need a seat..still trying to get off here but darn then I see new post..lollol..your finger just won't release the keyboard?

[meadowlark]

Very good post..I can't remember where the issue was being discussed but I want to say it was on NG..to the effect that when a baby or child is abused/murdered and the accused(women) goes to trial and found guilty they ..most of the time...are given light sentence...similar to the A. Hamm case...the statement was made that it is almost like the victim child is not considered a *person*....Their little lives are not worth as much as if the victim was an adult..This really stuck with me and has crossed my mind many times...I believe this is rare but it does happen..just like what was posted about Amanda Hamm..her 3 children were murdered by letting them drown in a lake..what a horrific thing to happen and she gets 5...FIVE years..does that make sense???

I have not looked at that case, but that is ridiculous. Sentences are totally out of whack for crimes. 2 counts of theft can net you 6 years, yet you kill people and get less. something is wrong with the justice system.

if melissa is proven guilty of these crimes she should get a comparable sentence as anyone else does. Anyone else would most likely get the dp. She should not be any different. And if an insanity plea flies in this case, that is just unreal. She has issues but most killers do.

[dinojen]

I have not looked at that case, but that is ridiculous. Sentences are totally out of whack for crimes. 2 counts of theft can net you 6 years, yet you kill people and get less. something is wrong with the justice system.

if melissa is proven guilty of these crimes she should get a comparable sentence as anyone else does. Anyone else would most likely get the dp. She should not be any different. And if an insanity plea flies in this case, that is just unreal. She has issues but most killers do.

Yeah but the DP in CA is like a 20 year sentence before it's even carried out.

Ramon Salcido killed 7 people in 1989.. one daughter survived his horrific attack.. he's still sitting on death row at San Quentin...

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.true-crime/2005-11/msg00373.html

I remember when this happened.. he left his little girls for dead in the Petaluma dump....:cursing:

[sunstar]

Yeah but the DP in CA is like a 20 year sentence before it's even carried out.

<snipped for space>

Isn't that guy they called the "night stalker" still on DR too? But it's still the most appropriate punishment for the crimes against Sandra, even though justice in Calif. seems to be very slow. MOO

[dinojen]

Isn't that guy they called the "night stalker" still on DR too? But it's still the most appropriate punishment for the crimes against Sandra, even though justice in Calif. seems to be very slow. MOO

Yeah..he's at SQ too... got married in 1996.. :rolleyes:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/ramirez/terror_1.html

CA is reviewing the legality of the DP right now... so none are being done..

[meadowlark]

Yeah but the DP in CA is like a 20 year sentence before it's even carried out.

Ramon Salcido killed 7 people in 1989.. one daughter survived his horrific attack.. he's still sitting on death row at San Quentin...

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.true-crime/2005-11/msg00373.html

I remember when this happened.. he left his little girls for dead in the Petaluma dump....:cursing:

yes I know calif lags on carrying out the dp, but whatever everyone else gets, she should get the same, I am just saying she should not be any different than anyone else. Now if her crime is comparable to lwop she should get that, and if they were handing out 2 yrs sentences for murdering, then she should get that. What I am saying is, she should get what every other killer gets.

what I don't like is they give one person on sentence and another something totally out of line with someone else. Makes no sense.

[meadowlark]

Isn't that guy they called the "night stalker" still on DR too? But it's still the most appropriate punishment for the crimes against Sandra, even though justice in Calif. seems to be very slow. MOO

that is richard rimirez, and yes he is still very alive and writing to the world.

[MoonFlwr]

It's not a contest.


It's in our best interest to try to understand the path to these crimes. I think most likely with intervention this path could have been headed off. Everyone who knew this woman has reported that she was off-course, even the courts apparently wanted her to get mental help.

I keep wondering was her Mother coming for a visit a trigger? Not that it matters, just curious as to what may have set this woman off.

Good post, MoonHarvest!

[sunstar]

Yeah..he's at SQ too... got married in 1996.. :rolleyes:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/ramirez/terror_1.html

CA is reviewing the legality of the DP right now... so none are being done..

Oh ~ I didn't know there was a moratorium there too. :sad:

[sunstar]

yes I know calif lags on carrying out the dp, but whatever everyone else gets, she should get the same, I am just saying she should not be any different than anyone else. Now if her crime is comparable to lwop she should get that, and if they were handing out 2 yrs sentences for murdering, then she should get that. What I am saying is, she should get what every other killer gets.

what I don't like is they give one person on sentence and another something totally out of line with someone else. Makes no sense.

I agree! MOO

[MoonFlwr]

I'm sure many people have been through the above things and made it just fine... but there is always that maybe 10% out of the 90% that don't...

Not defending MH but there are always some that slip by unnoticed that they need help or are going to turn out bad...

Agree with you, dinojen.

There are many factors involved determining how a person comes out of stressful situations...such as environmental, self-identity etc.

I am not making any excuses for Melissa, I just think it is important to acknowledge that this is not a cut-and-dried, black-or-white subject.

[meadowlark]

Has anyone but me wondered why they found the gloves under a crawl space at the church? Did she use those gloves, also can they get dna off the inside of the gloves? She sure was a busy girl to do all of this in a 4 hour time peiord imo.:cursing:


yes they can get dna off of the inside of gloves.

the gloves are very interesting to me, and I am waiting to hear if they found more than one pair. I am also interested in what they looked like, and what size they were, adult or children's. or both?

[dinojen]

Oh ~ I didn't know there was a moratorium there too. :sad:

FYI..slow process in CA.. definatley not like Texas...

There are 673 inmates on California's death row and 79 inmates there are still waiting to be appointed attorneys to prepare their automatic appeals to the California Supreme Court.

California has executed 13 inmates since the death penalty was reintroduced in 1978 and none since 2005 when a federal judge ordered a de facto moratorium until state officials fixed flaws he found in the how California prison officials deliver the lethal three-drug cocktail during executions. The U.S. Supreme Court earlier this year upheld Kentucky's lethal injection system, which is nearly identical to California's.

Still, California's executions remain on hold while the federal judge awaits the resolution of a separate death penalty challenge in state courts.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,374164,00.html

[Texas48]

Suicidal from the sixth grade onwards ?
Where was this girl's family is my question

did not say it was a contest saying we have all lived through many of those things and much worse..jmo
I agree...many right here on this board most likely did not grow up w/silver spoon in our mouths...at one time or the other my quess is ALL has had problems from time to time. and try and keep in mind these things may have NOT happened to MH at all..very possible she may have told *stories* to get attention from friends. I give her no pass.

[meadowlark]

I am just visiting this theory for a moment here. I was considering how MH's entire family seems to surround their religious beliefs and the church that they belong to. They are by appearance to me, if only me, is rather passive and seemingly dismissive when it comes to MH.

MH has a history of issues that were left unchecked, including but not limited to, her accusing an officer of the law of committing a rape against her. She also had committed recent criminal acts (prior to Sandra's disappearance, rape and murder.) She was left without child support for her Daughter etc...
Her life was spiraling downward and her acts against Sandra, rape and murder, could very possibly have been the ultimate act of defiance against her life, her own family and the God that she believes in. It was mentioned that MH had both threatened and attempted suicide.

It is possible that to MH, Sandra's rape and death could have been selfishly, insanely and horrifically sacraficial. Am I making sense here?

sacraficial in what way? To whom, for what?

[dinojen]

yes they can get dna off of the inside of gloves.

the gloves are very interesting to me, and I am waiting to hear if they found more than one pair. I am also interested in what they looked like, and what size they were, adult or children's. or both?

Do you have a link to what was found under the church as LE has released no information at all regarding where the death occurred or what evidence they have.. was just curious as to where this glove topic came up and the FO being in the suitcase or is that just speculation?

[Texas48]

ok just giving my opinion..forget my post if I knew how to just delete it I would..just meant alot of people go through alot worse and this never happens...
NO need to delete your post mom...you are correct. Everyone has a different opinion..thank goodness. Please..never feel you should not have your thoughts..and these are my thoughts..

[sunstar]

FYI..slow process in CA.. definatley not like Texas...

There are 673 inmates on California's death row and 79 inmates there are still waiting to be appointed attorneys to prepare their automatic appeals to the California Supreme Court.

California has executed 13 inmates since the death penalty was reintroduced in 1978 and none since 2005 when a federal judge ordered a de facto moratorium until state officials fixed flaws he found in the how California prison officials deliver the lethal three-drug cocktail during executions. The U.S. Supreme Court earlier this year upheld Kentucky's lethal injection system, which is nearly identical to California's.

Still, California's executions remain on hold while the federal judge awaits the resolution of a separate death penalty challenge in state courts.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,374164,00.html

I had no idea they were that slow ~ only 13 executed out of over 600 on DR? :eek: I still think though that if the crime fits, then the ultimate punishment should be given, even if it means the killer sits on DR for years. At least they know they're either going to die there of natural causes or be strapped to that gurney and given the needle. MOO

[Texas48]

I got lost (as a receiver of CS) in the system for over a yr., was at the same address, same #. I didn't lose myself, the system lost me. By the time I barged uninvited to the judges courtroom and he heard from me( and gave me a free court appointed att) I wasn't getting nothing. This man/Madison's father moved, the murderer moved, different states, different jobs, different child support systems, (which sucks big time to begin with). Be careful, Britian judged Susan by her looks. How do you know she didn't tell an untruth? He crawled out of the woodwork? What should he have done? The media would have found and hound him. So he came out in the open, now that's wrong. If he hid, would that be a problem too?I agree Snazzy..I think MH's husband was rather brave coming forward..he was notified about the events and he came most likely for his daughter's sake. and we have to remember..we do not know what happened between them..he was very decent in what he said about MH and I admire him for that as well. I can't hammer him without knowing his side and I don't believe it matters anyway..The only person he has to worry about is his daughter...a very long road this child will have.

[Texas48]

okay just not going into it anymore..yes her family and these so called friends maybe should have done something before it got to this...IF..BIG IF anything did happen...??

[meadowlark]

Do you have a link to what was found under the church as LE has released no information at all regarding where the death occurred or what evidence they have.. was just curious as to where this glove topic came up and the FO being in the suitcase or is that just speculation?

I never mentioned the foreign object, but here is link for gloves


FBI Digging Under Church For Cantu Investigation

TRACY, Calif. (CBS13) ―

(4/7/2009)


CBS13 cameras rolled as an agent from the FBI's Evidence Response Team crawled into an underground space and emerged with what appeared to be a pair of work gloves. The FBI has not commented on what they are searching for.


http://cbs13.com/local/sandra.cantu.church.2.979203.html

edit to fix link

[koawally]

But they did go back to the church for a service, and did go pray with MH at the jail. Ick.

I'm not real clear on what I think of the extended family yet. So I'll wait to learn more till I start bashing them .

I think the extended family is doing what any loving family would do.

I would certainly go visit my child, love does not end with criminal charges. MH has NOT been tried...yet.
I'd be absolutely shocked to have a family member in such a horrifying situation...but, I definately would visit and pray with my family member, as well.

There are so many victims.

[Texas48]

Count me in in the Ice Cold camp. It makes me nauseous to read all the seeming excuses Melissa and her camp are throwing out. Poor, poor Melissa. She couldn't have done this alone, she's just a woman. There, there. Perhaps we should just let her go, the poor dear has been through so much. I'm exaggerating, but I don't recall such soul-searching going on for John Couey or Joseph Duncan III or other men who kill children.

IMO, she's a world-class attention seeker and manipulator. She'll say and do whatever she needs to say or do to get people to feel sorry for her, including swallowing razor blades (probably to get out of talking to LE once the body was found).

As for the autopsy, a huge percentage of autopsies are done without having defense present, since it often takes days, weeks, months, years, to arrest someone. That's why the ME is an independent agency. That's why reports, notes, records, photographs exist to document the process and findings. This request for exhumation is appalling.
excellent post..

[dinojen]

FBI Digging Under Church For Cantu Investigation

TRACY, Calif. (CBS13) ―

(4/7/2009)


CBS13 cameras rolled as an agent from the FBI's Evidence Response Team crawled into an underground space and emerged with what appeared to be a pair of work gloves. The FBI has not commented on what they are searching for.


http://cbs13.com/local/sandra.cantu.church.2.979203.html

edit to fix link

Hmmm link doesn't work... but from what I understand about CSI.. wouldn't you think the gloves would of been in an evidence bag and sealed instead of just being carried out from under the church.. :confused: Just asking... everything I have ever seen they have bagged and sealed it?

[meadowlark]

Oops sorry you misunderstood, not accusing you of bashing them. It took a few days, but........... I totally agree with you, I need to learn more about the parents of MH and what they knew, when, and why they let her go "help" the GP's. JMO


I did not think you were ACCUSING me, just wanted to clarify that "I" was not "bashing" them. LOL these no body language posts LOL hard to understand sometimes what people are saying. I did not take it in a negative way:biggrin:

[Texas48]

I would like to know if her primary goal was to rape and molest or murder? Did she want to kill the girl and the rape was done to make police look for a man? Or was her intent to sexually molest for her wown gratification and them realized she'd have to kill her to keep her quiet. Or maybe she realized she had done too much damage internally for it to stay hidden?

We'll have to wait and see but my quess is she wanted her dead, took her to the church to kill her and the rape was done because either her rage got completely out of control or she wanted to throw off police.

Quess I just can't see a mother getting sexual gratification from those acts but I know it's possible.good thoughts and issues for discussion..I hope I'm wrong but I believe when *more* comes out about this case and get the ME's report it will be an eye opener for sure.

[sunstar]

Hmmm link doesn't work... but from what I understand about CSI.. wouldn't you think the gloves would of been in an evidence bag and sealed instead of just being carried out from under the church.. :confused: Just asking... everything I have ever seen they have bagged and sealed it?

As long as they had gloves on when the work gloves were retrieved, or didn't touch them with their bare hands, they could've bagged them after getting them out from under the church. :shrug: MOO

[meadowlark]

I'm not even sure what I am saying here but I am going to try to answer you anyway.
She could have been sacrificing Sandra specifically as an act of defiance.
She stole away that beautiful little girls innocence (the rape) which very possibly MH herself, felt was taken/stolen/compromised away from her (MH) potentially on many different levels.

I understand what you are meaning.

it's possible she did think that way. At this point just about anything is possible. We all have different theories and I am not sure any of them can be discounted at this point.

on a much lesser note, I use to do whatever it was that I thought my mother would hate or cause her and my family to be "disgraced" or embarrassed by it, because I did not like the way they MADE me ACT. The whole thing was a total farce and I did not like pretending that we were something we were not, so my rebellion was to do whatever they hated the most.

its possible melissa went to extremes to defy whatever it was they brought her up to be.

[Texas48]

I have not looked at that case, but that is ridiculous. Sentences are totally out of whack for crimes. 2 counts of theft can net you 6 years, yet you kill people and get less. something is wrong with the justice system.

if melissa is proven guilty of these crimes she should get a comparable sentence as anyone else does. Anyone else would most likely get the dp. She should not be any different. And if an insanity plea flies in this case, that is just unreal. She has issues but most killers do.your right meadowlark..Ridiculous is a great word..to describe how our justice system works..but it is better than most countries..maybe. In some countries if a woman or man murdered a child they would have been hung up right there on the spot. hmmmmmmm..I'm thinking now...

[dinojen]

As long as they had gloves on when the work gloves were retrieved, or didn't touch them with their bare hands, they could've bagged them after getting them out from under the church. MOO

:confused: You could be right.. I sure don't know.. I just find it odd.. when everything else that came out that was small enough to be bagged.. and sealed... it was...

Must be watching too much NCIS...:biggrin: Love that show... and Mark Harmon...:wub:

[meadowlark]

Hmmm link doesn't work... but from what I understand about CSI.. wouldn't you think the gloves would of been in an evidence bag and sealed instead of just being carried out from under the church.. :confused: Just asking... everything I have ever seen they have bagged and sealed it?

I fixed the link now.

I would think le and feds should do a lot of things that sometimes they do not do. I was not there, so I have no idea what they did or did not do, nor how they did it.

I personally do believe they found gloves, or that there were gloves that should have been found... my own personal reasons. whether or not they have anything to do with sandra's murder I have no idea.

but I am very interested in them if they were there.

[MoonFlwr]

I think the extended family is doing what any loving family would do.

I would certainly go visit my child, love does not end with criminal charges. MH has NOT been tried...yet.
I'd be absolutely shocked to have a family member in such a horrifying situation...but, I definately would visit and pray with my family member, as well.

There are so many victims.

Ditto......... !

[dinojen]

your right meadowlark..Ridiculous is a great word..to describe how our justice system works..but it is better than most countries..maybe. In some countries if a woman or man murdered a child they would have been hung up right there on the spot. hmmmmmmm..I'm thinking now...

Thank god we have the laws we do... as much as some of the crimes are horrific, I am still proud that we don't behead, stone or hang criminals without a trial and they are given their day in court... jmo

[sunstar]

You could be right.. I sure don't know.. I just find it odd.. when everything else that came out that was small enough to be bagged.. and sealed... it was...

Must be watching too much NCIS...:biggrin: Love that show... and Mark Harmon...:wub:

I confess I watch too much CSI ~ and they always solve everything within an hour! If only real life were the same. :biggrin:

[dinojen]

I confess I watch too much CSI ~ and they always solve everything within an hour! If only real life were the same. :biggrin:

Was a huge fan too..until Grissom left:crying: Don't care for the new guy at all....:angry:

[sunstar]

Was a huge fan too..until Grissom left:crying: Don't care for the new guy at all....:angry:

There's always NY & Miami! :biggrin: I think we're all spoiled how quickly things get solved on tv and just a little frustrated when in reality LE doesn't tell us everything they know ~ and we have to speculate. Even in this case they've said they don't know what the motive was. It might be something only MH knows and no one else ever will. MOO

[meadowlark]

:confused: You could be right.. I sure don't know.. I just find it odd.. when everything else that came out that was small enough to be bagged.. and sealed... it was...

Must be watching too much NCIS...:biggrin: Love that show... and Mark Harmon...:wub:

ok just found this.


here is the video of cbs saying they crawled out of the crawl space from under the church

http://cbs13.com/local/sandra.cantu.church.2.979203.html

at 1:19/6:41 on the video

here is a blow up of the frame where agent has whatever it is in their hand; what cbs is saying looks like work gloves.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/crimecases/cantugloves1.jpg

[dinojen]

There's always NY & Miami! :biggrin: I think we're all spoiled how quickly things get solved on tv and just a little frustrated when in reality LE doesn't tell us everything they know ~ and we have to speculate. Even in this case they've said they don't know what the motive was. It might be something only MH knows and no one else ever will. MOO
Love NY and Miami...:thumbsup: I agree these shows spoiled us.. in reality nothing happens as fast as it does on a hour tv show on crime scene investigations....:rolleyes:

[dinojen]

ok just found this.


here is the video of cbs saying they crawled out of the crawl space from under the church

http://cbs13.com/local/sandra.cantu.church.2.979203.html

at 1:19/6:41 on the video

here is a blow up of the frame where agent has whatever it is in their hand; what cbs is saying looks like work gloves.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/crimecases/cantugloves1.jpg

Hey I'm not doubting you... but it still needs to be connected to the case.. they could be gloves from anything.. doesn't mean they are connected to this case....:confused:

[meadowlark]

If those are gloves that would prove intent would it not?


here is another blow up of a frame right after that as she is moving. the black thing is the flashlight, I guess the other is the glove/gloves, they said pair of gloves.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/crimecases/cantugloves2.jpg

did it look like in that video she actually laid that stuff on the ground when she was trying to get up out of that hole? I hope not.

[meadowlark]

If those are gloves that would prove intent would it not?


a person could be wearing gloves for many reasons. someone could have been gardening at the church... they could have crawled under the church to fix a pipe or something and left them there, or even if they were Melissa's she could have already had them on if she did not intend to kill anyone but then did.

so I am not sure how the gloves alone could prove intent. Maybe in combination with something else, I don't know what that would be though...

unless they have a film with someone's hands with those gloves on and those gloves happen to have melissa's dna in them and no one elses.

maybe someone else has an idea, I can't think of one that would allow those gloves to prove "intent". the gloves could though be linked to a murder and if so who most likely committed the murder, but the only thing I can think of is they show up in some film of murder or something.

? ? ? any other ideas?

[meadowlark]

Hey I'm not doubting you... but it still needs to be connected to the case.. they could be gloves from anything.. doesn't mean they are connected to this case....:confused:

exactly, I did not mean they were connected or not. I answered another poster about I would be INTERESTED in gloves, and then I went on to say later, I had my own reasons for being interested in them.

I just posted back there they might be anything, from anyone and might have been left there while someone was fixing a pipe or anything under there. :smile:


I think you are misunderstand me LOL

[meadowlark]

Was this search done the day after they arrested MH? I cant remember.

the article is on the 7th
and it says they searched on tuesday which was the 7th

so I would assume on the 7th. the tues before that was march 31, so must be april 7th

The Clover Road Baptist Church was cordoned off Tuesday afternoon as agents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation combed over the property, hauling out items and bagging items found.

http://cbs13.com/local/sandra.cantu.church.2.979203.html

[dinojen]

exactly, I did not mean they were connected or not. I answered another poster about I would be INTERESTED in gloves, and then I went on to say later, I had my own reasons for being interested in them.

I just posted back there they might be anything, from anyone and might have been left there while someone was fixing a pipe or anything under there. :smile:


I think you are misunderstand me LOL

Guess we are all going to have to be patient and wait till they release any info.. which if the atty's have their say... there will be a gag order...:angry:

[sunstar]

here is another blow up of a frame right after that as she is moving. the black thing is the flashlight, I guess the other is the glove/gloves, they said pair of gloves.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/crimecases/cantugloves2.jpg

did it look like in that video she actually laid that stuff on the ground when she was trying to get up out of that hole? I hope not.

It kind of did look like that, but with gloves, remember that there's DNA inside them, not just what's on the outside. :smile: MOO

[meadowlark]

Was this search done the day after they arrested MH? I cant remember.

sandra's body was found MONDAY APRIL 6th

The church's pastor, Lane Lawless, became a focus of the investigation the day after Sandra Cantu's remains were found. Authorities searched his home late Monday night before they announced Sandra's death and questioned him and his wife for hours.

Officers searched the Lawless' home again Tuesday morning, along with four other homes in the complex, according to a maintenance worker who witnessed it.

they also searched the church tuesday afternoon , when they found the "gloves".

http://cbs13.com/local/sandra.cantu.church.2.979203.html


the article at that time says the pastor was the focus, but for all we know they might have been looking at melissa instead of her grandfather. They had found the suitcase, and they probably already knew about melissa's suitcase.

and if they knew about the note melissa "found" the day after sandra went missing, and that note mentioned the suitcase, then the combination of the note and the suitcase found Monday, would probably lead them to the lawless home. after questioning the pastor and his wife for hours they next day they go back to his house then to the church. meanwhile melissa is in the hospital.


remember now the police are saying that melissa would have been arrested anyway even without the note. and they had police on shift at the hospital with her also.

so they suspected someone in that house? probably, but why search 4 other homes the same time.

there could have been something in that suitcase, even though they said there was not...but they most likely tied it to melissa's missing suitcase. so the went to lawless house... then after questioning them they went to the church.

this is all my guess, but it makes sense to me.

and also fred williams had said that someone stole some lady's suitcase from the church. did he say that before or after sandra was found? let me look


edit to add
not sure what day exactly fred first said this about the suitcase stolen from the church, but this is from april 9th kcra, so at least that early
Williams also said the black suitcase Cantu was found in was reported stolen from another member of the congregation on the day Cantu disappeared. It was apparently intended for a rummage sale, according to Williams

[meadowlark]

It kind of did look like that, but with gloves, remember that there's DNA inside them, not just what's on the outside. :smile: MOO

yes, dna on the inside, but they could say whatever was on the outside(if there is anything or if the gloves turn out to have anything at all to do with this case) could have gotten there from lying them on the ground or wherever else they have them open too. Unreal they were so careless.

[AmndaRcknwth]

Fred Williams blabbed about the suitcase AFTER Sandra was found in it.

[AmndaRcknwth]

yes, dna on the inside, but they could say whatever was on the outside(if there is anything or if the gloves turn out to have anything at all to do with this case) could have gotten there from lying them on the ground or wherever else they have them open too. Unreal they were so careless.

Remember though... it is only the media who says "looked like gloves".

It may not be gloves at all.

[merical]

Remember though... it is only the media who says "looked like gloves".

It may not be gloves at all.

Don't laugh at me, please, but when I saw the agent coming out with the gloves (or what looked like gloves) my first thought was another agent had been down there and had taken gloves, put them down, finally squeezed back out of the hole and went, "Dang it anyway! Hey Agent Jane, could you crawl over and see if I left my gloves in there, I think I might have left them down there, bring em with you when you come out! Those suckers were expensive!" And the media just didn't hear that part. Do you suppose the agents are sitting back shaking their heads at all of us because the gloves were really nothing?:huh:

[AmndaRcknwth]

Exactly, merical! But we do what we do.... speculate.

[meadowlark]

Remember though... it is only the media who says "looked like gloves".

It may not be gloves at all.

it very well might not be gloves. It is only my personal opinion that there were gloves involved in this case. that is why I am INTERESTED in them. I had believed gloves would be found before they found them. So this is why I am intersted.

It does not mean those are gloves, or those are the gloves I thought of, but it is why I am so interested in any gloves that MIGHT be found.

I think I should just be quiet LOL

[nc1948]

yeah sure if we did a poll 90% of us would have been through these things...I know I have..

They all said the rape occurred at a time when Huckaby’s life began to spiral downward.
Not even going to go into this

Her first serious boyfriend had moved away, which broke her heart.
Poor her yeah had that happen many times

Her best friend had moved away to college.
poor her had it happen a lot since I was a single mom and did not go off to college

Huckaby had trouble getting along with her family, said the friends.
who does not have problems at some point in their life with their parents..I did when I was a teen also thought I knew everything

Private letters shared by one source indicate Huckaby was suicidal, and had been since the sixth grade.
suffer from depression have for 15 yrs

bad divorce
been there done that

No child support
been there done that for 18yrs..

trouble finding a job at some point
been there done that also

Cutting
nope have not been there before

criminal record
nope not even a speeding ticket

now I am sure a lot of people have been through all of the above and dealt with it and lead a life not of crime and ending up killing someone a child which is even worse IMO

Very good break down. In my opinion, there is no acceptable excuse/ defense for killing a child.
If everyone that had been abused/molested/neglected/raped or otherwise had some trama in their lives were given this as an excuse we would be in a world of hurt. Women are given a pass because they have just had a baby and are depressed. It is time to just look at the crime and select the punishment for that crime. A child is dead and if it is proven that this woman did it, that should be the only consideration.

[meadowlark]

Fred Williams blabbed about the suitcase AFTER Sandra was found in it.

I am now finding reference to fred talking about that as early as the 8th.

[meadowlark]

Don't laugh at me, please, but when I saw the agent coming out with the gloves (or what looked like gloves) my first thought was another agent had been down there and had taken gloves, put them down, finally squeezed back out of the hole and went, "Dang it anyway! Hey Agent Jane, could you crawl over and see if I left my gloves in there, I think I might have left them down there, bring em with you when you come out! Those suckers were expensive!" And the media just didn't hear that part. Do you suppose the agents are sitting back shaking their heads at all of us because the gloves were really nothing?:huh:

that very well might have happened.

[meadowlark]

this is at least part of what the LETTER(not the note) said

"You've taken my life away from me but I forgive you and god will judge you at some point,"

kind of a strange thing to say

[meadowlark]

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/crimecases/cantugloves2.jpg


It's not gloves, maybe that's it's name. It's a kitten, look close. Back paws on back of small board , short black tail , small face in front of guy carrying it.

let me try to blow that up some more etc...

[AmndaRcknwth]

Stuffed animal?

[nc1948]

NO need to delete your post mom...you are correct. Everyone has a different opinion..thank goodness. Please..never feel you should not have your thoughts..and these are my thoughts..

Amen, all opinions are greatly appreciated by me.
If we all agreed this board would be so booring. The only posts would be "I agree" "Nice post" "ITA".
The posters that disagree with me are the ones that make me rethink my feelings. When I rethink, I either change my point of view or reinforce my point of view.
Either way,
I enjoy reading posts that have a different view.

[meadowlark]

best I can lighten this, tried everything to see better

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/crimecases/cantugloves3.jpg

[Deb7]

Blaiser criticized the Tracy Police Department's handling of the case, saying that they took too long to bring in scent dogs to track down the missing eight-year-old girl, a move he said could have "absolutely" saved her life.

"It's very sloppy police work," Blaiser said. "They can't think of everything, but that's sort of the very obvious thing that you expect them to think about."


Did this defense asstorney( OJ att. too) not read that little Sandra was murdered before she was reported missing? This is exactly why I can't stand defense att.

Excuse me I'm gonna go have EMO:tonguewag:


I just wanted to say, while LE might be saying that Sandra was most likely murdered before she was reported missing, LE had NO way of knowing that when they got the call. Therefore, they DID waste time. I seem to recall that LE didn't even want to admit that the child was abducted, not even worthy of an Amber Alert, or scent dogs that very same evening... :thumbdown:
That kind of thing irritates me and then for them to excuse their (IMO) sloppy work by giving a public excuse that she was most likely already murdered before she was ever reported missing by her family makes me even angrier.
JMO, but shame on them. :no:

BTW when that Blaiser fella made that report, police hadn't yet revealed that they suspected Sandra had been killed before they were even called.
Again, JMO.

[oodi]

I just wanted to say, while LE might be saying that Sandra was most likely murdered before she was reported missing, LE had NO way of knowing that when they got the call. Therefore, they DID waste time. I seem to recall that LE didn't even want to admit that the child was abducted, not even worthy of an Amber Alert, or scent dogs that very same evening... :thumbdown:
That kind of thing irritates me and then for them to excuse their (IMO) sloppy work by giving a public excuse that she was most likely already murdered before she was ever reported missing by her family makes me even angrier.
JMO, but shame on them. :no:

BTW when that Blaiser fella made that report, police hadn't yet revealed that they suspected Sandra had been killed before they were even called.
Again, JMO.

I thought I had read that from what LE knew at the time, it did not meet some of the criteria required for an Amber Alert, and that is why some are now requesting that those criteria be changed... but I could be wrong on that.

[Deb7]

I thought I had read that from what LE knew at the time, it did not meet some of the criteria required for an Amber Alert, and that is why some are now requesting that those criteria be changed... but I could be wrong on that.


Not sure if I am reading these guidelines wrong, but it sounds like it is ultimately up to LE if the alert is issued or not. Either way, it is a small child, the only guidelines should be "Child Missing". There's your guideline, plain and simple.
Here is a link to the CA Amber Alert guidelines and criteria. http://www.chp.ca.gov/amber/index.html

(from that site ^^^ )
AMBER ALERT Guidelines

AMBER ALERT may be activated only by law enforcement agencies.
AMBER ALERT is intended only for the most serious, time-critical child abduction cases.
AMBER ALERT is not intended for cases involving runaways or parental abduction, except in life-threatening situations.


Criteria for activating an AMBER ALERT

Law enforcement agencies ensure these conditions are met before activating an AMBER ALERT:

The investigating law enforcement agency confirms an abduction has occurred.
The victim is 17 years of age or younger, or has a proven mental or physical disability.
The victim is in imminent danger of serious injury or death.
There is information available that, if provided to the public, could assist in the child's safe recovery.

8 y/o unaccounted for child = Amber Alert (IMO)
Not sure what it would have hurt to do this, even if it didn't help, it wouldn't have hurt anything. JMO

[MoonFlwr]

Hi Adalena

I can't access that last link you posted. May just be my computer.:shrug:

[MoonFlwr]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already.
It's to do with MH's rape allegations.

http://tinyurl.com/d55yg5

[MoonHarvest]

Interesting article

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/18/MN07174DBJ.DTL

Disbelief among those who know Tracy suspect

[KuRIouS]

yes people all do see things differently and that is because we all come from different backgrounds and expect people to act like we ourselves would act if we were in the same situation, or we have seen someone we know act a certain way when in a similar situation, etc. So I see it one way and you or someone else will see it another. But this is okay, because it keeps us all in check that what we personally preceive to be what is going on, might not be.

perhaps I just don't understand why they did not go to the hospital, or why they did not show up to help the grandparents when all this was going on, or why they mother does not end the vacation when the daughter is arrested and go see her, or why the grandparents never went to the cantu home as a pastor and his wife showing concern for the missing girl who was at their house almost everyday, or why it is not bothering them to have easter service in the church where the murder supposedly took place. All of these things just seem TO ME, they are just oh well about it all. like their lives are in a bubble and whatever is going on around them does not affect what they are doing otherwise.

I would like to understand why I see it this way and others don't, but it must just be what is familiar to me in my life is not how I expect someone to act.

I perceive similarly as you do. Some of it does seem odd to me also.

[MoonFlwr]

Interesting article

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/18/MN07174DBJ.DTL

Disbelief among those who know Tracy suspect

Very interesting.

About the often-mentioned issue of the police insisting that only Melissa was involved....I was wondering if the police would ever say that to the media and stick to it in order to try and discover a second suspect.

[aproudmom]

Guess we are all going to have to be patient and wait till they release any info.. which if the atty's have their say... there will be a gag order...:angry:

I have no doubt there will be a gag order...so we will not know a lot until the trial..

[aproudmom]

yes people all do see things differently and that is because we all come from different backgrounds and expect people to act like we ourselves would act if we were in the same situation, or we have seen someone we know act a certain way when in a similar situation, etc. So I see it one way and you or someone else will see it another. But this is okay, because it keeps us all in check that what we personally preceive to be what is going on, might not be.

perhaps I just don't understand why they did not go to the hospital, or why they did not show up to help the grandparents when all this was going on, or why they mother does not end the vacation when the daughter is arrested and go see her, or why the grandparents never went to the cantu home as a pastor and his wife showing concern for the missing girl who was at their house almost everyday, or why it is not bothering them to have easter service in the church where the murder supposedly took place. All of these things just seem TO ME, they are just oh well about it all. like their lives are in a bubble and whatever is going on around them does not affect what they are doing otherwise.

I would like to understand why I see it this way and others don't, but it must just be what is familiar to me in my life is not how I expect someone to act.

Meadow I have said the same thing they seem to have no emotion over this child they say they have known since she was born they did not reach out to the family not usual behavior for a pastor even if it is not their pastor he has been their neighbor for many years..he even said in one interview it is time to move on OK maybe they can don't think Sandra's family can.Why did grandma say how could anyone abuse and murder this child we had not heard that so why the abuse in her talking did she just assume she had been abused??.I am so sick of hearing all these excuses it is bull imo..of course they are going to blame it on a bad divorce or a single mom..we must remember they are family and friends..and if they knew she had mental problems then they failed her no one else..jmo..attention and mental issues are totally different in my mind...all jmo

[aproudmom]

I just tried it again and it works for me. Here's the title from Contra Costa Times, maybe you could do a search at their web site. I've been working all week and surprised at what I've missed.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_12140349?nclick_check=1

Report: Huckaby claims girl's death "an accident"

link wont work for me:confused:

[aproudmom]

Hey...I'm determined... lol... don't know why... but just curious to see how they all operate their cases..

Will dink you if I find anything... promise.

First I better go do the breakfast dishes.. I'm such a bum today... geesh..

hey dino did you find out anymore about this conflict? I only found one case is that enough for a conflict being that was so many years ago?
I did not find to much on her PD either..did look up the expert they are using or want to use...

[aproudmom]

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090419/A_NEWS/904190315

This town sure has been through alot...this was a very nice thing to do for the people of the town who helped in the search for this angel

TRACY - City leaders, police officers, firefighters and community volunteers - the same people who restlessly searched for days on end to find 8-year-old Sandra Cantu and arrest her alleged killer - gathered Saturday afternoon at Civic Center Park. They barbecued hot dogs and hamburgers and mingled. Some started a pick-up soccer game.

[MoonFlwr]

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090419/A_NEWS/904190315

This town sure has been through alot...this was a very nice thing to do for the people of the town who helped in the search for this angel

TRACY - City leaders, police officers, firefighters and community volunteers - the same people who restlessly searched for days on end to find 8-year-old Sandra Cantu and arrest her alleged killer - gathered Saturday afternoon at Civic Center Park. They barbecued hot dogs and hamburgers and mingled. Some started a pick-up soccer game.

That's heart-warming! :)

(Hiya mom :) )

[Themis]

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090419/A_NEWS/904190315

This town sure has been through alot...this was a very nice thing to do for the people of the town who helped in the search for this angel

TRACY - City leaders, police officers, firefighters and community volunteers - the same people who restlessly searched for days on end to find 8-year-old Sandra Cantu and arrest her alleged killer - gathered Saturday afternoon at Civic Center Park. They barbecued hot dogs and hamburgers and mingled. Some started a pick-up soccer game.

It's good to read that in spite of the recent big increase in population Tracy maintains, to a certain degree, a small town atmosphere.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Tracy has grown 41% from the official count in 2000 to the July 2006 estimate.

Thanks for the article link. [JMO * Themis]

[aproudmom]

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2345658-SoCal+officer+cleared+of+Huckaby+rape+charge-+probe+found&article-SoCal%20officer%20cleared%20of%20Huckaby%20rape%20 charge-%20probe%20found%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&open=&

If she cried wolf on a rape how dare her..this is sick to say you were raped when you were not...this peezzz me off:cursing:

[aproudmom]

It's good to read that in spite of the recent big increase in population Tracy maintains, to a certain degree, a small town atmosphere.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Tracy has grown 41% from the official count in 2000 to the July 2006 estimate.

Thanks for the article link. [JMO * Themis]

Good Morning Themis
yeah I thought it was nice for them to all get together and try to start to get some sort of a normal life..

[aproudmom]

So which is it her friends said it was never reported but then today I read it had been reported..my next question is she is 28 right? I graduated in 90 and sure wish I could say I was still in my 20's she would be in her 30's if she graduated in 90.:confused:



According to all three friends, Melissa Huckaby was 18 at the time and living with her parents in La Habra, Calif. The friends, who asked that their names be withheld, did not know each other. But each told the same story that Huckaby was date raped by a police officer shortly after she graduated from high school in 1990 Each said the rape, which Huckaby never reported to police, occurred during a difficult period in her life, when her first boyfriend and best friend had both moved away and she was having trouble getting along with her parents.

[dinojen]

Some info on Judge Van Oss... doesn't sound like D. Horowitz cares for him....lol.

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.true-crime/2005-11/msg00016.html


WOW.. this guy makes some weird decisions... time served..:scared:

http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/1348666-Stockton-Calif-police-outraged-after-man-gets-time-served-for-firing-on-station/

Another one of his decisions.

http://cbs13.com/local/stockton.brain.dead.2.823926.html

Hidden Deal Dooms Death Sentence
DA -- now a judge -- had denied striking bargain with key witness

At trial, prosecutor Terrence Van Oss -- now a San Joaquin County, Calif., Superior Court judge -- presented testimony from Hayes' acquaintance, Andrew "A.J." James, who told jurors Hayes had confessed to him and that he drove Hayes to his mother's house after the killing.

The problem, according to Monday's decision, is that Van Oss had made a secret deal with James' attorney to help secure that testimony.

Van Oss agreed to drop pending felony charges against James in exchange for the cooperation. But Van Oss made the deal only with James' attorney, and the attorney and Van Oss agreed not to tell James so that James could truthfully testify that he wasn't getting special treatment from the DA's office.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1110291009696



Wonder if he will recuse himself... I guess not...:wink: Sounds kind of arrogant to me.. JMO

[dinojen]

More on the case Judge Van Oss testified on...

http://www.mail-archive.com/deathpenalty@lists.washlaw.edu/msg02269.html

[Texas48]

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2345658-SoCal+officer+cleared+of+Huckaby+rape+charge-+probe+found&article-SoCal%20officer%20cleared%20of%20Huckaby%20rape%20 charge-%20probe%20found%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&open=&

If she cried wolf on a rape how dare her..this is sick to say you were raped when you were not...this peezzz me off:cursing:
Good morning mom and ALL..thanks for the info mom and everyone that shares all the links and info..This is the reason I posted yesterday I could not believe anything MH told her *friends* untill it was proven to be true...glad you found that tid bit and it is certainly a good piece of info.

[aproudmom]

More on the case Judge Van Oss testified on...

http://www.mail-archive.com/deathpenalty@lists.washlaw.edu/msg02269.html

I knew you would find stuff thanks a bunch

[aproudmom]

Good morning mom and ALL..thanks for the info mom and everyone that shares all the links and info..This is the reason I posted yesterday I could not believe anything MH told her *friends* untill it was proven to be true...glad you found that tid bit and it is certainly a good piece of info.

I had a feeling there would be a lot more to it.for one if her friends did not even know she reported it they are not as close to her as they may have thought..I knew it would not take long for them to get it on the media to see if it was true..now I have seen a lot of comments that some feel maybe they just covered it up and they did not investigate it..well I am not so sure this person loves attention and what other way to get it cry rape but then say don't tell anyone..they were not to good of friends if they did not report it or try to get her to so no one else would be raped..I for one do not think it is true and glad to hear it was cleared up very soon..jmo

Don't get me wrong if she had been I would not condone it even though I hate her..

[dinojen]

I knew you would find stuff thanks a bunch

Can't find much on Testa... :confused: Except for his envolvement in the Herzog case

[aproudmom]

If I read one more person saying she loved kids I am going to scream for one it makes me sick if she did this and all the family and friends say she just loved the kids and was like mother hen..omg I need to barf
just the thought of her around other children is way to much for me..I see they adopted a child had not heard that...jmo

Even as a teenager, she was funny, natural and friendly with children, Fontes said.

Huckaby had two younger brothers, and when she was in high school, her parents adopted a baby girl, Fontes said.

"Melissa was almost like a mother to her," Fontes said. "That's why this is so overwhelming to me. She was so wonderful with kids – absolutely amazing. I feel so completely confused and so devastated about this.
All JMO

[aproudmom]

Can't find much on Testa... :confused: Except for his envolvement in the Herzog case

Well I still give you a huge:thumbup:
thanks a bunch..have you found the ex b/f yet that she said was going to hurt her and grandpa...if not get busy dino:wink:

[aproudmom]

More on the case Judge Van Oss testified on...

http://www.mail-archive.com/deathpenalty@lists.washlaw.edu/msg02269.html

wow ok I see he is been ask to remove himself a couple of times..is this a elected judge??so he was the DA in the 80's case is what I am getting so still not sure why it would be a conflict since he is still on the bench...

Kristine Eagle, a Stockton attorney and former public defender, said
Wednesday she filed a motion asking for a judge other than Van Oss to hear the case of an accused robber she represents. Eagle said she doesn't think Van Oss can rule fairly.

If the California Commission on Judicial Performance, a body that
investigates and addresses judicial misconduct, takes action against Van Oss in the 1980 case, the penalty ranges from a private letter of
admonishment to removal from the bench.

The U.S. 9th Court of Appeals last week tossed out a death-penalty case Van Oss prosecuted in 1981 as a San Joaquin County deputy district attorney. The court found that Van Oss lied about a deal that was struck with a key witness in the case

[koawally]

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2345658-SoCal+officer+cleared+of+Huckaby+rape+charge-+probe+found&article-SoCal%20officer%20cleared%20of%20Huckaby%20rape%20 charge-%20probe%20found%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&open=&

If she cried wolf on a rape how dare her..this is sick to say you were raped when you were not...this peezzz me off:cursing:

I'm not so sure a thorough investigation was done on an alleged rape that was stated to have happened 10 years previous, that may have gone unreported.

That just doesn't sound right at all, that an investigation has been completed. So is it the alleged cop's version VS MH??

[aproudmom]

Some info on Judge Van Oss... doesn't sound like D. Horowitz cares for him....lol.

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.true-crime/2005-11/msg00016.html


WOW.. this guy makes some weird decisions... time served..:scared:

http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/1348666-Stockton-Calif-police-outraged-after-man-gets-time-served-for-firing-on-station/

Another one of his decisions.

http://cbs13.com/local/stockton.brain.dead.2.823926.html

Hidden Deal Dooms Death Sentence
DA -- now a judge -- had denied striking bargain with key witness

At trial, prosecutor Terrence Van Oss -- now a San Joaquin County, Calif., Superior Court judge -- presented testimony from Hayes' acquaintance, Andrew "A.J." James, who told jurors Hayes had confessed to him and that he drove Hayes to his mother's house after the killing.

The problem, according to Monday's decision, is that Van Oss had made a secret deal with James' attorney to help secure that testimony.

Van Oss agreed to drop pending felony charges against James in exchange for the cooperation. But Van Oss made the deal only with James' attorney, and the attorney and Van Oss agreed not to tell James so that James could truthfully testify that he wasn't getting special treatment from the DA's office.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1110291009696



Wonder if he will recuse himself... I guess not...:wink: Sounds kind of arrogant to me.. JMO

:scared:ok what does everyone else think..I am kinda worried about this one..I for one do want to see a fair trial and a conviction to stick..

[dinojen]

wow ok I see he is been ask to remove himself a couple of times..is this a elected judge??so he was the DA in the 80's case is what I am getting so still not sure why it would be a conflict since he is still on the bench...

Kristine Eagle, a Stockton attorney and former public defender, said
Wednesday she filed a motion asking for a judge other than Van Oss to hear the case of an accused robber she represents. Eagle said she doesn't think Van Oss can rule fairly.

If the California Commission on Judicial Performance, a body that
investigates and addresses judicial misconduct, takes action against Van Oss in the 1980 case, the penalty ranges from a private letter of
admonishment to removal from the bench.

The U.S. 9th Court of Appeals last week tossed out a death-penalty case Van Oss prosecuted in 1981 as a San Joaquin County deputy district attorney. The court found that Van Oss lied about a deal that was struck with a key witness in the case

Yeah it's a elected position.. he makes some comment in one of the links about if you don't like his rulings then don't vote for him...:rolleyes: or something to that effect..

[dinojen]

I'm not so sure a thorough investigation was done on an alleged rape that was stated to have happened 10 years previous, that may have gone unreported.

That just doesn't sound right at all, that an investigation has been completed. So is it the alleged cop's version VS MH??


I find it odd that all is kept quiet.. again information given to TPD and DA and not given out.. even though it was 10 years ago...

If it was investigated.. it would of been known to her family I would think and doesn't seem like too many people know about it... just something hinky to me..

Have a feeling there are going to be lots of things that come out in this case that have us all going HUH?

[aproudmom]

I'm not so sure a thorough investigation was done on an alleged rape that was stated to have happened 10 years previous, that may have gone unreported.

That just doesn't sound right at all, that an investigation has been completed. So is it the alleged cop's version VS MH??

That is the only reason I said is it true or not..MH has made it very hard to believe a word she says..but I know they can cover up stuff if they want..just wonder why her so called friends said she never reported it and what a minute were is it she waited 10yrs to report it..I must have misread that. gotta go back and read it again..I thought they meant she did file a report back then not 10yrs later..K well gonna read it again...thanks for clearing that up

[dinojen]

:scared:ok what does everyone else think..I am kinda worried about this one..I for one do want to see a fair trial and a conviction to stick..

Wonder how many other cases Testa and Van Oss were on together... just curious.

:confused:

[aproudmom]

I find it odd that all is kept quiet.. again information given to TPD and DA and not given out.. even though it was 10 years ago...

If it was investigated.. it would of been known to her family I would think and doesn't seem like too many people know about it... just something hinky to me..

Have a feeling there are going to be lots of things that come out in this case that have us all going HUH?

ok am I not reading this right to me it sounds like the report was 10yrs ago.. they make it hard to understand with their wording on this report...

On Friday, three of Huckaby’s friends – none of whom knew each other – said she told them that a policeman raped her when she was 18, just out of high school.

Bruce confirmed that there was a report and an investigation, but provided no details

Was is my keyword he did not say a investigation is going on into these claims..:confused:

[dinojen]

ok am I not reading this right to me it sounds like the report was 10yrs ago.. they make it hard to understand with their wording on this report...

On Friday, three of Huckaby’s friends – none of whom knew each other – said she told them that a policeman raped her when she was 18, just out of high school.

Bruce confirmed that there was a report and an investigation, but provided no details

Was is my keyword he did not say a investigation is going on into these claims..:confused:

I took it as being investigated supposedly 10 years ago also... and yes the wording did make it confusing. IMO

[koawally]

I took it as being investigated supposedly 10 years ago also... and yes the wording did make it confusing. IMO

You know dino...this is where these cases twist and turn and confuse us all.

MH is labelled a monster. The charges don't get any more bizarre than what is alleged to have happened to lil Sandra.

The cops do a recent investigation on what MH stated to several friends. Within 48 hrs the police investigation is completed and we are to believe MH LIED about this alleged rape...just not buying their report...that it didn't happen. Basically what did they investigate questioning of an officer?? Thats it, what else do they have to go on?

Not that it makes any difference to the charges MH faces BUT...I sure hope their investigation into what happened to lil Sandra was more thorough...than this type of keystone cope mentality.

[koawally]

So which is it her friends said it was never reported but then today I read it had been reported..my next question is she is 28 right? I graduated in 90 and sure wish I could say I was still in my 20's she would be in her 30's if she graduated in 90.:confused:



According to all three friends, Melissa Huckaby was 18 at the time and living with her parents in La Habra, Calif. The friends, who asked that their names be withheld, did not know each other. But each told the same story that Huckaby was date raped by a police officer shortly after she graduated from high school in 1990 Each said the rape, which Huckaby never reported to police, occurred during a difficult period in her life, when her first boyfriend and best friend had both moved away and she was having trouble getting along with her parents.


1999 Huckaby graduated from Brea-Olinda High School

[meadowlark]

So which is it her friends said it was never reported but then today I read it had been reported..my next question is she is 28 right? I graduated in 90 and sure wish I could say I was still in my 20's she would be in her 30's if she graduated in 90.:confused:



According to all three friends, Melissa Huckaby was 18 at the time and living with her parents in La Habra, Calif. The friends, who asked that their names be withheld, did not know each other. But each told the same story that Huckaby was date raped by a police officer shortly after she graduated from high school in 1990 Each said the rape, which Huckaby never reported to police, occurred during a difficult period in her life, when her first boyfriend and best friend had both moved away and she was having trouble getting along with her parents.


they say she did not report it, but ONE was reported as they cleared him, so being the dates of graduation and age are not matching up to the ONE she told friends about which they said she never reported, is NOT THE SAME ONE as the one reported.

It's possible these are two different "rapes" ? So is this a habit of hers? To yell "rape" or abuse by boyfriends? It could be. I surely would not want to accuse her of making up stuff if these things really happened because rape is traumatic and if someone does something like this to you, they should be held responsible. On the other hand, if the officer was cleared, and "IF" there is "another" rape she told friends about that she did NOT report, then perhaps she just made them up?

[meadowlark]

1999 Huckaby graduated from Brea-Olinda High School

okay then that makes a difference in the age and the time of the rape, so guess it is the same rape.

thanks for correcting the dates

[aproudmom]

I took it as being investigated supposedly 10 years ago also... and yes the wording did make it confusing. IMO

sorry kids made me give up the computer..I hate sharing..anyway I agree the wording of it is very confusing. I do hope it was turned in 10yrs ago if in fact it happened...Like I said I don't care if I can not bare the sight of her no one should ever be forced or raped..jmo

[aproudmom]

they say she did not report it, but ONE was reported as they cleared him, so being the dates of graduation and age are not matching up to the ONE she told friends about which they said she never reported, is NOT THE SAME ONE as the one reported.

It's possible these are two different "rapes" ? So is this a habit of hers? To yell "rape" or abuse by boyfriends? It could be. I surely would not want to accuse her of making up stuff if these things really happened because rape is traumatic and if someone does something like this to you, they should be held responsible. On the other hand, if the officer was cleared, and "IF" there is "another" rape she told friends about that she did NOT report, then perhaps she just made them up?

wow wait a minute so there was 2 cops? OK guess I am not reading the same thing then..they said when she got out of school and was 18 did not even know if her parents knew about it..I am not sure if maybe the press did not get the dated wrong..maybe they should have said in the 90's instead of 90...and I am not saying she is making it up I would pray no one would but it does happen a lot...ok well this whole thing is confusing surely they will look into it since all these people are coming forward now after a child is dead....

[aproudmom]

1999 Huckaby graduated from Brea-Olinda High School

thanks I am still not seeing 2 cops raping her so I am thinking the press did not make it clear she was raped in th 90's and not 1990. I just find it odd they say a cop and there would be 2 if this is not the one that was reported..maybe wrong but until I read she was raped 2 times I am just blaming the dates on the media since they can get things wrong alot....:confused:

[meadowlark]

wow wait a minute so there was 2 cops? OK guess I am not reading the same thing then..they said when she got out of school and was 18 did not even know if her parents knew about it..I am not sure if maybe the press did not get the dated wrong..maybe they should have said in the 90's instead of 90...and I am not saying she is making it up I would pray no one would but it does happen a lot...ok well this whole thing is confusing surely they will look into it since all these people are coming forward now after a child is dead....


no no no LOL not two cops, I had thought IF it were 1990 and the age was not matching to the report with the cop, then there might have been ANOTHER rape at a different date, but now that the date is cleared up that she graduated in 1999 rather than in 1990, now the age matches the report date of the cop, so there probably is NOT anoter rape...

gee, hope I did not totally confuse everyone. the date of graduation was OFF making her older than she was suppose to be so it was not adding up that this could be a rape at age 18 and be she graduated in 1990...

best to just ignore all my post on this subject. dates being off made it not possible for this cop rape to be when she graduated...but clearing up the date of graduation made it fit right.

[doradoll]

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2345658-SoCal+officer+cleared+of+Huckaby+rape+charge-+probe+found&article-SoCal%20officer%20cleared%20of%20Huckaby%20rape%20 charge-%20probe%20found%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&open=&

If she cried wolf on a rape how dare her..this is sick to say you were raped when you were not...this peezzz me off:cursing:

Date rape accusation from 10 years ago?? Not to defend a child killer, but how hard do you think this is to prove? I have been there myself and chose not to report it. What is there to say, unless you suffered injury? I went willingly with this guy, made out with him and then he raped me? I think many times this would be hard to prove, let alone with a cop. He said, she said.

[aproudmom]

I think they just did not report the date right I do not think there was 2cops who did this to her..jmo..She sure had a lot of trouble with men restraining orders a ex b/f who has a record..the allegations against her ex husband.

http://news.aol.com/article/johnny-huckaby-speaks-out/434278

A woman accused of sexually assaulting and killing an 8-year-old California girl separately told three of her friends that she had been raped herself, the Tracy Press reported. According to all three friends, Melissa Huckaby was 18 at the time and living with her parents in La Habra, Calif. The friends, who asked that their names be withheld, did not know each other. But each told the same story that Huckaby was date raped by a police officer shortly after she graduated from high school in 1990,
Each said the rape, which Huckaby never reported to police, occurred during a difficult period in her life, when her first boyfriend and best friend had both moved away and she was having trouble getting along with her parents.



SoCal officer cleared of Huckaby rape charge, probe found

On Friday, three of Huckaby’s friends – none of whom knew each other – said she told them that a policeman raped her when she was 18, just out of high school.

Bruce confirmed that there was a report and an investigation, but provided no details and referred all calls to Tracy police.

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2345658-SoCal+officer+cleared+of+Huckaby+rape+charge-+probe+found&article-SoCal%20officer%20cleared%20of%20Huckaby%20rape%20 charge-%20probe%20found%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&


In 2002, she won a restraining order against a boyfriend who had an extensive criminal record and a restraining order from a previous marriage, according to San Joaquin County court records

[lunchlady]

I was trying to remember something I read a long time ago, that the reason some pedophiles are attracted to children is that still feel like children in many ways, and still have a childish perspective on things. This means that they might be very in tune with children and interact with them successfully, but their adult hormone system and bodies create sexual tension which then sometimes gets acted on.

Just recently there was something like this is in the news, that there is something immature, in the sense of physical development, about pedophile brains, but I don't remember how that research was being interpreted.

I find this interesting because it means that pedophiles could be potentially screened to evaluate their likelihood to reoffend. It could possibly even be used to see who should be allowed to have interactions with children, but that might be very tricky.

[aproudmom]

Date rape accusation from 10 years ago?? Not to defend a child killer, but how hard do you think this is to prove? I have been there myself and chose not to report it. What is there to say, unless you suffered injury? I went willingly with this guy, made out with him and then he raped me? I think many times this would be hard to prove, let alone with a cop. He said, she said.

Not sure what your saying..just so you know I have also lived it and was the victim over and over and over,..so do not get me wrong NO ONE SHOULD BE RAPED EVERY...did I say anyone deserves to be raped??no I did not..but this is not about me and what I have lived through it is about a child who is dead...so excuse me if I offended anyone....

[aproudmom]

no no no LOL not two cops, I had thought IF it were 1990 and the age was not matching to the report with the cop, then there might have been ANOTHER rape at a different date, but now that the date is cleared up that she graduated in 1999 rather than in 1990, now the age matches the report date of the cop, so there probably is NOT anoter rape...

gee, hope I did not totally confuse everyone. the date of graduation was OFF making her older than she was suppose to be so it was not adding up that this could be a rape at age 18 and be she graduated in 1990...

best to just ignore all my post on this subject. dates being off made it not possible for this cop rape to be when she graduated...but clearing up the date of graduation made it fit right.

thanks meadow not even bringing it up again..sorry I did not see what you were saying..

Have a great day

[royals02]

IF the date rape story is true...thats a terrible thing...
HOWEVER....no way no how does it serve as a basis for forgiving what she did to Sandra!!!!!!
I dont know if you guys realize this...but EVERYONE has a story...some sadder then others....but life goes on and you move ahead from the "bad" things in your life.
We can talk about the "hard" life that MH had till we are all blue in the face...but the facts are she murdered an innocent little girl...(never mind the other charges). SHE MURDERED SANDRA period!!!!!

[titanfan217]

I am just visiting this theory for a moment here. I was considering how MH's entire family seems to surround their religious beliefs and the church that they belong to. They are by appearance to me, if only me, is rather passive and seemingly dismissive when it comes to MH.

MH has a history of issues that were left unchecked, including but not limited to, her accusing an officer of the law of committing a rape against her. She also had committed recent criminal acts (prior to Sandra's disappearance, rape and murder.) She was left without child support for her Daughter etc...
Her life was spiraling downward and her acts against Sandra, rape and murder, could very possibly have been the ultimate act of defiance against her life, her own family and the God that she believes in. It was mentioned that MH had both threatened and attempted suicide.

It is possible that to MH, Sandra's rape and death could have been selfishly, insanely and horrifically sacraficial. Am I making sense here?


You've touched on a pet peeve of mine -- not against you.


I've met too many people that are RELIGIOUS but have no clue what it means to be a Christian. I realize these are terms & others may have different definitions. The one taught to me is that a Christian is Christ like.

In short I've met too many (one is too many for me) that toot that they are Christians but will stab you in the back, judge you as if they are God, and tell you if you don't believe as they do you ain't gonna to heaven. One preacher once told me that he knows of 8 different groups saying the same thing, so is 7 of them wrong.

I don't know if MH are Christian or religous. I did have a problem seeing her dad laughing Easter Sunday on a video/interview.

[KittyMom]

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2345658-SoCal+officer+cleared+of+Huckaby+rape+charge-+probe+found&article-SoCal%20officer%20cleared%20of%20Huckaby%20rape%20 charge-%20probe%20found%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

SoCal officer cleared of Huckaby rape charge, probe found

I need to know when she told the friends about the incident & whether she was ever examined by a doc.

[CC I See]

If I read one more person saying she loved kids I am going to scream for one it makes me sick if she did this and all the family and friends say she just loved the kids and was like mother hen..omg I need to barf
just the thought of her around other children is way to much for me..I see they adopted a child had not heard that...jmo

Even as a teenager, she was funny, natural and friendly with children, Fontes said.

Huckaby had two younger brothers, and when she was in high school, her parents adopted a baby girl, Fontes said.

"Melissa was almost like a mother to her," Fontes said. "That's why this is so overwhelming to me. She was so wonderful with kids – absolutely amazing. I feel so completely confused and so devastated about this.
All JMO

This is where it gets difficult, the fact that she loved kids and thus the betrayal. Sexual offenders, pedophiles always find a way to be around children to satisfy their personal needs. But a MOM being around kids is natural and no one suspects the true reason she wants access to kids.

Now, are we to suspect everyone who works with and cares for children when they say they love kids? Where is the red flags that had to be waved early in this case, were they overlooked? Or were there ever any and if not, that is the scary part of this case, no warning and now no trust for those dedicated people who work with children. Not only has she taken a life of an innocent child but she has taken away our trust of others who care for children.

[royals02]

Yes we have honorable scars. The defendant's history is always looked at in criminal cases but I just hate it that it always becomes all about them.

When I heard her Father say she had been depressed from divorce, can't find a job I thought well get in line honey, that's life. It all has no bearing on the hideous crime she's accused of committing. But I think they're going to go with an insanity defense. Maybe that's all they have, especially if the evidence against her is overwhelming which it may well be.

ETA: There's a link in the links thread that says the accusations of rape against the law enforcement officer was investigated and the man was cleared. She was just lying about it.

OH NO....PLEASE DONT SAY AN INSANITY DEFENSE....I am so sick of people who commit crimes and say they "just snapped" at the moment they perpetrated some crime and now are normal again. Makes me sick!!!
And how does MH claim insanity if she was "sane" enough to try and cover up what she had done by stuffing poor little Sandra in a suitcase and into an irrigation pond....
If that's the story the defense is gonna try and peddle to a jury I dont think it will work. It just means a trial with forensic psychiatrists saying how her actions and her life made her do the horrible things she did

[tv4me]

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/huckaby-school-melissa-2368620-finn-family
She was very nice ... very cordial," said Evelyn Lloyd, her housemate who lived at the house for about 12 years. "Every girl who ended up in (that) house had a story. She (Huckaby) really didn't have a story. She was very secretive."

At first, Lloyd said she "never detected any depression or craziness or any violent behavior."

But then, in 2007, two fires were set at the house just eight days apart. Lloyd was arrested in the first fire on July 20, but the case against her was dismissed. Lloyd said Huckaby might have set her up.

Huckaby and her daughter were at the house when the second fire broke out, on July 28, said La Palma Police Chief Edward Ethell. Everyone who lived at the house, including Huckaby, was questioned about the fire.

Huckaby was considered a "person of interest," but she was not arrested, Ethell said. La Palma police officers are sharing information about the fire case with the Tracy Police Department and the investigation is ongoing, Ethell said.
Cypress police also are cooperating with the Tracy Police Department, said Sgt. Tom Bruce, but he declined to say if officers provided information about any specific incidents.


Sounds to me like she could plea insanity...what with arson and all. I think she must have something in her personality in which she has to be the center of attention ALL.THE.TIME.

It won't surprise me if it turns out that Sandra died from a drug overdose. (Hence, Huckaby's claim it was an accident) Perhaps she drugged and then raped Sandra with the hopes that she could later say she "saved" Sandra from a rapist and become the big hero in peoples' eyes. Everything she seems to do and say screams to me, "HEY EVERYBODY LOOK AT ME!" Does that excuse her from this horrid crime...NO WAY. Lock her in the mental ward for life. She's too dangerous to be out in regular society.

[royals02]

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/huckaby-school-melissa-2368620-finn-family



Sounds to me like she could plea insanity...what with arson and all. I think she must have something in her personality in which she has to be the center of attention ALL.THE.TIME.

It won't surprise me if it turns out that Sandra died from a drug overdose. (Hence, Huckaby's claim it was an accident) Perhaps she drugged and then raped Sandra with the hopes that she could later say she "saved" Sandra from a rapist and become the big hero in peoples' eyes. Everything she seems to do and say screams to me, "HEY EVERYBODY LOOK AT ME!" Does that excuse her from this horrid crime...NO WAY. Lock her in the mental ward for life. She's too dangerous to be out in regular society.

Bolding mine.....hmmmmmmm certainly sounds like the Anthony family to me....maybe they need to be locked away too........grrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Texas48]

You've touched on a pet peeve of mine -- not against you.


I've met too many people that are RELIGIOUS but have no clue what it means to be a Christian. I realize these are terms & others may have different definitions. The one taught to me is that a Christian is Christ like.

In short I've met too many (one is too many for me) that toot that they are Christians but will stab you in the back, judge you as if they are God, and tell you if you don't believe as they do you ain't gonna to heaven. One preacher once told me that he knows of 8 different groups saying the same thing, so is 7 of them wrong.

I don't know if MH are Christian or religous. I did have a problem seeing her dad laughing Easter Sunday on a video/interview.
Excellent post and excellent thoughts titan..

[*Spike*]

IMO i dont think Melissa did anything sexual to Sandra. i think it was someone else. JMO

[MoonHarvest]

I tend to think that Melissa did not do anything sexual to Sandra, too.

[TaraCrazyHair]

I tend to agree about the sexual part -- if anything, she did something to Sandra (drugging, etc ..) and has an after thought, maybe used something to make it look like a rape case throwing suspicion off her

(Part of me still thinks there may be somebody else involved but i simply am not sure)

Has anything been said about how Melissa got the suitcase into the middle of the pond?

[meadowlark]

I can't imagine someone tossing the suitcase in the pond and thinking it would not surface. How did they even know it was going to sink?

[BitterSweet]

I tend to think that Melissa did not do anything sexual to Sandra, too.

Wow.. interested to learn why you think law enforcement is wrong with the investigation?
BitterSweet

[BitterSweet]

Or maybe it was a bicycle fall, or a monkey bars fall that day or the day before. Bruising is much more pronounced after death than before death.

I don't think Melissa did anything sexual to Sandra, either. I think it was a bike bar.

Correct me if i am mistaken.. monkey bars can show signs of (vaginal) internal injury?
BitterSweet

[aproudmom]

I am in total shock that some feel they are out to get this person for one you have not seen the autopsy or her statements..all I have left to say is IF this WAS a MAN would we even be talking about her past her religion her mothering skills..????????NO WE WOULD NOT..I am in aw over some saying you do not think she raped Sandra..How do you know that??because so far I have seen no proof she was not...we seem to let religious people, teachers, doctors I can go on and one get by with this stuff for years because we are suppose to be able to trust them..well HELLO people they just arrested a male teacher in Tracy and I read a Doctor not sure were it was and also a pastor that was molesting children..so guess since they are men we don't care if maybe they had problems in their past....

I for one thinks she is a sick attention getting Monster who cries --- and abuse when it works for her or she needs some attention..until I see proof otherwise..I will stick to what I do know..she is a child killer...who was sane and seems like some want to start to make excuses for her so of course her family and friends are going to come out of the wood work saying she was this wonderful person until this happened or she divorced or got no child supprt could not find a jod shall I go on..well let me tell you I have lived everything she has and never touched a child not even my own..she is a sick evil person..and her family and Friend's are to blame also for not helping her if they knew all this was going on and they sat by and allowed her to spiral down as they put it..funny she told them 3 weeks ago she was doing very good very very good..so guess she lied about that also...all this is JMO

Sorry if this offends anyone but for one unless you have walked in those shoes you have no idea this gives no one a reason to kill a child just because she is a women...and many have lived through all of the same plus more and instead of killing they get help and go on to help others who have been there...I do know cause I volunteer..and was a victim but this is not about me or even her it is about a happy skipping 8yr old who was murdered and stuffed in a luggage bag and thrown in cow manure that is who I am here for not to talk about MLH lies and misfortunes..she could have ask for help actually she was getting help...paid for by who the taxpayers I am sure..all of this is JMO.you have yours and I have mine..and no one knows the evidence or what she told them that night..so I will wait and see what they have and go from there..but until then this is the only opinion I have...

fall off the monkey bars OK well just to help you out maybe she was riding her bike or a horse and that is the reason for the vaginal trauma..I don't think so but just thought I would give you a few other things to throw in there..or perhaps some want to say her family did this to her or someone else.:rolleyes:

[aproudmom]

Correct me if i am mistaken.. monkey bars can show signs of (vaginal) internal injury?
BitterSweet

I for one would think she would have been hurting and told someone if this is what happened...so I do not think so..I fell on a bicycle bar when I was younger and it hurt and I told my parents but there was no vaginal trauma..I also feel climbing a tree my parents took me to be checked because of the pain but there was no trauma..I was kicked 20 times by a abusive man and it hurt but no vaginal trauma...I do not think this is some witch hunt to get poor MLH...all jmo

[aproudmom]

I tend to agree about the sexual part -- if anything, she did something to Sandra (drugging, etc ..) and has an after thought, maybe used something to make it look like a rape case throwing suspicion off her

(Part of me still thinks there may be somebody else involved but i simply am not sure)

Has anything been said about how Melissa got the suitcase into the middle of the pond?

no I do not think it has been stated how she did it but she even said she had been there before..I for one do not have a pond or I may go see if It would float until it was filled up with water and the weight of a 45 pound child...minus the child I would just try weights to see...this is not some skinny meeny and adrenaline I have seen people move cars...jmo

[Deb7]

OH NO....PLEASE DONT SAY AN INSANITY DEFENSE....I am so sick of people who commit crimes and say they "just snapped" at the moment they perpetrated some crime and now are normal again. Makes me sick!!!
And how does MH claim insanity if she was "sane" enough to try and cover up what she had done by stuffing poor little Sandra in a suitcase and into an irrigation pond....
If that's the story the defense is gonna try and peddle to a jury I dont think it will work. It just means a trial with forensic psychiatrists saying how her actions and her life made her do the horrible things she did


Sane people don't do stuff like this. This whole crime was insane and the person who committed it is insane as well. We, as sane people, should just realize that you have to be a couple crayons short of a box in order to do stuff like this. She can call herself insane all she wants, but because she is insane is the reason WHY she should be locked up.
LWOP or DP her, either way works for me. :mad:
Anyway, JMO.